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[00:06:33] <gluon> dancxjo: I'm here, let me check it out

[00:07:26] <dancxjo> gluon: Great

[00:07:32] <dancxjo> You're all set to approve

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[00:09:47] <gluon> well, I already was anyway :) (everybody was)

[00:10:03] <gluon> the real test is letting a non-manager check it out

[00:10:30] <dancxjo> :)

[00:10:37] <dancxjo> Try changing a language other than pt

[00:10:43] <gluon> Xeon3D: I NEED YOU LOL

[00:10:56] <gluon> dancxjo: oh, that's awesome

[00:10:58] <gluon> let me try

[00:12:19] <dru345> hi gluon

[00:13:51] <gluon> hi dancxjo

[00:13:54] <gluon> dru345:

[00:13:57] * michaelvo gets an empty white SDL window instead an empty black SDL window \o/

[00:14:14] <gluon> dru345: though I can't aprove, I can disaprove other languages

[00:14:18] <michaelvo> victory!

[00:14:38] <gluon> dancxjo ^ ^

[00:15:23] <dancxjo> Congratulations, michaelvo!

[00:15:41] <dancxjo> I *love* empty SDL windows! :)

[00:16:04] <dancxjo> you've gotta be kidding, gluon

[00:16:10] <gluon> dancxjo: I'm still able to disaprove other language strings

[00:16:21] <gluon> but I need to change it first

[00:16:25] <dancxjo> Oh

[00:16:38] <gluon> if I try to disaprove without changing it doesn't allow me

[00:16:38] <michaelvo> :D it means that the SDL+OpenGL but is because BGLView is not initialized

[00:16:40] <dancxjo> You're not disapproving them...you're changing them and therefore invalidating them

[00:16:47] <gluon> but if I change something I can then disaprove it

[00:16:52] <dancxjo> Stupid BGLView!

[00:16:58] <dancxjo> Ooooh

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[00:17:19] <gluon> dancxjo: I can change the green tick to the white question mark icon

[00:17:42] <dancxjo> The question mark = unverified. The new string is, in fact, unverified

[00:17:59] <gluon> right

[00:18:04] <dancxjo> The language manager would need to come back and verify it

[00:18:33] <dancxjo> (There's supposed to be a rollback feature, but I haven't implemented it yet.)

[00:18:35] <gluon> it's working fine then

[00:18:42] <dancxjo> Whoohoo!

[00:18:47] <gluon> :)

[00:19:08] <dancxjo> Except that you and I just messed up some catalogs....oh well.

[00:19:34] <dancxjo> Do you think it's worth my time to enable revisioning?

[00:19:38] <dancxjo> I should ask RQ

[00:19:41] <dancxjo> wth

[00:20:59] <dancxjo> Aboutsystem is sooooooooo wrong! :(

[00:21:11] <gluon> is it?

[00:21:17] <gluon> seems fine here

[00:21:47] <dancxjo> I hate the trailing whitespace...and one of the keys starts with a period! A PERIOD! *sigh*

[00:22:11] <dancxjo> So ABCcentric

[00:22:39] <gluon> '. Some system libraries conta...'

[00:22:41] <gluon> this one?

[00:23:05] <dancxjo> Yes. We need some Arabic/Hebrew/anybody whose language doesn't use ASCII . speakers to come set us straight

[00:24:12] <dancxjo> I noticed some of the newer internationalizations have some cool features like "%num" instead of "%d"

[00:24:23] <dancxjo> Someone should do that with Aboutsystem

[00:24:33] <dancxjo> I heart whoever did that

[00:28:44] <dru345> what does %num do for you that %d does not?

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[00:37:03] <gluon> who has the permissions to delete translator accounts in the user translation tool?

[00:37:12] <gluon> mmadia?

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[00:52:20] <dancxjo> dru345: num is arbitrary...much clearer for translators

[00:52:30] <dancxjo> %current of %max files copied

[00:52:38] <dru345> I understand

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[01:04:36] <CIA-37> mmadia * r37671 /haiku/trunk/data/bin/install-wifi-firmwares.sh: Added some much needed echo statements about the scripts progress.

[01:07:26] <Duggan> hey dru345

[01:07:51] <CIA-37> zooey * r37672 /haiku/trunk/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs):

[01:07:51] <CIA-37> * fixed a couple of regressions of r37670 concerning optional build targets

[01:07:51] <CIA-37> (bluetooth, ac3_decoder, netfs)

[01:08:18] <Duggan> how goes the tracker hacking?

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[01:22:50] <dru345> me?

[01:23:06] <dru345> sorry i stepped out to the rental office

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[01:24:40] <dru345> Duggan - i haven't started hacking on it today. will start soon.

[01:24:40] <Duggan> hehe no prob

[01:24:43] <Duggan> yes you

[01:24:46] <Duggan> ah

[01:25:30] <Duggan> been working on my project, got it to create a new db for each project, create the tables, and insert some default information, so I'm doing alright on mine

[01:25:55] <dru345> awesome

[01:26:15] <dru345> i was going to ask you about creating custom controls. i had an 'idea'...

[01:26:31] <dru345> but i'm not ready to ask yet :D

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[01:27:16] <CIA-37> zooey * r37673 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/BuildSetup: * one more Werror-related build fix for bluetooth

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[01:31:10] <Duggan> lol ok well whenever you're ready, ask away :)

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[01:52:04] <Xeon3D> hey dru345, Duggan

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[01:57:36] <Duggan> hey Xeon3D

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[01:58:22] <Duggan> gluon was looking for you earlier

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[01:59:10] <Xeon3D> Yeah Duggan he left me some PM's.

[01:59:17] <Duggan> him and dancxjo were doing some stuff with the localization stuff

[01:59:19] <Duggan> ah ok

[01:59:25] <CIA-37> zooey * r37674 /haiku/trunk/headers/posix/wchar.h:

[01:59:25] <CIA-37> * reverted r37669, as gcc4 enables wchar_t-related template types, but

[01:59:25] <CIA-37> then fails to build them because of wcsftime() missing

[01:59:25] <CIA-37> Needs more investigation ...

[01:59:26] <Xeon3D> I don't think he realized yet I am using a BNC despite my away message :P

[01:59:55] <Duggan> hehe

[02:00:27] <Duggan> I need my program to be able to write my program :/

[02:00:41] <Xeon3D> He did tell me something related to the pt_PT user guide translation, but I haven't heard from dancxjo

[02:01:29] <Duggan> ah... I don't know anything about the localization stuff... I don't know any other languages, I just know I want to lol

[02:04:52] <Duggan> hmmm

[02:05:16] <Duggan> I'm considering going ahead and doing something more flexibly than I had originally intended but that would involve control arrays :/

[02:05:17] <Duggan> ick

[02:05:56] <Duggan> brb

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[02:19:38] <srbaker> who has the ported emacs source?

[02:19:44] <srbaker> we were talking about it herethe other night

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[02:25:01] <cpr420> Depends if you want 23.1 or the latest from the repo

[02:25:18] <cpr420> DraX has 23.1

[02:27:39] <srbaker> well, i'd like to have latest.

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[02:28:56] <cpr420> it'll take me a little bit to generate a diff

[02:29:09] <srbaker> thanks, i appreciate it

[02:34:19] <dru345> Lightspark is a GPL alternative to Flash, just released an update, anyone working on a port? - http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Lightspark-0-4-2-open-source-Flash-player-released-1042757.html

[02:35:18] <cpr420> srbaker: How do you want it? pastebin?

[02:35:43] <srbaker> cpr420:  please

[02:35:57] <srbaker> it's a diff against latest release? ro against cvs?

[02:36:24] <cpr420> it's against the master of the git mirror

[02:36:33] <srbaker> excellent, thanks

[02:36:33] <srbaker> :)

[02:37:13] <cpr420> I've stripped out some stuff that I was toying with, so there is a small chance it's broken :P

[02:37:26] <srbaker> is there git for haiku?

[02:37:37] <cpr420> yes, it's an optional package

[02:38:05] <cpr420> installoptionalpackage should be able to install it if you don't already have it

[02:38:18] <cpr420> http://haiku.pastebin.org/411418

[02:38:31] <srbaker> excellent, thanks

[02:38:34] <srbaker> installing git now

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[02:39:35] <Duggan> dru345 there's already a port for gnash

[02:39:38] <Duggan> it just sucks right now

[02:40:38] <cpr420> srbaker: I don't know if those elf files are needed if you're not trying to dump, but I've left them in there

[02:48:29] <cpr420> srbaker: that diff is missing a file, just a minute

[02:48:36] <srbaker> oh, thanks

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[02:53:22] <l_n> rawr!

[02:53:47] <srbaker> i'm sure i've got a couple hours before i'm ready to build it anyhow

[02:53:58] <cpr420> srbaker: http://haiku.pastebin.org/411437

[02:54:06] <srbaker> cpr420:  thank you very much

[02:54:19] <cpr420> the haiku.h header has some junk left in it still that I was too lazy to strip out

[02:55:41] <srbaker> that's okay

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[02:59:17] <l_n> erm.. is ALIGNMENT supposed to be a system constant?

[03:00:42] <srbaker> are most haiku devs on linux full time? or is it a nice wide mix?

[03:01:16] <cpr420> I think the majority develop from within Haiku

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[03:01:32] <srbaker> right, but i mean day to day. haiku's not day-to-day useful yet is it?

[03:01:38] <l_n> haiku should be run on real metal :P

[03:01:47] <l_n> haiku is the only os on my eee 1000

[03:02:11] <cpr420> I was spending 90% of my time in Haiku before my computer upgrade

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[03:05:49] <srbaker> l_n: all fo the hardware is supported?

[03:06:01] <srbaker> once i have gui emacs, and ruby, i'll be able to do that

[03:06:16] <cpr420> ruby is already done

[03:06:34] <cpr420> (in case you weren't aware)

[03:06:49] <l_n> srbaker: i had to replace the ralink 2860

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[03:07:24] <srbaker> cpr420: i heard it was being worked on, i wasn't aware it was complete.

[03:07:25] <srbaker> that's good to know

[03:07:28] <l_n> no camera.. haven't tested bluetooth

[03:07:47] <cpr420> srbaker: I don't know if I'd call it complete but I haven't had any issues with it

[03:08:02] <srbaker> cool.

[03:08:31] <CIA-37> anevilyak * r37675 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/locale/LocaleSettings.cpp:

[03:08:31] <CIA-37> If the message didn't already contain the short/long time format, they would

[03:08:31] <CIA-37> never get added to the update message since ReplaceString won't add if the name

[03:08:31] <CIA-37> specified doesn't already exist. Fixes locale settings for time format not

[03:08:31] <CIA-37> propagating properly.

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[03:15:59] * l_n needs something to do.

[03:16:28] <cpr420> l_n fix ticket #5

[03:17:15] <Xeon3D> l_n:  abiword? :X

[03:18:27] <l_n> if gobe doesn't reply within a week, i'll break out my c++ book(s) and beos references and write a frontend for one of the two (OOo or abiword)

[03:18:43] <dru345> :D

[03:18:45] <l_n> (granted, it'll probably never get finished, *but* it's worth trying)

[03:18:53] <srbaker> abiword just needs to be updated, doesn't it?

[03:18:57] <srbaker> i mean, it had a beos port back in the day?

[03:19:10] <l_n> srbaker: i would rather do 100% native + translators, etc

[03:19:32] <l_n> if something like that is going to be brought over to haiku/BeOS, might as well do it right.

[03:19:42] <srbaker> right, i thought abiword had a native port

[03:20:08] <dru345> it did in the 1.0.6 time frame but it wasn't stable even on R5.

[03:20:25] <mmadia> l_n : don't expect a reply.  you'll save yourself time.

[03:20:27] <dru345> they're at 2.6 or something now. much changed.

[03:20:40] <l_n> ...and who really uses *just* a word processor now?

[03:21:02] <l_n> mmadia: i take it the gmail address on their contact page is rarely checked...

[03:21:06] <mmadia> what other languages to you know l_n ?

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[03:21:48] <mmadia> the last email i saw from Bruce @ Gobe was late september.

[03:22:05] <l_n> i know enough C and lisp to read code... c++ is close enough to c that i can understand it.

[03:22:17] <l_n> i need *a lot* of practice to actually write something

[03:22:25] * dru345 thinks an open source clone is the best way to go.

[03:22:37] <Hodapp> some C++ is pretty far off.

[03:22:55] <cpr420> l_n you could do some Haiku bindings for scheme :)

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[03:23:06] <l_n> Hodapp: agreed, but it is still a superset of C

[03:23:13] <mmadia> you could write a GUI front end for Transmission. they've even a nice RPC to follow.

[03:23:58] <mmadia> that'd be one less reason for people to install Qt (or complain about the webclient)

[03:30:43] <l_n> mmadia: is this https://trac.transmissionbt.com/wiki/rpc what you're referring to?

[03:31:05] <mmadia> yep

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[03:41:01] <Sikosis> can anyone recommend a good sticky notes app for haiku ?

[03:44:49] <luroh> Sikosis: i remember reading about DeskNotes, haven't tried it myself though

[03:44:54] <luroh> http://haikuware.com/directory/view-details/info-management/miscellaneous/desknotes

[03:45:17] <Sikosis> yeh i tried it ... its ok but i wasnt able to create more than one note ... and its replicant code doesnt work

[03:45:24] <luroh> bah

[03:46:03] <Sikosis> the source code was available ... maybe i might have a look at it and get it working ... or start a new project

[03:49:46] <Sikosis> the code is from R4 so its a bit old ...

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[03:55:04] <Duggan> hi luroh, l_n, mmadia, Sikosis, *

[03:55:11] <Duggan> hey JonathanThompson

[03:55:23] <JonathanThompson> Ho Duggan!

[03:58:43] <l_n> Duggan: 'ello.

[03:58:49] <l_n> oder hallo

[04:02:29] <jmayfield_> hi'

[04:07:57] <Disreali> o/

[04:08:50] <l_n> Disreali: wie gehts?

[04:09:10] <Disreali> gut

[04:09:44] <Disreali> wow! that takes me back a bit

[04:11:18] <Duggan> hey Disreali

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[04:11:30] <Disreali> I have forgotten practically all of my conversational Deutsch

[04:11:37] <Disreali> hi Duggan

[04:11:39] <l_n> yay. level 36 in #idlerpg :P

[04:11:46] <Duggan> erm.... hows it spelled again.... "was ist lohs?"...

[04:11:59] <Disreali> los

[04:12:03] <Duggan> ah sorry

[04:12:06] <Disreali> i forget

[04:12:21] <Duggan> whats that l_n?

[04:12:28] <Jonatha__> Moo

[04:12:36] <Duggan> oink

[04:12:37] <Disreali> baah

[04:14:13] <Disreali> what is te cmd to initiate  private chat? /privmsg or something else

[04:15:02] <l_n> Duggan: was ist was?

[04:15:05] <Disreali> not talking about dcc chat

[04:15:09] <l_n> Disreali: /query

[04:15:15] <Disreali> thank you

[04:15:38] <Disreali> l_n: what is idlerpg?

[04:16:39] <Disreali> at least that is what I understood the question to be

[04:16:40] <l_n> Disreali: an irc channel where you gain levels, items, etc. for sitting idle.

[04:16:46] <l_n> you're penalized for speaking.

[04:16:58] <Disreali> HAHAHA

[04:17:10] <Disreali> I'd rather play quake

[04:17:13] <l_n> was ist los=what's up (according to google :P)

[04:18:15] <l_n> that's weird. 'was ist los' literally means what is off?

[04:18:24] <Duggan> or what is wrong, yes

[04:18:26] <Disreali> wie gehts is similar. iirc "how goes it"

[04:18:34] <Duggan> but colloquially(sp) it means "whats up"

[04:18:37] <l_n> ah, meaning 'off' as in 'not right'

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[04:18:55] <Duggan> Disreali correct

[04:19:01] <l_n> yeah.. wie gehts is a contraction of 'wie geht es [ihnen|dir]'

[04:19:09] <Disreali> glad that I remember something

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[04:19:15] <Duggan> lol

[04:19:27] <l_n> silly formal/informal 2nd person

[04:19:53] <Disreali> not really

[04:20:14] <Disreali> English is the odd language for not having genders

[04:20:17] <l_n> english *used* to have it.

[04:20:26] <l_n> formal/informal is not gender

[04:20:37] <l_n> it has to do with how familiar you are with someone

[04:20:40] <Duggan> english used to have formal and informal versions of words...

[04:20:54] <Duggan> how art thou is informal, how are you is formal

[04:21:00] <Disreali> true, I was mixing it up

[04:21:40] <Disreali> Duggan: I thought is was the other way around

[04:21:46] <Duggan> I don't think so

[04:21:54] <l_n> no. thou is informal

[04:21:59] <Disreali> ok

[04:22:06] <l_n> it's only modern english speakers that get it mixed up because it's so archaic

[04:22:17] <Disreali> cool!  language geekery online

[04:22:22] <l_n> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/thou

[04:22:54] <Duggan> yeah all those middle english speakers never screw it up.... damn you middle english speakers!

[04:24:40] <Disreali> l_n: still looking for a project to occupy your time?  Think sdlquake  http://mapopa.blogspot.com/2010/06/quake-sdl-on-haikuos.html

[04:25:29] <Disreali> I've tried a couple times unsuccessfully.  the direction are less than desired

[04:25:37] <Duggan> another thing, technically a gender is by default male in english

[04:25:52] <Duggan> the his/her combination is only a very recent change

[04:26:08] <Disreali> Duggan: not really

[04:26:37] <l_n> vielleicht ich werde eine Client-Anwendung für transmissionbt machen.

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[04:27:07] <l_n> oder ist es 'ein' oder 'einen'?

[04:28:53] <l_n> ah. 'die Anwendung', so ist es 'die Client-Anwendung', nicht wa?

[04:28:57] <Disreali> I think I understand that you plan to make a transmissionbt native(?) client.  not sure wht the second bit is

[04:29:14] <l_n> 'or is it 'ein' or 'einen'

[04:29:32] <l_n> i wasn't sure of the gender of client-anwendung

[04:29:37] <Disreali> but a native transmission gui is an excellent project

[04:29:59] <Disreali> neither do I

[04:30:18] <l_n> anwendung is f, so the compound should be as well

[04:31:42] <Disreali> there was a beos/haiku native gui for 0.7 or so.  Bryan Varner did it. code should still be around somewhere. it could be useful

[04:32:00] <Duggan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_language_in_English

[04:32:13] <Disreali> I'm off to play quake. later

[04:32:24] <Duggan> as well as "mankind"

[04:32:32] <l_n> i think the api's have changed quite a bit since then..

[04:32:41] <Duggan> which refers to all people, regardless of gender

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[04:51:30] <l_n> Duggan: a more politically correct version is 'humankind'

[04:51:41] <l_n> but, political correctness is bullshit.

[04:59:49] * l_n goes looking for libtransmission documentation

[05:00:02] * knut_ agrees with l_n

[05:01:32] <l_n> transmission 2.03 builds and runs with one modification.

[05:01:36] <l_n> (cli)

[05:06:24] <l_n> it looks like (from glancing at the cli client source) that a native transmission client may not be all that difficult..

[05:06:39] <l_n> the biggest obstacle will be learning the BeAPI as I go :P

[05:06:47] <l_n> (and more c++)

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[05:13:46] <handheldcar2> Does anybody use a CD burner in Haiku? I've installed CDTools and GCombust, but I'm not getting a GUI for the latter.

[05:14:23] <handheldcar2> Does anybody use CDTools by itself to burn iso files?

[05:20:30] <Duggan> l_n, "political correctness" is a relatively new invention... the grammatically correct form is "mankind"

[05:20:35] <Duggan> handheldcar2 sorry, can't help you

[05:22:46] <l_n> Duggan: es macht nichts. es ist alle scheisse. :P

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[05:23:28] <handheldcar2> 1600x1200 is too small to read. I'm setting up vesa to 1400x1050x16. Maybe it will load automatically

[05:26:47] <Duggan> l_n lol

[05:27:31] <Duggan> I got the second part, can't figure the first part though :/

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[05:30:34] <l_n> Duggan: 'it makes nothing' (lit.) 'it doesn't matter'

[05:30:53] <l_n> (the first is the lit. trans.  the second is the usual meaning)

[05:34:28] <l_n> hrm.. reading rfc2396 makes me wonder if gopher even exists anymore

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[05:52:30] <Duggan> l_n gotcha, sorry, I thought it sounded like that but I didn't want to assume

[05:52:45] <Duggan> so I have a question for you...

[05:53:40] <Duggan> which is correct: "ich bin der Fleischer" or "ich heise der Fleischer"

[05:54:09] <Duggan> if I were trying to say "I am the Butcher" as in, I'm known as...

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[05:56:44] <l_n> ich heisse der Fleischer

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[05:56:55] <Duggan> ah heisse sorry

[05:57:24] <l_n> or heiße

[05:57:32] <Duggan> thanks, thats something I've been wondering about for a while and my friend couldn't say one way or the other

[05:57:50] <Duggan> ja, I don't have the eszet though (or is it esszet)

[05:58:01] <l_n> google translate messes that one up. it takes the literal meaning of 'heißen'

[05:58:09] <l_n> opt-s

[05:58:17] <l_n> (aka win-s on haiku)

[05:58:24] <Duggan> ßweet

[05:58:33] <l_n> ü->opt-y

[05:58:49] <Duggan> awesome, I need to write this down... lol

[05:58:51] <l_n> ä->opt-q

[05:58:59] <l_n> it's in the keyboard preflet

[05:59:13] <l_n> keymap*

[05:59:40] <Duggan> ah, thanks :)

[06:00:28] <l_n> opt-p is ö

[06:00:40] <l_n> bedtime.

[06:00:44] <Duggan> l8r l_n thanks :)

[06:00:45] * l_n returns to lurking

[06:00:46] <l_n> gn8

[06:01:26] <l_n> bis morgen

[06:01:29] <l_n> etc

[06:01:55] <Duggan> auf wiedersehen ... I think thats right...

[06:02:56] <Duggan> hej då

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[06:41:59] <kurain> hello all

[06:50:12] <dru345> hi kurain. how's the translation coming?

[06:51:01] <Duggan> hey kurain, dru345

[06:51:17] <Duggan> dru345 you got that question ready yet? hehe

[06:52:19] <kurain> well, dru345, the translation is going well and fast these days,

[06:52:25] <Duggan> btw, I'm finally figuring this sqlite stuff out, its pretty cool... and easy to use

[06:53:23] <kurain> I have the whole summer holiday to translate. so I think I will finish it by the end of summer holiday.

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[07:02:34] <dru345> Duggan no question tonight. I think I'm taking the night off Haiku coding.

[07:03:51] <Duggan> aww

[07:03:58] <Duggan> want to hear more bad news?

[07:04:05] <dru345> always

[07:04:12] <Duggan> I'm going to have to use a ColumnListView (eventually)

[07:04:29] <Duggan> those things are just too damned useful, or would be if they worked :/

[07:04:35] <dru345> heh

[07:05:41] <Duggan> I'm probably just going to use a ListView for now, even though it'd be ugly as hell and less useful...

[07:06:54] <Duggan> and on top of that, at some point, I'm going to have to use control arrays :'(

[07:07:22] <Duggan> but I'm dumbing it all down and making it ugly and less useful as much as I can just so I can finish it first lol

[07:08:12] <srbaker> is there an ide in haiku? or are people using Pe and command line tools?

[07:08:30] <Duggan> yep

[07:08:36] <Duggan> but not quite like what you're used to

[07:10:10] <Duggan> alot of people are using Paladin these days... I like some of the features of Niue (even though its rather buggy)

[07:10:22] <srbaker> how do i install Paladin?

[07:10:29] <srbaker> well, that's true, but probably not for the reason you think.

[07:10:41] <Duggan> whats true?

[07:10:42] <srbaker> i'm "used" to smalltalk. when i'm not doing smalltalk, i use emacs :P

[07:10:48] <Duggan> oh :/

[07:10:49] <Duggan> lol

[07:11:01] <Duggan> for paladin, get it from haikuware.com

[07:11:12] <Duggan> unzip it, then double click the pkg

[07:11:21] <Duggan> er I think its packaged...

[07:11:31] <Duggan> yeah it is... ok

[07:11:42] <srbaker> cool

[07:11:43] <srbaker> thx

[07:11:46] <Duggan> no prob

[07:11:50] <Duggan> one sec and I can get you a direct link

[07:12:41] <Duggan> http://haikuware.com/directory/view-details/development/ides/paladin

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[07:14:05] <srbaker> awesome, thanks

[07:14:26] <Duggan> no prob

[07:14:58] <Duggan> the editor PalEdit is based on the Pe source... with some bug fixes

[07:16:16] <Duggan> other than that Paladin itself is stable (now) and pretty easy to use, all in all its not bad

[07:16:56] <Duggan> and I'm not implying theres problems with PalEdit...

[07:18:24] * dru345 uses Pe but wishes it was a bit better.

[07:19:10] <Duggan> Pe's not bad as an editor, some people complain its not stable but I've never had any problems

[07:19:23] <dru345> it's stable for me

[07:19:32] <srbaker> where does the name Pe come from?

[07:19:39] <dru345> Programmer's Editor

[07:19:39] <Duggan> I'm glad I finally have Niue running again.... it sucks that its as buggy as it is, but otherwise its nice

[07:19:51] <Duggan> I never knew that myself :P

[07:19:55] <cpr420> it used to be called Pepper

[07:20:04] <dru345> :D

[07:20:13] <Duggan> why change it? Pepper sounds better than Pe

[07:20:26] <Duggan> I'm gonna write my own editor and call it Urine... :/

[07:20:55] <dru345> I always think of it as P.E.

[07:21:35] <Duggan> can't say I ever have

[07:22:03] <Duggan> like I said, I don't think badly of it, I just never understood why it was named that..... looked French :P

[07:27:00] <srbaker> okay, i'm going to run through the easy task list and see what i can do

[07:29:01] * cpr420 thinks srbaker should work on ticket #5

[07:29:44] <srbaker> haha

[07:29:46] <srbaker> yeah right

[07:29:54] <srbaker> let me get my feet wet first

[07:30:03] <cpr420> one of these days I'll get someone to do it!

[07:30:40] <srbaker> is there a key i can hold while clicking a link in WP to get the link to open in a new tab?

[07:30:50] <cpr420> middle click?

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[07:40:06] <srbaker> oh. i don't think i have middle click

[07:40:19] <srbaker> hey, is there a way, in C++, to instantiate a class based on a string representation of it?

[07:40:39] <srbaker> in ruby, i use const_get()

[07:42:56] <drano> no

[07:43:15] <drano> you'll have to write something like that yourself

[07:43:55] <drano> not having introspection and other dynamic features like that is part of the tradeoff when using c++ (you know, a language where your code actually performs well)

[07:45:13] <srbaker> oh, introspection and dynamic features don't prevent your code form performing well

[07:46:10] <srbaker> that was proven quite well by smalltalk

[07:47:09] <drano> yeah. let's see a modern smalltalk implementation that could even remotely compete with a modern c++ implementation

[07:47:15] <drano> oops, there aren't any modern smalltalk implementations

[07:53:09] <srbaker> drano: the speed differences are minimal, and are not caused by the dynamic features of the language

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[07:53:40] <drano> blah

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[07:57:45] <srbaker> hrm

[07:57:51] <srbaker> i want a netbook that runs haiku damnit

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[07:58:37] <srbaker> is there a hardware guide?

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[07:59:38] <cpr420> I thought most netbooks ran Haiku fairly well

[07:59:51] <cpr420> there is a database @ haikuware.com

[08:00:38] <srbaker> oh cool

[08:00:43] <srbaker> found hardware compat wiki too

[08:01:46] * cpr420 should add his mobo and list it as problematic

[08:06:35] <matthias9> hmm haiku runs well on this Thinkpad T61 and those you get quite cheap these days 2nd hand

[08:07:07] <matthias9> in .de there is even someone cleaning and testing used thinkpads and selling them with one year warranty including upgrading of RAM+HDD

[08:08:05] <matthias9> though such a thing is larger as a netbook

[08:08:22] <matthias9> and probably doesn't run as long on battery

[08:08:51] <srbaker> i want something newish so i can get a decent battery.

[08:10:01] <srbaker> wow

[08:10:07] <srbaker> emacs is taking a while to build

[08:10:21] <cpr420> yeah, the undumped version takes forever

[08:11:02] <cpr420> once all of the .el files are byte compiled they generally don't need to be redone though

[08:11:17] <srbaker> yeah. thta't sall it's doing now

[08:11:57] <srbaker> there's wireless support, right?

[08:12:36] <Duggan> limited, but yes

[08:12:45] <cpr420> it's not very mature, no wpa, limited chipsets

[08:12:47] <Duggan> WPA isn't finished

[08:14:18] <cpr420> although wpa may be available soon, I think that was part of axel's contract

[08:15:32] <Duggan> has the contract been signed and are the contents of said contract going to be made public?

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[08:18:12] <cpr420> it's on the website, that's why there was a flurry of commits from him the past 2 days

[08:18:52] <Duggan> hmm

[08:20:20] <Duggan> erm do you know where? :/

[08:20:45] <cpr420> it's the first article on haiku-os.org

[08:21:01] <cpr420> http://www.haiku-os.org/news/2010-07-14_opportunity_pay_axel_code_haiku

[08:21:19] <Duggan> yeah thats not the contract

[08:21:23] <srbaker> i think i want this one: http://comoxvalley.en.craigslist.ca/sys/1803820349.html

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[08:22:13] <cpr420> you mean like a signed document or something? then no, but it covers the details of his contract

[08:22:49] <Duggan> due to the tax exempt status of Haiku Inc. they are most likely legally required to post the contract as it pertains to an expenditure of funds to prove the donated funds are being spent appropriately

[08:23:03] <Duggan> not a signed document, but the contents of the document that was signed

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[08:23:26] <cpr420> it's possible it's out there somewhere but I didn't bother to look

[08:25:22] <cpr420> srbaker: I wouldn't pay that much for it

[08:25:43] <cpr420> I've seen cheaper ones at walmart that were twice as powerful

[08:26:03] <srbaker> cpr420: agree. but i have additoinal plans for that one

[08:35:25] <srbaker> i'm going to offer $100 if it's in good shape

[08:35:42] <srbaker> i like the gps and the touchscreen

[08:35:52] <srbaker> for boating and flying.

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[09:12:42] <CIA-37> stippi * r37676 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/plugins/vorbis/libvorbis/Jamfile:

[09:12:42] <CIA-37> "-O20" GCC flags should have been bogus. As far as I know, we are already

[09:12:42] <CIA-37> compiling with "-O2". Fixes ticket #6303.

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[09:21:23] <ali3n0> hi folks

[09:26:04] <CK|iPod> Hi

[09:26:59] * ali3n0 has no haiku at workplace to play around :/

[09:27:18] <cpr420> sneak in a usb stick to run it

[09:30:06] <ali3n0> eh, I've got no hardware available

[09:30:33] <ali3n0> I can't run virtualbox either cause it's an atom

[09:30:52] <ali3n0> or better, it's a netbook with no storage available

[09:35:05] <ali3n0> uhm... is there vlc or something like that available? I was thinking about providing a demo online or something

[09:37:19] <cpr420> there is an ancient version of vlc, a new version without native interface, or built in media player

[09:40:25] <ali3n0> sorry, s/vlc/vnc

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[09:43:01] <cpr420> I assume you mean a server? iirc there's an old one on bebits.com

[09:44:08] <ali3n0> yeah, I was thinking to place it somewhere on the net and play via a vnc client

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[09:59:29] <PulkoMandy> ask mmu_screen, he made some "online demo" system using VNC IIRC

[09:59:49] <PulkoMandy> I think part of it is on svn in his 3rdparty/ folder, you may have a look there

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[10:03:48] <ali3n0> PulkoMandy, ok tnx I'll give it a go

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[10:04:11] <ali3n0> mmu_screen, you there?

[10:06:18] <PulkoMandy> http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/3rdparty/mmu_man/onlinedemo/haiku.php

[10:06:24] <PulkoMandy> ah, actually it uses qemu's vnc

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[10:15:30] <phoudoin> ali3n0: I guess he's not.

[10:15:41] <phoudoin> Coffee pause, maybe.

[10:15:50] <ali3n0> no problem, I'll be here around today

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[10:23:52] <phoudoin> LOL

[10:25:02] <phoudoin> The french traduction made by Google Translate of the latest Haiku-OS.it italian news website make Axel very rich!

[10:25:42] <phoudoin> (for those reading french: http://www.haiku-os.it/?q=node/763, translate it with Google Chrome translation plugin or Google Translation service)

[10:26:00] <phoudoin> "Axel (photo) a offert de travailler pour le système pendant 120 heures à 14 milliards de dollars de l'heure pour un total de 1680 $."

[10:26:13] <phoudoin> 14 billion of dollars per hour!

[10:26:16] <phoudoin> Woa.

[10:26:23] <gluon> LOL

[10:26:36] <surrounder> hahahaha

[10:26:40] * phoudoin seeks Axel phone number, it's time to say hi to a good friend :-)

[10:26:45] <surrounder> lol

[10:27:40] <phoudoin> This haiku contract work initiative is very interesting...

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[10:29:10] <phoudoin> PulkoMandy: you should contact Haiku Inc. ASAP, as clearly you're not paid fair for your contract work :-)

[10:29:18] <phoudoin> "Axel (photo) a offert de travailler pour le système pendant 120 heures à 14 milliards de dollars de l'heure pour un total de 1680 $."

[10:29:56] <PulkoMandy> :)

[10:30:00] <phoudoin> Milliards! As translated by Google translate service/plugin from haiku-os.it.

[10:30:41] <phoudoin> 40 years of research on text translation, and we're still facing such issue. :(

[10:30:56] <phoudoin> By we, I mean IT.

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[10:31:02] <PulkoMandy> I don't know where it found that in the original text...

[10:31:12] <phoudoin> It can't.

[10:31:17] <PulkoMandy> "per 120 ore a $14 dollari l'ora"

[10:32:47] <phoudoin> I guess someone consider that one dollar value one billion in France...

[10:33:18] <phoudoin> I'm rich then, as I've few bucks at home !

[10:34:25] <PulkoMandy> :)

[10:34:30] <phoudoin> So, automated localisation is a tricky business.

[10:34:50] <phoudoin> I bet you know that better than me, BTW :)

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[10:37:20] <Shisui> phoudoin, maybe Axel will work 432 milliseconds for his contract, at 14 billions per hour :-P

[10:38:34] <gluon> that's what I thought when I saw 'for a total of $1680' hehe

[10:40:03] <Shisui> mathematics are evil ...

[10:42:46] <geist> $14/hr?

[10:43:02] <geist> that's it? the man must have inexpensive tastes

[10:44:06] <phoudoin> inexpensive tastes are the best... :p

[10:45:29] <phoudoin> but Google translator detect and correct this, making it $14 000 000 000/hr, because french tastes were detected.

[10:47:05] <gluon> people often think about increasing their income for a better quality of life, to me however QoL = income/money_you_need_to_be_happy

[10:47:28] <gluon> thus, I can go for a better QoL by lowering the denominator

[10:47:42] <gluon> rather than increasing the income :)

[10:48:25] <geist> $14/hr you are well below the poverty line in norcal

[10:50:04] <Shisui> below ?!

[10:50:08] <ali3n0> in Italy too

[10:50:38] <geist> well, probably not really, but the cost of living here is quite high

[10:51:47] <Shisui> how many hours per week are you working in the US ? :p

[10:51:49] <gluon> move to another country with a lower cost of living or lower the denominator in my QoL fraction :)

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[10:53:35] <PulkoMandy> everyone knows that axel works 24h a day (at least), so $14/hour is likely ok :)

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[10:54:44] <Shisui> it's likely ok for an android, not for a human :p

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[10:57:06] <gluon> I guess we should perform a turing test on Axel.

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[10:58:11] <RQ> PulkoMandy: hey

[10:59:12] <PulkoMandy> :)

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[11:00:21] *** Shisui_ is now known as Shisui

[11:01:42] <RQ> PulkoMandy: what's the address of L10n wiki landing page?

[11:04:43] <PulkoMandy> http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/i18n

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[11:10:29] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37677 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/deskbar/ (BarApp.cpp TimeView.cpp): * Notify the TimeView in Deskbar when a locale change occurs, so it can update its size.

[11:10:30] * Xeon3D wants a droid-based phone :/

[11:11:02] * surrounder pets his HTC Legend

[11:11:16] * CK|iPod licks his HTC Dream

[11:11:31] <surrounder> haha

[11:12:38] * PulkoMandy has no phone at alland is happy with it

[11:12:38] * StreaK|ON dont mind about droid-based stuff.. he's waithing for his Openandora since 2 yrs

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[11:42:34] <gluon> kurain: you're inspired today ;)

[11:42:53] <gluon> nice work

[11:45:46] <kurain> well, why do you say that, gluon?

[11:46:16] <kurain> you mean my translation?

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[11:52:20] <gluon> kurain: yes!

[11:52:35] <gluon> I was watching the changelog

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[11:55:30] <kurain> well, I saw yours too. now I am on holiday, nothing to disturb, so I can focus on the translation.

[11:58:12] <kurain> gluon:which language are you working on?

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[12:00:31] <gluon> portuguese

[12:01:13] <gluon> though now I moved my focus to HTA to finish the system translation this week

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[12:01:50] <ali3n0> HTA?

[12:03:40] <gluon> the system localization tool

[12:03:52] <RQ> dancxjo : ping

[12:04:32] <kurain> well, I will do that too, but fortunally I have done much on HTA

[12:04:59] <dancxjo> hullo, all

[12:05:11] <kurain> hello dancxjo

[12:05:57] <dancxjo> kurain: I listed you as the manager for zn_Hans. Is this correct? Or should it be zn?

[12:06:07] <dancxjo> Is there a reasonable default for zn?

[12:06:46] <dancxjo> (It's kind of arbitrary: en_US is default for en, but pt_PT is default for pt...does that make any sense?)

[12:07:01] <RQ> it does

[12:07:26] <dancxjo> :)

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[12:08:03] <dancxjo> The question would be, then: Should Chinese traditional writers fallback to simplified, or vice versa, or neither?

[12:09:18] <dancxjo> I just learned a lesson in netiquette. Apparently "top-posting" is very naughty.

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[12:10:09] <dancxjo> rq: there's a message about pootle on hta now. Can you give a status update?

[12:10:22] <dancxjo> (brb)

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[12:11:41] <RQ> dancxjo: where?

[12:12:14] <dancxjo> on the main page, in the orange box. (I know, the layout, stylesheets, ... are fugly)

[12:12:20] <kurain> dancxjo:sorry, I was reading the codes. you should use zh_cn for that

[12:12:45] <dancxjo> how did I get zn?

[12:12:55] <dancxjo> Shows you how little I know about Chinese. :(

[12:13:04] <kurain> you got zn?

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[12:13:59] <RQ> kurain: is _cn mandatory?

[12:14:20] <kurain> yes

[12:14:36] <RQ> what would simply zh mean then?

[12:15:11] <dancxjo> ok, kurain, you're now manager for both zh_cn and zh_Hans...and I'll make you zh as well.

[12:15:17] <RQ> dancxjo: what you wrote about Pootle is correct.

[12:15:29] <dancxjo> Although, would that start a dispute for any zh_tw?

[12:15:55] <RQ> what's Hans ?

[12:16:10] <kurain> zh means chinese language, but cd means china, when they are combined ,it means chinese used in china mainlang

[12:16:19] <dancxjo> simplified han writing

[12:17:07] <RQ> hm

[12:17:18] <dancxjo> We need to know how ICU treats fallbacks for Chinese. I've always seen it distinguished by script rather than by country. It's a very special case. We need to ask pulkomandy. He knows everything.

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[12:18:00] <kurain> well, I make some mistakes, "zh " means chinese language, well "cn" means china, when they are combined zh_cn ,it means chinese used in china mainland

[12:18:01] <RQ> dancxjo : simplified is chinese chinese, traditional is chinese taiwanese

[12:18:10] <RQ> afaik

[12:18:36] <RQ> hence, zh_cn and zh_tw

[12:18:42] <kurain> yes

[12:18:50] <kurain> RQ is right

[12:19:44] <RQ> kurain : I know what those codes make up. I was just wondering if "zh" alone makes any sense or not. But I just looked at firefox locale list, and we don't have "zh" there, so I assume it doesn't make sense after all :)

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[12:19:46] <RQ> the list is here: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all.html

[12:20:09] <kurain> RQ:ok, i will check

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[12:20:56] <RQ> kurain, so, there is no "zh" locale for Firefox, just zh_cn and zh_tw

[12:21:40] <kurain> well, I see

[12:22:26] <kurain> zh_cn is simplified chinese, just which I am working on

[12:22:43] <RQ> dancxjo: why are ll_CC codes used in http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/i18n even when just ll would suffice?

[12:22:47] <kurain> well zh_tw, I am not good at it

[12:22:57] <RQ> kurain: sure that's fine :)

[12:23:36] <dancxjo> Ok

[12:23:41] <dancxjo> that is useful

[12:24:04] <dancxjo> RQ: They're not

[12:24:15] <RQ> look at the links

[12:24:19] <dancxjo> ll_CC is only used for a few special cases, (pt_BR, en_CA)

[12:24:33] <RQ> a link to Russian says "ru_RU", for example

[12:24:49] <dancxjo> Oh

[12:24:51] <dancxjo> I dunno

[12:25:10] <RQ> and: how do I create a page for "lt" ?

[12:25:13] <dancxjo> Another example of my being out of touch with the userguide people

[12:25:21] <dancxjo> See...I dunno

[12:25:30] <dancxjo> You'd have to talk to humdinger

[12:25:46] <RQ> ru_RU is superfous

[12:25:54] <RQ> (or whatever the spelling is)

[12:25:57] <dancxjo> I don't even think I've ever spoken to Vincent Duval (if that's even the right name!)

[12:26:03] <RQ> :D

[12:26:05] <dancxjo> superfluous

[12:26:05] <RQ> cool

[12:26:09] <dancxjo> I agree totally

[12:26:13] <RQ> we need some MANAGEMENT here

[12:26:19] <dancxjo> :)

[12:26:26] <RQ> no, really

[12:26:33] <dancxjo> We've been having this conversation for a long time

[12:26:41] <RQ> we lack coordination :)

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[12:26:50] <kurain> well, we use zh_CN finally?

[12:26:55] <dancxjo> go for it, RQ

[12:26:57] <RQ> yes kurain

[12:27:20] <kurain> ok, I have just got a mail about this discussion

[12:27:25] <RQ> :)

[12:27:32] <dancxjo> kurain: I prefer zh_Hans (because that's what we've been using)

[12:27:40] <RQ> dancxjo: what do you mean by go for it?

[12:27:48] <dancxjo> but zh_CN makes more sense

[12:27:56] <RQ> dancxjo: it does make more sense indeed

[12:28:06] <kurain> well, in other projuct, zh_CN is common

[12:28:07] <RQ> at least to me, I think

[12:28:08] <RQ> :D

[12:28:14] <dancxjo> I posted it in the i18n ml, so let's hear what Pulkomandy has to say about how best to handle it

[12:28:23] <dancxjo> Ok

[12:28:26] <dancxjo> that does make sense

[12:28:46] <dancxjo> Now I  need to figure out how to roll that over

[12:29:31] <RQ> over what?

[12:29:44] <dancxjo> kurain: Are you the only Chinese (language) translator so far?

[12:30:00] <kurain> it seems that

[12:30:15] <kurain> it seems to be

[12:30:16] <dancxjo> I'm about to do an UPDATE translations SET language_id=zh_CN WHERE language_id=zh;

[12:31:14] <dancxjo> hmmmm

[12:31:14] <dancxjo> no, that's not right

[12:31:14] <dancxjo> I'm leaving it as just zn

[12:31:16] <RQ> why?

[12:31:24] <dancxjo> it makes more sense; for all other languages, we leave out _CC when we don't have a default

[12:31:29] <kurain> I have used some linux distribution , they use zh_cn for chinese language package

[12:31:54] <dancxjo> The pt translation, for instance is really pt_PT

[12:32:05] <dancxjo> and the en translation is really en_US

[12:32:30] <gluon> right

[12:32:31] <dancxjo> I makes sense to me that when someone chose for their system to be in zh, it is reasonable to default to zh_CN

[12:32:40] <dancxjo> no?

[12:32:46] <gluon> I agree

[12:33:05] <gluon> it should default to the original country

[12:33:39] <dancxjo> well...

[12:33:46] <dancxjo> in that case, en should be en_GB

[12:33:48] <dancxjo> !

[12:33:51] <PulkoMandy> it's not related to ICU, the failback is Haiku code

[12:34:06] <PulkoMandy> basically, xx_* will fallback to xx

[12:34:16] <PulkoMandy> whatever the x is, if there is no _* variant available

[12:34:18] <dancxjo> whoohoo! PulkoMandy...it's like Aslan has arrived...can you roar for us, PulkoMandy?

[12:34:32] <PulkoMandy> :)

[12:35:10] <RQ> dancxjo : I guess the thing is that you're not supposed to fall back from zh_TW to zh_CN

[12:35:51] <PulkoMandy> that will not happen

[12:35:57] <RQ> kurain: or should he?

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[12:36:14] <kurain> should be what?

[12:36:21] <PulkoMandy> it's only a writing difference, rigth ?

[12:36:35] <dancxjo> Well...no

[12:36:50] <RQ> kurain: , "does Hant fall back to Hans, vice versa or neither"

[12:36:55] <dancxjo> zh is special because (A) there are huge political tensions and (B) the script is different

[12:37:04] <RQ> or should we ask a taiwanese person here?

[12:37:14] <dancxjo> I don't think that would be helpful

[12:37:27] <kurain> well you make me confused

[12:37:29] <PulkoMandy> kurain: basically, for example, the pt_BR translation is handled as a difference from pt, so that if a string is not in pt_BR, the system will look in pt before failing back to another language set in the locale preflet

[12:37:47] <RQ> dancxjo: I think that you just named both reasons why there shouldn't be just "zh" nor the fallback

[12:37:58] <dancxjo> kurain: You think *you're* confused?!

[12:37:58] <PulkoMandy> should we do the same for zh_TW and look in zh, or should we not ?

[12:38:25] <kurain> you mean zh_cn will cause some problems?

[12:38:34] <dancxjo> PulkoMandy: I think we should sidestep the political issues by refering to the script rather than the country

[12:38:53] <PulkoMandy> well, I'm not changing the ISO standard for that :)

[12:39:07] <dancxjo> :)

[12:39:21] <dancxjo> All the systems I've ever seen distinguish zh_Hans and zh_Hant

[12:39:46] <dancxjo> kurain: Couldn't there be a zh_CN_Hant too?

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[12:40:40] <kurain> nop, I don't think it is a good idea

[12:41:19] <PulkoMandy> if you look at the locale preflet country tab, there are 9 different "zh" settings

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[12:41:56] <kurain> you mean i will be an admin of 9 languages?

[12:42:05] <RQ> dancxjo: zh_CN vs zh_TW is a tradition, I guess. that doesn't mean you can't use them elsewhere ;)

[12:42:26] <RQ> by the way, it's just a code after all

[12:42:42] <kurain> just like the haiku user guide does, we use zh_CN, it will be clearly

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[12:43:15] <dancxjo> :)

[12:43:46] <dancxjo> How about this: Until we have someone who complains, zh_CN is the default zh

[12:44:01] <kurain> well, it seems ok

[12:44:09] <dancxjo> The status quo reigns then. :)

[12:44:10] <PulkoMandy> yes... no reports, no bugfixes

[12:44:21] <PulkoMandy> this tends to solve a lot of issuesby itself :)

[12:44:40] <kurain> but ,I think some chinese using tradtional chinese will come here one day

[12:44:48] <RQ> doh

[12:44:57] <RQ> I really think you should special case it

[12:44:57] <RQ> :P

[12:45:20] <RQ> though I don't speak chinese, but I think you would have to, whenever a Taiwanese localizer would come up

[12:45:48] <kurain> I still don't know why we can't use both zh_CN and zh_TW?

[12:45:50] <RQ> dancxjo: I also don't see a reason why you want to be different from other software in that regard

[12:46:00] <dancxjo> I don't

[12:46:05] <PulkoMandy> I think besides the script, there would be differences like between fr_FR and fr_BE or fr_CA

[12:46:06] <dancxjo> Just tell me the standard

[12:46:11] <RQ> dancxjo but you want that default so badly :)

[12:46:13] <PulkoMandy> small things, but still important ones

[12:46:35] <RQ> just rename it and move on

[12:46:35] <RQ> ;)

[12:46:41] <dancxjo> http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh/Wikipedia:%E9%A6%96%E9%A1%B5

[12:46:55] <dancxjo> RENAME IT TO WHAT?!

[12:47:03] <PulkoMandy> dancxjo: couldn't hta find out by itself that something is identical between zh_CN andzh_TW and in this case automativally migrate it to zh ?

[12:47:14] <RQ> though apparently there is zh.wikipedia.org :)

[12:48:03] <PulkoMandy> wikipedia is language based only

[12:48:07] <kurain> a bad new ,except for zh_cn and zh_tw, there are some other chinese languages too

[12:48:26] <dancxjo> I was about to point out zh-classical. :)

[12:48:35] <RQ> dancxjo : to zh_CN

[12:48:41] <dancxjo> Incidentally, I'm interested in a Latin translation

[12:48:50] <dancxjo> okay

[12:49:03] <dancxjo> but when someone puts their system in chinese, it will be in english

[12:49:07] <RQ> dancxjo: ha, so you like unused languages? :D

[12:49:09] <PulkoMandy> RQ: wehave some differences between france and belgium, for example 08 is "quatre vingt" in french and "octante" in fr_BE

[12:49:18] <RQ> i know

[12:49:20] <PulkoMandy> but there is only one wikipedia for all of us

[12:49:39] <dancxjo> However, they don't write in Cyrillic in Belgium

[12:49:59] <RQ> PulkoMandy: they taught me french in school :)

[12:50:07] <RQ> though I forgot nearly everything...

[12:50:20] <PulkoMandy> :)

[12:50:41] <RQ> now I can only say "Je ne parle pas Francais" ;)

[12:50:46] <PulkoMandy> :)

[12:51:04] <RQ> (no cedilla on my keyboard)

[12:51:22] <kurain> I think you can just use chinese font "简体中文"for that

[12:51:31] <kurain> it should be better

[12:52:32] <dancxjo> HEY! Why don't we make a fr_Hans translation! :)

[12:53:05] <PulkoMandy> dancxjo: likely I can special-case "zh" and prevent it from being enabled in the locale preflet... but that would look like a bad solution :)

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[12:53:35] <kurain> god, I have found zh zh_hans, zh_cn on HTA

[12:53:52] <dancxjo> kurain: Do any programs ever use just plain zh?

[12:54:15] <kurain> just plain zh?

[12:54:16] <dancxjo> Firefox has a plain zh

[12:54:20] <dancxjo> yes

[12:54:25] <dancxjo> without other specifications

[12:54:27] <RQ> where?

[12:54:30] <dancxjo> I guess the question is:

[12:54:36] <kurain> well , I know nothing about that

[12:54:38] <RQ> dancxjo: it doesn't

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[12:54:51] <RQ> http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/all.html

[12:54:55] <RQ> look at download links

[12:55:08] <dancxjo> Would a hypothetical non-English Taiwanese person want to see Simplified characters on there screen or English

[12:55:26] <RQ> we should ask one

[12:55:26] <dancxjo> RQ: I'm talking about the language preferences settings

[12:55:31] <RQ> oh

[12:55:40] <RQ> I'm talking about software locales :)

[12:55:48] <kurain> why you could use en_CA, and en_GB, I think you could use zh_cn and zh_tw too?

[12:56:00] <RQ> kurain: it's not the question :)

[12:56:12] <RQ> we can

[12:56:14] <kurain> but what is the point

[12:56:45] <kurain> there are some technical problems?

[12:56:46] <RQ> the point is whether or not some there exists some base "zh".

[12:56:56] <RQ> the fallback

[12:56:58] <kurain> well

[12:57:10] <RQ> dancxjo: in any case, zh_cn should not fallback to zh_tw

[12:57:18] <RQ> I'm pretty sure about it :)

[12:57:24] <dancxjo> kurain: Would you be freaked out if you saw Traditional characters on your screen?

[12:57:32] <RQ> so it's either the other way around, or no fallback at all

[12:57:35] <kurain> I will

[12:58:00] * PulkoMandy note that Haiku doesn't provide a proper font for chinese anyway :)

[12:58:01] <dancxjo> so the solution is *not* zh_Hans falls back to zh_Hant...right?

[12:58:11] <dancxjo> Ooof!

[12:58:15] <kurain> I am borned with simplied chinese

[12:58:16] <dancxjo> That should be fixed!

[12:58:29] <RQ> does it fall back to traditional right now?

[12:58:32] <PulkoMandy> dancxjo: yes... there's an open ticket :)

[12:59:06] <kurain> ti is something wrong with the font you use?

[12:59:11] <dancxjo> RQ: ll_* falls back to ll

[12:59:25] <RQ> I think I could ask Mozilla Asia's lead about it ;)

[12:59:30] <RQ> he would know

[12:59:35] <dancxjo> Please do!

[12:59:38] <RQ> ok

[12:59:56] <dancxjo> Like I said, we *can't* be the first ones to have this conversation

[13:00:05] <RQ> but since my client doesn't support two different irc networks at once, I have to disconnect

[13:00:05] <RQ> :D

[13:00:09] <kurain> I think we should learn from some linux realeases , they do very well

[13:00:19] <PulkoMandy> dancxjo: I'm not sure gettext provides such a fallback system...

[13:00:54] <RQ> by the way, here's what zh* locales are available on Xeon3d's server: zh_CN zh_HK zh_TW

[13:01:58] <dancxjo> Browsers do, though

[13:02:05] <dancxjo> I expect

[13:02:17] <RQ> our browser could do that too

[13:02:28] <RQ> but I'm guessing the OS shouldn't

[13:04:14] <dancxjo> http://www.cocoabuilder.com/archive/cocoa/285727-determining-preferred-localizations.html

[13:04:16] <kurain> well. some body here have ever jioned some linux projects, we can ask them

[13:05:20] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37678 /haiku/trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs):

[13:05:21] <CIA-37> Added public io_request_is_vip(), returning whether the given request has the

[13:05:21] <CIA-37> VIP flag set.

[13:05:35] <kurain> well, I saw zh_CN in that mail list

[13:05:39] <dancxjo> I'm quoting here: Particularly in Chinese dialects, a region code is not always the best way to specify the proper dialect or script. For example, traditional Chinese (Han) is the default language spoken in Taiwan and is identified by the code zh_TW in Mac OS X v10.3.9 and earlier. However, traditional Chinese is also commonly spoken in Hong Kong and Macao, which means the zh_TW designator is not entirely accurate in those locations. The new s

[13:05:39] <dancxjo> tandard defines new tags for the traditional Chinese (Hant) and simplified Chinese (Hans) scripts. Thus, traditional Chinese spoken in any country uses the code zh-Hant. Traditional Chinese, as it is spoken in Taiwan, now uses the locale code zh-Hant_TW.

[13:06:13] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37679 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/userlandfs/private/Requests.h: Should have been part of r37678. io_request_is_vip() support.

[13:06:23] <dancxjo> http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPInternational/Articles/LanguageDesignations.html

[13:06:30] <dancxjo> I would *so* go with Apple on this!

[13:06:50] <RQ> so badly?

[13:07:01] <dancxjo> Even though there's no such thing as spoken traditional Chinese

[13:07:05] <kurain> well, there are so many reasons

[13:07:29] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37680 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Added rw_lock_read_lock_with_timeout().

[13:07:54] <mmu_screen> btw, if anyone wants to test R1/a1 against R1/a2 it's still available: http://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/haiku/releases/r1alpha1/

[13:08:30] <RQ> dancxjo: well, in any case, there's no "zh" in OS X

[13:08:31] <RQ> ;)

[13:08:56] <dancxjo> So

[13:09:00] <dancxjo> Let's say this then:

[13:09:13] <RQ> "zh-Hant" and "zh-Hans" may probably be better, considering we don't have any legacy to support

[13:09:32] <kurain> well, I still hold my idea

[13:09:34] <PulkoMandy> mh... better check what ICU does

[13:09:44] <PulkoMandy> or else it will be hard to enable them in the locale preflet :)

[13:10:04] <PulkoMandy> ok

[13:10:08] <PulkoMandy> that's how it works

[13:10:17] <PulkoMandy> I just have to filter out bare "zh" from the list

[13:11:02] <PulkoMandy> so go for zh-Hant_TW and friends

[13:11:17] <dancxjo> Ok, kurain: Just to be sure...you want me to move all current zh to zh_CN, right?

[13:11:24] <PulkoMandy> no:)

[13:11:25] <RQ> PulkoMandy : drop _TW then

[13:11:28] <kurain> ok

[13:11:38] <kurain> I agree

[13:11:42] <PulkoMandy> dancxjo: the "zh" doesn't exist

[13:11:50] <dancxjo> Yes

[13:11:58] <PulkoMandy> there are two different languages, zh-Hans and zh-Hant

[13:11:59] <dancxjo> which is why I need to eliminate translations labeled zh

[13:12:11] <PulkoMandy> then add the country code like for any other country

[13:12:14] <RQ> btw ICU has zh_Hans  and zh_Hant

[13:12:14] <dancxjo> ok

[13:12:14] <dancxjo> so

[13:12:21] <dancxjo> zh becomes zh_Hans (which is what it was supposed to be)

[13:12:32] <PulkoMandy> zh-Hans

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[13:12:44] <PulkoMandy> the underscore separates it from the country

[13:12:44] <RQ> yes, with a dash

[13:13:22] <PulkoMandy> so we can have zh-Hans_TW later for the slight differences with zh-Hans (implied _CN)

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[13:13:37] <dancxjo> Am I sure I want to delete 体字?

[13:13:38] <RQ> no, you get zh-Hans later

[13:13:43] <RQ> why do you want "_TW"?

[13:13:56] <PulkoMandy> why not ?

[13:14:22] <PulkoMandy> it's like fr_FR and fr_BE

[13:14:32] <RQ> PulkoMandy : what's "fr" then?

[13:14:52] <PulkoMandy> I can speak with belgian guys without any problems, but still having my computer use fr_BE would feel strange

[13:14:54] <RQ> fr_FR == fr, isn't it?

[13:15:36] <PulkoMandy> yes

[13:15:46] <RQ> I suggest zh-Hans, zh-Hant, and then if say HongKong wants their own locale, it would be named zh-Hant_HK

[13:15:58] <PulkoMandy> yes, that's it

[13:16:08] <dancxjo> ok, kurain (or kurain1): You may now find you work under zh_Hans (Simplified Chinese)

[13:16:14] <RQ> but zh-Hant_TW is superflous

[13:16:21] <dancxjo> and zh_CN = zh_Hans

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[13:16:29] <PulkoMandy> dancxjo: it's zh-Hans, not zh_Hans

[13:16:35] <PulkoMandy> or else ICU will be messed up

[13:16:46] <dancxjo> Really?

[13:16:48] <dancxjo> ooof

[13:16:48] <PulkoMandy> yes

[13:16:49] <dancxjo> ok

[13:17:07] <kurain1> well ,how could you do that?

[13:17:15] <PulkoMandy> zh-Hans and zh-Hant are NOT country variants of zh

[13:17:19] <PulkoMandy> they are two separate languages

[13:17:31] <PulkoMandy> which can each have country variants if needed

[13:17:47] <RQ> yes

[13:18:08] <dancxjo> There

[13:18:12] <dancxjo> all set

[13:19:28] <dancxjo> I'm glad we did this. :) Thank you, kurain1

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[13:20:43] <dancxjo> welcome back...again, kurain

[13:20:53] <RQ> PulkoMandy: why do all links here use ll_CC form: http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/i18n?

[13:21:13] <RQ> like http://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/i18n/ru_RU/Info, for example

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[13:21:28] <dancxjo> RQ wants userguide and translation people to come under the same umbrella

[13:21:41] <dancxjo> He thinks we suffer from lack of management/coordination :)

[13:21:58] <kurain> well, I should keep the HTA and the user guide the same

[13:22:07] <RQ> dancxjo: these are two distinct issues :P

[13:22:43] <PulkoMandy> RQ: there is no fallback system for the userguide

[13:22:54] <PulkoMandy> so, full translation work for every country, Iguess

[13:23:07] <RQ> PulkoMandy : but most languages don't have sublocales

[13:23:10] <RQ> ru_RU is pointless

[13:23:19] <RQ> cause there's no other ru_XX

[13:23:28] <RQ> at least generally

[13:25:36] <kurain> there are some more better ideas ?

[13:26:02] <PulkoMandy> ask VinDuv about it, no idea about the userguideactually :)

[13:26:07] <RQ> PulkoMandy: I think those country codes could be stripped from there :)

[13:26:51] <kurain> maybe we shold ask for humdinger or kokito for some help

[13:26:52] <PulkoMandy> ask VinDuv, again, it's part of the userguide stuff

[13:27:26] <RQ> kurain : help on what?

[13:27:55] <kurain> the determination about the II_CC

[13:28:27] <kurain> the former HT

[13:28:47] <kurain> the earlier HTA can work well on this ?

[13:29:22] <RQ> current HTA works well on this ;) I was only talking about our l10n Wiki

[13:29:27] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37681 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/vm/vm_page.cpp: (log message trimmed)

[13:29:28] <CIA-37> * PageWriteWrapper::Done(): Returns whether the page was successfully written,

[13:29:28] <CIA-37> now.

[13:29:28] <CIA-37> * PageWriterRun::Go(): Returns the number of pages that could not be written.

[13:29:28] <CIA-37> * page_writer()/next_modified_page():

[13:30:41] <kurain> i10n wiki ? I just heared about the in the mailing list

[13:31:43] <dancxjo> ME TOO, kurain!

[13:31:49] <dancxjo> :)

[13:32:08] <dancxjo> Apparently, you can modify your page

[13:32:10] <kurain> and I am reading the mails, need further reading and learning about that

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[13:34:21] <kurain> but I wish no matter the I10n or HTA, they should be kept with haiku user guide, they shouldn't be separated as two things

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[13:36:24] <PulkoMandy> someone should write a guide

[13:37:00] <dancxjo> more like someoneS. I don't know anyone who knows both systems

[13:37:00] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37682 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/vm/vm_page.cpp:

[13:37:00] <CIA-37> page_writer(): Fixed the pagesSinceLastSuccessfulWrite computation. Only the

[13:37:00] <CIA-37> skipped pages were added, not the failed ones.

[13:37:23] <dancxjo> And I'm afraid you and I are the only ones who really understand the HTA system

[13:38:46] <kurain> yes, for now I know nothing about the HTA system, except for that I can translate, haha:-(

[13:39:29] <PulkoMandy> well, I just learnt I was language manager for french

[13:39:55] <dancxjo> HA!

[13:40:14] <HeTo> isn't there a Russian Belarus locale? at least the government of Belarus is very positive towards Russian I've heard

[13:40:27] <HeTo> much more positive towards Russian than towards Belarus, anyway

[13:41:07] <kurain> I will go out for a dinner, so see you later

[13:41:54] <HeTo> in any case, just because there is no need for a country-specific locale now, doesn't mean there never will be

[13:42:58] <dancxjo> bon apétit, kurain

[13:45:01] <dancxjo> HeTo: If any Russian speak Belarussian ever emails me that their dialect is sufficiently different from standard Russian, I should be happy to assist them in making a ru_BY catalog :)

[13:45:09] <dancxjo> *Russian-speaking

[13:46:05] <HeTo> dancxjo: locales don't deal just with language, there's money, measurement, time/date, paper size and collation issues as well

[13:46:12] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37683 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/fs/File.cpp:

[13:46:12] <CIA-37> * File::_UpdateLevelInfos(): Fixed child count computation. Was incorrect (0)

[13:46:12] <CIA-37> for multiple of kFileBlockMaxCount block counts.

[13:46:12] <CIA-37> * File::_GrowTree(): The inner loop of the level addition part was bogus.

[13:46:12] <CIA-37> Apparently I never tested with files >= 2 MB before.

[13:46:33] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37684 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/fs/BlockAllocator.cpp: Typo in debug output.

[13:46:55] <dancxjo> true dat

[13:47:00] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37685 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/fs/Node.h: Added ReadLockWithTimeout().

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[13:56:36] <RQ> dancxjo : belarussians have their own language I think

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[13:57:23] <dancxjo> rq: scroll up]

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[13:58:19] <RQ> HeTo: the point is that ru_RU is _base_ russian

[13:58:27] <RQ> ru_BY would be a derivative

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[14:06:26] <CIA-37> axeld * r37686 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/kits/net/icmp/udp_unreachable.cpp:

[14:06:26] <CIA-37> * Fixed the application to actually take the host argument into account, sigh.

[14:06:26] <CIA-37> * Cleanup.

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[14:17:29] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37687 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/fs/checksumfs.cpp: (log message trimmed)

[14:17:29] <CIA-37> * checksumfs_lookup(): The flags return parameter was never set, leading to

[14:17:29] <CIA-37> weird behavior when running in kernel.

[14:17:29] <CIA-37> * checksumfs_io(): Try to lock with timeout when the request is VIP. This

[14:17:29] <CIA-37> works around a potential quasi-deadlock: Most write support FS hooks

[14:23:30] <CIA-37> axeld * r37688 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)

[14:23:30] <CIA-37> * Implemented a way to preserve header data while passing along a buffer to the

[14:23:30] <CIA-37> upper layers: you use the store_header() function to mark the header you want

[14:23:30] <CIA-37> to preserve. All subsequent remove_header() calls won't claim the actual

[14:23:30] <CIA-37> data, but only move the node start around.

[14:29:28] <kurain> hello , I am back

[14:29:36] <RQ> welcome back

[14:32:26] <CIA-37> axeld * r37689 /haiku/trunk/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs):

[14:32:26] <CIA-37> * On Haiku, ifreq::ifr_name always includes the trailing null byte. Adjusted

[14:32:26] <CIA-37> userland code to take this into account (the kernel would just cut off the

[14:32:26] <CIA-37> name).

[14:32:26] <CIA-37> * This closes ticket #6280.

[14:33:08] <kurain> what about pootle now?

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[14:33:41] <KuribosShoe> Wow, haiku certainly looks interesting!

[14:34:14] <KuribosShoe> I'll say you did a great job on it. Shame all my PCs can't run it or are too old...

[14:35:10] <kurain> hello kuribosshoe

[14:35:17] <KuribosShoe> hello kurain

[14:35:41] <KuribosShoe> so I'm gonna try out the original BeOS on my older PC

[14:36:03] <KuribosShoe> does anyone know of a way toshoehorn BONE on the ol' BeOS 5 PE?

[14:36:22] <KuribosShoe> Almost every networking app uses it :/

[14:39:01] <KuribosShoe> hello?

[14:40:40] <kurain> RQ:there is something wrong with translation to chinese,in "About View",when translating "%d Mib total", can I exchange "%d Mib "and "total" ?

[14:41:22] <kurain> also I have to make some changes when translating blocks after that

[14:43:44] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37690 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs):

[14:43:44] <CIA-37> WIP Timezone support

[14:43:44] <CIA-37> * BCountry can list the timezones applicable for the country

[14:43:44] <CIA-37> * BCountry can give its name (for example France), or LocaleName (french (France)). The second one will later be moved to BLocale class along with

[14:43:44] <CIA-37> most of the locale settings ; but this needs a bit of refactoring.

[14:45:19] <KuribosShoe> does anyone know if haiku will run on 64 MB of ram? I've got a Pentium 3 clocked at 500 mhz in the PC if it helps

[14:46:05] <PulkoMandy> I can't remember if the limit is 48 or 84 MB...

[14:54:17] <RQ> PulkoMandy: an idea for you: use positional modifiers in catkeys

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[14:54:32] <RQ> e.g. instead of "%d MiB total, %d MiB inaccessible", write "%1$d MiB total, %2$d MiB inaccessible

[14:55:18] <PulkoMandy> %d should not be anywhere

[14:55:28] <PulkoMandy> should be %total and %accessible or so :)

[14:55:28] <RQ> that was just an example

[14:55:50] <RQ> very few localisers will know how to swap printf modifiers

[14:55:59] <PulkoMandy> if you see things like that, report them to me

[14:56:15] <RQ> you mean you have already implemented stuff like %total?

[14:56:23] <PulkoMandy> yes

[14:56:26] <RQ> ah

[14:56:27] <RQ> ok

[14:56:31] <RQ> it's the AboutView

[14:56:41] <PulkoMandy> the BString API we use has a nice ReplaceFirst function

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[14:56:53] <PulkoMandy> that's why we don't use sprintf and this kind of things :)

[14:57:00] <PulkoMandy> ok, I'll look :)

[14:57:05] <CIA-37> axeld * r37691 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/stack/routes.cpp:

[14:57:05] <CIA-37> * Make sure the interface matches to the route if given. This fixes problem 1 of

[14:57:05] <CIA-37> bug #6243.

[14:57:13] <RQ> PulkoMandy: what if I will want to use a modifier more than once?

[14:57:38] <RQ> that's a rare edge case, but printf allows it

[14:58:50] <PulkoMandy> we use ReplaceFirst, so it means you can't swap them in the translation

[14:59:28] <RQ> you mean %2$d won't even work?

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[15:02:44] <RQ> PulkoMandy : by the way, in the translator handbook post you didn't mention one column of the catkeys file header row.

[15:02:55] <PulkoMandy> it work if the string is already done like that

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[15:03:15] <PulkoMandy> well, actually some parts of the code use sprintf, so there it will work

[15:03:18] <PulkoMandy> but not always

[15:03:21] <RQ> :D

[15:03:23] <RQ> cool

[15:03:53] <PulkoMandy> we don't use %d when it doesn't work, either %nameofitem or simply %1, %2, ...

[15:03:54] <CIA-37> axeld * r37692 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/stack/ (domains.cpp routes.h):

[15:03:54] <CIA-37> * We need to invalidate all routes belonging to the interface when removing it.

[15:03:54] <CIA-37> * This fixes the second problem mentioned in bug #6243, and therefore the bug

[15:03:54] <CIA-37> itself.

[15:04:19] <PulkoMandy> this is something that should go in the coding guidelines, now that I think of it...

[15:04:41] <RQ> why did you go with replaceFirst instead of printf, btw ?

[15:04:58] <RQ> i mean, with a custom function that basically does the same

[15:05:24] <HeTo> it doesn't do nearly the same

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[15:05:58] <HeTo> but there's no BString::sprintf but BString::ReplaceFirst has to be implemented to be compatible with the Be API so that is already there

[15:06:11] <RQ> oh

[15:06:25] <HeTo> and dealing with C strings is dangerous and a pain

[15:06:52] <matthias9> uhmm

[15:07:33] <PulkoMandy> yes, the function is existing stuff that happen to do the job well

[15:07:44] <Hodapp> C strings aren't that hard to deal with, really...

[15:07:55] <matthias9> Hodapp: yapp

[15:08:07] <matthias9> or one could say, compared to what?

[15:08:23] <Hodapp> ever used the Windows API and how it does strings?

[15:08:35] <matthias9> I try hard not to remember :p

[15:09:04] <Hodapp> I'm always stuck trying to figure out how to turn a string into a LPCFSTRPWCHPFSPCHWCH or something

[15:09:04] <HeTo> they are if you don't know how much memory you should reserve

[15:09:40] <Hodapp> not to be confused with a LPCFSTRWCHPFSPCHPWCH

[15:09:46] <matthias9> HeTo: but that's a problem you always have, just maybe you're API is hiding them from you

[15:10:34] <HeTo> matthias9: exactly, so you don't need to deal with it everywhere where you do something to a string that might enlarge it

[15:10:51] <HeTo> matthias9: but instead implement that once in the OS libraries

[15:11:04] <matthias9> HeTo: that's something you can encapsulate in some API and just use it

[15:11:15] <matthias9> on the othe rhand there might be situations where you do not want to do this

[15:11:19] <Hodapp> as long as you're implementing it in a way that makes sense and is easy to convert, not making it some broken-ass inconsistent abstraction layer.

[15:11:26] <Hodapp> *cough*C++ & MS API*cough*

[15:11:31] <PulkoMandy> BString.String()

[15:11:32] <PulkoMandy> :)

[15:11:39] <matthias9> e.g. memory allocation is not always a fast operation

[15:11:52] <PulkoMandy> wxWidgets is also quite annoying, depending on if your locale is utf8 or not, the same code compile or not

[15:11:56] <matthias9> if you do it a lot it's not nice

[15:11:57] <PulkoMandy> quite fun.

[15:12:07] <matthias9> so it's not always a good thing that such stuff is hidden from you

[15:12:17] <matthias9> you sometimes want to control it explicitly

[15:12:24] <PulkoMandy> BString is pretty clever, it keep the unused memory so when the string grows again its fast

[15:13:16] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37693 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/AboutSystem.cpp: * Fix unpractical translation string in AboutSystem.

[15:14:13] <matthias9> that's not clever if I know that I never need that again;  my point is not that there is no nice API that makes it easier to handle strings

[15:14:48] <matthias9> and I do not think it is that dangerous (except for lazy people, etc.)

[15:15:04] <matthias9> the drawback of C is basically that you have no runtime checks and have to write them by hand

[15:15:17] <matthias9> on the other hand you can remove unrequired runtime checks easily

[15:15:55] <matthias9> anyway - bbl

[15:20:08] <PulkoMandy> you can BString.Truncate(0,true); if you want to free the memory

[15:20:16] <PulkoMandy> or Truncate(0) if you want to keep it

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[15:32:00] <CIA-37> stippi * r37694 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/servers/app/window_creation/ (Jamfile main.cpp):

[15:32:00] <CIA-37> Patch by Karvjorm: Fix build of the window_creation app_server test. Thanks!

[15:32:00] <CIA-37> Closes ticket #6358.

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[15:44:57] <leszek> hi

[15:46:02] <leszek> is there joypad or joystick support on haiku , I am trying to use a logitech shockwave controller over usb

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[15:51:18] <CIA-37> stippi * r37695 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/servers/app/window_creation/main.cpp:

[15:51:18] <CIA-37> * Style cleanup.

[15:51:18] <CIA-37> * Include correct header for strcmp().

[15:51:35] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37696 /haiku/trunk/ (headers/os/locale/Country.h src/kits/locale/Country.cpp):

[15:51:35] <CIA-37> * BCountry : use lazy initialisation for the date and time formatters, since they are not always used. Makes instancaiating a country faster, and

[15:51:35] <CIA-37> so, loading the locale preflet is also faster and use less memory.

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[16:34:05] <RQ> PulkoMandy : which component/subcomponent should I file my bugs/enhancement requests about how we handle keyboards?

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[16:39:09] <PulkoMandy> preference/keymaps should do

[16:39:18] <PulkoMandy> we can reassign them later if it's not ok

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[17:17:48] <ali3n0_> hi folks

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[17:31:57] <kallisti5> is it me or has nohaikuforme been trollin' for a long time now?

[17:32:24] <kallisti5> i see irc logs about him trollin' from as early as 2008

[17:32:51] <ali3n0> reading user guide... Can't really understand what replicants are needed for

[17:34:00] <leszek> ali3n0: they more or less similiar to widgets or plasmoids or gadgets or however you may call those nifty little apps running on your desktop

[17:34:03] <kallisti5> ali3n0: replicants are like widgets

[17:34:10] <leszek> LOL

[17:34:15] * kallisti5 types too slowly

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[17:36:58] <ali3n0> ok. so if I create a replicant it will stay there after reboot too?

[17:37:29] <leszek> it should I guess

[17:37:30] <bbjimmy> ali3n0 yes

[17:38:02] <ali3n0> ah ok, got it now. tnx

[17:39:27] <PulkoMandy> the icons in deskbar are replicants too

[17:39:34] <PulkoMandy> (processcontroller, ...)

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[17:43:53] <mmu_screen> ROTFL: http://revolf.free.fr/osx/shots/shot_safari_does_not_know_http.png

[17:44:41] <leszek> LOL

[17:47:31] <ali3n0> how do I ask nic interface to pull from dhcp?

[17:49:46] <ali3n0> nevermind

[17:50:29] <kurain> bye all, time to sleep now

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[18:01:25] <helf> hey jmayfield_

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[18:24:01] <jmayfield_> hi helf

[18:24:29] <helf> hola, hows things?

[18:25:48] <jmayfield_> good... new job is good

[18:26:17] <RQ> hm

[18:26:57] <helf> new job again?

[18:27:06] <RQ> I removed a replicant from my desktop, and now the place it occupied isn't being redrawn

[18:27:29] <helf> you need an ink refill !

[18:27:43] <PulkoMandy> :p

[18:27:54] <jmayfield_> helf, disney is shutting down IMD, so i got the hell out.. landed a sweet work-from-home gig

[18:29:16] <helf> oh lame

[18:29:41] <helf> the first part

[18:29:43] <helf> not the latter :p

[18:29:44] <jmayfield_> i dunno.. i am glad to be out of that world.

[18:29:49] <helf> the latter is awesome

[18:29:54] <jmayfield_> yeah, it is

[18:30:41] <jmayfield_> new job came with a new macbook pro too.. no complaints, other than osx being retarded :-p

[18:31:03] <helf> its that candy coating your dont really like but are addicted to

[18:31:08] <dancxjo> r-word

[18:31:17] <helf> r-word?

[18:31:31] <dancxjo> and before you used the l-word (not lesbian or love, but lame)

[18:31:38] <dancxjo> What have you got against the disabled?

[18:31:43] <helf> oh my god

[18:31:46] <helf> i hope you are trolling

[18:32:00] <jmayfield_> what do you have against the physically disabled (lame)?

[18:32:09] <helf> heh

[18:32:16] <helf> ddear god. I cant escape this bullshit even online

[18:32:19] <jmayfield_> ya know wahts more offensive than the word retard? people getting hung up on it

[18:32:24] <helf> yeah, really

[18:32:35] <helf> "oh oh, im getting offended"

[18:32:59] <jmayfield_> "oh, my sensibilities!!"

[18:33:06] <helf> haha

[18:33:19] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37697 /haiku/trunk/ (headers/os/locale/Country.h src/kits/locale/Country.cpp):

[18:33:19] <CIA-37> * BCountry : add error checking in case the system runs out of memory, cleanup function prototypes (we don't need virtual, this was a leftover of

[18:33:19] <CIA-37> OpenTracker days)

[18:33:35] <jmayfield_> anyway.. osx is retarded.. dunno how else to express it

[18:33:57] <helf> jmayfield_, well, you can slap your chest when referring to it

[18:34:08] <jmayfield_> i do.. duh

[18:34:13] <helf> heh

[18:34:52] <helf> get to cover the physical and mental handicaps all at once :D

[18:35:42] <jmayfield_> the weird thing is how somebody heard 'person" when i said "os"

[18:36:20] <helf> Its the same people that scream racism whenever they can twist someones words out of context

[18:36:21] <jmayfield_> i dont want to talk about retarded people.. its kinda depressing

[18:36:54] * jmayfield_ watched a documentary about nuke testing in nevada last night

[18:37:03] <helf> I dunno, I went to school with a mentally challenged kid. he was a blast. :p always happy

[18:37:12] <helf> jmayfield_, did it cover all the mutants that are springing up?

[18:37:18] <jmayfield_> yeah

[18:38:24] <jmayfield_> my highschool had a huge 'rretarded' population.. they even got cards that read "special spartans (school mascot)"

[18:38:35] <jmayfield_> pretty f'ing disturbing, i always thought

[18:38:46] <helf> heh

[18:39:11] <jmayfield_> especially since "class" for them was usually doing janitorial work

[18:39:55] <jmayfield_> there was a yearly 'special' basketball game between us and the HS form a nearby town..

[18:40:13] <jmayfield_> which was pretty entertaining

[18:40:31] <helf> lol, sounds like it

[18:40:44] <jmayfield_> i've probably mentioned it before.. but damn,.. its weird

[18:41:09] <helf> i dont remember.

[18:41:36] <jmayfield_> my favorite was this one kid.. he;d stand there twiddling fingers and drooling, slight rocking going on.. but anytime the ball came to him he'd 'wake up' and make an insanely amazing shot

[18:42:13] <helf> ha, wow

[18:42:43] <jmayfield_> the most disturbing thing about this game though was that most teachers gave you extra credit for skipping class to attend the game

[18:43:17] <jmayfield_> i know, support the special spartans and all.. but its just weird, seeing as to most high schoolsers, its about pointing and laughing more than supporting anything

[18:43:25] <helf> lol, yeah

[18:43:28] <helf> ok, lunch. bbiab :)

[18:49:29] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37698 /haiku/trunk/ (headers/os/locale/Country.h src/kits/locale/Country.cpp): * Style fixes (some pointed out by Axel, some others by the vim stylechecker).

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[18:49:57] <CIA-37> zooey * r37699 /haiku/branches/developer/zooey/posix-locale/ (30 files in 7 dirs):

[18:49:57] <CIA-37> * renamed libroot-addon-locale.so to libroot-addon-icu.so and prepared the

[18:49:57] <CIA-37> support for more than one backend living in there

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[19:01:05] <The123king> Has GreenTube suddenly stopped working or is it me?

[19:04:41] <RQ> hm, can i thread my email messages in Tracker?

[19:07:21] <jmayfield_> yes

[19:07:41] <RQ> how?

[19:07:42] <jmayfield_> saved queries make for a nice simple email filtering system too

[19:08:04] <jmayfield_> oh, read IN tracker.. duno what you mean

[19:08:22] <RQ> well, tracker has email functionality

[19:08:32] <RQ> or doesn't it?

[19:08:57] <jmayfield_> dunno what you mean

[19:09:21] <RQ> which part is confusing?

[19:09:31] <jmayfield_> the vagueness

[19:10:57] <jmayfield_> 'email functionality' is a rather broad notion

[19:11:11] <jmayfield_> or can be construed as such

[19:11:19] <RQ> well, I configured my accounts in Mail preflet

[19:11:45] <RQ> now the email is being fetched to /boot/home/mail

[19:12:01] <RQ> so I guess i'm supposed to browse my messages using Tracker, no ?

[19:12:07] <jmayfield_> sure

[19:12:11] <RQ> that I call email functionality

[19:12:41] <jmayfield_> ok, but when yuou click a mail, you dont read it in tracker

[19:12:52] <jmayfield_> thats where i got all questiony

[19:12:56] <RQ> ok

[19:13:04] <RQ> so what I want is to thread that list

[19:13:15] <RQ> because without threading, it's basically useless for me...

[19:13:37] <jmayfield_> i have never liked threaded mail

[19:13:45] <jmayfield_> i lke new mail on top

[19:13:46] <RQ> I can't live without it :_)

[19:13:55] <RQ> I like new threads on top

[19:13:59] <jmayfield_> heh

[19:14:03] <RQ> well, threads with new mail

[19:14:16] <RQ> and I like them collapsed

[19:14:20] <RQ> and to expand them

[19:14:25] <RQ> I guess tracker won't do that?

[19:14:25] <jmayfield_> it seems silly if/when all the thread is in each mail

[19:14:38] <jmayfield_> i don thtinmk so

[19:14:39] <RQ> eh?

[19:14:44] <PulkoMandy> RQ: no we don't support it yet

[19:14:51] <RQ> what do you mean all the thread is in each mail?

[19:15:09] <RQ> the thread is in the message listing, not in the message itself

[19:15:14] <RQ> PulkoMandy do you plan to?

[19:15:21] <jmayfield_> when peopel respond to a mail leaving the previous message intact

[19:15:30] <jmayfield_> the the entire thread is in each mail

[19:15:41] <PulkoMandy> RQ: I'd like to have it sometimes... but not sure it's possible

[19:16:07] <PulkoMandy> using queries it's mostly fine, however

[19:16:12] <jmayfield_> threading could maube be approximated with clever queries?

[19:16:15] <PulkoMandy> you can find what you want pretty quickly

[19:16:21] <jmayfield_> queries on subject.. heh

[19:17:04] <RQ> jmayfield_ well, that I don't like too, especially when it's useless.

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[19:23:28] <Anarchos> is there a haiku book in the alpha2 ?

[19:27:29] <mmadia> what do you mean by haiku book.

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[19:30:03] <mmu_screen> bebook ?

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[19:41:37] *** Rimas is now known as RQ

[19:41:50] <RQ> heh, I just managed to crash Haiku

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[19:47:11] <bubsy> RQ, congratulations. You're now a normal person

[19:49:09] <RQ> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/6362

[19:49:15] <RQ> oops

[19:49:27] <RQ> wrong tab

[19:49:35] <gluon> where in the source tree are the implementation of the video drivers?

[19:50:25] <mmadia> http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers

[19:51:11] <gluon> oh, it's under add-ons... thanks

[19:53:46] <gluon> is there anyone working on supporting the ATI Radeon HD series?

[19:54:31] <mmadia> check the revision history for radeon & radeon_hd

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[20:08:20] <brobostigon> evening all.

[20:08:55] <RQ> evening

[20:09:12] <brobostigon> evening RQ

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[20:22:49] <mmu_screen> hmm how big are the raw images ??

[20:24:04] <mmu_screen> ah 500MB

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[20:42:33] * ali3n0 wonders if sshd should be started up by default on r1a2

[20:43:10] <gluon> why?

[20:45:10] <ali3n0> gluon cause I've got 2 installations and in one of those I can see sshd running

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[20:55:46] <gluon> how can I try a different graphics driver (radeon instead of vesa)? Is this possible?

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[21:05:07] <ali3n0> I've found the anomaly. One installation was lacking of directory /var/empty, so sshd wasn't loading

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[21:14:18] <Anarchos> how to overload a virtual method ? Should i declare my overloading virtual too in C++ ?

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[21:17:37] <luroh> gluon: if there is a matching driver for your card, it will be loaded

[21:18:11] <luroh> if vesa is loaded, that means your card is not supported by the radeon driver

[21:18:58] <mmadia> eeehh... vesa always loads.

[21:19:14] <mmadia> as it's used to display the boot screen, iirc

[21:19:16] <luroh> yeah

[21:19:38] <luroh> sorry, i should have said "if the radeon driver is not loaded"

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[21:45:44] <RQ> A crash I can reproduce: go to Backgrounds preflet and click on Favorits

[21:45:53] <RQ> that moment the preflet crashes

[21:47:55] <luroh> click on...what?

[21:48:49] <RQ> oh right

[21:49:23] <RQ> go to Background Preflet, choose Other... image, then click on Favorites

[21:49:39] <RQ> in the file selection dialog, that is

[21:50:01] <RQ> at least on my version of Haiku, the preflet crashes

[21:50:07] <luroh> no crash here

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[21:50:57] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o PacoLinux

[21:51:02] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o PacoLinux

[21:51:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o PulkoMandy

[21:51:09] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o PulkoMandy

[21:51:19] <mmadia> .... stupid finger failure.

[21:52:30] <PacoLinux> XD

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[21:54:02] <CyberKitsune> A lot of changes to the network stack I see

[21:54:17] <CyberKitsune> any possible chance of wpa_supplicant working fully then soon?

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[22:04:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man

[22:07:15] <Shisui> CyberKitsune, Axel D. will work under contract on some wireless related stuff, check the recent news :)

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[22:15:16] <CIA-37> mmu_man * r37700 /haiku/trunk/data/ (2 files in 2 dirs):

[22:15:17] <CIA-37> Launch the notification_server at boot.

[22:15:17] <CIA-37> Add notification when mime sniffing files on first boot, at least it gives a visual indication of why so much cpu is consumed.

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[22:17:40] <PulkoMandy> mmu_man: you used 0.1 progress twice ...

[22:21:31] <mmu_screen> ah yes 0.0 :)

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[22:32:22] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37701 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/slab/ (MemoryManager.cpp MemoryManager.h):

[22:32:22] <CIA-37> Moved the Area structure from the beginning of area to one page inside the

[22:32:22] <CIA-37> area. The first page is not mapped, so someone writing over the bounds of the

[22:32:22] <CIA-37> previous area will be axed immediately.

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[22:38:38] <CIA-37> mmu_man * r37702 /haiku/trunk/data/common/boot/post_install/mime_update.sh:

[22:38:38] <CIA-37> Progress starts at 0.0 :)

[22:38:38] <CIA-37> Use a 30s timeout in between, so it stays displayed even in qemu where things are a bit slow.

[22:43:52] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37703 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/slab/MemoryManager.cpp:

[22:43:52] <CIA-37> Free(), FreeRawOrReturnCache(), GetAllocationInfo(), CacheForAddress(): Check

[22:43:52] <CIA-37> Assert that the meta chunk the given address lies in is actually in use.

[22:45:44] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37704 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/slab/MemoryManager.h: Remove unused macro.

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[23:46:01] * Ziusudra stabs vista in the eye

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[23:46:42] <Ziusudra> ... with a shovel

[23:47:00] <prizm> anyone know of a build of firefox or seamonkey that doesn't use BONE?

[23:47:23] <prizm> I'm planning to install BeOS 5 PE on an old box for the shits and giggles

[23:47:34] <prizm> so it's either no bone using browsers or a hack to add bone

[23:47:44] <prizm> also, haiku's system requirements are too high for the box

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[23:48:45] <cpr420> http://www.bebits.com/app/3143

[23:49:01] <prizm> does it use BONE?

[23:49:07] <prizm> nvm I see

[23:49:11] <prizm> OK

[23:49:33] <prizm> I'd prefer seamonkey, but Firefox is good enough

[23:49:47] <cpr420> I'm sure there is one floating around on bebits

[23:50:07] <cpr420> http://www.bebits.com/app/2310

[23:50:09] <stpere> in the related links actually

[23:51:03] <prizm> nvm

[23:51:12] <prizm> I'm blind to see special builds :P

[23:51:53] <prizm> so yeah, I'll do that later once I install it

[23:52:22] <prizm> hahahahah

[23:52:51] <prizm> Haiku does look good though, but I;ll wait till beta before I try it on my stabke PC

[23:53:09] <prizm> my others can't boot from removal media or like this one, are too damn slow to run haiku

[23:54:50] *** prizm is now known as CommieYoshi|afk

[23:54:53] *** CommieYoshi|afk is now known as prizm

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top

   July 22, 2010  
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