[00:02:42] <umccullough> chef boyardee raviolis and sour cream...
[00:03:03] * JonathanThompson hands umccullough a random food comment award
[00:03:16] <umccullough> :)
[00:03:48] <umccullough> the sour cream expired Feb 25th
[00:04:01] <umccullough> but it was unopened... so i figured it was time to find a way to "get rid of it"
[00:04:18] <JonathanThompson> How can you know if something that's already sour has gone "bad" ?
[00:04:37] <JonathanThompson> Of course, note I can't smell much of anything...
[00:04:40] <umccullough> let me put it this way - it wasn't sour cream any more
[00:04:49] <umccullough> it was sour cheese in sour liquid
[00:05:06] <JonathanThompson> I'm guessing you didn't use it, then?
[00:05:10] <umccullough> oh i did
[00:05:19] <JonathanThompson> Did you eat it?
[00:05:25] <umccullough> doing so currently
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[00:05:45] * JonathanThompson awaits the death notice online
[00:05:56] <JonathanThompson> Wait, chances are your wife wouldn't announce that online...
[00:06:22] <umccullough> well, if I stop showing up here...
[00:06:36] <umccullough> wasn't too bad actually
[00:06:53] <umccullough> i mean, as good as sour cream and chef boyardee could possibly get i suppose
[00:07:05] * JonathanThompson doesn't eat sour cream in its natural state
[00:07:15] <JonathanThompson> If that's a "natural" state most people eat it in...
[00:07:33] <JonathanThompson> As a part of flavoring on things like chips, I may.
[00:07:39] <JonathanThompson> But as whole sour cream?  No way!
[00:09:21] <umccullough> really, the "cheese" was more cream-cheese consistency
[00:09:35] * JonathanThompson wonders if the battery in his car is the OEM battery still...
[00:09:35] <umccullough> i poured most of the liquid down the drain
[00:09:46] <umccullough> is it less than 8 years old?
[00:09:56] <umccullough> 7 years actually
[00:09:57] <JonathanThompson> I suspect it is, in which case, I should look at replacing it pre-emptively.
[00:10:08] <JonathanThompson> 2001, sat a lot of time in used car lots, I'm betting.
[00:10:10] <umccullough> most OEM batteries are 84-month now
[00:10:22] <JonathanThompson> Doesn't mean I can't reasonably expect it to die soon.
[00:10:27] <umccullough> yeah
[00:10:41] <JonathanThompson> About 70K miles on the car.
[00:10:48] <umccullough> summer months can be brutal if the battery isn't sealed well
[00:10:53] <umccullough> evaporation and all
[00:11:01] <JonathanThompson> While it isn't too hot in this area, still, things age.
[00:11:08] <JonathanThompson> And it isn't always cool here, either.
[00:11:11] <umccullough> oh right...you live up "there"
[00:11:27] <JonathanThompson> Just a couple hours drive away from North Montana ;)
[00:22:43] <umccullough> i think i'm going to resurrect the Haiku webserver
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[01:00:17] <umccullough> trac is sloooow
[01:02:08] <stpere> umccullough: that's because I'm uploading a 1GB patch ;-)
[01:02:14] <stpere> hehe, kidding
[01:02:39] <umccullough> heh
[01:03:02] <umccullough> I believe trac has a memory leak that makes it slow after time - i seem to recall that last time it happened, it was restarted to fix it
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[01:13:29] <stpere> oops, by default, the image doesn't have a default timezone .. :-|
[01:13:43] <stpere> that explain one crash I had
[01:14:52] <umccullough> nice
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[01:29:51] <AnEvilYak> stpere: really? it defaults to Paris here
[01:30:51] <AnEvilYak> I explicitly have a rule to override that here
[01:31:59] <umccullough> eieio is how i always remembered it :P
[01:32:25] <AnEvilYak> yeah, I don't actually know the PPC instruction set so well, wasn't sure if there were others or not
[01:32:27] <umccullough> AnEvilYak, i think the UserBuildConfig had a rule to override it TO Paris
[01:32:46] <AnEvilYak> umccullough: I explicitly override it to CDT here
[01:32:53] <umccullough> mine starts off empty if I don't set it in the UserBuidlConfig
[01:33:10] <umccullough> there was an example in the UserBuildConfig on how to set it to Paris
[01:33:35] <umccullough> at least, it shows up empty in the date/time pref
[01:34:06] <umccullough> ok well - i'm putting this core 2 duo box back together finally...
[01:34:18] <umccullough> guess i'll put xubuntu on it and use it for haiku testing also :)
[01:34:47] <umccullough> has a gma3100 chipset
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[01:45:32] * DaaT pets cherrypie
[01:50:50] <stpere> AnEvilYak: hmm
[01:51:21] <stpere> AnEvilYak: I said that because in "Time", the region menu field is empty by default
[01:51:27] <stpere> maybe in effect it is GMT
[01:51:34] <DeadYak> no, mine used to explicitly say Paris
[01:51:37] <stpere> but it's not displayed
[01:51:38] <DeadYak> I swear I didn't have a rule in place for that
[01:51:42] <stpere> oh
[01:51:45] <stpere> hmm
[01:51:52] <DeadYak> I might be wrong though
[01:51:52] <stpere> then I'm confused
[01:51:55] <umccullough> i seem to recall that it used to say paris also
[01:52:02] <umccullough> i wonder if that got changed
[01:52:02] <DeadYak> maybe someone removed that default
[01:52:04] <DeadYak> I swear it used to
[01:52:07] * DeadYak looks
[02:05:12] <DeadYak> not sure right now :/
[02:08:28] <stpere> night
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[02:18:36] <erika14212> hi all
[02:30:15] <DeadYak> hiya
[02:31:18] <erika14212> i see haiku coming along nicely
[02:32:36] <erika14212> maybe at the end of the year a beta will be out
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[02:33:28] <DeadYak> we'll see :)
[02:34:11] <erika14212> i like syllable also
[02:35:34] * cherrypie pets DeadYak
[02:36:15] <erika14212> ok
[02:36:32] <DeadYak> cherrypie: how's life?
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[02:37:53] <cherrypie> DeadYak: pretty ok, a little tired this morning
[02:38:22] <DeadYak> cherrypie: I hear ya
[02:38:58] <cherrypie> in a break from medication starting today, so will feel run down for a while I expect
[02:39:04] <DeadYak> ah
[02:39:14] <DeadYak> getting off it permanently or..  ?
[02:39:25] <cherrypie> nah it cycles 4 days on, 4 days off
[02:39:28] <DeadYak> ah
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[02:39:53] <cherrypie> it's a steroid part of the chemo, it makes me feel like I've been drinking coffee all day
[02:40:22] <cherrypie> break starts today so will feel less energy for 4 days
[02:40:59] <cherrypie> on the plus side, swelling in my leg is down from the dvt.... clot slowly dissolving
[02:41:28] <cherrypie> so bit of general improvment in comfort
[02:41:43] <cherrypie> I might disconnect this mac and go hook it up in the living room
[02:42:00] <DeadYak> good to hear the clot's dissolving
[02:42:05] <cherrypie> yup
[02:42:07] <cherrypie> mega clot
[02:42:14] <DeadYak> any idea how long you'll have to be on chemo for that?
[02:42:18] <cherrypie> from just above my ankle to just below my kidney
[02:42:23] <DeadYak> jesus
[02:43:02] <cherrypie> clot is like an associated issue with the cancer... chemo I'll probably be on and off for most of the rest of the year I guess
[02:43:26] <cherrypie> see how long until I'm ready for stem cell implantation
[02:43:52] <cherrypie> could be over by July/August
[02:43:57] <cherrypie> if all goes to plan
[02:44:38] <cherrypie> just depends on how much suppression I get, how long it takes and then how long to prepare for stem cell implant
[02:45:23] <cherrypie> brb anyway
[02:45:34] <cherrypie> I'm going to hook this system up elsewhere
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[02:51:24] <cherrypie> better
[02:51:59] <cherrypie> except for crappy keyboard while batteries charge on the wireless one
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[02:58:19] <ddew|bofh> heh, i seriously need my head checked. when "normal" people are distro-hopping i'm os-hopping
[02:58:56] <DeadYak> cherrypie: wb :)
[02:58:58] <ddew|bofh> i've only been running os x for a few weeks and already i'm bored with it.
[02:59:08] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: hah
[02:59:37] <ddew|bofh> to be fair though, it's the same with every os i've tried so far
[02:59:39] <Roey> hello
[02:59:42] <Roey> question:
[03:00:10] <Roey> None of hte images since the start of April work for me in KEMU
[03:00:11] <Roey> er
[03:00:12] <Roey> KVM
[03:00:25] <Roey> they just get to the OS startup screen and then reset back to BIOS
[03:00:28] <Roey> in a loop
[03:00:42] <ddew|bofh> it's a known problem with kvm
[03:00:45] <DeadYak> I didn't think anyone was really testing them in KVM to be honest
[03:00:46] <Roey> oh... ok.
[03:00:53] <Roey> DeadYak:  what were they doing then, running it natively?
[03:01:04] <ddew|bofh> your best bet is to use vmware or virtualbox
[03:01:06] <Roey> ok
[03:01:25] <ddew|bofh> virtualbox needs HW acceleration though, but most newer cpus has it
[03:01:34] <Roey> what components make haiku different than "just another distribution" of gnu/linux?
[03:01:36] <cherrypie> thanks Rene
[03:01:44] <Roey> hmm
[03:01:47] <Roey> maybe bochs can run it then
[03:01:50] <Roey> (full emulation)
[03:02:01] <ddew|bofh> haiku isn't linux
[03:02:24] <ddew|bofh> it's an improved clone of beos r5
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[03:02:32] <Roey> ddew|bofh:  I thought it uses the linux kernel
[03:02:35] <Roey> does it use libc?
[03:02:36] <geist> nope
[03:02:39] <Roey> oh... ok
[03:03:03] <Roey> ohhh, I got confused earlier.
[03:03:06] <Roey> so you wrote your own kernel?
[03:03:10] <geist> yep
[03:03:55] <Roey> aye gotcha
[03:04:13] <Roey> I'll save you guys the FAQs
[03:04:27] <ddew|bofh> hehe
[03:04:37] <Roey> :)
[03:04:43] <Roey> do you plan on fixing this kvm issue
[03:04:55] <geist> what is kvm?
[03:05:00] <DeadYak> kernel virtual machine
[03:05:01] <DeadYak> linux thing
[03:05:14] <ddew|bofh> i think it's a KVM problem more than a Haiku problem actually
[03:05:15] <geist> oh. does it do a full system emulation or does it require guest support?
[03:05:41] <geist> if it's the former, then it's technically kvm's problem, though sometimes you can meet halfway
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[03:05:52] <Roey> #kvm exists here
[03:05:58] <DeadYak> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-linux-kvm/
[03:06:03] <ddew|bofh> it's pretty much hw accelerated qemu
[03:06:14] <DeadYak> geist: looks like it's a hypervisor
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[03:07:20] <geist> i see
[03:07:51] <shackan> kvm is basically an hardware-accelerated qemu
[03:08:09] <geist> so it does full system emulation, including emulated hardware?
[03:08:15] <ddew|bofh> yup
[03:08:29] <shackan> I guess so
[03:08:56] <Roey> btw... so what apps can this run?
[03:08:58] <Roey> er,
[03:09:03] <Roey> better phrased:
[03:09:17] <Coldfirex03> Hows the freebsd compatibility (network adapters) working lately?
[03:09:18] <Roey> is there new app development going on for beos/haiku at this moment
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[03:09:46] <DeadYak> Roey: most of that is waiting for it to be stable enough to do full development in it
[03:09:59] <Roey> ok
[03:10:06] <DeadYak> Coldfirex03: for the drivers that use it, works fine...don't think there's really been anything new on that front in a while
[03:10:17] <Roey> and how big of an issue is it to port from, say, KDE's libraries to Haiku's?
[03:10:23] <shackan> DeadYak: what happened to hugo?
[03:10:35] <DeadYak> Roey: that'd be a lot of work
[03:10:37] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: isn't 8139 using that layer?
[03:10:40] <DeadYak> Roey: Haiku doesn't use X11 at all
[03:10:50] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: 8139, ipro100, nforce and a few others
[03:11:13] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: in that case i'd be hard pressed to say that it works ;)
[03:11:14] <Coldfirex03> DeakYak: ahh, so each driver needs to be adapted to the compatibility layer?
[03:11:15] <shackan> Qt is happy without X11 already, at least on windows, and when configured with raw framebuffer support
[03:11:24] <DeadYak> Coldfirex03: indeed
[03:11:36] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: nforce works flawlessly for me
[03:11:39] <Roey> DeadYak:  ok.  I mean, KDE apps don't use xlib directly ya know ;)
[03:11:52] <Roey> if anything it'd be Qt that must be porte
[03:11:53] <Roey> ported.
[03:11:58] <shackan> right
[03:12:08] <Roey> I am interested in syllable and haiku as gnu/linux alternatives
[03:12:18] <Roey> they both seem to be at mature stages
[03:12:21] <shackan> you gotta be kidding
[03:12:22] <Roey> (as in, stable)
[03:12:26] <Roey> what do you mean?
[03:12:29] <DeadYak> Haiku isn't even alpha yet
[03:12:34] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: perhaps it uses a different subset of the layer than 8139 and the epro1000 driver. both of those fail miserably here
[03:12:35] <Roey> shackan:  I haven't ever tried Haiku..
[03:12:46] <DeadYak> also, it's not really intended to be yet another distro to run your typical linux DE on
[03:12:50] <Roey> DeadYak:  what are your hopes--just to re-capture the existing beos userbase?
[03:13:01] <Roey> DeadYak:  ok
[03:13:03] <DeadYak> Roey: that + make a userfriendly OS aimed at desktops
[03:13:13] <Roey> oh ok
[03:13:14] <shackan> I guess the plan is to write good software, people will follow, hopefully
[03:13:23] <Roey> DeadYak:  how do you plan to offer interoperability with other OSes?
[03:13:31] <DeadYak> Roey: in what aspect?
[03:13:33] <ddew|bofh> if you build it, they will come ;)
[03:14:02] <Roey> would you see an X11 server for Haiku?
[03:14:13] <Roey> (note, server/client are reversed in X11, so I really mean client)
[03:14:17] <DeadYak> *shrug* I could see someone writing a rootless one if they're interested
[03:14:21] <DeadYak> personally I'd have zero use for it
[03:14:58] <Roey> ok
[03:15:14] <Roey> /are/ there applications for beos?
[03:15:17] <DeadYak> www.bebits.com
[03:15:19] <DeadYak> see for yourself
[03:15:20] <Roey> or is it a very very >niche< thing
[03:15:48] <Roey> DeadYak:  ah, I see there are.
[03:15:57] <Roey> I wonder how much of an impact BeOS made in the commercial world
[03:16:02] <Roey> (photoshop, etc.)
[03:16:09] <Roey> were there any ports of popular windows software?
[03:16:54] <DeadYak> mm, there were some AV tools that were close, right around when Be went under
[03:17:06] <DeadYak> one of the Steinberg apps I think
[03:17:13] <DeadYak> don't remember if it was Cubase or Fluendo or which though
[03:17:21] <DeadYak> been a while
[03:17:29] <Roey> ah
[03:17:39] <Roey> is Haiku stable at all?
