July 21, 2010 
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July 21, 2010 [00:02:28] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[00:03:18] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[00:12:25] <Duggan> hmmm the same workspace problem I was having earlier has cropped up again, even with a 3x3 setup[00:13:30] *** kmargar is now known as markos_[00:14:14] *** RQ has quit IRC[00:24:41] *** jvff has joined #haiku[00:26:28] *** srbaker_ has joined #haiku[00:28:39] *** srbaker has quit IRC[00:28:40] *** srbaker_ is now known as srbaker[00:39:20] *** jvff has quit IRC[00:43:32] <Duggan> how would I go about changing the default swap size in my builds?[00:44:23] <Duggan> oh duh[00:44:32] <Duggan> thats only when I copy an existing partition....[00:47:59] <dru345> :D[00:48:37] <Duggan> ok, off to test a gcc4 (nonhybrid) build...[00:48:47] <Duggan> I wonder if my nic drivers are fixed....[00:48:50] <Duggan> oh well... l8r folks[00:49:02] *** Duggan has quit IRC[00:50:45] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[00:51:46] *** Duggan has joined #haiku[00:51:50] <Duggan> nope[00:52:30] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:53:50] *** raichoo has quit IRC[00:55:33] <l_n> foo.[00:57:22] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[01:01:45] <l_n> leave it to GNU to package their source tarballs with the latest config.guess and config.sub :)[01:03:10] <Duggan> erm what license is LKL under?[01:04:19] *** cpr420 has quit IRC[01:04:31] <Duggan> btw l_n, I'm giving up on BSD :/[01:04:49] <l_n> Duggan: probably GPLv3[01:05:05] <Duggan> l_n then how is it being implemented in Haiku?[01:05:15] <l_n> wait.. it might be lgpl[01:06:00] <dru345> Duggan doesn't it follow if LKL is the linux kernel in library form that it was out *shudder* GPL?[01:07:04] <Duggan> if its the linux kernel in library form I would assume it's GPLed...[01:07:41] <Duggan> but then again, they're using gdb for KDLs so whatever allows them to do that may also allow them to use LKL.... I dunno...[01:07:49] <Duggan> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm[01:07:53] <Duggan> so let me get this right....[01:08:02] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[01:08:04] <Duggan> theres this debugger program thats being developed...[01:08:07] <Duggan> hey cpr420[01:08:07] <dru345> http://github.com/lkl/lkl-linux-2.6#readme[01:08:15] <dru345> hi cpr420[01:09:11] <dru345> looks like GPL2[01:09:44] <Duggan> http://github.com/lkl/lkl-linux-2.6/blob/master/COPYING[01:09:56] <Duggan> as I was saying ;)[01:10:02] <Duggan> theres this debugger program being developed which isn't finished yet[01:10:13] <Duggan> and my understanding is that its not based on gdb or anything at all....[01:10:25] <Duggan> so why couldn't it (or parts of it) be used in KDL instead of gdb...[01:10:42] <Duggan> that would be sweet :)[01:10:44] <cpr420> huh? gdb isn't used in kdl[01:11:10] <Duggan> well whatever it is, it says its gdb[01:11:27] <mmadia> assuming it's a white screen, that's an app_server crash.[01:11:47] <Duggan> is there a difference?[01:12:01] <Duggan> (nobody tells me this stuff...)[01:12:07] <cpr420> one is a kernel panic and one is an application crash[01:12:31] <Duggan> ok, how can I restart app_server when it crashes?[01:12:36] <mmadia> you don't.[01:12:40] <Duggan> :/[01:12:54] <Duggan> will it be possible one day?[01:13:32] <dru345> sure. reboot :)[01:14:18] <Duggan> oh and my question earlier.... how do you set the default size of the swapfile before a build?[01:15:16] <l_n> it's set in the virt. mem. preflet[01:16:02] <Duggan> how do I set the size of the swap file that the generated build will use by default before that build is generated?[01:16:54] <Duggan> when my test partition is only ~8GB, a 5GB swap file is a bit much[01:20:37] <Ziusudra> You would need to add a proper virtual_memory file to data/settings/kernel/drivers/ and a jam rule to copy it to the image[01:21:21] <Ziusudra> the Virtual Memory preflet will create that file[01:22:07] <Duggan> theres not just a setting in a jamfile somewhere?[01:22:21] *** Sikosis has joined #haiku[01:22:21] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Sikosis[01:22:24] <Duggan> there is by default no swap file[01:22:27] <Duggan> hey Sikosis[01:22:30] <Ziusudra> there might be[01:22:39] <Sikosis> hey Duggan[01:22:40] <Duggan> not that I've seen[01:23:02] <Duggan> the settings are such that there is not one but it is meant to be created on first boot....[01:23:17] <Duggan> my question is where is the setting that tells how big it should be :/[01:23:58] <Duggan> Ziusudra the reason i know there isn't one is I just checked in an image I just built and one wasn't there[01:24:26] <Ziusudra> that settings file is what determines how big and if it is on or not[01:24:53] <Duggan> ah ok, thought you were referring specifically to a swap file or something like that...[01:25:00] <Ziusudra> I would guess that the preflet is coded with the default multiple[01:25:19] <Duggan> well thats not a very good way to do it :/[01:25:37] <Duggan> brb[01:25:42] *** Duggan has quit IRC[01:26:02] <l_n> haiku is open source.... he could've checked in the vm preflet source...[01:26:05] * l_n shrugs.[01:26:22] <l_n> libsigc++ builds and passes make check[01:26:34] *** srbaker has quit IRC[01:26:37] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[01:26:41] *** HaikuUser is now known as Duggan[01:26:47] <Duggan> ah there we go[01:27:06] <l_n> vision has options to *not* use the default nick... :)[01:27:09] *** srbaker has joined #haiku[01:27:26] <Duggan> l_n yeah but you have to redo it every time you try a new build[01:27:36] <l_n> no you don't...[01:27:40] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37639 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/fs/ (Block.cpp Block.h Transaction.cpp Transaction.h):[01:27:40] <CIA-37> Block does now register writable blocks with Transaction. On commit[01:27:40] <CIA-37> Transaction sets the check sums for the changed blocks on the underlying[01:27:40] <CIA-37> device, respectively reverts them on roll-back.[01:27:52] *** adriano-src has quit IRC[01:28:04] <l_n> zip || tar.bz2 /boot/apps[01:28:09] <l_n> put it somewhere safe.[01:28:10] <Duggan> yeah I guess you could include something in a jamfile somewhere to include a custom config file everytime you build an image[01:28:26] <l_n> or you could just preserve /boot/apps..[01:28:36] <l_n> the most important thing to erase is system/[01:28:45] *** oco has quit IRC[01:28:49] *** Sir_Konrad has quit IRC[01:28:55] <l_n> i leave common/ apps/ and home/ whenever i update..[01:28:56] <Duggan> I'll keep that in mind :)[01:28:57] <l_n> no problems yet.[01:29:03] <Duggan> reinstalling and reconfiguring everything is really getting old :/[01:29:29] <Duggan> I left home for a while until app_server started crashing, then I had to reinit the whole partition[01:29:38] <Ziusudra> actually all you need to retain nick settings is /boot/home/config/settings/Vision/VisionSettings[01:30:01] <Duggan> either way, this is a new build[01:30:36] <Duggan> my first gcc4nonhybrid build at that[01:33:19] <Ziusudra> hmm, the preflet seems to get the size from the swap file if the settings file doesn't exist http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/preferences/virtualmemory/Settings.cpp#L117[01:34:26] <Ziusudra> oops, maybe not http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/src/preferences/virtualmemory/Settings.cpp#L194[01:34:50] <l_n> ugh. nano is ctrl-w to search, *not* cmd-w[01:36:49] *** handheldcar2 has joined #haiku[01:38:40] * l_n tries to remember why he needed paragui installed..[01:40:35] <Ziusudra> interesting, the Defaults button sets VM size to physical memory, but starting without a settings file will default to 2x[01:41:06] <l_n> i'm using .5xRAM[01:41:32] <l_n> and i don't think it uses swap...[01:41:58] <Duggan> I have 3gigs physical, it defaults to 5, and I currently have it set to 1... or will when I restart...[01:43:50] <mmu_screen> plop handheldcar2[01:44:15] *** Ziusudra has quit IRC[01:45:15] <mmu_screen> handheldcar2: it might be possible the bootloader allows all modes it finds on the card's BIOS, but the kernel driver only allows mode up to what it thinks the screen can handle[01:45:46] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[01:45:48] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[01:46:49] <handheldcar2> My vesa settings aren't sticking for the desktop. The splash is right though, but I set my resolution at every boot.[01:49:12] * handheldcar2 is plugged into an nVidia card.[01:49:28] <Duggan> whats the "trackernewtemplates" package?[01:49:52] <mmu_screen> try to enable syslog (in /boot/home/config/settings/kernel/drivers/kernel)[01:50:04] <mmu_screen> Duggan: some new templates for tracker :p[01:50:14] <mmu_screen> empty files for the "New" menu[01:50:23] <mmu_screen> (text file, ...)[01:50:36] <Duggan> ahhhh ok[01:50:52] <Duggan> something more than just "new folder"... gotcha[01:50:58] <mmu_screen> I think[01:51:13] <Duggan> sweet[01:51:31] <Duggan> c++ header, c++ source, makefile, text file[01:52:21] <Duggan> interesting[01:52:49] *** Sir_Konrad has quit IRC[01:53:56] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[01:56:25] *** Shisui has quit IRC[01:56:29] <handheldcar2> I have the kernel file open, but I'm not sure how to enable syslog.[01:56:46] <mmu_screen> uncomment # enable_syslog_output true[01:56:52] <Duggan> well gcc4(nonhybrid) seems stable enough so far...[01:57:14] <Duggan> anybody think I'd be missing much if I swapped to it?[01:57:32] <mmu_screen> then you can check in /var/log/syslog next boot for vesa stuff[01:57:51] <mmadia> wonderbrush, bepdf, gobe productive, soundplay, ....[01:58:17] <Duggan> I never did install gobe off my r5 pro cd :/[01:58:55] <handheldcar2> I don't have that line. Is it safe to just add it? I have # syslog_debug_output false.[01:59:10] <mmu_screen> ah yes, that one[01:59:17] <mmu_screen> just change it to true and remove the #[01:59:26] <handheldcar2> ok[02:00:10] <Duggan> hmm, I do have some pdf's I'd like to read from time to time...[02:01:44] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[02:02:09] <mmu_screen> BePDF should build on gcc4[02:02:13] <mmu_screen> but I didn't try[02:02:59] *** handheldcar2 has quit IRC[02:03:20] <Duggan> if nothing else I'll work on it... thats the only thing really keeping me from it I guess... unless someone else could cite any other reasons not to switch[02:07:08] *** acous has joined #haiku[02:08:25] *** Sir_Konrad has quit IRC[02:08:59] <l_n> the gcc4 only is mainly for the x86_64 and ARM ports, isn't it?[02:09:45] <mmadia> non x86-32 & for post R1.[02:10:06] <mmadia> also to allow us to compile some much needed software, like webkit.[02:11:04] <jmayfield_> hmm.. i need some new throwing knives[02:11:26] <l_n> erm.. how do you erase the damage from the File Type add-on?[02:11:37] <l_n> Tracker has forgotten that abuse is an executable...[02:12:40] <cpr420> you can reset it with file type or there are several command line apps to fix it[02:13:58] <l_n> and they are?[02:14:12] <cpr420> mimeset -f abuse[02:14:22] <cpr420> rmattr BEOS:TYPE abuse[02:14:39] *** handheldcar2 has joined #haiku[02:14:54] <cpr420> or is the first one "settype", I don't remember off the top of my head[02:15:11] <cpr420> I think both settype and mimeset can handle it[02:15:51] <l_n> hrm.. i think i'll just re-extract it from the zipfile[02:18:50] <Duggan> l_n I've come to the conclusion that if I'm ever going to play any games on Haiku besides sudoku and minesweeper, I need a gcc4 install[02:19:13] <Duggan> I tried simutrans and tmw and neither work without alot of lib issues[02:19:25] <Duggan> so many that I can't fix them :/[02:20:38] <mmadia> ... it's largely because people don't package things for a gcc2 hybrid, even though it's the official release style of Haiku.[02:20:54] <handheldcar2> mmu_screen /var/log/syslog says this over and over http://haiku.pastebin.com/sahFtmQ4[02:21:06] <Duggan> mmadia don't I know it :/[02:21:40] <mmadia> so, then when people new to Haiku download an official release, none of that stuff works, they can get turned off by Haiku and walk away.[02:21:56] <handheldcar2> That's without setting resolution at boot.[02:22:15] <Duggan> I'd help if I could :/[02:23:51] <handheldcar2> Actually, I grepped vesa, and that's what I got.[02:24:16] <Duggan> it would be nice if haikuware would add a compatibility list for software packages...[02:26:59] <Duggan> who runs haikuware anyway?[02:29:32] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[02:29:56] <l_n> karl[02:36:18] <handheldcar2> I'm finding some more stuff I'm going to put in a pastebin. looks like my monitor's resolutions don't match my video card's.[02:37:24] *** ambroff has quit IRC[02:38:59] <cpr420> HAIKU[02:39:58] *** srbaker has quit IRC[02:41:03] <Xeon3D> yo/[02:44:41] *** acous has quit IRC[02:47:22] *** Disreali has quit IRC[02:54:05] <handheldcar2> Here's the 2nd one http://haiku.pastebin.org/409915[02:54:45] <l_n> Xeon3D: ho\[02:56:10] *** handheldcar2 has quit IRC[02:57:29] *** handheldcar2 has joined #haiku[02:58:16] *** OlaHughson has quit IRC[03:16:01] <l_n> hrm.. OOo is 200+MB[03:20:33] <dru345> you porting it, l_n?[03:22:02] *** BGA has joined #haiku[03:22:02] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o BGA[03:27:39] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[03:28:30] *** BGA has quit IRC[03:34:21] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[03:36:56] <l_n> dru345: gonna see if it will build, and if not, i *might* try to brute force it :P[03:37:24] <l_n> the only thing i really worry about is the JRE dependency for some of the functionality[03:38:42] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[03:39:49] <l_n> i had almost forgotten that OOo is descended from staroffice[03:40:36] <l_n> i actually remember when redhat came with an evaluation version of staroffice :P[03:40:58] <l_n> (or was that right after staroffice was given over to the community? i forgot.. it was RH 6.1, though)[03:43:33] <Disreali> grr... quake is a mess to build on haiku[03:48:33] <Disreali> is there a port of sqlite3 for haiku?[03:48:50] <Xeon3D> I believe so.[03:50:04] <dru345> Xeon3D what is your latest Haiku build?[03:50:19] <Xeon3D> hmmm[03:50:22] <Xeon3D> what's the latest?[03:50:23] <dru345> (installed)[03:50:40] <dru345> 37609 latest[03:51:22] <Xeon3D> hmmm[03:51:38] <Xeon3D> 37656 or something similar[03:51:42] <Xeon3D> erm[03:51:47] <dru345> lol[03:51:47] <Xeon3D> 37565[03:51:48] <Xeon3D> *[03:51:51] <dru345> ok[03:54:52] <Xeon3D> have it on an sdcard[03:54:53] <Xeon3D> why?[03:55:21] <dru345> curious. in case i need you to check something for me :)[03:55:25] <l_n> tar is *still* working on OOo[03:55:31] <dru345> :D[03:55:33] <Duggan> hi guys[03:55:38] <dru345> hello Duggan[03:55:38] <l_n> almost 20 mins[03:55:46] <Xeon3D> hey Duggan[03:56:37] <Xeon3D> l_n: yeah, i'd love if tar and the rest of the shell archivers/compressors had a progress bar of some kind.[03:56:44] <Duggan> hmm[03:57:45] <Duggan> brb[03:57:49] *** Duggan has quit IRC[03:58:08] <l_n> well, i usually use 'tar xvf some.tbz2' or whatever, but just printing the filenames doesn't tell you how far it's gotten.[03:58:09] <Sir_Konrad> Xeon3D: you can boot off an SD card?[03:58:31] <l_n> it's treated as a USB drive[03:58:40] <Sir_Konrad> l_n: wow. ok[03:58:44] *** Duggan has joined #haiku[03:58:45] <Sir_Konrad> I'll have to try that.[03:59:08] <Duggan> behold, I returneth.[03:59:23] * l_n hides the beer[03:59:27] *** Sir_Konrad has quit IRC[03:59:47] <Disreali> did some say "Beer"[04:00:28] <l_n> no. no beer here.[04:00:41] * l_n whistles.[04:01:46] <dru345> Bear. he meant bears. >.>[04:02:56] <Duggan> I wish niue worked :([04:03:28] <dru345> niue? sounds like a tropical disease[04:04:03] <dru345> (hint: it's a pacific island)[04:04:38] <dru345> thus ends my career in #haiku stand up :P[04:05:39] <l_n> 30 mins later.... *watching filenames scroll by*[04:05:57] * Disreali takes one l_n's beers[04:06:03] <dru345> OOo is... complicated :P[04:06:35] <l_n> s/\(O.*\.\)c.*/\1/[04:06:38] <l_n> erm.[04:06:50] <l_n> s/\(O.*\.\)c.*/\1 bloated/[04:06:55] <l_n> that's what i meant.[04:07:46] <Duggan> dru345: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tako0033/Niue/niue.html[04:08:14] <l_n> damn sun. config.guess and config.sub need to be replaced.[04:09:00] <dru345> Duggan why does it not work?[04:09:02] <Duggan> l_n when all else fails, delete them... no doubt something, somewhere will regenerate them with the proper values[04:09:16] <Duggan> dru345 try creating a new project[04:09:20] <l_n> automake --add-missing (after removing the offending files) fixes it.[04:09:37] <Duggan> I love being right :) (it happens so rarely...)[04:09:43] <l_n> i've gotten in the habit of running libtoolize, autoreconf, and automake --add-missing before configuring.,[04:10:41] <l_n> checking target system type... i586-pc-haiku[04:10:42] <l_n> configure: error: operating system is not suitable to build OpenOffice.org![04:10:48] <l_n> ^^wtf?[04:11:12] * l_n dives into the autoconf files[04:11:13] <Duggan> omg it just worked :/[04:11:25] <Duggan> dru345 it just worked :/[04:11:29] <dru345> :D[04:11:48] <Duggan> now i have to go delete the project I just created...[04:11:49] <Duggan> lol[04:11:52] <dru345> lol[04:16:57] *** echelog has joined #haiku[04:16:57] -calvino.freenode.net- [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp[04:17:18] <Xeon3D> l_n: install Image::Size ?[04:17:27] <Duggan> interesting[04:17:29] <Xeon3D> Image::Size being the module?[04:17:46] <Xeon3D> http://www.livejournal.com/doc/server/lj.install.perl_setup.modules.html ^_^[04:18:08] * Xeon3D knows no perl as well but knows googling :P (don't take this the wrong way)[04:18:17] <Duggan> lol[04:18:25] <l_n> perl -MCPAN -e 'Some::Module'[04:18:45] <Xeon3D> that wouldn't work on the interpreter l_n[04:18:59] <l_n> well, from the command line :P[04:19:01] <Duggan> mcpan.... is that a kitchen utensil at mcdonalds?[04:19:02] <Xeon3D> *work if typed on*[04:19:17] <Xeon3D> Duggan: it's where they fry the mcchips[04:20:30] <l_n> oops. forgot the 'install ...' part[04:21:29] <Duggan> hmm[04:22:49] <l_n> it would help if i had CPAN.pm installed...[04:23:03] <l_n> it is :-/[04:23:20] <Duggan> you're porting OOo to Haiku?[04:23:28] <l_n> attempting it.[04:23:36] <l_n> but first i have to get through the configure script.[04:23:49] <cpr420> apparently you haven't seen the dendency graph that yellowtab made[04:24:19] <cpr420> *dependency[04:25:05] <l_n> no, i haven't. i'm just going to start at the beginning with 3.2.0[04:27:11] <l_n> i have to wonder if a static build wouldn't have been better...[04:27:37] <Xeon3D> http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/cvs/xsoft/openoffice.html <- dependencies...[04:28:45] <Xeon3D> The required ones aren't that many :P[04:29:06] * dru345 spies GTK+[04:29:09] <Xeon3D> but then again, those also depend on some others.[04:29:12] <cpr420> I was referring more to the classes in the project[04:29:20] <cpr420> not the external ones[04:29:21] <Xeon3D> and the "Apache Ant" one depends on Java :X[04:29:34] <Xeon3D> oh[04:29:40] <Xeon3D> idk anything about those.[04:31:15] <l_n> meh. i need gcj[04:31:22] * l_n goes digging through the maze of gnu crap.[04:31:34] * Xeon3D gets in front of l_n[04:31:51] * Xeon3D grabs and starts juggling abiword's source[04:32:01] * Xeon3D whistles.[04:32:24] <l_n> hrm.. are you trying to suggest an alternative to this behemoth?[04:32:49] <Xeon3D> an easier alternative to part of that behemoth[04:32:58] <Xeon3D> unless you'd like to take a shot at Gobe 3[04:33:04] * l_n forces electrons through his ssd to remove the untarred OOo[04:33:12] <l_n> did they open source it?[04:33:29] <mmadia> nope.[04:33:38] <Xeon3D> nope, but there is/was an agreement that if someone ports it, they'll make it free to use.[04:33:46] <mmadia> it's under an NDA.[04:34:11] <l_n> so i'll need to email gobe if i want to attempt it and sign some stuff...[04:34:19] <dru345> what's wrong with an NDA?[04:34:22] <l_n> nothing[04:34:33] <mmadia> an NDA isn't open source. that's all.[04:34:34] <l_n> i'm fine with not sending the work to anybody but gobe[04:34:49] <l_n> (or others that sign the NDA)[04:34:49] <Xeon3D> somone was hinting as well on the ML's about a bounty for axel to port it...[04:35:38] * l_n thinks about (attempting to) snip[ing|e] the bounty :P[04:35:59] <dru345> it may be possible. two people ported it to Aqua (as NeoOffice) long before OOo did. the port has one maintainer.[04:36:00] <mmadia> ehh,... the idea of paying someone to work X hours on an NDA product ... i dunno, it doesn't feel right.[04:36:20] <mmadia> especially as the contract would be for putting in hours, not guaranteeing a final product.[04:37:08] <l_n> isn't a bounty for producing a result and not a wage?[04:38:14] <mmadia> haikuware's bouties, yes. but Haiku Inc's contracts are for purchasing blocks of development time.[04:41:00] <Xeon3D> l_n: http://www.freelists.org/post/haiku/Haiku-contract-work[04:42:07] <Xeon3D> that's the thread on the ML where the bounty / GoBe is mentioned.[04:42:10] *** handheldcar2 has quit IRC[04:46:11] <l_n> i think i'm going to send an email over to GoBe to see if they'd be willing to let me take a shot at it...[04:46:38] <l_n> if i can't do it, all i have to do is delete the source, and then i can't share it with anybody :)[04:47:46] *** CyberKitsune has joined #haiku[04:49:24] *** jmelesky has quit IRC[04:50:37] <l_n> done. and now i wait.[04:50:41] <mmadia> BGA?[04:51:30] * Xeon3D wishes l_n good luck.[04:51:50] <Xeon3D> mmadia: BGA left i think[04:52:25] *** acous has joined #haiku[04:52:46] <Xeon3D> i'm going for a nap... see you back in 2 or 3h[04:52:57] * Xeon3D loves his job[04:53:17] <l_n> Xeon3D: what do you do?[04:53:59] <Xeon3D> I'm a night receptionist in an inn[04:55:47] <l_n> must be nice to get paid to sit on your ass ;)[04:56:12] <Xeon3D> it is, but it gets boring sometimes[04:57:08] <Duggan> lol l8r Xeon3D[04:58:16] <Xeon3D> laer[04:58:20] <Xeon3D> argh[04:58:22] * l_n wonders if amaya would be useful to anybody..[04:58:33] <Xeon3D> later :) (also, the pay isn't that good)[04:58:43] <Duggan> pays better than my job I'm sure[04:58:54] <Xeon3D> u're unemployed?[04:58:58] <Duggan> yep[04:59:05] <Xeon3D> figured. :D[04:59:15] <Duggan> just got my degree, taking my last summer break to write code[04:59:26] <cpr420> i'd rather have w3m than amaya[04:59:27] * l_n makes US$15.20/hr as an alarm (fire/burg/access control/cctv) technician[04:59:40] <l_n> cpr420: w3m started amaya[04:59:52] <l_n> erm.. the w3 consortium[05:00:00] <Xeon3D> damn![05:00:06] <Xeon3D> I make ~4USD / hr.[05:00:20] <Duggan> I made $16 as a machinist for a little while[05:00:39] <l_n> Xeon3D: Wo ist du?[05:00:57] <Duggan> the work was great the pay was pretty good too (though not very competitive) but the guy that ran the place didn't have a clue what he was doing or how to treat his employees, so I went back to school :P[05:02:28] <Xeon3D> l_n: ?[05:05:31] <l_n> where are you?[05:06:25] <l_n> erm.. that probably should have been 'wo bist du'[05:06:31] <Xeon3D> Portugal[05:06:38] <l_n> meh. i really need to review my deutsch[05:06:58] <Duggan> ja[05:07:03] <l_n> Xeon3D: i think i've asked that before, but it got filed in part of my brain that leaks information.[05:07:34] *** The_Ringmaster has joined #haiku[05:08:10] *** mmadia has quit IRC[05:08:42] <Disreali> grr... Why won't sdlquake compile????[05:09:18] * Disreali gives up and takes another of l_n's beers[05:09:42] <cpr420> Disreali: what's the error?[05:09:54] <Disreali> kdl[05:10:04] <kallisti5> Disreali: bt?[05:10:24] <kallisti5> Disreali: bt -- > pastebin :)[05:10:33] <Disreali> I have a usb keyboard on that system and it does not work in lkdl[05:10:49] <kallisti5> that sucks[05:10:59] <Disreali> and my camera is broke[05:11:01] <l_n> Disreali: is it finding all of its libs?[05:11:08] <l_n> (while compiling)[05:11:21] <kallisti5> Disreali: i think there is a way to activate the USB keyboard for KDL.[05:12:10] <l_n> abiword has the latest autoconf files (a plus since that means i don't have to regen the config stuff)[05:12:12] <Disreali> it is possible that I don't have all the libs. once I start the build I move back to xp to play quake[05:12:17] <kallisti5> Disreali: http://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku/release-notes[05:12:32] <kallisti5> Disreali: "Also note that when entering the kernel debugger by means of a panic it is possible that the keyboard does not work. To work around this issue you can manually enter the kernel debugger once and leave it again to enable the USB keyboard."[05:13:03] <Disreali> true, but I rarely remember to do that[05:13:25] <l_n> abiword is right out.[05:13:31] <l_n> i am *not* working on gtk+[05:13:47] <Disreali> aslo, if it goes to full-screen gdb, one is sol regardless[05:14:00] * l_n is against lots of disparate toolkits for anything other than games (such as guichan)[05:14:03] <cpr420> l_n: there was a native port on osdrawer that you could use for reference[05:14:07] <Disreali> no! gkt is EVIL[05:14:45] <kallisti5> l_n: oohh! <3 guichan[05:14:53] <l_n> kallisti5: it's on haikuware[05:14:59] <l_n> i needed it for tmw[05:15:01] <kallisti5> l_n: orly?[05:15:13] <l_n> oh, and the mana world is there, too.[05:15:14] <l_n> :)[05:16:08] <Disreali> what is tmw?[05:16:15] <Disreali> doh[05:16:21] <Disreali> the mana world[05:16:37] <Disreali> that gam you ported[05:17:01] * Disreali gets more beer[05:17:08] <l_n> cpr420: i'm going to wait to see what GoBe says about Productive before undertaking a major project like abiword or OOo[05:17:25] <l_n> yes. it's quite amusing when you don't get disconnecte.d repeatedly[05:17:41] * l_n grumbles about palming his touchpad all the time[05:18:33] <Disreali> l_n: there already was a effort to port OOo. though, I'm not sure how far it got or where the code is[05:19:05] <l_n> well, it sounds like GoBe may be the way to go. rumor is that they kept it all BeAPI and wrote wrappers for Win32[05:19:18] <Disreali> port is a couple years old[05:20:00] <Disreali> yes, when Gobe ported it to win, the re-wrote the api for win32[05:20:25] <dru345> the problem with depending on Gobe is well... dependency. :/[05:20:33] <Disreali> but, is gobe still arround?[05:20:52] <dru345> they are barely alive[05:21:07] <dru345> they appear to sell the product in India[05:21:12] <Disreali> time for quake[05:21:15] <Disreali> later[05:21:33] * dru345 thinks an open source clone of Gobe is better.[05:23:22] <l_n> if they let us distribute a ported GoBe for free, who cares about an NDA? if they go under, maybe they'll donate the code to us.[05:24:06] * l_n is such an optimist about the fate of fringe software houses...[05:24:11] <dru345> :D[05:24:51] <l_n> if it weren't for all the people who depend on them for their livelihood, i'd say MS and Apple both need to burn to the ground.[05:25:24] <dru345> :O[05:25:32] <dru345> not Apple :P[05:25:35] <dru345> just MS :D[05:25:48] <l_n> nope. both of them. Apple is currently being more evil than microsoft.[05:26:00] * dru345 avoids this topic[05:26:03] * l_n attempts to remove the Cult of Jobs programming from dru345's brain.[05:26:57] <l_n> dru345: don't worry. i fully realize my opinion is just that and others will disagree with me.[05:27:36] * dru345 thinks we can focus on making haiku the best it can be. :P[05:28:23] <l_n> yep. along with healthy discussions about the Evil proprietary OS shops. :P[05:36:28] <Xeon3D> I love Apple.[05:36:36] <Xeon3D> As much as I love Microsoft[05:37:20] <Xeon3D> Just felt like saying that[05:37:25] * Xeon3D goes back to his nap[05:37:29] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[05:38:50] <drano> without the evil proprietary OS shops, the do-gooder open source OS guys would have nothing to attempt (and fail) to recreate[05:38:55] <drano> am i rite[05:39:03] <Xeon3D> ding![05:39:18] <Xeon3D> *zing![05:39:31] <drano> i prefer ding[05:39:40] <Xeon3D> even I don't agree on the fail part.[05:39:45] <Xeon3D> *if I[05:39:57] <Xeon3D> zing = ray william johnson... :D[05:40:20] <drano> never heard of him[05:41:33] <Xeon3D> youtube him :)[05:42:16] <drano> 'zing' was around before whoever that guy was[05:43:34] <Xeon3D> true[05:43:42] <Xeon3D> but I remembered it from his videos[05:44:04] *** kmargar has joined #haiku[05:46:40] *** markos_ has quit IRC[05:49:52] *** JoeyA has joined #haiku[05:50:45] <Duggan> sqlite seems pretty nifty.... does anybody happen to know from experience?[05:51:10] <drano> it's really nice if you need that kind of thing[05:52:12] <Duggan> it seems ideal for what I'm currently working on... just not sure how easy it is to use, doesn't seem like it'd be too bad though[05:52:35] <drano> it's extremely easy to use. there are a bunch of c++ wrappers that are nice too[05:53:23] <Duggan> great[05:55:07] *** jonathanbthompso has joined #haiku[05:55:17] <Duggan> hey jonathanbthompso[05:55:25] *** matthias9 has quit IRC[05:57:32] *** matthias9 has joined #haiku[05:57:44] *** The_Ringmaster has quit IRC[06:02:17] *** jonathanbthompso has quit IRC[06:02:22] *** jonathanbthompso has joined #haiku[06:03:34] *** jonathanbthompso is now known as JonathanThompson[06:11:10] *** Ziusudra has joined #haiku[06:13:33] *** Ziusudra has quit IRC[06:13:47] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[06:15:53] *** Ziusudra has joined #haiku[06:23:22] *** Advant has quit IRC[06:23:41] *** Advant has joined #haiku[06:39:52] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[06:50:49] *** Disreali has quit IRC[06:53:47] *** Nozy has joined #haiku[06:55:01] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[07:01:09] *** Advant has quit IRC[07:01:17] *** saivert has quit IRC[07:01:26] *** Advant has joined #haiku[07:05:32] *** kitallis has quit IRC[07:23:56] *** Toekutr has joined #haiku[07:39:27] *** CyberKitsune has quit IRC[07:52:06] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[07:53:46] *** Nozy has quit IRC[07:54:20] *** JoeyA has quit IRC[07:55:03] *** acous has quit IRC[07:55:46] *** agent420 has quit IRC[07:57:49] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[07:59:23] *** _arjen_ has joined #haiku[08:00:13] *** _arjen_ has quit IRC[08:09:46] *** fhein has joined #haiku[08:09:58] *** jamy has joined #haiku[08:41:03] *** Sikosis has quit IRC[08:44:40] *** CK|iPod has joined #haiku[08:51:45] *** jamy has quit IRC[08:53:24] *** CK|iPod has quit IRC[08:54:13] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[08:54:41] *** saivert has joined #haiku[08:54:46] <lorglas> hello[09:05:38] *** iIngenu has joined #haiku[09:11:49] <MrSunshine_> "The FreeType project celebrates the expiration of Apple's TrueType bytecode patents. The open source font rendering engine now has the bytecode technology enabled by default. The relevant code existed for some time, but the project felt forced to disable it and advise everyone not to use it due to patent encumbrance. The 20-year maximum of validity of software patents is long, but sometimes the stuff that becomes[09:11:49] <MrSunshine_> available is still useful. The Unisys GIF patent was an example. And anything open-sourced 20 years ago would also be patent-free by now (except for the code that has since been added)."[09:11:50] <MrSunshine_> oo =)[09:13:52] <dru345> :D[09:14:25] <MrSunshine_> ye the software patent time is a joke[09:14:32] <MrSunshine_> software goes forward fast, as does computers[09:14:35] <MrSunshine_> but 20 years of patent time?![09:14:40] <MrSunshine_> thats just stupid as hell[09:14:46] <dru345> yeah it's crazy[09:14:47] <MrSunshine_> no wonder computers havent gotten further then they have[09:15:12] <dru345> yeah[09:15:27] <dru345> 17 yrs was bad enough then it wen to 20[09:16:38] <MrSunshine_> should be like 5[09:16:45] <MrSunshine_> so they stil have time to develop it and make money[09:16:56] <MrSunshine_> but doesnt cut down on inovation etc[09:19:34] *** RQ has joined #haiku[09:21:03] <MrSunshine_> : Software Now Un-Patentable In New Zealand[09:21:06] <MrSunshine_> hah :P[09:21:23] <dru345> lucky Omni and his kiwis :P[09:21:50] <MrSunshine_> still, un-patentable isnt good either[09:21:56] <MrSunshine_> as that will cut down on progress also[09:22:28] <MrSunshine_> there has to be a equlibrium in patent time, progress and that the companies can keep themselfs afloat =)[09:29:19] *** cpr420 has quit IRC[09:31:12] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[09:35:41] *** Xeon3D has quit IRC[09:37:22] *** Xeon3D has joined #haiku[09:37:54] *** Trezker has quit IRC[09:46:43] <fhein> I don't know about that.. software development has progressed pretty well for quite a long time without sw patents[09:47:53] <fhein> but speaking of NZ.. anyone from there around?[09:53:05] *** ali3n0 has joined #haiku[09:53:06] <ali3n0> hi fols[09:53:12] <ali3n0> folks :)[09:55:15] *** Xeon3D has quit IRC[09:55:22] *** Xeon4D has joined #haiku[09:58:03] *** J-Ho has joined #haiku[10:01:13] *** Xeon4D is now known as Xeon3D[10:01:27] *** Xeon3D has quit IRC[10:01:27] *** Xeon3D has joined #haiku[10:01:41] <Xeon3D> meh[10:01:44] <Xeon3D> I overslept :P[10:06:30] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC[10:10:29] <ali3n0> Xeon3D, up till late night coding maybe?[10:17:45] <dru345> hi Xeon3D[10:17:55] <dru345> hi ali3n0[10:18:17] <ali3n0> hi dru345[10:18:45] *** jmayfield_ has joined #haiku[10:20:02] <ali3n0> umpf... I'm at office today, no haiku to play around here :/[10:20:35] <dru345> you working on any particular thing for haiku or just trying it out ali3n0[10:21:31] <ali3n0> just trying out and learning gui concepts so far[10:21:51] <ali3n0> I've also checked few easy tickets[10:22:06] <ali3n0> but I think is too early[10:22:51] <ali3n0> I'm more familiar with python and php, so when I can I dig into the c++ lessons on the site[10:23:12] <ali3n0> but, you know, spare time is never enough[10:23:19] <dru345> yup[10:24:06] <ali3n0> the other thing I do is to fill a list of tools I'd like to be ported[10:24:27] <ali3n0> not very much to be honest[10:24:41] <ali3n0> I mean, they are less than I thought![10:25:06] <dru345> what things did you have in mind?[10:25:16] *** iIngenu has quit IRC[10:25:18] <ali3n0> dropbox, a time tracker...[10:25:47] <ali3n0> to crypt a directory (but I know is already there from a ML thread I opened)[10:26:10] <ali3n0> is ssh server available?[10:26:22] <dru345> i don't know[10:26:30] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[10:26:39] *** impy has quit IRC[10:28:19] *** jamy has joined #haiku[10:30:57] *** Begasus_ has joined #haiku[10:31:06] <Begasus_> moin[10:31:11] *** Begasus_ is now known as Begasus[10:31:45] *** impy has joined #haiku[10:32:08] *** Malmis has quit IRC[10:32:08] *** TMM has quit IRC[10:32:08] *** mmu_screen has quit IRC[10:33:32] *** Malmis has joined #haiku[10:33:32] *** TMM has joined #haiku[10:33:32] *** mmu_screen has joined #haiku[10:33:32] *** calvino.freenode.net sets mode: +o mmu_screen[10:40:00] *** toni_ has joined #haiku[10:40:04] <Xeon3D> ali3n0 : there is a ssh server. Also, I can't code.[10:40:14] <Xeon3D> I overslept @ work.[10:40:52] *** odites has joined #haiku[10:41:19] <ali3n0> I wish I can sleep at work too[10:43:15] *** dru345haiku has joined #haiku[10:45:33] <dru345> Xeon3D should port abiword instead of sleeping @ work ;P[10:45:48] <surrounder> lol[10:46:14] *** kmargar is now known as markos_[10:46:52] <dru345> is there a screen reader or any accessibility features going into haiku for R1?[10:47:25] <PulkoMandy> patches welcome :)[10:47:30] <PulkoMandy> nothing is planned[10:47:47] <dru345> >.>[10:48:14] <dru345> i'm trying to fix tracker. that could probably be a snap by comparison :D[10:54:24] *** jmayfield__ has joined #haiku[10:54:50] <dru345> what are you working on PulkoMandy?[10:55:09] <PulkoMandy> localization :)[10:55:25] <PulkoMandy> I'll try to save and restore the custom 12/24hr setting in the locale preflet[10:55:35] <dru345> oh that's right. I quickly I forgot! we talked about the clock in DeskBar.[10:55:52] <PulkoMandy> and then rewrite the timezone support to use ICU instead of the custom stuff messing with files[10:56:10] <dru345> You are doing important work. :)[10:56:16] <PulkoMandy> the time preflet is strange... why are there categories America, then US, Brazil, Mexico ?[10:56:39] *** iIngenu has joined #haiku[10:57:00] <PulkoMandy> well, a lot of small but important changes[10:57:07] <dru345> I wish I had the answer PulkoMandy[10:57:26] *** nitrofurano has joined #haiku[10:57:26] <PulkoMandy> I'm not doing much now actually, only modifying apps to use the backend I wrote last year[10:57:30] *** jmayfield_ has quit IRC[10:57:34] <PulkoMandy> and fixing the backend, sometimes :)[10:57:41] <dru345> time preflet is very strange in how you set GMT time, then set local time or locale or something. I forget the order to do it right.[10:58:11] <PulkoMandy> yes, actually they cheated a bit because there is no proper timezone support[10:58:15] <PulkoMandy> so it's a bit mixed up[10:58:29] <dru345> ah![10:58:35] <PulkoMandy> ok... I'll now reboot to install the latest chanes to haiku :)[10:58:35] <dru345> maybe you could fix it ;P[10:58:38] <dru345> ok[10:58:45] <PulkoMandy> yes, I'll try :)[10:58:50] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[11:01:03] <nitrofurano> http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=57897 - I'm now trying to have a dualboot of PuppyLinux 5.0.0 (full install on sda1 partition ext3) and HaikuOS r1 alpha1 (at sda3, in a befs (BeOS file system) partition) - but i'm having a grub error saying 'internal error: the second sector of stage 2 is unknown'[11:01:03] <nitrofurano> I'm doing constantly 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=446 count=1' (removes all mbr content, afaik) from terminal and update from PuppyUniversalInstaller (from Setup from menu), and reinstalling grub at mbr as most people reccomends, and that error message persists...[11:01:03] <nitrofurano> Which is the most efficient way to fix this grub situation, and having both PuppyLinux and HaikuOS appearing from grub, and having both booting perfectly as wished?[11:01:05] <nitrofurano> Thanks in advance[11:01:07] <nitrofurano> p[11:01:49] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[11:11:33] <ali3n0> nitrofurano, I've just installed r1a2 on a dual boot machine, I used the usbstick install method and it worked like a charm[11:12:04] <ali3n0> I just used the partitioning software given by the haiku install process[11:12:44] <ali3n0> before of that, I tried dumping the anyboot image on the haiku partition with no luck[11:13:09] <PulkoMandy> putting it directly on a partition will not work[11:16:25] <ali3n0> PulkoMandy, I remember the first alpha I tried I did something like that[11:16:40] <ali3n0> or maybe it was a prealpha, can't remember exactly[11:21:41] *** Ziusudra has quit IRC[11:22:14] *** toekutr_ has joined #haiku[11:22:19] *** mawst has quit IRC[11:22:51] *** jmayfield__ has quit IRC[11:24:34] <nitrofurano> do rla2 live-cd really work? it stops on a grub cli (...? - booting from cd! - very weird...)[11:24:45] <eml> \o[11:25:19] *** Toekutr has quit IRC[11:26:04] <nitrofurano> maybe the rla2 .iso (in a zip file) from the official HaikuOS is the wrong download, and maybe there are another direct .iso download which boots as fine as rla1?[11:26:05] <PulkoMandy> grub ? that's not our cd for sure[11:26:17] <nitrofurano> yes, grub...[11:26:20] <PulkoMandy> we would have noticed it[11:26:28] <PulkoMandy> we don't have grub anywhere[11:26:40] <PulkoMandy> on the cd, not even on the hard disk installation[11:26:48] <ali3n0> nitrofurano, maybe you're booting from the wrong device[11:27:00] <PulkoMandy> or burnt the wrong image on the cd[11:27:33] <ali3n0> I never tried the iso, but the usbstick is working fine to me[11:28:47] <nitrofurano> i downloaded from here - http://haiku-files.org/files/releases/r1alpha2/haiku-r1alpha2-iso.torrent - md5sum a146ffe246c1a8c9169474027bec92c2 haiku-r1alpha2.iso[11:29:02] *** Begasus has quit IRC[11:30:01] <nitrofurano> a146ffe246c1a8c9169474027bec92c2 haiku-r1alpha2.iso is 465mb large[11:31:18] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[11:33:07] <nitrofurano> ali3n0 i booted the rla2 just the same way as rla1 - rla1 live-cd works, and rla2 don't[11:33:23] <nitrofurano> 6f2ad0326832925da34e2a9a3170897a haiku-r1alpha2-iso.zip 194.3mb[11:33:39] <nitrofurano> (md5sum above)[11:35:05] <nitrofurano> the only issue i got from rla1 live-cd were some file transfering error, like around 5000th file in 16000, and etc - no much more than that - but from rla2, only that grub cli...[11:38:20] <nitrofurano> i'm trying it now on another computer - i think rla2 live-cd is simply not bootable.. :/ - did you all test it anyway? :([11:38:29] <luroh> yes[11:38:44] <ali3n0> yes I tested it Monday[11:38:57] <luroh> if that's grub you're seeing, it's not coming from r1a2[11:39:47] <nitrofurano> i sent the md5sum of the files (the iso and the .zip provided from HaikuOS website from torrent)[11:40:07] <nitrofurano> very weird...[11:40:17] <luroh> can you take a picture of this grub cli and upload somewhere?[11:41:07] <nitrofurano> asap, yes! now it's booting ubuntu (that fsck situation...)[11:41:11] *** Shisui has joined #haiku[11:41:27] <dru345> \o/[11:41:39] <nitrofurano> just some minutes...[11:44:12] *** odites_ has joined #haiku[11:44:59] *** odites has quit IRC[11:47:22] *** RQ has quit IRC[11:51:00] <nitrofurano> luroh http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/5056/foto0001i.jpg[11:51:53] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37640 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):[11:51:53] <CIA-37> file_cache_write() can get a NULL buffer and still a size != 0, which the[11:51:53] <CIA-37> request handling wasn't taking into account.[11:52:03] <nitrofurano> it's anyway another grub situation, since i were trying to do a HaikuOS and PuppyLinux dualboot - i think the problem is the cd has no boot record... - i simply burnt that iso, nothing more...[11:52:09] <luroh> that seems to appear after it has failed to start from CD[11:52:45] <luroh> how did you burn the cd?[11:52:46] <nitrofurano> yes, and i'm running live-cds all the time - rla1 works fine, for example[11:53:01] <matthias9> hmm puppy-linux on hdd? I thought there are better linux distributions for running from harddisk[11:53:16] *** HaikuUser has joined #haiku[11:53:27] *** HaikuUser has quit IRC[11:53:41] <luroh> there are some programs that have problems burning a cd image to disk[11:53:52] <nitrofurano> i used cdrecord -v -pad speed=1 dev=0,0,0 src.iso , but i burnt other live-cd successfully this way[11:54:16] <ali3n0> nitrofurano, cd-r or cd-rw?[11:54:21] <nitrofurano> (of course src.iso is the name of the HaikuOS iso)[11:54:34] <nitrofurano> the same as the others that works[11:54:56] <ali3n0> maybe it got ruined the last burn[11:55:00] <nitrofurano> both rla2 and rla1 were on a cd-r[11:55:20] *** phoudoin has joined #haiku[11:55:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o phoudoin[11:55:36] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37641 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/fs/ (File.cpp File.h):[11:55:36] <CIA-37> * Resize(): Resize the file cache before trying to fill the added space with[11:55:36] <CIA-37> zeroes.[11:55:36] <CIA-37> * Compute and propagate the check sums of the written file data to the[11:55:36] <CIA-37> underlying device.[11:55:45] <luroh> that's not what the site recommends though - http://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku/burn-cd[11:56:13] <nitrofurano> ali3n0 luroh anyway, is haiku-r1alpha2.iso md5sum a146ffe246c1a8c9169474027bec92c2 and 465mb ?[11:56:51] <luroh> yes[11:56:55] <nitrofurano> :O[11:57:03] <nitrofurano> i'll try to burn again and check...[11:57:23] <nitrofurano> thanks[11:57:40] <luroh> yeah, use the params listed on that page[12:00:46] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[12:01:25] <brobostigon> morning all.[12:01:28] *** RQ has joined #haiku[12:01:39] <dru345> hi brobostigon[12:02:03] <brobostigon> hi dru345[12:03:11] *** jamy has quit IRC[12:06:16] *** jamy has joined #haiku[12:09:45] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37642 /haiku/trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs):[12:09:45] <CIA-37> * Locale Roster : store an instance of BCountry instead of replicating all of its intrnals and creating instances on demand[12:09:45] <CIA-37> * Locale preflet : save the time formats to the settings file if they are different from the defaut.[12:10:07] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[12:13:48] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[12:16:45] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[12:17:16] *** GedMurphy has joined #haiku[12:24:25] *** OmniMancer has joined #haiku[12:25:20] <dru345> hello OmniMancer[12:30:52] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37643 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/locale/LocaleRoster.cpp: * Locale Roster : exclude the "gcc4" and "gcc2" folders when searching for add-ons. Avoids an useless debug message.[12:33:17] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37644 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/locale/LibraryInit.cpp: * Removed registering of non-existing application as preferred for catalogs.[12:34:24] *** Megaf is now known as Megaf_[12:35:16] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[12:52:05] *** dru345haiku has quit IRC[12:57:51] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[12:58:16] *** odites_ has quit IRC[13:00:47] <nitrofurano> i think the rla2 burnt fine on Brasero - besides it hangs on my P4 (cursor on blue background, nothing more), it seems to be installing at my P3 machine - is that usual the 'debugging land' appearing while installing? (it happened some times at the rla1 live-cd as well) - how can i send more detailed info?[13:01:53] <luroh> when in KDL, you can type 'bt' to get a stack trace[13:02:01] <nitrofurano> and how can we contribute with HaikuOS keymaps? it misses Portugal-mac, Portugal-sun and Portugal-hcesar ...[13:02:15] <nitrofurano> thanks! :)[13:02:23] <luroh> take a photo of that and create a ticket at dev.haiku-os.org (if there isn't one already)[13:02:37] <nitrofurano> thanks! :)[13:03:44] <luroh> you can attach the photo to the ticket[13:04:10] <luroh> i don't know about the keymaps, perhaps PulkoMandy does[13:04:28] <luroh> he's our internationalizer :)[13:06:41] <dru345> my Tracker patch for fixing a number of Single Window Mode bugs is submitted.[13:07:17] <dru345> this ticket - http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/3385[13:08:24] <OmniMancer> Haiku, no OS[13:08:43] <dru345> good evening, OmniMancer[13:14:10] <nitrofurano> thanks! :)[13:17:10] <Xeon3D> nitrofurano : Portugal-hcesar? that's unheard for me.[13:18:29] <nitrofurano> it's a very old keyboard keymap, not used from manufactured computer keyboards, but in typewrite machines - there are mostly over50 people is more comfortable with hcesar than qwerty[13:19:00] <nitrofurano> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HCESAR[13:19:40] <CIA-37> axeld * r37645 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/net/ProtocolUtilities.h:[13:19:40] <CIA-37> * Moved DatagramSocket::Socket() up to its parent.[13:19:40] <CIA-37> * Some cleanup.[13:20:27] <CIA-37> axeld * r37646 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/net/NetBufferUtilities.h: * Cleanup.[13:20:37] <Xeon3D> nitrofurano a layout with no 0 ?