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[00:01:01] <pyCube> my favorite curling moment is when the crazy indians tried to assinate Ringo with a curling stone bomb
[00:01:10] <DeadYak> yeah, he still thinks it's the bios/chip that's buggy but said to go ahead and commit that if it helps
[00:01:12] <pyCube> um.. assissinate
[00:01:30] <EuanK> did you try a reduced time?
[00:01:52] <DeadYak> not yet, just got home from work
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[00:02:35] <EuanK> ah I forgot u guys are running late :)
[00:03:54] <DeadYak> ha
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[00:07:41] <EuanK> how does one add this usb boot thing to the system?
[00:08:02] <DeadYak> that I honestly don't know
[00:08:42] <EuanK> I'll just add it to the boot devices. if that works it would solve my temporary sata issue
[00:09:00] <DeadYak> mmlr mentioned that booting off a USB flash stick is quite slow right now
[00:09:08] <DeadYak> but if you have a usb hdd I guess that'd be less of a problem :)
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[00:09:13] <EuanK> that's no problem
[00:09:38] <EuanK> Oh I forgot I had one of them too... :) 6Gb instead of 1
[00:10:15] <EuanK> I might look into writing a driver for the card reader built in to the laptop.  as it would present less of a protrusion.
[00:10:28] <EuanK> and would be mighty fine for demoing
[00:10:47] <DeadYak> :)
[00:10:53] <DeadYak> about to try a spin value of 250
[00:11:37] <DeadYak> hmm
[00:11:38] <DeadYak> actually
[00:11:44] <DeadYak> spin() is apparently in microseconds
[00:11:59] <DeadYak> that'd explain why I didn't think I actually noticed it
[00:12:13] <DeadYak> never mind then :)
[00:14:32] <EuanK> that's good then.
[00:14:47] <DeadYak> indeed, that implies I was only spinning for 1 msec
[00:14:50] <DeadYak> I think I can live with that
[00:14:52] <DeadYak> :)
[00:15:20] <EuanK> that's my managers favourite phrase.  "must be a timing issue"
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[00:17:41] <EuanK> http://dev.haiku-os.org/changeset/24780
[00:18:11] <DeadYak> yeah, he added it to the image, but I don't think he added it to the boot drivers
[00:18:33] <DeadYak> I'm not completely clear on how that works with the new driver arch
[00:18:48] <EuanK> probably bypasses it :)
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[00:19:43] <EuanK> i got to my last compile error on the atombios code (just bios.c and friends) fixed it and was presented with 300 more.   Went to bed after that.
[00:21:40] <EuanK> added usb_disk to AddBootModuleSymlinksToHaikuImage in HaikuImage.  will see what happens :)
[00:22:00] <clsk> hey DeadYak, mind if I query you for a second?
[00:22:32] <DeadYak> go for it
[00:22:42] <DeadYak> EuanK: "atombios"?
[00:22:54] <EuanK> new bios arch for radeon
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[00:26:08] <DeadYak> EuanK: interesting
[00:26:26] <DeadYak> EuanK: so is this for the driver or for reflashing the radeon itself?
[00:26:48] <EuanK> no the R400+ cards use a new interface for getting bios stuffs, and things
[00:27:18] <DeadYak> ahh
[00:27:32] <EuanK> the atombios also does things like enable outputs, tv out etc, and is more of a microcode / binary blob
[00:27:33] <Begasus> g'night peeps
[00:27:35] <EuanK> night
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[00:28:11] <Begasus> plop
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[00:28:28] <DeadYak> EuanK: neat
[00:28:38] <EuanK> it will be one day
[00:28:38] <DeadYak> EuanK: so my RV430 would be using that?
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[00:30:08] <EuanK> maybe, the R400 doesn't need it too much and the required values were reverse engineered.  R500 depends on it much more.
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[00:30:57] <DeadYak> ah
[00:32:38] <EuanK> right am off night all
[00:32:46] <DeadYak> night :)
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[00:34:42] <DeadYak> wb
[00:34:52] <kslc> ty
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[00:42:57] <Schmedly3D> Wow, I'm more amazed by Haiku every day..
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[00:43:11] <Schmedly3D>  I've got some of my game engine building with BeIDE along with TinyXML and parts of Boost and (knock on wood) I don't have a single bit of trouble
[00:43:59] <Schmedly3D> I wonder if I could get ODE to compile on Haiku... hmmm
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[00:48:06] <DHowett> ls
[00:48:12] <DHowett> .. hah, i don't know WHY i just did that
[00:48:38] <stpere> :)
[00:54:19] <stpere> question
[00:54:43] <DeadYak> yep?
[00:54:44] <DHowett> Asketh
[00:54:48] <stpere> Hmm
[00:54:56] <stpere> I have a compressed string in a header
[00:55:07] <stpere> ok, the string represent an image
[00:55:11] <stpere> not a filename, but data
[00:55:39] <stpere> ok, now I need to decompress that string during framebuffer init, in the kernel
[00:55:51] <DeadYak> right
[00:55:52] <stpere> and be able to access that data into userland too
[00:56:03] <stpere> (because the splashboot is in userland..)
[00:56:18] <stpere> I get a page fault
[00:56:21] <stpere> obviously
[00:56:34] <stpere> since I allocate the decompressed image from within the kernel
[00:56:48] <stpere> where I need the image first, during framebuffer init
[00:57:06] <stpere> someone see a way to share the object? otherwise I will simply decompress it twice..)
[00:57:18] <DeadYak> what in userland needs it?
[00:57:27] <stpere> splashboot
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[00:57:40] <stpere> well, I suppose it is in userland
[00:57:40] <DeadYak> does splashboot run as a team or what?
[00:57:48] <stpere> I don't know
[00:57:52] <stpere> I assume it is
[00:58:02] <stpere> but I might be wrong (most probably)
[00:58:12] <stpere> oh wait
[00:58:15] <stpere> it's in kernel folder
[00:58:39] <stpere>         uint8 * decompressedPtr = (uint8*)malloc(decompressedSize*sizeof(uint8));
[00:59:17] <stpere> is that the right "malloc" function to use?
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[00:59:30] <stpere> hmm, I will give you the exact error message I get
[00:59:42] <DeadYak> you might need to be using kmalloc
[00:59:51] <DeadYak> hm
[00:59:53] <DeadYak> maybe not
[01:00:13] <DeadYak> I'm not sure why you'd be losing the ptr though
[01:00:34] <stpere> http://pastebin.com/m62435837
[01:00:37] <stpere> hmm
[01:00:49] <DHowett> I try to boot haiku on real hardware and i get a page fault in -xdeadbeef
[01:00:50] <DHowett> 0x*
[01:00:51] <DHowett> =[
[01:00:53] <DeadYak> fault at 0x2
[01:00:59] <DeadYak> that implies an array offset off a NULL ptr
[01:01:12] <zlominus__> What do you think aqbout the software using Glib ? Should Glib be replaced with Haiku/Beos alternative facilities or just used as there is a beos glib port?
[01:01:47] <DHowett> use the port because otherwise it'd be monstrous to port glib-using software to it (like libpurple)
[01:02:31] <zlominus__> I guess it depends upon "how much" of glib is used ...
[01:03:33] <zlominus__> I plan to try porting OpenSync framerwork. It would be nice to have it on system such as Haiku
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[01:04:38] <Enauv> does haiku have support for things like sys/mman.h?
[01:05:50] <DeadYak> we don't seem to have that header right now...I know the VM's capable of doing memory mapped files though
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[01:07:37] <aljen> hey =)
[01:07:37] * Enauv sighs
[01:07:42] <Enauv> hey
[01:08:53] <Enauv> well, apparently libxml2 uses it
[01:08:54] <Enauv> so...
[01:10:40] <DeadYak> I'd say file a ticket, assuming there isn't one already
[01:11:18] <Enauv> no, there is
[01:11:31] <Enauv> I was just wondering if there was a quick hack to fix it in the meanwhile
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[01:13:14] <DeadYak> not that I know of offhand, unless libxml2 allows you to compile it without mmap support
[01:13:23] <Enauv> ahh... sadness
[01:13:29] <Enauv> yea, I looked and there's a define guard
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[01:16:00] * Enauv hates vim with a burning passion
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[01:17:54] <pyCube> then why use it?
[01:18:18] <DeadYak> hi mmlr :)
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[01:18:27] <mmlr> hi there
[01:18:40] <DeadYak> how're things?
[01:18:42] <DHowett> // check for double free, and fill freed memory with 0xdeadbeef
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[01:18:55] <DHowett> =[ I get a fault at 0xDEADBEEF when i boot on real hardware
[01:19:06] <DeadYak> DHowett: with what rev?
[01:19:06] <mmlr> good <- chatting from a usb stick booted haiku :-)
[01:19:11] <DeadYak> mmlr: oh nice :)
[01:20:22] <DHowett> DeadYak: That I don't know; the one I have checked out is 24798 but the one i was booting was similar in age to that
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[01:20:32] <DHowett> DeadYak: Hold on, lemme mount it and check out 'strings' output
[01:22:02] <DHowett> if only the linux befs driver could read attributes i'd figure it out :P
[01:24:19] <Enauv> gah
[01:24:23] <Enauv> I have need for MMAP!
[01:24:44] <DHowett> Hmm. Qemu/kvm triple-faults when the haikuj boot floppy
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[01:26:51] <Enauv> really?
[01:26:54] <Enauv> loads fine for me
[01:27:14] <aljen> lol first time on #iphonelinux there is >108 ppl, today propably is a release hehe
[01:27:46] <Enauv> is iphonelinux possible?
[01:27:53] <aljen> yeah
[01:27:54] <Enauv> what with encrypted firmware and such?
[01:28:03] <DeadYak> one word: jailbreak
[01:28:05] <aljen> nothing, they managed how to get rid of signing code
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[01:28:10] <aljen> not jailbreak
[01:28:17] <aljen> patching bootloader to accept not signed code
[01:28:21] <aljen> apple iBoot
[01:28:22] <DeadYak> ah
[01:28:23] <Enauv> huh
[01:28:25] <Enauv> that won't last long
[01:28:26] <DeadYak> interesting
[01:28:44] <DHowett> DeadYak: r24753.
[01:28:50] <aljen> if anybody is interrested irc.osx86.hu #iphonelinux ;P
[01:29:06] <DeadYak> DHowett: get a newer one, there were some major issues with Axel's patches to the block cache around then
[01:29:15] <Enauv> If I had an iphone...
[01:29:25] <DHowett> alright, i'll jam this one straight to disk then.. latest rev already built :)
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[01:33:46] <mmadia> wow... i dislike configure scripts.
[01:38:10] * cshaiku pokes mmadia
[01:38:27] <mmadia> chris ?
[01:38:39] <cshaiku> yo
[01:38:58] <mmadia> of TBJ / HN.org?
[01:39:01] <cshaiku> yup
[01:39:10] <mmadia> whoa.  how've you been?   : )
[01:39:16] <cshaiku> hehe... good, good
[01:39:23] <cshaiku> was waiting for the reaction to sink in
[01:39:24] <cshaiku>  :)
[01:40:03] <cshaiku> haikunews.org is back, I'll be publishing some material soon too
[01:40:24] <cshaiku> just thought I'd drop my hat in here, and hang out, it seems to be the place
[01:40:46] <cshaiku> I have a colo at work, so can connect irssi to this irc, 24/7, that sort of thing
[01:40:47] <mmadia> things have been picking up lately :  )
[01:40:55] <cshaiku> indeed they have, for sure
[01:41:23] <cshaiku> I also built and got running the latest dev haiku last night, first time I did that in years.
[01:41:40] <cshaiku> its bloody fast, lots of major work I can tell has gone into it, huge respect to the devs
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[01:41:54] <mmadia> yeah, they've been amazing
[01:42:34] <cshaiku> Haiku is -this- close to the tipping point in getting the first alpha done, I think
[01:43:21] <cshaiku> anyhow, just wanted to say hi, mmadia, glad to see an old face
[01:44:13] <mmadia> same here : )
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[01:45:48] <mmadia> side question,  is there any reasoning behind uname -m returning "BePC"?   especially as `uname -s` already breaks most configure scripts
[01:46:11] <DeadYak> what should it return? :)
[01:46:37] <mmadia> 575x86?   : P
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[01:48:45] <mmadia> just doesn't make sense to change only some of uname.
[01:48:54] <mmadia> *to me
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[01:49:49] <pyCube> heh.. i was just given a piece of clothing with the logo of the film were working on on it
[01:49:52] <pyCube> fancy stuff
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[01:50:33] <DHowett> well, it boots. I still don't have any keyboard or mouse input :P
[01:50:35] <DHowett> that's okay
[01:52:09] <mmlr> DHowett using an ohci usb controller?
[01:52:35] <DeadYak> I have the same problem, but I have USB/PS2 adapters so that deals with it for me for the time being
[01:53:00] <DHowett> mmlr; I imagine so. I can't disable legacy USB support in my bios and I don't have any PS/2 connectors (my keyboard and mouse are ps2 though laptop.)
[01:53:57] <mmlr> DHowett ever tried warm booting haiku on that? because I get the same with my laptop here
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[01:54:11] <mmadia> this is probably unrelated, but if i periodically generate keyboard + mouse input, they tend to work more often.  the mouse is ps/2 and the keyboard is usb.
[01:54:12] <DeadYak> mmlr: I'm curious, why is it possible to do that USB1 device over USB2 hub trick, but not directly accept USB1 devices on the EHCI port?
[01:54:25] <umccullough_work> must...not...feed...troll...
[01:54:32] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: Luposian?
[01:54:34] <mmlr> umccullough_work ;)
[01:54:39] <umccullough_work> yeah
[01:54:48] * DeadYak is so tired of him
[01:54:57] <DHowett> mmadia: Yeah, i was abot to move the mouse by flailing wildly on it booting an image i removed every trace of USB from
[01:55:01] <umccullough_work> i'm not gonna reply, although i just want to tell him to stop spamming the goddamn list and hijacking threads for his own enjoyment
[01:55:33] <DHowett> mmlr: warm boot howso
[01:55:38] <umccullough_work> i wish whoever admins the list would just give him a warning that anything considered spamming, trolling, or general uselessness from him warrants a ban
[01:55:48] <DeadYak> DHowett: ctrl+alt+del as opposed to power off/on
[01:55:56] <mmlr> DeadYak: because at the ports you have two controllers one ehci and one uhci or ohci
[01:56:19] <mmlr> DeadYak: then you either plug in usb 1.1 or usb 2.0 and one of the controllers will pick it up
[01:56:23] <DHowett> DeadYak: Control-alt-del from in haiku? doesn't work :P
[01:56:36] <DeadYak> DHowett: restart from Deskbar has the same net effect
[01:56:46] <DeadYak> mmlr: ah
[01:57:10] <mmlr> DeadYak: but when you plug in a 2.0 hub it will be ehci and to support usb 1.1 the hub "translates" that port over the high speed bus
[01:57:18] <DeadYak> mmlr: ahh
[01:57:20] <DeadYak> mmlr: understood
[01:57:23] <DHowett> DeadYak: If only I could restart from the deskbar. No mouse or keyboard whatsoever, ps2 or usb :)
[01:57:32] <DeadYak> DHowett: ah.
[01:57:39] <DeadYak> I'm not sure the reset button counts as warm...
[01:57:45] <DHowett> Hugs all around, according to Luposian. Palm slaps abound. Please kill me. :P
[01:57:47] <mmlr> DeadYak: if they were really clever back then they would have simply implemented a hub directly after the ehci controller and before the actual ports
[01:58:03] <DeadYak> mmlr: fair enough
[01:58:30] <DHowett> DeadYak: I could try modifying the bootscript so that on the first boot it'd reboot (shutdown -r now given that that would work in haiku) , just to test to see if that'd help. hmm.
[01:58:45] <DeadYak> DHowett: shutdown -r, no now needed
[01:58:46] <mmlr> DHowett: for example boot haiku into safe-mode and then shutdown -r from there and boot haiku normally
[01:59:00] <DHowett> mmlr: No input in safe mode either.
[01:59:24] <DHowett> 'least, never used to be
[01:59:32] <mmlr> DHowett: well then you're probably out of luck for now - for me input works reliably in safemode
[01:59:46] <DHowett> ah, lucky :)
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[02:00:47] <umccullough_work> safe mode should be using the BIOS calls for input right?
[02:01:29] <mmlr> umccullough_work: no, but it uses polling of the ps2 regs instead of the interrupt based approach
[02:01:35] <umccullough_work> hmm
[02:01:49] <umccullough_work> so even if the keyboard works in the boot menu, not necessarily in safemode
[02:01:56] <DeadYak> interesting, that I didn't know
[02:02:22] * umccullough_work adds that bit of info to his list of lies he must not tell any more
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[02:08:55] <umccullough_work> mmlr, usb boot - NICE :) (reading back through the log)
[02:09:04] * umccullough_work checks prices on 2gb USB sticks
[02:09:29] <mmlr> umccullough_work: they're pretty cheap, but performance essentially sucks
[02:10:36] <umccullough_work> yeah, better than CD i hope :P
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[02:10:51] <mmlr> umccullough_work: these devices are made for large chunks of data like movies, audio or even pics - they suck for random small reads and writes
[02:10:56] <umccullough_work> $8USD after rebate...hmm...
[02:11:18] <umccullough_work> mmlr, still convenient for a quick test :)
[02:11:26] <umccullough_work> moreso than a livecd i would guess
[02:11:31] <umccullough_work> and writeable!
[02:11:45] <mmlr> umccullough_work: absolutely and way easier to update too ;)
[02:11:49] <umccullough_work> yup
[02:12:05] <umccullough_work> I'll probably pick a few up on the way home tonight - i've been meaning to anyway since I need 'em
[02:12:07] <AnEvilYak> let's see if this thing manages to make it through a checkout...
[02:12:18] <umccullough_work> my 4gb USB stick is...full
[02:13:16] <umccullough_work> 8gb USB for $35 after rebate...
[02:13:20] <umccullough_work> that's tempting
[02:13:27] <mmlr> will add some more shortcuts to the usb stack so loading the stack gets lighter - that should also help a bit
[02:14:02] <mmlr> anyway, it's late and I still have to test my last commit ;)
[02:14:07] <mmlr> so bye everyone
[02:14:10] <DeadYak> night :)
[02:14:12] <DeadYak> nice seeing you
[02:14:12] <umccullough_work> 'night
[02:14:19] <umccullough_work> ditto here
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[02:21:01] <mmadia> what file dictates which local zipfiles are to be unzipped to the haiku.image?
[02:21:10] <DeadYak> UserBuildConfig
[02:21:51] <mmadia> can i just remove the ".Readme"?   *joking*
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[02:22:36] <DeadYak> there should be a sample of how to do it in there
[02:22:40] <Kokito> howdy
[02:22:59] * DeadYak pets Kokito
[02:23:49] <Kokito> hello DeadYak :)
[02:24:34] <DeadYak> how's it going?
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[02:25:35] <pyCube> oh man... i am SO going to the asparagus festival this year
[02:25:52] <Kokito> DeadYak, not bad. catching up with work these days
[02:26:06] <DeadYak> pyCube: there's an asparagus festival? o.0
[02:26:09] <Kokito> and playing with website stats :P
[02:26:12] <DeadYak> Kokito: ah fun
[02:26:21] <pyCube> DeadYak: yeah.. in Stockton, CA
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[02:26:27] <DeadYak> Kokito: I'm curious, does dev.haiku-os.org run off a different server from the main website?
[02:26:30] <DeadYak> pyCube: ah
[02:26:36] <Kokito> yes DeadYak
[02:26:41] <DeadYak> pyCube: I wouldn't have thought people would do a festival dedicated to that
[02:26:48] <DeadYak> Kokito: ah
[02:27:13] <pyCube> DeadYak: its not everywhere you can commercially grow asparagus.. and were they do, they celebrate it.. hehe
[02:27:43] <Kokito> pyCube, are you in Stockton?
[02:28:21] <pyCube> Kokito: no, Petaluma..
[02:28:34] <pyCube> close enough to drive to Stinkton for a day
[02:28:44] <Kokito> ah, yes, close enough
[02:29:12] <Kokito> pyCube, you should join us in San Francisco next weekend
[02:29:21] <pyCube> for?
[02:29:40] <Kokito> we are going to have a Haiku booth at the LugRadio Live 2008 event
[02:29:48] <Kokito> at the Metreon in SF
[02:30:01] <Kokito> April 12 & 13
[02:30:21] <pyCube> maybe i'll swing by.. my kids have been wanting to go to SF anyway
[02:30:26] <Kokito> http://www.haiku-os.org/conference/2008/lugradio_live_usa_2008
[02:31:03] <Kokito> hmm... not sure if it would be a good place for kids. I hear the LugRadio folks are a bit wild :)
[02:31:22] <pyCube> heh
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[02:33:01] <Kokito> stuff like this can happen: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1328/799483638_b8983eddbd.jpg?v=0
[02:33:17] <Kokito> that's from last year
[02:33:50] <pyCube> people being crazy/wild/stupid isnt enough to shock my kids
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[02:38:21] <Kokito> pyCube, that's cool. just thought I would mention it just in case :)
[02:38:36] <pyCube> yep.. thanks for the concern
[02:38:44] <CIA-47> mmlr * r24804 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/usb/ (BusManager.cpp Device.cpp Hub.cpp usb_p.h):
[02:38:44] <CIA-47> * Another tiny cut in stack load time: do not delay after setting the current
[02:38:44] <CIA-47>  configuration of a root hub
[02:38:44] <CIA-47> * Cut down on number of retries to set the initial device address
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[02:51:31] <umccullough_work> mmadia, will you still be online in a few hours?
[02:51:56] <umccullough_work> nm, doesn't matter :)
[02:51:58] <mmadia> sure
[02:52:03] <umccullough_work> ok
[02:52:06] <umccullough_work> was sorta curious
[02:52:13] <umccullough_work> you working on any more FF builds?
[02:52:59] <mmadia> only non-patched versions.   i never bothered figuring out which patches should be applied.
[02:53:40] <umccullough_work> Kokito, consider me extremely tentative for the LUGRadio thing - I'll probably be here at work during that weekend :(
[02:53:47] <mmadia> what's up?
[02:53:51] * umccullough_work hangs head in shame
[02:54:32] * Kokito is afraid he may end up spending the weekend alone in SF...
[02:54:43] <umccullough_work> no andrew or scott?
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[02:55:25] <umccullough_work> mmadia, mostly i was just conversing - nothing specific :)
[02:55:57] <umccullough_work> i might be tempted to try porting Git to Haiku
[02:56:11] <umccullough_work> i'm sure it's a lot more involved than I can cope with though
[02:58:01] <mmadia> what is Git?
[02:58:14] <umccullough_work> source control proggy like svn/cvs, etc.
[02:58:23] <umccullough_work> it's what the linux kernel devs use now
[02:58:27] <umccullough_work> and a few other things :)
[02:58:45] <umccullough_work> nasm uses it now i think...
[02:59:09] <Kokito> umccullough, no firm commitment from anyone
[02:59:37] <umccullough_work> Kokito, i'm sorry :(
[03:00:14] <ozy`> everybody seems to be switching to git
[03:00:20] <ozy`> it's all rubinius' fault
[03:00:37] <Kokito> umccullough_work, that's ok
[03:01:09] <umccullough_work> Kokito, i'm still definitely on for linuxworld AFAIK
[03:01:27] <umccullough_work> should be hearing about that booth soon i would think - after the april 11 cutoff?
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[03:03:14] <Kokito> last year they made the decision on mid-may
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[03:17:20] <stpere> I hate when I know it should be easy to do and still struggle on something I _know_ is obvious
[03:17:49] * stpere should have paid more attention during that particular class :)
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[03:22:10] <stpere> hi johannes_
[03:22:39] * stpere stop coding for a few minutes otherwise he will cry in a corner of the room :)
[03:26:14] <johannes_> hi stpere
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[03:54:55] <stpere> someone know what is the relation between the kernel and the bootsplash?
[03:55:35] <stpere> I will precise my question :)
[03:55:43] <cb88> urrhm ...uses the framebuffer built into the kernel i assume
[03:55:47] <geist> might help
[03:56:23] <stpere> why can't I share a pointer declared into video.cpp with boot_splash.cpp ?
[03:56:43] <geist> might be remapped
[03:56:45] <geist> via the mmu
[03:56:51] <stpere> ah
[03:56:59] <geist> you'd have to know the physical address of the framebuffer
[03:57:42] <stpere> I will explain quickly what I tried to do, tell me if it's casher
[03:57:45] <stpere> kasher*
[03:58:11] <stpere> I declare  the pointer in boot/images.h
[03:58:18] <stpere> then malloc it in video.cpp
[03:58:23] <stpere> use it there
[03:58:29] <stpere> and use it again in boot_splash.cpp
[03:58:44] <stpere> does that kind of sharing in the kernel correct?
[03:59:01] <aljen> stpere: you can't, you can for example add variable void *foo; in kernel_args, and from main.cpp in kernel do sth with that bu you need to map it
[04:00:18] <aljen> and where are you playing bootloader video.cpp or bootsplash ?
[04:01:18] <aljen> i tryied that in first versions of bootsplash and it was working ok... but from bootloader you are limited by mem available to alloc ;P
[04:01:51] <stpere> sorry, where am I playing bootloader?
[04:03:11] <aljen> bootsplash works in that way, in src/system/boot/platform/bios_ia32/video.cpp platform_switch_to_logo splash is blitted and initial icons, now later in kernel bootsplash set_bootsplash_stage icons are blitted
[04:03:43] <stpere> yup
[04:04:53] <aljen> sorry maybe i dont understanded your question, lets start from the beginning what are you trying to do :)
[04:05:02] <stpere> hehe
[04:05:21] <stpere> ok, I have a boot/images.h file containing the images (logo and icons)
[04:05:40] <stpere> I have done a RLE encoding, hoping to reduce the size of the images
[04:05:53] <stpere> that part works (I tested with static arrays, and it displays ok)
[04:06:13] <stpere> but now I want to be able to clear the memory after the bootsplash is gone
[04:06:21] <stpere> so I'm using pointers now
[04:06:28] <stpere> now, it isn't working..
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[04:06:57] <stpere> so.. my question is..
[04:07:05] <aljen> ah, maybe modyfi boot_splash_gen to generate RLE encoded images and later uncompress them
[04:07:22] <stpere> that's what I've done actually
[04:07:40] <stpere> I've malloc the pointer
[04:07:50] <stpere> and when I write it, it crashes Haiku
[04:08:05] <stpere> that's my first problem actually I forgot to mention :)
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[04:08:13] <aljen> where in bootloader or in kernel it crashes ? :)
[04:09:58] <stpere> http://pastebin.com/m38f5d20a
[04:10:20] <stpere> it crashes within video.cpp
[04:10:27] <stpere> the debug 1 line is from me
[04:10:43] <stpere> it's right before I fill the uncompressed array
[04:10:50] <aljen> video.cpp is bootloader part
[04:10:52] <stpere> after the malloc
[04:10:55] <stpere> ah ok
[04:11:33] <aljen> maybe paste sources of your mod to video.cpp
[04:11:39] <stpere> ok, sec
[04:14:16] <stpere> http://pastebin.com/m351dee06
[04:14:28] <stpere> there is some other parts too
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[04:14:38] <stpere> but I think that's the interesting part
[04:14:55] <stpere> I will paste also how I declare the pointer in images.h
[04:15:30] <stpere> static uint8 * kSplashLogoDecompressedImage;
[04:16:03] <stpere> it crashes in the loop between debug 1 and decompression 1
[04:16:33] <aljen> are you sure ? i think it crashes because malloc cannot alloc that big part of mem
[04:16:40] <stpere> oh maybe
[04:16:45] <stpere> hmm
[04:16:57] <aljen> there's kern_args_malloc or sth ike that
[04:17:00] <aljen> one sec
[04:17:18] <DeadYak> I forget, is it still in real mode at that point?
[04:18:14] <aljen> stpere: kernel_args_malloc
[04:18:17] <aljen> try this one
[04:18:34] <stpere> I never really coded much within a kernel before, I'm sorry if what I ask sounds dumb
[04:18:37] <stpere> :)
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[04:19:58] <stpere> compiling, sec..
[04:19:58] <aljen> HEAP_SIZE is 65536 and malloc cannot alloc more then that Axel told me to use kern_args_malloc instead
[04:20:26] <aljen> stpere: dont worry, me too ;P
[04:20:52] <aljen> there were 6 versions of bootsplash, even bootloader BResources reader/parser ;d
[04:21:08] <DeadYak> 6? ouch
[04:21:13] <DeadYak> didn't know you went through that many iterations :)\
[04:21:16] <aljen> yeah, sad but true ;P
[04:21:25] <aroman> hello all
[04:21:31] <aroman> I'm back :)
[04:21:32] <DeadYak> evening
[04:21:35] <aljen> hey aroman :)
[04:21:38] <DeadYak> how was class? or work or wherever it was :)
[04:21:52] <aroman> work... was all right... Friday :P
[04:22:01] <stpere> alright! :)
[04:22:06] <aroman> :)
[04:22:09] <stpere> something begins to work now
[04:22:11] <aljen> stpere: working ? :)
[04:22:14] <aljen> great :)
[04:22:20] <stpere> still some bugs.. but I get initial display
[04:22:26] <aroman> time to figure out how hostname resolution actually works in Haiku! :P
[04:22:57] <DeadYak> :)
[04:24:35] <stpere> aljen: should I call free()?
[04:24:41] <stpere> or is there a special version?
[04:24:53] <aljen> you can delete too ;P its cpp ;p
[04:25:00] <stpere> oh :)
[04:25:39] <DeadYak> I might be wrong, but I thought generally you're not supposed to mix alloc/free and new/delete
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[04:26:27] <aljen> DeadYak: hm maybe you're right, so stpere use free for safety :)
[04:26:44] <DeadYak> aljen: I'm relatively certain you shouldn't use delete on something you created with malloc anyways
[04:26:53] <aljen> ah thanks :)
[04:26:59] <DeadYak> and vice versa
[04:27:50] <aljen> DeadYak: ok, you've got right "Never mix malloc with delete OR new with free | C4Swimmers.Net ..." 1st page on google
[04:27:58] <aljen> :)
[04:28:03] <DeadYak> :)
[04:28:11] <geist> meh. in haiku you can just look atwhether or not that's safe
[04:28:27] <geist> most implementations just make new and delete use malloc and free
[04:29:21] <aljen> ah good to know :)
[04:32:17] <DeadYak> geist: I thought new/delete do some extra work/bookkeeping in the case of objs so they know whether or not to call c'tor/d'tors
[04:32:34] <DeadYak> wasn't sure if delete would react healthily to something that hadn't been tracked in that way
[04:35:56] <geist> delete[] is a completely different can o' worms
[04:41:51] * JonathanThompson reaches conclusion based on observation that databases allow a whole new level of spaghetti code creation when the database is used within itself via private tables to define how things work, and developers can't be consistent on naming conventions for key things (pardon the pun!)
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[04:47:39] <DeadYak> geist: care to elaborate?
[04:48:10] <geist> delete[] definitely does not cohabitate with malloc and free
[04:48:15] <DeadYak> ah
[04:48:20] <geist> but that's because it definitely does store some extras
[04:48:28] <DeadYak> understood
[04:48:31] <geist> but you can't really mix them anyway, because it really means something else anyway
[04:48:42] <DeadYak> can one assume the same about new type[] then ?
[04:48:48] <geist> yep
[04:48:57] <geist> probably has to store a count
[04:49:04] <DeadYak> makes sense
[04:49:10] <geist> unless it's stored out of band somehow
[04:49:16] <geist> a table that looks up by address, who knows
[04:50:20] <geist> which actually brings up an interesting question. if you were to do a placement new[], how would you know how much buffer to allocate?
[04:50:31] <DeadYak> "placement new"?
[04:50:35] <geist> I think i needed to know this one time, but i totally forgot
[04:50:42] <geist> ooh, bsg back on
[04:50:44] <geist> later
[04:50:47] <JonathanThompson> sizeof
[04:50:48] <DeadYak> lol
[04:50:50] <DeadYak> see ya :)
[04:51:10] * JonathanThompson notes geist has his priorities
[04:51:23] <JonathanThompson> I'll be watching it at the 9 p.m. local (eastern) timezone broadcast, via DirecTV.
[04:51:47] <geist> uh, wsn't that a while ago?
[04:52:08] <stpere> yeah, it's 22:52!
[04:52:34] <JonathanThompson> Well, 9 p.m. my time, but I'm catching it on a rebroadcast.
[04:52:56] <stpere> oh ok
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[05:07:15] <stpere> someone know how I can access to kernel_args_malloc from within boot_splash.cpp?
[05:07:42] <aljen> boot_splash is kernel side
[05:07:45] <aljen> so just use malloc
[05:08:12] <stpere> oh ok
[05:08:14] <stpere> thx
[05:08:19] <aljen> np :)
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[05:11:44] <stpere> hi eightbit :)
[05:11:50] <stpere> nice nick
[05:11:56] <eightbit> hey
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[05:15:01] <umccullough_x> wtf
[05:15:02] <umccullough_x> split?
[05:15:03] <stpere> yup
[05:15:18] <umccullough_x> funny, my machine in the other room was on a different server :)
[05:15:25] <stpere> :)
[05:15:39] <cb88> heh so that is what happened X.x
[05:16:01] <cb88> strange aim went down too
[05:16:14] <umccullough_x> been some nasty splits today  think
[05:16:16] <umccullough_x> *I*
[05:16:30] <cb88> so did another irc net i was on
[05:16:40] <cb88> not even freenode
[05:16:48] <DeadYak> most likely level 3 or somebody went boom
[05:17:14] <cb88> prolly
[05:17:31] <geist> probably the other side ofthe planet has been anhiliated
[05:17:42] <geist> the shock wave just hasn't got here yet
[05:17:43] <stpere> :O that's us!
[05:17:50] <cb88> LOL .... wait thats not funneh
[05:17:57] <umccullough_x> including my machine in the the other room :)
[05:18:02] <slaad> Meep!
[05:18:05] <umccullough_x> damn, this "i" key sucks
[05:18:10] <geist> internet was supposed to survive a nuke attack
[05:18:21] <cb88> well i got a tyan here than almost boots haiku
[05:19:21] <aroman> Why is netdb.h in kits/network/old/compat/libnet/headers/? Why the "old"?
[05:20:48] <umccullough_x> could be multiple reasons
[05:20:59] <cb88> i get "error starting "/bin/sh" error = -2147478780"
[05:21:00] <umccullough_x> first, haiku has been through like 3 netstacks...
[05:21:13] <umccullough_x> second, there's a compatibility layer for R5's net_server
[05:22:07] <aroman> ic...
[05:22:40] <stpere> yay!
[05:22:40] <aroman> and there's probably nothing like the unix nsswitch, right?
[05:22:43] <stpere> finally working :)
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[05:24:03] * umccullough_x stole a keyboard from a parts laptop
[05:24:27] <umccullough_x> ...
[05:24:58] <geist> the great netsplit of 4/4 draws to a close
[05:25:03] <geist> NEVER FORGET
[05:25:04] <stpere> welcome back guys :)
[05:25:23] <umccullough_x> dude, we were there!
[05:26:05] <stpere> hehe :)
[05:26:18] <stpere> I meant, the others.. ;-) you know.. /they/
[05:26:53] <DHowett> You can't imagine the things I've seen. 11 people from the channel I was in, man.. 11 people just DISAPPEARED.. You don't know how that affects a man
[05:26:59] <DHowett> PTSD ;)
[05:27:23] <umccullough_x> i remember once, EVERYONE in a channel disappeared except me...that was crazy
[05:27:34] <umccullough_x> oh...maybe that was something else
[05:27:46] <cb88> so how are you coping with bash shock?
[05:28:04] <DHowett> hehe
[05:28:07] <stpere> how do I know if the kernel consume less memory after all the changes I did?
[05:28:20] <stpere> I look at memory consumption of team_kernel?
[05:28:45] * stpere forgot to note what value it had BEFORE! :(
[05:28:56] <umccullough_x> revert!
[05:29:07] <stpere> hmm
[05:29:11] <umccullough_x> let's see f this laptop can cope wth a keyboard swap whiile on
[05:29:23] <DHowett> O_O
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[05:30:41] <umccullough_x> yeah?
[05:30:42] <umccullough_x>  :)
[05:30:53] <umccullough_x> nice, the I works now
[05:31:04] <DHowett> nice
[05:31:20] <umccullough_x> this keyboard feels a lot better - probably didn't get much use
[05:32:17] <umccullough_x> the machine i got it from was an inspiron 5150... crazy eh?
[05:32:33] <DHowett> hehe
[05:33:05] <DeadYak> stpere: that's one of those things that's relatively difficult to quantitatively measure...it's more about how much space it takes on disk really in this case
[05:33:09] <aljen> stpere: alloc decompress blit free ;P
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[05:36:38] <umccullough_x> yeah, less space on disk == less load time :)
[05:37:08] <JonathanThompson> Less sanity == less stress from standard stuff ;)
[05:37:18] <umccullough_x> eh?
[05:37:22] <umccullough_x> oh right, yes that makes sense
[05:37:25] <JonathanThompson> ehxactly!
[05:37:35] <umccullough_x> i was thinking you meant the other way around
[05:38:05] <JonathanThompson> Of course, it then means more stress from other less  standard things, or no stress at all...
[05:38:14] <JonathanThompson> (I'm not that lucky)
[05:38:30] <DeadYak> umccullough_x: it's partly that and partly making it easier to fit on a boot floppy
[05:39:31] <umccullough_x> :)
[05:39:45] * umccullough_x hugs his floppy disks
[05:40:09] <stpere> which file is it ? kernel.so or kernel_x86?
[05:40:29] <umccullough_x> _x86 i would guess
[05:40:37] <DeadYak> kernel_x86
[05:40:49] <DeadYak> though if you're talking about boot splash, I would guess that's actually being loaded into zbeos
[05:40:51] <DeadYak> I might be wrong
[05:40:57] <umccullough_x> mm...
[05:41:06] <umccullough_x> that makes sense
[05:41:09] <DeadYak> since the boot splash graphics are needed immediately
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[05:44:57] <aljen> right now, bootsplash is in zbeos and kernel_x86 because hedaer with data is included both in bootloader and kernel
[05:45:25] <umccullough_x> oh, that's not efficient ;)
[05:45:31] <stpere> no, definitely not
[05:45:37] <aljen> i know ;P
[05:45:46] <stpere> and might explain why I had trouble sharing the pointer :)
[05:47:05] <aljen> dont have time right now to rewrite it to load it in zbeos only and share with kernel ;/
[05:48:50] <umccullough_x> i think i'm gonna reinstall the linux partition on this laptop with xubuntu instead of ubunut
[05:48:52] <umccullough_x> ubuntu
[05:49:31] <DeadYak> umccullough: you realize you can convert one into the other
[05:50:10] <stpere> I shaved 248 bytes..
[05:50:13] <DeadYak> err umccullough_x that is
[05:50:15] <stpere> only :(
[05:50:16] <umccullough_x> DeadYak:  not cleanly
[05:50:23] <DeadYak> umccullough_x: define "cleanly"
[05:50:38] <umccullough_x> well, i guess it wouldn't be as bad as kubuntu->xubuntu was :/
[05:50:46] <aljen> as i remember there is *-desktop when you install it it changes to it (tested kubuntu-desktop once)
[05:50:56] <DeadYak> indeed
[05:51:03] <DeadYak> sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[05:51:09] <umccullough_x> xubuntu comes with a different set of default apps
[05:51:32] <DeadYak> the tricky part is removing the pkgs that belong to ubuntu desktop that aren't part of xubuntu by default
[05:51:42] <aljen> umccullough_x: ctrl-alt-f1; sudo /etc/init.d/gdm stop; apt-get uninstall ubuntu-desktop; apt-get install xubuntu-desktop ;p
[05:51:50] <DeadYak> or that
[05:51:53] <umccullough_x> DeadYak:  exactly - i did go down that road from kubuntu to xubuntu and eventually just reinstalled :)
[05:52:14] <umccullough_x> aljen:  there is more than the desktop package
[05:52:19] <umccullough_x> there's the artwork for example
[05:52:28] <aljen> *-desktop is meta package as i remember
[05:52:29] <DeadYak> the desktop package is just a meta package I thought
[05:52:33] <aljen> and its install the whole thing
[05:52:34] <DeadYak> it grabs everything else
[05:52:54] <umccullough_x> last time i tried that, the boot splash was wrong still and I had to manually remove the old package
[05:53:02] <umccullough_x> and a bunch of other crap...