[03:17:43] <Roey> is its API frozen?
[03:17:50] <Roey> (ABI for that matter?)
[03:18:16] <DeadYak> pretty much, first release of Haiku aims to be source and binary compatible with BeOS 5's API, with some extra additions
[03:18:43] <Roey> ok
[03:18:51] <Roey> are any BeOS devs looking at Haiku at all
[03:18:59] <Roey> have you gotten feedback from the original BeOS devs?
[03:19:07] <Roey> or suppport from Be?
[03:19:16] <DeadYak> Be haven't existed for 7 years now.
[03:19:18] <DeadYak> so that'd be hard.
[03:20:05] <DeadYak> as for BeOS devs, I think there were a few of 'em at the google tech talk that seemed excited, I'm not sure though since I wasn't there
[03:20:17] <Roey> oh ok
[03:20:37] <Roey> well good luck with your project! :)
[03:20:40] <DeadYak> thanks :)
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[03:26:53] <ddew|bofh> heh, just thought of something. one of the reasons i'm so excited about haiku was actually one of the selling point for beos.
[03:27:06] <ddew|bofh> it makes programming fun again :)
[03:27:23] <DeadYak> :)
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[03:27:49] <ddew|bofh> just not because it's a new api but also because there aren't three billion apps doing the same thing already
[03:28:18] * mmadia is happy when there's 1 app doing some thing already  ;)
[03:28:24] <ddew|bofh> filling a "void" is way more gratifying than reinventing the wheel
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[03:33:36] <ddew|bofh> hmm, wonder if bring handbrake up to date on haiku is feasible
[03:35:56] <DaaT> or transmission
[03:36:01] <DaaT> (more useful I think)
[03:36:25] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i took a look at it but it needs a pretty recent version of python
[03:37:38] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: duaneb's a good chunk of the way to porting Python iirc
[03:37:45] <DeadYak> (latest rev)
[03:37:57] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: you'd have to ask him how that's going
[03:38:22] <Roey> ooh, python
[03:38:25] <ddew|bofh> i know, been seeing his post on the ML.
[03:38:34] <Roey> are there beos bindings for python?
[03:38:54] <DeadYak> Roey: Bethon, yes.
[03:39:12] <Roey> interesting
[03:39:26] <DeadYak> http://www.bebits.com/app/1564
[03:43:51] <ddew|bofh> hmm, got it building by massaging the configure script
[03:43:56] <anarchos> is transmission for beos the same as transmission for mac os x?
[03:44:09] <anarchos> cuz i gotta say, the latest transmission for os x is pretty sweet
[03:44:34] <DaaT> anarchos, yes, though we don't have the latest version
[03:45:09] <anarchos> yeah i was playing with the version included on the vmware images, and i didnt recognize it at all, lol (besides the name)
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[03:46:18] <anarchos> but, speaking of BT, i was just thinking it would be sick if someone (ie: not me because i cant code) made a "download" kit, with various add-ons (bt, http, ftp, etc) for beos
[03:46:37] <anarchos> would be cool to have it "integrated" (as much as im_kit is, anyways) into the OS
[03:47:27] <anarchos> would fit in nicely with netpositive, once that starts up
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[03:47:50] <DaaT> could be useful for apps auto-updating
[03:48:05] <anarchos> and if anyone comes out with an update system for apps, too
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[03:48:19] <anarchos> heh, i guess we think alike ;)
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[03:49:09] <DaaT> :)
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[03:49:41] <absabs> good morning
[03:49:50] <Coldfirex03> anarchos: you can compile the source for to run the latest via shell
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[03:51:11] <anarchos> Coldfirex03: unfourtunatly i cant get networking going under vmware/parallels/qemu, and haiku, afaik, doesnt work on a mac book, so im kinda stuck (would be nice if they included some sort of hsf+ driver on the images, so i could mount my hdd and grab files from osx)
[03:51:30] <anarchos> so im limited to what comes on the image :P
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[03:52:29] <Coldfirex03> tried vmplayer 2?
[03:54:11] <anarchos> afaik, vmplayer isnt for osx, i tried the newest vmware fusion, i think
[03:54:52] <Coldfirex03> ahh, osx
[03:55:30] <Coldfirex03> virtualize ubuntu or windows and then use vmware in there to virtualize haiku :p
[03:55:50] <anarchos> haha
[03:56:50] <anarchos> i think qemu should work in theory, but all i can find for osx is some funky version with a gui grafted on top, and all the instructions i can find are for passing command line options to it, to get networking going, but it wont accept any of them when i try to run from the terminal
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[03:57:37] <anarchos> and i spent like 5 hours trying to do it, now im over it...hopeing the macbook bounty gets taken up
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[03:57:52] <anarchos> and speaking of that, i should donate to it, instead of being a freeloader...
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[03:58:15] <Coldfirex03> tried a static ip i assume?
[03:59:32] <ddew|bofh> fusion works fine with haiku here
[04:00:16] <ddew|bofh> using the ipro1000 nic
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[04:01:06] <anarchos> ddew|bofh: what kind of network setting do you use under haiku?
[04:01:59] <ddew|bofh> bridged with a dhcp server on the physical network
[04:04:32] <anarchos> hmm, so haiku actually uses the dhcp server from your router, or do you have one running in osx?
[04:05:27] <ddew|bofh> actually i don't have a dhcp server turned on in my router, it's using the one i set up on one of my servers. but it's using the "real" one, not something i've set up in os x
[04:06:29] <anarchos> hmm not sure why it didnt work for me then, cuz that's what i tried :P
[04:06:53] <ddew|bofh> maybe you're using an older version of fusion?
[04:08:13] <anarchos> downloaded it approx 4 days ago :P
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[04:08:25] <anarchos> ill give it another shot sometime (ive since deleted it)
[04:08:39] <ddew|bofh> hang on, i'll post my ethernet section of the vmx file
[04:08:51] <ddew|bofh> ethernet0.present= "true"
[04:08:51] <ddew|bofh> ethernet0.startConnected = "true"
[04:08:52] <ddew|bofh> ethernet0.virtualDev = "e1000"
[04:08:52] <ddew|bofh> ethernet0.connectionType = "bridged"
[04:09:04] <ddew|bofh> the e1000 bit makes all the difference
[04:09:24] <umccullough> yeah, the vlance driver is crap
[04:09:45] <umccullough> some people have better luck with "nat" rather than bridged
[04:09:45] <anarchos> ok cheers :D
[04:09:46] <ddew|bofh> i think vmware on mac uses pcnet32 by default
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[04:10:04] <umccullough> vlance is pcnet32
[04:10:11] <umccullough> it's an amd chip
[04:10:26] <umccullough> the one that's special is vmxnet
[04:10:42] <ddew|bofh> ah, thanks for clearing it up
[04:12:30] <ddew|bofh> haiku in fusion is quite stable actually, i've not had a single crash on it i couldn't replicate on real hw
[04:13:07] <ddew|bofh> unlike say virtualbox which crashes when i fart in its general direction
[04:13:21] <anarchos> parallels is pretty stable it seems
[04:13:40] <anarchos> besides it crashes on boot if you enable the "connect network cable at startup" option :P
[04:14:12] <umccullough> yeah, that uses the ne2k driver which I think is funky at the moment :P
[04:14:25] <umccullough> unless i'm thinking of qemu
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[04:14:38] <umccullough> wb DeadYak
[04:14:45] <DeadYak> thanks
[04:16:08] <anarchos> so yak, whatcha upto these days? anything new and exciting?
[04:16:54] <umccullough> anarchos, isn't qemu for OS X just called "Q" or something?
[04:17:09] * umccullough is reading back through the log
[04:17:30] <DeadYak> anarchos: nothing special
[04:17:41] <anarchos> umccullough: yeah.
[04:18:02] <DeadYak> I always get confused as to if it's you or the belgian guy that uses the same nick
[04:18:32] <anarchos> someone jacked my nick name? :/
[04:18:51] <anarchos> but it is me, the real anarchos! i dont like waffles..
[04:19:12] <DeadYak> well, there's a belgian guy who uses the same nick who comes here
[04:19:21] <umccullough> really?
[04:19:25] <umccullough> that sucks
[04:19:30] <DeadYak> umccullough: yeah, Anarchos with capital A
[04:19:40] <umccullough> yeah, i've seen that nick
[04:20:05] <anarchos> thats pretty random, two people with the same not-so-common nickname who like beos, heh
[04:20:26] <anarchos> anarchists ftw
[04:20:54] <ddew|bofh> "Anarchists unite!"
[04:20:58] <ddew|bofh> :P
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[04:21:49] <scottmc> hey
[04:22:02] <umccullough> hi scottmc
[04:22:09] <Coldfirex03> any idea if you will still have to jump through hoops to install R1 (as opposed to installing directly from CD or something)?  Or would that be a post-R1 thing?
[04:22:23] <DeadYak> R1 will have a real CD installer
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[04:22:38] <umccullough> it better :P
[04:22:41] <DeadYak> it's just not a priority right now since it's not really encouraged to play around with it if you don't know what you're doing with a pre-alpha OS
[04:22:52] <Coldfirex03> Cool, so no needing to a linux or using Max correct?
[04:22:55] <DeadYak> especially on live hardware since it's still entirely possible it could trash a disk or whatever.
[04:22:56] <DeadYak> yes.
[04:22:56] <scottmc> just got through trying to compile 7zip4.57 and it seems to have worked
[04:22:59] <Coldfirex03> ya, i understand that
[04:23:10] <scottmc> on haiku
[04:23:16] <DeadYak> scottmc: yep
[04:23:19] <DeadYak> scottmc: nice :)
[04:23:24] <DeadYak> scottmc: tried it on any files?
[04:23:34] <Coldfirex03> scottmc: need any modification?
[04:23:59] <scottmc> no mods, just need to use the beos instructions, and then make all3
[04:24:10] <umccullough> upload it to haikuware if it works :)
[04:24:15] <Coldfirex03> awesom4
[04:24:56] <DeadYak> I don't think I've ever really seen 7zip in use much...what's the theoretical benefit over other compression algos?
[04:25:00] <scottmc> i'll try it soon to see if i can 7zip the files it created and then ftp them out of haiku.  all commandline
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[04:25:52] <scottmc> i think it just sqeezes out a few more % than the others do.
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[04:26:29] <scottmc> but you'll lose attributes and file permissions and such as it's mostly aimed at windows.
[04:26:40] <scottmc> they warn you to use tar first if using it in linux
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[04:28:28] <scottmc> i'm getting the beos 7zip from bebits to see how they packaged things
[04:29:12] <anarchos> i hate 7zip, so inconvient, heh
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[04:30:51] <anarchos> seems someone has made a rfc for a download kit in the glass elevator section already :)
[04:31:05] <umccullough> DeadYak, i use 7z a lot on windows
[04:31:22] <umccullough> it's as good as (possibly better) bzip2
[04:31:30] <umccullough> ^than
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[05:14:04] <anarchos> do i have to do anything special to get dhcp going under haiku? i opened the network prefs and changed it from static to dhcp, but it doesnt seem to be doing anything
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[05:16:27] <DeadYak> just worked for me
[05:16:35] <DeadYak> there's some dhcp servers it seems to not play nicely with currently though
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[05:17:44] <anarchos> i change it to dhcp, click apply, close the pref applet, re-open it, and it's changed back to static...
[05:17:49] <anarchos> gur!
[05:18:10] <DeadYak> what chipset are you using it with?
[05:19:35] <scottmc> if unsure, type listdev in a terminal and it should show you
[05:20:36] <umccullough> yeah, the net prefs dialog sucks
[05:20:48] <umccullough> best is not to not open it in the first place :)
[05:21:20] <anarchos> welp i have ethernet0.virtualDev = "e1000" in vmware settings, and haiku is showing....
[05:21:47] <umccullough> you're probably fine then - if you ls /dev/net you should see a ipro1000
[05:21:55] <anarchos> dev 100f:82545EM gigabit ethernet
[05:22:08] <umccullough> did you set it up bridged or nat?
[05:22:15] <anarchos> bridged
[05:22:22] <umccullough> nat will use the vmware built-in dhcp
[05:22:25] <umccullough> that usually works
[05:22:35] <umccullough> the host becomes the gateway
[05:22:54] <anarchos> yeah i get ipro1000 in /dev/net
[05:23:03] <anarchos> ok ill give that a shot
[05:23:19] <umccullough> i'm not sure if messing with the net prefs permanently sets it in static ip mode
[05:23:55] <umccullough> probably a config file somewhere in /etc that you can kill if that's the case
[05:26:21] <scottmc> any of you guys in haiku right now?
[05:26:31] <DeadYak> AnEvilYak is
[05:26:44] <DeadYak> whatcha need?
[05:26:59] <anarchos> hey hey!
[05:27:04] <anarchos> setting vmware to nat works
[05:27:04] <umccullough> i could be quickly ;)
[05:27:15] <umccullough> anarchos, good deal :)
[05:27:18] <anarchos> thanks a heaps
[05:27:22] <scottmc> if you'd like to try out 7zip for me it's at http://www.bedrivers.com/p7zip-haiku-4_57.zip
[05:27:34] <DeadYak> one sec..
[05:27:36] <umccullough> ooh, i can even try it on a 7z file
[05:27:49] <AnEvilYak> let's see...
[05:28:02] <AnEvilYak> was about to ask if someone had a .7z for me to try :P
[05:28:05] <scottmc> there's three files, 7z, 7za, and 7zr, not sure what difference there is between them
[05:28:06] <umccullough> heh
[05:28:22] <umccullough> actually, i'm gonna grab it and put it in my image build stuffs
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[05:28:30] <umccullough> scottmc, do i just unzip it to /boot?
[05:28:50] *** HaikuwareUser is now known as Anarchosku
[05:28:55] <AnEvilYak> hrm...
[05:28:59] <scottmc> i tried making an archive with each, but after the third one it stopped at 59% and said unable to allocat memory, and now they all say that here.  i might have to reboot
[05:29:01] <AnEvilYak> umccullough: unzip to ~/config/bin
[05:29:04] <Anarchosku> funkin' aye, vision brings back memories
[05:29:05] <Anarchosku> :D
[05:29:17] <AnEvilYak> scottmc: built with gcc2 I'm guessing?
[05:29:24] <scottmc> yup
[05:29:28] <AnEvilYak> that explains that
[05:29:31] <scottmc> you on 4?
[05:29:36] <AnEvilYak> yeah
[05:29:37] <umccullough> oh right ;)
[05:29:38] <AnEvilYak> was doing a stability test
[05:29:39] <AnEvilYak>  ~> 7zruntime_loader: cannot open file libstdc++.r4.so
[05:29:40] <AnEvilYak>
[05:29:40] <umccullough> ok, let me grab it
[05:31:37] <scottmc> do any of the command line compression utils save attributes?
[05:31:58] <umccullough> tar :P
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[05:32:07] <umccullough> i think haiku's zip does, doesn't it?
[05:32:54] <umccullough> hang on, i'm building the latest code onto my partition
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[05:34:05] <DeadYak> haiku's zip does, yes.
[05:34:15] <DeadYak> .too late
[05:34:18] <umccullough> yeah :(
[05:34:58] <Anarchosku> wow even sliding tabs works :D
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[05:35:08] <umccullough> heh
[05:35:20] <umccullough> Anarchosku, been a while since you checked out Haiku?
