Switch to DuckDuckGo Search
   April 16, 2008  
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | >

Toggle Join/Part | bottom
[00:00:47] <stpere> hi

[00:00:55] <HeTo> uploaded a video of the slowdown: http://koti.mbnet.fi/hetonnet/misc/Haiku_crawling.3gp

[00:01:05] <stpere> moving out is a shitty process :-\

[00:01:09] *** Atomozero has quit IRC

[00:01:27] <HeTo> shot with my crappy mobile phone camera so I'm not sure if it's of any use, though

[00:07:31] *** mmu_man has quit IRC

[00:07:43] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku

[00:07:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man

[00:09:20] <HeTo> you can see, though, how the mouse pointer first moves smoothly but then suddenly becomes erratic around the same time the terminal appears on the screen

[00:12:33] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[00:13:12] <HeTo> it might be this, although the laptop doesn't have any firewire ports: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1667

[00:19:27] *** nanoid is now known as TheNerd

[00:20:58] *** _Megaf has quit IRC

[00:21:04] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[00:21:17] *** petterhj has joined #haiku

[00:24:15] <{V}> HeTo, not that I can solve your problem, but have you run 'top' like Konrad has for ticket 1667?

[00:26:35] <CIA-34> oruizdorantes * r24976 /haiku/trunk/headers/os/bluetooth/ (4 files):

[00:28:16] <HeTo> just ran it

[00:28:44] <HeTo> didn't see fw_probe on the list, but kernel_team did hold place #1 in cpu usage

[00:31:25] *** rdmr has joined #haiku

[00:31:57] <CIA-34> oruizdorantes * r24977 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/bluetooth/ (DiscoveryAgent.cpp DiscoveryListener.cpp LocalDevice.cpp):

[00:32:20] *** Hugen_ has quit IRC

[00:33:44] <HeTo> it seems fxp intr handler is the culprit here

[00:34:21] <HeTo> so has to do with the network adapter

[00:36:07] <{V}> perhaps you can double check by moving the network drivers away from their regular location?

[00:36:08] *** Odium has joined #haiku

[00:37:16] *** mmadia has joined #haiku

[00:37:32] *** Wiss_ has quit IRC

[00:38:22] *** {V} has quit IRC

[00:38:30] *** {V} has joined #haiku

[00:38:39] *** Stargater has quit IRC

[00:38:58] *** rdmr has quit IRC

[00:39:06] <HeTo> does safe mode initialize networking?

[00:40:30] *** TheNerd_ has joined #haiku

[00:40:37] <mmadia> holy crap,  a bebits talkback comment from the loon

[00:41:00] <HeTo> it seems it doesn't

[00:42:20] *** TheNerd has quit IRC

[00:42:24] *** TheNerd_ is now known as TheNerd

[00:43:47] <{V}> mmadia, has that been a long time?

[00:44:12] <mmadia> yea, i dont remember the last loon siting , {

[00:44:16] <mmadia> V}

[00:46:42] <{V}> I'll take a wild guess: around the time Yellowtab & access had their spat

[00:48:14] <{V}> which would be... oh only a year ago?

[00:48:36] <HeTo> it seems to really have been the ipro100 driver

[00:48:47] <mmadia> about,  things before yesterday tend to get a little fuzzy from time to time  ; )

[00:49:09] <CIA-34> oruizdorantes * r24978 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/bt_discovery.cpp:

[00:49:09] <CIA-34> The stack is already discovering devices, this is the small tool I used to test.

[00:49:09] <CIA-34> The stack calls for the moment hooks at starting and finishing and discovering

[00:49:09] <CIA-34> each BT deviceNeeds still some polishing as some devices reply multiple times,

[00:49:09] <CIA-34> and they should be filtered. And its nice to know the name after discovering not

[00:49:11] <CIA-34> only the address.

[00:49:14] <HeTo> even in the Haiku world it helps to know enough FreeBSD to know that fxp == Intel integrated ethernet, it seems :-)

[00:50:37] <HeTo> but now Haiku seems to work like charm, as I removed /system/add-ons/kernel/drivers/dev/ipro100 and moved /system/add-ons/kernel/drivers/bin/ipro100 to home dir

[00:50:41] <{V}> that's why the spaghetti  monster created irc logs :)

[00:51:10] <{V}> HeTo, congratulations :)

[00:52:27] <HeTo> but now it's time to get some sleep, tomorrow I'll see whether there is already a bug for this

[00:52:37] *** HeTo has quit IRC

[00:53:52] *** goosemo has joined #haiku

[00:54:44] *** urnenfeld has quit IRC

[00:59:50] *** irc has joined #haiku

[01:00:33] *** _Megaf is now known as Megaf_

[01:01:18] *** irc has left #haiku

[01:09:37] <{V}> g'dnight

[01:09:39] *** {V} is now known as {Vzzz}

[01:18:37] <mmu_man> The Great Moore's Law Compensator ... lol

[01:21:18] <AlienSoldier> as if that was not engineered from the start

[01:22:13] <AlienSoldier> one of the biggerst consumer screwing ploy ever

[01:24:44] *** Master199 has joined #haiku

[01:27:59] *** oco has quit IRC

[01:28:48] <mmu_man> http://osnews.com/thread?309774

[01:30:03] <aroman> mmu_man: nice comment ;)

[01:33:52] *** Gareth is now known as Morph

[01:34:51] *** Morph is now known as Gareth

[01:37:53] <AlienSoldier> even the microsoft tatto guy is bloated

[01:38:20] <AlienSoldier> ... even if i think he is paid by apple

[01:49:04] <mmadia> aside from SoundPlay and MDR, what are some programs that could be affected by the 32mb add-on limit issue in R5 ?

[01:50:54] <AlienSoldier> tracker i guess

[01:51:21] <CIA-34> bga * r24979 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):

[01:51:21] <CIA-34> modified.

[01:53:28] <AlienSoldier> mmadia another thing that might be is the terminal, before i removed some ram in this pc all worked fine exept at some point in time i was no longuer able to open new terminal (can't open new pty)

[01:54:04] <mmu_man> mmadia firefox ?

[01:54:24] <mmadia> mmu_man that's the program in question : )

[01:54:39] <mmadia> aah, i never knew that about Terminal,  thanks AlienSoldier

[01:55:53] <AlienSoldier> i don't know if it use add-on per se but it sure seem to have relation with it, perhaps an internal hack

[01:56:45] <mmu_man> any app using the translation kit

[01:57:04] <mmu_man> Tracker usually loads add-ons only when called OTH

[01:59:34] <mmadia> so, installing a boatload of Tracker add-ons wouldn't affect general mem usage?

[02:00:38] <mmu_man> yes

[02:00:45] *** Odium has quit IRC

[02:00:48] <mmu_man> listimage Tracker only gives translators and libs

[02:02:29] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC

[02:07:00] *** petterhj has quit IRC

[02:19:30] *** goosemo has quit IRC

[02:22:21] *** mmadia has quit IRC

[02:22:25] *** mmadia has joined #haiku

[02:24:59] *** tradewind has quit IRC

[02:33:56] *** PoissonPilote has joined #haiku

[02:35:42] *** evdubs has joined #haiku

[02:37:28] *** evdubs has left #haiku

[02:37:43] *** evdubs has joined #haiku

[02:38:36] *** evdubs has left #haiku

[02:39:17] *** evdubs has joined #haiku

[02:42:40] *** dchis has quit IRC

[02:54:18] *** umccullough_work has joined #haiku

[02:54:34] *** Odium has joined #haiku

[02:58:38] *** evdubs has quit IRC

[03:06:08] <umccullough_work> the distro thing has been reduced to uninformed squabbling :(

[03:06:15] <geist> yeah

[03:06:20] <umccullough_work> lame

[03:06:21] <geist> mailing lists tend to do that

[03:06:35] <pyCube> bicker!

[03:06:39] <geist> if the thread is more than about 10 messages I just mark as read

[03:06:42] <pyCube> moan!

[03:06:54] <geist> since content tends to drop towards nothing as more messages are added

[03:07:16] <umccullough_work> rehash and rebuttal

[03:07:22] <umccullough_work> rinse, repeat

[03:07:27] <geist> thus far no Godwin's law has been enacted though

[03:07:51] <umccullough_work> what's that? calling people hitler?

[03:07:57] <umccullough_work> heh, yep!

[03:07:58] <geist> yeah

[03:08:02] <umccullough_work> nice

[03:08:21] <geist> the hugeass enum of all possible processors seems like a bad idea too

[03:08:28] <geist> worked nicely back when there was just a handful

[03:08:39] <geist> another area of original be api that didn't age well

[03:09:11] <geist> it's exactly that sort of coding that got beos into the problems that made it need to be patched to run on newer cpus

[03:09:41] <umccullough_work> well, that's just for pulse and cpuinfo currently right?

[03:09:46] <umccullough_work> or does it actually use it for something else?

[03:09:58] <geist> who knows, it's part of the api that there will be an enum, thus anyone can use it

[03:10:06] <umccullough_work> oh

[03:10:11] <geist> probably a lot of the millions of shareware and 3rd party beos apps out there

[03:10:26] <umccullough_work> "if processor = MY_FAVORITE_PROCESSOR, work properly, else fail"

[03:10:38] <geist> i'm sure it'll break photoshop and office will fail too

[03:10:43] <geist> and acrobat reader

[03:11:16] <umccullough_work> that would be a major bummer - can't let that happen

[03:11:27] <geist> yeah, adobe will be on our ass

[03:11:44] <geist> and punish us by only shipping 32bit versions

[03:11:46] <umccullough_work> damn, crying monopoly as we release our own flash and acrobat clones

[03:12:09] <geist> thankfully it wont impact our big iron installation sites

[03:12:14] <geist> they dont care about that kind of thing

[03:12:24] <umccullough_work> my house?

[03:12:26] <umccullough_work> oh...

[03:13:03] <umccullough_work> you mean the sex offender registry

[03:13:31] <umccullough_work> in OK

[03:13:41] <umccullough_work> i laughed for a good 15 minutes this morning

[03:13:56] <geist> http://youtube.com/watch?v=NmpAx8Z5z40

[03:13:59] <geist> speaking of

[03:15:19] <umccullough_work> creepy

[03:15:27] <PoissonPilote> umccullough_work > the guys who wrote the app for the sex offender registry probably didn't read this http://xkcd.com/327/ :D

[03:15:30] <geist> the night rider one is pretty odd too

[03:15:33] <geist> http://youtube.com/watch?v=pqD1KAQYey8&feature=related

[03:15:54] <umccullough_work> PoissonPilote, seen it :)

[03:16:48] <umccullough_work> geist, i want a wagon like that!

[03:16:57] <umccullough_work> that's hot shit

[03:17:04] <geist> this is the same guy that does lasgnacat

[03:17:36] <cps1966> you mean garfield

[03:18:30] *** mmu_man has quit IRC

[03:18:43] *** mmadia has quit IRC

[03:18:44] <umccullough_work> no, he clearly meant lasagna cat

[03:18:48] <umccullough_work> http://www.youtube.com/lasagnacat

[03:18:53] <geist> right

[03:19:17] <geist> any of the riffs on garfield are inheirently funny

[03:19:23] <geist> considering the source material is so unfunny

[03:19:37] <cps1966> that is garfield

[03:19:53] <umccullough_work> dude, that's *not* garfield

[03:20:05] <PoissonPilote> garfield actually is funny, once you take garfield out that is http://garfieldminusgarfield.tumblr.com/

[03:20:19] <geist> yeah, there's another one or two that randomly rearranges em

[03:20:22] <geist> or removes the last panel

[03:21:04] <umccullough_work> my wife sold this recently: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330220134431

[03:21:19] <umccullough_work> not a bad return on something we got for like $20 :)

[03:21:20] <geist> wow

[03:21:34] <PoissonPilote> Who would want to have that in their living room ?

[03:21:45] <geist> yeah, here's another weird ass one: http://youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

[03:21:48] <umccullough_work> that guy...he emailed us like 20 times asking if we'd end the auction early

[03:22:18] <PoissonPilote> the guy's probably Jim Davis

[03:22:21] <PoissonPilote> I mean, who else

[03:22:57] <umccullough_work> to top it off - he didn't pay us for like a week

[03:23:02] <umccullough_work> said he didn't have the money

[03:23:14] <geist> he was busy having sex with it

[03:23:34] <umccullough_work> no, that was BEFORE we sent it

[03:23:44] <geist> ah, probably whacking off to the picture

[03:23:52] <umccullough_work> perhaps

[03:23:57] <PoissonPilote> Well if that sufficed he wouldn't need to buy it

[03:24:19] <pyCube> garfield is hilarious..... relative to family circus

[03:24:26] <umccullough_work> yeah, true

[03:24:50] <umccullough_work> I tend to like Lio :)

[03:26:08] <geist> i like it when the dead grandparents fuck around with the kids

[03:26:16] <geist> those pesky dead grandparents

[03:27:52] <umccullough_work> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ2q9NmYf6g

[03:28:41] <geist> heh that's a good one

[03:28:44] <PoissonPilote> God

[03:29:11] <PoissonPilote> this garfield cosplayer actually is creepy

[03:29:33] <geist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wFnNB6ra3o is my fave

[03:30:57] <umccullough_work> heh

[03:31:13] <umccullough_work> i ate it

[03:31:19] <umccullough_work> that's awesome

[03:32:05] <umccullough_work> yeah...so jim davis is still alive right?

[03:32:25] <geist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UdvyPPvDwQ is a pretty good one too

[03:32:26] <pyCube> hehe

[03:33:05] <umccullough_work> wow... that was an actual strip?

[03:33:10] <umccullough_work> that's nearly hard to believe

[03:33:17] <geist> which one?

[03:33:27] <umccullough_work> the one you just posted

[03:34:04] <umccullough_work> granted... 1979 and all

[03:34:27] <PoissonPilote> it's the Comic Writers Guild that should have gone on strike

[03:35:51] <geist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yELOiYgR2aI&feature=related

[03:36:44] <geist> oh that one is mean

[03:39:19] *** Megaf_ is now known as _Megaf

[03:40:02] <umccullough_work> damn, jim dishes massive damage

[03:40:44] <umccullough_work> love the phoenix down lasagna action

[03:41:17] <pyCube> La SagKnee

[03:41:18] <umccullough_work> steal life

[03:42:44] <ablyss> hmm http://www.misternicehands.com/

[03:42:48] <umccullough_work> lol, oh, that is mean

[03:42:54] <umccullough_work> i wasn't paying attention to the end

[03:42:55] <pyCube> man.. i am getting really into weirdo progressive, jazz-rock fusiony kinda music from the 70's

[03:44:32] *** koki_haiku has quit IRC

[03:46:17] *** _Megaf has quit IRC

[03:46:31] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[03:51:50] *** pyCube has quit IRC

[04:20:16] *** inseculous has quit IRC

[04:24:41] <geist> yeah the skill thing at the end is pretty harsh

[04:25:48] *** goosemo has joined #haiku

[04:27:36] * [Katisu] remembers that the comic strip Garfield will be 30 years in June

[04:28:40] <geist> yeah, 1978

[04:28:58] <[Katisu]> used to have the books, gave up after like 16

[04:31:26] <geist> same. every kid goes through some phase where garfield is the funniest shit evar

[04:31:33] <[Katisu]> hhmmm... looks like they are up to 45

[04:31:34] <geist> eventually you grow out of it

[04:32:47] <[Katisu]> well, the comic started to look the same after awhile

[04:33:01] <[Katisu]> garfield kicks odie off the table, garfield eats all the lasagna

[04:34:41] <cps1966> i had some garfield stuff

[04:34:46] *** koki_haiku has joined #haiku

[04:35:20] <cps1966> still got a few things left

[04:36:43] <[Katisu]> I have a glass "penny" bank, I think that's about it, rest I gave to my niece

[04:38:03] <cps1966> i have a candle about 6 inches tall and a stuffed thing about the same hieght the rest is in storage

[04:38:56] <geist> hmm, you know i think i had a garfield candle at some point too

[04:40:09] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC

[04:41:05] <cps1966> almost had to light it a couple times now when power failed

[04:42:11] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku

[04:45:39] <umccullough_work> does it mean something special when the girl at chipotle puts extra carnitas on my burrito?

[04:46:40] <cps1966> what??

[04:47:45] *** absabs has joined #haiku

[04:49:23] <umccullough_work> i didn't think my question was that incomprehensible :P

[04:51:13] <Technix> Maybe she has the hots for you?

[04:51:26] <geist> that means she wants to warm up your poopchute

[04:51:57] <geist> oh its pork

[04:52:07] <umccullough_work> heh

[04:52:09] <geist> well, she wants to jump you, yeah

[04:52:14] <umccullough_work> well, she was hispanic

[04:52:20] <umccullough_work> ;)

[04:52:24] <umccullough_work> caliente eh?

[04:52:31] *** _Megaf is now known as Megaf_

[04:52:53] <umccullough_work> honestly, i think she was just adding more cuz the girl who put it on initially was pretty stingy :P

[04:53:02] <[Katisu]> ride him like a pig?

