[00:08:55] <ari-free> I wonder if something like the mozilla talkback feature would be good for haiku. I think MS has something like this as well
[00:09:18] <ari-free> http://www.mozilla.org/quality/qfa.html
[00:09:59] <ari-free> ooo thats the old one
[00:10:50] <ari-free> http://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Talkback
[00:11:39] <ari-free> oh there's a new one now for firefox 3? http://kb.mozillazine.org/Breakpad
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[00:12:17] <axeld> ari-free: as long as that would actually work when there is something buggy... :-)
[00:12:37] <leavengood> ari-free: I was thinking about that lately actually, after looking at the Apple one
[00:12:45] <leavengood> I tend to find them more annoying than useful
[00:12:46] <ari-free> the mozilla people have a lot of success with that system
[00:13:09] <leavengood> by Apple one I mean the one for OS X Leopard
[00:13:15] <axeld> night everyone
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[00:13:20] <leavengood> night axeld
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[00:13:34] <stippi> for me too, good night!
[00:13:41] <ari-free> annoying for beta users or annoying for final release users who just want to get on with life? :)
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[00:13:56] <Barrett666> n8 everybody
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[00:14:59] <ari-free> because the beta testers will want to try to crash the OS like crazy but they might not know how to report a bug
[00:15:09] <leavengood> ari-free: good point
[00:15:26] <ari-free> like cough cough me :)
[00:15:33] <leavengood> ari-free: maybe we can look at the Mozilla system and copy it or maybe use it outright
[00:16:15] <ari-free> this is a new system and not proprietary
[00:16:37] <leavengood> let me check the link
[00:17:02] <ari-free> and also http://code.google.com/p/google-breakpad/
[00:17:19] <Nedlinpopo> has anyone used qemu succesfully to boot haiku?
[00:18:26] <leavengood> Nedlinpopo: yes several have, including me, though not for a while in my case
[00:18:48] <Nedlinpopo> what was the magic to do it?
[00:18:58] <Nedlinpopo> i keep getting it to segfault
[00:19:02] <leavengood> ari-free: the only problem I see is that could be used for application-level errors, but kernel errors will still need manual reporting
[00:19:18] <leavengood> Nedlinpopo: on what OS?
[00:19:26] <Nedlinpopo> os X intel
[00:19:39] <leavengood> hmmm
[00:20:02] <ari-free> true but you have a nice big OS to deal with unlike say linux
[00:20:06] <leavengood> I know for myself on BeOS I needed a certain version of QEMU, but I am not sure about Mac OS X
[00:20:14] <Nedlinpopo> vmware is doinng it, but i dont' like it.
[00:21:28] <leavengood> ari-free: we already have a system that catches application errors and can bring up the debugger...it probably would be fairly easy to add an option for reporting the error
[00:21:45] <leavengood> I'll put that on my list of things to look into
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[00:21:51] <ari-free> ok great
[00:22:41] <ari-free> keep track of stats and stuff
[00:23:03] <leavengood> yeah now is as good a time as any to get that working
[00:24:21] <ari-free> another q: will haiku get on coverity?
[00:28:17] <leavengood> I think we have looked at that before
[00:28:26] <leavengood> it may just be a matter of submitting something
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[00:31:12] <ari-free> i think klockwork also has free testing for open source
[00:33:14] <DeadYak> leavengood: one hurdle is you need to be able to be built via pkgsrc
[00:33:19] <DeadYak> leavengood: iirc.
[00:33:34] <DeadYak> for coverity's system that is
[00:33:40] <ari-free> can you do that
[00:33:51] <mmadia> i've really been meaning to try getting something like mozilla's tinderbox set up for haiku
[00:34:06] <DeadYak> ari-free: would just take some time and effort on someone's part :)
[00:34:18] <ari-free> i mean is it a very big job?
[00:34:26] <DeadYak> that I don't know
[00:34:45] <DeadYak> as far as I'm aware it's pretty much an instruction file that specifies how to get and build the source
[00:34:50] <DeadYak> but I haven't looked in detail
[00:35:43] <ari-free> coverity should save a lot of time
[00:36:55] <leavengood> ari-free: it might be useful for you to research what it takes to get into coverity (like pkgsrc) and see what might be involved for that
[00:37:10] <leavengood> even if you aren't a coder you could form a game plan
[00:37:12] <leavengood> ;)
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[00:38:26] <ari-free> ok
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[00:38:48] <ari-free> http://www.nabble.com/Re:-ATLAS-and-Coverity-td12684202.html
[00:39:14] <ari-free> http://www.netbsd.org/docs/pkgsrc/creating.html
[00:39:54] <ari-free> maybe that should help
[00:40:05] <leavengood> indeed it does
[00:40:37] <ari-free> :)
[00:41:03] <leavengood> yeah that and the Breakpad link are definitely the better ways to get new features added to Haiku
[00:42:01] <ari-free> thanks
[00:43:01] <ari-free> i like to follow what mozilla does
[00:43:41] <ari-free> it's the biggest open source project and not gpl
[00:44:31] <leavengood> yeah they have learned the hard way how to do things
[00:44:44] * DeadYak notes that he was by and large not impressed by bugzilla
[00:45:44] <leavengood> nobody ever seems totally happy with any bug tracker
[00:45:52] <leavengood> there are like hundreds at this point
[00:46:11] <leavengood> I don't really like Trac after trying to install it at work
[00:46:16] <leavengood> but for Haiku it seems fine
[00:46:16] <ari-free> I just read this today http://nielx.blogspot.com/2005/04/quality-assurance-getting-started.html
[00:58:08] <stpere> evening :)
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[01:01:59] <koki_haiku> leavengood, you can never make everyone happy, can you? :)
[01:02:18] <leavengood> nope
[01:02:45] <leavengood> if I could figure out what you guys did to connect trac to the web-site's user database, I might use it at work...but it seems like a hassle ;)
[01:03:02] <koki_haiku> niels would know
[01:03:10] <leavengood> yeah I suppose I should ask
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[01:03:23] <koki_haiku> I should say: niels does know :)
[01:03:29] <leavengood> right
[01:03:30] <leavengood> hehe
[01:03:49] <koki_haiku> it was actually implemented by waldemar though
[01:04:29] <leavengood> yeah I think I remember that
[01:04:51] <koki_haiku> he was the Trac proselitist :)
[01:05:21] * koki_haiku wonders if that words exists in english
[01:05:32] <leavengood> I get the meaning ;)
[01:05:36] <ari-free> evangelist
[01:05:51] <leavengood> pretty much
[01:05:54] <koki_haiku> ah, I misspelled it: it's "proselytist"
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[01:06:43] * leavengood suddenly appreciates Mac OS X when he can look that up with a right-click
[01:07:10] <pyCube> heh
[01:07:17] <leavengood> it brought up the wikipedia article
[01:07:23] <koki_haiku> leavengood, Vision can do the same thing
[01:07:28] <leavengood> I've been love-hate with Leopard today
[01:07:30] <pyCube> clearly youve moved beyond the one mouse button nonsense
[01:07:36] <leavengood> koki_haiku: ah, cool
[01:07:55] <leavengood> pyCube: overall I'm pretty anti-Mac
[01:08:01] <koki_haiku> maybe it needs to be updated though; adding Wikipedia lookup would be nice
[01:08:06] <leavengood> I decided to start using one at work for the heck of it
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[01:08:31] <leavengood> my old joke about the one-button mouse is the round ones for the old iMacs
[01:08:36] <leavengood> I call them "Horse-mice"
[01:08:42] <leavengood> a horse could use it
[01:09:02] <leavengood> the puck-mouse I guess is what other people called it
[01:09:17] <leavengood> these supposed "mighty mice" aren't much better
[01:09:35] <leavengood> though I like the new chiclet keyboard
[01:09:46] <duaneb> Yea, that was a big fuckup
[01:09:52] <duaneb> err, excuse my french
[01:09:53] <koki_haiku> the word proselytism is derived from the greek language, where it is prohibited by the constitution. :)
[01:10:02] <leavengood> anyhow, using the Mac has not disuaded me from continuing to work on Haiku
[01:10:03] <duaneb> usually I watch my language better on irc :|
[01:10:10] <duaneb> leavengood++
[01:10:15] <Stargater> hi leavengood thanks for your mail, i hope you find time to do layout docu :-)
[01:10:41] <leavengood> Stargater: I was doing some research about that...the Haiku layout system is much like that from Qt
[01:10:56] <leavengood> so until I write my doc you can read about QLayout ;)
[01:11:00] <ari-free> why can't apple just get their mouse together. like my beloved MS intelli 3
[01:11:03] <duaneb> BeOS reminds me of the mac so much that I truly enjoy working on it
[01:11:25] <Stargater> :-)
[01:11:40] <Stargater> i have not work with qt :)
[01:11:49] <ari-free> i hate using a mouse with no back button
[01:11:51] <koki_haiku> hello Stargater
[01:11:55] <leavengood> me niether, but there docs aren't bad
[01:11:56] <Stargater> hi koki_haiku
[01:12:13] <duaneb> qt isn't bad
[01:12:20] <pyCube> qt is very nice
[01:12:27] <koki_haiku> oh no! osnews does not render properly in Net+ anymore!
[01:12:39] <koki_haiku> we need a webkit browser soon :P
[01:12:40] <xcasex> hehe
[01:12:45] <leavengood> hehe
[01:13:00] <leavengood> koki_haiku: only if you use Haiku, don't think WebKit will ever be on BeOS
[01:13:08] <leavengood> but that has been on my mind lately
[01:13:17] <leavengood> Firefox is getting too much credit ;)
[01:13:34] <koki_haiku> leavengood, it's Haiku only here. don't use BeOS anymore
[01:13:36] <ari-free> XUL rules
[01:13:45] <leavengood> koki_haiku: hey alright
[01:13:48] <Stargater> ok its late here, i need a handfull sleep , n8 all
[01:13:54] <leavengood> I need to do that soon
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[01:14:09] <leavengood> get a full blown Haiku system going that is
[01:14:22] <leavengood> time to step away from the VMware teet
[01:14:23] <duaneb> I would, but haiku's internet doesn't work on my machine... :(
[01:14:42] <koki_haiku> leavengood, regarding FF vs. webkit, in my country we say "a falta de pan, buenas son las tortas" which means something like "when there is no bread, crackers are good enough"
[01:14:58] <leavengood> koki_haiku: indeed
[01:14:59] <duaneb> koki_haiku, good advice!
[01:15:30] <koki_haiku> so for now, I am using FF for show and tell; but I am looking forward to the day we can have a webkit based browser.
[01:15:35] <leavengood> I hope long term both flourish on Haiku, but just like on other systems, Firefox will always seem a little "distant" from the OS
[01:16:21] <leavengood> I want the WebKit browser very nicely integrated and "Haiku-ish"
[01:16:29] <leavengood> but I've said all this before...just need to do it
[01:16:29] <duaneb> it's getting better, but I think webkit is the future
[01:16:30] <koki_haiku> that would be nice
[01:16:33] <pyCube> ...until webkit is old-hat and featureful and the object of ridicule
[01:16:42] <leavengood> pyCube: exactly
[01:16:48] <duaneb> It's faster, it's more standards compliant, it integrates better with the environment
[01:17:06] <leavengood> it passes Acid3
[01:17:11] <leavengood> for whatever that is worth
[01:17:14] <duaneb> well, 'passes'
[01:17:15] <koki_haiku> on a related note, recently the gnome default browser (can't remember name) announced they are moving to webkit
[01:17:23] <leavengood> yeah
[01:17:25] <leavengood> epiphany
[01:17:29] <koki_haiku> right
[01:17:34] <duaneb> webkit > gecko
[01:17:37] <leavengood> Alp Toker is a real smart guy
[01:17:40] <duaneb> anyone arguing?
[01:17:44] <leavengood> he is the main GTK WebKit guy
[01:17:50] <ari-free> but what about all those firefox extensions
[01:18:05] <koki_haiku> it was anounced on April 1, so many thught it was a joke, but apparently it was not
[01:18:10] <leavengood> ari-free: do those even work in Epiphany?
[01:18:15] <duaneb> I don't think those have anything to do with the kit...
[01:18:34] <ari-free> they work in Flock
[01:18:35] <leavengood> ari-free: in general though, you have a point
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[01:18:51] <ari-free> and all that xul stuff
[01:19:04] <ari-free> songbird
[01:19:07] <leavengood> ari-free: I have thought about that and figure the more useful and popular ones could be "ported" or reimplemented
[01:19:10] <koki_haiku> I think having a couple of open source browsers competing with each other is a healthy situation
[01:19:18] <leavengood> I for one would like a WebKit Greasemonkey
[01:19:35] <leavengood> koki_haiku: definitely
[01:20:08] <ari-free> this is interesting http://www.allpeers.com/blog/2007/10/05/should-mozilla-drop-gecko-for-webkit/
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[01:22:42] <koki_haiku> yesterday I was testing printing from Haiku, and I was surprised to see that it prints Japanese quite well (could never make that work in Zeta)
[01:22:43] <duaneb> am I wasting my time trying to make a bin command for python?
[01:22:56] <duaneb> will it ever get integrated into beos, or will it be an addon? :/
[01:23:24] <leavengood> duaneb: long term I would like to see plenty of well integrated scripting languages
[01:23:36] <duaneb> leavengood, automatically?
[01:23:37] <leavengood> I am a Rubyist myself, but have a healthy respect for Python
[01:23:55] <leavengood> duaneb: what do you mean?
[01:24:05] <duaneb> leavengood, I was a rubyist
[01:24:19] <duaneb> I mean, you install haiku and you have python automatically
[01:24:46] <ari-free> I could see 3 browsers for haiku. firefox, a native gecko browser and a native webkit browser
[01:24:55] <koki_haiku> leavengood, I already heard from a (former BeOS) Japanese dev that he would like to get Ruby running in Haiku
[01:25:05] <duaneb> ari-free, but why the gecko one?
[01:25:17] <duaneb> koki_haiku, I have ruby running, albeit with shaky thread support
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[01:25:28] <koki_haiku> oh, cool
[01:25:36] <duaneb> koki_haiku, but I want to get python stabilized before I attack ruby
[01:25:44] <duaneb> python seems to be the more popular language
[01:25:50] <stpere> err.. I call B_SKIP_MESSAGE in my filter and the caps lock still go through
[01:26:05] <stpere> erm, not call but return
[01:26:47] <ari-free> well it would be a lot like firefox but use more of the OS (like use the fs for bookmarks)
[01:26:55] <leavengood> stpere: does it really turn on caps_lock, or just the light?
[01:26:59] <ari-free> thats an idea
[01:27:05] <stpere> really turns on
[01:27:18] <leavengood> I was thinking about it and thought that we might need to fix the LED stuff for a filter like yours to work right
[01:27:36] <ari-free> is it worth the effort i dunno
[01:27:37] <duaneb> ari-free, really, why do we need it?
[01:27:42] <stpere> looks like it sets the led before sending the message
[01:27:44] <leavengood> ari-free: I plan to do that for the WebKit browser and hopefully others would use it too
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[01:27:52] <koki_haiku> everybody seems to be coming out with UMPCs: http://japanese.engadget.com/tag/HP2133/
[01:27:58] <stpere> plus, it assign the modifiers before getting the result
[01:28:17] <ari-free> firefox now uses its own sqlite database
[01:28:25] <leavengood> koki_haiku: we need a UMPC for Haiku ;)
[01:28:36] <leavengood> ari-free: WebKit too
[01:28:45] <duaneb> ooh, leavengood, you're doing the webkit port?
[01:28:46] <ari-free> for bookmarks?
[01:28:54] <leavengood> well WebKit uses SQLite for the client side databases
[01:28:57] <leavengood> duaneb: yeah
[01:29:07] <leavengood> bookmarks are up to the platform
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[01:29:11] <duaneb> you inspired me to do python :D
[01:29:14] <oco> about ruby : i have not tested a lot but i have compiled ruby under Haiku with the patch in this bug
[01:29:19] <leavengood> duaneb: hehehe, great
[01:29:41] <pyCube> mm.. pyhton
[01:29:43] <ari-free> all bookmarks and history are in the database and they integrated it with the addressbar
[01:29:44] <pyCube> er, python
[01:29:45] <leavengood> duaneb: you cross compiling or developing on Haiku itself now?
[01:29:46] <pyCube> heh
[01:29:46] <ari-free> I like it
[01:30:02] <leavengood> ari-free: you talking about FF3?
[01:30:07] <ari-free> yup
[01:30:11] <duaneb> leavengood, well, internet doesn't work on my hardware, and vmware is a pain in the butt
[01:30:15] <duaneb> so I cross compile for now
[01:30:17] <leavengood> ari-free: haven't tried it yet, but saw it on a friend's computer
[01:30:30] <leavengood> duaneb: yeah, understood, I still am too
[01:30:45] <leavengood> but I want to move my WebKit development there
[01:30:48] <koki_haiku> ari-free, are you trying to get FF3 to work in Haiku?
[01:30:51] <oco> this is the bug : http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/2041
[01:31:15] <ari-free> heh first it has to work in windows :)
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[01:31:38] <leavengood> stpere: if you want to open a bug and attach your input filter I can take a look
[01:32:01] <stpere> ok :)
[01:32:07] <ari-free> we had a problem with it on the pc upstairs and was promptly uninstalled
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[01:32:12] <duaneb> oco, I got ruby working
[01:32:20] <leavengood> stpere: assign me as the dev, same name as here
[01:32:21] <oco> me too :-)
[01:32:21] <duaneb> lemme see if I can whip up a patch...
[01:32:27] <duaneb> oh
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[01:32:45] <leavengood> I also want to get Rubinius working on Haiku at some point
[01:32:45] <oco> except a bug in multichars function in Haiku
[01:32:45] <koki_haiku> back from kdl
[01:32:46] <leavengood> hehe
[01:32:54] <leavengood> koki_haiku: doh
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[01:32:58] <stpere> hmm, question
[01:32:59] <oco> the reason of the bug entry
[01:33:15] <ozy`> leavengood: you know that's a great idea for a summer of code project
[01:33:23] <ozy`> I hope you (or someone) submitted it :\
[01:33:24] <ari-free> ok the reason for a native gecko browser is: webapps
[01:33:31] <duaneb> what IS rubinius?
[01:33:31] <stpere> should I just return B_SKIP_MESSAGE or rather also send a modified message?
[01:33:32] <leavengood> ozy`: Rubinius?
[01:33:40] <ozy`> leavengood: rubinius on haiku
[01:33:46] <stpere> err.. -also
[01:33:49] <ozy`> duaneb: it's a new virtual machine for ruby
[01:33:51] <leavengood> ozy`: damn, good point, grrr, I should have done that, I would be the perfect mentor
[01:33:56] <duaneb> ahh
[01:34:05] <leavengood> but it might be too easy actually
[01:34:08] <leavengood> though who knows
[01:34:47] <leavengood> stpere: I would think B_SKIP_MESSAGE would be enough, I'm not really an expert on input filters
[01:35:21] <leavengood> there are just too many interesting projects out there and not enough time
[01:35:30] <leavengood> I just need to quit my job or something
[01:35:30] <leavengood> hehe
[01:35:37] <leavengood> I have saved up some money...............
[01:35:56] <duaneb> meh, I'm a second semester junior
[01:35:57] <ozy`> duaneb: there are only two ruby VMs that I know of that aren't to the effect of "ruby on java" or "ruby on .net"
[01:36:04] <duaneb> talk about no time :P
[01:36:08] <duaneb> yarv and rubinius?
[01:36:11] <ozy`> yep
[01:36:13] <duaneb> and the 1.8 one?
[01:36:21] <ozy`> 1.8 has no VM whatsoever
[01:36:32] <ozy`> which is its main problem, in terms of speed
[01:36:35] <duaneb> ahh
[01:36:49] <leavengood> also known as MRI: Matz's Ruby Interpreter
[01:37:00] <leavengood> which is what you guys are porting
[01:37:08] <duaneb> no, I ported 1.9
[01:37:11] <pyCube> pssh.. vm's
[01:37:16] <leavengood> duaneb: oh OK
[01:37:26] <oco> 1.8 for me :-)
[01:37:29] <leavengood> 1.8 might still be good too
[01:37:33] <leavengood> we need both
[01:37:40] <duaneb> oco, that might explain a lot
[01:37:45] <leavengood> hehe
[01:37:50] <duaneb> oco, mine compiled pretty easily
[01:37:51] <ozy`> duaneb: 1.9 retains a lot of the code from 1.8, but has yarv hacked into it
[01:38:06] <duaneb> ruby = hack
[01:38:14] <ozy`> whereas rubinius is written from the ground up to be a clean VM design
[01:38:24] <duaneb> not that that's different from 90% of OSS
[01:38:30] <ozy`> yeah
[01:38:38] <oco> mine compiled pretty easily too bug i found two haiku's bug during the process
[01:38:54] <oco> mine compiled pretty easily too but i found two haiku's bug during the process
[01:39:18] <ozy`> ruby actually has a nice syntax, even if the current implementations kinda suck :p
[01:39:29] <ozy`> (syntax, semantics, etc.)
[01:39:32] <duaneb> I dunno.. python is growing on my
[01:39:34] <duaneb> me*
[01:39:45] <ozy`> I'm working on a python program as we speak
[01:39:49] <ozy`> python is mostly OK
[01:39:55] <ozy`> but it doesn't feel as natural
[01:40:04] <duaneb> I dislike Guido's tyrannical control, because I think it stops a lot of cool features
[01:40:37] <pyCube> um
[01:40:38] <pyCube> wait a sec
[01:40:43] <leavengood> I too prefer the Ruby syntax, but given time could get used to Python I think
[01:41:17] <pyCube> features?
[01:41:39] <leavengood> OK guys, have to head home, may be back later
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[01:41:46] <ozy`> peace
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[01:41:58] <koki_haiku> DHowett, have a question for you
[01:42:12] <oco> well time to sleep here...
[01:42:24] <koki_haiku> the two builds that made for me in the past, were they using the old or new IDE stack?
[01:42:30] <koki_haiku> night oco
[01:42:46] <oco> thanks
[01:43:07] * pyCube hugs TextMate
[01:43:18] <DHowett> There's a new/old IDE stack? They're using whatever the standard was in the jam/HaikuImage file, plus all the USB stacks.
[01:43:22] <duaneb> by oco
[01:43:23] <duaneb> bye*
[01:43:50] <duaneb> pyCube, like rejecting ruby-style blocks, even though they are far more elegent than any for loop
[01:43:56] <duaneb> or lambda expression
[01:44:18] <oco> koki_haiku : maybe good evening for you ?
[01:44:29] <pyCube> duaneb: prove it
[01:44:34] <pyCube> hehe
[01:45:20] <koki_haiku> oco, it's 4:45PM here :)
[01:45:40] <koki_haiku> DHowett, the default is the old IDE stack, and that one works fine on my HW.
[01:45:52] <oco> so, bye
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[01:47:22] <stpere> how can I assign the bug to leavengood?
[01:47:35] <stpere> I don't see the option in trac..
[01:47:35] <koki_haiku> DHowett, the thing is that your builds worked nicely on my laptop, and did not show the sound crackling and video frame drops that I see with the builds from the factory.
[01:48:03] <DHowett> hmmmm...
[01:48:06] <koki_haiku> stpere, I think it depends on the component that yu choose
[01:48:21] <duaneb> pyCube, good point, he hasn't explicitly blocked them, but he's against adding them even though people have talked about it at least once a month, if not week
[01:48:43] <stpere> oh ok
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[01:48:56] <pyCube> duaneb: i dont see why python needs it
[01:49:07] <pyCube> people ask for all sorts of crazy shit
[01:49:15] <duaneb> pyCube, because they are far more elegant than anything python has
[01:49:26] <pyCube> arguably, at best
[01:49:48] <duaneb> also, I hate python's way of doing everything one way
[01:49:49] <zlominus> Is it posible just to drop haiku image file onto usb keychain using dd in linux ? (I want to test it on eeepc, I know there is a ticket for it, but want to try again ... )
[01:49:59] <pyCube> duaneb: such as?
[01:50:07] <duaneb> killing reduce
[01:50:12] <duaneb> or at least moving it to functools
[01:50:18] <duaneb> it's a useful function
[01:50:18] <pyCube> why is that bad?
[01:50:34] <pyCube> um.. ok
[01:50:58] <pyCube> all that stuff in functools is neat, but not very pythony
[01:51:18] <pyCube> and not exactly 'natural'
[01:51:54] <duaneb> import operator; reduce(operator.mul, [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8], 1)
[01:51:59] <duaneb> voila, factorial
[01:52:59] <DHowett> I don't know what I'm doing differently from the build factory. As far as I know, it uses unmodified jamfiles...
[01:52:59] <DHowett> hmm
[01:53:18] <DeadYak> zlominus: if it's built with usb in the boot modules, yes.
[01:55:06] <DHowett> koki_haiku: Where in the tree is the new driver? I can't find mention of it in add-ons/kernel/busses
[01:55:09] <duaneb> DHowett, did you add it to HaikuImage?
[01:55:28] <zlominus> DeadYak: I gess I should turn such a thing on in som of Jam targets ?
[01:55:32] <zlominus> *guess
[01:55:38] <zlominus> *some
[01:56:15] <koki_haiku> DHowett, I have no idea
[01:56:27] <DHowett> duaneb: I did not add anything but the rest of the USB Host Controllers to the HaikuImage. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing differently that makes a working build for Koki :)
[01:56:38] <DeadYak> zlominus: that I don't know I'm afraid.
[01:56:49] <duaneb> grab koki's diff
[01:56:50] <DeadYak> DHowett: src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/Jamfile
[01:56:57] <DeadYak> DHowett: you need to use ata instead of ide in there
[01:57:05] <DHowett> ahh
[01:57:14] <DeadYak> bear in mind ata doesn't do ATAPI yet though
[01:57:18] <DeadYak> so no CD-Drives
[01:57:22] <DeadYak> also doesn't do DMA yet
[01:57:25] <DHowett> DeadYak: does the build factory use an unmodified set of jamfiles?
[01:57:35] <DeadYak> I want to say yes.
[01:57:41] <DeadYak> that would be a question for Sikosis though
[01:57:48] <DHowett> koki_haiku: I think I might just be made of magic, in that case. :P
[01:57:53] <koki_haiku> hehe
[01:57:58] <koki_haiku> we'll see
[01:58:08] <koki_haiku> going to reboot into zeta to install a new build
[01:58:09] <koki_haiku> bbl
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[01:59:15] <DeadYak> Kokito: I'm going to assume you finished downloading then?
[01:59:26] <Kokito> yes DeadYak. thanks!
[01:59:42] <DeadYak> k, removing that image then
[02:00:03] <Kokito> can you keep it for a few more mins?
[02:00:11] <DeadYak> oh
[02:00:14] <Kokito> until I safely copy it to my zeta partition
[02:00:27] <Kokito> just in case :)
[02:00:27] <DeadYak> oops :) re-upping it
[02:00:36] <Kokito> never mind
[02:00:39] <Kokito> it's ok
[02:00:43] <DeadYak> k
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[02:14:02] <duaneb> hold your breath, folks
[02:14:09] <duaneb> threads might work this time
[02:14:12] <DHowett> I can't, i'll die!
[02:14:13] <DHowett> :P
[02:14:29] <duaneb> DHowett, it's ok, it's for Haiku
[02:14:34] <DHowett> oh, alright
[02:14:42] <DHowett> Breathing appears unrelated to my lack of sleep in the past 28 hours.
[02:14:52] <DHowett> Being a college student is fun!... *coughs*
[02:15:01] <duaneb> whee, fun
[02:15:08] <duaneb> where should I go to college?
[02:15:32] <DeadYak> DHowett: been there
[02:15:36] <duaneb> I'm looking for a small liberal arts college that's not insanely hard to get into that has a nice computer science program
[02:15:37] <DeadYak> DHowett: my record was 72 hours :/
[02:15:42] <DHowett> wow
[02:15:44] <DeadYak> yay semester projects that were *WAY* behind
[02:15:50] <DHowett> my record over the past few years tops out at 36, unfortunately
[02:15:54] <duaneb> I could always go to Williams, but my dad teaches there...
[02:15:57] <DHowett> this was only because I couldn't sleep last night :P
[02:16:25] <DeadYak> DHowett: this was my sophomore year, I hadn't done that before or since
[02:16:29] <DHowett> duaneb: For a nice small liberal arts college, don't even let the word "RIT" come to mind. Big tech school. NICE computer science program though ;)
[02:16:32] <DHowett> DeadYak: wow
[02:16:49] <duaneb> DHowett, that's where you go?
[02:16:52] <DHowett> duaneb: indeed
[02:16:53] <DeadYak> DHowett: to put it another way, my roommate found me keeled over on my keyboard at the end of the 3rd day of it
[02:17:10] <DeadYak> I didn't even remember passing out
[02:17:22] <DHowett> DeadYak: I've been found sleeping with a book on my head.. but nowhere NEAR your record ;)
[02:17:23] <DHowett> hehe
[02:17:31] <DHowett> duaneb: Not going here next year though. Way too expensive.
[02:17:34] <DeadYak> believe me, I have no desire to repeat that record :)
[02:18:29] <duaneb> gah
[02:18:34] <duaneb> I've managed 36 hours
[02:18:44] <duaneb> I'm in highschool, does this worry anyone?
[02:18:46] <pyCube> i went to college many times.. nearly finished many semesters
[02:18:58] <pyCube> dont think i actually finish a single one though
[02:20:00] <DHowett> duaneb: It's okay. Why would it worry us?
[02:22:39] <duaneb> bye for now
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[02:24:10] <DHowett> o.O
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[02:27:04] <duaneb> told you I'd be back
[02:27:21] <DeadYak> you made it sound a bit longer than that :)
[02:28:14] <DHowett> yeah...
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[02:42:19] <mmadia> does anyone have Andrea B.'s (of OsDrawer.net ) email address?    the ones provided on the website return mail undeliverable.
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[02:44:14] <mmadia> wb
[02:45:29] <DHowett> thanks
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[02:58:49] <[Katisu]> mmadia, tried a itbug address?
[02:59:11] <mmadia> no,  what is it?
[02:59:18] <[Katisu]> one on bebits
[02:59:22] <DHowett> Night #haiku :P
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[03:15:56] * umccullough_work goes into newb mode
[03:16:06] <umccullough_work> hey guys, did all the vm and cache issues get fixed yet?
[03:16:32] <mmadia> bug 2024?
[03:17:08] <umccullough_work> sorry, nick isn't reg'd
[03:17:12] <umccullough_work> hang on, i'll fix that :)
[03:17:17] *** umccullough_work is now known as Luposian
[03:17:28] <mmadia> eg,  KDL at boot and mounting dirty partitions as read only
[03:17:29] <Luposian> woot!
[03:17:37] * mmadia ROTFL
[03:18:02] <Luposian> gotta keep a spare registered nick around :)
[03:19:29] <geist> oh noes, it'sluposian
[03:19:29] <stpere> hehe
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[03:22:19] <stpere> I think we will need some way to manage add-ons at some point
[03:22:24] <DeadYak> the disk corruption issue's fixed yeah
[03:22:48] <Luposian> DeadYak, good to hear
[03:23:12] <Luposian> my disk went into readonly mode after a corruption the other day - the bootscript showed me an Installer :)
[03:23:23] <Luposian> i thought that was cute
[03:23:24] <geist> this is makig my head asplode
[03:23:30] <geist> Luposian: you're not acting crazy enough
[03:23:33] <geist> need more !!
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[03:23:40] <Luposian> geist, sorry to disappoint!
[03:23:46] <geist> YESSS
[03:23:58] <stpere> you need more CAPS!!!
[03:24:07] <Luposian> AUSA!
[03:24:10] <stpere> like THAT see WHAT I MEAN!!!
[03:24:17] <geist> ALL CAPS == MORE EMPHASIS
[03:24:30] <geist> ITS SERIOUS BUSINESS
[03:24:40] <stpere> :)
[03:24:50] <Luposian> The problem IS that SOMEONE has changed the CAPSLOCK so that I MUST hit the SHIFT key first before it WORKS!
[03:24:53] <Luposian> not
[03:25:03] <geist> REAL MEN DONT USE CAPSLOCK
[03:25:09] <geist> THEY HOLD THE DAMN KEY WITH THEIR PINKY
[03:25:13] <geist> BE A MAN
[03:25:19] <Luposian> actually, i have this REALLY BAD HABIT of only using my left PINKY
[03:25:28] <geist> I ONLY USE MY RIGHT
[03:25:33] <Luposian> so, I end up SHIFTING my hands to the LEFT in order to compensate
[03:25:38] <Luposian> :)
[03:25:40] <geist> yeah I do the SAME THING
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[03:25:45] <Luposian> funny :D
[03:25:46] <geist> except OPPOSITE
[03:25:57] <geist> BUT I cant use CAPS LOCK
[03:26:05] <geist> BECAUSE it's assigned TO CONTROL
[03:26:14] <Kokito> oh no! :)
[03:26:15] <geist> WHERE god MEANT CONTROL to be
[03:26:19] <Luposian> lol
[03:26:30] <Kokito> the evil caps lock key
[03:26:33] <stpere> lol
[03:26:33] <Luposian> evil
[03:26:44] <Kokito> the scourge of the computer revolution! :P
[03:26:48] <Luposian> certainly
[03:26:55] <geist> sun had A GOOD idea
[03:27:03] <geist> SUN TYPE 6 == teh w1n
[03:27:16] <Luposian> what connector do those use?
[03:27:21] <Luposian> PS2?
[03:27:24] <geist> they made a USB VERSION
[03:27:25] <geist> !!!11
[03:27:26] <Luposian> neat
[03:27:34] <geist> YESSSSSSsss11
[03:27:37] <clsk> one
[03:27:47] <Luposian> eleventy-eleven!
[03:27:51] <geist> DONT Mock ME!
[03:27:55] <stpere> I don't even know why I'm bothering myself with that filter
[03:28:06] <stpere> it seemed a good idea yesterday :P
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[03:28:11] <geist> i hav a PROBLmen with KEYS AND emphasiS!!!!11!1
[03:28:15] <Luposian> stpere, can you make one that mimics the apple delay?
[03:28:36] <Luposian> stpere, seriously, i think it would make a good 'sample' code for an inputserver add-on :)
[03:28:42] <stpere> I don't even know what you mean :)
[03:28:52] <geist> stpere: whatcha writin?
[03:28:55] <stpere> by apple delay
[03:29:02] <geist> what is apple delay?
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[03:29:19] <Luposian> supposedly apple's capslock requires you to hold down the key slightly longer now
[03:29:20] <stpere> oh, a filter that request you to hold shift key before pressing capslock to enable it
[03:29:32] <stpere> hmm
[03:29:36] <geist> oh wow, that's whatck
[03:29:47] <Luposian> if they did it in the hardware, that's lame
[03:29:59] <Luposian> if they did it with software, i would expect it to be changeable
[03:30:02] <geist> depends on the computer i think
[03:30:17] <Luposian> apparently it's only a delay when setting it on, but not off of course
[03:30:18] <geist> forexample, a lot of earlier ibooks (and the 12" powerbook) the LED for caplock toggles in hw
[03:30:25] <geist> even if you remap the key to something else
[03:30:30] <Luposian> oh bummer :D
[03:30:44] <geist> though it doesn't do capslock in hardware, so you're probably okay
[03:31:00] <Luposian> so, even if you set the capslock on in sw, it won't light the LED?
[03:31:02] <ozy`> geist: yeah my 15" powerbook does that
[03:31:03] <geist> anyway,m as i previously mentioned, caplock is for suckas
[03:31:06] <Luposian> and vice-versa?
[03:31:21] <ozy`> (which is why I never remapped it to control)
[03:31:22] <geist> Luposian: yeah, not sure. might just toggle if sw doesn't tell it anything else
[03:31:35] * Luposian gets immediately creeped out being called Luposian
[03:31:36] <geist> otherwise it seems like it could get out of sync pretty easily
[03:31:55] <geist> Luposian: they all float down here
[03:32:02] *** Luposian is now known as umccullough_work
[03:32:08] <umccullough_work> 'nough of that
[03:33:53] <umccullough_work> stpere, besides - you working on that filter maybe is uncovering input_server bugs :)
[03:35:31] <stpere> yes :)
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[03:55:54] <umccullough_work> hmm... the haiku-development list is more-and-more being used for non-development questions/discussions :(
[03:57:13] <koki_haiku> umccullough_work, we need a moderator with a strong hand :)
[03:57:17] <umccullough_work> yes
[03:57:28] <umccullough_work> well, first we need some guidelines ;)
[03:57:44] <umccullough_work> most OSS projects have public guidelines for their mailing lists
[03:57:45] <koki_haiku> umccullough_work, changing subjects, but son got the ethernet>wifi bridge to work
[03:57:52] <umccullough_work> nice
[03:58:14] <umccullough_work> it probably requires reconfiguration on each wireless network though right?
[03:58:17] <koki_haiku> yes
[03:58:32] <koki_haiku> but I now understand how it's configured
[03:58:36] <umccullough_work> very good :)
[03:58:54] <umccullough_work> i've been using mine a lot lately so I don't have to mess with a wireless card in my laptop
[03:58:58] <koki_haiku> plus I am taking my son with me to SF this weekend, so he can do i himself
[03:59:09] <umccullough_work> it's pretty convenient cuz I can lay in bed and use haiku without a cable :D
[03:59:23] <umccullough_work> oh yeah, that's *this* weekend already! wow
[03:59:57] <umccullough_work> well, without a cable going to my other room anyway...still have a cable to the wrt54g :/
[04:00:06] <umccullough_work> but it sits on the floor next to my bed
[04:00:25] * umccullough_work needs to finish wiring up his bedroom with cat5
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[04:02:24] <koki_haiku> umccullough_work, how do you do the wiring?
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[04:03:13] <umccullough_work> when I renovated I put gray pvc conduit in my walls so I could pull cat5 through them afterward - i have several wall plates in my bedroom that are just waiting for me to string cat5 up through the attic
[04:03:32] <umccullough_work> basically, my house is network-ready - i just haven't networked it all yet ;)
[04:03:36] <koki_haiku> ah, smart move
[04:03:43] <umccullough_work> my wife thinks i was nuts
[04:04:42] <umccullough_work> of course, it's not just network - a couple of them are currently in use for coax from my DTV dish on the roof
[04:04:51] <koki_haiku> wifes always do that:P
[04:05:20] <umccullough_work> and when i'm done with my new 'entertainment room' - i will be running speakerwire through a few of them for the rear surround speakers
[04:05:41] <umccullough_work> it's basically just waiting for me to install a wet bar and flooring :P
[04:05:48] <umccullough_work> the wet bar is holding everything up atm
[04:06:12] <umccullough_work> well, that and the fact that I have no spare time
[04:07:13] <umccullough_work> the sad thing is - we got lazy a few months back and made some calls - we had a guy coming out to measure and tell us what it would cost to install everything
[04:07:26] <umccullough_work> and he flaked on us two weeks in a row...so basically we gave up on that idea
[04:09:03] <koki_haiku> umccullough_work, do you remember my house?
[04:12:36] <umccullough_work> koki_haiku, yeah
[04:12:49] <umccullough_work> although, i think i only saw the lower floor :)
[04:13:21] <koki_haiku> I wonder how much it would cost to get all the outside painted
[04:13:37] <umccullough_work> probably a couple grand
[04:14:34] <umccullough_work> i don't really know - we ended up getting a friend of my wife's to paint ours - and he did it for cheap - we bought the paint directly from kelly moore ourselves
[04:15:47] <koki_haiku> there is a guy who is painting a lot of the houses in the block for 2.5K a pop
[04:16:24] <umccullough_work> sounds about right
[04:17:11] <umccullough_work> is he pro?
[04:18:26] <koki_haiku> yes
[04:18:32] <koki_haiku> and they do a good job
[04:18:44] <koki_haiku> I checked out several houses he did in the last few weeks
[04:19:21] <koki_haiku> so was entertaining the idea of refreshing the face of the house :)
[04:19:35] <umccullough_work> same color? or new look?
[04:19:42] <koki_haiku> slightly different look
[04:19:47] <umccullough_work> ours was yellow with brown trim before we redid it :D
[04:19:52] <umccullough_work> UGLY
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[04:20:09] <koki_haiku> maybe use two colors
[04:20:16] <umccullough_work> yeah
[04:20:29] <koki_haiku> I am close to color blind, so I would probably let my wife choose, as she is quote good with colors
[04:20:34] <umccullough_work> :)
[04:20:45] * umccullough_work suddenly wonders about Koki's artwork
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[04:22:02] <koki_haiku> I really don't have much artistic talent, although sometimes I can do some decent stuff, probably by accident. :)
[04:22:14] <umccullough_work> that's more than I :)
[04:26:04] <Kokito> arrghhh! haiku kdled when I tried to attach a syslog to a bug report
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[04:26:50] <umccullough_work> bummer :P
[04:26:54] <umccullough_work> with firefox i assume
[04:27:03] <Kokito> let's see if restore session works
[04:27:08] <Kokito> yes, FF
[04:27:27] <umccullough_work> restore session wont' work if the session was never written to disk ;) - but maybe you're lucky
[04:27:45] <umccullough_work> by kdl - i assume you mean you had to reboot
[04:28:00] <Kokito> it did work, but Haiku KDLed again when trying to upload the file
[04:28:13] <umccullough_work> you must be talking about gdb
[04:28:20] <Kokito> no, kdl
[04:28:30] <umccullough_work> you're able to continue?
[04:28:38] <Kokito> no
[04:28:41] <umccullough_work> oh
[04:28:47] <umccullough_work> so, reboot, restart FF, attempt again?
[04:29:00] <Kokito> that's what I just did, and it KDLed again :)
[04:29:04] <umccullough_work> ick
[04:29:09] <Kokito> it's the rt8139 driver
[04:29:18] <umccullough_work> oh yeah, that things a POS
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[04:29:35] <umccullough_work> i stopped using my rtl8139 card and swapped it with a 3com
[04:29:37] <umccullough_work> too buggy
[04:29:56] <leavengood> how do you output to the serial log?
[04:30:05] <umccullough_work> leavengood, what do you mean?
[04:30:08] <umccullough_work> vmware?
[04:30:11] <leavengood> I need to debug the input_server
[04:30:16] <umccullough_work> oh, dprintf
[04:30:25] <umccullough_work> automatically goes to syslog/serial output
[04:30:32] <leavengood> thought it was more complicated then that, hehe
[04:30:37] <leavengood> OK
[04:30:38] <umccullough_work> well, that's kernel-mode
[04:30:50] <umccullough_work> i suppose input_server is probably user-land
[04:30:55] <leavengood> input_server is user-land
[04:31:03] <umccullough_work> so, i'm not entirely sure then...
[04:31:10] <umccullough_work> but you could launch it in a terminal
[04:31:13] <Kokito> umccullough_work, cant swap cards; it's a laptop
[04:31:16] <umccullough_work> and just use standard printfs
[04:31:17] <Kokito> or can I?
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[04:31:30] <umccullough_work> Kokito, sounds like maybe a no
[04:31:51] <umccullough_work> leavengood, you can kill/restart the input_server from a terminal and have all the output show there
[04:32:00] <leavengood> the app_server starts the input_server and restarts it
[04:32:13] <umccullough_work> i'm pretty certain there's a way... but I don't know what it is
[04:32:17] <leavengood> I helped ensure that
[04:32:19] <leavengood> hehe
[04:32:22] <leavengood> I'll figure it out
[04:32:24] <umccullough_work> i remember mmu_man or someone saying how
[04:32:32] <leavengood> just wanted to ask here first
[04:32:39] <leavengood> before grepping
[04:32:56] * Kokito wonders if the PCMCIA card would work in Haiku
[04:33:02] <umccullough_work> Kokito, likely not
[04:33:16] <umccullough_work> i have a pcmcia 3com card that doesn't seem to work in haiku
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[04:33:29] <umccullough_work> of course... not sure there's a driver for it anyway :)
[04:33:57] <umccullough_work> Kokito, even better would be usb network adapters - but again - drivers and usb stack support probably lacking :(
[04:34:19] <umccullough_work> i have one even...
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[04:36:25] <Kokito> oh well, will attach the syslog from zeta
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[04:51:29] <umccullough_work> looks like another giant prime was found :)
[04:51:40] <umccullough_work> 13th largest i believe
[04:53:19] <ari-free> YAY
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[04:58:47] <leavengood> umccullough_work: FYI for serial output you can use _sPrintf
[04:59:06] <leavengood> or SERIAL_PRINT from Debug.h if you define DEBUG
[05:01:32] <umccullough_work> ok :)
[05:02:02] <umccullough_work> good to know anyway
[05:02:17] <umccullough_work> i'm tired - need to go home and eat soon
[05:02:59] <leavengood> IRC makes you stay late...I left work at 7:40something EDT tonight
[05:03:06] <leavengood> hehe
[05:03:17] <leavengood> (and was on IRC here too)
[05:03:28] <leavengood> go home! ;)
[05:05:18] <ari-free> ryan...I was thinking about it. gecko is for legacy and not what Haiku should be about
[05:05:19] <DeadYak> lol
[05:05:48] <ari-free> the 3 main reasons for it are: 1) compatibility with crappy web sites
[05:06:19] <ari-free> 2) web apps
[05:07:00] <ari-free> 3) extensions
[05:07:27] <umccullough_work> leavengood, I'm also working :)
[05:07:34] <ari-free> nie=nice
[05:07:49] <leavengood> umccullough_work: sure sure sure
[05:07:52] <umccullough_work> :/
[05:08:05] <leavengood> ari-free: yeah no doubt, hence why I ported WebKit
[05:08:08] <leavengood> ;)
[05:08:20] <umccullough_work> how's that going anyway?
[05:08:22] <ari-free> the only real advantage is mathml i think :)
[05:08:25] <leavengood> (well there is still a lot to do)
[05:08:39] <leavengood> umccullough_work: it has been on hold for some time now, but I'm eager to get back to it
[05:09:21] <umccullough_work> i'm hoping Ingo finds the time to port a gcc4 toolchain to haiku ;)
[05:09:46] <ari-free> the mozilla people are saying that firefox 3 has better dynamic memory use
[05:10:00] <umccullough_work> well, they aren't just saying it...
[05:10:10] <leavengood> umccullough_work: grrr, I thought that was already working
[05:10:21] <umccullough_work> leavengood, no, only gcc2 has been ported to haiku
[05:10:29] <DeadYak> he said he'd move on to gcc4 once he's done with a few more tools
[05:10:34] <ozy`> ari-free: firefox 3 is much less aggressive about pre-caching (and about holding onto cache data)
[05:10:35] <DeadYak> by the sounds of it he's in the middle of porting OpenSSH
[05:10:53] <ozy`> ari-free: that alone amounts to better memory usage
[05:11:06] <leavengood> DeadYak: well that is fine by me, the browser will need it for SSL
[05:11:07] <umccullough_work> not to mention the new jemalloc, the cycle collector...
[05:11:21] <umccullough_work> and the compressed image caching
[05:11:40] <umccullough_work> openssl ...is he porting that also?
[05:11:47] <DeadYak> leavengood: no it won't
[05:11:51] <DeadYak> leavengood: OpenSSL is done already
[05:11:59] <ari-free> they have a new animated gif format
[05:12:05] <leavengood> oh cool
[05:12:21] <umccullough_work> openssh is needed for non-anon subversion checkouts
[05:12:22] <DeadYak> that's a totally separate lib from OpenSSH
[05:12:33] <umccullough_work> and checkins :)
[05:12:34] <DeadYak> and by the sounds of it, Ingo's porting it by fixing every posix issue he finds
[05:12:41] <leavengood> yeah the difference of one letter got me
[05:12:42] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, that's awesome :)
[05:12:43] <DeadYak> so we'll have a real working version
[05:12:49] <DeadYak> including sshd by the looks of it
[05:12:53] <leavengood> cool
[05:13:02] <umccullough_work> fixing posix issues during a port is the best policy
[05:13:05] <ozy`> hardcore
[05:13:08] <leavengood> yup
[05:13:08] <DeadYak> but OpenSSH uses a *lot* of stuff
[05:13:10] <DeadYak> so that one takes time
[05:13:20] <DeadYak> you saw how he completely rewrote pipefs the other day right?
[05:13:25] <umccullough_work> i missed that
[05:13:30] <DeadYak> oh
[05:13:31] <DeadYak> well he did
[05:13:34] <umccullough_work> crazy
[05:13:36] <DeadYak> reworked it in terms of true FIFOs
[05:13:43] <DeadYak> so now we support both regular and POSIX named pipes
[05:13:48] <DeadYak> which I believe was for something in ossh
[05:14:08] <leavengood> I need to learn how those guys work so fast
[05:14:11] <DeadYak> and yes, the best way I can put it is Ingo and Axel are machines
[05:14:15] <leavengood> I hope it comes with practice
[05:14:35] <umccullough_work> starting to reach RobertSz levels ;)
[05:14:45] <DeadYak> that guy's scary too :)
[05:14:46] <umccullough_work> rewrite entire chunks of the OS as needed
[05:14:59] <leavengood> it doesn't help my day job has no C++ (not that I'm *really* complaining about that though)
[05:15:02] <DeadYak> RobertSz's in the middle of rewriting his entire kernel iirc
[05:15:04] <ari-free> thats why people pay him
[05:15:13] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, yeah - but I heard he's been at it for a while - like a year
[05:15:18] <DeadYak> yep
[05:15:24] <geist> i think it's the focus that comes with youth
[05:15:25] <DeadYak> that's why SkyOS updates have been kinda minimal in recent months
[05:15:32] <geist> i used to be like that, but i can't stay that focused anymore
[05:15:35] <umccullough_work> heh
[05:15:40] <umccullough_work> geist, you're old? ;)
[05:15:43] <DeadYak> geist: RobertSz's married and has a kid though, I'm amazed he can still manage
[05:15:50] <geist> DeadYak: being full time on it helps
[05:15:55] <umccullough_work> does he have a day job?
[05:15:58] <DeadYak> he works on SkyOS full time?
[05:16:02] <geist> i think he does
[05:16:03] <DeadYak> afaik it's a hobby project
[05:16:17] <geist> yeah, but he's been selling pieces of it
[05:16:23] <geist> or something
[05:16:27] <geist> I thought he was doing ti full time
[05:16:28] <umccullough_work> besides the beta fees?
[05:16:40] <DeadYak> wasn't aware of anything other than the beta fees but I'll admit I haven't looked too closely :)
[05:16:49] <DeadYak> brb, gonna go unbreak my ubuntu box
[05:16:50] <umccullough_work> i wouldn't be surprised if he's hacking stuff together for commercial companies that pay him
[05:17:05] <ari-free> I just don't see how 1 person can maintain an entire OS by himself
[05:17:10] <geist> yeah. having been someone that did at least some os stuff, i see how you can do it
[05:17:12] <umccullough_work> ari-free, i think he does have help...
[05:17:16] <geist> it just requires that you stay on it for years and years
[05:17:27] <geist> i lost my focus after a few years, and working
[05:17:37] <geist> perhaps if my day job wasn't doing essentially the same thing...
[05:17:42] <umccullough_work> heh
[05:17:54] <leavengood> I don't know, for me at least, crap just comes up
[05:18:04] <leavengood> either other interests, or the usual "real-life" stuff
[05:18:07] <geist> yeah, and i sort of refuse to let it completely dominate my life
[05:18:16] <geist> i try to squeeze in other RL stuff
[05:18:18] <ari-free> umc all the bug fixing and testing
[05:18:26] <geist> though a lot of times that just means fucking around. playing video games, irc, etc
[05:18:35] <leavengood> geist: indeed :)
[05:18:41] <geist> but I still think there's a value to doing that. recharges your batteries
[05:18:42] <umccullough_work> youtube!
[05:18:48] <leavengood> geist: no doubt
[05:18:59] <geist> i think the capacity of the batteries goes down over time
[05:19:06] <umccullough_work> like old nicads?
[05:19:07] <geist> so requires more recharging as you get older
[05:19:18] <geist> yeah
[05:19:23] <leavengood> I am starting to think the same thing
[05:19:26] <umccullough_work> and sometimes they leak
[05:19:43] <umccullough_work> and get all crusty
[05:19:48] <leavengood> My thing is I'm Mr Momentum
[05:20:09] <geist> yeah, so for the most part the last few years work consumes most of my code energy per day
[05:20:14] <leavengood> I don't want to go to bed at night...don't want to get up in the morning...if I start cleaning the house I keep going until I'm happy with it...etc.
[05:20:22] <geist> yeah
[05:20:32] <geist> i have a real tough time regulating my sleep
[05:20:58] <geist> always have, but it's worse because Palm doesn't seem to care at all
[05:21:02] <leavengood> hehe
[05:21:09] <leavengood> rolling in at 10AM and stuff, eh?
[05:21:20] <geist> as long as it's done no one cares if you're actually at work or when you do it
[05:21:21] <leavengood> (them staying til 7 or 8, grrr)
[05:21:26] <geist> leavengood: 10AM? that's early for me
[05:21:31] <leavengood> hehe
[05:21:40] <geist> if i can get up at 10 that's a good day for me
[05:21:45] <umccullough_work> yeah, i used to roll in around noon and stay till 1am
[05:21:47] <geist> most of the time it's more like 1 or 2 pm
[05:21:48] <umccullough_work> years ago
[05:21:49] <leavengood> for some reason my work started cracking down on that, though it makes no sense for developers
[05:21:56] <geist> and last 2 or 3 weeks i dont bother going to work
[05:21:59] <geist> it's too distracting
[05:22:06] <geist> i'll pop in for a meeting, and then just go home
[05:22:08] <leavengood> hehe
[05:22:19] <geist> i live 3 minutes from work right now, so it's not so bad
[05:22:37] <leavengood> as long as your stuff get's done, it shouldn't matter
[05:22:41] <geist> but planning on moving back to SF, which means a 45 minute commute, so i'll have to figure out something better
[05:22:52] <geist> leavengood: yeah, but it doesn't help me regulate sleep and whatnot
[05:23:14] <geist> i get off into this haze where days go by of just sitting around the house hacking, sleeping, wathcing tv, playing games, hacking, etc
[05:23:15] <leavengood> geist: I took off work for 7 months and had an insane sleep schedule
[05:23:18] <geist> kind of gets old
[05:23:21] <leavengood> during that time
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[05:23:33] <leavengood> yeah that was me sometimes too
[05:23:36] <umccullough_work> 7 months?
[05:23:39] <umccullough_work> damn
[05:23:48] <leavengood> yeah I want to do it again, but for a year
[05:23:56] <leavengood> maybe with some side projects for money
[05:24:03] <geist> yeah, i should do the same. i think i've decided that big companies are teh suck
[05:24:05] <leavengood> I'm good at saving and keep my expenses low
[05:24:14] <leavengood> working sucks
[05:24:17] <geist> shoulda stayed at $gameco
[05:24:31] <leavengood> small companies are teh suck too
[05:24:36] <umccullough_work> mm...
[05:24:37] <geist> I was in over my head, totally excellent learning experience
[05:24:48] <geist> yeah, $gameco had the same usual crappy small company issues
[05:25:04] <geist> ie, they never backed up the p4 server, so when it went down i had to stay at work for 2 days rebuilding it from scratch, etc
[05:25:11] <umccullough_work> ugh
[05:25:14] <leavengood> geist: know that feeling
[05:25:29] <geist> but large companies are slow, or driven by politics
[05:25:44] <geist> nupalm is changing a lot, but it's still too slow by my tastes
[05:25:54] <leavengood> I was the only IT/network/PC repair/developer/server admin/backup guy/phone repairman/etc at my work for like a month a few weeks ago
[05:26:07] <geist> you're fine as long as you dont depend on anyone else, and then you have to drop into sublight speeds to let them keep up
[05:26:16] <leavengood> hehe
[05:26:25] <ari-free> small companies make mistakes and then they die. big companies still make mistakes but they can afford to
[05:26:43] <geist> basically I'm one of those intense energy/output kind of people that you can harness once every couple of weeks or so
[05:26:51] <leavengood> me too I think
[05:26:55] <geist> but it involves making sure everything is in place
[05:27:09] <geist> no distractions, no interruptions, no reliance on anyone else, etc
[05:27:10] <leavengood> I can do soemthing in a day that takes someone else a week, but only if everything aligns right
[05:27:17] <leavengood> and then I need to do nothing for a week after
[05:27:23] <umccullough_work> heh, know that feeling ;)
[05:27:46] <leavengood> yes we are all uber-hackers
[05:27:47] <umccullough_work> week of heavy work, week of web surfing, rinse, repeat
[05:27:48] <leavengood> hehe
[05:27:57] <geist> that was why i got so much done back in the heydey of newos. I had the energy, and i was permanently in that state for a few months
[05:28:03] <geist> just bashing out large chunks of code all day
[05:28:10] <leavengood> *whistle, whistle* I never surf the web at work! :P
[05:28:19] <umccullough_work> and i never chat on IRC at work
[05:28:23] <leavengood> LOL
[05:28:28] <ari-free> that sounds like a role playing game. i need to make up a team of elves, dwarves and leavengoods
[05:28:36] <umccullough_work> lol
[05:28:43] <ari-free> cuz you never know when you need a leavengood :)
[05:28:50] <leavengood> geist: I think what is critical for me is having a definitely goal
[05:28:51] <leavengood> LOL
[05:28:59] <leavengood> or a geist for goodness sake ;)
[05:29:14] <ari-free> yeah a poltergeist since this is a fantasy
[05:29:15] <geist> last few months i've not been able to get into The State that often though
[05:29:28] <geist> too much distractions, so i'm distancing myself from work more and more
[05:29:29] <leavengood> Sweet sweet Flow
[05:29:42] <geist> and then i'm unhappy with myself when i do show up and get frusterated with everyone else
[05:29:52] <leavengood> Flow, The Zone, The State, Nirvana
[05:29:53] <geist> last few years i've been more like this
[05:30:05] <leavengood> geist: we must be brothers
[05:30:08] <leavengood> that is me too
[05:30:10] <umccullough_work> angry-geist?
[05:30:34] <umccullough_work> i only rip people's heads off when i'm cornered into an unreasonable schedule
[05:30:41] <umccullough_work> which is most of the time these days
[05:30:43] <geist> yeah, same
[05:30:48] <leavengood> I want to quit and take my year off...but I could learn some more stuff at work and possibly make a few million if things go right (maybe)
[05:30:57] <leavengood> but then I'd actually have to do all this annoying work
[05:30:58] <geist> went to a meeting today and acted like an ass, and hated myself all the time
[05:30:59] <ari-free> rip heads off...you must be an orc
[05:31:44] <leavengood> my schedule is totally open, but it isn't much better
[05:31:49] <leavengood> it is like it is too damn lax
[05:31:58] <leavengood> and there is no damn plan
[05:32:04] <geist> yeah
[05:32:29] <leavengood> it is like "gimme something to shoot for and a date to do it by"
[05:32:39] <leavengood> but not "finish the app within the year"
[05:33:08] <leavengood> anyhow, good to see being a developer is pretty much the same everywhere
[05:33:11] <umccullough_work> funny, we actually try to estimate how long something will take to complete - and usually the deadline is already set by then
[05:33:14] <leavengood> we can commiserate on that
[05:33:28] <leavengood> umccullough_work: that definitely sucks and is stupid
[05:33:33] <leavengood> thank god I don't have that
[05:34:00] <umccullough_work> in fact, usually the customer requirements haven't even been documented :)
[05:34:06] <leavengood> today my CEO was talking to me (they are deathly afraid of me leaving) and trying me to become a real "stakeholder" and asked what I would want
[05:34:26] <umccullough_work> heh...
[05:34:34] <leavengood> but they can't give it to me (which would be "let me work on what I want, like Haiku and WebKit, etc.)
[05:34:53] <leavengood> that is so far from the companies business it is nuts
[05:34:57] <leavengood> so whatever
[05:35:08] <geist> yeah, full time haiku would be interesting
[05:35:22] <leavengood> at least it is Ruby, which is the "other" open source thing I'm into besides Haiku
[05:35:35] <geist> but getting someone to pay would be pretty much impossible
[05:35:39] <leavengood> geist: but I'm almost scared that would make me hate it
[05:35:50] <leavengood> just something about making something a job
[05:35:52] <geist> oh yeah, getting paid for something is a great way to make it no fun
[05:35:59] <leavengood> haha
[05:36:00] <ari-free> google can pay...
[05:36:06] <leavengood> it depends on how it was done I guess
[05:36:21] <ari-free> how do you think mozilla makes money
[05:36:24] <umccullough_work> it ultimately depends on what said company's interest is
[05:36:28] <leavengood> OK, if I could work on whatever I wanted related to Haiku and get paid for it, that would be cool
[05:36:30] <geist> also trouble is i've worked myself up into a pay scale that i dont know if lesser equipped organizations could afford
[05:36:39] <geist> on the other hand, do I need this moeny? not really
[05:37:01] <leavengood> geist: yeah I'm not even paid that well and could still live on much less money
[05:37:15] <leavengood> at some point having a bunch of crap stops being fun
[05:37:34] <leavengood> I guess at the point when you can more of less buy whatever you want within reason
[05:37:43] <leavengood> you stop wanting it so much
[05:38:11] <geist> yes! that's precisely the phase that i'm at right now
[05:38:12] * leavengood is trying to reject the consumer culture in America
[05:38:18] <geist> about 3 weeks ago i decided that i dont need shit
[05:38:23] <geist> been slowly throwing stuff out
[05:38:24] <umccullough_work> at which point, you invest the money and forget about it :)
[05:38:29] <geist> one box a day
[05:38:40] <leavengood> yeah I too am trying to declutter
[05:38:51] <geist> i found that slow and steady is easier to deal with
[05:38:54] <leavengood> so much crap, much of which I barely remember where it came from
[05:38:57] <ari-free> I noticed a long time ago people who ar into haiku are very low maintenance
[05:38:59] <geist> one small bankers box a day
[05:39:11] <ari-free> the apple people are extreme opposite
[05:39:14] <geist> that way you can spend 20 minutes a day, and it doesn't have to be a big production
[05:39:14] <leavengood> hehe
[05:39:29] <leavengood> geist: yeah I am trying to take it slow too
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[05:39:38] <geist> but you have to make a rule to do it once a day
[05:39:45] <geist> or you'll slack and then you wont be ay better off
[05:39:56] <geist> and you have to follow it
[05:40:10] <geist> i allow myself to cache it up. 2 boxes today means i dont have to do it tomorrow
[05:40:19] <leavengood> hehe, interesting
[05:40:29] <geist> and if the ultimate goal is to recycle, putting the box in the car is fine too, as long as i take it to the place on saturday
[05:40:37] <geist> but i can never remove it from the car once it's there
[05:40:42] <umccullough_work> lol
[05:40:45] <geist> those are my ground rules. working pretty well thus far
[05:40:52] <leavengood> out of curiosity, what kind of stuff are you getting rid of?
[05:40:55] <umccullough_work> when do you know you can stop?
[05:41:09] <leavengood> I am a packrat and have a hard time letting go, though I'm slowly beating it
[05:41:10] <geist> umccullough_work: when i can't possibly toss any more. i'll know when it's time
[05:41:38] <geist> leavengood: well, i went through a lot of boxes of old papers. college notes, old pay stubs, etc. those were the first to go
[05:41:51] <geist> then some little toys and misc crap. little squeezy things, etc
[05:41:58] <umccullough_work> yeah, those are junk...
[05:42:02] <geist> recently i tossed out all my jewel cases for all cds
[05:42:12] <leavengood> yeah paper is a big one for me
[05:42:13] <geist> even my audio cds. i have them all ripped, cds are in a cd folder
[05:42:17] <geist> dont need the jewel cases
[05:42:28] <leavengood> yeah stupid jewel cases and DVD cases
[05:42:32] <leavengood> waste of space
[05:42:35] <geist> recently i got rid of two boxes of vhs cases, and the vcr
[05:42:40] <geist> never gonna watch em again
[05:42:47] <leavengood> indeed
[05:42:49] <umccullough_work> now, that's a problem i have
[05:42:57] <umccullough_work> my kids have TONS of VHS movies
[05:43:12] <geist> got a box of little elctronics i got rid of. phones, answering machine, fax machine, old printer
[05:43:22] <geist> this wekened i took out an entire box of computer stuff
[05:43:31] <leavengood> umccullough_work: The MPAA would appreciate it if you bought all those again please.
[05:43:40] <umccullough_work> leavengood, no doubt
[05:43:43] <geist> 2 monitors, 1 server, 2 sun boxes, pile of keyboards, 2 or 3 PCs
[05:43:58] <ari-free> in germany there are actual stores that give away stuff for free. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give-away_shop
[05:43:59] <umccullough_work> leavengood, the sad thing is - the VHS tapes are a lot easier for the kids to use :/
[05:44:00] <leavengood> umccullough_work: close your eyes!
[05:44:06] <geist> got more coming. imac, hard drives, etc
[05:44:19] <geist> i haven't gotten into clothes yet, that'll be quite a few boxes worth by volume
[05:44:22] <umccullough_work> leavengood, geist already told me what he was dumping ;)
[05:44:34] <leavengood> yeah God knows I need to get rid of some clothes
[05:44:51] <leavengood> I swear I have at least several hundred shirts
[05:44:57] <geist> could trim some stuff out of the kitchen. got a coffee machine and blender i dont use. extra set of pots n pans
[05:45:05] <geist> old plastic cups that are raunchy
[05:45:09] <umccullough_work> lol
[05:45:10] <geist> will get to that some day
[05:45:15] <leavengood> geist: there is a nice methodology for that from Alton Brown
[05:45:17] <ari-free> raunchy cups?
[05:45:29] <leavengood> for clearing the kitchen
[05:45:43] <geist> leavengood: yeah, the single use thing?
[05:46:02] <leavengood> basically you re-arrange things and only put something away after using it
[05:46:11] <leavengood> geist: he also likes multi-purpose things too
[05:46:26] <ari-free> he also likes 20 kinds of salt
[05:46:27] <leavengood> so you can see what you really use
[05:46:30] <leavengood> LOL
[05:46:41] <geist> anyway, so i think i got about another 2 weeks of boxes before it starts getting hard
[05:46:46] <leavengood> though at least for me I have a pretty good idea what I use
[05:46:55] <leavengood> that's cool
[05:47:03] <leavengood> I may try to be more aggressive myself
[05:47:04] <geist> my other strategy i've found for tossing stuff is to set a box so that i can't see into it. empty
[05:47:14] <geist> as i go through stuff i toss it in the box and never ever look again
[05:47:18] <geist> put a lid and toss it
[05:47:23] <leavengood> hehe
[05:47:25] <geist> right then. can't go back throguh it
[05:47:33] <geist> each item gets 5 seconds for me to look at it
[05:47:34] <leavengood> and you probably never miss the stuff
[05:47:48] <geist> I have to justify keeping it, which is harder than 'will i ever need this again'
[05:47:49] <umccullough_work> it only hurts for a while ;)
[05:48:10] <geist> yeah, items in the box start off with a heavy penalty if i haven't opened the box in a year
[05:48:22] <geist> obviously i lived without them, so they have tor eally justify themselves to keep
[05:48:26] <leavengood> indeed
[05:48:44] <geist> for example, yesterday I opened a box i hadn't looked at in year that was completely full of game manuals
[05:48:54] <leavengood> I was asking myself the other day "why the hell do you keep something sitting in boxes? are you ever going to use it?"
[05:48:57] <geist> somewhere along the line i had neatly packed manuals to games from 20 years ago
[05:49:04] <leavengood> LOL
[05:49:06] <leavengood> ebay!
[05:49:11] <geist> dumpster
[05:49:13] <ari-free> ahhh remembered when games needed manuals
[05:49:25] <leavengood> I found some Mask toys complete with boxes and manuals
[05:49:30] <leavengood> may actually ebay those
[05:49:33] <geist> i only saved 2 of them: civilization and starflight
[05:50:57] <leavengood> hey check this out
[05:51:08] <leavengood> I have this one, complete with box (opened like this one)
[05:51:12] <leavengood> http://cgi.ebay.com/M-A-S-K-razorback-complete_W0QQitemZ270225833802QQihZ017QQcategoryZ16468QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:51:20] <leavengood> $45!
[05:51:20] <leavengood> hehe
[05:51:31] <geist> somewhere years ago i had a little black jeep
[05:51:33] <geist> some mask thing
[05:51:42] <ari-free> actually i have played the best game ever. it's called who has the biggest brain? and ironically is on facebook
[05:51:50] <leavengood> heh
[05:52:27] <ari-free> my brother is addicted to it. he can play that game for hours
[05:52:54] <leavengood> I saw this interesting Google Tech Talk about these games used to categorize images that people love to play
[05:53:03] <leavengood> very interesting, and very useful
[05:53:06] <leavengood> let me find the link
[05:53:20] <geist> okay, enough irc
[05:53:21] <DeadYak> yay, it boots again
[05:53:30] <geist> tiem to go hack and put together another box or two
[05:53:35] <leavengood> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8246463980976635143
[05:53:41] <DeadYak> another? didn't you just get rid of a bunch? :)
[05:53:44] <leavengood> aight later geist
[05:53:53] <ozy`> geist: donate those old machines to skynet
[05:54:50] <geist> DeadYak: not today
[05:54:55] <geist> that was yesterday
[05:54:59] <geist> today i have to do another box
[05:55:03] <DeadYak> oh
[05:56:04] * leavengood looks around at the clutter around his desk and starts to feel guilty.....
[05:57:07] <DeadYak> leavengood: you don't want to see my computer room
[05:58:32] <leavengood> LOL
[05:58:52] <leavengood> I have not one, but TWO "messy rooms" in the house
[05:59:09] <leavengood> of course I also have a office I'm fixing up that is almost empty, so it isn't that bad I guess
[06:00:55] <pyCube> i've never had a 'computer room'
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[06:01:42] <pyCube> not sure if i like the idea
[06:01:57] <leavengood> pyCube: computer in the bedroom? Bad Feng Shui! ;)
[06:02:12] <pyCube> ehh.. huh?
[06:02:42] <pyCube> wtf is feng shui?
[06:03:06] <leavengood> hehe
[06:03:33] <leavengood> chinese art of arranging rooms to maximize chi flow and positive human experience
[06:03:37] <leavengood> or something like that
[06:03:38] <pyCube> what/whoever feng shui is, i like my computer in the bedroom
[06:03:59] <pyCube> ah.. in other words, bullshit
[06:04:18] <pyCube> bullshit that asians can sell to 'cultured' white folk
[06:04:42] <leavengood> practically having something sort of "work related" in the bedroom can distract from it being a restful environment
[06:04:54] <leavengood> even a TV
[06:04:59] <leavengood> but to each their own
[06:05:12] <pyCube> serious.. thats pretty goddamned hairbrained
[06:05:25] <pyCube> ya know.. you can ignore things
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[06:05:53] <pyCube> or better.. not take it so f'ing seriously
[06:06:27] <leavengood> that is exactly the point, not having the bedroom so serious
[06:06:30] <pyCube> i cant figure out why people jump through hoops to add MORE rules to their lves
[06:06:50] <pyCube> why would you take a computer or tv serious to begin with?
[06:06:50] <leavengood> having a simple bedroom with no distractions isn't really adding rules
[06:07:07] <pyCube> sure it is.. if you get all bent out of shape should a computer wind up in it
[06:07:15] <leavengood> well I also don't have cable and don't really watch TV habitually like most Americans
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[06:07:28] <pyCube> me neither.. but thats beside the point
[06:07:48] <leavengood> I'm not really bent out of shape about it actually
[06:07:55] <leavengood> though you seem to be mighty agitated about it
[06:07:58] <leavengood> ironically
[06:08:00] <pyCube> hehe
[06:08:25] <pyCube> nah..
[06:08:36] <leavengood> I mean I don't think a TV or computer would bother me that much in the bedroom
[06:08:54] <leavengood> I have the space (no kids) to have a dedicated office
[06:09:05] <leavengood> so I can keep things separate
[06:09:30] <pyCube> i guess i just dont think about things like that
[06:09:35] <leavengood> actually a computer would probably clutter up my small bedrooms
[06:10:05] <leavengood> that is probably a good thing
[06:10:11] <pyCube> hell, i dont even have a specific spot for eating
[06:10:24] <leavengood> we share that trait
[06:10:52] <leavengood> though I generally prepare my food in the kitchen
[06:10:57] <pyCube> hehe
[06:10:58] <leavengood> (LOL)
[06:11:29] <pyCube> i do have a spot for shedding ones waste
[06:11:45] <pyCube> ...my kids even use it
[06:11:52] <leavengood> now on the topic of this channel, I have no freaking idea what this stupid input_server is doing with these filters
[06:11:57] <leavengood> pyCube: LOL
[06:12:33] <leavengood> debug output is totally useless
[06:12:44] <leavengood> oh well, guess this bug will have to be fixed later
[06:12:49] * pyCube gets agitatedly anxious waiting for pyqt4 based on qt4.4
[06:13:00] <leavengood> heh
[06:13:01] <pyCube> ...i am getting sick of all this c++ fiddling
[06:14:35] <leavengood> I dream of a day where nice Haiku apps can be written in scripting languages
[06:14:54] <leavengood> just requires some work, totally possible
[06:15:06] <leavengood> but only in Ruby!
[06:15:07] <leavengood> hehe
[06:15:20] <pyCube> i learned with beos + python + bethon
[06:15:25] <pyCube> tears ago
[06:15:28] <pyCube> um..years
[06:15:37] <leavengood> tears ago
[06:15:37] <pyCube> and tears, i suppose
[06:15:38] <Kokito> leavengood, staying up late? :)
[06:15:42] <leavengood> I'm stealing that
[06:16:01] <leavengood> Kokito: yeah IRC and Haiku-hacking does not equal going to bed on time
[06:16:33] <Kokito> how was the mentor meeting leavengood ?
[06:17:36] <leavengood> pretty good
[06:17:59] <leavengood> we seem to have a good assignment of mentors to students/projects without too much hassle
[06:18:15] <leavengood> I will probably mentor a student for ZeroConf
[06:18:25] <leavengood> aka Bonjour aka easy networking
[06:18:38] <Kokito> nice. macthing mentors-students can be kind of tricky
[06:18:45] <leavengood> though I know jack about Haiku's network code, hehe
[06:18:54] <leavengood> but I will learn, and I know something about ZeroConf
[06:19:07] <leavengood> yeah it can definitely be tricky
[06:19:23] <Kokito> but you are more familiar with the haiku code, so it should be easy to learn, right?
[06:19:35] <leavengood> for people like Axel, Ingo or Michael it isn't too bad since they touch a lot of areas
[06:19:42] <leavengood> yeah I can learn faster than most I expect
[06:19:50] <leavengood> certainly more than the students
[06:20:07] <leavengood> so hopefully I can help...plus we plan to have a mentor pool
[06:20:19] <leavengood> so we will help each other's students if needed
[06:20:27] <Kokito> that's a good idea
[06:21:32] <Kokito> ok, dinner time here. bbl
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[06:30:02] <leavengood> I have to admit I really like the Haiku bootscreen
[06:30:12] <leavengood> I always like the Ubuntu one, but this is better ;)
[06:31:12] <aroman> leavengood: I applied for Zeroconf :)
[06:35:06] <leavengood> yeah you may be my student, but it isn't all decided yet, we had some other ZeroConf applications
[06:35:06] <aroman> it's cool how it's high resolution :)
[06:35:09] <leavengood> but yours looks good
[06:35:25] <leavengood> yeah it is
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[06:36:14] <leavengood> aroman: have you got a Haiku build environment set up already?
[06:39:14] <aroman> but.. it's so pretty that I wish Haiku was slower to boot :P
[06:39:21] <leavengood> haha
[06:39:23] <leavengood> indeed
[06:39:44] <leavengood> you get to enjoy the Ubuntu one for a nice long time
[06:39:48] <leavengood> hehe
[06:41:48] <aroman> well... I hope I will be chosen :)
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[06:43:43] <leavengood> it helps you being here :)
[06:43:43] <aroman> leavengood: yep
[06:43:50] <leavengood> good
[06:44:23] <leavengood> being part of the community is important on any open source project
[06:44:37] <zlominus> aroman: I also applied for zerconf, but few other ideas too :)
[06:45:03] <leavengood> zlominus: I want a job, that you? ;)
[06:45:22] <zlominus> yep
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[06:46:20] <leavengood> hehe
[06:46:20] <aroman> I was actually looking at font sensitizing the About System app
[06:46:48] <leavengood> OK
[06:47:01] <leavengood> that may just be a matter of using the layout system
[06:47:15] <leavengood> which I will be writing an article about Any Day Now (TM)
[06:47:32] <zlominus> yes
[06:47:33] <umccullough_work> later
[06:47:39] <leavengood> later Urias
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[06:47:41] <aroman> just as a small project to get me started with building apps and stuff
[06:47:47] <leavengood> yeah that would be good
[06:47:57] <ari-free> like a bit more than hello world
[06:48:03] <zlominus> another way of fixing it is calculating the width & height and resize then :)
[06:48:49] * zlominus didn;t know haiku/beos has support for layouts
[06:50:37] <leavengood> yeah a lot of people don't
[06:51:06] <leavengood> Ingo(bonefish) added it a while ago and I started writing an article but could not finish it for various reasons
[06:51:13] <leavengood> it borrows ideas from Qt and Java
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[06:51:17] <ari-free> not beos
[06:51:17] <aroman> haven't used ubuntu in a bit... but from what I remember it was low resolution :P
[06:51:27] <leavengood> yeah just Haiku
[06:51:47] <zlominus> a lot preflets and other things are not font sensitive
[06:52:57] <zlominus> it is nice to hear
[06:52:57] <aroman> haha :)
[06:53:30] <leavengood> yeah many need to be tweaked
[06:53:47] <leavengood> I expect lots of patches after my article is out ;)
[06:53:58] <leavengood> though I may do some of the work now when working on the article
[06:53:58] <aroman> zlominus: nice :)
[06:54:20] <zlominus> it is good if it is patches and not rewrites :)
[06:54:33] <leavengood> it is just the GUI building code
[06:54:44] <leavengood> in some cases just 30-50 lines need to be changed
[06:54:56] <leavengood> the layout-based code looks a lot cleaner too
[06:56:08] <zlominus> hmm are there any known bugs with ResizeTo/ResizeBy Haiku implementations?
[06:56:52] <leavengood> I am not sure
[06:58:18] <aroman> leavengood: yeah, I heard there is a new layout system around... I think from DeadYak
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[06:58:58] <leavengood> the sad thing it isn't that new
[06:59:14] <leavengood> but with no docs no one uses it
[06:59:34] <leavengood> so hopefully I can help that
[06:59:39] <zlominus> leavengood: You are the one that ported WebKit ?
[06:59:39] <aroman> I mean, DeadYak told me about it
[07:00:02] <leavengood> zlominus: yeah, that is still a work in progress though
[07:00:24] <zlominus> yes, but I could use an advice from you ...
[07:00:35] <leavengood> OK
[07:01:34] <aroman> zlominus: beos doesn't, haiku does :)
[07:01:49] <zlominus> should I use jam as a build system for software I'm porting or just use the native one (cmake)
[07:02:32] <leavengood> it depends
[07:02:35] <zlominus> cmake does not bootstraps out of the box but I think the thing is pretty trivial
[07:03:02] <zlominus> upon the size of the project ?
[07:03:12] <leavengood> for me it seemed easier to just write Jamfiles for WebKit than to get their build tools working in the Haiku cross compile environment
[07:03:26] <leavengood> plus it meant the build could integrate with the Haiku build
[07:03:47] <leavengood> what are you porting?
[07:04:03] <zlominus> openSync
[07:04:46] <leavengood> would you expect that to become part of Haiku, or something to add on?
[07:04:46] <aroman> leavengood: so, there's no documentation yet for the layout classes is there?
[07:04:58] <leavengood> aroman: not really
[07:05:06] <leavengood> just Ingo's test app and the code
[07:05:21] <leavengood> though QLayout in Qt has some similar ideas
[07:06:02] <leavengood> zlominus: does OpenSync need GCC4 to compile?
[07:06:03] <zlominus> leavengood: I think it should become part of it, but that is not up to me to decide
[07:06:14] <zlominus> leavengood: I think not ...
[07:06:14] <aroman> I'm looking now at the SplitLayout classes
[07:07:25] <leavengood> zlominus: true enough, even "extras" from we long term developers (like my WebKit port) have no guarantee of getting "built-into" Haiku (though distros are a whole different thing)
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[07:07:28] <zlominus> 2.95 should do I think .. but we will see ...
[07:07:33] <leavengood> OK
[07:07:40] <leavengood> are you developing on Haiku?
[07:07:58] <zlominus> yes
[07:08:16] <zlominus> but I can use cross compiler too
[07:08:17] <aroman>  leavengood: where is Ingo's test app?
[07:09:22] <leavengood> aroman: /haiku/trunk/src/tests/kits/interface/layout
[07:09:32] <leavengood> LayoutTest1.cpp
[07:10:08] <leavengood> you can see some of the cool functional-style builders in there
[07:10:08] <aroman> thanks
[07:10:33] * JonathanThompson laughs with insanity into the channel
[07:10:36] <leavengood> zlominus: I think if you can get cmake going on Haiku, that is a good place to start
[07:11:26] <zlominus> leavengood: doing it right now ... There is a binary on bebits, but I prefer to make it form souce
[07:11:36] <leavengood> though it *might* be easier to write the Jamfiles and integrate it into the Haiku build...you just need to look at it and decide
[07:11:52] <zlominus> ok
[07:11:55] <zlominus> thanks for the help
[07:12:31] <leavengood> WebKit is huge but I still felt it was better to use a Jamfile...I ended up writing a Ruby script to help me write the Jamfile ;)
[07:12:47] <leavengood> once I had the basics, the rest was just source files
[07:13:00] <zlominus> :) I'm more of a Python type :)
[07:15:10] <leavengood> zlominus: your questions here have moved you up the list on GSoC too
[07:15:24] <leavengood> I will always reward people who get involved early
[07:15:27] <zlominus> :)
[07:15:32] <zlominus> thanks
[07:16:16] <zlominus> leavengood: What time is it in your country (where you live) ?
[07:16:28] <zlominus> It is pretty early morning here ...
[07:16:31] <leavengood> is the synchronization the project you most want to work on
[07:16:45] <leavengood> it is 1:16 AM, I am staying up too late ;)
[07:17:48] <zlominus> leavengood: Yes ... I think it is good ide/project
[07:17:56] <zlominus> Testing is pretty interesting too
[07:18:06] <leavengood> zlominus: cool
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[07:19:48] <aroman> leavengood: you in North America?
[07:21:14] <leavengood> yeah, South Florida
[07:21:26] <leavengood> one of the proud and few American Haiku developers
[07:21:46] <leavengood> though I want to move to Europe at some point, at least for a few years ;)
[07:22:59] <ari-free> but you'll miss the palm trees
[07:23:15] <ari-free> and dolphins. not too many dolphins in sweden
[07:24:00] <leavengood> heh, I'm thinking more like the south of Spain, so at least I have the Med
[07:24:17] <ari-free> ah now that's the way to go
[07:24:24] <leavengood> though I never go to the beach here, so...
[07:24:29] <ari-free> andalus!
[07:24:33] <leavengood> (probably because it is so close)
[07:24:33] <aroman> well, at least if I get selected we'll be in the same timezone :)
[07:24:48] <leavengood> aroman: you in eastern too?
[07:24:55] <leavengood> EDT
[07:30:05] <aroman> leavengood: yeah, Ontario Canada :)
[07:33:35] <leavengood> cool
[07:33:44] <leavengood> that is useful
[07:34:11] <leavengood> aroman: we need to come up with some neat ways to use ZeroConf in Haiku, to both test and show off the implementation
[07:34:29] <leavengood> if everything goes as expected ;)
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[07:42:36] <Begasus> morning peeps
[07:43:20] <ari-free> one thing Be inc really knew how to do well was demo the OS
[07:43:38] <JonathanThompson> "The Art of the Demo" comes to mind.
[07:44:05] <JonathanThompson> Demoes are great and all, but far more valuable is outside the bounds of a well-scripted demo.
[07:44:08] <ari-free> special skills are required in case the OS doesn't exactly work as planned...
[07:44:43] <ari-free> like magicians hhee
[07:45:02] <ari-free> hehe
[07:45:52] <ari-free> haiku's videos not so great. "cool apps": clock, calculator...
[07:46:27] <JonathanThompson> Consider how much more man-power and time BeOS had before those demoes.
[07:46:57] <ari-free> but it takes skill
[07:47:25] <ari-free> you don't know what will happen when demoing a not quite ready OS in public
[07:47:53] <JonathanThompson> If you've done good QA work, there's little of interest you don't know beforehand.
[07:48:02] <leavengood> Haiku definitely needs some fancier things to demo
[07:48:07] <JonathanThompson> If you've not done sufficient QA work, it's a much larger crapshoot.
[07:48:31] <ari-free> sometimes it's things beyond your control, like hardware
[07:48:41] <JonathanThompson> I'm quite convinced the biggest reason Be put scripting suites into the C++ kits was purely for QA purposes.
[07:48:56] <ozy`> leavengood: http://www.pawfal.org/fluxus/ <== copy that, or integrate it into the OS somehow
[07:48:57] <JonathanThompson> That's why you don't work with hardware you don't know for sure about ;)
[07:49:06] <JonathanThompson> (Don't do a Bill Gates Windows 98 demo)
[07:49:17] <ari-free> hehe exactly
[07:49:32] <ari-free> you have to know how to save face
[07:49:44] <JonathanThompson> I imagine someone got a rather stinging tongue-lashing for that one ;)
[07:50:13] <ari-free> think on your feet
[07:50:32] <ari-free> Be Inc did that very well
[07:51:57] <ari-free> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1659841654840942756
[07:52:12] <leavengood> alright folks I'm heading to bed
[07:52:20] <leavengood> have a nice night/day/etc
[07:52:23] * JonathanThompson staples leavengood into bed from a long distance
[07:52:27] <leavengood> LOL
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[07:53:00] <ari-free> and we also don't have a quirky ceo in charge
[07:53:14] <JonathanThompson> Axel isn't quirky???
[07:53:21] <JonathanThompson> He's basement-bound!
[07:53:27] <ari-free> not JLG quirky
[07:53:30] <JonathanThompson> Granted, perhaps he's not the only administrator figure...
[07:53:47] <JonathanThompson> Ok, perhaps you're right, but who knows, perhaps something makes his nipples hard, too ;)
[07:54:04] <ari-free> JLG would say something that made absolutely no sense and everyone loved the guy
[07:56:34] * JonathanThompson wonders if he can work that same sort of magic
[07:56:43] <JonathanThompson> Tuna fish suspenders for everyone!
[07:56:58] <ari-free> oh screw you
[07:56:59] <ari-free> :P
[07:57:08] <JonathanThompson> I'll pass, you're not my type :P
[07:57:26] <ari-free> ok try again but with a french accent
[07:57:45] <JonathanThompson> Le tuna fish suspenders, she's for everyone, ci?
[07:58:07] <JonathanThompson> (I mean we)
[07:58:18] <ari-free> brilliant! here's $1 million
[07:58:25] <JonathanThompson> (Ok, watched too much of Pink Panther cartoons as a kid)
[07:58:54] <JonathanThompson> That'd get my startup off the ground, that's for sure ;)
[07:59:29] <JonathanThompson> I'm not certain it'd get a company working solely on a project as large and complex as Haiku being developed entirely internally going, though.
[07:59:56] <JonathanThompson> At least, not for long enough to have much chance of making it profitable before running out of funding.
[08:01:03] <ari-free> well we don't want haikiaIA
[08:01:37] <ari-free> kitchen internet appliances
[08:02:00] <JonathanThompson> Why go for kitchen internet appliances when bathroom internet appliances are where the money's at?
[08:02:19] <JonathanThompson> Hey, let's design, build and sell the craptop!
[08:02:37] <pyCube> nuh uh
[08:02:42] <JonathanThompson> (Perfect for viewing pron in the most easily cleaned location)
[08:03:18] <JonathanThompson> I'm sure you can guess the design factors for ruggedness ;)
[08:03:35] <ari-free> hmmm but it would also replace Reader's Digest for those who have to be in there for some time...
[08:04:00] <JonathanThompson> See?  Perfect existing market!
[08:04:19] <JonathanThompson> As opposed to on the refrigerator: how many people are going to stand up and read off their fridge for any period of time?
[08:04:23] * pyCube updates xcode, etc
[08:04:49] <ari-free> well you know how coders are always hungry and running off for snacks
[08:05:09] <JonathanThompson> But how many get stuck for long periods of time peering at the outside of the refrigerator?
[08:05:26] <ari-free> better idea
[08:05:41] <ari-free> it would replace all those magnets with digital equivalent
[08:06:04] <JonathanThompson> Have you seen/used text message coupon codes yet?
[08:06:24] <ari-free> no
[08:06:53] <ari-free> but we want a multimedia coupon experience
[08:06:56] <JonathanThompson> Borders is using them, and they're not the only ones: they send a text message to your phone, and you just show your message to the cashier: beats the crap out of the refrigerator thing.
[08:07:13] <JonathanThompson> (At least for those with cell phones)
[08:07:29] <ari-free> we use freshdirect occasionally
[08:07:49] <JonathanThompson> And even better than the convenience of already having it with you is if you don't use it, you don't have to concern yourself with throwing it away, and you never need to print it out, either.
[08:08:01] <ari-free> order food online and they deliver. it's great
[08:08:20] <JonathanThompson> The ultimate in laziness automation ;)
[08:08:38] <ari-free> yeah who needs to drive 4 blocks to the store
[08:08:43] <JonathanThompson> All you need now is to have them have a key to your house/apartment so they don't even need to have you get up from your couch ;)
[08:09:10] <ari-free> man i wish doors had a remote control
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[08:09:21] <JonathanThompson> Actually, I live close enough to the local grocery store (one of them) it's not even that distance for me to walk, and that's with 1/16th mile blocks.
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[08:09:33] <JonathanThompson> They do exist, if you look for them.
[08:09:46] <ari-free> it's not about the walking. if you have a lot of bags to carry it's not so easy
[08:10:25] <JonathanThompson> If you live close, you can readily walk to/from a couple times a week and keep it down below 4 bags, making it easy.
[08:10:26] * umccullough sees Kokito is still awake
[08:10:33] <ari-free> also the quality of the fruit is #1
[08:10:41] <JonathanThompson> There's also the option of using a backpack for the bigger, heavier trips.
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[08:10:59] <ari-free> a backpack? we're talking a whole trunk of bags
[08:11:02] <JonathanThompson> And for sanity, it's wisest to use the tougher recycleable bags.
[08:11:12] <pyCube> JonathanThompson: heres something fun for your iPhone.. http://moocowmusic.com/
[08:11:19] <JonathanThompson> That's why you go several smaller trips through the week :)
[08:11:29] <ari-free> but that takes more time
[08:11:31] <Begasus> nvidia driver is acting up :/
[08:11:58] <ari-free> and my father likes to buy more than we need or want
[08:12:24] <JonathanThompson> pyCube, I was online earlier tonight, and I heard a female voice announce, "Congratulations, you've just been awarded a free Apple iPhone!" but I couldn't figure out the source, because I was downloading the latest SDK update, I was browsing another Apple-related site, and I had >40 windows open....
[08:12:27] <JonathanThompson> Oh well.
[08:12:28] <ari-free> we have 2 refridgerators
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[08:12:59] <JonathanThompson> Just have him carry the stuff home himself, and he'll soon change his patterns ;)
[08:13:33] <ari-free> he pays someone to help carry
[08:13:57] <ari-free> there's always some poor guy at the store
[08:14:18] * JonathanThompson listens to iPhone "Stairway to Heaven:"
[08:14:33] <Begasus> nice song! ;)
[08:15:48] <ari-free> hmm i was thinking Highway to heaven
[08:16:02] <JonathanThompson> That's the Michael Landon series :)
[08:16:04] <Kokito> umccullough, yes, still up
[08:16:15] <pyCube> hehe
[08:17:10] * JonathanThompson wonders how long before there's an entire iPhone Symphony Orchestra doing public performances
[08:17:51] <pyCube> iKazoo
[08:18:00] <JonathanThompson> That'd be an easy one to do ;)
[08:18:44] <pyCube> iYaiYai
[08:20:32] <umccullough> iPuPu
[08:21:08] <JonathanThompson> I think one of the big things Apple did for flexibility isn't so much that it's a touch screen, but that it's a multitouch screen, in a small device.
[08:21:17] <pyCube> iDratherBeFishing
[08:21:22] <JonathanThompson> That'll get them things that a single touch touchscreen just won't allow.
[08:21:35] <ari-free> i still want a keyboard
[08:21:46] <JonathanThompson> Life is imperfect, agreed, ari-free.
[08:21:46] <ari-free> and a database
[08:21:52] <JonathanThompson> It has one.
[08:21:57] <JonathanThompson> SQLite.
[08:22:17] <JonathanThompson> Just it isn't very well utilized by default iPhone apps currently.
[08:22:18] <ari-free> so it's like a palm?
[08:22:44] <JonathanThompson> From looking at the SDK and what I'm aware of with the Palm, far more powerful for the OS and what comes with it.
[08:22:47] <ari-free> I think everyone should have a database in their pocket
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[08:23:06] <JonathanThompson> Though there might be some limitations as to what Apple allows you to do in the name of keeping it always working as a phone and keeping it secure.
[08:23:30] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps those restrictions will be loosened over time, I don't know.
[08:23:31] <umccullough> everyone should have the intertubes in their pockets too
[08:23:47] <JonathanThompson> Well, the iPhone probably does that as well as anything that size can do it.
[08:23:48] <ari-free> palm's os...just never grew up
[08:23:51] <JonathanThompson> (Currently)
[08:24:03] <ari-free> and it was doubly painful because it was supposed to be Be's last stand
[08:24:23] <JonathanThompson> Well, honestly, the iPhone is a full-blown standards-compliant Unix in your pocket.
[08:24:56] <ari-free> we already have like 5 million linux pdas
[08:24:59] <JonathanThompson> It just happens to have a GUI that works well for the device form factor and such.
[08:25:12] <ari-free> i wanted be on palm
[08:25:19] <JonathanThompson> Oh well.
[08:25:29] <JonathanThompson> Doesn't seem probable at this point.
[08:25:50] <ari-free> but what are they doing
[08:25:56] <JonathanThompson> Palm?
[08:26:00] <ari-free> still same os as before
[08:26:07] <pyCube_> if the Zaurus would have been a phone.. oh man
[08:26:10] <JonathanThompson> I think they're migrating to Linux.
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[08:26:16] <umccullough> hm? Paul ditched Palm OS IIRC
[08:26:19] <umccullough> Palm
[08:26:25] <umccullough> I dunno who Paul is :)
[08:26:41] <JonathanThompson> A figment of our imagination: we were thinking so loudly, you typed his name ;)
[08:26:44] <Bega_Haiku> whoot ;)
[08:26:51] <Bega_Haiku> live from Haiku ;)
[08:26:59] <umccullough> not sure what whoot is :)
[08:27:01] <ari-free> cool
[08:27:08] <Bega_Haiku> ;)
[08:27:11] <pyCube_> Pope John Paul George Ringo III
[08:27:14] <JonathanThompson> A joyful noise, umccullough :)
[08:28:04] <umccullough> I was thinking maybe it was the whole wheat version of woot
[08:28:16] <JonathanThompson> Taste great, more fiber?
[08:28:33] <umccullough> looks like whoot was probably the predecessor though :)
[08:28:50] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps it's the whooty mammoth to the modern elephant of woot :)
[08:29:05] <Bega_Haiku> wanted to type something else first but whoot came out ;)
[08:29:18] <JonathanThompson> Likely story, Bega_Haiku :P
[08:29:32] <umccullough> Bega_Haiku, you should go by Haigasus
[08:29:48] <ari-free> Haikusaurus
[08:29:57] <JonathanThompson> Your current nick makes it sound more like a homeless OS user ;)
[08:29:59] <Bega_Haiku> hey ... I'm not that old!!
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[08:30:30] <JonathanThompson> If you're older than I am, you're ancient by definition, Bega_Haiku :D
[08:30:42] <zlominus> anyone knows what zeta returns on 'uname -a' ?
[08:30:47] <Bega_Haiku> deppends on how old you are feeling I think :P
[08:30:50] <JonathanThompson> Such endeavors as an OSS OS is for young peeps ;)
[08:30:55] <Bega_Haiku> not atm zlominus
[08:31:02] <ari-free> What happens in Begas stays in Begas
[08:31:20] <zlominus> Bega_Haiku: ok ... np
[08:31:21] <JonathanThompson> Well, I have enough health problems I can feel rather old at times, even if I can run half-marathons ;)
[08:32:19] <umccullough> damn, haiku-files.org is still sucking I think
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[08:35:15] <JonathanThompson> Hey umccullough, you read Bryan's blog?
[08:35:48] <umccullough> not recently
[08:36:08] <JonathanThompson> I think you'll be mildly shocked at his latest accomplishment...
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[08:39:50] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, you mean his getting sick?
[08:39:58] <JonathanThompson> Look closer.
[08:40:04] <JonathanThompson> He doesn't say it in words.
[08:40:33] <umccullough> busted toe?
[08:40:52] <JonathanThompson> It appears a bit more than busted, if I'm not mistaking things.
[08:41:22] <umccullough> hard to see :/
[08:41:38] <JonathanThompson> I think he'll walk a bit lopsided from now on...
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[08:43:22] <aroman_> can anyone see this? It is 11:43 PM PDT. At what time are you people seeing this message?
[08:43:32] <JonathanThompson> That time.
[08:43:35] <aroman_> ok
[08:43:54] <aroman_> sorry, I think I was connected on a weird route before...
[08:43:58] <aroman_> :/
[08:44:02] <umccullough> guys, type 1 when you see this!
[08:44:08] <JonathanThompson> One that goes through the Twilight Zone?
[08:44:17] <aroman_> :P
[08:44:28] <JonathanThompson> I did, but you didn't say anything about pressing the return key ;)
[08:44:41] <umccullough> old memories of chatting :)
[08:44:48] <aroman_> well
[08:44:54] <umccullough> probably on battle.net when i used toplay diablo (1)
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[08:45:36] <umccullough> then the entire channel would fill up with "1" :)
[08:45:49] <aroman_> today at work... something was wrong with the mailing lists and this email ended up being sent to the whole company. Immediately people started replying (to all) saying: please remove me from this list, or please stop clicking reply to all... within 30 minutes my inbox had about 400 messages...
[08:46:07] <JonathanThompson> And no doubt, the email server had a bad day ;)
[08:46:13] <aroman_> then the CIO emailed saying "you morons! stop replying!"
[08:46:25] <JonathanThompson> And then they all replied, "Oops, sorry!"
[08:46:29] <JonathanThompson> Right?
[08:46:35] <aroman_> not quite :P
[08:46:45] <JonathanThompson> Close, though :)
[08:46:55] <aroman_> the funny thing... in the middle of the whole thread, the learning services was offering an Outlook course :P
[08:47:01] <JonathanThompson> LOL
[08:47:11] <aroman_> dunno if it was related... heh
[08:47:24] <aroman_> but it was still pretty funny
[08:47:29] <JonathanThompson> Couldn't find that needle in the "What the hey?" stack of mail ;)
[08:47:51] <umccullough> that would have killed us - our mailserver is on the other end of an IPSEC connection over a slow internet link ;)
[08:48:43] <umccullough> every once in a while, someone will send a 10mb attachment and kill our internet connection for a while as everyone's outlook client syncs up and downloads it
[08:49:28] <aroman_> so I asked this before reconnecting, but I'm not sure if it went through.. here it is though
[08:50:03] <aroman_> how can I change a VMWare image to add an application I build? Or, how can I send a file to a Haiku install?
[08:50:27] <umccullough> are you building your own images?
[08:50:29] <aroman_> I don't want to lose the settings and all that, so I don't want to rebuild the image
[08:50:33] <aroman_> yes
[08:50:34] <umccullough> oh...
[08:50:38] <umccullough> yeah um...
[08:50:47] <umccullough> funny thing - that's kinda hard :)
[08:50:50] <aroman_> heh
[08:50:53] <aroman_> no sshd? :P
[08:50:56] <pyCube_> hmm.. i havent been so excited about a sw release as i am about qt4.4 in...ever.
[08:51:03] <umccullough> you can put the file somewhere and then download it from within haiku using wget
[08:51:06] <aroman_> pyCube_: what's new?
[08:51:12] <aroman_> umccullough: good point :)
[08:51:25] <umccullough> i use my FTP server here on my network for that
[08:52:05] <pyCube_> aroman_: i am excited about the webkit stuff, media (phonon) stuff, and concurrency stuff
[08:52:06] <aroman_> no NFS support yet right?
[08:52:20] <umccullough> actually, NFS should be there - not sure if it's on the image by default
[08:52:22] <aroman_> pyCube_: webkit sounds cool :)
[08:52:37] <aroman_> umccullough: ooh cool...
[08:52:38] <umccullough> i don't use NFS, so i'm not sure
[08:54:03] <pyCube_> http://trolltech.com/products/qt/whatsnew/qt44-preview
[08:54:44] <aroman_> cool, FTP works :)
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[08:57:58] <pyCube_> a port of qt for haiku would very much be worth the effort..imho
[09:00:38] <ari-free> is qt haikuish enough?
[09:01:30] <ari-free> gtk+ definitely not haikuish
[09:01:35] <pyCube_> i learned to code via beapi... moving to qt was very easy. familiar in many ways
[09:01:45] <umccullough> wxWidgets would be worth it also ;)
[09:02:38] <pyCube_> i like wxWidgets, but i think you'd get way more 'bang for the buck' with qt
[09:03:10] <umccullough> probably
[09:03:16] <ari-free> i heard yellowtab people went totrolltech
[09:03:28] <umccullough> but I've seen a couple apps using wxWidgets that I'd like to see ported also
[09:03:38] <umccullough> "yellowtab people"?
[09:03:45] <umccullough> most of the yellowtab people work on Haiku now
[09:03:45] <ari-free> zeta
[09:04:01] <ari-free> they do? oh good
[09:04:14] <umccullough> well, not full time - but in their spare time
[09:04:19] <ari-free> know names?
[09:04:27] <Begasus> some of them were working on Haiku even before ...
[09:04:36] <umccullough> that too
[09:05:06] <Begasus> configure doesn't recognize Haiku as a build type ....
[09:05:17] <umccullough> Begasus, what package?
[09:05:30] <ari-free> imagine gnome based on qt
[09:05:34] <Begasus> SDL umccullough
[09:05:43] <umccullough> as soon as ingo is finished adding gettext, and some other stuff - you should be able to recreate the configure scripts using the auto tools
[09:05:55] <Begasus> trying to see if I can setup a build enviroment atm
[09:06:07] <umccullough> Begasus, add --build=i586-pc-beos or whatever
[09:06:08] <Begasus> ah .. autotools
[09:06:15] <Begasus> they are working in Haiku?
[09:06:35] <umccullough> Begasus, if you build a haiku image - add the optional "Development" package and you'll get most of the goodies
[09:06:38] <Begasus> nah no autoconfig
[09:06:47] <umccullough> autoconf is on mine :)
[09:06:56] <Begasus> didn't include that option ;)
[09:07:17] <Begasus> where can I find some info on that umccullough ?
[09:07:19] <umccullough> you're trying to setup a build env but you dind't create a development version of haiku?
[09:07:25] <umccullough> are you building your images?
[09:07:34] <Begasus> nah grabed one from haikuware
[09:07:38] <umccullough> look in UserBuildConfig.ReadMe
[09:07:46] <umccullough> oh, haikuware...well - then you're at the whim of karl :)
[09:07:48] <Begasus> the regular builds are made here
[09:07:52] <Begasus> ;)
[09:08:13] <Begasus> just took that as a base for the dev enviroment
[09:08:16] <Begasus> checking ...
[09:08:20] <umccullough> but most of the stuff you need is already added using the "Development" optional package at build time
[09:08:31] <umccullough> that's not a base - that's an abomination :D
[09:08:46] * Begasus ducks
[09:08:47] <Begasus> ;)
[09:08:59] <umccullough> if you add Pe and Development - you'll get a nice development image of Haiku
[09:09:20] <ari-free> qt? http://www.freelists.org/archives/haiku-development/03-2008/msg00438.html
[09:09:21] <umccullough> and Ingo set it up so those can be added automatically when the image is created
[09:10:21] <umccullough> Begasus, here's the packages that Ingo has ported native to Haiku: http://haiku-files.org/files/optional-packages/
[09:10:40] <umccullough> but, the installation of them is automated by the build system - just unzipping them isn't enough :P
[09:11:18] <umccullough> in addition, i would recommend adding Pe, Vision, and Links
[09:11:31] <umccullough> the firefox optional package kinda sucks cuz it's not reordered and non-bone
[09:11:44] <Begasus> yeah those are a deff must have
[09:11:47] <umccullough> i install my own at build time instead - usually using the reordered build from mmadia
[09:14:23] <zlominus> umccullough: http://www.haikuware.com/view-details/development/miscellaneous/vmware-developer-edition-image
[09:14:34] <zlominus> u can garb this if you want to play
[09:14:35] <umccullough> zlominus, what?
[09:14:44] <umccullough> zlominus, i think you're misunderstanding
[09:14:52] <umccullough> i build my own images - complete with dev tools
[09:14:53] <zlominus> urr ...
[09:15:03] <umccullough> and install them directly to a native partition :)
[09:15:04] <zlominus> i was wrong ...
[09:15:15] * Begasus isn't so good with the userbuildconfig file yet ;)
[09:15:21] <zlominus> I wanned to tell Begasus about it
[09:15:26] <umccullough> userbuildconfig is easy :)
[09:15:33] <Begasus> zlominus, already pulled that one
[09:16:09] <Begasus> I can rename it and add the options as discribed in the readme umccullough ,
[09:16:12] <Begasus> ?*
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[09:17:27] <umccullough> start with the .sample
[09:17:32] <umccullough> then add whatever you need :)
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[09:20:07] <umccullough_x2> here's a crappy example
[09:20:14] <umccullough_x2> http://nopaste.com/p/avOjqsOe9
[09:20:34] <umccullough_x2> at the bottom I have two different ways of installing firefox - either unzip from a local archive, or install from a zip on the web
[09:20:53] <umccullough_x2> and an example of how to create the symlink also
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[09:23:56] <umccullough> i need to get sleep soon
[09:24:51] <Begasus> thxn for the pointers
[09:24:57] <Begasus> will look at it ;)
[09:25:00] <Begasus> g'night
[09:28:39] <umccullough> 'night
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[09:39:38] <Kokito> good night folks
[09:39:50] <absabs> night kokito
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[10:00:02] <Lelldorin1> moin
[10:04:40] <zlominus> Begasus: any chanse u are in zeta now ?
[10:04:45] <zlominus> *chance
[10:05:40] <Begasus> I can switch easely
[10:05:44] <Begasus> hi slaad !
[10:06:28] <Begasus> any specific thing you need/want to know,
[10:06:38] <zlominus> uname -a
[10:07:19] <Lelldorin1> what kind of command is it?
[10:07:48] <Begasus> BeOS 1.51 6.2 BePC x86 GenuineIntel Zeta
[10:07:57] <Lelldorin1>  BeOS 2007 6.2 20392 BePC x86 AuthenticAMD Zeta
[10:07:57] <Lelldorin1>
[10:08:07] <Begasus> gives you the version of the OS Lelldorin1 ;)
[10:08:13] <Lelldorin1> ok
[10:08:19] <Begasus> 1.5?
[10:08:38] <Begasus> or still 1.21 you are using Lelldorin1 ?
[10:08:43] <Lelldorin1> yes
[10:08:45] <Lelldorin1> so it is
[10:08:52] <Begasus> ;)
[10:09:11] <zlominus> thanks Begasus and Lelldorin1
[10:09:31] <Begasus> np zlominus
[10:09:48] <Begasus> you need it for some specific stuff ?
[10:09:57] <Begasus> eg call in a makefile or so ...
[10:10:23] <zlominus> want to make cmake compile on haiku :)
[10:10:36] <Begasus> ah
[10:10:49] <Begasus> what's the benifit over the gnumake?
[10:10:56] <zlominus> and I'm not sure how does it differs Beos/Haiku form Zeta ...
[10:11:02] <Lelldorin1> nice i think uname is the next bin command for my list of commands in besly :-)
[10:11:04] <Begasus> atleast I think that's the one used mostly atm
[10:11:11] <Begasus> ;)
[10:11:29] <zlominus> it should be crossplatform ... so it's name says :)
[10:11:39] <Begasus> deppending on what it rely's on it doesn't really make a diff
[10:11:45] <Lelldorin1> is uname in haiku and beos too?
[10:11:50] <Begasus> yep Lelldorin1
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[10:11:53] <Lelldorin1> k
[10:12:29] <zlominus> Lelldorin1: uname -s is 'Haiku'
[10:12:36] <zlominus> but uname -o is 'Beos'
[10:12:37] <waveshaper> is mediakit discussed on the mailing list (http://www.freelists.org/archives/openbeosmediakit/) ? seems to be little activity there
[10:12:38] <zlominus> on haiku
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[10:12:49] <Begasus> on R5 and ZETA it's "BeOS"
[10:12:53] <Begasus> 'lo emitrax
[10:12:54] <Lelldorin1> zlominus ok i will check it
[10:13:08] <emitrax> good morning all
[10:13:11] <Lelldorin1> hi
[10:14:50] <Lelldorin1> uh i have allready uname :-)
[10:14:56] <Lelldorin1> in my list of commands
[10:17:38] <Begasus> lol
[10:20:07] <Lelldorin1> ok i add two things -i and -o
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[10:43:51] <Begasus> # Add all available optional packages.
[10:43:51] <Begasus> HAIKU_ADD_ALL_OPTIONAL_PACKAGES = 1 ;
[10:44:03] <Begasus> why is it failing on the second line?
[10:44:22] <Begasus> build/jam/UserBuildConfig: line 41: syntax error at keyword =
[10:44:22] <Begasus> warning: unknown rule 1
[10:44:25] <Begasus> :/
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[11:42:38] <slaad> Begasus :)
[11:43:00] <Begasus> took you long enough ;)
[11:43:01] <Begasus> http://www.flickr.com/photos/begasustro/2399944807/sizes/o/
[11:43:18] <Begasus> got the thing compiled (haiku + the dev enviroment) ;)
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[11:45:17] <slaad> Sorry, was downstaris watching TeeVee.
[11:45:32] <slaad> Yay.
[11:47:08] <Begasus> ;)
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[12:07:37] <CIA-50> axeld * r24869 /haiku/trunk/ (6 files in 5 dirs):
[12:07:37] <CIA-50> * Cleaned up InterfaceDefs.h, added TODO about getting rid of declaring
[12:07:37] <CIA-50>  _init_interface_kit_() in there.
[12:07:37] <CIA-50> * Moved private get_mode_parameter() into the BPrivate namespace.
[12:07:37] <CIA-50> * Renamed interface_misc.h to InterfacePrivate.h.
[12:07:38] <CIA-50> * Minor other cleanup.
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[12:40:35] <Begasus> yesss ... libiconv ... first lib compiled in Haiku ;)
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[12:59:43] <Begasus> config.guess needs an update for Haiku (BePC:Haiku) ...
[13:04:29] <CIA-50> axeld * r24870 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/cache/block_cache.cpp: (log message trimmed)
[13:04:29] <CIA-50> * block_cache_sync[_etc]() now also waits for all notifications to be handled.
[13:04:29] <CIA-50>  This fixes a potential problem where a volume would be left marked dirty on
[13:04:29] <CIA-50>  a clean reboot as reported by Vasilis; no harm would have been done to the
[13:04:29] <CIA-50>  data on the volume, though (it would just replay a log entry that it didn't
[13:04:30] <CIA-50>  need to).
[13:04:32] <CIA-50> * Unified the naming of the notifier/writer thread: renamed the thread to "block
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[13:11:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[13:26:37] <Begasus> out to work
[13:26:38] <Begasus> cya peeps
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[13:27:07] <slaad> Ciao, Begasus.
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[13:49:15] <aljen> http://hitomi.pl/haiku/looknfeel_test1.png what do you think ? experimenting with gui :)
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[13:51:15] <Technix> hehehe
[13:51:20] <Technix> how is everyone?
[13:51:45] <mmu_man> aljen you have too much freetime
[13:51:56] <mmu_man> you'd love Skin-O-Be :p
[13:52:16] <aljen> hehe :P
[13:52:27] <Technix> plop
[13:52:30] <aljen> mmu_man: im sick since 3 days ;P
[13:52:45] <mmu_man> 6 here
[13:53:07] <aljen> now i have time to code for myself at least :)
[13:53:12] <mmu_man> I should dig those screenshots of libbe hack
[13:53:35] <aljen> where which what ? :)
[13:57:50] <mmu_man> long ago I wrote something doing that kind of thing on BeOS, that patched libbe at runtime to hook the Draw() methods of objects and change the look using plugins
[13:58:08] <Technix> sweet. I just got in touch with a VIA rep
[13:58:55] <mmu_man> Technix you'd need to make sure you don't collide with koki, having 2 contacts at once is bad PR, so please report to him
[13:59:24] <Technix> aye, I will let Koki know asap
[13:59:29] <aljen> mmu_man: nice :)
[14:00:38] <mmu_man> actually BGA is the business relation guy, he should be notified too I guess
[14:00:39] <mmu_man> http://www.haiku-os.org/news/2008-02-04/haiku_inc_transition_update
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[14:02:30] <mmu_man> was it regarding http://www.via.com.tw/en/resources/pressroom/pressrelease.jsp?press_release_no=2088 ?
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[14:13:16] <Technix> mmu_man: yes
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[14:14:21] <Technix> I've let koki and bga know whats up
[14:14:37] <Technix> if they want to take it from here, that's ok with me
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[14:29:31] <mmu_man> aljen I'll zip it up and publish that for posterity
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[14:30:23] <aljen> mmu_man: great :))
[14:30:48] <mmu_man> even if we don't need to binary hack libbe you can reuse the plugins
[14:31:56] <aljen> i was talking with Stephan about adding plugin support to controls (sth like qt does, drawing code in shared libs) so that would be great basecode :)
[14:35:11] <mmu_man> it's not really finished but it was looking quite well
[14:35:17] <mmu_man> need to dig screenshots
[14:35:39] <aljen> :)
[14:41:04] <mmu_man> where the * are those
[14:42:16] <mmu_man> hm maybe on Desktop/ on that old disk
[14:43:49] <mmu_man> ahhh skinobe
[14:45:51] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/apps/skinobe/
[14:46:54] <aljen> nice :)
[14:47:09] <aljen> qnx buttons looks good :)
[14:49:11] <mmu_man> yeah played a lot with the gradient
[14:49:24] <mmu_man> I'm adding some doc
[14:49:33] <mmu_man> oh my (c) 2003 that's oooold :)
[14:49:40] <aljen> hehe :)
[14:50:23] <mmu_man> I should take the occasion to upload some of the bebits apps I lost on the old website
[14:50:40] <mmu_man> I updated their address but didn't upload them :p
[14:51:16] <aljen> bebits is still alive ? ;P
[14:51:44] <mmu_man> I think yes
[14:51:48] <aljen> i lost my password & email, sent a few emails to admins to recover my account no response so i thought its death
[14:52:39] <mmu_man> ah, well not sure it's managed but it's still used
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[14:58:54] <slaad> Speaking of theming and what not (vaguely)... does anyone have the data for a horizontal resize cursor?
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[15:02:22] <DeadYak> slaad: I do
[15:04:57] <slaad> Err... in that case... a vertical resize cursor! :P
[15:05:39] <DeadYak> that I don't have :)
[15:05:55] * slaad was already using that one :P
[15:06:06] <DeadYak> though it probably wouldn't be hard to rework that one into a vertical resize cursor
[15:06:19] <DeadYak> with some creative array trickery :)
[15:06:49] <slaad> Well, now you have something to do then, don't you, Mr Yak?
[15:06:52] * slaad grins
[15:07:01] <DeadYak> yes, work :P
[15:07:06] <mmu_man> aw I'm amazed it still works in Zeta
[15:10:58] <slaad> Whoops...
[15:17:34] <mmu_man> ah except it can't be installed on the system as libbe.so doesn't link to libtextencoding anymore
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[15:52:52] <mmu_man> aljen http://revolf.free.fr/beos/apps/skinobe/shot_XCalc_qnx_buttons_and_menu.png :)
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[15:55:02] <mmu_man> aljen sources http://revolf.free.fr/beos/apps/skinobe/libbehack.zip
[15:58:09] <mmu_man> the gem look is funny
[15:58:13] <mmu_man> (Atari ST)
[15:58:33] <PulkoMandy> arf :)
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[16:02:13] <Stargater> hi
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[16:21:08] <CIA-50> axeld * r24871 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
[16:21:08] <CIA-50> * Cleaned up KernelExport.h completely, removed deprecated and non implemented
[16:21:08] <CIA-50>  API, uses the _PRINTFLIKE macro where appropriate.
[16:21:08] <CIA-50> * Got rid of the "qent" structure, struct timer now contains everything we
[16:21:09] <CIA-50>  need. This makes the affected code in sem.cpp, signal.cpp, and timer.c much
[16:21:12] <CIA-50>  cleaner, and resolves a few TODOs.
[16:21:14] <CIA-50> * Minor cleanup in vfs.cpp.
[16:21:47] <CIA-50> axeld * r24872 /haiku/trunk/headers/os/BeBuild.h: Added some macros and an error message if another compiler than GCC is used.
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[16:36:05] <CIA-50> axeld * r24873 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
[16:36:05] <CIA-50> * Added open_module_list_etc() that also allows to specify a required name
[16:36:05] <CIA-50>  suffix. You can use this to verify the version of a module_info structure.
[16:36:05] <CIA-50> * Made module_info::std_ops optional.
[16:36:05] <CIA-50> * Minor cleanup in module.h.
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[16:45:20] <CIA-50> axeld * r24874 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/add-ons/kernel/kernelland_emu.cpp:
[16:45:20] <CIA-50> * Implemented open_module_list_etc() in libkernel_emu.so as well.
[16:45:20] <CIA-50> * Added license.
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[17:14:49] <Technix> anyone speak either French, or German here?
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[17:17:00] <mmu_man> french :p
[17:17:29] <Technix> you want to tell me if the AltaVista translate does a decent enough job of haikunews?
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[17:17:57] <PulkoMandy> :)
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[17:26:56] <Technix> mmu_man ?
[17:27:01] <mmu_man> re
[17:27:06] <mmu_man> url ?
[17:27:08] <Technix> it does ok, right?
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[17:27:19] <Technix> http://haikunews.org, click on the french flag
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[17:42:17] <mmu_man> looks understandable but I'm not sure it's semantically correct
[17:42:47] <Technix> well, that will do then. I cannot control it, but its nice to know it is somewhat understandable
[17:43:16] <Technix> thx mmu_man for checking
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[18:03:31] <Stargater> Technix hi, why do you not cooparate with haikuware ? (haikuware + news) thats good idear ?
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[18:38:34] <stpere> morning
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[19:00:46] <burfi> Hi Technix, German auto-translation is for comedic value only, I have to say
[19:01:07] <leszek> hi
[19:01:35] <ThomHolwerda> bwaha germany lost to sweden in the last end
[19:02:00] <ThomHolwerda> that last stone was truly an EPIC FAIL by the german skip
[19:02:23] <stpere> :)
[19:02:40] <pyCube> lost in what?
[19:02:45] <stpere> duh, curling
[19:02:49] <ThomHolwerda> curling
[19:03:01] <stpere> j/k :)
[19:03:14] <ThomHolwerda> god that game is addictive
[19:03:24] <stpere> I know not everyone is familiar with curling terms and was making fun
[19:03:58] <ThomHolwerda> outside of canada, schotland, switzerland, and a few others, barely anyone really knows curling
[19:03:59] <stpere> ThomHolwerda: what happened, he threw it the toward the wrong end? :)
[19:04:03] <pyCube> ah..its ok to loose at curling
[19:04:53] <ThomHolwerda> stpere: heh no, it was a beginners' error: he played it too 'short'
[19:05:07] <ThomHolwerda> even though he could've bounced against stones further up in the house
[19:05:35] <ThomHolwerda> and, of course, china beat canada
[19:05:41] <ThomHolwerda> which is nothing short of astounding
[19:05:58] <pyCube> astoneding
[19:06:01] <ThomHolwerda> since canada hadn't lost a match yet, and now they loose to a newcomer
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[19:12:54] <burfi> The Dutch and Austrians rather see Germans lose than their own team winning, so they do
[19:13:17] <ThomHolwerda> we suck at curling, we're not even at the tournament
[19:13:17] <burfi> Wonder if there is a medical term for that mental condition
[19:13:30] <ThomHolwerda> it's calle drivalry
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[19:14:51] <burfi> When Austrians are more enthusiastically cheering about Argentina goals then Germans about goals from their teams, that isn't healthy, sorry
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[19:15:56] <ThomHolwerda> burfi: why isn't it?
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[19:17:00] <burfi> Schadenfreude isn't the most likeable element of the human condition
[19:17:20] <ThomHolwerda> why not? it's basis for a lot of great humour
[19:17:38] <DeadYak> why is it necessarily schadenfreude? Why are they not allowed to simply prefer argentina's team out of the two?
[19:18:08] <ThomHolwerda> that, too.
[19:18:16] <burfi> They couldn
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[19:18:33] <burfi> they couldn't care less about Argentina, really
[19:18:43] <DeadYak> how do you know that?
[19:18:52] <Stargater> hi
[19:20:19] <ThomHolwerda> for us dutch it's simply that we dont want germany to win, and as such, we'll be for the other team
[19:20:22] <ThomHolwerda> what's wrong with that?
[19:20:24] <ThomHolwerda> it's just sports
[19:20:31] <burfi> that is fine
[19:20:39] <ThomHolwerda> i have a lot of friends in germany, and they fully understand :)
[19:20:51] <burfi> my point is, you should focus more on your own success
[19:20:58] <ThomHolwerda> it's mostly lighthearted anyway
[19:21:15] <DeadYak> what does their own success have to do with which team they cheer for in a match where neither team represents them?
[19:21:35] <ThomHolwerda> that, too.
[19:21:38] <DeadYak> I still don't see how this is justifiably called schadenfreude
[19:22:12] <burfi> my point really isn't about delight of German defeat as such
[19:22:24] <DeadYak> that's what it started as....
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[19:25:05] <burfi> it is when roar is three times as much as with the people actually having stakes in the game
[19:25:35] <DeadYak> if you say so
[19:25:57] <DeadYak> the only ones that imo have a real "stake" in the game are the players.
[19:26:01] <DeadYak> anyone else is just a fan
[19:26:06] <DeadYak> where they come from is 100% irrelevant
[19:26:31] <burfi> O come on, the game wouldn
[19:26:49] <DeadYak> if you want to follow that logic, I could just as easily accuse you of raising all this noise due to being from Germany
[19:26:52] <DeadYak> similarly invalid argument.
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[19:27:03] <Teknomancer> is this about zeta? :P
[19:27:13] <DeadYak> hi dr_evil
[19:27:32] <dr_evil> hi
[19:27:47] <DeadYak> Teknomancer: nope
[19:27:56] <pyCube> honestly, i never could understand the whole "fan" thing in regards to sports.
[19:28:08] <Teknomancer> DeadYak: ah, ok . hi
[19:28:14] <DeadYak> hi
[19:28:21] <pyCube> i love playing sports.. played various things thorughout my life.. but watching games has never done anything beyond bore the shit out of me
[19:28:28] <DeadYak> pyCube: I'm not the only one?
[19:29:00] <Teknomancer> watching sports doesn't really excite me much either,  i enjoy a few moments of it sure, but cannot watch for more than half an hour
[19:29:05] <Teknomancer> i prefer to play
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[19:30:02] <pyCube> when fans start talking about a team in teh context of "we".. DUMB!
[19:30:28] <Teknomancer> the players get paid no matter what (atleast in some sports that are popular here) and they get paid like crazy
[19:30:33] <Teknomancer> the fans just waste their time
[19:31:02] <burfi> it is just the way we are, accept it!
[19:31:15] <ThomHolwerda> Teknomancer: they are probably going to say that we are wasting our time here on irc
[19:31:19] <ThomHolwerda> it goes both ways
[19:32:24] <burfi> I" can't believe how much I wan't that silly ace from Becker" - Günther Grass
[19:32:51] <Teknomancer> ThomHolwerda:  you're generalizing too much,  i'm talking about fans who act unruly and wage war,  conduct strikes in the streets
[19:33:04] <pyCube> burfi: heh
[19:33:05] <Teknomancer> and personally i don't read everything on IRCs i'm logged in
[19:33:19] <Teknomancer> i just do it when i take a break
[19:33:23] <pyCube> i'll admit, back in the lendl v becker days, i watched tennis
[19:34:02] <Teknomancer> there's a difference between being a "fanatic" and being an onlooker/'watcher'
[19:34:18] <burfi> Point is, group identication is most natural, doesn't stop from intellectuals, literature Nobel price winners
[19:34:42] <pyCube> whatever... its still a retarded distraction.. hehe
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[19:34:53] <pyCube> and ultimately meaningless
[19:35:04] <pyCube> ..its the taking it seriously part that bothers me
[19:35:44] <burfi> As long as you know what is really important in the end
[19:35:58] <Teknomancer> there are fans here burning effigies of opposing teams ;)
[19:36:04] <burfi> no problem getting passionate about a game
[19:36:18] <pyCube> but people dont.. they get genuinely depressed when "their team" loses, etc
[19:36:40] <Teknomancer> there are people who suicide when India lost to Pakistan in an important cricket match :/  crap. (and vice versa in pakistan)
[19:37:27] <pyCube> i just wish peopled get as excited about things like feeding and educating people as they do about sports
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[19:41:14] <Teknomancer> g'nite all
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[19:46:56] <stpere> PyCube : we love Montreal Canadians :)
[19:47:06] <stpere> we are going to go far in playoff this year
[19:47:09] <stpere> we we we :)
[19:47:12] <stpere> ;-)
[19:47:18] <pyCube> viva expos!
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[19:47:35] <stpere> haha, yup
[19:47:39] <stpere> nos amours!
[19:48:40] <CIA-50> axeld * r24875 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/ (15 files in 15 dirs):
[19:48:40] <CIA-50> Made sure load_driver_symbols() is not used anymore when building for Haiku;
[19:48:40] <CIA-50> it's a no-op, and I removed the prototype from KernelExport.h.
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[19:54:27] <Stargater> oh this fixed the build
[19:54:34] <Stargater> i hope
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[20:11:23] <stpere> there is another build error
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[20:13:32] <DeadYak> yeah, trying to figure it out now
[20:14:15] <stpere> line 2770 of /src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/audio/emuxki/emuxki.c
[20:14:25] <stpere> missing int at variable declaration
[20:14:46] <DeadYak> no
[20:14:49] <stpere> oh
[20:14:50] <DeadYak> num_cards is a global
[20:14:53] <stpere> damn
[20:14:56] <DeadYak> checking axel's change...
[20:15:06] <stpere> it did build with that change tho
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[20:15:35] <DeadYak> ah, I know why
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[20:16:48] <El-Al> DeadYak: u there?
[20:16:53] <DeadYak> yeah
[20:16:56] <CIA-50> anevilyak * r24876 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/audio/emuxki/emuxki.c: Build fix :)
[20:17:22] <[Katisu]> um, that broke the build?
[20:17:33] <El-Al> DeadYak: I'm having bother with ./configure. can you help?
[20:17:34] <DeadYak> [Katisu]: C is picky
[20:17:43] <stpere> oh
[20:17:51] <stpere> god, you just swapped the 2 lines?
[20:18:01] <DeadYak> [Katisu]: strict C doesn't let you declare any variables after having done a non-decl op
[20:18:04] <El-Al> DeadYak: getting this error:
[20:18:05] <[Katisu]> would think drivers wouldn't break the whole thing
[20:18:18] <DeadYak> [Katisu]: well, jam -q will stop building at the first compile error
[20:18:39] <[Katisu]> ahh, I don't jam -q
[20:18:44] <DeadYak> El-Al: depends what the problem is..
[20:18:55] <DeadYak> [Katisu]: jam without -q will build everything it can and error out at the end :)
[20:18:57] <El-Al> Permission denied
[20:19:04] <DeadYak> El-Al: is it marked executable?>
[20:19:10] <stpere> DeadYak: I'm putting that thing in my troubleshooting notes :)
[20:19:43] <[Katisu]> DeadYak, I guess I just like living dangerously
[20:19:58] <Thom_Holwerda> 1 out of every 100
[20:20:04] <Thom_Holwerda> adult americans
[20:20:05] <DeadYak> [Katisu]: I usually like to use -q in case I hit an error in something where fixing it would result in a bunch of things having to be recompiled anyhow
[20:20:09] <Thom_Holwerda> is in prison.
[20:20:24] <DeadYak> [Katisu]: in any case, that particular semantic rule only applies to C, C++ will compile that code fine
[20:20:30] <DeadYak> and afaik only C prior to std=c99
[20:20:41] <EuanK> is there space for the rest? :)
[20:20:43] <DeadYak> which gcc 2.9x doesn't know about I don't think
[20:21:20] <El-Al> DeadYak: is there a bash command that will tell me?
[20:21:20] <DeadYak> El-Al: ls -la configure
[20:21:20] <aljen> re =)
[20:21:21] <DeadYak> El-Al: what does it report for permissions?
[20:21:40] <El-Al> DeadYak: Access Read Only :(
[20:21:49] <DeadYak> El-Al: chmod +x
[20:23:31] <El-Al> DeadYak: Thanks, will give it another shot
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[20:42:58] <DeadYak> not seeing that build error here...
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[20:45:37] <stpere> DeadYak: the ctags one?
[20:46:27] <CIA-50> mmu_man * r24877 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/usb/usb.cpp: Fix building usb bus manager with TRACE on.
[20:46:56] <DeadYak> yes.
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[20:47:03] <DeadYak> not seeing that error on linux + gcc2 anyways
[20:48:57] <stpere> I should learn to be more patient before claiming fixing a bug..
[20:49:11] <stpere> it's not because it seems to work it is
[21:06:29] <mmu> anyone want to code joystick support ?
[21:06:42] <mmu> we lack a generic gameport module
[21:06:59] <mmu> there is a usb_joy available around but it wouldn't work without that module
[21:07:07] <EuanK> I have a PS2 - USB adapter. Much better
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[21:08:32] <mmu> joysticks don't use the ps2 port :p
[21:08:33] <stpere> hi MauriceK
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[21:08:44] <stpere> your post about add-ons security interested me :)
[21:08:45] <alexissoft> hi
[21:08:48] <EuanK> Playstation 2 :D
[21:08:50] <stpere> hi alexissoft
[21:10:15] <MauriceK> hey stpere
[21:11:06] <oco> hi
[21:11:34] <oco> does someone know when http://haiku.it.su.se:8180 is updated ?
[21:11:43] <stpere> MauriceK: I'm thinking about a way to use attr to control if an add-on is to be loaded or is disabled
[21:11:55] <stpere> with some prelet to control those attributes
[21:12:08] <stpere> the servers would check the presence of that attr
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[21:12:20] <stpere> if absent, old behaviour
[21:12:26] <oco> for example, this page does not represent current version of the file : http://haiku.it.su.se:8180/source/xref/src/system/libroot/posix/glibc/wcsmbs/mbrtowc.c#36
[21:12:29] <stpere> if present, check if the add-on is enabled
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[21:15:11] <MauriceK> stpere: what do you think you would gain out of it?
[21:15:28] <MauriceK> stpere: btw. are we talking about media addons or addons in general here?
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[21:15:43] <stpere> oh, input_server add-ons
[21:16:05] <stpere> basically, I need a way to include my add-on but not activate it by default
[21:16:23] <stpere> so, I could create my add-on with that attr to be disabled by default
[21:16:34] <stpere> and enable it if the user wants/need it
[21:17:25] <stpere> but it's not really secure I know
[21:17:40] <stpere> nothing would prevent a malware from changing an attr  I guess
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[21:19:14] <MauriceK> that's one point. Secondly you cannot load addons afterwards I guess
[21:20:03] <stpere> yup, it would require a reboot to activate the changes
[21:20:14] <stpere> too windows-ish in my taste
[21:20:21] <stpere> or a server restart
[21:21:03] <ryuo> out of curiousity, when is haiku expected to be at the first objective goal (Beos 5)?
[21:21:04] <MauriceK> hm... what about a settings file?
[21:21:15] <ryuo> or is there any expected year at all...
[21:21:22] <MauriceK> ryuo: I guess nobody wants to give an estimate as that always give wrong expectations
[21:21:49] <MauriceK> stpere: you could simply check on addon instantiation and return an error if it's not supposed to be loaded
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[21:22:03] <stpere> hmm.. that's one way
[21:22:15] <ryuo> just been trying to find something to imitate BeOS's general interface in xorg
[21:22:44] <MauriceK> stpere: that way you could also have a per-user-option in case multiuser gets implemented at one point
[21:22:55] <stpere> ah yes, good point
[21:22:57] <ryuo> can't find anything for the menu thingie on the right side of the screen :-o
[21:23:09] <DeadYak> ryuo: Deskbar?
[21:23:17] <ryuo> the thing that lists your open windows
[21:23:20] <ryuo> yea i think
[21:23:51] <ryuo> i bet haiku would be a lot farther on if beos had been open sourced from the start
[21:24:13] <DeadYak> except that wasn't realistically possible
[21:24:19] <DeadYak> too much licensed code in there
[21:24:24] <ryuo> Oh
[21:24:37] <ryuo> well... technically all code is "licensed" ;)
[21:24:44] <DeadYak> licensed from 3rd parties.
[21:24:47] <ryuo> even under GPL stuff
[21:24:47] <ari-free> also now the haiku developers 'own' the code they have
[21:25:04] <DeadYak> I might also note, things like the kernel would've been more or less completely rewritten anyways
[21:25:09] <ari-free> you don't learn much when everything is spoonfed
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[21:25:28] * MauriceK pets DeadYak btw
[21:25:33] * DeadYak pets MauriceK
[21:25:54] <ryuo> surprised people still releasin software for beos...
[21:26:02] <DeadYak> why not?
[21:26:08] <DeadYak> people still use it
[21:26:13] <ryuo> thought it was dead years ago :-p
[21:26:40] <DeadYak> so? Commodore died how many years ago and the Amiga community's still around?
[21:27:00] <ari-free> but the amiga was very popular
[21:27:02] <ryuo> heck i dont even have a machine with hardware old enough for it to support :-p
[21:27:03] <pyCube> i just looked at a c64 demo made this year
[21:27:07] <pyCube> :-p
[21:27:08] <stpere> heck, Windows died in 2001 ;-)
[21:27:14] <stpere> just dreaming
[21:27:26] <ari-free> games came out on the amiga first and then ported to pc
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[21:28:02] <ryuo> i wonder if theres any xorg equilvant of deskbar
[21:28:08] <ari-free> it was even used a s atoaster :)
[21:28:24] <DeadYak> are you making a joke about Video Toaster?
[21:28:34] <ari-free> ya
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[21:28:46] <ryuo> lolchair is not amused :o
[21:28:51] * JonathanThompson shot the BVT, but he did not shoot the deputy
[21:29:04] <stpere> MauriceK: or I could make a Vista thing, like "Are you sure you want to allow that add-on" popup! ;-)
[21:29:34] <ari-free> Windows Vista: the Billy Mays OS
[21:30:53] <ari-free> "Hi! I'm Billy mays! Am I annoying! Am I annoying? HeadOn! Apply directly where it hurts! HeadOn!"
[21:31:08] <HeTo-> ryuo put kicker (KDE panel) on either side of the screen, move the kicker applets into the right order and turn on automatically expand panel setting
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[21:31:25] <ryuo> i hate kde :-(
[21:31:44] <ryuo> hrm
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[21:32:11] <aljen> ok experimenting with ui part two: http://hitomi.pl/haiku/looknfeel_test2.png what do you think ?
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[21:33:04] <MauriceK> aljen: gradient is too intensive like the colors
[21:33:21] <DeadYak> yeah, that gradient's far too abrupt imo
[21:33:38] <aljen> you mean bad color set ?:)
[21:33:46] <aljen> or style :)
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[21:34:34] <DeadYak> aljen: I don't like how the button suddenly goes from white to gray in one step
[21:35:26] <aljen> DeadYak: there is no gradient code in BView yet ;/ so im drawing 2xrounder rect
[21:35:29] <ari-free> like zebras
[21:35:45] <MauriceK> wow, seems like i need to rebuild whole haiku...
[21:35:57] <MauriceK> is there any progress for compiler support on the gcc4 side?
[21:36:06] * MauriceK is afraid to be the only person being interested in this
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[21:36:25] <aljen> MauriceK: im using only gcc4 build
[21:36:25] <DeadYak> MauriceK: Ingo will get on that after he's done porting all the gcc2-related tools
[21:36:37] <DeadYak> MauriceK: atm he's in the middle of OpenSSH which requires fixing quite a few POSIX issues
[21:36:46] <DeadYak> MauriceK: hence things like the other day's pipefs rewrite
[21:36:58] <MauriceK> ah yeah, saw his OpenSSH stuff... immediately stopped :)
[21:38:08] <DeadYak> so, give him some time :)
[21:38:09] <stpere> am I the only one that have changed the prompt in bash on Haiku?
[21:38:28] <stpere> I like an extra blank after >
[21:38:30] <DeadYak> MauriceK: I'm interested in running the gcc4 build but atm it's too unstable for me :)
[21:38:43] <DeadYak> I prefer PS1='$PWD>' myself
[21:39:14] <aljen> i prefer PS1="\u@\h \w$ "
[21:39:19] <duaneb> I like export PS1="$ "
[21:39:24] <duaneb> nice'n simple
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[21:39:41] <stpere> :)
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[21:40:52] <duaneb> how can I change the PS1?
[21:40:53] <MauriceK> DeadYak: I hope this is related to one single issue, as the Tracker Quit crash is identical to the Cortex one
[21:40:55] <mmu> aljen don't forget to play with Themes :p
[21:40:58] <alexissoft> true men use zsh :p
[21:41:19] <duaneb> meh, zsh has issues
[21:41:20] <mmu> alexissoft I still maintain a zsh port here
[21:41:25] <mmu> (but I don't use it)
[21:41:40] <DeadYak> MauriceK: I don't have a Tracker quit crash here
[21:41:50] <stpere> data/etc/profile
[21:41:52] <aljen> mmu: yeah, remember about that :P
[21:41:54] <duaneb> anyone else getting a million warnings about redefinition of some time related types?
[21:41:57] <DeadYak> MauriceK: and I meant kernel instability, not apps :)
[21:42:09] <alexissoft> mmu: :)
[21:42:10] <mmu> aljen you know it's in 3rdparty/
[21:42:11] <stpere> duaneb: yup, same here
[21:42:12] <DeadYak> MauriceK: I can't run gcc4 haiku for more than about 10 minutes without KDL
[21:42:17] <DeadYak> MauriceK: in a different place every time
[21:42:28] <stpere> duaneb: looks like there is 2 time.h
[21:42:33] <DeadYak> oh and I can't use the radeon driver either
[21:42:55] <MauriceK> DeadYak: well doesn't even boot here, neither gcc2 nor gcc4
[21:43:02] <DeadYak> ah
[21:43:17] <aljen> MauriceK: oops i missed that :)
[21:43:27] <aljen> bleh, mmu: i missed that :)
[21:43:51] <CIA-50> mauricek * r24878 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/media/FileInterface.cpp:
[21:43:51] <CIA-50> Don't reset the duration value after passing it to SetRef as pointed out by Marcus.
[21:43:51] <CIA-50> Sorry for taking so long to commit this...
[21:44:06] <mmu>  [revol@Zeta /Data/zsh/zsh]# Src/zsh
[21:44:07] <mmu>  Zeta# echo $ZSH_NAME
[21:44:08] <mmu>  zsh
[21:44:09] <mmu>  Zeta# echo $ZSH_VERSION
[21:44:09] <mmu>  4.3.5-dev-0
[21:44:20] <MauriceK> lol mm
[21:44:25] <MauriceK> u
[21:44:40] <mmu> aljen use configure --enable-3rdparty then you can jam '<3rdparty>Themes'
[21:44:50] <DeadYak> mmu: please tell me you have /Data backed up somewhere :)
[21:45:01] <aljen> mmu: thanks :)
[21:45:19] <mmu> DeadYak hmm not all of it :p
[21:45:25] * DeadYak gets the trout
[21:45:41] <DeadYak> :)
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[21:46:30] * TuneTracker blinks and looks around
[21:46:32] <mmu> aljen http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/mmu_man/2008-01-25/the_bowels_of_the_theme_manager_or_how_to_make_haiku_as_ugly_as_zeta
[21:46:44] <TuneTracker> mmu Francois?
[21:46:51] <mmu> should be easy to add skin'o'Be support
[21:46:55] <mmu> TuneTracker yes ?
[21:47:07] <TuneTracker> Just seeing if it was you or a clever impersonator.  :-P
[21:47:16] <mmu> hey, just noticed I lost my manhood
[21:47:18] *** mmu is now known as mmu_man
[21:47:27] <stpere> :)
[21:47:33] <aljen> hehe
[21:47:34] <aljen> :)
[21:47:43] <TuneTracker> Yeah, I was wondering if you had an operation or something
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[21:48:52] <duaneb> I hate linux font rendering >.<
[21:49:00] <duaneb> I'm so used to the mac's
[21:49:11] <HaikuwareUser> yeah it's fugly
[21:49:12] <Thom_Holwerda> http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/
[21:49:17] <Thom_Holwerda> that's some fcuked up shit
[21:49:20] <HaikuwareUser> oh that movie is nuts
[21:49:22] <Thom_Holwerda> o.O
[21:49:39] <Thom_Holwerda> watching it right now
[21:49:45] <aljen> mmu_man: do I need to rebuild buildtools & haiku when I used --include-3rdparty ?
[21:49:59] <HaikuwareUser> just think.. millions of those nut jobs in the US
[21:50:37] <HaikuwareUser> basically Fascist
[21:50:42] <mmu_man> aljen no
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[21:51:01] <mmu_man> actually you can just edit generated/build/BuildConfig to add a line
[21:51:50] <aljen> lol jam <3rdparty>Themes without '' runs dd :)
[21:52:21] <mmu_man> HAIKU_INCLUDE_3RDPARTY ?= 1 ;
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[21:52:42] <mmu_man> aljen the shell will try to interpret the < > as redirection
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[21:53:10] <aljen> noticed that hehe :)
[21:53:14] <Kokito> good morning folks
[21:53:31] <stpere> hi koki
[21:53:43] <HaikuwareUser> morning KoKito  are late afternoon here
[21:53:47] <aljen> hey Kokito :)
[21:53:57] <Barrett666> hi everybody
[21:55:48] <Kokito> yeah, it's 1:00PM here too :)
[21:56:05] <stpere> hehe
[21:56:10] <Kokito> have not had lunch yet, ergo good morning
[21:57:04] *** duaneb is now known as mercy_____
[21:57:15] *** mercy_____ is now known as duaneb
[21:58:27] * JonathanThompson pings DeadYak
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[21:59:26] * duaneb feels guilty for listening to foreign music and not knowing what it says
[22:00:06] <stpere> you can feel better knowing it's probably dumb :)
[22:01:02] <duaneb> well it's rammstein :P
[22:01:48] *** EuanK has left #haiku
[22:01:50] <stpere> oh hehe
[22:02:25] *** EuanK has joined #haiku
[22:02:55] <DeadYak> duaneb: that can be hilarious at times :)
[22:04:01] <duaneb> reise reise is a great song
[22:04:08] * duaneb checks that he is spelling it right
[22:04:25] <Thom_Holwerda> rammstein in general is good
[22:04:55] <stpere> let's get moving, get some action!
[22:05:43] * stpere listen to some american song..
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[22:18:19] <burfi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMNhmXE63c8
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[22:19:14] <ari-free> I like lang lang. he makes classical crazy
[22:19:40] <ari-free> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8056484122342309388&q=lang+lang&total=87470&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
[22:21:04] *** ari-free has quit IRC
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[22:21:27] <duaneb> hmm, my source is split into two directories... I'm not sure how to combine the two into one  binary
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[22:21:49] <duaneb> anyone know why?
[22:21:54] <duaneb> rather, how?
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[22:22:25] <stpere> hmm
[22:22:27] <stpere> good question
[22:22:36] <stpere> I'm not really familiar with jam
[22:22:41] <stpere> anyone else? :)
[22:24:41] <dr_evil> burfi thats not funny and that guys performance is very bad
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[22:26:16] <burfi> night-wash is sometimes trash-comedy. I can enjoy that at times.
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[22:26:46] <duaneb> sorry
[22:26:50] <duaneb> anyone say anything?
[22:26:58] <duaneb> There really needs to be a jam tutorial...
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[22:28:58] <CIA-50> mauricek * r24879 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/media/ (MediaRoster.cpp OldBufferStream.cpp OldBufferStream.h): fix some gcc4 related warnings...
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[22:40:16] <stpere> duaneb: nobody said anything helpful :P
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[23:10:19] <AtomoInDivano> http://www.haiku-os.it/node/276 infopopper works on haiku!!!! yeaaaaaa :D
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[23:10:33] <mmu_man> http://www.google.com/codesearch ohhh :)
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[23:17:11] <stpere> hi mmlr
[23:17:52] <EuanK> I'm not him incase you mean me. :)
[23:18:44] <mmlr> hi stpere
[23:18:54] <oco> mmu_man : oh i am a sample data !
[23:19:15] <mmu_man> ?
[23:19:16] <mmu_man> ah lol
[23:19:25] <EuanK> anyone tried adding EHCI to boot menu?
[23:19:36] <oco> http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&q=+Olivier+Coursiere+show:VZkC6Svaq3I:fsS8VPG5hgY:uK7fq3yleMI&sa=N&cd=1&ct=rc&cs_p=ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-4-stable/All/fpc-devel-1.9.2_1.tgz&cs_f=src/fpc-1.9.2/packages/base/sqlite/test.pas#first
[23:19:37] <EuanK> ah mmu_man just the person :)
[23:20:26] <EuanK> mmu_man, to use usb_disk what do we need to add to boot modules?
[23:20:38] <mmu_man> dunno
[23:20:49] <mmu_man> the usb bus mgr, busses at least
[23:20:51] <DeadYak> EuanK: did you mean to direct that at mmlr?
[23:20:58] <EuanK> dunno, did i? :)
[23:21:01] <mmu_man> yeah probably mmlr would know better :p
[23:21:10] <EuanK> mmlr, what do i...
[23:21:11] <DeadYak> EuanK: mmlr = the usb stack guy :)
[23:21:28] <mmlr> you'll need usb_disk, usb (the bus_manager), ehci and uhci
[23:21:31] <EuanK> hehe sorry mmu_man
[23:21:37] <mmu_man> 21 successful test scripts, 5 failures, 6 skipped
[23:21:41] <mmu_man> ah 1 more :)
[23:21:42] <EuanK> ah I need OHCI then
[23:21:50] <EuanK> bah
[23:22:00] <mmlr> not necessarily
[23:22:02] <EuanK> double bah considering AHCI won't work
[23:22:10] <DeadYak> EuanK: your usb disk can't do hi-speed?
[23:22:14] <mmlr> if you have a USB 2.0 flash chip
[23:22:35] <EuanK> well I tried just EHCI, but the system hangs after EHCI bios handover
[23:22:54] <EuanK> I tried both a stick, and USB micro harddrive
[23:23:08] <EuanK> I'll double check they're USB2...
[23:23:16] <mmlr> on what hardware?
[23:23:19] <mmu_man> gcc: unrecognized option `-rdynamic'
[23:23:32] <mmu_man> checking if we can use -rdynamic... yes
[23:23:35] <mmu_man> ohhhkay
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[23:24:30] <EuanK> HP 6715b laptop, with ATI SB600 chipset
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[23:25:38] <EuanK> the usb drive is USB2, as in linux it's connected to EHCI
[23:27:19] <mmlr> EuanK: I have in fact tested that successfully on a hp6710b, but the differences between those revisions are sometimes pretty big
[23:27:39] <EuanK> is that the intel version of the 6700 series?
[23:27:55] <EuanK> mine is all AMD
[23:32:54] <mmlr> EuanK: yeah that's a C2D
[23:33:30] <EuanK> I'll maybe try enabling tracing to see what EHCI is upto
[23:34:08] <mmlr> it might work "better" now, I reduced some ridiculously high retries and timeouts
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[23:36:03] <mmlr> anyway, have to go to bed now
[23:36:06] <EuanK> how do you enable the tracing in EHCI?  is it via jam
[23:36:07] <mmlr> bye everyone
[23:36:12] <EuanK> argh :)
[23:36:17] <EuanK> nite
[23:36:17] <DeadYak> EuanK: there's a header define for it I believe
[23:36:22] <EuanK> usb_p?
[23:36:28] <mmlr> don't do it there
[23:36:39] <mmlr> or you'll get everything <- which is a lot
[23:37:15] <mmlr> in ehci.cpp define TRACE_USB just before including usb_p.h
[23:37:28] <EuanK> ok
[23:37:34] <EuanK> thanks very much.
[23:37:37] <mmlr> in ehci.h I meant of course
[23:37:48] <EuanK> no probs
[23:38:23] <mmlr> but if ehci works and it's only because of the missing ohci you're currently out of luck
[23:38:41] <mmlr> but emitrax will fix that sooner or later ;-)
[23:38:52] <EuanK> well would it need ohci if it's all USB2?
[23:38:57] <DeadYak> shouldn't
[23:39:11] <DeadYak> also in your case if the disk is specifically usb 2.0 then it'll be automatically handed off to the EHCI controller anyways
[23:39:20] <mmlr> it might though if the bios handover doesn't really work out
[23:39:47] <EuanK> hmm
[23:39:55] <mmlr> there are some weird bioses out there (especially those on hp notebooks btw) which happen to keep devices plugged in at boot on the slower bus
[23:39:55] <EuanK> hey ho I can only try
[23:40:09] <EuanK> yeah I fear such things :)
[23:40:14] <DeadYak> mmlr: ah
[23:40:26] <mmlr> so if you enable usb legacy emulation (which you have to do to boot into a usb drive) you can run into that which basically just sucks ;-)
[23:41:03] <mmlr> but maybe some day I'll get a clue as to how to really force those devices to be release from the bios
[23:41:07] <EuanK> so at min we would need OHCI module that can kick all the devices off the bus?
[23:41:27] <mmlr> that might be the case
[23:41:34] <mmlr> you could try just adding it to your image
[23:41:38] <EuanK> I was just reading how to do that in AHCI...
[23:41:47] <EuanK> what OHCI?
[23:41:54] <mmlr> yes
[23:42:02] <EuanK> oks will do
[23:42:09] <mmlr> it might not work, but if it restarts the controller it might just do the trick
[23:42:24] <mmlr> anyways, have to sleep now
[23:42:39] <mmlr> bye and I wish you luck
[23:42:44] <DeadYak> night mmlr :)
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[23:43:08] <EuanK> nite
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[23:49:48] <EuanK> implicit declaration of function `int load_driver_symbols(...)'
[23:49:54] <EuanK> hmm sounds familar
[23:49:59] <mmu_man> again ?
[23:50:10] <mmu_man> it's building here, svn up ?
[23:50:13] <EuanK> in EHCI with tracing enabeled
[23:50:32] <EuanK> svn up 2 date
[23:50:52] <mmu_man> ah I fixed it int he bus mgr but not that one
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[23:53:13] <CIA-50> mmu_man * r24880 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/busses/usb/ (ehci.cpp ohci.cpp uhci.cpp): Fix building usb busses with tracing on.
[23:53:38] <EuanK> faster than a speeding bullet...
[23:54:16] <alexissoft> :)
[23:55:06] <EuanK> mmu_man touched usb last, that means he has to support it :D
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[23:55:41] <EuanK> right off to try usb booting again, then off to bed. nite all
[23:55:46] <mmu_man> lol
[23:56:24] <EuanK> thanks for fixing that mmu
[23:56:27] <EuanK> nite all
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   April 9, 2008  
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