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   August 14, 2016  
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[00:05:51] <Vidrep> WEnt shopping today for a new toy - a USB3.1 adaptor card to test on Haiku
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[00:40:27] <Vidrep> My new USB3 adaptor card apparently doesn't play well with Haiku
[00:40:45] <Vidrep> It KDL's as soon as a device is attached
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[03:24:41] <HAIKU-irker848> haiku.master: anevilyak * hrev50487 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=8471ec3d566d+%5Eb7012e6c465f
[03:24:42] <HAIKU-irker848> 8471ec3d566d: libdebugger: Fix #12913.
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[09:32:50] <HAIKU-irker848> haiku.master: pulkomandy * hrev50488 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=c92f19c6e81c+%5E8471ec3d566d
[09:32:51] <HAIKU-irker848> c92f19c6e81c: Fix definition of _setjmp
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[10:45:33] <stargater> moin
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[11:12:26] <stargater> oh oh google working on a new OS https://www.engadget.com/2016/08/13/google-fuchsia-operating-system/
[11:13:05] <stargater> i read beos in the text -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12271658
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[11:18:33] <moochris> Yes, looks interesting, especially considering the people involved
[11:24:13] <geist> yeah it's a project i've been working on for the last year
[11:26:17] <moochris> Ah, the famous man himself :) Is Magenta written from scratch or is NewOS reused there at all?
[11:28:23] <geist> only secondarily. it's mostly based on LK, which is my second major Os that i've worked on since newos
[11:28:41] <geist> and some pieces of LK have some newos heritage
[11:29:01] <stargater> geist: nice
[11:29:03] <geist> but it's a mostly different direction. we're building a microkernel for this one
[11:29:21] <geist> and worrying almost exclusively on 64bit
[11:29:30] <geist> which really frees you to do some interesting things
[11:29:58] <stargater> i read the new os will using DART?
[11:30:28] <geist> that is a language that is supported, yes
[11:30:37] <geist> but it's one of many. the system is language agnostic
[11:30:52] <stargater> ok, for UI?
[11:31:12] <geist> you gotta dig into the source, but it's flutter based
[11:31:21] <stargater> ok then i hope golang will play a big roll on the new os
[11:31:33] <geist> golang does, yes. it's a first class citizen
[11:31:44] <geist> aside from the run time requirements, it makes a half decent system language
[11:32:09] <stargater> but all in all, its nice to see geist you kernel goes more and more puplic
[11:32:21] <geist> it's all i know how to do
[11:32:23] <moochris> Sounds very interesting - I like the filesystem layout, looks a lot more sane than Linux
[11:32:39] <geist> i'm actually pushing internally to use BFS as the main fs
[11:33:03] <geist> that'd be trippy. full circle
[11:33:19] <moochris> Wow, awesome :)
[11:33:46] <stargater> :-( when this os came out, can haiku dowside
[11:34:03] <moochris> I don't think they would be competitors - different targets?
[11:34:42] <geist> it's kinda like an ambitious hobby os project, except we have a lot of folks working full time
[11:35:07] <geist> but less time. but we went from deciding to do it in january to actually having a working prototype now
[11:35:14] <geist> put together a good team
[11:35:22] <geist> it's amazing how fast progress is happening
[11:35:27] <stargater> geist: befs or bfs?
[11:35:37] <geist> is there a difference?
[11:35:41] <geist> when i worked on it it was simply bfs
[11:35:43] <stargater> sure
[11:36:04] <stargater> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/fs/bfs/Kconfig?id=refs/tags/v4.7
[11:36:24] <stargater> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/fs/befs/Kconfig?id=refs/tags/v4.7
[11:37:31] <geist> that's linux
[11:37:40] <geist> dont care what they name it. it'll always be bfs for me
[11:37:47] <geist> that's what we called it at Be, and that's what it was
[11:38:06] <geist> i dont even know what linux's bfs is
[11:38:20] <stargater> yes surce, but i listen some humans have never see beos :-)
[11:38:44] <geist> well, i'm in a haiku channel, so i generalyl assume my audience knows what beos is
[11:38:56] <moochris> I would hope so :)
[11:39:20] <stargater> its an old boot file system from SCO UnixeWare
[11:42:31] <stargater> haiku have lost past the right way
[11:43:52] <stargater> i have see some plan9 userland tools and apps are rewrite in goolang
[11:44:10] <jessicah> geist: it would be fantastic if you guys use bfs
[11:44:42] <geist> since file systems run in user space it's much easier to port foreign fs implementations too
[11:44:55] <jessicah> would you guys reuse haiku's bfs driver, or would it be from scratch?
[11:45:09] <geist> beats me. i'm suggesting that we reuse haiku's driver
[11:45:17] <geist> but i have no idea if it'll line up with what we want to do
[11:45:26] <jessicah> would be interesting if it means can improve the bfs driver
[11:45:28] <geist> sadly though i'm a big fs person, i really have my hands fullwith the kernel
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[11:45:51] <jessicah> and maybe add some new features to bfs perhaps, like hard links, etc.
