April 25, 2015 
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April 25, 2015 [00:02:04] *** Poca has quit IRC[00:07:30] *** tqh has quit IRC[00:08:18] *** Poca has joined #haiku[00:09:53] <jessicah> waddlesplash: ouch :([00:09:56] * jessicah hugs waddlesplash[00:10:24] <waddlesplash> I don't need hugs, but a whole bunch of others I know do.[00:10:39] <jessicah> everybody needs hugs![00:10:47] <jessicah> hugs are awesome[00:12:56] *** qNemo has joined #haiku[00:13:07] <geist> yeah, need a hug robot[00:13:47] *** qptain_Nemo has quit IRC[00:14:12] *** cucujoidea has quit IRC[00:14:17] *** Martini_ has quit IRC[00:16:26] *** happy-dude has quit IRC[00:24:22] <Carl_Miller> jessicah++[00:25:01] <Carl_Miller> So I can't get on the Internet at all on Haiku (NForce 4 built-in Ethernet), what do?[00:25:19] <jessicah> cry? :p[00:25:25] <jessicah> mm, nvidia crap ftl ;)[00:25:47] *** Vidiot_X has joined #haiku[00:26:01] <jessicah> we get our drivers from freebsd9[00:26:05] <jessicah> for network[00:33:10] <Carl_Miller> jessicah: :|[00:33:17] <Carl_Miller> Crying won't help me any. <_<[00:34:41] <Carl_Miller> jessicah: Is there a fallback network driver or am I SOL?[00:36:10] <jessicah> SOL[00:37:00] <Carl_Miller> :<[00:37:16] * Carl_Miller wonders where his wifi card is[00:52:14] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[00:54:49] *** [r4] has quit IRC[01:12:15] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[01:17:22] *** milwaukee has joined #haiku[01:18:11] <milwaukee> How difficult is it to get HaikuOS working on the Raspberry Pi? A quick google search only turned up stuff from a couple years ago[01:24:50] *** epigraph has quit IRC[01:25:05] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[01:27:00] *** mattlacey has joined #haiku[01:30:23] *** Max-Might has quit IRC[01:32:39] <ex-parrot> milwaukee: it doesn't currently run at all, sorry :([01:33:05] <ex-parrot> some folks are working on it but I don't know what if any timeframes they're looking at[01:33:18] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[01:33:38] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[01:33:38] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o waddlesplash[01:35:45] *** mattlacey has quit IRC[01:41:01] *** milwaukee has quit IRC[01:44:16] *** [r4] has quit IRC[01:46:18] *** NumberNoid is now known as zz_NumberNoid[01:51:50] <waddlesplash> ex-parrot: Rpi1, never[01:51:56] <waddlesplash> Rpi2, almost boots iirc[01:52:12] *** Vidiot_ has joined #haiku[01:52:57] <ex-parrot> oh awesome[01:53:01] <ex-parrot> my data is out of date :D[01:53:23] <waddlesplash> actually I think it starts the kernel but then panics bc "no boot partitons"[01:53:26] <ex-parrot> it is a long weekend, I should stop being a lazy turd and see if I can fix some bugs in that[01:54:25] *** Vidiot_X has quit IRC[02:03:11] *** therazor has joined #haiku[02:21:12] *** therazor has quit IRC[02:32:39] *** oblo has quit IRC[02:40:54] *** mta_ has quit IRC[02:41:09] *** mta has joined #haiku[02:43:46] *** mta has quit IRC[02:44:03] *** mta has joined #haiku[02:50:22] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[02:50:28] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[02:50:28] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o waddlesplash[02:57:47] *** kcj has joined #haiku[03:29:39] *** happy-dude has joined #haiku[03:31:53] *** Vidiot_ has quit IRC[03:33:17] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[03:35:23] *** Vidiot_ has joined #haiku[03:35:31] *** darfo has quit IRC[03:40:43] *** darfo has joined #haiku[03:52:52] *** jessicah has quit IRC[03:54:20] *** jessicah has joined #haiku[03:54:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jessicah[03:54:50] *** [JJ]Albert has quit IRC[03:56:18] *** [JJ]Albert has joined #haiku[04:02:13] <HAIKU-irker005> jessicah-github.efi.master: [73 commits] https://github.com/jessicah/haiku/compare/066cdfaf31c8[04:02:14] <HAIKU-irker005> 6457c1278e59: Add EFI linker script for x86_64 from GNU-EFI project.[04:02:15] <HAIKU-irker005> d601232ff905: Add x86_64 EFI relocation function from GNU-EFI project.[04:02:16] <HAIKU-irker005> 31d5bc970d93: Renamed to relocation_func.cpp.[04:02:17] <HAIKU-irker005> 6b09504aacdb: Remove efilib header, use extern "C" block.[04:02:18] <HAIKU-irker005> a32456377e54: Add x86_64 EFI start function from GNU-EFI project.[04:02:19] <HAIKU-irker005> ce9f57ff91f7: Rename to start_func.S[04:02:20] <HAIKU-irker005> 24d9b0e63917: Working EFI application ('Hello World') and Jamfile.[04:02:21] <HAIKU-irker005> 6c5d6330ab74: As I understand MakeLocateDebug should be used on haiku.efi[04:02:22] <HAIKU-irker005> 0ec57d020318: Use boot_loader_$(TARGET_BOOT_PLATFORM).ld naming for linker script.[04:02:23] <HAIKU-irker005> ...