August 5, 2012 
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August 5, 2012 [00:01:56] *** Luko has joined #haiku[00:02:00] <Luko> hi[00:02:08] *** Negr0_VoP2P has quit IRC[00:02:28] *** dcase has quit IRC[00:02:49] *** Negr0_VoP2P has joined #haiku[00:06:55] *** Luko has quit IRC[00:07:59] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[00:08:35] *** guna has left #haiku[00:13:21] <netczar> is there an emacs port?[00:16:35] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[00:17:52] <augiedoggie> maybe[00:18:38] <augiedoggie> netczar: http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/post_your_haiku_screenshot#comment-23204[00:22:14] *** Luko has joined #haiku[00:24:35] *** Postumus has quit IRC[00:25:39] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[00:25:54] *** _0x0dev has joined #haiku[00:32:04] *** BitPuffin has joined #haiku[00:34:31] *** XenoDuck has quit IRC[00:35:28] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[00:36:44] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[00:46:10] *** johnny_b has quit IRC[00:50:10] *** Luko has quit IRC[00:55:52] *** _0x0dev has quit IRC[00:59:11] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[00:59:18] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[01:04:00] *** _0x0dev has joined #haiku[01:04:04] *** jjido has quit IRC[01:04:51] *** swarfega is now known as swarfega[away][01:07:36] <CIA-63> haiku.master: bonefish * hrev44469 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=9b008d3 :[01:07:36] <CIA-63> Debugger CLI: Add a bunch of new commands [5 commits][01:07:36] <CIA-63> * "thread": prints/sets the current thread.[01:07:36] <CIA-63> * "continue", "stop": continue/stop the current thread.[01:07:36] <CIA-63> * "sc"/"bt": Print a stack trace for the current thread. Very basic yet.[01:07:52] *** happy4crazy has quit IRC[01:15:37] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[01:24:43] *** Megaf has quit IRC[01:33:55] *** Ingenu has left #haiku[01:37:09] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[01:44:37] *** karvjorm has joined #haiku[01:47:32] <karvjorm> A stupid question: how to use haikuporter? Wiki does not answer to my problem.[01:48:07] <karvjorm> I would like to test sqlite with the present source code.[01:48:10] *** Megaf has quit IRC[01:48:26] *** adamk has quit IRC[01:48:27] *** _0x0dev has quit IRC[01:53:33] *** _0x0dev has joined #haiku[01:54:21] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[02:00:27] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[02:04:22] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[02:04:23] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[02:04:30] *** wbsd has quit IRC[02:13:32] *** qptain_Nemo has quit IRC[02:17:24] *** rdmr has quit IRC[02:17:42] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[02:18:47] *** qptain_Nemo has joined #haiku[02:21:48] *** qptain_Nemo has quit IRC[02:25:34] *** qptain_Nemo has joined #haiku[02:31:11] *** Negr0_VoP2P has quit IRC[02:42:33] *** BitPuffin has quit IRC[02:49:32] <CIA-63> pdziepak-github.nfs4: pdziepak-github * 94c47dc6a85fa8c028382eb3b54e04f40d08590c : nfs4: Add basic RPC level support for callbacks[02:57:50] *** Cian has joined #haiku[02:59:39] *** wbsd has joined #haiku[03:04:14] *** wbsd has quit IRC[03:08:24] *** _0x0dev has quit IRC[03:13:36] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[03:15:57] *** qptain_Nemo has quit IRC[03:17:09] *** SMCollins has joined #haiku[03:17:49] *** wbsd has joined #haiku[03:21:29] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[03:24:09] *** rdmr has quit IRC[03:25:58] *** _0x0dev has joined #haiku[03:38:33] *** netczar has quit IRC[03:49:15] <CIA-63> mmadia-github.separate-build-environment: mmadia-github * 6bdb75c759be19678c57f298d7a4c7085e1e351f :[03:49:15] <CIA-63> Redo target_stdint.h[03:49:15] <CIA-63> Define all prefixed versions conditionally and unprefixed versions[03:49:15] <CIA-63> unconditionally (ifndef _HAIKU_BUILD_LIBROOT_FUNCTION_WRAPPER).[04:01:56] *** _0x0dev has quit IRC[04:09:30] *** mmadia has quit IRC[04:13:53] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[04:17:46] *** _0x0dev has joined #haiku[04:26:42] *** Spelln has quit IRC[04:35:52] *** Cian2 has joined #haiku[04:37:28] *** Cian has quit IRC[04:40:07] *** happy4crazy has quit IRC[04:44:25] <SMCollins> does anyone know what happened to the qt-haiku.ru site ?[04:45:35] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[04:49:14] <SMCollins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBbvuUWdlWI <---- totally hooked on this, Finally c++ in a format I retain[04:49:14] <CIA-63> pdziepak-github.nfs4: pdziepak-github * feb15cc63ce6f32dc73e8322c165266d4a11b149 : nfs4: Reply to incorrect and CB_NULL callback requests [2 commits][04:50:22] *** Beretta021 has joined #haiku[04:59:11] <hamishm> the char data type takes up 'about' 1 byte of space :D[05:00:04] <SMCollins> hamish, theres a whole series of these tutorials, and finnally, someone gets it to click for me, which is great ![05:03:14] <hamishm> that's cool[05:04:42] <jessicah> nothing's exact in this world, hamishm :p[05:05:04] <SMCollins> ask weights and measures to get you the answer for 1 unit[05:05:19] <SMCollins> and the variance of each standard for that unit[05:08:19] * augiedoggie prefers his chars to be 7 bits[05:08:55] <SMCollins> why not 9 bits?[05:09:11] <augiedoggie> 7 is cooler, it's prime[05:09:30] <SMCollins> life would have been much easier , if they had started with a base 10 numbering system[05:09:39] <SMCollins> but they didn't want to spend money on the extra bits[05:09:50] <SMCollins> 7 is a good number[05:13:31] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[05:15:06] <jessicah> 7 is all you need for ascii :)[05:15:40] <SMCollins> I wasn't joking about the 8 bit thing though[05:17:07] <hamishm> hmm I was always under the impression that a byte wasn't defined as 8 bits[05:17:28] <hamishm> but as the size needed for a char. At least by the C spec[05:18:16] <jessicah> there was a time where systems had other sizes for such things[05:19:27] <SMCollins> yeah, back when they had just figured out the most basic of asic, they sort of just got behind 8 bit as a standard however. Becuase they were cheap, I have no reason to argue with my grandfather on this, he was working in the labs when this shit was all invented.[05:25:21] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[05:34:16] *** Megaf has quit IRC[05:46:55] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[05:55:37] *** Megaf has quit IRC[06:03:12] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[06:08:37] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[06:09:32] *** jprostko has joined #haiku[06:14:31] *** slubman has quit IRC[06:15:04] *** slubman has joined #haiku[06:19:25] *** slubman has quit IRC[06:19:44] *** slubman has joined #haiku[06:19:54] *** Megaf has quit IRC[06:23:37] *** Alam_Squeeze has quit IRC[06:25:35] *** Alam_Squeeze has joined #haiku[06:26:58] *** slubman has quit IRC[06:27:04] *** slubman_ has joined #haiku[06:27:06] *** DraX has quit IRC[06:27:24] *** DraX has joined #haiku[06:27:25] *** DraX has joined #haiku[06:30:44] *** leavengood has joined #haiku[06:32:52] *** _0x0dev has quit IRC[06:36:55] *** slubman_ has quit IRC[06:46:25] *** slubman has joined #haiku[06:51:53] *** mikaelj_ has joined #haiku[06:51:57] *** mikaelj has quit IRC[06:51:59] *** diver has quit IRC[06:52:47] <jstressman> http://macperformanceguide.com/MountainLion-SaveAs-data-destruction.html[06:52:51] <jstressman> is this true? O_O[06:54:20] <leavengood> I'm sure[06:54:23] <jstressman> I don't own any Macs because I think they're a draconian control obsessed house of evil that makes the heydey of antitrust Microsoft look like a bunch of communist hippies by contrast.... so I can't test/verify. :P[06:54:38] <leavengood> I think Apple is a year away from totally jumping the shark on OS X[06:55:05] <jstressman> I just think the major desktop operating systems are failing to distinguish between tablets etc, and desktops.[06:55:26] <leavengood> Yeah I tend to agree, though I just bought a MacBook because I was sick of mediocre Windows hardware and having to install Linux for work[06:55:32] <jstressman> so they're making gimmicky mobile OS choices and replacing tried and true desktop paradigms with them.[06:55:40] <leavengood> yeah[06:55:46] <leavengood> Win8 is going to be a disaster[06:56:02] <leavengood> I think even after all this time, Haiku has some chance because the other guys are just getting stupid[06:56:20] <jstressman> :)[06:56:31] <jstressman> that's part of what I love about it.[06:56:40] <SMCollins> maxosx/win8, these companies are trying to force themslves out of the market place[06:58:18] <AlienSoldier> eventually they will add micro transaction to pay for OS feature[06:58:48] <AlienSoldier> want copy paste? pay 1$[06:59:49] <SMCollins> thats where they are heading, for sure[06:59:56] <leavengood> yeah[07:01:12] <SMCollins> I think there is room for a good open alternative, IF is has the right mix of applications. the studio houses are dreding having to be pushed into the app store. Have you seen Steam, they are running as hard and as fast as they can to linux, thats a huge company[07:02:17] <CIA-63> haiku.master: kallisti5 * hrev44470 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=694eca3 :[07:02:17] <CIA-63> radeon_hd: Add DP link_train_ce[07:02:17] <CIA-63> * First attempts at DisplayPort link training[07:02:17] <CIA-63> clock equalization.[07:02:18] <CIA-63> * Add DP define to detect equalization state[07:02:18] <CIA-63> * Working towards resolving #8626[07:02:33] <AlienSoldier> one of the difference with pre 2000 era is that many if not most of studio house don't make a $, especially games studio but not it touch mostly all programming.