Switch to DuckDuckGo Search
   April 21, 2008  
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | >

Toggle Join/Part | bottom
[00:00:27] <Wiss> O_O  I have no errors, and Q say my image is working, but I don't see anything

[00:01:34] *** HeTo has quit IRC

[00:02:55] <Wiss> Thanks for your help andreasf :)  I'll continue to search in an hour, I have to leave now

[00:03:05] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku

[00:03:19] <andreasf> :-) bye

[00:04:18] <mmu_man> Wiss http://www.haiku-os.org/downloads

[00:11:18] *** slaad has joined #haiku

[00:13:53] *** urnenfeld has left #haiku

[00:14:20] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku

[00:16:46] *** Euver has quit IRC

[00:16:56] *** nibble has quit IRC

[00:18:55] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC

[00:19:11] *** _Vampyre is now known as Vampyre

[00:19:13] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC

[00:19:30] *** stargater has quit IRC

[00:19:39] *** urnenfeld has left #haiku

[00:24:30] *** xcasex has quit IRC

[00:25:35] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku

[00:29:34] *** Poisson_Pilote has quit IRC

[00:40:02] *** vbmithr has quit IRC

[01:05:47] *** rdmr has quit IRC

[01:06:23] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC

[01:06:48] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC

[01:07:18] *** TuneTracker has joined #Haiku

[01:13:10] *** aljen has quit IRC

[01:17:44] *** salad has joined #haiku

[01:17:45] *** slaad has quit IRC

[01:19:29] *** petterhj has quit IRC

[01:19:35] *** andreasf has quit IRC

[01:32:39] *** salad has quit IRC

[01:32:55] *** slaad has joined #haiku

[01:33:19] *** oco has quit IRC

[01:35:13] *** DHowett has joined #haiku

[01:36:23] *** Zevs has joined #haiku

[01:59:14] *** {V} is now known as {V}zzz

[01:59:17] *** duaneb has quit IRC

[02:02:16] *** mmu_man has quit IRC

[02:03:20] *** Stargater has joined #haiku

[02:03:27] <Stargater> re

[02:09:58] *** Stargater has quit IRC

[02:10:15] *** slaad has quit IRC

[02:27:24] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku

[02:29:58] *** DHowett has left #haiku

[02:31:20] *** Zevs has quit IRC

[02:31:29] *** BlankBruno has joined #haiku

[02:34:19] *** BlankBruno has left #haiku

[02:35:09] *** DaaT has quit IRC

[02:36:05] *** urnenfeld has left #haiku

[02:39:19] *** cps1966 has left #haiku

[02:50:54] *** mmadia has quit IRC

[02:59:10] *** dchis has quit IRC

[03:00:52] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku

[03:09:44] *** Wiss has left #haiku

[03:18:34] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku

[03:33:49] *** helf_ has joined #haiku

[03:33:50] *** helf_ has left #haiku

[03:33:54] *** helf_ has joined #haiku

[03:33:56] <helf_> woops

[03:33:58] <helf_> hola :)

[03:34:26] * JonathanThompson slaps helf_

[03:35:02] *** NeoOokami has quit IRC

[03:35:05] <helf_> :(

[03:35:24] <helf_> looks like it'll cost me 2800usd just to get a turbo diesel engine for my rabbit... :P

[03:36:24] <JonathanThompson> helf_ you're already whining about the cost of fuel *now* and now you're upset it'll cost you more to get an engine to help you whine that much more about the cost of fuel?

[03:36:42] <helf_> im not upset

[03:36:47] <helf_> i just found a place that sells them

[03:36:51] <helf_> im happy its less than 3k :P

[03:37:15] <JonathanThompson> And what sort of mileage can you expect with this "upgrade" ? :)

[03:37:37] <helf_> 30-40mpg

[03:37:44] <JonathanThompson> What do you get now?

[03:37:47] <helf_> 40-50 out of the nonturbo

[03:38:12] <helf_> and if i can ever get the 5spd installed, it'll be ~60 with the nonturbo on the highway nad high 50s with a turbo

[03:38:26] <JonathanThompson> Ask yourself, seriously: as a young teenage male who has already rolled a Mazda RX-7, can you really afford the hit to your insurance costs in addition to the fuel costs by doing that?

[03:38:35] <helf_> ill sacrifice a few mpg for more power. the normally aspirated engine is slooooooooooooow :)

[03:38:55] <helf_> JonathanThompson: do you really think ill tell my insurance people i have a turbo engine?

[03:38:58] <helf_> ;)

[03:39:11] <helf_> evne if i did, its a vw diesel rabbit. my insurance wont be more than ~65/m

[03:39:15] <JonathanThompson> If it ever gets into an insurance claim, do you think they won't notice? ;)

[03:39:24] <helf_> yes :)

[03:39:27] <helf_> you dont know my agent ;)

[03:39:53] <JonathanThompson> "It has 4 wheels, an engine, 4 doors, says VW Rabbit, ok!"

[03:40:04] <helf_> yeah, basically :P

[03:40:15] <helf_> anyways

[03:40:39] <helf_> its like 400usd difference between a turbo and a nonturbo... I'll probably not do turbo though. NA engines last longer.

[03:41:26] <JonathanThompson> True.

[03:41:44] <JonathanThompson> Turbos require that you always keep up on such minor things as oil lest they self-destruct.

[03:41:59] <helf_> im anal about maintenance :P

[03:42:15] <JonathanThompson> Not to mention, well, I guess it's a diesel, so there's diesel, or there's...deisel...

[03:42:16] <helf_> I can't wait to get a new engine :)

[03:42:27] <helf_> bio

[03:42:47] <helf_> which is better on the engine than petrol diesel

[03:42:59] * JonathanThompson awaits hearing of helf_ waiting outside of the Golden Arches to get used french fry oil for fuel

[03:43:29] <helf_> which I will totally do if theirs any left

[03:43:48] <helf_> our blasted city decided to get on the WVO bandwagon for its fleet vehicles ;(

[03:43:54] <JonathanThompson> Just make darn sure it has been properly filtered ;)

[03:44:00] <helf_> :P

[03:44:03] <helf_> yeah

[03:44:17] * JonathanThompson imagines a french fry clogging up helf_'s engine

[03:44:39] <helf_> I'll have to set up dual tanks

[03:44:48] <JonathanThompson> Though if you've got a fuel filter setup correctly, it'd never get that far.

[03:45:04] <JonathanThompson> (At least not a whole french fry)

[03:45:06] <helf_> a small tank for starting and then switching to the wvo tank

[03:45:22] <helf_> i'd definitely filter it well before hand

[03:45:26] <helf_> and probably run dual fuel filters

[03:45:46] <JonathanThompson> And have the dual fuel filters duel the fuel in the filters :)

[03:46:00] <helf_> heh

[03:49:19] <Penix> heh. I've heard so many people complain about bio diesel. a lot of 'em freak out when the junk built up in their fuel lines is cleaned out and forced into the filters

[03:49:36] <JonathanThompson> Isn't that what filters are supposed to do???

[03:49:54] <helf_> those people are morons :P

[03:50:02] <Penix> yes, a lot of them are :)

[03:50:10] <helf_> biodiesel is a solvent so it cleans the crap out of the engine which is a GOOD thing :)

[03:50:13] <Penix> yeah

[03:50:14] * JonathanThompson is hopelessly stuck as a victim of having understanding of how things are supposed to work in most cases

[03:50:18] <helf_> its also like 99% more lubricating than petrol diesel

[03:50:57] * JonathanThompson imitates the song of a commercial, "Easy, greasy, biofuel!"

[03:51:06] * helf_ contemplates spending the money to ship his car to this place, get them to install an entirely new engine and some otehr parts and ship the car back..

[03:51:18] <helf_> ~4.5k to do that probably

[03:51:21] <helf_> hmm

[03:51:24] * helf_ enquires

[03:51:26] <helf_> inquires?

[03:51:40] * JonathanThompson contemplates shipping helf_ off to another place and having him fixed for the same amount of money

[03:52:11] <helf_> heh

[03:55:47] <JonathanThompson> Just be aware of this, helf_: if you burn previously used peanut oil, that may kill others on the road that are allergic to peanuts.

[03:56:56] <helf_> really?

[03:56:57] <helf_> sweet

[03:56:59] <helf_> :D

[03:57:14] * JonathanThompson smacks helf_ around with a giant peanut made of lead

[03:57:25] <helf_> "In other news, there has been a rash of deaths associated with peanut alergies. Authorities are at a loss as to the cause"

[03:57:28] <JonathanThompson> Do you have any allergies, helf_?

[03:57:31] <helf_> no

[03:57:45] <JonathanThompson> That's what I thought, based on your response...

[03:57:51] <helf_> heh

[03:57:58] <helf_> actually, id turn WVO into biodiesel

[03:58:05] <helf_> i wouldnt run straight grease

[03:58:09] <JonathanThompson> WVO?

[03:58:19] <helf_> its not good on the engine and not very eficient

[03:58:24] <helf_> waste vegetable oil

[03:58:56] <JonathanThompson> I wonder how much you'd get that had peanut oil mixed in.

[03:59:07] <helf_> no idea

[03:59:13] <helf_> probably not much

[03:59:20] <JonathanThompson> Oddly enough, I bet peanut oil would be the best, with the highest compression.

[03:59:35] <JonathanThompson> It has the highest smoke point of all the cooking oils, I know that.

[03:59:40] <helf_> my engine is like 22:1 or sometihng to that effect

[03:59:44] <helf_> really?

[03:59:49] <JonathanThompson> Yup.

[03:59:50] <helf_> cool :)

[04:00:07] <JonathanThompson> You can cook stuff the hottest in peanut oil compared to anything else before it starts smoking.

[04:00:19] <helf_> ah

[04:00:35] <JonathanThompson> It may only be a few degrees here and there, but that's still a difference that matters ;)

[04:00:42] <helf_> yeah :)

[04:00:53] <helf_> I'll have to call that place in a few days and find out about getting an engine

[04:01:02] <helf_> putting fuel in my van is destroying my wallet :P

[04:01:30] <JonathanThompson> You're a young male teen: you aren't supposed to have anything in your wallet except decaying unused condoms ;P

[04:01:42] <helf_> twit :P

[04:01:45] <helf_> I don't even have those

[04:02:03] <JonathanThompson> (I never did, either: didn't feel a need for animal balloons on short notice)

[04:02:56] <helf_> lol

[04:04:24] * JonathanThompson wonders what weird stuff he'll dream of in the next 24 hours, as it could get weirder than a small dog drawing 3 flowers on the church carpet

[04:04:41] <helf_> :|

[04:04:56] <JonathanThompson> Remember who is talking :D

[04:05:53] <JonathanThompson> Next thing I know, I'm dreaming that I'm the dog character from this morning's dream, drawing the flowers ;)

[04:06:30] * JonathanThompson has normal dreams, for a rather curious definition of "normal"

[04:06:46] <helf_> thats for sure :P

[04:07:09] <JonathanThompson> Could be really weird: I could dream I'm helf_ ;)

[04:07:22] * JonathanThompson imagines rolling an RX-7

[04:07:56] <helf_> har

[04:08:09] <JonathanThompson> Better to imagine me doing that compared to rolling a joint.

[04:08:20] <JonathanThompson> Nobody would want me to go into armed robbery ;)

[04:08:22] <geist> or rickrolling

[04:08:36] * JonathanThompson needs to verify what "rickrolling" means

[04:08:39] <geist> http://youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

[04:09:02] <helf_> im

[04:09:03] <helf_> so

[04:09:04] <helf_> sick

[04:09:05] <helf_> of

[04:09:05] <helf_> that

[04:09:06] <helf_> term

[04:09:09] <helf_> :)

[04:09:19] <JonathanThompson> rickrolling!

[04:09:21] <JonathanThompson> rickrolling!

[04:09:22] <JonathanThompson> rickrolling!

[04:09:22] <JonathanThompson> rickrolling!

[04:09:23] <JonathanThompson> rickrolling!

[04:09:25] <JonathanThompson> rickrolling!

[04:09:31] <JonathanThompson> (Just for you, helf_!)

[04:09:36] <geist> never gonna give you up

[04:09:49] <helf_> :(

[04:10:47] <JonathanThompson> Ah, he's pixelated!

[04:13:27] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC

[04:14:25] *** zlominus has quit IRC

[04:16:11] <DeadYak> who's pixelated?

[04:16:17] <JonathanThompson> Rick Roll.

[04:16:28] <DeadYak> on youtube? you're surprised? :P

[04:16:29] <helf_> dont say it again!

[04:16:55] <helf_> yak, i finally found a place that sells entire vw diesel engines :)

[04:17:02] <DeadYak> yay

[04:17:03] <DeadYak> how much?

[04:17:11] <JonathanThompson> More than he has currently ;)

[04:17:14] <helf_> ~2400

[04:17:15] <helf_> heh

[04:17:16] <helf_> yeah

[04:17:38] <helf_> probably cost me about 4 grand to redo it all

[04:17:39] * JonathanThompson notes at least geist wasn't mean enough to rickroll him

[04:17:57] <helf_> i might as well replace most everytihng if im getting an entire engine :)

[04:18:08] <JonathanThompson> Including the nut behind the wheel? :D

[04:18:13] <helf_> shaddup

[04:18:14] <helf_> :P

[04:18:20] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC

[04:18:21] <helf_> the rabbit is one car ill probably never get a ticket in or anything

[04:18:24] * JonathanThompson clams up with some tuna

[04:18:26] <helf_> it has trouble hitting 60 :P

[04:18:29] <JonathanThompson> HA HA HA HA HA!

[04:18:42] <JonathanThompson> Just because it may seem underpowered doesn't mean you won't get a ticket in it ;)

[04:18:48] <helf_> heh

[04:18:56] <helf_> ive only had one ticket

[04:19:04] <JonathanThompson> Remember: you're a young american male teen ;)

[04:19:13] <JonathanThompson> You're a natural ticket target, regardless of what you drive ;)

[04:19:17] <helf_> and it was because i screeched onto a road in a convertible with no tag.. so i was "suspicious"

[04:19:27] <helf_> and then he found out i had no insurance.,..

[04:19:45] * JonathanThompson predicts helf_ will get a ticket for going around a corner faster than a cop approves of

[04:20:00] <helf_> heh

[04:22:10] <helf_> i guess i could do the work myself...

[04:22:17] <helf_> but ill have to get an engine hoist and such..

[04:22:40] <JonathanThompson> helf_ for example, one night I was clearly too bored for my mental health, I checked out local traffic ordinances ....

[04:22:59] <JonathanThompson> It's illegal, it seems, to pull out of a driveway > 5 mph onto a street here.

[04:23:03] <JonathanThompson> (Technically)

[04:23:26] <JonathanThompson> I can *walk* faster than that.

[04:24:15] <helf_> wtf

[04:24:23] <helf_> i leave rubber out onto the road all the time :P

[04:24:43] * JonathanThompson notes helf_ better not visit Mercer Island ;)

[04:24:50] <JonathanThompson> At least not as a driver.

[04:25:02] <helf_> :)

[04:25:04] <JonathanThompson> Honestly, though, I bet most of the time I'm technically breaking that one.

[04:25:13] <JonathanThompson> (Then again, I bet the cops are, too)

[04:25:45] <helf_> i love dumb laws

[04:25:50] <helf_> made by bored people

[04:25:58] <JonathanThompson> There's a few fountains downtown Mercer Island, and it seems a common thing is for some idiot to put large amounts of some sort of dish soap in them to cause a mess.

[04:26:17] <JonathanThompson> One in front of the real estate office between me and the store got hit last night.

[04:26:31] <helf_> heh

[04:26:32] <helf_> soap. nice :D

[04:26:43] <JonathanThompson> A real PITA to clean up, ironically.

[04:27:28] <helf_> we have a fountain here...

[04:27:31] <JonathanThompson> My apartment building's fountain has been hit at least once since I moved here.

[04:27:33] <helf_> i wonder...

[04:27:36] <helf_> ;)

[04:27:40] <helf_> nah, i wouldnt do that

[04:27:45] <helf_> we have a real nice fountain

[04:28:11] <helf_> btw, i noticed today that the two compartments in the bakc of my van are mini coolers....

[04:28:14] <helf_> i never noticed...

[04:28:19] <JonathanThompson> Skateboarders around here have caused some ugly anti-skateboard hacks to be placed on buildings in self-defense.

[04:28:27] <helf_> they even have drain lines running to the bottom of the floorpan

[04:28:30] * JonathanThompson laughs at helf_

[04:28:43] <JonathanThompson> How long have you had that van?

[04:28:49] <helf_> 2 years

[04:28:58] * JonathanThompson laughs at helf_ again

[04:29:13] <helf_> well, they dont loo klike that. they just look like armrest compartments that you see a lot :P

[04:29:26] <helf_> i took one off to check sometihng and saw it was insulated...

[04:29:29] <JonathanThompson> But, with drainage lines to the floorboards :P

[04:29:29] <helf_> then noticed the drain line

[04:29:38] <helf_> its all hidden behind body panels! :P

[04:29:40] <helf_> shaddup

[04:29:46] * JonathanThompson will die first

[04:30:20] <helf_> :P

[04:30:21] <helf_> SO BE IT

[04:30:22] * JonathanThompson wonders what the total distance and altitude change is for the staircase in the nearby park

[04:30:42] <JonathanThompson> A great workout, or heart attack in the making if you're not up to it ;)

[04:30:59] <JonathanThompson> Especially trying to go as fast as you can.

[04:31:27] <helf_> heh

[04:31:27] <JonathanThompson> A block around here is 1/16th of a mile.... this is easily 2-3 blocks without counting the fact that they're switchbacked stairs ;)

[04:32:22] *** daste has quit IRC

[04:40:17] *** hUMUNGUz has joined #haiku

[04:41:02] <helf_> hUMUNGUz!

[04:41:11] <helf_> Where are you dogs of war?!

[04:48:23] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC

[04:49:35] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku

[04:49:52] *** mty has joined #haiku

[05:03:17] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku

[05:03:26] *** Tonik has quit IRC

[05:03:59] <geist> I hope ingo designs something good to replace that sem code

[05:04:13] <geist> I'm not really positive it's actually broken, hopefully it's not getting changed for the hell of it

[05:14:22] *** AlexForster has quit IRC

[05:15:39] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku

[05:23:14] <DeadYak> geist: from what I've seen he generally does pretty solid stuff

[05:23:40] <geist> probably. guess I was a little cheesed with the 'this is horribly broken' stuff

[05:23:47] <geist> but I gotta learn to let go.

[05:23:59] <geist> it's hard, but the best way I can do it is to just ignore and move on

[05:24:06] <DeadYak> well, might not necessarily be something you did, that code's changed a lot since NewOS no?

[05:24:37] <geist> well, it's been rewritten to match new coding styles

[05:24:41] <geist> but this far it seems to be identical

[05:24:48] <DeadYak> ah

[05:24:49] <geist> i'm just not convinced he's hit a problem with that code

[05:25:00] <geist> which I do admit is very suble and undocumented

[05:25:12] <geist> I remember counting sems to be much hairier than it seems

[05:25:18] <geist> there are a lot of subtle cases that take a while to figure out

[05:25:21] * DeadYak nods

[05:25:38] <geist> I've given up on using them for future projects. it's really a nasty abuse

[05:27:03] <DeadYak> I'm not sure I clearly understand how to implement sometehing like a multiple read/single write lock without them though

[05:27:38] <DeadYak> I'm assuming you'd have to do something along the lines of a benaphore?

[05:29:29] <MindChild> create a system wide "atom", or atomic operation. If your OS doesnt support such, it blows

[05:30:44] <geist> DeadYak: create a rwlock primtive

[05:31:07] <geist> for a newer kernel I wrote and use a lot in embedded stuff I have a bunch of little locking primtivies

[05:31:14] <geist> built out of a common wait_queue

[05:31:17] <DeadYak> ah

[05:31:34] <geist> a la win32 basically

[05:31:45] <geist> I really like that strategy much better

[05:32:23] <DeadYak> gotcha

[05:32:25] <geist> you can also build a rwlock out of a condition variable

[05:32:53] *** ozy` has quit IRC

[05:32:56] <geist> more flexible too, because you could then define the ordering

[05:33:03] <geist> reads before writes, writes before reads, etc

[05:33:37] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC

[05:33:50] <geist> but also very implrtant with more primitive locks like mutexes you can deal with priority inversion much better

[05:33:58] <geist> since mutexes by definition can only be relased by the owner

[05:34:18] <geist> you can be sure that by doing priority inheiritance you arent starving out the thread that was actually gonna release it

[05:34:19] *** the_webers_inc has quit IRC

[05:34:33] <geist> wheras with beos style sems you can do whatever you want, so there's no reasonable default

[05:36:52] <DeadYak> this suddenly makes me remember an article by Bryan Cantrill titled 'A Spoonful of Sewage'

[05:37:54] <geist> ah looks interesting

[05:38:06] <DeadYak> found it online?

[05:38:07] <Kokito> about inner city ecology?

[05:38:17] <DeadYak> Kokito: no, about kernel bug hunting

[05:38:20] <geist> not the whole thing, it's a chapter in a book

[05:38:27] <DeadYak> geist: yah, I have the book

[05:38:30] <DeadYak> Beautiful Code iirc

[05:38:45] <DeadYak> I think it was that book

[05:38:48] * Kokito just made another bad joke

[05:38:52] <DeadYak> would need to check

[05:41:11] <DeadYak> geist: I thought it was reprinted elsewhere though, if not, lemme know, I can scan that chapter for ya if you want

[05:53:50] <geist> once again I wish I'd have just shut up

[05:54:13] <geist> ingo just totally explained it and now I wonder how I was thinking this way 5 minutes ago

[05:54:35] <geist> Severe case of 'I can see the problem because I wrote it' syndrome I guess

[05:55:14] <DeadYak> ah

[05:55:47] <geist> sigh. i'll never be that young and clear headed

[05:57:05] <DeadYak> especially at 5AM o.0

[05:57:10] <DeadYak> how he does this day after day I don't know

[05:57:41] <geist> that's the part I can't do anymore. I have lots of ideas, and if I get spooled up on something I can get close to the focus I had before

[05:57:50] <geist> it just takes longer to get spooled up nowadays

[05:58:01] <DeadYak> know the feeling

[05:58:25] <geist> but i'm trying to simplify things a bit around here, keep the distractions down

[05:58:36] <geist> maybe that'll help

[05:59:12] * JonathanThompson feels so old

[05:59:18] <DeadYak> I think I mainly just need a vacation

[05:59:36] <JonathanThompson> Maybe I am just old ;)

[05:59:42] * JonathanThompson can't remember how old geist is

[06:00:14] <geist> 31

[06:00:22] <JonathanThompson> Yup, guess I'm just old ;)

[06:00:25] <geist> brain peaked a while back I guess

[06:00:33] <geist> or is starting the downward slide

[06:00:33] <DeadYak> 28 here

[06:00:53] * JonathanThompson cheers both up by telling them it only gets more noticeable with age

[06:01:06] <geist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4XWtpw79Ww

[06:01:17] <geist> maybe that'll cheer you up

[06:01:46] <DeadYak> how do you find this stuff? :P

[06:02:04] <geist> i just googled for bigfoot

[06:02:15] <geist> been trashing hard drives all day, just got to the bigfoots

[06:02:23] <DeadYak> as in quantum?

