August 29, 2011 
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August 29, 2011 [00:03:09] *** [r4] has quit IRC[00:06:52] *** PasNox has quit IRC[00:09:55] *** negusnyul has quit IRC[00:14:01] *** dreamed has joined #haiku[00:14:53] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[00:22:45] *** paul0 has quit IRC[00:26:29] *** stef has quit IRC[00:28:10] *** stef has joined #haiku[00:44:30] *** ddavid123 has joined #haiku[00:45:07] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:45:59] *** Macintech has joined #haiku[00:46:11] *** Cian has quit IRC[00:47:12] <ddavid123> Hello everyone.[00:48:54] *** MasterStarman has quit IRC[00:48:54] *** Macintech is now known as MasterStarman[00:59:10] *** ddavid123 has quit IRC[01:17:59] *** kingxerxes_ has joined #haiku[01:18:24] *** Xeon4D has joined #haiku[01:18:32] <Xeon4D> good evening 'all[01:20:23] <helf2> hey Xeon4D[01:20:35] <Xeon4D> hiya helf![01:20:48] *** kingxerxes has quit IRC[01:20:49] <helf2> how ya been?[01:21:20] <Xeon4D> good and you? :D[01:21:34] <helf2> decent[01:21:40] <helf2> bought a new car :D[01:23:17] <geist> sweet[01:23:23] <geist> hope its awesome[01:23:25] <Disreali> "new" new, or new to you?[01:23:28] <helf2> heh[01:23:29] <helf2> new to me[01:24:20] <helf2> 1984 turbo diesel jetta. low mileage and what not. been putting it through its paces lately. took it on a road trip today. got 40mpg driving at 75+ with the ac runnign full blast and 3 adults. not bad for an old diesel[01:24:44] <Disreali> nice[01:25:23] <helf2> my best strictly in town is 38mpg. best highway so far was 46[01:26:05] <geist> not too bad[01:26:12] <geist> oh hey, i fixed the bebox from yesterday[01:26:21] <helf2> oh cool. just a bad drive?[01:26:22] <geist> turns out the root scsi drive had some serious problems[01:26:29] <helf2> cool[01:26:37] <helf2> easy fix then :D[01:26:42] <geist> i pulled it out to archive it and the linux box was having a lot of sector issues[01:26:49] <geist> so i dug up another disk and put r5 on it[01:26:52] <geist> it's quite a bit quicker[01:26:58] <helf2> heh[01:27:10] <helf2> id imagine a 133 is mostly usable compared to the 66[01:27:36] <geist> also turns out the 133 is a 603e[01:27:52] <geist> the increased cache probably makes up for the extra mhz without a bump of anything else[01:29:14] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[01:31:02] <helf2> geist, are you goingto use the beboxes for anything? or is it just for play?[01:32:35] *** Pinaraf has quit IRC[01:34:05] <Xeon4D> I'd so like to get my hands on one :/[01:35:55] *** oco2 has quit IRC[01:36:10] *** Masq666 has joined #haiku[01:40:19] *** dak has quit IRC[01:45:17] *** Hasham has joined #haiku[01:46:45] <Hasham> hi...what iso image i should download[01:47:28] *** dflemstr has quit IRC[01:48:38] <luroh> Hasham: if you have a usb stick, put the anyboot on it[01:49:30] <luroh> if you're hell-bent on getting an iso, grab the r1a3 one[01:49:32] <Hasham> how do ido that , any specific app for windows or linux[01:50:02] <luroh> if you have linux handy, you can just dd the anyboot image to the stick[01:50:31] <HeTo> you can burn the anyboot image on a cd as well[01:50:55] <HeTo> the R1A3 one, anyway, the nightly ones don't fit anymore I think[01:51:59] <Hasham> HeTo, i think i should burn image to CD[01:52:35] <HeTo> or wait, I think the nightly ones fit on a cd as well, but if you built an alpha-profile image from a recent revision of the tree yourself, that wouldn't fit on a cd[01:53:59] <Hasham> whats the difference between two[01:59:54] *** Rodjer has joined #haiku[02:00:16] *** Rodjer has left #haiku[02:00:57] *** luroh has quit IRC[02:08:28] *** Nozy has quit IRC[02:11:20] <Disreali> the Alpha3 release has much more software.[02:12:07] <Disreali> the nightly image is meant for testing purposes, not end-user uses[02:20:48] *** Xeon4D has quit IRC[02:23:00] *** VNA9216__ has quit IRC[02:24:05] *** freakazoid0223 has joined #haiku[02:30:54] *** VNA9216_ has quit IRC[02:36:42] *** Hasham has quit IRC[02:40:39] *** Xeon4D has joined #haiku[02:41:37] *** Hasham has joined #haiku[02:42:13] <Hasham> i am downloading alpha3 , how improved it is from alpha 2[02:44:57] *** ablyss has joined #haiku[02:50:06] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[02:56:27] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[02:57:10] *** Hasham has quit IRC[03:02:17] *** adamk_ has left #haiku[03:12:59] *** kernel_joe has joined #haiku[03:13:33] <kernel_joe> hello I have a question about BeOS compatibilty[03:14:03] <kernel_joe> I've tried 3dmix from 5.1 and this app doesn't work in Haiku[03:14:35] <kernel_joe> what version should I try ?[03:14:44] <kernel_joe> if this is supported[03:30:12] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[03:31:06] <Disreali> I thought that 3dmix from r5 worked, not sure about the one from dano[03:31:21] <Disreali> let me find my r5 cd[03:37:31] <kernel_joe> anyone know hot to boot Dan0 in QEMU from windows ?[03:37:32] <kernel_joe> how to[03:38:16] <kernel_joe> it falls into KDL with unable to mount "... bfs on /boot"[03:38:19] <Disreali> kernel_joe: no idea. Dan0 was not very stable even when it was new[03:39:29] <Disreali> btw, the 3dmix included on the R5 cd works fine in Haiku Alpha3[03:39:47] <kernel_joe> great ! thanks[03:43:28] *** kingxerxes_ has quit IRC[03:47:43] <kernel_joe> has anyone boot floppy for R5 (with R5 boot screen)[03:47:43] <kernel_joe> ?[03:51:15] <geist> i have a few, you need a disk image?