[04:19:10] *** schily___ has joined #haiku[04:22:19] *** chily___s has quit IRC[04:26:03] *** [JJ]Albert has quit IRC[04:26:39] *** _3dEyes has joined #haiku[04:28:18] *** [JJ]Albert has joined #haiku[04:28:55] *** dr_evil_ has joined #haiku[04:32:53] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[04:53:50] *** computerquip has quit IRC[04:54:07] *** computerquip has joined #haiku[04:57:54] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[05:13:54] *** Guma has joined #haiku[05:16:01] *** Vidiot_ has quit IRC[05:29:12] <Carl_Miller> G'night all *hug*[05:29:42] <jessicah> goodnight :)[05:34:14] *** [JJ]Albert has quit IRC[05:36:29] *** [JJ]Albert has joined #haiku[05:43:49] *** Guma is now known as Guma_[05:45:10] *** Guma_ is now known as Guma[05:50:32] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[05:53:33] *** Vidiot_ has joined #haiku[06:19:02] *** Kernel86 has joined #haiku[06:27:01] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[06:27:28] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[06:27:28] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o waddlesplash[06:27:55] <HAIKU-irker005> haiku.master: nielx * hrev49104 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=10d338445218+%5Ebd7a8d8329ac[06:27:56] <HAIKU-irker005> 10d338445218: Update translations from Pootle[06:40:23] *** bslsk05 has quit IRC[06:40:37] *** bslsk05 has joined #haiku[06:47:28] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[06:47:35] *** Leer10 has joined #haiku[06:50:36] *** zz_NumberNoid is now known as NumberNoid[06:51:38] *** Leer10 has quit IRC[06:53:09] *** Leer10 has joined #haiku[06:56:04] *** Vidiot_ has quit IRC[06:56:12] *** Vidiot_ has joined #haiku[07:04:54] *** Guma is now known as Guma_[07:06:13] *** Leer10 has quit IRC[07:09:47] *** Guma_ has quit IRC[07:09:53] *** Guma has joined #haiku[07:14:08] *** rishiraj has joined #haiku[07:26:52] *** rishiraj has quit IRC[07:44:01] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[07:44:10] *** epigraph has joined #haiku[07:47:18] *** Luko has joined #haiku[07:52:09] *** Guma has quit IRC[07:52:22] *** kurain has joined #haiku[07:53:40] *** _Dario has quit IRC[08:09:13] *** Luko has quit IRC[08:18:07] *** Timothy_1u has joined #haiku[08:19:49] *** HeTo_ has joined #haiku[08:20:04] *** Blub\0 has joined #haiku[08:20:05] *** geist_ has joined #haiku[08:20:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o geist_[08:20:32] *** Timothy_Gu has quit IRC[08:20:33] *** heoyea has quit IRC[08:20:37] *** Blub\w has quit IRC[08:20:42] *** koonat_ has quit IRC[08:20:43] *** geist has quit IRC[08:21:00] *** bigbluehat has quit IRC[08:21:02] *** HeTo has quit IRC[08:21:05] *** ex-parrot has quit IRC[08:21:17] *** ex-parrot has joined #haiku[08:22:48] *** heoyea has joined #haiku[08:23:56] *** geist_ is now known as geist[08:24:48] *** koonat_ has joined #haiku[08:26:25] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[08:26:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o PulkoMandy[08:27:40] *** HeTo_ is now known as HeTo[08:30:36] *** bigbluehat has joined #haiku[08:39:16] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[08:39:18] *** epigraph has quit IRC[08:50:16] *** Miyu has joined #haiku[08:53:36] *** venture38 has joined #haiku[08:56:24] *** orealis_ has joined #haiku[08:58:09] *** koonat_ has quit IRC[08:58:12] *** HeTo has quit IRC[08:58:19] *** netpsycho has quit IRC[08:58:23] *** orealis has quit IRC[08:58:26] *** venture37 has quit IRC[08:58:31] *** hackkitten has quit IRC[08:58:34] *** nopper has quit IRC[08:58:35] *** pisculichi has quit IRC[08:58:38] *** Zotan has quit IRC[08:58:43] *** orealis_ is now known as orealis[09:01:55] <HAIKU-irker005> jessicah-github.efi.master: [1 commit] https://github.com/jessicah/haiku/compare/066cdfaf31c8...4e48058d22d2[09:01:57] <HAIKU-irker005> 4e48058d22d2: Create .travis.yml[09:03:29] *** nopper has joined #haiku[09:03:40] *** netpsycho has joined #haiku[09:05:27] *** koonat_ has joined #haiku[09:06:04] *** pisculichi has joined #haiku[09:09:14] *** HeTo has joined #haiku[09:11:49] <jessicah> damn it stupid thing[09:11:50] *** nopper has quit IRC[09:11:50] *** nopper has joined #haiku[09:16:57] <HAIKU-irker005> jessicah-github.efi.master: [3 commits] https://github.com/jessicah/haiku/compare/4e48058d22d2...41db20124d60[09:16:58] <HAIKU-irker005> a83a4b24ff3d: Update .travis.yml[09:16:59] <HAIKU-irker005> 8cdbca15900b: Update .travis.yml[09:17:00] <HAIKU-irker005> 41db20124d60: Update .travis.yml[09:26:33] *** iMe has quit IRC[09:30:08] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[09:30:22] *** tqh has joined #haiku[09:30:22] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o tqh[09:31:08] *** NumberNoid is now known as zz_NumberNoid[09:35:15] *** venture38 is now known as venture37[09:35:42] *** venture37 has quit IRC[09:35:42] *** venture37 has joined #haiku[10:03:38] *** tqh has quit IRC[10:26:09] *** Miyu is now known as hackkitten[10:29:23] *** danboid has joined #haiku[10:30:18] <danboid> currently I have to open the bootmanager to enable fail-safe video every time I boot Haiku. How do I enable fail-safe video by default?[10:30:42] <danboid> I've installed the latest nightly to my SSD, of course[10:31:27] <luroh> there is some settings file you can edit, let me see if i can find out which one[10:32:10] <HAIKU-irker005> jessicah-github.efi.master: [66 commits] https://github.com/jessicah/haiku/compare/41db20124d60...3daadeeba072[10:32:11] <HAIKU-irker005> fe529b397e4a: UEFI: platform headers[10:32:12] <HAIKU-irker005> 08a163421b49: Add EFI platform header for files using EFI.[10:32:13] <HAIKU-irker005> a11f1404512a: Add EFI linker script for x86_64 from GNU-EFI project.[10:32:14] <HAIKU-irker005> 0eeb5c785320: Add x86_64 EFI relocation function from GNU-EFI project.[10:32:15] <HAIKU-irker005> 11980d6396f0: Remove efilib header, use extern "C" block.[10:32:16] <HAIKU-irker005> be3b644e4f13: Add x86_64 EFI start function from GNU-EFI project.[10:32:17] <HAIKU-irker005> 08a3b2765503: Working EFI application ('Hello World') and Jamfile.