[06:02:25] <geist> yeah

[06:02:30] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps you don't really want to know, DeadYak :D

[06:03:20] <geist> got nearly an entire box full of drives to junk now

[06:03:33] <geist> been plugging them in 3 at a time to a linux box and seeing whats on em

[06:03:40] <geist> then wiping

[06:03:41] <JonathanThompson> Wait, he's used a knife in place of the read write head???

[06:03:58] <geist> no, not that youtube. he just popped the top of

[06:04:10] <geist> the bigfoots are super easy to take apart. I was thinking of doing the same

[06:04:46] <DeadYak> what tools do you need to disassemble those?

[06:06:04] <geist> probably a couple of torx drivers

[06:06:27] <DeadYak> ah

[06:06:40] <JonathanThompson> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsUjlM3mvC8&feature=related

[06:07:59] <geist> weird lookin drive

[06:08:12] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC

[06:08:50] * JonathanThompson notes someone really hates hard drives

[06:08:56] <Kokito> geist, you need to learn from Haiku productivity: http://zenhabits.net/2007/09/haiku-productivity-the-fine-art-of-limiting-yourself-to-the-essential/

[06:10:10] <JonathanThompson> This is a funny quote: "Until now. I?ve developed a system I call Haiku Productivity, based on some good ideas by others (and I won?t be able to name them all, but know that I am indebted)."

[06:10:33] <JonathanThompson> It's funny, because it exemplifies what he's claiming to do in its nature ;)

[06:10:55] <geist> yeah

[06:14:12] <Kokito> I like the 5 sentence emails thing. I should start using that.

[06:14:33] <Kokito> http://five.sentenc.es

[06:14:34] <JonathanThompson> I doubt that'll ever take hold in your profession, Kokito ;)

[06:15:01] <Kokito> actually, in business, my emails are pretty concise

[06:15:28] <Kokito> as in, to the point

[06:15:36] <Kokito> believe it or not :)

[06:16:09] * JonathanThompson notes that with his sentences, he could still fill several pages worth of text with only 5 sentences total that are valid english syntax and have proper meaning, even though it taxes the brain of the reader

[06:20:37] <Kokito> yes, I can write long sentences too. I have been told (mostly by younger folks) that I should break down my writing into shorter sentences, as they are easier to understand. I think they just suffer from focus deficit syndrome, probably from using IM too much. :)

[06:21:04] <[Katisu]> or IRC

[06:21:36] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps too many young'uns are too accustomed to texting with incomplete speech/writing, and can't grok full linguistic majesty ;)

[06:21:49] <MindChild> Well, no

[06:22:04] <MindChild> When you had a long sentence, you got a big red mark and -10 points for it

[06:22:27] <MindChild> at least in high schoo;

[06:22:31] <JonathanThompson> All a matter of context, MindChild: sometimes a long sentence is appropriate.

[06:23:14] <MindChild> But rarely, not. Especially once you have gone past the bounds of easy comprehension

[06:23:50] <helf_> olde farts

[06:23:51] <Kokito> absolutely; and with the help of punctuation, they are easy to compregend too.

[06:23:51] * helf_ is 20

[06:23:56] <Kokito> hehe

[06:23:57] <helf_> oh wow

[06:23:58] <helf_> laag

[06:24:49] * JonathanThompson passes helf_ some gas

[06:25:08] * Kokito wonders what that exactly means...

[06:25:28] <JonathanThompson> It's your turn to pass him some gas, too, Kokito ;)

[06:28:15] <geist> fun, just found a whole pile of pentiums

[06:28:28] <JonathanThompson> Enough to match a bag of Doritos?

[06:28:45] <geist> hmm, dunno. bout 20 or 30 of em

[06:29:31] <JonathanThompson> Probably perfect for DIPping :)

[06:29:34] <MindChild> geist: Ive been throwing all of that kind of crap away

[06:29:42] <geist> yep. the box is next to the door

[06:29:48] <geist> had some old cdrom drives, heatsinks, etc

[06:29:53] <MindChild> I just threw away about 100 Cyrix PR300's

[06:29:54] <geist> didn't bother digging any further

[06:30:13] <helf_> threw away?

[06:30:14] <helf_> hello

[06:30:15] <helf_> gold scrap

[06:30:22] <helf_> 900bucks an oz

[06:30:31] <geist> well, i didn't throw it away, it's going to a recycling place

[06:30:32] <MindChild> let the chinese children have at it

[06:30:34] <JonathanThompson> Mail them to helf_ for a small charge ;)

[06:30:41] <helf_> heh

[06:30:42] <MindChild> yeah, I recycle mine

[06:30:47] <helf_> ok, good :P

[06:30:55] <MindChild> I know someone who owns a computer recycling facility

[06:30:58] * JonathanThompson recycles helf_

[06:30:59] <helf_> i have a stack of ppros

[06:31:02] <geist> i took an imac and a pile of keyboards yesterday

[06:31:18] <JonathanThompson> Older CRT iMac?

[06:31:21] <helf_> the 200mhz PPRO-S chips :) 1mb cache..

[06:31:24] <geist> JonathanThompson: yah

[06:31:37] <geist> someone can actually use it

[06:31:40] <geist> better than sitting around here

[06:31:48] <MindChild> Ive got 6x of those PPros in my ALR 6x6

[06:31:55] <JonathanThompson> Yeah, I hate the thought of something perfectly usable being tossed into the dump.

[06:32:04] <geist> http://69.89.31.212/~crcorg/

[06:32:12] <geist> they seem to be good people

[06:32:28] <MindChild> When the cost of shipping and listing something on ebay exceeds what I can get for it, it becomes garbage

[06:33:05] <JonathanThompson> Someone at work has an extra queen-sized box spring he wants to sell.

[06:33:21] <JonathanThompson> I don't think anyone can convince him that he's best off just listing it for free on Craig's List.

[06:33:26] <MindChild> JonathanThompson: I need one, Iroically

[06:33:33] <MindChild> are they in Florida by chance?

[06:33:35] <JonathanThompson> But, would you pay for one?

[06:33:40] <JonathanThompson> No, Everett, WA.

[06:33:48] <MindChild> meh, nope :|

[06:34:07] <JonathanThompson> Wrong side of the US ;)

[06:34:24] <MindChild> Really, I can get a queen box spring for $75. Good luck shipping one that far for that price

[06:34:27] <JonathanThompson> You'd have to go off the lower 48 to get farther away :)

[06:34:32] <MindChild> let alone making it worth the time to ship it

[06:34:50] <JonathanThompson> If you can't go and pick it up in your car, it isn't worth the hassle.

[06:35:03] *** AndrevS has quit IRC

[06:35:45] <JonathanThompson> He already had some kind of platform, but it was one of those deals too good to pass up: buy the mattress, get the boxspring for free!  Even though he had no use for it...

[06:36:03] <geist> they burn nicely

[06:36:09] <MindChild> they really do

[06:36:20] <JonathanThompson> He lives in a condominium :D

[06:36:25] <helf_> MindChild: you have a 6way?

[06:36:26] <geist> couches do too

[06:36:28] <helf_> wanna get rid of it?

[06:36:45] <geist> speaking of 6 ways. was reading about the upcoming 6 way intel chip

[06:36:57] <JonathanThompson> Odd sounding combination.

[06:37:03] <geist> 6 way, 16MB L3, 3MB L2 per pair of cores

[06:37:06] <JonathanThompson> Sort of like double the oddity of the 3-way AMD.

[06:37:17] <geist> second half of the year

[06:37:38] <geist> well, when you toss in that much cache, it ends up taking up about a cores worth of space

[06:37:41] <MindChild> helf_: Well, I could get rid of it... it is one of my favorite machines though, and it is ultra nice. You can configure the whole machine from a touch screen on the front. And it weights like 120 lbs

[06:37:50] <JonathanThompson> Which means you'll be able to use it most effectively by running competing anti-virus software on each core ;)

[06:37:54] <geist> the picture of the layout of the 6 way basically has one corner occupied with the cache

[06:37:59] <helf_> MindChild: ive been wanting one of those... :P

[06:38:25] <helf_> geist: neat, havent looked at any of those pics .just heard someone mention the new chips

[06:38:35] <DeadYak> night guys

[06:38:39] <helf_> cya

[06:38:40] <MindChild> helf_: Ill put it this way. Ill trade it, but I wont sell it. I couldnt give it up for a fair price

[06:39:02] <helf_> hm

[06:39:13] <helf_> I never see those for sale :(

[06:39:35] <helf_> only thing I have close to a worthy trade is my NeXT.. and I'm not giving it up just yet.. :P

[06:40:42] <geist> yeah, the next and indy and beboxes will always end up occupying space

[06:41:17] * JonathanThompson wonders what sort of women geist and helf_ will end up marrying

[06:41:45] <helf_> women?

[06:41:48] <helf_> marrying?

[06:41:57] <helf_> i have to get a steady GF first ;)

[06:41:59] <JonathanThompson> I know of a couple (unmarried) that have an interesting relationship that seems a likely model ;)

[06:42:12] <helf_> geist: yeah. I want to get a bebox...

[06:42:27] <geist> they're relaly not worth that much. they just sit there

[06:42:35] <geist> cant really do anything interesting with em, and they're sloooow

[06:42:36] <JonathanThompson> He's into collecting all kinds of beatup old cars to work on and fix up, with Mazda RX-7's being his preferred critters, and she collects all sorts of animals ;)

[06:42:49] <helf_> heh

[06:42:50] <JonathanThompson> Talking about computers or women, geist?

[06:42:51] <MindChild> geist: what else can I run BeOS < 3 on?

[06:43:09] <geist> fair enough

[06:43:15] <helf_> heh

[06:43:24] <helf_> i almost got a h0bb1t box

[06:43:31] <helf_> but shipping from france would have been horrid

[06:44:03] <helf_> not to mention what the guy wanted for the box itself. heh

[06:44:56] <JonathanThompson> helf_, I'm not sure if there were more vehicles in some varying state of existence, or animals that could be considered likewise.

[06:45:25] <JonathanThompson> I didn't have enough fingers to count the dogs I could see, and I understood there were litters of puppies, too, besides the litter of kittens I saw, the horses, etc.

[06:45:52] <JonathanThompson> And at least half a dozen variations of Mazda RX-7's laying around.

[06:45:57] <helf_> wow

[06:46:04] <helf_> thats just crazy talk

[06:46:41] <JonathanThompson> I got a good look at a rotor, even.

[06:47:22] <helf_> heh

[06:48:05] <JonathanThompson> I'm not sure whether the collection of cars had more interesting mutations, or that of the animals: the cats were dwarf kitties with short legs.

[06:52:14] <JonathanThompson> Here's perhaps the weirdest quote I've run into today, taken from a Yahoo group I'm a member of: "My mother is gathering dust sitting in a storage closet at a cemetery back

[06:52:14] <JonathanThompson> in Santa Rosa and apparently my life is in a similar situation as well.

[06:52:14] <JonathanThompson> "

[06:57:08] *** DeadYak has quit IRC

[07:07:04] *** helf_ has quit IRC

[07:23:09] <umccullough> home :)

[07:23:24] *** Begasus has joined #haiku

[07:24:04] <umccullough> time to see what damage i did earlier

[07:24:26] <Technix> heyas

[07:24:29] *** ozy` has joined #haiku

[07:24:30] *** Poisson_Pilote has joined #haiku

[07:24:35] <Technix> we're enjoying SNOW again here.. its bloody marvelous

[07:24:48] <Begasus> morning peeps

[07:25:06] <Technix> heyas Begasus

[07:25:21] <Begasus> hi Technix

[07:32:32] <umccullough> ah, Haiku has mman.h now :)

[07:32:38] <umccullough> very cool

[07:32:49] <JonathanThompson> Not mmuman.h? :)

[07:33:23] <JonathanThompson> Well, it seems a friend of mine just found a new twist on getting time with a woman through church :/

[07:34:12] <JonathanThompson> It seems my reputation precedes me, and he's wanting to get me into helping remove a virus infestation on a computer.... a modern day version of the old "man saves damsel in distress" story.

[07:36:40] <umccullough> hm...

[07:37:14] <JonathanThompson> And I know you realize just how much of a time pit that whole thing can be, umccullough.

[07:37:57] <umccullough> for me, it's usually just taking the computer, working on it several evenings, and then giving it back

[07:38:06] <umccullough> usually no more than 10 minutes face time ;)

[07:38:20] <JonathanThompson> I don't think my friend fully realizes just how much time it can eat.

[07:38:40] <JonathanThompson> And, his motivation is to have maximal face time with him present.

[07:38:48] <umccullough> heh, good luck with that :)

[07:38:55] <JonathanThompson> Yeah...

[07:39:04] <umccullough> "oh, it's scanning now - might be another few hours before it's done... no reason to sit around watching"

[07:39:29] <umccullough> "and then i'll scan it again with different software after a reboot

[07:39:31] <umccullough> "

[07:39:36] <JonathanThompson> That's all assuming it: 1. has anti-virus software on it 2. If not, it can be installed successfully and 3. it can be run

[07:40:02] <umccullough> AVG+AVG antispyware+BitDefender+HijackThis

[07:40:12] <umccullough> and whatever else you think is fun to run :)

[07:40:16] <JonathanThompson> So many things it could be without checking first, and even then, I'm not 100% certain I can be sure everything was caught.

[07:40:54] <umccullough> if you know what *should* be running in the first place, HJT can be extremely useful

[07:40:58] <JonathanThompson> I know nothing about the computer atm except it's a 4 year old Dell desktop, I think... I'll have to see when I'm stuck there.

[07:41:11] <umccullough> but it really does require you to be able to spot things out of the ordinary :/

[07:41:15] <JonathanThompson> That's the first time I've heard of HJT.

[07:41:19] <umccullough> and on a windows machine, that can be difficult

[07:41:37] <umccullough> many swear by HJT

[07:41:41] <JonathanThompson> Yes, servicehost.exe (or is it svchost.exe) can be doing so many things without labels.

[07:41:48] <JonathanThompson> Is HJT freeware?

[07:41:57] <umccullough> i find shit sometimes called kerneldll.dll and what-not

[07:42:02] <umccullough> makes it hard :/

[07:42:25] <JonathanThompson> I'd be ever-so-tempted to find a recovery partition and just nuke it from orbit.

[07:42:30] <JonathanThompson> It'd at least be more predictable.

[07:42:33] <umccullough> you're referring to all the svchost entries in task manager

[07:42:38] <JonathanThompson> Yes.

[07:42:48] <umccullough> HJT shows you all the stuff that hooks into the nefarious areas of windows

[07:42:51] <JonathanThompson> If someone knows what they're doing, they can add services like that.

[07:43:04] <umccullough> like browser helpers and shell extensions, etc.

[07:43:15] <umccullough> stuff that sneaks into other processes

[07:43:26] <umccullough> that's where all the bad stuff hides these days

[07:43:37] <JonathanThompson> Honestly, this isn't the sort of thing I enjoy doing.

[07:43:44] <JonathanThompson> It's a very frustrating way to exist.

[07:43:51] <umccullough> get used to it :)

[07:43:58] <umccullough> sounds like your friend has it in for you

[07:44:04] <JonathanThompson> It seems like it ;)

[07:44:37] <JonathanThompson> I think my time would be far better used if I taught a small class on safe hex.

[07:44:51] <JonathanThompson> Like, don't run as Administrator unless you really want/need to install software.

[07:44:56] *** Teknomance1 has joined #haiku

[07:45:11] <JonathanThompson> And keep updated on all service packs and critical updates.

[07:45:53] <JonathanThompson> I think it'd be fitting if instead, they found some Microsoft employee to help her: I know there's several there ;)

[07:46:02] *** Teknomance1 has quit IRC

[07:46:32] *** {V}zzz is now known as {V}

[07:50:16] <umccullough> and run some AV software if you can't fix your own machine when you screw it up :)

[07:50:33] <JonathanThompson> Yes...

[07:50:34] <umccullough> AVG free comes highly recommended by Umccullough, Inc.

[07:51:29] <umccullough> oh, and don't let your teenager surf myspace pages and pr0n on your computer

[07:51:46] <umccullough> that seems to be a common ingredient I run into

[07:51:55] <JonathanThompson> I can't help but suspect the MySpace thing may be a contributing factor.

[07:52:10] <JonathanThompson> I'm guessing the woman in question is around my age, without kids.

[07:52:23] <JonathanThompson> Me, I can't remember purposely choosing to go to MySpace.

[08:01:24] <umccullough> usually i get conned into visiting a myspace page

[08:01:34] <umccullough> and then i get pissed when they want me to register to actually see anything

[08:01:37] <umccullough> so i leave :)

[08:29:48] *** Kokito has quit IRC

[08:31:55] *** Roderic has joined #Haiku

[08:31:56] *** Roderic is now known as Ingenu

[08:33:26] *** [1][Katisu] has joined #haiku

[08:33:43] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC

[08:33:44] *** [1][Katisu] is now known as [Katisu]

[09:03:11] *** luroh has joined #haiku

[09:05:26] <Technix> oh my.. truly a sign of a recession: http://www.variety.com/VR1117984246.html

[09:07:55] <umccullough> people pay for porn?

[09:08:02] <Technix> apparently

[09:08:06] <umccullough> wow

[09:08:41] <Technix> but for real, if this industry is suffering, and this is the FIRST TIME I've ever heard it to have a reduction in profit like stated in the article, then its bad.. bad bad bad

[09:09:15] <umccullough> yeah, doom and gloom seems to be showing up in all sorts of places :/

[09:20:38] *** Poisson_Pilote has quit IRC

[09:21:11] *** Poisson_Pilote has joined #haiku

[09:32:27] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku

[09:33:50] *** xcasex has joined #haiku

[09:44:26] *** slaad has joined #haiku

[10:02:27] *** tarandus has joined #haiku

[10:06:17] * JonathanThompson marvels on the oddity of the porn industry being used as an indicator that the economy is screwed

[10:07:00] *** mats has joined #haiku

[10:11:22] <Thom_Holwerda> bah people are just discovering redtube.com [nsfw]

[10:15:21] *** emitrax has joined #haiku

[10:38:17] *** emitrax has quit IRC

[11:21:21] *** petterhj has joined #haiku

[11:34:53] *** emitrax has joined #haiku

[11:48:12] *** vbmithr has joined #haiku

[11:48:59] *** tradewind has joined #haiku

[11:51:33] *** bSON has joined #haiku

[12:14:57] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC

[12:19:27] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku

[12:33:52] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku

[12:35:36] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku

[12:40:29] *** HeTo has joined #haiku

[12:48:05] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC

[12:54:15] *** DaaT has joined #haiku

[12:54:22] <Technix> hi DaaT

[12:54:33] <DaaT> heya

[12:56:56] <Technix> how goes?

[12:56:59] <DaaT> good good

[12:57:00] <DaaT> you?

[12:57:05] <Technix> pretty darn good

[12:57:21] <Technix> I cannot remember, did you get married?

[12:57:58] <DaaT> did, but it was over fast

[12:58:02] <DaaT> wasn't meant to be

[12:58:11] <Technix> oh, sorry to hear that.. at least you both knew?

[12:58:18] <DaaT> *nod*

[12:58:28] <DaaT> what about you? any missus?=

[12:58:28] <Technix> cool man, glad you're head is in a good place

[12:58:29] <DaaT> :)

[12:58:41] <Technix> yeah, I have a girl in PEI whom I'm moving out here

[12:58:52] <Technix> she's willing to move, with her two kids, and live with me, across canada

[12:58:57] <DaaT> nice

[12:59:04] <Technix> yeah, I love her to pieces

[12:59:08] <DaaT> i have no idea why she'd do that.. but hey, it's a free world

[12:59:10] <DaaT> :P

[12:59:13] <Technix> hah

[12:59:29] <Technix> its cause I like, run this really uber website, yo.. you know.. chicks dig it

[12:59:55] <DaaT> chicks dig geeks

[13:00:01] <DaaT> but it's cool, i'm happy for you :)

[13:00:05] <Technix> thx

[13:00:23] <Technix> so you're still in Portugal?

[13:00:40] <DaaT> yep

[13:00:46] <Technix> I know you were in Montreal for a while, its all a bit blurry

[13:01:02] <DaaT> in quebec (montreal only for visiting)

[13:01:11] <Technix> oh.. that was it

[13:01:36] <DaaT> you're up early

[13:01:42] <Technix> actually, I'm at work

[13:01:54] <Technix> I work night shift at http://tera-byte.com

[13:03:08] <DaaT> cool

[13:03:25] <Technix> yeah, it's the second best place to work in my entire life

[13:03:49] <Technix> the best place I've ever worked at was in my mid-twenties, for http://transcena.com

[13:04:08] <Technix> but its pretty swank here.. you should see the servers man, its awesome

[13:04:51] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku

[13:05:00] <DaaT> :) geek's dream?

[13:05:09] <Technix> learning lots about linux server management that I had no idea about before, every day is a new challenge

[13:05:17] <Technix> its a geeks dream, I'm quite happy

[13:05:29] <DaaT> nice

[13:05:50] <Technix> get to use the renice and killall cli a lot. mu wa haha

[13:05:56] <Technix> DIE PROCESS!

[13:06:23] <DaaT> :)

[13:06:26] <Technix> and then there is time to do some programming when its slow

[13:06:43] <Technix> which I'm doing by updating the things I was working on at hnn, before I took a break

[13:06:54] <Technix> wanna see some of it, DaaT?