[07:02:35] <leavengood> SMCollins: yeah I saw that[07:02:50] <AlienSoldier> *now[07:02:58] <SMCollins> yeah, Valve wants out now, which I suspect means microsoft plans to ram a app store up everyones ass[07:04:01] <SMCollins> and most 3rd partys are not going to tolerate getting screwed by microsofts taking their margins[07:05:18] *** dimonov has quit IRC[07:05:36] <leavengood> yeah, there is an app store and it is like a 30% margin[07:05:44] <leavengood> Microsoft app store planned[07:05:53] <jstressman> fffff that.[07:05:55] <leavengood> hey if Apple can do it, why not MS?[07:06:01] <leavengood> hehe[07:06:07] <jstressman> right. that's my view on things like the UEFI etc as well.[07:06:26] <jstressman> MS saw how Apple was doing vendor lock-in on its devices and even pushing it on the desktop, and MS got jealous.[07:06:30] <AlienSoldier> MS for me now stand for multiple sclerosis[07:06:44] <jstressman> so it is pushing it on ARM and hoping to eventually push it on the desktop on X86 etc.[07:06:50] <jstressman> locking users in as media consumers.[07:06:57] <jstressman> and killing the era of general purpose PCs.[07:07:05] <jstressman> in my opinion of course. ;)[07:07:10] <SMCollins> this app store thing, is why valve is running for the hills, those people are not going to give microsoft money, the margin are not there. They would be money ahead to just give microsoft money, and skip the app store and go out of business more then likely[07:07:31] *** dimonov has joined #haiku[07:07:39] <SMCollins> jstressman: Microsoft executives are looking at apples Trillion dollar market cap[07:09:15] <AlienSoldier> i don't beleive cap much there days, M$ stock was under $24 not long ago and now it's up while the company was in the red and lot of stuff failed. Those cap are all coocked.[07:09:36] <jessicah> haiku for the desktop![07:10:17] <jstressman> I just need a better browser, some quality graphics apps, and I should be mostly good to go.[07:10:18] * SMCollins seconds haiku for the desktop[07:10:51] <jstressman> and maybe Steam for Haiku. ;) so I can play Shogun 2. ^_^[07:10:53] <leavengood> Give me a few months after the alpha 4 release and I'll get Web+ whipped into shape[07:10:57] <SMCollins> jstressman: what we should do, is show 3rd party studios, that we want quality apps, and are willing to buy them in quantityts[07:11:18] <jstressman> leavengood: awesome :D :D[07:11:32] * SMCollins eyeballs leavengood[07:11:45] <jessicah> buy them in quantities? who has the money to do that?[07:11:46] <SMCollins> whachu talkin bout leavengood[07:11:47] <leavengood> aldeck moved it over the hump, so things are easier now[07:12:18] <SMCollins> jessicah: that mean, no studio will look at haiku unless we are going to allow them to make a significant profit[07:13:09] <SMCollins> if they don't make a good enough profit, no big 3rd party apps[07:13:54] * SMCollins hints that hammond would work with a haiku dev to get GOBE 3.0 back into circulation[07:15:30] <jessicah> is gobe any good?[07:15:55] <SMCollins> shit yeah, I've got it for windows, great office application[07:16:05] <AlienSoldier> i liked it[07:16:11] <AlienSoldier> never used 3.0[07:16:11] <SMCollins> excelent[07:16:15] <SMCollins> its great[07:16:21] <jessicah> gobe for windows?[07:16:25] <SMCollins> pisses me off microsoft office got better ratings[07:16:31] <SMCollins> yeah, its available on cnet[07:17:20] <jessicah> this i have to investigate[07:17:36] <SMCollins> hang a sec[07:17:43] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[07:18:19] <SMCollins> http://download.cnet.com/GoBeProductive/3000-2064_4-10069275.html[07:18:20] *** MatthewH12 has quit IRC[07:20:17] <jessicah> wow, so old school[07:20:58] <SMCollins> its a good application, I'll have to fire it up to check the margin issue though[07:21:52] <SMCollins> I've got a pretty ugly page render with webpositive, should the ticket go in the regular trac or is there a sperate trac for webpositive ?[07:22:37] <jessicah> goes in regular trac iirc[07:22:51] <jessicah> web+ is listed under apps in regular trac[07:24:37] <SMCollins> done[07:25:13] <SMCollins> off to bed, its been a long week[07:25:14] <SMCollins> ttyl[07:26:01] *** SMCollins has quit IRC[07:31:02] *** leavengood has quit IRC[07:35:48] *** duvjones has joined #haiku[07:47:16] *** slubman has quit IRC[07:52:09] *** nsuperbus has joined #haiku[08:20:51] *** slubman has joined #haiku[08:28:00] *** kcj has joined #haiku[08:30:34] *** guna has joined #haiku[08:30:38] *** ksx4system has quit IRC[08:38:09] *** slubman has quit IRC[08:39:31] *** slubman has joined #haiku[08:39:39] *** ksx4system has joined #haiku[08:40:34] *** jprostko has quit IRC[08:54:10] *** guna has quit IRC[08:58:01] *** stargater has joined #haiku[08:58:06] <stargater> moin[08:58:28] <stargater> arfonzo: around?[08:59:42] <stargater> i need a q3 for haiku! or src to compile self[09:00:08] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[09:00:18] <stargater> moin humdinger[09:00:31] <humdinger> hullo[09:08:02] *** wbsd has quit IRC[09:12:07] *** Negr0_VoP2P has joined #haiku[09:12:12] <jstressman> http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=103196&p=348894#p348894[09:12:19] <jstressman> maybe I'll get banned on the VLC forum. *sigh*[09:12:38] <jstressman> after being told to basically shut up and deal with it a few times, I kind of lost my temper. :/[09:13:01] <jstressman> stargater: Q3?[09:14:03] <stargater> quake3[09:16:41] <jstressman> ah... would it matter without hardware acceleration?[09:18:11] <jstressman> stargater: can't you download from http://ioquake3.org/ and try compiling it?[09:20:36] <jstressman> although if he made changes to the source to get it to compile under Haiku, he needs to release that source along with the binary. :/ It's GPLv2.[09:21:39] *** dcase has joined #haiku[09:27:05] <stargater> jstressman: ok i check ist out[09:29:14] <jstressman> do you have the game files? You'll need them as well. (the baseq3 stuff... all the maps, etc.)[09:33:42] <stargater> yes i have[09:33:59] <stargater> have it to ?[09:34:44] <jstressman> I have them. :)[09:35:07] <jstressman> but I won't be booting Haiku on the physical hardware for probably another 2 weeks.[09:35:24] <jstressman> busy in windows with work stuff. so I'm only doing Haiku in virtualbox.[09:35:33] <jstressman> and apparently Q3 doesn't work under vbox.[09:36:14] <stargater> ah ok[09:41:38] <jezek2> jstressman: oh they changed it so it's way more progressive? nice, I had trouble increasing the maximum volume level in VLC[09:42:07] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[09:42:14] <stargater> moin PulkoMandy[09:42:26] <jstressman> jezek2: yeah, but now if you do that it turns to distorted garbage for any louder sounds, bass, etc.[09:42:31] <jezek2> some videos are waaay too quiet so 800% is not unusual[09:42:32] <jezek2> :)[09:42:43] <jstressman> jezek2: is there some reason you couldn't use your actual volume knobs?[09:42:52] <jezek2> they're at maximum[09:42:52] <jstressman> you're one of the people that made them ruin VLC. :P[09:42:57] <jezek2> I use headphones[09:43:14] <jezek2> and I wouldn't want to make it louder tbh ;)[09:43:20] <jstressman> I have a receiver on my desk that I run my audio through.[09:43:26] <jezek2> with that volume setting I fix the underlying video[09:43:28] <jezek2> :)[09:44:53] <jezek2> well for the affected videos with the 800% there is no distortion[09:45:43] <jstressman> I'm still going to use VLC, since I've found ways to work around their stupid design.. but I now consider their devs to be stubborn, closed minded pricks who make poor design choices.[09:45:55] <jstressman> jezek2: yeah, if the video is super quiet it wouldn't...[09:46:15] <jstressman> but for normal videos, or especially stuff with nice bass or loud sounds, it's horrible.[09:46:25] <jstressman> normal tv shows are ruined at full volume, music is ruined, etc.[09:47:12] <jstressman> if they're going to tell you not to use that, and only use your physical speaker volume knobs or whatever, then they shouldn't offer a "feature" they don't want you to use because its default behavior is to ruin audio fidelity.[09:47:30] <jstressman> and if you MUST have it, then put it under the equalizer. NOT as the default.[09:47:49] <jstressman> then users with crappy hardware can enable that manually and crank up the levels, knowing full well what they're getting themselves into.[09:47:51] <jezek2> jstressman: ok, just checked it, in VLC I can go max 200% for some reason, but due to bug with using wheel on mouse I can go up to 400%, still too quite[09:47:54] <jezek2> *quiet[09:48:27] <jstressman> don't take the default behavior of the past several years, make a huge change that is invisible to users, and treat them like crap when they complain that something changed and now audio sounds like garbage at the same level it used to sound fine.[09:48:30] <jezek2> in smplayer I do 100% (but in settings I have max amplification 1200)[09:48:32] <jstressman> which is what they did.[09:48:36] <jezek2> then it's good :)[09:49:05] <jstressman> see, you knew what you were getting yourself into. ;)[09:49:06] <jezek2> jstressman: full volume or 100% volume?[09:49:18] <CIA-63> xyzzy-github.x86_64: xyzzy-github * f4294645358d2eeec007d93493f092581e9bb504 : User symbol lookup works now on x86_64. [3 commits][09:49:23] <jezek2> 100% being without change[09:49:24] <jezek2> :)[09:50:06] <jstressman> full volume. as I said.[09:50:20] <jezek2> ah so they made 100% = amplified?[09:50:23] <jstressman> 100% is identical on both versions (as I wrote)[09:50:26] <jstressman> no.[09:50:29] <jezek2> hmm[09:50:30] <jstressman> read my post. :P[09:50:33] <jezek2> so why you don't just use 100%?[09:50:41] <jstressman> I even put the section in large size. ;)[09:51:02] <jezek2> and adjust to beyond 100% only when you need it[09:51:11] <jstressman> because making a user carefully navigate to the middle of their volume bar, ruin sound if it goes much beyond that, and tell them not to use the volume bar you give them... is stupid.[09:51:44] <jstressman> if you tell them to only use their speaker volume, then don't give them a crappy software version as the default and then tell them not to use it.[09:51:56] <jezek2> how exactly is it different from VLC 1.x, beyond using other formula for computing >100% volume?[09:52:16] <jstressman> that's how. the change is invisible to the users.[09:52:23] <jezek2> they adjust?[09:52:27] <jstressman> 200% then and 200% now are entirely different, but the users have no idea of that.[09:52:33] <jstressman> it worked before, now it sound like crap.[09:52:37] <jezek2> so you use I don't know 120% with new version[09:52:39] <jezek2> after all[09:52:45] <jezek2> you set it to volume you're comfortable with[09:52:47] <jezek2> not to some number[09:52:48] <jstressman> because they made it invisibly crank the audio up to an effective level of 800%.[09:52:52] <jezek2> the only exception is 100%[09:53:04] <jezek2> that should lead in exactly the same as source data[09:53:12] <jstressman> *facepalm*[09:53:31] <jezek2> or is it by default on maximum (beyond 100%?)[09:53:33] <jezek2> :)[09:53:37] <jstressman> please go read my post carefully and I explain why expecting such behavior from users, as well as doing it that way at all, are all idiotic and failures of design.[09:57:04] <jezek2> hmm[09:57:25] <jezek2> I would say that VLC is for advanced users[09:57:32] <jezek2> that's why you can set many details in menus and stuff[09:57:42] <jezek2> mostly to fix bad videos[09:57:48] <jezek2> there are *lot* of bad videos out there[09:58:20] <jezek2> also there can be reason for having quiter audio, to allow bigger dynamic range[09:58:40] <jezek2> that's where using 100% and cranking up the volume slider on speakers comes into the part[09:58:46] <jezek2> to get best quality[09:59:41] <jezek2> but you have also lot of users on not so great HW, and SW volume adjusting is the only way, or the sound is way too much quiet[10:01:33] <jezek2> btw haiku and ubuntu also allow to go beyond 100% :P[10:01:44] *** negusnyul has joined #haiku[10:01:53] <jezek2> in the same sense as VLC using the same slider and by default[10:02:58] <jezek2> and even normal users do the most logical thing with that slider... use the value that's most comfortable for them[10:03:15] <jezek2> they quickly learn that going around 100% is the way to go ;)[10:03:24] <jezek2> it's also the default[10:03:30] <PulkoMandy> in haiku the slider sticks to the 100% bar automatically[10:03:41] <PulkoMandy> in vlc you have to use the tooltip to know where you are IIRC[10:03:45] <jezek2> yes there is some "dead zone" around 100%[10:03:53] <PulkoMandy> and the slider goes from 0 to 200% inless than 50 pixels[10:03:59] <PulkoMandy> which makes it not so easy[10:04:07] <jezek2> not sure of vlc 2, but in 1 it shows the volume in percent[10:04:27] <PulkoMandy> well yes, might not be a tooltip[10:04:45] <PulkoMandy> but the 100% is very hard to reach with a touchpad :)[10:05:04] <jezek2> actually I don't think VLC is great as general media player, it has too many options, it's quite obscure in things[10:05:15] <jezek2> for users something like MediaPlayer in haiku is much more suited[10:05:42] <jezek2> but for VLC it's good, because it's targetted to advanced users, so they can tweak everything[10:05:43] <PulkoMandy> that's why we bundle MediaPlayer in Haiku[10:05:55] <PulkoMandy> but it lacks streaming and DVD playback :/[10:06:16] <jezek2> but still I like VLC because I can fix all the mistakes in videos[10:06:21] <jezek2> easily go beyond 100% volume[10:06:35] <jezek2> and hearing they make the function more progressive I welcome that[10:06:38] <jezek2> in 2.x[10:06:57] <jezek2> fix bad aspect ratio, still I miss the ability to set arbitrary aspect ratio[10:09:25] <jezek2> jstressman: so no, while your critic is good, it's not good for VLC because they have different target audience / project goals[10:10:22] <jstressman> their target audience is general users on multiple platforms who want a good catch all video player with built in codecs.[10:10:24] <jstressman> easy peasy.[10:10:35] <jstressman> you're making things up I think when you claim that it's only for advanced users.[10:10:56] <jezek2> sure, non advanced can use it too[10:10:56] <jstressman> so the volume controls on the main volume control are now stupid and broken.[10:11:03] <jezek2> it's not done in some inaccesible way[10:11:05] <jstressman> I don't care if you make the EQ able to do that.[10:11:12] <jezek2> but it's certainly optimized for advanced users[10:11:55] <jezek2> actually I hate that for just changing brightness/gamma I must go to some poorly done popup window ;)[10:12:14] <jezek2> (s)mplayer is better in that :)[10:13:39] <jezek2> most functions accessible directly with keys[10:13:54] <jezek2> I don't even use GUI at all with it on linux[10:14:28] <jezek2> the GUI is always annoying a bit ;)[10:19:07] <jezek2> jstressman: btw where do you read that it's intended for general users? I see lot of talk about opensource, supporing lot of codecs, but nothing that would imply "easy usage" or something ;)[10:19:27] <jezek2> from feature set it's definitelly optimized for advanced users[10:20:27] *** swarfega[away] is now known as swarfega[10:20:33] *** sarcas has joined #haiku[10:20:58] <jezek2> it's often quoted as being swiss army knife, that's not ordinary knife either :P[10:21:16] <jstressman> Features Simple, fast and powerful media player.[10:21:30] <jstressman> very first feature listed. simple. not advanced. that crap belongs under options menus etc.[10:21:48] <jstressman> not as the default volume behavior, one of the simplest and most used controls outside of the play button.[10:22:39] <jstressman> that's just basic usability I'm talking about. you don't have to have stupid design just because you offer advanced options in a software package.[10:22:53] *** Blub\w has joined #haiku[10:24:38] <jezek2> what's stupid about chaning volume to level that pleases you?[10:24:49] <jezek2> even for non-advanced users :)[10:25:11] <jezek2> I mean, the default is certainly 100%... you open some video[10:25:19] <jezek2> it is too loud, so you drag it to left a little until it's comfortable[10:25:30] <jezek2> it is too quite, so you drag it to the right a little untile it's comfortable[10:25:35] <jezek2> I fail to see issue here[10:25:58] <jezek2> *quiet[10:26:32] *** humdinger has quit IRC[10:27:04] <jezek2> haiku / ubuntu does the same, the only difference is that there is small "dead zone" on 100% that allows you to easily set it[10:27:12] <jezek2> maybe that's the real fix for that?[10:27:47] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[10:28:13] <jezek2> there is also slightly better color clue in these systems[10:28:29] <jezek2> 0-100% is green or just gray[10:28:34] <jezek2> and beyond 100% is red[10:28:41] <jezek2> while VLC has usual gradient[10:28:45] <jezek2> over the whole range[10:30:55] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[10:31:37] *** happy4crazy has quit IRC[10:32:41] *** Negr0_VoP2P has quit IRC[10:36:00] <PulkoMandy> Haiku also store the volume as an attribute of the video/music file[10:36:11] <PulkoMandy> and for the next file it will be at 100% again IIRC[10:36:25] <PulkoMandy> that's much more suitable for "fixing" a broken video[10:36:44] <jezek2> nice :)[10:39:09] *** jimage has joined #haiku[10:41:48] <jezek2> though on the other hand it amazes me how often they set bad aspect ratio on videos[10:42:06] <jezek2> and sometimes the youtube is source of the problem :/[10:42:44] <jezek2> though of course youtube is not designed to allow download videos and their player shows it ok[10:42:47] <jezek2> ;)[10:48:17] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[10:49:18] <CIA-63> xyzzy-github.x86_64: xyzzy-github * 3fed1a15f58e8d6fe6b492f3b94bb3625ffeddbd :[10:49:18] <CIA-63> Get app_server working on x86_64.[10:49:18] <CIA-63> With this commit, app_server now compiles and runs at boot! Nothing[10:49:18] <CIA-63> particularly interesting happens, just the blue background and a mouse[10:49:18] <CIA-63> pointer. Remote backends are broken and not compiled in, see #8834.[10:49:18] <CIA-63> Note that it won't be possible to build this quite yet, need to get[10:49:19] <CIA-63> the FreeType package uploaded.[10:54:41] <stargater> Acu[10:54:46] *** stargater has quit IRC[10:57:08] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.[10:57:55] <jstressman> jezek2: on ubuntu and Haiku etc, what is the maximum volume on the slider?[10:58:00] <jstressman> is it 2x?[10:58:05] <jstressman> like VLC 1.x was?[10:58:18] *** Postumus has joined #haiku[10:58:22] <jstressman> or is it 8x and terrible distortion on bass, loud sounds, etc? like VLC 2.x?[10:58:37] <jstressman> because I have no problem with allowing some software amplifying.[10:58:44] <jezek2> not sure, but I think it's more like vlc 1.x[10:58:52] <jezek2> though the part beyond 100% is quite smaller[10:58:58] <jstressman> but not when it's absurd and ruins the audio and your solution is to tell users not to use the default behavior.[10:59:13] <jstressman> that's my point. I never had any issue with 1.x and liked it.[10:59:20] <jezek2> it really depends on the source material[10:59:20] <jstressman> it was even nice to have that bit of software boost.[10:59:25] <jezek2> for some audio even going 110% ruins it[10:59:31] <jstressman> but they totally messed it up with 2.x and are refusing to own up to their screw up.[10:59:36] <jezek2> because it was prescaled before[10:59:49] <jezek2> and some stupid publishers do that even for official audio cds :/[11:00:50] <jezek2> like I read that some metallica album was shit on audio cd, but in the guitar hero game they used original without amplification and was much more quality ;)[11:02:06] *** Blub\w has quit IRC[11:02:19] <jstressman> you can "fix" VLC 2.x by enabling the EQ and manually putting all the sliders at 50% ;)[11:02:35] *** jjido has joined #haiku[11:02:38] <jstressman> that locks the effective range of the main volume slider to 0% - 100%[11:03:26] <jstressman> of course the better solution is to flip that around and make that the default setup, and allow them to alter the EQ if they want to enable amplification that probably will lead to distortion etc on most material.[11:03:41] <jstressman> but at this point their pride is apparently in the way.[11:04:16] <jezek2> or maybe yours :)[11:04:31] <jezek2> there are certainly users who appreciate the change[11:04:41] <jstressman> good for you.[11:04:42] <jezek2> also sound volume is quite non-linear thing[11:04:45] <jstressman> :)[11:04:54] <jezek2> so 200% is just slightly louder[11:05:03] <jezek2> not really 2x the way I would expect[11:05:57] <jstressman> just because you have crappy hardware and don't want to use an amp of some sort isn't a good excuse to make everyone use a volume slider that DOES mess up the volume on MOST normal material by default.[11:06:11] <jezek2> lol[11:06:14] <jezek2> it's not fixing HW[11:06:16] <jstressman> I'm certainly not the only person to complain about this.[11:06:18] <jezek2> but source material[11:06:26] <jstressman> every person that does gets told to basically shut up.[11:06:33] <jstressman> nobody was complaining before.[11:06:48] <jstressman> suddenly they mess it up and do an invisible change that causes really bad behavior.[11:06:55] <jezek2> I have quite loud maximum volume for the headphones btw[11:07:23] <jezek2> but if the video is way too quiet, it doesn't matter :)[11:07:30] <jstressman> so they try to get help figuring out why and are basically told to shut up and deal with it and not be idiots and actually dare to turn the volume up to the EXACT SAME LEVEL (from their standpoint) that worked perfectly fine for them before.[11:07:57] <jstressman> like I said, then use the EQ for your special use case.[11:08:27] <jezek2> also we're now just in circle with the issue... see I gave you some constructive ideas[11:08:41] <jezek2> so far your only issue is that you're used to the old behaviour and don't want change[11:08:43] <jstressman> no. I wrote that in my comment originally.[11:08:54] <jezek2> that makes more sense because of the non-linearity of sound volume[11:09:05] <jstressman> you haven't said jack except to make your little anecdotal case for why YOU like the stupid behavior.[11:11:09] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[11:11:30] <jstressman> "omg we're so cool, we're going to make the default audio volume slider go up to 800%, but call it 200% like before, when it actually went to 200%, and make it totally ruin the audio quality, which it didn't do before,[11:11:30] <jstressman> and when everyone gets confused and complains, we'll tell them they're stupid and not to actually use their volume slider because it's broken and we won't fix it because we're arrogant pricks."[11:11:40] <jstressman> fantastic.[11:12:11] <jezek2> then just don't use VLC if you don't like it :D[11:12:26] <jstressman> oh wow, that never crossed my mind![11:13:54] *** fhein has joined #haiku[11:13:57] <jstressman> (3:45:38 AM) jstressman: I'm still going to use VLC, since I've found ways to work around their stupid design.. but I now consider their devs to be stubborn, closed minded pricks who make poor design choices.[11:14:13] <jezek2> actually VLC is not of my favourite either[11:14:25] <jstressman> me refusing to use it doesn't change that it was a stupid design choice.[11:14:29] <jezek2> but mplayer don't work on some videos[11:14:33] <jezek2> so I have to use it[11:14:35] <jezek2> :)[11:14:46] <jstressman> specifically the 2.x change and subsequent refusal to admit that it created a problem.[11:14:49] <jezek2> it gets job done[11:14:57] <jstressman> I used to use mplayer.[11:14:59] <jezek2> and that's what matters for me ;)[11:15:10] <jstressman> mainly I was using VLC because of the easy gamma correction.[11:15:20] <jstressman> my old monitor was really dim, so I couldn't see dark videos.[11:15:31] <jstressman> but that just died yesterday, so it's kind of a moot point now.[11:16:09] <jstressman> VLC 2.x also introduced a big lag when changing the volume that wasn't present in 1.x.[11:16:32] <jstressman> someone really screwed the pooch on handling volume all around in 2.x and nobody wants to fess up to it and fix it.[11:16:55] <jstressman> they also have the problem where when you pause it just dumps the audio buffer or whatever and causes a bunch of popping and noise...[11:17:08] <jstressman> their response is just "well, you have crappy hardware. deal with it."[11:17:16] <jstressman> when none of the other media players have that problem.[11:17:23] <jstressman> I think MediaPlayer did, but it was fixed.[11:17:29] <jstressman> the VLC devs are just pricks.[11:19:13] <jezek2> well yeah sometimes the new versions are gradually worse and worse... I had to stick to some old version of some apps and run them in 'legacy' mode (meaning they get the job done as of now, but I don't count with them in next few years, hoping I find some replacement in the meantime)[11:19:36] <jstressman> right.[11:19:49] <jezek2> not that I didn't tried to use the new versions[11:20:05] <jstressman> Paint Shop Pro on windows turned into a bloated nasty DRM ridden mess after Corel bought it from Jasc. ;)[11:20:07] <jezek2> but so many cons and bugs... :)[11:20:07] *** Blub\w has joined #haiku[11:20:19] <jezek2> shift towards different control paradigm[11:20:22] <jezek2> like in blender case[11:20:30] <jezek2> I stick to 2.49b[11:20:39] <jstressman> VLC 2.x does have some nice features... but at the expense of some bad stuff coming in.[11:20:52] <jstressman> I went back to 1.x for awhile, but try 2.x again on each new release to see if it's gotten better.[11:21:40] <jstressman> I heard Blender did a pretty big change... so all the old workflow stuff you'd be used to was different?[11:21:52] <jstressman> I've never used it myself, so I'm not familiar with the layout etc.[11:22:10] <jezek2> yes it's different[11:22:21] <jezek2> but for some reasons people mostly like it[11:22:38] <jezek2> blender has certain appeal to it's "condensed" UI[11:22:42] <jezek2> right from beginning[11:22:45] *** stef_ is now known as stef[11:22:50] <jezek2> *had[11:23:05] <jezek2> but they converted it to some generic stuff that's buggy[11:23:16] <jezek2> ok I don't mind the buggy part, I just waited for few more releases[11:23:18] <jstressman> why did they make the change?[11:23:20] <jezek2> but it's still buggy :)[11:23:57] <jezek2> I think it occurs to most opensource projects without strong leadership[11:24:37] <jezek2> but then opensource blender is lead by original author I think[11:24:50] <jezek2> or someone from original team[11:26:01] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[11:26:11] <jezek2> well they moved toward bigger modularity/scriptability[11:26:19] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[11:26:26] <jezek2> and modifiability (like custom keyboard shortcuts)[11:26:43] <jezek2> so they needed more generic GUI for that[11:26:58] <jezek2> but they missed the big picture that so much freedom makes the app worse[11:27:10] *** jjido has quit IRC[11:27:14] <jezek2> but then again, most user like it / don't mind[11:27:17] <jezek2> *users[11:27:47] <jezek2> there was also big shift from smallish 4:3 monitors to big 16:9 monitors[11:28:16] <jezek2> for example on 4:3 it's quite unusable, and while the panels are configurable, the horizontal layout of tools is buggy[11:28:44] <jezek2> I think nobody tests it[11:28:47] <jezek2> :)[11:29:00] <OmniMancer> blender has always been renown for being hard to learn how to use[11:29:23] <jezek2> yeah, I certainly didn't like idea of using blender for my current project[11:29:30] <jezek2> but there is no alternative so I took the bullet[11:29:36] <jezek2> and after learning it[11:29:43] <jezek2> I realized how fluid it is for a professional user[11:29:54] <jezek2> much more than other 3d designers[11:30:03] <jezek2> well up to 2.49b :)[11:30:14] <OmniMancer> I do think its much easier to use when you know how to use it[11:30:27] * Anarchos should test if his version of blender for beos works on haiku[11:30:29] <OmniMancer> its just that its so hard to get to that point most people just dismiss it as bad[11:30:33] <jezek2> blender is (was?) basically what VIM is for text editors[11:30:33] <jezek2> :)[11:30:50] <OmniMancer> well its not emacs that's for sure :P[11:30:50] * Anarchos did mention he programs with vim ?[11:30:58] <jezek2> the thing is that the control scheme is unusual, but once you get the basics, it's very intuitive[11:31:21] <jezek2> you just press something in a new context[11:31:25] <jezek2> and it just works as intended[11:31:54] <OmniMancer> not enough C-x M-c M-butterfly[11:32:32] <OmniMancer> jezek2: it also doesn't help that half the shortcuts are undocumented :P[11:32:42] <OmniMancer> or insufficiently documented[11:32:48] <jezek2> hehe[11:33:02] <jezek2> that's why they added many features to menus, etc.[11:33:07] <jezek2> over the years[11:33:19] <jezek2> the version of blender I used in around 2000[11:33:22] <jezek2> was quite more barebone[11:33:23] <jezek2> :)[11:33:29] <OmniMancer> mhmm[11:33:44] <OmniMancer> they also added a search thing to the new UI[11:33:56] <jezek2> oh search thing is so total bullshit[11:34:07] <jezek2> but it got popular at some time[11:34:13] <OmniMancer> yea[11:34:29] <OmniMancer> but its there and semiuseful in extremely contrived circumstances :P[11:35:42] <OmniMancer> anyone wanna do something useful and explain to clang how to drive haiku's linker?[11:36:59] <Anarchos> OmniMancer who is clang ?[11:37:44] <OmniMancer> clang is the llvm C language frontend[11:38:13] <Anarchos> OmniMancer oh *this* clang? Oh uh no idea :)[11:39:37] <OmniMancer> it currently invokes gcc on haiku to do linking[11:41:17] <Anarchos> OmniMancer i don't know llvm[11:45:37] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[11:52:42] <Anarchos> I just updated , and while compiling i get cc1plus: Invalid option `-Wno-error=sequence-point'[11:52:46] <Anarchos> I use gcc2[11:53:02] <OmniMancer> compiling what?[11:53:31] <Anarchos> OmniMancer haiku.[11:55:55] <OmniMancer> ah k[12:03:42] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[12:13:14] * Anarchos compiled with wrong compiler...[12:25:51] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[12:34:11] *** orealis has quit IRC[12:37:40] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[12:37:45] *** jjido has joined #haiku[12:38:05] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[12:42:14] *** jjido has quit IRC[12:54:09] *** johnny_b has joined #haiku[12:59:54] *** diver has joined #haiku[13:02:45] *** DmitrySokolowsky has joined #haiku[13:02:54] <DmitrySokolowsky> hello![13:03:12] <DmitrySokolowsky> How to install codec for x264?[13:10:14] <DmitrySokolowsky> are there this codec for Haiku?[13:10:51] <luroh> DmitrySokolowsky: i don't think you can install a codec separately from MediaPlayer[13:11:09] <PulkoMandy> you can[13:11:16] <luroh> oh?[13:11:23] <PulkoMandy> they are in add-ons/media/ or so[13:11:42] <PulkoMandy> but, we only provide ffmpeg add on which does everything[13:11:54] <PulkoMandy> so you'd have to update this one rather than adding another[13:12:12] <PulkoMandy> and I'm not sure the media add on api is public yet[13:13:54] <DmitrySokolowsky> oh, thanks...[13:14:34] <DmitrySokolowsky> I use last night build Haiku, but there is now such codec[13:15:54] <DmitrySokolowsky> maybe i'll try to install ffmpeg[13:17:18] <PulkoMandy> well, you may try downloading VLC as well[13:17:50] <DmitrySokolowsky> i didn't know that it is ported[13:17:56] <DmitrySokolowsky> thanks :)[13:21:23] *** negusnyul has joined #haiku[13:23:11] *** jjido has joined #haiku[13:26:27] <karvjorm> I tried to port the dictd server for Haiku, but cannot compile it because of missing sqlite.[13:27:28] <karvjorm> There is sqlite port for Haiku, but I do not know how to insert it to Haiku source code tree.[13:38:01] *** DmitrySokolowsky has quit IRC[13:38:20] *** DmitrySokolowsky has joined #haiku[13:40:13] *** orealis has joined #haiku[13:40:42] *** Hubert_ has joined #haiku[13:42:41] *** Luko has joined #haiku[13:43:42] *** DmitrySokolowsky has quit IRC[13:44:43] *** yongcong has joined #haiku[13:49:04] <jjido> What are the features planned for R1/Alpha4?[13:49:33] <Luko> hi[13:50:10] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[13:50:11] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[13:53:16] *** jjido has quit IRC[13:55:16] *** DmitrySokolowsky has joined #haiku[14:05:40] *** Luko has quit IRC[14:09:12] *** yongcong has left #haiku[14:17:25] *** kcj has quit IRC[14:19:25] *** _0x0dev has joined #haiku[14:22:19] *** vezhlys_ is now known as vezhlys[14:23:10] *** jstressman has quit IRC[14:23:27] *** Cian2 is now known as Cian[14:23:42] <Cian> would there be problems trying to use the media kit from a pthread-ed application?[14:24:03] *** vezhlys has quit IRC[14:24:16] <Cian> even "new BSoundPlayer()" causes BBufferGroup errors[14:29:38] *** Hubert_ has quit IRC[14:40:50] *** XenoDuck has joined #haiku[14:46:14] *** dcase has quit IRC[14:49:24] <CIA-63> xyzzy-github.x86_64: xyzzy-github * e1be7d07d668af884caab7ff42e15cf95a609692 : Fixed a 64-bit calculation error. [4 commits][14:53:25] *** happy4crazy has joined #haiku[14:53:32] <DmitrySokolowsky> A/V sinchro does not work properly at some x264 files[14:54:19] <DmitrySokolowsky> the same files play good on Linux[14:55:04] <mmadia> Cian -- as you know, sending a mail to the haiku-3rdparty-dev list would be good. http://www.freelists.org/list/haiku-3rdparty-dev[14:55:35] <mmadia> DmitrySokolowsky -- can you check http://dev.haiku-os.org for an existing ticket and file one, if necessary?[14:57:26] <PulkoMandy> Cian: I think the problem is more likely that BSoundPlayer is quite broken[14:57:29] <PulkoMandy> pthreads or not[15:13:10] <Cian> PulkoMandy its what VLC always used and it worked properly in the old, BeOS threaded version[15:13:19] <Cian> what should be used instead?[15:15:15] *** duvjones has quit IRC[15:18:56] *** DmitrySokolowsky has left #haiku[15:22:16] <PulkoMandy> well, there are ways to make it work then[15:23:21] <PulkoMandy> mh... there's a bug in the Be Book about BSoundPlayer anyway[15:23:33] <PulkoMandy> the constructor args are the one from BTimeSource :)[15:24:22] <Cian> the "here be dragons" style warnings on BStreamingGameSound in the bebook are putting me off that anwyay[15:26:19] <PulkoMandy> well, that's quite outdated[15:26:49] <PulkoMandy> I find it strange to do new BSoundPlayer() without any args[15:27:09] <PulkoMandy> it's allowed, but I expect you need to set up some of the args anyway[15:27:14] *** HGN_ has joined #haiku[15:27:18] <Cian> PulkoMandy well, the same error occurs with apparently correct args[15:28:57] <Cian> BSoundPlayer(format struct, name, NULL, NULL, cookie) and BSoundPlayer(format struct, name, bufferproducer function, NULL, cookie)[15:29:10] <PulkoMandy> ?[15:30:03] <PulkoMandy> ok, that should work[15:32:43] *** _0x0dev has quit IRC[15:33:04] <PulkoMandy> http://pulkomandy.tk/projects/criticalmass/browser/critical%20mass/Sources/CMSound.cpp[15:33:07] <PulkoMandy> this is what I have[15:33:12] <PulkoMandy> and as far as I can tell, it works[15:36:07] <Cian> I ran through Debugger and my format struct seems right also... I'll take a look at that in a min[15:36:43] *** _0x0dev has joined #haiku[15:37:11] *** BitPuffin has joined #haiku[15:37:11] *** dcase has joined #haiku[15:49:06] <Cian> no matter what way the BSoundPlayer is constructed I get "BBufferGroup: error when adding buffer"[15:49:22] <CIA-63> mmadia-github.separate-build-environment: mmadia-github * b26d178f0952890f82e4e514063afbb03f32da80 : Omit the entire conditional definitions. [2 commits][15:49:23] <CIA-63> xyzzy-github.x86_64: xyzzy-github * cc30eec43d7b2a525040edc8d3879f21bb1c0c2d : System call restart support.[15:54:04] <Cian> was going to try and see if VLC 0.8 worked but I forgot I'm not on a hybrid...[15:55:37] *** HGN_ has quit IRC[15:55:41] <CIA-63> haiku.master: kallisti5 * hrev44471 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=f0e2995 :[15:55:41] <CIA-63> radeon_hd: Fix pre-emphasis shift[15:55:41] <CIA-63> * pre-emphasis shift was always for lane b[15:56:30] *** Postumus has quit IRC[15:57:24] *** Luko has joined #haiku[15:59:19] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[16:12:39] *** Luko has quit IRC[16:18:05] <CIA-63> HaikuPorts: cian * r1999 /haikuports/trunk/dev-libs/liboil/patches/ (. liboil-0.3.17.patch) http://ports.haiku-files.org/changeset/1999 : Fix liboil compiling.[16:25:04] *** _0x0dev has quit IRC[16:29:13] *** jstressman has joined #haiku[16:38:36] *** Cian2 has joined #haiku[16:39:47] *** Cian has quit IRC[16:40:56] *** Cian2 is now known as Cian[16:43:30] <arfonzo> ahoy all[16:44:34] *** Luko has joined #haiku[16:47:07] *** leavengood has joined #haiku[16:48:20] *** Cian2 has joined #haiku[16:49:16] *** JsobCloud has quit IRC[16:49:44] <CIA-63> mmadia-github.separate-build-environment: mmadia-github * b95dc538154d9abb4de3fca1365397e62a2d0628 : Whitespace cleanup. No functional change. [4 commits][16:50:54] *** MatthewH12 has joined #haiku[16:51:24] *** Cian has quit IRC[16:52:34] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[16:53:49] *** Malmis has quit IRC[16:54:10] *** Malmis has joined #haiku[16:54:15] *** JsobCloud has joined #haiku[16:55:15] *** Cian2 is now known as Cian[16:58:54] *** Malmis has quit IRC[16:59:29] *** Malmis has joined #haiku[17:02:00] *** qptain_Nemo has joined #haiku[17:06:05] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[17:06:50] *** duvjones has joined #haiku[17:13:29] *** HGN_ has joined #haiku[17:15:40] *** qptain_Nemo has quit IRC[17:20:16] *** backb0ne has quit IRC[17:21:15] *** backb0ne has joined #haiku[17:27:34] *** jstressman has quit IRC[17:29:24] *** qptain_Nemo has joined #haiku[17:30:28] *** jstressman has joined #haiku[17:36:11] *** Malmis_x has joined #haiku[17:36:16] *** Malmis has quit IRC[17:37:39] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[17:37:49] *** rdmr has quit IRC[17:39:07] *** Megaf has quit IRC[17:44:10] *** DrChaos has joined #haiku[17:44:12] <DrChaos> hello[17:44:19] <DrChaos> Haiku won't connect to my wireless network[17:44:56] <DrChaos> and the rtl8xx driver won't show my Ethernet card's MAC address[17:45:04] <DrChaos> it won't detect the ethernet[17:45:52] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[17:50:40] <DrChaos> the driver name is actually rtl81xx and it doesn't detect my ethernet card's MAC address nor cable[17:50:45] <DrChaos> please fix it guys[17:50:51] <DrChaos> or tell me how I can fix it[17:53:15] <mmadia> you can check the device id's through listdev[17:53:38] <DrChaos> ok[17:53:50] <DrChaos> if I do this, then how do I become a Haiku developer?[17:54:00] <DrChaos> it would be much easier if Linux had BeFS write support[17:54:12] <DrChaos> so I guess I'll have to develop inside Haiku[17:54:21] <DrChaos> I'll use a virtual machine to do this[17:54:30] <mmadia> you can build haiku from linux.[17:54:34] <mmadia> then use a vm to test.[17:55:27] <mmadia> http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/tree/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network rtl*/ and wlan/ are the respective directories.[17:57:22] <Luko> is any plan to port newest Open Sound driver to Haiku ?[17:57:46] <mmadia> rtl8139 and rtl81xx are the drivers included. it doesn't seem that rtl8169 is included yet.[17:58:13] <DrChaos> I have rtl8169[17:58:30] <DrChaos> can I make it a reality[17:58:32] <DrChaos> ?[17:59:44] <leavengood> it depends on how different that hardware is[18:00:09] <leavengood> I personally haven't written drivers, so I'm not sure how complicated it might be :)[18:00:49] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[18:00:57] <DrChaos> also, my iprowifi4965 driver detects my wireless card[18:00:59] <humdinger> How difficult can it be? I have a rtl8169. That's just "-1"... ;)[18:01:30] <DrChaos> 2 KERN: [net/iprowifi4965/0] [08:86:3b:9d:11:dc] assoc success at aid 4: long preamble, shor t slot time, QoS, HT40 (+AMPDU)[18:01:33] <DrChaos> 3 KERN: [net/iprowifi4965/0] ieee80211_new_state_locked: ASSOC -> RUN (nrunning 0 nscanning 0)[18:02:07] <DrChaos> I get this from the Haiku OS kernel, but it seems to disconnect[18:02:16] <DrChaos> let me reboot to Haiku and put it in DHCP mode[18:02:34] <DrChaos> It's a WPA2 access point[18:02:45] <DrChaos> anybody else have troubles connecting to wpa2 access point?[18:02:48] <PulkoMandy> DrChaos: is this alpha3 or a nightly build ?[18:03:34] <DrChaos> nightly build[18:03:53] <PulkoMandy> ok, so WPA should work - but it doesn't for me either...[18:04:10] <DrChaos> so err...wtf?[18:04:24] <DrChaos> can't I hand configure wpa_supplicant to do the auth?[18:06:15] *** Luko has quit IRC[18:06:19] <DrChaos> ok guys[18:06:21] <DrChaos> simpler question[18:07:12] *** qptain_Nemo has quit IRC[18:09:03] <PulkoMandy> DrChaos: if you go in the network preference panel and select your nettwork it should ask you the password, then connect[18:09:28] <DrChaos> I have this GPU, and the intel_extreme accelerant tries to probe it, but it doesn't find it:[18:09:35] <DrChaos> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)[18:09:57] <DrChaos> The intel_extreme accelerant should support this GPU with a minimum of work[18:10:08] <PulkoMandy> that looks too new for intel_extreme[18:10:23] <DrChaos> oh?[18:10:36] <DrChaos> isn't that intel i965?[18:10:57] *** xyzzy has quit IRC[18:11:34] <PulkoMandy> can you look at listpci output ?[18:11:51] <DrChaos> I get no network access under Haiku, so no[18:11:57] *** Cian has quit IRC[18:12:18] <DrChaos> I really need some programmer to collaborate with me on getting Haiku OS to work with rtl8169 ethernet[18:12:31] <PulkoMandy> you don't need network to run listpci :)[18:12:36] <DrChaos> oh[18:12:47] <DrChaos> so I just save file to / and reboot?[18:12:50] <mmadia> btw, it's simply "Haiku". 'Haiku OS' is an unfortunate side effect of not being able to own haiku.org[18:13:10] <PulkoMandy> DrChaos: yes, or write it to an usb stick or whatever[18:13:21] <DrChaos> brb[18:13:26] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[18:13:27] *** DrChaos has quit IRC[18:13:35] *** qptain_Nemo has joined #haiku[18:13:35] *** xyzzy has joined #haiku[18:13:51] <OmniMancer> I suggest checking if it works in freeBSD first though[18:14:20] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[18:20:50] *** rdmr has quit IRC[18:22:16] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[18:22:53] *** DrChaos has joined #haiku[18:22:54] *** HGN_ has quit IRC[18:22:57] <DrChaos> OK, here is the text[18:23:37] <DrChaos> http://vpaste.net/TJWFd[18:24:06] *** rdmr has quit IRC[18:24:42] <DrChaos> can somebody please help me get WiFi working?[18:24:45] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[18:28:26] <mmadia> fwiw, it is mentioned in the driver : http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/tree/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network/wlan/iprowifi4965/dev/iwn/if_iwn.c#n88[18:29:24] <humdinger> As is ethernet: http://haiku.it.su.se:8180/source/xref/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network/rtl81xx/dev/re/if_re.c#217[18:31:25] <DrChaos> ok[18:31:35] <DrChaos> my card must be an rtl8102E[18:32:31] <DrChaos> [ 4.087209] r8169 0000:05:00.0: eth0: RTL8105e at 0xffffc9000003e000, 24:b6:fd:1d:c7:f4, XID 00a00000 IRQ 47[18:32:41] <DrChaos> nope, Linux says it's an RTL8105e[18:32:53] * DrChaos wishes he knew computer science :([18:33:28] <humdinger> which should also work with that driver...[18:33:38] <humdinger> best file a ticket with your syslog.[18:33:38] <DrChaos> nope, it doesn't work[18:38:35] *** asiekierka has joined #haiku[18:38:46] <asiekierka> Hey[18:38:51] <asiekierka> So I just installed Haiku[18:38:58] <asiekierka> because I wanted to try it out[18:39:03] <asiekierka> And I'm in love with it about everything[18:39:11] <asiekierka> except the fact I can't set a proper resolution on my Radoen card[18:39:12] <asiekierka> Radeon*[18:39:51] <humdinger> kallisti5: We have an unsatisfied customer. :)[18:40:19] <humdinger> asiekierka: should your card be supported? Is is using VESA instead?[18:40:24] <asiekierka> No and yes[18:40:26] *** johnny_b has quit IRC[18:40:31] <asiekierka> I can force the resolution on Hackintosh only, that's from testing[18:41:40] <humdinger> kallisti5 is our Radeon dev. Maybe if you file a bug report with your info, he can asses if your model can be added.[18:41:55] <asiekierka> no, it's not even supported[18:42:03] <asiekierka> i only saw a commit to add it to Haiku's device list[18:42:06] <asiekierka> probably no official support tho[18:42:32] <humdinger> if it was committed to the master tree, it should hit the nightly images soon.[18:42:57] <asiekierka> Well I installed Alpha 3[18:43:01] <asiekierka> Where do I get the nightlies?[18:43:06] <asiekierka> ((sorry for being a complete noob, but I am a newbie))[18:43:22] <DrChaos> how do I create a new ticket?[18:43:42] <jessicah> dev.haiku-os.org[18:43:52] <humdinger> http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/ReportingBugs[18:44:17] <jessicah> that's a better link :)[18:44:22] <humdinger> also http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki[18:44:30] <humdinger> to explain how to create an account etc.[18:44:55] <jessicah> one of my cats has decided to sleep on my left arm... can't type as fast as humdinger :p[18:45:28] <humdinger> nice cat. Mine would sooner scratch me bloody...[18:45:32] <asiekierka> so, should I stay with Alpha 3, if not, what should I get?[18:45:45] <jessicah> just latest nightly[18:45:49] <humdinger> asiekierka: Trying out the nightly would be best.[18:45:53] <jessicah> gcc2hybid usually[18:45:53] <PulkoMandy> asiekierka: get the latest gcc2hybrid nightly[18:45:56] *** HGN_ has joined #haiku[18:45:57] <asiekierka> okay[18:46:10] <asiekierka> sadly, i don't have another CD disk >_>[18:46:13] <humdinger> There'll soon be an Alpha4, but if you find something amiss, it might be fixed till then.[18:46:15] *** Postumus has joined #haiku[18:46:21] <asiekierka> and my computer doesn't like booting from the way my USB does[18:46:23] <PulkoMandy> asiekierka: you can put it on an usb stick as well[18:46:40] <PulkoMandy> you can boot from the CD and use the bootloader to load the usb install[18:46:41] <humdinger> invest in a CD-RW[18:46:52] <DrChaos> I read that guide but it doesn't tell me how to create a ticket[18:47:07] <PulkoMandy> (press shift or space to get to the boot menu, then there is a "select boot partition" somewhere IIRC)[18:47:26] <jessicah> first option :)[18:47:30] <HGN_> asiekierka :)[18:47:31] <asiekierka> heh, all shops closed on Sunday[18:48:21] <asiekierka> checked[18:48:28] <asiekierka> Mode Switching works since like early 2012[18:48:30] <asiekierka> for my card[18:48:37] <humdinger> DrChaos: Once you've logged into http://dev.haiku-os.org/ click "New ticket"...[18:48:46] *** paul0 has joined #haiku[18:49:20] <CIA-63> mmadia-github.separate-build-environment: mmadia-github * b5ba2b149da91e4241c5f9a8d5e7f6d33f844dbd : Whitespace cleanup. No functional change. [3 commits][18:49:21] <asiekierka> so. i get the anyboot and just put the files on the pendrive?[18:49:45] <PulkoMandy> dd if=image.anyboot of=/dev/disks/usb/...[18:49:49] <asiekierka> okay, thanks[18:49:53] <PulkoMandy> (replace ... with the disk id)[18:49:53] <asiekierka> sorry for asking such stupid questions[18:50:00] <humdinger> asiekierka: yes. make sure to dd it to the whole drive, not a partition.[18:50:01] <PulkoMandy> well, we all started there :)[18:50:04] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[18:50:23] <jessicah> and use a large blocksize[18:50:30] <humdinger> e.g. of=/dev/disks/usb/0/0/raw[18:50:39] <humdinger> yep. bs=1M works[18:51:26] <jessicah> does haiku do same thing as beos of skipping block cache when large blocksize used?[18:52:35] <humdinger> no idea. but missing the bs parameter will slow things down tremendously.[18:52:35] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[18:52:46] *** RQ has joined #haiku[18:53:01] <humdinger> So... dinner. Now![18:53:07] *** humdinger is now known as humdinner[18:53:30] <DrChaos> I can't login :([18:56:06] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[18:56:11] <PulkoMandy> DrChaos: there is a validation mail[18:57:39] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[19:00:04] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[19:03:56] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[19:04:04] *** asiekierka has quit IRC[19:05:48] *** HGN_ has quit IRC[19:07:38] *** paul0 has quit IRC[19:09:36] *** asiekierka has joined #haiku[19:09:46] <asiekierka> Installing the nightly was fun![19:09:50] <asiekierka> First, I tried to boot it from USB[19:09:54] <asiekierka> After "Loading system" I got a reboot[19:09:58] <asiekierka> Then I tried to use the CD and Shift+Space[19:10:04] <asiekierka> Before it got to any kind of prompt or menu, a reboot[19:10:44] <asiekierka> hrev44469-x86gcc2hybrid[19:13:11] <luroh> sounds like it possibly tried to boot off the usb stick in both cases, and failing[19:13:18] <asiekierka> Yeah.[19:13:23] <asiekierka> So that means I should wait for a CD?[19:13:43] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[19:13:51] <luroh> checked for any useful BIOS settings?[19:14:45] <asiekierka> Probably none[19:15:28] <luroh> well, i think "Loading system" is not something that the Haiku bootloader outputs[19:15:41] <luroh> it's coming from your BIOS[19:16:29] <asiekierka> Actually, no[19:16:33] <asiekierka> I know very well what my BIOS outputs[19:17:02] <asiekierka> I am going to look for a disk of some kind now[19:17:03] <asiekierka> Brb[19:17:46] <PulkoMandy> can you disable usb boot in the bios ?[19:18:09] <asiekierka> Nope.[19:18:13] <asiekierka> It's detected as an USB-HDD[19:18:47] <PulkoMandy> ok, so you'll need to plug the usb stick after it has booted from CD, but before entering the boot menu... that may get a bit tricky to do :)[19:18:51] <CIA-63> haiku.master: kallisti5 * hrev44472 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=4e7e3e3 :[19:18:51] <CIA-63> radeon_hd: display port improvements[19:18:51] <CIA-63> * Remove non-generic radeon dp_get_lane_count[19:18:51] <CIA-63> * Set lane count and link rate at set_display_mode[19:18:51] <CIA-63> * Pass entire mode to pll_set vs only pixel clock for DP code[19:18:52] <CIA-63> * Add helpers for DP config data to common code[19:18:52] <CIA-63> * Obtain more correct link rate[19:18:55] <PulkoMandy> mh...[19:18:57] <asiekierka> Or just find a disc[19:19:05] <asiekierka> Oh hey, display port improvements[19:19:09] <PulkoMandy> mh[19:19:17] <PulkoMandy> there's another way[19:19:25] <PulkoMandy> boot from the cd and select 'run to desktop'[19:19:30] <PulkoMandy> then insert the usb stick[19:19:33] <PulkoMandy> and run installer[19:19:41] <asiekierka> I gave the CD to my friend so that's a no-go... I should try burning a disc on Haiku[19:19:41] <asiekierka> But[19:19:44] <PulkoMandy> it should allow you to install from usb stick to your hard drive this way[19:19:45] <asiekierka> How do I burn ISOs on Haiku?[19:19:57] <PulkoMandy> installoptionalpackage cdrecord[19:20:07] <kallisti5> asiekierka: trying to eek out basic DP support before the next alpha[19:20:13] <asiekierka> that would be neat[19:20:20] <PulkoMandy> (you could install from your running partition to another one as well, if you have space for another partition)[19:20:30] <asiekierka> (nah, let's see if this disc is OK)[19:20:31] <PulkoMandy> that's the easiest way to upgrade actually[19:20:31] <mmadia> cdrecord should be part of the nightly images, PulkoMandy.[19:20:41] <PulkoMandy> nice. :)[19:20:47] <asiekierka> Generating a list of Package Names ...[19:20:50] <asiekierka> ... no packages need to be installed.[19:20:54] <PulkoMandy> so just cdrecord yourimage.anyboot (or iso)[19:21:14] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[19:22:46] <asiekierka> So installoptionalpackage seems to do nothing[19:23:15] <asiekierka> and i guess that's because i already have cdrecord.[19:23:16] <asiekierka> Nifty[19:23:17] <asiekierka> ls[19:23:22] <asiekierka> whoops, wrong window. I do that a lot[19:23:34] *** DrChaos has quit IRC[19:23:38] <asiekierka> so i can just burn an anyboot?[19:23:49] <asiekierka> OR should I get the ISO[19:26:04] *** HGN_ has joined #haiku[19:26:16] <mmadia> anyboot.[19:26:22] *** jjido has joined #haiku[19:27:54] *** jjido has quit IRC[19:28:07] *** jjido has joined #haiku[19:28:49] <asiekierka> Afk, installing nightly[19:28:56] *** asiekierka has quit IRC[19:31:18] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[19:31:26] *** Luko has joined #haiku[19:32:12] *** Megaf has quit IRC[19:32:21] <CIA-63> haiku.master: humdinger * hrev44473 http://cgit.haiku-os.org/haiku/commit/?id=aed3510 :[19:32:21] <CIA-63> Close alerts with ESCAPE key.[19:32:21] <CIA-63> Added SetFlags(B_CLOSE_ON_ESCAPE) or SetShortcut(index, B_ESCAPE) to BAlerts[19:32:22] <CIA-63> depending if the result gets used later in the code, or if it's a one-button[19:32:22] <CIA-63> BAlert.[19:32:38] *** asiekierka has joined #haiku[19:32:51] <asiekierka> Verified. Booting Haiku nightly seems to be hit and miss[19:33:02] <asiekierka> Rebooted on first and second try from CD[19:33:11] <asiekierka> Worked when i made CDROM first to boot and didnt use boot menu[19:33:17] <Luko> hi.[19:33:33] <asiekierka> Hey[19:33:41] <Luko> i have installed GCC4hybrid nightly build, and haiku dont find NTFS partitions[19:33:45] <asiekierka> Now it seems to be taking a while to detect drives[19:36:09] *** humdinner has quit IRC[19:36:09] *** Luko has quit IRC[19:36:56] *** jayrulez has quit IRC[19:37:34] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[19:39:34] <asiekierka> Is it just me or is haiku taking an insanely long time on the fourth loading icon[19:39:36] <asiekierka> In the nightly[19:39:44] <PulkoMandy> it shouldn't[19:40:02] <augiedoggie> mine takes over a minute if I have my sata disks in ahci mode[19:40:10] *** _0x0dev has joined #haiku[19:41:12] *** Megaf has quit IRC[19:42:48] <asiekierka> Im not in AHCI[19:42:57] <asiekierka> The Alpha 3 took a few seconds[19:43:07] <asiekierka> This is a few minutes and the HDD light is still on[19:43:09] <asiekierka> Im scared[19:43:41] *** ksx4system_ has joined #haiku[19:43:47] <PulkoMandy> well, likely it freezed waiting for a disk interrupt[19:44:13] <asiekierka> Huh.[19:44:18] <asiekierka> Should I try with AHCI.[19:44:21] <asiekierka> ?[19:44:24] <PulkoMandy> you may try booting with on-screen debug and see what it says[19:44:31] <asiekierka> How do I do that?[19:44:42] <PulkoMandy> (same as before, get to the boot menu by pressing space and select the "enable on screen debug" option)[19:46:36] *** ksx4system has quit IRC[19:46:37] *** _marc` has quit IRC[19:48:12] *** DHowett has quit IRC[19:49:24] <CIA-63> mmadia-github.separate-build-environment: mmadia-github * e709ec649f015089032c298004410c829e434019 :[19:49:24] <CIA-63> Fixed the struct imaxdiv_t and related functions. [5 commits][19:49:24] <CIA-63> Review appreciated.[19:49:29] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[19:49:30] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[19:50:03] <asiekierka> Device indicates transfer error after dma[19:50:10] <asiekierka> Broken disk, no?[19:50:13] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[19:50:23] <asiekierka> Failed to read into cache now...[19:50:28] <asiekierka> Medium error.[19:50:54] <asiekierka> PulkoMandy: May it be a scratched DVD disk?[19:51:37] <PulkoMandy> could be[19:51:47] <asiekierka> Lemme try combining the DVD and USB...[19:52:06] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[19:52:44] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[19:53:05] <asiekierka> Nope[19:53:14] <asiekierka> Any and all USB pendrives plugged in during boot cause a reboot[19:53:26] <PulkoMandy> interesting bug[19:53:29] <asiekierka> Yeah[19:53:35] <asiekierka> I would see if it appears in Alpha 3[19:53:39] <asiekierka> But i cannot now[19:53:41] <asiekierka> So I will tomorrow[19:53:47] <asiekierka> Testing for reproducability now[19:53:55] <asiekierka> Yep, 4 times already[20:00:35] *** paul0 has joined #haiku[20:00:35] *** brobosti1on has joined #haiku[20:02:20] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[20:02:27] *** brobosti1on is now known as brobostigon[20:02:54] *** RQ has quit IRC[20:03:43] *** wbsd has joined #haiku[20:04:17] *** xyzzy has quit IRC[20:04:19] *** FrStm has quit IRC[20:04:22] *** janus has quit IRC[20:07:38] *** LjL has quit IRC[20:09:43] *** Luko has joined #haiku[20:10:30] *** FrStm has joined #haiku[20:10:30] *** xyzzy has joined #haiku[20:10:31] *** janus has joined #haiku[20:10:47] *** LjL has joined #haiku[20:11:16] *** xyzzy is now known as Guest59359[20:13:21] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[20:15:42] *** Guest59359 is now known as xyzzy[20:15:47] *** xyzzy has quit IRC[20:15:47] *** xyzzy has joined #haiku[20:17:17] *** RQ has joined #haiku[20:18:59] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[20:19:13] *** adamk has joined #haiku[20:20:17] *** LjL has joined #haiku[20:21:05] *** _0x0dev has quit IRC[20:23:44] *** vezhlys has joined #haiku[20:28:41] *** leavengood has quit IRC[20:28:53] <Lelldorin1> hello all[20:30:48] *** leavengood has joined #haiku[20:31:06] *** karvjorm has quit IRC[20:36:29] *** DmitrySokolowsky has joined #haiku[20:37:50] <DmitrySokolowsky> my printer Deskjet 2050 is not supported?[20:38:32] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[20:42:11] <diver> DmitrySokolowsky: tried gutenprint?[20:43:13] <DmitrySokolowsky> yes, of course[20:43:38] <DmitrySokolowsky> there are 2000, 2500, but no 2050[20:44:54] <jjido> DmitrySokolowsky: does 2000 work?[20:45:16] <HGN_> try use 2000 or 2500[20:45:39] <HGN_> maybe work[20:46:28] <DmitrySokolowsky> jjido: no, the printer doesn't print test page[20:46:35] <DmitrySokolowsky> 2500 too[20:46:54] <DmitrySokolowsky> maybe, 2050 and 1500 is not the same :)[20:46:58] <diver> DmitrySokolowsky: perhaps newer version of gutenprint support it?[20:47:00] <DmitrySokolowsky> *2500[20:48:12] <DmitrySokolowsky> diver, ok, i'll try it, but i use the buil of Haiku from the day before yesterday,,,[20:49:13] <jjido> the printer is too new[20:49:13] <CIA-63> mmadia-github.separate-build-environment: mmadia-github * c417bf4bab3a66861dce3674552d915031ce651c : Fixed the usage of _HAIKU_BUILD_DECLARE_FUNCTION. [2 commits][20:50:40] <DmitrySokolowsky> hope, it will be supported in near future[20:52:38] <jjido> which Deskjet models does it offer?[20:56:42] <DmitrySokolowsky> 2500 is also very new, but it is supported...[20:58:03] *** hdanak has joined #haiku[20:58:04] <jjido> yeah, according to this table 1050 or 3050 should work: http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=nas1ba0863cfa6463903862569c10078c903[20:58:50] <jjido> others too[21:01:22] *** johnny_b has joined #haiku[21:05:18] *** asiekierka has quit IRC[21:05:54] *** Luko has quit IRC[21:08:44] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[21:11:24] <DmitrySokolowsky> the printer wakes up, but does't print[21:14:28] *** Luko has joined #haiku[21:17:45] *** asiekierka has joined #haiku[21:21:03] <dreamed> morning[21:22:07] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[21:25:40] *** _0x0dev has joined #haiku[21:32:02] *** DmitrySokolowsky has quit IRC[21:37:05] *** petterhj has quit IRC[21:48:10] *** duvjones has quit IRC[21:49:17] <CIA-63> mmadia-github.separate-build-environment: mmadia-github * 8ae39d402e149014b65a45856c82561e881140cb :[21:49:17] <CIA-63> Retrieve ULLONG_MAX from HaikuHostBuildConfig.h[21:49:17] <CIA-63> Thanks for the heads up, Ingo![21:51:16] *** juaa_ has quit IRC[21:53:01] *** jua_ has joined #haiku[21:54:43] *** hdanak has quit IRC[21:56:20] *** rdmr has quit IRC[21:57:24] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[21:58:11] *** xyzzy has quit IRC[21:58:16] *** xyzzy has joined #haiku[22:04:47] <CIA-63> HaikuPorts: augiedoggie * r2000 /haikuports/trunk/dev-util/astyle/astyle-r361.bep http://ports.haiku-files.org/changeset/2000 : Update astyle svn build to r361[22:11:37] <leavengood> hmmm, augiedoggie could astyle be used to format code to close to the Haiku style?[22:11:49] <augiedoggie> it can get close[22:11:56] <leavengood> OK[22:12:06] <augiedoggie> I have some rule files for it but they need to be tweaked[22:12:45] <leavengood> I'd like to update some old BeOS apps like ClipUp but first fixing up the code style would be nice, and using a tool for most of the drudgery would be ideal[22:13:43] <augiedoggie> I have a script that I use in conjunction with astyle because the Haiku style switches a bit depending on whether it's source or header[22:14:08] <augiedoggie> so it basically has to do 2 passes on source[22:15:33] *** asiekierka has quit IRC[22:16:19] *** HGN_ has quit IRC[22:17:12] *** Beretta021 has quit IRC[22:17:32] *** nsuperbus has quit IRC[22:19:32] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[22:24:52] *** HGN_ has joined #haiku[22:26:23] *** jayrulez has joined #haiku[22:27:10] <leavengood> augiedoggie: OK[22:27:26] <leavengood> could you post that somewhere or email it to me?[22:27:35] *** RQ has quit IRC[22:28:03] <augiedoggie> sure[22:28:46] <leavengood> thanks[22:29:39] <Luko> does haiku support USB sound card ??? like this ? http://www.bazos.sk/img/1/388/17224388.jpg[22:31:16] <augiedoggie> leavengood: astyle prebuilt package was uploaded if you want it http://ports-space.haiku-files.org//dev-util/astyle-r361-x86-gcc4-2012-08-05.zip[22:31:36] <augiedoggie> leavengood: and the haiku rules/scripts are http://cpr.kicks-ass.org/astyle_haiku.zip[22:32:21] <augiedoggie> I haven't worked on them in a while, I believe astyle added some options which would be useful for Haiku formatting[22:32:32] <leavengood> OK[22:32:36] <leavengood> I'll take a look[22:32:45] <leavengood> maybe this can be improved and packaged up[22:33:08] <leavengood> even if not perfect if it gets code mostly there it helps[22:34:22] <leavengood> Luko: I believe there is some USB sound support, I'm not sure how extensive though[22:34:31] <leavengood> that looks like a neat little device though[22:35:26] <Luko> leavengood, the price is very low, from secondhand 5eur[22:35:46] <leavengood> yeah, it is $2.75 on Amazon[22:35:50] <leavengood> http://www.amazon.com/HDE-Channel-External-Sound-Adapter/dp/B0027EMHM6[22:35:53] <Luko> i think i must try becouse i have Intel HDA and using haiku witthout sound is bored[22:36:04] *** asiekierka has joined #haiku[22:36:19] <leavengood> bad reviews though ;)[22:36:33] <leavengood> but for the price it might be worth trying[22:36:48] <Luko> i have studied alektrotechnics for me is no problem download from internet schema and make my sound card by me[22:37:12] <Luko> there are morechips with minimal to do[22:37:41] <Luko> this usb cards are plug in playand work in win 98too[22:37:47] <Luko> i try buy one and test[22:38:35] <leavengood> OK[22:39:48] *** Luko has quit IRC[22:39:56] <leavengood> I'm not sure if you can get this device easily where you live, but it has better reviews and is not too much more[22:39:59] <leavengood> http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS[22:41:54] <jjido> I used http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Stereo-Adapter-Converter-ICUSBAUDIO/dp/B000NPKGGK/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1344199289&sr=1-2&keywords=startech+audio+usb[22:46:10] <jessicah> morning[22:46:26] * dreamed waves[22:46:40] <jessicah> meow meow :)[22:47:49] <dreamed> heh[22:48:01] <dreamed> speaking of, a friend of mine pencilled a portrait of my cat for me! so cool[22:48:04] <dreamed> need to hang it[22:49:14] <CIA-63> mmadia-github.separate-build-environment: mmadia-github * ae1d7d1579b2a5f8235889a5e76b9e106f275df7 : Removed completed TODO. No functional changes. [4 commits][22:49:32] <CIA-63> HaikuPorts: augiedoggie * r2001 /haikuports/trunk/app-misc/colordiff/ (4 files in 2 dirs) http://ports.haiku-files.org/changeset/2001 : Add colordiff-1.0.10 bep and patch[22:49:55] <jessicah> neat :)[22:50:03] <jessicah> i need to take my kitten to vet again[22:50:11] <jessicah> his walking hasn't improved at all[22:50:23] <jessicah> so gonna see if they can do an x-ray and see what's up with his leg[22:50:59] <dreamed> oh dear[22:51:11] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[22:53:42] <asiekierka> Not sure whether to use gcc2h or gcc4h[22:54:10] *** jjido has quit IRC[22:57:16] *** fhein has quit IRC[22:58:31] <mmadia> gcc2h is how Haiku is released as.[22:58:44] <leavengood> just use gcc2h, for now it is the best if you want to run any older programs yet you still have gcc4 support[22:58:51] <mmadia> it has support for running and compiling both gcc2 *and* gcc4 binaries.[23:00:09] <leavengood> for example if you ran gcc4h and tried to run a screensaver from Haikuware or whereever, it would not work, since it is an add-on, and GCC4 apps can't load GCC2 add-ons (and vice versa)[23:06:55] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:12:17] <asiekierka> On the other hand[23:12:30] <asiekierka> My friend recommends gcc4h for me as it will help porting and coding new stuff[23:13:28] <leavengood> you can still do GCC4 stuff on a gcc2h[23:13:42] <HGN_> ehe[23:14:01] <leavengood> setgcc x86 gcc4[23:14:21] <augiedoggie> you can omit the x86 part[23:14:29] <HGN_> Gallium etc is the best example[23:14:39] <HGN_> and many apps on haikuware[23:14:49] <leavengood> but you can do whatever works for you, just know the drawbacks[23:15:22] <HGN_> working bad or not work on gcc2h[23:15:46] *** dcase has quit IRC[23:15:49] <HGN_> problems with media_server gcc2 etc[23:15:51] <leavengood> well that is because Haikuware has a lot of junk made my people who don't know what they are doing[23:16:13] <HGN_> no sound, crashs etc[23:16:32] <HGN_> aha[23:16:37] <leavengood> and it works better under gcc4?[23:16:44] <HGN_> yep[23:16:51] <leavengood> That is stuff we should fix then, please log bugs[23:17:13] <leavengood> Yes gcc2 is old and it kind of sucks, but we are committed to supporting it for R1, so people need to accept that.[23:17:18] <augiedoggie> a lot of it is bad porting jobs[23:17:26] <HGN_> primarily working[23:17:27] <leavengood> Of course[23:18:07] <HGN_> we no need accept that[23:18:22] <HGN_> and no must[23:18:57] <hamishm> fwiw I've had no problems porting openjdk (a GCC4 app) on gcc2h[23:19:21] <HGN_> and super ;)[23:19:32] <leavengood> That's because you are a competent developer[23:20:02] <asiekierka> So, im not sure by now[23:20:10] <asiekierka> 2h or 4h?[23:20:18] <HGN_> hamishm: and now you will porting Gallium for gcc2h[23:20:21] <HGN_> ?[23:20:53] <HGN_> ehh[23:21:16] <HGN_> for 5 beos apps we have gcc2[23:21:17] <HGN_> lol[23:21:25] <HGN_> ok, for 8[23:21:44] <HGN_> no comment[23:21:46] <HGN_> bbl[23:22:06] <leavengood> Hehehe, a lot of us would not argue with that, but that is what we decided to do for R1 and I doubt it will change.[23:22:10] <hamishm> well gallium's a different issue because it's not just a userspace app[23:22:41] *** MatthewH12` has joined #haiku[23:23:07] *** MatthewH12 has quit IRC[23:23:50] <leavengood> If someone gets Gallium working great on a GCC4 or GCC4h Haiku then maybe we can rethink things before R1, if Gallium can add real value[23:24:25] <leavengood> But even if we have Gallium it is a lot more work to get a 3D rendered and composited app_server working[23:24:57] <jessicah> do we need a 3D rendered and composited app_server?[23:25:14] <jessicah> haiku's desktop is already very fast to me[23:25:27] <augiedoggie> compositing does provide some nice things[23:26:02] <jessicah> such as?[23:26:18] <augiedoggie> true transparency[23:26:29] <leavengood> it can provide some niceties like window shadow, live previews, nicer animations, transparency[23:28:38] <jessicah> will gallium magically make all current 3D hardware work?[23:28:50] <leavengood> doubtful ;)[23:29:45] <jessicah> and do we really need to follow the animated desktop trend? :|[23:30:36] <augiedoggie> I don't think Haiku would ever default to something overly flashy or animation heavy[23:31:13] <jessicah> i'd rather see 3D left to the games[23:31:29] <jessicah> and get Steam working on haiku :p[23:31:39] *** MatthewH12 has joined #haiku[23:32:01] *** MatthewH12` has quit IRC[23:34:06] *** asiekierka has quit IRC[23:35:08] <HGN_> Gallium 3D = hardware 3D = composited app_server = real transprency etc.[23:35:28] <augiedoggie> gallium is not required for compositing[23:35:34] <HGN_> and yes, some of us need that[23:35:43] *** MatthewH12` has joined #haiku[23:36:07] <HGN_> but for fast hardware compositing yes[23:37:11] *** kcj has joined #haiku[23:37:51] <HGN_> old one core CPU calculates transparency in deskbar widget, ha ha, no joke[23:38:21] *** MatthewH12 has quit IRC[23:38:49] <HGN_> maybe, two/three/quad core speed cpu yes, buy only for deskbar[23:38:55] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[23:41:35] <HGN_> We shut up in a cage and tells us what we do not need[23:42:05] <HGN_> just to maintain the myth of legitimacy gcc2[23:42:37] *** Ingenu has left #haiku[23:42:44] <HGN_> sorry, not buying it[23:43:26] <HGN_> bbl[23:43:36] *** _0x0dev has quit IRC[23:46:01] *** Negr0_VoP2P has joined #haiku[23:47:01] *** rdmr has quit IRC[23:47:41] *** MatthewH12 has joined #haiku[23:48:54] *** MatthewH12` has quit IRC[23:49:13] <CIA-63> mmadia-github.separate-build-environment: mmadia-github * a03867b78464c44a2ee305d33184af351c83a761 :[23:49:13] <CIA-63> Add sys/target_types.h[23:49:13] <CIA-63> Review appreciated.[23:49:30] *** HGN_ has quit IRC[23:55:36] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[23:55:48] *** HaikuUser is now known as unheeding|haiku[23:55:57] <unheeding|haiku> hello everybody![23:58:37] *** stargater has joined #haiku[23:58:40] <stargater> hi[23:58:46] <stargater> kallisti5: around[23:58:48] <jessicah> hihi[23:58:56] <stargater> jessicah: hi[23:59:19] <stargater> jessicah: have you a blog or webpage?