[03:57:11] *** Disreali has quit IRC[03:57:14] *** Disreali_ has joined #haiku[04:00:19] *** Disreali_ has quit IRC[04:00:48] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[04:02:43] *** Disreali_ has joined #haiku[04:02:53] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[04:05:15] *** Disreali has quit IRC[04:05:28] *** Disreali_ is now known as Disreali[04:13:28] *** diver_ has joined #haiku[04:15:32] *** Xeon4D has quit IRC[04:17:04] *** Xeon4D has joined #haiku[04:25:25] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[04:25:28] *** kernel_joe has quit IRC[04:25:52] *** HaikuUser is now known as kernel_joe[04:29:14] *** Disreali has quit IRC[04:38:17] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[04:38:50] *** Disreali has quit IRC[04:39:54] *** xplt has quit IRC[04:48:37] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[04:49:42] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[04:50:34] *** cprodescu has quit IRC[04:52:11] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[04:52:43] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[04:53:36] <Disreali> hey OmniMancer[04:54:49] <OmniMancer> hi[05:00:14] <Disreali> neat! I wonder if that thing could run Haiku http://www.osnews.com/story/25108/Raspberry_Pi_ARM_Board_Demonstrated_Running_Quake_III[05:05:41] <geist> it'd suck. it's an arm11[05:05:51] <geist> not very good at running general purpose oses[05:06:01] <geist> or more to the point, something like a pandaboard would be a few times faster[05:06:14] *** kernel_joe has quit IRC[05:09:04] <Disreali> did not realize that. thanks for the info[05:20:25] *** judgen has joined #haiku[05:22:05] <Disreali> looks like the panda board would be a better target for haiku[05:24:37] <helf2> but geist! its an arm chip so it must be epic !111[05:25:03] <jrabbit> they're all close enough[05:25:40] <Disreali> anyone remember who was working on the arm port?[05:26:01] *** judgen has quit IRC[05:26:01] <helf2> arm just seems horribly overhyped right now.[05:31:56] <geist> in general the performance of most arm implementations is completely overstated[05:32:15] <geist> though the very high end ones (cortex-a9, qualcomm scorpion, and the newer -a15s and whatnot) are getting up into atom+ territory[05:32:27] <geist> cortex-a9 is roughly atom speed, per mhz[05:32:49] <geist> which makes sense, it's a similar design[05:33:35] <geist> so yeah, if you jam a dual core -a9 into a laptop, clock it at 1.5ghz or so, it's not going to be a monster powerhouse. it'd be more or less like a atom netbook (dual threaded 1.6ghz)[05:34:28] <geist> which of course is still a few times faster than a pentium3 or so[05:38:35] <geist> however, MIPS/watt arms are still quite good. by staying a generation or two behind in design methodology, they can ride a different piece of the curve and be very efficient[05:47:20] <helf2> yeah true[05:56:19] <helf2> id be pretty happy with a nice arm laptop[05:56:29] <helf2> if they'd ever put one out thats not a bulbous POS design[05:56:43] <helf2> or overly tiny for no real reason[06:00:23] <geist> yeah[06:00:30] <geist> i got one of the touchbooks a while back. totally lame[06:01:34] <helf2> im typing on an ancietn toshiba portege 3110ct. i LOVE its size. its perfect. the same design with a better screen and arm innards would make my day.[06:02:13] <helf2> i wish they'd make 4:3 popular again. widescreen only is killign designs. you get these horribly retangular laptops with no palm rest... :/[06:02:18] <geist> i remember having some crazy tiny hitachi japanese thing at Be, back in 99[06:02:27] <helf2> look up the 3110ct[06:02:30] <geist> it was a cute little laptop, even if it was a bit underpowered (pentium 266 iirc)[06:02:33] <helf2> its retardedly thing[06:02:38] <helf2> this ones a p2-300[06:02:50] <helf2> slow... but plenty usable for light stuff i use it for :p[06:03:04] <helf2> *thin[06:03:14] <geist> yep, i use my little atom netbook for surprisingly lot of things[06:03:20] <geist> it's fine for irc, light internets[06:03:29] <geist> and since it's cheap and has no spinning media, i can toss it around[06:03:45] <geist> my other laptops are these expensive mac things, and you want to treat them with care[06:03:50] <helf2> yeah. im running crunchbang on this with openbox. I use xchat, pidgin, links2-g and a few other light apps. couldnt be happier[06:04:26] <helf2> all the cheap netbooks ive owned/seen are pretty thick. it annoys me[06:04:42] <helf2> this thing is ancient with an old cpu and its less than half the thickness of most netbooks ive seen[06:04:48] <geist> yep, it is[06:04:56] <geist> with cheap, you dont get thin[06:05:10] <helf2> apparently. hehe. I dunno what this laptop retailed for, but im guessing a hefty sum[06:05:21] <geist> some page i'm seeing says $4400[06:05:27] <helf2> good lord[06:05:53] <helf2> no wonder... its build quality is fantastic. ill probably still be using it in 10 years. ive had it for 6-7 years now[06:06:39] <helf2> id like to slap an ssd in it at some point and try to find the elusive 128mb stick of ram that works in it and bump it to 192mb.. 128mb is kinda tight :)[06:06:41] <geist> yep, last machine i had like that was a pentium3 class sony vaio i got in 200[06:06:51] <geist> 2000, my dad has had it the last 6 years or so and it just now died last year[06:07:00] <geist> finally got a crack on the mobo or something that causes it to flake out[06:07:04] <helf2> lame[06:07:17] <helf2> this one has no flex to it. I'm hoping nothing like that happens[06:07:42] <geist> should play around with the powerbook some more. that was a nice machine[06:07:48] <geist> but it's utterly out of date now[06:07:58] <helf2> heh, yeah.[06:07:58] <geist> since apple ditched ppcs, etc[06:08:14] <geist> guess it'd run haiku ppc pretty well[06:08:15] <helf2> i loved my 11" mba. I'll probably get another one next year.