September 1, 2012 
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September 1, 2012 [00:07:18] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:26:41] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[00:28:54] *** Beretta021 has joined #haiku[00:30:32] *** Tsyesika has quit IRC[00:30:52] *** Tsyesika has joined #haiku[00:37:31] *** Negr0_VoP2P has quit IRC[00:41:01] <daedaluz> why haiku still doesn't support WPA2?[00:41:13] <Tsyesika> it does doesn't it? :S[00:41:46] <daedaluz> it does?[00:42:03] <Tsyesika> i think so[00:42:06] <Tsyesika> i'm not 100%[00:42:21] <Tsyesika> it's got wpa_supplicant that can handle WPA2 right?[00:51:34] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[00:52:39] *** Negr0_VoP2P has joined #haiku[00:53:24] *** happy4crazy has quit IRC[00:57:31] *** slubman has quit IRC[01:02:17] *** stpere has joined #haiku[01:05:34] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[01:15:54] <jessicah> it supports WPA2[01:16:01] <jessicah> it doesn't support WPA/WPA2 Enterprise[01:16:20] <Tsyesika> i thought it did[01:16:31] <jessicah> show me where you can add your username[01:16:45] <jessicah> there's a ticket for it[01:17:05] <AlienSoldier> enterprise? what is this, an ecryption with more bit?[01:17:45] <jessicah> requires username+password authentication[01:17:50] <AlienSoldier> ok[01:18:18] <jessicah> https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/8850[01:19:38] <jessicah> many of the auth protocols that can be used could also be shared with ppp/pptp protocols too[01:19:51] *** pseudomind has joined #haiku[01:20:16] <Tsyesika> jessicah i don't need to query trac :P I just ask you :P[01:20:23] <jessicah> lol[01:21:13] <jessicah> and this is why i wanted my new job title to be "systems sorceress"[01:21:50] <Tsyesika> :P[01:22:24] <jessicah> i wonder when my job title is going to change though...[01:22:39] <jessicah> i prolly get paid a lot for what my job title is, at least in this area[01:22:47] <jessicah> User Support Analyst =/[01:23:02] <Tsyesika> huh[01:23:19] <Tsyesika> you analyse what users want support on or something?[01:23:36] <jessicah> it's a weird and stupid title[01:23:53] <jessicah> unfortunately, new title isn't allowed to have engineer in it for completely irrational reasons[01:24:03] <jessicah> "it seems like too much of a jump to go from analyst to engineer"[01:24:13] <Tsyesika> what[01:24:16] <jessicah> no practical reason[01:24:21] <jessicah> our CIO is a fucking dick[01:24:27] <jessicah> sorry for the language[01:24:28] <Tsyesika> how about using logic of... you're an engineer[01:24:32] <jessicah> but he so is[01:24:42] <jessicah> that's too rational[01:24:52] <Tsyesika> :P[01:24:58] <jessicah> managers never use rational thought[01:25:13] <jessicah> especially at our university -_-[01:25:27] <Tsyesika> :([01:25:45] <Tsyesika> you'd think universities would be the home of rational thought[01:26:40] <jessicah> not any more[01:26:43] <Tsyesika> :([01:26:56] <jessicah> heck, we're going to update our incident management system[01:27:06] <jessicah> but not to the latest version[01:27:13] <jessicah> because it's "too much of a jump"[01:27:26] <jessicah> the system when it was put in as a new system was already several years out of date[01:27:27] <Tsyesika> really[01:27:37] <Tsyesika> this is moronic[01:27:44] <jessicah> so we're going to the next "several years out of date" version[01:28:11] <jessicah> the current one has a user interface akin to something out of windows 3.x[01:28:22] <Tsyesika> :P[01:28:29] <Tsyesika> they should employ me to the the CIO[01:28:31] <jessicah> and drop down boxes... what are drop down boxes?[01:30:05] <jessicah> i'm apalled and what we're forced to work with[01:30:09] <Tsyesika> yeh i need to be the CIO :P[01:30:15] <jessicah> IT should be cutting edge[01:30:22] <jessicah> =/[01:30:25] <Tsyesika> and i'll just be rational[01:30:26] <Tsyesika> :P[01:30:45] <Tsyesika> jessicah i'm glad i won't be coming into the IT industry[01:31:10] * jessicah sighs[01:31:18] <jessicah> i hate my job a lot lately[01:31:25] <Tsyesika> :([01:31:35] <Tsyesika> what does the future look like?[01:31:43] <jessicah> grim[01:32:04] <Tsyesika> sorry to hear that[01:32:19] <Tsyesika> many jobs up for grabs?[01:32:50] <jessicah> i dunno[01:33:00] <jessicah> i haven't been looking[01:33:13] <Tsyesika> hmm[01:33:49] <Tsyesika> maybe just have a browse?[01:33:53] <Tsyesika> see if anything takes your eye[01:34:20] <jessicah> i'm still kind of happy where i am[01:34:41] <Tsyesika> oh right[01:34:43] <stpere> jessicah, I get those phases of "meh." about once a month at my job.[01:35:03] <stpere> eventually, you learn to just think "fuck it."[01:35:13] <stpere> sorry for the language :P[01:35:14] <jessicah> yeah...[01:36:03] <jessicah> it just used to be an awesome job[01:36:35] <Tsyesika> :([01:38:12] * Tsyesika huggles jessicah[01:40:02] <daedaluz> IT is not dead, I mean computers and associated software are the glue which keeps the modern society together damnit[01:42:05] <Tsyesika> who said IT was dead[01:42:30] *** bjz has joined #haiku[01:43:08] <daedaluz> <Tsyesika> jessicah i'm glad i won't be coming into the IT industry[01:43:21] <daedaluz> <Tsyesika> what does the future look like?[01:43:22] <daedaluz> <jessicah> grim[01:43:24] <jessicah> she's doing chemistry[01:43:30] <Tsyesika> ^ +1[01:43:45] <daedaluz> well that's poopers[01:44:16] <Tsyesika> and the grim thing wasn't about the IT industry it was about her specific job :P[01:45:28] <daedaluz> stop talking out of context I am of confuse now :([01:45:43] <Tsyesika> out of context? :P[01:45:44] <jessicah> oh, speaking about ridiculousness of our IT department/uni[01:46:02] <jessicah> we switched to HP networking gear, when all our network engineers are cisco certified (we used to be cisco)[01:46:25] *** oco2 has quit IRC[01:46:33] <jessicah> and now that we run HP gear, most, if not all, of our network engineers are unfamiliar with the HP command stack[01:46:55] <jessicah> so they have to refer to manuals to make changes to network gear[01:47:05] *** Negr0_VoP2P has quit IRC[01:47:08] <jessicah> where they would've known the right thing to do if it were cisco[01:47:54] *** happy4crazy has quit IRC[01:47:59] <jessicah> multi-million dollar network upgrade to a system we can't even support properly[01:48:19] <jessicah> (and we have a HUGE amount of network problems)[01:48:38] <daedaluz> business as usual[01:48:45] <Tsyesika> wow[01:49:30] <jessicah> daedaluz: business as usual is a network that can't even dish out dhcp leases properly?[01:51:22] <jessicah> it's been 20 minutes, and so far only managed to pxe boot 6 out of 10[01:51:30] <daedaluz> yes, upper management from business schools never understands a jack shit about technical implementations aside from "oh on paper this'll be two kelobittys faster so we save a million" and thus corporations have problems everywhere[01:51:37] <daedaluz> so, business as usual[01:51:43] <jessicah> it can only handle pxe booting 1-2 clients simultaneously[01:52:01] <Tsyesika> pxe is a prefix in na'vi (just saying) :P[01:52:02] <jessicah> we used to be able to pxe boot a lab of 30 computers simultaneously in less time =/[01:52:24] <jessicah> daedaluz: oh yeah =/[01:52:47] <jessicah> oh, 5/10[01:52:53] <jessicah> one of them gave up[01:53:33] <Tsyesika> sounds fun jessicah[01:53:38] <jessicah> our network upgrade has been a downgrade of epic proportions ;([01:53:59] <jessicah> and seriously, HP? :p[01:54:06] <Tsyesika> who's decision was that... the wonderful CIO's again?[01:54:16] <jessicah> prolly[01:54:44] <jessicah> okies[01:54:49] * jessicah stops grumbling[01:55:38] <Tsyesika> :P[01:55:52] * Tsyesika huggles and hands jessicah her teddy[01:56:57] <jessicah> :)[01:59:52] <stpere> sounds familiar :P[02:00:08] <stpere> here it's all that Novell shit that I hope we get rid of[02:01:36] <daedaluz> lol Novell[02:01:38] <jessicah> it's just terribly ironic how everything worked well, and now it doesn't[02:01:56] <daedaluz> opensuse 12.1 wanted root password to setup wlan key[02:02:06] <daedaluz> dear novell developers, what the fuck is wrong with you?[02:03:11] <stpere> I don't know if my sample is representative, but everyone I personnally know running OpenSuse, runs everything as root.[02:04:14] <jessicah> lol[02:06:20] *** DocPheniX has quit IRC[02:06:45] *** slubman has joined #haiku[02:07:12] *** DocPheniX has joined #haiku[02:07:27] <Anarchos> daedaluz ah ah[02:07:56] <Anarchos> stpere well ... hmm security as its best :=)[02:08:16] <stpere> hahaha yes. Natural selection as we call it.[02:08:22] *** Negr0_VoP2P has joined #haiku[02:08:36] <daedaluz> I'm rather certain nobody at novell knows how their abomination called policykit actually works[02:11:01] *** slubman has quit IRC[02:12:23] *** jmelesky_ has quit IRC[02:12:49] *** vooshy has quit IRC[02:13:03] <stpere> man.. my dinner was awesome, grilled sausages, with whole mushrooms and cherry tomatoes on vines.[02:13:54] <jessicah> you ate the vines too?[02:13:56] <jessicah> :p[02:14:26] <stpere> oh course. not.[02:14:37] <jessicah> :)[02:15:02] <dreamed> heh[02:15:06] <dreamed> good to cook with though[02:15:13] <dreamed> guild wars 2 is interesting[02:15:14] <jessicah> i eat the grassy tops of carrots & strawberries[02:15:17] <dreamed> so is being back in windows[02:16:17] *** slubman has joined #haiku[02:17:33] <daedaluz> how's windows after haiku, dreamed? I've never used haiku as primary OS, but going from xfce/gnome to windows 7 is a pain[02:18:24] <dreamed> the windows experience has never felt as cohesive as beos/haiku[02:18:29] <dreamed> but I'm usually in osx[02:18:35] <dreamed> which feels more cohesive still[02:18:55] <Anarchos> dreamed as in every business, just look if employees use stuff they sell to see if it really is a good product ![02:29:38] <AlienSoldier> stpere i am going at la poule au oeuf d'or next month (my wother won) :)[02:29:55] <stpere> wwhhooooaahhh! :)[02:30:17] <stpere> guess I'll make an exception and watch tv :)[02:30:36] <AlienSoldier> hehe[02:31:18] <stpere> remind me, where are you in Quebec?[02:31:40] *** PasNox has quit IRC[02:32:02] <Anarchos> AlienSoldier i tried a casting to go to a french tv game. And what i saw to the casting disgusted me[02:32:18] <Anarchos> but i should have known : it was endemol...