July 31, 2010 
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July 31, 2010 [00:03:43] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[00:04:29] *** oZ] has quit IRC[00:05:19] *** curlyman has quit IRC[00:05:35] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[00:07:08] <brobostigon> good night all, sleep well.[00:08:19] *** warpdesign has quit IRC[00:08:22] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[00:09:52] *** marc_smith has quit IRC[00:11:55] *** paul0 has quit IRC[00:14:52] *** slimindie has quit IRC[00:17:36] *** Skipp_OSX2 has quit IRC[00:33:36] *** PasNox has quit IRC[00:34:38] *** cpr420 has quit IRC[00:35:02] *** vooshy has quit IRC[00:36:10] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[00:37:26] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[00:40:19] *** Sir_Konrad_ has joined #haiku[00:45:09] *** kirilla has quit IRC[00:47:58] *** acous has quit IRC[00:49:47] *** srbaker has joined #haiku[00:51:19] *** xray7224 has quit IRC[00:56:02] *** cpr420 has quit IRC[00:56:17] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[00:58:03] *** Sir_Konrad has quit IRC[01:01:09] *** srbaker has quit IRC[01:06:00] *** Sir_Konrad_ is now known as 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*** Alam_Squeeze has joined #haiku[03:11:47] *** LoganA has joined #haiku[03:15:03] *** Sir_Konrad_ has quit IRC[03:15:27] *** Sir_Konrad_ has joined #haiku[03:18:11] *** oco2 has quit IRC[03:19:57] *** xray7224 has joined #haiku[03:49:46] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[03:50:05] *** Leon9 has joined #haiku[03:52:06] *** PacoLinux has quit IRC[03:55:41] *** Leon9 has quit IRC[03:56:01] *** Sir_Konrad_ has quit IRC[03:59:27] *** havokmalo has left #haiku[04:01:08] *** Trezker has quit IRC[04:10:32] *** Trezker has joined #haiku[04:20:22] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[04:20:32] <HaikuUser> hello[04:22:26] <cpr420> hello HaikuUser[04:22:37] <HaikuUser> having a bit of trouble.[04:22:44] <cpr420> aren't we all?[04:22:50] <HaikuUser> can't seem to get audio working on vmware[04:23:17] <bebop-haiku> HaikuUser if you go into the media prefs do you have an audio mixer?[04:23:31] * cpr420 thinks he needs the oss drivers[04:23:50] <HaikuUser> ok where is that. total newb[04:23:56] <dru345> yup needs the oss drivers for vmware[04:24:39] <HaikuUser> ok so where do I get those ?[04:24:49] *** Cheshire_Cat has quit IRC[04:24:49] *** Cheshire_Cat has joined #haiku[04:24:53] *** Cheshire_Cat is now known as Geoz[04:24:57] <dru345> in terminal, type installoptionalpackage -l[04:25:16] <dru345> i think it's called OpenSound[04:25:18] <cpr420> yeah, should be "installoptionalpackage opensound"[04:25:24] <dru345> ok :)[04:25:51] <HaikuUser> no space left[04:25:59] <HaikuUser> how do I make the install bigger ?[04:26:04] <HaikuUser> its a nightly nuild[04:26:08] <HaikuUser> fixed size IIRC[04:26:16] <cpr420> need to create another disk in vmware and then install onto that[04:26:35] <dru345> or delete something you don't need[04:26:46] <HaikuUser> I think I just found something to delte[04:26:49] <HaikuUser> let me try again[04:27:24] <HaikuUser> seems to be running this time[04:28:49] <HaikuUser> I need to modify a support ticket as well. whats the easieest way to do so ?>[04:29:16] <HaikuUser> says no packages to be installed[04:29:38] <cpr420> it's probably confused because the first attempt failed[04:31:43] <HaikuUser> acutally it says no packages need to be installed ? I wonder if it did manage to install[04:31:44] <HaikuUser> ???[04:31:45] <dru345> open /boot/common/data/optional-packages/InstalledPackages & delete OptionalPackageNames[04:32:51] *** JoeyA has quit IRC[04:33:00] <HaikuUser> I type this in terminal ?[04:33:09] <dru345> no[04:33:21] <HaikuUser> newb please be patient[04:33:28] <dru345> sorry.[04:33:49] <HaikuUser> where do I make this entry or how do I get to the location ?[04:33:53] <dru345> in terminal type: cd /boot/common/data/optional-packages/InstalledPackages[04:34:05] <dru345> then type this: rm OptionalPackageNames[04:35:06] <HaikuUser> says no such file or directory[04:35:06] <dru345> /boot is the Haiku boot drive, icon probably named Haiku (or similar on your desktop)[04:35:17] <dru345> ok[04:35:58] <dru345> is that said after the first command or the 2nd?[04:36:02] <HaikuUser> first[04:36:31] <dru345> gimme a sec. let me load haiku. trying to do from memory :)[04:36:45] <cpr420> I think you want to: rm InstalledPackages[04:37:18] <HaikuUser> no such file or directory[04:37:22] <HaikuUser> on the rm commands[04:37:49] <cpr420> yeah, let's try that again: rm /boot/common/data/optional-packages/InstalledPackages[04:38:15] <dru345> oops i see what i did :P[04:38:56] <HaikuUser> no such file or directory[04:39:08] <HaikuUser> hiaku needs a file browser[04:39:40] <cpr420> there is one, just browse the Haiku disk on your desktop[04:40:59] <HaikuUser> yeah not terrifically intuative[04:41:12] <cpr420> in what way?[04:41:22] <HaikuUser> windows slogger here.[04:41:27] <HaikuUser> used to the fancy buttons etc[04:41:38] <HaikuUser> this is very windows 3.1 like in alot of ways.[04:41:48] <HaikuUser> not that its a bad thing. Just been a while[04:41:58] <cpr420> more like mac, but anyhow you can enable the navigator buttons in single window mode[04:42:56] <HaikuUser> the last time I used a MAC was 1992 and I'd personally like it to stay that way[04:43:24] <cpr420> I wasn't suggesting that you use a mac, but your comparison to win3.1 was faulty[04:43:38] <HaikuUser> having used both. Its more like 3.1[04:43:47] <HaikuUser> did you ever use win 3.1 ?[04:43:58] <cpr420> I've used every version of windows ever made[04:44:06] <HaikuUser> unless my memory is shot from smoking lots of reffer. which is possiable[04:44:45] <HaikuUser> so how do I enable the navigation buttons etc ?[04:44:49] <HaikuUser> more windows style ?[04:45:00] <HaikuUser> funny thing is I like the windows UI but I hate the OS[04:45:16] <cpr420> feather menu on the deskbar -> preferences -> tracker[04:45:37] <cpr420> gah, now i'm calling it feather!![04:45:42] <cpr420> it's actually a leaf[04:45:52] * cpr420 should be punished for that one[04:46:33] <HaikuUser> lol it kind of could be either[04:47:06] <HaikuUser> did you notice the tremndous bloat in system resources in the last 2 windows versions ?[04:47:20] <HaikuUser> vista wants 1gb of ram minimum and idles on at least 75% of it[04:47:39] <HaikuUser> stuck with XP and was very reluctant to let go of win 98[04:47:56] <HaikuUser> I just upgrade my last work machine from 98 to XP. was pissed but the software hit a dead end[04:48:04] * dru345 punishes cpr420 with a wet noodle[04:48:16] <HaikuUser> I just couldn't update the applications and functionality was starting to suffer.[04:48:24] <HaikuUser> Looking forward to haiku[04:48:30] <HaikuUser> I think you guys have something.[04:48:40] <HaikuUser> with some UI tweaks it'll kick ass[04:50:29] <HaikuUser> I dunno about you guys but just figuring out where stuff is has been kind of a challenge for me. I don't work with stuff like this all day[04:50:56] <cpr420> the userguide can be helpful[04:51:18] <HaikuUser> if I could find it[04:51:21] <HaikuUser> LOL[04:51:29] <HaikuUser> I did find the install package folder ![04:51:33] <HaikuUser> so now what ?[04:51:41] <cpr420> http://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/contents.html[04:51:51] <HaikuUser> I just bookmarked it[04:52:11] <cpr420> Is there an InstalledPackages file in that folder?[04:52:28] <HaikuUser> yes[04:52:33] <HaikuUser> but WTF do I do with it ?[04:52:53] <HaikuUser> if the developers are reading this. Can we get a minimize button ?[04:53:04] <HaikuUser> you know like minimize the window to a task bar etc[04:53:05] <cpr420> double click the title bar[04:53:12] <HaikuUser> sweet thanx ![04:53:31] <HaikuUser> I assume dobule click to reopen[04:53:37] <HaikuUser> very used to the windows task bar[04:53:44] <HaikuUser> 20+ years of nothing but windows[04:53:50] *** ambroff has quit IRC[04:53:54] <HaikuUser> still I do have a apple IIe[04:54:02] <HaikuUser> yes it works ![04:55:00] <cpr420> you can either edit that file and remove opensound or just delete it[04:55:12] <HaikuUser> ok so first what program edits ?[04:55:19] <cpr420> just double click[04:55:27] <dru345> double-click and it'll open in stylededit[04:55:55] <HaikuUser> ok it says it is in there[04:56:01] <HaikuUser> so just delete the tnery ?[04:56:03] <HaikuUser> entry ?[04:56:15] <cpr420> yeah[04:56:44] <HaikuUser> go back to terminal and try to reinstall now ?[04:56:55] <HaikuUser> thats like the easiet way to remove software I have seen yet[04:57:05] <HaikuUser> I assume hiaku does not use a registry like windows ?[04:57:07] *** Trezker has quit IRC[04:57:16] <cpr420> well, that script is only temporary until we have real package management[04:57:31] <HaikuUser> ah. are they going to keep calling it package ?[04:57:38] <HaikuUser> the conotations are amusing to be honest.[04:57:44] <HaikuUser> I can see the type now.[04:57:51] *** Trezker has joined #haiku[04:57:54] <HaikuUser> Installing Reallybig package into socket A[04:58:06] <HaikuUser> Slot B is ready[04:59:43] <HaikuUser> still refusing to install open sound[05:00:27] <cpr420> it might have cached the bad zip file if it ran out of space while downloading[05:01:09] <HaikuUser> so how can we clean this up ?[05:01:41] <cpr420> I think somewhere in common/cache there will be a zip file hiding[05:01:50] <cpr420> maybe dru345 knows the location[05:02:03] <dru345> yeah hold on[05:02:40] <HaikuUser> I found it TMP in boot/common/cache/tmp[05:02:48] <cpr420> you may also need to double check that the entry wasn't added to the InstalledPackages file[05:03:04] <dru345> you can just download it here - http://haiku-files.org/files/optional-packages/[05:04:22] <HaikuUser> opensound.correct ?[05:04:29] <dru345> yup\[05:05:34] <HaikuUser> april 30 2010 looks like the most recent[05:05:56] <HaikuUser> so once I DL it. what next?[05:06:13] <dru345> double-click it[05:06:17] <HaikuUser> I also check all the install files. Looks like all the open sound entrys have been removed[05:06:34] <cpr420> that won't matter if you're doing it manually[05:06:48] <HaikuUser> hanging on the DL part. wierd how I have a 20mb connection and the nat adapter runs so slow[05:07:13] <cpr420> using a nightly image? there are networking issues the past week[05:07:36] <HaikuUser> ahh it seems to be stable aside from the wierd download thing[05:07:41] <HaikuUser> seems to run in bursts[05:08:07] <HaikuUser> I also think the hiaku server runs a bit slow at times[05:08:31] <HaikuUser> noticed a similar behavior with IE 8 and downloading the nightly image[05:09:43] <HaikuUser> do I have to reinstall webposotive if I dl a nightly build again ?[05:09:47] <HaikuUser> or is it included now ?[05:09:58] <HaikuUser> I think the build has issues[05:10:03] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[05:11:42] *** Animal-X has quit IRC[05:15:19] *** cpr420 has left #haiku[05:54:43] *** matthias9 has quit IRC[05:56:32] *** matthias9 has joined #haiku[05:57:44] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[05:57:49] <HaikuUser> hello[05:57:59] <HaikuUser> ok updated to the newest nightly nuild.[05:58:07] <HaikuUser> opensound installed just fine[05:58:45] <dru345> good[05:59:08] <HaikuUser> now I need to find a way to import some media to see if it works[05:59:42] <HaikuUser> ok I still don't have a sound driver installed[06:00:07] <HaikuUser> I wish you guys could support my Motherboard[06:00:13] <HaikuUser> but alas. Thats gonna be a while[06:00:47] <dru345> aren't you in vmware?[06:01:07] <HaikuUser> yes[06:01:13] <dru345> did you reboot the vm after installing opensound?[06:01:15] <HaikuUser> I want to run my machine fulltime on hiaku[06:01:19] <HaikuUser> no I did not[06:01:23] <HaikuUser> should I reboot ?[06:01:33] <HaikuUser> Not familair with how the OS updates etc[06:01:39] <dru345> yeah might as well[06:01:47] <HaikuUser> ok brb[06:01:49] <dru345> k[06:02:01] <HaikuUser> BTW is there anything setup wise on the vmware I should have configured ?[06:02:22] <dru345> no[06:02:23] <fildon> restarting the media server in Preferences -> Media should reload the sound drivers too[06:02:29] <dru345> that too[06:02:58] <fildon> i never had to reboot after installing opensound :)[06:03:07] <HaikuUser> ah that seems to have done the trick.[06:03:11] <HaikuUser> now for some media ![06:03:17] <HaikuUser> thats gonna be a bit trickier[06:04:22] *** Disreali has quit IRC[06:07:28] <HaikuUser> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1940479/kcproperiraacurve.wav[06:07:37] <HaikuUser> I started digitizing old 45's a while back[06:07:45] <HaikuUser> curious to see how this sounds on hiaku[06:08:31] <HaikuUser> I don't know if any of you are into old records but this one sounds great.[06:08:37] <dru345> might hear some static[06:08:46] <HaikuUser> amazing actually becuase it was pretty dirty etc. I spent alot of time cleaning it[06:09:01] <HaikuUser> really static ?[06:09:31] <dru345> i've noticed using opensound in a vm playing a .wav sometimes has static or glitches.[06:09:46] *** Trezker has quit IRC[06:09:48] <HaikuUser> I got a pretty stout system[06:10:03] <HaikuUser> plays really clear[06:10:07] <HaikuUser> sounds like my DAW[06:10:10] <HaikuUser> big ups ![06:10:22] <dru345> i've not had a problem with mp3s, just wavs[06:11:15] <HaikuUser> have a listen to that file I posted[06:11:47] <HaikuUser> no artifacts I can hear[06:11:53] <HaikuUser> clock sounds about perfect[06:12:16] <HaikuUser> I have a few hundred more of these old 45's I have been capturing[06:12:58] <HaikuUser> you do have a problem with digital clipping[06:13:09] <HaikuUser> anything above zero cuases clipping[06:14:25] <dru345> I hadn't noticed[06:14:26] *** Leon9 has joined #haiku[06:14:44] <HaikuUser> could be a combination of the translation layers[06:15:47] <HaikuUser> webpositive just hosed down VMware pretty hardcore[06:16:01] <dru345> it happens[06:16:16] <dru345> got gdb?[06:16:19] <HaikuUser> ok so all of a sudden I am seeing big process usage[06:16:25] <dru345> oh[06:16:26] <HaikuUser> well thats what it would be in windows.[06:16:43] <HaikuUser> CPU is maxing out had been fine till now[06:16:48] <dru345> ok[06:16:55] <HaikuUser> is there anyways to see what is happening ?[06:17:23] <dru345> yes[06:17:53] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[06:18:09] <dru345> Activity Monitor in Applications[06:18:11] <dru345> o :P[06:21:21] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[06:21:49] *** Trezker has joined #haiku[06:28:19] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[06:28:50] <HaikuUser> vision is leaking memory[06:28:58] <HaikuUser> or its VMware leaking memory[06:29:19] <HaikuUser> either way. Listening to a wav file and using vision used up 1.9gb of ram[06:30:08] <HaikuUser> right now its 20 seconds since log on and we started at 200mb or ram and now we are at 330mb[06:30:22] *** JoeyA has joined #haiku[06:30:40] <HaikuUser> I shut down the the wav file. Its still climbing[06:30:49] <HaikuUser> 1mb a second[06:31:31] *** Trezker has quit IRC[06:31:38] <HaikuUser> cpu is at 2%[06:31:50] <HaikuUser> listening to the wav and using vision[06:34:46] <HaikuUser> huh[06:34:57] <HaikuUser> well VMware s still using up loads of ram[06:35:05] <HaikuUser> I have plenty[06:35:27] <HaikuUser> but according to haiku most process usage is below 5% total excpet for the kernel team[06:36:27] <dru345> if you find bugs, you can post a ticket - http://dev.haiku-os.org[06:37:03] <HaikuUser> enabling virtual memory actually seems to have stopped the ram leak[06:37:18] <HaikuUser> I don't think this is a haiku bug[06:37:28] <dru345> i think it is[06:37:30] <HaikuUser> it also seems to have fixed the ocassional glitch in the audio[06:37:58] <HaikuUser> the issue with saying this is a haiku bug is that VMware is repoting 68mb of ram usage[06:37:59] *** nisstyre65 has quit IRC[06:37:59] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[06:37:59] *** kjalarr has quit IRC[06:38:13] <HaikuUser> however windows is reporting 650mb[06:38:20] <HaikuUser> for VMWare[06:38:23] <dru345> ic[06:38:31] <HaikuUser> funny thing is the CPU doesn't even notice[06:38:37] <HaikuUser> less then 2%[06:39:19] <HaikuUser> one wav with one teapot is 25% of one core[06:39:27] <HaikuUser> running vision[06:40:45] *** srbaker has joined #haiku[06:40:46] <HaikuUser> now thats interesting[06:40:58] <HaikuUser> I opened webpositive and it just about crashed VMware[06:41:04] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[06:41:08] <dru345> hi Teknomancer[06:41:13] <HaikuUser> it is also maxing out the virtual cpu[06:41:57] <HaikuUser> yeah webpositive is what cuased the crash[06:42:38] <HaikuUser> I fired up that program and the cpu usage pegged[06:42:54] <HaikuUser> is there anyway in vmware to allow for more cpu power ?[06:42:57] <HaikuUser> I have the power[06:43:24] *** nisstyre65 has joined #haiku[06:43:56] <dru345> yes[06:44:06] <HaikuUser> do tell[06:44:14] <HaikuUser> I can give this thing more[06:44:32] <HaikuUser> I have resources to spare. I wonder if its taxing the virtual cpu or if there is a thread conflict ?[06:44:33] <dru345> open the virtual machine settings and look at Processors & RAM[06:44:44] <dru345> you can offer more cores[06:44:51] *** kjalarr has joined #haiku[06:45:04] *** Trezker has joined #haiku[06:45:17] <HaikuUser> not in vmware but in oracle virtual box you can[06:45:37] <dru345> what do you mean?[06:45:52] <HaikuUser> well there are 2 virtual machines[06:45:54] <HaikuUser> I use[06:46:03] <HaikuUser> one is VMware Player[06:46:11] <HaikuUser> the other is Oracle VM Virtualbox[06:46:13] <dru345> oh the player[06:46:19] <dru345> I can set more cores in vmware fusion.[06:46:27] <HaikuUser> vmware fusion ?[06:46:30] <HaikuUser> link[06:46:32] *** impy has quit IRC[06:46:32] <dru345> mac product[06:46:44] <HaikuUser> mac's blah[06:49:54] <HaikuUser> This is a vmware problem[06:50:05] <HaikuUser> well I gotta work early tommorow.[06:50:10] <srbaker> i' old enough to remember when it was just called VirtualBox, but had a Sun logo on it[06:50:19] <HaikuUser> I put in a bug ticket in a day or so once I test with a different virtual machine[06:50:34] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[06:51:06] <dru345> ok. goodnight![06:51:18] <dru345> ok. should be ok with virtualbox[06:51:31] <dru345> srbaker - same product, sun bought innotek[06:51:39] <srbaker> dru345: i know, i was joking[06:51:52] <dru345> oh oops yeah lol when it was sun. i misread.[06:52:06] <dru345> i liked the sun logo more :/[06:52:18] <cpr420> i liked sun more :/[06:52:27] <cpr420> regardless of the logo[06:52:27] <dru345> mhmm[06:52:30] <dru345> :D[06:52:38] <dru345> openlook ftw :D[06:52:47] <cpr420> dps ftw![06:52:52] <dru345> that too :/[06:54:52] *** Leon9 has quit IRC[06:55:39] *** impy has joined #haiku[06:55:51] *** RAW has joined #haiku[06:58:08] *** Leon9 has joined #haiku[07:13:32] *** Trezker has quit IRC[07:14:02] *** Trezker has joined #haiku[07:20:48] *** Leon9 has quit IRC[07:33:15] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[07:38:14] *** cpr420 has quit IRC[07:39:08] *** srbaker has quit IRC[07:52:36] *** Leon9 has joined #haiku[07:54:36] *** fildon has quit IRC[07:57:04] *** RQ has joined #haiku[08:08:23] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[08:13:00] <jmayfield> um... hi[08:13:31] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[08:13:56] <RQ> hi[08:16:12] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[08:21:23] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[08:24:53] *** Leon9 has quit IRC[08:25:35] *** Leon9 has joined #haiku[08:26:07] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku[08:26:27] *** Leon9 has quit IRC[08:29:23] *** jmayfield has quit IRC[08:30:54] *** DraX has quit IRC[08:31:10] *** DraX has joined #haiku[08:31:35] *** lorglas has quit IRC[08:48:38] *** JoeyA has quit IRC[08:52:35] *** voidref has joined #haiku[08:55:16] <voidref> did I imagine it, or did I read somewhere that Qt was ported to Haiku?[08:55:43] *** Trezker has quit IRC[08:56:09] <voidref> yo geist, how's things![08:56:47] <RQ> it is[08:57:06] *** Hubert_ has joined #haiku[08:57:32] <voidref> that's interesting news[08:57:41] <voidref> how do you think it will affect adoption of the BeOS API?[08:57:55] <voidref> I mean, it's like a complete windowing system[08:57:58] <voidref> well, maybe not complete[08:58:02] <voidref> ok, maybe not a windowing system[08:58:12] <voidref> but there's a lot of stuff there[08:58:13] *** srbaker has joined #haiku[08:58:28] <RQ> well, the fact is it makes beos more viable as a platform[08:58:38] <RQ> err.... Haiku, that is[08:58:42] <voidref> quite true, haha[08:58:47] <voidref> yeah, it's still hard to change[08:58:58] <voidref> and it's been like 10 years[08:59:00] <RQ> and you kno[08:59:08] <RQ> it's been on OS X and Windows for ages[08:59:17] <RQ> and hasn't made their native APIs obsolete[08:59:21] <voidref> and Leenookis as well[08:59:40] <voidref> BeOS a bit more of a niche though[08:59:43] <voidref> err, Haiku[08:59:44] <RQ> well, Linux doesn't have a proper native gui API, so I skipped it on purpose :)[08:59:50] <voidref> haha[09:00:09] <RQ> both GTK+ and Qt are first class citizens on Linux[09:00:09] <voidref> so it's really that Qt was ported to X[09:00:27] <voidref> KDesktop is all Qt, right?[09:00:36] <RQ> yes[09:00:56] <RQ> and there's a project that compiled quite a few KDE apps for Haiku, I think[09:01:10] <voidref> are you are current Haiku dev, or an enthusiast?[09:01:28] <RQ> there, http://tiltos.com/drupal/node/17[09:01:38] <RQ> enthusiast, I think[09:01:47] <RQ> and a localizer[09:02:23] *** [Katisu]_m has joined #haiku[09:02:54] <voidref> ah, cool, localization has always been important to the project[09:03:36] <voidref> does geist ever actually show up here?[09:04:13] <RQ> no idewa[09:04:15] <RQ> *idea[09:04:17] <jmayfield_> actually show up in an irc channel?[09:04:19] <jmayfield_> :-p[09:04:24] <voidref> haha[09:04:48] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[09:04:49] *** [Katisu]_m is now known as [Katisu][09:05:16] <voidref> does anevilyak ever pop in here?[09:05:51] <jmayfield_> hehe[09:06:11] <voidref> mmu_screen: hey man![09:06:30] <voidref> well, he's screened out, so probably won't see that[09:09:31] <voidref> what part of haiku is needing the most help these days?[09:09:35] <voidref> How's the kernel?[09:09:41] <voidref> what's the best graphics hardware to use?[09:10:01] <voidref> how much luck have people had running it on Macs?[09:10:13] <voidref> does everyone use it in a VM instead?[09:10:45] <RQ> I have it on a separate partition[09:10:48] <RQ> next to Linux :P[09:10:54] <voidref> dual boot?[09:11:20] <RQ> yes[09:11:51] <voidref> Is everyone still using Vision for IRC?[09:12:20] <RQ> if it had latest versions of Firefox and Thunderbird working, I would probably make it the main OS on this box[09:12:45] <voidref> hmm, i wonder if anyone has tried porting Chrome to it...[09:12:55] <voidref> Chrome is currently my fave browser[09:13:06] <voidref> but I suppose there is the multiprocess thing to contend with[09:13:19] <voidref> which you would think would be EASIER on Haiku[09:13:34] <voidref> wait ... Firefox not working?[09:13:35] <RQ> I'm a localizer of Mozilla too[09:13:44] <voidref> that used to be the only browser that would work on it[09:13:47] <RQ> and I almost can't live without firebug :)[09:13:48] <jmayfield_> hmm ..random songs in a playlist full of gong, jethro tull, and king crimson makes for an interestingly weird backdrop of tunes[09:13:50] <voidref> or was that anotehr os?[09:14:09] <RQ> voidref: it became unsupported at some point[09:14:11] <voidref> Elephant Talk?[09:14:17] <voidref> oh, ouch, that sucks[09:14:29] <voidref> I guess it's not unexpected given the death of BeOS proper[09:14:42] <voidref> and then the Zeta crash and burn[09:14:45] <RQ> yeah, I think the problem back then was GCC2[09:15:00] <voidref> please tell me that Haiku has thrown out gcc2[09:15:10] <RQ> Firefox got a dependency on Cairo, which required newer GCC, I think[09:15:24] <RQ> Haiku is a hybrid gcc2 and gcc4 OS now[09:15:39] <dru345> gcc2 for beos app compatibility[09:15:41] <voidref> wow, that's ... disappointing[09:15:45] <dru345> why?