[05:36:00] <Anarchosku> first time since way back in the day, it crashed every time after 3 seconds
[05:36:02] <umccullough> damn, i'm installing too much stuff on my haiku partition these days :/
[05:36:15] <umccullough> takes FOREVER to populate
[05:36:40] <scottmc> you have everything turned on now as well? heh
[05:36:49] <Anarchosku> and before that, i used r5 for a long time, with bone, iirc
[05:37:07] <umccullough> scottmc, no actually - but I have a bunch of zip files that i unzip to it :)
[05:37:11] <DeadYak> sliding tabs has worked for a *long* time.
[05:37:13] <Anarchosku> never got into the whole dano/zeta thing
[05:37:26] <DeadYak> scottmc: and yes, command line zip stores attrs
[05:38:08] <Anarchosku> haha, gl teapot
[05:38:26] <umccullough> and that's probably VESA mode even
[05:38:26] * Anarchosku sheds a tear for old times sake
[05:38:37] <umccullough> unless the Haikuware version has the "broken" vmware video driver on it
[05:38:53] <AnEvilYak> umccullough: impressively, in gcc4 I get 500fps out of GLTeapot in VESA
[05:39:00] <umccullough> holy crap :D
[05:39:03] <umccullough> fast machine though ;)
[05:39:04] <AnEvilYak> umccullough: I dunno what Ingo did, but it made it a fuckload faster
[05:39:07] <umccullough> nice
[05:39:13] <scottmc> cool
[05:39:18] <umccullough> i noticed it was a little snappier recently as well
[05:39:21] <AnEvilYak> actually I take that back, it was Chart I get 500 out of
[05:39:26] <AnEvilYak> GLTeapot I'm getting 230 at
[05:39:29] <umccullough> ok
[05:39:32] <umccullough> that's better ;)
[05:39:39] <AnEvilYak> still, 230 for software...
[05:39:40] <umccullough> but VESA still...
[05:39:42] <AnEvilYak> with VESA...
[05:39:45] <umccullough> nice
[05:39:55] <AnEvilYak> I should try gcc2, I have hw accel there.
[05:39:59] <umccullough> i get like 200fps with the intel_extreme on my i865
[05:40:00] <Anarchosku> im getting 230-250 in a virtual machine
[05:40:07] <AnEvilYak> radeon driver misbehaves in gcc4 so I can't use hw accel :/
[05:40:23] <umccullough> someone should fix that ;)
[05:41:07] <DeadYak> I think Euan's still trying to get various weirdness about his box working
[05:42:02] <Anarchosku> how can i tell what video driver im using?
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[05:42:11] <Anarchosku> i cant remember, its been a long time, heh
[05:42:40] <scottmc> ls /dev/graphics i think
[05:43:14] <scottmc> mine is vesa, but i'm in vmware on this pc
[05:43:27] <Anarchosku> oh noes tracker has frozen
[05:44:03] <umccullough> hmm... it doesn't like my archive :(
[05:44:11] <umccullough> oh wait - i have vision running :P
[05:44:23] <umccullough_h> i'm getting an error trying to extract
[05:44:41] <umccullough_h>  Processing archive: TestPics.7z
[05:44:41] <umccullough_h>
[05:44:42] <umccullough_h>  Error: Can not open file as archive
[05:44:55] <Anarchosku> does vision have a /run command or something so i can restart tracker? i suppose i could just reboot
[05:44:57] <scottmc> try the all three utils?
[05:45:02] <umccullough_h> not yet
[05:45:20] <umccullough_h> oh
[05:45:21] <umccullough_h> 7zr works
[05:45:27] <scottmc> ctrl-alt-del and restart it
[05:45:53] <umccullough_h> 7za also works
[05:45:55] <umccullough_h> weird
[05:46:10] <Anarchosku> this may sound dumb, but what keys correspond to ctrl-alt-del on a mac? :P
[05:46:13] <scottmc> i need to find out what 7z, 7za and 7zr all do
[05:46:23] <umccullough_h> ctrl-option-del?
[05:46:29] <Anarchosku> nope
[05:46:33] <umccullough_h> ctrl-command-del
[05:46:42] <umccullough_h> i dunno :)
[05:46:43] <Anarchosku> nope
[05:46:44] <Anarchosku> heh
[05:46:45] <umccullough_h> you're in vmware?
[05:46:49] <Anarchosku> si
[05:46:51] <umccullough_h> there's an option to "send ctrl-alt-delete"
[05:46:56] <umccullough_h> check the menus
[05:46:59] <Anarchosku> ok thanks
[05:47:17] <umccullough_h> usually it requires you to press ctrl-alt-insert anyway
[05:47:27] <umccullough_h> at least, vmware on windows does
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[05:49:58] <HaikuwareUser> send ctrl alt del crashed the input server im assuming, heh
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[05:50:07] <umccullough_h> scottmc so it works - i wonder how 7z is supposed to do its thing?
[05:50:20] <umccullough_h> is it supposed to call 7zr or 7za depending on the input?
[05:50:35] <umccullough_h> both of those seemed to work for extract
[05:50:44] <scottmc> i don't know yet, going to have to do some reading i guess
[05:50:49] <umccullough_h> :)
[05:51:04] <umccullough_h> anyhow, a 7z file with a couple pics unzipped fine - and i could view the pics
[05:51:18] <scottmc> did the 7zip on bebits have a gui?
[05:51:48] <scottmc> i tried to download and install on haiku but it's an invalid pkg file
[05:52:11] <DeadYak> anarchosku: /pexec
[05:52:22] <DeadYak> actually
[05:52:23] <umccullough_h> scottmc i think there's a way to add archivers to expander
[05:52:27] <DeadYak> don't use that one, that'll print debug output to IRC
[05:52:37] <anarchosku> heh
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[05:52:38] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Kokito
[05:52:39] <DeadYak> you can open a Terminal from Vision though
[05:52:44] <scottmc> i think so too, but need to figure out how to do it
[05:52:45] <DeadYak> it's in one of the menus
[05:52:52] <DeadYak> and just do /system/Tracker & from there
[05:53:11] <anarchosku> ahh, nifty
[05:54:13] <Kokito> hello folks
[05:54:30] <umccullough_h> evening Kokito
[05:54:39] * DeadYak pets Kokito
[05:55:54] * Kokito is installing Ubuntu 8.04-JP in wife's PC
[05:57:58] <umccullough_h> did she have ubuntu before?
[05:58:21] <Kokito> yes, but it was two version behind
[05:58:28] <Kokito> *versions
[05:58:32] <umccullough_h> ah
[05:58:41] <anarchosku> wow, opera for beos, im assuming thats running w/ binary compatability and it hasnt been recompiled?
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[05:58:54] <anarchosku> its so ancient, like going back in time, heh
[05:59:11] <Kokito> anarchosku, you are correct
[05:59:24] <anarchosku> that is very awesome sirs
[06:00:05] <anarchosku> i congradulate you on your efforts
[06:01:11] <anarchosku> congratulate*(did i get it right this time?)
[06:02:10] <Kokito> thank you anarchosku. the people that deserve most to be congratulated are not here though :)
[06:02:39] <anarchosku> Kokito: non the less, way to go :D
[06:02:57] <Kokito> yes, the devs are doing a great job
[06:06:06] <ari-free> hi
[06:11:51] <anarchosku> if one was to donate to a non profit based in the US (hint hint) but the donater was from canada, would they still be able to write that off for tax purposes?
[06:12:10] <DeadYak> anarchosku: that's more a question for canadian law :)
[06:12:20] <DeadYak> which I unfortunately can't help you with
[06:12:34] <DeadYak> seeing as they're the ones that'd have to grant you the tax write-off
[06:12:36] <anarchosku> wha?  you're deadyak, you know everything! ;)
[06:12:48] <anarchosku> just thought someone might know off hand
[06:12:49] <DeadYak> I know jack about the canadian legal system :P
[06:13:30] <anarchosku> im very upset with the canadian tax man right now :P
[06:13:55] <anarchosku> they are making me pay taxes here in canada for when i worked in the US
[06:14:09] <anarchosku> you sneaky americans somehow informed them :P
[06:15:04] <anarchosku> hopefully new zealand isn't a squealer like the US too, or i may be fucked :P
[06:15:21] <DeadYak> anarchosku: the US does that to its citizens too
[06:15:42] <ari-free> most govts like taxes
[06:15:50] <DeadYak> a lot of countries expect their citizens to pay taxes even when not living in the country
[06:16:02] <ari-free> when will they ever learn...
[06:16:08] <Monni> damn capitalists ;)
[06:16:13] <anarchosku> i was hopeing to avoid the taxes because a) they suck, and b) i havent even lived in canada for like 3 years (besides the last 6 months)...
[06:17:20] <anarchosku> its not so bad in the US since i got most of my tax back, so im not really paying double tax, but if they find out about new zealand im gonna be screwed, because new zealand will give foreigners all the tax back when they leave, but you can never go back to work there ever again if you do
[06:17:49] <anarchosku> so if i gotta pay double taxes on that shit, i may have to skip the country and never come back, just out of principal
[06:18:30] <ari-free> that is a problem for new zealand because until Lord of the Rings, the only tourist attraction was lots of sheep
[06:18:39] <Monni> lol
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[06:19:11] <ari-free> fortunately for new zealand, haiku supporters love sheep
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[06:19:47] <Monni> or it is the other way around :)
[06:20:02] * DeadYak points at ICO
[06:20:06] <ari-free> http://www.iscomputeron.com
[06:20:09] <anarchosku> heh
[06:20:12] <DeadYak> where's DaaT when you need him
[06:20:14] <Monni> erf
[06:21:01] <anarchosku> what's so special about ico? am i missing something? heh
[06:21:03] <Monni> someone locked DaaT in basement ;)?
[06:21:25] <ari-free> everything has to be so special?
[06:21:26] <DeadYak> anarchosku: notice the sheep in the logo
[06:21:27] <Monni> ICO is just wannabe copycat of BeOSJournal aka whatever...
[06:21:34] <anarchosku> ooh, heh
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[06:21:45] <DeadYak> Monni: um, DaaT used to write for TBJ back when it existed.
[06:21:48] <anarchosku> i gotta say, nz does have a lot of sheep :)
[06:22:03] <anarchosku> i almost hit a giant flock of them on an ATV at work last year
[06:22:10] <Monni> DeadYak: Last time I checked, TBJ did still exist...
[06:22:27] <DeadYak> Monni: beosjournal.org certainly does not
[06:22:36] <anarchosku> i also stepped *in* a dead one while walking
[06:22:38] <DeadYak> and no, haikunews is not TBJ
[06:22:43] <ari-free> there was a plan to have an actual magazine
[06:22:48] <Monni> DeadYak: Well... Technix did just shutdown the forum part, rest got renamed...
[06:24:30] <Monni> DeadYak: Well... IMHO it's just a continuation... Not much point in talking about prehistoric operating system, when there is better alternative(s)
[06:24:39] <Monni> bbl... gotta go to work ;)
[06:25:12] <ari-free> prehistoric?
[06:25:15] * ari-free cries
[06:28:46] <anarchosku> is daat from new zealand?
[06:29:04] <DeadYak> nope
[06:29:06] <DeadYak> portugal
[06:29:41] <anarchosku> who was it that was from nz, from #beosghetto
[06:29:53] <DeadYak> umm....
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[06:29:56] <anarchosku> i think it started with an x
[06:29:59] <anarchosku> xyverz
[06:29:59] <DeadYak> Xyverz?
[06:30:06] <DeadYak> didn't know he was .nz
[06:30:10] <anarchosku> yeah, i think hes american now tho, but originally from .nz
[06:30:14] <DeadYak> oh
[06:30:18] * DeadYak pets frankps
[06:30:30] <frankps> Good morning DeadYak
[06:32:10] <DeadYak> how's it going?
[06:35:27] <anarchosku> if i wanted to use im kit, would i use the regular r5 version, the r5+bone version, or the zeta version?
[06:37:09] <DeadYak> r5+bone
[06:37:18] <DeadYak> though I thought mmu_man or some did a Haiku port of it somewhere.
[06:38:56] <anarchosku> i downloaded it from haikuware and it just gives me bone or zeta versions..
[06:41:00] <umccullough> bone stuff should work in haiku
[06:41:12] <umccullough> i use firefox bone version
[06:43:55] <DeadYak> night night
[06:44:01] <umccullough> 'night
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[06:44:27] <Kokito> I didn't think imkit was working in Haiku, but I may be mistaken
[06:46:33] <anarchosku> hmm
[06:46:35] <frankps> It is working, mmu_man and xeD have both gotten it working
[06:46:44] <anarchosku> i need to get to bed, night guys
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[06:55:42] <Kokito> frankps, is the working version released anywhere as a binary?
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[07:02:09] <frankps> Kokito: No clue. Not using Haiku
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[07:15:44] <Kokito> frankps, do you know if this is the same code base as the original imkit?
[07:20:53] <frankps> was just recompiled
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[09:09:54] <Stargater> re
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[09:12:37] <Stargater> moin Teknomancer
[09:13:43] <Teknomancer> morning Stargater
[09:36:14] * JonathanThompson meows at Teknomancer and Stargater
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[09:37:19] <Teknomancer> hi JonathanThompson
[09:37:43] <JonathanThompson> How goes work, Teknomancer?
[09:38:40] <Stargater> jo JonathanThompson
[09:38:47] <Stargater> hi TimKack
[09:38:52] <Teknomancer> yeah fine, as always hectic, but i've come to expect nothing less from a product developing company/division
[09:38:55] * JonathanThompson returns a jo back to Stargater
[09:39:14] <JonathanThompson> Such is the life of software development, Teknomancer ;)
[09:39:25] <TimKack> Hi Stargater
[09:39:56] <Teknomancer> yep, but 90% in india are in the services side, meaning they can get a couple of months of being on the "bench"
[09:40:03] <Teknomancer> while they wait for a project to arrive ;)
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[09:40:27] <Teknomancer> but i guess within their work time they'll probably have more tight deadlines than for a product...
[09:41:08] <Stargater> can anyone me tell how i make a patch file, i have in haiku trunk /src/apps/pairs  and my copy in /boot/home/pairs , now i edit the copy , and now ?
[09:41:36] <Teknomancer> svn diff > file.diff
[09:42:10] <Teknomancer> err, in svn you don't need to make a local copy
[09:42:25] <Stargater> more not ? cool
[09:42:31] <Stargater> thanks
[09:42:57] <Teknomancer> just checkout , do whatever changes you want, then svn diff will show you the diffs
[09:43:21] <Stargater> i have not svn developer account
[09:43:53] <Teknomancer> don't need one for making diffs
[09:44:12] <Stargater> ah ok thanks again
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[10:42:50] <JBurton> hi all
[10:43:58] <Teknomancer> hey JBurton
[10:44:34] <JBurton> hi Teknomancer
[10:53:46] <Stargater> hi JBurton
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[11:43:24] <CIA-52> axeld * r25223 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (7 files):
[11:43:25] <CIA-52> * Merged _Receive() and _SegmentReceived().
[11:43:25] <CIA-52> * Cleanup, shuffled methods around, renamed methods, etc. - no functional changes.
