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[00:00:37] <Kokito> ari-free, Haiku already had a presence at LW last year. Michael Phipps gave a BoF (to three people though).
[00:01:40] <ari-free> by august you'll get a lot more than what you've had at scale
[00:02:14] <ari-free> a lot of people remember Be
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[00:04:47] <ari-free> same with Amiga
[00:04:57] <ari-free> there's still a community
[00:05:10] <mmu_man> Kokito it only supports 1 device for now
[00:05:12] <Thom_Holwerda> amiga a community?
[00:05:22] <mmu_man> what's the usb id ?
[00:05:35] <Thom_Holwerda> you dont spend a lot of time in the amiga world do you
[00:05:36] <Kokito> mmu_man, hold on
[00:05:38] <Begasus> yeah .. amiga.be ... they still have monthly meetings IIRC
[00:05:50] <Kokito> we'll see ari-free. we still don't know if we'll get a booth/BoF slot.
[00:05:51] <ari-free> but there is a 'world'
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[00:06:14] <Thom_Holwerda> let's just say that the UN should send a peace keeping force in there
[00:06:30] <ari-free> they have every reason to be frustrated but they aren't lovin windows either
[00:06:50] <Hummin> what type of threads does haiku support?
[00:07:01] <Thom_Holwerda> they are killing one another because they are whiny little bitches, instead of just getting off their asses and doing something about it
[00:07:02] <mmu_man> threads :p
[00:07:08] <Thom_Holwerda>  /end rant
[00:07:10] <Hummin> api-wize
[00:07:11] <DeadYak> "type"?
[00:07:18] <DeadYak> BeOS native threads and pthreads.
[00:07:25] <DeadYak> though they map to the same kernel constructs
[00:07:26] <Hummin> oh, goodie
[00:07:31] <mmu_man> pthread support isn't finished yet
[00:07:33] <DeadYak> and that
[00:07:34] <Hummin> yeah.. I guessed that much
[00:07:42] <Hummin> mmu_man: damn
[00:07:54] <Hummin> does good ol beos have that ?
[00:08:08] <ari-free> well thom if they would look at haiku, maybe they would be more productive
[00:08:10] <Hummin> I ofcourse, want to port some stuff
[00:08:28] <mmu_man> Hummin there are partially working pthread libs, none finished
[00:09:07] <Hummin> hmmm alright.. I guess I'll just give it a try
[00:09:31] <Begasus> speaking off ... mmu_man do you have a zip for the full oss port? (including headers?)
[00:09:49] <mmu_man> depending what you want to port it might be simpler to add a few native wrapper for threadding
[00:09:59] <mmu_man> usually i'ts just something to spawn a thread and do some locking
[00:10:12] <Begasus> openal is deppending on also or oss for the moment as a backend
[00:10:20] <Begasus> alsa*
[00:10:36] <Hummin> yeah.. I'm pretty sure that it won't just compile-and-run
[00:10:37] <mmu_man> Begasus hmm no there is a patch in http://revolf.free.fr/beos/patches
[00:10:46] <DeadYak> Begasus: the better approach might be a media kit backend for OpenAL
[00:10:49] <Hummin> I wanna bang my head against mono, eventually
[00:10:56] <Hummin> I just remembered that they required pthreads
[00:11:05] <Hummin> but they require a shitload of other stuff too
[00:11:06] <mmu_man> Begasus the OSS port is not to use apps with
[00:11:35] <mmu_man> and I don't intend on making an oss fake driver to route apps back to the media kit
[00:11:41] <mmu_man> though it should be possible
[00:12:41] <Begasus> maybe I should get the guy from openal soft to write a backend for Haiku's media kit ... ;)
[00:12:50] <Begasus> nah .... probly not ...
[00:12:52] <Hummin> hey.. the font-rendringering is pretty dope
[00:13:02] <Hummin> but there are graphical glitches all over the place
[00:13:27] <Hummin> you're using agg for vectors, right?
[00:14:02] <DeadYak> agg's used as a rasterizer for pretty much everything afaik
[00:14:07] <DeadYak> font rendering's handled by freetype
[00:14:12] <Hummin> through agg?
[00:14:21] <DeadYak> yeah
[00:14:46] <DeadYak> there was a discussion on the dev list a few days ago with respect to the app_server's rendering path due to the subpixel GSoC project
[00:14:51] <DeadYak> may want to look at that if you're curious
[00:15:12] <Hummin> don't agg support that already?
[00:15:18] <DeadYak> yes but it's not currently enabled
[00:15:29] <Hummin> wouldn't that slow stuff down ?
[00:15:35] <DeadYak> depends
[00:15:50] <Hummin> well. if it's using floating point calculations
[00:15:51] <Hummin> stil
[00:16:01] <DeadYak> it uses those anyhow afaik
[00:16:09] <Hummin> it's been ages since I had a look at that template-fettish code
[00:16:14] <Hummin> but I've used agg before
[00:17:32] <Hummin> but like now.. there are 2 pixels missing at the top on the second right-hand scrollbar here in vision, and the scrollbars on the window and notify list that are disabled have a missing right edge (1px)
[00:17:46] <Hummin> and I'm pretty sure it's not caused by agg
[00:18:40] <Hummin> but haiku feels pretty stable now though
[00:18:50] <Hummin> I'll give it a shot to use as a development platform
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[00:24:55] <mmu_man> LOL nice new logo! http://lxr.linux.no/
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[00:30:37] <bogomipz> haha, and with a matching favicon too!
[00:33:58] <ari-free> i love favicons
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[00:41:32] <Hummin> anyone know if vmware player in linux 64bit will behave differently than the 32bit version ?
[00:41:44] <Hummin> cause I can't seem to start the haiku vmware image
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[01:03:43] <DeadYak> mmu_man: that logo is awesome :D
[01:04:29] <Begasus> looks like something from fish and filets ;)
[01:04:44] <Begasus> atleast reminds me 'bout it ....
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[01:29:48] <CIA-50> mmu_man * r24899 /haiku/trunk/headers/os/drivers/tty/ (. ttylayer.h): start of a header for a beos compatible tty module.
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[01:30:54] <[Katisu]> yay
[01:33:28] <Begasus> mmu_man, .... missing semaphore.h also ;)
[01:33:51] <Begasus> time to go down here
[01:33:54] <Begasus> g'night peeps
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[01:41:42] <ncboy> I am trying to mount a USB drive on Haiku (revision 24856) but cannot get the drive to mount.  I was able to get it to mount under revision 24782 (with some work).
[01:43:06] <ncboy> it's not giving a filesystem or volume name.  how do I get a name on the drive for Haiku to recognize it?  anyone have any ideas?
[01:43:14] <DeadYak> ncboy: is it FAT formatted?
[01:43:43] <ncboy> yes.  however it doesn't recogize that either
[01:43:53] <DeadYak> non-BFS filesystem support is temporarily broken due to a VFS rewrite
[01:44:00] <DeadYak> that should be fixed in the next few days hopefully
[01:44:12] <ncboy> Thanks for your help
[01:44:15] <DeadYak> np
[01:44:19] <DeadYak> sorry :)
[01:44:43] <ncboy> no problem.  I was excited to get it working but then was very puzzled when it didn't work anymore
[01:44:48] <DeadYak> yeah
[01:45:00] <ncboy> I'm just excited to see some advancement on USB  :)
[01:45:03] <DeadYak> Ingo's reworking the VFS API a bit
[01:45:11] <DeadYak> so until he's done with that he's got the other modules disabled
[01:45:17] <DeadYak> once it's finalized he'll adapt the rest to it
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[01:45:57] * DeadYak pets koki_haiku
[01:46:02] <DeadYak> I'm going to assume kb/mouse work now :)
[01:47:07] <koki_haiku> yes:)
[01:47:09] <DeadYak> yay
[01:47:17] <DeadYak> wonder what was wrong with the other one
[01:47:27] <mmadia> trying to read foreign languages hurts my head : P
[01:47:35] <DeadYak> mmadia: such as?
[01:47:38] <mmadia> ( http://www.haiku-os.it/node/268  )
[01:47:41] <DeadYak> oh
[01:47:43] <mmadia> italian
[01:48:13] <mmadia> some things are just close enough to throw a real wrench in my brain : )
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[01:49:35] <DeadYak> hmm
[01:49:38] <DeadYak> Kokito: what happened?
[01:50:12] <Kokito> I get no sound
[01:50:28] <Kokito> and when I try to restart the media server, haiku kdls
[01:50:43] <DeadYak> what audio chipset?
[01:50:50] <DeadYak> sounds like the native and OSS driver might've collided there
[01:51:45] <Kokito> DeadYak, actually, from what the media pref app shows, this build is the same as the one I had from dhowett
[01:52:26] <DeadYak> Kokito: should be yeah
[01:52:36] <DeadYak> Kokito: that same kind of thing happens to me if I have both native and opensound loaded for my chips though
[01:52:39] <Kokito> let me try a few things
[01:59:11] <Kokito> I was able to switch it to the aiuch driver, and now I get sound, but with the usual crackling. :)
[02:00:55] <DeadYak> not sure...I just told it to include mmu's opensound package, no special tweaks otherwise :/
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[02:10:54] <Kokito> DeadYak, don't worry. I have a plan B. :)
[02:11:52] * [Katisu] wonders if Kokito is going to write a new driver
[02:12:09] <DeadYak> what's that?
[02:12:30] <[Katisu]> or is that Plan C.?
[02:12:50] <[Katisu]> ;)
[02:12:50] <Kokito> sound and video work very well on my little cube desktop; I will just use that for media demos.
[02:12:59] <DeadYak> Kokito: ah
[02:13:05] <DeadYak> Kokito: the build works fine otherwise? queries, etc?
[02:13:10] <Kokito> yep
[02:13:13] <DeadYak> k, good
[02:17:33] * Kokito wonders if there is a safe way to remove OSS
[02:18:06] <DeadYak> Kokito: should be able to just remove the media-addon
[02:18:21] <Kokito> where would that be?
[02:18:30] <DeadYak> Kokito: one moment, looking at the zip
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[02:18:49] <mmu_man> Kokito remove the oss_loader binary
[02:18:53] * [Katisu] needs to find the script he wrote
[02:18:54] <DeadYak> mmu_man: thanks :)
[02:18:57] <mmu_man> it won't be used at all
[02:19:34] <Kokito> thanks mmu_man :)
[02:22:31] <Kokito> that did it :)
[02:26:14] <[Katisu]> does sound work under qemu?
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[02:28:53] <[Katisu]> or more specifically, does the es1370 driver work?
[02:28:56] <mmu_man> [Katisu] never got it to work
[02:29:48] <[Katisu]> ok, I was wondering
[02:30:05] <[Katisu]> first of all I don't like the fact he has it classified as AC'97
[02:30:27] <[Katisu]> es1370 wasn't ac97
[02:30:47] <[Katisu]> es1371, es1373, etc were
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[02:31:43] <[Katisu]> well "are" that is
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[02:44:50] <umccullough_work> [Katisu], i think es1370 was actually an ISA chip
[02:45:03] <umccullough_work> whereas es1371 was PCI - but i'm probably wrong :)
[02:45:24] <umccullough_work> as usual
[02:45:30] <[Katisu]> You are wrong
[02:45:40] <umccullough_work> as expected
[02:45:49] <[Katisu]> "The AudioPCI ES1370 is a PCI bus master and slave device ...."
[02:46:52] <umccullough_work> likely i'm thinking of an entirely different chip
[02:47:04] * Kokito is copying haiku to his USB stick
[02:47:08] <umccullough_work> nice
[02:47:14] <[Katisu]> maybe ESS
[02:47:17] <umccullough_work> perhaps
[02:47:22] <umccullough_work> they have very similar numbers
[02:47:40] <umccullough_work> Kokito, you feeling good about this weekend?
[02:47:50] <umccullough_work> or...dreading it? ;)
[02:48:12] <Kokito> feeling good umccullough_work :)
[02:48:17] <umccullough_work> that's good
[02:48:24] <umccullough_work> Haiku running as expected for the most part now?
[02:48:37] <Kokito> sort of, yes
[02:50:12] <umccullough_work> looks like I'll probably be working this weekend :(
[02:50:45] <Kokito> that's OK umccullough_work :)
[02:50:45] <umccullough_work> i assume LUGRadio will have a live internet broadcast feed?
[02:50:56] <Kokito> I think so
[02:51:11] <umccullough_work> send us a link if you can - I'd like to try and listen in/watch
[02:53:46] <Kokito> I still need to find out
[02:53:59] <Kokito> I will try to be on IRC during the show though
[02:54:07] * [Katisu] wonders if he could book a flight out
[02:54:20] <[Katisu]> think American Airlines has any openings
[02:55:41] <[Katisu]> btw. any news on Waltercon yet?
[02:56:14] * Kokito hides
[02:56:58] * [Katisu] wonders if that is in response to Waltercon or the previous statements.
[03:01:29] <umccullough_work> Waltercon.... a topic not worth discussing :)
[03:01:48] <[Katisu]> pretty much dead huh
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[03:02:08] <umccullough_work> at the moment, nobody seems to have time to arrange it
[03:02:15] <umccullough_work> or motivation
[03:02:26] <umccullough_work> but anyway...
[03:02:31] <[Katisu]> maybe should discuss status of Haiku Inc.
[03:02:55] <umccullough_work> no comment
[03:03:08] <[Katisu]> <-troublemaker
[03:04:05] <umccullough_work> i think i'm gonna go home early tonight and hook up my new 24" display :)
[03:04:19] <[Katisu]> 1900x1200?
[03:04:28] <umccullough_work> 1920x1200 yeah
[03:04:29] <Kokito> waltercon needs to migrate from a client-server config to a peer-to-peer configuration
[03:05:10] <[Katisu]> multiple peer-peer?
[03:05:24] <Kokito> what's the difference?
[03:05:32] <[Katisu]> more than one location
[03:05:57] <Kokito> hmmm... that's not what I meant
[03:06:19] <[Katisu]> well, that's why I was asking :P
[03:06:22] <umccullough_work> the server needs to be "nominated" :)
[03:06:40] <umccullough_work> sort of a peer election process
[03:06:41] <Kokito> look at it as a potluck as opposed to a restaurant where people can come and expect to be served :)
[03:06:50] <umccullough_work> yeah, that works
[03:07:04] <umccullough_work> i'll bring the beer ;)
[03:07:08] <Kokito> hehe
[03:07:09] <umccullough_work> and drink it all too
[03:07:09] <[Katisu]> oh, you aren't just meaning planning
[03:07:15] <[Katisu]> execution as well
[03:08:15] <umccullough_work> maybe PA would be a good location for a WalterCon ;)
[03:08:18] <[Katisu]> well, sounds like you have high expections of what to go on
[03:08:33] <Kokito> planning is fairly easy; actually making it happen is the hard part
[03:08:48] <[Katisu]> cow-tipping anyone?
[03:09:11] <Kokito> I have considerably lowered my expectations lately :)
[03:09:24] * [Katisu] doubts that
[03:09:31] <umccullough_work> cow tipping does sound fun...i've never tried it
[03:09:52] <Kokito> [Katisu], because of my rantings on the haiku-web list? :P
[03:09:54] <[Katisu]> actually, can't say I have either
[03:10:07] <[Katisu]> you aren't the only one :P
[03:10:34] <Kokito> yeah, sometimes you get unexpected allies ;)
[03:11:46] <[Katisu]> although you may have noticed, I haven't stoked the flames lately :P
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[03:12:18] <umccullough_work> all right - i'm outta here - ttyl
[03:12:24] <Kokito> I have noticed :)
[03:12:31] <umccullough_work> maybe i'll look at pkgsrc tonight :)
[03:12:41] <Kokito> drive safe umccullough_work
[03:12:48] <absabs> hi Kokito
[03:12:48] * [Katisu] laughs
[03:12:57] <Kokito> hey absabs
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[03:17:08] <koki_haiku> my goodness, I have access to my old yT data on a USB drive!
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[03:17:32] * [Katisu] note koki_haiku is now corrupted
[03:18:28] <koki_haiku> so far, so good
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[03:23:36] <rennj> hell yeah
[03:24:00] <rennj> i was right
[03:24:13] <rennj> gnu bc 1.05 was lame
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[03:24:28] <rennj> gnu bc 1.06 on beos is much faster
[03:25:00] <rennj> it should be even better on haiku
[03:25:14] <Kokito> hmmm.... the Haiku installer copies everything in the source volume, not just the system files... oh well
[03:25:51] <rennj> its just like openssl speed
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[03:26:06] <rennj> all my vmware machines should do the same benchmark really
[03:26:09] <rennj> and they do
[03:26:16] <rennj> cpu test
[03:26:46] <rennj> time echo "scale=5000; 4*a(1)" | bc -l
[03:27:18] <rennj> now if i had openssl on beos
[03:27:22] <rennj> i would just use that
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[03:35:16] <the_ringmaster> hi haiku guys
[03:36:06] <Kokito> hey the_ringmaster
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[03:47:00] * mmadia just sent his application for the local #3 electrical union
[03:47:11] <mmadia> eeerr, sealed : )
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[04:25:33] <umccullough> yay giant monitors :)
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[04:32:33] <geist> yes, giant monitors are great
[04:34:00] <umccullough> i think this one will ultimately end up going to my wife
[04:34:11] <umccullough> i'm already somewhat disappointed :/
[04:34:15] <geist> :(
[04:34:29] <geist> you get used to even the largest of monitors pretty quickly
[04:34:29] <umccullough> i thought 1920x1200 would be enough
[04:34:34] <umccullough> i was wrong
[04:34:49] <geist> nope 2560x1600 is where it's at
[04:35:02] <umccullough> granted, no worse than what i had really - i was running my 21 at 1600x1200 anyway
[04:35:38] <umccullough> glad i only dumped $400 on this one to find out i needed more ;)
[04:35:49] <geist> get a 30" I highly recommend
[04:35:52] <umccullough> i think i will
[04:36:01] <umccullough> you've talked me into it
[04:36:09] <geist> the dell is a fine monitor
[04:36:25] <umccullough> yeah, guy i know got one and loves it
[04:37:47] <mmadia> what's the part or model on that geist?   i'm in the mood to drool  : )
[04:38:38] <umccullough> just go to dell's site and look :)
[04:39:17] <umccullough> at least my physical desk has a ton more realestate now
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[04:42:54] <umccullough> damn, now i need a new keyboard and mouse :)
[04:45:58] <MichaelHenry> hey mind if i ask a quick question?
[04:47:23] <MichaelHenry> Has anyone ever compiled cdrtools before?
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[05:23:55] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24900 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/shared/syscall_utils.h:
[05:23:55] <CIA-50> Finally decided to put the often copied RETURN_AND_SET_ERRNO() macro
[05:23:55] <CIA-50> into a header. This version instantiates the given argument only once.
[05:25:57] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24901 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/libroot/time/private.h:
[05:25:57] <CIA-50> Define HAVE_STDINT_H unconditionally. We have it, and some header
[05:25:57] <CIA-50> modification seemed to have caused the macro not to get defined anymore.
[05:27:55] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24902 /haiku/trunk/headers/posix/sys/socket.h:
[05:27:55] <CIA-50> Changed the type of msghdr::{msg_name,msg_control} to void* as dictated
[05:27:55] <CIA-50> by POSIX.
[05:29:45] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24903 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/kernel/syscall_restart.h:
[05:29:45] <CIA-50> Added two helper classes for dealing with restarts of ioctl() like
[05:29:45] <CIA-50> syscalls.
[05:30:27] <umccullough> there he goes again :P
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[05:32:47] <DocPheniX> so whats the word on xen in haiku?
[05:32:48] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24904 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/fd.cpp:
[05:32:48] <CIA-50> * Fixed some checks for user addresses. IS_KERNEL_ADDRESS is not the
[05:32:48] <CIA-50>  same as !IS_USER_ADDRESS.
[05:32:48] <CIA-50> * Use the new IoctlSyscallFlagUnsetter helper class in _kern_ioctl().
[05:32:48] <CIA-50>  The former implementation wasn't checking correctly for a previous
[05:32:48] <CIA-50>  syscall flag.
[05:33:39] <umccullough> i've never heard a word about xen in haiku
[05:34:01] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24905 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/kernel/fs/fd.h: Preparation for socket file descriptors.
[05:35:01] <DocPheniX> :s
[05:35:17] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24906 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp: Resolved TODO: We can check for sockets, now.
[05:36:01] <DocPheniX> xen would be great in haiku
[05:36:24] <DocPheniX> the other os i watch (reactos) is implementing xen
[05:36:37] <DocPheniX> being able to run them side by side would be nice
[05:37:08] <umccullough> i think Haiku has a ways to go before that becomes a priority
[05:37:21] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24907 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/syscalls.cpp: Removed unused _kern_socket() dummy.
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[05:45:21] <Technix> gods, bonefish is a machine
[05:45:40] <DocPheniX> :P
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[05:51:17] <umccullough> yes, most definitely he is :P
[05:51:35] <umccullough> although, i get the impression he saves up all his work during the day and commits it all at once :P
[05:51:44] <umccullough> but still...
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[05:55:13] <koki_haiku> DHowett!!
[05:55:20] <DHowett> koki_haiku!
[05:55:55] <koki_haiku> DHowett, unfortunately, your build did not work :)
[05:56:04] <DHowett> Whaaa~t? IN what way
[05:56:17] <koki_haiku> no keyboard, no mouse
[05:56:27] <koki_haiku> so could not do much with it :)
[05:56:56] <DHowett> hmm, hold on ...
[05:58:28] <DHowett> PS/2 keyboard and mouse? Maybe the recent changes to USB broke it
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[05:58:46] <koki_haiku> don't know
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[05:59:22] <koki_haiku> DeadYak made a build for me (with the latest rev) and it worked. But it lacks the DHowett magic :)
[05:59:31] <DHowett> hehe
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[05:59:58] <koki_haiku> so the sounds crackles and video drops frames if I move the mouse around
[06:00:25] <umccullough> what's the DHowett magic exactly? ;)
[06:00:44] <umccullough> i.e. exactly does he do differently
[06:00:49] <umccullough> *what*
[06:00:51] <DHowett> The only thing different from a normal image (apart from OpenSound  and all the other optionals) was the presence of <usb>ohci.. I'm imagining DeadYak's build lacks ohci
[06:01:02] <DHowett> Maybe it's that i include ResEdit in the applications ;)
[06:01:03] <DHowett> kidding :P
[06:01:11] <koki_haiku> hehe
[06:01:14] <umccullough> I can try making an image I suppose...
[06:01:17] <DHowett> oh, wait..
[06:01:22] <umccullough> i'm just redoing my haiku machine though :/
[06:01:29] <DHowett> r24894 : A few more things to get the USB stack working under BeOS again.
[06:01:33] <geist> koki_haiku: you tryin to put together a good build for the show on saturday?
[06:01:34] <DHowett> oh, beOS. Bah. pfft.
[06:01:43] <koki_haiku> geist, yes
[06:02:44] <umccullough> DHowett, paste your UserBuildConfig somewheres so I can see what you've got :)
[06:03:00] * ari-free back
[06:03:22] <DHowett> umccullough: It's nothing special.. might as well paste it here; it's only two lines.. HAIKU_IMAGE_SIZE        = 1023 ; HAIKU_ADD_ALL_OPTIONAL_PACKAGES = 1 ;
[06:03:38] <umccullough> oh, you said you added ohci
[06:03:49] <umccullough> maybe an svn diff would be more useful then ;)
[06:04:09] <ari-free> hey umc...did you ever get a chance to look into that pkgsrc coverity stuff?
[06:04:21] <umccullough> ari-free, since last night? no
[06:04:30] <DHowett> Ah. Just put <usb>ohci with <usb>ehci and <usb>uhci in build/jam/HaikuImage -- but I removed that for this build
[06:04:35] <umccullough> i did stay at work until 10pm last night -- so i was a bit burnt
[06:04:48] <umccullough> DHowett, you can add that to your UserBuildConfig also
[06:04:57] <umccullough> to keep things clean
[06:05:00] <ari-free> that is late
[06:05:03] <DHowett> Really? O.o
[06:05:18] <umccullough> yeah... let me see - i'll tell you how
[06:05:20] <umccullough> brb
[06:05:26] <DHowett> I imagine they're not lines just like those in HaikuImage, then
[06:05:28] <DHowett> hehe
[06:05:35] <umccullough> sorta
[06:05:44] <umccullough> except the HaikuImage puts everything in variables first
[06:05:52] <umccullough> so, you just gotta call the rule directly instead
[06:05:59] <umccullough> it's rather simple actually
[06:06:08] <umccullough> i'm looking it up
[06:06:14] <umccullough> using a browser :/
[06:06:49] <umccullough> oh, its REALLY easy!
[06:07:26] <umccullough> just put this in your UserBuildConfig:
[06:07:27] <umccullough> AddFilesToHaikuImage beos system add-ons kernel busses usb : <usb>ohci ;
[06:07:35] <umccullough> that's it :)
[06:07:47] <DHowett> Oh. So yes, that thing i said above. they -are- just like the lines in HaikuImage
[06:07:48] <DHowett> thanks! :)
[06:07:53] <umccullough> yep
[06:08:02] <umccullough> sometimes it's a little more complicated
[06:08:14] <umccullough> some drivers have multiple files involved - like video drivers
[06:08:25] <umccullough> and you gotta put stuff in multiple places
[06:08:41] <DHowett> I also had lines in HaikuImage (commented for koki's build) to add files from an 'extra' folder to the extra folder in /boot/home for testing purposes
[06:08:42] <DHowett> *nods*
[06:08:56] <DHowett> so a few control-Ks and a control-U will suffice (nano shortcuts ;))
[06:09:24] <DHowett> koki_haiku: care to try my build of 24907? ^^
[06:10:36] <umccullough> yeah, my builds usually include a few zipfiles i keep around
[06:10:41] <umccullough> with extra stuff in them ;)
[06:10:52] <umccullough> like some videos and mp3s
[06:11:09] <umccullough> although, i haven't been installing those directly lately due to the time it takes to unzip that crap at build time :/
[06:11:39] <umccullough> just finished installing xubuntu again on my haiku test box
[06:11:53] <DHowett> my latest endeavour was icon editing. That.. that didn't go over so well. Bah.
[06:11:54] <DHowett> hehe
[06:12:28] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24908 /haiku/trunk/ (17 files in 7 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[06:12:28] <CIA-50> * Changed the way the socket functions work:
[06:12:28] <CIA-50>  - The net_stack driver is no longer used. Instead we have a kernel
[06:12:28] <CIA-50>  module which is directly used by syscall implementations in the
[06:12:28] <CIA-50>  kernel. I.e. we no longer tunnel those functions through ioctls, but
[06:12:31] <CIA-50>  have normal syscalls.
[06:12:33] <CIA-50>  - Removed the superfluous net starter module.
[06:12:58] <umccullough> yeah, i'm not patient or artistic enough for that stuff ;)
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[06:13:18] <koki_haiku> DHowett, sure. URL?
[06:13:32] <DHowett> koki_haiku: http://dhowett.rh.rit.edu/~dustin/haiku
[06:13:56] <koki_haiku> can you give me the exact URL, so that I can wget it?
[06:14:17] <DHowett> http://dhowett.rh.rit.edu/~dustin/haiku/haiku+opt.r24907.zip
[06:14:18] <DHowett> ^^
[06:14:21] <koki_haiku> nevermind
[06:14:23] <koki_haiku> I gotit
[06:14:24] <umccullough> lol
[06:14:29] <DHowett> alright :P
[06:15:11] <umccullough> DHowett, really, you shouldn't bother responding to luposian :)
[06:15:40] <umccullough> and i always press the space while the bios screen is up
[06:15:44] <umccullough> seems to work best
[06:15:51] <DHowett> I know >< actually, when i came into this channel tonight, I was going to ask why i even bothered..
[06:15:52] <DHowett> hehe
[06:15:53] <umccullough> loads it into the buffer ;)
[06:15:57] <DHowett> yep
[06:16:07] <DHowett> I press it after GRUB, since i triple-boot ><
[06:16:14] <umccullough> yeah, same here
[06:16:22] <umccullough> makes it easy :)
[06:16:33] <DHowett> I get some bizarre output in my syslog [linux] when i build haiku-image.. o.O
[06:16:39] <DHowett> ioctl32(bfs_shell:4269): Unknown cmd fd(5) cmd(00000301){t:03;sz:0} arg(ffd04bf8) on /home/dustin/programming/c/haikubuild/haiku/generated/haiku.image
[06:16:40] <umccullough> really?
[06:16:42] <DHowett> like, six times. :P
[06:16:49] <umccullough> wow
[06:17:03] <umccullough> might mention that on the dev list - see if ingo knows what that's about
[06:17:30] <umccullough> maybe that's the magic :D
[06:17:41] <Technix> You've broken your magic!
[06:17:52] <umccullough> of course, maybe mine does the same and i've never looked in the syslog
[06:18:06] <DHowett> hehe :P
[06:18:15] <DHowett> I always have.. since I got into haiku again
[06:18:39] <umccullough> hmm... slight ghosting on this display
[06:18:52] <umccullough> probably doesn't help that i'm running it in analog VGA mode through an oldish KVM
[06:19:31] <umccullough> at 1920x1200
[06:19:49] <zlominus_> umccullough: I have the same problem with my KVM
[06:19:56] <umccullough> zlominus_, what brand?
[06:20:07] <umccullough> it's very slight - i might even be imagining it
[06:20:12] <zlominus_> TYD ... or something like that
[06:20:18] <zlominus_> it is very old
[06:20:33] <umccullough> mine is from this decade at least - an ioGear
[06:20:40] <zlominus_> it has buttons on it ... has no switching with keyboard :)
[06:20:49] <umccullough> oh yeah, that's no fun
[06:21:03] <geist> umccullough: yeah, DVI
[06:21:12] <umccullough> geist, do they make DVI KVMs yet?
[06:21:13] <geist> dont mess with no anaglog crap at that resolution
[06:21:17] <geist> you'll just be sad
[06:21:22] <geist> umccullough: of course they do, they're just relatively expensive
[06:21:36] <umccullough> well the other problem is... this machine only has an analog VGA output on the integrated video :(
[06:21:47] <umccullough> soon... soon
[06:22:12] <geist> yeah, rmember if you drive a 30", you need a dual dvi compatible card
[06:22:19] <umccullough> really?
[06:22:32] <geist> which most half decent ones do
[06:22:37] <geist> dual link dvi
[06:22:52] <geist> also another annoying thing about most 30" screens is they usually only have one input
[06:23:00] <umccullough> lame
[06:23:19] <umccullough> they're too 1337 for anything otherwise :P
[06:23:24] <geist> probably only one screen shipset out there for 30"s or something
[06:23:58] <umccullough> well, at this point - i'll probably wait a 6 months to a year and live with the 24"
[06:23:59] <geist> but you can't always get what you want
[06:24:13] <geist> yeah, I lasted about 6 months on my 24" until i upgraded to 30
[06:24:21] <geist> though i still use the 24 here on another desk for work stuff
[06:24:38] * DHowett mourns having only a 15.4, laptop.
[06:24:51] <geist> DHowett: dpi is probably much higher, though
[06:24:53] <umccullough> perhaps I'll pick up a 4:3 19" for the kvm and set it to the side
[06:25:01] <zlominus_> heheh .. I have dual setup 19" + 22" it fits well
[06:25:20] <DHowett> geist: Native res is 1280x800
[06:25:54] <umccullough> yeah, definitely some ghosting
[06:26:06] <umccullough> inside the 0's and o's i see a grayish spot
[06:26:10] <geist> umccullough: move into teh futar
[06:26:15] <geist> the future is now
[06:26:16] <umccullough> working on it!
[06:26:22] <umccullough> my CRT was from 1997
[06:26:25] <umccullough> ...
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[06:33:01] <geist> i think i'm dumb
[06:33:06] <geist> or maybe just happy
[06:33:25] <umccullough> i always wanted a license plate that says "IM DUBM"
[06:36:01] <ari-free> dumb people are never happy unless they are on drugs
[06:36:12] <[Katisu]> depends on how happy
[06:36:24] <geist> ari-free: i think that may be the point of the song
[06:36:25] <umccullough> ignorance is bliss
[06:36:30] <[Katisu]> exactly
[06:36:47] <ari-free> but if you know you are dumb...oh boy that is an awful feeling
[06:37:06] <umccullough> usually they're not smart enough to figure it out
[06:37:19] <[Katisu]> really? I've met people that seem to be proud of it.
[06:37:31] <umccullough> heh
[06:37:46] <[Katisu]> easier to get away with stuff
[06:38:04] <umccullough> a convenient excuse i suppose...
[06:38:07] <ari-free> how can they get away with stuff if they are stupid
[06:38:23] <[Katisu]> well, usually it is stupid stuff ;)
[06:38:27] <ari-free> now you can be smart as pretend to be dumb as a strategy...
[06:38:48] <ari-free> that could work
[06:39:01] <ari-free> I do that all the time!
[06:39:16] <[Katisu]> I would think that would be hard
[06:39:35] <[Katisu]> now acting like you were misinformed is another matter
[06:39:36] <ari-free> guys do that all the time. they have to
[06:41:17] <[Katisu]> lacking knowledge doesn't necessarily mean you are dumb
[06:42:08] <ari-free> yes, if you intentionally keep yourself from acquiring knowledge.
[06:44:07] <umccullough> sounds like intentional laziness
[06:44:15] <ari-free> dumb people aren't racking their heads in books and learning new skills. They are more interested inPeople magazine and who did what on American Idol
[06:44:34] <[Katisu]> getting themselves ready for the trivia shows
[06:44:49] <koki_haiku> let's see if unzipping a 1GB file breaks haiku :P
[06:44:54] <ari-free> Deal or No Deal
[06:45:09] <umccullough> koki_haiku, how big is the disk?
[06:45:18] <[Katisu]> I like that show :P
[06:45:26] <umccullough> [Katisu], you're dumb!
[06:45:31] <koki_haiku> umccullough, the haiku volume?
[06:45:38] <umccullough> koki_haiku, where you're unzipping it to
[06:45:45] <koki_haiku> about 7GB
[06:45:48] <umccullough> ah
[06:45:49] <umccullough> :)
[06:46:00] * [Katisu] wonders if he's getting the dumb award at the award banquet next week
[06:46:03] <koki_haiku> more than 2GB free
[06:46:04] <geist> Gutmann, you're my hero
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[06:46:56] <[Katisu]> hmm...would explain why I have comcast
[06:47:10] <ari-free> nobody ever received the dumb award because it was always awarded to people who were to dumb to figure out how to get there
[06:47:16] <ari-free> too
[06:47:24] <duaneb> yess
[06:47:33] <duaneb> 12:47, translating latin and geeking out
[06:48:09] <koki_haiku> oh oh... trouble
[06:48:40] <[Katisu]> add the fact that sometimes I think I can get a point across to Koki
[06:49:12] <umccullough> sting
[06:49:59] <koki_haiku> brb
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[06:50:17] <[Katisu]> of course lately I've been agreeing with him more often
[07:00:25] * [Katisu] ponders the fate of his Dreamcast system
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[07:07:09] <umccullough> woah, one of these servers has a RAID controller in it :)
[07:08:15] <Technix> what brand?
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[07:09:20] <koki_haiku> DHowett ping
[07:10:37] <umccullough> Technix, AMI Mega RAID
[07:10:52] <umccullough> looks like three 36gb disks
[07:12:20] <umccullough> already configured as RAID4
[07:12:21] <umccullough> er 5
[07:12:52] <umccullough> hm... no battery module - but it apparently has an option for one
[07:12:59] <umccullough> might be worth picking up
[07:15:48] <umccullough> ah, no memory either - configured as writethru
[07:21:01] <Technix> well, with no battery, you don't want write caching, that's for sure
[07:21:32] <umccullough> yeah
[07:21:52] <umccullough> i'm gonna pop the case and see what the deal is
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[07:25:58] <umccullough> dual PIII 933EB with 1gb ECC RAM
[07:26:09] <umccullough> 3 IBM 36gb SCSI-3 disks
[07:26:27] <Technix> omg the new office is awesome
[07:26:40] <umccullough> as in - tv show?
[07:26:50] <Technix> certainly not the M$ shit
[07:26:53] <umccullough> heh
[07:26:55] <umccullough> i was wondering
[07:27:54] <Technix> I bet you're sick of Tuna... omglolz
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[07:29:09] <[Katisu]> haven't watched that show that much..considering real offices around here seem to have more drama anyway
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[07:30:05] <Begasus> morning peeps
[07:30:12] <Technix> yo Begasus
[07:30:25] <Begasus> hi Technix ;)
[07:31:42] <Technix> Begasus: can you buy me all of this please: http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d438/d925/f934.cfm
[07:33:08] <Begasus> hehe
[07:37:10] <Technix> lol.. MEAT SALAD
[07:37:12] <Technix> wtf?
[07:37:23] <Technix> oh wait, he said beet salad
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[08:16:21] <aroman> I'm seeing some weird build issues, building on Mac OS X. It looks like the include paths are set up wrong somehow, and some files from /usr/include get included... I see messages like: "warning: "htonl" redefined in file included from... /usr/include/..."
[08:16:26] <aroman> any ideas why that hapens?
[08:17:31] <aroman> and that happens over and over for all of the files that get compiled
[08:18:04] <Begasus> Teknomancer, !
[08:21:34] <Teknomancer> hi Begasus!
[08:24:01] <Begasus> how's it going?
[08:24:14] <Begasus> used to the glasses already? ;)
[08:24:21] <Teknomancer> somewhat ... yes
[08:24:40] <Teknomancer> taking me longer than i thought though
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[08:37:24] <Technix> you got glasses?
[08:37:51] <Teknomancer> yes recently
[08:37:56] <DHowett> Kokito: pong?
[08:37:58] <Technix> I got mine last year, the startling revelation was when I was on the bus going home one day after work, and I could SEE the fine hairs on someone's neck. it was a weird experience
[08:38:16] <Technix> it really hit home just how out of focus my vision had become
[08:38:21] <Kokito> hey DHowett
[08:38:24] <Teknomancer> yes for me it's like someone has applied Photoshop sharpen filter on my eyes :P
[08:38:34] <Technix> exactly. good analogy
[08:38:35] <Teknomancer> reversing gaussian blurs :P
[08:39:23] <Technix> my optomitrist was quick too.. in and out in five minutes
[08:39:41] <Technix> its not like he doesn't do like 200 a day or something. :P
[08:40:35] <DHowett> Kokito: sorry i missed your ping earlier. Fullscreen game ><
[08:40:52] <ari-free> it's like HDTV
[08:41:29] <Kokito> DHowett, that's ok :)
[08:41:40] * Kokito does not remember why he pinged DHowett
[08:41:42] <DHowett> when I came back i was afraid something broke
[08:41:43] <DHowett> ah hehe
[08:42:13] <Kokito> DHowett, ah, yes: i tried your latest build, and it works; but no sound. :(
[08:42:28] <Kokito> so I just removed OSS, and it works now
[08:42:37] <Kokito> but w/o the DHowett magic :)
[08:42:59] <DHowett> The stuttering and video problems? =\
[08:43:04] <Kokito> yes
[08:43:07] <Kokito> but no worries
[08:43:29] <DHowett> I wonder what in the tree changed to change that.. hmm
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[08:45:39] * JonathanThompson neuters Technix to help control the Technix population
[08:47:10] <ari-free> propagating like rabbits
[08:47:23] <ari-free> and linux distros
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[09:04:06] <ari-free> I like this bounty idea
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[09:05:39] <ari-free> firefox has one kind of bounty system for security bugs but not for features
[09:05:58] * JonathanThompson suspects deb2006 won't win much in the way of friends on OSNews with his comment about Haiku being a "Design study" and not being an OS...
[09:06:30] <DHowett> grr :P
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[09:06:46] <ari-free> oh there is a bounty for firefox addons
[09:06:57] <JonathanThompson> It'd be so tempting to refer to him as a design study and not a real person ;)
[09:07:37] <DHowett> hehe
[09:08:04] <JonathanThompson> Ok, so Haiku isn't ready for prime time yet.... is SkyOS or Syllable?
[09:08:20] <DHowett> Windows barely is ;)
[09:08:36] <ari-free> some people think macosx is the perfect os in every way
[09:08:44] <JonathanThompson> There's no single perfect OS.
[09:08:59] <JonathanThompson> I've used quite a few different ones, and I've not found a single one I'd consider "perfect"
[09:09:14] <ozy`> all operating systems are at most 10% usable
[09:09:28] <ozy`> (in my experience)
[09:09:33] <ari-free> they feel it is the holy grail of OS's: unix that is easy to use
[09:09:58] <JonathanThompson> There's actually a few weird warts that make it not so nice to develop for related to past Macisms.
[09:09:59] <DHowett> They don't really care about the unix part though
[09:10:18] <DHowett> Most mac users you see like the shiny dumbed-down interface and are afraid of "Terminal"
[09:10:26] <ari-free> the mac people care. they can say it runs on unix
[09:10:46] <ari-free> and then they reach for their mighty mouse
[09:11:13] <ozy`> ari-free: the smart ones reach for quicksilver ;)
[09:11:50] * JonathanThompson has been up too late/early too many times this week and is tired
[09:12:31] <JonathanThompson> That, and fighting the stupid machine at work I've been trying to coerce into doing a proper build when it wasn't configured correctly with tools.
[09:12:34] <ari-free> but this is besides the point. i don't think that unix is a badge of honor
[09:13:01] <JonathanThompson> And now I'm having a problem with it not having LIBTOOL properly defined, even though I installed that friggin' RPM.... I wonder if it needed to be rebooted?
[09:13:14] <JonathanThompson> So, I rebooted it before I came home and restarted the build again.
[09:14:06] <ozy`> ari-free: don't get me wrong, I'm not defending OS X as the "holy grail of OS's"
[09:15:15] <ari-free> but the premise is that unix must be great so if mac is built on top of that, you'd have the best of all worlds
[09:15:20] <Thom_Holwerda> ozy`: wait what, His Steveness is wrong?
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[09:17:05] <ozy`> ari-free: "the best of both worlds" in this case is not necessarily all that much, but considering some of the alternatives (like Linux, which in many forms is essentially Windows-on-Unix) it's a good start
[09:17:19] <ari-free> I think we need to look beyond unix. Apple did the opposite. Since they are now certified, they are more tied to unix than even linux
[09:17:31] <ozy`> Thom_Holwerda: he could use a few kicks in the junk
[09:17:58] <ozy`> ari-free: they've been certified since an early version of Darwin...
[09:18:16] <ari-free> Unix certified since leopard
[09:18:37] <ozy`> hmm, I coulda sworn...
[09:19:02] <ari-free> http://www.macworld.com/article/59264/2007/08/unix03.html
[09:19:05] <ozy`> (the POSIX compatibility had huge holes in it for a while there, true)
[09:19:25] <ari-free> Apple joins only three other companies — Sun, IBM and HP — with certified UNIX operating systems.
[09:20:36] <ari-free> I knew amiga was going to die. the day i saw a picture of an Amiga 3000 running unix with 16 shades of gray on the cover of Byte magazine
[09:20:58] <ari-free> when i saw that, tit was clear that the spirit was gone from Commodore
[09:21:08] <ari-free> it
[09:22:41] <ozy`> I -am- worried that Apple will start breaking really useful things it deems to be too "un-Mac-like"
[09:23:00] <Teknomancer> whats the advantage with being unix certified??
[09:23:02] <ozy`> its not-invented-here-isms are dangerous
[09:23:15] <JonathanThompson> Government contracts, Teknomancer.
