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[00:24:31] <StreaK|ON> hi all
[00:24:51] <l_n> so networking is going to be severely broken while axel rewrites it?
[00:25:04] <l_n> or is it going to be in a branch until ready to merge?
[00:25:06] <CIA-54> yourpalal * r37798 /haiku/trunk/headers/os/interface/GridLayout.h: Convert to unix line endings.
[00:25:29] <StreaK|ON> i've messed a little bit with haiku's QT and compiled a small rss reader :)
[00:25:41] <l_n> StreaK|ON: nice.
[00:25:42] * StreaK|ON claps his hands
[00:25:44] <StreaK|ON> :)
[00:25:46] <mmadia> some of that is mostly in jest, l_n .... at least i hope :)
[00:26:19] <l_n> StreaK|ON: and now to convert it to BeAPI :)
[00:27:08] <l_n> gluon: is the atheros issue only in fbsd right now or has it made it to haiku?
[00:27:26] <StreaK|ON> l_n: .. not now :P.. firstly i need get into QT for good, never used it before
[00:27:51] <l_n> native > Qt
[00:28:28] <l_n> IMHO
[00:28:30] <StreaK|ON> l_n native is better, yes yes.. :)
[00:29:25] <StreaK|ON> just give me RAD or good gui creator for native haiku apps similar to qt designer
[00:29:33] <StreaK|ON> :)
[00:29:41] <l_n> port qt designer to BeAPI :p
[00:29:45] <l_n> :P *
[00:29:56] <l_n> (stupid caps lock)
[00:30:36] <StreaK|ON> easier solution -> modyfy qt designer to produce beapi code..
[00:30:52] <StreaK|ON> and call it haiku designer :)
[00:31:35] <l_n> that's what i meant by "port qt...."
[00:31:36] <StreaK|ON> anyway.. it could be a good bounty [create good RAD for Haiku apps]
[00:32:36] <yourpalal> I was thinking I might do that after GSoC :)
[00:32:43] <yourpalal> Write a ui designer
[00:33:02] <oco> StreaK|ON : if Qt is ok, then there is also Lazarus as RAD
[00:34:39] <l_n> lazarus appears to be for freepascal..
[00:35:00] <stpere> it is
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[00:39:15] <Duggan> hey StreaK|ON, yourpalal, l_n, etc
[00:39:29] <yourpalal> hi Duggan
[00:40:59] <Duggan> are we having fun yet?
[00:41:29] <yourpalal> yes!
[00:41:59] <Duggan> good :)
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[00:45:02] * Duggan yawns.
[00:45:41] <StreaK|ON> hey Duggan
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[00:46:36] <StreaK|ON> oco, Lazarus is nice.. that reminds me old primary school and pascal lessons :)
[00:46:42] <StreaK|ON> hehe
[00:46:51] <oco> :)
[00:47:29] <oco> no binaries yet though, but compiling from source should work
[00:47:56] <StreaK|ON> even today pascal is much better that crappy slow .net framework or cursed java
[00:48:10] <StreaK|ON> to code nice small apps
[00:48:16] <Duggan> StreaK|ON niue's source is on osdrawer... I'd work on it but I don't think I like the license (that whole non-commercial clause is too GPLish for my tastes)
[00:49:33] <StreaK|ON> Duggan, send email to author, maybe he'll change the licensing..
[00:49:41] <Duggan> I'm considering it
[00:49:44] <StreaK|ON> there is nothing to lose
[00:50:00] <Duggan> but then again, if they wanted it distributed under a different license, they would've done that from the start :P
[00:50:03] <StreaK|ON> in worst case, he say "no way , man"
[00:51:11] <StreaK|ON> Duggan, remember that niue is +2 yrs old currently, maybe author dont care now about it [sourcecode], anyway
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[00:51:52] <Duggan> yes but even though it hasn't been touched on osdrawer in 2 years, the web site states a new release is due out "mid twentyten"
[00:51:52] <StreaK|ON> http://omploader.org/vNTJyOA
[00:52:53] <Duggan> looks neat... I never got into rss feeds but I wanted to
[00:53:37] <StreaK|ON> its just straight recompilation of sources i find today somewhere..
[00:53:47] <StreaK|ON> but it works..
[00:53:48] <StreaK|ON> :)
[00:54:21] <StreaK|ON> i need to find something that replaces BePodder, because i have a lot of problems with it..
[00:54:30] <StreaK|ON> and Thunderbird sucks on haiku
[00:54:32] <Duggan> have you tried my program yet? :P
[00:54:37] <StreaK|ON> PIT?
[00:54:41] <Duggan> yep :P
[00:54:45] <StreaK|ON> New version?
[00:54:50] <Duggan> sure
[00:54:51] <StreaK|ON> not yet
[00:54:56] <StreaK|ON> dl it soon
[00:55:00] <Duggan> the bugs that were there were nothing big and completely avoidable
[00:55:14] <Duggan> so theres no change if you didn't notice them before
[00:55:28] <StreaK|ON> can i order a pizza using PIT , now?
[00:55:32] <StreaK|ON> :)
[00:55:35] <Duggan> probably :P
[00:55:53] <StreaK|ON> excellent.. downloading then :)
[00:55:56] <Duggan> lol
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[01:02:06] <dru345> hi all o/
[01:07:48] <Duggan> hey dru345
[01:08:08] <dru345> hi duggan, what ya been working on?
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[01:08:36] <Duggan> well...
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[01:08:53] <Duggan> actually...
[01:09:22] <Duggan> I'm getting some information together so I can start designing my own language, which I will then design and write a compiler for
[01:09:32] <Duggan> which I will then use that language to write its own compiler
[01:09:38] <dru345> hmm interesting
[01:09:46] <Duggan> which then I will write an operating system with that language using that compiler
[01:10:06] <dru345> but why? :P
[01:10:08] <Duggan> until I can compile that compiler to run on that operating system
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[01:10:33] <Duggan> at which time I will use that compiler for that language in that operating system to compile that compiler for that language
[01:10:44] <kirilla> heh
[01:11:02] <Duggan> dru345 bored mostly
[01:11:18] <dru345> ...
[01:11:36] <Duggan> btw, writing the first compiler in assembly until its self hosting
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[01:13:10] <kirilla> Duggan: what language properties are you aiming for?
[01:15:56] <Duggan> most likely another enhanced qbasic clone
[01:16:01] <StreaK|ON> nooo...
[01:16:46] <Duggan> the problem is most similar languages stray too far from the original syntax in their attempts to integrate things like pointers but still trying to look nothing like c/c++
[01:16:51] <StreaK|ON> write new brainfu*k language.. and make a base for creating new OS on it
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[01:17:11] <Duggan> StreaK|ON if I write any language like that it'll be intercal
[01:17:40] <Duggan> no, I want something thats useful and easy for beginners to use
[01:18:16] <Duggan> something that is useful and brings people to programming, not scares them away :P
[01:18:29] <StreaK|ON> brainfu*k syntax is pure gold -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
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[01:19:53] <l_n> BF!!!
[01:19:58] <l_n> :) :) :) :)
[01:19:59] <Dai> crazy question: i'm putting together a multiboot usb drive with grub2 and various OSes.  i'm a little stuck on haiku.  since it's using the ISO as a loopback mount, how would i go about setting the proper root.  set root=(loop) isn't working (and there's probably an obvious reason why that i'm missing)
[01:20:04] <Dai> ah, wall of text.
[01:20:08] <l_n> obfuscated code makes me happy.
[01:20:10] <kirilla> would be nice to have a systems programming language better than C
[01:20:21] <l_n> kirilla: i vote for BF
[01:20:42] <Xeon3D> o/
[01:20:51] <kirilla> :} well...
[01:21:22] <l_n> StreaK|ON: have you ever looked at some of the IOCCC winners?
[01:22:12] <Duggan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercal
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[01:22:51] <Duggan> kirilla thats what I was aiming for :P
[01:23:53] <kirilla> looking
[01:25:04] <Duggan> no no not "thats (intercal) was what I was aiming for)
[01:25:25] <Duggan> I meant "that (a systems programming language better than c) was what I was aiming for"
[01:25:28] <kirilla> it's syntax includes backspace? :]
[01:25:35] <Duggan> yes :P
[01:25:48] <kirilla> ah, I get it
[01:26:28] <kirilla> I too have been toying with that idea, but alas, I am a shrimp in the sea of languages
[01:26:34] <l_n> befunge is worse than intercal IIRC
[01:27:12] <StreaK|ON> l_n, nope
[01:27:25] <kirilla> some kind of interasm runtime
[01:27:48] <kirilla> crossasm :7
[01:27:48] <Duggan> http://www.catb.org/~esr/intercal/intercal.txt.gz
[01:28:36] <StreaK|ON> lol, http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2004/anonymous.c
[01:28:49] <kirilla> do you guys find that webpositive hangs a lot? when it does, all its tabs hang for me
[01:29:39] <StreaK|ON> kirilla, mine.. never hangs
[01:30:48] <StreaK|ON> but rendering engine sometimes freeze threads for second or two
[01:30:54] <StreaK|ON> imo
[01:31:39] <kirilla> yeah, I can switch tabs, but I can't scroll pages.. like its the rendering engine. maybe
[01:35:30] <Duggan> StreaK|ON what does that do?
[01:35:31] <l_n> mmm... kaffee ist sehr gut :)
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[01:36:20] <StreaK|ON> Duggan, i have no clue, ..hmm.. but for sure compilable in gcc :)
[01:37:26] <l_n> StreaK|ON: there's a 'spoilers' page on ioccc.org that tells what they're supposed to do.
[01:37:36] <l_n> one guy wrote an OS in obfuscated C
[01:37:40] <l_n> o_O
[01:37:41] <StreaK|ON> nice
[01:38:10] <kirilla> looks like osnews missed the release of freebsd 8.1
[01:38:32] <Duggan> hmm web+ just crashed :/
[01:38:34] <Duggan> first time in a while
[01:39:28] <Duggan> StreaK|ON: from Dr. Ken Perlin's website:
[01:40:05] <Duggan> main(k){float i,j,r,x,y=-16;while(puts(""),y++<15)for(x=0;x++<84;putchar(" .:-;!/>)|&IH%*#"[k&15]))for(i=k=r=0;j=r*r-i*i-2+x/25,i=2*r*i+y/10,j*j+i*i<11&&k++<111;r=j);}
[01:40:29] <Duggan> with a little modification it compiles and runs and I must admit, the output is rather interesting :)
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[01:41:00] <l_n> Duggan: what modification?
[01:41:30] <Duggan> well years back when I tried it I got some errors I had to fix first
[01:43:11] <l_n> it runs unmodified.
[01:43:15] <l_n> the output is nice.
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[01:45:32] <StreaK|ON> Duggan, hmm.. this source reminds me and my painfull trip into understanding and using SED command
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[01:46:16] <StreaK|ON> which is powerfull but suck when want to learn it and understand..
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[01:49:12] <StreaK|ON> ok, need to go [sleep mode]
[01:49:23] <StreaK|ON> goodnight all
[01:49:34] <dru345> ;night StreaK|ON
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[02:09:39] <l_n> heh.. bf interpreter with competition scoring built-in
[02:09:40] <l_n> :)
[02:09:46] <l_n> it works in Terminal
[02:12:58] <l_n> the three interpreters at http://hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/ work (after adding #include <stdlib.h> to two of them)
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[02:21:30] <CIA-54> yourpalal * r37799 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/TabView.cpp:
[02:21:30] <CIA-54> Update BTabView to initialize fContainerView to NULL before calling
[02:21:30] <CIA-54> _InitContainerView() from _InitData(). This fixes a regression DeadYak pointed
[02:21:30] <CIA-54> out to me on IRC. (thanks DeadYak, sorry everyone!) Also a bit of cleanup,
[02:21:30] <CIA-54> improved _InitContainerView() to not AddChild(fContainerView) if it was not
[02:21:31] <CIA-54> created. Also archive BTabView::fBorderStyle.
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[02:38:17] <Anarchos> how to update gcc2 ?
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[04:06:49] <CIA-54> czeidler * r37800 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/ (6 files):
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[04:27:13] <Duggan> searching for "hey" on haiku-os.org isn't very helpful :/
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[04:30:49] <dru345> hello OmniMancer|Haiku
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[04:35:58] <Duggan> sweet... http://www.birdhouse.org/beos/bible/bos/chapters0-scot.html
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[05:06:59] <cpr420> srbaker: how goes the gui mode?
[05:07:24] <dru345> gui mode?
[05:07:55] <cpr420> a mode which incorporates graphical elements :P
[05:10:23] * cpr420 is just messin' with dru345
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[05:10:35] <cpr420> emacs
[05:10:37] <dru345> ah :P
[05:10:40] <dru345> eww emacs ;P
[05:13:08] <Duggan> dru345 other window :P
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[05:16:22] * dru345 hums come to my windows
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[05:39:34] <havokmalo> What's wrong with emacs :p
[05:39:57] <cpr420> he fears the awesomeness of it
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[05:40:20] <havokmalo> Heh
[05:40:25] <havokmalo> When are they switching to Guile?
[05:40:44] <cpr420> 2025?
[05:40:55] <havokmalo> Right, so when GNU HURD is released.
[05:41:11] <cpr420> I have no idea, just kidding around
[05:41:17] <cpr420> I've heard that rumor before though
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[05:55:34] <dru345> does trunk build?
[05:56:00] <dru345> someone was having issues jamming. :P
[05:56:10] <dru345> i haven't tried lately
[05:56:10] <havokmalo> The greater question: Does trunk BLEND? (Sorry)
[05:56:19] <dru345> heh havokmalo
[05:56:26] <cpr420> I haven't seen BOM complain
[05:56:46] <dru345> ko
[05:56:48] <dru345> ok
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[05:57:02] <dru345> must be a local issue
[05:57:17] <cpr420> BOM doesn't test all possibilites though
[06:05:30] <dru345> tried to jam tracker and i get vfork: Out of memory :/
[06:05:50] <dru345> this is building trunk, no mods
[06:07:55] <cpr420> on Haiku?
[06:08:04] <dru345> yes
[06:08:26] <cpr420> hmm, dunno, I've seen that on Linux if you don't use the right version of jam
[06:09:26] <dru345> i'm puzzled since it worked before i updated trunk
[06:09:39] <dru345> i'll increase the vm's ram
[06:14:53] <dru345> assinging more ram seems to have helped
[06:14:59] <dru345> assigning*
[06:16:45] <dru345> puzzling since it's only using <120MB. VM was set to 256MB with virtual memory off.
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[06:39:48] <dru345> hi OmniMancer
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[06:48:24] <OmniMancer> hi
[06:50:57] <dru345> 'sup OmniMancer?
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[07:09:02] <CIA-54> czeidler * r37801 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/ (7 files):
[07:09:18] <srbaker> cpr420: i've been terribly busy, haven't gotten to fucking with it entirely yet
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[07:09:33] <mawst> What's the Haiku logo font?
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[07:13:32] <dru345> mmadia may know the answer mawst
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[07:17:41] <mawst> Futura EF Medium perhaps
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[07:19:52] <mawst> Or some such family.
[07:19:54] <mawst> :)
[07:20:05] <dru345> perhaps
[07:20:18] <dru345> mmadia handles all the logo / trademark stuff it seems
[07:20:21] <cpr420> it's something starting with S
[07:20:33] <dru345> that's for the alpha 1 / 2 stamps
[07:20:41] <kurain> hello all
[07:20:52] <RQ> hi
[07:21:38] <dru345> cpr420 is thinking of sistemas for the "release" stamps
[07:21:38] <kurain> hi RQ
[07:21:43] <dru345> hi kurain
[07:22:06] <cpr420> yeah, could be Futura MT
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[07:24:45] <mawst> http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4108/drawingt.png
[07:24:51] <mawst> I'd say that's a close match
[07:25:17] <mawst> It's all about the "A"
[07:26:32] <yourpalal> while we're on the subject of the Haiku logo, check out the background I made :P  http://img822.imageshack.us/i/haikurenderglass.jpg/
[07:26:36] <cpr420> According to the mailing list it's "Futura Medium"
[07:26:48] <mawst> Oh nice
[07:27:33] <mawst> Yeah I used Futura LT
[07:27:44] <mawst> Inkscape doesn't seem to allow the others in the family
[07:27:58] <mawst> yourpalal, what did you use to make that? Nice.
[07:27:58] <yourpalal> thanks :) Sorry to drop that in with very little context :P
[07:28:05] <yourpalal> I used Blender
[07:28:12] <mawst> I've been meaning to get started on that.
[07:28:20] <mawst> I have Maxon 3d too, which is supposed to be easy to learn.
[07:28:23] <mawst> 4d*
[07:28:38] <mawst> I usually install, open, go cross eyed and give up.
[07:28:39] <yourpalal> haha, I'm not very good, but its fun to play around with it :)
[07:28:53] <mawst> I do have blender installed as well though.
[07:30:07] <yourpalal> I've only ever really used blender, but I do like it. The control is kind of vim-like, which I enjoy :)
[07:31:31] <Duggan> omg web+ is screwed...
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[07:31:57] <yourpalal> Duggan: why do you say that?
[07:32:05] <mawst> yourpalal, if you could add a shadow to that it may add some more awesomeness
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[07:32:44] <yourpalal> Do you mean a shadow behind? the leaves cast a very light shadow no the letters
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[07:33:04] <yourpalal> s /no/on/
[07:33:10] <Duggan> yourpalal I looked at that wallpaper and clicked on it to try to get a better view...
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[07:33:27] <mawst> e.g. if the text cast a shadow
[07:33:37] <Duggan> then a popover came up and I couldn't resize or close the window or anything, I had to kill web+.....
[07:33:47] <Duggan> then when I restarted it was in fullscreen and it wouldn't switch back
[07:33:57] <mawst> The leaf shadow is nice
[07:34:00] <Duggan> I figured it out though
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[07:34:34] <yourpalal> mawst: yeah, that would be cool, I think at some point I tried that, but I had too many light sources and it looked weird :P I think though that I could specify for a surface to only receive shadows from a certain light source... maybe?
[07:35:03] <OmniMancer> you could always fix the lighting properly :P
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[07:37:48] <mawst> :P
[07:41:30] <yourpalal> OmniMancer: yes... I Could do that :P What I really need to do is make a nice gradient for the leaves, I cheated by pointing a lamp at them :P
[07:43:06] <yourpalal> OmniMancer: are you good with blender?
[07:46:38] <OmniMancer> :P
[07:46:44] <OmniMancer> not especially :P
[07:46:47] <DraX> dsfjasdjflsakdjflsafsadhf;lkdsahflsa;dhflsa;dhfsadlfsa;dhfalsrhoeqrhflfdsnhasd
[07:47:05] <OmniMancer> indeed DraX, so true
[07:47:16] <DraX> god i know
[07:47:36] <DraX> tomorrow is last day of orientation <3
[07:47:42] <yourpalal> OmniMancer: darn
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[07:52:51] <yourpalal> I give up for now, I'm not good enough :P
[07:57:17] <Duggan> got a silly question :)
[07:57:29] <Duggan> say I want my program to have plugins
[07:57:45] <Duggan> what is the best way for them to be compiled as libraries?
[07:58:08] <Duggan> where would I get more info on how to go about loading it and all that?
[07:58:22] <yourpalal> http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/TheKernelKit_Images_Overview.html
[07:58:57] <Duggan> I love you yourpalal
[07:59:05] <yourpalal> awww :)
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[08:06:33] <Duggan> interesting... it doesn't seem to state how to query for the available add-ons
[08:07:40] <yourpalal> well, that would be up to your app, wouldn't it? you could create a special mime type, and find all files of that type if you wanted
[08:09:02] <OmniMancer> or look in a place
[08:09:16] <OmniMancer> that is about how to load them when you have the file :P
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[08:09:34] <Duggan> yourpalal ah ok
[08:11:57] <yourpalal> OmniMancer has a good point though, that is easier and makes it easier for users to disable an add-on
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[08:14:54] <OmniMancer> you could always use a mimetype in a directory :P
[08:15:15] <Duggan> yourpalal that was my intent but if I go about loading files willy-nilly expecting them to be addons....
[08:15:17] <yourpalal> yes, as Hannah Montana would say "THE BEEEEEEEST OF BOTH WOOOORLDS"
[08:16:14] <cpr420> seriously?
[08:16:19] <yourpalal> :D
[08:22:05] <OmniMancer> not cool yourpalal, not cool
[08:22:32] <yourpalal> you don't like awesome music, OmniMancer?
[08:23:41] <Duggan> she's hot
[08:24:05] <yourpalal> she's 17!
[08:24:12] <Duggan> thats legal in most states
[08:24:28] <CK|iPod> ^
[08:24:43] <yourpalal> :P
[08:24:51] <CK|iPod> And Canada
[08:24:59] <Duggan> 13's legal in Japan
[08:25:08] <Duggan> :P
[08:25:24] <Duggan> bit young for me though
[08:25:26] <yourpalal> yes it is 14 in Canada, but, as a programmer, you should know that legalit != morality
[08:25:39] <Duggan> 14 in canada?....
[08:25:43] <Duggan> didn't know that one
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[08:28:51] <OmniMancer> it is legal to use templates for evil
[08:29:00] <OmniMancer> it is imorral and unethical to do so :P
[08:29:15] <yourpalal> but it is moral to use templates for extreme awesomeness!!
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[08:31:19] <CK|iPod> So if Miley Cyrus was a template
[08:31:25] <CK|iPod> Would you use her?
[08:31:30] * CK|iPod runs
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[08:44:45] <yourpalal> so, OmniMancer, what is the current state of compiling Haiku w/ clang?
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[09:05:46] <OmniMancer> yourpalal: I have not tried yet
[09:05:48] <OmniMancer> too busy
[09:06:13] <yourpalal> ah, would it be midterm time for you?
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[09:11:16] <jmayfield> hi
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[09:12:07] <humdinger> hello
[09:12:52] <cpr420> hm, didn't notice there was another coloradan here
[09:13:57] <OmniMancer> no
[09:14:04] <OmniMancer> but it isn't summer holidays :P
[09:14:19] <OmniMancer> its a fair ways into the third term
[09:14:29] <jmayfield> been playing with hg a lot lately.. like it
[09:18:48] <cpr420> hg rulez!
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[09:22:59] <OmniMancer> I think m-x m-butterfly works better :P
[09:23:56] <yourpalal> :)
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[09:45:13] <cpr420> MasterStarman: what part of CO?
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[09:47:06] <MasterStarman> Denver/Lakewood
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[09:47:32] <cpr420> nice, I'm out in Aurora
[09:47:45] <cpr420> I think we're up to 5-6 people now
[09:47:54] <MasterStarman> for what, Colorado?
[09:47:59] <cpr420> yu[
[09:48:01] <cpr420> yup
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[09:50:18] <CIA-54> axeld * r37802 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/network/interfaces.cpp:
[09:50:18] <CIA-54> * Fixed a memory leak in if_nameindex() - it never freed the buffer that
[09:50:18] <CIA-54> stored the interfaces from SIOCGIFCONF.
[09:50:18] <CIA-54> * Fixed iteration over the ifreq structures; the returned structure per
[09:50:18] <CIA-54> interface may not be equal to the size of ifreq.
[09:50:26] <cpr420> MasterStarman: I almost had one of the other guys interested in starting CHUG (Colorado Haiku User Group) ;)
[09:51:09] <MasterStarman> heh, maybe in the future
[09:51:24] <MasterStarman> I hang out here right now to see where the project is going
[09:51:29] <cpr420> it was a joke mainly
[09:51:34] <MasterStarman> School keeps me too busy to really contribute now
[09:51:47] <cpr420> CHUG with Coors or New Belgium Brewing as a sponsor
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[10:42:15] <marshan> morning
[10:45:19] <iIngenu> hi
[10:45:30] <marshan> hi iIngenu
[10:45:51] <Xeon3D> yo
[10:46:09] <marshan> hi Xeon3D
[10:47:00] <Xeon3D> marshan, are you going to swap nicks?
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[10:48:00] <StreaK|ON> hi all
[10:48:44] <Xeon3D> heya StreaK|ON
[10:48:48] <marshan> Xeon3D, nah, i've registered both nicks "marshan" & "Teknomancer"
[10:49:05] <marshan> my other system is now facing reboots every few minutes (because of my driver :P )
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[10:49:07] <marshan> so i didn't login
[10:49:10] <ali3n0> hi folks
[10:49:11] <marshan> from there
[10:49:13] <Xeon3D> StreaK|ON, I could use your knowledge... I got two preety polish chicks staying on the inn... :D
[10:49:18] <Xeon3D> hi ali3n0
[10:49:41] <ali3n0> suggestions about a lightweight c++ editor on linux?
[10:50:00] <Xeon3D> c++ editor?
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[10:50:05] <Xeon3D> as in .. text editor?
[10:50:09] <ali3n0> yep
[10:50:13] <marshan> i just used gedit
[10:50:14] <ali3n0> I'm using gedit
[10:50:16] <marshan> it's lightweight enough
[10:50:17] <yourpalal> ali3n0: vim
[10:50:23] <Xeon3D> nano
[10:50:24] <ali3n0> vim could be
[10:50:25] <Xeon3D> :D
[10:50:35] <StreaK|ON> Xeon3D , yes
[10:50:42] <ali3n0> but I'd like a little bit of extra, like parenthesis check for ex
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[10:50:47] <StreaK|ON> tell me about them
[10:50:51] <Xeon3D> erm
[10:51:00] <Xeon3D> they're polish and they're preety. that's about it :D
[10:51:13] <yourpalal> ali3n0: vim has syntax highlighting & folding, among other things
[10:51:26] <Xeon3D> they're from a city which name in polish is similar to warsow but it's now warsow
[10:51:32] <Xeon3D> *not
[10:52:12] <ali3n0> yourpalal, yep vim was a choice, tnx btw
[10:52:23] <StreaK|ON> warszawa -> warsaw
[10:52:50] <StreaK|ON> warszawa -> in polish -> warsaw -> in eng :)
[10:52:54] <yourpalal> welcome
[10:53:09] <marshan> i've never found folding of any use
[10:53:18] <marshan> too mouse-oriented
[10:53:35] <ali3n0> I'd like to see parenthesis checking though
[10:53:42] <marshan> that's there even in gedit
[10:54:04] <marshan> but gedit is very minimalist, i use it because OpenSolaris has no other decent editor and I don't like using vim much
[10:54:07] <Xeon3D> StreaK|ON, well it's not warszawa, it ends in sow or ow or smth
[10:54:07] <Xeon3D> lol
[10:54:10] <yourpalal> ali3n0: if by parentesis checking, you mean highlighting the matching parenthesis, then vim has that too
[10:54:16] <StreaK|ON> Xeon3D , tell me -> your build of vision still crashing on exit? i wanted to add it to SPM
[10:54:30] <Xeon3D> StreaK|ON, prolly yeah.
[10:54:32] <StreaK|ON> Xeon3D -> kraków ? krakow ?
[10:54:39] <Xeon3D> hmmm nope.
[10:55:00] <dru345-haiku> hi StreaK|ON
[10:55:07] <StreaK|ON> hi dru345
[10:55:13] <Xeon3D> I haven't touched it in a while, and I don't think I ever got to bug AnEvilYak about it.
[10:55:34] <StreaK|ON> oh, i see
[10:55:35] <Xeon3D> (and I haven't fiddled with Haiku in a long while)
[10:56:15] <Xeon3D> I'm gonna wait till rev 38000 or 39000 before I fiddle with it again. :)
[10:56:22] <ali3n0> marshan, my gedit doesn't seems to care about parenthesis though
[10:56:35] <StreaK|ON> btw.. any of you knows good RSS reader for QT with source, maybe?
[10:56:41] <marshan> ali3n0, Edit->Preferences  "Highlight matching bracket"
[10:56:41] <ali3n0> I guess I need to look into plugins
[10:56:48] <dru345-haiku> won't be far off Xeon3D - hit 37800 already :P
[10:56:50] <ali3n0> got it .)
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[10:57:21] <marshan> if you want an overkill of a text editor, get SlickEdit :P
[10:57:30] <Xeon3D> StreaK|ON, http://www.tuxradar.com/content/code-project-create-qt-rss-reader
[10:57:37] <marshan> it's probably the fastest editor i've seen to handle gigabytes of code
[10:57:48] <marshan> but it costs $$ :)
[10:58:30] <Xeon3D> I like notepad++ for windows , maybe there's a port or something?
[10:58:35] <StreaK|ON> 37800 you say... almost 30 changes daily from 37800 , so its... 6,666666 days :)
[10:58:36] <marshan> our lead engineer uses that one, he works on code for Solaris, linux, windows, BSD, OS/2 platforms
[10:58:46] <marshan> Xeon3D, Pe is good enough
[10:58:48] <marshan> i thought
[10:58:57] <StreaK|ON> Xeon, i done that yesterday :)
[10:59:02] <marshan> i started writing a text editor years ago for BeOS
[10:59:06] <StreaK|ON> i compiled it on haiku :)
[10:59:08] <marshan> than I ended up needing to write my own BTextView
[10:59:11] <marshan> that's when i said "meh"
[10:59:25] <marshan> at that time it didn't seem worth it
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[11:00:04] <Xeon3D> well, since I'll be getting a new machine in the next two days, I'll prolly use 37800 then...
[11:00:22] <Xeon3D> but I had the impression that the latest builds were a bit unstable due to the latest hackery.
[11:00:42] <marshan> testing builds are not meant to be tested :P
[11:01:59] <Xeon3D> StreaK|ON, http://qt-apps.org/content/search.php type RSS and go :D
[11:02:22] <StreaK|ON> Xeon3D -> btw. http://omploader.org/vNTJyOA
[11:02:51] <Xeon3D> heh nice :)
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[11:03:40] <Xeon3D> even tho I prefer native apps :)
[11:04:10] <Xeon3D> StreaK|ON, did you ever improved the scrolling or loading slowness on SPM?
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[11:04:15] <Xeon3D> *improve
[11:04:26] <marshan> brb, need to go laugh at friend's wedding photos
[11:04:40] <StreaK|ON> Xeon3D, YES.. its a bit faster in 0.6.1
[11:04:42] <StreaK|ON> :)
[11:04:55] <StreaK|ON> especially GCC4 build
[11:05:10] <StreaK|ON> and working on GCC4h or gCC4 OS
[11:05:28] <StreaK|ON> gcc2 version was slower...
[11:06:07] <Xeon3D> strange... I had the impression it was not coded in C...
[11:06:28] <Xeon3D> but some Yab thingy
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[11:09:40] <leszek> hi
[11:09:43] <StreaK|ON> yes it is in yab, but you can compile it in two version to executable binary
[11:09:53] <StreaK|ON> in gcc2 and gcc4
[11:10:19] <StreaK|ON> btw.. this should be nice for "temporary" haiku rss feed reader.. http://qt-apps.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=117618&file1=117618-1.jpg&file2=&file3=&name=DRSS+News+Reader
[11:10:25] <StreaK|ON> i need to look into it
[11:10:56] <Xeon3D> I hate the gui of that app.
[11:11:16] <Xeon3D> does anyone know what is the software on that portal? (qt-apps.org) =
[11:11:17] <Xeon3D> ?
[11:11:46] <StreaK|ON> gui isnt impressive, but i can modify it :)
[11:12:04] <dru345> open sores apps always look bad :/
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[11:13:14] <StreaK|ON> commercial apps are always pretty because they're designed by chuck norris :)
[11:13:17] <dru345> hi brobostigon
[11:13:47] <brobostigon> morning all.
[11:13:52] <brobostigon> hi dru345
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[11:14:01] <StreaK|ON> mornin' brobostigon
[11:14:19] <yourpalal> goodnight
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[11:14:37] <Duggan> so making an image, I guess the output is just an object file?
[11:14:43] <brobostigon> hi StreaK|ON
[11:14:55] <Duggan> no linking?
[11:17:03] <ali3n0> mmm... what's the difference between a statement like  (const char *filePath = "/tmp/MyTestFile.txt")  and   (const char filePath[20] = "/tmp/MyTestFile.txt") ?
[11:17:15] <StreaK|ON> ok, need to go [eat some breakfast]
[11:17:21] <StreaK|ON> bye
[11:17:21] <OmniMancer> Duggan: you make a shared object or application...
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[11:18:31] <Duggan> ali3n0 I'm not positive but I think one is on the heap and the other is on the stack, but don't quote me on that
[11:18:51] <Duggan> OmniMancer I compiled it and I got a .o file... is that normal?
[11:19:16] <ali3n0> Duggan, cause I get values from "sizeof(filePath)" that I can't understand
[11:19:46] <Duggan> explain?
[11:20:13] <Duggan> what kinds of values?
[11:20:35] <OmniMancer> one of them is a pointer
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[11:20:43] <OmniMancer> set to be the value of the static string
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[11:21:04] <OmniMancer> the other is an array which I think its contents is copied from the static string
[11:21:10] <marshan> re
[11:21:15] <Duggan> an array is a pointer
[11:21:19] <OmniMancer> the sizeof the array will be 20 and the sizeof the pointer will be 4
[11:21:28] <OmniMancer> Duggan: the name of an array is a pointer
[11:21:31] <marshan> Duggan, no it's not
[11:21:37] <Duggan> :/
[11:21:43] <OmniMancer> the array itself also implies a storage space
[11:22:40] * ali3n0 is so confused :-/
[11:23:23] <ali3n0> so OmniMancer if I initialize the pointer, I don't get a char array too?
[11:23:37] <OmniMancer> it will act like a char array
[11:23:47] <ali3n0> but it's not
[11:23:51] <OmniMancer> for example you can index it as you can index pointers in C/C++
[11:24:03] <OmniMancer> it is however just a pointer to the static storage space
[11:24:14] <OmniMancer> you should not alter what it points to either
[11:24:21] <ali3n0> so is more flexible in this way
[11:24:34] <phoudoin> sizeof(filePath) = 4 for first, 20 for the second array version.
[11:24:50] <ali3n0> yep, cause a pointer uses 4 bytes... ok
[11:24:55] <ali3n0> now is more clear, thanks
[11:25:07] <CIA-54> axeld * r37803 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/ (4 files in 3 dirs): * Replaced ENODEV with B_DEVICE_NOT_FOUND.
[11:25:08] <marshan> pointer arithmetic and array indexing are the same
[11:25:12] <marshan> but arrays and pointers are different
[11:25:32] <ali3n0> marshan, this is the thing I'm still struggling with
[11:25:48] <phoudoin> Plus the array is stored on the stack, except if it's a global variable.
[11:26:15] <phoudoin> for const string, the pointer version is far better for sure.
[11:26:42] <OmniMancer> the name of an array is a pointer to its first element
[11:26:43] <ali3n0> well, I don't have to say how long it is for instance
[11:27:07] <OmniMancer> pretty much everything except sizeof and initialisations are the same as pointers I believe
[11:27:33] <OmniMancer> a pointer doesn't know how long anything is as it isn't an array, it is merely an indirection to something else
[11:27:41] <phoudoin> plus you don't exaust your stack as fast. 4 bytes vs array size.
[11:27:42] <OmniMancer> you can use it to traverse an array
[11:28:01] <OmniMancer> the pointer still needs somewhere to actually put the data
[11:28:06] <marshan> yes the compiler will decay to a pointer in the expression, with certain exceptions
[11:28:09] <ali3n0> ok, so if I want to know how long it is the string, I need to use strlen in case of the pointer
[11:28:20] <marshan> when the array is the operand of a sizeof or & operator, or is a string literal initializer for a character array for example
[11:28:22] <phoudoin> in both case
[11:28:52] <ali3n0> in array case, sizeof gives me the same
[11:28:57] <phoudoin> for instance, say you've declared const char array[255] = "hello";
[11:29:07] <ali3n0> ok
[11:29:25] <phoudoin> nope, sizeof returns the size of the array, not the actual string stored as a series of chars in it
[11:29:40] <tqh> ali3n0, phoudoin  or if you set array[3] = 0;
[11:29:40] <ali3n0> yep, but if I define a const, I know how long it is
[11:29:59] <CIA-54> axeld * r37804 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
[11:29:59] <CIA-54> * Made sure is_empty_address() also detects AF_UNSPEC addresses as empty.
[11:29:59] <CIA-54> * The is_empty_address() function of AF_UNIX did not deal correctly with empty
[11:29:59] <CIA-54> addresses.
[11:30:08] <phoudoin> I do above with 255, but 255 is not the string lenght.
[11:30:44] <ali3n0> but why allocate 255? you already know it is 5 chars long
[11:30:45] <phoudoin> tqh: const char array -> error at compile.
[11:31:23] <tqh> yes for a const array, but I was talking about why sizeof is bad.
[11:31:31] <marshan> sizeof is not bad
[11:31:37] <marshan> it does exactly what it says it does
[11:31:39] <tqh> for string length
[11:31:42] <phoudoin> I could be wrong  and allocate not enough or (like with 255) far too much to store it.
[11:31:48] <OmniMancer> I think the standard allows you to leave the size out if it is initialised by a compound initialiser
[11:31:54] <marshan> it's not meant to find the string length
[11:31:56] <ali3n0> ok, I get the point now. If I deal with strings, I need to use strlen
[11:31:56] <tqh> a string is defined as a zero terminated array of chars.
[11:32:12] <phoudoin> yep.
[11:32:25] <marshan> sizeof does not evaluate the expression
[11:32:25] <tqh> my example was to show that strlen ignores zero termination
[11:32:29] <phoudoin> Because there is no official string variable in C.
[11:33:01] <ali3n0> tqh, yep, but sizeof talks about memory consumption, not variable values, so makes sense to me
[11:33:19] <phoudoin> tqh: okay, see your point.
[11:33:35] <ali3n0> so, let's say I want to know how much memory is consuming my const char * string
[11:33:52] <tqh> ali3n0, and that is how and what you should use it for. But never for string length.
[11:34:05] <marshan> the operand is only ever evaluated if it's a variable length array type
[11:34:06] <phoudoin> to make things even more complex, all this talk is only valid for 8bits wide chars.
[11:34:21] <CIA-54> axeld * r37805 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/unix/UnixAddress.cpp: * Fixed typo that broke the build.
[11:34:45] <ali3n0> shoud I do a strlen(string) * sizeof(*string) ?
[11:34:49] <tqh> and also that definition of string is pretty inefficient,
[11:34:54] <marshan> example sizeof(i++) will give you the size of "int" (assuming i is int) and will not evaluate i++.
[11:35:09] <tqh> bstring is better if you plan to manipulate strings.
[11:35:14] <marshan> ali3n0, no
[11:35:26] <marshan> strlen(str) + 1 would do
[11:35:49] <ali3n0> because I know char is 1byte
[11:36:05] <phoudoin> marshan: for 1byte chars, yep.
[11:36:13] <OmniMancer> tqh: and falcon strings are better :D
[11:36:22] <phoudoin> tqh is right, use BString instead.
[11:36:38] <ali3n0> how do I include bstring btw?
[11:36:41] <OmniMancer> however what you get is only how much memory is used by the actual string part
[11:36:55] <phoudoin> UTF8, automatic resize, clean API.
[11:36:59] <OmniMancer> you still have no idea how big the buffer in which the string was placed was allocated to be
[11:37:17] <ali3n0> OmniMancer, there's no way to know that so?
[11:37:18] <phoudoin> ali3n0: #include <String.h> :-)
[11:37:18] <tqh> OmniMancer, hmm
[11:37:31] <marshan> sizeof('a'); is C, C++ are not necessarily the same
[11:37:39] <marshan> s/is/in
[11:37:40] <ali3n0> phoudoin, uh, so easy? :-)
[11:38:07] <phoudoin> Then BString filePath;
[11:38:21] <ali3n0> error: String.h: No such file or directory :(
[11:38:33] <tqh> a concat of two c style strings need to first iterate over both strings to know new mem size, than copy both strings. String definitions that store size can just malloc and copy.
[11:38:42] <phoudoin> filePath << "/tmp/SomeFile.txt" ;
[11:39:04] <phoudoin> ali3n0: under BeOS/Haiku, right?
[11:39:24] <CIA-54> axeld * r37806 /haiku/trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[11:39:24] <CIA-54> * Added Haiku specific socket ioctls to configure the interface aliases:
[11:39:24] <CIA-54> SIOC_IF_ALIAS_ADD, SIOC_IF_ALIAS_REMOVE, SIOC_IF_ALIAS_GET, SIOC_ALIAS_SET,
[11:39:24] <CIA-54> and SIOC_IF_ALIAS_COUNT.
[11:39:24] <CIA-54> * Implemented all of those new ioctls, though they are yet untested.
[11:39:25] <CIA-54> * Added ifreq::ifr_data, and removed the hack in the FreeBSD compat if.h
[11:39:26] <CIA-54> header.
[11:39:34] <ali3n0> nope sorry. So "B"String stays for Be-string
[11:39:56] <ali3n0> I'm on ubuntu here, no way to play on a haiku right now unfortunately
[11:39:57] <phoudoin> for BeOS API string, yes.
[11:40:24] <marshan> phoudoin, btw, can you show me a C spec where sizeof char is not 1?
[11:40:27] <ali3n0> I'm going through the coding lessons on haiku-os.org actually
[11:40:29] <phoudoin> ali3n0: okay, in standard C library there is no string support except the str* functions
[11:40:58] <ali3n0> it's not important, I was just trying to clarify myself about this array/pointer distinction
[11:41:07] <ali3n0> you did it well enough ;)
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[11:41:43] <ali3n0> you know, for a python guy is new (and not so easy) stuff :)
[11:41:50] <phoudoin> marshan: I can't. What I mean is that you need to switch to other API to handle strings/array of wide characters.
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[11:42:46] <phoudoin> ali3n0: That's for sure, Python is a far more modern and high-level language than C.
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[11:43:25] <marshan> and that's also out of the spec, i.e. it's implementation specific
[11:43:32] <marshan> for wide chars
[11:43:36] <phoudoin> ali3n0: why not try the coding lessons under Haiku directly?
[11:43:37] <OmniMancer> may I point out that sizeof presents the sizes in multiples of sizeof a char
[11:43:47] <OmniMancer> so sizeof(char) is ALWAYS meant to be 1
[11:44:16] <ali3n0> phoudoin, I do where I have an haiku I can play with ;)
[11:44:29] <OmniMancer> ali3n0: if you are using C++ then #include <string> will give you std::string which is better than char*s
[11:44:34] <marshan> in fact wchar_t is compiler specific and all the spec says is it has to be at least 8 bits
[11:44:44] <OmniMancer> mhmm
[11:45:04] <OmniMancer> char can technically be 256 bits and then all types must be 256 bits or more :D
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[11:45:14] <phoudoin> OmniMancer: hum, I'm pretty sure the unit of sizeof() return value is byte, not char.
[11:45:29] <phoudoin> Which make no difference except if sizeof(char) != 1.
[11:46:33] <marshan> CHAR_BIT should tell you that
[11:48:44] <phoudoin> anyway, we're supposed to help ali3n0 first steps in C, not to have a crazy discussion about sizeof(char) :-)
[11:48:57] <OmniMancer> no sizeof is chars I am pretty sure
[11:49:00] <ali3n0> I liked it!
[11:49:15] <Teknomancer> there might be some DSP chips where char is > 8 bits, but by definition sizeof(char) is 1
[11:49:21] <phoudoin> ali3n0: then you'll like programming in C/C++ :p
[11:49:29] <ali3n0> guess so :)
[11:49:38] <ali3n0> I've started in Java at uni
[11:49:51] <ali3n0> very basics of course
[11:50:05] <ali3n0> than a few lessons on C/C++ long time forgotten
[11:50:10] <Teknomancer> ali3n0: I suggest getting a good C book
[11:50:20] <Teknomancer> or you'll end up having to unlearn a lot of stuff
[11:50:20] <ali3n0> than became more a sysadmin than a coder
[11:50:57] <ali3n0> Teknomancer, c++ and haiku are just hobbies for now, so I'm fine with lessons and small steps
[11:50:59] <CIA-54> axeld * r37807 /haiku/trunk/src/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
[11:50:59] <CIA-54> * Added new socket ioctls to strace, and the datalink debug output.
[11:50:59] <CIA-54> * Added a few more types to strace's network ioctls.
[11:51:02] <Teknomancer> in uni, we had C "teachers" writing stupid UB code
[11:51:09] <ali3n0> UB?
[11:51:15] <Teknomancer> undefined behaviour
[11:51:36] <ali3n0> :)
[11:51:43] <ali3n0> mine were stupid too
[11:52:03] <ali3n0> I remember I didn't learn anything. Java ones were good though
[11:52:31] <marshan> like assuming the order of evaluation of function arguments
[11:52:44] <OmniMancer> hmmm
[11:52:47] <phoudoin> No, they teach stupid things because they knows you'll need this kind of knowledge to do professionnal stuffs ;-)
[11:52:59] <OmniMancer> don't do that in scheme it has no defined order of eval for func args :P
[11:53:06] <Teknomancer> and a[i] = i++
[11:53:10] <Teknomancer> B_DONT_DO_THAT
[11:53:40] <OmniMancer> sizeof(char) = 1 but that means that 1 in the sizeof is no longer a byte if chars are not 8 bits wide
[11:54:18] <Teknomancer> it's simple, sizeof(char) = 1 , even if char is > 8 bits
[11:54:32] <Teknomancer> a sizeof(char) could be sizeof(int) for all we care
[11:54:51] <OmniMancer> yes sizeof is units of char
[11:59:49] <phoudoin> Nope: "The sizeof operator yields the size (in bytes) of its operand", C99, §6.5.3.4.2
[11:59:52] <ali3n0> any arch you know is not using 8bits for a char?
[12:00:09] <Duggan> ok, besides the fact I'm a complete damn idiot, can somebody please explain why I'm getting: passing `char * (**)()' as argument 4 of `get_image_symbol(long int, const char *, long int, void **)'?
[12:00:31] <phoudoin> ali3n0: some old arch have minimum memory size constraints, where CHAR_BIT is > 8 indeed.
[12:00:32] <Duggan> I'm defining my function pointer as: 	char* (*fn)();
[12:00:36] <ali3n0> what the hell is **?? oh my god
[12:00:56] <Teknomancer> ** is pointer to a pointer
[12:01:07] <ali3n0> ... I guess is very handy ...
[12:01:08] <Duggan> and my call looks like:	get_image_symbol(addon, "GetDescription", B_SYMBOL_TYPE_TEXT, &fn);
[12:01:23] <ali3n0> and I guess a book explains it better eeheh
[12:01:33] <phoudoin> Very odd. Still, only the first 8 bits are actually used, even if 32 bits as used because the hardware can't do otherwise.
[12:01:38] <Teknomancer> ali3n0: yes there are arch. that have > 8 bits for char
[12:02:33] <phoudoin> Duggan: your argument should be passed as &fn
[12:02:47] <Duggan> phoudoin I'm not?
[12:03:11] <phoudoin> I dunno, I don't have your code in front of me! ;-)
[12:03:16] <Duggan> I just posted it
[12:03:30] <phoudoin> Sorry, lag, got it now
[12:03:42] <OmniMancer> it must be passed as funcname
[12:03:46] <OmniMancer> no &
[12:04:04] <phoudoin> He's right, and I'm stupid.
[12:04:10] <OmniMancer> function names are implicitly converted to function pointers
[12:04:13] <Duggan> OmniMancer, I get passing `char * (*)()' as argument 4 of `get_image_symbol(long int, const char *, long int, void **)'
[12:04:16] <phoudoin> Today. Only today. Tomorrow will be better.
[12:04:24] <OmniMancer> ah
[12:04:35] <OmniMancer> must cast to void** :P
[12:04:37] <phoudoin> Still, sizeof unit is byte :p
[12:04:55] <OmniMancer> no sizeof unit is char
[12:05:07] <OmniMancer> you must give it a pointer to a void pointer
[12:05:13] <OmniMancer> it will put a voidpointer there
[12:05:24] <OmniMancer> that will then be castable to a function pointer
[12:05:30] <OmniMancer> even though this cast is unsafe
[12:05:36] <phoudoin> "The sizeof operator yields the size (in bytes) of its operand", §6.5.3.4.2, C99 spec.
[12:05:48] <gluon> l_n: the atheros issue isn't solved yet in fbsd :( and it also affects haiku
[12:05:57] <gluon> it's an upstream issue
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[12:06:03] <phoudoin> gluon: which issue already?
[12:06:45] <Teknomancer> C99 section 6.5.3.4 The sizeof operator yields the size (in bytes) of its operand, which may be an expression or the parenthesized name of a type
[12:06:46] <gluon> some atheros wireless cards will hang the connection from time to time (a few minutes to seconds)
[12:06:57] <gluon> and then get back
[12:07:11] <gluon> it's a known issue in fbsb
[12:07:17] <Teknomancer> When applied to an operand that has type char, unsigned char, or signed char, (or a qualified version thereof) the result is 1.
[12:07:41] <Teknomancer> so that is clear
[12:08:05] <ali3n0> Teknomancer, any book to suggest btw?
[12:08:15] <Teknomancer> it doesn't matter if the arch has >= 8 bits for char, the spec defines the sizeof char
[12:08:18] <Teknomancer> ali3n0: K&R
[12:09:06] <OmniMancer> Teknomancer: the spec never defines bytes though does it?
[12:09:08] <ali3n0> ok, the bible. But for c++?
[12:10:03] <Teknomancer> it does in the following way
[12:10:04] <Teknomancer> addressable unit of data storage large enough to hold any member of the basic character
[12:10:07] <Teknomancer> set of the execution environment
[12:10:35] <Teknomancer> so essentially the byte is a contiguous sequence of bits which are implementation defined
[12:10:51] <Teknomancer> C doesn't give a damn about what that may be
[12:10:55] <Teknomancer> as in how many bits
[12:11:16] <Teknomancer> it's upto the conforming implementation to ensure it follows the spec.
[12:12:01] <Teknomancer> Lunch, be back in a few.
[12:12:06] <marshan> Lunch :P
[12:12:10] <OmniMancer> effectively it says a byte is a char size thing :P
[12:12:19] <OmniMancer> it could be 1024bits if you liked
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[12:13:34] <Teknomancer> the spec defines a character as any bit representation that may fit in a byte
[12:13:37] <Teknomancer> bbkl
[12:13:49] <phoudoin> Teknomancer: yep.
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[12:17:00] <OmniMancer> so lets make a system with 2^10*3bits chars
[12:18:31] <idefix_xifedi> how would int8 be defined then?
[12:19:16] <OmniMancer> it could only be defined by the compiler, bypassing the standard types :P
[12:22:54] <dru345> what's haiku's solution for the fragile base class? is it just versioning of libraries?
[12:23:29] <OmniMancer> it doesn't have one
[12:24:10] <OmniMancer> thus no significant changes to the BeAPI can be realised without either complete departure or passing of R1 when bakcward compatability is not important anymore
[12:24:25] <dru345> oy vey
[12:26:57] <Duggan> what is TYPE= supposed to say if I'm compiling an image?
[12:27:45] <Duggan> because all of a sudden now its complaining that it can't find main and it didn't do that before :/
[12:28:28] <Duggan> or if it did I thought it didn't
[12:28:43] <tqh> the headers reserve a few functions in headers to be able to postpone a bit fbc when adding new functions iirc.
[12:30:01] <OmniMancer> Duggan: is this C or C++?
[12:30:28] <Duggan> the image is effectively c, though there will be c++ involved at a later date
[12:30:32] <Duggan> though none of it should be visible
[12:30:32] <OmniMancer> tqh: that still means you can't do anything that BeOS R5 didn't
[12:31:04] <tqh> you can add a few new functions I think, but changing existing one can't be done.
[12:32:02] <Duggan> I'm just trying to figure out why its wanting a main function and how I can turn that off
[12:33:43] <OmniMancer> actually function shouldn't bother FBC
[12:33:49] <OmniMancer> its data members that do that
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[12:35:05] <tqh> i don't remember details but I think it's for virtual functions. Probably was described in a Be Newsletter.
[12:35:51] <OmniMancer> ah yes virtual function would anger the FBC since it would change the layout of the virtual table
[12:37:50] <dru345> virtual table :/
[12:37:54] <tqh> yep
[12:38:46] <dru345> there's no object model, no late binding, no use of an IDL, just cold C++ :P
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[12:40:03] <OmniMancer> virtual table being the table of pointers that is used for virtual functions
[12:40:12] <OmniMancer> objective C is  able to be free from the FBC problem
[12:40:40] <dru345> but we're not using objective C :P
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[12:41:33] <tqh> luckily :)
[12:41:51] <OmniMancer> we could use objective-C++
[12:41:54] <OmniMancer> or self
[12:41:59] <OmniMancer> I think self would be nice
[12:42:13] <tqh> how's D?
[12:42:23] <OmniMancer> think it still suffers from it
[12:42:44] <OmniMancer> problem is that queries ro stuff in base classes must be indirected to make it safe but that makes it slower
[12:43:41] <Duggan> anybody?
[12:43:59] <dru345> Duggan?
[12:47:33] <dru345> I was reading a bit about COM and the virtual page table it uses, plus its limits to using languages that can call C functions via pointers and so forth and it got me wondering about Haiku.
[12:47:49] <OmniMancer> you can make a COM like interface
[12:47:52] <OmniMancer> but it slows stuff
[12:50:53] <tqh> if you want to read some goof stuff on virtual tables and c++ function pointers I recommend http://www.codeproject.com/KB/cpp/FastDelegate.aspx
[12:51:02] <tqh> good
[12:51:18] <dru345> ty
[12:51:22] <tqh> it's hackery though.
[12:51:46] <dru345> i don't doubt it :P
[12:54:03] <Duggan> I hate to sound like a persistent ass, but for whatever reason gcc is telling me that it cant find a main function in what is supposed to be an add-on
[12:54:19] <Duggan> can someone please point me toward a resource that can be of assistance?
[12:54:54] <tqh> I think you need to pass some flags when compiling, Bebook should probably have some info
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[12:56:53] <Duggan> all I see on the topic is the page "Images" in the kernel kit
[12:57:12] <Duggan> and I see no reference there on any compiler flags
[12:57:20] <Duggan> not that they're not there, but I can't find them if they are
[12:57:44] <OmniMancer> Duggan: build a shared object
[12:57:46] <Duggan> I'm using paladin so I figure there may be a problem with the makefile
[12:57:55] <Duggan> OmniMancer how?
[12:58:11] <Duggan> thats kind of exactly what i'm trying to do
[12:58:17] <Duggan> if you can tell me how to, I would appreciate it
[12:58:34] <Duggan> or give me a link to information that will help me
[13:00:19] <OmniMancer> put -shared on link line and build with -c paladin should have a shared library type project though
[13:00:47] <Duggan> it does, that doesn't mean there aren't bugs
[13:00:55] <Duggan> and it sounds to me like that is the most likely culprit
[13:01:40] <tqh> Duggan, I think this is the info in BeBook: http://cvincent.pagesperso-orange.fr/bebook/The%20Kernel%20Kit/ImageConcepts.html#Loading_an_Add-on_Image
[13:01:57] <tqh> not the #blabla part though.
[13:03:03] <tqh> doesn't mention the compiler flags though.
[13:03:55] <Duggan> tqh exactly :/
[13:04:46] <Duggan> OmniMancer I think it worked better, but it compiled what tracker is seeing as an application
[13:04:53] <Duggan> not that that is incorrect....
[13:04:57] <Duggan> I don't know
[13:05:04] <Duggan> my program still doesn't work though :/
[13:06:06] <mmadia> mawst : http://www.haiku-inc.org/logo-design-details.html
[13:06:27] <tqh> Duggan, one flag is -nostart iirc
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[13:09:56] <Duggan> I ran:
[13:10:09] <Duggan> gcc main.cpp -c -nostart
[13:10:12] <Duggan> then I ran:
[13:10:43] <Duggan> ld main.o /blah/blah/blah/libroot.so
[13:10:48] <Duggan> is that kind of right?
[13:11:08] <OmniMancer> Duggan: compile to .o with -c
[13:11:17] <OmniMancer> then link with gcc with -shared
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[13:13:30] <Duggan> brb
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[13:23:25] <Duggan> back sorry
[13:23:47] <Duggan> OmniMancer I'm an idiot, if you could dumb it down for me just a little and explain what you mean by that...
[13:23:58] <Duggan> give me a second and I'll try to post some code if that helps
[13:25:18] <OmniMancer> compile all files with the -c in the command line as if to make a library
[13:25:24] <OmniMancer> then when linking specify -shared
[13:25:57] <dru345> like this Duggan: gcc -c hello.c
[13:26:15] <dru345> then gcc hello.o -o hello
[13:26:27] <dru345> or. not the 2nd one :P
[13:26:41] <Duggan> http://haiku.pastebin.org/427786
[13:26:51] <Duggan> only "here" is printed before I get a segfault
[13:26:55] <Duggan> let me try to compile it one more time
[13:27:05] <phoudoin> ld hello.o -shared MyFirstAddOn
[13:27:25] <dru345> thanks phoudoin  :P
[13:27:42] <phoudoin> or use the makefile-engine, very handy.
[13:29:16] <Duggan> ld main.o -shared xyz gives me "xyz: no such file or directory"
[13:30:00] <OmniMancer> gcc -shared .ofiles -o file.so
[13:30:01] <Duggan> phoudoin I started with a makefile and dropped it because it wasn't working either
[13:30:08] <Duggan> or nobody could tell me how to fix it
[13:30:42] <phoudoin> or want to :p
[13:31:20] <phoudoin> Give a look at /boot/develop/etc/makefile sample
[13:31:45] <phoudoin> Use TYPE=SHARED for an add-on or a classic shared library
[13:31:50] <phoudoin> (that's the same)
[13:31:51] <Duggan> again: only "here" is printed before a segfault
[13:32:10] <Duggan> phoudoin I asked that question specifically earlier :/
[13:33:09] <phoudoin> Sorry, miss that.
[13:33:11] <Duggan> and it still says I'm missing a main function
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[13:34:10] <Teknomancer> re
[13:34:23] <dru345> hello Disreali
[13:34:27] <phoudoin> get_image_symbol() could fail, do you add some check on its return value?
[13:34:44] <phoudoin> I bet fn == NULL at "here" time.
[13:34:44] <Disreali> morning dru345
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[13:36:14] <phoudoin> Funny, my r37693's Deskbar don't load installed replicants at reboot (or relaunch).
[13:36:31] <Duggan> phoudoin ok maybe thats got something to do with it... how do I determine what the return code means?
[13:36:34] <phoudoin> By funny, I mean it's annoying, but in a fun way.
[13:36:46] <Duggan> and can you tell me by looking at it what the problem might be?
[13:37:32] <Teknomancer> hm, i need to setup multi user gnu screen sharing for thsi irc session
[13:38:36] <Duggan> http://haiku.pastebin.org/427786
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[13:39:44] <phoudoin> Duggan: well, it should returns B_OK, otherwise fn value is not valid.
[13:40:24] <phoudoin> Do you check too the load_add_on() return status?
[13:40:36] <phoudoin> Maybe your add-on is not even loaded.
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[13:41:02] <Teknomancer> sweet, got it working
[13:41:07] <Teknomancer> yay :P
[13:42:06] <phoudoin> welcome in wide screen IRC experience, Teknomancer
[13:42:16] <phoudoin> multi-wide screens
[13:42:29] <Teknomancer> actually my screen session is running on my laptop
[13:42:32] <Teknomancer> so it's not wide :/
[13:42:38] <Teknomancer> this one is 24" screen :)
[13:43:01] <Teknomancer> but anyway, irssi+screen isn't so bad
[13:43:10] <jamy> hi people! anyone know what license use opentracker?
[13:43:14] <phoudoin> multi-size-ratios screens, then
[13:43:19] <Duggan> addon appears to be ok
[13:43:26] <Teknomancer> it's just kind of stupid that i need to open a seperate terminal for nicklist
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[13:43:56] <phoudoin> Duggan: load_add_on() returns a valid image_id (> 0)
[13:45:40] <phoudoin> ?
[13:45:55] <Duggan> ok the error is B_BAD_IMAGE
[13:46:27] <Duggan> sorry phoudoin thats what was taking me so long
[13:47:32] <Duggan> get_image_symbol returns B_BAD_IMAGE
[13:47:46] <Duggan> load_add_on does appear to return a valid image_id
[13:48:45] <Duggan> ok I take that back hold on
[13:49:13] <phoudoin> did you place your add-on under an "add-ons" folder relative to your executable?
[13:49:32] <Duggan> yes
[13:50:09] <Duggan> I'll move it... one second
[13:50:16] <Teknomancer> brb
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[13:50:39] <phoudoin> Duggan: I should have a lunch now or no lunch at all. Be back later.
[13:50:51] <Duggan> l8r
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[13:55:54] <Xeon3D> DaaT, hi.
[13:58:38] <DaaT> hi Xeon3D
[13:58:44] <DaaT> how's it going?
[13:58:47] <Teknomancer> back
[13:58:50] * Teknomancer poits DaaT
[13:58:59] <Teknomancer> :)
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[13:59:06] <Teknomancer> DaaT: you're in england now right?
[13:59:31] <DaaT> yes
[13:59:42] * DaaT poits back at Teknomancer  :P
[13:59:43] <Teknomancer> tiz rainin like england here
[13:59:52] <DaaT> ah but it's sunny here at the moment
[14:00:16] <Teknomancer> we had some 34+ days here this summer
[14:00:22] <DaaT> though yesterday morning I did get soaking wet when I was out and it rained for like 5 or 10mns
[14:00:31] <DaaT> Teknomancer , here it's around 20
[14:00:51] <DaaT> in Portugal they've  been having 40+ temps ( Xeon3D can confirm it) :)
[14:00:54] <Teknomancer> now it's 16 C here
[14:01:07] <Teknomancer> in India we have 45 C :) I can confirm it :P
[14:01:11] <Xeon3D> not here they haven't but in the center / north yeah.
[14:01:23] <Teknomancer> my mom was in New delhi a week back when it was some 45 C
[14:01:58] <Teknomancer> 36+ is outside Apple's operating temp
[14:01:59] <Teknomancer> :P
[14:02:22] <DaaT> for me anything over 30C is too much already
[14:02:32] <DaaT> Xeon3D, algarve, right?
[14:02:37] <Teknomancer> wow, thunder and lightning.. not often seen that here in germany
[14:02:45] <Teknomancer> it's like a "light" monsoon ;)
[14:03:08] <DaaT> i love thunderstorms
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[14:03:36] <Teknomancer> yep
[14:04:16] <Xeon3D> DaaT, yeah
[14:04:24] <Xeon3D> it's been awfully cool here. D:
[14:04:43] <Teknomancer> how cold?
[14:05:04] <DaaT> :P
[14:05:51] <DaaT> Teknomancer, where he is, maybe around 30C
[14:06:07] <DaaT> from what I read on the interwebs these last days
[14:06:20] <mmu_screen> hmm http://miniupnp.free.fr/
[14:06:20] <DaaT> btw, new poll over at ICO! (finally!!!)
[14:06:22] <DaaT> :P
[14:07:48] * DaaT pets mmu_screen
[14:10:20] <Teknomancer> hey mmu_screen
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[14:10:40] <Teknomancer> Xeon3D is in portugal?
[14:10:45] <Xeon3D> unfortunately
[14:11:46] <Xeon3D> Why do u ask Teknomancer ?
[14:12:06] <Teknomancer> since DaaT mentioned 30C might be considered cool there
[14:12:12] <Teknomancer> with recent temperatures
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[14:13:34] <DaaT> Xeon3D, move!
[14:13:35] <DaaT> :)
[14:14:02] <Teknomancer> annamayad annamayan athavaa chaitanyam yeva chaitanyaat? :P
[14:14:08] <mmu_screen> DaaT: sheep ?
[14:14:30] <Xeon3D> I'm in the south, where it normally is hot as hell... and it's 26ºC
[14:14:33] <DaaT> mmu_screen, yes please :P
[14:14:44] <Xeon3D> DaaT, will do in 2 to 3 years.
[14:14:49] <Teknomancer> iscomputeron.com hasn't been updated in a while
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[14:15:28] <DaaT> Xeon3D where to? any plans?
[14:15:34] <DaaT> Teknomancer, it has today ;)
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[14:15:41] <Teknomancer> oh ok
[14:16:10] <DaaT> but yeah, was a long time, sorry
[14:17:00] <Teknomancer> no problem, i don't check it everyday :P
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[14:17:19] <DaaT> :)
[14:18:56] <mmu_screen> hmm wondering which firewall to port to Haiku
[14:18:59] <mmu_screen> pf or ipfw
[14:19:15] <surrounder> pf <3
[14:19:44] <mmu_screen> yeah but we have a freebsd compat layer
[14:20:41] <surrounder> ah, didn't know ipfw yet actually, looks fine too
[14:20:54] <humdinger> Anyone can explain what the "Escape search text" setting in TextSearch is about?
[14:21:16] 
[14:21:25] 
[14:21:29] <lorglas> y
[14:21:50] <lorglas> can anybody help me
[14:22:18] <surrounder> strange, what OS are you on ?
[14:22:26] <lorglas> haiku alpha 2
[14:24:04] <mmadia> humdinger : maybe it's to treat   '   as an actual quote  or * not as wildcard in the grep command ?
[14:24:14] <Xeon3D> DaaT, I have no idea. Suggest?
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[14:24:42] <surrounder> lorglas: what are those characters after dd and zero ?
[14:24:59] <surrounder> Kernel86: dd if=/dev/zero of=/boot/home/test bs=1024 count=100
[14:25:02] <surrounder> uh
[14:25:07] <surrounder> Kernel86: tabfail, sorry
[14:25:09] <surrounder> lorglas: that is
[14:25:41] <lorglas> thanks
[14:26:57] <humdinger> mmadia: Even without the escape setting, e.g. "*" isn't considered a wildcard.
[14:27:11] <humdinger> outpu "There was a problem running grep"
[14:28:40] <DaaT> Xeon3D, nope, sorry
[14:28:44] <DaaT> well, UK :P
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[14:28:49] <DaaT> but I'm here... so... no
[14:28:51] <DaaT> :)
[14:28:56] <DaaT> netherlands is cool
[14:29:03] <Xeon3D> haha the UK is not big enough for 2 Tugas?
[14:29:04] <Xeon3D> lol
[14:29:12] <Xeon3D> Can't visit the netherlands.
[14:29:29] <Xeon3D> I would *live* in some coffeeshops :P
[14:29:37] <DaaT> well, get a job in one ;)
[14:29:47] <DaaT> and amsterdam's awesome, you have to visit
[14:29:53] <surrounder> fuck amsterdam
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[14:30:01] <surrounder> long live the netherlands though
[14:30:17] <DaaT> surrounder, I take it you don't like amsterdam much? :)
[14:30:20] <Xeon3D> I think if I move, it'll be to an eastern european country :)
[14:30:25] <surrounder> DaaT: not really
[14:30:38] <surrounder> it's just an overrated city imho
[14:30:43] <DaaT> Xeon3D, for the cold? or the women?
[14:30:50] <Xeon3D> haha
[14:30:52] <Xeon3D> both actually
[14:30:56] <DaaT> surrounder, to each its own :)
[14:31:02] <surrounder> it's a good buffer for drugtourists though, they never get out of amsterdam when they are here in .nl
[14:31:11] <DaaT> surrounder lol
[14:31:37] <Xeon3D> (btw I was joking. I don't do drugs... at least not anymore)
[14:31:40] <DaaT> Xeon3D, friend of mine visited Poland. He reeeeaaaally liked the women
[14:31:42] <surrounder> I do
[14:32:07] <Xeon3D> DaaT, that was my 1st thought...
[14:32:13] <DaaT> :D
[14:32:16] <Xeon3D> Czech Republic was next.
[14:32:22] <DaaT> ah, czech is cool
[14:32:28] <surrounder> polish girls are hawt indeed
[14:32:32] <DaaT> i actually had a job offer there
[14:32:41] <Xeon3D> but they all have strange namas :D
[14:32:46] <surrounder> hehe
[14:32:49] <Xeon3D> *names
[14:32:54] <DaaT> :)
[14:33:37] <DaaT> ok, lunch time
[14:33:38] <DaaT> bbiab
[14:33:40] <Xeon3D> and I have that little problem of cat /dev/xeon3d/brain/polish returning ""
[14:33:45] <surrounder> DaaT: bon appetit
[14:33:52] <Xeon3D> DaaT, bom apetite
[14:33:53] <Xeon3D> :)
[14:33:56] <DaaT> unless I go all Talking Heads and start "burning down the house"
[14:34:01] <DaaT> merci and obrigado :)
[14:34:16] <surrounder> :)
[14:37:00] <lorglas> second question: i use mkfs to make a bfs image from the first example, but i think i do anything wrong, because i get the kernel debugger
[14:37:39] <lorglas> i type mkfs "boot/home/test"
[14:43:00] <OmniMancer> mkfs probably wants a partition or something
[14:44:39] <lorglas> earlier gives mkbfs, but i not found it in alpha 2
[14:45:26] <OmniMancer> I don't know the answer :P
[14:46:23] <mmadia>  dd if=/dev/zero of=test bs=1M count=10 ; sync ;  mkfs -t bfs test  ; echo 'works for me'
[14:46:47] <OmniMancer> needs a file of nonzero size that exists probably
[14:46:51] <OmniMancer> and a type
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[14:47:45] <lorglas> great thanks, it works
[14:48:20] <mmadia> lorglas : when you `open test`  does tracker show the mounted image with that blankpaper icon?
[14:49:05] <Xeon3D> Salaries vary between the regions: the median wage in the capital city Warsaw was 4,600 PLN (1,200 euro or 2,000 US dollars) while in Białystok it was only 2,400 PLN (670 euro or 1,000 US dollars).
[14:49:11] <mmu_screen> btw, it'd be interesting to be present at an IETF PlugFest once IPv6 works :p http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/core/trac/wiki/PlugFest
[14:49:17] <Xeon3D> damn... here the medium wage is ~600 eur...
[14:50:01] <lorglas> mmadia: blank paper, after a doubleclick the icon looks like a brown container
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[14:51:35] <phoudoin> lorglas: if you get a KDL running a userland command, mkfs or not, you should report a bug.
[14:51:46] <jamy> anybody know how was cost licensing disk Beos 5?
[14:52:35] <phoudoin> I can't remember
[14:53:00] <jamy> more than 200$?
[14:53:11] <phoudoin> between $40 and $90.
[14:53:15] <phoudoin> Nope.
[14:53:45] <phoudoin> Plus BeOS R5 PE make this pratically free, except for the missing few components
[14:54:02] <phoudoin> (media codec like MP3 encoder...)
[14:54:17] <jamy> i know this
[14:55:09] <jamy> i never intresting how cost proprietary software :)
[14:55:52] <jamy> its not many!
[14:56:03] <phoudoin> Why the cost question?
[14:57:06] <jamy> i am only bored
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[15:00:58] <jamy> i think if Be inc make the beos opensource instead give the BeOS R5 PE then she will be live now (i mean Be inc)
[15:01:38] <mmadia> Be, Inc. is dead. Long live Haiku, Inc.
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[15:03:33] <DaaT> re
[15:04:27] <michaelvo> hi Daat!
[15:04:32] <jamy> dead dead. i think we must respect Be inc. Without she haiku not was born
[15:04:41] <marshan> don't call it a "she"
[15:04:42] <marshan> :P
[15:04:45] <DaaT> hi michaelvo
[15:05:15] <jamy> she mother of haiku! :)
[15:05:17] <OmniMancer> corporations are genderless :P
[15:05:41] <OmniMancer> it was the place where the people who made BeOS worked :P
[15:07:38] <jamy> intresting, the developers of beos still use she...?
[15:08:09] <lorglas> mmadia: when i use a blank in my file name, is dosen't work dd if=/dev/zero of="test lll" bs=1M count=10 ; sync ;  mkfs -qt bfs "test lll"  ; echo 'works for me'
[15:09:10] <jamy> dn't use space  symbol! :p
[15:09:26] <mmadia> what doesn't work, lorglas ?
[15:09:59] <lorglas> it doesn't get an bfs image
[15:10:48] <mmadia> works here. :|
[15:10:55] <lorglas> crazy
[15:11:58] <jamy> lorglas: the string: "dd if=/dev/zero of="test lll" bs=1M count=10 ;" nead to run only first
[15:12:00] <lorglas> when i double click, the icon dont change
[15:13:18] <jamy> second time you nead only : "mkfs -qt bfs "test lll" "
[15:13:44] <mmadia> ooh, i see what you mean lorglas.    i was using  `open "test lll"`
[15:13:52] <lorglas> ok
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[15:14:05] <jamy> you only lost time
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[15:16:41] <lorglas> jamy: why
[15:18:57] <jamy> the command "dd if=/dev/zero of="test lll" bs=1M count=10" fill file zero's bites. When you do this second time you only lost time
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[15:19:16] <OmniMancer> it makes a file that has space ot make the FS in
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[15:21:43] <jamy> i think he repeat ("dd if=/dev/zero of="test lll" bs=1M count=10 ; sync ; mkfs -qt bfs "test lll" ; echo 'works for me") every time
[15:22:27] <lorglas> ok
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[15:29:22] <OmniMancer> night
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[15:39:17] * michaelvo listening the new Soilwork album - The Panic Broadcast
[15:41:03] <dru345> 'night o/
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[16:33:31] <intranut> hi
[16:33:42] <Teknomancer> hi
[16:35:49] <Xeon3D> hi
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[16:36:20] <marshan> hi
[16:36:30] <phoudoin> hi Anarchos
[16:37:37] <Xeon3D> Teknomancer, why hi with your two nicks :/
[16:37:40] <Xeon3D> lol
[16:38:14] <intranut> i have installed a version of nightly build into hdd and i am unable to connect to internet which is best working with webpositive iso
[16:39:19] <intranut> i went to google also from qemu but after installing i am unable to  go to internet
[16:40:38] <Xeon3D> what network card do you have intranut ?
[16:41:04] <intranut> 8139
[16:41:32] <Xeon3D> hmmm I had the impression those worked...
[16:41:50] <Xeon3D> but I guess not all rev's do.
[16:41:54] <intranut> actually i have downloaded iso and nightlybuild too
[16:42:22] <intranut> i am confused which one i have installed
[16:42:30] <Teknomancer> Xeon3D: I was hoping for a "hi-train" :P
[16:42:43] <Xeon3D> I had my "c-c-c-combo-breaker" ready.
[16:42:51] <Teknomancer> damnit! :P
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[16:52:42] <phoudoin> Manquerait pas un espace là?
[16:52:56] <phoudoin> Ah non.
[16:54:17] <stpere> hi phoudoin
[16:54:18] <stpere> :)
[16:54:32] <phoudoin> hi stpere
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[16:57:25] <mmadia> phoudoin : http://dev.haiku-os.org/attachment/ticket/6385/possible-HAIKU-compatible-logos-2b.png
[17:02:13] <gluon> does anyone know how can I contact colin?
[17:02:31] <gluon> is he still a developer?
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[17:03:34] <gluon> he owns some wifi related bugs
[17:03:54] <gluon> but maybe alex will inherit those
[17:04:54] <mmadia> you can login and check http://www.haiku-os.org to see if he enabled the contact form.
[17:05:36] <tqh> he is probably just busy with life (and maybe a bit tired of everyone wanting wifi ;) )
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[17:08:09] <DaaT> wifi? who wanted wifi? I know _I_ never once bugged Colin about it...
[17:08:11] <DaaT> *whistles*
[17:10:10] <tqh> learn to code :P
[17:10:36] <helf> :p
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[17:11:07] <DaaT> i'm an old man
[17:11:13] <DaaT> can't learn new things
[17:11:14] <DaaT> :P
[17:11:34] <tqh> anyway if Axel goes after the wifi bounty I guess Colin can relax.
[17:11:39] <stpere> DaaT: are you ready to be "recycled" then?
[17:12:00] <DaaT> tqh, guess so
[17:12:16] <DaaT> stpere, depends on what you mean by "recycled" :)
[17:13:06] <stpere> think Matrix
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[17:13:37] <DaaT> ouch... no thanks
[17:13:39] <DaaT> :)
[17:14:00] <tqh> ah lederhosen...
[17:14:33] <DaaT> :P
[17:15:13] <DaaT> dang... sheep still in 2nd place
[17:15:57] <tqh> apparently I'm the only one for lederhosen.
[17:16:14] <DaaT> you freak...
[17:16:15] <DaaT> :D
[17:16:19] <DaaT> weirdo!
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[17:16:53] <tqh> you need those in the alps, in the alps!
[17:18:04] <DaaT> those are a few of your favorite things?
[17:19:05] <tqh> I've yet to try a pair of lederhosen? But you don't need more sheep and bga's basement is just fine as is.
[17:19:28] <tqh> ? -> .
[17:19:33] <DaaT> you can never have too many sheep
[17:19:37] <DaaT> tsk tsk
[17:19:42] <phoudoin> stpere: I was expecting "think Soylent Green"...
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[17:20:11] <ali3n0> coming back home I was thinking to you pointer-freaks :-P question: where is kept the variable's "type" information? if sizeof(char) is 1, then can't be inside that byte, right?
[17:20:21] <tqh> btw there were a few missing at the youth hostel at last years BeGeistert.
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[17:21:13] <stpere> ali3n0: having only the raw data, you couldn't tell exactly what type that variable is
[17:21:20] <stpere> well, you could recognize it
[17:21:23] <phoudoin> ali3n0: sizeof() is computed at compile time, by the compiler, who knows everything about your code, type and size included.
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[17:21:37] <DaaT> tqh, a few what? sheep?
[17:21:55] <tqh> yes, that's what I heard...
[17:21:57] <DaaT> phoudoin, Soylent Green IS PEOPLE!!
[17:22:03] <DaaT> tqh, don't know what you're talking about
[17:22:20] <ali3n0> so the compiler keeps for itself a slice of stack to keep trace of that
[17:22:30] <phoudoin> DaaT: same goes for Matrix...
[17:22:33] <DaaT> they were all there when I left last autumn's edition
[17:22:48] <tqh> ah
[17:23:03] <DaaT> phoudoin, true true
[17:23:38] <phoudoin> ali3n0: no, it doesn't need to. To replace sizeof() with the actual size, he only needs to look at the type in his variables table, and get the type byte size. At compile time.
[17:23:48] <DaaT> tqh, looking into attending the next, but don't know if I'll make it
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[17:24:15] <DaaT> are you going?
[17:24:22] <ali3n0> phoudoin,  so in the stack there's a table to keep trace of these bindings?
[17:24:36] <tqh> I'll probably go.
[17:24:43] <DaaT> cool
[17:25:16] <DaaT> cheapest flight I can find is around £115.. damn so called low cost airlines!
[17:25:53] <tqh> I've moved to Stockholm, so now I just need one flight making it easier to go.
[17:26:21] <DaaT> nice
[17:27:05] <DaaT> on thursday there's a flight for £4.99... on friday... £49.99 (no flights saturday).... grrrrrrrrrrrr
[17:27:19] <tqh> ah
[17:27:34] <DaaT> mmmmmmmm..£ 101 now..
[17:27:47] <DaaT> eh.. base fare £50.. taxes... another £50
[17:28:01] <DaaT> usually you pay more taxes than for the fare itself
[17:31:27] <phoudoin> ali3n0: no, not in your program, not at (your program's) runtime.
[17:31:52] <ali3n0> mmm... fascinating
[17:32:02] <phoudoin> But the compiler, another program, surely build such kind of table somewhere during his compilation.
[17:32:32] <phoudoin> for instance: sizeof(int)
[17:33:49] <phoudoin> when the compiler encounter this sizeof, it looks at the expression within, find a scalair type (int), lookup for its byte size on this machine (or target if cross-compiling) and find on 32bits the value 4.
[17:34:18] <phoudoin> the whole sizeof(int) is then replaced by 4 at compile time.
[17:34:30] <phoudoin> there is no "function" sizeof().
[17:34:46] <phoudoin> no execution of a function sizeof() at run time.
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[17:35:55] <ali3n0> phoudoin, I get it now
[17:35:55] <phoudoin> for sizeof(some_pointer*) the same mecanism apply. char array[20] -> sizeof(array) is replaced by 20 at *compile* time
[17:36:19] <ali3n0> by the way, what could be the reason of ethernet connection dropping after a while?
[17:36:22] <phoudoin> For C++, there is runtime typing, but that's another storry.
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[17:36:37] <ali3n0> phoudoin, I'll get there eventually ;)
[17:36:38] <phoudoin> ali3n0: you didn't pay your ISP? :-)
[17:36:50] <ali3n0> eheh, not this box, my haiku testing laptop
[17:37:00] <ali3n0> it was fine, now I can't ping it anymore
[17:37:13] <ali3n0> syslog not helping much
[17:37:21] * phoudoin notice that he wrote storry, a weird mix between sorry and story. Regarding C++ runtime typing, it make sense though ;-)
[17:37:44] <ali3n0> so I'll be sorry to have asked? :-)
[17:37:52] <phoudoin> which /dev/net/* driver already? Still rtl8169 ?
[17:38:00] <ali3n0> y
[17:39:44] <ali3n0> not even if I use static addressi
[17:39:55] <ali3n0> s/addressi/addresses
[17:40:50] * ali3n0 's rebooting
[17:41:27] <ali3n0> rebooting fixed it :-/
[17:42:50] <ali3n0> guys, I see man pages installed but no man executable. is it right?
[17:43:53] <helf> they had to make it politically correct. so its manandorwoman now for the man bin
[17:44:27] <ali3n0> man woman gives me segfault
[17:44:45] <helf> heh
[17:45:07] <ali3n0> weird though, seems I can reproduce the connection problem, maybe is related to sshd
[17:46:08] <ali3n0> ifconfig is fine, route is fine, nothing seems to change to me, but I get a "general system error" if I ping a known local ip for instance
[17:46:22] <phoudoin> ali3n0: I've the same issue.
[17:46:51] <phoudoin> Are you connected in gigabit ethernet or in fast ethernet ?
[17:47:00] <ali3n0> 10/100
[17:47:01] <phoudoin> I had the same issue.
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[17:47:59] <ali3n0> damn... I'll have to use 2 keyboard than :/
[17:48:36] <ali3n0> phoudoin, did you placed it on bugtrack?
[17:48:40] <Xeon3D> funny. every other os supports rtl8139 fine...
[17:48:43] <phoudoin> I don't remember how it disapear, or even when.
[17:48:46] <Xeon3D> even BeOS had issues with'em
[17:48:58] <phoudoin> there is several bug tickets regarding rtl8169, indeed.
[17:49:05] <ali3n0> ok
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[17:49:45] <phoudoin> We think interrupt are lost (or eat by some driver)
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[17:50:24] <marshan> That's bad :)
[17:50:30] <ali3n0> I'm running ping now, let's see how bad it goes
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[17:53:04] <DaaT> you run ping i'll run a shower
[17:53:04] <DaaT> bbiab
[17:56:45] <ali3n0> hope will not last as pinging here :-P
[17:58:04] <lorglas> cu
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[18:17:23] <ali3n0> phoudoin, reproduced, after a while ping brakes it too
[18:17:53] <mmu_screen> hmm btw, seems there is Santa Gift Bag in BePDF, isn't it only for personal use ?
[18:18:01] <mmu_screen> might need to be replaced
[18:18:25] <DaaT> back
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[18:19:00] <mmu_screen> front
[18:19:44] <DaaT> side
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[18:23:06] <DaaT> yay, sheep is tied for lead!!
[18:24:36] <mmu_screen> :)
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[18:26:10] <Teknomancer> hi Sir_Konrad
[18:26:30] <Sir_Konrad> yo Teknomancer
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[18:29:34] <stpere> can you confirm a bug for me?
[18:29:47] <stpere> open DataTranslations preflet
[18:30:19] <stpere> click on JPEG images, crash
[18:30:28] <stpere> I reproduce it 100% of the time here :)
[18:32:13] <DaaT> stpere, then stop clicking it!!
[18:32:15] <DaaT> no more crash
[18:32:16] <DaaT> :)
[18:32:30] <Teknomancer> lol
[18:32:38] <stpere> yeah, I had an intern with that mentality
[18:32:51] <stpere> he was putting those cases in "known issues"
[18:32:55] <stpere> rather than fixing it
[18:32:57] <stpere> :)
[18:33:12] <stpere> like.. "don't put ' in this field, it will crash"
[18:33:48] <mmu_screen> ouch
[18:34:08] <mmu_screen> I get transaction too large errors in syslog when deleting files
[18:34:12] <DaaT> stpere, "if I can't see it, it doesn't exist"
[18:34:24] <HaikuUser> I can't seem to get haiku compiled because of haiku_version_glue.o not seeming to be created. Can someone point me in the right direction for this?
[18:34:29] <stpere> yeah, it does exist and doesn't exist at the same time
[18:34:34] <DaaT> stpere :)
[18:34:51] <mmu_screen> HaikuUser: checked out from svn ?
[18:34:51] <stpere> quantic physic applied to code
[18:35:08] <DaaT> exactly
[18:35:21] <HaikuUser> yeah
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[18:38:29] <HaikuUser> any more suggestions?
[18:39:22] <mmu_screen> hmm who was working on VBox guest additions already ?
[18:39:28] <marshan> me :P
[18:39:49] <marshan> but I only got so far as loading the PCI driver
[18:40:00] <marshan> just bare-metal PCI skeleton, but working from a VM is cumbersome
[18:40:51] <Teknomancer> Too bad our approach to additions can't be ask hackish as vmware, vbox has a much nicer interface
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[18:43:20] <phoudoin> stpere: it don't crash here (r37693)
[18:43:37] <stpere> weird
[18:43:56] <stpere> I have 37797 here
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[18:44:16] <Teknomancer> gotta love regressions
[18:44:48] <stpere> gcc4 hybrid
[18:45:15] <Teknomancer> but gcc4 is not really recommended yet, is it?
[18:45:36] <Teknomancer> silly question: is it possible to compile Haiku apps on Linux and just upload it to a VM for testing?
[18:45:54] <Teknomancer> if that's the case, I can work much faster on the VBox additions
[18:46:00] <stpere> hmm
[18:46:27] <mmu_screen> Teknomancer: you should be able to cross compile yes
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[18:46:33] <mmu_screen> and use bfs_shell to add to the image
[18:46:38] <mmu_screen> or scp them from it
[18:46:44] <marshan> scp is easier
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[18:47:03] <marshan> mmu_screen, is there instructions for setting all of this up?
[18:47:09] <marshan> i.e. compilation
[18:47:54] <mmu_screen> no it really depends
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[18:51:38] <phoudoin> bye guys, time to go home
[18:51:57] <phoudoin> mmu_screen: could you contact laplace regarding santa gift bag?
[18:52:39] <phoudoin> mmu_screen: BePDF is not bundled officially with Haiku, it's an optional package, right?
[18:52:49] <phoudoin> anyway, time to go home.
[18:52:51] <phoudoin> bye.
[18:52:56] <marshan> bye phoudoin
[18:54:57] <DaaT> c ya
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[19:02:56] <DaaT> yay bought my first android app
[19:02:58] <DaaT> :P
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[19:10:35] <Teknomancer> they have SheepSaver for android?
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[19:11:34] <Teknomancer> my next phone will be an android one
[19:12:01] <Teknomancer> although all I really use it as is an Alarm clock and Calendar reminders
[19:12:11] <Teknomancer> 99.9% of the time
[19:13:13] <DaaT> Teknomancer, i never looked for "sheep" on the android market... mmmmmmmmmmmmmm... :P
[19:13:30] <Teknomancer> lol
[19:13:38] <Teknomancer> i'm not sure you really -want- to
[19:13:45] <Teknomancer> given android's reputation as the pr0n phone :P
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[19:14:09] <DaaT> it has that rep? didn't know
[19:14:31] <Teknomancer> nice try :P
[19:14:59] <DaaT> lol, honest
[19:15:38] <Teknomancer> the android GUI is all done by manufacturers right?
[19:15:48] <Teknomancer> I mean each phone vendor does their own version of the UI ?
[19:15:59] <Teknomancer> that'd kind of suck in helping me choose what to get
[19:16:14] <DaaT> nope
[19:16:19] <DaaT> well, in a way
[19:16:33] <DaaT> they make themes or shells
[19:16:40] <DaaT> like HTC with Sense for example
[19:16:43] <Teknomancer> hmm and is there always a default?
[19:17:02] <DaaT> there's a default yes, but with HTC phones you can't revert to that, you must use Sense
[19:17:10] <Teknomancer> like "Theme made by Google that is considered plain and safe for people who don't want a zillion colours and gradients in a tiny-ass screen" kind?
[19:17:13] <DaaT> unless of course you root your phone and install a vanilla ROM
[19:17:52] <DaaT> so while there is a vanilla theme and look, it depends on your phone and what you do with it (root or not), if you ever see it
[19:17:52] <Teknomancer> ah right
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[19:21:55] <CIA-53> humdinger * r37810 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/dstcheck.cpp: Small changes to strings.
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[19:23:17] <RQ> hi humdinger
[19:23:34] <humdinger> hey RQ
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[19:24:23] <RQ> sup
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[19:25:22] <humdinger> bloody media_addon_server stopped working once more... no nick notify... :(
[19:25:49] <RQ> what a pitty
[19:25:52] <RQ> :D
[19:26:00] <The123king> why is haiku-os down?
[19:26:24] <humdinger> it's n not.
[19:26:33] <The123king>  you sure?
[19:26:39] <humdinger> works here
[19:26:41] <The123king> haiku-os.org i mean
[19:26:51] <humdinger> yes
[19:27:06] <DaaT> works here as well
[19:27:13] <The123king> WebPositive spits out a "cannot resolve host name"
[19:27:38] <DaaT> try with the IP
[19:27:44] <The123king> or at least the index page does
[19:28:07] <DaaT> 188.40.89.175
[19:28:33] <stpere> 09:55 <@phoudoin> mmu_screen: could you contact laplace regarding santa gift bag?
[19:28:38] <stpere> doh
[19:28:47] <mmadia> That might be some bustage in networking.
[19:28:48] <stpere> stupid 3rd mouse button :P
[19:28:52] <The123king> that works....
[19:29:30] <The123king> it's fixed
[19:29:30] <mmadia> http://www.freelists.org/post/haiku-commits/r37794-in-haikutrunk-buildjam-headersposixnet-headersposixsys-headersprivatenet-srcaddonskernelnetworkdatalink-protocols,1
[19:30:25] <humdinger> collateral damages...
[19:40:45] <mmu_screen> Src/zsh --version
[19:40:48] <mmu_screen> zsh 4.3.10-dev-2 (i586-pc-haiku)
[19:41:31] <mmadia> am i going to need to learn zsh shell scripting now? :P
[19:42:31] <humdinger> Q: BMenu and BPopUpMenu's first "const char* name" parameter isn't visible in the GUI, right?
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[19:45:04] <humdinger> BeBook: "The name of the object becomes the initial label of the supermenu item that controls the menu and brings it to the screen."
[19:45:46] <humdinger> But actually, the menu gets filled with BMenuItem, which is the stuff you see in the GUI, right?
[19:46:37] <marshan> is BeBook == HaikuBook ;)
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[19:46:49] <humdinger> mostly.
[19:46:59] <marshan> yes, that's the problem perhaps? :)
[19:47:44] <Teknomancer> In Haiku they probably changed the behaviour, _or_ it's a genuine bug, probably the former since BMenuItem is very common and should've been spotted by now
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[20:14:28] <prizm> does Haku's alert command support piping like this?: fortune | alert
[20:16:16] <humdinger> prizm: nope, but this works: alert "`fortune`" "OK"
[20:16:58] <prizm> finally
[20:17:14] <prizm> it works nao
[20:17:14] <prizm> thx
[20:17:40] <humdinger> np
[20:18:16] <prizm> also, how would I get that command to run on startup?
[20:18:40] <humdinger> edit ~/config/boot/UserBootscript
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[20:19:25] <prizm> k
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[20:26:24] <mmu_screen> damn
[20:26:24] <mmu_screen> svnadmin: Copy source checksum mismatch on copy from 'haiku/trunk/3rdparty/mmu_man/themes/addons/DanoWindowDecorAddon.cpp'@33
[20:27:49] <CIA-53> mmadia * r37811 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/ (BuildSetup HaikuImage):
[20:27:49] <CIA-53> Increased the size of the default image. Upon first boot, less than 800 KiB was
[20:27:49] <CIA-53> available for a gcc2hybrid.
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[20:44:25] <mmu_screen> yay
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[20:58:00] <mmu_screen> ok, managed to import theme manager into another svn :)
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[21:06:14] <mmadia> *yawn*   http://dev.haiku-os.org/attachment/ticket/6385/examples-in-use.png
[21:07:22] <mmu_screen> bleah
[21:07:53] <mmu_screen> nice non-BeOS-blue marron bg
[21:08:26] <mmadia> yeah, the normal blue gets boring after a while :)
[21:09:27] <mmu_screen> exactly the same tint I repainted my toilet with earlier today :DDD
[21:10:23] * michaelvo finished Seven Kingdoms: Ancient Adversaries port.. Soon will arrive in Haikuware
[21:11:01] * michaelvo now listening Soilwork - Two Lifes Worth of Reckoning
[21:17:02] <MrSunshine__> oo axeld hard at work now? :)
[21:17:45] <MrSunshine__> i wonder if it will be as breaking as last time with the kernel =)
[21:17:54] <MrSunshine__> that is ... in a good way ... breaking "news" :P
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[21:23:24] <marc_smith> Is there any way I can turn dbb on panics off? ;)
[21:23:57] <marc_smith> they happen rarely, but I won't get any info from that anyway
[21:24:39] *** mmadia sets mode: -o mmadia
[21:25:35] <stpere> dbb?
[21:28:08] <marc_smith> debugger
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[21:29:58] <idefix_xifedi> marc_smith: you could try to uncomment the "#bluescreen false" in /boot/home/config/settings/kernel/kernel
[21:30:27] <idefix_xifedi> but it will still panic
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[21:31:44] <mmu_screen> they happen for a reason
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[21:39:32] <marc_smith> I know, thx anyway :
[21:39:35] <marc_smith> :)
[21:45:12] <mmu_screen> you can send a patch to fix the bug that triggers them :p
[21:46:45] <stpere> or discover the cause and publish a known issues list so that we can work around it :P
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[21:59:17] <CIA-53> zooey * r37812 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/locale/ICUWrapper.h:
[21:59:18] <CIA-53> * added SetTo() in order to be able to set a new destination
[21:59:18] <CIA-53> string
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[22:06:41] <CIA-53> zooey * r37813 /haiku/trunk/ (11 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[22:06:42] <CIA-53> Improved the Time preflet (still not working properly, though)
[22:06:42] <CIA-53> * basically rewrote TimeZone to sport a nicer to use interface
[22:06:42] <CIA-53> * adjusted all users of TimeZone accordingly
[22:06:42] <CIA-53> * changed TZDisplay to show the Date next to the label, in
[22:06:42] <CIA-53> order to avoid that long timezone names draw all over it
[22:06:42] <CIA-53> * the timezone listview is now properly sorted according
[22:09:13] <CIA-53> zooey * r37814 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
[22:09:13] <CIA-53> * fixed a warning in the opengl preflet and added the current
[22:09:13] <CIA-53> state of things for all preflets to the EnableWerror
[22:09:13] <CIA-53> declarations
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[22:25:52] <mmu_screen> btw, for the record, 5524525405 bytes for a svn dump of the whole tree
[22:26:21] <mmu_screen> depot itself is 1.3GB
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[22:33:59] <CIA-53> zooey * r37815 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/time/ZoneView.cpp:
[22:34:00] <CIA-53> * fix the sorting of second level items - well there was a 50%
[22:34:00] <CIA-53> chance that I'd get that bool right at first try ;-)
[22:37:27] <mmadia> mmu_screen : http://dev.haiku-os.org/attachment/ticket/6385/example-in-use-HAIKU_COMPATIBLE_logo_05c.png
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[22:43:54] <mmu_screen> shrug
[22:44:05] <mmu_screen> this way you're sure noone will forget to replace it :P
[22:44:34] <StreaK|ON> tadaam, compiled another nice QT app for haiku today -> http://omploader.org/vNTMxNA
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[22:55:50] <StreaK|ON> g'night all
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[23:06:26] <michaelvo> very nice logo mmadia ;D
[23:07:52] <mmadia> that squarish logo was made by stippi a while back.
[23:08:01] <mmu_screen> how about "Your logo here" ? :p
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[23:09:19] <mmadia> at that point, why even have a 'compatible' type?
[23:09:44] <michaelvo> if we have sys/mman.h header, why we don't have mremap() function :P
[23:10:52] <dru345> hi all
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[23:12:54] * mmadia nods
[23:19:16] <mmu_screen> michaelvo: cause you didn't send a patch to implement it :p
[23:19:22] <mmu_screen> actually is it normalized ?
[23:20:16] <mmu_screen> http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/basedefs/sys/mman.h.html
[23:20:18] <mmu_screen> it's not
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[23:23:17] <salbert> hi
[23:23:53] <Duggan> hi all
[23:24:14] <dru345> hi Duggan
[23:24:18] <Duggan> hey dru345
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[23:25:14] <salbert> i need help with haiku and ide compatibility
[23:28:29] <salbert> someone can help me?
[23:28:59] <mmadia> you'd need to ask your problem first.
[23:29:04] <Duggan> damn I just fixed my problem!
[23:30:56] <salbert> I have problems to boot haiku R1 Alpha with ide controller activated
[23:32:50] <mmadia> what's the problem?  does it stop at a certain icon?  does it spit out an error message? .... etc.
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[23:33:40] <dru345> oh ide!! not ... ide :P
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[23:37:00] <salbert> thanks mmadia for respondind, excuse my english, haiku boots well if disable IDE DMA or if disable IDE controller from bios
[23:40:05] <salbert> but if I disable IDE DMA haiku runs slowly
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   July 29, 2010  
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