[05:53:08] <DeadYak> did you do it the way he just said? :)
[05:53:15] <umccullough_x> basically
[05:53:25] <umccullough_x> except with synaptic rather than apt-get
[05:53:29] <DeadYak> I dunno, I had no real issue with it myself
[05:53:34] <umccullough_x> but i *did* use the metapackage
[05:53:44] <DeadYak> though I'm currently living life dangerously and have mine on KDE4.x
[05:53:47] <aljen> i changed kubuntu -> ubuntu in that way and it worked fine
[05:53:49] <umccullough_x> in any case, along the way I plan to change the partitions here anyway
[05:54:01] <umccullough_x> aljen:  you got rid of all the Krap?
[05:54:01] <DeadYak> yeah, I need to change my partition layout as well
[05:54:06] <aljen> yeah
[05:54:07] <DeadYak> didn't have time as yet
[05:54:11] <umccullough_x> mine didn't
[05:54:18] <DeadYak> and I don't feel like setting up my build env all over again
[05:54:35] <aljen> umccullough_x: but it didnt uninstall all kstuff i installed myself
[05:54:36] <umccullough_x> DeadYak:  for haiku?
[05:54:39] <DeadYak> yes.
[05:54:50] <umccullough_x> DeadYak: doesn't take long except all the custom stuff :)
[05:54:57] <DeadYak> umccullough_x: and my ssh keys and such
[05:55:01] <umccullough_x> oh right
[05:55:05] * umccullough_x only uses anon
[05:55:45] <DeadYak> but yeah, I'd like to change my partitions so I have a BFS data partition that I can store things like the source tree on
[05:55:51] <DeadYak> so I don't have to re-svn that every time I rebuild
[05:56:08] <umccullough_x> DeadYak: yeah - i just redid my usual haiku machine with an 80gb disk
[05:56:11] <DeadYak> though svn's been a good torture test for Axel's rewrites lately :)
[05:56:16] <umccullough_x> 4 10gb parts and the rest linux
[05:56:27] <DeadYak> my Haiku box is sitting in KDL right now in case Axel wants any more info on the latest deadlock
[05:56:36] <umccullough_x> nice
[05:56:40] <aljen> hehe
[05:56:56] <DeadYak> well, I can't get anything else useful accomplished without that bug being fixed :)
[05:57:07] <DeadYak> so I may as well
[05:57:48] <umccullough_x> a student that wants to implement pagefile eh?
[05:58:07] <DeadYak> yep
[05:58:17] <umccullough_x> that would be nice
[05:58:25] <DeadYak> yep yep
[05:58:30] <umccullough_x> then maybe haiku would boot on less than 64mb even
[05:58:42] <DeadYak> quite possibly :)
[05:59:07] <DeadYak> one of these days after I've recovered from tax season I still intend to send a BeBox to either mmu_man or Axel so they can port it to that :)
[06:00:37] <stpere> oh! it wasn't byte but kilos!
[06:00:44] <stpere> 248 k shaved :)
[06:00:51] <DeadYak> nice :)
[06:01:08] <umccullough_x> wow
[06:01:20] <umccullough_x> that's pretty significant actually
[06:01:24] <stpere> from kernel and bootload and anything that used the bootsplash
[06:01:36] <stpere> that's the total
[06:01:45] <umccullough_x> wait, are we talking disk or memory?
[06:02:32] <stpere> disk
[06:02:35] <stpere> :-\
[06:02:36] <aljen> nice :)
[06:02:37] <umccullough_x> :)
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[06:03:14] <umccullough_x> time to reboot
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[06:04:07] <stpere> images.h went from nearly one MB to 360K
[06:04:23] <aljen> stpere: good work :)
[06:04:41] <stpere> thx
[06:04:57] <stpere> there is some more polishing that could be done, but it's ok for an alpha I guess :)
[06:05:26] <aljen> hehe :)
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[06:08:04] <aljen> stpere: you could save memory too if you add void *splash_data to kernel_args, malloc and set pointer to it and from kernel boot_splash just map that pointer to splash data and use it it will save kernel_x86 size too
[06:08:06] <umccullough_h> ok, so how do i tell for sure whether this is VESA graphics or not?
[06:08:09] <aljen> :)
[06:08:39] <DeadYak> umccullough_h: no on the fly resolution switching? :)
[06:08:51] <umccullough_h> no
[06:09:14] <umccullough_h> but /dev/graphics shows the intel_extreme driver loaded
[06:09:42] <umccullough_h> so, can that happen if the accelerant doesn't provide support for it also?
[06:09:53] <umccullough_h> i wonder if the i845 isn't finished enough
[06:10:11] <umccullough_h> things are quite fast either way...
[06:11:58] <stpere> what is kernel_args? some common resources for the kernel?
[06:12:21] <umccullough_h> DeadYak think there's something useful in the syslog maybe?
[06:12:22] <stpere> will that pointer be accessible from within boot_splash.cpp?
[06:12:42] <stpere> if so, it would be perfect..
[06:12:53] <aljen> kernel_args is struct filled with parts of kernel elf, some other data and its the only one thing passed from bootloader to kernel
[06:13:12] <stpere> ok
[06:13:25] <aljen> so if you load data from bootloader you can pass it to kernel using kernel_args
[06:13:39] <stpere> cool
[06:13:51] <umccullough_h> DeadYak think Haiku would boot with the vesa driver missing entirely?
[06:17:33] <DeadYak> no idea
[06:17:42] <DeadYak> gimme a few minutes, logging a ton of stack traces from the kdebugger
[06:17:47] <DeadYak> seems Ingo decided sleep was overrated
[06:27:03] <DeadYak> and now time to pray Trac doesn't have some size limit on a post
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[06:28:02] <DeadYak> yay
[06:31:49] <DHowett> umccullough_h: Doesn't seem to.
[06:33:48] <DHowett> umccullough_h: Stuck at the rocketship with no vesa or vesa.accelerant :)
[06:33:48] <DeadYak> umccullough_h: ok...offhand I'm thinking that if it has an accelerant, it will probably boot...the vesa stub driver isn't used for the early boot loader stuff so it's not relevant there
[06:34:25] <DeadYak> DHowett: do you have supported graphics without vesa?
[06:34:34] <DeadYak> err
[06:34:37] <DeadYak> lemme word that better
[06:34:44] <DeadYak> do you have a supported graphics card? :)
[06:34:46] <DHowett> This is in qemu.. so no :P
[06:34:53] <DeadYak> then yeah, it won't boot without it :P
[06:34:56] <DHowett> qemu supports (offhand) a cirrus logic card.
[06:35:08] <DHowett> I was attempting to test umccullough_h's question :P
[06:35:09] <DeadYak> it should boot without it if you have a chip that's supported by an accelerant
[06:35:18] <DeadYak> DHowett: right, but he has an intel extreme
[06:35:19] <DeadYak> which does have a driver
[06:35:20] <DHowett> oh :P
[06:35:48] <DeadYak> in theory
[06:36:05] <DeadYak> umccullough_h: one way you might be able to find out...
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[06:37:36] <stpere> morning absabs
[06:37:57] <absabs> hello stpere
[06:38:02] <absabs> morning
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[06:38:27] <DeadYak> hiya absabs :)
[06:38:42] <absabs> hi DeakYak
[06:38:57] <aljen> hey :)
[06:39:02] <stpere> oohh, a castle burned down in Quebec
[06:39:11] <absabs> hi aljen
[06:39:14] <DeadYak> didn't know they had castles in Quebec...
[06:39:26] <stpere> it was one build by the english regime
[06:39:30] <DeadYak> ahh
[06:39:31] <stpere> built*
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[06:42:15] <The_Ringmaster> is yahoo.com down?
[06:42:40] <The_Ringmaster> nvm
[06:42:45] <absabs> nop
[06:42:54] <absabs> I can visit it here
[06:43:08] <The_Ringmaster> IE8 has a major bug then
[06:43:26] <stpere> absabs: are you from .cn?
[06:43:33] <absabs> long time no using IE8
[06:43:38] <absabs> stpere,yes
[06:44:02] <stpere> can you access radio-canada.ca?
[06:44:04] <stpere> :)
[06:44:12] <absabs> let me test it
[06:44:13] <DHowett> I would've been more surprised to find out it DIDN'T have a bug of some sort ...
[06:44:14] <stpere> looks like it's blocked for you guys
[06:44:19] <Teknomancer> anyone tried Safari on Windows ?
[06:44:25] <stpere> I'm curious to know if it's true
[06:44:40] <The_Ringmaster> yeah
[06:44:43] <The_Ringmaster> sucks
[06:45:22] <The_Ringmaster> very slow to start on cold start-up
[06:45:23] <Teknomancer> wasn't slow but used a heck load of RAM
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[06:46:01] <absabs> stpere seems blocked by the "GFW"
[06:46:11] <absabs> we called it gong fu wang
[06:46:12] <absabs> :D
[06:46:19] <absabs> hahaa
[06:46:26] <DeadYak> absabs: what does that translate to?
[06:46:36] <DeadYak> I'm assuming you're referring to the great firewall :)
[06:46:58] <Teknomancer> Citibank's online banking is the biggest piece of crap i've ever seen
[06:47:14] <stpere> :)
[06:47:14] <absabs> DeadYak, we called it just for fun
[06:47:17] <Teknomancer> it won't let me keep any other tabs , and i must type in my enormously long password using an onscreen keyboard :(
[06:47:20] <Teknomancer> SHITTYbank
[06:47:22] <DeadYak> ablyss: ah
[06:47:25] <DeadYak> err
[06:47:27] <DeadYak> absabs: ah
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[06:48:18] <absabs> but the GFW does not affect me
[06:48:46] <ozy`> Teknomancer: sheesh, what piece of brain damage inspired that? O_o
[06:49:31] <absabs> tor or sth. else is used to pass through the *BULLXHIT* GFW
[06:49:34] <absabs> :P
[06:49:45] <DeadYak> absabs: I'm surprised they don't firewall tor
[06:49:52] <Teknomancer> and my username is my 16-digit card number :/
[06:49:57] <Teknomancer> crap
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[06:50:00] <absabs> perhaps they can't
[06:50:02] <absabs> hahaa
[06:50:17] <DeadYak> absabs: perhaps, though I thought the entry nodes were less of a problem than the exit points
[06:50:44] <absabs> yep
[06:50:45] <Teknomancer> haha it keeps getting worse, each time the layout of the onscreen keyboard changes
[06:50:56] <Teknomancer> "For your protection you have been logged off. Please close all your active windows and try login again."
[06:51:07] <Teknomancer> damn it I've closed every other tba
[06:51:08] <Teknomancer> tab
[06:51:13] * DeadYak is suddenly glad he has no citibank account
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[06:51:28] <Teknomancer> it is mandatory for me :/  i'd have never wanted one
[06:51:29] <absabs> hehe
[06:51:45] <Teknomancer> i have this sinking feeling it works only in IE :(
[06:51:46] <Teknomancer> oh man
[06:52:44] <ozy`> watch it flag you as an evil hacker because you use another browser
[06:52:48] <absabs> stpere, are you from Canda
[06:53:02] <absabs> Canada
[06:53:11] <Teknomancer> " 	We are currently unable to service your request. Please try again later."
[06:53:30] <Teknomancer> i think they have a random database of quotes to deny access
[06:53:44] <ozy`> awesome
[06:53:45] <stpere> yup
[06:54:05] <Teknomancer> to hell with this,  will have to deal with it someother time
[06:54:11] <The_Ringmaster> "you use a non-proprietary browser, watch for land-mines"
[06:54:36] <DeadYak> there are days where I really miss Net+'s error messages
[06:54:55] <The_Ringmaster> what were they like?
[06:54:58] <DeadYak> one moment...
[06:55:17] <DeadYak> The_Ringmaster: http://8325.org/haiku/
[06:55:29] <DeadYak> they're the reason Haiku's named what it is
[06:55:49] <The_Ringmaster> nice
[06:57:20] <The_Ringmaster> does netpositive run on haiku?
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[07:00:28] <Teknomancer> netpositive was fun :)
[07:01:09] <The_Ringmaster> i bet
[07:01:28] <Teknomancer> was the best for browsing documentation like bebook
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[07:12:57] <cshaiku> they show BSG yet tonite?
[07:13:02] <cshaiku> anyone, anyone, beuller?
[07:13:53] <cshaiku> if you don't already have the torrent: http://www.mininova.org/get/1297677
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[07:16:56] <aroman> !! new bsg tonight??
[07:17:28] * aroman is having troubles clicking and typing... :D
[07:18:00] <cshaiku> yes, indeed
[07:18:06] <cshaiku> 50mins ago, even
[07:18:40] <cshaiku> my box is upping that torrent at about 400k/s currently
[07:18:49] <cshaiku> K rather
[07:18:52] <geist> yep. good stuff
[07:18:57] <aroman> cshaiku: any way to channel that directly to my box? :P hehehe
[07:19:10] <cshaiku> no, but if you grab that torrent, you'll get it
[07:19:30] <aroman> gaining speed :)
[07:19:39] <aroman> good episode?
[07:19:52] <Teknomancer> what's BSG ?
[07:19:55] <geist> sure
[07:20:02] <cshaiku> Battlestar Galactica
[07:20:03] <aroman> Teknomancer: Battlestar Galactica
[07:20:10] <Teknomancer> hm, .. ok
[07:20:12] <cshaiku> only the BEST sci-fi on tv
[07:20:14] <cshaiku> no joke
[07:20:32] <geist> for reals
[07:20:39] <aroman> I'd challenge the sci-fi part :P not "classical" sci-fi but it is one of the best :)
[07:21:17] <geist> it's definitely less about the tech and special effects
[07:21:37] <cshaiku> in a huge way, yes, at the same time, the effects to pull off that sense of reality is astounding
[07:22:11] <cshaiku> you get a real sense of what is happening in any battle, scene, event, disaster, struggle, etc, without it seeming like the effects are the only cool thing you're seeing
[07:22:22] <aroman> oh yeah... it's definitely got awesome cgi
[07:23:06] <The_Ringmaster> thought that show was cancelled?
[07:23:19] <cshaiku> no, they stated that season four is the last one, intentionally
[07:23:33] <cshaiku> and like any other show recently, it too was affected by the WGA strike
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[07:24:40] * aroman doesn't like BIND
[07:25:19] <geist> yeah
[07:25:26] <geist> been like 400 days since the end of S3
[07:26:33] <aroman> looks like I'll be watching it in half an hour or so...
[07:26:36] <aroman> :D
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[07:28:10] <geist> man, speaking of. the internt is really slow now
[07:28:19] <geist> everyone is nailing the torrent
[07:28:41] <cshaiku> sorry, sorry... I'm slowing down the internet again
[07:28:49] * cshaiku removes a half dozen popular torrents
[07:29:04] <cshaiku> better?
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[07:48:12] <stpere> shaved an other 248 KB
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[07:48:54] <stpere> aljen: thanks for your hints
[07:53:27] <aljen> stpere: np :)
[07:54:33] <stpere> now I wonder how I can free the pointer allocated in the loader
[07:55:04] <stpere> it tells me "free failed" when I try to free it from the kernel boot_splash.cpp
[07:58:03] <aljen> as i remember vm_free_kernel_args isnt called at all ;/
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[07:58:26] <stpere> oh
[07:58:38] <stpere> well, it's ok for now
[07:59:24] <aljen> src/system/kernel/main.c 237: if (0) { vm_free_kernel_args(&sKernelArgs); }
[08:02:51] <stpere> thx
[08:11:40] <stpere> I will send the patch tomorrow, too tired for now, will probably make a mistake..
[08:11:42] <stpere> night
[08:11:58] <aljen> gnight
[08:11:59] <aljen> :)
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[10:04:34] * JonathanThompson meows upside-down into the channel
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[10:15:45] <cshaiku> swoem?
[10:15:54] <cshaiku> rather...
[10:15:59] <cshaiku> smoaw
[10:16:01] <cshaiku> :)
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[10:18:23] <cshaiku> funny enough, they're phonetically close
[10:18:24] <cshaiku> weird
[10:23:16] <ddew|bofh> g'morning ladies
[10:25:17] <cshaiku> yo
[10:26:07] <ddew|bofh> ah, this is the perfect way to spend a saturday. johnny cash on the stereo, a pot of strong coffee and hours of hackery ahead of me :)
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[10:29:44] <cshaiku> lucky you, I have another 8.5 hours to go on day 1 of a 3day weekend
[10:29:51] <cshaiku> 12 hour shifts 4tw
[10:32:06] <ddew|bofh> 3 day weekends doesn't suck :)
[10:32:24] <ddew|bofh> only reason i have limitless hours to spend on nothing is because of my retirement
[10:33:27] <cps1966> oh your retired too
[10:33:48] <ddew|bofh> yeah, but it's not as exciting as it should be :)
[10:36:53] <cshaiku> I don't think you understand what I meant, ddew|bofh, I am working 3 x 12 hour shifts
[10:36:56] <cshaiku> sadly
[10:37:17] <ddew|bofh> ouch, three day weekend means something entirely different here
[10:37:29] <cps1966> i did my time
[10:37:47] <cps1966> your turn and i dont feel sorry for you
[10:38:06] <cshaiku> its all good, generally its pretty easy at work
[10:38:27] <cshaiku> except in the morning when we get stupid calls from stupid people. :P
[10:38:39] <ddew|bofh> heh, working helldesk?
[10:39:09] <cshaiku> noc
[10:40:30] <ddew|bofh> nice, those places is how i've always wanted my house of the future to be :P
[10:40:48] <ddew|bofh> tons of important looking gear and huge screens
[10:42:10] <cshaiku> oh yeah
[10:42:19] <cshaiku> 2000 servers in one of our rooms
[10:42:31] <ddew|bofh> that's proper geek porn :)
[10:45:22] <cshaiku> its pretty rad here, indeed
[10:45:35] <cshaiku> what I like most though is how much I've learnt about linux
[10:45:49] <cshaiku> I thought I was comfortable before starting here, I had no idea.
[10:45:50] <cps1966> must be M4 based
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[11:15:44] <aroman> ugh... going to sleep
[11:15:47] <aroman> |-)
[11:15:52] <aroman> night all
[11:15:57] <ddew|bofh> nn
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[11:17:56] <tqh> good morning :)
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[11:18:47] <ddew|bofh> moin
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[11:27:29] <Teknomancer> afternoon
[11:34:29] <Ingenu> morning
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[11:50:27] * tqh curses Firefox under Linux
[11:50:46] <cps1966> use seamonkey
[11:51:57] <tqh> is it less annoying, for instance clicking beside a link always takes you somewhere, and it's not where you want to go.
[11:52:46] <cps1966> i've never got into firefox so i dont know what your talking about
[11:54:04] <tqh> ah
[11:54:39] <cps1966> seamonkey is more like old mozilla full featued but only a few MB more
[11:56:33] <tqh> yes I know. I'm one of the port-maintainer for Firefox under BeOS/Haiku :)
[11:59:30] <cps1966> konqueror is better than both to me
[12:01:08] <tqh> only tested Safari, does Konqueror have different AA? I don't like the Mac way of AA.
[12:01:28] <cps1966> AA  ??
[12:01:56] <tqh> anitaliasing
[12:02:21] <tqh> installing now to check out.
[12:02:53] <cps1966> that might take lots of depends though
[12:03:50] <tqh> used apt-get so it's already installed.
[12:07:18] <cps1966> my konq may not be full version i'm using devel version
[12:08:05] <tqh> the one kubuntu installed sucked. Might be some crappy plugin though.
[12:08:47] <cps1966> yeah ubuntus version does suck
[12:09:31] <tqh> I need to change distro sometime.
[12:09:44] <cps1966> dont use plugins as well as some others
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[12:10:50] * tqh starts hacking on rapidxml (faster, faster)
[12:10:59] <cps1966> i'm using mandriva cooker atm
[12:11:16] <tqh> ah
[12:11:40] <leszek> hi
[12:12:29] <cps1966> this install is 3 months old now needs to be freshened up soon
[12:13:48] <cps1966> if you have good connection i'd do a net install
[12:15:36] <tqh> I usually check out a live-cd to test around to decide if it's acceptable.
[12:15:55] <ddew|bofh> archlinux ftw
[12:15:58] <cps1966> well live cd is last they do
[12:17:32] <tqh> openwrt is the only one I like yet :)
[12:20:15] <cps1966> ever tried kororaa
[12:21:22] <tqh> nope, havn't heard of it
[12:21:38] <ddew|bofh> kororaa is a mess
[12:21:44] <cps1966> ftp://distrib-coffee.ipsl.jussieu.fr/pub/linux/kororaa
[12:22:01] <ddew|bofh> avoid that, it's a binary dist of gentoo
[12:22:14] <ddew|bofh> and it's been discontinued :D
[12:22:19] <leszek> :D
[12:22:30] <leszek> sabayon is much nicer
[12:22:41] <cps1966> sabayon is too
[12:22:51] <ddew|bofh> and it's also crap
[12:23:02] <ddew|bofh> everything related to gentoo should be avoided
[12:23:02] <leszek> the best of all is zeVenOS ^^ :P
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[12:23:13] <ddew|bofh> hell, any source-based distro is more work than it's worth
[12:23:30] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC
[12:23:56] <cps1966> pclinux aint to bad
[12:24:11] <tqh> ah, used gentoo before and you learned lots, quite good docs.
[12:24:35] <tqh> pclinux is actually one of the best I've tried.
[12:24:50] <ddew|bofh> gentoo is a great tool for _learning_ linux, but if you're like me and like to do actual work with your computer you'll want another distro :)
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[12:24:55] <cps1966> thats texstars baby
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[12:25:24] <tqh> also used some distro for E17 which was quite nice.
[12:25:38] <cps1966> thats a red hat distro that uses apt
[12:25:41] <ddew|bofh> i'm using archlinux because of it's bare-bonedness but i can also recommend ubuntu horny hedgehog
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[12:26:05] <tqh> lol
[12:26:21] <cps1966> thats old
[12:26:37] <ddew|bofh> which one's old?
[12:26:57] <cps1966> hardy is the one i have
[12:27:07] <ddew|bofh> it's not even released yet
[12:27:15] <cps1966> hoary hedgehog
[12:27:40] <cps1966> well you have to know how to get it then
[12:28:08] <cps1966> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/current/
[12:28:16] <ddew|bofh> the one i'm talking about is hardy heron, 8.04 and it's to be released in roughly 20 days
[12:28:45] <cps1966> thats the one i just posted
[12:28:57] <cps1966> daily build
[12:29:21] <ddew|bofh> i know, but you mentioned hardy so i figured i'd clarify which one i was referring to
[12:29:24] <tqh> I ain't getting any new KDE based distro.
[12:29:25] <cps1966> they have live cd also
[12:29:34] <ddew|bofh> ubuntu's gnome
[12:29:53] <ddew|bofh> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/beta
[12:30:03] <cps1966> oh its still kde3 but there is a kde4 release also
[12:30:17] <tqh> kde3 > kde4 any time :)
[12:30:42] <cps1966> next release will be kde4
[12:31:03] *** daste has quit IRC
[12:31:29] <tqh> I'm hoping that soon I can skip all of them :)
[12:31:56] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i'm also waiting for haiku to usable as a day to day os :)
[12:31:57] <cps1966> you can get server and put what you want
[12:32:00] <Ingenu> go go Xfce !
[12:33:36] <tqh> xfce is probably what I'll use next time I switch.
[12:34:26] <cps1966> thats a feature i like about konq just use up arrow to go up level on sites
[12:36:06] <Ingenu> like the BeOS file browser ?
[12:36:17] <Ingenu> I liked the fact that it could be controlled solely on keyboard
[12:36:41] <cps1966> yup
[12:36:42] <leszek> IceWM ich much faster then XFCE
[12:37:05] <leszek> but KDE 3 has sliding tabs xD
[12:37:08] <Ingenu> one of the really annoying things in windows is that after all those years there's still NO new folder shortcut
[12:37:43] <ozy`> MS employees don't use windows, I hear
[12:38:09] <cps1966> yeah thats true
[12:38:45] <cps1966> its not good devel platform
[12:39:01] <Ingenu> might have been true at a time but I don't think it's true anymore
[12:39:06] <ddew|bofh> it is? wow, someone should tell the people i know at ms that :)
[12:39:06] <Ingenu> they have the best IDE ever
[12:39:13] <Ingenu> (Visual Studio 7+)
[12:39:16] <ddew|bofh> they use vista and 2008 primarily
[12:39:26] <tqh> we have a centrally controlled windows xp platform at work.
[12:39:50] <tqh> I installed linux and run the platform in vmware instead. They'll never know :)
[12:39:57] <Ingenu> if MS had balls Vista would be x64 only and we would all move to a better world ;p
[12:40:20] <ddew|bofh> linux is a fun platform but it's way too fragmented and inconsistent for my taste
[12:40:31] <Ingenu> (not like anyone would want to run Vista on old hardware, so no reason to make a 32bit OS for 64bit processors)
[12:40:38] <leszek> if MS had balls they would quit Vista , support XP and develop a totally rewritten windows 7
[12:40:58] <Ingenu> Windows 7 next year
[12:41:01] <Ingenu> said Bill
[12:41:02] <leszek> yep
[12:41:09] <ddew|bofh> actually running a 32-bit os on a 64-bit chip makes perfect sense
[12:41:29] <Ingenu> sure as does running a 16bit OS on a 32bit chip...
[12:41:32] <ddew|bofh> compatibility raisins
[12:41:41] <Ingenu> you just don't use the additional registers and all
[12:41:52] <Ingenu> no worries, just making something expensive a bit more useless
[12:41:52] <ozy`> Ingenu: and when was "longhorn" originally supposed to come out?
[12:42:06] <leszek> 2004
[12:42:09] <Ingenu> no clue, but Vista is not Longhorn
[12:42:15] <Ingenu> (ie feature wise)
[12:42:18] <leszek> thats true
[12:42:31] <ddew|bofh> longhorn was reset and they started over in 2005
[12:42:33] <ozy`> yeah it's maybe the bottom 15%
[12:42:36] <ozy`> heh
[12:42:46] <ddew|bofh> so in reality vista was in development for about 2 years
[12:43:05] <Ingenu> wasn't longhorn supposed to be a brand new OS from scratch ? did they make the same promess for Windows 7 ?
[12:43:26] <ozy`> Ingenu: according to some (unsubstantiated) rumors, yes, they just did
[12:43:29] <ddew|bofh> seven was always slated to be the "new" os, longhorn was a stop in between
[12:43:33] <ddew|bofh> think xp r2
[12:43:45] <leszek> longhorn was rocking 2004: http://youtube.com/watch?v=b9ifQvQCO7Y&fmt=18
[12:43:59] <Ingenu> I don't have any problem with Vista x64, but I recon it's far from being what was originaly sold
[12:44:08] <ddew|bofh> lezyeah, that's a macromedia presentation
[12:44:18] <ddew|bofh> longhorn was never even close to that
[12:44:55] <leszek> but it looks cool :D
[12:45:19] <ddew|bofh> indeed it does :)
[12:45:34] <cps1966> looks aint everything
[12:46:00] <ddew|bofh> if you look at presentations of aero in ~2004 you'll see that it's strikingly similar to how vista looks
[12:46:57] <Ingenu> doesn't look too different from Vista really
[12:47:11] <leszek> windows 7 will be a vista r2 I think, if they really want to release it next year
[12:47:30] <Ingenu> depends how long it's been in the making
[12:47:41] <Ingenu> depends how many teams MS has to dedicate to its OS
[12:47:46] <ddew|bofh> they've switched managment of the os groups as well
[12:48:03] <ddew|bofh> now the guy behind office 2k7 is in charge of seven, which bodes well
[12:48:10] <cps1966> i heard it will be modular
[12:48:21] <ddew|bofh> he's known for keeping deadlines :)
[12:48:25] <Ingenu> I like Office 2k7 (bought it), but I know people who really really don't like it
[12:48:48] <Ingenu> if it could not crash because of drivers...
[12:48:51] <Ingenu> that'd be something
[12:48:52] <ddew|bofh> 2k7 is very different, i think it's excellent. the live previews are great
[12:49:20] <Ingenu> 2k7 ?
[12:49:27] <cps1966> not as good as OOo
[12:49:29] <Ingenu> (Windows ? Office ?)
[12:49:37] <ddew|bofh> office 2k7
[12:49:48] <ddew|bofh> last i checked there's no windows 2007 :)
[12:50:13] <Ingenu> rly ? I'm never too careful about server versions, so there might have been one
[12:50:26] <Ingenu> think there's a 2k3 & 2k8 only though
[12:50:31] <ddew|bofh> yup
[12:50:55] <Ingenu> at least we are using NT now
[12:51:08] <Ingenu> that's a good step forward, but we're still far from BeOS
[12:51:19] <Ingenu> (yes I'm aware it did less, but it performed better :p)
[12:51:49] <cps1966> anything is better than vista
[12:51:50] <ddew|bofh> nt as well as linux has one huge problem, they're designed to do many things
[12:51:52] * cshaiku pokes Ingenu
[12:51:59] <ozy`> cps1966: windows ME?
[12:52:01] <Ingenu> I prefer a simple, effective and elegant OS to a huge do-it-all-wrong thingy
[12:52:02] <ddew|bofh> beos was designed to do one thing and do it well, the desktop
[12:52:13] <cps1966> me was better even
[12:52:28] <Ingenu> Linux is really tailored to servers
[12:52:45] <ddew|bofh> indeed, it's great for crunching bumbers
[12:52:47] <Ingenu> Windows tries to be a Desktop OS, and somewhat succeed
[12:53:09] <Ingenu> will Haiku or SkyOS save the world ?
[12:53:26] <ddew|bofh> hopefully haiku, i think it's a more elegant os :)
[12:53:35] <ddew|bofh> skyos feels bloated somehow
[12:53:50] <Ingenu> not tried SkyOS in years
[12:53:51] <cshaiku> skyos seems heavy in the interface
[12:53:59] <Ingenu> think it was Beta 4 or 5
[12:54:04] <cshaiku> I find all the extra padding and styling a little too much
[12:54:28] * cshaiku pokes Ingenu again
[12:54:29] <Ingenu> I keep reading the website, from what I read, it seems they really reworked pretty much everything ^^
[12:54:35] <ddew|bofh> i'm a member of their beta-program. it's very good considering it's an os written by just one person
[12:54:52] <Ingenu> full time ?
[12:54:55] <cshaiku> ddew|bofh: one person that we know of... its been rumoured there's a team who are merely acting as one person
[12:55:05] <cshaiku> there's no way in hell its one developer all this time
[12:55:31] <cshaiku> not even the great axeld could write as fast as the skyos dev
[12:55:38] <ddew|bofh> cshaiku: of course not, there's always people helping out. but the core team has to be robert
[12:55:43] <Ingenu> ever since I upgrdaded to SP1 I lost the languages pack in Windows Update
[12:56:18] <Ingenu> single head is usualy better to get things done quickly
[12:56:19] <cps1966> huh i lost tv tuner
[12:56:22] <cshaiku> the core team publically is Robert, but logically it makes sense that he accepts comits from various devs and posts as him
[12:57:02] <cshaiku> Ingenu: do I have to throw trout at you?
[12:57:09] <cps1966> maybe he has bot setup to do heavy lifting
[12:57:19] <ddew|bofh> or maybe he does the "real" work and others help him out updating the various userland bits
[12:57:51] <cshaiku> that's more likely, ddew|bofh
[12:58:31] <ddew|bofh> one person doing kernel work and designing apis isn't unrealistic
[12:59:17] <cshaiku> too true, my point was given the insane amount of work that went into skyos, at one time there was like a new set of stuff every couple of days, apparently written from scratch
[12:59:27] <cshaiku> that, it seemed almost superhuman
[12:59:38] <tqh> cshaiku: wb :)
[12:59:46] <cshaiku> thx man!
[13:00:11] <ddew|bofh> who says it was written in a few days? he could've been working on it for months before entering it into the head branch
[13:00:48] <cshaiku> I didnt' say it was written entirely in a few days
[13:00:59] <ddew|bofh> i know
[13:01:08] <Ingenu> monday I'm moving from Paris (well close by) to Oslo for my new job
[13:01:10] <Ingenu> it's scary
[13:01:13] <cshaiku> I said, every few days, there was new stuff published at his site. lots.. continously
[13:01:31] <cshaiku> Ingenu: good luck!
[13:01:39] <tqh> Oslo is a nice city, expensive though.
[13:01:40] <Ingenu> any other interesting website about haiku besides the official one ?
[13:01:53] <ddew|bofh> having weeks where lots of commits coming in seemingly out of the blue isn't unheard of
[13:02:03] <Ingenu> well I got twice my previous salary, so I should still have a better life there ;)
[13:02:09] <cshaiku> but you admit too that its pretty incredible
[13:02:19] <cshaiku> Ingenu: yes, haikunews.org :P :P :
[13:02:26] <cshaiku> P (dammit.. enter key)
[13:02:29] <ddew|bofh> incredible? yes doubtful? hardly
[13:02:47] <cshaiku> I concede that the two are not mutually exclusive. :P
[13:02:49] <tqh> Ingenu: nice
[13:02:58] <ddew|bofh> hehe
[13:03:23] <cshaiku> now, if only we can jedi convince Robert to switch to Haiku. :)
[13:03:30] <ddew|bofh> my brain works in a similar way where i have weeks when the floodgates just open and tons of stuff just gets done
[13:03:31] <cshaiku> that would rock!
[13:03:46] <Ingenu> ddew|bofh, sounds like me
[13:04:00] <cshaiku> Ingenu: hi btw.
[13:04:05] <Ingenu> I consider myself dead most of the time, and from time to time, it's like I wake up have lots of good ideas and do lots of stuff
[13:04:12] <ddew|bofh> i've had sessions where i've worked hard for 3 days straight
[13:04:13] <cps1966> thats called procrastination
[13:04:14] <Ingenu> too bad I can't manage to keep that up all year long
[13:04:46] <cshaiku> ddew|bofh: I think everyone who is inspired by their passions gets this way often
[13:05:04] <Ingenu> haikunews.org is slooooowwwwww....
[13:05:05] <ddew|bofh> i'm blaming AS and way too much free time :)
[13:05:08] <cshaiku> 80% of the time though, we're simply recharging until we're inspired again
[13:05:15] <cshaiku> Aspergers Syndrome?
[13:05:19] <ddew|bofh> yup
[13:05:21] <cshaiku> you have?
[13:05:24] <ddew|bofh> indeed i do
[13:05:31] <cshaiku> I didn't know that...
[13:05:45] <cshaiku> I thought I might have had that a few years ago, not sure anymore
[13:05:54] <ddew|bofh> heh, you learn something new every day :)
[13:05:58] <cshaiku> indeed
[13:06:05] <ddew|bofh> AS isn't something fleeting, it's permanent
[13:06:08] <cshaiku> maybe most geeks have some form of it?
[13:06:21] <cshaiku> how does one get diagnosed properly?
[13:06:24] <cshaiku> doctor?
[13:06:46] <ddew|bofh> psychiatrists and psychologist do a bunch of tests
[13:07:08] <cshaiku> I've never had the (mis)pleasure of dealing with either
[13:07:15] <cshaiku> dunno if I want to really
[13:07:21] <Ingenu> bah everyone is just crazy and lost on a little rock in the middle of the infinite
[13:07:34] <cshaiku> Ingenu: do you see my text?
[13:08:05] <Ingenu> in the chan or elsewhere ?
[13:08:08] <cshaiku> lol
[13:08:12] <cshaiku> ok, nvmd
[13:08:21] <ddew|bofh> heh
[13:08:26] <cshaiku> sigh
[13:08:34] <cshaiku> Ingenu: do you know who this is?
[13:08:40] <cshaiku> I don't think he does, really.
[13:08:57] <Ingenu> who's who ?
[13:09:11] <cshaiku> ddew|bofh: please clue him in.. lol
[13:09:14] <ddew|bofh> the site's working fine here
[13:09:22] <Ingenu> I'm registered and logged on freenode (just checked)
[13:09:27] <ddew|bofh> cshaiku==chris simmons of haikunews fame
[13:09:35] <Ingenu> ah
[13:09:55] <cshaiku> I was trying to be subtle earlier, but wow, you kept missing all my pokes, the trout, and stuff! :P
[13:10:00] <cps1966> oh that guy
[13:10:01] <ddew|bofh> hehe
[13:10:05] <Ingenu> ah it's just slow to establish connection
[13:10:06] <cshaiku> I mean, how can you miss the trout???
[13:10:09] <Ingenu> once it's started it comes quickly
[13:10:27] <tqh> been a lot of olditmers showing up lately.
[13:10:44] <cshaiku> eh.. *takes out his teeth*.. what?? what did you say, sonny? eh?
[13:10:45] <tqh> itmers is code-speak for timers
[13:10:51] * cshaiku beats tqh with his cane
[13:11:01] <cps1966> even in beshare SDO showed his face
[13:11:04] * tqh says 'oooh aaahh'
[13:11:07] *** Zevs has joined #haiku
[13:11:32] <Ingenu> there are no old timers
[13:11:41] <cshaiku> we're all just dust in the wind
[13:11:42] <Ingenu> Haiku isn't even released yet, how could there be ? ;p
[13:11:44] <cps1966> i am
[13:11:59] <cshaiku> so, what was your old nick, cps1966 ?
[13:12:04] <cshaiku> on BeShare I mean
[13:12:08] <cps1966> geneo93
[13:12:13] <cshaiku> ah..
[13:12:20] <cshaiku> hey man, glad to see you again
[13:12:23] <cps1966> 2000
[13:12:28] * tqh used decaf a long time ago.
[13:12:36] <cshaiku> yeah, I know you already, tqh
[13:12:39] <cshaiku> :P~
[13:12:54] <cshaiku> dammit, a server just fell over, btw
[13:12:55] <cps1966> yeah that jogs my memory
[13:12:56] <cshaiku> brb I mean
[13:13:09] <cshaiku> my god, even mis typing wrong acronyms
[13:13:15] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku
[13:13:16] <cps1966> anyone seen zippy as of late
[13:13:19] <Ingenu> I have not changed my nickname since about 1999
[13:13:28] <Ingenu> makes thing easier
[13:13:44] <Ingenu> sometimes there are even people popping in #OpenGL thanking me for my help a year or so ago
[13:13:48] <cps1966> well i use kane in beshare now
[13:14:03] <Ingenu> I don't even remember them ^^ but hey I wouldn't be in that chan if it wasn't to help people
[13:14:28] <cshaiku> there used to be a kane in BeShare
[13:14:29] <Ingenu> I used ozone and unizone, but I'm only on #Haiku now
[13:14:36] <ddew|bofh> people still use beshare?
[13:14:41] <Ingenu> some
[13:14:42] <cshaiku> some people do
[13:14:53] <cshaiku> from what I've heard. I've dropped into beshare over the years too
[13:14:53] <cps1966> i do all the time with unizone
[13:15:02] <tqh> I have crappy network in BeOS, so only very occasionally.
[13:15:03] <cshaiku> cshaiku.com runs a beshare server now, as well
[13:15:16] <ddew|bofh> might pop by :)
[13:15:25] <cshaiku> well, no one is there quite yet
[13:15:31] <cps1966> tgh i use unizone in linux
[13:15:39] <cshaiku> but since I have a colo, might as well run it in case its needed
[13:15:51] <ddew|bofh> there should be an official beshare server for haiku
[13:16:24] <cps1966> well there are only two servers left so pick one
[13:16:43] <tqh> cps1966: I think it would decrease my productivity even further :)
[13:16:49] <ddew|bofh> heh
[13:17:59] <cps1966> when your retired you dont need to meet deadlines anymore
[13:18:11] <cps1966> heh
[13:18:18] <cshaiku> beshare.tycomsystems.com seems to be the most populated server presently
[13:19:43] <Ingenu> it has been for years now
[13:19:57] <Ingenu> I think since the fall of the previous one back in 2000/2001
[13:20:05] <cshaiku> yeah, sounds about right
[13:20:08] <cps1966> at least 4-5 yrs at least
[13:20:25] <cshaiku> man, remember getting files this way, before Napster even?
