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[00:23:43] <plfiorini> wow, jam is not that bad once you get accustomed to it
[00:26:01] <DaaT> hi plfiorini
[00:26:38] <plfiorini> hi DaaT!!!
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[00:27:26] <DaaT> how are you doing?
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[00:30:45] <plfiorini> fine, and you?
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[00:30:58] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25138 /haiku/trunk/headers/posix/sys/un.h:
[00:30:58] <CIA-52> Our sockaddr_storage is only 128 bytes long. Hence invocations of bind()
[00:30:58] <CIA-52> or connect() that passed sizeof(sockaddr_un) would always fail.
[00:31:28] <plfiorini> lots of network stuff, nice
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[00:36:38] <helf> hi
[00:37:41] <DaaT> doing good plfiorini :)
[00:37:45] <DaaT> hi helf
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[00:38:37] <ddew|bofh> gah, my head hurts
[00:38:54] <ddew|bofh> trying to remember math studies from 10 years back is no fun
[00:40:37] <Barrett666> mmm
[00:44:28] <helf> bored...
[00:47:12] <ddew|bofh> <- headache
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[01:11:07] <umccullough_w> mmu_man, you see the OpenSound note on ticket #1222 ?
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[01:11:31] <umccullough_w> i'd like if you clarified as I clearly shouldn't be the one speaking for you
[01:11:37] <umccullough_w> :)
[01:11:58] <mmadia> hey all
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[01:12:22] <umccullough_w> hi mmadia
[01:12:43] <mmadia> how's it going umccullough_w?
[01:12:49] <umccullough_w> so so...
[01:12:57] <umccullough_w> work sucks as usual
[01:13:12] <mmadia> : )
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[01:21:17] <mmu_man> umccullough_w thx I answered
[01:21:48] <umccullough_w> thx :)
[01:22:07] <umccullough_w> that's all i came here for - ttyl!
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[01:48:39] <stpere> damn
[01:48:54] <stpere> stupid client got a domain renewal email and he flushed it
[01:49:01] <stpere> now his domain is expired
[01:49:15] <stpere> and he waited over one month before telling me so
[01:49:22] <stpere> now it will cost 225$ to renew it
[01:49:25] <stpere> grrr
[01:49:34] <stpere> he said "the email was in english"
[01:49:42] <stpere> way to go
[01:52:25] <mmu_man> eh
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[03:02:16] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25139 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp: vfs_create_special_node() always tried to create the node in "/".
[03:04:50] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25140 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/ (Inode.cpp Inode.h kernel_interface.cpp):
[03:04:50] <CIA-52> * Allow passing sub vnode ops and publish flags to Inode::Create().
[03:04:50] <CIA-52> * Implemented create_special_node() hook.
[03:04:50] <CIA-52> * Fixed Inode::IsContainer()/IsDirectory().
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[03:08:08] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25141 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/thread.cpp:
[03:08:08] <CIA-52> * Resolved {g,s}etrlimit() TODO's, i.e. moved the implementation into
[03:08:08] <CIA-52>  separate functions and made the set errno correctly.
[03:08:09] <CIA-52> * Added RLIMIT_CORE case. We don't support core dumps, but setting them
[03:08:09] <CIA-52>  to disabled shouldn't fail anyway.
[03:08:24] <umccullough_w> looks like ingo has enabled "fast-commit-mode" for the evening
[03:08:46] <umccullough_w> i'd swear he has some automated process that does it for him at the end of the day ;)
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[03:09:00] <stargater> re
[03:09:22] <stargater> so u(k)buntu is updating to hardy
[03:10:06] <umccullough_w> (x)u(k)buntu even :)
[03:10:11] * umccullough_w uses xubuntu
[03:10:39] <umccullough_w> actually, that should be (x)(k)ubuntu
[03:11:17] <umccullough_w> perhaps I'll install 8.04 on my laptop tonight
[03:12:02] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25142 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/unix/UnixEndpoint.cpp:
[03:12:02] <CIA-52> For sockets in listening mode the read_avail() apparently has to return
[03:12:02] <CIA-52> something.
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[03:22:56] <stargater> but i will install next fedora = 9
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[03:30:03] <DeadYak> umccullough_w: 48% [687 openoffice.org-core 5363072/27.3MB 19%]                                                           48.6kB/s 2h56m17s :/
[03:30:07] <DeadYak> taking forever.
[03:30:50] <absabs> DeadYak, are you apt-get install openoffice under debian?
[03:30:55] <absabs> :P
[03:31:18] <DeadYak> absabs: no, apt-get dist-upgrade from Gusty to Hardy
[03:31:24] <DeadYak> Gutsy*
[03:31:25] <absabs> :)
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[03:48:15] <umccullough_w> DeadYak, yeah, i'll probably do that on my gx270 - but i want to conver the laptop from ubuntu to xubuntu cleanly :P
[03:48:22] <umccullough_w> convert*
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[03:48:59] <umccullough_w> 3 hours ?
[03:49:10] <umccullough_w> DeadYak, is that 3 hours left as of 48%?
[03:49:20] <DeadYak> right
[03:49:22] <DeadYak> @ 54% now
[03:49:25] <umccullough_w> suck :)
[03:49:36] <DeadYak> yup
[03:49:41] <umccullough_w> i'll probably grab the xubuntu alternate cd iso via torrent
[03:49:58] <DeadYak> probably a plan, I just don't feel like setting all my stuff back up again
[03:50:00] <umccullough_w> and maybe i'll wait a couple days before dist-upgrade on the gx270 :P
[03:50:24] <umccullough_w> till the mirrors settle down
[03:52:28] * DeadYak nods
[03:53:24] <umccullough_w> and supposedly you can upgrade from a cd...
[03:53:46] <umccullough_w> maybe i'll try that out
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[04:04:19] <Barrett666> yauhm
[04:04:24] <Barrett666> n8 everybody
[04:04:25] <Barrett666> <<
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[04:07:10] <stpere> hi kokito
[04:08:46] <stargater> n8
[04:08:47] * DeadYak pets Kokito
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[04:09:34] <Kokito> hello folks
[04:09:35] <umccullough_w> my machine is getting worse - i can actually hear the capacitors whining now
[04:09:56] <Kokito> capacitors whining? that's pretty bad
[04:10:32] <umccullough_w> considering they're very visibly bulging, it's not a surprised
[04:10:33] <umccullough_w> surprise
[04:10:47] <umccullough_w> i'm just hoping this machine lasts through the end of the month
[04:11:06] <umccullough_w> well, actually - till mid-May would be better :/
[04:11:52] <slaad> Why don't you replace the caps?
[04:12:11] <umccullough_w> i would, except this is my work machine
[04:12:18] <slaad> Ah. So who cares? :)
[04:12:23] <slaad> Work can replace it.
[04:12:26] <umccullough_w> i mentioned it to my boss and he is ordering me a new one
[04:12:33] <umccullough_w> problem is, i'm at the end of a nasty project
[04:12:42] <umccullough_w> i can't afford to switch machines :(
[04:12:46] <umccullough_w> yet
[04:15:55] <umccullough_w> they're not so much whining as actually buzzing at high frequency...
[04:16:24] <umccullough_w> sucks to listen to audio in my headphones too :(
[04:18:42] <absabs> hi kokito
[04:19:26] <absabs> DeadYak, why not choose a fast mirror
[04:20:09] <DeadYak> absabs: because apt-get chooses the server for me afaik
[04:20:22] <DeadYak> absabs: also I'm not stopping this at 70% :)
[04:20:25] <umccullough_w> heh
[04:20:43] <absabs> vim /etc/apt/sources.list
[04:20:57] <umccullough_w> how do you know which mirrors are faster?
[04:21:13] <cps1966> au mirors are fastest
[04:22:16] <absabs> I usually ping to see the ttl
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[04:22:32] <absabs> :)
[04:22:41] <umccullough_w> so, you're just looking for mirrors that are closest in hops?
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[04:22:47] <umccullough_w> that doesn't define "fast"
[04:22:53] <absabs> yep
[04:23:11] <absabs> but usually it is fast
[04:23:11] <umccullough_w> that doesn't even define least latency
[04:23:20] <absabs> I know
[04:23:31] <umccullough_w> my first hop when i was on IDSL was 50ms
[04:23:38] <Kokito> hi absabs!
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[04:23:42] <absabs> :)
[04:23:43] <umccullough_w> because the PoP was in Seattle while I was in Sacramento
[04:24:55] <umccullough_w> would be nice if there was a "mirror-test" that would download a sample file from each mirror or something
[04:25:06] <umccullough_w> of course, they'd have to disable it during high-usage times probably
[04:26:10] <umccullough_w> even that wouldn't be accurate in many cases as stuff gets cached
[04:27:12] <absabs> another way, I usually find the fastest mirrors information on local popular Linux forum.
[04:27:24] <umccullough_w> that seems more reliable ;)
[04:27:41] <umccullough_w> but when all the mirrors are swamped like today - i'm not sure how you could tell anyway
[04:27:43] <absabs> yep
[04:28:12] <absabs> nop
[04:28:54] <absabs> the mirrors are maintened by LUG(linux users group)
[04:29:18] <absabs> They are always available
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[04:30:31] <umccullough_w> when I say "swamped" I mean busy
[04:30:43] <absabs> :)
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[04:31:12] * DeadYak plops mmu_man
[04:31:13] <DeadYak> can't sleep?
[04:31:40] <absabs> IMHO, HUG can do the same thing like LUG once haiku rc1 released
[04:31:50] <absabs> :p
[04:31:55] <umccullough_w> :)
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[04:32:01] <mmu_haiku> eh right
[04:32:02] <umccullough_w> you mean R1?
[04:32:04] <DeadYak> I'd be surprised if there was enough demand for that to be necessary :)
[04:32:14] <umccullough_w> DeadYak, yes ;)
[04:32:17] <absabs> yep
[04:32:19] <mmu_haiku> SoundPlay has some issues in haiku...
[04:32:25] <mmu_haiku> menu bar doesn't show up DeadYak
[04:32:33] <mmu_haiku> until you do Alt-Esc
[04:32:39] <DeadYak> I thought SP failed due to some undefined sym?
[04:32:47] <mmu_haiku> also it hangs at end of track
[04:32:50] <umccullough_w> newer version i thought
[04:32:52] <mmu_haiku> older version
[04:32:54] <DeadYak> oh.
[04:33:01] <DeadYak> maybe some issue in liblayout?
[04:33:02] <mmu_haiku> 4.7.2
[04:33:06] <DeadYak> re menu that is
[04:33:07] <mmu_haiku> dunno
[04:33:30] <mmu_haiku> hangs at end of song waiting for return code of the loader thread
[04:33:34] <mmu_haiku> which never quits
[04:33:39] <DeadYak> ah
[04:33:58] <mmu_haiku> if you kill it it continues ok though :)
[04:34:23] <mmu_haiku> even works as replicant (with libs installed
[04:34:33] <DeadYak> yay
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[04:35:04] <mmu_haiku> anything newer than Vision-0.9.7-H-30032008 btw ?
[04:35:08] <mmu_haiku> missing sym
[04:35:13] <DeadYak> mmu_haiku: redownload
[04:35:25] <mmu_haiku> 'Alignment__5BView' hmm this one changed
[04:35:29] <DeadYak> mmu_haiku: I had to rebuild it after that Aligntment change
[04:35:30] <mmu_haiku> I'll remove from generated/download
[04:35:34] <DeadYak> do that
[04:35:37] <mmu_haiku> anyway I should sleep
[04:35:39] <umccullough_w> would be nice if the optional package download didn't call it "Vision.zip"
[04:35:46] <DeadYak> there's a fixed zip, nothing else changed so I didn't change the version number
[04:35:47] <umccullough_w> but rather gave it the full name
[04:35:49] <mmu_haiku> aw OSS sounds ugly with auvia
[04:36:01] <mmu_haiku> (native auvia driver doesn't work here btw)
[04:36:08] <umccullough_w> mmu_haiku, same problem on my laptop :(
[04:36:11] <DeadYak> mmu_haiku: wget http://vision.sf.net/Vision-0.9.7-H-30032008.zip
[04:36:18] <umccullough_w> auvia driver causes crackles
[04:36:23] <umccullough_w> oss causes shrieks
[04:36:35] <mmu_haiku> maybe I'll have a look later
[04:36:36] <mmu_haiku> n8
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[04:36:42] <umccullough_w> wow...later :)
[04:36:55] <DeadYak> well, it is 4 in the morning for him :P
[04:36:59] <umccullough_w> lol
[04:37:07] <DeadYak> apparently Ingo went to bed at a pseudo-normal hour today
[04:37:18] <umccullough_w> well, we'll see ;)
[04:37:27] <DeadYak> true :P
[04:37:32] <umccullough_w> it's early yet :/
[04:37:42] <DeadYak> last commit was around 2AM his time
[04:37:46] <umccullough_w> heh
[04:38:11] <umccullough_w> i have to assume his sleep patterns are pretty much screwed currently
[04:38:20] <DeadYak> could be
[04:38:27] <umccullough_w> mine are normalizing a bit
[04:38:35] <umccullough_w> been going to bed mostly before midnight
[04:45:51] <absabs> night
[04:46:16] <umccullough_w> night
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[04:55:45] <Kokito> absabs, looks like FF does not KDL haiku anymore with the recent builds
[04:55:57] <absabs> wow
[04:56:03] <absabs> cool
[04:56:06] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25143 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/unix/UnixEndpoint.cpp:
[04:56:06] <CIA-52> * Added missing select notifications on shutdown().
[04:56:06] <CIA-52> * Notify read/write instead of write/error when disconnecting.
[04:56:18] <Kokito> but now I don't get sound :)
[04:56:46] <absabs> I'm interested in what happened to recent source
[04:57:30] <absabs> It seems that it is not the rtl8139 driver's problem
[04:57:38] <koki_haiku> absabs. I don't have a clue :)
[04:57:43] <absabs> :)
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[04:58:30] <absabs> as for sound, just a minute ago, mmu_man said there is problem with oss on auvia
[04:58:48] * Zenja greets everyone.
[04:58:59] <Zenja> Morning / afternoon / evening
[04:59:13] <koki_haiku> absabs, no oss here
[04:59:15] <Zenja> Question - does anyone know how to remove replicant from Haiku desktop.
[04:59:28] <Zenja> I embedded Activity Monitor, and now I cannot figure out how to remove it :(
[04:59:39] <Zenja> Unlike other replicants, it doesn't leave a handle which allows quiting
[04:59:45] <Zenja> THe replicant survives rebot
[04:59:49] <Zenja> reboot :)
[05:00:24] <koki_haiku> Zenja, there is a file that when deleted will remove all replicants from the desktop
[05:00:31] <koki_haiku> but can't remember what the filename is
[05:00:34] <absabs> not only oss
[05:00:57] <Zenja> koki_haiku: sweet.
[05:02:16] <Zenja> OK, i'll try destroying ~/config/settings/tracker/tracker_shelf.  That sounds promising.
[05:02:20] <Zenja> Fingers crossed
[05:02:32] <absabs> koki_haiku, is it ok if the rtl8139 patch applied?
[05:02:43] <absabs> if so, the patch can be svn check in
[05:03:13] <koki_haiku> absabs, don't know. I am now using a nightly build straight from the builds factory
[05:03:50] <absabs> oh, it is not applied
[05:04:03] <koki_haiku> absabs, I can't compile Haiku
[05:04:03] <Zenja> koki_haiku: Removing tracker_shelf worked.  BTW - I'm running latest 25138
[05:04:15] <absabs> yesterday nightly build?
[05:04:21] <Zenja> koki_haiku: but from within Haiku now you can :)
[05:04:24] <absabs> :)
[05:04:44] <koki_haiku> Zenja, try TubePositive; it works :)
[05:05:09] <Zenja> OK, i will give it a go.
[05:05:17] <koki_haiku> Zenja, I should say: I am uncapable of compiling myself
[05:06:28] <Zenja> I must admit, Haiku has gotten really fast during the last 2 weeks.
[05:06:29] <koki_haiku> hmmm... media player does not even start
[05:06:40] <Zenja> You can easily experience the speed difference.
[05:06:49] <Zenja> GLTeapot went from 170 to 230 on the same box
[05:06:55] <Zenja> Moving windows and mouse flies
[05:06:59] <Zenja> Feels great :)
[05:07:07] <absabs> awesome
[05:08:08] <DeadYak> Zenja: hm...Activity Monitor showed a handle here...
[05:08:29] <Zenja> DeadYak: where?  I'm looking at my screen right now :(
[05:08:40] <Zenja> Latest build from 10 minutes ago
[05:08:42] <DeadYak> should be in the same corner as you originally dragged from
[05:08:51] <koki_haiku> DeadYak, the app in the window or the replicant on the deskop?
[05:08:56] <DeadYak> I can't reboot to test right now unfortunately
[05:08:57] <Zenja> I cannot see it.  I can see other replicants (eg. clock)
[05:08:58] <DeadYak> koki_haiku: both
[05:09:08] <koki_haiku> hmmm... not here on the replicant
[05:09:10] <umccullough_w> wasn't there a problem where sometimes the handle disappears?
[05:09:16] <DeadYak> odd...it worked the other day
[05:09:23] <umccullough_w> or did that get fixed
[05:09:46] <DeadYak> koki_haiku: just curiosity, what happens if you uncheck and recheck  Show Replicants in the leaf menu?
[05:10:02] * umccullough_w notes that ingo isn't asleep afterall
[05:10:18] <koki_haiku> DeadYak,nothing :)
[05:10:31] <DeadYak> umccullough_w: I was noticing that too
[05:10:34] <DeadYak> koki_haiku: hmm :/
[05:11:07] <Zenja> Reading instructions for TubePositive.  Feels like I'm installing Gentoo
[05:11:16] <umccullough_w> DeadYak, http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/2092#comment:2
[05:11:18] <Zenja> Drag this here, do that, rename this ...
[05:11:19] <DeadYak> will look into it once I can, I'm kinda paralyzed until this box finishes upgrading
[05:11:21] <umccullough_w> er, minus the comment
[05:11:43] <koki_haiku> DeadYak, I filed a bug report: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/2092
[05:11:59] <DeadYak> koki_haiku: umccullough_w beat you to it on linking me :)
[05:12:08] * koki_haiku smells food and is hungry
[05:12:13] <koki_haiku> going to have dinner now
[05:12:14] * DeadYak just ate
[05:12:16] <DeadYak> enjoy
[05:12:19] <koki_haiku> bbl
[05:13:58] <umccullough_w> yeah, i'll have to test a recent Haiku build soon
[05:14:07] <umccullough_w> i don't think i've tried one of the "speedy" ones yet :)
[05:14:38] <Zenja> TubePositive actually works.
[05:14:41] <Zenja> Under Haiku
[05:15:00] <umccullough_w> yeah, i think that was mentioned in the bebits comments :)
[05:15:11] <umccullough_w> i'll have to try it
[05:15:15] <umccullough_w> requires VLC right?
[05:15:23] <Zenja> Even though OSS works, it is not integrated into the Media kit.
[05:15:28] <Zenja> So no audio for now
[05:15:41] <umccullough_w> huh?
[05:16:05] <umccullough_w> there's an OSS media node that lets it work with the media kit
[05:16:05] <DeadYak> what's TubePositive?
[05:16:13] <umccullough_w> DeadYak, http://bebits.com/app/4555
[05:16:27] <Zenja> Has there been an update.  Let me try again :)
[05:16:31] <DeadYak> cute.
[05:16:44] * Zenja bends under desk to plug in headphones to onboard chipset sound
[05:16:51] * Zenja has X-Fi as primary card.
[05:17:03] <Zenja> OSS currently only works with motherboard audio
[05:17:11] * Zenja will be back in 30 seconds\
[05:17:51] <umccullough_w> Zenja, if it doesn't work - I'm guessing you should ask mmu_man what's up
[05:18:08] <DeadYak> would probably be good to check if the opensound node's even there :)
[05:18:22] <umccullough_w> true
[05:18:39] <DeadYak> I don't remembere if it's actually included in a default build
[05:19:31] <Zenja> so many connectors at the back.  Sound currently comming from PCM2
[05:20:19] <umccullough_w> i hate the color-coding
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[05:21:06] <helf> hiii
[05:21:17] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25144 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/kernel_interface.cpp:
[05:21:17] <CIA-52> rename() is supposed to fail when the target exists and is not a
[05:21:17] <CIA-52> directory only if the source is a directory.
[05:21:25] <umccullough_w> he's still awake!
[05:21:55] <helf> who?
[05:22:16] <umccullough_w> ingo
[05:22:21] <helf> oh
[05:22:47] <umccullough_w> but, if it makes you feel better - you're awake too :)
[05:22:50] <Zenja> kdl
[05:22:52] <Zenja> rebbot
[05:23:09] <helf> brb
[05:23:19] *** helf is now known as treohelf
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[05:24:02] <Zenja> There are 6 connectors at the back of the MB.  THe Media kit has confusing preferences.  I can get osstest to work but only on PCM2, plugged into green socket.
[05:25:54] <umccullough_w> green is supposed to be the front 2 speakers
[05:25:58] <umccullough_w> IIRC
[05:26:01] <umccullough_w> the default in other words
[05:27:11] <treohelf> deadyak, you awake?
[05:28:29] <DeadYak> yeah
[05:28:41] <Zenja> kdl again.  Media kit doesn't like being reset :(
[05:28:53] <Technix> Zenja: green is the front output
[05:28:55] <DeadYak> that could be an issue with one of the addons
[05:29:04] <DeadYak> media kit restarts fine on here
[05:29:05] <Technix> what mobo model is it, specifically?
[05:29:06] <DeadYak> but I don't use OpenSound
[05:29:10] <treohelf> yak : does your friends NeXT have the internal scsi cable for the hdd or do i ned to send one?
[05:29:22] <DeadYak> treohelf: afaik it has it, it's just the hdd itself that's toast
[05:29:53] <treohelf> oh right. ok.
[05:30:18] <Zenja> Technix: nForce 590 (asus m2n32-sli deluxe).
[05:30:29] <Zenja> Sound chipset is AD1988-B.
[05:30:44] <Zenja> I also have X-FI extreme music
[05:30:51] <Zenja> OSS 4.1 supports the X-FI.
[05:31:00] <Zenja> Haiku currently only uses OSS4.0
[05:31:13] <Zenja> So AD1988-B is the only device I can experiment with
[05:31:16] <Zenja> For now
[05:32:16] <absabs> Zenja, AD1988-B is just a audio codec
[05:32:44] <absabs> the sound chipset is nForce 590's hda
[05:33:14] <Zenja> absabs: doesn't AD (Analog Devices) actually make a Digital Analog convertor
[05:33:36] <Zenja> absabs: but you are right, the media preferences do call it nForce ha
[05:33:37] <Zenja> hda
[05:33:40] <DeadYak> Zenja: structured a bit differently in the context of AC 97 / HDA type chipsets.
[05:34:09] <Zenja> cool
[05:34:30] <absabs> part of the the audio codec's function is A/D
[05:34:56] <Zenja> anyway, I can live without audio for a few more months :)
[05:35:13] <Zenja> I'm trying to make a test app to showcase how SetScale doesn't currently work in Haiku
[05:35:15] <absabs> other functions include sample rate, channel select etc.
[05:44:30] <treohelf> sweet
[05:44:38] <treohelf> it passed that test :)
[05:44:51] <treohelf> ok, yak, drive will be in the mail tomorrow :D
[05:45:06] <DeadYak> yay
[05:45:14] <treohelf> finally :P
[05:45:14] <umccullough_w> how big is the disk?
[05:45:29] * umccullough_w has a few scsi disks lying around
[05:46:01] <treohelf> iiits 2gb
[05:46:11] <treohelf> i need some, badly :)
[05:46:14] <umccullough_w> heh
[05:46:21] <umccullough_w> i have a 2gb in my LCIII
[05:46:37] <umccullough_w> i'll look when i get home, I think i have some that are reasonable sized
[05:47:03] <umccullough_w> again, remind me this weekend to dig up some stuff ;)
[05:47:10] <umccullough_w> i need to seriously unload some shit
[05:47:13] <treohelf> anything thats 50pin will rock
[05:47:24] <treohelf> ill take anything scsi you wnna toss
[05:47:26] <treohelf> :)
[05:47:34] <treohelf> ill remind you :)
[05:48:24] <umccullough_w> oh ... yeah, the disks I'm thinking of might be 64pin
[05:48:38] <umccullough_w> isn't there a way to convert them down?
[05:48:46] <umccullough_w> or maybe that's just going up
[05:48:48] <stpere> bolt cutter
[05:49:10] <umccullough_w> i know i've got some kind of 64-pin -> 50-pin convertor somewhere
[05:49:21] <treohelf> you can use adapters
[05:49:29] <treohelf> ill take any adapters too :P
[05:49:32] <umccullough_w> lol
[05:49:45] <umccullough_w> also looking for spare AHA2940UW's?
[05:49:51] <umccullough_w> got a couple :P
[05:50:07] <umccullough_w> U2W's even
[05:50:24] <umccullough_w> i gotta keep some of that stuff anyway ;)
[05:50:27] <ddew|bofh> heh, shame i don't live in the us. i have a ton of old scsi drives i'm gonna toss ny Day Now(R)
[05:51:02] <treohelf> no you dont! i want them :P
[05:51:09] <treohelf> umcc : sure
[05:52:07] <umccullough_w> i guess it would really be a good idea to inventory my shit
[05:52:22] <umccullough_w> at least that way I can either ebay it, give it away, or toss whatever is junk
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[05:52:28] <treohelf> probably
[05:52:31] <treohelf> i need to
[05:52:48] <treohelf> ive been tossing stuff left and right :)
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[05:53:00] <ddew|bofh> i suck at throwing shit out
[05:53:06] <umccullough_w> i've got a bunch of P133's I need to chuck
[05:53:08] <treohelf> me too :(
[05:53:13] <umccullough_w> same here :/
[05:53:23] <treohelf> umcc i wanna list of stuff :P
[05:53:23] <ddew|bofh> i do runs every 6 months or so to get rid of the worst.
[05:53:36] <umccullough_w> treohelf, ok i'll see what I can do
[05:53:36] <ddew|bofh> sadly that's usually 2 carloads of gear
[05:53:58] <umccullough_w> treohelf, if I at least got it all in one place and started taking pics...i'd have a clue what i've got :P
[05:54:49] <umccullough_w> i probably need to ditch some consoles too...i know i've got at least 3 NES's now
[05:54:51] <treohelf> :P
[05:54:58] <treohelf> ebay, foo
[05:54:59] <ddew|bofh> have you also had weird experiences in the vein of "looking for a frying pan and instead finding a 286 slaptop" ?
[05:55:00] <ddew|bofh> :)
[05:55:08] <treohelf> lol
[05:55:13] <umccullough_w> heh
[05:55:29] <treohelf> i tossed out a huge box of ISA and VLB cards a few months ago.
[05:55:33] <treohelf> good times :P
[05:55:36] <umccullough_w> i've gone looking for tools in the garage and found old motherboards and floppy drives instead :(
[05:55:52] <umccullough_w> yeah, i need to ditch some old ISA shit for sure
[05:55:58] <treohelf> its amazing how you ammass stuff
[05:56:09] <treohelf> without trying...
[05:56:10] <ddew|bofh> the few times i invite someone over i tend to just chuck stuff into random cupboards in the kitchen :)
[05:56:22] <umccullough_w> ddew|bofh, that's bad :(
[05:56:40] <umccullough_w> it all just ends up in my office
[05:56:42] <umccullough_w> on the floor
[05:56:43] <treohelf> heh
[05:56:46] <umccullough_w> in piles
[05:56:50] <ddew|bofh> i'm not bothered, living single has it's perks :)
[05:57:23] <treohelf> that iit does :)
[05:57:43] <umccullough_w> ok, well i gotta get home
[05:57:45] <umccullough_w> ttyl
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[05:57:52] <ddew|bofh> tata
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[05:59:54] <stpere> night
[06:00:37] <treohelf> ah, damn
[06:00:56] <treohelf> the program licenses didnt transfer. now i have to renter them all... bleh :P
[06:01:06] <ddew|bofh> whoopie!
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[06:12:03] <treohelf> ddew, can you do me a favor?
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[06:16:31] <treohelf> hey monni
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[06:17:21] * JonathanThompson screams "Greetings!" at treohelf at 120 Db
[06:18:01] <treohelf> hey jt :P
[06:18:32] <JonathanThompson> Are you temporarily deafened yet? :)
[06:18:47] <treohelf> no :P
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[06:18:59] *** bryguy[lap] has joined #haiku
[06:18:59] * JonathanThompson repeats at 200 Db
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[06:26:46] *** {V}afk is now known as {V}
[06:27:36] * {V} wonders if Db is in any way related to dB
[06:28:00] * JonathanThompson notes he's horribly sleep-deprived along with being a bit dyslexic
[06:28:07] <JonathanThompson> Or even 64 of them...
[06:29:03] * JonathanThompson ponders Apple's intentions with buying PA Semiconductor
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[06:33:41] <slaad> They're going to make freakin' lasers!
[06:33:43] <slaad> PEW PEW PEW!
[06:33:57] <JonathanThompson> Apple via PA Semi?
[06:35:44] <{V}> we should start to worry when Apple buys a zoo
[06:36:04] <{V}> OMG!! an iShark! run away!!!
[06:36:07] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku
[06:36:11] * JonathanThompson speculates that'd be the start of the iLlama
[06:36:41] <JonathanThompson> Far warmer and fuzzier than any Windows PC or Zune ;)
[06:36:54] <{V}> :)
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[07:03:10] <umccullough> the iLlama?
[07:03:17] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku
[07:03:18] * umccullough has flashbacks
[07:03:29] <umccullough> DeadYak, done with the upgrade>
[07:04:19] *** umccullough_x has joined #haiku
[07:05:49] <DeadYak> umccullough: nope, that was my cable modem going boom
[07:07:30] <umccullough_x> lame
[07:07:44] <umccullough_x> what's the dist-upgrade commandline again?
[07:07:47] <umccullough_x> mine says nothing to update
[07:08:10] <umccullough_x> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[07:08:26] <DeadYak> umccullough_x: you have to update /etc/apt/sources.list first
[07:08:28] <geist> nice job there googlin that
[07:08:32] <umccullough_x> oh
[07:08:33] <DeadYak> to add the hardy repositories
[07:08:42] <umccullough_x> thanks geist
[07:08:43] <DeadYak> else it won't find those pkgs :P
[07:08:48] <DeadYak> hi geist
[07:09:32] <umccullough_x> geist, to be fair to me, i knew DeadYak  was upgrading his ;)
[07:09:55] <umccullough_x> and i'm lazy
[07:11:27] *** {V} is now known as {V}afk
[07:11:39] <geist> voodoo lady
[07:11:43] <geist> shakin that stick and drivin me crazy
[07:11:49] <geist> eyes are red and hazy
[07:11:53] <geist> doing that stuff that you do
[07:11:57] <geist> messin me up with your voodoo
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[07:15:01] <Kokito> geist, black magic woman? :P
[07:16:01] <Kokito> hmm... TubePositive actually works as advertised
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[07:19:24] <umccullough_x> DeadYak, i'm actually gonna try the update manager
[07:19:30] <Kokito> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_b3LMoQUJ0
[07:19:37] <umccullough_x> since that's what they advertise using on the website :)
[07:19:51] <umccullough_x> 2
[07:19:52] <umccullough_x> doh
[07:19:58] <DeadYak> whatever works for ya :) I just did an sed -i -e 's/gutsy/hardy/g' /etc/apt/sources.list ; apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade here
[07:20:09] <umccullough> heh
[07:20:26] <koki_haiku> you guys are trying to upgrade to ubuntu 8.04?
[07:20:34] <DeadYak> correction, in the process
[07:20:36] <umccullough> xubuntu here
[07:20:41] <DeadYak> 42% [46 tango-icon-theme 978848/1706kB 57%]                                                                  50.1kB/s 16m15s
[07:20:44] <umccullough> i'm now in the process as well :P
[07:21:13] <umccullough_x> watching the time remaining increase currently...
[07:21:21] <umccullough_x> up to 2.5 hours
[07:21:23] <koki_haiku> doesn't the beta upgrade itself through the upgrade manager?
[07:21:31] <DeadYak> what beta?
[07:21:36] <DeadYak> I'm upgrading from gutsy
[07:21:42] <umccullough_x> i'm updated from 7.10 to 8.04 using the update manager
[07:21:45] <umccullough_x> updating
[07:21:58] <DeadYak> I'm upgrading using the CLI since the actual PC's in a different room and I don't feel like going in there :P
[07:22:05] <umccullough_x> :)
[07:22:31] <umccullough_x> i'm getting ~77kb/sec
[07:22:41] <DeadYak> that's roughly what I was averaging
[07:22:48] <koki_haiku> DeadYak, point taken. but then again: doesn't the update manager just do it for you?
[07:22:51] <umccullough_x> it keeps jumping up and down :(
[07:22:56] <koki_haiku> I was under that impression
[07:23:02] <umccullough_x> koki_haiku,  it appears to for me
[07:23:05] <DeadYak> koki_haiku: that requires accessing the GUI :)
[07:23:40] <koki_haiku> DeadYak, I suppose, yes. you have no gui?
[07:23:48] <koki_haiku> or you simple prefer to do it from Terminal?
[07:23:50] <pyCube> we have no gui today
[07:23:54] <DeadYak> I do but as I just said that computer's in a different room so I'm doing it via ssh
[07:24:10] <koki_haiku> ah, ok. :)
[07:25:03] <umccullough_x> nice, just hit 200kb/sec
[07:25:13] <umccullough_x> for like 10 seconds :(
[07:25:14] <DeadYak> I did that in brief spurts
[07:25:17] <umccullough_x> lame
[07:25:31] <DeadYak> averaging around 50 right now
[07:25:42] <pyCube> this is why i did that 2 weeks ago
[07:25:45] <pyCube> hehe
[07:26:12] <DeadYak> 2 weeks ago when it wasn't out?
[07:26:19] <pyCube> yeah
[07:27:00] * DeadYak shrugs
[07:27:02] <DeadYak> I'm not in a hurry :)
[07:27:12] <DeadYak> all I really use that box for is building Haiku most of the time
[07:27:20] <DeadYak> I'm mostly just curious and I want the newer kernel
[07:28:24] <umccullough> same here actually :P
[07:28:31] <umccullough> on both counts
[07:28:50] <umccullough> i wanna see if the intel video driver is much better
[07:29:47] <geist> oh sigh
[07:29:53] <geist> what's the point
[07:29:58] <geist> ultimately it's just an intel video chip
[07:30:09] <geist> do amount of drivers will ever make that dog hunt
[07:30:28] <DeadYak> geist: I thought the X3100 was halfway ok
[07:30:35] <DeadYak> geist: admittedly not holding a candle to ATI/NV but..
[07:30:43] * JonathanThompson screams at DeadYak
[07:31:03] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: aren't you supposed to yodel at people? :P
[07:31:16] <JonathanThompson> Depends on how stressed and tired I am ;P
[07:32:06] * geist screams back
[07:33:38] <Technix> sigh
[07:33:50] <JonathanThompson> Make it at the top of your voice, Technix!
[07:33:55] <Technix> SIGH
[07:34:00] <JonathanThompson> That's BETTER!
[07:34:03] <Technix> SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH
[07:34:05] <Technix> :P
[07:34:27] <JonathanThompson> Imagine an anthropologist stumbling on this 1000 years from now :)
[07:35:06] <geist> yeah, they would see the @ next to my name and correctly assert that i am a god and you are my worshippers
[07:35:16] <JonathanThompson> ...
[07:35:21] * geist commands Technix to kill JonathanThompson
[07:35:26] <JonathanThompson> "All hail the great geist that never was!"
[07:35:39] * Technix sautes JonathanThompson
[07:35:49] <Technix> He shall die a slow death, my leige.
[07:35:51] * JonathanThompson feels much warmer now
[07:36:09] <JonathanThompson> Hades, it's hot in here!  Wait, that's just ME!
[07:36:43] * JonathanThompson was dreaming of sleeping today
[07:36:57] <geist> here's a pet peeve: "laugh out loud"
[07:37:10] * JonathanThompson laughs in silently to counteract it
[07:37:13] <geist> that's just about as bad as "uproarious"
[07:37:24] <geist> why do reviewers use this shit?
[07:37:25] <geist> STOP IT
[07:37:36] <JonathanThompson> LOL
[07:37:40] <DeadYak> they should move zig for great justice instead
[07:37:42] * JonathanThompson torrents geist
[07:37:43] <geist> i'm talking about "laugh out loud" in the context of
[07:37:59] <geist> "movie xxx is laugh out loud funny"
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[07:38:24] <DeadYak> "movie xxx is snicker silently among yourselves funny" wouldn't quite have the same ring :P
[07:38:24] <geist> was just reading some review on amazon that says the book is laugh out loud funny
[07:38:43] <Begasus> morning peeps
[07:39:12] <pyCube> "movie xxx is family circus funny"
[07:39:17] * DeadYak pets Begasus
[07:39:22] <Begasus> meep
[07:39:25] <DeadYak> pyCube: wouldn't that more or less mean 'not'?
[07:39:30] <JonathanThompson> "Movie yyy is Simpsons funny"
[07:39:32] <geist> garfield funny
[07:39:35] <geist> ziggy funny
[07:39:41] <geist> cathy funny!
[07:39:50] <JonathanThompson> Zits funny, even.
[07:39:51] <DeadYak> I miss the Far Side :/
[07:39:58] <geist> andy capp funny
[07:40:03] <JonathanThompson> You mean even with my presence???
[07:40:24] <JonathanThompson> Oh, wait: I've got one foot firmly in.... "The Twilight Zone"
[07:40:38] <DeadYak> yay, done downloading packages
[07:40:56] * JonathanThompson hopes DeadYak keeps his packages properly stowed while in our presence
[07:41:05] <DeadYak> this is going to take forever
[07:41:11] <DeadYak> installing like 1150 packages
[07:41:14] <Technix> forever. +1
[07:41:16] <JonathanThompson> Wow, you think a lot of yourself :P
[07:42:22] * geist busts out some Rex Morgan, MD
[07:42:25] <geist> take that!
[07:42:29] * DeadYak counters with Doogie Howser
[07:42:50] <geist> Mary Worth pwns Doogie
[07:43:14] <geist> http://youtube.com/watch?v=djErgidpXrw
[07:43:58] <umccullough> geist, i'd just be happy if the damn intel 2d driver in linux would work right with my CRT
[07:53:18] <umccullough> jeez... i'm amazed sometimes at how asinine the insurance industry can be
[07:53:59] <umccullough> it's always amusing when i analyze the premium calculation logic of one of our customers and discover there's a real-life way to make the premium go negative
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[08:09:05] <umccullough_x> ah, i found where they're reversing the sign on the negative factor :P
[08:09:08] <umccullough_x> cute
[08:29:03] <umccullough> bad planning
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[08:29:37] <umccullough> trying to use RDP to my machine at work while also upgrading a xubuntu machine and also download the xubuntu iso via bittorrent
[08:31:23] *** Begasus is now known as Begasus_bbl
[08:33:38] * Technix reallly, realllllly hates slow ass database servers
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[08:34:20] <umccullough> that reminds me
[08:34:50] <umccullough> I was explaining to one of my coworkers why bad code contributes to global warming...
[08:35:28] <umccullough> and lazy developers who write slow code are ruining the environment
[08:35:44] <umccullough> he never actually thought about it until i mentioned that
[08:36:13] <pyCube> pixar kills baby polar bears!
[08:36:22] <umccullough> i'm sure they do :)
[08:36:50] <Technix> everytime I renice a process, a kitten dies
[08:38:19] <umccullough> our search for the largest prime number will eventually cause the earth to die
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[08:40:42] <umccullough> the worst is SETI@Home
[08:43:27] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC
[08:44:28] <geist> its a gamble that with it we will find aliens that will come down and save our dumb asses before we cause the earth to die
[08:45:26] <umccullough> that's a good point
[08:46:48] <umccullough> except they'd probably be smart enough to find us first at that rate
[08:47:47] <umccullough> i wonder what we plan to do if we ever do find something
[08:48:02] <umccullough> fire a laser at it?
[08:54:09] <Technix> dang, Silvertide is alright band
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[08:59:06] <ari2-free> hi
[09:00:04] <Technix> hi ari2-free
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[09:18:11] <Thom_Holwerda> boo
[09:18:12] <ari2-free> quiet night tonight
[09:18:16] <Technix> yup
[09:18:18] <Technix> busy working
[09:18:37] <ari2-free> I was wondering about amiga "drawers"...are they really that different than folders?
[09:19:09] <Thom_Holwerda> no
[09:19:29] <Technix> I just polished off 33 tickets in 16minutes
[09:20:09] <Technix> that's suspending shared hosting accounts, deleting, adjusting billing, etc etc
[09:20:14] <Technix> fun fun
[09:28:54] <Technix> If you get the impression that I enjoy my work, I do. :P I reallly enjoy being GOOD at it.
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[09:40:32] <Technix> http://www.usededmonton.com/classified-ad/5261170&category=minivans
[09:40:37] <Technix> what ya think, good deal?
[09:40:42] <Technix> that's CDN $$$
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[09:40:48] <stargater> moin
[09:40:52] <Technix> hey
[09:40:53] <Technix> http://www.usededmonton.com/classified-ad/5261170&category=minivans
[09:40:56] <Technix> good deal?
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[10:18:15] <ThomHolwerda> wait what, luposian set the channel topic?
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[10:45:11] <mmu_man> :P
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[11:15:10] <stargater> mmu_man:  why switch haiku not to gcc4 only? what thinking you about gcc2 vs gcc4? need we gcc2 in 2008 too?
[11:15:28] <mmu_man> for binary compatibility
[11:15:52] <stargater> mmu_man:  for witch apps?
[11:16:30] <mmu_man> good question :)
[11:17:10] <cnuke> beos apps w/o sourcecode?
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[11:18:46] <stargater> mmu_man:  i think haiku admin team must switch to gcc4 and the binary compatibility brake and it compatible on source code base, and this is good, all other apps without source are bad.
[11:19:09] <stargater> cnuke: and? the apps without source are dead!
[11:19:34] <mmu_man> well we decided to have compatibility for R1, so...
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[11:19:56] <stargater> mmu_man:  thats not real r1 is in long long time final
[11:20:35] <stargater> but we are here and now, and ggc4 is using in other project e.g webkit
[11:22:17] <stargater> mmu_man:  when we make a brainstorming gcc2 vs gcc4 and pro/contra , i think gcc4 wins ;-)
[11:23:37] <stargater> the problem is a developer power, for two gcc version, and this is other point, why switch to gcc4 as only!
[11:25:19] <stargater> and the arguments for the binary compatibility is in 2008 "out of time", we still here and wo must look forward not backward.
[11:25:33] <stargater> wo = we
[11:28:06] <stargater> and firefox is more and more gcc4 only too
[11:28:24] <stargater> and alle comming technology too
[11:29:43] <stargater> haiku is a littel bit out of time, but when switch to gcc4 then is this a singal = "we will more"
[11:30:54] <stargater> we are not windows who must backward compatibility of binary layer.
[11:34:34] <stargater> oh my battery is blinking, so  go offline , see later . ps: pleas go inside and ask you what is better gcc2 ore gcc4 ;-)
[11:34:37] <stargater> cu
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[11:46:17] <Roey> oh hello
[11:46:18] <Roey> nice
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[11:51:57] <anarchos> hola
[11:54:32] <anarchos> anyone have any luck getting networking going under Parallels?
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[11:56:24] <anarchos> i can get it to load the driver if i uncheck "attach network cable at startup" but if i enable that, it wont even boot..
[12:00:39] <CIA-52> stippi * r25145 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/View.cpp:
[12:00:39] <CIA-52> * Added link flushing where the change is supposed to happen as soon as
[12:00:39] <CIA-52>  possible on the server side (for example Show() and Hide() need to be
[12:00:39] <CIA-52>  immediate). But also SetViewColor() and a few others. This fixes the
[12:00:39] <CIA-52>  bug encountered in Pairs.
[12:00:40] <CIA-52> * Removed NOTE in DrawAfterChildren(), since it was outdated.
[12:00:44] <CIA-52> * Corrected a typo in a comment.
[12:01:31] <CIA-52> stippi * r25146 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/pairs/PairsWindow.cpp: * Removed no longer needed work around when Showing buttons.
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[12:09:36] <vbmithr> what is parallels ?
[12:12:06] <ThomHolwerda> vbmithr: a virtualiser
[12:12:18] <ThomHolwerda> likw vmware
[12:12:21] <ThomHolwerda> or qemu
[12:12:34] <vbmithr> ok
[12:12:45] <vbmithr> It has an advantage on these two ?
[12:12:56] <ThomHolwerda> dunno, i dont use virtualisers
[12:13:04] <vbmithr> okay :)
[12:13:11] <vbmithr> it's much better on real hardware indeed
[12:13:15] <ThomHolwerda> native all the way baby :P
[12:13:30] <ThomHolwerda> "Real men don't virtualise."
[12:13:50] <vbmithr> haha, that's true
[12:14:19] <Teknomancer> virtualization is invaluable for developers... who well may or maynot be real men :P
[12:14:48] <vbmithr> It's not the same thing in real hardware
[12:14:59] <vbmithr> the virtualizers just give a little preview of what it looks like
[12:15:12] <Teknomancer> sure but when you're writing an OS, each time trying it on real hardware is a pita
[12:15:17] <vbmithr> but absolutely not what it respond or some other things
[12:15:36] <Teknomancer> besides as hardware gets faster, virtualization is at advantage
[12:16:06] <vbmithr> with cpu extensions
[12:16:46] <Teknomancer> that as well;
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[12:20:32] <vbmithr> anarchos: if you use qemu, yon can have networking auto configured with qemu -net nic -net user Haiku.image
[12:22:34] <anarchos> thanks
[12:23:42] <anarchos> and btw, never used qemu or vmware before, but i believe parallels is the only to offer "coherence mode"  i can run, for example, winxp, and have parallels "pop out" an application so its on my os x desktop
[12:23:45] <anarchos> not in a window
[12:23:54] <anarchos> obviously doesnt work for haiku, though :P
[12:33:33] <mmu_man> ah stargater wanted a reason for gcc2
[12:33:39] <mmu_man> there is a compelling one
[12:33:46] <mmu_man> SoundPlay's "Register Meee" :))
[12:33:51] <Technix> hehe
[12:34:16] <Teknomancer> can't we ask Marco to recompile SP ? :)
[12:34:23] <Technix> we can
[12:37:00] <anarchos> hmm soundplay
[12:37:12] <ThomHolwerda> dont like soundplay :(
[12:37:18] <anarchos> i paid like $12 for that back in teh day...wonder if i could somehow get it relicenced?
[12:37:29] <anarchos> im sure ive long lost all the info/key
[12:37:41] <mmu_man> no mail archive ?
[12:38:04] <anarchos> was the days before gmail :P
[12:38:40] <Teknomancer> i love SP
[12:38:41] <anarchos> i probably went through 4 or 5 dial-up isps supplied email addresses before i jumped on the webmail bandwagon w/ gmail
[12:38:44] <Teknomancer> the best damn audio player I've ever used
[12:39:01] <anarchos> 'tis ok, but i hate to admit that i really like itunes
[12:39:49] <Teknomancer> SP was simple, fast, had killer EQ and just seemed the perfect player for BeOS.. nothing even comes close IMHO
[12:40:02] <anarchos> SP was the shit, though, IIRC, was a lot better than that winamp clone (evn tho you could set a winamp skin in SP, i think)
[12:40:05] <Teknomancer> SP+spicykeys = unbeatable combo
[12:40:25] * mmu_man pets MouseSectrumAnalyzer
[12:40:40] <Teknomancer> if you're quick enough you can avoid that Register Meee ;)
[12:40:48] <Teknomancer> with spicykeys that is
[12:41:33] <anarchos> crap, converted the "senryu" image into a parallels image and deleted the original...gotta download again :/
[12:42:59] <Technix> SoundPlay is still the best mp3 player I've ever used. period.
[12:43:20] * slaad is also a fan.
[12:43:24] <Teknomancer> yep
[12:43:41] <Technix> I remember recording some live folk sessions and burning tracks to disc while recording, and then playing back any track at the same time, no skips
[12:43:46] <Technix> on a p3 733
[12:44:35] <Teknomancer> yes and the possibilities with Cortex + SP is amazing
[12:46:15] <ari2-free> what exactly 'is' cortex?
[12:46:22] <anarchos> slaad: how's it hangin? ltns
[12:46:36] <Technix> you know that Marco was also the first to have a layout engine for BeOS?
[12:46:42] <mmu_man> ari2-free it's a tool to interact with the Media Kit's nodes
[12:46:52] <Teknomancer> cortex lets you play with the media roster
[12:46:55] <Teknomancer> you can reconnect nodes
[12:46:58] <Teknomancer> re-route them
[12:47:00] <slaad> Canuckian anarchos ?
[12:47:02] <Technix> cortex was awesome
[12:47:05] <Teknomancer> like I can connect SoundPlay's output to BamBam
[12:47:12] <slaad> Awesome. And fragile.
[12:47:15] <Teknomancer> and it just worked so well
[12:47:26] <ari2-free> so it's like a pipe?
[12:47:59] <CIA-52> stippi * r25147 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/servers/app/newerClipping/main.cpp: I have no idea anymore what I was messing with here, but it looks interesting.
[12:48:12] <slaad> y
[12:48:14] <slaad> Yeah.
[12:48:17] <Teknomancer> Cortex was a UI for the underlying functionality of BeOS media roster
[12:48:21] <slaad> So you'd connect the output of one application to the input of another.
[12:48:22] <Technix> its actually a muxer
[12:48:31] <slaad> And through mux/demuxers
[12:48:34] <slaad> And VST filters and what not.
[12:48:37] <Technix> and you could have multiple input/outputs
[12:48:41] <Teknomancer> yes
[12:48:49] <Technix> in a drag-n-drop interface
[12:48:58] <Teknomancer> anyone tried Cortex with Haiku?
[12:48:59] <Technix> it was very swee
[12:49:01] <ari2-free> interesting
[12:49:02] <Technix> it was very sweet
[12:49:33] <CIA-52> stippi * r25148 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/servers/app/constrain_clipping_region/ (. Jamfile main.cpp run):
[12:49:33] <CIA-52> A test I used for checking ConstrainClippingRegion() with regards to states,
[12:49:33] <CIA-52> scales and origins.
[12:50:05] <mmu_man> Teknomancer it's in svn already
[12:50:14] <CIA-52> stippi * r25149 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/servers/app/scrollbar/ (. Jamfile main.cpp run):
[12:50:14] <CIA-52> A test I used for debugging Pe's scrollbar problems. (SetSteps() influences
[12:50:14] <CIA-52> proportion if proportion was never set.)
[12:50:26] <Teknomancer> mmu_man: nice, and does it play nice with Haiku's media kit ?
[12:50:34] <mmu_man> seems to works well
[12:50:39] <Teknomancer> great!
[12:51:06] <anarchos> can i convert a vmware image to a qemu image somehow?
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[12:51:45] <Teknomancer> anarchos: yes I think so
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[12:51:55] <Teknomancer> infact I think qemu had a utility for it
[12:52:41] <mmu_man> anarchos AFAIK it's just a raw image with a header so you should just skip the header if you know the size
[12:53:02] <anarchos> all i could find is some qemu thing for os x that has some funky front end on it and it wont take parimiters...
[12:53:03] <mmu_man> which should be documented int he vmware image tool in svn
[12:53:13] <anarchos> ok thanks
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[12:53:30] <CIA-52> stippi * r25150 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/servers/app/async_drawing/ (. Jamfile main.cpp run): (log message trimmed)
[12:53:30] <CIA-52> A test I am currently working on which is supposed to behave a bit like
[12:53:30] <CIA-52> Firefox. It stores the active clipping region of a view when Draw() is
[12:53:30] <CIA-52> invoked, and uses that for asynchronous drawing. The test already shows
[12:53:30] <CIA-52> a couple of problems. When PushState() / PopState() is used, it is not
[12:53:33] <CIA-52> equivalent to ConstrainClippingRegion(&someRegion) /
[12:53:34] <CIA-52> ConstrainClippingRegion(NULL). Another problem shows when adding delays
[12:53:47] <CIA-52> stippi * r25151 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/servers/app/Jamfile: Enabled the test apps I added.
[12:56:40] <Technix> I don't get the correlation between the name and the site content --> http://www.zetajournal.org/
[12:56:49] <Technix> anyone know? lol
[12:57:33] <ari2-free> probly taken over
[12:58:04] <Teknomancer> anarchos: qemu-img file.vmdk -O raw file2.bin
[12:59:16] <CIA-52> stippi * r25152 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/servers/app/async_drawing/Jamfile: Wrong subfolder in Jamfile
[13:07:54] <CIA-52> stippi * r25153 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/View.cpp:
[13:07:54] <CIA-52> Reordered methods a bit. SetOrigin() and so on is state related. PopState()
[13:07:54] <CIA-52> PushState() should be at the top of the state related methods.
[13:08:29] <Technix> well yeah.. no duh.. sheesh... About time that he did that change... amateurs. :P
[13:08:52] * Technix loves seeing the commits roll in, its neat
[13:10:10] <CIA-52> stippi * r25154 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/View.cpp:
[13:10:10] <CIA-52> Appearently, PopState() should flush right a way if not in a transaction,
[13:10:10] <CIA-52> or else the server will keep working with the state and especially a clipping
[13:10:10] <CIA-52> region which should not be effective anymore. This fixes one problem I could
[13:10:10] <CIA-52> observe with my test app.
[13:14:54] <anarchos> Teknomancer: got it to work, networking is a no go, though :P
[13:15:07] <anarchos> ah well, its 4:15am, i should be getting to sleep :D
[13:15:47] <Teknomancer> cool,
[13:15:50] <Teknomancer> hmm
[13:15:52] <Teknomancer> ok
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[13:33:17] <Technix> hey stippi wassup
[13:39:50] <CIA-52> axeld * r25155 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/EventDispatcher.cpp:
[13:39:50] <CIA-52> * fDragBitmap was never initialized, leading to occasional crashes after the
[13:39:50] <CIA-52>  first mouse click.
[13:39:50] <CIA-52> * Minor cleanup.
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[13:53:56] * TuneTracker scans channel for signs of life...
[13:54:13] <Technix> boo
[13:54:17] <TuneTracker> yikes!
[13:54:20] <Technix> :P
[13:54:22] <TuneTracker> don't sneak up on me like that!!~
[13:54:23] <PulkoMandy> :p
[13:54:39] <TuneTracker> mornin'
[13:54:42] * Technix scared himself actually
[13:54:49] * Technix looked in mirror
[13:54:57] <TuneTracker> hehe
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[13:56:41] <TuneTracker> howdy mmu_man
[13:56:47] <mmu_man> re
[13:56:56] <mmu_man> hmm libroot doesn't build anymore for ppc
[13:57:24] <PulkoMandy> :(
[13:57:56] * Technix is doing very boring billing
[13:58:11] <DeadYak> there's any other kind?
[13:58:17] <Technix> The numbers, they surround me!
[13:59:24] <Technix> finally, last cheque
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[14:03:47] *** helf|away is now known as helf
[14:03:54] <helf> hi
[14:05:44] <Technix> low
[14:07:09] <mmu_man> should we add cddblinkd to svn ?
[14:07:23] <Technix> might be nice, but is it really a core component?
[14:07:49] <Technix> there's an entire Optional area of the SVN, yeah?
[14:08:00] <Teknomancer> of course it's not, but still.. might be a nice one to add
[14:08:48] <Technix> its one of those nice surprises too when people go to put in their audio discs
[14:09:12] <Technix> I would say, add it, but put it in optional so that the Installer gives them a choice (and its default in optional list)
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[14:22:13] <CIA-52> mmu_man * r25156 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/posix/glibc/arch/ (m68k/Jamfile ppc/Jamfile): Add memrchr for ppc and m68k too. Please don't forget other archs when adding stuff :P
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[14:26:03] <Technix> oh my.... http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1800887
[14:27:56] <mmu_man> hmm ppc binutils still buggy
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[14:30:03] <helf> aaah!
[14:30:11] * helf stopped it too slowly at the condom scene
[14:30:16] <helf> i hate you Technix :P
[14:30:25] <Technix> :P
[14:30:50] <Technix> hey, I didn't make it!
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[14:47:10] <CIA-52> mmu_man * r25157 /haiku/trunk/src/libs/bsd/pty.cpp: gcc4 complains about missing proto for strcpy().
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[14:57:56] * DeadYak pets urnenfeld
[15:05:03] <urnenfeld> hi DeadYak
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[15:09:24] * helf yawns
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[15:12:45] <helf> a comment on the old-computers.com atari falcon page..
[15:12:47] <helf> "this is the first computer i ever used, i remember it had a bumblebee for the cursor, after it's hard drive died my parents threw it out and got a Tandy 1000"
[15:12:49] * helf cries
[15:20:33] <mmu_man> lol
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[15:25:42] <xcasex> man writing to this one disk i have is like nasa mission control lag time to the mars rover
[15:26:50] <DeadYak> hahaha
[15:26:57] <DeadYak> that bad, eh?
[15:27:32] <xcasex> and the funniest thing. its a sata disk. doesnt show any errors in SMART or funny transfer times. but when doing more than one write or read to or from it. Dayum.
[15:27:35] <xcasex> yeah :(
[15:28:07] <DeadYak> not the controller?
[15:28:21] <xcasex> nah that would make the other drives suffer the same fate
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[15:32:45] <helf> its sata.
[15:32:48] <helf> thats the problem ;)
[15:33:14] <helf> wow, sonnets g4 upgrades for ~9600 macs is only 99bucks..
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[15:57:01] <helf> oh my god
[15:57:06] <helf> my paycheck was for 22 hours
[15:57:08] * helf cries
[15:58:18] <Teknomancer> hm
[15:58:21] <Teknomancer> you get paid hourly?
[15:58:26] <helf> yeah
[15:58:36] <helf> $7/h .. so sucky paycheck :)
[15:59:02] <Teknomancer> what do you do?
[15:59:13] <helf> IT Gopher at public library
[16:00:19] <Teknomancer> ah right
[16:01:34] <DeadYak> I'm assuming 22 hours is bad?
[16:02:39] <helf> yes
[16:02:46] <helf> i usually have 32-38
[16:03:59] <mmu_man> 22 fits better in a day :)
[16:05:04] <helf> oh, i know why
[16:05:18] <helf> i left early after spraining my ankle that week and also didnt come in the next day
[16:05:24] <helf> ok, that explains it :)
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[16:24:54] <Monni> jabber is fun when you add yourself in your contact list ;)
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[16:26:58] <helf> hawt
[16:26:58] <helf> http://gizmodo.com/383944/sexy-lady-offers-to-harvest-virginity-of-net-neutrality+supporting-nerds-nsfw
[16:27:01] <helf> "nsfw"
[16:32:06] <Monni> ewww
[16:32:15] <helf> ;)
[16:36:01] <umccullough> yeah great - after upgrading to hardy i got no video on this monitor
[16:36:09] <umccullough> somehow i expected that
[16:36:14] <helf> thats not possible!
[16:36:18] <helf> ubuntu is perfect!
[16:36:35] <mmu_man> lol
[16:36:52] <mmu_man> I would not use anything else then :p
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[16:36:56] <helf> you did something wrong
[16:37:01] <helf> :P
[16:37:09] <MichaelHenry> helf: Stuff is leaving tomorrow....
[16:37:38] <DeadYak> umccullough: apparently my upgrade didn't go so well either, rebooted that box ~30 minutes ago and it never came back up
[16:37:40] <Monni> I'm using hardy atm... works great...
[16:37:42] <DeadYak> won't know why until I get home though
[16:37:55] <umccullough> DeadYak, maybe that's the problem - now that I look, the hd light is on solid
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[16:38:10] <helf> MichaelHenry: what is?
[16:38:14] <umccullough> and trying to change to the text console yield crap also
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[16:38:23] <MichaelHenry> hard drive
[16:38:28] <MichaelHenry> scsi stuff
[16:38:35] <MichaelHenry> that i'm giving you
[16:38:40] <helf> oh, cool :)
[16:38:49] <MichaelHenry> remember the email?
[16:38:50] <helf> do i need to send you some cash for shipping?
[16:38:54] <helf> yes, vaguely :)
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[16:40:00] <Monni> lol... now I have 20 copies of me in Jabber ;)
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[16:40:53] <MichaelHenry> no cash setup a wireless network yesterday and got paid. Vaguely? Here I have been worried that I wasn't shipping it fast enuff. :D
[16:41:09] <helf> lol
[16:41:14] <helf> well, i said i was in no hurry :P
[16:41:15] <Teknomancer> cu, have a fever :(
[16:41:18] <helf> sweet, thanks though :)
[16:41:19] <Teknomancer> damn
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[16:41:22] <helf> cya
[16:41:23] <MichaelHenry> lol
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[16:41:29] <umccullough> ah, looks like it's fine after reboot
[16:41:46] <MichaelHenry> helf: Do you know yab?
[16:41:47] <stpere> morning
[16:42:40] <helf> who is yab?
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[16:42:49] <DeadYak> helf: yab's a language
[16:43:01] <MichaelHenry> I guess that means no :D
[16:43:06] <helf> :]
[16:43:14] <MichaelHenry> lmao
[16:43:24] <duane> Is the current build borked for anyone else? :/
[16:43:38] <duane> problems with pty.c and an undeclared strcpy...
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[16:43:51] <DeadYak> duane: mmu_man fixed those like half an hour ago if you mean on gcc4 ..
[16:44:13] <DeadYak> I can't test a build here though right now
[16:44:31] <duane> nope, I'm...
[16:44:36] <absabs> hi DeadYak
[16:44:37] <duane> shit, I build the wrong gcc >.<
[16:44:38] <absabs> hi stippi
[16:44:45] <DeadYak> hi absabs
[16:44:46] <duane> and it is NOT fixed :P
[16:45:17] <DeadYak> I dunno, I just saw him commit fixes with descriptions that sounded similar :) my box is down atm
[16:45:18] <duane> damnit now I have to build everything again >.<
[16:45:45] * duane huggles git-svn
[16:46:11] <helf> MichaelHenry: unless its something terribly important, i forget about it quickly. deadyak can attest to that ;)
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[16:47:08] <MichaelHenry> You suffer from C.R.S. too.
[16:47:25] <helf> its genetic
[16:47:27] <helf> :)
[16:47:33] <MichaelHenry> :D
[16:47:46] <helf> im finally mailing a hdd to yak that i said i'd mail like 3 months ago
[16:47:48] <helf> heh
[16:48:05] <MichaelHenry> lol
[16:48:29] <helf> DeadYak: speaking of which. i did multiple boot up tests with the drive and ran every single program i installed. all seems to work perfect.
[16:48:48] <stpere> but I bet shipping will kill it :)
[16:48:49] <DeadYak> good to hear :)
[16:48:56] * DeadYak slaps stpere
[16:48:57] <helf> shush :P
[16:48:58] <helf> dont jinx it
[16:49:02] <helf> i hate mailing hdds :)
[16:51:00] <CIA-52> bga * r25158 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/storage/Node.cpp: (log message trimmed)
[16:51:00] <CIA-52> From the BeBook:
[16:51:00] <CIA-52> Node Locking
[16:51:00] <CIA-52> Another feature provided by the BNode class is "node locking": Through BNode's
[16:51:00] <CIA-52> Lock() function you can restrict access to the node. The lock is removed when
[16:51:01] <CIA-52> Unlock() is called, or when the BNode object is deleted.
[16:51:02] <MichaelHenry> Just put a lot of padding in i
[16:51:05] <CIA-52> There is still something wrong with locking though. For example, it looks like
[16:51:06] <MichaelHenry> it
[16:52:10] <helf> yeah, im going to go buy a roll of bubble wrap
[16:52:18] <helf> and before you freak, the drive it in an anti-static bag :P
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[16:54:04] <stpere> hi bga
[16:54:10] <bga> Hello.
[16:55:51] <duane> Hi bga
[16:55:54] <duane> where's r?
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[17:06:35] <umccullough> hey bga :)
[17:06:40] *** va1 has joined #haiku
[17:08:31] <DeadYak> bga!
[17:08:32] <umccullough> helf, you don't have a stack fo HD shipping containers?
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[17:20:38] <helf> umccullough: i used them all up
[17:20:41] <helf> also
[17:20:42] <helf> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260230842519
[17:20:43] <helf> wow
[17:20:48] <helf> 12.3 liter and only 60hp :P
[17:22:34] <Thom_Holwerda> http://www.osnews.com/story/19682/The_Legality_of_EULAs_in_The_Netherlands
[17:22:37] <Thom_Holwerda> have fun
[17:22:57] <helf> oh boy :)
[17:28:40] <umccullough> helf, i saw a vintage race at infineon raceway in sonoma a couple years ago - it was neat
[17:28:47] <helf> cool
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[17:33:40] <CIA-52> bga * r25159 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/storage/Node.cpp: Shame on me. The node is actually unlocked in close_fd().
[17:33:53] <helf> oh no
[17:34:04] <helf> my rabbit diesel engine might be an interference engine....
[17:34:13] <helf> i hope i didnt mess anything up when the timing belt snapped
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[17:35:27] <umccullough> oh yikes :P
[17:36:29] <umccullough> anyhow, time to go to work
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[17:36:56] <helf> cya
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[17:41:51] <helf> hm
[17:42:00] <helf> im down to .5kb/s upload to ddew..
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[17:53:06] <leszek> hi
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[17:58:48] <CIA-52> bga * r25160 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/mail/MailSettings.cpp:
[17:58:48] <CIA-52>  something unlikelly to happen (although not impossible).
[17:58:54] <CIA-52>  creating a mixed inbound/outbound account.
[18:00:31] <helf> star wars on the sharp x68000 is awesome :)
[18:00:32] <helf> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ferGvLwQjc&feature=related
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[18:12:37] <tqh> that was a long video, which got boring after a while.
[18:13:24] <DeadYak> http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2319603620080423 - I think this wins "best headline of the day"
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[18:16:51] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: Gerald sent me the S3 Trio/Virge driver. :)
[18:17:27] * BenoitRen concludes that SeaMonkey has graphics bugs
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[18:18:55] <BenoitRen> Ugh, it definitely does. o_O
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[18:31:09] <absabs> time to bed
[18:31:10] <absabs> bye
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[18:34:36] <emitrax> hi
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[18:35:45] <CIA-52> bga * r25161 /haiku/trunk/data/system/boot/Bootscript:
[18:35:45] <CIA-52>  that requires a single parameter.
[18:35:46] <CIA-52>  set it to start on boot in the E-mail preferences app.
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[18:42:53] <{V}> "launch_param_1()" hmm I wonder why that's needed
[18:42:56] * {V} is off to read the fine source
[18:46:56] <Monni> erf...
[18:50:50] <helf> what the hell
[18:50:50] <{V}> furball, Monni ?
[18:50:51] <helf> http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20080425/news/843120704&tc=yahoo
[18:50:56] <helf> thats the vet we used!
[18:53:02] <{V}> better send a get-well-soon card then, helf ;)
[18:53:58] <helf> heh
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[19:06:01] <stpere> yay, my dev environment is ready again
[19:06:11] <stpere> after a ubuntu fresh install
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[19:16:44] <mmu_man> plop bga
[19:17:23] <bga> mmu_man: Hey.
[19:17:45] * mmu_man invited to demo Haiku at Live eTIC
[19:18:05] <mmu_man> http://linux-live-usb.org/ip/index.php
[19:18:42] <bga> Cool!
[19:19:34] <bga> mmu_man: So, Am I right to think that calling BNode::Lock() on a directory node and calling WriteAttr() on that vary same node object should not fail because of the lock?
[19:19:57] <mmu_man> I was never sure about the semantics of _klock_vnode_()
[19:20:03] <mmu_man> it was never really documented
[19:20:15] <DeadYak> if anything I would have assumed that the lock was only supposed to prevent a different thread from accessing the node concurrently
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[19:21:43] <MindChild> So, does OSNews actually delete posts now?
[19:22:48] <mmu_man> but is writing an attribute accessing the node or not? :)
[19:22:52] <mmu_man> bbl
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[19:23:11] <MindChild> A coworker had a funny ass troll there about a week ago, which has disappeared
[19:23:49] <MindChild> I put it to the test last night, and now it is gone too
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[19:26:32] <DeadYak> apparently no one else thought it was funny, as per usual
[19:27:50] <MindChild> Well, that isn't really the matter at hand
[19:28:14] <MindChild> what good is a site that takes comments if they only keep the ones around that fit their view?
[19:28:16] <pyCube> i've never really been compelled to leave comments on websites
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[19:29:22] <MindChild> I mean, seriously, how do we know Eugenia hasn't had some anti-beos commentary deleted?
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[19:29:51] <pyCube> seriously.. does it matter?
[19:29:53] <pyCube> heh
[19:29:59] <duaneb> pyCube, it matters. A lot.
[19:30:10] <MindChild> Actually it does. It makes the whole credability of the site worthless
[19:30:43] <pyCube> oh yeah, i forgot.. the credability or lack thereof of osnews totally matters
[19:31:18] <bga> DeadYak: In BeOS that how it works. Otherwise MDR would not work on it.
[19:31:24] <bga> As it was not working on haiku.
[19:32:25] <stpere> Haiku definitely feels faster now on vmware
[19:32:28] <stpere> in*
[19:32:34] <MindChild> pyCube: That is the worst logic I have ever heard
[19:32:41] <pyCube> huh?
[19:33:09] <pyCube> yours or mine?
[19:33:12] <MindChild> "Ignore the problems in the product, because the product sucks"
[19:33:18] <DeadYak> last I checked they only ever delete comments that are either outright unrelated spam or utterly offtopic trolling
[19:33:34] <DeadYak> considering most of your comments in here seem to fit the latter category, I can't honestly say I'm surprised
[19:33:43] <pyCube> MindChild: i never said anythign about osnews sucking or otherwise
[19:34:01] <MindChild> DeadYak: But that is just it. Once you delete ANYTHING, you have nothing to back yourself up on when people start accusng you of deleting legitimate posts
[19:34:53] <MindChild> The comments and moderation that go with it become worthless
[19:34:59] <pyCube> ..because it totally matters
[19:35:07] <MindChild> Would you shut the fuck up
[19:35:11] <MindChild> it OBVIOUSLY matters to someone
[19:35:21] <MindChild> else I wouldn't be talking about it
[19:35:39] <luroh> stpere: aye, Ingo fixed it yesterday in r25131
[19:35:44] <MindChild> "Nice to hear your kid is dying of cancer... like it totally matters"
[19:36:02] <DeadYak> so you're honestly conflating comments on some random news site with cancer?
[19:36:02] <pyCube> no.. people are sad and have nothing better to do than to imagine importance in websites and their commenting systems
[19:36:02] <DeadYak> wow.
[19:36:29] <MindChild> pyCube: I am sorry. Is the internet only IRC to you?
[19:36:48] <MindChild> DeadYak: It is called an illustrative embelishment
[19:37:10] <MindChild> Something that matters to someone else, but blowing it off as unimportant because it is unimportant to you
[19:37:48] <pyCube> MindChild: this is big.. some guy once said something in an irc channel.. the credability of sadi channel is in peril.. we should like, start an online petition to do somehting about it
[19:37:54] <MindChild> I always appreciate when someone attacks the metaphor as a means to decry the arguement
[19:38:07] <MindChild> it shows so much capacity
[19:38:28] <pyCube> MindChild: your metaphor was retarded.. not our fault
[19:38:40] <MindChild> sniff sniff
[19:38:50] <MindChild> at least troll with some effort
[19:39:27] <MindChild> Sorry that some maintainer has been tainting Haiku souce code... like it matters
[19:39:59] <pyCube> thats not at all what your saying
[19:40:27] <MindChild> Who cares what I am saying? Like it matters...
[19:40:41] <pyCube> ok
[19:41:34] <pyCube> osnews comments are more like the bickering of people discussing the sick kid with cancer than the sick kid with cancer
[19:42:32] <pyCube> anyway..
[19:42:44] <pyCube> fuck! why did i have to look at the screen just then
[19:42:56] <DeadYak> late
[19:42:57] <DeadYak> ?
[19:43:11] <pyCube> i could totally be making better use of my time..like reading osnews comments and caring about them
[19:43:31] <duaneb> damnit
[19:43:36] <duaneb> I hate linux >.<
[19:44:22] <duaneb> who had the bright idea of saying, 'Hey! le's make a gui, but do it the console way! we can use control as our gui modifier and store the apps in /usr/bin, so we don't *know* that they're a gui app! YEA!'
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[19:45:02] <DeadYak> duaneb: that problem gets a bit more ambiguous when you have an app that offers both types of interfaces depending on how it's executed :)
[19:45:06] <DeadYak> where both = cli and gui
[19:47:05] <helf> aw
[19:47:14] <helf> why do i always miss mindchilds and pycubes arguments? :(
[19:47:29] <pyCube> helf: i can start it again if you want
[19:47:37] <helf> ok :)
[19:47:40] * helf sits back and grabs popcorn
[19:47:41] <helf> :P
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[19:48:13] <Monni> lol
[19:48:34] <duaneb> DeadYak, I think that's poor design
[19:48:43] <pyCube> on second thought.. meh
[19:48:45] <duaneb> DeadYak, those are two very different applications
[19:49:25] <duaneb> I mean, maybe a console application can LAUNCH a regular application...
[19:49:29] <helf> heh
[19:50:00] <pyCube> so gui apps should only be launchable via point/click?
[19:50:35] <duaneb> pyCube, no, I never said that
[19:50:42] <pyCube> ok
[19:50:50] <duaneb> I said that they should be easily differentiable from console applications
[19:51:10] <duaneb> like beos's /boot/beos/apps  or mac os x's /Applications
[19:51:13] <pyCube> why?
[19:51:46] <duaneb> pyCube, because otherwise you have to digging through /usr/bin searching for which application with which to open a file
[19:51:56] <duaneb> that's painful; no user should have to do that.
[19:52:06] <helf> differentiation in nextstep is gui app = .app extension, cli app = no extention, usually
[19:52:30] <duaneb> helf, well, the nextstep applications are bundles
[19:52:37] <duaneb> osx's derives from that
[19:52:42] <pyCube> duaneb: you mean like in the "open with..." gui situation?
[19:52:49] <duaneb> pyCube, that's just an example
[19:52:51] <duaneb> but yes
[19:53:02] <duaneb> also, it makes it more difficult to install applications
[19:53:14] <duaneb> (another reason I like mac os x's apps. Drag 'n drop install.)
[19:54:35] <Monni> and mixing apps from different archs on same computer ;)
[19:55:41] <duaneb> 'zactly
[19:55:50] <duaneb> not the most efficient, but it's EASY!
[19:56:24] <duaneb> (the smallest a binary can get on mac os x is 16kb + 512 bytes for a multi-arch binary)
[19:56:27] <Monni> and pretty fast even on decent computer
[19:56:29] <MindChild> Like it even matters
[19:56:50] <duaneb> MindChild, like 'what' even matters?
[19:57:13] <burfi> cli interface for gui apps is for lack of standard application ipc and scripting
[19:57:56] <duaneb> burfi, you can have scripting without the cli interface
[19:58:10] <DeadYak> burfi: um...no...if I'm using the app remotely via ssh or whatnot, then please don't tell me using ipc + scripting is convenient or friendly
[19:58:10] <burfi> that is what I'm saying
[19:58:27] <Monni> bbl... gotta go watch documentary on my own family on local cable channel ;)
[19:58:28] <duaneb> burfi, ahh, I se
[19:58:30] <duaneb> see*
[19:58:37] <duaneb> so, we're all in agreement here? :P
[19:58:56] <duaneb> DeadYak, how do you use a gui app remotely? o.O
[19:59:09] <DeadYak> duaneb: see the aforementioned discussion about dual interfaces
[19:59:21] <DeadYak> if I'm using it on ssh I get a command line interface, if I'm using it locally I get a GUI
[19:59:28] <DeadYak> why is that such a difficult concept?
[19:59:59] <PulkoMandy> +++
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[20:00:55] <duaneb> DeadYak, but those are two DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS
[20:01:11] <DeadYak> even if it's the exact same app?
[20:01:25] <duaneb> DeadYak, they shouldn't be the same app
[20:01:28] <DeadYak> says you
[20:01:33] <duaneb> they are two completely different things
[20:01:36] <MindChild> Because the whole idea, especially with X is network transparencu
[20:01:42] <duaneb> you use them completely differently
[20:01:47] <MindChild> the local/remote implementation shouldnt matter, in theory
[20:01:56] <DeadYak> why are they two completely different things? if they're both dumb front ends to the same code, where's the distinction?
[20:02:00] <pyCube> duaneb: something the context/entry point SHOULD completely change the way an app behaves
[20:02:03] <pyCube> sometimes
[20:02:28] <duaneb> DeadYak, the WAY you use them
[20:02:35] <DeadYak> so?
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[20:02:45] <MindChild> I prefer writing a CLI version, then using a pipe with a front end
[20:02:54] <duaneb> that's why people have lynx and firefox on the same system
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[20:03:57] <duaneb> DeadYak, it is extremely useful to differentiate the two applications, even if they amount to the same functionality
[20:04:16] <DeadYak> that's where I don't necessarily agree
[20:04:18] <duaneb> compare bash and the tracker: they do almost exactly the same thing
[20:04:28] <duaneb> would you like them to merge into one application?
[20:05:02] <DeadYak> except they don't.
[20:05:13] <DeadYak> vim vs gvim would be a valid analogy
[20:05:39] <pyCube> duaneb: its extremely easy to differentiate use cases/contexts of a single app, and therefor to have the appropraite expectations of the app behaviour
[20:06:50] <duaneb> DeadYak, they do have the same functionality
[20:06:55] <DeadYak> no they don't.
[20:07:00] <duaneb> Yes, they do!
[20:07:03] <DeadYak> no they don't.
[20:07:11] <duaneb> you manage files with both.
[20:07:18] <DeadYak> bash does not have built-in functionality to handle half the stuff Tracker does, it relies on executing external commands to do most of the grunt work.
[20:07:33] <duaneb> DeadYak, that's a minor difference
[20:07:36] <DeadYak> lol
[20:07:44] <DeadYak> that's a far bigger difference than the same app having a different front end.
[20:07:53] <duaneb> DeadYak, ok, not minor, but irrelivant
[20:07:58] <DeadYak> if that's minor, then what I was talking about was irrelevant.
[20:08:04] <duaneb> DeadYak, and vim was built for the command line
[20:08:08] <DeadYak> so?
[20:08:33] <DeadYak> I'm talking about using THE EXACT SAME FUCKING CODE with a different onscreen representation
[20:08:37] <DeadYak> bash vs Tracker is not even remotely that.
[20:08:49] <duaneb> DeadYak, ok, so why doesn't tracker have a command line representation?
[20:08:52] <duaneb> that's what I'm getting at
[20:09:01] <DeadYak> when did I say every app had to?
[20:09:13] <DeadYak> I just said I don't think it's a bad idea when it makes sense.
[20:09:21] <duaneb> (you use vim and gvim the same way, btw, so it makes sense for the two to be merged together)
[20:09:46] <duaneb> DeadYak, I don't even think of gvim as a desktop application, but as an extension of the command line
[20:09:53] <duaneb> firefox, however, is a desktop application
[20:10:21] <duaneb> so is everything in /boot/beos/apps
[20:10:55] <duaneb> I'm saying they should be differentiable from command line apps
[20:11:14] <DeadYak> shrug we seem to be at an impasse then, because nothing you've argued is convincing to me, and vice versa
[20:12:50] <duaneb> DeadYak, sorry, I think that you agree with me and I'm not being articulate, so I'll continue for about a minute :P
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[20:13:04] <DeadYak> duaneb: no, we don't agree.
[20:13:12] <DeadYak> duaneb: because I don't see the issue with one app being context sensitive
[20:13:15] <DeadYak> whereas you evidently do
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[20:13:42] <DeadYak> I don't see the need for separate vim vs gvim executables, though I do see it being reasonable to have the GTK frontend be an optional plugin
[20:14:01] <helf> hey Kokito
[20:14:06] <DeadYak> but personally I find it more confusing to have two separate executables that are nearly identical and having to remember which is which
[20:14:28] <duaneb> DeadYak, I don't want them to be context sensitive; I want the app, if it's primary use is a gui, to be differentiable by the gui (e.g. tracker) as an application.
[20:14:38] <DeadYak> and that's where we disagree.
[20:15:09] <duaneb> DeadYak, would you want all the apps in /bin?
[20:15:12] <duaneb> no matter the function?
[20:15:21] <DeadYak> if I want vim, I want the computer to figure out which version of it to launch, I don't want to have to remember "I'm in a terminal window, I need to run vim, if I'm in the GUI then I need to click gvim"
[20:15:46] <DeadYak> duaneb: imo I should never have to go looking in /bin myself in the first place
[20:15:53] <DeadYak> that's imo symptomatic of a bigger proble m
[20:15:54] <DeadYak> problem*
[20:15:59] <pyCube> right
[20:16:18] <duaneb> DeadYak, that's all I'm arguing for
[20:16:26] <DeadYak> i.e. most BeOS apps will register what mimetypes they can handle
[20:16:31] <duaneb> I just want to physically separate the gui and the command line apps
[20:16:34] <DeadYak> so open with can automagically give me a good list.
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[20:16:38] <DeadYak> I don't care where they are on the disk.
[20:16:41] <DeadYak> and I shouldn't have to.
[20:16:53] <duaneb> DeadYak, but then it's hiding the system from you
[20:16:53] <DeadYak> and I'm saying the on-disk organization is irrelevant to me.
[20:16:57] <duaneb> It shouldn't have to.
[20:17:03] <DeadYak> and that's exactly what it's supposed to do
[20:17:10] <DeadYak> I shouldn't have to care about the internal mechanics of how everything works.
[20:17:13] <DeadYak> that's precisely Linux's problem
[20:17:22] <DeadYak> I just want to edit my doc
[20:17:30] <duaneb> DeadYak, you don't have to care
[20:17:34] <DeadYak> I could care less if it's loading /boot/apps/somedirhere/some app and then rtld's loading such and such lib to support that app
[20:17:43] <DeadYak> by your argument I supposedly do
[20:17:49] <duaneb> DeadYak, no, I'm not
[20:17:54] <DeadYak> then what's the point?
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[20:19:45] <DeadYak> hi aroman
[20:19:47] <aroman> hello
[20:19:48] <duaneb> I'm saying that because the gui application is, in fact, a gui application, then it should be differentiated from a console app. Take mac os x.
[20:19:55] <aroman> hey DeadYak
[20:19:57] <helf> hey aroman
[20:20:40] <duaneb> applications are in .app bundles, and the moment they appear on the filesystem, the app server's little slaves go and find out everything they can about it
[20:20:55] <duaneb> then you can double click on a file and it will open this new application
[20:21:04] <DeadYak> but app bundles are it hiding the system from you again
[20:21:17] <DeadYak> which you just argued against
[20:21:20] <duaneb> DeadYak, no they aren't
[20:21:37] <duaneb> they are bundles, therefore the user knows that they are applications
[20:21:58] <DeadYak> but the bundle is in fact a bunch of subdirs masquerading as an executable
[20:22:01] <DeadYak> therefore hiding
[20:22:10] <pyCube> app buyndles are certainly convenient in the shortterm, especially for hte user.. but they scare me
[20:22:18] <duaneb> pyCube, scare? how?
[20:22:40] <duaneb> DeadYak, it all comes back to the /bin problem.
[20:22:47] <DeadYak> make up your mind
[20:22:55] <pyCube> duaneb: they just "feel" wring
[20:22:58] <pyCube> wrong
[20:23:16] <duaneb> pyCube, it's only because you know the bundles are there
[20:23:27] <pyCube> no
[20:23:41] <pyCube> its because i know its a shortcut patch to a deeper problem
[20:23:48] <duaneb> DeadYak, I mean 'hiding' in the sense that they APPEAR to be different when they actually aren't; in reality, they're all naked executables in /bin
[20:23:55] <duaneb> pyCube, what's the deeper problem?
[20:24:20] <duaneb> DeadYak, linux could have had an /apps directory and everything would have been better.
[20:24:41] <pyCube> you are free to make an /apps folder and make all the symlinks you want
[20:24:58] <duaneb> pyCube, that's not the point; I shouldn't have to.
[20:25:11] <pyCube> you should HAVE to wipe your ass..yet you do
[20:25:14] <pyCube> ..i assume
[20:25:38] <duaneb> pyCube, it's stupid to represent two different paradigms the same way.
[20:25:48] <duaneb> ^^^^^^^^^thesis^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6
[20:26:42] <pyCube> why?
[20:27:05] <Kokito> hi helf
[20:27:14] <duaneb> pyCube, why would you? :P
[20:27:48] <duaneb> they have two different purposes, you use them different ways, they should be represented differently so the user doesn't have to differentiate manually
[20:28:34] <pyCube> unless the user wants to access 2 different things in a unified manner
[20:28:42] <DeadYak> that's my point, why does the user have to differentiate at all?
[20:28:43] *** duaneb is now known as LordJesus
[20:28:46] <DeadYak> why doesn't the system do it for him?
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[20:30:27] <LordJesus> DeadYak, why wouldn't you want to?
[20:30:39] <DeadYak> why do I have to care?
[20:30:43] <LordJesus> there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to group them together
[20:30:51] <LordJesus> DeadYak, you shouldn't have to, I agree
[20:30:55] <DeadYak> and there's absolutely no reason I should have to worry about what it is.
[20:30:56] <DeadYak> or where it is.
[20:31:05] <DeadYak> that right there is the fundamental problem.
[20:31:10] <LordJesus> DeadYak, but I guarantee that you will have to unless you separate the two.
[20:31:18] <DeadYak> except I don't.
[20:31:18] <LordJesus> look at linux's fucked up system :P
[20:31:49] <DeadYak> except that's not an issue of the directory organization so much as a lack of a smarter way of telling the system what you want to do
[20:31:54] <pyCube> remember: "fucked up" and "i dont like it" are 2 different notions
[20:32:07] <DeadYak> I don't want to have to browse to some folder and launch an app, I want something more task-oriented
[20:32:14] <LordJesus> pyCube, well, chances are if it's fucked up I don't like it :P
[20:32:23] <LordJesus> DeadYak, you don't have to
[20:32:24] <DeadYak> but the converse isn't necessarily true.
[20:32:33] <LordJesus> look at macosx's dock
[20:32:33] <DeadYak> but the whole crux of your argument rests on me having to
[20:32:35] <DeadYak> if I don't have to
[20:32:40] <DeadYak> then /bin is 100% irrelevant
[20:32:52] <DeadYak> as is your entire argument in that case.
[20:33:05] <LordJesus> DeadYak, no it's not; let's say, for some random reason, the mime isn't set for an application
[20:33:13] <LordJesus> (which happens a LOT on linux)
[20:33:14] <DeadYak> otherwise, why am I in /bin looking for the app in the first place?
[20:33:21] <LordJesus> or let's say you want to open something from the command line
[20:33:31] <LordJesus> (because you need that too)
[20:33:39] <DeadYak> then I should be able to do something like what Haiku lets you do
[20:33:40] <DeadYak> open filename
[20:33:45] <DeadYak> and the sys figures out what app to open it with
[20:33:52] <LordJesus> DeadYak, ok
[20:33:53] <DeadYak> or if it can't, gives me a list of possibilities that might be suitable.
[20:33:56] <LordJesus> you agree with me :P
[20:34:03] <DeadYak> in no circumstance should I manually have to browse to /bin
[20:34:12] <DeadYak> and consequently I don't give a rat's ass what apps are in that dir.
[20:34:18] <LordJesus> It's just the method of implementing how the system does it that we disagree about
[20:34:58] <LordJesus> Personally, I think that (for example) the .app bundles provide an easy way for the 'system' to flag apps
[20:35:03] <DeadYak> well, on BeOS for instance, you can easily find GUI apps by looking for the app signature attr.
[20:35:14] <LordJesus> DeadYak, excellent
[20:35:30] <DeadYak> which incidentally is actually how the OS does it when you ask to open a doc
[20:35:43] <DeadYak> look up registered app in mime db, query disk for location of app corresponding to that signature.
[20:35:49] <LordJesus> DeadYak, then there you go. The executables ARE differentiated :P
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[20:36:18] <DeadYak> except there's nothing preventing an app from presenting a command line interface as well
[20:36:20] <LordJesus> DeadYak, I don't care about the location; the location is just a method with which I might differentiate.
[20:36:24] <DeadYak> see mmu_man's Links port for Haiku for instance.
[20:36:30] <LordJesus> DeadYak, that's fine
[20:36:41] <DeadYak> run it from Terminal and it will run in CLI mode, double click it from Tracker and it presents a graphical version
[20:36:43] <LordJesus> just so long as there is the differentiation
[20:38:03] <pyCube> there is.. typing in term to launch vs clicking with mouse to launch
[20:38:15] <pyCube> clear, simple, everybody understands
[20:38:25] <pyCube> no need for 2 apps
[20:38:30] <LordJesus> pyCube, no, that's different
[20:38:59] <LordJesus> there's a reason Tracker doesn't have a command line interface
[20:39:11] <LordJesus> (like midnight commander)
[20:39:35] <pyCube> thats because its f'ing beos
[20:39:58] <pyCube> tracker is already running by the time you get a term
[20:40:01] <LordJesus> pyCube, and beos is smart :)
[20:42:59] <DeadYak> one point is, on BeOS the GUI isn't optional
[20:43:05] <DeadYak> on most *nix it is.
[20:43:44] <DeadYak> but meh
[20:43:45] <DeadYak> back to work
[20:43:50] <helf> have fun
[20:44:22] <LordJesus> pyCube, anyway, what's wrong with .apps?
[20:45:37] <pyCube> the double 'p'.. i HATE 2 consecutive consonants
[20:45:45] <stpere> hehe
[20:46:02] <LordJesus> heh
[20:50:44] <LordJesus> damn foreign languages
[20:50:49] <LordJesus> can't we all just speak esperanto?
[20:51:06] <pyCube> because esperanto is ridiculous
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[20:51:58] <helf> esperanto is retarded. :P
[20:52:27] <helf> if nothing else, I'm not going to speak a language named "esperanto"
[20:52:48] 
[20:52:58] <DeadYak> bga: hahaha
[20:53:03] <LordJesus> yea, I heard that esperanto is pretty cold
[21:02:36] <LordJesus> vmware is *such* a pain in the but.
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[21:04:37] <aljen> hey =)
[21:05:04] <LordJesus> aljen, sorry, what did I do? :'(
[21:05:18] <aljen> LordJesus: hm ?
[21:05:23] <LordJesus> oh
[21:05:24] <LordJesus> heh
[21:05:41] <LordJesus> I critisized vmware, then I thought you said 'hey =)' in protest :P
[21:06:13] <aljen> hehe :)
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[21:24:39] <plfiorini> hi aljen!
[21:24:58] <plfiorini> undefined reference to BView::Alignment(void)
[21:25:10] <DeadYak> in what?
[21:25:11] <JonathanThompson> HOLY CRAP!  They took long enough, but the iFund people want to talk in more detail with me!
[21:25:13] <plfiorini> is it possible that there's no BView::Alignment?
[21:25:21] <DeadYak> plfiorini: that was removed/renamed a while ago
[21:25:40] <plfiorini> DeadYak: and what should be used instead?
[21:25:41] <DeadYak> plfiorini: it had to do with the new layout kit, but its name conflicted with the Alignment() functions in BTextView
[21:25:53] <DeadYak> plfiorini: nothing, just need a recompile
[21:25:59] <DeadYak> plfiorini: what app is saying this?
[21:26:07] <plfiorini> DeadYak: im_client from IM Kit
[21:26:40] <DeadYak> plfiorini: sounds like it was compiled against the headers before that change then
[21:26:43] <DeadYak> plfiorini: just needs a rebuild, nothing more
[21:26:57] <plfiorini> DeadYak: it says that buiulding it on Haiku
[21:26:58] <DeadYak> blink
[21:27:02] <DeadYak> do you have an old set of headers or something? it was renamed to LayoutAlignment
[21:27:04] <DeadYak> iirc
[21:27:16] <DeadYak> I don't have access to my source tree right now or I'd check for sure
[21:27:57] <DeadYak> the only thing using that should be the layout engines though, which afaik IM Kit isn't currently using
[21:28:28] <plfiorini> it's Apr 18 Senryu and there's no LayoutAlignment, i try to remove Alignment from headers
[21:28:53] <plfiorini> DeadYak: yes imkit doesn't use layouts
[21:29:20] <plfiorini> it still needs to run on zeta and bone, unfortunately
[21:29:37] <DeadYak> then Senryu is seemingly adding old headers to the image
[21:29:39] <DeadYak> that was changed like a month ago
[21:29:47] <plfiorini> ok thanks
[21:30:00] <plfiorini> i will update haiku from itself by sources
[21:30:23] <plfiorini> yes now it builds
[21:30:41] <DeadYak> :)
[21:32:28] <JonathanThompson> And this is why it is way too soon to have a Haiku distro (amongst others).
[21:32:38] <stpere> stippi: hi
[21:32:42] <stpere> can I PM you?
[21:32:55] * LordJesus has decided to fork haiku
[21:33:06] <helf> not already
[21:33:16] <LordJesus> I really don't like the color yellow; this distro will be green oriented
[21:33:18] <JonathanThompson> Yeah, LordJesus?  Well, fork() you, too! :P
[21:33:24] <LordJesus> hahaha
[21:33:24] <DeadYak> stpere: I don't think he's around
[21:33:26] <helf> quick ,lets kill him before he can do it!
[21:33:27] <stpere> ok
[21:33:32] <LordJesus> that made me laugh out loud :P
[21:33:37] <JonathanThompson> Let's crucify him!
[21:33:39] <stpere> someone know who is GSoC admin for Haiku?
[21:33:42] *** LordJesus is now known as duaneb
[21:33:45] <JonathanThompson> Bilateral fork()...
[21:33:51] <stpere> Ryan..?<
[21:33:55] <duaneb> ya?
[21:33:56] <duaneb> oh
[21:34:01] <duaneb> another ryan
[21:34:07] <DeadYak> admin? stippi and bga
[21:34:11] <stpere> hehe, nice to meet you ryan
[21:34:22] <JonathanThompson> We'll have to kill off all other Ryan's but one, so there's no confusion ;)
[21:34:31] <JonathanThompson> Now, the problem is deciding which one to keep...
[21:34:46] * JonathanThompson yells at all the Ryan's, "Stop moving around so fast!"
[21:34:58] <stpere> lol
[21:35:17] <stpere> I killed 31 weird anymals
[21:35:20] <stpere> animals
[21:35:28] <stpere> they were running around ..
[21:35:28] <JonathanThompson> How many normal animals did you kill?
[21:35:36] <stpere> yelling "notme"
[21:35:42] <stpere> weird
[21:36:15] <stpere> some were even retailiating
[21:36:38] <JonathanThompson> They were growing new tails after the original ones were shot off?  Impressive!
[21:37:15] <stpere> anyone want to participate to my WalterCon in Quebec? :)
[21:37:29] <JonathanThompson> Don't you mean North Montana? :)
[21:37:32] <stpere> I have.. hmm.. 1 subscription
[21:37:48] <stpere> hehe, North Montana hehehe
[21:38:02] <stpere> Forillon National Park is a beauty
[21:38:07] <JonathanThompson> At least if Canada would acknowledge the practical reality, an interstate highway in Alaska would make sense :)
[21:38:53] * JonathanThompson wonders how they'd number things if that happened, because the interstates have a numbering scheme that assumes a certain land border...
[21:39:10] <JonathanThompson> I guess that'd make the east/west out of alaska somewhere around I-200....
[21:39:39] <stpere> huh, there is a numbering scheme in road in your country?
[21:39:44] <JonathanThompson> Which means business loops and such would get really weird for naming...
[21:39:49] <stpere> here, it looks pretty random to me
[21:39:51] <JonathanThompson> For state and US highways, yes.
[21:40:00] <stpere> only exits follow some system
[21:40:21] <JonathanThompson> If you have an approximate clue as to where you need to be, you can use east/west and north/south highway numbers to get there, or at least within atomic bomb distances, without a map.
[21:40:31] <stpere> must say that we have _ONE_ interstate highway :)
[21:41:03] <stpere> from one end to the other
[21:41:07] <stpere> a pretty fun ride :)
[21:41:11] <JonathanThompson> Where you might like map information is in many of the less populated states, you may have long distances without gas stations.
[21:41:32] <JonathanThompson> And, if you run out of gas, not even the sheep will save you!
[21:41:38] <stpere> hehe
[21:41:45] * JonathanThompson wishes DaaT was here...
[21:41:53] <JonathanThompson> Assuming there's even sheep or cattle...
[21:42:03] <JonathanThompson> The US has some real desert areas, that's for sure.
[21:42:21] <stpere> I went to oregon last year
[21:42:23] <stpere> for 3 months
[21:42:32] <stpere> saw a few very creepy farms
[21:42:45] <JonathanThompson> Where the men are men (like DaaT) and the sheep run scared?
[21:42:49] <stpere> it wouldn't have surprised me to see some mutants
[21:43:13] <stpere> I for one would have never asked for help there
[21:43:30] <stpere> first thing you know you have a bullet in your ass
[21:43:45] <stpere> get off my property you god damn punk!
[21:44:13] <stpere> ok, enough paranoid ranting :)
[21:45:42] <CIA-52> bga * r25162 /haiku/trunk/src/ (kits/mail/MailSettings.cpp system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp):
[21:45:42] <CIA-52> FS gurus, please review.
[21:45:42] <CIA-52>  bail out on a locked vnode.
[21:45:47] <stpere> I must say than everyone I met was friendly tho
[21:45:50] <stpere> so..
[21:45:57] <stpere> dunno why I had that impression
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[21:50:02] <duaneb> jesus christ imap is slow :|
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[21:59:50] <stargater> hi
[22:00:19] <stpere> hi stargater
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[22:00:34] <stargater> hi stpere
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[22:08:18] <duaneb> why is vmware slower than kvm?
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[22:13:39] <stpere> is kvm using hardware acceleration?
[22:13:58] <duaneb> yea
[22:14:14] <duaneb> ...but so does vmware
[22:14:22] <stpere> I think vmware is strictly software based, but I might be wrong
[22:14:32] <stpere> hmm
[22:14:35] <duaneb> no, I had to compile a bunch of hardware modules
[22:14:41] <stpere> oh ok
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[22:16:52] <DeadYak> vmware uses a limited degree of kernel support, not to the same extent that kvm does though
[22:16:55] <DeadYak> a lot more is done in software in vmware
[22:19:55] <duaneb> ahh
[22:20:06] <duaneb> oh, right, kvm is heavily integrated with the kernel...
[22:20:25] <duaneb> if only it had a nice interface and integration with the guest systems...
[22:20:53] <DeadYak> indeed, hence kvm's name :)
[22:21:52] <duaneb> DeadYak, for how long have you been using BeOS?
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[22:22:33] <DeadYak> duaneb: march 2k
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[22:22:44] <DeadYak> hi Stefano
[22:22:48] <Technix> blarg
[22:22:52] <duaneb> DeadYak, heh
[22:22:53] <JBurton> hi all
[22:22:57] <Technix> hey JBurton
[22:23:18] <DeadYak> anyways, I'll be back a little later, heading home
[22:23:24] *** DeadYak has quit IRC
[22:24:01] <JBurton> hey Technix
[22:24:24] <Technix> how goes?
[22:25:31] <JBurton> fine, although internet connection is back today after a week
[22:25:57] <Technix> ouch, a week without internets?
[22:26:05] * Technix tries to imagine.... nope.
[22:27:04] <JBurton> yeah
[22:29:49] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25163 /haiku/trunk/headers/compatibility/bsd/libutil.h: Was using __{BEGIN,END}_DECLS without including <sys/cdefs.h>.
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[22:35:33] <stpere> where can I get a list of all optional packages I can add to the image?
[22:37:18] <stpere> oh
[22:37:36] <stpere> haiku_add_all_optional_packages :)
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[22:41:15] <baskus> I installed haiku on a 7ish year old laptop. It boots up fine and all but when the terminal and deskbar is started up it gets _really_ slow. I managed to start top, took some minutes, and there "kernel_team fx intr handler" was taking all the cpu power.
[22:41:42] <baskus> Any known bugs that could cause that?
[22:42:33] <geist> sounds like something is firing interrupts like crazy
[22:42:38] <geist> probably a driver problem with whatever that is
[22:43:08] <geist> laptops are frequently a pain with their esoteric hardware
[22:43:11] <geist> especially older ones
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[22:44:05] <baskus> ok, thanks
[22:44:16] <geist> should file a bug
[22:44:17] <stippi> back
[22:44:25] <baskus> ye
[22:45:17] <stippi> stpere: there is actually a jam variable to simply install all optional packages. :-)
[22:45:28] <stippi> but look into build/jam/OptionalPackages
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[22:46:31] <stpere> thx, exactly what I need! :)
[22:46:59] <mmu_man> it goes to UserBuildConfig
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[22:50:43] <luroh> baskus: what build are you running on the old laptop?
[22:51:13] <baskus> trunk from today
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[22:52:06] <luroh> right, nevermind then :) (there was a bug fixed yesterday that i thought could be related)
[22:52:27] <baskus> ok
[22:52:34] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25164 /haiku/trunk/data/system/boot/Bootscript:
[22:52:34] <CIA-52> * Adjusted launch() to accept parameters for the launched program.
[22:52:34] <CIA-52> * Removed launch_param_1().
[22:53:42] <mmu_man> hmmmm
[22:53:50] <mmu_man> that's getting *really* interesting
[22:53:51] <mmu_man> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/shared-filemetadata-spec
[22:54:11] <mmu_man> that's for alternative file-backed meta-data storage
[22:54:26] <mmu_man> and they *finally* thought it would be a good idea to have types :)
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[23:06:58] <stpere_haiku> vision is cool
[23:09:20] <DaaT> yes it is
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[23:17:47] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25165 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/Inode.h:
[23:17:47] <CIA-52> * Unbroke Inode::IsDirectory() again, according to Axel's suggestion.
[23:17:47] <CIA-52> * Simplified Inode::IsContainer().
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[23:29:20] <mmadia> hi all
[23:30:41] <baskus> hello
[23:30:53] <Kokito> hey mmadia
[23:31:04] <mmadia> new to #haiku , baskus ?
[23:31:06] <mmadia> hi Kokito
[23:31:19] <Kokito> mmadia, the latest experimental build of FF works nicely in Haiku
[23:31:25] <baskus> somewhat
[23:31:38] <Kokito> welcome baskus
[23:31:47] <baskus> ty :)
[23:32:13] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25166 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/terminal/Shell.cpp:
[23:32:13] <CIA-52> NULL terminate the default argument vector. It is passed to execve().
[23:32:13] <CIA-52> Fixes #2160.
[23:32:14] <ddew|bofh> hiya
[23:32:40] <mmadia> nice : )   I'm sort of hesistant to request review, approval, and commits on the patches ...  as there may be a chance (ableit slight) of problems on R5.
[23:33:31] <mmadia> a lot of people have been downloading them, just haven't been giving much feedback : /
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[23:33:50] <Kokito> mmadia, R5 (or Zeta for that matter) are of no concern to me any these days :)
[23:34:04] <Kokito> mmadia: no news, good news :)
[23:34:04] * ddew|bofh loves watching Hitchens debate people
[23:34:06] <mmadia> understandable Kokito
[23:34:15] <ddew|bofh> he may be a drunk, but damn he's a great orator
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[23:40:00] <pyCube> is he? to me he comes off as an arrogant fuckwad  who occasionally says something funny about religion
[23:40:58] <ddew|bofh> i've seen a couple of moderated debates and while he may be hard to stomach for some he's far from being a fuckwad
[23:41:24] <pyCube> depends on your concept of fuckwad
[23:42:06] <CIA-52> bonefish * r25167 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/team.cpp:
[23:42:06] <CIA-52> Moved creation of the kernel tracing entry for exec_team() to a later
[23:42:06] <CIA-52> point where the argument vector has already been copied to the kernel.
[23:42:06] <CIA-52> Before it was crashing when the syscall provided a bad address.
[23:42:09] <pyCube> i dont mean to imply i have a difficult time stomaching him.. i enjoy watching him debate as well
[23:42:45] <ddew|bofh> as for the "fun" argument, if he'd been a comedian i could understand your position but he's not so i'm not sure how valid the argument is
[23:42:46] <pyCube> but he's hardly a great orator in the sense of bringing people onboard as far as his opinions go..
[23:43:42] <ddew|bofh> i'd say he's pretty good at making a case for his beliefs, it's certainly not for everyone but calling it a failure is a little over the top
[23:43:51] <pyCube> um... i meant that intellectually he is vaguely interesting.. but sometimes he comes up with a really great, rudely direct statement about religion
[23:44:00] <pyCube> call it what you want, but its funny as hell to me
[23:44:08] <DeadYak> pradon my ignorance, but who is Hitchens?
[23:44:24] <pyCube> i am not calling him a failure.. i am calling him put off-ish
[23:44:37] <pyCube> not to me..
[23:44:49] <pyCube> but in response to "great orator"
[23:44:54] <ddew|bofh> depends on which you're talking about, Cristopher Hitchens is an atheist writer and his brother, Peter, is a religious writer
[23:45:03] <DeadYak> ah
[23:45:06] <DeadYak> never heard of him
[23:45:16] <pyCube> great orator, in my mind, is one who speaks and EVERYBODY feels compelled to believe
[23:45:22] <ddew|bofh> i'd say that winning debates makes someone a great orator
[23:45:36] <pyCube> i wouldnt.. but maybe thats just me
[23:46:15] <ddew|bofh> there isn't one single person who's ever made a speech and made _everyone_ believe in him.
[23:46:22] <pyCube> no shit
[23:46:41] <ddew|bofh> so ortor is just a make believe word without application?
[23:46:45] <ddew|bofh> *orator
[23:47:30] <pyCube> what?
[23:47:38] <pyCube> making good points != oration
[23:47:54] <pyCube> out smarting your debate opponent != oration
[23:48:03] <stpere> a debate between both Hitchens must be interesting to watch :)
[23:48:04] <ddew|bofh> delivering a good speech is however
[23:48:22] <ddew|bofh> it was very interesting, a little unfair on Peter but interesting nevertheless
[23:48:26] <pyCube> right.. and i dont htink thats c hitchens
[23:48:44] <pyCube> c hitchems is a good speaker if you already agree with him
[23:49:15] <pyCube> he doesnt compel others to WANT to agree with him
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[23:49:20] <ddew|bofh> he's good at making points and countering opposition
[23:49:29] <pyCube> depends
[23:49:35] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: sure but that's irrelevant as to the english definition of oration
[23:49:45] <DeadYak> = skill and power as a public speaker
[23:49:50] <DeadYak> nothing to do with debate skills whatsoever.
[23:50:09] <ddew|bofh> skill and power as a public speaker i would say is vital to a public debate
[23:50:14] <DeadYak> if anything it just implies someone is charismatic
[23:50:15] <DeadYak> nothing more
[23:51:06] <DeadYak> and that's not really true at all
[23:51:23] <DeadYak> I can totally win an argument and still come across as a complete jackass that no one wants to agree with unless they already do so
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[23:51:33] <DeadYak> a good orator is someone who can bring people to their point of view
[23:51:39] <pyCube> anyway.. i agree with most of his views on religion.. disagree with most of his views on politics... and get the impression (from watching his 'oration') that he is a total dick
[23:51:59] <DeadYak> regardless of whether said view is true or not
[23:52:18] <ddew|bofh> he made some pretty compelling arguments on the iraq war
[23:52:27] <pyCube> right.. oration is speaking in a way that makes people want to listen, even when they know they disagree
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[23:54:21] <ddew|bofh> i'm not a native english speaker so i may very well have misinterpreted the word orator and jumped to conclusions
[23:54:38] <DeadYak> hence us clarifying its meaning :)
[23:54:38] <ddew|bofh> in swedish the word means nothing more than "a public speaker"
[23:54:53] <mmu_man> as long as it's not under the belt...
[23:55:02] <DeadYak> mmu_man: pardon?
[23:55:20] <mmu_man> (about misinterpretation)
[23:55:33] <DeadYak> what do you mean by "under the belt"?
[23:55:59] <mmu_man> in french we say that for something that might be s*x related
[23:56:03] <DeadYak> oh :P
[23:56:08] <mmu_man> ie. "under the belt"
[23:56:19] <mmu_man> hmm bellow migth be more correct
[23:56:28] <mmu_man> below
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[23:56:33] <DeadYak> either works, I was just confused as to what you meant in context here :)
[23:56:42] <ddew|bofh> here i was thinking "low blow" :)
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[23:59:07] <vbmithr> haha
[23:59:12] <vbmithr> perhaps it's only a french expression

   April 25, 2008  
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