[09:23:21] <ozy`> Teknomancer: I dunno... they get to swing the UNIX brand around and shout "TUUUUBESTEEEAAAK"
[09:23:27] <ari-free> the other problem is that they try to be over the top to shoff of a trick
[09:23:36] <ari-free> show off
[09:23:36] <JonathanThompson> It becomes a round peg that's interchangeable at a known level with any other big peg.
[09:23:39] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson: ah that makes sense
[09:24:00] <ari-free> so now everything in the UI has to do a little dance
[09:24:40] <ari-free> but this is just too funny http://www.wired.com/software/coolapps/news/2007/06/core_anim
[09:24:46] <ozy`> like the slow-mo mode for expose, et al? :p
[09:24:59] <JonathanThompson> Also, being compatible with a known standard like Unix that's stable has a big draw for long-term projects, like government and other large institutions like to do.
[09:25:04] <ozy`> ari-free: oh wow
[09:25:58] <JonathanThompson> I imagine there's old hardware older than me still running business-critical applications, and when that hardware dies, IBM still has the capacity to move the software in use over to modern hardware that runs exactly the same old OS in a virtual session as if nothing happened.
[09:26:17] <JonathanThompson> And I *KNOW* there's a lot of software like that.
[09:26:22] <ari-free> that will make linux geeks jealous. they want everything to be burning
[09:27:11] <DHowett> BURNING I SAY!
[09:27:16] * DHowett is a linux geek >_>
[09:27:17] <ari-free> If you blow into your computer's microphone, the smoke blows across your desktop.
[09:27:40] <ozy`> I'm amazed that the major linux DEs are doing so little to extend command line metaphors to the GUI
[09:29:06] <ari-free> they want to keep up with windows
[09:29:17] <ari-free> not rock the boat
[09:29:20] <ozy`> yeah, I know :\
[09:29:33] <ari-free> until compiz came along
[09:30:54] <ari-free> the problem is that nobody knows what linux is supposed to look like
[09:31:15] <DHowett> It's not -supposed- to look like anything in particular. That's a tenet of having choice.
[09:31:22] <JonathanThompson> Wait, I always thought Linux was a 3-legged duck!
[09:31:40] <DHowett> No, it's a porcupine on stilts!
[09:32:24] <ari-free> but you know what firefox is supposed to look like
[09:32:33] <ari-free> and there's still choice
[09:32:38] <ozy`> ari-free: tiled WMs are a step in the right direction in that regard
[09:32:43] <ozy`> (I think)
[09:32:53] * JonathanThompson ponders why his build at work fails due to LIBTOOL not being defined, despite the exact same version of libtool being installed on the machine next to it
[09:33:03] <DHowett> Howso, ozy`
[09:33:41] <ozy`> DHowett: pretty much all of them are designed for keyboard-driven window manipulation
[09:36:30] <DHowett> And that's what we want linux to be supposed to look like? "Toss out your mouse, you won't be needing point-and-click anymore." Windows 1.0 used strictly tiling.
[09:37:10] <ozy`> they're part of the path, not the destination
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[09:39:08] <ozy`> OS X's expose is also a step in the right direction, but I don't think it's particularly useful the way it works in OS X (for now at least)
[09:40:00] <ozy`> there's also that Archy "zooming interface"
[09:40:15] <ozy`> which I haven't had a chance to try
[09:40:22] <Thom_Holwerda> expose is the best thing since sliced bread
[09:40:25] <Thom_Holwerda> seriously
[09:40:39] * JonathanThompson slices up Thom_Holwerda and exposes him
[09:40:51] <ozy`> Thom_Holwerda: in conjunction with spaces, it's nice
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[09:41:02] <Thom_Holwerda> expose eliminates the need for spaces
[09:41:06] <JonathanThompson> I've not really tried Spaces after the initial release.
[09:41:18] <JonathanThompson> Spaces seems broken logically for focus issues at times.
[09:41:20] <ozy`> Thom_Holwerda: maybe if Macs had nib mice
[09:41:21] <Thom_Holwerda> i hate virtual desktops anyway, except when they are wrapped around a cube so they get a virtual presence
[09:41:57] <Thom_Holwerda> nib?
[09:43:29] <ozy`> Thom_Holwerda: http://www.xkcd.com/243/
[09:43:44] <ozy`> nub, sorry :p
[09:43:52] <Thom_Holwerda> ozy`: you can use screencorners too for expose
[09:43:56] <Thom_Holwerda> that's what i do
[09:44:01] <ozy`> never
[09:44:22] <ari-free> all the fun stuff http://youtube.com/watch?v=E4Fbk52Mk1w
[09:44:28] <ozy`> anyway, hitting a key combo is faster for me
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[09:48:38] <koki_haiku> LugRadio hand out flyer: http://www.myhaiku.org/flyer_lrl2008.png
[09:48:56] <koki_haiku> ouch
[09:49:45] <koki_haiku> that's supposed to be: http://www.myhaiku.org/haiku/flyer_lrl2008.png
[09:50:31] <ari-free> oh this is the flyer I want. the other flyer on the Haiku website had some stuff about the scale conference
[09:50:51] <DHowett> aah creepy man in the video
[09:51:14] <DHowett> blurry folder-with-a-bug-on-it though
[09:51:57] <ari-free> I would amend the quote to say free and open source
[09:52:16] <koki_haiku> DHowett, good eye
[09:52:34] <koki_haiku> I am converting that to vector
[09:52:44] <pyCube___> oh the sweetness...
[09:54:05] <ari-free> I want to know if you think this is a good idea: to put a flyer on bulletin boards of universities. the computer science depts
[09:54:58] <ari-free> get the academics aware
[09:55:26] <ozy`> ari-free: you know, I would bet that 99% of the people in computer science departments who would give a damn already know about haiku
[09:56:00] <DHowett> if it's a good idea I will get a printer and go to the CS building on my campus :P
[09:56:17] <DHowett> Or just anywhere on campus. I'm in quite a tech school :P
[09:56:40] * JonathanThompson now knows a good place to go nerd-sniping
[09:56:41] <ozy`> DHowett: run up to a random person and ask them if they know about it
[09:56:45] <ozy`> tell them it's a survey
[09:56:52] <ozy`> so they don't freak out
[09:57:03] <ozy`> (if I did that, they would freak out even if I said it was a survey)
[09:57:10] <DHowett> haha. Random person or Random person in CS? ;)
[09:57:11] <ari-free> I doubt they know...otherwise the academics would be just as likely to be on haiku lists as they are on hurd or dragonfly lists
[09:57:16] <JonathanThompson> Make sure you have printed sheets or something that makes it look like a serious survey ;)
[09:57:23] <ozy`> DHowett: well if you're in a tech school....
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[09:58:03] * JonathanThompson welcomes Mr. Greens and Veggies into the channel, aka "slaad"
[09:58:08] <DHowett> My school does bizarre things. It's 92% RIT 8% NTID, Nat'l Technical Institute for the Deaf. Well, they're separate schools sharing a campus. My percentage breakdown is by population
[09:58:18] <JonathanThompson> Oh, wait: dyslexia strikes again! :D
[09:58:57] * JonathanThompson grumbles about all the hidden dependencies that seem to exist for building stuff on an uninitiated system in Linux
[09:59:06] <ari-free> tossed
[09:59:25] <JonathanThompson> Of course, I expect I'd run into the same stupid issue on a strict Unix system that didn't have the developer tools pre-installed, too.
[09:59:48] <koki_haiku> OMG! it's 1:00AM!
[09:59:51] <JonathanThompson> All the flexibility to overcome incompatibilities comes at a high price in all the stupid trivia you need to know to make things work.
[10:01:42] <DHowett> 1 AM? Oh right, PST :)
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[10:01:58] <koki_haiku> the old man is going to sleep
[10:02:02] <koki_haiku> night folks
[10:02:11] <DHowett> Night koki
[10:02:12] <JonathanThompson> Morning
[10:02:24] <ari-free> cya
[10:02:35] <Technix> hi jt
[10:02:36] <ari-free> hey does does mphipps do these days?
[10:02:39] <ari-free> what does
[10:02:45] <ari-free> hmm I must be tired
[10:03:23] <ozy`> eh fights aleins and doesn't afraid of anything
[10:05:09] <JonathanThompson> Did you enjoy your neutering, Technix? :)
[10:05:10] <Technix> absoneutly!
[10:05:10] * JonathanThompson buys Technix some sleek bikini briefs to console him
[10:05:10] <ari-free> he has nothing to do with haiku anymore?
[10:05:10] <Technix> mmm... consoles
[10:05:10] <Technix> oh, I totally read that wrong
[10:05:10] <JonathanThompson> :P
[10:05:11] <ari-free> ewww
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[10:05:43] * slaad dffs his hat at JonathanThompson
[10:05:46] <Technix> Pop quiz, people... Name the 3 things most desirable in a free online user account
[10:05:56] <slaad> Lasers!
[10:06:03] <JonathanThompson> Girls, girls, girls!
[10:06:08] <JonathanThompson> Oh, wait...
[10:06:13] <ari-free> free money!
[10:06:14] <slaad> Right, dinner time.
[10:06:30] <DHowett> I'd have to go with lasers...
[10:06:33] <DHowett> :P
[10:06:44] <Technix> JonathanThompson: in your case, eunichs, eunichs, eunichs
[10:06:52] <JonathanThompson> Well, Technix won't be able to do much with girls, now that he's been neutered ;)
[10:06:53] <ari-free> with free money you can buy lasers and make girls happy
[10:07:07] <DHowett> Well. they're the three things most desirable. So
[10:07:10] <DHowett> Lasers, Money and Girls.
[10:07:11] <DHowett> In that order.
[10:07:30] <Technix> and if the girls get out of line, you can shoot them with... ?
[10:07:30] <DHowett> Because big death lasers can get you money and girls. Money can get you lasers and girls. Girls can not get you money and/or lasers.
[10:07:44] <JonathanThompson> What if you're a pimp?
[10:07:45] <ari-free> big lasers can result in more eunuchs
[10:08:14] <ari-free> girls get you less money because you have to spend it on them
[10:08:26] <Technix> ok, but seriously, what three things do -you- look for whenever you sign up to some website that allows you to register for free.
[10:08:26] <JonathanThompson> Lasers require power to run: that costs money.
[10:08:38] <JonathanThompson> Content.
[10:08:52] <DHowett> Not having a 100% flash-based interface.
[10:08:55] <JonathanThompson> Whether or not it gets me something that I need in terms of information of value to me.
[10:09:10] <Technix> how about the ability to provide content?
[10:09:12] <ari-free> not having 5 million ads that can't be blocked by adblock
[10:09:18] <JonathanThompson> And also, it needs to have a sane interface that's appropriate for what its overall purpose is.
[10:11:22] <Technix> anything else?
[10:11:30] <JonathanThompson> Free money!!!!!
[10:11:31] <JonathanThompson> :D
[10:11:51] <Technix> I'm trying to gather some ideas for the future. I'm working on something
[10:11:58] <JonathanThompson> Well, I likely need to be able to contribute comments to it.
[10:12:03] <Technix> so, be serious a little.. :P
[10:12:15] <JonathanThompson> Why bother registering for anything I can't work with?
[10:12:21] <Technix> absolutely.
[10:12:34] <ari-free> yes definitely comments...but I hate those sites that have spam comments
[10:12:37] <JonathanThompson> That's why I don't like signing up for newspaper sites.
[10:12:48] <NeutronWrangler> if it actually requires you to sign up (boooo!), I'd want the required information to be filled in at registration time to be limited to username, password and perhaps emailadres
[10:12:55] <Technix> I agree, it should not be necessary to register JUST to see the content
[10:12:58] <JonathanThompson> They expect you to fill out all this information to look at the stuff, and everyone has a different system for you to sign on to.
[10:13:30] <Technix> NeutronWrangler: don't worry, the user registration for haiku news will be totally optional
[10:13:33] <ari-free> also the whole capcha thing should be restrained
[10:13:40] <JonathanThompson> Which then means... you may have a name collision from another user, and you then are forced to try to remember all your different usernames.  Sometimes they're stuck being different because they have a shorter or different requirement for username format.
[10:13:45] <Technix> there's better alternatives to captcha
[10:13:51] <JonathanThompson> Also applies to password requirements/restrictions.
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[10:14:20] <Technix> JonathanThompson: would it make you feel better knowing that you can login with your email address?
[10:14:21] <ari-free> well you'd use a password manager
[10:14:26] <JonathanThompson> Oh, and I think having an email address as the username (or a way to recover your username using it) is vital.
[10:14:31] <JonathanThompson> HA!
[10:14:33] <Technix> :P
[10:14:36] <JonathanThompson> I was typing that at the same time :D
[10:14:43] <Technix> You owe me a beer!
[10:14:52] * Technix punches JonathanThompson for good measure
[10:15:00] <JonathanThompson> Will you settle for a queer, now that you've been neutered ? :D
[10:15:05] <Technix> geesh
[10:15:08] <Technix> only from you
[10:15:23] <Technix> yeah, password retrieval is already built, it works great.
[10:15:29] <JonathanThompson> I can find one quickly on Capitol Hill if I ask around (don't know any personally AFAIK right now)
[10:15:45] <Technix> using your email. nothing is disclosed that would allow someone to guess your username/email
[10:15:49] <JonathanThompson> Capitol Hill=homosexual headquarters in downtown Seattle...
[10:16:21] * JonathanThompson suddenly is reminded of "Men seeking men" commercials, and shudders
[10:16:26] <ari-free> oh i thought you were talking about the other washington hehe
[10:16:28] <DHowett> Those creep me the heck out
[10:16:43] <Technix> ok, so it looks like I'm on the same page as y'all
[10:16:48] <JonathanThompson> They tend to show up during the local sci-fi shows, too...
[10:17:00] <ari-free> basically common sense technix
[10:17:13] <Technix> yes, but I always like to double and triple check things that are important
[10:17:22] <ari-free> something you don't see too often on the web
[10:17:25] <DHowett> Technix: You could have premium registration with the lasers and girls bit ... ;)
[10:17:32] <Technix> lol.. for sure!
[10:18:02] <JonathanThompson> Do ensure that there's a backup method to restore access to accounts allowing changing of email addresses, as I got bitten by PayPal going a long time with one address, and then not being able to do anything about it later as a result of a sudden change.
[10:18:05] <Technix> Haiku News. Now with Lasers!
[10:18:15] * JonathanThompson puts on his special glasses
[10:18:28] <Technix> JonathanThompson: this is a good thought. How about a secondary email address?
[10:18:35] * JonathanThompson slaps Technix
[10:18:38] <JonathanThompson> Stop reading my mind!
