April 17, 2008 
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April 17, 2008 [00:02:43] *** Wiss has joined #haiku[00:04:34] <koki_haiku> danger buyout?[00:05:02] <koki_haiku> ouch[00:05:08] <koki_haiku> MS[00:06:11] <pyCube_> how did they manage to resist the urge to name some product 'Will Robinson'?[00:08:26] <CIA-34> oruizdorantes * r24989 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/bt_discovery.cpp: - Completed the command line tool. Discovers and after finishing asks the names of the discovered devices[00:09:49] *** Odium has quit IRC[00:10:53] *** Dr3w has joined #Haiku[00:15:23] <CIA-34> oruizdorantes * r24990 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/bluetooth/DiscoveryListener.cpp:[00:16:04] *** Schmedly3D has joined #haiku[00:16:09] <koki_haiku> go urnenfeld, go! :)[00:16:20] <CIA-34> oruizdorantes * r24991 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/bluetooth/RemoteDevice.cpp: - Change again the api... Strings are not for everything[00:16:34] <urnenfeld> cro que me faltan 2 mas :P[00:16:39] <urnenfeld> creo*[00:17:56] <CIA-34> oruizdorantes * r24992 /haiku/trunk/headers/os/bluetooth/ (RemoteDevice.h bdaddrUtils.h):[00:18:08] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[00:18:25] *** dchis has quit IRC[00:21:29] <CIA-34> oruizdorantes * r24993 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/bluetooth/ (BluetoothServer.cpp LocalDeviceImpl.cpp LocalDeviceImpl.h): - Fix parsing of the inquiry replies. There is a first byte indicating the number responses which was ignored.[00:25:01] <urnenfeld> hmm pity the wiimote is not dicovered...[00:33:15] *** luroh has quit IRC[00:34:47] *** duaneb has joined #haiku[00:35:14] *** duaneb has quit IRC[00:35:38] *** urnenfeld has left #haiku[00:36:24] *** duaneb has joined #haiku[00:36:27] *** tarma has joined #haiku[00:40:30] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku[00:41:10] *** surrounder has joined #haiku[00:47:38] *** AngryPunk has quit IRC[00:47:39] *** tradewind has quit IRC[00:49:04] *** {V} has quit IRC[00:49:11] *** {V} has joined #haiku[00:49:32] *** {V} is now known as {V}zzz[00:49:36] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[00:49:51] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[00:51:28] <{V}zzz> g'dnight everyone[00:52:49] <duaneb> why do I have to press tilde twice to get a tilde in the terminal?[00:57:19] <Disreali> dyslexic keyboard[01:01:39] <{V}zzz> duaneb, us-international keymap?[01:01:55] <duaneb> nope[01:02:06] <duaneb> well, it's an apple keyboard, but it's emulated as a PS/2[01:02:11] <duaneb> and it's the default keymap[01:02:37] <koki_haiku> duaneb, where is the tilde in your keyboard?[01:02:47] <duaneb> just below the escape[01:03:02] <duaneb> to the left of the 1/!, and above the tab[01:03:06] <koki_haiku> works fine here[01:03:23] <koki_haiku> sounds like it is working as a dead key in your case[01:04:05] <duaneb> :/[01:04:17] <duaneb> I could just enter kdl and then continue :P[01:04:58] <duaneb> except it's fine in everything else[01:05:54] <koki_haiku> sure you are using the American keymap?[01:06:59] <duaneb> no[01:07:02] <duaneb> I'm not[01:07:05] <duaneb> how can I be sure?[01:11:09] *** Odium has joined #haiku[01:14:56] *** Stargater has quit IRC[01:24:20] *** infamy has quit IRC[01:30:43] *** rdmr has quit IRC[01:32:04] *** petterhj has quit IRC[01:33:31] *** oco has quit IRC[01:34:37] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[01:44:20] *** Haiku8305 has joined #Haiku[01:45:43] *** Haiku8305 has quit IRC[01:53:39] *** duaneb has quit IRC[02:01:54] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[02:08:04] *** Ruiloff has quit IRC[02:08:59] *** koki_haiku has quit IRC[02:12:55] *** mmadia has quit IRC[02:24:24] *** Disreali has quit IRC[02:24:56] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[02:25:27] <DHowett> tried to bring iso9660 to the new VFS layer. I killed it. Try to read a file, cache_io NULL blah! Yay![02:28:28] *** jspiros has quit IRC[02:30:43] *** jspiros has joined #haiku[02:53:38] *** __ToddB__ has joined #haiku[02:55:51] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[02:55:58] <Stargater> re cant sleep :([02:56:17] *** koki_haiku has joined #haiku[02:56:25] <ari-free> hi[02:56:31] <koki_haiku> hey ari-free[02:56:43] <koki_haiku> ari-free, were you not interested in coverity?[02:56:48] <ari-free> yes[02:56:59] <ari-free> I hope it comes together[02:57:08] <koki_haiku> did you see the messages on the mailing list?[02:57:27] <ari-free> yes i see the dev list archives[02:57:28] <__ToddB__> #dotnet[02:57:33] <koki_haiku> ah, ok. I was hoping that you wanted to provide more than just moral support :)[02:58:47] <ari-free> problem is i don't think my pc is capable of doing such a build[02:59:54] <koki_haiku> ari-free, I think we are looking more for someone with the skills to integrate it into the haiku build system.[03:00:31] <ari-free> thats the other problem :) something I want to learn how to do[03:00:58] <ari-free> but I found a few links[03:01:31] <koki_haiku> you can always learn :)[03:01:46] <koki_haiku> and it looks like Ingo is willing to help from the side[03:01:56] <pyCube_> __ToddB__: hi there[03:02:22] <ari-free> ingo would be the expert. i don't want to screw up haiku as a result of my learning in progress[03:02:51] <ari-free> here's what i want to say though. you have to be prepared once haiku is on coverity[03:03:15] <koki_haiku> prepared for what?[03:03:24] <__ToddB__> heya pyCube[03:03:34] <ari-free> some people have been frustrated by the number of bugs it finds.[03:03:54] <ari-free> all of a sudden they realize they have lots of problems[03:04:31] <koki_haiku> I don't think we need coverity to know that, but I take your point :)[03:04:42] *** DHowett has left #haiku[03:04:43] <ari-free> well there's a PR aspect to deal with[03:05:28] <koki_haiku> a PR aspect? which PR aspect?[03:06:10] <ari-free> when coverity scanned open source for the first time, some websites came up with the misleading headline that gave the impression that open source was more bugy[03:07:13] <ari-free> lemme find link[03:07:30] <koki_haiku> the net is a jungle and people make wild interpretations on what the see/read. I have stopped worrying about it.[03:07:59] <koki_haiku> as long as the devs are ok with using coverity (as in, they think it will be good for Haiku), I am fine with it.[03:08:57] <ari-free> it will be good for haiku in the long term. just keep in mind not to be surprised if alpha code is found to be buggy[03:08:59] <ari-free> :)[03:09:28] <koki_haiku> alpha code is buggy by definition[03:09:43] <ari-free> yeah but coverity will make it very visible[03:09:55] <koki_haiku> that's the idea :)[03:09:56] <ari-free> so it could still be a shock to people[03:10:19] <ari-free> but if haiku gets better then that will show up on the scan and give good publicity[03:10:33] <ari-free> there aren't that many projects listed[03:11:18] <ari-free> VLC didn't get to go in the scan[03:12:26] <ari-free> also better to get the problem taken care of now before most people know about haiku[03:12:41] <koki_haiku> agreed on all points[03:12:47] <koki_haiku> now is better than later[03:13:06] <koki_haiku> we just need to find the person with the time to do it :)[03:13:23] <ari-free> when bugs were found when linux was on in 2006 that was a bigger deal because linux had a reputation to lose[03:14:01] <pyCube_> lemme tell ya... c64 jacked into a giant screen (one of our screening rooms) is much fun[03:15:24] <ari-free> I'm going to boot into linux. learn how to compile this puppy[03:15:31] *** ari-free has quit IRC[03:15:39] <__ToddB__> I so wish someone would make a new c64 type device...[03:16:16] <__ToddB__> http://xkcd.com/386/ this is so great[03:19:44] *** absabs has joined #haiku[03:24:02] <koki_haiku> absabs, good morning[03:24:27] *** ari_ has joined #haiku[03:24:41] *** ari_ is now known as ari-free[03:24:51] <absabs> morning koki_haiku[03:24:52] *** ari-free is now known as ari-linux[03:25:54] <absabs> koki_haiku,I'm looking forward to your email about rtl8139[03:25:57] <absabs> :)[03:26:06] <koki_haiku> absabs, sent you the KDL backtrace screenshot a few hours ago[03:26:11] <ari-linux> ok I am on ubuntu![03:26:15] <koki_haiku> sorry for the delay[03:26:21] <ari-linux> i hate ubuntu lol[03:26:33] <absabs> ah[03:26:34] <absabs> OK[03:26:41] <absabs> thanks very much[03:27:04] <koki_haiku> thanks to you absabs. hopefully you can fix the bug that causes the KDL :)[03:29:07] <absabs> Try my best.:)[03:33:32] <koki_haiku> thanks absabs :)[03:34:13] <koki_haiku> 大感謝[03:34:16] <koki_haiku> :)[03:35:45] *** _Megaf has quit IRC[03:35:59] <absabs> 不客气:-D[03:36:30] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC[03:36:53] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[03:37:56] *** goosemo has quit IRC[03:38:43] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[03:38:50] *** umccullough_w has joined #haiku[03:40:19] <umccullough_w> ari-linux, xubuntu is much nicer[03:40:28] <umccullough_w> IMO[03:42:50] <absabs> yep[03:43:02] <absabs> more clean[03:43:16] <koki_haiku> zebuntu!!! :P[03:44:32] <absabs> hahaa[03:45:54] <umccullough_w> haikuntu![03:45:57] <umccullough_w> oh[03:46:07] <absabs> :P[03:46:10] <umccullough_w> that doesn't even sound pleasant ;)[03:46:43] <ari-linux> it is still linux...[03:47:03] <umccullough_w> i don't mind it so much personally[03:47:15] <absabs> yep[03:47:16] <ari-linux> i am trying to upgrade from 7.04 to 7.10[03:47:20] <umccullough_w> X drivers suck[03:47:23] <ari-linux> i have difficulty[03:47:29] <umccullough_w> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade[03:47:33] <umccullough_w> or something like that[03:48:50] <ari-linux> let's see if that worked[03:49:05] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[03:49:16] *** ari-linux has quit IRC[03:53:28] <absabs> umccullough_w,why not try debian[03:53:56] <umccullough_w> absabs, i installed on a server machine recently[03:54:11] <umccullough_w> i haven't really played with it much yet though[03:54:25] <absabs> ubuntu,there's sth wrong while upgrade ubuntu some time[03:54:26] *** Wiss_ has joined #haiku[03:54:51] <umccullough_w> i've upgraded in the past without much trouble - but that was from a 6.x to 7.04 i think[03:55:21] <umccullough_w> doesn't matter really - i don't yet use linux for most of my daily activities[03:58:57] <__ToddB__> why linux over bsd?[04:00:37] *** ru` has quit IRC[04:01:26] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[04:02:05] <umccullough_w> bsd isn't familiar enough for me[04:02:12] *** Wiss has quit IRC[04:02:17] <umccullough_w> i have no preference otherwise[04:02:46] <umccullough_w> i really only use linux for haiku build/test at this point[04:06:04] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC[04:11:01] <aroman> is it possible to have the _start symbol for a custom executable in an archive (made with ar) and then link a bunch of archives together to produce the final program?[04:11:31] <aroman> my ld can't find the _start symbol and I'm not sure if I need to pass a certain option or if it just doesn't work[04:14:09] *** ari-linux has joined #haiku[04:14:34] <ari-linux> ok i think i finally figured out how to upgrade ubuntu[04:14:42] <ari-linux> but it is such a PITA[04:14:54] <umccullough_w> really? i thought i gave you the commandline earlier :)[04:15:02] <aroman> ari-linux: change your /etc/apt/sources.list for the new version[04:15:06] <aroman> apt-get update[04:15:09] <aroman> apt-get dist-upgrade[04:15:12] <ari-linux> no it was much more complicated[04:15:13] <aroman> and that should do it[04:15:23] <aroman> I've done that before and it worked...[04:15:23] <umccullough_w> yeah, settings the sources sucks[04:15:24] <ari-linux> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/26160[04:15:29] <umccullough_w> i usually do that with synaptic[04:15:53] <ari-linux> same problem[04:16:00] <umccullough_w> you did it using a cd?[04:16:02] <aroman> oh...[04:16:05] <Penix> silly ubuntu. upgrading is one of debian's strengths. trust them to screw it up[04:16:49] <ari-linux> it looks easy to use on the surface until you want to do anything[04:16:53] <aroman> yeah, just don't use a CD and use good sources :P[04:17:03] <ari-linux> yeah i got it from cd[04:17:33] <umccullough_w> yeah, keeping the sources updated is important[04:17:44] <umccullough_w> just run an update on the repos regularly I think...[04:17:55] <umccullough_w> i've never attempted a distro upgrade with a CD[04:18:20] <ari-linux> "let's make an OS that looks easy but is really hard! That'll learn em"[04:19:23] <umccullough_w> well, really what it comes down to is: "Let's make an OS that rules them all - oh shit..now it's hard - let's make it look easier"[04:20:07] <umccullough_w> it's really not all that bad compared to how it used to be ;)[04:20:15] <__ToddB__> I always do a network install, its easier[04:20:25] <ari-linux> ubuntu is easy if you just want to use the apps you see on the application menu[04:20:52] <ari-linux> no i mean i originally got ubuntu from cd and downloading updates[04:21:52] <__ToddB__> when I tried ubuntu, found it was easy to break if you like to install a lot of stuff that doesn't come default[04:22:06] <ari-linux> linux needs to be easy for mcse's to use, not just granma[04:22:07] <__ToddB__> but I have that problem with most linux distros[04:22:38] <ari-linux> granma will just click on an icon[04:22:57] <umccullough_w> mcse's aren't trained to think like an OS ;)[04:23:23] <__ToddB__> are there any linux's left that don't try to force you to use X by default?[04:23:23] <ari-linux> well they want to really dig in but not with terminal[04:23:55] <umccullough_w> not sure i believe that - i've known my share of mcse's and they don't really want to "dig in" like you make it sound[04:24:09] <umccullough_w> granted, I'm essentially an mcse myself ;)[04:25:23] <ari-linux> well there is a big gap between click on icon and everything in bash[04:25:37] <ari-linux> people want to dload all kinds of stuff[04:26:06] <umccullough_w> that's the problem with people trained on GUIs - the mouse is their primary input device[04:26:09] <umccullough_w> quite sad really[04:26:13] <__ToddB__> all you need is vi..[04:26:44] <ari-linux> well there is powershell these days[04:26:53] <umccullough_w> i still haven't even tried that[04:27:01] <__ToddB__> powershell is nice, but you still need vi[04:27:08] <umccullough_w> i use notepad2[04:27:14] <umccullough_w> lately[04:27:17] <ari-linux> my brother sets up networks. he uses vb script a lot[04:27:21] <__ToddB__> my coworker uses notepad++[04:27:26] <umccullough_w> ugh, vbscript :([04:27:34] <umccullough_w> __ToddB__, i tried that for a while[04:27:39] <umccullough_w> also tried programmers notepad[04:27:42] <umccullough_w> pn[04:28:02] <__ToddB__> honestly, still use edit.com a lot[04:28:07] <umccullough_w> lol[04:28:08] <docphnx> :P[04:28:14] <ari-linux> fun things are happening with this updating[04:28:17] <__ToddB__> its handy[04:28:25] <ari-linux> this sure aint windows update[04:28:28] <__ToddB__> then I added vim to my path[04:28:54] <umccullough_w> ari-linux, yeah, because windows update is unable to take you from XP to vista :)[04:28:56] <__ToddB__> I use console.exe instead of cmd.exe[04:28:57] <zlominus> Anyone use Geany ?[04:29:17] <ari-linux> that's a bad thing? :)[04:29:22] <umccullough_w> didn't say it was bad[04:29:35] <ari-linux> have vista upstairs[04:29:45] <__ToddB__> vista isn't bad, just gets bad press because of stupid home edition[04:29:46] <umccullough_w> icky - something else I haven't used yet[04:30:04] <umccullough_w> i like my XP machines performance just like it is now[04:30:31] <__ToddB__> hibernate actually works on vista[04:30:38] <umccullough_w> don't need that[04:30:39] <ari-linux> the vista pc is a new computer[04:30:52] <__ToddB__> and the saved searches is pretty cool[04:31:01] <umccullough_w> most of my machines run at 100% cpu 24x7[04:31:08] <ari-linux> we make it look like windows classic[04:31:23] <ari-linux> sidebar is ok i guess[04:31:24] <umccullough_w> ari-linux, does that make it look like XP?[04:31:24] <__ToddB__> I just run aero basic, looks good enough, and eye candy isn't excessive[04:31:35] <__ToddB__> I hate the sidebar, was a waste of a feature[04:31:38] <umccullough_w> cuz I use windows classic on XP to make it look like w2k ;)[04:31:41] <ari-linux> it makes it look like my xp which looks like windows 2000 :)[04:32:09] <__ToddB__> I like the silver xp theme that comes with xp media edition[04:32:41] <ari-linux> even silver is a bit too tacky. aero is horrible[04:32:48] <umccullough_w> media center edition - something else I don't use[04:33:06] <__ToddB__> media center is awesome, one of best tivo apps out there if you have capture card[04:33:20] <ari-linux> the title bars look smudged[04:33:21] <umccullough_w> i've been meaning to assembly a mythtv box[04:33:30] <umccullough_w> assemble[04:33:45] <__ToddB__> lots of programs that come with vista are really good too, the dvd movie creating app is amazing[04:34:33] <ari-linux> then there's the UAC[04:34:39] <__ToddB__> UAC?[04:34:49] <ari-linux> all those prompts[04:35:11] <__ToddB__> heh, they dont come up that often for me...[04:35:25] <__ToddB__> mainly when install stuff, or something updates[04:35:49] <__ToddB__> and you can turn it off[04:36:18] <ari-linux> what else in vista...well i do like the screensaver photos[04:36:52] <__ToddB__> I like the fact you can type program name in search bar, and it will run it.. also it finds your games, puts them in a folder for you..[04:36:59] <__ToddB__> start menu is much less cluttered[04:37:52] <ari-linux> i just got a copy of office 2007 to use[04:37:57] <ari-linux> never tried that before[04:38:00] <__ToddB__> it takes a long time to bootup sometimes, from a shutdown though, and until upgraded drivers, the memory caused random crashes[04:38:16] <__ToddB__> a lot of people like the 2007 interface better, but say it runs like crap[04:38:31] <__ToddB__> half people at work are using 2007 other half are using 2003[04:38:45] <umccullough_w> 2003 here[04:38:50] <umccullough_w> OO.o at home :)[04:38:53] <ari-linux> yeah i read it takes a ton of memory. probably because of the xml format[04:39:06] <ari-linux> used to be binary[04:39:21] <umccullough_w> i could actually use 2000 still without issue[04:39:32] <umccullough_w> i didn't really need 2003 for anything special[04:39:34] <__ToddB__> I read vista uses more processor and memory intentionally to try and make it more responsive[04:40:00] <Penix> caches loads of stuff[04:40:02] <umccullough_w> memory perhaps ... not sure about processor :/[04:40:03] <__ToddB__> yeah[04:40:16] <ari-linux> yeah i could just see the haiku devs thinking 'what the heck?"[04:40:29] <__ToddB__> didn't beos do something similar with processor to keep itself responsive?[04:40:35] <umccullough_w> unless it's always in the background updating the cache or something[04:40:42] *** docphnx is now known as DocPheniX[04:40:47] <umccullough_w> __ToddB__, that's pretty much anti-laptop there[04:41:03] <umccullough_w> the last thing you want on a laptop is something always actively using the processor when it doesn't need to[04:41:37] <__ToddB__> only true if you aren't actively using notebook, it throttles cpu pretty well depending on what you are doing..[04:41:50] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[04:42:03] <umccullough_w> well, if i'm typing or searching the web, I expect little processor usage[04:42:10] <__ToddB__> and you will see that..[04:42:16] <umccullough_w> i mean, a machine should be 99% inactive :)[04:42:33] <umccullough_w> unless i'm pounding it with distributed computing apps - then I expect 110% out of it![04:42:38] <__ToddB__> my cpu usage usually hovers around 2-5% unless I am compiling[04:42:39] <ari-linux> it seems haiku hasn't even begun to exhaust the optimization potentital[04:42:53] *** Stargater has quit IRC[04:43:12] <__ToddB__> when had power outage, got about an hour out of my laptop, and 3 out of my wifes[04:43:25] <__ToddB__> closer to 1.5 hours for me, and 4.5 out of hers[04:43:42] <DocPheniX> i need to recondition my lappy battery[04:43:53] <DocPheniX> i get like .. 40min atm[04:44:17] <umccullough_w> i get like 15 mins on one of mine :P[04:44:18] <__ToddB__> though switched hers to a low power consumption mode, didn't realize could do that on my laptop at the time, and she has a 12 cell battery, vs my 6 on my 17 inch[04:44:33] <__ToddB__> my older laptop only gets around 45 minutes[04:44:34] <umccullough_w> damn, that sounds like a gigantic laptop[04:44:40] <umccullough_w> 12-cell[04:45:00] <__ToddB__> hers is a 15 inch, the battery sticks out of bottom so tilts her laptop[04:46:17] <umccullough_w> the best laptop i have is an old inspiron 1100 with a battery scavenged out of an inspiron 5150 ;)[04:46:29] <umccullough_w> i think it lasts for over 2 hours[04:46:33] <umccullough_w> but i haven't tested it[04:46:50] <__ToddB__> power outage is good time to test, had no light but 3 laptops, so watched movies[04:47:03] <umccullough_w> yeah, i know the routine[04:47:14] <umccullough_w> i have 3 kids[04:47:20] <__ToddB__> heh[04:47:38] <umccullough_w> power was out for a whole week a few months ago[04:47:49] <umccullough_w> well, not quite a whole week...[04:47:59] <__ToddB__> I wouldn't leave work.. heh[04:48:06] <ari-linux> you'd probably want to conserve power next time in case of something happening[04:48:12] <umccullough_w> it was over 4 days though[04:48:34] <umccullough_w> we had a generator - so it wasn't too bad[04:48:38] <ari-linux> i remember the blackout of 2003[04:48:42] <umccullough_w> could run the essentials off the generator[04:48:51] <ari-linux> one day but it was so dramatic[04:49:12] <umccullough_w> yeah, each winter we usually get a day or two of no power - sometimes 3 or 4 :([04:49:34] <ari-linux> we had charcoal so we made a fire[04:49:47] <__ToddB__> don't really have much of a winter here.. think it gets down to around under 50 sometimes[04:49:54] <umccullough_w> heh[04:50:22] <umccullough_w> i sorta live in the mountains[04:50:25] <__ToddB__> it gets cold about as often as it rains[04:50:43] <__ToddB__> I live 15 minutes from pismo beach[04:50:46] <umccullough_w> foothills really 2600ft elevation[04:50:52] <umccullough_w> ah, pismo - nice :)[04:51:24] <umccullough_w> you can drive on the beach there right?[04:51:35] <umccullough_w> dunes and what-not?[04:51:45] <ari-linux> man this is one long update[04:51:48] <__ToddB__> you can drive on the dunes, I never been to the beach here...[04:54:45] <__ToddB__> think I am going to be in the bay area this weekend...[04:54:51] <umccullough_w> oh yeah?[04:54:54] <umccullough_w> i will be also[04:55:01] <__ToddB__> yeah, going to take my wife to the pier to eat seafood[04:55:07] <umccullough_w> cool :)[04:55:18] <__ToddB__> might talk her into going to fryes electronics, I have never been to one[04:55:21] <umccullough_w> i'll probably end up at the pier at some point myself[04:55:40] <umccullough_w> there's a frys down the road from where i work :/[04:55:48] <__ToddB__> heh..[04:55:49] <umccullough_w> and another one 15 minutes away[04:56:01] <__ToddB__> closest thing we have is radio shack, which is not even close[04:56:03] <ari-linux> brb[04:56:15] *** pyCube has quit IRC[04:56:28] <umccullough_w> Frys is interesting the first couple times you go - then you pretty much hate it[04:56:45] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[04:56:48] *** ari-linux has quit IRC[04:58:03] <__ToddB__> would like the chance to hate it.. :)[04:58:16] <umccullough_w> some of them are themed[04:58:21] <umccullough_w> some, not so much[04:58:30] <umccullough_w> the one down the road is railroad-theme[04:59:09] <umccullough_w> and it's pretty new - only opened like a year ago[05:00:39] <__ToddB__> where is this?[05:01:00] <__ToddB__> you going to any of the msft launch events?[05:01:06] <pyCube> over there[05:01:13] <__ToddB__> heh[05:01:24] <umccullough_w> __ToddB__, i'm in the Sacramento area[05:01:34] <__ToddB__> ah...[05:01:36] <umccullough_w> no, i don't go to the ms launch events - but one of my coworkers does[05:02:03] <__ToddB__> free 2008 server, sql and visual studio, my wife and I are going to the one in san diego[05:02:11] <umccullough_w> yeah - he gets that shit all the time[05:02:16] <umccullough_w> i don't have time for that though[05:02:22] <umccullough_w> see, i'm at work right now[05:02:31] <umccullough_w> trying to finish up something - but clearly distracted ;)[05:02:41] <umccullough_w> i lose focus after 6pm[05:02:41] <__ToddB__> heh, about to say, working hard.. :P[05:02:50] <__ToddB__> I lose focus around 8 AM[05:02:57] <umccullough_w> i'm working though - writing a bunch of SQL :P[05:03:08] <pyCube> i dont get focus until ~4pm[05:03:10] <__ToddB__> which version.. :)[05:03:20] <umccullough_w> 2k/2k5 - we support both[05:03:40] <__ToddB__> doesn't every sql server use its own version?[05:03:49] <umccullough_w> MSSQL?[05:03:53] <pyCube> eesh.. mssql[05:04:00] * pyCube shudders[05:04:08] <umccullough_w> pyCube, T-SQL is what i've been writing since like 1999[05:04:10] <__ToddB__> oh, heh, I know nothing about mssql, when I did sql on windows, used .net wrapper for sql lite[05:04:23] <umccullough_w> __ToddB__, ah, i do mostly straight T-SQL[05:04:28] <__ToddB__> cant you use access to automagically do that for you?[05:04:28] <DeadYak> __ToddB__: yes and no, there's the standard SQL spec that most adhere to to some extent or other, and most also have some extensions of their own[05:04:39] <DeadYak> access? ew[05:04:42] <umccullough_w> access?[05:04:47] <umccullough_w> that's not even a real database platform[05:04:56] <__ToddB__> like sql lite stores everything as string, and some sql's don't support null correctly[05:05:09] <umccullough_w> holy crap..sounds lame[05:05:18] <pyCube> sqlite is nice[05:05:20] <__ToddB__> thought access was for interfacing with sql servers, I can't even use excel..[05:05:24] * DeadYak has nightmare flashbacks to various "enterprise" apps that were really Access-based apps and got horribly corrupted when people used them concurrently on the network[05:05:24] <umccullough_w> all ANSI-SQL92 here[05:05:30] <__ToddB__> and word, is the worst program ever written[05:05:34] <DeadYak> __ToddB__: access is its own lightweight db app.[05:05:43] <DeadYak> it has next to nothing to do with interfacing with a real SQL server[05:05:50] <umccullough_w> DeadYak, we migrate customers from access quite often :/[05:05:53] <__ToddB__> oh.. thats stupid.. heh[05:05:58] <DeadYak> umccullough_w: depressing isn't it?[05:06:01] <umccullough_w> yes[05:06:08] * DeadYak pets Postgres[05:06:14] <umccullough_w> some of them are bright enough that they converted their access systems to use MSSQL as the backend[05:06:16] <__ToddB__> so you can't use access with sqlserver 2005?[05:06:20] <pyCube> i miss postgres[05:06:23] <umccullough_w> __ToddB__, you can[05:06:26] *** Disreali has joined #haiku[05:06:27] <pyCube> its all mysql where i work now[05:06:28] <DeadYak> pyCube: I love it[05:06:31] <pyCube> yeah.. me too[05:06:33] <umccullough_w> but then access becomes nothing more than VB really ;)[05:06:38] <__ToddB__> I only ever used postgresql and sqlite[05:07:17] <umccullough_w> our system is currently non-portable to any other platform[05:07:23] <umccullough_w> we use T-SQL heavily[05:07:32] <umccullough_w> pretty much all aspects of it[05:08:01] <pyCube> i do want to know.. in a db, a bool field.. should there meaning to null, outside of true/false? or should null == false?[05:08:09] <umccullough_w> i have re-written stored procs that are thousands of lines long :([05:08:17] <DeadYak> pyCube: null is neither[05:08:23] <DeadYak> pyCube: it's the absence of a value[05:08:23] <umccullough_w> pyCube, null is the absense of value[05:08:26] <umccullough_w> :)[05:08:29] <pyCube> right[05:08:30] <DeadYak> which is why sql always treats it special[05:08:31] <pyCube> i know[05:08:36] <__ToddB__> in mysql null is 0 and evals to false[05:08:38] <umccullough_w> for example - if there's a checkbox on a screen and you don't know the answer - NULL[05:08:41] <pyCube> so bool fields arent really bool[05:09:15] <pyCube> __ToddB__: it bugs me in mysql that bool is 0/1[05:09:18] <pyCube> hehe[05:09:19] <__ToddB__> only time bools are really just bit flags is in structs in c[05:09:41] <umccullough_w> a database boolean that doesn't support NULL is unfortunate :/[05:09:42] <__ToddB__> in forth false is all 1's and true is 0[05:09:47] <umccullough_w> guess you'd have to use an int or string[05:10:01] <DeadYak> pyCube: well, in all fairness it's not really giving a third value to a bool as it is showing that that row hasn't had any value assigned to the column[05:10:14] <DeadYak> imo it's not a good idea to assume that the answer is false because there's no answer set :)[05:10:21] <umccullough_w> DeadYak, exactly[05:10:24] <pyCube> DeadYak: sure.. but that column could be one of 3 'states'[05:10:25] <DeadYak> though if you really want that in postgres you could always do col boolean default 'f'[05:10:26] <__ToddB__> I got that backwards, true is all 1's and false is zero, so you can compare bitwise[05:10:30] <umccullough_w> that's like saying a date that isn't set is 1/1/900[05:10:32] <umccullough_w> 1900[05:10:41] <umccullough_w> __ToddB__, that's standard[05:10:56] <__ToddB__> 11111111 for true is not standard[05:11:00] <umccullough_w> pyCube, null isn't exactly a state per-se[05:11:12] <umccullough_w> not really anyhow[05:11:25] <__ToddB__> bool in c is #define TRUE 1 #define FALSE 0[05:11:27] <umccullough_w> it's that type of thinking that gets people in trouble when working with nulls ;)[05:11:36] <pyCube> hehe[05:11:39] <DeadYak> that'd be true if booleans were special in that respect[05:11:43] <DeadYak> but any column type in sql works that way[05:11:50] <DeadYak> i.e. where x = 0 won't return null columns either[05:11:53] <umccullough_w> you can't for example compare two columns for equality when they're both null[05:11:54] <DeadYak> assuming x is an int[05:12:00] <pyCube> yeah[05:12:07] <umccullough_w> or even when one is null[05:13:20] <pyCube> still.. there are 3 possible values to a bool col[05:13:22] <pyCube> hehe[05:13:36] <pyCube> even if null isnt technically a value[05:13:39] <umccullough_w> well, there's two values and the lack of value[05:13:43] <__ToddB__> yes, no, and not sure[05:13:54] <umccullough_w> not quite - but close :)[05:14:02] <umccullough_w> yes no and not defined[05:14:08] <__ToddB__> true false 42[05:14:38] <pyCube> depending on what the table 'represents', that null 'state' in bool col could mean many different things[05:14:43] <__ToddB__> how did mysql get to be the most popular?[05:14:48] <umccullough_w> it's free[05:15:12] <__ToddB__> wasn't postgres always free?[05:15:18] <pyCube> i dunno.. but i like postgresql a lot better.. call it 'used to it', but still, i like it[05:15:46] <umccullough_w> i'm not even sure i'd call mysql "the most popular"[05:16:00] <umccullough_w> for example - i think the most popular in enterprises is probably Oracle[05:16:01] <pyCube> i think, at least at one point, mysql had a less steep startup/learning curve[05:16:13] <pyCube> setup[05:16:16] <umccullough_w> and the most popular in microsoft shops is probably SQLServer[05:16:27] <__ToddB__> I think it was because mysql could run on windows and was free[05:16:58] *** ari-linux has joined #haiku[05:17:07] <ari-linux> ok a bit better[05:17:32] <ari-linux> played with stupid wobbly windows[05:17:41] <umccullough_w> ugh[05:17:48] <umccullough_w> that was neat for like a day[05:17:55] <ari-linux> neat for 1 minute[05:18:06] <umccullough_w> well, i endured it for a day ;)[05:18:07] <ari-linux> I'm sure they spent months on that code[05:18:23] <umccullough_w> to each their own[05:19:00] *** AlexForster has quit IRC[05:19:03] <umccullough_w> DeadYak, worse than the people using access for database...[05:19:14] <umccullough_w> most of our customers actually use MS Excel[05:19:28] <ari-linux> shadows do make such a difference[05:20:33] <__ToddB__> excel can be converted to csv files which are really easy to send to sqlserver[05:20:48] <umccullough_w> __ToddB__, that's not the issue[05:20:57] <umccullough_w> and...bite your tongue, you have no clue ;)[05:21:00] <__ToddB__> whats the issue?[05:21:17] <umccullough_w> when the entire spreadsheet is an application[05:21:35] <__ToddB__> I did it a year ago, even made it generate c# code for me to query, it was cool project, too bad we never used it..[05:22:19] <umccullough_w> I'm looking at a spreadsheet right now that has over 50 worksheets (tabs)[05:22:30] <umccullough_w> they all reference each other[05:22:42] <umccullough_w> most of them are just formatted "reports" pulling data from the others[05:22:52] <umccullough_w> completely with formulas and vlookups[05:23:15] <umccullough_w> this one .xls file represents a quote for a single insurance customer[05:23:30] <umccullough_w> it's >2mb[05:23:30] <pyCube> good god.. sounds like a whole lot of not fun[05:23:49] <__ToddB__> most excel forms seen are more application then spreadsheet, have text and graphs all over the place[05:23:50] <umccullough_w> one quote for one customers for one year[05:23:53] <__ToddB__> my boss loves excel[05:24:08] <umccullough_w> the public risk insurance industry is pretty much built on excel[05:24:29] <__ToddB__> engineers love excel, they use it for everything[05:24:34] <umccullough_w> there is absolutely no way i can take this xls file and create any sort of comprehensible .csv from it[05:24:47] <__ToddB__> heh, but if you could. it would be easy.. :P[05:25:23] <umccullough_w> I would have to write a program that read each relevant cell from each sheet in the workbook and stuffed it into a column somewhere[05:26:23] <umccullough_w> my favorite ... there are always cells with text next to them that say "Don't edit this value, it's a formula" - and then you check and someone has typed a value over the formula[05:26:30] <pyCube> thats the problem with not-free software.. people blow wads of cash on something and feel compelled to use it for everything...even when its totally not the right tool[05:27:00] <__ToddB__> no, the real problem is excel can do anything if you try hard enough, and its so much easier just to use one tool..[05:27:09] <umccullough_w> pyCube, i'm guessing it's more likely that people who have only enough interest to learn excel so they can do their job choose to use it for everything because it allows them to[05:27:11] <pyCube> fuck excel[05:27:18] <pyCube> :-p[05:27:37] <umccullough_w> speaking of csv - excel destroys them[05:28:00] <umccullough_w> it converts text that *looks* like a number into a number and doesn't provide any notification or way to change it back[05:28:42] <pyCube> i remember back when i was in layout/gfx design at a print shop.. used to get to convert many an excel file into quarkXpress[05:30:40] <__ToddB__> eh, quark.. *shudder* now thats a crappy program[05:31:07] <pyCube> beat the hell out of pagemaker[05:31:31] <__ToddB__> heh.. well yeah.. or it used to anyways...[05:31:49] <pyCube> yeah.. this was mid-late 90's[05:32:02] <__ToddB__> the macosx fiasco gave pagemaker the upper hand[05:40:45] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[05:41:25] *** TheNerd_ has joined #haiku[05:46:14] *** daste has quit IRC[05:46:52] *** Wiss_ has quit IRC[05:50:19] <DHowett> Hmm, the new vfs layer doesn't have *_type in the fs_walk call.. how would one handle porting a filesystem that returns information via *_type?[05:50:24] <DHowett> porting as in updating, really[05:52:08] <DeadYak> DHowett: was that not listed in Ingo's guide?[05:52:19] <DHowett> Couldn't find said guide >_>[05:52:29] <DeadYak> DHowett: on the mailing list, one sec[05:52:43] <DHowett> I read about it in a commit message and looked, at least on haiku-os.org[05:53:06] <DHowett> I'm only subscribed to -development.. but i'd assume it'd be there[05:55:25] <umccullough_w> look for ingo's reponse to Rene ;)[05:56:12] <DeadYak> that's what I'm trying to find...[05:56:22] <DeadYak> for some reason I'm failing to remember which thread that was in[05:56:26] <umccullough_w> probably the commit list[05:56:36] *** TheNerd has quit IRC[05:57:11] *** TheNerd__ has joined #haiku[05:57:40] <umccullough_w> found it[05:57:56] <umccullough_w> it was on the commit list thread for r24924[05:59:13] <DHowett> thanks umccullough_w :)[05:59:16] <DeadYak> found it[05:59:20] <DeadYak> umccullough_w: yeah[05:59:21] <umccullough_w> http://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/haiku-commits/2008-April/012943.html[05:59:22] <DHowett> [likewise][05:59:31] <DeadYak> I skipped over that one since I noticed it started off relating to keymaps :/[05:59:37] <umccullough_w> heh[05:59:42] <umccullough_w> gmail search wins![05:59:42] <DHowett> yeah[06:00:19] <umccullough_w> the suck part is having to go find it in the berlios archives ;)[06:00:23] <DeadYak> umccullough_w: that's what I was using, I guess I fail at picking keywords[06:00:28] <umccullough_w> lol[06:00:37] <DeadYak> actually at first I was restricting it to haiku-dev because I forgot it was on a commit[06:00:40] <umccullough_w> i used "rene" and "iso9660" since I remember that ware part of the discussion ;)[06:00:58] <DeadYak> ah[06:01:01] <umccullough_w> gave me 2 threads[06:01:02] <DeadYak> well, Starred that one now[06:01:08] <umccullough_w> one from 2007[06:01:46] <DHowett> saved it to an html file here, since it's not in my inbox :P not subscribed to the commit list[06:01:50] * umccullough_w just finished re-implementing a million-step calculation in a SQL view[06:02:06] <umccullough_w> i'm overly subscribed to everything haiku[06:02:07] <DeadYak> DHowett: commit list's pretty useful if you're keeping track of the actual code :)[06:02:11] <umccullough_w> except he kernel list :P[06:02:23] <DeadYak> I'm on that one! :P[06:02:25] <umccullough_w> heh[06:02:28] <umccullough_w> i used to be IIRC[06:02:36] <umccullough_w> or at least, i used to check it often[06:02:41] *** ari-linux has quit IRC[06:02:58] <umccullough_w> this view ended up being 7 sub-selects deep[06:03:01] <umccullough_w> guess that's not too bad[06:03:06] <DHowett> I keep track of the commits with a brief script that just does svn log -r BASE:HEAD | less and then svn up when i quit less[06:03:10] <umccullough_w> i've done much worse[06:03:11] <DHowett> pfft, mailing list ;P[06:03:41] <umccullough_w> and actually, i left out the innermost logic because i'm lacking the data still - will probably add another 3 or 4 subselects[06:04:02] <MindChild> Ride the Hasselhoff[06:04:12] <DeadYak> DHowett: I dunno, it's pretty helpful to actually have a record of the diffs, we catch each other's mistakes looking over those all the time[06:04:26] <umccullough_w> DHowett, there's a lot of discussion that occurs on the commit list also[06:04:31] <DeadYak> and that[06:04:42] <umccullough_w> more than just "busted build" ;)[06:05:03] <umccullough_w> i'm also sub'd to the trac bug list[06:05:07] *** TheNerd has joined #haiku[06:05:10] <umccullough_w> so i see every comment that gets added :/[06:05:24] <DHowett> Suppose I'm subscribing then :) hehe[06:05:27] <umccullough_w> useful if you're trying to keep on top of what the newes issues are[06:05:32] <umccullough_w> newest[06:05:39] <DHowett> Can't let gems like the fs updating guide slip away ;P[06:05:57] <umccullough_w> DHowett, hopefully you're ready for some volume ;)[06:06:23] <DeadYak> I might also note I generally find my SVN commit archive on gmail far more usable performance-wise than svn log on berlios :P[06:06:31] <umccullough_w> yes[06:06:38] <umccullough_w> and reliable even ;)[06:06:43] <DHowett> DeadYak: Yeah.. i spent 5 minutes waiting for an svn log to show up before i remembered berlios was down :P[06:06:55] *** ari-free has joined #haiku[06:07:14] <umccullough_w> i like having all haiku-related information in one searchable archive[06:07:27] <DeadYak> DHowett: which FS are you looking at anyways?[06:08:03] <DHowett> iso9660.. I figured it'd be useful to have (somebody was in here a couple nights ago wondering why their CDs wouldn't work in haiku ..)[06:08:17] <DeadYak> ah[06:11:32] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[06:12:48] *** TheNerd_ has quit IRC[06:13:02] <umccullough_w> i should go home :/[06:14:46] *** infamy has joined #haiku[06:17:52] *** pyCube has quit IRC[06:19:40] *** TheNerd__ has quit IRC[06:24:41] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku[06:24:50] *** umccullough_w has quit IRC[06:26:47] <DHowett> Hmmm..[06:27:21] <DHowett> why does iso9660 set B_FS_IS_PERSISTENT .. instead of B_FS_IS_REMOVABLE? o.O[06:27:37] <DHowett> maybe in my mind i'm too heavily linking iso9660 and CDs.. not that i've seen it on another storage medium[06:28:30] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[06:28:38] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[06:28:44] * JonathanThompson remembers working on the code for an ISO 9660 formatter under DOS[06:29:36] <DeadYak> DHowett: it's entirely possible that driver's doing something wrong :)[06:29:42] <DeadYak> DHowett: that one is based on Be sample code[06:29:45] <DHowett> ahh[06:29:56] <pyCube> hi JonathanThompson[06:30:10] <JonathanThompson> Greetings, presumed earthlings :)[06:34:27] *** __ToddB__ has quit IRC[06:34:27] *** ari-free has quit IRC[06:39:55] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku[06:39:56] *** pyCube has quit IRC[06:40:39] <pyCube_> yep[06:40:47] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC[06:44:39] <aroman> sudo jam[06:44:46] <aroman> oops! wrong window :P[06:44:54] *** {V}zzz has quit IRC[06:44:57] * JonathanThompson sudo's aroman[06:45:20] <aroman> good thing I didn't enter my password too! :)[06:45:52] <aroman> how does jam update-image work if I'm installing to my hard drive?[06:46:16] <aroman> as in, does it update the partition with my newly built binaries?[06:48:43] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[06:50:38] <DHowett> testing iso9660 as ported per Ingo's guidelines.. I ported it before, by diffing the FAT changes and seeing what changed, and got NULL on a cached read.. Yay, KDL!.[06:50:45] <DHowett> Here goes ;) well, it's still generating[06:52:19] <DHowett> Where would be the best place to put a patch, if it.. I have a terminal that's wider than the screen and about 1 character tall. Bah.[06:53:22] <DHowett> cache_io() called with NULL ref! >_<[06:59:12] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku[07:05:12] <DHowett> Either my root node mode or the fact that i changed it to REMOVABLE makes it not show up at all in tracker[07:17:34] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[07:18:27] <Begasus> morning[07:18:33] <DHowett> mornin' begasus[07:26:56] <umccullough> pseudo jam[07:27:08] *** mindchld2 has joined #haiku[07:28:33] <DHowett> sweet. I've brought iso9660 up-to-date with the new VFS changes.[07:28:56] <aroman> DHowett: comit! :P[07:29:22] <umccullough> huh... strange[07:29:31] <DHowett> Don't have commit access. :P[07:29:41] <umccullough> submit patch :)[07:29:48] <umccullough> Trac preferred[07:29:49] <aroman> yea![07:29:57] <DHowett> alright, was just about to ask whereto. hehe[07:30:03] <DHowett> testing one thing though.. yay![07:30:24] <umccullough> i assume you checked for coding style, etc.[07:30:39] <DHowett> Pretty sure I didn't violate coding style :)[07:30:56] <umccullough> so, on a xubuntu box i just installed - whenever I choose "terminal" from the accessories menu, it restarts X[07:31:05] <umccullough> brings me back to the login screen[07:31:09] <umccullough> quite obnoxious :P[07:31:10] <DHowett> Was the icon for a CD-ROM always the file cabinet? that seems a bit odd.[07:31:36] <DHowett> when i change it from persistent to removable, it doesn't show up anywhere in tracker.[07:32:48] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[07:35:53] <DHowett> If i didn't have class at 10am and have to go to bed, i'd do more filesystems. This is fun..[07:36:29] <umccullough> oh jeez, looks like it's a bug with the intel driver and an i810 with xfce terminal and 24bit color[07:36:29] *** mats has quit IRC[07:36:33] <umccullough> nasty[07:36:43] <umccullough> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-terminal/+bug/91849[07:36:53] <Penix> DHowett: got time to whip up a diff and stick it on trac before bed? :)[07:37:00] <DHowett> doing so :)[07:37:03] <Penix> yay[07:37:35] <DHowett> 2089[07:39:02] <umccullough> cool :)[07:40:11] <DHowett> And about to upload a revised version.[07:40:22] <DHowett> haiku's trac's kinda slow ><[07:40:39] <Penix> notoriously ;)[07:41:20] <DHowett> and there :)[07:42:15] *** cps1966 has joined #haiku[07:42:32] *** _Megaf has quit IRC[07:44:47] <umccullough> want i should test it?[07:44:51] <aroman> DHowett: gonna try it now :)[07:44:57] <umccullough> ah, nevermind :)[07:45:47] *** MindChild has quit IRC[07:46:55] <umccullough> I *hate* linux' stealing focus while the updater is running[07:47:03] <umccullough> updates are meant to be a BACKGROUND task[07:47:26] <aroman> :/ some hunks are failing...[07:47:31] <aroman> lemme re-svn up[07:47:38] <DHowett> from 24993[07:47:44] <DHowett> er, my patch is from 24993[07:48:05] <aroman> what's current?[07:48:12] <aroman> that's current[07:48:17] <aroman> lemme try[07:48:24] <umccullough> aroman, make sure you don't have any changes in your tree also[07:48:28] <Penix> umccullough: the notification tray popups?[07:48:29] <umccullough> as in - run svn stat[07:48:30] <aroman> umccullough: that was it[07:48:31] <aroman> :)[07:48:48] <aroman> I was playing with the iso fs too :P maybe I made some changes... :/[07:48:53] <umccullough> Penix, no, the dialog that pops to the front to tell me it's downloading updates *after* i start the process[07:49:16] <aroman> so, how does jam update-image work for a hard drive partition? does it update the partition?[07:49:34] <umccullough> aroman, that doesn't do what you think :)[07:49:40] <DHowett> I tried to update-image a file and it didn't act like it was copying the new iso9660 add-on to it :P[07:49:42] <umccullough> you have to give it a target to update[07:49:43] <aroman> damn it :P[07:49:44] <DHowett> yeah[07:49:45] <DHowett> :P[07:49:51] <Penix> is there any non-destructive partition update function yet?[07:50:04] <umccullough> Penix, that is basically it - but it does one thing at a time[07:50:05] <aroman> it would be useful :P[07:50:08] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku[07:50:11] <Penix> cool[07:50:32] <umccullough> if you use beos, the install-haiku is non-destructive because it uses the host filesystem to copy the files to the target partition[07:50:46] <umccullough> and just overwrites all files that are the same[07:50:53] <Penix> so cross-install with bfs_shell etc. reinitializes and all the rest?[07:50:59] <umccullough> sorta[07:51:20] <umccullough> supposedly there's a way to have it copy all the targets over fresh - but i've never been able to make it work as supposed[07:51:30] <umccullough> ingo would be the guy to ask[07:51:32] <Penix> yeah, that's what I've been after[07:51:51] <aroman> yeah I'm just installing it now[07:52:04] <Penix> I'll have to give update-image a whirl tonight though. still sounds like it'd be pretty useful[07:52:16] <umccullough> Penix, basically, i've just gotten in the habit of including everything i want on the image as part of the build process :/[07:52:30] <Penix> tree and all?[07:52:37] <umccullough> it's useful if you're working on a single target and just updating the image with it by itself[07:52:53] <umccullough> Penix, not the tree...not quite yet ;)[07:52:59] <Penix> heh[07:53:16] <umccullough> although, i created a tarball of the tree at one point to copy over just in case[07:53:35] <umccullough> you can actually copy the source directories over easily with the UserBuildConfig[07:53:39] <umccullough> but would take forever :P[07:54:10] <umccullough> ah, the other thing i do is keep another BFS partition for stuff like that[07:54:26] <umccullough> most of my haiku test machines have 3 10gb primary partitions with linux installed at the end of the disk[07:54:29] <aroman> DHowett: did you enable building the new fs?[07:54:44] <DHowett> aroman: Oh. No. Meh :P[07:54:51] <aroman> haha[07:54:58] <umccullough> aroman, just add it to your UserBuildConfig ;)[07:55:02] <aroman> DHowett: is it in UserBuildConfig? or the main Jamfile?[07:55:22] *** _Megaf is now known as Megaf_[07:55:50] <aroman> umccullough: let's see... first time doing anything like that :P[07:55:53] <DHowett> I put it in HaikuBuildImage[07:55:56] <umccullough> hang on[07:56:17] <aroman> dang... how do I manage to pick the BeOS R5 CD to put in the CD-ROM? lol[07:56:20] <aroman> err... BeOS Max[07:56:40] <umccullough> add this to your UserBuildConfig:[07:56:41] <umccullough> AddFilesToHaikuImage beos system add-ons kernel file_systems : iso9660 ;[07:56:55] <umccullough> (assuming iso9660 is the name of the target)[07:57:04] <DHowett> it is[07:57:10] <aroman> umccullough: ah cool[07:57:22] <Begasus> ps ... thnx for the info about the UserBuildConfig umccullough ;)[07:57:29] <aroman> I've been playing with Jam for a school project for next term...[07:57:31] <umccullough> you'll see that's how it's done in HaikuImage - except it creates a variable with all the filesystems first and adds them all at once[07:57:32] <aroman> it's nice :)[07:57:41] <aroman> but kinda hard to grasp at first :P[07:58:09] <DHowett> nah, it doesn't make a list of the filesystems in a var..[07:58:11] <DHowett> BEOS_ADD_ONS_FILE_SYSTEMS = bfs fat iso9660 ;[07:58:12] <DHowett> #cdda googlefs nfs $(GPL_ONLY)ntfs ;[07:58:12] <umccullough> jam is kinda easy - but the Haiku build system is loaded with all kinds of rules :)[07:58:13] <DHowett> ..[07:58:17] <DHowett> ..[07:58:20] <DHowett> ignore[07:58:21] <DHowett> that.[07:58:22] <DHowett> :)[07:58:32] <umccullough> DHowett, BEOS_ADD_ONS_FILE_SYSTEMS is a var :)[07:58:39] <DHowett> umccullough: IGNORE! :-D[07:58:40] <DHowett> hehe[07:58:42] <umccullough> ah[07:58:44] <umccullough> ok :)[07:59:02] <DHowett> It's 2AM, i'm not responsible for thought :)[07:59:07] <umccullough> ok[08:01:13] <umccullough> oh wow[08:01:19] <umccullough> vlance is commented out of the network driver[08:01:21] <umccullough> list[08:01:37] <umccullough> i think someone was complaining about that recently[08:01:44] <umccullough> or maybe that was something else[08:01:53] <umccullough> crappy driver anyway ;)[08:02:21] <Thom_Holwerda> do you guys like the 'new style' items we do now on osnews? with more information under the 'read more' button, even for normal items?[08:03:52] <aroman> g/j DHowett[08:03:54] <aroman> :)[08:03:59] <aroman> works[08:04:13] <aroman> I will try udf or something :P[08:04:50] <umccullough> udf is a different filesystem :/[08:05:06] <DHowett> Thanks :)[08:05:18] <DHowett> I plan on knocking out a few more filesystems tomorrow[08:05:21] <aroman> DHowett: did you say you have some guidelines from ingo for porting to the new vfs? or just his patches?[08:05:34] <aroman> sorry, by try I meant try to port :P[08:05:45] <umccullough> oh, i don't think udf is even finished[08:05:52] <aroman> oh :P[08:06:09] <umccullough> there were a couple others there though[08:06:15] <DHowett> Well, first I used the recent changes to the fat driver.. and got to where i got hung up porting this one. Then I reverted, did this one, and got hung up at the same spot. So, either way.[08:06:16] <umccullough> googlefs[08:06:26] <DHowett> aroman: Guidelines :)[08:06:26] <umccullough> ntfs[08:06:31] <DHowett> nfs[08:06:36] <umccullough> nfs yeah[08:06:41] <umccullough> ntfs is gpl_only :)[08:06:54] <pyCube_> fsfs[08:07:16] <DHowett> aroman: http://dhowett.rh.rit.edu/~dustin/fs_guidelines.html saved from the commits ml[08:07:28] *** koki_haiku has quit IRC[08:09:16] <aroman> hmmm maybe I'll try nfs... :)[08:09:19] <aroman> anyone working on that?[08:13:40] *** A-v-S has quit IRC[08:15:12] <aroman> DHowett: thanks for the link :)[08:15:43] <DHowett> aroman: no problem :) I suggest saving a copy.. it's hosted from my laptop.. doesn't move much but randomly goes crazy.[08:15:54] <aroman> haha ok[08:17:49] <aroman> DHowett: actually, I have that mail too :P[08:18:05] <aroman> it's just under a revision where preferences/keymap changed... O_o lol[08:18:15] <umccullough> yeah[08:18:36] <umccullough> we had fun locating it earlier ;)[08:19:09] <DHowett> hehe yeah.. the reason I saved it is because I wasn't subscribed to commits at the time ;)[08:22:58] <DHowett> Night. :P[08:23:11] <aroman> night DHowett[08:23:56] *** DHowett has left #haiku[08:26:45] <CIA-34> mmlr * r24994 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs):[08:26:45] <CIA-34> * Applying patch by Dustin Howett that updates the iso9660 filesystem to the[08:26:45] <CIA-34> new filesystem interface.[08:26:45] <CIA-34> * Renamed sISO* to gISO* though as they are in fact not static.[08:26:45] <CIA-34> Briefly tested and works as expected. Thanks for your work Dustin![08:26:46] <CIA-34> Closes enhancement #2089.[08:29:12] <Begasus> someone could add libgen.h and features.h in the dev section also? ;)[08:29:50] <Begasus> libgen.h has been added last evening with some files (including dirname.c) in the glibc section for libroot[08:30:25] <Begasus> the header (libgen.h) isn't included when one makes a build with the developers enviroment though[08:30:54] <Begasus> features.h is lacking also ....[08:30:56] * Begasus ducks[09:08:24] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[09:12:11] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[09:12:12] <Stargater> hi[09:15:17] <Penix> hmm. got my haiku box hooked up to my tv[09:18:55] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[09:35:10] *** Begasus is now known as Begasus_blb[09:35:17] *** Begasus_blb is now known as Begasus_bbl[09:40:56] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[09:40:57] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC[09:45:06] *** ari-linux has joined #haiku[09:45:32] <ari-linux> aha i'm so cool now.[09:45:49] * JonathanThompson points finger at ari-linux and laughs[09:46:04] <ari-linux> figured out how to make firefox on linux though still in the process[09:46:15] <ari-linux> this may take a while[09:48:26] <ari-linux> can't wait to see it when it's finished[09:51:06] <JonathanThompson> How long has it taken thus far?[09:51:50] <ari-linux> several minutes now. I had a lot of trial and error before as it just couldn't make past a few screens[09:51:59] <ari-linux> now it's chugging away[09:52:38] <ari-linux> i never compiled an app on linux before so i figured firefox would be a nice challenge[09:52:38] *** mindchld2 has quit IRC[09:52:41] *** MindChild has joined #haiku[09:52:46] <JonathanThompson> As large as the code base appears to be the last time I downloaded it for Haiku (I think I downloaded the code, but never built it) I expect it'll take > 30 minutes if everything goes as intended.[09:52:59] <JonathanThompson> I think you picked a bugger to start with ;)[09:53:21] <JonathanThompson> Of course, a bigger bugger would likely be Open Office ;)[09:53:28] <ari-linux> there were a couple things i had to install first. and I had to get a config file correct[09:53:44] <PulkoMandy> JonathanThompson: i think it's a little below 30 minutes in fact, but depends on the hard disk speed :)[09:53:57] <Thom_Holwerda> ok, would you consider 1200USD a lot of money, or not?[09:53:59] <JonathanThompson> Ah, the fun of cross-system building configuration flexibility :D[09:54:00] <Stargater> cu[09:54:03] *** Stargater has quit IRC[09:54:13] <JonathanThompson> In what context, Thom_Holwerda?[09:54:16] <ari-linux> i also had to learn bash by throwing myself into it[09:54:24] <ari-linux> that's the best way :)[09:54:27] <Thom_Holwerda> http://www.osnews.com/thread?310024[09:54:34] <Thom_Holwerda> my reply dangles underneath.[09:55:29] <JonathanThompson> Wow, I wish I had such affordable health insurance ;)[09:55:41] <JonathanThompson> Not to mention rent costs...[09:55:49] <JonathanThompson> Or school costs.[09:55:56] <Thom_Holwerda> but you get the idea.[09:56:08] <JonathanThompson> It's all relative.[09:56:09] <Thom_Holwerda> JonathanThompson: we pay a lot more taxes than you do, so it evens out[09:56:16] <JonathanThompson> Ah, perhaps.[09:56:26] <Thom_Holwerda> 50% of my paycheck goes to the state.[09:56:29] <ari-linux> no such thing as a free lunch[09:56:32] <Thom_Holwerda> VAT is 19%.[09:56:43] <JonathanThompson> But for paying for stuff out of pocket, well, that's not even one month's of rent for my apartment.[09:56:43] <Thom_Holwerda> one litre of petrol is 1.5E.[09:56:46] *** Odium has quit IRC[09:56:58] <JonathanThompson> Yes, everything has a price somehow of some sort.[09:57:43] <JonathanThompson> And I admit, I live in a rather nice apartment in a rather nice downtown of a rather nice small city on an island in the middle of Seattle (not a poor place overall, and not cheap) and Bellevue.[09:58:43] <JonathanThompson> But, I wish I had the money I felt I could say, "if I was over there, I'd buy you the damn thing; $1200 is chump change." because I don't make THAT much money.[09:59:03] <Thom_Holwerda> my point exactly.[09:59:04] <ari-linux> errors?[09:59:16] <JonathanThompson> And perhaps he's forgetting one other major difference: you're still a "Starving college student" and he's been working in the field awhile (I have too).[09:59:32] <Thom_Holwerda> well im not starving[09:59:45] <Thom_Holwerda> compared to most other students, im fairly wealthy.[09:59:49] <JonathanThompson> But, you're a not-well-paid college student, right?[09:59:57] <JonathanThompson> "Compared to other students" ....[09:59:59] <Thom_Holwerda> there are few students with an apartment and car[10:00:00] <JonathanThompson> :)[10:00:06] <Thom_Holwerda> JonathanThompson: definitely not :).[10:00:29] * JonathanThompson is confused how to interpret that now..[10:00:49] <Thom_Holwerda> as in, definitely not a well-paid one[10:00:50] <JonathanThompson> But, I strongly suspect you don't even come close to what I earn, even in relative local terms, or what he earns.[10:00:59] <Thom_Holwerda> obviously.[10:01:02] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[10:01:15] <JonathanThompson> And that's to be expected: you have relatively little professional experience *of any type* to earn it.[10:01:27] <JonathanThompson> You couldn't help being born many years later ;)[10:01:28] <Thom_Holwerda> indeed.[10:01:37] <Thom_Holwerda> and i cant even have a full-time job yet.[10:01:49] <JonathanThompson> School rules won't let you?[10:02:11] <Thom_Holwerda> how about school takes up too much time? :)[10:02:30] <JonathanThompson> That doesn't stop a lot of americans from having a full-time job while attending school full-time ;)[10:02:47] <JonathanThompson> Personally, I don't see how people pull it off.[10:02:48] <JonathanThompson> A lot can't.[10:02:59] <Thom_Holwerda> neither do i. it's unhealthy.[10:03:05] <JonathanThompson> I agree.[10:03:39] <JonathanThompson> It becomes that much harder as you get older and your health goes down.[10:04:28] <JonathanThompson> What's the currency exchange for a NZ dollar, anyway?[10:07:25] <ari-linux> trying to make firefox again...[10:07:49] <ari-linux> nope[10:08:01] <ari-linux> this not easy[10:08:48] <JonathanThompson> Just think: this is one of the highest profile projects, so they've likely made it far more sanitized than a lot of available projects for outsiders to build ;)[10:10:38] <Thom_Holwerda> http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2008/04/16/spoof-vista-sp1-video-is-well-see-for-yourself[10:10:53] <Thom_Holwerda> "So what's the lesson here? There is none. Microsoft still likes making fun of itself and people still like making money off of headlines that bash Microsoft. It's just another day on the Internet."[10:10:54] <Thom_Holwerda> lol[10:13:59] <ari-linux> let's see if this works[10:14:31] <ari-linux> hmm[10:15:59] <Technix> The next new hit from Phil Collins, "Just Another Day on the Internet"[10:20:25] <JonathanThompson> Thom_Holwerda: http://www.osnews.com/thread?310037[10:20:45] <Thom_Holwerda> aaargh paragraphs!![10:20:50] <JonathanThompson> :P[10:20:50] <Thom_Holwerda> where did they go? :P[10:21:07] * JonathanThompson blames internet forumware ;)[10:21:31] <JonathanThompson> Even though I know that's a crock of sh!t, I'll blame it because I don't feel like editing :D[10:22:33] <JonathanThompson> If you just think big thoughts, you can justify that as a single paragraph ;)[10:24:35] <JonathanThompson> Done reading it?[10:26:30] <Thom_Holwerda> of course.[10:26:38] <JonathanThompson> And?[10:27:07] <JonathanThompson> (Other than the "Paragraphs!" editorial comment)[10:37:46] *** Roderic has joined #Haiku[10:38:52] *** slaad has joined #haiku[10:49:14] *** SprMa_ has joined #haiku[10:51:53] *** SprMa_ has quit IRC[11:00:58] *** smtms has quit IRC[11:02:44] *** SprMa has quit IRC[11:06:05] <ari-linux> done?[11:06:08] <ari-linux> i did it?[11:09:01] *** Thom_Holwerda has quit IRC[11:10:47] * aroman is almost done converting the nfs fs driver :) and will test and fix tomorrow most likely[11:11:15] <ari-linux> I did it![11:11:35] <ari-linux> haha[11:12:18] <ari-linux> i now have my first linux skills[11:17:14] <JonathanThompson> How long did it take total?[11:17:28] <JonathanThompson> (From start with a clean output directory to successful build)[11:17:31] *** lu_zero has joined #haiku[11:17:48] <JonathanThompson> And, on what hardware? :)[11:18:04] <ari-linux> a while...i didn't time it[11:18:11] * JonathanThompson hates to think how long it'd take on his BeOS machine, even with both processors going[11:18:11] <ari-linux> but it works[11:18:35] <JonathanThompson> It'd be a lot faster on this box, though perhaps I'd need to do the OS X build.[11:19:24] <ari-linux> now let's see firefox 3 beta[11:20:35] <JonathanThompson> Looks like Apple hasn't upgraded the processors on the iMac's since I bought mine.[11:20:37] <JonathanThompson> Interesting.[11:20:50] <JonathanThompson> Oh well.[11:21:41] <JonathanThompson> After using my BeOS box for so long, this seems positively speedy, though I tend to have more running at once which sometimes slows it down a little, and... well, OS X isn't quite as responsive due to eye candy.[11:25:32] *** Zaranthos has quit IRC[11:28:01] *** Roderic has quit IRC[11:30:21] <ari-linux> hmm this build may be even harder[11:31:22] *** Zaranthos has joined #Haiku[11:32:06] *** Zaranthos_1 has joined #Haiku[11:44:51] *** slaad has quit IRC[11:46:22] <ari-linux> ok forget this[11:57:57] <aroman> ugh... I think I'm done for tonight...[11:58:03] <aroman> nfs fs compiles[11:58:09] <aroman> but it's not ready for test yet[11:58:23] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[11:59:25] <aroman> struct stat data is not in yet...[11:59:38] <aroman> but it's late :( and I'm tired... that'll be for tomorrow[11:59:39] <aroman> night all[12:02:52] <CIA-34> mmlr * r24995 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/fat/ (13 files): Just a bit of cleanup, remove trailing whitespace mostly. No functional changes.[12:04:13] <CIA-34> mmlr * r24996 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/fat/dosfs.c: Add support for detecting FAT32 volume labels.[12:06:22] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[12:07:07] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[12:07:58] *** Ingenu_ has joined #Haiku[12:08:31] *** Ingenu_ has quit IRC[12:08:31] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[12:09:20] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[12:10:56] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[12:11:01] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[12:18:45] *** mmadia has quit IRC[12:21:25] *** andybe has joined #haiku[12:32:36] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[12:34:02] *** andybe has quit IRC[12:58:13] *** Megaf_ is now known as _Megaf[13:00:38] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:00:38] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[13:06:51] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[13:07:04] <DHowett> 'morn ^^[13:08:13] <DHowett> aroman: ping[13:10:47] <CIA-34> axeld * r24997 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/Window.cpp:[13:10:47] <CIA-34> * "where" and "be:view_where" are supposed to contain the same value; dunno[13:10:47] <CIA-34> why the latter is then even added, but we do the same thing as BeOS now.[13:10:47] <CIA-34> * This fixes bug #2075.[13:13:59] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[13:14:11] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[13:21:10] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[13:22:27] *** aljen has quit IRC[13:26:51] *** _Megaf has quit IRC[13:29:53] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku[13:34:16] *** TheNerd_ has joined #haiku[13:37:47] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[13:38:22] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[13:38:30] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[13:38:54] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[13:39:02] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[13:39:42] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[13:39:50] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[13:43:11] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[13:43:39] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[13:44:03] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[13:44:16] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[13:44:23] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[13:44:36] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[13:44:45] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[13:44:54] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[13:45:01] *** nibble has joined #haiku[13:45:06] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[13:45:19] *** Megaf_ has joined #Haiku[13:49:01] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku[13:49:06] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[13:49:08] *** TheNerd has quit IRC[13:49:09] *** Megaf__ has joined #Haiku[13:49:16] <Technix> hi rcjsuen[13:51:31] <rcjsuen> Technix: Hi[13:51:44] <Technix> how goes?[13:52:21] *** _Megaf has quit IRC[13:53:24] *** absabs has quit IRC[13:55:07] <CIA-34> axeld * r24998 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/posix/pthread/pthread_cleanup.cpp:[13:55:07] <CIA-34> * If there is no handler, we must not try to remove it from the linked list.[13:55:07] <CIA-34> * This fixes bug #1644 again.[13:57:17] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[14:00:08] *** HeTo has joined #haiku[14:02:13] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku[14:05:22] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC[14:06:01] *** dchis has joined #haiku[14:06:50] *** SprMa has quit IRC[14:13:25] *** tarma has quit IRC[14:18:35] *** Ingenu_ has joined #Haiku[14:24:57] *** TheNerd_ is now known as TheNerd[14:27:41] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[14:32:50] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[14:32:51] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[14:33:57] *** bSON has joined #haiku[14:35:30] *** nutela has joined #haiku[14:35:59] <nutela> Hi all, what is the default yellow tab colour in R5?[14:37:00] <nutela> i've setup kde to use beosish tabs and all, it's a nice testbed for Haiku R2 :-)[14:38:25] *** DHowett has left #haiku[14:39:44] <HeTo> nutela: (255, 206, 0)[14:40:07] <nutela> thanks HeTo, say how come you know so many things? :-)[14:40:27] <HeTo> I just checked that from a screenshot I have :-)[14:40:36] <AlienSoldier> i have 203 here[14:42:15] *** dchis has quit IRC[14:43:42] <HeTo> might be because I'm using 16-bit colours, and I picked that colour from the screen, not straight from the screenshot image itself[14:44:01] <HeTo> the screenshot is 24-bit, though, IIRC[14:45:11] *** nils_t has joined #haiku[14:48:19] <HeTo> how come can there not be a simple "pick this colour and tell me it" in any of the picture viewing or editing apps there are for KDE?[14:48:42] <HeTo> and of course, Krita has just that feature :-)[14:49:25] <HeTo> it seems to really be 203 in the 24-bit screenshot itself[14:50:06] <nutela> ok i'll try[15:08:53] *** waveshaper has quit IRC[15:10:09] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24999 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/benchmarks/libMicro/Jamfile: Patch by Vasilis Kaoutsis: Added mmap/munmap tests.[15:11:04] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[15:16:37] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[15:17:16] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[15:19:01] <SiCuTDeUx> morning[15:20:24] *** plfiorini has quit IRC[15:31:40] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[15:32:36] <nutela> hmm somehow the beos yellow (255, 204, 0) looks ugly on this screen[15:34:12] *** rdmr has quit IRC[15:35:03] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[15:43:28] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[15:44:41] <CIA-34> axeld * r25000 /haiku/trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)[15:44:41] <CIA-34> * Replaced the previous pthread_key implementation with a lockless one[15:44:41] <CIA-34> that does not rely on the Be API TLS anymore, and is also more compliant[15:44:41] <CIA-34> with respect to the lifespan of the key specific values.[15:44:41] <CIA-34> * It supports up to 256 different keys, which is equivalent of the solution[15:44:42] <CIA-34> that FreeBSD offers.[15:44:45] <CIA-34> * The main thread now also gets a pthread_thread structure.[16:04:25] <[Katisu]> hmm..r25000, time to update[16:04:26] *** nutela has quit IRC[16:04:42] <helf> hi[16:09:34] <DeadYak> [Katisu]: do you update every 1k or something? :)[16:09:37] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[16:10:37] <PulkoMandy> every 5k ? :o)[16:11:04] <helf> heh[16:13:32] <helf> Mr. Snail Mail Spammer is back[16:13:44] <DeadYak> who's that?[16:13:51] *** Hugen_ has joined #haiku[16:13:55] <Hugen_> hi all[16:13:58] <AlienSoldier> enlarge your NeXT[16:14:16] <Hugen_> hi Begasus_bbl[16:14:20] <[Katisu]> DeadYak, kind of, use 1k marks as a reminder[16:14:34] <helf> some guy that comes to the computer lab. he prints out a ton of letters to companies advertising his "services" and giving a website address that doesnt even work... and then he mails them all off. ive seen him at the post office dumping 50 letters into the box[16:17:39] <DeadYak> nice lol[16:17:49] <DeadYak> and eep: http://flickr.com/photos/remainingoceansart/299835621/sizes/o/[16:19:26] <AlienSoldier> that shark look as fat as a tuna[16:25:47] *** _Megaf is now known as dsa_FISL[16:25:54] *** dsa_FISL is now known as Megaf[16:26:44] *** Megaf is now known as _Megaf[16:30:15] *** Hugen_ has quit IRC[16:37:59] *** _Megaf is now known as Megaf_[16:41:30] *** begasus_ has joined #haiku[16:41:31] *** pyCube has quit IRC[16:41:37] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[16:46:23] *** bSON has quit IRC[16:48:23] *** aljen has joined #haiku[16:48:26] <aljen> hey[16:53:19] *** mats has joined #haiku[16:54:53] *** Begasus_bbl has quit IRC[16:56:06] *** bSON has joined #haiku[16:56:25] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[16:56:27] <Stargater> Hi[16:59:15] *** bSON has quit IRC[17:00:38] <aljen> stupid question what is diffrent between int somefunc(int a, int b) { ..... } and int somefunc(a, b) int a, b; { ... } ?[17:01:06] <DeadYak> the latter is old-style K&R delcaration[17:01:12] <DeadYak> that's not really used any more[17:01:16] <DeadYak> declaration*[17:01:45] <DeadYak> except in some places in the GNU tools for some reason[17:02:02] <aljen> ah, thanks[17:02:12] <aljen> is there any diffrence in execution of that code ?[17:02:16] <DeadYak> nope[17:02:25] <DeadYak> that was just the original way of declaring function prototypes in C[17:02:33] <aljen> ah :)[17:03:46] <PulkoMandy> makes it easy to copy-paste without needing to remove the types :)[17:06:04] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[17:06:11] *** crash_ has quit IRC[17:11:42] *** nutela has joined #haiku[17:11:56] <nutela> Monni: ![17:12:26] <nutela> old b@st@rd :-)[17:12:51] *** cherry` has quit IRC[17:14:07] *** crash_ has joined #haiku[17:18:19] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[17:21:06] *** tqh has joined #haiku[17:25:20] <Monni> eh...[17:31:14] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[17:32:48] *** Megaf_ is now known as _Megaf[17:34:36] <HeTo> I don't think http://sikosis.com/haiku/HaikuRocks-WalterCon2006.torrent should be served as text/plain[17:34:39] <HeTo> as it is currently[17:35:11] <HeTo> which results in the file opening in KWrite[17:36:01] *** cherry` has joined #haiku[17:36:11] * DeadYak pets cherry`[17:36:29] <helf> hi cherry[17:37:59] *** mats has quit IRC[17:38:47] *** zlominus_ has joined #haiku[17:38:59] <Monni> defaulting to text/plain is bad in any case...[17:40:37] *** zlominus has quit IRC[17:41:49] *** Ingenu_ has quit IRC[17:41:49] *** pyCube has quit IRC[17:42:15] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[17:43:48] <Monni> it's as bad as using translate as default file open mode instead of binary[17:47:20] *** cherrypie has quit IRC[17:47:31] <nutela> Hey Monni sup?[17:47:59] <nutela> long time no see[17:48:32] *** m0ns0on has joined #haiku[17:51:15] <Monni> nutela: well... I've been pretty busy with personal life last 12 months...[17:51:26] <nutela> yeah like what?[17:51:49] <nutela> has it been spring the last 12 months? ;-)[17:52:07] <nutela> well nice to have you back[17:52:24] <nutela> from beshare to irc :-/[17:52:25] <Monni> nutela: well.. got a new gf that I dumped after 10 months...[17:52:27] *** burfi has joined #haiku[17:52:32] <nutela> hehe[17:52:40] <Monni> nutela: BeShare has been too quiet for my taste...[17:52:45] <nutela> yeah[17:52:59] <nutela> too bad huh[17:53:19] <nutela> maybe Haiku will change that. Got another girl, now have 2[17:53:56] <Monni> Haiku might change that if it will get decent driver support...[17:54:03] <nutela> 2 years and the other 2 weeks :-)[17:54:18] <nutela> what is missing?[17:54:35] <Monni> I haven't checked Haiku since it did fit on a single floppy :)[17:54:55] <nutela> haha maybe you should build it[17:55:07] <Monni> I will... when I buy a new laptop...[17:55:23] <nutela> won't it run on the old one?[17:55:37] <Monni> old one is pretty much dead...[17:56:57] <Monni> I currently have 11 desktops, so I'm not keen buying more of them...[17:57:19] <Monni> used to have 21, but few of them I sold and rest did blow up with blue smoke...[17:57:21] <nutela> why not running on one of the desktops?[17:57:36] <Monni> not enough disk space in them ;)[17:58:08] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[17:58:37] *** pyCube has quit IRC[17:58:45] *** _Megaf has quit IRC[17:59:00] <Monni> and I'm on the move most of the time, so using desktop isn't really a good option anymore...[17:59:23] <nutela> ok so you are a gipsy? ;-) LOL[17:59:30] *** nils_t has quit IRC[17:59:33] <nutela> nah really kidding[17:59:39] <nutela> ROFL[18:02:35] <Monni> nutela: I prefer calling myself a journalist ;)[18:03:00] <nutela> ok[18:03:19] *** daste has joined #haiku[18:04:36] <Monni> one of my articles was selected as featured so I'm pretty happy with what I do...[18:04:49] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[18:05:39] <CIA-34> bonefish * r25001 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):[18:05:39] <CIA-34> Added Dump() method. It prints some general info and a list of the[18:05:39] <CIA-34> message fields, no data, though.[18:07:49] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[18:19:20] <CIA-34> bonefish * r25002 /haiku/trunk/ (15 files in 5 dirs):[18:19:20] <CIA-34> * Reorganized the passwd and group support: A dedicated thread in the[18:19:20] <CIA-34> registrar provides access to the DBs via a port message based[18:19:20] <CIA-34> protocol. The functions in libroot just ask the registrar now.[18:19:20] <CIA-34> * Added Linuxish shadow passwd support. No putspent() though -- we'll[18:19:23] <CIA-34> provide private functions.[18:19:47] *** Euver has joined #haiku[18:23:09] <nutela> where will they be featured Monni?[18:23:16] <nutela> gtg in a minute so answer quickly[18:23:42] *** rdmr has quit IRC[18:24:18] *** koki_haiku has joined #haiku[18:24:19] <Monni> nutela: featured article is usually backed up by resident journalist and it has more space allocated in the newspaper[18:24:40] <nutela> ok cool so in a newspaper[18:24:49] <nutela> gtg see you next time Monni[18:24:52] *** nutela has left #haiku[18:27:09] *** AndrevS has joined #haiku[18:31:47] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[18:36:43] *** Megaf has joined #Haiku[18:37:52] *** mmu_laptop has joined #haiku[18:37:53] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_laptop[18:38:45] <helf> heh, i love how the mars rovers are on like day 1500 of what was supposed to noly be a 90 day mission[18:39:34] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku[18:39:36] <ddew|bofh> o/[18:40:01] <helf> yo[18:40:32] <ddew|bofh> i've found my new desktop os of choice :D[18:40:39] <cps1966> yeah they have multiple recepters in solar cells[18:40:40] <ddew|bofh> solaris ftw[18:40:58] <helf> im sorry[18:40:59] <helf> :P[18:41:05] <helf> nextstep FTW[18:41:15] <ddew|bofh> hehe[18:41:15] <helf> which solaris are you running?[18:41:44] <ddew|bofh> atm indiana but i intend to migrate to sxce once zfs booting gets integrated[18:41:56] <helf> oh ok[18:42:17] <helf> no vertial terminals, though[18:42:18] <helf> :([18:42:21] <helf> vertual[18:42:24] <ddew|bofh> i might even stay on indiana when it's released if i can have the sun studio tools on it[18:42:25] <helf> virtual[18:42:26] <helf> gah[18:42:27] <helf> :P[18:42:39] <ddew|bofh> virtual terminals? i haven't used any of those in ages :)[18:42:44] *** luroh has joined #haiku[18:42:53] <helf> ha[18:47:15] <ddew|bofh> my fav bit so far is the insane backwards compatibility[18:47:29] <Monni> goes back to stoneage? ;)[18:47:36] <ddew|bofh> pretty much :)[18:47:44] <ddew|bofh> sunos 2.6 and upwards[18:48:31] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[18:49:30] <Monni> I haven't used SunOS or Solaris since around 1997[18:50:20] <cps1966> yeah he's a caveman anyway[18:51:28] <Monni> me invent wheel, me build server ;)[18:52:01] <ddew|bofh> i can't see what's not to like about it. it's wicked fast, well supported and stable[18:52:08] <Monni> from ad of Windows Neanderthal Technology ;)[18:52:18] <HeTo> Solaris? Fast?[18:52:32] <ddew|bofh> solaris 8 was slow, but we've moved on[18:52:58] *** bparker06 has left #haiku[18:52:59] <HeTo> yeah, changed all the admin apps to use Java so that memory consumption is assured[18:53:02] <Monni> the one I used was 200 MHz SPARC afair...[18:53:09] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[18:53:19] *** Euver has quit IRC[18:53:26] <ddew|bofh> HeTo: i believe you're stuck in the dark ages. things have changed[18:53:35] <helf> solaris 8 is ungodly slow[18:53:36] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[18:53:45] <DeadYak> I was going to say, Solaris 10 was quite snappy on my box last I tried it[18:54:15] <helf> solaris 8 on a dual supersparc 75 machine with 256mb of ram and a 4.3gb scsi drive = omg... its moving backwards[18:54:24] *** Megaf has quit IRC[18:54:48] <helf> ^-- = my SS20[18:54:53] <ddew|bofh> on this pretty bog standard desktop it's flying[18:55:17] <ddew|bofh> only thing non-stndard about the system is the amount of ram but even in it's stock config it'd be fast[18:55:18] <helf> cool[18:55:55] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: ZFS likes RAM. a lot.[18:56:35] *** DHowett has left #haiku[18:56:58] *** nibble has quit IRC[18:57:12] *** nibble has joined #haiku[18:57:14] *** mmu_laptop has quit IRC[18:57:17] <helf> how much is a lot?[18:57:24] <helf> 1gb out of 2gb? :)[18:57:41] <AlienSoldier> for me a lot now is if it take more than 2W[18:58:02] <DeadYak> W?[18:58:05] <helf> words?[18:58:09] <helf> whats that, 16bytes?[18:58:10] <AlienSoldier> Watt[18:58:15] <ddew|bofh> the only notes on high mem usage and zfs i can find are on freebsd or using fuse[18:58:20] <helf> watt != ram amount[18:59:01] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: its algorithms are generally optimized for high amounts of RAM, not saying it won't run without it but it does like to take as much as it can get[18:59:07] <DeadYak> and you'll notice the difference, big time[18:59:12] <AlienSoldier> helf i don't care for ram amount now, i care for batterie time[18:59:35] <DeadYak> AlienSoldier: which has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion we were having :P[18:59:48] <AlienSoldier> exactly[19:00:04] <ddew|bofh> yeah, the kernel's using 2gb so i presume it's taking as much as it needs/can[19:00:08] <DeadYak> hence your comment confusing the hell out of everybody[19:00:11] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: aye[19:00:27] <ddew|bofh> but i don't mind, the zfs features are worth the ram :)[19:00:53] <helf> heh[19:00:55] <AlienSoldier> after all, what have the unit of electrical power having to do with electrical computers :P[19:01:20] <DeadYak> AlienSoldier: what does power usage have to do with discussions of how much RAM something uses?[19:01:29] <AlienSoldier> efficiency[19:01:30] <ddew|bofh> i'm blaming crack[19:01:32] <DeadYak> silly argument[19:02:11] <ddew|bofh> power efficiancy is irrelevant in a discussion about ram usage[19:02:23] <DeadYak> and irrelevant in this context since we're not talking about a laptop here anyways[19:02:32] <ddew|bofh> indeed[19:02:50] <ddew|bofh> a little digging around shows me that 1.9gb is used by zfs[19:02:55] <helf> http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200804/errord/captcha_huh.png[19:03:00] <helf> haha, awesome[19:03:06] <DeadYak> helf: saw that earlier...what the hell were they smoking[19:03:17] <helf> I dunno, but that's awesome[19:03:24] <ddew|bofh> aw man, i love the kind of sysinfo you can easily get hold of in solaris[19:10:59] *** Megaf has joined #Haiku[19:14:23] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku[19:23:26] *** GoF` has joined #haiku[19:24:21] *** GoF` has left #haiku[19:26:56] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[19:27:10] *** mindchld2 has joined #haiku[19:27:26] *** mmu_laptop has joined #haiku[19:27:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_laptop[19:28:04] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[19:28:37] <Lelldorin1> hi all[19:28:50] *** ThomHolwerda has joined #haiku[19:32:08] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[19:34:20] *** helf_ has joined #haiku[19:34:21] *** helf has quit IRC[19:38:43] *** {V} has joined #haiku[19:41:14] *** thorn has quit IRC[19:41:23] *** thorn__ has joined #haiku[19:44:02] *** MindChild has quit IRC[19:46:05] <CIA-34> bonefish * r25003 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs):[19:46:05] <CIA-34> Added experimental public API get_port_message_info_etc(). It is similar[19:46:05] <CIA-34> to port_buffer_size_etc(), but returns the info through a structure,[19:46:05] <CIA-34> which also identifies the sender (uid, gid, team ID) of the message.[19:47:37] *** ari-linux has quit IRC[19:58:03] <CIA-34> bonefish * r25004 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):[19:58:03] <CIA-34> ReceiveFrom() can now return the message_port_info for the received[19:58:03] <CIA-34> message, if desired.[19:58:43] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[19:58:50] * Disreali is back (gone 14:27:47)[19:58:52] <CIA-34> bonefish * r25005 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/registrar/AuthenticationManager.cpp: Allow only root access to the shadow password DB.[19:58:56] * Disreali is away: I'm busy[19:59:54] *** mmu_laptop has quit IRC[19:59:59] <xcasex> ahem. authentication manager?[20:00:22] <mmu_man> here I go svn up again[20:01:13] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku[20:02:44] *** Megaf is now known as Megaf_[20:12:16] *** Dr3w has quit IRC[20:13:07] *** mib_t1q6c2su has joined #haiku[20:18:21] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[20:23:12] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[20:25:46] <Teknomancer> nite[20:25:47] *** Teknomancer has left #haiku[20:33:10] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[20:34:02] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[20:35:57] * aroman adds AddOptionalHaikuImagePackages Development to his UserBuildConfig[20:37:30] <DeadYak> :)[20:38:07] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[20:39:40] <pyCube> wtf? its thursday?![20:39:57] <pyCube> shit.. i totally lost a day[20:40:14] <pyCube> thought it was weds[20:40:36] *** procton_ has quit IRC[20:40:39] <aljen> pyCube: thursday, 17 april 2009 ;P[20:40:40] *** procton has joined #haiku[20:41:02] <pyCube> sweet.. so GW Bush has been arrested by now then eh?[20:45:01] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku[20:45:23] <mmu_man> if only[20:46:31] *** aljen has quit IRC[20:48:01] *** aljen has joined #haiku[20:57:35] <m0ns0on> :-)[20:58:12] *** Wiss has joined #haiku[20:58:14] <DeadYak> pyCube: if it makes you feel any better, this week's kinda felt fast to me too[20:58:53] <DeadYak> yesterday I kept thinking it was tues still[21:04:05] *** El-Al has joined #haiku[21:04:10] *** nibble has quit IRC[21:04:31] *** nibble has joined #haiku[21:06:07] <El-Al> well! after weeks of struggling with ./configure (buildtools) on Ubuntu x64, I finally switched to 32bit Ubuntu to pursue my Haiku obsession :D[21:07:03] <El-Al> still havn't got a bootable system tho' :([21:09:38] *** leszek has joined #haiku[21:10:14] <El-Al> when I do jam haiku-image, how do I make it bootable?[21:10:40] <leszek> hi[21:12:34] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[21:12:53] <helf_> hi leszek[21:12:57] *** helf_ is now known as helf[21:14:12] <m0ns0on> Hey[21:14:20] <m0ns0on> When using ssh on beos I get "General OS error"[21:14:22] <m0ns0on> What does that mean?[21:17:12] <CIA-34> oruizdorantes * r25006 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):[21:19:20] <CIA-34> oruizdorantes * r25007 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/bt_discovery.cpp:[21:21:01] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[21:21:03] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[21:23:18] <mmu_man> plop[21:24:34] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[21:30:44] *** malex has joined #haiku[21:30:49] *** malex has left #haiku[21:31:47] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[21:31:50] <mmu_man> hmm svn ci stuck ?[21:32:44] <urnenfeld> mmu_man: ?[21:33:24] <mmu_man> /boot/home/config/bin/svn ci src/bin/top.c (team 14806) (uid 0) (gid 0)[21:33:25] <mmu_man> 18992 svn sem 1 26 590 piperd(961663)[21:33:35] <mmu_man> hmm yeah pipefs bug I suppose[21:33:52] <urnenfeld> hmm commited some mins ago without problems...[21:34:03] <CIA-34> mmu_man * r25008 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/top.c:[21:34:18] *** agony has joined #haiku[21:34:22] <mmu_man> had to redo it[21:36:01] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[21:36:20] <m0ns0on> I read a lot of places about BONE[21:36:30] <m0ns0on> How do I upgrade BeOS 5 to BONE?[21:36:37] <helf> you download bone[21:36:38] <helf> and install it[21:36:56] <helf> bone 7a i thinkwas the last release[21:36:59] <helf> i have it somewheres[21:37:53] <m0ns0on> ok[21:37:59] <m0ns0on> I can't get ssh working[21:38:03] <m0ns0on> betty gives the same error[21:38:12] <m0ns0on> it can't write, "general OS error"[21:38:19] <m0ns0on> probably posix incompatabilities[21:38:25] <m0ns0on> I heard that bone fixes this?[21:39:49] <dr_evil> bone, even the latest 7a, always crashed for me after a few minutes. and nobody cared :([21:39:51] <mmu_man> m0ns0on if you have net_server make sure you have a version of ssh for net_server[21:40:03] <mmu_man> works fine for me :P[21:40:08] <mmu_man> (BONE)[21:40:28] <DeadYak> mmu_man: that's not 7a though :P[21:40:32] <m0ns0on> I don't have bone[21:40:36] <mmu_man> right ;)[21:40:43] <m0ns0on> and I don't have a license =)[21:40:51] <m0ns0on> Isn't there a way to get ssh working without bone?[21:43:42] <m0ns0on> ah well[21:43:47] <m0ns0on> I will probably work it out[21:44:04] <m0ns0on> is there a plan for the summer of code with google and haiku?[21:44:12] <m0ns0on> something people can look forward to?[21:46:02] <m0ns0on> How stable is BeOS 5.1d0?[21:46:33] <DeadYak> summer of code stuff is still being finalized[21:46:54] <CIA-34> mmu_man * r25009 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/activitymonitor/ (6 files):[21:46:54] <CIA-34> Made ActivityMonitor buildable under BeOS (at least BONE).[21:46:54] <CIA-34> This is only temporary, to help test adding data sources, so the gross #ifdef[21:46:54] <CIA-34> __HAIKU__ are intentional to keep BeOS-only code (without layout support)[21:46:54] <CIA-34> trackable. It is not fully functional but sufficient for testing and will go[21:46:55] <CIA-34> away later.[21:47:21] *** alh84 has joined #haiku[21:49:29] <El-Al> DeadYak: How do I make my haiku install bootable?[21:49:36] <El-Al> :)[21:49:51] <alh84> hi all....i hate to sound newbish but if I just copy over a binary driver file from haiku image to R5 will it work? Or do I have to compile it under R5?[21:49:54] *** duaneb has joined #haiku[21:50:29] <mmu_man> alh84 it might work for some of them, but they likely use incompatible modules or kernel calls[21:50:38] <mmu_man> it was meant to be R5 compatible, not the other way around[21:50:53] <mmu_man> you likely want to build them with TARGET_PLATFORM=r5 jam ...[21:52:06] <alh84> mmu_man that's what I thought...thanks :)[21:53:05] <alh84> while I'm here.....did anyone else beside me have problems with intel hda? both oss and native driver[21:54:26] <koki_haiku> mmu_man, so the activity monitor is not supposed to work in BeOS, right? :P[21:54:39] <mmu_man> alh84 you must remove one of them[21:54:54] <alh84> i did....i only have oss now[21:55:10] <mmu_man> they will certainly colide, neither BeOS or Haiku (yet) support reserving IO, so both drivers will try to initialize the card, and screw up the other driver's work[21:55:56] <mmu_man> koki_haiku it works but layout is broken, only 1 view works (others add over the 1st one), and window resizing doesn't work[21:56:00] <mmu_man> it's really just for testing[21:56:44] <alh84> and I hear faint cracking sound when booting (that also happens on other OSs, I guess when driver is initialising the card)[21:56:52] <alh84> but after that nothing[21:57:17] <koki_haiku> mmu_man, just teasing you :)[21:59:54] <alh84> that's why I want to compile EsounD driver for R5 actually :)[21:59:57] <mmu_man> alh84 you might want to play with the mixer, volume might be set to 0[22:00:13] <mmu_man> also try another output (in media prefs, channel number)[22:00:37] <mmu_man> alh84 ah, not sure it will work for R5 I only tested it in Zeta[22:01:20] <mmu_man> actually it will need the BTextParameter class from Dano[22:01:31] <mmu_man> even though it doesn't uses yet (server IP is hardcoded)[22:01:50] <mmu_man> never finished that, as I now have supported sound thanks to OSS on my laptop (ATI IXP crappy chip)[22:02:07] <mmu_man> I can try fixing it[22:02:44] <CIA-34> mmu_man * r25010 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/activitymonitor/ (DataSource.cpp DataSource.h): Added Teams data source.[22:02:50] <alh84> can it be changed to not require it but still work? i could do it myself (probably :) )[22:05:17] <Stargater> ThomHolwerda around ? i need your help[22:05:29] <ThomHolwerda> Stargater: : shoot[22:05:30] <mmu_man> alh84 yes as it's not yet used[22:05:31] *** EuanK has joined #haiku[22:05:41] <mmu_man> I meant to put the server IP there but it's still hardcoded[22:06:06] <mmu_man> alh84 btw the folder still contains a makefile[22:06:13] <mmu_man> it worked with zeta at least[22:06:42] <alh84> ok...I'll try to do that....once my notebook returns from repair[22:06:50] <mmu_man> actually it checks the BeOS version before adding the TextParameter[22:06:53] <Stargater> ok, ThomHolwerda i code a game = pairs , and when the user have all card found , came a Alert , in the Alert i write the result = "You need 45 Clicks" , so i not sure it is so true?[22:06:54] <mmu_man> so that's not a problem[22:06:59] <mmu_man> BONE might be though[22:07:35] <mmu_man> at least the makefile checks for not-bone and uses net_server lib, so maybe it will work[22:07:36] <alh84> i don't have bone (if it ain't broken, don't fix it :)[22:07:39] <ThomHolwerda> Stargater: eh, er, uhm...[22:07:43] <ThomHolwerda> i dont get it.[22:07:46] <Stargater> uhuh[22:07:53] <mmu_man> # check for net_server vs BONE[22:07:54] <mmu_man> ifeq ($(findstring headers/be/bone,$(BEINCLUDES)),)[22:07:55] <mmu_man> NETLIBS=net[22:07:55] <mmu_man> else[22:07:56] <mmu_man> NETLIBS=socket bind[22:07:57] <mmu_man> endif[22:08:47] <alh84> and what's the jam command to build it? I've never used it, so it's something of a mistery to me[22:08:50] <Stargater> ThomHolwerda = ou required 45 Clicks to succeed[22:09:07] <Stargater> +Y[22:09:12] <ThomHolwerda> yeah i got that far[22:09:15] <Stargater> You required 45 Clicks to succeed[22:09:32] <Stargater> this is better english , i think![22:09:33] <ThomHolwerda> but i dont get the question, or why im the one to answer it :)[22:09:40] *** oco has joined #haiku[22:09:43] <Stargater> mom[22:11:53] *** m0ns0on has quit IRC[22:12:10] *** m0ns0on has joined #haiku[22:12:39] <Stargater> ThomHolwerda = http://tm.kaldience.com/dir/members/stargater/bilder/pairs_shots/pairs_about.png[22:12:46] <Stargater> this pairs[22:13:10] <ThomHolwerda> aaaah i get the nature of the message now[22:13:14] <Stargater> you see what i mean, i need a good english[22:13:22] *** m0ns0on has quit IRC[22:13:35] <Stargater> :-)[22:13:53] <ThomHolwerda> "You used 46 clicks to complete the game."[22:13:55] <ThomHolwerda> or[22:14:16] <DeadYak> "You completed the game in %d clicks." ?[22:14:28] <ThomHolwerda> DeadYak: thanks :)[22:14:42] <DeadYak> np :)[22:15:05] <Stargater> ah cool thanks ThomHolwerda and DeadYak[22:15:25] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[22:15:37] <Stargater> i used this from DeadYak[22:15:39] *** leszek has quit IRC[22:15:44] <ThomHolwerda> wow we're at 98 users[22:15:49] <ThomHolwerda> 97 now[22:15:51] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666[22:17:05] <Stargater> DeadYak the button label are good = "New Game", "Quit Game"[22:17:10] <Stargater> ?[22:17:31] <ThomHolwerda> Stargater: remove the caps from game[22:17:40] <ThomHolwerda> so, "New game" and "Quit game"[22:17:51] <ThomHolwerda> capitalising nouns is a German thing :)[22:18:17] <Stargater> big thanks :-) i love you (virtual)[22:21:26] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[22:24:29] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC[22:30:15] <CIA-34> mmu_man * r25011 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/activitymonitor/ (DataSource.cpp DataSource.h SystemInfo.cpp SystemInfo.h): Add Semaphores and Ports data sources.[22:30:50] <duaneb> mmu_man, what is a semaphore?[22:31:16] <MYOB> one of the flags used to communication between ships at sea before radio :P[22:31:42] <mmu_man> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_%28programming%29[22:32:30] <mmu_man> maybe one might want to have a "newbie" mode that only lists basic stuff[22:33:36] <oco> maybe "something to synchronize threads" could be a start ?[22:34:24] *** va1 has joined #haiku[22:36:28] <mmu_man> damn openning a file in Pe only opens an Untitled empty file[22:37:15] <MYOB> has anyone heard from Rudolf C in the past age?[22:37:47] <mmu_man> not recently[22:38:12] <MYOB> never mind, found what I needed anyway[22:38:20] <EuanK> he fixed a couple bugs recently[22:38:24] <MYOB> well, ish[22:38:32] <MYOB> as its a fecking BFIle attachment and I've got in gmail[22:38:40] <MYOB> think I'll need to email it *to myself* and see what happens[22:38:53] *** smtms has joined #haiku[22:39:03] <MYOB> some source code he got me that shouldn't exist and I might be able to use...[22:39:34] <MYOB> and no its not the BeOS code :P[22:39:54] <MYOB> ATI Rage Mobility driver[22:40:35] <MYOB> would kill for 2D accel or even 1400x1050 on my Dell[22:43:19] *** urnenfeld has left #haiku[22:44:02] <MYOB> downloaded it on BeOS and it doesn't open either[22:44:44] *** crash_ has quit IRC[22:47:11] *** jspiros has quit IRC[22:47:52] *** rdmr has quit IRC[22:51:12] *** crash_ has joined #haiku[22:53:36] *** duaneb has quit IRC[22:57:29] *** Wiss has quit IRC[22:58:20] <ddew|bofh> cock damnit, i suck at writing resumes and applications :)[22:58:58] <ddew|bofh> i keep second guessing myself to the point of absurdity[23:01:32] *** El-Al has quit IRC[23:01:56] <cps1966> inflate it all you can[23:02:29] <MYOB> I can't get this damn eircom/gmail mangled attachment file to work at all[23:02:43] <MYOB> its a zip file and a beos attributes file base64ed in to another file[23:02:46] <MYOB> which has DOS line endings[23:03:03] <DeadYak> cps1966: doesn't tend to work that way outside the US[23:03:27] <MYOB> people actually contact your old employers here[23:03:32] <ddew|bofh> inflating myself would do more harm than good tbh[23:03:46] <cps1966> well just dont lie[23:03:47] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: inflating yourself could hurt indeed :)[23:03:56] <ddew|bofh> hehe[23:04:02] <DeadYak> sorry, had to[23:04:03] <ddew|bofh> being humble is always a good thing[23:04:05] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[23:04:14] <alh84> i would think inflating a CV is a universal constant in unierse[23:04:14] <JBurton> hi[23:04:14] <ddew|bofh> i kinda put myself up for that one ;)[23:04:17] <cps1966> back injury[23:04:29] <alh84> right there with c, pi, e :)[23:04:41] <ddew|bofh> heh[23:04:48] <MYOB> can you speak English? do you work in IT? Theres about 80,000 jobs here they can't fill[23:04:54] <MYOB> admittedly not on great salaries but hey...[23:05:10] <MYOB> the dollars got so incredibly crap of late they probably sound great :P[23:05:12] <EuanK> where's that? Down under?[23:05:18] <alh84> don't they outsource all to india nowadays[23:05:19] <alh84> :)[23:05:24] <cps1966> we get indians for it work[23:05:27] <EuanK> my work does what a pain[23:05:31] <MYOB> Ire;and[23:05:34] <MYOB> Ireland*[23:05:35] <EuanK> oh aye[23:05:38] <EuanK> my bad[23:05:53] <MYOB> I'm 21 and on the equivalent of 52,000 USD before bonuses now[23:06:27] <EuanK> not bad. :)[23:06:44] <MYOB> it is when you convert it back to real money and take in to account the cost of living :P[23:06:51] <alh84> myob get me a job there :)[23:07:00] <MYOB> www.helixhealth.com we're recruciting I think[23:07:09] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[23:07:28] <pyCube> heh[23:07:43] <pyCube> I'd move to ireland if i could[23:08:24] <alh84> I don't know if I could stand the weather[23:08:28] <MYOB> no grannies to dig up for passports?[23:08:38] <alh84> but since it's been crappy pretty much whole year here[23:08:40] <MYOB> alh84 where are you now?[23:08:53] <alh84> it wouldn't be a big change[23:09:01] *** tqh has quit IRC[23:09:02] <alh84> myob.....other end of europe....croatia :)[23:09:14] <pyCube> maybe i can get into some up-and-coming irish digital film studio[23:09:17] <pyCube> hehe[23:09:18] <MYOB> bah, thats FAR colder than here in winter...[23:09:21] <cps1966> 74 F here today[23:09:32] <MYOB> eww fahrenheit[23:09:36] <MYOB> has the 1990s not happened yet?[23:09:46] <alh84> depends what part[23:09:52] <EuanK> 14oC here today! :)[23:09:57] <alh84> you and your god damn ocean :)[23:10:07] <MYOB> about 15C in south Dublin today[23:10:13] <MYOB> just about warm enough to have the window down in the car[23:10:31] <alh84> 10C at noon in Zagreb[23:10:40] <EuanK> brb[23:10:41] <cps1966> what the hell happened to global warming[23:10:42] <pyCube> 26c here[23:10:42] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[23:10:46] *** EuanK has left #haiku[23:11:05] <MYOB> cps1966 Al Gore made it all up :P[23:11:30] <MYOB> unforutnately it scared enough people long enough to get the Greens in to goverment here[23:11:32] <cps1966> yeah[23:11:38] <alh84> :)[23:11:49] <ddew|bofh> amen to that[23:11:56] <cps1966> his extra fat is melting ice caps too[23:12:01] <ddew|bofh> it's made having a car fuck expensive[23:12:07] <alh84> actually I believe it reinforces his theories......instability and all that.....but let's not get started :)[23:12:21] *** jspiros has joined #haiku[23:12:22] <alh84> i have whole other issues with the greens[23:12:28] <MYOB> ddew|bofh you in the US[23:12:43] *** burfi has left #haiku[23:12:44] <MYOB> because if you are - stop whining. Our fuel has *always* been 50+% dearer and still is...[23:12:46] <alh84> ddew use a bike.....or a motorbike if you're lazy :)[23:12:47] <ddew|bofh> is global warming happening? yes are we humans responsible for all of it? hell no[23:13:01] <ddew|bofh> MYOB: i'm Swedish :)[23:13:03] <alh84> it'll get you from A to B much quicker[23:13:11] <MYOB> hah, right, I think yours is more expensive than ours then :P[23:13:17] <ddew|bofh> indeed[23:13:25] <MYOB> we've about the cheapest in the EU[23:13:40] <MYOB> any petrol station near the border is full of yellow-plated cars and people filling jerry cans[23:13:58] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[23:14:05] <alh84> a friend of mine has been in the US recently.....IIRC says the fuel is about at 50% compared to us[23:14:06] <ddew|bofh> the cost of fuel is bareable, it's the added taxes and other crap that hurts[23:14:09] <helf> I want an electric car...[23:14:19] <alh84> MYOB how much is it?[23:14:26] <helf> alh84, its 3.279 a gallon where i am :)[23:14:29] <MYOB> I pay 119c/litre on my fuelcard[23:14:31] <ddew|bofh> the markup on gas here is about 60%[23:14:34] <alh84> translate :D[23:15:05] <ddew|bofh> we pay about 130/140c/litre here[23:15:16] <alh84> I think it's the same in Slovenia.....somewhat more expensive here though[23:15:18] <ddew|bofh> err 130-140c/litre[23:15:20] <MYOB> its about 110p sterling a litre in the UK, about 140c euro[23:15:28] <JBurton> helf: oh yeah, because what do you think they use to produce electricity ?[23:15:46] <MYOB> JBurton he's in the states - nukes ;)[23:15:49] <helf> JBurton, wtf? i said "i want an electric car" so i can pay less to charge it at night[23:15:53] <alh84> but the cost of fuel is what....80% taxes?[23:16:02] <helf> not that i give a shit whats used to give me the electricity[23:16:17] <ddew|bofh> nuclear power is a very good way to get power[23:16:18] <helf> ~100m range is plenty for around town driving[23:16:22] <MYOB> 21% VAT and about another 30c fixed rate excise here, the rest is the distributors + oil[23:16:40] <ddew|bofh> safe and enviromentally friendly if the waste is taken care of properly[23:16:49] <helf> yeah, havent we had this conversation before?[23:16:50] <JBurton> helf: of couse, but with petrol going up, electricity goes up too[23:16:53] <MYOB> I'm quite happy to let the distributor take a few cent hit for the fact I use a groupscheme purchase card :P[23:16:59] <helf> thats right, ddew was going on about it and pycube was going on about how bad it was :P[23:17:08] <ddew|bofh> heh[23:17:09] <alh84> yep.....that's why I hate the greens[23:17:27] <ddew|bofh> i hate the greens because they divert the attention from the important issues[23:17:30] <alh84> they killed the nuclear power.....in the US and Australia[23:17:31] <JBurton> ddew|bofh: define "taken care of properly"[23:17:35] <helf> JBurton, yeah, but its still a lot cheaper to charge up an electric than to pour gas into my vehicle :P[23:17:47] <ddew|bofh> JBurton: kept in safe storage[23:17:51] <helf> alh84, we stuill havel ike 30 nuclear plants here :)[23:18:01] <helf> JBurton, sent into the sun! :)[23:18:03] <JBurton> helf: for now, but be sure that as soon as many people will have electric cars, it won't be like that anymore[23:18:05] <DaaT> begasus_![23:18:11] <helf> JBurton, yeah :/[23:18:21] <alh84> helf....yes....but none was built after the 70s.....a shame really.....because you could do it[23:18:22] <alh84> look at france[23:18:23] <JBurton> ddew|bofh: for thousand years ?[23:18:29] <MYOB> diesel 4eva :P[23:18:32] <helf> JBurton, at that point just buy some big industry grade batterys and keep them charged up using power cells and recharge your EV from them at night :)[23:18:38] <MYOB> says me who's moving to a petrol car...[23:18:51] <helf> why in the world would you move to gasoline, myob?[23:18:54] <ddew|bofh> JBurton: it's encased in rock so barring any earthquakes it'll be safe for eons[23:19:07] <MYOB> because the Rover L Series diesel sucks and I'm getting an MG[23:19:13] <helf> im sorry[23:19:14] <helf> :P[23:19:21] <alh84> helf of course that is if you don't count aircraft carriers and submarines[23:19:26] <JBurton> yeah but certains waste (plutonium, cesium, etc) have a live of ten thousand years[23:19:26] * DaaT is getting a Mazda 2[23:19:29] <MYOB> 115bhp from a 2.0 turbo diesel vs. 160bhp from a 1.4 normally aspirated petrol[23:19:30] <DaaT> in june (I hope)[23:19:32] <alh84> :))))[23:19:40] <JBurton> and usually, storage has a llife of hundred years[23:19:41] <MYOB> helf its a modern MG, none of your rusty British Leyland crap[23:19:47] <helf> MYOB, yeah, and 20-30mpg compared to what, 50-60? :P[23:19:53] <helf> MYOB, ah, im sorry again :P[23:19:54] <MYOB> helf 45 compared to 55...[23:20:01] <helf> oh[23:20:03] <helf> nevermind then :P[23:20:11] <MYOB> our petrol is far higher quality than yours remember...[23:20:17] <MYOB> one of the reasons its more expensive[23:20:18] <alh84> JBurton but same thing that applies to nulear waste applies to waste from any other industry[23:20:22] <helf> icant believe myob, o' defender of the diesel way, is going gasoline[23:20:24] <MYOB> although doesn't justify all of it[23:20:31] <ddew|bofh> JBurton: well here we don't have earthquakes so it's pretty safe for many hundreds if not thousands of years[23:20:32] <helf> MYOB, true[23:20:45] <JBurton> ddew|bofh: and then ? :)[23:20:47] <helf> jeez[23:20:50] <MYOB> helf if the chinkies that now own MG decide to start selling the ZR with a Fiat or Bosch diesel in it I'll buy one[23:20:53] <helf> i can fix the waiste issue[23:20:54] <alh84> I don't think everything can be processed....i may be wrong though, I'm not exactly an expert[23:21:03] <JBurton> it's like: "oh yeah future generations will take care of it" ?[23:21:07] <MYOB> if they continue to use the 1980s, Perkins Prima-derived L Series, not a hope[23:21:15] <ddew|bofh> JBurton: and by that time it's not harmful for life anymore[23:21:23] <alh84> but one would hope that in a hundred years we would have the technology to make it ecenomically feasible to really send it all into the sun :)[23:21:24] <ddew|bofh> *living things[23:21:25] <JBurton> ten thousand years, remember[23:21:26] <helf> JBurton, just plant coconut trees over the waste, the coconuts will asorb the radioactive material and then we can feed it to our horde of giant radioactive gorillas[23:21:32] <JBurton> ahah[23:21:33] <JBurton> yeah[23:21:42] <DaaT> helf :)[23:21:45] <DaaT> glowing gorillas[23:21:55] <pyCube> glowrilla[23:21:56] <DaaT> fluorescent green glowing gorillas!![23:21:59] <alh84> :DDDDD[23:22:03] <helf> (coconuts suck radioactive material from the soil, FYI) ;P[23:22:14] <alh84> Daat you forgot human-eating[23:22:15] <alh84> :D[23:22:23] <DaaT> alh84, minor detail[23:22:29] <helf> human eating AKA solving chinas over population issues[23:22:38] <DaaT> yay[23:22:40] <DaaT> :P[23:22:45] <helf> see, get rid of nuke waste AND excess humans[23:22:48] <helf> man, im so smart[23:22:57] <alh84> :)[23:23:06] <MYOB> remind me never to vote helf in to anything...[23:23:11] <helf> d'oh[23:23:37] <alh84> and in the process make china a continet sized national park :)[23:23:48] <alh84> look what's happening in Chernobyl[23:24:16] <helf> i love how you had one case of human error and machine failure and everyone suddenly goes totalyl apeshit over nuclear power :P[23:24:41] <MYOB> ahem, Windscales[23:24:42] <MYOB> Three Mile Island[23:24:53] <helf> 3 mile island was a software glitch and nothing happened[23:24:59] <JBurton> it's not a problem of "occasional incident". It's a problem of waste. Completely underestimated[23:25:06] <alh84> and you wouldn't if you lived in say, Romania :)[23:25:07] <JBurton> they tell you : nuclear is really cheap[23:25:10] <pyCube> nuclear power doesnt really solve a problem.. it moves it[23:25:11] <helf> well, it is[23:25:12] <helf> :P[23:25:17] <JBurton> helf:[23:25:18] <JBurton> no[23:25:19] <MYOB> we still have lots of deformed people in Louth due to Windscales[23:25:27] <MYOB> well... they CLAIM its due to Windscales[23:25:28] <helf> ok, fine, lets figure out how to use the radioactive heavy water to power little fusion reactors in our cars[23:25:30] <JBurton> because you don't take into account the cost of handling the wastes[23:25:31] <MYOB> and not mass inbreeding[23:25:32] <MYOB> but anyways[23:25:33] <helf> we shall call them Mr Fusions[23:25:41] <helf> heh[23:26:04] <MYOB> I mean, with the exception of The Corrs, all of Dundalk are swampdonkies[23:26:40] <ThomHolwerda> oooh the corrs[23:26:47] <alh84> and when you look at it, The Corrs is an inbred band[23:26:48] <alh84> :D[23:27:00] <ThomHolwerda> take away the guy, and it's like heaven[23:27:01] <helf> they should jsut put little vibration powered generators in the sidewalks in major cities[23:27:04] <helf> human power ftw[23:27:23] <alh84> heh....I just remembered a comedy sketch[23:27:32] <MYOB> ThomHolwerda obviously you never saw it, but there was a "Justice For Jim" campaign here :D[23:27:35] <alh84> i think it's from french & saunders[23:27:40] <helf> i love that show![23:27:42] <MYOB> trying to ensure he wasn't cut out of photos etc[23:27:43] <ThomHolwerda> MYOB: i know of it :)[23:27:44] <alh84> they're spoofing corrs[23:27:44] <helf> *loved[23:27:52] <alh84> and you never see the guy[23:28:01] <ThomHolwerda> i actually own like 5 albums by The Corrs[23:28:08] <alh84> hust his arm, or up to his neck[23:28:10] <MYOB> not one of the bands I'm really bothered with[23:28:10] <ThomHolwerda> i have had my shameful moments in music.[23:28:14] <alh84> always makes me laugh[23:28:21] <MYOB> if its 90s Irish bands I'm going to go for, would be The Cranberries...[23:28:29] <alh84> yeo[23:28:31] <alh84> yep*[23:28:35] <helf> woo[23:28:36] <helf> im off[23:28:37] <helf> later all[23:28:42] <MYOB> helsp if you can understand what they're singing about[23:28:43] <JBurton> btw, ddew|bofh: some elements have a high radioactivity for one hundred thousand years, not just ten thousand years, like I thought[23:28:55] <JBurton> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reprocessing[23:28:56] <alh84> i'll never regret not going to their concert here.....and all my friends did.....i was not much into music in my younger days :)[23:29:06] <ThomHolwerda> MYOB: oh yes[23:29:13] <helf> we could just nuke the mid east and use it as a toxic waste dump[23:29:16] <ThomHolwerda> The Cranberries are really good[23:29:16] * helf runs away[23:29:17] <JBurton> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fuel_cycle[23:29:19] <MYOB> the economic stuff, the northern ireland stuff, etc[23:29:25] <ddew|bofh> JBurton: well active doesn't mean harmful[23:29:33] <ThomHolwerda> i listen to No Need Argue quite often[23:29:41] <ThomHolwerda> No Need To Argue*[23:29:46] <alh84> i hope you don't sit down on your rock concerts[23:30:08] <pyCube> the cranberries remind me of some czech chicks i met in the mid 90's[23:30:14] <MYOB> ThomHolwerda and do you understand what Zombie is about? :P[23:30:19] <DaaT> ThomHolwerda, they were[23:30:29] <ThomHolwerda> MYOB: of couse i do[23:30:39] <ThomHolwerda> DaaT: good point[23:30:49] <MYOB> not that many people know the specific incident (Warrington bombings)[23:30:49] <ThomHolwerda> i didnt like Dolores' solo work[23:30:54] <DaaT> linger, ode, awesome songs[23:31:01] <alh84> a friend of mine was at their concert in Vienna and was asked quite a few times to please sit down[23:31:02] <alh84> :)[23:31:03] <MYOB> and not many can get the oveall theme (nobody here gives a flying fuck about northern Ireland anymore)[23:31:06] <ThomHolwerda> Daffodil Lament and No Need To Argue[23:31:13] <ThomHolwerda> played right after one another, as on the album[23:31:17] <ThomHolwerda> goosebumps.[23:31:26] <ddew|bofh> metal ftw :)[23:31:34] <DaaT> ddew|bofh.. ewwww[23:31:35] <DaaT> :)[23:31:38] <ddew|bofh> hehe[23:31:39] <ThomHolwerda> ey wai[23:31:40] <ThomHolwerda> t[23:31:44] * ThomHolwerda cheers![23:31:52] <DaaT> good boy[23:32:03] <ThomHolwerda> brb[23:32:41] <MYOB> that reminds me, have my first gig tickets booked for the summer[23:32:43] <MYOB> Linkin Park and Muse[23:32:59] <DaaT> muse is good[23:33:07] <JBurton> ddew|bofh: "However the level of transuranic elements, including plutonium-239, remains high for over 100,000 years, so if not reused as nuclear fuel, then those elements need secure disposal because of nuclear proliferation reasons as well as radiation hazard."[23:33:16] <MYOB> Linkin Park = I'm going to need to dig up some of my angry teenager clothes again[23:33:21] <DaaT> MYOB, already been to about 3 concerts... one more monday, then two more later on, for now[23:33:31] <MYOB> although I did manage to find a pair of excessively baggy jeans in Northern Ireland last weekend for ?20[23:33:47] <ddew|bofh> JBurton: secure disposal, that's what we have here.[23:33:48] *** Megaf_ is now known as _Megaf[23:33:53] <JBurton> 100.000 years[23:33:54] <MYOB> DaaT I've been to loads of dance gigs so far this year, including seeing about half the DJMag top ten so far ;)[23:34:07] <JBurton> but well if you don't want to hear[23:34:10] <JBurton> fine :)[23:34:25] <DaaT> MYOB, i don't consider dance gigs, concerts[23:34:26] <DaaT> :P[23:34:26] *** EuanK has joined #haiku[23:34:27] <ddew|bofh> unless you'd call packing it into granite far down in the groung "unsafe"[23:34:31] <ddew|bofh> *ground[23:34:51] <DaaT> and Beirut canceled their tour... *shakes fist angrily*[23:34:52] <alh84> yup.....even piramids won't stand 100 000 years[23:34:55] <ddew|bofh> here in .se i'd call that safe seeing how we don't have any seismic activity[23:34:58] <DaaT> after I'd bought the tickets[23:34:59] <alh84> unless they're already built around 100 000 BC[23:35:00] <alh84> :)[23:35:01] <MYOB> DaaT *slap*[23:35:07] <DaaT> :P[23:35:25] <JBurton> do pyramids have radioactive stuff inside ?[23:35:47] <JBurton> :)[23:35:49] <alh84> there are some people that think they do :D[23:36:17] <alh84> the same people that heal you over the phone on tv shows :D[23:36:30] <alh84> on crappy local tv channels at 4am[23:36:31] <alh84> :D[23:36:39] <ddew|bofh> hehe[23:37:19] <ddew|bofh> JBurton: but don't you worry, we've replaced almost all of the nuclear power with wind-generated and water power.[23:37:24] <alh84> any of you kids heard of Gang of Four? :)[23:37:50] <JBurton> the four horsemen ?[23:38:00] <alh84> the band[23:38:00] <alh84> :)[23:38:01] <JBurton> :)[23:38:02] <DaaT> post-punk band?[23:38:20] <alh84> yep[23:38:23] <JBurton> thought you were talking about apocalypse :)[23:38:25] <DaaT> weren't they from leeds?[23:38:40] *** vbmithr has joined #haiku[23:39:03] <pyCube> lately i have been into crazy bands like Gong, Gentle Giant, Soft Machine, etc[23:39:08] <alh84> don't know......don't care.....as long as they're gonna do a gig here.....and they are[23:39:09] <alh84> :)[23:39:30] * DaaT pets wikipedia[23:39:31] <DaaT> :D[23:39:35] <pyCube> a lot of it i dont care for.. but its so interesting[23:40:55] <MYOB> alh84 at least Croatia isn't like 90s Ireland when no band smaller than one that'd get less than 2% of the population at a gig would play here then...[23:41:34] <MYOB> because you're damn similar in every other way (economically, socially, etc) :P[23:41:51] <alh84> :)[23:41:51] <DaaT> MYOB, is it me or that sentence made absolutely no sense?[23:42:18] <MYOB> DaaT made sense to me[23:42:19] <alh84> DaaT I'm still fighting with it too :)[23:42:26] <MYOB> once upon a time fuck all artists played Dublin[23:42:27] <DaaT> alh84, thanks :P[23:42:34] <MYOB> if they did they played Croke Park (which holds about 2% of the country[23:42:55] <DaaT> in terms of mass or population?[23:42:56] <DaaT> :D[23:43:54] <MYOB> population[23:43:57] <alh84> myob we even have our own Northern Ireland.....and we hate them too :)[23:44:18] <MYOB> so you'd get bruce springsteen, bon jovi, and thats about it...[23:44:54] <DaaT> we didn't get many gigs as well, till the late 90s[23:45:04] <alh84> and no clubs?[23:45:22] <MYOB> not really until the later 90s[23:45:25] <alh84> we didn't get household names too....till two-three years back[23:45:31] <MYOB> DaaT of course you were in a very similar financial boat to us too[23:45:34] <DaaT> mid to late 90s, sorry[23:45:38] <DaaT> MYOB *nod*[23:45:48] <alh84> but Pixies for example where here...playing in a club that can hold 1000[23:45:52] <DaaT> pink floyd did sell out a stadium, 2 nights straight[23:45:55] <DaaT> only band to do that so far[23:46:02] <alh84> maybe not even that much[23:46:04] <alh84> back in 87[23:46:14] <pyCube> mm.. pixies[23:46:24] <alh84> DaaT where are you from?[23:46:27] <DaaT> Portugal[23:46:34] <MYOB> U2 sold out Croke Park 3 nights in a row a while back here[23:46:46] <pyCube> fuck U2[23:46:56] <pyCube> hehe[23:47:09] <pyCube> tough to get more irritating, on so many levels[23:47:35] *** HeTo has quit IRC[23:47:40] <DaaT> i've stopped paying attention to them, music wise, long ago[23:47:58] <MYOB> I listen to the 80s stuff, and the early 90s they now pretend never happened[23:48:05] <DaaT> like REM[23:48:10] <MYOB> their video compilation ignores Numb, Discotheque, etc[23:48:17] <DaaT> after new adventures in hifi... forget about it[23:48:27] <alh84> you can't pretend that early 90s never happened[23:48:37] <pyCube> i can[23:48:42] <MYOB> lots of artists do[23:49:01] <alh84> German dance is something that will be remembered as the finest comedy ever produced[23:49:02] <MYOB> Paul van Dyk never goes further back than 1995 in his sets now, just as well as the early stuff was cack...[23:49:02] <alh84> :D[23:49:07] *** Euver has joined #haiku[23:49:56] <MYOB> and I'm rather glad I get to hear For An Angel onwards and not, erm. "Pumpin' This Party"...[23:49:57] *** va1 has left #haiku[23:50:21] <Stargater> reboot[23:50:25] *** Stargater has quit IRC[23:50:47] <alh84> i really don't know what people where thinking then :)[23:51:01] <MYOB> this reminds me, you lot seen our Eurovision entry yet? :D[23:51:54] <alh84> there someone in Europe who actually watches Eurosong contest? :D[23:51:57] <DaaT> not even ours[23:52:05] <DaaT> that thing still alive?[23:52:06] <MYOB> we're entering a glove puppet[23:52:11] <oco> me :-)[23:52:14] <alh84> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[23:52:17] <alh84> this made my day[23:52:18] <alh84> :D[23:52:33] <MYOB> a foul mouthed turkey puppet[23:52:33] <DaaT> nice[23:52:38] <MYOB> singing a pisstake of eurodance[23:52:47] <alh84> actually Ireland won it three times in a row recently I think :)[23:52:58] <DaaT> something like conan's dog puppet?[23:52:59] <MYOB> bear in mind we've won it more times than anyone else, so doing this is fairly heavy...[23:53:03] <alh84> i remember one time being at a party so bad[23:53:10] <MYOB> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnsPfRdSU0Q[23:53:15] <alh84> that me and my friends watched[23:53:20] <alh84> Eurosong the whole time there[23:53:20] <alh84> :D[23:53:48] *** vbmithr has quit IRC[23:53:52] <MYOB> its basically a protest entry[23:53:59] <DaaT> errr... ok...[23:54:12] <DaaT> they think "if finland won with THAT band..."[23:54:13] <DaaT> :P[23:54:28] <MYOB> nope, this was selected by public vote from a load of contenders which included real acts[23:55:06] <alh84> MYOB beware....that may be the last straw and Serbia declares war on you....after loosing Kosovo and everything :)[23:56:03] <MYOB> for what, insulting the only contest they'd any chance of winning? :P[23:56:28] <Kokito> LugRadio report now online: http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/koki/2008-04-16/a_weekend_in_sf_for_lugradio_live_usa_2008[23:56:35] <alh84> protest against what? :)[23:57:04] <alh84> myob sth like that yes :)[23:57:24] <MYOB> the eurovision having lost all modicum of respectability and turning in to a Baltic vs. Balkans bloc-vote[23:57:29] <DaaT> ah[23:57:34] <MYOB> I thought you were all meant to hate each other so why do you vote for each other?[23:57:41] <alh84> you noticed that too :)[23:57:54] <DaaT> MYOB, it has always been a "party" of interests[23:58:02] <alh84> I can't explain it either[23:58:04] <DaaT> portugal and spain help each other, etc etc etc[23:58:12] <alh84> except stupidity[23:58:14] <alh84> and bad taste[23:58:40] <oco> and nobody vote for France...[23:58:46] <MYOB> DaaT was never as bad till the ex-communist coiuntries came in[23:58:59] <DaaT> damn commies... grrr[23:59:04] <DaaT> oco, well, it's France[23:59:05] <DaaT> :)[23:59:14] <oco> except Andorra...[23:59:14] <alh84> probably most of the people that war most _vocal_ during the war, are those who now vote for our beloved eastern neighbour[23:59:47] <MYOB> does Andorra have a TV station even?