May 6, 2009 
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May 6, 2009 [00:02:04] *** Colin_Finck has quit IRC[00:03:31] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[00:03:58] *** essiene has joined #haiku[00:04:51] *** szczur has joined #haiku[00:05:04] *** essiene_ has quit IRC[00:06:20] <BePhantom> what's the difference between MIT and BSD license?[00:06:59] <stpere> east vs west coast :P[00:07:37] <BePhantom> :D[00:08:05] <gordonjcp> mmadia: 32-bit[00:08:17] <gordonjcp> mmadia: I don't consider 64-bit to be worth the hassle, for the sort of stuff I'm doing[00:08:30] <gordonjcp> BePhantom: they're spelt differently[00:08:39] *** sugar3 has joined #haiku[00:08:41] <mmadia> then what's the issue building x86-gcc2 ?[00:09:10] <BePhantom> one is ivy league and the other is not[00:09:12] <gordonjcp> mmadia: there isn't, I just need to figure out how to build my additional packages with it[00:09:19] <BePhantom> :P[00:09:25] <HeTo> BePhantom: MIT is more specific, there are several different versions of the BSD license, but MIT only refers to one[00:10:01] <BePhantom> HeTo, i see[00:10:18] <HeTo> or that's as far as I know[00:10:27] <gordonjcp> BePhantom: what *is* the ivy league, anyway?[00:10:37] <DeadYak> in theory it's a set of the US's top universities[00:10:41] <gordonjcp> actually, nm, I'll wikipedia[00:10:42] <DeadYak> and also hardest to get into[00:10:43] <BePhantom> yes[00:11:01] <DeadYak> however that's far from exhaustive and some people would say overrated in the case of some of their constituents[00:11:04] <gordonjcp> ah, it comes from the length of time the universities have been there[00:11:09] <DeadYak> indeed.[00:11:10] <BePhantom> most important and old universities in the US[00:11:13] <gordonjcp> I see what they did there ;-)[00:11:14] <DeadYak> they're mostly in the northeast as a consequence[00:11:15] <gordonjcp> pff[00:11:16] <gordonjcp> "old"[00:11:23] <gordonjcp> for suitable values of old, I suppse[00:12:36] <BePhantom> http://www.answers.com/topic/ivy-league[00:12:39] <gordonjcp> that's what, mid-18th century, except Harvard?[00:12:48] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[00:12:51] <BePhantom> i thought berkley was ivy league too[00:12:53] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[00:12:59] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC[00:13:51] <gordonjcp> harvard = mid-17th, yale = early 18th and the rest mid-18th except Cornell which is mid-19th[00:14:17] <gordonjcp> I have trees in my garden older than most of those ;-)[00:16:07] <BePhantom> :D[00:16:57] *** DBAlex has quit IRC[00:19:51] *** Paradoxon has quit IRC[00:20:13] <BePhantom> so lets start a senseless flaming war to heat up things a bit.... linux is good, haiku is evil... go[00:20:17] <gordonjcp> okay, so how would I use the cross-compiler on Linux to build my sqlite package?[00:20:17] <BePhantom> :D[00:21:31] *** essiene has quit IRC[00:21:38] <BePhantom> gordonjcp, are you a GSoC student?[00:22:25] <gordonjcp> no[00:22:28] <mmadia> gordonjcp : at this point, its boatloads easier to simply compile from within haiku.[00:22:36] <gordonjcp> mmadia: it's also painfully slow[00:22:48] <gordonjcp> unless I set up haiku as a bootable OS on this machine[00:23:06] <mmadia> :)[00:23:21] <gordonjcp> right, will haiku work okay with an NVidia 7300?[00:23:28] <gordonjcp> and SATA?[00:23:58] <BePhantom> yay, matthew media submitted a new article at haiku homepage, neat :) i like news[00:24:03] <mmadia> works great on my geforce 7300 gt[00:24:08] <mmadia> madia[00:24:21] <mmadia> i am not the media :P[00:24:22] <BePhantom> mmadia, i know :D[00:24:33] <gordonjcp> Hmmm, I can't repartition this drive...[00:24:42] <gordonjcp> can't boot from USB[00:24:49] <BePhantom> mmadia, thank for the news[00:24:54] <mmadia> what's the error when booting from USB?[00:25:00] <gordonjcp> mmadia: utter utter fail[00:25:24] <gordonjcp> mmadia: death, destruction, devastation and on one memorable occasion, a completely fucked CMOS[00:25:40] <mmadia> sure thing BePhantom : there's going to be about 12 or so interviews[00:25:59] <BePhantom> mmadia, i hope you'll provide us with the links to the articles :)[00:26:17] <gordonjcp> mmadia: as in, factory reset jumper time[00:26:34] <mmadia> yeah,, so far i'm being a bit lazy with that.. not sure if i want to add to the article or create a page somewhere[00:26:37] <gordonjcp> this motherboard it total shite[00:26:41] <gordonjcp> *is[00:27:11] *** malmis3 has joined #Haiku[00:28:50] <szczur> hi[00:29:10] <szczur> i'm new here and i have a question[00:29:27] <szczur> i managed to install Haiku on real hardware from raw image[00:29:51] <szczur> but how can i do the same on VBOX?[00:30:00] <gordonjcp> VBOX?[00:30:10] <szczur> yeah[00:30:35] <gordonjcp> digital TV set-top box?[00:30:42] <szczur> VirtualBox 2.2.0[00:30:51] <mmadia> iirc, you need to use the vmware image. supposedly newer versions of VirtualBox support VMDK[00:31:08] <mmadia> this might have some information about the necessary settings : http://www.haiku-os.org/node/2463[00:31:22] *** Malmis has quit IRC[00:31:33] <HeTo> vbox also ships with an app to convert raw images to their image format[00:31:56] <szczur> ohh thanks for fast reply[00:31:56] <mmadia> though, VirtualBox isn't the best virtualization software for Haiku.[00:32:09] <szczur> anyway, this system is pretty fast[00:32:32] <szczur> on Athlon 1GHz his boottime is around 12sec[00:32:56] <szczur> that's DAMN fast[00:33:07] <gordonjcp> szczur: yeah, I'm getting about that boot time on a Celeron-M 1400[00:36:06] <sugar3> szczur: Ja uruchamiam Haiku na VirtualBoxie, działa, wystarczy skorzystać z obrazu VMware[00:36:46] <szczur> i'll test it[00:36:50] <szczur> great system[00:42:50] *** luroh has quit IRC[00:43:17] <BePhantom> ha, someone is looking for support for an illegal downloaded version of zeta on haiku homepage, now i've seen it all :D[00:44:56] <HeTo> is there a legal version of zeta? :-P[00:45:30] <BePhantom> good point :D[00:47:59] *** malmis3 is now known as Malmis[00:50:42] <aljen> HeTo, was zeta even legal ? :P[00:51:18] <mmadia> does it matter at this point? :)[00:51:29] <aljen> argh, s/even/once/ im sleeping :([00:51:29] * BePhantom tries to understand umccullough's "Some goings-ons" article[00:51:33] <aljen> mmadia, nope :D[00:51:39] <thotypous> hi[00:51:45] <aljen> hi thotypous[00:52:23] <BePhantom> hola thotypous[00:52:40] <thotypous> are the GSoC guys among us (in the channel)? besides pulkomandy[00:53:06] <mmadia> none at the moment.[00:57:13] <AlienSoldier> they must be doing the visit of the basement of pain[00:57:57] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[00:58:38] <BePhantom> they must be doing the dishes and laundry for their mentors[01:01:01] <BePhantom> my feet are freezing[01:05:55] <stpere> I imagine BePhantom with both feet in snow[01:06:01] <stpere> kekeke, your turn now :)[01:08:23] <BePhantom> no, it doesnt snow in my city[01:08:42] <stpere> aw[01:09:34] <BePhantom> but it will, eventually... global warming you know :P[01:10:57] *** Elledan has joined #haiku[01:11:09] *** Maya-sama has quit IRC[01:15:55] *** stpere has quit IRC[01:15:58] *** stpere has joined #haiku[01:16:33] *** Gaap has quit IRC[01:16:35] *** rennj-haiku has quit IRC[01:28:41] *** hackkitten has quit IRC[01:28:51] *** hackkitten has joined #haiku[01:29:38] <stpere> I'm looking for an occasion to smoke that cigar at 16$[01:29:48] <stpere> like a release :)[01:30:06] *** Sikosis has joined #haiku[01:30:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Sikosis[01:30:20] <stpere> hey Sikosis[01:30:32] <pyCube> eek.. maybe i just havent had a good cigar, but i cant imagine the appeal[01:30:33] <stpere> I was wondering if you were a regular host of that podcast?[01:30:38] <Sikosis> hi stpere[01:30:45] *** adamk has quit IRC[01:30:49] <stpere> pyCube: I got it as a gift[01:30:57] <stpere> I wouldn't have paid that actual price[01:30:58] <pyCube> stpere, most peopel do.. heh[01:31:03] <stpere> :)[01:31:22] <pyCube> i mean, thats usually the case.. who buys cigars for themselves? heh[01:31:30] <stpere> ah yeah[01:31:35] <stpere> it's meant to be shared :)[01:31:53] <pyCube> i think its more like, "heh.. watch this.. i am gonna guilt my friend into smoking this nasty thing.."[01:33:39] <stpere> :)[01:35:44] *** Disreali has quit IRC[01:36:00] *** sugar3 has quit IRC[01:38:10] *** aljen_ has joined #haiku[01:39:02] *** aljen has quit IRC[01:39:05] *** aljen_ is now known as aljen[01:39:19] *** redblue has quit IRC[01:40:10] <pyCube> i wish people would hand out joints instead...much more 'brotherly love" than a stinking cigar :-p[01:41:40] <mmadia> stpere : wouldn't the number of the podcast be indicative? :P[01:41:46] <armchair> yeah, joints don't stink[01:42:38] <stpere> mmadia: I meant, is the last one an exception or are you usually the host? :)[01:44:15] <stpere> armchair: of course not[01:44:18] <stpere> they smell[01:44:18] <geist> stpere: smoke it, it wont get better[01:44:19] <stpere> :P[01:44:42] <stpere> geist: yeah, that's what I suspect[01:44:57] <geist> well, they will, but i think it's only if you store it properly[01:45:32] *** TheNerd_LT has joined #haiku[01:54:29] *** TheNerd_WK has joined #haiku[01:57:21] *** TheNerd_LT has quit IRC[01:57:27] *** TheNerd_WK is now known as TheNerd[02:01:39] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[02:01:45] *** redblue has joined #haiku[02:06:06][02:06:25] <tehdwarf> :D[02:07:35] <aljen> was he happy ? :D[02:08:24] <BePhantom> it's all over the news haha http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30561605/[02:09:42] <BePhantom> so the question is... was it used?[02:09:50] <stpere> heh[02:10:23] <stpere> somebody got to test those at the plant..[02:10:56] *** oco has quit IRC[02:17:51] *** TheNerd_LT has joined #haiku[02:18:28] <BePhantom> The Onion cracks me up[02:18:40] *** TheNerd has quit IRC[02:18:46] *** TheNerd_LT is now known as TheNerd[02:20:30] <BePhantom> "New Video Game Technology Finally Allows Rendering Of Smaller Breasts"[02:20:34] <BePhantom> :D[02:21:21] *** szczur has quit IRC[02:23:46] <BePhantom> does anyone here read The Onion?[02:24:31] <gordonjcp> I used to[02:27:56] <BePhantom> it's great :D[02:29:17] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[02:35:04] <gordonjcp> how can I debug booting Haiku?[02:35:26] <gordonjcp> I've built an image from source, it boots with qemu, but it won't boot directly[02:35:54] <gordonjcp> grub etc is set up correctly, and I get as far as the Haiku logo and the row of startup icons, but then I just get a black screen[02:35:55] <mmadia> smash the space bar before the boot screen appears.[02:36:04] <mmadia> from there, you can choose on screen debugging.