[13:07:01] <Technix> I think I can ressurect your login

[13:09:23] <Barrett666> hola everybody

[13:09:30] <DaaT> that's ok thanks. No industrial espionage ;)

[13:09:35] <DaaT> still using your own code?

[13:09:36] <DaaT> i'm using joomla

[13:09:37] <Technix> yes

[13:09:42] <Technix> yeah, I know.

[13:10:09] <Technix> I don't mind if you take a look at whats new, most of it will be revealed later to the public once it goes live

[13:10:14] <Technix> just thought you'd like a preview

[13:10:48] <DaaT> then sure

[13:10:49] <DaaT> :)

[13:12:26] *** Paradoxon has joined #haiku

[13:15:37] *** Paradoxon_ has joined #haiku

[13:15:54] <Barrett666> if i have a BBox, how do i to attach to it a BGroupView?

[13:17:06] <Technix> what is a BGroupView?

[13:17:54] <Barrett666> lol

[13:18:37] <Barrett666> Technix is a new class that is a part of the new layout system

[13:18:47] <Technix> oh, then I have no idea

[13:19:32] <Barrett666> np

[13:23:21] <slaad> If BGroupView derives from BView, groupView->AddChild(bbox)

[13:24:20] <cherry`> has Rene been about?

[13:24:36] <slaad> Not in the last few hours

[13:24:41] *** cherry` is now known as cherrypie

[13:24:58] <cherrypie> no problem, thanks

[13:25:29] <cherrypie> just wanted to update him on something non haku related

[13:26:19] * slaad nods

[13:26:26] * Technix nods slaad

[13:26:34] <slaad> I think it's prbably bedtime for him about now.

[13:26:46] <cherrypie> probably

[13:26:46] <slaad> I'll nod you in a minute *menace*

[13:26:51] <Technix> :P

[13:27:00] <cherrypie> hi Technix btw

[13:27:05] <Technix> hi cherrypie sweetie!

[13:27:08] <cherrypie> it's Karina

[13:27:22] <Technix> um hm

[13:27:28] <Technix> still an aussie?

[13:27:33] <cherrypie> yeah

[13:27:39] <Technix> when you coming to Canada?

[13:27:40] <cherrypie> thankfully

[13:27:43] <slaad> Yay. .au represent.

[13:27:45] <cherrypie> no idea

[13:28:00] <Technix> maybe you'll get a ticket in the mailbox. :P

[13:28:13] <cherrypie> lol nah

[13:28:20] <cherrypie> had bad news

[13:28:23] <Technix> pff.. Canada not good enough for you? :)

[13:28:30] <Technix> oh, bad news?!? what

[13:28:35] <cherrypie> got diag with cncer like 2 weeks ago

[13:28:38] <cherrypie> cancer

[13:28:53] <slaad> Ooft. Sorry to hear that.

[13:28:59] <Technix> aw... damn. That is makin sad panda faces everywhere cry

[13:29:00] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku

[13:29:06] <cherrypie> so thankful to be in .au where treatment is state of the art

[13:29:07] * Technix hugs cherrypie

[13:29:23] <cherrypie> is ok, I'm dealing with it fine

[13:29:28] <Technix> good, good

[13:29:29] <cherrypie> but thank you

[13:29:36] <Technix> you will always have an ear here

[13:29:41] <cherrypie> bit of a bummer for a 30th bday present

[13:29:52] <cherrypie> cause my bday was on the 18th

[13:29:54] <Technix> what? I thought you were everlasting 19?

[13:29:59] <cherrypie> lol

[13:30:22] <Technix> didn't you tell me once, that you drank this magic potion and stuff, and like, you were permanently 19???

[13:30:22] <cherrypie> but I should be ok

[13:30:36] <Technix> hrm, must be thinking of some -other- Karina. :P

[13:30:41] <cherrypie> lol maybe

[13:30:49] <cherrypie> all the drugs caught up with me maybe

[13:30:55] <Technix> hah.. and the pool playing

[13:31:03] <cherrypie> yeah something like that

[13:31:19] <Technix> so what brings you back to Haiku?

[13:31:28] <cherrypie> I'm always here

[13:31:41] <cherrypie> still love the BeOS

[13:31:45] <Technix> cool cool

[13:31:57] <cherrypie> just use a mac now cause I can't do what I want on beos

[13:32:07] <Technix> (yet)

[13:32:12] <cherrypie> yup

[13:32:45] <cherrypie> but I follow the news

[13:32:50] <cherrypie> keep an eye open

[13:32:55] <cherrypie> see what's happening

[13:33:01] <Technix> you see Haiku News is back?

[13:33:05] <cherrypie> and say hi in here from time to time

[13:33:14] <cherrypie> nah I didn't see tht

[13:33:18] * Technix falls over

[13:33:35] <Technix> *what happened?*

[13:33:36] <Technix> :)

[13:33:38] *** Paradoxon has quit IRC

[13:33:45] <cherrypie> lol

[13:33:52] <cherrypie> no idea, got busy with life

[13:34:01] <Technix> hehe.. yeah, same

[13:34:05] <cherrypie> but I'm going to take a major siesta now

[13:34:11] <Technix> I had to take a break from beos/haiku

[13:34:24] <Technix> but I didnt' want to give up the domain, etc, and I knew I was coming back

[13:34:29] <cherrypie> can't be fucked with worrying about things

[13:34:43] <Technix> you're ok financially?

[13:34:51] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC

[13:34:52] <cherrypie> yeah I'll be ok

[13:34:56] <Technix> good, I'm glad

[13:35:10] <cherrypie> treatment for me is a blank cheque

[13:35:17] <Technix> you still living in that big ass house?

[13:35:30] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku

[13:35:33] <cherrypie> cause of my age and that I come under a leading doc in the country

[13:35:37] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku

[13:35:48] <cherrypie> nah just a little apartment

[13:36:02] <cherrypie> we're poor but survive fine

[13:36:11] <Technix> dang, it was a nice house from what I saw of the pics.. hey, are you on facebook?

[13:36:20] <Technix> cs.haiku at gmail dot com <-- add meeeeeeeeee

[13:36:25] <cherrypie> nah I never really got into ocial networking

[13:36:31] <Technix> pff..

[13:36:36] <cherrypie> just be a nerd and talk on irc

[13:36:41] <cherrypie> n read science books lol

[13:36:44] <Technix> heh

[13:37:19] <cherrypie> good to be rational and grounded in reality in the hsopital though

[13:37:24] <Technix> too true

[13:37:32] <cherrypie> chaplains floating around like vultures looking for carcasses

[13:38:00] <Technix> geez.. you catholic?

[13:38:01] <cherrypie> they were kinda stunned about how cool I am with everything

[13:38:06] <cherrypie> nah hell no

[13:38:07] <Technix> heh

[13:38:22] <cherrypie> I'm a non believer

[13:38:32] <Technix> same, Atheist

[13:38:41] <cherrypie> but the church likes to get their teeth into public hospiytals here

[13:39:01] <Technix> see, if you were on FB, you could see some pictures of life in Canada, my work, where I live, and allthat

[13:39:37] <cherrypie> lol

[13:40:17] <Technix> its really more than a social site

[13:40:37] <Technix> its more like a technical relations and networking site, with a platform for extendability on top

[13:40:51] <Technix> sorta like how WWW changed the world, Facebook is adding real value to WWW

[13:40:51] <cherrypie> is cool though, treatment is all genetic testing and stem cells and all sorts of shit, chemo treatments are super new, less than 5 years old, so damn lucky to be in this country and have it all paid for by the govt.

[13:41:12] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku

[13:41:30] <Technix> bah.. phones

[13:41:35] <Technix> bbiab

[13:41:42] <slaad> Mr Yak.

[13:42:08] *** nibble has joined #haiku

[13:42:41] <cherrypie> speak of the devil

[13:44:27] <DeadYak> what'd I do?

[13:44:53] <slaad> We saw it all.

[13:45:00] <Technix> you're in so much trouble

[13:45:02] <slaad> And you are in such big trouble, Mister!

[13:45:07] <slaad> Meta jinx.

[13:45:15] * Technix punches slaad out

[13:45:30] <slaad> :(

[13:45:37] <cherrypie> Rene: just let you know I got diag with multiple myeloma (plasma cell cancer) a couple weeks back

[13:46:05] <DeadYak> eep :/

[13:46:10] <DeadYak> that's treatable I hope?

[13:46:23] <cherrypie> hence why been away/quiet, I should be ok, but will be rough for a while

[13:46:28] <DeadYak> ah

[13:46:35] <cherrypie> Rene: yah prognosis is pretty good

[13:46:49] <DeadYak> yay

[13:46:50] <cherrypie> I'm a statistical anomoly

[13:47:04] <cherrypie> ussually only happens in old ppl

[13:47:26] <Monni> *boing*

[13:47:36] * DeadYak nods

[13:47:53] <cherrypie> but remission with them is like 70% for them with latest treatment methods

[13:51:09] <DaaT> re

[13:51:18] * DaaT reads up and pets cherrypie

[13:51:32] <cherrypie> thanks DaaT :)

[13:51:59] * DeadYak wedgies DaaT and flees to work

[13:52:07] <DaaT> you wuss

[13:52:09] * slaad drives around inside DaaT's Wii.

[13:52:14] <cherrypie> don't worry I'll be cool, this stuff here is like amazingly high end, stem cells, genetic profiling etc. amazing stuff

[13:52:30] <DaaT> you better be cool, or i'll smack you

[13:52:31] <slaad> And there's freakin' lasers!

[13:52:32] <DaaT> in the bad way

[13:52:35] <slaad> Pew, pew, pew!

[13:52:40] <DaaT> slaad, mounted on sharks!!

[13:52:50] <Technix> you can mount slaad?

[13:52:51] <cherrypie> lol

[13:52:54] <slaad> PEW PEW PEW!

[13:52:58] <Technix> that's kinda .. gross

[13:53:07] <cherrypie> no lasers that I know off

[13:53:10] <cherrypie> f

[13:53:10] *** Wiss has joined #haiku

[13:53:11] <cherrypie> of

[13:53:14] <cherrypie> damn lol

[13:53:16] <slaad> Sure there is, cherrypie.

[13:53:25] <cherrypie> not for this yet anyway

[13:53:33] <slaad> There probably is *somewhere* along the line.

[13:53:34] <cherrypie> maybe next year

[13:53:39] <slaad> The software for the MRI comes on CD, or something ;)

[13:53:42] <slaad> There's lasers, damnit!

[13:53:45] <cherrypie> lol

[13:53:46] <Monni> lol

[13:54:11] * DaaT smacks slaad

[13:54:15] <cherrypie> depending on how I respond to current chemo

[13:54:16] <slaad> Pew?

[13:54:33] <cherrypie> the doc wants to run me as one of the first in .au on a new one

[13:54:39] <slaad> Nice.

[13:54:46] <DaaT> new one? hopefully with less side effects

[13:54:48] <DaaT> or none

[13:54:51] <cherrypie> $64,000/month worth

[13:55:01] <slaad> Huzzah for public healthcare.

[13:55:06] <cherrypie> uh huh

[13:55:18] <cherrypie> it has really good clinical trial outcomes

[13:55:30] <DaaT> so basically you're a guinea pig?

[13:55:31] <cherrypie> so he's eager to be one of the first to get a go at it

[13:55:42] <cherrypie> sort of

[13:55:47] <DaaT> you pig!

[13:55:57] <cherrypie> because of my age, he can auth money to be spent that wouldn't ussually

[13:56:14] <DaaT> nice

[13:56:58] <cherrypie> yep

[13:57:11] <cherrypie> it's cause this cancer is extremely rare in my age

[13:57:32] <DaaT> well, how do we know you're the age you SAY you are? uh? uh?

[13:57:34] <DaaT> well missy?

[13:57:50] *** timepass has joined #haiku

[13:58:03] <cherrypie> cause I can actually rtfm instead of pestering ppl in here

[13:58:34] <DaaT> pestering ppl? didn't Technix go to sleep?

[13:58:35] <DaaT> :D

[13:58:40] <cherrypie> old ppl and young ppl wan the instant answers, us late 70's early 80's children DIY

[13:58:49] <Monni> current manuals only have 3 letters printed "GIU" ;)

[13:59:17] <Monni> "Google It Up" ;)

[13:59:26] <cherrypie> lol

[13:59:39] *** timepass has left #haiku

[13:59:46] <cherrypie> well even if I was 40 this'd be rare

[14:00:10] <cherrypie> ussually something like 60/70/80yos get

[14:00:33] <cherrypie> and I know where the power button is on my mac mini, so I'm not that old

[14:00:38] <Monni> it's like when you buy a new laptop, the operating system is only on the hard disk as a image, but the burning app is inside the image so you need another machine just to burn the image to get the burning application to burn the image ;)

[14:03:16] <Technix> way to kill the conversation Monni

[14:03:31] <Monni> hehe... my sole intention ;)

[14:03:47] <Technix> I think its cause we're in awe of the circular logic

[14:03:52] <Technix> our brains are still trying to parse

[14:04:06] <Monni> Technix: My mom had to send her laptop DOA to manufacturer because of it didn't have all files it needed to burn the operating system images to get it fully installed

[14:04:35] <cherrypie> lol

[14:04:38] <Monni> 12 GB useless shit on the hd ...

[14:04:40] <cherrypie> must've been a HP

[14:04:49] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC

[14:04:49] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666

[14:04:56] <Monni> Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo 2727

[14:05:00] <cherrypie> aaah

[14:05:14] <cherrypie> just looking at buying a laptop for hospital atm

[14:05:40] <Technix> Bet you'd like a Macbook Air

[14:05:41] <cherrypie> prolly will be a hp, seems about the best deal here in the small laptops

[14:05:56] <slaad> Do you have JB-HiFi in cherrypie-ville, cherrypie?

[14:06:05] <slaad> If so, they do the EeePCs for $500.

[14:06:09] <cherrypie> nah, just a weendose laptop will do

[14:06:14] <slaad> But it depends what yu're going to be using them for.

[14:06:19] <Monni> if I ever buy a laptop, I will request pressed OS discs... burning them from HD takes days...

[14:06:35] <cherrypie> eepc is a bit too lacking

[14:06:50] <cherrypie> need something I can play dvd's on and store lots of video files

[14:07:17] <cherrypie> so I can watch movies and tv shows while there

[14:07:35] <cherrypie> but yeah I had considered them

[14:07:47] *** waveshaper has quit IRC

[14:08:16] <slaad> Ah, fair call.

[14:08:37] <cherrypie> jb have a hp one that looks sweet for what I want, 'm just going to save money, I gt another couple rounds on this chemo which will be done at home if all goes to plan

[14:08:38] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku

[14:09:13] <cherrypie> if it doesn't get the required disease suppression, then I go on the expensive chemo

[14:09:33] <cherrypie> after which it's mega chemo which will kill all my bone marrow

[14:10:01] <cherrypie> then they give me new clean bone marrow which is made from stem cells

[14:10:22] *** DeadYak has quit IRC

[14:10:27] <cherrypie> thats the bit that's going to be shitty

[14:10:35] <Technix> painful?

[14:10:44] *** salad has joined #haiku

[14:10:45] <cherrypie> will make me real sick

[14:10:50] <cherrypie> and no immunities

[14:10:56] <DaaT> ouch

[14:10:57] *** slaad has quit IRC

[14:11:12] <cherrypie> so like a cae of the flu would be fatal

[14:11:38] <DaaT> *nod*

[14:11:44] <cherrypie> after which

[14:12:02] <cherrypie> hopefully if all cancer cells have been successfully nuked

[14:12:08] <cherrypie> I get remission

[14:12:18] <cherrypie> else, round two

[14:12:58] <cherrypie> wait for cancer to become a problem again, more chemo, suppress disease, new bone marrow again

[14:13:11] <Technix> I hope your family and friends, boyfriend, etc etc, are going to be close to you through this process. And you have the entire community here thinking of you

[14:13:27] <cherrypie> family is a mixed bag

[14:13:34] <cherrypie> gf is glued to my side

[14:13:43] <cherrypie> friends have been great

[14:13:52] <cherrypie> and yep I know you guys are cool

[14:14:12] * Technix smacks self.. gf, right.

[14:14:15] <cherrypie> with the new chemo I could get lucky

[14:14:15] <Technix> I totally forgot

[14:14:30] <Technix> good, she is glued to ya.. that's important

[14:14:34] <cherrypie> there is a 15% chance I could go into remission without needing the bone marrow

[14:14:35] * Monni smacks Technix

[14:14:59] <Technix> ow

[14:15:06] <cherrypie> not great odds but better than a drop in the ocean

[14:17:01] <cherrypie> my haemotologist basically says that 80% chance of long term remission exceeding 10 years is pretty realistic

[14:17:31] <cherrypie> he says that longer than that is likely, just that they lack data beyond 10 years cause ppl lose touch with their doctors, stop doing follow ups etc

[14:17:58] <Technix> ah, that makes sense

[14:18:18] * Technix is of the opinion that automated medical records are a good thing

[14:18:46] <Technix> I have no qualms about my privacy, etc. We're living in a very generous and open society as it is, compared to history.

[14:18:48] <cherrypie> but he say to me because I'm so young that I have a massive chance of coming through this with flying colours

[14:18:56] <Technix> I really hope so sweetie

[14:19:02] <cherrypie> yeah me too

[14:19:08] <Technix> *UBER HUGS*

[14:19:09] <cherrypie> though I'm not scared

[14:19:10] <Technix> :)

[14:19:15] <cherrypie> which is weird

[14:19:16] <Technix> no, you sound pretty confident

[14:19:21] <cherrypie> *hugs*

[14:19:26] <cherrypie> good team

[14:19:29] <cherrypie> 3 doctors

[14:20:01] <cherrypie> they spent like at least an hour every day with me in hospital

[14:20:10] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku

[14:20:30] <cherrypie> answer every single question we have, honestly and without easion

[14:20:35] <cherrypie> evasion

[14:21:00] <Technix> that's super

[14:21:05] <cherrypie>  yep

[14:21:16] <cherrypie> yay for Australia's health system is all I have to say

[14:21:27] <cherrypie> except for the shitty hospital food

[14:21:31] <Technix> its so bad here, medical wise (its 100x worse in US, mind ya), that we spend 7 hours just waiting to SEE the doctor for a prescription

[14:21:43] <cherrypie> ouch

[14:21:44] <Technix> at least, in Alberta presently

[14:21:48] <Technix> it used to be a lot faster

[14:21:57] <cherrypie> I went from confirmed diagnosis to chemo within 48hours

[14:22:02] <Technix> but with our economy here, its a sign of the success, the doctors are overwhelmed

[14:22:19] <Technix> wow, that is amazing

[14:22:22] <Technix> really.

[14:22:30] <cherrypie> word to the wise

[14:22:34] <Technix> ya?

[14:22:53] <cherrypie> if anyone ever does a biopsy on your bone marrow, hope the sedatives don't wear off

[14:23:02] <cherrypie> it fucking hurts

[14:23:12] <Technix> um.. ok. I will definitely keep that in mind

[14:23:39] <cherrypie> I had complications, cause my pelvis is all riddled with holes, 15min proceedure took about 30mins

[14:24:07] <cherrypie> so they trying to get a bone smple and it just kept breaking up

[14:24:12] <Technix> geez

[14:24:12] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC

[14:24:18] <Technix> and of course, that broken sample goes somewhere too?

[14:24:34] <Technix> I'm thinking bloodstream?

[14:24:36] <cherrypie> yeah prlly just disolve into my blood stream

[14:24:55] <cherrypie> blood is full of calcium from the bone disintergration anyway

[14:25:02] <Technix> I wonder what kinds of effect that has on a person though

[14:25:15] <Technix> I've heard too much calcium cannot be good either

[14:25:18] <cherrypie> but apparently they alredy have got that under control reasonably well

[14:25:22] <Technix> ok, cool

[14:25:23] <cherrypie> yeah kidney stones

[14:25:28] <cherrypie> but I'm ok

[14:25:43] <cherrypie> I had a deep vein thrombosis in sopital too

[14:25:48] <cherrypie> stil giving me problems

[14:25:53] <Technix> wow, you really are in good spirits. I'm so happy

[14:26:02] <cherrypie> from just above my ankle to just below my kidney

[14:26:19] <cherrypie> clot broke free and I got a pulmonary embolism

[14:26:20] <Technix> that's where they take out the vein?

[14:26:41] <Technix> or something? I don't know what thrombosis is really

[14:26:44] <cherrypie> nah just a complication from the cancer, it makes your bood quite tacky

[14:26:51] <cherrypie> so I clot easy

[14:26:57] <cherrypie> but midicated for that now

[14:27:10] <cherrypie> just need to wait on my body to reabsorb the clot

[14:27:10] <Technix> oh, I see.. its a condition, versus a treatment?

[14:27:30] <cherrypie> yeah

[14:27:42] <cherrypie> it's just a vein all blocked with clot

[14:27:53] <Technix> don't old people get that a lot?

[14:28:01] <Technix> specifically, old ladies?

[14:28:01] <cherrypie> sometimes

[14:28:13] <cherrypie> happes to ppl on aircraft travel a fair bit

[14:28:21] <Technix> hrm..weird

[14:28:23] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC

[14:28:39] <cherrypie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_vein_thrombosis

[14:28:51] <cherrypie> oh I got one of these things oinstalled now whichis weird

[14:29:06] <cherrypie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PICC_line

[14:29:30] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku

[14:29:54] <Technix> yeah, I've seen that done in the hospital (picc lines) when I worked at UofA

[14:29:59] <Technix> at least, the result of them

[14:30:07] <cherrypie> yeah

[14:30:22] <Technix> that was long ago though... you tend to forget that which happened long ago and is no longer relevant

[14:30:46] <cherrypie> that how they get chemo to high blood fow area so it dilutes quick so that it doesn't damage cells in the immediate vicinity

[14:31:04] <Technix> my head is in preparing for marriage, linux, programming, photography, drumming, that sort of thing

[14:31:10] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666

[14:31:11] <cherrypie> lol

[14:31:17] <Technix> I tell ya I'm getting married in a few years?

[14:31:27] <cherrypie> long term planning huh

[14:31:45] <cherrypie> and no first I heard

[14:31:53] <Technix> she's my ex from PEI, I was dating her when I first came onto BeShare in fact

[14:32:00] <cherrypie> cool

[14:32:07] <Technix> many moons ago. :P

[14:32:23] <Technix> we lost touch, but hooked up again, and now are planning things for our future

[14:32:54] <TuneTracker> Technix Howdy

[14:33:00] <Technix> hi Dane!