[13:20:38] <Xeon3D> lol[13:20:45] <nitrofurano> yes! :)[13:20:49] <Xeon3D> had to be from dictatorship times...[13:21:17] <dru345> wow. that's bizarre[13:21:20] <nitrofurano> for sure! maybe it's not that popular now because dictatorship... :|[13:21:49] <nitrofurano> and on some machines, '1' is also missing, and 'replaceable' with lowecase 'L'[13:22:04] <Xeon3D> lol[13:22:09] <Xeon3D> and it has no asterisk as well :P[13:22:13] *** toekutr_ has quit IRC[13:22:18] <Xeon3D> That's a layout for typewriters, and typewriters only.[13:22:46] <Xeon3D> It wouldn't work (at least as well) on a PC as any other layout.[13:23:37] <Xeon3D> strangely enough the cedilla c had it's own key instead of adding a c plus a comma...[13:24:08] <PulkoMandy> nitrofurano: you can create a keymap easily by drag and dropping keys in the keymap preflet[13:24:13] <PulkoMandy> (or uusing the character map)[13:24:24] <PulkoMandy> then open a ticket on trac and we'll add them[13:24:39] <nitrofurano> pulkomandy i didn't know that, thanks... :)[13:25:13] <nitrofurano> xeon3d the cedilla c in the portuguese keyboard (qwerty) also exists, it's next to 'L'[13:25:35] <RQ> PulkoMandy: by the way, who created Lithuanian layouts?[13:26:00] <Xeon3D> I know, but some years ago, there were keyboards which didn't have it (can't remember if PC or typewriter ones) and it had to be pushed by pushing C and ,[13:26:18] <PulkoMandy> RQ: no idea, they're older than me :)[13:26:22] <RQ> ah[13:26:25] <Xeon3D> nitrofurano: I know, I'm typing from one since I'm also Portuguese.[13:26:25] <RQ> I want them changed[13:26:32] <RQ> is it possible?[13:26:45] <nitrofurano> xeon3d - :)[13:26:50] <PulkoMandy> ask your local i18n list :)[13:26:57] <RQ> PulkoMandy: there's no such list[13:27:15] <PulkoMandy> but yes it is, not so long ago I commited a patch for the french one adding somekeys[13:27:17] <RQ> there's just this guy who doesn't let me add him to my contacts and me[13:27:18] <RQ> ;)[13:27:24] <RQ> and it looks like we work independently[13:27:32] <Xeon3D> nitrofurano may I pm? :P[13:27:48] <nitrofurano> sure! :)[13:27:59] <PulkoMandy> RQ: did you ask for a language manager position ?[13:28:13] <RQ> who do I ask?[13:28:16] <PulkoMandy> if you do, the list will be created as well as some pages on the wiki[13:28:20] <PulkoMandy> haiku-i18n[13:28:32] <PulkoMandy> well, technically I think humdinger is responsible for it[13:28:41] <Xeon3D> PulkoMandy, do u remember the name of the pt_PT head honcho?[13:28:43] <RQ> PulkoMandy: can I ask for the position but not the list?[13:28:50] <Xeon3D> I can only remember his 1st name.[13:29:01] <PulkoMandy> mh... no[13:29:18] <PulkoMandy> RQ: the list is part of the tools we provide[13:29:28] <PulkoMandy> as well as hta, pootle, the wiki[13:29:35] <PulkoMandy> we don't force anyone to use them[13:29:55] <PulkoMandy> if you're the only one subscribed to the list I doubt it's a problem[13:29:56] <RQ> doh :) I thought I could postpone its creation until it's actually needed[13:30:22] <PulkoMandy> it makes it easy to direct people the right way too[13:30:42] <PulkoMandy> when I get some questions specific on a language I don't have to remember who's the manager, I just redirect to the list[13:31:51] *** shinkius has joined #haiku[13:31:59] <shinkius> oops[13:32:08] *** RQ has quit IRC[13:32:12] *** shinkius is now known as RQ[13:32:37] <RQ> virtualbox update reset my network connection[13:32:45] <RQ> PulkoMandy: whatever you said, I missed it[13:33:20] <PulkoMandy> <PulkoMandy> it makes it easy to direct people the right way too[13:33:21] <PulkoMandy> 13:33] <PulkoMandy> when I get some questions specific on a language I don't have to remember who's the manager, I just redirect to the list[13:33:24] *** shinkius has joined #haiku[13:33:27] <shinkius> and again..[13:33:34] *** RQ has quit IRC[13:33:36] *** shinkius is now known as RQ[13:35:37] <PulkoMandy> mh[13:35:49] <PulkoMandy> looks like what I'm trying to say makes you disconnect :)[13:35:57] <RQ> no, not really :)[13:36:00] <RQ> try again[13:36:48] <RQ> actually you know, I almost applied for that position in my first e-mail[13:38:05] <PulkoMandy> yes, just make it official now :)[13:40:48] <RQ> mail sent[13:43:18] <RQ> what did you say I would get?[13:44:14] <PulkoMandy> Mailing list, wiki pages for putting terminology choices on dev.haiku-os.org, and later you'll be the only one allowed to validate/unvalidate strings on hta[13:44:23] <PulkoMandy> (or pootle if we go that way)[13:45:47] <RQ> cool[13:45:50] <RQ> i want that![13:46:29] * Xeon3D pokes mmadia[13:47:02] *** sprma has joined #haiku[13:47:33] *** fhein has quit IRC[13:48:26] <Xeon3D> PulkoMandy you're the user guide creator right? or is that humdinger?[13:51:00] <RQ> PulkoMandy: where does the "Source code:" line appear in AboutSystem?[13:51:09] <RQ> s/AboutSystem/AboutView/[13:51:49] *** phoudoin has quit IRC[13:52:30] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[13:54:24] <Xeon3D> RQ Hows pootle going? :X[13:54:44] <RQ> xeon3d: don't you read haiku-i18n?[13:55:03] <RQ> I sent an email about it at like 2.30 AM tonight my local time[13:55:09] <RQ> :P[13:55:23] <RQ> and you're still asking? :D[13:56:16] <Xeon3D> haven't read the ML's this morning yet[13:56:31] *** markos_ has quit IRC[13:57:13] <RQ> Xeon3D: we'll have to update Pootle to 2.1 beta (or nightly)[13:57:17] <Xeon3D> ok, i've read it.[13:57:19] <CIA-37> axeld * r37647 /haiku/trunk/ (8 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)[13:57:19] <CIA-37> * First part of ICMP support: this is based on the work by Ivo Vachkov (GSoC[13:57:19] <CIA-37> 2007), and Yin Qiu (GSoC 2008). And even though I needed to rewrite pretty[13:57:19] <CIA-37> much all of it because of the countless bugs and problems it had, it still[13:57:19] <CIA-37> shares the same architectural problems of introducing a domain dependent[13:57:28] <PulkoMandy> VinDuv did the tools for that[13:57:35] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[13:58:09] <PulkoMandy> no idea about the "Source code:"... not even sure that should be translated :/[13:58:33] <PulkoMandy> sometimes the guys doing the patches add things that shouldn't be there[14:00:41] <RQ> PulkoMandy: can I give you a suggestion?[14:00:55] <PulkoMandy> I'm here for that :)[14:01:46] <RQ> PulkoMandy: don't split localizable strings into parts and then concat them[14:01:56] <RQ> I see that used in AboutView[14:02:00] <RQ> it's a bad practice[14:02:22] <RQ> use sprintf() modifiers instead[14:02:30] <OmniMancer> use string interpolation instead :P[14:02:44] <OmniMancer> falcon has a string interpolation operator[14:03:08] <OmniMancer> so you just need a localisable string[14:03:19] <RQ> cause now we have two strings that seem unrelated:[14:03:23] <PulkoMandy> yes[14:03:25] <RQ> The code that is unique to Haiku, especially the kernel and all code that applications may link against, is distributed under the terms of the[14:03:29] <RQ> . Some system libraries contain third party code distributed under the LGPL license. You can find the copyrights to third party code below.\n\n[14:03:31] <PulkoMandy> this is done on newer translations[14:03:37] <PulkoMandy> using BString.ReplaceAll[14:04:10] <RQ> well, I don't really care what you use internally, the point is that there should be one string, it shouldn't be split ;)[14:04:11] <PulkoMandy> you can submit patches or report bugs about the places where it still happens[14:04:25] <PulkoMandy> I know, but I can't track them all[14:04:33] <RQ> can I report bugs here? :)[14:04:53] <PulkoMandy> they end up on my personal paper bugtracker[14:04:55] *** kmargar has joined #haiku[14:05:04] <PulkoMandy> which prevents someone else of fixing them faster than me[14:05:23] <RQ> hm...[14:05:46] <PulkoMandy> ok, I noted it[14:05:58] <RQ> thanks[14:06:08] <RQ> it's not critical, so can wait :)[14:06:29] <RQ> and I'm glad that you know about that issue and avoid it in new stuff.[14:07:10] <PulkoMandy> localization is quite new to the haiku devs, so we're trying to improve[14:07:24] <PulkoMandy> but it's hard to do when there is no feedback from the tranlator people[14:07:28] <OmniMancer> I say we should learn from falcon :P[14:07:44] <PulkoMandy> I saw quite horrible things trying to work around some badly done translations and no one said it was a problem to me[14:08:01] *** markos_ has quit IRC[14:08:07] * Xeon3D has complained about some translation-related stuff[14:08:15] <RQ> hm, well, I think I'll report more stuff to you[14:08:28] <RQ> when I find it[14:08:50] <RQ> you can point misbehaving developers to my blog post: http://rq.lt/2010/06/14/software-that-is-actually-localizable/[14:09:07] <RQ> though it looks like you already follow all the suggestions I made[14:09:08] <RQ> :)[14:10:53] <Xeon3D> Rule #7: Whenever possible, leave enough space for the strings to grow. <- this is one.[14:11:05] <Xeon3D> Some GUI designs cut words.[14:11:32] <Xeon3D> Another thing I remember complaining about was the duplicates and triplicates.[14:11:40] <PulkoMandy> I'm still looking for concrete examples of languages with multiple plural forms and where it's needed in Haiku[14:11:45] <Xeon3D> but that one got thru somehow[14:11:51] <RQ> PulkoMandy: there's a link to them[14:13:01] <RQ> for example, Lithuanian would need this when you select some files in file manager, and it should say "21 files selected"[14:15:24] <RQ> basically, in Lithuanian, different plural forms are needed when you want to make a sentence with a number[14:16:28] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[14:17:29] <OmniMancer> the GUI cutting is partly due to the static nature of the Be API[14:17:36] <RQ> PulkoMandy: by the way, remember, you said gettext doesn't support different contexts?[14:17:47] <RQ> it actually does[14:18:07] <OmniMancer> well static nature of the sizes of many things[14:19:02] <RQ> OmniMancer: I remember reading on haiku-os.org that widgets are now flexible[14:19:10] <RQ> I think it was on PulkoMandy's blog too, wasn't it?[14:19:10] <PulkoMandy> RQ: I understand the problem, but I'd like an example where it happens in Haiku so I can test my changes[14:19:13] <OmniMancer> layout API will hopefully help[14:19:32] <PulkoMandy> yes, layout API allows dynamic sizing without ay problem[14:21:43] *** dru345 has quit IRC[14:22:19] *** ari-free has quit IRC[14:22:19] <RQ> PulkoMandy: Contexts can be added to strings to be translated. A context dependent translation lookup is when a translation for a given string is searched, that is limited to a given context. The translation for the same string in a different context can be different. The different translations of the same string in different contexts can be stored in the in the same MO file, and can be edited by the translator in the same PO file.[14:22:25] <RQ> this is from gettext manual[14:23:00] <PulkoMandy> ok, i must have missed it then[14:23:04] *** odites has joined #haiku[14:23:20] <PulkoMandy> so it should e possible to write a gettext format add-on for our locale kit[14:23:53] <RQ> i'd buy you a beer if it became the default format :D[14:24:43] <PulkoMandy> not sure why we would want that... and I don't drink beer, only milk and orange juice :)[14:25:12] <RQ> i'd buy you milk AND orange juice then :)[14:25:50] * Xeon3D would add cookies.[14:25:51] <RQ> and one reason to want it is because it's already in use and already has plural support, though not advanced differentiation like genders...[14:27:55] *** iIngenu has quit IRC[14:28:28] *** iIngenu has joined #haiku[14:28:32] <PulkoMandy> I will use ICU for the plural stuff[14:28:47] <RQ> yeah, you said it[14:28:54] <PulkoMandy> I think I will be able to handle genders too, but it add some work to the translating people[14:29:09] <RQ> that's fine, as long as stuff works :)[14:31:05] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[14:31:36] <RQ> PulkoMandy: I wonder how this will co-exist with tab-separated nature of catkeys though...[14:39:52] <PulkoMandy> ICU has some kind of expression language for it, with rules and what string to use[14:40:53] <PulkoMandy> I didn't look at it too much yet, so I don't remember the exact format, but basically the idea is that you have to specify the rules for your language in the string[14:42:06] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[14:57:19] * Xeon3D is off to bed[14:57:34] *** kmargar is now known as markos_[15:00:43] *** lordnothing has joined #haiku[15:01:16] <lordnothing> hello[15:02:51] <Anarchos> lordnothing ghello[15:08:48] <CIA-37> axeld * r37648 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/ipv4/ipv4.cpp: (log message trimmed)[15:08:48] <CIA-37> * deliver_multicast() now returns whether or not it delivered the buffer,[15:08:48] <CIA-37> instead of always returning B_OK.[15:08:48] <CIA-37> * deliver_multicast() now takes the protocol restriction of a raw socket into[15:08:48] <CIA-37> account.[15:09:05] *** lorglas has quit IRC[15:11:00] * ali3n0 wonders how big is the trunk[15:11:22] <mmadia> depends on your block size.[15:12:31] *** toni_ has quit IRC[15:14:35] <ali3n0> mmadia, 4096[15:14:47] <mmadia> more than a gigabyte.[15:15:01] <ali3n0> wow![15:15:02] *** helf has joined #haiku[15:15:20] <mmadia> that's without objects too.[15:15:51] <ali3n0> damn.. I need a place to check it out, my netbook doesn't fit[15:16:07] <ali3n0> of course I don't really need it all[15:16:20] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[15:16:38] <ali3n0> just curious to have a look at the code[15:17:01] <mmadia> source browser: http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser[15:17:05] *** Jondice has quit IRC[15:17:22] <helf> hi[15:17:23] *** Jondice has joined #haiku[15:18:37] <mmadia> how goes, helf?[15:20:16] <RQ> can I ask a provocatory question? :)[15:22:20] <RQ> why do we use keyboard shortcuts and key names derived from Macs, if our primary target are PCs?[15:23:03] <ali3n0> is svn://svn.berlios.de/haiku/trunk the official repository?[15:23:19] <mmadia> we push back to it, yes ali3n0.[15:23:24] <ali3n0> thx[15:23:30] *** Alam_Squeeze has quit IRC[15:23:34] *** Alam_Squeeze has joined #haiku[15:23:54] *** gordonjcp has quit IRC[15:23:55] <mmadia> though, svn.haiku-os.org is the one that our developers commit to : http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/get-source[15:24:00] * ali3n0 's going to check out haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/scheduler and see what is like[15:25:49] <luroh> RQ: historical reasons, i guess[15:26:12] <luroh> when Haiku started out, people were still using beos[15:26:27] *** toni_ has joined #haiku[15:26:34] <luroh> today it's a bad default, imo[15:26:58] <RQ> luroh: is there a bug about it?[15:27:06] <helf> mmadia, good, you?[15:27:07] <luroh> not that i know[15:27:13] <RQ> gonna file a few[15:27:40] <mmadia> keeping busy, last night i finished my haiku-files.org disk maintenance bash scripts ...[15:27:45] <RQ> what's even worse is that if I switch to Windows/Linux, Ctrl+C no longer works in terminal as it should[15:27:51] <RQ> cause Ctrl is then treated as alt[15:27:59] <gluon> mmadia: cool :)[15:28:25] <mmadia> one will make sure that after X days, each image file is provided as only 1 archive (instead of .tar.xz & .zip)[15:29:07] <mmadia> the other will delete some files, like to turn the 'nightly' collection into 'weekly'.[15:29:16] *** phoudoin has joined #haiku[15:29:31] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o phoudoin[15:29:47] <phoudoin> hi guys[15:29:53] <OmniMancer> RQ: what do you mean?[15:30:11] <RQ> OmniMancer: what exactly are you asking about?[15:30:18] <OmniMancer> do you mean if you change alt to ctrl?[15:30:33] <RQ> yes[15:30:40] <OmniMancer> if you do that you are an inflexcible person who cannot change[15:30:48] <RQ> lol[15:31:16] <OmniMancer> using alt for copy paste and other shortcuts works well because it means you can copy in terminal :P[15:31:34] <RQ> I use both Windows and OS X daily, and Linux sometimes. I certainly don't want to adapt each time I switch a computer[15:31:37] *** toni_ has quit IRC[15:31:42] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[15:31:59] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[15:32:00] <RQ> though yeah, copying is a nice feature. But I would prefer Ctrl+C to still terminate the application when in Terminal[15:32:27] <OmniMancer> it does as long as you don't do evil things to keymaps[15:32:28] <mmadia> Ctrl+C still does that.[15:32:42] <OmniMancer> like change ctrl to alt[15:32:45] <OmniMancer> and alt to ctrl[15:33:11] <OmniMancer> in which case you are asking for trouble and shall receive no sympathy from me :P[15:33:17] <RQ> OmniMancer: see, that's the problem[15:33:21] <RQ> you see it as remaping a key[15:33:29] <RQ> I see it as changing keyboard shortcuts[15:33:42] <RQ> and that's what it should be[15:34:09] *** toni_ has joined #haiku[15:35:02] <RQ> by the way, Alt-C is not even mac-compatible. It's like BeOS wanted to "Think Different" and used yet another key to toggle same function[15:35:24] <RQ> and since there were only three keys – Cmd, Ctrl and Opt, BeOS went with Opt[15:35:33] <RQ> cause others were "taken"[15:35:36] <OmniMancer> I like it[15:35:48] <RQ> it doesn't make much sense for me[15:36:11] <OmniMancer> you should possibly wait until they make shortcuts remappable[15:36:25] <OmniMancer> but if you do it by remapping keys you will get remapped keys[15:37:02] <RQ> are they planning to make shortcuts remappable?[15:37:07] <OmniMancer> shrug[15:37:08] <RQ> instead of keys?[15:37:18] <RQ> then that's the bug I'm gonna file :)[15:37:23] <OmniMancer> I think you should learn to use alt+c as it is a good shortcut[15:37:33] *** iIngenu_ has joined #haiku[15:37:35] <OmniMancer> file it as an enhancement request maybe[15:38:00] <phoudoin> RQ: an enhancement ticket, not a bug one.[15:38:15] <RQ> yes[15:38:29] <RQ> OmniMancer: I don't see how it's better than Ctrl+C[15:38:35] <phoudoin> But don't hold your breath for R1, I'll bet that wont be prioritized high...[15:38:46] <RQ> except it leaves Ctrl+C free for killing terminal a[[[15:38:49] <RQ> *app[15:39:07] <RQ> phoudoin: at least the defaults could be changed, I guess :)([15:39:36] <phoudoin> you could switch from alt to ctrl, then alt-c will kill terminal apps...[15:39:53] <RQ> yes, that's what I did already[15:40:00] <RQ> and I think that should be the default[15:40:34] <RQ> by the way it's kinda weird that there's no option to switch to Mac-like keys, though it would be just as easy :)[15:40:56] <OmniMancer> RQ: I think you are wrong![15:41:23] <RQ> where?[15:41:35] <phoudoin> Well, as I don't share your preference, and many don't either, we choose to have no default's default but the BeOS default ones, with all the unhappyness coming with it already[15:41:37] *** iIngenu has quit IRC[15:42:34] <OmniMancer> unhappyness being windows users who hate differences and want to kill haiku with they hate rays and turn it into windows ;p[15:42:40] <RQ> phoudoin: that makes me guess that you've been using BeOS as a primary OS all along, right?[15:44:16] *** The123king has joined #haiku[15:44:17] *** The123king has joined #haiku[15:44:18] <phoudoin> and MacOS classic, and Windows, and Unix.[15:44:36] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[15:44:39] <phoudoin> My position is there is no defacto default shortcut key.[15:44:43] <RQ> OmniMancer: a difference is only worth it when it adds something. But it's just annoying when it's there only for the sake of itself[15:45:04] <RQ> phoudoin: what would you call a defacto shortcut key?[15:45:30] <phoudoin> R1 aim is R5 compatibility. This include default shortcut key.[15:45:40] <OmniMancer> you admit that it adds something then say it adds nothing[15:46:35] <phoudoin> An hypothetical defacto shortcut key will be one single meta-key used across all user interfaces for shortcut.[15:46:40] <RQ> OmniMancer: I don't consider easier killing of terminal apps as a win big enough to call it a win[15:47:27] <RQ> phoudoin: well that will never exist, I guess. But there is some tendency among those platforms, you know... :)[15:47:55] <OmniMancer> I don't considder your problem a problem big enough to fix[15:49:36] <phoudoin> RQ: yeah, and this tendency are the shortcut+C for copy, the shortcut+V for paste, the shortcut+F for full screen, etc, which Haiku try to follow when possible.[15:49:41] <OmniMancer> I also considder your lack of sight a problem that you should fix[15:50:13] <RQ> phoudoin: shortcut+f is usually Find[15:50:34] <OmniMancer> indeed[15:50:34] <RQ> OmniMancer: don't get too personal pls.[15:50:43] <OmniMancer> shortcut plus enter is fullscreen[15:50:48] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[15:50:51] <phoudoin> RQ: it's all contextual ;-)[15:51:06] <OmniMancer> RQ: you cannot see that a problem that is only subjective is not a problems[15:51:09] <OmniMancer> without an s[15:51:14] *** oZ] has joined #haiku[15:51:19] <phoudoin> oh man, don't told me there is no F letter written on Enter key!?[15:51:54] <phoudoin> Whould explain a lot of my typewritting skill issues...[15:52:15] <RQ> OmniMancer: I just want to avoid that subjective problem for as many people as possible. And I think there are way more users on other platforms right now than on Haiku and BeOS and Zeta combined[15:52:29] <The123king> luckily Haiku can switch between Windows/Linux and BeOS shortcut mappings :)[15:53:05] *** gordonjcp has joined #haiku[15:53:10] <RQ> that's what BeOS mohicans could do :)[15:53:16] <The123king> wow, my Haiku build is about 1 1/2 months old O_O[15:53:37] <The123king> shows you how long i've been booting Haiku as my main system[15:54:14] <mmadia> RQ : Haiku is its own operating system. Many other aspects differ than other OS's.[15:54:35] <mmadia> from the Deskbar, to the title tabs, to the disk layout, .....[15:54:43] <mmadia> it's who and what Haiku is.[15:54:59] <phoudoin> RQ: again, R1 is after R5 compatibility, which include default shortcut key. Anybody is free to setup an alternative "distro" where the default is Windows/Linux one.[15:55:08] <lordnothing> if gobe allows me to port productive, would you guys be amenable to a commercial license if they require us to pay for it?[15:55:10] <RQ> mmadia: I know, but that doesn't mean that if tabs become bars, haiku will be something else[15:55:19] <mmadia> ... as long as they remove the TM's, phoudoin ;)[15:56:06] <phoudoin> Most probably, after R1 Haiku will drop several BeOS legacy, which could indeed concerns default shortcut key. but not before.[15:56:12] <phoudoin> mmadia: of course![15:56:17] <ali3n0> sorry guys, what's R5? a legacy revision?[15:56:28] <lordnothing> beos r5[15:56:32] <ali3n0> ok[15:56:48] <ali3n0> I guess the last available one then[15:56:58] <phoudoin> last Be Inc. public release of BeOS.[15:56:58] <Vroomfondle> the last one that was officially released, yes[15:57:09] <lordnothing> (typing on win mobile sucks)[15:57:11] <ali3n0> how old?[15:57:18] <phoudoin> 2000[15:57:22] <phoudoin> 10 yeras[15:57:25] <phoudoin> years, even[15:57:27] <Vroomfondle> very. March 2000[15:57:47] <OmniMancer> I think people should not have shortcut key problems and learn to be flexible[15:57:51] <ali3n0> uh, 2000 seems a century ago in the it world[15:58:09] <phoudoin> 2000 seems 10 years ago in my world.[15:58:14] *** curlyman has joined #haiku[15:58:19] <RQ> OmniMancer: do you drive on left- or right- hand?[15:58:32] <phoudoin> BTW, ali3n0, how comes your r1a1 -> r1a2 upgrade?[15:58:41] <OmniMancer> I drive on the hand that is lawful in this country once I learn to drive :P[15:58:58] <OmniMancer> besides I have to sleep[15:59:08] <phoudoin> Even better, I drive on the hand that is lawful in the country I have to drive.[15:59:18] <ali3n0> phoudoin, great ,thanks. I did it via usbstick and it went like a charm[15:59:22] <RQ> so, how would you like it if your city decided to adapt driving on the other hand side?[15:59:31] <RQ> just because it's different and people should be flexible? :)[15:59:37] <OmniMancer> stop wanting to take away my nice copy and paste shortcuts[15:59:47] <RQ> i won't[15:59:48] <RQ> ;D[15:59:54] <ali3n0> but for cooling reasons I'm playing with virutalbox more than with eeepc 701[15:59:54] <phoudoin> RQ: I'll comply with the law, even if I found contrary to my taste or habits.[15:59:58] <PulkoMandy> RQ: we tried to switch the shortcut key, but it made the unix gurus angry because then it was alt c to kill an application in terminal[16:00:05] <phoudoin> See, there is a limit to analogy ;-)[16:00:10] <PulkoMandy> and unix gurus+former beos/zeta user made more noise than windows people[16:00:16] <PulkoMandy> (and mac also uses alt)[16:00:17] <RQ> PulkoMandy: that's a bug I'm goind to report anyway :)[16:00:22] <OmniMancer> so just because americans drive on the right they must always drive on the right even when in a country that dirves on the left?[16:00:29] <RQ> switching SHORTCUTS should not remap KEYS[16:00:45] *** ali3n0 has quit IRC[16:01:07] <RQ> OmniMancer: imagine your city separating from US[16:01:18] <OmniMancer> RQ then how would you copy in terminal?[16:01:22] <RQ> and adapting a left-hand drive policy, just so not to be confused with US[16:01:31] <phoudoin> OmniMancer: the good news is with such analogy people using the wrong drive side/shortcut key will quickly learn they do something wrong ;-)[16:01:35] <RQ> OmniMancer: sau ctrl+shift+C[16:01:39] <RQ> or right click[16:01:43] <PulkoMandy> RQ: now, you knowwhy the tunnel between france and UK is for trains only[16:01:45] <RQ> or edit-copy[16:01:50] <OmniMancer> RQ I live in new zealand it is 2am and I have to be at university at 9am it is not time for arguing and you want to steal my default![16:01:57] <PulkoMandy> they couldn't figure out which side would have the area to make drivers change side[16:02:09] <RQ> OmniMancer: that's because I want to enforce my default :)[16:02:17] *** jamy has quit IRC[16:02:34] <OmniMancer> you are not allowed to as it is different to the one that is there and many people like[16:02:47] <RQ> PulkoMandy: that's easily solvable though :)[16:02:51] <RQ> I guess there were other reasons[16:03:08] <PulkoMandy> likely :)[16:03:11] <RQ> OmniMancer: few people, I guess :)[16:03:13] <RQ> not many[16:03:33] <phoudoin> not many but more ;-)[16:03:40] <OmniMancer> those few people like it so much they would probably beat you up to keep it :P[16:04:05] * phoudoin likes the defaults wars. Everybody dies... er, lost.[16:04:06] <PulkoMandy> mh... windows and linux use the control=shortcut way. Amiga, mac, BeOS, and likely a lot of others OS use ALT[16:04:31] <RQ> PulkoMandy: wrong[16:04:35] <RQ> Mac uses Cmd[16:04:37] <Vroomfondle> Mac uses cmd, surely[16:04:39] <OmniMancer> I think we have a storm in a teacup[16:04:39] <RQ> the apple key[16:04:39] <luroh> (fwiw, i'm not with the guy who lives upside down and drives on the wrong side ;)[16:04:47] <PulkoMandy> yes, and Amiga use the Amiga key[16:04:50] <OmniMancer> please kill RQ quickly before it becomes a gale :P:P[16:04:53] <PulkoMandy> but finger-memory wise it's the same[16:05:11] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o PulkoMandy[16:05:12] <PulkoMandy> and that's what really matter in the end[16:05:15] <phoudoin> Who cares, next platform will be tablet![16:05:21] <PulkoMandy> if you look at it that way, we use command too[16:05:26] <RQ> PulkoMandy: well, Apple keyboard has Cmd and Alt swapped, but that's their problem I guess :D[16:05:31] <phoudoin> no more keyboards, no more default shortcut key wars![16:05:42] <phoudoin> Everybody wins. Except for fingers.[16:05:49] <PulkoMandy> we use command too, that's what the key is called everywhere[16:06:00] <saivert> I like Haiku and all but straying away from standard PC keyboard keys is a bit odd[16:06:01] <OmniMancer> RQ: so you defeat your own argument by stating that it is invalid[16:06:06] <PulkoMandy> the keyboard on your pc not matching BeOS/Haiku is a small hardware compatibility problem[16:06:10] <OmniMancer> then argue that you are right[16:06:12] <PulkoMandy> print stickers and be done with it[16:06:38] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37649 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs):[16:06:38] <CIA-37> * BCountry : add copy constructor and assignment operator[16:06:38] <CIA-37> * The locale roster uses them instead of messing with pointers, to avoid ownership problems[16:06:38] <CIA-37> * The Locale preflet works on a copy of the default country instead of altering it directly[16:06:56] <saivert> problem is the terminal not behaving like the rest of the system[16:07:01] <phoudoin> saivert: PC keyboard are OS agnostic. Even ones with windows keys printed on it.[16:07:03] <saivert> like Ctrl should be a Control, not command[16:07:09] <OmniMancer> kill the terminall![16:07:26] <OmniMancer> night[16:07:27] *** OmniMancer has left #haiku[16:07:28] <matthias9> hah[16:07:30] <phoudoin> Terminalt the Ctrlill![16:07:39] * lordnothing points up to his question about gobe[16:07:41] <matthias9> reading this "flamewar" about keyboard shortcuts is fun[16:07:48] <phoudoin> Sorry lordnothing.[16:07:51] <matthias9> esp. this Windows/Linux[16:07:54] <RQ> gee, i'm still gonna put that feature request[16:07:59] <matthias9> on Linux it really depends on the application[16:08:05] <saivert> At least Linux treats the Windows key as "Super"[16:08:06] <matthias9> I always get mixed up[16:08:21] <saivert> and very few GNU/Linux apps depend on the Super key[16:08:23] <phoudoin> RQ: feature request make sense.[16:08:23] <matthias9> windows key for me is Mode_switch :p[16:08:28] <saivert> they mostly stick to Ctrl and Alt[16:08:33] <RQ> saivert: I don't think Linux has notion of a Command key[16:08:34] <RQ> does it?[16:08:37] <saivert> no[16:08:42] <matthias9> like xfig using alt+s, alt+c, etc. for save, copy, ...[16:08:49] <saivert> as I said. it handles SUper key but doesn't depend on it to be present[16:08:52] <matthias9> firefox, gimp use ctrl+s, etc.[16:08:52] <RQ> Cmd is also treated as Super, I think[16:09:07] <phoudoin> lordnothing: what do you mean with "amenable"?[16:09:15] <saivert> and you don't need the Windows key to be present in Windows[16:09:16] <matthias9> unix systems always had Mod1, Mod2, Mod3, Mod4 at least[16:09:18] <saivert> you can get by without it[16:09:20] <RQ> matthias9: well, the "big" desktop environments are all consistent[16:09:23] <saivert> using other keyboard shortcuts[16:09:30] <saivert> Command in Haiku is required for normal use[16:09:33] <matthias9> Shift, Control, Alt, Super (with left/right variants)[16:09:35] <lordnothing> agreeable[16:09:36] <matthias9> and Mode_switch[16:09:45] <matthias9> and modifiers are different from these keys[16:09:52] <matthias9> and you can bind anyshit to a modifier number[16:09:59] <matthias9> at least on X11[16:10:08] <helf> its easier to just disable keyboard modifiers and put everything in huge menu constructs[16:10:10] <matthias9> and there you have the freedom to do anyshit with shortcuts[16:10:28] <saivert> I would argue that Command key is not actually a modifier in Mac/Haiku as it is used in a much more pervasive manner[16:10:56] <matthias9> sadly most X11-application developers esp. those using toolkits seem to not understand that X11 distinguishes between the keys and modifiers for a reason[16:10:56] <phoudoin> would we agree to pay a commercial licence for porting Gobe Productive to Haiku, is this your question?[16:11:18] <matthias9> like in our case RQ and the rest would be happy, as everyone would using exactly the key he/she likes[16:11:20] <RQ> by the way, is it normal for keyboard layouts to have stuff in Ctrl layer and mac-like junk in Alt+Shift layer?[16:11:46] <lordnothing> yes.[16:11:58] <RQ> really?[16:12:05] <lordnothing> if they let me do it under an nda, would you be willing to pay for it[16:12:33] <saivert> then you would be better off porting OpenOffice[16:12:33] <RQ> what?[16:12:45] <saivert> just making a native GUI frontend to the OpenOffice core[16:12:50] <RQ> oh, you're talking about gobe[16:12:52] <matthias9> yeah - plus - openoffice is probably more bloated![16:13:01] *** leszek has joined #haiku[16:13:03] <saivert> I said making a native gui frontend[16:13:19] <saivert> I doubt the core parts of OpenOffice are that bloated[16:13:24] <leszek> hi[16:13:33] <matthias9> hmm compiling the core parts is fun[16:13:40] <matthias9> the package is really huge[16:13:50] <luroh> lordnothing: to answer your question, no, i have no need for it and i'd rather give the money to Haiku[16:13:58] <matthias9> but "bloated" maybe depends on your point of view[16:14:01] <PulkoMandy> lordnothing: I don't think Haiku, Inc would, but you vould try an Haikuware bounty[16:14:46] <saivert> because any effort put into Gobe would be wasted because it would still be under a restrictive license[16:14:54] <saivert> and closed source[16:16:35] <saivert> http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/project_renaissance_kick_off1[16:16:53] <saivert> < Project “Renaissance” - Create a New User Interface for OOo >[16:17:32] *** The123king has quit IRC[16:18:13] <PulkoMandy> I don't mind having closed source apps running on Haiku, it would be a sign that the system managed to fulfill its goals - replace BeOS R5 as a viable OS for people to sell software on[16:18:25] <PulkoMandy> but that doesn't mean I'd buy them either ...[16:18:45] <matthias9> ok - going home - bbl[16:19:37] <lordnothing> i wasn't asking to be paid. i just need to know what to say if gobe won't let us distribute binaries[16:19:49] <phoudoin> lordnothing: Well, it depends on how much they want us to pay.[16:20:41] <lordnothing> my opinion is "they have to eat, too"[16:20:50] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC[16:21:23] <phoudoin> I already own BeOS version of Gobe Productive. I won't pay again as much for the exact same. Either it's cheaper or it's better (being freely redistributable with Haiku qualify as *better* for instance)[16:21:39] <luroh> well, for all intents and purposes, gobe is not really a practicing company anymore[16:21:53] <luroh> no squads of programmers, no marketing people, etc[16:22:08] <mmadia> lordnothing : Gobe will only allow us to distribute the builds they produce -- that was part of the NDA.[16:22:20] <luroh> it's just a guy and some source code[16:22:33] <phoudoin> Every body have to eat. The question is does what Gobe Productive v2 (or is v3?) have to offer for what price worth I eat a little less this month. :-)[16:22:36] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[16:22:51] <mmadia> eg, people under the NDA cannot release development builds.[16:23:00] <lordnothing> so, i send them patches and they build it, no?[16:23:09] <lorglas> hello[16:23:19] <PulkoMandy> yes, but you have to wait for v4 :)[16:23:35] <phoudoin> PulkoMandy: good point ;-)[16:25:53] <RQ> is gobe compatible with any popular document formats?[16:26:00] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[16:26:48] <phoudoin> RQ: according to v3.04 features list, yes: http://www.gobe.com/products/productive/gobeproductive.html[16:27:33] <RQ> GoBeProductive is compatible with Microsoft® Word® and Excel®.[16:27:38] <RQ> doesn't mention which versions[16:27:52] <RQ> for example, Word 6 isn't a popular format anymore[16:28:17] <lordnothing> i'm waiting for a reply from gobe on whether i can do it or not[16:28:59] <RQ> gee, and he still uses flash buttons for navigation[16:29:00] <RQ> how lame[16:29:20] <phoudoin> RQ: v3.x was written around 2002 at most. You guess the rest from that.[16:29:26] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[16:29:45] <phoudoin> There is a trial version available to download though, for those who wants to check it.[16:29:47] <RQ> then it will probably not support opendocument or ooxml[16:30:29] <PulkoMandy> on Haiku it uses translators, no ?[16:30:33] <mmadia> mmu_screen : had an idea of taking OOo's source and creating Text Translators based off it.[16:30:59] <michaelvo> :P nice ideas[16:31:19] <phoudoin> lordnothing: I understand your worry. There is no point that *you* pay for porting their software to Haiku, this cost should be paid by the end-user.[16:31:56] <phoudoin> PulkoMandy: yep, Gobe adds several translators, I dunno it they all works as expected under Haiku...[16:32:10] <PulkoMandy> would the OOo translator make a good GSoC project ?[16:32:36] <RQ> are those translators gobe-specific?[16:32:41] <RQ> or are they OS-wise?[16:33:06] <phoudoin> issue is we don't any *document* system format, only *styled-text* one.[16:33:56] <phoudoin> they're system-wise, as any translators. But I think they use some specific io messaging to ask their translators to do some extras.[16:34:16] <PulkoMandy> translators are os-wise... but no other app is using these[16:34:50] <phoudoin> Once Haiku will have select its official format to represent a *document*, then porting OOo importer/exporter source to translator format will make sense.[16:34:57] <RQ> hm[16:35:11] <RQ> what do you think of abiword?[16:35:26] <RQ> it used to have a BeOS port, and it is OSS[16:35:43] <phoudoin> PulkoMandy: I can select a text clipping and drag & drop to the desktop and select Word document. Quite useless, but it works.[16:35:48] <NeonLicht> I think all word processors suck, Abiword sucks a bit less.[16:36:09] <PulkoMandy> phoudoin: a document is just a list of paragraphs with style/type (title, or whatever)[16:36:14] <PulkoMandy> or do I miss something else ?[16:36:40] <RQ> perhaps it would make sense to port free Abiword again and put it in Haiku by default instead of porting propriatary GoBe[16:36:42] <RQ> ?[16:36:56] <PulkoMandy> now that we have an extended archiving API, it could be really easy to do that...[16:37:21] <phoudoin> + pagination information + toc + xref + layout info + links + images + whatever could comes in the future.[16:37:26] <PulkoMandy> RQ: the problem is, we're developping an OS, not the apps to run on it[16:37:40] <RQ> PulkoMandy: but the guy wants to work on Gobe[16:37:43] *** Dane__ has joined #haiku[16:37:47] <Dane__> good morning[16:37:49] <PulkoMandy> he's not Haiku :)[16:37:53] <RQ> why not suggest him to work on AbiWord instead? :)[16:38:06] <Dane__> Hey, what's the bash command that'll get rid of a directory, including all contents in the directory?[16:38:07] <RQ> i'm not asking that you work on any of these apps ;)[16:38:10] <phoudoin> Because we want to work on Gobe? ;-)[16:38:14] <Dane__> rmdir doesn't seem to work for me[16:38:15] <PulkoMandy> Dane__: rm -f directory[16:38:16] <RQ> Dane__ : rm -Rf dir[16:38:23] <Dane__> ok great trying that[16:38:24] <Dane__> thanks[16:38:29] <PulkoMandy> (be careful with it)[16:38:33] <phoudoin> rm -Rf dir (beware!)[16:38:46] <HeTo> rm -R dir[16:38:48] <RQ> phoudoin: why do you want to work on it?[16:39:08] *** knut_ has joined #haiku[16:39:10] <phoudoin> HeTo: the -f option is to avoid confirm question...[16:39:12] <HeTo> it's safer without the f (although if you have a lot of write-protected files, by all means add f)[16:39:13] <PulkoMandy> Gobe would be likely easier to get to run[16:39:20] <PulkoMandy> as it's already running :)[16:39:35] <phoudoin> RQ: sorry, because *he* wants to work on Gobe.[16:39:48] <phoudoin> And because what PulkoMandy just said.[16:40:07] <PulkoMandy> it's already fully integrated in BeOS/Haiku, in a way that Abiword never will be[16:40:08] <lordnothing> and it has history with the beos community :)[16:40:14] <PulkoMandy> look at Web+ vs BeZillaBrowser[16:40:19] <phoudoin> HeTo: I know, hence the beware notice :)[16:40:41] <mmadia> Dane__ : make sure you escape any spaces in the command,[16:41:00] <lordnothing> and OOo and abiword pull in gtk+ crap[16:41:26] <mmadia> Dane__ : as rm -rf /boot/home/My Documents/temp will delete more than you'd expect.[16:41:27] <PulkoMandy> lordnothing: a good port would rewrite the gui completely and keep only the core system[16:41:31] <phoudoin> lordnothing: don't expect it too much, the blue lotus group who now own Gobe Productive distribution rights have no beos community history at all.[16:41:56] <HeTo> phoudoin: but unless you know there are going to be a lot of write-protected files, at least not using -f will make it more probable that you notice if you made an error[16:42:15] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[16:42:36] <NeonLicht> You should *NOT* make an error if you use "rm -r", HeTo :-)[16:42:44] <phoudoin> HeTo: true, but he ask the command to get ride of everything, we gave him (with a big beware sign!) :-)[16:43:14] <phoudoin> Dane__: how comes your bounty?[16:43:21] <gordonjcp> if you use rm -rf and make a mess, then you have learned a valuable lesson[16:44:12] <gordonjcp> everyone needs to to "ar emm dash ar eff slash" at some point in their Unix-using career ;-)[16:44:27] <gordonjcp> *to do[16:44:40] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[16:45:09] <RQ> PulkoMandy: AbiWord used to work on BeOS, and it was a native app[16:45:29] <phoudoin> nope, it was a port with a native GUI.[16:45:48] <phoudoin> The v2 should still be available somewhere on the net, even.[16:45:59] <RQ> yeah, it was a port with a native UI http://www.applefritter.com/images/abiword-2617.jpg[16:46:06] <RQ> no GTK involved, I guess ;)[16:47:35] <phoudoin> Nope.[16:48:10] <phoudoin> Very similar to WebKit design : an huge core code relying on a thick adapter layer for each port.[16:48:43] <PulkoMandy> the toolbar uses tk pixmaps[16:51:10] <CIA-37> axeld * r37650 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/ (icmp/icmp.cpp ipv4/ipv4.cpp):[16:51:10] <CIA-37> * ICMP now removes its header before passing the error on to the upper levels.[16:51:10] <CIA-37> * Therefore, IPv4 no longer needs to mess with that (incorrectly, anyway).[16:51:10] <CIA-37> * Removed unused include, turned off ICMP debug output.[16:51:58] <RQ> PulkoMandy: do you plan to rename the file in http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/data/catalogs/bin/ ?[16:52:59] <RQ> though I'd really love to have appname subfolders there...[16:53:26] *** curlyman has quit IRC[16:54:06] <phoudoin> The issue with such design is small alternative ports needs to play catch-up race with the major ports, as the core design evolves to support latest GUI stuffs in those platforms, forcing other ports to fix their stuffs.[16:54:13] <CIA-37> axeld * r37651 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/udp/udp.cpp:[16:54:13] <CIA-37> * First (untested) steps into ICMP support for UDP: we should send port[16:54:13] <CIA-37> unreached ICMP messages now, and at least signal an error to select() (there[16:54:13] <CIA-37> is no mechanism yet to actually forward the error to userland).[16:56:12] <RQ> phoudoin: well, at least it's been worked on for the past ten years ;)[16:56:31] *** Ola has joined #haiku[16:56:53] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37652 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/locale/ (TimeFormatSettingsView.cpp TimeFormatSettingsView.h): * Set the default country when closing the preflet.[16:57:00] *** Ola is now known as Guest37355[16:58:12] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[17:00:16] <PulkoMandy> RQ: yes, likely there will be subfolders, but it's not too important right now[17:00:45] <RQ> PulkoMandy: well, it is for me and Pootle :)[17:01:08] *** Guest37355 is now known as OlaHughson[17:01:30] <PulkoMandy> expect things to move around at some point :)[17:02:11] <RQ> I'd buy you a milk if that happened sooner[17:02:13] <RQ> :)[17:02:42] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[17:03:14] <PulkoMandy> I'm doing more important things right now, but it's on my todo list, don't worry[17:05:43] <RQ> ok[17:06:49] <lordnothing> ugh. zsirc doesn't support ctcp[17:08:12] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[17:08:30] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[17:13:20] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[17:13:20] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37653 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/fs/Volume.cpp: Debug output.[17:20:14] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37654 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/fs/Block.cpp: Get{Writable,Zero}(): Fixed return values. The type is bool not status_t.[17:20:31] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37655 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/fs/Transaction.cpp: Debug output.[17:22:20] *** RQ has quit IRC[17:23:04] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[17:24:53] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37656 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/fs/BlockAllocator.cpp:[17:24:53] <CIA-37> * Cleaned up debug output.[17:24:53] <CIA-37> * _AllocateInGroup(): Fixed incorrect checks. The allocation group counts the[17:24:53] <CIA-37> free, not the used blocks.[17:24:53] <CIA-37> * _AllocateInBitmapBlock(): Fixed allocation loop. It was neither incrementing[17:25:04] *** lorglas has quit IRC[17:25:18] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37657 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/AboutSystem.cpp: * Fix a string that was unpractical and confusing for translations.[17:26:15] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37658 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/driver/checksum_device.cpp:[17:26:15] <CIA-37> Added support for using underlying devices -- we need to get the size with[17:26:15] <CIA-37> the B_GET_GEOMETRY ioctl instead.[17:28:45] *** toni_ has quit IRC[17:30:00] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[17:31:06] *** Dane__ has quit IRC[17:46:17] *** jmelesky has joined #haiku[17:47:34] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[17:49:37] <CIA-37> humdinger * r37659 /haiku/trunk/docs/userguide/ (70 files in 36 dirs): Update of the user guide and its translations.[17:58:52] *** kurain__ has joined #haiku[17:58:56] *** ali3n0 has joined #haiku[17:59:00] <ali3n0> hi folks[17:59:14] <michaelvo> hi[17:59:20] <kurain__> hello all[17:59:21] <ali3n0> finally connecting via vision[17:59:41] <ali3n0> well, not finally actually, because I'm still virtualizing haiku so far :-/[17:59:43] <michaelvo> ;)[18:00:04] <michaelvo> use it in real hardware[18:00:07] <michaelvo> ;)[18:00:24] <ali3n0> eheh, I've got just an eeepc but it gets very hot[18:01:00] <ali3n0> still have to find my way through the gui[18:01:15] <ali3n0> next step will be to place it on a workstation[18:01:41] *** stpere has quit IRC[18:03:02] *** stpere has joined #haiku[18:04:54] *** sprma has quit IRC[18:06:37] <ali3n0> vision: any shortcut to toggle tabs?[18:06:54] <phoudoin> ali3n0: did you check in the BIOS, Asus usually offer some BIOS-driven fans control...[18:07:21] <ali3n0> phoudoin, didn't think about[18:07:32] * ali3n0 is checking bios[18:07:41] <phoudoin> Q-Fan, they call it ;-)[18:08:51] <ali3n0> phoudoin, no luck, maybe firmware too old[18:08:52] <kurain__> it is time to sleep , bye all[18:08:59] *** kurain__ has left #haiku[18:10:36] <CIA-37> axeld * r37660 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/net/icmp.h:[18:10:36] <CIA-37> * Fixed broken decode function. I wonder how that one could have been missed[18:10:36] <CIA-37> before...[18:10:55] <phoudoin> which eeepc, ali3n0 ?[18:11:01] <ali3n0> 701[18:11:38] *** nitrofurano has quit IRC[18:11:58] <ali3n0> can't find the model on case though[18:12:14] <ali3n0> eeepc 4g it says, but I?m pretty sure it was the very first model[18:13:26] <phoudoin> 701 4g?[18:13:34] <ali3n0> guess so[18:13:41] <ali3n0> there's no 701 on the case though[18:13:58] <phoudoin> SSD or HDD?[18:14:02] <ali3n0> ssd[18:14:09] <phoudoin> here we go[18:14:42] <ali3n0> so 4g stands for the storage, now I get it[18:18:34] <phoudoin> was it as hot when booted from your USB key?[18:19:00] <ali3n0> I've booted crunchbang linux now to see if I can see any difference[18:19:41] <ali3n0> phoudoin, actually I've been playing while on boot from usbkey very little[18:19:54] <ali3n0> can't remember anything about temperature[18:20:23] <CIA-37> axeld * r37661 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/ (icmp/icmp.cpp ipv4/ipv4.cpp): * Improved debug output; ipv4 will now dump the whole header if TRACE_IPV4 is defined.[18:20:57] *** RQ has joined #haiku[18:21:27] <phoudoin> people seems to have hot issue with Linux on SSD version of EEEPC.[18:21:33] <Duggan> hi guys[18:21:38] <phoudoin> Or at least that what Internet reports[18:21:39] <ali3n0> hi there[18:21:42] <phoudoin> Hi Duggan[18:21:59] <ali3n0> phoudoin, yeah it's getting hotter[18:22:57] <michaelvo> Hi Duggan[18:23:06] <michaelvo> do you got gcc4hybrid?[18:24:11] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[18:26:22] <phoudoin> ali3n0: Okay, guess I've no answer until we support ACPI fan control. Meanwhile, give a look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16relOwEmW8[18:27:00] *** marc_smith has joined #haiku[18:28:06] <mmu_screen> anyone better at gimp/wonderbrush/whatever ? that's for virtualbox: http://revolf.free.fr/beos/os_haiku.png http://revolf.free.fr/beos/os_beos.png[18:29:44] <CIA-37> bonefish * r37662 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/file_corruption/fs/checksumfs.cpp:[18:29:44] <CIA-37> checksumfs_io(): We are responsible for calling notify_io_request() when we[18:29:44] <CIA-37> decide to fail for some reason.[18:30:02] <RQ> mmu_screen these are cool[18:30:12] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[18:30:30] <RQ> though H should be a little bolder I think[18:30:42] <ali3n0> suggestion for www.haiku-os.org: place a link to this on the homepage: http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/building/get-source[18:31:53] <ali3n0> it's not so evident it's an open source project, and personally I think it's very important to show[18:32:12] <PulkoMandy> there is a link to the guides/ page that should be easy enough to get[18:32:28] <PulkoMandy> linking every page of the site on the home page is likely not a good idea[18:32:37] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[18:32:37] <ali3n0> yeah but I think it could be stressed a bit that's open[18:32:51] <PulkoMandy> it's written in the introduction text, no ?[18:33:13] <ali3n0> maybe a bullet point under INSTALL HAIKU[18:33:16] <PulkoMandy> Haiku is a new open-source operating system[18:33:25] <PulkoMandy> the first thing I read when looking at the page[18:33:25] <ali3n0> get source code! or something[18:33:37] <RQ> PulkoMandy not everyone knows we have to go to a GUIDE just to download nightly[18:33:47] <RQ> or source code[18:33:51] <PulkoMandy> we don't want people to download that[18:34:04] <RQ> you should want :)[18:34:09] <PulkoMandy> no[18:34:20] <PulkoMandy> we should release more alphas versions, mor eoften[18:34:24] <ali3n0> well is just a suggestion because I noticed it's a little bit hidden[18:34:34] <Duggan> hey michaelvo.... I installed a gcc4 build on my other partition[18:34:35] <PulkoMandy> nightlies and sourcecode are for development work[18:34:37] <RQ> well, at least a link to source code wouldn't hurt[18:34:40] <Duggan> sorry, was working on a project hehe[18:34:50] <PulkoMandy> ask some normal people, show them the website of debian for example[18:34:51] <marc_smith> I think anyone who's interrested have no probls with finding nigthly builds ;)[18:35:06] <RQ> by the way, why is Cmd called Opt in menus?[18:35:09] <PulkoMandy> it's so much oriented to sourcecode and stuff that even I am in trouble when I just need an iso[18:35:12] <mmadia> also, the front page says "Haiku is a new open-source operating system ...."[18:35:15] <RQ> that doesn't even rhyme with macs[18:35:16] <Duggan> nightlies are actually a little difficult to find[18:35:42] <ali3n0> I think the central column is the most eye-catching[18:35:44] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[18:35:52] <Duggan> RQ I have neither a cmd nor an opt button :/[18:35:53] *** J-Ho has left #haiku[18:35:56] <PulkoMandy> the site is made for end-users of haiku[18:36:03] <RQ> Duggan me neither[18:36:04] <PulkoMandy> that is, people that just want to use their computer[18:36:27] <mmadia> ... i'd love for the entire site to be redesigned.[18:36:28] <PulkoMandy> so, it points to useful things : downloads, and the user guide[18:36:30] <RQ> PulkoMandy ok, then another suggestion: how about making submenus work for all menu items, not just the one i'm in?[18:36:33] <PulkoMandy> and the community[18:36:45] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[18:36:54] <mmadia> especially auditing all of the content & re-organizing it[18:36:58] <RQ> it's kinda frustrating to be looking for something and find yourself clicking numerous times just to find out it's in the other menu item[18:37:00] <ali3n0> PulkoMandy ok, sorry, didn't meant to flame[18:37:17] <PulkoMandy> RQ: it would likely take a lot of space ... but yes I agree to that[18:37:19] <RQ> by the way, you don't want to be source-code oriented, that's fine. But currently, it's basically hidden[18:37:27] <ali3n0> I've taken 5 or 6 clicks and a search to find svn repo, so I pointed it out[18:37:37] <RQ> PulkoMandy no, it wouldn't. The submenus only appear on hover[18:37:39] <PulkoMandy> there's too much things on the site, that's the problem[18:37:48] <ali3n0> but there's no repo[18:37:55] <RQ> PulkoMandy go to development for example[18:38:03] <RQ> the Development menu only expands when you're there[18:38:14] <RQ> and not when you're in e.g. Documents[18:38:33] <RQ> but that wouldn't take ANY space, indeed...[18:39:42] <PulkoMandy> look at the tons of things there are in the "about" submenu[18:39:59] <PulkoMandy> err[18:40:03] <PulkoMandy> you're right. I get lost.[18:40:10] <michaelvo> hahahaha[18:40:13] <RQ> not really tons[18:40:24] <RQ> that's just seven submenu items[18:40:33] <PulkoMandy> yes[18:40:39] <RQ> and anyway, they aren't shown until you hover "About"[18:40:43] <PulkoMandy> I meant the homepage, but apparently that's one different one[18:40:45] <RQ> so it doesn't hurt if they are there[18:41:06] <RQ> who's responsible for the website?[18:41:46] <PulkoMandy> there are no teams anymore, as I said... but I'd say mmadia, nielx, and likely some others[18:42:19] *** iIngenu_ has quit IRC[18:43:24] <PulkoMandy> RS: so yes, it's really messy with all these menus, submenus, sections, subsections, etc[18:43:31] *** jmayfield__ has joined #haiku[18:44:20] <mmadia> at least the site doesn't say "HAIKU OPERATING SYSTEM" anymore. :)[18:45:15] <RQ> what's bad about it?[18:45:15] <RQ> :D[18:45:29] <PulkoMandy> I think the ideal solution would be to split the site in a marketing one, and one for dev-oriented stuff[18:45:42] <mmadia> it's like saying "RQ Human Being" all of the time.[18:46:05] * ali3n0 gets a shower[18:46:07] * ali3n0 is idle: BRB[18:46:07] <PulkoMandy> but the forums/community thing would have to be just between...[18:46:21] <PulkoMandy> mmadia: well, they say "Debian GNU with Linux" now :)[18:47:08] <PulkoMandy> (and it should'nt be too long before RMS asks them to be more precise and say 'Linux Kernel'[18:47:59] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[18:51:10] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[18:52:05] <RQ> PulkoMandy isn't Haiku essentially GNU/Haiku too right now?[18:52:07] <RQ> ;)[18:52:58] <jmayfield__> yay for rms[18:53:22] <PulkoMandy> RQ: it is... but not as far as essentially[18:54:05] <PulkoMandy> remove everything that's not GPL licensed, you'd be left with a thing barely booting to a bash prompt on the serial port[18:56:04] <Duggan> I dont recall seeing much GPLed source...[18:56:14] <Duggan> actually I don't recall seeing any...[18:57:10] *** odites has quit IRC[18:58:05] <PulkoMandy> all the binutils, gcc[18:58:43] <PulkoMandy> in the system itself we avoided it[18:58:55] <PulkoMandy> but I believe bash is gpl too ? or am I wrong ?[18:59:30] <RQ> i think it is[18:59:31] <Duggan> well I disagree thoroughly with your statement above...[19:01:15] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37663 /haiku/trunk/src/ (3 files in 3 dirs):[19:01:15] <CIA-37> * Locale Roster : add a function to update the settings from a BMessage[19:01:15] <CIA-37> * Locale preference : send such a message broadcast to all applications when the settings are changed[19:01:15] <CIA-37> * Deskbar : receive the message and forward it to the locale roster. This way the time display on the deskbar changes as[19:01:15] <CIA-37> soon as you close the locale preflet.[19:02:03] *** Nies has joined #haiku[19:09:52] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[19:15:08] *** GedMurphy has quit IRC[19:15:13] *** brobostigon has joined #haiku[19:15:51] <RQ> humdinger hi[19:15:59] <brobostigon> evening all.[19:16:08] <humdinger> hello RQ[19:16:12] <humdinger> hi brobostigon[19:16:24] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[19:16:32] <brobostigon> hi humdinger and RQ[19:16:40] <RQ> hi brobostigon[19:16:52] <RQ> humdinger how about my position?[19:16:52] <RQ> ;)[19:17:21] <humdinger> RQ, as I said, fine by me.[19:17:32] * ali3n0 has returned[19:17:42] <humdinger> RQ: if you're more guys, I can set up a mailing list and wiki pages for you.[19:18:16] <ali3n0> hi all. is there a way to invoke Team Monitor other than via ctrl-alt-del ?[19:18:34] <RQ> humdinger well, it was PulkoMandy's idea :)[19:18:38] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[19:18:49] <RQ> for me, just a position is enough, I don't need a mailing list yet[19:18:56] <RQ> just POWER[19:18:56] <RQ> :D[19:18:58] <humdinger> RQ: If you're alone, there's not much sense in a ml, is there? :)[19:19:17] <RQ> no, not at all[19:19:28] <RQ> though there's two of us[19:19:37] <humdinger> RQ: As per our guidelines, user guide translations should only be done in a team.[19:19:43] <humdinger> OK.[19:19:58] <RQ> but the other guy doesn't add me to his jabber contacts, and I haven't written him an e-mail yet[19:20:28] <humdinger> Maybe you should do that. I'll create the ml, which takes a day or so to become active.[19:20:59] <humdinger> ali3n0: I don't know that there is... VirtualBox, right?[19:21:09] <ali3n0> humdinger, right[19:21:45] <ali3n0> nevermind[19:21:46] <RQ> humdinger: fine by me, though I'm not yet convinced I need an ML[19:22:05] <humdinger> I thought I read that on i18n ml...[19:22:17] <humdinger> communication problems due lack of a ml[19:22:20] *** ziomatto has quit IRC[19:23:38] <humdinger> RQ: OK, then we wait with that ml and wiki until you decide you need it. Maybe when there are more people involved.[19:23:58] <RQ> ok[19:24:31] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[19:24:50] <PulkoMandy> oh, I found a way to crash webPositive just by clicking a link :o[19:25:17] <PulkoMandy> and it crashes app_server too[19:25:31] <humdinger> PulkoMandy: the other way around would be more of an achievment...[19:27:07] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[19:27:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[19:27:35] <humdinger> I recently had a (spam) email that crashes the app_server when forwarding it.[19:27:46] <humdinger> I'll file a ticket when I find it again.[19:28:42] * PulkoMandy wonders how one discover such bugs... trying to forward smap mails ?[19:29:14] <humdinger> It was addressed to a ml I'm moderating. I wanted to reject it.[19:29:41] <humdinger> There's a thunderstorm brewing here....[19:29:45] <humdinger> I have to go.[19:29:49] <humdinger> cya[19:29:50] *** humdinger has quit IRC[19:30:45] *** sprma has joined #haiku[19:31:48] *** OlaHughson has quit IRC[19:33:16] *** lordnothing has quit IRC[19:39:03] *** mmadia has quit IRC[19:39:15] *** Cloud_ has joined #haiku[19:39:21] <Cloud_> Hi ![19:41:27] <Cloud_> I'm trying Haiku on VirtualPC, it's running smoothly but there is a huge lag/delay on the mouse pointer. Any idea what's causing it/how it could be solved ?[19:42:04] <RQ> hm[19:42:14] <RQ> no delay for me on VirtualBox[19:42:20] <Cloud_> I've also tried win3.1 on the same install earlier today with no such problem[19:43:40] <Cloud_> Delay tend to varie depending how long I mouse the pointer like it's filling a buffer[19:45:10] <RQ> it could be specific to VirtualPC, I think[19:45:44] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37664 /haiku/trunk/headers/os/locale/LocaleRoster.h: * Missing from the previous commit. Sorry ! Thanks to luroh for watching.[19:48:09] *** Meanwhile has joined #haiku[19:50:46] * michaelvo building flobopuyo with OpenGL enabled: the sound initializes.. but the black screen appears %$#@*&[19:55:09] *** The123king has joined #haiku[19:55:09] *** The123king has joined #haiku[19:57:01] *** michaelvo has quit IRC[19:58:43] <CIA-37> humdinger * r37665 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/AboutSystem.cpp: Added Pengfei Han (kurain) for the Chinese translation. Thanks.[19:59:42] <CIA-37> pulkomandy * r37666 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/locale/LocaleSettings.cpp: * Make the locale settings apply immediately when the user clicks on something rather than on preflet close.[20:05:45] *** ambroff has joined #haiku[20:14:04] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC[20:16:44] <CIA-37> zooey * r37667 /haiku/branches/developer/zooey/posix-locale/ (10 files in 5 dirs):[20:16:44] <CIA-37> * fixed towctrans() implementation[20:16:44] <CIA-37> * added setting of errno to wctrans() and towctrans()[20:16:44] <CIA-37> * added tests for towctrans() and wctrans() to locale_test[20:16:49] *** Ola has joined #haiku[20:17:11] *** Ola is now known as OlaHughson[20:17:34] *** curlyman has joined #haiku[20:19:18] <CIA-37> humdinger * r37668 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/overlayimage/OverlayView.cpp: The OverlayImage window now gets activated after a drop of an image. Saves another click before being able to drag the Replicant handle.[20:20:48] *** humdinger has joined #haiku[20:22:22] *** kmargar has joined #haiku[20:24:09] *** AlexFera has joined #haiku[20:26:01] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[20:26:07] *** markos_ has quit IRC[20:26:49] <phoudoin> bye guys, time to go home...[20:27:00] *** phoudoin has left #haiku[20:28:44] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[20:29:43] <lorglas> hi[20:29:54] <humdinger> hello lorglas[20:30:05] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[20:31:07] <lorglas> humdinger: hast du c oder c++ Erfahrung?[20:31:18] <humdinger> minimal... :)[20:33:14] <lorglas> ich hab ein char mit 0677 und wollt die letzten 3 stellen unwandel in rwxrwxrwx, hast du eine idee wie man die 6 zum beispiel aus dem char bekommt, in yab gibt es mid$[20:34:06] <humdinger> pffft... keine Ahnung... :)[20:34:15] <humdinger> Ich würd auch nur rum googlen...[20:34:20] <lorglas> ok[20:34:24] <lorglas> danke[20:35:30] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[20:35:45] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[20:36:00] <humdinger> kannst Du nicht mit einer for-Schleife durch alle Stellen gehen unf die mit div. Zahlen vergleichen und dann entsprechend rwx in einen String schreiben?[20:36:57] <lorglas> das versuche ich derzeit[20:38:11] *** dancxjo has joined #haiku[20:39:47] <humdinger> hi mmadia![20:41:15] <mmadia> hi humdinger, all.[20:41:35] <humdinger> mmadia: Am I correct here: http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/bcm43xx_wireless_support[20:41:49] <mmadia> i've looked at install-wifi-firmwares.sh from r1alpha2 and i think it should work as expected.[20:42:43] <humdinger> Do you think we should add to execute the install-script once the zip was unpacked to /boot in the note at http://www.haiku-os.org/guides/daily-tasks/wireless#firmware-offline ?[20:43:05] <mmadia> yes, sounds good.[20:43:43] <Duggan> erm is there a document some place about using sqlite in haiku?[20:43:45] <humdinger> Should I?[20:43:57] *** brobostigon has quit IRC[20:44:00] <dancxjo> yo yo yo, room[20:44:11] <Duggan> hi dancxjo[20:44:13] <humdinger> hullo dancxjo[20:44:13] <mmadia> if you could. your last reply in that thread is accurate.[20:44:19] <PulkoMandy> Duggan: well... it should just work like anywhere else ?[20:44:21] <humdinger> thanks mmadia[20:45:09] <Duggan> PulkoMandy I don't include any files? I don't link against anything?[20:47:38] <Duggan> ok, sqlite3.h.... got that...[20:48:53] <Duggan> do I need to link against anything?[20:49:19] <humdinger> cyall[20:49:24] *** humdinger has quit IRC[20:50:26] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[20:54:22] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[20:54:36] <PulkoMandy> oh... no idea, I use it in perl scripts :)[20:57:51] *** VinDuv_ has joined #haiku[20:57:51] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[21:01:13] *** cpr420 has quit IRC[21:01:55] *** elliottcable has quit IRC[21:02:35] *** elliottcable has joined #haiku[21:03:50] *** cpr420 has joined #haiku[21:04:08] *** handheldcar2 has joined #haiku[21:06:23] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[21:06:23] *** VinDuv_ has quit IRC[21:08:04] *** dancxjo has quit IRC[21:17:49] *** VinDuv_ has joined #haiku[21:17:49] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[21:21:44] *** Ingenu has joined #haiku[21:22:28] *** dancxjo has joined #haiku[21:24:25] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[21:29:33] <RQ> dancxjo hi![21:29:43] <dancxjo> sup, rq?[21:30:09] <RQ> I'm fine. Got Pootle 2.1 set up with help from Xeon3D[21:30:27] <dancxjo> sweet![21:30:41] <RQ> yeah, doesn't quite work yet though[21:30:48] <dancxjo> any luck on catkeys? Is it the fingerprinting that's giving y'all nightmares?[21:30:56] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[21:31:17] <RQ> yeah, some luck, I guess[21:31:32] *** kitallis has joined #haiku[21:31:38] *** Megaf_ has joined #haiku[21:31:45] <RQ> like I said, I managed to translate a preflet using 2.0[21:32:05] <RQ> though I haven't tested the result and the header line was broken[21:32:32] <RQ> anyway, the header stuff is now supposedly fixed, and I'm having other problems with 2.1[21:32:58] <dancxjo> Ugh[21:33:07] <RQ> anyway, I've been using HTA too[21:33:09] <RQ> it's nice :)[21:33:22] <RQ> though I have a couple of feedback items for you[21:34:27] <RQ> are you interested?[21:35:20] <dancxjo> Sure...(but don't expect me to change much...I'm holding out for Pootle)[21:35:51] *** helf has quit IRC[21:36:09] <RQ> dancxjo for one, I think non-translated obsolete strings should be hidden[21:36:38] <PulkoMandy> if pootle breaks everything at each upgrade, it's no fun :p[21:36:56] <RQ> Pulkomandy said they're there for reference, but there's no point in having empty reference strings :)[21:37:18] <RQ> PulkoMandy: that's why I'm trying to push catkeys support upstream[21:37:23] <RQ> so that it's harder to break :P[21:37:49] <Duggan> so if I want to retrieve the full path and name of a file, do I call a BEntry's GetName(), GetPath(), or both?[21:38:00] *** danielpereira has joined #haiku[21:39:18] <dancxjo> Ok...what's next, rq?[21:39:52] <cpr420> Duggan: do you have the bebook installed? It covers this[21:40:04] <RQ> dancxjo the logo on the top should point to the home page :)[21:40:08] <Duggan> yes I do and it doesn't seem to cover it very well :/[21:40:34] <cpr420> It spells it out pretty clearly on the page I'm looking at[21:40:37] <Duggan> whats a leaf name?[21:40:43] <Duggan> and does a path include the filename?[21:41:08] <Duggan> I'm looking at the BEntry page, what are you looking at?[21:41:35] <PulkoMandy> there are two pages for each class, one with api reference and the other with a more general overview[21:41:39] <PulkoMandy> look at both :)[21:43:12] *** god__ has joined #haiku[21:43:49] <dancxjo> next, rq?[21:44:05] <Duggan> ok thanks cpr420, PulkoMandy[21:46:01] *** leszek has quit IRC[21:46:14] *** kmargar is now known as markos_[21:46:47] <RQ> dancxjo: when a logged in user edits a translation, it shouldn't be marked with a questionmark[21:46:58] *** god__ has quit IRC[21:47:08] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[21:47:27] *** danielpereira has quit IRC[21:47:29] <dancxjo> On that, I must disagree. An approver must approve it[21:47:36] <dancxjo> (Which is what I'm working on now)[21:47:38] *** VinDuv_ has quit IRC[21:48:06] <dancxjo> Let's say someone like me (who doesn't speak Lithuanian) comes and badly translates something. It should always be reviewed by you[21:48:36] <RQ> dancxjo currently I'm my own approver[21:48:44] <RQ> so it doesn't work, but just annoys me[21:49:01] <RQ> I can rephrase it: when an approver edits a string, it shouldn't be marked with the questionmark[21:49:23] *** lorglas has quit IRC[21:49:38] <dancxjo> But your not an approver. :)[21:50:04] <dancxjo> (I'm working on the system right now.) The idea behind that was that even if you are competant, your work should be proofread by someone else[21:51:33] <dancxjo> Like, for instance, I just typed "your" for "you're"[21:51:49] *** dru345 has joined #haiku[21:52:41] <gluon> dancxjo: are you travis?[21:53:22] <Cloud_> Is installing from the standard liveCD on virtualPC considered a supported installation method or should I refrain from opening a bug in this setting ?[21:54:07] <PulkoMandy> Cloud_: it's simpler to use the existing images... but still it should work[21:54:33] *** helf has joined #haiku[21:54:47] <Cloud_> But is this installation method officially supported ? I just wanna know if I should open an entry on the bugtracker or not[21:54:55] <dancxjo> gluon: yup[21:55:05] <Duggan> hey dru345[21:55:12] <PulkoMandy> well, installing from the live cd is quite the standard installation method :)[21:55:59] <Cloud_> Even though Haiku provide a specific installation method for virtualisation ? Alright then, thanks[21:56:54] *** elliottcable has quit IRC[21:56:55] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[21:57:32] <RQ> dancxjo: well if that will work, it's a different story. But like I said, at least right now it's just annoying[21:58:08] <RQ> Oh by the way, those old strings should also not be editable, cause it's misleading[21:58:18] <RQ> s/old/obsolete/[21:59:43] <dancxjo> I left them there because a lot of times they will only change by a character. You're right though.[22:00:07] <PulkoMandy> what about matching them to the new one when possible ?[22:00:19] <PulkoMandy> I'm sure there is a "string distance" function in php for that[22:01:13] <dru345> hi PulkoMandy, Duggan[22:01:18] <RQ> I mean they can stay in the interface. Of course it would be best if they were somewhere close to the new string. However, there should be no textfield for them, cause they're obsolete[22:03:40] *** elliottcable has joined #haiku[22:03:47] *** oco has joined #haiku[22:04:59] *** Hubert_ has joined #haiku[22:05:08] *** nitrofurano has joined #haiku[22:05:49] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[22:08:34] <CIA-37> zooey * r37669 /haiku/trunk/headers/posix/wchar.h:[22:08:34] <CIA-37> Fix that should have been part of r31927:[22:08:34] <CIA-37> * uncommented fwscanf() in wchar.h to make it available[22:08:34] <CIA-37> As a result, the next build of gcc4 should be able to detect full support for wchar_t and in turn activate wchar_t-based template types (like std::wstring).[22:09:36] *** VinDuv_ has joined #haiku[22:09:39] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[22:11:37] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[22:12:40] <Shisui> <PulkoMandy> I'm sure there is a "string distance" function in php for that <-- levenshtein distance, yes[22:12:45] <RQ> dancxjo so, can you mark me as reviewer for lt?[22:12:48] <Shisui> with a good complexity :)[22:13:02] <PulkoMandy> Shisui: ah ! I was sure I'd spell it wrong too :)[22:16:23] <dancxjo> I'll try[22:16:23] <dancxjo> Not right now. I'm trying to get it working at all. :([22:16:23] <dancxjo> Ugh![22:20:33] *** Hubert_ has quit IRC[22:20:53] *** VinDuv_ has quit IRC[22:21:49] <dancxjo> rq: Ok...let's see if this works[22:22:01] <mmu_screen> anyone on debian with BFS partitions around ?[22:22:06] <mmu_screen> (or ubuntu)[22:22:32] <luroh> mmu_screen: yes[22:23:26] <mmu_screen> I wrote scripts for os-prober to autodetect BFS partitions to add them to grub menu[22:23:32] <mmu_screen> wget http://revolf.free.fr/beos/60beos http://revolf.free.fr/beos/60haiku ; sudo mv 60beos 60haiku /usr/lib/os-probes/mounted/ ; sudo update-grub2[22:23:49] *** veve-mao has joined #haiku[22:24:30] <luroh> sounds dangerous :)[22:24:45] <luroh> i'll have a look[22:24:53] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[22:26:51] <mmu_screen> live dangerously :p[22:27:16] *** raichoo has quit IRC[22:28:03] <PulkoMandy> mmu_screen: now upstream them :)[22:28:55] <luroh> yes please, along with bfs_fuse :)[22:29:14] <RQ> dancxjo so, does it work?[22:33:53] *** Sir_Konrad has joined #haiku[22:34:43] <luroh> mmu_screen: nothing happened, my previous Haiku entry was left untouched[22:34:46] <mmu_screen> the only thing is I'm not sure the installer actually mounts them[22:35:00] <mmu_screen> hmm maybe you have to chmod +x them ?[22:35:18] <luroh> good idea, checking...[22:35:23] <mmu_screen> oh, wait, you must have the partition mounted in linux[22:35:28] <mmu_screen> as it checks the content[22:35:57] <luroh> oh[22:37:46] <RQ> hm, and I thought grub checks at boot time...[22:37:59] * ali3n0 found another unix contamination: kill[22:38:10] <ali3n0> and I like it[22:40:47] <luroh> mmu_screen: still nothing...but i *did* have an entry 'Haiku' there before, if that matters[22:41:14] <RQ> hm[22:41:47] <RQ> does Haiku have access keys for buttons?[22:42:11] <RQ> or to get to the menu, for example?[22:42:13] <luroh> chmodding +x and retrying...[22:43:43] <luroh> no difference[22:44:30] *** Meanwhile has quit IRC[22:46:54] *** michaelvo has joined #haiku[22:47:34] *** Anarchos has joined #haiku[22:47:59] <mmu_screen> luroh: no it should add them anyway[22:48:05] <Ingenu> RQ, yes[22:48:10] <mmu_screen> can you try sudo os-prober ?[22:48:14] <Ingenu> I don't think there's one to go to the menu[22:48:16] <luroh> mmu_screen: ok[22:48:17] <mmu_screen> it should spit a line with it[22:48:19] <Ingenu> such as 'windows" does on Widnows[22:49:03] <luroh> mmu_screen: nothing at all[22:49:53] <luroh> the scripts are +x, the haiku partition is mounted using bfs_fuse[22:50:08] <RQ> Ingenu to get to the Haiku menu like in Windows, you press Menu button here[22:50:15] <RQ> I was talking about app menu[22:50:22] <RQ> which is activated by Alt in windows[22:50:23] <Ingenu> ah ?[22:50:31] <Ingenu> must be remembering BeOS then[22:50:40] <Ingenu> same for Haiku[22:50:44] <Ingenu> or it's the Mac way[22:50:46] <Ingenu> so Ctrl[22:50:56] <Ingenu> but you can switch that in the preferences[22:50:59] <RQ> no, I switched to PC-style[22:51:00] <Ingenu> keymap[22:51:21] <RQ> though neither Alt+S, nor Ctrl+S open the Server menu for me[22:51:40] <Ingenu> does alt at least move you in the menu bar ?[22:51:43] <Ingenu> (or ctrl)[22:52:06] <PulkoMandy> Alt+S is for file>save likely[22:52:36] <mmu_screen> luroh: odd[22:52:51] <mmu_screen> oh wait, bfs_fuse...[22:53:03] <mmu_screen> it's not accounted for[22:53:12] <mmu_screen> it supposes befs[22:53:17] <mmu_screen> since it doesn't need write access[22:53:23] <luroh> ok, i can try that[22:53:25] <mmu_screen> and of course it checks for the fs type[22:53:49] <luroh> yeah, just noticed looking at the scripts[22:54:22] *** Cloud_ has quit IRC[22:54:56] <mmu_screen> this whole os-prober is a hack...[22:55:14] <RQ> dancxjo ping[22:55:29] <RQ> dancxjo, have you approved me for lt?[22:57:40] <luroh> mmu_screen: bingo, that worked[22:58:13] *** knut_ has quit IRC[22:58:32] <RQ> PulkoMandy Ctrl+S is for File->Save for me :P[22:58:46] <mmu_screen> :)[22:58:54] <RQ> though there's no such entry in Vision[22:59:07] <mmu_screen> bleh, ctrl-s is a tty signal[22:59:15] <mmu_screen> alt-s is for saving :p[23:00:15] *** knut_ has joined #haiku[23:00:31] <RQ> mmu_screen, well, since I get to choose between two cases of X broken and Y working, I chose X to be the terminal and Y the GUI :)[23:00:55] <RQ> (in terms of keyboard shortcuts, that is)[23:01:15] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:01:54] <RQ> by the way, I really like the "Application" (Icon) menu in Vision. I think Haiku should promote it in its HIG[23:02:05] <dancxjo> rq, sorry, my boss called me[23:02:20] <RQ> but you're back now?[23:02:35] <dancxjo> i'm still figuring out how to access session data from ajax...bleh![23:02:36] <ali3n0> night everybody[23:02:48] <ali3n0> Iquit &[23:02:54] <dancxjo> I don't think there is[23:02:56] *** ali3n0 has quit IRC[23:03:06] <RQ> eh?[23:03:57] *** knut_ has quit IRC[23:04:49] <PulkoMandy> RQ: I use a small font and the icon doesn't scale well, it makes everything look ugly for me[23:04:56] *** knut_ has joined #haiku[23:05:02] <PulkoMandy> (big menu with blank space below the text)[23:05:16] <PulkoMandy> well, we have vector icons, sure, but then it would be too small :)[23:08:45] <RQ> hm, good for you[23:09:21] <RQ> I guess you can fit lots of text into screen[23:09:24] <RQ> with that small foint[23:09:30] <RQ> I like the default one though[23:09:32] *** Barrett has quit IRC[23:09:50] <PulkoMandy> I like small fonts yes[23:10:15] *** oZ] has quit IRC[23:10:22] <RQ> good point about that. Though I think the icon could be bigger than the menu in that case, like in Office 2010[23:11:14] <PulkoMandy> mh[23:11:16] <RQ> and I don't think it would hurt compatibility with R5 since it would just be a new feature[23:11:22] <PulkoMandy> not so fan of windows ui these days[23:12:03] <mmu_screen> yeah that's ugly[23:12:10] <PulkoMandy> depends on how it's done... we can't modify the existing BMenu API[23:12:14] <RQ> i know you're all fans of BeOS here :)[23:12:56] <RQ> but you know, looking around and copying some new features isn't a sin :)[23:13:02] *** The123king has quit IRC[23:13:17] <RQ> PulkoMandy you can't even extend it?[23:13:35] <PulkoMandy> you can in some ways, but not as freely as that[23:13:42] <PulkoMandy> or else you break binary compatibility[23:13:46] <mmadia> the ABI is a very sensitive beast.[23:13:51] <RQ> i see[23:14:21] <RQ> ok, time to sleep here :)[23:14:26] <PulkoMandy> I don't know much more about it, since I work on the locale kit that didn't exist in R5, and I don't have to handle that[23:14:27] <RQ> good night/afternoon/whatever[23:14:31] <PulkoMandy> 'night :)[23:14:36] <RQ> :)[23:14:43] <RQ> watch my cool quit msg :D[23:14:44] *** RQ has quit IRC[23:15:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o PulkoMandy[23:16:07] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:19:06] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[23:27:12] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[23:28:02] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC[23:28:03] <dancxjo> ok, rq...we're ready to go[23:31:59] <dancxjo> hullo?[23:32:03] <dancxjo> Is anybody out there?[23:34:17] <mmadia> just nod if you can hear me.[23:34:22] <mmadia> is there anyone home?[23:35:33] <dancxjo> :)[23:36:06] <dancxjo> Now only language managers can approve strings...except I don't know who's a language manager.[23:36:53] <mmadia> i can take some guesses, based on the Trac permissions.[23:37:34] *** toni has joined #haiku[23:40:06] <CIA-37> zooey * r37670 /haiku/trunk/ (78 files in 61 dirs):[23:40:06] <CIA-37> * applied patch by kaliber that fixes more than 100 warnings - thanks a lot![23:40:06] <CIA-37> Closes #6349[23:42:28] *** curlyman has quit IRC[23:51:36] *** AlexFera has quit IRC[23:52:56] <stpere> 3[23:53:01] <stpere> oops, sorry :)[23:55:37] *** AamirM has joined #haiku[23:57:18] *** marc_smith has left #haiku