[13:20:46] <cps1966> well about napster time
[13:20:52] <cshaiku> now, I get like, 5+ GB per day in stuff using torrents
[13:21:06] <cps1966> june 2000 was start of beshare
[13:21:07] <cshaiku> back in beshare days, I had a whopping 20GB drive!
[13:21:45] <cps1966> huh i has 13 GB
[13:22:16] <cps1966> now 1.9 TB
[13:22:52] <cps1966> beshare would go to its knees if i shared all my files
[13:23:34] <cshaiku> you collect tv shows at all?
[13:23:53] <cps1966> well i have a few british shows
[13:24:12] <cps1966> life on mars is good
[13:24:38] <cps1966> are you being served is another
[13:24:41] <cshaiku> what's your email, cps1966 ?
[13:24:58] <cps1966> cps1966 at yahoo dot com
[13:26:07] <cshaiku> check your email
[13:27:44] <cps1966> hey have you ever seen life on mars
[13:27:55] <cps1966> good cop show
[13:27:56] <cshaiku> heard of it
[13:28:11] <cshaiku> I have a rather large list to get first, before I search out new stuff
[13:28:37] <cps1966> i think i have 5 seasons of it
[13:29:12] <cps1966> then it changed to ashes to sahes
[13:29:32] <cps1966> was lost on this week i missed it
[13:29:41] <cshaiku> no, not till 24th
[13:30:12] <cps1966> so how are things in cananda
[13:31:43] <cshaiku> pretty good in fact
[13:31:52] <cshaiku> Alberta enconomy is booming
[13:32:01] <cshaiku> economy, even
[13:32:03] <cps1966> its dead here
[13:32:07] <cshaiku> where you at?
[13:32:12] <cps1966> ohio
[13:32:22] <cps1966> us of a
[13:32:24] <cshaiku> you live anywhere close to Bryan Varner?
[13:32:37] <cshaiku> I seem to remember he moved there?
[13:32:40] <cps1966> bout 100 miles from there
[13:33:08] <cps1966> he lives in indy
[13:33:14] <cps1966> indiana
[13:33:50] <cps1966> or close to it seems after he got married he lost us here
[13:34:21] <cshaiku> ah, yeah, I"m afraid of the same thing happening to me
[13:34:31] <cshaiku> I'm getting married in a few years, we haven't set a date yet
[13:34:48] <cps1966> old school mate
[13:35:00] <cshaiku> I'm old school?
[13:35:13] <cps1966> no the girl
[13:35:33] <cps1966> someone you knew before
[13:35:39] <cshaiku> oh.. no no
[13:35:50] <cshaiku> she's an ex, whom I've re-hooked up with
[13:36:07] <cps1966> ex as in years ago
[13:36:12] <cshaiku> yeah
[13:36:16] <cps1966> oic
[13:36:23] <cshaiku> its a bit complicated
[13:36:29] <cshaiku> which is good.. :P
[13:36:58] <cps1966> well i and my son live here and ex and daughter live in indiana
[13:37:50] <cps1966> she will graduate in may this year , how time flys
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[13:41:13] <cps1966> what was the last episode about i cant remember <lost
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[13:42:58] <cshaiku> After Sayid encounters Michael, the story of how Ben's spy got to the freighter is finally revealed. Back at Locke's camp, Ben sends his daughter, Alex, to a safer place so that she may survive an approaching attack.
[13:43:24] <cshaiku> http://www.tv.com/lost/meet-kevin-johnson/episode/1148351/summary.html
[13:43:25] <tqh> and Mulder got beamed up.
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[13:43:52] <cps1966> oh yeah xfiles
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[13:45:53] <cps1966> haven't seen diana on beshare for a long time now
[13:46:48] <cshaiku> wasn't that your daughter?
[13:47:29] <cps1966> no zathros wife
[13:48:52] <cps1966> i think she used cheerchickabe my daughter and yugioh was my son
[13:50:57] <cps1966> loon tunes in once in a great while
[13:51:08] <cshaiku> gods, haven't seen him in ages
[13:52:58] <cps1966> minox must have reset server last week
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[13:54:21] <Stargater> moin
[13:55:05] <cps1966> cshaiku:  makes me think of that crazy guy form kiss
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[13:59:25] <cps1966> time for nap cyasl8r
[13:59:32] <cshaiku> laters
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[14:15:06] <leszek> re
[14:15:49] <burfi> BMW ftw!
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[14:22:22] <mmadia> so fricking stupid... glib 2.1.4.6 wants pkg-config,  pkg-config comes with glib 1.2.10
[14:27:09] <burfi> it is statically linked in though, doesn't increase binary by much
[14:27:22] <burfi> more porting effort, though?
[14:28:17] <mmadia> the cyclic dependency just annoys me. like the sheer concept of it : )
[14:28:51] <burfi> what was it about again - porting OpenSync?
[14:29:06] <mmadia> hmm?
[14:29:14] <burfi> why you need glib...
[14:29:43] <mmadia> i'm trying to get mozilla's build tools compiled for haiku.
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[14:33:55] <burfi> is there any type of partition I could use to share data between Haiku and Linux - FAT?
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[14:34:20] <burfi> since I have no networking in Haiku
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[14:35:25] <Ingenu> FAT
[14:35:30] <burfi> ok
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[15:00:59] <Stargater> cu
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[15:01:40] <mmadia> should boot/develop/headers/posix/poll.h  be located in posix/sys/poll.h ?
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[15:02:23] <Barrett666> i tried to do "configure --cross-tools-prefix /boot/apps/haiku/cross-tools/bin/i586-pc-haiku-"
[15:02:31] <Barrett666> but nothing happens
[15:03:17] <Barrett666> and then i tried to type "configure"
[15:03:39] <Barrett666> and it speak to me
[15:03:41] <Barrett666>  $ configure
[15:03:42] <Barrett666>  GCC version 2.95.3-haiku-080323 is required!
[15:03:43] <Barrett666>  Please download it from www.haiku-os.org...
[15:03:45] <Barrett666> why?
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[15:04:48] <Barrett666> i installed the gcc haiku compiler
[15:05:07] <mmadia> to boot/apps/haiku ?
[15:05:09] <Barrett666> anyone have an idea?
[15:05:12] <Barrett666> yes mmadia
[15:05:34] <Barrett666> i use beos r5 + bone
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[15:08:01] <mmadia> Barrett666 re-run the configure line with the --cross-tools option.
[15:08:52] <mmadia> ....it doesn't output anythnig to terminal.    afterwards,  run   jam -q haiku-image or whatever.
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[15:27:36] <mmadia> is there any way to recover a dirty or unmountable BFS partition?
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[16:07:43] <nielx> hola
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[16:09:26] <mmadia> howdy
[16:09:42] <cshaiku> heh
[16:10:15] <cshaiku> Bedoperer is funny
[16:10:21] <cshaiku> http://bedoperer.googlepages.com/1.html
[16:14:50] <nielx> mmadia: I'm trying to build git to see whether I am able to fetch the sources from the repository :-)
[16:14:55] <helf> wow
[16:15:15] <mmadia> which sources , nielx ?
[16:15:22] <helf> it amazes me the number of people that walk into the computer lab, plop down at a pc, stare at it for 30 minutes trying to figure out how to get on adn then leave without ever asking the person behind the desk :P
[16:16:14] <cshaiku> you work at a lab somewhere?
[16:16:40] <helf> well, i call it that for some reason. its the libraries "computer center". im having to work the helldesk this morning
[16:17:24] <helf> people probably dont want to ask me questions since i havent shaved in over a week and my eyes are bloodshot and im kinda pale this morning... was sick last night. heh
[16:17:53] * mmadia babysit ... bbiaf
[16:18:13] <nielx> mmadia: yes, but I don't know if it will work, because the build system relies on hard links
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[16:19:52] <miqlas> Hello4
[16:19:54] <helf> my god, someone else did it. when you come in i have to register you for specific computers. been open 20 minutes and three people have already done and stared at the wrong computer or just sat down at one without registering...
[16:19:55] <helf> heh
[16:19:56] <helf> hey miqlas
[16:20:06] <miqlas> Hello Helf!
[16:20:13] <helf> how are you?
[16:20:21] <helf> it's afternoon where you are, isnt it?
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[16:20:30] <miqlas> Yes, correct.
[16:20:35] <Barrett666> jam says me this error
[16:20:36] <Barrett666> http://rafb.net/p/Ggqw5u59.html
[16:20:37] <miqlas> Today i make a trip.
[16:20:43] <miqlas> ..i was..
[16:20:44] <Barrett666> why?
[16:20:45] <cshaiku> maybe the rules are not clear, helf ?
[16:21:38] <helf> cshaiku, well, one guy was a regular, i tell people exactly which computer when i make th eregistration, the computers have a number sticker on them AND say their number in big bold numerals on their screens... and... :P
[16:21:54] <cshaiku> are you there to enforce the rules?
[16:22:30] <helf> i dont have to enforce correct computers. the software does. i do enforce some other ones and jsut generally help out. speaking of which. brb.
[16:25:27] <helf> back..
[16:25:53] <cshaiku> so, make a sign or something for each pc?
[16:26:06] <cshaiku> "See front desk for your login credentials"
[16:26:15] <helf> i think it displays that message alreday
[16:26:16] <helf> lemme check
[16:26:45] <cshaiku> speaking of that.. another server just blew up
[16:26:46] <cshaiku> dammit
[16:28:02] <helf> oh fun
[16:28:21] <helf> ha, no, my boss didnt put that in the message it displays.. ill add it later..
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[16:40:39] <ddew|bofh> wth? i just booted into my haiku-partition and it goes straight to the installer
[16:43:18] <helf> heh
[16:43:25] <helf> what did you DO to that poor partition?
[16:43:44] <ddew|bofh> absolutely nothing :)
[16:44:03] <bogomipz> it's probably supposed to detect that it's running off a CD before doing that
[16:44:07] <Ingenu> if it's like the BeOS you can start the OS from the installer and kill the installer script
[16:44:07] <cshaiku> you scared it by installing vista on another partition, didn't ya
[16:44:07] <ddew|bofh> i tried to build the source tree but that was on another partition
[16:44:18] <ddew|bofh> Ingenu: yeah, i did that :)
[16:44:44] <Ingenu> how are you going to make it realize you don't want to start the installer upon booting ?
[16:45:14] <ddew|bofh> i'll check userbootscript and see if it's become corrupted
[16:46:28] <ddew|bofh> weird, bootscript looks fine
[16:47:12] <ddew|bofh> aha! the partition's mounted read-only
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[16:49:22] * bogomipz thinks starting the installer when booting from read-only is not the best idea ever
[16:49:58] <bogomipz> why not just have a script on the CD that does that, and then *not* install that script to the hdd?
[16:50:16] <nielx> mmadia: did you recover your partition yet?
[16:50:50] <ddew|bofh> bogomipz: i'm guessing that's the plan, however haiku's nowhere near "install disc" stage yet :)
[16:51:39] <cshaiku> how did it get read-only, ddew|bofh ?
[16:52:03] <ddew|bofh> no idea, guess it must've been marked dirty for some reason
[16:52:13] <cshaiku> bad, bad disk!
[16:52:16] <bogomipz> from some discussions on the mailing list, the plan seems to be detecting that the boot volume is a CD
[16:52:16] <ddew|bofh> booting back into r5 and running chkbfs on it fixed it
[16:52:22] <cshaiku> oh wait, not that kind of dirty
[16:52:25] <ddew|bofh> heh
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[16:53:04] <ddew|bofh> limiting the installation to cd only seems like the wrong approach imo
[16:53:13] <cshaiku> indeed.
[16:53:21] <cshaiku> the Installer is SO handy to have on a hard drive
[16:53:22] <ddew|bofh> usb sticks ftw :)
[16:53:25] <cshaiku> or that
[16:53:33] <bogomipz> the installer would always be available, just not started from the boot script
[16:54:21] <ddew|bofh> yeah, but i think it shouldn't be a matter of detection or not. you'd have to specifically make the medium an install disc by copying bootscrip.cd to bootscript for example
[16:54:37] <ddew|bofh> that's my position on it anyways
[16:55:35] <bogomipz> and that's not what the current plan is, if I'm not mistaken
[16:56:16] <ddew|bofh> fine by me, i'm not one making the decision. it's a mistake imo but it's not me that's making the mistake
[16:58:56] <bogomipz> I agree, creating a ramdisk when /boot is read-only would rock, but starting the installer and not the desktop should only happen from the actual install cd
[16:59:36] <bogomipz> if it should even happen there, maybe a simple Installer icon on the desktop would be even nicer?
[16:59:50] <mmadia> nielx  no, i re-initialized it.   luckily it's a spare hard drive and wasn't much of an inconvenience.
[17:00:03] <cshaiku> 2. hours. to. go.
[17:00:04] <cshaiku> sigh
[17:00:11] <cshaiku> eyes burning
[17:00:53] <cshaiku> at least we have free pop, although I've cut waaaay back. down to 2 a day
[17:01:47] * cshaiku lovingly sips on some ice cold orange crush
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[17:11:05] <helf> hey yak
[17:11:08] <AnEvilYak> hiya
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[17:12:50] <helf> ....
[17:12:54] <helf> i dont have my wallet
[17:12:57] <helf> crap
[17:13:06] <cshaiku> someone pinched it?
[17:13:14] <helf> i left it at home on my desk :(
[17:13:30] <cshaiku> well, that's far less exciting. I prefer my version
[17:13:33] <helf> heh
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[17:13:53] <cshaiku> You better get the campus security involved, post stat!
[17:14:00] <helf> i have like $1 in my vehicle... and i cant make it home, to food, and back on my lunch break. SUCK!
[17:14:02] <helf> hehe
[17:14:41] <cshaiku> man... maybe its time to pull in those special favours of the janitorial staff you told me about
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[17:14:59] <helf> They are off on saturdays :(
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[17:15:20] <helf> maybe my sister is still home...
[17:15:21] <cshaiku> oh well, you probably left your camcorder at home anyhow... :(
[17:15:25] <helf> lol
[17:15:37] <helf> its in my car. but my battery is on my wall charging. figures ;P
[17:15:51] <cshaiku> no food OR pron
[17:15:53] <cshaiku> man
[17:15:54] <dr_evil> i need to leave. going to sauna
[17:15:57] <cshaiku> what a day for yo
[17:16:00] <cshaiku> you*
[17:16:01] <helf> yeah, for real
[17:16:23] <helf> on the bright side, im decompressing AVP:R dvd img on our server and will burn it to a dvd in a bit :P
[17:16:26] * cshaiku goes back to craigslist
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[17:18:39] <mmadia> gaah... can't figure out why glib won't see libiconv
[17:19:24] <cshaiku> You'll have to use some linux tools, I'm afraid... Introduce some Wine, and libiconv will start to look really sexy after a couple of hours
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[17:46:46] <helf> oh sweet
[17:47:15] <helf> I have a thing of easymac in my desk and I have *one* dollar on me which is enough for a drink. I'm set for lunch! Screw you lost wallet!
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[17:52:10] <cshaiku> sad
[17:53:58] <helf> tell me about it
[17:56:13] <cshaiku> weird: http://www.covertcomic.com/spaiku.htm
[17:56:20] <burfi> mmadia, AFAIK glibc includes libiconv, while BSD needs libiconv as a seperate lib. So it depends how this is meant work with Haiku's libroot - which I don't know
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[18:00:29] <helf> wtf
[18:00:32] <helf> CIA Haiku?
[18:04:53] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
[18:08:08] <Thom_Holwerda> http://cogscanthink.blogsome.com/2008/04/05/high/
[18:08:11] <Thom_Holwerda> bwahahah
[18:08:53] <Thom_Holwerda> ola, everone, btw.
[18:08:57] *** daste has quit IRC
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[18:09:31] <ddew|bofh> oh, so people offing themselves is funny?
[18:09:41] * ddew|bofh makes a note of that
[18:10:00] *** daste has joined #haiku
[18:10:24] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: in such a way?
[18:10:25] <Thom_Holwerda> yes.
[18:10:33] * JonathanThompson laughs uproariously at more teenagers rediscovering an old way to screw up and kill themselves
[18:10:51] <ddew|bofh> to me all life is sacred, the mere thought of laughing at death is revolting
[18:11:09] <JonathanThompson> All the more reason to laugh at death: tell it to hose off ;)
[18:11:14] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: im not actually laughing at the death itself
[18:11:17] <Thom_Holwerda> that's very sad
[18:11:22] <Thom_Holwerda> im laughing at the WAY
[18:11:53] <stpere> morning
[18:11:55] <Thom_Holwerda> if i were to die off something really stupid, or in some stupid manner, feel free to laugh your ass off
[18:11:56] * JonathanThompson imagines them in the post-mortal existence when people ask them, "So, how did you die?"
[18:11:57] <Thom_Holwerda> :)
[18:11:58] <ddew|bofh> i don't find it very funny that people are stupid enough to go suck on pipes because of looking for drugs
[18:12:14] <ddew|bofh> there is no "post-mortal" existence :)
[18:12:22] <Thom_Holwerda> NO MORE RELIGION
[18:12:28] <Thom_Holwerda> i cant handle it after my blog post on atheism
[18:12:29] <Thom_Holwerda> :P
[18:12:33] <JonathanThompson> How do you know that, ddew|bofh? :)
[18:13:06] <ddew|bofh> JonathanThompson: the lack of proof of otherwise of course
[18:13:29] <ddew|bofh> i'll be the first to admit life after death once i see proof of it
[18:13:39] <JonathanThompson> Just because you have lack of proof, doesn't mean something isn't true in all cases: it just means you currently lack proof.
[18:14:07] <JonathanThompson> Death and what happens is a special case, admittedly.
[18:14:08] <ddew|bofh> i lack proof saying that life after death exists, therefore i can't assume it exists
[18:14:24] <ddew|bofh> it's the first rule of science :)
[18:14:58] * JonathanThompson notes how many times things have been revised for beliefs in the name of science, from what was clearly "proven"
[18:15:27] <ddew|bofh> that's the beauty of science, noone's exempt from being proven otherwise
[18:15:35] <ddew|bofh> err *proven wrong
[18:15:47] <helf> hola
[18:16:03] * JonathanThompson points finger and laughs at helf
[18:16:04] <helf> uh
[18:16:38] <helf> ddew, scientists come up with shit a lot to make their calculations work even with no direct evidence of it existing... "dark energy" anyone? ;)
[18:17:03] * JonathanThompson thinks of a certain Star Trek movie...
[18:17:12] <ddew|bofh> helf: they're not claiming it's "the truth", it's a theory
[18:17:23] <ddew|bofh> and the proof supports their claim
[18:17:42] <helf> yeah, ok.
[18:17:43] <helf> :P
[18:17:46] <ddew|bofh> :)
[18:17:48] <helf> i suck at arguing
[18:17:49] <helf> :)
[18:17:59] <ddew|bofh> hehe
[18:18:00] * JonathanThompson thinks of the Ghost Busters commercial jingle
[18:18:05] <JonathanThompson> We're ready to believe you!
[18:19:02] * JonathanThompson thinks ddew|bofh needs to spend a year in a haunted house
[18:19:20] *** katisu has joined #haiku
[18:19:26] * helf wishes he lived in an alternate universe where space travel was the norm and we have colonies everywhere...
[18:19:28] *** emitrax has joined #haiku
[18:19:29] <ddew|bofh> why? so i can get creeped out by weird noises?
[18:19:40] <JonathanThompson> Why not?
[18:19:47] <helf> ghosts\psh
[18:19:52] <JonathanThompson> If there's nothing after death, haunting can't possibly scare you.
[18:19:53] <helf> who the hell would "haunt" the place they died
[18:19:55] <helf> sounds retardedc
[18:19:56] <ddew|bofh> because i like where i live and don't feel the need to move? :)
[18:20:18] <ddew|bofh> for the record, i don't believe in hauntings either
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[18:20:42] <JonathanThompson> ddew|bofh, there's some great properties people won't live in because of some minor little issue like past murders and the haunting that's supposed to result!
[18:20:59] <helf> shutter
[18:21:01] <helf> go watch it ;)
[18:21:05] <helf> ii havent seen it yet...
[18:21:16] <ddew|bofh> it's not my fault is it? what do i have to do with people being afraid of ghosts?
[18:21:21] * JonathanThompson notes helf is already stuttering
[18:21:39] <ddew|bofh> just because i don't believe in ghosts it doesn't mean that noone else does
[18:21:59] <AnEvilYak> 1408!
[18:22:08] <helf> that movie was.. ok..
[18:22:20] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666
[18:22:33] <helf> AnEvilYak, Rinne was awesome :D
[18:22:42] <AnEvilYak> Rinne?
[18:23:02] <helf> the american title was reincarnation
[18:23:10] <cshaiku> morning, all
[18:23:11] <helf> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0456630/
[18:24:02] <AnEvilYak> ah wait
[18:24:05] <AnEvilYak> I have heard of that
[18:24:36] * JonathanThompson wonders where part of a dream of his where a black panther that was stalking women in a grocery store parking lot turned into a human woman came from
[18:24:52] <helf> AnEvilYak, i liked it
[18:25:03] <AnEvilYak> JonathanThompson: ......
[18:25:28] <ddew|bofh> i'm blaming crack abuse ;)
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[18:25:34] <helf> a racist black man was stalking white women then turned into one?
[18:25:40] <JonathanThompson> No, helf.
[18:25:43] <helf> ^_^
[18:25:46] <JonathanThompson> Not that interpretation :D
[18:26:08] <helf> you obviously have issues with your mother
[18:26:18] <JonathanThompson> Yeah!  She's DEAD!
[18:26:24] <helf> lol
[18:26:26] <helf> er
[18:26:27] <helf> LOL
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[18:26:49] *** frankps_ has joined #haiku
[18:26:57] <helf> s, yeah, go watch it, yak :)
[18:26:58] <AnEvilYak> it's an invasion of franks!
[18:27:01] *** frankps_ has left #haiku
[18:27:07] <ddew|bofh> no it's not :P
[18:27:17] <helf> frank killed frank!
[18:28:51] <JonathanThompson> This has all become Frankly revolting ;)
[18:29:04] <ddew|bofh> *drumroll*
[18:29:17] <helf> quite frankly, i dont give a damn
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[18:29:44] <JonathanThompson> Depending on where it is, people would consider you very generous if you gave a dam, though.
[18:30:15] * JonathanThompson wonders how many people will be seen on the dark side of the moon
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[18:30:39] <Teknomancer> hi JonathanThompson
[18:30:44] <JonathanThompson> Hiya, Teknomancer
[18:31:43] * JonathanThompson hands a Mew and Improved Cat-Stretching Device to Teknomancer
[18:31:53] <JonathanThompson> I expect you to only use it in love, Teknomancer!
[18:32:07] <Teknomancer> i have 2 cats in the house
[18:32:10] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: Mew as in the pokemon? :P
[18:32:20] <JonathanThompson> Mew as in a bad pun ;)
[18:32:48] * JonathanThompson isn't sure what Mew as in Pokemon is like
[18:32:53] <Teknomancer> http://hari.literaryforums.org/2007/12/22/the-cats-in-our-backyard  there they are
[18:32:54] <Teknomancer> :)
[18:33:12] <Teknomancer> meow you mean?
[18:33:29] <helf> OMG, its Teknomancer
[18:33:39] <JonathanThompson> They're definitely stretch-worthy, Teknomancer ;)
[18:33:51] <Teknomancer> hi helf
[18:33:57] <ddew|bofh> omfg, my haiku on haiku build succeeded :D
[18:34:10] * JonathanThompson waits for someone using the nickname of "Luddomancer" to sign on
[18:34:11] <cshaiku> quit lying.. that's the pot talking
[18:34:20] <Teknomancer> they stretch so often.. as though they're scared their muscles will freeze if they don't do it every 2 minutes
[18:34:21] <ddew|bofh> cd ..
[18:34:24] <ddew|bofh> oops
[18:34:24] <cshaiku> hehe
[18:35:11] <ddew|bofh> i have one keyboard on the desk and one in my lap, ever so often i mix them up :)
[18:35:15] <helf> suuure
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[18:35:20] *** katisu is now known as [Katisu]
[18:35:24] <JonathanThompson> WWS FTW :)
[18:35:33] <helf> do i need to send you a KVM? ;)
[18:35:38] <Teknomancer> i mix up mouse when i have 2 laptops side by side
[18:35:45] <JonathanThompson> That would only increase the chances, helf :)
[18:35:50] <Teknomancer> i move the mouse and i wonder, why the crap is the pointer not moving..
[18:35:51] <Teknomancer> lol
[18:36:06] <Teknomancer> WWF FTL
[18:36:57] <JonathanThompson> Earlier this week I tried to show a friend of mine the April Fool's video by the Yahoo CFO on the work laptop, and my friend was asking, "What are all those icons at the bottom of the screen?  Do you really have all that open??"
[18:37:11] <DeadYak> haha
[18:37:14] <JonathanThompson> Wrong Window Syndrome, Teknomancer :)
[18:37:15] <ddew|bofh> i already have a kvm connecting two of my machines :)
[18:37:39] <ddew|bofh> sadly it won't handle the resolution on my tft :(
[18:37:50] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson: ah.. nothing as embarassing as wrong tabs on the chat client :P
[18:38:09] <DeadYak> Teknomancer: you have no idea what kind of mistakes some of my friends have made that way :P
[18:38:10] <JonathanThompson> Especially when the wrong one you're typing to is someone important not to type the wrong thing to :D
[18:38:19] <Teknomancer> yeah :))
[18:38:20] <Teknomancer> haha
[18:38:30] <DeadYak> especially with the "auto-open new conversations" option
[18:38:41] * JonathanThompson notes quite a few things on bash.org that indicate many have been bitten, hard
[18:39:01] <JonathanThompson> Hopefully that's a figurative statement ;)
[18:39:25] <stpere> our cat has disappeared :-\ I hope nobody called the destructor..
[18:39:27] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: http://www.bash.org/?4848 - you mean like this one?
[18:39:46] <JonathanThompson> Prime example :)
[18:39:51] <DeadYak> :)
[18:39:58] <DeadYak> I don't see how it could possibly get much worse
[18:40:01] * JonathanThompson notes there's a fine line between cats and C++
[18:40:08] <helf> if she agreed, maybe?
[18:40:09] <DeadYak> except perhaps telling somebody how much you hate your boss and having it go to your boss's chat window
[18:40:41] *** hakimrie has quit IRC
[18:40:46] <JonathanThompson> Your grandmother being your boss and you saying that to her, that you want to do that, yet you hate her ;)
[18:40:57] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: weirdo :P
[18:41:00] <JonathanThompson> (And she agreed, to top it all off)
[18:41:09] <helf> deadyak, i was sending messages to a friend that was on one of the computers
[18:41:32] <helf> i typed in the wrong computer ID and sent "why do i always get the retards?" to the computer screen of the guy that i was complaining about
[18:41:40] <JonathanThompson> LOL
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[18:41:53] <DeadYak> helf: whoops...
[18:42:06] <DeadYak> helf: how were you sending 'em? messenger service?
[18:42:15] <helf> luckily it's just a little white box with text. no identifying info ;) he was like "whats this?" "huh, I DONT INOW! bee ngetting stuff like that ALL week!"
[18:42:28] <helf> our pc management software lets you send messages to clients
[18:42:29] <DeadYak> guess not
[18:42:31] <DeadYak> oh
[18:42:33] *** _Lucretia__ is now known as _Lucretia_
[18:43:07] * JonathanThompson predicts helf will go into HR for a career
[18:43:14] <helf> ew
[18:43:31] <Teknomancer> i don't like HR people
[18:43:36] <Teknomancer> well atleast those that conduct interviews
[18:43:45] <helf> my boss conducted my interview
[18:43:50] <helf> we ended up playing nethack
[18:44:02] *** AlexForster has quit IRC
[18:44:11] * JonathanThompson votes helf for the Twilight Zone Interview Result Award
[18:46:36] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
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[18:47:50] * cshaiku feels suddenly hungry
[18:48:04] * JonathanThompson feeds cshaiku a Suddenly
[18:48:10] <uranium> anyone planning to port x264 to haiku?
[18:48:16] <ddew|bofh> yes
[18:48:18] <cshaiku> oh, we can plan....
[18:48:27] <cshaiku> do we actually go through with the plan?
[18:48:29] <cshaiku> :P
[18:48:37] <ddew|bofh> hardly ever ;)
[18:48:41] <helf> i plan on porting Q3 to haiku
[18:48:51] * cshaiku plans on deporting JonathanThompson back to Mars
[18:48:52] <Teknomancer> shit
[18:49:00] <cshaiku> wait, did I say that out loud?
[18:49:01] <Teknomancer> the guy who i bought the audio system for the car
[18:49:05] <uranium> any plan to use GUI frontend for x264 or just CLI ?
[18:49:12] <Teknomancer> has given me a CD with Barbie Girl, Backstreet Boys and Ricky Martin
[18:49:14] <Teknomancer> how generous
[18:49:17] <Teknomancer> damn
[18:49:20] <cshaiku> collectors items!
[18:49:39] <helf> wtf
[18:49:39] <helf> kill him
[18:49:42] <Teknomancer> he said "you listen to english songs also? right.. you can keep that CD, all hit songs"
[18:49:43] <helf> HE CANT REPLICATE
[18:49:51] <Teknomancer> damn, i didn't expect metal but :(
[18:49:58] <cshaiku> all hit songs... lol
[18:50:17] <Teknomancer> lol
[18:50:28] <cshaiku> the kind of songs where you NEED a hit to listen to them
[18:50:29] <Teknomancer> yeah now i know why he was so generous gifting it..
[18:50:53] <cshaiku> sorry ddew|bofh, I couldn't bring any back from NL for yo
[18:51:10] <JonathanThompson> cshaiku:  "Oops!  Wrong Planet Syndrome!" has struck again!
[18:51:11] *** Euver has quit IRC
[18:51:14] <JonathanThompson> (I'm not from Mars)
[18:51:21] <JonathanThompson> Much farther away ;)
[18:51:28] <cshaiku> Uranus?
[18:51:31] * cshaiku ducks
[18:51:34] <helf> heh
[18:51:45] <bogomipz> did i hear anus?
[18:51:47] <JonathanThompson> I suppose that had to come in the end, cshaiku ;)
[18:51:52] <cshaiku> oh god
[18:51:53] <helf> http://qdb.us/102983
[18:51:57] <helf> wow, one that actualyl got a ton of votes
[18:52:11] <Teknomancer> ls Barbie Girl.mp3 Black Or White.mp3 Britney spears - i'm a slave 4 u.mp3  Coco Jumbo.mp3 Cotton Eyed Joe.mp3 Dr. Bombay - Calcutta.mp3  Everybody.mp3  Fat Boy Slim - Right Here Right Now .mp3  bash-3.2$
[18:52:26] <Teknomancer> it keeps getting better and better..
[18:52:29] <helf> D:
[18:52:32] <helf> burn it
[18:52:35] <cshaiku> O_O
[18:52:40] <helf> burn it WITH FIRE
[18:52:46] <ddew|bofh> twice
[18:52:47] <Teknomancer> yeah REALLY burning :)
[18:52:54] <helf> thrice
[18:52:59] <cshaiku> mail it to Bernd
[18:53:01] <JonathanThompson> What's wrong, cshaiku?  You can give it, but can't take it?  You must always be on top???
[18:53:02] <helf> heh
[18:53:05] <cshaiku> his leather pants would like that cd
[18:53:14] <helf> who the heck wears leather pants... :P
[18:53:20] <JonathanThompson> Cows do!
[18:53:25] <cshaiku> I've touched his leather pants
[18:53:28] <cshaiku> it wasn't pretty
[18:53:39] * JonathanThompson imagines cshaiku on top of Bernd, shudders
[18:54:02] <JonathanThompson> I bet you were riding him pretty hard, too.
[18:54:13] * JonathanThompson needs to get more sleep before getting online
[18:54:15] <ddew|bofh> seriously, what twisted mind comes up with a scenario like that? :O
[18:54:16] <ddew|bofh> :P
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[18:54:45] <cshaiku> no doubt
[18:54:51] <cshaiku> thank god he's on our side
[18:54:53] <JonathanThompson> A mind that dreams up a black panther stalking a woman in a grocery store parking lot turning into a human woman stalking another human woman in the same parking lot ;)
[18:55:00] <cshaiku> can you imagine if he were evil and plotting against us?
[18:55:08] <JonathanThompson> You'd be so hosed!
[18:55:18] <cshaiku> we'd end up with tons of packages containing leather pants, and bad cd's
[18:55:21] <JonathanThompson> (Not with my hose, though: you're self-hosing)
[18:55:21] <ddew|bofh> indeedeo
[18:55:29] <ddew|bofh> indeedio
[18:56:12] <helf> if JT was evil.. he'd be Dr. Evil
[18:56:37] <JonathanThompson> I'd make Dr. Evil seem like kindergartner Evil.
[18:56:56] <helf> im evil
[18:56:59] <helf> but people dont notice
[18:57:02] <helf> :(
[18:57:08] <JonathanThompson> That's what makes you truly evil ;)
[18:57:21] <JonathanThompson> Stealth-mode evil FTW!
[18:57:28] <helf> what was that quote from God..
[18:57:40] <helf> "If you do things right, people can't tell if you've done anything at all."
[18:58:08] <JonathanThompson> I figured out a long time ago that there's no point in worrying about having everyone like you...
[18:58:22] <helf> ive never worried about that :P
[18:58:32] <helf> they all love me until they get to kno wme
[18:58:34] <JonathanThompson> If you believe in Christian doctrine, quite simply, even if you're perfect, you'll have enemies.
[18:58:38] <helf> then i never hear from them again
[18:58:39] * helf cries
[18:58:47] <JonathanThompson> Therefore, if you die without enemies, you've done nothing useful in life.
[18:58:47] <Teknomancer> shittybank sending me spam mails.. damn. and to unsubscribe i must login. which i can't thanks to its sophisticated security system that requires me to type 16-digit username and highstrength passwords thru an onscreen keyboard that changes everytime.  ... :/
[18:59:18] <helf> shittybank! they send you coupons for shittychicken?
[18:59:30] <helf> "no, not my shittychicken!"
[18:59:37] * helf loves southpark
[18:59:48] <Teknomancer> i  like spongebob
[18:59:58] <Teknomancer> :P
[18:59:59] <helf> ive seen almost every SB episode
[19:00:00] *** petterhj has quit IRC
[19:00:05] * JonathanThompson imagines Teknomancer watching a new Disney reincarnation of an old classic movie, sponsored by Shittybank, called "Shitty Shitty Bang Bang" which is the sound of someone crapping in a steel bucket
[19:00:14] <helf> D:
[19:00:18] <Teknomancer> i need to visit the US atleast to buy the complete SB and Garfield: and Friends on DVD :(
[19:00:25] <helf> oh god
[19:00:28] <helf> the new GF movie blows
[19:00:33] <Teknomancer> not movie
[19:00:37] <Teknomancer> i'm talking about Garfield and  Friends
[19:01:03] * JonathanThompson wonders if pussies watch Garfield and Friends
[19:01:18] <JonathanThompson> Do you cats watch attentively, Teknomancer?
[19:01:19] <helf> the old cartoon?
[19:01:46] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson: no they come only for food and then wander off or sleep 24 hours a day if possible. and whatever food they want, they want it soaked in milk :(
[19:01:51] <Teknomancer> helf: yah
[19:02:02] <helf> the cartoon was pretty good :)
[19:02:05] <helf> i havent seen ti in years
[19:02:08] <JonathanThompson> Do this for a change: soak their food in rum and see what happens ;)
[19:02:09] <Teknomancer> and the milk should be warm.. if its cold, they won't touch it
[19:02:43] * JonathanThompson wonders what Teknomancer's life expectancy would be if he didn't feed the cats
[19:02:44] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson:  procuring rum here can be.. well, problematic :)
[19:02:47] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
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[19:02:52] <JonathanThompson> Well, beer, then!
[19:02:57] <Teknomancer> that too
[19:02:59] <JonathanThompson> (Or some other fermented drink)
[19:03:02] <Teknomancer> anything alchoholic
[19:03:17] <JonathanThompson> Not that I've done such a thing myself...
[19:03:20] <Teknomancer> hehe i -can- get it... but my mom would be suspicious if I started drinking
[19:03:21] <Teknomancer> lol
[19:03:52] <JonathanThompson> When I lived in Indianapolis, I didn't have to buy beer: if I waited long enough, there'd be entire unopened cans lobbed into my backyard from the road ;)
[19:04:46] <JonathanThompson> Beer makes excellent fertilizer ;)
[19:04:59] <Teknomancer> unopened?
[19:05:00] <Teknomancer> why?
[19:05:02] <helf> heh
[19:05:17] <JonathanThompson> Across the road from  the house I had was a large city park...
[19:05:27] <JonathanThompson> Quite often, there'd be cops there in their cars.
[19:06:00] <helf> heh
[19:06:04] <helf> "quick! toss it!:'
[19:06:07] <JonathanThompson> I suspect the beer was lobbed out of the car by teenagers.
[19:06:43] <JonathanThompson> Likely during regular school hours, and not wanting to get in more trouble if they're caught skipping, by having alcohol in their cars.
[19:06:49] *** Stargater has joined #haiku
[19:06:52] <Stargater> re
[19:06:55] <Teknomancer> oh .. the whole drink and drive thing
[19:07:05] <helf> what a binch of morons
[19:07:12] <helf> I can't stand people that drink and drive
[19:07:17] * JonathanThompson wonders how many people are in a binch
[19:07:29] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[19:07:56] <helf> I'm all for people that are caught drunk driving being charged with conspiring to attempt murder with a motor vehicle :P
[19:08:05] <JonathanThompson> What I can't comprehend is how lax the system is on repeat drunk-driving offenders, especially those that have gotten into accidents where they killed people.
[19:08:09] *** nielx has quit IRC
[19:08:17] <helf> they need to be shot
[19:08:23] <JonathanThompson> Especially such things as driving at high speeds in the wrong direction on an interstate.
[19:08:44] <JonathanThompson> I think Turkey has the right idea.
[19:08:56] <JonathanThompson> (Though perhaps they've eased up since becoming part of the EU, IIRC)
[19:09:04] <helf> chop their hands off?
[19:09:13] <JonathanThompson> Even if it doesn't deter them, it at least gets rid of the problem.
[19:09:18] <JonathanThompson> Nah, why stop with hands?
[19:09:25] <helf> chop their balls off?
[19:09:32] <JonathanThompson> They can still drive that way...
[19:09:40] <helf> chop their legs off
[19:09:40] <JonathanThompson> (And not everyone has balls)
[19:09:47] <JonathanThompson> You can still drive that way, too.
[19:09:50] <helf> damnit
[19:09:55] <helf> chop their limbs off
[19:10:00] <JonathanThompson> No...
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[19:10:05] <Ingenu> head
[19:10:08] <JonathanThompson> Yes.
[19:10:41] <helf> thats awesome
[19:10:44] <helf> we should do that
[19:10:48] <JonathanThompson> Even Amish drink and drive, and have nasty results.
[19:10:59] <helf> darn horses break legs
[19:11:15] <Teknomancer> who's Amish?
[19:11:24] <JonathanThompson> I knew of a story in/around Fort Wayne, Indiana, where a young Amish couple were out driving their horse and carriage drunk, and ran a stop sign: a pickup truck coming the other way hit them...
[19:11:27] <JonathanThompson> The horse was totaled.
[19:11:59] <JonathanThompson> Wikipedia time for you, Teknomancer :)
[19:12:45] <Thom_Holwerda> boo.
[19:14:04] <helf> tek : they live without most modern technology. they dont like it :P
[19:14:38] <Thom_Holwerda> and they raise barns have cool sideburns and beards
[19:14:54] * JonathanThompson believes they'd actually be quite warm...
[19:15:11] <JonathanThompson> I don't think the women generally have cool sideburns and beards ;)
[19:15:22] <Thom_Holwerda> i hope note.
[19:16:55] <helf> my GOD
[19:17:05] <helf> i just had to ask this girl what she wanted like 10 times
[19:17:15] <helf> she wouldtn speak up, she talked real fast and kinda slurred it all together
[19:17:30] <helf> and did not make any movements that would help the second person understand her
[19:17:44] <Thom_Holwerda> where?
[19:17:46] <Thom_Holwerda> work?
[19:17:47] <Thom_Holwerda> home?
[19:17:49] <Thom_Holwerda> school?
[19:17:53] <helf> work..
[19:17:57] <Thom_Holwerda> ah ok
[19:18:19] <Thom_Holwerda> i know what you mean, ive been working in the same store for nearly 6 yrs now...
[19:18:24] <Thom_Holwerda> seen it all by now.
[19:18:39] <helf> wow, 6 years?
[19:18:42] <helf> where do you work?
[19:19:03] <Teknomancer> oh.. so they're people who refuse technology?
[19:19:10] <helf> more or less
[19:19:21] <Teknomancer> that's news to me, never seen/heard of such before
[19:19:22] <helf> well, electronic technology
[19:19:26] <helf> really?
[19:19:30] <Teknomancer> nope
[19:19:34] <helf> I thought everyone knew the amish :P
[19:19:35] <Thom_Holwerda> helf: at a specialised DIY store/plumbing company/roofing company/carpenter/etc.
[19:19:41] <helf> oh cool
[19:19:44] <Thom_Holwerda> very old family business (im not family)
[19:19:48] <helf> tek, read the wikipedia entry?
[19:19:49] <Teknomancer> helf:  are they only in US or .. ?
[19:19:52] <helf> i dunno
[19:19:53] <Teknomancer> helf: reading
[19:19:53] <helf> might be
[19:20:45] <JonathanThompson> helf, what sort of movements would someone need to make that'd make it easier to understand them?
[19:21:25] <Thom_Holwerda> ASL?
[19:21:34] <Teknomancer> child labour laws problems as well for them.. interesting.
[19:21:35] <Thom_Holwerda> as in, American Sign Language, that is.
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[19:33:54] <Teknomancer> g'nite all
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[19:40:43] <miqlas> Hello
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[19:55:32] <stpere> I want your opinion.. if the filesize is smaller than the patch size, should I just submit the file itself rather than the patch, or submit the patch anyway for sake of simplicity?
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[19:58:04] <mmadia> hi umccullough_x
[19:58:09] <umccullough_x> hi mmadia
[19:58:21] <umccullough_x> i crashed hard last night and just work up a bit ago :/
[19:58:26] <mmadia> ..passed out earlier than i expected
[19:58:27] <mmadia> : D
[19:58:38] <umccullough_x> yeah, i was pretty wiped
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[19:59:18] <stpere> hi mmadia, umccullough_x
[19:59:18] <umccullough_x> i see stippi's hanging around again :)
[19:59:29] <umccullough_x> hi stpere
[19:59:53] <mmadia> hi stpere ,  i'd go with the patch.
[20:00:01] <stpere> ok
[20:00:23] <stpere> anyway, it's not that big anyway
[20:00:27] <stpere> anyway ;-)
[20:00:34] <stpere> I have some verbal ticks
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[20:01:18] <mmadia> hrmmph.   libiconv is refusing to build shared libraries.
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[20:01:31] <DeadYak> on r5?
[20:01:37] <mmadia> haiku.
[20:01:39] <DeadYak> oh
[20:02:26] <mmadia> i'm trying to compile newer versions of glib + libIDL to muck around with porting mozilla
[20:02:54] <mmadia> glib needed pkgconfig and iconv()
[20:02:54] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[20:03:48] <mmadia> when running libiconv's configure  ::  "checking if libtool supports shared libraries... no"
[20:06:47] <umccullough_x> mmadia, did you get pkgconfig ported to haiku?
[20:07:12] <mmadia> i think so...  i used    ./configure --build=i586-pc-haiku --prefix=/boot/home/config
[20:07:17] <umccullough_x> ah ;)
[20:07:22] <umccullough_x> built without problems eh?
[20:07:25] <umccullough_x> nice
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[20:07:59] <mmadia> trying the --build option was purely a guess : )
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[20:08:12] <stpere> grr, maximum attachment size ;-\
[20:08:46] <umccullough_x> mmadia, oh, you actually threw -haiku at the end?
[20:08:51] <umccullough_x> and it works?
[20:09:10] <mmadia> it built ,  i'm not making any claims if it works or not : D
[20:09:24] <umccullough_x> oh, i figured you meant that you used --build=i586-pc-beos
[20:09:31] <umccullough_x> interesting...
[20:10:28] <mmadia> yeah, the configure script seemed to pickup on i586-pc-haiku's buildtools
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[20:11:04] <umccullough_x> i see...
[20:11:35] <umccullough_x> i so don't understand how all those configure scripts work :)
[20:11:42] <umccullough_x> voodooish...
[20:12:10] <DeadYak> this is why everyone hates autotools :
[20:12:12] <DeadYak> :P
[20:12:31] <mmadia> +1
[20:12:45] <umccullough_x> granted, it does at least make things "portable" :/
[20:12:49] <umccullough_x> sortakinda
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[20:13:31] <mmadia> ooohh.  here's what i got while configuring libtools-2.2.2 ...
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[20:14:03] <mmadia> checking whether the g++ linker (/boot/develop/tools/gnupro/i586-pc-haiku/bin/ld) supports shared libraries... no
[20:14:16] <umccullough_x> eh?
[20:14:28] <mmadia> this is r24784
[20:14:45] <mmadia> *nods*
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[20:16:02] <umccullough_x> mmadia, i would check to see if there's any crap in there hardcoded to work around that in beos
[20:17:09] <DeadYak> umccullough_x: it shouldn't actually detect it as BeOS though
[20:17:10] <umccullough_x> reminds me of something i've read about somewhere
[20:17:26] <umccullough_x> DeadYak, yeah, but the same basic compiler/linker still...might require similar workarounds
[20:17:50] <umccullough_x> i.e. add the hacks for haiku also :(
[20:18:12] <umccullough_x> or fix the underlying issue ;)
[20:19:08] <umccullough_x> ok, so i never knew how to get back to X from a terminal window after using ctrl-alt-f1, etc...
[20:19:32] <umccullough_x> apparently ctrl-alt-f7 does it ...
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[20:21:48] <stpere> yup
[20:22:13] <umccullough_x> would be nice if you somehow were told that once you've done it :)
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[20:24:49] <stpere> I think it's set in /etc/inittab, but it seems ubuntu has changed that standard
[20:24:55] <stpere> it used to be there IIRC
[20:25:20] <mmadia> umccullough_x  adding "| haiku*" to some of the more interesting lines in configure helped.
[20:25:31] <umccullough_x> mmadia, i would guess :/
[20:26:00] <umccullough_x> will be a while before all the common packages have haiku in them officially i guess
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[20:26:49] <burfi> autotools solves a problem that no longer exists, not even in the diverse world of Unix
[20:27:04] <mmadia> are there any wiki's on re-porting software for haiku?  : )
[20:27:35] <umccullough_x> mmadia, beports would be one of the best options, but i'm not sure how active it is
[20:28:11] <umccullough_x> http://tools.assembla.com/BePorts
[20:28:37] <umccullough_x> good concept, not finished :(
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[20:31:16] * umccullough_x scavenged another part from the 5150 laptop
[20:31:27] <umccullough_x> woot! now this laptop has all its rubber feet :)
[20:32:55] <mmadia> do you know of anyway to mount  images in haiku?
[20:33:01] <umccullough_x> uh..
[20:33:12] <umccullough_x> good question for the dev list
[20:33:16] <mmadia> axel's mountimage tracker addon doesn't want to work for me : (
[20:33:30] <umccullough_x> i bet axel would put it in the repo if someone reminded him ;)
[20:34:59] <umccullough_x> rebooting into haiku
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[20:37:11] <umccullough_h> damn, this laptop boots haiku pretty quick
[20:37:31] <umccullough_h> faster than the desktop machine i usually use
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[20:40:28] <umccullough_h> checking to see what Git wants for deps...
[20:40:37] <ddew|bofh> mmadia: the mount tool does it
[20:41:10] <ddew|bofh> mmadia: just need to make a mount point for it, then you you just do "mount haiku.image /mountpoint"
[20:41:15] <umccullough_h> poll.h and mman.h
[20:41:18] <umccullough_h> hmm...
[20:41:33] <mmadia> sonnofa... thanks ddew|bofh
[20:41:38] <umccullough_h> ddew|bofh that would make sense :)
[20:41:48] <mmadia> umccullough_h i've needed to symlink poll.h to sys/poll.h
[20:42:00] <umccullough_h> mmadia sorry, it's already looking for sys/poll.h
[20:42:06] <umccullough_h> i just abbreviated ;)
[20:42:13] <umccullough_h> couldn't find it though..weird
[20:42:26] <mmadia> sorry, i'm either a few cups of coffee behind or ahead ...
[20:42:38] <mmadia>  symlinked boot/develop/headers/posix/poll.h
[20:42:39] <mmadia>  to boot/develop/headers/posix/sys/poll.h
[20:42:43] <umccullough_h> oh i see
[20:42:59] <umccullough_h> is it supposed to be in sys?
[20:43:06] <umccullough_h> i.e. should it just be moved?
[20:43:37] <mmadia> no idea, that's why i took the safe route.
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[20:44:34] <umccullough_h> also, mman.h isn't anywhere
[20:44:46] <umccullough_h> guess i better look that up
[20:45:51] <umccullough_h> looks like poll.h can be in either location
[20:45:56] <umccullough_h> guess Git doesn't know that
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[20:51:07] <umccullough_h> looks like mman.h is expected if the OS supports mmap
[20:55:17] <DeadYak> yeah, that should be doable though, just no one's gotten around to it
[20:56:01] <DeadYak> mmadia: mkdir /mountpoint ; mount -t bfs yourbfs.image /mountpoint ; should work in Haiku btw
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[20:57:40] <umccullough_h> DeadYak that's what i was thinking - i'll disable it and see if i get further :)
[20:58:08] <umccullough_h> there's a define for NO_MMAP that didn't get set...
[21:01:14] <umccullough_h> yeah, that got further...
[21:02:08] <umccullough_h> time for lunch
[21:02:10] <umccullough_h> bbl
[21:03:09] <stpere> patch sent :)
[21:03:28] <stpere> oh, yesterday, I over stated the saving in kernel size
[21:03:46] <stpere> I was counting the saving in the kernel + saving in intermediates .o too
[21:04:24] <stpere> the effective saving is 72KB in the kernel and 48KB in the bootloader
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[21:04:57] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[21:05:58] <stpere> hi mmu_man :)
[21:08:48] <mmadia> who was working on python for haiku?
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[21:09:20] <stpere> I don't recall
[21:09:39] <oco> not me : i am working on ruby !
[21:09:45] <cps1966> ok scooter
[21:12:31] <[Katisu]> aldeck??
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[21:12:46] <[Katisu]> http://www.flickr.com/photos/umccullough/446808235/
[21:14:55] <cps1966> 256 MB of ram thats kinda tiny for today??
[21:14:58] <[Katisu]> hmm..actually caption says patch was done by korli
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[21:20:42] <Stargater> http://tm.kaldience.com/data/php/dir.php?dir=/dir/members/stargater/bilder/Haiku_USB_Storage
[21:21:16] <helf> 2.33 hours left!
[21:22:17] <Stargater> umccullough do you port python to haiku ?
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[21:27:08] <Thom_Holwerda> latest comic up
[21:27:08] <Thom_Holwerda> http://www.osnews.com/comics
[21:27:56] <Stargater> Thom_Holwerda i want colored comics , and more manga style
[21:28:15] <Thom_Holwerda> haha
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[21:30:59] <Stargater> Thom_Holwerda joke
[21:31:06] <Stargater> good work
[21:31:22] <Thom_Holwerda> bwahaha apple is suing new york city for using a green apple as a logo
[21:31:55] <Thom_Holwerda> thanks Stargater
[21:32:06] <mmu_man> rotfl
[21:32:15] <cps1966> green apple belong to apple corp
[21:32:19] <mmadia> should -lc be explicitly linked in  when building crap in haiku?
[21:32:31] <cps1966> beatles stuff
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[21:32:35] <mmu_man> the big apple was called this way way before Apple stole the name of a record company ...
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[21:35:44] <umccullough_h> [Katisu], mmadia, it was aldeck
[21:35:53] <umccullough_h> Stargater no, it was aldeck - copied the image with his permission
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[21:37:07] <[Katisu]> mmadia?
[21:37:41] <mmadia> [Katisu] ?
[21:37:42] <Stargater> good aldeck, :-) it is python finish ?
[21:37:44] <[Katisu]> I assume you mean mmu_man
[21:37:45] <helf> ?aidamm
[21:38:05] <mmadia> ?fleh
[21:38:13] <[Katisu]> mmadia, sorry, I was referring to umccullough's comment
[21:38:46] <mmadia> [Katisu]  umccullough_h was address both of us : )
[21:38:46] <umccullough_h> [Katisu] i meant, you were answering mmadia, and it was aldeck that ported python :)
[21:38:46] <mmadia> +ing
[21:38:53] <[Katisu]> oh no, I'm confused :P
[21:39:00] <[Katisu]> sorry
[21:39:11] * [Katisu] blames it on Comcast
[21:39:32] <umccullough_h> damn, i forgot to put firefox on the haiku image for this laptop :/
[21:39:52] <umccullough_h> mmu_man how do you copy the URL from a links window?
[21:41:18] <Stargater> umccullough_h is python port full finish ?
[21:42:15] <umccullough_h> Stargater i have no clue
[21:42:40] <umccullough_h> i don't use it :)
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[21:43:14] <_TestamenT_> Hi
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[21:43:44] <stpere> yawn
[21:44:10] <mmu_man> umccullough_h hmm good question, I do'nt think you can
[21:44:22] <stpere> oh hi _TestamenT_
[21:44:32] * stpere is so rude :)
[21:45:06] * [Katisu] hands stpere a breath mint
[21:45:14] <stpere> haha
[21:45:15] <umccullough_h> mmu_man that's ok :) just curious
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[21:45:48] * [Katisu] thought umccullough_h was setting up a joke
[21:45:51] <Stargater> hi _TestamenT_
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[21:46:34] <umccullough_h> so, struct stat - is that posix?
[21:46:36] <Stargater> hi nibble
[21:47:07] <nibble> hola Stargater
[21:47:50] <stpere> hi -R * means that I salute your family too! :)
[21:47:51] <umccullough_h> stat.h apparently
[21:47:57] <[Katisu]> yes
[21:47:59] <mmu_man> yes it's POSIX
[21:49:04] <umccullough_h> is it supposed to have a st_blocks ?
[21:49:11] <mmadia> is i586-pc-haiku's ld supposed to support -lc ?
[21:49:52] <[Katisu]> looks like it
[21:50:05] <umccullough_h> mmu_man looks like st_blocks is expected by some software :P
[21:50:16] <umccullough_h> [Katisu] you answering me or mmadia?
[21:50:19] <[Katisu]> http://opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908775/xsh/sysstat.h.html
[21:50:25] <umccullough_h> ah
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[21:50:37] * umccullough_h needs to get firefox on here asap
[21:50:46] <mmadia> umccullough_h beshare?
[21:50:51] <umccullough_h> mmadia where's a link to the 2.0.0.14pre again?
[21:50:58] <umccullough_h> msg if you want
[21:51:01] <[Katisu]> blkcnt_t  st_blocks  number of blocks allocated for this object
[21:51:03] <mmadia> beshare:*@mmadia  : P
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[21:52:11] * umccullough_h doesn't have beshare
[21:52:19] <umccullough_h> k, hang on...
[21:52:32] * [Katisu] wonders if something would break if st_blocks is added
[21:52:36] <Wiss> hi all
[21:52:47] <Stargater> hi Wiss
[21:52:50] <umccullough_h> nm, i'll grab the bleeding edge build :)
[21:52:51] <stpere> hey Wiss :)
[21:53:09] <Wiss> mmu_man : ping
[21:53:12] * stpere is the guy at Walmart's door that welcomes you :)
[21:53:31] <umccullough_h> lol
[21:53:37] <umccullough_h> the old woman?
[21:53:38] <mmu_man> umccullough_h http://revolf.free.fr/beos/patches/samba-3.0.0-0005.patch.txt
[21:53:45] <mmu_man> ?
[21:53:48] <mmu_man> Wiss plop
[21:54:04] <stpere> (I'm kidding :))
[21:54:07] <[Katisu]> not the guy who stares at you as you exit?
[21:54:27] <stpere> hehe
[21:55:01] * [Katisu] wonders if that guy has a taser
[21:55:04] <Wiss> mmu_man : I have submitted the "Writing a CIFS client" projet , and I had problems this last time with my eligibility (with my special work permit in Canada), but now problems are resolved and I'm completely eligible :)
[21:55:44] <Wiss> Now, I really want to perfom my application, because I'm really interesting with all that
[21:56:01] <umccullough_h> mmu_man that's one way to... ignore it ;)
[21:56:10] <umccullough_h> mmu_man i was actually looking at what it takes to compile Git
[21:56:46] <Stargater> umccullough_h do you plan port GIT ?
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[21:56:55] <Wiss> Could you give me advises to perform my application ? Could you say me what are the priority project and what's the place of mine ?
[21:57:06] <Wiss> Thanks for all :)
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[21:57:18] <[Katisu]> Stargater, he plans on learning C\C++ first :P
[21:57:47] <umccullough_h> Stargater i just wanna see what it would take :)
[21:57:50] <umccullough_h> i'm not much of a dev
[21:57:52] <Stargater> oha
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[21:58:12] <Stargater> i think GIT need GLib
[21:58:29] * [Katisu] wonders what GLib needs
[21:58:47] <mmadia> [Katisu] pkg-config,  libiconv
[21:58:57] <umccullough_h>  			if (lstat(path, &st) || !S_ISREG(st.st_mode))
[21:58:58] <umccullough_h>  				bad = 1;
[21:58:58] <umccullough_h>  			else
[21:58:59] <umccullough_h>  				(*loose_size) += xsize_t(st.st_blocks);
[21:59:01] <Stargater> standart c and posix and buildttools cmake ?
[21:59:08] <umccullough_h> mmu_man what would you recommend?
[21:59:23] <mmadia> [Katisu]  i'm trying glib-2.14.6.tar.gz   atm, but i'm horribly stuck on getting libiconv built with shared libs.
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[21:59:57] <mmu_man> umccullough_h there is an AC macro to check for struct field
[22:00:02] <mmadia> i managed to convince configure to build shared libs but now i'm getting the '-lc' not found error.
[22:01:05] <mmu_man> mmadia that's cause we use libroot instead
[22:01:16] <mmu_man> one more stupid app making stupid assumptions
[22:01:34] <mmu_man> AC_CHECK_LIB(lstat,c) maybe
[22:01:35] <mmadia> being compiled by one more stupid dev : )
[22:01:46] <Stargater> any linux app need GLIB = irssi , nano, etc
[22:01:49] <mmu_man> you'll want to check for libm as well
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[22:06:41] <Stargater> mmu_man is you tutorial online on haiku-os.org ? portig unix to haiku ? == (xemacs port) , i think any dev need it to read
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[22:10:41] <mmadia> mmu_man any idea where or what to change to switch -lc for -libroot ?
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[22:12:47] <mmu_man> mmadia you don't need to link to libroot it's implicit
[22:13:26] <umccullough_h> yeah, i had to remove a -lm from a stupid makefile
[22:13:59] <mmadia> mmu_man let me sum up,  libiconv wasn't detecting the ability for g++ or gcc to build shared libs,   so i edited it's configure script and got that working.
[22:14:40] <mmadia> as a side result (i think) ,  configure/make is now trying to link -lc in and thus failng to link.
[22:14:41] <umccullough_h> finally got through the compile for git - link fails miserably still :)
[22:14:58] <mmu_man> Stargater http://revolf.free.fr/beos/BeGeistert-13/Porting%20Apps%20to%20BeOS.pdf
[22:15:53] <emitrax> does haiku have pppoe support ?
[22:15:55] <Stargater> yes but on haiku.os.org
[22:16:53] <mmu_man> emitrax don't think so
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[22:17:42] <emitrax> src/add-ons/kernel/network/ppp/pppoe/pppoe.cpp an addon looks to be there
[22:17:56] <umccullough_h> wkornewald was messing with it
[22:18:01] <umccullough_h> a long time ago :/
[22:18:38] <mmu_man> emitrax ah, don't know if it works
[22:18:41] <umccullough_h> even before the most recent netstack rewrite IIRC
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[22:20:50] <emitrax> is tracker down ?
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[22:23:43] <Stargater> http://tm.kaldience.com/dir/members/stargater/bilder/old.bmp
[22:23:50] <Stargater> http://tm.kaldience.com/dir/members/stargater/bilder/ralf%20Kopie.jpg
[22:24:46] <mmu_man> trac you mean ?
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[22:28:47] <Stargater> photomotage
[22:28:52] <Stargater> bbl
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[22:31:10] <emitrax> mmu_man: trac yeah
[22:31:22] <emitrax> dont know why I wrote tracker :)
[22:32:06] <mmu_man> Wiss honestly I didn't look at the submissions
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[22:34:22] <Wiss> mmu_man : ok . Could another developer look at this ?
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[22:48:14] <mmadia42> when Haiku is the only OS on a pc,  2 installs are better than 1
[22:48:15] <JonathanThompson> Thom_Holwerda, where did you read Apple was *sueing* New York in that trademark issue?
[22:48:26] <Thom_Holwerda> dutch site
[22:48:38] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: I've been seeing similar rumblings all over google news
[22:48:40] <JonathanThompson> In Trademark law, there's a period where the trademark being applied for is up for review.
[22:49:24] <JonathanThompson> But, if you have something similar, you *must* defend it, even if it isn't something likely to be an issue, for the record, and this is the part Apple is taking part of: it's not a lawsuit, it's merely them going through the standard process.
[22:49:45] <JonathanThompson> People are putting words in places they don't belong by adding them.
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[22:49:58] <DeadYak> indeed, if you don't defend a trademark, you lose it, you don't really have a choice about it
[22:50:03] <DeadYak> unlike copyrights or patents
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[22:51:01] <umccullough_h> hrm, haiku doesn't have S_ISSOCK or S_IFSOCK
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[22:51:35] <JonathanThompson> So, Apple, Inc. isn't involved in a lawsuit for this: they're only doing their due diligence as required by law, and noted their objections in the standard process.  Chances are Apple, Inc. will be overruled, though the Ars article did have someone point out graphically just how incredibly similar the details are between the shape of the Apple, Inc. icon and the New York one: the shape is almost identical, though perhaps somewhat of
[22:52:01] <JonathanThompson> So, perhaps they'll need to modify it somewhat due to that, because it's a graphical image that's so close in shape, but I can't say.
[22:52:28] <umccullough_h> how many ways can you draw an apple :)
[22:52:34] <umccullough_h> granted, i haven't looked
[22:52:52] <EuanK> seeing as it's recycling they should just have the logo as a chewed apple core.
[22:52:53] <DeadYak> Apple's variant does have the distinction of having a chunk missing in a particular spot :)
[22:53:04] <JonathanThompson> Well, the Ars poster showed that other than a few minor details, it was an almost perfect match for outline.
[22:53:10] <JonathanThompson> Too perfect, like they traced it.
[22:53:20] <umccullough_h> nice
[22:54:02] <JonathanThompson> http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/04/04/apple-battling-new-york-city-environmental-logo second post.
[22:54:22] <umccullough_h> can't browse here atm...too painful
[22:54:32] <JonathanThompson> Get out your iPhone ;)
[22:54:34] <DeadYak> Links!
[22:54:38] <JonathanThompson> Camera!
[22:54:40] <JonathanThompson> Action!
[22:54:42] <umccullough_h> bah, i ain't typing that crap into links :)
[22:55:06] * [Katisu] notes umccullough_h got a thank from the bottom of Luposian's heart
[22:55:08] <umccullough_h> oh, paste works
[22:55:39] <umccullough_h> yeah, Ars needs to fix their site for Links :P
[22:55:51] <Thom_Holwerda> pfff doesnt even work in mosaic
[22:56:02] <Thom_Holwerda> they dont care about their users at all
[22:56:17] <helf> what doesnt work in mosaic?
[22:56:22] <Thom_Holwerda> ars
[22:56:36] <umccullough_h> JonathanThompson that logo doesn't look anything like the apple logo
[22:56:55] <umccullough_h> i mean, at first glance - i wouldn't make that distinction
[22:56:56] <DeadYak> umccullough_h: typing? copy/paste
[22:56:59] <JonathanThompson> I won't argue that it is notably different in many ways, but... not everyone sees things in the same way.
[22:57:02] <helf> i have mosaic on something i own...
[22:57:07] <helf> i think my sparc has it :P
[22:57:10] <JonathanThompson> Some people only really look at outlines of shapes ;)
[22:57:45] <umccullough_h> yeah, maybe if you suffer from low vision problems :P
[22:58:02] <umccullough_h> DeadYak i didn't expect paste to work...since copy didn't ;)
[22:58:03] <JonathanThompson> Things aren't always that simple, umccullough_h ;)
[22:58:49] <umccullough_h> well, in any case - big deal - New York has been calling themselves the Big Apple far longer than apple has existed :)
[22:59:01] <JonathanThompson> True enough, but, did they trademark it? :D
[22:59:02] <umccullough_h> if they have to change the logo, i could care less
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[22:59:11] <JonathanThompson> I don't care, either, really.
[22:59:35] <JonathanThompson> It's not like I'll accidentally buy New York anyway: the price tag would give it away, besides not being able to fit it in my car ;)
[22:59:40] * [Katisu] doesn't get the apple logo for GreenNYC
[22:59:40] <umccullough_h> seems extremely petty of apple... i'm sure they wouldn't have bothered unless some anal tight-ass hadn't said something
[23:00:05] <JonathanThompson> Once again, umccullough_h, it's a matter of the law requiring them to speak up.
[23:00:13] <[Katisu]> at least it doesn't say "go green" to me
[23:00:17] <JonathanThompson> We'll see if this actually goes to a lawsuit,
[23:00:27] <umccullough_h> i think you only have to speak up if the trademark issue clearly infringes on your space
[23:00:34] <umccullough_h> which it doesn't in this case
[23:00:57] <umccullough_h> IIRC, you don't lose the trademark either - you just lose the ability to enforce it against the infringing party
[23:01:09] <umccullough_h> but i am probably wrong on that
[23:01:27] <[Katisu]> no, that sounds about right
[23:01:43] <JonathanThompson> Just a "What if?" what if Apple goes into something that New York is doing, or the other way around, in the distant future?
[23:02:05] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps as much as anything, this is standard CYA to always keep options as open as the law permits.
[23:03:16] <umccullough_h> still doesn't mean the logos are similar enough to be indistinguishable
[23:03:55] <umccullough_h> [Katisu] greenNYC is a play on words - Green Apple - that's all
[23:04:06] <EuanK> anyone tried the usb boot?
[23:04:12] <umccullough_h> mmlr has :)
[23:04:27] <[Katisu]> umccullough_h, yeah, still seem lame to me :P
[23:04:38] <umccullough_h> most things of that nature are ;)
[23:04:41] <EuanK> hmm
[23:04:47] <[Katisu]> just for JonathanThompson
[23:04:48] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[23:04:51] <[Katisu]> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23958838
[23:05:15] *** mmadia42 is now known as mmadia
[23:05:17] <umccullough_h> i gotta get off this laptop, it's driving me nutz
[23:05:18] <JonathanThompson> Yippee!  A decision will need to be made soon ;)
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[23:05:52] * [Katisu] wonders if the board will give a show of hands with only one finger up
[23:06:05] <JonathanThompson> "We approve!"  (middle finger extended)
[23:06:49] <umccullough_h> heh, microsoft is probably hoping they get ONLY the middle finger :)
[23:07:05] <JonathanThompson> What else would they get? ;)
[23:07:09] <Thom_Holwerda> damnit ze germans are beating switzerland :(
[23:07:10] <umccullough_h> the deal approved ;)
[23:07:40] * [Katisu] wonders if the day after Microsoft buys Yahoo, how many cranes will come crashing down on the building
[23:07:49] <JonathanThompson> Which one?
[23:08:08] <umccullough_h> ok, bye
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[23:08:17] <[Katisu]> which one are you working in?
[23:08:19] * JonathanThompson notes as of last visit, there's at least one crane active on the Redmond Microsoft campus, besides near the building he's working in now
[23:08:43] <JonathanThompson> I don't *think* it'd be possible currently for any crane to fall on the building I'm working in.
[23:08:59] <JonathanThompson> However, I do tend to defy the odds in many even more interesting ways than most.
[23:09:16] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps there'll be a freak tornado that makes a crane fly without wings.
[23:09:21] <umccullough> mm.. better
[23:12:43] <Barrett> ColumnListView
[23:12:46] <Barrett> is present
[23:12:54] <Barrett> in Haiku?
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[23:16:15] <CIA-50> stippi * r24812 /haiku/trunk/ (7 files in 5 dirs):
[23:16:15] <CIA-50> Patch by Philippe Saint-Pierre:
[23:16:15] <CIA-50> * Implemented RLE compression for the boot splash images, resulting in
[23:16:15] <CIA-50>  smaller kernel and boot loader.
[23:16:15] <CIA-50> * Only the boot loader contains the RLE compressed images, the decompressed
[23:16:16] <CIA-50>  buffer for the icons is passed to the kernel via kernel args.
[23:20:18] <stpere> yay! :)
[23:21:01] <JonathanThompson> That should save a bit (or 32) of space.
[23:21:10] <JonathanThompson> And should also make booting slightly faster, too.
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[23:21:26] <JonathanThompson> (presuming you're not running on an ultra-slow CPU with faster I/O)
[23:22:06] <stpere> yeah
[23:22:45] * JonathanThompson wonders how much effort would be required to port Haiku to the iPhone
[23:23:02] <stpere> actually, it saves approx. 72K on the kernel
[23:23:21] <stpere> and 48 on the bootloader
[23:23:54] <stpere> it's my first implementation tho, stippi just gave me some ideas how to improve it even further
[23:24:16] <JonathanThompson> Like perhaps using his icon vector language?
[23:24:38] <stpere> hmm, more like separating the color channels
[23:24:39] <JonathanThompson> Though that *might* require a bit more code to decode...
[23:24:54] <stpere> so that gradients are more efficiently compressed
[23:25:44] <JonathanThompson> There'd be one issue that'd make it a bit of a challenge at the current state to port Haiku to the iPhone, though:
[23:25:50] <stpere> and storing the count as a negative number in case the data can't be compressed , etc...
[23:25:57] <JonathanThompson> No swapfile (you don't want to *really* use flash, do you?)
[23:26:17] <stpere> ah yes
[23:26:20] <stpere> that's a point
[23:26:23] <ddew|bofh> that's like the least of your worries :)
[23:26:25] <EuanK> neither would the iphone OS, so what does it matter
[23:26:26] <JonathanThompson> There's also 128 Meg of RAM.
[23:26:41] <EuanK> no wince's need swap AFAIK
[23:26:43] <JonathanThompson> Which shouldn't be an issue, if things are tightly written.
[23:27:01] <ddew|bofh> number one issue would probably be getting down to hardware directly
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[23:27:17] <JonathanThompson> At this time, I believe Haiku isn't optimized to run well on small memory configurations very  well.
[23:27:32] <JonathanThompson> I don't think that's as much of a problem as you think it is, ddew|bofh.
[23:27:38] <stippi> stability first, optimization later
[23:27:39] <JonathanThompson> Ask the iPhone Dev Team :D
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[23:27:46] <JonathanThompson> Absolutely, stippi.
[23:27:57] <JonathanThompson> If it isn't stable, it doesn't matter if it's a racecar.
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[23:28:21] <stippi> and it is in fact quite small footprint by todays standards... :-)
[23:28:31] <stippi> although you could argue that it isn't small for what it does...
[23:28:37] <JonathanThompson> I haven't built it in awhile: how well does it do these days in 256 megs real RAM?
[23:28:40] <stippi> it depends.
[23:28:54] <stippi> should do perfectly fine
[23:29:01] <ddew|bofh> JonathanThompson: you think Apple will allow an entirely open os to run on iPhone? or even AT&T etc
[23:29:01] <stippi> or do you mean the building itself?
[23:29:17] <JonathanThompson> I would put to the test this question: can it self-host and build itself with 256 megs RAM?
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[23:29:30] <stippi> JonathanThompson: No, I think not
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[23:29:44] <stippi> you will have a very hard time hosting a build on BeOS with those specs
[23:29:49] <JonathanThompson> ddew|bofh, unless Apple changes the hardware design notably (if they can) they can't change the option of existing hardware to run it.
[23:29:57] * JonathanThompson has done it
[23:30:16] <JonathanThompson> I was browsing the web and using IRC at the same time, too.
[23:30:20] <stippi> You can increase the swap in BeOS, at least you *have* to increase it from the default value if you want to build Haiku with 256 MB RAM
[23:30:29] <JonathanThompson> True.
[23:30:40] <JonathanThompson> But, it can do it successfully.
[23:30:41] <ddew|bofh> JonathanThompson: as long as you can get down to hardware and get a bootloader running i suppose anything's possible
[23:30:53] <JonathanThompson> ddew|bofh, that's already done.
[23:30:58] <stippi> and Haiku does not yet support a swap file
[23:31:15] <JonathanThompson> Not yet a specific OS bootloader other than to disable the hardware from rejecting unsigned images, but they've done it.
[23:31:16] <ddew|bofh> JonathanThompson: where?
[23:31:23] <stpere> it's a project for GSoc, I think
[23:31:42] <stippi> hi stpere!
[23:31:48] <JonathanThompson> http://www.iphone-dev.org/
[23:31:50] <stippi> yes, swap file support it
[23:31:53] <stippi> yes, swap file support is
[23:32:03] <stpere> hi!
[23:32:04] <stippi> thanks for your patch, stpere
[23:32:12] <ddew|bofh> cracking protection is a whole lot easier than actually doing a real bootloader
[23:32:17] <stippi> I wrote you a mail, have you read it yet?
[23:32:38] <JonathanThompson> If you have a disassembler, you can look at existing firmware, and it really won't be that hard.
[23:33:06] <stpere> yes, I'm going to implement your suggestions
[23:33:12] <stippi> ah, cool
[23:33:12] <stpere> good ideas
[23:34:05] <mmadia> yaaarrgh!  damn unmountable bfs partitions.
[23:34:07] <JonathanThompson> I predict there will be an iPhone version of Linux running in < 30 days, ddew|bofh.
[23:34:22] <stippi> stpere: are you a former BeOS coder, or have you just appeared recently?
[23:34:32] * mmadia dinner
[23:34:43] * JonathanThompson feeds mmadia to the cannibals as requested
[23:35:28] <stippi> stpere: ups... did I say something wrong?
[23:35:56] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps stpere is AFK: Away From Kitty :)
[23:35:58] <ddew|bofh> JonathanThompson: what they've done, as far as i can see, is to get to the apple bootloader and can run commands there. it's a step closer but many questions remain. like what else has apple stashed in there?
[23:36:25] <stippi> maybe he doesn't let himself get distracted by IRC as much as I do lately... :-)
[23:36:35] <JonathanThompson> ddew|bofh, they've completely unlocked the ability to put any code in there they want, including the baseband stuff, the lowest level stuff.
[23:36:43] <stippi> and just looks at a different workspace
[23:36:50] <JonathanThompson> That's entirely probable, stippi.
[23:36:59] <stpere> stippi: oh, I was afk
[23:37:00] <JonathanThompson> I need to be less distracted by IRC/BeShare myself.
[23:37:05] <JonathanThompson> Poor kitty!
[23:37:08] <stippi> :->
[23:37:13] <stpere> no, I just appeared recently
[23:37:16] <stippi> wow
[23:37:20] <stippi> that is awesome
[23:37:28] <stippi> actual new blood!
[23:37:29] * JonathanThompson notes stpere was born the day before yesterday
[23:37:40] <ddew|bofh> they unlocked the ability to upload non-signed code, sure. that's a _long_ way from running code barebone
[23:37:52] <stippi> stpere: You gotta tell us your story now!
[23:38:10] <stippi> for background:
[23:38:22] <geist> heh, iphone bootloader talk
[23:38:38] <JonathanThompson> I think ddew|bofh is a pessimist ;)
[23:38:59] <ddew|bofh> it's just my experience with similar problems talking :)
[23:39:02] <stippi> we have seen quite a few BeOS coders getting involved in Haiku development more recently after the progress was more visible and after ZETA died.
[23:39:10] * JonathanThompson notes ddew|bofh has problems talking
[23:39:24] <stippi> Some other new names have popped up since then, and this is a great sign I think.
[23:39:28] <stpere> I'm a self-teached coder, that went to college but didn't finished (due to medical issue - anxiety and stuff)
[23:39:47] <JonathanThompson> Wait, you aren't into software development for a living after that, are you?
[23:39:50] <stpere> I have a diploma in Natural Sciences and Computer technologies
[23:39:52] <stippi> stpere: how did you get interested in Haiku?
[23:39:57] <JonathanThompson> It's a high-anxiety profession...
[23:40:02] <stpere> I code in PHP for a living
[23:40:20] <stippi> hi geist! btw
[23:40:29] <stpere> oh, I installed BeOS PE long ago, in 2003 I think
[23:40:41] <JonathanThompson> Ah, you DO have mold on you :D
[23:40:46] <stippi> and it got you hooked! :-D
[23:40:48] <stpere> and followed status of the project when it was called OpenBeos
[23:40:53] <JonathanThompson> Or is that one spelled "mould" ...
[23:41:01] <stpere> then, I finally dared to get involved
[23:41:08] <stippi> very cool
[23:41:22] * JonathanThompson notes stpere must listen to Weird Al, and is following the advice of one of his songs from the 80's
[23:41:48] <bogomipz> which one would that be, jonathan?
[23:42:00] * JonathanThompson knew someone would ask!
[23:42:25] <JonathanThompson> "Dare to be Stupid" which was included on the "Transformers " movie soundtrack, though I couldn't remember hearing it in the movie itself.
[23:42:47] <JonathanThompson> There's a lot of people that would argue contributing to the rebirth of what'd be considered a dead niche OS as a stupid waste of time.
[23:43:10] <ddew|bofh> heh, i recognize that
[23:43:28] <bogomipz> the song or the stupidness?
[23:43:36] * JonathanThompson sings, "Put your head in a microwave, get yourself a tan!"
[23:43:46] <ddew|bofh> i've gotten tons of blank stares upon mention that i spend most of my spare time messing around an os that died almost 8 years ago :)
[23:43:56] <ddew|bofh> *upon mentioning
[23:44:03] <Thom_Holwerda> damnit ze germans, zey have won :(
[23:44:23] * JonathanThompson hands Thom_Holwerda a tissue bank donor
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[23:44:55] <Thom_Holwerda> switzerland did a nice comeback though, from 5 points down to only 1 point down
[23:45:18] <Thom_Holwerda> and scotland beaten by tyhe czech rep., wtf?!
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[23:46:38] <JonathanThompson> While getting my car serviced today, I got a pretty good look at the Saturn Astra...
[23:47:00] <JonathanThompson> It seems they mostly imported it unchanged, except for minor regulatory required details.
[23:53:26] *** Barrett is now known as Barrett666
[23:54:03] <Barrett666> why drivesetup isn't in the svn?
[23:54:14] <MindChild> Have you guys seen that Muppet Show clip witht he bloopers
[23:54:19] <MindChild> bloody hilarious
[23:54:23] <ddew|bofh> because it isn't finished yet?
[23:54:27] <MindChild> http://youtube.com/watch?v=3KANI2dpXLw
[23:54:28] <EuanK> Saturn?  is that as in Opel /Vauxhall?
[23:54:56] <JonathanThompson> Apparently they reused the Opel Astra design, with minor tweaks, in the US, EuanK.
[23:54:57] <DeadYak> drivesetup's in svn
[23:55:27] <EuanK> ah righty, Opels are called Vauxhall in the UK :)
[23:55:28] <ddew|bofh> figured he meant that it wasn't in the menud
[23:55:33] <ddew|bofh> *menus
[23:55:50] <EuanK> Deadyak, does it work though? :)
[23:56:16] <ddew|bofh> i've created filesystems with it
[23:56:27] <ddew|bofh> haven't dared create any partitions though :)
[23:56:40] <DeadYak> EuanK: sort of
[23:56:54] <EuanK> that's odd I just get an empty window, with garbage#
[23:59:15] <EuanK> DeadYak: I tried the USB boot
[23:59:21] <DeadYak> ah
[23:59:24] <DeadYak> any luck?
[23:59:35] <EuanK> nope, I get the same error message as with SATA!
[23:59:56] <EuanK> "can't find boot partitions"

   April 5, 2008  
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