[14:33:05] <TuneTracker> How are you?!

[14:33:09] <Technix> good, good

[14:33:14] <cherrypie> brb

[14:33:15] <Technix> back in Canada, as you can tell

[14:33:30] <TuneTracker> I haven't read much above...you're back in PEI?

[14:33:38] <Technix> no, Edmonton, Alberta

[14:33:51] <TuneTracker> What are you doing in Edmonton?

[14:33:52] <Technix> see, I had moved to PEI just before I discovered BeOS

[14:33:58] <TuneTracker> oic

[14:33:59] <Technix> but had grown up in Edmonton

[14:34:16] <Technix> but no matter where I am in the world, BeOS will always be my digital domain

[14:34:21] <TuneTracker> hehe

[14:34:28] <TuneTracker> What's keeping you busy these days?

[14:34:29] <Technix> hrm, that makes a good slogan

[14:34:53] <Technix> I'm working, saving my monies, enjoying life, that sort of thing

[14:35:01] <Technix> I work at http://tera-byte.com

[14:35:01] <TuneTracker> What kind of work/

[14:35:02] <TuneTracker> ?

[14:35:05] <TuneTracker> lookin'

[14:35:30] <TuneTracker> Ah, a web host

[14:35:40] <TuneTracker> What do you do there?

[14:35:45] <Technix> and we also provide wireless

[14:35:56] <Technix> I'm NOC, Network Operation Centre

[14:36:29] <Technix> adminstrate servers, make sure user accounts are billed, processed, domains, wireless networks are up, etc

[14:36:51] <TuneTracker> Sounds like *plenty* to do!

[14:37:13] <Begasus> re

[14:37:14] <Technix> it is demanding at times

[14:37:17] <Begasus> hi TuneTracker !

[14:37:19] <TuneTracker> Hey, isn't it cool how far along Haiku is getting?

[14:37:22] <TuneTracker> Howdy Begasus!

[14:37:23] <Technix> it certainly is

[14:39:34] <TuneTracker> Hey, does anybody know of a command line way to restart media services in BeOS?

[14:39:56] <Technix> you could send a BMessage from the command line, I think

[14:40:11] <Technix> using "hey" ?

[14:40:29] <Penix> I think the media prefs dialog can do it

[14:40:31] <Begasus> system/servers/Media & or something?

[14:40:45] <Technix> oh, I know.. two step process

[14:40:53] <Technix> killall -9 Media

[14:40:59] <Technix> and then run /system/servers/Media &

[14:41:04] <Begasus> ;)

[14:41:07] <TuneTracker> ooh, that sounds simple enuf

[14:41:09] <TuneTracker> trying it!

[14:41:16] <Begasus> half way then :D

[14:41:22] <HeTo> doesn't media server die with TERM?

[14:42:28] <DeadYak> there are API calls that do it, not sure if there's any cli app that directly maps to those

[14:42:45] <HeTo> I just thought, why -9

[14:43:02] <TuneTracker>  $ /system/servers/media_server &

[14:43:03] <TuneTracker>  11485

[14:43:04] <TuneTracker>  $ Cannot start the Media Addon Host!

[14:43:04] <TuneTracker>  Already running [80002004]

[14:43:04] <DeadYak> yeah, -9 is pretty much unnecessary unless you have a misbehaving addon

[14:43:05] <TuneTracker>  Try to restart media services in the Media preference panel. If you get this message again, your machine may need re-starting, you may be out of memory, or you may need to install an updated version of BeOS.

[14:43:11] *** bSON has quit IRC

[14:43:26] <DeadYak> that's because you didn't also stop media_addon_server

[14:43:29] <Technix> hrm, you may need to kill the media_addon process too

[14:43:36] <Technix> that

[14:43:39] <TuneTracker> apparently yeah

[14:43:51] <DeadYak> on sigterm I believe media_server will stop media_addon_server as well

[14:43:55] <DeadYak> but not on -9

[14:44:25] <Technix> so just killall I guess. I'm used to using -9 for everything, because we have errant apps on the servers. :P

[14:45:27] *** Paradoxon__ has joined #haiku

[14:45:29] *** Paradoxon__ is now known as Paradoxon

[14:46:07] *** TuneTracker has quit IRC

[14:46:40] <Begasus> guess he had to restart ;)

[14:47:06] <Technix> yup

[14:47:15] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku

[14:47:16] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man

[14:47:17] * Technix is watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DHfISDEOHg

[14:47:28] *** TuneTracker has joined #Haiku

[14:47:42] <TuneTracker> hehe, must be something more to it than that.  :-)

[14:47:43] <TuneTracker> Locked everything here.

[14:47:59] <TuneTracker> 1.  Killed media_server

[14:48:11] <TuneTracker> 2.  Killed media_server_addon

[14:48:12] <Penix> 3. PROFIT!

[14:48:20] <TuneTracker> eh?

[14:48:23] <cherrypie> back

[14:48:26] <Technix> internet meme

[14:48:36] <Technix> carry on Dane

[14:48:54] <TuneTracker> 3.  tried rerunning media_server

[14:48:57] <TuneTracker> locko!

[14:49:09] <salad> 1. You lock the target ?

[14:49:24] <TuneTracker> the whole OS froze

[14:50:31] <Technix> I used to have a script on my old BeOS machine that did exactly what you wanted, Dane, but alas, that is long gone

[14:50:59] <TuneTracker> np I thought I just see if there was some simple way

[14:51:07] <TuneTracker> Someone had asked me for help with it.

[14:53:44] <Technix> maybe, maybe this could help: http://bebits.com/app/1899

[14:54:00] <Technix> but really, you should be able to kill media without repurcussions

[14:54:03] *** Paradoxon_ has quit IRC

[14:54:46] <Begasus> scummvm is getting 2 more engines to the list ;)

[14:54:48] <Technix> dang, Tribute to the 90's is awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7It-6GrZSU

[14:54:55] <Technix> Begasus: congrats

[14:55:04] <Begasus> don't congrat me ;)

[14:55:13] <Begasus> hehe

[14:55:14] <DeadYak> Begasus: which?

[14:55:15] <Technix> ok, I won't then! ever!

[14:55:18] <Technix> EVAH

[14:55:19] <Begasus> m4 and made

[14:55:24] <DeadYak> ah

[14:55:25] <Begasus> rofl

[14:57:37] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku

[14:58:07] <Begasus> Return to Zork demo running for a while already

[15:03:24] *** nutela has joined #haiku

[15:03:41] <DeadYak> Begasus: I remember RTZ

[15:04:00] <nutela> hmm dos2unix replaces the cr in a crlf file with a blank, shouldn't it delete the cr?

[15:04:19] <mmu_man> it should

[15:04:30] <mmu_man> yours seems broken ;)

[15:04:44] <nutela> well it prob is then, weird

[15:04:58] <nutela> strange is that vim didn't show the cr's

[15:05:13] <mmu_man> it converts automatically

[15:05:41] <nutela> so I was wondering why grep ^string$ didn't work while grep ^string did the bad!

[15:06:10] <nutela> and it tells by 'converted' right?

[15:06:16] <vbmithr> Why the default username in Vision is "Heisenberg may have lay here" or something like that ?

[15:06:26] <vbmithr> I don't remember exactly what it was

[15:06:34] <nutela> joke?

[15:06:41] <vbmithr> certainly

[15:06:52] * JonathanThompson votes for it to be "ItMakesMyNipplesHard"

[15:06:57] <vbmithr> But why Heisenberg is part of it ?

[15:07:10] <JonathanThompson> Because, not because, depends on how you see it.

[15:07:34] <Technix> heh

[15:07:37] *** aljen has joined #haiku

[15:07:41] <aljen> hey =)

[15:07:47] <nutela> the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, never got to that, dropped out of school

[15:07:49] <TuneTracker> JonathanThompson Hi there

[15:07:50] <JonathanThompson> The act of observing it changes it.

[15:07:50] <Technix> It's rather uncertain why it was done that way, vbmithr

[15:07:50] * nutela weeps

[15:08:24] <nutela> try explaining that to the girl you were observing JonathanThompson LOL

[15:08:51] <JonathanThompson> A woman understands that inherently, whether or not you explain it to them, nutela ;)

[15:09:02] <DeadYak> vbmithr: "Heisenberg may have slept here"? It was a joke about Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, nothing more.

[15:09:03] <JonathanThompson> Why else do you think makeup exists???

[15:09:21] <nutela> huh I don't get it JonathanThompson

[15:09:33] <vbmithr> I don't see the relation with the uncertainly principe

[15:09:37] <vbmithr> Ah

[15:09:38] * JonathanThompson has a new way to test for male nature

[15:09:39] <nutela> you may have more experience with the other sexe as I

[15:09:40] <vbmithr> May/May not ?

[15:09:56] <vbmithr> Ok, I see

[15:10:21] * JonathanThompson sends an aftershock to nutela

[15:10:47] <nutela> hey a quake comin'! ;-)

[15:11:00] <JonathanThompson> One happened in the midwest Friday morning.

[15:11:03] * nutela sends a system shock back to JonathanThompson

[15:11:09] <JonathanThompson> I was wondering how long that'd take to happen.

[15:11:29] * JonathanThompson stands up fully upright suddenly

[15:11:44] <nutela> btw JonathanThompson we have out 2nd girl healthy at home for 2 weeks now

[15:12:17] <JonathanThompson> My friend's family for awhile owned a house for many years that actually had the property line right down the New Madrid fault, or at least one smaller one attached to it.

[15:12:32] <JonathanThompson> Then you didn't need to go to the store for her?

[15:12:34] <nutela> www.gmx.de/mc/NXspbv1kZxvpdW6H0N57dtxbHGmzKc click on GMX MediaCenter Starten, sorry it's in german

[15:12:41] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku

[15:13:13] <nutela> should that be regarded as a joke JonathanThompson? I'm sorry but I had to ask

[15:13:40] * nutela suspects JonathanThompson not being in his best form lately. must be stress at work or elsewhere

[15:13:46] <JonathanThompson> Well, perhaps previous kids were store-bought, like a cake mix ;D

[15:14:24] <nutela> It think a lot of people would love to buy kids in the shops so they can return them if not liked ;-)

[15:15:00] <JonathanThompson> But you see, if you make them home-made, there's no warranty, expressed or implied, and nobody to take them back to ;)

[15:15:06] *** Penix has quit IRC

[15:15:10] <JonathanThompson> TuneTracker are you registered right now with the server?

[15:15:22] <JonathanThompson> (Name-wise)

[15:16:11] *** Stargater has joined #haiku

[15:16:14] <Stargater> Hi

[15:17:30] *** Poisson_Pilote has quit IRC

[15:17:52] <nutela> btw anyone got a DS? played Mario Kart yesterday over wifi and it was fun (until the connection dropped, must configure my wifi router better)

[15:18:00] <salad> Yup.

[15:18:04] <nutela> any tips on getting the best wireless signal?

[15:18:19] <nutela> what timezone you're in?

[15:18:20] <TuneTracker> JonathanThompson checking

[15:18:30] <DaaT> nutela, only for the Wii

[15:18:43] <DeadYak> I have a DS, but not Mario Kart

[15:18:49] <JonathanThompson> Check your email...

[15:18:54] <nutela> TuneTracker: not registred could see it though

[15:18:55] <salad> I've not played a great deal of WFC games. But when I do, I find proximity to my ruter makes a big difference.

[15:19:02] * JonathanThompson has a DeadYak but neither a DS nor a Mario Kart

[15:19:22] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: is it starting to smell? :P

[15:19:39] <nutela> yeah we have it upstairs connected to a router acting as a client to a public wireless acces point

[15:19:44] * JonathanThompson holds nose, then remembers: if he has to hold his nose, everyone else needs to run like hell

[15:20:07] <nutela> haha

[15:20:18] <nutela> salad I'm GMT+1

[15:20:28] * salad is +... 1 million.

[15:20:31] <salad> Or 11, I think?

[15:20:34] <TuneTracker> JonathanThompson Ok, I'll look into that issue, thanks.

[15:20:45] <nutela> salad is not slaad btw

[15:20:47] <JonathanThompson> Good to see at least your email works ;)

[15:20:48] <nutela> or?

[15:21:12] <TuneTracker> JonathanThompson I just privately chatted with others, strange eh?

[15:21:21] * salad is

[15:21:34] <JonathanThompson> Sounds like it'll be another one of those weeks for me :(

[15:21:39] <nutela> DeadYak: I'd like to know if the wii could act as a torrent downloader, I guess it won't playback 720p or?

[15:21:53] <JonathanThompson> My friend from church, last night he calls me up, with a new scheme to get time with the women....

[15:22:09] *** mmu_man has quit IRC

[15:22:10] <JonathanThompson> It involves me cleaning up a virus-infested Windows XP system...

[15:22:23] <nutela> LOL the women had visited pron sites?

[15:22:26] <JonathanThompson> A new mutation of the classic "Damsel in distress"

[15:22:55] <DeadYak> nutela: 480p max, and I don't see how you'd get it to download torrents

[15:22:59] <JonathanThompson> nutela, believe it or not, it is entirely possible and not remotely improbable to pick up crap from other than pron sites.

[15:23:08] <salad> Or where you'd store them.

[15:23:22] <Technix> most likely the women opened attachments

[15:23:27] <nutela> I dunno JT if I hadn't found my wife in the pub I'd have found here on an Avatar course, they seem to be a lot in the US

[15:23:32] <DeadYak> salad: that too

[15:23:33] <Technix> it seems women are more prone to this then men are

[15:23:45] <salad> I guess on an SD card, maybe :P

[15:23:46] <nutela> DeadYak: install linux on it?

[15:23:57] <DeadYak> nutela: how?

[15:24:06] <nutela> I'd like that or a ps3 but the ps3 sucks like 130watts min?

[15:24:07] <JonathanThompson> When I was working at Coinstar, I was doing online research for an assignment, visited a webforum, and instantly had many anti-virus alerts.

[15:24:21] <Technix> call it sexist, but that's my opinion after many service calls in IT

[15:24:24] <DeadYak> nutela: and you'd store torrents where? it has no hdd, it has 1GB of storage.

[15:24:28] <nutela> DeadYak: no hacks yet?

[15:24:34] <DeadYak> nutela: no.

[15:24:35] <JonathanThompson> Lesson that the development manager learned: never hand over a machine 44 security patches out of date to an employee.

[15:24:36] <nutela> usb drive?

[15:24:37] <Technix> DeadYak: nfs

[15:24:54] <DeadYak> Technix: with what NFS? :P

[15:25:03] <salad> I recommend setting up a cheap MythTV box instead.

[15:25:06] <JonathanThompson> Nut File System ;)

[15:25:15] <nutela> Nutela FS ;-)

[15:25:16] <salad> Or you can buy little media playing boxes for dirt cheap.

[15:25:24] <nutela> like?

[15:25:57] <nutela> I was thinking about the ps3 as the ultimate playback devices but it sucks lots of power!

[15:26:14] <Technix> network file system, no?

[15:26:16] <nutela> haiku still doesn't run on ppc does it?

[15:26:27] * JonathanThompson wonders about how money is spent these days when he sees a headline online "Cultural Differences Found in Pee"

[15:26:47] <nutela> Pee? what is that?

[15:26:50] <DeadYak> nutela: urine.

[15:26:51] <JonathanThompson> AKA urine.

[15:26:59] <nutela> oh

[15:27:19] <nutela> like the wii with a p ;-)

[15:27:37] <JonathanThompson> That means clearly there's money spent in one place it isn't likely to be important, and it is clearly better that it be spent elsewhere (like English class).

[15:27:39] <nutela> DeadYak: haven't heard of the TP save game hack?

[15:28:16] <DeadYak> nutela: I've heard of it, I hadn't heard of it being used to get Linux running

[15:28:17] <nutela> IIRC the wii sucks 20 watts max

[15:28:30] <nutela> well musst not be far of or?

[15:28:37] <DeadYak> 18 watts while running Twilight Princess, but that game was hardly maxing out the hardware

[15:28:48] <nutela> played it?

[15:28:54] <DeadYak> played it, beat it.

[15:29:05] <nutela> played any other zelda games beside that?

[15:29:10] <DeadYak> yes.

[15:29:15] <nutela> similar?

[15:29:21] <DeadYak> I'll put it this way, I still have an SNES in my closet

[15:29:41] <DeadYak> they're all the same basic premise..

[15:29:56] <nutela> I played link to the past on an emu after I had played ocarina and i must say when I played windwaker I quit half way, too similar

[15:29:59] * JonathanThompson watches as DeadYak comes out of the closet with his SNES

[15:30:48] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC

[15:31:01] <nutela> I read on a forum the wii has got a framebuffer too small to hold 720p :-( I guess the cpu+gpu could play back 720p

[15:31:25] *** duaneb has joined #haiku

[15:31:50] <DeadYak> nutela: frame buffer's too small and I don't think the CRTC supports any mode higher than 480p

[15:32:01] <DeadYak> so even if you could get it to generate the images, you'd have no way to output at that res

[15:32:13] <nutela> CRTC?

[15:32:41] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku

[15:32:45] <nutela> btw is DVB-T broadcast interlaced or not?

[15:32:53] <Technix> Canadian Radio-television and

[15:32:54] <Technix> Telecommunications Commission

[15:33:25] <DeadYak> nutela: I forget what it expands to, but it's essentially the component that's responsible for covering and outputting the signal across the wire.

[15:33:30] <nutela> should it be rather Cathode Ray Tube Controller

[15:33:40] <DeadYak> s/covering/converting/

[15:33:41] <Technix> hehe

[15:33:42] <DeadYak> too early in the morning

[15:33:48] <Technix> in to the deeeeeeeed

[15:34:05] <nutela> sed joke nice, just use s/string/string2

[15:34:11] <nutela> s/use/used

[15:34:18] <JonathanThompson> So he sed.

[15:34:26] <nutela> i love the tools btw

[15:34:27] <Technix> awk, that's a bad joke

[15:34:40] <JonathanThompson> I thought it was a real perl, Technix!

[15:34:40] <Technix> I didn't grep what you meant, JonathanThompson

[15:34:50] <nutela> LOL

[15:35:25] * JonathanThompson lobs a ham grenade at nutela on the side-of-pork lines

[15:35:51] <JonathanThompson> If you're lucky, it got fully cooked mid-flight!

[15:36:04] * Technix strings up JonathanThompson with some fiber, and bashes him till he forks over his jokebook

[15:36:12] <JonathanThompson> I guess that'd need an incendiary flash ham grenade..

[15:36:32] * JonathanThompson notes he can always make more, even without consciously intending to

[15:36:42] <nutela> ok now we're at it I was converting a pdf to text but it failed on a thing; it was basically "acronym explanation" but few of it made "acronym\nexplenation"

[15:36:53] <JonathanThompson> But, with your help, at least I'll be more regular, Technix ;)

[15:37:01] <Technix> all that fiber. :P

[15:37:25] <JonathanThompson> Of course, I've always been irregular, if not a bit (or 64) odd ;)

[15:37:56] <nutela> so I'm wondering how to define the acronym with a regex something like ^[A-Z0-9\.\-\\]{2,}$

[15:38:29] <nutela> and then pasting the next line next to it with a space

[15:39:04] <nutela> I could do that with a cat -n and grepping and cutting, any idea how these things are useally done?

[15:39:38] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC

[15:40:50] <nutela> salad: any suggestions for a low power download/myth tv box?

[15:40:59] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku

[15:43:17] <salad> Mac Mini would work?

[15:43:21] <salad> Or just a random PC.

[15:44:15] <nutela> yeah mac mini is what I initially thougt about, too bad there aren't any usb HD sat receivers yet

[15:45:17] <HeTo> nutela: Dreambox?

[15:45:50] <nutela> aren't they quite expensive?

[15:46:41] <HeTo> about the same price as a new Mac mini

[15:46:53] <nutela> the basic problem I see is that boxes which can do a lot tend to suck a lot of juice

[15:47:04] <nutela> hmm

[15:47:17] *** wildur has joined #Haiku

[15:47:45] <nutela> hmm I'll check the power usage

[15:48:40] <Technix> http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2109363,00.asp

[15:48:42] <Technix> nutela:

[15:49:09] <nutela> thanks

[15:49:19] <HeTo> actually, in Finland, Dreambox 7025 with either C or T tuners cost

[15:49:20] <Technix> unfortunately, it looks to be pc only

[15:49:28] <HeTo> costs the same as a Mac mini

[15:49:37] <nutela> you mean xp only Technix?

[15:49:58] <nutela> T tuners are cheap, sat not

[15:50:02] <Technix> yes, in that case, nutela

[15:50:05] <HeTo> S/T combo is 5 EUR cheaper

[15:50:05] <nutela> esp not DVB-S2

[15:50:13] <Technix> however, I did find a Mac usb hd device: http://shopping.msn.com/specs/shp/?itemId=816376303

[15:50:57] *** Teknomance1 has joined #haiku

[15:51:16] <nutela> a ps3 is cheaper

[15:51:23] <nutela> I wonder when play tv comes out

[15:51:50] <nutela> no official HD in cz unfortunately

[15:52:01] <Technix> cheaper than $129?

[15:52:19] <nutela> what costs 129?

[15:52:20] <Technix> that's a great price for what you get, USB form factor, HD

[15:52:24] <Technix> the second link I posted

[15:52:35] <nutela> huh I thought it was only the stick

[15:52:49] <Technix> take a look at that second url

[15:52:51] <Technix> http://shopping.msn.com/specs/shp/?itemId=816376303

[15:53:12] <nutela> you need a pc / mac for that

[15:53:48] <Technix> right. if you wanted to get a mac mini, get this

[15:54:21] <nutela> oh ok, I was looking at elgato stuff for that

[15:54:42] <nutela> I wonder if there are drivers for sticks like that for the ps3

[15:55:00] <nutela> since linux ppc runs on the ps3...