[04:53:08] <umccullough_work> i wish the soda machine here took credit cards

[04:53:22] <umccullough_work> goddamn $2.50/can

[04:53:43] <[Katisu]> fuel surcharge

[04:53:48] *** DeadYak has quit IRC

[04:53:53] <umccullough_work> perhaps

[04:54:10] <[Katisu]> taxes

[04:54:12] <umccullough_work> my wife was complaining that beer is expensive now and she doesn't want to buy me any more

[04:54:19] <umccullough_work> probably same reason

[04:54:39] <[Katisu]> shortage of hops

[04:55:04] <cps1966> 13.99 a 12 pack here

[04:55:11] <[Katisu]> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16245024

[04:55:12] <umccullough_work> i think the people who own this building are just assholes and want to charge a shitload for soda personally

[04:55:26] <cps1966> i remember when the same beer was .79

[04:55:43] <umccullough_work> [Katisu], that just depressed the fuck out of me

[04:55:46] <umccullough_work> thanks...

[04:56:09] <umccullough_work> Nov. 13, 2007?

[04:56:14] <[Katisu]> better have a beer

[04:56:28] <[Katisu]> err..nevermind

[04:56:44] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku

[04:56:49] <umccullough_work> wb DeadYak

[04:57:02] <[Katisu]> "more pricy in coming months"

[04:57:13] <umccullough_work> [Katisu], yeah, guess they weren't kidding :P

[04:57:34] <umccullough_work> goddamn, the lady with the laughing client-base in the office behind me is still here

[04:57:41] <DeadYak> thanks

[04:57:42] <umccullough_work> i think she's a therapist

[05:01:51] * ari-free back

[05:08:14] <umccullough_work> i don't know why... but i love sql

[05:10:23] <ari-free> oh umc...

[05:10:36] <ari-free> did you figure out the pkgsrc for coverity?

[05:10:41] *** __ToddB__ has joined #haiku

[05:10:53] <umccullough_work> ari-free, nah - i've been too busy/lazy

[05:11:21] <ari-free> because i really asked ryan and he passed it on to you iirc

[05:11:53] <ari-free> I could ask someone else

[05:15:10] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC

[05:18:02] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC

[05:18:44] <umccullough_work> ari-free, yeah - my free time is weird currently

[05:19:03] <ari-free> ok I'll post something to the list

[05:21:44] <koki_haiku> did somebody say coverity?

[05:22:17] * DeadYak pets koki_haiku

[05:22:49] <ari-free> yes

[05:23:01] <ari-free> they offer free scanning to open source projects

[05:23:24] <ari-free> http://scan.coverity.com

[05:24:03] <ari-free> you get special bonus points if you end up on rung 2 :)

[05:24:10] <koki_haiku> ari-free, a guy from coverity came to see us at LugRadio, and asked me to give his name to whoever in the Haiku project would like to work with him to get coverity working

[05:24:15] <koki_haiku> who would that be?

[05:24:28] <koki_haiku> hey DeadYak :)

[05:24:32] <DeadYak> hiya

[05:24:43] <umccullough_work> koki_haiku, interesting - that should be asked on the mailing list I think

[05:25:13] <koki_haiku> ok, will do

[05:25:32] <ari-free> oh so you actually met someone from coverity...I've been asking about it for awhile :)

[05:25:33] <umccullough_work> i guess haiku has been approached before from what i hear

[05:26:08] <koki_haiku> yes ari-free, on Sunday

[05:26:20] <ari-free> actually..since last year :)

[05:26:53] <DeadYak> he meant he met the guy from coverity on sunday

[05:27:06] <DeadYak> unless I misread what you were replying to :)

[05:27:47] <umccullough_work> ari-free, yeah, i see your email to the list  from 12/14/2006

[05:27:49] <koki_haiku> yes, that's what I meant

[05:28:17] *** daste has quit IRC

[05:28:21] <ari-free> well last year i posted to the list...got a vague response and figured not to worry about it until haiku actually made alpha

[05:28:40] <Technix> wow, its like, the Scientology of Open Source

[05:28:46] <DeadYak> ...?

[05:28:56] <Technix> Coverity

[05:28:57] <ari-free> haha

[05:29:02] <DeadYak> scientology how?

[05:29:10] <ari-free> because of the levels

[05:29:23] <Technix> scans, rungs, ladders, Responsible Disclosure, etc

[05:29:30] <DeadYak> ah

[05:29:38] <ari-free> you are now in the clear

[05:29:45] <Technix> roger roger.. 10-4

[05:29:54] * Technix gives the secret ear wiggle

[05:30:19] <umccullough_work> you must learn to handle

[05:30:33] <ari-free> Haiku would be the first complete OS on the list if accepted

[05:30:52] <Technix> umccullough_work: I must learn to handle?

[05:35:30] <koki_haiku> ari-free, email sent to the mailing list

[05:35:37] <ari-free> thanks

[05:40:28] <DeadYak> damn you koki_haiku :P

[05:40:30] <DeadYak> now I want cake :(

[05:40:50] <umccullough_work> CAKE!

[05:40:56] <umccullough_work> never there...

[05:41:11] <umccullough_work> i want the frosting flower

[05:42:14] <DeadYak> no fair, I want

[05:43:06] <umccullough_work> you got one last time!

[05:43:18] <DeadYak> did not

[05:43:29] <umccullough_work> did too

[05:43:33] <DeadYak> did not :/

[05:43:42] <umccullough_work> did too infinity

[05:43:54] * DeadYak cries in the corner

[05:44:02] <__ToddB__> did someone say CAKE?

[05:44:04] <umccullough_work> so there

[05:44:28] <umccullough_work> koki_haiku's making a cake for us all to split

[05:44:51] <__ToddB__> woot

[05:45:31] <__ToddB__> *sigh* why do I bother reading comments on tech news sites?

[05:46:01] <DeadYak> __ToddB__: comic relief?

[05:46:38] <__ToddB__> wish there was some kind of entertainment in it..

[05:47:11] <DeadYak> __ToddB__: in that case I'll go with masochism :P

[05:47:14] <__ToddB__> its always the same thing, I like macs, you are all stupid, linux is best, microsoft has most users..

[05:48:29] <umccullough_work> sounds like osnews

[05:48:43] <__ToddB__> was an article linked to osnews.. heh

[05:48:43] <umccullough_work> except, not quite as nasty

[05:48:52] <umccullough_work> osnews is quite a bit worse than that :)

[05:49:23] <__ToddB__> yeah, anything that has mac linux or windows in title on osnews, might as well skip the comments..

[05:49:52] <__ToddB__> its turns into a fanboy contest, the intelligent comments get so buried

[05:50:58] <DeadYak> aye

[05:51:21] <DeadYak> doesn't help that all someone has to do is make some quip about "M$" or whatever, and they get modded up like hell

[05:51:30] <DeadYak> which makes it that much harder to filter the chaff

[05:52:14] <__ToddB__> heh, I don't think I have ever posted, though I usually bash pretty hard on mac guys, its funny though, they are so defensive

[05:54:02] <umccullough_work> i don't post as much as i used to

[05:54:42] <umccullough_work> sometimes i'll post if there aren't any comments yet on an article

[05:54:52] <umccullough_work> otherwise it's pointless :)

[05:55:30] <__ToddB__> this is annoying, accidentally made two admin accounts on this laptop a long time ago

[05:56:54] <umccullough_work> windows...

[05:57:10] <__ToddB__> yeah, the two admin accounts can't see each other, so have to double install

[06:06:53] *** mats has quit IRC

[06:08:48] <umccullough_work> it is extremely irresponsible to write a formula as such: Z1 = (V)X(X)+(W)X(Y) and expect someone to understand what the fuck you mean

[06:10:14] <umccullough_work> i hate insurance

[06:17:11] <Monni> insurance is just legalized pyramide scam... just like banking

[06:17:47] <DeadYak> I love how everybody's "universal health care" plans over here seem to amount to subsidizing health insurance companies

[06:23:04] <umccullough_work> Monni, in this case it's self-insured public entity pools

[06:23:18] <umccullough_work> basically cities, counties, parks, etc.

[06:23:49] <umccullough_work> granted, they still have to purchase reinsurance

[06:23:58] <umccullough_work> and excess reinsurance

[06:24:35] <[Katisu]> DeadYak, what did you expect? the lawyers and doctors are getting their money already

[06:26:56] <__ToddB__> life insurance is an extreme scam, if you die, you can't collect, what are they thinking

[06:27:39] <DeadYak> __ToddB__: your wife/kids can

[06:27:42] <DeadYak> that's the point of it

[06:28:03] <umccullough_work> heh

[06:28:04] <[Katisu]> Isn't that what divorce is for?

[06:28:13] * koki_haiku wonders if he is in the wrong channel...

[06:28:27] <umccullough_work> #insurance-is-a-scam

[06:28:28] * [Katisu] wonders what type of cake koki_haiku is baking

[06:28:30] <__ToddB__> divorce is expensive

[06:28:41] <[Katisu]> and what type of icing

[06:28:42] <DeadYak> koki_haiku: so, about that cake...

[06:28:44] <__ToddB__> faking your own death is cheaper

[06:29:00] <Schmedly3D> It's funny people are talking insurance when I just got done running like a dozen quotes

[06:29:23] <DeadYak> for insurance?

[06:29:35] <Schmedly3D> But I fail to understand the overall lack of consistency for the dollar amounts

[06:29:42] <umccullough_work> Schmedly3D, wanna know a secret?

[06:29:50] <Schmedly3D> DeadYak: Yeah motorcycle insurance

[06:30:06] <Schmedly3D> umccullough_work: please yes yes secrets!

[06:30:12] <umccullough_work> they pull the numbers out of their ass

[06:30:19] <__ToddB__> isurance goes against darwin

[06:30:22] <Schmedly3D> I thought they smelled a little funny

[06:30:36] <__ToddB__> especially motorcycle insurance.. :)

[06:30:37] <umccullough_work> Schmedly3D, actually, commercial auto insurance is pretty cutthroat

[06:30:49] <Schmedly3D> Sort of a barnyardish aroma

[06:31:21] <Schmedly3D> One bike is anywhere from $550/yr to $1895/yr

[06:31:36] <umccullough_work> you looking for liability and property damage coverage?

[06:31:43] <umccullough_work> or just liability?

[06:31:51] <Schmedly3D> full coverage yes

[06:31:58] <umccullough_work> yeah, then it'll be all over the map :/

[06:32:10] <umccullough_work> depends on how nasty they get during claims processing

[06:32:47] <umccullough_work> some insurance companies charge you more up front and aren't nasty when filing claims - others are the worst ever to deal with if you have to file a claim, but end up being somewhat cheaper

[06:32:58] <Schmedly3D> It's like chaos theory in practice

[06:33:33] <umccullough_work> I'm with State Farm - and while it's a bit on the expensive side - they make my problems go away for me

[06:33:46] <__ToddB__> sounds like the mafia

[06:33:49] <umccullough_work> sorta ;)

[06:34:01] <umccullough_work> don' worry 'bout dat - we'll take care of it

[06:34:02] <Schmedly3D> State Farm always did good for me back in the day

[06:34:58] *** goosemo_ has joined #haiku

[06:35:40] <umccullough_work> i've got a pretty damn good driving record in the recent years - considering I commute ~100 miles a day

[06:35:46] <Schmedly3D> It's just rough because it seems some companies just don't care to insure motorcyclists at all

[06:35:48] <umccullough_work> so, they've been nice to me

[06:35:51] <__ToddB__> I am lazy, I am with same company started with..

[06:36:14] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku

[06:36:25] <Schmedly3D> I got treated to two tickets upon moving back to this area... after not having one for more than a dozen years

[06:36:32] <umccullough_work> yay!

[06:36:39] <Schmedly3D> I'm convinced that's how this city generates ALL it's revenue

[06:36:59] <__ToddB__> woot me too, got a ticket for headlight out, and not changing my license within 30 days

[06:37:20] <Schmedly3D> ooooh that's like a total technicality

[06:37:32] <__ToddB__> it only cost me 10 bucks, so no biggie

[06:37:41] <Schmedly3D> true

[06:37:56] <umccullough_work> yeah, i got nailed for no registration and a busted windshield not long ago

[06:38:06] <umccullough_work> then got nailed again two days later for no registration again

[06:38:08] <__ToddB__> headlight not a big deal, kind of glad they pulled me over and told me.. I would have never noticed

[06:38:18] <umccullough_work> then got nailed a couple months later for no registration again :P

[06:38:20] <__ToddB__> did you know your windshield ws busted?

[06:38:22] <Schmedly3D> I was upset about mine because I got a 35 in a 25 on an unmarked stretch of road and the statewide limit is supposed to be 35

[06:38:29] <umccullough_work> __ToddB__, yeah, had been for years

[06:38:44] <__ToddB__> you should have pretended you didn't notice

[06:38:58] <umccullough_work> it was hard not to...had 3 big cracks right across the middle :D

[06:39:18] <umccullough_work> didn't matter - was all just fixit ticket stuff

[06:39:27] <umccullough_work> except after a few months and getting nailed again - they weren't very nice tome

[06:39:27] <__ToddB__> my friend had some kind of weird car that the entire windshield would move back, the cops kept bugging him about not driving with windshield, so he sold it..

[06:39:37] <Schmedly3D> umccullough_work: Honestly officer, if you crane your neck just so... yeah like this.. it's perfectly clear <Head is outside window>

[06:39:57] <umccullough_work> heh Schmedly3D

[06:40:02] <umccullough_work> i was used to it

[06:40:22] <DeadYak> thanks for reminding me, I need to renew my plates

[06:41:03] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, we keep our plates - just get a new sticker each year :/

[06:41:07] <umccullough_work> but you know that

[06:41:10] <DeadYak> that's what I mean

[06:41:12] <umccullough_work> oh

[06:41:16] <Schmedly3D> I wonder if WALTER is available as a VA vanity plate heh

[06:41:20] <umccullough_work> some states give you new plates

[06:41:23] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: not here

[06:41:33] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: unless I want to get rid of my Forever Wild plates

[06:41:45] <DeadYak> (  == $10 extra to contribute to national park preservation)

[06:41:52] <umccullough_work> heh

[06:42:08] <umccullough_work> i like my plates plain

[06:42:21] <umccullough_work> except I have considered on several occasions getting one that says IM DUBM

[06:42:52] <__ToddB__> ME SMART more appropriate

[06:42:54] *** AlexForster has quit IRC

[06:42:55] <DeadYak> typo intentional?

[06:43:00] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, of course

[06:43:07] <Schmedly3D> umccullough: nice

[06:43:53] <umccullough_work> i saw an older honda civic a while back with a plate that said "UPGRADE"

[06:43:58] <DeadYak> ROTFL

[06:44:00] <DeadYak> nice

[06:44:01] <umccullough_work> i thought that was amusing - it was a shitty car

[06:44:14] <umccullough_work> makes one wonder what the previous car was ;)

[06:44:32] <__ToddB__> a unicycle with a missing wheel?

[06:44:55] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: sure it didn't mean "UPGRADE ME"? :)

[06:45:07] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, dunno :P

[06:45:31] <umccullough_work> i actually talked to the girl driving it (long story, but it was about the plate) - and she said her boyfriend got it for her

[06:46:24] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku

[06:46:27] <ddew|bofh> o/

[06:46:31] <umccullough_work> the reason I was interested in the plate was because it had the letters RAD in it - which was relevant to a local radio contest at the time

[06:46:43] <umccullough_work> i literally stopped her on the road to talk to her

[06:46:57] <Schmedly3D> umccullough_work: come on.. you know you're just a fan of 80's slang

[06:47:05] <umccullough_work> Schmedly3D, you'd think ;)

[06:47:18] *** cherry` has joined #haiku

[06:47:49] <Schmedly3D> I wonder if somebody would actually belive IAM COOL would be a good choice

[06:48:49] <Schmedly3D> oh hot dog, I didn't know the color depth bug for nvidia stuff was fixed

[06:49:05] <umccullough_work> Schmedly3D, by fixed, you mean Korli reverted the change that broke it

[06:49:16] <umccullough_work> still hasn't actually solved all the MTRR issues I don't think :(

[06:49:39] <Schmedly3D> ah I just noticed I didn't have to futz with it at first boot

[06:49:42] *** TheNerd_ has joined #haiku

[06:50:23] *** goosemo has quit IRC

[06:52:42] <Schmedly3D> how about more random chatter.. is anybody else excited to see the Speed Racer movie?

[06:52:54] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC

[06:53:00] <ddew|bofh> what's up with the haikuware images?

[06:53:34] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC

[06:53:58] *** goosemo_ is now known as goosemo

[06:56:33] <umccullough_work> ddew|bofh, what do you mean?

[06:56:40] *** cherrypie has quit IRC

[06:57:15] <ddew|bofh> i swa on haikuware that they'd been removed. but i'm going through the openbeos ml archives to get a better idea of the issue :)

[06:57:19] <ddew|bofh> *saw

[06:57:33] <umccullough_work> yeah, karl removed them

[07:00:00] <ddew|bofh> hopefully he'll be able to release an image with just oss apps and follow the guidelines

[07:00:17] <umccullough_work> "I've removed all images from Haikuware until further notice."

[07:00:58] <umccullough_work> i believe he intends to remove the trademark logo and name as required

[07:01:34] <umccullough_work> shit, it's already 10pm?

[07:02:15] <ddew|bofh> heh

[07:05:27] *** TheNerd has quit IRC

[07:07:51] *** M199 has joined #haiku

[07:09:24] <umccullough_work> shit

[07:09:42] <umccullough_work> i hate when i go back to re-use some code I've used before and realize it really sucks

[07:10:18] <umccullough_work> guess i'll have to refactor it tomorrow :(

[07:11:03] <ddew|bofh> know the feeling, i can write something i think is brilliant at night and the next morning when i take a look it looks like a retarded monkey wrote it

[07:13:28] <umccullough_work> :)

[07:13:33] <umccullough_work> in this case, it's years old stuff :/

[07:13:42] <ddew|bofh> even worse :)

[07:13:44] <umccullough_work> so - no surprise that it sucks now

[07:14:38] <ddew|bofh> "returning" to code in general is tricky

[07:16:25] <umccullough_work> can be

[07:17:12] <umccullough_work> we had a good WTF session yesterday with a chunk of code

[07:17:27] <umccullough_work> by the time we were done, half of it was removed entirely :)

[07:17:50] <ddew|bofh> heh, experince can be a cruel bitch

[07:18:13] <ddew|bofh> like "what the hell? i can do this with 4 lines instead of 20"

[07:18:20] <umccullough_work> well, it was worse than that

[07:18:35] <ddew|bofh> eek

[07:18:39] <umccullough_work> it was "what is this logic supposed to actually do - AFAICT, it does more harm than good"

[07:18:56] <umccullough_work> "and this scenario shouldn't even occur in the first place"

[07:19:02] <umccullough_work> so... bye bye code :)

[07:19:21] <umccullough_work> all problems solved mysteriously ;)

[07:19:24] <ddew|bofh> hehe

[07:20:05] <umccullough_work> too bad it took us a couple hours of pouring over the code before we figured that out :/

[07:20:29] <umccullough_work> and some heated arguments about whether it was useful or not before we all agreed it wasn't

[07:20:51] <ddew|bofh> well hopefully you've learned something from it

[07:20:54] <umccullough_work> the joys of team development

[07:21:19] <umccullough_work> well... the code had been written by a guy who is gone now

[07:21:40] <ddew|bofh> ah, atleast you had someone to blame then :)

[07:21:43] <umccullough_work> yeah

[07:22:53] *** Master199 has quit IRC

[07:22:54] *** M199 is now known as Master199

[07:26:29] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC

[07:27:00] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku

[07:27:12] <ddew|bofh> gah

[07:27:19] <umccullough_work> yeah?

[07:27:58] <ddew|bofh> it's hard to get stuff done when the system panics randomly when doing disk writes

[07:33:45] <aroman> what do you do when your housemates watch pr0n loudly in the living room? :S

[07:33:48] *** frankps has joined #haiku

[07:35:12] *** {Vzzz} is now known as {V}

[07:35:57] <{V}> aroman, I've no idea, my housemates aren't likely to do that. :)

[07:36:37] <aroman> {V}: ugh... can't wait to move back to Canada to be able to get work done...

[07:37:34] <umccullough_work> aroman, you could join them :)

[07:37:52] <aroman> umccullough_work: barring that option lol

[07:41:01] *** frankps has quit IRC

[07:42:47] *** Schmedly3D has left #haiku

[07:46:02] <umccullough_work> time to go home

[07:46:05] *** umccullough_work has quit IRC

[07:46:37] *** DHowett has joined #haiku

[07:50:15] <Technix> gah

[07:50:39] <Technix> something about the double kick bass in Nickleback's song "Animals" makes my heart race

[07:50:49] <Technix> maybe its just me

[07:51:02] <Technix> ddew|bofh: you find that episode of Top Gear?

[07:51:12] <ddew|bofh> yeah, saw it

[07:51:43] <ddew|bofh> fun car but it doesn't have that supercar "feel"

[07:51:58] <Technix> yeah, I sorta see your point

[07:52:08] <Technix> its almost like its the fisher price supercar

[07:52:17] <Technix> but, hey.. still a cool car

[07:52:18] <Technix> :P

[07:52:27] <ddew|bofh> they get an A for effort :)

[07:52:30] <Technix> for sure

[07:52:35] <DHowett> apparently duffel bags have a point of Critical Mass, after which they go supermassive, and become black holes. *examines the remains of his dorm room*

[07:52:36] <Technix> I think its the composite material its made out of

[07:52:54] <Technix> it makes it seem less of a traditional heavy supercar, you know?

[07:52:57] <ddew|bofh> composite cars can be made excellent

[07:53:06] <Technix> for sure, not saying they're not

[07:53:27] <ddew|bofh> i was down where they make the koenigsegg and the craftmasnhip is equisite

[07:53:39] <ddew|bofh> or however that word is spelled :P

[07:53:40] <Technix> oooh, really, that must have been a great experience

[07:53:49] <Technix> koeningsig?

[07:54:01] <Technix> segg

[07:54:06] <Technix> koenigsegg

[07:54:19] <Technix> you had it right the first time! :P

[07:54:22] <ddew|bofh> i was thinking of the equisite word, koenigsegg is spelt koenigsegg :P

[07:54:39] <Technix> that's an amazing car

[07:55:24] <ddew|bofh> anyway, the visit was actually an accident. me and dad were driving hopme from a Porsche meet and figured we'd check out their testing grounds. before we know it we're standing in front of their main hangar

[07:55:50] <Technix> c4 strapped to your thigh, fuse in hand... you know, the usual

[07:55:54] <Technix> oh, wrong story?

[07:55:55] <ddew|bofh> we even got the grand tour by mr koenigsegg himself :)

[07:56:09] <Technix> awesome

[07:56:13] <Technix> your dad is a car nutter?

[07:56:24] <ddew|bofh> we both are

[07:56:42] <Technix> hrm.. first car in space, you'll be the driver? :)

[07:57:06] <ddew|bofh> hehe, i'd try anyway

[07:57:21] <Technix> where is their main hanger, anyhow?

[07:57:24] <ddew|bofh> although with my limited budget i'll be happy to ever afford a car that tops 200

[07:57:29] <Technix> testing grounds, etc

[07:57:38] 

[07:58:07] <ddew|bofh> it's a really small factory, no robots or anything. it's basically 2 flight hangars down at an old army air-strip

[07:58:11] <Technix> what were you doing in Sweden? You flew all that way for a porsche meet?

[07:58:49] <ddew|bofh> i live here

[07:58:56] <Technix> since when!?

[07:59:06] <ddew|bofh> bred, born and raised :)

[07:59:44] <Technix> I'm confused..wow.. I Thought you were Andrew Bachmann?

[08:00:01] <ddew|bofh> nah, that's not me :)

[08:00:07] <Technix> lol.. geez

[08:00:12] <ddew|bofh> hehe

[08:00:23] <Technix> sorry, for the past 2 weeks, I thought that was you.. you were him, rather

[08:00:23] <Technix> hrm

[08:00:32] <ddew|bofh> confusion ftw :)

[08:00:46] <Technix> you're both developers, I thought .. err.. ok, *clears head*

[08:00:59] <__ToddB__> but lots of people here are developers

[08:01:10] <ddew|bofh> it's ok, people in general tend to confuse me with others

[08:01:25] <Technix> but but... um.. there's multiple reasons why I was mistaken..  sigh

[08:01:28] <ddew|bofh> i'm like teflon, i just don't stick in people's minds

[08:02:06] <Technix> ok, so its nice to meet you, ddew|bofh .. officially. :)

[08:02:32] <ddew|bofh> hehe, the same to you

[08:02:35] <Technix> ok, for a complete change of topic...

[08:02:36] <Technix> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm

[08:02:37] <Technix> :)

[08:03:20] <{V}> Technix, blame Andrew :p he should've stuck with er... Shatty?

[08:03:30] <Technix> yeah, that must be what it was

[08:03:39] <Technix> seriously, I thought he was Andrew.

[08:04:02] <{V}> and er.. old news "Last Updated: Wednesday, 16 July, 2003"

[08:04:20] <Technix> oh my you're right

[08:04:23] <Technix> stupid digg

[08:04:38] <Technix> doesn't mean I won't show it to my gf. :)

[08:04:39] <ddew|bofh> can't stand digg

[08:04:42] <Technix> the article

[08:04:57] <{V}> not that people shouldn't be reminded of course :D

[08:05:40] <Technix> already convinced her that weekly manjuice is a good thing for her health and fight against breast cancer... :P

[08:06:02] <ddew|bofh> heh

[08:06:48] <{V}> good for her health, sure maybe.. but helpful against breast cancer? now that's a stretch

[08:07:12] <{V}> or maybe she just plays along :p

[08:07:32] <Technix> either way, I'm not complaining? :)

[08:08:07] <{V}> hahahaha

[08:11:20] <__ToddB__> heheh, he said stretch

[08:11:36] <Technix> that's a real goiner

[08:11:39] <Technix> groiner

[08:13:49] <__ToddB__> be careful, your plan could backfire, is a thing called prostate cancer..

[08:13:52] <Technix> bbl, got a boatload of work to do

[08:14:41] <DHowett> I misread that as goatload.

[08:15:17] *** {V} is now known as {V}afk

[08:18:01] *** __ToddB__ has quit IRC

[08:30:37] *** plfiorini has quit IRC

[08:36:14] *** MaisUM has joined #haiku

[08:38:07] *** MaisUM has left #haiku

[08:57:23] *** Roderic has joined #Haiku

[09:11:11] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku

[09:18:45] *** Stargater has joined #haiku

[09:18:48] <Stargater> moin

[09:23:48] *** Euver has joined #haiku

[09:24:34] *** psychodealiq has joined #haiku

[09:24:58] <psychodealiq> hi all!

[09:31:25] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku

[09:33:02] *** dr_evil has quit IRC

[09:33:16] *** koki_haiku has quit IRC

[09:34:33] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku

[09:36:53] <ddew|bofh> *groan* i hate jehova's witnesses

[09:37:17] <ddew|bofh> this time they brought a child with them so i couldn't be as eloquent as i wanted to be :(

[09:38:07] <DHowett> Child looks up at you all innocent "d'you want a pamflet, mister?" .. elder teaching them to be a jehova's witness. Do you take it and make the child feel good? :P

[09:38:48] <JonathanThompson> ddew|bofh, so what if they brought a child with them?

[09:38:51] <ddew|bofh> hell no, it just meant that i had to choose my words more carefully as i, unlike jehova's witnesses, am a moral being

[09:39:26] <JonathanThompson> You don't suppose they're perfectly eloquent in their language at home with their child in their presence all the time, do you? ;)

[09:39:32] <JonathanThompson> They're only human, after all.

[09:39:53] <ari-free> just say you're not interested, thank you, goodbye close the door

[09:40:04] <ddew|bofh> sure, but no child should be forced to see someone yelling at their parents or cursing at them

[09:40:54] <JonathanThompson> What would also be far more effective is if you keep (just for this purpose) a copy of some other religion's paraphernalia handy and inform them "I'll take a Watch Tower ONLY if you take this with you and read it"

[09:41:13] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku

[09:41:16] <JonathanThompson> ddew|bofh, that's on their heads: keep in mind why they take their kids with them.

[09:41:27] <ari-free> confrontation doesn't really work well

[09:41:41] <ari-free> it's what they want

[09:41:53] <ddew|bofh> i didn't confront them all that much. but this time they really fucked up

[09:41:57] <ari-free> so you just ignore and get on with life

[09:42:17] <JonathanThompson> Well, ari-free, this much I do know about the tactic I just proposed of exchange (no words) is that they can be excommunicated if they're thought to have done anything with some other religious material.

[09:42:18] <ddew|bofh> one of them was wearing a jacket with wool lining

[09:42:28] <JonathanThompson> And, how's that bad?

[09:42:33] <ddew|bofh> i politely asked when i should come over and put them to death

[09:42:39] <ddew|bofh> read leviticus

[09:42:52] <ddew|bofh> it's an abomination to mix wool and cotton

[09:43:01] <ari-free> um no

[09:43:06] <JonathanThompson> An interesting opinion.

[09:43:16] * JonathanThompson wonders if ddew|bofh eats por

[09:43:19] <JonathanThompson> +k

[09:43:20] <ari-free> the problem is with wool and linen

[09:43:53] <ddew|bofh> i eat pork :)

[09:43:56] <JamesB192> I uninstalled coreutils (I should've heeded the warning), I am hoping someone could point me toward fixing my system, without totally rebuilding it.

[09:44:02] * JonathanThompson stones ddew|bofh

[09:44:19] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps a ritual cleansing would be sufficient instead ;)

[09:44:26] *** JamesB192 has left #haiku

[09:44:32] <JonathanThompson> After all, pork is an unclean meat.

[09:44:42] <JonathanThompson> (Going by old testament rules)

[09:44:45] <ddew|bofh> i also reguraliy blaspheme and if you like i can start worshipping false idols :)

[09:44:57] <JonathanThompson> You mean you don't already? ;)

[09:44:59] <ddew|bofh> *regularily

[09:45:20] <ddew|bofh> i don't worship anything

[09:45:53] <JonathanThompson> That may not be as straightforward as most people think :)

[09:45:58] <DHowett> "I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?"

[09:46:06] <JonathanThompson> Oh well, not that I'm going to convince you anyway one way or the other.

[09:46:46] <ddew|bofh> indeed you aren't, you'll have about as much success as someone trying to convince me that santa claus is real and that the world was created by a unicorn :)

[09:47:06] * JonathanThompson suddenly becomes horribly disillusioned

[09:47:12] <JonathanThompson> :)

[09:47:27] <ddew|bofh> hey, to each his own

[09:47:49] <ddew|bofh> religion, for people who are too stupid for science ;)

[09:48:12] <JonathanThompson> Science only, for those that have no faith in any other religion ;)

[09:48:41] <ddew|bofh> almost got it right, except that science isn't a religion

[09:49:05] <JonathanThompson> Well, one could argue that, but... I don't see it working with you anyway.

[09:49:31] <ddew|bofh> "religion: a belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny"

[09:49:37] *** psychodealiq has left #haiku

[09:49:50] <JonathanThompson> Both have a definite process, just that science is "Believe what you see" and faith may be called (until proven otherwise) "See what you believe"

[09:50:08] * ari-free sure doesn't want the commies to persecute those of religious faith

[09:50:17] <ddew|bofh> exactly, it's all founded in faith

[09:50:45] <ddew|bofh> yeah, commies got it wrong

[09:50:46] <ari-free> if someone doesn't believe or does believe, ok as long as they don't push it on others

[09:51:00] <JonathanThompson> And yet, the scientific process is also predicated on faith, just more readily measured by other means that were established at some point or another based on faith in their correctness and inviolable nature ;)

[09:51:01] <ddew|bofh> indeed, which is why i hate our government

[09:51:21] <ddew|bofh> no, faith is believing in something despite evidence

[09:51:35] <JonathanThompson> And there are many things that were considered fact as established by science, and had to be revised.

[09:52:06] <JonathanThompson> Thus, many scientific theories and "Facts" were believed in despite not seeing the whole picture, or seeing it incorrectly.

[09:52:07] <ddew|bofh> indeed, that's the beauty of science. learning new things

[09:52:31] <JonathanThompson> But it is incorrect to state that no faith is involved.

[09:52:45] <ddew|bofh> unlike religion which is based on believing in a doctrine despite lack of evidence

[09:53:09] <ddew|bofh> no, it's not incorrect to state that science requires faith

[09:53:36] <ddew|bofh> atleast not in the religious context

[09:53:43] <ari-free> it requires faith in human rationality

[09:53:52] <ddew|bofh> no it doesn't, not even that

[09:53:53] <ari-free> free will

[09:54:17] *** JBurton has joined #haiku

[09:54:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton

[09:54:21] <ddew|bofh> the only thing science requires is evidence

[09:54:22] <JBurton> hi all

[09:54:26] <ddew|bofh> hiya

[09:54:32] <JonathanThompson> At minimum, it does require faith that those that established what are considered "facts" both knew what they knew, and didn't lie or exaggerate.

[09:54:55] <ari-free> evidence is what? science is like collecting stamps?

[09:55:07] <ari-free> evidence has to be evaluated

[09:55:15] <ddew|bofh> ari-free: in a very blunt sense of the word, yes

[09:55:34] <ari-free> so you have to have faith it can be properly evaluated

[09:55:35] * JonathanThompson beats ddew|bofh over the head with a big blunt YES

[09:55:44] <ddew|bofh> heh

[09:56:10] <Technix> can we get some evidence of that, JonathanThompson? I don't want to take it on faith you beat him up

[09:56:17] <Technix> pictures, video is better.

[09:56:24] <JonathanThompson> I guess I'll have to work on that evidence ;)

[09:56:44] <ddew|bofh> :)

[09:56:55] <JonathanThompson> I'm sure if I could find him and get him within my reach, I could do a number on him, though it may be imaginary ;)

[09:57:21] <Thom_Holwerda> right, the legal experts replied, they're taking on the case :) (the apple eula thing)

[09:57:27] <ari-free> yay

[09:57:39] <JonathanThompson> Should be interesting to see how that all breaks down, Thom_Holwerda :)

[09:57:42] <ddew|bofh> you see, this is another thing about religion that annoys me. in a religiously controlled world you'd be in your right to harm me for having a differing opinion

[09:57:56] <JonathanThompson> Now, what is the jurisdiction of said lawyers for that, Thom_Holwerda?

[09:58:07] <Thom_Holwerda> what?

[09:58:14] <JonathanThompson> Depends on your religious beliefs, ddew|bofh.

[09:58:21] <JonathanThompson> That's not in my religious beliefs.

[09:58:33] <ddew|bofh> JonathanThompson: the judeochristian beliefs all have that

[09:58:40] <JonathanThompson> bullshit

[09:58:55] <JonathanThompson> You're making an overly broad statement.

[09:59:10] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: read christ's teachings, or mohammed's, and you'll see that none of them promote violence and harming others

[09:59:13] <ari-free> impossible to enforce nonbelief

[09:59:29] <Thom_Holwerda> it are the PEOPLE that teach that

[09:59:32] *** DHowett has left #haiku

[09:59:48] <ddew|bofh> Thom_Holwerda: no, but it's the word of god and god is infallable.

[10:00:02] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: for a few nutjobs maybe

[10:00:12] <Thom_Holwerda> but for the majorty in the western world? no.

[10:00:34] <Thom_Holwerda> and let's face it, atheism itself has turned into a religion.

[10:00:56] <JonathanThompson> At times, an organized disorganization ;)

[10:01:01] <ddew|bofh> it is in the bible, and if the world was controlled by those religions he'd be able to kill me without any consequences

[10:01:04] <ddew|bofh> :)

[10:01:06] <Thom_Holwerda> complete with claiming the One Truth, feelings of moral superiority, and the drive to convert others.

[10:01:07] <JonathanThompson> They're all together in being all apart ;)

[10:01:23] <ddew|bofh> Thom_Holwerda: you need to check the definition of religion :)

[10:01:44] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and swims like a duck, it's most likely a duck.

[10:01:56] * ari-free jewish. we don't go around killing people

[10:02:03] <JonathanThompson> Either that, or a very convincing pseudoduck ;)

[10:02:12] * JonathanThompson waits for it

[10:02:15] * ddew|bofh is an atheist and doesn't go around killing people

[10:02:18] <Thom_Holwerda> technically, im roman catholic, and ive never killed anyone either.

[10:02:29] <ari-free> i want to make the world a better place

[10:02:31] <JonathanThompson> I've not killed anyone yet - but there may be a first ;)

[10:02:46] <JonathanThompson> But, it won't be on grounds of religious beliefs it'd occur for me to do so.

[10:02:50] <Thom_Holwerda> im already making the world a better place by being my glowing and enchanting self.

[10:02:51] <ddew|bofh> i hate religion as a concept and i feel sad for those that need it in their lives

[10:03:02] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: et voila, arrogance.

[10:03:18] <ddew|bofh> arrogance? because i hate a belief system?

[10:03:30] * JonathanThompson notes ddew|bofh attempting to convert us as much as he claims we're trying to convert him

[10:03:31] <Thom_Holwerda> no, because you just claimed your moral superiorty

[10:03:59] <ddew|bofh> i hate it in the same way i find racism offensive

[10:04:01] <ari-free> you can be sad all you want. you can be whatever you want. it's your choice

[10:04:25] <Thom_Holwerda> im not religious at all either, but i dont hate anyone just for his beliefs, or hate their beliefs in general

[10:04:34] <Thom_Holwerda> i only hate beliefs that harm others

[10:04:42] <ddew|bofh> i don't hate anyone because they're religious

[10:04:47] <Thom_Holwerda> and ive yet to meet someone that tried to hurt me using their beliefs

[10:04:54] <JonathanThompson> And I'm sure you've found individuals you've found good reason to hate, Thom_Holwerda ;)

[10:05:04] <Thom_Holwerda> JonathanThompson: boy do i.

[10:05:09] <ari-free> part of the job at osnews :)

[10:05:15] <JonathanThompson> I won't try to say I don't have people I hate :)

[10:05:59] <ddew|bofh> hate is an evil nevessity

[10:06:04] <ddew|bofh> *nessecity

[10:06:11] <JonathanThompson> Necessity, even ;)

[10:06:12] <Thom_Holwerda> i just find religion irrelevant

[10:06:51] <ddew|bofh> i have a government that forces me to pay money to support religion which makes it hard to stay neutral

[10:07:06] <Thom_Holwerda> vote for someone else

[10:07:11] <Thom_Holwerda> you're a democratic country.

[10:07:14] <JonathanThompson> I don't believe that humanity will ever exist with one completely agreed upon belief system, until the human population is exactly 1.

[10:07:26] <Thom_Holwerda> JonathanThompson: and even then.

[10:07:41] <Thom_Holwerda> everyone has doubts.

[10:07:45] <JonathanThompson> ddew|bofh, I can wholeheartedly agree, that's sick and wrong, and that's the sort of thing why the US was formed.

[10:07:45] <ddew|bofh> Thom_Holwerda: what makes you think i don't vote?

[10:08:07] <Thom_Holwerda> i didnt imply that did i? :)

[10:08:08] * JonathanThompson exhorts ddew|bofh to move to the US where that doesn't exist

[10:08:14] <Thom_Holwerda> JonathanThompson: hahahahahaha

[10:08:15] <JBurton> democracy doesnt' work anyway

[10:08:26] <JBurton> (btw just had elections here)

[10:08:28] <JonathanThompson> Of course, I know there's too much ddew|bofh would lose for doing that ;)

[10:08:31] <ari-free> it is good enough

[10:08:34] <JBurton> and for the first time, I didn't vote

[10:08:36] <JBurton> because

[10:08:42] <ddew|bofh> i can't move to a country that is so infested by religion that even their currency has propaganda on it ;)

[10:08:43] <JBurton> it's hard to choose between shit and crap

[10:08:44] <JonathanThompson> All were bad choices?

[10:08:48] <JBurton> of course

[10:08:57] <Thom_Holwerda> Marianne Thieme!!

[10:09:00] <ari-free> you think democracy is bad because you've never seen the alternative which is much worse

[10:09:16] <JBurton> the system is completely rotten

[10:09:19] <Thom_Holwerda> democracy is the least crappiest governmental system

[10:09:26] <ddew|bofh> can't understand anyone who thinks democracy is inferior

[10:09:42] <Thom_Holwerda> i'd exhcnage it for something better any day.

[10:09:45] <ddew|bofh> absolute democracy would be best but that's kinda hard to implement

[10:09:46] <JBurton> ddew|bofh I didn't say it's inferior. I said it doesn't work

[10:09:49] <JonathanThompson> And yet, you're in the odd state where you bitch and moan about paying taxes towards supporting any single religion, and you'll draw the line at moving to a country you claim has that minor thing on the money, and yet, there's all kinds of court cases and such and the nature of the government to keep you from going towards any particular religion?

[10:10:01] <JBurton> ahah

[10:10:06] <JonathanThompson> Color me confused over such silly logic, of choosing the greater of two evils ;)

[10:10:19] <Thom_Holwerda> time for breakfast

[10:10:32] * Thom_Holwerda so promised himself not to get into any existential debates before noon

[10:10:45] <ari-free> iceland not a religious country. maybe you'll be happy with that

[10:10:51] <JonathanThompson> The best form of government is a benign dictator that knows what they're doing and works towards the best for the entire people.

[10:10:53] <ddew|bofh> JonathanThompson: your country is even worse than .se. you have expresidents saying that an atheist shouldn't be considered a citizen

[10:11:06] <JonathanThompson> Sadly, that's hard to accomplish, and you get more bad dictators than good.

[10:11:10] *** JBurton has quit IRC

[10:11:18] <JonathanThompson> Which ones are those?

[10:11:24] <ddew|bofh> george bush

[10:11:27] <JonathanThompson> And, as long as they don't put it into law, it means nothing.

[10:11:44] <JonathanThompson> Freedom of speech, religion, and all those things.

[10:11:54] <JonathanThompson> The freedom to believe what you want, or nothing of what you don't want.

[10:12:02] <Roderic> sane people shouldn't be citizen

[10:12:02] <Technix> This reminds me of my thoughts on Lost: Jack == Hugo Chavez, Locke == Fidel Castro

[10:12:04] <Roderic> they are sane

[10:12:05] <ari-free> people can say whatever they want. even expresidents

[10:12:08] <Roderic> that's not fair :p

[10:12:18] <JonathanThompson> Ok, so printed currency still has references you find offensive: live and let live, and STFU about such useless things to worry about.

[10:12:21] *** Roderic is now known as Ingenu

[10:12:36] *** Odium has quit IRC

[10:12:41] <Technix> hi Ingenu

[10:12:43] <Ingenu> truth is rather than people with a religion should loose their citizenship

[10:12:46] <Ingenu> they are not sane

[10:12:49] <ddew|bofh> there are laws prohibiting atheists from holding a political office. a country that allows those sort of things is on my shitlist :)

[10:12:52] <Ingenu> they can't decide for others

[10:13:08] <Ingenu> than/that

[10:13:10] <Ingenu> hey

[10:13:11] <JonathanThompson> I'm convinced you'll never find a place that fits all your needs: it's an engineering choice in budgeting in reality, and you need to accept the fact that you'll need to make tradeoffs somewhere.

[10:13:24] <Ingenu> started a new job in Olso left everything behind me sort of

[10:13:27] <ddew|bofh> indeed, which is why i'm staying put here :)

[10:13:30] <JonathanThompson> Show me those laws, ddew|bofh.  Then, demonstrate that they're actually enforced.

[10:13:31] <Ingenu> so no computer at "home" here

[10:13:32] <Technix> Ingenu: nice

[10:13:38] <Ingenu> that's.... difficult

[10:13:41] <Technix> (re: new job)

[10:13:42] <Ingenu> feel like a monk

[10:13:52] <Ingenu> yeah working at Funcom, I think my IP shows it

[10:13:57] <Technix> ah, yeah, life (at home) without internet sucks

[10:14:02] <Ingenu> patching Age of Conan

[10:14:05] <ddew|bofh> JonathanThompson: alabama and texas have those laws

[10:14:13] <Technix> oh, I saw an ad for that, any good?

[10:14:16] <JonathanThompson> Find the link online for me to look them up.

[10:14:27] <Ingenu> I'm considering getting a MacBook Pro 17" HD 4GB and making it dual boot with Vista x64

[10:14:36] <JonathanThompson> And then, again, via the scientific method, show me that they're actually enforced: I won't take your word on faith alone ;)

[10:14:37] <Ingenu> HD=1920.1200

[10:14:40] <ddew|bofh> my bad, i was thinking of arkansas

[10:15:03] <Ingenu> Age of Conan is rather nice, and that's from somone not really into MMOG

[10:15:18] <ari-free> you considered moving to arkansas? ;)

[10:15:29] <ddew|bofh> the bill of rights of the texas constitution (article I, Section 4)

[10:15:38] <Ingenu> I think it could be a fair game in solo mode, so that's a huge improvement over most MMOG which suck as solo games

[10:15:45] <JonathanThompson> I can tell you straight out: if those laws truly are on the books, they'd never get past constitutional scrutiny at the federal level.

[10:15:46] <Technix> wow, that says a lot

[10:15:55] <ddew|bofh> i can be a satanist, but not an atheist

[10:16:01] <Technix> I'm still into Eve Online, Ingenu

[10:16:17] <CIA-34> mmlr * r24980 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/busses/usb/ (ehci.cpp uhci.cpp): (log message trimmed)

[10:16:17] <CIA-34> * Increase the amount of tries in the EHCI BIOS handover so it lasts for up to

[10:16:17] <CIA-34>  1 second instead of half a second. Might help with slow BIOSes.

[10:16:17] <CIA-34> * Disable EHCI interrupts if the BIOS handover fails so that we do not flood

[10:16:19] <Ingenu> rly ? I'm not anymore ^^

[10:16:21] <CIA-34>  the system with interrupts if the BIOS later on decides to still comply with

[10:16:22] <CIA-34>  our handover request.

[10:16:24] <CIA-34> * Add an unconditional success message to EHCI and UHCI to better see if

[10:16:39] <Ingenu> I did borrow a friend's account to see the latest gfx patch though

[10:16:44] <Ingenu> looked really nice

[10:16:51] <Ingenu> but I think I could make it way better ;)

[10:16:54] <ari-free> http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/txconst/sections/cn000100-000400.html

[10:16:57] <Ingenu> but Iceland too cold for me

[10:17:02] <Technix> yeah, I know, but its a start

[10:17:09] <Ingenu> Norway's probably as far north as I'm willing to go

[10:17:09] <Technix> just wait till Ambulation comes out

[10:17:14] <ari-free> that actually is news to me

[10:17:24] <JonathanThompson> Now, the harder part: proof that such a bit has been enforced ;)

[10:17:49] <ari-free> that would be hard

[10:17:52] <ddew|bofh> it's in the consitution of the state, _not_ following it would be the crime

[10:18:19] <ari-free> but the principle is there and people have a right to object based on principle

[10:18:25] <JonathanThompson> Ah, but it violates the federal constitution on a very important part: I can't see that being allowed if pressed at the federal level.

[10:18:36] <ddew|bofh> and it has been enforced in maryland

[10:19:26] <JonathanThompson> Where's a link to that proof?

[10:19:34] <ddew|bofh> had to take it to the supreme court to have it lifted

[10:19:51] <Technix> Ingenu: IRC proves my shared realities theory well.

[10:20:12] <JonathanThompson> You just proved my point, though: sure, it took the supreme court, but... it was lifted because it violated federal rights in that manner.

[10:20:28] <ari-free> article 6 of federal const: he Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under...

[10:20:29] <JonathanThompson> It was legally unenforceable if someone truly challenged it, as unconstitutional.

[10:20:31] <ari-free> ...the United States.

[10:21:12] <JonathanThompson> The US, as messed up as it is, does have a fairly effective set of checks and balances, and that wasn't by accident.

[10:21:30] <ari-free> well, now you see why you shouldn't be for absolute democracy

[10:21:33] <JonathanThompson> Is it perfect?  Well, it's limited by people and how they behave, just like any government, of course.

[10:22:43] <JonathanThompson> If too large of a portion of the public get whacked in their direction, then of course, any government and the people are doomed.

[10:22:54] <ari-free> the majority should not be allowed to screw the minority

[10:23:06] <JonathanThompson> No piece of paper can keep people as a whole from shooting themselves in the foot if they really are intent on it.

[10:23:25] <JonathanThompson> And thus, one of the checks: the right to bear arms.

[10:23:45] <ari-free> :)

[10:24:29] * JonathanThompson awaits the news that ddew|bofh has organized an armed campaign to take out the government that forcibly uses his tax money to support any given religion against his expressed will

[10:24:37] <Ingenu> everyone living in the same world, but everyone seeing it differently

[10:24:41] <Ingenu> that's not something new

[10:25:22] *** ThomHolwerda has joined #haiku

[10:25:27] <Ingenu> and it doesn't help getting us along

[10:26:17] <ddew|bofh> JonathanThompson: don't think i haven't considered it ;)

[10:26:26] * JonathanThompson attempts to go to bed or something equivalent since it's almost 1:30 a.m. local time and he has a regular job that requires mental alertness

[10:26:40] <ddew|bofh> nighty night

[10:26:59] <Ingenu> good night

[10:27:04] <ari-free> cya

[10:27:05] <Technix> nite ddew|bofh

[10:27:12] <ThomHolwerda> dont dream of bad killing atheists

[10:27:17] <ThomHolwerda> :P

[10:27:41] <ddew|bofh> heh

[10:27:44] * Technix spins up M.A.R.R.S. - Pump Up The Volume... Everyone, please get down now.

[10:28:26] <geist> flash the message "somethings out tere"

[10:28:30] <geist> floating in the summer sky

[10:28:35] <geist> 99 red balloons go by

[10:28:58] <ThomHolwerda> OMG OMG OMG ghosts are teh real!!11!

[10:28:59] <ThomHolwerda> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article726271.ece

[10:29:06] <ThomHolwerda> the sun says so, so it MUST be true

[10:29:26] <geist> certainly would make things more interesting

[10:29:36] <ari-free> the sun also says page 3 is real

[10:29:55] <ddew|bofh> actually the sun says it's fake ;)

[10:30:00] <Technix> isn't page 3 the sunshine girl?

[10:30:40] <ddew|bofh> yeah, the morning nudity

[10:30:47] <ThomHolwerda> why is the little kid crying?

[10:31:09] <ThomHolwerda> i wouldnt be crying standing next to a chick in a red top

[10:31:20] <ddew|bofh> look the grownups, wouldn't you be crying if your mom was like that?

[10:31:27] <ThomHolwerda> good point.

[10:31:57] <ThomHolwerda> OMG OMG OMG teenage moms!1!!

[10:32:01] <ari-free> the kid is crying because she's really her dad

[10:32:34] <ddew|bofh> i'm not against teenage moms, i'm against fucked up teenage moms :P

[10:32:58] <ThomHolwerda> i have no issue with teenage moms if they turn into pretty milfs

[10:33:01] <ari-free> what is scarier? the ghost or the stoned girl on the left?

[10:33:10] <aroman> there should be a #haiku-dev :P heh

[10:33:25] <ThomHolwerda> aroman: better get used to this :P

[10:33:39] <aroman> ThomHolwerda: :) it's ok... was just saying :)

[10:33:52] <ThomHolwerda> speaking of milfs, has my neighbour left yet?

[10:33:54] <aroman> ThomHolwerda: kinda fun to watch :)

[10:34:27] <ddew|bofh> it's hardly ever dull :)

[10:34:34] <aroman> any Mac users here own TextMate?

[10:35:10] <aroman> or if not, other than vim and xcode, what editor you use for coding?

[10:35:31] <ari-free> mac users use vim?

[10:35:38] <aroman> ari-free: I do anyways :P

[10:35:47] <aroman> when I'm in Terminal

[10:37:10] <ari-free> the mac in emacs is not enough

[10:40:03] *** tradewind has joined #haiku

[10:44:50] *** JBurton has joined #haiku

[10:44:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton

[10:44:54] <JBurton> re

[10:48:15] <ThomHolwerda> ari-free: you joined osn i see ;)

[10:48:40] <ari-free> a long time ago though i may have changed names from time to time

[10:49:02] <ari-free> i remember eugenia from the beos days

[10:49:18] <ari-free> thats how i discovered osnews originally

[10:50:16] <ThomHolwerda> yeah she worked at benews and ported some small apps and games to beos

[10:50:40] <ari-free> she was also very vocal on the beos mailing lists :)

[10:51:04] <ThomHolwerda> i'd imagine

[10:51:37] <ari-free> yup she definitely has character

[10:53:16] * ari-free looking forward to haiku on coverity

[10:53:31] <ari-free> mozilla on coverity: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=coverity&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=exact&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_co

[10:53:33] <ari-free> ntact2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=

[10:53:35] <ari-free> woops

[10:53:51] <ari-free> those links sure don't look so long on the address bar

[10:54:09] *** HeTo has joined #haiku

[10:54:15] <JBurton> ari-free we had already been contacted long ago

[10:54:18] <JBurton> but now it seems different

[10:54:33] <JBurton> since, well, we have much more visibility now

[10:55:28] <ari-free> yes. I think it would be a good opportunity for coverity because haiku is a complete OS

[10:55:37] <ari-free> not just a kernel

[10:55:41] <JBurton> yeah

[10:55:55] <JBurton> and since now we can build haiku with gcc4, it should be much easier

[10:56:05] <JBurton> last time we could only build with a custom 2.95.3

[10:56:12] <JBurton> which wasn't the best situation for coverity

[10:56:14] <ari-free> yeah that's right

[10:57:08] <ari-free> the mozilla people do seem to like it

[10:57:11] <Technix> Hey look! a recursion! http://echelog.matzon.dk/logs/browse/haiku/1208296800

[10:57:14] <Technix> hehe

[10:57:19] *** rdmr has joined #haiku

[10:57:28] <Technix> you'll be able to see that link in roughly five minute

[10:57:30] <Technix> s

[10:58:07] <JBurton> lol

[10:58:09] <JBurton> already

[10:58:57] <Technix> umccullough pretty much smokes us all in quantity

[11:01:50] <Technix> http://echelog.matzon.dk/stats/haiku.html  ... geez, 5700+ actions by JonathanThompson

[11:02:26] <ari-free> thats it?

[11:02:40] * ari-free jealous

[11:02:49] * ari-free tries to beat him

[11:02:59] * ari-free gives up

[11:03:04] <Technix> nice try

[11:03:13] <ari-free> it's hopeless

[11:05:47] <ari-free> this is an interesting article http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/12/11/coverity-race_1.html

[11:08:14] <HeTo> Haiku code quality seems to be great

[11:08:31] <HeTo> if over 20 % of CIA lines had a sad face on them

[11:08:32] <Technix> sigh... We have found our nemesis! Windows Haiku!

[11:08:33] <Technix> http://www.garthbigelow.com/haiku.htm

[11:09:40] <ari-free> we must enforce our brand!

[11:10:30] <ari-free> only haiku native browsers will have those errors!

[11:13:37] *** rdmr has quit IRC

[11:15:43] *** rdmr has joined #haiku

[11:17:14] *** Roderic has joined #Haiku

[11:28:12] *** Ingenu has quit IRC

[11:32:01] *** Euver has quit IRC

[11:35:29] *** cherry`` has joined #haiku

[11:36:59] <ThomHolwerda> always fun, discussing osnews' future on the private m-l :).

[11:39:54] *** Roderic is now known as Ingenu

[11:41:53] <Stargater> re ho ha whats a job :-) i have a good run now on my app, ich hope it is finish in 2 day :-)

[11:41:58] <Stargater> JBurton hi

[11:42:12] <Stargater> http://tm.kaldience.com/dir/members/stargater/bilder/pairs_shots/Pairs003.png

[11:42:34] <ThomHolwerda> Stargater: you got wireless working in zeta?

[11:42:36] <ThomHolwerda> you're a god

[11:42:43] <ThomHolwerda> i spent weeks trying to figure that out

[11:42:49] <ThomHolwerda> never succeeded.

[11:42:54] <Stargater> ThomHolwerda yes zeta can wifi

[11:42:55] <JBurton> hi Stargater

[11:43:50] <Stargater> ThomHolwerda here sony vaio laptop PCG-Z1XEP

[11:44:57] *** cherry` has quit IRC

[11:47:46] <Technix> sigh

[11:47:50] <Technix> I miss my girl

[11:48:17] <Technix> if I had a magic wand, I'd wave it, and *poof*, she'd be here, NOW

[11:51:18] <PoissonPilote> can't you ftp real persons ?

[11:53:14] <smtms> the file teleporation protocol works only for files unfortunately, not for persons

[11:53:53] <PoissonPilote> probably could be fixed with the IP over time patch

[11:54:47] <PulkoMandy> there is a PTP... but the P is for "Picture" and not "Person" :(

[11:56:52] <PoissonPilote> well if anyone patches it, I'll be glad to try it out  - but let Technix use the first releases though

[11:58:27] *** [1]umccullough has joined #haiku

[12:06:33] *** Kernel86 has joined #Haiku

[12:11:13] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC

[12:13:50] *** meisje has joined #haiku

[12:15:23] *** umccullough has quit IRC

[12:15:23] *** [1]umccullough is now known as umccullough

[12:23:09] <PoissonPilote> How come there is gdb in the default haiku OS image but not gcc ?

[12:25:58] <tradewind> it is not so weird... during tests if something goes wrong you don't need a compiler but a debugger is very useful

[12:28:34] <HeTo> I've filed a bug of the ipro100 driver slowdown I experienced last night: http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/2084

[12:29:27] *** Stargater has quit IRC

[12:31:47] *** SprMa has joined #haiku

[12:34:38] *** aroman has quit IRC

[12:36:18] <Technix> and not to mention, PoissonPilote, what version of gcc would you recommend? There are pros and cons for each

[12:37:57] *** surrounder has quit IRC

[12:38:08] *** surrounder has joined #haiku

[12:41:27] <Technix> omg, my online 80's station is playing.... Rick Astley

[12:41:33] * Technix rick rolls over, dead.

[12:42:14] *** TheNerd_ is now known as TheNerd

[12:48:07] *** andybe has joined #haiku

[12:48:18] <PoissonPilote> Technix > Isn't gcc 2.95 the recommended one for building Be OS apps ?

[12:48:50] <Technix> at the moment, but I believe the devs aim to make 4.x usable in that regard

[12:48:51] *** HeTo- has joined #haiku

[12:49:58] *** HeTo has quit IRC

[13:00:42] *** nibble has joined #haiku

[13:00:43] *** PoissonPilote has quit IRC

[13:15:21] *** procton_ has joined #haiku

[13:18:09] *** procton has quit IRC

[13:18:45] *** rdmr has quit IRC

[13:21:08] *** _Megaf has joined #Haiku

[13:23:01] *** DocPheniX has joined #haiku

[13:23:27] *** rdmr has joined #haiku

[13:23:31] *** inseculous has joined #haiku

[13:27:30] *** JBurton has quit IRC

[13:27:35] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku

[13:32:37] *** rdmr_ has joined #haiku

[13:42:00] *** docphnx has quit IRC

[13:45:33] *** DeadYak has quit IRC

[13:49:36] *** rdmr has quit IRC

[13:50:32] *** SprMa has quit IRC

[13:51:16] *** inseculous has quit IRC

[14:04:35] *** bSON has joined #haiku

[14:08:34] *** rdmr_ is now known as rdmr

[14:17:57] *** dchis has joined #haiku

[14:31:10] *** Begasus has joined #haiku

[14:32:11] *** TuneTracker has joined #Haiku

[14:32:15] <Begasus> 'lo peeps

[14:32:25] <Begasus> hi Dane ;)

[14:32:26] <TuneTracker> 'lo Beeps

[14:34:50] <Technix> hi all

[14:41:56] <TuneTracker> Howdy Technix Long time!

[14:42:19] <TuneTracker> I was happy to see you back to writing articles again.

[14:43:46] *** Poisson_Pilote has joined #haiku

[14:57:36] *** rdmr has quit IRC

[14:58:21] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku

[15:03:02] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku

[15:09:57] <CIA-34> mmu_man * r24981 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/benchmarks/libMicro/config_libmicro.h: Fix warning on extra token.

[15:13:35] *** Wiss has joined #haiku

[15:20:03] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC

[15:21:32] *** mmlr has joined #haiku

[15:21:50] *** cherry` has joined #haiku

[15:22:23] <mmlr> DeadYak: have you already started porting over one of the fs to the new fs api?

[15:22:39] <mmlr> or anyone else for that matter?

[15:26:11] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC

[15:27:37] *** DeadYak has quit IRC

[15:31:01] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku

[15:31:01] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man

[15:31:39] *** cherry`` has quit IRC

[15:38:54] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku

[15:40:30] <Technix> sigh... This so much reminds me of my girl: http://sunshinegirl.canoe.ca/Wednesday/2008/04/16/girl.jpg

[15:42:43] <Poisson_Pilote> Why, does she always wear her jackets like that ?

[15:44:23] <Technix> something like that, just the attitude overall.

[15:44:28] <Technix> reminds me

[15:45:26] <mmlr> DeadYak: have you already started porting over one of the fs to the new fs api?

[15:46:21] *** absabs has quit IRC

[15:53:06] <stpere> morning

[15:57:07] *** dchis has quit IRC

[15:57:24] *** duaneb has joined #haiku

[15:59:11] <duaneb> woot

[15:59:20] <duaneb> my mouse and keyboard still don't work..

[15:59:47] <mmlr> duaneb: and that's a good thing?

[15:59:48] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku

[16:00:03] <duaneb> mmlr, not really

[16:00:14] <duaneb> woot because it booted

[16:00:19] <mmlr> ah ;-)

[16:00:56] <mmlr> not working because of missing OHCI or a PS/2 problem?

[16:01:03] <duaneb> I dunno

[16:01:19] <duaneb> well, it works if I jiggle the mouse back and forth as the terminal comes up

[16:01:31] <duaneb> but after a minute or so of usage, the mouse disappears

[16:01:34] *** daste has joined #haiku

[16:01:37] <duaneb> just vanishes

[16:01:44] <duaneb> and my keyboard stops responding

[16:01:48] <mmlr> USB or PS/2 attached?

[16:02:20] <duaneb> mmlr, well it's USB, but my BIOS might be emulating PS2

[16:02:52] <duaneb> I'd bet that the input server crashed, but I can't check because I have no input >.<

[16:02:59] <duaneb> though I can call up KDL...

[16:03:07] <mmlr> hmm

[16:03:33] <duaneb> is the firefox package supposed to work? :P

[16:03:38] <mmlr> and can you type in KDL

[16:03:39] *** Stargater has joined #haiku

[16:03:40] <Stargater> rer

[16:03:56] <mmlr> yes, it works fine for me

[16:04:18] <mmlr> the AddOptionalPackage Firefox that is

[16:04:23] <duaneb> mmlr, yes

[16:04:33] <duaneb> mmlr, it gives me a bunch of missing libraries

[16:04:38] <duaneb> and it's not in my PATH >.<

[16:04:40] <Stargater> hi mmlr

[16:04:44] <mmlr> hi Stargater

[16:05:26] <mmlr> duaneb: if you can type inside KDL then your BIOS is emulating PS/2

[16:05:46] <mmlr> duaneb: because otherwise usb_hid would be used and that cannot work inside KDL

[16:05:56] <duaneb> libmozjs.so, libxpcom.so, libxpcom_core.so, libplds4.so, libplc4.so, libnspr4.so, libsmime3.so, libssl3.so, libnss3.so, libsoftokn3.so, and libxpcom_compat.so

[16:06:01] <duaneb> huh

[16:06:11] <duaneb> mmlr, how can I debug this sucker without input?

[16:06:29] <AlienSoldier> timed script?

[16:06:30] <mmlr> duaneb: well first check if you can type after entering KDL using F12

[16:06:42] <duaneb> mmlr, I can

[16:06:50] <duaneb> believe me, I played hangman for like half an hour

[16:06:57] <mmlr> ;-)

[16:07:29] <mmlr> then you could add a sleep 20 or so and a shutdown -r inside the bootscript so you can later on check the syslog

[16:07:48] <duaneb> ok, I'll try that

[16:08:00] <duaneb> but, erm, how can I mount a befs partition on my linux box?

[16:08:15] <mmlr> you should be able to mount it read only

[16:08:26] <mmlr> there is a read only bfs driver in linux

[16:08:39] <duaneb> ok

[16:08:49] <duaneb> wait, but how does jam populate the image then?

[16:08:54] <mmlr> otherwise there's the bfs_shell from the buildtools

[16:09:15] <mmlr> exactly, with the bfs_shell

[16:09:34] <duaneb> ok

[16:09:39] <duaneb> I'll look into that

[16:09:53] <duaneb> does that have a userspace filesystem driver or something?

[16:10:09] <mmlr> that I don't know

[16:10:52] <DeadYak> mmlr: sorry, at work...I started looking at fat, but haven't had too much time to devote to it as of yet

[16:12:13] <mmlr> DeadYak: because I just wanted to start with fat

[16:12:41] <mmlr> DeadYak: if you don't mind that is

[16:13:01] <DeadYak> mmlr: that's fine :)

[16:13:05] <DeadYak> mmlr: I can look at iso9660 instead

[16:13:13] *** wildur has joined #Haiku

[16:13:42] <mmlr> DeadYak: that'd be nice - I'd like to get fat working first because of USB devices and flash chips and the like

[16:13:49] <DeadYak> figured as much :)

[16:13:57] <DeadYak> go ahead

[16:14:09] <mmlr> will do, hope it doesn't get too messy

[16:14:15] <duaneb> no fat support? :/

[16:14:24] <DeadYak> shouldn't, you have Ingo's doc on what all needs to be changed right?

[16:14:25] <mmlr> duaneb: temporarily

[16:14:31] <DeadYak> duaneb: VFS layer changes broke every FS other than BFS

[16:14:46] <mmlr> yeah, that guide should get me through

[16:14:58] <mmlr> but the fat code is not really that clean...

[16:15:03] <DeadYak> no, no it isn't :/

[16:15:13] <duaneb> where IS bfs_shell?

[16:15:19] <DeadYak> src/tools I think

[16:15:28] <duaneb> all I can find is generated object files which, I presume, are for the target system

[16:15:46] <mmlr> there's generated/objects/linux when you're on linux

[16:15:57] <mmlr> those directories contain the host compiled bfs_shell

[16:15:57] <DeadYak> I was going to say, there's separate subdirs under generated for host and target

[16:16:28] <AlienSoldier> fat would be a good GSoC project

[16:16:29] <mmlr> duaneb: should be like ./generated/objects/bone/x86/release/tools/bfs_shell/bfs_shell

[16:16:42] <mmlr> where bone is linux in your case ;-)

[16:16:53] <duaneb> uhhh... yep, thanks

[16:17:21] <mmlr> not that I'd really know how to use the bfs_shell though

[16:17:58] <mmlr> AlienSoldier: well fat is supported, it's just that it needs porting to the recent VFS changes - and should be cleaned up a bit

[16:18:39] <AlienSoldier> mmlr you mean there is an open one for R5?

[16:18:55] <DeadYak> AlienSoldier: we've had a FAT driver for ages :)

[16:18:56] <mmlr> AlienSoldier: yes it was sample code

[16:19:14] <AlienSoldier> you mean so it's the same as Be inc one?

[16:19:27] <AlienSoldier> because i have compatibility problem with that one

[16:19:43] <mmlr> it should be

[16:20:00] <mmlr> was adapted to the Haiku fs api (which changed) though

[16:20:09] <DeadYak> it might have some things fixed compared to the Be one

[16:20:44] <AlienSoldier> ok, then it could be interesting to have it proof read by someone that already made such a driver to see what part is not standard

[16:21:11] <AlienSoldier> not that it's that bad, only have a creative mp3 player getting problem with it

[16:21:45] <mmlr> I also got some issues with that fat fs actually

[16:21:49] *** absabs has joined #haiku

[16:22:17] <mmlr> like if I write some file to it from BeOS it works fine, but if I put that memory stick into like the PS3 then it doesn't see those files

[16:22:35] <mmlr> while remounting under BeOS perfectly shows them again

[16:22:54] <AlienSoldier> it work ok as a usb key, but if i activate the player and file transfered from beos are present, the player just delete them

[16:23:20] <mmlr> could be a similar issue then

[16:23:48] <DeadYak> I might be wrong but I think it has to do with it not handling certain FAT block sizes properly

[16:23:54] <AlienSoldier> perhaps some checksum mechanism unimplemented

[16:24:28] <DeadYak> iirc FAT can be anywhere between 2 and 64KB blocks

[16:24:38] <duaneb> what's the status of the ext2 driver?

[16:24:40] <DeadYak> "clusters" I should say.

[16:24:51] <DeadYak> duaneb: it's a read-only driver, and it's broken in the same way the others are currently

[16:25:49] <duaneb> #@^!@

[16:25:55] <duaneb> why can't I use bfs_shell?!?

[16:26:10] <duaneb> I gave it a (correct) offset, and it gave me:

[16:26:24] <duaneb> bfs: invalid super block!

[16:26:25] <duaneb> bfs: bfs_mount:120: Invalid argument

[16:26:25] <duaneb> Error: Mounting FS failed: Invalid argument

[16:26:52] <mmlr> are you trying to access an image or a partition?

[16:27:24] <duaneb> a partition

[16:27:27] <DeadYak> umm

[16:27:36] <mmlr> then you shouldn't need the offset

[16:27:37] <DeadYak> you're doing bfs_shell /dev/sdax ?

[16:27:46] <DeadYak> for a partition that's all that's needed

[16:28:12] *** mmu_man has quit IRC

[16:28:46] <duaneb> ok

[16:29:09] <DeadYak> root@leviathan:/home/rene/develop/haiku/trunk/generated/objects/linux/x86/release/tools/bfs_shell# LD_LIBRARY_PATH=../../../../lib ./bfs_shell /dev/sda6

[16:29:09] <DeadYak> bfs: mounted "Data" (root node at 524288, device = /dev/sda6)

[16:29:10] <DeadYak> fssh:/>

[16:29:18] <duaneb> when it was building, it spat out "partition offset: #"

[16:29:26] <duaneb> ok

[16:29:44] <DeadYak> yeah, that's a byte offset on the disk itself iirc

[16:30:08] <mmlr> yes, that's the offset that is written into the boot code to make the partition bootable

[16:30:35] <duaneb> oh,  I see

[16:30:40] <duaneb> makes sense

[16:30:53] <duaneb> I wasn't aware that the build util was aware that /dev/sda1 was a partition

[16:31:17] <mmlr> it needs to be to write proper boot code

[16:31:25] <DeadYak> duaneb: now you know :)

[16:32:41] <mmlr> duaneb: once in the bfs_shell you can use "cp myfs/var/log/syslog :./" to get the syslog out of the bfs partition and into ./

[16:33:02] <duaneb> ok

[16:33:03] <duaneb> thanks

[16:33:07] <duaneb> I'll be back

[16:34:32] <stpere> did I said morning yet? :)

[16:34:33] *** duaneb has quit IRC

[16:34:37] <stpere> lost track :)

[16:34:41] <DeadYak> morning :)

[16:35:02] * stpere is doing a wizard for the shop here

[16:35:05] <stpere> fun.. :)

[16:39:39] *** Wiss has quit IRC

[16:40:42] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku

[16:41:54] *** duaneb has joined #haiku

[16:42:02] <duaneb> ok, here's my syslog:

[16:42:05] <duaneb> http://pasteall.com/view.php?p=82

[16:43:49] * duaneb sighs

[16:43:56] <duaneb> network was working, too

[16:43:59] <duaneb> I got a ping from google!

[16:44:17] <duaneb> (of course I pinged them back, what kind of scoundrel do you think I am?)

[16:50:13] *** tqh has joined #haiku

[16:50:32] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC

[16:56:00] <mmlr> duaneb: well that's an OHCI controller which won't work as there's currently no driver available

[16:57:18] <mmlr> also it seems that the ehci controller is not properly configured which is entirely possible as resource assignment is a missing feature in our kernel

[16:57:32] <duaneb> figures

[16:58:05] <duaneb> can I configure my haiku to not take rest control from the bios?

[16:58:09] *** docphnx has joined #haiku

[16:58:39] <mmlr> it doesn't take over the controller

[16:58:52] <mmlr> so it's not usb that interferes with things

[16:59:19] <mmlr> it's a problem with the ps/2 bus_manager from the looks of it

[16:59:42] <mmlr> it seems not to be able to correctly communicate with the emulated ps/2 devices

[16:59:51] *** DocPheniX has quit IRC

[16:59:54] *** ozy` has quit IRC

[17:00:40] <duaneb> mmlr, that time I couldn't use my mouse

[17:00:50] <duaneb> so I don't think it was emulating

[17:01:03] <mmlr> that error output from ehci comes from the enumeration process, it doesn't touch the controller at all when it prints that

[17:01:10] *** DocPheniX has joined #haiku

[17:01:10] *** ozy` has joined #haiku

[17:01:27] <duaneb> hmm

[17:01:31] <mmlr> and since ohci is not present at all, it cannot touch the controllers either

[17:01:32] <duaneb> should I make a ticket?

[17:01:39] <mmlr> there are a few already

[17:03:55] <duaneb> mmlr, thanks

[17:04:10] <mmlr> there's bug 155, 1580, 1726 and 1891

[17:04:13] *** Nutela has joined #haiku

[17:04:21] <mmlr> you should check which one fits the best and add a comment to that

[17:04:22] <Nutela> Hi guys long time no see!

[17:04:35] <Nutela> Hi mmlr just testing the new usb :-)

[17:05:02] <duaneb> Nutela, eat my death rays

[17:05:20] <duaneb> santa didn't give me usb support this year....

[17:05:47] <mmlr> Nutela: good, hope it works out

[17:05:51] <Nutela> forgot that I had defined TRACE and TRACE_USB_RAW and wondered why USB didn't work at all when I jammed it (got loads of warning as well)

[17:06:10] <Nutela> thanks for all the work mmlr

[17:06:36] <Nutela> did you look at #1949?

[17:07:43] <Nutela> I thought it would be really neat to have this wireless usb keyb and mouse working but I guess I'll buy myself an extra keyb, the usb_hid must be complicated + 2 devices sharing one receiver..

[17:07:44] <mmlr> well, it doesn't look like anything is wrong from the syslog

[17:08:07] <mmlr> hmm

[17:08:08] <Nutela> the usb info ouput might be more interesting

[17:08:17] <mmlr> so it's one receiver but two devices?

[17:08:24] <Nutela> anyway don't bother when you don't fgee

[17:08:27] <Nutela> feel like it

[17:08:30] <Nutela> yes

[17:08:37] <mmlr> didn't realize that yet ;-)

[17:08:38] <Nutela> and only keyboard works

[17:09:08] <Nutela> btw I came to ask how to let svn overwrite locally modified files

[17:09:34] <Nutela> hmm I guess I'll remove them

[17:09:38] <DeadYak> svn revert

[17:09:43] <Nutela> thanks

[17:09:51] <mmlr> ah, now I get it

[17:10:12] <mmlr> those two interfaces are 3,1,1 -> keyboard and 3,1,2 for the mouse

[17:10:32] <mmlr> not like to two interfaces I got here for "boot mode" and "enhanced mode"

[17:11:51] <mmlr> Nutela: yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all, usb_hid will just pick up the first interface it finds

[17:12:02] <Nutela> k

[17:12:03] <mmlr> so don't buy another keyboard

[17:12:16] <mmlr> it wouldn't pick up the mouse anyway as it's the second interface

[17:12:20] <Nutela> well sticky keys...

[17:12:31] <mmlr> ah

[17:12:38] <Nutela> the mouse is the best from the 2 :-/

[17:12:50] <Nutela> sticky key problem

[17:13:01] <Nutela> sw problem

[17:13:09] <Nutela> see #1203

[17:13:27] *** _Megaf is now known as Megaf_

[17:13:28] <Nutela> as well

[17:15:16] <mmlr> Nutela: I see you're using this over a hub?

[17:15:27] <mmlr> Nutela: or does the receiver come with a hub built in?

[17:15:47] <Nutela> 2nd 1

[17:15:56] <Nutela> (on the phone)

[17:16:16] *** Ingenu has quit IRC

[17:16:50] *** duaneb has quit IRC

[17:16:51] <mmlr> I see you've done a usb_dev_info /dev/bus/usb/0/1/0

[17:17:14] *** DocPheniX has quit IRC

[17:17:16] <mmlr> where 0 is the roothub, 1 is the other hub and 0 is the device

[17:17:30] <mmlr> is it possible that there are other devices below the 1?

[17:17:49] <mmlr> at least /dev/bus/usb/0/1/hub should be present

[17:18:03] <mmlr> would be nice if you could get a dev info off all of them

[17:18:06] <Nutela> there is no hub mmlr

[17:18:30] <mmlr> there is, it's probably just built into the receiver

[17:18:49] <Nutela> yes i meant beside that

[17:18:59] * Nutela is still on the phone sorry

[17:22:21] *** mats has joined #haiku

[17:23:18] <Nutela> mmlr maybe do a usb_dev_info `ls -R /dev/bus/usb` ?

[17:23:20] *** Poisson_Pilote has quit IRC

[17:23:43] *** Duaneb has joined #haiku

[17:23:54] <Duaneb> mmlr: ok, it's working now

[17:24:04] <mmlr> Nutela: that's not going to work though

[17:24:07] <Duaneb> I enabled VESA and disabled BIOS calls

[17:24:14] <Duaneb> mmlr: not really sure which one did it

[17:24:42] <mmlr> Nutela: but you can do an ls -R and then do an usb_dev_info on each of the entries

[17:24:46] *** Poisson_Pilote has joined #haiku

[17:25:23] <HeTo-> or find /dev/bus/usb -type f -exec usb_dev_info \{\} \;

[17:25:59] <Nutela> thanks

[17:26:13] <CIA-34> laplace * r24982 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/AboutSystem.cpp: Added David Dengg to list of contributores for providing the initial version of bootman boot loader. Thank you!

[17:26:14] *** Duaneb has quit IRC

[17:27:00] <Nutela> shall I upload that to pastebin then mmlr?

[17:27:15] <mmlr> better attach it to the bug I'd say

[17:27:38] <mmlr> HeTo-: or for DEVICE in `find /dev/bus/usb`; do usb_dev_info $DEVICE; done ;-)

[17:27:45] *** duaneb has joined #haiku

[17:27:55] <duaneb> mmlr, scratch that

[17:28:02] <duaneb> mmlr, it crashed soon enough :P

[17:28:19] <Nutela> hmm if I had jammed all stuff usb first and then ah didn't do svn up

[17:28:24] <Nutela> srry

[17:28:27] <mmlr> actually I think the "don't call bios" thing is currently not respected

[17:28:37] <Nutela> ok

[17:29:01] <mmlr> duaneb: also the vesa mode shouldn't influence that

[17:29:13] <Nutela> I'll attached the stuff from the for loop. Btw I love these bash abilities, bye bye MS win

[17:29:57] <mmlr> duaneb: what you could try is disabling options like "PnP aware OS" or "Plug and Play OS installed" in your BIOS

[17:30:01] <Nutela> so how many hours do you put into Haiku mmlr say per week?

[17:30:28] <duaneb> mmlr, well, there's a chance the video mode might inspire a crash

[17:30:39] <duaneb> mmlr, my bios is so limited... :P

[17:30:40] <mmlr> Nutela: that entirely depends on time available, motiviation and current project

[17:31:10] <mmlr> Nutela: currently I've taken holidays so I invest some more time that otherwise

[17:31:16] *** koki_haiku has joined #haiku

[17:31:19] <mmlr> duaneb: that sucks of course

[17:31:24] * Nutela thinks about buying mmlr some motivation points ;-)

[17:31:39] <Nutela> don't do that

[17:31:47] <koki_haiku> good morning folks

[17:31:49] <Nutela> go outside! it is spring

[17:31:56] <Nutela> Hi koki_haiku

[17:31:57] <mmlr> hi koki_haiku

[17:32:02] <Begasus> hi koki_haiku

[17:32:06] <HeTo-> hi koki_haiku

[17:32:21] <DeadYak> hi koki_haiku

[17:32:25] <koki_haiku> hi all :)

[17:32:37] <mmlr> Nutela: I like investing time in haiku - it's an interesting hobby you know

[17:32:45] <duaneb> mmlr, how would I debug a freeze?

[17:32:46] <HeTo-> it seems ipro100 is causing the slowdown I reported yesterday

[17:32:48] <mmlr> Nutela: by the way it is still pretty could around here

[17:33:01] <Nutela> for i in `cat chat-list`; do echo Hi koki; done

[17:33:04] <mmlr> cold*

[17:33:10] <duaneb> it won't be logged to syslog or traceable via KDL

[17:33:34] <mmlr> duaneb: a freeze where you still can enter KDL?

[17:33:40] <duaneb> mmlr, yea

[17:33:47] <duaneb> it's an app-server freeze or something

[17:33:50] <Nutela> spring made me forget Haiku for at least a couple of days if not a week

[17:33:51] *** Stargater has quit IRC

[17:34:02] <duaneb> no input, and the tracker's CPU levels never change.

[17:34:04] <mmlr> duaneb: then enumerate the currently running threads with the "running" command

[17:34:12] <duaneb> ok

[17:34:18] <duaneb> I'll take a picture or something...

[17:34:27] <mmlr> duaneb: and do an sc for each of the thread numbers

[17:34:37] <duaneb> also, random thing, but how can I change the default screen resolution? :P

[17:34:38] <mmlr> duaneb: maybe it is stuck in an endless loop somewhere

[17:34:46] <duaneb> mmlr, ok

[17:34:57] <mmlr> duaneb: through the Screen preflet of course

[17:35:30] <duaneb> mmlr, I mean for a default build

[17:35:45] <mmlr> you can't

[17:36:06] <mmlr> it's based on the mode list your card or your mointor gives

[17:36:19] <mmlr> which is either vesa resolutions or edid info

[17:36:31] <mmlr> you'd have to hack the routine that picks the mode

[17:37:05] <duaneb> >.<

[17:37:53] <Nutela> btw is it possible to say grep std_err?

[17:38:16] <Nutela> like $ gcc blah 2| grep error ?

[17:38:30] <mmlr> you could probably redirect stderr somehow

[17:38:37] <HeTo-> Nutela: I think csh had that feature

[17:38:47] <Nutela> hmm

[17:39:16] <Nutela> I can think of lots of uses, why isn't this implemented in bash.... ?

[17:39:21] <Nutela> strange

[17:39:51] <mmlr> you can redirect stderr, but I wouldn't know the exact procedure

[17:39:52] *** koki_haiku has quit IRC

[17:40:08] <duaneb> Nutela, gcc 2>&1 | grep error

[17:40:18] <mmlr> that's what I meant ;-)

[17:40:22] <duaneb> err, scratch that

[17:40:23] <smtms> that shouldn't work

[17:40:29] <duaneb> it doesn't :P

[17:40:48] <DeadYak> gcc blah 2> errors;  grep whatever blah

[17:40:58] <smtms> gcc |& grep should redirect both stdout and stderr into the pipe, on csh and zsh at least

[17:40:59] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku

[17:41:20] <duaneb> csh :P

[17:41:38] *** {V}afk is now known as {V}

[17:41:39] <Begasus> hi Teknomancer ;)

[17:41:42] <Nutela> thanks

[17:41:48] <duaneb> DeadYak, where the second blah is errors?

[17:41:49] <plfiorini> gcc 2>&1 |

[17:42:01] <DeadYak> duaneb: um...yeah.

[17:42:04] <Teknomancer> hi Begasus !

[17:42:09] <DeadYak> duaneb: too early in the morning :)

[17:42:10] *** koki_haiku has joined #haiku

[17:42:11] <smtms> plfiorini, do you know what dup/dup2 do?

[17:42:28] <HeTo-> X -help 2>&1 | grep version works here at least, with bash 3.2.25(1) on linux

[17:42:29] *** Megaf_ is now known as _Megaf

[17:42:34] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku

[17:42:52] <HeTo-> although you can't make the difference between stderr and stdout then

[17:43:17] <Nutela> exactly HeTo-

[17:43:48] <Nutela> we need a 0| and 2| ;-)

[17:44:06] <smtms> what is 0| supposed to do?

[17:45:03] <Nutela> redirect std_in  ;-)

[17:45:55] <smtms> Nutela, what's written on stdin by the first process can be read on stdin by the second?

[17:47:02] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku

[17:47:05] *** smooki has joined #haiku

[17:47:20] <smooki> hiya ^^people^^

[17:47:49] <Nutela> uh what smtms? let's leave it at 2| :-)

[17:48:27] <Nutela> hmm jam "can't find 1 target" should I bother with that?

[17:49:04] *** aroman has joined #haiku

[17:49:27] <aroman> morning all

[17:49:28] <Technix> ah yea.... answer the door, one of my colleagues is there with one of our clients who have a new server... "Follow that guy", hehe.. I get to play with new metal

[17:49:32] <Technix> schwing

[17:50:23] <Nutela> :-)

[17:50:49] <smooki> I dream of a haiku / atom workstation :)

[17:50:50] <Begasus> don't burn it Technix ;)

[17:50:51] * Technix works as a large ISP... :)

[17:50:55] <Technix> at*

[17:51:00] <Begasus> LOL

[17:51:05] <Technix> hrm.. tries to imagine being an isp.

[17:51:05] <Nutela> does jam clean in ../trunk do delete all objects?

[17:51:17] <Technix> too many wires sticking out of my body, no good.

[17:51:26] <DeadYak> it should

[17:51:32] <Nutela> welcome to the BORG

[17:51:47] <Nutela> when the BORG hadn't got wifi

[17:52:01] <Nutela> thanks DeadYak as always ;-)

[17:53:03] <DeadYak> np

[17:54:07] <smooki> hey I got original BeosR5 CD, is it better to install it & update or to use the free beos mod ?

[17:55:06] <PulkoMandy> +++

[17:55:13] *** Poisson_Pilote has quit IRC

[17:55:14] <Technix> I lean towards.... BeOS R5

[17:55:19] *** luroh has joined #haiku

[17:55:27] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC

[17:56:28] *** Poisson_Pilote has joined #haiku

[17:57:04] <{V}> I'd say, if you can install and boot the original R5 cd, use that. If you can't use one of the hacked/patched/whatever free R5 distro's

[17:57:40] <smooki> k

[17:57:42] <{V}> smooki, "haiku / atom workstation" atom.. as in the cpu?

[17:57:50] <smooki> yes {V}

[17:58:24] <smooki> I think haiku can bright on "small pc"

[17:58:59] <AlienSoldier> atom is not just for small btw, it's like a "container"

[17:59:45] *** treohelf has joined #haiku

[17:59:59] <treohelf> hiiii

[18:00:07] <treohelf> the Pope is here!

[18:00:11] <Nutela> DeadYak : so does a svn revert file revert all changes AND update to latest version?

[18:00:23] <treohelf> POPEMOBILE!

[18:00:41] <AlienSoldier> don't shoot the pope, it give no point

[18:00:43] *** treohelf has quit IRC

[18:01:00] <mmlr> Nutela: no, svn revert just reverts your changes so that it can cleanly be updated

[18:01:01] <plfiorini> the pope shot him

[18:01:10] <Nutela> container for quarks and what not ;-)

[18:01:31] <Nutela> well that sucks because it didn't do that

[18:01:40] <mmlr> what did you try?

[18:02:13] *** _Megaf is now known as Megaf_

[18:02:38] <Nutela> first did svn up jammed usb noticed it didn't work at all, did svn stat, reverted all files with 'M' svn up and svn up didn't show anything (like U) for the files which had been previously modified

[18:02:40] <duaneb> mmlr, any estimation on when OHCI will be implemented?

[18:03:14] <mmlr> duaneb: during the summer probably, it might be a GSoC project

[18:03:49] <mmlr> Nutela: well if they are already up to date then it won't update them again

[18:04:13] <mmlr> Nutela: probably you had changes when you updated that got merged with the new revision

[18:04:18] <Nutela> I doubt they were, you have recently made changes to usb_raw.cpp for example

[18:04:40] <mmlr> what does svn stat now tell about the files in question?

[18:04:48] <Nutela> ok I'll jam it again (have made a script from your howto)

[18:04:58] * Nutela : called usbscript ;-)

[18:05:06] <Nutela> nothing

[18:05:12] <Nutela> no mention

[18:05:22] <mmlr> what files exactly?

[18:05:28] <Nutela> btw what does ~ mean?

[18:05:51] <Nutela> I had defined TRACE and TRACE_USB_RAW

[18:05:54] <duaneb> Nutela, home directory?

[18:05:56] <duaneb> tilde?

[18:06:01] <duaneb> around/about?

[18:06:09] <stpere> desctructor?

[18:06:11] <Nutela> in: # haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/usb/usb.cpp  (modified)  (3 diffs)

[18:06:12] <Nutela> #

[18:06:12] <Nutela> haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/usb/usb_p.h (modified) (1 diff)

[18:06:12] <Nutela> #

[18:06:12] <Nutela> haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/bus/usb/usb_raw.cpp (modified) (2 diffs)

[18:06:26] <Nutela> I think

[18:06:46] <Nutela> svn stat M= modified locally, ~ - ?

[18:06:51] <mmlr> '~' versioned item obstructed by some item of a different kind

[18:07:12] <mmlr> like if you had a directory with the same name as a versioned file or a symlink I suppose

[18:07:32] <mmlr> (svn help stat)

[18:07:34] <Nutela> hmm B_NOT_SUPPORTED redefined?

[18:07:44] <Nutela> thanks

[18:07:50] <Nutela> lazy :-)

[18:07:51] <mmlr> building for beos?

[18:08:08] *** plfiorini has quit IRC

[18:08:18] <Nutela> yes

[18:08:42] <mmlr> that's normal

[18:08:43] *** Monni has quit IRC

[18:09:00] <mmlr> it tells you that it was defined by a haiku header and then redefined for compatibility

[18:09:07] *** Monni has joined #Haiku

[18:11:45] <Nutela> usb doesn't seem to work, the only life I can see is the wacom led turning from blue to green when I set the pen on it's surface

[18:12:08] <Nutela> ah ok

[18:12:42] <Nutela> I still don't believe those files have been updated

[18:12:55] <mmlr> you can go into that directory and then do a svn info

[18:12:56] *** ProNoob has joined #haiku

[18:13:04] <mmlr> it shows you what revision the dir has

[18:13:26] <mmlr> or do it for individual files like svn info src/bla

[18:13:29] <Nutela> ok thanks

[18:14:01] <Nutela> btw is it normal that sound gets choppy when one uses the BIOS USB emulation?

[18:14:15] <mmlr> it shouldn't

[18:14:18] <Nutela> i mean only with usb transfers

[18:14:30] <Nutela> ok I'll nag Korli again :-)

[18:14:58] <mmlr> if you're sure that you're not using the usb stack then it is either the ps/2 driver or the bios

[18:15:24] <mmlr> interrupt lags most probably that hinder the audio interrupts to work properly

[18:15:30] <mmlr> might be off here though

[18:15:38] *** cps1966 has quit IRC

[18:16:44] *** nibble\away has joined #haiku

[18:19:23] <Nutela> ok well I see the svn info gives sane results

[18:20:29] *** {V} has quit IRC

[18:20:29] <mmlr> do you have a syslog of a boot with the current stack?

[18:20:31] <Nutela> giving your latest change for usb = 24947

[18:20:36] *** {V} has joined #haiku

[18:21:00] <mmlr> you could check for "usb_uhci: successfully..." and "usb_ehci: successfully..."

[18:21:07] <mmlr> just to be sure you have the latest

[18:21:29] <Nutela> seems so

[18:21:47] <Nutela> it's date is from a couple of minutes ago

[18:22:02] <mmlr> that's obviously the case as you've just built it

[18:23:25] <Nutela> yeah says so but I can;t tell which boot that was...

[18:23:39] <Nutela> syslog?

[18:23:49] <Nutela> I have it turned on always

[18:24:00] <mmlr> it was only added a couple hours ago so it's pretty safe you got the latest

[18:25:02] <mmlr> Nutela: let me just check that my initialization order patch didn't mess with beos compatibility

[18:26:04] *** treohelf has joined #haiku

[18:26:09] <treohelf> back

[18:26:12] <Nutela> sure

[18:26:26] <treohelf> :))

[18:26:35] <treohelf> hey nutela

[18:26:37] <Nutela> helf?

[18:26:44] <Nutela> ha same time!

[18:28:37] <Nutela> how are you treohelf? still using archaic devices? ;-)

[18:29:04] *** nils_1 has joined #haiku

[18:29:43] <treohelf> yep :P

[18:29:44] <treohelf> tho ive gotten rid of most of them

[18:30:13] <Nutela> mmlr : I deleted the syslog and yes it is really saying usb_uhci successfully started the controller

[18:30:18] <Nutela> for this boot

[18:30:21] *** burfi has joined #haiku

[18:30:37] <Nutela> wow, without asking me first? ;-) helf

[18:31:00] <Nutela> so what did you disspose of, leaving out the rx7 that is ;-)

[18:31:18] <mmlr> Nutela: current stack works fine on r5 bone over here

[18:31:26] <Nutela> netserver here

[18:31:33] <mmlr> shouldn't matter

[18:31:33] <Nutela> strange

[18:31:41] <treohelf> everything but my NEXT..basically

[18:31:43] <mmlr> so you're stuck at the same place as before

[18:31:46] <treohelf> NeXT

[18:31:53] <Nutela> no at least it boots :-)

[18:32:11] <mmlr> Nutela: aha, so it's just not working?

[18:32:12] <Nutela> and it's actually worse ;-)

[18:32:18] <Nutela> yeah

[18:32:33] <mmlr> what happens? anything relevant in syslog?

[18:32:36] * Nutela is getting confused by using 2 keyboards and computers

[18:32:54] <Nutela> erm how should I know hehe

[18:32:59] <Nutela> ill check

[18:33:24] <Nutela> hmm get data output buffer empty

[18:33:50] *** nibble has quit IRC

[18:34:21] <Nutela> hmm have also ps2 connected mouse and keyboard is confusing me here in the syslog

[18:34:34] <treohelf> i might sell my NeXT

[18:35:02] *** dchis has joined #haiku

[18:35:21] <Nutela> input_server clone_area() error?

[18:35:45] <Nutela> treohelf : what do you do with the NeXT anyway?

[18:35:59] <Nutela> do you have the intel risc with it|

[18:36:01] <Nutela> ?

[18:36:12] <treohelf> everything other than movies

[18:36:21] <stpere> Nutela: you should try Synergy

[18:36:24] <Nutela> and 3D ;-)

[18:36:25] <treohelf> no. its a 33mhz 040

[18:36:35] <Nutela> what is that stpere

[18:36:37] <AlienSoldier> what is the best NeXT game?

[18:36:47] <Nutela> the amiga ;-)

[18:36:48] <treohelf> heh, i dont do 3D &?(+&(-

[18:36:52] <stpere> it allows you to share a single keyboard and mouse on 2 computers

[18:36:55] <treohelf> *anyways

[18:36:58] <stpere> sharing clipboards too

[18:37:05] <stpere> ctrl+c on one, ctrl+v on the other

[18:37:08] <Nutela> like KVM?

[18:37:13] <stpere> not really

[18:37:16] <stpere> well, in a way yes

[18:37:20] <stpere> but it's software

[18:37:24] <treohelf> alien : nethack, doom, and a few others are good :P

[18:37:30] <Nutela> nah I'm just debugging BeOS and having this irc on a xp machine

[18:37:33] <Nutela> from work

[18:37:36] <stpere> and you can move the mouse cursor from one computer and to the other

[18:37:40] <stpere> oh

[18:37:42] <stpere> hehe

[18:37:44] <stpere> won't work

[18:37:55] <Nutela> see

[18:38:33] <treohelf> i dont use any of my computers that much.. i thought about selling pretty much all of them

[18:40:34] <Nutela> mmlr I see the input_server StartMonitoringDevice input/keyboard/usb and then getting get_data error: output buffer empty ' a couple of times then I see it only uses ps/2 mouse and AT keyboard

[18:42:07] *** duaneb has quit IRC

[18:42:46] <mmlr> Nutela: and that get_data_error comes from the input server?

[18:42:51] <Nutela> yes

[18:42:58] <Nutela> I guess

[18:43:43] <Nutela> also I see some error about calling PnP BIOS and its trying loads of data ports

[18:43:57] <mmlr> that's normal, that's just BeOS

[18:44:02] <Nutela> ok

[18:44:21] <mmlr> have you tried without the ps/2 devices?

[18:44:28] <mmlr> maybe only one device at the time is used?

[18:44:28] <Nutela> not yet

[18:44:36] <Nutela> it worked before

[18:44:39] <Nutela> ill try

[18:45:50] <Nutela> ok that was weird

[18:46:06] <Nutela> I did a sleep 30; shutdown -r

[18:47:07] <Nutela> and right as I hit ctrl-c on the usb keyboard after I had unplugged all ps/2 it exited but still rebooted so I guess I hit ctrl-c exactly after 30s :-)

[18:47:28] *** koki_haiku has quit IRC

[18:47:33] <Nutela> nah no change

[18:47:35] <Nutela> mmlr

[18:48:39] <mmlr> Nutela: well then I'm out of ideas

[18:48:50] <Nutela> I still think svn borked something

[18:49:01] <Nutela> I'll delete the usb stuff and do a svn up

[18:49:02] <mmlr> you could post the syslog somewhere

[18:49:08] <Nutela> ok

[18:49:25] <mmlr> and make extra sure that you don't have any leftovers under /boot/beos/add-ons

[18:49:46] <mmlr> also see that there's no hid driver installed there

[18:50:47] <Nutela> I already deleted everything there IIRC

[18:51:37] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku

[18:51:45] *** koki_haiku has joined #haiku

[18:51:52] *** absabs has quit IRC

[18:52:17] <Nutela> I'll do a for i in `find . -type -f -iname \*usb\*`; do rm "$i"; done ; svn up

[18:53:30] <Nutela> well can't wait for a Haiku beta!

[18:53:37] <HeTo-> find . -type f -iname \*usb\* -print0 | xargs -0 rm; svn up would be more efficient

[18:53:47] <Nutela> LOL

[18:53:48] *** pyCube has joined #haiku

[18:53:49] <Nutela> ok

[18:53:56] <Nutela> have it your way

[18:54:07] <Nutela> why the -print 0?

[18:54:28] <Nutela> I mean are there really going to be \n's in file names??

[18:54:29] <HeTo-> just in case you happen to have spaces or something like that in the file names

[18:55:01] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku

[18:55:29] <HeTo-> even spaces break your command

[18:55:44] <HeTo-> although I do agree that spaces in file names are evil :-P

[18:55:56] <Nutela> ah ok

[18:56:06] <Nutela> also spaces

[18:56:35] <HeTo-> but, well, since that's so easy to do right, why do it wrong (comparing -print | xargs to -print0 | xargs -0)

[18:57:34] <Nutela> Still I'd love to learn a replace char function say for replacing ' ' for _ with a mv or cp command without using a text editor and search and replacing file names

[18:58:21] <Nutela> well tired going to eat something

[18:58:36] <Nutela> thanks HeTo- mmlr DeadYak and all

[18:58:40] <Nutela> bbl

[18:58:47] *** Nutela has quit IRC

[19:03:24] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku

[19:03:34] *** smooki has left #haiku

[19:04:09] <aroman> psystar should make hackbooks :P

[19:05:18] *** Wiss has joined #haiku

[19:06:45] <urnenfeld> anybody knows if they ship to Europe ?

[19:07:22] *** Korli has joined #haiku

[19:07:33] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Korli

[19:08:10] <Korli> evening

[19:08:53] *** duaneb has joined #haiku

[19:09:06] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC

[19:09:06] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666

[19:10:02] *** pyCube has quit IRC

[19:11:01] *** burfi has left #haiku

[19:11:11] <DeadYak> hi Korli

[19:11:44] <CIA-34> stippi * r24983 /haiku/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs):

[19:11:44] <CIA-34> Applied patch by Artur Wyszynski:

[19:11:44] <CIA-34> * Renamed BView::Alignment() to LayoutAlignment() which fixes a ton of warnings

[19:11:44] <CIA-34>  and some conflicts with BControls.

[19:11:44] <CIA-34> * Added virtual destructor to BRefFilter in case the GCC version is 3 or newer

[19:11:44] <CIA-34>  (can't do it for GCC 2.95.3, since that would break binary compatibility

[19:11:48] <CIA-34>  AFAIKT)

[19:12:07] <Teknomancer> g'nite all

[19:12:13] <Korli> hi DeadYak

[19:12:18] *** Teknomancer has left #haiku

[19:12:33] <Korli> DeadYak what's up ?

[19:12:37] <DeadYak> not much, yourself?

[19:12:55] <duaneb> My IRQ worked, bitcheS!

[19:13:00] <duaneb> just in case y'all cared :P

[19:13:17] <Korli> neither

[19:14:01] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku

[19:14:09] *** Euver has joined #haiku

[19:14:45] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku

[19:14:45] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man

[19:15:01] * DeadYak plops mmu_man

[19:15:53] *** treohelf has quit IRC

[19:16:34] <duaneb> does bochs have virtualization?

[19:16:42] <DeadYak> not that I know of

[19:16:48] <DeadYak> bochs is pure emulation afaik

[19:16:56] <duaneb> :(

[19:18:11] <duaneb> any plans for a linux-style tty thing?

[19:18:18] <duaneb> like what you get when you boot up in safe mode.

[19:18:33] <duaneb> It'd be great for debugging when, oh, the app-server freezes

[19:19:32] <DeadYak> what you get when you boot up in safe mode is a pseudo app_server

[19:19:35] <mmu_man> plop

[19:19:39] <DeadYak> there's no real intent for Haiku to have a CLI mode

[19:21:27] <duaneb> DeadYak, it'd be the only operating system I know of, aside from perhaps menuetos, that doesn't have that... :/

[19:21:34] <DeadYak> uhh

[19:21:36] <DeadYak> Windows?

[19:21:43] <duaneb> DeadYak, that has a dos prompt

[19:21:50] <Monni> Windows isn't an operating system ;)

[19:21:53] <DeadYak> besides

[19:21:59] <ProNoob> hmm, will haiku support hardware 3d acceleration of modern graphics cards ?

[19:22:00] <DeadYak> everyone else has it, so we should too isn't imo a good reason

[19:22:03] <duaneb> DeadYak, I also wouldn't compare Haiku to windows. It's not very becoming.

[19:22:11] <duaneb> DeadYak, how about functionality?

[19:22:17] <duaneb> can you think of a good reason *not* to?

[19:22:22] <Monni> freeze frame Windows XP for instance... it says "Starting Windows ME..." for fraction of a second ;)

[19:22:25] <DeadYak> yes, a ton of code duplication

[19:22:48] <duaneb> DeadYak, ...?

[19:23:38] <duaneb> well, consider having a bunch of pseudo app_servers?

[19:23:40] <DeadYak> right now input_server handles all input-related stuff, doing a true CLI mode would require being able to do so without it

[19:24:02] <DeadYak> I really don't see the point in linuxifying everything

[19:24:15] <duaneb> DeadYak, it's not linuxifiying anything

[19:24:24] <duaneb> Linux stole the concept from the BSDs

[19:24:40] <DeadYak> irrelevant

[19:24:41] *** mmu_man has quit IRC

[19:24:52] <DeadYak> we're not trying to be yet another *nix

[19:25:03] <duaneb> Besides, it adds functionality, doesn't break compatability, and is fairly easy to implement

[19:25:09] <DeadYak> hah

[19:25:13] <pyCube_> linux is dumb because its lame..also, it's all wrong

[19:25:17] <DeadYak> feel free to try if you think it's "fairly easy"

[19:26:00] *** oco has joined #haiku

[19:26:17] <DeadYak> bbl, work

[19:26:22] <ProNoob> well, alternative display servers are a good thing, you could for example think of ones exporting the desktop over the internet like xvnc does on linux

[19:27:05] <ProNoob> or something stripped down (console) frees up resources for non desktop usage

[19:28:02] <duaneb> what's a team?

[19:28:04] <DeadYak> process.

[19:28:18] <duaneb> thanks

[19:28:33] <DeadYak> in any case, given that Haiku's aiming to be a desktop OS, not a server or anything, I don't see the point in "non desktop usage"

[19:29:23] <duaneb> DeadYak, you sound a whole lot like Bill Gates

[19:29:39] <ProNoob> hmm, so, DeadYak will Haiku be a good desktop os, like for media ?

[19:29:53] <DeadYak> ProNoob: that's the intention

[19:29:55] <DeadYak> duaneb: how so?

[19:30:14] <duaneb> DeadYak, he resisted for >20 years on adding a non-app-server component to windows

[19:30:32] <DeadYak> duaneb: except Windows is also trying to be a server and everything else

[19:30:34] <ProNoob> DeadYak, so it will support the hardware 3d/2d acceleration features of recent graphics cards ?

[19:30:44] <duaneb> but let's just say, for example, you want root access before the bootscript runs?

[19:30:49] <DeadYak> ProNoob: if specs are available and there's time/people available to write those...

[19:30:56] <duaneb> you can't really use an app_server for that

[19:30:59] <DeadYak> duaneb: dude. There are already 500 bazillion OSes that act the way you want

[19:31:04] <DeadYak> duaneb: feel free to use them

[19:31:12] <ProNoob> DeadYak, why does that sound like a no ?

[19:31:24] <duaneb> DeadYak, I really like haiku. I'm just trying to address the few small issues

[19:31:31] <duaneb> I would use *BSD, but they have X11..

[19:32:00] <DeadYak> sounds like you want *BSD with a different display server

[19:32:15] <pyCube_> x is dumb because its lame.. also, its completely wrong

[19:32:23] <ProNoob> duaneb, code your own ^^

[19:34:03] <smtms> "linux is dumb because its lame..also, it's all wrong"

[19:34:04] <duaneb> DeadYak, no, I have issues with BSD too.

[19:34:15] <DeadYak> then why are you insisting on making Haiku like BSD?

[19:34:24] <duaneb> DeadYak, I'm not

[19:34:28] <DeadYak> yes you are

[19:34:32] <DeadYak> what you're asking for are not trivial changes

[19:34:35] *** Wiss has left #haiku

[19:34:37] <duaneb> DeadYak, yes they are

[19:34:45] <DeadYak> no they are not.

[19:34:46] <DeadYak> once again

[19:34:47] <DeadYak> if you think it's so easy

[19:34:50] <DeadYak> try to do it yourself.

[19:34:51] <duaneb> DeadYak, how are they not?

[19:34:54] <DeadYak> you will not find it as trivial as you're making it out to be

[19:34:58] <DeadYak> I already said

[19:35:04] <DeadYak> if you don't want to listen, then whatever.

[19:39:03] *** Stargater has joined #haiku

[19:39:06] <Stargater> hi

[19:42:15] <Korli> duaneb Haiku is only a kernel without its app_server anyway

[19:43:45] <duaneb> Korli, no, there's still the filesystem access, basic PS/2 input, etc.

[19:46:32] *** va1 has joined #haiku

[19:49:04] <Korli> duaneb not even, it's a kernel as in kernel with drivers

[19:50:28] *** dos4gw has joined #haiku

[19:50:37] <Begasus> has there been any port for libgen (beside the header)?

[19:50:49] *** dr_evil has quit IRC

[19:50:56] *** dos4gw is now known as dr_evil

[19:50:59] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil

[19:51:08] <Korli> what's libgen ?

[19:52:08] <Begasus> http://opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908775/xsh/libgen.h.html

[19:52:40] <Begasus> the library is called by some games

[19:52:57] <Begasus> basename and dirname also link to it afaik

[19:54:27] <Korli> Begasus I assume we don't have this

[19:55:07] <Begasus> only thing I can find is some references to the header ... nothing more atm

[19:55:58] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24984 /haiku/trunk/src/ (kits/Jamfile system/libroot/os/Jamfile): Moved KMessage from libbe to libroot.

[19:56:48] <Korli> Begasus basename seems to be in stdc++ and glibc

[19:56:59] <Korli> http://haiku.it.su.se:8180/source/search?q=&defs=basename&refs=&path=&hist=

[19:57:34] <Begasus> also yes

[20:04:00] <Korli> Begasus you just need the header, no ?

[20:05:23] <Begasus> I already got the header thnx

[20:06:00] <Begasus> it was a undefined reference to 'dirname' that needs to be solved (should be linked against -lgen for as far as I could find out)

[20:06:04] *** duaneb has quit IRC

[20:06:16] *** koki_haiku has quit IRC

[20:06:42] *** Poisson_Pilote has quit IRC

[20:07:19] <Korli> Begasus indeed dirname is not included

[20:07:46] <Begasus> basename in glibc is part of sprintf or something iirc

[20:09:32] *** Poisson_Pilote has joined #haiku

[20:11:00] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku

[20:11:19] <Korli> Begasus then maybe you can provide a patch with http://sourceware.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/libc/misc/dirname.c ?

[20:12:48] <Begasus> gues I have to pass that through to others ;)

[20:13:15] <Korli> Begasus don't you want to be famous ? :)

[20:13:22] <Begasus> hehe

[20:13:30] <Begasus> can't handle the heat ^^

[20:17:20] *** ProNoob has quit IRC

[20:30:04] *** frankps has joined #haiku

[20:35:05] *** va1 has quit IRC

[20:39:27] *** Euver has quit IRC

[20:39:57] *** Master199 has quit IRC

[20:42:55] *** {V} has quit IRC

[20:43:04] *** {V} has joined #haiku

[20:44:09] *** frankps has left #haiku

[20:46:01] *** mmlr has quit IRC

[20:49:26] <CIA-34> korli * r24985 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/posix/glibc/ (6 files in 4 dirs): added memrchr and dirname

[20:50:40] <Korli> Begasus this should help

[20:51:39] <Begasus> checking ...

[20:52:14] <Begasus> if so I need to create a new image ;)

[20:52:39] <Korli> you can use "jam update-image libroot.so

[20:53:44] <Begasus> basename is still called by glibc?

[20:53:51] *** rdmr has joined #haiku

[20:54:02] <Korli> Begasus hmm ?

[20:54:51] <Begasus> ah

[20:54:56] <Begasus> nm ;)

[20:55:03] * Begasus hits against the wall ;)

[20:55:51] <Korli> nm ?

[20:56:09] *** tradewind has quit IRC

[20:56:23] <Begasus> no matter*

[20:59:44] <Korli> anyway, got to go

[21:00:21] <Begasus> thnx for now! ;)

[21:02:44] *** Korli has quit IRC

[21:05:31] *** {V} has quit IRC

[21:05:37] *** {V} has joined #haiku

[21:06:55] *** Poisson_Pilote has quit IRC

[21:07:01] *** petterhj has joined #haiku

[21:10:28] *** Wiss has joined #haiku

[21:12:37] <Wiss> hi

[21:12:56] <Wiss> Do you have the result of how many slots Google have allowed to you ?

[21:13:49] *** surrounder has quit IRC

[21:14:16] <Begasus> hmm dr_evil could it be that gcc gets confused with undterminated character constants when using // comment // instead of /* comment */ ?

[21:14:26] <DeadYak> Begasus: yes.

[21:14:32] <DeadYak> Begasus: // is a C++-style comment

[21:14:33] <Begasus> getting those with a few files in the headers section

[21:14:42] <DeadYak> Begasus: when compiling in pure C without C99, those will error

[21:15:11] <xcasex> oh wth.

[21:15:16] <Begasus> ah k ... so how do I let gcc handle it without editing the headers? ;)

[21:15:20] <xcasex> why is there no decent jabber clients anymore *cries*

[21:15:35] <DeadYak> Begasus: are you invoking gcc yourself or is a makefile doing it?

[21:15:40] <Begasus> makefile

[21:15:55] <DeadYak> Begasus: how easy is it for you to use g++ instead of gcc?

[21:16:44] <Begasus> need to figure out where the compiler is handled in the makefile I presume ;)

[21:18:28] <DeadYak> usually it's something like CC=gcc

[21:18:31] <DeadYak> and everyplace else uses $(CC)

[21:18:35] <{V}> doesn't gcc only moan about the C/C++ comment style when one of the flags is pedantic?

[21:18:45] <DeadYak> {V}: possibly

[21:18:50] <DeadYak> {V}: good point, I forgot about -pedantic

[21:21:08] *** Ruiloff has joined #haiku

[21:21:13] <{V}> I think you can add -lang-c-c++-comments to allow both styles...

[21:21:48] *** tradewind has joined #haiku

[21:22:24] <{V}> hmmz perhaps not

[21:22:49] <DeadYak> {V}: on 2.9?

[21:23:05] *** TheNerd_ has joined #haiku

[21:23:43] <{V}> didn't see a version mentioned on the website I found it on.. I'll check the gcc website & manual

[21:24:35] <Begasus> does using it the other way give errors with g++ DeadYak ?

[21:24:51] *** Odium has joined #haiku

[21:25:00] <Begasus> eg with /* */ instead of // //

[21:25:19] <DeadYak> nope

[21:26:29] <Begasus> hmm .. I can let the lines stand ... problem is when there are " ' " used in the line I think

[21:26:32] <DeadYak> C++ allows both styles

[21:26:43] <Begasus> think I read something 'bout that a while ago

[21:26:56] *** rayyildiz has joined #haiku

[21:27:05] <Begasus> eg "BeOS's" doesn't work "BeOS" does

[21:28:32] <Begasus> in other words ... single qoutes are bad in headers ;)

[21:28:49] <Begasus> atleast when used inside a comment

[21:29:14] *** rayyildiz has left #haiku

[21:30:11] <Begasus> hmm strike that ... ;)

[21:30:22] *** AngryPunk has joined #haiku

[21:30:52] *** Megaf_ has quit IRC

[21:31:06] *** Styrbjorn has quit IRC

[21:31:17] *** Styrbjorn has joined #haiku

[21:37:35] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku

[21:37:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man

[21:39:17] *** Monni has quit IRC

[21:39:50] *** Monni has joined #Haiku

[21:39:59] *** TheNerd has quit IRC

[21:42:06] *** wildur has quit IRC

[21:42:18] *** wildur has joined #Haiku

[21:45:18] *** petterhj has quit IRC

[21:45:46] *** mmu_man has quit IRC

[21:46:14] *** petterhj has joined #haiku

[21:46:32] *** rdmr_ has joined #haiku

[21:55:26] *** AtomoZero has joined #haiku

[21:55:30] *** aroman has quit IRC

[21:55:31] *** DeadYak has quit IRC

[21:56:24] *** aroman has joined #haiku

[21:56:24] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku

[21:58:27] * tqh is back

[22:01:02] <Begasus> wb

[22:02:30] * Begasus is compiling first game (angband) as a test on Haiku (native) ;)

[22:03:27] *** rdmr has quit IRC

[22:03:33] *** A-v-S has joined #haiku

[22:03:50] *** rdmr_ is now known as rdmr

[22:11:57] <CIA-34> stippi * r24986 /haiku/trunk/headers/os/storage/FilePanel.h:

[22:11:57] <CIA-34> Applied patch by Artur Wyszynski:

[22:11:57] <CIA-34> * Added virtual destructor to BRefFilter in case the GCC version is 3 or newer

[22:11:57] <CIA-34>  (can't do it for GCC 2.95.3, since that would break binary compatibility

[22:11:57] <CIA-34>  AFAIKT)

[22:12:29] *** AtomoZero has quit IRC

[22:14:27] <Begasus> g'night peeps

[22:15:03] *** Begasus has quit IRC

[22:19:16] *** Wiss has quit IRC

[22:20:01] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku

[22:21:48] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku

[22:23:43] *** AndrevS has quit IRC

[22:24:25] <CIA-34> mmlr * r24987 /haiku/trunk/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)

[22:24:25] <CIA-34> * Ported the FAT filesystem to the recent filesystem interface changes which

[22:24:25] <CIA-34>  was, thanks to the detailed instructions from Ingo, quite doable.

[22:24:25] <CIA-34> * Ported the (deprecated and now publically removed) notify_listener() calls

[22:24:25] <CIA-34>  to the respective new notify_* calls.

[22:24:26] <CIA-34> * Fixed debug build.

[22:24:29] <CIA-34> * Added the FAT filesystem back to the image.

[22:24:46] <aroman> yay! ported filesystems! :)

[22:33:03] *** dr_evil has quit IRC

[22:33:04] *** bSON has quit IRC

[22:33:29] *** ru` has joined #haiku

[22:33:49] *** {V} has quit IRC

[22:33:55] *** {V} has joined #haiku

[22:34:00] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC

[22:34:52] *** wildur has quit IRC

[22:39:06] *** Stargater has quit IRC

[22:40:00] *** Barrett has joined #haiku

[22:49:08] *** koki_haiku has joined #haiku

[22:50:49] * DeadYak pets koki_haiku

[22:50:52] <DeadYak> did you make us cake? :)

[22:51:03] *** nils_1 has quit IRC

[22:51:28] <koki_haiku> DeadYak, the cake is not ready yet, and it will take some time before it bakes :P

[22:52:46] <DeadYak> :)

[22:53:30] <koki_haiku> so stop asking for you piece! :P

[22:53:36] <DeadYak> :(

[22:53:39] <DeadYak> but I want cake :(

[22:53:47] *** Stargater has joined #haiku

[22:53:48] <Stargater> re

[22:53:54] <koki_haiku> we all want a piece of the pie, don't we? :)

[22:54:43] <Stargater> hehe i have fun with c++ :-) my game is running now :-)

[22:54:48] <Stargater> koki_haiku http://tm.kaldience.com/dir/members/stargater/bilder/pairs_shots/Pairs_alpha001_haiku.png

[22:55:02] * {V} thought the cake was a lie

[22:55:34] <koki_haiku> Stargater, cool! :)

[22:55:50] <Stargater> thanks

[22:56:08] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC

[22:56:09] *** Barrett is now known as Barrett666

[22:56:51] <koki_haiku> {V}, that story was true

[22:56:58] <{V}> Stargater, nice :)

[22:57:07] <Stargater> thanks

[22:57:16] <Stargater> :-)

[22:57:38] *** bSON has joined #haiku

[22:57:47] <DeadYak> koki_haiku: he was making a reference to the game 'Portal' :)

[22:58:37] <koki_haiku> DeadYak, when my father told me that, there were no games; as a matter of fact, there no personal computers either.

[22:58:43] * koki_haiku is that old

[22:58:52] <DeadYak> koki_haiku: I meant what {V} said :)

[22:59:16] <DeadYak> "the cake is a lie" was a reference to it

[22:59:17] <koki_haiku> ah, sorry :)

[22:59:29] * koki_haiku does not have a clue about games :)

[23:01:18] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24988 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/AboutSystem.cpp: Updated lp_solve copyright.

[23:01:55] <{V}> "the cake is a lie" is a reference to the computer game Portal, in which a deranged computer puts the player character through a series of (increasingly more lethal) puzzles, promissing there will be cake at the end. Previous test subjects have placed graffiti on the walls such as the "the cake is a lie"

[23:04:16] <koki_haiku> ah, ok :)

[23:05:51] *** bSON has quit IRC

[23:10:07] *** dchis has quit IRC

[23:12:07] *** {V} has quit IRC

[23:12:12] *** {V} has joined #haiku

[23:15:04] *** infamy has joined #haiku

[23:17:55] *** mmadia has joined #haiku

[23:18:04] *** tqh has quit IRC

[23:18:50] <mmadia> crap.  either i just missed tqh  or scared him away.

[23:19:11] <DeadYak> haha

[23:20:01] <mmadia> how goes it, DeadYak?

[23:20:27] <DeadYak> good good, about to head home

[23:20:28] <DeadYak> you?

[23:21:14] <mmadia> just got in.... delaying the shower process : )

[23:22:26] <mmadia> on the bright side, firefox, thunderbird, and sunbird seem to have compiled via my builder script while i was at work.

[23:22:33] <DeadYak> that explains how you scared tqh away :P

[23:22:55] <mmadia> heh,  scent-o-vision

[23:29:11] <DeadYak> bbl :)

[23:29:22] *** DeadYak has quit IRC

[23:29:25] <mmadia> fine, fine... i can take a hint...

[23:29:27] * mmadia showers

[23:30:49] *** mmadia has quit IRC

[23:34:18] *** nibble\away has quit IRC

[23:38:36] *** TheNerd_ is now known as TheNerd

[23:38:57] <urnenfeld> dammed somewhere around has bluetooth on and is fucking my tests!

[23:39:50] <koki_haiku> tranquilo urnenfeld :)

[23:40:11] <urnenfeld> :D

[23:43:41] *** dchis has joined #haiku

[23:48:43] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC

[23:48:50] <aljen> hey

[23:49:02] <Stargater> hi urnenfeld aljen

[23:49:52] <urnenfeld> hallo Stargater

[23:53:54] <infamy> urnenfelf get out some tinfoil

[23:56:03] *** HeTo- has quit IRC

[23:56:10] *** ThomHolwerda has quit IRC

[23:57:53] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC

[23:57:54] <geist> wow, no one on osnews picked up the danger buyout
top

   April 16, 2008  
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | >