February 24, 2017 
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February 24, 2017 [00:00:13] <_Dario_> hi. To update the system, you can type in Terminal:[00:00:17] <_Dario_> pkgman full-sync[00:00:30] <_Dario_> and then, restart the system.[00:00:45] <BrunoSpr> Binary I found here: https://www.freelists.org/post/haiku-development/SoftwareUpdater-DR1-testers-requested[00:00:52] *** gouchi <gouchi!~gouchi@ivr94-8-88-162-27-162.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:01:29] <BrunoSpr> Yes I know... using pkgman is the actual way to update...[00:02:06] <BrunoSpr> the softwareUpdater is a GUI doing almost the same[00:02:14] <_Dario_> oh, I get it. You are trying to test the SoftwareUpdater app; not updating the system :-)[00:02:44] <BrunoSpr> It will update the system too...!?[00:02:55] <_Dario_> I guess yes[00:03:04] <BrunoSpr> yes I test the SoftwareUpdater...[00:03:05] <_Dario_> I didn't tried the app yet[00:03:45] <BrunoSpr> But I cannot try it anymore since it has finished its job... :-)[00:04:05] <_Dario_> :-)[00:04:24] <_Dario_> wait to tomorrow to get the new nightly[00:04:27] <BrunoSpr> Just wondering where to store it?[00:04:36] <BrunoSpr> yes I will[00:04:48] *** fritzvd_ <fritzvd_!uid44866@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rijonvmzbfobzafi> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[00:04:58] <BrunoSpr> maybe then I can choose the older hrev then?![00:05:43] <_Dario_> usually, to choose the older hrev, push the spacebar just at the start of booting process[00:06:11] <_Dario_> in the boot menu, you can choose to boot in an older revision[00:06:29] <BrunoSpr> yes that way I know... do you think it has changed too?[00:06:43] <_Dario_> I guess no[00:06:56] <BrunoSpr> but you have to choose it every time then..[00:07:09] <BrunoSpr> i just try[00:07:12] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8]: i've been blurred!)[00:07:33] *** Maya-sama is now known as hackkitten[00:08:18] *** daniele_athome <daniele_athome!~daniele_a@net-2-38-124-5.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)[00:09:53] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #haiku[00:10:05] <BrunoSpr> ah ok nothing changed so far there[00:10:27] <BrunoSpr> I try later then...[00:13:04] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[00:13:06] *** return0e_ <return0e_!~return0e@178-78-68-13.static.kc.net.uk> has joined #haiku[00:14:36] <_Dario_> by default, you boot to the latest hrev available[00:16:40] <tojoko> he's dead, jim![00:17:31] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #haiku[00:21:47] <tojoko> He's back, _Dario_ ! ;-)[00:25:23] <_Dario_> :-D[00:25:50] <_Dario_> I said, by default, Haiku boot to the latest hrev available[00:25:59] <_Dario_> (thanks tojoko) :-)[00:33:58] <BrunoSpr> just testing around...[00:34:25] <BrunoSpr> media add on server is crashing again right after boot...[00:34:50] <BrunoSpr> restart wont work...[00:36:24] <BrunoSpr> restarting the Media server....[00:36:40] *** nighty <nighty!~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp> has quit IRC (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke)[00:44:42] *** jua_ <jua_!~jua@xdsl-89-0-250-124.netcologne.de> has quit IRC (Quit: bye)[00:48:34] <HAIKU-irker458> haiku.master: kallisti5 * hrev50972 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=85f64f90499d+%5Ee4e6315ff434[00:48:35] <HAIKU-irker458> 85f64f90499d: sysinfo: Refactor CPU feature flag display[00:51:52] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8]: vanished!)[00:53:01] *** arfonzo <arfonzo!~arfonzo@2a03:b0c0:1:a1::54f:1001> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[00:54:16] *** arfonzo <arfonzo!~arfonzo@2a03:b0c0:1:a1::54f:1001> has joined #haiku[00:57:27] *** SteveH2013 <SteveH2013!~vision@c-24-129-87-240.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has joined #haiku[01:01:25] *** Guma <Guma!~quassel@c-73-211-254-124.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has joined #haiku[01:02:01] *** Guma <Guma!~quassel@c-73-211-254-124.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[01:02:43] *** Guma <Guma!~quassel@c-73-211-254-124.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has joined #haiku[01:07:30] *** Guma <Guma!~quassel@c-73-211-254-124.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:09:34] *** AndrewZ <AndrewZ!6202ca5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.2.202.90> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[01:12:30] *** _Dario_ <_Dario_!dario@181.46.225.143> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[01:17:40] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@c-76-113-130-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has joined #haiku[01:20:29] <HAIKU-Buildbot> build #3337 of haiku-repository-x86_gcc2_hybrid is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.haiku-os.org/builders/haiku-repository-x86_gcc2_hybrid/builds/3337[01:21:20] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@c-76-113-130-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[01:21:57] <HAIKU-Buildbot> build #3477 of haiku-master-x86_64 is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.haiku-os.org/builders/haiku-master-x86_64/builds/3477[01:23:07] *** return0e_ <return0e_!~return0e@178-78-68-13.static.kc.net.uk> has quit IRC ()[01:28:48] *** xemdetia <xemdetia!xemdetia@nat/ibm/x-orvbohbpopsnsyvt> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[01:38:35] *** waddlesplash <waddlesplash!uid58358@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-srksohwvfnzkthpx> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[01:43:51] *** SteveH2013 <SteveH2013!~vision@c-24-129-87-240.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8]: i've been blurred!)[01:48:05] *** compyx <compyx!~compyx@D4CCAD8F.cm-2.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Quit: I need sleep, or I'm drunk, or both)[01:59:34] <tsundoku> my x86_64 hrev50971 doesn't have any extended attributes set up for audio files. is that expected?[01:59:55] <krbtgt|> to clarify: he has no icons associated with audio/* nor the attributes[02:00:08] <krbtgt|> or descriptions, nothing fancy[02:00:26] <krbtgt|> http://i.imgur.com/nT8Wyhf.png like, this is mine for reference[02:01:23] <krbtgt|> he has no icon, descr, or attributes[02:07:24] *** kaiser <kaiser!uid203960@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qjmicjlqnrebwyic> has joined #haiku[02:24:48] *** nighty <nighty!~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp> has joined #haiku[02:48:31] *** mmu_man <mmu_man!~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[02:50:21] *** cdesai <cdesai!~cd@cyanogenmod/maintainer/cdesai> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[02:50:45] *** cdesai <cdesai!~cd@cyanogenmod/maintainer/cdesai> has joined #haiku[03:00:03] *** Diver <Diver!~Adium@broadband-46-242-10-123.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[03:00:37] *** _Dario_ <_Dario_!dario@181.46.220.144> has joined #haiku[03:56:46] *** xemdetia <xemdetia!~xemdetia@pool-173-76-168-129.bstnma.fios.verizon.net> has joined #haiku[04:24:54] *** xemdetia <xemdetia!~xemdetia@pool-173-76-168-129.bstnma.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[04:27:23] *** _Dario_ <_Dario_!dario@181.46.220.144> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8]: i've been blurred!)[05:04:41] *** Barrett <Barrett!~barrett@unaffiliated/barrett> has quit IRC (Quit: Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?)[06:46:41] *** mattlacey <mattlacey!~mattlacey@59-100-30-52.mel.static-ipl.aapt.com.au> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[06:47:13] *** mattlacey <mattlacey!~mattlacey@59-100-30-52.mel.static-ipl.aapt.com.au> has joined #haiku[06:49:09] *** OmniMancer <OmniMancer!~Paul@101.100.137.239> has joined #haiku[07:05:27] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[07:23:46] <Not-d513> [haiku/website] waddlesplash pushed 1 commit to master [+4/-0/±1] https://github.com/haiku/website/compare/2ff6d7e3079a...ea93bd747e4f[07:23:48] <Not-d513> [haiku/website] kainjow ea93bd7 - Add files from Trac #5477 (#38)[07:38:27] *** johndrinkwater <johndrinkwater!~beta@steamdb/johndrinkwater.name> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[07:40:22] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has joined #haiku[07:43:50] *** johndrinkwater <johndrinkwater!~beta@steamdb/johndrinkwater.name> has joined #haiku[07:45:36] *** korli <korli!c299d9e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.153.217.230> has joined #haiku[07:49:42] *** AD_MOS <AD_MOS!~JohnN@bcdf1df9.skybroadband.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[07:51:32] *** humdinger <humdinger!~humdinger@x5d8577e6.dyn.telefonica.de> has joined #haiku[07:51:32] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o humdinger[07:54:07] *** daniele_athome <daniele_athome!~daniele_a@net-2-38-124-5.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined #haiku[08:03:10] <korli> PulkoMandy: should we add JDLL 2017 to the events list?[08:07:20] <humdinger> Morning![08:08:12] <humdinger> Any ideas how I could trigger a conflict when updating? I wanna try out Brian's SoftwareUpdater.[08:08:26] <humdinger> I never had those on a system update...[08:08:38] <humdinger> only when installing broken packages.[08:18:23] *** kaiser <kaiser!uid203960@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qjmicjlqnrebwyic> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[08:24:44] *** humdinger <humdinger!~humdinger@x5d8577e6.dyn.telefonica.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8pre9]: Oi, with the poodles already!)[08:31:01] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[08:41:49] *** Diver <Diver!~Adium@broadband-46-242-10-180.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #haiku[08:42:28] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has joined #haiku[08:46:23] <korli> humdinger: that would only happen[08:48:03] *** axeld <axeld!~Thunderbi@dyndsl-188-118-158-026.ewe-ip-backbone.de> has joined #haiku[08:48:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o axeld[08:48:29] <korli> humdinger: that would only happen if maybe the haiku package requires a new package conflicting with another[08:48:41] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[08:51:24] <korli> it happened on icu updates for instance, when no compat package (icu56) was added to fill the gap[08:59:18] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has joined #haiku[09:05:20] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:13:30] <stargater> moin[09:15:09] <stargater> will haiku boot on the AMD Ryzen cpu?[09:17:08] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has joined #haiku[09:20:17] <korli> will Haiku boot on the <insert your favorite CPU>, who knows?[09:21:10] <stargater> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Zen-Ryzen17h-Patches[09:21:32] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:22:24] *** tojoko <tojoko!~tonio@p5B150A3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[09:23:35] *** stippi <stippi!~Thunderbi@p4FD7464F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #haiku[09:23:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[09:25:10] <stargater> how can add inti haiku a new x86 cpu modell?[09:29:31] *** DKnoto <DKnoto!~DKnoto_W3@77.79.212.94> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[09:29:48] *** [Beta] <[Beta]!~beta@steamdb/johndrinkwater.name> has joined #haiku[09:31:20] *** johndrinkwater <johndrinkwater!~beta@steamdb/johndrinkwater.name> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[09:35:06] *** GeneralDuke <GeneralDuke!~Thunderbi@pdi29.internetdsl.tpnet.pl> has joined #haiku[09:48:16] <axeld> stargater: it should usually just work, but we'll see :-)[09:53:59] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has joined #haiku[09:59:43] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[10:00:39] *** leszek <leszek!~leszek@p2003005B443F3D00022314FFFEAF6410.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #haiku[10:03:39] <leszek> hi[10:05:17] *** knarfy <knarfy!~knarf@143.252.82.79.rev.sfr.net> has joined #haiku[10:11:24] *** [JJ]Albert_ is now known as [JJ]Albert[10:17:00] *** mmu_man <mmu_man!~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net> has joined #haiku[10:30:08] *** humdinger <humdinger!~humdinger@x5d8577e6.dyn.telefonica.de> has joined #haiku[10:30:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o humdinger[10:32:13] <humdinger> thanks korli. If you find an easy to replicate example, let me know so I can test it.[10:38:08] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has joined #haiku[10:43:41] *** Sir_Designer <Sir_Designer!~Sir_Desig@wikipedia/mareklug> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[11:08:35] *** fritzvd_ <fritzvd_!uid44866@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ulymvuraphqlygzl> has joined #haiku[11:11:02] *** rosros2000 <rosros2000!~rosros200@host3-192-static.15-188-b.business.telecomitalia.it> has joined #haiku[11:16:48] *** Ptrus <Ptrus!vision@68.118.40.186> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:17:17] *** Ptrus <Ptrus!vision@68.118.40.186> has joined #haiku[11:18:05] *** humdinger <humdinger!~humdinger@x5d8577e6.dyn.telefonica.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8pre9]: Oi, with the poodles already!)[11:35:29] <stargater> axeld: thx :-)[11:38:10] *** rosros2000 <rosros2000!~rosros200@host3-192-static.15-188-b.business.telecomitalia.it> has left #haiku ("No boundaries on the 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Leaving.)[14:12:44] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@150.237.94.36> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[14:14:48] *** fritzvd_ <fritzvd_!uid44866@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ulymvuraphqlygzl> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[14:17:51] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@150.237.94.36> has joined #haiku[14:26:19] *** leszek <leszek!~leszek@p2003005B443F3D00022314FFFEAF6410.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)[14:28:50] *** leszek <leszek!~leszek@p2003005B443F3D00022314FFFEAF6410.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #haiku[14:42:47] *** kaiser <kaiser!uid203960@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-admzfrbiscohtcai> has joined #haiku[14:43:23] *** tojoko <tojoko!~tonio@p5B150A3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #haiku[14:48:12] *** tojoko <tojoko!~tonio@p5B150A3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[15:02:48] *** stippi <stippi!~Thunderbi@p4FD7464F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: stippi)[15:04:14] *** tojoko <tojoko!~tonio@p5B150A3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #haiku[15:07:06] *** HaikuUser2 <HaikuUser2!~vision@home.lepesant.com> has joined #haiku[15:07:10] *** HaikuUser2 is now known as mhug[15:13:10] *** Dane__ <Dane__!~vision@253.206-40-118.netnet.net> has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host)[15:19:46] *** Muzer <Muzer!~muzer@cpc96772-rdng27-2-0-cust294.15-3.cable.virginm.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[15:24:48] *** korli <korli!c299d9e6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.153.217.230> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[15:26:11] *** pixdamix <pixdamix!~pix@unaffiliated/pixdamix> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)[15:26:39] *** pixdamix <pixdamix!~pix@unaffiliated/pixdamix> has joined #haiku[15:26:55] *** pixdamix <pixdamix!~pix@unaffiliated/pixdamix> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[15:28:20] *** pixdamix <pixdamix!~pix@unaffiliated/pixdamix> has joined #haiku[15:28:42] *** JohnX <JohnX!john@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe50:3ac4> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:30:06] *** SteveH2013 <SteveH2013!~vision@c-24-129-87-240.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has joined #haiku[15:30:12] *** JohnX <JohnX!john@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fe50:3ac4> has joined #haiku[15:35:17] *** Barrett <Barrett!~barrett@unaffiliated/barrett> has joined #haiku[15:35:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Barrett[15:36:08] *** rennj_ <rennj_!~rennj@host-69-146-167-35.static.bresnan.net> has joined #haiku[15:37:13] *** Muzer <Muzer!~muzer@cpc96772-rdng27-2-0-cust294.15-3.cable.virginm.net> has joined #haiku[15:37:32] <SteveH2013> Are all 64 bit images of Haiku now done by hand or is there a server build of at least the latest nightly image available?[15:38:37] *** rennj <rennj!~rennj@host-69-146-167-35.static.bresnan.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[15:38:50] <krbtgt|> the nightly site has the amd64 builds there too[15:41:23] *** rennj_ <rennj_!~rennj@host-69-146-167-35.static.bresnan.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[15:41:41] <SteveH2013> Ah, got it...tricky[15:42:56] <krbtgt|> i'll warn you right now in that i haven't tried amd64 haiku builds of mono, and that probably needs some minor surgery... maybe[15:43:12] * krbtgt| has to run Attraction after all[15:44:28] *** xemdetia <xemdetia!xemdetia@nat/ibm/x-sueynergjykcazgl> has joined #haiku[15:45:53] <SteveH2013> Oh, in 20 yrs we'll all be laughing why 32 bit was considered so important. 64 bit will be the Haiku standard (Linux will be at 256 bit)[15:46:35] *** rennj_ <rennj_!~rennj@host-69-146-167-35.static.bresnan.net> has joined #haiku[15:49:16] *** SteveH2013 <SteveH2013!~vision@c-24-129-87-240.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8]: i've been blurred!)[15:53:28] *** mhug <mhug!~vision@home.lepesant.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.7-H-090423]: i've been blurred!)[16:03:01] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #haiku[16:03:20] *** tojoko <tojoko!~tonio@p5B150A3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping 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OmniMancer <OmniMancer!~Paul@101.100.137.239> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[17:13:50] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@150.237.94.36> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:14:30] *** Barrett <Barrett!~barrett@unaffiliated/barrett> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[17:17:27] *** AndrewZ <AndrewZ!6202ca5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.2.202.90> has joined #haiku[17:18:22] *** knarfy <knarfy!~knarf@143.252.82.79.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[17:24:47] *** arfonzo <arfonzo!~arfonzo@2a03:b0c0:1:a1::54f:1001> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:25:30] *** arfonzo <arfonzo!~arfonzo@2a03:b0c0:1:a1::54f:1001> has joined #haiku[17:27:45] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@150.237.94.36> has joined #haiku[17:35:18] *** Barrett <Barrett!~barrett@unaffiliated/barrett> has joined #haiku[17:35:18] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Barrett[17:41:45] *** robcsi <robcsi!~vision@79.119.112.145> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8]: i've been blurred!)[17:45:20] *** rennj <rennj!~rennj@host-69-146-167-35.static.bresnan.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[17:59:17] <HAIKU-irker458> haiku.master: kallisti5 * hrev50973 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=b3a29dbdb2fa+%5E85f64f90499d[17:59:18] <HAIKU-irker458> b3a29dbdb2fa: xhci: Ensure trb3 is correct endian[18:05:46] *** humdinger <humdinger!