[10:32:18] <HAIKU-irker005> 085e04447117: As I understand MakeLocateDebug should be used on haiku.efi[10:32:19] <HAIKU-irker005> d6dd754231bd: Use boot_loader_$(TARGET_BOOT_PLATFORM).ld naming for linker script.[10:32:20] <HAIKU-irker005> ...[10:32:49] <danboid> luroh, OK, cool[10:33:35] <jessicah> danboid: the other option you can do is to blacklist the video driver it's trying to use[10:34:05] <jessicah> see http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/daily-tasks/blacklist-packages[10:34:06] <danboid> jessicah, OK, its an Intel GPU - 4600[10:34:23] <jessicah> you'd blacklist the intel_extreme and the intel_extreme.accelerant[10:34:38] <luroh> danboid: see /boot/home/config/settings/kernel/drivers/kernel[10:35:11] <danboid> Should they suport the 4600? I don't have to use fail-safe mode under alpha4.1[10:35:16] <luroh> i think there's a setting to force vesa in there (i don't have haiku handy atm)[10:35:30] <danboid> luroh, Thanks[10:35:46] <jessicah> danboid: mm, it should; but maybe it's just a bit newer than our driver handles?[10:36:06] <danboid> I've reported it as a bug already anyway[10:36:16] <jessicah> danboid: you can use listdev to find the PCI IDs for the gfx chip, etc.[10:36:23] <jessicah> yeah :)[10:36:27] *** tqh has joined #haiku[10:36:27] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o tqh[10:36:41] <danboid> jessicah, OK - I'll ad that to the bug[10:37:02] <luroh> danboid: that ticket could also do with a syslog[10:37:07] <jessicah> a copy of syslog is also worth adding[10:37:16] <PulkoMandy> if you get a black screen it means the driver is trying to handle it, but it fails[10:37:19] <danboid> OK, wil do[10:37:41] <PulkoMandy> I added the PCI ID of the modern intel cards to the driver and it worked immediately for me in some configurations (hdmi only)[10:37:42] <jessicah> delete your syslogs in /var/log/syslog; reboot, and let it fail; then reboot again and copy your syslogs and upload :)[10:37:56] <danboid> PulkoMandy, I get either that or a distorted mess that only fill a portion of the screen[10:38:33] <PulkoMandy> yes, the support is not complete for these cards[10:38:45] <PulkoMandy> if vesa works for you, just use that and blacklist the intel driver for now[10:38:49] <danboid> jessicah, Reboot again in fail-safe mode? Otherwise I think I ca copy the syslogs off under Linux[10:39:00] <jessicah> either way :)[10:39:20] <danboid> OK - 1 question down[10:39:28] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[10:39:32] <jessicah> copying from linux would give a cleaner syslog :p but devs can usually figure it out[10:39:35] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[10:39:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o waddlesplash[10:40:51] <danboid> Is there a guide to compiling FreeBSD network drivers for Haiku?[10:41:54] <jessicah> not that I'm aware of[10:42:46] <PulkoMandy> the process is basically "copy BSD sources in haiku tree; add to jamfile; jam drivername; hack until it works"[10:43:21] <PulkoMandy> currently we support drivers from FreeBSD9 only[10:43:47] <PulkoMandy> so, if your driver was added to FreeBSD only in a later version, you would need to update the compatibility library to match FreeBSD10[10:43:58] <PulkoMandy> and also update all the drivers to their versions in FreeBSD10[10:44:02] <danboid> PulkoMandy, Yes, jess told me that. I've found a backported F9 driver for my Intel Cenyrino 2230[10:44:12] <PulkoMandy> ok[10:44:25] <PulkoMandy> where are the sources? let's have a look at them[10:45:10] <danboid> PulkoMandy, https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/12006[10:45:31] <danboid> PulkoMandy, Thanks & good luck![10:46:50] <luroh> i suspect that its firmware is redistributable so it shouldn't affect install-wifi-firmwares.sh[10:47:14] <danboid> jessicah, About that Haiku Qt port of Libreoffice. Are there any packages yet?[10:47:37] <jessicah> not that I know of[10:47:39] <danboid> luroh, OK, good[10:47:45] <luroh> (i'm guessing it's a 4965 series device)[10:47:50] <PulkoMandy> the firmware is apparently part of the patch, even[10:47:57] <luroh> heh[10:48:00] <danboid> PulkoMandy, nice[10:48:25] <PulkoMandy> so, this is a backport to the already existing iwn driver, which means it isn't even a complete new driver[10:49:22] <HAIKU-irker005> jessicah-github.master: [3286 commits] https://github.com/jessicah/haiku/compare/00ec53678df7...570f75e708b7[10:49:23] <HAIKU-irker005> ced1540503eb: Rename haiku-depot to haikudepot[10:49:24] <HAIKU-irker005> 98ec9040a75b: Update translations from Pootle[10:49:25] <HAIKU-irker005> bd759d672769: kernel/x86_64: try to inline physical page mapper functions[10:49:26] <HAIKU-irker005> b5c2333d5063: kernel/x86_64: use C++11 atomics in X86PagingMethod64Bit[10:49:27] <HAIKU-irker005> 4717ad73e770: kernel/x86_64: help gcc with devirtualization[10:49:28] <HAIKU-irker005> 909193600aa1: xhci: build fix[10:49:29] <HAIKU-irker005> 93473f88084b: Update Pe to newest version in all x86-architectures.[10:49:30] <HAIKU-irker005> 69b612aa4449: update gcc for x86 and x86_64[10:49:31] <HAIKU-irker005> 385137e2d968: Update userguide translations[10:49:32] <HAIKU-irker005> ...[10:49:35] <danboid> jessicah, Are the various components (Write, Calc etc) building? Any links?