[02:36:08] <mmadia> morning pfoetchen.[02:36:52] <gordonjcp> mmadia: fail-safe video mode?[02:37:12] <mmadia> no...[02:37:12] <pfoetchen> morning mmadia (even if it's more night than morning here ;))[02:37:24] <mmadia> what is it, 3am or so?[02:37:28] <gordonjcp> no, safe mode options[02:37:45] <pfoetchen> yep 3am[02:38:08] *** CodeMonke has joined #haiku[02:38:31] <gordonjcp> right, re-rebooting[02:40:11] *** knottnhupfer has joined #haiku[02:42:19] <gordonjcp> okay, that doesn't work[02:42:36] <gordonjcp> mmadia: the last thing that happens is it blanks the screen, so I can't tell what actually happens[02:42:52] <gordonjcp> what else can I try?[02:44:06] <mmadia> googling the mailing list archives?[02:44:19] <gordonjcp> googled, not really found anything helpful[02:45:26] <gordonjcp> I don't really know what I'm googling for, "black screen after boot" doesn't seem to be it[02:46:43] <gordonjcp> I think I'll scrap this Sempron 3400 and NVidia 7300[02:46:47] <mmadia> unfortunately, i'm tapped out.[02:46:58] <gordonjcp> neither of them seem to be much good for anything, really[02:47:03] <mmadia> trying the other boot options would help.[02:47:31] <gordonjcp> mmadia: tried a couple of them[02:47:54] <gordonjcp> well, it's nearly 2am and I need to work out where I put my Duron 2800[02:48:22] <gordonjcp> think I'll leave it all to the morning[02:49:57] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[02:50:03] *** TheNerd has quit IRC[02:55:31] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[03:01:13] *** BePhantom has quit IRC[03:03:08] <JonathanThompson> Here's the sort of headline I would have never anticipated reading: "GM plans 1-for-100 reverse stock split"[03:04:54] *** BePhantom has joined #haiku[03:05:41] <pyCube> i never anticipate caring enough to be bothered by not understand what that means[03:05:48] <pyCube> understanding[03:08:55] <JonathanThompson> Reading the details, apparently all the stock issued as a result of the government being involved and owning such stock would make each current stock (and the new ones) worth 1/100th of current stock prices: or about 1.8 cents each.[03:09:14] <tehdwarf> that is... cheap stock[03:09:20] * tehdwarf buys up a controlling interest in GM[03:09:49] <JonathanThompson> Never expected GM to become a penny stock, having grown up in their HQ stomping grounds and having family, neighbors and friends employed by them.[03:10:02] <JonathanThompson> That should be what, about $100? ;)[03:10:18] <tehdwarf> employed by ME you mean?[03:10:39] <tehdwarf> :D[03:11:18] * JonathanThompson has never worked for GM or subsidiaries or suppliers[03:12:04] <JonathanThompson> At least, not to the best of my knowledge ;)[03:12:37] <JonathanThompson> I'd be more likely to have had GM have purchased some of the tools that were made by a company I worked for, but I don't even think that's the case, either.[03:12:47] *** M199 has joined #haiku[03:21:59] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[03:23:01] *** Master199 has quit IRC[03:30:18] *** CodeMonke has quit IRC[03:51:25] *** mmu_laptop has quit IRC[03:58:31] *** Sikosis has quit IRC[04:00:59] <CIA-15> mmlr * r30641 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/usb/Hub.cpp:[04:00:59] <CIA-15> When doing removal notifications for USB devices, report the hub after the[04:00:59] <CIA-15> children. Otherwise a driver that builds up a device hierarchy could run into[04:00:59] <CIA-15> trouble when the parent hub is removed before its child devices. Not that there[04:00:59] <CIA-15> were any drivers that do so, but it just seems more correct.[04:27:12] *** mmadia has quit IRC[04:28:24] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[04:56:02] *** xRaich[o]2x has quit IRC[04:59:07] *** aljen has quit IRC[05:06:34] *** pgr2 has joined #haiku[05:10:21] *** paul0 has quit IRC[05:15:29] *** AlexForster has quit IRC[05:15:37] *** Bumphead has quit IRC[05:16:51] *** Bumphead has joined #haiku[05:17:00] *** bbjimmy has joined #haiku[05:22:06] <BePhantom> is haiku R2 going to have a new ui?[05:24:00] *** pgr has quit IRC[05:25:21] <mmadia> more than likely.[05:25:55] <BePhantom> are there any ideas on how it's going to look like?[05:26:04] <BePhantom> like are you dropping the tabs?[05:26:21] <mmadia> you'll need to look for some glass elevator stuff.[05:26:52] <BePhantom> what's that?[05:27:08] <mmadia> it's a discussion list for ideas that'll happen post-R1[05:27:42] *** thotypous has quit IRC[05:27:51] <BePhantom> R2 will drop BeOS ui legacy right?[05:27:54] <mmadia> there's also a few forum posts on the website.[05:28:17] <mmadia> i'm not 100% sure.[05:28:19] <mmadia> but[05:28:30] <mmadia> once R1 is out the door, many good things can occur.[05:28:42] <BePhantom> awesome, imo i hope it does[05:28:48] <mmadia> mainly our API can be drastically improved and redesigned[05:29:17] <mmadia> as at that point, binary compatibility with BeOS R5 can either be dropped or provided through a separate set of compatibility libs.[05:30:00] <BePhantom> haiku needs its own look[05:30:16] <mmadia> i personally enjoy the tabs.[05:30:36] <mmadia> it keeps the wasted screen space to a minimum.[05:30:59] <mmadia> and screen space is a lot like beer storage... there's never enough :D[05:31:23] <BePhantom> hehe, but you have multiple workspaces[05:31:39] <BePhantom> it helps to keep things organized[05:32:25] <mmadia> i find that tabs helps to keep things organized... even more so when the auckland's stack and tile gets incorporated.[05:39:20] <mmadia> have you seen the Stack & Tile patches from the university of auckland ?[05:39:33] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[05:41:00] <BePhantom> i think i did[05:41:39] <BePhantom> why hasnt it been incorporated?[05:42:02] <BePhantom> i think i read something about it last year[05:46:25] <mmadia> not yet.. in fact i just dropped one of their people an email asking about it.[05:46:38] <mmadia> but it's an excellent dispaly of using tabs effectively.[05:54:30] *** Elledan is now known as Maya-sama[05:54:46] *** Hugen_ has joined #haiku[05:54:56] <Hugen_> hi[05:59:33] *** HaiColon has joined #haiku[06:02:58] * mmadia waves[06:05:55] <HaiColon> damn, haiku crashed my harddrive ^^ Does anyone know by any chance if and how I can change the cylinder count of a harddrive? fdisk -l says now it has 32 but it should be 60801. I can still see all files with testdisk if I change the geometry to 60801 cylinders[06:08:16] *** Hugen_ has quit IRC[06:09:21] <tehdwarf> I would say you probably have to reformat[06:11:26] <mmadia> ask the Google first :)[06:11:28] <HaiColon> I'm not really sure if that would help since gparted for example only sees 250 Mb of the 500 Gb harddrive because of the wrong cylinder count so I think it would only format 250 mb.[06:12:04] <HaiColon> I did and am still trying to but Google is... You know, he tells you about too much porn in between. "Here's how to recover your harddrive, but first... Japanese twins!"[06:12:04] <fcr> HaiColon: years ago it was possible to change the geometry with a low level format[06:13:28] <HaiColon> is a low level format using dd to copy a bunch of zeroes on there?[06:14:57] <fcr> HaiColon: that is not a low level format[06:18:18] <mmadia> that's wiping the disk or zeroing it out.[06:19:23] <HaiColon> Yeah I just googled it. There seems to be a low level format for my harddrive from maxtor, maxllf. I'm trying to find that right now[06:20:09] <HaiColon> hmm, needs to run from a floppy. I haven't had a floppy drive in my computers since 1997[06:20:26] <mmadia> HaiColon check http://ultimatebootcd.com[06:21:09] <mmadia> this article will even mention how to set it up as a bootable usb stick if that's your thing : http://www.haiku-os.org/node/2510/[06:21:22] <HaiColon> ah great thanks mmadie[06:21:39] *** megaf has quit IRC[06:21:59] <HaiColon> cdrom is fine, booting from usb stick messes with my harddisk boot order too much so I never do it[06:27:44] *** Fainto has quit IRC[06:32:11] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[06:38:30] <HaiColon> going to try it now, thanks again :)[06:38:33] *** HaiColon has quit IRC[06:44:45] *** BePhantom has quit IRC[06:57:40] *** anarchos has quit IRC[07:08:41] *** Paradoxon has joined #haiku[07:14:04] *** skar has joined #haiku[07:16:32] *** HaiColon has joined #haiku[07:17:47] <HaiColon> yay, don't ask me how but I managed to repair the disk without doing a low level format. It's now as if nothing ever happened. I think the MaxBlast tool did it (started it from Windows since the one on the Ultimate Boot CD crashed)[07:18:27] <fcr> mmm, strange, really strange[07:19:16] <HaiColon> yeah. or maybe fdisk did it after a reboot. I used fdisk to change the cylinder count to 60801 but it didn't stick. when I did fdisk -l it showed 32 cylinders again.[07:19:22] <pyCube__> heh, "hmm.. i dunnno about vim...the GUI is kinda crappy"[07:19:41] <aurynn> win7: It's kind of choppy.[07:20:07] <fcr> but Tcl is great![07:20:45] <HaiColon> Tcl is one of the two or three languages I never understood :) Tried about 32 now[07:22:10] <HaiColon> But aMSN is great and that's written in Tcl. Although they want to switch to Python last thing I heard.[07:22:25] <pyCube__> ever tried mu?[07:22:26] <pyCube__> heh[07:22:50] <fcr> HaiColon: the reason is that it's hard to write huge tcl scripts[07:23:18] <HaiColon> Mu? Is that a language? I did try Nu :)[07:24:20] <fcr> I love postscript[07:24:22] <pyCube__> yes, its a language.. just not a general use one[07:24:31] <HaiColon> fcr: Yeah I can only imagine. I only played around with some small examples[07:24:40] <pyCube__> http://www.tweakfilms.com/products/rv/hackers[07:26:51] <HaiColon> My personal favorites are Objective-C, Ruby and Java. At the moment I'm playing around with Vala, that's a C# syntax for writing C apps. A bit slower than C, still faster than C++. And because of Haiku I got back to C++ programming, only ever did that in school :)[07:30:07] <pyCube__> eek..you can keep yer java and ruby stuff.. obj-c is kinda fun, although i'd never have really bothered if i didnt have my interested piqued by obj-j[07:30:28] <HaiColon> I did try Obj-j too :)[07:30:48] <fcr> a friend recomended me erlang, have you tried it?[07:31:10] <pyCube__> i played with haskell for a while.. its kinda fun as well[07:31:16] <HaiColon> I only tried haskell recently[07:31:36] <HaiColon> But yeah, if you get into haskell you read everywhere that you should take a look at erlang instead :)[07:32:10] <HaiColon> I only tried haskell because this online guide that someone made is really cool: www.learnyouahaskell.com[07:32:12] <pyCube__> yeah, but thats always the case[07:33:08] <HaiColon> Of course. That's why I still love Java even when everyone on the planet hates it for stupid or good reasons :)[07:33:28] <pyCube__> hehe[07:33:34] <fcr> HaiColon: I hate java without any reason![07:34:18] <HaiColon> It was pretty bad a few years ago but nowadays you get near c++ levels of speed with Java and Swing is actually usable now, it got a lot faster.[07:35:04] <fcr> HaiColon: C++ is faster than it used to be years ago[07:35:43] <pyCube__> guess what...cpus are faster and have more ram at their disposal nowadays.. hehe[07:35:52] <fcr> at least gcc4 is faster than gcc2[07:35:55] <pyCube__> hence 'faster'[07:38:19] <HaiColon> Possibly, I really don't know much about C++. Doesn't seem to be that hard to get into though as I thought. I was able to hack these two apps together in about 5 hours each after skimming over a C++ book one evening: http://haicolon.wordpress.com/tweetility/ http://haicolon.wordpress.com/bevideobot/[07:38:40] *** Paradoxon has quit IRC[07:38:48] <HaiColon> There are like 5 million memory leaks in there though, I'm sure :)[07:42:04] *** MaggieMay has joined #haiku[07:43:09] <MaggieMay> #peace[07:43:56] <pyCube__> "oooOOOHH dirty maggie may.."[07:44:12] <MaggieMay> hello[07:44:23] <MaggieMay> clean pyCube[07:44:44] <pyCube__> never listened to the beatles, let it be?[07:44:56] <MaggieMay> one of my favorite songs[07:45:00] <MaggieMay> but who does[07:45:01] <pyCube__> :-)[07:45:31] <pyCube__> wait.. let it be, or maggie may?[07:45:38] <MaggieMay> both[07:45:40] <pyCube__> hehe[07:45:46] <MaggieMay> let it be maggie may[07:46:22] <MaggieMay> are you helping alot of people tonight[07:47:10] <MaggieMay> i guess not[07:47:16] <pyCube__> hehe.. http://www.imeem.com/jubbywooby/music/uDhZfutz/laibach-maggie-mae/[07:47:42] *** pgr2 has quit IRC[07:52:43] <MaggieMay> listening to imeem i felt like i was watching the history channel of the 3rd reicht[07:53:27] <pyCube__> Laibach is a funny band. they did a lot of stuff in that weird romantic german style[07:53:34] <MaggieMay> i guess[07:53:40] <MaggieMay> i felt like marching[07:53:43] <pyCube__> ..including the cover of let it be album[07:54:01] <pyCube__> whichis conceptually nothing less than odd[07:54:24] <MaggieMay> what is your nationallity[07:54:44] <pyCube__> united statesian[07:55:03] <MaggieMay> german[07:55:58] <pyCube__> i am of german heritage, and have spent a good deal of time there. where in germany are you?[07:56:46] *** redblue has quit IRC[07:57:33] <MaggieMay> no good deed goes unpunished[07:58:01] *** bbjimmy has quit IRC[07:59:25] *** mmadia has quit IRC[08:00:24] *** procton has quit IRC[08:00:26] *** szczur has joined #haiku[08:00:45] <szczur> hi[08:00:52] *** BePhantom has joined #haiku[08:01:08] *** redblue has joined #haiku[08:03:59] <MaggieMay> hi szczur[08:09:20] <szczur> anyone who told me yesterday that VirtualBox sucks for Haiku has right[08:09:28] <szczur> it's waaay too slow[08:09:36] <szczur> and i din't know why[08:10:07] *** MaggieMay has quit IRC[08:11:35] <fcr> szczur: I use qemu and works fine in it[08:11:38] <HaiColon> The funny thing is, in Virtualbox I get 40 fps more in GLTeapot then when using VMware, but Haiku in general does feel faster in VMware.[08:14:01] *** subsidiarity has joined #haiku[08:15:28] *** subsidiarity has quit IRC[08:20:20] *** HaiColon has quit IRC[08:22:53] *** szczur has quit IRC[08:27:10] <skar> hi[08:28:05] <skar> i believe vmware is more speedy[08:35:29] *** Rakhun has quit IRC[08:41:54] *** sprma has joined #haiku[08:48:47] *** wildur has quit IRC[09:10:33] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[09:19:00] *** expensivelesbian has joined #haiku[09:23:19] *** iMax_pp has joined #haiku[09:35:06] *** pyCube__ has quit IRC[09:37:38] <BePhantom> arguing with linux users about how much it sucks for desktop is like arguing with a wall :D[09:38:01] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[09:39:23] *** prOSy has joined #haiku[09:39:29] <prOSy> hi[09:40:44] *** skar has left #haiku[09:41:36] <BePhantom> and im stupid for trying to convince them :D[09:41:50] <iMax_pp> BePhantom: Do you insinuate that Linux users are confined? Yes indeed![09:42:02] <iMax_pp> BePhantom: They are. ;)[09:43:27] <BePhantom> i'll leave a postit note saying "dont argue with linux fanboys about desktop" so i remember[09:44:06] *** hdanak has left #haiku[09:44:47] <iMax_pp> Linux isn't a bad OS. But arguing with linux fanboys is like arguing with apple fanboys. ^^[09:45:26] <BePhantom> true :D[09:45:41] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[09:46:00] <BePhantom> but only those who tried BeOS really knows how much better a desktop pc can be[09:46:19] <iMax_pp> How much lighter![09:46:25] <BePhantom> and haiku in the future of course :)[09:46:35] <fcr> BePhantom: Remember that NOT everyone that does not agree with you is a fanboy..., and that will be a better postit[09:48:04] <BePhantom> fcr, yes or course[09:48:06] <BePhantom> of*[09:48:38] <fcr> There are good desktop environments in linux if you only need to do things like web browsing or work with documents and such[09:49:02] <BePhantom> i smell flaming war coming up :D[09:49:12] * hackkitten turns up the flames~[09:49:23] <fcr> saying that it sucks is just a provocation, and nothing more than flames will start[09:49:55] <fcr> BePhantom: so be inteligent, and avoid saying things like those[09:57:00] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[10:10:18] *** BePhantom has quit IRC[10:12:46] *** sprma has quit IRC[10:33:27] *** aldeck has joined #Haiku[10:33:42] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[10:33:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[10:34:20] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[10:56:03] <Teknomancer> morning[11:00:47] *** HaiColon has joined #haiku[11:13:10] <gordonjcp> morning[11:14:08] <gordonjcp> fcr: what othe desktops do you recommend?[11:14:15] * gordonjcp has only really used Linux[11:16:42] <Ingenu> I used BeOS, little freeBSD and Windows[11:16:51] <Ingenu> I prefer Windows ^^[11:16:54] <Ingenu> (NT)[11:18:02] <iMax_pp> I use OSX, Windows 7, Haiku, Archlinux (with Openbox as Window Manager).[11:18:21] <iMax_pp> And I don't have any favorite one.[11:18:30] <gordonjcp> didn't like OSX, haven't tried Windows, used BeOS in about r5 days a little[11:18:59] <iMax_pp> They all have qualities and defedts.[11:19:14] <iMax_pp> s/defedts/defects[11:20:50] <gordonjcp> I'm keen to see if Haiku (by extension from BeOS) is as good for audio apps as people said it was ;-)[11:24:09] <iMax_pp> hrm, the last time I tried to play a wav file on the media player (using OpenSound) I get something... ugly. It works but the sound was distorted.[11:24:38] <gordonjcp> what kind of distorted? presumably xrunny distorted?[11:25:04] <iMax_pp> I didn't try to see further.[11:25:23] <gordonjcp> well, "bitty" rather than clipped sounding?[11:25:43] <iMax_pp> yep[11:26:07] <gordonjcp> running natively or in an emulator?[11:26:37] <iMax_pp> emulator, Haiku didn't start on MacBook at the time.[11:26:41] <gordonjcp> okay[11:26:44] <gordonjcp> not totally surprised then[11:27:11] <gordonjcp> I suspect that's more an artifact of the environment than anything else[11:27:55] <iMax_pp> I didn't get that problem with other virtualized OS.[11:28:08] <gordonjcp> hmm[11:29:41] <iMax_pp> Hey but Haiku is still young! :)[11:30:36] *** prOSy has quit IRC[11:30:38] <iMax_pp> enough stable tu be usable, but there are still a lot of features to implement.[11:30:43] <gordonjcp> yeah[11:31:18] <gordonjcp> like I said, if I could get ff3, firebug, a tabbed editor and Django running, it would be close to 100% usable as my laptop OS[11:31:34] <gordonjcp> oh, and a mail client, 'cos I can't figure out the Haiku mail client at all[11:31:44] <gordonjcp> ssh and mutt, I suspect[11:32:51] <iMax_pp> I would prefer a native browser than ff3 :-/[11:33:01] <iMax_pp> ssh is in.[11:33:05] <iMax_pp> OpenSSH I mean.[11:33:10] <gordonjcp> yeah, I've used it[11:33:21] <gordonjcp> a native browser *that had firebug* would be peachy[11:34:00] <iMax_pp> Or just the WebKit debugger.[11:34:28] <gordonjcp> not tried that[11:36:06] <iMax_pp> Well, It's time to cook. :)[11:36:41] <gordonjcp> right, I'm going to spend 10 mins debugging my startup[11:37:15] <gordonjcp> I get a black screen right after startup, a little blink from the kb LEDs, and that's it[11:37:29] <gordonjcp> using VESA drivers seems to help[11:40:35] <aldeck> gordonjcp: all the splash icons light up and then black screen?[11:41:15] <gordonjcp> aldeck: yup[11:41:22] <gordonjcp> NVidia 7300, booting natively[11:41:33] <aldeck> then it sounds like an unsuported video driver[11:41:44] <aldeck> tried cesa?[11:41:46] <gordonjcp> works if I set VESA mode, but then I can't get more than 1280x1024[11:41:46] <aldeck> vesa[11:42:04] <aldeck> ah, no luck :)[11:42:11] <gordonjcp> okay, recommended cards then?[11:42:17] <aldeck> vesa works perfeclty on my desktop 1680x1050[11:42:36] <aldeck> but i've got the same problem on my laptop's 7600go[11:43:41] <aldeck> gordonjcp: well, i don't have any supported video card. but i'm very happy with vesa[11:43:51] <aldeck> (when it supports my monitor resolution)[11:44:37] <aldeck> that depends on your video bios declaring the good resolution[11:45:23] <aldeck> so there's not much that can be done[11:46:12] <aldeck> for the note, my desktop has a 8800gts 512[11:46:57] <gordonjcp> aldeck: okay[11:47:06] <gordonjcp> thing is I can select 1400x1050, which would do[11:47:23] <gordonjcp> but when Haiku starts it won't let me select above 1280x1024[11:47:53] <aldeck> you should set the resomlution with the Screen preflet[11:48:00] <aldeck> just remove the nvidia driver[11:48:17] <aldeck> ie: put it in the trash :)[11:48:55] <aldeck> it will always use vesa after that[11:51:19] <aldeck> btw, you can see what reolution your video bios reports somewhere up in the syslog, /var/log/syslog[11:51:57] <gordonjcp> hmm, I can do that from qemu...[11:52:21] <aldeck> yep, or bfs_shell[11:52:39] <aldeck> or when booting in vesa :)[11:58:22] <aldeck> got to go, good luck :)[11:58:27] *** aldeck has quit IRC[12:09:33] <mmu_man> anyone with moderation rights on the website ?[12:09:50] <mmu_man> seems we have some spammers on the "site update to drupal 5" news[12:11:09] *** sugar3 has joined #haiku[12:21:05] <rennj> hey mmu_man tested out nfs the other day, nice work nolonger kdl's[12:21:16] <mmu_man> :)[12:21:17] <rennj> list top level dirs to[12:21:20] <mmu_man> still subfolders don't work[12:21:24] <rennj> but uid/gid is all messed[12:21:27] <mmu_man> stat() seems broken[12:21:42] <rennj> yeah left it running for about 10 hours[12:21:47] <rennj> did mkdir[12:21:50] <rennj> showed up[12:21:56] <mmu_man> I streamed video off it :p[12:22:02] *** wackymacs has joined #haiku[12:22:15] <surrounder> 2[12:22:20] <surrounder> oops[12:22:39] *** adamk has joined #haiku[12:22:48] <rennj> yeah ssh was working and nfs so i was impressed[12:22:58] <rennj> netstat didnt show the nfs connection thow[12:24:48] <rennj> also i think the haiku vm was broadcasting some dhcp requests periodically[12:25:21] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny UDP 0.0.0.0:68 255.255.255.255:67 in via em0[12:25:21] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny UDP 0.0.0.0:68 255.255.255.255:67 in via em0[12:25:21] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny UDP 0.0.0.0:68 255.255.255.255:67 in via em0[12:25:21] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny UDP 0.0.0.0:68 255.255.255.255:67 in via em0[12:25:29] <rennj> that was the haiku vm doing that crap[12:25:49] <rennj> kept on doing it for 10 hours[12:25:52] <mmu_man> got nfs working from a vm ?[12:25:57] <rennj> of course[12:25:58] <mmu_man> couldn't get it to act in qemu[12:26:05] <mmu_man> ah, over ssh maybe[12:26:23] <rennj> i use nat not bridged thow[12:26:37] <rennj> i use the same .vmx file i use for beos vm[12:26:39] <mmu_man> ah, I only use -net user[12:26:45] <mmu_man> and qemu...[12:26:48] <rennj> right well qemu is bit diff[12:27:41] *** xRaich[o]2x has joined #haiku[12:31:43] <rennj> haiku-pre-alpha-r30629 was image i ran[12:37:12] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[12:40:10] *** rennj-haiku has joined #haiku[12:41:24] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny UDP 0.0.0.0:68 255.255.255.255:67 in via em0[12:41:24] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny ICMP:8.0 192.168.253.254 192.168.253.133 in via em0[12:41:24] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny UDP 0.0.0.0:68 255.255.255.255:67 in via em0[12:41:27] <gordonjcp> right, booted in vesa with the nvidia drvivers removed[12:41:34] <rennj> yeah see haiku vm is noisey on the net[12:41:39] <rennj> lots of broadcasting going on[12:41:54] <gordonjcp> can select 1280x1024, and that works[12:42:20] <gordonjcp> can select 1400x1050, but that reports "The screen mode could not be set: Unknown Mode"[12:46:19] *** rennj-beos has joined #haiku[12:46:46] <rennj> hmmm, guess beos vm does same thing[12:47:04] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny UDP 0.0.0.0:68 255.255.255.255:67 in via em0[12:47:04] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny ICMP:8.0 192.168.253.254 192.168.253.132 in via em0[12:47:04] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny UDP 0.0.0.0:68 255.255.255.255:67 in via em0[12:47:20] <rennj> must be a vmware thing[12:48:04] <rennj> but i know this haiku vm was spitting out requests for 10 hours to port 67[12:48:32] <sugar3> Hi. I try install Haiku on SD card with flashnul, but flashnul -p show me that I don't have avaible physical disk... only logical disk C:\ D:\ E:\ F:\ Why?[12:48:39] <gordonjcp> rennj: that's dhcp, isn't it?[12:48:44] <rennj> yeah[12:49:47] <rennj> it doesnt seem to be doing it now..[12:49:54] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[12:50:07] <rennj> course that was first boot of brand new vm, so that might have something to do with it[12:50:22] <gordonjcp> hmm[12:50:40] <gordonjcp> right, well at least I've got a weirdly-stretched 1280x1024 screen, and real hardware[12:51:03] *** M199 has quit IRC[12:51:05] * gordonjcp -> coffee[12:54:22] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[12:55:05] <rennj-haiku> well 1280x800 vesa works in vmware[12:55:31] <rennj-haiku> wish 1280x800 vesa beos worked[12:55:37] <rennj-haiku> but it dont[12:59:55] <rennj-beos> ok maybe ill try to record a video here, show something[13:00:12] <rennj-beos> beos vm still plays audio/video better then haiku vm[13:00:46] <rennj-beos> like if i take terminal and wiggle it around the screen while song is playing[13:00:57] <rennj-beos> haiku vm skips all over the place[13:01:02] <rennj-beos> beos vm doesnt do that[13:01:40] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[13:03:35] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:03:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[13:11:04] *** glootech has joined #haiku[13:11:56] *** glootech has quit IRC[13:12:09] *** glootech has joined #haiku[13:13:28] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[13:14:33] *** glootech_ has joined #haiku[13:31:32] *** sugar3 has quit IRC[13:32:57] *** glootech has quit IRC[13:35:09] *** glootech_ has left #haiku[13:41:03] *** Fainto has joined #haiku[13:43:46] *** Svarthandske has joined #haiku[13:45:20] <CIA-15> mmlr * r30642 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/ata/ATAChannel.cpp: Add three more error checks for paranoias sake.[13:52:52] <CIA-15> mmlr * r30643 /haiku/trunk/src/system/boot/platform/bios_ia32/devices.cpp:[13:52:52] <CIA-15> * Check for disk extensions before using them (mostly for good practice reasons)[13:52:52] <CIA-15> * A CHS read error would previously be hidden by a successful disk system reset.[13:52:52] <CIA-15> Not that it matters much because it'd have resulted in a non-booting system[13:52:52] <CIA-15> anyway.[13:52:52] <CIA-15> * Add some more debug output, minor cleanup.[13:55:45] *** xRaich[o]2x has quit IRC[13:59:20] *** Paradoxon has joined #haiku[14:01:01] *** Gaap has joined #haiku[14:01:05] <stpere> morning[14:01:11] <gordonjcp> afternoon ;-)[14:01:17] <stpere> :)[14:01:29] <gordonjcp> my clock is an hour slow :-/[14:01:36] <stpere> next time, I will simply say hello :P[14:01:41] <gordonjcp> it's set to BST, but it's reading GMT...[14:01:46] <gordonjcp> right, rebooting to Linux[14:01:55] <stpere> BST?[14:02:11] <stpere> Bresil?[14:02:20] <stpere> no[14:02:33] *** redblue has quit IRC[14:02:33] <stpere> hmm[14:02:44] <iMax_pp> Hi stpere[14:02:51] <stpere> oh, british[14:02:52] <stpere> of course[14:02:56] <stpere> hi iMax_pp[14:03:03] <mmu_man> http://tree.celinuxforum.org/CelfPubWiki/ELCE2009CallForPresentations[14:04:09] <stpere> mmu_man: interesting[14:04:33] <stpere> mmu_man: are you amongst the organizers?[14:04:54] <mmu_man> no[14:04:58] <mmu_man> just got the info[14:05:08] <mmu_man> could be interesting for arm :)[14:05:13] <stpere> indeed[14:24:11] *** aljen has joined #haiku[14:24:24] <aljen> hey[14:28:10] *** RHarmsen has joined #haiku[14:28:52] *** Carbamide has joined #haiku[14:29:54] *** aljen has quit IRC[14:29:56] *** Karurosu has joined #haiku[14:30:04] <Carbamide> Good morning[14:30:28] *** aljen has joined #haiku[14:31:24] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[14:36:37] *** rennj-haiku has quit IRC[14:36:50] *** rennj-beos has quit IRC[14:40:57] <mmu_man> pfoetchen du you plan on comming to RMLL ?[14:41:03] *** kmargar has joined #haiku[14:41:24] <mmu_man> http://2009.rmll.info/Haiku-portage-sur-une-nouvelle.html?lang=en[14:41:41] <mmu_man> if you plan to I shall do the talk in english I suppose[14:47:13] *** markos_ is now known as Guest14403[14:47:23] *** kmargar is now known as markos_[14:47:51] *** xRaich[o]2x has joined #haiku[14:53:56] *** Master199 has joined #haiku[14:55:13] *** knottnhupfer has quit IRC[14:55:18] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[14:55:44] *** Guest14403 has quit IRC[14:58:27] *** HaiColon has quit IRC[14:59:22] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[15:00:47] *** MindChild has quit IRC[15:02:16] <pfoetchen> mmu_man: I can talk in french, too[15:02:56] <Carbamide> I took a French class in 7th grade.[15:03:12] <pfoetchen> I'm half French ;)[15:03:22] <Carbamide> All I remember is "Do you speak French"[15:03:27] <Hodapp> I might have a great-grandparent who was possibly part-French.[15:03:28] <Carbamide> Par le vu france (sp?)[15:03:45] <pfoetchen> by the way can something be done against the spam on the homepage?[15:03:47] <iMax_pp> Erm that's not exactly that. ^^[15:03:57] <iMax_pp> Parlez-vous français.[15:04:04] <Carbamide> Yeah, I knew I was spelling it wrong[15:04:16] <iMax_pp> :)[15:04:20] <pfoetchen> the problem is I can't realy write french only speak it ;)[15:04:20] <Carbamide> :-)[15:04:24] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[15:04:24] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[15:05:04] *** MindChild has joined #haiku[15:05:18] *** megaf has joined #Haiku[15:05:58] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[15:06:32] <CIA-15> mmlr * r30644 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/ata/ATAChannel.cpp:[15:06:32] <CIA-15> By popular request: Change the invalid device number and add a comment[15:06:32] <CIA-15> explaining the reasons behind it. Oh well, at least the commit count raises...[15:11:37] <CIA-15> zooey * r30645 /haiku/trunk/ (build/jam/HaikuImage src/kits/locale/Language.cpp):[15:11:37] <CIA-15> * moved locale language files from B_BEOS_ETC_DIRECTORY to[15:11:37] <CIA-15> B_SYSTEM_DATA_DIRECTORY, as that seems more appropriate[15:14:48] *** adamk has quit IRC[15:16:12] <helf> wow[15:16:30] <DeadYak> what?[15:16:32] <helf> someone has actually bid on the 13lbs of computer scrap i put on ebay for gold[15:16:56] <stpere> haha[15:16:57] <helf> i checked the guys feedback, half of his previous buys have been for computer scrap for gold reclamation[15:17:05] <helf> guess he knows what he is doing[15:17:18] <stpere> how much did he bid?[15:17:26] <helf> $10[15:17:29] <helf> still have 4 days left[15:17:55] <Carbamide> Yay! 3847 is fixed! /me updates[15:17:55] <helf> i just wanted to clear out a lot of old crap and we dont have a recycling place handy :P[15:18:27] *** adamk has joined #haiku[15:22:31] <helf> windows 7 doesnt have drivers for old adaptec scsi controllers :P[15:22:33] <helf> darn[15:22:47] * pfoetchen just got another ARM powered device ;)[15:22:48] <pfoetchen> perhapse I should port Haiku to older ARM processors, too so that I can run it on my mobile phone ;)[15:23:00] *** ulterior_modem has quit IRC[15:23:02] <helf> i wanna run it on a psion netbook[15:23:11] *** ulterior_modem has joined #Haiku[15:23:19] <pfoetchen> there is an OS that does not support adaptec scsi controllers?[15:23:31] <DeadYak> pfoetchen: us?[15:24:58] <helf> heh[15:25:07] <helf> yeah, iwas kinda surprised, actually[15:26:21] <helf> this is bizarre[15:26:36] <helf> neither ubuntu nor windows 7 detect that i even have a soundcard but older OSes like xp work fine with it[15:26:55] <Carbamide> Is there a command that I can issue (under linux) that will update my installation of haiku without wiping it clean?[15:27:13] <Carbamide> jam -q @disk-ish[15:27:22] *** paul0 has joined #haiku[15:27:59] <DeadYak> jam -q @disk update-all but it will break hardcore in a lot of instances[15:28:05] <DeadYak> i.e. when the directory structure was changed[15:28:33] <Carbamide> Ah, ok. I'll just wipe it clean then.[15:33:29] *** glootech has joined #haiku[15:39:25] *** tehdwarf has quit IRC[15:42:28] <mmu_man> http://www.benzinemag.net/images/news/2009_05/hadopi.jpg[15:44:21] *** dwarfyperson has joined #haiku[15:45:06] <helf|laptop> hm[15:45:15] <helf|laptop> my fx5500 no longer works with the windows drivers[15:45:18] <helf|laptop> for any OS revision[15:45:21] <helf|laptop> weird[15:45:37] <helf|laptop> apparently linux is now sabotaging hardware so itll not work in windows :P[15:48:43] <stpere> neat :)[15:48:46] <stpere> hehe[15:49:26] *** Hugen_ has joined #haiku[15:49:44] <Hugen_> hey all[15:49:50] <stpere> hi Hugen_[15:50:10] <Hugen_> stpere[15:51:55] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[15:53:21] <dwarfyperson> helf: I have the same card[15:53:25] <dwarfyperson> the latest drivers are shit[15:53:29] <dwarfyperson> you want uh...[15:53:32] <dwarfyperson> let me check the version[15:53:44] <Hugen_> hi mmadia[15:53:55] <mmadia> howdy[15:54:47] <dwarfyperson> helf|laptop: the latest version that works correctly is 169.21[15:55:27] <mmu_man> helf the psion netbook likely doesn't have an mmu[15:55:28] <mmu_man> too old[15:57:49] <stpere> hi mmadia[15:58:50] *** glootech_ has joined #haiku[16:02:26] *** glootech has quit IRC[16:06:49] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[16:16:11] <pfoetchen> mmu_man the sa1100 has an mmu so theoreticaly it might even be able to run haiku sometimes ;) (ok it's ARMv4 and the code I wrote now is ARMv6 only but that can be changed ;))[16:17:10] <pfoetchen> I might even change that soon so I can run the kernel on my "new" mobile phone ;)[16:17:11] <mmu_man> http://blog.aurel32.net/?p=47 Debian switching from glibc to eglibc ![16:17:31] <mmu_man> pfoetchen :)[16:19:02] *** leszek has joined #haiku[16:19:13] <DeadYak> mmu_man: eglibc = ?[16:19:19] <leszek> hi[16:19:23] <MindChild> great... another c lib mess[16:19:35] <MindChild> Didnt they friggin learn between libc5 and glibc6[16:19:44] <MindChild> total bloody mess[16:19:52] <mmu_man> DeadYak embeded-friendly fork[16:21:20] <stpere> they say it's source and binary compatible with glibc (for the moment)[16:23:46] *** absabs has joined #haiku[16:23:54] <stpere> hi absabs[16:24:00] <absabs> hi stpere[16:24:41] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC[16:25:09] <absabs> wow, debian will replace glibc with eglibc[16:25:16] <stpere> yup[16:25:24] <absabs> good news[16:26:19] <MindChild> that isnt good news[16:26:26] <MindChild> Watch the fallout[16:26:39] <absabs> fallout?[16:27:25] <NeonLicht> maybe it's just for the installation (or even the Live) CD?[16:28:01] <DeadYak> mmu_man: ah.[16:28:56] <HeTo> NeonLicht: I understood it's a complete replace[16:29:07] <absabs> I think so[16:29:44] <HeTo> they didn't like the upstream of glibc and instead of having to have a ton of local fixes they rather change the upstream[16:29:58] <NeonLicht> I see[16:30:03] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[16:31:42] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[16:37:06] *** xRaich[o]2x has quit IRC[16:37:13] *** raichoo is now known as xRaich[o]2x[16:40:12] <Carbamide> So, I'm trying to change the persmissions of /dev/sdb so that jam -q @disk will work, but somehow the permissions keep getting changed back. What am I doing wrong?[16:40:33] <Carbamide> or should I just sudo it?[16:40:34] <DeadYak> luroh was having that problem with Ubuntu 9.04 the other day and couldn't figure out a reason either[16:40:43] <Carbamide> yeah, this is 9.04[16:40:53] <DeadYak> note he didn't have that issue with 8.10[16:40:59] <Carbamide> Huh...[16:43:15] <Carbamide> Will using sudo work or will that have unforeseen consequences?[16:43:41] <DeadYak> it'll work, the only problem is all the generated output files will be root owned[16:44:41] <pfoetchen> Carbamide: you can first compile everything normaly until the eroor messages and write it with sudo then[16:45:09] <helf|laptop> jeez[16:45:16] <helf|laptop> we might be closed for up to 3 weeks or more[16:45:25] <stpere> helf|laptop: doh[16:45:33] <DeadYak> helf|laptop: because?[16:45:33] <stpere> paid anyway?[16:45:39] <absabs> pfoetchen, I used to build haiku in this way hehee,[16:45:41] <helf|laptop> there is a dispute between the insurance company and the roofing company as to whether it was bad roofing or hail damage that caused the leaks[16:45:59] <DeadYak> helf|laptop: a tornado just tore through this area[16:46:02] <helf|laptop> we are getting a new roof regardless but they will have to bid out the work... this is a nightmare[16:46:04] <DeadYak> well, a couple miles west[16:46:05] <helf|laptop> DeadYak, oh wow[16:46:06] <DeadYak> but...[16:46:10] <helf|laptop> f1-2?[16:46:14] <gordonjcp> helf|laptop: messy[16:46:16] <DeadYak> pardon?[16:46:29] <helf|laptop> strength class[16:46:35] <DeadYak> dunno[16:46:41] <stpere> out of scale :O[16:46:47] <DeadYak> one of my coworkers is heading home to check damage though because it apparently tore through his neighborhood[16:46:47] <gordonjcp> we've had it unnaturally calm this year[16:47:09] <DeadYak> I also note my router at home appears to be offline[16:47:15] <gordonjcp> normally we get a couple of weeks of high winds around mid-January, mid-February[16:47:17] <gordonjcp> DeadYak: eep[16:47:24] <DeadYak> gordonjcp: whereat?[16:47:34] <gordonjcp> DeadYak: NW Scotland[16:47:37] <DeadYak> ah[16:47:40] <helf|laptop> oh no[16:47:42] <DeadYak> I wondered because of the finnish host[16:47:47] <gordonjcp> Isle of Skye, to be exact, although I stay in Glasgow at the moment[16:47:49] <helf|laptop> hope it didnt get any of your property[16:48:00] <DeadYak> helf|laptop: I doubt it, more likely it just took out something or other at the ISP[16:48:07] <gordonjcp> DeadYak: yeah, I got a sweet deal on a VPS a few years ago[16:48:08] *** adamk has quit IRC[16:48:09] <helf|laptop> yeah[16:48:10] *** dwarfyperson has quit IRC[16:48:11] <helf|laptop> hopefully[16:48:17] <DeadYak> helf|laptop: the coworker's neighborhood I was talking about is around 5-10 miles west of where I live[16:48:28] *** aurynn has quit IRC[16:48:52] <gordonjcp> this winter we lost a bit of roof off the house up north, but it's all pretty shagged anyway[16:49:02] <gordonjcp> really needs redone[16:49:54] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[16:50:02] <helf|laptop> oh[16:50:48] *** tqh has joined #haiku[16:51:12] *** ulterior_modem has quit IRC[16:51:18] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[16:51:33] *** ulterior_modem has joined #Haiku[16:53:32] *** andreas_dr has quit IRC[16:53:51] *** Carbamide has quit IRC[16:55:13] *** megaf has quit IRC[16:58:12] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[16:58:37] *** Carbamide has joined #haiku[16:59:09] *** aljen has quit IRC[16:59:10] <Carbamide> Huh... with the latest svn, bezilla browser won't start[16:59:23] <Carbamide> oh well[16:59:27] <DeadYak> weird, it works for me...[16:59:38] <Carbamide> Yeah?[16:59:39] <DeadYak> you're using the optional package right?[16:59:44] <Carbamide> Yeah[16:59:49] <DeadYak> huh[16:59:59] <DeadYak> anything of note in tail /var/log/syslog ?[17:01:12] *** szczur has joined #haiku[17:02:40] <Carbamide> bad address[17:02:52] <stpere> which rendering is the right one? http://www.gaspesie.net/philippe/screenshot2.png[17:02:56] <stpere> top or bottom row?[17:03:07] <stpere> the left column is without focus, the right one is with focus[17:03:14] <stpere> pay attention to the blue lines[17:03:28] *** DBAlex has joined #haiku[17:03:37] <stpere> or, the fancy border in general I should say[17:09:12] *** Carbamide has quit IRC[17:13:10] *** raichoo has joined #haiku[17:13:20] *** raichoo has quit IRC[17:15:54] *** Carbamide has joined #haiku[17:24:03] <CIA-15> bonefish * r30646 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/support/String.cpp: Simplification.[17:24:36] <CIA-15> bonefish * r30647 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/debuganalyzer/gui/chart/ChartDataRange.h: Added some handy methods.[17:29:15] <CIA-15> bonefish * r30648 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/debuganalyzer/gui/chart/ (Chart.cpp Chart.h):[17:29:15] <CIA-15> * Made the displayed domain and range settable.[17:29:15] <CIA-15> * Added support for scrolling.[17:29:15] <CIA-15> * Automatic white space cleanup.[17:29:35] *** sugar3 has joined #haiku[17:31:22] <CIA-15> bonefish * r30649 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/debuganalyzer/gui/thread_window/ActivityPage.cpp:[17:31:22] <CIA-15> * Added scroll view around the activity chart.[17:31:22] <CIA-15> * Set the displayed domain to 0.5 s for debugging purposes.[17:35:32] *** aljen has joined #haiku[17:37:12] *** markos_ has quit IRC[17:37:28] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[17:41:36] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[17:41:42] *** markos_ has joined #haiku[17:45:22] <CIA-15> czeidler * r30650 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/mail/Prefs.cpp: Some more spelling.[17:47:20] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[17:47:21] *** skar1 has joined #haiku[17:48:26] *** paul0 has quit IRC[17:56:07] *** yoritomo has joined #haiku[17:56:39] <yoritomo> hello all[17:57:01] <yoritomo> whats new on haiku ? some project already about a RC ?[17:58:22] <skar1> 10 bugs to alfa :d[17:58:36] <mmadia> alpha ;)[17:59:13] <skar1> ok alpha :P[17:59:42] <skar1> I cant wait for :D[18:01:14] <Hugen_> but alpha=alfa[18:01:55] <skar1> yes alpha=alfa[18:02:16] <mmadia> ah, i didn't realize the alternate spelling.[18:02:42] <yoritomo> that makes me cry thinking that this version will just be a simple clone of beos5 :( that will take a while to see a real haiku new version :([18:02:50] <umccullough> wut?[18:02:56] <DeadYak> uh....pardon?[18:03:01] <umccullough> damnit, why do people keep insisting that haiku is a clone of beos...[18:03:03] <Carbamide> Uh oh[18:03:06] <mmadia> yoritomo : Haiku is not a simple clone of BeOS.[18:03:08] <Hugen_> skar1: I know ;) in Spain told alpha?[18:03:14] <skar1> mmm i dont thik so, haiku is a OS[18:03:26] <mmadia> there are *many* additions to Haiku that makes it technically superior.[18:03:43] <skar1> just have a compability but is not BeOS[18:04:01] <skar1> yeah! is superior[18:04:06] *** adamk has joined #haiku[18:04:12] <stpere> yoritomo: think winxp vs win98[18:04:14] <yoritomo> untill now that still very close to beos 5 if i don't mistake, not yet supporting well usb and network still very basic :([18:04:25] <umccullough> yoritomo, you're misinformed apparently[18:04:27] <stpere> winxp can run win98 stuff[18:04:37] <yoritomo> yes sure, win98 was really better than XP[18:04:47] <umccullough> that sounds like the "state of haiku" as of like 4 years ago[18:04:50] <stpere> oookkk[18:05:07] <skar1> windows 7 vs win98[18:05:53] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[18:05:57] <umccullough> haiku's usb stack is far advanced from beos, haiku's netstack is well ahead of beos net_server[18:05:59] <yoritomo> i did not se yet windows seven but if it is a so good creation like VIsta i guess we will have something to burn on the stoves again :D[18:06:11] <yoritomo> that is why i hope on Haiku[18:06:18] <stpere> yoritomo: hence the pre-alpha moniker :)[18:06:19] <skar1> or OSX vs Mac os 9[18:06:43] <yoritomo> because that surely will have the stability of linux, and easy like windows, but without the default of both ones[18:08:31] <skar1> Haiku have more drivers ¿no?[18:08:39] <yoritomo> so a beta version is already forecasted?[18:08:49] <skar1> i need wifi :D!!![18:08:55] <stpere> no, we plan to stop at alpha..?![18:09:02] <stpere> hehe jk[18:09:11] <stpere> I mean, of course :)[18:09:14] <umccullough> actually, let's stop before alpha :)[18:09:29] <umccullough> we're attracting too many naysayers already ;)[18:09:33] <stpere> lol[18:09:53] <skar1> whe come the alpha ? can you calculate some tentative date for the release?[18:09:55] *** lordheavy has left #haiku[18:09:59] <skar1> *when[18:10:06] <umccullough> calculate it from what?[18:10:13] <stpere> umccullough: air.. thin air[18:10:23] <mmadia> skar1 : when the remaing bugs are fixed ;)[18:10:34] <umccullough> it's hard to calculate when someone will fix things :D[18:10:39] <skar1> :)[18:10:42] <skar1> ok ok[18:11:03] <skar1> jeje[18:11:08] * umccullough tries to calculate when people will stop asking[18:11:17] <skar1> alphaaaaa!!! please come to me[18:11:19] <stpere> umccullough: dec 21 2012 :P[18:11:20] <umccullough> E[18:11:36] <helf|laptop> @ 12:21pm[18:12:13] <skar1> ouch, so many time, i gonna take the time machine for go to[18:12:18] <yoritomo> the date of the end of the world stpere ? :D[18:12:25] <stpere> yoritomo: yup :)[18:12:30] <skar1> buaaa[18:12:34] <stpere> that's a marketing stun we set up years ago[18:12:35] <skar1> :'([18:12:40] <stpere> like, millenium ago[18:12:45] <stpere> when we started the project :P[18:13:10] <skar1> "the day when come the doomsday ....haiku for the end of the days"[18:13:33] <stpere> my humor can be weird, sorry if I offended long term members[18:14:10] <helf|laptop> 2012 is the end of the astrological age[18:14:55] <helf|laptop> 2012 is the beginning of age of pisces[18:14:58] <yoritomo> :) i never understood why my brother prepare his end for 2012 already :D but me i have plans to use Haiku on 2013 :D[18:15:27] <umccullough> isn't the internet supposed to die in 2012?[18:15:56] <helf|laptop> we can only hope[18:15:56] <stpere> no, but lhc is expected to be back in operation :)[18:17:08] <yoritomo> now is it possible to compile almost any linux sources under haiku yet ? i mean how about GTK , QT4 and X11 compatibility ?[18:17:43] <skar1> ahhh we need haiku to prepare the apocalipsis[18:18:09] <yoritomo> the Gimp is already usable under haiku for example ?[18:18:27] <iMax_pp> yoritomo: no way. I hope you'll never see X11 in Haiku.[18:18:27] <PulkoMandy> no, we don't want to import linux things[18:18:33] <umccullough> heh[18:18:37] <PulkoMandy> because that would mean we get the defaults from linux :)[18:18:45] <glootech_> no linux in my haiku please[18:18:50] <skar1> original software[18:18:51] <umccullough> well, even if we do, there's no official gtk port for haiku yet, nor qt4[18:18:51] <glootech_> or as little linux as possible[18:18:56] <umccullough> and there's no haiku-specific x11 server either[18:18:57] <skar1> or native port[18:19:24] <iMax_pp> prefer native software than silly ports. :)[18:19:42] <umccullough> reminds me, i wonder if the pixel32 guy was planning on a haiku port[18:20:21] <PulkoMandy> grafx2 is better :)[18:21:19] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[18:21:47] *** tqh has quit IRC[18:21:54] <skar1> is better opensource soft but if have close soft too can be good too[18:22:13] <skar1> but a native port for haiku of gimp[18:22:24] <skar1> this can beat balls...a really native port[18:22:29] <umccullough> i don't think there's any way to "natively" port gimp[18:22:35] <skar1> no?[18:22:37] <glootech_> I would rather see photoshop for haiku ;)[18:22:39] <skar1> :([18:22:41] <DeadYak> good luck with that considering it's GTK-based through and through[18:22:42] <glootech_> but I know I'm only dreaming[18:22:43] <umccullough> well, consider that gimp is what GTK was designed for[18:22:45] <glootech_> at least for now.[18:22:55] <skar1> :'( gimp is sooo good[18:23:06] <DeadYak> I don't like gimp's UI all that much personally[18:23:25] <glootech_> I don't like it at all[18:23:29] <pfoetchen> gimp's UI is horrible...[18:23:32] <DeadYak> umccullough: amazing how many people forget what that acronym stands for[18:23:47] <umccullough> :)[18:23:59] <AlexForster> i thought it was gnome toolkit[18:24:03] <DeadYak> Gimp Tool Kit[18:24:08] <DeadYak> GTK long predates gnome[18:24:11] <umccullough> yep[18:24:27] <umccullough> if they call it gnome now, then someone changed it for marketing reasons ;)[18:24:28] <AlexForster> oh, really? i thought gtk was to gnome as qt is to kde[18:24:37] <skar1> the new gimp is better than old gimp[18:24:37] <DeadYak> AlexForster: it is *now*[18:24:38] <umccullough> not originally[18:24:42] <skar1> believe in me[18:24:44] * pfoetchen should write a haiku photoshop clone as killerapp for haiku ;)[18:24:46] <DeadYak> AlexForster: gnome didn't exist at all when GTK wsa created[18:24:51] <DeadYak> was*[18:25:01] <umccullough> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gtk[18:25:06] <HeTo> qt also existed long before KDE[18:25:40] <DeadYak> HeTo: I'm not touching that analogy :) just saying GTK wasn't even remotely something the gnome people came up with, they took it from gimp[18:26:10] <stpere> well, it stays in the family[18:26:23] <stpere> the G stand for the same thing in both products after all :)[18:26:37] *** Hugen_ has quit IRC[18:26:38] <umccullough> stpere, that's true ;)[18:26:41] <stpere> so I would say, they borrowed it :)[18:26:44] *** Hugen_ has joined #haiku[18:26:47] <umccullough> incestual software ftw![18:26:51] <stpere> lol[18:27:01] <DeadYak> umccullough: ROTFL[18:27:55] <skar1> ok haku must beat the aplications[18:28:10] <skar1> we need a video editor[18:28:28] <skar1> a photoshop clon? or a new tool for graphics?[18:28:31] <mmadia> skar1 : what we need is an alpha release.[18:28:42] <stpere> skar1: I say we could improve wonderbrush[18:28:45] <mmadia> after that we need more contributors. :)[18:28:52] <stpere> definitely[18:28:57] <skar1> jeje :( yes sad but true, i am a fantasyousus[18:29:03] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[18:29:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[18:29:14] <PulkoMandy> we just need less noise on IRC, actually ;)[18:29:23] <stpere> hahah![18:29:23] <umccullough> PulkoMandy, we have another channel for that[18:29:26] <skar1> wonderbrush can be[18:29:29] <stpere> ok, back to coding :)[18:30:33] <stpere> I didn't say stfu, I think?[18:30:36] <stpere> :)[18:31:34] <skar1> i can not coding naow, because i don have experience.. but i promisse when the alpha released, i gonna learn to code in c[18:31:49] <stpere> oh but there are other area you can contribute[18:32:58] <stpere> like.. hmm.. actually using haiku until it smells burning[18:33:11] <stpere> not litterally, of course[18:33:21] <skar1> jejej[18:33:23] <umccullough> well, in my case, that can literally happen[18:33:28] *** glootech_ has quit IRC[18:33:33] <skar1> thats what i do[18:33:37] <stpere> :)[18:33:38] <umccullough> i've had my haiku machine overheat on several occasions and shutdown[18:33:44] *** glootech has joined #haiku[18:33:54] <umccullough> in fact, one of my haiku boxes has had the CPU fan replaced twice now :/[18:33:58] *** absabs has quit IRC[18:35:43] *** [1]umccullough has joined #haiku[18:37:35] *** [1]umccullough has quit IRC[18:38:12] *** ChanServ has quit IRC[18:38:12] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC[18:38:12] *** Maya-sama has quit IRC[18:38:12] *** 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Bumphead has quit IRC[18:38:19] *** armchair has quit IRC[18:38:19] *** Mazon has quit IRC[18:38:20] *** adamk has quit IRC[18:38:20] *** wildur has quit IRC[18:38:20] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[18:38:20] *** Svarthandske has quit IRC[18:38:20] *** NeonLicht has quit IRC[18:38:20] *** tic_ has quit IRC[18:38:21] *** visari has quit IRC[18:38:21] *** Plnt has quit IRC[18:38:21] *** stef has quit IRC[18:38:21] *** skar1 has quit IRC[18:38:21] *** sugar3 has quit IRC[18:38:21] *** HeTo has quit IRC[18:38:22] *** Paradoxon has quit IRC[18:38:22] *** koo5 has quit IRC[18:38:22] *** xcasex has quit IRC[18:38:22] *** rkbm has quit IRC[18:38:22] *** Vampyre has quit IRC[18:38:22] *** ln- has quit IRC[18:38:22] *** umccullough has quit IRC[18:38:22] *** buzzomatic has quit IRC[18:38:50] *** Vampyre has joined #haiku[18:40:15] *** ln- has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** adamk has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** wildur has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** Svarthandske has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** Bumphead has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** NeonLicht has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** armchair has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** Mazon has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** tic_ has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** visari has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** stef has joined #haiku[18:40:39] *** Plnt has joined #haiku[18:41:13] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[18:42:05] *** HaikuFan has joined #haiku[18:42:19] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[18:42:24] *** DocPheniX has joined #Haiku[18:42:24] *** Teknomancer has joined #Haiku[18:42:24] *** sarmale has joined #Haiku[18:42:24] *** [Katisu] has joined #Haiku[18:42:24] *** Kernel86 has joined #Haiku[18:43:04] *** [1]umccullough has joined #haiku[18:43:48] <[1]umccullough> ah, this is the far more popular side of the netsplit[18:43:52] <yoritomo> then almost no actual open sources programs will run under haiku ?[18:44:03] <[1]umccullough> yoritomo, that's ludicour[18:44:05] <[1]umccullough> ludicrous[18:44:09] *** Clay_ has joined #haiku[18:44:09] *** ghane has joined #haiku[18:44:09] *** thebolt has joined #haiku[18:44:17] <[1]umccullough> http://ports.haiku-files.org[18:44:30] *** Hugen_ has joined #haiku[18:44:30] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[18:44:30] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[18:44:30] *** wackymacs has joined #haiku[18:44:30] *** Malmis has joined #haiku[18:44:30] *** gordonjcp has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** ChanServ has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** boardbot25 has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** surrounder has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** xcasexwrka has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** stpere has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** Fainto has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** Gaap has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** Carbamide has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** qoreQ has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** Maya-sama has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** MrSunshine__ has joined #haiku[18:44:33] *** irc.freenode.net sets mode: +o ChanServ[18:44:37] <yoritomo> but anyway it is planned to make open sources programs on haiku ?[18:44:46] *** koo5 has joined #haiku[18:44:51] *** qoreQ has quit IRC[18:44:58] *** qoreQ has joined #haiku[18:45:03] <[1]umccullough> <sigh>[18:45:09] *** buzzomatic has joined #haiku[18:45:15] <yoritomo> i am really affraid we would have an os made for closed programs again, and non free as well :([18:45:16] *** skar1 has joined #haiku[18:45:16] *** HeTo has joined #haiku[18:45:35] <DeadYak> what would possibly stop someone from making an open source app?[18:45:41] <HeTo> now split that took long[18:45:46] <DeadYak> plenty of those exist for BeOS, let alone Haiku[18:45:46] <adamk> yoritomo: Huh? There's nothing stopping anyone from writing an open source app for Haiku.[18:45:50] <adamk> There are, in fact, many already.[18:46:07] <[1]umccullough> better question: what's the incentive for writing a closed-source app for haiku?[18:46:19] <DeadYak> if by open source you mean port X11 and all that crap, then you will likely find resistance[18:46:50] *** [1]umccullough is now known as umccullough[18:46:58] <yoritomo> yes ok i understand what i mean, but for exemple possible to recode Gimp to use another GUI lib ?[18:47:02] <adamk> But there's still nothing to stop someone from making such a port.[18:47:12] <skar1> i really need, haiku, el artoolkit, blender, a video editor, a gimp o woder adved brush, a brwser, a really useful cortex, msn irc etc full[18:47:19] <umccullough> yoritomo, yeah, except you'd basically be rewriting much of gimp[18:47:33] <umccullough> even gimp on windows uses GTK+[18:47:36] <umccullough> and it sucks bigtime as a result[18:47:42] <umccullough> BIGTIME[18:47:43] <skar1> the opensource is the future[18:48:02] <skar1> this time is the end of the instryal revolution[18:48:08] <gordonjcp> skar1: if I could get anywhere with running Haiku natively on my "proper" computer I'd look at adding some more modules to Cortex ;-)[18:48:16] *** xcasex has joined #haiku[18:48:21] <umccullough> yoritomo, are you a developer?[18:48:28] <gordonjcp> skar1: filters, oscillators, that sort of thing[18:48:29] <yoritomo> GTK what wrong with it ? Not good neither ?[18:48:52] *** VinDuv has joined #haiku[18:48:54] <umccullough> GTK doesn't fit with Haiku's UI paradigm and programming design[18:48:56] <umccullough> not at all[18:49:07] <skar1> godonjcp: what stop you?[18:49:13] *** ulterior_modem has quit IRC[18:49:14] <gordonjcp> skar1: lack of video[18:49:23] <yoritomo> yes sometime, i did some project like encrypting system longtime ago for mandrake[18:49:49] <gordonjcp> skar1: it works perfectly on my R50e, but that's pretty slow and has quite a small screen[18:50:07] <gordonjcp> skar1: it works okay but terribly slowly in qemu on my desktop machine, but Haiku has no sound[18:50:16] <yoritomo> but can install some libraries like annex on it right ?[18:50:23] <umccullough> as an example, recently someone ported gnash to Haiku, and the resulting mess of shit that had to be compiled to use gnash was pretty much larger than all of Haiku and its included applications by itself[18:50:30] *** mmadia has left #haiku[18:50:30] <skar1> gordonjcp: oss dont work?[18:50:50] <gordonjcp> skar1: I don't think my machine supports OSS, I haven't used it for about a decade[18:51:17] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[18:51:18] <umccullough> yoritomo, having 200 libraries from linux that all duplicate functionality included into haiku's core is ... unwanted[18:51:37] *** ulterior_modem has joined #Haiku[18:51:49] <yoritomo> the actual haiku repositories still bebits ?[18:51:57] <skar1> gnash should come in haiku[18:52:20] <skar1> gordonjcp: then you should test haiku native please[18:53:06] <skar1> gnash preinstalled[18:53:18] <skar1> on gcc4 or hybrid version[18:53:29] <Hugen_> cze glootech[18:53:31] <gordonjcp> skar1: I am running it natively[18:53:45] <skar1> mm[18:54:06] <skar1> then is beacuse yo can not get sound ther eh?.[18:54:12] <gordonjcp> skar1: on my desktop I have crap video, on my R50e it works[18:54:26] <gordonjcp> I don't want to sit hacking away on my laptop though[18:56:54] <umccullough> skar1, gnash doesn't belong with haiku at all, IMO[18:57:14] <skar1> :([18:57:22] *** wtracy has joined #haiku[18:57:22] <umccullough> if you want gnash, use a "distro" that includes it[18:57:52] *** Hugen_ has quit IRC[18:58:29] <skar1> what about mono in haiku?[18:58:54] <adamk> Has it even been ported to haiku?[18:59:22] <skar1> because mono really is needed in haiku mens[18:59:45] <PulkoMandy> no, we don't need it :)[19:00:16] <adamk> If it works, someone can include it in their distribution if they want... It certainly doesn't belong in the base system.[19:00:40] <gordonjcp> python and sqlite would be good ;-)[19:01:54] <skar1> PulkoMandy: why not_?[19:02:58] <PulkoMandy> we don't even have java, and I don't see where Mono would be useful in any way :)[19:03:03] *** yoritomo has left #haiku[19:05:38] <CIA-15> czeidler * r30651 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/mail/ (7 files): Hopefully this are all remaining read erros.[19:08:30] <skar1> PulkoMandy: i understand[19:08:33] <skar1> :)[19:10:45] *** ulterior_modem has quit IRC[19:15:39] *** wtracy has quit IRC[19:20:17] *** wtracy has joined #haiku[19:21:00] *** wtracy has quit IRC[19:21:52] <umccullough> hey, let's include everything linux has![19:21:56] <umccullough> no.[19:22:07] *** procton has joined #haiku[19:22:31] <umccullough> if you want mono, build it yourself: http://ports.haiku-files.org/wiki/dev-lang/mono/2.x/1[19:23:18] <skar1> mm[19:23:35] <umccullough> frankly, mono would be pretty much pointless on haiku[19:23:46] <umccullough> and i'm even a .net/c# developer[19:23:53] <skar1> umccullough: open source is not linux....mono is not only for linux linux is just a kernel :P[19:24:16] <umccullough> skar1, only linux pre-packages it with their OS[19:24:28] <umccullough> only linux.[19:24:30] *** szczur has quit IRC[19:24:45] <umccullough> and in fact, probably only novell's version[19:25:10] <umccullough> ditto with python - what OSes pre-package that?[19:25:56] <skar1> and is not for include it on the haiku main but if we have the better option for haiku is good. many soft are very advanced now...for what reinventing it? gcc is in haiku too, and come with linux[19:26:09] <umccullough> gcc makes sense since haiku is built with it[19:26:39] <umccullough> haiku is not built with mono or python, or java[19:26:46] <umccullough> nor do applications written for haiku require those[19:27:24] <umccullough> see, there's this insane, crazy mentality out there that an OS must have every bell and whistle to be useful[19:27:24] *** Rakhun has joined #haiku[19:27:39] <umccullough> and those oses are bloat[19:28:23] <umccullough> why develop haiku if we're just going to do the same ridiculous thing?[19:28:38] <skar1> ok, but mono for have opensim wrk on jhaiku...why...cause i need opensim i dontn want linux no windows ...but yes to opensim,[19:29:00] <skar1> and need mono...and i just have a fansy nothing of this can be doit now[19:29:00] <umccullough> opensim? i don't even know what that is...and obviously that means i don't need it[19:29:16] <umccullough> see, what *you* need, is not what *I* need[19:29:28] <skar1> jej[19:29:30] <umccullough> thus, why should Haiku have everything everyone needs[19:29:35] <skar1> ok acid man[19:29:38] <umccullough> it should have whatever most people need ;)[19:30:15] <umccullough> i don't need flash/gnash either[19:30:21] <umccullough> useful, sure, but not needed[19:30:44] <skar1> need stability, for later need something like that ¿no?[19:30:51] <skar1> jajj[19:30:52] <umccullough> stability sounds like a good idea[19:31:02] <skar1> yep[19:31:11] <umccullough> all that other shit can just be a package i download and install if i want it[19:31:11] <skar1> is better tahn other idea[19:31:34] <umccullough> as long as I can find them and install them easily, i don't see an issue[19:32:36] <gordonjcp> 18:27 < umccullough> ditto with python - what OSes pre-package that?[19:32:43] <gordonjcp> umccullough: Linux, FreeBSD, and MacOS[19:32:50] <umccullough> os x?[19:32:52] <gordonjcp> off the top of my head[19:32:53] <gordonjcp> yes[19:32:53] <umccullough> seoriusly... why?[19:32:59] <umccullough> what on os x uses it?[19:33:09] <gordonjcp> about half the behind-the-scenes code[19:33:23] <umccullough> that's too bad, i thought they had their own stuff for that - carbon, etc.?[19:33:26] <gordonjcp> from what I can tell, anyway[19:33:32] <umccullough> i mean, i don't use OS X... so call me ignorant[19:33:36] <gordonjcp> presumably it's easier to do it in Python[19:33:39] <gordonjcp> I don't, either[19:33:48] <gordonjcp> I tried it but couldn't get used to the wibbly-wobbly GUI stuff[19:34:02] <umccullough> as for linux - i'm pretty sure many distros require you to install python separately[19:34:20] <gordonjcp> umccullough: seems to be installed by default on most sane modern distros[19:34:32] *** aurynn has joined #haiku[19:34:34] <umccullough> ok, i guess i haven't checked[19:34:48] <gordonjcp> umccullough: basically it seems to be replacing Perl for a lot of backend tasks[19:34:54] <umccullough> but ruby is still not required right?[19:34:59] <gordonjcp> (no bad thing, imnsho)[19:35:21] <umccullough> what about mono? is that required now as well?[19:35:23] <gordonjcp> ruby does not appear to be installed in a clean install of Ubuntu 9.04[19:35:38] <iMax_pp> umccullough: Ruby is packaged in OSX by default. :)[19:35:41] <gordonjcp> wouldn't know how to test for mono, throat swab possibly?[19:35:43] <umccullough> i remember hearing that a lot of the gnome guys were pro-mono[19:36:04] <gordonjcp> iMax_pp: not surprised that RoR is so popular with Mac-using web devs ;-)[19:36:15] <iMax_pp> indeed[19:36:38] <umccullough> I suppose it's no worse that microsoft pre-installing .net framework[19:36:52] <Rakhun> umccullough: some must have been, since tomboy (using mono) got into Gnome, but it seems to be in progress of being replaced with gnote[19:37:15] <gordonjcp> umccullough: well if huge swathes of your Desktop Cleverness uses .net or Python or Ruby, it's not massively surprising[19:37:48] <skar1> :p[19:37:50] <Rakhun> chances are pretty big though that microsoft will sue people for using their technology the next decade or so, when everyone uses it (or so they hope)[19:37:53] <adamk> gordonjcp: python is not in the base system for FreeBSD. It is required by many ports, so it's usually one of the first packages installed, but the base system does not depend on it.[19:37:54] <iMax_pp> In fact a lot of scipting langagues as packaged in OSX, such as Python, Perl, Ruby, Tcl.[19:37:58] <adamk> gordonjcp: Just FYI :-)[19:38:08] <gordonjcp> adamk: noted[19:38:21] *** aurynn has quit IRC[19:38:23] <adamk> They finally got perl out of there not too long ago, too.[19:38:24] <gordonjcp> tcl, ugh[19:38:27] <adamk> Thankfully.[19:38:50] <pfoetchen> more scripting languages would be cool if you could script the haiku gui with them...[19:38:51] *** korli has joined #haiku[19:38:55] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli[19:38:56] <umccullough> and don't get me wrong - i fully desire for all those development tools to be available *for* haiku, i just don't think it's useful to have them included in the base system at all[19:39:04] <gordonjcp> umccullough: no indeed[19:39:26] <adamk> pfoetchen: Python with the hey module can communicate with Haiku apps. At least it could under BeOS. Haven't tried Haiku.[19:39:34] <umccullough> python would be the closest to being useful, as there's a native bindings for BeOS called BeThon[19:39:37] <iMax_pp> gordonjcp: But I don't know if they're packaged natively or or included in the "Developer Tools". :-/[19:39:59] <gordonjcp> umccullough: while it would be nice to have every possible open-source program ported to Haiku, you don't want the base install set to be 30-odd CDs (coughDebiancough)[19:40:10] <umccullough> lol[19:40:15] <umccullough> i use debian net-install cd ;)[19:40:18] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[19:40:20] <umccullough> 180mb[19:40:23] <gordonjcp> yup[19:40:31] <gordonjcp> I just installed it on a spare Athon 1200[19:40:39] <umccullough> fedora core ain't no small thing either[19:40:45] *** andguent_ has joined #haiku[19:41:00] <gordonjcp> ... and promptly ganked the memory so Mrs Gordonjcp could install Mythbuntu on another machine that didn't have enough RAM[19:41:09] <gordonjcp> :-/[19:41:49] <gordonjcp> so my skunkworks server only has 128M now[19:42:27] <gordonjcp> (actually, it's got none at all, it's got a 128M simm taped to the top so I don't lose it[19:43:14] *** sugar3 has joined #haiku[19:44:14] <umccullough> :)[19:51:04] *** rennj has joined #haiku[19:51:04] *** rkbm_ has joined #haiku[19:51:04] *** UiX has joined #haiku[19:51:04] *** helf|laptop has joined #haiku[19:51:25] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[19:51:40] *** ziomatto has joined #haiku[19:52:46] *** ulterior_modem has joined #Haiku[19:53:39] *** Svarthandske has quit IRC[19:56:07] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[19:56:13] *** aguent has quit IRC[19:56:54] *** andguent_ is now known as andguent[20:02:08] *** johndrin1water has joined #haiku[20:04:20] *** oco has joined #haiku[20:09:37] *** sprma has joined #haiku[20:09:53] *** paul0 has joined #haiku[20:12:55] *** wtracy has joined #haiku[20:13:57] *** Negr0 has joined #haiku[20:16:55] *** wtracy has left #haiku[20:18:28] *** johndrinkwater has quit IRC[20:25:46] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[20:27:06] *** adamk has quit IRC[20:33:45] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[20:35:35] *** aljen has quit IRC[20:38:16] *** prOSy has joined #haiku[20:38:22] <prOSy> hi[20:38:58] *** aljen has joined #haiku[20:39:41] *** Barrett666_ has joined #haiku[20:39:53] *** procton_ has joined #haiku[20:40:51] *** procton has quit IRC[20:41:13] *** ZeroXp has joined #haiku[20:41:23] *** atomozero has joined #haiku[20:41:35] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[20:41:43] <ZeroXp> hello[20:42:02] *** ZeroXp has quit IRC[20:52:22] *** sugar3_ has joined #haiku[20:59:50] *** sprma has quit IRC[21:00:47] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[21:01:18] *** skar1 has left #haiku[21:08:30] <helf|laptop> does haiku plan on having composition and what not for the GUI?[21:09:42] *** ulterior_modem has quit IRC[21:10:30] *** ulterior_modem has joined #Haiku[21:12:41] *** sugar3 has quit IRC[21:13:07] * Gaap reconnect[21:13:41] *** sprma has joined #haiku[21:13:55] *** Gaap has quit IRC[21:15:09] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[21:17:00] *** tqh has joined #haiku[21:18:54] *** sugar3_ has quit IRC[21:20:15] *** szczur has joined #haiku[21:20:34] *** korli has quit IRC[21:21:48] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[21:24:21] *** ulterior_modem_ has joined #Haiku[21:25:39] *** korli has joined #haiku[21:25:39] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli[21:27:58] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[21:28:03] *** ulterior_modem has quit IRC[21:28:16] *** ziomatto has left #haiku[21:35:22] *** szczur has quit IRC[21:35:56] *** nibble has joined #haiku[21:36:53] *** aljen has quit IRC[21:42:08] *** markos_ has quit IRC[21:43:28] *** adamk has joined #haiku[21:48:27] *** tqh has quit IRC[21:56:15] <korli> pfoetchen: is the cross compiler supposed to build with arm arch ?[21:57:08] <pfoetchen> I wrote a patch so that it builds.. I will see if I can find it[21:59:24] <pfoetchen> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/3633 but I think I forgot some headers in this patch[21:59:28] *** DBAlex has quit IRC[21:59:39] *** sprma has quit IRC[22:00:47] <pfoetchen> so you need the headers from here: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/3763[22:01:07] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC[22:03:54] *** Gaap has joined #haiku[22:03:58] *** kirilla has joined #haiku[22:06:09] <kirilla> so what's up here tonight[22:06:17] *** VinDuv has quit IRC[22:06:30] *** ulterior_modem_ has quit IRC[22:07:18] *** aljen has joined #haiku[22:14:45] *** atomozero has quit IRC[22:16:18] * hackkitten drifts around~[22:23:44] *** ulterior_modem has joined #Haiku[22:25:05] <geist> not much, apparently[22:25:17] <kirilla> heh[22:25:38] <kirilla> I wonder how the GSoC mentoring goes.[22:25:48] <DeadYak> kirilla: GSoC doesn't officially start until end of this month[22:26:31] <PulkoMandy> well, coding that is... student are getting integrated to the community right now :)[22:27:39] <umccullough> I'm still waiting to hear if the arm port will be done with a beagleboard, gumstix, or ???[22:27:49] <helf|laptop> my god[22:27:52] <helf|laptop> that was a PITA[22:27:59] * helf|laptop finally got audio working in ubuntu[22:28:00] <stpere> oh I pita[22:28:04] <stpere> that would be good[22:28:07] * helf|laptop hates pulseaudio[22:28:12] <stpere> Haiku runs on pita now[22:28:18] <helf|laptop> pita bread rocks[22:28:22] <stpere> :)[22:28:35] <stpere> the guy ordered a mustard pita here[22:28:45] <stpere> he meant a "regular pita, with mustard"[22:28:49] <stpere> got quite a surprise :P[22:28:57] <helf|laptop> yeah, so the last step that was stumping me in getting my audio working was i had to change the owner of "audio" in /etc/groups to my username[22:29:01] <stpere> not here, but at the cafe[22:29:08] <helf|laptop> heh[22:29:33] <stpere> helf|laptop: you could have added you to some group[22:29:45] <stpere> oh wait[22:29:54] <stpere> that's just what you did :)[22:30:06] <stpere> adding your name in this file suscribe you to the groups[22:30:21] <helf|laptop> yeah[22:30:31] <umccullough> we wouldn't want unprivileged users hearing sound[22:30:36] <helf|laptop> apparently[22:30:45] <stpere> of course not! he could year propaganda :O[22:30:51] <stpere> hear*[22:30:59] <helf|laptop> i had to manually edit the /etc/modules file as well, so that the right sound driver was loaded on bootup[22:31:49] <CIA-15> korli * r30652 /buildtools/trunk/gcc/gcc/ (config/arm/haiku.h config.gcc):[22:31:49] <CIA-15> Applied patch for arm haiku target from Johannes Wischert (bug #3633)[22:31:49] <CIA-15> The cross tools build still needs the arm specific headers in Haiku to complete (bug #3763)[22:31:52] *** ulterior_modem_ has joined #Haiku[22:32:00] <CIA-15> zooey * r30653 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/zip/beos.c:[22:32:00] <CIA-15> Closing #3874:[22:32:00] <CIA-15> * fixed a couple of memory leaks in the BeOS-specific (attribute related)[22:32:00] <CIA-15> code of zip[22:32:04] <umccullough> woot[22:32:12] <stpere> yay!!![22:32:17] <umccullough> oh...double-woot[22:32:24] *** ulterior_modem_ has quit IRC[22:32:26] * umccullough goes to setup his haiku arm dev env[22:36:29] *** paul0 has quit IRC[22:36:40] * helf|laptop hopes haiku will run on a psion netbook someday[22:37:06] *** nibble has quit IRC[22:40:00] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[22:45:04] *** HaikuFan has quit IRC[22:46:47] <DeadYak> korli: are the headers in ticket 3763 incomplete, or should those get committed too?[22:47:22] <DeadYak> never mind, just looked at it[22:48:31] *** luroh has joined #haiku[22:49:04] <umccullough> at least the toolchain should compile ;)[22:49:13] *** Barrett666_ has quit IRC[22:49:36] *** kirilla has quit IRC[22:50:58] <sarmale> bwahahaha[22:51:06] <sarmale> hi[22:52:27] *** prOSy has quit IRC[22:57:10] *** korli has quit IRC[22:57:16] *** andreas_dr has joined #haiku[23:03:23] *** MindChild has quit IRC[23:07:04] *** szczur has joined #haiku[23:08:17] <PulkoMandy> +++[23:08:22] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:08:56] <szczur> hello[23:18:10] *** MindChild has joined #haiku[23:19:40] *** Carbamide has quit IRC[23:20:59] *** Mixerr has joined #haiku[23:22:52] *** iMax_pp has quit IRC[23:28:31] *** wackymacs_ has joined #haiku[23:29:21] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[23:36:18] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[23:41:17] *** Rakhun|away has joined #haiku[23:43:10] *** wackymacs_ has quit IRC[23:44:07] *** wackymacs has quit IRC[23:45:38] *** Rakhun has quit IRC[23:46:39] *** Rakhun|away is now known as Rakhun[23:49:11] *** Gaap has quit IRC[23:49:38] *** andguent has quit IRC[23:50:53] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[23:56:36] *** procton_ has quit IRC