~humdinger@x5d8577e6.dyn.telefonica.de> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[18:09:19] <HAIKU-Buildbot> build #3463 of haiku-master-x86_gcc2 is complete: Failure [failed jam @minimum-raw] Build details are at http://buildbot.haiku-os.org/builders/haiku-master-x86_gcc2/builds/3463 blamelist: Alexander von Gluck IV <kallisti5 at unixzen dot com>[18:12:48] *** Skipp_OSX <Skipp_OSX!~john@209.181.88.61> has joined #haiku[18:12:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Skipp_OSX[18:23:41] <tsundoku> is there a way to list all available attributes for a given filetype in the terminal?[18:24:16] <tsundoku> I need to manually set up filetypes that are missing on my install and the FileTypes preference interface won't show me the internal types for things[18:31:47] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #haiku[18:33:27] <Skipp_OSX> I'm not sure look in user guide[18:34:43] <Skipp_OSX> https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/attributes.html#attributes-terminal is a start[18:35:14] <Skipp_OSX> https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/queries.html#adv-query might give you what you're looking for[18:39:41] <tsundoku> all I see in the user guide is how to view and edit attributes for a file[18:39:48] <tsundoku> I want information about the attributes specified for a file type[18:40:31] <tsundoku> or if there is some other way to view the complete attribute information specified for a type, I'm open to that[18:40:53] <tsundoku> the problem is that once an attribute is added to a type, FileTypes only shows the label, not the internal name, and there is no "edit," only add or remove[18:41:19] <tsundoku> I'm not sure what I am supposed to be looking for in the user guide page about quieries.[18:41:34] <tsundoku> *queries[18:46:45] <Skipp_OSX> unfortunately neither am I[18:47:16] <Skipp_OSX> all of the type information on they system is collected in something called mime_db[18:47:35] <Skipp_OSX> and mime_db is exposed through FileTypes[18:49:09] <krbtgt|> in ~/config/settings/mime_db (its a folder)[18:49:41] <krbtgt|> thats the user one[18:49:49] <krbtgt|> there's another in /system IIRC[18:50:53] *** humdinger <humdinger!~humdinger@x5d8577e6.dyn.telefonica.de> has joined #haiku[18:50:53] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o humdinger[18:52:12] <humdinger> tsundoku: you can double-click an attibute in FileType prefs.[18:52:26] <humdinger> also: catattr META:ATTR_INFO /boot/system/data/mime_db/audio[19:03:14] <tsundoku> aha[19:03:16] <tsundoku> will try[19:03:23] <tsundoku> although it would be really handy if FileTypes let you edit existing attributes instead of just deleting and recreating[19:03:25] *** jua_ <jua_!~jua@xdsl-89-0-244-128.netcologne.de> has joined #haiku[19:03:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jua_[19:03:39] <humdinger> tsundoku: you can. with a double-click[19:04:33] <tsundoku> oooooh[19:04:38] <tsundoku> that was not obvious[19:04:39] <tsundoku> thanks[19:05:42] <Skipp_OSX> as usual humdinger knows how to do it[19:06:12] <tsundoku> on that note is there any way at all to add files to /system manually?[19:07:07] <tsundoku> /boot/system rather[19:07:13] <humdinger> only by creating a HPKG[19:07:24] <humdinger> or using the writable folders.[19:07:35] <Skipp_OSX> tsundoku, you have to put stuff in /boot/system/non-packaged if you do it manually[19:07:35] <humdinger> cache, non-packaged, settings[19:07:53] <tsundoku> ah[19:08:02] <tsundoku> was just thinking about trying to fix my mime_db that got messed up somehow[19:08:23] <tsundoku> I'll do it manually in FileTypes and not worry about whether it lives in /boot/home or /boot/system[19:09:18] <humdinger> shouldn't the default mime types fix themselves next time you update Haiku?[19:09:33] <Skipp_OSX> On the subject of read only /boot/system... is there a really good reason why you can't write attributes even though you can't write files?[19:10:00] <Skipp_OSX> I'm thinking of the Spatial Finder brokenness brought up in the forums[19:10:14] <Skipp_OSX> Spatial Finder metaphor brokenness[19:10:59] <tsundoku> hmm?[19:11:03] <tsundoku> this is relevant to my interests[19:11:04] <tsundoku> link?[19:11:28] <krbtgt|> https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/spatial-file-management-and-the-read-only-packagefs/5426/13[19:11:56] <humdinger> I don't know enough about bfs. the attibutes are put in the same inode, entry_ref whatever as the file. if it's read-only for the file, it's as well for the attribute, I'd say.[19:12:08] <tsundoku> oh yeah I noticed this problem[19:13:18] <krbtgt|> i mean, one option is to just writes fall together to an overlaid filesystem of sorts[19:13:54] <Skipp_OSX> humdinger, well of course they are[19:14:05] <krbtgt|> this is what MS did in Vista when programs were dumb and wrote to r/o directories - it instead went to another path in the user's settings folder, and reads/writes from on the overlaid directory were first checked[19:14:24] <tsundoku> I really hope people don't start giving up on attributes just for the sake of convenience or interoperability[19:14:48] <humdinger> me too[19:14:55] <tsundoku> personally I don't think it's that important to set up a way for multiple users to have their own view settings and window size/position for the same folder[19:15:15] <tsundoku> in a theoretical multi-user haiku, users wouldn't have write access to the attributes on other users' directories anyway[19:15:25] <tsundoku> so they wouldn't affect the other users' settings even if they tried to browse their homes[19:15:43] <humdinger> the problem exists even without multiuser[19:16:25] <krbtgt|> if you're trying to preserve spatiality with packagefs or a CD or whatever[19:16:27] <Skipp_OSX> right but I see his point, one users window location settings shouldn't affect another's[19:16:53] <krbtgt|> but IIRC, i think the classic mac OS just gave up bothering to preserve layouts for RO media[19:17:05] <krbtgt|> maybe it kept the layout in RAM until finder restarted[19:17:15] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@150.237.94.36> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[19:17:19] <humdinger> if we solve the attributes on read-only, we fixed it for multiusers too[19:17:28] <krbtgt|> but IIRC, the classic finder's implementation is god as far as spatiality goes[19:17:46] <tsundoku> the only reason why attributes on read-only are even a concern is because the system directories are read-only[19:17:52] <tsundoku> they used to not be[19:18:07] <tsundoku> I think it's fine to just forget about it for read-only in general[19:18:14] <tsundoku> better than giving up on true extended attributes at least[19:18:37] <tsundoku> I don't see why it would be a problem with multiuser, though, because users wouldn't be able to write to each others' directories[19:18:55] <Skipp_OSX> that doesn't really make sense if you believe in the Gospel of the Spatial metaphor[19:19:04] <krbtgt|> though what about filesystems without metadata support?[19:19:27] <krbtgt|> like your fat32 disks or your NFS mount[19:19:30] <Skipp_OSX> krbtgt|, I think you know the answer to that[19:19:33] <humdinger> also, multiuser share /system[19:19:35] <krbtgt|> i can't remember how tracker did that[19:19:45] <krbtgt|> its been a LONG time since i used R5[19:19:57] <krbtgt|> and i havent tested nfs/fat disks[19:19:58] <tsundoku> for that kind of thing you could create a hidden file containing a representation of BFS attributes?[19:20:06] <humdinger> krbtgt|: the same Haiku's tracker deals with it: not.[19:20:22] <krbtgt|> ah[19:20:37] <jua_> humdinger, I don't think attributes are a problem with multiuser. And I'd very certainly not like to give up the nice integration they have all around Haiku, that's always been one of the strongest points of BeOS :)[19:21:20] <humdinger> I agree, jua_. We can ignore the problem, but it still is a problem. :)[19:21:26] <jua_> the problem that we currently can't store the window layout for packagefs directories is unfortunate, but could be easily solved in ways that are completely transparent to the user[19:21:57] <jua_> I said nothing about ignoring the problem. We just have to fix it.[19:21:57] <tsundoku> as long as it doesn't involve doing something like Mac OS X's .DS_Store files[19:21:59] <humdinger> e.g. multiple users setting attributes for rating of media, opened line of a text file etc.[19:22:14] <humdinger> jua_: the how is the interesting part.[19:22:32] <tsundoku> I don't think any OS/filesystem has tried to make all of the stuff we're talking bout work for multiple users[19:22:34] <jua_> humdinger, easy solution: attributes get an owning user/group and permissions, then each user can have their own, or share it, or whatever.[19:22:58] <tsundoku> speaking of the system directories, where do file type icon files live?[19:23:09] * tsundoku still recreating the audio filetypes from scratch[19:23:46] <humdinger> jua_: we await your patch. :)[19:24:02] <jua_> humdinger, uhm, we don't even have multiuser ;-)[19:24:21] <humdinger> I mean for storing attibutes at read-only locations[19:24:24] <Skipp_OSX> jua_: that does sound like it could work[19:24:25] <jua_> post-R1, Tracker will need an overhaul anyway, then is the time to think about how it could be done.[19:24:38] <Skipp_OSX> humdinger, well, read-only is a different problem[19:24:49] <Skipp_OSX> humdinger, we should solve that one first[19:25:01] <Skipp_OSX> before R1 if at all possible[19:25:10] <jua_> humdinger, tbh that is to me a "nice to have" type issue, i.e. not something I'd priotize for R1. IMO there's many way more important things to do.[19:25:33] <jua_> So don't expect a patch from me ;-)[19:25:42] <humdinger> agreed. that's wh the ticket is 3 years old.[19:26:12] <jua_> We have older tickets than that ;)[19:26:27] <Skipp_OSX> I wouldn't hold up the release but if somebody fixed it post released we should include it in a point upgrade :)[19:27:00] <jua_> Yeah[19:27:23] *** maywork <maywork!~meiryo@131.94.186.143> has joined #haiku[19:28:17] <jua_> I haven't thought about it too much - but two possible solutions come to mind: either integrate a kind of attribute-overlay in packagefs itself (limited to only a few special attirbute types though), or store them somewhere else (e.g. on the HPKG file where the package dir comes from) and do the magic in Tracker.[19:29:16] <humdinger> the latter would lose the attributes on updates.[19:29:43] <jua_> Then updates must transfer the attributes.[19:30:37] <humdinger> also when doing manual updates by moving packages.[19:30:43] <humdinger> much magic... :)[19:31:22] <humdinger> guess the package_daemon would do it...[19:31:42] <jua_> But are you seriously suggesting we give up on attributes and use a really lame "store things in files somewhere in a subdir of home" solution instead? ;P[19:32:03] <humdinger> no. that would be disappointing, as I said :)[19:32:10] <jua_> Good :][19:32:54] <jua_> The package thing is the smaller issue IMO. A bigger/trickier one is how to preserve attributes across filesystem which don't support them, such as FAT32, used on USB sticks everywhere...[19:33:55] <PulkoMandy> btw, on MacOS I remember some shareware collections CDs came with fancy preset attributes for directories[19:33:59] <Skipp_OSX> For that I think we would have to use a "lame" solution like storing the attributes in hidden files or something like that[19:34:02] <humdinger> yes. but if Haiku could pull it off - transparent, elegant, performant - that would be awesome![19:34:05] <PulkoMandy> it was nice that you couldn't mess those up too easily :)[19:34:17] <Skipp_OSX> I really hate .DS_Store files that OS X litters all over the place[19:34:33] <krbtgt|> hey, don't forget, NTFS actually supports attributes![19:34:40] <PulkoMandy> so maybe we should just improve our default layout, and preset some attributes for system dirs, and don't let people edit those[19:34:53] <jua_> Yeah, hidden files is one way, but then it should definitely be user-configurable per-volume whether it does it or not... people hate the littering of .DS_Store ;)[19:36:06] <jua_> krbtgt|, almost all modern filesystems do (although most do it much more limited than BFS).. from the popular desktop-system filesystems in use out there it's mainly FAT32 and exFAT which don't[19:36:15] <Skipp_OSX> Another way is to store it all on one hidden file at the root of the volume like Apple does with Spotlight-V100 and I guess we both do with Trash[19:36:31] <Skipp_OSX> both Haiku and OS X do I mean[19:37:01] <jua_> Windows does as well (creating trash folders)[19:37:25] <Skipp_OSX> very common file system malady[19:37:43] <PulkoMandy> the main problem is each of them creates the trash in a different place :>[19:38:06] <PulkoMandy> but IIRC Windows does not create the trash for removable media, unless they changed things since last time I checked[19:40:07] <Skipp_OSX> It would be nice to have a unified Trash directory across platforms but that is pure craziness[19:45:13] <tsundoku> ^[19:51:11] *** AD_MOS <AD_MOS!~JohnN@bcdf1df9.skybroadband.com> has joined #haiku[19:53:44] <humdinger> tsundoku: filetype icons are attributes of the /boot/system/data/mime_db/*[19:59:44] <krbtgt|> the day microosft implements freedesktopo standards is the day i snarf my drink[20:01:56] *** King_Warg <King_Warg!~Wildman@50.110.102.38> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[20:02:10] *** King_Warg <King_Warg!~Wildman@50.110.102.38> has joined #haiku[20:02:13] *** Skipp_OSX <Skipp_OSX!~john@209.181.88.61> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[20:05:04] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[20:11:43] *** AD_MOS <AD_MOS!~JohnN@bcdf1df9.skybroadband.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[20:14:34] *** cucujoidea <cucujoidea!b20a0833@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.10.8.51> has joined #haiku[20:14:53] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!5438b3c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.56.179.200> has joined #haiku[20:26:14] *** MrSunshine <MrSunshine!~mrsun@81-225-60-243-no168.bredband.skanova.com> has joined #haiku[20:29:54] *** humdinger <humdinger!~humdinger@x5d8577e6.dyn.telefonica.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8pre9]: Oi, with the poodles already!)[20:33:47] *** tqh <tqh!~frho@37.250.24.22.bredband.tre.se> has joined #haiku[20:33:47] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o tqh[20:37:16] <tsundoku> well there we go[20:37:24] <tsundoku> I just updated to hrev50972 and I got all of that stuff back[20:37:30] <tsundoku> not sure what happened to them in 50971[20:39:37] *** tojoko <tojoko!~tonio@91.21.8.189> has joined #haiku[20:47:22] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@ip5f5b0a2f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has joined #haiku[20:48:15] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@ip5f5b0a2f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[20:48:24] *** kaiser <kaiser!uid203960@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-admzfrbiscohtcai> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[20:48:54] *** rennj <rennj!~rennj@host-69-146-167-35.static.bresnan.net> has joined #haiku[20:52:06] <tsundoku> regarding the recent conversation about attributes etc.[20:52:21] <tsundoku> is there any good way to preserve BeOS attributes in a backup?[20:52:28] <tsundoku> for example, an archive format that supports them>?[20:53:05] *** fujisan <fujisan!~fujisan@unaffiliated/fujisan> has joined #haiku[20:53:33] <krbtgt|> let me check if zip works there[20:53:42] *** AD_MOS <AD_MOS!~JohnN@bcdf1df9.skybroadband.com> has joined #haiku[20:54:13] <krbtgt|> zip files do[20:54:16] <jua_> yes, if you pack ZIPs Expander, it will work[20:54:28] *** Begasus <Begasus!~begasus@ptr-4p6jpin0c17216mg4jb.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined #haiku[20:54:54] <tsundoku> cool[20:55:26] <jua_> or rather, with zip-o-matic.. expander is for unpacking[20:55:52] <krbtgt|> http://i.imgur.com/wc0i3Lx.png[20:56:15] <krbtgt|> i zip-o-matic'd the the MP3, moved the zip into another folder for testing, expander'd it[20:56:19] <krbtgt|> Just Works[20:56:23] <tsundoku> just making sure I can pack up my music directory like this before I Army Knife all of the things[20:56:27] <tsundoku> nice[20:56:45] <tsundoku> using BeDecorator are you?[20:56:58] <krbtgt|> wish i could get the controls to match[20:57:06] <krbtgt|> and i can't remember what foont be used[20:57:13] <tsundoku> Swis721BT![20:57:19] <krbtgt|> i wish ArmyKnife had a tracker addon[20:57:25] <tsundoku> thaaat would be nice[20:57:46] <tsundoku> especially if it did, say... recursive tag->attribute copy for an entire directory[20:57:57] <krbtgt|> alas, the world is cruel[20:58:06] <tsundoku> my Japanese catkeys got merged into AmryKnife a couple of hours ago by the way[20:58:10] <tsundoku> *Army[20:58:26] <krbtgt|> glory for nihongo[20:58:48] <tsundoku> there are a couple of touchup things to do because of some code that overrides the catkeys to set singlular/plural strings for English[20:58:52] <tsundoku> but it's on par with the other locales for now[20:58:57] *** Diver <Diver!~Adium@broadband-46-242-8-225.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #haiku[20:59:12] <tsundoku> re: theme I was pleased to see BeDecorator there but I've fallen in love with the smoother Haiku defaults[20:59:35] <tsundoku> just enough of an update for the times without going too far[20:59:54] <krbtgt|> true[21:00:19] <tsundoku> the Haiku aesthetic reminds me of what GTK2 was going for... soft colors, playful icons, light shading and beleving[21:00:19] <krbtgt|> there's been a very minor debate about default font[21:00:22] *** gouchi <gouchi!~gouchi@ivr94-8-88-162-27-162.fbx.proxad.net> has joined #haiku[21:00:25] <krbtgt|> yeah, like a be clearlooks[21:00:30] <tsundoku> then everything went flat and high contrast[21:00:33] <tsundoku> everywhere else[21:00:46] <krbtgt|> noto vs. dejavu though.... i personally think noto with the size cranked up a notch would be best, but i don't build the bikesheds[21:00:58] <tsundoku> granted be was doing that look already, but Haiku people did a good job of shining them up for the 2010s[21:01:11] <tsundoku> I like noto personally[21:01:18] <tsundoku> what is noto's lineage though?[21:01:30] <tsundoku> was it made for Haiku or no? I've never seen it anywhere else and it looks suspiciously similar to Swis721[21:02:31] <jua_> it was made by google[21:02:35] <tsundoku> is that so[21:02:39] <krbtgt|> noto si from google, IIRC is has better coverage than dejavu in some locales[21:02:52] <tsundoku> well, I think it's a good fit in any case[21:03:01] <tsundoku> dejavu looked kind of rough[21:03:09] *** BrunoS <BrunoS!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #haiku[21:03:13] <krbtgt|> my only real big beef with noto is that is just looks a bit too small by default for the control metrics[21:03:24] <tsundoku> and dejavu is everywhere (lots of Linux environments use it as a default UI font) so it doesn't impart a Haiku/Be-specific character[21:03:34] <tsundoku> hmm[21:03:39] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!5438b3c8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.56.179.200> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[21:03:43] <tsundoku> I don't have a problem with that but it looks a bit different in Japanese[21:03:58] <tsundoku> the only thing that I think is odd about noto is that it forces the window titlebars to be kind of tall[21:04:03] <tsundoku> there is a lot of padding above and below the title text[21:04:14] <tsundoku> it doesn't bother me and it looks good but it is slightly curious[21:04:22] <BrunoS> yes exact[21:04:32] <tsundoku> I don't think I would want bigger fonts in any case.