[10:49:36] <PulkoMandy> you could try applying the patch to src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network/wlan/iprowifi4965/dev/iwn[10:50:10] <jessicah> danboid: I have no idea[10:50:37] <danboid> jessicah, So nothing has been released yet, no public git etc[10:50:41] <jessicah> grr; so much messing about with branches[10:50:47] <jessicah> danboid: I don't think so, no[10:51:12] <danboid> PulkoMandy, I'll give that a go soon[10:51:14] <jessicah> git gets really weird sometimes[10:52:04] <PulkoMandy> danboid: the glue.c in src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network/wlan/iprowifi4965 will need some updates as well[10:52:21] <PulkoMandy> to add the device id and map it to the firmware file name. This shouldn't be too hard[10:52:51] <danboid> PulkoMandy, I'm no C coder but I think I can handle that much[10:54:32] <danboid> Also, why might my external USB (NTFS formatted drive) work under safe mode but not in normal mode? That seems backwards to me[10:55:21] <danboid> USB 3 if it matters[10:56:28] <danboid> bit of an odd one, I realise[10:56:57] <danboid> I need to verify thats still the case now I've insalled to HD[10:57:16] <luroh> comparing the two syslogs may reveal the answer[10:57:40] <danboid> I coud access my USB drive when I booted off USB in safe mode, so I'm presuming it'll do the same now I've installed[10:58:04] <danboid> luroh, OK[10:59:39] <danboid> Does Haiku support SATA3 + TRIM?[11:00:46] <luroh> not sure trim is enabled, last i checked it suffered from a rather nasty bug potentially causing data loss[11:01:06] <danboid> youch![11:01:38] <danboid> should it make full use of SATA3 IO though?[11:01:53] <luroh> https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/10336[11:02:35] <luroh> not sure about that, but at least i haven't heard otherwise[11:03:59] <danboid> One more question today before I let you guys get on with your lives. Where's the ARM port up to? Does it boot into Appserver?[11:05:09] <danboid> I was surprised to see here is an m68k port too! Wow! :)[11:06:19] <luroh> i think the arm bootloader stuff has mostly been sorted and it's now crashing in the kernel somewhere[11:06:32] <luroh> that said, i haven't been keeping close attention[11:07:08] <danboid> It'd be very cool to run it on my BananaPi one day, maybe?[11:07:36] <luroh> maybe, but i wouldn't get my hopes up[11:07:44] <danboid> I'm not! :)[11:08:00] <luroh> the m68k and arm ports have been around for years[11:08:31] <danboid> I presume m68k is in a similar or worse state to the ARM port[11:09:05] <danboid> not that I've still got anything to run that on[11:09:19] <danboid> apart from qemu, maybe[11:09:28] <luroh> there's also a ppc port[11:10:01] <danboid> Oh yeah! Now I do still have an old eMac that'd love to run Haiku[11:10:12] <danboid> Similar story to ARM I'd imagine?[11:10:26] <luroh> yup[11:10:53] *** kurain has quit IRC[11:10:54] <danboid> x86-64 is massively more important of course[11:11:19] <luroh> for the foreseeable future, at least[11:11:45] <danboid> ARM is eating its lunch though[11:12:29][11:12:33] <luroh> still a different segment, but the gap is closing[11:12:59] <danboid> The more recent ARM CPUs compete well with i3s[11:13:17] <danboid> Like the one of that Nvidia board[11:13:23] <danboid> on that[11:13:33] *** zz_NumberNoid is now known as NumberNoid[11:14:08] <luroh> when it comes to raw cpu power, perhaps[11:14:30] <luroh> but still a long way from replacing what's inside my laptop[11:14:33] <jessicah> biggest problem with ARM, IMO, is amount of board-specific setup that's required[11:14:51] * danboid Is glad Intel have some kind of competition[11:15:00] <jessicah> gives ARM heaps of flexibility; but more headache for general OS category[11:15:37] <danboid> yes, ARM CPUs etc are a minefield. A version number hellhole[11:16:24] *** Ptrus has quit IRC[11:16:37] <jessicah> fix something on ARM for one board, breaks it for another board :p[11:16:54] *** Ptrus has joined #haiku[11:19:32] <danboid> So apart from the obvious (Haiku, FreeBSD and the Linux family) are you guys interested in any other alternative OSs?[11:20:07] <danboid> To the point that you actively use and/or develop for any?[11:20:07] <PulkoMandy> not enough time to watch all of them :)[11:20:46] <danboid> PulkoMandy, Of course! I gave up on distrowatch years ago[11:21:14] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[11:21:38] <danboid> Anyone tried OpenIndiana or ReactOS, for example?[11:21:43] <PulkoMandy> we shared some resources with ReactOS and AROS in the past[11:22:03] <luroh> yes, i check out reactos from time to time and i try to keep an eye on wine development but that's pretty much it these days[11:22:06] <PulkoMandy> (collaboration on USB stack development, OpenGL stuff, also sharing a booth at some conferences)[11:22:12] <danboid> I've still not tried AROS. I'm an ex-Amiga guy[11:22:45] <PulkoMandy> we were a member of something called "Rosetta Project" to help collaboration between all the different OSes but it unfortunately didn't really work[11:22:54] <danboid> Although I've heard if you want to run native AROS on x86, it only supports ancient PCI VGA cards?[11:23:13] <danboid> Nvida ones[11:23:26] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[11:23:28] <PulkoMandy> I have no idea about the current state of AROS. Last time I tried booting it was probably 2006 or so[11:24:46] <danboid> I hate to ask it, but can you comment on a stable Haiku release. I presume there is a list of bugs that need to be squashed first? Hw about a new alpha or a beta release?