[15:55:27] <HeTo> I'm not sure if you can output HD video from PS3 Linux

[15:55:28] <nutela> when is the ps3 45nm coming :-)

[15:55:35] <nutela> of course you can

[15:55:43] <HeTo> since Linux only runs in a virtual machine with limited access to real hardware

[15:55:46] <nutela> ps2.dev.org

[15:55:57] <nutela> it has been hacked

[15:56:30] <HeTo> An error occurred while loading http://ps2.dev.org:

[15:56:30] <HeTo> Unknown host ps2.dev.org

[15:56:40] <nutela> and there are libs like spu media lib

[15:56:57] *** absabs has joined #haiku

[15:56:58] <nutela> ps2dev.org

[15:57:30] <nutela> sorry gtg work

[15:57:37] *** duaneb has quit IRC

[16:03:24] <HeTo> if it's something that's been hacked, it can be "fixed" in a future firmware revision

[16:04:44] <HeTo> like http://ps2dev.org/News/Is_Sony_blocking_3D_access%3F

[16:05:47] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC

[16:07:05] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC

[16:14:05] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku

[16:14:16] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku

[16:23:02] *** frankps has joined #haiku

[16:26:11] *** duaneb has joined #haiku

[16:26:57] *** salad has quit IRC

[16:27:42] *** TheNerd_ has joined #haiku

[16:28:21] *** mty has quit IRC

[16:30:06] *** Zevs has joined #haiku

[16:31:33] *** aljen has quit IRC

[16:32:38] <duaneb> weird bug here: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/2114

[16:37:10] *** mats has quit IRC

[16:41:19] *** frankps has quit IRC

[16:43:19] *** TheNerd has quit IRC

[16:47:27] <duaneb>  heh

[16:47:38] <duaneb> I did a 'tar xz file.tgz' and was waiting for it to finish

[16:51:17] *** bSON has joined #haiku

[16:55:45] *** absabs has quit IRC

[16:56:43] <nutela> true HeTo, but then someone will find another door, downgrade the fw etc etc

[16:56:59] <duaneb> that was random

[17:06:07] <nutela> hmm mac mini 20W-30W typical, good numbers

[17:09:07] <nutela> ps3 has got a BD drive... who has bought a blu ray film? are they too expensive yet?

[17:09:36] <DeadYak> they're around USD30 a piece on average.

[17:09:59] <cherrypie> bout 10-15% more than dvd here in .au

[17:11:22] *** Ingenu has quit IRC

[17:11:42] *** tqh has joined #haiku

[17:12:58] <nutela> dvd's are offered with newspapers and magazines here in cz, for as cheap as 1-2 euros

[17:13:43] <nutela> the downsides are mostly that they tend to be 4:3, letterbox or low bitrate/bad encoding

[17:15:13] <nutela> we've got an lg lcd 720p 32" and dvd is so so, I bet with bigger screen sizes dvd is too low q, the blu ray demo's in stores are of course amazing...

[17:15:33] <nutela> but 40 euro's for a movie no thanks

[17:16:01] <nutela> and HDTV in europe.... :( what a joke

[17:16:14] <Teknomance1> even PS -2- games here expensive

[17:16:20] <Teknomance1> (legal ones that is) ;P

[17:16:36] <DeadYak> nutela: my 50" 720p looks fine with an upscaling DVD player.

[17:17:47] <nutela> Teknomance1: where do you live?

[17:17:48] <duaneb> DeadYak, python stores its modules in /usr/lib/python2.5

[17:17:55] <Teknomance1> nutela: india

[17:18:09] <duaneb> DeadYak, what would be the beos equivalent?

[17:18:12] <DaaT> heya Teknomance1 :)

[17:18:41] <Teknomance1> hi DaaT :)

[17:18:44] *** Teknomance1 is now known as Teknomancer

[17:18:47] <DaaT> how's it going?

[17:18:48] <nutela> I've seen news report a on a dvd I got with a gaming mag, it was pakistan and illegal game store funny :-)

[17:19:17] <nutela> DeadYak: what is that plasma?

[17:19:18] <Teknomancer> DaaT: yeah fine, somewhat hectic though

[17:19:29] <DeadYak> nutela: rear projection LCD

[17:19:39] <DeadYak> duaneb: /boot/home/config/lib

[17:19:40] <DaaT> Teknomancer, why's that?

[17:19:47] <duaneb> DeadYak, thanks

[17:19:49] <Teknomancer> DaaT: just work

[17:19:50] <DeadYak> and presumably /python2.5 off that

[17:19:53] <nutela> ugh never liked those, seemed way dark when not sitting right in front of one

[17:19:59] <duaneb> DeadYak, even for executable shared libraries?

[17:20:11] <DeadYak> duaneb: generally speaking for *nix stuff on Haiku, --prefix=/boot/home/config

[17:20:14] <DeadYak> duaneb: afaik yes

[17:20:19] <duaneb> ok

[17:20:28] <DaaT> ah ok :)

[17:20:32] <DeadYak> nutela: looks great here, Grand WEGA.

[17:20:41] <nutela> also from angles?

[17:21:25] <DeadYak> dunno, my living room makes it more or less impossible to sit at an angle from it

[17:21:27] <nutela> I'm looking at the newer panasonics, our lcd tv has got.. well lcd blacks :-)

[17:21:47] <nutela> i'm going for plasma next time

[17:21:55] <Teknomancer> tvs are boring, besides for watching Spongebob a small screen CRT TV will do just fine says my pocket :P

[17:22:04] <DaaT> nutela, why not LED?

[17:22:08] <DeadYak> Teknomancer: mine's used more for games than movies.

[17:22:20] <nutela> haha! Teknomancer a CRT in your pocket?

[17:22:21] <DaaT> Teknomancer, i still use my 15+ years old sony crt

[17:22:26] <nutela> with what do you power it?

[17:22:28] <DaaT> closer to 20 i think

[17:22:40] <Teknomancer> yeah we used a TV for about 25 years, Dyanora

[17:22:41] <Teknomancer> i think

[17:22:43] <Technix> http://216.123.238.207/local/viewer/axiscam.htm  <-- this is what we have to deal with here.. *sad panda*

[17:22:45] <DeadYak> DaaT: lol, this TV just replaced a 15-20 year old one that died

[17:22:55] <nutela> DaaT: led lcd? could be better, plasma might be cheaper

[17:22:58] <Teknomancer> nutela: you missed the word "says" i think :0

[17:23:14] <DaaT> DeadYak :)

[17:23:23] <DaaT> nutela, plasma's cheaper yes, I think

[17:23:24] <DeadYak> nutela: by "says my pocket" he meant $$ wise

[17:23:48] <nutela> ah!

[17:23:51] <nutela> haha

[17:24:07] <duaneb> how can  I add gcc flags?

[17:24:17] <nutela> well, I prefer playing Rogue Squadron on our old Sony CRT 51cm

[17:24:35] * nutela SW Rogue Squadron kicks anything ps2

[17:24:48] <Teknomancer> i'm not that good at using console controllers,  my thumb isn't my quickest finger

[17:24:54] <Teknomancer> prefer using good old keyboard

[17:24:58] <nutela> snow in india?

[17:25:01] * DaaT agrees with Teknomancer and prefers the Wiimote :)

[17:25:08] <Teknomancer> Wii rocks!!

[17:25:13] <nutela> DaaT: got a DS?

[17:25:16] <Teknomancer> felt so different

[17:25:19] <DaaT> nutela, no. Only a Wii

[17:25:27] <Teknomancer> nutela: not a chance where I live

[17:25:28] <nutela> you suck! ;-)

[17:25:31] <DaaT> Teknomancer, got a wii?

[17:25:35] <Teknomancer> naa

[17:25:45] <DaaT> nutela, sure do

[17:25:46] <DaaT> :)

[17:25:49] <Teknomancer> played it at a friend's house

[17:25:50] <nutela> got a cube :-)

[17:25:56] <Teknomancer> i don't think Wii is available in india yet

[17:26:00] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC

[17:26:04] <DaaT> that sucks

[17:26:08] <Teknomancer> might be, but i don't dare ask the price

[17:26:11] * nutela wants linux on this not yet bought new box

[17:26:18] <DeadYak> DaaT: damn you for having Mario Kart already

[17:26:19] <Teknomancer> they're selling iPhones here for about 700 USD

[17:26:25] * DaaT slaps DeadYak

[17:26:29] <Teknomancer> the b#$()#$s

[17:26:30] <DaaT> you guys ALWAYS get the games first

[17:26:37] <DaaT> except for kart, so shuddup

[17:26:42] <nutela>  DaaT your from?

[17:26:45] <DeadYak> DaaT: and Mario Strikers :P

[17:26:46] <DaaT> Portugal

[17:26:49] <DeadYak> DaaT: been playing Okami here anyways

[17:26:51] <nutela> ah

[17:26:52] <DaaT> DeadYak, so 2 games out of...?

[17:27:07] <DeadYak> :P

[17:27:10] <DaaT> see? Okami's out over there already

[17:27:14] <nutela> is that navi thing in Okami not annoying DeadYak?

[17:27:16] * DaaT slaps DeadYak again

[17:27:41] <DeadYak> nutela: Issun? he's awesome

[17:27:48] <DeadYak> assuming you mean him

[17:28:08] <DeadYak> DaaT: is it even coming out over there? :P

[17:28:36] * DaaT smacks DeadYak

[17:28:44] <DaaT> it is, I believe

[17:29:02] * DeadYak trouts DaaT

[17:29:12] <nutela> hmm I've seen video's and Issun I'd kill from all the enemies first

[17:29:28] <nutela> so is it more original then Zelda?

[17:29:33] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[17:29:43] <DeadYak> nutela: uh.....what?

[17:29:58] *** _Megaf has quit IRC

[17:30:07] *** genkie has joined #haiku

[17:30:08] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[17:30:08] <DeadYak> depends on how original you consider japanese folklore to be, since that's what all of Okami's story is based around

[17:30:25] *** _Megaf has quit IRC

[17:30:54] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[17:31:17] *** _Megaf has quit IRC

[17:32:24] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC

[17:32:39] <nutela> Okami DeadYak

[17:33:01] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[17:33:05] <DeadYak> I know that

[17:33:16] *** _Megaf has quit IRC

[17:33:20] <DeadYak> I'm asking what does that question even mean? How do you quantify something's originality?

[17:33:31] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[17:33:35] <nutela> copyattr copies also the file not only attributes?

[17:33:41] <DeadYak> if you specify -d, yes.

[17:33:46] *** _Megaf has quit IRC

[17:33:47] <nutela> ok

[17:34:05] <nutela> well like I said, playing the 3rd zelda was like seen that before

[17:34:12] <nutela> done that before, boring

[17:34:19] <DeadYak> if you say so :)

[17:34:50] <nutela> well windwaker started like awesome but then the gameplay became repetetive

[17:35:13] *** HeTo has quit IRC

[17:35:53] <nutela> but the start was really great, a really relaxing game, funny, beautiful alas the gameplay was every so, go there, talk to this guy, he sends you at the other end, get something, oh but you need x first rinse repeat

[17:35:56] <duaneb> also, can I copy files en masse?

[17:36:05] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[17:36:13] <DeadYak> duaneb: in what context?

[17:36:25] <duaneb> DeadYak, I have about ~500 files I need to copy

[17:36:34] <DeadYak> duaneb: cp -R?

[17:36:46] <duaneb> DeadYak, in the jam build system

[17:36:56] <duaneb> so when it builds, jam copies these files for me

[17:37:04] <duaneb> so, in effect, cp -R

[17:37:18] <DeadYak> dunno offhand

[17:37:32] *** HaikuwareDev has joined #Haiku

[17:37:47] *** HaikuwareDev has quit IRC

[17:38:03] <nutela> why is it that rm -r is so much slower then deleting files with Tracker?

[17:38:28] <DeadYak> are you actually deleting them or moving them to the trash?

[17:38:59] *** tradewind has quit IRC

[17:39:28] <nutela> hm doing rm -r haiku tree took more then 6 hours to complete

[17:39:53] <nutela> I didn't try Tracker, but I have the feeling it copied faster as well.

[17:40:20] <DeadYak> that'd be surprising

[17:40:29] <nutela> Everybody was shouting in 2000 how great R5 was but when you really use it....

[17:40:43] <nutela> why is that DeadYak

[17:40:47] <DeadYak> in R5 I always found cp and rm faster than Tracker

[17:41:06] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC

[17:41:07] <DeadYak> nutela: because they use the same system calls to do their work, and because if anything, Tracker's should be slower since it also has to update a GUI, etc.

[17:41:40] <nutela> that's the oposite from what I know unless, when you count the time I tested coping from ide to scsi which was way slower then coping from and to the same ide disk

[17:42:02] <nutela> hmm I must test it more then

[17:42:32] <nutela> well R5's i/o ops are not fast

[17:42:51] <nutela> make that file operations

[17:43:29] <DeadYak> R5's cache is crap, that's not news to anyone

[17:43:47] *** petterhj has quit IRC

[17:43:54] <nutela> I'm not a dev (a humble tester at most)

[17:44:03] <nutela> so news for me

[17:46:46] <duaneb> anyone seen andreas?

[17:47:05] <nutela> xED?

[17:47:07] <Begasus> going down here ...

[17:47:09] <Begasus> cya'll

[17:47:27] <Teknomancer> cu Begasus

[17:47:39] <Begasus> ;)

[17:47:41] <Begasus> plop

[17:47:44] *** Begasus has left #haiku

[17:50:04] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku

[17:58:07] *** aroman has quit IRC

[17:58:13] <duaneb> hey what's wrong with this?

[17:58:14] <duaneb> CopyDirectoryToHaikuImage home config lib : $(SubDir) Lib : -x .svn : ;

[17:58:50] <umccullough> are you supposed to have the last colon before the semicolon?

[17:59:40] <duaneb> umccullough, I think so

[17:59:49] <duaneb> that's the alwaysUpdate flag

[17:59:52] <umccullough> just asking cuz usually colons are used to separate parameters

[18:00:03] <duaneb> Ah, I think I found the problem

[18:00:04] <umccullough> not sure if you can have an empty parameter or not - i don't know enough about jam

[18:00:10] <duaneb> should be $(SubDir)/Lib

[18:00:17] <duaneb> ...or not

[18:00:18] <umccullough> ah

[18:00:23] <umccullough> maybe put it in quotes

[18:00:31] <umccullough> spaces are used to separate tokens

[18:00:45] <umccullough> so if you're building a path, you just put spaces between the path tokens

[18:00:59] <duaneb> wait, $(SUBDIR), not $(SubDir)

[18:01:20] <umccullough> yeah, i was gonna ask about case-sensitivity ;)

[18:01:43] <umccullough> Lib would seem odd as well

[18:01:52] <duaneb> Lib is correct

[18:02:02] <duaneb> it's Python, they like their directories capitalized

[18:02:09] <umccullough> lovely :/

[18:02:12] <umccullough> anyhow, off to work, ttyl

[18:02:23] <duaneb> have fun :P

[18:04:04] *** alexissoft has quit IRC

[18:05:04] <TuneTracker> Is there a way, from the terminal, to send a text string to the serial port, the way a person can in DOS?

[18:06:22] <DeadYak> echo "blah" > /dev/ports/serial/0 ?

[18:06:25] <DeadYak> maybe

[18:06:55] <TuneTracker> mmm

[18:07:06] <TuneTracker> that wouldn't be far different than DOS for sure

[18:07:20] <DeadYak> caveat: I don't know for sure if that works the same way or not

[18:07:26] <DeadYak> or has the same effect

[18:07:29] <TuneTracker> right

[18:07:32] <TuneTracker> speculating

[18:10:51] *** Zevs has quit IRC

[18:13:06] <nutela> just got a handy idea for a mail app; would be cool if one could mark a mail to be deleted in say x weeks

[18:13:22] <nutela> that the information is only relevant a certain period

[18:13:54] <nutela> "mark to be deleted in x time|date"

[18:14:13] <nutela> can Haiku be installed on a mac mini yet?

[18:17:07] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku

[18:21:50] <duaneb> nutela, I would assume using boot camp

[18:22:02] <duaneb> nutela, though are there drivers? I doubt it...

[18:23:19] *** bSON has quit IRC

[18:23:34] *** genkie has quit IRC

[18:25:45] <nutela> drivers for what?

[18:25:57] *** _WindowsUninstal has joined #haiku

[18:26:49] <nutela> wifi and bt support would be obviously missing

[18:27:04] <nutela> for bt im not so sure anymore

[18:30:02] *** Euver has joined #haiku

[18:30:08] *** miqlas has joined #haiku

[18:30:11] <miqlas> Re!

[18:32:58] <duaneb> nutela, well if the mac uses a strange motherboard, there might not be a driver for it

[18:34:33] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku

[18:36:15] <duaneb> who is speaking in that tech talk?

[18:36:21] <duaneb> ahh, bruno

[18:36:41] <nutela> hm

[18:39:38] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC

[18:40:15] <TuneTracker> duaneb What are you referring to...which tech talk?

[18:40:23] <duaneb> see topic

[18:40:45] <TuneTracker> ah

[18:40:54] <TuneTracker> Wonder if that's a recent thing... (looks online)

[18:41:31] <DeadYak> that was last year I think

[18:41:38] <TuneTracker> oh ok, that one

[18:41:47] <TuneTracker> that's kind of old for the topic, ain't it?  :-)

[18:43:39] *** databridge has joined #haiku

[18:44:02] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku

[18:44:36] *** _WindowsUninstal is now known as WindowsUninstall

[18:45:48] *** databridge has quit IRC

[18:51:49] <nutela> going home later

[18:51:50] *** aljen has joined #haiku

[18:51:52] <nutela> exit

[18:51:54] <aljen> hey

[18:51:57] <nutela> oh shit

[18:51:58] <nutela> :-)

[18:52:03] *** nutela has left #haiku

[18:53:01] <stpere> :)

[18:54:19] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC

[18:54:25] <miqlas> Vista comercial video (FUN & english): http://www.indavideo.hu/video/Vicces_Microsoft_Vista_belsos_video

[18:55:51] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku

[18:55:55] *** Stargater has quit IRC

[18:57:52] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku

[18:58:58] <miqlas> MS-DOS commercial video: http://www.indavideo.hu/video/Vicces_MS_DOS_5_promo

[19:00:20] <duaneb> I like axel

[19:03:01] <urnenfeld> thanks god i never saw that being a child... otherwiese I would never end up being computer eng...

[19:04:06] <DeadYak> urnenfeld: LOL

[19:04:41] <miqlas> Bill Gates in the Doom I : http://www.indavideo.hu/video/Bill_Gates_a_Doom-ban

[19:05:58] <Thom_Holwerda> miqlas: you do realise that that vista video is an internal joke, right?

[19:06:05] <duaneb> miqlas, that has scarred me for life

[19:07:58] *** numbah_ has joined #haiku

[19:08:16] <miqlas> Ahhhh... This blow my mind: http://www.indavideo.hu/video/Ballmer_arulja_a_Windows_XP-t

[19:08:28] *** numbah has quit IRC

[19:08:33] <miqlas> I think we need good marketing for the Haiku....

[19:09:42] <Teknomancer> nite

[19:09:42] *** Teknomancer has left #haiku

[19:09:56] <miqlas> Maybe with an good sales man. But not with Ballmer....

[19:10:59] <miqlas> (I found this videos here: http://index.hu/tech/szoftver/elpvr080417/   You can found lot of video for dos, win1.0, win3.0 .....95, xp...) Very stupid...

[19:18:22] <duaneb> isn't this a laugh?

[19:18:23] <duaneb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyOS#SkyFS

[19:20:24] <DeadYak> what's the laugh?

[19:24:13] <duaneb> I have yet to see something original from skyos

[19:25:43] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku

[19:25:44] <ddew|bofh> o/

[19:26:21] <DaaT> hiya

[19:32:00] *** dr_Evil has joined #haiku

[19:32:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_Evil

[19:32:16] *** Stargater has joined #haiku

[19:32:17] <Stargater> re

[19:36:24] *** DHowett has joined #haiku

[19:37:48] *** ThomHolwerda has joined #haiku

[19:37:58] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC

[19:37:59] * ThomHolwerda waves

[19:38:08] * DeadYak pets ThomHolwerda

[19:38:13] <duaneb> can anyone else not build the latest svn?

[19:38:18] * ThomHolwerda pets DeadYak

[19:38:25] <duaneb> mine fails on '...skipped haiku.img for lack of <HaikuImage>haiku.image-copy-files...'

[19:38:27] *** Barrett has joined #haiku

[19:38:34] <DeadYak> duaneb: jam -q?

[19:38:38] <duaneb> yep

[19:38:45] <duaneb> I'm about to turn my addons off

[19:38:46] <DeadYak> nothing above that?

[19:39:39] <duaneb> oh, wait, I see a problem

[19:39:45] <duaneb> stupid me :P

[19:39:57] * DaaT pets Thom_Holwerda

[19:40:05] * ThomHolwerda pets DaaT

[19:40:22] <ThomHolwerda> equal footing, that's new :P

[19:40:41] <DaaT> :P

[19:40:57] * DaaT is going to see Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds tonight

[19:42:49] <ThomHolwerda> people

[19:42:50] <ThomHolwerda> sending

[19:42:51] <ThomHolwerda> in

[19:42:52] <ThomHolwerda> a

[19:42:53] <DHowett> DaaT: Niice

[19:42:53] <ThomHolwerda> link

[19:42:54] <ThomHolwerda> to

[19:42:56] <ThomHolwerda> digg :(

[19:43:09] <Monni> eh...

[19:43:12] <ThomHolwerda> you should be able to shock people over teh intarweb

[19:43:25] <DaaT> DHowett, hope so :)

[19:43:30] <ThomHolwerda> sending in to osn*

[19:45:16] <DaaT> bbiab

[19:47:24] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku

[19:47:54] *** oco has joined #haiku

[19:49:01] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku

[19:49:24] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC

[19:49:25] *** Barrett is now known as Barrett666

[19:53:42] <stpere> yawn

[19:59:53] <MichaelHenry> Is there a binary build of Icon o Matic

[20:07:00] <duaneb> COPY YOU shared library!

[20:07:18] <stpere> :)

[20:15:40] *** aroman has joined #haiku

[20:16:00] <DeadYak> aroman: how goes?

[20:16:03] *** BenoitRen has joined #haiku

[20:16:09] <aroman> DeadYak: good... @ work...

[20:16:18] <aroman> DeadYak: you?

[20:17:33] <BenoitRen> If I'm not mistaken, BeOS was designed to work with a Pentium with 32 MB of RAM. Now, I'm not complaining, but how come Haiku is using 80 MB of RAM when freshly booted?

[20:18:28] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: did you ever try BeOS on a pentium with 32MB of RAM?

[20:18:33] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: it barely worked.

[20:18:34] <oco> maybe some optimizations in the futur will reduce this memory

[20:18:38] <aroman> Haiku != BeOS...

[20:18:41] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: Well, no...

[20:18:49] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: I'll note that a typical R5 boots up to about 80MB as well

[20:19:10] <BenoitRen> What's all this RAM used for?

[20:19:26] <DeadYak> the servers, kernel, caches, etc?

[20:19:58] <oco> and there is not yet swap file support under Haiku.

[20:20:09] <BenoitRen> Well, Windows versions at the time worked fine with 32 to 64 MB of RAM.

[20:20:14] <DeadYak> worked fine?

[20:20:15] <DeadYak> haha

[20:20:18] <DeadYak> you're kidding me

[20:20:27] <BenoitRen> I'm dead serious.

[20:20:28] <DeadYak> win2k on 32MB RAM is not "fine"

[20:20:36] * aroman remembers trying to run Windows 95 on a 486 with 32 MB of RAM :P

[20:20:37] <BenoitRen> I'm talking about Win95 and Win98.

[20:20:57] * aroman remembers he could barely use Winamp

[20:21:01] * DaaT ran Win95 with 4MB and later 8MB of RAM

[20:21:04] <oco> maybe the goal for haiku should be "work" not work fine in such situation

[20:21:25] * BenoitRen has run Win95 with 32 MB of RAM for years without issues

[20:21:28] <DaaT> bbiab

[20:21:39] <DeadYak> different algorithms trade RAM usage for performance

[20:21:49] <DeadYak> also note that R5 wouldn't use more than a certain amount for disk cache

[20:21:53] <PulkoMandy> +++

[20:21:56] <DeadYak> which is one of many reasons it absolutely sucked balls at I/O

[20:21:58] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC

[20:22:01] <ddew|bofh> i honestly can't think of any machines with less than 256MB ram in them anyway :)

[20:22:11] <ddew|bofh> barring embedded devices and/or phones

[20:22:18] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: both of my BeBoxes have 128MB atm :P

[20:22:31] <BenoitRen> My PC has 160 MB of RAM.

[20:22:40] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: You have BeBoxes? Cool.

[20:22:53] <ddew|bofh> yoinks, i went by the junkyard a while back and picked up 3 machines. all of them had 512mb

[20:23:04] <duaneb> could someone explain to me why I can't copy my shared library to the image?

[20:23:23] *** mats has joined #haiku

[20:23:37] <DeadYak> my oldest at the moment PC has 512

[20:23:46] <DeadYak> the other one, 1GB

[20:24:01] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: So using more RAM leads to better performance?

[20:24:06] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: yes.

[20:24:09] <ddew|bofh> i have 2 machines with 512, one with 1gb and one with 5gb

[20:24:15] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: or at least a lot of algorithms make that tradeoff

[20:24:16] * ddew|bofh loves ram

[20:24:30] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: also consider caching

[20:24:35] * aroman upgraded to 4GB on his laptop this weekend :D

[20:24:50] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: Haiku's VM is capable of using as much RAM as it wants for disk cache, though that will be relinquished if an app asks for it

[20:24:50] <duaneb> http://pasteall.org/587/text

[20:25:03] * aroman can finally build haiku in haiku in vmware (1.5GB RAM went to it)

[20:25:18] <ddew|bofh> ram is so cheap nowadays that upgrading is a given

[20:25:21] <duaneb> when I boot the image, the lib-dynload is there, but no math.so

[20:25:24] <BenoitRen> Personally I believe in using available resources as efficiently as possible.

[20:25:31] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: define efficiently

[20:25:50] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: Using as few RAM and CPU cycles as possible.

[20:26:03] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: that doesn't translate into better performance automatically though

[20:26:16] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: I guess.

[20:26:16] <ddew|bofh> isn't using available cycles and ram for speed better?

[20:26:23] <duaneb> anyone? :/

[20:26:36] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: using as little RAM as possible is meaningless, that's more often done at the cost of speed

[20:27:02] <ddew|bofh> using ram for fs cache or caching in general is a big win

[20:27:07] <BenoitRen> Well, I have a problem when certain OSs *cough* Windows *cough* using up tons of RAM for meager return in performance.

[20:27:24] <BenoitRen> And things like eye candy.

[20:27:39] <DeadYak> Windows's problem is partly that it's hyperaggressive about paging stuff out when it doesn't need to

[20:27:59] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: they've fixed that (somewhat) in vista

[20:28:11] <Monni> mine uses 400.368 kB for caches ;)

[20:28:15] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: based off his PC having 160MB of RAM, I'm assuming he's not running Vista :P

[20:28:30] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: well duh :)

[20:28:44] <DeadYak> though good to hear they've improved that

[20:28:44] <BenoitRen> I'm running Windows 95. To me, it's when Windows was at its best.

[20:28:45] <ddew|bofh> just wanted to not that they've fixed that problem

[20:28:57] <ddew|bofh> 95==windows at it's best? :O

[20:29:00] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: you're alone in that assessment then, I lost count of how often that crashed on me

[20:29:02] <ddew|bofh> my mind boggles

[20:29:12] <ddew|bofh> win9x is EVIL

[20:29:17] <DeadYak> and generally had issues with not properly multitasking, etc.

[20:29:21] <BenoitRen> After 95 they started adding a load of crap.

[20:29:22] <Monni> 95 B was best, 95 C was worse...

[20:29:25] <DeadYak> comparing that to any modern OS is imo a joke.

[20:29:43] <Monni> 95 C was almost like 98 beta...

[20:29:43] <duaneb> DeadYak, can you tell me what's wrong? :P

[20:29:49] <DeadYak> duaneb: nope sorry

[20:30:10] <ddew|bofh> win95 had a nasty habit of crashing when running 2+ apps at the same time

[20:30:11] <xcasex> we all know haiku is the start of the first cylon ai

[20:30:12] <BenoitRen> IE integration, tons of 'helpful' questions, hiding of system properties/folders, eye candy, etc.

[20:30:33] <BenoitRen> I will admit that Win2K and WinXP are more stable than any Win9x.

[20:30:34] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: indeed, that was my problem

[20:30:39] <BenoitRen> But I don't like what comes with it.

[20:30:42] <ddew|bofh> yeah, god forbid they should make the OS more accesible for normal people

[20:30:44] <Monni> XP works fine with 50+ apps running as long as there is no heavy I/O ;)

[20:31:07] <BenoitRen> ddew|bofh: The problem is that accessible means "treat the user like an idiot" in the Windows world.

[20:31:09] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: using less RAM does me no good if I'm rebooting every 5 minutes.

[20:31:24] <ddew|bofh> BenoitRen: sorry but you're talking out of your ass

[20:31:46] <BenoitRen> ddew|bofh: Hardly. I actually use what I'm talking about.

[20:31:57] <DeadYak> I used win95 for years.

[20:31:59] <DeadYak> it sucked ass.

[20:32:00] <DeadYak> period.

[20:32:05] *** Euver has quit IRC

[20:32:07] <BenoitRen> People exaggarate about Win9x all the time.

[20:32:13] <DeadYak> please don't presume that you're the only one that ever uses it.

[20:32:16] <DeadYak> no, no I'm not exaggerating.

[20:32:31] <DeadYak> a fresh install with nothing else on it was fine.

[20:32:33] <MichaelHenry> BenoitRen: I liked 95 and 98 also....

[20:32:35] <BenoitRen> Yes you are when you say it can't run multiple apps and crashes every five minutes.

[20:32:37] <DeadYak> add some apps, and welcome to crash land.

[20:32:48] <ddew|bofh> if you only use 9x for writing a document or listen to some music it can be fairly stable. but once you start actually doing more taxing work it folds like a deck of cards

[20:32:52] <DeadYak> because that's what happened to me and more or less anyone else that tried to heavily multitask in it.

[20:32:58] <DeadYak> and no that wasn't an exaggeration whatsoever.

[20:33:05] <BenoitRen> I'm running 4 apps right now.

[20:33:07] <MichaelHenry> Used them for years

[20:33:14] <DeadYak> but believe what you like, feel free to consider it the pinnacle of OS development all you want.

[20:33:37] <BenoitRen> It's not the pinnacle, but it's the best Windows edition in my view.

[20:33:51] <BenoitRen> No IE integration, yay!

[20:34:05] * BenoitRen is using 95B

[20:34:07] <MichaelHenry> except for IE 4

[20:34:13] <stpere> win 3.1 is like that too

[20:34:24] <BenoitRen> Well, 95 C without IE4, actually. Not even IE3.

[20:34:26] <MichaelHenry> thats when IE intregated itself with 95

[20:34:37] <MichaelHenry> ie 5 didn't

[20:34:43] <aroman> I think the best windows was perhaps 2000 or XP... something with the NT kernel and not so much bloat...

[20:34:54] <BenoitRen> Yeah, I had IE5 installed for a long time. But never IE4.

[20:34:54] <xcasex> what is this? #slashdot?

[20:34:56] <DeadYak> aroman: w2k was my favorite as well

[20:35:05] <ddew|bofh> i'm a fan of vista

[20:35:06] <ThomHolwerda> DeadYak: server 2003 all the way for me

[20:35:11] * ThomHolwerda slaps ddew|bofh

[20:35:14] <stpere> xcasex: hehe, sounds like it

[20:35:21] <ThomHolwerda> ddew|bofh: , you want in osnews, right? :P

[20:35:26] <ddew|bofh> if it'd had better interoperability i'd use that instead of os x

[20:35:49] <ThomHolwerda> too bad i cant find a cheap copy of server 2003 :(

[20:35:58] <MichaelHenry> w2k was the stablest of all windows

[20:36:00] <ddew|bofh> ThomHolwerda: hehe, not if i can't have my own opinions ;)

[20:36:09] <ThomHolwerda> ddew|bofh: just kidding around :)

[20:36:11] <MichaelHenry> not so much eye candy

[20:36:12] <BenoitRen> Anyway, Haiku interests me because it's being developed for the desktop and its goal is to be efficient.

[20:36:15] <ddew|bofh> i know :)

[20:36:18] <MichaelHenry> amen

[20:36:35] <ddew|bofh> in a few weeks i'll be getting 10 win2k8 licenses :D

[20:36:51] <MichaelHenry> wow

[20:36:52] <ddew|bofh> that os kicks some serious ass

[20:37:01] <BenoitRen> People crashing with Win95 either had bad drivers or installed IE4...

[20:37:03] <ThomHolwerda> ddew|bofh: review it for osn :)

[20:37:20] <MichaelHenry> you gonna give out birthday gifts with the licenses right ddewlbofh

[20:37:21] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: mm, no.

[20:37:22] <ddew|bofh> noone's done that yet?

[20:37:24] <MichaelHenry> :D

[20:37:33] <ThomHolwerda> i can get my hands on a copy too but im too lazy to fetch the email address of the MS pr lady

[20:37:33] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: win9x had various kernel data structures mapped as read/writable from user space

[20:37:38] <DeadYak> ergo any misbehaving app could trivially crash it.

[20:37:45] <ddew|bofh> MichaelHenry: hehe, depends on the licensing terms. :)

[20:37:46] <ThomHolwerda> ddew|bofh: nope

[20:37:52] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: Solution: use good apps. :)

[20:38:07] <MichaelHenry> well my bday is coming up in october :D

[20:38:10] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: better solution: use an OS with real mem protection and multitasking

[20:38:23] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: To use badly-coded apps? I'd rather pass...

[20:38:25] <ThomHolwerda> ddew|bofh: seeing you get 10 server 2008 licenses, dont you have a spare 2003 one? :D

[20:38:39] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: have fun staying in win95 forever then

[20:38:42] <stpere> god, firt time I encounter a win95 fan boy

[20:38:45] <stpere> first*

[20:38:52] <ThomHolwerda> stpere: first time for everything

[20:38:55] <stpere> can I have your signature?

[20:39:00] <ThomHolwerda> stockholm syndrome

[20:39:01] <ddew|bofh> unfortunatly not, i've just recently convinced my employer that linux servers are hard to manage :=

[20:39:03] <ddew|bofh> :)

[20:39:04] <MichaelHenry> ThomHolwerda: your Bday coming up soon too huh :D

[20:39:09] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: I'll be running Haiku as well if you guys ever get R1 out. :)

[20:39:20] <ThomHolwerda> ddew|bofh: too bad :)

[20:39:28] <MichaelHenry> linux servers aren't that hard

[20:39:35] <MichaelHenry> depends on the distro

[20:39:41] <stpere> it's like saying : don't crash your car, you know there is no air bags anyway

[20:39:43] <ddew|bofh> depends on what you do

[20:39:54] <MichaelHenry> what are you doing with it?

[20:39:57] <BenoitRen> Stockholm? God, stop being so nasty. I've run this thing for almost 10 years without major problems. It just works for me.

[20:40:06] <stpere> good for you

[20:40:09] <ddew|bofh> MichaelHenry: managing a few dosen webhosts

[20:40:10] <stpere> how many reinstall?

[20:40:13] <ddew|bofh> remotely

[20:40:14] <stpere> honestly

[20:40:25] <MichaelHenry> ahh

[20:40:38] <MichaelHenry> dunno then all mine I have done in house

[20:40:39] <Monni> air bags contribute nice amount to neck injuries...

[20:40:46] <MichaelHenry> never had to do remote

[20:41:00] <stpere> Monni: it was an analogy, bad, I know

[20:41:01] <BenoitRen> Hmm, I ran a couple years without reinstall. Then my hard drive died. Then I ran 98 for a couple months. (yuck) Then I reinstalled 95.

[20:41:02] <stpere> :)

[20:41:38] <Monni> normally driver leans forward when car crashes, but air bags push head backwards...

[20:41:41] *** Kokito has joined #haiku

[20:41:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Kokito

[20:41:50] <MichaelHenry> though I wish some would put together a server distro based on BeosMax

[20:41:51] <stpere> hi Kokito !

[20:41:53] <MichaelHenry> that would be cool

[20:41:56] <stpere> pick a topic

[20:41:59] *** oco has quit IRC

[20:42:02] <Kokito> hi stpere :)

[20:42:03] <ddew|bofh> Monni: that's why wearing your seatbelt is a good idea :P

[20:42:07] <ThomHolwerda> ola Kokito

[20:42:17] <Kokito> howdy Thom_Holwerda

[20:42:35] * DeadYak pets Kokito

[20:42:39] <BenoitRen> I've reinstalled 95 a couple times over the years, trying to get the best config. Two years ago I did to get rid of IE. One year ago to partition my HDD.

[20:42:42] <Monni> ddew|bofh: actually it's bad unless it's simple belt-type used for example in middle rear...

[20:42:47] <Kokito> hey DeadYak :)

[20:43:08] <ddew|bofh> Monni: ever been in a car accident?

[20:43:12] <BenoitRen> BeOS as a server? Is that a good idea?

[20:43:16] <DeadYak> not really.

[20:43:25] <MichaelHenry> why?

[20:43:29] <BenoitRen> Thought so.

[20:43:35] <stpere> is there multi user support ?

[20:43:44] *** korli has joined #haiku

[20:43:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli

[20:43:45] <DeadYak> because it's slow and the amount of serving software for it is very limited due to lack of POSIX and various other things

[20:43:47] <MichaelHenry> on bebits there is

[20:44:05] <korli> evening

[20:44:13] <stpere> hi korli

[20:44:17] <MichaelHenry> for a webserver or file server, not an app server

[20:44:24] *** oco has joined #haiku

[20:44:29] <DeadYak> hi korli

[20:44:42] <korli> no commits today ?

[20:44:56] <BenoitRen> I wonder, if Haiku is single-user, why does the file system have these multi-user permissions? Is it for compatibility?

[20:45:05] <DeadYak> korli: not yet that I've seen

[20:45:09] <MichaelHenry> An app server would be horrible under Beos, granted

[20:45:23] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: POSIX-style file permissions

[20:45:33] <BenoitRen> Ohh.

[20:45:49] <MichaelHenry> Does Haiku have better POSIX support than Beos

[20:45:58] <ddew|bofh> isn't adding multi-user support also one of the goals for r1?

[20:46:07] <BenoitRen> No.

[20:46:20] <{V}> MichaelHenry, yes.

[20:46:42] <MichaelHenry> So porting apps will be a whole lot easier and better

[20:46:53] <MichaelHenry> in theory at least

[20:47:35] <BenoitRen> I will hit the developer who implements multi-user into Haiku with a mallet, if that should happen.

[20:47:54] <MichaelHenry> lol

[20:47:58] <ThomHolwerda> does anyone here see it as a problem that osnews does less items a day, but that those items are more in-depth?

[20:48:00] <MichaelHenry> 95 had it

[20:48:01] <duaneb> BenoitRen, what's wrong with multiuser?

[20:48:03] <{V}> BenoitRen, you will do no such thing

[20:48:05] <ThomHolwerda> assumign there are osn readers in her,e that is.

[20:48:13] <ddew|bofh> ThomHolwerda: no, that is a good thing

[20:48:25] <ThomHolwerda> in other words, are there people who prefer more but shallower items?

[20:48:31] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: then you may as well leave now, because it will happen eventually.

[20:48:33] <BenoitRen> duaneb: On a desktop, it sucks.

[20:48:34] <Monni> ddew|bofh: I've been in a few car crashes and once taking seat belt off saved my life... car went down the cliffside...

[20:49:00] <duaneb> BenoitRen, wtf?

[20:49:05] <DeadYak> great reasoning there

[20:49:20] <duaneb> BenoitRen, you clearly don't have any confidential information on your computer

[20:49:30] *** DaaT has quit IRC

[20:49:34] <BenoitRen> 1) Haiku was NOT designed as multi-user from the ground up, unlike GNU/Linux. 2) It's a desktop OS. Not an OS for some server company where all users need permissions and logins and stuff.

[20:49:37] <MichaelHenry> how about an option to log into a specific user, BenoitRen

[20:49:44] <ddew|bofh> Monni: seatbelts help a lot, your isolated occurance of it helping goes against 40 years of research on the subject

[20:50:03] <duaneb> BenoitRen, I will never use a computer where people have unrestricted access to my computer

[20:50:06] <ThomHolwerda> BenoitRen: err, beos WAS designed with multi-user in mind, the ground work is present.

[20:50:21] <duaneb> My frickin credit card information is stored on my computer

[20:50:37] <Monni> ddew|bofh: well... like I said... it depends on type of the seatbelt and other safety equipment installed... It also depends on the angle and speed of the impact

[20:50:40] <BenoitRen> duaneb: Whoever has physical access to your computer can get out of it what he/she wants.

[20:50:53] <duaneb> BenoitRen, that may be

[20:51:04] <duaneb> BenoitRen, but I don't want a two year old to be able to do it

[20:51:05] <ddew|bofh> Monni: it depends on a lot of things and the conclusion so far is that in general seatbelts help

[20:51:06] <MichaelHenry> ddewlbofh: dunno lost a cousin and a friend because of seatbelts snapping their neck

[20:51:21] <BenoitRen> duaneb: Then encrypt it.

[20:51:39] <duaneb> BenoitRen, I shouldn't have to

[20:51:47] <Monni> ddew|bofh: actually that is quite incorrect

[20:51:49] <duaneb> that's the beauty of every modern system

[20:51:50] <{V}> Thom_Holwerda, I tend to treat osnews as a supplement to the news on slashdot. So, I think I prefer more over in-depth. If I want in-depth I read the original source article and/or the comments

[20:51:56] <MichaelHenry> ddewlbofh: so it goes either way

[20:52:11] <ddew|bofh> MichaelHenry: i've had seatbelts save my sister when the car flipped over and kept her in her seat without throwing her out on the freeway. empirical evidence is irrelevant :)

[20:52:12] <BenoitRen> duaneb: Why not? Confidential data gets encrypted. It's only natural.

[20:52:48] <ThomHolwerda> how on earth can a seat belt snap your neck

[20:52:49] <DeadYak> unless you live alone, even a desktop system is nowadays going to be multiuser.

[20:52:59] <BenoitRen> Which is stupid.

[20:53:03] <Monni> tightens too fast

[20:53:04] <ThomHolwerda> is that even physicaly possible?

[20:53:05] <DeadYak> ummm

[20:53:06] <ddew|bofh> not wearing it properly perhaps?

[20:53:16] <MichaelHenry> ddewlbofh: you're right, but tell that to my aunt and uncle who buried their granddaughter last year

[20:53:17] <DeadYak> it's stupid that I have a wife who needs her own account because she wants different desktop settings, etc?

[20:53:24] <DeadYak> get real dude.

[20:53:26] <duaneb> BenoitRen, ok, imagine you have a family computer

[20:53:28] <ddew|bofh> MichaelHenry: i'd gladly do that

[20:53:31] <duaneb> you're going to want different users

[20:53:37] <BenoitRen> duaneb: Not me.

[20:53:47] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: well guess what, most of us do.

[20:53:54] <stpere> BenoitRen: then share the same account!

[20:53:55] <stpere> geez

[20:53:58] <ThomHolwerda> BenoitRen: and there are men who dont need women, doesnt mean needing women is stupid.

[20:53:59] <MichaelHenry> yes she was wearing it properly, the way the car impact against her (drunk driver) killed her

[20:53:59] <duaneb> BenoitRen, fortunately, os development doesn't center around you

[20:54:03] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: feel free to continue living in the stone age.

[20:54:14] <BenoitRen> Since when was not wanting multi-user stone age?

[20:54:22] <BenoitRen> Multi-user is stone age!

[20:54:30] * DeadYak falls over laughing

[20:54:32] <stpere> did you saw my reply?

[20:54:33] <oco> any idea why i have "error starting "/bin/sh" error = 1" when netbooting ?

[20:54:34] <duaneb> BenoitRen, go back to dos

[20:54:37] <ThomHolwerda> BenoitRen: personal question

[20:54:42] <ThomHolwerda> BenoitRen: how old are you?

[20:54:45] <ThomHolwerda> im always curuous

[20:54:48] <ThomHolwerda> curious*

[20:54:49] <BenoitRen> duaneb: Before DOS, there was UNIX. Multi-user.

[20:54:56] <BenoitRen> ThomHolwerda: 22.

[20:55:01] <Monni> before DOS there was CP/M ;)

[20:55:05] <xcasex>  /server irc.slashdot.org <--- take a hint

[20:55:12] <duaneb> Before unix, there was single user.

[20:55:22] <BenoitRen> In which system?

[20:55:25] <MichaelHenry> ddewlbofh: Not saying you are wrong, just there are SOME instances where it hinders....

[20:55:34] <xcasex> before the self hosting article there were less trolls :p

[20:55:38] <duaneb> BenoitRen, any...?

[20:55:48] <MichaelHenry> Not everytime because the good in this case does outway the bad

[20:55:52] <stpere> xcasex: definitelu

[20:55:55] <stpere> y*

[20:56:01] <DeadYak> duaneb: technically, MULTICS and its friends in the mainframe world were multiuser time share also

[20:56:03] *** HeTo has joined #haiku

[20:56:16] <duaneb> DeadYak, nobody actually USED mulitcs :P

[20:56:20] <duaneb> MULTICS*

[20:56:23] <stpere> I just don't see what prevent Benoit from sharing a unique account

[20:56:24] <ddew|bofh> MichaelHenry: i totally agree, in some instances it can do more harm than good. but in general it's a good thing and suggesting otherwise is both misleading and potentially harmful

[20:56:25] <DeadYak> duaneb: OS/360 then

[20:56:30] <DeadYak> duaneb: or VAX/VMS

[20:56:41] <DeadYak> duaneb: if you're going to tell me no one used those, then you're deluding yourself

[20:56:50] <BenoitRen> If I'm going to only use one account, the multi-user system could just as well not be there.

[20:56:59] <duaneb> DeadYak, fair enough

[20:57:08] <ddew|bofh> i ran VMS on my alpha, damn that os is trixy :)

[20:57:09] <stpere> it's there for the 75% of those who will want it

[20:57:41] <stpere> whatever other percentage it will be

[20:57:45] <MichaelHenry> ddewlbofh: I did try to tell them that because I would prefer a seatbelt over airbags anyday. A seatbelt saved my life a couple of times.

[20:57:48] <stpere> I don'T care

[20:57:48] <Monni> 100% of the people need only single account on each single machine ;)

[20:57:49] <BenoitRen> People don't want multiple accounts. They want to turn on their computer and get to work.

[20:58:06] <stpere> replace People, by you

[20:58:09] <BenoitRen> My family has never wanted multiple accounts.

[20:58:11] <MichaelHenry> 95 had multiple accounts

[20:58:12] <xcasex> i'd want multiuser, and i can wait on it.

[20:58:47] <BenoitRen> MichaelHenry: It was something optional. By default, it's single-user.

[20:58:56] <stpere> you can always use a shared account and log in it automatically

[20:59:07] <stpere> takes a few minutes to setup

[20:59:24] <oco> haiku will be single user until you add other accounts, no ?

[20:59:34] <ddew|bofh> come to think of it, having haiku being multi-user even for an r1 release wouldn't be crap

[20:59:53] <ddew|bofh> would make screwing up the system harder :)

[21:00:10] <MichaelHenry> is the multi user gonna look like the zeta log in screen in 1.5

[21:00:20] <BenoitRen> I don't want this multi-user shit where I have to log in as root just to make some changes which some developer figured were administrative.

[21:00:29] <BenoitRen> I want to be the master of my own computer.

[21:00:33] <duaneb> BenoitRen, seriously, go back to windows

[21:00:42] <duaneb> dos*

[21:00:43] <BenoitRen> duaneb: I'm already using it. :P

[21:00:51] <BenoitRen> duaneb: No, DOS doesn't suit my needs.

[21:00:53] <Monni> Vista multi-user crap doesn't even let administrator do "administrative" tasks ;)

[21:00:53] <duaneb> because that's what you're describing

[21:01:04] <duaneb> single user system where you can fuck up EVERYTHING

[21:01:07] <BenoitRen> duaneb: Win9x lets me do what I want.

[21:01:14] <duaneb> BenoitRen, then stop complaining

[21:01:17] <MichaelHenry> BenoitRen: I agree with that, but set your users up as root or admin and all is done

[21:01:20] <BenoitRen> It's /my computer/. Let me fuck up what /I/ want.

[21:01:27] <MichaelHenry> that's what 9x did

[21:01:30] <DeadYak> have fun with worms and trojans

[21:01:40] 

[21:01:45] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: I've never had worms and trojans because I have a clue.

[21:01:52] <ThomHolwerda> this discussion is like osnews in real time

[21:01:54] <ThomHolwerda> awesome

[21:01:55] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: that you know of.

[21:01:55] <duaneb> BenoitRen, good for you

[21:01:58] <stpere> ok, that your choice, but let other choose otherwise!

[21:01:58] * ThomHolwerda gets the popcorn

[21:02:01] <Monni> yay

[21:02:06] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: I've actually scanned my system. NOTHING.

[21:02:16] <oco> ThomHolwerda :-)

[21:02:17] <DeadYak> then you're obviously unaware that worms are capable of hiding themselves from scans

[21:02:30] <DeadYak> especially once they can hook into the kernel

[21:02:35] <DeadYak> which is laughably trivial on win95

[21:02:35] <duaneb> BenoitRen, good. what are you here for?

[21:02:38] <MichaelHenry> ThomHolwerda: shame on you :D

[21:02:43] <duaneb> haiku != windows

[21:02:48] <duaneb> (thank god)

[21:02:49] <Monni> IE 8 safety stuff is fun... doesn't let me even open Windows Update.... that's ultimate safety IMO...

[21:02:56] <ThomHolwerda> well, if its single user he likes

[21:03:03] <ThomHolwerda> haiku is the place to be for now

[21:03:12] <MichaelHenry> or Open Gem

[21:03:16] <ThomHolwerda> amiga

[21:03:17] <MichaelHenry> GEM

[21:03:22] <duaneb> ...or he could only use the root account...

[21:03:23] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: Get over yourself. Just because Win95 is old doens't mean it's easily infected by remote.

[21:03:26] <ddew|bofh> and since he's a win95 user the frequent crashing should help him feel right at home :P

[21:03:30] <MichaelHenry> Freedos with Seal

[21:03:31] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: speak for yourself.

[21:03:34] <stpere> BenoitRen : we did show you ways you could get the behaviour you want and you still argue..

[21:03:40] * ThomHolwerda high fives ddew|bofh

[21:04:01] <stpere> we cannot change a thing about Win95 here

[21:04:07] <stpere> it's totally pointless

[21:04:07] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: if you want a completely single user OS so badly, write your own.

[21:04:08] <MichaelHenry> aw not ThomHolwerda 95 didn't crash that often with me

[21:04:15] <MichaelHenry> not = now

[21:04:22] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: I don't use IE. I use SeaMonkey, a secure web browser. Infections have to go through the browser, as 95 does't run network services like RPC etc.

[21:04:30] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[21:04:36] <stpere> I must be on his ignore list

[21:04:40] <MichaelHenry> DeadYak:OpenGEM already done

[21:04:41] <stpere> :P

[21:04:43] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: if you think there are no exploit bugs in Seamonkey, then you're kidding yourself.

[21:04:55] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: you don't have to be running a remote service to get hacked via a bug in an app.

[21:04:55] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: They get patched.

[21:04:58] <DeadYak> lol

[21:05:00] <oco> maybe we should add an haiku_off_topic channel :-)

[21:05:01] <DeadYak> the ones that are known.

[21:05:08] <stpere> oco: : definitely

[21:05:12] <MichaelHenry> I thought seamonkey couldn't run on 95

[21:05:13] <ThomHolwerda> i thought win95 ran 95 instances of telnet, figuring that's where the name came from

[21:05:27] <BenoitRen> MichaelHenry: It does.

[21:05:29] <stpere> #haiku-offtopic

[21:05:32] <duaneb> BenoitRen, that's not the point

[21:05:49] <MichaelHenry> oco: nah this is fun

[21:05:51] <Monni> 95 in it's name means number of bugs... so 2000 in Windoze 2k means it has quite more bugs than Windoze 95 :)

[21:05:59] <MichaelHenry> lol

[21:06:09] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: And how is that code going to reach my app, eh?

[21:06:23] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: via the socket connection it just opened to hit the web server?

[21:06:41] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: the way almost every remote app exploit works?

[21:06:55] <DeadYak> if you think the contents of that web page came across magically over the ether, you're kidding yourself.

[21:06:56] <oco> MichaelHerny : fun, but offtopic

[21:06:57] <Monni> just like the build number increases quite a lot with each new OS version... that pretty much means how much they did fsck up until getting it to barely run...

[21:06:58] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: It sure didn't work on me.

[21:07:01] <ddew|bofh> seriously, have we been invaded by some slashdot trolls or what? all windoze and M$. just regurgitating old, tired crap

[21:07:07] <DeadYak> whatever.

[21:07:08] <DeadYak> I'm done.

[21:07:12] <DeadYak> keep living in your fairy world.

[21:07:21] <BenoitRen> ddew|bofh: You have anti-Win9x fanboys to blame for that.

[21:07:31] <MichaelHenry> oco: yeah, but it they take it over there, then that's where everybody would go lol

[21:07:35] <stpere> BenoitRen: ok, in one sentence, summarize your point

[21:07:40] *** pyCube has joined #haiku

[21:07:46] <ddew|bofh> don't like windows? then don't use it, there's no need to pollute the airwaves with your tired ramblings

[21:07:47] <BenoitRen> Every time I mention Win95 it's ZOMG YOU SUCK WIN9X LOLOLOLOL HAHAHAHHAAAAAA

[21:08:13] <stpere> ok, then why don't join #win95 .. their fan clubs is there

[21:08:15] <ddew|bofh> we've given you valid arguments, what more do you ask for?

[21:08:20] <stpere> Haiku won't be like Win95. Period.

[21:08:38] <MichaelHenry> I thought Haiku was gonna be like Beos

[21:08:45] <dr_Evil> my windows 2000 is better than your win95

[21:08:46] <pyCube> fwiw, windows is pretty shitty

[21:09:07] <pyCube> tired rambling though it may be

[21:09:11] *** genkie has joined #haiku

[21:09:14] *** BenoitRen_ has joined #haiku

[21:09:16] <ddew|bofh> pyCube: fine, but what's the point of rambling about it? it's not gonna change anything is it

[21:09:27] <MichaelHenry> oco: do you have a binary build of Iconomatic?

[21:09:29] <pyCube> ddew|bofh: specifically to irritate you

[21:09:34] <MichaelHenry> does anybody?

[21:09:40] <dr_Evil> nstalled in October 2003, running since then :)

[21:09:45] <BenoitRen_> stpere: Which point? There are several.

[21:09:50] <Monni> every OS after Windows 95 has been partially written in Basic... with Outlook 98 installed, you could actually hit CTRL-Break to suspend whole desktop...

[21:09:57] <ddew|bofh> pyCube: i'm not irritated, just trying to understand what the point of whining about something is

[21:10:01] <stpere> BenoitRen_: what improvement in haiku do you want?

[21:10:04] <oco> MichaelHenry : probably as i have already compiled haiku...

[21:10:08] <stpere> it's #haiku if you didn't noticed

[21:10:14] <pyCube> ddew|bofh: to cause you to ramble on about other peoples ramblings

[21:10:17] <geist> wow

[21:10:19] <MichaelHenry> does it work under Beos?

[21:10:23] <MichaelHenry> oco

[21:10:27] <ThomHolwerda> dr_Evil: my xp is bettarrr than your 2000!!1!

[21:10:29] <ddew|bofh> pyCube: and that accomplishes what?

[21:10:41] <pyCube> ddew|bofh: you to ramble

[21:10:46] <pyCube> er, co-ramble

[21:10:53] <ddew|bofh> pyCube: and what does that give you?

[21:11:01] <Monni> my MS-DOS 1.0 is better than any of your operating systems... simple and doesn't crash... no bloat either ;)

[21:11:04] <pyCube> ddew|bofh: much entertainment

[21:11:09] <pyCube> or not

[21:11:12] <BenoitRen_> stpere: Haiku seems mostly fine for me. Only wish there were more drivers. But that's not Haiku's fault. All I want is for Haiku not get infected by the tired multi-user shit that Linux already is.

[21:11:21] <BenoitRen_> *not to

[21:11:23] <pyCube> i just feel like typing atm

[21:11:26] <ThomHolwerda> Monni: and you can run Keen. you have a point there with ms-dos being the best.

[21:11:49] <Monni> running MS-DOS 1.0 in my Athlon XP is amazingly fast...

[21:11:50] <ddew|bofh> pyCube: then i'm glad to help

[21:11:51] <MichaelHenry> oco: does the binary build work with Beos?

[21:11:54] <HeTo> I doubt you can run Keen on MS-DOS 1.0

[21:12:16] <pyCube> however, windows is pretty stinky

[21:12:23] <oco> if you build for the BeOS target yes

[21:12:32] <BenoitRen_> stpere: I don't believe multi-user is the way to go. Run applications as users. Assign /them/ permissions. Don't restrict the user.

[21:12:52] <BenoitRen_> The system should stop rogue applications. Not user permissions.

[21:12:57] <MichaelHenry> do you know anybody that has? oco?

[21:13:04] <duaneb> BenoitRen, what about rogue users?

[21:13:28] <BenoitRen_> duaneb: Physical access = PC dead, remember?

[21:13:37] <oco> MichaelHenry : i have one, build about six months ago

[21:13:45] <stpere> a dead pc isn't that bad..

[21:13:48] <BenoitRen_> Stop people from getting at your machine. That's all.

[21:14:04] <duaneb> BenoitRen_, there's a reason why EVERY modern operating system has multiuser

[21:14:05] <MichaelHenry> can you DCC it to me

[21:14:09] <stpere> but I wish someone with ssh/telnet access couldn't erase everything:)

[21:14:28] <BenoitRen_> duaneb: Mostly because of the old times where computers were mostly used in business with mainframes, servers and all.

[21:14:31] <oco> MichaelHenry : DCC would be difficult because of firewalling

[21:14:33] <stpere> oh, you will tell me it's not desktop centric

[21:14:35] <stpere> well

[21:14:47] <MichaelHenry> beshare?

[21:14:52] <MichaelHenry> or email?

[21:14:57] <duaneb> BenoitRen_, troll somewhere else

[21:15:06] <BenoitRen_> duaneb: Yawn.

[21:15:18] <stpere> BenoitRen_: we created #haiku-offtopic specifically for you  :)

[21:15:19] <HeTo> and I wish my little brother can't do anything that affects my user account, when he uses my computer

[21:15:20] <oco> my ISP has a special service for this

[21:15:42] <BenoitRen_> By the way, my home network is behind a router. Extra protection. :P I don't even have malware on WinXP.

[21:15:51] <HeTo> there's a limit of how much people know how to do, as well

[21:15:54] <oco> MichaelHenry : it is compiled for BONE

[21:16:05] <MichaelHenry> i use zeta

[21:16:16] <BenoitRen_> stpere: I'm not stupid. I'd go there and then nobody is there to talk. Come on.

[21:16:23] *** Monni has left #Haiku

[21:16:48] <stpere> you prefer to be flamed?

[21:16:53] <duaneb> BenoitRen_, By god, you're right!

[21:16:59] <stpere> hmm, interesting point of view

[21:17:04] <BenoitRen_> stpere: As if I'm not going to be flamed in off-topic.

[21:17:11] <stpere> err.. no

[21:17:14] *** AnEvilYak has joined #haiku

[21:17:16] <stpere> there is almost nobody there :)

[21:17:19] <duaneb> BenoitRen_, you've caught us. I guess we'll all have to listen to you rant here...

[21:17:31] <oco> MichaelHenry : http://dl.free.fr/jh5WOA2sZ/Icon-O-Matic.zip

[21:17:47] <MichaelHenry> thanksssssssssssssssssssssss

[21:17:48] <BenoitRen_> stpere: And I'm already used to be flamed by close-minded individuals over my choice of OS.

[21:18:09] <stpere> so, it's an habit of you.. I see

[21:18:25] <stpere> which channel will you go to troll tomorrow?& #ubuntu?

[21:18:32] <BenoitRen_> Not really. But every time I mention it, people start getting rather edgy as if it's a religion or something.

[21:18:33] <stpere> then, which, skyos?

[21:18:34] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku

[21:18:41] <stpere> you can pratically copy paste your rant

[21:18:46] <duaneb> BenoitRen_, if you choose to piss people off, you will get flamed. Deal with it.

[21:18:47] <stpere> replacing your target os

[21:18:50] <BenoitRen_> stpere: Fuck you. I don't troll channels for a living.

[21:19:12] <duaneb> You can't expect to come to #haiku, say 'you're doing it wrong. Do it like windows xp', and not expect to get flamed

[21:19:26] *** _Megaf has quit IRC

[21:19:28] <stpere> we choose to invest time in this project.. remember

[21:19:35] <geist> come on people

[21:19:36] <stpere> nobody is paid.. so we do believe in it

[21:19:37] <geist> chill out

[21:19:39] <stpere> ok

[21:19:42] <BenoitRen_> duaneb: Actually, if the individuals had some respect, they'd respond in kind instead of being an ashole.

[21:20:05] <stpere> sorry geist

[21:20:11] <duaneb> BenoitRen_, I did respond in kind. That's why I was an asshole.

[21:21:06] <BenoitRen_> duaneb: You don't get it.

[21:21:10] <BenoitRen_> duaneb: I'll show you.

[21:21:13] <duaneb> BenoitRen_ obviously

[21:21:19] <duaneb> tell me on #haiku-offtopic

[21:22:23] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC

[21:22:26] <BenoitRen_> I say: "I'm running Windows 95. To me, it's when Windows was at its best." Then <ddew|bofh>	win9x is EVIL

[21:22:33] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku

[21:23:13] <ddew|bofh> BenoitRen_: if that's what set you off you need some serious psychiatric help

[21:23:15] <BenoitRen_> Followed by (and before) by zomg no proper multi-tasking it crashes, reboot lolol.

[21:23:29] <BenoitRen_> And then "you're talking out of your ass".

[21:23:44] * JonathanThompson meows psychotically into the channel

[21:23:47] <duaneb> <BenoitRen> Since when was not wanting multi-user stone age? <BenoitRen> Multi-user is stone age!

[21:23:50] <geist> yeah, totally

[21:24:01] <BenoitRen_> ddew|bofh: Oh, not only that. It's the talking out of my ass and such.

[21:24:14] <DeadYak> I liked the part about threatening to hit the first developer that implemented multi-user with a mallet myself

[21:24:15] * stpere is hesitating between putting Benoit on /ignore or continue reading :)

[21:24:23] <ddew|bofh> BenoitRen_: well if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. recognize that saying?

[21:24:28] <BenoitRen_> duaneb: That was /after/ it was said that single-user was stone-age! Ohh, but let's ignore that, shall we?

[21:24:50] <duaneb> BenoitRen_, but it is

[21:24:51] <BenoitRen_> ddew|bofh: I was here to discuss Haiku, and I namedrop my OS, and you people assault me.

[21:24:52] * geist threatens to take off and nuke the site from orbit

[21:24:55] <duaneb> whatever

[21:24:59] <BenoitRen_> duaneb: Yeah right.

[21:25:14] <BenoitRen_> Just read scrollback.

[21:25:20] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[21:25:22] <duaneb> BenoitRen_, let's just accept that we have different visions of the desktop, k?

[21:25:31] <BenoitRen_> duaneb: That seems reasonable.

[21:25:36] <ddew|bofh> BenoitRen_: well you can't expect everyone to treat you holy cow with the same amount of repsect as you do

[21:25:39] <MichaelHenry> thank you

[21:25:43] *** BenoitRen has quit IRC

[21:26:07] <BenoitRen_> ddew|bofh: Just a minimum of respect would have been swell. I don't expect holy stuff.

[21:26:08] * geist wonders if it's over for now...

[21:26:22] *** mats has quit IRC

[21:26:28] <geist> i think it's degraded to half hearted slaps now

[21:26:30] <DeadYak> geist: how goes the quest of epic hard disk destruction?

[21:26:31] <MichaelHenry> Well, Thom did you run out of popcorn ;)

[21:26:33] <ddew|bofh> BenoitRen_: it would've been nice, sure. sadly that's not what you got

[21:26:42] <geist> DeadYak: got a whole box of em

[21:26:49] <DeadYak> geist: destroyed or waiting to be?

[21:26:50] <geist> alll full of little zeros

[21:26:54] <DeadYak> ah

[21:26:58] <duaneb> ddew|bofh, drop it

[21:27:00] <geist> nah, most work, I just wanted to wipe the data

[21:27:05] <DeadYak> oh

[21:27:11] <MichaelHenry> Hey DeadYak, what program is best to create bfs partitions?

[21:27:16] <DeadYak> I thought you meant old ones to disassemble, guess I misunderstood last night :)

[21:27:21] <DeadYak> MichaelHenry: mkbfs?

[21:27:26] *** cps1967 has joined #haiku

[21:27:29] <geist> my limit was to toss any disk that isn't in use and <20GB

[21:27:36] <geist> and that damn 40GB drive that's so loud i'll never use it again

[21:27:43] <BenoitRen_> MichaelHenry: I used fdisk from a Linux LiveCD.

[21:27:45] <DeadYak> hahaha

[21:27:46] <geist> bad bearing in te spindle I think

[21:27:47] <DeadYak> who was it made by?

[21:27:48] <HeTo> MichaelHenry: DriveSetup

[21:27:49] <DeadYak> for reference

[21:27:50] <DeadYak> oh.

[21:27:51] <DeadYak> never mind.

[21:27:57] <MichaelHenry> tryed drivesetup

[21:28:05] *** cps1967 has left #haiku

[21:28:08] <MichaelHenry> my problems is a 200 gb harddrive

[21:28:17] <DeadYak> geist: I dunno, my old MFM disk in my 286 has never been beaten for noise level :)

[21:28:19] <MichaelHenry> about 100 gig free

[21:28:22] <geist> i'm really sensitive to high pitched stuff, and it just sits there with a whine at ear piercing level

[21:28:34] <MichaelHenry> drivesetup crashes

[21:28:36] <HeTo> BeOS doesn't support 48-bit LBA AFAIK

[21:28:40] <BenoitRen_> Does Haiku support MP3 and/or MIDI? When I tried playing some music, I didn't hear anything.

[21:28:52] <MichaelHenry> already has three parts on it

[21:28:55] <MichaelHenry> partititons

[21:29:10] <BenoitRen_> And I think my sound card was detected because real-time sound was on.

[21:29:22] <MichaelHenry> wanted to format and initilize the rest for file storage

[21:29:25] <BenoitRen_> Sound card is a SoundBlaster 16 PnP PCI.