[09:15:57] <dru345> best of both worlds[09:16:01] <voidref> because gcc2 is such a crusty peice of software[09:16:06] <voidref> oh, wait hybrid?[09:16:09] <RQ> yes[09:16:11] <dru345> build with gcc4 then[09:16:11] <voidref> it has both sets of libs?[09:16:13] <dru345> yes[09:16:20] <voidref> nice, that's at least cool[09:16:30] <voidref> what old beos apps are still in use?[09:17:04] *** Shisui has joined #haiku[09:17:06] <jmayfield_> years later, i still say beos compat is a lame distraction :-p[09:17:17] <voidref> i agree[09:17:30] <voidref> at this point it's got to be only for ... Tune Tracker[09:17:40] <jmayfield_> beos wasnt great becaus eit reimplemented old notions.. it was great because it was new[09:17:42] <voidref> and people who have Gobe Productive installed[09:17:44] <RQ> I guess they plan to throw out GCC2 right after Haiku v1[09:18:14] <jmayfield_> ok, i'll not rant[09:18:19] <voidref> please do![09:18:23] <RQ> :)[09:18:24] <voidref> gcc2 sucks![09:18:55] <voidref> I see a problem with Haiku is that it needs to stop trying to make parity with r5, and start doing new things[09:19:05] <voidref> it was ahead of it's time ... 10 years ago[09:19:09] <voidref> now it's not.[09:19:09] <jmayfield_> it just seems like the most unbeosly principled thing possible..redoing some old idea[09:19:33] <voidref> so true[09:20:11] <jmayfield_> i'll be honest, its hard to get excited about haiku beyond the nostalgia of being an old beos user[09:20:16] <voidref> all the major vendors are starting to introduce scene-graph based windowing systems, and Haiku is playing catch up to the old one.[09:20:45] *** Trezker has joined #haiku[09:21:06] <voidref> is phipps still running it?[09:21:06] <jmayfield_> .no offense inteded to all the devs and their hard work.. just my ramblings[09:21:11] <RQ> well yeah. I'm still surprised they don't even plan multiuser support for R1[09:21:22] <voidref> oh man[09:21:33] <RQ> single-user OS'es are so dead[09:21:35] <voidref> Zeta was getting multi user support like 5 years ago...[09:21:57] <RQ> did it have it?...[09:22:00] <voidref> i think it's just a REALLY BIG project with nothing but volunteers[09:22:13] <voidref> it was starting to[09:22:21] <voidref> ask MMU_Man[09:22:25] <voidref> he was writing it[09:23:45] <RQ> well, it never got it, dit it? :)[09:23:48] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[09:23:59] <voidref> so, is the functioning browser for Haiku based on Web Kit?[09:24:04] <voidref> it pretty much did have it[09:24:04] <RQ> yes[09:24:10] <voidref> but I don't think that version go released[09:24:13] <RQ> It's called WebPositive[09:24:18] <voidref> hah, nice[09:24:39] <RQ> (not sure about correct capitalization though)[09:24:42] <voidref> yT was also working on replacing the kernel with one from BSD[09:25:04] <voidref> It should have been called NetPositive+[09:25:04] <voidref> haha[09:25:25] <voidref> and also moving to gcc4[09:25:30] <voidref> and that was like 6 years ago[09:25:52] <voidref> and they only had a handful of engineers[09:26:26] <voidref> of course, there's nothing like getting paid full time to work on code that you love =)[09:27:01] <RQ> voidref: don't forget that yT was working on BeOS while Haiku reimplements everything from scratch as MIT-licensed code[09:27:20] <voidref> Yeah, that's a huge hurdle, no doubt[09:27:31] <RQ> that is a huge difference in terms of manpower consumption[09:27:39] <voidref> BeOS was already 10 years old by that time, and Be had like 100 engineers[09:28:08] <voidref> or maybe it was 150 employees[09:28:21] <RQ> I still wonder what would have happened had BeOS became the next OS X[09:28:28] <RQ> err, Mac OS, that is[09:28:37] <voidref> well .. Apple would not have gotten Jobs[09:28:49] <voidref> so no iPhone[09:29:10] <voidref> actually, there's no way to say[09:29:15] <voidref> there could have been something better[09:29:31] <RQ> well, the world would probably be different now.. :)[09:29:33] <voidref> when Palmsource bought Be, they started doing a mobile OS with the technology[09:30:18] <RQ> yep[09:30:30] <voidref> but Palm had no vision, they pretty much got a cool touchscreen OS, and then abandoned it for BlackBerry style OS, which they then tried to reimpleent from scratch on top of Linux[09:30:39] <voidref> and Palmsource, is completely dead[09:30:47] <voidref> Access bought them, and tried for a couple of years[09:30:59] <voidref> they scrambled when the IpHone was annonced to change everything over to touch screen again[09:31:11] <voidref> but they couldn't get done.[09:31:26] <voidref> the Japanese management didn't understand innovation[09:31:32] <voidref> but I'm not bitter! ;)[09:35:32] <voidref> well crap, I came to this server to hop on the reddit channel, how did I end up here?[09:35:55] *** srbaker has quit IRC[09:36:23] *** srbaker has joined #haiku[09:37:00] <voidref> do people still use BeShare?[09:37:50] <RQ> no idea :)[09:40:21] <Hubert_> voiderf: propably yes ;)[09:41:06] <PulkoMandy> we see people coming in here and asking why some beshare server went down, from time to time[09:41:17] <PulkoMandy> but we don't provide a client for it in haiku[09:42:48] <RQ> oh hey PulkoMandy! ;)[09:43:06] <PulkoMandy> :)[09:43:10] <jmayfield_> heh[09:43:56] <jmayfield_> i fired up my pygtk muscle/beshare client about a year ago.[09:44:09] <jmayfield_> or is it more like 2 years ago[09:44:10] <voidref> no client in Haiku? It's open source, grab it from BeBits ... oh, that's probably gone =)[09:44:25] <RQ> it's not[09:44:29] <voidref> no?[09:44:31] <voidref> wow[09:44:43] <RQ> though it obviously has dead links[09:44:54] <RQ> to downloads that no longer exist[09:44:54] <voidref> holy cow, it's like looking into the past![09:45:00] <PulkoMandy> well, we don't update bebits anymore, it's kept for history[09:45:15] <PulkoMandy> now you can go to www.haikuware.com for fresh software[09:45:24] <PulkoMandy> but still bebits has 3 times more traffic[09:46:46] <voidref> I wonder if I can find the source and republish this crap again: http://bebits.com/app/1486[09:46:56] *** srbaker has quit IRC[09:47:32] *** HaikuBuntu has joined #haiku[09:49:28] <jmayfield_> hehe... http://bebits.com/app/3705[09:52:17] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[09:52:53] <voidref> does Creator come with Haiku by default now?[09:53:01] <voidref> Qt Creator, that is[09:53:32] <RQ> Qt doesn't come with Haiku by default[09:54:20] <voidref> I don't see it on Haikuware[09:55:21] <RQ> not sure about haikuware, but you can find it on http://tiltos.com/[09:55:53] *** HaikuBuntu has quit IRC[09:55:59] <RQ> or maybe not[09:56:05] <RQ> doh, i'm not sure[09:56:54] <voidref> http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/qt-beos/[10:00:16] *** DraX_ has joined #haiku[10:00:27] <voidref> ok, one last thing, that I am afraid I know the answer to ... 64 bit?[10:00:54] *** DraX has quit IRC[10:05:31] *** Geoz has quit IRC[10:06:20] *** simulacrum has joined #haiku[10:10:43] <PulkoMandy> not yet[10:10:53] <PulkoMandy> 64bit is work in progress this summer[10:13:02] <Trezker> is it progressing well?[10:16:18] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[10:16:42] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[10:18:03] <PulkoMandy> I think the bootloader is ready, but the kernel not so much[10:18:14] <PulkoMandy> and then maybe we'll have problems with some apps[10:20:15] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[10:22:12] *** dru345-haiku has joined #haiku[10:23:21] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[10:24:30] *** [Jc] has quit IRC[10:25:39] *** [Jc] has joined #haiku[10:39:42] *** Advant has quit IRC[10:41:58] *** Advant has joined #haiku[10:43:42] *** RAW is now known as impy_[10:47:41] *** |PulkoMandy| has joined #haiku[10:50:14] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[10:50:27] *** davisr has quit IRC[11:06:06] *** kurain has joined #haiku[11:06:21] <kurain> hello all[11:09:42] <RQ> hi[11:10:20] <Hubert_> RQ: http://qt-haiku.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=37:news&Itemid=18&layout=default[11:14:57] <RQ> yeah, right[11:15:12] <RQ> that makes me wonder why the VLC port still isn't public[11:15:17] <RQ> seven months have passed[11:15:35] <Hubert_> maybe dont work[11:15:46] <Hubert_> correctly[11:16:20] <RQ> still, it could be called an alpha or something[11:17:05] <RQ> Hubert_: btw are you the same hubert from aviary.pl?[11:21:26] <Hubert_> RQ: sorry, its not me[11:21:45] <RQ> no prob[11:23:02] <kurain> wow, the apps based qt look fine and beautiful[11:23:47] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[11:24:05] <dru345> hi mmadia[11:24:12] <dru345> hi kurain[11:24:16] <Hubert_> RQ: I was use beta 1.0.4 from Miqlas and not working on my system[11:24:54] <kurain> hi dru345[11:25:31] <Hubert_> RQ: so probably still makes the problem[11:26:18] <RQ> i see[11:26:26] <kurain> I am trying python, I know that python can work on haiku , but can django work on haiku?[11:26:35] <|PulkoMandy|> we don't want vlc to use qt[11:26:41] <|PulkoMandy|> we want a native interface[11:26:55] <|PulkoMandy|> that you can drag queries on and play them just like mediaplayer :)[11:27:22] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: and if the choice is between Qt and nothing at all?[11:27:42] <|PulkoMandy|> why nothing ? we still have a perfectly working vlc 0.8[11:28:37] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[11:30:16] <kurain> the reason why haiku doesn't use apps based on QT is that they will bring complex features/[11:30:27] <kurain> ?[11:31:58] <mmadia> actually, we don't want VLC at all.[11:32:16] <dru345> i do :P[11:32:23] <mmadia> MediaPlayer should be improved instead -- that's why it isn't included in releases[11:34:07] *** Trezker has quit IRC[11:34:50] * dru345 beats his head against a wall[11:36:26] <RQ> mmadia: well you don't have to want VLC for it to be available :)[11:36:37] <|PulkoMandy|> kurain: no, the reason is Qt takes space and brings nothing and apps aren't integrated[11:36:42] <RQ> unless there are plans to have Haiku App Store and only verified apps on Haiku :P[11:36:52] <|PulkoMandy|> drag and drop, clipboard, and these stuff will likely create problems[11:36:59] <|PulkoMandy|> no use of attributes, etc[11:37:08] <|PulkoMandy|> if you want qt, why use haiku ?[11:37:41] <RQ> the same question from other side: if you like Haiku, why ignore qt?[11:38:12] <simulacrum> Qt on Haiku IMHO is the future.[11:38:24] <RQ> nobody forces you to use Qt or VLC. And stuff like drag and drop, clipboard etc. is likely to be improved as time passes[11:38:33] <RQ> it works perfectly well on Windows and Linux[11:39:32] <dru345> we want native things to start an ecosystem not become another platform for linux stuff :P[11:40:27] <RQ> Qt on Haiku IMHO is today and probably not so much of the future[11:41:11] <simulacrum> too much reinvention of the wheel[11:41:36] <dru345> we like our wheels square and yellow :P[11:42:00] <RQ> the fact we love native apps doen[11:42:09] <RQ> doesn't mean we have to hate cross-platform ones[11:42:18] <RQ> it's not just black and white after all[11:42:35] <dru345> no one is prevented from porting :P[11:44:17] <kurain> yes, we rufuse big monsters, we want to make our app small but beautiful and meaningfull[11:44:59] <kurain> well, dru345, have you tried django on haiku?[11:45:07] <dru345> no[11:45:20] *** Trezker has joined #haiku[11:46:54] <kurain> oh, under windows , it's not much convinient to work on django[11:48:23] <gordonjcp> ooo[11:48:26] <gordonjcp> django on haiku[11:48:28] <gordonjcp> I've done that[11:48:50] <gordonjcp> you used to have to build Python with sqlite support but other than that it pretty much just plain worked[11:52:12] <kurain> :-D,that is great[11:53:12] <kurain> under windows, the command line seems ugly.[11:54:17] *** lorenzo has joined #haiku[11:55:01] <kurain> but in common linux , I am not using it for production, so it is not necessary.[11:55:54] <|PulkoMandy|> RQ: the idea of Haiku is to have a deeply integrated system, vlc is pretty much the opposite[11:56:10] <|PulkoMandy|> instead of using the media kit, it bundles all the codecs inside itself[11:56:19] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: VLK doesn't *break* Haiku[11:56:39] <RQ> and I guess one of the goals of Haiku is to actually be used[11:56:39] <|PulkoMandy|> that makes it pretty much impossible to plug to other apps in cortex, for example[11:56:59] <|PulkoMandy|> no, it doesn't break the os, but it breaks the experience[11:57:07] <RQ> and quality applications working on Haiku contribute to that goal whether they are native or not[11:57:17] <|PulkoMandy|> using haiku is all about integration between apps[11:57:35] <|PulkoMandy|> being able to select text in a mail and drag it to tracker to save it as a text file[11:57:45] <|PulkoMandy|> using the same people files from mail to imkit[11:57:49] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: I understand that[11:57:53] <RQ> and I love native apps myself[11:58:04] <|PulkoMandy|> so, I'm not opposed to the existence of a vlc port[11:58:08] <RQ> but saying that you don't want to see cross-platform ones is an overstatement IMHO[11:58:18] <|PulkoMandy|> but I don't want it installed[11:58:29] <dru345> soon people will want their emails stuffed away in thunderbird instead of using queries :P[11:58:30] <|PulkoMandy|> and, as we have mediaPlayer, I keep asking, what vlc could bring more ?[11:58:43] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: I'm not asking to install it by default[11:58:50] <RQ> unlike that workspace switcher applet ;P[11:59:11] <|PulkoMandy|> dru345: sadly, that's what some reviewers did say[11:59:27] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: I guess it could bring ability to play more video types on Haiku[11:59:31] <|PulkoMandy|> "hey, there's no gimp? your firefox is still 2.0 and thunderbird even older ?"[11:59:52] <|PulkoMandy|> RQ: porting vlc is likely as much work as porting the codecs themselves to media kit[12:00:00] <|PulkoMandy|> bringing support for them everywhere[12:00:11] *** Ola__ has joined #haiku[12:00:13] <RQ> are you sure?[12:00:19] <|PulkoMandy|> (mediaplayer but also 3Dmov, Web+ video tag in html5)[12:00:27] <|PulkoMandy|> and likely some other places[12:00:41] <RQ> by the way, is anyone working on WebM support?[12:01:00] <|PulkoMandy|> it's just a matter of updating ffmpeg, right ?[12:01:16] <RQ> dunno[12:01:27] <|PulkoMandy|> RQ: the thing is, if vlc is available, people will install it and never use mediaplayer[12:01:33] <|PulkoMandy|> the bugs will never be solved[12:01:47] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: those who want the bugs to be solved, will solve them[12:02:04] <RQ> windows and Linux are available right now, but that doesn't mean Haiku is dead already[12:02:05] <|PulkoMandy|> I'm waiting for bug reports :)[12:02:07] <dru345> isn't mediaplayer and media kit just a front end to ffmpeg?[12:02:21] <|PulkoMandy|> media kit can use other things[12:02:48] <|PulkoMandy|> a bit like the translator api for other formats : we provide libpng and libjpeg backends[12:03:13] <|PulkoMandy|> but one could add whatever new format pops up and get old apps to automatically support it without even a recompile[12:03:50] <|PulkoMandy|> say I want to open some neochrome pictures from my atari st inshowimage, no problem, the translator is on haikuware[12:04:08] <|PulkoMandy|> but noone needs that, so it's not installed by default[12:04:29] <|PulkoMandy|> on linux you either get a viewer that does only png and jpeg, or a viewer that depends on every possible picture reading library[12:05:08] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: that doesn't apply for media players though[12:05:25] <mmadia> SoundPlay functions that way.[12:05:39] <gordonjcp> |PulkoMandy|: old thunderbird is good[12:05:56] <RQ> and newer thunderbird is even better[12:06:01] <gordonjcp> |PulkoMandy|: tb2 == awesome, tb3 == taking fail to strange new places[12:06:07] <|PulkoMandy|> it does in some sense... ffmpeg does a lot of formats, but what if you need another one ? indeo ? bink ?[12:06:27] <|PulkoMandy|> gordonjcp: they don't get remotely near to haiku-s built in mail system anyway[12:06:45] <RQ> lol[12:06:50] <RQ> don't be ridiculous[12:06:50] <gordonjcp> |PulkoMandy|: I've never actually figured out how to use Haiku's mail system[12:07:00] <RQ> I TRIED to use the built-in mail system[12:07:27] <|PulkoMandy|> it's all about queries[12:07:39] <RQ> I think it just crashed, and crashed Haiku later. And even if not for that, I simply can't imagine seeing my mail unthreaded[12:07:52] <RQ> maybe it's just me[12:08:11] <RQ> but thinking that you have the ultimate solution for everything is a bit naive, I think[12:08:21] <RQ> different people have different needs[12:08:25] <gordonjcp> is there a manual for it, somewhere? I couldn't find anything helpful[12:08:37] <|PulkoMandy|> the user guide should have some chapters[12:08:49] <RQ> I have more than 12 thousand emails in my inbox on just one account[12:08:59] <gordonjcp> I couldn't figure out how to get it to display my IMAP mailbox, and gave up[12:09:15] <RQ> gordonjcp: it's in preferences[12:09:22] <|PulkoMandy|> it doesn't display... mails are file and you look at them using tracker[12:09:27] <RQ> Feather -> Preferences -> mail, I think[12:09:34] <|PulkoMandy|> it's e-mail :)[12:09:46] <RQ> yeah, whatev ;)[12:09:52] <RQ> I'm on Linux right now[12:09:54] <gordonjcp> after a couple of hours of reading web pages and manuals I just ssh'ed into my server and ran mut[12:09:56] *** raichoo has quit IRC[12:09:57] <gordonjcp> *mutt[12:10:16] <gordonjcp> |PulkoMandy|: okay, where would I find them with the tracker?[12:10:22] <|PulkoMandy|> RQ: likely threading is the only missing thing, but queries are way more practical once you get used to it[12:10:29] <|PulkoMandy|> gordonjcp: usually home/mail/in[12:10:46] <|PulkoMandy|> or you can just run a query for type=mail and status=new[12:11:02] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: I don't like to be forced to using something[12:11:38] <|PulkoMandy|> you are free to reinstall linux anytime then :)[12:11:56] <RQ> it's still the primary OS on this pc[12:12:25] <|PulkoMandy|> I don't really see why you want haikuif in the end you use thunderbird, vlc and others qt apps[12:12:49] <|PulkoMandy|> what doesit brings you ? is linux_that_ bad their apps run better when half-ported to haiku ?[12:12:55] <RQ> look: I won't install VLC if the built-in player plays[12:13:14] <gordonjcp> okay, so I've got /home/mail/in[12:13:15] <gordonjcp> now what?[12:13:17] <gordonjcp> no mail[12:13:17] <RQ> but if it doesn't, I'd rather install VLC than wait a few months or years for a solution to come[12:13:44] <|PulkoMandy|> you're running an alpha... live with the problems[12:13:45] <RQ> gordonjcp: did you tick the box about automatical mail checking?[12:13:56] <|PulkoMandy|> we won't release R1 without a proper mediaplayer[12:14:04] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: that's coll[12:14:06] <RQ> *col[12:14:08] <RQ> doh[12:14:12] <RQ> *cOOl[12:14:39] <gordonjcp> RQ: no, because I don't want that[12:15:11] <|PulkoMandy|> look at it a bit like you may look at windows : they have mediaplayer, but everyone gets vlc instead. What if WMP was actually as good as vlc ?[12:15:43] <RQ> gordonjcp: well you have to tell it to check email somehow :)[12:15:48] <RQ> maybe enable the tray icon then :)[12:16:03] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: I don't have VLC on my win7[12:16:15] <gordonjcp> RQ: I have no idea where I would do that[12:16:18] <RQ> I have media player classic though[12:16:26] <RQ> gordonjcp: in the same preferences dialog[12:16:56] <gordonjcp> RQ: >[12:17:01] <gordonjcp> bah[12:17:05] <gordonjcp> RQ: where?[12:17:17] <gordonjcp> there is nothing to tell it to pull down existing mail[12:17:23] *** JoeyA has joined #haiku[12:17:36] <RQ> there's nothing WHERE?[12:17:47] <gordonjcp> anywhere, that I can see[12:17:48] <RQ> in the preflet or in the menu of the mail icon in the tray?[12:18:17] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: can you help Gordon? I don't want to reboot right now[12:18:31] <|PulkoMandy|> I'm running windows[12:18:43] <|PulkoMandy|> axel broke my network support :/[12:18:46] <RQ> lol[12:18:51] <gordonjcp> I'm running Linux, with Haiku in qemu at the moment[12:19:04] <gordonjcp> there's nothing in the system tray that looks like a mail icon[12:19:22] <RQ> gordonjcp: you can enable that icon in e-mail preferences[12:19:24] <RQ> that's the point[12:19:28] <gordonjcp> okay[12:19:35] <gordonjcp> there's nothing about it in the preferences either[12:19:48] <RQ> it's not called system tray though :)[12:19:57] <RQ> oh come on[12:20:18] <gordonjcp> well, what the fuck am I looking for?[12:20:21] <gordonjcp> what is it called?[12:20:35] <gordonjcp> there is *no* useful documentation about this[12:20:40] <gordonjcp> look[12:20:44] <RQ> I'm booting my windows PC which has haiku in VirtualBox[12:20:48] <RQ> just a minute[12:20:59] <gordonjcp> here is a real genuine ab-initio user, really genuinely trying out haiku[12:21:02] <gordonjcp> and getting fucking *nowhere*[12:21:10] <gordonjcp> "oh come on" doesn't fucking cut it, understand?[12:21:41] <gordonjcp> jeez, this is worse than trying to get help with Windows stuff[12:21:48] <gordonjcp> and I know at least a little bit about Haiku[12:21:51] <RQ> just wait a minute until I boot Haiku, ok?[12:21:53] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmadia[12:21:56] <mmadia> language.[12:21:59] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o mmadia[12:21:59] <gordonjcp> </frustrated>[12:23:02] <mmadia> gordonjcp : are you looking at the E-mail preflet?[12:23:05] <gordonjcp> I am[12:23:15] <RQ> ok, It's Preferences → E-mail → Settings → Start mail services at startup[12:23:21] <mmadia> do you see the tabs "Account" "Settings" ?[12:23:33] <gordonjcp> ah, right, okay[12:24:06] <RQ> it looks like the serviced add that icon automatically, when started[12:24:08] <gordonjcp> that sounds more like something you'd use for a mail *server* rather than a mail client[12:24:11] <RQ> *services[12:24:35] <gordonjcp> so you've got some weird and confusing terminology going on there[12:24:38] <mmadia> also, did you ever add your account information?[12:24:47] <gordonjcp> yes, I added the account information[12:24:57] <gordonjcp> and spent quite a lot of time trying to work out why not much was happening[12:25:03] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[12:25:31] <RQ> is it happening now?[12:25:34] <gordonjcp> right, that's now pulling down mail[12:25:39] <gordonjcp> now what do I use as a mail client?[12:25:40] <RQ> great[12:25:49] <RQ> see, you actually can get support here[12:26:48] <Lelldorin1> gordonjcp: try beam[12:27:35] <Lelldorin1> gordonjcp:http://haiku-files.org/files/optional-packages/[12:27:52] <mmadia> or installoptionalpackage beam[12:27:58] <gordonjcp> yay for installoptionalpackage[12:28:13] <gordonjcp> hm, no beam[12:28:28] <gordonjcp> not available for gcc4[12:29:12] <RQ> I think I actually tried beam[12:29:49] <gordonjcp> okay, so at least I can actually get mail into haiku now[12:30:00] <gordonjcp> some way of reading it would be good, but I guess I can work on that later[12:30:15] <Lelldorin1> i dont know if it runs: http://haikuware.com/directory/view-details/internet-network/email/thunderbird[12:30:26] <RQ> gordonjcp: just go into mail/in[12:30:40] <RQ> doubleclick the email you want to read[12:30:43] <dru345> yeah the mail is there[12:30:56] <RQ> that's allegedly the cool way of reading email[12:30:58] <RQ> (giggle)[12:31:31] <dru345> if there a mail box icon by the clock? right click it[12:33:05] *** lorenzo has quit IRC[12:33:22] <gordonjcp> RQ: doesn't work[12:33:32] <gordonjcp> RQ: you need to click on each mail to open it[12:33:34] <gordonjcp> and they're not sorted[12:33:46] <RQ> gordonjcp: I said doubleclick ;)[12:34:00] <RQ> you can enable more columns and sort by them[12:34:01] <gordonjcp> yeah[12:34:06] <gordonjcp> think I'll give that a miss, thanks[12:34:13] <gordonjcp> it just plain doesn't work[12:34:13] <RQ> that's what I did[12:34:16] <gordonjcp> no preview window[12:34:20] <gordonjcp> no way to sort mail[12:34:26] <gordonjcp> well, not sensibly anyway[12:34:30] <dru345> gordonjcp - ilsten[12:34:35] <gordonjcp> yay, sort by the date it was created on the filesystem[12:34:35] <gordonjcp> clever[12:34:40] <gordonjcp> so they're *all* today[12:34:49] <dru345> gordonjcp - no, add the mail specific columns[12:35:21] <gordonjcp> I'll play later[12:35:27] <dru345> ok. fine.[12:35:32] <gordonjcp> I still don't see a way to do preview windows[12:35:38] <gordonjcp> and right now I've actually got to get stuff done[12:36:12] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: see?[12:36:17] <dru345> well i'd point you to the mail info on the user guide but i see someone still has to write it :([12:37:34] <|PulkoMandy|> it's not well set up I guess, and also different from thunderbird[12:37:54] <|PulkoMandy|> ever tried using wonderbrush ? it's extremely powerful but also very different from anything else[12:37:55] <dru345> it'll get there.[12:38:07] <|PulkoMandy|> gets time to get used to it, but it's much faster[12:39:21] <gordonjcp> what's wonderbrush?[12:39:41] <dru345> a painting app[12:39:44] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: have you ever read the story of Dvorak's keyboard layout?[12:40:09] <gordonjcp> okay, that's not really going to help as a mail client[12:41:42] *** Trezker has quit IRC[12:42:01] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[12:43:12] *** ali3n0 has joined #haiku[12:43:17] *** dru345-haiku has quit IRC[12:43:25] <Lelldorin1> get help:www.besly.de[12:43:27] <ali3n0> hi folks[12:44:07] <ali3n0> let's say I'd like to dedicate some hardware to an haiku-only box. Is there a way to know best supported peripherals?[12:45:15] <ali3n0> I was intrigued by this : http://www.freelists.org/post/haiku/HaikuBox-Revisited[12:46:18] *** Trezker has joined #haiku[12:52:58] *** lorenzo has joined #haiku[12:58:51] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[13:02:22] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[13:03:21] *** [Jc] has quit IRC[13:03:48] <|PulkoMandy|> ali3n0: haikuware hosts an hardware matrix[13:03:59] *** [Jc] has joined #haiku[13:04:08] <ali3n0> hi |PulkoMandy|[13:04:17][13:04:22] <ali3n0> I'll have a look so[13:06:07] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: then you should know that not always the best thing wins[13:06:34] <|PulkoMandy|> doesn't prevent from trying[13:06:43] <|PulkoMandy|> and I don't force you to anything, you're free to disagree[13:06:53] <|PulkoMandy|> it's just that I will not do the vlc port myself :)[13:07:03] <RQ> sure, I'm just saying I want to see Haiku as a popular OS in the future[13:07:22] <RQ> instead of a perfect, but never used product[13:07:58] *** [Jc] has quit IRC[13:08:14] *** [Jc] has joined #haiku[13:08:48] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[13:09:04] <|PulkoMandy|> Idon't think anything is ever perfect[13:09:14] <|PulkoMandy|> dvorak isn't so much friendly to C programmers[13:09:42] <RQ> well I don't know about C programmers, except that masses don't really do that ;)[13:09:45] <|PulkoMandy|> and yes, Haiku is already tryin to be at the same time a follow-up to beos, an user-friendly system and attract unix geeks[13:09:57] <RQ> but I too think that every computer crashes cause every OS sucks :)[13:10:04] <|PulkoMandy|> they need {}[] right under the fingers :)[13:10:28] <|PulkoMandy|> and use ; a lot more than . and so on[13:12:12] <RQ> sure[13:12:53] <|PulkoMandy|> it's a bit of the same spirit for haiku... it may not be suitable for a lot of particular cases, but you have two choices[13:13:14] <|PulkoMandy|> either you go for some default-setup that target the mean user, whatever that means, and actually suits no one[13:13:48] <|PulkoMandy|> or you throw in options for everything, and it create bugs, complex and slow code, and in the end there are so much options you don't ever find the one you need[13:14:10] * mmadia migrated from Dvorak to Colemak some months ago.[13:14:12] <RQ> right[13:14:51] <|PulkoMandy|> I won't lock you from adding more options, but I prefer bending a little my workflow and use what's available[13:14:54] <RQ> well, I'm just saying that "gets time to get used to it, but it's much faster" does not inspire everybody :)[13:14:59] *** [Jc] has quit IRC[13:15:11] <|PulkoMandy|> well, it should, definitely[13:15:42] <|PulkoMandy|> I hate it when no matter what I do, after years of using the same software I'm stuck doing everything by hand[13:16:07] <|PulkoMandy|> I learnt a bit about vim, and now I'm much more efficient at editiing text[13:16:33] <|PulkoMandy|> same apply for dvorak and friends, when you used qwerty for years, you're not willing to switch[13:16:39] <|PulkoMandy|> but it's worth it if you do[13:17:27] <|PulkoMandy|> for haiku, wherever you come from, there is a learning curve. it's smoother than vim's one, but goes as high[13:17:56] <|PulkoMandy|> there is a lot of small features that makes haiku easy to work with, and as soon as an app fails to use one of them, it really gets in the way[13:18:08] <RQ> hm[13:19:13] <|PulkoMandy|> at the first glance you are tempted to say : ok, this is WIMP all over again, I should figure it out easily[13:19:31] <|PulkoMandy|> but in fact there are a lot of poweruser features you have to learn about[13:19:39] <RQ> what is wimp?[13:19:50] <|PulkoMandy|> windows-icon-menu-pointer[13:19:55] <RQ> oh[13:19:58] <RQ> isn't it?[13:20:09] <|PulkoMandy|> it is[13:20:30] <|PulkoMandy|> but people are too much used to windows 95 or mac -like systems[13:20:39] <|PulkoMandy|> maybe linux copied too much from them[13:21:03] <|PulkoMandy|> Haiku is quite different, and so are Amiga, NeXT and likely some others I don't even know about[13:21:29] <|PulkoMandy|> Haiku is a world of right-click popup menus and drag and drop, whereas windowsis a world of double click to open[13:23:42] <RQ> well maybe[13:24:06] <RQ> but you know, I don't prefer Thunderbird because it stores emails in its own file format[13:24:15] <RQ> I prefer it because it gives me a nice UI[13:24:32] <RQ> with powerfull search in 3.0 and whatever[13:24:51] <RQ> if Beam was like that, I'd go for it just as easily[13:27:05] <gordonjcp> RQ: see, I don't like the search in 3[13:27:08] <gordonjcp> I *much* preferred 2[13:27:19] <RQ> gordonjcp: I rarely use it[13:27:35] <RQ> in most cases, quick filter bar is enough for me[13:28:12] <RQ> I mentioned search as something that I guess is similar to queries |PulkoMandy| talked about[13:28:48] <RQ> anyway, I personally don't read my old e-mail often, so for me a working e-mail app is the one that lets me see my new messages easily, lets me thread them all, and lets me send replies that are standards-compliabt[13:28:52] <RQ> *compliant[13:29:24] <RQ> both Tracker and Beam lose at least in threading[13:29:52] <|PulkoMandy|> threading is missing yes[13:30:03] <|PulkoMandy|> seeing new message is just a query you have to set up[13:30:17] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: well maybe there should be predefined queries[13:30:23] <|PulkoMandy|> there ares[13:30:36] <|PulkoMandy|> you can reach them by right-clicking the mail icon in deskbar if you have it[13:30:38] <RQ> also, maybe Mail/in should show Mail columns by default[13:30:54] <RQ> so that gordonjcp and myself and everyone else wouldn't have to adjust them manually[13:30:54] <|PulkoMandy|> yes, that needs a bug report if it doesn't[13:31:22] <RQ> by the way, is it even possible without any messages in these folders?[13:32:00] <RQ> I right-clicked the header bar in the empty in/, and it seems to only show default columns, but no Mail submenu[13:33:08] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[13:34:00] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: and by the way, having Alt as the default command key doesn't help smoothen that learning curve you mentioned, nor has any advantage from the UX point of view ;)[13:34:34] <RQ> it's just plain legacy that is being carried over for no reason except the developers being used to it[13:35:13] <|PulkoMandy|> it's the default setting for most machines except pc[13:35:40] <RQ> except that PCs make up the most machines[13:35:44] <|PulkoMandy|> and anyway... both are equally wrong, the good place for shortcut key iswhere caps lock is on modern keyboard[13:36:13] *** pailknife has joined #haiku[13:36:25] <|PulkoMandy|> I won't change it anyway, I find it a lot easier to be able to use alt C to copy everywhere and ctrl C in terminal as expected to kill a process[13:36:38] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: I don't know many viable platforms that aren't PC's. That's just Macs basically. And Sun boxes maybe.[13:36:52] <|PulkoMandy|> there are still some amiga running[13:37:00] <RQ> hundreds?[13:37:00] <|PulkoMandy|> and former beos users[13:37:16] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: you do realise that these numbers aren't comparable, don't you[13:37:36] <RQ> and I'm not saying you should change your habits. Just the defaults.[13:37:44] <|PulkoMandy|> they are the userbase we are attracting the most as of now[13:38:00] <|PulkoMandy|> maybe that's just because of the shortcut ;)[13:38:16] <RQ> but they aren't the userbase you are targeting in the long run, are they?[13:38:31] <RQ> then again, they can toggle it as easy as anyone else[13:38:34] <|PulkoMandy|> they are for R1 at least[13:38:43] <|PulkoMandy|> "create a replica of the Be OS"[13:38:50] <|PulkoMandy|> who else would be targetted by this ?[13:39:03] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: what I'm afraid of is that once R1 is released, Haiku will then never change that shortcut to be compatible with itself[13:39:26] <RQ> "Oh, we had it in R1, we can't change it now!"[13:39:33] <mmadia> It is planned to break compatibility post R1.[13:39:37] <|PulkoMandy|> it's pretty much the reverse way[13:39:45] <|PulkoMandy|> everything will break after R1[13:39:47] <mmadia> API & ABI particularly.[13:39:49] <|PulkoMandy|> as Be did between releases[13:40:09] <|PulkoMandy|> they changed the filesystem, the ABI, the compiler, and many other things[13:40:21] <|PulkoMandy|> but it was (most of the time) for the better[13:40:30] <RQ> the command key doesn't fall under API or ABI ;)[13:40:53] <|PulkoMandy|> not like windows, where microsoft tries to inject new features while keeping a whole stack of legacy stuff[13:40:56] <RQ> so you don't have to defend it so much[13:41:06] *** pailknife has quit IRC[13:41:29] <RQ> that's one of the reasons why Microsoft is the dominant platform...[13:41:35] <|PulkoMandy|> I am used to switch between keyboard layouts and shortucts keys anyway[13:41:49] <|PulkoMandy|> yes, that's one of the reasons we are not[13:41:58] *** simulacrum has quit IRC[13:42:09] <RQ> even though I hate their excuses like "We versioned Windows 7 as 6.something in order not to break compatibility with applications requiring 6.something"[13:42:14] <|PulkoMandy|> but, there will be a compatibility system. Noticed we are shipping hybrid builds for years now ?[13:42:25] <RQ> sure[13:42:33] <|PulkoMandy|> this kind of things is stupid. Go fix the apps.[13:42:41] <RQ> I'm still having a tough time in translating that word :)[13:42:57] <dru345> translating hybrid?[13:43:01] <|PulkoMandy|> tat's why we keep putting gcc2 as the default compiler, we know that gcc4 apps WILL break[13:43:17] *** lorenzo_ has joined #haiku[13:43:37] *** lorenzo has quit IRC[13:43:50] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: gcc2 is still the default gcc?[13:43:54] <|PulkoMandy|> yes[13:44:13] <|PulkoMandy|> the day after R1 is out, we flip the switch[13:44:23] *** RQ has left #haiku[13:44:45] <|PulkoMandy|> the gcc2 api will then be frozen and never move again[13:45:05] <|PulkoMandy|> while the gcc4 one will move on and get all the new features[13:45:18] <|PulkoMandy|> but also a ton of changes that will prevent old apps for running and/or compiling[13:45:28] <mmadia> |PulkoMandy| : he parted.[13:45:29] <|PulkoMandy|> so we don't want to have hunderds of gcc4 apps to update[13:45:37] *** RQ has joined #haiku[13:45:43] <RQ> doh[13:45:50] <RQ> I accidently left the channel[13:45:53] <|PulkoMandy|> you don't listen to me ! :)[13:46:02] <RQ> which reminded me of an annoyance in Haiku[13:46:18] <RQ> what were you saying?[13:47:04] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: ?[13:47:36] <RQ> OK, I read it on the logs page[13:47:46] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: wanna know what that annoyance is?[13:49:22] <RQ> or you, mmadia?[13:49:39] <mmadia> no, not really :P[13:49:43] <RQ> doh[13:49:51] <RQ> too bad[13:49:54] <RQ> for Haiku :P[13:50:45] <mmadia> ... just like questions, don't ask to ask. just speak your mind.[13:51:06] <RQ> mmadia: accident right clicking selects a random menu item[13:51:43] <RQ> because when you right click, the menu appears behind the cursor and the menu item that is exactly behind it is being selected[13:52:16] <RQ> and I'm prone to accident right clicks[13:56:05] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[13:56:58] <|PulkoMandy|> that's because the app misplaced the menuitems :p[13:57:07] <|PulkoMandy|> the first one should be "do nothing"[13:57:53] <|PulkoMandy|> actually... some apps doesn't have thisbug[13:58:04] <|PulkoMandy|> it was fixed in web+ for exampel[14:00:45] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: I think perhaps a problem is that if I release my right click on the menu item, it activates that item[14:01:04] *** Shisui has quit IRC[14:01:07] <RQ> hm... though it's the same in Linux...[14:01:33] <mmu_screen> hi voidref !![14:02:41] <mmu_screen> voidref: I heard some people had it booting on intel Macs, didn't try yet though[14:06:08] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: apparently, that problem is not present in Tracker iether[14:11:54] *** JoeyA has quit IRC[14:13:54] *** Shisui has joined #haiku[14:20:55] *** RQ is now known as RQ_afk[14:22:49] *** RQ_afk has quit IRC[14:23:28] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[14:34:37] <mmadia> is there a command line too for adding an HVIF to a file?[14:35:19] <|PulkoMandy|> it's just an attribute, no ?[14:36:03] <mmadia> as .rdef or HVIF though?[14:40:52] <dru345> 'night all[14:42:34] *** vooshy has quit IRC[14:42:45] <mmadia> hmmm. i think it's deeper than just an attribute.[14:42:59] *** dru345 is now known as away345[14:43:51] <mmadia> if i `rmattr "BEOS:ICON" ProgramName` , it does set it to the default app icon, but when opening Program with the FileTypes add-on, the icon is still visible.[14:47:44] <away345> oh before I forget - http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/TheInterfaceKit_Functions.html#tint_color[14:47:50] <away345> click the link @ "here"[14:48:09] <away345> it takes you back to the same #tint_color[14:48:29] <away345> not the constants defined by Interface Kit...[14:51:55] <ali3n0> mmadia, what are the benefits switching to colemark?[14:54:52] *** away345 has quit IRC[15:00:10] <mmadia> it's supposed to be a balance between qwerty and dvorak.[15:02:33] <Ola__> Hmm[15:02:38] * Ola__ waves[15:05:50] <mmu_screen> so it's as slow as qwerty, and as unusable as dvorak ?[15:07:50] <mmadia> it's more usable... zxcvb and some other keys are in the same position. it also tries to be balanced as far as using the left and right hands[15:08:11] <mmadia> ... like dvorak is very right hand heavy.[15:11:30] <mmadia> one day, i may try Programmer Dvorak : http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/ ;)[15:12:40] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[15:12:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[15:31:54] *** Tronix has joined #haiku[15:32:27] *** kmargar has joined #haiku[15:34:23] *** Tronix has quit IRC[15:34:42] *** markos_ has quit IRC[15:39:01] *** [Jc] has joined #haiku[15:40:13] *** PacoLinux has joined #haiku[15:41:01] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[15:43:04] <Ola__> Hmm[15:43:14] <Ola__> what about Haiku on POWER?[15:51:36] <Ingenu> no idea[15:51:52] <Ingenu> I'd say it shouldn't be a core team focus anyway[15:51:59] <Ingenu> people use x86 & x86-64[15:53:04] <HeTo-_-> and ARM[15:54:57] *** Shuren has joined #haiku[15:56:24] <Ingenu> I'd be more interested in x86-64 Haiku that anything else[15:56:35] <HeTo-_-> I wonder how hackable some of those Android phones are, are the hardware specs available to write drivers for different OSes[15:56:49] <Ingenu> no clue[15:58:34] <Ola__> actualluy people should switch ti ppc :D[15:58:37] *** l_n has joined #haiku[15:58:37] *** l_n has joined #haiku[15:58:39] <Ola__> anyway, I am installing A2.[15:59:21] <l_n> A2 is now old and crusty[15:59:32] <Ola__> :P[16:00:22] <HeTo-_-> Ola__: what processor do you recommend? Freescale is moving to ARM nowadays, too[16:00:32] <Ola__> cell ;][16:00:43] <Ola__> ok, now lol[16:00:58] <Ola__> after installation of a2 - DISK BOOT FAILIURE[16:01:55] <HeTo-_-> and if you happen to want at least one of general-purpose performance or low power consumption? :-P[16:02:32] * Ola__ -.-s[16:03:28] <mmu_screen> the ppc port is still not finished, but you can send patches ;)[16:03:52] <Ola__> Now I mean disk boot failiure.[16:05:42] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[16:05:57] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[16:05:57] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[16:12:12] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[16:13:49] *** viller has joined #haiku[16:22:41] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[16:29:06] *** viller has quit IRC[16:40:42] *** kmargar is now known as markos_[16:49:56] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[16:53:40] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[16:58:11] *** Trezker has quit IRC[16:58:12] *** raichoo has quit IRC[16:58:46] *** Trezker has joined #haiku[17:01:57] *** Hubert_ has left #haiku[17:02:26] *** Terradrom has joined #haiku[17:03:31] <Terradrom> Ola_: what about Haiku on ALPHA 21xxx?[17:03:35] <Terradrom> buhahaha[17:05:00] <Terradrom> ehhhhhhhhhh biglol with Ola_[17:05:04] *** Terradrom has left #haiku[17:05:16] * Ola__ o_O[17:07:21] <mmu_man> why not ?[17:07:27] <mmu_man> now that it's getting 64bit safe..[17:07:34] <mmu_man> just need to get someone give us an alpha :p[17:07:43] <Ola__> I have never told that I am against it :P[17:07:54] <Ola__> but if we would ttilise Alpha, why not m68k or z-80?:D[17:14:21] *** bubsy has quit IRC[17:16:33] <mmu_screen> actually I did start an m68k port[17:17:12] <mmu_screen> http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/system/boot/platform/atari_m68k[17:18:13] <Ola__> Atari...[17:18:13] *** bubsy has joined #haiku[17:29:01] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[17:30:38] <CIA-53> zooey * r37825 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/shared/AutoDeleter.h: * added operator-> for convenience[17:34:39] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[17:34:54] <|PulkoMandy|> the z80 doesn(t have an mmu, so no port[17:35:05] <|PulkoMandy|> but ez80 or some other modern incarnation could work[17:36:16] *** adriano-src has joined #haiku[17:38:06] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[17:39:17] <mmu_man> hmm IIRC there are some 32bit things from zilog with mmu[17:39:46] <mmu_man> z80000[17:39:57] *** Qeos has joined #haiku[17:40:03] <mmu_screen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_Z80000[17:43:48] *** Qeos|2 has quit IRC[17:51:45] *** slimindie has joined #haiku[17:52:23] *** slimindie has quit IRC[18:00:47] *** humdinger has quit IRC[18:02:42] *** _gringo has joined #haiku[18:06:00] *** slimindie has joined #haiku[18:08:02] <slimindie> Hi all, anybody know if there's any active work being done on the PPC version of Haiku?[18:08:19] <mmadia> the PPC port is dead in the water for now.[18:09:08] <mmadia> ... it needs a pre-built package of ICU in order to build.[18:09:17] <slimindie> mmadia: That's a shame. Lack of interest I'm guessing?[18:09:56] <mmadia> andreasf and some others works on it from time to time, but by large the focus is on x86[18:11:00] <slimindie> mmadia: Thanks for the heads up. I was hoping to use it on my old iBook, oh well.[18:11:01] *** bubsy has quit IRC[18:16:45] *** slimindie has quit IRC[18:19:13] <mmu_man> well the ppc boot iso still builds at least[18:26:37] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[18:30:05] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[18:30:52] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[18:36:25] <kurain> bye all[18:36:33] <kurain> time to sleep now[18:42:31] *** kurain has quit IRC[18:46:21] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[18:46:45] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[18:47:40] *** marc_smith has joined #haiku[18:53:51] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[18:58:13] <Anarchos> anybody gets trouble with Debugger ?[19:01:50] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[19:01:54] *** xray7224 has quit IRC[19:04:19] *** Sir_Konrad has quit IRC[19:04:42] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[19:05:12] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[19:06:41] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[19:10:57] <CIA-53> anevilyak * r540 /webkit/trunk/WebKit/haiku/WebCoreSupport/FrameLoaderClientHaiku.cpp: Fix typo.[19:11:50] *** Leon9 has joined #haiku[19:12:36] *** bubsy has joined #haiku[19:12:49] <CIA-53> anevilyak * r541 /webkit/trunk/WebKit/haiku/WebPositive/BrowserWindow.cpp: Apply patch by Matt Madia: Add the escape key as a shortcut to stop page loads. Closes ticket #6409.[19:16:46] *** yourpalal has joined #haiku[19:19:20] *** |PulkoMandy| has quit IRC[19:20:59] <idefix_xifedi> mmadia: I guess you didn't meant to create a new ticket?[19:21:34] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[19:21:40] <mmadia> no i did ... i just didn't see your reply before hand :|[19:22:07] <mmadia> i'll close #6411 too...[19:22:24] <idefix_xifedi> yeah, just saw you closing it.. :)[19:22:28] <mmadia> seems i was confusing the icon attr with a program's resource file.[19:22:31] <Anarchos> who uses Debugger ?[19:22:57] <mmadia> Anarchos : it's best to ask on [haiku], as Ingo made it.[19:23:40] <Anarchos> you mean the mailing list ,[19:24:12] <idefix_xifedi> well, it took me a couple of tries before I got the "'VICN'" bit right[19:24:53] <mmadia> yeah, embedding the quote never crossed my mind[19:25:06] <idefix_xifedi> you could also use \'VICN\', but personally I find "'VICN'" cleaner...[19:25:37] <Anarchos> idefix_xifedi but less readable ...[19:26:01] <idefix_xifedi> yup, that's the tradeoff...[19:27:09] <Anarchos> what is a VICN bit ?[19:27:34] <mmadia> vector icon aka HVIF[19:29:51] *** oco2 has joined #haiku[19:30:55] *** bubsy has quit IRC[19:31:15] *** idefix_xifedi has quit IRC[19:33:30] *** |PulkoMandy| has joined #haiku[19:33:30] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[19:33:41] *** idefix_xifedi has joined #haiku[19:33:51] *** |PulkoMandy| has quit IRC[19:34:09] *** |PulkoMandy| has joined #haiku[19:37:53] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[19:40:46] *** Xbertl has joined #haiku[19:44:03] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[19:45:15] *** Trezker has quit IRC[19:47:36] *** Trezker has joined #haiku[19:55:41] *** The123king has joined #haiku[19:55:41] *** The123king has joined #haiku[19:56:39] *** bubsy has joined #haiku[20:05:17] *** acous has quit IRC[20:05:32] *** StreaK|ON has joined #haiku[20:05:40] <StreaK|ON> hi all[20:10:09] <gordonjcp> hello[20:15:14] <CIA-53> anevilyak * r37826 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/OptionalPackages: Update Web+ to r541.[20:20:14] *** raichoo has quit IRC[20:22:41] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[20:23:57] *** x-pilot has joined #haiku[20:25:05] <CIA-53> anevilyak * r37827 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/debug/profile/SharedImage.cpp: Don't free the symbol iterator on error here since the callers already do so, leading to a double free in such a case. Fixes CID 2008.[20:25:38] *** Xbertl has quit IRC[20:27:52] *** RQ has joined #haiku[20:31:09] *** marc_smith has quit IRC[20:31:21] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[20:31:51] *** oco2 has quit IRC[20:32:11] <brobostigon> evening all.[20:33:23] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[20:33:31] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[20:33:31] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[20:35:37] <CIA-53> anevilyak * r37828 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/tracker/FavoritesMenu.cpp: NewModelItem can potentially return NULL in a number of cases, which wasn't checked for. Don't try to add them or otherwise manipulate them in such a case. Fixes CID 641.[20:35:43] *** oco2 has joined #haiku[20:37:35] <CIA-53> humdinger * r37829 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/text_search/ (GrepWindow.cpp Model.h): Changed some menu strings and the shortcut to copy the selected text to the clipboard from B to C. Fixes #6404 and #6406.[20:39:17] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: i'd like to persuade you into having the same directory structure for translations in bin/ as in other folders[20:40:28] <|PulkoMandy|> the structure in the other folders just match the structure of the src/ counterpart[20:40:54] <|PulkoMandy|> that's why we have to cheat in bin to add folders in the catalogs whereas there are none on the source side[20:41:30] <RQ> hm[20:42:08] <RQ> I don't quite get what you said, will look at sources now :)[20:42:38] *** lorenzo_ has quit IRC[20:42:48] <RQ> oh I see[20:43:13] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: so basically applications that consist of one file are not stored in folders?..[20:43:20] <RQ> in src/[20:44:43] <|PulkoMandy|> yes, in bin/ we did that[20:44:52] <|PulkoMandy|> in all other places each app has its own folder[20:45:13] *** adregorochapimen has joined #haiku[20:45:30] <RQ> are there any chances to undo that in bin/ ?...[20:45:41] *** adregorochapimen has left #haiku[20:47:56] *** xray7224 has joined #haiku[20:49:43] <Disreali> haha.... Best product ever http://www.tshirtbordello.com/Zombie-Outbreak-Barricade-Tape[20:53:31] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[20:58:52] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[21:01:29] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[21:01:33] *** StreaK|ON has quit IRC[21:02:47] *** HeTo-_- is now known as HeTo[21:14:02] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[21:19:12] <|PulkoMandy|> RQ: it would be way too much folders in src/ but in the catalogs I'll have to sort it out[21:19:51] <RQ> so you mean it should be possible for translations, right?[21:20:55] <|PulkoMandy|> yes[21:21:15] <|PulkoMandy|> I'm just waiting for axel to fix the network stuff so I can get back to work[21:22:41] <RQ> |PulkoMandy|: it would be great[21:22:49] <RQ> I could avoid resorting to symlinks then :)[21:23:19] <|PulkoMandy|> yes[21:25:16] <RQ> please do that when you get your network back :)[21:25:21] <RQ> i'll be AFK next week[21:25:41] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[21:31:05] *** Sir_Konrad has quit IRC[21:31:11] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[21:31:14] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[21:33:02] <RQ> so I won't be able to nag you about it, but I hope you can live without it :)[21:34:05] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[21:35:37] *** saivert has quit IRC[21:37:04] *** oxoocoffee has joined #haiku[21:38:43] *** oco2 has quit IRC[21:39:54] *** yourpalal has quit IRC[21:42:02] <mmu_screen> Shisui: btw, are the sources of the Services Kit around ?[21:42:16] <mmu_screen> the project on osdrawer doesn't seem to have much more than Jamfiles[21:42:22] <mmu_screen> I have a potential client[21:42:59] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[21:42:59] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[21:43:46] *** saivert has joined #haiku[21:46:49] *** kjalarr has quit IRC[21:47:32] *** idefix_xifedi has left #haiku[21:47:54] *** eiggen has joined #haiku[21:48:08] *** eiggen has left #haiku[21:48:42] <Disreali> is there a specific place/site that the Project expects GCOS students to use as a repo for GCOS code?[21:49:31] *** lorenzo has joined #haiku[21:49:57] <mmu_man> GCOS ?[21:50:02] <mmu_man> GSoC you mean ?[21:50:06] <DraX_> google code of summer![21:50:53] *** slimindie has joined #haiku[21:50:56] <jmayfield_> code of sumer? you mean hammurabi[21:51:16] *** slimindie has quit IRC[21:51:18] * jmayfield_ gets all history nerd[21:56:10] <Duggan> jmayfield_ lol[21:56:24] <Duggan> hey Disreali, mmu_man, DraX_, jmayfield_[21:56:51] <jmayfield_> i havent thought about hammurabi and/or his code in a long time[21:57:32] <jmayfield_> now thing slike cuneiform and ziggurat are going though my head[21:58:09] *** eiggen has joined #haiku[21:58:28] <jmayfield_> i remember there in the late 80s/early 90's there was this hairdo going around.. basically a permed mullet.. i always called it babylonian hair[22:02:10] *** saivert has quit IRC[22:02:40] <l_n> what was the name of that new type of screen that's supposed to be better than current LCD's?[22:02:59] <gordonjcp> oled?[22:05:13] <l_n> hrm.. don't remember.. i just remember some people here were excited and waiting for the 10" kits to become available.[22:05:49] *** ali3n0 has quit IRC[22:06:04] <Duggan> hey l_n[22:06:48] <l_n> guten tag.[22:07:09] <voidref> guten tag[22:08:21] <Duggan> guten tag mein freund, was ist loß?[22:08:26] <brobostigon> moin.[22:08:28] <Duggan> I think I got it right this time...[22:08:30] <Duggan> hey brobostigon[22:08:44] <brobostigon> abend Duggan[22:09:04] *** saivert has joined #haiku[22:09:32] <jmayfield_> its easier to just say wie gehts or tschuß..[22:09:37] <jmayfield_> heh[22:09:44] <Duggan> tschuß?[22:09:48] <l_n> tschuß = see ya[22:09:53] <brobostigon> bye,*[22:09:53] <Duggan> ah[22:09:57] <l_n> or some other informal 'good bye'[22:10:30] <Duggan> hmm[22:10:37] <Duggan> I never remember wie gehts though :P[22:10:40] <Duggan> lol I don't know why[22:10:44] <Duggan> it just never comes to mind[22:11:20] <jmayfield_> all the wordiness makes you sound like a german language student[22:11:22] <jmayfield_> heh[22:11:41] <brobostigon> tschuss is very informal, very.[22:12:20] <jmayfield_> all the better[22:13:08] <brobostigon> well, kinda, or, schlaf gut, but that is weird.[22:13:08] <jmayfield_> isnt it also mostly a south germany/austria thing? or is that some other informal/slang i leanred...[22:13:52] <brobostigon> i say that in english. "good night, sleep well."[22:13:55] <jmayfield_> regional slang is fun[22:14:15] <brobostigon> try it in platt duutsch.[22:15:41] <l_n> Duggan: 'wie gehts' is so much easier than trying to keep sorted the formal/informal stuff. ;)[22:15:52] <l_n> since english abandoned it many years ago.[22:16:21] <l_n> (and from what i've heard from some german speakers, the distinction between formal/informal in german is becoming more and more blurred.)[22:16:44] <brobostigon> almost like, "shwmae" in welsh, its a combination of "greetings" and "how are you?"[22:17:27] <l_n> brobostigon: was ist?[22:17:40] *** PasNox has joined #haiku[22:17:48] <brobostigon> l_n: wie gehts manchemal,[22:18:07] <l_n> ah, ja.[22:18:31] <l_n> the lit. trans. is odd in english.[22:18:48] <brobostigon> agreed.[22:19:39] <l_n> i still get 'nach', 'noch', 'schon', and 'schön' mixed up. the subtle differences in pronunciation are sometimes hard to pick up on.[22:19:52] <jmayfield_> i remember something saying 'prost' a lot.. then being really drunk[22:20:38] <brobostigon> iechyd dda, (welsh), for cheers, prost.[22:20:45] <brobostigon> same.[22:21:16] <brobostigon> although, iechy dda, translated is, good health, but it has the same meaning.[22:21:23] <brobostigon> iechyd dda*[22:21:39] <jmayfield_> like gesundheit[22:22:00] <l_n> how are the strings of consonants pronounced in welsh? i can't even figure out what those words are supposed to sound like[22:22:03] <brobostigon> no,gesundheit, you say when someone sneezes.[22:22:20] <brobostigon> l_n: think about klingon,[22:22:34] <brobostigon> l_n: and the welsh will shot me for saying that.[22:22:41] <jmayfield_> brobostigon, yes, but it means good health/healthness.etc[22:22:55] <brobostigon> jmayfield_: yes,[22:23:29] <brobostigon> jmayfield_: depends on the context it is said in, to the meaning.[22:23:33] <jmayfield_> brobostigon, which made my laugh thinking about saying gesundheit when youre about to drink[22:24:01] <l_n> ich brauche mehr Deutsch zu lernen, aber ich habe kein leute zu mitsprechen[22:24:15] <brobostigon> jmayfield_: i always said prost, gesundheit isnt the right time, when you are going to have a drink.[22:24:27] *** marc_smith has joined #haiku[22:24:28] *** vooshy has joined #haiku[22:24:31] <jmayfield_> brobostigon, right.. which is why its funny[22:24:50] <marc_smith> hello folks[22:24:51] <brobostigon> ich muss mehr deutsch lernen, aber habe keiner mir mit zu lernen*[22:25:02] <l_n> brobostigon: danke[22:25:16] <jmayfield_> nine donkeys[22:25:32] <brobostigon> l_n: :)[22:25:45] <marc_smith> d'oh! german[22:26:11] <marc_smith> limited ability to understand, no ability to write[22:26:37] <jmayfield_> my kids want 3 donkeys.. one named Xote, one named Kong, and one named Shane[22:26:51] <JonathanThompson> You have strange kids, jmayfield_ :p[22:27:12] <brobostigon> i learnt platt duutsch, as my spoken german, and then normal german, as written, never learnt platt duutsch as a written language.[22:27:14] <marc_smith> were they raised on a farm?[22:27:15] <jmayfield_> for sure[22:28:00] <jmayfield_> not on a farm, but near them.. and want their own.. as do i[22:28:19] <marc_smith> I'm getting quite irritated when people - which are the animals too - want to *have* other animals.[22:28:31] <jmayfield_> uh[22:28:33] <l_n> brobostigon: any suggestions for improving my german abilities? (other than attempting to read 'die zeit' or other such publications)[22:28:41] <marc_smith> but that's quite philosophical I guess[22:29:00] <l_n> or was that die weld?[22:29:03] <brobostigon> l_n: live or work there for abit, you only really learn a language being there,[22:29:05] <jmayfield_> sounds like confusion to me[22:29:16] <brobostigon> welt*[22:29:28] <brobostigon> and, die zeit*[22:29:36] <brobostigon> i think.[22:29:40] <brobostigon> mybe.[22:29:52] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[22:30:07] <l_n> i can't remember the name of the paper?[22:30:14] <marc_smith> I always liked the way german nazis talked on the videos from the meetings, etc. So harsh, yet so nice![22:30:14] <l_n> s/?/./[22:30:16] <brobostigon> die welt*[22:30:25] <Auronandace> in welsh dd is pronounced a lot like th[22:30:39] <jmayfield_> marc_smith, i *have* kids.. doesnt mean i own them in any negative sense, just that i take care of and provide for them[22:30:46] <brobostigon> brb.[22:31:02] <marc_smith> I didn't put emphasis on *have* , but on the fact that we are the animals too[22:31:06] <Auronandace> also in welsh ff is like f, and a single f is like a v[22:31:12] <marc_smith> and that implicates a whole bunch of things[22:31:15] <marc_smith> ;)[22:31:19] <jmayfield_> marc_smith, so are my kids[22:31:42] <jmayfield_> it doesnt imply anything, unless you get hung up on words[22:31:48] <marc_smith> yes they are, but they were born because of your - well - sexual activity, unlike your dog, cat, horse[22:31:59] <jmayfield_> so[22:32:28] <jmayfield_> i take care of my animals.. i feed them and such, and i seem to rather appreciate it[22:32:40] <marc_smith> it's not about *having* children anyway, it's about an animal *having* other animal in way of possesion[22:32:44] <marc_smith> limiting freedom[22:32:47] <marc_smith> etc[22:32:50] <l_n> yay. arguing semantics is so much fun.[22:33:01] <jmayfield_> no shit[22:33:03] <jmayfield_> heh[22:33:05] *** Sir_Konrad has quit IRC[22:33:41] <marc_smith> it's hard to explain when you get used to the fact that you are here to have other things, to poess them[22:33:46] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[22:34:18] *** The123king has quit IRC[22:34:36] <marc_smith> and when you get used to the fact, that human beings are superior to other beings, which is actually not a truth[22:34:52] <jmayfield_> uh[22:35:24] <Auronandace> depends on your definition of superior[22:35:25] <marc_smith> oh, whatever, I suppose I shouldn't talk about it here anyway ;)[22:35:34] <jmayfield_> what youre doing is interesting as a poetic fiddling with words and meanings..[22:35:47] <jmayfield_> but its jst that[22:36:19] <marc_smith> well, can't agree with that. It has a meaning and it means something, it's just that it's not technical at all[22:36:36] <jmayfield_> technical -> real[22:36:37] <marc_smith> so this must be one of the worst places to get a conversation like this into ;)[22:36:41] *** oxoocoffee has quit IRC[22:36:56] *** Sir_Konrad has quit IRC[22:37:05] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[22:37:26] <jmayfield_> its like when people get hung up on the 'men' part of 'women'. f'ing ridiculous[22:37:40] <jmayfield_> "but men implies blah blah blah".. bullshit[22:38:08] <marc_smith> ok, let me put it this way: technical mind sohuld not be bothered with these kind of things, so I won't elaborate on that[22:38:40] <jmayfield_> i sm not speaking technically, i am speaking philosophically[22:38:42] <marc_smith> I just responded to one of the things that appeared in discussion[22:38:43] <jmayfield_> heh[22:39:22] <jmayfield_> word flow from reality, not the other way around[22:39:40] <marc_smith> it all dependes of the point of view, really[22:39:47] <marc_smith> depends[22:40:17] <marc_smith> there were a lot of philosophical turns that prove otherwise[22:40:36] <jmayfield_> prove sounds awfully technical...[22:41:02] <marc_smith> prove to some extent, of course ;)[22:41:20] <Auronandace> perhaps you mean suggest[22:41:59] <marc_smith> but stio! sorry for interrupting technical discussion. This is not a good place ;)[22:42:53] <jmayfield_> maybe youre confusing the word "have" in the context of having a pet, with "pwn"[22:43:02] <jmayfield_> hehe[22:43:29] <jmayfield_> oh, and hi JonathanThompson[22:43:57] <marc_smith> now, may I suggest a simple turn in discussion, Haiku is a lot more interresting for most of us, Haiku users ;0[22:44:14] <JonathanThompson> Hi jmayfield_ :p[22:44:47] <Auronandace> i wonder if there should be an haiku-offtopic channel[22:45:03] <marc_smith> yeah, I'd drop in there immediately, hehe[22:45:10] <marc_smith> point me to /dev/null[22:45:16] <marc_smith> ;)[22:45:50] <Duggan> I tried to catch up but there was too much :P[22:46:25] <l_n> anyone wanna play doom? :)[22:47:35] <Duggan> Auronandace I think this is the off-topic channel :)[22:48:20] <marc_smith> 'haiku' is an ancient, japanese word for 'chaos'[22:48:53] <marc_smith> don't get confused with its other meaning, which is a light, short poem![22:48:56] <marc_smith> ;)[22:49:15] <l_n> i really need to login to some message boards more often.. i just realized that i have a priv. msg. on asatrulore.org...[22:49:18] <Auronandace> it's the official channel, but some of the talk gets very offtopic - hence the suggestion of a seperate channel[22:49:53] <l_n> yeah, but if we all moved to an OT chan, nobody would talk here anymore.[22:49:54] <l_n> :P[22:50:21] <marc_smith> naah, what about the mesage bots?[22:50:32] <Auronandace> i think it could be a good thing, it shows the community is growing[22:50:39] <vooshy> Auronandace: you need to use your influence to change the topic[22:51:18] <Duggan> Auronandace this channel has always been notorious for being off topic, its more or less for enthusiasts to talk about whatever[22:51:26] <l_n> hrm. spambot sent me a msg on asatrulore.org. how irritating.[22:51:27] <Duggan> if you want to talk about haiku development there's #haiku-dev[22:51:44] <Duggan> if you want to talk about developing 3rd party apps for haiku, theres the new #haiku-3rdparty[22:52:14] <|PulkoMandy|> we tried to create an #haiku-community channel for off topic things but it didn't go that well[22:52:15] <marc_smith> should I feel offended for being an enthusiast, not a developer? ;)[22:52:39] *** Sir_Konrad has quit IRC[22:52:40] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[22:53:04] *** Sir_Konrad_ has joined #haiku[22:53:16] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[22:53:18] <l_n> marc_smith: nah. testing/daily usage is an important part of the devel. process.. users help find the edge/corner cases the devs never thought of that break haiku[22:54:57] <marc_smith> hmm, sounds reasonable. I think I'll puyt Haiku on my hdd again, it had to go away in favor of NetBSD, but NetBSD wasn't particularly happy with its 2 G of HDD space[22:55:03] <marc_smith> while Haiku is[22:55:20] * l_n has given haiku an 8[22:55:27] <l_n> 8G space with 32G storage[22:55:30] <marc_smith> quite a lot of space[22:55:33] <l_n> stupid enter key[22:55:40] <l_n> it's the only OS on my eee 1000[22:55:49] <|PulkoMandy|> marc_smith: don't worry, developpers moved to another secret channel :D[22:55:59] <marc_smith> heheh[22:56:22] <marc_smith> "haiku-secret-base'[22:56:44] <marc_smith> you can run, but you can't hide![22:57:06] <marc_smith> we can spot you everywhere, our name is Borg, resistence is futile![22:57:51] <OmniMancer> We are pentium of borg, arithmetic is irrelevent, division is futile, you will be approximated[22:57:53] <marc_smith> now, seriously, can you really fill up that much of space? Haiku uses roughly 1G of space[22:58:32] <Auronandace> he could be developing on haiku[22:58:50] <marc_smith> aaah, true. Silly me, that's the cost you have to pay if you are not a developer[22:58:56] <marc_smith> no imagination or whatsoever[22:59:20] <marc_smith> I can't operate on numbers, d'oh![22:59:51] <l_n> currently i'm attempting to finish darkwyrm's lessons[23:00:02] <l_n> i need to d/l the code for lesson 15[23:00:04] <marc_smith> I think I have some sort of mathematical blindness anyway[23:00:32] <Auronandace> i've never been good at maths[23:00:59] <|PulkoMandy|> I run haiku as my main os[23:01:05] *** Sir_Konrad has quit IRC[23:01:06] <marc_smith> I like the sentence of OBSD team: "shut up and hack!" well, I can certainly do first thing, but wish I could code[23:01:06] *** Sir_Konrad_ is now known as Sir_Konrad[23:01:09] <|PulkoMandy|> with all the mail and music files it ends up taking some space[23:01:36] <Auronandace> mail? why not use webmail?[23:01:48] <marc_smith> yeah, I was about to ask the same question[23:02:09] <|PulkoMandy|> because I need like downloading all the mails then reading it offline when I travel by train or so[23:02:18] <l_n> wow. there is a discussion about Loki on asatrulore.org that was started in 2004...[23:02:42] <marc_smith> some thread never die, just like Elvis[23:02:47] <|PulkoMandy|> if I was to use webapps for everything I'd use ChromeOS, not Haiku ;)[23:03:12] <marc_smith> ChromeOS! nevah! high security threat ratio[23:03:22] <l_n> is chrome actually worth a damn or is it a bunch of crap?[23:03:31] <|PulkoMandy|> no idea :)[23:03:33] <Auronandace> i didn't mean to suggest everything, i don't like the whole cloud concept myself[23:03:49] <marc_smith> same here[23:03:52] <jmayfield_> god forbid somebody see my high scores on minesweeper or read an email my mom sent me![23:04:02] <marc_smith> it seems odd to put all of your data up somewhere[23:04:15] *** Sir_Konr- has joined #haiku[23:04:23] <marc_smith> with emphasis on *somewhere*[23:04:25] <|PulkoMandy|> I use a lot of online backups... but they land on my own homeserver[23:04:39] <marc_smith> are you encrypting it, |PulkoMandy| ?[23:04:48] *** taibo has joined #haiku[23:05:04] <|PulkoMandy|> it travels in ssl over the internet[23:05:08] <Anarchos> Is it the good way to do this : in a derived-BWindow QuitRequested() calls be_app->PostMessage(B_QUIT_REQUESTED) and then call BWindow::QuitRequested() ?[23:05:13] <|PulkoMandy|> not that I have much to hide anyway... :)[23:05:33] <l_n> is it just me or does Sir_Konr- part/join far too often?[23:05:41] <marc_smith> you know, it's not about hiding stuff, it's about not allowing anyone to breach your security and steal your private data[23:05:47] <|PulkoMandy|> Anarchos: I don't think you need to send the message at this point... but I may be wrong[23:06:11] <Anarchos> it is the code from BasicButton in beos sample code, i hope i have not modify it[23:06:16] <|PulkoMandy|> well... I doubt stealing mails sent to public mailing lists would bring you much[23:06:28] <|PulkoMandy|> Anarchos: ok, so it should make sense[23:06:38] <marc_smith> maybe not that kind of correspondence, but you probobly do online banking and stuff ;)[23:06:57] <marc_smith> your logins, passwords[23:07:11] <|PulkoMandy|> yes, I keep them safe whenever possible[23:08:05] <marc_smith> it's much to be taken away from everyone, really. We all know it's not about making a bad jokes to anyone anymore, nobody won't erase your HDD, they will likely sniff around and take your identity away from you[23:08:09] <marc_smith> to use somewhere else[23:08:33] <marc_smith> and that must be a bad hit[23:08:37] <marc_smith> to everyone[23:08:59] <marc_smith> well, at least I wouldn not like to fall a victim of such thing[23:09:22] <marc_smith> but some people - probobly - just don't care anyway[23:12:21] * marc_smith turns the paranoid mode *off*[23:15:05] *** Sir_Konr- has quit IRC[23:15:47] <|PulkoMandy|> my gmail password got stolen in some way[23:16:04] <|PulkoMandy|> and someone sent a spam mail to my whole contact list[23:16:06] *** Sir_Konr- has joined #haiku[23:16:12] <|PulkoMandy|> that's not fun[23:16:15] <Anarchos> Is there a BMessenger targeting be_app ?[23:16:15] <marc_smith> doesn't sound good[23:16:43] <cpr420> Anarchos: be_app_messenger or just create a new one[23:17:10] <Anarchos> cpr420 ok thanks[23:17:52] *** taibo has quit IRC[23:19:01] *** OmniMancer has quit IRC[23:19:11] *** Sir_Konr- has quit IRC[23:20:33] *** lorenzo has quit IRC[23:21:42] <Anarchos> cpr420 the bebook says it is safer to use a messenger than to use PostMessage[23:21:59] <cpr420> that's no longer accurate in Haiku[23:23:33] <Anarchos> cpr420 my Be API/Ocaml interfacing experiences bugs whith this bit of code[23:24:52] <Anarchos> cpr420 i will to try to introduce a wait() between be_app->PostMessage and BWindow::QuitRequested[23:25:08] <Anarchos> to let the app deals with the B_QUIT_REQUESTED command[23:27:31] *** pythium has joined #haiku[23:27:34] <pythium> narf![23:27:42] * pythium slaps Teknomancer and marshan :P[23:29:38] <Anarchos> cpr420 what do you think about that ?[23:30:14] <cpr420> it's hard to say without seeing what you're trying to do, in general that shouldn't be needed[23:32:13] <Anarchos> in general yes but in that case i introduced extra delay because of ocaml code[23:32:31] <Anarchos> so be_app treats the message slower as the window quits[23:33:03] <pythium> hm adding delays in code is ugly :P[23:33:10] <pythium> unless there is no other way around it[23:33:42] <Anarchos> pythium i know; i am sad to do that[23:34:06] *** lorenzo has joined #haiku[23:34:06] *** jmayfield__ has joined #haiku[23:34:19] *** dru345 has joined #haiku[23:34:25] <pythium> hey dru345[23:34:37] <dru345> hi[23:36:57] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC[23:44:19] *** Megaf has joined #haiku[23:44:56] *** bubsy has quit IRC[23:46:25] *** bubsy has joined #haiku[23:56:24] *** Megaf has quit IRC[23:57:27] *** JoeyA has joined #haiku[23:58:09] *** Dj_Dexter has joined #haiku[23:58:28] *** |PulkoMandy| has quit IRC