[11:25:27] <jessicah> the new release discussion has been rehashed quite a few times already[11:25:40] <jessicah> with plans, and new plans, and time stretching out forever :p[11:25:48] <danboid> :D[11:26:09] <jessicah> I think our biggest issue is a lack of infrastructure and automatic builds of packages[11:26:12] <danboid> You have to do a lot more than most other free OS projects though[11:26:30] <danboid> esp. regular Linux dostros[11:26:36] <danboid> distros[11:26:38] <danboid> :)[11:27:07] <danboid> DOStros? Is that a thing? Probably. Customised FreeDOS-based distros - DOStros![11:27:56] <PulkoMandy> we have a roadmap[11:28:01] <danboid> Whas the worst bug or missing feature now?[11:28:08] <PulkoMandy> https://dev.haiku-os.org/roadmap[11:28:27] <PulkoMandy> and we have a chart showing how we are not making progress on it: http://haiku.tips/release-burndown-chart/[11:29:09] <PulkoMandy> (well, actually, this month we are making some progress it seems)[11:30:08] <danboid> 44 more tickets until beta doesn't sound that bad but god knows whats in those 44 tickets[11:30:33] <danboid> 'fix the world'[11:30:51] <danboid> 'Compatibility with all hardware ever' etc[11:30:53] <PulkoMandy> yes, only the difficult things are left :)[11:31:25] <danboid> thats what I thought[11:32:09] <PulkoMandy> we could probably remove the "hardware compatibility" stuff from it[11:32:24] <PulkoMandy> (with the usual rule "did this work on BeOS?")[11:32:29] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[11:32:59] <danboid> You can't seriously use that as a rule, 15/20 years later, surely?[11:33:32] <danboid> BeOS hardware is totally irrelevant to everyone other than retro computing fans now[11:33:48] <luroh> if the alternative is no release, sure[11:33:58] <PulkoMandy> yes, the rule is not for "don't do it", it's for "this shouldn't delay the next release further than it already is"[11:34:09] <luroh> right[11:34:11] <PulkoMandy> (people will probably fix the issues anyway if it gets in the way)[11:34:14] <danboid> You need to have sensible goals, for sure, but that isnt one[11:34:54] <PulkoMandy> the goal is to try to get our R1 release out. For this one we set a goal of being BeOS-compatible[11:35:03] <danboid> (the BeOS hardware thing)[11:35:06] <PulkoMandy> each time we added something to this goal, it delayed the release by about 2 years[11:35:27] <PulkoMandy> so basically we could have released it in 2010 or so, without wifi and package management[11:36:10] <PulkoMandy> if we continue this way we will never release anything[11:36:33] <PulkoMandy> so, we must set strict rules in what should delay the next release. And hardware compatibility isn't one of these things[11:36:41] <danboid> wifi is a must have in the 21st century - OSX doesn't really have a package manager (ignoring brew etc as they're not official) and nor does Windows[11:37:12] <PulkoMandy> it is for mainstream OSes. And it could have been finished later[11:37:26] <PulkoMandy> the result of this would not be less features, but more frequent releases, I think[11:37:27] <danboid> I think most normal users ca live without package maagement. Its only Linux users who might expect that[11:37:49] <PulkoMandy> you can decide to not use it[11:37:55] <PulkoMandy> if that makes you happy :)[11:38:06] <danboid> Nah, I want a package manager[11:38:21] <danboid> but just saying about 'normal people'[11:38:38] <danboid> non OS geeks[11:38:55] <luroh> it was voted upon, 59% thought PM was a "must have"[11:39:03] <danboid> OK one last q before I leave you alone, I promise[11:39:10] <danboid> Chromium port?[11:39:26] <PulkoMandy> no one working on that as far as I know[11:39:51] <danboid> I wonder if it'll be easier now its not using GTK?[11:40:04] <PulkoMandy> maybe[11:40:29] <PulkoMandy> I think my time is better used on other things, so I'm waiting for someone else to do it :)[11:41:08] <tqh> OS X and Windows both have ways of doing system upgrades. So not entirely true.[11:41:13] <danboid> Yep. Cool apps can come after the OS is in good shape[11:49:40] <danboid> OK I'll rebot and get those logs for the Inte GFX bugg report now[11:49:48] <danboid> Thanks for your help guys![11:50:04] <danboid> bye[11:50:14] *** danboid has quit IRC[11:52:53] *** js has quit IRC[11:54:38] <jessicah> actually, package management is new in Windows 10 :p[12:00:10] *** js has joined #haiku[12:00:10] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o js[12:03:50] *** danboid has joined #haiku[12:04:28] <danboid> I just tried uploading my syslog as an attachment to my bug report but 'Mollom says content is spam'. Really?[12:04:32] <HAIKU-irker005> haiku.master: janus * hrev49105 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=7bfb4a1eb8a9+%5E10d338445218[12:04:33] <HAIKU-irker005> 7bfb4a1eb8a9: DataTranslations: use layout, standard format.[12:04:34] <danboid> Do I need to zip it?[12:04:53] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[12:05:09] <danboid> I can't believe your bug tracker doesn't accept syslog files![12:05:19] <luroh> danboid: any captcha presented to you?[12:05:36] <luroh> the bug tracker has a spam filter[12:06:06] <luroh> we get 1000+ spam attempts every day[12:06:13] <danboid> luroh, Yes, I entered the captcha but then it said 'No file uploaded'[12:06:20] <danboid> I'll try again[12:06:44] <luroh> yes, please[12:06:56] <luroh> the attachment seemed to be missing[12:07:37] <danboid> OK, it worked on my second attempt[12:07:43] <luroh> great[12:09:45] *** m4tx has joined #haiku[12:13:12] <luroh> danboid: looks like https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/11268[12:13:37] <luroh> you have the same device ID, 8086:0416[12:13:47] *** js has quit IRC[12:14:01] *** js has joined #haiku[12:14:01] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o js[12:16:45] <danboid> luroh, OK. Hopefully it'll get looked at soon. How much difference does using the proper Intel driver make over using VESA?[12:17:15] <luroh> well, it may restrict the amout of resolutions you get to choose from[12:17:28] <luroh> performance wise it doesn't make any difference though[12:17:36] <luroh> amount*[12:18:21] <danboid> thought that might be the case. Do any drivers have any GL accel or hardware video decoding support yet?[12:18:37] <luroh> nope[12:19:24] *** danboid has quit IRC[12:22:19] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[12:27:28] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[12:27:28] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o PulkoMandy[12:27:35] *** kurain has joined #haiku[12:57:42] *** Vidiot_ has quit IRC[13:16:35] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[13:35:46] *** ASmith42 has joined #haiku[13:41:52] *** ASmith42 has left #haiku[13:59:09] <HAIKU-irker005> haiku.master: janus * hrev49106 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=a482dbd51e24+%5E7bfb4a1eb8a9[13:59:10] <HAIKU-irker005> a482dbd51e24: DataTranslations: Fix duplicate fields.[14:03:17] *** m4tx has quit IRC[14:12:29] *** oblo has joined #haiku[14:15:08] *** kcj has quit IRC[14:32:05] *** kurain has quit IRC[14:32:45] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[14:38:29] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[15:05:33] <HAIKU-irker005> haiku.master: pulkomandy * hrev49107 [2 commits] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=94d0d4237277+%5Ea482dbd51e24[15:05:34] <HAIKU-irker005> 2b7f655db041: Update boost for ICU 55 upgrade.[15:05:35] <HAIKU-irker005> 94d0d4237277: HaikuWebKit 1.4.11.[15:07:12] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[15:08:35] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[15:17:26] *** hmstrmn has joined #haiku[15:19:00] *** ir2ivps8 has joined #haiku[15:27:54] *** Vidiot_ has joined #haiku[15:30:15] *** Diver has joined #haiku[15:30:15] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Diver[15:40:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o puckipedia[15:46:33] *** pjub has joined #haiku[15:52:11] *** nighty-_ has joined #haiku[15:59:53] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[16:00:09] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[16:01:22] <HAIKU-Buildbot> build #1653 of haiku-master-x86_gcc2_hybrid is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.haiku-os.org/builders/haiku-master-x86_gcc2_hybrid/builds/1653[16:02:58] *** _3dEyes has quit IRC[16:06:53] *** mattlacey has joined #haiku[16:27:00] *** mattlacey has quit IRC[16:30:20] *** Vidiot_ has quit IRC[16:38:13] <Carl_Miller> Hi[16:49:13] *** wesbluemarine has joined #haiku[17:02:11] <HAIKU-irker005> jessicah-github.efi.master: [59 commits] https://github.com/jessicah/haiku/compare/3daadeeba072...d6042b383ff8[17:02:12] <HAIKU-irker005> 6e271bf31a96: UEFI: platform headers[17:02:13] <HAIKU-irker005> abd472e2fec3: Add EFI linker script for x86_64 from GNU-EFI project.[17:02:14] <HAIKU-irker005> 759dceb38e71: Add x86_64 EFI relocation function from GNU-EFI project.[17:02:15] <HAIKU-irker005> c244a2b916ab: Remove efilib header, use extern "C" block.[17:02:16] <HAIKU-irker005> 0ad13bf1a7c3: Add x86_64 EFI start function from GNU-EFI project.[17:02:17] <HAIKU-irker005> 26eb8953d970: Working EFI application ('Hello World') and Jamfile.[17:02:18] <HAIKU-irker005> c0c550e2da70: As I understand MakeLocateDebug should be used on haiku.efi[17:02:19] <HAIKU-irker005> f7e7c73ad957: Set bios_ia32 only if no other boot platform is set.[17:02:20] <HAIKU-irker005> 3640af569980: Use boot_loader_$(TARGET_BOOT_PLATFORM).ld naming for linker script.[17:02:21] <HAIKU-irker005> ...[17:02:43] <jessicah> hi Carl_Miller[17:03:36] <Carl_Miller> Hi. :|[17:03:55] <jessicah> what's up?[17:04:42] <jessicah> hmm, sleepytime, sorry[17:04:48] <jessicah> night night![17:04:56] <Carl_Miller> Not much, still miffed that the official party line on "Networking isn't, what do?" is "qq moar" >_>[17:11:10] *** pjub has quit IRC[17:11:16] <luroh> not sure what that means but have you found or logged a ticket?[17:11:48] <luroh> with listdev and syslog[17:12:12] <PulkoMandy> yes, he did, we need to backport some changes from a patch to FreeBSD9 for the iwn driver[17:12:43] <luroh> oh, danboid == Carl_Miller?[17:14:32] <Carl_Miller> Who's danboid?[17:15:08] <luroh> not you, apparently ;)[17:15:11] <Carl_Miller> :P[17:15:14] <Carl_Miller> PulkoMandy: Will that fix the problems I'm having or?[17:15:44] <luroh> so... we'd need a ticket with a syslog and the output of listdev attached[17:16:54] <Carl_Miller> How do I get those outputs? /is a noob[17:17:00] <PulkoMandy> mh, maybe I'm mixing up people then?[17:17:01] <PulkoMandy> sorry[17:17:03] <Carl_Miller> Ah[17:17:27] <PulkoMandy> so yes, please fill a ticket with the relevant info and we can work from there[17:18:24] <luroh> Carl_Miller: https://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/ReportingBugs[17:19:28] <Carl_Miller> Thanks[17:20:18] <luroh> syslog and listdev would be enough for now, there is other stuff listed on that page that you don't need to worry about (at least for now)[17:28:47] *** johndrinkwater has quit IRC[17:29:09] *** johndrinkwater has joined #haiku[17:41:34] *** Bodhi has joined #haiku[17:49:12] *** Zotan has joined #haiku[17:57:58] <HAIKU-irker005> haiku.master: pulkomandy * hrev49108 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=9ea04c4dc7c4+%5E94d0d4237277[17:57:58] <HAIKU-irker005> 9ea04c4dc7c4: Add package for VLC 0.8.6i.[18:12:13] *** Nach0z_ has 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*** Bodhi has quit IRC[18:23:02] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[18:23:02] *** js has quit IRC[18:23:06] *** HeTo has quit IRC[18:23:15] *** computerquip has quit IRC[18:23:16] *** schily___ has quit IRC[18:23:20] *** jstressman has quit IRC[18:23:24] *** Qatz has quit IRC[18:23:30] *** Bigcheese has quit IRC[18:23:43] *** yosafbridge has quit IRC[18:23:47] *** JohnX- has quit IRC[18:23:51] *** Sue has quit IRC[18:23:55] *** gbonvehi has quit IRC[18:24:03] *** Gareth has quit IRC[18:24:03] *** 92AAA4LG3 is now known as PulkoMandy[18:24:39] *** tqh2 has joined #haiku[18:24:39] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o tqh2[18:26:05] *** hagen has joined #haiku[18:28:19] *** tqh has quit IRC[18:29:35] *** simpbrain has joined #haiku[18:29:40] *** DingoSaar has quit IRC[18:30:08] *** Bodhi has joined #haiku[18:32:06] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[18:32:06] *** epigraph has quit IRC[18:32:37] *** HAIKU-Buildbot has quit IRC[18:32:48] *** akshay1994_ has joined #haiku[18:32:52] *** HAIKU-Buildbot has joined #haiku[18:32:52] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v HAIKU-Buildbot[18:33:25] *** FreeFull_ has joined #haiku[18:33:39] *** FreeFull_ has quit IRC[18:33:39] *** FreeFull_ has joined #haiku[18:33:49] *** daniele_athome has quit IRC[18:34:01] *** [JJ]Albert has quit IRC[18:34:03] *** FreeFull has quit IRC[18:34:07] *** akshay1994 has quit IRC[18:34:12] *** [JJ]Albert has joined #haiku[18:36:30] *** skbot4 has quit IRC[18:36:48] *** soakbot has joined #haiku[18:36:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v soakbot[18:36:57] *** daniele_athome has joined #haiku[18:40:49] *** wesbluemarine has quit IRC[18:46:10] *** HeTo has joined #haiku[18:46:10] *** js has joined #haiku[18:46:11] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o js[18:46:19] *** Bigcheese has joined #haiku[18:46:22] *** JohnX has joined #haiku[18:46:23] *** Qatz has joined #haiku[18:46:27] *** computerquip has joined #haiku[18:46:49] *** Diver has quit IRC[18:46:54] *** jstressman has joined #haiku[18:47:20] *** gbonvehi has joined #haiku[18:48:26] <luroh> PulkoMandy: would you be interested in a VLC crash report, or is crashing at launch a known problem?[18:48:49] <PulkoMandy> I didn't test it today - just uploading what I have[18:48:58] <PulkoMandy> so yes, please open a bugreport at haikuports[18:49:04] <luroh> ok[18:58:32] <Carl_Miller> Haiku is a neat / operating system, and / it's snowing on Mt Fuji[18:58:33] <Carl_Miller> BBL[18:58:41] *** Carl_Miller has quit IRC[19:13:47] *** FreeFull_ is now known as FreeFull[19:14:07] <HAIKU-irker005> haiku.master: janus * hrev49109 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=3c7469c1c154+%5E9ea04c4dc7c4[19:14:08] <HAIKU-irker005> 3c7469c1c154: DataTranslations: Put the dragged translators in the nonpackage dir.[19:14:08] *** pemdp has joined #haiku[19:14:11] <pemdp> Hi[19:18:05] <PulkoMandy> hi[19:19:51] *** [r4] has quit IRC[19:20:21] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[19:20:27] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[19:20:27] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o waddlesplash[19:21:09] *** Vidiot_ has joined #haiku[19:23:11] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[19:23:11] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o humdinger[19:23:57] <HAIKU-irker005> haiku.master: pulkomandy * hrev49110 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=296867b5cf23+%5E3c7469c1c154[19:23:58] <HAIKU-irker005> 296867b5cf23: Add CriticalMass and update cmake.[19:24:04] *** Diver has joined #haiku[19:24:04] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Diver[19:26:04] <pemdp> I have forked haiku on Github. Now when building it fails on the determine_haiku_revision script with the message: "Error: you are using a Haiku clone without tags, please set". Is this error caused by the fork?[19:26:48] <hamishm> yes - the github mirror doesn't have tags[19:26:54] *** rNyhus has joined #haiku[19:26:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o rNyhus[19:27:09] <hamishm> (because it kills the performance of the github interface)[19:27:27] <PulkoMandy> you need to manually set the hrev you are building (or some made up tag) in that case[19:28:03] <pemdp> oh I see[19:28:44] <luroh> pemdp: there's information in UserBuildConfig.ReadMe on how to set it manually[19:29:00] <pemdp> luroh, thanks[19:29:05] <Timothy_1u> can we like push only the latest tag to make building possible?[19:29:10] <Timothy_1u> while removing the old ones[19:29:10] *** Max-Might has joined #haiku[19:29:37] <PulkoMandy> yes, this could work[19:29:50] <PulkoMandy> can you open a bugreport about it? :)[19:30:06] <Timothy_1u> sure[19:30:12] <Timothy_1u> when i have time that is :)[19:30:17] <Timothy_1u> gtg[19:31:52] *** rNyhus has quit IRC[19:33:56] *** epigraph has joined #haiku[19:35:01] *** oblo has quit IRC[19:40:30] *** epigraph has quit IRC[19:40:36] *** oblo has joined #haiku[19:43:20] *** hagen has quit IRC[19:43:51] *** DingoSaar has joined #haiku[19:49:52] *** ledNaro has joined #haiku[19:55:36] <PulkoMandy> Commit statistics for Haiku: http://pulkomandy.tk/stats-201504/[20:00:21] <PulkoMandy> monthly activity report: https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/pulkomandy/2015-04-25_haiku_monthly_activity_report_042014[20:02:47] <Max-Might> average 270.3 commits per author <- number of commits / number of authors is not that meaningful i think[20:04:18] <Max-Might> PulkoMandy, there is a link to 192.168.1.1 in the blog post :)[20:04:24] <PulkoMandy> oops[20:04:52] <luroh> the first link also doesn't work (gitstats)[20:05:15] <PulkoMandy> both fixed, thanks[20:05:32] <PulkoMandy> Max-Might: you can open a bug report at gitstats or suggest something better I could use[20:05:58] <PulkoMandy> (it's also quite slow, took most of the day to process our whole git history - for next month I'll probably generate stats over only one year)[20:08:21] <HAIKU-irker005> haiku.master: pulkomandy * hrev49111 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=32cc744b8c72+%5E296867b5cf23[20:08:21] <HAIKU-irker005> 32cc744b8c72: Add dosbox and libedit_x86.[20:08:59] <luroh> maybe the encoding could be adjusted, now it lists names like Sundström and Jürgen[20:09:40] <luroh> if i manually set it to unicode, that seems to work[20:10:07] *** Carl_Miller has joined #haiku[20:18:11] *** DingoSaar has quit IRC[20:18:15] *** [JJ]Albert has quit IRC[20:18:15] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[20:23:25] *** DingoSaar has joined #haiku[20:23:39] <Carl_Miller> https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/12009 ._.[20:29:01] *** Diver1 has joined #haiku[20:29:01] *** Diver has quit IRC[20:36:27] *** happy-dude has quit IRC[20:43:07] *** netpsycho has quit IRC[20:48:38] <jessicah> pemdp: you can add a second remote to fetch tags from too[20:49:46] <jessicah> git remote add upstream https://git.haiku-os.org/haiku ; git fetch --all --tags[20:51:07] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[20:51:07] *** tepper.freenode.net sets mode: +o PulkoMandy[21:01:14] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[21:08:37] *** munchaus1n is now known as munchausen[21:11:13] <Carl_Miller> https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/12010 >~<[21:11:26] <pemdp> Thanks for the tip Jessica[21:12:25] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[21:12:25] *** tepper.freenode.net sets mode: +o PulkoMandy[21:12:46] <Carl_Miller> PulkoMandy wb[21:13:25] *** Zevs has joined #haiku[21:20:38] *** humdinger has quit IRC[21:22:17] *** oblo has quit IRC[21:26:21] *** nighty-_ has quit IRC[21:36:44] <Carl_Miller> How well supported is the USB 2.0 eMac in Haiku?[21:37:44] *** oblo has joined #haiku[21:38:04] <e1z0> not well i think[21:38:17] <Carl_Miller> :/[21:39:00] <e1z0> you man eMac ppc ?[21:39:15] <e1z0> ppc platform is not supported yet[21:48:22] <Carl_Miller> :([21:52:34] *** nighty-_ has joined #haiku[22:00:56] *** Zevs has quit IRC[22:01:18] *** soakbot is now known as Guest57830[22:01:19] *** skbot214 has joined #haiku[22:01:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v skbot214[22:01:20] *** skbot214 is now known as skbot2141[22:02:32] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[22:02:38] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[22:02:38] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o waddlesplash[22:07:01] *** Guest57830 has quit IRC[22:10:15] *** axeld has joined #haiku[22:10:16] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o axeld[22:13:24] <HAIKU-irker005> haiku.master: pulkomandy * hrev49112 [1 commit] http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/log/?qt=range&q=eb5fc5a7c10a+%5E32cc744b8c72[22:13:25] <HAIKU-irker005> eb5fc5a7c10a: Update qt4 packages for icu 55.1.[22:14:21] *** NumberNoid is now known as zz_NumberNoid[22:34:22] *** zz_NumberNoid is now known as NumberNoid[22:44:32] *** waddlesplash has quit IRC[22:44:39] *** waddlesplash has joined #haiku[22:44:39] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o waddlesplash[22:45:42] *** Vidiot_ has quit IRC[22:51:16] *** Diver1 has quit IRC[22:51:37] *** Diver has joined #haiku[22:51:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Diver[22:58:23] *** Vidiot_ has joined #haiku[23:04:09] *** tqh2 is now known as tqh[23:11:44] <bbjimmy> new yab version ... https://bitbucket.org/haikuports/haikuports/pull-request/522/yab-1745-yab-ide-2244[23:15:22] *** axeld has quit IRC[23:16:49] *** Ptrus has quit IRC[23:17:19] *** Ptrus has joined #haiku[23:23:53] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:24:34] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[23:39:13] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[23:39:39] <bbjimmy> just updated again ... Web+ still won't launch[23:42:15] <Carl_Miller> :([23:42:41] <Carl_Miller> Web+ launches for me, but I can't load any pages; it's probably my network equipment[23:43:12] <bbjimmy> Missing symbol: _ZNK14BMseeageFormat6FormatER7BStringx[23:44:20] <bbjimmy> hrev48852[23:44:41] *** Qatz is now known as SpicyShibe[23:44:42] <Carl_Miller> That rev's a few days old now, at least[23:44:51] <bbjimmy> Qupzilla works ok[23:46:27] <bbjimmy> hmmm Why didn't it update?[23:46:48] <bbjimmy> sb 49112[23:46:50] *** oblo has quit IRC[23:55:03] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[23:59:36] *** pemdp has quit IRC