[00:02:59] *** helf has joined #haiku
[00:03:03] <helf> hola
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[00:05:04] <xcasex> anyone recall which rel nr was the last one to work native?
[00:05:55] <xcasex> rel? i of course meant revision nr.
[00:05:56] <xcasex> <-- tired
[00:06:22] <helf> nr?
[00:06:35] <xcasex> number
[00:06:53] <helf> good lord
[00:07:02] <helf> I hate overly abbreviated things :P
[00:07:16] <{V}> perhaps echelog or the search field on http://dev.haiku-os.org  knows
[00:07:21] <helf> you could do # :)
[00:07:30] <Technix> justeco: you still want to sell your BeBox?
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[00:07:57] <helf> bebox?
[00:08:02] * helf shoves technix out of the way
[00:08:04] <justeco> Technix, for the right price.
[00:08:05] <helf> I'll buy it!
[00:08:11] <helf> hey matt
[00:08:14] <justeco> I'm not looking to unload it for cheap.
[00:08:24] <helf> whats the "right price"?
[00:08:25] <mmadia> hi josh
[00:08:35] <mmadia> have you seen helf?  : P
[00:08:41] <helf> ;P
[00:08:45] * {V} grabs a bag of potato chips and prepares to watch the fight
[00:09:01] <helf> your beos distribution boots on the GX110
[00:09:12] <mmadia> by beos distro?
[00:09:29] <helf> ...\
[00:09:32] <mmadia> err, my ... *
[00:09:58] <xcasex> mmadia: you were running haiku native right? :D
[00:10:05] <xcasex> >_O
[00:10:43] * mmadia is confused ... long day.
[00:11:09] <pyCube> i am ready for my day to be over
[00:11:11] <helf> ne1 want 2 hlp me?
[00:11:50] <pyCube> spending a weekend in the rural calmness of my home town makes coming back to the city for a week of programming somewhat depressing
[00:12:02] <helf> I can imagine
[00:12:06] <helf> I don't like large cities
[00:12:25] <pyCube> well, north bay area isnt big city in the classic sense
[00:12:28] <pyCube> but still
[00:12:47] <pyCube> ..i'd rather be at home in my greenhouse or front yard
[00:13:14] <helf> mines sorta a city :P we have a really teeny "downtown" area thats maybe 15 square blocks. our tallest building, is, i think, 10-12 stories. and its a old folks home...
[00:13:23] <pyCube> heh
[00:13:51] <helf> we have one street thats entirely made up of lawyers offices.. and we have about 12 golf courses
[00:14:02] <pyCube> coding is fun, but nowhere near as rewarding as helping food grow
[00:14:11] <helf> hehe
[00:14:21] <helf> i dont have enough patience :P
[00:14:32] <pyCube> are all the cool old houses in your town taken over by lawyers and doctors?
[00:14:35] <helf> if my plant doesnt have food on it in 24 hours, i mow it over
[00:14:37] <mmadia> speaking of food... time to devour some : )
[00:14:52] <helf> not really. they all have these shitty houses/buildings
[00:14:56] <pyCube> as in law offices and doctor offices
[00:15:01] <pyCube> ah
[00:15:05] <helf> our "historic" neighborhoods are pretty nice and owned by private people
[00:15:33] <pyCube> out here, all these rural towns popped up in the latter half of the 1800's.. so they all have these really neat victorian house neighborhoods
[00:15:46] <helf> cool
[00:15:57] <pyCube> in most of the towns there isnt the money for peopel to live in them, so they end up gutted and turned into law, doctor, etc offices
[00:15:58] <helf> we have a bunch of victorian style houses
[00:16:09] <helf> and the "grand southern" style houses. big columns and stuff
[00:16:16] <helf> I hate that :(
[00:16:33] <helf> cube, the lawyers,doctors, etc just buy them up here and live in them
[00:16:36] <helf> ;)
[00:16:42] <pyCube> if only
[00:16:47] <helf> i dont know how our little citie keeps so many of them in jobs..
[00:16:51] <helf> city
[00:17:02] <pyCube> they tear up farmland to build sprawling McMansions
[00:17:14] <pyCube> and use the cool old houses in town as offices
[00:17:20] <helf> i hate rich people :P
[00:17:40] <helf> we have this humongous mansion next to use
[00:18:00] <helf> it sold for like $600k
[00:18:22] <helf> this house in california/up north, would be like 3-6 million. its crazy big.. a lawyer moved into it just recently..
[00:18:47] <helf> a lawyer.. with two kids.. and a wife.. in a mansion with like 10 bedrooms.. wtf :P
[00:19:09] <ToxicSoul1> they can have a lot of guests over =o
[00:19:18] <helf> i guess :P
[00:19:21] <ToxicSoul1> like.. another family
[00:20:15] <ToxicSoul1> I would hate to keep something like that clean.. I struggle with the small area I have but I guess you can always hire people do that when you have money
[00:20:25] <helf> yeah, i know
[00:20:48] <helf> I have a hard time keeping my bedroom clean. heh
[00:21:28] <helf> I'd love to live in a cool big mansion with hired help.. be fun.
[00:21:31] <helf> or a castle..
[00:21:33] <helf> :]
[00:21:59] <ToxicSoul1> a castle with a mote!
[00:22:15] <helf> I'll just never understand people that buy stuff for status symbols. they also drive a lexus, a jag and a landrover
[00:22:18] <helf> hehe, yeah :P
[00:22:21] <helf> with ALIGATORS
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[00:26:49] <helf> still not fixed your 914, cube?
[00:27:03] <{V}> helf, sure. Like alligators aren't a status symbol :p
[00:27:19] <helf> but they are a status symbol with a vicious hunger
[00:27:25] <pyCube> alligators with gold trim
[00:27:33] <helf> and gold grills
[00:27:47] <helf> diamond collars
[00:27:55] <pyCube> alligate this, beyotch
[00:28:43] <helf> That get fed filet mignon
[00:29:01] <pyCube> nah.. poor children
[00:29:08] <{V}> with a little tag on their collars "If you can read this, you're too close"
[00:29:15] <helf> cubes on to something
[00:29:26] <helf> pyCube, solve the orphan girl crisis in china!
[00:29:33] <pyCube> helf:  i stole the idea from Jonathan Swift
[00:29:41] <helf> i made mine up
[00:29:42] <helf> go me
[00:29:43] <helf> ;D
[00:29:47] <pyCube> go read "A Modest Proposal"
[00:30:11] <helf> I'm selling my rabbit. I've decided :P
[00:30:25] <helf> Then im going to save my money and get something newer thats decent.
[00:30:28] <helf> for a change. heh
[00:30:47] <{V}> sooo, not a bebox?
[00:31:07] <helf> wha?
[00:31:16] <helf> sell my rabbit for a beobx?
[00:31:17] <helf> *bebox
[00:32:00] <{V}> I doubt you'll get enough for the rabbit to do that :)
[00:32:17] <helf> i can sell the rabbit for 1500-2000usd :)
[00:32:26] <helf> i can get a bebox for under 1k ;)
[00:32:45] <{V}> that's one impressive bunny
[00:32:56] <helf> lol, its a VW Rabbit. a car.
[00:33:00] <helf> basically a VW Golf
[00:33:23] <{V}> owwwwwww
[00:33:39] <helf> heh
[00:33:46] <helf> all my cars confuse people
[00:33:56] <helf> when I had the spitfire people were like "YOU HAVE A PLANE?!!?!?"
[00:34:00] <pyCube> helf:  i spent a little time on Sat. helping to gut and clean a vw rabbit for EVification
[00:34:14] <helf> pycube : i'd LOVE to do that. but thats way too expensive :(
[00:34:32] <helf> having it all EV would be fun
[00:34:40] <helf> how much does the kit cost now, 5k?
[00:34:45] <aroman> helf: new or old rabbit? :P
[00:34:48] <helf> hm.. i might save it in my barn for that. i forget about the kit
[00:34:52] <pyCube> dunno.. not my project and didnt bother to ask
[00:34:54] <helf> 1981 diesel rabbit
[00:34:55] <aroman> I'd buy a new rabbit for 2k :P
[00:34:59] <aroman> ah
[00:35:00] <helf> heh
[00:35:05] <helf> you can have mine for 1500
[00:35:05] <helf> :)
[00:35:15] <helf> 3 owner, i have receipts going back ot original purchase
[00:35:17] <helf> :]
[00:35:21] <aroman> nah... I've a 07 golf :P
[00:35:26] <helf> ah :)
[00:35:35] <aroman> rabbits look nicer though :P
[00:35:37] <helf> ill sell it on craigstlist
[00:36:02] <helf> i have a broken down parts '85 golf that ill sell with it. you could put the 5spd from the golf in it and all. i can probbly get 2.5k for them both.
[00:36:05] <pyCube> hm.. i wonder how many more times i'll give Rush a chance to grow on me before i just accept that they are a really shitty band, regardless of what people say
[00:36:28] <helf> cube : ive never understood peoples fixation with rush
[00:36:32] <helf> ive tried to like it...
[00:36:33] <aroman> I like just one song... yyz :P
[00:36:34] <helf> i just.. cant..
[00:36:38] <pyCube> me neither
[00:36:50] <pyCube> aroman: lemme guess.. guitar hero
[00:36:53] <pyCube> hehe
[00:36:56] <helf> hehe
[00:37:18] <pyCube> i'll admit.. its a fun one to play in guitar hero
[00:37:31] <pyCube> but then, in guitar hero, i also like kansas
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[00:38:23] <helf> heh
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[00:38:28] <helf> dude, cube. check this out.
[00:38:31] <helf> http://members.aol.com/BohanDesign/evkits/bearcatev/default.htm
[00:38:45] <aroman> pyCube: lol... when playing at my friend's house... I don't have a console
[00:38:47] <helf> I could get super hackerish and set that up in the rear of my rabbit! diesel engine up front, electric in the rear :D
[00:38:54] <aroman> I have a real guitar :P
[00:38:55] <helf> omg. that would be so awesome
[00:39:16] <helf> i'd have to steal a beetle transaxle
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[00:39:22] <helf> hmmm
[00:39:25] <aroman> I doubt helf will be selling his car anytime soon now :P
[00:39:29] <helf> heh
[00:39:32] <helf> yeah.. :D
[00:39:41] <helf> should NOT have seen this. ive been dying to do or get an EV car
[00:40:05] <DocPheniX> :P
[00:40:22] <DocPheniX> i wanna do a crx hf ev conversion
[00:40:26] <DocPheniX> with an ac motor
[00:40:30] <helf> plenty of room in the back end. cut out the floor pan for the electric motor and beetle transaxle... remove the rear seats and put the batteries fuel tank there..
[00:40:38] <DocPheniX> regenerative breaking ftw.
[00:40:44] <helf> DocPheniX : that woulkd be awesome. I love CRXs
[00:41:20] <helf> the rabbit already gets ~45-55mpg.. with a 5spd, it'll get 65 or so on the highway.. add an electric motor for in town driving or power assist.. :)
[00:41:48] <helf> now to go make buddy buddy with some lug heads.. im just getting into car stuff..
[00:41:50] <DocPheniX> i get about 40mpg if i hypermile it in my civic
[00:42:00] <helf> hypermile?
[00:42:21] <DocPheniX> coasting/drafting strategicly
[00:42:22] <helf> I want to set mmy diesel up for Bio
[00:42:25] <helf> ah
[00:42:56] <helf> I'd love to be able to also add propane injection to my diesel.boost power and mpg
[00:42:57] <DocPheniX> b100 should work without any conversion
[00:43:13] <helf> well, mines so old, i gotta replace a few lines to make sure the rubber doesnt degrade
[00:43:30] <DocPheniX> ive got a honda civic that is tweaked for power( motor swap etc)
[00:43:43] <DocPheniX> i keep wondering how hard it would be to convert it to CNG
[00:43:48] <helf> ah, heck, im keeping my rabbit. its in perfect shape. was owned by a little old lady until 2006 then it sat for about 8 months until i bought it :) i have a huge wad of repair receipts and all. its a keeper..
[00:44:03] <helf> DocPheniX : what engine do you have in it?
[00:44:17] <helf> I want to get another cheap daily driver so I can do a v8 conversion in my astro van.
[00:44:24] <DocPheniX> b20/b16 frankenstein
[00:44:33] <helf> heh
[00:44:35] <DocPheniX> it hauls ass
[00:44:36] <DocPheniX> :P
[00:44:41] <helf> I bet
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[00:44:51] <DocPheniX> well its a 1990 sedan
[00:45:03] <DocPheniX> so its pretty light
[00:45:04] <DocPheniX> :P
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[00:45:19] <helf> heh
[00:45:30] <DocPheniX> that and the b20 bottom end has wicked tourqe compared to a stock honda engine
[00:45:38] <DocPheniX> my other civic is my daily
[00:45:44] <DocPheniX> its a 2k2
[00:45:46] <zlominus> DocPheniX: I have 1985 civic sedan :)
[00:45:54] <helf> how much torque?
[00:46:01] <helf> i dearly miss my RX-7 :(
[00:46:04] <DocPheniX> 212ish
[00:46:07] <helf> helf.freeshell.org/rx-7.jpg
[00:46:10] <helf> wow
[00:46:11] <helf> not bad
[00:46:12] <DocPheniX> ftlbs
[00:46:18] <DocPheniX> just guessing
[00:46:24] <DocPheniX> i havent dynod it
[00:46:33] <helf> I want to put a 383 in my astro. doesnt take much for the swap.
[00:47:24] <DocPheniX> go for the gm 6.2 diesel out of the military hummer
[00:47:34] <DocPheniX> loads of fun to be had there
[00:47:37] <cps1966> 6.5
[00:47:37] <helf> will those fit right?
[00:47:37] <DocPheniX> turbo
[00:47:39] <DocPheniX> etc
[00:47:43] <pyCube> i should drop one of those into my 914
[00:47:44] <helf> i thought about a diesel
[00:47:49] <helf> buuut...
[00:48:01] <DocPheniX> helf, it will fit in an s10 iirc
[00:48:07] <DocPheniX> so it should fit in an astro
[00:48:12] <DocPheniX> id check it out
[00:48:21] <helf> thanks for the tip
[00:48:22] <DocPheniX> i know they fit in jeeps
[00:48:23] <DocPheniX> :P
[00:48:24] <cps1966> to wide for astro
[00:48:27] <helf> the s10/astros are interchangable
[00:48:28] <DocPheniX> buddy has one
[00:48:44] <helf> cps : ill have to check
[00:48:52] <DocPheniX> a 1982ish scrambler with one in it
[00:48:56] <DocPheniX> turboed
[00:48:59] <DocPheniX> thing rules
[00:49:03] <DocPheniX> he runs it on veg oil
[00:49:33] <cps1966> i had 6.2 in sububan and put regular 350 in place of it
[00:49:36] <helf> what i want to do is rip the stock exhaust out, through some side pipes on it and then put a second tank where the cat/muffler are now. same amount of space as the other side :) i want a larger tank anyways. so two 32-40g tanks would be nice. for long trips out in the middle of nowhere
[00:49:56] <helf> doc : wait, an 82 scrambler diesel? how long has he had it?
[00:50:13] <DocPheniX> about 2 years
[00:50:15] <DocPheniX> ish
[00:50:20] <helf> you put a 350 in a diesel suburban? why? :P
[00:50:25] <helf> did he get it off ebay?
[00:50:34] <DocPheniX> nope
[00:50:37] <helf> oh ok
[00:50:47] <DocPheniX> he scrounged the shell from the junker
[00:50:52] <DocPheniX> and got the engine off ebay
[00:50:59] <cps1966> because it would cost 2000 grand to fix deisel and 400 for 350 i had
[00:51:02] <helf> ah
[00:51:13] <helf> diesel is better... ;P
[00:51:29] <helf> it amazes me how many techheads ive met tht are also into cars.
[00:51:55] <DocPheniX> its the modification bug
[00:52:01] <DocPheniX> once it catches on one place
[00:52:05] <DocPheniX> it just grows
[00:52:08] <helf> yeah, seems to be. theynevave stock anything :)
[00:52:18] <helf> *they never have
[00:52:34] <pyCube> and knowing the advantages to being abel to do shit yourself rather than depend on a mechanic/computer technician
[00:52:38] <helf> yeah
[00:52:50] <helf> gotta go pic kmy sister up. bbl
[00:55:18] <cps1966> 6.2 diesel is a heavy piece of junk
[00:56:36] <DocPheniX> meh
[00:56:39] <DocPheniX> suit yourself
[00:56:53] <DocPheniX> my buddies turbo diesel is pretty damn nice
[00:57:02] <DocPheniX> and its a 6.2
[00:57:08] <cps1966> yeah but thats diff
[00:57:15] <DocPheniX> how so
[00:57:18] <DocPheniX> its the same engine
[00:57:24] <DocPheniX> he just added a turbo
[00:57:25] <DocPheniX> lol
[00:57:42] <cps1966> na it not olds based engine with poor oiling
[00:57:53] <DocPheniX> oh really
[00:58:13] <DocPheniX> what about the oiling is it that makes it poor
[00:58:22] <DocPheniX> not enough pressure? or wha?
[00:58:25] <cps1966> yeah they quit making 6,2 around 84 or so
[00:58:35] <DocPheniX> no
[00:58:36] <CIA-50> korli * r24960 /haiku/trunk/headers/ (os/kernel/OS.h private/shared/cpu_type.h): added amd geode lx cpu type, untested
[00:58:46] <DocPheniX> they still come in the military hummers
[00:58:54] <cps1966> made 6.5 turbo
[00:58:55] <DocPheniX> thats the engine ive been talking about
[01:00:07] * pyCube puts on some Funkadelic
[01:02:28] <justeco> i815E graphics suck butt.
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[01:09:15] <ToxicSoul1> hey so I'm trying to turn off dma.. but I've run into a small issue
[01:09:17] <ToxicSoul1> root@labstaff-pc1:/home/achester/haiku/haiku# ./generated/objects/linux/x86/release/tools/bfs_shell/bfs_shell
[01:09:17] <ToxicSoul1> ./generated/objects/linux/x86/release/tools/bfs_shell/bfs_shell: error while loading shared libraries: libroot_build.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[01:09:31] <ToxicSoul1> everything compiled fine =\
[01:10:30] <DeadYak> ToxicSoul1: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=../../../../lib
[01:10:33] <DeadYak> err
[01:10:37] <DeadYak> ToxicSoul1: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=../../../../lib bfs_shell
[01:13:48] <ToxicSoul1> alright got it working .. except I honestly have no clue what to put outside of ide=nodma for the param =p
[01:14:11] <DeadYak> what does bfs_shell have to do with turning off dma?
[01:14:28] <ToxicSoul1> its what I was told to do.. saturday
[01:14:34] <DeadYak> *blink*
[01:14:58] <mmu_man> I think he was told to disable dma in the kernel settings in the image
[01:15:03] <mmu_man> thus the bfs_shell
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[01:15:23] <DeadYak> ah
[01:15:31] <ToxicSoul1> so since then I've tried compiling on solaris and given up due to the solaris install being on a vlan with no outside access preventing pkg-get from working..
[01:15:48] <ToxicSoul1> and now got the compile on linux to work no clue what to do though =\
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[01:24:12] <zlominus> is www.haiku-files.org down?
[01:24:27] <zlominus> it worked now ....
[01:24:35] <zlominus> been waiting a while ...
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[01:31:50] <mmu_man> ToxicSoul1 what's the problem with dma ?
[01:32:04] <mmu_man> are you using qemu or real hw to boot ?
[01:35:26] <ToxicSoul1> qemu
[01:36:03] <ToxicSoul1> it boots but dies on the disc icon and I can't get to the bios to verify if thats it or not
[01:37:11] <mmu_man> ah, first enable console output (press space at boot, boot options)
[01:37:36] <mmu_man> then you can try there to disable dma too in this menu
[01:37:39] <ToxicSoul1> using xVM on solaris to be exact.. got an ultra 40 to demo and since i've used the vmware images at home I wanted to get this working at work
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[01:39:46] <ToxicSoul1> I can't get in early enough to press space.. hmm let me remove the vnc pass and see if I can then launch it that way
[01:40:50] <mmu_man> of course if it boots when you type the password... :p
[01:41:11] <mmu_man> can't you make it display directly?
[01:42:36] <zlominus> WOW ... Haiku goes Native slick on IBM Thinkpad X31
[01:45:03] <ToxicSoul1> beorn[97] [~/]# virsh start haiku; vncviewer localhost:0.1;
[01:45:21] <mmu_man> ToxicSoul1 even on a remote server you should be able to use X11
[01:45:39] <mmu_man> using ssh ?
[01:45:46] <ToxicSoul1> that loads fine ^ it just boots too fast
[01:45:47] <ToxicSoul1> and yeah
[01:45:54] <mmu_man> there is an otion to tunnel X11
[01:46:07] <ToxicSoul1> I am..
[01:46:23] <ToxicSoul1> the thing  is vnc is the way new versions of xen display
[01:46:24] <mmu_man> though X11 probably won't be any faster than vnc
[01:46:49] <mmu_man> ah great, so if you must enter the bios you can't :
[01:46:51] <mmu_man> :p
[01:46:53] <mmu_man> funny
[01:47:20] <ToxicSoul1> For windows I can, it boots too slow =p
[01:47:23] <mmu_man> I thought xen wasn't a full vm and you had to port stuff
[01:47:47] <ToxicSoul1> solaris version has HVM now
[01:47:54] <mmu_man> note most vnc viewer have a menu entry "send ctrl-alt-del"
[01:48:16] <mmu_man> should reboot without having to relog in
[01:48:27] <ToxicSoul1> hmm should work
[01:48:47] <ToxicSoul1> killed the vnc display >.<
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[01:49:36] <mmu_man> eh, plain stupid of them :p
[01:49:37] <ToxicSoul1> I think I almost have it down.. I'm doing virsh start haiku; sleep <somevalue>; vncviewer localhost:0.1;
[01:50:13] <ToxicSoul1> I just have to get the sleep value small enough that it gives me time but large enough that vnc starts after haiku has.. otherwise im getting connection reset by peer
[01:50:31] <mmu_man> eh
[01:51:01] <mmu_man> ahhh, vnc ;)
[01:51:19] <mmu_man> http://82.244.111.82/~revol/haiku.php :p
[01:51:25] <ToxicSoul1>  I saw a non-splash screen... too bad I must of not pressed space fast enough
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[01:51:49] <ToxicSoul1> wrong ip?
[01:53:19] <mmu_man> hmm maybe I changed something in the script ?
[01:53:50] <mmu_man> works here
[01:53:55] <mmu_man> ohh w8 right
[01:54:02] <ToxicSoul1> Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at 82.244.111.82.
[01:54:16] <mmu_man> the other NIC is used, NAT goes to .2 and it has .1
[01:55:10] <ToxicSoul1> got into the boot options! =D
[01:56:06] <ToxicSoul1> enabled debug output.. disabled dma.. still no go =(
[01:56:22] <ToxicSoul1> I don't see any obvious errors either
[01:56:23] <mmu_man> hmm ohh my image panics...
[01:56:31] <mmu_man> gahh and of course it now uses 1024x768
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[01:56:57] <ToxicSoul1> IDE: scan_device_int: device 0x90b0a800, atapi 0
[01:57:00] <ToxicSoul1> is where it dies
[01:58:25] <{V}> darn, my patch recieved comments :(
[01:59:29] <ToxicSoul1> is there any reports of haiku working in HVM? I know I saw a few places saying they couldn't get it to work but most of the time they just kind of stopped when it didnt boot on the first try
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[02:02:20] <CIA-34> mmu_man * r24962 /haiku/trunk/3rdparty/mmu_man/onlinedemo/haiku.php: Use 1024x768 by default as does zbeos now... might not really look best in browser though.
[02:03:51] <mmu_man> ToxicSoul1 just post on the ml
[02:04:03] <ToxicSoul1> http://128.4.134.80/haiku.png =(
[02:04:28] <mmu_man> forbidden
[02:04:38] <mmu_man> ah
[02:04:38] <ToxicSoul1> refresh
[02:04:39] <ToxicSoul1> =p
[02:04:45] <ToxicSoul1> had it chowned wrong
[02:05:26] <mmu_man> note you should have that text on first serial port also
[02:05:35] <mmu_man> with qemu you can use -serial stdio
[02:05:39] <mmu_man> dunno about xen
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[02:06:50] <mmu_man> anyway, I should sleep
[02:07:02] <ToxicSoul1> yeah I cant start a console with virsh console <domain name>
[02:07:07] <ToxicSoul1> can*
[02:07:56] <pyCube> heh..i just used gedit to chat with my wife
[02:07:59] <helf> baaaack
[02:08:45] <pyCube> ssh'd to her machine at home.. made a text file with nano, opened it in gedit on her display.. she edited it, saved and closed.. etc
[02:09:01] <helf> DocPheniX : have any pics of your buddies diesel whachamacallit?
[02:09:16] <pyCube> she wouldnt pay attention to her IM, so i figured i'd invade her screen
[02:09:23] <mmu_man> pyCube you know there are standard tools for that
[02:09:27] <mmu_man> man write
[02:09:33] <mmu_man> man talk
[02:09:35] <pyCube> mmu_man: sure.. but this was quick and easy
[02:09:42] <pyCube> and fun
[02:09:47] <mmu_man> but granted they aren't as user friendly
[02:09:47] <DocPheniX> ill have to ask him if he has any pics
[02:09:55] <DocPheniX> havent seen him in a few weeks
[02:09:56] <mmu_man> and don't work when you don't have a termial open
[02:09:57] * DocPheniX shrugs
[02:10:01] <helf> oh ok
[02:10:08] <helf> bbiab. dinner
[02:10:14] <ToxicSoul1> I wish the girls I knew had some clue about computers
[02:10:16] <ToxicSoul1> lol
[02:10:20] <pyCube> mmu_man: uyeah, the whole point was to do somethign she couldnt ignore or miss
[02:10:50] <mmu_man> I recall playing with samba winpopup support
[02:11:03] <mmu_man> you can run a command on messages
[02:11:52] <pyCube> nice thign about opening gedit (or whatever) is that when she closes it, i notice as i get returned to a prompt
[02:12:47] <mmu_man> ok, n8
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[02:13:36] <pyCube> bon nacht
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[02:15:35] <mmu_man> DeadYak: src/servers/input/InputServer.cpp:356: `kSystemKeymapName' undeclared (first use this function)
[02:16:09] <DeadYak> mmu_man: is your src/bin/keymap rebuilt?
[02:16:24] <mmu_man> input_server
[02:16:42] <DeadYak> yes, but that name is defined in a build sys generated header
[02:16:48] <DeadYak> which is generated by src/bin/keymap
[02:16:56] <mmu_man> what's weird is it doesn't complain about missing header and it is #included
[02:17:13] <mmu_man> well I just jammed the image
[02:17:17] <DeadYak> ah
[02:17:23] <mmu_man> and the header is generated as dependancy just before it
[02:17:39] <ari-free> oh I think I have a good question
[02:17:43] <DeadYak> mmu_man: hmm
[02:17:53] <DeadYak> it works here :/
[02:18:13] <DeadYak> src/bin/keymap -h is used to generate the header, part of my commit modified it so it'd add that var to the generated header
[02:18:25] <DeadYak> so I don't see how that can happen unless keymap's being invoked incorrectly
[02:18:26] <ari-free> before, networking wasn't in the kernel. it sucked. so it is now in the kernel and still modular. What about graphics? why not put that in the kernel as well?
[02:18:30] <DeadYak> it works here on linux anyways :/
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[02:18:43] <mmu_man> the header does contain the name
[02:18:44] <DeadYak> ari-free: no benefit
[02:18:49] <DeadYak> mmu_man: *blink blink*
[02:18:52] <mmu_man> but maybe it's read before it's written
[02:19:12] <ari-free> wouldn't gfx run better in kernel space?
[02:19:13] <DeadYak> ari-free: besides, our graphics aren't slow
[02:19:20] <mmu_man> ohh w8
[02:19:25] <mmu_man> I have 2 of those
[02:19:26] <DeadYak> not really, all the stuff that's useful to do in kernel space is already done there
[02:19:30] <mmu_man>  $ query '(name="SystemKeymap.h")'
[02:19:31] <mmu_man>  /work/haiku/trunk/generated/objects/dano/x86/common/servers/input/SystemKeymap.h
[02:19:32] <mmu_man>  /work/haiku/trunk/generated/objects/haiku/x86/common/servers/input/SystemKeymap.h
[02:19:37] <mmu_man> sure you generate the correct one ?
[02:19:50] <ari-free> windows has gfx drivers in kernel, right?
[02:19:53] <DeadYak> mmu_man: it worked on Linux o.0
[02:20:08] <DeadYak> ari-free: yes
[02:20:15] <DeadYak> ari-free: but they also have a very different windowing server design
[02:20:19] <mmu_man> the one in dano/ doesn't have it
[02:20:53] <ari-free> how is networking different that it should be in kernel
[02:20:54] <DeadYak> mmu_man: can you try rm'ing the one in dano/ ?
[02:21:08] <DeadYak> ari-free: there's a good reason to move networking into the kernel and it has little to do with performance
[02:21:19] <DeadYak> ari-free: it allows kernel-side stuff to make use of networking.
[02:21:25] <mmu_man> yes I'm trying that atm
[02:21:28] <DeadYak> ari-free: net_server was slow because it sucked, period, not because it was in userland
[02:21:51] <DeadYak> ari-free: the main benefit of moving networking into the kernel is it makes things like NFS easily possible
[02:21:56] <mmu_man> because it was written in 1 week
[02:21:59] <DeadYak> that too
[02:22:01] <mmu_man> :=)
[02:22:24] <DeadYak> ari-free: our graphics drivers have both a kernel and userland component, the kernel driver does everything that's actually necessary in the kernel
[02:22:31] <ari-free> that is different than what i have heard before
[02:22:32] <DeadYak> there's no major benefit to moving the accelerant there
[02:23:13] <mmu_man> ohhh I have a nice panic there.. oh w8 I know why :D
[02:23:28] <mmu_man> I enabled 100MB tracing buffer but qemu uses 128MB by default :D
[02:23:32] <DeadYak> oops :P
[02:23:35] <DeadYak> did regenerating that header work?
[02:23:46] <mmu_man> ...patience...
[02:23:49] <DeadYak> ah
[02:23:59] <DeadYak> I figured you managed to build since you got a KDL from qemu :)
[02:24:21] <ari-free> so beos poor networking was never about the userland...I thought it refuted the microkernel argument
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[02:24:37] <DeadYak> ari-free: it had zero to do with it being in userland
[02:24:46] <DeadYak> ari-free: also, microkernels being problematic is mostly an x86-specific issues
[02:24:52] <DeadYak> because x86 is slow as hell at context switches
[02:25:00] <DeadYak> the overhead on most other arch's is much lower
[02:25:31] <mmu_man> DeadYak no that's on the other box
[02:25:50] <mmu_man> ok it's building now
[02:25:51] <mmu_man> n8
[02:25:59] <mmu_man> won't wait for it anyway
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[02:27:01] <ari-free> now all these game consoles...they use ppc derived cpus
[02:27:49] <DeadYak> yep, so?
[02:28:10] <ari-free> is it because of the context switching?
[02:28:18] <ari-free> smoother games
[02:28:20] <DeadYak> no
[02:28:25] <DeadYak> that only comes into play with a multitasking OS
[02:28:28] <DeadYak> which game consoles generally are not.
[02:28:34] <DeadYak> context switch happens when you change from one process to another
[02:28:39] <DeadYak> by definition, you're running one game
[02:28:41] <DeadYak> no context switch
[02:29:03] <ari-free> but within the same game, i'd assume there are several processes
[02:29:44] <ari-free> especially multiplayer
[02:29:58] <DeadYak> threads, yes, processes, no
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[02:32:42] <ari-free> so what advantage does ppc have for game consoles?
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[02:33:06] <DeadYak> IBM was willing and able to custom design chips for the different manufacturers
[02:33:12] <DeadYak> you'll notice none of those is an off the shelf desktop PPC
[02:33:16] <DeadYak> they're very special purpose
[02:33:24] <DeadYak> the instruction set is all they have in common with the likes of what the mac used ot use
[02:33:25] <DeadYak> to*
[02:33:40] <ari-free> the first xbox was intel
[02:33:57] <DeadYak> because that's what MS knew how to do at the time
[02:34:05] <DeadYak> they also took major losses on the first xbox because of that
[02:34:14] <DeadYak> since they were selling ~$700 worth of hardware for less than half of that
[02:34:40] <ari-free> so this was all about marketing
[02:36:28] <helf> back
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[02:39:07] <ari-free> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6105 BeOS implements its TCP stack in a user process, microkernel-style, and so does QNX. Both have notoriously slow TCP stacks.
[02:40:49] <DeadYak> QNX is slow at most I/O, period.
[02:40:49] <helf> qnx! woo :D
[02:40:57] <helf> qnx is just slow in general :)
[02:41:00] <DeadYak> it's not designed for raw performance.
[02:41:00] <helf> but its kewl
[02:41:17] <ari-free> he'd argue because of the microkernel design
[02:41:25] <DeadYak> he
[02:41:28] <DeadYak> er he's full of shit
[02:41:36] <DeadYak> BeOS isn't even remotely a microkernel in the first place
[02:41:40] <DeadYak> so that argument falls flat right there
[02:41:51] <pyCube> fred rogers is anti-microkernel?
[02:42:33] * pyCube goes ahead and has fun with assuming the he-ness of he
[02:42:41] <ari-free> he didn't say that. he said beOS networking was slow because it was in userland like a microkernel
[02:47:13] <ari-free> he also pointed out "What about the performance problem? In short, modern CPUs optimize for the monolithic kernel. "
[02:47:35] <helf> userland rocks
[02:47:35] <ari-free> modern i guess means x86
[02:48:09] <aroman> :) x86: the modern 20-some year old :P
[02:48:39] <ari-free> yeah it will be around forever
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[02:49:01] <aroman> also... it may just be me, but it seems like he's dissing memory protection, which to me is absurd... :/
[02:49:10] <DHowett> MEMORY PROTECTION SUXORZ.
[02:49:12] <DHowett> kidding =[
[02:49:19] <aroman> ari-free: 99% true IMO :P
[02:49:56] <ari-free> I read it as against too much memory protection as in a microkernel gives little benefit for the cost
[02:50:10] <aroman> nowadays they just program the x86 IA in microcode on any core
[02:50:46] <ari-free> well intel's original plan was for everyone to move to itanium. but then AMD came along
[02:50:47] <helf> x86.. modern..
[02:50:47] <helf> hahaha
[02:52:01] <ari-free> amiga: microkernel with no memory protection
[02:52:15] <helf> amiga = awesomeness
[02:52:18] <helf> ;P
[02:52:23] <aroman> ok... time to go home :) I'll try to get a decent long to figure out what's going on with my screen resolution under haiku!
[02:52:26] <aroman> bbl
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[02:53:44] <DHowett> petterhj-'s quit message makes me want to hug norsemen.
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[03:27:14] <Technix> holy crap
[03:27:35] * Technix just hauled a 16seat dining room table up to his fourth floor apartment
[03:28:18] <DHowett> O_O
[03:28:32] <Technix> me and two other guys, but man....
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[03:36:10] <aroman> I'm back
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[03:36:56] <umccullough_work> hey Sikosis :)
[03:39:02] <helf> 16 seat?!
[03:39:03] <helf> good god
[03:39:27] * DeadYak pictures Beowulf-esque banquet hall
[03:39:52] <helf> ROUND TABLE!
[03:39:54] <helf> ^_^
[03:40:01] <helf> you must dress up and have a FEAST
[03:40:11] <helf> ive got the shitty, smoking car to come pick everyone up in
[03:40:56] * helf loves those commercials
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[03:48:30] * ari-free prepares feast
[03:48:45] <ari-free> feasting and dressing up don't go together
[03:49:17] <helf> sure they do :D
[03:49:35] <ari-free> no...you want to get comfortable when eating and eating
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[03:50:04] <helf> dressing up in awesome costumes
[03:50:04] <ari-free> take your tie off
[03:50:07] <helf> and partying
[03:50:09] <helf> like a viking
[03:50:12] <helf> or a toga
[03:50:19] <DeadYak> helf = frat boy :P
[03:50:32] <helf> but not stooped
[03:50:35] <helf> ;)
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[03:51:23] <ari-free> ok but you don't want to wear a tie and jacket
[03:51:32] <helf> no
[03:51:41] <ari-free> like a formal dinner. you can only enjoy small portions
[03:52:20] <ari-free> one glass of wine
[03:52:32] <helf> ugh
[03:52:35] <helf> thats not a feast
[03:53:23] <ari-free> I'm actually planning one...so i need ideas
[03:54:25] <ari-free> we've got lots of wine
[03:54:42] <helf> lots of MEAT
[03:54:47] <helf> on platters
[03:54:49] <Penix> go grab an 8kg block of cheese
[03:54:50] <helf> whole pigs
[03:54:50] <Penix> done!
[03:54:56] <helf> hahah
[03:55:15] <ari-free> i like whole ducks
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[03:55:24] <helf> turduckin!
[03:55:33] <DHowett> Penix: .. i would LOVE an 8kg block of cheese. What kind?
[03:55:42] <ari-free> naa then the skin isn't crispy
[03:55:51] <Penix> DHowett: depends on the wine I guess
[03:56:14] <DHowett> Penix: True.
[03:56:18] <DHowett> I could go without the wine though :P
[03:56:35] <ari-free> can't have a feast without wine
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[03:56:47] <DHowett> I'd be happy to just feast on said 8kg block of cheese :)
[03:56:50] <DHowett> that'd probably kill me.
[03:56:58] <ari-free> a few weeks ago i had like...several bottles
[03:57:44] <ari-free> all dry and red. i was a little drunk :)
[03:57:55] <DeadYak> I'm not a fan of wine myself
[03:58:01] <DeadYak> cheese though....
[03:58:02] <DeadYak> mmm
[03:58:03] <helf> or beer
[03:58:09] <helf> uh :P
[03:58:10] <ari-free> can't get drunk on cheese
[03:58:11] <helf> i LOVE cheese
[03:58:18] <helf> i just ate a block of extra sharp colby
[03:58:19] <helf> mmm
[03:58:22] <DeadYak> who said I want to get drunk?
[03:58:29] <helf> ive never been drunk and dont want to be drunk
[03:58:34] <helf> i dont see the fun in it
[03:58:55] <ari-free> i never got drunk where i lost control
[03:59:03] <DeadYak> I've been tipsy, it's meh
[03:59:10] <DeadYak> I like alcohol as the occasional social drink
[03:59:15] <DeadYak> that's it
[03:59:23] <helf> yeah
[03:59:24] <DeadYak> binge drinking it, pass.
[03:59:39] <helf> i like the taste of a bunch of ones.. but i dont care to drink it much. and ive only ever been tipsy
[03:59:44] <ari-free> it's hard to get really really drunk when you're drinking wine
[03:59:54] <helf> wine drunk is supposedly the worst
[04:00:00] <DeadYak> yeah but wine has the problem that I find it tastes horrible :P
[04:00:04] <ari-free> those who get really cazy drink hard stuff like scotch
[04:00:17] <helf> i dont see the point in getting drunk
[04:00:26] <helf> people are like "haha, you dont get drunk!? i LOVE it!! duur"
[04:00:33] <helf> waste of money, waste of time.
[04:00:34] <helf> :P
[04:00:46] * helf is super opinionated. ^_^
[04:00:50] <DeadYak> I actually tend to like some of the stuff on the harder side, but that's mostly because a lot of that stuff actually tastes good
[04:01:00] <helf> yeah...
[04:01:08] <helf> stuff I like is expensive :(
[04:01:12] <DeadYak> ditto :/
[04:01:22] <helf> one reason i never get any.. or i cant find it for sale
[04:01:28] <helf> like seven heads. i cnat find it. i love that crap
[04:01:36] <ari-free> if someone is drunk and it makes them a horrible person then that shows he is not fit to drink
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[04:02:50] <ari-free> i have found it tells me about myself
[04:03:05] <ari-free> once a year
[04:03:11] <ari-free> thats it
[04:04:08] * umccullough_work likes good microbrew beers
[04:05:52] <ari-free> meat is always good. it actually tastes good
[04:05:59] <umccullough_work> anyone want to place bets on how long my Dell Optiplex gx280 at work lasts?
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[04:06:13] <umccullough_work> hi Kokito
[04:06:18] <ari-free> hi
[04:06:36] <umccullough_work> ari-free, you mean meade?
[04:06:44] <Kokito> hey umccullough_work
[04:06:56] <ari-free> no i mean ribeye medium rare
[04:06:57] <umccullough_work> Kokito, how did things go yesterday?
[04:07:01] <umccullough_work> ari-free, ah :)
[04:07:05] <ari-free> on the bone and on a wood fire
[04:07:10] <umccullough_work> i'm a red-meat eater :)
[04:07:17] <umccullough_work> medium rare is perfect
[04:07:21] <Kokito> umccullough_work, yesterday was kind of slow (pretty dead until noon actually)
[04:07:40] <Kokito> but it was interesting and as usual good for networking
[04:07:45] <umccullough_work> good
[04:07:54] <ari-free> brisket is very good. you can cook it to death
[04:08:12] * Kokito is still waiting for geist to show up :P
[04:08:15] <umccullough_work> heh
[04:08:18] <umccullough_work> i was wondering...
[04:08:33] <ari-free> did you meet the speakers?
[04:09:01] <umccullough_work> yeah, i was curious if any of the high-profile speakers happened to stop by
[04:09:02] <Kokito> I met with lefty from access and gave him a Haiku t-shirt :)
[04:09:56] <ari-free> what are they doing I wonder. whatever happened to all those Be technology plans for palm
[04:10:01] <Kokito> umccullough_work, not that I know of
[04:10:31] <Kokito> we did hear that Haiku was mentioned during the Google Android talk, but was not there myself
[04:10:46] <DeadYak> during the android talk? o.0? why?
[04:11:31] <helf> haiku is getting all kinds of press :P
[04:11:46] <Kokito> something along the lines "some of our code was inspired by BeOS. oh, and by the way, the Haiku folks are here" something like that
[04:11:51] <DeadYak> ahh
[04:11:54] <DeadYak> ok that makes more sense
[04:12:04] <DeadYak> I know a few ex-be people are on the android project at google
[04:13:34] <umccullough_work> :)
[04:14:08] <umccullough_work> Kokito, did you attend any of the "evening parties" ?
[04:14:40] <Kokito> scott and & went to the Sat night gathering
[04:15:34] <umccullough_work> cool, i didn't know if scott had gone or not
[04:16:18] <Kokito> yes, he did, both Sat & Sun
[04:16:56] <Kokito> bbl
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[04:23:34] <DHowett> Ah, crap.
[04:23:59] <DHowett> "Dustin, do you want to partecipate on SoC with gentoo or with haiku?"
[04:24:41] <umccullough_work> heh
[04:24:52] <DHowett> I don't know what that means. :P
[04:25:03] <umccullough_work> are you signed up for a gentoo project?
[04:25:34] <DHowett> Indeed.
[04:25:56] <umccullough_work> sounds like you're being given a choice - but apparently you can only work on one :P
[04:26:06] <umccullough_work> assuming that question came from a google admin
[04:26:49] <DeadYak> that question would imply that you're in the accepted slot range of both of those projects
[04:27:04] <umccullough_work> yeah, it would seem to imply that
[04:27:09] <DHowett> If I choose to work with gentoo, and the project (HPET support) for haiku doesn't have any one to work for it, I could still work on that, without the stipend.. the money isn't the point.
[04:27:30] <umccullough_work> well, you can work on stuff without being in the SoC :)
[04:27:41] <DHowett> my point exactly
[04:27:41] <DHowett> :)
[04:28:05] <umccullough_work> the question is - would your work on Haiku immediately increase Haiku's ability to go alpha/beta sooner?
[04:28:15] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: HPET is more or less vital
[04:28:16] <umccullough_work> cuz that would color my opinion on what you should work on ;)
[04:28:21] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: especially on modern CPUs
[04:28:34] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: the current/BeOS way of doing timing is more or less fucked on any CPU that does frequency scaling
[04:28:41] <umccullough_work> heh
[04:28:48] <umccullough_work> yeah, i read some of axel's notes about that
[04:29:09] <stpere> night everyone
[04:29:14] <DeadYak> night stpere
[04:29:16] <umccullough_work> granted, timing isn't important for everything
[04:29:22] <umccullough_work> perhaps audio/video stuff
[04:29:29] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: it's important for general sys functionality here also
[04:29:44] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: that kind of thing's why you see BeOS lose minutes on the clock on laptops for instance
[04:29:56] <umccullough_work> like calculating quanta and thread time slices?
[04:30:00] <umccullough_work> oh
[04:30:02] <umccullough_work> well, yeah
[04:30:03] <DeadYak> but yes, things like audio playback will be kinda horked with it too
[04:30:40] <umccullough_work> I'm guessing Haiku could go alpha without it
[04:30:45] <umccullough_work> maybe even beta
[04:30:57] <umccullough_work> but that's IMO of course
[04:31:01] <DeadYak> I'm not sure I'd agree there
[04:31:07] <DeadYak> laptops are increasingly popular nowadays
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[04:31:21] <DeadYak> you can't realistically offer Haiku to someone if you have to tell them "for this to work right you have to disable power management"
[04:31:21] <umccullough_work> yeah, but until someone is using it as an every-day OS... it's not the end of the world
[04:31:49] <umccullough_work> ok, so maybe not beta
[04:32:04] <umccullough_work> but certainly could go alpha
[04:32:14] <DeadYak> sure but it's still pretty important :)
[04:32:19] <umccullough_work> :)
[04:32:32] <DeadYak> it's certainly not something we could release an R1 without
[04:32:34] <ari-free> so is ummm security
[04:32:36] <umccullough_work> agreed
[04:33:06] <umccullough_work> haiku likely benefits from security by obscurity for another couple years
[04:33:24] <helf> heh
[04:33:27] <umccullough_work> even if that's a stupid concept - it still applies realistically
[04:33:34] <ari-free> as someone pointed out, what's the point of a system that boots up quickly if any stupid hacker can shut you down
[04:33:41] <helf> heh
[04:33:50] <umccullough_work> if no hackers care, then it doesn't matter :D
[04:33:51] <DeadYak> ari-free: except they can't unless you have a bunch of stuff listening to be hacked into
[04:33:59] <helf> It'll be interesting to see just how easy haiku is to .. penetrate..
[04:34:07] <umccullough_work> probably easy as pie
[04:34:24] <ari-free> they'll care because haiku is open source and targeting people who are more technical
[04:34:40] <umccullough_work> really? i'm not sure that has plagued other OSS hobby oses
[04:34:44] <DeadYak> why would that matter?
[04:34:50] <umccullough_work> and BeOS was full of holes...
[04:34:51] <DeadYak> most of the people writing malware are doing so for money
[04:34:52] <ari-free> all the slashdotters will know about haiku first
[04:35:02] <DeadYak> i.e. employed in romania and such
[04:35:13] <umccullough_work> don't hear many people complaining that SkyOS is insecure...
[04:35:16] <DeadYak> an OS with at most a few thousand users is entirely uninteresting to someone with that goal
[04:35:21] <umccullough_work> oh wait, not OSS
[04:35:23] <umccullough_work> nm
[04:35:36] <aroman> DeadYak: hey, I'm from romania :P
[04:35:41] <umccullough_work> someone might write an exploit for Haiku just for fun - but it won't be worth anything
[04:35:42] <aroman> originally.....
[04:35:42] <DeadYak> aroman: no offense intended :)
[04:35:47] <aroman> DeadYak: none taken :)
[04:35:50] <aroman> just saying
[04:36:01] <DeadYak> aroman: but we've had a few servers at customers that've been hacked by romanians a few times now
[04:36:05] <DeadYak> aroman: total cat and mouse game
[04:36:10] <aroman> they've actually been cracking down a LOT on them nowadays
[04:36:18] <aroman> from what I hear
[04:36:19] <umccullough_work> an exploit for Haiku is like telling someone you know how to melt butter
[04:36:26] <aroman> haha
[04:36:46] <aroman> I know how to get it to crash, actually... just try to check out the svn tree :P
[04:36:52] <aroman> it WILL crash :)
[04:36:53] <DeadYak> that works for me :)
[04:36:58] <DeadYak> with how much RAM?
[04:37:02] <aroman> 512
[04:37:04] <umccullough_work> aroman, what network card?
[04:37:05] <DeadYak> ah
[04:37:06] <DeadYak> 1GB here
[04:37:07] <umccullough_work> oh, low ram
[04:37:09] <DeadYak> and nforce eth
[04:37:12] <aroman> intel pro 1000
[04:37:14] <ari-free> I think R1 will be used by audio systems not connected to the net
[04:37:17] <DeadYak> I can do a checkout
[04:37:18] <umccullough_work> ah yeah, the ipro1000 is solid
[04:37:30] <umccullough_work> ari-free, i think R1 will be used for people wriiting R2 ;)
[04:37:33] <DeadYak> I'll hit vfork: out of memory if I try to do a compile right afterwards though
[04:37:50] <umccullough_work> R1 is going to be a proof-of-concept milestone
[04:37:50] <aroman> LOW? lol since when is 512 *that* low?
[04:37:59] <aroman> what? isn't free() implemented in the kernel? :P
[04:38:03] <umccullough_work> aroman, since it has no virtual memory
[04:38:06] <DeadYak> aroman: it is but there's issues in the VM
[04:38:08] <aroman> oh :P
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[04:38:16] <ari-free> yes so my question then becomes...why would hpet be a necessity
[04:38:28] <DeadYak> ari-free: I already stated a few reasons
[04:38:38] <umccullough_work> a clock that is accurate would definitely be a good reason
[04:38:51] <DeadYak> a clock that's accurate, audio that plays at the correct pitch
[04:38:53] <DeadYak> etc.
[04:38:56] <ari-free> for an OS that won't actually be used?
[04:39:07] <DeadYak> ari-free: if you're going to go with that attitude, why are you here?
[04:39:08] <umccullough_work> it'll be used by the hobbyists
[04:39:33] <ari-free> r2 will be used
[04:39:38] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, to be fair, he's extending the argument I started ;)
[04:39:53] <umccullough_work> but i stopped at beta
[04:39:56] <DeadYak> sure but it seems like a facetious argument
[04:40:08] <DeadYak> I mean, you may as well argue, why bother at all, it's only going to be a niche os
[04:40:14] <umccullough_work> granted, BeOS seems to have survived with cpu timing glitches
[04:40:29] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: I've seen plenty of people complain about video and such playing at the wrong speed
[04:40:42] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, yes - and it's unacceptable
[04:40:45] <umccullough_work> but not the end of the world ;)
[04:41:09] <DeadYak> right, but "Beta" generally implies feature complete with hopefully not very many bugs remaining
[04:41:10] <DeadYak> or used to.
[04:41:11] <umccullough_work> in any case, i completely welcome HPET
[04:41:21] <DeadYak> I don't consider it feature complete without HPET
[04:41:26] <umccullough_work> ok, that's fair
[04:41:28] <ari-free> there are a lot of things people will have a problem with. I will 'use' r1 but I doubt it could be a primary OS
[04:41:36] <DeadYak> it can for me
[04:41:44] <DeadYak> I don't really need very many win or OSX-specific apps
[04:41:58] <DeadYak> everything I need to do I can get done either online or with stuff BeOS/Haiku already has
[04:42:03] <umccullough_work> before the last few months, i couldn't consider linux usable as my primary OS - but then i started using it...
[04:42:09] <DHowett> I think i'll work on it outside SoC.. lessen the pressure of it while still being able to be a part of Haiku. :P
[04:42:10] <umccullough_work> and i could probably switch now
[04:42:13] <DeadYak> only reason I'm not using BeOS now is the fact that it works like ass on my current boxes
[04:42:24] <DeadYak> i.e. doesn't boot at all
[04:42:25] <ari-free> it's not theapps...I have a concern over security
[04:42:33] <DeadYak> never had a problem in the past
[04:42:42] <umccullough_work> ari-free, so use it behind NAT
[04:42:52] <DeadYak> same logic as anything else applies, be a paranoid user
[04:42:59] <DeadYak> ultimately most exploits are social in nature nowadays
[04:43:23] <umccullough_work> firefox on beos probably already exposes exploitable holes - but that doesn't seem to stop anyone
[04:43:29] <ari-free> maybe that's te problem...i'm too paranoid :)
[04:43:41] <umccullough_work> ari-free, then you should be using OpenBSD or something
[04:43:52] <DeadYak> have you personally vetted every app and service that you use on your current OS? :p
[04:44:01] <DeadYak> how do you know there aren't exploits waiting to pwn you right now?
[04:44:14] <umccullough_work> even if there are...so what
[04:44:25] <DeadYak> unless you're one of the masochists that uses SELinux at max settings, which imo makes the desktop nearly unusable...
[04:44:26] <ari-free> i have tools for that
[04:44:33] <umccullough_work> most of them are only capable of crashing the app/OS
[04:44:37] <DeadYak> tools that'll automatically find every explot in code?
[04:44:38] <umccullough_work> tools
[04:44:41] <DeadYak> better let people know
[04:44:45] <DeadYak> exploit*
[04:45:02] <umccullough_work> the tools are the people who feed the hype ;)
[04:45:07] <umccullough_work> but now i'm just getting nasty
[04:45:23] <ari-free> simple things like a firewall
[04:45:31] <umccullough_work> what's a firewall?
[04:45:41] <umccullough_work> i just use NAT
[04:45:44] <DeadYak> a firewall does nothing to stop an overflow exploit in firefox
[04:45:47] <Penix> a firewall has nothing to do with poorly written code in an app
[04:46:06] <DeadYak> a firewall is also more or less irrelevant if you have no listening services
[04:46:19] <aroman> ok the logs I got are with the display glitch and without... I've saved both of them (hopefully), and rebooted cleanly (shutdown -r). I'll get them and post them on the mailing list
[04:46:24] <umccullough_work> something like ZoneAlarm provides outgoing alerts to the user that some software wants to access the internet
[04:46:30] <umccullough_work> big f'ing deal
[04:46:40] <umccullough_work> pretty much everything on my computer accesses the internet at some point :)
[04:47:09] <ari-free> well I didn't expect notepad to have a problem until one time...
[04:47:31] <umccullough_work> cuz it got pwnd
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[04:47:40] <ari-free> exactly
[04:47:50] <umccullough_work> probably due to some activity that shouldn't have occurred
[04:48:05] <umccullough_work> your firewall didn't catch the incoming thread
[04:48:07] <umccullough_work> threat
[04:48:11] <ari-free> and i was able to fix it
[04:48:21] <umccullough_work> yeah, i usually fix that also - by deleting it
[04:48:26] <ari-free> how do you think i knew there was a problem
[04:48:33] <umccullough_work> when my network activity goes up
[04:48:36] <umccullough_work> and my machine runs slow
[04:48:45] <umccullough_work> and my task manager shows clearly that something is wrong
[04:48:49] <ari-free> the firewall told me
[04:48:54] <umccullough_work> and i run netstat and it tells me what's going on
[04:49:11] <umccullough_work> we're clearly talking about windows here...
[04:49:45] <umccullough_work> if i suspect something, then I bust out a million different AV products (cuz it takes all of them to find something) and eradicate the issue
[04:49:53] <umccullough_work> i *hate* that shit
[04:50:01] <umccullough_work> so i immediately uninstall it until next time
[04:50:05] <ari-free> and i'm concerned haiku won't be as secure as even windows
[04:50:11] <umccullough_work> big deal
[04:50:14] <umccullough_work> don't use it
[04:50:51] <ari-free> but we want people to use it
[04:50:54] <umccullough_work> *or* write this firewall software that you believe will protect you
[04:51:48] <umccullough_work> I'm thinking that the people who write Haiku do so because *they* want to use it...all of us on the sidelines are just hoping we can also use it ;)
[04:52:21] <umccullough_work> anyhow, i gotta get some work done...
[04:52:26] <ari-free> :)
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[04:55:27] <helf> omg
[04:55:40] <helf> $3995.00 for that EV kit
[04:55:46] <helf> "3995"
[04:55:55] <helf> I can buy a subaru SVX for that
[04:56:44] <umccullough_work> but, why would you want a subaru svx?
[04:56:49] <umccullough_work> ;)
[04:56:52] <helf> ...
[04:56:56] <helf> hardy har har ;P
[04:57:01] <umccullough_work> i hate subarus
[04:57:09] <helf> heh
[04:57:10] <umccullough_work> except i wouldn't mind having a wrx
[04:57:16] <helf> i wouldnt get an svx.. probably..
[04:57:28] <helf> I'd love an Audi Ur Quattro.. 1985... mmmmm
[04:57:39] <umccullough_work> i used to have an old subaru gl sedan - 80s
[04:57:44] <umccullough_work> *hated* it
[04:57:47] <helf> pahahahahhaha
[04:57:52] <umccullough_work> gutless pos
[04:57:54] <helf> hahah oh hahahaha
[04:58:03] * helf falls over
[04:58:22] <helf> *wipes tears away* I'm sorry you had to go through that
[04:58:22] <umccullough_work> at least it had an 1800
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[04:58:38] <umccullough_work> but yeah, suck
[04:58:40] <helf> 1800cc?
[04:58:42] <helf> hahaha
[04:58:43] <umccullough_work> yea
[04:58:43] <helf> ;P
[04:58:48] <umccullough_work> as opposed to the 1600 model
[04:58:53] <helf> my spitfire was 1500cc.. but it screamed :)
[04:59:04] <umccullough_work> before that I had an 81 corolla 4spd
[04:59:10] <umccullough_work> *that* car was fun ;)
[04:59:15] <umccullough_work> rear wheel drive
[04:59:19] <umccullough_work> 2 door
[04:59:20] <helf> my rabbit probably beats your gl in gutlessness :)
[04:59:45] <helf> seriously, i leave my foot on the floor, completely, and it takes about 40 seconds to hit 50mph.
[04:59:48] <umccullough_work> heh
[04:59:54] <helf> 1st is good to about 5mph
[04:59:55] <umccullough_work> my corolla died via deer
[05:00:06] <umccullough_work> at well over 85mph (speedo stopped there)
[05:00:08] <ari-free> might as well just take a bus
[05:00:11] <helf> you sound like you are WINDING OUT.. and going FAST.. then your elderly neighbor walks by
[05:00:33] <helf> if i hadnt blown something on it, i'd take a video of it in .. action.. hehe
[05:00:35] <ari-free> and beats you
[05:00:36] <umccullough_work> the only reason the deer didn't land in my lap was because the hood covered the windshield before it hit it
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[05:00:47] <helf> ouch, umccullough
[05:00:57] <umccullough_work> thus, windshield meets hood
[05:01:07] <umccullough_work> front end buckled at the firewall too
[05:01:16] <helf> good lord
[05:01:17] <umccullough_work> and parts of the engine weren't in the right spots ;)
[05:01:22] <umccullough_work> i.e. distributor was...gone
[05:01:26] <DeadYak> glad you didn't get hurt
[05:01:29] <DeadYak> or did you?>
[05:01:33] <umccullough_work> radiator...near windshield
[05:01:40] <umccullough_work> nah, i was fine
[05:01:44] <umccullough_work> except my pride
[05:01:50] <helf> http://helf.freeshell.org/rx-7.jpg
[05:01:51] <umccullough_work> scared the shit out of me though
[05:01:52] <helf> my worst :P
[05:01:53] <DeadYak> car took one for the team eh?
[05:02:00] <helf> yeah, i bet
[05:02:09] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, that car was done
[05:02:13] <helf> were you the only occupant?
[05:02:16] <umccullough_work> i actually sold it for $350
[05:02:18] <umccullough_work> yeah
[05:02:23] <umccullough_work> helf, ouchies
[05:02:28] <zlominus_haiku> when porting software to haiku should get_image_symbol() be used or posix dlsym() ?
[05:03:03] <zlominus_haiku> as I see dlsym is a wrapper to get_image_symbol
[05:03:24] <umccullough_work> the subaru was hit by a deer also...but it just bounced off the front drivers side fender and left a dent
[05:03:33] <umccullough_work> seriously, the deer ran into me!
[05:03:56] <umccullough_work> deer would have been fine if he hadn't gotten hit by the car coming the other direction after bouncing
[05:04:04] <umccullough_work> truck
[05:04:13] <helf> lol
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[05:04:50] <umccullough_work> i never got any pics of my vehicular destruction days...
[05:05:12] <helf> i have mine for my scrapbook ;P
[05:05:26] <helf> ... i need to do a "vehicles ive owned and destroyed" scrapbook
[05:06:11] <helf> http://helf.freeshell.org/rabbit/right_side.JPG
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[05:06:18] <umccullough_work> i've boo-boo'd my truck a couple times
[05:06:27] <helf> that suckers speedo maxes out at 85.. im not sure it could *hit* 85
[05:06:29] * [Katisu] notes deer are one of the main reasons not to speed in PA
[05:06:36] <umccullough_work> had to replace the front drivers side suspension components once
[05:06:41] <[Katisu]> that, and all the lousy roads :P
[05:07:03] <umccullough_work> [Katisu], yeah, i tend to drive pretty carefully during "deer season"
[05:07:12] <umccullough_work> too many close calls and actual hits :P
[05:07:28] <helf> my van has been beat to hell and bakc nad still runs.. mostly. engine is going out finally
[05:07:31] <umccullough_work> in fact, i spend a lot of time dodging deer already down'd
[05:07:47] <helf> thats crazy
[05:07:54] <helf> we never hit deer here
[05:07:57] <umccullough_work> sucks to live in a rural area
[05:08:01] <helf> they are apparnetly smarter than their northern kin
[05:08:02] <[Katisu]> it's lovely when the tractor trailers hit them :P
[05:08:04] <helf> we have a ton here
[05:08:13] <helf> *sploosh*
[05:08:14] <umccullough_work> [Katisu], deersplosion!
[05:08:20] <helf> *windshield wipers*
[05:08:30] <[Katisu]> at least a 10 foot smear on the road
[05:08:36] <helf> heh
[05:08:56] <helf> ive only ever hit squirrels, dogs... people.
[05:09:01] <umccullough_work> people...
[05:09:13] <umccullough_work> i'm guessing that left mess ;)
[05:09:31] <helf> she shouldnt have been pushing that baby stroller! ok! :(
[05:09:48] * umccullough_work suddenly realized he was listening to hakuna-matada
[05:09:56] <helf> what a wonderful life
[05:10:09] <umccullough_work> fucking random play
[05:10:21] <helf> i drove up to work with the stereo blasting one day
[05:10:25] <[Katisu]> I've bumped a deer, and hit groundhogs, squirrels, and a bird or two
[05:10:33] <helf> wasnt even paying attention.. was blaring baby got back
[05:10:34] <umccullough_work> bird ...
[05:10:41] <umccullough_work> i found a bird in my radiator once
[05:10:55] <helf> ive hit a bird. heh, bounce off the windshield :)
[05:12:30] <[Katisu]> I have to laugh about the deer, hit in the left front and kept going
[05:12:41] <[Katisu]> I stopped to check my car for damage
[05:12:55] <[Katisu]> and the lady behind said the "deer" was fine
[05:13:06] <[Katisu]> I wasn't looking for the deer :P
[05:13:37] <helf> heh
[05:13:43] <umccullough_work> :)
[05:14:58] <helf>
[05:15:01] <helf> er
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[05:15:23] <[Katisu]> the fact that it ran off so fast pretty much said I didn't hit it very hard
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[05:30:37] <Schmedly3D> Ooh are we trading vehicular war stories?
[05:30:43] <aroman> umccullough_work: you have a dell optiplex gx270 or something right? with the intel extreme 865G gfx?
[05:31:01] <helf> Schmedly3D : have any? :)
[05:31:04] <umccullough_work> aroman, yeah
[05:31:09] <Schmedly3D> Yep
[05:31:24] <umccullough_work> aroman, with replaced capacitors :)
[05:31:25] <Schmedly3D> 1995, two weeks before Christmas
[05:31:32] <aroman> but umccullough_work did you have to do anything to get it to work? I cannot get mine to work and I see no prints in the syslog... nothing
[05:31:36] <aroman> umccullough_work: nice :)
[05:31:49] <umccullough_work> aroman, mine works fine
[05:31:50] <Schmedly3D> Kawasaki ex-500 meets front bumper of red light running police car
[05:32:00] <aroman> umccullough_work: :( k
[05:32:03] <umccullough_work> aroman, you know those machines are known for bulging capacitors right?
[05:32:10] <umccullough_work> makes them fail at all sorts of things
[05:32:14] <aroman> really?
[05:32:15] <aroman> :(
[05:32:21] <aroman> which caps in particular?
[05:32:26] <umccullough_work> pop open the case sometime and make sure none of the caps are bulging
[05:32:27] <aroman> or just all of them?
[05:32:30] <umccullough_work> aroman, most of them
[05:32:34] <aroman> will do...
[05:32:45] <umccullough_work> it causes video problems first and foremost
[05:32:53] <aroman> when I get back home I'll replace them if they are bulging... I have a soldering iron back home :)
[05:32:57] <aroman> umccullough_work: wow
[05:32:58] <Schmedly3D> sadly I don't have any pictures of the bike before or after the accident :|
[05:32:59] <aroman> lol
[05:33:02] <helf> Schmedly3D ouch!
[05:33:09] <aroman> you may have just explained my problem... I'll pop it open
[05:33:47] <Schmedly3D> helf: It's been long enough though.. I'm actually looking at buying a bike right now :)
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[05:35:10] <Schmedly3D> I just can't decide if I want to wait and see about the Triumph Street Triple or just get something else that's readily available
[05:35:32] <umccullough_work> aroman, http://www.google.com/search?q=gx270+capacitors
[05:38:31] <aroman> umccullough_work: they seem fine... :/
[05:38:36] <umccullough_work> :)
[05:38:41] <umccullough_work> maybe they already got replaced in the past
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[05:38:52] <aroman> :/
[05:39:27] <umccullough_work> so, your video issues...
[05:39:34] <umccullough_work> i can send you a syslog from my machine if that helps
[05:39:47] <aroman> that would help, yes..
[05:39:49] <umccullough_work> i've also updated my gx270 to the latest firmware - maybe that helps
[05:39:56] <aroman> at least to see what prints to expect from the intel driver
[05:39:59] <umccullough_work> sure
[05:40:00] <aroman> because I am seeing none...
[05:40:09] <aroman> and I even enabled DEBUG for that directory
[05:40:20] <umccullough_work> aroman, you've mentioned it on the mailing list right?
[05:40:22] <umccullough_work> or trac?
[05:40:31] <aroman> umccullough_work: on the mailing list
[05:40:36] <umccullough_work> i think i saw
[05:40:39] <umccullough_work> hang on
[05:40:46] <aroman> umccullough_work: I will try to see what I can do tonight
[05:41:03] <aroman> and if nothing gets resolved I'll post my findings, maybe Axel has some hints
[05:41:14] <umccullough_work> btw, make sure you check all the caps that are hidden under the heatsinks and stuff
[05:41:29] <umccullough_work> ah, you are alex roman
[05:41:30] <umccullough_work> right
[05:41:38] <umccullough_work> i'll email you a syslog tonight if I remember
[05:41:40] <aroman> umccullough_work: yeah, I'm having troubles removing the stupid fan :P
[05:41:46] <umccullough_work> don't remove it
[05:41:48] <aroman> umccullough_work: thanks! and yes, that's me :)
[05:41:58] <umccullough_work> unless you want to put more heatsink compound on it
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[05:42:03] <umccullough_work> but it's nasty to remove
[05:42:13] <aroman> nono... it's the fan that's next to my CPU
[05:42:18] <umccullough_work> oh
[05:42:24] <aroman> it has just a radiator on the CPU
[05:42:25] <umccullough_work> strange...i think mine only has the one fan on the CPU
[05:42:40] <umccullough_work> i'll take a pic - there were different gx270 models made
[05:42:52] <umccullough_work> maybe that's part of the problem :/
[05:43:00] <aroman> and then a fan above and to the right with a pipe to the radiator
[05:43:01] <aroman> yeah
[05:43:05] <aroman> I'll take a pic too
[05:43:11] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: his devid is in intel_extreme's supported list
[05:43:33] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, yeah, but there are probably other differences that are good to note :)
[05:43:47] <umccullough_work> i actually don't remember if mine is i865 or i845
[05:43:52] <DeadYak> his is 865
[05:43:53] <umccullough_work> i know i've posted a devicelist
[05:44:02] <DeadYak> based off intel_extreme's ID array anyhow
[05:44:24] <umccullough_work> yes, mine is 865
[05:44:25] <DeadYak> {0x2572, INTEL_TYPE_85x, "i865G"}, - iirc
[05:44:34] <umccullough_work> yeah
[05:47:27] <aroman> umccullough_work: let me see where I can post the pictures
[05:47:35] <umccullough_work> flickr works :)
[05:47:45] <aroman> no account...
[05:47:48] <zlominus> aroman: imageshack.us
[05:47:52] <umccullough_work> picasa
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[05:50:47] <umccullough_work> aroman, you can just email them to me if you want
[05:51:04] <aroman> umccullough_work: what's your email? tell me on private if you want
[05:51:19] <umccullough_work> i can't - but it's my nick (withouth _work) @gmail.com
[05:51:32] <aroman> http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01868dg0.jpg
[05:51:45] <umccullough_work> oh wow
[05:51:46] <aroman> that's one of them
[05:51:49] <umccullough_work> whole different machine
[05:51:52] <aroman> haha
[05:51:53] <umccullough_work> is that an SX270?
[05:51:59] <aroman> :/
[05:52:15] <aroman> not sure actually.. the guy I bought it from said it was an optiplex gx 270
[05:52:21] <umccullough_work> perhaps the GX270 came in tower *and* small form factor
[05:52:27] <umccullough_work> mine is a small form factor case
[05:52:45] <umccullough_work> yours has two sata connectors - mine has one
[05:52:57] <umccullough_work> heh, you'll be surprised at the difference ;)
[05:53:02] <umccullough_work> hang on, i have one pic that might help
[05:53:15] <umccullough_work> i'm not at home currently, but it's already on my flickr page
[05:53:33] <Schmedly3D> that almost looks like a dimension 4550 but the board has too many DIMM slots
[05:53:36] <umccullough_work> http://flickr.com/photos/umccullough/1333415219/
[05:53:45] <umccullough_work> that machine opened up in the foreground is my gx270
[05:53:56] <umccullough_work> without the processor on it
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[05:54:26] <aroman> umccullough_work: yeah, looks like you have the small form factor
[05:55:13] <umccullough_work> yeah, i guess they used the same moniker for both form factors
[05:55:38] <aroman> ugh
[05:55:39] <umccullough_work> http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-of-10-Dell-Optiplex-GX270-SFF-Desktop-P4-2-8Ghz_W0QQitemZ230240697774QQihZ013QQcategoryZ179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:55:42] <umccullough_work> http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-of-5-Dell-Optiplex-GX270-Towers-P4-2-8Ghz-160GB_W0QQitemZ270227029460QQihZ017QQcategoryZ179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:55:49] <aroman> I might remove the mobo and look at the caps more closely...
[05:56:22] <aroman> umccullough_work: the second one is the one I have :)
[05:56:23] <umccullough_work> the ones closest to the processor are the most likely to go
[05:56:28] <umccullough_work> pull back the green hood to see most of them
[05:56:37] <aroman> yeah I did that
[05:56:38] <umccullough_work> yeah, i have the first one ;)
[05:56:49] <umccullough_work> i have a gx280 here at work that is a tower
[05:57:03] <aroman> they should be bulging at the top right?
[05:57:13] <umccullough_work> yeah, dome-top is bulging
[05:57:20] <umccullough_work> that's BAD
[05:57:33] <umccullough_work> should be perfectly flat, sometimes even inverted slightly
[05:57:45] <helf> night all
[05:57:49] <aroman> they are all good...
[05:58:02] <aroman> I touched them and the top is flat or, like you said a bit concave
[05:58:11] <aroman> like all normal electrolytics...
[05:58:12] <umccullough_work> cool
[05:58:25] <umccullough_work> yeah, i've dealt with several machines now with bad caps
[05:58:36] <umccullough_work> http://flickr.com/photos/umccullough/554820958/
[05:59:49] <aroman> oh yeah, I'd definitely recognize something like THAT :)
[06:00:04] <aroman> I'm putting optiplex back together for now...
[06:00:21] <DeadYak> uh...yikes
[06:00:24] <DeadYak> didn't realize they were *THAT* bad
[06:00:30] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, that wasn't from the gx270
[06:00:35] <umccullough_work> that was an old PIII board
[06:00:44] <umccullough_work> the gx270 was...noticeable ;)
[06:00:45] <DeadYak> ah
[06:00:49] <umccullough_work> i've got a pic or two of it before i replaced it
[06:01:04] <umccullough_work> actually, the dual-proc athlon from geist has a couple bulging caps on it now...
[06:01:11] <umccullough_work> maybe did before, didn't notice until recently
[06:01:21] <umccullough_work> anyhow, it's offline until i can replace those
[06:02:05] <umccullough_work> and a small formfactor PIII NEC PowerMate ES someone gave me was covered with bad caps too
[06:02:19] <umccullough_work> fixed them up, but the HD had toasted itself apparently
[06:02:34] <umccullough_work> it runs Haiku now, but only in VESA mode
[06:03:32] <umccullough_work> aroman, you're fortunately - your gx270 has 4 dimm slots
[06:03:43] <umccullough_work> mine only has 2 - so i put two 512s on it :)
[06:04:04] <umccullough_work> fortunate that is
[06:04:07] <aroman> umccullough_work: yep :) 4 dimms
[06:04:31] <aroman> brb (laundry)
[06:06:00] <umccullough_work> yeah, i'm heading home to finish work from there
[06:06:01] <umccullough_work> ttyl
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[06:06:11] <DeadYak> see ya
[06:06:12] <DeadYak> erk
[06:06:13] <DeadYak> too late
[06:11:35] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24963 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/shared/AutoDeleter.h: Added CObjectDeleter class, which invokes a given destructor function.
[06:11:58] * DeadYak looks at clock
[06:13:46] <aroman> I'm back...
[06:13:50] <aroman> who's bonefish, btw?
[06:13:52] <aroman> :P
[06:13:55] <DeadYak> Ingo Weinhold
[06:14:19] <aroman> and he's in Europe somewhere? :P
[06:14:23] <DeadYak> Germany
[06:14:39] <aroman> :) thought so.... wow does he sleep usually? :P
[06:14:47] <DeadYak> I've wondered that before...
[06:15:05] <DeadYak> watching the commits roll by at midnight, 1am, 2am, 3am....7am (his time)
[06:15:08] <DeadYak> makes you wonder :)
[06:15:15] <ari-free> you can't compare him to normal humans :)
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[06:24:55] <Schmedly3D> i
[06:29:06] <DeadYak> off to bed here..
[06:29:07] <DeadYak> night guys
[06:29:14] <aroman> night DeadYak!
[06:29:36] <DeadYak> see ya tomorrow :)
[06:30:03] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24964 /haiku/trunk/ (8 files in 6 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[06:30:03] <CIA-34> * Added <sys/mman.h> header. It declares only mmap() and munmap() yet
[06:30:03] <CIA-34>  and defines the macros needed by them.
[06:30:03] <CIA-34> * Renamed syscall sys_vm_map_file() to _kern_map_file() and changed the
[06:30:03] <CIA-34>  path to an FD parameter. Changed vm_map_file() accordingly and
[06:30:03] <CIA-34>  adjusted the kernel ELF loader and the runtime loader.
[06:30:06] <CIA-34> * Added syscall _kern_unmap_memory().
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[07:10:48] <umccullough> aroman, found some pictures ;)
[07:10:54] <umccullough> will upload to my flickr in a few
[07:12:51] <aroman> umccullough: hey
[07:14:20] <aroman> umccullough: do prints from the intel_extreme driver show up in syslog at all? I even explicitly compiled the driver with DEBUG on and set syslog_debug_output to true in the /boot/home/config/settings/kernel/drivers/kernel file
[07:14:39] <aroman> I'm stumped at the moment :(
[07:14:45] <umccullough> you don't have to add any debug for it to show up
[07:15:08] <umccullough> aroman, i'll check syslog - i *know* it shows up in the serial debug
[07:15:18] <umccullough> which isn't exactly the same, but should be mostly teh same content
[07:15:33] <aroman> crap...
[07:15:40] <umccullough> btw, null modem serial cables are teh awesome
[07:15:43] <aroman> :( I'll see if I can get my usb-serial to work
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[07:15:57] <umccullough> your gx270 doesn't have a serial port?
[07:15:58] <aroman> but it's got the crappy pl2033 or something like that chip
[07:16:00] <aroman> not the ftdi
[07:16:06] <aroman> my laptop doesn't have serial :P
[07:16:09] <umccullough> ah
[07:16:20] * umccullough has countless computers sitting around him
[07:16:37] <umccullough> anyhow, gimme a bit, i'll warm up the gx270 and see what i see :)
[07:16:46] * aroman wishes he had one of the coverters based on the ftdi2232 chips
[07:16:54] <aroman> thanks umccullough
[07:16:57] * umccullough svn ups
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[07:20:56] <umccullough> aroman, http://www.flickr.com/photos/umccullough/2415712600/
[07:21:01] <umccullough> and http://www.flickr.com/photos/umccullough/2414890479/
[07:21:23] <umccullough> click the "all sizes" icon above the image to get the fullsize pic
[07:22:54] <aroman> yyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[07:22:57] <aroman> :P
[07:23:04] <aroman> I got debugging messages
[07:23:07] <aroman> through the serial port!
[07:23:10] <umccullough> :)
[07:23:12] <umccullough> so, not in syslog?
[07:23:14] <aroman> and i see intel_extreme prints!
[07:23:15] <aroman> nope
[07:23:18] <aroman> not in the syslog
[07:23:20] <umccullough> interesting
[07:23:42] <umccullough> your syslog you posted before looked chopped
[07:23:51] <umccullough> i wonder if it didn't write the whole thing to disk
[07:24:10] <aroman> well, I took some syslogs "normally" and they were the same
[07:24:17] <umccullough> strange
[07:24:58] <umccullough> i always use the serial log - there are some things that get dumped out before the syslog daemon starts
[07:25:18] <umccullough> and also, all KDL output goes to the serial port as well, which is handy for debugging a KDL on boot
[07:25:48] <aroman> wow.. I'm surprised by the fact that my serial dongle didn't drop any characters
[07:26:01] <aroman> I think prolific updated their drivers to not suck anymore
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[07:28:16] <umccullough> heh
[07:28:35] <umccullough> somewhere i have a usb->serial convertor
[07:29:05] <umccullough> wow...
[07:29:49] <umccullough> 24oz heineken... should help :)
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[07:39:59] <aroman> umccullough: I've sent the message to haiku-development, if you want to take a look at it
[07:40:15] <aroman> umccullough: if you can send me your log, I could try to compare the two
[07:40:24] <aroman> brb
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[07:44:50] <umccullough> sure, will send shortly
[07:45:10] <umccullough> building fresh haiku now
[07:45:27] <umccullough> 2
[07:45:29] <umccullough> oops
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[07:51:00] <agrebnev> Hello All. I have Zeta 1.2 and want to install vlance driver in order to have correct work under VMWare Player. How can I install vlance-0.6zeta.pkg ?
[07:53:15] <Penix> agrebnev: there's a Zeta IRC server/channel IIRC
[07:54:41] <agrebnev> Penix: On irc.freenode.net ?
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[08:02:13] <umccullough> last I tested zeta - i thought 1.2 came with vlance
[08:02:20] <umccullough> but hey, that was a long time ago
[08:02:28] <umccullough> and zeta sucks :)
[08:02:50] <umccullough> for vmware, beos r5 max v4 is quite nice
[08:03:21] <Penix> agrebnev: google would probably be more help than here
[08:05:04] <agrebnev> I tried in Google. I know that .pkg can be installed by SoftwareValet but it looks like my Zeta does not have it.
[08:05:35] <umccullough> .pkg was a proprietary format
[08:05:51] <umccullough> zeta developers did not have the source code to software valet, so they may not have supported it
[08:06:26] <umccullough> anyhow, lost cause - just change your vmx file to emulate e1000 for the network device and then zeta will use the ipro1000 driver which works well
[08:06:39] <umccullough> vlance driver sucks ass anyway
[08:07:19] <umccullough> and damn - zeta in vmware is painful
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[08:08:09] <agrebnev> I tried with e1000 and I did not see my eth in ifconfig. Are there possibility to activate it or see some logs?
[08:08:52] <umccullough> i dunno... seriously you're not going to find a lot of help - zeta sort of came and went - those who like it don't hang out here much
[08:09:04] <umccullough> at least, not this time of day
[08:09:58] <umccullough> kinda left the beos/haiku community with a black eye ;)
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[08:11:56] <agrebnev> Thanks :)
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[08:15:44] <umccullough> aroman, looks like something has gone horribly wrong with the intel_extreme accelerant now :(
[08:15:52] <umccullough> it crashes easily
[08:15:55] <aroman> umccullough: oh?
[08:16:15] <umccullough> i'm ognna revert to before the common accelerant checkin and see if that changes anything
[08:16:16] <aroman> I looked at the log you sent, and other than the different mode... not much is different...
[08:16:27] <umccullough> yeah, as long as i don't do anything it runs
[08:16:43] <umccullough> i dragged the Terminal window and let go of it and CRASH!
[08:16:48] <umccullough> repeatable every time here
[08:17:02] <umccullough> i captured the crash in another serial log
[08:17:08] <umccullough> will probably file a trac ticket for that
[08:23:08] <aroman> yeah I dunno what's up with my display
[08:23:25] <aroman> might be that the monitor is fubar...
[08:23:38] <aroman> it's not even mine, found it in the house I'm living in now :P
[08:23:58] <aroman> but then again, it works in linux, so it should work in Haiku as well
[08:25:07] <aroman> hmm... the monitor just flickered (for 1 sec turned off then back on as if the mode changed)
[08:25:10] <aroman> O_o
[08:25:40] <umccullough> heh
[08:25:48] <umccullough> yeah, funky CRTs are... no fun
[08:26:08] <umccullough> linux makes things work that sometimes don't otherwise ;)
[08:26:15] <aroman> I have a 22" CRT back home... it's BEAUTIFUL :P
[08:26:26] <aroman> umccullough: I agree about linux :P
[08:26:34] <aroman> hacky :P
[08:26:37] <umccullough> the intel_extreme driver is *not* smart about modes yet
[08:26:37] <aroman> but works :)
[08:27:11] <umccullough> i just got this 24" samsunch lcd
[08:27:15] <umccullough> samsung
[08:27:31] <umccullough> not bad i guess
[08:27:47] <umccullough> i was using a 21" CRT previously that supported pretty high res
[08:28:00] <aroman> a new LCD is not in my current budget right now... maybe next year
[08:28:36] <umccullough> this one was $389 after rebate
[08:28:47] <umccullough> of course, the tax bumped it well over $400 :(
[08:30:21] <__ToddB__> use Sony Bravia 37" for my desktop monitor
[08:30:37] <aroman> what happened to the non-bfs filesystems anyways?
[08:30:41] <umccullough> heh
[08:30:50] <__ToddB__> have dvi to hdmi adaptor
[08:30:53] <aroman> some api change from what I hear?
[08:30:59] <umccullough> __ToddB__, i've been considering hooking the sony bravia in my living room up to my pc ;)
[08:30:59] <geist> right
[08:31:19] <umccullough> but it's a 70"
[08:31:45] <umccullough> and unfortunately, my PC doesn't have DVI out currently :P
[08:32:22] <aroman> what's the revision of the fs api change?
[08:32:33] <aroman> been meaning to look at it...
[08:34:01] <umccullough> been a while now
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[08:34:07] <umccullough> don't remember when that happened
[08:38:24] <aroman> to build say the iso9660 fs (assuming it builds), do I just run jam in the dir where it resides?
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[08:45:22] <aroman> blah... I need to sleep
[08:45:25] <aroman> night all
[08:45:32] <aroman> umccullough: thanks again for all the help :)
[08:45:46] <umccullough> no problem :)
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[09:07:09] <ddew|bofh> 'lo
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[09:20:41] <Thom_Holwerda> ola
[09:22:08] <ddew|bofh> yo
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[09:51:29] <ThomHolwerda> ola again
[09:51:46] <ddew|bofh> wb
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[09:57:27] <ThomHolwerda> using nlite for the first time
[09:57:42] <ThomHolwerda> tricky, since im using windows mce 2005 which comes on two CDs
[09:57:43] <ddew|bofh> nlite or vlite?
[09:57:46] <ddew|bofh> ah
[09:57:47] <ThomHolwerda> three, actually
[09:58:04] <ThomHolwerda> so im not really sure what to do with the other two CDs
[09:58:19] <ddew|bofh> the mce version i have is on a dvd, was still way tricky to get it working
[09:58:58] <ddew|bofh> appearantly the mce bits are bolted on after the first reboot
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[10:08:15] <ThomHolwerda> jesus you have to manually download all the update packages? bah, no automation?
[10:08:21] <ThomHolwerda> ill skip that part.
[10:09:11] <ddew|bofh> they were on the disc and it was done automatically, they just installed on the first reboot
[10:09:22] <ThomHolwerda> no i mean the updates and such
[10:09:24] <ThomHolwerda> afterwards
[10:09:34] <ThomHolwerda> the updates from windows update
[10:10:18] <ddew|bofh> ah, the slipstreaming bit :)
[10:10:28] <ddew|bofh> haven't used nlite in ages
[10:12:10] <ddew|bofh> there are packs you can dl with all updates up to a certain point
[10:12:35] <ddew|bofh> the msfn forums should have links to them
[10:14:49] <ThomHolwerda> the driver bit is interesting too
[10:14:56] <ThomHolwerda> i just integrated the latest nvidia drivers
[10:15:00] <ThomHolwerda> now for my soundcard
[10:15:03] <ThomHolwerda> god this is handy
[10:15:24] <ddew|bofh> it's insanely great if you reinstall a lot
[10:16:07] <ThomHolwerda> which i dont do
[10:16:10] <ThomHolwerda> but still
[10:16:39] <ddew|bofh> neither do i, with xp i stick with the drivers on a usb-stick and on vista they do all the work for me
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[10:25:35] <ddew|bofh> heh, i hate going shopping the days before i get my check. it's slightly humiliating to buy a pack of smokes and some noodles and pay with fistfuls of quarters
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[10:30:38] <ThomHolwerda> isnt there some way to determine the serial key of your windows install without having to find the actual certificate of authenticity?
[10:30:54] <ThomHolwerda> my windows serial is on the bottom of the laptop i gave to my parents
[10:31:07] <ThomHolwerda> and i transferred its xp install to my desktop (the laptop now has vista)
[10:31:25] <ThomHolwerda> i can call my parents, but it would be easier if it's stored somewhere in windows itself
[10:31:30] <ddew|bofh> you can sniff out through software
[10:31:37] <ThomHolwerda> bah too complicated
[10:31:40] * ThomHolwerda gets phone
[10:31:43] <ddew|bofh> hehe
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[10:42:34] <psychodealiq> does anybody know when iso9660 fs will become useable on haiku?
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[10:59:20] <ddew|bofh> richard dawkins
[10:59:24] <ddew|bofh> oops
[11:00:03] <ddew|bofh> note to self: label keyboards accordingly :)
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[11:04:19] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: id love to see a picture of your appartment
[11:04:20] <Thom_Holwerda> lol
[11:05:35] <ddew|bofh> Thom_Holwerda: hehe, trust me you wouldn't :)
[11:06:42] <Thom_Holwerda> my apartment is shiny, clean, and straight. they dont call my place ORDNUNG MUSS SEIN for nothing.
[11:08:10] <ddew|bofh> my apartment is clean, orderly and all that
[11:08:37] <ddew|bofh> i just find all non-essential things irrelevant :)
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[11:09:02] <ddew|bofh> so no plants, pictures, curtain, carpet or anything like that
[11:16:28] <ThomHolwerda> no curtains?
[11:16:30] <ThomHolwerda> wtf.
[11:16:37] <ThomHolwerda> well, to each his own
[11:16:56] <ddew|bofh> efficiency ftw :)
[11:17:19] <ThomHolwerda> so no prancig around naked while singing spice girls songs?
[11:17:27] <ThomHolwerda> not that i do that, of course.
[11:17:30] <ddew|bofh> i have blinds :P
[11:17:33] <ThomHolwerda> at least not regularly.
[11:17:42] <ThomHolwerda> heh :P
[11:27:39] <ThomHolwerda> wow nlite really is a nice, well-thought out tool
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[11:31:39] <ddew|bofh> yeah, nlite is a really useful tool
[11:31:56] <ddew|bofh> perfect for slimming down install discs
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[11:33:18] <ThomHolwerda> went from 800+ mb to 600
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[11:38:16] <ddew|bofh> heh, i'm in a moral dilemma here. is an os really worth paying hundreds of euros to downgrade my workstation in order to legitimally run it?
[11:38:38] <ThomHolwerda> that's not a moral dilemma
[11:38:42] <ThomHolwerda> it's a financial dilemma
[11:38:47] <ThomHolwerda> they're closely related.
[11:39:14] <ddew|bofh> to me running software on an unsupported machine is a moral dilemma
[11:39:34] <ThomHolwerda> ah, our friends in cupertino
[11:41:04] <ddew|bofh> luckily eulas aren't legally enforcable here so the legality of it is a non-issue
[11:44:09] <Technix> aw man, Billy Joel really gets ya, right -here-...
[11:47:17] <Technix> hey guys, I got my first real piece of furniture today!
[11:47:33] <Technix> 6chair dining room table, its pretty nice, all real wood, heavy, etc.
[11:47:36] <ddew|bofh> heh, grats
[11:47:37] <JonathanThompson> A plastic blow-up doll couch?
[11:47:42] <Technix> sigh
[11:47:44] <Technix> :P
[11:47:58] <JonathanThompson> (Or was it a sheep --  wait, that's daat!
[11:47:59] <JonathanThompson> )
[11:48:33] <Technix> http://wayoutthere.net:7000  <-- a huge Billy Joel marathon, its been great.
[11:48:45] <Technix> hook in for a few songs, you'll thank me late.
[11:48:47] <Technix> later*
[11:49:50] <psychodealiq> Technix: who's Billy Joel?
[11:50:08] <Technix> what
[11:50:30] * JonathanThompson notes psychodealiq must be a young pup that's uneducated
[11:50:34] <Technix> what's your birthdate, psychodealiq? :)
[11:50:58] <psychodealiq> not so many...
[11:51:01] * JonathanThompson thinks immediately of "The Piano Man"
[11:51:11] <ddew|bofh> is being old a prerequisite for liking Billy Joel? :P
[11:51:14] <Technix> ddew|bofh: I recently upgraded apartments as of April 1st, hardwood floors, marble tile in the kichen/bath, and blinds on the windows
[11:51:36] <JonathanThompson> Must be a small kitchen, since it wasn't spelled with a t ;)
[11:51:39] <ddew|bofh> Technix: good for you :)
[11:51:51] * Technix smacks JonathanThompson with a large T
[11:51:59] <Technix> damn, my last one
[11:52:02] *** Technix is now known as echnix
[11:52:05] <echnix> damn you
[11:52:08] * JonathanThompson notes his last name starts with one, so he's been appropriately branded
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[11:52:58] * echnix converts an 'l' from loser (looking at you, jt) and some digital junk on the floor to fashion a new 'T'
[11:53:02] *** echnix is now known as Technix
[11:53:02] <Technix> there.
[11:53:17] * JonathanThompson laughs at the moral outrage he caused on a Yahoo Groups forum where he played "Devil in a blue dress's advocate" regarding the issue of teenagers sending sexually-explicit nude photos to each other via cell phone
[11:54:42] * ThomHolwerda hugs vlc
[11:55:18] <JonathanThompson> ThomHolwerda you need to get out more ;)
[11:59:01] <ddew|bofh> his previous spice girls comment also makes pretty convincing evidence of that ;)
[11:59:15] <JonathanThompson> I didn't see that one ;)
[11:59:52] <Technix> No wonder his articles are weird lately, he's consuming too much air in his apartment? :P :P :P
[12:00:30] <JonathanThompson> Are you saying he has warped ideas about what makes a "beautiful machine" ?
[12:00:35] <JonathanThompson> Say it ain't so!
[12:00:40] <ddew|bofh> i've never understood the concept of decoration
[12:00:48] <ddew|bofh> what's the point?
[12:00:53] <Technix> JonathanThompson: that's exactly what I am saying
[12:00:54] * JonathanThompson decorates ddew|bofh for plainness
[12:01:02] <Technix> ddew|bofh: honestly?
[12:01:09] <ddew|bofh> honestly
[12:01:18] <Technix> well, decoration is not just for looks, you know
[12:01:40] <Technix> it can also be for flow, ambience, defining a sense of space so that you can concentrate on tasks at hand
[12:01:48] <Technix> blank walls drive most people mad
[12:01:52] <JonathanThompson> It's like I've been saying for a few years: some women look best with one sort of clothing on, some women look best with another type of clothing on, and some women look best with no type of clothing on at all!
[12:01:56] <ddew|bofh> flow? ambience? you sound like a hippie :)
[12:02:10] <Technix> I am in touch with my inner decorator :P
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[12:02:23] <ddew|bofh> *pfft* :)
[12:02:27] <Technix> lmao
[12:03:44] * ddew|bofh considers himself the model of efficiency :P
[12:04:19] * JonathanThompson wonders if ddew|bofh is a low-key version of a very modern major general
[12:04:36] <ddew|bofh> quite possibly
[12:05:12] <ddew|bofh> that song is weird
[12:05:19] <JonathanThompson> Agreed.
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[12:05:59] <ari-free> Kate Moss is the supermodel of efficiency
[12:06:17] <JonathanThompson> Then there's the warped country-western style song that's very very long by Weird Al called "The Biggest Ball of Twine in Minnesota"
[12:06:20] <ddew|bofh> not really, she's quite inefficient
[12:06:28] <JonathanThompson> Too many curves?
[12:06:29] <ari-free> she can also be used to open any door
[12:07:15] * JonathanThompson is God's best puzzlement to women
[12:07:28] <ari-free> just stick her in the lock or slide her under the door
[12:07:42] * ddew|bofh is the sworn enemy of "God"
[12:08:05] <JonathanThompson> Now she just needs to date a Slim Jim, and they can have a good robbery career between them ;)
[12:08:12] <ddew|bofh> hehe
[12:08:13] <Technix> Piano Man is playing, jt
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[12:08:51] <ari-free> more meat in a slim jim
[12:09:37] * JonathanThompson chose "WinAmp" and had it work nicely with iTunes
[12:11:17] <JonathanThompson> ddew|bofh, if you want to see a woman pondering what she's just heard, if you hear her state she loves a particular handbag but worries about its longevity, offer to reinforce it internally so it lasts longer :)
[12:11:54] <ari-free> reinforce a handbag?
[12:12:01] <ddew|bofh> heh, social ineptness at it's best :)
[12:12:10] <JonathanThompson> Well, small bag/purse-like thing.
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[12:12:22] <Teknomancer> afternoon all
[12:12:26] <JonathanThompson> Morning.
[12:12:29] <Teknomancer> :)
[12:12:37] <ari-free> hi
[12:12:50] * Teknomancer goes to switch on the AC
[12:13:01] <Teknomancer> cannot sit here anymore without it :(
[12:13:06] * JonathanThompson confounds Teknomancer by turning on the DC instead
[12:13:25] <ddew|bofh> *pfft* tesla rules
[12:13:32] <ddew|bofh> (ruled)
[12:13:55] * ari-free confounds everyone by turning on ACDC and sticks fingers out like beavis and butthead
[12:14:10] <Teknomancer> back in blaack
[12:14:12] <JonathanThompson> Ever have anyone try to assign a name to you (mutation of your regular name) you didn't like them to use?
[12:14:17] <Technix> yes
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[12:14:41] <JonathanThompson> One that's bugged me since I was a little kid was anyone trying to call me "Jonny"
[12:15:04] <JonathanThompson> I've gotten into the habit of stating this to warn people:  "My grandpa used to call me Jonny, but he's dead now!"
[12:15:05] <ari-free> as in: heeeeeeeeeere's Jonny!
[12:15:27] <leszek> hi
[12:15:42] <Technix> hi leszek
[12:15:49] <Technix> JonathanThompson: that's a real shame
[12:15:50] <ari-free> hi
[12:15:53] * JonathanThompson feeds leszek a couple Unicode letters in greeting
[12:16:07] <ddew|bofh> betas the nick-name i have, doddo :)
[12:16:09] <JonathanThompson> Yeah, if I'd known him better at the time, he would have been dead much sooner!
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[12:16:42] <Technix> I was known as Toby in high school
[12:17:13] <ddew|bofh> my nickname died off when i changed my name luckily
[12:17:30] <ari-free> to d'dew?
[12:17:40] <Teknomancer> everyone calls me "Ram" but I cannot use it on IRC.. way too much RAM related topics to BUZZ me to death :P
[12:17:41] <JonathanThompson> Dew Dropped In?
[12:17:42] <Technix> first week in HS, made friends with some roleplayers who were also headbangers (yeah, it was kinda cool), and they nicknamed me Toby because I basically fetched their food.
[12:17:46] <Technix> and it stuck
[12:18:01] <ddew|bofh> i used to be called dan which mutated into doddo, but when i was 5 i changed my name to david
[12:18:05] <slaad> Food? Toby? I don'
[12:18:08] <slaad> t get it?
[12:18:18] <Technix> it's alright, I'd rather not explain. :)
[12:18:24] <slaad> No, no, I insist :P
[12:18:29] * JonathanThompson thinks the current song fits a particular cat he's had in the past
[12:18:31] <ari-free> you can just change your name like that?
[12:18:34] <Technix> no, no, I don't want to say. :)
[12:18:42] <ddew|bofh> ari-free: appearantly :)
[12:19:00] <Technix> your cat is always a woman to you, JonathanThompson ?
[12:19:06] <ari-free> now be careful because in israel, David turns into Dudu
[12:19:13] <JonathanThompson> This cat was messed up :)
[12:19:16] <Technix> omg
[12:19:20] <Technix> apparently
[12:19:28] <Technix> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, and she never gives out
[12:19:33] <Technix> and she never gives innnnnnnnnn
[12:19:36] <Technix> she just changes her mind.
[12:19:57] * JonathanThompson hasn't completely listened with a dirty mind to all the lyrics...
[12:20:22] <ddew|bofh> ari-free: yet another reason to never travel to israel then ;)
[12:20:33] <Technix> don't worry, JonathanThompson, there are still some countries that don't label that animal abuse.
[12:20:48] <JonathanThompson> Other than the minefields people have been known to somehow wander into the middle of without being aware of?
[12:21:08] <JonathanThompson> Then you're safe, Technix, as long as you keep within those countries ;)
[12:21:13] <Technix> touche
[12:21:52] <ari-free> I hate when people pronouce my name as if i was the little mermaid
[12:22:05] <ari-free> i hate that
[12:22:06] <Technix> uh...
[12:22:07] * JonathanThompson now starts singing the song
[12:22:17] <JonathanThompson> Thanks for getting that into my head, ari-free!
[12:22:18] * Technix chimes in with the chorus
[12:22:24] <Technix> most excellent
[12:22:35] <ari-free> under the C++
[12:22:51] <ari-free> take it from me
[12:22:56] * JonathanThompson watches Technix Flounder to come up with a rejoinder
[12:23:13] <Technix> pff
[12:23:27] <Technix> hey man, I'm at work, and working hard, so quiet
[12:23:39] <Technix> its not like... uh, I have hours of free time.. yeah.
[12:23:45] <JonathanThompson> That's when someone must be the most worried, when someone is quiet ;)
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[12:24:02] * JonathanThompson is very quiet
[12:24:09] <Technix> yessss.. always the quiet onessssss
[12:24:23] <ddew|bofh> hehe
[12:24:28] <JonathanThompson> I urge you, don't look into my freezer ;)
[12:24:40] <ddew|bofh> i believe we have a proper weird off on our hands here :)
[12:24:50] <JonathanThompson> (You'll find chopped and ground meat in there)
[12:25:02] <JonathanThompson> Not to mention frozen corn.
[12:25:14] <ari-free> that is so unusual?
[12:25:15] <JonathanThompson> (Not frozen Children of the Corn, though: that's out of stock)
[12:25:32] <Technix> I thought you were a vegetarian?
[12:25:45] <JonathanThompson> Teknomancer is, I'm definitely not.
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[12:26:31] <Teknomancer> yep been a vegetarian for 24 years
[12:27:00] * JonathanThompson has been an inhumantarian for at least that long
[12:27:36] <JonathanThompson> I have the inalienable right to be inhuman!
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[12:28:10] <Technix> um
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[12:28:23] <ari-free> i thought you eat the undead
[12:28:25] <Technix> You have the rights to be as alien as humanly possible.
[12:28:26] <ThomHolwerda> dutch common law invalidates all EULAs that have been "agreed" upon POST sale
[12:28:29] <ThomHolwerda> interesting
[12:29:00] <JonathanThompson> Which means I can be very alien, Technix ;)
[12:29:05] <ThomHolwerda> the common law speaks only of sale, and thus property laws, unless specific agreements have been reached PRIOR to sale
[12:29:11] <ThomHolwerda> since that doesnt happen with EULAs
[12:29:19] <ThomHolwerda> you OWN your copy of the software
[12:29:20] <JonathanThompson> At least not with most.
[12:29:23] <ThomHolwerda> property rights
[12:29:31] <ThomHolwerda> never knew it was that clear
[12:29:33] <ddew|bofh> ThomHolwerda: yeah, we have that law here too
[12:30:08] * JonathanThompson has always loved the circular logic of "Do not use this software if you do not agree with the EULA inside"
[12:30:21] <ThomHolwerda> this of course is unrelated to selling copies of software, as that breaks copyright law
[12:30:29] <ThomHolwerda> god someone should take apple's EULA to court
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[12:30:52] <ThomHolwerda> i have found so many attack vectors just by browsing through common law
[12:30:57] <ari-free> yeah the law should be that the eula should come before you buy
[12:30:58] <ThomHolwerda> and im a layman damnit
[12:31:11] <Technix> hey, this song is for you, JonathanThompson
[12:31:22] * JonathanThompson wonders how much ThomHolwerda uses that excuse on the women
[12:31:32] <Technix> that he's a layman?
[12:31:34] <Technix> hehe
[12:31:47] <ThomHolwerda> heh
[12:32:29] * JonathanThompson rocks a bit back and forth, forth and back, enough to wear out a wimpy sack, and type some rhyme, and stretch a cat, and find something old and stained to wear as a hat
[12:32:53] * Technix gently takes the meds away without JonathanThompson noticing
[12:33:11] <ThomHolwerda> 1) clicking a button may not mean "agree" as signing your autograph would
[12:33:17] * JonathanThompson jumps on Technix wearing spikes
[12:33:24] <ari-free> is that the extremely disturbed version of Dr seuss?
[12:33:25] <ThomHolwerda> 2) it violates property rights
[12:33:34] <ThomHolwerda> 3) the prior-to-sale issue
[12:33:44] <JonathanThompson> You ain't seen nothin' yet, ari-free :D
[12:33:55] *** plfiorini has quit IRC
[12:34:22] <JonathanThompson> Yesterday morning, the dream I woke up from had me killing an intruder with my bare hands.... I guess I'm slightly stressed.
[12:35:01] <Technix> don't tell me we have another Vincent on our hands
[12:35:02] <ari-free> dreams are cool
[12:35:04] <JonathanThompson> The really funny part of that, is that after I'd dispatched him, a beacon started sounding, and there were visible circular waves coming from it.
[12:35:06] <Technix> ddew|bofh: remember him?
[12:35:38] <ddew|bofh> remember who?
[12:35:39] <JonathanThompson> Vincent?
[12:35:41] <Technix> Vincent
[12:35:58] <ddew|bofh> who the hell's vincent?
[12:36:05] <ari-free> My name is Vincent and i want to suck your blood
[12:36:10] <JonathanThompson> Fortunately, dreaming of killing people isn't a daily occurrence.
[12:36:14] <Technix> oh, you might recognize his nick... ElPresidento
[12:36:29] <Technix> umm... there were a few other ones, he was SO annoying on BeShare back in the day
[12:36:30] <JonathanThompson> (Not for me, anyway: can't speak for ddew|bofh)
[12:36:39] <ddew|bofh> don't remember him, sounds like a fetching dude though :P
[12:36:44] <Technix> lol
[12:36:54] <Technix> you'd remember if I could just recall the main nick he used
[12:37:28] <ddew|bofh> you'd be amazed over how insanely crap my memory really is :)
[12:37:45] * JonathanThompson wonders where his most-readily-accessed copy of "RAID-in-a-Box" is at
[12:37:48] <Teknomancer> still using SDRAM ?
[12:38:08] <JonathanThompson> Nah, he's using static RAM, and it's had a few jolts too many ;)
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[12:38:49] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i've walked past a few too many electromagnets in my days :)
[12:39:09] <JonathanThompson> He's been tuned into many different things, sometimes even a vampire!
[12:39:16] <JonathanThompson> (Surely, that sucks)
[12:39:27] <ddew|bofh> ba-da-dich!
[12:39:28] <ari-free> man I hate static electricity. I have to ground myself every time I want to turn off the lights
[12:39:50] <JonathanThompson> How do you ever get outside into the real world to do anything, ari-free?
[12:40:12] <Technix> That's that big room with the bright light.
[12:40:16] <ari-free> through a portal that exits the 12th dimension
[12:40:17] <Technix> in case you forgot
[12:40:38] <ddew|bofh> heh
[12:41:02] <ddew|bofh> i remember that, from way back
[12:41:19] <Technix> kekeke
[12:41:20] <Technix> http://www.theonion.com/content/video/wildly_popular_iron_man_trailer
[12:41:24] <ari-free> I like that room. the one where i get to choose between 2 colors of candy
[12:42:02] <Technix> omg, genius
[12:42:07] * Technix loves The Onion
[12:42:33] <Technix> alienating the trailer core fanbase.. LOL
[12:43:39] <Technix> oh my god that is SO well done
[12:45:17] <ddew|bofh> haha, kenny vs spenny is like the second weirdest show ever
[12:45:25] <Technix> indeed
[12:45:41] <ari-free> oh gosh
[12:45:42] <Technix> did you see the one where they have a sleep-standing-up contest?
[12:45:58] <JonathanThompson> Did you guys read the stuff going along the bottom of the screen?
[12:46:08] <Technix> oh wow, totally missed it
[12:46:11] <JonathanThompson> I'm not sure which part of the video was funnier and more twisted ;)
[12:47:26] <Technix> oh nice.. canadian dollar store
[12:48:16] <Technix> wow, The Onion is genius
[12:49:49] <JonathanThompson> What's funniest perhaps is that the last sound byte I could actually see happening.
[12:50:05] <JonathanThompson> "In Seattle today, a man bruised 23 people in a punching spree"
[12:50:34] <JonathanThompson> (Some weird things happen in Seattle, no question)
[12:51:02] <ddew|bofh> heh, that's fucking brilliant :)
[12:51:05] <JonathanThompson> I still pity the poor bear they chased down on the University of Washington dorms grounds.
[12:51:14] <geist> haha, that trailer thing is awesome
[12:51:38] <Technix> yeah
[12:51:39] <JonathanThompson> The tranquilizer dart didn't seem to faze it, so they tasered it, and it died.
[12:52:36] <geist> especially since i was completely overwhelmed with the iron man stuff for 9 months
[12:52:43] <geist> it was the game I was working on at $gameco
[12:52:48] <JonathanThompson> lol
[12:52:58] <Technix> cool
[12:53:06] <geist> yeah, should be fun
[12:53:13] <JonathanThompson> (But was it, after 9 months of working on it?)
[12:53:14] <Technix> did they complete the game, what happened?
[12:53:23] <geist> sure, it'll ship in a week
[12:54:21] <Technix> what part of it did you get to work on?
[12:54:31] <geist> engine
[12:54:34] <geist> ps3 specifically
[12:56:32] <Technix> This is why I so love our community. We have people from all walks of life
[12:56:47] * JonathanThompson attaches a leash and walks Technix
[12:57:03] <Technix> thanks, I gotta pee anyhow
[12:57:06] <Technix> brb
[12:57:21] <ddew|bofh> Technix: btw, gotten any reports from the LUG radio event?
[12:57:44] <ari-free> koki talked about it
[12:58:49] <ari-free> he didn't say so much except that there was a talk about google android that was inspired by beOS and mentioned the haiku booth
[12:59:16] <geist> right, android is primarily ex-be folks
[12:59:21] <geist> or at least a good portion
[12:59:34] <ddew|bofh> i'd love to have an andriod device
[12:59:49] <ddew|bofh> or even better, the ability to run android on my n95
[12:59:54] <ari-free> I wasn't exactly sure what is "BeOS" like about android
[13:00:09] <geist> android uses the latest version of the binder
[13:00:21] <geist> which derives directly from beos
[13:00:50] <ari-free> the binder...I remember that from palmsource
[13:00:55] <geist> the same
[13:00:57] <Technix> oddly no, ddew|bofh
[13:01:12] <JonathanThompson> He wasn't in the bathroom, waiting to help you, Technix?
[13:01:32] * JonathanThompson should be asleep before he makes more odd interpretations
[13:01:43] <Technix> oh god
[13:01:52] <JonathanThompson> Misplaced commas can cause odd things to be read...
[13:02:01] <Technix> indeed
[13:02:02] <ari-free> http://www.osnews.com/story/13674/Introduction_to_OpenBinder_and_Interview_with_Dianne_Hackborn
[13:02:07] <JonathanThompson> Dyslexia can cause fun issues ;)
[13:02:16] <geist> i can't help thinking about some lego like stuff called technix I had as a kid
[13:02:16] <JonathanThompson> (As can speech processing issues)
[13:02:19] <geist> i think something like that
[13:02:38] <geist> may be thinking of k'nix or whatever that dumb stuff was
[13:02:39] <geist> or capsella
[13:02:53] <JonathanThompson> Many years ago, a private joke between me and someone at church came about as a result of that, "Microsoft Chicken"
[13:02:57] <ddew|bofh> lego had a series called technix iirc
[13:03:35] <Teknomancer> yeah i think so
[13:03:48] <Teknomancer> which reminds me, i must try to find out where all my lego went
[13:04:15] <JonathanThompson> Probably around the block a few times ;)
[13:09:08] *** meisje has quit IRC
[13:11:51] <ari-free> JT do you know anything about openbinder?
[13:12:00] <JonathanThompson> I've not investigated it.
[13:12:34] <ari-free> supposed to be like COM but c++
[13:13:04] <JonathanThompson> COM can be done entirely in C++, and indeed, it was setup so C++ can be used in a pure form.
[13:13:26] <JonathanThompson> But, then it was restricted to make it feasible for non-C++ languages to use it, too.
[13:14:00] <geist> yeah, it was originally used in beia to let javascript interact with the system
[13:14:11] <Teknomancer> decomtamification!
[13:14:24] <geist> cobalt built the entire microkernel around it
[13:15:24] <Technix> what, for their RaQ's?
[13:15:43] <ari-free> cobalt didn't get far unfortunately
[13:15:56] <geist> no one bought it
[13:16:28] <ari-free> it was the last stand for what was left of be. pretty sad
[13:16:32] <geist> then when access got em they ported binder to linux, and open sourced it
[13:16:38] <geist> android pulled it in
[13:16:43] <geist> clever those ex-be guys
[13:17:11] <ThomHolwerda> haha i completely forgot about this one:
[13:17:12] <ThomHolwerda> http://www.skyos.org/board/viewtopic.php?p=86006#86006
[13:20:17] <Technix> I really wonder what we are going to do once we get rid of the web browser
[13:20:32] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku
[13:20:41] <Technix> hey AlienSoldier!
[13:20:48] <JonathanThompson> Someone will invariably create a mind browser.
[13:21:07] <AlienSoldier> hi Technix, and all the others
[13:21:21] <JonathanThompson> And then we'll all learn how many 404 errors the general population has, and see that the WWW has had a rather amazingly good record for recording memories that do exist ;)
[13:21:43] * geist 's head asplode
[13:22:31] <Technix> I'm thinking we are headed for more personalized systems, instead of a huge monolithic beast
[13:22:50] * JonathanThompson starts work immediately on the Technix OS
[13:23:44] <Technix> imagine this... I walk up to a kiosk somewhere (cause there's millions of open kiosks, awaiting your input) and my clothing uploads my personal OS, with which I can access Internet3 and do whatever I wish
[13:23:59] <Technix> as soon as I walk away, the kiosk resets itself
[13:24:10] * JonathanThompson imagines if Technix is having a particularly bad day with breathing that he has a BFOD
[13:24:29] <Technix> the moment I step back, my OS that is primed and ready in my compuclothes re-asserts itself
[13:24:33] <Technix> instantly
[13:24:39] <ari-free> isn't that like carrying a usb key with an OS on it and going to the library?
[13:24:46] <Technix> exactly, but 100x faster
[13:24:51] <Technix> and wireless
[13:24:56] * JonathanThompson imagines Technix pausing while getting dressed for his clothing to go through POST
[13:25:03] <JonathanThompson> But, not seamless!
[13:25:07] <Technix> sigh
[13:25:08] <AlienSoldier> that was called a NC by Sun
[13:25:17] <Technix> not really
[13:25:32] <Technix> the OS itself is what I carry around, its ready but not usable until I insert it into a computer
[13:25:43] <ari-free> what if you want to wear normal clothes? I'm sure compuclothes will look very geeky
[13:25:53] <Technix> embedded
[13:26:09] * JonathanThompson suspects cyberhookers have an embedded OS
[13:26:13] <AlienSoldier> and what about nudist beach? anal implent? :P
[13:26:24] <Technix> and no, I don't imagine it will look any geekier than velcro would to a person 100 years ago
[13:26:44] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku
[13:26:46] * JonathanThompson notes Velcro didn't exist > 50 years ago
[13:26:49] <Technix> but ok, it could be my 10th generation iPhone
[13:26:56] <ari-free> ummm velcro isn't geeky. just dorky
[13:26:57] <Technix> my point exactly, JonathanThompson
[13:27:05] <Technix> its very geeky, ask ddew|bofh
[13:27:08] <AlienSoldier> the problem with this is that it would require Playstation era type of standardisation
[13:27:14] <Technix> how many thousands of uses does NASA have for it?
[13:27:20] <Technix> AlienSoldier: right
[13:27:24] <Technix> nothing wrong with that
[13:27:27] <JonathanThompson> Are you saying ddew|bofh is the judge of all that's geeky, perhaps by experience?
[13:27:49] <Technix> I'm just saying, that we're moving into more personalized systems, which will preclude a level of standardization unheard of today
[13:27:52] <ari-free> velcro is for kids who are too lazy too tie their shoes
[13:28:02] <Technix> um... no
[13:28:03] <Technix> ?
[13:28:21] <Technix> velcro is one of the most important inventions to come along in over 200 years, easily
[13:28:34] <JonathanThompson> It's also very effective at fuzzing up seat belts when they rub against jackets with velcro fasteners ;)
[13:28:40] <ari-free> yes but not in a fashion sense
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[13:28:47] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[13:28:48] <Technix> just understanding how velcro works has introduced new concepts in science
[13:28:53] *** wildur has joined #Haiku
[13:29:07] <JonathanThompson> But let's not get science and fashion and such all mixed up, Technix!
[13:29:12] <ari-free> not sure what velcro has to do with wearable OS's
[13:29:21] <JonathanThompson> You know better than to try to throw common sense out the window with science ;)
[13:29:37] <AlienSoldier> my shoe lace say that velcro is the most anoying  invention of nature :)
[13:29:46] <Technix> It was an analogy comparing how people 50 years ago thought it was amazing, how we will consider things in the future just as so today
[13:29:57] *** mmu_man has quit IRC
[13:29:59] * JonathanThompson predicts the next fabric revolution will be Gecko-zippers that use the same stuff/tech as geckos use to stick to walls
[13:30:00] <Technix> err.. tense is all mixed up but whatever
[13:31:12] <ari-free> ok but the tie with an OS in it will probably be as ugly as a fossil watch
[13:31:13] <Technix> I guess as our level of expectations change, our perspective changes, etc etc
[13:31:22] <Technix> you are very pessimistic
[13:31:36] <JonathanThompson> Everyone needs a hobby, and that's his ;)
[13:31:39] <Technix> hehe
[13:32:39] <ari-free> no, i just never heard of something with technology and still looked like something you could wear without being embarrassed in public :)
[13:32:50] <Technix> yeah, watches must be really hard for you
[13:33:14] <ari-free> watches prove my point
[13:33:18] <Technix> um, how?
[13:33:33] <ari-free> think of a nice watch. movado. tag heur
[13:33:38] <JonathanThompson> Are you talking about all watches in general?
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[13:34:08] <Technix> I guess he's using his argument that fashion != geek, and twisting it to create a more convincing argument
[13:34:37] <ddew|bofh> bullcrap
[13:34:38] <JonathanThompson> Nothing more fun to argue with than serpentine logic that bytes you in the tail ;)
[13:35:00] <ddew|bofh> and for the record: velcro is the shiznit
[13:35:03] <ari-free> it's more of an observation than anything
[13:35:20] <Technix> ddew|bofh: you're talking to ari-free I hope?
[13:35:29] <ddew|bofh> naturally
[13:35:30] <JonathanThompson> It's more of an opinion than anything: there, ftfy
[13:35:48] * JonathanThompson wonders if ari-free is a recently-converted Amish IRC user
[13:35:51] <Technix> see, I knew ddew|bofh would agree
[13:35:51] <ari-free> nothing wrong with that either
[13:35:57] <Technix> JonathanThompson: nice!
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[13:36:08] <ddew|bofh> what's geek today is common-place tomorrow
[13:36:10] <Technix> so, you were saying, ari-free? about watches?
[13:36:31] * JonathanThompson puts a smile on the face of a watch and watches the face with a smile
[13:37:06] <ari-free> nothing Amish about a movado watch :)
[13:37:25] <Technix> well, as ddew|bofh pointed out, today's geek is tomorrows normal
[13:37:51] <Teknomancer> casio digitals ftw
[13:37:56] <ari-free> tech and style usually don't mix
[13:38:03] <Technix> and to get back to my original point, I think we'll be using very personalized systems that interact with a more general and standardized set of protocals in a world network.
[13:38:08] <JonathanThompson> I predict that in 10 years, a large portion of the population will do as I do: wear the watch portion of their HRM as their regular watch so they can have it watch them as they wear it.
[13:38:09] <ddew|bofh> are you on crack or just stupid?
[13:38:26] <Technix> ari-free: you can certainly mix tech with style. Ask Apple.
[13:38:27] <ari-free> if you have a system that expects tech in everything you wear...I don't see how that would appeal to many people
[13:38:27] <Technix> ask Lotus
[13:38:28] <ddew|bofh> look at the iphone for example, both stylish and insanely tech
[13:38:32] <Technix> (for a car)
[13:38:35] <Technix> ask BMW
[13:38:45] <DocPheniX> ask us honda geeks
[13:38:47] <DocPheniX> :P
[13:38:50] <Technix> that
[13:38:57] <Technix> ari-free: and therein lies the rub
[13:39:00] <JonathanThompson> My older Saturn goes through a POST upon starting.
[13:39:03] <ddew|bofh> ricers don't count :P
[13:39:04] <ari-free> Apple is probably the only tech company that is stylish
[13:39:13] <Technix> it is not MY challenge to come up with a convincing argument to show that Tech will integrate with Fashion.
[13:39:14] <JonathanThompson> (My car's not a ricer :P )
[13:39:24] <DocPheniX> my ricer isnt a ricer
[13:39:27] <DocPheniX> its low key
[13:39:31] <Teknomancer> our new car's a Fiat
[13:39:35] <DocPheniX> but its got umph
[13:39:37] <ddew|bofh> tech _is_ integrated in fashion, it's not something that might happen
[13:39:42] <JonathanThompson> It's not the most powerful of engines for acceleration as matched with the car, but it's a good engineering compromise :)
[13:39:51] <Monni> Fiat = sardine can
[13:39:56] <DocPheniX> my ecu is hacked LOTS
[13:39:58] <ddew|bofh> Porsche ftw
[13:39:59] <DocPheniX> etc
[13:40:00] <DocPheniX> :P
[13:40:22] * JonathanThompson wonders if there are any Mennonite chat rooms
[13:40:26] <Technix> naw, the Dutch Spyder rocks
[13:40:38] <Technix> Spyker, evn
[13:40:40] <Technix> even*
[13:40:53] <ddew|bofh> is that the three-wheeled thing=
[13:40:56] <ddew|bofh> ?
[13:41:31] <ddew|bofh> or am i thinking of something entirely different? :)
[13:41:34] <Technix> http://www.forbesautos.com/reviews/2006/spyker/c8/testdrive.html
[13:41:39] <Technix> you're thinking of something else
[13:41:50] <Technix> I know what you mean by the 3wheeler though, that is also dutch
[13:41:53] <Technix> and it is neat
[13:41:58] <Technix> but this is their new supercar
[13:42:00] <Technix> and its HAWT
[13:42:01] <Teknomancer> hi Monni
[13:42:07] <Monni> hi Teknomancer
[13:42:13] <ari-free> http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/news/article/scottevest-milan-leather-jacket-review-11300454/
[13:42:23] <Technix> most people outside of EU have never heard of it
[13:42:59] <ddew|bofh> well i'm a EU sportscar nut yet somehow it slipped under my radar :)
[13:43:06] <ddew|bofh> must be a very small company
[13:43:13] <Technix> it is
[13:43:22] <ddew|bofh> their designs look very british
[13:43:25] <Technix> it was introduced a few years ago, it was on Top Gear too
[13:43:38] <Technix> yeah, almost inspired by the roadsters
[13:44:07] <Technix> there's something to be said for efficient design when almost all supercar companies can agree on common things
[13:44:13] <Monni> German sports magazines are full of jokes about British car design skills ;)
[13:44:14] <ddew|bofh> like a cross between ewarly lotus and early jaguar
[13:44:20] <Technix> you got it
[13:44:36] <Technix> you should try to find the Top Gear episode that shows it in action
[13:44:38] <Technix> omg drool
[13:44:48] <ari-free> jaguar...yum
[13:44:49] <ddew|bofh> remember which season?
[13:44:54] <Technix> umm. 8 I think?
[13:45:04] <Technix> lemme find out
[13:45:17] <DeadYak> the last sports car I saw that I remember really liking was the Bugatti Veyron ... not sure if that thing actually exists on the road or not though
[13:45:25] <Technix> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TXDW0B_gVk
[13:45:28] <ddew|bofh> it exists
[13:45:37] <Technix> it exists
[13:45:40] <Technix> its amazing
[13:45:43] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: ah, I saw it demo'ed as a concept car, I wasn't sure if they actually sold any units of it
[13:45:57] <DeadYak> that thing was amazing though from what I saw
[13:46:03] <Technix> check that link, ddew|bofh
[13:46:06] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: it's like the old saying "if you build it, they will come" :)
[13:46:41] <ddew|bofh> Technix: don't have any flash capable boxen running atm. did you find out which season it was?
[13:46:47] <Technix> gr.. sec
[13:46:53] * JonathanThompson wonders if that's what blow-up doll makers work towards
[13:46:54] <DeadYak> bbl
[13:48:50] * JonathanThompson idly wonders if inmates in a minimal security prison like to yank the chain link fences of their guards
[13:49:43] <Technix> going through episodes as we speak, ddew|bofh
[13:49:52] <ddew|bofh> thanks
[13:50:05] <Technix> I have it all here on the network
[13:50:06] <JonathanThompson> And then there's the warden, who hopefully maintains employee morale and doesn't let his guards down ;)
[13:50:07] <Technix> so, np
[13:50:25] <ddew|bofh> i have them on my 100mbit network called "the internet" :P
[13:50:45] <Technix> I see your 100mbit network, and raise you 3 gigi
[13:50:56] <JonathanThompson> How fast is a Gigi?
[13:51:09] <ari-free> battlestar gallactica is such a funny show. everyone who has internet dies
[13:51:30] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i'd love gigabit. but for 35 bucks 100 is fine enough :)
[13:51:42] <ddew|bofh> *nice enough
[13:52:04] <ari-free> what kind of scifi show has people hanging around with old radios and dot matrix printers
[13:52:05] * JonathanThompson notes that the US suffers a lot from its sheer size when it comes to such things, besides other factors
[13:52:55] <ThomHolwerda> im thinking of contacting a lawyer on the apple eula issue
[13:52:56] <JonathanThompson> High population density does have some advantages...
[13:53:12] <JonathanThompson> I'm sure Apple is already doing just that ;)
[13:53:17] <ddew|bofh> JonathanThompson: another factor is that while your government goes to war ours invest in country-wide fibertoptics
[13:53:33] <ddew|bofh> *fiberoptics
[13:53:38] <JonathanThompson> Who would want to bother fighting over your country anyway? ;)
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[13:53:45] <ThomHolwerda> and ours invest in.... uhm.... err... uh.
[13:53:54] <JonathanThompson> Dikes!
[13:53:59] <ari-free> fiber optic should be coming here soon
[13:54:03] <ThomHolwerda> JonathanThompson: actually, we dont :/
[13:54:06] <ThomHolwerda> thats a problem :s
[13:54:07] <ari-free> we want to get away from cable
[13:54:22] <JonathanThompson> Sort of like the mess for New Orleans ;)
[13:54:37] <JonathanThompson> Though honestly, New Orleans doesn't logically deserve being rebuilt.
[13:54:51] <JonathanThompson> It isn't practically sustainable, and can't be made truly safe.
[13:55:04] <Technix> aha
[13:55:10] <Technix> ddew|bofh: season 4, episode 7
[13:55:17] <ari-free> thats what happens when you build a city in a bowl
[13:55:18] <ddew|bofh> Technix: cheers
[13:55:22] <Technix> heh
[13:55:29] <ddew|bofh> Technix: the first or second series?
[13:55:35] <JonathanThompson> It doesn't make sense to try to keep up a land area with residents that has water on 3 sides at a higher level than the ground, especially in a hurricane-prone area.
[13:55:45] <Monni> New Orleans is better as one hell of a fish pond...
[13:55:54] <Technix> 2002 series
[13:56:01] <ddew|bofh> thanks
[13:56:03] <Technix> this particular episode aired 2004
[13:56:15] <Technix> henceforth known as modern Top Gear
[13:56:19] <ari-free> it doesn't help that it has the most corrupt system in the world
[13:56:20] <Technix> not pre-Top Gear
[13:56:41] <JonathanThompson> Would pre-Top Gear be Bottom Gear?
[13:56:54] <ddew|bofh> Technix: you're american aren't you? ;)
[13:56:57] <Monni> Limbo Gear ;)
[13:57:04] <ThomHolwerda> Monni: lol limburg
[13:57:07] * JonathanThompson intones, "How low can you go!"
[13:57:08] <Technix> Canadian
[13:57:14] <ddew|bofh> close enough :P
[13:57:16] <JonathanThompson> Eh?
[13:57:18] <Technix> eh?
[13:57:23] <JonathanThompson> He's american, he just doesn't realize it yet ;)
[13:57:30] <JonathanThompson> Canada, AKA "North Montana"
[13:57:48] <JonathanThompson> After all, no computer animation movie like "Meet the Robinsons" would ever mislead you ;)
[13:57:49] <Technix> at 48:05 into the episode, you'll find the piece, ddew|bofh
[13:58:07] <Monni> famous from dumb police men who still know horse riding better than car driving...
[13:58:26] <JonathanThompson> To me, that was one of the funniest bits about the movie, because they put onto film the thought I've had for several years and stated ;)
[13:58:57] <JonathanThompson> Monni, if you have as much snow as a lot of Canada, chances are the horse is more reliable with better chances of not getting stuck ;)
[13:59:56] <ari-free> i would like to see the ice hotel. i only visited Quebec in the summer
[14:00:05] <Monni> JonathanThompson: Well.. Anything that doesn't exhaust biological waste is better IMHO...
[14:00:23] <JonathanThompson> Depends on what it does exhaust...
[14:00:42] <Monni> CO and NOX ;)
[14:00:44] <JonathanThompson> At least the south-end exhaust of a north-bound horse can be used as fertilizer...
[14:01:02] <JonathanThompson> The same can't be said of any car exhaust I've witnessed ;)
[14:01:19] * JonathanThompson imagines a horse going in for emissions testing
[14:01:34] <Monni> you can drink exhaust from hydrogen car ;)
[14:01:43] * ddew|bofh really doesn't wanna attach the exhaust pipe
[14:01:46] <JonathanThompson> How many hydrogen cars are in actual use? :)
[14:01:49] <ari-free> I'm not sure i would want to do that
[14:02:21] <Monni> I thought we were talking about future options, not present time...
[14:02:34] <JonathanThompson> You're the one assuming the future ;)
[14:02:57] <Technix> I get to see my future wife in 2 weeks!
[14:03:01] <Monni> assume makes ass out of you and me...
[14:03:03] <ari-free> Horses. The car of the future
[14:03:25] <ari-free> wow thats great technix!
[14:03:28] <Monni> Shetlanders.... nice for sardine parking...
[14:03:40] <Technix> yeah, very excited
[14:03:54] * JonathanThompson doesn't remember typing anything about future cars with regards to exhaust or reliability
[14:04:14] <JonathanThompson> What will she do when she finds out you were neutered online in the last week, Technix? ;)
[14:04:25] <Technix> she's in PEI still, but we're moving her and the two kids next summer after they're done school, and we've saved some money up for our new place
[14:04:35] <Monni> I'm still keen to see any of my cars blue screen on autobahn...
[14:04:42] <Technix> its one step at a time, unfortunately...
[14:04:44] <JonathanThompson> Well, you're gaining two kids, so it doesn't matter much, eh?
[14:04:59] <Technix> yup, two little boys, 4, 5
[14:05:32] <ari-free> thats great
[14:05:33] <JonathanThompson> Just add marriage, POOF! instant family...
[14:05:39] <Technix> I'm driving across Canada, and coming back with a family.
[14:05:40] <Technix> basically
[14:06:09] <Technix> she's my ex from when I used to live there, and well, we've gotten back together, and back in love again.. sigh
[14:06:38] <ari-free> :)
[14:06:39] <JonathanThompson> If you end up not being very talkative with each other, perhaps the time will be filled with a pregnant pause ;)
[14:07:05] <Technix> but, I like to talk while .. uh... making the bed
[14:07:28] *** DeadYak has quit IRC
[14:07:35] <JonathanThompson> We're ready to believe you ;)
[14:11:20] <stpere> morning
[14:11:48] <Technix> way to kill the mood, stpere
[14:11:50] <Technix> sheesh
[14:11:59] <stpere> :)
[14:12:18] <Monni> it's morning somewhere in the globe all the time...
[14:12:26] <ddew|bofh> i'm about to pass out from sheer exhaustion :)
[14:12:52] <Technix> GO TO BED
[14:13:02] <JonathanThompson> Wearing too many pairs of panty hose at once, ddew|bofh? :D
[14:13:12] <CIA-34> mmlr * r24965 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/busses/usb/ (ehci.cpp ehci_hardware.h):
[14:13:12] <CIA-34> Exclude the frame list rollover interrupt from the interrupts we are interested
[14:13:12] <CIA-34> in. We do not enable this interrupt and if we still "handle" it in our
[14:13:12] <CIA-34> interrupt handler we might prevent the interrupt from reaching the real intended
[14:13:12] <CIA-34> handler in a shared interrupt setup. Not sure if this could have happend at
[14:13:13] <Technix> omg
[14:13:15] <CIA-34> all, but this is more correct in any case.
[14:13:45] * ddew|bofh prefers not sleeping :)
[14:13:52] <JonathanThompson> Now you can see what sort of things my mind thinks through during times it should normally be dreaming :D
[14:14:20] <stpere> me->lol() ;-)
[14:14:29] <Monni> me->eat()
[14:14:51] <Teknomancer> me->docwriting();
[14:14:52] * JonathanThompson notes that regardless of his sexual orientation, clearly stpere has an object orientation
[14:14:57] <Teknomancer> you guys all missed your semi-colons!!
[14:15:01] <stpere> I just got some yugurt with fruits and a muffin
[14:15:06] <stpere> and 3 cups of coffee :)
[14:15:12] <Teknomancer> i love yogurt
[14:15:15] <stpere> to ruin the healthy stuff
[14:15:32] <Monni> semi-colons are forbidden in safe mode syntax ;)
[14:15:39] <ari-free> I like kefir
[14:15:44] <ddew|bofh> heh, for the next 3 days i'm on a strict noodles and cigarettes diet :)
[14:15:45] <JonathanThompson> We all know you're anything but safe, Monni ;)
[14:16:00] <Monni> shhh...
[14:16:01] <JonathanThompson> Stringy smoky things for ddew|bofh!
[14:16:10] <Teknomancer> the noodles I eat are coated with healthy waxy stuff that is supposed to be extremely awesome for one's intestinal walls
[14:16:11] <stpere> JonathanThompson: :)
[14:16:29] * Technix notes the dripping sarcasm in Teknomancer's statement.
[14:16:30] * ari-free spits at monitor
[14:16:42] <Teknomancer> sad, but those are the one's that taste good
[14:16:44] <Teknomancer> :)
[14:16:46] * JonathanThompson wipes down ari-free with a velcro wash cloth
[14:16:47] <Monni> JonathanThompson: Well.. I've had 8 ex-gfs and no kids so far, so dating with me is pretty safe if girl wants to avoid pregnancy ;)
[14:16:48] <Technix> of course
[14:16:52] <stpere> ari-free: mom is making her own kefir
[14:16:53] <stpere> it's good
[14:16:54] <ari-free> healthy waxy stuff?
[14:17:03] <Technix> wow, you do miss things
[14:17:09] * JonathanThompson won't ask if that's because Monni covers up or not
[14:17:14] <Teknomancer> ari-free: what they called hydrogenated fat or something
[14:17:38] <ari-free> hmm i don't think that's healthy...that's trans fat
[14:17:55] <Technix> wait for it...
[14:18:01] <JonathanThompson> Gotta love the trans fat: it keeps the health reassignment doctors employed ;)
[14:18:07] <Technix> bada bing
[14:18:28] <Teknomancer> trans fat oh, yeah some fat.. all i know is my mom won't let me eat those everyday :/
[14:18:29] <JonathanThompson> Am I that predictable, Technix?
[14:18:34] <Technix> yes, lo
[14:18:37] <Technix> llolol
[14:18:46] <Monni> JonathanThompson: Didn't you read the article about number of Swedes staying the same, but population of Sweden still increasing... ;)
[14:18:49] <JonathanThompson> (Ok, I'm sure you still can't predict *exactly* the weirdness that will result)
[14:18:56] <Technix> hell n o
[14:19:02] * Technix HITS HIS FRACKIN KEYBOARD
[14:19:05] <Technix> hell no
[14:19:56] * stpere likes to sah ooh-ahh
[14:19:59] <stpere> say*
[14:20:14] * stpere stares at the puzzled room
[14:20:25] * stpere blinks
[14:20:28] * ari-free likes to say oo rah
[14:20:29] * JonathanThompson would probably be best off with having consciousness off and recovery mode on
[14:20:55] <Technix> dammit, I got servers failing here!
[14:20:57] <Technix> brb
[14:21:02] <JonathanThompson> Otherwise, I'll be more prone to having an asthma attack, especially considering I seem to have lung irritation atm.
[14:21:24] <ddew|bofh> i'm pondering passing out too
[14:21:28] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku
[14:21:35] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps that run Sunday night/Monday morning didn't help...
[14:21:46] *** goosemo has joined #haiku
[14:21:51] <ddew|bofh> think i'll wait another 30 minutes or so though to avoid any unecessary dreaming
[14:22:01] <JonathanThompson> I suspect I surprised a couple walking along the bike path when I ran past them, greeting them with "Good morning!"
[14:22:13] <Technix> either that or the black ski mask
[14:22:23] <JonathanThompson> Considering it wasn't a well-lit area...
[14:22:36] <stpere> haha
[14:22:43] <stpere> good morning, can I rob this, please?
[14:22:44] <JonathanThompson> Well, while what I was wearing above the waist was bright, below the waist was black ;)
[14:22:59] <ari-free> some people aren't used to anyone saying good morning
[14:23:13] <JonathanThompson> That's why it can be such fun to blow minds with being polite ;)
[14:23:34] <Monni> people here are not used to me just saying "Look" instead of "Good Morning"...
[14:23:35] <JonathanThompson> (That, and reminding them that it is that time, even barely, in a weird circumstance)
[14:24:17] *** smtms_ has joined #haiku
[14:24:21] * JonathanThompson sings, "Look, Monni, what's that sound, everyone see what's going round!!!"
[14:25:33] <Monni> JonathanThompson: My 8th ex was so lazy that it took her 2 days to say "Good Morning" so I shortened everything I say ;)
[14:25:52] <Technix> my girl likes to say "Listen..." a lot
[14:26:00] <JonathanThompson> Maybe it was only good for her every other day ;)
[14:26:03] <Technix> so I interrupt her by saying, "Shh, I'm listening"
[14:26:20] <Monni> my ex liked to say "Huo" a lot...
[14:26:32] *** {Vafk} is now known as {V}
[14:27:23] *** psychodealiq has left #haiku
[14:27:30] <Monni> if she said anything else in the morning, I knew something was seriously wrong...
[14:27:56] <Technix> hey, anyone ever stripped down a dining room table before?
[14:28:11] <JonathanThompson> I've not stripped up one, either...
[14:28:12] <Monni> I've stripped down a lot of tables
[14:28:14] *** smtms has quit IRC
[14:28:39] <Technix> basically three steps to finishing it up, right? 1.) stripper, 2.) sander, 3.) Stain/varnish, right"
[14:28:41] <JonathanThompson> You need to decipher whether or not it's wise to disassemble it first.
[14:28:43] <Technix> ?
[14:28:57] *** smtms_ is now known as smtms
[14:29:09] <Technix> yeah, that is a consideration
[14:29:12] <JonathanThompson> And you also need to determine if it has enough real wood to make it safe and sane to do so: a lot of furniture these days is fiberboard ;)
[14:29:12] <Monni> basically two steps ;)
[14:29:27] <Technix> oh, its real wood, plenty thick
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[14:29:53] <Monni> I don't use sander for tables... only for outdoors stuff
[14:29:54] <JonathanThompson> All solid wood, or perhaps a veneer over real wood, or plywood?
[14:30:13] <Technix> all solid wood
[14:30:26] <JonathanThompson> Well, that gives you a lot more wiggle room.
[14:30:31] <Technix> what do you recommend for this dining table, Monni ?
[14:30:45] <Monni> it takes two days to sand down table properly... using other methods it takes less than a day...
[14:30:58] <Technix> oh, so you advocate by hand?
[14:31:00] * JonathanThompson wonders what size of table Monni is using
[14:31:13] <JonathanThompson> Depends on how coordinated you are, I suspect.
[14:31:14] <Monni> JonathanThompson: 6 persons
[14:31:17] <Technix> mine is 65" x 42"
[14:31:28] <Technix> that's without the two leaves
[14:31:38] <JonathanThompson> If you use a tool and aren't very careful, you might find yourself doing the same thing as someone starting out cutting hair may do ;)
[14:31:57] <Technix> I've handled a hand sander before
[14:32:04] <JonathanThompson> My dining room table is 84" * 42"
[14:32:18] <Technix> that's without leaves?
[14:32:19] <JonathanThompson> Was it as good for the sander as it was for you? ;)
[14:32:24] <JonathanThompson> No leaves.
[14:32:29] <Technix> geez, that's huge
[14:32:35] <JonathanThompson> Makes it fun to move ;)
[14:32:38] <Technix> indeed
[14:33:02] <Monni> we have special tools for cleaning table tops... takes one run and it's done...
[14:33:13] <JonathanThompson> Walnut plywood with veneer for the main table surface, solid walnut most of the surrounding part on the edge, and solid oak trestles.
[14:33:50] <Technix> I have to examine it closely, I don't recall if its oak. I know its solid though
[14:33:59] <JonathanThompson> With the way my Dad engineered it, I strongly suspect you could park a small car on it if you did it right ;)
[14:34:01] <Technix> its not a dark grain
[14:34:30] <Technix> iirc, Oak is mostly dark typically, right?
[14:34:37] <JonathanThompson> Depends on the oak.
[14:34:42] <JonathanThompson> Walnut is always dark.
[14:34:59] <JonathanThompson> Oak may have a combination of dark striations with a much lighter main body.
[14:35:04] <Technix> hrm... it might be oak then. I know its fairly heavy for its size
[14:35:16] <Monni> mine is 105 x 75 cm
[14:35:24] <JonathanThompson> If you can bounce a hatchet off it without leaving much more than a minor scratch, it may be oak ;)
[14:35:25] <Technix> if I snapped some pics, would you be able to guess?
[14:35:34] <JonathanThompson> Depends on the stain used.
[14:35:52] <Technix> how about from the underside and sides, that might be helpful
[14:36:03] <JonathanThompson> Using the same wood used in the table, my Dad built me a wagon box, without finishing the wood.
[14:36:05] <Technix> I'll try to get some tonite for this time tomorrow
[14:36:44] <JonathanThompson> It didn't matter that the wood wasn't finished at all: even leaving it out in the rain over a decade, it still (when I tested it) had a hatchet bounce off the edge with barely a nick.
[14:36:50] <Technix> brb phone
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[14:39:03] <Teknomancer> this XMLMind XML Editor is cool :)
[14:39:18] <Teknomancer> even though its in java
[14:40:07] <JonathanThompson> The world has many flaws ;)
[14:40:16] <Technix> ttyl all
[14:40:22] <Technix> its getting busy here at work
[14:40:31] <JonathanThompson> Seeya.
[14:40:48] <Monni> I spent over 5 hours today at work just breaking Xmas lights...
[14:45:53] <Monni> breaking 120 Xmas lights just takes insanely amount of time...
[14:48:33] <DeadYak> what kind of job does one break xmas lights at?
[14:48:50] <Monni> Electrical safety
[14:49:11] <Teknomancer> ok now  it's making sense.
[14:49:11] <Teknomancer> lol
[14:49:36] <DeadYak> ahh
[14:50:43] <Monni> can't sell untested stuff where I live...
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[14:51:39] <Technix> holy crap : http://thedailywtf.com/Comments/A-Clean-Install.aspx#189610
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[14:54:45] <smooki> hi
[14:55:23] <smooki> I've downloaded the last build, it's a .image file type, how can I use this with virtual pc please ?
[14:57:07] <PulkoMandy> i think this one is made for qemu, it's a raw hard disk image
[14:57:53] <smooki> then I don't understand with is the virtua pc compliant file :
[14:57:54] <smooki> (:(
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[15:00:23] <{V}> what's haiku's end-of-line ? LF right?
[15:00:40] <PulkoMandy> i don't know how virtual pc works, maybe you can use this image
[15:00:47] <helf> hi
[15:02:09] <smooki> PulkoMandy: no, I'm currently downloading vmware, but they should explain more about virtual pc use in the website
[15:02:56] <DeadYak> {V}: yes
[15:03:16] <smooki> LF is like unix ?
[15:03:27] <DeadYak> indeed.
[15:05:18] <stef> smooki: you'll need to convert the raw image to a .vhd file, you can use vhdtools for that: http://www.kelley.ca/wordpress/2006/11/30/vhdtools-v031-released/
[15:05:53] <smooki> ok thanks
[15:06:04] <smooki> they should explain this on website anyway ^^
[15:06:26] <stef> the haiku image I just did a quick test with dumped to the kernel debugger during boot though
[15:07:08] <helf> uugh
[15:07:31] <stef> probably best to use vmware for now
[15:07:34] <helf> I just took 3 different pills.. totally 6 capsules and my stomachs like "damn you! damn you to hell!"
[15:07:39] <{V}> thanks DeadYak
[15:08:02] <smtms> helf, trying to commit suicide?
[15:08:25] <DeadYak> {V}: np
[15:08:28] <helf> no, just taking proper doses of a few things
[15:08:34] <helf> :P
[15:08:46] <helf> suicide is for chumps who didn't learn to cope.
[15:09:06] <smtms> mixing drugs is not a good idea
[15:09:30] <helf> naproxen, 2 vitamins and 3 core energy pills from shaklee
[15:10:00] <helf> basically; aleve, multivitamins, guarana :)
[15:10:07] <helf> but my stomach still isn't happy with me...
[15:10:16] <smooki> hmm maybe the emulation is better with vmware than virtua pc *?
[15:10:40] <helf> I thought vmware didn't emulate
[15:10:47] <AlienSoldier> you know there is thing called fruit and vegetable just for that
[15:10:51] <smooki> well virtualize
[15:11:57] <helf> um
[15:12:02] <helf> um
[15:12:20] <helf> there it goes. stupid connection
[15:12:44] <helf> AlienSoldier : psh, this is the 21st century! we don't need no stinkin fruits/veggies :)
[15:13:04] <Monni> veggie is synonym for brain dead ;)
[15:13:19] <Monni> stinking fruit = durian ;)
[15:13:38] <helf> heh
[15:14:38] <Monni> brb... need to restart... stupid Winblows is leaking more than Niagara Falls
[15:14:40] <AlienSoldier> there was a time in video games were collecting fruit was the only thing that matter, now it's all about ammo
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[15:15:18] <helf> ammo is more fun ;)
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[15:16:50] <AlienSoldier> finished Bangaio the other day, and picking a 10,000 point pineapple was fun :)
[15:17:09] <helf> heh
[15:17:36] <AlienSoldier> fruit are stollen by the Space fruit gang :)
[15:17:51] <smooki> ok I got kernel panic while booting haiku :'(
[15:18:16] <smooki> 'coud not mount boot device!'
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[15:19:19] <helf> hmmm... looks like it couldn't mount the boot device..
[15:19:20] <helf> ;)
[15:19:34] <smooki> I need an previous build, somebody know a 'stable' release ?
[15:20:08] <smooki> that boot al least
[15:22:54] <DeadYak> are you sure a previous build boots?
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[15:24:12] <smooki> well I try the previous build, to see that
[15:28:46] <helf> bbl
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[15:41:00] <smooki> ok I got same probleme with previous build of haiku, kernel panic while booting
[15:42:29] *** {V} has quit IRC
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[15:43:32] <{V}> thanks DeadYak :)
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[15:50:33] <helf> back :)
[15:50:34] <helf> @ work
[15:50:35] <ThomHolwerda> right-o
[15:50:46] <ThomHolwerda> im going to contact my "law insurance"
[15:50:53] <ThomHolwerda> so basically, im going to contact a lawyer
[15:50:56] <ThomHolwerda> on th eapple eula issue
[15:51:11] <ThomHolwerda> i want it black-on-white nw
[15:51:13] <ThomHolwerda> now*
[15:51:31] <helf> EULA.. with the clones?
[15:52:05] <ThomHolwerda> yeah
[15:52:06] <smtms> black on white? that should be expensive
[15:52:11] <helf> EULA aren't protected by law
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[15:52:32] <ThomHolwerda> according to duch civil law, agreements wrt to purchase of property are only valid when agreed upon PRIOR to purchase
[15:52:50] <smtms> "property"
[15:53:03] <ThomHolwerda> property as in, goods.
[15:53:06] <ThomHolwerda> not homes.
[15:53:35] <ThomHolwerda> homes and land are special cases, they are not covered by the purchase/sale sctions in civil law
[15:56:49] <ThomHolwerda> smtms: my law insurance covers legal and justice advice even prior to any disagreements or issues
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[16:09:28] * smooki downloading vmware :'(
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[16:13:30] <Begasus> 'lo peeps
[16:13:56] <ddew|bofh> heh, this is neat. once haiku self-hosts i might just be able to use this system full-time
[16:14:27] <ddew|bofh> even firefox is stable enough and there aren't any noticable memleaks to speak of
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[16:19:53] <plfiorini> ddew|bofh: i thoght haiku is self-hosting since two weeks
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[16:20:03] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666
[16:20:08] <ddew|bofh> it's not here anyway :)
[16:22:10] <CIA-34> stippi * r24966 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/AboutSystem.cpp: (log message trimmed)
[16:22:10] <CIA-34> Applied patch by Scott McCreary:
[16:22:10] <CIA-34> * Added a whole lot of missing copyright statements, small corrections in
[16:22:10] <CIA-34>  some existing ones.
[16:22:10] <CIA-34> Changes by myself:
[16:22:11] <CIA-34> * Fixed line breaks to honor 80 char limit.
[16:22:12] <CIA-34> * Removed unused function declaration to avoid warning.
[16:22:52] <ddew|bofh> works well enough so that i can keep on learning the api and stuff but i can't build haiku in it's entirety yet
[16:22:53] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24967 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/posix/sys/mman.cpp:
[16:22:53] <CIA-34> mmap() was a little strict: The length parameter need not be page
[16:22:53] <CIA-34> aligned. It shall be rounded up by the implementation.
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[16:38:23] <smooki> hmmm haiku does not come with netpositive ?
[16:38:46] <smooki> how to install a browser ?
[16:39:12] <ddew|bofh> wget firefox
[16:39:30] <ddew|bofh> or check if links is on your image
[16:39:39] <Teknomancer> how ironic,  Haiku doesn't come with Net+ ?
[16:40:08] <ddew|bofh> how's that ironic?
[16:40:20] <AlienSoldier> the haiku name come from net+
[16:40:27] <ddew|bofh> it's an unfinished os, a webbrowser is pretty low on the list
[16:40:30] <Teknomancer> i thought you'd all have known that by now
[16:41:04] <ddew|bofh> i'm very well aware of the haikus in net+ :)
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[16:41:46] <smooki> ddew|bofh: do you find the url for bezilla ?
[16:41:57] <smooki> the haiku version is called bezilla right ?
[16:42:09] <ddew|bofh> i'll give you a link, hang on
[16:42:23] <smooki> thanks a lot
[16:42:34] <ddew|bofh> http://bebits.com/bob/21717/firefox-2.0.0.15pre.en-US.BeOS-bone-2008041302.zip
[16:42:47] <smooki> thank !
[16:42:59] <smooki> I missed the point wget is via http not ftp :]
[16:43:04] <AlienSoldier> intel result should not be pretty at the end of the day
[16:43:36] <ddew|bofh> warning though, it's an experimental build but i've not had any issues with it
[16:45:35] <smooki> ddew|bofh: I understand everything in haiku now may be considered as experimental
[16:45:47] <smooki> but how good it is to see beos again !
[16:46:17] <smooki> this make me whant to learn more c++ and try to develop some beos applications :)
[16:46:25] <ddew|bofh> yeah, it's exciting
[16:46:48] <ddew|bofh> only down-side is that after using haiku for a few hours r5 or zeta feels like utter crap :)
[16:47:11] <smooki> hehe
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[16:48:25] <smooki> ddew|bofh: where do I unzip the archive please ?
[16:48:40] <ddew|bofh> anywhere you like :)
[16:48:49] <smooki> then I lanunch it like this ?
[16:49:06] <ddew|bofh> i prefer having apps in /boot/apps and doing links to /boot/home/config/be/Applications
[16:49:53] <ddew|bofh> you don't need to "install" apps, most of the time you can just unzip and launch them
[16:49:59] <smooki> ok
[16:50:04] <smooki> I remember this now :)
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[16:50:10] <smooki> hehe
[16:50:32] <smooki> ff running :)
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[17:01:09] <ThomHolwerda> there, lawyer contacted
[17:01:25] <ThomHolwerda> i want to know the nitty gritty wrt to (apple's) eula.
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[17:04:28] <Wiss> hi
[17:04:41] <ddew|bofh> hiya
[17:04:50] <Wiss> Who is Stephan ?
[17:05:21] <ddew|bofh> not me
[17:05:30] <Wiss> lol
[17:05:33] <ddew|bofh> :)
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[17:05:43] <Wiss> no problem, I'll write him an email
[17:06:05] <ddew|bofh> that's probably easier
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[17:14:04] <mmu_man> Wiss /ns info stippi
[17:14:36] <mmu_man> hmm oddly it doesn't give the name :)
[17:16:04] <Wiss> mmu_man : hi !
[17:16:30] <Wiss> ok, stippi is not here, no problem, I'm writing to him
[17:16:56] <Wiss> I'm really happy to know that my project is interesting for you
[17:17:09] <mmu_man> bbl
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[17:17:30] <ddew|bofh> what's your project?
[17:18:30] <Wiss> Just for information, could you say me how many project are more interesting than "Writing a CFIS client" ?
[17:18:48] <Wiss> ddew|bofh : "writing a CIFS client" :)
[17:19:17] <ddew|bofh> cifs client is interesting, but i think working os the os is more important
[17:19:29] <ddew|bofh> i'm assuming you're talking about gsoc?
[17:19:35] <Wiss> yes
[17:20:50] <Wiss> Could you say me how many slots google allowed you the last year and how many projects are more important than mine this year ? really thanks for the information
[17:20:58] <DeadYak> what's defined as "working on the OS"?
[17:21:10] <DeadYak> Wiss: last year we had 8 slots
[17:21:35] <ddew|bofh> well mounting a remote filesystem ranks lower (in my book) than say work on the VM or something similar :)
[17:21:58] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: yes but there's also a project involving the VM :P
[17:22:04] <ddew|bofh> :)
[17:22:19] <ddew|bofh> i'm just thinking in terms of getting an alpha out the door
[17:22:20] <DeadYak> bear in mind though realistically it's based on what projects we actually get
[17:22:23] <Wiss> 8 slots ??? wahou It's great
[17:22:28] <DeadYak> Wiss:  that was last year
[17:22:32] <DeadYak> Wiss: this year probably won't be as many
[17:22:39] <DeadYak> a lot more projects involved in GSoC this year
[17:23:01] <ddew|bofh> hopefully the recent buzz around haiku will work in our favour
[17:25:07] * ddew|bofh crosses his fingers in hope of having an alpha installed before the year's over :)
[17:25:31] <ddew|bofh> as a full-time install that is
[17:25:35] <smooki> ok seems that app server still need some work, a lot of draw refresh fail
[17:25:46] <ddew|bofh> the firefox bug
[17:25:48] <ddew|bofh> ?
[17:26:08] <DeadYak> I've only seen that happen with firefox
[17:26:10] <smooki> what is a CIFS client ?
[17:26:25] <ddew|bofh> samba
[17:26:26] <DeadYak> smooki: SMB file sharing
[17:26:29] <smooki> ok
[17:26:59] <smooki> well first we need a R1 :) to make more and more dev be fan of haiku don't you think ?
[17:27:08] <smooki> openGL would be nice as well
[17:27:42] <DeadYak> yes but as I said, the SoC projects are based on what the students propose
[17:27:42] <ddew|bofh> we have opengl, it's just not hw accelerated :P
[17:27:45] <DeadYak> we can't make them do things out of thin air that they never suggested as projects
[17:27:54] <smooki> I'm sure than when a stable build is release, a lot of people would be interested
[17:27:54] <smooki> oops :)
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[17:28:01] <smooki> well we need HW acceleration then ;P
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[17:28:28] <smooki> oh
[17:28:42] <smooki> students :]
[17:28:51] <DeadYak> we can just pick which ones we think are the best proposals and most likely to be long term contributors
[17:29:11] <smooki> where is that ?
[17:29:31] <DeadYak> not public at the moment.
[17:29:31] <Wiss> and which ones do you think are the best proposals, DeadYak ?
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[17:30:14] <DeadYak> Wiss: not sure how much I'm allowed to say about that at this point, also some of them are a bit outside my area to really judge well
[17:30:21] <smooki> a real time after effect ? :)
[17:30:32] <DeadYak> huh?
[17:30:47] <smooki> : x
[17:31:02] <Wiss> ok
[17:31:12] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: i'm guessing haiku inc is a tad more careful when choosing candidates this year given last years results?
[17:31:50] <dr_evil> One would hope so
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[17:32:28] <AlienSoldier> the best summer of code news will be when a haiku app project will be accepted
[17:32:49] <smooki> ya
[17:33:18] <DeadYak> such a thing would probably have to apply as a separate organization unless it's to be a bundled app
[17:34:04] <smooki> I hope blender will be back to haiku as well
[17:34:05] <AlienSoldier> i could see a full fledged actually usefull "cortex" could fare well
[17:36:59] <{V}> I just resumed a vmware image.. apparently I was looking through some C code last time it ran..
[17:37:03] <ddew|bofh> work on the webkit or java port would be awesome. but that's not technically part of haiku, just very beneficial :)
[17:37:04] <DeadYak> cortex is pretty useful as is...
[17:37:18] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: that's why I said those would probably have to apply as separate organizations
[17:37:36] <ddew|bofh> yeah, but one can dream :)
[17:38:03] <ddew|bofh> realistically i'd be happier to see work on the VM system
[17:39:14] <ddew|bofh> that and the filesystem apis
[17:39:28] <DeadYak> what about the filesystem apis?
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[17:40:23] <ddew|bofh> sorry, brain-fart. i meant the disk bits
[17:40:32] <DeadYak> ?
[17:41:22] <ddew|bofh> well i still run into issues with the block writer occasionally for example
[17:41:41] <DeadYak> that one I haven't run into again since the last fix
[17:42:20] <ddew|bofh> i experienced it on 24964 earlier today
[17:42:34] <Wiss> I have to leave... good bye, at the next time
[17:42:41] <ddew|bofh> tata
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[17:43:07] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: did you note that in bug #2059? :)
[17:44:16] <ddew|bofh> if i can get dev.haiku-os.org working i'll do that
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[17:45:22] <burfi> Psystar playing cat an mice with Apple
[17:45:35] <ddew|bofh> hang on, the new ide stack is included in the image by default?
[17:45:52] <DeadYak> no.
[17:45:56] <DeadYak> not yet.
[17:46:04] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24968 /haiku/trunk/build/scripts/build_haiku_image:
[17:46:04] <CIA-34> Simplified creation of the MIME DB. We create it in a directory first
[17:46:04] <CIA-34> and then copy it in one go instead of copying individual files. Also use
[17:46:04] <CIA-34> a single temp file instead of one for every entry.
[17:46:20] <DeadYak> I use it here because it seems to work better with my SATA controller
[17:46:25] <DeadYak> but it's not the default yet
[17:46:41] <burfi> Apple lawyers took down the OpenMac site, now they are back under a different name
[17:47:06] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: is it as stable as the old one or is it still in flux?
[17:47:12] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: I just build images for Koki sometimes, so I wind up switching back and forth a lot
[17:47:19] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: main downside is the new one doesn't support ATAPI yet.
[17:47:26] <DeadYak> which is why koki has me use the old one for his images
[17:47:36] <DeadYak> sometimes I forget to switch that Jamfile back
[17:47:37] <DeadYak> shrug
[17:48:03] <ddew|bofh> meh, i can live without atapi :)
[17:48:16] <ddew|bofh> i'll rebuild with the new stack
[17:49:00] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: know how?
[17:49:33] <ddew|bofh> not exactly, but i'm assuming i'll just have to fiddle around with the Haikuimage file?
[17:49:36] <DeadYak> nope
[17:49:50] <ddew|bofh> then please enlighten me :)
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[17:49:57] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: open up src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/Jamfile and change ide to ata
[17:50:51] <ddew|bofh> cheers
[17:51:02] <DeadYak> hope it works better for ya
[17:51:20] <DeadYak> and now, back to figuring out why asterisk is being stupid :/
[17:51:32] <ddew|bofh> who knows, maybe i'll even be able to self-host? :)
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[18:12:04] <aroman_iphone>  morning
[18:12:09] <DeadYak> hiya :)
[18:12:10] <DeadYak> in class? :P
[18:12:14] <aroman_iphone> no
[18:12:22] <aroman_iphone> on way to work
[18:12:24] <DeadYak> ah
[18:12:27] <aroman_iphone> :)
[18:12:30] <DeadYak> on a bus or something you're not driving I hope :)
[18:12:39] <aroman_iphone> no lol
[18:12:52] <aroman_iphone> in my buddys car
[18:12:56] <DeadYak> ok good :)
[18:13:04] <DeadYak> one of my coworkers has been known to IM while driving
[18:13:11] <DeadYak> so I get kind of scared when I see people online from their phones :)
[18:13:21] <aroman_iphone> figured out the debugging messages last night
[18:13:54] <aroman_iphone> thet come out only on the serial port
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[18:13:56] <DeadYak> yeah?
[18:13:58] <DeadYak> ahhh.
[18:14:03] <aroman_iphone> yep
[18:14:18] <aroman_iphone> i posted the log
[18:16:24] <aroman_iphone> colloquy is nice :)
[18:16:39] <aroman_iphone> for irc on iphone :)
[18:18:23] <aroman_iphone> anyways... bbl
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[18:20:47] <ThomHolwerda> http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/images/003aarde.jpg
[18:20:48] <ThomHolwerda> lol
[18:21:02] <ThomHolwerda> ESA made that one
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[18:27:07] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24969 /haiku/trunk/ (114 files in 3 dirs): Added libMicro benchmark. Ported by Vasilis Kaoutsis.
[18:27:34] <ddew|bofh> hmm, so far the new ide manager seems to work a lot better
[18:27:59] <ddew|bofh> it's way faster than the older one on this machine
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[18:35:18] <helf> hola
[18:35:23] <ddew|bofh> yo
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[18:36:48] <aroman> I'm back
[18:36:49] <DeadYak> wb
[18:36:50] <helf> sup ddew
[18:37:03] * DeadYak pets helf
[18:37:15] <helf> hey man
[18:37:31] <ddew|bofh> not much, busy testing the ide stack and praying that it'll work better
[18:37:38] <helf> fun
[18:37:44] <helf> im taking lunch.. bbl again ;P
[18:37:47] <ddew|bofh> heh
[18:37:53] <ddew|bofh> gl hf
[18:38:22] <DHowett> *pines* there are so many interesting files in /usr/share/misc
[18:38:30] <DeadYak> DHowett: blink
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[18:39:13] <DHowett> I fail to see the use of them. /usr/share/misc/birthtoken? really? "August:Peridot:Gladiolus"
[18:39:28] <DeadYak> DHowett: on what sys?
[18:39:33] <ddew|bofh> you'd be surprised ;)
[18:40:09] <DHowett> Linux.. at least, Gentoo, but i'm SURE gentoo packagers aren't just insane. Just in a package called "miscfiles"
[18:41:35] <DHowett> apparently http://directory.fsf.org/project/miscfiles/
[18:42:05] <DeadYak> [ebuild  N    ] sys-apps/miscfiles-1.4.2  USE="-minimal" 1,490 kB - that?
[18:42:22] <DHowett> indeed.
[18:42:25] <DeadYak> ah
[18:42:41] <DHowett> dependency pulled in by games-misc/bsd-games.. i see ;)
[18:43:39] <Teknomancer> nite all
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[18:54:34] * ddew|bofh is idle: off
[18:54:42] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24970 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/ (HaikuImage OptionalTestPackages):
[18:54:42] <CIA-34> * Created OptionalTestPackages for optional packages that contain test
[18:54:42] <CIA-34>  suites and the like, and moved the image jam code for PosixTestSuite
[18:54:42] <CIA-34>  and libMicro there.
[18:54:42] <CIA-34> * Some cleanup (line length, use grist).
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[19:14:35] <helf> back
[19:16:29] <Paradoxon> Hi
[19:17:00] <Paradoxon> Ist there any way to get a BPicture out of the Haiku Icon Format
[19:17:49] <CIA-34> oruizdorantes * r24971 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/bluetooth/ (LocalDeviceHandler.cpp LocalDeviceImpl.cpp):
[19:18:13] <DeadYak> Paradoxon: possibly...have you looked at how Tracker extracts/uses them?
[19:18:22] <Paradoxon> Not yet...
[19:18:56] <DeadYak> that'd probably be your best bet offhand...
[19:19:04] <Paradoxon> My hope was that there is a way to store BPictures out of Icon-O-Matic ;-)
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[19:19:10] <Stargater> hi
[19:19:33] <DeadYak> Paradoxon: I haven't played with Icon-o-matic recently, and I'm unfortunately at work right now so I don't know the answer to that offhand
[19:19:49] <Paradoxon> OK ..
[19:19:55] <DeadYak> sorry :)
[19:20:10] <Paradoxon> You are welcome :-D
[19:20:13] <DeadYak> if it's not there, you might want to ask stippi how hard it'd be to add that as a feature
[19:20:28] <DeadYak> since HVIF and Icon-o-matic are pretty much his pets
[19:20:32] <Paradoxon> Hehe...
[19:20:39] <Paradoxon> Shure :)
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[19:25:01] <Paradoxon> Another crazy Question ;-)
[19:25:42] <Paradoxon> Has Anyone a Idea...how it would be possible to make a View wich can switch between "normal View" and "paged View" (PrintPreview)
[19:26:00] <Paradoxon> But it should also render its Children this way..
[19:26:09] <Paradoxon> that its paged or normal..
[19:26:53] <Paradoxon> uh.. i am really bad with explaning.. :(
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[19:27:51] <Paradoxon> Just a View wich can display its content and all the content of his childs as Paged View  (Print Preview)
[19:28:04] <Paradoxon> Any idea how to implement this??
[19:28:10] <Paradoxon> :-D
[19:28:28] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24972 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/makebootable/platform/bios_ia32/makebootable.cpp:
[19:28:28] <CIA-34> makebootable was broken under Haiku:
[19:28:28] <CIA-34> * Haiku partitions are block devices.
[19:28:28] <CIA-34> * Unlike BeOS Haiku requires a size parameter to be passed to ioctl()
[19:28:28] <CIA-34>  for B_GET_PARTITION_INFO.
[19:33:48] <Paradoxon> How bad would be the Performance if i draw all childs  first on a BView and then generated Bitmap to a BView (in paged Mode)
[19:34:28] <DeadYak> Paradoxon: you mean an offscreen bitmap?
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[19:44:31] <Paradoxon> Year..
[19:44:55] <Paradoxon> thats the only way i could think of.
[19:45:05] <DeadYak> that should work fine
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[19:45:14] <Paradoxon> And Speed???
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[19:45:32] <DeadYak> again, should be fine, if you draw into the offscreen bitmap and then blit it onscreen it'll be quite fast to draw
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[19:45:58] <Paradoxon> Just use Normal DrawBitmap or DrawBitmapAsync..
[19:46:03] <Paradoxon> ??
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[19:46:13] <DeadYak> Paradoxon: actually, what you can do is AddChild a view to the bitmap
[19:46:18] <DeadYak> and then have the view draw into the bitmap that way
[19:46:25] <DeadYak> then yeah, DrawBitmap the bitmap off the visible view
[19:46:30] <Paradoxon> Thtas was my Idea..
[19:46:31] <Paradoxon> :-)
[19:46:33] <Paradoxon> Cool
[19:46:50] <Paradoxon> So Will make a PageView..
[19:47:01] <Paradoxon> for my ProjectConceptor :-D
[19:47:34] <Paradoxon> Thanks for your Help DeadYak!!!
[19:48:25] <DeadYak> np, good luck :)
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[19:56:03] <Paradoxon> Thanks :)
[19:56:37] <helf> why are little kid songs so morbid?
[19:56:57] <helf> little bunny foo foo is about a rabbit abducting field mice and killing them by bashing their skulls in
[20:03:10] <Monni> pretty good question...
[20:03:20] <pyCube> for fun
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[20:04:58] <Monni> maybe they think it's good way to reduce "overpopulation"...
[20:05:08] *** Begasus has joined #haiku
[20:05:15] <Monni> wb Begasus
[20:05:35] <Begasus> hi Monni ;)
[20:05:46] <Monni> long time no sea :)
[20:05:58] <Begasus> :P
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[20:06:20] <Begasus> how's it going?
[20:06:24] <Begasus> office still a mess? :P
[20:06:39] <Monni> Begasus: Nah... only 120 Xmas lights
[20:07:08] <Begasus> hehe
[20:07:28] <Monni> Begasus: Took me over 5 hours to get sorted out...
[20:07:51] <Begasus> how's that?
[20:07:52] <Technix> you breaking lights again, Monni ?
[20:08:02] <Begasus> as usual Technix ;)
[20:08:05] <Technix> hehehe
[20:08:08] <Begasus> hi Technix btw
[20:08:11] <Technix> hi buddy
[20:08:16] * Technix high fives Begasus
[20:08:19] <Monni> Begasus: 120 Xmas lights is pretty long cable...
[20:08:30] * Begasus returs the favor
[20:08:51] <Begasus> nah Monni .. our xmas tree alone holds about 200 lights :P
[20:09:31] <Monni> Begasus: Well.. try separating the the cords from the lamp sockets and unwind them...
[20:10:02] <Begasus> if somethings broken we just replace the whole thing ;)
[20:10:28] <Monni> Begasus: Well... and I end up being the one returning the working lamps to new customers...
[20:10:53] <Begasus> ah ... so you still have them up to check the working lamps? :P
[20:11:36] <Monni> Begasus: well... companies like to reuse them in Xmas parties... they use assload of them and don't want to buy new ones each years...
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[20:12:53] <Monni> Begasus: I have to straighten the lamps, test them and then bend them back so they fit back in the socket...
[20:12:59] <Begasus> tell them to switch to the newer/less expensive ones ;)
[20:13:22] <Monni> Begasus: Well.. the worm lamps are IN, but those don't look good on Xmas trees...
[20:14:21] <Monni> lava lamps are pretty much OUT nowadays... were IN maybe about 2 years ago...
[20:16:02] <{Vafk}> Monni, does that mean lava lamps _do_ look good on Xmas trees?
[20:16:22] <DeadYak> I'm trying to picture that
[20:16:25] <DeadYak> and failing
[20:16:29] <Monni> {Vafk}: Nah... But companies did use them in Xmas parties...
[20:16:40] <cps1966>  spring has sprung
[20:16:43] *** {Vafk} is now known as {V}
[20:17:27] <Begasus> 'lo guys
[20:17:28] <Monni> DeadYak: I one did saw people put lava lamps inside school radio equipment... that did look pretty weird...
[20:17:34] * Begasus plops DeadYak
[20:17:38] * DeadYak plops Begasus
[20:17:41] <Begasus> ;)
[20:17:45] <DeadYak> Monni: yeah, but on christmas trees?
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[20:18:01] <DeadYak> I guess if you wanted to give off the effect that you had some really big candles on there
[20:18:09] <Monni> DeadYak: well... you can actually hang them in anywhere...
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[20:18:55] <cps1966> i remember those bubble lights way back
[20:18:56] <Monni> just like you can put cat in a washing machine or microwave oven... it works for a while and then it ends up in disaster...
[20:19:16] <Begasus> hehe
[20:19:34] <Monni> hamsters in drum dryer works even better...
[20:19:56] <Begasus> as long as there are no dogs involved :P
[20:20:15] * DeadYak pets his dog
[20:20:50] <aroman> what are the differences between haiku jam and normal jam?
[20:20:55] * Begasus pets DeadYak's dog
[20:21:05] <Begasus> the 'session'? ^^
[20:21:18] <DeadYak> pardon?
[20:21:23] <Monni> different bugs ;)
[20:21:29] <DeadYak> aroman: max command length
[20:21:42] <DeadYak> command / rule / etc.
[20:22:02] <DeadYak> the stock jam ran into length problems with some of Haiku's larger linker rules
[20:22:15] <aroman> ah, I s
[20:22:19] <aroman> see*
[20:22:27] <Monni> "I C" ;)
[20:22:41] <aroman> I asm ;)
[20:22:50] <Monni> I TCL
[20:23:05] <aroman> I 01000111010010010010
[20:23:22] <Monni> does binary math count as foreplay ;)
[20:23:43] * DeadYak fondles Monni  with a register
[20:23:45] * aroman starts editing a VHDL file :P
[20:26:16] <Monni> I always run out of register when doing asm... stupid X86 instruction set...
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[20:27:08] <aroman> Monni: ever tried ARM? I really like it for the abundance of registers
[20:27:29] <Monni> aroman: my pda runs ARM, but I haven't tried coding for it yet...
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[20:28:45] <helf> sweet
[20:28:49] <Monni> I wonder what happens when it crashes... I once did erase it's operating system, but it still did boot...
[20:28:52] <Begasus> 'lo helf
[20:28:55] <helf> hot plugging IDE drivers works pretty darn well in XP :P
[20:28:58] <helf> hi Begasus
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[20:30:13] <Monni> flashing operating system ROM over USB was pretty weird task to do...
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[20:32:28] <Monni> shows up as USB modem in Winblows... haven't tried with Linux or BeOS yet... somehow USB doesn't quite work under BeOS...
[20:34:26] <aroman> Monni: usually USB modems use the CDC class.. If it's the standard one linux should uspport it. BeOS/Haiku would probably need the CDC class to be implemented
[20:35:06] <Monni> aroman: anyway to check what class it is under Winblows...
[20:35:54] <helf> i hate USB IO devices
[20:35:59] <helf> usb ethernet.. uugh
[20:36:01] * helf shivers
[20:36:29] <aroman> Monni: there's this program that comes with the WDK.. usbview.exe
[20:36:35] <Monni> using it as media source in WMP is pretty weird...
[20:36:36] <aroman> Monni: it shows all the device descriptors
[20:36:53] * helf dislikes USB
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[20:38:26] <Monni> Device Descriptor:
[20:38:26] <Monni> bcdUSB:             0x0200
[20:38:26] <Monni> bDeviceClass:         0x02
[20:38:26] <Monni> bDeviceSubClass:      0x00
[20:38:26] <Monni> bDeviceProtocol:      0x00
[20:39:12] <aroman> uhh... lemme check the usb specs
[20:41:17] <xcasex> umccullough: how goes it?
[20:41:44] <aroman> Monni: yeah, it's standard CDC
[20:41:53] <aroman> should work (tm) but no guarantees :P
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[20:42:06] <xcasex> Monni: moko freerunner?
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[20:42:51] <Monni> xcasex: huh...
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[20:44:15] <korli> evening
[20:45:03] <Begasus> evening
[20:48:02] <Monni> NMWCD\VID_0421\PID_002F&CDC_MODEM\6&15EA343&1&08 ;)
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[20:51:28] <Monni> I tried one Huawei shit on BeOS too, but it didn't even power up USB controller...
[20:52:32] <Monni> and chipset was even in supported devices list...
[20:52:41] <dr_evil> anyone from .fr here? I could use some help. Does IDE2CF-B1 support DMA mode? I can't translate http://www.pcextreme-fr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=43278
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[20:56:28] <korli> hi dr_evil, what do you need to know on this page ?
[20:59:04] <dr_evil> I would like to know if the adapter supports DMA mode
[20:59:19] <dr_evil> google found the page when searching for IDE2CF-B1 and DMA
[20:59:47] <dr_evil> what does "Tout au plus, ta carte sera reconnue par le bios en mode PIO 4." mean?
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[21:01:59] <korli> it says : at most the card will be recognized by the bios with mode PIO4
[21:02:19] <aroman> dr_evil: means the BIOS will recognize the card in PIO 4 mode
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[21:02:32] <aroman> PIO = Programmed IO
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[21:05:23] <TheNerd> is there any particular reason why on a laptop with AC97 audio the CD volume is muted by default?
[21:05:36] <TheNerd> seems to be the case everytime I build and boot into haiku
[21:07:10] <CIA-34> axeld * r24973 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/system/kernel/device_manager/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
[21:07:10] <CIA-34> * Started playground for the new device manager. This will eventually evolve
[21:07:10] <CIA-34>  into the full thing, and will then be adapted to the kernel.
[21:07:10] <CIA-34> * Doesn't do a lot at this point - it can be built as a test app under BeOS
[21:07:10] <CIA-34>  and Haiku.
[21:07:23] <dr_evil> korli thanks. I have that adapter, and exactly this problem. the bios only uses PIO 4, but doesn't try DMA. perhaps the adapter is missing the required lines
[21:08:33] <helf> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/ap_en_tv/people_rob_lowe
[21:08:52] <helf> seems like everyone and their uncle is suing stars over "sex scandals"
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[21:12:28] <korli> dr_evil: it also says you can eventually force the dma mode in the bios
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[21:13:39] <dr_evil> no thats impossible here
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[21:24:23] <DeadYak> helf: welcome to america, land of the prudes
[21:24:50] <pyCube> hehe
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[21:27:14] <MindChild> DeadYak: apparently youve never gone to college
[21:27:16] <dr_evil> welcome to millions of dollars for compensation
[21:27:26] <DeadYak> MindChild: apparently you're wrong.
[21:27:37] <MindChild> *WOOSH*
[21:27:54] <DeadYak> and if you think I'm unaware of sex in dorms then you're kidding yourself
[21:28:11] <MindChild> Take it as a personal jab rather than get the actual point of the line
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[21:28:19] <DeadYak> which was?
[21:28:34] <MindChild> I can't explain to you why water is wet
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[21:28:48] <DeadYak> if you're trying to say this country doesn't have the world's most fucked up attitude towards sex, then you're lying to yourself.
[21:29:03] * procton agrees with DeadYak
[21:29:06] <MindChild> That was my POINT
[21:29:13] <DeadYak> welcome to whoosh-land then.
[21:29:30] <MindChild> See, you start with "America: full of prudes". I come back with "College: proof otherwise"
[21:29:35] <MindChild> That. Is. All.
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[21:29:58] * Begasus is glad to be in BE ^^
[21:30:10] <pyCube> MindChild: thats not proof of anything
[21:30:11] <Begasus> even with our politicians ;)
[21:30:30] <DeadYak> MindChild: that proves nothing with respect to the current state of our laws
[21:30:45] <DeadYak> MindChild: people could be having orgies out in public parks, that still doesn't mean we don't have the world's most prudish laws.
[21:30:46] <MindChild> What does LAWS have anything to do with being prude?
[21:31:02] <MindChild> oh. You were talking about the laws
[21:31:12] <MindChild> I thought you were talking baout the general mindset of the public
[21:31:40] <cps1966> tv exploits sex here
[21:31:48] <MindChild> The lawmakers are 90 years old, and that's how it was back when they grew up
[21:31:56] <DeadYak> MindChild: the vocal minority that influences the law is
[21:31:59] <DeadYak> see asshats like the PTC
[21:32:01] <pyCube> fucking anythign you can find as a reaction to growing up in a prudish society isnt proof of lack of prudishness
[21:32:45] <MindChild> Society isn't prudish. The laws may want us to be, but that isn't the direction of the majority
[21:32:46] <cps1966> california is light years ahead of the rest of the country
[21:32:57] <procton> The perfect example is radioheads music video, which I forgot the name of...
[21:33:14] <DeadYak> then explain: Janet Jackson's nipple and the ensuing fines
[21:33:33] <DeadYak> if that's not prudishness, I don't know what is.
[21:33:40] <procton> In the US the boobs of the animated mermaids were censured, while in europe the chopped off legs and arms were censured.
[21:34:03] <MindChild> DeadYak: almost no one who SAW it really CARED
[21:34:15] <MindChild> But the FCC cared because they had one go over on them
[21:34:23] <MindChild> the politicians care because THINK OF THE CHILDREN
[21:34:38] <DeadYak> exactly my point.
[21:35:13] <MindChild> Even children need boobies in thier lives
[21:35:15] <procton> I bet you the "religious" cared.. "oh... that horrible horrible jackson."
[21:35:25] <DeadYak> exactly why it's complete BS
[21:35:42] <Begasus> and here I was thinking the US was way ahead of us .. ;)
[21:35:42] <DeadYak> what's probably one of the first things you'll ever see in your life? a nipple. so wtf's the big deal?
[21:37:01] <procton> perhaps the majority of the US ppl were grown up on breast milk substitute? That would explain it...
[21:37:14] <pyCube> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1115588035270422761&q=zappa+crossfire&total=61&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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[21:42:02] <procton> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8asQsfn82E 5:30 in to the video is where the censuring begins (not in this clip though)
[21:44:52] <Begasus> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D20yCEDye2Q (kid playing tuxmath) ;)
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[21:47:37] <Technix> omg, procton
[21:47:41] <Technix> PROCTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!
[21:47:53] * DeadYak steals all of procton's caffeine sources
[21:48:11] <[Katisu]> most people in the US are "Don't shove your sexuality down my throat", which you may consider prudes
[21:48:15] <procton> Technix: :D
[21:48:24] <Technix> you still got that piece of crap bike? :P
[21:48:33] <[Katisu]> but it is the same lines as "Don't shove your religion down my throat"
[21:48:34] <procton> nope...
[21:48:37] * {V} hides his coffee, tea and coca-cola from DeadYak
[21:48:43] <procton> Got another one...
[21:48:46] <Technix> cool
[21:48:50] <Technix> how you been man?
[21:48:59] <DeadYak> {V}: it's a long running joke between me and Procton :)
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[21:49:05] <DeadYak> {V}: you're safe :)
[21:49:16] <Begasus> atleast for now ;)
[21:49:32] <{V}> DeadYak, are you sure you're not lulling me into a false sense of security? :p
[21:49:41] <procton> Technix: http://tcm.bazment.se/templates/bike.aspx?page_id=1211 although 2007
[21:49:50] <DeadYak> {V}: you fixed my CPUID, you're safe
[21:49:52] <DeadYak> :)
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[21:50:15] <Technix> looks alright!
[21:50:16] <{V}> *phew*
[21:50:19] * procton steels DeadYak's caffeine IV
[21:50:25] <DeadYak> procton: what IV? :P
[21:50:26] <helf> caffeine IV.. lol
[21:50:27] <HeTo> I guess it's no Haiku for my laptop as of now, or there's something wrong with the way I installed it
[21:50:35] <DeadYak> procton: I moved on to caffeine implants ages ago
[21:50:36] <procton> Technix: a really nice bike it is.
[21:50:46] <procton> Technix: How's life treating you?
[21:50:58] <procton> DeadYak: :D
[21:51:28] <Technix> life is alright. I have a steady job, and a future wife
[21:51:33] <koki_haiku> HeTo, how did you install it?
[21:51:36] <HeTo> everything is awfully slow, over 20 minutes uptime and still no desktop icons
[21:51:46] <procton> Technix: wow... life is treating you good. :D
[21:51:57] <helf> future wife?
[21:52:00] <helf> and you said life was good?
[21:52:01] <koki_haiku> HeTo, have a mouse pointer?
[21:52:02] <helf> ;P
[21:52:14] <Technix> yeah. after spending four years in NL, struggling to find work (it sucked at times), I decided to come back to Canada, and haven't regretted it
[21:52:38] <Technix> helf: yup, there ain't nothing I wouldn't do for her too
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[21:52:46] <helf> lucky
[21:52:51] <helf> I need to find a girl like that :(
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[21:53:07] <HeTo> mounted haiku.image from Build Factory under BeOS Max live cd and copied the files from there
[21:53:07] <Technix> she's my peach
[21:53:10] <helf> I can't seem to find a chic that i don't get bored with after 5 minutes
[21:53:38] <helf> I've stopped even trying.. :(
[21:53:57] <Technix> its when you stop looking that something comes along
[21:54:03] <helf> hopefully :P
[21:54:04] <HeTo> then ran /Haiku_src/beos/bin/makebootable /Haiku
[21:54:05] <helf> that was my theory
[21:54:23] <koki_haiku> HeTo, that should do it.
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[21:54:45] <koki_haiku> looks like Tracker and the Deskbar are not starting for you HeTo
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[21:55:11] <Technix> if you still have the Installer loaded, you should be able to hit ctrl-alt-shift-T iirc?
[21:55:15] <JonathanThompson> helf, chances are the more interesting women you seek haven't been sufficiently experienced in real life yet to be interesting.
[21:55:16] <Technix> for a Terminal
[21:55:26] <pyCube> helf:  i heard that alabama is THE place to meet interesting, intelligent females
[21:55:30] * JonathanThompson notes Technix is terminal
[21:55:31] <koki_haiku> HeTo, do you get a blue desktop with a mouse pointer?
[21:55:38] <Technix> hehe
[21:56:03] * helf smells sarcasm from pyCube
[21:56:06] <helf> :P
[21:56:07] <helf> ass
[21:56:11] <helf> JonathanThompson, yea,h exactly.
[21:56:13] * JonathanThompson knows pyCube isn't remotely sarcastic
[21:56:14] <Technix> ah, procton you have to register first
[21:56:15] <HeTo> I do have the mouse pointer, although it flickers whenever I move it
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[21:56:17] <helf> they all turn out to be shallow airheads
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[21:56:26] <procton> Technix: :D
[21:56:30] <helf> apparently "being dumb" is in
[21:56:34] <Technix> procton: perhaps I am not registered?
[21:56:35] <JonathanThompson> Getting outside of high school tends to sort the wheat from the chaff.
[21:56:35] <Technix> sec
[21:56:47] <pyCube> sarcasm? sounds like a place one mught go spelunking
[21:56:48] <JonathanThompson> That is, getting out of high school, and having to support one's self.
[21:56:58] <helf> i sorta have to support myself ;D
[21:57:01] <procton> Technix: I am always registered.
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[21:57:07] <JonathanThompson> Or where people with fatal respiratory viruses go to die in a big pit ;P
[21:57:12] <pyCube> although i suppose that'd be sarchasm
[21:57:18] <pyCube> ..but still
[21:57:19] <helf> heh
[21:57:50] <Technix> it was me
[21:58:07] <HeTo> yeah, I have the desktop, deskbar and the terminal, and I can see Tracker listed in the Deskbar, but I don't have any desktop icons
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[21:58:26] <HeTo> also launching something like the about box takes something like half a minute
[21:58:36] <HeTo> it also took about four minutes to load the desktop background
[21:58:38] <Technix> dma/ide issue?
[21:59:21] <HeTo> unless Haiku PIO really sucks, I don't think it should be that
[21:59:43] <koki_haiku> HeTo, what hardware are you running this on?
[21:59:57] <HeTo> everything goes fine until about the moment the Terminal and Deskbar appear on the screen, from there on, everything nearly stops
[22:00:03] <HeTo> IBM Thinkpad A30
[22:00:10] <koki_haiku> RAM?
[22:00:21] <HeTo> PIII-M 1 GHz, Radeon Mobility, 256M RAM
[22:01:10] <koki_haiku>
[22:01:21] <koki_haiku>
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[22:02:27] <Begasus> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D20yCEDye2Q
[22:02:30] <Begasus> nice one ;)
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[22:03:19] <koki_haiku> re
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[22:04:45] <koki_haiku> HeTo, I am using rev 24959 on my laptop w/o problems
[22:04:54] <koki_haiku> you may want to try another rev
[22:04:55] <Technix> gotta jet peopls... ttyl
[22:05:05] <HeTo> same rev here
[22:05:13] <Begasus> hi koki_haiku ;)
[22:05:18] <koki_haiku> hey Begasus
[22:05:18] <Begasus> cya Technix !
[22:05:19] <HeTo> at least as reported by uname -a
[22:05:33] <koki_haiku> HeTo, then I have no clue :)
[22:06:05] <HeTo> time ls in home directory shows 3.818s real, 0.049s user, 0.919s sys
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[22:06:40] <koki_haiku> hmmm...
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[22:17:01] <maple> could the gui/api be ported to another kernel or are they tied to the kernel too closeley?
[22:18:46] <{V}> maple, i've no idea, but I'll take a guess: yes, it can be done, depending on how much time you want to invest in the porting effort ;)
[22:19:02] <HeTo> it might have something to do with hd access performance being really poor, since it seems everything that requires hd access runs even more slowly
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[22:19:45] <HeTo> like opening the deskbar menu for the first time takes maybe a minute to render all the items, after that maybe something like 5-10 secs
[22:19:49] <Barrett666> How many lines of source code has haiku?
[22:20:07] <pyCube> 1
[22:20:20] <pyCube> but its super long
[22:20:51] <tradewind> lol
[22:22:11] <Barrett666> lol
[22:23:20] <pyCube> did that change your opinion of haiku?
[22:25:04] <DeadYak> bbl
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[22:25:40] <koki_haiku> oops! KDL
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[22:33:00] <{V}> maple, there are/have been several attempts to port/reimplement the api on another kernel
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[22:43:56] <mmu_man> damn activitymonitor uses the layout stuff, can't be built on R5
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[22:54:07] <HeTo> I just so love it how BeOS Max doesn't include by default the workaround to the filesystem buffer overflow
[22:55:01] <HeTo> browse the files on the haiku image a little bit, then start copying them, and experience PANIC: ** error cache can't allocate memory
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[23:10:15] <Begasus> g'night peeps
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[23:13:34] <pyCube> mm.. soup
[23:13:48] * pyCube eats some artichoke heart bisque
[23:16:00] * DeadYak read biscuit at first
[23:16:11] <DeadYak> that would be..interesting
[23:18:10] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24974 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/usergroup.cpp:
[23:18:10] <CIA-34> Some setre{g,u}id() tweaking. What happens to the saved set-{g,u}id is
[23:18:10] <CIA-34> not specified by the standard, but other systems set it as well in most
[23:18:10] <CIA-34> cases. We set it to real {g,u}uid now, if that changes. OpenSSH (sshd)
[23:18:10] <CIA-34> seems to be agreeable with that solution.
[23:19:42] <pyCube> hmm.. artichoke biscuit
[23:19:48] <pyCube> that would be interesting
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[23:20:23] <HeTo> safe mode seems to run fine, also the mouse pointer moves smoothly until the certain point soon after the terminal and deskbar have appeared
[23:21:37] <HeTo> I tried with r24921 earlier today, and it had the same problem, although I'd say it wasn't as bad as with r24959 as I even got the desktop in maybe 10 minutes or so
[23:21:47] <CIA-34> bonefish * r24975 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/unix/UnixFifo.cpp:
[23:21:47] <CIA-34> We weren't tracking the buffer size in one case, which was rewarded with
[23:21:47] <CIA-34> a segment violation due to NULL pointer access.
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[23:24:57] <maple> {V}: is there a list of those projects anywhere or could you point me in a direction?
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[23:27:48] <{V}> blueEyedOS based on linux, cosmoe based on Atheos, ther was another one based on linux, of which I forgot the name (i think it underwent a namechange at some point)
[23:29:14] <{V}> atheos and syllable have a similar API as BeOS (and Haiku)
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[23:38:11] <{V}> maple, err. I made an error cosmoe is also based on linux
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[23:42:52] <Hugen_> hi all
[23:43:14] <{V}> 'lo Hugen_
[23:43:50] <urnenfeld> Hmm its ok call the a child Blooper's Run() inside its own constructor?
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[23:48:25] <aljen> hey
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[23:50:56] <Hugen_> hi aljen
[23:52:01] <pyCube> i watched my children run after chickens on sunday.. talk about bloopers
[23:53:47] <Stargater> re
[23:55:23] <Stargater> hi aljen
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   April 15, 2008  
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