[21:04:49] <tsundoku> I'm sick of the big fonts in every other OS and Haiku's defaults make me plenty happy[21:08:38] *** geoid_ <geoid_!~geoid@host86-171-206-235.range86-171.btcentralplus.com> has joined #haiku[21:09:54] <tsundoku> I was thinking about dropping in M+IPAG circle but it would probably upset the balance of things[21:11:19] <krbtgt|> M+IPAG?[21:11:22] <PulkoMandy> the extra space in the decorators we can probably fix[21:11:42] <PulkoMandy> it's probably just a bug in the way we compute tab size from font metrics[21:11:53] <tsundoku> ah[21:12:11] <PulkoMandy> as for the default font size… well I use 10pn everywhere so I think it's better I don't enter that debate :>[21:12:23] <PulkoMandy> 10pt*[21:12:26] <tsundoku> krbtgt|: http://mix-mplus-ipa.osdn.jp/mplus2006_ipa2003/preview.html[21:13:00] <PulkoMandy> the nice thing about Noto is that they try to provide fonts for all possible languages[21:13:08] <PulkoMandy> which means we can have a single look for everyone[21:13:14] <tsundoku> it has big circle diacritics for increased readability[21:13:19] <tsundoku> yeah[21:13:28] <PulkoMandy> before we had a mix of DejaVu for Latin/Cyrillic, but VL-Gothic for Japanese and wqi Microhei for Chinese[21:13:41] <tsundoku> I hate it when I change the locale to Japanese on an OS with a beautiful default roman font and get some crap pixellated CJK font that nobody cares about[21:13:46] <PulkoMandy> and endless research to figure out a suitable font with appropriate language for everything else[21:13:58] <tsundoku> VL Gothic isn't a bad choice but Noto is nicer[21:14:24] <tsundoku> I always thought VL Gothic looked a bit idiosyncratic[21:14:37] <PulkoMandy> I think we just went with what we could find[21:14:41] <tsundoku> yeah[21:14:58] <tsundoku> if that's all it was, though, maybe I'll try M+IPAG circle and see if it looks good or not[21:15:03] <tsundoku> Noto is a good default though[21:15:29] *** cucujoidea <cucujoidea!b20a0833@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.10.8.51> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[21:15:50] <Barrett> BrunoS, https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/12448[21:15:55] <Barrett> please test this[21:16:12] <Barrett> see last comment of mine.[21:16:40] <PulkoMandy> tsundoku: anyways, reports of problems with CJK fonts and translations are welcome[21:16:47] <krbtgt|> yes i missed you so much Swis721BT[21:16:47] <tsundoku> OK[21:16:49] <krbtgt|> i haves it now[21:16:54] <tsundoku> heh[21:17:02] <tsundoku> too bad it doesn't support Japanese (at least I don't think it does)[21:17:14] <PulkoMandy> I do my best to watch for problems there but I'm not familiar with many langages outside french/english/spanish so I can't detect all the problems :)[21:17:21] <tsundoku> the Haru font Be included for Japanese is not particularly amazing[21:17:26] <tsundoku> sure[21:17:41] <tsundoku> the Japanese localization overall is pretty good[21:17:58] <tsundoku> I see a few small areas that are not localized that I should be able to submit myself at some point[21:18:13] <tsundoku> stuff like the contextual menu in WebPositive[21:18:19] <tsundoku> folder names in the Be menu[21:18:41] <tsundoku> a few preference title[21:18:43] <tsundoku> *titles[21:19:09] <tsundoku> at the moment I'm busy localizing stuff in haiku-apps because many of them aren't at all[21:19:11] <PulkoMandy> WebPositive needs patches for localization[21:19:21] <PulkoMandy> (that menu is part of WebKit, to be precise)[21:19:31] <tsundoku> ahh[21:19:38] <tsundoku> that's... disappointing to hear[21:19:51] <tsundoku> I didn't know that webkit handled drawing contextual menus and scrollbars for pages[21:19:56] <PulkoMandy> folder names in Be menu I think are switchable from the Locales preferences ("translate system dirs and app names" or something)[21:20:03] <tsundoku> it doesn't affect them[21:20:06] <PulkoMandy> it doesn't draw the menu, but it provides the content[21:20:16] <krbtgt|> webkit comes from the necromicon, which needs trnalsation from sumerian[21:20:32] <tsundoku> those folder names aren't translated, and some of the preference titles aren't translated (like Network)[21:20:49] <PulkoMandy> there is a single file with all the strings from WebKit, so it is rather easy to add the B_TRANSLATE call there, and should be easy to extract the catkeys too[21:20:59] <tsundoku> OK[21:21:01] <PulkoMandy> then people can do the usual thing with CatKeysEditor[21:21:07] *** SteveH2013 <SteveH2013!~vision@c-24-129-87-240.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has joined #haiku[21:21:13] <tsundoku> there's a CatKeysEditor?[21:21:19] <PulkoMandy> we should consider setting up a Pootle instance (or projects in the existing instance) for these apps[21:21:22] <PulkoMandy> yes, it is in HaikuDepot[21:21:28] <tsundoku> looking[21:21:31] <tsundoku> I've just been using pe[21:21:48] <tsundoku> I don't see it. maybe it's not built for 64-bit[21:21:50] <tsundoku> let's see...[21:23:20] <tsundoku> time to localize catkeyseditor using itself[21:23:22] *** tojoko <tojoko!~tonio@91.21.8.189> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[21:24:00] <tsundoku> while doing that... another idle thought[21:24:17] <tsundoku> I know Be never did this, but one thing I was always sad that Tracker didn't do was shade or otherwise mark open directories[21:29:54] *** rgb <rgb!8166fef9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.102.254.249> has joined #haiku[21:30:00] *** SteveH2013 <SteveH2013!~vision@c-24-129-87-240.hsd1.fl.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8]: i've been blurred!)[21:32:43] <PulkoMandy> yes, that would be nice[21:33:01] <PulkoMandy> also, ability to select different color/categories for folders as in Mac OS[21:36:11] *** tojoko <tojoko!~tonio@p5B1508BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #haiku[21:40:49] *** Sue <Sue!~sue@unaffiliated/sue> has joined #haiku[21:41:17] <fujisan> PulkoMandy hi[21:41:17] <fujisan> i discovered that i have autism[21:41:27] <PulkoMandy> hi[21:41:37] <fujisan> so i was thinking i should learn how to code[21:46:40] *** mikaelj <mikaelj!~mikaelj@c83-248-16-5.bredband.comhem.se> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[21:46:57] *** tqh <tqh!~frho@37.250.24.22.bredband.tre.se> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[21:47:24] *** mikaelj <mikaelj!~mikaelj@c83-248-16-5.bredband.comhem.se> has joined #haiku[21:47:53] *** gouchi <gouchi!~gouchi@ivr94-8-88-162-27-162.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:48:46] *** tqh <tqh!~frho@37.250.24.22.bredband.tre.se> has joined #haiku[21:48:46] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o tqh[21:49:45] *** gouchi <gouchi!~gouchi@ivr94-8-88-162-27-162.fbx.proxad.net> has joined #haiku[21:51:46] <fujisan> PulkoMandy are there apps in haiku to learn how to code?[21:52:14] <PulkoMandy> there is a series of PDF called "learning to program with haiku" and "programming the haiku operating system"[21:52:43] * tsundoku needs to read The Art of BeOS Programming[22:02:59] <krbtgt|> i still need to get around to figuring out why the hell mono is being weird[22:03:17] <krbtgt|> ive been unwinding it but i think it might be a bug in their code[22:03:27] <krbtgt|> either that or some subtle syscall change[22:04:37] <krbtgt|> once i do get that done though the next issue is c++ ffi[22:04:39] <krbtgt|> yuck[22:05:16] *** Diver1 <Diver1!~Adium@broadband-46-242-8-225.moscow.rt.ru> has joined #haiku[22:06:47] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@253.206-40-118.netnet.net> has joined #haiku[22:06:47] *** HaikuUser is now known as Dane__[22:07:35] *** Diver <Diver!~Adium@broadband-46-242-8-225.moscow.rt.ru> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[22:07:35] *** Dane__ <Dane__!~vision@253.206-40-118.netnet.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[22:07:57] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@253.206-40-118.netnet.net> has joined #haiku[22:07:57] *** HaikuUser is now known as Dane__[22:10:11] *** Dane__ <Dane__!~vision@253.206-40-118.netnet.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[22:11:17] *** HaikuUser <HaikuUser!~vision@253.206-40-118.netnet.net> has joined #haiku[22:11:17] *** HaikuUser is now known as Dane__[22:12:30] <BrunoS> Is autism a advantage in learning to code?[22:14:09] *** BrunoS <BrunoS!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8]: vanished!)[22:16:58] *** Begasus <Begasus!~begasus@ptr-4p6jpin0c17216mg4jb.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat)[22:17:23] *** leszek <leszek!~leszek@p2003005B443F3D00022314FFFEAF6410.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)[22:19:56] *** axeld <axeld!~Thunderbi@dyndsl-188-118-158-026.ewe-ip-backbone.de> has quit IRC (Quit: axeld)[22:24:33] *** bbjimmy <bbjimmy!vision@184.21.100.16> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8]: i've been blurred!)[22:31:16] *** bbjimmy <bbjimmy!vision@184.21.100.16> has joined #haiku[22:54:33] <tsundoku> just checking to make sure I'm not missing something, but is there a "bring all to front" capability for application windows?[22:54:59] <tsundoku> or keyboard/mouse/anything shortcuts for show/hide all[22:58:53] <krbtgt|> Alt+` does switching between app windows, and Alt+Tab just does apps (IIRC, same as mac os)[22:59:36] <tsundoku> right, but that's not what I'm asking about[22:59:59] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #haiku[23:02:23] <tsundoku> basically I'm thinking about it from a Mac perspective[23:02:23] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[23:03:23] <tsundoku> BeOS/Haiku inherit that Mac-style application-centric window management that seem to be almost exclusive to products of Apple and its alumni[23:03:50] <tsundoku> but as far as I understand doing some of the quick Mac tricks like hding an application or bringing all of its windows to the front aren't quite as easy[23:04:16] *** tojoko <tojoko!~tonio@p5B1508BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[23:08:28] *** qeos|2 <qeos|2!~kvirc@37.204.81.98> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[23:09:54] *** qeos <qeos!~kvirc@37.204.81.98> has joined #haiku[23:16:53] *** Ptrus <Ptrus!vision@68.118.40.186> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:17:21] *** Ptrus <Ptrus!vision@68.118.40.186> has joined #haiku[23:17:22] <krbtgt|> tsundoku: the Deskbar submenu for each app[23:17:37] <krbtgt|> it has Show/Hide all IIRC[23:18:07] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #haiku[23:18:12] *** BrunoSpr <BrunoSpr!~BS@dslb-084-056-179-200.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[23:22:02] <tsundoku> krbtgt|: I know[23:22:07] <tsundoku> I was asking if it was possible with the keyboard[23:22:13] <tsundoku> and also whether it was possible to bring all to front[23:23:02] *** Vidrep <Vidrep!~vision@d108-173-61-127.abhsia.telus.net> has joined #haiku[23:23:07] <johnny_b> maybe with using hey and SpicyKeys[23:23:42] *** Vidrep <Vidrep!~vision@d108-173-61-127.abhsia.telus.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[23:29:40] <tsundoku> hmm[23:29:43] <tsundoku> I'll have to play with it[23:29:54] <tsundoku> I would love to be able to bring all to front or hide with a keyboard command[23:30:40] <tsundoku> or do it with 2nd or 3rd mouse button when clicking on the deskbar entry[23:33:47] *** tqh <tqh!~frho@37.250.24.22.bredband.tre.se> has quit IRC (Quit: Lämnar)[23:37:08] <johnny_b> SpicyKeys is in default install, under *Keys name[23:38:44] *** Vidrep <Vidrep!~vision@d108-173-61-127.abhsia.telus.net> has joined #haiku[23:45:08] <tsundoku> *Keys name?[23:46:14] *** Vidrep <Vidrep!~vision@d108-173-61-127.abhsia.telus.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Vision[0.9.8]: i've been blurred!)[23:46:21] *** Guma <Guma!~quassel@c-73-211-254-124.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has joined #haiku[23:47:19] *** dooh <dooh!sid28465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnriztizlkalfrrb> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[23:48:05] *** dooh <dooh!sid28465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kjhyeolmaplnseue> has joined #haiku[23:49:55] <johnny_b> i don't have access to haiku now and i can't remember the exact name[23:50:22] *** Guma <Guma!~quassel@c-73-211-254-124.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[23:51:34] *** Guma <Guma!~quassel@c-73-211-254-124.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has joined #haiku[23:53:11] *** geoid_ <geoid_!~geoid@host86-171-206-235.range86-171.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Lingo: www.lingoirc.com)[23:54:42] *** dooh <dooh!sid28465@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kjhyeolmaplnseue> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)