[10:18:57] <Technix> It's like one of those blank books, unfortunately.
[10:18:58] <Technix> :)
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[10:19:07] <ari-free> oh now I see what's wrong with the folder icon
[10:19:09] <JonathanThompson> Either that, or I'm thinking way too loud :D
[10:19:40] * JonathanThompson must not have his normal mental encryption working correctly at 1:19 a.m.
[10:20:05] <Technix> what about more personal information, such as a contact telephone number? This would be used exclusively by the site itself, say admins later in the future who need to contact you
[10:20:14] <JonathanThompson> Possibly.
[10:20:29] <JonathanThompson> It'd allow you to send a message and ask to be called for it.
[10:20:42] <ari-free> only if you really need to use it. most sites aren't that personal
[10:20:45] <JonathanThompson> Of course, remember that not everyone will be in the same country.
[10:20:53] <Technix> hrm...  Skype validation?
[10:20:56] <JonathanThompson> And that could get expensive ;)
[10:21:03] <Technix> yeah, that could suck
[10:21:03] <JonathanThompson> Not everyone WANTS to use Skype.
[10:21:04] <Technix> for me
[10:21:26] <JonathanThompson> Are you aware Skype piggybacks off your CPU time and net bandwidth?
[10:21:41] <Technix> no no... what I meant was, integrate skype into hnn backend, so that you could request "Call me with a verification code" so they can set a new password
[10:21:45] <JonathanThompson> You've become a p2p conversation participant when you use them.
[10:22:08] <JonathanThompson> Oh, so the server itself does it, and you don't need a Skype client?
[10:22:11] <Technix> right
[10:22:13] <CIA-50> jackburton * r24909 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
[10:22:13] <CIA-50> Added a class MenuPrivate to handle access to private BMenu methods.
[10:22:13] <CIA-50> BMenuItem and BWindow are no longer friends of BMenu, but use this class
[10:22:13] <CIA-50> instead.
[10:22:17] <JonathanThompson> That'd work.
[10:22:42] <Technix> that's like, v3
[10:22:47] <Technix> waay down the road
[10:23:01] * JonathanThompson notes the bad design issues of Haiku forced upon it by the design of BeOS
[10:23:12] <Technix> Heathen!
[10:23:18] <Technix> boys, get the rope, we got another one
[10:23:32] <JonathanThompson> Technix, the problem is I've done C++ design and implementation for far too long not to recognize bad design :)
[10:23:48] <Technix> Don't try to talk your way out of this, jt
[10:23:58] <JonathanThompson> The C++ API was designed in a snarled fashion that has dependencies that are less than good for sanity.
[10:23:59] <Technix> We don't resort to talkin' in these parts.
[10:24:11] * JonathanThompson complies by shooting Technix
[10:24:22] * Technix falls .... over .. *gasp*
[10:24:27] <JonathanThompson> Shoot first, talk over the grave, I say!
[10:24:34] <Technix> pff
[10:24:38] <Technix> just a flesh wound
[10:24:52] * JonathanThompson notes Locutus needs sleep
[10:25:50] <JonathanThompson> In a properly designed C++ frameworks, only iterators and similar functions would be friend functions/classes of another class: otherwise, no friends.
[10:26:11] <JonathanThompson> All the twiddleable methods should be transparent to all users and abusers equally.
[10:26:22] <JonathanThompson> Including the framework itself.
[10:26:34] <JonathanThompson> But, I need to get to bed...
[10:26:54] <JonathanThompson> I can always dream and encourage Haiku R2 to come up with a better design that's not backwards-compatible for code.
[10:26:59] * Technix starts sleep(43200) for JonathanThompson
[10:27:12] * JonathanThompson wishes that would work
[10:27:23] <JonathanThompson> Oh, wait: what's the unit of time? ms?
[10:27:31] <Technix> :P
[10:27:31] <JonathanThompson> Seconds?
[10:27:32] <ari-free> i hope so...i hope we're not like the amiga fans
[10:27:54] <ari-free> it's not as if Gobe was the most amazing app known to man
[10:28:29] <JonathanThompson> There's not a single current BeOS app worth THAT much to stop progress and fixing major design mistakes for the long-term.
[10:28:38] <DHowett> Night
[10:28:43] <JonathanThompson> And there's always the option of doing the VM thing.
[10:28:46] <JonathanThompson> Morning.
[10:28:50] * JonathanThompson goes to get some sleep
[10:28:54] <ari-free> tunetracker is probably the most important app
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[10:29:52] <JonathanThompson> It's the only commercially-viable app I'm aware of at this time.
[10:29:55] <CIA-50> jackburton * r24910 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/interface/MenuPrivate.h: added missing header
[10:30:26] * JonathanThompson suddenly remembers and wonders about SoundPlay, an app he never bought himself
[10:30:31] <ari-free> yup. i'm sure he'll be fine if it means a better future for the system
[10:32:21] <ari-free> Haiku is all about building the community that's necessary for sustaining and building an OS for the future
[10:34:15] <Technix> Well said, ari-free
[10:34:21] <Technix> That is amazingly apt
[10:35:37] <ari-free> so many people have ideas but they can't get their OS off the ground because they didn't work on the ecosystem
[10:35:40] <Technix> one feature that I would like (its nowhere near being started even) is for registered users at HNN to be able to leave IRC quotes, like at bash.org
[10:35:59] <Technix> sorta like a Haiku Wall
[10:36:09] <Technix> WallKu?
[10:36:11] <Technix> hrm
[10:36:39] <Begasus> he's off again ...;)
[10:36:54] <Technix> who's off what where?
[10:37:28] <Begasus> you are ;)
[10:37:32] <Technix> hehe
[10:41:23] <ari-free> lots of funny irc quotes from this channel
[10:41:43] <ari-free> we should go on tour
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[10:49:30] <JBurton> hi all
[10:49:35] <ari-free> hi
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[10:53:17] <Begasus> hi JBurton
[10:53:27] <CIA-50> jackburton * r24911 /haiku/trunk/ (headers/os/interface/Menu.h src/kits/interface/Menu.cpp):
[10:53:27] <CIA-50> Renamed some private methods to have the underline prefix, now that
[10:53:27] <CIA-50> BWindow doesn't call them directly anymore.
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[11:25:19] <Begasus> cya peeps
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[11:26:12] <CIA-50> jackburton * r24912 /haiku/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
[11:26:12] <CIA-50> Removed unused BWindow friend classes, renamed some BView member
[11:26:12] <CIA-50> variables to fit our guidelines.
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[12:30:22] <Thom_Holwerda> right-o
[12:46:17] <JBurton> what ?
[12:55:15] <Technix> morning
[12:55:32] * JonathanThompson should be sleeping
[12:55:39] <Technix> wth
[12:55:41] <Technix> indeed
[12:55:45] <Technix> didn't you go to bed a few hours ago
[12:55:51] <JonathanThompson> Too much on my mind, and an asthma attack.
[12:55:54] <JonathanThompson> I tried.
[12:55:55] <Technix> oh
[12:55:59] <Technix> sorry to hear
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[12:56:21] <Technix> so the light of the screen beckons as a soothing siren?
[12:56:23] * JonathanThompson mumbles at needless Linux build complexity via libtool that aims to make things more portable
[12:56:32] <JonathanThompson> Nah, more as a distraction.
[12:56:55] <JonathanThompson> In all honesty, I'd get a lot more done if I didn't chat with anyone on IRC/BeShare (in the past).
[12:57:30] <JonathanThompson> I'd guess >99% of the time chatting online, I don't gain anything truly useful in terms of technical help that'd help me towards my goals.
[12:57:49] <JonathanThompson> Sure, sometimes I'm of help to others, but... where is my time most usefully spent to help others?
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[13:01:00] <Technix> sometimes, its necessary to cleanse the mind, but at the cost of productivity, I understand your concern
[13:01:18] <JonathanThompson> And yet, here I am, repeatedly...
[13:01:41] <JonathanThompson> This isn't my only social outlet, fortunately, but... I don't have an awful lot more, unfortunately.
[13:03:22] <Technix> maybe you need to fulfill a need for someone to provide you motivation?
[13:03:41] <JonathanThompson> That works only to a certain degree.
[13:04:03] <JonathanThompson> I don't know, but I have good reason to believe I qualify as being depressed, which doesn't help things.
[13:04:14] <Technix> I completely understand this feeling
[13:04:19] <Technix> I went through about 2 years of it
[13:04:27] <JonathanThompson> I'd like to think there's a valid reason I've not been able to sleep properly for many months now through the night.
[13:04:44] <Technix> what is it that you keep putting off?
[13:04:59] <JonathanThompson> ?
[13:05:18] <Technix> depression usually stems from some psychological denial
[13:05:25] <Technix> what is it that you're not facing?
[13:05:42] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps that I'm not sure where I'm going at where I'm at.
[13:05:54] <JonathanThompson> Of course, it could be purely medical in nature, too...
[13:05:55] <Technix> with your employment
[13:05:58] <JonathanThompson> Yeah.
[13:06:01] <Technix> or a mixture of the two
[13:06:06] <JonathanThompson> Could be.
[13:06:13] <Technix> well, what signs indicate there are any instabilities at work?
[13:06:19] <JonathanThompson> Mind you, I've always had a restless relationship with sleep.
[13:06:30] <Technix> most geeks have racing mind syndrome, that's normal
[13:06:33] <Technix> this is something more
[13:07:01] <JonathanThompson> I strongly suspect I don't care to work in QA forever.
[13:07:12] <Technix> Are there opportunities to move laterally?
[13:07:14] <JonathanThompson> Even though I'm doing whitebox QA.
[13:07:32] <JonathanThompson> There should be, though currently, I don't see how feasible it is to do so locally.
[13:07:48] <Technix> you never know, maybe there is a position you didn't know about
[13:07:49] <JonathanThompson> Of course, should current rumblings pan out, there should be more local opportunities ;)
[13:08:13] <JonathanThompson> Well, the thing is, in my group, I've got perhaps the most limited database experience of the group.
[13:08:14] <Technix> Do me a favour and find out three positions that interest you at the company, by Monday
[13:08:27] <Technix> Would you do me this favour?
[13:08:36] * JonathanThompson wonders if they exist....
[13:08:59] <JonathanThompson> There's things I might be interested in, and then there's the question of whether or not I'd be suitably qualified.
[13:09:11] <Technix> I'd love to know what kind of positions are there, regardless of qualifications.
[13:09:22] <Technix> It would give me some perspective on the IT field
[13:09:30] <JonathanThompson> You've got about as much access to that as I do ;)
[13:09:35] <Technix> you have tons more
[13:09:46] <JonathanThompson> Go to the Yahoo page, you'll see the careers link.
[13:09:56] <Technix> 1.) HR director, who knows the upcoming positions
[13:10:09] <Technix> 2.) Your immediate manager, who knows upcoming positions
[13:10:12] <JonathanThompson> There's not a single HR person at the local site ;)
[13:10:23] <Technix> 3.) Other employees who might be leaving, thus opening upcoming positions
[13:10:33] <Technix> there's no HR anywhere?
[13:10:38] <JonathanThompson> Not at the local site.
[13:10:42] <Technix> not even via Instant Messaging/Email?
[13:10:43] <JonathanThompson> We're a satellite office.
[13:10:51] <Technix> well, that's a minor technicality
[13:10:54] <JonathanThompson> Oh, sure, there's that, to the mothership office :D
[13:10:59] <Technix> there you go
[13:11:09] <Technix> You'll be able to find out for me?
[13:11:22] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson: shouldn't you be.. like asleep? :)
[13:11:35] <JonathanThompson> I have several other things I need to do this weekend, plus currently being behind schedule at work :(
[13:11:39] <JonathanThompson> I should be, Teknomancer.
[13:12:10] <JonathanThompson> I do need to discuss with a coworker that what he did yesterday afternoon will NOT happen again.
[13:12:27] <Technix> JonathanThompson: you have as much power as you think you need, to make things happen
[13:13:00] <Technix> I believe you are a succesful person, but are in a rough spot, and just want you to know that its ok
[13:13:10] <JonathanThompson> Well, I'm thinking it's wisest at the moment to see how this works out, get some useful experience... but I do have contacts with headhunters that are more than willing to find me stuff.
[13:13:35] <JonathanThompson> I spoke to one Wednesday at lunch, the one that got me into Coinstar.
[13:14:20] <rennj> i cant stand headhunters they piss me off
[13:14:32] * JonathanThompson thinks he has an angel of destruction battling another angel that's always nearby, and sometimes he narrowly avoids getting crushed by cranes
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[13:14:58] <rennj> its like you have an agent in hollywood
[13:15:03] <JonathanThompson> For that matter, perhaps it's some amount of PTSD...
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[13:15:16] <rennj> read a book
[13:15:23] <rennj> get your mind into a diff mode
[13:15:39] <JonathanThompson> Maybe that'll help, but honestly, I've lost a lot of nights of sleep doing just that ;)
[13:15:40] <rennj> dont be so introspective
[13:15:57] <rennj> examineing every detail of your life its all meaningless
[13:16:00] <Technix> introspection is good, in mild doses. :P
[13:16:01] <rennj> hehe
[13:16:15] <JonathanThompson> Oh, I don't examine every detail of my life :)
[13:16:22] <rennj> zen shit life is suffering
[13:16:23] <JonathanThompson> I miss a few percent...
[13:16:28] <rennj> desire brings suffering
[13:16:32] <Technix> bbiab, I have some billing work to do
[13:16:34] <rennj> elimnate desire
[13:16:39] <rennj> elimnate suffering
[13:16:40] <JonathanThompson> Existing brings suffering :D
[13:16:54] <rennj> sure you get old body ages, people you know die
[13:16:57] <rennj> thats life
[13:17:03] <JonathanThompson> Death is life.
[13:17:03] <rennj> live in the moment
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[13:18:20] <rennj> my cousin here is screwed
[13:18:25] <rennj> 50 with pancreas cancer
[13:18:31] <JonathanThompson> At this time, the best thing I could think of financially to happen would be Yahoo being bought and me being laid off, due to the change of control severance plan ;)
[13:18:32] <rennj> death sentence
[13:18:37] <JonathanThompson> That's how my Dad died.
[13:18:50] <rennj> uncle had same thing
[13:18:58] <rennj> her mother had diff cancer
[13:19:03] <rennj> its in the code
[13:19:10] <JonathanThompson> I'm trying (not full-heartedly) to keep myself from suffering a similar fate.
[13:19:31] <rennj> ill suck on a gun barrell before i go threw the end phase of that shit
[13:19:36] <JonathanThompson> Working software development isn't exactly contributing towards making that easy, due to not enough movement in the job.
