April 29, 2008 
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April 29, 2008 [00:00:11] <rennj> FYI: old GeekGadgets for beos ftp://ftp.back2roots.org/pub/geekgadgets/be/[00:00:30] <rennj> i use to bitch all the mirrors where dead[00:00:50] *** Monni has joined #Haiku[00:01:20] <CIA-52> marcusoverhagen * r25231 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/media-add-ons/usb_vision/TunerLocale.h: fix build[00:03:24] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:06:49] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC[00:08:35] <rennj> going to try this sushi bar out tonight[00:08:50] *** stippi has quit IRC[00:09:19] <rennj> i feel bad for these people cause i think its a bad location to open place[00:09:26] <rennj> but who knows[00:10:44] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[00:11:06] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[00:13:38] <CIA-52> marcusoverhagen * r25232 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/media-add-ons/ (12 files in 7 dirs):[00:13:38] <CIA-52> Removed superflous NULL pointer checks.[00:13:38] <CIA-52> The media kit will always call BMediaNode[00:13:38] <CIA-52> and BMediaAddOn functions with valid pointers.[00:14:33] * DaaT pokes DeadYak[00:16:30] *** DaaT has quit IRC[00:16:44] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[00:22:50] *** petterhj- has quit IRC[00:23:38] *** slaad has joined #haiku[00:24:30] *** luroh has left #haiku[00:28:49] *** dr_Evil has quit IRC[00:29:08] *** __toddb__ has quit IRC[00:29:34] <Thom_Holwerda> http://www.osnews.com/story/19691/Fixing_the_Trash_Can:_Automated_Deletion_[00:29:37] <Thom_Holwerda> enjoy.[00:29:57] *** helf has quit IRC[00:30:36] <Thom_Holwerda> hah![00:31:02] <Thom_Holwerda> moving from xp to 2003 (after ditcing 2003 a while back) improves network performance siginificantly[00:31:06] <Thom_Holwerda> awesome.[00:34:03] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[00:34:04] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[00:35:20] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:35:47] *** dchis has quit IRC[00:36:32] *** urnenfeld has left #haiku[00:36:46] <DaaT> why not move to 2008? :)[00:37:19] *** pyCube has quit IRC[00:39:51] *** Monni has quit IRC[00:48:42] *** Monni has joined #Haiku[00:48:51] <rennj> Thom_Holwerda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZnEtoYlRiE[00:49:15] <rennj> olpc sugar UI with dbus/hald and their journal is certainly new[00:49:45] <rennj> collaborative UI and apps[00:50:10] <rennj> teacher and whole class using 802.11s/mesh and abiword to work on same documents[00:50:23] <rennj> or do csound/app with music[00:50:41] <rennj> you see those videos of kids playing music with olpc[00:51:07] <rennj> like a band of instruments[00:52:50] *** MYOB has left #haiku[01:00:32] <rennj> trashcans heh[01:00:45] <rennj> someone was asking for that on olpc i think, which makes no sense[01:00:55] <rennj> journal is your log/filemanger/record[01:01:21] <rennj> no bookmarking in browse activity[01:01:26] <rennj> journal keeps track of that[01:02:23] *** EuanK has left #haiku[01:07:02] *** cyrann has joined #haiku[01:09:01] *** wildur_ has quit IRC[01:11:46] *** {V} is now known as {V}afk[01:17:11] <rennj> need to rebuild my olpc kernel and add fuse so i can use backupfs and sshfs[01:17:24] <rennj> god fuse is nice[01:17:40] <rennj> i might actually dump nfs finally[01:17:45] <rennj> with sshfs being what it is[01:18:49] *** cyrann has quit IRC[01:21:25] <Kokito> Thom_Holwerda, the Xerox workstations used the trash can metaphor long before the Lisa :)[01:40:37] <AlienSoldier> PARC have always loved to put stuff in the trash, even promising technology[01:42:10] <rennj> doug engelbart videos from 60's are nuts[01:42:15] <rennj> hehe video camera's and stuff[01:42:20] <rennj> to do the remote desktops[01:42:45] <rennj> archive.org i think has all them[01:43:14] <rennj> wooden mouse heh[01:43:32] <rennj> SRI[01:44:09] <rennj> shit youtube has all that stuff[01:44:23] <rennj> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4kp9Ciy1nE[01:44:56] *** aljen has quit IRC[01:46:49] * DaaT pokes DeadYak[01:47:17] * DeadYak pokes DaaT[01:48:13] <DaaT> :P[01:51:55] *** cyrann has joined #haiku[01:53:07] <DaaT> Thom_Holwerda: just read your post at OSN[01:53:12] <DaaT> you need help...[01:53:18] <rennj> so when ever i see Xerox parc i think of doug engelbart and "NLS" system[01:54:11] <rennj> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLS_(computer_system)[01:58:09] *** cyrann has quit IRC[02:20:31] *** daste has quit IRC[02:30:30] <bryguy[lap]> poor Hans[02:42:50] *** stargater has quit IRC[02:47:10] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku[02:47:12] <ddew|bofh> hiya[02:48:27] * DeadYak pets ddew|bofh[02:50:05] <ddew|bofh> gah, i hate handbrake's jamfile[02:50:51] <ddew|bofh> it downloads extra crap and runs an automagic configure on them. meaning i'll have to patch tons of added autotools stuff[02:51:17] <DeadYak> ouch[02:51:21] <ddew|bofh> indeed[02:51:38] <ddew|bofh> here's to hoping that they don't check the md5sum on the archives[02:52:46] *** eightbit has joined #haiku[02:53:22] <eightbit> anyone successfully compile haiku with Mandiva 2008?[02:53:47] *** ozy` has joined #haiku[02:53:48] <ddew|bofh> aw man, this is annoying. i was absolutely sure that a recent version had been updated and added to the dev-package[02:54:01] <DeadYak> umccullough: thanks for adding me to the CC there[02:54:06] * ddew|bofh is _not_ looking forward to handpatching tons of files[02:55:05] <ddew|bofh> *recent version of autotools[02:57:32] <ddew|bofh> heh, "oops"[02:57:50] <ddew|bofh> ah well, atleast i discovered the command "autoreconf --force" :P[02:59:52] *** umccullough_w has joined #haiku[03:00:23] <umccullough_w> DeadYak, i knew it was possibly a long shot, but since the question of gcc4 hadn't been asked, i figured it was worth noting :)[03:00:47] <DeadYak> well, in all fairness[03:00:53] <DeadYak> I also can't equalize the config by putting myself on VGA[03:01:02] <DeadYak> since I have no DVI->VGA adapter handy[03:01:06] <umccullough_w> ah[03:01:22] <umccullough_w> I'll test it tonight if I can - my beos/haiku box that i used to run has the same card[03:01:27] <umccullough_w> using VGA[03:01:36] <umccullough_w> but i can't build gcc4 on it[03:01:59] <DeadYak> no?[03:02:50] <umccullough_w> well, it doesn't have linux on it[03:03:10] <umccullough_w> so, unless the gcc4 crosscompiler is available for beos (which I saw BGA mention before) ...[03:03:22] <umccullough_w> or, i can throw another disk in and put linux on it i spos[03:03:23] <umccullough_w> spose[03:03:42] <umccullough_w> yeah, i'll do that - I think i've got an extra 20gb disk[03:04:03] <stpere> I think my boss/partner is inflating the invoices I'm sending to my clients[03:04:08] <stpere> that's very bad[03:04:11] <umccullough_w> stpere, that's a common thing[03:04:29] <umccullough_w> i mean, assuming he's your boss more than your partner :P[03:04:34] <stpere> yes[03:04:38] <DeadYak> umccullough_w: --build-cross-tools-gcc4 should work on beos too afaik[03:04:39] <ddew|bofh> it's called capitalism :P[03:04:48] <stpere> and I'm the one getting the calls at home[03:04:53] <stpere> grrr[03:05:00] <umccullough_w> stpere, you mean you're getting complaints about the costs?[03:05:05] <stpere> yes[03:05:06] <umccullough_w> ouch[03:05:23] <stpere> and the amounts they give me are obviously off the mark[03:05:28] <stpere> of what I charged[03:05:34] <umccullough_w> basically, when i do "billable" work for my company's customers - the amount billed to them is substantially higher than what i get paid :)[03:05:39] <umccullough_w> but i'm salaried, so that makes sense[03:05:44] <stpere> I'm not![03:05:45] <stpere> :)[03:05:47] <umccullough_w> :)[03:05:48] <DeadYak> umccullough_w: ditto[03:06:00] <umccullough_w> still, if you're consulting, that's what you get paid, regardless of what your company bills the customer :P[03:06:01] <DeadYak> umccullough_w: we bill like $90/h, I make a fraction of that[03:06:07] <stpere> I'm supposed to receive 75% of what was billed to client[03:06:12] <umccullough_w> DeadYak, we bill more than twice that IIRC ;)[03:06:17] <stpere> and I get the call on the time amount that was requested[03:06:33] <stpere> something is fucked up here[03:06:53] <umccullough_w> stpere, yeah, if you get a certain percentage, but you aren't, then you've got a problem :P[03:06:54] <stpere> somehow, my 1:45 job inflated to 3:45[03:07:09] <DeadYak> time to talk to someone...[03:07:12] <stpere> yup[03:07:23] * DeadYak hands stpere the trout[03:07:28] <stpere> haha[03:07:40] <stpere> of course my client complains[03:07:47] <stpere> I understand perfectly[03:07:54] <eightbit> noone using mandriva?[03:08:06] <stpere> and I was the one doing the job, so she thinks I'm the one who charges that[03:08:13] *** aljen has joined #haiku[03:08:14] <stpere> anyway :P[03:08:17] <aljen> hey[03:08:21] <umccullough_w> yeah, there's a certain amount of morality involved there[03:08:41] <umccullough_w> especially when it's inflated by the actualy time rather than $/hour[03:08:48] <stpere> yes, exactly[03:08:49] <umccullough_w> er, whatever currency you use ;)[03:08:56] <stpere> so, I look like I'm working bad[03:08:59] <umccullough_w> yep[03:09:04] <DeadYak> in his case I assume $CAD[03:09:05] <umccullough_w> that's no fun[03:09:11] <stpere> they charged for me 35 minutes to add a simple link to a simple web page[03:09:17] <umccullough_w> lol[03:09:24] <umccullough_w> i know my company has a "minimum amount"[03:09:38] <stpere> when I've charged 15 minutes, which I considered bad enough :)[03:09:39] <umccullough_w> so, something that takes 15 mins can be billed at the smallest increment anyway[03:10:03] <DeadYak> stpere: like I said, time to troutslap your partner[03:10:10] <stpere> definitely[03:10:28] <stpere> and an other time, they invented an invoice[03:10:35] <stpere> I did no job, charged nothing[03:10:39] <stpere> client got an invoice[03:10:54] <stpere> for web stuff, which I'm the only one to do in the shop[03:10:57] <stpere> so..[03:11:12] <stpere> man, I hate this job[03:11:20] <DeadYak> time to find another?[03:11:23] <stpere> yes[03:11:33] <stpere> if it confirms to be true[03:11:40] <stpere> which I'm almost certain it is[03:12:05] <DeadYak> if it's happened on so many occasions, I'd kind of doubt "invoicing system error"[03:16:12] <umccullough_w> that would be a convenient excuse ;)[03:16:21] <stpere> erm[03:16:28] <stpere> that's the badest![03:16:33] <stpere> I asked details to that client[03:16:52] <stpere> she was billed 4,125 hours[03:17:00] <stpere> for what I billed at 1 hour[03:17:05] <umccullough_w> wtf?[03:17:25] <stpere> at 40$/hour, it makes a difference[03:17:27] <umccullough_w> that's like over 2 man years :P[03:17:37] <umccullough_w> oh wait[03:17:43] <umccullough_w> you mean 4 1/8 hours?[03:17:44] <stpere> 4.125[03:17:46] <stpere> :)[03:17:47] <umccullough_w> :)[03:17:57] <umccullough_w> funny[03:17:58] <stpere> still[03:18:05] <umccullough_w> yeah, over 4 times the cost...bad[03:18:45] <umccullough_w> on the other hand, you have the opportunity to apply pressure back to your partner and actually see some of that money ;)[03:18:53] <umccullough_w> depends on how honest you feel like being[03:19:16] <DeadYak> umccullough_w: more likely the client will simply refuse to pay such an inflated invoice[03:19:27] <umccullough_w> possibly - depends on how long it's been going on[03:19:29] <stpere> she did pay[03:19:35] <DeadYak> oh[03:19:36] <stpere> it was last september[03:19:45] <stpere> I just realized that evil scheme[03:19:54] <stpere> or absolute incompetence :)[03:20:03] <umccullough_w> and so now, you can call all the clients, ask them for copies of the invoices, compare to your copies... etc.[03:20:11] <stpere> yes[03:20:15] <stpere> I think I should[03:20:16] <umccullough_w> take the evidence to your partner and demand recourse[03:20:43] *** eightbit has left #haiku[03:21:15] <stpere> 165.06 rather than a bit over 40[03:21:16] <stpere> sigh[03:21:53] <umccullough_w> sounds nefarious to me :P[03:22:00] <stpere> hehe[03:23:27] <umccullough_w> oh, btw - this is a logged channel in case you didn't know :)[03:24:40] <stpere> oh shit :)[03:24:46] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25233 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/debug/ (blue_screen.cpp blue_screen.h debug.cpp): Ctrl-L clears the KDL screen.[03:25:05] <stpere> well, I'm a very courageous whistleblower :)[03:25:24] <umccullough_w> http://www.google.com/search?q=stpere+confused[03:25:27] <umccullough_w> :)[03:25:56] <ddew|bofh> heh, i love the internets[03:26:01] <stpere> oh great :)[03:26:03] <umccullough_w> and they love you ;)[03:26:37] <ddew|bofh> a tv program finished airing less than 5 minutes ago and already i'm watching it in hd :)[03:26:46] <umccullough_w> i'm sure in a few days "stpere+partner" will yield the above discussion :D[03:26:54] <ddew|bofh> as opposed to having to wait for 3 years until it _maybe_ shows up here[03:27:07] *** DaaT has quit IRC[03:27:10] <stpere> hurry, polute the stuff :)[03:27:25] <stpere> my partner is great, did I said it?[03:27:38] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[03:27:39] <stpere> partner and I will go far[03:27:47] <DeadYak> stpere:sounds like soon to be ex-partner[03:28:29] <stpere> yeah[03:28:39] <ddew|bofh> sounds like a grade A douche[03:28:40] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[03:28:52] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[03:29:01] <umccullough_w> that's 'k - i'm just waiting for the day that someone decides to google "umccullough"[03:29:05] <umccullough_w> boy won't that be fun[03:29:08] <DeadYak> haha[03:29:14] <ddew|bofh> hehe[03:29:14] <umccullough_w> my wife would have a heyday ;)[03:29:19] <DeadYak> haha[03:29:24] <DeadYak> :P[03:31:19] <umccullough_w> but hey - there's a point where you've created so much data about yourself on the internet, that it's impossible to dig through it all ;)[03:32:39] <umccullough_w> at least i don't use "umccullough" for my slashdot comments :P[03:33:07] <pyCube_> i can probably count my slashdot visits on one hand[03:33:16] <umccullough_w> visits?[03:33:27] <DeadYak> the last time I was at slashdot was years ago[03:33:27] <umccullough_w> i can maybe count my slashdot comments on two hands[03:33:30] <DeadYak> I hate that site[03:33:42] <umccullough_w> i check it once every couple days just for fun[03:33:56] <umccullough_w> sometimes there's interesting stuff, and some comments make my chuckle ;)[03:34:00] *** DaaT has quit IRC[03:35:01] <umccullough_w> oh shit... hans reiser was found guilty[03:35:11] <umccullough_w> see, slashdot has important stuff :P[03:35:42] <DeadYak> I saw that on google news like 2 hours ago[03:35:49] <ddew|bofh> so, is anyone surprised by that judgement? :)[03:35:51] <umccullough_w> heh[03:35:56] <umccullough_w> not really[03:41:32] *** mmadia has quit IRC[03:42:49] <umccullough_w> well, time to go home at a reasonable hour[03:42:52] <umccullough_w> ttyl[03:42:57] *** umccullough_w has quit IRC[03:51:12] *** anarchos has quit IRC[03:52:32] *** licksjp has quit IRC[03:54:19] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[03:55:40] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[03:58:29] <anarchos> whos hans reiser, the guy who made reiserfs? :P[03:58:38] <DeadYak> yes[03:58:46] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[03:58:58] <anarchos> oh shit just read the wikipedia on him[03:59:07] <anarchos> haha, i must be psychic :P[04:00:19] <ddew|bofh> it's disturbing how every reiserfs geek in the area jumps to his defense[04:03:18] <geist> HES INNOCENT MAN HE DIDNT DO IT YOU MEANIE[04:03:25] <geist> HES A CARING LOVING GUY[04:03:28] <pyCube_> would it also disturb you if somebody refused to use the fs becasue of hans?[04:03:55] <ddew|bofh> of course, technical merit has nothing to do with it's creator[04:04:15] <ddew|bofh> hell, using that logic we wouldn't be researching genetics[04:04:31] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: why, what did Watson and Crick do to anybody?[04:04:39] <stpere> night[04:04:40] <geist> it does, reiserfs is closer to god because his creator is godly[04:04:41] <DeadYak> assuming I have their names right[04:04:44] <geist> HES SO HAWT[04:04:50] <ddew|bofh> heh[04:05:21] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: it can be argued that genetics has parts of foundation within eugenics[04:05:42] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: how're you defining genetics here?[04:06:14] <ddew|bofh> layman terms really, what genes are and how the function etc[04:06:25] <DeadYak> isn't that more like, fundamental basics of biology?[04:06:31] <DeadYak> eugenics would imply more genetic enhancement/engineering[04:06:42] <geist> yes, to become more like hans reiser[04:06:47] <geist> being that he is god[04:06:52] <ddew|bofh> like i said, it can be argued. :)[04:06:55] * DeadYak trouts geist[04:06:57] <pyCube_> i was once accused of being a nazi because i refused to despise all thing richard wagner[04:07:11] <pyCube_> all things[04:07:25] <geist> all false idols next to hans reiser[04:07:38] <DeadYak> how could you not like Ride of the Valkyries?[04:07:56] <pyCube_> 'kill da wabbit..'[04:08:14] <ddew|bofh> kneejerk reactions to him being one of the inspirations of naziism i suppose[04:08:56] <geist> that's what happens when you stray from Hans[04:09:08] <geist> come unto Hans and he will show you the way[04:09:10] <pyCube_> kneejerk reaction to their f'ing inbred dipshit brains[04:09:36] <ddew|bofh> people are stupid about a lot of things, get used to it :)[04:10:39] <pyCube_> i grew up in rural usa.. i am quite used to idjits[04:12:13] <AlexForster> does anyone know how g++'s ldscripts are used?[04:12:23] <pyCube_> but every once in a while someting stunning like the wagner incident occurs[04:12:52] <cps1966> reiser is guilty[04:13:23] <AlexForster> ![04:14:19] <pyCube_> my reiserfs killed my xfs[04:14:51] <AlexForster> i wonder if they'll give him a laptop in jail[04:15:01] <AlexForster> they should, such a waste of a skill[04:15:55] <geist> aint no jail gonna hold Hans[04:16:18] <pyCube_> they should dip him in bronze[04:16:36] <pyCube_> er, whatever starwarsite that was[04:16:41] <geist> he would become more powerful than you can ever imagine[04:20:37] *** ari-linux has joined #haiku[04:22:39] *** anarchos has quit IRC[04:26:02] *** ProN00b has quit IRC[04:27:01] *** ProN00b has joined #haiku[04:32:19] *** cyrann has joined #haiku[04:34:22] *** SirBob1701 has joined #haiku[04:34:45] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[04:39:08] *** AlexForster has quit IRC[04:50:56] *** SirBob1701 has quit IRC[05:06:07] *** absabs has joined #haiku[05:07:42] * umccullough prepares to test ps2 driver changes[05:15:36] <umccullough> yay![05:17:00] <Kokito> what?[05:18:05] <umccullough> marcus fixed #1625 and #2171[05:18:13] <umccullough> PS2 mouse issues with the scroll wheel[05:18:27] <Kokito> cool[05:18:39] <ddew|bofh> the one where it started scrolling left and right occasionally?[05:18:42] <umccullough> yeah[05:18:49] <ddew|bofh> ah, nice[05:18:55] <umccullough> yeah, it was quite obnoxious[05:19:02] <umccullough> i didn't realize it was a PS2 issue :P[05:19:30] <umccullough> also made firefox jump forward/backward in the browse history :P[05:19:44] <umccullough> which was extremely nasty when scrolling the page[05:19:48] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i've seen that bug on beos and linux as well[05:19:58] <umccullough> really? i haven't[05:20:08] <ddew|bofh> annoying to no end if you're scrolling through a huge page[05:20:15] <umccullough> if you hold shift while scrolling witht he wheel - that's the default behavior of firefox[05:20:49] <umccullough> in the case of haiku - the bug was that it was misinterpreting the vertical wheel scroll as a horizontal wheel scroll for some reason[05:20:57] <umccullough> i've never even seen a mouse with a horizontal wheel :P[05:21:02] <umccullough> sounds horrible[05:21:07] <ddew|bofh> i have[05:21:10] <umccullough> nasty[05:21:23] <umccullough> so marcus disabled the horizontal wheel support for now[05:21:24] <DeadYak> I hadn't encountered that on my mouse before[05:21:31] <ddew|bofh> and i have side-scrolling on my other mouse as well, albeit not as a wheel[05:21:32] <umccullough> DeadYak, didn't affect USB...[05:21:36] <umccullough> in case that's what you use[05:21:37] <DeadYak> PS2 here[05:21:40] <umccullough> weird[05:21:41] <DeadYak> my USB is unsupported[05:21:44] <umccullough> it certainly affected mine[05:21:47] <DeadYak> my mouse doesn't have h-scroll though[05:21:47] <umccullough> on multiple machines[05:21:53] <umccullough> neither does mine[05:22:04] <umccullough> but several people reported it affecting their vertical scroll behavior[05:22:12] <umccullough> probably just a bad message that wasn't interpreted right[05:22:17] <DeadYak> I'm not remembering having noticed that here offhand[05:22:27] <DeadYak> but I haven't really done anything on Haiku that requires heavy scrolling[05:22:36] <umccullough> i've been noticing it for over a year, but just assumed it was my KVM or something[05:22:56] <umccullough> anyhow, there were only a couple scenarios that it affected[05:23:12] <umccullough> anything with both a horizontal and vertical scroll bar would sometimes scroll sideways if you scrolled too quickly[05:23:24] <ddew|bofh> like tracker[05:23:27] <umccullough> and firefox would actually shift foward/backward in the browse history if you scrolled too quickly[05:23:42] <DeadYak> ah[05:24:06] <umccullough> i also saw it in ShowImage on haiku when I zoomed in on an image[05:24:40] <umccullough> anyhow, i'm glad it's "fixed" :)[05:25:00] <ddew|bofh> workarounds ftw :P[05:26:36] *** HaikuwareUser has joined #Haiku[05:28:22] *** HaikuwareUser is now known as cody[05:28:40] <umccullough> it's been "attack of the HaikuwareUser"s lately[05:28:52] <umccullough> might as well be binky's[05:28:53] <ddew|bofh> thanks senryu for that[05:28:58] <ddew|bofh> *thank[05:31:42] *** cody has quit IRC[05:32:34] *** umccullough_h has joined #haiku[05:32:41] <umccullough_h> haiku on a pii 450 :)[05:32:51] <umccullough_h> 1600x1200 is a bit slow in VESA mode :P[05:33:30] <umccullough_h> but otherwise, it's pretty responsive[05:33:38] <absabs> DeadYak, is you USB host is OHCI?:P[05:37:44] <CIA-52> leavengood * r25234 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/mediaplayer/ (MainWin.cpp MainWin.h):[05:37:44] <CIA-52> Fix for #676, an oldie (from 2 years ago): if the MediaPlayer window is moved[05:37:44] <CIA-52> off the screen at all, it will be moved back on when the window is activated.[05:37:44] <CIA-52> I almost think this might be a reasonable default implementation for[05:37:44] <CIA-52> WindowActivated in BWindow :)[05:38:22] <umccullough_h> wow, RobinHood installs directly without problems on Haiku :)[05:38:33] <umccullough_h> i used to have to copy it from an R5 partition[05:41:14] *** leavengood has joined #haiku[05:41:20] <umccullough> hi leavengood[05:41:25] <leavengood> yay for ancient bug fixing[05:41:34] <leavengood> hey umccullough[05:41:52] <umccullough_h> :)[05:42:05] <leavengood> dueling umccullough's?[05:42:22] <umccullough_h> yeah, setting up my haiku webserver again[05:42:33] <umccullough_h> how do you set the mimetype of a file to text/html ?[05:43:51] <leavengood> hmmm[05:44:12] <umccullough_h> oh duh[05:44:17] <leavengood> mimeset comes to mind, but looking at it, not sure[05:44:19] <umccullough_h> right-click, addons, Filetypes[05:44:24] <leavengood> heh[05:44:25] <umccullough_h> mimeset doesn't allow you to change it[05:44:33] <leavengood> there is probably a terminal way too[05:44:54] <umccullough> now to open the port on my firewall :)[05:45:25] <leavengood> why you doing such crazyness[05:45:29] <umccullough> oh yeah, i still need to updat emy linksys to dd-wrt[05:45:40] * DeadYak pets leavengood[05:45:41] <umccullough> leavengood, i ran it before like a year or two ago[05:45:48] <DeadYak> mine's running dd-wrt[05:45:50] <umccullough> could keep it running for like 8-12 hours at a time[05:46:39] <umccullough> CRAP[05:46:50] <DeadYak> what?[05:46:51] <umccullough> stupid linksys software doesn't allow the private port to be different than the public port[05:46:55] <umccullough> lame[05:46:56] <DeadYak> ah[05:47:02] <leavengood> hey DeadYak[05:47:22] <umccullough> guess i'll change the port on robinhood if possible[05:47:29] <leavengood> yeah that is annoying, we have a LinkSys at work[05:47:44] <leavengood> I put in my notice at work today[05:47:47] <leavengood> last day is May 9[05:47:51] <DeadYak> leavengood: oh? what's next?[05:47:55] <leavengood> should have more time for Haiku stuff[05:48:03] <leavengood> lots of time off, some consulting eventually[05:48:09] <DeadYak> yay[05:48:16] <leavengood> the boss was surprisingly cool about it all[05:48:29] *** umccullough_h has quit IRC[05:48:35] <leavengood> uh oh[05:48:37] <umccullough> no reason to run vision on my webserver ;)[05:48:42] <leavengood> hehe[05:48:49] <leavengood> figured it el CRASHED[05:49:42] <leavengood> Trac.......SO.................SLOW............................[05:49:53] <DeadYak> leavengood: if it had crashed you wouldn't have seen a normal quit message[05:50:06] <DeadYak> just "Remote closed the connection" or "Connection reset by peer" or whatnot[05:50:13] <leavengood> ah[05:50:23] <umccullough> http://binarychicken.com:575/[05:50:25] <umccullough> does that work?[05:50:37] <leavengood> I guess the "i've been blurred" should have clued me in[05:50:52] *** rennj-beos has quit IRC[05:50:59] <DeadYak> indeed.[05:50:59] * leavengood grumbles as clicking the link SLOWLY opens Firefox[05:51:02] <rennj-amiga> hehe[05:51:06] * leavengood has been using Opera lately[05:51:06] <rennj-amiga> like that[05:51:15] <DeadYak> Trac's been ridiculously slow of late[05:51:22] <DeadYak> rennj-amiga: heh, wow, didn't even realize you were in that[05:51:22] *** rennj-beos has joined #haiku[05:51:45] <leavengood> umccullough: seems slow[05:51:50] <umccullough> leavengood, might not work[05:51:53] <leavengood> maybe cause we are all loading it, hehe[05:52:23] <leavengood> does not seem to work[05:52:25] <DeadYak> I'm not[05:52:28] <umccullough> doesn't work for me through my own firewall[05:52:58] * umccullough curses at linksys[05:53:02] <umccullough> ok, i'll fix it in a bit[05:53:27] <rennj-amiga> this amiga3.9/e-uae is pretty stable box[05:53:32] <DeadYak> nice.[05:53:35] <DeadYak> real amiga?[05:53:38] <DeadYak> oh[05:53:39] <rennj-amiga> wookiechat though i had to use old version[05:53:39] <DeadYak> e-uae[05:53:47] <rennj-amiga> yeah better mouse[05:53:54] <rennj-amiga> 1200x900 uaegfx to[05:53:59] <rennj-amiga> so picasso96 is nice[05:54:05] <rennj-amiga> err[05:54:27] <rennj-amiga> 1280x800[05:54:39] <rennj-amiga> im thinking of olpc xo-1 laptop again[05:55:11] <rennj-amiga> libsdl,alsa to[05:55:24] <rennj-amiga> i have latest uae and e-uae[05:57:22] <DeadYak> nice[05:57:37] <rennj-amiga> anyway basic box right now just wookiechat 2.5 for irc[05:57:42] <rennj-amiga> newscoaster for usenet[05:57:45] <rennj-amiga> Aweb for web[05:57:57] <rennj-amiga> finalwriter cause its freebe[05:58:14] <rennj-amiga> i use to have nice setup[05:58:22] <rennj-amiga> vnc,geekgadgets,x11[05:58:23] <rennj-amiga> nfs[05:58:43] <rennj-amiga> i still have backup of the harddrive but its for amithlon on x86[05:59:13] *** shackan has quit IRC[06:00:33] <rennj> DeadYak: got burned on amithlon[06:00:43] <DeadYak> oh?[06:00:46] <rennj> 140.00 bucks for it and it was dead like first month[06:00:59] <DeadYak> ah, never knew that was commercial[06:01:00] <rennj> amithlon was linux kernel/uae jit env[06:01:06] <rennj> yeah amigaXL[06:01:11] <rennj> qnx and amithlon[06:01:18] <anarchos> anyone have a bebox they wanna sell? :)[06:01:18] <rennj> amigaxl was qnx/uae[06:01:31] <rennj> amithlon was baremetal linux/uae/jit[06:01:33] <DeadYak> mine aren't for sale sorry[06:01:45] <anarchos> for gifting? ;)[06:01:50] <anarchos> jk[06:03:37] <umccullough> leavengood, does that url work now?[06:03:45] <umccullough> seems to be working for me now and I didn't even do anything :P[06:04:35] <leavengood> yeah it works[06:04:40] <umccullough> cool[06:04:46] <umccullough> now i should setup a stat counter on it ;)[06:05:02] <rennj-beos> DeadYak it was commercial for about a month[06:07:24] <rennj> well several months[06:07:36] <rennj> http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/emulators/amithlon.html[06:08:06] <DeadYak> ah[06:08:28] <leavengood> crazy Amigans...why would you use anything not Linux, Mac or Windows?[06:08:31] <leavengood> :P[06:08:39] <rennj> it 140.00 bucks you got 2 versions of os3.9 68k, and 2 other os's qnx and linux bascially[06:08:51] <rennj> one one cdrom of course[06:08:59] <pyCube_> mmmmiga[06:12:25] <rennj-amiga> the reason i have this is for just such devices like olpc xo-1[06:12:30] <rennj-amiga> 256MB of ram[06:12:41] <rennj-amiga> this os3.9 image is 50MB of drive space[06:12:54] <rennj-amiga> and can run in 4-16MB of ram[06:14:27] <rennj-amiga> and it can do screen resultion on olpc xo-1 that xorg cant[06:14:40] <rennj-amiga> xorg on olpc is fixed at 1200x900 really[06:14:47] <rennj-amiga> then its just dpi fucking[06:15:02] <rennj-amiga> hmmm i need to check that tho[06:15:25] <rennj-amiga> i know xrandr had more video options, need to check xdpyinfo and stuff[06:18:23] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku[06:19:18] <MichaelHenry> DeadYak?[06:19:23] <DeadYak> ?[06:20:11] <MichaelHenry> I noticed the nightly image of Haiku built with GCC 4. Will it run Beos apps?\[06:22:43] <leavengood> MichaelHenry: I don't think so yet[06:23:03] <Kokito> hi leavengood :)[06:23:06] <pyCube_> my zaurus had a little launcher thingy that allowed you run run old apps compiled with old gcc[06:23:07] <leavengood> for that to work we need a special runtime_loader and GCC2 copies of all the core libs[06:23:15] <leavengood> key Kokito[06:23:30] <pyCube_> isnt that possible for haiku?[06:23:41] <leavengood> see above[06:23:43] <MichaelHenry> whew, thought I was going crazy[06:23:53] <rennj-amiga> leavengood i have emulation out the ass here[06:23:55] <MichaelHenry> I dual boot with the image[06:24:06] <MichaelHenry> couldn't run anything[06:24:08] <Kokito> time to rot my brain a bit in front of the TV[06:24:12] <Kokito> bbl[06:24:13] <rennj-amiga> solaris,fbsd,linux,beos,amiga,windowxp[06:24:24] <MichaelHenry> saw it tonite and figured I would ask....[06:24:24] <leavengood> rennj-amiga: hehe, cool[06:24:25] <rennj-amiga> i can run about 4 vm's and 1 host os[06:24:30] <rennj-amiga> this is amiga[06:24:35] <rennj-beos> beos[06:24:44] <rennj> fbsd[06:24:47] <MichaelHenry> you have an amiga 4.0 image[06:24:50] <rennj> no[06:24:52] <rennj> os3.9[06:24:57] <MichaelHenry> ahh[06:25:00] <rennj> async workbench thow[06:25:06] <rennj> and its clean os3.9[06:25:11] <MichaelHenry> where can you buy that?[06:25:20] <rennj> not some amikit,amigasys,aiab[06:25:52] <umccullough> 3[06:25:54] <umccullough> doh[06:26:20] <rennj> vmware runs most of my stuff[06:26:28] <rennj> only amiga is uae[06:26:59] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny UDP 0.0.0.0:68 255.255.255.255:67 in via em0[06:27:00] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny ICMP:8.0 192.168.253.254 192.168.253.133 in via em0[06:27:00] <rennj> ipfw: 65435 Deny UDP 0.0.0.0:68 255.255.255.255:67 in via em0[06:27:08] <rennj> every time i turn on winXP vm[06:27:12] <rennj> hehe[06:27:47] <rennj> bootps 67/tcp dhcps #Bootstrap Protocol Server[06:27:52] <rennj> winxp dhcp does that[06:28:01] <rennj> i turned off all the other crap[06:28:20] <rennj> but it still wacks the network on boot looking for 67[06:28:32] <ddew|bofh> heh, living across the street from the towns best bakery rocks :D[06:28:33] <rennj> solaris,fbsd,linux firewalls would all get wacked[06:29:11] <rennj> xp vm is nice to have to isolate shit[06:29:12] <DeadYak> wait, the build factory image is gcc4? news to me[06:30:14] <umccullough> what's the HTTP command to get web server info?[06:30:19] <umccullough> guess i can google that :P[06:30:42] <rennj> telnet[06:30:43] <rennj> hehe[06:30:54] <umccullough> yeah, i'm using telnet ;)[06:31:02] <umccullough> actually, is there a good site that will obtain http server info?[06:31:11] <umccullough> the one i found doesn't allow port other than 80 :([06:35:06] <MichaelHenry> DeadYak: Build Factory at the bottom right in machine specs[06:35:36] <umccullough> ah, a simple GET / HTTP/1.1 returns some stuff[06:35:42] <MichaelHenry> GCC Version: 4.1.3 20070929 (prerelease) (Ubuntu 4.1.2-16ubuntu2)[06:36:00] <umccullough> that's just the host compiler version[06:36:02] <DeadYak> ah[06:36:22] <DeadYak> yeah, that's not the same rev as Haiku's gcc4[06:36:22] <umccullough> the build factory should definitely be gcc2[06:36:28] <DeadYak> I'm 99% positive it is[06:36:33] <DeadYak> Kokito uses it and he runs things like Firefox[06:36:57] <umccullough> in fact, that would even violate the "haiku distribution guidelines" ;)[06:36:59] <MichaelHenry> So it SHOULD run some beos apps[06:37:09] <umccullough> where it states that all Haiku compatibility distributions must be gcc2 based[06:37:57] <DeadYak> MichaelHenry: it should run a good number of them[06:38:00] <umccullough> it runs a ton[06:38:12] * umccullough pets his haiku webserver[06:38:19] <MichaelHenry> good just freaking for a sec[06:38:29] <MichaelHenry> you are running a webserver?[06:38:33] <rennj-beos> gobe productive and adamation personal studio[06:38:33] <umccullough> so, clearly i need to actually put something reasonable on my haiku webserver :)[06:38:51] <umccullough> http://binarychicken.com:575[06:38:56] <MichaelHenry> what webserver?[06:39:09] <rennj-beos> haha the hood[06:39:16] <MichaelHenry> software[06:39:25] <MichaelHenry> nevermind[06:39:28] <MichaelHenry> :D[06:39:39] <rennj-beos> see my log[06:39:40] <DeadYak> umccullough: http://8325.org/haiku/[06:39:42] <rennj-beos> netpostive[06:39:43] <DeadYak> that![06:39:52] <rennj-beos> umccullough[06:39:55] <MichaelHenry> kinda bare ain't it umccullough?[06:39:58] <umccullough> oooh[06:40:13] <umccullough> well, it's been running for like ... since right before you started talking[06:40:37] <umccullough> and i've been up and around the house for the last 30 minutes doing stuff... so i haven't done more than put google analytics javascript on it yet[06:40:45] <MichaelHenry> lol[06:40:53] <MichaelHenry> now you need phpnuke[06:41:04] <MichaelHenry> and we can get a real site :D[06:41:11] <umccullough> well, i could install apache 2.x and php i spose[06:41:15] <leavengood> hmmm, the Haiku distro guidelines say it must be GCC2, eh?[06:41:30] <umccullough> no mysql[06:41:34] <umccullough> leavengood, sure do[06:41:35] * leavengood starts planning his GCC4 "this is not a Haiku distro" distro so people can run his web browser[06:41:49] *** anarchos has quit IRC[06:41:52] <umccullough> leavengood, the guidelines can be changed if necessary ;)[06:41:52] <MichaelHenry> postgre[06:42:01] <MichaelHenry> the webserver kit on beshare[06:42:18] <MichaelHenry> has apache, php, postgre and something else[06:42:19] <umccullough> if i'm feeling brave - i'll grab that stuff later[06:42:32] <umccullough> right now robinhood works ;)[06:42:38] <leavengood> well we shall see once I have a decently working web browser in a few months or so[06:42:39] <MichaelHenry> though php on bebits is newer[06:43:01] <MichaelHenry> yeah, but it will only work on R2 thou[06:43:02] <umccullough> leavengood, still need to work on that gcc2 lib thing of course[06:43:23] <MichaelHenry> now you make me droll more ryan[06:43:39] <MichaelHenry> shame on you[06:44:03] <ddew|bofh> gcc2 lib thing? as in a compatibility layer for the gcc4 builds?[06:44:18] <umccullough> DeadYak, i should maybe write some javascript to throw a random haiku - excpet i don't know javascript :P[06:44:27] * leavengood thinks GCC2 compat is no longer needed[06:44:31] <leavengood> it is just for pride now[06:44:33] <umccullough> or, can you setup robinhood with a random haiku 404?[06:44:52] <umccullough> leavengood, make sure you get me that robinhood compiled for gcc4 ;)[06:45:00] <rennj-beos> poorman![06:45:11] <MichaelHenry> i agree with the GCC2 compat, but right now.............[06:45:19] <MichaelHenry> unfortunately.....[06:45:23] <leavengood> we should get the Robinhood code then[06:45:25] <rennj-beos> poorman use to serve up my beos webcam[06:45:29] <MichaelHenry> nah apache[06:45:40] <umccullough> robinhood comes with sources[06:45:43] <MichaelHenry> who has the robinhood code?[06:45:48] <umccullough> it's in the pkg[06:45:51] <DeadYak> was about to say...[06:45:55] <DeadYak> I thought its src was available[06:46:08] <DeadYak> apache's overkill from a configuration standpoint if all you want to do is a little personal server imo[06:46:09] <MichaelHenry> add them to the haiku tree[06:46:10] * leavengood though umccullough was being facetious[06:46:15] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[06:46:19] <leavengood> yeah I could compile that with GCC4[06:46:33] <umccullough> GPL[06:46:35] <leavengood> I thought[06:46:40] <MichaelHenry> how hard would it be to add it the haiku tree?[06:47:06] <MichaelHenry> kinda like personal server in win98[06:47:09] <anarchos> leavengood: you are the webkit guy?[06:47:12] <DeadYak> not sure that's necessarily the appropriate place for it unless we wanted to distribute it with Haiku[06:47:16] <MichaelHenry> only better[06:47:21] <leavengood> RobinHood could probably be an add-on package[06:47:24] <leavengood> anarchos: yeah[06:47:34] <anarchos> leavengood: nifty =)[06:48:02] <leavengood> still needs some work, once we have a usable browser I will feel better ;)[06:48:26] <leavengood> I have to catch up to the latest WebKit and other stuff[06:48:37] <ddew|bofh> like firefox isn't usable ;)[06:48:40] <DeadYak> that's going to be "fun" considering how fast that tree moves[06:48:46] <anarchos> heh[06:48:47] <MichaelHenry> leavengood: if the newer firefox compiles in gcc4 why the webkit? r2 will run it[06:49:08] <ddew|bofh> a webkit browser would be awesome, like net+ r2 :)[06:49:11] <leavengood> I don't like Firefox[06:49:11] <DeadYak> MichaelHenry: because firefox is not some of our idea of a good native browser.[06:49:15] <leavengood> it is slow and bloated[06:49:19] <MichaelHenry> Is the webkit better?[06:49:24] <leavengood> much[06:49:36] <leavengood> the fastest open source renderer out there[06:49:37] <ddew|bofh> indeed, ff eats memory like there's no tomorrow[06:49:39] <DeadYak> webkit's quite lightweight and doesn't require you to implement a giant cross platform UI framework that doesn't really feel native on any platform.[06:49:55] <MichaelHenry> being sarcastic: Nahhhh, Firefox rulesssssss[06:50:04] <anarchos> nuts to firefox, expecially on beos...its been like 6 years of porting and it still stinks..not to knock anyone porting it, not their fault[06:50:09] <ddew|bofh> isn't webkit also license compatible with haiku?[06:50:10] <leavengood> FF3 seems better and I wouldn't mind seeing that on Haiku[06:50:12] <ddew|bofh> ie not gpl[06:50:15] <leavengood> but I want something lighter[06:50:17] <MichaelHenry> Agreed about the memory usage[06:50:33] <DeadYak> FF3b5's an order of magnitude improvement in the memleak department, that's for sure[06:50:46] <leavengood> WebKit is both LGPL for older stuff from KHTML and Apache for Apples stuff[06:50:49] <MichaelHenry> My biggest beef about beos and firefox is the crashing[06:51:03] <anarchos> and the slowness[06:51:06] <MichaelHenry> and the slllllllllllooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww redraws[06:51:13] <DeadYak> in any case, time for bed here[06:51:21] <leavengood> night DeadYak[06:51:34] <ddew|bofh> a native browser would still be better, no matter how well ff3 works. and webkit is really standards compliant which is another win[06:51:34] <MichaelHenry> night yak[06:51:37] <ddew|bofh> nn[06:51:42] * leavengood is in the same timezone at DeadYak and should probably go to bed too.......[06:51:47] <leavengood> but not in the mood yet ;)[06:52:02] <MichaelHenry> Ryan is our futureeeeeeeeeeeeee[06:52:04] <DeadYak> I'm not in the mood either but I have to get up at 6:15 ish :P[06:52:09] <leavengood> hehe[06:52:10] <anarchos> timezones: invented by a canadian[06:52:15] <DeadYak> night :P[06:52:16] <MichaelHenry> better make it count :D[06:52:23] <leavengood> heh[06:52:49] <leavengood> the beauty is I want a nice fast browser so hopefully I will make myself happy and therefore everyone else :)[06:53:27] <MichaelHenry> Seriously thou Ryan, I have been following your progress from the bounty till now, and I think you are doing a good job, even though you were stressed out for a moment.[06:53:28] <leavengood> I also have plans for a download_server with built-in torrent support (eventually)[06:53:29] <ddew|bofh> has there been any progress on the port the past few moths or has Real Life gotten in the way?[06:53:39] *** anarchos has quit IRC[06:53:42] <leavengood> ddew|bofh: real life[06:53:49] <leavengood> I'm quitting my job though and will have more time[06:53:50] <MichaelHenry> So, I think you.[06:53:55] <MichaelHenry> thank[06:53:57] <leavengood> thanks[06:54:02] <leavengood> it is good to hear[06:54:03] <leavengood> :)[06:54:23] <ddew|bofh> quitting your job? to work on haiku? :O[06:54:23] <MichaelHenry> Don't quit ya need to eat....[06:54:25] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[06:54:29] <anarchos> grr[06:54:30] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[06:54:33] <leavengood> I have plenty of saved money[06:54:44] <leavengood> and can do contracting stuff when I feel like it[06:55:01] <MichaelHenry> good, you can also do more porting :D[06:55:06] <ddew|bofh> if you have the buffer that makes perfect sense[06:55:06] <leavengood> I'd honestly rather work on Haiku stuff for free and enjoy myself than stay in a job I don't like :)[06:55:07] <MichaelHenry> on other thingss[06:55:18] <anarchos> has work started on netpositive? not sure if thats you doing it, or if thats another team/person[06:55:19] <MichaelHenry> I can give you a list :D[06:55:53] <MichaelHenry> I can keep you busy :D[06:55:58] <MichaelHenry> honest[06:55:59] <leavengood> anarchos: we had another guy, Marcus Jacob, who had a browser shell called WebPositive, but I have not heard from him in months[06:56:11] <leavengood> MichaelHenry: I have a big list of my own :)[06:56:11] <ddew|bofh> i'll settle for webkit, that's a big one :)[06:56:39] <leavengood> I will probably borrow some code from Themis and make my own browser shell[06:56:41] <MichaelHenry> yeah[06:57:17] <leavengood> may have to invent a new name though :)[06:57:41] <leavengood> as nostaglic as WebPositive is, I don't want to take that from Marcus[06:57:53] <leavengood> but maybe I can track him down again[06:58:06] <anarchos> WebPositivity :P[06:58:21] <MichaelHenry> NottheFox?[06:58:24] <anarchos> or, WebPlus[06:58:25] <leavengood> LOL[06:58:37] <MichaelHenry> FasterthanFox?[06:58:45] <MichaelHenry> BetterthanFox?[06:58:53] <pyCube_> TimeWaster[06:58:54] <leavengood> Maybe NetNegative with a black GUI :P[06:58:59] <anarchos> lol[06:59:00] <leavengood> pyCube_: LOL[06:59:01] <MichaelHenry> Justworkswithoutcrashing[06:59:26] <leavengood> MightStillCrash ;)[06:59:41] <MichaelHenry> Candownloadimageswithoutfreezing?[06:59:54] <umccullough> PortalToPorn[07:00:04] <umccullough> oh, sorry PortalToPr0n[07:00:09] <leavengood> heh[07:00:20] <MichaelHenry> ya know, I have to load up net+ to download jpegs?[07:00:39] <MichaelHenry> not for porn[07:00:44] <MichaelHenry> sorry p0rn[07:00:57] <leavengood> that's annoying[07:01:16] <anarchos> pr0n[07:01:23] <MichaelHenry> lol[07:01:56] <leavengood> Andrea Anzani made sure the image loading in the WebKit port uses the Translation Kit so whatever image decoders you have there should show in the browser :)[07:02:10] <ddew|bofh> neato :)[07:02:15] <MichaelHenry> I wish Opera had still kept their port but.... webkit will be better[07:02:19] <MichaelHenry> cool[07:02:38] <anarchos> leavengood: what about animated gifs? iirc translation kit cant do animated gifs...[07:02:43] <leavengood> the code was actually a lot shorter than what was there before[07:02:59] <leavengood> anarchos: yeah they are left to WebKit's gif code[07:03:15] <anarchos> ok[07:03:34] <MichaelHenry> brb, again leavengood, thanks for the work, you are underpaid for this....[07:03:42] <anarchos> quoting wikipedias net+ page, "NetPositive can be embedded into another application, or into the desktop of the OS itself, using the replicants system provided by the OS. When Active Desktop was launched on Windows, Microsoft promoted it as having been a major achievement. Be later claimed to have cloned the functionality using NetPositive (where Internet Explorer is used in Windows) in "nine lines of code"."[07:03:50] <ddew|bofh> hm, how stable is the gcc4 port? been reading about it crashing[07:03:51] <anarchos> that is awesome, nine lines of code, lol[07:04:06] <leavengood> hehe[07:04:56] <leavengood> yeah replicants are pretty easy to create once you have a view working[07:05:15] <leavengood> that is on my list of course[07:05:18] <leavengood> try that Firefox![07:05:27] <anarchos> so with the whole dual gcc2/4 thing, think they will do it as gcc4 and add some sort of gcc2 layer, or do gcc2 with some sort of gcc4 layer?[07:05:32] <umccullough> DeadYak, since i have very little idea how to circulate haiku's on a 404 page, i opted to just put one that i like best there :)[07:05:57] <umccullough> now i need to dress up the main page a bit I guess[07:05:58] <leavengood> anarchos: good point, I'd vote for the former[07:06:22] <umccullough> and something tells me google analytics isn't picking up the stats :P[07:06:27] <umccullough> i think it hates the port[07:06:30] <leavengood> I think it will force us to make the code better[07:07:25] <umccullough> definitely the gcc4 with gcc2 compat layer would make a lot more sense[07:07:35] <umccullough> vs the other way around[07:07:54] <ddew|bofh> it's more futur-proof anyhoo[07:07:54] <anarchos> maybe im just dumb...but does "the former" mean the first thing i said? i always get confused with that., heh[07:08:06] <leavengood> yeah GCC4 base with GCC2 compat ;)[07:08:19] <anarchos> i smoked a lot of pot in my youth, btw ;P[07:08:30] <leavengood> former, latter, think alphabetical order :)[07:08:49] <anarchos> ok yeah, that makes more sense to me too[07:08:53] <leavengood> (F is before L) :)[07:09:18] <umccullough> just think before == former[07:09:25] <anarchos> so when gcc12 comes out, you can just keep on layering on the layers, and we'd have a perfect windows replacement![07:09:28] <anarchos> heh, yeah[07:09:31] <umccullough> later == latter[07:09:47] <anarchos> gotcha[07:09:48] <leavengood> woohoo, Latin roots are fun[07:10:10] <leavengood> (assuming for and lat are Latin roots)[07:11:29] <leavengood> so, I use these special keys on my keyboard constantly (volume up and down, play/pause)[07:11:39] <leavengood> going to have to add something to Haiku for those[07:12:27] <anarchos> leavengood: i was thinking of donating to the macbook bounty once i start work (finally got a job today! woo!) but it looks like that might be done by pay cheque time, i was thinking of starting one for a "download kit" where you'd have a download server with addons and stuff for various protocols, bt, http, ftp, etc, think thats a good idea? would it be useful for your web browser? ive thought for years about this, and seeing as i c[07:13:00] <leavengood> anarchos: read above, I want to make one :-D[07:13:11] <leavengood> did you post the RFC for that to the Haiku site?[07:13:43] <leavengood> I want torrent support and global bandwidth throttling too[07:13:53] <anarchos> no, but i read that last night...first thought was "bastard stole my idea from my head!"[07:13:56] <leavengood> a bounty would be great :)[07:14:22] <rennj> ftpfs[07:14:23] <leavengood> my idea would be the browser would delegate all downloads to the download_server[07:14:27] <anarchos> once i get paid ill see how the ole finances are doing[07:14:28] <rennj> beos had that[07:14:45] <rennj-beos> i think fuse would be better choice[07:14:49] <rennj-beos> gmalfs[07:14:55] <rennj-beos> gmailfs[07:14:57] <rennj-beos> sshfs[07:15:00] <rennj-beos> backupfs[07:15:05] <anarchos> leavengood: thats exactly what i was thinking, global bandwidth throttling with some sort of priority settings[07:15:08] <rennj-beos> you pick up tons of filesystems[07:15:09] <leavengood> I also would want a "dl" command or something in the terminal to download something with the download server[07:15:27] <leavengood> rennj-beos: I think something FUSE-like in Haiku would be interesting[07:15:28] <rennj-beos> wgetfs[07:15:33] <rennj-beos> no not fuse[07:15:37] <rennj-beos> no not fuse like[07:15:41] <rennj-beos> ie. linux fuse[07:15:46] <rennj-beos> copatablity[07:15:47] * Kokito wonders if haiku has been added to koders.com[07:15:47] <leavengood> anarchos: you could help me by providing some design stuff[07:15:56] <leavengood> or your use cases[07:16:10] <leavengood> though they sound a lot like mine[07:16:22] <anarchos> leavengood: that wasnt my rfc...[07:16:42] <leavengood> anarchos: it doesn't matter, it seems like your ideas are good[07:17:09] <rennj> http://fuse.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/FileSystems[07:17:19] <rennj> compressionfs[07:17:29] <anarchos> i could try and write something up, but besides addons for various protocols and badwidth throttling, i got nothin', lol, but ill try and think up some stuff tonight[07:17:29] <rennj> let the user plug and play[07:18:07] <rennj> tar cpio zip[07:18:22] <rennj> nice fs feature[07:18:44] <leavengood> anarchos: no hurry, you could do something with a User story style: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_story[07:19:11] <leavengood> Use cases are a bit more complicated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case[07:19:45] <anarchos> interesting[07:21:06] <leavengood> so you could just say things like "when I click a link for a file it will automatically open in the download server to my default download location"[07:21:35] <leavengood> it doesn't have to be technical[07:22:05] * anarchos opens up pico[07:22:10] *** _Megaf has quit IRC[07:26:15] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[07:31:25] <leavengood> I added a comment to the Download Server RFC, we will see if others post their ideas or if the original Anonymous author will turn up ;)[07:31:45] <leavengood> http://www.haiku-os.org/glass_elevator/rfc/download_server[07:31:52] *** absabs has quit IRC[07:33:37] <anarchos> heh[07:34:28] <anarchos> heh[07:34:39] <anarchos> i wonder if the fake anarchos will read that and be like, wtf?[07:34:40] <ddew|bofh> download_server fits very well into the Haiku "feel" imo[07:35:08] <anarchos> apparently theres a fellow haiku'er who goes by Anarchos on here sometimes :P[07:36:00] <ddew|bofh> heh, come to think of it. a downloadserver was a part in a couple of haiku mockups i saw not too long ago[07:37:35] <leavengood> hehe[07:38:15] <leavengood> I'm reading the super long "Haiku Web Browser" forum post[07:38:19] <leavengood> lots of old stuff[07:38:28] <leavengood> it will be funny when I make it all reality[07:38:37] <leavengood> http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/haiku_web_browser[07:38:49] * leavengood pats himself prematurely[07:39:05] <anarchos> haha[07:40:25] <leavengood> really though it was one of those things that needed something external like WebKit to get to a certain place first[07:40:36] <leavengood> not that porting it was trivial[07:40:41] <leavengood> but not insane[07:41:34] <anarchos> so is the port pretty much "done", besides the obvious bugs and updating to the latest stuff from the linux side?[07:42:03] <leavengood> well there are still aspects to the port that need to be finished[07:42:09] <leavengood> some of the fancier stuff[07:42:25] <leavengood> and a lot of things related to a browser[07:42:35] <leavengood> so I kind of need to get the browser going to fix all that stuff[07:42:55] <anarchos> ah =)[07:42:56] <leavengood> and I need to wrap the WebKit stuff in a Haiku API[07:43:08] <leavengood> BHtmlView or whatever[07:43:33] <leavengood> like Apple has in Mac OS X[07:43:36] <anarchos> just one thing, dont make the loading progress bar part of the address bar like safari, thats pretty much the one thing that makes me not use safari[07:43:42] <leavengood> LOL[07:43:47] <leavengood> I kind of like that ;)[07:43:51] <anarchos> noooooooooo[07:43:53] <leavengood> though it is pretty annoying[07:44:01] <leavengood> distracting[07:44:52] <anarchos> i find it fucks up the typing too (although this has probably been fixed since the last time i used safari), but if a page is still loading and i'd try to start typing, a lot of times it would take the focus away and stuff[07:45:10] <leavengood> hehe[07:45:17] <anarchos> and i'd start yelling at it...then i found camino[07:45:22] <leavengood> I HATE focus-stealing with the fire of a thousand suns[07:49:36] <leavengood> anarchos: how about Safari's combo of reload/stop?[07:49:49] <anarchos> that can die, as well[07:49:50] <leavengood> I kind of like it...you really only do one of those operations at a time[07:49:51] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC[07:49:52] <leavengood> LOL[07:49:58] <anarchos> heh[07:51:01] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[07:51:12] <anarchos> i think my issue with that sems from the fact that i still, unfourtunatly, have a shit internet connection, and it stalls a lot. sometimes, when i hit stop on a page thats loading, it will show up, atleast enough for me to read the text[07:51:18] <Kokito> leavengood, I suppose you are aware of this? http://netoptimist.cvs.sourceforge.net/netoptimist/NetOptimist/[07:51:34] <anarchos> and i use that a lot, because reloading just means itll stall again, so when you have a combo button...make me wanna stab stuff[07:52:15] <anarchos> sems=stems[07:53:48] <geist> i like to stab stuff anyway[07:54:00] <anarchos> well yeah[07:54:05] <anarchos> who doesn't?[07:54:36] <anarchos> in fact, i was widely known as Stabby McStabberson in high school[07:55:28] <geist> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/Mr+Stabby/[07:55:53] <leavengood> heh[07:56:09] <leavengood> Kokito: I had heard of it, I will browse the code[07:56:37] <leavengood> Themis has some nice stuff[07:56:41] <leavengood> as well[07:57:48] <Kokito> leavengood, NetOpt is code probably too old[07:58:03] <leavengood> maybe[07:58:07] <anarchos> haha that was good geist[07:58:10] <leavengood> there might still be some nuggets[08:00:11] <Kokito> oops, pressed the suspend key by mistake[08:01:41] <leavengood> Seizure Inducing: http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/Cats/[08:02:07] <umccullough> leavengood, now how would you feel if we were all epileptic[08:03:15] <leavengood> you know I wonder if all that "video games causes seizures" stuff is just an urban legend[08:03:22] * leavengood goes to snopes.com...[08:05:04] <umccullough> don't think so[08:05:14] <geist> says a few did, but not a lot[08:05:25] <umccullough> there's a good reason nintendo started putting warnings on their NES back in the 80s[08:05:47] <ddew|bofh> i have actually seen it happening[08:05:55] <ddew|bofh> on snes[08:06:16] <anarchos> battling seizure robots was my favourite show as a kid[08:06:41] <geist> there was a pokemon episode that had some problems[08:06:48] <geist> but i think the video game connection is false[08:06:48] <umccullough> i used to work with an epileptic - but he was on medication to keep the seizures toa minimum[08:06:58] <ddew|bofh> there's nothing even remotely funny about seizures imo[08:07:24] <geist> except the awesomeness[08:07:24] <ddew|bofh> i suffered from the occasional petit mal some time after my injury, creepy as hell[08:07:38] <geist> and the lack of being about the drive afterwards: AWESOME[08:07:43] <leavengood> deja vu[08:07:46] <umccullough> i'm sure it's not funny to go through... but still :)[08:08:05] <geist> it's what all the cool kids do nowadays[08:08:42] <ddew|bofh> wtf?[08:08:55] <leavengood> OK I'm going to seriously die from lack of sleep or something[08:08:58] <leavengood> must go to bed[08:09:03] <leavengood> night folks[08:09:19] <umccullough> i heard it's better than sex[08:09:28] *** leavengood has quit IRC[08:10:06] <umccullough> 1[08:10:07] <umccullough> doh[08:10:21] <geist> oh yeah, we know you want to go to window 1[08:10:30] <geist> just do it. go ahead. see if i stop you[08:10:41] <ddew|bofh> heh[08:10:52] <geist> but remember this, we just might not be here when you get back[08:11:00] <geist> and then you'll regret it[08:11:34] <umccullough> :)[08:11:59] * umccullough expects the silent treatment[08:12:18] <ddew|bofh> passive aggressiveneess ftw :P[08:12:29] <ddew|bofh> err aggressivness[08:12:38] <ddew|bofh> ...or something P[08:23:40] *** absabs has joined #haiku[08:24:26] <Kokito> absabs, http://opentechpress.jp/developer/print.pl?sid=08/04/04/0220257[08:25:29] <absabs> Kokito, Let me see[08:28:24] <absabs> kokito, very cool[08:28:59] <absabs> IIRC, Drupal has taken part in GSoC for 4 years:)[08:29:38] <absabs> Don't know Drupal is used by haiku's web site before[08:29:40] <absabs> :P[08:30:04] <Kokito> absabs, yes, we use Drupal :)[08:31:18] <absabs> does rtl8139 work now?[08:35:00] <Technix> howdee everyone[08:35:54] * JonathanThompson points finger at Technix and and laughs[08:36:21] * Technix breaks that finger[08:36:26] <Technix> :P[08:36:34] <JonathanThompson> So glad I borrowed yours :P[08:36:39] <Technix> dammit![08:37:44] <Technix> hehe.. so, you have a good day today at Yacrosoft?[08:38:15] <JonathanThompson> Oh, a frustrating time where I got basically nothing useful done, due to not being able to use hardware I needed.[08:40:01] <umccullough> absabs, i'm guessing rtl8139 still is flaky[08:40:20] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, the haiku webserver is up again :)[08:40:23] <JonathanThompson> Seems like that card is a problematic card.[08:40:38] * JonathanThompson wonders how he can torture it now[08:40:48] <umccullough> i'm sure it's a lot more stable than it used to be ;)[08:40:49] <Technix> breaking web servers are we?[08:41:00] <umccullough> http://binarychicken.com:575[08:41:17] <absabs> firewire came in the same problem like rtl8139[08:41:31] <umccullough> oh wait...did it die already?[08:41:35] <JonathanThompson> If I'm not mistaken, since the last time you had it up, Haiku has gotten *A LOT* better and I shouldn't be able to do anything of note to it.[08:41:46] <JonathanThompson> I'm trying to retrieve it here ;)[08:41:53] <JonathanThompson> And... it seems awfully slow![08:42:05] <umccullough> it's up[08:42:09] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku[08:42:18] <umccullough> sorry, actually it appears my firewall is pissed off[08:42:33] <umccullough> i gotta get rid of the linksys firmware and switch to dd-wrt[08:42:36] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[08:42:36] <JonathanThompson> I take it you just did something to the firewall?[08:42:56] <umccullough> yeah[08:43:12] <JonathanThompson> I've been heavily hitting refresh on it ;)[08:43:15] <umccullough> i'll monitor it[08:43:36] <umccullough> be gentle on the poor PII 450 ;)[08:44:05] <JonathanThompson> Appears I've hit it hard enough it is taking time to fully refresh: not sure if I've hit a Safari issue, or Haiku/webserver issue ;)[08:44:12] <umccullough> huh[08:44:21] <anarchos> is a 3com 3c905b still concidered a good network card?[08:44:26] <umccullough> hang on, let me restart the daemon and see if that works[08:44:33] <umccullough> anarchos, works pretty well[08:44:38] <anarchos> i was thinking of throwing a box together, and they seem to be going on ebay for like $3[08:44:46] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, now?[08:44:52] <anarchos> i remember when they were like $40, so i bought a rtl8139 instead[08:44:55] <JonathanThompson> Seems like the driver for them works, so why not, anarchos? :)[08:45:10] <umccullough> rtl8139 driver for Haiku is kinda crappy[08:45:11] <anarchos> yeah it was always the best supported card for beos, iirc[08:45:34] <JonathanThompson> Are you watching memory usage while this runs, umccullough?[08:45:37] <anarchos> but i guess virtually every single mobo has ethernet built-in, these days[08:45:41] <JonathanThompson> See if it appears to be leaking?[08:45:46] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, hardly any memory used[08:45:57] <JonathanThompson> Doesn't mean built-in works well with drivers :)[08:46:01] <umccullough> but i think RobinHood is still flaky in Haiku :/[08:46:16] <anarchos> JonathanThompson: that is true[08:46:18] <anarchos> heh.[08:46:39] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, let me know if it hangs again[08:46:50] * JonathanThompson wonders how many requests umccullough's machine is trying to process[08:46:53] <umccullough> actually, i can test here[08:47:02] <umccullough> looks hung again :/[08:47:05] <JonathanThompson> Well, I'm not sure if it is Safari and how it behaves, or your machine.[08:47:11] <JonathanThompson> Yes, it does from here :)[08:47:21] <umccullough> let me restart the daemon again[08:47:40] <umccullough> yeah, that's the problem[08:47:41] <JonathanThompson> Is this running on native (non-emulated) hardware?[08:47:44] <umccullough> yes[08:47:50] <JonathanThompson> What's the problem?[08:48:01] <umccullough> for some reason the rhdaemon stops responding to requests[08:48:09] <umccullough> i have to "restart server" from the RHConsole[08:48:16] <umccullough> which restarts the daemon[08:48:30] <waveshaper> dont hate me for asking but :p. when can I start dev. for haiku ?[08:48:45] <JonathanThompson> On Haiku itself, or for Haiku?[08:49:06] <waveshaper> on haiku for haiku. Ive got Zeta somewhere though[08:49:34] <JonathanThompson> As soon as you're willing and able to tolerate the fact that you're working on a pre-alpha system and all that entails :)[08:49:41] <umccullough> well, you can install haiku with dev tools right now and start developing haiku apps :)[08:49:58] <umccullough> building haiku within haiku is still sketchy[08:50:19] <waveshaper> I can accept that. what is the recommend setting for doing audio work on it?[08:50:23] <JonathanThompson> Just be aware of the fact that you may find you uncover bugs that are known about in the system, or that aren't known about, and you'll want to report them :)[08:50:26] <waveshaper> ie. what soundcards got good support[08:50:35] <umccullough> i believe SBLive works pretty well[08:50:42] <JonathanThompson> I hung it again, umccullough.[08:50:46] <umccullough> my auich works here[08:50:59] <waveshaper> cool. got SBLive in an older box here.[08:51:02] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, yeah, funky[08:51:11] <umccullough> i restarted it again[08:51:13] * JonathanThompson wonders what's the deal with Robin Hood[08:51:27] <umccullough> well, i can recompile it from sources i spose[08:51:34] <JonathanThompson> I wonder if it hits some weird BMessage limit (not sure how it's implemented) or something else.[08:51:35] <umccullough> maybe it's cuz it's the beos version[08:51:45] <umccullough> i've been refreshing the page here too[08:51:50] <JonathanThompson> That'd be an interesting test, umccullough.[08:52:10] <umccullough> unfortunately i didn't install the devtools on that machine :/[08:52:51] * JonathanThompson has a thought that this too closely resembles what he's doing for work[08:53:01] *** _Megaf is now known as Megaf_[08:54:05] <umccullough> heh, just realized my upstream is clogged with a torrent[08:54:19] <umccullough> so it may not be quite as snappy as it should ;)[08:54:47] * JonathanThompson laughs at a Headline on the Tonight Show where a misunderstanding caused a robber to leave in frustration as the clerk felt the bag instead of filling it[08:55:17] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[08:55:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton[08:55:20] <JBurton> hi all[08:55:27] <JonathanThompson> Hi JBurton.[08:55:42] <JonathanThompson> I've been testing how quickly umccullough can restart Robin Hood on Haiku ;)[08:55:54] <JBurton> lol[08:55:57] <JBurton> hi JonathanThompson[08:56:03] <JonathanThompson> :)[08:56:32] <JBurton> been a while, no ?[08:56:48] <JonathanThompson> I've been around, but not perhaps online at the same time you've been.[08:56:59] <JonathanThompson> Such is the reality with us living so many time zones apart.[08:57:01] <umccullough> hi JBurton :)[08:57:12] <JBurton> hi umccullough[08:57:13] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[08:57:17] <JBurton> yeah, JonathanThompson that's true[08:57:23] <JonathanThompson> umccullough can testify I'm online in here more than is useful to progress ;)[08:57:29] <JBurton> eheh[08:57:46] <umccullough> for yourself and others ;)[08:58:10] <JonathanThompson> Though I've been helpful to some, but definitely I can't point towards anything that's been truly helpful to my own productive ends.[09:03:39] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC[09:06:17] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[09:13:54] <umccullough> i guess my piii 600 isn't going to be running much of anything any time soon - memtest86 fails miserably[09:14:04] <umccullough> guess it's time to swap some memory again :([09:14:15] <umccullough> anyhow, time for bed - 'night[09:14:16] <JonathanThompson> I presume it uses PC-100?[09:14:16] <anarchos> pii's are where its at, fancy boy[09:14:36] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, actually it's pc-133[09:14:40] <Kokito> good night folks[09:14:42] <JonathanThompson> Ah.[09:14:45] <JonathanThompson> Bye Kokito[09:14:47] *** Kokito has quit IRC[09:14:50] <absabs> night[09:14:57] <umccullough> but actually, i think the processor only has a 100mhz FSB at the moment[09:15:01] <umccullough> so, pc100 would work[09:15:09] <umccullough> i've got a stack of it on my desk anyway :)[09:15:22] <JonathanThompson> Funny, and I have perfectly reliable PC-100 ECC RAM in my old box right now ;)[09:15:29] <JonathanThompson> Had it since January 2000 for this RAM.[09:15:41] <JonathanThompson> Seems Corsair makes good stuff.[09:15:51] <JonathanThompson> (Or at least sells good stuff)[09:16:18] <umccullough> I have 6 512mb registered ECC PC-100 DIMMs right here ;)[09:16:39] *** stargater has joined #haiku[09:16:42] * JonathanThompson can't remember if his requires registered or unregistered[09:16:43] <stargater> moin[09:16:59] <JonathanThompson> Then again, it's not likely I'll spend the time and money to add more RAM to it.[09:16:59] <umccullough> but i'll probably put the two 256mb PC-133 ECC dimms in rather[09:17:39] <umccullough> although, considering what the machine is used for - i could just throw in some of the non-ECC stuff and be fine[09:17:51] <umccullough> anyhow, time for bed[09:18:06] * JonathanThompson staples umccullough into bed[09:27:56] <Technix> I KNEW IT![09:28:13] * Technix frees umccullough "run man, run!"[09:35:02] <CIA-52> axeld * r25235 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):[09:35:02] <CIA-52> * Added tracing for binds and connects as well.[09:35:02] <CIA-52> * Introduced the TCP_TRACING macro in tracing_config.h.[09:35:02] <CIA-52> * Enlarged the default trace size to something a tiny bit useful (but still[09:35:02] <CIA-52> acceptable for systems with little RAM).[09:35:02] <CIA-52> * Cleanup.[09:40:00] <CIA-52> axeld * r25236 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (TCPEndpoint.cpp TCPEndpoint.h): (log message trimmed)[09:40:00] <CIA-52> * TIME_WAIT endpoints must not send an acknowledgement for known data; this[09:40:00] <CIA-52> fixes the "endless discussions" when closing a local connection - only[09:40:00] <CIA-52> happened on a simultaneous close.[09:40:00] <CIA-52> * A FIN in TIME_WAIT now updates the time-wait timer, as required by the[09:40:03] <CIA-52> TCP specification.[09:40:05] <CIA-52> * Entering TIME_WAIT now cancels all connection timers. We might want to[09:43:43] *** aljen has quit IRC[09:43:58] <Technix> whoa[09:43:59] <Technix> http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/28/no.body.case.ap/index.html[09:44:50] *** Roderic has joined #Haiku[09:44:51] *** Roderic is now known as Ingenu[09:45:09] <Technix> hey Ingenu[09:47:18] <Ingenu> hey[09:47:41] <Technix> you figure out the 'ps' command?[09:47:43] <Ingenu> could you paste the line you got when I joined ?[09:47:52] <Technix> 01:44 -!- Roderic [i=ame at rodericvpc dot funcom.com] has joined #Haiku[09:47:52] <Technix> 01:44 -!- Roderic is now known as Ingenu[09:47:55] <Ingenu> yeah thank you[09:54:20] <Ingenu> any way to change that ?[09:54:32] <Technix> I guess it depends on your irc client[09:56:13] <Ingenu> I shall see then[10:00:37] *** Yaroze has quit IRC[10:00:59] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku[10:01:21] <stargater> reboot[10:01:24] *** stargater has quit IRC[10:02:03] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[10:04:18] *** JBurton has quit IRC[10:08:30] <Technix> http://www.worldometers.info/[10:08:31] <Technix> awesome site[10:09:11] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[10:09:38] <Technix> http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20080425/tc_usatoday/microsoftquarterlyincomefallsitmayaffectyahoobid;_ylt=AnkFE5Qo10hThOTChbwupBis0NUE[10:09:42] <Technix> hrm, JonathanThompson[10:09:43] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[10:11:45] <CIA-52> axeld * r25237 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/ (3 files in 2 dirs):[10:11:45] <CIA-52> * Use dprintf_no_syslog() for FLOW and everything in scsi2ata.c - this prevents[10:11:45] <CIA-52> endless writing to the syslog.[10:11:45] <CIA-52> * Minor cleanup.[10:22:35] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[10:22:35] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666[10:26:48] <JonathanThompson> Technix, I don't think that'll affect me much one way or the other.[10:26:54] <Technix> oh?[10:27:06] <JonathanThompson> First it requires I have stock for it to matter much ;)[10:28:30] <JonathanThompson> It's funny that Microsoft grew sales in their online services, but losses got larger :)[10:28:38] <CIA-52> axeld * r25238 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/TCPEndpoint.cpp:[10:28:39] <CIA-52> * Closed endpoints are now deleted directly, they no longer get into the[10:28:39] <CIA-52> 2MSL wait.[10:28:39] <CIA-52> * Accidently left on debug output.[10:39:01] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[10:39:10] <CIA-52> axeld * r25239 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/TCPEndpoint.cpp:[10:39:10] <CIA-52> * For local connections, we no longer use the TIME_WAIT state; in this case,[10:39:10] <CIA-52> we know that the connection was torn down cleanly, and there are no inflight[10:39:10] <CIA-52> segments floating around anymore.[10:46:04] <CIA-52> axeld * r25240 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (TCPEndpoint.cpp TCPEndpoint.h): * Minor cleanup.[10:51:40] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[10:51:41] *** pyCube has quit IRC[11:01:01] *** HohenheimElric has joined #haiku[11:03:27] <anarchos> is CIA reporting in real time?[11:03:38] <Technix> pretty much[11:03:45] <Technix> I think its a 5min delay[11:09:39] *** SprMa has quit IRC[11:16:19] *** anarchos has quit IRC[11:26:28] <CIA-52> axeld * r25241 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (TCPEndpoint.cpp TCPEndpoint.h tcp.cpp):[11:26:28] <CIA-52> * Added TCPEndpoint::GetOption(), currently only supports TCP_NODELAY, and[11:26:28] <CIA-52> TCP_MAXSEG.[11:26:28] <CIA-52> * Note, TCP_MAXSEG cannot be set yet.[11:30:33] <CIA-52> axeld * r25242 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/kits/net/ (28 files in 2 dirs):[11:30:34] <CIA-52> * Added the "sock" test application (as used in Steven's TCP Illustrated) to[11:30:34] <CIA-52> our repository, and integrated it to the build system.[11:30:34] <CIA-52> * Got it from: http://www.icir.org/christian/sock.html (sock-0.3).[11:42:00] *** travera has joined #haiku[11:44:57] *** dchis has joined #haiku[11:52:36] *** travera has quit IRC[12:07:52] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[12:14:36] *** Hoern has joined #Haiku[12:26:31] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[12:26:46] * ThomHolwerda pets DaaT[12:33:00] * DaaT pets ThomHolwerda[12:33:18] <Technix> maybe you two should get a room, eh[12:35:18] <DaaT> jealous[12:35:55] <ThomHolwerda> Technix: when i look out my window, i see sheep.[12:35:56] <Technix> hell yeah[12:36:01] <ThomHolwerda> i think that explains everything.[12:36:04] <Technix> heh[12:36:05] <Technix> indeed.[12:36:19] <Technix> at least tell me he's making you his famous pancakes this morning[12:36:19] * ThomHolwerda hugs the Dutch countryside[12:37:04] <Technix> DaaT: once you go Dutch, you never go back...[12:37:25] <DaaT> sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep[12:37:51] * DaaT steals the sheep and ThomHolwerda can't view them no more from his window[12:38:02] <ThomHolwerda> sometimes i wonder how my future wife is going to deal with my love for Fiona Apple[12:38:15] <ThomHolwerda> and then i think of DaaT and his sheep affection and his girlfriend[12:38:26] <ThomHolwerda> and then im all like, psssh, im not going to have any issues.[12:38:40] <DaaT> not at all[12:38:41] <DaaT> :P[12:38:57] <Technix> yeah, we call it the DaaT Scale of Impurity, round these parts[12:39:09] <Technix> "yer gots too much DSI, I tells ye"[12:39:15] <DaaT> :)[12:39:43] * Technix gives DaaT a manly embrace[12:39:46] <Technix> how's it going?[12:40:03] <ThomHolwerda> "manly embrace"[12:40:04] * DaaT takes a shower[12:40:06] <ThomHolwerda> gotta remember that one[12:40:07] <DaaT> eeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwww[12:40:14] <DaaT> i prefer the sheep![12:40:19] <Technix> pff[12:40:26] <Technix> whatever[12:40:33] <ThomHolwerda> is that like a "manly kiss"[12:40:34] <Technix> you know I bring out the hawtness[12:40:46] <ThomHolwerda> or a manly patt on the butt[12:40:57] <DaaT> not the "hawtness", but "ewwwtness"[12:40:58] <DaaT> :P[12:41:00] <Technix> ThomHolwerda: how do you think DaaT was paid when he worked for TBJ?>[12:41:11] <ThomHolwerda> haha[12:41:34] <DaaT> like I was ever paid... pphhttt[12:42:15] <Technix> you ungrateful little....[12:42:22] <Technix> :P[12:43:05] <Technix> you working these days? I don't recall whats new with ya[12:43:08] <ThomHolwerda> osnews pays me in empty seashells[12:43:11] <DaaT> vacation[12:43:15] <ThomHolwerda> americans, you know.[12:43:24] <DaaT> ThomHolwerda: at least you get to review some nice stuff :)[12:43:24] <ThomHolwerda> think everything outside of america pays in shells.[12:43:37] <Technix> cool, where you vacationing at?[12:43:42] <ThomHolwerda> DaaT: the modern equiv of beeds and mirros[12:44:08] <DaaT> home :P[12:44:17] <ThomHolwerda> "ooooh shiney LCDs!"[12:44:17] <DaaT> ThomHolwerda: better than nothing[12:44:28] <ThomHolwerda> "me beeds, you newsitems!"[12:44:53] <Technix> ThomHolwerda: got any recommendations for a widescreen LCD?[12:45:05] <Technix> I'm looking at getting the dell 3008[12:45:16] <Technix> or 07? yeah.. 3007[12:45:25] <ThomHolwerda> i have an HP f2105[12:45:36] <ThomHolwerda> 21" widescreen 1680x1050[12:45:37] <ThomHolwerda> me loves it[12:46:02] <Technix> cool, not big enough for my needs though this year, doing some landscaping/design/cad this summer on the side[12:46:06] <ThomHolwerda> no horizonral pivoting though[12:46:08] <ThomHolwerda> which sucjs[12:46:13] <ThomHolwerda> sucks*[12:46:14] <ThomHolwerda> ah.[12:46:46] <ThomHolwerda> wow[12:46:56] <ThomHolwerda> a normal newsitem on osn got linked to by Ars[12:46:56] <ThomHolwerda> http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/04/28/psystars-mac-clones-have-allegedly-started-shipping[12:46:59] * ThomHolwerda cheers[12:47:09] <ThomHolwerda> exactly what I'm aiming for :)[12:47:15] <Technix> nice![13:06:19] <ThomHolwerda> yeah im really happy with that[13:06:37] <ThomHolwerda> the goal of the "new style" reporting is to turn is into something more than a glorified rss feed[13:06:57] <ThomHolwerda> ars linking to us in the way they did is a nice boost im on the right track[13:07:02] <ThomHolwerda> turn us*[13:07:12] <Technix> original content and editorials are a good thing[13:07:28] <ThomHolwerda> yes, but the base of osn are the normal news items[13:07:33] <ThomHolwerda> by making then more compelling too[13:07:43] <ThomHolwerda> it makes everything better[13:14:58] *** dchis has quit IRC[13:18:23] *** dchis has joined #haiku[13:23:25] *** DaaT has quit IRC[13:29:00] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[13:29:01] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton[13:29:03] <JBurton> back[13:29:10] <Technix> front[13:29:14] <stpere> morning[13:29:18] <absabs> hi JBurton[13:29:41] <absabs> morning stpere[13:34:30] *** nibble has joined #haiku[13:37:01] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku[13:39:43] * JonathanThompson is Sleepless in (the city next to) Seattle[13:40:39] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[13:40:40] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666[13:48:10] *** Monni has quit IRC[13:49:09] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[13:51:24] *** _Lucretia___ has quit IRC[13:51:31] <stpere> JonathanThompson: airport?[13:51:38] <JonathanThompson> Nope.[13:51:53] <JonathanThompson> Well, right next to Seattle, if you ignore the 1+ mile of lake in between :)[13:52:02] *** _Lucretia___ has joined #haiku[13:52:12] <stpere> ah[13:52:26] <JonathanThompson> Of which there's no way I can leave the city I live in without traversing the lake via a bridge or swimming.[13:52:48] <stpere> would suck to target that bridge for bombing[13:56:16] <JonathanThompson> I've been brainstorming when I should be sleeping, and the brainstorm is on the level of a hurricane ;)[13:57:01] <stpere> it's like 5 AM, right?[13:57:08] <JonathanThompson> Yup.[13:57:14] <JonathanThompson> As I said, hurricane force brainstorm.[13:57:21] <JonathanThompson> Can't sleep, though I'm tired.[13:59:06] * Technix is watching John Adams, part 1[14:00:42] *** Monni has joined #haiku[14:06:20] <Technix> correction, I just finished it.[14:06:30] <Technix> not bad at all, Giamati is brilliant[14:08:08] <JBurton> you mean Giamatti ?[14:09:07] <Monni> *boing*[14:09:34] <Technix> yes.[14:10:49] *** waveshaper has quit IRC[14:14:08] <TuneTracker> Does anyone know what "tracker taskloop" is ?[14:14:28] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[14:15:06] <Technix> likely its just a Tracker thread[14:15:31] <Technix> as it awaits BMessages to process[14:15:33] <TuneTracker> Hi Technix Righto...it's shown among the threads in ProcessController. But it goes a little bonkers on my systems sometimes.[14:15:41] <TuneTracker> Really pegs out[14:15:41] <Technix> high cpu?[14:15:46] <TuneTracker> yes[14:16:12] <Technix> This might prove helpful: http://www.bug-br.org.br/pipermail/bedevtalk/2006-August/000038.html[14:16:27] <TuneTracker> thanks...looking[14:16:48] <Technix> although, no replies[14:16:49] <Technix> hrm[14:17:18] <Technix> best place to ask might be the mailing list(s)[14:17:26] <TuneTracker> good suggestion[14:17:47] <TuneTracker> I can literally kill the thread and things settle down without any noticable loss of anything.[14:18:05] <Technix> http://www.haiku-os.org/community/ml <-- link for reference[14:18:12] <TuneTracker> thanks much... :-)[14:18:13] <JBurton> it's a thread for periodic tasks[14:18:17] <Technix> not that you didn't know, but others might not know[14:19:02] <Technix> hey Dane, got a quick question for you, if you have time?[14:19:07] <TuneTracker> sure[14:19:12] <Technix> see priv ms[14:19:20] <TuneTracker> ah ok[14:20:43] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[14:21:42] <JBurton> hi DeadYak[14:23:10] *** thorn has joined #haiku[14:23:11] *** thorn_ has quit IRC[14:26:12] *** nibble has quit IRC[14:26:23] *** nibble has joined #haiku[14:27:50] <DeadYak> morning[14:27:57] * ThomHolwerda pets DeadYak[14:28:07] * DeadYak pets Thom_Holwerda[14:30:13] <absabs> good morning DeadYak[14:32:00] <CIA-52> axeld * r25243 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/tcp.cpp:[14:32:00] <CIA-52> * tcp_header::urgent_offset must be set in network byte order as well.[14:32:00] <CIA-52> * Cleanup.[14:35:40] <DeadYak> looks like axel is busy today[14:38:35] <stpere> DeadYak: it's the big day :)[14:38:44] <stpere> morning[14:40:23] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[14:41:52] <DeadYak> the big day?[14:42:15] <stpere> I'm talking with my boss[14:42:39] <CIA-52> stippi * r25244 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)[14:42:39] <CIA-52> Rewrote parts related to drawing the labels. The order of drawing happens as[14:42:39] <CIA-52> this (seems to be what R5 BStatusBar does):[14:42:39] <CIA-52> * combine the "trailing text" with the "trailing label" and truncate the[14:42:40] <CIA-52> resulting string on the left side according to the width of the entire[14:42:40] <CIA-52> control[14:42:42] <CIA-52> * combine the "label" with the "text" and truncate that on the right side[14:43:23] <CIA-52> axeld * r25245 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (TCPEndpoint.cpp TCPEndpoint.h):[14:43:23] <CIA-52> * Implemented sending of urgent data. Seems to work fine, but of course only[14:43:23] <CIA-52> if the other end is not a Haiku host (retrieving of urgent data is still[14:43:23] <CIA-52> missing).[14:43:25] <CIA-52> * Resolved TODO: SendData() now sends a SIGPIPE when trying to send on a[14:43:27] <CIA-52> closed connection.[14:44:14] <DeadYak> stpere: good luck![14:48:01] <TuneTracker> Does anyone know if Haiku is back to behaving with Nvidia cards now?[14:52:14] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[14:55:29] <absabs> an interesting book[14:56:07] <absabs> http://www.osxbook.com/book/bonus/[14:57:16] *** HeTo has joined #haiku[14:58:55] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[14:58:56] *** Barrett is now known as Barrett666[14:59:18] <stpere> got the explanations.. sigh[14:59:44] <stpere> my client told it me it was for my work alone[15:00:01] <stpere> but on the invoice, it's well said it was for her website hosting which was also due[15:00:43] <DeadYak> stpere: so...why did that affect the number of hours shown?[15:00:48] <DeadYak> stpere: shouldn't that have been a separate charge?[15:01:42] <stpere> well, it is[15:01:51] <stpere> but my client gave me erronous details[15:01:55] <DeadYak> ah[15:02:08] <stpere> or, they changed the bill afterward[15:15:08] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku[15:16:48] *** nibble has quit IRC[15:27:14] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[15:27:14] *** ThomHolwerda has quit IRC[15:29:07] *** ThomHolwerda has joined #haiku[15:29:12] <ThomHolwerda> dudewtf[15:29:41] <ThomHolwerda> i believe i just saw adobe reader cause a BSOD[15:29:53] <ThomHolwerda> my first ever BSOD on server 2003, and my first in, like, 5 years.[15:30:28] <slaad> Oh, yeah, it's more common than you think.[15:30:47] <ThomHolwerda> yeah but ADOBE READER?[15:30:48] <slaad> My job (For 3 more days ! :) does artwork supply stuff.[15:30:51] <slaad> Yup.[15:30:56] <slaad> I meant from Adobe Reader.[15:31:04] <ThomHolwerda> weird stuff[15:31:11] <slaad> One of our systems opens PDFs in Reader... kept causing BSODs.[15:31:15] <HeTo> Adobe Reader has (or at least had) some DRM stuff that could lead to BSOD[15:31:24] <slaad> Took us a day of fucking around to figure it out.[15:31:27] <slaad> No print runs that day.[15:31:52] <HeTo> IIRC you could crash your system a couple of years ago just by trying to get a screenshot when Reader was running[15:32:24] <ThomHolwerda> it crashed the moment i pressed "accept" on the adobe eula[15:32:29] <ThomHolwerda> (hadnt opened a pdf yet)[15:33:12] <ThomHolwerda> ill try as soon as this set of updates to office are installed[15:34:30] <ThomHolwerda> i saws a bsods lolz[15:37:13] <ThomHolwerda> ok lets see[15:43:35] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku[15:57:50] *** waveshaper has quit IRC[15:58:13] *** helf has joined #haiku[15:58:35] <helf> wooo[15:58:43] * DeadYak pets helf[15:58:46] <helf> My morning has started off brilliantly :P[15:58:53] <DeadYak> oh?[15:58:54] * helf hit a parked car[15:58:55] <helf> LOL[15:59:06] <absabs> bbl[15:59:11] *** absabs has quit IRC[15:59:14] <helf> barely dented their wheel well. they didnt care :P[15:59:15] <helf> thank god[16:01:28] <DeadYak> whoops[16:01:38] <helf> I thought it was highly amusing[16:01:49] <CIA-52> axeld * r25246 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/TCPEndpoint.cpp:[16:01:49] <CIA-52> * Followed Ingo's suggestion, and retricted sending SIGPIPE only to userland[16:01:49] <CIA-52> API clients.[16:03:02] *** slaad has quit IRC[16:03:44] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[16:03:45] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666[16:14:10] *** crash_ has joined #haiku[16:15:13] *** wildur has quit IRC[16:15:32] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[16:18:15] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[16:19:44] *** Megaf_ is now known as _Megaf[16:19:57] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[16:28:48] *** stippi has joined #haiku[16:28:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[16:29:40] *** stippi has quit IRC[16:31:56] *** absabs has joined #haiku[16:32:12] <absabs> I'm Back[16:38:45] <DeadYak> wb[16:39:07] <umccullough> RobinHood survived the night :)[16:39:14] <DeadYak> yay[16:39:20] <umccullough> of course, only two people actually hit it after I setup google analytics[16:39:28] <absabs> wawa[16:39:32] <absabs> congrats[16:39:52] <umccullough> anyhow, off to work[16:43:12] <JBurton> lol[16:48:13] * ThomHolwerda waves into the channel[16:48:25] <surrounder> hey thom![16:48:28] <ThomHolwerda> ola[16:51:49] <helf> back[16:51:49] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC[16:51:52] <helf> morning thom[16:52:08] *** _Megaf has quit IRC[16:52:21] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[16:53:56] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku[16:57:58] <CIA-52> axeld * r25247 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/cache/block_cache.cpp: * Only enable block/transaction tracing when the macro is 1.[16:58:28] *** _Megaf has quit IRC[16:58:53] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku[16:59:12] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[17:01:00] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[17:04:35] *** Hoern has quit IRC[17:05:38] *** _Megaf is now known as Megaf_[17:08:57] *** tqh has joined #haiku[17:09:35] * DeadYak pets tqh[17:11:39] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[17:12:34] *** SprMa_ has joined #haiku[17:13:31] *** SprMa_ has quit IRC[17:18:13] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[17:24:28] <JBurton> bye all[17:24:33] *** JBurton has quit IRC[17:25:54] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[17:27:30] *** SprMa has quit IRC[17:31:29] *** rennj-beos has quit IRC[17:31:51] *** rennj-amiga has left #haiku[17:38:19] *** mats has joined #haiku[17:41:37] *** pyCube has quit IRC[17:43:41] *** {V} has joined #haiku[17:49:46] <Technix> umccullough: whats the ip for that there server?[17:54:17] *** HohenheimElric has quit IRC[17:54:22] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[17:55:49] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[17:59:49] *** {V}afk has quit IRC[18:08:45] <CIA-52> axeld * r25248 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/Debug.cpp:[18:08:45] <CIA-52> * The "bfs" KDL command can now also convert block offsets to block_runs and[18:08:45] <CIA-52> vice versa.[18:08:45] <CIA-52> * Some cleanup.[18:08:50] *** craz-s has joined #haiku[18:08:53] *** SirBob1701 has joined #haiku[18:08:56] <craz-s> hello[18:12:47] *** mats has quit IRC[18:15:37] <CIA-52> axeld * r25249 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs):[18:15:37] <CIA-52> * Fixed at least the "dd" part of bug #2148: the second double indirect array[18:15:37] <CIA-52> block would be incorrectly addressed when allocating a stream - this could[18:15:37] <CIA-52> cause random blocks to be overwritten, and therefore could cause many sorts[18:15:38] <CIA-52> of problems.[18:15:40] <CIA-52> * Moved BFS_TRACING macro to the tracing_config.h file, and let it follow the[18:15:41] <CIA-52> new semantics of those other macros in there.[18:16:21] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[18:16:58] <Begasus> plop[18:17:11] <helf> hi, Begasus[18:18:01] <Begasus> hi helf[18:20:37] <DeadYak> oh nice, ouch.[18:24:34] <Teknomancer> hi Begasus[18:25:06] *** Megaf_ is now known as _Megaf[18:25:45] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[18:25:47] <Begasus> hi tek![18:25:52] <Begasus> bugger ...[18:26:18] <helf> heh[18:26:31] *** ThomHolwerda has quit IRC[18:29:48] *** ThomHolwerda has joined #haiku[18:41:58] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[18:45:55] *** _Megaf is now known as Megaf_[18:48:33] <CIA-52> axeld * r25250 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/vm/vm_page.cpp:[18:48:33] <CIA-52> * The page writer was calling remove_page_marker() without holding the[18:48:33] <CIA-52> sPageLock. This could easily mess up the page queue.[18:48:33] <CIA-52> * Now, remove_page_marker() gets the lock itself. This fixes bug #1900.[18:49:17] <CIA-52> axeld * r25251 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp:[18:49:17] <CIA-52> * Renamed temporary KDL variable from _cookie to _volume in the "mount"[18:49:17] <CIA-52> command.[18:50:53] <PulkoMandy> +++[18:50:59] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[18:51:09] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[18:51:41] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[18:55:04] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[18:55:14] <Begasus> DaaT![18:55:24] *** {V} has quit IRC[18:55:31] *** {V} has joined #haiku[18:56:50] <craz-s> so, I currently run linux and am thinking about trying out haiku. Any warnings/things I should know that are not in the FAQs?[18:57:52] * Begasus never read the FAQ's IIRC ;)[18:57:57] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[18:57:58] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Kokito[18:58:08] <Kokito> good morning folks[18:58:20] <Begasus> evening Kokito[18:58:23] <DaaT> Begasus![18:58:33] <DaaT> hiya Kokito[18:59:00] <Kokito> hey DaaT![18:59:27] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC[18:59:29] <Kokito> DaaT, going watch the best soccer player in the world play tonight? :P[18:59:30] <Begasus> how's the old man doing? ;)[18:59:48] <Kokito> the old man keeps getting older :)[19:00:04] <AlienSoldier> craz-s it's pre-alpha software, also the nvidia driver was broken last time i tryed it[19:00:22] *** burfi has joined #haiku[19:00:28] <Begasus> hehe[19:02:16] <DaaT> Kokito: I plan to. Now to convince my gf to let me watch it :P[19:03:29] <pyCube> best soccer player? pele?[19:04:11] <[Katisu]> I would suspect he means at the moment[19:04:14] <Kokito> pyCube, depends on who you ask, as usual :)[19:04:39] <[Katisu]> but you never know with those half-centurions[19:05:19] <Kokito> well, being as old as I am, I had the pleasure of seeing Pele play live :)[19:05:37] <DaaT> pyCube: Cristiano Ronaldo. Portuguese of course :P[19:05:40] <Kokito> so being old has its positive side too :P[19:06:32] <Kokito> DaaT, and he is so good, that he misses a penalty kick?[19:06:37] <Kokito> :P[19:07:26] <DaaT> Kokito: even the best can miss ;)[19:07:44] <DaaT> I'm sure you weren't talking about Messi... riiiiight?[19:07:45] <DaaT> :D[19:08:23] <Begasus> bbl[19:08:32] *** Begasus has quit IRC[19:08:51] <Kokito> DaaT, if it were six months ago, I would have said yes. but today, C. Ronaldo is by far a much better player. Although I am sure Messi will come back,[19:09:51] *** Thom_Holwerda has quit IRC[19:10:18] <DaaT> Kokito: I think he will as well[19:10:47] <helf> are you talking about soccer?[19:10:50] <helf> :P[19:11:44] <DaaT> helf: no. Football[19:11:45] <DaaT> ;)[19:12:26] <helf> hehe[19:13:01] <HeTo> it's a shame the game This Is Football wasn't sold under that name in the US[19:13:29] <helf> why is the american game called football?[19:13:42] <stpere> heretic! :P[19:13:45] <HeTo> as mediocre as I've heard the game was it still could have taught Americans the real name of the sport[19:13:53] <stpere> you shall not contest America![19:13:59] <DaaT> helf: good question[19:14:01] <DaaT> it's moronic[19:15:38] <helf> stpere : yes, for we will nuke your ass in the name of oi^H^H compassion and democracy![19:15:47] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25252 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/datalink_protocols/arp/arp.cpp: (log message trimmed)[19:15:47] <CIA-52> Partial solution to a race condition between arp_timer() and[19:15:47] <CIA-52> arp_update_entry(). While arp_timer() was sending the last request[19:15:47] <CIA-52> arp_update_entry() could be called (caused by an incoming reply) and[19:15:47] <CIA-52> free the request buffer, which arp_timer() would free a moment later[19:15:48] <pyCube> its all sports.. that is, f'ing retarded unless youre playing it[19:15:51] <CIA-52> again. The problem is not completely solved, since a duplicate reply can[19:15:51] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku[19:15:52] <CIA-52> still cause a double free. Checked in mainly for Axel's reading[19:17:16] <stpere> hopefully, I won't have to search through all my bills again this evening and can code :)[19:17:17] <[Katisu]> depends on how you look at the term "football"[19:17:37] <[Katisu]> as in any game played on foot[19:17:53] <DeadYak> hmm, something seems broken at berlios, I'm no longer getting commit emails[19:18:24] <absabs> night[19:18:28] *** absabs has quit IRC[19:19:10] <Kokito> The word "soccer" comes from an alteration of "assoc.", which is an[19:19:10] <Kokito> abbreviation of "association football".[19:19:37] *** TimKack has joined #haiku[19:24:51] <DaaT> Kokito: like I said, it's moronic[19:24:52] <DaaT> :)[19:26:17] <Kokito> DaaT, I have met many Spanish-speaking latinos in the US that even call it "futbol soccer" :)[19:28:00] <pyCube> my freshman year at highschool was the first year for school soccer team.. i played for 2 years before it became beyond stupid[19:28:30] <DaaT> Kokito: sheeeesh :P[19:28:34] <pyCube> but it was fun..[19:28:44] <pyCube> i was one of 3 or 4 non-mexicans[19:28:45] <DeadYak> I generally find sports in US high schools stupid :/ it's always play to win, not play to have fun[19:29:27] <pyCube> we invented some sweet "scare your opponent" tactics.. like the guacamole dance in the center of the field pre-game[19:29:45] <pyCube> were we'd sacrifice an avacado to the soccer gods[19:29:58] <pyCube> and smear green war paint on our faces[19:30:09] <pyCube> er, war guacamole[19:30:48] <AlienSoldier> akadian hiphop for the win http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFSkCxNw_ew[19:31:26] <pyCube> DeadYak: yeah.. school sports are really horrible.. mostly because they are at the expense of such quaint and trivial things as books and smart teachers[19:31:48] <pyCube> at least at my school it was[19:32:15] <pyCube> multi million dollar football field/etc.. and 20 year old textbooks[19:32:33] <pyCube> recycled football coaches serving as physics teachers[19:33:29] <DeadYak> pyCube: indeed :/[19:33:41] *** shackan has joined #haiku[19:33:49] <DaaT> pyCube: guacamole dance? o..k...[19:33:50] <DaaT> :P[19:34:10] <pyCube> DaaT: gotta do something to make it interesting[19:34:17] *** Thom_Holwerda has joined #haiku[19:34:47] <DeadYak> pyCube: iirc the football coach was also the physics teacher, and the cheerleading coach was the world history teacher[19:34:48] <DeadYak> fun times.[19:35:04] <pyCube> hehe[19:35:05] <DeadYak> needless to say, they taught straight out of the book (which was not terribly well written in and of itself)[19:35:14] <pyCube> yeah[19:35:47] * DaaT cattleprods Thom_Holwerda[19:35:51] <pyCube> you should have seen the confusion (of the teacher) when the physics books were all using metric measures and all we had in teh classroom were yardsticks[19:36:01] * Thom_Holwerda mooos[19:36:14] <DaaT> pyCube :D[19:36:14] * DeadYak milks Thom_Holwerda[19:36:21] <DeadYak> pyCube: bwahaha[19:36:32] <Thom_Holwerda> dude im at my parents' place[19:36:33] <AlienSoldier> US will need to go metric and soon[19:36:34] <Thom_Holwerda> be discrete[19:36:43] <Thom_Holwerda> AlienSoldier: the us already IS metric[19:37:20] <DaaT> Thom_Holwerda: it's time your parents know the truth[19:37:23] <cps1966> not completely[19:37:25] <AlienSoldier> Thom_Holwerda it's not from what i see, gas, temperature. i could go on[19:37:30] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: uhh...wishful thinking[19:37:40] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: also, fyi, the word you want is "discreet"[19:37:47] <DeadYak> unless you mean you want us to be separate entities :P[19:37:50] <Thom_Holwerda> AlienSoldier: the scientific world is metric, that's what counts[19:37:59] <pyCube> you dissin' crete!?[19:38:00] <Thom_Holwerda> the people themselves should use what they like[19:38:19] <pyCube> crete rules! and all its cretins too[19:38:31] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: also not entirely true until you hit university level, our high school physics/chem class was more than happy to use foot/pounds instead of newton/meters, etc.[19:38:42] <AlienSoldier> in canada the weight of fat lady and construction material are still to be metric[19:39:13] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: and everything outside of science is pretty much entirely english units, good luck finding anyone that's not a scientist that understands metric over here.[19:39:30] <stpere> DeadYak: o_I[19:39:37] <stpere> X-p[19:39:40] <pyCube> a classmate in my 12th grade physics class once asked, "is the moon a star?"[19:39:47] <stpere> understand metric..[19:39:48] <pyCube> ..that was my last day in that class[19:39:49] <DeadYak> stpere: I wish that was a joke :/[19:40:12] <stpere> that's like knowing how many fingers you have[19:40:13] <pyCube> i proceeded to get kicked out of the class for "disrupting the class"[19:40:15] <MindChild> People use metric?[19:40:20] <stpere> DeadYak: yes, joke[19:40:27] <DeadYak> MindChild: only everybody besides the US[19:40:44] <stpere> I typo'ed my smileys[19:40:49] <MindChild> People live in the US?