[11:45:58] <geist> i have to sadly let that go to someone else, though mmap() support for a user space service is interesting
[11:46:03] <jessicah> and/or improve small file speed improvements
[11:46:23] <geist> perhaps. we're not too fixated on posix and traditionally unixy thing, but we'd also like to self host at some point
[11:46:27] <geist> so we need enough
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[11:47:44] <jessicah> be good to have extra engineers poking at the bfs driver :)
[11:48:38] <geist> yeah totally. we'd absolutely be running stress tests out the wazoo
[11:49:13] <geist> hopefully the flavor of c++ the haiku driver is written in isn't too foreign
[11:49:51] <stargater> :-)
[11:50:43] <stargater> but a rewrite of befs in golang are nice too
[11:51:12] <stargater> with unions mounts like plan9 fs
[11:51:18] <geist> maybe... i'm pretty leery of writing a fs implementation in go
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[11:51:35] <geist> many other servers maybe, but FSes tend to be highly tied to the VM and whatnot, even in user space
[11:51:46] <geist> and you'd have to work around go's implementation a lot
[11:52:03] <geist> double so if you ever intend to swap over one
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[11:55:33] <stargater> but golang can used the own assembler code for portability, c (c++) to wrapping thinks and then in go the "how its runs/works" stuff
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[12:00:02] <geist> it gets harder with complex memory management, which we'll get into with FS implementations for fs cache
[12:00:20] <geist> all of the caching layer has to be doing some pretty complex back and forth with the kernel
[12:02:09] <stargater> sure, but when golang have a low level lib or tool then eg. setting gc off + used unsafe only
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[12:03:04] <stargater> i am not sure but i listen the gc kan set on/off and unsafe are can used, but iam not sure.
[12:04:46] <stargater> golang c compile are nice too he generate c object code and linked to a binary
[12:05:52] <stargater> but anyway i hope the google new os will more static lib thinks like libbe and libroot and sdk API like beos
[12:08:04] <moochris> I also hope it would have a stable ABI unlike Linux
[12:09:37] <stargater> but defently good work geist :-) my respect have you
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[12:11:50] <DerRaiden> Thumbs to the great work of the Haiku developers!!
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[12:35:26] <Megaf> Folks, have you tested Opera on Haiku? http://arc.opera.com/pub/opera/beos/362/final/en/
[12:36:02] <PulkoMandy> Megaf: IIRC it needed some hacks with translators, not sure if that's fixed yet
[12:36:06] <PulkoMandy> otherwise it runs well
[12:36:31] <Megaf> But I'm afraid it is not very useful now a days, is it?
[12:36:48] <PulkoMandy> yes, you can't expect much from a version this old
[12:37:09] <Megaf> I used to use this version on Windows 3.11 for Workgroups
[12:37:30] <Megaf> Great Windows version by the way, if we can say that a version of Windows is great
[12:37:51] <PulkoMandy> jessicah: adding hardlinks to bfs would require incompatible on-disk structure changes, that's why it was not done - maybe for a bfs2, and if people from another project want to start hacking on that, we can merge their work :)
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[16:20:52] <Begasus> 'lo peeps
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[16:23:52] <necrophcodr> I am unable to set up a monthly reccuring payment on http://www.haiku-inc.org/donations.html#online
[16:23:56] <necrophcodr> Is this a known problem?
[16:24:54] <necrophcodr> Oh nevermind. It appears that my Firefox installation renders the radiobuttons on the site almost invisible.
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[20:16:01] <Vidrep> Hi
[20:17:39] <humdinger> Hi Vidrep
[20:18:24] <Vidrep> Hey humdinger
[20:19:16] <Vidrep> Does Haiku not support external USB optical drives yet?
[20:19:41] <humdinger> I think so. never tried myself though...
[20:20:31] <Vidrep> I tried a while ago, but it didn't work. Maybe time to see for myself again
[20:21:09] <Vidrep> The USB3 implementation is only for internal chipsets, or for plug in cards as well?
[20:21:59] <humdinger> I don't think it makes a difference, but what do I know... ? :)
[20:22:27] <Vidrep> I took a chance and bought one yesterday
[20:23:12] <Vidrep> Haiku detects the card and all, but plugging in a USB device into the port set it into KDL
[20:23:24] <Vidrep> sent
[20:23:43] <humdinger> you could try blacklisting xhci
[20:23:59] <humdinger> only USB2 then, but...
[20:26:17] <Vidrep> I created a ticket for future reference
[20:26:27] <Vidrep> Maybe one day...
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[20:29:41] <Vidrep> Good news! My external USB optical drive is now working
[20:30:25] *** Tims_Tech is now known as Timstest
[20:30:25] <Vidrep> Last time I tried it (maybe a year or more ago) it didn't work at all. Progress is good...
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[20:48:50] <Vidrep> It looks like ticket #6181 is still valid (external usb drive)
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[22:10:04] <DaaT> evening
[22:14:43] <postmen|afk> hi da. ;)
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[22:45:13] <stargater> hi
[22:45:18] <stargater> hi DaaT
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   August 14, 2016  
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