[21:29:32] *** mats has joined #haiku

[21:29:33] *** vbmithr has quit IRC

[21:29:38] <ddew|bofh> that ought to be well supported

[21:29:55] <ddew|bofh> did you install the OSS addon?

[21:30:09] <HeTo> BenoitRen_: a real SoundBlaster or one of those "compatibles"?

[21:30:15] <BenoitRen_> ddew|bofh: Are you talking to me or MichaelHenry?

[21:30:18] <ddew|bofh> that messed up the sound on my card, when i removed it everything worked fine

[21:30:21] <BenoitRen_> HeTo: A real one from Creative.

[21:30:24] <ddew|bofh> BenoitRen_: you

[21:30:40] <BenoitRen_> ddew|bofh: I didn't add anything. I downloaded an MP3 and then a MIDI and opened them.

[21:30:41] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC

[21:31:01] <ddew|bofh> BenoitRen_: so you didn't build the image yourself?

[21:31:27] <BenoitRen_> ddew|bofh: No, I downloaded a raw HDD image of Haiku and DDed it to my Haiku partition.

[21:31:40] *** AndrevS has joined #haiku

[21:31:43] <ddew|bofh> does the card show up in media preferences?

[21:32:18] <BenoitRen_> ddew|bofh: I don't know, I didn't really know where to look. But I saw that real-time sound was on.

[21:32:46] * BenoitRen_ would expect Haiku to complain if sound didn't work

[21:32:48] <ddew|bofh> in the left pane, is there an entry for your card?

[21:33:10] <BenoitRen_> I don't think there was. There was Sound, Mixer, and Video.

[21:33:28] <ddew|bofh> then it probably didn't detect your card

[21:33:37] <BenoitRen_> Damn.

[21:33:40] <ddew|bofh> is it pci or onboard?

[21:33:44] <BenoitRen_> PCI.

[21:34:25] <ddew|bofh> sounds like it isn't being detected for some reason.

[21:35:36] <BenoitRen_> I'll look more carefully next time I load Haiku. Oh well.

[21:36:05] <BenoitRen_> Lastly, when is it planned to have DriveSetup support mounting FAT partitions?

[21:36:50] <BenoitRen_> Or anything else than BeFS? It seems to only support that at the moment.

[21:37:32] <HeTo> I think FAT support was added back a couple of days ago

[21:37:39] <duaneb> it was?

[21:37:41] <duaneb> damnit

[21:37:51] <oco> yes i think

[21:38:08] <DeadYak> duaneb: mmlr fixed that driver a few days ago

[21:38:11] <DeadYak> er week ago

[21:38:20] <BenoitRen_> I downloaded a nightly just two days ago.

[21:38:33] <BenoitRen_> So I guess it should be in. :)

[21:39:01] <ddew|bofh> did it show up in the mount menu?

[21:39:24] *** Stargater has quit IRC

[21:39:28] <oco> http://dev.haiku-os.org/changeset/24987

[21:39:40] <BenoitRen_> ddew|bofh: I didn't check.

[21:39:53] <ddew|bofh> BenoitRen_: check that next time :)

[21:40:00] <BenoitRen_> ddew|bofh: I will. :)

[21:40:35] <oco> but i think you can easily mount only BFS by design in the tracker for now

[21:41:40] <duaneb> is haiku compiled with optimizations?

[21:42:49] *** Wiss has quit IRC

[21:42:58] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC

[21:45:05] <DHowett> FAT was fixed, iso9660 was fixed, nfs is being worked on. BFS always worked.

[21:45:38] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku

[21:46:04] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC

[21:46:57] <BenoitRen_> DHowett: nfs? Do you mean ntfs?

[21:47:16] <ddew|bofh> Network File System

[21:47:21] *** Wiss has joined #haiku

[21:47:28] <BenoitRen_> Yeah, I looked it up. Wasn't sure.

[21:47:40] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku

[21:47:59] *** BenoitRen_ is now known as BenoitRen

[21:50:33] *** Kernel86 has joined #Haiku

[21:51:23] <emitrax> https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5250524297872886275&postID=2090091199720375607&pli=1

[21:54:03] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC

[21:54:46] * JonathanThompson laughs at the scrollback he mostly didn't catch live, and interjects that BeOS 5.03 and before is easily killed by a bad application that decides to delete an area at random which could be from any other team, *including* the kernel

[21:55:25] <ddew|bofh> which is an argument _for_ multi-user :)

[21:55:46] <JonathanThompson> And all the underlying protections thereof usually associated with it.

[21:56:10] <JonathanThompson> Another argument for it, oddly enough, is for personalization where the people are notably different in vision or other capabilities.

[21:56:34] <JonathanThompson> If someone is colorblind, they're not likely to be happy with all the settings of someone that has full color vision, and vice-versa.

[21:57:01] <ddew|bofh> wonder how multi-user could be added without messing up the r5 compat

[21:59:09] <HeTo> apps _should_ save their settings and such under ~/config, so R5 compatibility _shouldn't_ be a problem AFAIK

[21:59:29] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku

[21:59:39] <DeadYak> HeTo: in theory, yes, in practice no app's ever been written without essentially having root privileges

[21:59:42] <ddew|bofh> problem is that not all apps do that

[22:02:57] <BenoitRen> ddew|bofh: Wasn't JonathanThompson talking about an application? How is that an argument for multi-user?

[22:03:07] *** Zevs has joined #haiku

[22:03:33] <JonathanThompson> Any single application can kill BeOS dead due to a hole in the system that allows it to kill any area owned by anyone by anything.

[22:03:43] *** duaneb has quit IRC

[22:03:47] <JonathanThompson> Windows 95 also has plenty of holes like that in critical data structures.

[22:03:58] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: destroying some of the app_server's ports or sems would do the trick nicely also

[22:04:07] <JonathanThompson> True.

[22:04:11] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku

[22:04:17] <BenoitRen> So how is that an argument for multi-user? I'd think that it's an argument for closing the hole...

[22:04:24] <JonathanThompson> But, that may not cause the entire system to go tits up.

[22:04:45] <ddew|bofh> BenoitRen: closing the hole is easily fixed by implementing user permissions

[22:04:50] <JonathanThompson> All runs as a single user, meaning it's assumed that that's a desirable ability to access.

[22:04:55] <aroman> w00t! I'm in GSOC working for Haiku on Zeroconf!

[22:05:03] <dr_Evil> JonathanThompson thats not really a hole. the default single user is root, and thus can do so

[22:05:27] <tqh> aroman, congrats!

[22:05:29] <BenoitRen> ddew|bofh: But the hole itself still exists, it's just shielded, in that case.

[22:05:30] <JonathanThompson> Does it make sense for a user-space application to be able to rip something out from under the kernel itself, dr_Evil?

[22:05:36] <dr_Evil> there may be holes at various places, but that one is by design

[22:06:05] <aroman> anyways... gtg now... I'll be back later

[22:06:16] <dr_Evil> root is allowed to write to arbitrary memory or harddisk space, even in linux

[22:06:56] <BenoitRen> Isn't that where memory protection comes in?

[22:06:56] <JonathanThompson> So as root, a user-space application has no problem releasing the memory mapped area or changing the permissions of it of the kernel itself?

[22:06:59] <tqh> you mean baron is :)

[22:07:25] <JonathanThompson> Windows 95 has it in a limited sense, even more limited in many critical structures than BeOS, BenoitRen.

[22:07:57] <JonathanThompson> There's also what's known as the Win16 Mutex, which, if held too long by a misbehaving application, can bring down the entire system in Windows 95.

[22:08:26] <JonathanThompson> All it takes is for that application to get stuck in a loop too long, and the system (at least the GUI part) is permanently lost.

[22:08:40] <JonathanThompson> (Unless the application comes out of that loop and isn't killed first)

[22:09:18] <dr_Evil> JonathanThompson the memory area is protected against accidental modification, but a user with root rights (baron) can do *anything*

[22:09:32] <JonathanThompson> And the Windows 95 "Multiuser" support only really applied to preferences: you couldn't do anything to secure one user's stuff from anothers.

[22:11:15] <dr_Evil> well, i need to leave, businesstrip early tomorrow. good night

[22:11:18] <JonathanThompson> So in the future of Haiku, most applications will run as other than root, so it won't be an issue for it affecting the kernel, BUT they'll still be allowed to twiddle with bits inside the same userspace?

[22:11:20] <ddew|bofh> nn

[22:11:40] *** dr_Evil has quit IRC

[22:13:52] <tqh> hmm, editing cpp files in Abiword, not what I wanted.

[22:14:17] <pyCube> i heard that it is dumb

[22:18:38] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC

[22:20:04] *** DeadYak has quit IRC

[22:23:02] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC

[22:27:29] *** petterhj has joined #haiku

[22:28:32] <MichaelHenry> DeakYak?

[22:29:16] <tqh> he went offline

[22:29:27] <MichaelHenry> yeah saw that too late

[22:30:02] <MichaelHenry> managed to configure wget, wanted him to see these errors on make

[22:30:25] <BenoitRen> I really don't get why memory protection is touted when it doesn't prevent root from making dangerous changes.

[22:30:49] <pyCube> um.. huh?

[22:30:54] <ThomHolwerda> uh

[22:31:10] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666

[22:31:13] <ThomHolwerda> memory protection has NOTHING to do with the root thing

[22:31:38] <ThomHolwerda> memory protection is about stopping one application from writing stuff to a place in memory where another app is storing vital data

[22:31:50] <BenoitRen> Like the kernel, I would think.

[22:31:51] <ThomHolwerda> meanign, they dont crash.

[22:31:59] <ThomHolwerda> the kernel runs in kernel space

[22:32:20] <ThomHolwerda> seperate address space, not accessible by userspace stuff (your apps)

[22:32:29] <pyCube> i dont know why paperclips are touted when they dont even stop my car from running out of fuel

[22:32:45] <BenoitRen> Then why can a root app screw with it anyway? It was said above that it's possible.

[22:32:58] <tqh> someone needs full access, and that is the root

[22:32:59] <ThomHolwerda> ...?

[22:33:05] <geist> because a root app has full access to the system

[22:33:22] <BenoitRen> Full access to files, but memory too?

[22:33:23] <ThomHolwerda> yes, but root still has no access to kernelspace, it all goes through the kernel

[22:33:29] <BenoitRen> "BeOS 5.03 and before is easily killed by a bad application that decides to delete an area at random which could be from any other team, *including* the kernel"

[22:33:41] <tqh> it's like having a safe, if no one has access to the contents in the safe it's no use.

[22:34:10] <DHowett> tqh: But then you get into quantum physics and realize that EVERYONE (in an alternate parallel version) has access to the safe!

[22:34:13] <DHowett> :)

[22:34:37] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC

[22:34:46] <geist> BenoitRen: beos always had poor security, since the user is running as root

[22:35:12] <geist> there were a few attempts at be to enable actual multi user support (even if it was only a single user at a time)

[22:35:17] <geist> but it never made it into a release

[22:35:24] <geist> company died before it shipped

[22:35:46] <MauriceK> damn, why does haikuware only provide gcc2 binaries?

[22:36:10] *** vbmithr has joined #haiku

[22:36:13] <geist> so basically beos runs with user as superuser, which is effectively the same as running win2k as admin (which everyone does anyway)

[22:36:13] <MauriceK> i thought it were some more people here using gcc4, but still most of available stuff is gcc2 only :(

[22:36:39] <HeTo> except WinNT admin isn't the superuser

[22:36:55] <geist> pretty close to it

[22:37:00] <HeTo> it's somewhat less privileged than SYSTEM, for example

[22:37:03] <DHowett> Though with an easy security rights elevation he can run as SYSTEM

[22:37:07] <geist> right

[22:37:15] *** Paradoxon has quit IRC

[22:37:34] <geist> yeah, the rights model of VMS/NT doesn't directly match the simple unix model

[22:38:12] <HeTo> but the case JonathanThompson was referring to was that you could do delete_page() (not sure of the real name of the function) on _any_ page that exists

[22:38:23] <geist> yep

[22:38:41] <geist> beos had a bad design flaw as far as I'm concerned by having single namespaces for all the ids

[22:39:00] <geist> all sems in the system are from a single table, all areas, all threads, all processes (seperate tables, but one per type)

[22:39:07] <HeTo> but even so, there is memory protection in BeOS, since you can't just go and read or write, say 0x30000000, even if that happens to be a valid address in some team's address space

[22:39:08] <geist> thus you can start making up semaphore ids and deleting them

[22:39:47] <geist> from a malicious attack point of view it's about the same as a user running as admin on windows, since you can always just go poke into the address space

[22:39:48] *** DHowett has left #haiku

[22:39:48] <HeTo> (unless, of course, that's a valid address in your own team's address space)

[22:40:01] <geist> however, it is worse in that you can accidentally delete something good

[22:40:18] <geist> bad code can pick a sem id and nuke it from another process, for example

[22:40:22] *** MauriceK has quit IRC

[22:40:58] <ThomHolwerda> damn i need a cheap server 2003 license

[22:41:42] <HeTo> ThomHolwerda: isn't the web version license cost quite close to XP Pro (or at least Vista Ultimate :-)?

[22:42:04] <ThomHolwerda> i mean a second hand license somewhere that's not used

[22:42:18] <geist> you want a five finger discount from the sounds of it

[22:42:26] <ThomHolwerda> a what?

[22:42:41] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku

[22:42:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man

[22:42:46] <pyCube> heh

[22:43:13] <pyCube> a five torrent/serial/crack site discount

[22:43:54] *** Zevs has left #haiku

[22:44:13] *** ozy` has quit IRC

[22:45:31] <tqh> five finger discount is 'just taking it'

[22:45:55] <geist> specifically grabbing it off the shelf with your hand

[22:46:09] *** mats has quit IRC

[22:46:35] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku

[22:50:30] *** crash_ has joined #haiku

[22:51:13] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC

[22:52:03] <CIA-52> korli * r25092 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/app/Handler.cpp: don't try to archive BHandler::fName when it is null

[22:53:51] <BenoitRen> geist: Thanks for the explanation. I don't believe that a user running as root automatically means bad security, though.

[22:54:24] <BenoitRen> I mean, even root shouldn't be able to write to kernelspace, delete pages, and things like that.

[22:54:55] <BenoitRen> When I think of root, I think of the one that can access and modify all files, change all settings, and start all programs.

[22:55:19] <BenoitRen> Maybe my concept of root is ill-conceived.

[22:56:05] *** Darknesss has joined #haiku

[22:56:16] <pyCube> whats the time?

[22:56:31] * pyCube gets all 1986

[22:56:48] <HeTo> BenoitRen: there are /dev/mem and /dev/kmem on many Unix systems, root can write to kernel space using those

[22:57:06] *** petterhj has quit IRC

[22:57:33] <BenoitRen> HeTo: Okay. But why are those things there?

[22:58:48] <HeTo> because if it's your machine, shouldn't you be able to do anything?

[22:59:16] <BenoitRen> Well, yeah, but nothing should be able to write to the kernel.

[22:59:22] <HeTo> besides restricting something out by design just because you can't find use for that is bad design IMO

[22:59:46] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku

[23:00:05] <stpere> BenoitRen: didn't you said something like "it's my machine, I don't want to be root to do anything with it.." ? :)

[23:00:18] <stpere> it's not the exact words, I know

[23:00:23] <stpere> but it was along that line

[23:00:41] *** tarandus has quit IRC

[23:00:48] <BenoitRen> stpere: Yes, but in my mind that didn't include corrupting memory.

[23:01:08] <stpere> yes, I agree with you on that one, btw

[23:02:42] <pyCube> if you leave some rocks near your house and some dumbass kid walks by and decides to toss them through your window, is it a design flaw that the house didnt have rock proof windows and derockification machines prowling the perimeter? or is it simply a matter of dumbass kid with desctructive issues?

[23:03:57] <BenoitRen> I don't think you can compare a house with an operating system.

[23:04:11] <pyCube> dont oppress me

[23:04:37] <BenoitRen> Try a car analogy, maybe that'll work better. ;)

[23:04:50] <pyCube> ok

[23:05:19] <pyCube> does it have to be an analogy, or can i make a mere metaphorical reference?

[23:05:31] <miqlas> Hello!

[23:05:41] <BenoitRen> Whatever you think is best, I guess.

[23:05:45] <miqlas> Can somebody show me an screenshot about the Activitymonitor?

[23:06:07] <HeTo> BenoitRen: remember you could always add a kernel module that does the corrupting for you if you were root; OTOH memory protection already prevents accidents, so having /dev/mem does no harm

[23:06:35] <BenoitRen> HeTo: Good point.

[23:08:10] <mmu_man> Wiss http://code.google.com/soc/2008/haiku/about.html :)

[23:09:03] *** mmu_man changes topic to "Haiku has 5 projects on GSoC 2008 | http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/porters-dev/2008-January/000071.html | Haiku: http://haiku-os.org | Haiku@SCaLE 6x: http://haiku-os.org/conference/2008/scale-6x | Haiku@FOSDEM: http://www.haiku-os.org/conference/2008/fosdem_2008 | Haiku Tech Talk: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=236331448076587879 | IRC logs: http://echelog.matzon.dk/?haiku | Commits: http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/Open"

[23:09:20] <mmu_man> gahh clipped

[23:09:55] *** mmu_man changes topic to "Haiku | 5 projects on GSoC | http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/porters-dev/2008-January/000071.html | Haiku: http://haiku-os.org | Haiku@SCaLE 6x: http://haiku-os.org/conference/2008/scale-6x | Haiku@FOSDEM: http://www.haiku-os.org/conference/2008/fosdem_2008 | Haiku Tech Talk: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=236331448076587879 | IRC logs: http://echelog.matzon.dk/?haiku | Commits: http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/OpenBeOS"

[23:10:24] <mmu_man> miqlas http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_beos_activity_monitor.png in zeta

[23:14:37] <Wiss> mmu_man : yes I know :) It's really great :D

[23:14:56] <Wiss> I spoke on the haiku-fr channel, sorry ^^

[23:15:14] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku

[23:15:45] <Wiss> I wrote to bga, and now, I'll take my time on the 2 next week between Haiku and my cisco certifications learning

[23:15:48] <Wiss> :p

[23:18:50] <MindChild> I bloody hate templates

[23:22:48] *** tradewind has joined #haiku

[23:23:35] *** jiuda_D`arkness has quit IRC

[23:24:21] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku

[23:26:28] <miqlas> Thank You.

[23:26:37] *** genkie has quit IRC

[23:28:36] *** tqh has quit IRC

[23:29:16] *** BenoitRen has left #haiku

[23:30:21] *** korli has quit IRC

[23:32:07] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC

[23:32:37] <miqlas> Can i have a question? Why we need the activity_monitor?

[23:33:30] <MindChild> To monitor activity

[23:33:44] <miqlas> If somebody make this program, he waste his time. Why we don't use the SyX?

[23:33:52] <miqlas> http://bebits.com/app/69

[23:34:44] <miqlas> (And i know the developer of this program are Hungarian :)

[23:35:03] <miqlas> Then i want ask, why we need the Activity monitor?

[23:35:12] <HeTo> because the download and home page links are broken, and Activity Monitor already exists?

[23:35:51] <DeadYak> and because Haiku will have various data sources that didn't exist on BeOS for monitoring

[23:36:12] <miqlas> I have the SyX package. And i think 101 (the developer of the SyX and the tracker NewFS) will give the sources to the Haiku.

[23:37:06] <HeTo> still, it seems whatever duplicate effort there might be has already been done

[23:37:31] <HeTo> and I've understood Activity Monitor uses the Haiku layout system

[23:44:50] <mmu_man> miqlas I mailed onthe list with the url, and the NT-process manager clone also

[23:44:57] <mmu_man> the later didn't have sources

[23:45:10] <mmu_man> also, I thought SyX included sources, but I didn't find them in the pkg I had

[23:45:35] <mmu_man> if you can get them it should be possible to reuse parts of it to create new data sources :)

[23:47:03] *** MindChild has quit IRC

[23:48:14] <Thom_Holwerda> DeadYak: http://www.osnews.com/comics

[23:48:20] <Thom_Holwerda> thanks for the idea ;)

[23:49:22] <mmu_man> I guess I didn't get it

[23:49:34] <Kokito> LOL

[23:50:06] <miqlas> mmu_man, i try to connect to the author of the SyX. I try to ask: what is the license of the SyX, and if the license is not MIT can he change to MIT.

[23:50:28] <mmu_man> yes thanks

[23:50:35] <miqlas> No problemo.

[23:50:36] <mmu_man> I recall using it for some time in R5 :)

[23:50:54] *** _Lucretia__ has joined #haiku

[23:51:15] <HeTo> it's so funny you could have released the same comic about a year ago, replaced Kernel-based mode setting with app-level volume control, and Linux with Windows

[23:51:22] <miqlas> I know, the SyX is an very good app, with replicant support. And i know we have only few good developer, and if there is something good, maybe we can use...

[23:51:33] *** _Megaf has quit IRC

[23:51:45] <miqlas> Maybe we can use, and we need to try to use.

[23:51:52] <miqlas> Time is money.

[23:51:55] <mmu_man> HeTo that thing BeOS has been doing for 10 years ? :p

[23:52:20] <mmu_man> ah I suppose I just got it btw :)

[23:52:47] <HeTo> mmu_man: exactly :-)

[23:52:48] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[23:52:52] <mmu_man> though it's not really a problem depending on the OS, BeOS doesn't have that appart vesa

[23:53:02] <mmu_man> and accelerants do the mode setting

[23:53:11] <mmu_man> but then it doesn't have virutal consoles

[23:57:11] *** petterhj has joined #haiku

[23:57:28] <miqlas> I sent an email to 101.

[23:58:04] <miqlas> I hope he will answer. He long time ago not active developer on BeOS because some problems with the NewFS.

[23:58:58] *** Kokito changes topic to "Haiku: http://haiku-os.org | 5 projects on GSoC: http://www.haiku-os.org/news/2008-04-21/haiku_gets_five_students_spots_for_gsoc_2008 | Haiku@SCaLE 6x: http://haiku-os.org/conference/2008/scale-6x | Haiku@FOSDEM: http://www.haiku-os.org/conference/2008/fosdem_2008 | Haiku Tech Talk: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=236331448076587879 | IRC logs: http://echelog.matzon.dk/?haiku | Commits: http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/OpenBeOS"
top

   April 21, 2008  
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | >