[00:00:14] <miqlas> I try to send, please accept it.
[00:01:11] <EuanK> I have it#s not starting firewall issue maybe?
[00:01:36] <EuanK> I used webmail to send files off haiku previously, got that working?
[00:01:45] <miqlas> I can send the syslog in pm, if you want
[00:02:26] <EuanK> give it a go, but will be size limited I think
[00:02:29] *** stargater has joined #haiku
[00:02:32] <stargater> re
[00:04:04] <duaneb> hmm
[00:04:13] <duaneb> I wonder if I could tackle a GSOC project in my spare time
[00:04:17] <duaneb> unlikely :(
[00:06:35] *** miqlas has quit IRC
[00:07:18] <EuanK> hehe
[00:08:12] <EuanK> miqlas tried to cut and paste a syslog into a pm window...
[00:08:22] <EuanK> going at 1line/min
[00:08:24] *** miqlas has joined #haiku
[00:09:01] *** urnenfeld has left #haiku
[00:09:02] <miqlas> where is the copy-paste service on the net, where can i put some text?
[00:09:25] <clsk> pastebin.com
[00:09:26] <clsk> I think
[00:09:42] <EuanK> .ca?
[00:10:03] <clsk> .iq
[00:12:05] <miqlas> Dont work in Net+ :(
[00:12:40] <stargater> http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php
[00:14:00] <miqlas> Net+ always crash.... :(
[00:14:09] <miqlas> maybe with links?
[00:14:14] *** PascalR has quit IRC
[00:14:18] <miqlas> please, give me an link to links
[00:14:37] <EuanK> just add firefox to the build?
[00:14:53] *** plfiorini has left #haiku
[00:16:18] <miqlas> Please,give me an link to links ...
[00:16:48] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/links-beos-bin.zip
[00:17:00] <EuanK> can't you net + to trac on dev.haiku-os.org
[00:18:57] *** capycube has quit IRC
[00:19:03] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku
[00:19:56] *** capycube has joined #haiku
[00:20:30] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC
[00:21:20] *** miqlas_ has joined #haiku
[00:21:25] <miqlas_> Hello....
[00:21:35] <miqlas_> Weird...
[00:22:34] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
[00:22:46] <Al2O3> new builds are looking better and better.
[00:22:54] <Al2O3> dr. evil, I see your mention in osnews.org :)
[00:23:07] <Al2O3> what up dead.
[00:23:32] <miqlas_> If i booting to haiku i see the new boot animation, then mz monitor blinks, and the i see an image: mz desktop befor the crash. This is only an image. Then i see the normal desktop. This is abnormal. Where found the haiku the image of my last desktop?
[00:23:38] <miqlas_> This is interresting.
[00:23:50] <miqlas_> Maybe an cache not deleted?
[00:24:00] <miqlas_> Or the driver have problem?
[00:24:04] <dr_evil> EuanK are you sure you didn't break anything? Number of command slots appears to be broken, ports implemented mask, number of available ports, all very strange
[00:24:42] <miqlas_> PLEASE, kick miqlas....
[00:24:56] <EuanK> yeah it was always like that.
[00:25:16] <mmadia42> miqlas_ try /msg nickserv help
[00:25:30] <EuanK> I'll update them with official screenshots :)
[00:26:05] *** dchis has quit IRC
[00:26:33] *** Deffy|iMac_ has quit IRC
[00:26:37] *** miqlas has quit IRC
[00:27:07] *** miqlas_ is now known as miqlas
[00:27:22] <plfiorini> OMG
[00:27:44] <plfiorini> ls /boot/develop/tools/gnupro/bin gives a lot of errors
[00:27:52] <plfiorini> it says not a directory
[00:28:06] <EuanK> so does tail -f /var/log/syslog
[00:28:11] <plfiorini> for every fine in it and also for . and ..
[00:28:18] <miqlas> EuanK, You know about the boot "last desktop image" problem?
[00:28:23] <plfiorini> cannot open
[00:28:30] <plfiorini> not a directory
[00:28:42] <EuanK> what the radeon driver?
[00:29:03] <miqlas> I use the default Radeon driver in Haiku
[00:29:22] <EuanK> what's the problem?
[00:29:42] <duaneb> is there an nv driver?
[00:29:48] <EuanK> yup
[00:30:22] <duaneb> is it proprietary?
[00:30:27] <EuanK> no
[00:30:48] <miqlas> When i booting the Haiku i see the animated bootscreen, then my monitor shows an blank screen, then shows my "last desktop befor the last crash", then the Deskbar starts...
[00:31:15] <duaneb> wait, is haiku self hosting now?
[00:31:16] <miqlas> Haiku store somewhere the image of my last desktop
[00:31:17] <EuanK> nice, I'd pay money for that
[00:31:51] <EuanK> it just doesn't clear the framebuffer in time.  Sounds like your monitor is too quick :)
[00:31:56] <MichaelHenry> ntfs driver. Is it ready yet?
[00:32:18] *** capycube has quit IRC
[00:32:19] <miqlas> :)
[00:32:27] <miqlas> But i think this is an problem.
[00:33:52] *** Cian has joined #haiku
[00:34:10] <Cian> right, got an R5 laptop again :D
[00:34:10] <EuanK> nah
[00:34:11] <miqlas> This is the framebuffer on the videocard or in the Haiku?
[00:34:18] <Cian> (me = MYOB)
[00:34:22] <DeadYak> plfiorini: it's a problem in Axel's patch, it doesn't deal with symlinks correctly
[00:34:32] <miqlas> Please gve me link to links again....
[00:34:41] <EuanK> framebuffer is on the card.
[00:34:55] <EuanK> but drawn to by the appserver
[00:34:57] <plfiorini> DeadYak: ok, i was just looking if someone else had already reported it in the bug tracker
[00:34:58] <miqlas> Why this buffer is not cleaned with an reboot?
[00:35:13] *** Wiss has joined #haiku
[00:35:16] <EuanK> because you didn't power down :)
[00:35:18] <DeadYak> plfiorini: I reported it in reply to his SVN commit, he knows about it
[00:35:21] <plfiorini> DeadYak: glad to see is already known
[00:35:29] <plfiorini> thanks
[00:35:35] <DeadYak> plfiorini: if you try doing an ls on the full path without any links, it will work fine, see for yourself
[00:35:44] <DeadYak> for instance, tail -f /boot/var/log/syslog will work
[00:35:53] <miqlas> And why the appserver dont erase this data before draw something. This is not good...
[00:35:58] <EuanK> ah handy to know
[00:35:59] <DeadYak> took me a bit to track down what was going wrong...
[00:36:08] <plfiorini> yes it works
[00:36:09] <DeadYak> because it's breaking svn for me :)
[00:36:09] <EuanK> it's not not good, it really doesn't matter
[00:36:16] <plfiorini> DeadYak: gcc for me :)
[00:36:20] *** oco has quit IRC
[00:36:30] <DeadYak> plfiorini: svn tries to access /etc/subversion/servers and gets an error code back so no ops are possible :)
[00:36:33] <plfiorini> DeadYak: i was surprised that there was no gcc in my build
[00:36:36] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku
[00:37:07] <plfiorini> DeadYak: heheh, the price to pay for self host announcements :)
[00:37:10] <miqlas> If i make an selection box with my mouse on the desktop i see graphical artifacts!
[00:37:27] *** Nies has quit IRC
[00:37:34] <DeadYak> EuanK: you think it might be possible his card needs to be DMA blacklisted?
[00:37:35] <plfiorini> DeadYak: 100% of the stuff can't work, if it works is a miracle because it never happens heh
[00:37:44] <DeadYak> EuanK: that sounds very similar to the issues I had prior to adding that
[00:37:44] <miqlas> Selection from top to right down: artifacts.
[00:38:00] <miqlas> Selection from top to left down: working correctly.
[00:38:07] <EuanK> no it needs blacklisted only if the DMA engine doesn't work
[00:38:27] <DeadYak> EuanK: right but the issues he's reporting sound suspiciously like what happens to my card without being on said list
[00:38:28] <EuanK> this is just a memory config / initialisation error by the sounds of things
[00:38:31] <DeadYak> ah.
[00:38:42] <EuanK> the 9800's have always been fine
[00:38:52] <DeadYak> maybe mtrr-related
[00:38:53] <DeadYak> ?
[00:38:53] <EuanK> I have a 9600 which was fine last time I tried
[00:38:56] <miqlas> Selection from down to left up: good
[00:38:58] <EuanK> yes probably mtrr
[00:39:01] <stpere> grr.. for 10 minutes, I was running a wrong version of the vmware images.. the one that didn't have my changes..
[00:39:05] <EuanK> or the AGP changes
[00:39:11] <miqlas> Selection from down to right up: artifacts
[00:39:19] * stpere hates himself in times like that
[00:39:36] <DeadYak> EuanK: was just a thought :)
[00:39:51] *** Cian has quit IRC
[00:40:16] *** duaneb has quit IRC
[00:40:17] <EuanK> I'll make a note to find a cheap AGP mobo on the net
[00:40:27] *** WindowsUninstall has quit IRC
[00:40:36] <EuanK> brb
[00:40:41] *** EuanK has quit IRC
[00:41:26] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
[00:42:51] <MichaelHenry> Is the NTFS driver ready for prime time?
[00:43:18] <mmadia42> i wouldn't say anything in a pre-alpha OS is ready for prime time.
[00:43:52] <MichaelHenry> ok, how about usable :)?
[00:44:26] <DeadYak> I'm not sure that NTFS driver works currently, I don't have an NTFS partition on that box to try with though to be honest
[00:44:57] <MichaelHenry> it is in the Haiku Tree
[00:45:10] <DeadYak> I know it is
[00:45:22] <DeadYak> but it might be out of date in terms of being kept up with the VFS API
[00:45:39] <DeadYak> it's not currently in the build I don't think
[00:46:12] <AnEvilYak>  /boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/ntfs
[00:46:13] <AnEvilYak>
[00:46:18] <AnEvilYak> nope, it's in the build
[00:46:23] <AnEvilYak> again, no NTFS partition to test with though
[00:46:35] <MichaelHenry> ok
[00:47:12] <MichaelHenry> i guess i will test it
[00:47:41] *** Wiss has quit IRC
[00:48:01] *** Wiss has joined #haiku
[00:48:31] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC
[00:48:37] *** luroh has quit IRC
[00:49:53] <miqlas> If i have an directory that contains lot of file sometimes the mouse scroll dont working correctly. I have only one scroll on my mouse, and if i scroll down , sometimes it will croll to right.
[00:51:08] <MYOB> any ftp.be.com mirrors around still?
[00:51:22] <DeadYak> MYOB: what're you looking for?
[00:51:27] <MYOB> the updated bdb
[00:51:35] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC
[00:51:37] <Al2O3_> MYOB, head on over to beshare :)
[00:51:48] <MYOB> found whats possibly it
[00:52:01] <Al2O3_> stpere, good thing it wasn't all day long
[00:52:16] <stpere> Al2O3_: yes
[00:52:18] *** EuanK has joined #haiku
[00:52:41] <Al2O3_> alright, vnc server for haiku yet?
[00:53:04] <Al2O3_> or  how to use VMWare, Q, or Virtual Box on OS X with integrated VNC Server as part of the VM system?
[00:53:09] <Al2O3_> I'm all for a solution, please please.
[00:54:53] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku
[00:55:57] <miqlas> I don't have menubar in SampleStudio....
[00:56:19] <miqlas> In haiku
[00:56:21] <DeadYak> I thought mmu_man did something with VNC at some point
[00:59:19] *** AnEvilYak has joined #haiku
[00:59:32] <plfiorini> there should be a php script in its 3rdparty folder
[00:59:40] <plfiorini> guess that uses vnc in java
[01:00:03] <mmu_man> maurice broke the build with gcc4...
[01:00:18] <mmu_man> DeadYak http://82.244.111.82/~revol/haiku.php ?
[01:00:32] <mmu_man> plfiorini yes that needs the vnc java applet
[01:00:38] <AnEvilYak> mmu_man: yeah that.
[01:00:59] <plfiorini> mmu_man: that was an impressive work!
[01:01:30] <plfiorini> too late!
[01:01:37] <plfiorini> gn8
[01:01:48] *** MYOB has quit IRC
[01:01:53] *** plfiorini has quit IRC
[01:02:26] <mmu_man> http://dev.haiku-os.org/browser/haiku/trunk/3rdparty/mmu_man/onlinedemo
[01:03:11] *** Wiss_ has joined #haiku
[01:04:32] * AnEvilYak prods mmu_man :)
[01:07:46] <mmu_man>  C++ generated/objects/haiku/x86/release/apps/mediaplayer/PlaylistWindow.o
[01:07:47] <mmu_man>  src/apps/mediaplayer/playlist/PlaylistWindow.h:49: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of 'BFilePanel' with no type
[01:07:48] <mmu_man>  src/apps/mediaplayer/playlist/PlaylistWindow.h:49: error: expected ';' before '*' token
[01:07:48] <mmu_man>  src/apps/mediaplayer/playlist/PlaylistWindow.h:50: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of 'BFilePanel' with no type
[01:07:49] <mmu_man>  src/apps/mediaplayer/playlist/PlaylistWindow.h:50: error: expected ';' before '*' token
[01:08:23] <miqlas> The Haiku is crashed...
[01:08:26] <miqlas> Sorry...
[01:08:32] <miqlas> Restart.
[01:08:57] <DeadYak> mmu_man: just needs the forward decl no?
[01:09:04] *** miqlas has quit IRC
[01:09:26] <CIA-47> mmu_man * r24734 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/mediaplayer/playlist/PlaylistWindow.h: Was missing BFilePanel class declaration.
[01:09:27] <mmu_man> that should do it.
[01:12:57] *** Wiss has quit IRC
[01:14:41] <Al2O3_> so, safe to say there is still no TCP/IP stack and/or VNC Server within Haiku yet?
[01:15:15] <DeadYak> TCP/IP stack, yes, VNC server no idea.
[01:15:24] <Al2O3_> I know Qemu does a 'fine' job of hosting a VNC Server, and so does  VMWare Server (apparently, never used it myself), but looking for VMWare Fusion VNC Server functionality or withink Haiku itself a NVC Sever.
[01:15:27] <Al2O3_> ok
[01:15:30] <Al2O3_> axel around?
[01:15:34] <DeadYak> nope.
[01:16:34] <Al2O3_> nice old read with him 5 years ago or so...http://www.osnews.com/story/4291/Interview_With_Axel_Dörfler_of_OpenBeOS
[01:17:24] *** wildur has quit IRC
[01:17:34] <Al2O3_> Dead, is there a browser for Haiku that works?
[01:17:37] *** waffer has joined #haiku
[01:17:49] <Al2O3_> WebKit based?  Remember something brewing a few months ago.
[01:18:16] <pyCube_> heh.. uh oh.. its april 1 "omg! delivery truck just hit a porsche in the parking garage!" joke time
[01:21:08] <DeadYak> Webkit's far from done
[01:21:23] <DeadYak> as for browsers that work, there's Links and Firefox ... admittedly the latter crashes sometimes though
[01:22:33] <Al2O3_> links requires Xwin?
[01:22:39] <DeadYak> nope.
[01:22:40] <Al2O3_> and firefox has a native for haiku?
[01:22:41] <Al2O3_> ok
[01:22:42] <Al2O3_> tx
[01:22:52] <DeadYak> Firefox for BONE works on Haiku
[01:22:55] <Al2O3_> looked or links and saw what looked to be X11 requirements
[01:22:57] <Al2O3_> ok
[01:23:00] <Al2O3_> will grab it
[01:23:01] <stpere> I just entered kdl
[01:23:13] <DeadYak> don't know if there's several versions of it on bebits or what, mmu_man has a Links package for Haiku
[01:23:18] <stpere> is there anything useful I can report?
[01:23:27] <Al2O3_> mmu_man: you have that package dead is referencing?
[01:23:33] <stpere> I was testing the DataTranslation
[01:23:34] <mmu_man> ?
[01:23:34] <Al2O3_> need a browser here for use in Haiku on VMWare in OS X
[01:23:36] <DeadYak> Al2O3_: Haiku's build sys can grab it
[01:23:43] <DeadYak> Al2O3_: optional package Links
[01:23:50] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/links-beos-bin.zip
[01:23:51] <stpere> just loading the preference panel for DataTranslation
[01:23:52] <Al2O3_> not familiar with the Haiku build system.
[01:23:55] <mmu_man> (gcc2)
[01:24:24] <mmu_man> has native gui
[01:24:29] <mmu_man> well display at least
[01:24:33] <Al2O3_> wget it now
[01:24:34] <mmu_man> no X
[01:24:39] <Al2O3_> 35 K /s
[01:24:40] <Al2O3_> thanks
[01:24:51] <Al2O3_> looks like net stack works in vmware, happy days are close at hand.
[01:25:03] <Al2O3_> vnc server either in VMWare or in Haiku would be Huge bonus today
[01:25:25] <Al2O3_> is there work for  hire, meaning if put a bounty on the vnc server working, would axel likely get excited and make it work?
[01:25:49] <Al2O3_> (option is to see if VMWare Server is available on OS X, likely not, thus my query about fusion and vnc server)
[01:26:50] <Al2O3_> btw, the nice icon sequence during boot loader is neat
[01:26:57] <Al2O3_> when did that come into play?
[01:27:01] <DeadYak> a few weeks ago
[01:27:06] <geist> when you weren't looking
[01:27:08] <Al2O3_> kinda sexy
[01:27:12] <geist> they snuck it in there
[01:27:13] <Al2O3_> geist, :)
[01:27:17] <DeadYak> lol geist
[01:27:23] <Al2O3_> I have been off Haiku waiting for vnc server for 2+ months.
[01:27:35] <Al2O3_> and a solid tcp/ip stack.
[01:27:36] <Al2O3_> time to stop waiting.
[01:27:54] <Al2O3_> please let axel know I need to talk to him, or whomever is doing or capible of doing the vnc server for haiku.
[01:28:00] <Al2O3_> this is rather important at this point, thanks.
[01:28:02] <DeadYak> the tcp/ip stack hasn't changed all that much since the summer, it'd been relatively solid for a while apart from things like ICMP
[01:28:17] <geist> ICMP is for chikdren
[01:28:22] <geist> children
[01:28:29] <DeadYak> with all due respect, I doubt anyone considers VNC server all that important considering all the lower-level stuff to finish
[01:29:00] <Al2O3_> Dead, Ryan mentioned to me at the meeting near sunnyvale last summer the tcp/ip stack was not solid then, and that there was little work done since on the vnc server (last talked to him in like nov or dec0
[01:29:21] <geist> probably the general system wasn't as stable
[01:29:22] <Al2O3_> dead, likely correct, and that doesn't need respect :)  although I appreciate it.
[01:29:34] <DeadYak> how solid it is pretty much depends on your network driver in my experience, I've had Haiku sitting online for 6-7 days straight without issues
[01:29:46] <Al2O3_> Dead, you are teasing me now.
[01:30:09] <Al2O3_> If the vnc server is running, I could have regression and GUI automation testing being done right now for baseline R5 and forward regress.
[01:30:32] <Al2O3_> that is actually fairly important moving forward as this alpha cycle and self hosting comes to fruition.
[01:30:33] <EuanK> hmm :
[01:30:34] <EuanK> template <class T>
[01:30:34] <EuanK> int count_bits_set(T value)
[01:30:34] <EuanK> {
[01:30:34] <EuanK> 	int count = 0;
[01:30:34] <EuanK> 	for (T mask = 1; mask; mask <<= 1)
[01:30:35] <EuanK> 		if (value & mask)
[01:30:37] <EuanK> 			count++;
[01:30:39] <EuanK> 	return count;
[01:30:41] <EuanK> }
[01:30:43] <EuanK> when does it stop???
[01:30:45] <Al2O3_> do we have a pastie bot somewhere?
[01:30:59] <DeadYak> EuanK: when does what stop? :)
[01:31:01] <EuanK> what if all bits are set?
[01:31:01] <geist> EuanK: it'll shift the bit off the end of mask, and it'll go to zero
[01:31:16] <EuanK> u sure about that?
[01:31:18] <DeadYak> yes.
[01:31:19] <geist> yes
[01:31:22] <Al2O3_> yep
[01:31:22] <EuanK> brave man
[01:31:32] <DeadYak> left shift puts a 0 in place of the shifted bits.
[01:31:41] <geist> well, provided 'T' can be used with a shift
[01:31:46] *** aljen has joined #haiku
[01:31:47] <DeadYak> only shift right arithmetic doesn't
[01:31:49] <geist> and that the semantics of the operator << let it go to zero
[01:31:50] <aljen> hey =)
[01:31:57] <EuanK> fair doos
[01:32:25] <geist> if you created a template with T being an iostream or something you'd get some fun behavior
[01:32:38] <DeadYak> geist: does iostream define operator& ?
[01:32:42] <EuanK> nah it's just an uint32
[01:32:48] <geist> probably not, but it does define operator <<
[01:32:49] <geist> :)
[01:32:59] <DeadYak> yeah but that'll bomb out without operator & also :)
[01:33:09] <geist> yea yeah, i'm sure it wont compile
[01:33:10] <DeadYak> but yeah, doing that to a std::string or whatnot would befun :)
[01:33:13] <DeadYak> would be*
[01:33:13] <geist> dont ruin my joke
[01:33:20] <DeadYak> sorry :(
[01:33:32] <geist> so guess haiku still isn't self hosting
[01:33:39] <geist> bga says it is, but it is 4/1
[01:33:45] <geist> so i have to assume it's the exact opposite
[01:34:28] <DeadYak> he actually did get it to compile, his fix has some problems though
[01:34:47] <geist> anyhoo, gotta go for a bit
[01:34:51] <DeadYak> as does Axel's fix to the fix right now, but I made him aware of that
[01:34:53] <DeadYak> later :)
[01:34:54] <geist> gonna take some crap to recycling
[01:34:55] <shackan> bye geist
[01:35:01] <DeadYak> recycling a SPARC? :P
[01:35:10] <geist> not yet. might get to that though
[01:35:18] <geist> ss2 I know i dont need nor wat
[01:35:24] *** dr_evil has quit IRC
[01:35:29] <geist> alongside the i960 based terminal next to it
[01:35:36] <geist> anyhoo, back in a while
[01:36:13] *** waffer has left #haiku
[01:41:47] *** capycube has joined #haiku
[01:46:49] <Al2O3_> mmu_man:  got it installed, looks simple and promising (links), is it a work in progress or just a browser to be used for basic needs until the webkit tool comes into existence?
[01:48:13] <mmu_man> didn't touch it for a while
[01:48:25] <mmu_man> webkit should be usable soon, so
[01:49:19] <Al2O3_> http://www.bebits.com/app/4107
[01:49:30] <Al2O3_> about 3 years now :)
[01:50:27] <mmu_man> that's the old version from mmlr
[01:50:30] <mmu_man> without gui
[01:51:10] <stpere> what MIME type should I use for event files?
[01:51:25] <Al2O3_> grabbing firefox now too.
[01:51:31] <Al2O3_> ah
[01:51:55] *** DHowett has left #haiku
[01:51:56] <Al2O3_> well, won't bother with that 2005 version, thanks for the gui version
[01:52:01] <Al2O3_> we'll see of ff works.
[01:52:13] <Al2O3_> ETA on a workable WebKit browser?
[01:52:43] <DeadYak> when Ryan has time again, he's busy dealing with Haiku Inc. transitioning still
[01:52:50] <DeadYak> + Webkit = gcc4 haiku only fyi.
[01:54:16] <Al2O3_> ok, pretty pokey firefox, but it does work :)  reminding myself I'm in a VM, that is nice
[01:54:20] <Al2O3_> will go with firefox.
[01:54:30] <Al2O3_> unless its crashes kill me :)
[01:55:01] <pyCube_> firefox would likely crash less if you didnt use it
[01:55:13] <Al2O3_> yes, that is very insightful :)
[01:55:46] <pyCube_> insight is a particular skill of mine
[01:56:20] <Al2O3_> lovely
[01:59:16] <Al2O3_> the april fools of branson and page/brin is great.
[02:00:08] <Al2O3_> Plan B :)
[02:00:18] <pyCube_> sheesh.. ffmpeg api change, lovely
[02:01:25] *** EuanK has quit IRC
[02:01:42] <pyCube_> now i get to figure out the difference and translate it into something i dont quite understand
[02:03:41] <Al2O3_> when is the ETA for the OpenJDK?
[02:07:19] *** bhy_ has joined #haiku
[02:08:58] <mmadia42> not today.
[02:10:20] *** daste has quit IRC
[02:13:55] *** bhy has quit IRC
[02:16:08] *** capycube has quit IRC
[02:41:50] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku
[02:43:27] <MichaelHenry> what does svn: XML parser failed in 'trunk/src/preferences' mean after running "svn cleanup trunk"
[02:49:08] *** mmadia42 has quit IRC
[02:50:55] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC
[02:57:25] <stpere> what is the easiest way to include a file to the build?
[02:57:40] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC
[02:57:51] <stpere> I'm kindof lost, the jamfile makes no mention of vmware
[02:59:18] <DeadYak> to include it in the image, you'd need to include it in the stuff that build/jam/HaikuImage maps
[02:59:30] <stpere> ah ok
[02:59:45] *** petterhj has quit IRC
[03:00:22] <stpere> thanks, I found my way now :)
[03:00:39] <DeadYak> np :)
[03:07:36] *** NeoOokami has joined #haiku
[03:07:48] <stpere> I have fixed the Jamfile, a trivial patch..
[03:07:55] *** AnEvilYak has joined #haiku
[03:08:03] <stpere> to include the PackageInstaller in the be menu
[03:08:22] <AnEvilYak> sorry?
[03:08:32] *** mmu_man has quit IRC
[03:09:20] <stpere> oh, I just said that I have a small patch almost ready to include the PackageInstaller in the Be Menu
[03:09:27] <DeadYak> ah
[03:09:34] <DeadYak> that should just involve creating a symlink :)
[03:09:41] <stpere> yes, trivial stuff
[03:09:51] <DeadYak> I wonder if the mime sniffer rules for pkgs are correct
[03:10:11] <stpere> it didn't open the package installer when I clicked on a .pkg
[03:10:18] <DeadYak> right
[03:10:34] <DeadYak> that's the more important thing :) not sure what the correct sniffer rule is for that offhand though, I don't know the pkg format offhand
[03:10:46] <DeadYak> but ideally there'd be a sniffer rule + mime type set up that opens them with PackageInstaller
[03:10:52] *** absabs has joined #haiku
[03:10:57] <stpere> that's in Jamfile too?
[03:11:14] <DeadYak> mm, not in that jamfile necessary, that might be in data/ somewhere
[03:11:15] <stpere> or source code?
[03:11:18] <stpere> ok
[03:11:19] <DeadYak> whatever generates the mime database during build
[03:11:20] <stpere> I will dig
[03:11:23] *** charlieg has joined #haiku
[03:11:28] <charlieg> congrats
[03:11:31] <absabs> hi Deadyak
[03:11:32] <stpere> :)
[03:12:25] <DeadYak> hiya :)
[03:13:17] <absabs> :P
[03:14:31] <ddew|bofh> *yawn and stretch*
[03:15:18] <ddew|bofh> heh, if it hadn't been april the 1st yesterday i'd be very excited about the contents of my inbox :)
[03:21:03] *** charlieg has left #haiku
[03:25:08] *** _Lucretia__ has joined #haiku
[03:26:23] *** umccullough_work has joined #haiku
[03:26:47] <umccullough_work> yeah...
[03:26:58] * umccullough_work kicks Luposian
[03:28:15] <DeadYak> thanks :)
[03:28:19] <DeadYak> he drives me insane
[03:28:34] <umccullough_work> seriously, that guy just doesn't get it I guess...
[03:28:35] <ddew|bofh> the Luposian "bug" again?
[03:28:40] <umccullough_work> well, not exactly...
[03:28:40] <DeadYak> no, a different one this time
[03:28:50] <umccullough_work> before it was "eats up memory until it crashes"
[03:28:51] <DeadYak> the luposian bug involved KDLing if you tried to copy a file too large to fit into mem
[03:28:58] <DeadYak> because we weren't doing writebacks
[03:29:04] <ddew|bofh> ah
[03:29:07] *** Tonik has quit IRC
[03:29:11] <DeadYak> unless you deliberately went to the terminal and hit sync;
[03:29:19] <umccullough_work> the guy just seems to want a soapbox and nothing more
[03:29:20] <ddew|bofh> while now he complains that going to kdl doesn't write your files to disk?
[03:29:25] <DeadYak> indeed
[03:29:30] <ddew|bofh> fucktard
[03:29:31] <DeadYak> and BGA just tried and failed to replicate his scenario anyways
[03:29:36] <umccullough_work> lol
[03:29:39] <umccullough_work> I'll try tonight
[03:29:51] <umccullough_work> since I feel a little guilty for calling it a myth ;)
[03:29:59] <DeadYak> my best guess is his hard disk *REALLY* lies about when it flushes cache
[03:30:04] <ddew|bofh> seriously, going to kdl is like the most painful thing you can to to the os
[03:30:09] <DeadYak> which is a very common trick with cheap hardware
[03:30:13] *** CIA-47 has quit IRC
[03:30:15] <DeadYak> to make it look faster than it is
[03:30:17] <umccullough_work> he does claim 30 seconds though
[03:30:25] <umccullough_work> 30 seconds is a long time...
[03:30:26] <DeadYak> yep
[03:30:30] <DeadYak> and the page writer fires off every 3 seconds
[03:30:33] <umccullough_work> oh
[03:30:43] <umccullough_work> so, yeah - should have happened ;)
[03:30:46] <DeadYak> watch the kernel team for yourself :)
[03:30:57] <DeadYak> the thread's just called page writer so it's pretty easy to track :)
[03:30:58] <umccullough_work> maybe if he listed his hardware - that would actually HELP people help him :D
[03:31:12] <umccullough_work> could be a wonky controller or driver i suppose
[03:31:56] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC
[03:32:26] <DeadYak> generally that part is more or less up to the hdd
[03:32:40] <DeadYak> controller tells hdd to flush, hdd is supposed to not return until the cache is written back
[03:32:48] <DeadYak> there's not much more to it really
[03:33:05] <DeadYak> that's a bigger problem too, because journalling filesystems rely on that to work correctly
[03:33:10] <DeadYak> since writes to the journal are always done synchronously
[03:33:15] <DeadYak> and as such expected to be flushed immediately
[03:33:31] <umccullough_work> hmm... what stephan says seems to conflict with what bruno tested
[03:33:37] <DeadYak> pardon?
[03:33:44] <umccullough_work> stephan just responded on the list
[03:34:02] <umccullough_work> and honestly, if it works like stephan claims - that's pretty stupid
[03:34:42] <umccullough_work> i think haiku's page_writer should be writing furiously on a background thread - but i guess maybe that's what the lacking i/o scheduler would be for?
[03:35:28] <DeadYak> indeed
[03:35:45] <DeadYak> the idea behind the io scheduler is to track system load and adjust how much is being written back to disk accordingly
[03:35:51] <DeadYak> i.e. if you're doing exactly jack, hammer the disk
[03:35:59] <DeadYak> if you're doing lots of other stuff, throttle it back
[03:36:09] <DeadYak> but that requires a relatively sophisticated algorithm which isn't so trivial to implement
[03:36:10] <umccullough_work> even if you're doing something 32kb every 3 seconds is dumb
[03:36:23] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC
[03:36:33] <DeadYak> also the iosched is supposed to do things like reorder writes to minimize disk seeks and so forth
[03:36:44] <DeadYak> which is especially important for getting haiku on a live CD to acceptable performance
[03:36:48] <DeadYak> though s/writes/reads in that case
[03:36:50] <umccullough_work> :)
[03:37:17] <DeadYak> so it's pretty much one of those things where either you can throw in a bunch of crappy hacks now and have it work better some of the time, or write a proper io scheduler and get all of it done "right" at once
[03:37:25] <DeadYak> the choice has been the latter as time permits
[03:39:24] <umccullough_work> I think what chaps me the most is that he doesn't seem to have any intent to file a real bug in Trac - but rather use the mailing list and his comments to grandstand and rant with absurd amounts of useless detail and wording
[03:39:36] <DeadYak> and OSN comments
[03:39:37] <DeadYak> and here
[03:39:40] <umccullough_work> yeah
[03:39:41] <DeadYak> thankfully not as often here
[03:39:48] <umccullough_work> like he just needs a cause to do it :P
[03:40:03] <umccullough_work> he scares the shit out of me - i'd not want to meet him in real life
[03:40:09] <DeadYak> that makes two of us
[03:40:19] <DeadYak> wouldn't surprise me if he's on some meds for manic-depressive or something
[03:40:26] <umccullough_work> lol
[03:40:32] <umccullough_work> something anyway
[03:40:37] <ddew|bofh> there's nothing wrong with meds for that
[03:40:43] <DeadYak> didn't say there was
[03:40:51] <DeadYak> just saying he strikes me as the type to have some form of condition like that
[03:41:03] <umccullough_work> he definitely has some social issues :)
[03:41:57] <DeadYak> I also find it somewhat annoying how he likes to uppercase random words in his emails, it makes me feel like I'm reading Zippy the Pinhead strips :)
[03:42:13] <ddew|bofh> hehe
[03:42:25] <umccullough_work> heh
[03:42:44] <stpere> ok, that's it, I block all email from luposian :)
[03:42:47] <umccullough_work> I'm guessing he hasn't shown up here to complain about his nick?
[03:42:53] <DeadYak> pardon?
[03:43:11] <ddew|bofh> gah, top-posting
[03:43:30] <salierix> luposian is back again it seems?
[03:43:34] *** CIA-45 has joined #haiku
[03:43:44] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, "Luposian" wasn't registered with nickserv ;)
[03:43:47] <DeadYak> ah
[03:43:52] <umccullough_work> sooo....
[03:44:00] <stpere> haha
[03:44:06] <DeadYak> I doubt he knows anything about nickserv, he seems to be using a web-based IRC client when he does come here
[03:44:07] <stpere> that's mean
[03:44:07] <salierix> Whoops.
[03:45:49] <DeadYak> luckily he doesn't show up here that often
[03:46:38] <umccullough_work> well, for the meantime, i own his nick and I think i'll keep it that way ;)
[03:46:48] <DeadYak> did you set it to protected? :P
[03:46:51] <umccullough_work> nah
[03:46:55] <umccullough_work> just keeping it logged in
[03:47:04] <umccullough_work> i could get really mean and reg it
[03:47:05] *** stargater has quit IRC
[03:47:16] <DeadYak> oh.
[03:47:21] <DeadYak> I thought you meant you did
[03:47:28] <umccullough_work> maybe i will... we'll see ;)
[03:47:49] <umccullough_work> certainly, "Luposian" can't be his real name
[03:47:54] <DeadYak> bleah, checkout on the other box is taking forever
[03:48:04] * DeadYak hits berlios
[03:48:27] <umccullough_work> granted, that's his email address at cox.net...odd
[03:48:41] <DeadYak> cox lets you pick whatever you want as an email username
[03:48:47] <DeadYak> I used to have them back in Tucson as well
[03:49:09] <umccullough_work> assuming this is him: http://www.freewebs.com/luposian/sadrabbitwarrior.htm
[03:49:14] <umccullough_work> looks like his name is at the bottom
[03:49:43] <umccullough_work> and it does appear to be his...
[03:50:00] <DeadYak> could be
[03:50:17] <umccullough_work> has his email address on the home link
[03:50:19] <umccullough_work> http://www.freewebs.com/luposian/index.htm
[03:50:22] <DeadYak> ah
[03:50:58] <stpere> where can I find the icon for .pkg?
[03:51:18] <AnEvilYak> ooh, checkout done
[03:51:18] <salierix> Seriously though, is any work being done on syncing the cache to disk with a bit more regularity?
[03:51:30] <AnEvilYak> read stippi's reply
[03:51:37] <AnEvilYak> that pretty much goes hand in hand with doing a real i/o scheduler
[03:52:08] <geist> AnEvilYak: never gonna give you up
[03:52:08] <umccullough_work> First Name 	Jared
[03:52:08] <umccullough_work> Age 	36
[03:52:08] <umccullough_work> Gender 	Male
[03:52:12] <geist> AnEvilYak: never gonna let you down
[03:52:17] <AnEvilYak> geist: not Rick Astley, no!
[03:52:23] <geist> AnEvilYak: never gonna run around and desert you
[03:52:26] * AnEvilYak cries
[03:52:33] * umccullough_work rolls
[03:52:52] <salierix> Whenever I get rick roll'ed, for some reason I let the song play all the way through...
[03:52:52] <geist> youtube epic win
[03:53:07] <AnEvilYak> how did the whole rickrolling thing even start?
[03:53:31] <geist> that's what is so insidious about it. it's a pretty catchy tune
[03:53:46] * umccullough_work checks his mp3 collection
[03:54:15] <AnEvilYak> personally I think it'd be even more evil to weeblroll people
[03:54:18] <AnEvilYak> for lack of a better word
[03:54:27] <AnEvilYak> everybody need to own a blimp you know 'cause blimps are pretty pimp....
[03:54:41] <AnEvilYak> I swear if weebls-stuff ever gets into the business of advertising jingles, we're all doomed
[03:55:41] <CIA-45> bonefish * r24736 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/fs/vfs.cpp:
[03:55:41] <CIA-45> Also check whether the supplied vnode is a directory, if there's only
[03:55:41] <CIA-45> one path component.
[03:57:58] *** Wiss_ has quit IRC
[04:01:27] <stpere> ok, I have associated the .pkg files to PackageInstaller
[04:01:48] <stpere> it should clear a confusion to newcomers
[04:01:52] <stpere> as I had
[04:01:56] <DeadYak> that would definitely be nice :)
[04:02:09] <stpere> I lack an icon
[04:02:23] <DeadYak> there's not one in artwork anywhere?
[04:02:31] <stpere> oh.. right, let me look
[04:03:08] <DeadYak> (mind you, there may well not be)
[04:04:12] <salierix> No icon for .pkg files?
[04:04:45] <stpere> nothing specific
[04:04:55] <stpere> there are archives one that could be modified I guess
[04:05:04] <stpere> folder too
[04:05:11] <DeadYak> if you aren't the artistic type, you could always ask on the ml :)
[04:05:19] <DeadYak> Stippi's usually pretty good about generating missing icons
[04:05:49] <stpere> ok
[04:06:08] <stpere> I will simply let it like that and ask the ml
[04:06:20] <stpere> submitting the patch first, of course
[04:07:01] <stpere> oh question about svn, I have other changes not yet in main rep, how can I ignore those change that are not relevent to the patch I want to create
[04:07:21] <DeadYak> svn diff /path/to/file1 svn diff /path/to/file2, etc.
[04:07:49] <umccullough_work> can't you specify all the files with spaces between them?
[04:07:52] <stpere> oh simple
[04:07:54] <umccullough_work> i've never tried...
[04:08:23] <geist> oh wow, just read the luposian thread
[04:08:24] <geist> fun stuff
[04:08:39] <geist> the crazies are out again
[04:08:44] <umccullough_work> woot!
[04:09:04] <geist> if the guy wasn't just so frickin batshit insane, folks might listen to him
[04:09:09] <umccullough_work> lol
[04:09:47] <geist> not sure if you were there at the time, but the Be mailing lists had a lot of crazies back then too
[04:09:56] <umccullough_work> i wasn't :/
[04:09:59] <DeadYak> geist: didn't Be shut down beusertalk for that exact reason?
[04:10:03] <geist> there was always one or two local nutjobs at any point
[04:10:08] <geist> DeadYak: yeah, i think so
[04:10:16] <umccullough_work> bet that was fun - fanatical crazy people looking for somewhere to expose themselves
[04:10:19] <DeadYak> I remember them shutting it down because the S/N ratio was getting too lwo
[04:10:20] <DeadYak> low*
[04:10:30] <stpere> hmm, is "Binary package made by Software Valet" a good description?
[04:10:36] <geist> yeah. operating system stuff always seem to attract a certain crowd
[04:10:37] <stpere> for the mime-type
[04:10:51] <stpere> oh anyway, you are free to correct :)
[04:11:13] <DeadYak> that's fine for now :)
[04:11:15] * umccullough_work wonders if he's part of a certain crowd
[04:11:16] <geist> never gonna give you up
[04:11:33] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: the "at work way too late at night" crowd?
[04:11:46] <geist> umccullough_work: oh we all are, it's just a particular subset of the crowd is insane and/or completely unable to express themselves
[04:12:00] <geist> i'm trying to remember the local crazy at the time of Be
[04:12:06] <geist> michael something. man dont remember
[04:12:16] <DeadYak> local as in @ Be?
[04:12:16] <geist> i think he was bipolar or something
[04:12:29] <DeadYak> yeah, I was kinda wondering if Luposian was
[04:12:30] <umccullough_work> heh
[04:12:32] <geist> well, local is a bad word
[04:12:42] <umccullough_work> resident?
[04:12:43] <geist> local as in 'part of the small community of Be people'
[04:12:54] <DeadYak> oh
[04:12:59] <DeadYak> I probably missed most of those since I was only on becodetalk/bedevtalk
[04:13:00] <geist> as opposed to the nonlocal people that always interact with teh community
[04:13:22] <geist> as in folks that pop in to ask what the hell is going on, why bother, etc
[04:13:36] <DeadYak> "Why don't you all give up and use linux instead?"
[04:13:37] <DeadYak> those guys?
[04:13:41] <geist> right
[04:13:48] <umccullough_work> "Microsoft already owns the market, give up"
[04:13:56] <DeadYak> I remember people used to come into #beos saying that all the time back when Be was still around
[04:14:11] <geist> imagine explaining why you're working there
[04:14:15] <DeadYak> lol
[04:14:30] <umccullough_work> cuz i want to be part of a big failure! :)
[04:14:39] <geist> yay big failures!
[04:14:44] <umccullough_work> epic!
[04:15:04] <umccullough_work> sometimes i wonder if that's what i'm doing now...
[04:15:13] <umccullough_work> but whatever...
[04:15:44] <geist> oh, decided i'm gonna toss a few more machines this weekend:
[04:16:10] <geist> sun blade 100, 1U rack server (used to be newos.org!), probably that athlon, probably a sparcstation or two
[04:16:23] <umccullough_work> :(
[04:16:33] <umccullough_work> freecycle?
[04:16:35] <DeadYak> bbiab, groceries :)
[04:16:50] <geist> umccullough_work: dunnop,, freecycle doesn't seem to be able that kind of techy stuff
[04:16:55] <umccullough_work> oh
[04:16:57] <geist> people are giving away candles, for cryin out loud
[04:17:02] <umccullough_work> heh
[04:17:07] <umccullough_work> e-waste then?
[04:17:10] <geist> candles, a ball of yarn, some lint from the couch, a pen
[04:17:16] <geist> probably ewaste it, yeah
[04:17:32] <geist> i'll never toss a bebox or anything rare, though
[04:17:37] <umccullough_work> :)
[04:17:48] <geist> bebox, next slab, commodore, apple ][, atari 2600, colecovision
[04:17:54] <geist> guess i'll haul those around forever
[04:18:02] <umccullough_work> apple II...
[04:18:13] <umccullough_work> i have a spare Apple 5.25 drive btw if you're interested
[04:18:18] <umccullough_work> dunno if it works
[04:18:19] <geist> N O
[04:18:23] <umccullough_work> okydoke :)
[04:18:31] <geist> last i counted i had like 6 or 7 of those
[04:18:31] <salierix> Did mmu_man ever get haiku running on that m68k computer?
[04:18:48] <umccullough_work> salierix, don't think so - he was using emulation anyway
[04:18:53] <geist> think he's been pretty busy
[04:18:54] <umccullough_work> aranym
[04:19:26] <umccullough_work> his grand plan was to eventually use the LC III he was given
[04:19:30] <geist> oh, interesting. apparenlty rick astley actually has a women
[04:19:32] <umccullough_work> AFAIK
[04:19:38] <umccullough_work> a women?
[04:19:44] <geist> woman
[04:19:52] <umccullough_work> ah... so not flaming?
[04:19:57] <geist> had a kid and everything
[04:20:07] <geist> yeah, of course that doesn't mean that much all in all
[04:20:11] <umccullough_work> true
[04:20:17] <geist> but still, that video is pretty flaming
[04:20:20] <geist> though it has the token chick
[04:20:21] <umccullough_work> ;)
[04:20:34] <geist> i always figured that was there to confuse you
[04:20:43] <geist> cause you know he's singing for the bartender
[04:22:16] <stpere> oh, I forgot to put [PATCH] in my tickets..
[04:22:34] <umccullough_work> bah, oh well :)
[04:22:52] <umccullough_work> was just a proposal anyway - and seems like axel didn't care either way
[04:23:39] <umccullough_work> yay, lately the extent of my "Software Development" involved editing a 700kb XML file with a text editor and writing some SQL
[04:23:43] <umccullough_work> involves
[04:23:52] <umccullough_work> i feel really ... special
[04:24:15] <geist> did you use notepad?
[04:24:21] <geist> if so, you win
[04:24:26] <umccullough_work> i'm currently using notepad2 :/
[04:24:29] <umccullough_work> does that count?
[04:24:31] <geist> woot
[04:24:39] <geist> does it understand unix line endings?
[04:24:44] <umccullough_work> it has highlighting...probably disqualifies
[04:24:57] <umccullough_work> yeah, it does happen to understand unix line ends
[04:25:08] * umccullough_work hangs head in shame
[04:25:21] <umccullough_work> i'm not a real windows developer
[04:25:31] <geist> well, no. that's a good sign
[04:25:34] <geist> tat means it's a real editor
[04:25:41] <umccullough_work> right...like i said
[04:25:42] <geist> unlike, say, notepad or visual studio
[04:25:58] <umccullough_work> visual studio was pissing me off...so i went to notepad2 instead :)
[04:26:03] <umccullough_work> small, fast, scintilla based
[04:26:22] <umccullough_work> doesn't do xml node collapsing which pisses off my co-workers ;)
[04:28:15] <geist> your cow-orkers need to get a life
[04:28:25] <umccullough_work> well, one of them anyway
[04:28:51] <umccullough_work> he's just "spoiled" by using Vstudio
[04:29:14] <stpere> I feel good, 3 patches (simple, mind you) in 2 days
[04:29:18] <umccullough_work> nice
[04:29:41] <umccullough_work> keep 'em up and maybe they'll consider you for the next round of commit access :D
[04:29:47] <stpere> :)
[04:30:17] <umccullough_work> reminds me - i wanna attempt a new port of the freebsd dp83815 driver (if_sis)
[04:30:18] <salierix> stpere, what are you working on?
[04:30:54] *** Anxiety|Home has joined #haiku
[04:31:01] <stpere> I'm starting a project, but I'm warming myself on small correction s in Haiku
[04:31:54] <stpere> the project I'm starting will enhance both People and Remember apps
[04:32:26] <stpere> a todo list, agenda/calendar with attendees from people contacts
[04:32:58] <stpere> maybe in a later iteration a deskbar plugin to get a calendar in it
[04:33:09] <stpere> with your events in bold or something like that
[04:34:32] <salierix> Oh I saw that on the dev list.
[04:37:04] *** TheNerd__ has joined #haiku
[04:37:42] *** waffer has joined #haiku
[04:38:15] <stpere> between 2 luporian post :)
[04:38:44] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[04:39:03] <stpere> stpere==Philippe
[04:39:56] <umccullough_work> heh
[04:39:57] <mmadia> i swear... sometimes i don't understand what makes hardware work.
[04:40:11] <umccullough_work> it works hard for you...
[04:40:19] *** CodeAnxiety has quit IRC
[04:40:25] <mmadia> i've a socket A, next tome...
[04:40:42] <mmadia> i plug in another hard drive, as master into the 2nd ide chain.  pc wont post.
[04:40:46] <mmadia> take it out,  wont post.
[04:41:07] <mmadia> reset CMOS via jumper.  via removing the battery,  wont post.
[04:41:18] <mmadia> curse, drink, curse, drink some more.
[04:41:59] <umccullough_work> bad caps?
[04:42:02] <mmadia> eventually rip out the keyboard, mouse, and video cables. boot.   hear a new hard drive noise.  plug them back in and it's mid-post.
[04:42:32] <mmadia> they don't look bad.. there's no bulges or leaks.
[04:42:37] <umccullough_work> by chance, did you happen to have a ps2 mouse plugge dinto the ps2 keyboard port?
[04:42:46] <mmadia> no.
[04:42:56] <umccullough_work> i remember finding out that causes some machines not to post ;)
[04:43:16] <mmadia> first it was on the kvm, then i decided to  kill the kvm and hook it up directly.
[04:43:27] *** __toddb__ has joined #haiku
[04:43:44] <mmadia> so now that it boots, i'm debating trying to hook up the 2nd hard drive again : D
[04:43:57] <stpere> hehehe
[04:44:03] <stpere> ask the oracle
[04:44:33] <umccullough_work> the oracle will just tell you: 11g
[04:44:44] <__toddb__> 42
[04:44:53] <stpere> ;-)
[04:45:08] <stpere> I can compute a more elaborate answer in 3 billion year
[04:45:16] * stpere presses CTRL+ALT+DEL
[04:45:23] <stpere> infinite loop, no doubt
[04:45:38] <mmadia> on a different pc,  the manual states it supports 4 gb ram... i toss a 1gb stick of pc3200 in each of the 4 slots and only 3.5gb is detected by the most recent bios.
[04:45:53] <umccullough_work> mmadia, that's...
[04:45:57] <umccullough_work> well...
[04:46:02] <umccullough_work> ask geist about that :)
[04:46:03] <mmadia> here's the kicker.
[04:46:28] <mmadia> maybe one of the sticks is bad.  ok,  remove the 4th stick.   exactly 3gb.   swap one for the 4th stick and exactly 3gb.
[04:46:47] <umccullough_work> the bios is reserving the top 512
[04:47:00] <mmadia> .... eh ?
[04:47:28] <stpere> hmm
[04:47:34] <stpere> onboard graphics?
[04:47:39] <mmadia> nope.
[04:47:46] <umccullough_work> it varies by hardware
[04:47:49] <__toddb__> offboard graphics?
[04:48:02] <burfi> os needs some space for mapping the hardware
[04:48:03] <mmadia> well, they're onboard a seperate board from the motherboard ; )
[04:48:12] <stpere> :)
[04:48:29] <__toddb__> what do you need the ram for?
[04:48:45] <burfi> yes, even discrete graphics needs to be mapped somewhere
[04:48:49] <mmadia> burfi 3.5 out of 4gb is being reported by the bios.... i'm not even looking t the os yet.
[04:48:57] <burfi> oh!
[04:49:05] <ddew|bofh> checked for a bios update?
[04:49:16] <mmadia> __toddb__ because because because of all the wonderful things it does.
[04:49:23] <__toddb__> hmm.. you running 32 bit or 64 bit?
[04:49:26] <ddew|bofh> i've seen more than one occasion where a bios update was needed to see all the ram
[04:49:35] * mmadia 's 3yo nephew has been on a Wizard of Oz kick.
[04:49:50] <umccullough_work> mmadia, nvidia card?
[04:50:29] <mmadia> yeah.  an Asus 7300 GT
[04:50:54] <umccullough_work> yeah, apparently they sometimes steal the top 512mb ram from the memory pool
[04:51:01] <umccullough_work> virtual that is
[04:51:16] <umccullough_work> so, you only see it when your physical overlaps
[04:51:19] <mmadia> is that for the "turbocache" enabled cards?
[04:51:25] <umccullough_work> dunno
[04:51:32] <umccullough_work> i was just gonna go look on nvidia's site for more info
[04:51:34] <ddew|bofh> yes it is
[04:51:47] <ddew|bofh> or rather, the turbocache cards do that
[04:52:06] <__toddb__> you could mount usb drive as additional ram.. :P
[04:52:21] <mmadia> iirc, this is not a turbocache card.  i  could pop in a 7300 LE and see if it has similar issues though.
[04:52:41] <mmadia> __toddb__  i actually want to try creating a ramdisk in haiku for compiling purposes : D
[04:52:45] *** TheNerd_ has quit IRC
[04:53:06] <__toddb__> heh, wish I still had a computer could try running beos or some variant on
[04:53:07] <mmadia> well , more technically a ramFS
[04:53:24] <umccullough_work> looks like a 64-bit OS would allow it to overcome that limitation
[04:53:27] <umccullough_work> even if the BIOS reports 3.5
[04:53:52] <__toddb__> what mode does bios boot into? 32 or 64?
[04:53:54] <ddew|bofh> i'd kill to be able to boot haiku with more than 3.5gb in the box
[04:54:25] <umccullough_work> and apparently too much ram with an nvidia card can sometimes cause boot failure -- strnage
[04:54:25] *** NeoOokami has quit IRC
[04:55:12] <umccullough_work> oh...maybe that's unrelated
[04:55:25] <__toddb__> assuming bios always boots into 32 and its up to kernel of os to switch to 64 so would make sense that bios wouldn't allow you to see the full 4 gigs
[04:55:50] <umccullough_work> mmadia, wait - this is a non-64-bit CPU?
[04:56:02] <umccullough_work> you said socket a
[04:56:02] <mmadia> amd 64 x2 3800+
[04:56:05] <umccullough_work> oh
[04:56:14] <mmadia> *a different pc
[04:56:15] <umccullough_work> so, a 939?
[04:56:17] <umccullough_work> oh
[04:56:19] <__toddb__> doesn't amd 64 support 32bit os's though?
[04:56:21] <umccullough_work> am2?
[04:56:34] <mmadia> 939, recommended by a fellow beos user.
[04:56:45] <umccullough_work> __toddb__, yeah, unrelated i think
[04:56:54] <umccullough_work> right, tigerdog ;)
[04:57:20] * mmadia grins
[04:57:22] <__toddb__> I would look at ram in os..
[04:58:01] <umccullough_work> well, linux would use the full 4gb if it could
[04:58:05] <umccullough_work> XP wouldn't
[04:58:11] <umccullough_work> beos won't even pretend to consider it ;)
[04:58:16] <__toddb__> xp 64 would
[04:58:16] <umccullough_work> Haiku might not even boot
[04:58:30] <umccullough_work> yeah, not many people even own a copy of xp64 ;)
[04:58:57] <mmadia> zeta's 1.51 kernel reads it as -768mb : P
[04:59:01] <umccullough_work> heh
[04:59:06] <stpere> night everyone
[04:59:30] <absabs> night
[05:00:01] <umccullough_work> mmadia, i dunno - nvidia's knowledgebase sucks
[05:00:12] <umccullough_work> but ask geist if he comes alive again
[05:00:13] <mmadia> yes it does : )
[05:00:31] <umccullough_work> i'm certain i've heard people report other BIOS having similar problems
[05:00:32] <__toddb__> geez windows 2008 sdk takes forever to install
[05:00:35] * mmadia reaches for a defibrillator
[05:00:58] <mmadia> d'you remember if haiku is able to access the whole 4gb? : )
[05:01:13] <umccullough_work> last i heard, it might not even boot with 4gb :P
[05:01:35] <umccullough_work> also, i gather it's not going to be able to use it anyway - probably same problem as XP
[05:01:49] <umccullough_work> but hey - who would ever need more than 3.5gb of ram anyway?
[05:01:55] * umccullough_work grins
[05:02:09] <ddew|bofh> *groan*
[05:02:13] <__toddb__> xp can see max of 4 gigs I thought, but had problems with over 3 because of vm
[05:02:19] <ddew|bofh> i'm so sick of that urban legend
[05:02:31] <umccullough_work> __toddb__, it will only see 4gb if you use xp64 or enable PAE
[05:02:48] <geist> and less than 4GB, depending on how your BIOS lays out ram
[05:03:01] <geist> the worst i've seen is some dells at work that put all ram > 2GB over 4GB
[05:03:06] <geist> so xp would only see 2GB of it
[05:03:06] <__toddb__> I only ever run 2 gigs in xp anyways..
[05:03:37] <DeadYak> PC-style BIOS boots in real mode afaik...EFI might be able to boot directly into x86-64 mode though
[05:03:49] <DeadYak> not really sure on that
[05:03:57] <umccullough_work> geist, do some BIOS not see all 4gb?
[05:04:02] <mmadia> think about it... compiling haiku in haiku in a ramdisk.    or mozilla or heck, hello world for that matter.
[05:04:20] <geist> umccullough_work: depends on how it maps it
[05:04:30] * mmadia feels SOL
[05:04:36] <umccullough_work> i read somewhere that nvidia cards can steal the top 256/512
[05:04:37] <__toddb__> xp reserves half your ram for the os.. everytime ran an app over 1.5 gigs it will crash app
[05:04:41] <geist> they 'see' 4GB, but whatever ram they remap over 4GB physical, windows xp 32bit can't see
[05:05:01] <geist> umccullough_work: that's correct. though it's actually the bios that does that
[05:05:04] *** waffer has left #haiku
[05:05:11] <geist> it's simply providing physical address space for the card to get mapped into
[05:05:17] <umccullough_work> geist, that's what I meant - so the BIOS reserves it for the card then and doesn't report it available?
[05:05:26] <geist> no, it maps it > 4GB
[05:05:29] <geist> that's the point
[05:05:35] <umccullough_work> hmm
[05:05:41] <geist> it puts a discontinuty in ram
[05:05:49] <mmadia> crap, and i just mailed helf's pci video cards today.
[05:05:52] <geist> ram 0-3GB, 3GB-4GB pci, 4GB-5GB ram.
[05:05:54] <geist> for example
[05:06:16] <umccullough_work> oh, so the PCI bus gets the upper part of the 4gb?
[05:06:16] <geist> some bioses do a better job than others
[05:06:34] <geist> upper part of the first 4GB of physical address space of the cpu, yes
[05:06:46] <umccullough_work> ok
[05:06:54] <geist> the fact that pc bioses put pci space there is purely by convention
[05:07:01] <geist> the pci space doesn't need to be anywhere in particular
[05:07:13] <geist> but it needs to be mapped soewhere for thecpu to see it
[05:07:43] <geist> since PCs still run a lot of purely 32bit oses, with no PAE activated, they have to put it <4GB
[05:08:11] <umccullough_work> so logically, they just chose the furthest place out as they could, assuming nobody would ever have that much ;)
[05:08:31] <__toddb__> anyone tried windows 2008 server?
[05:08:36] <umccullough_work> not yet
[05:08:39] <geist> well, that and earlier oses probably coulnd't deal with the discontinutiy and never could deal with ram > 4GB anyway
[05:08:56] <geist> so with that restriction, then the OS has one logical run of ram before pci space
[05:09:01] <__toddb__> I am considering it, but don't need 5 licenses, and at 1K a little steep
[05:10:02] <umccullough_work> don't need 5 licenses? you just running it as a workstation then?
[05:10:14] <geist> only OS code written in the last 5 years or so on consumer stuff has really tried to deal with the large memory issue
[05:10:26] <__toddb__> have a box not really using, with vista ultimate edition on it, wouldn't mind having it as server..
[05:10:39] <umccullough_work> yeah, seems reasonable - don't code for the problem until it exists
[05:10:43] <__toddb__> starting a mud using c# 3...
[05:10:55] <geist> mind you it did 'exist' for large x86 servers for a while
[05:11:02] <geist> since PAE has been around over 10 years or so
[05:11:03] <umccullough_work> true
[05:11:14] <geist> and win2k I believe was the first to try to really deal with it
[05:11:15] <umccullough_work> in fact, i've run into w2k servers with upwards fo 16gb on them
[05:11:16] <geist> server
[05:11:17] <mmadia> geist so would disabling bios calls help Haiku to see that block of ram?
[05:11:31] <geist> mmadia: hmm? what is the problem precisely?
[05:11:54] <__toddb__> its funny how windows maps multiple processors, isn't there like a 32 processor limit, because its a bitmask of an int..
[05:12:17] <umccullough_work> probably
[05:12:21] <geist> __toddb__: that's kind of an urban myth
[05:12:23] <mmadia> i boot a socket 939, amd 64 x2 and only see 3.5 out of (4) 1gb sticks even though the motherboard manual claims to support 4gb of ram.
[05:12:35] <geist> it was previously limited to 32 processors because it'd probably run like complete crap on a machine that large
[05:12:36] <__toddb__> not true?
[05:12:42] <geist> so the 32bit thing is not really the culprit
[05:12:42] <mmadia> i've swapped sticks around to confirm that one is not faulty.
[05:12:54] <geist> large chunks of the kernel would need to be heavily rewritten to scale that large anyway
[05:13:01] <mmadia> and the board has the newest bios revision.
[05:13:10] <geist> once you get up ast 8 or 16 cpus you start getting into some fun voodoo to scale
[05:13:16] <umccullough_work> i bet
[05:13:21] <__toddb__> thats the case with lots of os's schedulers though, beyond 3 processors and one processor is spending all its time scheduling
[05:13:36] <geist> if the design is oldskool, yeah
[05:13:56] <geist> i *think* MSFT rewrote that in vista
[05:14:06] <geist> though it may have been in XP
[05:14:20] <__toddb__> from my understanding vista is still using xp kernel
[05:14:31] <geist> it's not identical, no
[05:14:36] <geist> there are pretty substantial differences
[05:14:43] <__toddb__> just heavily modified with new networking stack and system is way more modular
[05:14:48] <umccullough_work> the IO for example :P
[05:14:53] <geist> but it's sort of the equivalent to saying it uses 2.6.24 versus 2.6.13
[05:15:08] <geist> same genealogy, most of the code is probably the same, but some pieces have been hacked
[05:15:09] <__toddb__> 2008 new kernel?
[05:15:30] <__toddb__> I am waiting on managed kernel, was kind of pissed cut it from xp
[05:15:34] <umccullough_work> doesn't the Vista SP1 allegedly bring it in sync with 2008?
[05:15:36] <__toddb__> err vista !xp
[05:15:46] <ddew|bofh> hmm, looks like makeinfo is farked on haiku
[05:15:51] <geist> umccullough_work: i thought so. someone had pointed out the kernel version is basically identical to 2008
[05:16:01] <umccullough_work> ddew|bofh, worked for me before...
[05:16:04] <geist> but MSFT has been pretty loath to make much kernel changes over the years
[05:16:14] <ddew|bofh> sp1 kernel _is_ 2008 kernel
[05:16:24] <__toddb__> is kernel managed?
[05:16:28] <geist> there have really only been a handful of changes to major pieces of the NT kernel since about 4.0
[05:16:46] <geist> probably the biggest change is simply porting it to 64bit cpus
[05:16:46] <__toddb__> 4.0 or 5.0?
[05:17:00] <__toddb__> win2k felt way different than nt4
[05:17:03] <ddew|bofh> umccullough_work: i'm building the crosstools on haiku and it keeps bailing out at the same place everytime
[05:17:08] <geist> kernel wasn't that different
[05:17:15] <geist> but yeah, that's probably the largest set of changes
[05:17:19] *** pyCube has joined #haiku
[05:17:20] <burfi> err, NT ran on Alpha back then
[05:17:28] <geist> burfi: wasn't 64bit
[05:17:29] <__toddb__> heya PYCUBE
[05:17:32] <umccullough_work> ddew|bofh, I'd have to test it - been a few days
[05:17:37] <geist> burfi: it ran in a 32bit subset mode
[05:17:42] <ozy`> __toddb__: you can have drastically different interfaces and system libraries running on the same exact kernel
[05:17:57] <geist> i was wondering the same thing myself a few years back when they were saying that MS was dealing with 64bit kernel for the first time when they were dealing with ia64
[05:18:03] <geist> turns out alpha was in 32bit mode
[05:18:09] *** pyCube has quit IRC
[05:18:11] <__toddb__> ozy on what? vista or 4.0?
[05:18:18] <geist> and all the other ports at the time were 32bit
[05:18:30] <burfi> odd
[05:18:59] <geist> it's generally pretty easy to run a risc machine in <max size mode
[05:19:12] <geist> PPC32/PPC64 is more of a policy decision than anything else
[05:19:32] <geist> if you generate code assuming the registers are 32bits wide, you can basically ignore the fact that the machine is 64bit wide
[05:19:41] <__toddb__> has the new firmware intel proposed seen much use yet?
[05:19:52] <geist> only tricky part is how you deal with carrys off the top bit
[05:20:02] <geist> PPC requires a bit in supervisor mode to say if carry is bit 32 or bit 64
[05:20:06] <AlienSoldier> i wonder what will be the next hardware gimminck, i think they will it the too many core to be efficient problem before long
[05:20:26] <umccullough_work> specialized cores maybe?
[05:20:30] <umccullough_work> i.e. cell
[05:20:40] <mmadia> wasn't amd considering  specialized cores?
[05:20:49] <__toddb__> already doing specialized cores, look at new nvidia cards and their gpu api
[05:21:01] <AlienSoldier> i hope for 3 state logic and i fear 96 bit
[05:21:04] <umccullough_work> i meant on the same die as the cpu
[05:21:09] <burfi> moving toward SoC, I think
[05:21:37] <burfi> AMD Fusion as first step
[05:21:48] <umccullough_work> yeah, was just gonna mention the AMD Fusion...
[05:21:51] <burfi> Mobile rules
[05:22:02] <geist> too bad they're getting their lunch eaten by intel
[05:22:07] <umccullough_work> heh
[05:22:10] * geist pets his athlon x2
[05:22:17] * umccullough_work owns a lot of amd stock that isn't worth as much now
[05:22:22] <__toddb__> I would love to see haiku avr32 port
[05:22:30] <geist> i'd love to see an avr32
[05:22:42] <DeadYak> AVR32 = ?
[05:22:51] <__toddb__> they are cheap, 89 bucks for network kit ngw100
[05:22:53] <geist> some new ARM clone that someone hacked
[05:23:01] <DeadYak> ah
[05:23:14] <geist> i read the arch manual, they basically cloned all the itneresting bits from ARM and got rid of the bits that make ARM annoying
[05:23:21] <__toddb__> not even similar to arm, system on a chip, has usb, video, audio, ethernet, all on cpu
[05:23:36] <geist> __toddb__: you mean like 95% of the ARM Socs out there?
[05:23:44] <__toddb__> oh?
[05:23:58] <geist> ARM, Ltd sells their cores to other vendors
[05:24:03] <geist> other vendors build socs out of it
[05:24:07] <geist> that's why ARMs are absolutely everywhere
[05:24:10] <__toddb__> yeah, atmel sells arm processors
[05:24:19] <geist> avr32 is an attempt to grab some of that market
[05:24:21] <__toddb__> think theirs is one of most popular, we use blackfins at work
[05:24:35] * umccullough_work owns some atml stock too
[05:24:42] <umccullough_work> but again...worth less than i paid :(
[05:24:43] <geist> there's something like 10x as many arms shipped as any other cpu on the world
[05:25:19] <ozy`> <__toddb__> ozy on what? vista or 4.0? <== I wasn't referring to a specific example, although I did have one in mind :p
[05:25:23] <umccullough_work> atml's been having a rough time lately
[05:25:48] <__toddb__> I like the avr32, the integrated ac97 audio, video, usb, ethernet, serial means dream of commodore like pc in keyboard be totally doable as pet project
[05:26:12] <geist> __toddb__: sure, but it's not a new idea at all. lots of vendors have been making the same thing for years and years
[05:26:14] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku
[05:26:26] <geist> this just happens to use the avr32 instruction set
[05:26:39] <__toddb__> yeah, like the f21 forth chip that never saw market..
[05:26:45] <MichaelHenry> Under Zeta how do you unhide the /boot/beos directory
[05:26:46] <ozy`> __toddb__: I meant that in general the same kernel can power two operating systems which are otherwise completely different
[05:26:53] <DeadYak> "unhide"?
[05:26:54] <__toddb__> they are trying again with seaforth
[05:27:00] <MichaelHenry> yeah
[05:27:07] <DeadYak> unhide how?
[05:27:07] <MichaelHenry> it is hidden in tracker
[05:27:09] <geist> __toddb__: sure, but there are zillions of reall shipping systems like that
[05:27:14] <DeadYak> MichaelHenry: see: /boot/zeta
[05:27:28] <__toddb__> I havent seen many system on chip type products
[05:27:32] <geist> so the forth thing is a bad example
[05:27:42] <MichaelHenry> so zeta doesn't have a /boot/beos directory
[05:27:47] <Al2O3_> anyone writing plugins for firefox, or webkit browser?
[05:27:50] <DeadYak> it does, it's just renamed in Tracker
[05:27:51] <umccullough_work> probably a symlink if it does
[05:27:56] <geist> __toddb__: really? geez. look at samsung, ti, ST, NXP, SHARP, RENESAS, qualcomm, nokia, broadcomm, nvidia
[05:28:07] <MichaelHenry> ok hang on
[05:28:08] <geist> oh, intell, marvell
[05:28:13] <geist> freescale
[05:28:20] <geist> atmel
[05:28:21] <__toddb__> with free dev kits and linux with full drivers?
[05:28:25] <geist> yeah
[05:28:29] <__toddb__> err dev environments not kits
[05:28:31] <geist> well, no free
[05:28:38] <geist> nothing is free man
[05:28:52] <geist> but i have 5 SOC dev boards here in the room with me
[05:28:53] <__toddb__> most I looked at are expensive, avr32 environment is first one I saw that was free
[05:28:53] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: see msgs
[05:28:56] <geist> 3 of which are on the table
[05:29:08] <geist> all of which have ethernet, video, serial, audio, etc
[05:29:24] <__toddb__> I seen the new ones from TI davinci, looks interesting
[05:29:36] <geist> yeah, TI is big in that space
[05:29:44] <geist> one of the larger makers of em
[05:29:56] <__toddb__> they are really strong in the dsp market
[05:30:02] <MindChild> Anyone have an aging Itanium machine they are willing to let go of?
[05:30:11] <geist> MindChild: where are you located?
[05:30:32] <umccullough_work> geist, you have an IA64?
[05:30:33] <MindChild> Florida, USA
[05:30:43] <geist> umccullough_work: yes, and i'm willing to let go of
[05:30:49] <geist> trouble is it weighs 100lbs
[05:30:52] <umccullough_work> willing to save it for me? ;)
[05:30:54] <umccullough_work> damn
[05:30:57] <geist> originally cost me $300 or so to ship
[05:31:02] <__toddb__> geez, 2.5 hours and still not even half done installing 2008 sdk
[05:31:08] <geist> got snookered on ebay. super cheap, but then got nailed by shipping
[05:31:15] <MindChild> geist: I know. Are you willing to part with it/ship it?
[05:31:15] <geist> it's a HP2000 workstation
[05:31:28] <geist> if you're willing to pay $300 or so for shipping
[05:31:32] <MindChild> I have a contract where I need one as a dev machine
[05:31:33] <MindChild> sure
[05:31:38] <MichaelHenry> ok, downloaded the haiku trunk, followed the directions on the darkwyrms howto and when i type configure it says "GCC version 2.956.3-haiku-080320 is required".
[05:31:38] <umccullough_work> well, if MindChild wants to pay shipping, i won't push it :)
[05:31:49] <geist> also wont be abel to get to it for a few weeks
[05:31:56] <MindChild> that is fine
[05:31:59] <MindChild> thanks man
[05:31:59] <umccullough_work> bottom of the pile?
[05:32:00] <geist> it's in storage in vacaville
[05:32:03] <umccullough_work> ah
[05:32:06] <geist> and i dont know how i'll actually move it
[05:32:15] <umccullough_work> wow, i'm not far from vacaville ;)
[05:32:21] <MindChild> Just keep me updated. I really appreciate it
[05:32:29] <umccullough_work> geist, your suby wont' haul it?
[05:32:34] <Al2O3_> is there an IB like tool yet for Haiku?  Does any of the older (not always working well I guess) GUI layout and stub generator tools work, recommendations?
[05:32:35] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: making evil overnight ninja plans? :P
[05:32:40] <geist> MindChild: how badly do you want it? maybe see if you can find a better case
[05:32:41] <Al2O3_> an IDE coming out for Haiku?
[05:32:49] <geist> otherwise just giving it to umccullough_work would be a lot easier
[05:32:57] *** CIA-45 has quit IRC
[05:33:02] <__toddb__> thought there already was IDE for haiku
[05:33:12] <DeadYak> Al2O3_: none that are actually done by the haiku project itself
[05:33:19] <MindChild> geist: I really need one. That is really it
[05:33:20] <umccullough_work> DeadYak, an IA64 was on my "shopping list" ;)
[05:33:27] <DeadYak> ah
[05:33:29] <DeadYak> for collecting?
[05:33:29] <umccullough_work> but i don't need it really
[05:33:32] <umccullough_work> sorta
[05:33:41] <geist> yeah i had grand plans to port newos to it
[05:33:44] <MichaelHenry> DeadYak, did you see my post
[05:33:45] <geist> but bleh
[05:33:45] <umccullough_work> i could always pick one up in the future sometime
[05:33:52] <MindChild> I need it for a work
[05:33:55] <geist> I hacked debian on it and it was pretty ho hum
[05:33:57] <DeadYak> MichaelHenry: don't know about cross building on zeta sorry
[05:34:02] <umccullough_work> ship it to MindChild
[05:34:05] <geist> it's a very first gen, in fact it's an A rev cpu, technically unreleased
[05:34:10] <MindChild> perfect
[05:34:13] <__toddb__> why need IA64 over any other cpu?
[05:34:18] <Al2O3_> dead, is there a milestone for going native on the video instead of vesa emulation?
[05:34:28] <DeadYak> Al2O3_: uh, supported video driver?
[05:34:31] <MichaelHenry> do you know anybody that has sucessfully built haiku on Zeta
[05:34:36] <DeadYak> Al2O3_: it does native video just fine if you have a chipset that works
[05:34:39] <geist> i forget what else it had. I think it had a GB of ram and a scsi disk or so
[05:34:46] <MindChild> It is the platform my contractor is using. Their machines are all in use, so I can't use them for development
[05:34:51] <Al2O3_> Dead, I have a Intel iMac 20"
[05:34:51] <geist> only one cpu, unforunately. 733Mhz, first gen itanium
[05:34:59] <Al2O3_> native chipset is Nvidia or something like that.
[05:35:00] <umccullough_work> oh lord
[05:35:00] <MindChild> that is fine
[05:35:03] <DeadYak> Al2O3_: no idea about iMacs, those are a weird beast anyways since they use EFI
[05:35:08] <DeadYak> Al2O3_: good luck running that native anytime soon
[05:35:12] <__toddb__> can't you just cross compile?
[05:35:31] <umccullough_work> Al2O3_, isn't the native chip on those intel?
[05:35:32] <Al2O3_> was just hoping, I know eventually I'll get 'genuine' intel hardware, something un-mac
[05:35:36] <MindChild> __toddb__: I can't afford to screw up and bring down one of their machines testing
[05:35:42] <Al2O3_> umccullough_work: on the mini it is 950
[05:35:47] <geist> DeadYak: it's not that funny if you have the BIOS mode on your mac
[05:35:48] <Al2O3_> I'm looking for chipset now in info.
[05:35:59] <DeadYak> geist: I wasn't sure exactly how boot camp did that
[05:36:08] <geist> though depending on which particular video chipset apple was shipping at the time it could be more or less supported
[05:36:13] <DeadYak> geist: does it completely look like a normal BIOS to the OS then, or does it have to do some weird preboot first?
[05:36:19] <geist> i think the biggest problem for a while with booting on a mac is need native AHCI support
[05:36:24] <geist> but i think haiku has that now
[05:36:27] <DeadYak> geist: aren't Apple mostly using the integrated Intel GMA parts on iMacs?
[05:36:36] <umccullough_work> that was my impression
[05:36:39] <geist> DeadYak: they've changed it a lot. no idea
[05:36:47] <DeadYak> GMA 950 / GMA X3100 I thougt
[05:36:47] <geist> i think different models bounced around
[05:37:00] <geist> but anyway, doesn't haiku have half decent intel support?
[05:37:05] <umccullough_work> partial
[05:37:06] <Al2O3_> 950 is the video on the mins
[05:37:07] <geist> axel is always hacking on the driver
[05:37:08] <DeadYak> there's the intel extreme driver yeah
[05:37:09] <Al2O3_> minis
[05:37:12] <umccullough_work> not sure it's half-decent yet ;)
[05:37:15] <DeadYak> but I dunno what all chipsets that handles atm
[05:37:20] <DeadYak> he only has a handful to test with
[05:37:24] <geist> yeah, know about that. i have ubuntu on my mini here and it's definitely the 950
[05:37:28] <umccullough_work> no overlay for my i865
[05:37:34] <geist> and there's a 950 on my macbook (which is why it sucks nuts for 3d)
[05:37:41] <geist> fecking emulated vertex shaders
[05:37:47] <umccullough_work> and the no matter what i set the refresh rate to, it doesn't listen
[05:37:51] <Al2O3_> who would be a good person to donate a mini (for say 2-3 months use) to get it to run on apple hardware?
[05:37:55] <umccullough_work> and it won't steal any more ram than what I specify in the BIOS
[05:37:57] <Al2O3_> would axel be the guy?
[05:38:14] <geist> Al2O3_: have you tried to see if it works now?
[05:38:15] <umccullough_work> he's in Germany...
[05:38:30] <umccullough_work> Al2O3_, there's a bounty for mac support...
[05:38:31] <Al2O3_> geist, nope...  woudl'nt mind.
[05:38:59] <geist> umccullough_work: O RLY?
[05:39:05] <umccullough_work> macbook support...yes
[05:39:11] <umccullough_work> http://www.haikuware.com/bounties/macbook-bounty
[05:39:18] <Al2O3_> tx
[05:39:21] <umccullough_work> geist, someone has already opted for it...
[05:39:37] <umccullough_work> listed here: http://www.haikuware.com/bounties/
[05:39:44] <umccullough_work> $750
[05:39:49] <geist> what's the bounty? satisfaction of a job well done?
[05:39:55] <geist> oh $750, that's decent
[05:40:01] <__toddb__> what c library does haiku use?
[05:40:07] <umccullough_work> glibc
[05:40:13] <DeadYak> __toddb__: mix of glibc and a few other things
[05:40:24] <Al2O3_> http://pastie.caboo.se/173921
[05:40:26] <DeadYak> parts of it are glibc, part BSD afaik
[05:40:29] <__toddb__> so mono could conceivably be ported? forgoing the gui stuff..
[05:40:29] <Al2O3_> that is the configuration of my iMac 20
[05:40:34] <Al2O3_> video wise.
[05:40:47] <Al2O3_> internal LCD, with 19" dell external, and the ATI HD 2400 video
[05:40:48] <umccullough_work> radeon HD
[05:40:59] <geist> DeadYak: never gonna give you up
[05:41:01] <umccullough_work> euan might consider working on the radeon HD driver
[05:41:26] <DeadYak> geist: stop that :)
[05:41:35] <umccullough_work> he was pretty excited about the recent release from AMD
[05:41:39] <geist> DeadYak: never gonna make you cry
[05:41:40] <DeadYak> umccullough_work: he's planning on getting back to the Radeon driver as soon as he can figure out what's wrong with AHCI on his box
[05:41:46] <umccullough_work> ah
[05:41:51] <umccullough_work> oh right
[05:41:55] <umccullough_work> he had that funky boot issue
[05:42:00] <DeadYak> yup,.
[05:42:03] <geist> AHCI is made of fail
[05:42:04] <Al2O3_> who's running native on 'regular' supported hardware, like Intel mobos and cpus?
[05:42:05] <umccullough_work> i still don't think that's a driver problem
[05:42:08] <DeadYak> AHCI comes up saying he has 19 controller ports
[05:42:11] <umccullough_work> oh shit
[05:42:14] <Al2O3_> or are most here running VMWare
[05:42:19] <geist> actually no. AHCI is made of win actually
[05:42:22] <Al2O3_> or Qume
[05:42:30] <umccullough_work> Al2O3_, i run on a Dell GX270 and a Dell Inspiron 1100
[05:42:45] <AnEvilYak> Athlon64 / NForce 4/ X800 on this box
[05:42:50] <geist> if you're not doing hardware specific work, vmware is definitely the easiest and fastest way to cycle builds
[05:42:57] <geist> so depending on what you're doing, yeah
[05:43:13] <Al2O3_> geist, I want speed of install for testing each release, and also speed of execution.
[05:43:14] <umccullough_work> Al2O3_, my gx270 is almost perfectly supported
[05:43:21] <geist> haivng vmware back in the Be days would have been awesome
[05:43:22] <umccullough_work> sound, network, video out fo the box :)
[05:43:31] <AnEvilYak> this thing here is completely supported apart from the OHCI controller
[05:43:35] <umccullough_work> geist, you had bochs!
[05:43:42] <geist> riiiight
[05:43:43] <__toddb__> how fast does it run on vmware?
[05:43:51] <umccullough_work> __toddb__, fast enough for sure
[05:43:53] <Al2O3_> not very fast here I'm afriad.
[05:43:53] <AnEvilYak> and on that note, brb, need to update for Ingo's fix it seems
[05:43:59] *** AnEvilYak has quit IRC
[05:44:00] <umccullough_work> i find it's plenty usable
[05:44:08] <geist> yeah, depend son what you're doing with it
[05:44:17] <Al2O3_> I have 4 gigs of RAM, core 2 duo 2.0 ghz, and not doing much else, and VMWare with Haiku is pretty pokey, like a PPC 200 almost from days gone past.
[05:44:22] <umccullough_work> trying to run something graphics intensive will suck on vmware
[05:44:32] <Al2O3_> have 768 megs of ram allocated for the VM
[05:44:33] <DeadYak> it's quite zippy on that box for me :)
[05:44:40] <geist> i remember beos ran terribly in vmware, but that was because it had no native driver so it had to just keep redrawing the framebuffer, which caused vmware to spend most of it's time chasing the framebuffer
[05:44:42] <DeadYak> apart from disk stuff
[05:45:01] <Al2O3_> I'm thinking that is likely what i sgoing on here too.
[05:45:04] <__toddb__> so video doesn't scream like it used to on crappy hardware?
[05:45:10] <umccullough_work> __toddb__, this nick isn't registered :P
[05:45:15] <Al2O3_> it works, and it is usable, but the time to test needs to be shorter.
[05:45:30] <Al2O3_> launch, redraw, that kinda of stuff for my automated GUI testing needs to be as fast as possible.
[05:45:34] <umccullough_work> geist, i have a vmware image with R5 PE Max on it and the vmware svga driver
[05:45:35] <geist> yeah, not having an accellerated vmware video driver is the fastest way to really drag the system down
[05:45:38] <umccullough_work> it's quite speedy
[05:45:39] <Al2O3_> the number of tests will grow to 1000s in short order.
[05:45:46] <geist> umccullough_work: yeah, i think that came later
[05:45:55] <Al2O3_> geist, yep, my guess is that is what is going on here.
[05:45:56] <umccullough_work> like within the last couple yeards
[05:45:57] <umccullough_work> years
[05:45:58] <geist> vmware really came out at the tail end of R5
[05:46:29] <umccullough_work> __toddb__, i can't send messages to people privately because this nick isn't registered :( sorry
[05:46:41] <umccullough_work> unless you allow to accept unregistered nicks for PM
[05:46:47] <Al2O3_> ok, so are most people just using a simple text editor, and make to build their projects?
[05:46:56] <umccullough_work> Pe
[05:47:03] <DeadYak> Al2O3_: that tends to be my preference for development, albeit not 'simple'
[05:47:04] <DeadYak> I hate IDEs
[05:47:04] <Al2O3_> I'm just wondering how far back in time I have to mentally to do dev work here.
[05:47:15] <Al2O3_> Dead, I am used to them, Eclipse and Xcode
[05:47:22] <Al2O3_> so for me, stepping back to it will be a mental shift.
[05:47:24] <umccullough_work> Al2O3_, syntax highlighting enough?
[05:47:33] <DeadYak> well, I avoid them like the plague, syntax highlighting's plenty for me
[05:47:40] <Al2O3_> um, yes, that is helpful, but I'm not a emacs guy.
[05:47:41] <__toddb__> I used to hate ides, now can't live without it.. the refactoring tools are amazing..
[05:47:48] <Al2O3_> haven't touched lisp/scheme in years.
[05:48:01] <DeadYak> GUI builders that generate crap code and get in my way more than they help whilst eating 1+GB of RAM don't do it for me
[05:48:01] <Al2O3_> yes, the organizational tools in xcode are amazing.
[05:48:04] *** absabs has quit IRC
[05:48:04] <umccullough_work> Al2O3_, Pe works well in Haiku with some issues
[05:48:04] <__toddb__> and being able to change live code while its running is invaluable
[05:48:09] <DeadYak> the refactoring stuff is nice, but that's about it for me really
[05:48:12] <Al2O3_> I have Eddie downloaded.
[05:48:23] <Al2O3_> Was eddie the replacement for Pe
[05:48:24] <DeadYak> at work I tend to use Kate
[05:48:26] <Al2O3_> or is there a new Pe out.
[05:48:39] <umccullough_work> there is an optional Pe package for Haiku
[05:48:39] <__toddb__> its cool, hit breakpoint, change code, back up breakpoint, and rerun, without recompiling
[05:48:42] <umccullough_work> i don't have the link
[05:48:48] <DeadYak> __toddb__: I know, I've used Eclipse
[05:48:57] <DeadYak> doesn't change the fact that it's a slowass pig on my Linux box :)
[05:49:11] <umccullough_work> edit-and-continue - famous feature from VB :)
[05:49:12] <geist> hah, the luposian thing is awesome
[05:49:25] <geist> so basically he's bitching that if he hard resets the system that he loses his data
[05:49:29] <geist> well, yeah.
[05:49:48] <geist> BFS does not, nor has ever, solved that problem
[05:49:56] <geist> it does not journal data
[05:49:59] <umccullough_work> well, he claims he can do it in R5 ;)
[05:50:00] <umccullough_work> so...
[05:50:03] <geist> he lies
[05:50:10] <geist> well, not really
[05:50:13] <geist> he has just been lucky
[05:50:17] <umccullough_work> i think he's saying that if he waits for the disk light to finish, then do it - all is fine
[05:50:25] <geist> which may be true, most of the time
[05:50:28] <umccullough_work> but apparnetly Haiku doesn't write back to the disk when he thinks it should
[05:50:31] <geist> right
[05:50:35] <geist> which is also entirely likely
[05:50:49] <umccullough_work> so, rant on!
[05:50:54] <geist> yeah
[05:51:14] <geist> the variable that need sto be tweaked there is the writeback rate
[05:51:23] <geist> it's probalby pretty slow now, and should be kicked up. that's it
[05:51:25] <umccullough_work> and size apparently
[05:51:36] <geist> along with the zillion other things that haven't been done yet
[05:51:36] <umccullough_work> according to stippi he thinks it does 32kb every 3secs
[05:51:39] <umccullough_work> but that seems odd
[05:51:40] <geist> there is't even swap
[05:51:43] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC
[05:52:07] <umccullough_work> i lay down the law - use sync
[05:52:14] <geist> trouble is with luposian he doesn't accept 'yeah, that has to be done' as an answer
[05:52:15] <umccullough_work> "do my bidding bitch!"
[05:52:28] <geist> as far as I can tell he thinks the's the only person in the world, and everything should be dropped for him
[05:52:47] <umccullough_work> well, he very explicitly stated that because it LOOKS like it is working, that it should be
[05:52:59] <umccullough_work> false advertising i guess
[05:53:12] <geist> how does it 'look' like it's working?
[05:53:28] <DeadYak> the disk light stopped blinking
[05:53:31] <DeadYak> seriously
[05:53:52] <Al2O3_> is the optional Pe build for Haiku linked from the Haiku site?
[05:53:55] <umccullough_work> "One that I think is just as critical, but
[05:53:55] <umccullough_work> even MORE so, because the more Haiku appears to be able do (and the
[05:53:55] <umccullough_work> more robust it appears), the more people will EXPECT it to do!
[05:53:56] <umccullough_work> "
[05:54:05] *** CIA-47 has joined #haiku
[05:54:08] <geist> now, if he said 'i typed sync, the disk like ran for a bunch, then stopped, then if i pull the plug it completely goes apeshit' then i'd have a little more issue
[05:54:13] <umccullough_work> "And if
[05:54:14] <umccullough_work> it says files you've copied or unpacked or created are on the disk and
[05:54:14] <umccullough_work> your power goes "blip!" and all your files are gone... don't you think
[05:54:14] <umccullough_work> that's gonna make just a few people unhappy?
[05:54:14] <umccullough_work> "
[05:54:29] <umccullough_work> he doesn't seem to understand the concept of "not finished"
[05:54:32] <geist> the answer is "yes, thank you for the input luposian'
[05:54:59] <geist> but of course since he rants he gets negative responses, which just reinforces his rants, etc
[05:55:12] <umccullough_work> oh, he even challenges:
[05:55:13] <umccullough_work> "Try to use ANY OS without
[05:55:13] <umccullough_work> any files being copied or unpacked or created.
[05:55:14] <umccullough_work> "
[05:55:17] <geist> and i guess he interprets negative responses as some sort of argument against what he's argument
[05:55:24] * umccullough_work starts up his linksys router
[05:55:29] <geist> which isn't really the case. folks are arguing with him because he's a dick
[05:56:03] <umccullough_work> well, i tried to be constructive in my reply
[05:56:06] <geist> in this case it's doubly shitty because he hijacked an otherwise pleasant thread
[05:56:14] <umccullough_work> yeah fucktarded
[05:56:17] <geist> umccullough_work: yep, he's probably just insane
[05:56:25] <geist> or socialpathic, etc
[05:56:34] <geist> aspergers, autistic, whatever
[05:56:43] <umccullough_work> apparently he's born-again christian
[05:56:54] <ozy`> uh-oh
[05:56:58] <geist> ah, that leans more towards insane
[05:56:59] <umccullough_work> at least, that's what I gleaned from reading some of his online diarrhea
[05:57:04] <geist> or at least pretty unstable
[05:57:04] <Al2O3_> hey, that is exciting news about the BeBook and Newletters :)
[05:57:08] <Al2O3_> fun to read that 12 years later.
[05:57:11] <AlienSoldier> statisticly, beos world should have more than a few skizo and some might not take their mediacation
[05:57:23] <geist> AlienSoldier: yep. that's a sign that your project is maturing
[05:57:35] <geist> how many do you have on your mailing list?
[05:57:40] <ozy`> umccullough_work: slip in a few rapture-related "code words" and see how he responds
[05:57:43] <Al2O3_> geist, sure is...  be the way, are you the fella that does begeist?
[05:57:48] <geist> Al2O3_: nope
[05:57:52] <Al2O3_> ok
[05:57:55] <geist> completely unreleated
[05:58:00] <umccullough_work> ozy`, he nearly got on the topic of religion before - it's a bad deal - let's not
[05:58:07] <Al2O3_> np, just curious
[05:58:10] <ozy`> Al2O3_: haha I've seen like five people ask that in the week or two I've been lurking here
[05:58:27] <Al2O3_> yah, I even think I asked a week or so ago now that I think about it.
[05:58:36] <umccullough_work> lol
[05:58:42] <geist> Al2O3_: I did talk to you at the sunnyvale thing. I was the one that originally hacked on newos, work at Palm now, etc
[05:58:43] <ozy`> umccullough_work: it was not entirely a serious suggestion :p but yeah
[05:58:44] <Al2O3_> lol, I spoke with Mr. BeGeist years ago, around when #3 or 4 was going off, and I wanted to send him a nice hello again.
[05:58:57] <Al2O3_> oh ya.
[05:59:03] <Al2O3_> thanks for the refresh
[05:59:04] <umccullough_work> Al2O3_, he was wearing the 1-up shirt  IIRC
[05:59:11] <geist> i just hang out here, I really dont have the time to work on haiku that much
[05:59:14] <Al2O3_> it was nice to talk to you.
[05:59:18] <DeadYak> Al2O3_: Begeistert = Charlie Clark
[05:59:19] <Al2O3_> talk about coincidental timing.
[05:59:23] <Al2O3_> charlie, that is right.
[05:59:24] <Al2O3_> thanks.
[05:59:48] <umccullough_work> i should probably go home
[05:59:58] <Al2O3_> geist, good to reconnect.
[06:00:00] <umccullough_work> kids are probably in bed already :(
[06:00:11] <geist> umccullough_work: never gonna give you up
[06:00:12] <Al2O3_> well, you saw then was I'm up to.
[06:00:12] <umccullough_work> stupid XML file is pissing me off
[06:00:23] <Al2O3_> s/was/what
[06:01:21] <umccullough_work> later
[06:01:24] *** umccullough_work has quit IRC
[06:02:29] <DeadYak> night guys
[06:03:01] <Al2O3_> night dead
[06:09:54] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[06:11:04] *** __toddb__ has quit IRC
[06:12:58] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku
[06:21:13] *** DeadYak has quit IRC
[06:25:12] *** shackan has quit IRC
[06:34:10] <MichaelHenry> dang dead left
[06:34:35] <MichaelHenry> i figured out how to build haiku on zeta 1.5
[06:34:42] *** W0rmDrink has quit IRC
[06:35:55] <MichaelHenry> One last question, is the drivesetup in Haiku compatible with Zeta/Beos
[06:44:37] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC
[06:47:50] *** burfi has left #haiku
[06:47:51] *** Kokito has joined #haiku
[06:47:59] <Kokito> howdy
[06:48:45] <Al2O3_> where does one find the 'dev tools' to install on the Haiku?
[06:48:57] <Al2O3_> I see no gcc, $ gcc -> command not found
[06:56:57] <Kokito> man, too many emails to keep up with...
[07:05:14] *** pyCube has joined #haiku
[07:05:27] *** Kokito has quit IRC
[07:12:57] *** Kokito has joined #haiku
[07:13:29] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC
[07:22:02] <umccullough> Al2O3_, you gotta install them - are you building your own images?
[07:23:04] *** The_Ringmaster has left #haiku
[07:23:45] <Al2O3_> um, I have the images from the site, daily builds.
[07:23:49] <Al2O3_> so no I am not doing builds.
[07:23:54] <Al2O3_> I dont have time or inclination to do builds.
[07:24:46] <umccullough> then you're gonna have to tough time getting the good stuff :)
[07:25:09] <umccullough> hang on, i'll give you links - but you'll have to figure out how to unzip it and set it up manually i guess
[07:27:23] *** umccullough_x has joined #haiku
[07:27:37] <umccullough_x> Al2O3_,  http://haiku-files.org/files/optional-packages/
[07:28:30] <umccullough> the haiku build system can install those packages automatically if you tell it to prior to build
[07:28:48] <umccullough> which includes creating symlinks and stuff... so - you'll be sorta on your own doing that yourself
[07:28:58] <Al2O3_> oh
[07:29:01] <Al2O3_> that sounds funky.
[07:29:12] <umccullough> well, there's no package management or anything
[07:29:17] <Al2O3_> right...
[07:29:18] <umccullough> unzip and go
[07:29:29] <umccullough> if you look in the OptionalPackages jam rule - you can see all the logic
[07:29:38] <Al2O3_> ok
[07:29:41] *** Anxiety|Home has quit IRC
[07:29:42] <Al2O3_> haven't done jam in a while.
[07:29:51] <umccullough> you can view it in the repo browser
[07:30:09] <umccullough> http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/haiku/haiku/trunk/build/jam/OptionalPackages?view=markup
[07:30:29] <umccullough> oh right - you probably won't have any headers either :P
[07:30:49] <umccullough> or are they in /boot/develop/headers already?
[07:30:58] *** CodeAnxiety has joined #haiku
[07:31:53] <umccullough> honestly, it would be easier to just build an image and specify the optional packages
[07:35:21] <umccullough> ok, WTF is up with luposian's last email?
[07:35:23] <umccullough> "Just kidding!
[07:35:24] <umccullough> Happy April Fools!
[07:35:24] <umccullough> Latre!
[07:35:24] <umccullough> Luposian
[07:35:25] <umccullough> "
[07:35:30] <umccullough> seriously?
[07:35:40] <geist> wtf
[07:35:45] <umccullough> did I read it right?
[07:36:05] <umccullough> ok, maybe that's just in response to his last paragraph
[07:36:25] <umccullough> but jeez, that guy can rant!
[07:37:18] <geist> he's god mad skillz
[07:37:24] <geist> got even
[07:37:25] *** MindChild has quit IRC
[07:37:34] <umccullough> i know who i'll hire if I want to annoy the fuck out of anyone via email someday
[07:37:35] <[Katisu]> no April Fools day here
[07:37:36] *** MindChild has joined #haiku
[07:38:29] <Luposian> i pwn this nick now
[07:38:34] <[Katisu]> .t EDT
[07:38:35] <BuildFactory> Wed, 02 Apr 2008 01:38:16 EDT
[07:38:47] * geist 's head asplode
[07:42:43] <[Katisu]> well, at least Luposian admits to being a rabid banshee
[07:42:50] <umccullough> did he say that?
[07:43:03] <umccullough> damn, when i read his emails, it just blurs now and I can't actually comprehend anything
[07:43:27] <[Katisu]> "even with my ranting and
[07:43:27] <[Katisu]> complaining and screaming like a rabid banshee...
[07:43:36] <[Katisu]> "
[07:43:52] <umccullough> phew, glad we got that out of the way then...
[07:46:46] <Kokito> can you guys access haiku-files.org?
[07:46:58] <umccullough> i just did a few minutes ago - but it was slow
[07:47:05] <umccullough> http://haiku-files.org/files/optional-packages/
[07:47:07] <umccullough> that works for me
[07:47:15] *** Schmedly3D has quit IRC
[07:47:24] <umccullough> working fine here Kokito
[07:47:37] <Kokito> trying to FTP. but it times out most of the time... hmmm...
[07:47:44] <pyCube> heh.. http://www.aintitcool.com/node/36213
[07:48:18] <[Katisu]> Is that the cross compiler that is in there?
[07:48:41] <umccullough> [Katisu], those are haiku packages, not R5
[07:49:05] <[Katisu]> ok, just checking
[07:50:00] *** umccullough_x has left #haiku
[07:56:18] <Kokito> FTP still not working. oh well, the probably means that it is not meant to happen today :)
[07:56:29] <umccullough> trac is slow as shit
[07:57:31] <Kokito> umccullough, see this thread: http://www.freelists.org/archives/haiku-web/03-2008/msg00169.html
[07:57:52] <umccullough> i saw it the other day
[07:58:15] <umccullough> i can't be the only one seeing it...
[07:58:38] <Kokito> it's slow, but not as bad as it was the other day
[07:58:49] <Al2O3_> umccullough: most of this stuff (10 packages) unpacks into ./config/
[07:58:58] <Al2O3_> gcc has its own dir, and jam is a seperate file.
[07:59:09] <Al2O3_> do I need to unpack these into a particular directory ?
[07:59:11] <umccullough> Al2O3_, yeah, but i think the headers have to come from the source repo at build time
[07:59:18] <umccullough> you're sorta on your own :P
[07:59:23] <Al2O3_> oh crap
[07:59:28] <Al2O3_> not a good thing.
[07:59:40] <Al2O3_> this is a bit more than I wanted to bite into, but still have dev tools.
[07:59:43] <umccullough> basically, there's no pre-packaged development version of Haiku for download
[07:59:44] <Al2O3_> oh well.
[07:59:51] <umccullough> yet
[07:59:52] <Al2O3_> hopefully there will be soon
[07:59:57] <Al2O3_> ETA?
[08:00:12] <Al2O3_> 1-2 months, weeks, years :)
[08:00:15] <Al2O3_> low priority?
[08:00:29] <Kokito> the million dollar question :P
[08:00:33] <Al2O3_> when things get to where apps can run and be developed, I guess it will be come a priority.
[08:00:53] <Al2O3_> there is a nature progression.
[08:01:00] <umccullough> i ported and compiled an app using haiku just the other day
[08:01:12] <Al2O3_> neat, didn't mean to imply it can't happen.
[08:01:13] <umccullough> using nothing but haiku i should say ;)
[08:01:27] <Al2O3_> but most developers like me are kinda more into app dev, not environ configuration and dev.
[08:01:28] <Al2O3_> :)
[08:01:31] <umccullough> even used firefox for emailing, browsing various sites at the same time
[08:01:49] <Al2O3_> any tutorials on getting it built with the deve tool?
[08:01:58] <umccullough> it's amazingly easy
[08:02:00] <Al2O3_> I guess I can turn this PIII 450 over to it.
[08:02:02] <Al2O3_> ok,
[08:02:05] <umccullough> oh...
[08:02:08] <Al2O3_> will Haiku run on PIII hardware.
[08:02:11] <Al2O3_> well.
[08:02:12] <Al2O3_> speedy
[08:02:12] <umccullough> a piii 450 will take ages to compile :/
[08:02:17] <Al2O3_> oh, booo
[08:02:20] <Al2O3_> ages as in days
[08:02:28] <umccullough> if you use linux, probably a few hours
[08:02:37] <umccullough> if you use beos...maybe longer ;)
[08:02:38] <Al2O3_> and do I have to install Ubuntu and then use that to host the dev environment, build and hten install from the build?
[08:02:43] <Al2O3_> oh, ok
[08:02:46] <umccullough> that's the easy way, yeah
[08:02:56] <Al2O3_> right, someone said self hosting is close
[08:03:07] <umccullough> close - but still - you gotta have an image to start with
[08:03:08] <Al2O3_> meaning install basic Hiaku, and then DL the source for Haiku and build it with the other tools.
[08:03:11] <Al2O3_> right
[08:03:21] <umccullough> means installing development-enabled haiku first though
[08:03:23] <Al2O3_> kinda like a 'boot' image with basic tools.
[08:03:27] <Al2O3_> ok
[08:03:30] <Al2O3_> hand build.
[08:03:32] <Al2O3_> no thanks.
[08:03:37] <Al2O3_> want to do it easy and simple.
[08:03:38] <umccullough> it's gotta have all the dev tools
[08:03:49] <Al2O3_> yah, chicken egg
[08:04:09] <Al2O3_> ok, so there is a tutorial online for full optional dev tool build with beos and/or linux, ubuntu?
[08:04:15] <Al2O3_> <-- loking now.
[08:04:20] <umccullough> ubuntu
[08:04:21] <umccullough> hang on
[08:04:33] <umccullough> (i recommend something lighter though - like xubuntu)
[08:04:50] <Al2O3_> I have beos R5 on the P450 already come to think fo it.
[08:04:53] <Al2O3_> that is harder?
[08:05:00] <umccullough> you start here: http://www.haiku-os.org/documents/dev/building_haiku_on_ubuntu_linux_step_by_step
[08:05:07] <umccullough> yeah, R5 doesn't work so well
[08:05:14] <Al2O3_> ok...
[08:05:28] <Al2O3_> I have 5.03 bone
[08:05:31] <Al2O3_> but that likely doens't matter, it has old Gcc on it I think.
[08:05:43] <umccullough> yeah, the R5 GCC won't work any more for compiling haiku anyway
[08:05:50] <umccullough> you'll have to use the cross-compiler now
[08:05:56] <Al2O3_> no thanks.
[08:06:09] <Al2O3_> I'll just install linux on it.
[08:06:10] <umccullough> so, once you get the first tutorial down above, then you move onto:
[08:06:11] <umccullough> once
[08:06:12] <umccullough> oops
[08:06:13] <geist> well, that's technically no different than using the cross-compiler on linux either
[08:06:16] <umccullough> http://www.haiku-os.org/documents/dev/installing_haiku_to_a_partition_from_linux
[08:06:46] <umccullough> geist, except for the lack of speed, and the shitty dependencies if you try to build it yourself ;)
[08:06:53] <geist> right
[08:06:55] <umccullough> fortunately mlotz has provided a pre-compiled version
[08:07:04] <umccullough> which I think is on the haiku-os.org site now
[08:07:31] <Al2O3_> ok, so those two HOWTOs should get me rolling.
[08:07:40] <Al2O3_> Time to clober the install and put Ubuntu on the hardware... :)
[08:07:42] <Al2O3_> bbiab
[08:07:47] <Al2O3_> 7.10?
[08:07:59] <umccullough> that's what i use
[08:08:00] <Al2O3_> 7.04
[08:08:12] <Al2O3_> ok, the tutorial shows 7.04, but I like 7.10 just cause I can
[08:08:13] <Al2O3_> :)
[08:08:14] <Kokito> now, that looks better nowÑ http://haiku-files.org/files/optional-packages/
[08:08:52] <Al2O3_> slash dott'ed ???
[08:09:06] <Kokito> eh?
[08:09:24] <Al2O3_> yes, now it shows up.
[08:09:30] <Al2O3_> it was slow to load.
[08:09:39] <Al2O3_> looks nicer, but honestly I like simple text based directy listings.
[08:09:47] <Kokito> yeah, I opened a ticket with the ISP
[08:09:50] <Al2O3_> I know you guys rock, are doing a great job of making it look 'aqua' and all.
[08:10:04] <Al2O3_> looks much better
[08:10:12] <Al2O3_> snazzy and all that.
[08:10:37] <umccullough> bbiab
[08:10:44] <Al2O3_> um, thanks
[08:10:53] <Kokito> going to sleep. good night folks
[08:10:56] *** Kokito has quit IRC
[08:10:57] <Al2O3_> I'll be on t his tonight and tomorrow and hhopefully get things done.
[08:10:59] *** Luposian has quit IRC
[08:11:01] <Al2O3_> sleep for me too
[08:11:02] <Al2O3_> zzzzzzz
[08:11:03] <Al2O3_> :)
[08:17:15] *** Anxiety|Home has joined #haiku
[08:22:04] *** DHowet1 has joined #haiku
[08:25:17] *** eton has joined #haiku
[08:25:40] *** CodeAnxiety has quit IRC
[08:34:14] <umccullough> hrm
[08:34:49] <umccullough> even something as simple as changing a screen resolution doesn't seem to write back to the disk without a sync :P
[08:35:26] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku
[08:36:11] <DHowet1> Hush, you might sound like Luposian ...
[08:36:12] <DHowet1> :P
[08:36:54] <umccullough> well, i sorta promised i'd test it :)
[08:37:06] <DHowet1> ahh ;)
[08:37:31] <umccullough> the assumption that 32kb every 3 seconds is written back seems wrong though
[08:38:16] <umccullough> anyhow, just observing - i certainly don't condone his communication style
[08:40:22] <DHowet1> yeah...
[08:41:28] *** aljen has quit IRC
[08:42:00] <geist> there is sort of a philosophical issue with how/when you cache
[08:42:26] <geist> also, since machines can cache so much more stuff now, just letting the cache writeback when it feels like it becomes more problematic
[08:42:41] <geist> a good example of the conservative strategy is OSX
[08:43:07] <geist> it specifically flushes files when they're closed, flushes the entire cache every few seconds, etc
[08:43:30] <geist> wont win any benchmarks (and it doesn't), but it more or less insures  the kind of thing luposian is asking for
[08:43:47] <geist> when you save the file in the text editor, it's pretty much on disk by the time the ui says it's done
[08:43:59] <geist> and that was a very deliberate decision on apple's part
[08:44:53] <geist> versus a very much more lazy strategy taken by linux (without any tweaks to the kernel) and NT
[08:45:10] <geist> very textbook os, optimized for speed, delay writes as much as possible, etc
[08:47:11] <pyCube> i like osx.. tooks awhile, but now i really like it
[08:47:16] <pyCube> hehe
[08:48:53] <NeonLicht> the more I see OS X, the more I like X :-)
[08:52:38] <ddew|bofh> hmm, general system error when building. ah well, atleast the box didn't lock up :)
[08:59:41] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC
[09:00:07] <umccullough> geist, yeah, i would expect some sanity involved in the writeback mechanism :)
[09:00:43] <umccullough> for a desktop OS anyway
[09:00:54] <geist> performance vs safety
[09:00:57] <umccullough> right
[09:01:17] <umccullough> so, i'll give Luposian a half-point for ... at least being right
[09:01:37] <umccullough> even if he is a bit premature on his complaining
[09:01:56] <ddew|bofh> several billion points deducted for his posting style
[09:02:00] <geist> yes, i think you guys went down the wrong path by trying to disprove that f12 + reset may cause data loss
[09:02:04] <geist> because he's correct
[09:02:17] <umccullough> oh, i just admitted publicly that he was correct ;)
[09:02:25] <umccullough> i can eat crow...
[09:02:31] <geist> there's a window, and the window is pretty wide right now
[09:02:36] <geist> so the answer is sync often
[09:02:50] <umccullough> geist, I waited like 5 minutes and it never saved my screen preferences change
[09:02:58] <umccullough> so, we're talking grand canyon
[09:03:05] <umccullough> if not infinite space
[09:03:14] <Al2O3_> um, installing now, will hit on it with the tutorials tomorrow, thanks, I'm sure I will have some questions (always do)
[09:03:18] <geist> right. the writeback daemon needs to be alot more aggressive. there are lots of backend vm stuff that needs to be done
[09:03:34] <geist> that is just one manifestation of the backend not being completed
[09:03:45] <umccullough> yay
[09:03:55] <geist> the fs cache is integrated in haiku, instead of a seperate little thing in beos, so fixing one involves fixing the other
[09:04:02] <geist> and that's easily the most complex part of the entire system
[09:04:13] <geist> as it is i'm not completely happy with what axel and friends did with it
[09:04:26] <umccullough> you should fork!
[09:04:26] <geist> but what i can ya do
[09:05:10] <umccullough> the sad thing is - most of that email thread took place while the european devs were already offline
[09:05:21] <umccullough> so that's what they'll wake up to here in a little bit
[09:07:00] <pyCube> honestly, i think i'd probably be more into a fork..something new but beos-like/inspired.. than i am  an r5 clone..
[09:08:01] <ozy`> we should make an OS that looks like the stuff you see in awful hollywood movies
[09:08:09] <pyCube> heh
[09:08:21] <pyCube> minimum foont size of 24pt
[09:08:24] <ozy`> with lots of awesome sound effects and flashy yet minimalist graphics
[09:08:29] <ozy`> haha
[09:08:29] <ddew|bofh> wow, i'm stuck in an interesting place. i ran sync while compiling and now sync is waiting for the compiler to finish and the compiler is waiting for the sync to finish
[09:08:34] <pyCube> and WAY easy to hack
[09:09:00] <ozy`> pyCube: and completion meters for every trivial task
[09:09:09] <ddew|bofh> it's like watching two insanely polite people entering a door. "no, you fitrst." "no, you go ahead" "i insist, you first" and so on ad nauseum
[09:09:14] <ozy`> (well, linux has those)
[09:09:25] <ozy`> ddew|bofh: ah, a livelock
[09:09:30] *** darbelo has joined #haiku
[09:09:42] <ozy`> (or a deadlock, depending on the specifics)
[09:10:33] <ddew|bofh> can kdl do a sync so i won't be left with an unbootable system if i pull the plug?
[09:12:15] <umccullough> ddew|bofh, i've run into some weird "locks" trying to sync at the wrong time :(
[09:12:39] <ddew|bofh> guess i got too paranoid
[09:12:47] *** Korli has joined #haiku
[09:12:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Korli
[09:13:41] <ddew|bofh> *phew* the system came back up :)
[09:13:50] <umccullough> ok..so that's lame - i've explained to Luposian how to use sync before... and now he's asking like he's never heard of such a thing
[09:13:57] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku
[09:14:35] <MichaelHenry> Anyone here?
[09:14:54] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku
[09:15:02] <umccullough> nobody here
[09:15:10] <umccullough> "Hmm... maybe write an application that "watches" to see if files are copied, created, or whatever and then asks you if you'd like to Sync them to disk."
[09:15:13] <umccullough> that's funny...
[09:15:17] <MichaelHenry> ok
[09:15:24] <ddew|bofh> luposian is like a retardede chimp
[09:15:38] <MichaelHenry> he might be my cousin
[09:16:07] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku
[09:16:42] <MichaelHenry> that was a joke
[09:16:55] <umccullough> i genuinely feel bad for all the europeans that are just popping online now and reading their email :(
[09:17:29] <ddew|bofh> it could be worse. atleast it's kinda funny in a perverse sort of way
[09:17:34] <umccullough> i can feel the dread from here
[09:17:37] <MichaelHenry> is there anything wrong with beshare tonite?
[09:17:47] <umccullough> i don't use beshare any more
[09:18:06] <MichaelHenry> ok
[09:18:28] <MichaelHenry> just coming up with a connection issue
[09:19:07] *** AlienSoldier has joined #haiku
[09:19:41] <AlienSoldier>  Should Jesse Ventura run for President?
[09:19:42] <AlienSoldier>  Yes 	87% 	12509
[09:19:43] <AlienSoldier>  No 	13% 	1906
[09:19:43] <AlienSoldier>  Total Votes: 14415
[09:20:27] <AlienSoldier> he make all the cnn analysis since the last 4 month look like snake oil seller
[09:21:44] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC
[09:21:57] *** [Katisu] has joined #haiku
[09:22:46] *** Korli has quit IRC
[09:29:27] *** Stargater has joined #haiku
[09:29:28] <Stargater> moin
[09:32:56] <geist> good morning. it's crazy luposian day!
[09:33:45] <umccullough> woohoo!
[09:33:53] <ddew|bofh> question: i makebootable supposed to be working on Haiku?
[09:34:02] <plfiorini> omg luposian.....
[09:34:22] <umccullough> ddew|bofh, it...should i would guess
[09:34:34] <umccullough> ddew|bofh, you building a raw image?
[09:35:00] <ddew|bofh> i'm trying to make a partition bootable from within haiku itself
[09:35:09] <umccullough> ew :)
[09:35:20] <umccullough> well, you should be able to use DriveSetup to format one
[09:35:27] <umccullough> which should make it bootable
[09:35:37] <umccullough> well, maybe not
[09:35:57] <ddew|bofh> i pulled over mkbfs from my zeta partition to make the fs
[09:36:06] <umccullough> oh you didn't need to do that :D
[09:36:13] * JonathanThompson enjoys the irony of Haiku becoming self-aware on April Fool's day
[09:36:14] <umccullough> i'm surprised that worked in fact
[09:36:24] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, yes, i rather enjoyed it myself
[09:36:42] <JonathanThompson> raver31?  Moron :D
[09:36:47] <umccullough> yes
[09:36:51] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i had a really hard time believing in it
[09:38:07] <JonathanThompson> Well, one of my nephews was born on St. Patrick's day, one on Valentine's day, so I conjecture my first kid (should I have any) will be born on April Fool's day, logically.
[09:38:28] <umccullough> omg, is it possible that we may have diffused luposian by teaching him how to use "sync" ?
[09:38:42] <ddew|bofh> hehe, one can only hope
[09:38:43] <JonathanThompson> You hope for far too much, umccullough :)
[09:38:56] <JonathanThompson> I predict there will be a newly assigned Luposian Bug.
[09:39:00] *** DHowet1 has left #haiku
[09:39:18] *** bhy_ has quit IRC
[09:39:25] <JonathanThompson> It'll become the eternal Haiku community joke:  "The next release of Haiku can't be released until the last Luposian Bug is fixed!"
[09:39:32] *** bhy_ has joined #haiku
[09:39:37] *** bhy_ is now known as bhy
[09:40:06] <ddew|bofh> wth, i just read lupos last post and he actually made sense :O
[09:40:12] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku
[09:40:19] <JonathanThompson> he must have gone off his meds ;)
[09:40:20] *** Luposian has joined #haiku
[09:40:25] <JonathanThompson> LOL
[09:40:31] <ddew|bofh> hehe
[09:40:41] * JonathanThompson has a sick sense
[09:40:50] <JonathanThompson> Not a sixth, mind you: a sick sense!
[09:40:53] <Stargater> hi Luposian ( i hope you will littel bit relaxed ) :-)
[09:41:14] * Luposian isn't who you think
[09:41:38] <Luposian> too bad it's no longer April 1 :/
[09:41:47] * JonathanThompson wonders if a new IRC client has Luposian as the default client, much like BeShare has Binky as the default username
[09:41:59] *** eton has quit IRC
[09:42:35] <ddew|bofh> cool, haiku has bootman. how finished is it?
[09:42:51] <umccullough> i think it's currently in development by mpfeiffer
[09:42:57] <umccullough> laplace
[09:44:08] <ddew|bofh> looks good, the terminal output from it leads me to believe it's behaving well too :)
[09:44:38] <Teknomancer> afternoon all
[09:44:46] <JonathanThompson> Very early morning for me ;)
[09:45:39] <Teknomancer> yeah
[09:45:56] * JonathanThompson notes BeOSNews has a post about GSOC 2007 awarness raising program, and thinks we know way too much about war already
[09:46:14] <AlienSoldier> bootman is my hero, so much more classy than poorman
[09:46:36] <Teknomancer> apart from ending with man, they're both quite different :P
[09:47:18] <JonathanThompson> Teknomancer, do I really want to chat with you, when in less than 2 handfuls of hours, I'll be talking with several other Indians at work? ;)
[09:47:20] <umccullough> yeah, poorman can't afford a boot
[09:47:48] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps the Haiku bootman equivalent should be named shoeman ;)
[09:47:57] <umccullough> cobbler
[09:48:03] <Thom_Holwerda> it's  no more april 1st!
[09:48:06] <Thom_Holwerda> woohoo!
[09:48:11] <umccullough> :)
[09:48:12] <JonathanThompson> 20 major revisions from now, it'll be known as pocketlintman
[09:48:20] <umccullough> Thom_Holwerda, read your haiku-development email yet?
[09:48:32] <Thom_Holwerda> teh intertubes return to being slightly less idiotic
[09:48:37] <Thom_Holwerda> umccullough: yes
[09:48:42] <Thom_Holwerda> err
[09:48:47] <Thom_Holwerda> "your"?
[09:48:47] <JonathanThompson> Anyone yet set Haiku up and rebuild Haiku in a loop to see how many times Haiku goes before it dies?
[09:48:58] <umccullough> Thom_Holwerda, as in, the latest threads
[09:49:03] <Thom_Holwerda> yes
[09:49:10] <JonathanThompson> I think Thom_Holwerda is indicating he's not a developer ;)
[09:49:17] <ddew|bofh> JonathanThompson: i've not succeeded at getting it to build once yet :/
[09:49:23] <Thom_Holwerda> i read the lists :)
[09:49:33] * JonathanThompson notes that Thom_Holwerda isn't listless
[09:49:50] <JonathanThompson> But he keeps on moving without stopping, without apparent rhyme or reason, nonetheless ;)
[09:49:50] <Thom_Holwerda> although the number of caps and exclamation marks kind of made me nauseous
[09:50:04] <JonathanThompson> !!!VSEFGdfg??1@#%GSSDGHEHETH
[09:50:15] * JonathanThompson is feeling listful
[09:50:22] <Thom_Holwerda> JonathanThompson: dont make me hurt you.
[09:50:25] <Thom_Holwerda> ;)
[09:50:32] <JonathanThompson> I can't make you hurt me ;)
[09:50:47] <JonathanThompson> Besides, I'm afraid you might like it ;)
[09:51:15] <Stargater> bootman looks good
[09:52:29] * JonathanThompson goes to pay rent and return DVDs
[09:55:42] <Stargater> Luposian http://www.ss64.com/bash/
[09:56:59] <Luposian> Stargater, this isn't who you think :)
[09:57:00] <Stargater> and here = http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html
[09:58:02] <Stargater> Luposian yout last post in the ML =
[09:58:02] <Stargater>   I'm not
[09:58:02] <Stargater>  familiar with using the Terminal (or unix-type commands) like second
[09:58:03] <Stargater>  nature.  But I may soon learn to now... :-)
[09:58:24] *** Luposian is now known as Luposian_pwnd
[09:58:29] <Stargater> so i post tow url to better learn bashing :-)
[09:59:22] *** Luposian_pwnd is now known as not_Luposian
[09:59:52] <not_Luposian> does that make more sense?
[10:03:38] <Thom_Holwerda> im dizzy now.
[10:04:20] <umccullough> you should lay off the pills
[10:06:13] <JonathanThompson> Ok, I'm done.
[10:08:38] <Stargater> cu
[10:08:46] *** Stargater has quit IRC
[10:09:43] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
[10:15:49] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[10:16:26] <Teknomancer>  "I hate April fools.  Not just today, but all year.  Because all this crap ends up in Google search results *forever*. "   haha,  yeah never thought about that...
[10:17:02] *** AndrevS has quit IRC
[10:17:23] <AlienSoldier> Teknomancer that is why HD crash are so important, prevent crust to invade our civilisation
[10:18:47] <Teknomancer> hah
[10:24:42] <ddew|bofh> gah, self-hosting just isn't working for me. ah well, atleast he system's stabbbbbbbble eno nowwwwtt doeeeeeeee't cvre  look at      it:)
[10:24:50] <ddew|bofh> uhhm
[10:25:12] <ddew|bofh> sorry bout that, my cellphone or something interferred with my wireless kbd
[10:25:40] <ddew|bofh> *atleast the system's stable enough that it doesn't crash every tie i look at it
[10:28:46] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku
[10:32:19] *** cshaiku has joined #haiku
[10:32:24] <cshaiku> yo
[10:32:27] *** MichaelHenry has quit IRC
[10:32:58] <ddew|bofh> lo
[10:33:05] <cshaiku> how goes?
[10:33:22] <ddew|bofh> it's going pretty well
[10:33:49] <cshaiku> just talking with MYOB on Google Talk there, and I got curious to see who's all here. :)
[10:33:54] <cshaiku> this is Chris from HaikuNews.org
[10:33:55] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
[10:34:04] <ddew|bofh> ah, welcome
[10:34:08] * JonathanThompson attacks Technix rabidly
[10:34:40] * ddew|bofh gets frustrated over Haikus stubborness
[10:34:40] <cshaiku> hehe
[10:34:46] <cshaiku> hey Jonathan!
[10:34:47] <cshaiku> ltns
[10:34:59] <JonathanThompson> Yeah, sucks to be blind, eh? :)
[10:35:22] <cshaiku> ?
[10:35:23] *** tic has quit IRC
[10:35:27] <cshaiku> what you mean, blind
[10:35:38] * umccullough goes to sleep
[10:35:40] * JonathanThompson has been known to speak in encrypted thoughts
[10:35:51] <cshaiku> you're an encrypted thought. :P
[10:35:59] <JonathanThompson> DES key?
[10:36:15] * JonathanThompson wonders how many bits are in his key
[10:36:21] <cshaiku> was thinking, Mars Alien Encoding or something
[10:36:30] <JonathanThompson> Woh, that could end up being interpreted as innuendo ;)
[10:36:36] <cshaiku> hehehe.
[10:36:39] <Teknomancer> cshaiku == Technix?
[10:36:42] <cshaiku> yup
[10:36:46] <Teknomancer> hi Technix
[10:36:54] <cshaiku> yeah, I haven't use Technix in forever
[10:36:57] <JonathanThompson> Still in Canada?
[10:36:59] <Teknomancer> remember you from the BeShare days
[10:37:04] <cshaiku> well, returned to Canada in 2006
[10:37:08] *** tic has joined #haiku
[10:37:12] <cshaiku> I spent 4 years in Holland, if you'll remember
[10:37:29] <cshaiku> yeah, BeShare still has fond memories for me.
[10:37:33] <JonathanThompson> Yeah, there was that misdirected part of your life ;)
[10:37:38] <cshaiku> hehe
[10:37:50] <cshaiku> I'm back in Canada, anyhow, and have been keeping an eye on things
[10:37:59] <cshaiku> HaikuNews will see some postings this year too.
[10:38:04] <JonathanThompson> Walk into many walls as a result?
[10:38:21] <cshaiku> no, I use my out-stretched arms for navigating. :P
[10:38:30] <cshaiku> helps keep the pyschos away
[10:38:35] <JonathanThompson> Ah, a Haiku Zombie process run amok!
[10:38:40] <cshaiku> lol
[10:38:53] <cshaiku> more like NightShift of the Living Zombies here.
[10:39:01] <cshaiku> which reminds me, gotta check on a server.
[10:39:02] <cshaiku> brb
[10:40:03] <cshaiku> is all good.
[10:40:08] <cshaiku> so, you still programming, Jon?
[10:40:44] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku
[10:40:46] *** salierix has quit IRC
[10:40:51] <JonathanThompson> Yup.
[10:41:21] <JonathanThompson> Doing a different job description than I'd have guessed I'd be doing at this time 2 years ago, that's for sure.
[10:41:30] <cshaiku> where do you work?
[10:41:37] <cshaiku> and, did you manage to keep your house?
[10:41:38] <JonathanThompson> Bellevue, WA office of Yahoo.
[10:41:42] <JonathanThompson> No, didn't keep the house.
[10:41:46] <cshaiku> last we talked, you were like.. in deep debt
[10:41:54] <JonathanThompson> (At least I got rid of the lousy neighbors at the same time)
[10:42:06] <cshaiku> you work for Yahoo? cool
[10:42:17] <JonathanThompson> Well, thanks to the magic of that Big Black Mark, I'm no longer in deep debt.
[10:42:30] <JonathanThompson> I'm working as a white-box QA engineer on the Everest database platform.
[10:42:39] <Teknomancer> QA..? testing?
[10:42:56] <JonathanThompson> White-box QA: meaning I need to write code to work with the innards of the system.
[10:43:02] <JonathanThompson> And analyze data, etc.
[10:43:07] <Teknomancer> oh ok
[10:43:13] <cshaiku> well I'm glad that you landed on your feet.
[10:43:40] <JonathanThompson> Well, it has been a rough transition, moving across the continent, getting laid off twice (effectively) once I got out here, having a crane fall on top of me, that sort of thing.
[10:44:18] * JonathanThompson waits for it
[10:44:19] <cshaiku> at least you got to experience nature. not every day you get to meet wildlife.
[10:44:30] <JonathanThompson> No, not that kind of crane :D
[10:44:35] <cshaiku> zing!
[10:44:36] <cshaiku> :)
[10:44:50] * JonathanThompson waits for it again
[10:45:04] <cshaiku> naw, too tired to parse it for hidden meaning
[10:45:13] <JonathanThompson> 210 foot tall construction crane.
[10:45:41] <JonathanThompson> I came out physically ok, because my top-floor neighbor slowed it down enough with his body.
[10:45:58] <cshaiku> geez
[10:46:01] <cshaiku> only in America?
[10:46:15] <JonathanThompson> Oh, I'm sure others get crushed by construction cranes in other countries ;)
[10:46:46] <JonathanThompson> Bellevue, WA I think has more cranes in use than Starbucks, and that's saying a lot.
[10:47:02] <cshaiku> I didn't know Starbucks used cranes.
[10:47:22] * JonathanThompson wonders if there's still 16 Starbucks in Bellevue, like his last phonebook check
[10:47:24] <cshaiku> maybe for their extra extra grand lattes?
[10:47:44] <JonathanThompson> Well, enough people are hopped-up on coffee around here...
[10:47:50] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
[10:48:02] <JonathanThompson> There are several places I can show you with Starbucks right across the street from each other.
[10:48:12] <cshaiku> sad
[10:48:17] <Thom_Holwerda> ive never been to a starbucks
[10:48:29] <Teknomancer> me neither
[10:48:34] <Thom_Holwerda> there are two at schiphol airport in amsterdam, but that's all they have here
[10:48:41] <cshaiku> I've been to one, but didn't order anything
[10:48:48] <cshaiku> hey Thom!
[10:48:57] <Thom_Holwerda> hi cshaiku
[10:49:01] <cshaiku> how goes?
[10:49:05] <JonathanThompson> On 108th Ave NE where I lived in Bellevue, I can stand in the middle of the street and see 3 of them within one block on the same street.
[10:49:18] *** waveshaper has joined #haiku
[10:49:21] <JonathanThompson> (2 right across the street from each other)
[10:49:40] <Thom_Holwerda> good, good
[10:49:41] <Thom_Holwerda> you?
[10:49:50] <Thom_Holwerda> JonathanThompson: sick.
[10:50:00] <cshaiku> still alive, and getting over a stomach virus, that sort of thing
[10:50:15] <JonathanThompson> My apartment windows in Bellevue looked out over the Starbucks right across the street: my current Mercer Island apartment looks out perfectly over the Mercer Island drive-thru Starbucks:  across the street on another side of the apartment building, there's another Starbucks.
[10:50:18] <cshaiku> just moved to a new apartment 2 days ago too, lots of changes in my immediate future
[10:50:22] <Thom_Holwerda> im always a bit saddened by the fact that in NL, a coffee shop means something completely different :(
[10:50:28] <cshaiku> heh, too true
[10:50:42] *** eton has joined #haiku
[10:50:53] <cshaiku> brb food is here
[10:51:46] <waveshaper> Im trying to play a file using VLC but seem to get the same error with all files saying late frame skipped. does anyone know a format that works that I can test?
[10:52:03] <waveshaper> Im using the latest image from haikuware
[10:52:52] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[10:56:21] *** skoe has joined #haiku
[10:59:06] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku
[11:01:30] <cshaiku> what is the file you're trying to play, waveshaper ?
[11:02:15] *** darbelo has left #haiku
[11:04:36] <cshaiku> ltns, pyCube_
[11:06:04] *** AlienSoldier has quit IRC
[11:07:06] <waveshaper> .avi file
[11:10:10] <cshaiku> you should try a simple .mpg file to test
[11:10:27] <waveshaper> mkay
[11:10:36] <cshaiku> there's plenty of .mpg files online, or if you have your old BeOS discs, there are some movies on them
[11:11:01] <waveshaper> yup. got the old beos demo video. think that was mpg
[11:14:56] *** pyCube has quit IRC
[11:18:06] *** dchis has joined #haiku
[11:24:25] <cshaiku> mm, chinese food
[11:24:25] *** bhy has quit IRC
[11:26:53] <cshaiku> well folks, ttyl
[11:27:05] <cshaiku> I'm going to stay connected, just I'll be away and back, from time to time
[11:34:36] *** upczhsh has joined #haiku
[11:37:07] *** Atomozer0 has joined #haiku
[11:37:26] <CIA-47> axeld * r24737 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
[11:37:26] <CIA-47> * Added a TRANSACTION_IDLE notification that is sent when the transaction
[11:37:26] <CIA-47>  hasn't been used for more than 2 seconds.
[11:37:26] <CIA-47> * Replaced the block_cache::lock benaphore with a recursive lock, so that
[11:37:26] <CIA-47>  you can call cache functions from within the notification listeners.
[11:46:37] <CIA-47> axeld * r24738 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/ (Journal.cpp Journal.h): (log message trimmed)
[11:46:37] <CIA-47> Resolved a TODO in Journal::Lock() that Urias reminded me about:
[11:46:37] <CIA-47> * BFS now uses a transaction listener that flushes the current transaction
[11:46:37] <CIA-47>  in case it is idle; before, transactions would always be kept open when
[11:46:37] <CIA-47>  they weren't large, so that the block writer could not write back the blocks
[11:46:41] <CIA-47>  (they were busy from its POV).
[11:46:44] <CIA-47> * This solves the described problem of the screen resolution not being written
[11:47:49] *** upczhsh has left #haiku
[11:53:32] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[11:54:04] *** bhy_ has joined #haiku
[11:54:08] *** bhy_ is now known as bhy
[11:56:34] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku
[11:56:34] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[12:03:53] *** mmadia has quit IRC
[12:17:22] <cshaiku> moo
[12:17:31] <mmu_man> plop
[12:17:34] *** mmu_man has quit IRC
[12:17:38] <cshaiku> fizz
[12:17:47] <cshaiku> hey good buddy, how goes?
[12:23:23] *** andybe has joined #haiku
[12:31:14] *** Teknomancer is now known as _Tek
[12:44:13] <CIA-47> axeld * r24739 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/cache/ (block_cache.cpp block_cache_private.h):
[12:44:13] <CIA-47> * block_cache_private.h is no longer needed, moved its contents into
[12:44:13] <CIA-47>  block_cache.cpp.
[12:44:13] <CIA-47> * Fixed warning.
[12:50:07] *** Euver has joined #haiku
[12:53:34] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku
[12:53:34] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[12:55:19] *** Atomozer0 has quit IRC
[12:56:30] *** Euver has quit IRC
[12:58:18] *** mmu_man has quit IRC
[13:01:44] *** eton has quit IRC
[13:04:15] <CIA-47> stippi * r24740 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/DrawState.cpp:
[13:04:15] <CIA-47> The scale of a state does not influence the origin. Only previous states
[13:04:15] <CIA-47> and their origin and scale influences the current state's origin, since
[13:04:15] <CIA-47> they can be regarded as within the parent state's coordinate system.
[13:12:09] *** leszek has joined #haiku
[13:12:43] <CIA-47> stippi * r24741 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[13:12:43] <CIA-47> HWInterface::Cursor() and therefor Desktop::Cursor() accessed the
[13:12:43] <CIA-47> current cursor without locking, and did not add a reference while
[13:12:43] <CIA-47> using the cursor. I have tried to solve both problems by introducing
[13:12:43] <CIA-47> a simple ServerCursorReference class, which makes sure that the
[13:12:44] <CIA-47> reference count is properly maintained. There are only two places
[13:12:48] <CIA-47> where this code was even used, from within ServerApp and when taking
[13:13:11] *** dchis has quit IRC
[13:16:50] <leszek> hi
[13:17:24] * andybe is there a command to setting alltributes by hand...through the harddisk?
[13:17:36] *** Tonik has joined #haiku
[13:18:00] * andybe openwith is empty on a text file
[13:18:48] *** andybe has quit IRC
[13:20:25] *** andybe has joined #haiku
[13:20:29] * andybe re
[13:27:50] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku
[13:43:05] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku
[13:43:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[13:43:26] <andybe> hello mmu_man
[13:54:36] <mmu_man> re
[13:54:47] <mmu_man> my battery is dying :-(
[13:55:35] *** petterhj has joined #haiku
[13:58:12] * andybe give mmu_man some enegy
[13:59:40] *** burfi has joined #haiku
[13:59:43] *** hakimrie has joined #haiku
[14:01:15] *** dchis has joined #haiku
[14:01:21] <mmu_man> let's see if a trip to the freezer helped
[14:02:02] <cshaiku> plop
[14:02:05] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku
[14:02:35] <[Katisu]> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jCnRnfX3JFbs4PLJ-6I4sYlFcpsQD8VOPVFG2
[14:05:45] <[Katisu]> imagine the mental harm done to this person
[14:06:36] <ddew|bofh> hmm, kernelspace 0xdeadbeef sounds weird
[14:16:17] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku
[14:18:26] *** hakimrie has quit IRC
[14:19:19] *** mmu_man has quit IRC
[14:19:23] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC
[14:19:31] <CIA-47> axeld * r24742 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/vm/ (vm_cache.cpp vm_store_anonymous_noswap.cpp): (log message trimmed)
[14:19:31] <CIA-47> * Fixed several occasions of bugs with respect to the handling of
[14:19:31] <CIA-47>  overcommitting stores:
[14:19:31] <CIA-47>  - has_precommitted was incorrectly set to true in the constructor
[14:19:31] <CIA-47>  - when a precommitted page was committed, vm_store::committed_size
[14:19:35] <CIA-47>  was still changed.
[14:19:38] <CIA-47>  - unreserving memory did not update vm_store::committed_size.
[14:20:28] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku
[14:20:28] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[14:20:57] <ddew|bofh> i keep getting a "unhandled page fault in kernelspace at 0xdeadbeef, ip 0xdeadbeef"
[14:21:20] <andybe> ddew|bofh: yeah, that is true...
[14:21:21] <ddew|bofh> seems like a very odd memory address to get a page fault for
[14:21:30] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: that's a debugging mem address actually
[14:24:39] <mmu_man> something is accessing a freed memory block, or using an uninitialized pointer
[14:25:28] <ddew|bofh> it's right before the desktop draws
[14:25:32] <ddew|bofh> app_server perhaps?
[14:25:43] <andybe> I think not
[14:25:44] <DeadYak> that won't KDL
[14:26:54] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku
[14:27:28] <burfi> Hi! Anyone got sound through OpenSound add-on? Doesn't work here.
[14:27:30] <CIA-47> axeld * r24743 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/main.c:
[14:27:30] <CIA-47> * Removed old /bin/init startup code - it hasn't been needed for ages anymore.
[14:27:30] <CIA-47> * Some cleanup.
[14:27:31] *** Begasus has joined #haiku
[14:28:23] <Begasus> afternoon
[14:28:30] <ddew|bofh> hiya
[14:30:02] <CIA-47> bonefish * r24744 /haiku/trunk/src/tools/fs_shell/fssh.cpp: Use a reasonable umask when creating directories.
[14:30:03] <mmu_man> burfi works fine here :p
[14:30:10] <CIA-47> axeld * r24745 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[14:30:10] <CIA-47> * Renamed vm_get_available_memory() to vm_available_memory() to fit better
[14:30:10] <CIA-47>  into our usual naming scheme.
[14:30:10] <CIA-47> * Minor cleanup.
[14:30:16] <mmu_man> else I wouldn't have sound at all
[14:32:56] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
[14:35:27] <burfi> The oss sound mixer show up, but the master  shows randomly as not connected between boots. even when connected and I can move the slider, no sound.
[14:35:44] <burfi> btw. media_server crashes on restart
[14:36:00] <mmu_man> make sure you don't have a native driver that conflicts
[14:36:15] <burfi> no native driver for my card
[14:36:45] <burfi> ESS Technology ES1969 Solo-1 Audiodrive
[14:37:15] *** clsk has quit IRC
[14:37:17] <mmu_man> does it work with osstest ?
[14:37:35] <mmu_man> (must quit media_server first)
[14:37:36] <burfi> ok. have to try that.
[14:38:23] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku
[14:38:49] *** hakimrie has joined #haiku
[14:47:16] <CIA-47> axeld * r24746 /haiku/trunk/src/ (bin/sysinfo.c system/kernel/system_info.cpp):
[14:47:16] <CIA-47> * Reenabled used page reporting based on vm_available_memory().
[14:47:16] <CIA-47> * Prettyfied memory info in the sysinfo app.
[14:47:16] <CIA-47> * Minor cleanup.
[14:49:57] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
[14:53:37] *** burfi has left #haiku
[14:55:31] *** BlankBruno has joined #haiku
[14:55:43] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[14:57:40] *** BlankBruno has quit IRC
[14:58:04] *** WindowsUninstall has joined #haiku
[14:58:13] *** shackan has joined #haiku
[15:00:01] *** cherry` has joined #haiku
[15:01:17] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku
[15:04:12] <CIA-47> axeld * r24747 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/FontManager.cpp:
[15:04:12] <CIA-47> * AttachUser() now creates the user directory if it's not there yet. Added
[15:04:12] <CIA-47>  a TODO comment that find_directory() won't return the correct directory in
[15:04:12] <CIA-47>  a multi-user environment. This fixes bug #2003.
[15:04:12] <CIA-47> * Some cleanup.
[15:04:13] *** andybe_haku_2 has joined #haiku
[15:04:26] <andybe_haku_2> hm wired
[15:04:27] *** burfi has joined #haiku
[15:04:37] *** _Tek is now known as Ramshankar
[15:04:45] *** Ramshankar is now known as Teknomancer
[15:04:49] <cshaiku> howdee Teknomancer
[15:04:59] <Teknomancer> hi cshaiku
[15:05:08] <andybe_haku_2> DeadYak seams to be that the firefox package isnt complete
[15:05:12] <andybe_haku_2> missing stubs
[15:05:46] <DeadYak> no
[15:05:47] <burfi> alright then mmu_,,am, killed media_server, started osstest, straight page fault panic :-/
[15:05:50] <DeadYak> the stubs are missing intentionally
[15:05:55] <DeadYak> because those were needed for R5 hacks
[15:05:58] <mmu_man> burfi ouch
[15:06:13] <andybe_haku_2> doesnt startup
[15:06:14] <DeadYak> to work around R5's 32MB add-on limit
[15:06:17] <DeadYak> starts fine here
[15:06:18] <Begasus> hey Teknomancer ! ;)
[15:06:23] <DeadYak> at least mmadia's one does
[15:06:26] <Teknomancer> hi Begasus :)
[15:06:35] <andybe_haku_2> wiche release you are using
[15:07:15] <DeadYak> firefox-2.0.0.14pre.en-US.BeOS-bone-2008031617.zip
[15:08:18] <andybe_haku_2> on haiku?
[15:08:27] <DeadYak> yes.
[15:08:34] <DeadYak> I don't use any other rev of BeOS these days
[15:08:37] <andybe_haku_2> I populate on a real hardisk here.
[15:08:43] <DeadYak> same
[15:09:19] <andybe_haku_2> wich svn version?
[15:09:42] <DeadYak> whatever's current at the time
[15:10:00] <ddew|bofh> anyone else have run into a vm page fault with the latest few rvisions?
[15:10:06] <DeadYak> BGA has
[15:10:20] <andybe_haku_2> yesterday it works fine... but now...wired many info about memory problems
[15:10:44] <ddew|bofh> it's insanely random here, i've managed to repro it once on qemu and once on real hw. the other times i try it just hangs at desktop
[15:11:24] *** cherry`` has quit IRC
[15:12:24] <DeadYak> that's what BGA reported also
[15:13:01] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku
[15:14:37] <ddew|bofh> sometime next week when dev.haiku-os.org wakes up i'll add my stack trace to his report. seeing how it has to be the same bug
[15:15:32] <DeadYak> he made a bug for it already?
[15:15:45] <ddew|bofh> doesn't look like it
[15:16:03] <andybe> it works till r24719
[15:16:31] <ddew|bofh> i have r24735 running here on real hw
[15:17:01] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: 24735 shows it?
[15:17:29] <ddew|bofh> nope, that's the last working version i have'
[15:17:46] <andybe_haku_2> mimetyp doen't work as expacted.
[15:18:04] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: can you check if it's 24738 that breaks it for you?
[15:18:21] <DeadYak> trying to narrow down an svn rev
[15:18:27] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i'm checking out that revision as we speak
[15:18:29] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
[15:19:27] <andybe_haku_2> 45 now but disable...many things at boottime. Im here in vmware...
[15:21:39] *** _Lucretia__ is now known as _Lucretia_
[15:21:50] *** andybe_haku_2 has quit IRC
[15:22:54] <andybe> disable ACPI,APM, BIOS, SMP (but shows up both CPU's at all), IDE DMA
[15:23:54] <ddew|bofh> my beos box works perfectly :)
[15:23:55] <andybe> ok sorry got only one pu
[15:28:26] <andybe> DeadYak:  I go into the terminal into firefox
[15:28:33] <andybe> create an directory
[15:28:49] <andybe> before I can create links i get vm_page_fault
[15:29:23] <ddew|bofh> with the address 0xdeadbeef ?
[15:29:36] *** Dragossh has joined #haiku
[15:31:22] <andybe> yes ddew|bofh
[15:32:08] <ddew|bofh> sounds like what i'm seeing here as well
[15:32:10] <andybe> and when i exit, it changes the cpu (somtimes), but i can't get out of the debug modus.
[15:33:16] <andybe> I tested it to go directly into /beos/apps...but it doesn't help, same thing happen
[15:37:39] *** Begasus is now known as Begasus_bbl
[15:38:05] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
[15:39:45] <CIA-47> bonefish * r24748 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/libroot/libroot_lock.h:
[15:39:45] <CIA-47> Copied the benaphore implementation from the kernel for use in libroot.
[15:39:45] <CIA-47> Would be nice to actually share those.
[15:39:52] *** TheNerd__ is now known as TheNerd
[15:42:43] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[15:45:37] *** Schmedly3D has joined #haiku
[15:51:37] <CIA-47> axeld * r24749 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/cache/block_cache.cpp:
[15:51:37] <CIA-47> * A notification can cause a transaction to be deleted - in this case, the
[15:51:37] <CIA-47>  block_writer() as well as notify_transaction_listeners() must update their
[15:51:37] <CIA-47>  data or quit. This fixes newly introduced bug #2008.
[15:51:37] <CIA-47> * Minor cleanup.
[15:52:18] *** andybe_haiku has joined #haiku
[15:52:49] *** capycube has joined #haiku
[15:56:00] *** waveshaper has quit IRC
[16:01:01] *** shackan has quit IRC
[16:01:08] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku
[16:02:56] <CIA-47> bonefish * r24750 /haiku/trunk/ (20 files in 7 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[16:02:56] <CIA-47> * Replaced the dummy implementations of the <grp.h> and <pwd.h>
[16:02:56] <CIA-47>  functions by ones reading /etc/{group,passwd}.
[16:02:56] <CIA-47> * Added quasi-standard getpwent_r() and getgrent_r().
[16:02:56] <CIA-47> * Added _SC_GETGR_R_SIZE_MAX and _SC_GETPW_R_SIZE_MAX sysconf()
[16:02:57] <CIA-47>  constants.
[16:02:59] <CIA-47> * Moved initgroups() and getgrouplist() definition to grp.cpp. They use
[16:04:53] *** Wiss has joined #haiku
[16:07:23] *** andybe_haiku has quit IRC
[16:07:25] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
[16:08:50] <PulkoMandy> http://dev.haiku-os.org/roadmap hum, there is a broken link here, in the description of R1 there is a link to R1/alpha but it should be R1/alpha1 ...
[16:09:20] <ddew|bofh> fun, now font manager craps out for me :/
[16:09:38] <andybe> PulkoMandy: make a ticket
[16:10:04] <andybe> PulkoMandy: it works here...
[16:10:05] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: pardon?
[16:10:15] <ddew|bofh> it boots straight into gdb
[16:11:02] *** Hugen_ has joined #haiku
[16:11:09] <Hugen_> hi all
[16:11:26] <cshaiku> yo
[16:12:20] *** begasus_ has joined #haiku
[16:12:21] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: that was in change 24747...let me look if it's something obvious
[16:12:54] <Hugen_> hi Begasus
[16:12:59] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: is it crashing in find_directory?
[16:15:13] * DeadYak prods ddew|bofh
[16:15:26] <ddew|bofh> i'm trying to figure that out :)
[16:15:27] <DeadYak> also, what rev was that?
[16:15:39] <DeadYak> what's the first line or two of the backtrace?
[16:15:45] <DeadYak> just the function names
[16:16:07] <ddew|bofh> tcsetpgrp failed in terminal_inferior: Invalid Argument
[16:16:16] <DeadYak> that one always shows up...after that?
[16:16:48] <ddew|bofh> Thread 50 called debugger (): font manager could not be initialized
[16:16:55] <DeadYak> oh
[16:16:58] <DeadYak> now that's interesting
[16:17:01] * andybe back into r24719 be shure...
[16:17:13] <DeadYak> what revision was that ddew?
[16:17:16] <andybe> DeadYak: no problem here with the version above
[16:18:02] <andybe> firefox stil not come up, because of missing stub. but i can crate diretoy and links....
[16:18:07] <ddew|bofh> version 48 or 49
[16:18:18] <DeadYak> I get the missing stub dir errors too, it starts for me either way
[16:20:34] *** absabs has joined #haiku
[16:20:51] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC
[16:21:00] *** skoe has quit IRC
[16:22:10] <andybe> hm, looks like he will open the real http ore something like that...an hangs up before i can see anything...
[16:22:29] <andybe> ok no going into 20
[16:22:57] * andybe the april joke
[16:23:29] *** Begasus_bbl has quit IRC
[16:24:10] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
[16:24:38] *** Dragossh has quit IRC
[16:28:26] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku
[16:28:47] <andybe> ddew|bofh, DeadYak  version 20 works
[16:29:10] <andybe> ups to early
[16:29:29] <andybe> back in debugging land page fault, but interrupts were disabled
[16:29:55] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[16:30:00] <andybe> address 0x0000000075 fromp eip 0x8002e786 DeadYak
[16:30:05] <ddew|bofh> 35 works fine here
[16:30:21] <andybe> wired...
[16:30:31] <andybe> something todo with vmware?
[16:30:38] <ddew|bofh> running it on real hw
[16:30:45] <andybe> I know ddew|bofh
[16:30:52] <andybe> you inform me before
[16:31:14] <ddew|bofh> oh, you were talking about your problem?
[16:31:16] * andybe bä....only reboot works
[16:31:39] <andybe> creating links, running firefox...
[16:32:08] <andybe> I ll take a shoot tomorrow and make a ticket....
[16:32:15] * andybe going home
[16:32:46] <andybe> wish you the best...
[16:32:50] *** andybe has quit IRC
[16:35:36] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC
[16:37:18] *** plfiorini has quit IRC
[16:38:21] *** hakimrie has quit IRC
[16:44:57] <stpere> hi
[16:46:22] *** bSON has joined #haiku
[16:48:07] *** capycube has quit IRC
[16:48:38] *** TheNerd_ has joined #haiku
[16:50:57] <ddew|bofh> anyone here know how to attach a picture to a comment in trac?
[16:51:40] <ddew|bofh> nvm, it was trac bugging out on me
[16:51:44] <DeadYak> isn't it the same as any other attachment? :)
[16:52:29] <ddew|bofh> well i wasn't the one who filed the bug :)
[16:53:14] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku
[16:53:34] <ddew|bofh> dev.haiku-os.org really is painfully slow
[16:56:13] *** TheNerd__ has joined #haiku
[16:56:58] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku
[16:57:15] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
[16:57:30] *** Barrett has joined #haiku
[16:57:58] *** Hugen_ has quit IRC
[17:00:46] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC
[17:00:47] *** Barrett is now known as Barrett666
[17:01:32] *** omegaman has joined #haiku
[17:01:36] <omegaman> eveneing
[17:01:40] <omegaman> evening...
[17:03:13] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC
[17:03:55] *** TheNerd has quit IRC
[17:09:53] <CIA-47> bonefish * r24751 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/os/find_directory.c: Use the thread-safe getpwuid_r() instead of getpwuid().
[17:11:09] *** alex_ has joined #haiku
[17:11:16] *** alex_ has left #haiku
[17:11:20] *** TheNerd_ has quit IRC
[17:11:25] *** aroman has joined #haiku
[17:13:13] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC
[17:20:46] *** tqh has joined #haiku
[17:24:42] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku
[17:24:47] * DeadYak pets MauriceK
[17:24:49] <MauriceK> hey
[17:24:56] <stpere> hi Maurice
[17:25:17] * MauriceK got earlier home from work, as company is poisoned with dissolver...
[17:25:36] <stpere> ouch
[17:25:45] <stpere> anyone's hurt?
[17:26:06] <MauriceK> stpere: nothing serious, we just moved to new premises, and it is actually a complete new building, which hasn't been finished yet
[17:26:30] <MauriceK> thus, the builder are still working there...
[17:26:45] <MauriceK> poisened is more like my head currently feels :)
[17:27:29] <DeadYak> ouch :)
[17:27:42] <stpere> DeadYak: it's working now
[17:27:57] <DeadYak> stpere: nice!
[17:28:02] <DeadYak> attach that to your other diff :)
[17:28:07] <stpere> yup
[17:30:44] <mmu_man> MauriceK don't tell me you're responsible for spreading it :p
[17:30:48] <stpere> I have the impression to learn quite a bit about how an OS works :)
[17:31:11] <MauriceK> mmu_man: If I were, I wouldn't complain about myself :)
[17:33:01] <DeadYak> stpere: there's quite a few things we do a bit differently from most :)
[17:42:56] *** Schmedly3D has quit IRC
[17:44:14] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku
[17:54:26] <CIA-47> axeld * r24752 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/file_systems/bfs/ (Journal.cpp Journal.h):
[17:54:26] <CIA-47> * Quick fix for a possible deadlock I introduced with the block_cache
[17:54:26] <CIA-47>  idle notification. We should rework the cache notifications to work
[17:54:26] <CIA-47>  asynchronously.
[17:54:49] *** Wiss has quit IRC
[17:57:57] *** Wiss has joined #haiku
[17:58:06] *** pyCube_ has quit IRC
[17:58:17] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
[18:02:04] *** Wiss has quit IRC
[18:02:21] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[18:03:50] *** absabs has quit IRC
[18:03:54] *** Wiss has joined #haiku
[18:04:36] *** helf has joined #haiku
[18:04:39] <helf> hola
[18:04:43] <ddew|bofh> hiya
[18:04:46] <stpere> hey
[18:06:50] *** miqlas has joined #haiku
[18:06:54] <helf> hey miqlas
[18:07:25] <Wiss> lol I have a little problem, need time : I installed MacPorts and DarwinPorts, but the port command is not found on the terminal
[18:08:12] <JonathanThompson> Which OS are you on, Wiss?
[18:08:48] <DeadYak> JonathanThompson: doesn't what he was installing kind of imply that? :)
[18:08:58] <JonathanThompson> No :)
[18:09:05] <JonathanThompson> It just implies he's wanting to install it :D
[18:09:23] <Wiss> JonathanThompson : Mac Os X 10.5
[18:09:25] * JonathanThompson has seen too many situations that weren't exactly as implied
[18:09:48] <JonathanThompson> Well, I'm glad to hear you're not trying to do that in Haiku :)
[18:09:51] <CIA-47> axeld * r24753 /haiku/trunk/src/data/beos_mime/application/x-scode-upkg:
[18:09:51] <CIA-47> * Added MIME type for packages for our PackageInstaller based on the
[18:09:51] <CIA-47>  patch by Philippe Saint-Pierre that is part of ticket #2006.
[18:09:51] <CIA-47> * Added sniffer rule.
[18:09:51] <CIA-47> * For now, added package icon without any flags.
[18:09:54] <JonathanThompson> That'd be fruitless.
[18:10:20] * JonathanThompson thinks of his latest bit of unusually weird dream segments he remembers
[18:10:23] <stpere> yay! :)
[18:10:43] <JonathanThompson> Mixing math and music and outline pictures all in one dream is a new one on me.
[18:10:52] <JonathanThompson> All on one chalkboard, even.
[18:11:14] <JonathanThompson> Can't forget the pig being handed around the classroom, either...
[18:12:11] <Wiss> lol excuse me JonathanThompson, I wrote in the wrong channel :$
[18:13:33] <Teknomancer> hi-again JonathanThompson
[18:13:42] <JonathanThompson> Hi again, Teknomancer.
[18:13:49] <JonathanThompson> Need to leave for work soon.
[18:16:57] *** begasus_ is now known as Begasus
[18:17:57] <Begasus> re
[18:18:25] <burfi> bock
[18:21:06] <helf> just about every situation jt comes up with it not as implied
[18:21:14] <helf> s/it/si
[18:21:15] <helf> is
[18:21:16] <helf> .
[18:21:17] <helf> ..
[18:21:18] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku
[18:21:19] <helf> :P
[18:21:25] <helf> wow, NO TYPING SKILLS TODAY FOR ME
[18:21:30] * JonathanThompson implies helf
[18:21:40] <JonathanThompson> Wait, you're not implied?
[18:21:42] <ddew|bofh> oh the implications
[18:21:57] <JonathanThompson> Oh, the places I will go!
[18:22:00] * JonathanThompson goes on helf
[18:22:18] <JonathanThompson> Not necessarily what's implied, note ;)
[18:22:20] * Begasus hands helf  a copy of tuxtyping ;)
[18:22:58] * JonathanThompson wonders what would be considered the strangest part of his dream...
[18:23:28] <JonathanThompson> Let's see, a woman giving me $10 in ones that records all the serial numbers?  (or did I give them to her, I forget)...
[18:23:54] <JonathanThompson> Or being asked to give the logarithm of half a measure of music notation...
[18:24:25] <JonathanThompson> Or having graphs of other presumed functions, once more closely inspected, actually be the outlines of what are clearly people...
[18:27:55] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
[18:28:02] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku
[18:28:40] *** dchis has quit IRC
[18:29:57] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC
[18:34:14] <mmu_man> hehe, bloody process_refs()
[18:34:24] <mmu_man> Tracker unloads the addon when it returns :D
[18:37:02] *** omegaman has quit IRC
[18:38:45] *** _miqlas_ has joined #haiku
[18:38:46] *** miqlas has quit IRC
[18:41:03] *** AlexForster has joined #haiku
[18:42:48] <_miqlas_> Helo Helf!
[18:43:06] *** _miqlas_ is now known as miqlas
[18:43:21] <miqlas> Hello!
[18:43:27] <Begasus> mmu_man, "warning: multi-character character constant" does this sound familiar?
[18:44:39] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
[18:45:00] <DeadYak> Begasus: that will happen if you do something like: int32 x = 'abcd';
[18:45:10] *** pyCube has joined #haiku
[18:45:11] <DeadYak> which is technically legal but suspicious in some cases
[18:45:51] <Begasus> it's actualy in the be headers where the warnings occur DeadYak
[18:46:04] <DeadYak> yeah, older gcc didn't complain about that iirc
[18:46:09] <Begasus> AppDefs.h and Typeconstants.h ...
[18:46:12] <DeadYak> unless you specifically said -wno-multichar
[18:46:23] <Begasus> ah ;)
[18:46:31] <Begasus> that can be aranged ;)
[18:47:03] *** pyCube has quit IRC
[18:50:11] <Thom_Holwerda> ola
[18:50:19] <Thom_Holwerda> did we reach another milestone yet?
[18:50:28] <DeadYak> not really :P
[18:50:56] <Thom_Holwerda> bah pprogres is soooo sloooow
[18:50:57] <Thom_Holwerda> :P
[18:51:05] *** luroh has joined #haiku
[18:51:18] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[18:51:21] * DeadYak trouts
[18:53:13] *** pyCube has joined #haiku
[18:53:51] *** pyCube_ has joined #haiku
[18:54:59] *** daste has joined #haiku
[18:54:59] *** bSON has quit IRC
[18:55:26] *** bSON has joined #haiku
[18:55:36] *** johndrinkwater has joined #haiku
[18:55:49] <helf> you know
[18:55:57] <helf> i wonder how often two internet predators collide
[18:56:02] <helf> colide
[18:56:30] * DeadYak blinks
[18:56:40] <helf> seriously
[18:57:00] <helf> two pervs out looking for prey and they start talking to each other online
[18:57:17] <helf> each thinking the other is a 13 year old. they are pretty good at posing as one at this point
[18:57:31] <helf> then they meet in real life and duke it out with torture toys
[18:57:36] <helf> to kickass metal soundtrack
[18:57:50] <DeadYak> ......
[18:57:56] <DeadYak> I'm not going to ask how your day at work is
[18:58:00] *** urnenfeld has joined #haiku
[18:58:04] <helf> bored, obviously ^_^
[18:59:39] *** Ingenu_ has joined #Haiku
[19:00:43] <helf> i have no idea where that thought sprung up from
[19:00:47] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC
[19:00:54] <DeadYak> precisely what I'm scared of :P
[19:01:12] *** jiuda_D`arkness has quit IRC
[19:01:16] *** Ingenu has quit IRC
[19:01:18] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC
[19:01:21] *** NeonLicht has quit IRC
[19:01:21] *** Ingenu_ is now known as Ingenu
[19:01:24] * Teknomancer *stretches*
[19:01:31] *** Barrett666 has joined #haiku
[19:02:39] <helf> probably had something to do wit hthat horrible air matress I slept on at my grandparents last night. i'd rather sleep on hard floor after that
[19:03:35] *** NeonLicht has joined #haiku
[19:03:41] <Teknomancer> oh yeah that takes time getting used to.. needs to be really firm
[19:03:42] <pyCube_> air matresses are dumb
[19:04:09] <pyCube_> a classic example of, "well, it SEEMED like a good idea"
[19:04:58] <helf> hehe
[19:05:03] <helf> well, they DO save space ;)
[19:05:10] <helf> tekno, i made this one REALLY frim and it still sucked
[19:05:18] <pyCube_> less space than a simple hard floor?
[19:05:40] <helf> heh
[19:05:40] <Teknomancer> helf: yeah not as comfy as a proper bed,  but its not really meant as a bed replacement
[19:07:24] <helf> yeah, but jeez.. first time i have EVER woken up stiff with a sore back
[19:07:28] <helf> maybe its my age catching up ;)
[19:07:46] <pyCube_> hehe.. welcome to the rest of your life
[19:07:52] <helf> oh, thanks ;P
[19:08:16] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC
[19:08:54] *** pyCube has quit IRC
[19:09:15] *** mmu_man has quit IRC
[19:10:55] *** SchmedlyHaiku has joined #haiku
[19:11:28] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku
[19:11:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[19:11:41] *** frankps has joined #haiku
[19:14:36] * DeadYak plops mmu_man
[19:15:11] <helf> hey mmu_man
[19:16:08] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku
[19:16:43] *** mmu_man has quit IRC
[19:19:15] <stpere> burfi: are you Gabriele Biffi?
[19:21:37] <burfi> no
[19:22:07] *** Atomozero has joined #haiku
[19:22:14] *** frankps has quit IRC
[19:29:57] *** emitrax has joined #haiku
[19:30:35] <stpere> is berlios svn down?
[19:31:55] <DeadYak> seems up here
[19:32:18] <ddew|bofh> same here
[19:32:23] <stpere> hmm
[19:32:39] *** TuneTracker has joined #Haiku
[19:33:03] <stpere> svn+ssh, or anonymus svn?
[19:33:21] <DeadYak> well, I only actually tested the svn browser on berlios here since I can't get to my home box right now
[19:33:22] <Atomozero> stpere yes is down
[19:33:25] <DeadYak> I assume that uses anonymous
[19:33:40] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku
[19:33:49] <stpere> oh, last time, svn anonymous failed and the browser was still working
[19:33:54] <DeadYak> oh
[19:33:57] <DeadYak> didn't realize that
[19:34:03] <stpere> that's very weird
[19:38:06] <Al2O3_> gu
[19:38:07] <Al2O3_> hi there.
[19:38:18] <Al2O3_> I don't seem to be able to connect and check out to svn.berlios.de
[19:38:38] <Al2O3_> the last line of step #2 in http://www.haiku-os.org/documents/dev/building_haiku_on_ubuntu_linux_step_by_step
[19:38:39] <stpere> same here
[19:38:46] <Al2O3_> Connection refused
[19:38:53] <Al2O3_> anyone have thoughts on this.
[19:38:59] <ddew|bofh> they might be doing maintenance or something
[19:39:02] <Al2O3_> I'd like to build Haiku on Linux.
[19:39:04] <Al2O3_> oh
[19:39:13] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
[19:39:16] <stpere> the instructions are good, the server is down
[19:39:18] <Al2O3_> well, someone email them tell them we are waiting :)
[19:39:27] <Al2O3_> :)  heheeh, thanks, just wondering ;)
[19:39:33] <Al2O3_> will go play backgammon online for a bit instead.
[19:39:48] <Al2O3_> I have a question...  in the meantime.
[19:40:18] <helf> ANSWER IS NO
[19:40:32] <Al2O3_> great, thanks.
[19:40:34] <Al2O3_> by default.
[19:40:35] <helf> ^_^
[19:40:36] <helf> np
[19:40:39] <Al2O3_> helf, love me baby
[19:40:45] <helf> are you female?
[19:40:52] <Al2O3_> in your dreams maybe
[19:40:56] <helf> then bugger off
[19:40:57] <helf> :P
[19:41:00] <Al2O3_> but that is your problem :)
[19:41:04] <ddew|bofh> heh
[19:41:17] <Al2O3_> Way too much visual
[19:41:21] <stpere> what is your question?
[19:41:26] <Al2O3_> www.helftugjob.com
[19:41:29] <ddew|bofh> i'd say that's your problem too, had you been female you'd have his full attention :P
[19:41:37] <helf> :P
[19:41:54] <helf> too right
[19:41:55] <Al2O3_> damn, closet haiku :)
[19:42:10] <Al2O3_> I'm having very odd feelings about being here right now, strange in a way that is kind of exciting.
[19:42:18] <helf> :|
[19:42:28] <ddew|bofh> oh crap, hide the booze ;)
[19:42:30] <Al2O3_> (ok, enough of the 30 Rock parody)
[19:42:53] <ddew|bofh> heh
[19:42:54] <helf> reposte
[19:43:09] * ddew|bofh has been compiling all day and is starting to lose his mind
[19:43:14] <Al2O3_> ddew.
[19:43:15] <ddew|bofh> or what's left of it anyway
[19:43:31] <Al2O3_> what gives, why have you been compiling all day by hand?
[19:43:33] <helf> riposte
[19:43:34] <Al2O3_> and it doesn't work?
[19:43:35] <helf> i can never spell that right
[19:43:51] <ddew|bofh> been trying to get haiku self-hposting but it just refuses to give in
[19:44:02] <ddew|bofh> *self-hosting
[19:44:04] <Al2O3_> oh, ok.
[19:44:06] <ddew|bofh> makeinfo doesn't like me
[19:44:17] <helf> much like your mother
[19:44:20] <helf> BUUURN
[19:44:21] *** Euver has joined #haiku
[19:44:26] <Al2O3_> I'm just interested in building the distro on linux, with dev tools, and then install on a seperate drive on same said computer and boot into it.
[19:44:42] <helf> oh, I've yet to do that
[19:44:43] <ddew|bofh> that works perfectly
[19:44:43] <Al2O3_> or run it in Qemu on linux and access it via the VNC server of Qemu
[19:44:48] <Al2O3_> ok, great.
[19:44:55] <Al2O3_> I really need ot get to Haiku via vnc server.
[19:45:11] <Al2O3_> but I want to see the speed differences also between native harware, and the qemu emulator on linux.
[19:45:12] <ddew|bofh> qemu has that built-in so that should work
[19:45:20] <ddew|bofh> the difference is huge
[19:45:25] <Al2O3_> yes, have done it before, backin sept or so.
[19:45:43] <TuneTracker> Does anyone know if it's possible to run BeOS 5 under VMWare?
[19:45:45] <ddew|bofh> even vmware, which is fairly close to real hw, is much slower than a "proper" setup
[19:45:58] <ddew|bofh> TuneTracker: it's possible, but it takes some tweaks
[19:46:05] <TuneTracker> ddew|bofh What sort?
[19:46:17] <ddew|bofh> network, ps2 driver and graphics
[19:46:25] <TuneTracker> ddew|bofh Does sound work?
[19:46:29] <ddew|bofh> ps2 as in keyboard and mouse
[19:46:46] <ddew|bofh> last i checked sound could be coaxed into working
[19:47:02] <TuneTracker> sounds like it would be hackish at best
[19:47:21] <ddew|bofh> indeed, might've improved since i tried it though
[19:47:28] <TuneTracker> I have a potential customer who might want to run 15 to 30 instances of BeOS and TuneTracker via vmware on a blade server.
[19:47:46] <ddew|bofh> wow
[19:48:11] <ddew|bofh> that's a shedload of vms :)
[19:48:14] *** bombuzal has quit IRC
[19:48:35] <TuneTracker> needless to say, it'd have to all run pretty flawlessly.
[19:49:14] <ddew|bofh> obviously
[19:49:37] <TuneTracker> If they have to start hacking to get video and networking and sound to work... guess that wouldn't be the best bet for them  :-)
[19:49:59] <ddew|bofh> well, you can set up an install cd for them
[19:50:03] <TuneTracker> btw SB Liive is starting to work pretty darned good under Haiku now.
[19:50:04] <ddew|bofh> with the needed drivers included
[19:50:23] <TuneTracker> ddew|bofh Maybe a "vmware package" eh?
[19:50:37] <ddew|bofh> yeah
[19:50:44] <Teknomancer> would be great if Haiku ran on VirtualBox
[19:51:01] <TuneTracker> VirtualBox is a particularly good one?
[19:51:02] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku
[19:51:15] <DeadYak> VirtualBox is what Teknomancer works on if I'm not mistaken
[19:51:24] <DeadYak> Teknomancer: that's VBox's bug, not ours :)
[19:51:25] <Teknomancer> TuneTracker: its more lightweight than VMWare
[19:51:32] <TuneTracker> Teknomancer I see
[19:51:37] <TuneTracker> Teknomancer A bit quicker?
[19:51:50] * TuneTracker runs Haiku quite well natively now.
[19:51:56] <Teknomancer> TuneTracker: performance is comparable to VMware
[19:52:00] <TuneTracker> k
[19:52:18] <ddew|bofh> vbox works great if you have hardware that does virtualization
[19:52:19] <TuneTracker> I would pay good money if I could come up with a solution for this customer.
[19:52:25] <ddew|bofh> so pretty much any newer cpu :)
[19:52:46] <DeadYak> yeah, vbox will run haiku if you have hardware VT support
[19:52:49] <DeadYak> not without it though
[19:53:03] <TuneTracker> VT stands for...  ?  (virtual terminal?)
[19:53:13] <DeadYak> VT = hardware virtualization
[19:53:15] <Teknomancer> I tried vbox+haiku with hwacc .. didn't work
[19:53:43] <Teknomancer> i only tried the haiku vdi file on haikuware though,  not sure how old that is
[19:54:44] <ddew|bofh> turning hw acceleration on in vbox is gnarly
[19:55:12] <ddew|bofh> not only do you have to enable it for the vm, you also have to enable it globally which for some odd reason is disabled by default
[19:56:25] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
[19:58:08] <Teknomancer> the global setting can be overriden in the VM setting, and its disabled by default as we currently run faster on most guests without it
[20:01:04] <leszek> re
[20:01:46] *** bombuzal has joined #haiku
[20:01:58] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[20:07:50] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku
[20:07:58] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC
[20:07:59] *** jiuda_D`arkness is now known as Barrett666
[20:08:06] <Lelldorin1> hi all
[20:08:25] <Lelldorin1> anyone can explain me how to get the image size of a picture using the terminal?
[20:08:48] *** Tonik is now known as Jesus
[20:12:56] <Al2O3> TuneTracker: I have not heard that BeOS runs reliably under VMWare
[20:13:06] <Al2O3> I believe I tried a number of months ago without success.
[20:13:42] <Atomozero> stpere berilios is up now :)
[20:14:07] <Begasus> is there any DT_UNKNOWN stuff that can be used in BeOS?
[20:14:16] <stpere> thx
[20:14:45] <DeadYak> DT_UNKNOWN.... related to dlsym() by any chance?
[20:14:56] <Begasus> rather to d_type I think
[20:15:34] <Teknomancer> dirent type?
[20:16:23] <Begasus> sec
[20:16:59] <DeadYak> yeah, that's what it is
[20:17:10] <DeadYak> it's the entry type returned by readdir()
[20:17:21] <DeadYak> not sure if BeOS defines DT_UNKNOWN or not though
[20:17:36] <Begasus> http://tuxpaint.cvs.sourceforge.net/tuxpaint/tuxpaint/src/dirwalk.c?revision=1.10&view=markup
[20:17:51] <Begasus> starts at line 217
[20:18:21] <Begasus> getting a warning that it doesn't see DT_UNKNOWN ...
[20:18:29] <DeadYak> Begasus: yeah, BeOS probably doesn't define it
[20:18:30] <stpere> can I enhance the network preference application or is it reserved for SoC?
[20:18:37] <DeadYak> otherwise it should see it from the header
[20:18:59] <DeadYak> Begasus: it can work without it though by the looks of it
[20:19:11] <Begasus> yeah it compiles and works fine
[20:19:16] *** MrSunshine_ has joined #haiku
[20:19:19] <Begasus> just going through the warnings atm ;)
[20:20:39] *** wildur has joined #Haiku
[20:23:46] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku
[20:23:56] <Teknomancer> nite all
[20:23:57] *** Teknomancer has left #haiku
[20:25:06] *** Schmedly3D has joined #haiku
[20:27:54] *** Wiss has quit IRC
[20:30:10] *** Schmedly3D has left #haiku
[20:30:52] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
[20:32:44] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku
[20:33:05] *** Atomozero is now known as Atomo_Cena
[20:33:06] <CIA-47> korli * r24754 /haiku/vendor/acpica/current/ (210 files in 15 dirs): updated acpica with version 20080321
[20:34:32] *** aljen has joined #haiku
[20:34:33] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC
[20:34:34] <aljen> hey
[20:34:35] <CIA-47> korli * r24755 /haiku/vendor/acpica/20080321/: tagging acpica-20080321
[20:35:40] *** bSON has quit IRC
[20:35:56] <ddew|bofh> hiya
[20:36:10] <ddew|bofh> what's acpica?
[20:37:03] <DeadYak> that's Intel's ACPI reference implementation
[20:37:08] <DeadYak> it's the basis of Haiku's ACPI bus manager
[20:37:37] <ddew|bofh> neato
[20:37:45] <DeadYak> look like he's prepping to update it to the latest
[20:37:46] <ddew|bofh> acpi ftw
[20:38:56] <aljen> anybody have that same error ? svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused
[20:39:12] <ddew|bofh> yeah
[20:39:15] <luroh> yup
[20:39:32] <aljen> ah thx :)
[20:42:12] *** Jesus is now known as Tonik
[20:47:54] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC
[20:48:42] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku
[20:48:53] *** TheNerd has joined #haiku
[20:52:05] *** daste has quit IRC
[20:54:39] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku
[20:58:01] *** oco has joined #haiku
[21:03:15] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku
[21:04:12] *** TheNerd__ has quit IRC
[21:07:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil
[21:08:49] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
[21:11:08] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[21:11:09] *** tqh has quit IRC
[21:11:12] *** geist has quit IRC
[21:11:13] *** surrounder has quit IRC
[21:13:19] *** geist has joined #haiku
[21:13:19] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o geist
[21:14:37] *** tqh has joined #haiku
[21:14:37] *** surrounder has joined #haiku
[21:14:57] * JonathanThompson meows like a burmese python into the channel
[21:15:34] * tqh thinks it sounded more like a woff.
[21:15:35] *** surrounder has quit IRC
[21:15:44] *** surrounder has joined #haiku
[21:16:44] * tqh thinks meow like this http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/01/17/funny-pictures-meow-meow-uh-meowf/
[21:17:00] <JonathanThompson> :)
[21:18:02] <CIA-47> julun * r24756 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/posix/ (grp.cpp pwd.cpp user_group_common.cpp): * gcc4 build fix
[21:20:16] *** clsk has joined #haiku
[21:20:48] *** AndrevS has joined #haiku
[21:24:48] *** omegaman has joined #haiku
[21:25:11] <omegaman> does the latest gcc work in haiku?
[21:25:56] *** mats has joined #haiku
[21:26:01] <DeadYak> define "latest"
[21:26:11] <DeadYak> gcc4 hasn't been ported yet if you're referring to that
[21:26:15] <DeadYak> only gcc2 at this point
[21:26:21] <omegaman> ouch
[21:26:44] <DeadYak> I believe he was going to do gcc4 next once he's got all the tools done for v2
[21:28:23] <omegaman> he?
[21:28:32] <DeadYak> Ingo
[21:28:39] <omegaman> ok, thanks
[21:28:43] <JonathanThompson> He-who-must-not-be-renamed...
[21:28:51] <DeadYak> by "work in Haiku" I assume you mean run it on Haiku, not compile Haiku with it
[21:29:00] <omegaman> correct
[21:29:03] <DeadYak> yeah
[21:29:05] *** leszek has quit IRC
[21:29:16] <DeadYak> he's finishing up all the gcc2-related tools first, then moving on to gcc4
[21:29:51] *** Al2O3_ has joined #haiku
[21:36:26] *** Al2O3 has quit IRC
[21:48:30] *** Atomo_Cena is now known as AtomoZero
[21:49:52] *** MichaelHenry has joined #haiku
[21:50:07] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC
[21:50:47] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku
[21:50:52] *** Enauv has joined #haiku
[21:51:06] <Enauv> haiku may be self-hosting, but their svn hosting?
[21:51:09] <Enauv> nuh-uh.
[21:51:15] <Begasus> hehe
[21:51:21] <Begasus> you can't have it all ;)
[21:51:38] <JonathanThompson> Sure you can: you'll just need a lot of antacid tablets after you've done so ;)
[21:51:53] * tqh never suspected that Ingo was Voldemort
[21:52:16] <Begasus> lol
[21:52:17] <JonathanThompson> You misread, tqh :)
[21:52:25] <JonathanThompson> Read it again!
[21:52:27] <tqh> ah renamed :)
[21:52:40] * JonathanThompson notes his comment failed tq
[21:52:41] <pyCube_> moldywart?
[21:52:48] <Begasus> eeps
[21:52:50] <pyCube_> eew
[21:52:51] * JonathanThompson notes his comment failed in tqh's spellcheck
[21:52:51] <Begasus> ;)
[21:52:54] *** Al2O3 has joined #haiku
[21:53:47] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC
[21:54:21] * JonathanThompson hands tqh a spewcheck for future food tasting purposes
[21:55:19] <Al2O3> 'spew' check?
[21:55:25] <Al2O3> Jonathan, what up with that, chunking?
[21:55:28] <JonathanThompson> That's what taste-testers do :D
[21:56:21] <Al2O3> nice
[21:57:51] *** Al2O3_ has quit IRC
[21:57:54] <MichaelHenry> hey guys
[21:58:01] <Lelldorin1> hi
[21:58:09] <MichaelHenry> I have a wierd issue with beshare
[21:58:28] <MichaelHenry> it's happened on my beosmax laptop and my zeta 1.5 desktop
[21:58:41] <MichaelHenry> "Error: can't create connect thread"
[21:59:00] <JonathanThompson> Chances are you need to restart Net_Server.
[21:59:15] <MichaelHenry> googled it and the only thing i came up with was the muscle source
[21:59:18] <MichaelHenry> ok
[21:59:27] * tqh don't get it(TM)
[21:59:37] <MichaelHenry> now i have restarted networking is that the same
[21:59:38] <JonathanThompson> IIRC you'll need to also restart BeShare from scratch.
[21:59:43] <JonathanThompson> Yes.
[22:00:09] <MichaelHenry> you have had this error
[22:00:18] <JonathanThompson> It's been awhile :)
[22:00:25] <JonathanThompson> (Been on IRC for a bit now)
[22:01:37] <MichaelHenry> yeah, i figured but there is still a lot of old programs that aren't on bebits that I can find on beshare
[22:04:08] *** SchmedlyHaiku has quit IRC
[22:04:11] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku
[22:04:35] *** vbmithr has joined #haiku
[22:04:38] *** Thom_Holwerda has quit IRC
[22:06:49] *** skoe has joined #haiku
[22:07:16] <Al2O3> curious, is it often the source repository site is down?
[22:07:30] *** Stargater has joined #haiku
[22:07:32] <Stargater> hi
[22:07:37] <DeadYak> off and on, depends on them doing maintenance
[22:07:46] <Enauv> berlios = unstable
[22:07:55] <Enauv> compared to google code / sourceforge
[22:07:57] <Al2O3> hey there dead.  :(  enauv
[22:08:13] <Al2O3> has it been discussed to move to something more 'stable'
[22:08:21] <Al2O3> ie, not down for 2-3+ hours at a time.
[22:08:36] <Enauv> self hosting, p'raps?
[22:08:58] <Al2O3> would seem good for the project image to be with something stable, and it would also seem there are plenty of other options free that are stable.
[22:09:01] <Al2O3> just curious.
[22:09:15] <Al2O3> seems silly to be on unstable hosting when there are so many options available.
[22:09:16] <DeadYak> actually, the reason it moved to berlios in the first place was because sourceforge was being down for days on end and stuff like that at the time
[22:09:23] <Al2O3> wow
[22:09:27] <DeadYak> this was a few years ago though
[22:09:30] <Al2O3> yah
[22:09:33] <Al2O3> now that has changed?
[22:09:38] <Begasus> they haven't been that long with berlios to start with .. :P
[22:09:38] <DeadYak> I have no idea
[22:10:03] <Al2O3> Begasus, how long (there are a lot of wagging tongues here)
[22:10:57] <Begasus> if you google for it I'm sure the info should pop up ...
[22:11:03] <Begasus> can't tell out of my head
[22:11:07] *** skoe has quit IRC
[22:11:13] <DeadYak> 2-3 years I think
[22:11:22] <Enauv> can I set a default target for jam?
[22:11:23] <tqh> sourceforge is almost never working right here.
[22:11:31] <Enauv> typing 'jam haiku-vmware-image' is annoying
[22:11:36] <Enauv> tqh, really?
[22:11:39] <Enauv> how about google code?
[22:11:57] <tqh> don't deal much with google code, but their web seems to work fine.
[22:12:31] *** Thom_Holwerda has joined #haiku
[22:12:41] <Enauv> seriously, anything wrong with google code?
[22:12:47] <Al2O3> enauv, can you alias that in your .bashrc
[22:12:53] <Enauv> Especially since Haiku, inc bought it
[22:12:59] <Al2O3> alias doit='blah blah'
[22:13:00] <Enauv> A1203 yea, but..
[22:13:03] <DeadYak> bought what?
[22:13:09] <Enauv> google
[22:13:12] <DeadYak> oh
[22:13:18] <Enauv> yea
[22:13:22] <Enauv> been a long time coming
[22:13:32] <DeadYak> the thing that worries me about Google Code is I'm not sure what their policy is with respect to code that's checked in there
[22:13:36] <tqh> ah, but we just wanted their sofas.
[22:13:47] <DeadYak> given how all of Google's other services have some clause about how they can retain/use your data
[22:13:49] <tqh> So we can setup a new codycam
[22:13:50] <Enauv> DeadYak, I think it has to be a 'free' license
[22:13:57] <DeadYak> that's not what I'm worried about
[22:14:07] <Al2O3> Dead, they assimilate the rights to everything, and sell it and your name to the CIA
[22:14:10] <Enauv> well, if it's free they can use it all they want anyway
[22:14:30] <Enauv> did a big change happen to SMP recently?
[22:14:41] <Enauv> my processor just got really weird
[22:14:42] *** pfoetchen has joined #haiku
[22:14:46] <Enauv> keep in mind, this is vmware, so...
[22:14:57] <DeadYak> not that I'm aware of
[22:15:41] <DeadYak> moving repositories and keeping the svn history isn't a trivial op though
[22:15:48] *** vbmithr has quit IRC
[22:16:27] <Enauv> any way to capture stderr output?
[22:16:32] <Enauv> into a pipe, I mean
[22:16:41] <DeadYak> blah > file 2>&1
[22:17:03] <DeadYak> if you want both to go to the same file anyways
[22:17:06] <DeadYak> 2> someplacelse otherwise
[22:17:34] <Enauv> nifty
[22:17:35] <Enauv> thanks
[22:17:38] <DeadYak> np
[22:18:00] *** Korli has joined #haiku
[22:18:01] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Korli
[22:18:02] <aljen> Enauv: app 2>&1 | tee app.log
[22:18:16] <DeadYak> that's another way
[22:18:24] * Enauv never knew what tee did
[22:19:01] <DeadYak> read from standard input and write to standard output along with a file :)
[22:19:09] <DeadYak> pretty simple little tool
[22:19:44] * Enauv is pretty quickly becoming a unix geek
[22:19:54] <Enauv> find is kick ass
[22:20:29] * DeadYak pets locate
[22:20:36] <DeadYak> albeit in different cases
[22:20:55] <DeadYak> anyways, bbl
[22:21:01] *** DeadYak has quit IRC
[22:21:04] * tqh pets query
[22:21:42] *** tqh has quit IRC
[22:25:09] <Enauv> yea, but with find you can do a `find . -exec grep "sys_errlist" "{}" \; -print`
[22:25:32] <Enauv> which is essentially a find . -print0 | xargs -0 grep "sys_errlist"
[22:25:49] *** El-Al has joined #haiku
[22:29:16] <Lelldorin1> n8all
[22:29:22] <stpere> night
[22:29:27] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC
[22:29:37] <Enauv> good god; I just found this piece of code: http://pastie.caboo.se/174337
[22:29:45] <CIA-47> bonefish * r24757 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
[22:29:45] <CIA-47> Added a new fancy build system feature called "build profiles".
[22:29:45] <CIA-47> Especially people building various kinds of images with different
[22:29:45] <CIA-47> settings may want to have a look at the respective section in the
[22:29:45] <CIA-47> UserBuildConfig.ReadMe.
[22:30:41] <Enauv> how can he commit?
[22:32:06] <El-Al> did I read somewhere that after a recent revision, one has to do a build tools ./configure? Soz, been moving house so I'm a little out of the loop :)
[22:32:12] *** Wiss has joined #haiku
[22:32:51] <El-Al> berlios.de down too ?
[22:33:30] *** ozy` has quit IRC
[22:33:53] <El-Al> hmmm...am I even in the right channel? :D
[22:34:04] <Enauv> yes
[22:34:55] <Begasus> going down here ...
[22:34:57] <Begasus> g'night peeps
[22:36:10] * Enauv just lost the game
[22:36:49] <MindChild> I lost my mind. Can you help me find it?
[22:38:43] *** dr_evil has quit IRC
[22:38:59] <Enauv> MindChild, yea, I have it in my pocket here
[22:39:10] *** Begasus has quit IRC
[22:39:35] *** Euver has quit IRC
[22:42:47] <MindChild> Enauv: Ill trade you for this scsi3 drive that sounds like a dying crow
[22:43:22] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku
[22:43:22] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[22:43:31] <Enauv> no, but for a red paperclip I'll give me soul...
[22:43:52] <Enauv> you know, noone has ever tried trading a house down to a  paperclip
[22:48:14] <Enauv> mmu_man, what's your favorite malloc?
[22:48:41] <Enauv> and, though you may not know this, which does haiku use?
[22:49:08] <Al2O3> El-Al: berlios.de has been down since about 4 hours ago.
[22:49:26] <Al2O3> still waiting to checkout  source build in linux of Haiku :(
[22:49:47] <Al2O3> even emailed the whois contact and let the know, just in case they don't.
[22:52:02] *** dchis has joined #haiku
[22:53:43] <Enauv> there should be an svn mirror
[22:53:49] <mmu_man> re
[22:54:16] <mmu_man> Enauv one that works
[22:55:32] <Enauv> c'mon
[22:55:34] <Enauv> WORK
[22:55:54] <Enauv> how can I play hangman?
[22:56:01] <mmu_man> F12
[22:56:03] <mmu_man> kdlhangman
[22:57:30] *** Ingenu has quit IRC
[22:58:57] <CIA-47> korli * r24758 /haiku/trunk/ (12 files in 2 dirs): updated libpng to 1.2.26
[22:58:59] *** DeadYak has joined #haiku
[23:01:49] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC
[23:04:09] <Enauv> huh
[23:04:10] <Enauv> doesn't work
[23:09:11] *** El-Al has quit IRC
[23:11:15] *** Barrett666 has quit IRC
[23:15:56] *** MauriceK has quit IRC
[23:16:08] *** skoe has joined #haiku
[23:20:26] *** zlominus has joined #haiku
[23:22:33] *** DaaT has joined #haiku
[23:23:05] <DaaT> Thom_Holwerda, cheer!
[23:23:18] <DeadYak> cheer?
[23:23:24] * DeadYak wedgies DaaT
[23:23:57] * DaaT noogies DeadYak
[23:25:28] *** Enauv has quit IRC
[23:25:35] <zlominus> anyone know does svn on berlios works? Is it just me or it is refusing connections ?
[23:25:46] <zlominus> *work
[23:26:09] <DeadYak> it works on svn+ssh, no idea about anonymous
[23:26:22] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC
[23:27:23] <zlominus> yes I'm using anonymous access, hmm ... strange
[23:27:26] *** pfoetchen has quit IRC
[23:27:53] *** shakma has joined #haiku
[23:28:11] <shakma> hi all
[23:28:13] <shakma> quick question
[23:28:22] <shakma> I can't connect to the svn repo @ svn.berlios.de?
[23:28:28] <shakma> known issue?
[23:28:28] <DeadYak> it's down
[23:28:31] *** DHowet1 has joined #haiku
[23:28:37] <shakma> righty
[23:28:44] <shakma> are there mirrors up?
[23:28:58] <DeadYak> not that I'm aware of
[23:29:10] <shakma> shame
[23:30:19] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku
[23:34:15] *** shakma has quit IRC
[23:35:30] *** ddd_ has joined #haiku
[23:35:46] <ddd_> hello
[23:35:55] <ddd_> is the berlios svn down?
[23:36:00] <DeadYak> yes.
[23:36:24] <DHowet1> =[
[23:36:44] <ddd_> how long do those downtimes last usually?
[23:36:53] <emitrax> I just ran an update of my svn copy actually
[23:37:00] <DeadYak> emitrax: svn+ssh works
[23:37:02] <DeadYak> anon does not.
[23:37:11] <emitrax> ah ok
[23:37:16] <emitrax> sorry :)
[23:37:19] <DeadYak> np :)
[23:38:18] <stpere> I propose we modify the topic when we notice svn is down :)
[23:38:50] <stpere> not that it's that long to answer ppl
[23:40:08] *** DHowet1 has quit IRC
[23:40:50] *** omegaman has quit IRC
[23:41:01] <skoe> Mornin'
[23:41:27] *** ddd_ has quit IRC
[23:41:27] *** DaaT has quit IRC
[23:41:27] *** dchis has quit IRC
[23:41:28] *** Thom_Holwerda has quit IRC
[23:41:31] *** cherry` has quit IRC
[23:41:33] *** bhy has quit IRC
[23:41:34] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC
[23:41:37] *** thorn__ has quit IRC
[23:41:38] *** procton has quit IRC
[23:42:36] <stpere> morning skoe
[23:43:43] *** ddd_ has joined #haiku
[23:43:43] *** DaaT has joined #haiku
[23:43:43] *** dchis has joined #haiku
[23:43:43] *** Thom_Holwerda has joined #haiku
[23:43:43] *** cherry` has joined #haiku
[23:43:43] *** bhy has joined #haiku
[23:43:43] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku
[23:43:43] *** thorn__ has joined #haiku
[23:43:43] *** procton has joined #haiku
[23:50:21] *** plfiorini has joined #haiku
[23:52:22] *** ddd_ has quit IRC
[23:52:35] *** ddd_ has joined #haiku
[23:53:30] *** zlominus has quit IRC
[23:53:46] *** zlominus has joined #haiku
[23:54:34] *** AtomoZero is now known as Atomo_Cena
[23:54:40] *** Atomo_Cena is now known as Atomo_Letto

   April 2, 2008  
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | >