April 19, 2008 
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | >
April 19, 2008 [00:00:14] <dos4gw> hi korli[00:03:00] <Technix> howdy all[00:03:06] <Poisson_Pilote> hi[00:08:36] <Begasus> hi korli[00:09:00] *** Anarchos has quit IRC[00:11:45] *** Haicube has quit IRC[00:16:14] *** TheNerd_ is now known as TheNerd[00:17:35] <duaneb> crap[00:18:43] *** HaikuwareUser has joined #Haiku[00:20:01] *** HaikuwareUser has quit IRC[00:20:08] <duaneb> see here: http://pasteall.com/view.php?p=83[00:21:24] <dos4gw> duaneb using ,[00:24:42] <dos4gw> (fread(x, 4, 1, file), *x)[00:24:45] <dos4gw> perhaps[00:24:53] *** stippi has quit IRC[00:25:02] <dos4gw> assuming x is 32 bit, and assuming this code is really valid[00:25:15] <dos4gw> it's probably way easier to use an inline function[00:25:33] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[00:27:16] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[00:27:53] *** Stargater has quit IRC[00:31:06] *** dos4gw has quit IRC[00:32:31] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[00:32:31] <Begasus> scummvm compiled and running inside Haiku ;)[00:33:43] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku[00:36:43] <{V}> Begasus, yay![00:37:34] <Begasus> ;)[00:38:56] <Begasus> so ... going down for today[00:39:00] <Begasus> g'night peeps[00:39:20] <stpere> night[00:39:37] <{V}> good night Begasus[00:39:37] *** Begasus has quit IRC[00:41:26] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[00:46:53] *** {V} has quit IRC[00:47:11] *** {V} has joined #haiku[00:48:46] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:52:36] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[00:55:31] <CIA-48> mmlr * r25033 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/tracker/FavoritesConfig.cpp:[00:55:31] <CIA-48> Remove doubled "count" in declaration. Fixes a "operation may be undefined"[00:55:31] <CIA-48> warning with GCC4.[01:02:36] *** slaad has joined #haiku[01:05:33] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[01:05:34] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[01:05:45] <CIA-48> mmlr * r25034 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/kits/game/chart/ChartRender.cpp:[01:05:45] <CIA-48> Remove the at least questionable b_sqrt() function and replace it with the[01:05:45] <CIA-48> normal sqrt(). The stated goal of the function was to avoid a dependency to[01:05:45] <CIA-48> the math library, which in our case does not apply anyway. This removes one[01:05:45] <CIA-48> case of broken strict aliasing rules...[01:06:34] <mmu_man> one less, lol[01:06:35] <mmu_man> how many ? :)[01:19:33] <CIA-48> julun * r25035 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/ServerApp.cpp:[01:19:33] <CIA-48> * no need to reply, as set_ui_color won't read it anyway[01:19:33] <CIA-48> Fixes some strage behavior (moving/disappearing text) in[01:19:33] <CIA-48> Appearance preflet while moving a color control chooser.[01:20:49] *** rdmr has quit IRC[01:22:50] *** Zenja has joined #haiku[01:23:29] <Zenja> Morning / evening.[01:23:34] <Zenja> OS scheduling question[01:23:47] <Zenja> Say i have normal priority thread waiting for semaphore.[01:23:55] <Zenja> Higher priority thread signals semaphore[01:24:24] <Zenja> Does the scheduler invoke the normal priority thread, or does it allow the higher priority thread to continue[01:24:44] <mmu_man> depends[01:24:51] <Zenja> This is a generic OS design question, not strictly related to how Haiku implements it.[01:25:13] <mmu_man> it depends if releasing the sem forces rescheduling or not[01:25:30] <Zenja> mmu_man: wouldn't the higher priority thread still get CPU time[01:25:35] <mmu_man> release_sem_etc() in BeOS has a B_DO_NOT_RESCHEDULE arg (for int handlers...)[01:26:24] <mmu_man> not sure[01:26:31] <Zenja> mmu_man: message ports use blocking semaphores.[01:26:37] <Zenja> Ie. it is initialised with 0.[01:26:58] <Zenja> Thread is by default block. (msg_recv)[01:27:10] <Zenja> Other threads never acquire semaphore, they just signal[01:27:22] <mmu_man> I got it :D[01:28:04] <Zenja> I think it is safe to assume that a higher priority thread signaling (even with reschedule flag) will continue running[01:28:13] <mmu_man> theorically if there is a rt thread in the running queue it will always get in first[01:28:45] <Zenja> Ie the normal thread blocked on the semaphore will still only transition from SLEEPING to READY, but still not RUNNING[01:29:06] <Zenja> I think I answered my own question :)[01:29:17] <Zenja> Its good to think out aloud[01:29:22] <Zenja> Thanks mmu_man[01:29:35] <mmu_man> now, real time thread are *not* meant to be always running[01:29:39] <mmu_man> it's a design mistake[01:30:02] <mmu_man> it should snooze or wait as soon as it's finished its work[01:30:23] <mmu_man> but of course things can go nasty :)[01:30:41] <mmu_man> it might actually be a wanted feature[01:31:04] <mmu_man> if it has 10 sems to release at once it's better for synchronization that it doesn't get rescheduled[01:31:14] <Zenja> mmu_man: the scenario that I'm evaluating is actually interupt driven. It needs to let a 'normal' thread know that something happened.[01:32:18] <Zenja> The problem i have is that I have timing critical processing, and cannot afford to wait for a reschedule. Hence I have to do something in higher priority level.[01:32:40] <mmu_man> time critical = rt[01:32:57] <mmu_man> the thread must be real time then[01:33:29] <mmu_man> note also it's not the thread that is interrupted that releases, it's the irq handler[01:34:30] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[01:34:57] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[01:35:22] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[01:35:27] <Zenja> mmu_man: yes. Essentially, I figured it out. Normal thread is waiting for messages (blocked on semaphore). High priority thread sends message (signals sempahore). All the OS does is change the state of the blocked thread from SLEEPING to READY_TO_RUN. Even if a reschedule happened, the high priority thread will gain the CPU again, and finish it's workload. Only then will the scheduler pick the READY_TO_RUN normal thread, and[01:35:49] <Zenja> irq_handler disables interrupts. No rescheduling[01:36:12] <Zenja> Sorry, no preemptive scheduling[01:37:18] <Zenja> So essentially, sending messages from high priority thread will not perform a reschedule (practically) - i'm comparing the normal worker thread and the time critical one.[01:37:25] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[01:37:36] <Zenja> Thanks for helping me clarify this[01:37:58] * Zenja goes back to writing design document[01:51:22] <CIA-48> bonefish * r25036 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/OverriddenJamRules:[01:51:22] <CIA-48> Execute chmod at least command or the set permissions might get lost[01:51:22] <CIA-48> again. I'm not totally sure why that is, but the set-uid permission kept[01:51:22] <CIA-48> disappearing.[01:52:32] *** procton has quit IRC[01:52:37] *** procton has joined #haiku[01:54:34] *** nibble has quit IRC[01:56:00] *** wildur_ has quit IRC[01:56:41] <CIA-48> korli * r25037 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/HaikuImage: use <bin>zipgrep target[01:57:22] *** korli has quit IRC[02:00:46] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[02:01:07] *** Wiss has joined #haiku[02:02:08] <CIA-48> bonefish * r25038 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/tty/tty.cpp: (log message trimmed)[02:02:08] <CIA-48> * Don't check the open count of the other tty anymore when acquiring a[02:02:08] <CIA-48> reference. The places where that is of relevance do that anyway, and[02:02:08] <CIA-48> tty_ioctl(), where it isn't, failed before, although that was not[02:02:08] <CIA-48> necessary. This prevented for instance ioctls() on the master tty[02:02:11] <CIA-48> before any slave had been opened.[02:02:12] <CIA-48> * If the tty has no process group set, don't check for background reads.[02:02:37] *** Disreali has quit IRC[02:02:51] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[02:04:39] *** Disreali has quit IRC[02:07:15] <CIA-48> bonefish * r25039 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/coreutils/ (lib/config.h src/Jamfile):[02:07:15] <CIA-48> * Haiku has grown a few features in the meantime, so enable them in[02:07:15] <CIA-48> coreutils' config.h.[02:07:15] <CIA-48> * "su" needs to have set-uid permission.[02:10:16] <Wiss> hi all[02:10:54] <CIA-48> bonefish * r25040 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs):[02:10:54] <CIA-48> * Moved private passwd/group/shadow passwd limit constants from[02:10:54] <CIA-48> <libroot_private.h> to <user_group.h>.[02:10:54] <CIA-48> * Added support in the registrar for adding and modifying users.[02:11:25] <Wiss> I've seen on logs that haiku received 5 slots for the GSoC... my app is "Reviewer Assigned", do you know what are the five most important projects for Haiku ? thanks for the information :)[02:13:36] <DHowett> 5? eep.[02:13:45] <DHowett> I got cut from gentoo because I was #8 for 6 slots ><[02:14:03] <slaad> 5 sounds pretty good to me, DHowett.[02:15:34] <Wiss> DHowett : ok, bad news ... for mine, I got cut from Scribus because I was #4 for 3 slots[02:15:46] <DHowett> wow[02:15:52] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[02:16:03] <CIA-48> bonefish * r25041 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/ (10 files in 4 dirs):[02:16:03] <CIA-48> * Added useradd and passwd tools. They allow adding new users and[02:16:03] <CIA-48> changing a user's password, like on other platforms (just a bit more[02:16:03] <CIA-48> bare-bones :-)).[02:16:03] <CIA-48> * Moved login from src/bin/network/login/ to src/bin/multiuser/.[02:16:04] <CIA-48> * login correctly checks the shadow password now.[02:16:36] <Wiss> Haiku is my prefered application and I'm always "Reviewer Assigned", but I have no idea about my chances to be chosen[02:18:02] <CIA-48> bonefish * r25042 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/HaikuImage:[02:18:02] <CIA-48> * Added useradd and passwd to the image.[02:18:02] <CIA-48> * Enforced 80 columns limit.[02:18:47] *** mats has quit IRC[02:25:13] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[02:28:36] * slaad wedgies DeadYak[02:30:21] *** umccullough_w has joined #haiku[02:31:58] <umccullough_w> in about 30 minutes, i'm on the road and out of town for the weekend :)[02:32:18] <umccullough_w> probably with no internet access :/[02:33:15] <slaad> Bummer.[02:33:29] * umccullough_w wonders how his gmail inbox will take care of itself for that long[02:33:38] *** pyCube has quit IRC[02:36:26] <koki_haiku> umccullough_w, it's a good thing to disconnect yourself every one and then[02:36:33] <slaad> Lies.[02:36:40] <umccullough_w> koki_haiku, one would think ;)[02:36:41] <slaad> Don't believe him![02:37:24] <koki_haiku> every once and then I declare a "no computer" weekend[02:37:55] <koki_haiku> hey slaad[02:39:11] <slaad> How's things, koki_haiku?[02:40:31] <koki_haiku> I'm sleepy :)[02:40:46] * slaad too.[02:40:54] <slaad> I've only had 4 - 5 hours sleep the last few nights.[02:41:04] <slaad> And I had to wake up at 4am this morning >.<[02:41:17] <{V}> ugh[02:43:55] <slaad> Where does one grab gcc 2.95.3-haiku-080323 for Zeta?[02:45:41] * koki_haiku wonders if such a thing exists[02:46:00] <umccullough_w> slaad, you can *try* to use the one for BeOS :/[02:46:07] *** megaf__ has joined #Haiku[02:46:08] <umccullough_w> since it's only a cross-compiler it might actually work[02:46:15] <umccullough_w> as it doesn't have to build zeta targets[02:46:39] <mmu_man> it works just fine[02:46:47] <umccullough_w> :)[02:46:56] <mmu_man> and zeta *is* BeOS[02:47:01] <umccullough_w> lol[02:47:33] <umccullough_w> nah, it's a fork ;)[02:47:36] <slaad> URL?[02:48:03] <umccullough_w> http://www.haiku-os.org/development[02:50:14] <umccullough_w> slaad, i trust that you found it on that page?[02:50:26] *** {V} is now known as {V}zzz[02:53:14] * slaad did[02:53:19] <slaad> I swear it wasn't there last I checked :P[02:53:50] <koki_haiku> umccullough_w, what email did you use for the LW application?[02:56:20] <umccullough_w> koki_haiku, my gmail account[02:57:15] <umccullough_w> anything else you wanna know before i disappear for 2 days?[02:57:49] <umccullough_w> i'll try to check email via my sister's laptop in the city...[02:57:50] <koki_haiku> nope. got a response from Adam Marti; looks like we should hear from them soon.[02:57:55] <umccullough_w> cool[02:58:30] <koki_haiku> umccullough_w, what did Bryan and Ryan apply for? was it for speaker or bof spots?[03:02:47] <umccullough_w> BOF i think[03:03:22] <slaad> Hey, mmu_man, with the replacement gcc I just dump it into /boot/bes/etc/develop and then link the directory to current, yes?[03:03:38] <umccullough_w> slaad, nuh uh[03:03:41] <umccullough_w> read the readme![03:03:52] <umccullough_w> it's not a replacement compiler for the host[03:03:55] <slaad> For gcc? There isn't one.[03:03:55] <umccullough_w> it's a cross-compiler[03:04:06] <umccullough_w> should be a readme in the zip, isn't there?[03:04:10] <umccullough_w> somewhere i saw a readme[03:04:11] <slaad> Nope.[03:04:12] *** megaf__ is now known as The-Megaf[03:04:21] <umccullough_w> anyhow, you're supposed to dump it to /boot/apps[03:04:23] <mmu_man> slaad hmm no it goes to /boot/apps, was built this way[03:04:43] * umccullough_w wonders where he saw the readme[03:05:01] <umccullough_w> oh, it was on the website![03:05:13] <umccullough_w> new instructions :)[03:05:17] <slaad> Woops. Downloaded the wrong one. Silly me.[03:05:32] <umccullough_w> http://www.haiku-os.org/documents/dev/getting_the_source_code[03:05:53] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[03:06:32] <umccullough_w> apparently the zip contains apps[03:06:35] <umccullough_w> so you just unzip to /boot[03:07:13] <slaad> Yup.[03:07:21] <slaad> Got it now, cheers.[03:07:50] <umccullough_w> anyhow, i'm ditching outta here in a couple - so see ya'll later[03:08:02] <DHowett> see ya[03:08:19] *** umccullough_w has quit IRC[03:08:34] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[03:16:22] <koki_haiku> hey DHowett[03:16:34] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[03:17:11] <slaad> Right, time to reboot....[03:17:12] *** slaad has quit IRC[03:18:18] <DHowett> hey koki :)[03:20:49] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[03:25:13] <Kokito> http://www.flickr.com/photos/megaf/2423427910/sizes/l/[03:31:43] <DHowett> what on earth[03:32:04] <DHowett> Not bad[03:34:25] *** slaad has joined #haiku[03:34:26] <Kokito> they did better than zebuntu :P[03:34:49] <slaad> Hrm. Seems fine, with the exception of having no mouse :/[03:36:14] *** The-Megaf has quit IRC[03:37:53] *** Megaf has joined #Haiku[03:43:23] <slaad> Oh, wait, no it isn't....[03:46:04] *** slaad has quit IRC[03:55:27] *** slaad has joined #haiku[03:57:35] * Zenja rejoins chat room.[03:58:41] <Zenja> It's amusing to watch my gf unpack her very first MacBookPro. She's exploring the unit for the very first time. The voice over utility is exceptionally good. Polish and attention to detail is amazing.[04:01:04] <DHowett> voice over?[04:01:19] <DHowett> "And the subject, intrigued by the packing technique, very gently ..."[04:01:21] <DHowett> ... :)[04:02:06] *** Templario has joined #haiku[04:02:08] <Zenja> The laptop will speak any dialog / message box text while waiting for you to read it. It works exceptionally well.[04:02:14] <DHowett> nice[04:02:20] <Zenja> Good first impression.[04:02:49] <Zenja> (I keep mine off, annoying as hell when it suprises you in the evening)[04:06:04] <duaneb> fun stuff: http://home.no.net/tkos/info/fat.html[04:08:15] *** decaps has joined #haiku[04:08:20] <DHowett> I remember that'n[04:08:46] <DHowett> I wrote the FAT implementation for Cipher. Well, i wrote Cipher. But Filesystems=ew.[04:14:16] *** Poisson_Pilote has quit IRC[04:14:33] *** Poisson_Pilote has joined #haiku[04:15:42] *** [Katisu] has joined #haiku[04:15:58] <duaneb> Yea, writing one now[04:16:03] <duaneb> in userspace, thank god[04:16:12] <duaneb> I remember my 'bootloader' :P[04:16:51] <DHowett> hehe[04:17:00] <DHowett> GRUB + multiboot for the win[04:17:33] <duaneb> bootman[04:17:36] <duaneb> :D[04:17:37] *** absabs has joined #haiku[04:18:14] *** duaneb has quit IRC[04:25:29] *** Wiss has quit IRC[04:27:48] *** Zenja_ has joined #haiku[04:31:27] *** Wiss has joined #haiku[04:34:38] *** Megaf has quit IRC[04:41:02] *** Megaf has joined #Haiku[04:41:43] <Kokito> absabs! :)[04:41:52] <absabs> hi kokito[04:42:16] <absabs> I did not find what's the problem[04:42:34] <absabs> maybe need a rtl8139 to test..[04:42:36] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[04:42:41] <koki_haiku> hehe no problem :)[04:42:53] <absabs> this weekend I have some time[04:42:56] <absabs> :P[04:43:26] <absabs> It seems that the memory is freed twice?[04:44:04] <koki_haiku> I have no idea absabs :)[04:44:16] <absabs> :)[04:44:25] <koki_haiku> I understand more Chinese than code :P[04:44:52] * koki_haiku is always making bad jokes[04:46:02] <absabs> hahaha[04:46:06] <absabs> :D[04:46:41] <absabs> but your contribution to haiku is more than code[04:46:56] <absabs> awesome[04:47:05] *** Zenja has quit IRC[04:47:26] <koki_haiku> I don't think so absabs; no code, no Haiku.[04:47:27] <absabs> 推广haiku非常棒[04:48:33] *** decaps has left #haiku[04:48:42] <Kokito> 大感謝 :)[04:49:04] <absabs> no koki, no haiku's future's popularity[04:49:06] <absabs> :)[04:50:53] <Kokito> thanks absabs[04:51:02] <Kokito> ok, too much computer time today[04:51:09] <Kokito> off to get some fresh air[04:51:18] <absabs> see u later[05:07:49] *** cps1966 has joined #haiku[05:20:46] *** plfiorini_ has joined #haiku[05:26:40] <DHowett> *reads the chinese above and boggles in complete incomprehension*[05:28:50] *** Zenja has joined #haiku[05:28:55] <Zenja> FTP transfer speed though seems to have regressed during the last 2 weeks.[05:34:38] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[05:34:53] *** Kokito has quit IRC[05:35:12] *** koki_haiku has quit IRC[05:35:40] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku[05:36:15] <ddew|bofh> g'morning[05:38:40] <DHowett> 'morn ddew|bofh[05:38:53] *** Zenja_ has quit IRC[05:45:42] <ddew|bofh> buying books online is the shiznit[05:45:56] <ddew|bofh> the price-difference between online and "offline" is huge[05:46:59] <ddew|bofh> i picked up two books on c++ for ~40€ in the online version of the store i bought another one for 70€ last month[05:47:14] <ddew|bofh> and the books are "equivalent" as far as prices are concerned[05:47:40] <DHowett> Yep. College bookstore here.. amazon over there.. a good $100 difference in some cases.[05:48:23] <ddew|bofh> indeed, i was shocked. the annoying bit is that this is the exact same store, just buying it online would've shaved 50€ off the pricetag[05:48:55] *** stargater has joined #haiku[05:48:56] <ddew|bofh> yet more proof that leaving the apartment is nothing but a nuisane :P[05:49:01] <stargater> morning[05:49:04] <ddew|bofh> *nuicanse[05:49:15] <ddew|bofh> g'morning[05:56:29] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[05:57:18] <Zenja> I do the same with cosmetics. Go to the store, find out what I like, then go home and order it.[05:59:34] <cps1966> sounds like a gal to me[06:01:09] <ddew|bofh> only downside is that i actually like having the book in my hands and flicking through it before i buy it[06:02:59] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC[06:04:46] *** AlexForster has quit IRC[06:05:18] <ddew|bofh> heh, this is bordering on insanity. i'm doing a review of Minix[06:05:28] <ddew|bofh> me god it's limited, elegant but limited[06:09:20] <DHowett> elegant howso? Or would i have to read the review to find out ;)[06:09:46] <ddew|bofh> hehe[06:09:59] <ddew|bofh> i just enjoy the microkernel aspect of it[06:10:06] <ddew|bofh> everything is a n app[06:10:09] <ddew|bofh> *an app[06:10:25] <DHowett> nice[06:10:28] *** Guma has joined #haiku[06:10:46] *** Guma has quit IRC[06:11:00] <stargater> cu[06:11:06] *** stargater has quit IRC[06:12:03] <ddew|bofh> is an education/research os so i wouldn't call it fit for normal consumption[06:12:17] <ddew|bofh> but it's interesting to take a peek at the "road not traveled"[06:14:18] *** _Lucretia__ has joined #haiku[06:15:12] <DHowett> "The best known lossless compression algorithm is implemented in the bzip2 program. It also has extremely fast decompression." (Minix3.org, 2008) It also claims that there are awesome size differences between bz2 and zip.[06:15:35] <DHowett> Their examples aren't that great though. The minix3 ISO only differs 2mb compressed with bzip2 than zip..[06:15:49] <DHowett> and bzip2 takes FOREVER to decompress large files.[06:15:51] <DHowett> *rolls eyes*[06:16:00] <ddew|bofh> heh[06:16:24] <ddew|bofh> i just care abouthe the os. so far it's looking good.[06:16:41] <DHowett> nice[06:16:46] <ddew|bofh> but it looks like i'm gonna have to pick up some cdrs so i can give it a go on real metal[06:17:03] <ddew|bofh> it's having massive problems with virtualbox[06:17:17] <DHowett> that's why nobody uses virtualbox :)[06:18:57] <ddew|bofh> you can't beat it's price though ;)[06:19:34] <DHowett> *quickly looks up said price*[06:19:55] <DHowett> I see[06:20:01] <DHowett> qemu works pretty well these days ;)[06:20:08] <DHowett> qemu+KVM is pretty amazing speedwise[06:20:18] <ddew|bofh> indeed it is[06:20:48] <DHowett> wait. Seamless desktop mode? Whoa, whoa, whoa![06:21:43] <DHowett> How does something like that work.. There would need to be guest-specific implementations, i imagine..[06:22:38] <ddew|bofh> i'd imagine so. the mouse-bit alone is tricky business[06:22:58] <DHowett> Indeed[06:23:35] <DHowett> 'mouse moves over window at 127x65 on host. This translates to 0,0 on the window (plus chrome) and the window is actually at 60, 500 on the guest system"[06:23:37] <DHowett> way too much[06:23:38] <DHowett> but a nice feature[06:24:11] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC[06:26:02] <DHowett> I wonder how it would handle Shaped windows![06:26:31] <ddew|bofh> black magic ;)[06:27:09] * ddew|bofh is waiting impatiently for Haiku to self-host[06:27:38] <ddew|bofh> i nuked my beos box the other day and since i'm on a 64-bit shared lib-system i can't build haiku here[06:28:01] * JonathanThompson is waiting patiently for ddew|bofh to self-host[06:28:02] <JonathanThompson> Come on, ddew|bofh: pull yourself up by your bootstraps![06:28:33] *** Wiss has quit IRC[06:28:51] <DHowett> ddew|bofh: i'm on a 64-bit system, /lib64 and /lib32.. i build haiku just perfectly :)[06:29:12] * JonathanThompson notes DHowett is a true son of a bit[06:29:14] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[06:29:25] <DHowett> haha..[06:30:19] <ddew|bofh> DHowett: yeah, but this is a shared lib system so setting up a chroot is non-trivial[06:30:24] <DHowett> no chroot[06:30:30] <DHowett> er, wait[06:30:36] <DHowett> maybe i misunderstand shared-lib[06:31:37] *** Templario has quit IRC[06:33:04] <DHowett> like, i've got 64-bit libs in /lib64 and 32-bit libs in /lib32, programs use the correct ones due to some ld magic. What's that referred to as?[06:34:48] <ddew|bofh> sounds like my setup.[06:35:07] <DHowett> oh[06:35:09] <ddew|bofh> the problem here is that there isn't a 32-bit version of g++ available[06:35:14] <DHowett> in that case, I don't build in a chroo.. ahh, alright[06:35:14] <DHowett> wait[06:35:18] <JonathanThompson> ?[06:35:19] <DHowett> not here either[06:35:20] <JonathanThompson> No?[06:35:24] <DHowett> gcc -m32[06:35:56] <DHowett> i built the cross-compiler with my 64-bit compiler running in linux32 (setarch), passing --use-32bit to ./configure[06:36:30] <JonathanThompson> Couldn't you have found and downloaded a 32 bit RPM or whatever type of package?[06:36:56] <ddew|bofh> maybe i should try that[06:37:08] <ddew|bofh> the --use-32-bit deal[06:38:32] <ddew|bofh> i didn't recall seeing that one last time i tried building on 64bit. is it a new addition?[06:38:37] <DHowett> http://pastebin.com/d5a595455 :)[06:38:42] <DHowett> it's been around at least since 24400[06:38:51] <DHowett> i say at least because that's where i came in[06:39:44] <ddew|bofh> i'll give it a go, hopefully i'll have better luck with it[06:39:53] <DHowett> Hope so :)[06:41:16] <ddew|bofh> setting up a chroot on arch was easy but here it's way more annoying[06:42:09] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[06:42:14] <ddew|bofh> yeah, that one didn't work either :([06:42:33] <Begasus> morning peeps[06:43:50] <ddew|bofh> hiya[06:46:17] <plfiorini_> so, haiku builds succesfully on 64bit machines?[06:46:40] <DHowett> well, one that I know of. *eyes his laptop suspiciously*[06:47:40] <DHowett> on 64-bit multilib at least[06:47:59] <plfiorini_> opensuse 10.3 is multilib[06:48:15] * plfiorini_ is looking for a 32bit gcc on yast[06:48:31] *** plfiorini_ is now known as plfiorini[06:48:50] <DHowett> I didn't need a 32-bit gcc... I built the cross-compiler with x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc[06:49:34] <plfiorini> ok i try with --use-32bit[06:49:49] <DHowett> I ran "linux32" (or "seratch i686") and inside that shell used ./configure --use-32bit etc.[06:49:52] <plfiorini> is rev24507 still good for buildtools?[06:50:25] <DHowett> should be fine.. why not update though? 25000 seems fine, but i built my cross-compiler with 24400-something[06:52:55] * plfiorini is checking buildtools out[06:53:25] <plfiorini> building haiku on a vmware machine was fine, but it's better on my real hw[06:53:39] <plfiorini> i already made a partition on my new sata2 disk[06:54:11] <plfiorini> does gcc4 builds on haiku now?[06:54:45] *** daste has quit IRC[06:58:15] <Begasus> where can I find be_clipboard in Haiku's headers?[06:59:03] *** Zaranthos_1 has quit IRC[06:59:04] *** Yaroze has quit IRC[07:02:47] *** Zaranthos has quit IRC[07:02:56] *** Zaranthos has joined #haiku[07:02:56] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku[07:03:10] *** Zaranthos_1 has joined #Haiku[07:06:30] *** DHowett has left #haiku[07:06:32] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[07:06:36] *** DHowett has left #haiku[07:06:37] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[07:11:10] *** Yaroze has quit IRC[07:11:10] *** Zaranthos has quit IRC[07:11:11] *** Zaranthos_1 is now known as Zaranthos[07:13:46] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku[07:13:59] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[07:14:05] <Kokito> re[07:14:08] <Begasus> be_clipboard undeclared ...[07:14:12] <Begasus> hi Kokito[07:14:13] *** Zaranthos_1 has joined #Haiku[07:15:08] <Kokito> hi Begasus[07:16:18] <Begasus> ah nm .. got it ;)[07:16:26] <Begasus> thx for google ^^[07:16:36] * JonathanThompson hisses[07:16:43] <Begasus> rofl[07:16:48] <Begasus> g'morning JonathanThompson ;)[07:16:57] <JonathanThompson> Greets, Begasus.[07:17:19] <Begasus> so ... having TrackerGrep around in Haiku could be helpfull ;)[07:17:46] * JonathanThompson hopes Yahoo! provides a better quarterly report than expected Tuesday so his stock options have a better chance of being worth something.[07:18:01] <JonathanThompson> Are you trying to hint at something, Begasus? ;)[07:18:17] <Begasus> that is if it didn't send the cpu skyhigh ... /[07:18:36] <Begasus> nah ...[07:20:39] <JonathanThompson> I still remain firmly convinced that regardless of what anyone at Yahoo! wants or does, it'll end up being a subsidiary of Microsoft in some form, assuming regulators in various countries don't prevent it, within < 12 months.[07:20:56] *** TuneTracker has quit IRC[07:20:58] <DHowett> Unfortunately.[07:21:34] *** Euver has joined #haiku[07:21:37] <DHowett> I think I've defeated the internet. Seriously. I don't have ANYTHING more i want to do online.[07:21:50] <Kokito> top news from asahi.com: police is investigating the incident where 65 tulips planted in the Maebashi downtown were cut off[07:21:59] * JonathanThompson puts up sites for DHowett to make mad money with, but doesn't tell him how to find them[07:22:23] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps someone merely wanted a fresh household full of nice flowers ;)[07:22:23] *** tarma has quit IRC[07:22:32] <DHowett> awesome, it's like hide and seek ;) They'll probably even run away if i find them! :)[07:23:42] *** Yaroze has quit IRC[07:23:45] <Monni> There was a funny "breaking news" a while ago in local radio station.... regular news broadcast was interrupted when news reader did eat a fly...[07:24:30] * JonathanThompson creates a new version of the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but in this case it's the pot of electronic funds transfer at the site of a migratory web server[07:24:56] <JonathanThompson> Gotta watch those flies when opening your mouth ;)[07:24:59] <DHowett> sweet ;P[07:25:02] <JonathanThompson> (They don't taste good)[07:26:45] <JonathanThompson> There's an area in downtown Indianapolis where it can be dangerous to run around dusk, if you have your mouth open: you're very likely to get some flying protein intake ;)[07:26:46] <Begasus> TrackerGrep doesn't seem to like Haiku :/[07:26:51] <JonathanThompson> (Been there, done that, more than once)[07:26:58] <DHowett> Eeew.[07:27:15] <JonathanThompson> I assure you, I didn't intend on ending their lives![07:27:34] <Monni> maybe they fly happily inside your stomach...[07:28:07] <JonathanThompson> Even if they did for their full normal lifespans, I've not been in Indianapolis since January 2005 ;)[07:28:56] *** Yaroze has joined #haiku[07:28:59] <JonathanThompson> And there aren't too many flying insects outside in Indianapolis during that month...[07:29:00] <Monni> is that bad?[07:29:02] <Kokito> JonathanThompson, it's a sign of how peaceful Japan is[07:29:46] <JonathanThompson> So, what's the underside of Japan *really* like, the stuff that doesn't end up in the police blotter?[07:30:08] <JonathanThompson> I find it hard to believe that's the worst criminal sort of thing that happens all year.[07:31:25] <JonathanThompson> Granted, it does seem to me there's more of a cultural consistency in Japan than most places, that's not nearly as diverse of people with different beliefs.[07:32:57] <ddew|bofh> yeah, god forbid there should exist a country that isn't intent on destroying itself and everyone around it[07:34:03] * JonathanThompson slaps ddew|bofh because he clearly needs one :)[07:34:24] <ddew|bofh> for what? :)[07:34:33] <JonathanThompson> Because you clearly need one :)[07:34:34] <ddew|bofh> i'm a fan of japan[07:34:43] <JonathanThompson> And you also love to bash the US :)[07:34:56] *** Zenja has quit IRC[07:35:33] <Monni> well... US people tend to fsck up things more than other nations...[07:35:47] *** slaad has quit IRC[07:36:15] <JonathanThompson> And yet, so many people of so many countries bitch and moan if the US doesn't bend over to help, so... you can't always get what you want, and you can never ever please everybody.[07:36:23] <ddew|bofh> i'll bash anyone that fucks up. it's a mere coincidence that US has fucked up the most recently[07:36:58] <Monni> US economy has declined to almost critical level...[07:37:03] <JonathanThompson> Me, I sincerely think it'd do everyone a lot of good if the US flat out told the world (and stuck to it) "We're not going to interfere with anyone and their existence beyond merely trade for stuff, and we won't fund any other country's anything, etc. for 10 years"[07:37:40] <JonathanThompson> And then spend all that money on improving the infrastructure of the US in ways other than the outwardly visible ones to outsiders.[07:38:03] <ddew|bofh> you think that'll happen?[07:38:12] <DHowett> And the people we've pissed off would use take their chance.[07:38:13] <DHowett> :p[07:38:14] <JonathanThompson> There's a lot of infrastructure in bad shape, that's only going to get worse, and I can't help but think it'll get to crisis times.[07:38:21] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: I'll believe that Congress can spend money responsibly when I see it[07:38:32] <DeadYak> let alone Comcast et al.[07:38:34] <JonathanThompson> I can't argue with you there, DeadYak ;)[07:38:53] <DeadYak> given that they were given billions in tax breaks to improve infrastructure in the 90s and they pocketed it all[07:38:56] <JonathanThompson> But once again, I think it'd do *everyone* a lot of good, overall.[07:39:21] *** Euver has quit IRC[07:39:23] <DeadYak> but meh[07:39:41] <DeadYak> also given the US national debt, they're not in much position to fund anyone else as is :P[07:39:49] <JonathanThompson> We aren't even properly taking care of our own citizens and all their needs, so why in the hell should we be bailing out other countries in any way, shape or form until we've taken care of our needs first?[07:39:52] <Monni> it would do everyone a lot good if USA would sink like Atlantis... Even though a lot of people claim there was no Atlantis ever...[07:40:12] <JonathanThompson> Monni, I don't think that would do as much good as you'd like to think, and it'd do a lot more harm.[07:40:29] <JonathanThompson> Where do you think all the countries that produce manufactured goods we don't make anymore are selling them?[07:40:47] <JonathanThompson> Like it or not, we're all very interconnected.[07:40:50] <Monni> JonathanThompson: Well... Only serious thing it would do is to restructure world economy, but seriously I don't think it is such a bad thing...[07:40:59] <DHowett> sink like atlantis? I don't want to die. Or adapt gills. =[[07:41:19] * JonathanThompson puts an implanted SCUBA tank into DHowett[07:41:31] <JonathanThompson> Is that better? :)[07:41:34] <Technix> aw yeah.. new BSG rocks[07:41:43] *** Megaf has quit IRC[07:41:44] <JonathanThompson> I haven't watched it yet![07:41:47] <JonathanThompson> SHUT UP! :D[07:41:52] <Monni> lol[07:41:55] <Technix> oh man, you're going to really like it when ..[07:42:00] <JonathanThompson> (Not tonight's episode)[07:42:01] <Technix> and, then she...[07:42:10] <Technix> and don't forget to see when he ... uh[07:42:11] * JonathanThompson slaps Technix sillier than normal[07:42:18] <Kokito> JonathanThompson, there is crime in Japan; recently, a guy suddenly stabbed several people on the walkside in a busy area of Tokyo.[07:42:22] <JonathanThompson> Which takes a lot of effort :P[07:42:29] <Technix> omg, and that part, with the guns and ships and things.. omg omg[07:42:31] <Technix> :P[07:42:32] <DHowett> JonathanThompson: Yay! Now i'm prone to exploding when the oxygen expands![07:42:38] * DHowett explodes gleefully.[07:42:44] <JonathanThompson> You'll grow out of it, DHowett :)[07:42:56] <JonathanThompson> (Perhaps expansively and explosively)[07:43:18] * JonathanThompson gets someone to verify that Technix is still properly neutered[07:44:01] <JonathanThompson> And to make sure Technix remains that way ;)[07:44:10] <JonathanThompson> (Don't want any newly grown organs or implants)[07:46:39] <Technix> DAMN IT ROCKS[07:46:51] <JonathanThompson> Glad to see you love being neutered :_[07:46:53] <JonathanThompson> :)[07:48:04] *** slaad has joined #haiku[07:48:38] <DHowett> Night[07:48:53] *** slaad has quit IRC[07:49:42] *** DHowett has left #haiku[07:58:17] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[07:58:47] *** slaad has joined #haiku[07:59:16] <slaad> Does anyone have experience using Haiku's USB stack in BeOS / Zeta?[07:59:46] *** ThomHolwerda9298 has joined #haiku[07:59:51] * JonathanThompson imagines a barnyard love song, logically entitled, "She's a brick horse!"[07:59:59] <ThomHolwerda9298> ...[08:00:30] <slaad> This is so weird... my keyboard works fine.[08:00:37] <ThomHolwerda9298> we can see.[08:00:41] <JonathanThompson> But your mind doesn't work so well? :)[08:01:07] <JonathanThompson> Keyboards are probably all USB 1.1 and also a certain type of USB protocol that other things aren't.[08:01:18] <slaad> Plugging in N mouses results in N miceseses being populated in /dev/input/mouse ... but the input_server doesn't seem to look at them ;)[08:01:36] * JonathanThompson detects slaad stutterering[08:01:49] * slaad deteects JonathanThompson fixing all his problems...[08:01:56] * slaad detects himself stuttering.[08:02:28] <JonathanThompson> Now, we need to get the spellchecker to correct your name to "Salad" as I keep reading it if I'm not careful ;)[08:02:51] <JonathanThompson> Fun makes life so dyslexia![08:09:13] * JonathanThompson wonders how much snow the Seattle area will get this weekend[08:09:24] *** mmadia has quit IRC[08:09:25] <JonathanThompson> It's been a funky spring in this area, that's for sure![08:19:31] *** umccullough_lap has joined #haiku[08:19:42] <umccullough_lap> wireless bridge FTW![08:20:06] <slaad> Heyoo umccullough_lap[08:20:18] <umccullough_lap> you get that x-compiler working?[08:20:58] <slaad> Yeah.[08:21:08] <slaad> Got the USB stack installed.[08:21:15] <slaad> Keyboard works fine.[08:21:25] <slaad> Mouse creates entries in /dev/input/mouse/usb/N[08:21:38] <Kokito> umccullough_lap, what are you doing here? can't stay away? :P[08:21:39] <slaad> But the input_server doesn't seem to be, you know, reading the inputs.[08:25:47] *** aroman_ has joined #haiku[08:25:48] *** aroman has quit IRC[08:27:32] <umccullough_lap> Kokito, i was actually testing to make sure my linksys wireless deal works :)[08:27:53] <umccullough_lap> took a while to get it right - turned out it was conflicting with my sister's linksys router that was on the same IP range :/[08:28:01] *** ThomHolwerda has quit IRC[08:28:17] <umccullough_lap> also drinking a beer and trying to unwind[08:28:22] <Kokito> umccullough_lap, I was teasing you :)[08:29:05] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC[08:32:02] <umccullough_lap> :)[08:33:57] *** hakimrie has joined #haiku[08:34:49] * [Katisu] deletes generated keymap and attempts to rebuild[08:35:24] <umccullough_lap> slaad, i've never tried the haiku usb kit on anything :)[08:35:29] * [Katisu] prepares to hunt down Deadyak if it doesn't work[08:35:42] <umccullough_lap> i should update haiku on this laptop and see if it suffers from the same intel_extreme problem as my desktop[08:35:49] *** ampleyfly has quit IRC[08:35:49] * umccullough_lap reboots into ubuntu[08:35:55] *** umccullough_lap has quit IRC[08:37:07] <[Katisu]> don't quite understand why it is doing an /r5/x86/generated version[08:38:38] *** umccullough_x has joined #haiku[08:39:01] <umccullough_x> actually, see - i didn't think I was going to have my laptop with me - my wife wasn't going to bring it[08:39:07] <umccullough_x> and then she did :)[08:39:36] <Monni> bad wife ;)[08:39:39] <umccullough_x> heh[08:42:25] <Monni> that's why I don't let even my girlfriends touch computers...[08:43:30] <umccullough_x> why?[08:43:49] <umccullough_x> my wife probably uses this laptop more than I do anyway :/[08:43:55] <Monni> so they couldn't tease me ;)[08:44:25] <umccullough_x> hmm...[08:44:30] *** umccullough_x is now known as umccullough_ubu[08:44:44] <umccullough_ubu> i forgot this laptop doesn't have xubuntu :([08:44:50] <Monni> my latest barely knew how to use a cellphone...[08:45:00] <umccullough_ubu> yeah, i don't have that problem[08:45:49] *** absabs has quit IRC[08:48:01] <Monni> I don't see it as a problem at all...[08:48:31] <umccullough_ubu> mmm... clearly we have different ideas about that ;)[08:48:43] <Begasus> loosing track of OS's umccullough ? ;)[08:48:47] <Monni> it's a problem if she would ask me to pay her phonebill ;)[08:49:01] <umccullough_ubu> Begasus, yeah i guess :/[08:49:13] <umccullough_ubu> i've been meaning to put xubuntu on this laptop and just keep forgetting[08:49:21] <umccullough_ubu> gnome sucks[08:49:31] <Monni> I only use kubuntu :)[08:49:42] <umccullough_ubu> ugh, i didn't like kubuntu[08:49:43] <Begasus> xubuntu is doing fine so far[08:49:55] <Begasus> atleast it is here ;)[08:50:07] <Monni> I only use it because it uses Qt libraries which I need for Unizone...[08:50:09] <umccullough_ubu> yeah, i have xubuntu on most of my haiku test machines now[08:50:11] <Monni> less clutter...[08:50:37] <umccullough_ubu> xubuntu is nice and light :)[08:51:00] <Monni> I have 768 MB ram so "light" is not requirement ;)[08:51:43] <umccullough_ubu> i think most of my machines have more than that even ;)[08:51:57] <Monni> only IDE device is DVD-ROM drive, so speed isn't an issue either...[08:52:02] <umccullough_ubu> i just don't like how clunky the others are[08:52:27] <umccullough_ubu> too much animation and shit[08:53:13] <umccullough_ubu> i'm sort of a minimalist[08:53:15] <Begasus> nice to play with for a while ... but doesn't add anything else then that ;)[08:53:45] <Monni> well... I always set to some prehistoric style that doesn't have animation and shit... work well with Unizone too...[08:54:07] <umccullough_ubu> i suppose[08:55:36] *** slaad has quit IRC[08:55:57] <umccullough_ubu> mmmm... beer[08:56:37] <Begasus> coffee![08:56:50] <umccullough_ubu> not at midnight ;)[08:56:57] <Begasus> hehe[08:57:09] <Begasus> works for me too ;)[08:58:28] <umccullough_ubu> ah, looncraz ranted about haiku screwing up his BFS partitions on osnews :P[08:58:45] <umccullough_ubu> guess he didn't notice the recent changes to improve BFS compatibility[08:58:59] <umccullough_ubu> well, i don't have the motivation to notify him[08:59:04] * Kokito wonders what people expect from pre-alpha software...[08:59:14] <umccullough_ubu> Kokito, no doubt...[08:59:28] <umccullough_ubu> desensitized[09:00:04] <Kokito> could it be the Luposian syndrome? :P[09:00:17] <umccullough_ubu> in the world of mainstream operating systems and software - there seems to be so many safeguards that people don't worry[09:00:29] <umccullough_ubu> and if they screw up - there's always another product that can fix their mistakes for htem[09:00:53] <umccullough_ubu> it's like healthcare - there's a drug to solve all problems[09:01:20] <umccullough_ubu> then they freak out when they can't fix something niche :)[09:01:36] *** umccullough_ubu is now known as Luposian[09:01:46] <Kokito> heh[09:01:51] <CIA-48> stippi * r25043 /haiku/trunk/headers/os/storage/FilePanel.h:[09:01:51] <CIA-48> Fix the GCC version check for the virtual destructor. Thanks to Micheal for[09:01:51] <CIA-48> showing how to do it.[09:02:09] <Kokito> how many beers have you had so far Luposian? :P[09:02:12] <Luposian> Hey, how come it seems like Haiku is usable - but when i use it, it doesn't do what i expect it to?[09:02:40] <Luposian> it's almost like it's not usable yet! that can't be right - clearly you must fix this problem so I can use it![09:02:51] * Luposian is on his second beer[09:03:38] * Kokito is watching Seinfeld[09:03:46] <Luposian> did you see my latest post about installing Haiku-based video game machines?[09:03:57] <Kokito> URL?[09:04:02] <Luposian> mailing list[09:04:24] * Luposian hunts for the message[09:05:37] <Luposian> april 16th[09:05:54] <Luposian> Re: Gaming in Haiku...[09:06:27] *** smtms has quit IRC[09:06:55] <Luposian> http://www.freelists.org/archives/haiku-development/04-2008/msg00496.html[09:07:40] *** tqh has joined #haiku[09:08:23] *** Luposian is now known as umccullough_ubu[09:10:13] * [Katisu] decides not to comment on that impersonation[09:11:10] <umccullough_ubu> was it that bad?[09:11:13] <umccullough_ubu> :)[09:11:35] *** [Katisu] is now known as SimonCowell[09:11:44] <SimonCowell> absolutely horrendous[09:11:47] *** helf_ has joined #haiku[09:11:51] * umccullough_ubu begins to tear up[09:11:59] * umccullough_ubu cries uncontrollably[09:12:08] <SimonCowell> I've heard screaming banshees that are better[09:12:21] *** umccullough_ubu is now known as PaulaAbdul[09:12:27] <PaulaAbdul> That was great![09:12:34] <PaulaAbdul> You did a wonderful job[09:12:46] *** PaulaAbdul is now known as umccullough_ubu[09:12:55] *** SimonCowell is now known as RandyJackson[09:13:00] <umccullough_ubu> lol[09:13:06] <RandyJackson> That was very pitchy[09:13:12] *** umccullough_ubu is now known as RyanSeacrest[09:13:17] *** RyanSeacrest is now known as RyanSeacrest2[09:13:24] * RyanSeacrest2 notes his nick is already used[09:13:34] <RyanSeacrest2> dude, i'm gay[09:13:37] *** RandyJackson is now known as [Katisu][09:13:42] *** RyanSeacrest2 is now known as umccullough_ubu[09:14:21] *** slaad has joined #haiku[09:14:39] <umccullough_ubu> i don't watch american idol[09:14:48] <umccullough_ubu> in fact, i think i've *never* seen it[09:14:49] *** aroman_ is now known as aroman[09:15:04] <[Katisu]> watched maybe a couple minutes of the auditions this year[09:15:12] <umccullough_ubu> i just hear people talk about it[09:15:13] <aroman> hello[09:15:18] <umccullough_ubu> hey aroman[09:15:21] <aroman> just got back home...[09:15:26] <umccullough_ubu> yeah?[09:15:27] <aroman> watched the hockey game in anaheim :P[09:15:37] <umccullough_ubu> aroman, i'm on a laptop with an i845 - building haiku currently[09:15:38] <aroman> ducks won 5 - 2! :D it was awesome[09:15:47] <aroman> my first hockey game ever! :D[09:15:53] <umccullough_ubu> will test intel_extreme shortly[09:15:56] <aroman> umccullough_ubu: cool... let me know how that works out[09:16:15] <umccullough_ubu> still crashes on my gx270[09:16:23] <umccullough_ubu> i need to log a bug[09:16:28] <umccullough_ubu> but now i'm gone for the weekend :([09:16:37] <aroman> meanwhile... I have to clean up my nfs patch and submit it to the mailing list to try to figure out why it's failing... looks like kernel sockets don't quite work :/[09:16:53] <aroman> umccullough_ubu: yeah I'm gonna be gone most of this weekend...[09:17:52] <aroman> umccullough_ubu: how's ubuntu treating you? :)[09:18:01] <umccullough_ubu> hate it[09:18:09] <umccullough_ubu> need to put xubuntu on this laptop[09:19:06] <umccullough_ubu> if I trusted this internet connection enough - i would maybe try it live online[09:19:34] <umccullough_ubu> but i'm in the city on a non-secured connection :P[09:19:42] <aroman> heh[09:19:48] *** smtms has joined #haiku[09:19:58] <aroman> I used to like openbox when I used linux as a main OS... before I got my macbook[09:20:09] *** slaad has quit IRC[09:21:18] <aroman> hmm... is 512 MB of RAM enough to build Haiku on Haiku?[09:21:55] <umccullough_ubu> uh[09:21:58] *** slaad has joined #haiku[09:22:00] <umccullough_ubu> maybe[09:22:26] <umccullough_ubu> if you get a vfork() out of memory - just re-run it[09:22:43] <umccullough_ubu> i've hear success with 1gb[09:23:55] <aroman> ok[09:24:52] <aroman> I'm tarring up my haiku tree to move it to my haiku desktop[09:24:59] <umccullough_ubu> oh yeah?[09:25:05] <aroman> yeah[09:25:06] <umccullough_ubu> make sure to exclude the .svn dirs[09:25:17] <aroman> well I want to be able to svn up :P[09:25:19] <umccullough_ubu> and the "generated" folder[09:25:21] <umccullough_ubu> oh[09:25:26] <aroman> yeah no generated[09:25:50] <umccullough_ubu> i wonder if that will work[09:25:57] <aroman> why wouldn't it?[09:25:58] <umccullough_ubu> the subversion for haiku is older than that of linux[09:26:07] <aroman> should work...[09:26:11] <umccullough_ubu> i think they may have changed the format of the local .svn dirs[09:26:31] <umccullough_ubu> in 1.4[09:26:32] * slaad has mouse action.[09:26:45] <umccullough_ubu> mouse action - sounds like a kinky porn[09:26:46] <aroman> I accidentally did svn up from mac os x on my haiku tree that was mounted through sshfs from my linux box and it worked :P[09:26:49] <aroman> umccullough_ubu: I see...[09:27:09] <umccullough_ubu> aroman, you'll find out pretty easily if it's a problem i suspect ;)[09:28:19] <aroman> yeah :)[09:28:41] <umccullough_ubu> i seem to recall seeing a similar error - something about wrong client version[09:28:45] * Technix is writing an openID wrapper. :P[09:28:51] <umccullough_ubu> openid![09:28:56] *** helf has quit IRC[09:28:56] <Technix> yup[09:28:59] <umccullough_ubu> nice[09:29:05] <Technix> almost done[09:29:07] <umccullough_ubu> i wish more websites would use it[09:29:12] <Technix> HNN will have openID support soon[09:29:15] <umccullough_ubu> cool[09:29:37] <Technix> since I finished up the comment and use system last week[09:29:40] <Technix> :P[09:29:48] <Technix> haven't implemented it sitewide just yet[09:29:55] <umccullough_ubu> nice[09:29:58] <umccullough_ubu> 'bout time ;)[09:29:58] <Technix> (re: for each news article)[09:30:02] <Technix> yea yea[09:31:12] <umccullough_ubu> hey my sister is home[09:31:27] <Technix> yeah, she left here about half an hour ago[09:31:30] <Technix> :P[09:31:37] <umccullough_ubu> heh[09:35:57] *** darbelo has joined #haiku[09:38:59] <Technix> HNN will also be an openID provider, in case anyone wants to use it[09:39:42] *** Kokito has quit IRC[09:43:06] <CIA-48> laplace * r25044 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/bootman/ (BootLoader.h LegacyBootDrive.cpp LegacyBootDrive.h bootman.S):[09:43:06] <CIA-48> Prepared bootman to boot from other than the first drive.[09:43:06] <CIA-48> The ioctl B_GET_BIOS_DRIVE_ID still needs to be implemented.[09:43:06] <CIA-48> Only partitions from the first drive can be added to the boot menu, until B_GET_BIOS_DRIVE_ID is implemented.[09:43:06] <CIA-48> Fixed bug calculating the offset of the first partition. off_t is a signed type, the fact? that Be FS is a 64-bit filesystem, lead me to the wrong assumption that this is an unsigned type :-([09:44:03] *** [mark] has joined #haiku[09:46:21] <umccullough_ubu> i got an openid from openid.org recently[09:46:21] <umccullough_ubu> but.... i'm not sure i want it :P[09:46:21] * umccullough_ubu is rebooting into haiku[09:46:21] *** umccullough_ubu has quit IRC[09:48:13] <plfiorini> mmmm src/kits/opengl/mesa/glapi/glprocs.h seems broken[09:48:22] *** umccullough_h has joined #haiku[09:48:39] <umccullough_h> aroman, i845 seems to work fine[09:53:00] *** umccullough_h has quit IRC[09:56:30] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku[10:00:24] *** aroman has quit IRC[10:00:44] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[10:01:28] *** aroman has joined #haiku[10:01:35] <aroman> hello[10:01:47] <aroman> weird network issues :/[10:03:15] *** slaad has quit IRC[10:08:47] <plfiorini> haiku is building yay![10:09:56] *** umccullough_ubu has joined #haiku[10:14:04] *** absabs has joined #haiku[10:23:52] <tqh> goodie :)[10:24:35] <aroman> k I've sent a patch with the preliminary NFS patch to the mailing list[10:24:39] <aroman> but I'm off to sleep now[10:24:46] <aroman> talk to you all tomorrow![10:24:47] <aroman> night![10:24:48] <tqh> goodie :)[10:25:07] <aroman> btw patch not working yet...[10:25:10] <tqh> night[10:25:27] <aroman> as I talked to some people on this chan this morning... there might be some issues with sockets within the kernel[10:25:46] <aroman> and a couple more issues with the patch itself where i need some help[10:25:53] <aroman> anyways... going to sleep now[10:25:55] <aroman> night[10:28:00] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[10:28:01] *** Begasus has quit IRC[10:28:01] *** ozy` has quit IRC[10:28:02] *** Penix has quit IRC[10:29:32] <ddew|bofh> heh, just my luck. a day after deciding to write an article for osnews they announce a competition for writers[10:30:19] <ddew|bofh> here i was thinking i could relax and just put a nice article together but of course not :/[10:30:32] *** Penix has joined #haiku[10:30:38] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[10:30:39] <tqh> write another[10:32:11] <ddew|bofh> i'll keep writing mine, but i'll hand it in once the competition is finished to avoid any unecessary stress[10:32:27] <tqh> ah[10:36:04] *** ozy` has joined #haiku[10:38:03] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[10:38:55] *** vbmithr has joined #haiku[10:42:27] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[10:42:55] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[10:43:14] <Lelldorin1> hi all[10:43:45] *** umccullough_ubu has quit IRC[10:45:24] *** aroman has quit IRC[10:51:58] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku[10:55:30] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[11:00:14] *** xcasex has quit IRC[11:02:36] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[11:02:38] <Stargater> moin[11:02:41] *** Odium has quit IRC[11:10:50] *** xcasex has joined #haiku[11:15:33] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[11:17:30] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[11:23:40] *** Paradoxon_ has joined #haiku[11:26:58] *** timepass has joined #haiku[11:28:38] <vbmithr> ...skipped haiku.image for lack of <HaikuImage>haiku.image-copy-files...[11:28:41] <vbmithr> What is this ?[11:28:57] *** hakimrie has quit IRC[11:29:41] <tqh> something failed to build I guess[11:29:55] <ddew|bofh> the error in question is usually a few pages up[11:30:08] <tqh> if I recall -q is good as it quits on the error then[11:30:09] <ddew|bofh> atleast if you build it with the -q option[11:30:26] <vbmithr> jam haiku-image -q ?[11:30:37] <ddew|bofh> jam -q haiku-image[11:31:06] <timepass> hello, was able to run image 25013 on vmware, was wondering how to go about programming on the same.[11:31:14] <vbmithr> ...failed Link generated/objects/haiku/x86/release/kits/libbe.so ...[11:32:13] <vbmithr> there is a problem with libbe.so[11:32:56] <ddew|bofh> check the output of gcc higher up[11:33:51] <vbmithr> generated/objects/haiku/x86/release/libs/icon/libicon.a(Gradient.o): In function `BPrivate::Icon::Gradient::FitToBounds(BRect const &)':[11:33:54] <vbmithr> Gradient.cpp:(.text+0xe7e): undefined reference to `agg::trans_affine::rect_to_parl(double, double, double, double, double const *)'[11:33:58] <vbmithr> Gradient.cpp:(.text+0xe8b): undefined reference to `agg::trans_affine::multiply(agg::trans_affine const &)'[11:34:01] <vbmithr> Things like that[11:35:50] <Paradoxon_> Is there any appserver guru around??? :-D[11:36:36] <ddew|bofh> things like that, yes.[11:36:49] <Paradoxon_> Is there a way to somehow access the ServerBitmap of a View..[11:36:56] <Paradoxon_> from the View itself??[11:37:15] <Paradoxon_> Or any other way to copy Bits out of this ServerBitmap??[11:37:36] *** timepass has left #haiku[11:38:24] <Paradoxon_> I dont need the BBitmap->AddChild()[11:38:28] <ddew|bofh> have you taken a look the the Be Book or the Haiku Book?[11:38:41] <Paradoxon_> :-D[11:38:55] <tqh> you can attach a bitmap to a view and use that[11:39:04] <Paradoxon_> I dont need the BBitmap->AddChild()[11:39:05] <Paradoxon_> :-)[11:39:12] <tqh> ah[11:39:27] <Paradoxon_> What i do is writing a PagedView[11:39:34] *** bSON has joined #haiku[11:39:53] <Paradoxon_> At the moment i using this BBitmap->AddChild()[11:40:04] <Begasus> does the agg translator (or something) compile in the image?[11:40:05] <Paradoxon_> but it causes so much trouble with locking..[11:40:16] <tqh> like tabs?[11:40:25] *** meisje has joined #haiku[11:40:30] <Begasus> hi meisje[11:40:41] *** meisje has quit IRC[11:40:42] <Paradoxon_> Because i cant "really" work with the BViews on the Bitmap..[11:41:02] <Paradoxon_> eg. adding a BTextView will cause in a call of the Debugger..[11:41:39] <Paradoxon_> because the Serverside Window (wich Haiku/Zeat/BEOS use to draw the Bitmat) isnt locked[11:43:06] <tqh> checked if there are any bugs?[11:43:13] <Paradoxon_> No[11:43:32] <Paradoxon_> Just beacuase the BBitmap wasnt build to have live-working BViews on it :)[11:43:41] <Paradoxon_> Just to draw once :-D[11:43:46] <Paradoxon_> Because[11:43:54] <Paradoxon_> On Real BViews it works..[11:44:57] <Paradoxon_> like a charm :)[11:45:55] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC[11:45:57] <tqh> I havn't worked with bitmaps in a long time, is it attached to a view/window?[11:46:22] <Paradoxon_> You cant attche Bitmaps .. as i know..[11:46:27] <Paradoxon_> I draw it on a BView[11:46:40] <Paradoxon_> I use the BBitmpa to simulate a BView[11:47:15] <Paradoxon_> Then Split the BBitmap into Rects given from the Printsettings[11:47:19] <Paradoxon_> Then Draw it ..[11:47:28] <Paradoxon_> So that you have a printpreview[11:47:47] <Technix> http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/BBitmap.html#BBitmap_MemberFunctions[11:47:49] <Paradoxon_> But i still wanne be able to use things like MouseDown and so on..[11:47:58] <Technix> There's a member function Bits() you can use to grab that info[11:48:04] <Paradoxon_> Shure.[11:48:10] <Paradoxon_> From The BBitmap[11:48:15] <Paradoxon_> Iam using this at the moment[11:48:20] *** meisje has joined #haiku[11:48:23] <Paradoxon_> But its causing so much trouble[11:48:35] <Paradoxon_> I wanne access the BitmapView directly[11:48:48] <Paradoxon_> So that i dont need the Bitmap anymore.[11:48:55] <Paradoxon_> to simulate a BView[11:49:01] <Technix> um... it doesn't work that way[11:49:08] <Paradoxon_> BitmapView - means Serverside Bitmap[11:49:45] <tqh> Paradoxon_, I think you might want to use the haiku development mailing list, you do need an expert :)[11:49:57] <Paradoxon_> :-)[11:49:59] <Technix> or state your objectives for not using a BView?[11:50:01] <Paradoxon_> He you are an expert..[11:50:13] <Technix> what is the nature of the application you're writing?[11:50:27] <Paradoxon_> www.projectconceptor.de[11:50:36] <Paradoxon_> But i want to have a printpreview..[11:50:47] <Paradoxon_> give me a sec an i wil upload an image ..[11:50:52] <Paradoxon_> how far i have come..[11:51:03] <Paradoxon_> so that you can have a glue[11:51:12] <tqh> I'm not really a GUI developer and I don't really have a clue about Haiku's appserver.[11:51:31] <Paradoxon_> source to the View https://svn.berlios.de/wsvn/projectconcepto/trunk/src/app/Document/PagedView.cpp[11:51:34] <tqh> sounds like the bitmap -> view handling may be buggy though.[11:51:35] <Paradoxon_> and https://svn.berlios.de/wsvn/projectconcepto/trunk/src/app/Document/PagedView.h[11:51:43] <Technix> a printpreview of what?[11:51:49] <Paradoxon_> My documents[11:51:56] <Technix> ?[11:51:59] <Technix> I don't follow?[11:52:13] <Paradoxon_> this means PrintPreview of all BViews added to PagedView[11:52:33] <Paradoxon_> and still be able to have the full functionality of all Childs added to the PagedView[11:52:46] <Technix> you mean, you're making a document loader and you want to show a print preview to the user?[11:55:29] <Technix> http://www.haiku-os.org/legacy-docs/bebook/BPrintJob.html <-- There's a printer DrawView() method there in case you missed it. But essentially, everything written to the screen (or printer or whatever) is tied to a BVIew, and the BWindow hierarchy[11:56:08] <Technix> that's just the way the API works, you deal with BViews and child views, and such, as attached to a BWindow, which the app_server keeps track of for you[11:59:17] *** [mark] has quit IRC[12:00:42] *** {V} has joined #haiku[12:01:23] <Paradoxon_> sory phone..