[02:32:20] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[02:32:44] <AlienSoldier> stpere bas st laurent[02:32:57] <AlienSoldier> they pay us 2 night at the hotel[02:33:15][02:33:25] <AlienSoldier> Anarchos it's part game show part state lottery[02:33:42] <AlienSoldier> huh, you where not in montreal?[02:33:50] <stpere> nope :)[02:34:21] <stpere> Rimouski?[02:34:26] <AlienSoldier> rdl[02:34:31] <stpere> ah ok[02:34:44] <AlienSoldier> but now i am south at my summer home[02:35:02] <AlienSoldier> red neck bsl :P[02:35:06] <stpere> LOL![02:35:16] <stpere> "deep in the lands"[02:35:25] <AlienSoldier> just replace banjo with accordeons[02:35:31] <CIA-80> haiku.master: anevilyak * hrev44594 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=fb5ef78 : Slight cleanup. Fix missing separator in texinfo path.[02:36:11] <stpere> one of these days I should stop by your place and we could share a drink and talk a bit :P[02:36:26] <AlienSoldier> you need to compile and Haiku alpha one day and write made in Gaspe on it :P[02:36:43] <stpere> hehehehe[02:37:00] <stpere> I wanted to host a tech conference here and call it "End of Land"[02:39:10] <AlienSoldier> i need to go back to town to vote soon :P[02:39:32] <AlienSoldier> i wish i could stay here[02:42:23] *** rootbaron has joined #haiku[02:42:24] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[02:43:07] <Anarchos> AlienSoldier i know the poule aux oeufs d'or, i lived in montreal for 2 years[02:43:24] <AlienSoldier> ... not another one :P[02:43:58] <Anarchos> stpere i apply for end of land conference : i am on extreme west of france :)[02:44:07] <AlienSoldier> Anarchos i once applied for the french jeopardy, it was ridiculous process[02:45:00] <AlienSoldier> Anarchos that is st-pierre et michelon?[02:45:02] <stpere> Anarchos, hehehe :)[02:45:23] <Anarchos> AlienSoldier no continental france sorry :) so extreme west of europa anyway[02:45:31] <AlienSoldier> hehe[02:46:42] <stpere> http://goo.gl/maps/jlVRV[02:46:56] <AlienSoldier> you can probably get free wifi from stpere on a sunny day :)[02:47:13] <stpere> hahaha.. could be[02:49:53] *** Beretta021 has joined #haiku[02:56:57] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[02:58:30] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[03:02:45] <rootbaron> Hmm... Haiku explodes wnen I plug in (or boot up with) my Fedora USB.[03:02:52] *** happy4crazy has quit IRC[03:02:57] <rootbaron> I wonder what could be causing that...[03:04:07] *** DocPheniX has quit IRC[03:10:22] <Anarchos> rootbaron most of time explosion are due to an intense and rapid fire.[03:10:59] <rootbaron> I usually refer to unrecoverable KDLs as explosions. Might as well be the same thing. :/[03:11:27] <Anarchos> rootbaron i had problems with bock caches and slow usb keys[03:11:49] <rootbaron> Thing is, it's only with the Fedora USB so far (and I have the same model for all my USB keys).[03:12:03] <rootbaron> Haiku is fine. Debian is fine, too.[03:12:14] <CIA-80> haiku.master: anevilyak * hrev44595 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=e652fc1 : Update webkit package to account for newer libpng/libjpeg.[03:12:16] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[03:12:57] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[03:12:57] <Anarchos> rootbaron what is the error message in KDL ?[03:14:22] <rootbaron> Would need to reboot. I'll do that in a moment and copy it down (it's a short one).[03:19:32] *** rootbaron has quit IRC[03:22:18] <HAIKU-Buildbot> build #684 of x86-Linux64-host is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://mmadia.dyndns.org:8010/builders/x86-Linux64-host/builds/684[03:34:00] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[03:38:03] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[03:43:38] *** ddavid123 has joined #haiku[03:50:29] <ddavid123> xyzzy: Awesome work on your x86_64 project![03:50:54] <ddavid123> Well done.[03:51:09] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[03:53:16] *** Beretta021 has joined #haiku[03:54:59] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[04:02:37] <Tsyesika> ddavid123 work?[04:03:00] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[04:04:04] *** Negr0_VoP2P has quit IRC[04:04:06] <ddavid123> Tsyesika: His work on the Haiku 64 bit project.[04:04:23] <Tsyesika> no i mean does it work[04:04:44] *** Beretta021 has joined #haiku[04:05:12] <ddavid123> According to his blog post, he got the kernel and most of the servers ported.[04:05:41] <Tsyesika> cool[04:05:44] <ddavid123> The only thing that needs to be done is all the apps[04:07:17] <ddavid123> and the drivers[04:07:22] <ddavid123> http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/xyzzy/2012-08-28_x86_64_port_final_report[04:10:24] <stpere> night[04:10:34] *** ddavid123 has quit IRC[04:10:34] *** stpere has quit IRC[04:11:44] *** pseudomind has quit IRC[04:22:17] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[04:23:55] *** happy4crazy has quit IRC[04:29:53] *** js has quit IRC[04:34:46] <Tsyesika> channels a bit... dead tonight :P[04:37:26] <Max^> ok[04:39:13] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[04:54:08] *** Megaf has quit IRC[05:01:00] * jstressman dances[05:01:07] <jstressman> there. less dead.[05:01:20] <Tsyesika> heyy jstressman[05:01:41] <CIA-80> haiku.master: czeidler * hrev44596 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=7dd16a4 :[05:01:42] <CIA-80> Fix crash when splitting a S&T group. [2 commits][05:02:33] *** Xeon3D|Zzz is now known as Xeon3D[05:13:19] <HAIKU-Buildbot> build #737 of x86-FreeBSD-host is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://mmadia.dyndns.org:8010/builders/x86-FreeBSD-host/builds/737[05:18:15] *** Xeon3D is now known as Xeon3D|Zzz[05:21:21] <jstressman> ^^/[05:21:42] <jstressman> I'm working on some web dev stuff here... so I'm kinda preoccupied. hence my relative silence. :)[05:21:51] <Tsyesika> no worries[05:21:51] <Tsyesika> :)[05:22:28] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[05:27:16] <CIA-80> haiku.master: anevilyak * hrev44597 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=6cf32e8 : Update webkit package to incorporate fixes for #8871.[05:37:12] *** pseudomind has joined #haiku[05:37:19] *** Xeon3D|Zzz is now known as Xeon3D[05:38:31] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[05:50:07] *** kcj has quit IRC[05:50:59] *** Dane_ has quit IRC[05:54:13] *** nsuperbus has joined #haiku[06:03:22] *** nsuperbus has quit IRC[06:07:18] *** kcj has joined #haiku[06:12:22] *** hamishm has quit IRC[06:13:25] *** qptain_Nemo has quit IRC[06:17:11] *** qguo has joined #haiku[06:25:05] * Disreali returns from acquiring food[06:25:37] <Disreali> huray for pumpkin beer[06:26:08] <CIA-80> haiku.r1alpha4: nielx * hrevr1alpha4-44580 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=9f9210e : Update translations from Pootle[06:27:22] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[06:27:38] <Disreali> wb OmniMancer[06:28:14] *** MatthewH12 has quit IRC[06:29:05] <OmniMancer> hi Disreali[06:29:28] <Disreali> what's new?[06:48:50] <Disreali> LOL! this is hysterical -> http://imgur.com/gallery/ZeGAp[06:50:14] *** qguo has quit IRC[06:52:28] *** duvjones has joined #haiku[06:59:38] <CIA-80> haiku.master: czeidler * hrev44598 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=225446a : Check if constraint is NULL. [10 commits][07:35:32] *** Chat8901 has joined #haiku[07:35:44] <Chat8901> hi[07:35:52] <Chat8901> hi[07:36:04] *** Chat8901 has quit IRC[07:39:02] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[07:41:45] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[07:46:16] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[07:47:46] *** Disreali has quit IRC[07:49:45] *** araxeus has joined #haiku[08:08:57] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[08:22:06] <jessicah> hey guys[08:24:06] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[08:27:27] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[08:31:06] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[08:40:34] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[08:42:59] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[08:47:02] <jstressman> morning jessicah :)[08:56:32] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[08:57:47] <jessicah> hey jstressman[08:57:51] <jessicah> how're you?[08:58:01] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[09:01:23] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[09:08:29] <jstressman> ok :)[09:08:52] *** tqh has joined #haiku[09:12:57] *** Soft has quit IRC[09:13:01] *** ismd has quit IRC[09:13:28] *** ismd has joined #haiku[09:20:45] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[09:23:09] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[09:24:03] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[09:27:12] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[09:29:01] *** rimio has joined #haiku[09:35:46] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[09:41:33] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[09:57:40] *** fhein has joined #haiku[10:03:38] *** Spacewalker has joined #haiku[10:03:39] *** Spacewalker has joined #haiku[10:23:48] *** Soft has joined #haiku[10:27:26] *** Sintendo has joined #haiku[10:29:52] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[10:31:28] *** dcase has joined #haiku[10:40:18] *** vezhlys has quit IRC[10:41:02] *** araxeus has quit IRC[10:49:34] *** mitknil has joined #haiku[10:49:35] *** mitknil has joined #haiku[10:55:05] *** pseudomind has quit IRC[10:56:06] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[10:58:55] *** Soft has quit IRC[11:22:38] *** diver has left #haiku[11:23:24] *** diver has joined #haiku[11:23:25] *** tqh has quit IRC[11:26:20] *** Blub\w has joined #haiku[11:37:32] *** diver has left #haiku[11:48:31] *** diver has joined #haiku[11:48:38] *** diver has left #haiku[11:50:54] *** leszek has joined #haiku[11:51:55] <leszek> hi[11:52:05] <munchausen> morning[11:54:02] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,[11:58:42] <jstressman> morning folks. :)[12:01:12] *** leszek has quit IRC[12:02:29] *** leszek has joined #haiku[12:04:29] <brobostigon> morning jstressman :)[12:04:43] * brobostigon 4[12:12:53] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[12:15:22] *** Negr0_VoP2P has joined #haiku[12:16:18] *** PasNox has quit IRC[12:21:48] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[12:22:31] *** Speedstick has joined #haiku[12:23:12] <Speedstick> does haiku have a C api? or is it strickly C++?