[19:40:58] <DeadYak> stpere: I meant I wish I was joking[19:41:04] <stpere> oh[19:41:08] <stpere> haha[19:41:30] <Thom_Holwerda> what's not to understand about metric[19:41:36] <Thom_Holwerda> it's so easy[19:41:41] <Thom_Holwerda> even someone like me can understand it[19:41:42] *** dr_Evil has joined #haiku[19:41:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_Evil[19:41:49] <Thom_Holwerda> and im pathologically afraid of numbers[19:42:00] <DeadYak> hi dr_Evil[19:42:32] <MindChild> We learn metric in school. We all know it. We all can use it just fine. The problem is, all of the packaging and such use the traditional system for measuring weight/volume units. It is way too much to ask a stupid american to remember all of the conversions they will ever need[19:42:44] <MindChild> so they just default to using traditional to save sanity[19:42:47] <pyCube> my highschool not only asked kids to "just pretend that yards are meters", but it had a fully functional farm, a rodeo team, and an annual competition that pitched our schools mentally handicapped kids against another schools mentally handicapped kids in a game of basketball[19:42:54] <DeadYak> MindChild: I beg to differ, almost everyone I know seems to completely forget all about it as soon as they leave school[19:43:10] <MindChild> DeadYak: forget what exactly?[19:43:17] <DeadYak> MindChild: how to work with metric units.[19:43:21] <pyCube> a game that occured during school hours.. that you were encouraged to skip class to attend[19:43:40] <MindChild> I mean, I can tell you a kilogram is 1000 grams, but I can't tell you how heavy I am in kilos[19:43:58] <AlienSoldier> 2.2 conversion[19:44:05] *** {V} has quit IRC[19:44:11] *** {V} has joined #haiku[19:44:39] <AlienSoldier> girl should like kilo, it's lot smaller number :)[19:44:44] <MindChild> Sure. And with the 984798234792384789 other numbers in my head, all of those conversion decimals certainly will never stick[19:44:49] <MindChild> that is what google is for[19:44:59] *** Megaf_ is now known as _Megaf[19:45:14] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[19:45:26] <AlienSoldier> i also like to use km/h in car game, give more resolution[19:45:34] <stpere> MindChild: you divde by 2[19:45:43] <stpere> your answer, you divide by 10[19:45:47] <stpere> you add both[19:45:52] <MindChild> I mean, I still struggle trying to remember if .6 miles = 1 kilometer or if it is 1 mile = 1.6 kilometers[19:45:53] <stpere> err.. no sorry[19:46:01] <stpere> not exactly[19:46:08] <stpere> not at all :)[19:46:40] <AlienSoldier> MindChild just remember km are smaller[19:46:52] <dr_Evil> metric km are superior[19:47:07] *** Euver has joined #haiku[19:47:28] <MindChild> am I even backwards on my bad remembering? :([19:47:33] <DeadYak> dr_Evil: thanks for the PS2 fix :)[19:47:40] <DeadYak> MindChild: 1mile = 1.6km is correct.[19:48:06] <AlienSoldier> i especially like water weight and size being equivalent, 1 gram of water is 10x10x10 mm is 1 ml[19:48:36] <helf> back[19:49:07] <MindChild> Also, from what I remember, pounds (lbs) takes gravity into account, where kilos do not[19:49:17] *** Master199 has joined #haiku[19:49:23] <pyCube> helf: man.. been driving my car again lately.. i forgot how much i miss it[19:49:31] <helf> :D[19:49:31] <helf> awesome[19:49:40] <helf> if i had a 914, its all i would ever drive[19:50:21] <pyCube> its fun.. i have to admit though, my vr6 jetta is not a bad drive either[19:50:24] <helf> now that i's hit 3:50+/g, its high time for me to retire my van as a daily driver and get my fricken rabbit fixed. i gotta get a local diesel shop to redo the timing belt and valves and ill be set :)[19:50:47] <pyCube> its $4+ here[19:50:52] <helf> ugh[19:50:56] <helf> its going to BLOW when it hitst hat here[19:51:04] <helf> its 3.53 now, hit 3.56 for like 2 days[19:51:13] <helf> im already at $95 fillups... :([19:51:24] <pyCube> large tank?[19:51:25] <dr_Evil> lb can is used for mass and force, which is pretty stupid[19:51:35] <cps1966> yeah in a state where second lastest refinery is[19:51:50] <helf> pyCube: 27g[19:51:53] <pyCube> dr_Evil: why it is stupid?[19:52:08] <pyCube> make perfect sense to me[19:52:18] <dr_Evil> because: what is 4 lb? force or mass?[19:52:32] <pyCube> lb isnt a measure of mass[19:52:41] <pyCube> its a measure of weight[19:52:49] <DeadYak> force unit would be foot-lbs in english units[19:52:50] <pyCube> force[19:53:03] <DeadYak> iirc[19:54:57] <pyCube> helf: ah... my 914 has 16gal tank[19:56:18] <helf> they use foot lbs for torue. the amount of force exerted to move 1 foot.[19:56:24] <helf> or something[19:56:31] * helf wanders off to play video games[19:59:52] <DaaT> http://www.linkinn.com/_Terminator_Kama_Sutra[19:59:53] <AlienSoldier> pressure always was a mess, pascal, bar, lbs, mm of hg[20:00:17] *** Master199 has quit IRC[20:00:52] <AlienSoldier> DaaT "all is full of love"[20:01:02] <DaaT> AlienSoldier: great song, awesome video ;)[20:04:15] <AlienSoldier> DaaT seen Electroma? there is a similar scene (aminly the lighting) in it, directed by the same guy[20:04:22] <AlienSoldier> *mainly[20:11:49] <DaaT> AlienSoldier: haven't[20:12:34] <AlienSoldier> it's an acid trip of a movie :)[20:13:12] <AlienSoldier> i should not have said directed, i think he was art director on that one[20:14:22] *** _Megaf is now known as ByeAll[20:14:28] *** ByeAll is now known as Megaf_[20:15:28] <DaaT> AlienSoldier :P[20:19:44] *** aphedox_ has quit IRC[20:25:21] *** luroh has joined #haiku[20:32:42] *** hbhth has joined #haiku[20:42:32] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25253 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/kernel/debug_paranoia.h:[20:42:32] <CIA-52> Fixed build for paranoia disabled globally, but enabled for individual[20:42:32] <CIA-52> components.[20:45:00] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[20:47:59] *** {V} has quit IRC[20:48:05] *** {V} has joined #haiku[20:48:50] *** Kokito has quit IRC[20:50:42] *** Atomozero has quit IRC[20:50:44] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[20:50:45] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Kokito[20:52:44] *** Thom_Holwerda has quit IRC[20:54:58] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[20:56:43] *** TheNerd has joined #haiku[20:58:13] *** brechtm has joined #haiku[20:58:16] <brechtm> evening[20:59:35] *** Monni has quit IRC[21:01:39] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[21:02:05] *** hbhth has quit IRC[21:05:55] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25254 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/stack/ (Jamfile simple_net_buffer.cpp simple_net_buffer.h):[21:05:55] <CIA-52> Added a simple net_buffer implementation (using a single malloc()ed[21:05:55] <CIA-52> buffer) for debugging/testing purposes.[21:09:03] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC[21:10:01] *** Wiss has joined #haiku[21:20:30] <stpere> yay! new project at job[21:20:39] <stpere> a fish exporter company[21:27:18] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[21:45:11] *** dchis has quit IRC[21:45:16] <CIA-52> axeld * r25255 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/vm/vm_page.cpp:[21:45:16] <CIA-52> * steal_page() called remove_page_from_queue() without holding the sPageLock.[21:45:16] <CIA-52> This fixes bug #1900 for real.[21:45:16] <CIA-52> * Rearranged find_page_candidate() a bit, removed duplicate code, added a panic[21:45:16] <CIA-52> in case the marker state is invalid.[21:45:17] <CIA-52> * Some cleanup.[21:49:45] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25256 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/stack/net_buffer.cpp: (log message trimmed)[21:49:45] <CIA-52> * Fixed free_data_header_space(). It would increase the header space[21:49:45] <CIA-52> although it put the freed space in the free list. Alternating[21:49:45] <CIA-52> invocations of alloc_...() and free_...() would thus increase the[21:49:45] <CIA-52> header space unboundedly.[21:49:48] <CIA-52> * Unified the way a data_header and data_node access the header space.[21:49:50] <CIA-52> Originally data_header::data_space and data_node::header_space had to[21:50:47] *** dchis has joined #haiku[21:52:41] *** judgen has joined #haiku[21:56:54] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[21:56:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[21:57:13] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[21:57:29] *** ThomHolwerda has quit IRC[21:58:30] *** ThomHolwerda has joined #haiku[22:00:53] * helf yawns[22:04:31] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku[22:06:41] *** helf has quit IRC[22:09:54] * DeadYak pets MauriceK[22:10:33] *** helf has joined #haiku[22:11:05] <MauriceK> hey DeadYak[22:11:33] <DeadYak> how's it going?[22:11:51] *** Wiss has left #haiku[22:13:19] <MauriceK> hm... just recognized I cannot start vmware anymore on 8.04[22:13:30] <MauriceK> and vmware modules don't compile for whatever reason[22:14:55] <Kokito> MauriceK, http://blog.creonfx.com/linux/how-to-install-vmware-player-workstation-on-2624-kernel[22:15:49] <MauriceK> wow, my harddisk is going nuts?[22:15:57] <MauriceK> hm... let's pray...[22:16:00] *** burfi has left #haiku[22:16:05] <MauriceK> Kokito: thx for the link, will take a look[22:16:32] <MauriceK> hm... link seems to be broken?[22:16:34] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku[22:16:42] *** urnenfeld has left #haiku[22:17:09] <DeadYak> I thought Axel posted about exactly that on the mailing list the other day[22:17:10] * DeadYak looks[22:17:42] <MauriceK> hm... I am still some mails behind :)[22:18:09] <DeadYak> [openbeos] Using VMware Player on Linux 2.26.24+ (Ubuntu 8.04 and others)[22:18:33] <Kokito> DeadYak, it's the same link :)[22:18:44] <DeadYak> is it?[22:18:49] <Kokito> yep[22:18:57] <DeadYak> ah[22:19:01] <Kokito> that's where I copied it from[22:19:05] <Kokito> http://www.freelists.org/archives/openbeos/04-2008/msg00263.html[22:19:21] <luroh> alternatively: http://eitchpress.eitchnet.ch/?p=13[22:19:25] * tqh thinks 'Hello World' is a good name for first releases[22:19:45] <DeadYak> Kokito: I think they might've hit their hosting limit, *everybody* links to them[22:19:55] <Kokito> could be[22:20:03] <DeadYak> luroh: thanks :)[22:20:38] <CIA-52> axeld * r25257 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/kernel/lock.h:[22:20:38] <CIA-52> * Removed unused function benaphore_lock_etc(). A timeout is not really a[22:20:38] <CIA-52> good idea for a benaphore.[22:23:39] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[22:28:58] *** dchis has quit IRC[22:33:32] *** dchis has joined #haiku[22:36:50] *** tqh has quit IRC[22:38:07] *** bga has joined #haiku[22:38:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o bga[22:40:16] <mmu_man> plop[22:41:06] * mmu_man was frustrated today, still couldn't demo usb webcam cause of missing ohci[22:41:19] <mmu_man> the audience was quite confidential, but still... :)[22:42:58] <bga> Confidential?[22:43:37] <CIA-52> axeld * r25258 /haiku/trunk/build/config_headers/tracing_config.h: Fixed build when ENABLE_TRACING is 0.[22:44:40] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[22:47:16] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25259 /haiku/trunk/build/config_headers/tracing_config.h: Forgot this one: Stack trace depth macro for net_buffer tracing.[22:49:29] *** Euver has quit IRC[22:49:55] *** tradewind has joined #haiku[22:50:18] <tradewind> hi[22:50:25] *** dr_Evil has quit IRC[22:50:35] *** Thom_Holwerda has joined #haiku[22:51:51] <tradewind> I was wondering if there is someone here who use git for developing haiku[22:54:56] <DeadYak> not me, just played around with git-svn a little[22:55:14] <MauriceK> DeadYak: welcome in the club...[22:55:53] *** bga has quit IRC[22:57:30] <tradewind> so there isn't a place to clone from :)[23:05:08] <CIA-52> axeld * r25260 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):[23:05:08] <CIA-52> * Added an atomic.h header that provides a C++ file with a templatized[23:05:08] <CIA-52> 64-bit safe version of atomic_test_and_set() for pointers:[23:05:08] <CIA-52> atomic_pointer_test_and_set().[23:05:08] <CIA-52> * The VFS is now using this function (it's not used anywhere else in the[23:05:09] <CIA-52> kernel this way).[23:07:08] <mmu_man> ugh[23:07:11] <mmu_man> eark[23:07:17] <mmu_man> shrug[23:07:41] <helf> kelw[23:07:41] <helf> *kewl[23:07:45] <pyCube> ack! i keep getting shocked in the ear by my earphones[23:07:47] <helf> Aurora Linux is almost done installing on my SS20[23:07:50] <helf> wooo[23:07:53] <helf> that sucks[23:08:21] <pyCube> if i move too fast in my chair (across the floor), i get a shock..[23:08:22] <pyCube> sweet[23:08:35] <helf> heh[23:09:01] * mmu_man has the remote control :P[23:09:46] <MauriceK> gn8[23:09:55] *** MauriceK has quit IRC[23:10:57] *** Megaf_ is now known as _Megaf[23:11:42] *** _Megaf is now known as snort[23:11:59] *** snort is now known as _Megaf[23:12:19] <_Megaf> aloha[23:14:11] <pyCube> poi[23:14:23] <DHowett> boom[23:20:23] *** HeTo has quit IRC[23:20:28] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[23:21:20] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[23:27:38] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[23:29:57] *** stargater has joined #haiku[23:30:00] <stargater> hi[23:31:07] *** anarchos has quit IRC[23:32:57] *** {V} has quit IRC[23:33:05] *** {V} has joined #haiku[23:42:58] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[23:43:17] <JBurton> hi all[23:45:42] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku[23:47:53] *** aljen has joined #haiku[23:47:55] <aljen> hey =)[23:48:17] <JBurton> hi aljen[23:48:28] <aljen> hey JBurton :)[23:48:39] <CIA-52> korli * r25261 /haiku/trunk/src/ (12 files in 12 dirs): fix misuse of ... with B_UTF8_ELLIPSIS[23:52:21] *** anarchos has joined #haiku[23:52:23] *** anarchos has quit IRC[23:52:32] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25262 /haiku/trunk/docs/user/drivers/fs_interface.dox:[23:52:32] <CIA-52> Added a section to the select() hook documentation discussing the FSs[23:52:32] <CIA-52> responsibility never to call notify_select_event() after deselect().[23:54:42] *** TimKack has quit IRC[23:58:48] *** SirBob1701 has quit IRC[23:58:55] <DaaT> wow, ingo and axel are working overtime[23:59:12] <DeadYak> seems like it