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[12:54:53] <CIA-52> stippi * r25224 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/pairs/ (Jamfile PairsView.cpp PairsView.h):
[12:54:53] <CIA-52> Patch by Ralf Schuelke with changes/fixes by myself:
[12:54:53] <CIA-52> * Pick 8 random icons from the application and preference folders
[12:54:53] <CIA-52> * Pick 8 different icons when the game starts again
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[13:13:10] <ThomHolwerda> well that's odd
[13:13:22] <ThomHolwerda> can anyone hear me in here?
[13:13:42] <ThomHolwerda> all teh intertubes works on my machines, except for webbrowsing :/
[13:13:51] <ThomHolwerda> torrent, IM, both work
[13:13:54] <ThomHolwerda> browsing, a nono
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[13:14:28] <{V}afk> odd
[13:14:29] *** {V}afk is now known as {V}
[13:14:36] <ThomHolwerda> mmm its the name servers
[13:14:43] <ThomHolwerda> well
[13:14:44] <ThomHolwerda> ping works
[13:14:59] <Ingenu> crap I forgot
[13:15:11] <Ingenu> how do I least running process on unix already please ? ^^
[13:15:12] <ThomHolwerda> okidoki, ping just quit too
[13:16:21] <{V}> Ingenu, list ? or least?
[13:17:10] <{V}> Ingenu, perhaps: ps ux
[13:19:29] <{V}> ThomHolwerda, at least it's consistent :p
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[13:21:39] <Ingenu> nice
[13:21:45] <Ingenu> ty {V} !
[13:22:10] <{V}> you're welcome :)
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[13:36:36] <bryguy[lap]> :)
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[13:44:07] <stpere> morning
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[14:01:35] <stpere> hi stippi
[14:02:05] <stippi> hi stpere
[14:03:27] <absabs> hi stippi
[14:03:35] <stippi> hi absabs
[14:03:37] <stippi> hi *
[14:03:38] <stippi> :-)
[14:03:43] <absabs> :)
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[14:03:50] <absabs> hi all
[14:05:41] <stpere> I'm so tired this morning
[14:05:50] <stpere> *yawn*
[14:06:24] <stpere> caffeine doesn't affect me anymore, it seems :)
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[14:15:53] <JBurton> hi stippi
[14:15:55] <JBurton> hi absabs
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[14:16:42] <absabs> hi JBurton
[14:16:50] <absabs> Hi DeadYak
[14:16:59] <JBurton> hi DeadYak
[14:17:01] <DeadYak> hiya
[14:19:53] * DaaT pets DeadYak after a wii fit jogging session
[14:19:54] <DaaT> :P
[14:20:15] <DeadYak> so you're hot and sweaty....and you're petting me
[14:20:16] <DeadYak> ew
[14:20:19] * DeadYak ducks
[14:20:25] <DaaT> you know you want it!!
[14:20:26] <DaaT> :D
[14:20:46] <stpere> haha
[14:21:28] <DeadYak> the game, yes, your sweaty petting, no :P
[14:23:31] <DaaT> :P
[14:30:34] <DaaT> nice workout
[14:30:43] <DaaT> yoga, jogging, muscles and balance
[14:30:44] <DaaT> :)
[14:32:00] * stippi sniffs up into the air and turns head towards Daat
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[14:33:29] * DaaT jogs torwards stippi
[14:33:30] <DaaT> :P
[14:33:46] <DeadYak> hi stippi
[14:33:55] <stippi> hi there
[14:34:22] <stippi> Someone from #ubuntu is helping me make my Notebook work again after I switched the fs to ReiserFS :-)
[14:34:33] <DaaT> cool
[14:34:43] <DaaT> i'll probably try again to install it from the CD
[14:35:17] <DaaT> DeadYak, if it causes the screen to go bonkers again, i'll take a pic :)
[14:35:18] <JBurton> stippi just for trying or for some specific reason ?
[14:35:49] <stippi> ReiserFS is heaps faster for compiling and especially for SVN
[14:36:04] <DaaT> ReiserFS: the "trial" version
[14:36:14] <stippi> especially for SVN up the difference is all but subtle
[14:36:15] <DaaT> any news on his case?
[14:37:27] <JBurton> stippi that's cool
[14:37:32] <JBurton> didn't know that
[14:37:53] <JBurton> it's not that it'd change anything for me, given how much I build haiku lately
[14:38:29] <absabs> I'm using XFS:)
[14:39:00] <JBurton> ext3 here
[14:39:01] <JBurton> :P
[14:39:10] <DaaT> fat32 atm
[14:39:10] <DaaT> :P
[14:39:15] <DeadYak> I'm using XFS here as well
[14:39:19] <DaaT> no, wait
[14:39:20] <DaaT> ntfs
[14:39:24] <DaaT> *slaps forehead*
[14:39:28] <absabs> hahaa
[14:40:20] <DeadYak> that having been said, I did notice that my FreeBSD box with git-svn is several orders of magnitude faster at fetching updates than actual SVN on ubuntu for some reason
[14:40:49] <absabs> IMHO, the only shortcoming of XFS is deleting files is very slow
[14:40:58] <DeadYak> absabs: that's true for BFS also
[14:41:07] <absabs> :)
[14:41:35] * slaad is using it in his PVR, too
[14:41:45] <absabs> what's PVR
[14:41:57] <DeadYak> absabs: digital video recorder
[14:42:00] <slaad> Personal Video Recorder, I believe the acronym is.
[14:42:03] <slaad> But, yeah.
[14:42:10] <DaaT> slaad, using bfs in your pvr? wow
[14:42:15] <slaad> No, no... XFS :P
[14:42:18] <DaaT> :P
[14:42:25] <DaaT> TELL US YOUR SECRET!!
[14:42:37] <slaad> I'm not sure BeOS would handle streaming 6 x DVB-T streams to disk...
[14:42:48] <DaaT> wuss
[14:47:42] <stippi> absabs: if deleting files is slow in XFS, that will be bad for SVN, since SVN creates thousands of "lock" files in each folder of the tree
[14:50:56] <absabs> I have my debian box for over 2 years, don't want to convert XFS to ext3 or sth. else
[14:51:42] <absabs> a lot of OS kernel sources:D
[14:52:12] <absabs> I need a lot time to back up them if I want to convert
[14:53:24] <absabs> If I have a new pc, I will try ext4:)
[14:53:37] <DeadYak> ext4's done?
[14:53:42] <DeadYak> I thought it was still work in progress
[14:53:51] <absabs> Exprement
[14:53:52] <absabs> yep
[14:54:20] <absabs> experiment
[14:54:51] * DeadYak wonders how hard it would be to port ZFS to Haiku
[14:55:25] <absabs> dunno
[14:56:32] <absabs> is it compatible with haiku's license?
[14:56:39] <JBurton> not much
[14:56:40] <JBurton> well
[14:56:51] <DeadYak> it's CDDL
[14:56:53] <JBurton> yeah
[14:56:55] <DeadYak> so shouldn't really present an issue
[14:56:58] <DeadYak> since it's self contained
[14:57:03] <DeadYak> (CDDL is per-file)
[15:03:32] <absabs> dtrace is also interesting
[15:04:28] <DeadYak> indeed
[15:04:40] <JBurton> yep
[15:06:17] <absabs> Dtrace toolkit is a project of FreeBSD's gsoc this year
[15:06:24] <DeadYak> cool
[15:06:45] <absabs> FreeBSD's kernel has supported Dtrace
[15:07:16] <DeadYak> yes, but the port wasn't integrated due to license issues
[15:07:28] <DeadYak> iirc FBSD project disallows non-BSD licensed files in the kernel core
[15:07:37] <absabs> :)
[15:08:33] <DeadYak> afaik they're redoing it with the files that need to be in the kernel redone as clean room implementations
[15:08:37] <DeadYak> but that'll take time
[15:09:23] <stpere> licence stuff is tricky sometimes :)
[15:09:37] <DeadYak> yes, yes it is
[15:09:43] <absabs> I think so
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[15:31:42] <absabs> bbl
[15:31:47] <absabs> go to dorm
[15:32:02] <DeadYak> see ya
[15:32:15] <absabs> cu later
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[15:59:59] * DeadYak plops mmu_man
[16:00:24] <mmu_man> plop
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[16:08:27] <Begasus> 'lo peeps
[16:14:32] <mmu_man> stippi I fixed the opensound node to use 1thread per channel btw
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[16:14:55] <mmu_man> still need to fix timing though, it buffers a lot so latency is wrong
[16:15:03] <stippi> mmu_man: nice, does that
[16:15:05] <absabs> I'm back
[16:15:06] <stippi> oh, ok
[16:15:13] <mmu_man> it seems little better on cpu use and cracks
[16:15:14] <stippi> hi absabs
[16:15:20] <absabs> hi stippi
[16:15:24] <absabs> hi mmu_man
[16:15:41] <mmu_man> but playing and recording seems to work
[16:15:53] <stippi> mmu_man: you mean without much cracks?
[16:16:02] <mmu_man> lol yeah
[16:16:09] <stippi> Have you updated the package?
[16:16:15] <mmu_man> not yet
[16:16:16] <stippi> would be cool to check it out
[16:16:23] <Teknomancer> how exactly would you fix timing? adjusting the number of bytes buffered?
[16:16:30] <stippi> I am still in the process of fixing my Ubuntu install though
[16:16:43] <stippi> Teknomancer: Also the timestamps
[16:17:04] <stippi> there is different time bases involved, systemtime, performance time and sound card time
[16:17:09] <DaaT> Begasus! :)
[16:17:20] <Begasus> DaaT, ! ;)
[16:17:25] <Begasus> Teknomancer, ! ;)
[16:17:28] <absabs> are you talking about meida node?
[16:17:31] <absabs> :)
[16:17:35] <stippi> yes
[16:17:38] <stippi> OpenSound node
[16:17:44] <stpere> stippi: can I help you with that ubuntu? is it long to explain the issue? :)
[16:17:45] <Teknomancer> hi Begasus
[16:17:52] <DaaT> heya Teknomancer
[16:18:01] <Teknomancer> greetings DaaT
[16:18:12] <stippi> stpere: maybe
[16:18:17] <mmu_man> stippi you can try http://revolf.free.fr/beos/patches/opensound.tmp.002.diff.txt on svn
[16:18:43] <stippi> ok, mmu_man, will try
[16:18:58] <stpere> so, you upgraded to Hardy (not a fresh install)
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[16:19:30] <DaaT> stpere, what to do when, in Hardy, both taskbars went missing? :P
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[16:19:40] <DaaT> ctrl+alt+tab does nothing
[16:19:49] <helf> hi
[16:20:00] <stpere> hmm
[16:20:01] <Begasus> hi helf
[16:20:04] <stpere> Alt+F2
[16:20:05] <stpere> gnome panel
[16:20:10] <stpere> gnome-panel*
[16:20:15] <Teknomancer> DaaT: open console workspace
[16:20:32] <mmu_man> DaaT CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE and log in again
[16:20:33] <Teknomancer> yeah alt/ctrl+f2
[16:20:55] <Teknomancer> yes that would work
[16:21:10] <mmu_man> it seems to be a race in the login process
[16:21:16] <DaaT> mmu_man, doesn't work
[16:21:32] <mmu_man> used to work on old versions
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[16:22:50] <Teknomancer> DaaT: ctrl-alt-backspace doesn't work?
[16:23:03] <DaaT> not last time i tried, iirc
[16:23:11] <DaaT> could have been another key combo
[16:23:13] <DaaT> though
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[16:23:35] <HeTo> DaaT: make sure you don't have Option "DontZap" in xorg.conf
[16:23:45] <DaaT> gimme a few mns and i'll reboot and try again
[16:23:58] <Teknomancer> that's an X server thing, really ought to work unless you've explicitly disabled it somehow
[16:23:59] <DaaT> HeTo: "dontzap"? :)
[16:24:18] <DaaT> Teknomancer, it was an online update to hardy, maybe something didn't get finished
[16:24:21] <Teknomancer> or unless hardy is using some highly updated X server which has changed it
[16:24:28] <Teknomancer> DaaT: OH
[16:24:37] <mmu_man> stippi at least it doesn't hash the sound anymore on cpu or disk load
[16:24:42] <helf> good grief
[16:24:47] <Teknomancer> DaaT: i had my screen gone completely blank and frozen as well after an online upgrade
[16:24:51] <Teknomancer> i just reset my machine
[16:24:52] <helf> I've heard of tons of upgrade issues when people went to hardy
[16:24:54] <DaaT> though according to the updater, all went fine
[16:24:55] <Teknomancer> and all seemed fine
[16:25:11] <DaaT> had no problems _during_ update, just after
[16:25:21] <Teknomancer> it seems the 'reboot' of the installer didn't quite work, dunno it for me seeemed it was in Hibernate mode
[16:25:26] <Teknomancer> without being able to wake u p
[16:25:34] <Teknomancer> hard-resetting got it working for me though
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[16:27:08] <HeTo> DaaT: DontZap is the option for disabling ctrl+alt+backspace
[16:28:02] <DaaT> ah ok
[16:28:13] <mmu_man> well you can also use a virtual console and killall Xorg
[16:29:27] <helf> morning, mmu_man
[16:30:40] <Teknomancer> more likely the whole system has hung not just Xorg
[16:31:54] <helf> hmmm
[16:32:04] <helf> multiple gigs @ 300BYTES/s ...
[16:32:07] <helf> this'll take awhile ^_^
[16:32:15] <mmu_man> eh
[16:32:43] <helf> I'm archiving an FTP... :) apparently it is run on a home connection..
[16:34:21] <DaaT> bbiab
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[16:36:27] <Technix> Roey: still here?
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[16:56:52] <DeadYak> the joy of recompiling kernels
[16:57:06] <mmu_man> eh
[16:57:25] <Teknomancer> which one? BSD ? :P
[16:57:26] <DeadYak> upgrade X11 -> restart, hard lock, go to recompile video drivers, driver wants something that's not compiled into the kernel
[16:57:34] <DeadYak> and they wonder why I refuse to use Linux as a primary desktop
[16:57:40] <Teknomancer> ugh i hate that
[16:57:45] <Teknomancer> nvidia ?
[16:58:03] <DeadYak> this particular box actually has both an ati and an nvidia card in it
[16:58:14] <DeadYak> on-board ATI IGP and a gf4 AGP
[16:58:16] <DeadYak> err
[16:58:17] <DeadYak> IXP
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[16:59:44] <JBurton> re
[16:59:44] <DeadYak> wb
[17:01:33] <helf> .heh
[17:01:34] <helf> http://helf.freeshell.org/screwed-schedule.jpg
[17:01:49] <helf> our scheduling lady shouldnt do the schedule when she is on cold medicine :P
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[17:06:22] <stpere> helf: long lunch break on tuesday ;-)
[17:06:37] <AlienSoldier> helf is computer/teen related to pedophile stuff? :P
[17:06:46] <helf> :P
[17:06:51] <helf> nooo.... ;)
[17:06:59] <stpere> maaaayyyyybbeeee..