[13:20:14] <rennj> doped up on morphine, laying in a hospital or home bed setup,..
[13:20:24] <rennj> i think i rather off myself on my own terms
[13:20:40] <rennj> she is 120lbs right now
[13:20:55] <JonathanThompson> Due to issues beyond my control, I can't help but think I need to figure out how to be sufficiently wealthy before too long to work around the fact that my degenerative inner ear disorder (along with another thing) may leave me unable to work before too many years.
[13:21:52] <rennj> meh, if i was homeless i could survive
[13:22:07] <rennj> it would suck, but it would be doable with todays tech
[13:22:12] <JonathanThompson> I think that'd kill me quickly due to various health reasons.
[13:22:38] <rennj> i been lucky so far, 37 and no major health issues
[13:22:49] <JonathanThompson> That's not my life.
[13:22:59] <JonathanThompson> I'm slightly younger (36) and quite a few things.
[13:23:26] <JonathanThompson> But I keep on fighting.  There are others that are on disability with less serious of a problem.
[13:24:01] <rennj> yeah pyyiscal and mental heath is key
[13:24:17] <JonathanThompson> They're interrelated, in a circular dependency.
[13:24:45] <rennj> well maslow pyramid of needs
[13:24:51] <rennj> i was thinking
[13:24:53] <JonathanThompson> There's that, too.
[13:24:54] <rennj> basics for life
[13:25:16] <JonathanThompson> I suspect there's a lot of truth in the statement that some people are dumb but happy.
[13:25:34] <rennj> you need air,water,food,warmth, clean place to shit
[13:25:38] <JonathanThompson> If you don't have the understanding that things could be better, you're more likely to be satisfied with what your reality is :D
[13:25:39] <rennj> oh and security
[13:25:47] <rennj> then everything else comes
[13:26:09] <rennj> if your living in cave fighting off tigers
[13:26:42] <rennj> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg
[13:26:51] <JonathanThompson> I've read of it before ;)
[13:27:10] <rennj> yeah, 101
[13:27:33] <Technix> what the hell kind of domain is elginanddistrict-rcmpdivisionc-pipesanddrums.com
[13:27:35] <Technix> really
[13:27:36] <JonathanThompson> Well, I never had a formal class discussion of it... I think actually it might have been Wikipedia...
[13:27:43] <Technix> sigh
[13:28:08] * JonathanThompson goes to register neutertechnix.com for fun
[13:28:45] <rennj> svg opentracker
[13:28:48] <rennj> tracknewfs
[13:28:56] <JonathanThompson> Ah, it doesn't seem to be taken already, Technix ;)
[13:29:10] <rennj> i forget, but i tried one with svg support
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[13:30:47] * JonathanThompson attempts to go to bed again
[13:31:27] <rennj> i forgot "sleep", that super important
[13:31:33] <rennj> you could die without it
[13:31:47] <rennj> hibernate mode
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[13:38:27] <rennj> http://www.gizzod.com/South-Park/172/Eek,-A-Penis!
[13:38:59] <urnenfeld> Anybody knows if its possible to get this channel's yesterday's log ?
[13:39:39] <mmu_man> I have some log, what part do you want ?
[13:40:33] <rennj> yeah irclogs site has it
[13:40:34] <urnenfeld> yesterday.... evening... Deadyak explained something about tha cross compiling for R5
[13:41:00] <rennj> http://irclog.org/
[13:41:07] <rennj> while since i been there
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[13:41:47] <urnenfeld> they dont seem to have haiku one...
[13:41:50] <rennj> nope
[13:41:53] <rennj> i got them
[13:42:44] <urnenfeld> it means now is not available rennj ?
[13:43:16] <rennj> no i got the logs
[13:43:17] <rennj> hold on
[13:44:46] <urnenfeld> thanks
[13:44:53] <rennj> DeadYak:
[13:44:54] <rennj> Apr 10 2008 14:44:27 <DeadYak>  that won't work.
[13:44:54] <rennj> Apr 10 2008 14:44:39 <DeadYak>  there was a change to the ELF loader some time ago that renders BeOS gcc incompatible
[13:44:54] <rennj> Apr 10 2008 14:44:52 <DeadYak>  because Haiku is now capable of supporting undefined symbols, which BeOS gcc cannot do
[13:44:54] <rennj> Apr 10 2008 14:45:00 <DeadYak>  so on BeOS platforms you have to use configure --build-cross-tools also\
[13:44:55] <rennj> Apr 10 2008 14:45:12 <urnenfeld>        that easy DeadYak ?
[13:44:58] <rennj> Apr 10 2008 14:45:17 <DeadYak>  you need to checkout haiku/buildtools/trunk
[13:44:59] <rennj> Apr 10 2008 14:45:35 <DeadYak>  then do ./configure --build-cross-tools /path/to/buildtools/trunk
[13:45:06] <rennj>  ./configure --build-cross-tools /path/to/buildtools/trunk
[13:45:11] <rennj> is that what your looking for
[13:45:50] <urnenfeld> heheh yes rennj
[13:46:03] <urnenfeld> Thanks a lot
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[14:22:57] <helf> hola
[14:24:25] <DeadYak> hiya
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[14:31:26] <JamesB192> Heh, I just got the Haiku bootloader running on my machine, man I am so silly I was trying to use the systems Jam to build a native makebootable .  8-)
[14:32:57] <JamesB192> It appears to stall on the microchip icon though, probably an issue with my hardware or something.
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[14:47:19] <Thom_Holwerda> they finally got my cat fixed :)
[14:47:21] <Thom_Holwerda> err
[14:47:22] <Thom_Holwerda> lol
[14:47:25] <Thom_Holwerda> i mean caR
[14:47:29] <DeadYak> hahahaha
[14:47:45] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: smoooooooooooth :P
[14:47:50] <Thom_Holwerda> anyway, took them a few days
[14:47:53] <Thom_Holwerda> but its fixed
[14:48:07] <Thom_Holwerda> seriously, i dont care if they had to sacrifice virgins to get it fixed
[14:48:10] <Thom_Holwerda> as long as its fixed
[14:48:41] <Thom_Holwerda> and the weather is top here, i could open the car's roof too while test driving it around the countryside (=all around me)
[14:48:44] <Thom_Holwerda> im happy :D
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[14:56:46] <Technix> Thom_Holwerda: did you hear, they finally got JonathanThompson fixed!
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[15:01:20] <mmu_man> damn I can't boot my haiku partition from qemu
[15:01:28] <mmu_man> bfs panics in mount !?
[15:01:29] <mmu_man> odd
[15:03:15] <JamesB192> I'd be tempted to ask if it's a bootloader issue, but reading your comment I think not.  Besides, I'm probably the only person who couldn't figure it out.
[15:03:41] <mmu_man> it's possibly in a debug code as I enabled that to fix the xemacs issue
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[15:22:07] <mmu_man> plop
[15:22:09] * mmu_man pets tic
[15:22:13] <mmu_man> long time
[15:23:12] <andybe> mmu_man: plop
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[15:36:08] <tic> hea mmu_man
[15:36:12] <Technix> aw yea
[15:36:12] <Technix> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJvxEjGpIqU&feature=related
[15:36:54] <mmu_man> flash...
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[15:53:37] <mmu_man> plop
[15:55:17] <[Katisu]> plop fizz fizz
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[15:59:48] <mmu_man> gahhh rm instead of m
[15:59:57] <mmu_man> luckily I had a back up :)
[16:00:49] <DeadYak> oops
[16:00:58] * [Katisu] remembers a time doing an rm -rf * in the wrong directory
[16:01:40] <mmu_man> happened once... didn't have much in :)
[16:02:03] <[Katisu]> about 40 hours work went bye-bye
[16:04:59] <[Katisu]> fortunately it didn't take me as long to reproduce it and it turned out better anyway
[16:05:08] <Technix> that's one heck of a typo, mmu_man
[16:05:20] * JamesB192 thinks this would be partial justification for scrapping rm and replacing it with 'tc' move to a trash can, 'scuttle' overwrite w/ garbage and delete, and 'rubbish' just delete the inodes or whatever.
[16:05:56] <Technix> and break poxix compatibility, not to mention warping every linux/unix brain out there? no way
[16:06:11] <Technix> besides, its quite a stretch to do rm -Rf by accident
[16:06:28] <DeadYak> ask Apple about that one
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[16:08:52] <[Katisu]> not to mention you should have backups of important work anyway
[16:10:12] <JamesB192> I suppose they could run a 'ln -s /bin/rubbish /bin/rm' or something during install for people (like me) who have obselete minds.
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[16:12:04] <JamesB192> and/or just connect your disk to the web and let plebs (like me 8-( ) decide what's important enough to backup...
[16:12:41] <[Katisu]> problem at the time was I had a storage quota
[16:13:47] <[Katisu]> they did do backups, but the time it took them to restore it was too long
[16:14:47] <mmu_man> I wrote a /bin/trash command for Haiku btw :p
[16:19:30] * [Katisu] wonders what "trash /bin/trash" does
[16:21:50] <mmu_man> depends if you are root or not :p
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[16:23:53] <ddew> meh, autojoin sucks
[16:24:23] <DeadYak> autojoin?
[16:24:55] <ddew> yeah, i fired up vision on the haikuware image and it immediatly sent me into #haiku
[16:25:04] <DeadYak> ah
[16:25:11] <DeadYak> guess he set up a settings file with that preconfigured?
[16:25:30] <ddew> yup
[16:25:38] <dr_evil> uhh, can't we remove this?
[16:26:12] <DeadYak> dr_evil: ask Haikuware, I don't include one by default
[16:26:43] <Thom_Holwerda> meh autojoins are obnoxious :)
[16:26:58] <DeadYak> I'm assuming he did it by just including a preconfigured settings file anyways, which would be trivial to deal with
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[16:27:17] <DeadYak> also note, Vision -a on the command line will tell it to ignore the auto-connect flag
[16:27:49] <Thom_Holwerda> can you actually add command line arguments to links on BeOS?
[16:28:06] <DeadYak> nope
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[16:28:11] <DeadYak> you can symlink to a shell script that does it though :)
[16:28:18] <Thom_Holwerda> would definitely be something to have
[16:28:26] <Thom_Holwerda> DeadYak: we're not all THAT geeky :P
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[16:28:38] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: not realistic, symbolic links aren't designed to work that way
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[16:28:49] <ddew> this is the first time in the past 10 years or so i\ve used a graphical irc client
[16:29:06] <ddew> it's not everything it's cracked up to be :P
[16:29:15] <Thom_Holwerda> i feel the geek variant of comparing penis length coming up
[16:29:16] <Thom_Holwerda> :P
[16:29:20] * Thom_Holwerda runs
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[16:29:46] <ddew> hehe
[16:30:01] <ddew> i have nothing to hide, irssi-user and proud of it
[16:30:33] * JamesB192 dons asbestos garments and says, 'Text IRC clients suck.' (IMHO)
[16:30:33] <Thom_Holwerda> i need pretty pictures and window frames
[16:30:36] <Thom_Holwerda> and proud of it
[16:31:09] <DeadYak> ddew: text-based IRC clients work fine for me if I'm not doing too much....the load I used to run Vision under involved around 8 concurrent servers with several channels on each
[16:31:16] <ddew> i'm a fan of having the client running in a screen session on one of my servers.
[16:31:23] <DeadYak> at which point I found the switching commands on most CLIs to get absolutely unwieldy
[16:31:32] <DeadYak> especially when it came to activity notifications
[16:31:35] * JamesB192 needs the clickable tabs and/or buttons, with the multiple windows.
[16:31:49] <ddew> yeah, ctrl+n is tricky ;)
[16:31:58] <DocPheniX> JamesB192, im with you
[16:32:02] <ddew> but i must admit, vision is quite nice
[16:32:07] <DeadYak> thanks
[16:32:12] <DocPheniX> i cant stand text mode.
[16:32:19] <mmu_man> I ported rhapsody to BeOS btw
[16:32:21] <Thom_Holwerda> Colloquy ftw
[16:32:27] <mmu_man> it's a curses irc client
[16:33:05] <mmu_man> http://freshmeat.net/projects/rhapsody/
[16:33:28] <DeadYak> does it make you talk like a pirate?
[16:33:29] <DocPheniX> i used linux for several months, i ended up switching back to windows due to a lack of a decent gui irc client, and no xchat doesnt count.
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[16:33:53] <ddew> heh, that's your reason for avoiding linux? sheesh
[16:34:03] <DocPheniX> one of them
[16:34:22] <hUMUNGUs> one of many many reasons...
[16:34:32] <DocPheniX> exactly
[16:34:37] <Thom_Holwerda> my reason to shun windows when it comes to irc... is the lack of a decent graphical irc client
[16:34:51] <DocPheniX> hahahaha
[16:35:03] <Thom_Holwerda> miranda is acceptable for irc, but the idea of running irc in my im client is... unsettling.
[16:35:04] <hUMUNGUs> as soon as haiku installs on my pc, its bye bye XP.
[16:35:19] <DocPheniX> ill more than likely dual boot
[16:35:24] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: I find HydraIRC ok on windows, but nothing I actually find great
[16:35:33] <Thom_Holwerda> hydrairc? it made me cry.
[16:35:35] <ddew> i use whatever works for me, right now vista's treating me well and vmware fills the need to run beos/haiku :)
[16:35:39] <JamesB192> Hah, my sister worships at the mirc temple.  8-p
[16:35:42] <DocPheniX> considering i spent good money on a few music apps that i use regularly on windows
[16:35:45] <hUMUNGUs> i only need XP for streaming football.. or soccer as u "#% americans say.. no offence..
[16:35:53] <DocPheniX> :P
[16:35:53] <hUMUNGUs> :-)
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[16:36:14] <hUMUNGUs> sopcast, tvants, etc etc.
[16:36:41] <hUMUNGUs> if someone needs a project, there's one for you..  Sopcast for Haiku :-)
[16:36:42] <DocPheniX> hUMUNGUs, you should check out reactos, help if you can code
[16:36:43] <DocPheniX> :P
[16:37:01] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: it has its warts, certainly, but I can safely say that for connecting to a bunch of nets concurrently it's been annoying me the least of the stuff I've tried on Win
[16:37:02] <hUMUNGUs> seen it, and no, i dont code. :-(
[16:37:15] <DocPheniX> i follow it regularly
[16:37:16] <Thom_Holwerda> DeadYak: ok
[16:37:23] <hUMUNGUs> ok
[16:37:23] * DocPheniX doesnt code either
[16:37:27] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: I suspect you probably don't use IRC as heavily as me though
[16:37:29] <DocPheniX> unfortunately
[16:37:37] <Thom_Holwerda> DeadYak: definitely.
[16:37:38] <hUMUNGUs> yeah
[16:37:45] <Thom_Holwerda> just freenode, only #haiku
[16:37:51] <Thom_Holwerda> sometimes a few others, but that's rare.
[16:37:52] <CIA-50> axeld * r24913 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp:
[16:37:52] <CIA-50> Applied patch by Christian Fasshauer:
[16:37:52] <CIA-50> * get_dir_path_and_leaf() now removes trailing slashes from the path.
[16:37:52] <CIA-50> * This fixes bug #2016, thanks!
[16:38:01] <DocPheniX> k im off for a while
[16:38:06] <DocPheniX> must sleep
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[16:38:21] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: yea, for that kind of use case something simpler would likely work better
[16:38:36] <Thom_Holwerda> that's why i love colloquy so much
[16:38:51] <Thom_Holwerda> its interface is SO clean
[16:41:03] <Thom_Holwerda> and after a few years, i can finally spell its name without looking at the dock
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[16:46:50] <Thom_Holwerda> hahaha, priceless
[16:47:09] <Thom_Holwerda> i was discussing osnews' permalinks with adam, our web coder
[16:47:27] <Thom_Holwerda> our permalinks include the headline text, right
[16:47:37] <Thom_Holwerda> like this: http://www.osnews.com/story/19615/Ask_OSNews:_Use_of_Brain-Boosting_Drugs_in_the_Software_Industry_
[16:47:37] <DeadYak> uh oh
[16:47:45] <Thom_Holwerda> but i actually changed that headline, since it didnt fit
[16:47:49] <Thom_Holwerda> i removed a definite article
[16:48:06] <Thom_Holwerda> and then i started thinking, will the old one still work? in case someone used it in a link?
[16:48:12] <Thom_Holwerda> and it actually does
[16:48:21] <Thom_Holwerda> so i IM adam, hey, nice work on that!
[16:48:28] <Thom_Holwerda> he sends me this link:
[16:48:40] <Thom_Holwerda> http://osnews.com/story/19615/Thom_Doesnt_Realize_That_The_Text_Is_Irrelevant
[16:48:50] <DeadYak> haha
[16:49:04] <Thom_Holwerda> clever.
[16:49:12] <Thom_Holwerda> pwnd.
[16:52:50] <ddew> anyone here know if the rtl8139 driver is working on haiku?
[16:53:49] <ddew> i tried it on a previous revision where it was pretty unstable but i can't remember which rev it was
[16:54:01] <ddew> has it improved lately?
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[16:57:10] <koki_haiku> ddew, no improvements
[16:57:13] <leszek> hi
[16:57:20] <koki_haiku> still KDLs ocassionally
[16:57:43] <ddew> damn, my trusty eepro100 died on me the other day :(
[16:59:20] <DeadYak> wonder how hard it'be to port FreeBSD's 8139 driver
[16:59:41] <DeadYak> actually wait...
[16:59:45] <DeadYak> I think it is....
[16:59:50] <ddew> isn't that the one in the repo now?
[16:59:57] <DeadYak> yeah, if_rl
[16:59:58] <DeadYak> never mind
[17:00:10] <DeadYak> I thought it was still that old BeOS driver
[17:00:15] <absabs> DeakYak, 8139 has been already supported in Haiku
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[17:00:39] <DeadYak> absabs: I realize it's supported, I just thought it was using the older driver
[17:01:08] <absabs> :)
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[17:01:20] <DeadYak> actually
[17:01:28] <DeadYak> it looks like it might be an older FreeBSD driver though
[17:01:32] <DeadYak> should probably sync it to -7
[17:01:35] <absabs> with the compact layer
[17:01:58] <absabs> I think it's not that hard to port from freebsd
[17:03:05] <DeadYak> I think the 8139 driver in the tree might be a port that was done by hand, not using Hugo's layer
[17:03:09] <koki_haiku> absabs, please port the latest freebsd version to haiku :)
[17:03:18] <ddew> hehe
[17:03:28] <ddew> although DeadYak might be on to something
[17:03:33] <absabs> :p
[17:03:45] <absabs> Let me check the status
[17:03:55] <ddew> wonder if the new driver requires heavy mods to work
[17:03:58] <koki_haiku> my demo machine has a 8139 builtin, so I'm stuck
[17:03:59] <DeadYak> at least from a brief look at it
[17:04:12] <DeadYak> ddew: well, it's not categorized under "FreeBSD 7 drivers" in the Jamfile
[17:04:16] <DeadYak> so I suspect it's something older
[17:04:32] <DeadYak> also looking at it structurally..
[17:04:33] <DeadYak> not sure though
[17:04:34] <absabs> this weekend I have some time to do sth with haiku8-)
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[17:04:55] <koki_haiku> would be nice absabs :)
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[17:05:57] <Stargater> hi
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[17:15:31] <absabs> DeakYak, src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network/rtl8139/pci/if_rl.c is ported from FreeBSD current last year
[17:15:41] <DeadYak> absabs: ah
[17:15:46] <absabs> 2007/07/24 01:24:03
[17:16:01] <DeadYak> I don't remember when 7-release was..
[17:16:10] <DeadYak> a few months ago no?
[17:16:11] <absabs> so it is the sam as FreeBSD 7, IMHO
[17:16:17] <DeadYak> possible
[17:16:24] <DeadYak> could have some bugs that've been fixed though :)
[17:16:54] <absabs> yes, released in Jan
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[17:17:50] <absabs> if_rl.c in FreeBSD current is modified on 2007/12/20
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[17:19:29] <absabs> ah, no. the newest is modified on 2008/03/31
[17:19:33] <absabs> 8-)
[17:19:42] <ddew> if_ndis would be nice to have :)
[17:20:00] <DeadYak> ddew: I suspect that'd take substantially more work :P
[17:20:09] <ddew> just a touch ;)
[17:20:15] <ddew> still, one can dream
[17:20:29] <absabs> ;-)
[17:21:28] <DeadYak> ddew: though I thought nowadays that'd mostly only be useful for a handful of wifi chipsets that OBSD hasn't reverse-engineered support for yet
[17:22:19] <ddew> i see :)
[17:22:35] <ddew> so a obsd network compatibility layer would be a win in other words
[17:22:39] <DeadYak> and maybe one or two eth chipsets that broadcom are asshats about
[17:22:54] <DeadYak> ddew: might not even be necessary if FBSD pulls those drivers over
[17:23:35] <MindChild> I eat glass
[17:24:01] *** dr_evil sets mode: +b *!*@rrcs-24-129-179-67.se.biz.rr.com
[17:24:05] *** MindChild was kicked by dr_evil (dr_evil)
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[17:29:03] <TuneTracker> JonathanThompson tap tap  :-)
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[17:43:22] <stpere> morning :)
[17:43:41] <absabs> good morning
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[17:47:41] <Technix> Ticket 1306488
[17:48:14] <Technix> oops.. wrong window
[17:48:19] <Technix> disregard that
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[18:04:51] <xcasex> why is there no readme on how to set up gcc on haiku?
[18:05:06] <xcasex> i.e binary frm the buildhost and not bootstrapped
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[18:13:50] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24914 /haiku/trunk/ (12 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[18:13:50] <CIA-50> * Renamed THREAD_FLAGS_IOCTL_SYSCALL to THREAD_FLAGS_SYSCALL,
[18:13:50] <CIA-50>  syscall_restart_ioctl_is_restarted() to syscall_restart_is_restarted,
[18:13:50] <CIA-50>  IoctlSyscallFlagUnsetter to SyscallFlagUnsetter, and
[18:13:50] <CIA-50>  IoctlSyscallRestartWrapper to SyscallRestartWrapper, as they are no
[18:13:53] <CIA-50>  longer only used for ioctl().
[18:13:54] <CIA-50> * Removed unused syscall_restart_ioctl_handle_post().
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[18:16:03] <stpere> oh god :-\
[18:16:22] <stpere> our cat disappeared last week
[18:16:22] <stpere> so today, dad went to get a new one
[18:16:36] <stpere> and few minutes ago, the former cat reappeared
[18:16:40] <stpere> now we have 2 cats
[18:17:12] <Teknomancer> HAHA
[18:17:17] <DeadYak> stpere: lol
[18:17:27] <DeadYak> stpere: you mean the second cat that he bought to look like the first?
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[18:17:51] <ari-free> well with 2 cats...there's a possibility for more
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[18:20:26] <stpere> yup
[18:21:15] <ari-free> I'm not a big fan of pets :)
[18:21:36] <ari-free> I think animals belong either in the wild or on the dinner plate :)
[18:23:38] <ampleyfly> ari-free: do you feel better eating animals caught in the wild than animals that have been bred to be eaten?
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[18:24:24] <Lelldorin1> hi all
[18:24:27] <ari-free> well I think animals to be eaten should be domesticated for certain practical reasons
[18:24:31] <ampleyfly> lord lelldorin =)
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[18:26:03] <ari-free> but to take an animals that really belons in the wild and expect it to live as anon wild animals...well let me give an example
[18:26:37] <ari-free> I saw someone with this tiny poodle. he said this dog can only eat a special dog food. anything else would kill it
[18:27:22] <ari-free> To me, that's messed up. A real dog would eat table scraps and the occasional bone
[18:28:04] <stpere> :)
[18:28:35] <ari-free> his dog was bred to 'perfection.' An Eloi dog if you've heard of HG Wells Time machine
[18:29:37] <ari-free> so pretty and delicate...I don't think that pampering is for the good of the animal
[18:30:00] <ari-free> like it's a toy
[18:31:11] <DeadYak> our dog will eat pretty much anything
[18:31:33] <DeadYak> not that that's necessarily a good idea
[18:32:21] <ari-free> well it's only recently that we've seen so many people with all these allergies
[18:32:37] <ari-free> peanut butter banned in schools
[18:32:51] <ari-free> everyone is weaker
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[18:34:51] <DeadYak> ari-free: that's also partly a factor of all the random crap manufacturers put in our food these days
[18:35:06] <ari-free> people don't get out more
[18:35:09] <DeadYak> the ingredient list on a lot of stuff at the grocery store scares me
[18:35:36] <Technix> indee
[18:35:37] <Technix> indeed
[18:36:17] <Technix> they did a study of North American food stores (the supermarkets, the large ones, etc that we all know and loathe), and found that 80% of the CORE of the store, namely the food that is in the center aisles, was entirely not healthy for you
[18:37:06] <Technix> Over in Europe, where I did spend some time enjoying the various cultures, it is still quite common to see hundreds of small shops scattered throughout the city supplying fresh produce, baked goods, and so forth
[18:37:21] <Technix> MUCH MUCH more than what I typically find in large cities in North America
[18:39:12] <ari-free> well now more people eat out
[18:40:17] <Technix> that is not bad, in and of itself.
[18:40:18] <ari-free> but i don't think it's the food. it's not why kids can't eat peanut butter
[18:40:33] <Technix> its eating out and NOT exercising that is killing people. Literally
[18:42:09] <ddew|bofh> you can eat healthy food out as well as you can cook unhealthy food
[18:42:09] <mmu_man> eh
[18:42:19] <Technix> ddew|bofh: true
[18:42:37] <ddew|bofh> the lack of exercise combined with a generally unhealthy "climate" regarding food is the problem
[18:43:12] <ari-free> it really bothers me when foodtv has shows like "unwrapped" instead of real cooking shows
[18:43:37] <DeadYak> ari-free: I dunno, on the other hand some of the stuff on unwrapped might scare people out of eating that crap :P
[18:43:41] <ari-free> that show is basically saying "we're for the worst junk food and we're proud of it!"
[18:44:08] <ddew|bofh> is the problem really the foodshows on tv or is it the fact that people rely on tv for their information?
[18:44:17] <DeadYak> ari-free: there's one or two good shows for healthy cooking on Discovery Health though
[18:44:23] <DeadYak> and yeah, I was about to say, cookbook anyone?
[18:44:33] <ari-free> foodtv really blew it
[18:44:36] <ddew|bofh> i'm all for cookbooks
[18:44:53] <ddew|bofh> atleast the few times i decide to cook :)
[18:45:03] <ari-free> I miss sara moulton :)
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[18:46:10] * Technix loves cooking
[18:46:12] <Technix> and cooking WELL
[18:46:20] <Technix> your body is your temple man
[18:46:41] <ddew|bofh> i love cooking, but i hate spending hours cooking one meal
[18:47:03] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: I usually invite a few friends over when I decide to cook something substantial for that exact reason
[18:48:17] <ddew|bofh> heh, my love for cooking isn't even nearly enough to overcome my dislike for people :)
[18:48:33] <DeadYak> cook for your server farm then :P
[18:49:06] <ddew|bofh> hah, that thought's both intriguing and seriously creepy
[18:49:21] <DeadYak> someone had to say it :)
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[18:49:43] <ddew|bofh> of course
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[19:01:29] <CIA-50> axeld * r24915 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp:
[19:01:29] <CIA-50> The fs_sync() function (or any other, for that matter) must not hold the
[19:01:29] <CIA-50> sMountMutex lock when calling sync() on a file system. This fixes a potential
[19:01:29] <CIA-50> deadlock (I just encountered for the first time).
[19:02:13] <ari-free> ok cya
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[19:35:14] <CIA-50> stippi * r24916 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
[19:35:14] <CIA-50> Applied patch by JiSheng Zhang:
[19:35:14] <CIA-50> Synchronized firewire bus manager with FreeBSD current.
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[20:00:43] <mmu_man> gahhh SANE is INsane
[20:00:54] <mmu_man> configure builds its checks with -pedantic
[20:00:59] <mmu_man> breaks on all C++ comments
[20:03:16] <alexissoft> :)
[20:04:34] *** Stefan100 has joined #haiku
[20:04:37] <Stefan100> meow
[20:05:41] * Stefan100 purrs
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[20:10:00] <DeadYak> mmu_man: as in // ?
[20:10:05] <mmu_man> yes
[20:10:12] <plfiorini> hello world
[20:10:12] <mmu_man> tha'ts not valid C
[20:12:04] <alexissoft> i thought it was /* */ which was not valid C
[20:14:04] <Stefan100> Both are valid, no?
[20:14:21] <DeadYak> alexissoft: /* */ is the original C-style comment
[20:14:25] <alexissoft> ok
[20:14:32] <DeadYak> Stefan100: // is not valid in strict C
[20:14:39] <dr_evil> do we have c++ style comments in C headers? thats not good
[20:15:52] <Stefan100> DeadYak: It is. In C99
[20:17:09] <stpere> 2.95.3 understands C99?
[20:18:09] * Stefan100 purrs
[20:18:45] <DeadYak> stpere: I don't think it recognizes -std=c99
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[20:18:55] <helf> jeez
[20:18:59] <helf> i freaking sprained my ankle at work
[20:19:00] <helf> wtf :P
[20:19:04] <helf> i havnet done that in like 10 years
[20:19:13] <[Katisu]> not fully c99 compliant from what I can tell
[20:19:54] <Teknomancer> hi helf
[20:20:20] <helf> hey tek
[20:20:36] * helf has to go get an akle brace and pain killers when he gets off in 1.5 hours
[20:20:36] * [Katisu] realizes he forgot to change some in his stdint.h patch
[20:21:14] *** Stefan100 has left #haiku
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[20:28:11] * ddew|bofh is idle: busy
[20:28:28] <ddew|bofh> wth, how do i turn turn that off?
[20:28:43] <Teknomancer>  /back?
[20:28:57] <ddew|bofh> the announce that i'm away part
[20:29:04] <alexissoft> ddew|bofh: what is your IRC client ?
[20:29:09] <ddew|bofh> vision
[20:29:15] <alexissoft> arf yes you're right
[20:29:18] <ddew|bofh> i couldn't find it in the settings menus
[20:29:37] * alexissoft has no functional haiku here
[20:30:03] *** meisje has joined #haiku
[20:30:06] * ddew|bofh is on BeOS
[20:30:09] <alexissoft> :)
[20:30:34] *** meisje has quit IRC
[20:30:56] <ddew|bofh> ah well, i'll check into it later :)
[20:31:03] *** kr1stof has left #haiku
[20:32:42] <helf> ddew is in beos?
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[20:42:33] <stpere> anyone going to LUGlive?
[20:42:45] <stpere> LugRadio Live*
[20:44:53] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: there's a Commands section in the prefs
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[20:49:30] <MichaelHenry> DeadYak?
[20:51:04] <Teknomancer> gnite all
[20:51:15] <xcasex> hm. there's no support for CMI audio on haiku? :)
[20:51:39] <stpere> nite Teknomancer
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[20:52:05] <MichaelHenry> Thanks for the work on Haiku. I have a dual boot system now. I had to replace my nvidia with an ati, but it is sweet. Just wanted to give my thanks....
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[21:08:25] <DeadYak> MichaelHenry: cool
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[21:14:03] * pyCube hugs storm
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[21:15:32] * xcasex hugs mr. johnson
[21:18:44] <duaneb> Jam geniuses: help, please
[21:18:45] <duaneb> http://pasteall.com/view.php?p=77
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[21:21:17] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24917 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[21:21:17] <CIA-50> * Added fd_ops::set_flags() hook. It's only implemented by socket FDs
[21:21:17] <CIA-50>  ATM.
[21:21:17] <CIA-50> * Changed common_fcntl() to also work for non-vnode-based FDs. Only the
[21:21:17] <CIA-50>  operations that require a vnode do fail now. F_SETFL uses the new
[21:21:18] <CIA-50>  fd_ops::set_flags() if available, falling back to the vnode respective
[21:21:22] <CIA-50>  operation.
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[21:32:43] <DeadYak> geist: you'd be proud, one of my coworkers has a rickroll IVR set up on a public number now
[21:33:42] * dr_evil hates this rickroll thing
[21:33:54] <DeadYak> it gets old :)
[21:34:19] *** dr_evil sets mode: -b *!*@rrcs-24-129-179-67.se.biz.rr.com
[21:34:48] <helf> I've seen that stupid word a bajillion times the last month
[21:34:54] <helf> it just suddenly popped up
[21:34:55] <duaneb> anyone know a solution to that?
[21:35:00] <duaneb> http://pasteall.com/view.php?p=77
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[21:41:53] * JonathanThompson mews into the channel
[21:42:47] <xcasex> how was it you installed the gcc toolchain on haiku without bootstrapping gcc?
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[21:45:44] <MindChild> tada!
[21:46:50] <xcasex> MindChild: any idea of how and where and what to put where in which file to get development enviroment running in haiku ? :D
[21:47:53] <MindChild> Which environment are you using? And what do you want to get running?
[21:47:58] <MindChild> A compile session?
[21:48:00] <MindChild> an IDE?
[21:48:18] <DeadYak> xcasex: if you mean the devtools, you need to tell your UserBuildConfig to install the optional Development package
[21:48:22] <xcasex> a gcc toolchain :)
[21:48:28] <xcasex> DeadYak: no other way?
[21:48:29] <xcasex> ;_;
[21:48:37] <xcasex> i have binaries :)
[21:48:38] <duaneb> xcasex, in UserBuildConfig, at the bottom, put "AddOptionalHaikuImagePackages Development ;"
[21:48:44] <xcasex> ergh
[21:48:52] <duaneb> but only works with 2.95
[21:48:52] <DeadYak> why would you not want to do it that way?
[21:49:01] <DeadYak> gcc4 hasn't been ported to Haiku properly yet
[21:49:05] <xcasex> i have a semi-working haiku install already
[21:49:14] <xcasex> and i dont want to hassle through it again :)
[21:49:16] <duaneb> DeadYak, remind me again, why is 2.95 being used?
[21:49:21] <DeadYak> bin compat.
[21:49:27] <xcasex> ^^^
[21:50:47] <duaneb> ....why!?!?!
[21:50:58] <duaneb> what closed source app do we want?
[21:50:58] <DeadYak> how many times are you going to bitch about that?
[21:51:00] <DeadYak> you've asked that question 50 times now
[21:51:05] <DeadYak> you get the same answer every time
[21:51:08] <DeadYak> enough already.
[21:51:46] <MYOB> find us an office suite and a number of audio/video apps before asking that question again thanks
[21:51:49] <duaneb> actually, only once
[21:51:55] <duaneb> and I don't remember the answer :P
[21:52:26] <DeadYak> you've whined about that more than once dude
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[21:53:02] <duaneb> ...no
[21:53:09] <DeadYak> ...yes
[21:53:22] <xcasex> grouphug?
[21:53:51] <duaneb> as long as gcc 2.95 isn't included
[21:54:31] <DeadYak> shrug if you don't want 2.95 then wait until 4's ported, use 4 and stop bitching
[21:55:41] * JonathanThompson starts shooting people to bypass the deadlock
[21:56:26] <duaneb> DeadYak, it just doesn't make sens
[21:56:27] <duaneb> +e
[21:56:37] <duaneb> I haven't even run across a closed source Be app yet
[21:57:28] * JonathanThompson laughs uproariously
[21:57:54] <JonathanThompson> That just shows how ignorant you are of BeBits and BeOS/Haiku history and what's existed before and currently does ;)
[21:58:15] <duaneb> JonathanThompson, I never claimed otherwise
[21:58:34] <JonathanThompson> Go to BeBits.com and look around.
[22:01:11] <duaneb> Is there any way to map the alt key to the super (windows/apple's command) key, and vice versa?
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[22:03:15] <duaneb> anywho, if anyone is experience with Jam, I'd appreciate it if they could help with this: http://pasteall.com/view.php?p=77
[22:03:56] <duaneb> and on the gcc thing: why is it that the two compilers are incompatible? on my linux and mac systems, I have both gcc 3.4 and gcc 4.[01] installed
[22:04:03] *** leszek has joined #haiku
[22:04:54] <leszek> re
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[22:05:24] <DeadYak> duaneb: C++ ABI
[22:05:38] <DeadYak> duaneb: the gcc guys fucked up and came up with a naming scheme that could generate duplicate symbols
[22:05:57] <geist> to be fair i think it was features that came later that broke it
[22:06:03] <geist> specifically namespaces, I believe
[22:06:12] <DeadYak> geist: 2.x does namespaces though
[22:06:24] <DeadYak> geist: at least jbq told me it was duplicate symbols that caused the 2->3 break anyways
[22:06:29] <geist> oh oh, yeah. i'm thinking about 2-3
[22:06:38] <geist> i think it was namespaces that could cause it
[22:06:41] <DeadYak> ah.
[22:06:46] <duaneb> sadness.
[22:06:49] <DeadYak> I dunno what happened in mid 3 that caused them to break it again
[22:06:50] <duaneb> no takers on the jam thing?
[22:07:03] <aljen> duaneb: haiku jamfiles ?
[22:07:09] <duaneb> yea
[22:07:17] <aljen> duaneb: one sec
[22:07:22] <duaneb> http://pasteall.com/view.php?p=77
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[22:08:10] <EuanK> hi everybody!
[22:08:22] <DeadYak> Hi Dr Nick!
[22:08:29] <EuanK> hehe you got it!
[22:08:39] <DeadYak> wild guess :)
[22:08:45] <DeadYak> and I've been watching too much simpsons lately
[22:09:07] <EuanK> I'm never back from work in time these days.  I need to make do with family guy late at night
[22:09:34] <DeadYak> I'm a tumorI'm a  tumorI'm a tumor
[22:10:22] <aljen> duaneb: http://pasteall.com/view.php?p=78
[22:10:55] <EuanK> uhhuh?
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[22:11:30] <geist> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3KANI2dpXLw
[22:11:33] <duaneb> aljen, ehh?
[22:11:39] <geist> muppets are great
[22:11:56] <DeadYak> that URL better not be rick...
[22:11:59] <duaneb> aljen, I'm looking on how to combine multiple c files into an archive (easy)
[22:12:00] <DeadYak> oh good, it isn't :)
[22:12:22] <duaneb> aljen, problem is, they are in multiple directories
[22:12:38] <DeadYak> tar doesn't seem to have an option to omit the dirs
[22:12:41] <DeadYak> zip would though
[22:12:54] <aljen> yeah
[22:13:09] <aljen> duaneb: and http://pasteall.com/view.php?p=79
[22:13:13] <aljen> example Jamfile
[22:13:41] <aljen> sources dirs are defined in sourcesDirs var and iterated by for and added to SEARCH_SOURCE
[22:14:00] <stpere> we returned the kitten :(
[22:14:01] <aljen> later in you SharedLibrary or Application or whatever you just add files from that dirs without dir prefix
[22:14:13] <duaneb> oh, nifty
[22:14:17] <duaneb> aljen, thanks much
[22:14:21] <aljen> np
[22:14:43] <geist> never gonna give never gonna give
[22:14:46] <geist> (give you up)
[22:15:33] <DeadYak> geist: 213-271-1252
[22:18:17] <geist> what you say!!
[22:18:23] <DeadYak> :P
[22:20:04] <DeadYak> bbl
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[22:31:13] <geist> :( doesn't build on gcc 4 with some of the syscall stuff
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[22:34:41] <duaneb> damnit
[22:35:01] <duaneb> I hate it when a header is in the include path but apparently doesn't exist
[22:35:46] <EuanK> I hate it when you have soo much code to port you don't know where to start and go round in circles :)
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[22:36:06] <Stargater> re
[22:36:16] <stpere> EuanK: hehe :)
[22:36:18] <aljen> EuanK: true ;D
[22:36:24] <aljen> hey stpere
[22:36:30] <duaneb> how can that be!?!
[22:36:34] <aljen> Stargater ;P
[22:36:39] <duaneb> I can clearly find the header file
[22:36:47] <stpere> hi
[22:36:52] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24918 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/kernel/syscall_restart.h:
[22:36:52] <CIA-50> Yep, first clear THREAD_FLAGS_SYSCALL, then check whether it is set.
[22:36:52] <CIA-50> That would explain why syscall restarts were broken. In fact there's no
[22:36:52] <CIA-50> reason to check the flag at all, since we know we set it.
[22:36:52] <CIA-50> ftp appears to work again.
[22:37:15] <stpere> my heart is broken :P
[22:37:37] <Stargater> hi aljen
[22:39:45] <duaneb> what's the <> version of SubDirHdrs?
[22:39:46] <Stargater> reboot
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[22:40:37] <aljen> duaneb: you mean <something> ?
[22:40:44] <duaneb> yea
[22:41:05] <ddew|bofh> heh, however calls beos responsive haven't tried to do anything while the hard-drive is working :P
[22:41:06] <aljen> i thinkg its jam target, for example <Tracker> but i could be wrong at that :)
[22:41:22] <duaneb> no, sorry, #include <foobar.h>
[22:41:29] <duaneb> I hesitate to use SubDirSysHdrs
[22:42:06] <aljen> duaneb: <something.h> is in system include dirs, "something.h" is in local app inc dir
[22:42:23] <duaneb> aljen, yea, but how can I add a system include path?
[22:42:36] <duaneb> I'm porting, so editing the source might not always be the best thing to do
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[22:42:48] <stargater> re
[22:43:41] <CIA-50> bonefish * r24919 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/unix/UnixEndpoint.cpp:
[22:43:41] <CIA-50> Resolved TODOs: We now do know whether the call comes from userland or
[22:43:42] <CIA-50> the kernel.
[22:43:43] <aljen> duaneb: edit jamfile ? you could add UseLibraryHeaders yourlib ; to jamfile and put all headers in trunk/headers/libs/yourlib
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[22:44:07] <duaneb> aljen, I suppose
[22:44:49] <duaneb> I'm trying to force python into the jam build system, but I'm not sure if I want to do that
[22:44:58] <duaneb> I'd rather just have one directory
[22:46:13] <EuanK> off to try a new linux driver.  I'll probably be lost in a terminal for a long time trying to repair it...
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[22:46:30] <aljen> duaneb: maybe UsePublicHeaders $(HAIKU_TOP) src apps python ; or wherever you put this ? :)
[22:47:09] <duaneb> ok, that works
[22:49:29] <aljen> but if you're trying to port python, put it in trunk/src/bin/python i think
[22:49:43] <stargater> ipro1000 dont work here, ping is ok, but network info app say NO LINK
[22:49:54] <stargater> no irc , no web
[22:49:56] <stargater> :(
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[22:51:07] <duaneb> yea, that's where I put it
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[22:54:16] <duaneb> woot
[22:54:20] <duaneb> it compiled
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[23:00:12] <inseculous> anybody know if the audigy's mic port can be stereo?
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[23:03:53] <duaneb> woot
[23:03:56] <duaneb> 165 karma on reddit
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[23:36:39] <leszek> n8
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[23:52:41] <CIA-50> mmlr * r24920 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/ports/usb_serial/ (Driver.cpp SerialDevice.cpp SerialDevice.h): (log message trimmed)
[23:52:41] <CIA-50> Correct the way serial devices are deleted. They are either deleted on removal
[23:52:41] <CIA-50> when they are not open or they are deleted on free when they are already
[23:52:41] <CIA-50> removed. This should fix the sudden crashes when you unplugged a device that
[23:52:42] <CIA-50> might not have been fully closed yet.
[23:52:45] <CIA-50> Also handle the case of removal correctly and don't use the usb_device anymore
[23:52:46] <CIA-50> after releasing it by returning from the device removed hook. Calls to the
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   April 11, 2008  
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