[12:23:21] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[12:24:00] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[12:24:41] *** johnny_b has joined #haiku[12:24:58] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[12:28:53] <munchausen> Speedstick - I think it also has C. I've not really done much coding with the haiku API, but there is certainly a hello world! example using C.[12:29:13] <munchausen> (and not just plain C, but C with haiku api)[12:29:19] <munchausen> haiku/beos api[12:32:45] <jessicah> good morning :)[12:36:55] *** Speedstick has quit IRC[12:37:09] *** Speedstick has joined #haiku[12:39:52] *** bjz has quit IRC[12:45:45] *** XenoDuck has joined #haiku[13:03:39] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[13:05:06] <Speedstick> munchausen where wouldI find that?[13:06:03] *** Soft has joined #haiku[13:08:06] *** qguo has joined #haiku[13:10:15] *** qguo has quit IRC[13:10:32] *** chgurusky has joined #haiku[13:12:05] *** chgurusky has quit IRC[13:15:09] <munchausen> Speedstick - hmm, might have been wrong there. But seems you can do it using libcharlemagne, but it aint pretty[13:15:12] <munchausen> http://darkwyrm-haiku.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/c-meet-haiku-gui.html[13:16:10] <munchausen> http://paladin.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/paladin/paladin/file/4da38dbd477c/libcharlemagne/[13:17:21] <PulkoMandy> the API is C++ for all Haiku stuff[13:17:34] <PulkoMandy> youcan use C but yoyu will be restricted to POSIX API, so no GUI application[13:18:33] <PulkoMandy> libcharlemagne is one way to work around that, if you really, really hate C++... but then I'd suggest looking for a more suitable OS...[13:22:33] <jezek2> for C it doesn't make much sense as you can easily use C++ alongside it, for other languages such as python the only way is to wrap the API in some way :)[13:22:36] <OmniMancer> if you don't have certain other objections you could use things like SDL anyway[13:25:07] *** bjz has joined #haiku[13:26:01] <Speedstick> lincharlemagne doesn't seem to be for C[13:26:18] <Speedstick> and jezek2 what you don't understand is by supporting C you support a wealth of other languages[13:26:34] <Speedstick> because it allows system function calls vs C++ class non-sense[13:28:59] <jessicah> c++ class 'nonsense' makes for a nice API[13:29:12] <jezek2> Speedstick: didn't I just said that? :)[13:29:17] <jessicah> C apis suck[13:29:17] <jezek2> more or less ;)[13:29:41] <jessicah> buh, i tired[13:29:49] <jessicah> stayed up way longer than intended...[13:29:58] <jessicah> night night[13:30:43] <jezek2> Speedstick: actually I think the proper way is to create python (or whatever) native module that directly calls C++ :)[13:32:07] <jezek2> also not using any kind of reflection which libcharlemagne seems to use (how it works? :)[13:34:09] <Speedstick> C apis make LOT more sense than C++ api[13:34:20] <Speedstick> you guys are basically telling anyone who doesn't code in C++ to go away[13:34:49] <jezek2> also handling stuff like proper overriding of methods[13:35:04] <jezek2> though that can get tricky from my own experience[13:35:27] <jezek2> even more tricky if you want to wrap non-GC language in a GC language ;)[13:35:54] *** Negr0_VoP2P has quit IRC[13:38:07] <jezek2> Speedstick: not really, just reread what we say more carefully[13:38:16] *** Siintendo has joined #haiku[13:38:57] <Speedstick> no reread what I said more careful and think for a second why all the most popular os's in the world except mac have a C API[13:39:12] <Speedstick> mac use to with carbon but they been pushing object with cocoa[13:39:17] <jezek2> any wrapping is big amount of work and it's best done directly from source languaage to destination without any intermediate langs in the way[13:39:32] <jezek2> having C wrappers is just tiny detail[13:39:49] *** RaptorFX has joined #haiku[13:40:01] <RaptorFX> hi[13:40:17] *** negusnyul has joined #haiku[13:40:35] <Speedstick> C api opens doors to massive amount of linux devs[13:40:37] *** Sintendo has quit IRC[13:40:46] <jezek2> Speedstick: actually looking into history, it's normal that each OS has it's own langauge[13:40:50] <jezek2> *main language[13:40:51] <Speedstick> who are old beos fans[13:41:15] <jezek2> C got more common, that's sure, but it's just that[13:41:23] <Speedstick> C api allows just about every language I can think of to access the system api[13:41:29] <jezek2> and carbon is largely deprecated, and totally non existent for 64bit[13:41:36] <Speedstick> because they can do function imports, doing C++ specifically doesn't[13:41:50] <Speedstick> jezek2 yes I now because they want to push object c[13:41:54] <jezek2> have you did any actual wrapping work?[13:41:56] <Speedstick> which is still c with extra clutter[13:42:06] <jezek2> C functions is just minor thing of it[13:42:06] *** Soft has quit IRC[13:42:08] <jezek2> and not needed[13:42:18] <Speedstick> keep thinking that[13:42:25] <jezek2> heh[13:42:35] <Speedstick> mean while haiku dev speed won't grow anywhere near the level it could[13:42:59] <jezek2> quanity at expense of quality is no real progress either[13:43:02] <jezek2> *quantity[13:43:32] <Speedstick> C is faster than C++[13:43:33] <OmniMancer> obj-c is mostly syntax sugar on a library based object system[13:43:45] <jezek2> any language is syntax sugar[13:43:47] <jezek2> ;)[13:43:54] <OmniMancer> Speedstick: false[13:43:57] <jezek2> anyway this discussion is pointless[13:44:07] <jezek2> haiku is using C++ as main language, live with it, or leave[13:44:26] <Speedstick> jezek2 yes alienating majority of popular languages for a project that's desperate for growth is a pointless discussion[13:44:36] <Speedstick> that's fine, is your guys os[13:44:51] <Speedstick> I was was just rootin for it, that's all[13:44:57] <jezek2> Speedstick: you don't understand one thing, if you sacrifice such things you get another sucky linux distribution[13:45:12] <jezek2> even when it's using different kernel ;)[13:45:19] <OmniMancer> irrationally clinging to C as if its better than everything is more pointless[13:45:28] <PulkoMandy> we're fine with people writing wrappers like libcharlemagne (there are others)[13:45:29] <Speedstick> haiku is already posix compliant so that it can use those suck gnu/linux programs like idk, GCC?[13:45:35] <PulkoMandy> there even were some GSoC projects about it[13:45:45] <PulkoMandy> it's not a problem[13:45:46] <Speedstick> funny how they don't suck when they become essential to haiku being built[13:45:47] <jezek2> Speedstick: I'm talking mostly about GUI programs[13:45:52] <jezek2> ;)[13:46:07] <PulkoMandy> but, the BeAPI is made for C++, and it's very hard to build a counterpart in any other language[13:46:17] <PulkoMandy> and C, not being an object language, makes it even harder[13:46:32] <Speedstick> you guys are porting Qt, another sucky linux related GUI system[13:46:38] <PulkoMandy> we're not[13:46:41] <PulkoMandy> someone did it[13:47:06] <PulkoMandy> it's nowhere officially supported[13:47:41] <Speedstick> what's the point in ignoring most the worlds linux apps for no real reason?[13:47:54] <Speedstick> clearly you felt the need to port over webkit[13:48:01] <PulkoMandy> there are plenty of linux distributions that already run them ?[13:48:04] <Speedstick> so seems mixed and matched[13:48:09] <jezek2> Speedstick: if you don't understand it, haiku is not for you :)[13:48:17] <Speedstick> you guys port some but call others the suck[13:48:24] <jezek2> and there is big difference between libraries[13:48:26] <PulkoMandy> the idea of Haiku is to provide a coherent API for all apps[13:48:38] <jezek2> and end user GUI apps[13:48:43] <PulkoMandy> to make everything integrated and one coherent piece of software[13:48:45] <Speedstick> jezek2 no I just understand haiku nor its supporters won't survive unless you start drinking the gnu/linux koolaid[13:48:46] <OmniMancer> there is nothing wrong with us picking the things we feel are useful[13:48:50] <PulkoMandy> not a stack of random software parts[13:48:58] <PulkoMandy> this doesn't mean we have to rewrite everything[13:49:25] <PulkoMandy> so, html is done with webkit, font rendering with freetype, drawing with agg, media decoding with ffmpeg[13:49:26] <CIA-80> mmu_man-github.sam460ex: mmu_man-github * bea1908f0f54a62c73bccd9258a3c6a13ae0ee7e : Merge branch 'master' into sam460ex[13:49:31] <OmniMancer> we have survived fine and will continue to survive[13:49:38] <PulkoMandy> but each of them is 'hidden' inside the OS internals and could be replaced[13:49:44] <PulkoMandy> because apps don't talk to them directly[13:49:48] <PulkoMandy> they go through the BeAPI[13:49:54] <jezek2> Speedstick: you know everything isn't about quantity, and surviving is very relative thing ;)[13:50:08] <OmniMancer> and there is a difference between us choosing what we wish to work on[13:50:25] <OmniMancer> and you demanding that we port over everything you desire while you do no work[13:50:25] <PulkoMandy> there's no point in being just another gnu/linux[13:50:35] <Speedstick> well people donate towards haiku for a reason[13:50:35] <PulkoMandy> if we go that way, I'd rather use Debian which does it quite fine[13:50:47] <PulkoMandy> the point of Haiku is trying to build something else[13:50:55] <PulkoMandy> not doing more of the same[13:51:16] <PulkoMandy> (and yes, this does mean a lot more work for us)[13:52:54] <Speedstick> it'd be less work if you'd guys open your doors and offer a more welcoming api[13:53:05] <Speedstick> it might as well be java only or python only[13:53:14] <PulkoMandy> the Be API is one of the best I've ever worked with[13:53:54] <OmniMancer> why are you intent on attacking people for doing something they choose to do the way they want to do it[13:54:12] <Speedstick> i'm not attacking anyone, just raising a valid point[13:54:15] <PulkoMandy> but it's tied to C++, because it was never planned to do otherwise (even back in 1996 when Be started working on it)[13:54:32] <PulkoMandy> that being said, there's Bethon for using it in Python, for example[13:54:37] <Speedstick> I thought haiku was written from scratch[13:54:43] <Speedstick> and inspired by beos[13:54:48] <PulkoMandy> it is, but it is also binary compatible with BeOS[13:54:58] <PulkoMandy> which means a lot more than just "inspired by"[13:55:46] <Speedstick> alright[13:55:53] <Speedstick> well goodluck with the C++ only[13:56:01] <Speedstick> hopefully haiku continues to grow[13:56:34] <PulkoMandy> as I said, there is Bethon for Python, libcharlemagne for C (a bit ugly but works)[13:56:36] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[13:56:49] <PulkoMandy> and I remember seeing some Perl, Ruby and Lua as well[13:57:01] <PulkoMandy> and you can now use Java with Swing or AWT if you want so[13:57:08] <PulkoMandy> I don't see that as a C++ only OS, right ?[13:57:32] <OmniMancer> libcharlenagne is intended to allow you to write python and other language bindings without having to redo the C++ binding all the time[13:58:00] <PulkoMandy> mh[13:58:25] <PulkoMandy> I forgot Freepascal and lazarus, which work thanks to Qt, so you can also use Pascal and Pascal Object[13:58:48] <PulkoMandy> and there's yabasic for BASIC[13:58:55] <PulkoMandy> what's missing ? FORTRAN ?[13:59:24] <Speedstick> libcharlemagne doesn't look like it's intended for or works with C[13:59:51] <jezek2> Speedstick: it isn't, but there is no reason for it as you can easily use C++ from C[14:00:08] <jezek2> and mix them[14:00:57] <jezek2> it's annoying to write such code in non-OOP language anyway :)[14:01:12] <jezek2> I've written few apps in GTK in C... and it can be done, but it's not great either[14:01:13] *** Ingenu has left #haiku[14:01:20] <jezek2> esp. if you want to create your own class ;)[14:01:41] <Speedstick> Gtk+ was made in C[14:01:51] <Speedstick> and has a nice api with objects[14:01:59] <Speedstick> their documentation pretty horrible though[14:02:22] <jezek2> though the implementation of objects is slower[14:02:41] <jezek2> than in languages that can optimize it because it's part of language[14:02:58] <PulkoMandy> MUI on the amiga got objects in C mostly right[14:03:06] <Speedstick> but gtk+ api can be accessed with just about ANY language is what i'm telling you[14:03:12] <Speedstick> that's the benefit[14:03:18] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[14:03:23] <PulkoMandy> well[14:03:26] <jezek2> you still need to write wrapper for any such language[14:03:33] <Speedstick> no you don't[14:03:36] <PulkoMandy> I mentionned quite a lot of languages and none of them needed a C binding[14:03:37] <PulkoMandy> so ?[14:03:46] <jezek2> Speedstick: no you need :)[14:03:49] <Speedstick> every language I can think of can import functions, and hence can use gtk+[14:03:59] <jezek2> nobody calls lowlevel APIs directly in a highlevel language[14:04:08] <Speedstick> they have the power to[14:04:10] <jezek2> but using some sort of wrapper that creates nice classes[14:04:22] <HeTo> how do you import arbitrary functions directly with CPython?[14:04:22] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[14:04:26] <jezek2> and yet, every language can use BeAPI as well[14:04:36] <Speedstick> jezek2 not true[14:04:38] <jezek2> you just write wrapper[14:04:43] <Speedstick> lol at *just*[14:04:54] <jezek2> you need writing it anyway[14:05:06] <jezek2> even if it's for C API[14:05:24] <jezek2> because you want to provide high level API in the language[14:06:02] <jezek2> Speedstick: have you written any such wrappers? :)[14:06:11] <Speedstick> for haiku? no[14:06:20] <jezek2> generally[14:06:26] <jezek2> I've written few[14:06:36] <Speedstick> sure i'ev written wrappers in the past[14:06:46] <jezek2> and it's just minor detail in the overall work[14:07:12] <Speedstick> http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html[14:07:20] <Speedstick> that's how you call system api functions in python[14:07:23] <jezek2> and it's handy to use directly eg. the C++ API (or whatever language it is)[14:07:36] <jezek2> because you can then handle well overriding of methods[14:07:46] <jezek2> or other things as interacting with GC[14:08:03] <jezek2> to provide API that really feels like it's in the language you're targetting[14:08:50] <Speedstick> you're making a big assumption that there are tons of C++ coders in the world[14:08:56] <Speedstick> you know waht the most popular language is?[14:08:57] <Speedstick> C[14:09:03] <jezek2> wasn't that Java?[14:09:07] <jezek2> :)[14:09:12] <Speedstick> you know what most linux apps are written in? C[14:09:14] <Speedstick> nah C is tops[14:09:27] <jezek2> because UNIX used C as main language[14:09:44] <Speedstick> http://langpop.com/[14:09:50] <jezek2> other OSes uses different main languages[14:09:51] <Speedstick> because C is very nice[14:10:21] <Speedstick> no C++ abstraction sillyness, C++ is slower because with its added complexity that's added work for the compiler to compile it much less optimize[14:10:28] <Speedstick> and not all compilers are created equal[14:10:38] <jezek2> blah blah blah[14:10:41] <jezek2> go away pls[14:10:42] <jezek2> :)[14:11:12] <jezek2> you're just going in circlers[14:11:33] <Speedstick> no you're just upset I don't agree with you[14:11:43] <Speedstick> so you want me to leave[14:16:06] *** RaptorFX has quit IRC[14:17:42] *** chgurusky has joined #haiku[14:17:43] *** hamishm has joined #haiku[14:18:38] <munchausen> Speedstick - the thing is every so often it seems someone comes into this room and tries to tell the haiku developers what to do with their free time on the system they created. They have their own goals and targets, you arent going to change them. If you want a C api so badly, make one, and everyone here will applaud you[14:19:10] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[14:19:33] <OmniMancer> Speedstick: I see you suffer from C hacker syndrome http://warp.povusers.org/OpenLetters/ResponseToTorvalds.html[14:21:36] <Speedstick> i've already explained to you why C++ isn't ideal and what a C API offers[14:21:46] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[14:21:48] <Speedstick> which is lot more than C++, is no hacker syndrome, my points are valid[14:21:59] <Speedstick> yours are "well it was designed for C++ so yeah"[14:22:04] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[14:22:06] <PulkoMandy> we proved you wrong by showing several counter examples of already working solutions[14:22:14] <PulkoMandy> and you're still complaining[14:22:19] <OmniMancer> your points about slowness are not valid in the way you make them[14:22:24] <Speedstick> solutions someone quoted as saying "ugly but it works"[14:22:48] <OmniMancer> and you just keep on and on and on without stopping, no matter how much we try to explain that we are doing it this way[14:22:49] <Speedstick> doesn't spark much confidence btw I already looked at recommended solutions, they don't fix anything afaict[14:22:56] <PulkoMandy> I did say ugly, yes[14:23:06] <PulkoMandy> but a C API from our current one can't be made any better[14:23:09] <Speedstick> no I get it you guys are sticking with C++, that's your choice[14:23:18] <jezek2> guys you know that saying... don't feed the troll, right? :)[14:23:19] <PulkoMandy> you'd be better off porting GTK or UIP[14:23:39] <Speedstick> nice jezek2 I figured it was only a matter of time before someone started throwing out the troll word[14:23:56] <PulkoMandy> you were waiting for it, right ?[14:23:57] <Speedstick> just for future reference, it's not funny, it doesn't make you appear smart and you don't win anything[14:24:01] <PulkoMandy> ok, I have better dev to do now[14:24:02] *** Siintendo has quit IRC[14:24:08] <OmniMancer> jezek2: yes and I shan't be contributing anymore as he is not engaging in any kind of discussion but more a bludgioning match with his opinion[14:24:19] *** Sintendo has joined #haiku[14:24:22] <Speedstick> yes, it always happens, someone has a disgreement on irc and instead of acting mature they just fall back on calling the other person a troll[14:24:37] <PulkoMandy> we tried to give you our arguments[14:24:41] <PulkoMandy> you're not listening[14:24:44] <PulkoMandy> what can we do more ?[14:24:48] <Speedstick> I've heard your arguments[14:24:52] <OmniMancer> and nobody wins when there is someone who seeks only to be argumentative[14:25:07] <Speedstick> use C++, just as you are[14:25:11] <Speedstick> and good luck to you[14:25:28] <Speedstick> i being a haiku fan will just keep my opinions to myself[14:25:37] <PulkoMandy> anyway, I understand you don't agree, but then, why are you tryingto convince us ? it's not like there are dozens of other OS projects better suitable to your need ?[14:25:45] <Max^> use java[14:25:48] <Speedstick> that's what happens when i don't control a project, people ignore any suggestions they don't agree with[14:25:55] <OmniMancer> we would be happy if you would simply not insist on repeating them over and over and over again[14:26:00] <PulkoMandy> well[14:26:09] <PulkoMandy> moving away from C++ is a lot of work[14:26:18] <PulkoMandy> it could be possible[14:26:19] <Speedstick> I'm not saying move away from it[14:26:23] <PulkoMandy> if someone wants to do it, fine[14:26:24] <PulkoMandy> but[14:26:31] <Speedstick> but offering a C api can't possibly be that much work, C++ is still calling system functions[14:26:45] <PulkoMandy> well, that will result in an ugly API and we have it[14:26:46] <OmniMancer> not exactly[14:26:47] <Speedstick> it's just hidden in classes, the addresses[14:26:49] <PulkoMandy> it's libcharlemagne[14:26:56] <PulkoMandy> I don't think it's easy to do better[14:27:03] <Speedstick> i've looked at libcharlemagne, it shows me nothing[14:27:05] <PulkoMandy> (but it's not impossible either)[14:27:12] <OmniMancer> though wou could write a C implementation of the BMessage transfer format[14:27:17] <OmniMancer> but that still wouldn't help everything[14:27:27] <Speedstick> ok[14:27:28] <PulkoMandy> the problem is more : we are working on Haiku on our free time and we do whatever we feel like[14:27:42] <PulkoMandy> and you can do the same, so if you think a C api would be nice you only have 2 ways[14:27:48] <PulkoMandy> do it yourself, or pay someone else to do it[14:28:06] <OmniMancer> the GUI system is handled by a usermode server[14:28:22] <OmniMancer> we will maintain the existing interfaces to it[14:28:37] <OmniMancer> you either use the existing interface and adapt it to what you want[14:28:42] <PulkoMandy> OmniMancer: well, actually the app_server protocol isn't BMessage based[14:28:45] <PulkoMandy> ut's the app_server_link[14:28:49] <PulkoMandy> and this one is internal API[14:28:57] <Speedstick> you guys are raising a tremendous amount of money just to be workin on it in your free time?[14:29:01] <OmniMancer> or write your own and lose any guarantee of it remaining compatible[14:29:19] <PulkoMandy> Speedstick: I'm not getting paid right now. I did in the past and may again in the future[14:29:56] <Speedstick> who decides who gets payed?[14:29:57] <PulkoMandy> anyway, when donating money to Haiku, inc. you just do that, donating money. It's up to Haiku, inc. how to spend it[14:30:10] <PulkoMandy> the Haiku, inc. board of director[14:30:41] <PulkoMandy> usually it works this way : one of the developpers make a proposal like 'I wish to spend 2 full time month working on improving WebPositive'[14:30:57] <PulkoMandy> Haiku, Inc. votes internally for it to decide if it's worth money[14:31:07] <PulkoMandy> (AFAIK so far they never said no)[14:31:22] *** Sintendo has quit IRC[14:31:26] <PulkoMandy> but, if you have your own ideas on what's great, you could hire a developer directly[14:31:30] <PulkoMandy> or open a bounty on haikuware[14:31:39] <munchausen> Speedstick - there are much bigger problems in haiku than the API. If you really want/need a C api and it "cant possibly be that much work" why not do it yourself? You said you've written wrappers before[14:31:43] <PulkoMandy> (if you want other people to donate some money to that particular idea)[14:32:01] *** Sintendo has joined #haiku[14:32:06] <OmniMancer> not sure how long the bounties will be around[14:32:24] <PulkoMandy> well[14:32:30] <PulkoMandy> then use kickstarter or whatever[14:32:44] <PulkoMandy> or we could join the AROS system, Power To People IIRC[14:33:24] <munchausen> On the scale of things, as far as I can see, its not even vaguely a priority for any current haiku developers[14:34:20] <Speedstick> haiku needs better networking too[14:34:31] <Speedstick> select aint good enough for modern client side apps[14:34:42] <Speedstick> and it needs a login system, even if it remains single user[14:35:00] <PulkoMandy> select ? who uses that ? we have the Network Kit :)[14:35:05] <OmniMancer> patches welcome[14:35:16] <PulkoMandy> a login system on a single user system is as secure as windows 98[14:35:27] <PulkoMandy> no point in providing such a fake sense of security to users[14:35:34] <PulkoMandy> we prefer to do things right :)[14:35:57] <Speedstick> no it allows the machine to be secure when users away[14:36:18] <Speedstick> just because its single user doesn't mean it'll never be used in a multi-user environment[14:36:37] <Speedstick> like on a desktop/laptop at work when guy needs to take a leak[14:36:42] <PulkoMandy> the problem is single user goes deep inside the kernel, we're not able to handle file permissions properly[14:36:52] <PulkoMandy> so everything is readable[14:37:00] <Speedstick> a simple logout screen would be sufficient[14:37:08] <OmniMancer> PulkoMandy: he means requiring a password to unlock[14:37:08] <PulkoMandy> you could enter KDL, kill the password prompt and get access to everything[14:37:14] <Speedstick> Omni yeah[14:37:18] <OmniMancer> but yes that[14:37:37] <OmniMancer> Speedstick: its alpha, whatever is done won't be secure anyway[14:37:47] <Speedstick> what is KDL? and how would one enter that with a logout screen has screen and keyboard/mouse input hooked/locked[14:37:52] <OmniMancer> besides the usual of you can boot a live CD[14:38:00] <PulkoMandy> Speedstick; that's the point[14:38:08] <PulkoMandy> you need a secure way to lock input[14:38:11] <PulkoMandy> and we have not[14:38:19] <OmniMancer> Speedstick: because the kernel monitors the keyboard for the alt+_sysreq+d KDL shortcut[14:38:28] <Speedstick> you guys wrote the kernel![14:38:29] <Speedstick> lol[14:38:31] <OmniMancer> and even so[14:38:31] <PulkoMandy> (writing a keylogger for haiku is less than 10 lines of code)[14:38:38] <Speedstick> you act like it's out of your hands and you can't alter anything[14:38:42] <OmniMancer> you can still shutdonw the computer[14:38:46] <OmniMancer> and boot a live CD[14:38:51] <OmniMancer> and get at all the data on the disk[14:38:53] <PulkoMandy> we are writing it, yes, and we know it's some work to make it secure enough even for single user password[14:39:02] <Speedstick> that gives access to files of which you should add file encryption support[14:39:06] <OmniMancer> it can be altered, but its an alpha OS[14:39:09] <Speedstick> bt doesn't give access to live running programs[14:39:13] <PulkoMandy> possible, but not as simple as throwing a password window[14:39:14] <Speedstick> ok[14:39:18] *** Colin_Finck has joined #haiku[14:39:24] <OmniMancer> there are more important things than these things you talk about[14:39:33] <Speedstick> like what[14:39:46] <PulkoMandy> btw, we already have the password window in our sources, it's an app called Login[14:39:57] <PulkoMandy> but it is not compiled with the OS right now as it would be rather useless[14:40:05] *** Colin_Finck has quit IRC[14:40:05] *** Colin_Finck has joined #haiku[14:40:06] <OmniMancer> if you feel this is so important then you can work towards it, but don't expect anyone to care too much when the OS still needs to be completed[14:40:17] <PulkoMandy> the current priorities are :[14:40:31] <Speedstick> here comes the 64bit[14:40:32] <PulkoMandy> * package manager, which will allow the OS files to be read only[14:40:43] <PulkoMandy> * secure store for wireless network passwords[14:40:47] <Speedstick> yeah I mentioned package manager the other day[14:40:51] <PulkoMandy> * big run of bugfixing[14:40:56] <PulkoMandy> then we can make our R1 release[14:41:25] <Speedstick> alright guys sorry to run, appreciate the chat, sorry if i offended anyone, and thanks for the hardwork on the os, is appreciate, have a good one[14:41:28] *** Speedstick has quit IRC[14:41:43] *** Sintendo has quit IRC[14:42:16] <OmniMancer> these things take time[14:53:46] *** Cenbe has quit IRC[14:58:26] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[15:00:22] *** Cenbe has joined #haiku[15:02:05] *** ChanServ has quit IRC[15:07:02] *** ChanServ has joined #haiku[15:07:02] *** rajaniemi.freenode.net sets mode: +o ChanServ[15:10:01] *** kcj has quit IRC[15:23:16] *** [r4] has quit IRC[15:29:16] *** Beretta021 has joined #haiku[15:31:20] *** Xeon3D is now known as Xeon3D|Zzz[15:35:19] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[15:36:19] *** Beretta021 has joined #haiku[15:37:37] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[15:42:41] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[15:46:49] *** jstressman has quit IRC[15:47:14] *** happy4crazy has quit IRC[15:47:48] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[15:50:45] *** Soft has joined #haiku[15:52:00] *** happy4crazy has quit IRC[15:54:17] *** jstressman has joined #haiku[15:55:19] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[15:58:38] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[15:58:39] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[16:05:49] *** Soft has quit IRC[16:06:26] *** s|lentbob has joined #haiku[16:09:16] <s|lentbob> isnt it abit interessting to think that just now are LED lights getting popular when they could actually have taken of ages ago ?[16:09:52] <s|lentbob> coming from an electronic background, I often asked myself why LED's arent used for other things but where told that they arent good enough for various reasons[16:09:57] <s|lentbob> but.. appearntly they are[16:10:02] *** idefix_gromit has joined #haiku[16:10:26] <s|lentbob> I gotta stop being convinced by other ppls crap :)[16:25:03] *** ity has joined #haiku[16:28:10] *** Megaf has quit IRC[16:28:19] *** ity has quit IRC[16:29:29] *** oco has joined #haiku[16:31:24] <OmniMancer> s|lentbob: in some cases like car headlights there are issues of reliability and such due to safety regulations[16:35:02] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[16:35:31] *** vooshy has quit IRC[16:36:52] <PulkoMandy> and, the led technology is making progress (like any technology)[16:37:09] <PulkoMandy> now they are good enough for some uses, where 10 or 20 years ago they were not[16:37:14] <PulkoMandy> (or did cost too much)[16:38:11] <PulkoMandy> that being said, I should resume work on that usb blinkenlight project someday ...[16:46:52] *** nsuperbus has joined #haiku[16:48:13] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[16:48:55] *** leszek has quit IRC[16:49:59] *** Beretta021 has joined #haiku[16:51:28] *** leszek has joined #haiku[16:56:07] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[16:57:31] *** chgurusky has quit IRC[16:59:10] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[17:04:26] *** Colin_Finck has quit IRC[17:06:42] *** bbjimmy-at-home has joined #haiku[17:07:18] *** Barrett has quit IRC[17:07:31] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[17:07:32] *** bbjimmy-at-home is now known as bbjimmy[17:07:40] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[17:07:41] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[17:09:18] <s|lentbob> :)[17:13:08] *** luko has joined #haiku[17:13:08] *** nsuperbu1 has joined #haiku[17:13:27] *** Sintendo has joined #haiku[17:16:03] *** nsuperbus has quit IRC[17:17:45] *** mmadia has quit IRC[17:20:19] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[17:20:20] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[17:20:24] *** Barrett has quit IRC[17:21:55] *** CIA-80 has quit IRC[17:22:32] *** PasNox_ has joined #haiku[17:22:40] *** PasNox has quit IRC[17:30:49] *** PasNox_ is now known as PasNox[17:36:31] *** mmadia has quit 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#haiku[18:57:57] *** Soft has joined #haiku[18:59:21] *** luko has quit IRC[18:59:50] *** oco has quit IRC[19:09:14] *** Soft has quit IRC[19:12:05] *** pfoetche1 has joined #haiku[19:12:45] *** bigbluehat_ has joined #haiku[19:17:43] *** bigbluehat has quit IRC[19:17:46] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[19:17:47] *** Megaf has quit IRC[19:17:49] *** arfonzo has quit IRC[19:17:49] *** arfonzo has joined #haiku[19:17:50] *** bigbluehat_ is now known as bigbluehat[19:17:55] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[19:18:02] *** idefix_gromit has joined #haiku[19:20:12] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[19:23:13] *** stargater has quit IRC[19:25:18] *** stargater has joined #haiku[19:26:24] *** DaQatz has quit IRC[19:29:30] *** DaQatz has joined #haiku[19:36:47] *** dylan has joined #haiku[19:36:55] <dylan> hello.[19:37:45] <geist> hola[19:38:26] <dylan> I've had a bit of a problem whilst installing Haiku. =(. The installation process gives me no errors but when i go into bootup it shows up with a flickering "_" cursor[19:38:48] <dylan> and doesn't do anything else.[19:40:02] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[19:41:06] <jstressman> dylan: can you tell us which version specifically you were trying to install?[19:41:21] <jstressman> the alpha3, a nightly, gcc2h or something else... which revision #, etc...[19:41:36] <jstressman> anyboot, iso, vmdk, etc. :)[19:41:49] <PulkoMandy> and other infos on your configuration - other Oses on the same drive, which kind of drive (usb, ide, sata), and the config (partitionning and such)[19:43:14] <dylan> R1 Alpha3 onto a fresh 16GB USB and it consisted of one Be Filesystem.[19:43:57] <mmadia> http://www.haiku-files.org/haiku/development/ hrevr1alpha4-44577 is better to test with.[19:44:14] <PulkoMandy> yes, we are about to release alpha 3 so you may as well try that[19:44:25] <jstressman> PulkoMandy: *alpha 4[19:44:39] <PulkoMandy> and, with some BIOSes you need to create a partition on the usb drive, instead of installing directly to the disk[19:45:01] <PulkoMandy> jstressman: mh, yes. I heard off-by-one errors are the most common source of errors in computer programs ? ;)[19:45:08] <jstressman> ;) hehe[19:45:35] *** _marc` has quit IRC[19:45:47] <dylan> Okay I'll try this. thankyou :)[19:46:13] <PulkoMandy> you may need to install the bootloader as well[19:46:33] *** jjido has joined #haiku[19:46:33] <PulkoMandy> this is available in the "tools" menu in installer[19:46:34] <dylan> By the way (stupid question) what is anyboot?[19:46:54] <PulkoMandy> anyboot is a special image format that behaves both as an ISO image and a partition based one[19:47:05] <PulkoMandy> so it can be used both on a CD and an usb drive directly[19:47:50] <mmadia> and one of the benefits when written to the USB sticks, the extra space on the drive can be turned into additional partitions.[19:47:51] <dylan> Oh. i see :)[19:48:20] <mmadia> ideally, the ISO will be phased out in favor of the anyboot.[19:49:43] <dylan> okay[19:49:45] <dylan> :)[19:50:38] <dylan> haiku looks good so far :).[19:51:44] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[19:51:46] <dylan> Also, are there any extra applications which i can download like a word processor etc. like open office?[19:52:17] <mmadia> http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/hamish/2012-08-26_openjdk_port_final_report ;)[19:52:38] <mmadia> and www.haikuware.com and `installoptionalpackage` from within Terminal[19:53:10] <dylan> Ah thanks ^^[19:53:17] *** brianb_ has quit IRC[19:53:31] *** Negr0_VoP2P has joined #haiku[19:53:35] <jjido> mmadia: nice work from Hamish and Andrew[19:54:02] <dylan> i feel like such a noob haha .. it's very different compared to archlinux >.<[19:55:04] <mmadia> hands down, this has been the most impressive and successful Google Summer of Code for Haiku.[19:55:33] <mmadia> it seems that within the week, yongcong will be getting commit access too[19:56:15] <mmadia> some years, we're lucky to have 1 student get commit access. this year we had two get it for Haiku and one for OpenJDK.[19:56:25] <Tsyesika> what did they manage with GSoC[19:56:41] <mmadia> a wrap up report is posted on the website.[19:57:03] <Tsyesika> ah okay :) Awesome[19:59:54] *** stpere has quit IRC[20:00:37] *** Megaf has quit IRC[20:00:43] *** leszek has quit IRC[20:03:20] <Tsyesika> read it, sounds cool[20:06:20] *** idefix_gromit has left #haiku[20:09:47] <dylan> be right back, guys[20:09:47] <AlienSoldier> mmadia does the google money is currently reflected in the piggy indicator?[20:12:20] *** nortti_ has quit IRC[20:19:04] *** happy4crazy has quit IRC[20:21:53] *** jjido has quit IRC[20:22:14] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[20:22:23] <dylan> \[20:22:26] <dylan> back*[20:22:28] <Tsyesika> hey[20:22:34] <dylan> Hello :)[20:23:01] *** chgurusky has joined #haiku[20:23:06] <Tsyesika> fundrasing hasn't gone well has it?[20:23:36] <dylan> :( sadly. I don't think it's well known. i only stumbled across Haiku by accident[20:23:37] <Tsyesika> september and not even a 1/3rd of the years goal been met[20:24:10] *** jjido has joined #haiku[20:24:20] <dylan> It's a shame, because it looks like a good distro.[20:24:21] <Tsyesika> dylan what a serendipitous occasion[20:24:50] * dylan needs to borrow a dictionary.[20:24:53] <dylan> x3[20:25:14] <dylan> yeah that is very true :)[20:25:22] <Tsyesika> :)[20:26:18] <PulkoMandy> Tsyesika: the alpha releases usually boosts the donation quite a lot[20:26:27] <Tsyesika> :)[20:26:40] <dylan> i'm not sure how to find out, but who are like the main developers of Haiku?[20:26:41] <Tsyesika> I would donate but... i owe my bank 500 pounds[20:26:46] *** duvjones has quit IRC[20:27:05] <PulkoMandy> mmadia: I think in 2009 Maxime Simon got commit access to Web+ and I got access to Haiku ? I'd say let's wait to see if the students actually stay around, as well...[20:27:25] <PulkoMandy> (but it looks like we're on a good way there as well)[20:27:48] <Tsyesika> are maxime and simon around still?[20:27:51] <Tsyesika> developing on it[20:28:26] *** chgurusky has quit IRC[20:28:39] <PulkoMandy> Maxime Simon is only one guy[20:28:48] <Tsyesika> haha :P[20:28:50] * Tsyesika blushes[20:28:50] *** chgurusky has joined #haiku[20:28:58] <PulkoMandy> and no, we haven't seen him after that[20:29:06] <Tsyesika> that's a shame :([20:29:15] <PulkoMandy> got busy with school, then family life, and moved on to other things[20:29:34] <Tsyesika> I applied to CERN regarding GSoC one year... got denied :( FTL[20:29:50] <Tsyesika> never applied anywhere again[20:30:38] <geist> seems like a good idea[20:30:50] <PulkoMandy> I applied twice for Haiku (2008 and 2009), failed the first time, but tried again and it worked[20:30:56] *** chgurusky has quit IRC[20:31:03] <Tsyesika> PulkoMandy sounds awesome :)[20:31:17] <Tsyesika> If I was going to apply anywhere it would probably be haiku[20:31:40] <Tsyesika> though i might be doing haiku a disservice[20:31:45] *** stpere has joined #haiku[20:33:31] <PulkoMandy> mmadia: btw, https://www.haiku-os.org/community/gsoc seems to lack the final reports for 2011 and 2012[20:34:52] *** ddavid123 has joined #haiku[20:35:18] <dylan> hm does this also work on a mac by the way?[20:35:39] <Tsyesika> apparently there have been some issues but recently it can be booted (if you use the nightlys)[20:36:09] <Tsyesika> erm there are some issues, sound didn't work tho (it might since there was a snd commit recently)[20:36:19] <Tsyesika> dylan test it for us? :)[20:36:33] <dylan> Okay :)[20:36:40] *** amigamia has quit IRC[20:36:40] *** amigamia has joined #haiku[20:36:51] <dylan> I shall try. however i tried alpha 3 with a response of "No bootable medium inserted"[20:37:06] <Tsyesika> haiku-files.org[20:37:06] * dylan should of just got a new PC.[20:37:07] <Tsyesika> :)[20:37:09] <PulkoMandy> yes, you really want to use the pre-alpha4 images[20:37:21] <PulkoMandy> alpha 3 is one year old and we made a lot of progress[20:37:21] <dylan> yeah .. oh it's already downloaded[20:37:23] <ddavid123> Alpha 4 rc files available too![20:37:28] <Tsyesika> I might make Vision see that as a link[20:37:28] <dylan> my internet is super slow[20:37:37] <Tsyesika> dylan grab the anyboot[20:37:39] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[20:37:40] <dylan> my old pc is lying in peices on the floor.[20:37:41] <PulkoMandy> well, haiku is not that big :)[20:37:44] <Tsyesika> and shove it on a usb drive :)[20:37:49] <dylan> ok :).[20:38:02] <dylan> my internet speed is 25kb/s[20:38:07] <dylan> so it takes like 2 hours[20:38:16] <PulkoMandy> mh, yes, that's indeed quite slow[20:38:23] <dylan> Thank you, Brittish internet.[20:38:34] <Tsyesika> dylan which isp?[20:38:40] <dylan> o2[20:38:44] <Tsyesika> oh :P[20:38:54] <Tsyesika> dylan see if virgin cable is available in your area[20:38:58] <Tsyesika> :P[20:38:59] <dylan> hm[20:39:04] <Tsyesika> <3 virgin cable[20:39:06] <dylan> my mom doesn't want to switch[20:39:16] <dylan> I'm 16 btw, so i don't get much say >.<[20:39:33] <PulkoMandy> I remember times when a friend asked me to download BeOS R5 and burn it on a CD for it[20:39:45] <PulkoMandy> was faster for him to wait a day to get a CD than download it itself[20:40:05] <Tsyesika> :P[20:40:12] <Tsyesika> PulkoMandy I remember times like those too[20:40:58] <Tsyesika> I was brought up on linux and my dad wouldn't update until a linux format was released with the CD withthe OS he wanted on[20:41:01] <Tsyesika> *with the[20:41:03] <dylan> yeah, we've only had like .. wireless for 4 years. before then it was dialup. and it disconnected every 30 minutes.[20:41:18] *** alexandros_c has quit IRC[20:41:41] *** alexandros_c has joined #haiku[20:41:50] <Tsyesika> my dad wrote a small program to disconnect after 59 minutes and reconnect as line one (an old ISP) use to give you the first hour free but if you went over you had to pay for the hour + whatever else you used[20:42:05] <Tsyesika> they ended up disconnecting us as we violated some terms of use or whatever[20:42:05] <dylan> ah[20:42:08] <Tsyesika> :P[20:42:11] <Tsyesika> worked for a while tho[20:42:27] <dylan> i personally think the dialup was more reliabe.. than wireless.[20:42:29] <Tsyesika> it occasionly sent a bit of traffic through as idle connections they'd bump off[20:42:46] <dylan> hm[20:43:00] <Tsyesika> i think all dialup ISPs bumped idle connections[20:44:19] <dylan> i couldn't find an irc client so at the moment i'm using emacs XD.[20:44:26] <PulkoMandy> I remember these programs to track online time, and switch from one ISP to the other as you expired the allowed "free" time[20:44:28] <Tsyesika> dylan it's called Vision[20:44:33] <Tsyesika> it should be there[20:44:33] <dylan> ah[20:44:49] <dylan> i'm using the Mac atm haven't put the .image onto my usb yet[20:45:00] <Tsyesika> dylan if you want an updated version check out http://tsyesika.co.uk/u/Haiku :)[20:45:26] <Tsyesika> I fixed a few bugs and it's x.x.1 of a version newer[20:45:31] <Tsyesika> than the shipped one[20:45:52] <dylan> hm[20:46:14] <Tsyesika> my next big challenge is to switch it from using unix sockets to network kit[20:46:17] <PulkoMandy> Tsyesika: did you sent the patch to deadyak already ?[20:46:29] <dylan> i really need to learn to burn image files. xD. /me goes to google.[20:46:30] <PulkoMandy> it may get included in alpha4 if you're fast enough[20:46:33] <Tsyesika> PulkoMandy they're on the sourceforge bug tracker[20:46:42] <PulkoMandy> ok[20:46:47] <Tsyesika> oh apart from one as it won't let me open a new ticket[20:47:17] <dylan> so haiku packages are tar.xz files?[20:47:33] <Tsyesika> dylan pkg or zip files are what software is usually distributed in[20:47:43] <Tsyesika> the nightlies if you so choose are .tar.xz[20:48:01] <Tsyesika> does anyone know how to the video in mediaplayer?[20:48:04] <Tsyesika> *player[20:48:49] <Tsyesika> i've poked around and can't see a way[20:49:00] <dylan> hm i'm guessing haiku doesn't have wifi support yet . i'll be right back i'm going to test out booting :0[20:49:02] <dylan> :)*[20:49:08] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[20:49:10] <Tsyesika> dylan it does if you have a specific PCI card[20:49:14] <Tsyesika> well[20:49:15] <Tsyesika> a few[20:49:16] <Tsyesika> :P[20:49:22] <Tsyesika> there is a list on the website[20:49:32] <dylan> I have a bcm43xx card i think[20:49:32] <jstressman> wifi works for me. :)[20:49:39] <Tsyesika> wifi works for me too :)[20:49:41] * Tsyesika is on wifi atm[20:49:48] <jstressman> a couple of the broadcom don't work... a bunch do.[20:49:48] <Tsyesika> dylan two secs i'll find the page[20:49:53] <dylan> okay thankyou.[20:49:59] <jstressman> (the one in a mini9 netbook doesn't for instance)[20:50:36] <jstressman> https://www.haiku-os.org/guides/daily-tasks/wireless[20:50:40] <jstressman> Tsyesika: that one?[20:50:55] <Tsyesika> yes :P[20:51:07] <jstressman> Non-Supported Hardware The following Broadcom 43xx devices: bcm4311: vendor 14e4, device 4311 bcm4312: vendor 14e4, device 4315[20:51:17] <Tsyesika> awhh :([20:51:23] <dylan> 4313 :P[20:51:30] <Tsyesika> WAIT![20:51:32] <Tsyesika> that's not there[20:51:36] <jstressman> dylan: you should be ok then :) hopefully.[20:51:51] <dylan> ^^ i'll give it a go.[20:51:57] <Tsyesika> :) report back to us[20:52:20] <Tsyesika> did they take vlc out of installoptionalpackage[20:55:32] <dylan> i found haiku only yesterday :)[20:57:11] <PulkoMandy> you may have to install wpa supplicant and a firmware[20:57:24] <dylan> yeah[20:57:33] <dylan> i have a wpapsk encryption[20:57:35] <dylan> :c[20:57:54] <Tsyesika> PulkoMandy he's using A4rc's does he still have to install wpa_supplicant?[20:58:06] <PulkoMandy> should be in by default[20:58:52] <dylan> hmm still having problems with the image format[20:58:54] <dylan> :S[20:59:18] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[20:59:37] *** waveshaper has left #haiku[20:59:44] * dylan is stupid[21:00:14] <Tsyesika> dylan what's the problem?[21:00:31] <dylan> Mac doesn't understand .image fileformat[21:00:55] <Tsyesika> what you doing with it? CD, pendrive?[21:01:05] <dylan> pendrive[21:01:29] <Tsyesika> dylan on a mac, use dd[21:01:39] *** _marc` has quit IRC[21:01:50] <Tsyesika> diskutils list # i think[21:01:55] <Tsyesika> find the disk you want[21:02:23] <Tsyesika> dd if=path/to/haiku.image of=/dev/diskX bs=1m # i think[21:02:28] <Tsyesika> the bs bit changes[21:02:40] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[21:03:00] <Tsyesika> oh yeh, don't make a mistake selecting the disk for of[21:03:02] <Tsyesika> :P[21:03:07] <Tsyesika> just a prewarning[21:03:40] <dylan> xd yeah i make mistakes like that alot.. heh where did windows go.. -oops-[21:04:18] <PulkoMandy> the bs only affects the speed of copying[21:04:25] <PulkoMandy> 1m should be more than enough[21:04:28] <dylan> ok :)[21:04:52] <Tsyesika> PulkoMandy what i was saying is if it's 1m or 1M depends on the OS[21:05:00] <PulkoMandy> well[21:05:01] <Tsyesika> since linux is 1M[21:05:06] <Tsyesika> figured OS x wouldn't be[21:05:06] <PulkoMandy> bs=1024000 then :)[21:05:07] <Tsyesika> :P[21:05:34] <PulkoMandy> (a multiple of 512 wouldbe faster, so compute 1024*1024 to gat the right value)[21:06:46] <Tsyesika> I really wanna develop a awesome computational chemistry program for haiku :P i don't want to start it now tho as i know it'll get put on the back burner[21:07:19] <dylan> do i do disk2s1 ?[21:07:26] <Tsyesika> dylan no :P just disk2[21:07:32] <dylan> ah ok[21:07:44] <dylan> just wondering because igot a not supported error xD[21:07:55] <PulkoMandy> it will erase the whole disk[21:08:00] <jjido> what is .image exactly? The Mac understands .iso and .img[21:08:00] <Tsyesika> ^[21:08:01] <PulkoMandy> so be really careful[21:08:10] <Tsyesika> jjido i think an .img file[21:08:13] <Tsyesika> actually i'm guessing[21:08:19] <Tsyesika> so forget what i say[21:08:20] <PulkoMandy> anyboot is actually both[21:08:20] <Tsyesika> :P[21:08:31] <jjido> You can burn either using Disk Utility[21:08:42] <jjido> and a Mac chat client is LimeChat[21:08:51] <PulkoMandy> but some programs try to be smart, detect it is one of them and try to convert to the other[21:09:00] <PulkoMandy> and break the careful layout of things we set up[21:09:05] <Tsyesika> i miss textual from mac days[21:10:25] <dylan> hm[21:10:45] *** Sintendo has joined #haiku[21:11:16] <dylan> i have textual still[21:11:17] <dylan> but[21:11:25] <dylan> idk why but i prefer emacs[21:11:38] * dylan snuggles up to terminal window[21:12:04] <Tsyesika> :P[21:12:41] <dylan> ok i'm going to try initialising disk2 if i randomly leave you know why :P[21:13:25] <Tsyesika> :P well hopefully os x wouldn't allow you to write to a mounted disk :P so you shouldn't nuke your current OS[21:14:18] <jjido> Tsyesika: with dd? Not sure there are many limitations[21:14:49] <Tsyesika> pretty sure the OS would step in[21:15:05] <Tsyesika> i'd test this but my mac didn't like the drink of coffee i offered it[21:15:24] <dylan> o_O still getting operation not permitted.[21:15:32] <Tsyesika> dylan sudo -i[21:15:32] <Tsyesika> :)[21:15:35] <Tsyesika> then try[21:15:55] <dylan> yup still the same[21:16:03] <dylan> i'll try as super user[21:16:48] <dylan> or substitute user as it's known as :)_[21:17:17] <Tsyesika> huh[21:17:19] <dylan> idk[21:17:28] <Tsyesika> ooo one of my bugs has turned into a A4 blocker?[21:17:30] <dylan> i read somewhere SU standed for substitute user[21:17:44] <Tsyesika> dylan "su -"[21:17:45] <Tsyesika> or sudo -i[21:17:50] <Tsyesika> without quotes[21:17:59] <jjido> dylan: are you copying to a USB stick?[21:18:08] *** ddavid123 has quit IRC[21:18:14] <dylan> yeah[21:19:47] <jjido> use Disk Utility or diskutil to unmount it without ejecting it[21:20:08] <jjido> umount should work too in fact[21:20:20] <dylan> sh-3.2# dd if=/users/dylaneddies/Desktop/haiku-alpha-anyboot.image of=dev/disk2 gives response: dd: /dev/disk2: Operation not supported. And i did umount it. :S. -confused-[21:20:22] <Tsyesika> umount /dev/disk2[21:20:35] <Tsyesika> actually diskutil unmount /dev/disk2[21:20:45] <Tsyesika> hmm[21:21:37] <jjido> try /dev/disk2s1 but I don't see why this would work better[21:21:48] <Tsyesika> it wouldn't work[21:21:59] <Tsyesika> jjido you'll miss the boot stuf[21:22:01] <Tsyesika> *stuff[21:23:00] <dylan> ok it's doing something.[21:23:11] <Tsyesika> dylan by the way what happened to /dev/ not dev/[21:23:22] <Tsyesika> did you cd /[21:23:46] <dylan> yeah i did /dev/ i'm just using a seperate terminal area for emacs so i couldn't paste it in so i made a typo in emacs.[21:23:58] <Tsyesika> okay[21:24:14] <dylan> it's copying :)[21:24:23] <Tsyesika> i think you'll struggle to boot from it[21:24:31] <Tsyesika> but we'll see[21:24:47] <dylan> i struggle to boot anything that isn't mac on this computer to be honest xD[21:25:11] <Tsyesika> you should install that thing rEsomethin[21:25:15] <Tsyesika> i don't remember it's name[21:25:15] <PulkoMandy> you need to unmount disk2s1, then copy to disk2 I'd say[21:25:24] <Tsyesika> PulkoMandy he did[21:25:27] <PulkoMandy> but if that gives permission denied errors...[21:25:34] <dylan> rEFIt[21:25:38] <Tsyesika> oh by the way it's diskutils unmountDisk /whatever[21:25:40] <dylan> i did[21:25:41] <Tsyesika> dylan that's the one[21:25:44] <dylan> but it dosn't work[21:25:46] <dylan> i tried[21:25:53] <dylan> as i have mac OS X 10.8.1[21:26:01] <Tsyesika> i've never used mountain lion[21:26:07] <Tsyesika> my mac died before[21:26:16] <PulkoMandy> dd to disk2s1 will give you a nested partition table which I don't think is expected to work anywhere[21:26:39] <Tsyesika> ^[21:26:44] <Tsyesika> it's what i was trying to say[21:27:12] <dylan> oh[21:27:26] <dylan> i used from 10.5 to 10.8.1[21:27:32] <Tsyesika> i don't know why it won't allow it[21:27:36] <dylan> i personally think 10.6 was the best[21:27:45] <Tsyesika> dylan the OS version you're on is irrelivent by the way[21:27:46] <dylan> (no war over distros intended)[21:27:51] <dylan> hm[21:27:59] <dylan> well it worked always on my old mac[21:28:04] <dylan> with 10.8[21:28:06] <dylan> 10.6*[21:28:15] <Tsyesika> i doubt dd has changed that radically[21:28:29] <dylan> i was talking about rEFIt[21:28:55] <dylan> :S sorry for the misunderstanding[21:28:56] <Tsyesika> i think it's alt or cmd but if you hold it down it should list what you can boot into[21:29:10] <dylan> it's just alt normally[21:29:11] <dylan> :)[21:29:51] <Tsyesika> humph i throw a drink at my mac and all my lovely mac knowledge has gone :([21:30:19] <Tsyesika> which is odd because non of my linux knowledge subsided when i ran mac[21:30:19] <dylan> hm i threw a USB stick at mine .[21:30:21] <dylan> my old one[21:30:34] <Tsyesika> dylan my mac book had to stand up to 2 coffees and a cider[21:30:35] <Tsyesika> :P[21:30:45] <dylan> and then i accidentally punched my mac book[21:30:47] <dylan> well[21:30:50] <dylan> not accidentally[21:30:56] <dylan> i got super mad at something[21:30:59] <Tsyesika> the final coffee made my mac say goodbye to the world[21:31:01] <dylan> i don't remember once[21:31:21] <dylan> i punched my mac's screen a couple of times and -crack-[21:31:31] <dylan> the usb stick only chipped the screen[21:31:37] <Tsyesika> i could only afford one mac[21:31:41] <Tsyesika> i used EMA over like the 2y[21:31:42] <Tsyesika> :P[21:31:55] <Tsyesika> and a bit of christmas money[21:31:57] <dylan> EMA?[21:32:04] <dylan> what's that[21:32:05] <dylan> :S[21:32:09] <Tsyesika> yeh it's been scrapped now[21:32:17] <Tsyesika> dylan in A-levels/6th form[21:32:28] <dylan> oh[21:32:33] <Tsyesika> if your parents were poor enough you got 10 pounds, 20 pounds or 30 pounds per week[21:33:10] <dylan> i used fedora once and it made me cry. because it deleted my backup partitions which contained a KeePassX database.[21:33:19] <dylan> lols.[21:33:31] <dylan> oh i have college soon :)[21:33:39] <dylan> starting on the 3rd :)[21:34:08] <Tsyesika> dylan how's the dd going[21:34:14] <Tsyesika> dylan i'm back to university on the 19th[21:34:15] <Tsyesika> :P[21:34:23] <dylan> No output yet[21:34:31] <dylan> but my pendrive is flashing[21:34:36] <dylan> soo it's doing something[21:34:37] <dylan> >.<[21:34:46] <jjido> how you guys get so angry at a computer?[21:35:10] <dylan> i don't know, i was 14 - 15 at the time[21:35:16] <jjido> dylan: killall -INFO dd[21:35:35] <dylan> heh ... it's doing something[21:35:38] <Tsyesika> jjido i don't get angry at computers[21:35:45] <Tsyesika> i get serious road rage tho[21:35:49] <Tsyesika> like really bad[21:36:02] <dylan> we need a car fueled on anger[21:36:26] <jjido> Tsyesika: so the coffees and beer were an accident?[21:36:54] <Tsyesika> jjido yeh[21:37:04] <Tsyesika> drinking and knock them over[21:38:12] <dylan> yeah.. i was kinda young when i got mad.. i still get mad at the pc a little but not enough to damage it... unless it's a computer running windows[21:38:27] <dylan> i almost threw my windows pc out the window..[21:38:35] <dylan> and that's why it's called windows :)[21:39:26] <dylan> ok bad joke[21:39:57] *** jjido_ has joined #haiku[21:40:37] *** jjido has quit IRC[21:43:33] <dylan> 1646592+0 records in 1646592+0 records out 843055104 bytes transferred in 1167.610392 secs (722035 bytes/sec)[21:44:13] <dylan> :)[21:46:05] <dylan> ok so i'll try to boot now[21:46:12] <dylan> be back soon to tell you guys the results :)[21:46:16] <dylan> exit[21:46:17] <dylan> oops[21:46:19] *** dylan has quit IRC[21:51:17] *** MatthewH12 has joined #haiku[21:56:49] *** vezhlys has joined #haiku[21:57:43] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[22:00:45] *** jjido has joined #haiku[22:00:56] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[22:03:49] *** dylan has joined #haiku[22:03:54] <dylan> ok[22:03:55] <dylan> back[22:04:04] *** jjido_ has quit IRC[22:04:28] <dylan> so good news and bad news[22:04:38] <dylan> 1) it booted up sucessfully.[22:04:50] <dylan> 2) after like 2 minutes it Kernel paniced.[22:05:12] <dylan> 3) when I tried to reboot into it, it gave me another kernel panic[22:05:45] <dylan> Tsyesika:[22:06:58] <PulkoMandy> wrote down the message ?[22:07:19] <dylan> Btw how does wireless work in Haiku? it kernel paniced after it set up my wireless card[22:07:20] <dylan> yeah[22:07:23] <Tsyesika> hey sorry[22:07:49] <Tsyesika> dylan take a photo of the kernel panic (so you can see the text)[22:08:08] <dylan> i did.[22:09:12] <Tsyesika> awesome[22:09:25] <Tsyesika> check on http://dev.haiku-os.org and see if it's been reported[22:09:27] <Tsyesika> if not, report it[22:09:52] <dylan> hm[22:10:35] <dylan> ok[22:10:56] *** luko has joined #haiku[22:11:38] <dylan> I'll try if i can recreate the bug first?[22:11:48] <dylan> and how*[22:12:33] <Tsyesika> dylan do what you did the first time[22:12:35] <luko> hi[22:12:38] <Tsyesika> see if it happens again[22:12:39] <Tsyesika> hey luko[22:14:04] <dylan> well i remember that a notification popped up saying configuring /dev/bcm650x/ (strange as i thought i had a different bcmxxxx) .. and rearranging the icons on the desktop[22:15:06] <PulkoMandy> even if it happened only once, it isn't expected unless you have an hardware problem[22:15:40] <dylan> I see. I couldn't boot in the second time after.[22:16:59] <dylan> the second time it came up with PANIC: could not write block 9.. I'll try again and see what happens.[22:19:50] <dylan> oops. I meant to say : PANIC: Could not write back block 9 (Operation timed out) .. and then there's kernel stack number 0x81c2c000 to 0x81c300000.[22:21:28] <Tsyesika> i'll have a quick look dylan[22:21:52] <PulkoMandy> looks like your usb drive has a problem there[22:21:53] <Tsyesika> back block 9[22:22:17] <dylan> should i try another pendrive?[22:22:22] <Tsyesika> no hold on[22:22:28] <dylan> ok.[22:23:20] <Tsyesika> https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/8909 <-- that sounds similar but not OP time out[22:24:30] <dylan> similar to what happened to when i booted the second time.[22:25:21] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[22:26:19] *** oco2 has joined #haiku[22:33:39] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[22:36:23] *** mitknil has quit IRC[22:52:11] <Tsyesika> dylan well if you can't see the issue on dev.haiku-os.org you should report it :)[23:01:58] *** Soft has joined #haiku[23:04:37] <dylan> ok[23:04:44] <dylan> by the way[23:04:46] <dylan> Tsyesika:[23:04:53] <dylan> how do i join a network?[23:05:16] <Tsyesika> dylan there should be a network applet in the deskbar[23:05:24] <dylan> ah[23:05:27] <dylan> all it said[23:05:27] <Tsyesika> click on it, it should list all of them[23:05:34] <dylan> was /dev/bcm650x[23:05:39] <dylan> and nothing else[23:05:39] <Tsyesika> :s[23:05:42] <dylan> well i'll try again[23:05:43] <PulkoMandy> that's not it[23:05:53] <Tsyesika> PulkoMandy could it be the wired interface[23:05:56] <PulkoMandy> you can get to it by deskbar>preferences>network as well[23:06:03] <dylan> i'm not sure how to do things in this os[23:06:04] <dylan> lol[23:06:05] <dylan> ok[23:06:07] <dylan> i'lltry[23:06:13] <dylan> brb need to boot into it.[23:06:32] <PulkoMandy> time to sleep for me[23:06:35] <PulkoMandy> 'night[23:06:38] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:06:53] <dylan> night[23:06:59] <Tsyesika> dylan is this a mac?[23:07:06] *** dylan has quit IRC[23:07:14] <Tsyesika> I guess so[23:10:33] <jjido> Tsyesika: yes he is trying on his Mac[23:12:00] *** johnny_b has quit IRC[23:14:08] *** Sintendo has quit IRC[23:14:34] *** debianin has joined #haiku[23:16:17] *** debianin has left #haiku[23:22:50] *** pfoetche1 is now known as pfoetchen[23:23:25] *** happy4crazy has quit IRC[23:26:46] *** stpere has quit IRC[23:27:31] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[23:28:27] *** dylan has joined #haiku[23:28:38] <dylan> Hi Tsyesika[23:28:56] <dylan> ok it turned out that it didn't kernel panic this time :)[23:29:01] <dylan> but still no wifi :([23:29:28] <dylan> Haiku: /dev/net/bcm570x : No Link[23:30:47] <Tsyesika> dylan which mac is it?[23:31:20] *** panchoOK has joined #haiku[23:31:29] <dylan> System Information: Model: MacBook Pro (15-inch Mid-2012) • CPU: Intel Core i7-3615QM (8 Cores) @ 2.30 GHz • L2: 262.14 KB • L3: 6.29 MB • Memory: 4.00 GB • Uptime: 5 Minutes • Disk Space: Total: 498.91 GB; Free: 420.72 GB • Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M • Screen Resolution: 1440 x 900 • Load: 14% • OS: Mac OS X 10.8.1 (Mountain Lion) (Build 12B19)[23:31:36] <jessicah> :o[23:31:44] <jessicah> haiku boots on your mac??[23:31:48] <dylan> yes.[23:31:51] <jessicah> and doesn't die???[23:32:04] <dylan> yup it did first time around[23:32:14] <dylan> second attempt it worked.[23:32:17] <dylan> however no wifi[23:32:18] <dylan> :([23:32:23] <Tsyesika> dylan still report the bug if you have the info[23:32:33] <Tsyesika> maybe do another search see if it's there[23:32:44] <jessicah> you used the alpha4-rc?[23:33:04] <dylan> yeah[23:33:12] <dylan> the alpha4-rc thing[23:33:30] <dylan> i still have like the info for the second bootup[23:33:35] <dylan> :<[23:33:48] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[23:34:02] <dylan> cant find it for the first bootup .. my camera sometimes doesnt save photos. aand this is when it gets annoying[23:34:02] <dylan> :L[23:34:40] <dylan> hm.[23:34:51] <dylan> maybe i need ndiswrapper?[23:35:10] <dylan> if haiku has that somewhere[23:36:19] <jessicah> so you got hrev1alpha4-44577?[23:36:48] <dylan> yes[23:36:53] <dylan> hrevr[23:37:19] *** Spacewalker has quit IRC[23:37:35] <jessicah> i've tried soooo many images on my mac that i'd pretty much given up trying[23:38:20] *** Ingenu has left #haiku[23:39:08] <dylan> hm][23:39:23] <dylan> i got it onto a memory stick[23:39:54] <dylan> like the first time i boot up there is a white bar on the top of the screen. second time boots up fine and can use the system[23:40:07] <dylan> i'm going to get a driver off of the haiku softwarewebsite[23:40:48] <dylan> no wpa supplicant.. hm[23:41:00] <dylan> S:[23:42:36] <jessicah> oh it worked the second time?[23:42:38] <jessicah> weird[23:42:40] <jessicah> okay[23:42:41] <dylan> Interfaces:[23:42:41] <dylan> en1:[23:42:42] <dylan> Card Type:AirPort Extreme (0x14E4, 0xF5)[23:42:42] <dylan> Firmware Version:Broadcom BCM43xx 1.0 (5.106.98.81.21)[23:42:44] <dylan> MAC Address:10:40:f3:eb:56:48[23:42:48] <dylan> Locale:ETSI[23:42:51] <dylan> Country Code:GB[23:42:54] <dylan> Supported PHY Modes:802.11 a/b/g/n[23:42:55] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[23:43:07] <dylan> so i have no idea which BCM43 card it is[23:43:18] <dylan> so i'm really confused[23:43:19] <dylan> XD[23:43:21] *** Barrett has quit IRC[23:43:47] <jessicah> i have no idea[23:44:58] <jjido> dylan: it is there: 0x14E4, 0xF5[23:45:07] <dylan> oh[23:45:19] <dylan> does that mean that it's bcm4314?[23:45:31] <jjido> one is the manufacturer code and the other is the product code[23:45:44] <jjido> nope, you have to look the codes up[23:47:19] *** fhein has quit IRC[23:51:13] <stargater> n8[23:51:34] *** stargater has quit IRC[23:52:38] *** kcj has joined #haiku[23:53:01] *** panchoOK has quit IRC[23:57:32] <dylan> hmm[23:57:38] <dylan> can't seem to find anything[23:57:51] <dylan> appart from lots of people complaining from mac kernel panics.[23:57:52] <dylan> XD[23:58:00] <Tsyesika> Report it then :) Give the info and erm the hardware you're using[23:58:03] <Tsyesika> what you were doing at the time[23:58:12] <Tsyesika> mention the release you were on[23:58:13] <dylan> hm[23:58:14] <dylan> ok[23:58:15] <dylan> ^^[23:59:16] *** dcase has quit IRC