[17:07:12] <helf> i have a gab in my schedule today and tomorrow i start another department 30 minutes before leaving the first one.. lol
[17:07:22] <helf> *gap
[17:07:46] <stpere> can'T you multitask?! :)
[17:07:57] <AlienSoldier> nothing like doing a hourly salary that intersect with another
[17:08:07] <helf> heh
[17:08:28] <Teknomancer> he can it's probably just that he runs on some 66 MHz CPU so it's not worth it anyway :P
[17:08:46] <stpere> got a call from an employer.. they wanted me to evaluate a former intern :)
[17:08:52] <helf> this week is just weird. yesterday i managed to install openstep on a 6gb hdd correctly.. its supposed to only work with single partitions up to 4gb... :P
[17:09:21] <Teknomancer> install yes but did it run? ;)
[17:10:23] <AlienSoldier> i forgot who told me he was having wrigley stock here, he sure made money today
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[17:12:55] <helf> Teknomancer: working perfectly :P
[17:13:13] <helf> Teknomancer: and stuff multitasks fine on a 33mhz cpu ;P
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[17:13:23] <DaaT> ok, back in Hardy
[17:13:29] <DaaT> for some reason, gnome-panel wasn't installed
[17:13:36] <stpere> weird!
[17:13:36] <DaaT> had to apt-get install it
[17:13:39] <DaaT> aye
[17:13:43] <helf> They have the most horrible naming scheme
[17:13:45] <Teknomancer> helf: :) cool
[17:14:12] <Teknomancer> DaaT: that was strange; does the rest of stuff seem okay?
[17:14:21] <DaaT> and it seems hardy in a CD doesn't like my cd drive... never goes past the language selection screen. In my gf's laptop it works fine
[17:14:50] <Teknomancer> that's obvious then. your drive isn't cool enough for Hardy
[17:14:54] <DaaT> Teknomancer: yes. When I first logged in after installing gnome-panel it complained about 3 applets (weather, volume and another one) but i have them back in the taskbar
[17:14:58] <DaaT> Teknomancer: guess not
[17:14:59] <DaaT> :)
[17:15:02] <helf> heh
[17:15:08] <DaaT> but I still don't have compiz working
[17:15:15] <DaaT> and it worked just fine with 7.10
[17:15:16] <DaaT> weird
[17:15:17] <JBurton> DaaT installed envy-ng ?
[17:15:43] <Teknomancer> i liked playing with compiz, but personally after a few minutes the effects give me headaches
[17:15:48] <DaaT> what's that JBurton?
[17:15:54] <DaaT> Teknomancer:  you wuss
[17:15:55] <DaaT> :P
[17:16:05] <JBurton> it's a tool which takes care of downloading the correct nvidia/ati drivers
[17:16:13] <JBurton> so you don't have to do that manually
[17:16:21] <JBurton> install it and you won't have issues anymore
[17:16:25] <JBurton> with nvidia drivers
[17:16:36] <JBurton> or ati
[17:16:38] <DaaT> JBurton: i installed the ATI drivers from the restricted drivers app
[17:16:43] <Teknomancer> you still will need to recompile each time you upgrade your kernel
[17:16:44] <Teknomancer> ;)
[17:16:49] <JBurton> DaaT use envy anyway
[17:16:52] <DaaT> oki
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[17:16:56] <JBurton> Teknomancer envy will take care of that
[17:17:04] <DaaT> funny thing is, with 7.10, i didn't have to install them to get compiz to work :P
[17:17:13] <Teknomancer> JBurton: is this envy-ng a GUI?
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[17:17:16] <JBurton> yeah
[17:17:25] <JBurton> sudo apt-get install envy-ng
[17:17:37] <Teknomancer> i see, will try it later when i boot ubuntu, but that'll be a while, i'm going to play with BSD
[17:17:50] <DaaT> installing (through synaptic)
[17:17:56] <DaaT> b DeadYak
[17:17:58] <DaaT> wb
[17:18:01] <JBurton> http://linux.softpedia.com/get/System/Software-Distribution/EnvyNG-36961.shtml
[17:18:05] <DaaT> done
[17:18:11] <DeadYak> thanks
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[17:18:45] * DaaT launches envyng
[17:19:27] * DaaT manages to freeze it
[17:19:28] <DaaT> :P
[17:19:44] <JBurton> cool
[17:19:49] <JBurton> maybe it's just not multithreaded :)
[17:20:05] <helf> kmorning, DeadYak
[17:20:14] <DeadYak> hiya
[17:20:19] <DaaT> nope, not frozen. My bad
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[17:23:25] <DaaT> rebooting
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[17:48:51] <CIA-52> axeld * r25225 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/kits/net/tcp_shell/tcp_shell.cpp:
[17:48:51] <CIA-52> * Made it work and build again after recent network stack changes.
[17:48:51] <CIA-52> * Implement "close" command that actively closes the server socket, or does
[17:48:51] <CIA-52>  an simultaneous close. Even though this triggers an "endless conversation"
[17:48:51] <CIA-52>  between two time-wait endpoints on Haiku, it works fine in the shell.
[17:49:20] <CIA-52> axeld * r25226 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/add-ons/kernel/kernelland_emu.cpp: * Added a dummy replacement for parse_expression().
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[18:23:38] <helf> wtf?! http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/28/austria.internationalcrime2
[18:24:13] <stpere> yesh
[18:24:17] <stpere> very weird
[18:25:19] <helf> 24 year!!
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[18:28:04] <AlienSoldier> i bet the guy will do less than 24 year in prison
[18:28:21] <helf> because of how old he is?
[18:28:30] <helf> also, molesters dont last long in jail, anyways
[18:28:34] <AlienSoldier> because justice is a concept many don't get
[18:28:39] <helf> if inmates found out exactly what he did, they will kill him
[18:28:45] <DeadYak> helf: prison doesn't work the same everywhere as it does in the US
[18:28:52] <helf> oh, yeah
[18:28:53] <helf> this is australia..
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[18:28:57] <DeadYak> austria*
[18:29:09] <helf> ok, in an american prison, the decency to kill him :P
[18:29:17] <helf> ...
[18:29:18] <MichaelHenry> maybe
[18:29:24] <MichaelHenry> I worked in a prison
[18:29:25] <helf> why do they have to be so closely named? :)
[18:29:32] <helf> guard?
[18:29:36] <MichaelHenry> no
[18:29:43] <MichaelHenry> IT on the staff
[18:30:00] <MichaelHenry> my office was next to the Class 4 inmates
[18:30:00] <helf> ok, according to tv, inmates would kill him. so the almighty tv could be wrong ;)
[18:30:20] <MichaelHenry> most of the time they just rape
[18:30:40] <AlienSoldier> he might like that in fact
[18:31:01] <MichaelHenry> Even thou the US has the PREA act, rape occurs a lot
[18:31:28] <MichaelHenry> When I was there, it was reported or rumored at least once a week
[18:31:41] <AlienSoldier> better keep a chastety belt and hide the key well
[18:31:42] <helf> jeez
[18:31:47] <MichaelHenry> yep
[18:32:07] <MichaelHenry> better yet hide all the fruit juice
[18:32:25] <MichaelHenry> none to make alcohol with
[18:32:36] <helf> http://flickr.com/photos/paintitblack/2439080330/
[18:32:37] <helf> heh
[18:32:53] <AlienSoldier> there is still rice and potato for that
[18:32:57] <MichaelHenry> and don't accept gifts of roman noodles and cheetos
[18:33:18] <MichaelHenry> they want payment later
[18:33:28] <MichaelHenry> forgot the rice and taters
[18:34:48] <MichaelHenry> AlienSoldier: sounds like you know how to make hooch :D
[18:35:51] <AlienSoldier> MichaelHenry Quebec was the US biggest provider of alchool in the prohibition days, it's a cultural thing :)  Now we are number one pot sellers
[18:36:58] <AlienSoldier> one more thing to as to US trade deficit
[18:37:05] <AlienSoldier> *ad
[18:37:11] <helf> heh
[18:37:12] <AlienSoldier> *add
[18:37:12] <stpere> AlienSoldier: Quebec.. sniff sniff a compatriot! :)
[18:37:31] <helf> crap, have  ahole appearing in my jeans
[18:37:36] <helf> darnit, i dont wanna go buy clothing...
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[18:37:52] <stpere> doh! forgot my pants today :P
[18:37:58] <MichaelHenry> lmao
[18:37:59] <JonathanThompson> You need to stop wearing them so the jeans aren't cursed by ass-ociation, helf :P
[18:38:14] <helf> ha
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[18:38:32] <AlienSoldier> stpere that is the good part in leaving in cold land, you don't go far in the street without pant by mistake
[18:38:48] <JonathanThompson> Depends on how sensitive to the cold you are :)
[18:39:11] <stpere> haha
[18:39:23] * JonathanThompson has stood on an ice rink wearing sandals without socks for > 1 hour, only talking
[18:39:44] <helf> sandals are surprisingly warm
[18:39:53] <helf> i used to wear them all through winter
[18:39:59] * JonathanThompson notes helf must be using that pot from AlienSoldier
[18:40:29] <AlienSoldier> i don't produce pot for the record, even is the pot chopper like to wake me up in the morning all summer long :(
[18:40:30] <JonathanThompson> The one thing they're sure to do (to some degree) is insulate your feet from direct contact with the cold ground.
[18:40:38] <MichaelHenry> helf and alien: puff puff pass pass
[18:40:47] <MichaelHenry> dude my turn
[18:40:51] <MichaelHenry> ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[18:40:54] <helf> :P
[18:41:14] <MichaelHenry> lol
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[18:41:18] <JonathanThompson> Though there are some sandals that are closer to being closed-toe shoes than others.
[18:41:43] <AlienSoldier> some sandal are shoe with hole
[18:41:52] * JonathanThompson wonders when the next major move between Yahoo!/Microsoft will occur
[18:42:12] <stpere> I suppose it will be an hostile takeover
[18:42:17] <JonathanThompson> Most likely.
[18:42:36] <cps1966>  same ole bully tactics
[18:42:38] <JonathanThompson> I don't think Microsoft *really* wants that, though.
[18:43:01] <helf> MS will give up
[18:43:05] <mmu_man> stippi tried OSS yet ?
[18:43:10] <AlienSoldier> i think it's going to be corruption and board will miraculously say yes
[18:43:17] <helf> and take to covertly assassinating yahoo board members
[18:43:20] <JonathanThompson> If that happens, they may find themselves largely buying IP and buildings with nobody that will have expertise in making it work and extending it.
[18:43:38] * JonathanThompson notes helf should go into writing soap operas
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[18:44:31] <AlienSoldier> Tom Clancy: M$ ninja board takeover
[18:45:19] <Monni> erf...
[18:47:01] <mmu_man> <SGA><DanielJackson>Ah just the people I need to see</DanielJackson>(goes away)</SGA>
[18:47:27] <mmu_man> <SGA>(comes back)<DanielJackson>Come with me!</DanielJackson></SGA>
[18:47:31] <mmu_man> :)
[18:47:49] <mmu_man> Kokito can I submit an event ?
[18:48:03] <mmu_man> hmm seems not
[18:48:56] <Kokito> mmu_man, yes, you should be able to
[18:49:27] <mmu_man> on submit I have blog entry, doc for dev, doc for users, orum topic, news post, RFC
[18:49:51] <mmu_man> it's for http://linux-live-usb.org/ip/index.php I'll be there tomorrow
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[18:49:58] <mmu_man> with a booth and a little conf
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[18:50:06] <helf> JonathanThompson: http://flickr.com/photos/paintitblack/2439080330/
[18:50:17] <Kokito> http://www.haiku-os.org/conference/submit
[18:50:23] <mmu_man> if I dont forget to get my train ticket
[18:50:28] <mmu_man> ah ok thx
[18:50:36] <Kokito> :)
[18:50:45] <mmu_man> I suppose it's not considered as a node by plone
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[18:51:25] <helf> omg its cube
[18:51:32] <helf> quick, hide the military conversations
[18:51:42] <Monni> lol
[18:52:11] <mmu_man> hmm what's the format for the dates ?
[18:52:14] <mmu_man> comma listed ?
[18:52:17] <pyCube_> you guys being all "bomb stuff.. blow shit up" while i was away?
[18:52:35] <Kokito> mmu_man, any format is fine
[18:52:46] <mmu_man> ah it's not parsed
[18:53:01] <Kokito> mmu_man, nope.
[18:53:10] <Kokito> brb
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[18:53:13] <helf> pycube : course not!!
[18:55:24] <stippi> mmu_man: not yet
[18:55:33] <stippi> still reinstalling my build env
[18:55:39] <stippi> need to go now, sorry
[18:57:01] <MichaelHenry> Has MySQL been ported to beos
[18:57:21] <DeadYak> nope, in the past that was not possible due to lack of mmap
[18:57:37] <MichaelHenry> mmap?
[18:57:39] <pyCube_> postgresql is better anyway
[18:57:46] <DeadYak> in haiku that will eventually be solved, but it's currently incomplete (mprotect(0 and friends still necessary)
[18:57:54] <MichaelHenry> ahh
[18:57:56] <DaaT> DeadYak: http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/28/wii-fit-is-selling-like-gangbusters-in-europe/
[18:57:56] <DeadYak> MichaelHenry: POSIX API call that maps a file into mem
[18:58:06] <MichaelHenry> ok
[18:58:33] <MichaelHenry> can a program that requires Mysql be usable with postgresql
[18:58:44] <DeadYak> depends on how it requires it
[18:59:19] <Kokito> Technix ping
[19:00:21] <MichaelHenry> found a program written in php for church management
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[19:00:40] <AlienSoldier> i wonder how this project is going http://www.datawing.co.uk/Products/BeOS/index.htm
[19:00:40] <MichaelHenry> trying to port it
[19:01:11] <MichaelHenry> I sent datawing an email never responsed
[19:02:03] <MichaelHenry> the requirements on the program beos had except mysql
[19:02:14] <MichaelHenry> hince the question
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[19:02:58] <DeadYak> wb geist
[19:04:11] <absabs> OMG, it's already 1:00 here
[19:04:26] <absabs> time to go to bed
[19:04:36] <absabs> night all
[19:04:46] <DeadYak> night
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[19:06:40] <mmu_man> DaaT nice excuse for not going outside to do sports
[19:06:47] <mmu_man> quite lame IMO
[19:07:05] <DeadYak> mmu_man: difficult to do sports when it's pouring rain outside, or you have no one to play them with
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[19:07:41] <mmu_man> covered pool, gymnasium, ...
[19:07:47] <DaaT> mmu_man :P
[19:07:57] <DaaT> mmu_man: cheaper than going to the gym
[19:07:59] <mmu_man> and kway+bicycle :D
[19:08:00] <DaaT> for a light workout
[19:08:09] <mmu_man> like Dany Boon in the Ch'tis :D
[19:08:37] <MichaelHenry> how do I open an xml file in beos
[19:08:48] <AlienSoldier> mmu_man is that movie out on dvd yet?
[19:08:51] <MichaelHenry> or can it be done
[19:08:52] <DeadYak> I hate going to gyms
[19:08:58] <mmu_man> no it's just out in theaters
[19:09:11] <mmu_man> ... or kung fu :D
[19:09:34] <DeadYak> mmu_man: I'm debating signing back up for hapkido, not sure yet
[19:09:35] <mmu_man> (actually we sometimes train outside, raining or not :D)
[19:09:40] <DeadYak> the place is kinda far :/
[19:09:53] <AlienSoldier> mmu_man i call that ShawBross training
[19:09:58] <pyCube_> i cant figure out window joggers
[19:10:43] <pyCube_> why on earth would you go to a gym so that you can run in place in a window?
[19:10:55] <pyCube_> do they think that other people ar impressed?
[19:11:07] <mmu_man> DeadYak kway for bicycle: http://multimedia.fnac.com/multimedia/images_produits/ZoomPE/9/1/2/5050582287219.jpg :)
[19:11:15] <cps1966> statis symble
[19:11:20] <DeadYak> mmu_man: you've obviously never lived in the US :P
[19:11:21] <AlienSoldier> pyCube they like to do like hamsters
[19:11:36] <DeadYak> mmu_man: biking out here would pretty much be suicide
[19:11:39] <AlienSoldier> it's hamster cosplay
[19:11:42] <mmu_man> eh
[19:12:03] <DeadYak> mmu_man: otherwise I'd be doing that to get to work already
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[19:14:41] <tqh> is the hda driver enabled right now?
[19:15:05] <DeadYak> might not be
[19:15:31] <DeadYak> BEOS_ADD_ONS_DRIVERS_AUDIO = auich auvia emuxki ; #hda
[19:15:32] <DeadYak> looks like not.
[19:16:27] <stpere> hda is the driver that makes music out of your harddisk drive by spinning it more or less fast? :)
[19:16:36] <DeadYak> stpere: nope, Intel HDA
[19:16:36] <mmu_man> yes but only first one
[19:16:45] <stpere> ah
[19:16:50] <mmu_man> else it'd be hdb
[19:16:51] <DeadYak> mmu_man: LOL
[19:17:05] <stpere> mmu_man: you got it right :)
[19:17:20] <Monni> and only ide hard disk, because otherwise it would be sda ;)
[19:17:31] <stpere> yup :)
[19:17:44] * stpere must write such a driver ;-)
[19:18:17] <Monni> might wreck the drive pretty fast...
[19:18:24] <DeadYak> "might"? :)
[19:18:24] <stpere> I bet
[19:19:05] <tqh> before you start working on hdb, can you finish hda? :P
[19:19:14] <Monni> when there was a driver to play music with floppy drive, it explicitly said there shouldn't be disk in drive... Removing hard disk platters isn't quite an option for boot drive...
[19:20:02] <tqh> I think it's been done btw.
[19:20:08] * DaaT waits for mmu_man to write a driver for hdz
[19:20:19] <stpere> removing it isn't hard, putting it back and reading the data is the tricky part :)
[19:20:45] <stpere> well..
[19:21:13] <AlienSoldier> replace them with lead plate and get a nice gyro
[19:21:16] <stpere> removing it reassambling the drive to produce music might be tricky as well
[19:21:41] <cps1966> buy a guitar
[19:21:53] <Monni> cps1966: too easy ;)
[19:22:12] <cps1966> well get hard to find one then
[19:22:35] <Monni> not esoteric enough ;)
[19:23:07] <cps1966> how could you tune a floppy drive
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[19:23:37] <cps1966> thats just a big waste of time
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[19:23:51] <Monni> weird weird world ;)
[19:24:35] <cps1966> yeah like poke your eye out and skull fuck you
[19:24:48] <helf> D:
[19:24:54] <Monni> whatever floats your boat...
[19:25:54] <cps1966> dont have a boat
[19:25:57] <pyCube_> water?
[19:26:14] <Monni> me neither... anymore...
[19:26:59] <cps1966> gene has a turtle that floats his sissy got him
[19:27:01] <mmu_man> do we have stats about the source tree ? (nr of lines in kernel and elsewhere...) ?
[19:27:49] <tqh> there is at least three lines in the kernel, maybe more
[19:27:55] <DeadYak> mmu_man: src/system is around 375 kloc
[19:28:09] <mmu_man> yeah but that includes glibc
[19:28:16] <DeadYak> true
[19:28:19] <mmu_man> what are you using ?
[19:28:40] <DeadYak> libroot = 239k
[19:28:48] <DeadYak> mmu_man: find and wc -l on my git repository
[19:28:53] <DeadYak> since that doesn't have .subdirs everywhere
[19:28:57] <mmu_man> ah, right, that could do :)
[19:29:07] <tqh> does oss work under gcc4 btw?
[19:29:08] <mmu_man> find can be told to skip .svn/
[19:29:15] <DeadYak> true but with this I don't have to
[19:29:25] <mmu_man> tqh yes, the addon is built with the tree
[19:29:26] <DeadYak> mmu_man: also that doesn't include add-ons/kernel
[19:29:31] <mmu_man> so the gcc2 one won't load
[19:29:40] <mmu_man> the rest is C only (drivers)
[19:29:43] <tqh> mmu_man, does it have a hda driver?
[19:29:46] <DeadYak> which looks to be around 730K
[19:29:48] <mmu_man> tqh yes
[19:30:06] <tqh> so all I need to do is enable something in buildconfig
[19:30:15] <mmu_man> hmm
[19:30:28] <DeadYak> tqh: you'd probably need to uncomment hda in HaikuImage
[19:30:42] <mmu_man> yes just install the OpenSound optional paclage
[19:30:47] <tqh> DeadYak, no that's the ordinary driver
[19:31:23] <tqh> AddOptionalHaikuImagePackages oss?
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[19:32:09] <DeadYak> tqh: oh, you want opensound
[19:32:15] <DeadYak> tqh: OpenSound is the package name
[19:32:23] <tqh> DeadYak, ah thx
[19:32:49] <mmu_man> or just wget and unzip it
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[19:34:03] <mmu_man> hmm OHCI is still not working here :-(
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[19:34:47] <DeadYak> mmu_man: OHCI USB?
[19:34:58] <mmu_man> yes
[19:35:02] <mmu_man> hangs at boot
[19:35:08] <mmu_man> when enabling the controller
[19:35:11] <DeadYak> yeah, just says controller not started here
[19:35:19] <mmu_man> here it just stops
[19:35:25] <DeadYak> emitrax was planning on working on that eventually when work got a bit less stressful afaik
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[19:51:04] <helf> yay, just bought a slot1 to socket 370 adapter :)
[19:52:09] <helf> already have an FC-PGA 1 to 2 adapter
[19:52:17] <helf> so i can fianlly use my tualatin in my opensyep machine
[19:52:20] <helf> openstep
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[20:05:06] <MichaelHenry> lol
[20:05:09] <MichaelHenry> helf?
[20:05:38] <MichaelHenry> Do you need any more adapters?
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[20:15:14] <DaaT> hi MauriceK
[20:15:21] <MauriceK> hey ho
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[20:15:28] * DeadYak pets MauriceK
[20:16:55] <DaaT> is it me, or did you just call me a "ho" MauriceK?
[20:17:06] <Kokito> mmu_man, got the submission, and will post it online in a bit
[20:17:40] <DaaT> submission? and you didn't send it to me mmu_man?  *slaps
[20:17:42] <DaaT> :P
[20:17:46] * DaaT pets Kokito
[20:17:52] <Kokito> hey DaaT
[20:18:15] <MauriceK> DaaT: :) I won't comment on this on e:)
[20:18:22] <MauriceK> wow
[20:18:31] * MauriceK has 400+ haiku mails to read... wtf???
[20:18:32] <DaaT> MauriceK :P
[20:18:58] <MauriceK> and i wanted to go to bed early tonight :P
[20:20:10] <DaaT> so read them tomorrow ;)
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[20:20:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi
[20:20:30] <DeadYak> wb stippi
[20:20:39] <MauriceK> hey stippi just got your mail
[20:20:40] <MauriceK> haha
[20:20:51] <stippi> hi MauriceK, yeah
[20:21:29] <DaaT> wb stippi, got ubuntu working?
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[20:23:58] * mmu_man ties DaaT down to a chair and starts tickling him
[20:24:04] <mmu_man> who talked about submission ? :p
[20:24:13] <DeadYak> haha
[20:24:43] <mmu_man> sheep!
[20:25:22] <mmu_man> what was that thing with honey and sheeps already ? ah yeah honey on bare feet and let the sheep tickle them with the tongue
[20:26:34] <mmu_man> supposedly quite efficient
[20:27:10] <DeadYak> that would make an interesting new ICO logo
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[20:28:30] <mmu_man> "tickling you since 2003"
[20:30:48] <DeadYak> so that would be a sheep licking Axel's foot while he's on a laptop trapped in BGA's basement?
[20:31:55] <mmu_man> lol
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[20:34:18] <CIA-52> korli * r25227 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/ (heap.cpp signal.cpp team.cpp): build fix (with no tracing conf)
[20:34:57] <mmu_man> hmm it seemed to work here ?
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[20:36:51] <mmu_man> likely gcc4 only
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[20:49:00] <helf> dead today
[20:49:14] <DeadYak> I'm hungry as hell
[20:49:54] <Yaroze> e
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[20:52:24] <helf> me too
[20:52:31] <helf> but i cant leave for another 30 minutes
[20:52:34] <helf> hey MYOB
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[20:54:04] <MYOB> hello
[20:54:12] <MYOB> anyone seen mmu_man?
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[20:55:23] <DeadYak> MYOB: he left around 5 minutes ago
[20:55:31] <MYOB> ahh feck
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[21:01:02] <CIA-52> korli * r25228 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/ (heap.cpp signal.cpp team.cpp): reverted r25227. Thanks for the hint Ingo :)
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[21:01:52] <MYOB> wanted to see if he had an R5 bin of his new OSS stuff
[21:02:05] <DeadYak> MYOB: he described how to build one :)
[21:02:23] <MYOB> DeadYak my BeOS box is a 1Ghz laptop without the tree on it...
[21:02:46] <MYOB> he's just mailed it to me
[21:02:49] <DeadYak> ah
[21:02:52] <DeadYak> good luck
[21:03:30] <MYOB> I'm still trying to get recover my 'obtained' copy of the Rage Mobility driver sourcecode so I can see if I can get accel on that machine
[21:04:03] <MYOB> Rudolf found the code somewhere, somehow
[21:04:07] <helf> ugh
[21:04:10] <helf> i hate this sparc
[21:04:14] <helf> anyone want a sparcstation 20?
[21:04:25] <geist> nope, got one of my own that i dont think i want
[21:04:57] <geist> i'd be more okay with it if it wasn't so noisy
[21:05:07] <helf> whats a good OS for one?
[21:05:14] <geist> netbsd
[21:05:18] <helf> i had solaris 8.. its waaay too slooow.. and none of the linux distros want to work right
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[21:05:50] <geist> 8 works on it? guess it was 9 that they dropped support for that line of cpu
[21:06:15] <geist> what cpus do you have in it?
[21:06:56] <MYOB> ouch, audios WAY worse
[21:07:42] <helf> dual 75mhz supersprac-2
[21:08:04] <helf> *supersparc-2
[21:09:19] <geist> well, that's about the same as me
[21:09:34] <geist> I think mine is a dual 80mhz supersparc, 192MB ram
[21:09:53] <geist> it aint that fast, but that's what you get for running 15 year old stuff
[21:10:05] <rennj> yeah but it can run solaris 9
[21:10:18] <rennj> that be like pentium 100 and win2k
[21:10:21] <rennj> hehe
[21:10:28] <geist> right
[21:10:31] <geist> pretty much
[21:10:36] <rennj> sun4m was nice
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[21:10:53] <MYOB> sounds way worse with the new addon, and its not like its the CPU being whammed
[21:11:07] <rennj> quad core ross cpu's 800mhz 512MB ram with vram for video
[21:11:16] <rennj> maxium sparc20 go to
[21:11:38] <rennj> get a sparc e1000 i bet dirt cheap
[21:11:47] <helf> um
[21:11:50] <rennj> sun4d desktop size
[21:12:00] <helf> im pretty sure the fastest you can go in a ss20 is a quad ross @ 250mhz
[21:12:01] <rennj> sparc e2000 you couldnt do at home really
[21:12:18] <helf> quad 200 != 800mhz ;)
[21:12:25] <rennj> 4 200mhz cpu's
[21:12:29] <helf> geist : mine has 256mb of ram
[21:12:29] <rennj> no dah
[21:12:31] <rennj> 2 sbus slots
[21:12:33] <rennj> err
[21:12:34] <rennj> mbus
[21:12:41] <rennj> 2 cpu's per mbus
[21:12:45] <helf> i know that
[21:12:56] <rennj> yeah i actually ran networks of that stuff
[21:13:12] <rennj> sun e2000 e1000 20,10,5
[21:13:19] <helf> anyways
[21:13:30] <rennj> and i replaced all the old sun motorala stuff sun 3 crap
[21:13:35] <helf> the ss20 with dual, faster, cpus runs much slower than most of my other machines of that vintage :P
[21:13:37] <rennj> talk about dogs
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[21:14:45] <rennj> they handle a load better then other machines though
[21:14:55] <rennj> sparc 20 vs like a pentium 1666mmx
[21:14:59] <rennj> grr
[21:15:06] <rennj> sparc 20 vs like a pentium 166mmx
[21:15:13] <helf> thats a single cpu versus two :P
[21:15:17] <rennj> or maybe pentium pro shit
[21:15:30] <helf> my dual 200 mhz ppro-s systems creams this one ;)
[21:15:35] <rennj> running winnt 3.51
[21:15:36] <rennj> hehe
[21:15:53] <rennj> we had dec alpha running winnt 3.51 that was really sad
[21:17:02] <geist> i think the hypersparcs weren't as fast per clock
[21:17:11] <rennj> datageneral was charging like 100k though for quad pentium pro boxes
[21:17:16] <rennj> back then
[21:17:30] <geist> oh man, quad ppros were the hotness for a while there
[21:17:39] <geist> I used to lust over a compaq proliant 7000
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[21:17:52] <rennj> i use to lust for dual pentium pro and like solaris 2.5
[21:17:55] <rennj> hehe
[21:18:00] <helf> heh
[21:18:06] <geist> i actually got one of those. had a dual ppro for a lot of college
[21:18:09] <helf> geist : the ross chips arent as good as the supersparcs
[21:18:11] <helf> but they run faster
[21:18:12] <geist> was expensive, but worth it
[21:18:13] <rennj> this is when linux was still libc4 and aout
[21:18:22] <rennj> and fbsd was in trouble with att
[21:18:29] <helf> its like a cyrus x86 chip running faster than an intel but you dont gain much :P
[21:18:29] <rennj> err bsd
[21:19:07] <MYOB> whats the vesa driver in R5 called?
[21:20:13] <rennj> i also lusted for sgi indy, o2 back then
[21:20:20] <DeadYak> MYOB:  stub perchance?
[21:20:22] <rennj> cause they came out in like 93,94
[21:20:41] <rennj> we had indy colorbus and xerox machine
[21:20:45] <rennj> at work
[21:20:50] <rennj> nice printserver
[21:20:50] <CIA-52> korli * r25229 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/audio/null/null_hardware.c: fix sleepTime to be microseconds
[21:21:14] <rennj> the printer queue on sgi box, showed printed jobs graphically
[21:21:14] <MYOB> thats the accel but I can't see a driver called that
[21:21:40] <DeadYak> that one might be hardwired into the R5 app_server
[21:21:41] <DeadYak> not sure.
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[21:23:08] <helf> bbl
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[21:23:24] <geist> hmm, indy colorbus
[21:23:31] <geist> never heard of that version before
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[21:24:49] <rennj> yeah it was just sgi indy with a xerox card in it
[21:24:55] <rennj> sgi indy colorbus
[21:25:06] <rennj> interfaced to fancy xerox color printer
[21:25:23] <rennj> but it had some nice apps on it
[21:26:18] <rennj> this was very expensive though back then
[21:26:30] <rennj> we had some printers that the ink rolls cost like 600 bucks
[21:26:41] <rennj> they where sheets of RGB
[21:26:51] <rennj> 3 sheets to do one color picture
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[21:26:53] <stargater> re
[21:27:07] <rennj> red gree blue sheets
[21:27:10] <rennj> heh
[21:27:18] <rennj> one big roll of that shit
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[21:27:32] <rennj> thermal or some shit
[21:27:39] <rennj> tektronix
[21:27:59] <rennj> i had like 50 plus printers to keep track of
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[21:28:30] <rennj> all kinds of different vendors was the issue
[21:28:48] <rennj> xerox,tektronix,hp laserjets,epson
[21:28:57] <Technix> ohhh, quit yer bitchin
[21:29:04] * Technix smacks rennj around a lil
[21:29:09] <rennj> im not bitching
[21:29:16] <rennj> i love those old memories
[21:29:21] <Technix> hehe
[21:29:27] <rennj> 80,90's where good years
[21:29:33] <Technix> what are you, 90 now?
[21:29:35] <rennj> my golden years of computing
[21:29:41] <rennj> nah 37
[21:29:53] <MYOB> Technix so... strange seeing you here...
[21:29:53] <Technix> how's it going these days?
[21:29:58] * JonathanThompson notes rennj is slightly older than he is
[21:30:04] <Technix> MYOB: strange just seeing you?
[21:30:07] <geist> i see, colorbus was a specific rasterizer graphics card
[21:30:08] <JonathanThompson> Not meaningfully so, though!
[21:30:11] <Technix> I mean, you're strange looking?
[21:30:46] <MYOB> oi!
[21:31:07] * Technix smacks rennj with MYOB
[21:31:13] <rennj> yeah that xerox was color copier
[21:31:48] <Technix> Xerox has always been an innovator, that's for sure
[21:32:02] <geist> oh i see, yeah. it puts the impage processor in the indy
[21:32:03] <geist> cute
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[21:32:10] <rennj> printserver
[21:32:16] <rennj> yeah the queue was cool to watch
[21:32:30] <rennj> on desktop you could look at printer queue graphically
[21:32:35] <geist> cute
[21:32:35] <rennj> jobs inline
[21:32:38] <Monni> I wonder what kind of zoo it would become if all BeOS users would post their profile pictures on same page...
[21:32:46] <geist> i should fire up my indy. haven't booted it in years
[21:33:00] <rennj> heh i gave mine away with and indigo2
[21:33:09] <rennj> sold 2 os2's to reputable
[21:33:10] <geist> not sure where the monitor is, but I think my newer monitors should support sync-on-green
[21:33:10] <Technix> Monni: nothing wrong with that, I think
[21:33:26] <geist> it was pretty fast, it's one of the later R5000SC models
[21:33:36] <Monni> Technix: frappr page used to have some... dunno if there is any other with more pictures...
[21:33:38] <rennj> 180mhz probably i think
[21:34:38] <rennj> or maybe thats the o2 im thinking of
[21:34:50] <geist> whut
[21:34:54] <rennj> indy r5k 150mhz
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[21:34:56] <rennj> max
[21:35:01] <geist> 180 apparently
[21:35:02] <geist> mine is a 150
[21:35:11] <rennj> o2+ i had was like 300 or 400
[21:35:12] <geist> but i think it is the L2 cache version
[21:35:19] <rennj> i had o2 and o2+
[21:36:12] <rennj> problem with using sgi now is
[21:36:20] <rennj> vncviewer needs gl extentions
[21:36:31] <rennj> or remote Xserver needs shit
[21:36:48] <rennj> have the apps you will have problem launching remote
[21:37:20] <rennj> wonder if they have nxserver for irix
[21:37:34] <rennj> hehe
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[21:39:38] <rennj> standard vnc or tightvnc wont cut it
[21:43:31] <rennj> beince if you could use qemu-mips and run irix
[21:43:36] <rennj> benice
[21:43:51] * JonathanThompson lobs a purring kitten at rennj
[21:44:26] <Monni> erf...
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[21:52:06] <Roey> Technix:  ya
[21:52:08] <Roey> just came home
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[21:53:33] <rennj> one laptop per child devs are pissed about this m$ crap
[21:53:54] <rennj> good luck ripping sugar UI /dbus and porting to windows
[21:54:14] <ari-free> the whole situation is a big mess
[21:54:30] <ari-free> I saw a olpc commercial on tv
[21:54:37] <rennj> i feel bad for them, cause the duopoly is what i see for xo-2
[21:54:45] <rennj> intel/m$ for xo-2
[21:54:50] <rennj> amd/linux for xo-1
[21:55:21] <MYOB> well, doesn't make sense to source your chips from a financially failing vendor :P
[21:55:53] <rennj> cost of building laptop goes up i bet
[21:55:59] <rennj> 188 now
[21:56:05] <rennj> thats damn cheap
[21:56:34] <ari-free> I want someone to come up with the commodore 64 of today
[21:56:50] <rennj> its great tech, i mean you can actually charge this laptop in the field
[21:56:56] <ari-free> or amiga 500
[21:57:11] <rennj> and the display is still nicer then any other umpc
[21:57:17] <rennj> 1200x900@200dpi
[21:57:25] <rennj> mono/color
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[21:57:49] <rennj> that have one ari-free
[21:57:52] <rennj> sam440
[21:57:57] <rennj> you can buy it now i think
[21:58:12] <Roey> what's ari?
[21:58:27] <rennj>   http://www.sam440.com/eng/index.html
[21:58:33] <Roey> thans
[21:58:36] <rennj> sam440ep ari-free
[21:58:55] <ari-free> looks like a chip
[21:58:56] <rennj> i think thats what the amigans have been looking for
[21:59:09] <Roey> and AROS ?
[21:59:18] <Technix> Roey: you were wondering what software there was for BeOS back in the day, iirc
[21:59:22] <ari-free> I'm talking about form factor
[21:59:23] <Roey> Technix:  aye
[21:59:30] <rennj> http://amigans.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10
[21:59:34] <Roey> Technix:  I'm wondering what you guys are developing /for/
[21:59:41] <Technix> choice
[21:59:41] <rennj> amiga 4.0 ppc
[21:59:46] <Roey> like, in order to support sftware from back in the day?
[21:59:56] <rennj> so if you want amiga 68k your shit out of luck
[21:59:59] <Technix> well, that's part of the reason, we need a good foundation
[22:00:08] <ari-free> the computer would be in a keyboard and you plug into a tv
[22:00:09] <Roey> alright
[22:00:24] <Roey> Technix:  what I meant to ask was, I guess, is who is your audience
[22:00:39] <Technix> See, lots of us in the community feel Windows is not going to be around forever.
[22:00:50] <Roey> ok
[22:00:58] <stpere> it's already crumbling under Vista :)
[22:01:01] <Technix> our audience is really a diverse group
[22:01:11] <Technix> there's an embedded market that can make use of Haiku, for one thing
[22:01:28] <rennj> yeah thats what amigaanywhere wants to
[22:01:31] <stpere> ideally, every OS should have like under 20% of the market and be compatible to each other
[22:01:34] <rennj> embedded market
[22:01:35] <Roey> scientists, academics, engineers in the field, journalists?  I mean, do you see specific communities of people using it for specific purposes
[22:01:38] <stpere> IMO
[22:01:43] <Technix> Roey: indeed
[22:02:04] <Roey> Technix:  for example, Apple has the college student and professional artists market
[22:02:37] <Technix> it just works, so therefore, when the OS has a couple of well known generalistic apps like web browser, music/media, office, it provides a good platform and choice for an end user
[22:02:47] <rennj> ari-free: i have nice e-uae amigaos3.9 setup
[22:03:01] <Roey> Technix:  ok
[22:03:07] <rennj> newscoaster,wookiechat,Aweb,finalwriter
[22:03:22] <rennj> its fun to play in, i got bunch of games for
[22:03:49] <Roey> Technix:  does Gassé know about haiku at all?
[22:03:50] <Roey> I wonder
[22:03:56] <MYOB> yes, he does
[22:04:07] <Roey> has he said anything about it?
[22:04:33] <Technix> yes, he does, and approves of it all
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[22:04:51] <Roey> oh col
[22:04:54] <Roey> *oh cool.
[22:05:10] <Roey> he's the ultimate validator in this case eh? ;)
[22:05:20] <Kokito> Roey, http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=236331448076587879
[22:05:21] <MichaelHenry> Is there a Git for Beos
[22:05:22] <Roey> he's the Linus Torvalds of Be?
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[22:05:39] <rennj-amiga> hehe
[22:05:40] <Technix> MichaelHenry: yes
[22:05:50] <MichaelHenry> yesss
[22:06:03] <Technix> MichaelHenry: http://haikunews.org/1286
[22:06:25] <Roey> ack, google/youtube doesn't work on this kubuntu box.
[22:06:45] <Roey> (and that's why gnu/linux won't take over the desktop any time soon)
[22:06:52] <Technix> Roey: probably because of the Flash version
[22:06:55] <Roey> yup
[22:06:56] <Kokito> Roey, JLG gave a brief speech at our Haiku tech talk at Google last year
[22:07:06] <Roey> but I mean, the point is it doesn't run out-of-the-box
[22:07:12] <Roey> Kokito:  interesting!!
[22:07:15] <Technix> and yes, that is a concern with any open source OS: proprietary systems.
[22:07:20] <Roey> I wonder if he's involved in this community
[22:07:27] <Kokito> Roey, we have also met him a few times :)
[22:07:31] <Roey> heh :)
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[22:07:35] <Technix> Roey: he makes contact with various people
[22:07:38] <Roey> Kokito:  it was his idea, Iunderstand it
[22:07:43] <Roey> all of Be Inc.
[22:07:51] <rennj-beos> see 1.7Ghz celeron m still plenty fast to run 4 os's
[22:07:54] <Roey> and the idea was to create a competitor to MS Windows on the desktop
[22:07:56] <Technix> you want to know how Be got their name?
[22:07:59] <Roey> (correct me if I'm wrong)
[22:08:00] <Roey> how?
[22:08:01] *** DaaT has quit IRC
[22:08:12] <Roey> BeBox?
[22:08:15] <Roey> I've wondered that
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[22:08:21] <Technix> JLG formed a small group to come up with a name, any name, and gave them (iirc a week) to do so
[22:08:32] <Roey> ok
[22:08:41] <Technix> they didn't have one when he got back, so he, out of frustration I think, named it Be
[22:08:43] <MichaelHenry> Technix: Is this for Haiku only?
[22:08:46] <Roey> :)
[22:08:48] <Technix> MichaelHenry: yes
[22:09:12] <Roey> Technix:  the intellectual property issues with BeOS and its API have been resolved by now I assume
[22:09:13] <Roey> also,
[22:09:27] <Technix> what issues, do you mean?
[22:09:28] <Roey> there's a point at which Haiku will surpass BeOS in functionality
[22:09:41] <Roey> Technix:  I'm sure there were patents JLG licensed from other vendors
[22:09:42] <MichaelHenry> Any way to port it to Beos
[22:09:51] <Roey> Technix:  otherwise he could've just open-sourced BeOS, I figure
[22:10:27] <Technix> yea, I'll have to check on that, I don't know whats the deal now with those patent/licenses
[22:10:32] <Roey> ok
[22:10:47] <Technix> MichaelHenry: it should just work using those instructions
[22:11:15] <Roey> Technix:  so anyway, I keep having hope that this project will bear fruit....because I was an early appreciator of BeOS (despite never having had the chance to actually use it :(
[22:11:28] <Roey> and also, I'd try Haiku now but I can't seem to run it under KVM
[22:11:38] <Roey> apparently haiku+kvm/qemu is a known issue
[22:11:48] <Technix> yeah, someone said KVM was a modified QEMU?
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[22:12:15] <Technix> no chance you can use VMWare, is there, Roey ?
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[22:13:13] <rennj> vmware,virtualpc,virtualbox right?
[22:13:16] <Roey> I'd rather just use kvm?  I don't have VMWare installable here
[22:13:39] <Roey> (it'll get into under my OS' skin with its VMWare kernel module and all that)
[22:14:08] <rennj> vmplayer2  i cut down to 42MB
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[22:14:16] <rennj> ram os total is only 300MB
[22:14:35] <rennj> 300MB ramos is way to go for running vm's
[22:14:41] <rennj> poor mans ESX server
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[22:15:12] <rennj> i can boot solaris 10 and windows right now and make it 6 os's running on the 1.7GHz celeron
[22:15:51] <Roey> I'm running KVM as it is--I don't think VMWare and KVM play nice with each other
[22:15:54] <rennj> course latency sucks, but i can watch veohTV
[22:16:22] <rennj> vmware does directX to but it dorked on me
[22:16:42] <rennj> cause i refuse to upgrade to newer vmplayer2 probably
[22:17:09] <Roey> Technix:  will you guys be porting any of the Linux kernel drivers over to Haiku?
[22:17:14] <Technix> in case anyone is interested: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.emulators.kvm.devel/2782/match=haiku
[22:17:20] <Technix> talks about Haiku crashing KVM
[22:17:49] <Technix> Roey: there is always a possibility anyone could try porting those. What specifically is neded/useful that Haiku does not have?
[22:18:41] <Roey> accelerated video drivers for certain graphics cards?
[22:18:48] <Roey> thaks for the kvm link
[22:19:17] <Technix> yeah, most likely we'd look to those linux sources as inspiration, and possibly fork them
[22:19:25] <Technix> we == haiku devs (not me)
[22:19:42] <Technix> I have to clarify, I'm not an active dev by any means, whatsoever.
[22:19:59] <MYOB> most of the graphics drivers in Linux have bog-all to do with the kernel...
[22:20:03] <MYOB> considering they use X11
[22:20:37] <MYOB> DRI is in there, obviously
[22:20:46] <rennj> and v4l
[22:20:57] <rennj> least i think
[22:21:01] <MYOB> thats capture not output, though
[22:21:02] <Technix> I think though at this point, Haiku development is more about filling in the foundation gaps, rather than porting anything new ove
[22:21:03] <cps1966> v4l2
[22:21:16] <rennj> yeah see i have wintv pvrusb2 tv car
[22:21:25] <Technix> Certainly anyone is welcome to use any source (license prohibiting) they deem valuable
[22:21:26] <rennj> so when i built my kernel i remember that crap
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[22:22:09] <rennj> ati fglrx just got stable in nov 2007
[22:22:26] <rennj> i.e. switching to virtual console doesnt kill it anymore
[22:22:37] <rennj> think some cards have the tv-out shit now
[22:22:50] <MYOB> thats usually handled very poorly by Linux in general
[22:22:55] <MYOB> and its most, not some, these days
[22:23:00] <rennj> oh yeah radeonhd and ati xorg suck
[22:23:10] <rennj> better to use kernel/fglrx
[22:23:15] <helf> back :D
[22:23:15] <MYOB> as well as becoming obsolete as most new TVs have VGA *and* a connector that converts to DVI
[22:23:30] <MYOB> even my low-end Philips 15" TFT does
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[22:24:31] <rennj> my friend with fbsd laptop is even worse off trying to get fglrx/linux compatibility mode and xorg all working
[22:24:50] <rennj> what a pain
[22:25:12] <rennj> told him to just go the xorg vesa,ati,radeon driver route
[22:25:13] <helf> wb deadyak
[22:25:17] <stpere> going, bbl
[22:25:21] <stpere> going home*
[22:25:47] <DeadYak> thanks
[22:26:06] <rennj> i did fbsd/dri/linux compat for matrox g400 years ago
[22:26:21] <rennj> what a goat screw to get accelerated video
[22:26:25] <Roey> heh
[22:26:30] <Roey> rennj, you're a dev?
[22:26:44] <rennj> nope
[22:27:00] <Roey> oh ok
[22:27:01] <rennj> well if someone would pay me, i would be one
[22:27:03] <rennj> hehe
[22:27:04] <Roey> :)
[22:27:14] <rennj> serious
[22:27:37] * Roey has no money
[22:28:00] <helf> welcome to the club
[22:28:07] <rennj> i did programming in x86 asm,z80 asm,ada,pascal,c,forth years ago
[22:28:08] <helf> we now number 4576001
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[22:28:19] <rennj> i do some forth shit on my olpc xo-1 laptop
[22:28:33] <rennj> but that just boot code stuff to get it to run my own distro
[22:28:41] <rennj> simple stuff
[22:29:36] <rennj> more like just telling openfirmware where my kernel and initramfs our and where to boot from
[22:29:51] <rennj> nvram settings on sun
[22:30:03] <rennj> but since olpc doesnt really have nvram, i have to put that in a file
[22:30:09] <rennj> in forth code
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[22:31:26] <rennj> cobol
[22:31:28] <rennj> fortran
[22:31:42] <rennj> yeah i did all that shit in college, and never touched it since basically
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[22:32:01] <rennj> side tracked into being system admin
[22:32:28] <Technix> anyone confirm if Haiku is officially supported by KVM as a guest OS?
[22:32:31] <rennj> no time to be fixing or creating code when you got 1000's of users and machines to dick with
[22:32:51] <Technix> rennj: I admin 5000+ servers, and still find time for programming. :P
[22:32:52] <DeadYak> Technix: as far as I'm aware it's not really something any real effort is put towards
[22:33:06] <DeadYak> Technix: so officially I would say no.
[22:33:16] <Technix> yeah, gotcha
[22:33:19] <Technix> figured
[22:33:19] <DeadYak> Technix: though last I checked that's more of a problem in KVM
[22:33:26] <Technix> yeah, that's what I think too
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[22:33:43] <Technix> I'm opening up a dialogue with some kvm people in #kvm
[22:33:43] <rennj> i dont find time cause i like to waste my time on other things
[22:33:57] <rennj> reading books is usally a big one
[22:33:59] <DeadYak> with respect to specifics I don't know though
[22:34:04] <rennj> biking is another time killer
[22:34:13] <Technix> it would be nice if we can get Haiku to be an officially supported OS
[22:34:36] <DeadYak> I'd rather see that time put towards real hardware personally
[22:35:11] <DeadYak> just because 5 bazillion virtualizers exist nowadays doesn't mean we should go out of our way to support all of their pet quirks
[22:35:25] <Technix> oh, indeed.
[22:35:30] <Technix> I'm with you 100% on that
[22:36:13] <rennj> you got nice san Technix?
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[22:36:25] <Technix> no, just 2 external USB
[22:36:28] <Technix> 500gb each
[22:36:33] <xcasex> tiny.
[22:36:37] <Technix> yes
[22:36:39] <rennj> im talking your 5000 servers
[22:36:43] * xcasex is up at 4TB
[22:36:48] <rennj> storage area network
[22:36:49] <Technix> oh.. sorry, I thought you meant my pesronal computer
[22:36:50] <Technix> ahaha
[22:36:54] <rennj> tapes,drives
[22:36:57] <xcasex> yeh me too
[22:36:59] <rennj> robot tape libraries
[22:37:02] <rennj> arrays
[22:37:03] <Technix> yeah, we have some serious backup storage
[22:37:06] <rennj> you know ?
[22:37:16] <rennj> veritas netbackup?
[22:37:24] <mmadia> tqh ?
[22:37:25] <Technix> linux based thank you very much
[22:37:28] <rennj> heh
[22:37:40] <Technix> 98% of our facility is linux
[22:37:51] <rennj> ah see i had solaris,hp-ux,winblows
[22:37:54] <Technix> 1.5% is BSD
[22:38:02] <Technix> the remaining is win
[22:38:15] <rennj> im not working now, why i speak past tense
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[22:38:38] <luroh> it would be nice if Haiku supported at least one Free virtualizing solution though
[22:38:47] <luroh> vmware is always a bit of a pain
[22:38:55] <DeadYak> luroh: qemu works also
[22:39:05] <luroh> but without hw acc...
[22:39:06] <DeadYak> virtualbox has issues with its emulation that they refuse to fix
[22:39:41] <rennj> qemu might be your best bet to choose
[22:39:46] <luroh> hmm, i'm not sure who's got the right to point a finger there
[22:39:49] <rennj> since it runs on more platforms
[22:39:57] <DeadYak> luroh: pretty sure someone had it running on kqemu
[22:40:06] <Technix> they're also on this network: #vbox
[22:40:11] <DeadYak> luroh: a ticket was filed
[22:40:12] <rennj> course now that sun bought virtualbox, opensolaris finally has something other then qemu
[22:40:13] <MYOB> if the OS runs on real hardware and not on a virtualiser, that means theres something wrong with the virtualiser quite simply...
[22:40:29] <DeadYak> luroh: it was closed with a comment that effectively said "your OS is too picky about the behavior it expects"
[22:40:32] <luroh> mmlr might have had something going at some point, but in beos, i think
[22:40:35] <DeadYak> and that it'd be too hard to fix properly.
[22:40:35] <rennj> fbsd still stuck with qemu
[22:40:40] <rennj> or vmware4
[22:40:43] <rennj> which sucks
[22:40:46] <MYOB> its not like Haiku only runs in vmware/qemu, theres many people using it on real HW
[22:40:57] <DeadYak> luroh: I dunno where he had it going, but I know he was running it in kqemu somewhere
[22:41:00] <MYOB> BeOS never ran right in VMWare for *years* either
[22:41:10] <DeadYak> sure, because of the lack of drivers for the emulated hardware
[22:41:17] <rennj> still doesnt,
[22:41:26] <rennj> TSC/PIC timing issues
[22:41:28] <DeadYak> that too
[22:41:29] <MYOB> DeadYak no, it didn't boot...
[22:41:35] <DeadYak> rennj: Dano mostly fixed that iirc.
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[22:41:40] <mmu_man> plop
[22:41:47] <DeadYak> rennj: R5's timing loop wasn't accurate enough for higher clock speeds iirc
[22:41:55] <mmu_man> MYOB oddly it works very well here...
[22:42:00] <rennj> host.cpukHz = "1692000"
[22:42:01] <rennj> host.TSC.forcedDelta = "TRUE"
[22:42:01] <rennj> #host.TSC.noForceSync = "FALSE"  <-------doesnt seem to help, mouse locked
[22:42:01] <rennj> #host.TSC.noForceSync = "TRUE"   <-------super speed = broken
[22:42:01] <rennj> #host.noTSC = TRUE
[22:42:01] <rennj> #ptsc.noTSC = TRUE
[22:42:05] <MYOB> mmu_man, what does?
[22:42:09] <rennj> that what my current beos.vmx has
[22:42:10] <tqh> mmadia, yes?
[22:42:13] <mmu_man> oss
[22:42:15] <rennj> for tweaking some of the timing issues
[22:42:18] <mmu_man> let's try the other box
[22:42:19] <MYOB> oh right. it doesn't here...
[22:42:34] <MYOB> it worked as OK as other systems before
[22:42:42] <Kokito> mmu_man, http://www.haiku-os.org/conference/2008/live_etic_party_universite_montpellier_2008
[22:42:43] <rennj> sound and clock still way off
[22:42:46] <mmu_man> Kokito thx :)
[22:42:55] <mmadia> do you have a preference as to where the Haikuware TYA goes?   eg,  haiku-os, stays in haikuware. ..   tqh
[22:42:56] <Kokito> my pleasure mmu_man :)
[22:43:04] <Kokito> and good luck! :)
[22:43:05] <rennj> but at least high load on host os isnt crashing beos vm anymore
[22:43:16] <rennj> beos vm use to crash when host os got busy
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[22:44:18] <rennj> #host.TSC.noForceSync = "TRUE" enable that in beos.vmx and the beos vm runs in super speed mode
[22:44:22] <tqh> mmadia, either to sponsor Haiku's extra students or to kokito's marketing fund.
[22:44:36] <rennj> to fast to even use
[22:44:44] <rennj> its freaky
[22:45:03] <DeadYak> rennj: that could be entertaining
[22:45:06] <rennj> vmware has tons of timeing tweaks
[22:45:17] <rennj> and im still testing to find proper ones
[22:45:28] <Kokito> tqh, there is no such a thing as a marketing fund
[22:45:36] <rennj> with out using cpufix or systemtimer patch that use to exsist
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[22:45:55] <tqh> no but I guess there are costs that needs to be paid :)
[22:46:44] <rennj> #monitor_control.virtual_rdtsc = false
[22:46:54] <rennj> see tons of vmware tweaks for tsc timing issues
[22:47:05] <rennj> sanbarrow doesnt explain it well either
[22:47:37] <mmadia> to haiku-os it is then : )
[22:47:50] <rennj> http://sanbarrow.com/vmx.html
[22:48:06] <DeadYak> nice
[22:48:13] <Kokito> tqh, it's been out of my pocket for the most part. :)
[22:48:33] <rennj> vmplayer2 forces me to build lots of stuff .vmx by hand, which i dont mind
[22:48:34] <tqh> and that is why I suggested that we donate it to you :)
[22:49:10] <rennj> haiku.vmx probaly could be tweaked thats for sure
[22:49:22] <rennj> config.version = "8"
[22:49:23] <rennj> virtualHW.version = "6"
[22:49:34] <rennj> just those 2 settings i think would change the hardware emu
[22:49:48] <Kokito> tqh, best is to donate to haiku.
[22:49:52] <rennj> you guys use older setting in haiku.vmx file i think for virtualHW.version = "6"
[22:50:12] <rennj> ehci usb support i think needs that number tweaked before you see it
[22:50:32] <Kokito> mmadia, cool :)
[22:56:27] <Kokito> tqh, thank you for thinking about me (wrt haikuware TYA) :)
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[22:57:28] <tqh> I was thinking on the marketing also :)
[22:58:42] <rennj> http://sanbarrow.com/vmx/vmx-virthw-modes.html see haiku.vmx uses old modes i think legacy hardware
[22:59:18] <rennj> then again that might not effect it much looks like
[22:59:24] <rennj> disk modes looks like really
[23:00:17] <rennj> i just know for fbsd 5.4 and vmplayer2 to get ehci usb i had to up the virtualHW mode
[23:08:46] * Kokito wonders if the sound.virtualdev = "sb16" would with Haiku in vmware
[23:10:20] <tqh> I wonder if that's SB16PCI or SB16 (ISA) :)
[23:10:44] <rennj> dmidecode tells me on fbsd all the vmware hardware info
[23:11:11] <DeadYak> there was a PCI SB16?
[23:11:53] <tqh> yes, but it was not a SB16 but really a SB Awe64 or something.
[23:12:06] <tqh> Creative had a very good naming scheme :)
[23:12:08] <DeadYak> ah right.
[23:12:25] <DeadYak> I forgot the digital audio portion of the AWE series was still an sb16
[23:13:12] <tqh> yes, but I'm not sure that was true for all awe or that card either. I think it was esXXXX based :)
[23:13:54] <dr_Evil> stippi you here?
[23:14:27] <tqh> probably why they are named 'creative'
[23:15:03] <dr_Evil> I just tried the latest version. when trying to shut down, the alert that shows up seems to have infinite hight, but normal width
[23:16:01] <rennj> you guys saw this right http://sanbarrow.com/vmx/vmx-sound.html
[23:16:24] <dr_Evil> i tried moving it, but it doesn't seem to have an end
[23:16:26] <rennj> i played for while with that to, i get sound in beos r5 and vmware but trying to get over the TSC timing issues
[23:16:38] <rennj> virtualpc will do sound to
[23:16:48] <rennj> and works better in beos r5 the vmware
[23:17:44] <rennj> see i figure if i ever get beos r5 working right under vmware i can pass on the info, it might be useful
[23:18:28] <rennj> then again it might be total waste of time
[23:18:32] <DeadYak> dr_Evil: I reported that bug a while ago, never found the cause though
[23:18:47] <DeadYak> dr_Evil: other people report sometimes seeing it with a terminal window, but with inf width
[23:19:01] <DeadYak> dr_Evil: smells of an initialization race somewhere, but couldn't find any obvious candidate
[23:20:06] <dr_Evil> I see
[23:20:14] <dr_Evil> so it was nothing recent, ok
[23:20:20] * DeadYak nods
[23:20:32] <DeadYak> bug #1997 if you're curious
[23:20:42] <Kokito> I have experienced the infinite height shutdown window syndrome a few times too
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[23:22:32] <DeadYak> unfortunately it happens to me about once every 20-25 boots
[23:22:38] <DeadYak> makes it a bitch to track down with debugging enabled
[23:23:36] <Technix> http://haikunews.org/1291
[23:23:45] <CIA-52> marcusoverhagen * r25230 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/ps2/ps2_mouse.c:
[23:23:45] <CIA-52> This fixes scroll wheel support, as reported in bug #1625.
[23:23:45] <CIA-52> PS/2 supports vertical scrolling only for now.
[23:24:08] <Technix> if anyone wants to take up that challenge, I have the ear of one of the KVM devs who is interested in helping us
[23:25:04] <dr_Evil> KVM= keyboard video mouse?
[23:25:33] *** tqh has quit IRC
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[23:25:57] <rennj> linux kvm kernel based virtual machine
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[23:26:08] <rennj> linux vserver
[23:26:09] <rennj> xen
[23:26:16] <rennj> tons to keep track of
[23:26:17] <EuanK> yawn
[23:26:29] <rennj> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_virtual_machines
[23:27:06] <Technix> dr_Evil: its linuxs kernel solution to vm
[23:27:10] <dr_Evil> KVM-switch = keyboard video mouse switch ;)
[23:29:49] <Technix> yes, that is true :P
[23:30:39] * Thom_Holwerda waves
[23:30:55] <Thom_Holwerda> Technix: wasnt the interview performed today?
[23:31:00] <Thom_Holwerda> or was that tomorrow?
[23:31:06] <Thom_Holwerda> oh wait, timezones
[23:31:07] <Technix> Thom_Holwerda: priv
[23:31:11] <Thom_Holwerda> your day isnt up yet :)
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[23:37:05] <rennj> floyd!
[23:37:14] <rennj> now i must play that toon
[23:44:02] <rennj> love the TED talks
[23:44:14] *** daste has joined #haiku
[23:44:24] <rennj> http://www.ted.com/talks
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[23:54:56] <rennj-beos> Kernel name: kernel_intel built on: May 26 2000 12:27:12 version 0xf4249
[23:55:00] <rennj-beos> birth day soon
[23:55:11] <rennj-beos> 5038!
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   April 28, 2008  
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