[06:08:37] <geist> i'm torn on them. i'll need a new macbook at some point, but the airs are just slightly meh[06:08:40] <helf2> but this portege is really ideal. id love something modern with the same dimensions. it has a 10" screen[06:08:51] <geist> the fact that they only come glossy is a big :([06:08:53] <helf2> i like them for their diminutive size[06:08:59] <geist> otoh, that's a losing battle[06:09:02] <helf2> yeah.. it does kidna suck.[06:09:08] <helf2> this toshiba is matte[06:09:16] <helf2> meh, ill probably just use this toshiba forever.[06:09:20] <geist> the one i'm on now is a work machine, top of the line 2010 macbook pro with antiglare screen[06:09:37] <helf2> i hate how the "itmakes colors pop!" argument somehow holds water[06:09:48] <helf2> that apparently makes up for it being a mirror :p[06:10:07] <geist> in controlled light situations it's fine, and i think it does look a little better[06:10:12] <helf2> it does[06:10:17] <geist> but in every other situation, especially if you actually haul the laptop around at all[06:10:20] <helf2> but its a pita in an office setting[06:10:21] <geist> it's garbage[06:10:22] <helf2> or outside[06:10:36] <geist> right. i have a glossy 24" mac screen at work and i'm just about to throw it out the window[06:10:46] <geist> if anyone gets anywhere close to behind me it's a mirror[06:10:46] <helf2> the overhead lights in my work office were juuust right ot make it a pain to use on my desk.[06:11:03] <helf2> get a 3m cover for it[06:11:18] <geist> yeah, was thinking about it[06:11:27] <geist> i've just been working at home the last few weeks, avoids the problem entirely[06:11:35] <helf2> their privac... hello raccoon[06:11:36] *** MatthewH12 has quit IRC[06:11:44] <helf2> darn raccoons keep annoying my poor car[06:11:53] <helf2> er[06:11:53] <helf2> cat[06:12:09] * helf2 watches one walk by[06:12:28] <helf2> stupid things are so accustomed to people they dont even scare anymore.[06:13:12] <helf2> geist, I'd love for a matte screen on my phone :([06:13:22] <helf2> its the worst outside[06:13:34] <geist> yeah, though it's relaitvely easy to chane the angle dynamically[06:13:49] <helf2> it is..[06:16:51] <helf2> gotta go. night[06:29:14] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[06:29:25] *** HaikuUser is now known as kernel_joe[06:30:08] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[06:30:27] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[06:33:32] <kernel_joe> howto write multitrack ISO (boot, BeOS_Tools, X86, PPC) to DVD-RW ?[06:34:09] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[06:34:20] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[06:34:20] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[06:36:01] <kernel_joe> forget completly :)[06:40:03] <Skipp_OSX> kernel_joe: I have no idea... but I never knew so I couldn't forget[06:48:20] *** Disreali has quit IRC[06:55:37] *** slackee has joined #haiku[07:31:52] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[07:37:01] *** kernel_joe has quit IRC[07:43:58] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[07:47:00] *** Masq666 has quit IRC[07:50:54] *** Nozy has quit IRC[07:55:48] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[08:03:29] <polifasio> geist: still here?[08:04:05] <geist> yo[08:06:41] <polifasio> geist: what do you make of HP giving up on touchpads and phones? (and every other hardware, pretty much)[08:07:08] <geist> pretty lame[08:09:04] *** _marc` has quit IRC[08:09:37] <polifasio> geist: How different was WebOS's take on the Linux kernel, from Android's?[08:10:05] <geist> it's a much more standard linux kernel[08:10:11] <geist> though really android's isn't that weird either[08:10:20] <geist> most of the android kernel differences are overblown[08:11:25] <polifasio> how come people are making noise about porting android to touchpad, and not so much about getting webos on other places?[08:11:45] <geist> because most of webos is closed source[08:12:18] <polifasio> the gpl infection was contained, then? ;)[08:12:51] <polifasio> I found it harder than usual to find out stuff about webos internals[08:13:08] <geist> it's a quite open platform, but some of the key components were closed[08:13:32] <geist> it's open in the sense that you can get a shell on it quite easily, and palm/hp works with the hacker community[08:14:16] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[08:14:38] <polifasio> It's a far cry from GreenPhone (remember that one?) and OpenMoko, and[08:15:34] <polifasio> motorola's ming[08:16:25] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[08:16:51] *** fhein has joined #haiku[08:17:09] <polifasio> geist: I bought myself a webpad, way back[08:17:33] <polifasio> and I've also had windows tablet pc's, from as far back as 2003[08:18:00] <polifasio> and worked in having lycoris on those tablet pcs (first linux on such, afaik)[08:20:35] <polifasio> geist: do you think hp will let webos live?[08:27:43] <geist> probably not[08:27:52] <geist> that's why i'm more sad. it's just friends that are soon to be out of a job[08:29:47] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[08:29:51] *** jrabbit_ has joined #haiku[08:29:54] <polifasio> geist: are you able to keep yourself from being jaded? A way of not turning all cynical about it? I mean, Be, Palm, Sidekick, WebOS. I was on the sidelines, but you were... there.[08:30:00] <smop> webos is/was a lot better than i thought it would be[08:30:08] <smop> dunno why it didn't catch on[08:30:22] <smop> although the actual phones were kind of meh[08:30:43] <smop> hopefully rim doesn't kill off the playbook or makes a slightly larger one next cause i could just switch to that[08:30:47] <smop> since it's similar[08:31:04] <smop> the andriod tablets are okay, but the ui is really ugly[08:31:16] <polifasio> smop: if it is only one smudgen of a reason, but one of them is: AWFUL publicity. And not just little publicity. The publicity that existed was awful.[08:31:51] <smop> the only thing i can think of so far[08:31:58] <smop> is the build quality is a little sketchy[08:32:11] <smop> but it's not like 150 tablet sketchy[08:32:23] <smop> polifasio: i only heard that it was kind of good from the tech blogs[08:32:26] <smop> they didn't really not like it[08:32:36] <smop> but yeah the publicity was kidn of shitty[08:32:51] <geist> polifasio: writing code is like making castles in the sand. you just enjoy it while you can[08:34:10] <polifasio> you sound very zen about it. Pretty neat. You just brought a smile to my face.[08:34:39] <smop> until you have to build a sand castle that has to stop a wave in 15 minutes[08:35:03] <smop> and all your tools are half broken and your support is nearly non existant[08:35:17] <smop> no one else knows how to mold the shapes like you do[08:36:09] <geist> i have some code that has lived on. some in haiku, some in iOS[08:36:10] <geist> danger and Be code is dead... soon to be palm code[08:36:10] <geist> so it goes.[08:36:23] <smop> ya[08:36:30] <smop> will just move over to the playbook[08:36:38] <smop> call it a day[08:36:42] *** jrabbit_ is now known as jrabbit[08:37:02] <smop> sadly[08:37:10] <smop> i dont think rim will kill that off[08:39:00] *** adominguez has joined #haiku[08:39:04] <polifasio> rim built the playbook os on top of qnx, right? and they took interface cues from webos, too, right?[08:39:25] *** duvjones has joined #haiku[08:39:26] <geist> yep[08:39:50] <polifasio> geist: did any smidgen of beos or palm os go into webos?[08:39:58] <OmniMancer> geist: so now you can make more code live on in haiku :D[08:40:13] <geist> beos was bought by palmsource which turned into Access[08:40:19] <geist> palm != palmsource[08:43:13] <OmniMancer> yea[08:44:22] *** Cld has joined #haiku[08:47:41] *** Advant- has joined #haiku[08:47:41] *** Advant has quit IRC[08:51:11] <Skipp_OSX> but both are now dead[08:51:20] *** jrabbit_ has joined #haiku[08:52:31] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[08:53:03] <polifasio> Skipp_OSX: access is dead?[08:53:51] <geist> well, at least access doesn't care about beos[08:53:52] <OmniMancer> palm and palmsource[08:54:37] <polifasio> access is not dead http://www.access-company.com/home.html[08:54:39] *** Cian has joined #haiku[08:55:30] *** jrabbit_ is now known as jrabbit[08:55:47] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[08:56:10] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[08:56:10] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[08:56:26] <polifasio> geist: given the current state of Haiku, do you think the project could benefit a lot in the hypothetical case that, say, by magic, beos source code were available to haiku without legal restrictions?[08:56:58] <polifasio> (I said hypothetical, because I know it is not likely)[08:57:01] *** Mazon has quit IRC[08:57:16] <OmniMancer> I don't think it would benefit[08:57:20] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[08:57:26] *** Mazon has joined #haiku[08:57:40] <OmniMancer> AFAIK almost all beos stuff is already implemented[08:58:37] <Skipp_OSX> polifasio: there would be some benefit for some drivers for some older hardware that isn't supported in Haiku[08:58:46] <geist> probably[08:58:54] <geist> it would be a mess, but it would probably help in some edge cases[08:59:06] <OmniMancer> yea[08:59:09] <OmniMancer> but not much else[09:00:10] <polifasio> geist: when you say "mess", what do you mean? "Mess" in that it would be hard to integrate that code into current one? Or "mess" in the sense that the BeOS code was, messy?[09:00:36] <OmniMancer> polifasio: it would not be integrated[09:00:48] <OmniMancer> it would probably mostly be read to fix other things[09:00:52] <OmniMancer> not used itself[09:00:55] <geist> it would take a while to process it[09:01:03] <geist> it's reasonably clean, actually[09:01:20] <polifasio> geist: why, that's nice to know.[09:01:52] <polifasio> in terms of LOC, is Haiku far off from BeOS?[09:02:07] <geist> i dunno, i dont remember the size of beos[09:02:19] <geist> couple million lines? dont remember[09:03:27] <Skipp_OSX> can I do this `static_cast<BView*>(this)->ResizeTo(width, height);` to call the ResizeTo() method of a BView derived class in an overridded ResizeTo() method?[09:03:32] <polifasio> afaik, linux kernel has about 9 million lines of code[09:03:35] *** Pinaraf has joined #haiku[09:03:46] <geist> it's largely meaningless metric[09:04:04] <polifasio> mac os x has about 86 million[09:04:05] <Skipp_OSX> I want to call the ResizeTo method of BView in the overrided ResizeTo() method....[09:04:26] <polifasio> geist: i am aware of that. But it's hard to find any meaningful metric anyways[09:05:04] <Skipp_OSX> polifasio: well, perhaps in the entire OS but not in the Mac OS X kernel, you aren't comparing Apples to Apples[09:05:22] <fhein> comparing Apples to apple seeds :)[09:05:28] <polifasio> Skipp_OSX: touche. fair enough[09:05:40] <polifasio> windows has about 40 million[09:06:12] <polifasio> well, according to this source, anyways http://research.microsoft.com/~abegel/papers/ppig-naming.pdf[09:07:57] <polifasio> and according to KDE's press release, they have about 6 million ( http://www.kde.org/presspage/ )[09:09:14] <polifasio> I think the BeOS Bible mentioned that BeOS was about 2 million lines.[09:11:05] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[09:12:25] <polifasio> haiku? i found this http://www.ohloh.net/p/haiku?p=Haiku[09:12:59] <fhein> don't forget KDE needs Qt as well, if you're trying to come up with an estimate of a Linux based OS' size[09:13:03] <geist> 2 million sounds about right[09:16:14] *** Pinaraf has quit IRC[09:19:30] <polifasio> it's hard to find an estimate for linux. There is a 10 year old estimate of red hat that calculated it had 30 million back then. (and more interestingly, a cost of ...[puts pinky on mouth]... 1 BILLION dollars.[09:19:35] <polifasio> http://www.dwheeler.com/sloc/redhat71-v1/redhat71sloc.html[09:20:28] *** HaikUbuntu has joined #haiku[09:21:13] <polifasio> still, i am aware that lines of code is not a meaningful rating. Heck, according to the following, Firefox has about 70% the number of LOC as Haiku does. http://www.ohloh.net/p/firefox[09:21:38] <geist> well, to be fair, compilers, web engines, etc tend to suck up tons of loc[09:22:44] <polifasio> ...and openoffice is almost 4 times the size of haiku http://www.ohloh.net/p/openoffice[09:22:48] <OmniMancer> Skipp_OSX: call BView::ResizeTo()[09:23:37] <polifasio> but, then, this is odd. http://www.ohloh.net/p/ubuntu[09:25:01] <OmniMancer> another problem with LOC is there are various ways to "measure" it[09:25:08] <OmniMancer> you could take total line count of every file[09:25:14] <OmniMancer> lines of actual code in the files[09:25:20] <OmniMancer> then you have with or without comments[09:25:47] <polifasio> OmniMancer: well, ohloh.net shows you code, comments, and blanks[09:26:10] *** Cian has quit IRC[09:27:27] <polifasio> OmniMancer: now, this looks more detailed - Debian, 59 million: http://www.ohloh.net/p/debian/analyses/latest[09:28:06] <polifasio> (minus 11 million for comments and blanks, :)[09:28:28] <OmniMancer> Skipp_OSX: did you get my message?[09:31:31] <polifasio> by the way, I see they even include the files that are licensed under my favorite license: http://sam.zoy.org/wtfpl/[09:31:34] <Skipp_OSX> OmniMancer: oh, okay, that is way easier![09:33:15] *** VNA9216_ has joined #haiku[09:38:06] <Skipp_OSX> OmniMancer: and here is the fruit of said knowledge: http://imagebin.org/170089[09:40:57] <Skipp_OSX> It is hard to see in the screenshot the progress I've made but now scientific mode is optional (default off) that you can turn on and off. It automatically resizes the window to fit the extra buttons if the window is too small.[09:42:41] <Skipp_OSX> I am not sure if scientific mode is the best name for the option either...[09:43:17] <Skipp_OSX> maybe scientific keypad would be better since it only alters the keypad[09:43:33] *** nsuperbus has joined #haiku[09:46:46] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[09:47:27] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[09:48:28] *** [r4] has quit IRC[09:49:11] <Skipp_OSX> oh well, enough for now, gnight all[09:49:19] *** Skipp_OSX has quit IRC[09:52:04] *** kieselsteini has joined #haiku[09:58:50] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[10:00:03] <polifasio> good night.[10:01:44] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[10:08:57] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[10:11:35] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[10:30:00] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[10:31:31] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[10:41:27] *** HaikUbuntu has quit IRC[10:41:52] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[10:42:07] *** Ketsuban has quit IRC[10:42:32] *** Ketsuban has joined #haiku[10:48:02] *** VNA9216 has joined #haiku[10:48:51] *** Nozy has left #haiku[10:49:18] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[10:49:33] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[11:11:06] *** DDevine has joined #haiku[11:17:18] <Teknomancer> morning[11:18:34] <Xeon4D> morning Teknomancer[11:19:09] <Xeon4D> May I ask if anyone has tried Haiku on a Atom D525 board or similar?[11:19:09] <Teknomancer> morning Xeon4D[11:28:38] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[11:33:58] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[11:35:10] <geist> i have, yes[11:35:22] *** oco2 has joined #haiku[11:35:29] <geist> it's a mixed bag if the video will be detected properly[11:38:02] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[11:38:27] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[11:39:32] <Duggan> hey Teknomancer[11:39:52] <Duggan> I don't know if the DispatchMessage() thing will work or not...[11:40:30] <Duggan> seeing as it's passed a (BHandler*)target[11:41:19] <Duggan> which is very likely the wrong target for overlapping BViews[11:41:31] <Xeon4D> geist: Hi Travis. Do you remember which board you tried?[11:41:35] <Teknomancer> hi Duggan[11:42:11] <Duggan> at best I might be able to refigure the target on the fly but that would be a bit of work :/[11:42:55] <geist> I think it's one of the intel ones[11:42:57] <Duggan> a better solution would be to submit a patch to the app_server that selects the target (assuming that's determined in the app_server)[11:42:57] *** [r4] has quit IRC[11:43:37] <Teknomancer> hmm[11:43:42] <Duggan> that *correctly* selects the target.... assuming the "topmost target" is the last BView added.... but even that would have it's own share of bugs to deal with... and I don't know that that would give me the flexibility I need :/[11:44:33] <Duggan> maybe if there was a way to make it so that the app_server passed a list of possible targets, but that would be a PITA and probably not very realistic to maintain backward compatibility[11:45:59] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[11:46:19] *** Nozy has quit IRC[11:47:24] <Duggan> I would probably have to reimplement the target selection code... that would be a serious pain in the ass...[11:47:37] <Duggan> inside the BWindow class at that[11:48:39] <Teknomancer> hm why is BHandler a problem?[11:48:54] <Duggan> actually though I was considering some sort of intermediate class to add the z-level functionality, I may need to do only a minimal amount more than re-implementing the BWindow class (only replacing the necessary code)[11:49:05] <Teknomancer> BView is derived from BHandler[11:49:35] <Xeon4D> geist I have a couple around, gonna try with a D410PT and a D525MW[11:49:39] <Duggan> BHandler isn't, but the target (of BHandler* type (aka: BView, etc)) passed to the DispatchMessage() function is *likely* the wrong one[11:49:54] <Xeon4D> I'm assuming Haiku doesn't have issues with > 4GB of ram[11:50:15] <DDevine> Xeon4D: blissfully ignores it.,[11:50:25] <Teknomancer> Hm, yeah you'd probably have to filter through them somehow[11:50:25] <Duggan> considering you have multiple BViews attached to the same window and they overlap, the app_server can't determine which is the target so it assumes the first one it gets to, which is the first one added to the BView at that location[11:50:39] <Teknomancer> Can't say i've given this much thought yet[11:50:50] <Duggan> hehe no problem[11:51:10] <Duggan> app_server stores them as a simple list it seems and it doesn't care which one is on "top" in any given window (only which window is on top)[11:51:37] <Teknomancer> yeah seems if you really need z-order among views it's best supported in the app_server level[11:51:39] <Duggan> so while the BViews are drawn correctly, any input is sent in reverse order (bottom up) instead of top down[11:51:55] <Teknomancer> so would you be able to traverse all the views yourself?[11:51:56] <Duggan> yeah but that's not feasible[11:52:12] <Teknomancer> namely you'll have to keep track yourself of the z-order?[11:52:28] <Duggan> ... yes... but theres alot of other checking I'd have to do (that theoretically the app_server already does)[11:52:34] <Duggan> yes[11:52:54] <Duggan> remember, DispatchMessage() gets ALL input messages... even ones outside the current window[11:53:03] <Teknomancer> no it doesn't[11:53:07] <Teknomancer> or wait[11:53:09] <Teknomancer> let me recheck[11:53:12] <Teknomancer> i have a Haiku VM here[11:53:16] <Duggan> alright :)[11:53:29] <Duggan> if not all, then just about all.... alot of them not belonging to the current window[11:53:31] <Duggan> I know, I checked :)[11:53:33] <Teknomancer> no, works here, clicks outside the window[11:53:37] <Teknomancer> are not being sent to it[11:53:45] <Duggan> last time I checked here they were[11:54:01] <Teknomancer> Duggan: take a look at Beezer's about window code, it uses DispatchMessage() to process B_MOUSE_DOWN[11:54:07] <Teknomancer> and it won't work if the clicks happen outside[11:54:15] <Teknomancer> just trying it here on Haiku Alpha 3[11:55:35] <Duggan> I have a class i derived from BWindow and overrode the DispatchMessage() function.... 2 lines: message->PrintToStream(); and BWindow::DispatchMessage(message, target);[11:55:56] <Duggan> and it prints a whole lot of messages.... even if I'm clicking and typing outside of the window[11:56:08] <Teknomancer> i can quickly check that[11:56:09] <Teknomancer> moment[11:56:15] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[11:56:59] <Duggan> so, though I may be wrong, it seems to me that app_server may just broadcast all input messages to all windows?... I don't know...[11:57:30] *** Xeon3D has joined #haiku[11:57:40] <Teknomancer> they seem empty messages "_UPD[11:57:46] <Teknomancer> '_UPD' for all mouse moved[11:57:54] <Teknomancer> but the ones targetted at the window have other fields[11:57:58] <Teknomancer> like "when", "buttons"[11:58:02] <Teknomancer> "modifiers"[11:58:03] <Teknomancer> etc.[11:58:22] <Duggan> one sec[11:59:10] <Duggan> _MMV is mouse moved and those messages include all the appropriate modifiers[11:59:23] <Teknomancer> '_UPD' is _UPDATE_ message[11:59:24] <Duggan> even when I have another window targeted[11:59:41] <Teknomancer> yes but when it targets your window[11:59:47] <Teknomancer> the _MNV message is not empty[11:59:54] <Teknomancer> but has the pertinent information[11:59:56] <Duggan> the point is, my window is getting *all* input messages[12:00:13] <Teknomancer> yes but how is that a problem if you can easily filter out which one targets your window?[12:00:13] <Duggan> with additional info[12:00:33] <Teknomancer> there is even a "_view_token" field[12:00:38] <Teknomancer> and a "be:view_where" field[12:00:43] <Teknomancer> that might be of interest[12:00:57] <Teknomancer> although they're probably private and/or subject to change etc. (not intended to be used)[12:00:59] <Teknomancer> by apps[12:01:25] <Duggan> meh ultimately it's not a problem except that it would take quite a bit of code to filter it properly[12:01:53] <Teknomancer> as far as I can tell[12:02:02] <Teknomancer> all "outside" messages *only* contain a "what" field[12:02:04] <Teknomancer> nothing else[12:02:22] <Teknomancer> so the basic check like BMessage.CountFields() (if such a method exists) should be enough[12:02:27] <Teknomancer> or GetInfo() or something[12:03:04] <Duggan> that's not what i've got...[12:03:06] <Duggan> I'm getting all data[12:03:20] <Duggan> also means I could write a helluva keylogger super easy like :)[12:03:49] *** HaikUbuntu has joined #haiku[12:06:02] <Teknomancer> there's only one other message I get '_ACT' (probably window active message) that contains a bool field[12:06:14] <Teknomancer> I see other messages but no fields in them[12:06:19] <Teknomancer> including when i type outside the window[12:12:36] <Duggan> well there's obviously a case where all messages are sent to a window and I think it needs to be addressed[12:13:54] *** Xeon4D has quit IRC[12:14:11] <Duggan> I'm going to let somebody know in the dev channel[12:16:47] <Duggan> Xeon3D, DDevine can you guys try to verify?[12:17:28] <Duggan> and geist :)[12:21:13] <Duggan> well, I did my part... off to bed :)[12:21:23] <Duggan> I'll try to figure out more Teknomancer and I'll get back to you on that[12:21:28] <Teknomancer> sure[12:21:32] <Teknomancer> gnite[12:21:35] <Duggan> l8r[12:21:37] <Teknomancer> i go for lunch[12:21:37] <Teknomancer> :)[12:22:21] <Duggan> lol alright... l8r[12:24:50] <Xeon3D> Duggan: verify what?[12:24:53] <Xeon3D> :P[12:25:09] * Xeon3D thinks duggan forgot I can't code.[12:32:22] *** negusnyul has joined #haiku[12:43:12] *** HaikUbuntu has quit IRC[12:45:33] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[12:47:27] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[13:04:18] *** OmniMancer1 has joined #haiku[13:07:02] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[13:07:42] <Wizard> good afternoon[13:09:07] *** eml has quit IRC[13:10:55] *** eml has joined #haiku[13:15:44] *** VNA9216_ has quit IRC[13:25:15] *** VNA9216_ has joined #haiku[13:29:08] *** VNA9216_ has quit IRC[13:33:49] *** VNA9216_ has joined #haiku[13:46:00] *** oco2 has quit IRC[13:46:12] <Xeon3D> Good afternoon Wizard[13:52:58] <slackee> anyone here have dropped packets very often with atheroswifi driver?[13:53:36] <slackee> I get like 70-80% packet loss out of 200 pings and no errors shown in ifconfig and nothing meaningful in syslog[13:55:14] <slackee> well I do see stuff like ``KERN: /dev/net/atheroswifi/0: media change, media 0x8300b1 quality 1000 speed 10000000''[13:59:49] *** MatthewH12 has joined #haiku[14:00:08] *** Ketsuban has quit IRC[14:00:52] *** Xeon3D has quit IRC[14:01:23] *** Xeon4D has joined #haiku[14:06:33] *** lollo64it has quit IRC[14:08:58] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[14:21:56] <slackee> when I sit directly next to my router, I stop dropping packets but when I was running OpenBSD on this netbook I could be anywhere in my house without issue./[14:26:10] *** zgaga has joined #haiku[14:30:30] *** phoudoin has joined #haiku[14:30:30] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o phoudoin[14:37:07] *** OmniMancer1 has quit IRC[14:38:14] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[14:39:18] *** Nozy has quit IRC[14:45:13] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[14:46:07] *** zgaga has quit IRC[14:55:14] *** js has joined #haiku[14:55:23] <helf> morning[14:59:34] *** [Katisu]_m has joined #haiku[15:01:42] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[15:01:42] *** [Katisu]_m is now known as [Katisu][15:07:44] *** adominguez has quit IRC[15:20:15] *** nopper has quit IRC[15:38:59] *** nopper has joined #haiku[15:39:52] *** lollo64it has joined #haiku[15:52:25] *** LordLobo has joined #haiku[15:52:29] *** LordLobo has left #haiku[15:59:58] *** PacoLinux has joined #haiku[16:04:44] *** hoelzro has joined #haiku[16:05:30] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[16:26:18] *** kPb_in has joined #haiku[16:38:21] *** dru_ has joined #haiku[16:41:53] *** kallisti5 has joined #haiku[16:45:51] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[16:50:14] *** Disreali has quit IRC[16:50:29] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[16:51:23] *** DDevine has quit IRC[16:55:19] *** Disreali has quit IRC[16:55:40] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[16:57:04] *** Disreali_ has joined #haiku[16:57:27] *** leszek has joined #haiku[16:57:58] <leszek> hi[16:58:02] *** Disreali_ has quit IRC[16:58:59] *** LordLobo has joined #haiku[16:59:33] *** Disreali has quit IRC[17:00:47] *** DDevine has joined #haiku[17:01:02] *** _marc` has quit IRC[17:01:31] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[17:05:46] *** Disreali has quit IRC[17:05:47] *** DDevine has quit IRC[17:07:22] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[17:07:39] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[17:07:59] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[17:08:02] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[17:08:17] *** Xeon4D has quit IRC[17:08:51] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[17:09:59] *** Xeon4D has joined #haiku[17:11:39] *** xeon3d has joined #haiku[17:12:25] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[17:12:59] *** xeon3d has quit IRC[17:13:10] *** xeon3d has joined #haiku[17:13:22] *** xeon3d has quit IRC[17:13:33] *** xeon3d has joined #haiku[17:20:50] *** zgaga has joined #haiku[17:22:25] *** Xeon4D has quit IRC[17:30:23] <zgaga> I get sound on my PC only with OSS, but sound is choppy. Changing oss_core settings file helps but usually I have to restart media server more than 7 times (and after every boot into haiku)[17:32:18] <leszek> zgaga then report it to the bug tracker together with your specifications of your card[17:33:17] <zgaga> how can I get details about my sound card in terminal?[17:34:39] <zgaga> otherwise I have AC97 compatible card[17:36:02] <leszek> zgaga: listdev[17:46:38] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[17:47:09] *** zgaga has quit IRC[17:49:10] <Teknomancer> arghhh, i transferred some money from my bank to paypal.. it's disappeared from my bank, but hasn't shown up in paypal.. Welp!![17:51:10] *** zgaga has joined #haiku[17:51:20] <xeon3d> paypal is evil.[17:51:44] <xeon3d> Also, on a completely unrelated note, Intel D410PT is a nice board for Haiku. Everything's supported. :)[17:52:00] <xeon3d> cheap too[17:55:08] *** swarfega has quit IRC[17:58:35] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[17:58:50] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[17:59:02] *** zgaga has quit IRC[17:59:55] *** Malmis has joined #haiku[18:01:57] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[18:02:21] *** jrabbit_ has joined #haiku[18:03:00] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[18:03:28] *** jmelesky has joined #haiku[18:06:42] *** Disreali has quit IRC[18:11:57] *** zgaga has joined #haiku[18:13:40] *** tqh has joined #haiku[18:13:48] *** phoudoin has quit IRC[18:19:22] *** leszek has quit IRC[18:23:07] *** kieselsteini has quit IRC[18:29:30] *** kPb_in has quit IRC[18:32:53] *** luroh has joined #haiku[18:33:16] *** polifasio has quit IRC[18:44:05] <CIA-35> HaikuPorts: scottmc * r1770 /haikuports/trunk/media-libs/ (5 files in 3 dirs) http://ports.haiku-files.org/changeset/1770 : Initial .bep file for faac.[18:45:20] *** Cian has joined #haiku[18:45:28] *** dflemstr has joined #haiku[18:45:58] *** zgaga has left #haiku[18:51:59] *** Cian has quit IRC[18:55:01] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[19:03:10] *** polifasio has joined #haiku[19:03:29] *** jrabbit_ is now known as jrabbit[19:03:31] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[19:03:31] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[19:07:03] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[19:17:33] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[19:23:11] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[19:25:00] *** dufu1982 has joined #haiku[19:25:14] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[19:28:50] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[19:31:44] *** [r4] has quit IRC[19:32:31] *** yourpalal has quit IRC[19:32:31] *** dr_evil_ has quit IRC[19:36:48] *** Ketsuban has joined #haiku[19:40:50] *** volci has joined #haiku[19:41:31] *** Cian has joined #haiku[19:42:01] *** _marc` has quit IRC[19:44:10] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[19:46:19] *** PasNox has quit IRC[19:48:57] *** _marc` has joined #haiku[19:49:38] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[19:50:04] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[19:54:07] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[19:57:17] <Anarchos> hi pfoetchen[19:57:46] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[19:57:50] *** xeon3d has quit IRC[20:03:07] <Teknomancer> l8rz[20:04:25] *** Pinaraf has joined #haiku[20:06:46] *** [r4] has quit IRC[20:11:33] <pfoetchen> hi Anarchos[20:14:16] *** polifasio has quit IRC[20:18:58] *** [r4] has joined #haiku[20:27:12] *** Masq666 has joined #haiku[20:37:45] <Anarchos> pfoetchen let me know when you plan your trip :)[20:40:55] *** MegafiOS has joined #haiku[20:41:05] <pfoetchen> Anarchos: don't realy know yet... I planed to go with my parents... but my father will be in hospital this week so no idea what my parents plans are right now ;)[20:42:24] *** duvjones has quit IRC[20:42:28] *** MegafiOS has quit IRC[20:42:46] <PulkoMandy> tell me if there's an Haiku event around :)[20:44:02] *** MegafiOS has joined #haiku[20:48:30] *** appineer has joined #haiku[20:48:56] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[20:49:03] *** nopper has quit IRC[20:49:34] *** MegafiOS has quit IRC[20:49:52] *** MegafiOS has joined #haiku[20:52:59] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[20:53:16] *** nopper has joined #haiku[20:54:20] <Anarchos> pfoetchen oh ok, i hope he will be better ![20:54:49] *** orealis has quit IRC[20:55:30] *** orealis has joined #haiku[20:56:16] *** Cian has quit IRC[20:58:06] *** f1assistance has joined #haiku[20:58:16] *** appineer has left #haiku[20:58:34] *** f1assistance has left #haiku[20:59:05] *** f1assistance has joined #haiku[20:59:15] *** f1assistance has left #haiku[21:00:51] *** f1assistance has joined #haiku[21:05:33] *** demuxman has joined #haiku[21:07:08] *** [r4] has quit IRC[21:07:09] *** orealis has quit IRC[21:08:26] *** orealis has joined #haiku[21:13:09] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[21:15:40] *** orealis has quit IRC[21:16:37] *** orealis has joined #haiku[21:17:17] *** appineer has joined #haiku[21:21:27] *** demuxman has left #haiku[21:21:51] *** waveshaper has quit IRC[21:24:02] *** demuxman has joined #haiku[21:24:35] *** orbital_fox has joined #haiku[21:25:07] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[21:26:14] *** Disreali_ has joined #haiku[21:30:09] *** Disreali has quit IRC[21:31:21] *** Disreali_ has quit IRC[21:33:42] *** appineer has left #haiku[21:40:24] *** Feint has joined #haiku[21:43:08] *** Zevs_ has joined #haiku[21:47:07] *** f1assistance has left #haiku[21:49:17] *** lollo64it has quit IRC[21:50:43] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[21:51:20] *** demuxman has quit IRC[21:52:12] *** Tukeke has joined #haiku[22:02:05] <kallisti5> yahn. moving sucked[22:02:19] <kallisti5> oops... wrong channel ^_^[22:02:26] *** Tukeke has left #haiku[22:02:28] <Anarchos> kallis/whois kallisti5[22:02:45] <Anarchos> kallisti5 and wrong irc network :)[22:04:14] <Anarchos> ok i go to sleep[22:05:04] *** marc_smith has joined #haiku[22:09:49] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[22:14:14] *** MegafiOS has quit IRC[22:15:01] *** MegafiOS has joined #haiku[22:17:07] *** Zevs_ has left #haiku[22:18:48] *** MegafiOS has quit IRC[22:19:13] *** oco2 has joined #haiku[22:23:05] *** Ziusudra has joined #haiku[22:29:22] *** Ziusudra has quit IRC[22:30:45] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[22:40:50] *** mobyduck has joined #haiku[22:41:28] <mobyduck> Does anyone have sound via Creative Sound Blaster Live! 5.1?[22:42:42] *** marc_smith has left #haiku[22:50:57] *** fhein has quit IRC[23:03:37] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[23:06:46] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[23:07:33] *** Masq666 has quit IRC[23:10:10] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:12:32] *** jrabbit has quit IRC[23:12:43] *** jrabbit has joined #haiku[23:13:21] *** dufu1982 has quit IRC[23:13:59] *** tqh has quit IRC[23:14:45] *** mobyduck has quit IRC[23:31:20] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[23:36:06] *** Disreali has quit IRC[23:42:23] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[23:42:40] <HaikuUser> Anyone have Sound Blaster Live?[23:47:50] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[23:57:31] *** LordLobo has quit IRC