April 4, 2008 
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April 4, 2008 [00:01:51] <mmadia> hi[00:02:00] <EuanK> hi there[00:02:21] *** wildur has quit IRC[00:02:22] <mmadia> how goes it?[00:02:39] <EuanK> not bad. must have got about 15 mins productive work night[00:02:45] <EuanK> more than usual :)[00:02:52] *** Thom_Holwerda has joined #haiku[00:03:09] <mmadia> real work or hobby work? : )[00:03:16] <EuanK> hobby[00:03:27] <EuanK> there's no way I'd do that much at work[00:03:39] <mmadia> hehe : D[00:05:22] <EuanK> #define ENCODER_INTERNAL_LVDS_ENUM_ID1 ( GRAPH_OBJECT_TYPE_ENCODER << OBJECT_TYPE_SHIFT |\[00:05:22] <EuanK> GRAPH_OBJECT_ENUM_ID1 << ENUM_ID_SHIFT |\[00:05:22] <EuanK> ENCODER_OBJECT_ID_INTERNAL_LVDS << OBJECT_ID_SHIFT)[00:05:48] <EuanK> gives compiler error: stray '\' in program[00:05:52] <EuanK> eh?[00:06:11] *** cherry` has quit IRC[00:06:16] *** Wiss_ has quit IRC[00:06:22] *** S|acky has joined #haiku[00:06:37] *** Wiss has joined #haiku[00:06:38] <S|acky> hello[00:06:39] <DeadYak> that looks fine to me.....[00:06:44] <Schmedly3D> EuanK: I had that problem building ODE on R5 the other day[00:06:45] *** procton has quit IRC[00:06:50] *** procton has joined #haiku[00:07:16] <EuanK> what'd u do to fix?[00:08:52] <Schmedly3D> Honestly I looked for a couple hours but I still haven't found a solution for it[00:09:02] <S|acky> idont have usb support any idias[00:09:08] <EuanK> is it a define that has lots of macros in it?[00:09:25] <Schmedly3D> it's specific to 2.95 though from what I've read[00:09:27] <EuanK> buy an add in card?[00:09:30] <EuanK> ahh[00:09:39] <EuanK> more brackets then I guess?[00:09:53] <Schmedly3D> I tried wrapping it up with no luck[00:10:07] <EuanK> I'll ask google then...[00:10:39] * mmadia shower[00:10:51] <EuanK> no thanks I'm fine :)[00:10:58] <S|acky> i have haiku in a partition in areal hardware[00:11:13] <S|acky> and my usb dont work any[00:11:19] <EuanK> what devices?[00:11:26] <S|acky> mouse[00:11:35] <S|acky> modem[00:11:50] <EuanK> mouse should work. doubt there's support for the modem.[00:11:54] <S|acky> and the mouse work on beos max[00:12:04] <EuanK> Haiku isn't beos max[00:12:08] <Schmedly3D> EuanK: the problem CAN be related to CR vs LF but I retyped that section and it still gave me problems[00:12:14] <S|acky> i know[00:12:18] <EuanK> try changing the settings for USB legacy support[00:12:38] <EuanK> Schmedly: I put it all on one line and it passed...[00:12:51] <S|acky> and the modem can be detectec[00:13:30] *** Nies has quit IRC[00:15:25] <burfi> I remember some change in backslash line break handling in recent gcc[00:15:58] <EuanK> don't we run ancient gcc though?[00:16:18] <EuanK> or is it sync with gcc 2.95 official?[00:17:02] <burfi> I know I had to remove backslashes once in some old code[00:17:16] <EuanK> yeah I'm doing that right now :_[00:17:18] <EuanK> *:)[00:17:21] *** S|acky has quit IRC[00:21:08] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:21:54] *** burfi has left #haiku[00:23:53] *** Gareth is now known as Morph[00:24:06] *** Morph is now known as Gareth[00:24:26] *** urnenfeld has left #haiku[00:32:22] *** Anon3057 has quit IRC[00:36:41] *** burfi has joined #haiku[00:42:45] <Schmedly3D> EuanK: Nice, I'll try it the same[00:43:05] <EuanK> still getting lots of wierd stuff[00:46:02] <burfi> Does Haiku yet support any currently on the shelf hardware which isn't Intel?[00:46:50] <EuanK> such as?[00:46:59] <EuanK> my system is 100% non intel?[00:47:16] <burfi> recent ATI or NV chipsets[00:47:21] <EuanK> AMD X2, ATI chipset, Ati graphics[00:47:45] <EuanK> not the latest graphics though, work in progress...[00:47:49] <EuanK> long work...[00:47:58] <burfi> I"ll decide between 780G and MC78 boards in two weeks[00:48:06] <burfi> *MCP78[00:48:37] *** Tonik has quit IRC[00:48:49] *** Tonik has joined #haiku[00:49:42] <DeadYak> burfi: my nforce4 works perfectly[00:50:43] <burfi> intel extreme crappics do no want[00:51:43] <burfi> nforce4 that't three generations behind?[00:52:16] <DeadYak> that box is a 2-3 years old A64 yeah[00:53:35] <burfi> I don't even expect any 3D. Just solid 2D and video overlay.[00:54:04] <DeadYak> burfi: I was referring to the chipset, I'm actually using a Radeon X800 PCIe for graphics[00:54:18] <DeadYak> SATA controller, ethernet and everything else work though[00:54:19] <Schmedly3D> burfi: If you're buying a mainboard, what does Extreme graphics have to do with it?[00:54:19] <EuanK> you shouldn't expect anything unless you actually want to help. IMHO[00:55:03] <burfi> err, 780G or Gf8200 IGP is more powerfull than I need already, actually[00:55:22] <burfi> not going to ever need discrete[00:55:44] <Schmedly3D> Gotcha[00:56:56] <burfi> O come on, expect meant "be perfectly happy" for now[00:56:58] <Schmedly3D> Even so, I'd hold out more hope for full graphics support from Intel before I would ATi or nVidia chipsets[00:57:50] <burfi> Can't contribute when I stare at a black screen. That's why I'm asking about drivers.[00:58:12] <Schmedly3D> I had Haiku running on a nForce4 430 (6150)[00:58:38] <EuanK> I'd be happy too to have the latest graphics cards working too, but I only spend every spare minute I have working on it making slow tedious progress...[00:59:49] <Schmedly3D> EuanK: Is there anything I can do to help?[01:00:28] *** ablyss has joined #haiku[01:00:39] <EuanK> nah still poking around with the basics. When I start checking in stuff others can contribute to sections more easily if they wanted.[01:00:56] <Schmedly3D> Are you working on any specific cards?[01:01:27] <EuanK> Radeon HD[01:03:03] <Schmedly3D> If I were to get one for testing, which ones do you NOT have? :)[01:04:19] *** uranium has joined #haiku[01:05:31] <EuanK> I have an X1250 (laptop), and X2600, so get an X3x00 if your brave, and want to do stuff in windows with it. eg games.[01:05:37] *** adamblokus has quit IRC[01:05:44] *** AnEvilYak has joined #haiku[01:05:54] <EuanK> don't expect anything soon though. Unless I loose my job, or become single :D[01:06:22] <Schmedly3D> Just making a mental note, is the 2600 too close to the 2400 to matter?[01:08:13] <Schmedly3D> hmm yeah there's plenty of cheap HD3xx0 now too[01:08:32] <EuanK> yeah too close[01:08:40] *** uranium has quit IRC[01:08:53] <EuanK> feel free to to the whole driver if you want! hehe[01:09:26] *** uranium has joined #haiku[01:09:29] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC[01:12:41] <Schmedly3D> If we can coordinate, I'd certainly give it a try[01:13:16] <EuanK> well in a few weeks I might have stuff that needs done.[01:14:05] <EuanK> What I really need is people who can compare our code to linux, and add tracing to dump registers, and find where things differ so we can fix it.[01:14:38] <EuanK> it's not rocket science, just time consuming[01:14:48] <Schmedly3D> I'll be around whenever you get to that point[01:14:56] *** Stargater has quit IRC[01:15:11] <EuanK> but yeah loads of files needing rewritten...[01:15:11] <uranium> hello... just came, sorry what were talking about?[01:15:18] <EuanK> radeon hd[01:15:29] <uranium> radeon HD support on haiku?[01:15:38] <EuanK> yes[01:15:42] <uranium> by porting linux driver?[01:15:45] <EuanK> yes[01:16:09] <EuanK> I'm doing the radeon branch though, not radeonhd[01:16:19] <uranium> about the porting things... what is the most complicated task?[01:16:22] <EuanK> as it should fit into our existing architecture a nit easier[01:16:29] <EuanK> that it can't be ported.[01:16:41] <EuanK> it needs to be "converted" really.[01:16:59] <uranium> do you mean, recode from scratch?[01:17:22] <EuanK> no not really. it's more rewiring functions to use different structures[01:17:40] <EuanK> if you look at say the bios code, you can recognise a lot of it as being the same as X.[01:18:00] <Schmedly3D> wow I could actually get a 3850 in AGP[01:18:18] <uranium> so how about the underlying layer itself, like kernel, does it support?[01:18:36] <EuanK> the conversion involves removing and recoding anything specific to xserver[01:18:52] <EuanK> no all interfaces to memory and hardware are recoded[01:19:21] <uranium> btw Haiku have something like xserver inside?[01:19:26] <EuanK> our driver is also really two parts. the hardware interface in the driver, and the accelerant that does all the 'work'[01:19:29] <EuanK> no[01:19:32] <EuanK> nothing like it[01:19:35] <uranium> nice[01:19:36] <DeadYak> uranium: Haiku doesn't use X11 at all if that's what you mean[01:19:51] <DeadYak> totally in house windowing server[01:20:15] <uranium> but it has something graphic server which the function is like X11, or its like windows, the rendering are parts of kernel?[01:20:49] <DeadYak> the windowing server is all userspace[01:20:58] <DeadYak> the only part that lives in the kernel is the kernel portion of the graphics driver[01:20:59] <EuanK> no not really. there's a doc called the bebook, you should take a look at that, it would give you an idea what goes on[01:21:02] <DeadYak> which mostly inits the cards and sets up the registers[01:21:09] <uranium> ok[01:21:16] <DeadYak> the accelerant lives in userspace and is loaded by the app_server[01:21:22] <DeadYak> which is responsible for drawing and window management[01:21:24] <stpere> anyone get a failed build with latest rev?[01:21:26] <DeadYak> and various other things[01:21:30] <DeadYak> stpere: not me, what's the error?[01:21:44] <stpere> I fixed actually[01:21:50] <uranium> on the bebook which part is it?[01:22:04] <uranium> about the architecture used by Haiku.[01:22:06] <EuanK> kernel drivers, or appserver?[01:22:14] <stpere> when I try to build a vmware image, it lacks a -f into the paramater of vmdkimage tool[01:22:22] <DeadYak> ah[01:22:53] <stpere> oh, that's only true when -c is also set[01:23:03] <stpere> (whic is the default)[01:23:45] <stpere> should I prepare a patch for something that simple?[01:25:58] <uranium> btw the server things (like app. server, storage server, net server...) are they running on separate process than kernel?[01:26:11] *** dchis has quit IRC[01:26:19] <EuanK> no userspace processes[01:26:32] <EuanK> eh sorry, yes[01:26:35] *** dchis has joined #haiku[01:26:39] <EuanK> all userspace, not kernel[01:26:54] <EuanK> network is in kernel now though[01:27:08] <uranium> so the rendering part of GUI is in app. server ?[01:27:16] <EuanK> yes[01:27:29] <EuanK> interface does the gui objects (buttons etc)[01:27:59] <uranium> we have "kit" and "server" whats the difference ?[01:28:03] <uranium> "kit" means API ?[01:28:19] <EuanK> yes more or less[01:28:29] <EuanK> or library[01:28:43] <EuanK> or collections of stuff related[01:29:57] <uranium> and the driver? is it like linux could be linked or loadable module or is it like kernel extension ?[01:30:14] <EuanK> um their all loadable if memory serves me right[01:30:20] <EuanK> never static linked[01:30:27] <uranium> nice[01:30:28] <EuanK> never monolithic[01:30:32] <EuanK> yes very :)[01:30:33] <uranium> good[01:30:41] <ari-free> kit must be a british thing like "I need to put on my kit"[01:30:41] <uranium> i hate monolithic[01:31:14] <EuanK> perhaps :)[01:31:19] <EuanK> maybe french though..[01:31:29] <DeadYak> there's no monolithic drivers indeed[01:31:31] <EuanK> or as in SDK[01:31:38] <DeadYak> hell, even our network stack's a loadable module[01:31:39] <ari-free> whereas we americans say "time to lock and load"[01:32:24] <uranium> the network stack is from scratch?[01:32:33] <ari-free> yak i thought the network is in the kernel now[01:32:41] <DeadYak> ari-free: it is, but it's a loadable module regardless[01:32:46] <DeadYak> ari-free: it's not part of the kernel core[01:33:02] <DeadYak> uranium: yes[01:33:06] <EuanK> just another driver so to speal[01:33:09] <EuanK> *speak[01:33:15] <ari-free> but not like BeOS r5 either[01:33:20] <uranium> does the performance good?[01:33:21] <uranium> :D[01:33:29] <DeadYak> ari-free: R5's was completely in userspace and it wasn't very well written[01:33:31] *** clsk has quit IRC[01:33:59] <stpere> patch sent on the ML[01:34:20] <ari-free> that was in the day when microkernel was a new religion[01:34:33] <ari-free> i wonder what ever happened to qnx[01:34:36] <uranium> i think its hybrid kernel[01:34:48] <zlominus> I have a question ... I would like to fix the "easy bug" concerning about dialog not respecting font sizes so it does not resize well. I have doubts about the preformance of implemntation.[01:34:50] <zlominus> Should I resize the view dinamicaly (calling it in "pulse" function that ticks and updates the fields as memory and uptime (which causes the problem), or should I set the maximum[01:34:50] <zlominus> text length in init function (constructor of View) and then update the view size according to font size? I mean if 1st is not preformance wise (checking if resize is needed on every tick)[01:34:51] <EuanK> qnx retreated to commercial embedded land[01:35:05] <stpere> hi zlominus[01:35:17] <ari-free> they had a bit of a bump from beos fans for a while[01:35:19] <EuanK> no idea[01:36:43] <DeadYak> ari-free: BeOS was never even close to being a microkernel[01:36:51] <DeadYak> ari-free: modular, certainly, micro, no way[01:37:20] <ari-free> but it was considered the ideal...hence networking in user space[01:37:33] <DeadYak> zlominus: you'd probably want to be calculating the size of everything in AttachedToWindow() actually[01:37:54] <DeadYak> ari-free: that was more likely done due to being in a hurry to get it out[01:38:02] <uranium> why we are not using XNU or other already developed kernel?[01:38:15] <DeadYak> because design-wise they don't fit what we want[01:38:25] <DeadYak> also I might note, XNU is not exactly fast.[01:38:32] <zlominus> DeadYak: ok, I'll check it, as am not very familiar with BeAPI, but form what i read till now I like it veru much :)[01:38:53] <uranium> so the haiku kernel would be faster than XNU?[01:38:54] <DeadYak> zlominus: np[01:38:59] <DeadYak> uranium: depends on the task[01:39:09] <uranium> which task is it better?[01:39:16] <DeadYak> uranium: Mach/XNU is known for being quite slow at a bunch of things because of all the extra context switches its design requires[01:39:44] <uranium> so is it with haiku i think, all servers running in separate process?[01:39:53] <DeadYak> yes, they're all userspace processes[01:40:05] <uranium> yes so it will huge context switches too[01:40:14] <DeadYak> not as much as you'd think[01:40:21] <uranium> oh really?[01:40:34] <uranium> so its better?[01:40:43] <DeadYak> depends who you ask[01:40:55] <uranium> i dont ask linus...[01:41:10] <DeadYak> the aim of this project originally was to recreate BeOS R5 in any case, and NewOS was pretty much the closest thing out there to a BeOS-like kernel[01:41:24] <DeadYak> so that's what was chosen as the basis[01:41:31] <DeadYak> also there was the desire to use the MIT license[01:41:39] <DeadYak> which pretty much rules out a bunch of kernels right there[01:41:50] <uranium> have anyone do some benchmark or comparison?[01:41:52] <EuanK> us be folk like to be different...[01:41:58] <ari-free> but newos wasn't complete at the time. that meant haiku had to really learn a lot for themselves[01:42:08] <EuanK> still isn't :)[01:42:09] <DeadYak> uranium: that'd be more or less irrelevant at this point, Haiku's not even vaguely optimized yet[01:42:15] <uranium> ic[01:42:43] <uranium> but design wise, most developer certain that it will be competitive performance wise?[01:42:51] <DeadYak> yes.[01:43:07] <DeadYak> besides, for a desktop responsiveness is more important than raw I/O performance anyways[01:43:08] <EuanK> there will always be +'s and -'s[01:43:13] *** mmadia has quit IRC[01:43:14] <DeadYak> very different tradeoffs from a server kernel[01:43:26] <uranium> is there any article talking about the internal architecture of Haiku?[01:43:29] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[01:44:32] <zlominus> DeadYak: when AttachedToWindow() is being called, and how often? I can't seem to find anything in BeBook[01:44:41] <DeadYak> zlominus: it's a BView method[01:44:50] <DeadYak> zlominus: and it's called when the view is added to the window[01:45:32] <ari-free> you obviously need good I/O if you're talking about fast bootups[01:45:40] <DeadYak> ari-free: not necessarily[01:45:48] <DeadYak> ari-free: Linux has *very* fast I/O and it boots slow as shit :P[01:45:59] <uranium> yeah shit[01:46:16] *** petterhj- has joined #haiku[01:46:29] <DeadYak> ari-free: that's more a matter of how you organize your boot process[01:46:44] <DeadYak> and how much stuff you're loading[01:46:50] <ari-free> i thought it was about I/O. app startups too[01:46:57] <DeadYak> not really[01:46:59] <pyCube> c64 had totally rad bootup time.. therefor it must have had insane i/o performance[01:47:07] <pyCube> :-p[01:47:14] <DeadYak> go go gadget BASIC ROM[01:47:19] <ari-free> haha[01:47:30] <pyCube> DeadYak: obviously the pinnacle of computing[01:47:47] <DeadYak> pyCube: hey, don't diss the c64 :D[01:47:48] <burfi> wants HaikuBIOS[01:47:57] <pyCube> ..as made clear by the boot time[01:48:13] <pyCube> DeadYak: wouldnt dream of it[01:48:19] <ari-free> but app startups on the c64 were dreadful[01:48:33] <EuanK> no I had a 1541[01:48:34] <pyCube> was commenting on how great a measure of computing 'boot time' is[01:48:34] * DeadYak lost way too many hours of his life to typing up pages of game listings[01:48:41] <DeadYak> pyCube: I know :) just being silly[01:48:49] <DeadYak> EuanK: 1541 + accelerator card helped enormously :)[01:49:04] <pyCube> Action Replay cart..[01:49:11] <pyCube> best piece of HW ever made[01:49:17] <EuanK> hey I just had the disk drive. :([01:49:32] <Schmedly3D> I always wanted a fast load cart :|[01:49:51] * mmadia needs someone from bezilla : ([01:50:32] <ari-free> now firefox is the slowest startup for any app in the universe[01:50:36] <pyCube> the action replay not only kicked ass as a fastload cart, but it had nice utils like an assembler/disassembler that lived outside of precious c64 ram and so on[01:50:48] <DeadYak> pyCube: I forget what the brand name of mine was :/[01:51:00] <DeadYak> pyCube: I just remember it was a black cartridge with a green sticker label[01:51:34] <EuanK> and a button[01:51:37] <Schmedly3D> Makes me want to dig up the C64.... sigh[01:51:38] <DeadYak> that too[01:51:50] <pyCube> DeadYak: the actionreplay also let you browse memeory for sprites and such so you could 'rip' them out or mod in place if you wanted[01:51:51] <EuanK> I still have mine in a box in the loft :)[01:52:01] <DeadYak> pyCube: nice :)[01:52:05] <EuanK> poke 53280,0[01:52:08] <ari-free> I had a frogger cartridge[01:52:15] <EuanK> poke 53281,1[01:52:45] <ari-free> and that epyx joystick. nobody makes joysticks like that anymore[01:52:48] <pyCube> EuanK: in mlx: ldx #$00; stx $d020;[01:52:49] <pyCube> heh[01:53:10] <EuanK> never got there: )[01:53:32] <ari-free> http://www.cedmagic.com/tech-info/remote-control/epyx-500xj-joystick.html[01:53:45] <pyCube> a 2000 ldx #$00; stx $d020; inx; jmp $2000;[01:53:48] <pyCube> hehe[01:53:59] <EuanK> hehe[01:54:10] <ari-free> you hold it in your left hand and use your right hand to move the stick[01:54:16] <DeadYak> you guys remember 6502 asm far too well :P[01:54:39] <pyCube> my fav joystick was: http://www.mousevomit.com/gallery.php?page=a015[01:54:48] <pyCube> sturdy[01:54:53] <EuanK> I've managed to never need asm, except for the occasional hacking. lucky me[01:54:59] <CIA-47> bonefish * r24785 /haiku/trunk/src/tools/vmdkimage/vmdkimage.cpp: Fixed incorrect getopt() specification: -c and -H don't have arguments.[01:55:00] <pyCube> could even survive summer games[01:55:09] <ari-free> but you can't hold it in your hand[01:55:33] <ari-free> how can any joystick survive summer games[01:55:34] <uranium> is it real, Haiku will use SVG GUI ?[01:55:49] <pyCube> i thought it was suspicious that epyx made joystick killer games, and sold joysticks.. hmmmm[01:55:56] <EuanK> lol[01:56:14] <Schmedly3D> I never made that connection.. but now that you mention it[01:56:15] <ari-free> ohhh now it all makes sense[01:56:21] <DeadYak> uranium: uh...no.[01:56:34] <uranium> why not?[01:56:37] *** daste has quit IRC[01:56:39] <uranium> it would be nice[01:56:48] <ari-free> too slow[01:56:49] <DeadYak> because SVG is totally not designed for that?[01:56:54] <DeadYak> SVG is slow as hell[01:56:57] <uranium> ic[01:56:58] <EuanK> icons are a subset of SVG though[01:57:05] <DeadYak> EuanK: Haiku icons are HVIF actually[01:57:08] <DeadYak> not SVG-related at all[01:57:20] <EuanK> well you know same sort of thing :)[01:57:34] <uranium> so does haiku have "new thing" feature?[01:58:36] <ari-free> hvif are vector icons[01:58:52] <DeadYak> ari-free: yes, but they're not SVG :)[01:59:07] <DeadYak> no need to ram XML everywhere[01:59:27] <stpere> gah, my patch was wrong :)[01:59:40] <pyCube> oh come on..xml will end hunger and war[01:59:45] <ari-free> I know the mozilla people were getting tired of all the calls for MNG so they came up with their own animated format[02:00:01] <pyCube> ..at least thats what some java devs told me once[02:00:20] <ari-free> http://wiki.mozilla.org/APNG_Specification[02:01:25] <burfi> uranium: live queries and pervasive multi-threading - not new, as BeOS has it, but never attempted by anyone else since then[02:01:44] *** LaceySnr has joined #haiku[02:02:14] <LaceySnr> hi People[02:02:27] <LaceySnr> can somebody confirm if my email made it to the list about 10 mins ago ? (haiku dev)[02:02:42] <DeadYak> name?[02:02:59] <LaceySnr> Matt Lacey (LaceySnr at gmail dot com)[02:03:05] <DeadYak> not seen it[02:03:21] <LaceySnr> hmm[02:03:28] <DeadYak> I'm assuming you're subscribed to the list, right?[02:03:32] <LaceySnr> I had a suspicion my emails weren't getting through[02:03:33] <LaceySnr> yeah[02:03:39] <LaceySnr> do you receive emails you post to the list?[02:04:02] <ari-free> are there any new ideas in haiku on the user end?[02:04:05] <DeadYak> that might be configurable...[02:04:09] <LaceySnr> the one I sent had the subject "Crash as desktop appears - how to debug?"[02:04:26] *** petterhj has quit IRC[02:04:45] <DeadYak> not seen that one[02:04:48] <DeadYak> what kind of crash?[02:05:05] <EuanK> the mailing list sometimes takes ages to kick in[02:05:12] <LaceySnr> hmm - gonna have to find out why my emails don't make it - thought it was odd that I never get any responses[02:05:13] <LaceySnr> ah ok[02:05:20] <LaceySnr> well I've finally managed to boot natively[02:05:29] <LaceySnr> had to turn on AHCI in my bios as I've got a SATA drive[02:05:35] <EuanK> add the address to your address book if it's webmail, or if you have spam filters[02:05:49] <DeadYak> what revision are you trying with?[02:06:00] <LaceySnr> EuanK - I receieve emails, just can't seem to send them to the list![02:06:05] <DeadYak> and what was the crash?[02:06:17] <EuanK> that's odd[02:06:18] <LaceySnr> I forget which number it was - updated about 3 hours ago and built[02:06:35] <LaceySnr> basically as soon as the blue bg and mouse cursor appear the system just stops dead[02:06:41] <LaceySnr> can't even use F12 to get to KDL[02:06:53] <DeadYak> tried any safe mode options?[02:07:02] <EuanK> got a serial cable?[02:07:08] <LaceySnr> yeah I tried all sorts (thought it might have been SMP)[02:07:11] <LaceySnr> unfortunately no serial cable[02:07:19] <LaceySnr> booting safe mode got me to a terminal fine and dandy[02:07:22] <DeadYak> the main ones I'd be curious about are SMP and BIOS calls.[02:07:27] <DeadYak> possibly graphics driver[02:07:30] <EuanK> what video card?[02:07:36] <LaceySnr> GeForce 8600 GT[02:07:48] <EuanK> yeah I would try vesa mode[02:08:29] <LaceySnr> i thought maybe my bios was causing boot issues before I tried AHCI - It's got a quirk where I have to set the secondary IDE channel to "None" to get the DVD drive to appear in any OS, but have to set it to "CDROM" to boot from the thing[02:08:52] <LaceySnr> EuanK: I tried vesa :( does the logging get written to disk anywhere (i.e. what would be dumped on the serial port)[02:09:10] <EuanK> /var/log/syslog[02:09:26] <LaceySnr> cool, I'll check that out when I get home from work[02:09:34] <LaceySnr> guess it's something quite fundamental to stop F12 working[02:11:18] <LaceySnr> I was really excited to see it finally boot and then that was a bit of a kick in the teeth :)[02:11:43] <EuanK> hehe[02:11:52] <EuanK> try disabling USB[02:12:19] <EuanK> or ethernet, and try a VESA mode[02:12:34] <LaceySnr> cool - I'll give those a go later too[02:12:50] <LaceySnr> really want to help out and do some dev, bit easier now I've got the build environment setup in linux[02:13:04] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[02:13:06] <LaceySnr> had it running in beos max in a vm but it was really slow for svn + building[02:13:42] <EuanK> yeah that is pretty slow[02:14:03] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[02:14:22] <LaceySnr> I can't install max natively because the mouse + keyboard don't work in the installer and I've only just managed to get WPA working in linux so I can use that[02:14:56] <EuanK> yeah WPA was a pain for me too, had to use the ndis wrapper[02:15:03] *** ozy` has quit IRC[02:15:44] <MYOB> anyone seen Korli recently?[02:16:05] <CIA-47> bga * r24786 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/ (Jamfile bison/ flex/): Removed bison and flex as both are now part of the development package.[02:16:07] <EuanK> no don't think so[02:17:00] <MYOB> hrm[02:17:59] *** Vampyre has quit IRC[02:18:03] <MYOB> get this for annoying - due to the protrusions on both cards, I can decide between wifi or external sound on this laptop but not both, despit having dual slots...[02:18:28] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC[02:18:44] <EuanK> wifi[02:19:07] <EuanK> or you could get a usb wifi dongle for a tenner[02:19:15] <MYOB> unlikely to work with BeOS ;)[02:19:24] <MYOB> neither does the sound I think, hence the need to find Korli[02:19:25] *** Vampyre has joined #haiku[02:21:53] <MYOB> the onboard sound in this only works via OSS and is so jumpy its unlistenable...[02:22:41] *** SchmedlyHaiku has joined #haiku[02:23:43] <EuanK> who needs sound right now anyway?[02:24:24] *** Andrew|26m has joined #Haiku[02:27:28] *** Vampyre has quit IRC[02:27:55] <uranium> anyone have Haiku presentation video as in google with better quality?[02:28:20] <EuanK> it was liked on the haiku-os front page I think[02:28:27] <EuanK> old news article maybe?[02:28:35] <uranium> ok[02:28:59] <LaceySnr> who's in charge of the mailing lists? would be nice to get this resolved so I can actually post to it :)[02:29:11] <EuanK> freelists[02:29:39] <EuanK> there are people here with admin rights, but no idea what they could do.[02:30:55] *** Vampyre has joined #haiku[02:32:39] <DeadYak> LaceySnr: you don't get a bounce message?[02:33:12] <LaceySnr> nope[02:33:14] <LaceySnr> don't get anything[02:33:26] <LaceySnr> I kinda just assumed that I didn't see my own messages and nobody was ever replying to me[02:33:55] <EuanK> try unsubscribing?[02:33:57] <LaceySnr> was a bit disappointed when I pointed out a break in the build the other day! missing forward declaration in the media player playlist[02:34:02] <LaceySnr> yeah I'll give that a go[02:34:16] <CIA-47> bga * r24787 /haiku/trunk/src/data/etc/keymaps/Brazilian(ABNT2).keymap:[02:34:16] <CIA-47> Keymap Pack by ITO, Takayuki and licensed as public domain.[02:37:47] <LaceySnr> >> stats haiku-development[02:37:48] <LaceySnr> You are not a member of list 'haiku-development'[02:38:20] <EuanK> yet you still get messages?[02:38:44] <EuanK> do you have a different receive address to your reply-to? or go through any mail proxies?[02:39:00] <LaceySnr> nope - just using gmail[02:39:02] <LaceySnr> I'll unsubscribe[02:39:12] <EuanK> yeah do that[02:39:18] <LaceySnr> tried subscribing after it said I wasn't a member and it failed because I was already a member :)[02:40:11] <EuanK> hehe who knows?[02:40:45] <CIA-47> anevilyak * r24788 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/aboutsystem/AboutSystem.cpp:[02:40:45] <CIA-47> * AboutSystem now shows cache usage together with total/available mem.[02:40:45] <CIA-47> * Small cleanups.[02:41:26] <DeadYak> LaceySnr: is gmail the only addr you've subscribed from? were you by any chance using gmail to check some other ISP account or something along those lines?[02:41:56] <LaceySnr> I do use it to check another account but I only subscribed from gmail[02:42:26] <LaceySnr> right I'm unsubscribed[02:42:32] <LaceySnr> will try and subscribe again[02:43:02] *** Androidz has quit IRC[02:43:30] <LaceySnr> bah it won't let me now because I tried 5 mins ago[02:44:20] <DeadYak> :/[02:47:01] <LaceySnr> I'll give it another go in a little while[02:47:36] <LaceySnr> at least I don't feel like a complete loser now I know that it wasn't just everyone ignoring me[02:48:14] <EuanK> well you would wonder where your posts went :)[02:49:01] *** mmadia is now known as mmadia_[02:51:34] <DeadYak> stpere: still awake?[02:51:43] *** MYOB has quit IRC[02:53:35] *** AnEvilYak has joined #haiku[02:53:48] <EuanK> I'm not[02:53:54] <EuanK> 2am bad![02:54:15] *** ozy` has joined #haiku[02:55:34] <DeadYak> EuanK: lol[02:55:41] <DeadYak> EuanK: no rest for the weary? :P[02:55:52] <EuanK> I'm going to regret it tomorrow[02:55:57] <EuanK> / today[02:56:04] <EuanK> not as young as I used to be[02:56:15] <LaceySnr> lol[02:56:16] <LaceySnr> EuanK:[02:56:17] <LaceySnr> I do that[02:56:24] <LaceySnr> tend to have a week of staying up every night til 2[02:56:34] <LaceySnr> then the next week I'm dead and have to go to bed at 10 every night[02:56:44] <EuanK> yeah I got to be up at 6...[02:56:52] <EuanK> right I'm off[02:56:54] <EuanK> nite all[02:57:00] <DeadYak> night Euan :)[02:57:02] <DeadYak> thanks again :)[02:57:07] <LaceySnr> night[02:57:12] *** EuanK has left #haiku[02:57:19] *** mib_ucv7vxy6 has joined #haiku[02:57:35] <LaceySnr> DeadYak: I just sent a test email to the list - have you seen it?[02:57:36] *** petterhj- has quit IRC[02:58:09] *** Tonik has quit IRC[02:58:18] <DeadYak> LaceySnr: not yet, freelists can lag though[02:58:30] <LaceySnr> ok[02:58:48] <DeadYak> LaceySnr: silly question, you don't have gmail set to send mail as a different return address do you?[02:58:53] <LaceySnr> I take it I'm not being super stupid and that haiku-development at freelists dot org is the correct address yes?[02:58:54] <DeadYak> in http://mail.google.com/mail/#settings/accounts that is[02:59:02] <DeadYak> that is correct[02:59:56] <LaceySnr> ah crap - it's because it's sending them as from LaceySnr at googlemail dot com[03:00:13] <DeadYak> thought it might be something like that :)[03:00:28] <LaceySnr> damn you Google![03:00:41] <LaceySnr> I must have sent about 10 emails in the last month or two thinking nobody gave a crap :)[03:00:57] <DeadYak> I have seen your name somewhere I thought...[03:00:59] <DeadYak> *searches*[03:01:09] <DeadYak> not in my email...[03:01:13] <LaceySnr> possibly on the site[03:01:13] <DeadYak> where have I seen it..[03:01:16] <LaceySnr> have commented once or two[03:01:17] <LaceySnr> twice[03:01:18] <LaceySnr> *[03:01:21] <DeadYak> that could be[03:01:34] <LaceySnr> sorry I keep posting multiple lines - got linux terminal syndrome[03:01:41] <DeadYak> no worries[03:02:33] *** uranium has quit IRC[03:03:39] <LaceySnr> I just sent another test post but put SPAM in the subject so as not to annoy people, in retrospect it might not have been the smartest choice if the list has a filter[03:04:54] <DeadYak> not seen it as of yet...[03:05:18] <DeadYak> freelists isn't always a speed demon though[03:06:26] <LaceySnr> I'll give it a while then try again without 'SPAM' in the subject[03:06:34] *** Wiss_ has joined #haiku[03:09:23] <Al2O3> now that i have the haiku.image (with dev tools included i do hope) built, how to burn to CD for native hardware install? OS X disk utility, or linux tool of some sort that handles .image files. Have CDR, just need next step :)[03:09:48] <Al2O3> btw, the haiku.image looks to be 100 mb in size.[03:09:50] <DeadYak> there were CD instructions on the mailing list somewhere iirc[03:09:55] <Al2O3> so does the .vmdk[03:10:02] <Al2O3> ok, thanks dead.[03:10:06] <Al2O3> I'll fish around.[03:10:13] <Al2O3> I didn't see them in the Ryan instructions onlien.[03:10:20] <Al2O3> may have overlooked them.[03:10:23] <DeadYak> they aren't[03:10:27] <DeadYak> boot CD was a relatively recent thing[03:10:27] <Al2O3> didn't think so.[03:10:30] <Al2O3> ok[03:10:35] <DeadYak> and it doesn't really work that great yet[03:10:38] <DeadYak> ~10 minute boot time for instance[03:10:42] <DeadYak> + various errors[03:11:01] <Al2O3> well, it will boot from the burned cd and then allow me to install as native image onto a HD, no?[03:11:05] <Al2O3> I want a native install.[03:11:16] <Al2O3> (whatever the hell that means, just made that up)[03:11:26] <DeadYak> if you're building from linux, why not have it do the install directly?[03:11:35] <Al2O3> could do that I guess.[03:11:38] <DeadYak> easier[03:11:53] <Al2O3> ok, I'll try that also, but I do want to do all angles, just for yucks.[03:11:55] <Al2O3> experience, and pain[03:11:58] <Al2O3> then I'm sure I'll appreciate the easy way more :)[03:12:05] <Al2O3> <-- gluten for punishement apparently[03:12:13] <DeadYak> the CD isn't really an angle anyone's put realistic effort into, someone did some quick hacks to get something to boot and that's about it[03:12:37] <Al2O3> I was actually going to burn to CD, and then wipe linux[03:12:38] <Al2O3> :)[03:12:48] <Al2O3> but hey, I have another 40 gig, so I'll just use that one[03:13:10] <Al2O3> so this thing as part of the jam scripts can just be told to install onto a HD directly?[03:13:29] <Al2O3> does partition, format and install?[03:13:34] <Al2O3> prett slick if so.[03:13:51] <burfi> yes, just change UserBuildConfig[03:13:57] <burfi> two lines there[03:14:28] *** Wiss has quit IRC[03:14:41] *** Wiss_ is now known as Wiss[03:15:03] <Al2O3> in .../trunk/build/jam I suspect[03:15:19] <Al2O3> I see a .ReadMe and a .sample[03:15:23] <burfi> yes[03:15:26] <Al2O3> ok[03:15:31] <Al2O3> take sampel and make it nonsample?[03:15:40] <LaceySnr> yeah - but change it to match your system[03:15:40] <burfi> copy and rename[03:15:41] <Al2O3> and then the system uses your config.[03:15:44] <Al2O3> thanks[03:15:46] <Al2O3> ok[03:15:56] <LaceySnr> you don't want it formatting the wrong partition[03:16:13] <DeadYak> LaceySnr: still nada btw[03:16:27] <Al2O3> LaceySnr: most definitely not.[03:16:57] <Al2O3> linux has a partition ID tool I ssupect so I can find out the new drive I put in (another 40 gig), and then use that info in the UserBuildConfig file.[03:17:18] <burfi> fdisk[03:17:37] <Al2O3> tx[03:17:40] <DeadYak> Al2O3: it's just the path to the /dev/sdax corresponding to it[03:17:53] <DeadYak> HAIKU_IMAGE_PATH = /dev ; HAIKU_IMAGE_NAME = sda3 ; in my case for instance[03:18:05] <burfi> /sbin/fdisk[03:18:57] <LaceySnr> DeadYak: just sent a new one[03:19:05] <DeadYak> k[03:23:06] *** dchis has quit IRC[03:24:29] <CIA-47> bonefish * r24789 /haiku/trunk/src/tools/vmdkimage/vmdkimage.cpp:[03:24:29] <CIA-47> * Used the original size for vmdk Extent Description, not the[03:24:29] <CIA-47> sector-aligned one.[03:24:29] <CIA-47> * Truncated the image a little too short.[03:35:45] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC[03:46:39] *** umccullough_work has joined #haiku[03:46:48] <umccullough_work> busy busy :)[03:48:08] <SchmedlyHaiku> Urias umm.. Heap![03:48:25] <SchmedlyHaiku> wait that's actually funny in a geek way[03:48:35] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku[03:49:28] * DeadYak pets umccullough_work[03:50:01] <umccullough_work> Schmedly3D, my parents listened to Uriah Heap before I was born.. go figure[03:50:20] * umccullough_work doesn't really know the origin of his name otherwise[03:50:40] <pyCube> me heap tired... me heap want go homoe[03:50:57] <SchmedlyHaiku> Tellum pale face true story about red man[03:51:30] <SchmedlyHaiku> Sorry, the kids watch Peter Pan like... all the time[03:51:33] <ari-free> i want to stack the heap[03:51:54] <LaceySnr> my mate is off his face: http://rafb.net/p/zdwoDb14.html[03:51:55] <umccullough_work> guess it's "Uriah Heep"[03:51:58] <ari-free> that will be this year's latest cool expression[03:53:07] <mmadia_> SchmedlyHaiku i've " because because be-caaause, of all of the wonderful things he does" on loop in my head thx to my nephew ; )[03:53:53] <ari-free> "it's a small world after all"[03:54:00] <SchmedlyHaiku> You didn't go there[03:54:20] <SchmedlyHaiku> goot thing I'm listening to New Kids on the Block![03:54:37] <pyCube> still freaks me out that i am an employee of that mousey empire[03:54:43] <ari-free> whiest boys you know![03:55:12] <SchmedlyHaiku> I tease, actually it's Radiohead - Karma Police[03:55:28] <SchmedlyHaiku> either way, I'm impervious to that invasive song[03:55:32] <ari-free> whitest kids you know[03:55:58] <SchmedlyHaiku> pyCube: Interesting, where do you work?[03:56:24] * JonathanThompson meows in Venusian into the channel[03:56:47] <SchmedlyHaiku> my excommunicated father-in-law used to work for the Mouse in Orlando[03:56:48] <pyCube> SchmedlyHaiku: ImageMovers Digital[03:57:04] <SchmedlyHaiku> oh neat[03:57:23] <ari-free> wow that's even bigger than working for the Big Cheese[03:57:38] * LaceySnr works for Murdoch :([03:57:45] * JonathanThompson wonders who the Big Cheese is[03:57:46] <SchmedlyHaiku> RUPERT![03:57:46] <pyCube> haha[03:57:49] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku[03:57:54] * pyCube points[03:57:54] <ari-free> from the a team?[03:58:03] <SchmedlyHaiku> haha nice[03:58:13] <pyCube> rupert is one of the few employers that is more disturbing than the mouse[03:58:16] <LaceySnr> ha ha - I wish :)[03:58:40] <LaceySnr> I work for a company owned by a company owned by a company owned by Murdoch[03:58:44] <ari-free> I pity the fool[03:58:57] <JonathanThompson> My "Big Cheese" (8 levels higher than myself) is the Yangster.[03:58:58] <pyCube> yeah.. imd is only like 80% mouse[03:58:59] <SchmedlyHaiku> Ain't nobody gonna get Mr. T on no airplane[03:59:06] <LaceySnr> though I've only got 4 days left after today so I won't have to feel guilty about that anymore[04:00:06] <ari-free> rupert murdoch came up with "page 3" and this is how you treat him???[04:00:19] <LaceySnr> he he[04:00:24] *** pyCube has quit IRC[04:01:11] <ari-free> During the 1980s and early 1990s, as a response to such criticism, The Sun unveiled a regular 'Page Seven Fellas' feature, featuring scantily clad hunky men. This feature was short lived however.[04:01:38] <ari-free> good[04:02:28] *** dchis has joined #haiku[04:02:40] *** ozy` has quit IRC[04:04:29] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[04:04:30] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666[04:13:41] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC[04:15:58] *** begasus_ has joined #haiku[04:19:34] *** ozy` has joined #haiku[04:19:45] *** burfi has left #haiku[04:19:55] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[04:20:14] <miqlas> Hello![04:20:28] <stpere> DeadYak: hi![04:20:43] <stpere> I was watching hockey[04:20:46] <DeadYak> stpere: never mind, problem seems fixed :)[04:20:53] <stpere> :)[04:21:25] <stpere> my interpretation of the bug was wrong :)[04:21:39] <stpere> my patch did work, but it was an accident[04:22:11] <DeadYak> right, but what Ingo did the first time didn't completely work either[04:27:27] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[04:27:50] *** Begasus_bbl has quit IRC[04:31:02] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[04:31:19] *** pyCube has quit IRC[04:32:51] *** SchmedlyHaiku has quit IRC[04:33:14] *** aroman has joined #haiku[04:33:51] <JonathanThompson> DeadYak, software not being implemented correctly the first time? Tell me it ain't so![04:34:47] <umccullough_work> 8th time's the charm![04:35:02] * JonathanThompson notes umccullough_work is the eternal optimist[04:36:48] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: lol[04:36:49] <MindChild> I once had a cobol program that compiled and worked perfect the first time[04:36:50] <MindChild> once...[04:37:09] <JonathanThompson> Was it the for:next loop that printed the counter? :)[04:37:35] <MindChild> Dude, even that is easy to screw up in cobol[04:37:42] <MindChild> dont make light of it![04:37:45] <umccullough_work> usually when my code compiles and works the first time - i go back and screw with it because I clearly missed something important[04:38:05] * JonathanThompson wonders if it'll become an issue (suspecting it will) for a bug he filed against the product at work, since if he's not mistaken, it won't pass requirements until it's fixed, and the chief person behind the product tries to maintain it's not wrong[04:38:31] * DeadYak wonders if anyone ever tried to write a serious program in INTERCAL[04:38:54] <JonathanThompson> I can see the argument now: worst case, I'll refer the development manager (or whatever his title really is) to my manager in QA :)[04:39:29] <JonathanThompson> Just that as far as I know, even though it *doesn't* seem to affect most everyday running as shown in testing, it does something that violates requirements in how it isn't quite right...[04:39:41] <JonathanThompson> And it's something that seems to lose data.[04:39:57] <stpere> ouch[04:39:58] *** miqlas has quit IRC[04:40:06] <Schmedly3D> Loose data![04:40:09] <stpere> forgot to call fclose()...[04:40:12] <stpere> ?[04:40:12] <JonathanThompson> I'll offer to help track it down ASAP...[04:40:20] <JonathanThompson> Actually, a destructor isn't always being called.[04:40:37] <JonathanThompson> (I traced that down by having it create zero-length files in the constructor and destructor)[04:41:07] <JonathanThompson> Trying to step through this with a debugger live is a nightmare, because of the fact that this happens upon shutdown, and how long it takes to set it up to fail.[04:41:09] <MindChild> why would you do that[04:41:17] <MindChild> isnt TRACE or similar good enough?[04:41:24] <JonathanThompson> As in, it seems to need to do a normal data run, which isn't quick.[04:41:30] <MindChild> creating a file in a deconstructor is terrible[04:41:52] <JonathanThompson> I wanted to make sure that if it crashed, the trace file didn't get truncated and lose that information.[04:42:22] <MindChild> redirect trace to a seial port or SOMETHING[04:42:25] <MindChild> serial too[04:42:29] <JonathanThompson> That, and there's a chance that the system could run out of disk space, which would also lose the information: zero-length files aren't a problem.[04:42:53] <JonathanThompson> This is a massive database that can take days to process the data it's assigned, MindChild, even on a large cluster.[04:43:11] <JonathanThompson> (Depending on the dataset and the number of nodes in the grid/cluster/whatever)[04:43:45] <MindChild> but... creating anything in a deconstructor is ... like a goto[04:43:48] <JonathanThompson> Oh, and the machines it runs on that's required for testing are in some unknown location :)[04:43:53] <MindChild> sure you CAN do it, but you probably never should[04:44:09] <JonathanThompson> As soon as the issue is tracked down, it'll be removed.[04:44:14] <MindChild> You shoudlnt be creating any kind of resource... memory allocation.. what have you[04:44:19] <MindChild> I know[04:44:20] <MindChild> Im drunk[04:44:25] <MindChild> just ignore me[04:44:28] * umccullough_work is[04:44:43] <MindChild> OBVIOUSLY[04:44:55] * JonathanThompson notes umccullough_work[04:45:04] <JonathanThompson> C note, umccullough_work?[04:45:11] <JonathanThompson> Or just A note?[04:45:40] <umccullough_work> sticky please[04:45:54] * JonathanThompson staples a sticky note to umccullough_work's forehead[04:46:07] <JonathanThompson> Just in case the glue comes undone, you know ;)[04:47:05] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[04:47:06] <JonathanThompson> It's an ugly thing, what I did to prove what's going on... then again, so is a database that doesn't close its files correctly and would need to rely on logs to start back up with consistent data.[04:47:13] <stpere> at least its in the forehead, could be worse[04:47:17] <stpere> it's*[04:47:22] <Teknomancer> morning all[04:47:27] <JonathanThompson> Evening, Teknomancer.[04:47:31] <Teknomancer> :)[04:47:43] * JonathanThompson wonders if there are more than 3 Indians that ski in/on snow[04:47:55] <JonathanThompson> Someone at work asserted that there were only 3 that skied :)[04:48:04] <stpere> haha[04:48:12] <stpere> Indians in india?[04:48:13] <Teknomancer> you mean that knows skiing?[04:48:19] <JonathanThompson> Yes, those Indians ;)[04:48:26] <JonathanThompson> And does it, Teknomancer ;)[04:48:30] <stpere> because Indians immigrants can ski too[04:48:49] <JonathanThompson> I don't think I've yet seen one that likes the cold, stpere ;)[04:48:55] <Teknomancer> haha[04:49:05] <stpere> heheh[04:49:06] <Teknomancer> yeah we're generally used to 30+[04:49:10] <JonathanThompson> C[04:49:11] <Teknomancer> but that depends on which part of india[04:49:17] <Teknomancer> yes Celcius[04:49:40] * JonathanThompson walks outside with sandals without socks below 0 C[04:49:59] <JonathanThompson> Don't want my feet to overheat ;)[04:50:09] <JonathanThompson> (That wouldn't be neat)[04:50:12] <MindChild> stpere: You in russia?[04:50:26] <JonathanThompson> 51st US state? :)[04:50:30] <JonathanThompson> (Canada)[04:50:30] <stpere> I'm kidding, I'm in Quebec[04:50:31] <Teknomancer> anything below 10 or 12 C i need warm clothing[04:50:43] *** SchmedlyHaiku has joined #haiku[04:50:54] <stpere> but we like to think it's colder here than everywhere else[04:50:56] <Teknomancer> well, atleast till i get used to it[04:50:57] <JonathanThompson> Anything above 10C I need to go minimally dressed for running or I'll be sweating horribly :)[04:50:59] <stpere> even if we know it's not[04:51:23] <aroman> stpere: was in Montreal for New Year's... wasn't that bad... :P[04:51:32] * JonathanThompson suspects nobody would ever accuse him of sweating sweetly[04:51:42] <stpere> haha[04:52:00] <stpere> aroman: yes, the problem this year is/was with snow, not temp[04:52:22] <aroman> stpere: yes... glad I got to skip this winter (I'm from Ontario, but had a work term in California :P)[04:52:23] <stpere> there is always a problem here :)[04:52:29] <JonathanThompson> There are some people that seem to be able to run marathons without drinking water, and almost not sweating at all... then there's me.[04:52:42] <aroman> I think last year it was with the freezing rain, wasn't it? :([04:52:49] <stpere> yep[04:52:57] <stpere> IIRC[04:53:00] <JonathanThompson> (Yes, I've known someone that ran a marathon without drinking *anything* and he placed 3rd in his age class)[04:53:10] <Teknomancer> i love rain :)[04:53:14] <JonathanThompson> Freak of nature.[04:53:25] <JonathanThompson> Come visit this area, Teknomancer ;)[04:53:32] <JonathanThompson> (Though most of the time, it's more of a mist)[04:53:48] <Teknomancer> anything without bright sun is good enough for me[04:53:51] <Teknomancer> not necessarily rain,[04:53:58] <stpere> I love hail[04:54:03] <stpere> j/k[04:54:06] <JonathanThompson> You should fit in perfectly here, Teknomancer ;)[04:54:09] <ari-free> I love chocolate rain[04:54:14] <JonathanThompson> Hail is fun to drive in very fast :D[04:54:24] * JonathanThompson has done 85 mph in hail[04:54:31] <SchmedlyHaiku> All hail stpere[04:54:40] <stpere> :)[04:54:41] <aroman> JonathanThompson: if the hail isn't too large... :P then u risk damaging your car hehe[04:54:45] * Teknomancer has done 140kph in india[04:54:55] <Teknomancer> :P[04:55:08] <stpere> Teknomancer: from which level? :)[04:55:10] <Teknomancer> we're changing our car today/tomorrow[04:55:11] <JonathanThompson> Well, either way, I was going to get hit: I was 70+ miles from my final destination (home base at the time) and had nowhere to go for cover.[04:55:24] <aroman> I've done 160 kph on the 401 in Canada... but that was on good weather... :P[04:55:32] *** matthewpoer has quit IRC[04:55:32] <JonathanThompson> I could either wait it out in the open and withstand the perhaps large storm for an extended period of time, or go through it ASAP.[04:56:13] <stpere> I hate speeding, I'm always shaking when my friends do that and I'm with them[04:56:27] <stpere> even if the friend in question is a cop and a really good driver[04:56:28] <JonathanThompson> What's funny is my supervisor not too long after that asked how I keep my car looking so shiny and new on the outside :D[04:56:40] *** mib_ucv7vxy6 has quit IRC[04:56:47] <aroman> NICE![04:56:50] <JonathanThompson> (It did a great job removing the grime)[04:57:03] <aroman> looks like checkins from today fixed building the vmware image on Mac[04:57:04] *** cherrypie has joined #haiku[04:57:24] <SchmedlyHaiku> most I've ever done was about 190kph but that was on two wheels, flat land and dry clear weather[04:57:38] *** JamesB192 has left #haiku[04:57:48] * JonathanThompson may one day do that speed on 2 wheels on the ground, but not on a motorcycle[04:58:03] <umccullough_work> Schmedly3D, i've topped that on 4 wheels ;)[04:58:11] <umccullough_work> but only once[04:58:20] <JonathanThompson> I'm trying to think if I've gotten this car off the ground yet while driving...[04:58:26] <Teknomancer> my mom won't let me get a motorbike :/ crap[04:58:34] <Teknomancer> even if i said i'll buy it myself[04:58:35] <MindChild> I trade homless people a sandwich for a ride on their back[04:58:40] <MindChild> thats how I get around[04:58:50] <umccullough_work> damn, you're lazy[04:58:54] <SchmedlyHaiku> I'm about to saddle up once again.. I'm so excited to ride this year[04:59:17] <SchmedlyHaiku> Triumph is nearly owning the rest of the industry[04:59:18] <MindChild> just doing my part saving the earth and the homeless[04:59:26] <JonathanThompson> umccullough_work, at least they feel needed, as well as knee'ded :)[04:59:38] <SchmedlyHaiku> it's a shame their bikes aren't as plentiful though[04:59:46] <JonathanThompson> Triumph the insult comic sock puppet dog? :)[04:59:58] <SchmedlyHaiku> lol nice[05:00:03] <stpere> night everyone![05:00:11] <JonathanThompson> Bye stpere[05:00:30] <umccullough_work> JonathanThompson, keed'ed?[05:00:44] <JonathanThompson> Kneed'ed, er, whatever :)[05:00:47] <umccullough_work> you keed :)[05:01:00] <JonathanThompson> I do not! I have no woman around to assist in that![05:01:10] <JonathanThompson> Without her, I'm screwed... wait...[05:01:21] <SchmedlyHaiku> I rather enjoyed the irony of people laughing at a sock puppet making fun of people standing in line for a star wars flick[05:01:55] <JonathanThompson> That's the great comedy of it all, is that it seems the puppetmaster can get away with verbal murder as a result.[05:02:06] * [Katisu] wonders when Microsoft will own JonathanThompson's ass[05:02:12] <SchmedlyHaiku> Indeed[05:02:15] * JonathanThompson wants to see someone grab the puppet and throw it very hard and far[05:02:16] <umccullough_work> is it for sale?[05:02:28] <JonathanThompson> Yahoo! is, whether they want to or not, I think.[05:02:33] <[Katisu]> depends if it yodels[05:02:35] <umccullough_work> ah yes...but your ass?[05:02:47] <JonathanThompson> Well, it is a rather desired body part to keep...[05:02:53] <JonathanThompson> It'd be hard to drive without one.[05:03:34] <JonathanThompson> It'd also be a pain in the non-butt to go to the bathroom ;)[05:03:36] <[Katisu]> I like this article..[05:03:39] <[Katisu]> http://www.fool.com/investing/high-growth/2008/04/02/microsoft-stuck-overbid-for-yahoo.aspx[05:03:50] <[Katisu]> says Microsoft bid too much in the first place[05:04:38] * JonathanThompson notes people reporting keep reporting quotes of people reporting what they say people involved are reporting to the public[05:04:49] <MindChild> http://www.photobasement.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/babyburrito.jpg[05:04:52] *** ozy` has quit IRC[05:05:36] <aroman> All right! I've built and booted Haiku from source on my Mac in VMWare! :D[05:05:40] <[Katisu]> well, that's like saying someone "allegedly" did something according to unnamed sources[05:05:52] * JonathanThompson reads article and somehow gets a song from "The Music Man" stuck in his head[05:07:05] <umccullough_work> MindChild, that must have been one hell of a burrito[05:07:15] <umccullough_work> or one idiot of a person[05:07:51] <MindChild> Probably a little of both[05:07:55] <umccullough_work> perhaps[05:08:01] <cherrypie> mmmm burrito[05:08:15] <JonathanThompson> Funny how they claim "The House of Gates made a rookie mistake" when Microsoft is far from a rookie at acquiring companies.[05:09:41] <umccullough_work> perhaps they meant: "rookie-like"[05:09:42] <SchmedlyHaiku> hmm is there a system specific define for Haiku like __BEOS__ ?[05:09:48] <umccullough_work> __HAIKU__[05:09:51] <umccullough_work> yes[05:10:03] <umccullough_work> and __BEOS__ should be defined as well[05:10:25] <SchmedlyHaiku> right for compatibility, I just didn't know if it was pure legacy[05:10:58] <umccullough_work> i expect __HAIKU__ only works when using the native compiler now as opposed to the R5 version[05:11:08] <SchmedlyHaiku> we'll see in one moment[05:11:22] <[Katisu]> JonathanThompson, clearly the author thinks that predicting the future is an exact science[05:11:33] <JonathanThompson> Yeah, so silly.[05:11:52] <JonathanThompson> And I'm thinking perhaps he didn't read what Yahoo is forecasting in the future, either...[05:12:03] <JonathanThompson> Or perhaps I didn't, I don't known...[05:12:44] <[Katisu]> what, getting bought by Apple and being called "iYahoo!"[05:12:54] <umccullough_work> iHoo![05:13:02] <JonathanThompson> That'd be an interesting change ;)[05:13:11] * [Katisu] imagines JonathanThompson having to say i before everything[05:13:23] <JonathanThompson> In some ways, that'd be a better fit: Microsoft isn't so much into OSS, and Apple is, to a fairly large extent.[05:13:37] <JonathanThompson> iDon't know what you mean, katisu![05:14:20] <umccullough_work> maybe Nintendo will buy them...[05:14:33] <[Katisu]> that would be awesome[05:14:48] <JonathanThompson> Yahoo! games goes into consoles ;)[05:14:55] <umccullough_work> WiiYahoo![05:15:02] <JonathanThompson> WiiHoo :)[05:15:07] <umccullough_work> :D[05:15:11] <[Katisu]> YaWiiHoo[05:15:22] <umccullough_work> YahooWii![05:17:07] <SchmedlyHaiku> yep __HAIKU__ works like a charm[05:17:12] <JonathanThompson> Gesundheit![05:17:35] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[05:17:37] <SchmedlyHaiku> <sniffle>[05:18:09] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[05:20:26] <Anxiety|Home> I dont know about that JonathanThompson, MS has a lot of open source code released... Most of Apples stuff is inheritied from Mach/Darwin... only other thing I can think of is Safari being based on webkit[05:21:16] <umccullough_work> yeah, not sure Apple is as FOSS friendly as it would seem[05:21:23] <JonathanThompson> It seems Apple is more willing to not reinvent the wheel, compared to Microsoft.[05:21:39] <umccullough_work> well, that's because Microsoft has been rolling around the same wheel forever now[05:21:47] <ari-free> if it wasn't for microsoft, we'd be buying computers either from IBM or Apple and that's it[05:21:47] <JonathanThompson> That is, they may not be the most FOSS-friendly in promoting it and giving it out, but they're (I think) more likely to use what's there that's good.[05:22:17] <cherrypie> or aatari or amiga or acorn, someone had to float to the top[05:22:21] <Anxiety|Home> not even apple, ari-free... Microsoft bailed Apple out more then once... but I suppose you could argue that if MS wasnt there they might not have needed[05:22:27] <JonathanThompson> Or <GASP> Commodore ;)[05:22:30] <umccullough_work> MS doesn't reinvent wheels either - they just buy pre-built ones and re-brand them[05:22:39] <[Katisu]> ari-free, I doubt IBM[05:23:13] <ari-free> some proprietary computer. we wouldn't have the choice in pc's we have today with MS[05:23:37] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps we'd all be using nth generation BeBoxes :D[05:24:09] <cherrypie> we'd prolly be stuck on some bastardized 68k platform[05:24:16] <[Katisu]> umccullough_work, well given the way software patents are starting to be, that may be the only path in the future[05:25:03] <ari-free> MS is #1 because they are more open than Apple and easier to use than unix.[05:25:20] <umccullough_work> at least MS doesn't play the hardware-lockin game[05:25:36] <umccullough_work> of course, the market wouldn't allow them to at this point anyway[05:25:50] <umccullough_work> for desktops that is[05:25:59] <[Katisu]> that's what X-Box is supposed to be for[05:26:04] <Anxiety|Home> I still think Haiku will rule the world <sinister laugh/>[05:26:07] <JonathanThompson> MS is all over the mobile space...[05:26:15] <JonathanThompson> Not doing all that well at it, but they're all over it...[05:26:29] <umccullough_work> JonathanThompson, right - but they don't make the hardware and limit their OS to it[05:26:45] <umccullough_work> the xbox, yes[05:26:53] <ari-free> I thought when palm blew it that MS would wipe the floor in mobile but that hasn't happened[05:27:07] <umccullough_work> right - because linux filled the gap[05:27:10] <JonathanThompson> Seems Apple might do that instead.[05:27:19] <JonathanThompson> Apple and/or Linux will be the big ones, I think.[05:27:21] <ari-free> and blackberry[05:27:36] <umccullough_work> and symbian[05:27:39] <JonathanThompson> What's blackberry using now?[05:27:52] <JonathanThompson> I'm making a guess they'll end up going to Linux if they aren't already.[05:27:54] <cherrypie> I want a Haiku phone ;)[05:27:57] <[Katisu]> bah, mobile market is a mixed market[05:28:03] <ari-free> blackberry uses their own thing[05:28:10] <[Katisu]> not everybody wants the same solution[05:28:24] *** ozy` has joined #haiku[05:28:33] <umccullough_work> interoperability isn't as important i guess[05:29:03] <JonathanThompson> My thoughts are that if Microsoft doesn't start making up ground, it'll eventually come down to something that's Unix/linux-based by sheer power of having a great base platform that's mostly already there and is always advancing.[05:29:20] <umccullough_work> and extremely modular[05:29:29] <JonathanThompson> If you don't have an absolutely huge developer pool to develop things, using what's already there is a big win.[05:29:35] <[Katisu]> well, that's where the "software patents" come in[05:30:03] * [Katisu] imagines Microsoft claiming they own linux in a few years[05:30:08] * JonathanThompson suddenly wonders if he'll find himself moving to a different country sooner or later to avoid them[05:30:11] <ari-free> Xenix![05:30:23] <umccullough_work> *groan*[05:31:05] * JonathanThompson imagines MS resurrecting Xenix for phones to compete with OS X on the iPhone/iPod line[05:31:35] <umccullough_work> looks like they sold all rights to sco[05:31:49] <umccullough_work> of course...they could buy it back ;)[05:32:01] <JonathanThompson> Make money on it twice :)[05:32:23] <ozy`> JonathanThompson: nope, they'd rather put windows on everything[05:32:33] <ozy`> they've been putting windows in cars[05:32:38] <ozy`> (don't drive cars!)[05:32:45] <ari-free> if i was microsoft and really evil, I'd make a deal with novell....oh wait[05:32:47] <JonathanThompson> Yeah, and people still drive blind![05:32:50] <umccullough_work> wow, it was ported to the 68k lisa[05:32:53] <umccullough_work> i didn't know that[05:33:14] <Anxiety|Home> I think theres room for an OSS OS thats not based on some old stone age design... Linux has certainly pushed the envelope, but its basic design seems blah to me... but thats my completely ignorant opinion[05:34:02] <umccullough_work> i actually messed with an old AT&T 68010 machine running some unix (not sure which) once - was quite painful[05:34:39] * JonathanThompson shakes head in frustration at the stupid mortgage crisis thing.[05:34:45] <umccullough_work> looks like it might have been a 3B1[05:35:04] <JonathanThompson> I wish they'd just come out and say it: "You're all screwed, and you'll just have to take your medicine like the market insists is natural"[05:35:18] <JonathanThompson> And that'd be the most fair and probably the wisest thing they could do.[05:35:34] <ari-free> well part of the problem is the value of the dollar[05:35:36] <ozy`> Anxiety|Home: the linux kernel, at least, doesn't bother me so much as the desktop environments for linux[05:35:43] <JonathanThompson> People that bought more than they could afford, knowing the risk? Screw'em.[05:36:07] <JonathanThompson> The value of the dollar does nothing for people overcommitting to ARMs.[05:36:10] <[Katisu]> JonathanThompson, not only that but they got extra money besides[05:36:28] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps to some I sound heartless and cruel.[05:36:45] <[Katisu]> "Here's the money to buy the house plus another $50,000 just for fun."[05:37:28] <JonathanThompson> But, I was a responsible person, bought well within what I could afford and was comfortable with, and I was still screwed by circumstances beyond my control.[05:37:29] <ari-free> the problem with the value of the dollar means it is hard to calculate risk. it's like trying to measure something with centimeters but tomorrow the definition of centimeter changes[05:37:36] <umccullough_work> JonathanThompson, cruel is what they're doing to the honest people who can actually afford what they have[05:37:59] <[Katisu]> ari-free, value of the dollar has nothing to do with it[05:38:05] <JonathanThompson> umccullough_work, what's cruel is the honest and responsible people that didn't take those risks have to pay for those that did.[05:38:13] <umccullough_work> right[05:38:27] <JonathanThompson> As in tax money that'll be bailing them out, and screwing up ability to get credit.[05:38:35] <ari-free> yes it does. the fed printed too much $[05:38:36] <umccullough_work> well, you mean, what's cruel is what is *happening* to those honest responsible people as a result[05:38:49] <[Katisu]> houses were over valuated in the first place[05:38:50] <umccullough_work> actually, that's what you said[05:38:57] <JonathanThompson> Those that knowingly took out ARMs deserve to lose their legs, too.[05:39:12] <JonathanThompson> Natural business selection, risk/reward that happens in reality.[05:39:37] <umccullough_work> when interest rates drop to 'record lows' it fucks things up[05:39:46] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[05:39:55] <[Katisu]> are the people who can afford to pay their mortgage but not doing so "honest responsible people"??[05:40:21] <[Katisu]> many aren't because the value of their house dropped[05:40:23] <ari-free> I think the market should set the interest rates[05:40:33] <JonathanThompson> That's what an ARM is :)[05:41:00] <JonathanThompson> And those that walk away from their loans because their value dropped, well, they're not being honest either.[05:41:10] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: I keep reading that as Advanced RISC Machines :P[05:41:26] <LaceySnr> heh - that's what ARM stands for? :)[05:41:29] <umccullough_work> JonathanThompson, granted, the banks made the conscious decision to lend knowing that the value might drop as well[05:41:37] * JonathanThompson notes there's a new[malady] of Processor on the Brain[05:41:48] <umccullough_work> LaceySnr, adjustable rate mortgage[05:41:54] <JonathanThompson> True, umccullough_work, and they also deserve their lumps.[05:42:04] <[Katisu]> umccullough_work, not only that, but they used appraisers that they should have[05:42:10] <[Katisu]> shouldn't*[05:42:20] <LaceySnr> I was reading it the same way as DeadYak - I do a lot of DS coding which is all on ARM9 :)[05:42:35] <JonathanThompson> If there's a bright side for me in all this, I have nothing for investments to get hosed as a result of this "meltdown" :D[05:42:36] <umccullough_work> DS eh?[05:42:42] <umccullough_work> LaceySnr, like what?[05:43:10] <LaceySnr> well atm I'm just doing homebrew tech[05:43:19] <umccullough_work> cool[05:43:20] <LaceySnr> but I worked on some EA titles in my old job[05:43:40] <umccullough_work> i like the DS - it's a neat little machine[05:44:05] <LaceySnr> yeah it's nice to code for too. There's a linux port to it, maybe we should get Haiku going :0[05:44:08] <LaceySnr> :)[05:44:34] <umccullough_work> yeah, i was thinking of getting some hardware (mem expansion, etc.) for my daughter's DS Lite so i could mess with it ;)[05:44:53] <umccullough_work> not that i could code for it or anything...just fun to play with[05:45:34] <LaceySnr> it's easy to code for with homebrew libs[05:45:41] <DeadYak> LaceySnr: isn't the DS ARM9 + ARM7 ?[05:45:47] <LaceySnr> they're not a bad approximation to the official SDK these days[05:45:49] <umccullough_work> i believe it is[05:46:03] <LaceySnr> yeah - with the official libs you can't write code for the ARM7 though - they provide a binary you have to use[05:46:08] <DeadYak> LaceySnr: ah[05:46:14] <DeadYak> LaceySnr: what all can you use the ARM7 for then?[05:46:31] <LaceySnr> the arm 7 controls sound, touchscreen input and networking - it's only in the system for backwards compatibility with GBA games - the GBA was ARM7[05:46:38] <DeadYak> ahhh.[05:46:42] <umccullough_work> i was thinking something like that[05:46:46] <DeadYak> I thought you could actually make use of both[05:46:48] <DeadYak> interesting[05:46:49] <LaceySnr> basically they have a binary you use which puts data at specific places in RAM etc.[05:46:50] <DeadYak> thanks for clarifying :)[05:46:59] <LaceySnr> on homebrew you can do what you like of course :)[05:47:07] <umccullough_work> yeah, there are tons of homebrew GBA out there[05:47:10] *** Wiss has quit IRC[05:47:20] <umccullough_work> in fact, I think that's how they cracked the DS - using the GBA compatibility[05:47:25] <LaceySnr> it's fun to code for, though that's why I'm not too hot with application / systems coding[05:47:44] <LaceySnr> I just write straight C and have complete control over the system :)[05:48:26] <LaceySnr> umccullough_work: yeah, they basically tricked the machine into running ARM9 code from the GBA port. these days you can just use the DS slot[05:49:05] <umccullough_work> right, once they figured out the keys and stuff[05:49:12] <umccullough_work> oopsie :)[05:50:26] <LaceySnr> I'm hoping to expand my OO and applications coding experience using Haiku now - the only app I wrote for BeOS was a screen saver like the flip one, but I flipped around the vertical axis :)[06:02:24] <Schmedly3D> umccullough_work: I've put together a few things on the DS, and indeed it is fun[06:03:28] <Schmedly3D> API-wise everything is exposed, from 2d and 3d to the stylus and wi-fi[06:03:49] <LaceySnr> I just find it fun doing all the bit twiddling etc. and having limited ram availalbe[06:04:08] <LaceySnr> and I like knowing that your program is all that's running[06:04:37] <Schmedly3D> like bare metal coding huh :)[06:04:42] <umccullough_work> :)[06:04:54] <umccullough_work> i wouldn't know what to do with all that ;)[06:06:09] <LaceySnr> lol[06:06:15] <LaceySnr> I don't know what to do with application programming[06:06:18] <LaceySnr> but I'm trying to learn :)[06:07:21] <LaceySnr> I wish I had loads of time to devote to Haiku and helping out, I know it can be the OS I want to use but it's just gonna take time[06:12:05] *** thorn__ has quit IRC[06:15:01] *** thorn has joined #haiku[06:15:29] *** clsk has joined #haiku[06:19:30] *** SchmedlyHaiku has quit IRC[06:22:34] <umccullough_work> anyone have the old ipro1000 driver for BeOS before it was removed from bebits?[06:22:38] <umccullough_work> looking for "ipro1000_0.4.zip"[06:23:43] *** aroman has quit IRC[06:24:37] *** aroman has joined #haiku[06:25:24] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[06:26:37] * umccullough_work guesses it can be obtained from a beos max disc[06:36:55] *** AlexForster has quit IRC[06:38:14] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[06:38:38] <Kokito> howdy[06:42:01] *** hiroshiyui has joined #haiku[06:42:25] <Kokito> konnichiha :)[06:42:45] <hiroshiyui> Kokito: konnichiha :)[06:42:54] <umccullough_work> Kokito, you saw dreamhost's request for a hold on file uploads to their websites if possible right?[06:43:15] <umccullough_work> i.e. anything non-critical should wait[06:43:15] <Kokito> yes[06:43:18] <umccullough_work> ok[06:43:25] <Kokito> gotta tell Sikosis[06:43:43] <umccullough_work> yeah, maybe he could even remove some of the older images temporarily[06:43:52] *** hiroshiyui has left #haiku[06:44:02] <Kokito> no need to remove what's already there /me thinks[06:44:26] *** hiroshiyui has joined #haiku[06:44:35] <cshaiku> you need some web space somewhere?[06:44:50] <Kokito> cshaiku, not really[06:44:52] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, dreamhost is just having some issues[06:44:57] <umccullough_work> they're in the process of resolving[06:45:11] <Kokito> hiroshiyui, genki desuka?[06:45:16] <cshaiku> ok, just curious[06:46:15] <hiroshiyui> Kokito: hai, ogenki desu, Kokito san ha?[06:46:18] <Teknomancer> hi cshaiku[06:46:19] <Kokito> cshaiku, we have plenty of space and bandwidth, but the provider where haiku-files.org is hosted is having some issues[06:46:33] <Kokito> totemo genki desu hiroshiyui san :)[06:46:50] <Kokito> moshi yokattara, #haiku-jp ni douzo > hiroshiyui san[06:47:41] <cshaiku> just know that you've got some from me, if requires... haikunews.org and cshaiku.com (two different hosts)[06:48:52] <Kokito> thanks cshaiku :)[06:54:25] *** hiroshiyui has left #haiku[07:00:00] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[07:00:23] *** mmadia_ has quit IRC[07:01:45] <ari-free> Haiku 2.0 was already out 10 years ago...in Japan[07:02:38] * Kokito wonders where the catch of what ari-free said is[07:03:20] * Kokito wonders if ari-free knows what "ari" means in Japanese[07:03:54] <ari-free> heh it's a popular response. In Soviet Russia, Haiku boots you![07:03:55] <umccullough_work> heh[07:04:38] <Kokito> ouch...[07:04:44] <LaceySnr> wish my machine would book Haiku ;)[07:04:50] * umccullough_work regretfully drinks a caffienated energy drink to stay awake at work[07:05:14] <umccullough_work> i suspect it's going to be one of those nights :([07:05:15] <Kokito> video does not work with latest nightly image on my laptop[07:05:18] <LaceySnr> umccullough_work: I know your pain, I had 3 beers at lunch and am now chugging coffee to try and make it through the afternoon[07:05:29] <umccullough_work> LaceySnr, it's 10PM here[07:05:36] <LaceySnr> ah[07:05:37] <LaceySnr> 4pm for me[07:05:46] <LaceySnr> nearly the weekend thank buggery[07:05:55] <umccullough_work> and I still gotta go shopping for groceries on my way home[07:06:00] <Kokito> still at work umccullough ?[07:06:04] <umccullough_work> Kokito, yeah[07:07:17] <Kokito> go home man[07:07:36] <umccullough_work> can't yet[07:07:56] <umccullough_work> must...finish...work...[07:08:19] <umccullough_work> ~170mg of caffeine should help :)[07:08:26] <ari-free> ari means lion in hebrew[07:08:29] <umccullough_work> oh, 140mg...[07:08:47] <Kokito> ari means "ant" in Japanese[07:09:02] <Teknomancer> ari means itch in Tamil.[07:09:05] <umccullough_work> ant-lion![07:09:08] <Teknomancer> scratch rather[07:09:32] <ari-free> scratch is the devil[07:09:34] <umccullough_work> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ari[07:09:45] <umccullough_work> "Filipino word for genitals."[07:09:46] <umccullough_work> ;)[07:10:00] <umccullough_work> you lose![07:10:02] <Kokito> Teknomancer, makes sense; ants can cause itching :P[07:10:13] <Teknomancer> yep[07:10:16] <Kokito> umccullough, that can itch too :P[07:10:21] <umccullough_work> true[07:10:33] <umccullough_work> jock itch[07:10:36] <ari-free> i wouldn't talk, urease[07:10:50] <ari-free> :P[07:10:52] <Kokito> and in other figurative ways too[07:11:24] <umccullough_work> ants-in-pants...or other creatures[07:11:25] <Kokito> has anyone tried the latest nightly image?[07:12:49] <Kokito> I am getting very weird video[07:13:11] <umccullough_work> been a lot of tweaking with stuff in the last couple days[07:13:35] <umccullough_work> funny how that happens almost immediately after a big milestone announcement[07:13:57] <LaceySnr> big milestone annoucement?[07:14:02] <LaceySnr> oh the self hosting?[07:14:04] <umccullough_work> "haiku self hosts"[07:14:05] <umccullough_work> yeah[07:14:34] <ari-free> must be the OS gremlins[07:14:42] <LaceySnr> that's what prompted me to install linux as a dev environment[07:14:46] <umccullough_work> although, i can't exactly remember what other announcements I'm thinking of...[07:14:56] <LaceySnr> just to get haiku on my machine + working then hopefully dev in that[07:15:22] <umccullough_work> but i'm pretty sure there have been several situations where people flock to the Haiku site and here on IRC looking for help installing/testing only to find out something big just got broken[07:15:34] <LaceySnr> I've been following Haiku from the word go, just wish I had some time to help out[07:16:05] <Kokito> strange... video won't work right even in vesa mode[07:16:11] <LaceySnr> I think installing is the big thing atm, I know it's not ready for it and people should wait, but running it in a VM always feels like cheating[07:16:19] <LaceySnr> because it's always real hardware where the biggies crop up[07:16:32] <umccullough_work> LaceySnr, linux dev environment makes that a lot easier ;)[07:16:53] <umccullough_work> i've been installing xubuntu on lots of my extra machines lately just so I can use them to build, install, and test Haiku natively[07:17:12] <umccullough_work> probably 5 or 6 machines so far at home with xubuntu/haiku on them[07:17:23] <LaceySnr> I tried a while back I've just been totally unable to get WPA working right until now[07:17:30] <umccullough_work> oh, wireless...ick :P[07:17:36] <LaceySnr> got it working on Ubuntu on my work laptop, but home machine has newer hardware and caused issues[07:17:45] <LaceySnr> don't get me started - I hate wireless :)[07:17:47] <umccullough_work> yeah, linux *hates* my realtek-based wireless cards -but loves the atheros ones[07:18:05] <LaceySnr> I'd rather have a phsyical connection any day :0[07:18:12] <umccullough_work> with atheros I can use WPA2 even[07:18:27] <umccullough_work> LaceySnr, no wired ethernet on your computer?[07:18:28] <Kokito> well, USB does work[07:19:01] <LaceySnr> no - my ISP only gave me a router with 1 ethernet port and that's for my 360, plus I don't have a desk so even if I got a router the cable would be trailing to wherever the laptop is in the flat[07:19:11] <umccullough_work> yeah, i picked up a USB ethernet adapter recently - was a bitch to get it running though under linux and then it just started working all of a sudden[07:19:14] <geist> you, sir, are out of order[07:19:35] <ari-free> my pc here is wired, the pc upstairs, the laptop go through wireless and I forgot how the Wii connects to the internet[07:19:53] <umccullough_work> LaceySnr, i just picked up a wrt54gl, flashed it with dd-wrt and am using it in client-mode to provide wired ethernet bridge for multiple machines to my existing wireless netowrk[07:20:02] <LaceySnr> yeah I'd normally be like that, but I came to Australia 6 months ago and I'm only here for another 3 - travelling light[07:21:13] <LaceySnr> just saw that post about capslock on the site[07:21:22] <LaceySnr> I think it'd be more useful to have an option to bind it to ctrl[07:21:25] *** koki_haiku has joined #haiku[07:21:40] <LaceySnr> that's what I do in Ubuntu, it's where ctrl is supposed to be and much easier to use[07:21:56] <ari-free> make it default and people will love you[07:22:20] <umccullough_work> i can't remember how many keyboards i've seen where the capslock has been ripped off[07:22:26] <ari-free> oh you mean bind it...what would control do then?[07:22:35] <LaceySnr> ctrl does ctrl[07:22:37] <LaceySnr> capslock does ctrl[07:22:38] <umccullough_work> there would be two ctrl keeys[07:22:48] <umccullough_work> 3 if you count the other side ;)[07:22:49] <LaceySnr> 3 control keys if you count the one on the right[07:22:50] <LaceySnr> lol[07:22:55] <umccullough_work> heh[07:22:59] <LaceySnr> I only use the caps key out of the three though[07:23:16] *** frankps has joined #haiku[07:23:17] <umccullough_work> lot easier on the pinky using capslock for ctrl i would guess[07:23:20] <ari-free> I liked the idea of control or shift +capslock to DO THIS[07:23:54] <LaceySnr> umccullough - yep - give it a try, it's amazing how much better it is there :)[07:24:12] <LaceySnr> ari-free: I think that's good too, I just htink a range of options would be even better[07:24:39] * koki_haiku is able to mount USB stick in Haiku[07:24:41] <umccullough_work> LaceySnr, i'd hate to get into a habit like that - it would drive me nuts when using other people's computers :/[07:24:44] <ari-free> too many options make it harder to support[07:25:02] <LaceySnr> it does drive me nuts when I boot up windows I must admin :)[07:25:06] <LaceySnr> admit*[07:25:14] <umccullough_work> well, and then there's that[07:25:17] <LaceySnr> but then so does having to use ctrl instead of alt for commands in the 'fox etc.[07:25:20] <umccullough_work> i'm a windows dev by day[07:25:40] * LaceySnr uses vim all day[07:25:48] *** MindChild has quit IRC[07:26:00] <umccullough_work> i can't even use vim - i haven't really applied myself to learn[07:26:03] *** MindChild has joined #haiku[07:26:08] <umccullough_work> eventually i probably will[07:26:24] <LaceySnr> it's really worth it IMO[07:26:25] <umccullough_work> but fortunately, i'm not a mouse addict either :)[07:26:40] <ari-free> my mom used to use VMS and i think she needed capslock all the time[07:26:42] <LaceySnr> doesn't take long to learn a few useful commands and it ends up being so much quicker to use[07:27:06] <umccullough_work> yeah, i suppose - and it's generally universal as well, which is a bonus[07:27:35] <umccullough_work> soon enough...[07:27:38] <LaceySnr> :)[07:27:48] <umccullough_work> i'm starting to train myself away from windows more and more lately[07:28:10] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[07:28:25] <LaceySnr> I really look forward to the day where I can use Haiku 90% of the time[07:28:41] <LaceySnr> i've used linux for years and am perfectly comfortable with it[07:28:46] <LaceySnr> but it's still a damned mess[07:30:08] <ari-free> I always joke that when i say i want haiku should be easy for my mom to use it means using vms commands instead of bash[07:30:10] <Barrett666> : D[07:30:13] <aroman> dev.haiku-os.org seems to be very slow for me... is it the same for everyone else?[07:30:29] <umccullough_work> aroman, it's been very slow lately[07:30:39] <umccullough_work> *very* slow[07:30:49] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[07:30:59] <aroman> umccullough_work: glad it's not just me...[07:31:27] <umccullough_work> heh...actually, i wish it was just you ;)[07:31:31] <aroman> :P[07:31:32] <umccullough_work> but don't take that personally[07:31:39] <aroman> no no... I understand :)[07:31:53] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[07:33:20] <aroman> I wanted to do one of the easy tasks since I'm beginning to hack Haiku and wanted to apply for Summer of Code (been very busy and didn't get a chance to apply yet)... I was going to fix ticket #1006... the one where the Revert button in the Backgrounds preferences application should revert to the settings when the application was first launched, not when Apply was last clicked...[07:33:31] <geist> http://www.penny-arcade.com/uploads/2008/04/02/sad_guy.jpg[07:33:33] <geist> sums it all up[07:33:57] <ari-free> I pity the fool[07:38:21] <ari-free> hmm[07:40:57] <LaceySnr> I snapped up a bug about screen prefs a while back but never got wround to fixing it properly due to not being able to test at the time, what's the best way of debugging things like that though?[07:44:51] *** frankps has quit IRC[07:46:47] <umccullough_work> just so I'm clear on this - if I compiled a C POSIX app for Haiku using GCC4 - it would run on a GCC2-compiled version of Haiku right?[07:46:58] <umccullough_work> *should* anyway[07:48:15] <LaceySnr> yeah I think It just wouldn't run on R5[07:48:25] <umccullough_work> curious - why not?[07:48:39] <umccullough_work> not saying I don't believe you...[07:48:48] <LaceySnr> I have no idea :) Just seem to remember reading it somewhere[07:48:52] *** koki_haiku has quit IRC[07:48:59] <umccullough_work> if i only used POSIX stuff that was supported by R5...[07:49:25] <umccullough_work> the C++ ABI is the biggest problem on BeOS in GCC3 and newer...so i know that[07:50:01] <umccullough_work> anyhow, i just want to run it on haiku anyway :)[07:51:46] <Kokito> good night folks[07:51:49] *** dchis has quit IRC[07:52:03] *** Kokito has quit IRC[08:04:32] *** begasus_ is now known as Begasus[08:04:59] <Begasus> morning peeps[08:06:26] <Teknomancer> hey Begasus[08:06:43] <Begasus> hey Teknomancer ;)[08:06:48] <Begasus> how's it going?[08:07:20] <Teknomancer> Begasus: fine, quite hectic though :/[08:07:33] <Teknomancer> and for you?[08:07:42] <Teknomancer> how are the huskys[08:07:43] <Begasus> calm day planned here[08:07:48] <Teknomancer> cool[08:07:54] <Teknomancer> wish I had one of those :P[08:08:02] <Begasus> good ... still growing ;)[08:08:56] <Teknomancer> ah[08:10:10] <Begasus> visit to the hospital in a bit here (wife needs to get some tests)[08:16:15] <Teknomancer> going to pickup a new car[08:16:18] *** Teknomancer is now known as _Tek[08:20:13] *** DHowett has joined #haiku[08:20:14] *** nils_1 has quit IRC[08:20:32] <DHowett> Am I a bad person for wanting to use "Added safety to prevent operator dismemberment." as a commit message for j. random software project?[08:21:04] <LaceySnr> nah[08:21:04] <LaceySnr> :)[08:21:10] <umccullough_work> sounds reasonable to me[08:21:45] <DHowett> awesome[08:22:32] *** nils_t has joined #haiku[08:22:44] <LaceySnr> I used "First commit - thar be changes on the horizon" the other day[08:22:48] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[08:23:09] <DHowett> Awesome[08:23:28] <DHowett> The best place I can think to use this right now is in Software Engineering class (ew, i'm a CS major, why do i need?)[08:23:38] <DHowett> i promise not to use it if i get in gsoc for haiku ;)[08:23:51] <LaceySnr> ha ha[08:32:13] *** Thom_Holwerda has quit IRC[08:42:14] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC[08:43:46] <umccullough_work> mmm... devs are waking up in europe ;)[08:44:08] * JonathanThompson issues rubber mallets to umccullough_work to put them out of his misery[08:45:39] <cshaiku> what's the link to the latest Haiku friendly Firefox?[08:46:31] <cshaiku> should I use : http://bebits.com/app/3143[08:46:32] <cshaiku> ?[08:47:30] *** Begasus has quit IRC[08:49:56] *** Thom_Holwerda has joined #haiku[08:51:14] *** Andrew|26m has quit IRC[08:51:14] *** Androidz has joined #Haiku[08:52:54] <DHowett> cshaiku: Hmm[08:53:24] *** LaceySnr has left #haiku[08:53:55] <DHowett> cshaiku: The jamfile for optional packages pulls a haiku-compatible one from http://www.sheltonfamily.org/firefoxbuilds/firefox-2.0.0.12.en-US.beosR5-i586.zip but that seems to be the same filename as the r5.0.3 one from that bebits page[08:54:27] <cshaiku> in fact that is the same name. I just downloaded and unzipped it, but it complains of missing libs[08:54:52] <cshaiku> libmozjs.so, etc[08:55:00] <stef> I managed to run that one from the console with the run-mozilla script[08:55:07] <cshaiku> I wonder if its stupid like it used to be and requires those libs in the beos/system folder[08:56:17] <stef> the instructions on that bebits page (creating that environment script) didn't seem to work for me[08:56:35] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, better using the re-ordered build for BONE :)[08:56:55] <umccullough_work> then you don't have to worry about setting up the environment to handle the libs[08:57:18] <umccullough_work> you can either grab the 2.0.0.12pre from the bleeding edge page, or find the 2.0.0.14pre that mmadia built[08:57:23] <umccullough_work> forget where he stuffed it[08:57:29] <umccullough_work> BONE for both[08:58:34] <umccullough_work> stef, same for you - just use a bleeding edge re-ordered build and you won't have to mess with the environment stuff[08:58:46] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[08:58:49] <stef> I'll try, thanks[08:59:02] <umccullough_work> BONE version also[08:59:18] <umccullough_work> http://bebits.com/app/2715[08:59:20] <stef> just installed Haiku yesterday, haven't messed with BeOS in years :)[08:59:23] *** m0ns00n has joined #haiku[08:59:27] <umccullough_work> aight[08:59:41] <umccullough_work> that one has some extra experimental stuff even[08:59:53] <DHowett> are the ff3 betas fiable for haiku? :D[08:59:54] <umccullough_work> the 2.0.0.14pre that mmadia built me doesn't have the printing support or the lightweight nspr[08:59:58] <DHowett> viable*[09:00:05] <umccullough_work> DHowett, missing dependencies[09:00:09] <DHowett> Bah[09:00:19] <umccullough_work> cairo for starters doesn't build clean yet :/[09:00:33] <umccullough_work> yell at the mozilla folks - they abandoned gcc2.x[09:00:46] <cshaiku> so... I want this one:[09:00:50] <cshaiku> Minefield 2006-11-05 with experimental nsAppShell and other patches[09:00:51] <cshaiku> ?[09:00:57] <umccullough_work> no, not minefield[09:00:59] <umccullough_work> that's ff3[09:01:02] <umccullough_work> 2.0.0.12pre[09:01:07] <umccullough_work> that's the shiznit![09:01:14] <cshaiku> version 2.0.12pre with Experimental Postscript printing[09:01:15] <cshaiku> ?[09:01:18] <umccullough_work> yeah![09:01:20] <cshaiku> ok[09:01:24] <umccullough_work> bone[09:01:31] <umccullough_work> works pretty well under haiku last i tried[09:01:39] <cshaiku> which particular link?>[09:01:44] <umccullough_work> disclaimer: since mmadia gave me a 2.0.0.14pre build - i haven't been using the 12pre version[09:01:47] <cshaiku> http://bebits.com/app/2715[09:01:55] <umccullough_work> R5+BONE[09:02:23] <umccullough_work> reordered FTW![09:02:45] <umccullough_work> seriously though - next time you see mmadia, nail him for a link to his special build[09:02:54] <umccullough_work> it works well[09:03:00] <cshaiku> coolios[09:03:03] <umccullough_work> DeadYak may know where it's at too...[09:03:06] <cshaiku> downloading ff now[09:03:09] <cshaiku> in Haiku[09:03:16] <umccullough_work> you building your own images?[09:03:20] <umccullough_work> or downloading them?[09:04:06] <umccullough_work> btw, make sure you kill any crappy profile that got created from the build you tried already...doubt anything got created though[09:04:13] <umccullough_work> oh, and sync often :P[09:04:25] <umccullough_work> writeback still sucks[09:04:40] <cshaiku> yeah, nothing got written in that regard[09:04:57] <umccullough_work> yeah, probably didn't get far enough into the startup[09:05:07] <cshaiku> yeah.. bon echo![09:05:13] <umccullough_work> some claim that ff2 on haiku is faster than on beos btw ;)[09:05:21] <cshaiku> ok, now that I have a bloody browser, I can actually dl/install stuff :)[09:05:22] <umccullough_work> seriously repaint issues though[09:05:35] <umccullough_work> gotta resize the window to fix it sometimes[09:05:38] <DHowett> Bloody? Well, it is a .pre version[09:05:39] <DHowett> .. ;)[09:06:04] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, when i build my haiku images, i include mmu_man's optional "Links" browser[09:06:13] <umccullough_work> it's quite usable for light surfing/downloading[09:06:22] *** burfi has joined #haiku[09:06:22] <DHowett> I throw both in[09:06:41] <cshaiku> ah, what's the link to Links ?[09:06:43] <umccullough_work> DHowett, usually i do also - but I load firefox from a local zipped version - cuz the one in the optional packages sucks[09:06:49] <DHowett> Ahh[09:06:56] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, it's in the optional packages[09:07:11] <DHowett> I kinda want Swiss721 BT and Dutch801rm BT .. and the other BeOS fonts.. installed in linux. What format are they in?[09:07:16] <umccullough_work> DHowett, you can add two lines to your UserBuildConfig to unzip and create a symlink to a different version of firefox :)[09:07:47] <umccullough_work> DHowett, maybe if I catch you online from home sometime I'll send you an example of what I use[09:08:06] <DHowett> Awesome, thanks. I'm about a lot, as you surely have noticed. ;)[09:08:07] <DHowett> hehe[09:08:23] <umccullough_work> ditto, but have been working my ass off lately :/[09:08:28] <cshaiku> apparently not in the image I downloaded then[09:08:34] <DHowett> ahh ><[09:08:40] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, nope, you'll hae to build your own for that stuff[09:08:50] <cshaiku> what image do you recommend? and, besides, there's no gcc even in this image I got[09:08:54] <cshaiku> from haiku-os.org[09:08:58] <umccullough_work> yeah...[09:09:00] <cshaiku> build factory, specifically[09:09:03] <umccullough_work> build your own :)[09:09:04] <cshaiku> which, is kind of strange?[09:09:19] <cshaiku> how do you build gcc without gcc?[09:09:21] <umccullough_work> nope, that stuff's all optional still[09:09:28] <umccullough_work> explain.[09:09:36] <cshaiku> you said build your own[09:09:45] <umccullough_work> what OS are you using besidez haiku?[09:09:56] <cshaiku> are you serious? I thought Haiku was self-hosting recently?[09:09:58] <DHowett> cshaiku: Want me to build a haiku image for you, without the stock optional firefox? Feeling generous[09:10:13] <cshaiku> naw, I want to cut my teeth further.[09:10:16] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, yeah, once you have it running :D and even then it's got serious problems[09:10:19] <cshaiku> It'll help get me up to speed[09:10:24] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, you'll need a couple GB free to buidl it also[09:10:41] <cshaiku> don't worry about the space issues, I have plenty. :P[09:10:53] <stef> is there some way to mount ext3 partitions in Haiku?[09:10:57] <umccullough_work> there's no release of Haiku with everything needed to build itself...yet[09:11:02] <umccullough_work> haiku isn't alpha[09:11:11] <DHowett> Can't believe that at 3.0beta you STILL need to restart ff with you add an extension..[09:11:13] <cshaiku> so, you're saying I should build gcc in windows, and copy that over to my Haiku which then gets the ball rolling[09:11:14] <DHowett> when*[09:11:15] <umccullough_work> stef, not that i know of - no ext3 FS driver yet[09:11:32] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, windows? yikes...[09:11:37] <cshaiku> well, its my host os[09:11:43] <umccullough_work> yeah, not gonna work[09:11:52] <cshaiku> hrm.. I have CentOS on my colo[09:11:58] <cshaiku> could build it there and download it?[09:12:06] <umccullough_work> perhaps[09:12:15] <umccullough_work> here, go grab the haikuware weekly super pack[09:12:19] <cshaiku> can't we use Jam to download it?[09:12:22] <umccullough_work> it probably has what you want[09:12:28] <stef> if you have lots of space, why not make an ubuntu VM or something?[09:12:37] <cshaiku> um.. that's retarded[09:13:02] <cshaiku> I have access to my own linux machines elsewhere.[09:13:04] <DHowett> God. "You've installed a theme. Restart firefox." upon starting it, switch themes. "You've switched themes. Restart firefox."[09:13:16] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, that's your best bet - linux[09:13:22] <cshaiku> yeah, think so...[09:13:33] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, you've built it on linux in the past? or not?[09:13:35] <stef> DHowett: you can apply the theme directly after installing[09:13:40] <ari-free> WELL YOU DO KEEP ALL THE TABS THAT YOU'VE ENDED WITH[09:13:43] <DHowett> stef: In 3.0? Awesome :D[09:13:44] <ari-free> whoooops[09:13:55] <cshaiku> umccullough_work: no, never built gcc crosswise like that before[09:13:59] <ari-free> well, you do keep all the tabs that you've ended with[09:14:08] <cshaiku> I mean, targetting haiku/beos, whathave ya[09:14:14] <DHowett> ari-free: I can see how that could have slipped out. I mean, the keys are right next to "Hi"[09:14:20] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, you'll be building a whole toolchain and image[09:14:25] <umccullough_work> http://www.haiku-os.org/documents/dev/building_haiku_on_ubuntu_linux_step_by_step[09:14:39] <cshaiku> oh cool, must have missed that article[09:14:40] <cshaiku> thx[09:14:59] *** tic has joined #haiku[09:15:05] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, once you have all the source, and buildign an image - you'll be looking into build/jam/UserBuildConfig.sample and UserBuildConfig.ReadMe to see how to add optional packages[09:15:18] <cshaiku> ah, pretty basic then.[09:15:22] <cshaiku> svn, check it out, make[09:15:25] <cshaiku> ok, no sweat[09:15:28] <umccullough_work> if you have linux on the same machine that you'll run haiku on - you can even have it build directly to a partition[09:15:34] <umccullough_work> but sounds like that's not gonna be the case ;)[09:15:41] <ari-free> firefox has this tab/window restore feature. that seems like a good idea for the entire OS[09:15:47] <cshaiku> no, not at this time, perhaps I will build a custom box for it later[09:15:54] <stef> DHowett: just tested, works in 2.0 as well[09:15:59] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, you running in a VM?[09:16:01] <DHowett> Stef: really? how?[09:16:02] <umccullough_work> or native?[09:16:30] <cshaiku> running Haiku in a vmware image presently, everything is support on this machine it appears[09:16:33] <DHowett> stef: i'm hanging out on 2.0.0.13, and i click use theme. "Restart firefox to use." ><[09:16:37] <cshaiku> and dang, it was fast as I remember[09:16:41] <stef> DHowett: click install, wait for download, switch to themes tab, click theme, click use theme, restart firefox[09:16:43] <umccullough_work> yeah[09:16:50] <DHowett> stef: Oh, that. Okay[09:16:58] <stef> DHowett: yeah, you still need to restart once, but not twice[09:17:00] <DHowett> stef: wasn't paying attention, thanks :)[09:17:06] <cshaiku> I'm getting svn and such installed now (on the server I'm typing this through in fact)[09:17:11] <cshaiku> my colo is this irc connectio[09:17:12] <cshaiku> n*[09:17:39] <umccullough_work> does centos use apt-get for package management?[09:17:47] <cshaiku> no[09:17:49] <umccullough_work> or is it rpm-base?[09:17:49] <cshaiku> yum[09:17:52] <umccullough_work> ah[09:17:56] <cshaiku> I like it a lot[09:17:58] <umccullough_work> so the package names might be a bit different :)[09:18:05] <cshaiku> yeah, naturally[09:18:10] <umccullough_work> fun fun[09:18:19] <DHowett> Ew, apt and rpm[09:18:21] <cshaiku> naw, I'm comfy with it, its nice to use[09:18:24] <ari-free> centos is full of life![09:18:25] <cshaiku> yum that is[09:18:44] <cshaiku> its what we use on all our servers at work[09:18:58] <cshaiku> and we have roughly 2000 of em, so it must be good. :)[09:19:13] <umccullough_work> i was going to install centos on a spare PIII server i had - but ended up doing debian instead[09:19:25] <umccullough_work> i'm not really familiar with server-based linux stuffs yet[09:19:26] <cshaiku> both are decent choices[09:19:38] <cshaiku> one of our network admins is a huge debian freak[09:19:40] <umccullough_work> and I gotta figure out how to setup software-raid[09:19:50] <cshaiku> no, you don't want that, its shit[09:20:02] <umccullough_work> different recommendation?[09:20:08] <cshaiku> go pay $250 or so for a 3com hardware raid card[09:20:13] <cshaiku> its worth every single penny[09:20:14] <umccullough_work> no go[09:20:21] <umccullough_work> 1U server with a 3-disk backplane[09:20:31] <umccullough_work> adaptec 7xxx controller[09:20:45] <cshaiku> ah.. that's too bad[09:20:50] <umccullough_work> just a junk box[09:20:52] <umccullough_work> got it free[09:20:57] <umccullough_work> actually, i got 6 of them...[09:20:59] <cshaiku> yeah.. feel for ya[09:21:15] <umccullough_work> i was gonna throw linux on a couple and set them up as temporary shit[09:21:16] <cshaiku> skip raid then, and just throw in some backup drives, rsynch[09:21:20] <cshaiku> rsync even[09:21:23] <umccullough_work> rsync...ok[09:21:28] <umccullough_work> just using cron?[09:21:31] <cshaiku> nfs shares, etc[09:21:32] <cshaiku> sure[09:21:48] <cshaiku> make sure you stick a second nic in each though[09:21:55] <umccullough_work> they have dual nic already[09:21:57] <cshaiku> and use cross cables, instead of going through a hub/switch[09:22:14] <umccullough_work> oh, you mean rsync two entire machines![09:22:14] <cshaiku> that way, you avoid any unnecessary bandwidth issues if you're at a hosting facility[09:22:15] <umccullough_work> ok[09:22:26] <cshaiku> well, you can rsync a particular path/drive, etc[09:22:49] * umccullough_work is hosting at his huse[09:22:51] <umccullough_work> house[09:22:58] <cshaiku> hehe.. still standard practice.[09:23:07] <cshaiku> good to do it right or not at all. :P[09:23:11] <umccullough_work> ;)[09:23:25] <umccullough_work> if i showed you pics of my office at home -- you'd choke[09:23:56] <umccullough_work> http://flickr.com/photos/umccullough/1333415219/sizes/o/[09:24:19] <umccullough_work> farmage[09:24:20] <cshaiku> you on facebook?[09:24:37] <umccullough_work> nah[09:24:44] <umccullough_work> I haven't figured out what do with this beast yet: http://flickr.com/photos/umccullough/1333417581/[09:25:01] <umccullough_work> probably ditch it[09:25:04] <DHowett> niiiice..[09:25:05] <DHowett> ditch?![09:25:24] <ari-free> nice rack[09:25:33] <cshaiku> checking out haiku svn now[09:26:10] <cshaiku> that a win box?[09:26:21] <umccullough_work> which?[09:26:29] <cshaiku> that last flickr pic[09:26:30] <umccullough_work> the PE 4200?[09:26:34] <umccullough_work> it *was* ;)[09:26:37] <cshaiku> haha[09:26:40] <cshaiku> can always tell[09:26:49] <umccullough_work> it does say "PRODUCTION EMAIL SERVER" on it[09:26:51] <cshaiku> good for you[09:26:54] <umccullough_work> MSEXCHANGE[09:27:00] <ari-free> whats with the beer?[09:27:08] <umccullough_work> size estimation - per the note[09:27:11] <cshaiku> yeah, most winadmins label their dedicateds like so[09:27:21] <ari-free> ah[09:27:32] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, it actually came from Gupta's HQ in the bay area[09:27:51] <ari-free> pale ale? is that a white beer?[09:27:52] <cshaiku> there's a few customers that run win2k3 with a "router" firewall in front of it before it hits our switches.[09:27:55] <cshaiku> so retarded[09:28:00] <umccullough_work> ari-free, not really[09:28:29] <cshaiku> most of the servers though are centos, rhel, debian, and a few gentoos for good measure. hardly any slack[09:28:36] <cshaiku> I think I remember one slack machine somewhere[09:28:36] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, actually, I haven't put anything on that PE 4200 yet - so it's just sitting on the floor taking up space[09:28:59] <cshaiku> oh, and freebsd.. it's a very friggin awesome os[09:29:13] <cshaiku> very robust from my limited experience so far (6 months now)[09:29:26] <umccullough_work> ari-free, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_ale[09:29:28] <cshaiku> still checking out build tools........ woot[09:29:43] <ari-free> ah[09:29:45] <cshaiku> btw, cshaiku.com now runs a BeShare server[09:29:52] <umccullough_work> nice[09:29:53] <ari-free> and here is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weizenbier[09:29:58] <umccullough_work> beshare should run on Haiku also[09:30:05] <cshaiku> cool, good to know that[09:30:06] <ari-free> which I have yet to try but am intrigued...[09:30:19] <umccullough_work> ari-free, yeah, i like unfiltered wheat beers also[09:30:21] <cshaiku> what's the main beshare server these days?[09:30:27] <DHowett> Argh. I have a squashfs image down to 59 mb. I CAN DO BETTER! ROAR![09:30:43] <cshaiku> DHowett: use dd random a few times. :P[09:30:44] <umccullough_work> hefeweizen FTW![09:30:56] <DHowett> cshaiku: pfft[09:30:59] <cshaiku> hehehe[09:31:01] <umccullough_work> of course, i also drink stouts[09:31:06] <umccullough_work> not much for porters[09:31:14] <DHowett> The largest folder remains /usr[09:31:23] <cshaiku> sbin?[09:31:35] <umccullough_work> cshaiku, the latest version of BeShare from bebits has the main servers already in it IIRC[09:31:38] <umccullough_work> i don't use it any more[09:31:38] <DHowett> with the largest constituent folder within being /usr/lib, then /usr/lib/perl5[09:31:51] <cshaiku> ouch[09:32:09] <ari-free> i saw a show where a baker cooked down some white beer to use in a cookie[09:32:18] <DHowett> It's for a "backup livecd".. i'm making backups, and putting a small bootable linux on them so that I can restore them no matter what :D[09:32:27] <cshaiku> neato[09:32:29] <DHowett> I bet I can do without perl on it[09:32:34] *** absabs has joined #haiku[09:32:44] <cshaiku> well, do you run any scripts on that disc?[09:33:02] <cshaiku> and, did you remove any dev headers for gcc, etc?[09:33:21] <cshaiku> also, unnecessary cli tools? I bet you went through that already though[09:33:38] <DHowett> cshaiku: Not perl scripts.. I'm pretty much removing everything that would use it (automake, autoconf), everything gcc and headers-related, package manager, dev tools, entire categories[09:34:04] <umccullough_work> i need to go home before I pass out from lack of food[09:34:06] <umccullough_work> ttyl[09:34:22] <DHowett> later umccullough_work[09:34:31] *** umccullough_work has quit IRC[09:34:57] <cshaiku> you could safely remove that entire lib folder, sure... I bet you could[09:35:08] <cshaiku> checking out haiku source now. woot[09:35:58] *** Tonik has joined #haiku[09:36:01] <cshaiku> ok, so using jam, it essentially can make a vmware config file and the haiku image one can load in vmware?[09:36:20] <cshaiku> that's so rad... its come a long way from what I remember of Haiku in its early days[09:36:45] <DHowett> cshaiku: Well the config file is in the "3rdparty" folder, but it makes a .vmdk :)[09:37:00] <cshaiku> I have that config file already running here[09:37:07] <cshaiku> if I am reading thigns right[09:37:25] <cshaiku> I'll just need to download to my pc the newly made haiku image from my colo[09:37:30] <DHowett> yep[09:37:35] <cshaiku> rad[09:37:37] <cshaiku> rad rad rad[09:38:11] <cshaiku> about how big would the image be?[09:38:41] <DHowett> default is 100 mb in the jamfiles I think[09:38:44] <cshaiku> cause the vmware image I got from build factory originally was 31mb[09:38:49] <cshaiku> ok, decent[09:38:54] <DHowett> it can be changed[09:39:03] <cshaiku> with jam, you mean?[09:39:04] <DHowett> yep.[09:39:18] <DHowett> check out build/jam/UserBuildConfig.ReadMe[09:39:28] <DHowett> (got the squash down to 51mb :))[09:39:32] <cshaiku> yeah, noticed that earlier today[09:39:39] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[09:39:52] <cshaiku> I suggested to mmu to remove the .[09:40:04] <cshaiku> and therefore reduce confusion of people trying to remove .ReadMe[09:40:09] <cshaiku> and expecting it to work[09:40:38] <DHowett> ahh[09:41:03] <cshaiku> I added digg support to haikunews today.[09:41:10] <cshaiku> now, you can digg any article[09:41:44] <DHowett> .. SO THAT'S where that came from![09:41:48] <DHowett> you![09:41:49] <DHowett> awesome :P[09:41:50] <cshaiku> what?[09:42:00] <DHowett> I noticed it today before I registered[09:42:08] <cshaiku> where did you register?[09:42:19] <DHowett> ... HAH, wrong site. I'm insane![09:42:19] <DHowett> :)[09:42:20] *** skoe has quit IRC[09:42:30] * cshaiku hands DHowett some meds[09:42:36] <DHowett> thank you, thank you[09:42:37] <DHowett> :D[09:42:39] <cshaiku> heh[09:42:55] <cshaiku> there's so much to catch up on again.. sigh[09:43:16] <cshaiku> I feel like a kid in a candy store[09:43:19] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[09:43:32] *** Tonik has quit IRC[09:45:01] *** andrewbachmann has joined #haiku[09:45:02] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o andrewbachmann[09:45:08] <cshaiku> andrewbachmann![09:45:11] <cshaiku> ltns[09:45:21] <andrewbachmann> hey[09:45:26] <cshaiku> <-- technix[09:45:32] <andrewbachmann> sure[09:45:33] <andrewbachmann> :-)[09:45:34] <cshaiku> heh[09:45:41] <cshaiku> how you doing man?[09:45:52] <cshaiku> you still got your head in space? :P[09:45:58] <andrewbachmann> doing ok[09:46:03] <andrewbachmann> still @nasa[09:46:08] <cshaiku> good to hear[09:46:22] <cshaiku> did they promote you yet? hehe[09:47:04] <andrewbachmann> nope[09:47:09] <cshaiku> aw[09:47:16] <cshaiku> I'm glad you're doing ok[09:47:30] <cshaiku> what's new in the last couple of years?[09:47:41] <cshaiku> I move back from NL to Canada, in 2006[09:48:12] <andrewbachmann> married now[09:48:17] <cshaiku> congrats[09:48:50] <andrewbachmann> she grew up in china so I've been to china a handful of times now[09:48:55] <cshaiku> We're planning that in a few years time, after we settle into a nice place, and such[09:49:20] <cshaiku> I'm back with my ex whom I met on PEI long ago[09:49:43] <cshaiku> you still programming?[09:49:59] <andrewbachmann> recently yes[09:50:12] <cshaiku> good to hear, it seems like 2008 is a resurgance year for a lot of people[09:50:25] <cshaiku> haikunews is back as well[09:50:38] *** rsanches has joined #haiku[09:50:59] <cshaiku> I might hit you up for a status update in a few months, just to see how you are doing[09:51:11] <andrewbachmann> ok[09:51:12] <cshaiku> you'll have someting to say by then?[09:51:14] <DHowett> Watch somebody buy rights to the name Be and buy rights back from ACCESS.. talk about a resurgence[09:51:23] <cshaiku> DHowett: we can dream[09:51:43] <cshaiku> that would be pretty damn neat[09:51:44] <ari-free> do we really want that?[09:51:56] <DHowett> It's a bad dream for me.. conflict with haiku muchly[09:52:01] <cshaiku> hehe[09:52:04] <andrewbachmann> does anybody here have the haiku tree checked out[09:52:13] <cshaiku> I am checking it out now, as we speak[09:52:14] <DHowett> I do[09:52:40] <aroman> me too[09:52:47] <andrewbachmann> can you make some changes and send me a recompiled nvidia driver?[09:53:10] <ari-free> i'd like haiku to have its own identity. it's not as if Be didn't make any mistakes...[09:53:13] <DHowett> Like, packaged or strictly the driver binary? if just the binary, I could[09:53:24] <andrewbachmann> either way[09:53:43] <cshaiku> ari-free: you're right, and have a great point[09:54:04] <DHowett> andrewbachmann: Sure.[09:54:18] <cshaiku> it would diminish the hard work of Haiku to go back to any sort of Be image (cannot think of the exact word I'm feeling)[09:54:31] <DHowett> cshaiku: Indeed it would.[09:54:32] <cshaiku> stature? naw...[09:54:33] <ari-free> on the other hand i have noticed that there is a lot of sentiment about what be was trying to do. people love the icons[09:54:43] <DHowett> I love the icons[09:54:45] <cshaiku> tokenism[09:54:57] <cshaiku> you get my drift I think[09:55:04] <aroman> beos/haiku is lean and clean... i really like it...[09:55:09] <DHowett> and personally feel that stippi's iconset is a TINY BIT lacking.. i miss the checkmark for pref icons ;)[09:55:13] <DHowett> i liked zuMi[09:55:29] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[09:55:32] <aroman> the only reason I haven't used beos over the years is the acceptance... it hasn't been widely accepted and thus has suffered from a shortage of applications[09:55:35] <ari-free> people want the old Be...before the Be of the strange ear with the squiggly lines[09:55:38] <cshaiku> ari-free: I guess striking a balance is key here. we want to pay homage to Be, and still respect the hard work Haiku has achieved, and will continue to build on[09:56:18] <cshaiku> the old Be was R3/R4 days[09:56:29] <cshaiku> man, that company rocked the casba![09:56:35] <ari-free> yeah and the bebox with the geekport[09:56:37] <cshaiku> mmm[09:56:52] <cshaiku> which resembled the USB 2.0 port we know today[09:56:56] <cshaiku> they were ahead of their time in many ways[09:57:01] <cshaiku> don't get me started, I'll tear up[09:57:25] <DHowett> That's just the neurotoxin.[09:57:30] <cshaiku> lol[09:57:38] <cshaiku> maybe lack of food[09:57:40] <cshaiku> I"m hungry[09:57:58] <ari-free> whats with all these hungry people[09:58:23] <ari-free> hehe[09:58:38] <DHowett> mmm, food ;)[09:59:19] <andrewbachmann> so, anybody who wants to help, I need these changes made in these files:[09:59:32] <andrewbachmann> SetDisplayMode lines 299 to 301, remove calls to nv_acc_init and nv_acc_init_dma[09:59:51] <andrewbachmann> GetAccelerantHook.c lines 119 to 126, remove calls to CHKA[10:00:12] <ari-free> it's like amiga. on the one hand people want to remember the amiga of video toaster and Shadow on the beast. on the other hand, amiga reminds people of a bunch of crazy people who will never give up their 68k cpu and grey icons[10:00:14] <andrewbachmann> EngineManagment.c lines 74 to 76 remove nv_acc_wait_idle and nv_acc_wait_idle_dma[10:00:41] * JonathanThompson lobs a greeting at andrewbachmann[10:00:48] <andrewbachmann> hi JT[10:00:57] <JonathanThompson> How's the job situation?[10:01:26] <andrewbachmann> looks like my search will begin more in earnest real soon now[10:01:42] <JonathanThompson> And that includes this area as well?[10:01:45] * cshaiku lobs an andrewbachmann at JonathanThompson[10:01:53] <DHowett> andrewbachmann: jamming[10:01:58] * JonathanThompson catches him, juggles him with cshaiku[10:02:05] <cshaiku> woot![10:02:55] <JonathanThompson> Wait, since I saw you in CA you got hitched???[10:03:03] <JonathanThompson> I thought that was going to wait a bit more![10:03:08] <DHowett> andrewbachmann: you just need nvidia.accelerant?[10:03:27] * JonathanThompson feels so singly alone[10:03:47] <DHowett> andrewbachmann: Should I book the haiku image and zip it there to preserve attributes?[10:04:06] <andrewbachmann> I don't think the attributes matter[10:04:18] <andrewbachmann> both the nvidia and nvidia.accelerant please[10:05:03] <DHowett> andrewbachmann: so from add-ons/accelerants and add-ons/kernel/drivers?[10:05:08] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[10:05:12] <Stargater> moin[10:05:19] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[10:05:25] <andrewbachmann> yeah[10:05:26] <cshaiku> howdee Stargater[10:05:37] <Stargater> hi cshaiku[10:05:48] <DHowett> andrewbachmann: http://dhowett.rh.rit.edu/~dustin/nvidia.zip[10:05:49] <Stargater> ah andrewbachmann hello java :-)[10:06:27] <cshaiku> dang, up to 4300 targets so far[10:06:46] <cshaiku> god, I remember there only being like 1000 intially? lol[10:07:31] <andrewbachmann> hi Stargater[10:07:36] <andrewbachmann> restarting now to try it DHowett[10:07:42] *** andrewbachmann has quit IRC[10:07:43] <DHowett> andrewbachmann: best of luck[10:09:38] *** AndrevS has quit IRC[10:11:36] <DHowett> oh god i hope i didn't kill him[10:11:48] <DHowett> oh god i hope he needed gcc2 binaries ;)[10:12:34] *** JonathanThompson has joined #haiku[10:13:12] * JonathanThompson wonders what combination of things he did to kill Conversation when trying to view a song playlist[10:13:34] <DHowett> NIcely done ;)[10:14:01] * JonathanThompson grumbles that the OS X Terminal doesn't seem to support page up/down in less[10:15:01] <ddew|bofh> h'morning[10:15:12] <DHowett> Oh god I think I killed ihm.[10:15:13] <ddew|bofh> *g'morning[10:15:14] <DHowett> him*[10:15:22] <JonathanThompson> Who did you kill?[10:15:25] <DHowett> (04:07:36 AM) andrewbachmann: restarting now to try it DHowett[10:17:41] <DHowett> I imagine it doesn't take him this long to return from restarting.. I think I killed somebody! I need to wash my hands. Of the blood. ;)[10:18:50] <cshaiku> ...skipped canna for lack of libbe.so...[10:18:50] <cshaiku> ...skipped <HaikuImage>haiku.image-copy-files-dummy-optional/beos/system/add-ons/input_server/methods for lack of canna...[10:18:52] <cshaiku> InitScript1 generated/haiku.image-unzip-files[10:18:55] <cshaiku> ...skipped haiku.image for lack of <HaikuImage>haiku.image-init-vars...[10:18:57] <cshaiku> ...failed updating 12 target(s)...[10:19:00] <cshaiku> ...skipped 646 target(s)...[10:19:02] <cshaiku> ...updated 8105 target(s)...[10:19:08] <DHowett> lack of libbe.so .. O_O[10:19:10] <cshaiku> soo......... do I have an image, is the question[10:19:17] <DHowett> did you jam it with -q or not[10:19:21] <cshaiku> not[10:19:29] <DHowett> re-do it with -q[10:19:32] <DHowett> jam -q haiku-image or whatever[10:19:33] <cshaiku> I hate you[10:19:36] <cshaiku> :P[10:19:43] <DHowett> anything it's already compiled will still be compiled ;)[10:19:45] <DHowett> like[10:19:46] <DHowett> i mean[10:19:47] <DHowett> not recompiled[10:19:59] <DHowett> but -q will cause it to exit on the first error[10:20:08] <DHowett> so we might see why there's a lack of libbe[10:20:24] <cshaiku> ah[10:20:49] * JonathanThompson loves being given an exact set of instructions on how to convert data, and then being handed data that doesn't make sense all the time[10:21:00] <cshaiku> ah, missing bison[10:21:13] <JonathanThompson> cshaiku: all for the lack of a horseshoe nail ;)[10:21:20] <JonathanThompson> Or, in this case, a Haikushoe nail![10:21:31] <ari-free> bless you![10:21:35] * cshaiku nails JonathanThompson to the wall[10:21:42] * JonathanThompson has felt that way a lot lately[10:21:49] *** andrewbachmann has joined #haiku[10:21:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o andrewbachmann[10:22:05] <ari-free> he's....ALIVE![10:22:06] <DHowett> andrewbachmann: oh please god tell me I didn't kill you[10:22:07] * ddew|bofh wants his monitor's native resolution on a FX5200[10:22:15] <JonathanThompson> Nah, he's Memorex![10:22:16] <ddew|bofh> the 5200 works wonderfully on haiku[10:22:23] <andrewbachmann> no, but the driver doesn't seem to recognize my mb[10:22:27] <DHowett> hmm....[10:22:33] <JonathanThompson> You'll just have to settle for an immigrant resolution, ddew|bofh ;)[10:22:40] <andrewbachmann> maybe my patches were not correct[10:22:45] <ddew|bofh> but it's tiny :([10:22:48] <ddew|bofh> :P[10:22:52] <DHowett> ddew|bofh: Here, we brought this one in from Latveria[10:22:59] <JonathanThompson> Sounds like a personal problem to me, ddew|bofh ;)[10:23:20] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i walked right into that one :)[10:23:33] <ddew|bofh> i'm blaming lack of coffee[10:23:36] <JonathanThompson> Hope you weren't fully deployed when you did :D[10:23:46] * JonathanThompson should be sleeping right now[10:23:49] <cshaiku> ok, its linking and chmod now[10:24:53] <cshaiku> Creating image ...[10:24:53] <cshaiku> Writing boot code to "generated/haiku.vmdk" (partition offset: 0 bytes) ...[10:24:53] <cshaiku> Populating image ...[10:24:53] <cshaiku> Deleting old MIME database ...[10:24:53] <cshaiku> Installing MIME database ...[10:24:55] <cshaiku> Unmounting ...[10:24:58] <cshaiku> ...updated 823 target(s)...[10:25:00] <cshaiku> sweeeet[10:25:05] *** andrewbachmann has quit IRC[10:25:57] * JonathanThompson populates cshaiku's image[10:26:14] * JonathanThompson abuses the language just a little bit more[10:27:30] <DHowett> Populate then unmount, of course ;)[10:27:37] <DHowett> Populating all over the place[10:27:38] <DHowett> okay, ew.[10:27:42] <cshaiku> downloading it now to this box[10:27:45] * JonathanThompson unmounts cshaiku[10:27:56] <cshaiku> so then, I should be able to self-host with it?[10:27:57] <JonathanThompson> Ack![10:28:08] <JonathanThompson> That could sound rather sordid, depending on the mind of the reader ;)[10:28:17] <cshaiku> don't make me fsck you JonathanThompson, I don't want to get bad clusters again[10:28:23] <DHowett> JonathanThompson: I have a terrible mind. Terrible. :P[10:28:34] <JonathanThompson> Here I thought you were fully journaled, cshaiku ;)[10:28:44] <DHowett> Q: Why did I just try to tab-complete a URL? A: it's 4:30 AM.[10:28:53] <cshaiku> With that mind of yours, who knows what kind of parity errors we'd find[10:29:08] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps you'd have perty errors instead ;)[10:29:33] <cshaiku> no, you're mistaking my journalism for a journaled file system. :)[10:29:41] * JonathanThompson wonders if people will beat a path to his door if he invents a better moose trap[10:30:04] <cshaiku> maybe, maybe not, but what would you do with the moose droppings?[10:30:06] <JonathanThompson> You need to get meat for dinner for a year in Canada, right, cshaiku?[10:30:13] <JonathanThompson> Fertilizer![10:30:25] <cshaiku> naw, I have an ice hole outside my igloo door[10:30:36] * JonathanThompson drops a moose on cshaiku[10:30:40] <cshaiku> :P[10:30:45] <JonathanThompson> Of course, I can tell you his name![10:30:48] <JonathanThompson> A non-...[10:30:52] <cshaiku> oh no[10:30:59] <cshaiku> no you din't[10:31:00] * DHowett braces self[10:31:06] <JonathanThompson> Too late, DHowett![10:31:09] <ari-free> {self}[10:31:50] * JonathanThompson awaits the day bash goes all object-oriented[10:33:09] <ari-free> I want an OS my mom can use.[10:33:11] <JonathanThompson> I'd love to punch the idiot that decided to support functions in shell scripting that couldn't modify things by reference, and only uses things by value, and can only return an error value.[10:33:28] * JonathanThompson suggests VRTX[10:33:42] <ari-free> well she misses VMS[10:33:43] <JonathanThompson> She'll never even know it has an OS![10:33:56] <JonathanThompson> (VRTX= hard real-time embedded OS)[10:34:42] *** skoe has joined #haiku[10:35:12] <bombuzal> <ari-free> I want an OS my mom can use. <-- Win3.1 with MS BOB :}[10:35:20] <ari-free> does it have versioning and a shell that wasn't designed by monkeys?[10:35:27] <JonathanThompson> Shell???[10:35:28] *** _Tek is now known as Teknomancer[10:35:53] <JonathanThompson> As I said: your mother could use it and never know she was using an OS, and, it's embedded ;)[10:36:21] <aroman> hmm... is there any way to test changes in applications without rebuilding the VMWare image all the time? I develop on a Mac and run Haiku in VMWare... for now at least[10:36:26] * JonathanThompson never used a shell in VRTX, and only saw it via the serial port debugger run from the Borland debugger[10:36:29] <PulkoMandy> the thing is, don't use it on a computer, but on a toaster :)[10:36:49] <ari-free> my mom is a software engineer...[10:36:53] <JonathanThompson> Oh no, PulkoMandy, it was used for industrial machinery much more powerful and dangerous than a toaster :D[10:37:04] <JonathanThompson> (Probably still is)[10:37:30] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps she'd like it, then: a system that supports virtual memory, but doesn't use (or at least doesn't need) a swap file :)[10:38:11] <JonathanThompson> (Probably not many things she'd find to run on it if she didn't write them herself, though, and Haiku likely has more useful drivers for generic hardware)[10:38:32] <cshaiku> aroman: you might be able to once the self-hosting features are more robust[10:38:47] <cshaiku> it appears that way to me[10:38:51] <ari-free> well she programs databases and accounting systems...I think you'd need some swap space for that[10:38:53] * JonathanThompson contemplates the fact that Santa is elf-hosting[10:38:56] *** TheNerd_ has joined #haiku[10:39:13] <JonathanThompson> No, you really don't, if you do it right, ari-free.[10:39:38] <burfi> death to the swap file[10:39:55] <JonathanThompson> kill -KILL swap-daemon[10:40:14] <ari-free> but all the data...[10:40:42] * JonathanThompson would love to see how fast Windows 3.11 for Workgroups would run under an emulator on his iMac with 256 MB RAM allowed for it[10:41:10] <JonathanThompson> ari-free, you've been raised with too nice of hardware available and the lax patterns that creates ;)[10:41:32] <PulkoMandy> JonathanThompson: i dont think ms-dos can handle that many memory[10:41:41] <ari-free> hehehe[10:41:45] <PulkoMandy> himem stops at 64M or something like that[10:41:50] <JonathanThompson> Windows 3.11 with EMM-386 should work.[10:42:00] *** DHowett has left #haiku[10:42:03] <JonathanThompson> Is it only that much? I thought I heard someone using 256 megs once...[10:42:15] <PulkoMandy> there are patched emm386 wich will handle it[10:42:31] <JonathanThompson> Oh well, I don't think I have all the floppies, and even if I did... I don't have a floppy drive to load it with on this![10:43:05] <ari-free> oh yeah...apple[10:43:06] * JonathanThompson could rent a skeet-shooting rifle to use on all his old 5.25" and 3.5" floppies[10:43:47] <PulkoMandy> i still have working original floppies for both win3.11 and 95[10:43:58] <PulkoMandy> and even a computer with 3.11 installed :p[10:44:06] <JonathanThompson> I have what are probably still-working floppies for the Apple 2 :D[10:44:18] * JonathanThompson needs to find an Apple 2 to verify[10:44:29] <ari-free> what, you think it will be worth something as an antique? :)[10:44:30] <JonathanThompson> At least, I think I still do...[10:44:51] <JonathanThompson> Well, there were some things I wrote that I'd like to retrieve...[10:44:54] <JonathanThompson> (Not code)[10:45:06] *** TheNerd__ has joined #haiku[10:45:16] <umccullough> cshaiku, still around?[10:45:27] <JonathanThompson> I killed him with my words, umccullough :)[10:45:31] <umccullough> :)[10:45:37] <umccullough> no surprise[10:45:38] <ari-free> he said he was hungry[10:45:47] <umccullough> yeah, i just wolfed down some food myself[10:45:51] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps he was trying out my better moose trap.[10:45:51] <umccullough> 1:45AM :P[10:46:10] *** aroman has quit IRC[10:46:13] <ari-free> a lot of meat in a moose[10:46:18] * JonathanThompson has an idea for a t-shirt[10:46:33] * umccullough vpn's into his work network to continue where he left off[10:47:21] <ari-free> I have one. it's a pic of the people icon. Haiku. it's made of People![10:47:32] <umccullough> shit. my database build failed at work[10:47:42] <JonathanThompson> Soylent Green meets FOSS OS :)[10:47:55] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[10:48:11] <ari-free> or: "People who love Haiku are the luckiest people in the world"[10:48:32] <JonathanThompson> Or "Haiku girls are easy" :)[10:48:42] *** andrewbachmann has joined #haiku[10:48:43] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o andrewbachmann[10:49:04] *** aroman has joined #haiku[10:49:43] <ari-free> (picture of haiku crushing MSFT) "Poetic justice[10:50:06] * JonathanThompson wonders when Haiku will first be ported to the iPhone[10:50:21] <umccullough> "I will Haiku to pieces"[10:50:26] <JonathanThompson> Nothing like restarting the cycle of having the OS run natively on available Apple hardware :)[10:51:38] <ari-free> "I came. I saw. haiku"[10:51:39] <Teknomancer> is iPhone 2.0 supposed to be released soon?[10:51:46] <Teknomancer> i heard something about a new version[10:51:49] <JonathanThompson> The firmware/SDK?[10:51:52] <cshaiku> yes[10:51:53] <Teknomancer> no the actual hardware[10:51:57] <umccullough> i heard they're working on a 3g version[10:52:02] <JonathanThompson> What do you define as iPhone 2.0? :)[10:52:13] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson: sorry added the ".0" :)[10:52:15] <JonathanThompson> If you mean 2.0 as in 3G, well, we'll see.[10:52:16] <Teknomancer> iphone2[10:52:36] <Teknomancer> i inadvertedly revealed my software side :P[10:52:39] <JonathanThompson> I've got the 2.0 SDK beta here, though no firmware and I can't download to my phone :([10:52:59] * JonathanThompson announces Teknomancer 2.01 (had a few release bugs)[10:53:25] <ari-free> iPhone part Deux[10:53:28] <Teknomancer> i think the next version will automatically send SMS with your GPS location to MPAA/RIAA when you try to play non-DRM music :P[10:54:05] <ari-free> iPhone Begins[10:54:07] <JonathanThompson> Nah, Apple doesn't really want DRM: they only want you to buy their hardware, and their DRM is a concession to allow them to sell that music :D[10:54:32] <ari-free> iPhone Revenge of the Sith[10:54:36] <JonathanThompson> I think Apple would be perfectly happy giving all music away for completely free, since they don't really make money on the music part.[10:54:42] <Teknomancer> i found it really weird when I heard about it being tied to AT&T and requires hackish unlocks that void warranty...[10:54:52] <Teknomancer> never heard a phone manufacturer do that before[10:54:53] <JonathanThompson> The music serves as a way to sell hardware, that's about all, really.[10:54:54] <Teknomancer> true innovation[10:56:28] <JonathanThompson> Unless my understanding of their music/iPod strategy is incorrect, they sell it at a price where they don't really do more than break even for the music, and make the money on the hardware.[10:56:56] <JonathanThompson> After all, if they could give away all the music for free, people would still need to buy huge capacity iPods to carry it around with, if they're into that sort of thing ;)[10:57:30] <Teknomancer> selling music is actually fine, its just that non-ability to use iTunes from my OS of choice makes it sucky :P[10:57:49] <JonathanThompson> Ok, so the margin OS's don't have native iTunes...[10:57:51] <ari-free> so Apple really wants to be a hardware company?[10:58:01] <JonathanThompson> For the most part, they've always been one.[10:58:05] <JonathanThompson> More of a TUE company.[10:58:09] <JonathanThompson> Software+hardware.[10:58:43] <ari-free> i thought they'd want to move to a software model like microsoft[10:58:44] <JonathanThompson> If they wanted to only really be software, surely there'd be Leopard available for generic PC hardware by now.[10:59:00] <JonathanThompson> You can't control the TUE as well with only software.[10:59:24] <JonathanThompson> Microsoft is still a software company that dabbles in hardware.[10:59:29] <ari-free> well, they don't want to have to develop and test for all kinds of configs[10:59:49] <JonathanThompson> And Apple could be said to more dabble in software, but in order to support their hardware sales, primarily.[10:59:53] <Teknomancer> didn't M$ make good money with xbox360?[10:59:56] <ari-free> but profit margin for hardware is pretty small[10:59:57] <JonathanThompson> That's part of it, ari-free.[11:00:01] <Teknomancer> seeing that PS3 is so ridiculously overpriced[11:00:03] <andrewbachmann> hmm can I get someone else to build me the nvidia accelerant with those changes?[11:00:17] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps they're finally starting to recover all they've sunk into XBox with the 360, Teknomancer.[11:00:22] <Teknomancer> ari-free: hm, i actually think there's a lot more revenue in hardware than software these days[11:00:24] *** TheNerd_ has quit IRC[11:00:33] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson: ah, right[11:00:39] <JonathanThompson> ari-free, Apple has found a niche where as long as they control the TUE, the margin isn't small.[11:00:48] <Teknomancer> TUE ?[11:00:53] <JonathanThompson> The clone makers have thin margins.[11:00:58] <Teknomancer> sorry if i imissed it[11:00:59] <JonathanThompson> Total User Experience, Teknomancer.[11:01:12] <umccullough> andrewbachmann, you need that for R5?[11:01:12] <Teknomancer> ah yes they're a bit too userfriendly[11:01:13] <ari-free> well what they have done with the all in one...that's hard for the clones[11:01:14] <Teknomancer> :P[11:01:25] <andrewbachmann> yes umccullough[11:01:28] <umccullough> :([11:01:29] <JonathanThompson> Apple, as big a they are, can't compete on price alone and make a good profit: they have to bundle in desirable software.[11:01:35] <umccullough> my beos machines are all toast, atm[11:01:41] <andrewbachmann> well, I could try it for haiku[11:01:49] <umccullough> andrewbachmann, i have a vmware image with R5 on it actually...[11:01:53] * JonathanThompson hands umccullough some digital butter[11:02:09] <ari-free> hmm so that's why they like imacs and laptops so much[11:02:14] <JonathanThompson> ari-free, they made it work well without crapware :)[11:02:18] <ari-free> it's all about case design[11:02:34] <JonathanThompson> (Besides it not being ugly as most generic PC's are)[11:02:47] <umccullough> andrewbachmann, word of caution - right now the nvidia driver appears to sucks on Haiku - screen gets all garbled[11:02:58] <umccullough> ever since the recent MTRR changes being done[11:03:25] <cshaiku> can someone explain how this whole cross-tools works for Haiku?[11:03:27] <andrewbachmann> well, that would an improvement[11:03:30] <burfi> 32 bit color is broken[11:03:43] <burfi> 16 bit is ok[11:03:48] * JonathanThompson goes to couch[11:03:50] *** nils_t has quit IRC[11:03:57] <ari-free> apple has a sense of the latest pop culture[11:04:04] <ari-free> that's very hard to copy[11:04:13] <umccullough> cshaiku, what you need to know?[11:04:20] <umccullough> i'm willing to break it down :)[11:04:27] <Teknomancer> i'm yet to experience any Mac laptops/PCs/iPhone/iPod :)[11:04:31] <andrewbachmann> brb[11:04:34] <Teknomancer> my bro has an iPod but i've never used it[11:04:35] *** andrewbachmann has quit IRC[11:04:38] <cshaiku> basically, I was under the impression that by using the cross-tools option when configuring, it'd be part of the built Haiku image?[11:04:50] <umccullough> nope[11:05:00] <cshaiku> ok, therein lies my confusion[11:05:16] <cshaiku> so, I notice they are made, however. Are those binaries Haiku compatible at this point?[11:05:20] <umccullough> on a linux box, the ./configure --build-cross-tools just builds a compiler for your host platform that can compile haiku binaries[11:05:25] <umccullough> no[11:05:26] <ari-free> i remember when imacs looked like toilets. now they are very stylish[11:05:28] <cshaiku> OH..[11:05:30] *** TheNerd has quit IRC[11:05:34] <umccullough> cshaiku, those are there to compile haiku ;)[11:05:36] <cshaiku> duh.. ok, I see.[11:05:43] <cshaiku> well then...[11:05:50] <umccullough> you're on 32bit linux right?[11:05:54] <cshaiku> yes[11:05:57] <umccullough> must be...[11:06:04] <cshaiku> I made the image just fine, am running it now[11:06:05] *** andrewbachmann has joined #haiku[11:06:06] <umccullough> otherwise you would have choked trying to build the gcc2 compiler[11:06:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o andrewbachmann[11:06:14] <andrewbachmann> my haiku is not happy at the moment[11:06:18] <umccullough> cshaiku, ok, so the image you created probably won't have anything extra on it[11:06:25] <cshaiku> revision 24789[11:06:30] <umccullough> once you confirm it works, i'll tell you what to do to add extras :)[11:06:37] <cshaiku> I confirm it works[11:06:57] <umccullough> cool, ok - now go into the build/jam folder and copy UserBuildConfig.sample to UserBuildConig[11:07:02] <cshaiku> I basically want to get to the point where I can check out via svn, and compile[11:07:06] <umccullough> UserBuildConfig that is[11:07:10] <cshaiku> sec[11:07:35] <cshaiku> ok, done[11:07:42] <umccullough> cshaiku, at this point, you can use that linux box to svn up && jam -q haiku-vmware-image whenever you need one :)[11:08:03] <umccullough> ok, so in that UserBuildConfig - you'll see some lines already in there - you'll want to read UserBuildConfig.ReadMe to understand how all those settings wrok[11:08:05] <umccullough> work[11:08:06] <cshaiku> ok, figured that might be the case, but I'd still like to be able to gcc inside the haiku image[11:08:09] <cshaiku> for Vision, etc[11:08:14] <umccullough> you'll want to increase your image size first I suspect[11:08:18] <umccullough> make it big[11:08:38] <umccullough> then you'll want to add the optionalpackages - Development Vision Pe, etc.[11:08:56] <cshaiku> hrm, starting to see the point earlier about a local vmware ubuntu[11:09:01] <umccullough> Development will add a pre-compiled GCC, dependencies, and headers[11:09:17] <umccullough> yeah, lot easier to build it local :/[11:09:34] *** nils_1 has joined #haiku[11:09:51] <umccullough> a note: the optional packages are just downloaded and unzipped onto the image at build time - they are not compiled on the fly[11:10:15] <umccullough> you'll see in the build/jam/OptionalPackages where it's getting them and what jam rules it's using to put them onto the image[11:10:28] <umccullough> some are simple, some are not :P[11:10:34] <umccullough> hang on, brb[11:11:11] *** umccullough_x has joined #haiku[11:11:15] <cshaiku> 250mb big enough for optional packages?[11:11:22] <umccullough_x> barely[11:11:28] <umccullough_x> i'd go at least 500[11:11:33] <cshaiku> ugh[11:11:36] <cshaiku> sigh.[11:11:43] <umccullough_x> and if you plan to attempt a haiku self-host - you'll want several GB[11:11:56] <umccullough_x> it should zip down small though[11:12:03] <umccullough_x> since it's mostly just freespace[11:12:08] <cshaiku> yeah, I think I shall get a vmware ubuntu going here.[11:12:17] <umccullough_x> ok[11:12:27] <umccullough_x> xubuntu rocks :)[11:12:30] <umccullough_x> that's what i'm on now[11:14:06] <umccullough_x> I just reinstalled this machine with an 80gb SATA disk...so it doesn't have haiku on it yet...[11:14:17] <umccullough_x> just getting ready to build it in fact :)[11:14:23] <cshaiku> nice[11:16:07] <cshaiku> hrm.. not having a good result for xubuntu vmware image[11:16:14] <cshaiku> found a torrent, but its not seeded[11:16:26] <umccullough_x> bummer[11:17:50] <cshaiku> sweet.. found a centos image[11:18:00] <cshaiku> I'm going to use that, its' only 400mb[11:18:11] <cshaiku> and, I can simply run that to compile haiku, etc[11:19:52] <cshaiku> mmmmm 1.2Mbit torrent speeds[11:20:04] <cshaiku> jesus, 2Mbit now[11:20:13] <cshaiku> 3[11:20:20] <cshaiku> dang, this is a fast torrent[11:20:22] <geist> WHEN WILL IT END[11:20:24] <umccullough> whee![11:20:30] <cshaiku> halfway done already[11:20:37] <cshaiku> just downloaded 200MB in about 2 mns[11:20:42] <umccullough> 'morning geist[11:20:58] <umccullough> geist, did you get haiku built on your mac?[11:21:12] <geist> oh i got bored and did something else[11:21:16] <umccullough> heh[11:21:26] <geist> such is how fickle i am[11:21:49] <umccullough> yeah, i gather[11:23:07] <cshaiku> how you doing geist[11:24:28] <geist> oh doing okay i guess[11:24:37] <geist> workin a bit late, but about to sleep[11:27:51] <cshaiku> sleep is over rated :P[11:38:53] *** uranium has joined #haiku[11:39:21] <cshaiku> ok folks, cya in a bit, days, etc, I too am going to sleep[11:40:25] <uranium> hello[11:40:33] <uranium> what were talking about today?[11:41:59] *** aroman has quit IRC[11:43:49] <uranium> hello is it possible to implement desktop compositing like XGL ?[11:45:18] <umccullough_x> AGG supports that stuff in 2d[11:45:32] <uranium> what is AAG ?[11:45:43] <umccullough_x> AGG is Anti-Grain-Geometry[11:46:02] <umccullough_x> it's used for the backend rendering of the app_server currently[11:46:06] <uranium> its like 2D accelerator like quartz or directdraw?[11:46:28] <umccullough_x> sorta - it's not accelerated per-se[11:46:33] <umccullough_x> look it up :)[11:47:11] *** andrewbachmann has quit IRC[11:47:16] <uranium> where? from svn?[11:47:21] <umccullough_x> google it[11:47:34] <umccullough_x> it's not specific to haiku[11:48:10] <uranium> ok got it[11:48:39] <uranium> i want to contribute something to haiku... but still dont know what...[11:48:50] <uranium> any ideas?[11:48:55] <umccullough_x> not i, sorry :([11:52:51] <uranium> i see that AAG on font rasterization is very nice[11:52:56] <uranium> its already implemented?[11:53:33] <umccullough> I think so[11:53:50] <umccullough> I believe freetype is used to generate the vector glyphs and agg is responsible for rasterizing them[11:54:12] <umccullough> stippi is the one to talk to[11:54:21] <umccullough> he mostly implemented that backend[11:54:23] <uranium> this one is awesome -> http://www.antigrain.com/research/font_rasterization/sample_arial_01.png[11:55:29] <umccullough> yeah, this one always impressed me also: http://antigrain.com/research/font_rasterization/sample_arial_1tenth_shift.png[11:55:44] <umccullough> 3 pixels shift[11:56:25] <uranium> hahaha ic... its shifted...[11:56:36] <umccullough> yeah, 3 pixels over 30 lines[11:56:46] <umccullough> that's pretty cool[11:56:49] <uranium> but why dont see it on vmware image[11:56:54] <umccullough> see what?[11:57:06] <uranium> the font is not so smooth as it[11:57:36] <umccullough> I'm not sure exactly - I think the freetype hinting is in "crap mode" still[11:57:42] <umccullough> because of the patents[11:57:55] <umccullough> really, you should ask on the haiku-development list[11:58:00] <umccullough> there is already a discussion about it going[11:58:01] <uranium> damn... patents really hurt...[11:58:11] <uranium> where is it?[11:58:12] <umccullough> yeah, that's the apple patent, btw[11:58:16] *** PieterPan has joined #haiku[11:58:22] <umccullough> you aren't sub'd to the mailling lists?[11:58:31] <uranium> nope[11:59:00] <uranium> so Apple use the same technique as AAG ?[11:59:15] <umccullough> http://www.freelists.org/archives/openbeos/04-2008/msg00023.html[11:59:23] <uranium> AFAIK the results is different[11:59:30] <umccullough> no, not agg[11:59:31] <umccullough> freetype[11:59:45] <umccullough> hinting and AA are different things[11:59:55] <uranium> apple use freetype ?[11:59:58] <umccullough> no[12:00:16] <umccullough> freetype provides an optional font hinting algorithm that apple has patented[12:00:29] <uranium> ic[12:00:39] <uranium> so there is no alternative which produce the same result?[12:00:39] <umccullough> i really can't explain it well[12:00:56] <umccullough> you can use freetype and turn on the patented hinting[12:01:08] <umccullough> it's just a switch in a header somwhere[12:01:13] <uranium> ic[12:01:15] <umccullough> but that's not the whole equation[12:01:37] <umccullough> that just generates the glyphs - the rasterization still has to be done[12:01:48] <umccullough> that's where subpixel stuff comes into play[12:01:53] <uranium> yeah[12:02:23] <umccullough> AGG is used for all that currently[12:02:31] <umccullough> but doesn't currently have subpixel support[12:02:38] <umccullough> thus, the GSoC project to add it[12:03:01] <uranium> so the GSoC project will add it without compromising the patents?[12:03:09] <umccullough> it's unrelated[12:03:18] <umccullough> subpixel rendering is not font-specific[12:03:42] <umccullough> see, i'm having a hard time explaining - what you see on the screen is a combination of technologies[12:04:10] <uranium> ok[12:04:19] <umccullough> there's the font hinting, there's the AA, and along with AA, there's subpixel rendering[12:04:28] <umccullough> subpixel stuff only works on LCD[12:04:30] *** haogal has joined #haiku[12:04:53] <umccullough> are you familiar with how LCD pixels work?[12:05:00] <uranium> yup[12:05:06] <umccullough> ok[12:05:29] <PieterPan> Has anyone been able to mount a memory stick in Haiku yet with the new usb_disk ?[12:05:29] <PieterPan> I plugged in my memory stick, but nothing happens in /dev/disk/usb[12:05:29] <PieterPan> Will try another stick also[12:06:12] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[12:07:13] <Stargater> cu[12:07:26] *** Stargater has quit IRC[12:10:42] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[12:13:44] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[12:20:58] *** umccullough_x has quit IRC[12:27:15] <Thom_Holwerda> http://thebetaguy.com/#1[12:27:22] <Thom_Holwerda> what the hell am i supposed to do with that[12:27:35] <Thom_Holwerda> seems like a genuine fraud to me[12:27:46] <Thom_Holwerda> genuine fraud... nice choice of words there, btw.[12:29:25] *** Euver has joined #haiku[12:31:14] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[12:34:28] *** Euver has quit IRC[12:35:31] *** ddd_ has joined #haiku[12:35:39] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC[12:35:40] <ddd_> hello all[12:36:22] <ddd_> is revision 24789 broken or is it just me? i keep getting src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/bfs.h:370: error: cast from ‘const small_data*’ to ‘fssh_addr_t’ loses precision. but in < 24789 too.[12:37:15] <ddd_> 24782 too but its on the haikufiles archive so it should work[12:37:19] <mmadia> are you sure your build tools are setup properly? which OS are you building from?[12:38:25] <ddd_> opensuse 10.3 64. i did a ./configure --build-cross-tools-gcc4 x86 ../buildtools/[12:38:40] <ddd_> could it be because its a 64bit distri?[12:38:40] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku[12:38:47] <umccullough> yeah[12:38:54] <umccullough> you gotta use --use-32-bit[12:39:04] <umccullough> and you'll need the 32bit g++ libs also[12:39:05] <mmadia> morning umccullough : )[12:39:13] <umccullough> mmadia, i never went to sleep yet :p[12:39:38] <mmadia> heh[12:39:44] <umccullough> still working actually[12:40:01] <ddd_> ok. i'll install 32bit anyway so i hope it will work... thanks[12:40:02] <mmadia> oh.[12:40:05] *** ddd_ has quit IRC[12:42:20] <umccullough> time for sleep here I guess[12:42:21] <umccullough> 'night[12:42:33] * umccullough is supposed to be up in 3 hours[12:43:53] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[12:43:54] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666[12:44:22] *** PieterPan has quit IRC[12:51:48] *** TuneTracker has joined #Haiku[12:54:54] <ddew|bofh> anyone got a link for mmadias new site? i need his excellent bootloader[12:57:28] <uranium> which bootloader haiku used?[12:58:40] <ddew|bofh> he had a great site with different bootloaders, i need a 512mb raqm-limiting one[12:58:44] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[12:58:46] <Stargater> re[12:58:49] <ddew|bofh> the one on bebits doesn't work[13:06:44] <CIA-47> axeld * r24790 /haiku/trunk/src/build/libbe/storage/ (3 files in 2 dirs):[13:06:44] <CIA-47> * More or less reverted r24782; most ifdef's are NOT needed when running[13:06:44] <CIA-47> Haiku code, they work around buggy BeOS code not present on Haiku.[13:06:44] <CIA-47> * If this code turns out to be problematic under Haiku (Bruno, did your changes[13:06:44] <CIA-47> make any difference at all?), then please fix the problems in the Storage[13:06:44] <CIA-47> Kit, don't enable work-arounds for BeOS.[13:06:48] <CIA-47> * Simplified the macro check as suggested by Ingo.[13:07:16] *** TheNerd__ has quit IRC[13:08:18] <uranium> i notice that holding ctrl+alt+shift+click on leaf menu and set window decoration doesn't work[13:09:56] <ddew|bofh> hehe, haiku's in pre-alpha. the easter-egg isn't a top priority[13:10:12] <uranium> hehe but the menu is there ![13:10:45] <ddew|bofh> feel free to add the functionality :)[13:10:59] <Stargater> cu[13:11:01] *** Stargater has quit IRC[13:11:18] <uranium> i see that we dont have tree view for file navigation right?[13:11:33] <ddew|bofh> nope[13:11:50] <uranium> i want to add the functionality...[13:12:33] <ddew|bofh> you should check out the various trackers out there. i think one of them already has it[13:12:44] <ddew|bofh> opentrackers i mean[13:18:10] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[13:23:02] <Schmedly3D> ddew|bofh: http://bootdisks.beuser.de/[13:24:22] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i found it. was using net+ to access it first and it refused to render it properly :)[13:25:25] <Schmedly3D> good deal... or for net+, BAD kitty![13:30:24] <mmadia> ddew|bofh just to be clear, EuanK + zadig did the initial work for the bootloaders.[13:31:02] <mmadia> i had help from scanty to modify them to support 256, 768, and 1024. All i really did was package everything neatly together[13:31:58] <mmadia> i'm not really certain who figured out the kernel_intel patch for booting AMD cpus though.[13:34:59] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:34:59] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[13:36:12] <mmadia> ddew|bofh and i designed that net+ page specifically : P[13:38:48] <ddew|bofh> mmadia: hehe, true. but i couldn't find zbeos on it :)[13:39:19] <ddew|bofh> but seriously, that patch rocks. i can now use a full gb of ram on r5[13:40:29] <mmadia> true, i forgot about that bit when moving to the new site.[13:40:53] <ddew|bofh> or atleast so i think, the formula's something like "1152 - video ram", right?[13:40:56] <rennj> AuthenticAMD fix[13:41:03] <rennj> edit the kernel[13:41:38] <mmadia> iirc[13:41:50] <rennj> GenuineINTEL[13:41:50] <mmadia> morn'n rennj[13:42:05] <rennj> there was lib tweak to i think later[13:42:28] <rennj> i use to just edit the kernel[13:42:39] <rennj> from live system of course[13:42:41] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[13:42:52] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku[13:43:49] <Begasus> plop[13:43:54] <rennj> so i got 2 dvd's that will restore 6 systems for me[13:44:22] <rennj> border crossings they get nothing[13:44:37] <rennj> winxp partition they can play in[13:48:20] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[13:48:47] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[13:52:22] *** erim has quit IRC[13:56:32] <rennj> yeah open "kernel_intel" with diskprobe[13:57:42] <rennj> second accurance of GenuineINTEL change to AuthenticAMD right after "all nonboot cpus.."[13:58:34] <rennj> i swear one hack was to do to the kernel_intel.patch[13:59:10] <mmadia> that might've been for enabling SSE[14:00:03] *** stippi has joined #haiku[14:00:15] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[14:02:44] *** rennj-beos has joined #haiku[14:03:05] <rennj-beos> this is one of the systems i can restore is couple minutes from dvd[14:08:35] *** emitrax has quit IRC[14:08:44] *** Wiss has joined #haiku[14:20:00] <uranium> hello, how to install video codec in haiku[14:22:24] *** rennj-beos has quit IRC[14:23:43] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[14:23:46] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[14:24:49] *** daste has joined #haiku[14:25:17] <Begasus> lo peeps[14:25:18] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku[14:26:15] *** BuildFactory has quit IRC[14:29:03] *** [mark] has joined #haiku[14:30:38] *** frankps has joined #haiku[14:31:49] *** Barrett has joined #haiku[14:42:54] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[14:42:55] *** Barrett is now known as Barrett666[14:48:37] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[14:51:01] <mmadia> do the builds at haiku-files.org include the development package?[14:54:17] <Begasus> tuxtype reached 400 downloads on zeta-games ;)[14:55:03] <DeadYak> mmadia: dunno, do they include any of the other optional pkgs?[14:55:38] <Begasus> do pkg's actualy work already on Haiku?[14:55:51] <mmadia> dunno ... it's still downloading. a recent build done from r5bone has trouble working after the booticons all light up.[14:55:57] <Teknomancer> Begasus: i think it does[14:56:01] *** HeTo has joined #haiku[14:56:37] <Begasus> compiled it from source this morning ... all the icons light up but the Dekstop isn't showing ...[14:57:08] <mmadia> *whew* my pc isn't broke : )[14:57:19] <frankps> Begasus: Start the PackageManager first and then open the file you want to install from within the software[14:57:36] <Begasus> hi frankps ! ;)[14:57:43] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[14:57:44] <frankps> I think there is a MIME error that causes the pkg files not to be recognized[14:57:49] <Begasus> need to get Haiku to boot to the Desktop for that ;)[14:57:50] <frankps> hi Begasus[14:58:01] <dr_evil> hi stippi[15:01:47] *** Tonik has joined #haiku[15:03:07] <stippi> hi dr_evil[15:04:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[15:12:02] <DeadYak> hi guys[15:13:12] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku[15:13:15] <clsk> hello[15:13:25] * Begasus pets DeadYak[15:13:52] * DeadYak pets Begasus[15:14:07] <Begasus> meep[15:14:08] <DeadYak> Friday....finally[15:14:25] <Begasus> yeah ... long weekend!! )[15:14:34] *** erim has joined #haiku[15:14:48] <clsk> weekend? what does that mean?[15:15:07] <clsk> friday to me only means I get to work 12 hours[15:15:08] <DeadYak> clsk: there are times where I wonder too[15:15:13] <DeadYak> ouch :/[15:15:35] <clsk> but at least I get sunday off :)[15:16:05] <mmadia> Begasus have you tried using fail safe video ?[15:16:48] <Begasus> yeah mmadia try'd diff options[15:17:11] <mmadia> for me, using fail safe allows the desktop to display.[15:17:30] <Begasus> it booted fine during the week[15:17:39] <Begasus> just not this morning (clean build)[15:20:35] <ddew|bofh> anyone here tried building the 32-bit cross-tools on x86_64 using chroot?[15:21:43] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[15:21:50] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: I think bga does that using linux32[15:22:23] <ddew|bofh> cool, then i know it's doable atleast :)[15:25:40] *** andybe has joined #haiku[15:25:51] <andybe> hello[15:26:29] <Begasus> hi andybe[15:26:39] <andybe> Begasus: how you doing?[15:26:48] <Begasus> fine thnx[15:26:57] <Begasus> day of so that's always a good thing ;)[15:27:00] <Begasus> you?[15:27:03] <mmadia> just to beat a dead horse here, did you select [ ] Use Fail Safe video mode or specify the actual VESA mode, Begasus ?[15:27:32] * Begasus slaps mmadia !![15:27:43] <Begasus> I'm not that of a newbie ;)[15:27:53] *** haogal has quit IRC[15:27:57] <andybe> hm, unix machine here stop to work...very wired, full mail message, because of a broken hardware streamer[15:27:58] <mmadia> Begasus because the first worked and the latter didnt for me : )[15:28:26] <Begasus> you need both (atleast that's the way it's been before)[15:28:51] <mmadia> not here at least. could you try checking just the first, please?[15:29:39] <Begasus> rr .. that's on the laptop I'm running atm ;)[15:30:23] <DeadYak> Begasus: no, they're two different things, Use Fail Safe Video Mode = 640x480xgrayscale[15:30:29] <DeadYak> no relation to using any of the vesa modes[15:31:04] <Begasus> bugger .. busted again ;)[15:31:18] *** frankps has left #haiku[15:38:05] *** Guma has joined #haiku[15:38:56] <mmadia> DeadYak i'm not certain about that... i chose Use Fail Safe Video mode and i had color and more than 640x480[15:39:21] <DeadYak> mmadia: if you choose both, it will use whichever one you pick out of VESA, the latter overrides[15:39:33] <DeadYak> if you choose just use fail safe, at least on BeOS it drops to 640x480xgray[15:39:43] <DeadYak> on every box I've ever tried anyways[15:41:11] <mmadia> on BeOS definitely. on Haiku i've 1024x768x32 from selecting just use fail safe. the weird thing is, if i specify that mode in the boot time options, the desktop won't display. (and yeah, the card is supported :] )[15:41:20] *** stippi has quit IRC[15:44:12] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[15:47:36] <DeadYak> mmadia: yeah, I meant in R5 sorry, I'm honestly not sure what it decides to do if you pick fail safe in Haiku's zbeos[15:48:18] <mmadia> all i know is that it lets me this morning's Haiku. : D[15:49:15] *** bSON has joined #haiku[15:49:20] *** Guma has quit IRC[15:49:21] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[15:51:17] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[15:58:18] * DeadYak prods CIA-47[15:58:41] <mmadia> cia.navi.cx/stats seems to be down too[15:58:53] <DeadYak> that'd explain that[15:59:03] <DeadYak> just saw a commit email and wondered why CIA said nothing[15:59:51] *** mib_z9lj2cex has joined #haiku[16:01:46] *** waveshaper has quit IRC[16:02:16] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku[16:02:25] <andybe> hoi...right[16:03:01] <andybe> ping cia.navi.cx[16:03:02] <andybe> PING cia.navi.cx (208.69.182.149): 56 data bytes[16:03:02] <andybe> 64 bytes from 208.69.182.149: icmp_seq=0 ttl=44 time=180.480 ms[16:03:07] <andybe> works ...[16:03:12] <andybe> machine isn't down[16:03:37] <DeadYak> andybe: the machine isn't, its web server is.[16:03:45] <DeadYak> and probably other things[16:03:46] <andybe> aha[16:04:06] <andybe> if only the web...it'S harmless..[16:04:25] <DeadYak> it's more than that though, seeing as the CIA bot also isn't tracking commits properly[16:04:38] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[16:05:00] <andybe> your right DeadYak[16:08:47] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[16:13:13] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[16:15:50] *** Guma has joined #haiku[16:21:52] *** rdmr has joined #haiku[16:22:26] *** tic has quit IRC[16:22:51] *** urnenfeld has quit IRC[16:26:19] *** xcasex has joined #haiku[16:35:14] *** tqh has joined #haiku[16:36:29] <mmadia> are r5 tracker addons supposed to work in haiku?[16:37:46] <mmadia> howdy tqh[16:40:39] <DeadYak> mmadia: afaik yes[16:41:47] *** Begasus is now known as Begasus_blb[16:41:53] *** Begasus_blb is now known as Begasus_bbl[16:41:55] <tqh> hi[16:42:27] <mmadia> poop. mountimage, summon 8, 9, and 91, and termhire complain about "Error Symbol not fonud loading Add-On Mount Image"[16:43:14] <mmadia> tqh how can i help you make haiku an actual target for mozilla?[16:43:24] <DeadYak> mmadia: can you look in syslog and see if it reports what symbol?[16:45:56] <mmadia> would that be at the top or the bottom of the syslog?[16:46:09] <DeadYak> it should appear in syslog right when you try to use the add-ons[16:46:20] <DeadYak> so towards the bottom[16:46:45] <tqh> mmadia: You might start with testing from Haiku. Compile glib and libdl to start.[16:47:40] *** leszek has joined #haiku[16:48:19] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[16:48:27] <leszek> hi[16:51:24] *** vision2 has joined #haiku[16:51:41] *** m0ns0on has joined #haiku[16:51:48] <vision2> i think this is it....[16:51:48] <vision2> KERN: bfs: InitCheck:295: Bad data[16:51:48] <vision2> KERN: bfs: inode at 786474 is corrupt![16:51:49] <vision2> KERN: bfs: GetNextMatching:1044: Bad data[16:51:49] <vision2> KERN: bfs: KERN: could not get inode 786474 in index "BEOS:APP_SIG"![16:51:56] *** vision2 is now known as mmadia-h[16:52:17] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[16:53:00] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku[16:53:27] *** HeTo has quit IRC[16:54:06] *** aroman has joined #haiku[16:56:07] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[16:59:14] *** rdmr has quit IRC[17:00:40] <DeadYak> ouch[17:01:32] <mmadia> guess i'll leave issue alone for a bit : )[17:01:52] <DeadYak> that error looks a tad more serious :)[17:05:20] <mmadia> the hard drive might be fsck'd[17:06:31] *** luroh has joined #haiku[17:07:00] *** stippi has joined #haiku[17:07:00] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[17:07:47] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[17:08:33] <aroman> How does DHCP work in Haiku? Where in the source tree does the DHCP client reside and how does it get used?[17:08:44] <DeadYak> net_server[17:08:53] <DeadYak> src/servers/net_server, the DHCP client is in there[17:08:57] <DeadYak> gets started at boot[17:09:16] <aroman> thanks DeadYak[17:09:19] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[17:09:21] <DeadYak> np[17:09:28] <aroman> I want to work on Zeroconf for Haiku for summer of code[17:09:43] <aroman> and that requires implementing IPv4 Link Local Addressing[17:09:43] <DeadYak> ahh, Alex Roman I take it?[17:09:45] <stippi> btw, the DHCP should be retried when the cable gets plugged in[17:09:48] <aroman> DeadYak: yes[17:09:53] *** andybe has left #haiku[17:09:56] <DeadYak> stippi: yeah, our DHCP impl could use a lot of improvements :)[17:10:12] <stippi> nice, aroman[17:10:21] <stpere> hi stippi :)[17:10:32] <stippi> hi stpere[17:10:43] <aroman> stippi: yeah, been looking at zeroconf for a while and I think it's really cool :)[17:11:07] <stippi> stpere: Are you one of the potential students as well?[17:13:41] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC[17:13:47] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[17:13:48] <aroman> DeadYak: Awesome! I found exactly what I needed! Thank you again![17:14:02] <DeadYak> aroman: no worries :) feel free to ask if you need anything else[17:14:08] <stpere> nah, I've finished my formation already[17:14:44] <stpere> I would have gladly applied tho if I were still eligible :)[17:14:50] <aroman> the other thing that I am not too sure of is how host name to ip address works in Haiku[17:14:58] <DeadYak> aroman: as in DNS?[17:15:04] <stippi> stpere: thanks for all your patches lately[17:15:07] <leszek> bbl[17:15:17] *** leszek has quit IRC[17:15:24] <aroman> DeadYak: or statically entered host names (something like /etc/hosts on *nix)?[17:15:34] <stippi> aroman: yes, I think so[17:15:48] <DeadYak> trying to remember...one sec.[17:16:31] <tqh> ooh over 90 online today[17:16:39] <stippi> test[17:16:55] <stippi> "/etc/hosts is at least not on the standard image"[17:17:03] <stippi> how is one supposed to escape a /?[17:17:10] <stippi> a leading one in IRC I mean...[17:17:16] <DeadYak> stippi: in Vision prefixing it with a space is enough[17:17:23] <stippi> ah[17:17:25] <stippi> I thought //[17:17:29] <DeadYak> nope[17:17:33] <PulkoMandy> stippi: /say /blah is also ok[17:17:37] <DeadYak> that'll work too[17:17:44] <stippi> :-)[17:17:45] <aroman> \/test[17:17:48] <aroman> :P[17:18:09] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[17:18:11] <stippi> hi PulkoMandy[17:18:40] <stippi> to gsoc students: we have some duplicate proposals, for some we have like 4 proposals...[17:18:45] *** andybe has joined #haiku[17:18:53] <DeadYak> aroman: src/kits/netowrk/dns[17:19:00] <DeadYak> network* even[17:19:20] <DeadYak> that all gets dropped into libnetwork.so[17:19:24] <PulkoMandy> stippi: i've made two proposals, one for network prefs and the othe for bluetooth prefs[17:20:11] <PulkoMandy> i don't know enough about kernel hacking and other low level things required for the other tasts :)[17:20:54] <stippi> PulkoMandy: Yeah, just checking it out[17:21:07] <Teknomancer> do all apps bundled with Haiku have to be BSD ?[17:21:15] <Teknomancer> *license[17:21:17] <stippi> PulkoMandy: it doesn't have to be from the ideas list only though. Could be your own proposal[17:21:26] <stippi> Teknomancer: no[17:21:33] <stippi> Teknomancer: It is prefered though[17:21:42] <stippi> because for MIT releases, they have to be left out.[17:21:43] <Teknomancer> stippi: what's the other license acceptible?[17:21:44] <DeadYak> Teknomancer: MIT you mean? the apps, not really...core-level code is another story[17:21:53] *** mmadia-h has quit IRC[17:21:56] <stippi> Teknomancer: anything in mind?[17:21:59] <aroman> PulkoMandy: cool... maybe if I get accepted for Zeroconf we can work together to also add a Zeroconf option to the Network Prefs ;)[17:22:10] <dr_evil> stippi, Interesse an einer Halskette? http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220218363867&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting[17:22:22] <Teknomancer> stippi: was going through Beezer, doesn't have any GPL code in it.. was wondering if I can open source it if I get the time[17:22:30] <PulkoMandy> stippi: didn't have enough time to find my own ideas unfortunately :/ i just moved for an internship and i don't have an internet connection at home[17:22:43] <DeadYak> dr_evil: darf man wissen wie du das gefunden hast? :)[17:22:52] <Teknomancer> it does have some minor string matching stuff from Tracker, which is BSD i think, and that's about it[17:22:57] <PulkoMandy> and my main computer here is powerpc based... can't boot haiku on this one :([17:23:00] <dr_evil> DeadYak neeeeee[17:23:02] <Teknomancer> escpecially since it supposedly runs on haiku already[17:23:45][17:24:15] <DeadYak> dr_evil: haha[17:24:32] * DeadYak evidently needs to browse cgi.ebay.de more often[17:25:38] <stippi> Teknomancer: Are so that's you, Beezer is really nice.[17:25:52] <aroman> :( no more time for hacking this morning... but I'm hoping to submit my application by tonight. Thank you DeadYak again![17:26:06] <aroman> later all[17:26:17] <DeadYak> aroman: no worries, did that DNS stuff help?[17:26:26] <aroman> DeadYak: sorta...[17:26:30] <aroman> DeadYak: still looking at it[17:26:48] <aroman> found some functions but I'll need to look at it some more[17:26:50] <DeadYak> aroman: that's all I can find that's DNS-related in any event[17:27:00] *** Kokito has joined #haiku[17:27:06] * DeadYak pets Kokito[17:27:15] <Kokito> howdy DeadYak[17:27:43] <aroman> DeadYak: yeah, I think that's the one... In any case, I think I should be able to figure it out from here...[17:27:57] <stippi> aroman: cool[17:28:00] <DeadYak> aroman: ok :) feel free to stop by later if you need more information :)[17:28:03] <stippi> looking forward to reading your proposal[17:28:07] <DeadYak> aroman: or ask on haiku-dev :)[17:28:11] <aroman> DeadYak: will do :)[17:28:17] <aroman> DeadYak: oh... there's a haiku-dev?[17:28:20] <Teknomancer> stippi: thx, i could also possibly open source BeConverter .. has some interesting usage of BFS attributes ;)[17:28:22] <DeadYak> aroman: as in the mailing list :)[17:28:28] <aroman> DeadYak: oh ok :)[17:28:29] <DeadYak> haiku-development at freelists dot org[17:28:35] <Teknomancer> the application of it rather (not technical parts)[17:28:42] <stippi> Teknomancer: OpenSourcing Beezer would be cool[17:28:49] <aroman> yeah... I've subscribed and posted a little :)[17:29:01] <stippi> though I think we don't have to include everything into Haiku[17:29:14] <stippi> some people might even be against that, since it's just fine to have 3rd party apps.[17:29:24] <aroman> ok now I really gtg...[17:29:25] <aroman> later all[17:29:26] <Teknomancer> yep, no problem[17:29:33] <DeadYak> later :)[17:29:57] <Teknomancer> is this "archiver translators" still being done yet ?[17:30:15] <Teknomancer> i heard Shinta was doing it...[17:30:43] <Kokito> Teknomancer, I think it is in a "waiting for Haiku" status[17:30:52] <Teknomancer> ah cool[17:32:22] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[17:32:56] <helf> HELLO[17:33:11] <Teknomancer> HI[17:33:21] <stippi> GOOD MORNING[17:33:27] <DeadYak> HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN[17:33:33] * DeadYak summons geist[17:33:42] <helf> HA HA HA HA[17:33:54] <DeadYak> sorry, I had to =)[17:33:57] * Kokito thinks we need an option to disable the CAPS LOCK key[17:34:06] *** clsk has quit IRC[17:34:07] <DeadYak> actually, I probably shouldn't summon him, he'll probably try to rickroll me again[17:34:11] <DeadYak> ;)[17:34:17] <helf> heh[17:34:31] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku[17:37:51] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[17:39:38] *** clsk has joined #haiku[17:40:55] <andybe> so i going home ..see you....[17:41:17] <andybe> Begasus_bbl: ...dr_evil ... DeadYak ...and all other...[17:41:26] *** andybe has quit IRC[17:44:32] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[17:47:57] <stippi> afk[17:48:06] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[17:50:29] *** Guma has quit IRC[17:51:18] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: thanks for the tip on linux32. that was the missing link :)[17:51:52] <ddew|bofh> i was really frustrated that chrooting into my 32-bit environment wasn't working[17:55:28] *** daste has quit IRC[17:57:57] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: np :)[18:01:20] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[18:03:29] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[18:07:53] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC[18:11:34] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[18:12:09] * JonathanThompson notes a decidedly geek-oriented spam subject in his inbox: "Steve Jobs latest interest"[18:13:30] <umccullough> hi stippi![18:13:53] <DeadYak> umccullough: he's afk[18:13:57] <umccullough> heh[18:14:09] * JonathanThompson is also Away From Kitty[18:14:24] <umccullough> well, i was just gonna let him know that i've been spreading lies about how AGG and FreeType work together - cuz I have almost no f'ing clue :)[18:14:45] <stpere> :)[18:14:58] <DeadYak> oh?[18:15:01] <umccullough> anyhow, i just woke up - so I'm gonna get my ass ready for work[18:15:10] <DeadYak> enjoy :/[18:15:19] <JonathanThompson> Won't your employer want the rest of you ready as well?[18:15:24] <umccullough> DeadYak, i was trying to explain to uranium last night what AGG was, how freetype was used, etc.[18:15:29] <umccullough> pretty certain I was mostly wrong[18:15:30] * JonathanThompson inserts thoughts about which end does the thinking here[18:15:57] <umccullough> cuz I know what what I've read on the mailing list[18:16:00] <umccullough> *only[18:16:16] <DeadYak> ah[18:16:22] <DeadYak> it's complicated :)[18:16:28] <umccullough> yeah, i suspect[18:16:33] <DeadYak> stippi's email to the guy asking about SoC was quite enlightening though[18:16:51] <umccullough> afaik, freetype provides the vector glyphs, but agg rasterizes them[18:17:09] <umccullough> so, freetype doesn't do any of the AA itself[18:17:22] <m0ns0on> :-)[18:17:24] <m0ns0on> Evening[18:17:34] *** Wiss has quit IRC[18:18:42] <umccullough> damn, i was up till almost 4am :([18:19:12] <JonathanThompson> I can't quite quantify how late/early I was up...[18:19:34] *** Nies has joined #haiku[18:19:52] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[18:19:52] <JonathanThompson> I went to my couch, and listened to my iPod, and sometime during that time, ended up falling into a dream state where I had a weird music video to an ELO song.[18:19:58] <DeadYak> umccullough: pretty much, freetype can do the hinting though[18:20:09] <umccullough> right[18:20:14] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[18:20:32] <DeadYak> umccullough: afaik freetype can potentially do AA as well, but the reason we want to do it differently is because enabling it in AGG will have the side effect of potentially allowing anti-aliased rendering of *anything*, not just fonts.[18:20:41] <umccullough> except then it gets funny regarding the patents (as being currently discussed on the mailing list) - so freetype's hinting isn't exactly the bestestest[18:20:43] <helf> ew[18:20:56] <DeadYak> hinting != anti-aliasing[18:21:05] * JonathanThompson sticks metal gloved finger in helf's ewing mouth[18:21:09] <umccullough> DeadYak, also, AGG doing it allows all the rotation and proper alpha blending, etc.[18:21:20] <DeadYak> right[18:21:30] *** aljen has quit IRC[18:21:36] <umccullough> DeadYak, right - i was trying to explain that font hinting is not AA...that's something that people seem to get confused by[18:21:45] <DeadYak> tell me about it[18:21:56] <umccullough> i.e. ClearType's subpixel stuff is not the same as font hinting[18:22:17] <umccullough> subpixel rendering doesn't matter to me anyway, i don't use an LCD ;)[18:22:26] <umccullough> *yet*[18:22:48] <helf> D:[18:23:01] <umccullough> anyhow, gotta jet - ttyl[18:23:04] <DeadYak> see ya[18:23:55] <helf> maybe if i had a LCD with an extremely high DPI, I'd like AA and the like...[18:24:13] <DeadYak> those are pricey :/[18:24:35] <helf> anything more than $50 is out of my price range ;P[18:24:47] <helf> i just got paid today and now im going to have to go spend most of it on car parts.. *sigh*[18:24:49] * JonathanThompson installs an AA font renderer on helf's Tandy m-100[18:24:54] <helf> oh god[18:25:05] <JonathanThompson> That's what being a young male teenager is all about, helf :P[18:25:31] <helf> I need plug wires, 6 spark plugs, rotor button, distributor cap, 2 oxygen sensors... oil pressure sending unit..[18:25:33] <helf> air filter..[18:25:35] <helf> D:[18:25:43] <DeadYak> ouch[18:25:52] <JonathanThompson> Why don't you just buy another new clunker? May be cheaper ;)[18:25:55] <helf> ill have to just get a few main things[18:26:00] <helf> heck no ;P[18:26:04] <helf> I like my van[18:26:17] <helf> and I *know* whats wrong with it. I'm not buying another unknown for awhile.[18:26:18] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[18:26:18] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[18:26:23] * DeadYak plops mmu_man[18:26:27] * JonathanThompson detects a consistent pattern in helf's behavior[18:26:38] <helf> which is?[18:26:52] <helf> refusing to see reality? ;P[18:26:53] * JonathanThompson patrons helf as the new saint of Lost Cause Hardware, rolling or not[18:26:59] <helf> lol[18:27:21] <helf> oh, i ahve to put on a new serpentine belt, too ;D[18:27:25] <helf> but i already have a replacement one[18:27:30] <JonathanThompson> ER, dubs? I forget how you'd specify that, not that my church gets into that.[18:27:46] <DeadYak> rolling rolling rolling...rawhide![18:27:48] <helf> dubs helf ne wpatron saint..[18:27:49] <DeadYak> sorry :)[18:27:51] * JonathanThompson hands helf a boa constrictor belt to hold things together tighter[18:28:00] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: ordains?[18:28:10] <helf> V: East Coast Crisis[18:28:16] <helf> awesome book :P reading it now[18:28:17] <JonathanThompson> Thing is, I think saints aren't ordained, as that needs you to be present.[18:28:24] <DeadYak> canonized[18:28:26] *** clsk has quit IRC[18:28:33] <JonathanThompson> I think that's closer to the reality.[18:28:36] <DeadYak> I believe is the right term[18:28:38] <JonathanThompson> (Of non-reality)[18:28:43] <helf> speaking of cooky religions and crazy stuff. i REALLY want to get into the vatican archives[18:29:27] <JonathanThompson> I admit, the concept of using Mary (or any other person dubbed as a saint) as an intermediary while praying has me quite confused as to where and how they got that.[18:29:32] <stpere> heh, I bet one could find the bill Jesus got for his wine at Cana[18:29:41] <helf> lol[18:29:42] <helf> probably[18:29:48] <helf> 2 shekles[18:29:49] * stpere is struck by a lighting bolt..[18:29:53] <helf> 3 denari[18:30:01] <helf> and 15 widows mites[18:30:10] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[18:30:11] * JonathanThompson strikes stpere with a more ordinary shackle bolt[18:30:42] <mmu_man> plop[18:30:46] <mmu_man> bad day today[18:30:56] <mmu_man> locked up back, can barely walk[18:31:00] <JonathanThompson> Your cat just got crushed by the vet by mistake?[18:31:13] <mmu_man> threw my phone down, broke the display[18:31:16] <mmu_man> ...[18:31:19] * JonathanThompson is the bearer of random bad news that is extremely odd[18:31:22] <stpere> ouch[18:31:25] <mmu_man> but everything is fine :D[18:31:40] <JonathanThompson> Well, as long as the cat is alright...[18:32:01] * helf imagines mmu_man saying that with hysterical giggles[18:32:11] <helf> "Everything is ?JUST? fine!1 hehehe!"[18:32:18] <helf> er[18:32:22] <mmu_man> Developpers, Developpers, Developpers, Developpers![18:32:23] <helf> "/JUST/[18:32:28] <mmu_man> oops[18:32:36] * mmu_man getting ballmerised[18:32:36] <JonathanThompson> The 3 most important things in the computer world ;)[18:32:38] <helf> 4xmisspell in a row[18:32:39] <helf> NICE[18:32:52] <JonathanThompson> At least he was consistent, helf: you're not :D[18:32:56] <helf> :D[18:33:02] <helf> It's one of my endearing qualities[18:33:12] <JonathanThompson> And, just possibly, it's correct spelling in his native language.[18:33:27] <helf> I'm decompressing 4.48GB to a network share over a 54mbps wifi link[18:33:30] <helf> im insane[18:33:40] <helf> psh[18:33:42] <helf> crazy brits[18:33:44] <JonathanThompson> Nah, it's a 54 mbs link.[18:34:00] <helf> American is so much better than "British"[18:34:09] * JonathanThompson points and laughs at helf[18:34:21] <helf> Pluralizing singular Company names[18:34:23] <helf> :)[18:34:39] <DeadYak> helf: his native language is french actually :P[18:34:43] <helf> oh, right.[18:34:48] <helf> crazy french[18:34:53] <JonathanThompson> "Young black bear a surprise in Puyallup park"[18:35:06] <JonathanThompson> Ah, always nice to know nature isn't far away around here :)[18:35:09] <helf> heh[18:35:35] <helf> I want a set of Napier's Bones![18:35:39] <JonathanThompson> Combine that with them last year/year before taking down a bear on University of Washington's campus, the coyote that attacked a runner in Bellevue within 5 miles of here...[18:36:00] <JonathanThompson> Seattle still has critters :D[18:36:12] <helf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier%27s_bones[18:36:15] <helf> I love stuff like that :)[18:36:31] * JonathanThompson notes helf is an odd overgrown little boy[18:36:53] <helf> ha[18:37:01] * stpere is waiting to see what project/task is still free to do after assignments to SoC students :)[18:37:25] <helf> 40minutes till decompression[18:37:30] <DeadYak> stpere: there's plenty to do that's not GSoC-related :)[18:37:33] <helf> *warning sirens*[18:37:57] * JonathanThompson speeds things up a bit and puts helf into a vacuum chamber, turns it on, and says, "Ha ha! You suck!"[18:38:02] <helf> heh[18:38:37] <helf> Archive breach imminent[18:38:40] *** zlominus_ has joined #haiku[18:38:45] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[18:38:54] <JonathanThompson> As long as it isn't a helf breach imminent...[18:39:03] <JonathanThompson> We don't want to see what's under there![18:39:14] <helf> That's not what the ladies say![18:39:15] * JonathanThompson notes no "Intel Inside" posted on helf's body[18:39:28] <JonathanThompson> Yeah, they just point their fingers and laugh :) :D[18:39:30] <helf> I'm powered by a 6502[18:39:35] <helf> lol[18:39:37] <helf> you bastard[18:39:44] <helf> "aw, its cute"[18:39:56] <JonathanThompson> Like a small car :D[18:40:08] *** zlominus has quit IRC[18:40:24] <helf> ...I didnt know my credit was whack. I'm driving off the lot in a new used sub compact[18:40:28] <helf> too bad they are a scam[18:40:29] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[18:40:33] <helf> their new commercials are great :P[18:40:46] * stpere have a hard time to understand BResources..[18:40:50] * JonathanThompson has minor problem parsing "new used"[18:40:54] <DeadYak> stpere: how so?[18:40:57] <JonathanThompson> And sub-compact. Is it compact or not?[18:41:05] <helf> JonathanThompson, its part of the joke[18:41:10] <helf> sub compact is TEENY ;)[18:41:13] <JonathanThompson> And if it's sub-compact, is it smaller than compact, or larger?[18:41:18] <stpere> at what step is a BResources "included" in the executable..[18:41:19] <helf> shaddup[18:41:22] <stpere> at compile time?[18:41:26] * JonathanThompson shaddups helf[18:41:26] <DeadYak> stpere: after compile[18:41:28] <stpere> or at first run?[18:41:31] <helf> you do a most entertaining job at over analyzing :P[18:41:37] <DeadYak> stpere: the resources are basically appended to the end of the executable[18:41:40] <JonathanThompson> That's why I'm working in QA :D[18:41:43] <DeadYak> stpere: via rc or whatnot[18:41:55] <DeadYak> err[18:41:56] <DeadYak> not rc[18:41:57] <DeadYak> xres[18:42:08] *** andybe has joined #haiku[18:42:11] <helf> I installed nTune on my sisters computer to play with overclocking her video card[18:42:24] <DeadYak> helf: if you want tiny, wait'll Nina gets her Smart[18:42:29] <stpere> but what does the BFile parameter in BResource constructors mean?[18:42:37] <DeadYak> stpere: which file to grab the resources from[18:42:42] <stpere> ah ok[18:42:44] <helf> the card didnt like it and everytime i rebooted, it would garble and blank the screen. i tried uninstalling nTune, and it tells me it cant "install" because it didnt detect an nforce motherboard[18:42:45] <helf> wtf[18:42:48] <helf> so no wi cant uninstall it[18:42:56] <helf> DeadYak, yeah :)[18:43:13] <helf> so now she is running with a crazy unichrome onboard video card in VESA3 mode[18:43:18] <stpere> and does the delete_resource (?) removes it from the executable or simply free the memory?[18:43:19] <helf> since I couldnt find any drivers...[18:43:27] <helf> s/crazy/crappy/[18:43:29] <DeadYak> stpere: that I don't remember, I'd have to look...[18:43:34] <stpere> ok[18:43:41] <stpere> well, I can write a quick test program[18:43:47] <stpere> thanks[18:43:53] <DeadYak> stpere: BeBook doesn't say?[18:44:19] *** AnEvilYak has joined #haiku[18:44:28] <DeadYak> let's see how long that stays up...[18:45:37] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[18:45:38] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[18:45:52] * JonathanThompson keeps in mind to never cross paths with the old woman that bit the pit bull on the nose to defend her dog[18:46:02] <stpere> RemoveResource() removes an existing resource from the file.[18:46:12] <stpere> so, I guess that's not the right way :)[18:46:23] <stpere> for my intended usage[18:48:45] *** Stargater has joined #haiku[18:48:46] <Stargater> re[18:49:19] *** rsanches has quit IRC[18:51:46] *** AndrevS has joined #haiku[18:53:15] *** bogomipz has joined #haiku[18:54:07] <PulkoMandy> +++[18:54:12] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[18:55:12] *** absabs has quit IRC[19:01:30] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[19:05:18] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC[19:09:38] *** CIA-47 has quit IRC[19:10:11] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[19:11:23] <stpere> stippi: poke[19:12:54] <stpere> I'm having trouble compiling generate_boot_splash.cpp, maybe someone else can help[19:13:13] <stpere> it's probably something very obvious[19:15:24] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[19:15:59] <emitrax> hi[19:16:06] <emitrax> is svn down by any chance ?[19:16:15] <stpere> hi emitrax[19:16:18] <DeadYak> emitrax: wasn't when I tried 10 minutes ago[19:16:27] <DeadYak> stpere: what's the error?[19:16:44] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[19:16:53] <stpere> well, I tried jam generate_boot_screen[19:16:59] <stpere> it's not working[19:17:07] <stpere> so I tried to call g++ directly[19:17:24] <stpere> «va_start" was not declared in this scope[19:17:29] <emitrax> A haiku/src/bin/vim/runtime/syntax/gtkrc.vim[19:17:29] <emitrax> A haiku/src/bin/vim/runtime/syntax/ctrlh.vim[19:17:29] <emitrax> svn: Connection closed unexpectedly[19:17:34] <emitrax> while doing a normal checkout[19:17:37] <stpere> so, I suppose I need a flag or something[19:17:44] <stpere> emitrax: it works here[19:17:46] <DeadYak> emitrax: try continuing? I have that happen once in a while[19:18:32] <emitrax> DeadYak: you mean by re-running svn co ?[19:18:52] <DeadYak> yep[19:20:42] *** Euver has joined #haiku[19:21:59] *** Kokito has quit IRC[19:22:35] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[19:23:32] <mmu_man> damn the laptop battery died and now the LCD backlight can't stop shutting down[19:23:43] <mmu_man> have to switch it back on on the keyboard...[19:24:13] <mmu_man> looks like it's stopping maybe to avoid crashing due to power fluctuation[19:24:26] <mmu_man> maybeit's actually the PSU that's broken[19:24:52] <mmu_man> it's actually nto the matching one for that lappy as it's an LCD display block[19:26:36] *** clsk has joined #haiku[19:26:45] <dr_evil> i'm using a 16V instead of 19V power supply for my notebook. unable to charge the battery more than 20% :([19:27:04] *** dchis has joined #haiku[19:27:06] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[19:27:29] <mmu_man> maybe the PSU is loosing voltage, that'd explain it can't charge > 15%[19:27:35] <mmu_man> I'll have to try another one[19:27:36] *** bSON has quit IRC[19:27:52] *** andybe has quit IRC[19:30:36] *** User517 has joined #haiku[19:30:50] <User517> haiku work not on smp[19:31:09] <User517> i installed after many hour on AMD 64 bit dual core with 2 GB of memory and SATA disk[19:31:12] <stpere> oh right, jam gets the same error[19:31:15] <User517> it stops[19:31:19] <stpere> I will investigate it once[19:31:26] <User517> thanks[19:32:15] <burfi> stpere: #include <stdarg.h>[19:32:29] <emitrax> User517: where does it stops ? did you try booting with SMP disabled ?[19:32:39] <mmu_man> bbl[19:32:39] <User517> how to do?[19:32:40] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[19:32:50] *** helf has quit IRC[19:32:57] <User517> i stops after started booting but before deskot shows[19:33:15] <DeadYak> console debug output could be useful there too[19:33:18] <emitrax> User517: press the space bar during boot and a menu should pop up[19:33:22] <DeadYak> as well as what revision you're trying to boot[19:33:34] <User517> latest image on that download side[19:33:42] <User517> also try one month ago[19:33:56] <stpere> thx burfi[19:34:01] <stpere> that works[19:34:33] <User517> yes disble SMP makes it boot!!![19:34:44] <DeadYak> interesting[19:34:51] <emitrax> not that much :)[19:35:39] <emitrax> could you try again with SMP and entering the debugger with F12 and then print out a stack trace ?[19:38:02] *** User517 has quit IRC[19:38:09] <DeadYak> oops[19:41:06] *** helf has joined #haiku[19:41:30] <helf> back[19:45:16] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[19:45:20] <helf> lmao[19:45:36] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[19:46:04] <helf> my coworker opened our office door and was standing there and goes "c'mere! c'mere! look". i lean over so its my head popping out hte side of te door just in time for the chick to turn around and see us staring at her[19:46:07] <helf> like the stooges[19:47:16] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[19:47:46] *** stippi has quit IRC[19:48:58] <pyCube> iggy pop![19:51:17] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC[19:52:13] <pyCube> "meet david bowie and iggy pop"[19:56:07] *** Euver has quit IRC[19:59:37] *** CIA-47 has joined #haiku[20:02:25] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[20:02:26] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[20:05:13] <pyCube> helf: so i think I am gonna take out a small loan and just go ahead and fix everything on my car..[20:05:27] <helf> do it[20:05:29] <helf> do it now[20:05:39] <helf> as soon as my currnet loan is paid off, im probably going to do the same[20:05:46] <pyCube> putting a little money into it will only make the car more valuable[20:06:47] <mmu_man> so, got a different PSU, let's try that[20:06:49] <mmu_man> bbl[20:06:50] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[20:07:20] <pyCube> its not like it has a lot wrong with it. its mechanically sound, just has little shit like needs new rubber seals on the doors, etc.. passenger side door handle needs fixed, etc[20:10:41] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[20:14:27] <helf> pycube, moslty same thing all my cars need. heh[20:14:33] <helf> i gotta replace my door/window seals :([20:14:35] <stpere> stippi: RLE encoding done, I'm doing the decoding now..[20:16:08] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[20:16:09] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[20:16:48] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[20:16:58] <mmu_man> hmm battery seems screwed up anyway :-([20:17:18] <helf> pyCube, im going to have to buy a new engine eventually. right now I'm just going to replace some stuff on it and let it limp along for awhile. be better off spending small amounts and getting everything else fixed first until i absolutely have to get a motor[20:17:28] <helf> laptop?[20:20:28] <ddew|bofh> question: can the recent issues with nvidia cards do any permanent damage?[20:21:42] *** clsk has quit IRC[20:24:35] <mmadia> ddew|bofh recent issues?[20:24:51] <ddew|bofh> the thing with garbled screen output[20:25:10] <helf> mmadia, got the box. thanks :)[20:25:15] <DeadYak> shouldn't, it's all MTRR issues, not timing[20:25:20] <mmadia> thank you helf : )[20:25:42] <helf> i also managed to get a free stick of PC2700 512mb yesterday :P[20:26:00] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: because i'm stuck in that "mode" now, even after reboots, powerdowns and other oses[20:26:18] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: does it work in other OSes?[20:26:30] <ddew|bofh> nope, same garbled output[20:26:37] <DeadYak> o.0[20:26:38] <helf> you killed your video card?[20:26:42] <helf> via software?[20:26:43] <helf> wow[20:26:44] <helf> :)[20:27:04] <DeadYak> that's not too hard actually, download any of those Geforce overclock utilities and you can do that trivially[20:27:05] <ddew|bofh> i fucking hope not, it cost me the food budget for an entire month :)[20:27:23] <helf> deadyak, yeah, hopefully i didnt do that to my 6200 last night. heh[20:27:37] <helf> what card is it?[20:27:40] <helf> 7x00?[20:27:42] <ddew|bofh> fx5200[20:27:44] <helf> oh[20:27:47] <helf> i haveo ne of those[20:27:49] *** stippi has joined #haiku[20:27:50] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stippi[20:27:53] <helf> you can get them for dirt, now.[20:28:06] <ddew|bofh> i bought this last month for like 50 bucks[20:28:14] <helf> yeah[20:29:01] <ddew|bofh> hopefully the card's ok, i really don't feel like getting a new card[20:30:30] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku[20:30:47] <mmadia> tqh earlier today, i noticed the same behavior as tigerdog -- one mozilla app killing another, even though both have proper appsigs and are properly identified before running.[20:32:46] <ddew|bofh> i've had that too, if i start thunderbird while firefox is running it kills firefox[20:35:12] *** daste has joined #haiku[20:36:28] <DeadYak> I've had some similarish behavior with Vision, every so often if I have Firefox and vision running concurrently, Firefox seems to kill one of my threads[20:36:50] <mmadia> is there anyway to inquire a running processes app sig?[20:37:05] <DeadYak> BRoster can tell you that I believe, I don't know about from the shell though[20:37:22] <mmadia> this is the code in mozilla that does it : http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla1.8/source/toolkit/xre/nsNativeAppSupportBeOS.cpp#215[20:38:19] <DeadYak> ok so if it fails to get it from app file info for whatever reason, it will return application/x-vnd.Mozilla, that could quite possibly cause trouble[20:38:43] <mmadia> *nod*[20:38:59] <tqh> I think it's another issue though.[20:39:19] <tqh> Our messaging port, may be the same for both apps.[20:39:25] <mmadia> but the same exact builds run concurrently on r5bone.[20:40:00] *** m0ns0on has quit IRC[20:40:01] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku[20:43:13] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[20:44:47] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[20:44:47] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666[20:45:25] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[20:46:16] <tqh> hmm, does syslog or applog say anything interesting?[20:47:31] <mmadia> cant check right now, i'm trying to revive that partition.[20:47:41] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[20:48:26] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku[20:51:45] *** Sloar has joined #haiku[20:52:23] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC[20:52:50] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[20:53:17] <pyCube> http://youtube.com/watch?v=kUm5VVrncDs[20:55:52] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[21:00:48] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[21:01:54] *** stippi has quit IRC[21:06:20] *** SprMa has quit IRC[21:10:06] *** Begasus_bbl is now known as Begasus[21:11:08] <Begasus> re[21:14:13] *** daste has quit IRC[21:15:03] <CIA-47> stippi * r24796 /haiku/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)[21:15:03] <CIA-47> Refined again the boot splash artwork. Everything is now centered as a whole.[21:15:03] <CIA-47> The dividing line is back although with a little more spacing. Also the icon[21:15:03] <CIA-47> spacing is a little increased and I added a subtle outline as well as a little[21:15:04] <CIA-47> brighter background for the active icon look. The placement logic is now not[21:15:07] <CIA-47> independant of each other anymore, otherwise I couldn't center both images[21:15:09] <CIA-47> as a unit. But only the vertical placement is affected.[21:16:50] *** Wiss has joined #haiku[21:18:46] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[21:20:37] <helf> "LaTeX requires a megabyte of memory. A hard disk is not necessary; an extra two megabytes of memory is cheaper and much more useful" ...lol. talking about running LaTeX on an Amiga[21:21:24] <MindChild> Ok guys. Need a little math refresher. I have a point, and I have a circle. I know the coords of the point, I know the center of the circle, and I know the radius of the circle. How can I find the points tangent to the circle of a ray coming from the point?[21:21:29] <dr_evil> helf did you ever use Latex?[21:21:49] <helf> no, ive never gotten around to it. I have it on my neXT. thought about learning it.[21:21:52] <helf> looks pretty darn useful[21:21:55] <ari-free> who needs hard drives when everything that used to run on amiga can be run straight from cpu cache![21:22:22] <DeadYak> MindChild: do you know the direction of the ray?[21:22:47] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[21:22:55] <MindChild> No, I dont. I could figure it out if I had the tangent points :([21:22:59] <dr_evil> helf I wrote my diploma thesis using latex[21:23:51] <DeadYak> MindChild: well, the problem is, without more information there's several possible correct answers to that[21:24:14] <MindChild> It has been so long...[21:24:52] <DeadYak> MindChild: in theory though you'd have to set up an equation for the line going from the center to the edge of the circle, an equation for a line going from the point to the edge of the circle, and solve that set of simultaneous equations[21:24:55] <helf> lol ddew|bofh[21:24:59] <helf> dr_evil, like it?[21:24:59] <MindChild> with the center of the circle, and the point, I can figure out the length of side A, and the radius of the circle would be side B, so I can find the length of the distance between the point and the tangent on the circle[21:24:59] <DeadYak> that's probably linear algebra territory though[21:25:03] <MindChild> but thats as far as I can get[21:25:06] <MindChild> and Im not sure it helps[21:25:24] <DeadYak> can you form a triangle using those points?[21:25:53] <MindChild> That is just it... I know two points... I am trying to find the third essentially[21:25:56] <dr_evil> helf well, the output was great, but that was 10 years ago[21:26:03] <MindChild> I know the length of all sides[21:26:08] <MindChild> and the angle of side A[21:26:23] <MindChild> from 0 taht is[21:26:30] <DeadYak> that's enough to solve for the others iirc[21:26:39] <DeadYak> a / sin a = b / sin b = c / sin c no?[21:27:11] <Begasus> 0_0[21:27:16] <MindChild> Maybe. Im trying to google, but such generic geometric terms is hard[21:27:32] <MindChild> it has been literally.... 14 years since trig[21:27:43] <DeadYak> so if you know two sides and one angle, you can just plug into that to figure out the other angle[21:27:58] <DeadYak> and there's only going to be so many sets of points that satisfy all those constraints[21:28:27] <helf> dr_evil, seems a lot of people still use it[21:28:44] <DeadYak> MindChild: yeah, it's been forever since that kind of math for me too, this is as best as I can remember right now :/[21:28:56] <MindChild> thanks. It is a start[21:30:49] <DeadYak> if it's a right triangle there's also SOHCAHTOA you can rely on but.I'm not sure if that's the case[21:31:07] <DeadYak> actually...it'd have to be a right angle to form a tangent line I think[21:31:52] <DeadYak> in order to be a tangent line it has to be perpendicular to the line projecting from the center of the circle[21:34:02] <MindChild> right, which is how I can find the length from the point to the tangent on the circle[21:34:15] <MindChild> but with that, I havent a clue how to figure out the coords[21:34:56] <DeadYak> the coords of what, the point?[21:35:29] <MindChild> yes, the tangent point[21:36:07] <stpere> oh, you need the mathematical equation of the circle[21:36:35] <DeadYak> trying to remember the formula for a point on the circumference of a circle.....[21:36:53] <stpere> (x-px)²+(y-py)²=R²[21:37:24] <stpere> x and y being the coordinates of the center[21:37:54] <stpere> for every px and py respecting that equation, the point is on the circumference[21:38:08] <stpere> did my ^2 show up well?[21:39:04] <CIA-47> axeld * r24797 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/Volume.cpp: * Resolved a TODO: determine the log size depending on the size of the volume.[21:39:10] <stpere> so, your coordinate you are looking for must respect that equation[21:39:29] <stpere> seems like a good constraint to reduce the complexity of the question[21:39:39] <MindChild> let me see what I can come up with[21:39:44] <MindChild> thanks guys[21:39:50] <stpere> no problem :)[21:45:47] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[21:46:48] <CIA-47> korli * r24798 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/ServerWindow.cpp:[21:46:48] <CIA-47> * GRAY8 is 8 bits[21:46:48] <CIA-47> * typo[21:50:27] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC[21:51:51] *** Sloar has left #haiku[21:54:02] *** clsk has joined #haiku[21:56:54][21:57:34][21:57:54] <MindChild> Then I can rotate circle that many degrees backwards[21:58:10] <MindChild> and have a right triangle with the tangent point on the circle[21:58:21] <MindChild> find it, then rotate that point back the same amount of degrees[21:58:27] <MindChild> what do you think?[21:58:31] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku[22:06:52] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[22:08:00] *** waveshaper has quit IRC[22:11:05] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[22:13:01] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[22:13:23] *** Hugen has joined #haiku[22:13:27] <Hugen> hi all[22:15:04] <Stargater> hi Hugen[22:16:51] <Hugen> hi Stargater[22:16:56] <Begasus> hi Hugen ![22:16:59] <Begasus> ;)[22:17:27] <Hugen> hi Begasus[22:17:36] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC[22:17:37] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666[22:18:07] *** DeadYak has quit IRC[22:20:21] <stpere> hi Hugen[22:20:41] <Hugen> hi stpere[22:21:38] *** m0ns0on has joined #haiku[22:22:07] *** m0ns0on has quit IRC[22:22:22] *** m0ns0on has joined #haiku[22:22:41] <m0ns0on> :-)[22:23:06] <m0ns0on> After having been in BeOS for the last two days, I'm getting impatient with Haiku. Get it done already! :-P[22:23:06] <m0ns0on> Hehe[22:23:09] <[Katisu]> MindChild, don't quite understand Y value part, you have P1.y as 0??[22:23:41] <stpere> m0ns0on: I'm working on it![22:23:42] <stpere> hehehe[22:23:54] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[22:23:55] <stpere> well, my module is pretty useless so far[22:24:10] <m0ns0on> stpere: BeOS really rocks, and from what I've seen, Haiku is much more polished (graphically)[22:24:28] <m0ns0on> stpere: Just hope it will be as fast![22:25:19] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC[22:25:19] <m0ns0on> How does Haiku compare with BeOS in performance?[22:25:37] *** mats has joined #haiku[22:28:14] <MindChild> [Katisu]: no. The hypotenuse is the line from P1 and P2 (circles center). The opposite line is along vertical, and the adjacent line would be along the X axis[22:28:27] <MindChild> so the length of the opposite line would simply be P2.y[22:28:52] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC[22:29:31] <MindChild> this is obviously illustrated with P1 being at 0,0 and P2 being in quadrant 1[22:29:46] <MindChild> but I was just using that as example points[22:29:53] <MindChild> translation would be simple[22:30:22] <[Katisu]> that's what I meant, P1 would be at y=0[22:30:47] <MindChild> yes[22:31:07] <MindChild> in the example I had going in my head that is[22:31:21] <MindChild> like I said, P1 is at 0,0 from my ramblings[22:32:41] <mmadia> has anyone tried creating ramdisks or ramfs in haiku yet?[22:35:59] *** m0ns0on has quit IRC[22:38:29] *** El-Al has joined #haiku[22:38:36] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[22:39:05] <El-Al> yo peeps! :o)[22:39:21] * pyCube mmmm's at indian food[22:40:55] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[22:42:42] * [Katisu] reads MindChild's original problem[22:43:43] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[22:44:47] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[22:48:27] *** the_ringmaster has joined #haiku[22:49:13] *** clsk has quit IRC[22:51:10] *** Hugen has quit IRC[22:57:58] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[22:58:36] <xcasex> hm[22:59:01] <xcasex> why isnt it as easy as just replacing the device id and recompiling the ati m6 driver with a m3 id? :([23:01:06] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[23:02:26] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC[23:05:52] *** Pulko_Mandy has joined #haiku[23:08:22] *** Pulko_Mandy has quit IRC[23:09:15] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[23:11:48] *** the_ringmaster has quit IRC[23:12:37] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[23:15:02] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[23:16:22] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:17:00] <Begasus> http://pastebin.com/d1ef9d25d .. linking errors for openal[23:19:51] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[23:25:23] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[23:27:02] *** El-Al has quit IRC[23:30:03] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku[23:30:04] *** Wiss has quit IRC[23:31:11] <Thom_Holwerda> men's world championships curling tomorrow[23:31:12] <Thom_Holwerda> woohoo[23:31:24] <Thom_Holwerda> compulsory material, geeks should love it[23:31:25] <Thom_Holwerda> :)[23:31:37] <Thom_Holwerda> and it earns you weirdness cred[23:35:06] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC[23:39:14] <ari-free> ok gotta go[23:39:29] *** ari-free has quit IRC[23:40:45] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC[23:42:14] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku[23:43:02] *** Stargater has quit IRC[23:45:06] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku[23:45:32] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:46:13] *** mmadia has quit IRC[23:48:12] *** rGk_ has joined #haiku[23:51:14] *** clsk has joined #haiku[23:51:15] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC[23:54:01] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[23:54:09] *** EuanK has joined #haiku[23:56:59] <DeadYak> evening Euan[23:58:42] <EuanK> evening[23:59:08] <EuanK> any reply from axel?