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[00:15:23] <umccullough> ebay feedback in foreign languages - fun :)
[00:15:39] <umccullough> appears to be german even though we sent the item to switzerland
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[00:18:42] <oco> one part of switzerland speak german !
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[00:19:36] <paul0> hi there
[00:19:44] <paul0> someone is already using haiku natively?
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[00:20:27] <mmu_man> not yet
[00:20:36] <umccullough> well, i use it natively :)
[00:20:49] <umccullough> just not as a daily OS
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[00:20:54] <paul0> hum
[00:21:10] <oco> i am currently under Haiku too
[00:21:18] <paul0> its too unstable?
[00:21:21] <umccullough> yes
[00:21:30] <umccullough> and simply unfinished
[00:21:36] <slaad> Heh
[00:21:44] <paul0> :)
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[00:22:08] <paul0> i've tried an haiku image, amazing
[00:22:52] <oco> 7 h of uptime here... but yes, unfinished
[00:22:55] <slaad> It is very impressive. But still not there.
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[00:32:09] * leavengood thinks we need a standard way to have startup items
[00:32:19] <leavengood> I'm thinking ~/config/startup
[00:32:25] <leavengood> with symlinks
[00:32:48] <leavengood> for example if you want Workspaces and Launchpad at each startup
[00:33:47] <leavengood> LaunchBox rather
[00:33:54] <leavengood> anyhow, I may hack that in
[00:34:05] <leavengood> for now, food and a movie
[00:34:06] <leavengood> BBL
[00:35:28] <emitrax> not a bad idea
[00:36:39] <geist> well finally got up and heading to sf
[00:36:55] <geist> probably wont stop by linux thing today
[00:37:07] <geist> since its almost over with
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[00:42:52] * mmadia thinks there should be a seperate Workspaces preflet.
[00:43:08] <umccullough> geist, they're doing a dinner or something tonight: Sat 12th April - 8.30pm - Jillian's, 101 4th Street, Ste 1070 San Francisco, CA 94103
[00:43:27] <umccullough> ooh, google's picking up teh bar tab!
[00:43:59] <umccullough> http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=1176
[00:44:04] <umccullough> wonder if it's open to all...doubt it
[00:44:09] <umccullough> probably only registrants
[00:44:18] <mmadia> the preflet could control  # of workspaces,  default orientation [ rectangular, horizontal, vertical ] ,  and some basic look and feel options.
[00:44:37] * JonathanThompson has a joke
[00:44:49] <JonathanThompson> What do you get if you cross a comedian and a boxer?
[00:45:33] * umccullough groans prematurely
[00:45:52] <JonathanThompson> Someone that you need to duck, bob and weave when they deliver the punch line ;)
[00:49:16] <umccullough> mmadia, i'm not sure why it needs its own - it's already an app right? - can't you just configure it from itself?
[00:49:37] <{V}> JonathanThompson, nice :)
[00:50:02] <JonathanThompson> The random thoughts that go through my mind when I'm trying to distract myself from work that's behind schedule ;)
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[00:51:19] <mmadia> umccullough  , well... the default orientation options don't exist yet : )
[00:51:54] <umccullough> i understand you want configurability - but i don't see why you can't launch it, configure it, and save the settings for next time
[00:51:57] <mmadia> and i 'm not sure if the look and feel options can be carried over from previous sessions --- aside from the replicant feature.
[00:52:29] <umccullough> why would it need a preflet for that behavior?
[00:52:58] <mmadia> why do we need a preflet to modify the behavior of scroll bars?
[00:53:04] <mmadia> (as an example)
[00:53:13] <umccullough> because you can't right click on a scroll bar and change its setting
[00:53:17] <umccullough> yet
[00:53:37] <umccullough> in other words - why not just take every app on the system and make a preflet for setting it's settings
[00:53:43] <umccullough> that would be ridiculous :)
[00:53:55] <mmadia> should we be able to?   should we be able to right click workspaces for preferences?
[00:54:02] <umccullough> workspaces isn't a widget - it's an application
[00:54:15] <umccullough> it's not part of the app_server...
[00:54:21] <umccullough> it's not part of the interface kit
[00:54:30] <mmadia> ok... then why can't you select the number of workspaces from the Workspaces application?  : P
[00:54:40] <umccullough> can't you? - i thought you could...
[00:54:46] <mmadia> last i checked, no.
[00:54:57] <umccullough> huh... seems like it's lacking in functionality :)
[00:55:06] <umccullough> so, where do you currently set that?
[00:55:14] <mmadia> Screen Preflet.
[00:55:20] <umccullough> ah right...
[00:55:37] <umccullough> because the virtual screens themselves *are* part of the app_server
[00:55:41] <mmadia> which is why i want it as a seperate preflet : )
[00:55:42] <umccullough> you're correct :)
[00:56:19] <umccullough> but the workspaces application is just an application - so anything affecting how it behaves should be specific to it I would think, no need for a separate app to configur eit
[00:56:41] <mmadia> ok, i see that.
[00:56:50] <umccullough> you'll have to excuse my ignorance, i actually don't use it
[00:57:01] <umccullough> i just switch workspaces with the alt-fkeys
[00:57:19] <mmadia> it's useful for dragging apps to the current workspace.
[00:57:30] <umccullough> yeah, i know
[00:57:44] <umccullough> something that linux allows you to do by "sending" an app to another workspace :/
[00:58:08] <geist> which for some reason doesnt work reliably on my ubuntu boz
[00:58:24] <umccullough> lame
[00:58:35] <umccullough> i've been using xfce here
[00:58:48] <geist> sometimes sends it to the wrong desktop
[00:58:59] <umccullough> "dude, i lost my window"
[00:59:31] <Thom_Holwerda> try crashing compiz, bye-bye virtual desktops, all windows get dropped to the same workspace
[00:59:38] <Thom_Holwerda> and seeing compiz's crappines
[00:59:42] <Thom_Holwerda> +s
[00:59:46] <Thom_Holwerda> that happens a lot.
[00:59:49] <{V}> umccullough, don't you mean "dude, where's my window" :p
[00:59:50] <geist> least it dooesnt lose em
[01:00:07] <umccullough> {V}, actually, i wasn't even thinking of that movie at all ;)
[01:00:54] <umccullough> well, Haiku could certainly benefit from some additional workspace functionality
[01:00:57] <{V}> of which movie were you thinking then? :p
[01:01:03] <geist> i do have to say im happy with leopard spaces with the new leopard
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[01:01:09] <umccullough> {V}, i wasn't :P
[01:01:21] <geist> they fixed my previoous problem by adding a new soft switch
[01:01:24] <umccullough> as opposed to the old leopard?
[01:01:35] <geist> to disable the autowarping when switching apps
[01:01:36] <umccullough> i remember you complaining about those
[01:01:46] <geist> 10 5 2
[01:01:55] <geist> didnt want to typit
[01:02:09] <geist> kind of a pain on this treo
[01:02:14] <umccullough> oh
[01:02:41] <umccullough> that explains the lack of punctuation ;)
[01:06:27] <geist> yah
[01:07:32] <JonathanThompson> who needs punctuation it just gets in the way when you want to type quickly and get your point across like this as now where no contractions are being used and such
[01:07:33] <JonathanThompson> :)
[01:08:12] <geist> next tjing you kniw youre ysing u a r a 4 and all that crap
[01:08:32] <JonathanThompson> I'm not likely to do that, personally.
[01:08:53] <umccullough> wut r u tlkn bout?
[01:08:55] <geist> good
[01:09:11] <geist> though typing on this i gyess i can see why the kids do it
[01:09:14] <slaad> u r not kewliez enuff 2 tiep liek me!
[01:09:31] <geist> lolz
[01:09:35] * JonathanThompson sends slaad through a spellchecker and gets salad
[01:09:45] <slaad> Even when I SMS I use punctiation and, you know, English.
[01:09:56] <slaad> You can't correct me! I'm perfect!
[01:10:07] <JonathanThompson> But, we can defect you ;)
[01:10:20] <slaad> Help, help! I'm being oppressed.
[01:10:25] <geist> i keeel you
[01:10:31] <geist> i keeel you real bad
[01:10:32] * JonathanThompson gets out the wet SCSI cable
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[01:10:46] <geist> make
[01:10:59] <geist> make sure you probe all his luns
[01:11:03] <slaad> >.<
[01:11:08] <umccullough> ouch
[01:11:18] * JonathanThompson hopes no luns are hidden under where he doesn't want to probe
[01:11:22] * slaad whips up a shell script to tell him when to flush water through his espresso machine
[01:11:32] <slaad> Probe me real good, JT!
[01:11:41] * JonathanThompson gets a doctor on the cheap
[01:11:57] <JonathanThompson> I'll make sure it's done correctly, and my hands won't be involved, slaad!
[01:12:06] <{V}> ugh.. get a room
[01:12:22] * JonathanThompson just realized how that could be taken :(
[01:12:32] <umccullough> heh
[01:12:33] <geist> me goes on and electric third rail power trip
[01:12:38] <JonathanThompson> A doctor's hands will be involved ;)
[01:12:57] <umccullough> a threesome?
[01:13:08] <JonathanThompson> I won't be touching anyone ;)
[01:13:16] <Thom_Holwerda> guys, guys
[01:13:28] <slaad> You might be wearing gloves, but you'd still be touching...
[01:13:34] <Thom_Holwerda> it's night here, i dont want to get nightmares
[01:13:37] <geist> thom wants to go undercover
[01:13:43] <JonathanThompson> HA HA HA
[01:13:50] <umccullough> i was just thinking Thom_Holwerda wanted a piece of the action...
[01:13:51] * mmu_man cattle prods Thom_Holwerda
[01:13:59] <mmu_man> you ain't go anywhere :
[01:14:00] <mmu_man> :p
[01:14:42] <umccullough> this channel tends to degrade ungracefully
[01:14:54] <JonathanThompson> Bad signal-to-nice ratio?
[01:15:01] <mmu_man> anyone know a good supply for replacement laptop keyboards ? mine already lost the up arrow key and 'p' is getting bad
[01:15:11] <geist> poop
[01:15:20] * JonathanThompson doesn't want to know what mmu_man does to his laptops to have that happen
[01:15:23] <geist> is one of the things you cant type
[01:15:52] <mmu_man> JonathanThompson I can use the athlon tower for that anyway
[01:16:20] <JonathanThompson> Not sure how to interpret that ;)
[01:17:11] <umccullough> mmu_man, ebay
[01:17:15] <slaad> >.<
[01:17:47] <mmu_man> excet you're not sure they are new on ebay ...
[01:17:52] <mmu_man> grr
[01:17:55] <umccullough> new isn't a requirement ;)
[01:17:59] <umccullough> working is :D
[01:18:10] <geist> pewp
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[01:18:40] <umccullough> i just swapped the keyboard on one of my laptops with a spare out of a busted laptop
[01:18:44] <koki_haiku> greetings
[01:18:47] <umccullough> it was nearly-new
[01:18:53] <umccullough> koki_haiku, how did things go?
[01:18:57] <geist> lift and jack here
[01:19:07] <koki_haiku> umccullough, still going :)
[01:19:15] <geist> this car exceeds height
[01:19:15] <umccullough> almost done?
[01:19:49] <umccullough> koki_haiku, talk to anyone exciting?
[01:20:15] <geist> koki' gonna come by tomorrow instead
[01:20:28] <geist> thats when my buddies are talkin anyway
[01:20:32] <koki_haiku> umccullough, the girl at the booth next to ours is hot :P
[01:20:40] <koki_haiku> geist, cool
[01:20:41] <umccullough> koki_haiku, you're married ;)
[01:20:47] <koki_haiku> am I?
[01:20:50] <umccullough> heh
[01:20:53] <umccullough> i thought
[01:20:58] <koki_haiku> maybe
[01:21:03] <geist> im nearby in sf but got something else going on
[01:21:05] <koki_haiku> I forget
[01:21:15] <koki_haiku> geist, that's ok :)
[01:21:18] <umccullough> koki_haiku, what booth is she at?
[01:21:31] <{V}> koki_haiku, check if you are, before you do anything
[01:21:38] <koki_haiku> linux pro magazine
[01:21:41] <umccullough> ah
[01:22:15] <umccullough> koki_haiku, lot of traffic at the haiku booth?
[01:22:26] <mmu_man> funny, ebay.fr has (french) items for asus *qwerty* keyboards :)
[01:22:45] <koki_haiku> umccullough, not as many people as I thought there would be (in general)
[01:22:52] <umccullough> i see
[01:23:08] <geist> how bug relative to scale?
[01:23:40] <umccullough> bbiab
[01:23:42] <koki_haiku> geist, scale has more traffic
[01:23:52] <geist> ah
[01:24:12] <geist> well if you can get into the big linuxworld thing coming up...
[01:26:24] <geist> mmm tunnel
[01:26:38] <geist> wow actually working in hetre
[01:26:48] <geist> they nust have installed booosters
[01:27:12] <mmu_man> grafiti is buggy :p
[01:27:17] <geist> welcome to the modren world
[01:27:35] <geist> no graffitti on this. its an old shitty treo
[01:28:24] <koki_haiku> geist, not holding my breath on LW
[01:28:40] <geist> yeah?
[01:28:50] <geist> cant convince em haiku is linux?
[01:29:05] <mmu_man> lol
[01:29:44] <koki_haiku> hehe
[01:30:40] <slaad> "Dude! It runs bash, what more do you want?"
[01:30:49] <slaad> I think our problem is we don't use a recursive acronym...
[01:30:58] <koki_haiku> LW is too business oriented, so it's unlikely that they will accept our application
[01:31:06] <slaad> Haiku Aint Intelligent Kool User.
[01:31:09] <koki_haiku> I may be wrong though
[01:31:12] <slaad> There we go. Linux certified!
[01:31:23] <geist> ah yeah
[01:31:37] <geist> this thing sounds like some freeas google thing
[01:32:42] <DaaT> slaad!
[01:32:51] <geist> okay train comung to a stop
[01:32:57] <geist> see ya folks
[01:33:04] <geist> see ya tomoorrow koki
[01:33:18] <koki_haiku> bye geist
[01:34:00] <slaad> DaaT.
[01:34:46] <DaaT> how goes it?
[01:34:51] <Technix>  whoa
[01:35:08] <Technix> we were just saying a few days ago, all we need is DaaT to show up :P
[01:36:29] <slaad> Good, good.
[01:36:36] <DaaT> :)
[01:36:46] <DaaT> careful with what you wish fotr
[01:36:48] <DaaT> for*
[01:36:49] <Technix> how are you, DaaT ?
[01:36:54] <DaaT> good thanks
[01:36:55] <DaaT> you?
[01:37:00] <Technix> I'm doing good too
[01:37:06] <Technix> I'm back in Canada, btw
[01:37:55] <koki_haiku> do we use ELF as the binary format?
[01:38:00] <DaaT> cool
[01:38:12] <mmu_man> koki_haiku yes
[01:38:25] <koki_haiku> DaaT!!!
[01:38:36] <koki_haiku> mmu_man, thanks
[01:41:33] * Technix expects to see a full coverage 5 page story plastering ICO anytime soon about the return of Haiku News. :P
[01:42:20] <DHowett> ICO? ... like, the format? Or did I miss something.
[01:42:39] <DaaT> koki_haiku :)
[01:42:45] <Technix> IsComputerOn, I'm just teasing DaaT
[01:42:55] <DaaT> :)
[01:43:07] <Technix> ltns man, I heard you got married?
[01:44:10] <slaad> ... Really?!?
[01:45:09] <Technix> whoa, spooky.. searching on Facebook for Daniel Teixeira shows as the first hit: someone in Edmonton, Alberta.
[01:45:13] <Technix> wtf
[01:45:14] <Technix> that's weir
[01:45:15] <Technix> weird
[01:46:45] <koki_haiku> hey DaaT
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[01:55:16] <umccullough> even if LinuxWorld doesn't happen, I'll still go to LinuxPicnic :)
[02:00:51] <koki_haiku> umccullough, the geek couple from the picnic are here (at the kde booth)
[02:01:01] <umccullough> lol
[02:01:10] <koki_haiku> no kidding :)
[02:01:12] <umccullough> the guy with the dress?
[02:01:19] <umccullough> that's awesome
[02:01:46] <umccullough> you should point him to the faltercon video if he hasn't seen it ;)
[02:01:47] <koki_haiku> I run the faltercon video full screen for them
[02:01:53] <umccullough> :D
[02:03:31] <umccullough> mike would be proud ;)
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[02:05:08] <umccullough> we should find someone to run around with the camera again and "narrate"...that was kinda fun
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[02:15:09] <koki_haiku> umccullough, we should fly michael s for the camera work :P
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[02:20:14] <umccullough> koki_haiku, only if he learns how to hold it steady first ;)
[02:21:03] <umccullough> damn, berlios still down...what a PITA
[02:21:06] <Schmedly3D> hey umccullough
[02:21:11] <umccullough> hi Schmedly3D
[02:21:20] <Schmedly3D> what's going on around here tonight
[02:21:38] <umccullough> i think everyone's waiting for berlios to come back to life ;)
[02:21:45] <Schmedly3D> ugh yeah I tried earlier
[02:21:47] <umccullough> koki_haiku is at LUGRadio Live
[02:21:56] <Schmedly3D> ooooh nice
[02:22:09] <Technix> koki_haiku: have you written much yet about the event?
[02:22:22] <Schmedly3D> I have a cousin living in SF maybe I should schedule a visit around a Haiku event :)
[02:22:51] <umccullough> Schmedly3D, definitely ;) - August would be a good time
[02:23:23] <umccullough> if the LinuxWOrld thing happens, I think Ryan Leavengood and Bryan Varner might fly in
[02:24:01] <Schmedly3D> I will probably be out for the next GDC anyway if not this year
[02:24:09] <umccullough> oops, gotta go outside for a bit
[02:24:28] <mmadia> are haiku's optional packages,  eg vision and firefox hosted at haiku-os or linked to their original locations?
[02:26:36] <DHowett> original locations.
[02:26:47] <DHowett> vision.sf.net, sheltonfamily.org, revolf.free.fr, etc.
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[02:27:27] <mmadia> thanks.
[02:30:45] <mmu_man> koki_haiku you don't happen to have a quickcam around ?
[02:30:57] <mmu_man> I could have a try at getting those supported
[02:31:38] <DHowett> I haven't heard that name in years. I've one of the old eyeball-shaped parallel port ones at home :P
[02:32:19] <mmu_man> that'd only be for usb, sorry :p
[02:32:23] <DHowett> hehe
[02:32:38] <mmu_man> don't we have a // port quickcam driver ?
[02:32:45] <mmu_man> or maybe only CPIA
[02:33:19] <slaad> Looking for something to do, mmu_man?
[02:33:37] <mmu_man> for something doable
[02:33:38] <mmu_man> :
[02:33:42] <mmu_man> :p
[02:33:47] <slaad> I have something...
[02:33:50] <koki_haiku> mmu_man, I did not bring a webcam. why?
[02:33:58] <mmu_man> ok, just in case
[02:34:23] <slaad> You can put support setting the alternate interface in libusb now that mmlr has added it to the raw driver.
[02:34:23] <slaad> :)
[02:34:40] <mmu_man> I should really go to sleep anyway
[02:34:43] <slaad> Wow... I fail English. "You can add support for setting the alternate interface in libusb..." that was.
[02:34:50] <slaad> What? It's only 10:38am!
[02:34:53] * slaad cracks the whip.
[02:34:56] <mmu_man> 2:30
[02:35:31] <slaad> 10:38 here :P
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[02:37:30] <ToxicSoul> http://rafb.net/p/cSgGWf11.html ... well I've gotten a little further =p
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[03:24:07] <umccullough> bah, no berlios stil
[03:24:08] <umccullough> still even
[03:24:14] <DeadYak> indeed
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[04:07:17] <Schmedly3D> How can I programmatically switch the desktop resolution in R5/Haiku?
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[04:10:52] <DeadYak> Schmedly3D: BScreen I believe
[04:11:09] <DeadYak> or BWindowScreen maybe, depends on what you want to do
[04:11:37] <Schmedly3D> BDirectWindow will toggle back and forth between windows and fullscreen
[04:12:29] <Schmedly3D> but it doesn't change the resolution :|
[04:13:22] <Schmedly3D> I thought there might be something similar to the Win32 ChangeDisplaySettings
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[04:17:24] <_Megaf> hi all, a suport for Realtek RTL8139D, Realtek RTL8029AS , ADMtek AN983B and Intel S82557 network cards need be implemented.
[04:17:45] <leavengood> Schmedly3D: BScreen, http://www.beunited.org/bebook/The%20Interface%20Kit/Screen.html
[04:18:10] <leavengood> SetMode
[04:18:34] <slaad> We'll get right on it, _Megaf!
[04:18:43] <slaad> (Note: I'm lying :)
[04:18:53] <_Megaf> :S
[04:19:10] <_Megaf> mainly the rtl8139
[04:19:12] <Schmedly3D> leavengood: thank you sir!
[04:19:30] <mmadia> slaad don't address the RTL8139D dev like that !  : P
[04:19:37] <Schmedly3D> and DeadYak too
[04:19:50] <slaad> Hehe
[04:20:08] <leavengood> _Megaf: at this point drivers get implemented when a developer has the need for them
[04:20:30] <_Megaf> hm
[04:20:34] <leavengood> though we might get some network drivers for "free" because we have a FreeBSD compatibility interface
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[04:30:57] <_Megaf> ok, the driver for via_rhine has a bug, the dhcp dont work
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[04:31:06] <_Megaf> have
[04:32:27] <DHowett> 'doesn't'?
[04:32:29] <DHowett> :)
[04:33:20] <_Megaf> yep
[04:33:31] <_Megaf> small vocabulary...
[04:33:36] <_Megaf> litle
[04:33:39] <_Megaf> dont know
[04:33:40] <_Megaf> lol
[04:33:45] <DHowett> Non-native? That's okay :)
[04:33:58] <_Megaf> :)
[04:34:27] <_Megaf> well, i understend you perfectly..
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[04:46:35] <ari-free> hi
[04:55:10] <DHowett> hey ari-free
[04:57:28] <DHowett> what'd you set ablaze this time?
[04:57:51] <ari-free> the world
[04:57:56] <ari-free> i was lazy
[05:05:34] <DHowett> awesome
[05:05:42] <DHowett> can't get up the effort to target a single thing, torch it all
[05:05:44] <DHowett> ;)
[05:06:48] <ari-free> what? no! i was too lazy to torch the entire universe. one planet is enough
[05:07:28] <DHowett> Or that ;) hehe
[05:12:38] <ari-free> hat is new in haiku world
[05:12:45] <ari-free> what is new in haiku world?
[05:12:58] <ari-free> the one world I am willing not to torch
[05:14:27] <slaad> I'm wearing a beanie!
[05:14:38] <slaad> (AKA: It's finally getting cold here \o/)
[05:15:03] <ari-free> finally getting warmer here :)
[05:16:31] <slaad> You don't like the cold?
[05:16:40] <ari-free> hate cold
[05:17:00] <umccullough> wait, haiku does have an rtl8139 driver already _Megaf
[05:18:03] <slaad> But... with cold you put clothes on and... tada! Comfortable.
[05:18:15] <slaad> With heat you can only shed so many layers before the court order comes into affect....
[05:18:20] <ari-free> but then you can't be a nudist
[05:18:44] <ari-free> not that it is a good idea to be a nudist for other reasons...
[05:18:49] <slaad> Heh
[05:19:05] <ari-free> with heat we have something called fans
[05:20:07] <umccullough> we also have something called air conditioning
[05:20:55] <ari-free> and ice in the freezer
[05:21:01] <umccullough> and swimming
[05:21:29] <ari-free> hard to swim if you're wearing a suit and tie
[05:21:36] <umccullough> bah
[05:21:57] <ari-free> advantage: nudist
[05:22:12] <umccullough> during the summer, i generally have to add clothes anyway cuz the office is always freezing :P
[05:22:19] <umccullough> i hate that
[05:22:46] <umccullough> berlios sucks
[05:23:06] <aroman> always so slow too :(
[05:23:12] <aroman> (in NA..)
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[05:28:10] <Schmedly3D> Hmm I think I might have found a bug
[05:29:07] <Schmedly3D> I can change the screen resolution with a BScreen in Haiku
[05:29:11] <Schmedly3D> but
[05:29:34] <Schmedly3D> using a BDirectWindow calling SetFullScreen returns B_OK and doesn't change the window
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[05:33:39] <ddew|bofh> hi everybody
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[05:45:04] <_Megaf> umccullough: not for me...
[05:45:20] <umccullough> what's the vendor/deviceid?
[05:47:51] <Megaf> i dont know..
[05:47:56] <umccullough> what OS are you using?
[05:48:26] <umccullough> if you're in Haiku, you can use listdev to get the info, if in linux, you can use lspci -nn
[05:48:48] <umccullough> in windows it's a little trickier - you gotta go look at the details of the device in the device manager
[05:49:00] <umccullough> and find the string with the ven/dev numbers
[05:49:02] <Megaf> here HaikuOS
[05:49:09] <_Megaf> here Linux
[05:49:55] <_Megaf> brb
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[05:52:57] <aroman> ok
[05:53:25] <aroman> time to reinstall linux on my desktop and get haiku running on real hardware!
[05:53:34] <umccullough> :)
[05:53:59] <umccullough> just a warning...
[05:54:02] <aroman> how much space should I reserve for a haiku partition?
[05:54:05] <umccullough> right now berlios is down
[05:54:08] <aroman> 5GB enough?
[05:54:10] <umccullough> yeah
[05:54:21] <aroman> umccullough: yeah, I know... but downloading fedora 9 beta now
[05:54:25] <aroman> by the time I install it and all that...
[05:54:26] <umccullough> 5gb would probably be enough to build haiku within itself even
[05:54:34] <aroman> HOPEFULLY, it will be up :P
[05:54:39] <umccullough> heh
[05:54:46] <aroman> hmm... maybe I should make it 8GB or so to make sure
[05:54:50] <umccullough> nah
[05:55:23] <aroman> :o downlading at 1.05MB/s!!!
[05:55:30] <umccullough> what I usually do is reserve a few 10gb primary partitions for whatever - then dump linux into the remainder of my disk as logical ext3 and swap partitions
[05:55:50] <aroman> interesting
[05:55:52] <umccullough> in fact, i'm putting BeOS R5 pro onto one of the 10gb partitions right now
[05:56:06] <aroman> I tried Zeta on this PC, but it didn't work
[05:56:09] <aroman> for some reason...
[05:56:15] <aroman> couldn't install the boot manager
[05:56:43] <aroman> so now I'm kinda pissed at it and putting linux on it... I know THAT works, and even if it doesn't I can get it to work heh
[05:57:25] <aroman> so what's the word on self-hosting?
[05:57:33] <aroman> does the latest trunk self-host?
[05:57:41] <umccullough> i use grub for my boot manager anyway
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[05:57:52] <umccullough> not quite yet, i don't think
[05:58:00] <_Megaf> "Ethernet controller" "Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd." "RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+" -r10 "Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd." "RT8139"
[05:58:03] <_Megaf> umccullough:
[05:58:14] <umccullough> _Megaf, what vendor/devid?
[05:58:37] <aroman> umccullough: how do you get Haiku/BeOS/etc in GRUB? like a Windows partition? rootnoverify(blah)?
[05:58:45] <umccullough> aroman, just chainload - yes
[05:58:54] <aroman> k
[05:58:55] <umccullough> just like windows :)
[05:59:07] <aroman> I hate how all corporations use windows :(
[05:59:11] <aroman> well most of them
[05:59:21] <umccullough> no comment
[05:59:28] <umccullough> :)
[05:59:42] <aroman> could be so much more productive on linux or any Unix...
[05:59:44] <umccullough> i write windows software for my day job - so... i kinda rely on that ;)
[05:59:45] <aroman> yeah
[05:59:45] <aroman> :P
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[06:00:09] <_Megaf> umccullough: 00:13.0 "0200" "10ec" "8139" -r10 "10ec" "8139"?
[06:00:13] <aroman> umccullough: didn't mean to offend :) sorry
[06:00:27] <_Megaf> lspci -mn = 00:13.0 "0200" "10ec" "8139" -r10 "10ec" "8139"
[06:02:21] <umccullough> aroman, you didn't
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[06:02:46] <umccullough> _Megaf, the driver is certainly in the Haiku repo, and definitely supports that device
[06:02:55] <umccullough> i'm not sure if it's currently in the default haiku image
[06:03:06] <umccullough> i *do* know the rtl8139 driver is buggy
[06:03:24] <umccullough> but it's a port from freebsd
[06:03:27] <_Megaf> the via_rhine driver is buggy!
[06:03:28] <umccullough> if_rl
[06:03:32] <umccullough> yeah...
[06:03:48] <umccullough> i don't remember if the via_rhine was re-ported from fbsd or not
[06:03:49] <_Megaf> you know?
[06:03:53] <umccullough> but many people have complained about it
[06:03:54] <_Megaf> hm
[06:04:17] <umccullough> i have a couple rtl8139 cards - but I haven't tested them in a while
[06:04:30] <umccullough> the drivers I use the most are ipro1000 and 3com
[06:04:37] <_Megaf> i have 3 rtl8139...
[06:04:57] <ddew|bofh> they're great cards to have around, for all OSes except haiku :)
[06:05:21] <umccullough> yeah, haiku doesn't like them too much ;)
[06:05:43] <umccullough> but I think it's mostly due to the instability of the OS still
[06:05:45] <ddew|bofh> dirt cheap too
[06:06:16] <umccullough> _Megaf, once you start haiku - you should be able to ls /dev/net and see the driver loaded there if it detected the card
[06:06:32] <umccullough> whether it works after that or not is a crap-shoot
[06:06:41] <umccullough> probably just crash the system a lot
[06:07:55] <_Megaf> umccullough: i see the via_rhine there, but not the rtl
[06:08:07] <umccullough> oh, both are on the same machine?
[06:08:16] <umccullough> I think Haiku has problems with multiple interfaces :/
[06:08:38] <_Megaf> hm
[06:08:39] <umccullough> but both drivers *should* load
[06:09:06] <umccullough> do me a favor - check to see if the driver exists in /boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/drivers/bin
[06:09:26] <_Megaf> ok
[06:09:34] <umccullough> it might not be part of the default image - and you would have to add it at build time
[06:09:48] <umccullough> ddew|bofh, was it on the image by default for you?
[06:11:28] <_Megaf> umccullough: rtl8129 is there
[06:11:42] <umccullough> hmm
[06:11:53] <umccullough> i wish berlios wasn't down :(
[06:12:10] <umccullough> let me fire up my laptop - my haiku test machine is busy installing beos
[06:12:35] <_Megaf> umccullough: how can i load the rtl8139 manualy?
[06:13:14] <_Megaf> something like modprobe?
[06:13:37] <umccullough> _Megaf, no, if its there it will load
[06:13:42] <umccullough> problem is, it's not there :)
[06:14:00] <umccullough> did you build and install the image from your linux install?
[06:14:30] <_Megaf> hm
[06:14:54] * umccullough does a double-take
[06:15:03] <umccullough> wait a sec - i see no rtl8129 - only the rtl8139
[06:15:08] <umccullough> where did you get that haiku install?
[06:15:15] <_Megaf> haiku.image.r24921.bz2
[06:15:23] <umccullough> from haiku-files.org?
[06:15:31] <_Megaf> yep
[06:15:32] <umccullough> weird
[06:15:37] <_Megaf> http://haiku-files.org/raw/
[06:15:41] <_Megaf> from here
[06:15:45] <umccullough> so, you dd'd it directly?
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[06:16:09] <_Megaf> dd if=haiku.image.r24921 of=/dev/hda
[06:16:11] <_Megaf> :)
[06:16:53] <_Megaf> well, i will try again
[06:16:54] <_Megaf> brb
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[06:17:55] * umccullough shrugs
[06:18:01] <umccullough> i dunno - i see no rtl8129
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[06:26:30] <_Megaf> umccullough: dont work
[06:26:52] <_Megaf> only the via_rhine is loaded
[06:28:46] <umccullough> not sure then - i always build my own images directly to the partition
[06:30:48] <_Megaf> brb
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[06:40:18] <umccullough> ugh, how do you exclude all .svn dirs when you tar the haiku source?
[06:41:41] <DHowett> I know I did this at one point, and can't even remember how
[06:42:01] <DHowett> you could find -type d -name '.svn' > file  and then --exclude-from=file
[06:42:15] <DHowett> or try your way; i really don't know about pattern exclusion with regard to directories :)
[06:43:01] <slaad> You can use "zip -r source.zip . -x *.svn"
[06:43:16] <DHowett> ew zip ;)
[06:43:29] <geist> the exclude thing in tar is pretty much what you nee
[06:43:31] <slaad> Quiet little man :P
[06:43:46] <DHowett> =[ hehe
[06:44:19] <umccullough> well, i also want it to exclude the "generated" folder - but i figure it's the same to do both
[06:44:36] <umccullough> funny, looks like newer tar has an --exclude-vcs that already excludes .svn automatically
[06:45:32] <DHowett> ... O_O!
[06:45:54] <DHowett> umccullough: Man, april fools' is over ;)
[06:47:03] <DHowett> Wow, nevermind that. I believe you now :P
[06:48:05] <DHowett> You could put a specially-named file in generated/ and --exclude-tag [filename]
[06:48:08] <DHowett> ;)
[06:49:35] <aroman> :@ stupid fedora 9 beta won't even install :(
[06:49:45] <aroman> what distro do people use most nowadays?
[06:50:04] <DHowett> *coughs* gentoo.
[06:50:15] <geist> oh neet
[06:50:18] <aroman> something that I can finish installing tonight :P
[06:50:36] <geist> aroman: if you want easy, just isntall ubuntu
[06:50:37] <aroman> DHowett: used to use gentoo back in the day :P
[06:50:39] <DHowett> oh. Gentoo with binary packages to bootstrap a working desktop ;)
[06:50:40] <DHowett> awesome
[06:50:57] <geist> you'll need to install some more packages on top of it to get a full dev environment
[06:50:58] <aroman> geist: I don't care easy/hard... I'm just curious what people use most esp. for haiku development
[06:51:19] <DeadYak> aroman: for Haiku development I just use Ubuntu here
[06:51:21] <geist> most of my headless linux boxes are gentoo
[06:51:28] <DeadYak> until Haiku's stable enough to use it day to day for development
[06:51:33] <geist> the ones I work on interactively are ubuntu
[06:51:43] <DeadYak> yeah, we're mostly gentoo at work
[06:51:44] <aroman> DeadYak: can't wait for that day! :)
[06:51:55] <DeadYak> getting there, just some mem management issues mostly
[06:51:56] <aroman> hmm
[06:52:16] <aroman> to be honest... I haven't used gentoo in a while... I'm gonna try to install it :P
[06:52:26] <DHowett> geist: I tried Ubuntu Server edition for a headless server. I couldn't stand the administration side of it ><
[06:55:01] <umccullough> aroman, bit late for me to respond, but i've been using xubuntu mostly :)
[06:55:29] <umccullough> and i've been mostly using the alternate (text) installer cuz the livecd installer sucks
[06:55:44] <aroman> umccullough: I second that :P
[06:56:00] <DHowett> [third]
[06:56:09] <aroman> I tried the gui installer a year ago or so... I ran away screaming lol and downloaded the alt cd
[06:56:31] <umccullough> apparently they've made some major improvements to it recently...(for hardy I guess) - but I haven't tried it yet
[06:56:32] <aroman> I just don't want to reinstall or upgrade in like 3 weeks when the new versions come out (both fedora and ubundu)
[06:56:33] <aroman> :(
[06:56:39] <aroman> bah
[06:56:57] <aroman> I'll just get latest stable ubuntu CD since fedora 8 doesn't have CDs, only DVDs...
[06:57:01] <DeadYak> holy crap, Andre lives
[06:57:06] <aroman> and gentoo takes too long to install
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[06:59:16] <DeadYak> aroman: lol
[06:59:31] <DeadYak> aroman: I remember a friend of mine decided to try it when it first came out
[06:59:39] <DeadYak> aroman: he spent like 4 days doing nothing but compiling :)
[07:00:23] <umccullough> gentoo?
[07:00:28] <aroman> DeadYak: I used to use gentoo until a few years back when I had a report to write and didn't have openoffice installed... 2 days later openoffice was still compiling :P
[07:00:33] <geist> i used to be into that a lot, but it's gotten a little old nowadays
[07:00:35] <umccullough> yeah... i tried to install that on my PIII over IDSL once
[07:00:47] <geist> but i do like the resultant system
[07:01:02] <DeadYak> geist: well, I mean like, when it first came out 6 years ago or whenever :)
[07:01:05] <DHowett> aroman: we've always had app-office/openoffice-bin ... ;)
[07:01:08] <DeadYak> compiling from stage 1 on the systems of the time = ow.
[07:01:24] <aroman> DHowett: but I wanted the latest one for athlon-xp and that version was old :P
[07:01:37] <DHowett> ah the gentoo plague. I know it all too well. :)
[07:01:42] <DeadYak> geist: I do very much like how portage works
[07:01:47] <DeadYak> I just wish it didn't take so long to build everything
[07:01:54] <DeadYak> but the amount of control you get is just incredible
[07:01:59] <geist> clearly you need faster puters
[07:02:01] <umccullough> increible!
[07:02:10] <DHowett> I was once considering seeing how far I'd get in ubuntu+portage... but it'd defeat the purpose of both distributions ;)
[07:02:26] <DHowett> "in" as in "in creating"
[07:02:28] <geist> it's warm here
[07:02:32] <aroman> I definitely liked Gentoo the most, great community too! But... I eventually switched to other distros because I was spending a lot of time updating...
[07:02:33] <umccullough> geist, seriously?
[07:02:35] <geist> I have fan on
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[07:02:38] <geist> but it's still warm
[07:02:39] <umccullough> no breeze?
[07:02:49] <aroman> geist: where are you located?
[07:02:50] <geist> i use fan to make artificial breeze
[07:02:54] <DHowett> geist: it's the gentoo boxen
[07:03:06] <geist> kind of. I left the house sealed up all day
[07:03:07] <DeadYak> and on a completely random note: http://englishrussia.com/?p=1830#more-1830 - this is freaky
[07:03:14] <geist> gotta get rid of the excess heat
[07:03:34] <DHowett> The community is the only downside to gentoo in my eyes. freenode:#gentoo is.. isn't that great :)
[07:03:50] <DHowett> DeadYak: .. that is AWESOME.
[07:03:51] <DeadYak> DHowett: I've honestly never really bothered going in there :)
[07:03:56] <umccullough> "
[07:04:04] <umccullough> the door to hell"
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[07:04:18] <aroman> DeadYak: NICE :D
[07:04:24] <DeadYak> hi Kokito
[07:04:29] <DeadYak> you were looking for me earlier?
[07:04:32] <DeadYak> aroman: crazy isn't it?
[07:04:37] <DHowett> DeadYak: Best that you haven't
[07:04:41] <DHowett> hey Kokito
[07:04:42] <aroman> DeadYak: hell yes! :P
[07:04:49] <DeadYak> aroman: nice pun :P
[07:04:54] <aroman> ;)
[07:05:06] <pyCube> man.. i can completely irritate the crap out of my kids by pronouncing cartoon as cart-oon instead of car-toon..
[07:05:09] <Kokito> hey DHowett
[07:05:12] <pyCube> pisses them off.. hehe
[07:05:17] <DeadYak> pyCube: lol
[07:05:20] <DeadYak> pyCube: how old are they?
[07:05:27] <pyCube> 5, 7, and 12
[07:05:33] <DeadYak> ah
[07:05:37] <DeadYak> fun mix there
[07:05:40] <DHowett> pyCube: my mom used to get at me by pronouncing extensions for files in windows. Am i a geek? XD
[07:05:49] <aroman> 5+7 = 12 :P
[07:05:49] <pyCube> heh
[07:05:54] <aroman> nice ages :)
[07:06:24] <DeadYak> DHowett: how did she pronounce .png? :P
[07:06:32] <pyCube> ping
[07:06:48] <pyCube> thats what i say anyway
[07:06:48] <umccullough> pong
[07:06:49] <geist> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia%2C_Pennsylvania
[07:06:57] <geist> linked on the englishrussia thing
[07:07:07] <pyCube> i cant get myself to say p n g
[07:07:24] <DeadYak> pyCube: I do because I'm used to seeing it as an acronym
[07:07:29] <DeadYak> geist: damn
[07:07:49] <DHowett> DeadYak: No idea.. we knew exe, dll, bmp (god that one annoyed me), and those like
[07:08:14] <pyCube> the one that bothers me is when people say gif as like jiff
[07:08:18] <DHowett> geist: I'd love to go to centralia.. it's about an hour forty from where I live.. :D
[07:08:32] * aroman can't figure out what's wrong with his heap free implementation :(
[07:08:36] <umccullough> [Katisu] lives in PA :)
[07:08:59] <DeadYak> pyCube: mmm...peanut butter..
[07:09:03] <pyCube> hehe
[07:09:07] <DeadYak> umccullough: does he?
[07:09:12] <pyCube> dithered peanut butter
[07:09:18] <umccullough> DeadYak, he does
[07:10:02] <DeadYak> pyCube: haha
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[07:10:30] <breihan> that wikipedia article scares me
[07:10:48] <DeadYak> you too?
[07:10:59] * aroman is an idiot... figured it out
[07:11:01] <umccullough> Centralia?
[07:11:06] <breihan> yeah
[07:11:11] <umccullough> reminds me of the movie "nothing but trouble"
[07:11:41] <breihan> there are still a few people living there, which is crazy
[07:12:48] <pyCube> iiiiitt's....
[07:12:59] <DeadYak> enough coal to keep the fire going for 250 years? holy crap
[07:13:07] <DHowett> I thought it was awesome- the postal service -revoked- their zipcode. Best random thing in the world.
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[07:14:27] <_Megaf> umccullough: hi again, how to mount the Haiku disk image on Linux?
[07:14:47] <umccullough> _Megaf, i think you can't
[07:15:00] <umccullough> unless you use the haiku fs_shell
[07:15:36] <umccullough> anyhow, going to watch a movie
[07:15:39] <umccullough> ttyl
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[07:16:04] <aroman> w00t! my memory heap works!
[07:16:29] <DHowett> Iter faciamus! Anybody want to go to centralia? ;)
[07:16:38] <DHowett> Oh, if only I were rich. And not a college student.
[07:17:47] <[Katisu]> yeah, when I first saw the burning tire pit on The Simpsons, I thought of our burning coal mines
[07:18:16] <geist> [Katisu]: it's kind of famous up there?
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[07:19:56] <[Katisu]> I'm not sure "famous" would be the word to use, it's known about
[07:20:20] <DHowett> [Katisu]: Yeah.. i couldn't figure out the way to phrase that.
[07:20:25] <DHowett> [Katisu]: What part of PA?
[07:20:38] <geist> the part where they like to light coal mines on fire
[07:21:12] <DHowett> So an hour and forty minutes away from me ;) nah
[07:21:50] <[Katisu]> DHowett, Berks
[07:22:11] <umccullough> oh wait - that Centralia article actually did reference Nothing but Trouble!...funny
[07:22:30] <DHowett> [Katisu]: Ah, alright. I'm up in Bradford county.. middle of bloody nowhere :)
[07:22:48] <umccullough> "# The town is the inspiration for the 1991 cult film Nothing But Trouble, written by Dan Aykroyd."
[07:23:15] <umccullough> anyhow, movie...
[07:23:56] <geist> okay, anyone know about the lake in LA that emptied itself out?
[07:23:57] <MindChild> I got that movie for a dollar at a going-out-of-business video store
[07:24:03] <geist> i think it was in lousiana
[07:24:39] <DeadYak> geist: not offhand
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[07:25:55] <geist> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Peigneur
[07:27:42] <DeadYak> holy shit
[07:28:27] <DeadYak> geist: that's crazy
[07:29:08] <ari-free> whatever happened to blue eyed os?
[07:29:33] <DHowett> wow
[07:29:43] <DHowett> It went blind, ari-free
[07:29:44] <DHowett> :)
[07:29:56] <DeadYak> ari-free: abandoned
[07:30:16] <ari-free> they thought by using linux they'd be more successful
[07:30:29] * aroman was reminded the hard way that nothing's as reliable as wget -c... :(
[07:30:32] <geist> yeah, that's a famous weird ass manmade thing
[07:31:57] <DeadYak> aroman: what happened?
[07:32:25] <aroman> DeadYak: was downloading the kubuntu iso with safari and somehow the transfer stopped (at 130MB)....
[07:34:09] <pyCube> kubuntu with safari?
[07:34:34] <aroman> pyCube: on a Mac here
[07:34:44] <pyCube> ooohh.. i get it
[07:34:50] <pyCube> using safari to dl kubuntu
[07:35:07] <pyCube> i thought you meant kubuntu that had safari
[07:35:18] <pyCube> on a mac here too.. hehe
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[07:35:31] <aroman> haha :P unfortunately no... BUT... webkit would be nice to use in konqueror :)
[07:36:07] <pyCube> i want qt4.4 with its sweet webkitness
[07:37:47] <pyCube> well, pyqt actually..
[07:38:13] <DeadYak> wonder if konq's actually planning on integrating webkit or not, from what I've seen kde4's still using KHTML currently
[07:39:55] <pyCube> dunno.. i have never really liked konq  tbh
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[07:40:01] <pyCube> even when i was using kde mostly
[07:45:57] <pyCube> . i do like safari though
[07:46:27] <ari-free> i hate safari. it looks too much like a mac on windows
[07:46:41] <ari-free> i hate windows too don't worry
[07:47:52] <pyCube> i dunno if i would bother with safari in windows.. firefox works just fine
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[07:48:13] <ari-free> but there's no other webkit browser on windows
[07:48:42] <umccullough> are there really any other webkit browsers at all?
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[07:48:49] <pyCube> i dont really care about webkit or gecko or whatever
[07:49:05] <pyCube> if i dont go out of my way to learn about what the underlying engine is, i would never know the diff
[07:49:06] <ari-free> if ryan has his way, there will be one for haiku
[07:50:23] <ari-free> you may be ale to feel it though
[07:50:28] <ari-free> able
[07:50:38] <pyCube> i dunno.. i dont
[07:50:51] <ari-free> firefox starts up very slowly
[07:51:00] <umccullough> that's not the rendering engine's fault
[07:51:07] <pyCube> when i say "i like safari" or "i dont like konq", its all about little shit like being able to figure out the settings
[07:51:11] <umccullough> that's because the entire firefox GUI is "rendered"
[07:51:49] <pyCube> i couldnt tell you what makes webkit different than gecko..doesnt really matter to me
[07:52:22] <umccullough> I will start using webkit when it actually matters to me :)
[07:52:34] <ari-free> but there's no doubt gecko much more bloated than webkit with all the xpcom and xul to deal with
[07:52:41] <umccullough> just like all the opera guys screaming about how great their browser is...
[07:53:01] <pyCube> who cares
[07:53:08] <pyCube> 'bloat'
[07:53:11] <pyCube> whatever
[07:53:18] <ari-free> also gecko more compatible with crappy websites
[07:53:23] <pyCube> its features that somebody thinks are cool
[07:53:29] <ari-free> but there is a price for that
[07:53:49] <umccullough> xul has a purpose btw
[07:53:58] <pyCube> xul is nice
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[07:54:08] <umccullough> it's not just "bloat for the sake of bloat"
[07:54:11] <ari-free> you don't need xul to browse the web
[07:54:22] <_Megaf> uhuuuuuu
[07:54:23] <pyCube> you dont need mauch of anytign to browse the web
[07:54:24] <_Megaf> umccullough, im on Haiku
[07:54:27] <umccullough> but you do need xul to have a cross-platform browser that is the same on every OS :)
[07:54:27] <_Megaf> driver working
[07:54:43] <umccullough> _Megaf, what was wrong?
[07:54:58] <ari-free> ryan didn't need xul so he has no problem with webkit
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[07:55:04] <_Megaf> umccullough, now im using the ZETA via_rhine driver
[07:55:25] <pyCube> and yeah.. the price of all that bloat seems to be having a browser that nearly anybody on the planet can run
[07:55:28] <umccullough> ari-free, and his webkit browser will be nothing like safari, or any other webkit browser - thus it will be a whole different application
[07:55:51] <ari-free> yup but it would be more like any haiku app
[07:55:56] <umccullough> ari-free, for example xul allows firefox extension developers to write extensions that work in all versions of firefox on all platforms
[07:56:03] <umccullough> and they look the same everywhere
[07:56:14] <umccullough> it's an entirely different purpsoe
[07:56:19] <umccullough> just like java software
[07:56:28] <umccullough> just like flash
[07:57:01] <umccullough> just because you don't like it doesn't make it less useful
[07:57:06] <ari-free> yes that is a big advantage but extensions mess up the UI, make it hard for support, some break and not others
[07:57:19] <umccullough> whatever...different subject entirely - forget it
[07:57:41] <umccullough> i like that I can use firefox on windows and linux and Haiku and it's teh same browser
[07:57:47] <pyCube> think mostly, nerdy types look at things like top or whatever and get freaked out by ram usage numbers instead of actually using and enjoying apps.. hehe
[07:58:14] <pyCube> i think..
[07:58:22] <ari-free> firefox is a great app but webkit makes more sense for default web browsers such as konq or ephiphany
[07:58:33] <umccullough> ram usage doesn't bother me unless i need the ram for something
[07:58:36] <pyCube> ..becasue...?
[07:59:08] <ari-free> because it can fit in better with the UI
[07:59:21] <pyCube> webkit only makes sense NOW.. wait a year or so and some newer fancier thing will unseat webkit as the cool kid browser engine..
[07:59:28] <umccullough> just because Haiku comes with a "native" webkit-based browser doesn't mean I won't still install firefox and use it :)
[08:00:04] <umccullough> granted, if the haiku browser does what i need and expect, i'll probably use it most of the time...
[08:00:09] <ari-free> browser engines are extremely hard to build from scratch
[08:00:26] <aroman> finally... installing ubuntu
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[08:00:32] <aroman> berlios is still down?
[08:00:37] <umccullough> looks like it
[08:00:44] <aroman> sigh
[08:01:07] <umccullough> rather pathetic - probably be down all weekend until someone fixes it on monday
[08:01:18] <ari-free> what I'm trying to say is that most of the extra features that gecko brings doesn't serve the purpose of a native app. but web apps bringnew opportunities
[08:01:31] <ari-free> take gmail for example
[08:01:44] <umccullough> last i heard - gmail runs like crap in webkit
[08:02:02] <ari-free> many people used to use real apps for email before hotmail and gmail
[08:02:15] <pyCube> bloat!
[08:02:19] <umccullough> and btw, thunderbird is a great XUL-based email client :)
[08:02:26] <DeadYak> umccullough: ugh
[08:02:33] <pyCube> pssh.. putting an app on your HD? crazy! bloat!
[08:02:33] <DeadYak> umccullough: I've lost count of how many problems I've run into in thunderbird
[08:02:44] <DeadYak> whatever it is, "great" is not one of the things in the list
[08:02:44] <slaad> ORLY, DeadYak?
[08:02:45] <umccullough> well, at least it's the same client on every OS that supports it ;)
[08:02:48] <ari-free> but gmail is slower
[08:03:04] <slaad> I wish MDR kept track of IMAP mails properly.
[08:03:13] <umccullough> DeadYak, it's a great XUL-based email client - because it's pretty much the only one ;)
[08:03:32] <umccullough> and for the record - my wife has been using thunderbird now for years with no problems
[08:03:46] <DeadYak> umccullough: I see it blow up with large imap dirs all the time
[08:03:54] <umccullough> she only uses it with smtp
[08:03:58] <umccullough> and pop3
[08:04:04] <DeadYak> that might be why then :P
[08:04:09] <DeadYak> with imap, it's imo craptastic
[08:04:12] <aroman> I'll give thunderbird a try with my gmail on imap :P
[08:04:19] <slaad> I don't know about craptastic.
[08:04:24] <umccullough> i've used it to connect to my exchange server at work with IMAP before
[08:04:30] <umccullough> it handled 10k emails ok
[08:04:35] <umccullough> as in, 10,000
[08:04:58] <DeadYak> umccullough: that's precisely the scenario here, one of my coworkers can't pick an older email without thunderbird taking like a minute and a half to retrieve it
[08:05:00] <umccullough> took a long-ass time though
[08:05:01] <DeadYak> and locking dead while doing so
[08:05:17] <DeadYak> in general the GUI's slow as hell once you have it showing a large mailbox
[08:05:22] <umccullough> yeah, performance may not be its best trait ;)
[08:06:08] <umccullough> i really should clean up my mailbox at work...
[08:06:21] <umccullough> i've been getting "exceeded your storage limit" warnings now for the better part of a year
[08:06:28] <DeadYak> lo;l
[08:06:42] <umccullough> fortunately nobody ever does anything about that :D
[08:07:00] <ari-free> I'm not sure if the mozilla apps are multithreaded well
[08:07:07] <DeadYak> they're not from what I've seen
[08:07:19] <umccullough> they sort of pre-date the multi-threading craze
[08:07:42] <umccullough> the nspr kinda kills all that shit i believe
[08:08:12] <umccullough> I'd like to see gecko evolve a bit more
[08:09:19] * umccullough fires a rocket at berlios.de
[08:10:33] <DeadYak> a lot of apps out there are written very poorly when it comes to threading, that's not really unique to moz
[08:12:35] <pyCube> its not the easiest thing to do
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[08:13:14] <DeadYak> didn't say it was easy
[08:13:15] <DHowett> Well when it comes to BeOS & Haiku development, a lot of things are poorly written for multithreading ;P
[08:13:57] <pyCube> DeadYak: right.. i was extnding your statement.. hehe
[08:14:02] <DHowett> that should be understood as 'from a BeOS and Haiku development perspective, a lot of things not developed for such ...'
[08:14:03] <DHowett> =\
[08:14:28] <DeadYak> pyCube: but on the other hand, when you've got apps that are backed by companies with millions in R&D invested in said apps, you'd think they'd be able to hire people with half a clue
[08:14:51] <umccullough> you'd think ;)
[08:14:56] <ari-free> overengineering
[08:14:59] <ari-free> large teams
[08:15:06] <umccullough> until they realize that those with 1/4 clue are cheaper
[08:15:11] <umccullough> and they can hire twice as many
[08:15:55] <pyCube> too bad engineering doesnt really work like that.. hehe
[08:15:58] <ari-free> they can support more features but the price is a junkier app
[08:16:20] <umccullough> my favorite is the assumption that twice as many developers cuts development time in half
[08:16:31] <pyCube> right
[08:16:32] <pyCube> heheh
[08:16:39] <pyCube> 'add more developers!'
[08:21:34] <ari-free> it's how the linux system is supposed to work
[08:21:51] <pyCube> not really
[08:23:02] <ari-free> make the design decision a democracy
[08:24:27] <umccullough> too many cooks....
[08:24:46] <pyCube> depends
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[08:25:05] <ari-free> you need a really good executive chef. not 5 million sous chefs
[08:25:45] <ari-free> sous chefs can be really talented. they can chop up a chicken in 5 seconds flat
[08:25:48] <pyCube> good thing not everything is like making a meal
[08:25:52] <umccullough> yes, a small set of decision makers, and a lot of people who follow directions
[08:26:46] <umccullough> the problems begin when everyone has a different opinion of how it should be done
[08:27:49] <ari-free> you can't really have a lot of people who just follow directions because...very few will
[08:27:56] <pyCube> thatts where new and better ideas come from
[08:28:16] <ari-free> thats why small teams work well
[08:28:21] <geist> 7
[08:28:24] <umccullough> pyCube, sure, but that's also where focus is lost, and nothing actually gets completed :)
[08:28:27] <geist> +/- 2
[08:28:31] <geist> romans figured that out
[08:28:37] <umccullough> 7 is a lot ;)
[08:28:48] <geist> it's the ideal human party
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[08:29:02] * umccullough wonders why most RPG games only support 4
[08:29:08] <umccullough> ripoff
[08:29:33] <ari-free> 7 +/-2 is also the average short term memory span. maybe not a coincidence
[08:30:08] <pyCube> geist: i am partial to parties of 2 wher the other person is opposite gender wise
[08:30:27] <ari-free> then you'd NEVER get any work done!
[08:30:36] <umccullough> agreed
[08:30:43] <pyCube> ari-free: depends on the, um, job
[08:30:55] <pyCube> hehe
[08:30:56] <umccullough> ok, so maybe some calorie burning occurs
[08:31:25] <ari-free> but no software
[08:31:40] * pyCube points at the nerd
[08:32:09] <geist> NERDs
[08:32:28] <umccullough> huh, i just realized I haven't seen TheNerd lately
[08:32:35] <geist> I was thinking more like
[08:32:45] <geist> OGRE: NERDS!!
[08:32:49] <pyCube> lets see...software or 'calorie burning'....?
[08:33:14] <aroman> all right... I got kubuntu 8.04 beta installed :P now if only berlios was up... ahem
[08:33:41] <umccullough> aroman, i can post you my local repo that I zipped :)
[08:34:02] <umccullough> but honestly - you'd be better off waiting for berlios to come back
[08:34:31] <aroman> umccullough: I don't want to bother you... don't worry about it... I'll wait
[08:37:52] <umccullough> crap, where did I put my beos max CD :(
[08:38:24] <umccullough> ah
[08:39:43] <aroman> oh god... there was a new BSG episode last night wasn't it??
[08:40:03] <aroman> !!!
[08:40:08] * aroman goes off to download :P
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[08:42:05] <umccullough> I *need* the ipro1000 driver for BeOS R5 net_server :(
[08:42:14] <umccullough> i expected it to be on the max cd, but it isn't
[08:43:02] <geist> aroman: yeah. must watch
[08:44:17] <aroman> geist: will have it in 15-20 min :P 720p hehe
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[08:46:11] <aroman> yeah... thunderbird is crap with gmail (imap) and my 5k+ messages in my inbox :P
[08:46:48] <umccullough> only 5k?
[08:46:53] <umccullough> my gmail box has over 12k ;)
[08:47:00] <aroman> well
[08:47:23] <umccullough> heh
[08:47:26] <umccullough> yeah, same here
[08:47:36] <umccullough> i don't archive though
[08:47:40] <umccullough> just label
[08:47:42] <aroman> freebsd-stable (2111 unread) :P
[08:47:48] <umccullough> nice
[08:48:37] <aroman> if I want to read it, I can go to the specific label... I like to have only "legitimate" email in my inbox (i.e. mail that is for me and that I will most likely also reply to)
[08:48:40] <umccullough> i wonder if google is somehow smart enough to combine mailing list messages received by multiple gmail users
[08:48:59] <aroman> umccullough: how do you mean?
[08:49:17] <umccullough> aroman, like store a single copy of the message and a link from every gmail user that has it in their inbox
[08:49:34] <aroman> umccullough: doubt it...
[08:49:38] <umccullough> yeah, same here
[08:49:46] <DeadYak> aroman: that's more or less what I do
[08:49:47] <umccullough> i'm sure it's all compressed
[08:49:52] <DeadYak> aroman: everything that I label I also archive
[08:50:16] <aroman> I hear google has crazy servers with enormous amounts of RAM
[08:50:39] <aroman> I can't recall the exact figures but it was tens of GB of RAM
[08:50:42] <umccullough> anyone here use the R5 ipro1000 driver?
[08:50:47] <DeadYak> not I
[08:50:50] <DeadYak> the one marcus wrote?
[08:50:53] <umccullough> anyone have beshare?
[08:50:53] <DeadYak> (I think)
[08:50:56] <umccullough> DeadYak, yeah
[08:51:12] <umccullough> i've asked him on several occasions, but he sorta forgets
[08:51:22] <umccullough> and never gets back to me
[08:51:31] <DeadYak> he's been busy as all hell at work lately
[08:51:34] <aroman> is there a DC++ client for BeOS? I think it would be cool to be able to share haiku builds and drivers and stuff there :P
[08:51:47] <umccullough> i could try to build one myself from the haiku repo - but first I gotta get all the necessary tools onto my beos machine :(
[08:52:01] <umccullough> aroman, not really
[08:52:14] <umccullough> there's a start on a client, but only for chat
[08:52:21] <DeadYak> umccullough: TARGET=r5 jam ipro1000 right?
[08:52:36] <umccullough> DeadYak, yeah, but you gotta actually bein R5 for that to work ;)
[08:52:40] <DeadYak> oh?
[08:52:44] <umccullough> since it requires the r5 headers right?
[08:52:51] <umccullough> and the r5 compiler...
[08:52:52] <DeadYak> dunno, I thought it could do a direct build
[08:53:20] <DeadYak> afaik the haiku compiler can still do an r5 build, just not the other way around
[08:53:39] <umccullough> hmm...
[08:53:50] <umccullough> i thought the target specify changes everything that jam uses
[08:54:04] <DeadYak> could be, I'm not 100% sure on that
[08:54:09] <DeadYak> I never really use that feature
[08:54:32] <umccullough> supposedly it changes to use the host headers/compiler and assumes you're on the platform you target
[08:54:43] <DeadYak> ah
[08:54:48] <umccullough> thus why sikosis could no longer build the R5 jam packages when he switched to linux for his build platform
[08:55:27] <umccullough> it aso changes the HAIKU_TARGET_PLATFORM_* defines so sources can figure out what the hell is going on
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[08:55:57] <DeadYak> gotcha
[08:56:06] <umccullough> hmm...
[08:56:16] <umccullough> let me fire up my older beos machine - maybe I have the sources there still
[08:57:25] <aroman> so, how do you share files between beos and other os'es over the network?
[08:57:41] <DeadYak> Beshare has a portable client
[08:57:43] <DeadYak> = Unizone
[08:57:45] <aroman> is there nfs/samba/afp support? or something else?
[08:57:53] <aroman> beshare?
[08:58:14] <DeadYak> yup
[08:58:22] <aroman> works on linux?
[08:58:24] <ari-free> Andre braga wrote: FWIW, I have *not* abandoned the scheduler I wrote for the '07 GSoC;
[08:58:26] <ari-free> on the contrary, I'm working on it daily as part of my final
[08:58:27] <aroman> or mac?
[08:58:28] <ari-free> assignment as a college student.
[08:58:37] <umccullough> there was something called BeServed years ago
[08:59:37] <aroman> maybe when ssh will work it will be better :)
[09:01:04] <umccullough> can always ftp :)
[09:01:23] <umccullough> don't think there's an ftpd though
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[09:02:11] <aroman> true
[09:02:46] * aroman is happy with his memory heap implementation :) soon to work on buddy memory management
[09:03:15] <umccullough> crappy - the beos_ipro1000 target in the haiku repo doesn't build on r5 :(
[09:03:56] <umccullough> i need to revert back to something ancient i guess
[09:04:54] * aroman is off to watch the new BSG
[09:05:45] <ari-free> I miss the old cylons
[09:05:52] <ari-free> they were cute
[09:06:30] <DeadYak> BY YOUR COMMAND
[09:06:44] <ari-free> aha!
[09:07:07] <ari-free> why do we sound like we are talking into a fan?
[09:14:56] <aroman> crazy beginning to the episode!! :D
[09:15:08] <aroman> that's what I love about bsg... it's crazy!
[09:15:10] <aroman> :)
[09:15:34] <geist> yeah, it's a good one
[09:17:25] <umccullough> hmm... i need a local copy of the haiku svn repo
[09:17:30] <umccullough> as in, the entire repo
[09:17:33] <umccullough> this is suck
[09:19:48] <umccullough> lol: http://open-beos.cvs.sourceforge.net/open-beos/current/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network/ipro1000/
[09:19:58] <umccullough> the old Sourceforge CVS is around ;)
[09:27:34] <umccullough> holy shit - this rack server just powered on by itself...
[09:27:41] <MrSunshine> aroman, new bsg good? :)
[09:27:46] <MrSunshine> (new season)
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[09:32:27] <Stargater> moin
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[09:42:45] <JBurton> hi all
[09:42:45] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton
[09:47:06] <umccullough> sleeptime
[09:48:37] <JBurton> night umccullough
[09:50:36] <aroman> MrSunshine: oh yeah :)
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[09:53:42] <JBurton> ciao Barrett666
[09:54:47] <Barrett666> ciao JBurton : D
[09:54:54] <Stargater> hmm berlios down over one day
[09:54:57] <Stargater> :(
[09:54:58] <Stargater> badly
[09:55:09] <Stargater> hi JBurton
[09:55:17] <JBurton> hi Stargater
[09:55:20] <Stargater> JBurton have you children ?
[09:55:25] <JBurton> yeah I can't sync with current
[09:55:29] <Barrett666> lol
[09:56:07] <Stargater> lol ?
[09:57:41] <JBurton> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lol
[10:00:37] <Stargater> JBurton http://tm.kaldience.com/dir/members/stargater/bilder/memory_shots/memory002_haiku.png
[10:01:28] <Stargater> form my learnig c++ ond BeAPI
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[10:01:57] <JBurton> nice :)
[10:03:01] *** pyCube has quit IRC
[10:04:43] <Stargater> :-)
[10:07:58] <aroman> has anyone here ever implemented a buddy memory allocator?
[10:10:02] <JBurton> aroman: not me, sorry
[10:10:11] <JBurton> btw aroman = Alexandru Roman ?
[10:10:18] <aroman> JBurton: yes
[10:10:34] <JBurton> oh nice, hope your application will be accepted for gsoc
[10:10:39] <ari-free> I'm going to start a new movement. The Project for the Elimination of Stupid Internet Acronyms.
[10:10:50] <JBurton> PESIA ?
[10:10:55] <aroman> :( I need to do a work term report... :( so I'm doing some memory allocators comparison
[10:10:58] <Stargater> JBurton do you code terminal ? i have a question for color in term
[10:11:00] <aroman> JBurton: thanks :)
[10:11:03] <ari-free> and no it will not be otherwise known as PESIA
[10:11:18] <JBurton> ari-free: I'd call it AAA
[10:11:19] <ari-free> i saw that!
[10:11:25] <JBurton> Anti-Acronyms Association
[10:11:54] <ari-free> if you want to laugh say Ha!
[10:12:02] <ari-free> saves a letter
[10:12:03] <JBurton> aroman: the linux kernel has one, afai
[10:12:37] <JBurton> Stargater: shoot
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[10:13:26] <aroman> JBurton: I thought linux used slab/slob/slub
[10:13:42] <Stargater> JBurton, the folder color is a green rect, this is not good reading, i think a font color is better , what think you ?
[10:14:02] <DHowett> aroman: they're memory allocators, aren't they? :_)
[10:14:06] <aroman> Stargater: that has to do with the permissions set for the folder
[10:14:50] <aroman> DHowett: yes, they are :P but now I'm looking at buddy memory allocation... I'll be comparing heaps/mempools and buddy
[10:15:04] <Stargater> oh ah hmm
[10:15:46] <JBurton> Stargater: ah yes, I noticed that too
[10:15:54] <JBurton> hi DHowett
[10:15:59] <Stargater> ok nice
[10:16:03] <JBurton> oh so many gsoc candidates here, cool
[10:16:13] <JBurton> aroman: yes that too :)
[10:16:21] * DHowett ducks behind the waiter.
[10:16:27] <JBurton> at least, last time I read, the slab was on top of the buddy allocator
[10:16:34] <JBurton> but could have changed in recent kernels
[10:16:44] <Stargater> JBurton ok
[10:20:47] <Stargater> JBurton http://tm.kaldience.com/dir/members/stargater/CPP/terminal.zip
[10:21:13] <Stargater> but is a simple add to start tracker, with beroster and launche -> terminal app
[10:21:29] <JBurton> to launch it in the current folder ?
[10:21:33] <Stargater> but the msg habe a path refs
[10:21:35] <Stargater> NO
[10:21:46] <Stargater> it start home
[10:22:11] <Stargater> in terminal need to msg->FindRefs() ...
[10:22:51] <JBurton> hmm I see
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[10:23:06] <Stargater> 5 sec developing
[10:23:14] <emitrax> morning all
[10:23:20] <Stargater> but better as nothing
[10:23:39] <Stargater> and is a good to reminder for the terminal = what todo
[10:23:44] <Stargater> :_)
[10:24:08] * Stargater makes coffe for all developers
[10:24:11] <Stargater> moin emitrax
[10:24:21] <Stargater> good sleep ?
[10:24:27] <emitrax> not enough though :)
[10:24:52] <Stargater> :-) i see what you mean emitrax :-) here too
[10:25:08] <JBurton> hi emitrax
[10:25:14] <emitrax> hi JBurton!
[10:25:19] <JBurton> emitrax: Terminal does have replicant capabilities
[10:25:26] <emitrax> JBurton: Vota Antonio Di Pietro! :D
[10:25:29] <JBurton> what it's missing is the replicant handle
[10:25:33] <JBurton> emitrax: not this time
[10:25:39] <JBurton> emitrax:  did that the last time, though
[10:25:44] <JBurton> this time I won't vote anyone
[10:25:53] <emitrax> JBurton: how do I use without the little (awful) handle?
[10:25:56] <JBurton> or, just in case, I'll vote "LaMinkiaNelPugno"
[10:26:02] <JBurton> emitrax: you can't :P
[10:26:20] <JBurton> emitrax: or you can use it programmatically
[10:26:33] <emitrax> JBurton: vota antonio vota antonio vota antonio. Che è l'unico uomo che ci puo togliere dai coglioni il nano
[10:26:36] <JBurton> as I did in the RepliTerminal test app (check src/tests/app/RepliTerminal)
[10:26:37] <Stargater> JBurton ah, i have test the mac os x terminal , i i think haiku have in time a better terminal, but not better then gnome ore kde terminal
[10:26:46] <emitrax> JBurton: how abut you add the handle? :)
[10:26:51] <JBurton> emitrax:  eh lo so, ma l'ultima volta votando Di Pietro e' andato su Mastella
[10:26:57] <JBurton> emitrax: yeah could be done
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[10:27:18] <JBurton> only problem is that, with the current implementation, replicating a terminal would create a scrollbarless terminal
[10:27:45] <Stargater> this good without scrollbars
[10:28:13] <Stargater> when we scrolling with keyshots
[10:28:53] <Stargater> a small term repli without menu and scrollbars = good for dektop repli
[10:29:25] <Stargater> + face transparents
[10:29:28] <Stargater> :-)
[10:29:47] <JBurton> Stargater: the app is there already, in src/tests/app/RepliTerminal :)
[10:30:37] <Stargater> jam
[10:30:58] <emitrax> JBurton: esatto è andato sul corrotto di turno e la distrutto! :) Distruggiamo il nano questa volta.
[10:31:16] <JBurton> ahah
[10:31:21] <JBurton> speriamo
[10:31:24] <JBurton> vabbe' ora stacco
[10:31:27] <emitrax> JBurton: http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=KKc6POWvqmo
[10:31:28] <JBurton> rebooto in haiku
[10:31:31] <JBurton> byeall
[10:31:33] <emitrax> ciao
[10:31:38] <JBurton> 'ao
[10:31:50] <Stargater> cu
[10:31:55] <Stargater> thx JBurton
[10:33:18] <Stargater> reboot haiku to see the term repli :-)
[10:33:23] <Stargater> 15 min back
[10:33:24] <aroman> bah... how do I print something like 0x%08x in *printf using C++ iostreams? like cout << std::hex is for hex, but how do I pad with 0's?
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[10:33:37] <aroman> google's not too firendly at 1:33 Am in the morning :(
[10:36:07] <DHowett> std::setw(width) << std::setfill('0')
[10:36:10] <DHowett> i think?
[10:36:37] <DHowett> width depending on the length to pad to, of course. :)
[10:37:10] <DHowett> cout << hex << setw() << setfill('0') << number
[10:38:19] <aroman> thank you DHowett :)
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[10:38:50] <DHowett> ^^
[10:39:07] <vinleod> Hello.
[10:40:05] <DHowett> 'lo vinleod
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[10:41:53] <Stargater> re
[10:41:56] <Stargater> JBurton good
[10:42:22] <vinleod> This is annoying. All I can think of  to ask is probably answered in a FAQ somewhere.
[10:42:38] <Stargater> JBurton font size smaler and rezise to preferet :-)
[10:42:49] <DHowett> vinleod: Ask :)
[10:43:35] <vinleod> Well, I guess one question I have that I haven't found in a FAQ sheet is: Is Haiku stable enough to build itself yet?
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[10:43:49] <DHowett> It has successfully self-hosted
[10:44:19] <vinleod> Oh, cool. I don't have a copy of BeOS, and somehow cross compiling with Linux seems evil to me.
[10:44:46] <absabs> svn.berlios.de is down?
[10:44:54] <absabs> I can't svn update today
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[10:45:14] <psychodealiq> hi all!
[10:45:22] <DHowett> berlios is down
[10:45:26] <DHowett> hey psychodealiq
[10:45:36] <absabs> oops
[10:45:40] <psychodealiq> how to mount cd/dvd in haiku?
[10:46:01] <DHowett> right-click the desktop and go to the mount menu, i believe.
[10:46:21] <vinleod> Hmm, I'd try to help, but I left my Haiku VM at home.
[10:46:45] <psychodealiq> hm... i've tried to do that but there's no cd in list... just haiku partition
[10:47:12] <psychodealiq> tried to do that on real hardware... not vm
[10:48:40] <DHowett> hmmm... what build number?
[10:48:59] <DHowett> in the about dialog
[10:50:04] <psychodealiq> can't remember... left it at home. i've downloaded fresh build at thursday or friday...
[10:50:40] <psychodealiq> hm. will try to install today's build
[10:50:49] <DHowett> Recently (just under a week ago) there were changes in the filesystem layer
[10:51:09] <DHowett> the only filesystem that works right now is BFS; CDs and other disks won't show up
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[10:52:54] <psychodealiq> can i mount it from terminal? something like "mount /dev/atapi/3/... /mountpoint"? or some parameters must be added?
[10:53:18] <DHowett> Nothing'll work until they bring the other filesystems up to par with the changes
[10:53:22] <DHowett> Sorry \=
[10:53:34] <vinleod> So, what changed?
[10:53:51] <psychodealiq> ok, thanks alot DHowett.
[10:53:56] <DHowett> That I don't remember.. no problem ^^
[10:57:35] <DHowett> whoops. I just realized I was trying to get an svn log.. from a server that was down
[10:57:35] <DHowett> ><
[10:58:44] <geist> that dog dont hunt
[10:59:41] <DHowett> I sat here for a good 5 minutes looking at a blank `less' and then remembered berlios was down. Bah, it's 5AM. I'm not responsible for thinking.
[11:04:23] <DHowett> Night :)
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[11:26:34] <Stargater> co cu later
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[11:42:42] <ddew|bofh> *groan* this can't healthy, i'm running on fumes now
[11:43:16] <ddew|bofh> been studying since like 4 in the afternoon yesterday fueled by only caffeine and cigarettes :)
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[11:43:37] <geist> i usually found that at some point you hit diminishing returns
[11:43:42] <geist> and you're better off just getting sleep
[11:44:02] <geist> and if you dont know enough to pass the test, well, you're screwed
[11:44:03] <aroman> my circuits prof said: "a good night's sleep can do wonders"
[11:44:29] <geist> and hopefully you'll have enough forethought to not cram at the last minute next time
[11:44:35] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i've given up on the idea of learning more now. now it's just a matter of staying concius
[11:44:51] <ddew|bofh> i'm not studying for a test or anything, i'm retired
[11:44:58] <ddew|bofh> i'm just learning because it's fun
[11:45:09] <geist> oh, well then carry on
[11:45:23] <ddew|bofh> heh
[11:45:47] <aroman> :)
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[11:50:09] <ddew|bofh> internet really is a golden source of geeky nostalgia.
[11:50:44] <ddew|bofh> been checking out photos from previous begeisterts :)
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[12:06:30] <MauriceK> berlios still down?
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[12:09:17] <ddew|bofh> looks like it
[12:10:19] <MauriceK> darn
[12:10:32] <aroman> berlios has always been slow for me... :( why is haiku hosted there anyways? there are faster and more reliable alternatives (sourceforge, for example)..
[12:11:30] <ddew|bofh> some kind of distributed vcs would be nice, eliminates the single point of failure
[12:11:49] <aroman> is git distributed?
[12:11:56] <ddew|bofh> yup
[12:12:00] <aroman> I see a lot of projects are using that nowadays
[12:12:11] <ddew|bofh> yeah, like the linux kernel :)
[12:12:26] <aroman> well, afaik it was written FOR the linux kernel :P
[12:13:03] <ddew|bofh> i read something about that, point is that if it's solid enough for linux it should be able to handle haiku :)
[12:13:10] <MauriceK> started as, but many project switched to it
[12:13:33] <MauriceK> ddew|bofh: just send a mail, some dependencies are still missing, but a rough port should be doable
[12:15:05] <aroman> hmm.. yeah if git could be ported to Haiku/BeOS, that would be sweet :)
[12:15:38] <aroman> interesting...
[12:15:38] <aroman> http://repo.or.cz/
[12:16:11] <MauriceK> for instance yeah :)
[12:16:58] <aroman> I'm gonna set up a mirror there to update automatically from berlios svn... when it comes back online... sigh
[12:17:21] <MauriceK> aroman: repo.or.cz only allows 100MB project
[12:17:26] <ddew|bofh> berlios seems to have lots of problems
[12:17:27] <aroman> oh
[12:17:30] <aroman> crap
[12:17:30] <MauriceK> haiku with full history is around 700MB
[12:17:33] <MauriceK> without checkout
[12:17:39] <ddew|bofh> a lot of the times it's either very slow or down
[12:18:10] <MauriceK> my git repo is good enough for me and julun, but definitely does not provide bandwidth/traffic for the whole community
[12:18:25] <MauriceK> ddew|bofh: it's currently extremly worse, yes
[12:18:30] <MauriceK> though it had better times
[12:18:43] <ddew|bofh> can't remember when that's been :)
[12:18:47] <MauriceK> hehe
[12:19:02] <ddew|bofh> seriously, it's dog slow
[12:19:28] <aroman> is it the same for people in Europe? I always thought it was slow because I was in North America..
[12:20:02] <ddew|bofh> i'm on european fiber and it takes ages even for me
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[12:23:19] <aroman> where is haiku-os.org hosted? maybe the hosting service can provide git?
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[12:26:06] <aroman> http://tuxfamily.org/ seems to provide 100MB quota, but they say that it "can be increased if you need more space"
[12:27:06] <MauriceK> i think this discussion goes into a wrong direction. Previously to having git for R5/Haiku it does not make any sense at all
[12:27:19] <MauriceK> most of the core developers are using R5 or Haiku already
[12:27:30] <MauriceK> thus it's not useful for them having the repository non accessible
[12:28:13] <ddew|bofh> yeah, the problem isn't really what vcs is used but the problems with berlios
[12:28:34] <aroman> MauriceK: yes, I agree... but, looking ahead... to a time when git will be available on R5/haiku :)
[12:31:15] <MauriceK> aroman: hehe ok
[12:31:27] <MauriceK> I'm very much in favor of git, so you'd get me :)
[12:34:37] <aroman> looks like the big dependencies of git is openssh and openssl
[12:35:23] <ddew|bofh> both of which are working on haiku
[12:36:48] <aroman> really? I thought openssh didn't work yet
[12:38:10] <MauriceK> not yet, that is why ingo is working on the posix calls
[12:38:15] <MauriceK> but openssl works
[12:38:34] <MauriceK> what's the state of mmap? I think it's supported by now, right?
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[12:39:26] <geist> yes
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[12:58:56] <burfi> In case a switch of hoster is considered, I suggest http://dotsrc.org, former sunsite.dk
[13:03:45] <aroman> so, can Haiku still be compiled with gcc-2.95 from BeOS [Max]?
[13:04:36] <mmadia> nope.
[13:05:07] <aroman> can it still be compiled from BeOS, though? with gcc 4, I would imaging..
[13:05:16] <mmadia> nope.
[13:05:35] <{V}> or at Google Code. But best would be some mirror system that allows both reading and writing to all mirror (yeah, like that's going to happen)
[13:05:36] <mmadia> it can be compiled from BeOS with a slighty newer gcc2-95 that isn't included in Max ; )
[13:06:15] <aroman> ok... 4am... misphrased my question :P
[13:06:33] <aroman> can I build Haiku from within BeOS Max? If yes, with what compiler? :P
[13:06:55] <mmadia> there's an email from mmlr in haiku-development  iirc, where a link and instructions are given.
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[13:07:59] <mmlr> aroman: http://www.haiku-os.org/documents/dev/getting_the_source_code <- installing the cross-compiler
[13:08:15] <mmadia> he's psychic!  : D
[13:08:40] <MauriceK> haha
[13:08:47] <aroman> thanks mmlr :)
[13:09:51] <mmlr> btw if you're looking for a buddy allocator the physical memory allocator in the USB stack does something like that (in src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/usb/PhysicalMemoryAllocator.cpp)
[13:10:39] <aroman> mmlr: I need/want to make one... I'm halfway done anyways (allocation works)... But thanks, i will take a look
[13:10:59] <mmlr> mmadia: no he's reading the logs ;-)
[13:12:08] <mmadia> while offline?  : )
[13:13:26] <mmlr> mmadia: there's the echelog
[13:13:58] <mmadia> right, but less than a minute passed after i said your name.
[13:14:16] <mmlr> I'm bored because berlios is down, so I'm reading up if there's anything interesting happening in here
[13:14:47] <mmlr> and as I had the url handy and vision's not too far away...
[13:18:45] <mmadia> is there anything better to edit    .rsrc files besides quickres?
[13:19:06] <mmlr> not that I know of
[13:19:19] <mmlr> if you make an rdef out of it you can hand edit it using a text editor though
[13:20:17] <mmadia> can xres be used to apply .rdef's?
[13:21:08] <mmlr> probably
[13:22:44] <mmadia> ah, nevermind. the mimetype wasn't correctly set on the .rsrc  : )
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[13:24:29] * ThomHolwerda waves
[13:24:49] * mmadia rides the wave
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[13:44:43] <aroman> night all... going to sleep
[13:45:34] <mmlr> ha
[13:45:37] <mmlr>  PING svn.berlios.de (195.37.77.137): 56 data bytes
[13:45:38] <mmlr>  64 bytes from 195.37.77.137: icmp_seq=0 ttl=53 time=38.053 ms
[13:45:38] <mmlr>  64 bytes from 195.37.77.137: icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=37.476 ms
[13:48:29] <CIA-50> mmlr * r24925 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/busses/usb/ehci.cpp: (log message trimmed)
[13:48:29] <CIA-50> * Set the interrupt threshold of the controller when doing the rest of the
[13:48:29] <CIA-50>  initialization as suggested by the EHCI spec and do not touch it again
[13:48:29] <CIA-50>  once the controller is running. Doing so would result in undefined behaviour
[13:48:29] <CIA-50>  according to EHCI specs.
[13:48:30] <CIA-50> * Set the port routing policy after the controller has started and not before
[13:48:32] <CIA-50>  as suggested by the EHCI specs.
[13:48:35] <CIA-50> mmlr * r24926 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/usb/Stack.cpp: (log message trimmed)
[13:48:36] <CIA-50> Use a list of host controller modules instead of using open_module_list() and
[13:48:38] <CIA-50> read_next_module_name(). This is ugly and less flexible but it allows us to
[13:48:40] <CIA-50> explicitly force an initialization order. As detailed by the added comment
[13:48:43] <CIA-50> there seem to be controllers/BIOSes that require the EHCI controller to be
[13:48:46] <CIA-50> initialized after the companion host controller or else they refuse to publish
[13:48:48] <CIA-50> any high speed devices. This was the case for bug #1236 and my laptop when
[13:49:53] <oco> business restart :-)
[13:52:29] <oco> oh : it seems it was a planned shutdown : Due to maintenance work on our power supply all BerliOS Services will be not available from Saturday, April 12th, 08:00 to Sunday, April 13th, 12:00 CEST.
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[13:55:04] <mmlr> hmm
[13:56:07] <{V}> yay!
[13:56:28] <mmlr> they could've spread that using their lists or something
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[13:57:07] <oco> only on the main page...
[13:57:09] <{V}> you'd think that. or have 1 web server online that displays that message
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[13:59:51] <mmlr> now the mailing lists start to catch up ;-)
[14:01:12] <mmlr> yeah, anyway going to do something else now
[14:01:15] <mmlr> bye all
[14:01:24] <oco> bye
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[14:42:42] <CIA-50> korli * r24927 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/fd.cpp:
[14:42:42] <CIA-50> gcc4 build fix. Here is one of the two errors:
[14:42:42] <CIA-50> src/system/kernel/fs/fd.cpp: In function 'ssize_t common_user_vector_io(int, off_t, const iovec*, size_t, bool)':
[14:42:42] <CIA-50> src/system/kernel/fs/fd.cpp:727: error: ISO C++ says that these are ambiguous, even though the worst conversion for the first is better than the worst conversion for the
[14:42:45] <CIA-50> second:
[14:42:46] <CIA-50> headers/private/kernel/syscall_restart.h:151: note: candidate 1: bool SyscallRestartWrapper<Type>::operator<(const Type&) const [with Type = long int]
[14:42:50] <CIA-50> src/system/kernel/fs/fd.cpp:727: note: candidate 2: operator<(long int, int) <built-in>
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[14:46:35] <Begasus> 'lo peeps
[14:46:54] <CIA-50> korli * r24928 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/fd.cpp: hmm I managed to break the comparaison order...
[14:49:30] <{V}> 'lo Begasus
[14:50:13] <daste> hi Begasus :-)
[14:50:18] <Begasus> hi {V} daste ;)
[14:50:39] <daste> does anyone know if there is an sql command that lets me add or subtract values from a row without fetching that value and do it "manually"?
[14:54:58] <CIA-50> korli * r24929 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/ (fd.cpp socket.cpp): better cast to the good type to avoid confusing gcc
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[14:55:26] <oco> maybe update table set field = field + value
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[14:56:02] <oco> it may depend on the sql dialect of your engine
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[14:59:35] <absabs> OMG, korli is machine too
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[15:13:30] <leszek> hi
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[15:14:24] <daste> oco, sorry, solved ;-)
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[15:16:39] <oco> no problem :)
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[15:36:41] <CIA-50> korli * r24930 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/expander/ExpanderRules.cpp:
[15:36:41] <CIA-50> Applied patch from n3s: the check for file extension was broken. Thanks!
[15:36:41] <CIA-50> This fixes bug #2034
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[15:45:11] <Hugen_> hi all
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[15:47:06] <Begasus> hi Hugen_
[15:47:18] <Hugen_> hi Begasus
[15:48:28] <CIA-50> laplace * r24931 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/bootman/bootman.S: Boot menu and loader by Dengg David.
[15:48:56] <CIA-50> laplace * r24932 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/bootman/MakeArray.cpp: Helper application that converts the contents of a file into an uint8 array.
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[15:57:23] <CIA-50> laplace * r24933 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/bootman/bootman.S:
[15:57:23] <CIA-50> Refactored and reformatted.
[15:57:23] <CIA-50> Select default item at start.
[15:57:23] <CIA-50> Added timeout handling.
[15:57:23] <CIA-50> Don't switch to graphics mode, stay in text mode instead. Graphics mode led to display issues with lilo.
[15:57:23] <CIA-50> Reverted order of text color like it is in original bootman.
[15:57:25] <CIA-50> Fixed bugs.
[15:59:33] <CIA-50> laplace * r24934 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/bootman/DefaultPartitionPage.cpp: Removed debug code.
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[16:03:36] <CIA-50> laplace * r24935 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/bootman/ (9 files): Save and restore MBR and write boot menu.
[16:08:23] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24936 /haiku/trunk/headers/posix/sys/socket.h:
[16:08:23] <CIA-50> * Added <sys/param.h> include, which is needed for _ALIGN().
[16:08:23] <CIA-50> * Added SCM_RIGHTS macro.
[16:08:23] <CIA-50> * Added a few non-standard but widely-used CMSG_*() macros.
[16:10:28] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24937 /haiku/trunk/ (headers/private/kernel/fs/fd.h src/system/kernel/fs/fd.cpp):
[16:10:28] <CIA-50> Added close_fd_index() which is pretty much like close(), but gets the
[16:10:28] <CIA-50> IO context in which to close the FD.
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[16:15:01] <CIA-50> korli * r24938 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/keymap/KeymapWindow.cpp: fixed bug #2067
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[16:28:14] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24939 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/socket.cpp: (log message trimmed)
[16:28:14] <CIA-50> * _user_{send,recf}msg() no longer copy iovecs on the stack. They use
[16:28:14] <CIA-50>  the heap and the IOV_MAX limit.
[16:28:14] <CIA-50> * They also take the responsibility of copying the ancillary data in and
[16:28:14] <CIA-50>  out.
[16:28:15] <CIA-50> * These syscalls were badly broken. They used a member of an
[16:28:18] <CIA-50>  uninitialized structure instead of the iovec pointer passed from
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[16:29:07] <mmadia> mmmm... the surge of a commit backlog : )
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[16:32:58] <[Katisu]> just hope the build doesn't get broke in the process
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[16:57:41] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24940 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
[16:57:41] <CIA-50> Added support for attaching ancillary data to a net_buffer. It's a naive
[16:57:41] <CIA-50> implementation ATM, since it malloc()s the required memory.
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[17:06:06] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24941 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[17:06:06] <CIA-50> Added support for sending/receiving ancillary data. The protocol modules
[17:06:06] <CIA-50> have two more optional hooks for attaching supplied ancillary data to a
[17:06:06] <CIA-50> net_buffer and for processing received ancillary data. Not sure, if that
[17:06:06] <CIA-50> is flexible enough for all kinds of ancillary data, but it is for
[17:06:08] <CIA-50> SCM_RIGHTS and also should for SCM_CRED[ENTIAL]S (if we ever decide to
[17:06:10] <CIA-50> implement one of those) -- don't know any other types on other protocol
[17:08:45] <CIA-50> korli * r24942 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/bzip2/ (13 files): updated bzip2 to 1.0.5
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[17:15:11] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24943 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/unix/ (UnixEndpoint.cpp UnixEndpoint.h UnixFifo.cpp unix.cpp): (log message trimmed)
[17:15:11] <CIA-50> * Added support for SCM_RIGHTS (sending file descriptors).
[17:15:11] <CIA-50> * Fixed shutdown(). It was computing the wrong fifo flags and set the
[17:15:11] <CIA-50>  wrong ones from the wrong variable on the peer fifo.
[17:15:11] <CIA-50> * Generally made the Unix sockets behave more like they should. E.g.
[17:15:14] <CIA-50>  after closing one end, it must still be possible to read from the
[17:15:15] <CIA-50>  other (as long as there are buffered data). Also fine-tuned when to
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[17:17:06] <frankps> hi all
[17:17:42] <{V}> hello frankps
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[17:35:21] <umccullough> damn, floodgates are open
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[17:37:25] <stargater> hi
[17:41:47] <{V}> 'lo stargater
[17:42:09] <{V}> hey have any of you heard about Codecsys ?
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[17:45:19] <umccullough> oh jeez... DeadYak linked directly to my ftp server's firefox build... :D
[17:45:41] <umccullough> well, at least it was on the SVN commit list only ;)
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[17:48:51] <{V}> which is publicly accessible ;)
[17:48:56] <stargater> hi {V}
[17:49:24] <stargater> reboot
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[17:49:52] <umccullough> {V}, well, so is my ftp server, so i guess i was asking for it
[17:50:20] <umccullough> i probably should move that to a linux box though instead of the windows server it's currently on here ;)
[17:50:51] <mmadia> umccullough  my bulids are online.
[17:50:54] <umccullough> maybe something faster than a pii 350
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[17:51:01] <umccullough> mmadia, cool, where at?
[17:51:04] <mmadia>
[17:51:05] <mmadia>  http://bezilla.beuser.de/builds/firefox-2.0.0.15pre.en-US.BeOS-bone-2008041302.zip
[17:51:05] <mmadia>  http://bezilla.beuser.de/builds/seamonkey-1.1.10pre.en-US.BeOS-bone-2008041302.zip
[17:51:06] <mmadia>  http://bezilla.beuser.de/builds/thunderbird-2.0.0.15pre.en-US.BeOS-bone-2008041302.zip
[17:51:07] <mmadia>  http://bezilla.beuser.de/builds/xulrunner-1.8.1.15pre.en-US.BeOS-bone-2008041302.zip
[17:51:07] <mmadia>  http://bezilla.beuser.de/builds/xulrunner-1.8.1.15pre.en-US.BeOS-bone.sdk-2008041302.zip
[17:51:23] <umccullough> mind if i link the firefox build then?
[17:51:26] <mmadia> i'll be updating the bebits page.
[17:51:34] <mmadia> sure thing : )
[17:51:39] <umccullough> k
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[17:51:45] <Stargater> re
[17:51:54] <mmadia> and  http://bezilla.beuser.de/builds/sunbird-0.9pre.en-US.BeOS-bone-2008041302.zip
[17:53:01] <mmadia> those are all re-ordered builds --  any feedback from r5bone users would be greatly appreciated,  as i'm waiting for feedback before getting the changes commited to the mozilla tree.
[17:54:37] <umccullough> mmadia, i suppose you may have heard that haiku currently doesn't work with the firefox bone build :(
[17:54:46] <umccullough> recent failure
[17:55:02] <mmadia> yeah, you mentioned that earlier to Yak  : (
[17:55:14] <umccullough> yeah, it was working for him also until he updated his haiku rev
[17:55:34] <umccullough> anyhow, ingo says he'll look into it on the svn commit list
[17:55:35] <mmadia> at least it's in Haiku : )
[17:55:42] <umccullough> heh
[17:55:53] <umccullough> i may put together an R5 BONE partition on my haiku test box...
[17:56:06] <mmadia> any changes to mozilla take at least a few days to get committed.
[17:56:09] <umccullough> i'm trying to locate the ipro1000 driver for R5 still :P
[17:56:39] <umccullough> i just checked out an ancient repo from the sourceforge openbeos CVS
[17:56:47] <umccullough> gonna build ipro1000 from there and see if it works
[17:56:53] <mmadia> do you know the filename, i'll query my storage box.
[17:56:58] <umccullough> no clue actually
[17:57:09] <umccullough> probably has the word intel or ipro in the name though
[17:57:21] <ThomHolwerda> what was the RAM limit on a PPC BeBox?
[17:57:27] <ThomHolwerda> dos anybody know?
[17:58:33] <ThomHolwerda> the datasheet on bebox.nu says 256mb, but i want to be sure :)
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[18:00:54] <umccullough> gah build busted
[18:00:56] <umccullough> easy fix though
[18:01:33] <mmadia> umccullough  http://bebits.com/appver/3862  lists and older non-existant filename:  ipro1000_0.4.zip
[18:03:46] <DeadYak> ThomHolwerda: 256 is correct
[18:03:47] <umccullough> ah yes
[18:04:30] <ThomHolwerda> DeadYak: okay, thanks - im writing an article on the ten prettiest computers (i feel shallow today) and wanted to make sure the bebox' specs were correct
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[18:05:02] <CIA-50> mmlr * r24944 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/bootman/LegacyBootDrive.cpp: Quick buildfix.
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[18:14:28] <The_Ringmaster> hi
[18:16:43] <{V}> mmadia, I guess your concerns were justified ;)
[18:17:01] <mmadia> {V} ... for?
[18:17:02] <{V}> oops
[18:17:14] <{V}> er [Katisu]s concersn were justified my mistake
[18:17:28] <{V}> <[Katisu]> just hope the build doesn't get broke in the process
[18:17:38] <mmadia> : )
[18:17:53] <DeadYak> in the process of what?
[18:18:14] <{V}> commit backlog
[18:18:17] <DeadYak> ah
[18:18:39] <[Katisu]> yeah, I'm not surprised
[18:19:01] <[Katisu]> at least it sounds like it was an easy fix
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[18:30:18] <Stargater> re
[18:32:53] <umccullough> mmadia, i think i've built an ipro1000 driver :)
[18:33:01] <umccullough> i need to create the net_server addon though
[18:34:49] <umccullough> mmadia, you happen to have net_server_addon.zip ?
[18:36:14] <stpere> umccullough: I would love building drivers :)
[18:36:21] <stpere> it sounds so .. technical :)
[18:36:21] <umccullough> heh
[18:36:35] <umccullough> stpere, fortunately i'm just compiling one that was already written ;)
[18:36:40] <stpere> oh :)
[18:36:45] <umccullough> otherwise i'd be way over my head
[18:36:46] <stpere> built in that way
[18:36:53] <umccullough> but for R5 net_server you need an additional "stupid" add-on
[18:37:19] <umccullough> and there's a package created by ithamar that created them, but his site appears to be dead :(
[18:37:55] <umccullough> i seem to recall it's not hard to make one using the sample code from Be - perhaps I'll have to do that
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[18:54:57] <Hugen_> re
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[19:01:21] <xcasex> haha DANE!
[19:01:23] <TuneTracker> greetings
[19:01:25] <TuneTracker> Anybody using Jabber?
[19:01:28] <TuneTracker> Hi xcasex!
[19:01:56] <xcasex> i use jabber!
[19:02:03] <xcasex> robert at broken dot asystemapart.com
[19:02:46] <TuneTracker> xcasex I'm still trying to understand what it's good for...it's used for chat via *various* instant messaging services?
[19:03:08] <TuneTracker> or is it its own instant messaging service?
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[19:03:25] <TuneTracker> Hi Monni
[19:03:30] <mmadia> umccullough  no, sorry : /
[19:03:50] <TuneTracker> xcasex ?
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[19:04:12] <Monni> hi TuneTracker
[19:04:41] <TuneTracker> Am I the only one for whom the video display is "broken" in recent builds of Haiku?
[19:04:53] <TuneTracker> black screen with overlapping transparent windows?
[19:04:54] <xcasex> well its ai nstant messaging service
[19:04:58] <xcasex> thats openended.
[19:05:10] <xcasex> it also has gateways for the various other IM networks.
[19:05:12] <xcasex> brb
[19:05:15] <TuneTracker> k
[19:05:40] <andreasf> TuneTracker: r24944 works for me
[19:06:46] <Monni> every damn IM client keeps crashing on me... says I have too many contacts ;)
[19:07:01] <TuneTracker> andreasf Are you using VM or a native installation?
[19:07:09] <andreasf> native
[19:07:28] <TuneTracker> me too
[19:07:44] <umccullough> TuneTracker, known issue with nvidia cards i believe
[19:07:52] <TuneTracker> wonder what's going on...I had beautiful video displays up until the most recent builds
[19:08:04] <umccullough> it was when korli started messing with the MTRRs
[19:08:07] <TuneTracker> umccullough Is it an issue that recently surfaced?  It was working before for me.
[19:08:14] <umccullough> recently like in the last month, yes
[19:08:17] <TuneTracker> ahhhh
[19:08:22] <TuneTracker> ok that makes total sense then...thanks
[19:08:27] <andreasf> I have Nvidia too .. might be card-dependent
[19:08:34] <TuneTracker> possibly
[19:08:39] <umccullough> andreasf, actually it can be color depth depenent
[19:08:44] <umccullough> try 16bit instead of 32bit
[19:08:49] <umccullough> or vice-versa
[19:09:07] <TuneTracker> umccullough The default would be 16 bit I assume, in a clean install, right?
[19:09:23] <umccullough> actually, i don't know - each driver decides its defaults
[19:09:36] <TuneTracker> k
[19:09:54] <TuneTracker> The display is so screwy that I can't see enough to even change it.  :-)
[19:10:04] <umccullough> you can try safemode video - not sure if that works or not
[19:10:06] <andreasf> I get 32bit as default - but probably that's decided from this EDID stuff?
[19:10:07] <TuneTracker> Maybe I can break into Haiku in safemode.
[19:10:40] <umccullough> in any case, there's a ticket, hang on
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[19:10:57] <umccullough> TuneTracker, do you have a copy of net_server_addon.zip ?
[19:11:01] <umccullough> ithamar pointed me to you
[19:11:15] <TuneTracker> umccullough hmm...
[19:11:25] <umccullough> apparently you needed it for an rtl driver
[19:11:26] <TuneTracker> Not sure what it is, umccullough
[19:11:32] <umccullough> it creates net_server addons for network drivers
[19:11:43] * TuneTracker looks
[19:12:10] <xcasex> TuneTracker: i have the same issue with haiku, but i set the display to 16 bit which solved it
[19:12:31] <TuneTracker> xcasex Ah, ok...glad I'm not the lone ranger on this one.  :-)
[19:12:40] <xcasex> hehe you never were :p
[19:12:42] <TuneTracker> umccullough I'm sorry, I don't see it here.
[19:12:50] <xcasex> TuneTracker: still hawking TT?
[19:12:50] <umccullough> :(
[19:13:10] <TuneTracker> xcasex Well I'd put it more eloquently than that, but yes.
[19:13:30] <xcasex> TuneTracker: excellent :)
[19:13:36] <umccullough> TuneTracker, can I forward you the message ithamar sent me?
[19:13:42] <TuneTracker> umccullough Sure
[19:14:21] <umccullough> pm me an address :)
[19:14:24] <Monni> I have net_server_addon.zip ;)
[19:14:32] <TuneTracker> umccullough There you go!
[19:14:56] <umccullough> Monni, great!
[19:15:27] <umccullough> Monni, is it somewhere i can grab it?
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[19:15:39] <Monni> umccullough: well... I could e-mail it to you...
[19:15:41] <TuneTracker> lunchtime!  ttyl
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[19:16:09] <umccullough> Monni, email address sent to you
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[19:16:47] <umccullough> i suppose i'll throw it on my FTP server and link it on the bebits page
[19:18:30] <Monni> umccullough: that would be wise...
[19:18:41] <umccullough> got it, thanks
[19:18:49] <Monni> umccullough: I used to have 4 GB of BeOS stuff before my BeOS box blew up...
[19:19:05] <umccullough> ditto :P
[19:19:26] <umccullough> i still have the partition sitting on a disk, but it's corrupt and axel's recover tools haven't succeeded yet
[19:19:39] <umccullough> in fact, i think this file was on there even
[19:20:05] <Monni> well... firmware on my disk was so corrupted that BIOS couldn't even detect geometrics of the disk...
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[19:20:35] <Hugen_> umccullough: ithamar? cups bounty?
[19:20:50] <DeadYak> ithamar only just got back home a few days ago
[19:21:17] <Monni> stupid drive manufacturers put part of the firmware on the physical disk plate and if it gets corrupted, recovering is bitch hard...
[19:21:39] <umccullough> Hugen_, same one - yes :)
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[19:23:55] <Hugen_> umccullough: and  any progress broken bounty ??;>
[19:25:17] <ThomHolwerda> there we go
[19:25:18] <ThomHolwerda> http://www.osnews.com/story/19621/The_Ten_Most_Beautiful_Computers
[19:27:35] <umccullough> Hugen_, i wouldn't know
[19:28:09] <Hugen_> aha
[19:33:02] <DeadYak> Hugen_: Ithamar was gone for 2 months because he was in a car accident
[19:33:09] <DeadYak> so nothing's happened to CUPS
[19:33:41] <umccullough> yikes
[19:33:55] <Hugen_> DeadYak: ahh, I understand
[19:33:56] <umccullough> anyhow, gotta go outside for a while, ttyl
[19:34:02] <DeadYak> see ya Urias
[19:34:08] <ThomHolwerda> wow i didn't know
[19:34:17] <ThomHolwerda> is he okay?
[19:35:12] <DeadYak> yeah
[19:35:41] <ThomHolwerda> good
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[19:39:10] <mmadia> http://bebits.com/app/4552
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[19:43:13] <xcasex> migrating services from and to servers is a real bitch when connecting to one of the servers is like nasa mission control to a sattelite
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[20:17:17] <Hugen__> re
[20:17:50] <stpere> hey Hugen
[20:18:46] <AlienSoldier> is that supposed to be run stand alone?? http://www.bebits.com/bob/21720/xulrunner-1.8.1.15pre.en-US.BeOS-bone-2008041302.zip
[20:20:51] <mmadia> AlienSoldier  XULRunner might be horribly non-functional.
[20:21:03] <AlienSoldier> it just do nothing here
[20:21:17] <mmadia> well, XULRunner is an XUL application launcher.
[20:21:53] <AlienSoldier> so it's like an emulator?
[20:22:25] <mmadia> i guess... like an interpreter.
[20:22:49] <AlienSoldier> can it run a browser? i can't stand my current https situation
[20:22:50] <mmadia> but i don't fully understand XULRunner yet.
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[20:30:39] <umccullough> there are some articles out there explaining how to write XUL apps
[20:31:37] <mmadia> .. i've been trying,  just not succeeding yet : )
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[20:32:44] <umccullough> http://blogs.acceleration.net/ryan/archive/2005/05/06/1073.aspx
[20:32:55] <stpere> I have the feeling I should try to port something to haiku, just don't know what :)
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[20:33:19] <mmadia> umccullough  *trust me*  i've been trying : /
[20:33:35] <umccullough> i took a serious look at XUL back in ~2001/2002 as a possible development platform for cross-platform applications
[20:33:47] <AlienSoldier> stpere try to port SDLMame
[20:33:50] <umccullough> to replace a VB6 application :P
[20:34:06] <umccullough> that was when Phoenix was just becoming a usable browser :)
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[20:34:53] <mmadia> mmm, pre-pre-namechange
[20:35:07] <umccullough> I also messed with the notion that a XUL-like UI for .net apps might be neat - and then Microsoft came out with XAML instead :P
[20:35:40] <umccullough> basically, i've never gotten deep enough into it to actualy build anything, but definitely can see the benefits :)
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[20:35:49] <umccullough> and understand the concepts
[20:36:48] <AlienSoldier> i guess intel will be all over this to sell their SSE4 chip
[20:36:51] <andreasf> unfortunately the invent of XAML has made building "real" WPF apps a pain
[20:36:54] <umccullough> one of my coworkers was interested in it also - but he criticizes the fact that it's not well published, and too difficult to get started with
[20:37:36] <umccullough> XAML is a neat concept...
[20:37:52] <umccullough> but I haven't looked at the implementation very deeply - i'm still stuck in standard winforms hell
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[20:38:23] <umccullough> what we're lacking in our application is the ability for the end users/customers to change the UI on their own - XAML sorta solves that problem a bit
[20:38:34] <umccullough> at least, in theory
[20:40:42] <mmadia> i really need to try XULRunner in FF3 on a windows box.
[20:42:08] <stpere> AlienSoldier: thanks for the suggestion :)
[20:42:33] * stpere is downloading...
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[20:43:39] <AlienSoldier> and if you feel more motivated port this http://www.pcsx2.net/downloads.php :P
[20:45:00] <stpere> ouch :)
[20:48:44] <stpere> I will begin my work on the agenda
[20:48:59] * stpere expect to learn much..
[20:49:53] <andreasf> and what's on your agenda?
[20:50:27] <stpere> oh, agenda is/will be a calendar app
[20:50:30] <stpere> very simple
[20:50:35] <andreasf> ah, sorry!
[20:50:47] <stpere> just to learn Haiku app programming
[20:51:01] <stpere> queries and stuff
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[21:02:29] <CIA-50> stippi * r24945 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/plugins/xvid_decoder/ (Jamfile XvidDecoder.cpp XvidDecoder.h): (log message trimmed)
[21:02:29] <CIA-50> * Cleanup and improvements in the debug output
[21:02:29] <CIA-50> * Handles wrapping of the chunk buffer for the case that we need to read
[21:02:29] <CIA-50>  additional chunk data, but still need the data from the last chunk
[21:02:29] <CIA-50>  buffer as well.
[21:02:33] <CIA-50> * Don't skip the very first frame when calculating the timing.
[21:02:34] <CIA-50> * Includes some new code to handle seeking internally, but it is currently
[21:03:27] <xcasex> you know what's more intersting than xulrunner? prism.
[21:03:45] <mmadia> xcasex iirc, prism is an XULApplication.
[21:03:54] <xcasex> indeed it is :)
[21:03:56] <ThomHolwerda> umccullough: you're right about the early IBMs
[21:04:03] * JonathanThompson notes ThomHolwerda has a limited set of experiences with using desktop computers if he considers any PS/2 the oldest of the desktop beasts
[21:04:08] <ThomHolwerda> that ps/2 mentioned in the article was dead easy to take apart
[21:04:25] <ThomHolwerda> JonathanThompson: i didnt say it was the oldest
[21:05:54] <JonathanThompson> You did goof up on the BeBox.
[21:06:07] <ThomHolwerda> "goof up"?
[21:06:15] <JonathanThompson> You got the numbers wrong ;)
[21:06:19] <ThomHolwerda> oh where?
[21:06:25] <JonathanThompson> Speed.
[21:06:32] <JonathanThompson> One of them is wrong.
[21:06:38] <JonathanThompson> (At least)
[21:07:13] <JonathanThompson> Should have been 66 or 133 Mhz.
[21:07:44] <ThomHolwerda> heh twisted them
[21:07:46] <ThomHolwerda> already fixed
[21:07:48] <ThomHolwerda> thanks
[21:08:19] <JonathanThompson> Even if I hadn't registered those numbers previously in my mind somewhere deeply buried, that combination didn't make sense ;)
[21:08:56] <JonathanThompson> The SparcStation 20 looks much like the SparcStation 2.
[21:09:07] <JonathanThompson> I hope the 20 wasn't such a lemon as the 2 was.
[21:09:10] <ThomHolwerda> JonathanThompson: yup
[21:09:29] <umccullough> ThomHolwerda, i know - they were pretty neat
[21:14:29] <CIA-50> korli * r24946 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/arch/x86/arch_vm.cpp: disabled check for memory overlaps for the time being
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[21:21:41] <ThomHolwerda> one of our guest lecturers has asked us to read something before class.
[21:21:54] <JonathanThompson> Not any specific thing?
[21:21:54] <ThomHolwerda> she posted it on blackboard, our online learnign environment thingie
[21:22:26] <ThomHolwerda> in .doc format (which is okay) containing two scans of the original article (which is bad)
[21:22:27] <ThomHolwerda> sigh.
[21:22:37] <JonathanThompson> Scans?  Ick.
[21:22:40] <ThomHolwerda> she better be pretty.
[21:22:45] <stpere> haha
[21:22:55] <JonathanThompson> So, a .doc file that has a bitmap with the actual text?
[21:23:09] <ThomHolwerda> yup.
[21:23:24] <ThomHolwerda> makes me want to curl up in fetal position and cry
[21:23:27] <JonathanThompson> Wouldn't it be a little less complicated if she just had you look at a straight bitmap file?
[21:23:47] <ThomHolwerda> yeah, or convert it to pdf or something, every scanner comes with OCR these days
[21:23:57] <ThomHolwerda> or whatever it's called
[21:23:58] <JonathanThompson> OCR isn't always so nice.
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[21:24:41] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps I need to stop feeding in imperfect input, or get better software, but... nothing I've used is 100% able to convert.
[21:27:44] <umccullough> shit - i forgot that installing BONE would make the memory limit decrease :(
[21:28:20] <mmadia> what was it at?
[21:28:38] <umccullough> 1gb
[21:28:47] <umccullough> mmadia, do you know how to patch a BONE kernel directly?
[21:29:04] <umccullough> with the memory limiter that is
[21:29:05] <mmadia> to run on AMD or the zbeos for ram limitation?
[21:29:07] <umccullough> or is that in the boot thing
[21:29:12] <umccullough> ram limit
[21:29:14] <umccullough> it's an intel box
[21:29:37] <mmadia> eeh. on http://bootdisks.beuser.de/  you can download the zbeos directly.
[21:29:49] <umccullough> and i can just replace the one on my beos disk?
[21:29:50] <mmadia> otherwise, things get a bit more complicated.
[21:30:05] <mmadia> yup.  the kernel's are there too
[21:30:17] <mmadia> it's under the Components section.
[21:31:02] <umccullough> the funny thing is - i've been using Haiku to fix up this beos partition :D
[21:31:17] <umccullough> kinda sad when the pre-alpha OS has to be used to fix the one it's based on
[21:31:27] <mmadia> sad?!  : D
[21:31:39] <xcasex> umccullough: i'm on day five with haiku :D
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[21:32:18] <leavengood> DeadYak: I can look into the Keymap file thing in the input_server if you want
[21:32:22] <aroman> morning everyone
[21:32:34] <aroman> ooh looks like berlios is up :)
[21:32:57] <aroman> holy mother of 30 or so commits! :D
[21:33:05] <leavengood> heh
[21:33:07] <JonathanThompson> What goes up must come down ;)
[21:33:10] <stpere> hi Ryan
[21:33:11] <umccullough> xcasex, without a reboot?
[21:33:20] <stpere> hi everyone
[21:33:30] <umccullough> damn, i thought peach schnapps would taste good in iced tea...i was wrong
[21:34:31] * JonathanThompson wonders if Apple will sue Radio Shack for their stupidity
[21:35:25] <leavengood> hey stpere
[21:35:43] <stpere> how is Haiku inc going?
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[21:36:49] <leavengood> stpere: I'm not doing much on it at the moment
[21:36:52] <xcasex> umccullough: yup
[21:36:57] <TonyC_27> hi
[21:37:14] <ThomHolwerda> hi TonyC_27
[21:37:15] <xcasex> aside from the FF rendering funkyness its a nice experience
[21:37:18] <umccullough> mmadia, thanks - that seems to have worked fine :)
[21:37:21] <umccullough> i used the 768mb version
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[21:39:02] <andreasf> even with the rendering funkyness it's very nice that you can finally upload backtraces or patches from within Haiku
[21:39:10] <umccullough> yep
[21:39:27] <andreasf> starting to feel like a "real" system :-)
[21:39:32] <umccullough> almost ;)
[21:39:46] <umccullough> ok, do old net_server network drivers *not* work properly with BONE?
[21:39:57] <umccullough> cuz, Boneyard keeps crashing on me now
[21:40:08] <mmadia> that's probably just boneyard : )
[21:40:41] <Schmedly3D> umccullough: how much memory is on your video card
[21:41:04] <aroman> :( beos max just wont boot on this Dell P4 I have :(
[21:41:48] <aroman> kdl's as soon as the boot screen comes up
[21:42:37] <mmadia> aroman   enable   on-screen debugging and see what it says.
[21:42:52] <umccullough> Schmedly3D, integrated video
[21:42:59] <Schmedly3D> ah
[21:43:03] <umccullough> looks like i was able to configure this stupid driver with ifconfig
[21:43:04] <umccullough> what a PITA
[21:43:10] <umccullough> Boneyard sucks
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[21:43:20] <umccullough> yay, pings google.com now :)
[21:43:55] <Schmedly3D> what is the deal with the ram limit though, is it simply system memory + vram?
[21:44:01] <aroman> mmadia: I rebooted back in linux and checking out the code now... will try later
[21:44:50] <mmadia> Schmedly3D  the best formula i've heard of is :  http://bootdisks.beuser.de/index.php?ramAbout=show
[21:44:58] * mmadia wanders off for a while
[21:45:19] <aroman> mmm coffee :)
[21:45:36] <umccullough> aroman, i'm booting BeOS R5 Pro w/Bone on a Dell GX270 now :)
[21:45:46] <umccullough> stupid intel video and intel network card sucks my ass though
[21:45:47] <aroman> umccullough: that's the same I have :o
[21:45:58] <umccullough> aroman, are you the one from the mailing list that had problems with the gx270?
[21:46:03] <aroman> no
[21:46:05] <umccullough> oh
[21:46:06] <Schmedly3D> so if I have a 64mb video card then 1152 - 64 = 1088 and would still boot properly?
[21:46:18] <Schmedly3D> oh he wandered off for w while heh
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[21:47:09] <Wuju> hello guys
[21:47:23] <umccullough> aroman, my gx270 is a trooper - runs Haiku like a champ
[21:47:33] <Wuju> anyone here have a haiku poem?
[21:48:06] <JonathanThompson> Wuju, are you aware of what this channel is about?
[21:48:17] <umccullough> freenode isn't exactly the place to locate poetry :)
[21:48:22] *** NeoOokami has joined #haiku
[21:48:30] <Wuju> no i was bored, i came from channel list sorry
[21:48:41] <umccullough> http://haiku-os.org
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[21:48:43] <JonathanThompson> Are you an OSS OS freak?
[21:48:59] <aroman> umccullough: did you have any troubles installing beos r5?
[21:49:03] <Wuju> ill leave : (
[21:49:07] <umccullough> aroman, not R5 pro, no
[21:49:10] * JonathanThompson suspects if Wuju is truly bored, he might end up in some really odd channels by accident
[21:49:11] <umccullough> installed perfectly
[21:49:28] *** Wuju has left #haiku
[21:49:30] <JonathanThompson> If you want to discuss the OS and stuff like that, stay!
[21:49:35] <umccullough> lol
[21:49:35] <JonathanThompson> Oh well.
[21:49:39] <umccullough> you drove him away!
[21:49:56] <stpere> maybe you did, maybe you didn'T
[21:49:59] * stpere plays flute
[21:50:15] <cps1966> skin flute
[21:50:25] <JonathanThompson> I blame the fact that he's new enough to IRC and online to foolishly believe that just because something is named one thing, to not think it may have some alternate meaning, umccullough :)
[21:51:07] <JonathanThompson> I was bitten by a foolish assumption many years ago when I was researching what sort of materials to use for a personal project.
[21:51:11] *** MauriceK has quit IRC
[21:51:36] <JonathanThompson> Silly me, I thought I'd do an obvious URL with the name of the material in general, and get what I was looking for: an unbiased site about plastics.
[21:51:45] <JonathanThompson> So, I typed in plastics.com....
[21:52:24] <JonathanThompson> Needless to say, it didn't expound on all the properties of the material I was looking for!
[21:54:48] <umccullough> like whitehouse.com?
[21:55:07] <umccullough> except that actually doesn't have porn on it now
[21:55:14] <JonathanThompson> Fortunately, I would have needed to enter a credit card number to get much deeper into deep trouble ;)
[21:56:12] <TonyC_27> somebody usin' a matrox g550?
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[21:57:14] * leavengood notices that plastics.com actually is about plastics now and wonders if the change is good or bad...
[21:58:04] <DeadYak> hi leavengood
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[21:58:25] <leavengood> DeadYak: hola
[21:58:35] <DeadYak> how's it going?
[21:58:49] <CIA-50> mmlr * r24947 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/bus/usb/usb_raw.cpp:
[21:58:49] <CIA-50> Make a local copy of the passed in isochronous packet descriptors before
[21:58:49] <CIA-50> handing them over to the USB stack. Otherwise the finisher (kernel) thread
[21:58:49] <CIA-50> would have no way to fill those packets when they came from a user space
[21:58:49] <CIA-50> address range. Completely untested though.
[21:58:58] <leavengood> not bad...earlier I asked if you wanted help on the Keymap thing in input_server
[21:59:14] <DeadYak> leavengood: oh, I had a brief look at that before I ran out to do some errands
[21:59:30] <DeadYak> leavengood: input_server does indeed write it if none exists, but it does so from some hardwired default data in one of its headers
[21:59:37] <DeadYak> and I'm honestly uncertain as to what keymap that's sourced from
[21:59:42] <leavengood> hehe
[21:59:57] <leavengood> I think the input_server is in some need of refactoring
[22:00:02] <DeadYak> quite possibly
[22:00:15] <DeadYak> in any case, not a huge deal, the Keymap pref'll write the attr when you pick a new one anyways
[22:00:20] <leavengood> k
[22:00:57] <leavengood> pref'll, nice new contraction there
[22:01:09] <DeadYak> whatever :P
[22:01:16] <leavengood> hehe
[22:01:54] <DeadYak> interestingly, whatever maintenance berlios did seems to have nuked my ssh keys
[22:02:02] <DeadYak> it asks me for my pw every time now
[22:02:53] <mmlr> it also messed up the time
[22:03:09] <mmlr> it thinks it's still yesterday... filed a support ticket for that
[22:03:18] <DeadYak> anevilyak at sheep:~/ dot ssh> date
[22:03:18] <DeadYak> Sat Apr 12 16:25:15 CEST 2008
[22:03:19] <DeadYak> indeed
[22:03:23] <DeadYak> hmm
[22:03:26] <JonathanThompson> It's a new feature: time-travel check-ins!
[22:03:27] <DeadYak> authorized_keys is still there
[22:03:29] <DeadYak> what the hell
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[22:03:53] <Thom_Holwerda> 91 people? hmmm, we can attempt to pass 100 again
[22:04:01] <JonathanThompson> It's designed for people given the edict, "Get it done yesterday!" so now they can check in their code, and it is indeed, done yesterday ;)
[22:04:48] <mmlr> will probably not be handled before monday though
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[22:07:12] <andreasf> anyone know why we have __fsetlocking but not FSETLOCKING_BYCALLER, or where I might find that?
[22:07:47] <DeadYak> not off the top of my head
[22:08:04] <andreasf> appears to be some glibc thing
[22:08:40] <DeadYak> oops, that explains why my ssh key wasn't working
[22:09:12] <andreasf> hm?
[22:09:50] <DeadYak> was su'd to a different user on my local box
[22:10:35] <leavengood> DeadYak: *boink*
[22:10:36] * JonathanThompson points finger and laughs uproariously at DeadYak just because he can
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[22:10:58] <Stargater> re
[22:11:10] * JonathanThompson hopes leavengood doesn't like to boink DeadYak
[22:11:23] <andreasf> okay, would be in stdio_ext.h, which we don't seem to have
[22:11:40] <leavengood> hehe, the boink was a dunce cap being put on his head
[22:12:08] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: I'm not sure the Personal System/2 belongs in any list of "beautiful" computers :)
[22:12:25] <JonathanThompson> I was personally thinking "WTF?" on that count, too ;)
[22:12:49] * leavengood opens osnews.com
[22:12:57] * JonathanThompson notes perhaps it's a Geek Beauty measurement
[22:14:51] * leavengood considers building a H316 kitchen computer clone...
[22:14:56] <Monni> Geeks tend to watch things through bottle bottoms ;)
[22:15:16] * JonathanThompson refurbishes Monni's bottle bottoms for free
[22:15:19] <Thom_Holwerda> leavengood: that thing is cool or what? :)
[22:15:30] <Thom_Holwerda> DeadYak: i actually like its design (the ps/2)
[22:15:35] <leavengood> Thom_Holwerda: hehe
[22:15:42] <Monni> JonathanThompson: My vision is 0.7 / 0.1 so it pretty much qualifies as geek vision ;)
[22:15:50] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: it's functional, but I would by no means call it beautiful :)
[22:16:00] <Thom_Holwerda> i dunno, it has something
[22:16:01] * JonathanThompson hasn't seen that form of measurement for vision in the US
[22:16:06] <DeadYak> not to me :)
[22:16:07] <Thom_Holwerda> something that makes me find it beautiful :/
[22:16:31] <JonathanThompson> In the US, normal "ideal" vision would be 20/20 for the measurement.
[22:16:36] <JonathanThompson> (Without astigmatism)
[22:16:44] <JonathanThompson> And it'd be matched in both eyes.
[22:17:18] <JonathanThompson> I've probably never been at that vision level, though I went from far-sighted to near-sighted with age, and have astigmatism besides, and... eyes aren't matched.
[22:17:27] * JonathanThompson is lopsided
[22:17:32] <Monni> JonathanThompson: 0.8 is normal, 00 is blind
[22:18:20] <Monni> JonathanThompson: my receipt also says: L -1.50 -0.50 30 degrees R -0.50 -1.25 100 degrees ;)
[22:18:41] * JonathanThompson notes another lopsided person
[22:18:51] <Thom_Holwerda> my eyes.
[22:19:24] * JonathanThompson will never have known what "normal" health really means
[22:20:08] <JonathanThompson> I need to get new glasses and get mine examined: it's been many years.
[22:20:32] <Monni> I've had mine since 6th grade and I graduated 11 years ago ;)
[22:20:32] *** aroman has quit IRC
[22:20:43] <ToxicSoul> lol
[22:20:56] *** koki_haiku has quit IRC
[22:21:03] *** aroman has joined #haiku
[22:21:22] * ToxicSoul got his eyes examined last year because its required when you have contacts
[22:21:23] *** koki_haiku has joined #haiku
[22:21:32] <JonathanThompson> Ok, so I haven't gone that long, but... my glasses have scuff marks from where they fell off and went sledding ;)
[22:21:50] <JonathanThompson> (The glasses did, facing down, on the lenses)
[22:21:54] *** dchis has quit IRC
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[22:22:17] <mmlr> koki_haiku: how is it going over there?
[22:22:21] <DeadYak> hi koki_haiku
[22:22:29] <Thom_Holwerda> over there?
[22:22:32] <Thom_Holwerda> some conference?
[22:22:37] <Thom_Holwerda> hi koki_haiku
[22:23:29] <mmlr> Thom_Holwerda: http://www.haiku-os.org/conference/2008/lugradio_live_usa_2008
[22:23:35] <Thom_Holwerda> ah yes
[22:23:46] * Thom_Holwerda waves at the lug radio people
[22:24:46] *** {V} has quit IRC
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[22:24:53] *** {V} has joined #haiku
[22:25:03] *** aroman has joined #haiku
[22:25:37] <Monni> http://www.ladarvision.com/eyes/20-20-vision.asp ;)
[22:25:48] <Monni> bottom part ;)
[22:26:08] *** aroman has quit IRC
[22:28:00] <ToxicSoul> whoops I lied my prescription is.. -4.25
[22:28:03] *** AndrevS has quit IRC
[22:28:11] <ToxicSoul> but it doesn't say anything else on the contact box =(
[22:28:25] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett6
[22:28:28] <Technix> koki_haiku: are you doing up some kind of report to be posted later?
[22:28:59] <Technix> I want to link to it at the very least, but if you need somewhere to post it too, we'd welcome it
[22:30:14] * ToxicSoul waves to the conference from the east coast
[22:32:00] * Technix waves ToxicSoul at the west coast
[22:32:28] <Technix> :P
[22:33:18] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC
[22:34:58] <koki_haiku> Technix, most likely tomorrow
[22:36:52] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC
[22:36:52] *** Barrett6 is now known as Barrett666
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[22:44:02] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC
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[22:49:44] <Thom_Holwerda> sometimes, i wonder if osnews readers are on crack when commenting
[22:49:46] *** dr_evil has quit IRC
[22:49:46] <Thom_Holwerda> http://www.osnews.com/thread?309408
[22:49:57] <Thom_Holwerda> how can you write that in a sane mental condition?
[22:50:07] <xcasex> fanatics...
[22:54:53] <Technix> tT takes all kinds
[22:54:57] <{V}> xcasex, now are you talking about Thom or Ruahine ? :-p
[22:55:00] <Technix> s/tT/It
[22:55:17] <xcasex> {V}: hehehe i'll leave that unsaid
[22:55:24] <xcasex> time for bsg
[22:55:29] <{V}> :D
[22:55:32] <Technix> you haven't watched it yet?
[22:55:39] <{V}> xcasex, enjoy
[22:55:52] * Technix wonders if he should tell xcasex that starbuck does shoot the president. :P
[22:55:56] <Technix> oh wait.. sorry
[22:56:47] <Technix> j/k xcasex
[22:56:52] <{V}> the current season of bsg is the last one right?
[22:57:08] <Technix> season 4 is the last one, the current one showing on tv, yes.
[22:57:26] <Technix> Lost still has 2 more seasons to go and they are done as well
[22:57:41] <Technix> (after its season 4 which is showing on tv now, too)
[23:02:37] <{V}> thanks Technix
[23:02:57] *** tqh has quit IRC
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[23:09:21] <Technix> anytime
[23:10:19] <Monni> *burp*
[23:14:04] <Technix> hey Monni how goes?
[23:14:29] <Monni> quite ok... gf got her two weeks notice....
[23:14:37] <Technix> she left her job?
[23:14:40] <Technix> leaving
[23:14:50] <Monni> leaving...
[23:14:55] <umccullough> you usually give two weeks notice ;)
[23:14:57] <Technix> she's happy about it?
[23:15:08] <Technix> umccullough: depends, sometimes they give you two weeks
[23:15:18] *** wtracy has quit IRC
[23:15:19] <umccullough> exactly...that's not always good
[23:15:28] <Monni> Technix: Hasn't talked much... Paged me, but didn't want to talk about it yet...
[23:15:39] <Technix> ah, she's in that struggle place
[23:16:08] <Technix> I'm sure you and her will talk about it eventually
[23:16:37] <Thom_Holwerda> bah canada beat scotland :(
[23:16:45] <Thom_Holwerda> great stones though by canada
[23:16:47] <Thom_Holwerda> amazing stuff
[23:16:48] <Monni> she's not much of a talker... sometimes it takes two months for her to talk about delicate things...
[23:17:07] *** aroman has joined #haiku
[23:17:20] <Technix> Thom : I'm Canadian, and even we don't understand Curling. :P
[23:17:38] <umccullough> heh
[23:17:39] <Thom_Holwerda> what's not to understand
[23:17:58] <Technix> When it takes 5 beers before it makes sense, you start to wonder
[23:18:10] <Technix> Have you ever been to a brier?
[23:18:34] <Technix> It's like The Legion crossed with a Junior Hockey
[23:18:49] *** EuanK has joined #haiku
[23:18:53] <Technix> except there's uglier women.
[23:19:02] *** koki_haiku has quit IRC
[23:19:03] <Technix> and worse beer. :P
[23:19:05] <umccullough> time to power up my bewitched server again
[23:19:11] <Technix> gods, the memories... make it stop?
[23:19:24] <Thom_Holwerda> the canadian women's team that won world championships a few weeks ago had a cute one in there
[23:19:38] * Technix spent 4 years in PEI you know, one of the Curling centres of the maritimes.. shudder*
[23:20:09] *** wtracy has joined #haiku
[23:20:22] <EuanK> the scottish womans curling team is scary
[23:20:27] <EuanK> eek
[23:20:44] *** nibble has quit IRC
[23:20:51] <DeadYak> scary in terms of looks or prowess? :)
[23:20:58] <EuanK> looks
[23:21:02] <DeadYak> hahaha
[23:21:02] <EuanK> :p
[23:21:12] <mmlr> Thom_Holwerda: we swiss know about curling ;-)
[23:21:21] <EuanK> like russian olympians
[23:21:22] <aroman> berlios looks fast now... :P
[23:21:25] * DeadYak remembers seeing it on TV a lot back when he lived in Lausanne too
[23:21:27] <aroman> at least for checkout
[23:22:28] <Technix> EuanK: exactly... what IS it with Russian olypians?
[23:22:36] <Thom_Holwerda> the game is addictive (curling)
[23:22:39] <Thom_Holwerda> i used to make fun of it too
[23:22:45] <Technix> They look like they could crush you in bed
[23:22:49] <Thom_Holwerda> but somehow it managed to capture me during the last olympics
[23:23:00] <EuanK> it was special food suppliments
[23:23:09] <Technix> and yet, it'd be a sweet death? would one die with a smile on his face, I wonder?
[23:23:14] <Thom_Holwerda> like the "women" fro the ddr
[23:23:27] <Monni> too much testosterone ;)
[23:23:29] <EuanK> yeah I saw a docu about that.  very sad
[23:23:35] <EuanK> one changed sex completely
[23:23:38] <Monni> seriously hairly girls ;)
[23:23:47] *** rennj has quit IRC
[23:25:18] <Technix> the ddr? is that Dance Dance Rev?
[23:25:35] <Monni> East Germany :)
[23:25:45] <Technix> why is it called ddr?
[23:25:54] <Monni> German name for it ;)
[23:26:00] <Technix> really. cool.
[23:26:37] <Monni> Deutsche Demokratische Republik
[23:26:46] <Technix> thx man
[23:26:49] <EuanK> ironically
[23:27:27] <Technix> hey, you guys on Facebook?
[23:27:33] <EuanK> nup
[23:27:35] <Monni> yup
[23:27:37] <EuanK> bebo sadly
[23:27:42] <Technix> Monni: wanna add me?
[23:27:44] <Monni> bebo too ;)
[23:27:47] <Technix> cs.haiku at gmail dot com
[23:28:00] * Thom_Holwerda pretends he didnt just read that
[23:28:16] <Technix> you don't like FB?
[23:28:34] <Thom_Holwerda> ...and that ends the curling season
[23:28:36] <Technix> wow, he seriously doesn't like
[23:28:36] <Thom_Holwerda> darn it
[23:28:37] <EuanK> never mind irc logs will replay that address for spamers yearsfor  to come
[23:28:56] <Technix> EuanK: I'm not worried. I already get 4000+ spam a month
[23:28:57] <Monni> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=770725561
[23:29:30] <Monni> http://www.kpopwiki.com/index.php?title=User:Monni for rest of the social networking sites etc... ;)
[23:29:30] <EuanK> hehe that's why I stopped using my mindless.com email.
[23:30:32] <Monni> my e-mail has double Bayesian filter and I still get lots of spam ;)
[23:30:34] <Technix> added, Monni
[23:30:58] <Technix> I've trained Gmail pretty good now, I rarely see spam in my inbox
[23:31:25] *** mmlr has quit IRC
[23:31:40] <Monni> I get a few false positives and few false negatives... Mostly because spammers keep changing languages constantly...
[23:32:37] *** rennj has joined #haiku
[23:32:43] <Monni> Russian and Japanese spam mostly at the moment... But some English and even Finnish stuff once in a while...
[23:32:47] <Thom_Holwerda> since we're plugging stuff
[23:32:48] <Thom_Holwerda> http://digg.com/design/The_Ten_Most_Beautiful_Computers
[23:32:57] <Thom_Holwerda> digg that, its good for osn if you do.
[23:33:13] <Thom_Holwerda> i hate digg as much as the next guy, but we can get new readers via it :).
[23:33:19] <aroman> Thom_Holwerda: nice article, just read it :)
[23:33:26] <Technix> I'll digg it.
[23:33:27] <aroman> I read osn every day :)
[23:33:29] <Thom_Holwerda> you know, keep your friends close, your enemies closer, blah blah
[23:33:36] <Thom_Holwerda> aroman: good to hear :).
[23:33:40] <EuanK> yeah I started getting all sorts of sordid spam :)
[23:34:30] <EuanK> monni your not a US solider are you?
[23:35:23] <Monni> EuanK: Nah... For work for European Union... WEEE to be exact
[23:35:44] <EuanK> ah that thing noone will ever use. :)
[23:35:59] <EuanK> the dustbin is much easier ;)
[23:36:04] <Monni> lol
[23:36:34] <Monni> WEEE is fun way to get old Macs ;)
[23:36:42] <EuanK> my work has WEEE bins all around but they just get raided
[23:36:52] *** oco has quit IRC
[23:37:09] <EuanK> I found 8gb of ram in one the other day.
[23:37:18] <EuanK>   Shame it was all in 256mb dimms :D
[23:37:41] <Monni> I've built 21 full computers from all stuff I nicked from work...
[23:37:42] <{V}> could've been worse
[23:37:56] <EuanK> *recycled
[23:37:57] <{V}> could've been 4 MB edo rams
[23:38:03] <EuanK> not nicked ;)
[23:38:29] <Monni> EuanK: Raiding two trucks isn't quite recycling... atleast when you do it with Sig Sauer...
[23:38:53] <Monni> 5 minutes per truck... during boss's lunch hour ;)
[23:38:56] <{V}> going for a Beowulf cluster, Monni? :p
[23:38:59] <EuanK> sig sauer?
[23:39:18] <xcasex> hey umccullough how did the ipro compile go?
[23:39:42] <Monni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sig_Sauer
[23:39:47] <{V}> sig sauer, isn't that some type of gun?
[23:41:05] <Monni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_P226#P228 is the exact model...
[23:41:14] <Monni> nice and small...
[23:41:45] <aroman> hmm now the build tools fail to build on linux... :(
[23:41:51] <EuanK> ah so your an armed robber! nice!  good pay?
[23:42:00] <Monni> mine is modded for 25 rounds at 12-20 grams
[23:42:10] *** NeoOokami has quit IRC
[23:42:16] <Monni> EuanK: Security
[23:42:34] <EuanK> not anti-security?
[23:42:50] <{V}> .40 bullets aren't really small, are they?
[23:43:07] <Monni> EuanK: Well... It depends on which side you are...
[23:43:11] <EuanK> hehe
[23:43:58] <Monni> EuanK: Some things are pretty borderline, but in the end I would get fired like my gf if I would try something stupid...
[23:44:07] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[23:44:22] * Technix reminds himself never to piss Monni off.
[23:44:23] <{V}> like robbing your boss with that sig ?
[23:45:12] *** duaneb has joined #haiku
[23:45:19] <Monni> {V}: For that I have heavier equipment... like peacekeepers ;)
[23:45:56] <{V}> I don't know what that is, but sounds nasty :)
[23:46:17] <Monni> {V}: Pretty much like baseball bat but a lot larger and heavier ;)
[23:46:28] <{V}> ouch
[23:46:43] <duaneb> leavengood, uploading .git.tgz file now
[23:46:50] <duaneb> just the head, mind you
[23:46:58] <ari-free> peacekeepers are nuclear weapons
[23:47:13] <Monni> heavy-duty ones are made of aluminium but classic ones are wooden like "normal" baseball bats...
[23:47:43] <{V}> ari-free, or are those peacemakers?
[23:48:00] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku
[23:48:19] * aroman notes that makeinfo is needed for gcc-2.95.3 as well as for gcc-4
[23:48:20] <ari-free> well the point is that they shouldn't need to be used
[23:48:36] * {V} wonders what kind of weapon would be considered a peacedisturber
[23:48:40] <umccullough> xcasex, i compiled it for R5, then ended up installing BONE
[23:48:57] <ari-free> a boxcutter on a plane
[23:49:23] <Technix> apparently
[23:49:31] <Technix> cause you know, boxcutters have amazing range
[23:49:32] *** mats| has quit IRC
[23:49:34] <Monni> feline cutter is pretty good peacedisturber...
[23:49:44] <umccullough> a kid with a loud stereo in his car is a peacedisturber
[23:49:54] <Technix> I hate those little shits
[23:50:07] <Technix> they always have the worst looking car too
[23:50:17] <ari-free> you still have those? are we still in the 80's?
[23:50:17] <MichaelHenry> lol
[23:50:21] <umccullough> heh, a rotted old hundai or something
[23:50:24] *** Euver has joined #haiku
[23:50:33] <Monni> Hyundai ;)
[23:50:36] <MichaelHenry> comino?
[23:50:36] <umccullough> hyundai
[23:50:37] <umccullough> yes
[23:50:45] <Technix> granted in Alberta, most of the vehicles here are 1995+
[23:50:46] <{V}> Monni, speaking of felines... how's your namesake?
[23:50:52] <MichaelHenry> with a camper shell
[23:51:00] <umccullough> el camino?
[23:51:02] <Monni> {V}: Still alive, 13 years old soon
[23:51:11] <{V}> wow!
[23:51:11] <MichaelHenry> yeah that's it
[23:51:20] <Technix> aw, you going to post his bday pictures on fb?
[23:51:24] <Monni> {V}: How's your Dutch? Still dislike it ;)
[23:51:29] <Technix> 13 years is a long time.. wow
[23:52:03] <Monni> 14 years is average for cats
[23:53:12] <{V}> Monni, a little bit, yes :)
[23:53:34] *** emitrax has quit IRC
[23:54:11] <Monni> {V}: Some things don't change, eh...
[23:54:50] * JonathanThompson noes ari-free fell into a self-ignored logic trap on OS News
[23:54:58] <ari-free> uh oh
[23:55:03] <ari-free> what did i do this time
[23:55:04] <Technix> well that's not good
[23:55:16] <JonathanThompson> Yes: someone else needs to impose the logic-trap ;)
[23:55:24] *** _Megaf is now known as Megaf_
[23:55:28] <Technix> Circular Logic 4tw!
[23:55:41] <Technix> JonathanThompson: how are you today?
[23:55:43] <JonathanThompson> evangs called you out on the thread where you agreed that iMacs were toys :D
[23:55:52] <JonathanThompson> Frustrated, stressed, about to kill something, perhaps.
[23:55:56] <JonathanThompson> Does that answer your question?
[23:55:57] <Technix> cool, cool
[23:56:00] <Technix> :P
[23:56:01] <ari-free> but iMacs are toys
[23:56:07] <Technix> iMacs are not toys
[23:56:12] <Monni> all computers are toys ;)
[23:56:14] <JonathanThompson>  M R ducks
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[23:56:22] <ari-free> powrmacs are real computers
[23:56:31] <Technix> JonathanThompson: did you do somethinking on our conversation?
[23:56:44] <Monni> I wonder where my PowerMac is... must be somewhere at work...
[23:56:48] <JonathanThompson> I've thought about it.... but haven't queried the listings.
[23:56:58] <Technix> ari-free: you do realize that today's iMac has as much horsepower as the first PowerMac?
[23:57:05] *** Wiss has quit IRC
[23:57:16] <Technix> JonathanThompson: as long as you understand what I was trying to get at, I'm all good. :P
[23:57:21] *** Wiss has joined #haiku
[23:58:02] <ari-free> I'm sure a fisher price laptop also has more horsepower than than first powermac
[23:58:14] <JonathanThompson> Right now, I'm feeling the stress of too many unknowns in too short of a time compounded by stupid resource limitations.
[23:58:28] <ari-free> but you can't open up an imac and make it meet your needs
[23:58:30] <Technix> so therefore, iMacs are not toys, when it was once considered that a Power Mac was truly that, a POWER Mac.
[23:58:36] <JonathanThompson> No, anything they'd sell that's fischer-price isn't nearly that powerful.
[23:58:38] *** tradewind has quit IRC
[23:58:43] <ari-free> the monitor is built in
[23:58:48] <Technix> ari-free: so what?
[23:58:55] <Technix> do you take apart your calculator?
[23:58:58] <JonathanThompson> Laptops are the same way.
[23:58:58] <ari-free> so? it's not very flexible
[23:58:58] <umccullough> monitor is built-in to most laptops too...
[23:58:59] <Technix> do you take apart your VCR?
[23:59:06] <JonathanThompson> All laptops I've seen...
[23:59:06] <Technix> do you take apart your printer?
[23:59:14] <JonathanThompson> (Except perhaps the Apple 2c)
[23:59:15] <Technix> heck, do you take apart your laptop?
[23:59:23] <ari-free> but laptops don't pretend to be be pc's
[23:59:26] <Technix> iMacs have shifted the paradigm (FINALLY)
[23:59:27] <umccullough> Technix, i do :)
[23:59:30] <JonathanThompson> WTF????
[23:59:31] <Technix> umccullough: shh
[23:59:43] <Technix> ari-free: you're missing the point, entirely, of computers
[23:59:44] <umccullough> ari-free, laptops do pretend to be PCs...every day
[23:59:47] <ari-free> a pc is something you can personalize
[23:59:50] <Technix> no
[23:59:51] <umccullough> what?
[23:59:55] <{V}> I've taken apart, my calculator, a vcr, my laptop, but I've never taken aprat a printer
[23:59:58] <ari-free> hence the term personal computer

   April 13, 2008  
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