[12:02:14] <Paradoxon_> http://www.projectconceptor.de/media/PagedView.png[12:03:15] <Technix> that is the print view?[12:03:20] <Paradoxon_> Jear[12:03:24] <Paradoxon_> Not so clear jet[12:03:29] <Paradoxon_> just the first tests[12:03:31] <Paradoxon_> http://www.projectconceptor.de/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&page=inline&id=5&Itemid=2[12:03:36] <Paradoxon_> Original looks like this..[12:03:43] <Paradoxon_> or kind of this :)[12:04:13] <Paradoxon_> So what it sould be able ist..[12:04:32] <Paradoxon_> that you still can work on the Pages like on the "normal" View[12:04:49] <Paradoxon_> So that you can alter eg the Nodes there..[12:05:00] <Paradoxon_> so that they dont splitted..[12:05:08] <Paradoxon_> when printed[12:05:33] <Technix> ok, here's my advice[12:05:39] <Paradoxon_> :-)[12:05:58] <Technix> 1.) keep track of how large in pixels the project is (you likely already are)[12:06:14] <Paradoxon_> Shure..[12:06:17] <Paradoxon_> :)[12:06:17] <Technix> 2.) find out from the BPrinter functions how large (in pixels) each sheet is[12:06:30] <Technix> 3.) use BRects to coordinate the two[12:06:31] <Paradoxon_> already done..[12:07:00] <Paradoxon_> just not used in with PagdedView[12:07:02] <Paradoxon_> Jet[12:07:15] <Paradoxon_> Is just the First Debug Test ..[12:07:18] <Technix> and in print view mode, all you are doing is manipulating the objects in each BRect[12:08:14] <Paradoxon_> But PagedView isnt aware of the Displayed Objects its just aware of the added BView..[12:08:22] <Paradoxon_> int this Case the GraphEditor[12:08:39] <Paradoxon_> It should be possible to add whatever BView you want[12:08:48] <Technix> do you create PagedView as extended from a BView?[12:08:53] <Paradoxon_> Shure[12:09:01] <Paradoxon_> And PagedView takes care to do "dived" it into pages[12:09:14] <Paradoxon_> and Pass back the MouseEvents..[12:09:37] <Paradoxon_> https://svn.berlios.de/wsvn/projectconcepto/trunk/src/app/Document/PagedView.cpp -> MouseDown([12:09:45] <Paradoxon_> But the Problem is..[12:10:05] <Technix> link not working forme[12:10:11] <Paradoxon_> :([12:10:32] *** vbmithr has quit IRC[12:10:38] *** darbelo has left #haiku[12:11:25] <Paradoxon_> http://nopaste.info/0cc87c3847.html[12:11:46] <Paradoxon_> The Views added to the BBitmap somethimes[12:11:57] <Paradoxon_> Call a Invalidate[12:12:00] <Paradoxon_> and so an..[12:12:03] <Paradoxon_> and so on..[12:12:34] <Paradoxon_> But the BBitmapt dont care about locking the Offscreen Window its using to draw the content[12:12:53] <Paradoxon_> So i will be thrown at debugger sooner or latter[12:13:28] <Paradoxon_> Thats my main problem..[12:13:45] <Paradoxon_> beside Passing all Input related actions to the right View[12:14:09] <Technix> well, I think you have to lock any view before writing, and unlock it yourself[12:14:47] <Paradoxon_> hmm...[12:14:52] <Paradoxon_> but on realViews..[12:15:03] <Paradoxon_> You dont have Troubles with this..[12:15:04] <Technix> what is a realView?[12:15:19] <Paradoxon_> I added GraphEditor to RealView before..[12:15:24] <Paradoxon_> On a normal BView[12:15:26] <Paradoxon_> no bugs[12:15:32] <Paradoxon_> worked like a charm[12:15:41] <Paradoxon_> the Locking Debug call comes..[12:15:46] <Paradoxon_> also on the BTextView[12:16:06] <Paradoxon_> when it is added to The GraphEditor[12:16:21] <Paradoxon_> (to input NodeName) and so on..[12:16:25] <Paradoxon_> so not my fault..[12:17:12] <Technix> Sorry, I wish I could help more[12:17:32] *** {V}zzz has quit IRC[12:17:34] <Paradoxon_> Its ok..[12:17:37] <Paradoxon_> :)[12:17:44] <Technix> Maybe take a look at some other applications and see how they implement BViews, BBitmaps, etc[12:17:45] <Paradoxon_> So i will ask on Developer list :)[12:17:50] <Technix> that too[12:18:03] <Paradoxon_> I asked yesterday here..[12:18:13] <Paradoxon_> and they helped me well :)[12:18:33] <Paradoxon_> Thats the reason why you can see the first resulsts today :)[12:19:01] *** vbmithr has joined #haiku[12:19:13] <Paradoxon_> But thank you verry much vor your effort[12:19:18] <Technix> anytime[12:19:30] <Technix> I struggled with these things quite a while ago too, its not easy[12:19:45] <Technix> but some kind people helped me out, and I wrote a few things back in the day[12:19:45] *** bSON has quit IRC[12:19:59] <Paradoxon_> :)[12:20:09] <Paradoxon_> Sounded like you did before :-D[12:20:22] <Paradoxon_> sorry for my bad english..[12:21:12] <Technix> its quite alright. :P[12:22:01] <vbmithr> nobody with problems with libbe ?[12:22:22] *** tqh has quit IRC[12:22:54] <Technix> oh, there's always problems with that pesky libbe... :)[12:23:04] <Technix> what sort of problem are you having, vbmithr ?[12:24:42] *** hUMUNGUz has joined #haiku[12:24:53] <vbmithr> I'll copy the error[12:25:12] <vbmithr> enerated/objects/haiku/x86/release/libs/icon/libicon.a(Gradient.o): In function `BPrivate::Icon::Gradient::FitToBounds(BRect const &)':[12:25:15] <vbmithr> Gradient.cpp:(.text+0xe7e): undefined reference to `agg::trans_affine::rect_to_parl(double, double, double, double, double const *)'[12:25:18] <vbmithr> Gradient.cpp:(.text+0xe8b): undefined reference to `agg::trans_affine::multiply(agg::trans_affine const &)'[12:25:21] <vbmithr> It start with that.[12:25:39] <vbmithr> all "undefined references to.."[12:25:52] <vbmithr> it's when I try to build the haiku-image[12:26:12] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[12:27:38] <Technix> its almost like you're missing some headers perhaps?[12:28:22] <vbmithr> possible[12:28:31] <vbmithr> I just followed the procedure[12:28:37] <vbmithr> i'm building it on a linux system[12:29:06] <vbmithr> is there anything like a make clean with the jam system ?[12:29:21] *** zlominus_zzzz is now known as zlominus[12:29:25] <Technix> what compiler did you create?[12:29:29] <Technix> what version I mean[12:29:32] *** Stargater has quit IRC[12:29:36] <vbmithr> the old one[12:29:39] <vbmithr> 2.95[12:29:44] <vbmithr> previously[12:29:51] <vbmithr> I was using gcc4[12:30:00] <Technix> oh.[12:30:01] <vbmithr> but I've re-done a ./configure ...[12:30:13] <vbmithr> to switch to 2.95 versionenerated/objects/haiku/x86/release/libs/icon/libicon.a(Gradient.o): In function `BPrivate::Icon::Gradient::FitToBounds(BRect const &)':[12:30:16] <vbmithr> Gradient.cpp:(.text+0xe7e): undefined reference to `agg::trans_affine::rect_to_parl(double, double, double, double, double const *)'[12:30:19] <vbmithr> Gradient.cpp:(.text+0xe8b): undefined reference to `agg::trans_affine::multiply(agg::trans_affine const &)'[12:30:21] <Technix> hrm.. maybe blow away that folder and try it fresh?[12:30:22] <vbmithr> arf[12:30:25] <vbmithr> sorry.[12:30:30] <vbmithr> what folder ?[12:30:32] <vbmithr> buildtools ?[12:30:38] <Technix> yes[12:31:07] <vbmithr> good idea[12:32:29] *** Monni has quit IRC[12:33:52] *** Euver has joined #haiku[12:36:43] *** Tonik_ has joined #haiku[12:42:55] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[12:44:30] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[12:44:54] <ddew|bofh> heh, wonder if this classifys as sanity. doing a minix install on real hw[12:47:35] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[12:49:49] *** Paradoxon_ is now known as Paradoxon[12:51:16] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[12:52:37] *** {V} has quit IRC[12:52:46] *** {V} has joined #haiku[12:56:59] *** CIA-48 has quit IRC[12:58:05] *** nibble has joined #haiku[13:05:29] *** Hugen_ has joined #haiku[13:05:34] <Hugen_> hi all[13:05:37] <Hugen_> hi aljen[13:05:38] <Begasus> signing off[13:05:41] <Hugen_> hi Begasus[13:05:41] <Begasus> hi Hugen_ ;)[13:05:45] <Begasus> cya![13:05:48] <Hugen_> bye[13:06:11] <vbmithr> Same problem[13:06:18] <Begasus> plop[13:06:20] <vbmithr> Perhaps I have to say to jam to rebuild all[13:06:21] *** Begasus has quit IRC[13:09:12] <vbmithr> It is possible to tell jam to rebuild all ?[13:09:15] <vbmithr> like a make clean, make ?[13:10:24] <ddew|bofh> jam -a[13:12:12] <vbmithr> thanks[13:16:03] *** Poisson_Pilote has quit IRC[13:18:29] *** Poisson_Pilote has joined #haiku[13:19:29] *** mats has joined #haiku[13:20:31] *** leszek has joined #haiku[13:20:39] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[13:20:48] <leszek> hi[13:21:42] <ddew|bofh> hiya[13:22:31] *** CIA-49 has joined #haiku[13:22:44] *** andreasf has joined #haiku[13:24:14] *** Hugen_ has quit IRC[13:29:23] *** cankurt has joined #haiku[13:32:19] *** cankurt has quit IRC[13:35:50] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:35:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[13:36:12] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[13:39:47] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[13:49:11] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[13:51:56] *** mmadia has quit IRC[13:52:52] *** CIA-49 has quit IRC[13:57:55] *** johndrinkwater has joined #haiku[13:58:39] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[14:00:27] *** Korli has joined #haiku[14:00:27] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Korli[14:07:07] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[14:08:22] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku[14:08:37] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[14:09:32] *** vbmithr has quit IRC[14:10:35] *** vbmithr has joined #haiku[14:10:59] <vbmithr> The build succeded ![14:11:52] *** tqh has joined #haiku[14:13:59] <tqh> ah spring weather is so nice.[14:16:37] <Technix> congrats![14:18:08] *** CIA-49 has joined #haiku[14:21:36] *** Wiss has joined #haiku[14:24:16] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[14:27:14] *** vbmithr_haiku has joined #haiku[14:27:17] <vbmithr_haiku> Hello[14:30:31] *** absabs has quit IRC[14:31:07] <vbmithr_haiku> Does haiku support well r500 ati cards ?[14:31:14] <vbmithr_haiku> It seems that the display is a bit slow[14:33:17] <Technix> my uncle is a moron, I swear[14:33:31] <tqh> it's vesa atm, someone will work on radeon hd later on.[14:35:16] <vbmithr_haiku> ok![14:35:58] <JonathanThompson> Why do you say that, Technix?[14:36:11] * JonathanThompson notes Technix is clearly a monkey[14:36:22] <Technix> because I'm at work, and its 6:30am here, and he calls me asking where I am.[14:36:33] <Technix> he currently is living at my place for another 2 weeks[14:36:42] <Technix> so, he came home last night, I was gone (I work night shift)[14:37:13] <Technix> my schedule is fixed, he's been with me for over 3 months, and he STILL hasn't figured it out[14:37:20] <Technix> thus, I dub him a moron[14:38:44] * Technix throws a bannana at JonathanThompson :P[14:38:52] * JonathanThompson unpeels and eats[14:39:02] <Technix> banana even[14:39:28] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps he thought you were off away from the grounds, slacking?[14:39:36] <Technix> naw[14:39:42] <Technix> he just doesn't think[14:40:04] * JonathanThompson suddenly has a thought to write a song about comets to the tune of "M-bop"[14:40:23] <Technix> er... good luck with that[14:40:38] <JonathanThompson> "Hale----BOPP!"[14:40:44] <JonathanThompson> (Or however it's spelled)[14:40:52] <Technix> Haley?[14:40:57] <JonathanThompson> Proper names are a crapshoot.[14:41:17] * Technix kicks the bloody server he's attempting to log into[14:41:23] <JonathanThompson> No, there's a recently named comet named Hale-Boppe, or however they're spelled.[14:41:53] <JonathanThompson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_Hale-Bopp[14:42:49] <CIA-49> axeld * r25045 /haiku/trunk/ (7 files in 7 dirs):[14:42:49] <CIA-49> * Removed the old net_stack driver code, and the kernel socket interface.[14:42:49] <CIA-49> * Also removed the header files that belong to those files.[14:42:49] <CIA-49> * Only kept the userland_ipc.h header for now, to remember us about the[14:42:50] <CIA-49> former userland server driver (that I also removed - it can always be[14:42:51] <CIA-49> resurrected from SVN if needed).[14:42:52] <JonathanThompson> I suppose now you're wondering how I had a thought about a comet you've apparently not heard of, and a song that's likely not remembered by most, run through my head and influence me to start thinking of a song about it ;)[14:43:06] <Technix> WOW[14:43:14] <Technix> monumentous![14:43:28] <JonathanThompson> ?[14:43:39] <Technix> net_stack driver being ripped out[14:43:52] * JonathanThompson notes axeld slash and burning[14:44:23] <JonathanThompson> I suspect that Haiku currently has a better network stack than old BeOS.[14:44:29] <JonathanThompson> (At this point)[14:45:39] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[14:45:39] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[14:46:46] *** vbmithr_haiku has quit IRC[14:46:47] *** vbmithr has quit IRC[14:47:12] *** SprMa has quit IRC[14:47:27] *** vbmithr has joined #haiku[14:49:43] *** vbmithr has quit IRC[14:51:24] *** vbmithr has joined #haiku[14:59:46] <Technix> omg... :)[14:59:47] <Technix> http://www.journaldumac.com/images/-2008/02/acer.jpg[15:00:38] <JonathanThompson> There's always a joker in every bunch ;)[15:00:49] <Technix> What was he trying to pull!![15:00:50] <Technix> :)[15:01:13] <JonathanThompson> Now, the next question: were all the rest of the students using Mac OSX?[15:02:52] <Technix> oh most likely[15:03:08] * Technix just got 80% of Red Dwarf![15:03:20] <JonathanThompson> Ah, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a few using Windows and some using Linux or some other *ix.[15:04:00] <Technix> only 2 more seasons to track down... 7, 8[15:07:01] <Technix> hrm[15:07:12] <Technix> just realized I didn't bring a can opener for this can of cream corn[15:07:17] * JonathanThompson wonders over weird noise he's hearing from his computer[15:07:40] <Technix> you must be wondering loudly if its over the noise like that[15:07:53] <Poisson_Pilote> JonathanThompson, Mac OS is a *ix :p[15:08:09] <JonathanThompson> Yes, I know that, Poisson_Pilote:P[15:08:16] <JonathanThompson> Note I said "some other *ix"[15:08:29] <Poisson_Pilote> so does OS Classiccount as some other *ix ?:p[15:08:39] <Technix> Leatherman for the win![15:08:44] <JonathanThompson> Nope, it's a distinctly different animal.[15:08:56] * Technix has successfully outsmarted the cream of corn demigods[15:09:28] <JonathanThompson> I suspect at the time that picture was taken, most of those Macs were x86 and not running Classic.[15:09:51] <leszek> haha lol nice pic[15:11:22] <CIA-49> axeld * r25046 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/activitymonitor/ (ActivityView.cpp ActivityView.h SystemInfo.h):[15:11:22] <CIA-49> * Allow color drops to change the legend background color only for the[15:11:22] <CIA-49> replicant.[15:11:22] <CIA-49> * Implemented storing and restoring the color of the data sources.[15:11:22] <CIA-49> * Minor style fixes.[15:12:19] <Technix> you know, that kind of thing should be built into the replicator class itself[15:12:51] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[15:13:03] * JonathanThompson starts worrying that axeld is creating a real-life version of the Replicators from Stargate: SG1, all based on a small Haiku OS[15:13:14] <{V}> Technix, regarding red dwarf: bought or downloaded?[15:14:01] <Technix> torrents[15:14:51] <{V}> dvd images or xvids? ( I've got all seasons as xvids)[15:15:00] * JonathanThompson wonders if any snow fell in Mercer Island in the hours he was sleeping[15:15:13] <Technix> xvids[15:15:39] <Technix> I have nothing against the archaic process of creating and selling DVD's, mind you. I'm just against the high price.[15:15:43] <Technix> It's ridiculous[15:16:33] <Technix> you have season 7 and 8?[15:17:12] * JonathanThompson notes Bryan Varner got a good shake yesterday morning in a rude awakening[15:17:17] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC[15:17:19] <{V}> Technix, yup.[15:17:59] <Technix> if I get stuck finding them online, maybe we'll do a trade[15:18:19] <Technix> want me to shoot you my tv list?[15:18:29] <{V}> sure[15:18:41] <Technix> email?[15:19:15] <{V}> okay[15:20:42] <aljen> hey :)[15:20:55] <Technix> hey aljen[15:20:58] <{V}> brb[15:22:26] *** {V} has quit IRC[15:22:38] *** {V} has joined #haiku[15:24:36] *** Korli has quit IRC[15:26:54] *** Korli has joined #haiku[15:26:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Korli[15:29:32] <mmu_man> plop[15:29:35] <Technix> plop[15:29:42] <JonathanThompson> Fizz[15:29:44] <JonathanThompson> Fizz[15:29:52] * JonathanThompson awaits someone completing the line[15:32:53] <{V}> 'splode ?[15:33:04] <Technix> "oh what a relief it is"[15:33:13] <{V}> owww[15:33:18] * JonathanThompson notes Technix is an acid person[15:33:19] <{V}> never heard it[15:33:23] <Technix> you get my email, V?[15:33:26] <JonathanThompson> Alka-Seltzer.[15:33:29] <{V}> yeah[15:34:20] <{V}> now I'll just have to find something to read openoffice spreadsheet files ;)[15:34:34] * JonathanThompson suggests cat and a practiced eye[15:41:38] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[15:42:03] <Technix> well, it is free[15:43:00] <JonathanThompson> Credit card: debt trap[15:43:19] <JonathanThompson> Ah, but you don't even need to download and install cat ;)[15:43:44] <JonathanThompson> And, it helps develop powers of concentration to do all the conversions in your head ;)[15:43:57] *** aquarius has joined #haiku[15:45:49] <aquarius> A few questions about Haiku, after seeing it at LugRadio Live last weekend...[15:45:56] <aquarius> does it support suspend/resume on laptops?[15:46:07] *** oco has joined #haiku[15:46:54] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[15:47:03] <mmu_man> aquarius not yet[15:47:12] <aquarius> mmu_man: ah, ok[15:47:27] <mmu_man> there is an old apm driver from BeOS that might work (but only worked once for me)[15:47:41] <mmu_man> we have an acpi stack in, but it's not usable yet for suspend[15:47:58] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku[15:48:06] <aquarius> I really rather like the idea of having an OS that's as sleek as Haiku obviously is (just downloaded the image to play with it in qemu -- 20MB !!!111!!one! that's *tiny*. I was pretty impressed :))[15:48:16] <Technix> hehe[15:48:24] <ddew|bofh> impressive indeed[15:48:29] <aquarius> but I shut my laptop a lot and it needs to not eat battery while it's in my bag :)[15:48:45] <Technix> its not even close yet to R4.5 or R5, but it is good.. yup[15:48:52] <aquarius> I suppose I could start up afresh each go...is there session memory over reboots?[15:49:02] <ddew|bofh> in some areas it's surpassed r5 or r4[15:49:06] <aquarius> oh! I thought you guys had surpassed real BeOS these days :)[15:49:20] <aquarius> did R5 support suspend/resume? I imagine not, given the age of it[15:49:22] *** helf_ has quit IRC[15:49:27] <ddew|bofh> it's not even alpha yet :)[15:49:35] <CIA-49> julun * r25047 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/backgrounds/ (Backgrounds.cpp BackgroundsView.cpp):[15:49:35] <CIA-49> * resolved ticket #1880[15:49:35] <CIA-49> * implemented center on first start[15:49:35] <CIA-49> * removed TODO's as they where partly implemented[15:49:48] <aquarius> oh. It's pretty darn polished for a pre-alpha, I gotta tell you :)[15:50:16] <Teknomancer> i wonder if I have any boxes that will boot Haiku :) don't want to try it on VMWare...[15:50:39] <ddew|bofh> if you have supported hw it's pretty stable for normal usage[15:50:57] <ddew|bofh> as long as you don't poke it too hard[15:51:11] <aquarius> what does "don't poke it too hard" mean?[15:51:25] <Teknomancer> i had quite some fun trying to re-patch an unbootable BeOS after upgrading one of my boxes[15:51:33] <aquarius> I don't intend to try compiling fifteen things at once, or play five videos simultaneously or anything[15:51:36] <Teknomancer> too bad we cannot just grab drivers from linux without changes :P[15:51:38] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[15:51:49] <Penix> Teknomancer: nah, that's a good thing ;)[15:51:53] <mmadia> aquarius put your finger on your eyeball, now don't poke it too hard ; )[15:52:02] <aquarius> however, if "starting up firefox" counts as "poking it too hard" then I might go away and come back next year ;)[15:52:02] <ddew|bofh> poke too hard is to use the harddrive much, lots of I/O in general[15:52:14] <Technix> gah.. phoneeeeeeeesssssssssssssssss[15:52:15] * aquarius grins at mmadia :)[15:52:23] <ddew|bofh> firefox runs quite well except for some redrawing issues[15:52:25] <Teknomancer> Penix: well linux hardware support isn't too bad[15:52:28] * Technix has to get back to work.. stupid phones are ringing off hook[15:52:31] <aquarius> er! what happens if you stress the hard drive?[15:52:47] <ddew|bofh> you'll hit KDL[15:52:49] *** _Lucretia__ has quit IRC[15:52:57] <ddew|bofh> kernel debug land. aka panic[15:53:01] <Teknomancer> aquarius: it will delete your BFS :P hehe, well atleast one guy had his volume wiped out i think.. or maybe that was an Apri 1 joke[15:53:04] <aquarius> "haiku crashes" I can cope with. "haiku scribbles on your partition table" means that it gets its own laptop ;)[15:53:22] <ddew|bofh> i think the "eats up partition" bug is fixed[15:53:33] <JonathanThompson> I'd still suggest a separate PC.[15:53:37] <ddew|bofh> indeed[15:53:41] <Teknomancer> oh no it shouldn't ever have touch your MBR without your explicit instruction[15:53:50] <JonathanThompson> Remember: PRE-ALPHA![15:53:54] <Teknomancer> yeah[15:53:58] * aquarius grins. Yeah, "I think it's fixed" is not quite the hand-on-heart statement of confidence I was looking for ;)[15:54:07] <aquarius> pre-alpha, quite right[15:54:18] <Teknomancer> hehe that's why we say use a seperate box if you have to run it on real hardware[15:54:19] <aquarius> so, I shall dig a laptop out of the graveyard. )[15:54:20] <JonathanThompson> But, it still has unrecognized bugs ;)[15:54:46] <aquarius> if I'm going to be doing real usage (not just testing) and running Firefox, what's the recommended minimum memory?[15:56:14] <ddew|bofh> 512mb[15:56:26] <Teknomancer> huh, 256 i thought should be fine[15:56:27] <ddew|bofh> firefox eats ram like crazy[15:56:28] <aquarius> erf.[15:56:42] <ddew|bofh> 256 i'd say is the bare minimum[15:56:58] <aquarius> Not sure I have any laptops in the graveyard with half a gig. Machines with that much memory are in real use over here at Castle Cheapness ;)[15:57:01] <Teknomancer> is firefox's memory usage a bug (with haiku/ff on it) ??[15:57:12] <ddew|bofh> nah, it's just how ff works[15:57:24] <JonathanThompson> ff is a hog, period.[15:57:25] <aquarius> FF3 is quite a lot better at that.[15:57:26] <Teknomancer> because you surely wouldn't need 512 for BeOS running FF i was running it on 256 for years fine[15:57:43] <Teknomancer> but then again maybe I didn't have like 30 browser windows open[15:57:57] <JonathanThompson> Haiku isn't using swap yet, afaik.[15:58:07] <ddew|bofh> well haiku tends to panic once it runs out of ram[15:58:12] <aquarius> heh.[15:58:36] <Teknomancer> i really hope webkit and a good front end come soon, i don't like heavy stuff like FF/Thunderbird.[15:58:59] <Teknomancer> soon when haiku is ready for use would be fine actually[15:59:06] <aquarius> Would you characterise Haiku as "to be run if you intend to hack on it; if you don't want to hack on it, come back when we hit beta 1"?[15:59:15] <JonathanThompson> Yes.[15:59:18] <Technix> exactly.[15:59:19] * aquarius nods.[15:59:28] <JonathanThompson> Use if tester.[15:59:37] <Technix> no no.. "Use if mental"[15:59:38] <Technix> :)[15:59:45] <Technix> if you realllly, like pain[15:59:46] <ddew|bofh> testers are good, we need more of them[15:59:48] <aquarius> Pity -- I was pretty impressed last weekend :)[15:59:51] * JonathanThompson notes Technix[15:59:58] <Teknomancer> no we just need more box sacrifices :P[16:00:00] <Technix> its just the way it is at the moment, nothing bad[16:00:23] <ddew|bofh> don't worry, i'm doing my weekly sacrifices. that ought to suffice ;)[16:00:28] <[Katisu]> ping mmu_man[16:00:33] <mmu_man> ..[16:00:38] <Paradoxon> :)[16:00:43] <[Katisu]> did you get Haiku to build on Dano?[16:00:56] <Technix> its like that sweet car chasis sitting in your garage, and some Italian, French, and German engineers keep coming over on the weekends to fix it up while you stand there with beer in hand[16:01:09] <Technix> and you JUST KNOW its going to turn out to be a Shelby[16:01:20] <ddew|bofh> hehe[16:01:27] <Technix> damn, that's one sweet analogy[16:01:28] *** nutela has joined #haiku[16:01:40] <tqh> I like the beer part :)[16:01:41] <JonathanThompson> Something to always keep in context with such a piece of software, aquarius: it only takes one uninitialized or dangling pointer or array overwrite in the kernel to hose stuff up, and it may be completely invisible and won't crash the system immediately, if at all: but you don't know what it wrote on ;)[16:01:41] <ddew|bofh> i wouldn't trust a french within a mile of my car[16:01:43] <[Katisu]> I can't get InputServer to build due to the kSystemKeymapName[16:01:44] <Teknomancer> Shelby?[16:01:45] <Teknomancer> heh[16:01:49] <Teknomancer> more like a Porsche[16:01:50] <Teknomancer> :P[16:01:51] <mmu_man> [Katisu] in zeta it builds fine[16:02:02] <Technix> ddew|bofh: lolol[16:02:08] <aquarius> JonathanThompson: yeah, that's why I'm here asking questions rather than putting it in a separate partition on this machine :)[16:02:11] <[Katisu]> I'm using r5[16:02:12] <nutela> huh is this new? : ./configure GCC version 2.95.3-haiku-080323 is required![16:02:12] <Technix> hey now, we have to pretend to like them, mmu_man is here.[16:02:26] <ddew|bofh> good point :P[16:02:44] <Technix> mmu_man and I go waaay back... :P[16:02:50] <JonathanThompson> You're actually probably somewhat safe from having it write on stuff you care about if you have those partitions on a completely separate hard drive that's never mounted in Haiku, aquarius.[16:03:00] *** {V} has quit IRC[16:03:05] <ddew|bofh> french cars are great, weeks can go by without them breaking down[16:03:05] *** {V} has joined #haiku[16:03:12] <[Katisu]> mmu_man, how did you fix it, just delete the generated keymap?[16:03:18] <JonathanThompson> But, I still wouldn't do that with a hard drive that's not mounted (that there's a driver for) that you can't afford a random write ;)[16:03:36] <mmu_man> [Katisu] what's the prob ?[16:03:58] *** [mark] has joined #haiku[16:04:10] <[Katisu]> mmu_man, kSystemKeymapName undeclared[16:04:12] <JonathanThompson> The odds of an unexpected write to an unmounted hard drive that has a driver are very slim, but I'm not convinced they're exactly zero ;)[16:04:33] <[Katisu]> mmu_man, line 356 in InputServer.cpp[16:04:47] * Technix remembers that line well[16:04:53] <mmu_man> [Katisu] ah right... there are actually 2 versions of that include file, one is too old, just remove it[16:05:32] <aquarius> JonathanThompson: yeah, that's what I'd do, but this laptop only has one HDD in it. I'll have a poke around in the graveyard and see if I've got something studly enough to run haiku, for fun :)[16:05:41] <[Katisu]> mmu_man, which include file?[16:05:42] <Technix> It was a night like any other. Except for the sweet sound of someone pounding away on a keyboard in the distance. Suddenly a shout! "Damn you GCC!", exclaimed the short frenchmen.[16:05:43] <mmadia> nutela the newer gcc is somewhat new...[16:06:15] *** helf has joined #haiku[16:06:16] <mmadia> mmlr provided a link to the new gcc + instructions on haiku-development , i don't have the link to the freelists archives atm[16:06:17] <mmu_man> [Katisu] query SystemKeymap.h[16:06:20] <helf> matt![16:06:26] <tqh> ok, who gave technix coffee?[16:06:30] <JonathanThompson> Floor![16:06:37] <mmadia> josh! wattup?[16:06:38] <JonathanThompson> Oh, wait...[16:06:45] <helf> heh[16:06:47] <helf> hey jt[16:06:56] <helf> mmadia, i was going to ask you something a day or so ago[16:07:02] <helf> and now ive totally forgotten what it was...[16:07:07] * JonathanThompson lobs a 2008 Chevrolet Cobalt SS at helfTurbocharged Coupe[16:07:15] <helf> you bought another car? :P[16:07:16] <JonathanThompson> That didn't quite work as expected...[16:07:19] <mmadia> 42[16:07:19] <JonathanThompson> Nah.[16:07:35] <helf> gas jumped to 3.399 for 87 here :([16:07:41] <JonathanThompson> But hey, now you're turbocharged, helf ;)[16:07:47] <helf> costs me 91usd to fill up now. im so glad my van doesnt require a higher octane[16:07:53] * JonathanThompson wishes he could get gas that cheap here[16:07:57] <mmadia> tqh so far, no one's mentioned any out of the ordinary issues with the re-ordered builds.[16:08:09] * Teknomancer goes to eat some unhealthy noodles[16:08:11] *** Teknomancer is now known as _Tek[16:08:25] <helf> JonathanThompson, it sucks when you are on a barely higher than minimum wage job .. :([16:08:26] <JonathanThompson> At the Gas Station Next Door (no kidding) it's currently $3.69.9 for 87 octane.[16:08:32] <helf> $20 gets me 5 days[16:08:52] <JonathanThompson> helf that's your not-so-subtle-life-hint to get a bike and keep in better shape ;)[16:09:52] <helf> hehe[16:09:52] <JonathanThompson> helf, I may get snow here this weekend in Mercer Island: it has definitely fallen in the area :)[16:09:58] <helf> nice :D[16:10:03] <helf> it rained here last night..[16:10:06] <helf> but its been pretty warm[16:10:07] <tqh> mmadia, ah that's good. I guess it's good enough to start working on commit then.[16:10:09] <helf> in the 70s[16:10:10] <JonathanThompson> I was running in a hail storm last night while it was in the upper 40's.[16:10:26] <JonathanThompson> People around here are all confuzzled and probably freaking out :D[16:10:31] <helf> heh[16:10:46] <JonathanThompson> And throw the hail in with some thunder, winds, whatever...[16:10:48] <helf> JonathanThompson, I want t oget a bike. The bike i want is $5k though.. and another 3-500bucks for the electric kit.. :P[16:10:49] <JonathanThompson> Fun times![16:11:09] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku[16:11:14] *** _Lucretia__ has joined #haiku[16:11:22] <JonathanThompson> After the workout session last night, I was contemplating going swimming in the apartment pool for the first time, just to be perverse :D[16:11:33] <helf> lol[16:11:39] <helf> swimming while it scold rocks :)[16:11:52] <JonathanThompson> It's a heated pool, I believe.[16:12:05] <JonathanThompson> It's currently creating a nice steam view :)[16:12:20] <helf> I swam at one of my sisters friends houses begfore while it was snowing :) they had a nice heated pool[16:12:22] <helf> was really nice[16:12:36] <helf> it was about 20f outside and snowing fairly hard, but no wind or anything..[16:12:47] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[16:13:06] <JonathanThompson> The trainer last night had me run up and down the steps on the hill in the nearby park on Mercer Island, where the steps continue for more than 2 blocks up a steep hill.[16:13:21] <JonathanThompson> Stairs steep enough to have switchbacks :)[16:13:49] <nutela> mmadia but is it needed? I just re downloaded the tree after I messed up something and now it won't build[16:13:58] * JonathanThompson notes there's not likely to be any stairs like this in the entire state of Florida[16:14:11] <[Katisu]> mmu_man, thanks![16:14:20] * [Katisu] crosses his fingers and hopes it builds[16:15:01] <nutela> and why is it that the tree is in 'haiku' and not 'trunk' ?[16:15:04] <mmadia> nutela 100% needed.[16:15:13] <helf> JonathanThompson, probably not :)[16:15:14] <nutela> since when?[16:15:23] <mmadia> around march 32 2008[16:15:36] <nutela> gcc version 2.95.3-beos-060710[16:15:43] <JonathanThompson> This hill is high enough that if it were artificial, it'd start qualifying for high-rise status, I suspect ;)[16:15:51] *** aquarius has left #haiku[16:16:07] <JonathanThompson> At least, I'm certain there's > 100 feet elevation difference in a short run.[16:16:20] <nutela> hm also for building R5 stuff? mmadia[16:16:40] <mmadia> nutela more than likely, let my try and dig up that email...[16:16:56] <mmadia> ... last time this was asked, mmlr magically logged in[16:16:58] <[Katisu]> cross-compiler and how to install it are on website[16:17:44] <[Katisu]> http://www.haiku-os.org/development[16:17:53] <[Katisu]> GCC Haiku cross compiler 2.95.3 (needed to build Haiku in BeOS R5 or later)[16:18:20] <mmadia> nice, i didnt realize the website was updated[16:18:21] <[Katisu]> installing -[16:18:25] <[Katisu]> http://www.haiku-os.org/documents/dev/getting_the_source_code[16:18:54] *** _Lucretia__ is now known as _Lucretia_[16:19:13] *** mmadia is now known as mmadia_[16:19:39] *** mmadia_ has quit IRC[16:19:53] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[16:21:14] *** m0ns0on has joined #haiku[16:22:41] <stpere> morning[16:22:46] <helf> hola[16:22:49] <Technix> hi stpere[16:23:12] <JonathanThompson> helf, if I were to get a new car like that one mentioned, most of the time it'd be a total waste around here.[16:23:25] <helf> yeah[16:23:25] <helf> probably[16:23:29] <JonathanThompson> More often than I care to admit, traffic is super snarled.[16:23:30] <helf> couldnt do anything with it[16:23:45] <JonathanThompson> That, and that car mentioned gets worse mileage than my mundane 2001 Saturn SL2.[16:23:59] <JonathanThompson> I live nominally (shortest distance) 5.4 miles from work...[16:24:07] <JonathanThompson> It took me 55 minutes to get home Wednesday night.[16:24:24] <JonathanThompson> I could have run home, and pissed off all the people on I-90 as I passed them on foot ;)[16:24:38] <JonathanThompson> (And still gotten home sooner)[16:24:45] <m0ns0on> Hey[16:24:46] <m0ns0on> :-)[16:24:51] *** m0ns0on is now known as m0ns00n[16:25:05] <helf> lol JonathanThompson[16:25:17] <helf> like in office space where that old man with a walker is passing everyone :P[16:25:25] <m0ns00n> How compatible will Haiku be with BeOS?[16:25:29] <JonathanThompson> I've not seen that :D[16:25:38] <JonathanThompson> But, sometimes traffic around here is like that.[16:25:41] <m0ns00n> If I develop an app for BeOS, will it surely recompile on Haiku without modifications?[16:25:42] <Yaroze> m0ns00n: try it out :)[16:26:08] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: I'm thinking of porting an app I made for another OS to BeOS (will be kindof a rewrite in parts)[16:26:16] <JonathanThompson> In November 2006 I was on westbound WA-520 going towards Seattle, and found it took me 35 minutes to drive a distance I could have readily walked in 15 :P[16:26:17] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: http://www.sub-ether.org/lunapaint/[16:26:37] <tqh> Beos and Haiku are supposed to be API compatible so it will work.[16:26:44] <Yaroze> m0ns00n: the apps ive tried ran out of the box without recompile :)[16:26:54] <JonathanThompson> I guess I don't feel so bad now having been stuck replacing my car's water pump a couple weeks earlier...[16:27:00] <tqh> although Haiku has new goodies, like better layout manager[16:27:17] <JonathanThompson> My engine fan came on several times during that commute, which is a rare situation for those cars.[16:27:24] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: That's wonderful[16:27:35] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: I'm gonna use some time today to setup the main source, and see how far I get[16:28:00] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: What is your estimation of when Haiku will be able to run stable, natively?[16:28:09] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: Provided the hw is supported[16:28:11] * JonathanThompson intones, "When it's done!"[16:28:20] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[16:28:32] <m0ns00n> JonathanThompson: Last time I tried haiku on qemu, it seemed very mature[16:28:41] <Technix> wwwwwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen ........... iitttttttts doooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwn[16:28:42] <JonathanThompson> How long ago was that?[16:28:50] <Technix> hehe[16:29:04] <m0ns00n> JonathanThompson: Three or four weeks[16:29:41] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps I'm out of date, but AFAIK it still doesn't support actually using a swap file.[16:29:54] *** Kokito has quit IRC[16:30:03] <JonathanThompson> Thus, it is somewhat limited on the hardware I've got to run it on that it'll run on ;)[16:30:23] <mmadia> there should be a kick rule for that question : P[16:30:27] * JonathanThompson would love to have it work on his iMac with 4 GB RAM[16:30:30] <m0ns00n> Hmm ok[16:30:47] * Technix has to go kick another server[16:30:55] <ddew|bofh> wh00p, recompiling and reinstalling minix was way comfortable. took about 2 mins on an old p4 :)[16:31:03] * JonathanThompson kicks Technix into kicking another server[16:31:04] <helf> minix? :P[16:31:06] <helf> why? :)[16:31:09] <m0ns00n> ddew|bofh: p4 old??? =)[16:31:11] <helf> you know[16:31:13] <m0ns00n> ddew|bofh: You must be joking =)[16:31:14] <helf> p4 is ooold :)[16:31:18] <JonathanThompson> helf, why do you use so many old computers and OS's? :D[16:31:22] <ddew|bofh> i didn't even have to reboot to do the reinstall[16:31:25] <helf> in the grand scheme of things[16:31:30] <helf> JonathanThompson, : suhsh :P[16:31:33] <helf> im selling them all[16:31:36] <ddew|bofh> microkernel FTW![16:31:40] <helf> heh[16:31:43] <JonathanThompson> What, don't let reality interfere with reality? :)[16:31:43] <Technix> damn dell poweredge piece of craps[16:31:46] <m0ns00n> helf: If a p4 is old then you must be young =) Or you're calling me an old fart![16:31:46] <m0ns00n> =)[16:32:03] <helf> m0ns00n, im 20 years old and use computers made in 1991... but im still calling the p4 old ;P[16:32:10] <JonathanThompson> m0ns00n, you should know about his hardware/software collection :P[16:32:10] <Yaroze> p4? no thats 20 years into the future![16:32:13] <ddew|bofh> the machine's 7 year old. in computer time that's ages[16:32:21] <helf> heh[16:32:28] <helf> JonathanThompson, i sold my trash 80 m100 :)[16:32:28] <JonathanThompson> Yaroze: it was a 20 year advancement in computing furnaces :D[16:32:29] <m0ns00n> This computer is a 600mhz p3 - borderline old =)[16:32:45] <m0ns00n> My Amiga is old![16:32:46] <m0ns00n> =)[16:32:50] <Yaroze> 68k ftw[16:32:56] <m0ns00n> hehe[16:32:59] <ddew|bofh> the oldest machine i have around is an old macintosh classic[16:33:03] <Yaroze> m0ns00n: get a new amiga then :D[16:33:06] * JonathanThompson wishes his family hadn't tossed the Apple 2C after he moved away[16:33:24] <helf> m0ns00n, my main computer at home (unless i sell it) is a 33mhz 040 thats 17 years old :P[16:33:24] * Yaroze looks at his Mac SE/30 :)[16:33:27] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: Hehe, I don't plan on it! It's a bees' nest that community[16:33:46] * helf looks at his beige and silver ti 99/4as[16:33:47] <JonathanThompson> From throwing the power switch to editing a maximal sized word processing document in 8 seconds flat, from a floppy drive![16:34:01] <Yaroze> m0ns00n: http://yaroze.se/upload/screengrab.png :)[16:34:02] *** baskus has joined #haiku[16:34:07] <helf> Yaroze, 68k is my favorite cpu :P[16:34:32] * JonathanThompson bets helf has MC68000 tattooed somewhere on his body[16:34:35] <nutela> mmadia and what about net_server users?[16:34:42] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: http://www.sub-ether.org/lunapaint/upload/032.jpg[16:34:53] <nutela> the Haiku cross compiler is for bone only[16:34:54] <Yaroze> :)[16:35:01] <mmadia> nutela iirc, that gcc works on net_server.[16:35:06] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: http://www.sub-ether.org/lunapaint/upload/mice.jpg[16:35:11] <Yaroze> m0ns00n: maybe you should checkout AROS :)[16:35:14] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: That's the app I want to port[16:35:18] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: My app that.... =)[16:35:21] *** dannyx has joined #haiku[16:35:25] <dannyx> hiiiiiiii[16:35:30] <nutela> i hope so m0ns00n[16:35:31] <helf> my turn![16:35:34] <nutela> eh mmadia[16:35:35] <helf> http://helf.freeshell.org/screengrab-02-15-2008.jpg[16:35:36] <helf> :D[16:35:37] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: I've been working on aros code since 2004[16:35:44] <oco> nutela : the cross compiler should work on R5[16:35:57] <Yaroze> NeXT ftw![16:36:00] <helf> ;P[16:36:01] <mmadia> nutela check the freelists archives for haiku-development for march + april 2008[16:36:03] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: But I've kinda lost faith in the project, so I'm looking at making a linux port, and a haiku port[16:36:07] <helf> I might be selling mine if anyones interested[16:36:15] * JonathanThompson needs another space heater[16:36:18] <JonathanThompson> NOT![16:36:19] <nutela> nice helf[16:36:21] <helf> heh[16:36:22] <JonathanThompson> I have enough already...[16:36:31] <JonathanThompson> This climate doesn[16:36:32] <helf> JonathanThompson, still have your dual p2?[16:36:35] <nutela> thanks oco[16:36:38] <JonathanThompson> Doesn't require much heat.[16:36:39] <JonathanThompson> Dual p3.[16:36:45] <helf> whatever[16:36:48] <JonathanThompson> Yes, I do.[16:36:51] <Yaroze> Dual P3 500 here :O[16:36:59] <JonathanThompson> Sitting < 2 inches from this iMac.[16:37:06] <JonathanThompson> 450 for mine ;)[16:37:11] <helf> my two x86 machines I use are a 1.4 tualatin-s and a pentium 75 :P[16:37:21] * JonathanThompson notes helf is an extremist[16:37:22] <helf> my mac is a 933 powermac G4[16:37:34] <m0ns00n> Nothing wrong with old computers[16:37:37] * Yaroze misses his PowerMac G4 Dual 450[16:37:49] <helf> im updating my powermac to leopard tonight[16:37:54] <helf> :)[16:38:00] <JonathanThompson> Definitely one Intel processor of 32/64 bit vintage I'll not buy is any P4.[16:38:03] <m0ns00n> The Moores Law Compensator sees to it that new computers remain slow =)[16:38:09] <helf> i love that[16:38:12] <helf> its sad, m0ns00n :([16:38:17] <helf> JonathanThompson, yeah, they are nto worth it[16:38:29] <helf> JonathanThompson, my 1.4 tualatin-s keeps up with my brothers 1.8 p4[16:38:30] <JonathanThompson> Again, I state: they're a 20 year advance in the technology for computing furnaces :)[16:38:35] <Poisson_Pilote> helf, won't Leopard be really sluggish ?[16:38:48] <helf> Poisson_Pilote, until i get some more ram, it probably will be a bit[16:38:51] <Poisson_Pilote> 933 IS slow after all :p[16:38:53] <m0ns00n> We got a new CoreDuo 4gig ram super pc in the office the other day, with windows vista.. it crashed on hibernation[16:39:07] <helf> i only have 768mb. im going to max the ram at 1.5gb, get a better agp video card, and a scsi card with a fast drive[16:39:11] <JonathanThompson> Buggy drivers, most likely.[16:39:12] <helf> should run great at that point[16:39:13] *** Tonik_ has quit IRC[16:39:14] <Yaroze> Poisson_Pilote: what would you know :)[16:39:15] <mmadia> i've been trying to install Haiku on this .. http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/numbers/machine/abacus.jpg ; )[16:39:27] <Poisson_Pilote> m0ns00n, haha :D A friend of mine had to give a presentation with his laptop on Vista, it crashed 2 times in 30 minutes[16:39:28] <helf> Poisson_Pilote, but, yes, a 933 g4 is fairly slow :)[16:39:51] <JonathanThompson> Was it running 32 bit Vista or 64 bit, m0ns00n?[16:39:52] <helf> Poisson_Pilote, but i use a 75mhz laptop and a 33mhz machine all the time.. so 933mhz "flies" ;P[16:39:58] <stpere> knock knock[16:40:00] <Poisson_Pilote> helf, Leopard runs just fine on my macbook core 2 duo with 1 gigabyte of ram - so i wouldn't now about that :D[16:40:07] <helf> :P[16:40:09] <stpere> car is b0rken[16:40:12] <JonathanThompson> Nobody home, go away, stpere! :D[16:40:14] <helf> i refuse to spend the money on a new computer[16:40:17] <m0ns00n> JonathanThompson: 32bit I think, isn't coreduo 32-bit?[16:40:22] <helf> i just dont need it :) i have my consoles for games.. soo.. :P[16:40:23] <stpere> JonathanThompson: :)[16:40:24] <m0ns00n> JonathanThompson: I don't recall...[16:40:33] <Poisson_Pilote> helf, don't you want to compile haiku faster ? :p[16:40:34] <JonathanThompson> Core 2 Duo, or just old Core Duo?[16:40:41] <Yaroze> m0ns00n: planning to setup an amithlon machine :)[16:40:41] <m0ns00n> JonathanThompson: Anyhow, vista feels sluggish on that hw[16:40:43] <Poisson_Pilote> JonathanThompson, Core 2 Duo at 1.83 ;)[16:40:48] <helf> Poisson_Pilote, im not touching haiku until its at a stable release point :P[16:40:50] <JonathanThompson> 64 bit capable.[16:40:50] <Poisson_Pilote> I bought it in september[16:40:52] <Poisson_Pilote> yup[16:41:03] <stpere> is buying a mac mini still a good idea these days?[16:41:04] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: I'm pretty much done with Amiga now.. But I will still keep an eye out on AROS[16:41:13] <helf> buying a mac mini was ever a good idea?[16:41:18] <Poisson_Pilote> stpere, I think they ought to be upgraded sometime soon[16:41:19] <JonathanThompson> Good for what, stpere?[16:41:24] <Poisson_Pilote> and yeah, mac minis are :/[16:41:36] <Poisson_Pilote> you get a much better desktop for the same price[16:41:36] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: I did follow Syllable for a time, but it's not really usable yet, and they are paying too much attention to the server aspects of the OS...[16:41:53] <stpere> JonathanThompson: good for having a minimal mac to play with :P[16:42:07] <Poisson_Pilote> minimal and mac don't go well together[16:42:11] <JonathanThompson> If you've got old hardware you can reuse, but minimal space, a Mac Mini is a good way to go, if you can stand the expansion limits.[16:42:11] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: Haiku is the perfect match, unless they also get sucked into the bling / bloat and server duudies[16:42:26] <Yaroze> m0ns00n: isnt their server os Linux-based lol?[16:43:00] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: Nono[16:43:09] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: It's a custom kernel, was forked from Atheos[16:43:20] <helf> no[16:43:21] <m0ns00n> Yaroze: Syllable is inspired by AmigaOS and BeOS[16:43:29] <helf> syllables server OS runs ontop of a linux kernel iirc[16:43:29] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[16:43:41] <helf> the desktop version run son its own[16:43:46] <nutela> have you run it m0ns00n, syllable that is?[16:43:47] <m0ns00n> helf: perhaps the server os, but syllable is an atheos fork[16:43:55] <helf> i know[16:44:00] <m0ns00n> nutela: yeah, but it is highly unstable[16:44:02] <helf> i was just stating the fact about the server version :P[16:44:07] <Poisson_Pilote> who would want to use a server other than openBSD anyway :-°[16:44:09] <m0ns00n> helf: good =)[16:44:14] <Poisson_Pilote> (or vista server :D)[16:44:16] <helf> Poisson_Pilote, for real :P[16:44:21] <m0ns00n> Poisson_Pilote: Those who have a feel for apt? =)[16:44:31] <Poisson_Pilote> hehe ^^[16:45:11] <nutela> ah mmadia http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/nielx/2008-03-31/haiku_alpha_1_status_update_2[16:45:17] <nutela> missed it[16:45:49] <mmadia> hrmm.. syllable running on an Eee PC :: http://web.syllable.org/pages/index.html[16:45:52] <nutela> m0ns00n is it beos like? like repsondsive and such?[16:46:10] <m0ns00n> nutela: well it is supposed to be.. but they aren't really working much on the gui[16:46:18] <m0ns00n> nutela: which is why I'm not following it so closely[16:46:25] <Poisson_Pilote> Speaking of Eee PC, anybody know how well Haiku does on one ?[16:46:29] *** meisje has quit IRC[16:46:31] <helf> they havent progressed much lately[16:46:50] <Poisson_Pilote> Haiku + Eee would be a winner combination IMO[16:47:21] <m0ns00n> Poisson_Pilote: Well, if it runs stable, sure it would =) How does haiku compare to BeOS in speed?[16:47:27] * JonathanThompson would love to see an iPhone running Haiku[16:47:44] <Poisson_Pilote> JonathanThompson, you have an iphone ? :o[16:47:49] <helf> yeah, poor chap[16:47:50] <JonathanThompson> Yes.[16:47:53] <Poisson_Pilote> :/[16:47:55] <Poisson_Pilote> My condoleances[16:47:58] <helf> ;P[16:47:59] <Poisson_Pilote> =D[16:48:05] <JonathanThompson> Good target market for software development: people will want software on their toys ;)[16:48:06] <helf> it looks pretty spiffy..[16:48:16] <nutela> bbl thanks for the info all[16:48:17] <helf> ill stick with my treo and real keypad, though :P[16:48:22] <Poisson_Pilote> well I used to contribute on Rockbox for iPod a bit, and the devs got stuck at 5.5 G ipods[16:48:26] <JonathanThompson> And, it has a much larger potential market than Haiku does in practical terms :)[16:48:27] <Poisson_Pilote> same goes for ipod linux[16:48:49] <Poisson_Pilote> So I don't think bootloading in the last gen ipods/iphones would be doable at the moment[16:48:58] <Poisson_Pilote> Apple has really got nasty in its firmware protections[16:49:00] <JonathanThompson> I have to ask: have 4 million people that might use Haiku even *heard* of it?[16:49:37] <Poisson_Pilote> What are you saying, that we need apple-like ads ? :D[16:49:39] <Poisson_Pilote> iKu[16:50:00] <JonathanThompson> "Hi, I'm Haiku, (And I'm Vista!)"[16:50:26] <AlienSoldier> i hope haiku get to 100K user and never go higher[16:50:34] <Poisson_Pilote> haha[16:50:58] * JonathanThompson wonders what the actual BeOS user base was sized at when at peak[16:51:08] <helf> 20k[16:51:14] <Poisson_Pilote> 'Hi I'm haiku. Want to see my BeOS compatibility ?"[16:51:26] * JonathanThompson notes a piece of toilet paper stuck to helf's answer[16:51:34] <helf> 'Hi, I'm Haiku! I can run Quake 2!"[16:52:00] *** dannyx is now known as air[16:52:03] <AlienSoldier> it never was more than 400 full time user, but it got million downloads[16:52:10] <stpere> be.com is a crappy page[16:52:16] <air> yeah[16:52:26] <JonathanThompson> Downloads aren't a very useful number by themselves.[16:52:50] <Poisson_Pilote> Well they represent the "curiosity" factor[16:52:59] <JonathanThompson> The next question would be: how many found they couldn't actually run it once they had it?[16:53:06] <AlienSoldier> a lot[16:53:20] <air> so it was a miniscule OS back in the 90's and now you guys are replicating it? but why?[16:53:21] <m0ns00n> How many devs are on Haiku atm?[16:53:22] <AlienSoldier> and probably many never even found time to try to use it[16:53:37] <JonathanThompson> Why is anything done, air?[16:53:44] <helf> because we can?[16:53:46] <air> because of the need[16:53:52] <helf> We liked the OS :P[16:53:53] <Poisson_Pilote> m0ns00n, if someone on the mailing list bothered to answe my mail, they'd have one more :D[16:53:58] <air> some stuff is done because ppl have nothing else to do[16:54:00] <air> like haiku i guess[16:54:03] <air> stupid[16:54:04] <JonathanThompson> Even as miniscule of a userbase as it has had, it's still far more useful than the reason people climb (or attempt to) Mount Everest :D[16:54:04] <helf> uh[16:54:06] <m0ns00n> mailinglists are evil[16:54:07] <m0ns00n> =)[16:54:19] <stpere> Poisson_Pilote: wanna help me? :)[16:54:20] <helf> wow, air. way to insult people[16:54:23] <air> yeah[16:54:24] <m0ns00n> I don't care of the userbase as long as the OS is stable! =)[16:54:25] <helf> *thumbs up*[16:54:26] <JonathanThompson> You can actually do useful, gainful work or play games on Haiku/BeOS.[16:54:35] <air> ok, keep wasting your lives[16:54:38] <JonathanThompson> What can you do as a result of climbing Mount Everest?[16:54:40] <Poisson_Pilote> stpere, sure, did you read my mail ?[16:54:41] *** air has left #haiku[16:54:44] <stpere> yep[16:54:49] <ddew|bofh> heh, turd[16:54:50] <stpere> I'm not a core programmer tho[16:54:54] <stpere> but I have a bug[16:55:00] <stpere> and I'm looking to solve it[16:55:00] <JonathanThompson> At least he self-selected himself out of here :)[16:55:01] <helf> what a douche bag[16:55:04] <AlienSoldier> it did have a small user base, but many respected it. I can say lot of folk knew about the OS even if they never tried it themself[16:55:15] <helf> wtf is with people like that?[16:55:24] <helf> we need a serious gene pool cleaning :P[16:55:25] <ddew|bofh> userbase aside, it's a very slick os to work with[16:55:27] *** air has joined #haiku[16:55:30] <air> Call me a douce bag again and experience pain[16:55:31] *** air has left #haiku[16:55:35] <helf> ok douche bag[16:55:40] <ddew|bofh> douche bag[16:55:40] <Poisson_Pilote> douce bag[16:55:40] <m0ns00n> haha[16:55:47] <stpere> douche bag?[16:55:47] *** air has joined #haiku[16:55:51] <air> pain is comming[16:55:52] *** air has left #haiku[16:55:53] <helf> so who's trolling?[16:56:01] <helf> :)[16:56:02] <m0ns00n> he's gonna try winnuke on you helf[16:56:04] <m0ns00n> =)[16:56:07] <helf> heh[16:56:10] <stpere> someone, please ban, I'm afraid of the following :)[16:56:11] <helf> good thing im behind a corporate firewall![16:56:12] <JonathanThompson> air is a douche bag! :)[16:56:14] *** Poisson_Pilote is now known as Pain[16:56:16] * JonathanThompson awaits his return[16:56:17] *** meisje has joined #haiku[16:56:18] <helf> oh no![16:56:19] <Pain> Hi, i'm pain[16:56:20] <helf> its pain![16:56:24] <ddew|bofh> *eek*[16:56:28] <Pain> As air said, i'm here[16:56:34] *** Pain is now known as Poisson_Pilote[16:56:46] <m0ns00n> Neat trick![16:56:47] <m0ns00n> :-P[16:56:48] <Poisson_Pilote> seriously %)[16:57:04] <m0ns00n> Does Vision support the /sound tag[16:57:08] <m0ns00n> /sound beer.wav[16:57:09] <m0ns00n> :-P[16:57:14] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[16:57:19] <stpere> ppl, rename yourself yournick|pain[16:57:24] *** stpere is now known as stpere|pain[16:57:27] *** helf is now known as helf|pain[16:57:30] *** Poisson_Pilote is now known as Poisson_Pilote|p[16:57:30] *** Maurice1 has joined #haiku[16:57:33] *** m0ns00n is now known as m0ns00n|pain[16:57:35] <m0ns00n|pain> :-D[16:57:36] <ddew|bofh> ut why?[16:57:41] <ddew|bofh> *but[16:57:42] <Poisson_Pilote|p> oops, my nick is too long :D[16:57:49] *** Poisson_Pilote|p is now known as PilotFish|pain[16:57:50] <helf|pain> heh[16:57:51] <stpere|pain> oh, just to kid air[16:57:58] <PilotFish|pain> ^^[16:57:59] <JonathanThompson> air is a douche bag![16:58:00] <stpere|pain> if he comes back[16:58:05] <PilotFish|pain> no, a douCe bag[16:58:06] <JonathanThompson> Man, he's not rejoined![16:58:08] <PilotFish|pain> that's what he said[16:58:15] <JonathanThompson> All that time, no douche bag to call one![16:58:21] <helf|pain> heh[16:58:24] <helf|pain> he's out DoS[16:58:31] <stpere|pain> :([16:58:37] <ddew|bofh> air: #haiku's resident douchebag :)[16:58:42] <stpere|pain> guess, we can return to our lives[16:58:46] *** stpere|pain is now known as stpere[16:58:48] <stpere> :)[16:59:03] * JonathanThompson wonders if air is fully aware that this public channel is fully logged for all time and eternity online for reference[16:59:09] <PilotFish|pain> Lives ? But I want to be a haiku dev ! /air[16:59:17] *** PilotFish|pain is now known as Poisson_Pilote[17:00:24] <ddew|bofh> meh, AROS won't boot on my test machine[17:00:37] <m0ns00n|pain> ddew|bofh: go to #aros for that man =)[17:00:44] <ddew|bofh> and that box is uber-compatible with just about every os in existence[17:01:14] *** air has joined #haiku[17:01:15] <m0ns00n|pain> ddew|bofh: You mean it has the hw that is emulated in qemu?[17:01:16][17:01:19] <air> JonathanThompson, indeed[17:01:21] <helf|pain> oh god, the PAIN!!!![17:01:24] <ddew|bofh> no, actual hardware[17:01:24] <air> i read the logs all day[17:01:25] * m0ns00n|pain stirs a stick at air[17:01:26] <m0ns00n|pain> :-)[17:01:27] *** air is now known as air|pain[17:01:30] <air|pain> muuuwhahahaha[17:01:33] <stpere> lol[17:01:35] <air|pain> FEEL THE PAIN[17:01:38] <helf|pain> so who is air? :P[17:01:38] *** air|pain has left #haiku[17:01:43] <helf|pain> dannyx?[17:01:46] <helf|pain> ...[17:01:46] <m0ns00n|pain> He's somebody here =) hehe[17:01:49] *** m0ns00n|pain is now known as m0ns00n[17:01:52] <stpere> I was wondering how he knew we were continuing[17:01:58] <ddew|bofh> either that or he's reading the logs[17:02:23] <helf|pain> its bryanv! ;P[17:02:32] <ddew|bofh> hehe[17:03:09] <stpere> it was fun to explain in the 6 other channel why I changed my nick to stpere|pain[17:03:10] *** inseculous has joined #haiku[17:03:22] <m0ns00n> stpere: Haha[17:03:32] <helf|pain> heh[17:04:01] <stpere> Poisson_Pilote: private msg[17:04:33] *** Monni has joined #Haiku[17:08:01] <m0ns00n> Is there a good GUI tutorial for BeOS somewhere?[17:08:06] <m0ns00n> Other than the "Be book"?[17:08:22] *** lu_zero has left #haiku[17:08:35] <m0ns00n> I find myself looking through stack and stacks of irrelevant information[17:09:42] *** jiuda_D`arkness has quit IRC[17:09:42] <oco> mOnsOOn : there is this book : http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/beosprog/book/[17:09:52] <oco> (available in pdf)[17:10:06] <m0ns00n> oco: I have it in pdf[17:10:09] <m0ns00n> oco: it's in beosmax[17:10:17] <m0ns00n> oco: but it includes tonnes of info that I don't need[17:10:30] <m0ns00n> oco: I'm just looking for a basic hello world gui app tutorial[17:10:44] <oco> step by step ?[17:10:59] <m0ns00n> not nessesarily, but if it is, it's fine[17:12:04] *** MauriceK has quit IRC[17:12:05] <mmadia> have you looked at the sample code m0ns00n ?[17:12:14] <oco> there is some simple application in BeOS sample code[17:12:14] <andreasf> m0ns00n, that large PDF has a simple hello world in chapter 3 or something ;-)[17:12:17] <oco> same idea :)[17:12:23] <oco> but no tutorial[17:12:32] <AlienSoldier> m0ns00n come in besahre, i have just that[17:12:41] *** helf|pain is now known as helf[17:13:18] <Maurice1> beshare, that still exists???[17:13:38] *** timepass has joined #haiku[17:15:16] <AlienSoldier> beshare will live forever[17:15:49] <AlienSoldier> if someone could fix the stupid firewall thing it would be even better[17:16:25] *** timepass has left #haiku[17:16:39] <m0ns00n> I'll look into it[17:16:51] <m0ns00n> Because of hauku I've really become interesting in coding for it[17:17:06] <m0ns00n> if it makes it to stable sometime the next 2 years, it has a chance to change the OSS world as we know it[17:17:53] <m0ns00n> Amoungst all the things we need in the future (space stations, moon base, mars base, cure for cancer........) we need a good open source desktop OS that is stable ;)[17:18:18] <ddew|bofh> i'll settle for a fast desktop os[17:18:35] <m0ns00n> a fast, unstable desktop os already exists =)[17:18:40] <m0ns00n> it's called windows 95 :-)[17:18:56] <m0ns00n> hey, load your beos[17:18:57] <ddew|bofh> not nearly as speedy as haiku/beos[17:19:12] <m0ns00n> is haiku as fast as beos?[17:19:38] <ddew|bofh> hell, beos on a p2-400 with 512mb ram feels faster than linux, osx or solaris on my core 2 duo 3ghz with 5gb ram[17:19:55] <m0ns00n> ddew|bofh, I agree completely, but is hauku that fast?[17:20:13] <ddew|bofh> not yet, still pretty quick though[17:20:13] <m0ns00n> ddew|bofh: I got fears in my heart when I heard talk in the latest blog about a OpenGL wm for Haiku[17:20:25] <ddew|bofh> that's crazy-talk[17:20:34] <m0ns00n> ddew|bofh: Like hauku is under threat of being pulled towards the bling coders[17:21:08] <ddew|bofh> i'm all for compositing but i have fancy 3d effects or wobblyness[17:21:12] <ddew|bofh> *hate[17:21:58] <m0ns00n> Sure, but i'd rather have my os remain a os, not turn into a bloated game :-)[17:22:09] <ddew|bofh> agreed[17:24:08] <m0ns00n> bbl[17:24:12] *** m0ns00n is now known as m0ns00n|away[17:28:18] <andreasf> hey guys, I'm pleased to announce that I have git working on Haiku :-)[17:28:28] <Maurice1> andreasf: cool[17:28:32] <ddew|bofh> awesome, grats :)[17:28:36] <Maurice1> with ssh? and everything?[17:29:09] * Maurice1 wants a 8th day of the week :([17:29:17] <andreasf> ssh I don't know, I've tested git: and http: repos and did compile with OpenSSL[17:29:56] <andreasf> not yet able to run git's test suite though, that needs sparse which seqfaults on me ;-)[17:30:12] <Maurice1> hehe anyway... cool[17:30:30] <Maurice1> what did you do about the libcurl dependency? Is there some available for Haiku?[17:30:45] <Technix> gggggggeeeez.. they just do not stop! http://googlenewsblog.blogspot.com/2008/04/words-matter.html[17:30:48] <andreasf> I compiled it with a minor patch[17:30:49] <Technix> too cool[17:31:51] *** [mark] has quit IRC[17:32:21] *** [mark] has joined #haiku[17:34:40] *** [mark] has quit IRC[17:40:04] <CIA-49> bonefish * r25048 /haiku/trunk/data/etc/licenses/ (. GNU GPL v2 GNU GPL v3 GNU LGPL v2.1):[17:40:04] <CIA-49> Added some licenses. All licenses of third party software we include in[17:40:04] <CIA-49> the standard image should go here. Including our own...[17:41:58] *** SprMa has quit IRC[17:43:33] *** meisje has quit IRC[17:45:52] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[17:46:12] *** mmadia has quit IRC[17:46:33] *** Paradoxon has quit IRC[17:48:35] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[17:51:20] <CIA-49> bonefish * r25049 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/ (8 files): (log message trimmed)[17:51:20] <CIA-49> * Added BTextView derived class HyperTextView, which allows for[17:51:20] <CIA-49> associating text with an action performed when clicked. Very[17:51:20] <CIA-49> bare-bones, but sufficient for our purposes.[17:51:20] <CIA-49> * Turned all URLs into proper URLs (i.e. prepended "http://" where[17:51:23] <CIA-49> missing).[17:51:26] <CIA-49> * Added new AboutView::AddCopyrightEntry() versions. One can take an[17:54:17] *** Korli has quit IRC[17:55:56] <CIA-49> bonefish * r25050 /haiku/trunk/build/ (jam/HaikuImage scripts/build_haiku_image):[17:55:56] <CIA-49> * Copy licenses to the image (/etc/licenses).[17:55:56] <CIA-49> * Whenever unzipping a zip archive to the image, we do first check, if[17:55:56] <CIA-49> it contains an .OptionalPackageDescription file. If so, its contents[17:55:56] <CIA-49> is appended to AboutSystem's "COPYRIGHTS" attribute, which will cause[17:55:56] <CIA-49> the respective info to be shown in the about view.[17:56:11] *** hUMUNGUz has quit IRC[17:57:09] <CIA-49> bonefish * r25051 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/OptionalPackages: Repackaged jam and automake to contain an .OptionalPackageDescription.[17:58:45] <Technix> omg people.. DIE DIE DIE[17:58:57] * Technix is only person on phone support now for past few hours.. grrrr[18:04:10] *** BenoitRen has joined #haiku[18:05:26] <BenoitRen> Hi people. I'm using Haiku right now. It hasn't thrown a kernel panic in more than a half hour! I'm pleased. :) Last time I tested was two months ago.[18:05:47] <stpere> :)[18:05:59] <Technix> congrats![18:06:03] <helf> cool[18:06:26] <oco> BenoitRen : there was a lot of progress in stability in the past 2 months :-)[18:06:27] <helf> I'm so sick fo myspace[18:06:35] <BenoitRen> :)[18:06:37] <helf> I with they would let me block it completely from out network[18:06:44] <helf> *our[18:07:30] <AlienSoldier> Commodore is closing, about time they stoped that abomination[18:07:45] <helf> I didn't think that zombie would ever die[18:07:53] <BenoitRen> For maximum enjoyment, I'd like to find a driver for my video card. It's an S3 Virge(I think?) with 4 MB of VRAM. I'm mostly finding S3 Savage drivers...[18:08:07] <AlienSoldier> well, i guess it's gonna have time to jump to another host :)[18:08:26] *** tqh has quit IRC[18:08:37] *** tqh has joined #haiku[18:10:55] *** {V} is now known as {V}afk[18:15:23] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[18:15:23] *** ablyss has quit IRC[18:15:25] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[18:15:25] *** CodeAnxiety has quit IRC[18:16:43] *** rdmr has quit IRC[18:21:05] <BenoitRen> Can someone point me in the right direction?[18:21:54] *** CodeAnxiety has joined #haiku[18:22:21] *** ablyss has joined #haiku[18:22:32] <Technix> BenoitRen:[18:22:33] <Technix> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=10143&page=10[18:22:48] <Technix> that's about all I can find[18:28:12] <BenoitRen> Thanks.[18:28:27] <Technix> np[18:29:52] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[18:34:43] <ddew|bofh> aw man, i wish there were any tradeshows in these parts[18:35:15] <helf> like what?[18:35:16] <ddew|bofh> we get bloody everything else besides computer tradeshows[18:35:18] <ddew|bofh> they've even cancelled our comdex :/[18:35:59] <ddew|bofh> which kinda sucks since we have excellent facilities in the WTC and a lot of cool techstuff happening[18:36:48] <ThomHolwerda9298> ddew|bofh: did you reply to, err, david's reply yet?[18:36:54] <ThomHolwerda9298> oh and hi, of course :)[18:36:58] <ddew|bofh> hiya :)[18:37:03] <ddew|bofh> yeah i did[18:37:07] *** ThomHolwerda9298 is now known as ThomHolwerda[18:37:29] <ddew|bofh> i'm working on a piece on minix3 and it's microkernelness[18:37:30] <ThomHolwerda> ddew|bofh: cool :)[18:37:34] <ThomHolwerda> ooooooh[18:37:42] <ddew|bofh> sadly the contest popped up right now :/[18:37:46] <ThomHolwerda> welcome aboard (assuming you're gonna keep it up)[18:38:14] <ddew|bofh> i plan on going the distance :)[18:38:21] <ThomHolwerda> awesome[18:39:20] <ddew|bofh> heh, am i the only one who finds it mildly amusing that not only do we have a WTC but it's also two towers?[18:39:45] <DHowett> I had to raise an eyebrow when i saw 'WTC' but niiice :P[18:39:48] <ThomHolwerda> ddew|bofh: there are WTCs all over the world[18:39:57] <ThomHolwerda> we have one in amsterdam too[18:39:58] <ThomHolwerda> rotterdam[18:40:04] <ThomHolwerda> so we have two :P[18:40:33] <ddew|bofh> yeah, but this one's two identical high-rises standing right next to eachother[18:40:36] <ddew|bofh> :)[18:41:29] <ThomHolwerda> heh[18:41:43] <DHowett> ddew|bofh: Where?[18:42:05] <ddew|bofh> gothenburg, sweden[18:42:42] *** _Lucretia__ has joined #haiku[18:44:16] <ddew|bofh> ok, one's a couple of floors lower. but still[18:44:17] <ddew|bofh> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Svenska_M%A4ssan_Gothia_Towers.jpg/800px-Svenska_M%A4ssan_Gothia_Towers.jpg[18:45:07] *** urnenfeldb has joined #haiku[18:45:17] <ddew|bofh> whoop, sorry for the massive link[18:45:29] *** {V}afk is now known as {V}[18:46:01] <DeadYak> "Error generating thumbnail"?[18:46:04] <Technix> you should be sorry! my eyes, my eyes![18:46:07] <ThomHolwerda> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_(Amsterdam)[18:46:12] <Technix> the google, it does nothing![18:46:14] <ThomHolwerda> the WTC in amsterdam is 7 towers[18:46:39] <ThomHolwerda> and the one in rotterdam[18:46:40] <ThomHolwerda> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beurs_World_Trade_Center_Rotterdam[18:46:45] <ThomHolwerda> beter looking imo[18:46:56] <Technix> yes, it is[18:47:13] * Technix has walked past that many, many times...[18:47:16] <ddew|bofh> just keep in mind that amsterdam and rotterdam are way larger than gothenburg :)[18:47:26] <ThomHolwerda> i dunno[18:47:37] <ThomHolwerda> amsterdam is less than 1 million inhabitants[18:47:38] <ddew|bofh> the rotterdam one was purty[18:47:43] <ThomHolwerda> like, 800 or 900 thousand[18:48:00] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku[18:48:01] <ddew|bofh> not more? i thought it was a huge town[18:48:03] <helf> thom[18:48:11] <Technix> just in front of it is a small pleinweg leading to shopping centres below, and the metro[18:48:22] <helf> whats your shipping addres or general area, at least? i want to see how much it'd cost t oship that thing[18:48:25] <helf> *address[18:48:32] <Technix> its quite the hub of downtown, so to speak, (other than Station Centraal)[18:48:49] <ddew|bofh> we have like 900K in gothenburg[18:49:04] *** _Lucretia__ has quit IRC[18:49:05] <ThomHolwerda> helf: just pick amsterdam, rozengracht 11[18:49:32] <helf> ok[18:49:34] <ThomHolwerda> i dont live in amsterdam but should give you a decent estimate[18:54:38] *** ThomHolwerda has quit IRC[18:54:53] <helf> ouchie[18:55:00] <helf> $200 bucks at a 50lbs gestimate[18:55:00] <helf> :P[18:55:12] <helf> *guestimate[18:55:17] <ddew|bofh> he left :)[18:56:04] <helf> shipping is getting expensive :P[18:56:13] <stpere> stupid fuel[18:56:22] <helf> we need to find a proper alternative[18:56:35] <helf> like zero point energy[18:56:36] <helf> ^_^[18:56:39] <stpere> :)[18:56:52] * DeadYak prods CIA-49[18:56:54] <ddew|bofh> teleportation![18:57:12] <helf> stpere, im up to ~92usd fill ups...[18:57:19] <stpere> bzip![18:57:21] <DeadYak> helf: 44 here.[18:57:30] <helf> yak, whats the price for 87 there?[18:57:36] <helf> it jumped to 3.399 here[18:57:45] <DeadYak> $3.35-3.45[18:57:52] <helf> bleck[18:57:54] <DeadYak> I suspect my Golf has a much smaller tank than your van though[18:58:05] <helf> what size is yours? 14? :)[18:58:06] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[18:58:07] <stpere> 1.29$ /liter here[18:58:08] <DeadYak> yup[18:58:16] <helf> only about 13g smaller ;P[18:58:23] <DeadYak> stpere: ouch![18:58:24] <stpere> 1.35$ / liter in montreal[18:58:36] <stpere> canadian dollars[18:58:39] <DeadYak> oh.[18:58:47] <stpere> almost same value as USD[18:58:57] <helf> which is PATHETIC[18:58:58] <helf> and a disgrace![18:58:59] <helf> :p[18:59:05] <stpere> hehehe[18:59:12] <helf> hell, even the darn AUD is like 6c less than ours[18:59:21] <helf> it used to be a LOT less[18:59:38] <DeadYak> yes, the USD is pathetic now[18:59:42] <helf> I hate the people running our government[19:00:02] <stpere> hell, they expect it to reach 1.50$ here soon[19:00:04] <stpere> this summer[19:00:11] <{V}> helf, the US corporations?[19:00:19] <{V}> :P[19:00:22] <helf> heh[19:00:23] <helf> :P[19:00:36] <helf> stpere, supposed to hit $5/G here this summer[19:00:48] <helf> premium is over 4usd/g in places already[19:01:01] <helf> 5*27= sad helf[19:01:17] <helf> $135 a fill up :([19:01:26] <helf> that'll be 3/4s of a paycheck every 2 weeks[19:01:53] <helf> which is why I'm seriously thinking about a good bike again...[19:02:44] <stpere> helf: $5/G == 1.32$/liter[19:02:59] <rennj> http://i29.tinypic.com/9bj57c.jpg[19:03:09] <helf> ouch[19:03:16] <rennj> helf go electric[19:03:19] <helf> right[19:03:21] <helf> electric[19:03:27] <helf> good for ~100miles[19:03:33] <helf> i'd eat that up in a day easily...[19:03:34] <helf> :/[19:03:37] <stpere> at least, our electricity is cheap here :)[19:03:42] <helf> i'd love to go electric[19:03:43] <rennj> i hit 1706miles yesterday[19:03:51] <helf> on your ebike? :)[19:03:54] <rennj> good for 20miles helf if you dont pedal[19:04:01] <rennj> between charges[19:04:03] <helf> hm[19:04:15] <rennj> more miles if you pedal[19:04:28] <rennj> 20 miles if you use thumb throttel[19:04:45] <rennj> throttle[19:04:52] *** BenoitRen_ has joined #haiku[19:05:05] <rennj> i had the bike 10 months helf[19:05:13] <rennj> 1700 miles in 10months[19:05:23] <rennj> well i should say engine[19:05:25] <stpere> helf: that would be 5,68$/gallon >.<[19:05:29] <rennj> i had the bike 10 11 years[19:05:37] <BenoitRen_> Had a kernel panic when trying to download the driver. And now pictures are these blue squares/rectangles.[19:05:40] <helf> only problem is, here, bikes arent really that useful at the moment. i have to go up a mountain that has no pedestrian ways at all. just narrow roads..[19:05:41] <stpere> man, can I just go bankrupt already?[19:05:45] <rennj> i can lift it over head helf, its only like 40lbs total[19:05:46] <helf> stpere, hehe[19:05:56] <helf> rennj, im thinking about them[19:05:58] *** BenoitRen has quit IRC[19:05:58] <helf> for around town[19:06:06] *** BenoitRen_ is now known as BenoitRen[19:06:35] <helf> id the damn kits didnt cost 5-10k usd, I'd convert my rabbit to electric[19:06:36] <BenoitRen> Anyway, I downloaded the old S3 driver from Be Inc. I found where to put it. Now where do I link it to?[19:06:46] <rennj> http://jvbike.com/ http://nycewheels.com/[19:08:19] *** BenoitRen has quit IRC[19:08:28] <ddew|bofh> anyone here used Syllable?[19:10:12] <ddew|bofh> scratching the surface shows some BeOS traces :)[19:10:50] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[19:10:54] *** BenoitRen has joined #haiku[19:11:11] <BenoitRen> Grr. SeaMonkey closed when I closed the Terminal.[19:11:37] <BenoitRen> So. Where do I link the driver?[19:12:59] <BenoitRen> /home/config/settings/system/app_server ?[19:19:21] <oco> BenoitRen : here i think : /boot/home/config/add-ons/kernel/drivers/dev/graphics not sure if this driver will work under Haiku[19:20:42] <BenoitRen> I'm not sure either, but it's worth a try. Thanks.[19:21:09] *** CIA-49 has quit IRC[19:22:42] <BenoitRen> oco: What is /boot ?[19:23:10] <_Tek> a directory :P[19:23:13] <BenoitRen> If it's the boot partition, then I'm not finding that path on it. Under add-ons I get screensaver and such.[19:23:17] *** _Tek is now known as Teknomancer[19:24:19] *** HeTo has joined #haiku[19:24:23] <Teknomancer> under /boot/beos/ perhaps[19:24:39] <Teknomancer> don't remember beos/haiku paths offhand, been a while :([19:26:02] <BenoitRen> Link created![19:26:56] <BenoitRen> So what now? Reboot?[19:27:42] <Teknomancer> yep[19:27:54] <Teknomancer> BenoitRen: hm wait[19:27:54] <BenoitRen> OK. Be right back. :)[19:28:00] <BenoitRen> Teknomancer: Yes?[19:28:13] <Teknomancer> are you sure you couldn't find a place to put it under /boot/home ?[19:28:22] <BenoitRen> Yes.[19:28:24] <Teknomancer> because I think if the driver doesn't work, you can boot in failsafe mode[19:28:35] <Teknomancer> but i don't think you can do that if you put it in /boot/beos[19:29:12] <Teknomancer> did you check under /boot/home/config/kernel ?[19:29:36] <BenoitRen> There is no kernel directory under config.[19:30:15] <BenoitRen> I have add-ons, be, bin, fonts, lib and settings under that.[19:30:15] *** wildur has quit IRC[19:30:43] <HeTo> /boot/home/config/add-ons/kernel/drivers/bin and dev[19:30:56] <Teknomancer> yeah that ought to exist normally[19:31:15] <HeTo> IIRC, anyway the place for drivers is under add-ons[19:31:20] <ddew|bofh> *pfft* Syllable more finished than Haiku my ass[19:31:29] <BenoitRen> Under add-ons I have Screen Savers, Tracker and Translators.[19:32:08] <Teknomancer> ddew|bofh: haha[19:32:09] <ddew|bofh> can't believe someone actually thinks syllable is more stable, the thing crashes as soon as you look at it the wrong way[19:32:54] * BenoitRen hasn't ever heard of Syllable[19:33:06] <helf> *gasp*[19:33:07] <ddew|bofh> ok, it doesn't kernel panic. but the number of hung apps is just ridiculus[19:33:10] <helf> have you heard of nextstep?[19:33:15] <helf> :][19:33:23] *** Odium has joined #haiku[19:33:33] <BenoitRen> NeXTStep? Yeah, that's what Apple bought, right?[19:33:36] <helf> yeah[19:33:46] <ddew|bofh> but you can tell that it's been very inspired by the Be OS[19:33:52] <helf> http://helf.freeshell.org/screengrab-02-15-2008.jpg[19:33:57] <helf> ddew|bofh, yeah[19:34:08] <ddew|bofh> app_server, registrar and friends are all there[19:34:20] <helf> isnt it the same kernel that split off a long time ago from newos?[19:34:25] <helf> or vice versa?[19:34:29] <ddew|bofh> atheos actually[19:34:34] <helf> yeah, that[19:34:35] <helf> :P[19:34:41] <ddew|bofh> well, forked since atheos stagnated[19:34:57] <ddew|bofh> nice os but i'll still with haiku :)[19:35:38] <helf> heh[19:35:38] <BenoitRen> *facepalm*[19:35:52] <helf> have they gotten PPP working yet, in syllable?[19:35:53] <BenoitRen> Scroll bar on the left? *sigh*[19:36:02] <helf> BenoitRen, its nice[19:36:03] <helf> :P[19:36:05] <helf> i never have any issues[19:36:06] <helf> :D[19:36:13] <HeTo> yeah. shouldn't that be the case always?[19:36:23] <HeTo> for LTR languages, anyway[19:36:33] <helf> :P[19:36:33] <helf> yep[19:36:37] <helf> brb.. lunch time[19:36:51] <BenoitRen> I firmly believe that scroll bars should always be on the right.[19:37:16] <HeTo> so that you can't keep track of both the text and the place you're at the text at the same time?[19:37:48] <BenoitRen> Since when does one look at the scroll bar while scrolling?[19:38:51] <HeTo> since when has it not been useful/nice to know, where you're at the text without too much effort?[19:39:29] <HeTo> and if placing the scroll bar on the left has no drawbacks but does have even minor benefits compared to having the scroll bar on the right, shouldn't it be on the left?[19:39:30] <andreasf> I usually read first, then look at the scrollbar if at all :)[19:39:35] <urnenfeldb> (offtopic) just got remote bluetooth devices being discovered by BeOS http://urnenfeld.blogspot.com if someone wants to cheep up a bit :)[19:39:56] <andreasf> urnenfeldb: great![19:40:17] <urnenfeldb> oh andreasf u around :) got my mail ?[19:40:44] <andreasf> yes, will reply later[19:40:55] <urnenfeldb> ;)[19:42:12] <andreasf> but now that you're there, do you have instructions how to try out Bluetooth? seems it's not included by default[19:42:13] <BenoitRen> I'm going to reboot then.[19:42:40] *** oco has quit IRC[19:43:05] <BenoitRen> The scroll bar on the left means less space for the content.[19:43:09] <urnenfeldb> andreasf: now writing the HOW-TO is a must, although i may prepare a zip with the bins[19:43:15] <BenoitRen> You first look at the scroll bar, and then at the text.[19:43:19] *** BenoitRen has quit IRC[19:43:42] *** Teknomancer has left #haiku[19:44:25] <andreasf> urnenfeldb: well, I'd like to work on the patch I proposed so I'll need to compile myself[19:44:56] <andreasf> doing it in the dry seems risky and would break your test apps[19:45:02] <urnenfeldb> which patch? andreasf ?[19:45:27] <andreasf> adding the RSSI! or have you done so yet? didn't notice[19:45:36] <urnenfeldb> ahh RSSI :)[19:47:25] <urnenfeldb> The problem now is that at the moment the stack does now know which BT version the dongle supports, so would not know with inquiry command to launch :)[19:47:41] <urnenfeldb> but feel free to send a patch for the first part :)[19:48:38] *** Paradoxon_away has joined #haiku[19:48:58] <andreasf> well, it doesn't need to know yet - we just need some integer parameter (>= signed 8-bit) on the discovery interface[19:49:10] <andreasf> it could return some invalid value for now[19:49:18] *** BenoitRen has joined #haiku[19:49:42] <BenoitRen> It doesn't look like the driver is working. :'([19:49:55] <andreasf> concerning your WiiMote, maybe it's using another inquiry access code than GIAC?[19:50:23] <andreasf> they have different hopping sequences iirc[19:50:46] <urnenfeldb> Ohh could be that[19:51:20] <urnenfeldb> There are some documents around just need to pay more attention to the procedures[19:51:23] <andreasf> (invalid: outside -127..+20 iirc)[19:51:43] <BenoitRen> Is writing a driver for Haiku hard?[19:51:57] <BenoitRen> I know C...[19:53:19] <urnenfeldb> But andreasf i think the inquiry initiating command is different isnt it?[19:53:26] <andreasf> nope[19:56:00] <urnenfeldb> then there is a command to change which result event are we getting ?[19:56:28] <DHowett> BenoitRen: Driver for what type of hardware?[19:57:02] <BenoitRen> DHowett: Video card.[19:57:56] <andreasf> urnenfeldb: for BlueZ I used the hci_write_inquiry_mode function[19:58:07] <DHowett> I'm thinking that would be a little on the harder end of things.. but due to the very modular design, a driver in general shouldn't be too hard[19:59:28] <urnenfeldb> ahh yes write inquiry mode, now comes to my head[19:59:50] <andreasf> urnenfeldb: section 6.5 in Core v2.0 + EDR.pdf has the values[20:00:02] <BenoitRen> DHowett: It's for my S3 Virge 3D/DX card with 4 MB of VRAM.[20:00:21] <DeadYak> BenoitRen: I *think* Gerald Zajac is already working on that chipset, I might be mistaken[20:00:23] <andreasf> the command is: HCI_Write_Inquiry_Mode[20:01:29] <andreasf> but like I said, adding this functionality is not as important as changing the listener class since that is a binary break[20:01:54] <BenoitRen> Does Haiku support any sound format? Playing an MP3 doesn't work. Playing a MIDI doesn't seem to work either, though I can't figure out the MIDI Player that pops up.[20:02:08] <urnenfeldb> the thing is andreasf... where to launch this request into the kit....[20:02:24] <urnenfeldb> bin compat ? :)) there is no bin compat to be kept in BT :)[20:02:43] <DHowett> BenoitRen: It might not be too bad.. the nvidia driver, which is one C file, is 1534 lines.. s3 savage is 803.. no idea though[20:02:54] <DeadYak> DHowett: uhhh[20:02:57] <DeadYak> DHowett: that's only the kernel component[20:03:03] <DeadYak> DHowett: look at the accelerant also[20:03:08] <DHowett> I know *nods*[20:03:15] <andreasf> I have no knowledge of your architecture; since you're in control of the whole thing I'd say as part of device initialization?[20:03:42] <DeadYak> 18991 lines for the accelerant[20:03:52] <andreasf> yeah, well, meant I meant was: changing the interface breaks compatibility with all apps using it[20:04:03] <andreasf> so we better do the change early[20:04:06] <DeadYak> and a graphics driver can do nothing without its accelerant[20:04:11] <DHowett> BenoitRen: If you take the nvidia accelerant (18000 lines approx) and the savage one (4216) into account, video drivers seem a little more unwieldy[20:04:14] <DHowett> indeed[20:04:25] <DeadYak> the best kind of driver to start with for learning is ethernet[20:04:32] <DeadYak> probably the simplest class of driver you can generally write[20:04:52] <BenoitRen> My Ethernet card is already supported, so... :)[20:05:04] <urnenfeldb> no problem andreasf api will be freezed after R1[20:05:07] <urnenfeldb> or thats the plan[20:06:10] *** bSON has joined #haiku[20:06:33] <DeadYak> in any case though, like I said I thought Gerald was working on S3 Virge already, but you'd have to ask him[20:06:35] <BenoitRen> What's the IM Kit about? I know how MSNP8 works, so maybe I can help...[20:10:38] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku[20:12:40] <urnenfeldb> andreasf the implmentation would be similar to the LocalDevice::SetDiscoverable method. The command complete evetns are handled in LocalDeviceImpl.cpp in the server...[20:12:48] <BenoitRen> DeadYak: Thanks.[20:13:02] *** BenoitRen has quit IRC[20:13:08] <urnenfeldb> well time for enjoy the weekend... bye all![20:13:12] *** urnenfeldb has quit IRC[20:16:09] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[20:18:58] *** CIA-50 has joined #haiku[20:20:20] *** SprMa has quit IRC[20:23:15] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[20:26:37] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku[20:37:33] *** nibble has quit IRC[20:40:35] *** Schmedly3D has joined #haiku[20:44:49] *** DHowett has left #haiku[20:44:49] *** inseculous has quit IRC[20:45:30] *** inseculous has joined #haiku[20:45:51] *** bSON has quit IRC[20:47:00] <CIA-50> bonefish * r25057 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/unix/UnixDebug.h:[20:47:00] <CIA-50> It seems beneficial to let RETURN_ERROR() do something with debugging[20:47:00] <CIA-50> disabled, too.[20:54:15] *** tqh has quit IRC[20:57:34] *** HeTo has quit IRC[21:14:00] *** Odium has quit IRC[21:14:04] *** HeTo has joined #haiku[21:16:10] *** Odium has joined #haiku[21:20:34] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[21:20:49] *** Paradoxon_away has quit IRC[21:21:02] *** Odium has quit IRC[21:21:55] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku[21:23:32] *** Odium has joined #haiku[21:25:45] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC[21:28:21] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku[21:28:36] <CIA-50> axeld * r25058 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs_net_boot.cpp:[21:28:36] <CIA-50> Fixed the build of vfs_net_boot.cpp - I obviously messed up the full build I[21:28:36] <CIA-50> thought I had done.[21:28:36] <CIA-50> Of course, that wouldn't have happened if Ingo didn't break the network boot[21:28:36] <CIA-50> with his netstack changes ;-)[21:32:10] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[21:33:12] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku[21:33:53] *** giedrius has joined #haiku[21:33:59] *** giedrius has left #haiku[21:38:17] <ddew|bofh> wh00p, after picking up a 50-pack of cdr's earlier today i set about testing the latest version of all hobby os:es out there. about 10 so far and none of them comes even close to Haiku awesomeness :)[21:39:17] <ddew|bofh> closest so far are minix, plan9 and aros (for it's legacy coolness)[21:42:13] <vbmithr> and all these hobbyist OS are far from being usable :)[21:42:51] <ddew|bofh> well minix is pretty stable. but it's mainly a research os so that doesn't really count :)[21:42:53] <vbmithr> Haiku will be great[21:43:47] <ddew|bofh> it already is and once it's stable(-ish) it'll be glorious[21:44:07] <vbmithr> the problem will be the supported hardware[21:44:56] <ddew|bofh> yeah, but haiku's got a great base. sata is well supported and the freebsd layer makes porting nic drivers easier[21:44:57] <vbmithr> But I definitively think that a *desktop* oriented OS is mandatory to be easy to use[21:45:23] <vbmithr> for the server, the unixes are already close to perfection[21:45:30] <vbmithr> or what i imagine as perfection[21:45:57] <vbmithr> yeah, for haiku, the problem is that is very irritating to have only one device that don't work :)[21:46:09] <vbmithr> I'll try to install it on my laptop[21:46:12] <vbmithr> on a partition[21:46:13] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[21:46:25] <ddew|bofh> good luck, you'll need it ;)[21:46:47] <vbmithr> it's that hard ?[21:47:23] <ddew|bofh> nah, not really. but laptops tend to be notoriously hard to get new stuff working on[21:48:25] <vbmithr> I'll get another PC for testing purposes :)[21:48:48] <ddew|bofh> good idea :)[21:48:58] <vbmithr> what kind of OS is minix ?[21:49:06] <vbmithr> it's an UNIX obviously[21:49:12] <ddew|bofh> actually not[21:49:32] <ddew|bofh> it started out that way but has since evolved. it's a microkernel os[21:49:39] <vbmithr> ho, ok[21:49:40] <cps1966> minix inspired linus to write linux[21:49:42] <ddew|bofh> it was the inspiration for linux[21:49:49] <vbmithr> yeah i knew that, for linux[21:50:06] <vbmithr> but, it has an interest from the desktop point of view ?[21:51:15] <ddew|bofh> not really, it's interesting if you're into os design[21:51:48] <vbmithr> I see[21:52:50] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku[21:55:11] <vbmithr> What interest me a lot is the design of OS, but from usability point of view[21:55:39] <ddew|bofh> i see[21:55:52] <vbmithr> I've got using linux from a couple of years, and became rather used to it, but anything is never straitforward[21:56:04] <vbmithr> It always take hours to fixes things when I upgrade something[21:56:17] <vbmithr> I don't know if the design of the OS is in cause[21:56:31] <vbmithr> Or if it's inherant complexity of our modern world :)[21:57:16] <vbmithr> 5 years ago the computer were simpler, less sophisticated, it's true too, nope ?[21:58:40] <Monni> 5 years ago people were simpler too ;)[21:58:46] <vbmithr> I don't know whether it's best to have destkop oriented OS for desktop, or OS like linux which are not specializd[21:59:38] <vbmithr> And I think if an OS is developped with focus on the desktop, I'll be easier to use for the end user[21:59:53] <vbmithr> Thats why I have high expectations of Haiku ;)[22:00:41] <Monni> expect less, and you will get less disappointments too ;)[22:00:53] <ddew|bofh> i think it depends on what you want in an os. if you want to run servers or try out new stuff then linux, mac, windows or opensolaris might work fine. but if you're only after a simple enviroment that runs wicked fast and works well then you'll like haiku :)[22:01:16] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[22:01:19] <Stargater> hi[22:01:47] *** leszek has quit IRC[22:02:09] <Monni> Windows isn't much about new stuff... it's just old stuff reinvented... a lot of apps are still designed for Windows 95/98/ME in mind...[22:02:50] <AlienSoldier> desktop is a bad name, it's more a user centric system[22:02:51] <ddew|bofh> sure, but you have lots of new technology and the ability to run virtual machines[22:03:06] <ddew|bofh> something haiku doesn't have, yet[22:03:34] *** Andre__ has quit IRC[22:03:49] <Monni> what's so good in virtual machines... it's just wasting resources....[22:04:05] <vbmithr> I don't see the point of virtual machines for "user centric systems" too[22:04:19] <vbmithr> apart from running Haiku on top of Linux :D[22:05:13] <Monni> running Linux inside Linux makes more sense... no emulation, no virtual machines... just two distros sharing same memory and cpu...[22:05:18] <ddew|bofh> i use virtual machines to build haiku and mess around with other oses i don't have the energy to install on my test box[22:06:17] <Monni> I just plain cross-compile, I don't need vm to build Haiku...[22:06:39] <vbmithr> me too[22:06:57] <ddew|bofh> can't build it on this system, not without doing massive reconstruction anyway[22:07:02] <Monni> having 11 computer here makes virtual machines pretty redundant...[22:07:44] <cps1966> not everyone is a junk collector[22:07:47] <ddew|bofh> i used to have tons of machines around too but the powetbill made me cut it down to 2 workstations and 3 servers :)[22:07:54] <ddew|bofh> *powerbill[22:08:07] <Monni> my powerbill doubles each year... still no problem[22:08:09] <vbmithr> having 11 computer is redundant in itself nope ? ;)[22:08:37] <Monni> redundant array of inexpensive computers ;)[22:08:48] <ddew|bofh> aka junk ;)[22:08:51] <stpere> Monni: won't you think of the children?[22:08:52] <stpere> :)[22:09:12] <Monni> stpere: I don't have any children... but I do have 8 ex-girlfriends ;)[22:09:45] <ddew|bofh> like that's something to be proud of :P[22:09:56] <Monni> I used to have 21 computers but I got tired fixing all of them when they failed...[22:10:06] *** oco has joined #haiku[22:10:46] <Monni> atleast I got my priorities straight ;)[22:10:47] *** AndrevS has joined #haiku[22:11:07] <ddew|bofh> it sounds like you're overcompensating for lacking something else ;)[22:11:25] <stpere> lol[22:11:45] <Monni> collecting hardware is my job... it's not a hobby[22:12:31] <ddew|bofh> "ok" :P[22:12:32] *** Stargater has quit IRC[22:12:55] *** El-Al has joined #haiku[22:13:55] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[22:13:56] <Stargater> re[22:14:03] <ddew|bofh> wb[22:14:16] <vbmithr> ddew|bofh: :)[22:15:40] <ddew|bofh> *yawn* time to hit the sack. have fun y'all[22:15:46] <vbmithr> bye:[22:16:41] <El-Al> DeadYak: I fixed my problem. Thnx anyway :o)[22:25:53] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[22:26:57] <Kokito> hello haiku fans[22:27:37] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC[22:30:04] <Stargater> hi haiku fan Kokito[22:30:13] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku[22:30:20] <vbmithr> I'm rebooting into Haiku.[22:30:31] *** vbmithr has quit IRC[22:33:41] <Kokito> hi Stargater :)[22:37:12] *** vbmithr has joined #haiku[22:37:17] <vbmithr> Whooooo it works ![22:37:20] <vbmithr> It's so great ![22:37:36] <vbmithr> It cannot be compared to run haiku in a VM[22:39:47] <Kokito> welcome back vbmithr :)[22:40:17] <oco> and one more french that use Haiku ! Great :-)[22:40:36] <Kokito> vbmithr, you are experiencing the "I am running Haiku in real hardware" rush. be careful, because it is addictive. :P[22:41:02] <vbmithr> :>[22:41:15] <vbmithr> It works out of the box[22:41:16] <vbmithr> impressive[22:41:25] <vbmithr> my thinkpad got it's 2 pointers working[22:41:32] <vbmithr> video in native resolution[22:41:36] <vbmithr> external USB mouse[22:41:45] <Kokito> network[22:41:51] <Kokito> how about sound?[22:41:54] <vbmithr> network OK[22:41:57] <vbmithr> out of the box too[22:42:12] <vbmithr> i'm going to test the sound[22:42:21] <Kokito> vbmithr, you would not be here if network did not work, would you? :P[22:43:11] <vbmithr> Good remark indeed[22:43:17] <Kokito> hehe[22:44:00] <Kokito> vbmithr, don't worry: it is part of the "I am running Haiku in real hardware" syndrome. you get so excited, that you are not rational anymore. :P[22:44:06] <andreasf> Kokito; DHCP doesn't work for everyone[22:44:23] * vbmithr laugh[22:44:37] <vbmithr> i'm using static net config[22:44:50] <Kokito> andreasf, I know[22:45:38] <andreasf> vbmithr: so not white out-of-the-box ;-)[22:45:53] <andreasf> *quite[22:48:17] <Kokito> andreasf, but that's because vbmithr uses a static IP[22:52:28] <vbmithr> for listening to music[22:52:30] <vbmithr> mp3 and co[22:52:35] <vbmithr> What prog can I use ?[22:53:07] <AlienSoldier> vlc[22:53:28] <vbmithr> ok[22:57:17] <vbmithr> and for the mail[22:57:24] <vbmithr> what is exactly "email"[22:57:39] <vbmithr> from preference[22:58:41] *** Euver has quit IRC[22:58:55] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[23:03:03] <Kokito> vbmithr, the MediaPlayer plays audio fine[23:03:28] <Kokito> Preference > Email is used to add/manage your email accounts[23:03:45] <Kokito> Applications > Mail is a (minimal) email client[23:06:16] <vbmithr> okay thanks[23:06:22] <vbmithr> i'm looking for a mp3 to test the sound[23:06:53] <vbmithr> and firefox has some problems for refreshing the display[23:07:08] <vbmithr> and ssh is not installed it seems[23:07:13] <oco> http://www.firstsounds.org/sounds/1860-Scott-Au-Clair-de-la-Lune.mp3[23:07:53] <oco> for firefox, you can resize the window to force redraw[23:08:09] <mmadia> vbmithr the firefox refresh bug is well known ... and loathed[23:09:20] <Stargater> ssh ist optional package , see in trunk/build/jam[23:09:35] <Stargater> UserBuildConfigReadme[23:09:54] *** El-Al has quit IRC[23:10:17] <vbmithr> the song is supposed to be ugly ?[23:10:24] <vbmithr> Perhaps I have a problem with the sound :D[23:10:42] <oco> mine ?[23:10:43] <vbmithr> I have installed *all* the optional packages[23:10:45] <vbmithr> yes.[23:10:52] <oco> recorded in 1860... so...[23:11:17] <Stargater> oh[23:11:22] <oco> the first ever recorded...[23:11:26] <vbmithr> ha[23:11:36] <vbmithr> It must explain the ugliness of the thing[23:11:43] <vbmithr> I'm looking for something much recent[23:11:49] <andreasf> mmadia: do you know where the issue stems from?[23:12:19] <mmadia> not a clue andreasf[23:12:35] *** Wiss has quit IRC[23:12:41] <oco> it was even not supposed to be playable one day when it was recorded...[23:13:23] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[23:18:47] <vbmithr> the sound doen't work well[23:18:49] *** Odium has quit IRC[23:18:56] <vbmithr> it's all scrachy[23:19:04] <oco> even with recent ones ?[23:19:09] <vbmithr> yes[23:19:17] <vbmithr> I've an Intel HD audio card[23:19:35] *** Odium has joined #haiku[23:21:22] <oco> maybe better supported with Open Sound System...[23:28:32] <AlienSoldier> au clair de la lune, mon ami Pierrot[23:30:04] <cps1966> what[23:30:18] <AlienSoldier> the lyrics[23:30:26] <cps1966> gene dont understand your french[23:30:52] *** mmu_haiku has joined #haiku[23:30:58] <Kokito> vbmithr, the FF redraw problem is a known issue[23:31:24] <AlienSoldier> at the light from the moon, my friend Peter[23:31:37] <mmu_haiku> plop[23:31:56] * mmu_haiku in Haiku under vmware in OSX at some friends place[23:32:12] <mmu_haiku> I even got sound working with OSS[23:32:20] *** HeTo has quit IRC[23:32:29] <Kokito> haiku evangelism, eh mmu_haiku ? :)[23:33:25] <AlienSoldier> Kokito he force himself into house dressed like in clockwork orange and do haiku demo[23:33:30] <mmu_haiku> indeed[23:35:02] <Kokito> hey, whatever it takes :P[23:35:39] <vbmithr> I have OSS[23:37:59] <vbmithr> It's used automatically when package opensound is installed ?[23:39:33] *** Odium2 has joined #haiku[23:39:43] <oco> i don't know... neve used it...[23:40:18] *** Odium has quit IRC[23:40:19] <Kokito> vbmithr, I believe so[23:40:33] <Kokito> vbmithr, does your sound crackle?[23:40:57] <mmu_haiku> vbmithr yes it's an opt pkg[23:41:38] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[23:44:57] <vbmithr> I know it's an opt pkg[23:45:02] <vbmithr> but the sound don't[23:45:03] <vbmithr> yes the sound cracke[23:46:03] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[23:46:39] *** BenoitRen has joined #haiku[23:47:04] <BenoitRen> What is the IM Kit?[23:47:27] *** Odium has joined #haiku[23:48:18] <oco> Instant Messaging kit[23:48:37] <petterhj> this image is quite explanatory; http://beosimkit.sourceforge.net/ :)[23:48:45] <vbmithr> Let's go into linux again[23:49:00] *** vbmithr has quit IRC[23:49:23] *** Odium2 has quit IRC[23:49:45] <BenoitRen> I knew it meant Instant Messaging Kit, but I didn't know what it was. A program? A library for IM programs?[23:50:04] <BenoitRen> So it looks like some program that integrates into Haiku.[23:50:31] <petterhj> It's an multi-protocol IM server and a client which utilitize People files (as contact list)[23:51:09] *** nanoid has joined #haiku[23:51:12] <BenoitRen> Cool.[23:51:15] <petterhj> this way you can use queries and search for online/offline/whatever people (contact) files..[23:52:41] <BenoitRen> How complete is it? I'm familiar with MSNP8, so if they need help with that...[23:54:28] <Kokito> BenoitRen, the port to Haiku is in progress; I think there are a couple of italian devs working on it[23:55:27] <Kokito> http://www.haiku-os.it/node/268[23:56:02] <Kokito> or was it mmu_haiku who was working on im_kit for Haiku? now I am not sure :)[23:56:58] <mmu_haiku> I made a bone build that worked somehow, and gave the diff to pfiorini[23:58:39] <BenoitRen> The terminology confuses. What is BONE? It seems to be different from standard BeOS libs and Haiku.[23:58:43] <BenoitRen> *confuses me[23:59:32] <Kokito> http://wiki.bebits.com/page/WhatIsBone[23:59:33] *** vbmithr has joined #haiku