April 27, 2007 
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April 27, 2007 [00:00:16] <AndyBe> geist: you up?[00:00:19] <DaaT> nutela: i have call of duty 3 and it's fun[00:00:26] <DaaT> it takes getting used to, at first[00:00:27] <Vernaldo> nutela: as I said, it's less accurate. But it doesn't matter cuz it's more fun[00:00:31] <DaaT> since it's a new way to play[00:00:47] <nutela> When will someone finish a decent audio suite for BeOS? I'm dying to arange some music for like I hear in those games[00:01:03] <nutela> less acurate then what?[00:01:34] <nutela> has anyone played a fps with a joystick? That's really crap control[00:01:37] <Vernaldo> less accurate than a mouse[00:01:58] <Vernaldo> less accurate than a joystick[00:02:02] <nutela> less accurate then a gun?[00:02:16] <nutela> I don't believe that Vernaldo[00:02:29] <DeadYak> the Wiimote's accuracy is great imo[00:02:32] <Vernaldo> less accurate than a gun in my hands[00:02:39] <nutela> I read at IGN that it sure is a lot better than analog control[00:03:06] <nutela> Vernaldo not suffering from Parkinson? ;-)[00:03:09] <DeadYak> it depends on how the game uses it really, the thing's capable of very high precision, a lot of games just choose to allow a more broad range of motion[00:03:13] <AndyBe> geist: the GLTeapot overheat the kernel so that the appserver doesn't answer.... your still working on threading?[00:03:26] <nutela> lol[00:03:56] <nutela> I had athe gamecube[00:04:06] <nutela> crap this new keyboard[00:04:38] <nutela> and played on the n64,, I believe nintendo makes very solid stuff, not like Sonny[00:05:38] <AndyBe> geist: or it is the appserver it self, don't know to make about that a "ticket" - how to call it.[00:06:16] <Vernaldo> bbl[00:06:23] <nutela> well I'm going to sleep[00:06:36] <Ithamar> same here, got to do a lot of coding this weekend :P[00:06:39] <LiquidQuartz> bye![00:06:54] <Ithamar> later ppl, hope to be online a little more this weekend ;)[00:06:59] <nutela> nice talking to you all, I'm glad the Haiku usb stack is useable! yay[00:07:13] <nutela> bye[00:07:14] *** nutela has quit IRC[00:07:20] <Ithamar> g'night![00:07:21] <DaaT> night Ithamar[00:07:24] <DaaT> see you next week[00:07:27] <AndyBe> night[00:07:34] *** Ithamar has left #haiku[00:07:43] *** AndyBe has left #haiku[00:07:56] <mmu_man> hmm with a SetTargetForItems() it would work better[00:09:31] <Vernaldo> dang it. haiku.image file doesn't seem to = haiku.raw[00:09:51] *** Mazon is now known as mazon[00:09:54] <Vernaldo> I wonder if it is possible to convert[00:10:57] <geist> damn builds[00:11:04] <mmu_man> and if I call the function it might even work too[00:11:16] <mmu_man> Vernaldo it is a raw image[00:11:32] *** MYOB has quit IRC[00:11:35] <mmu_man> but of a partition, not a disk (= doesn't include partition table) so some apps might get confused at it[00:11:47] <mmu_man> but it works fine with qemu directly...[00:11:55] <CIA-18> korli * r20847 /haiku/trunk/ (16 files in 2 dirs):[00:11:55] <CIA-18> updated bzip2 to 1.0.4[00:11:55] <CIA-18> added bzip2 and bunzip2 to the image[00:13:35] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: I manually edited the .qvm file and changed it to my downloaded image. I renamed haiku.image to haiku.raw and put it inside the .qvm (which is a directory).[00:14:51] <Vernaldo> there's a configuration.plist, with a line <string> -m 128 -localtime -net nic -net user -smb ~/Desktop/Q Shared Files/ -hda Harddisk_1.qcow -cdrom /dev/cdrom -boot c </string>[00:16:18] <Vernaldo> I removed the Harddisk_1.qcow file, and instead put in the haiku.image file. (I renamed haiku.image to haiku.raw)[00:16:56] <Vernaldo> I'm gonna see if there's a command line qemu for osx. I've had it with this gui-wy leewee[00:20:37] <mmu_man> that string is teh qemu actual command line arguments[00:22:12] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: I figure that, that's why I highlighted it[00:22:16] <Vernaldo> highlighted[00:22:19] <Vernaldo> bah[00:23:13] *** kr1stof has left #haiku[00:27:20] <mmu_man> of course if I use the correct return value...[00:27:25] <mmu_man> it might also work[00:27:30] <pyCube> heh..[00:27:50] <mmu_man> status_t not bool :)[00:28:01] <Vernaldo> ok i downloaded qemu vanilla[00:28:38] <mmu_man> hmm it might have worked if you had stripped that -boot c[00:28:39] <Vernaldo> ...and it crashed "qemu: could not load PC bios '/sw/share/qemu/bios.bin'"[00:28:51] <mmu_man> it probably forced it to look for a partition table[00:29:14] <Vernaldo> I'm gonna pay attention. There must be a specific command line[00:29:56] <mmu_man> just edit that .plist thingy and just put this:[00:30:07] <mmu_man> <string> -m 128 -localtime -net nic -net user haiku.image </string[00:30:44] <Vernaldo> will try. brb[00:30:55] <mmu_man> IT'S WORKING IT'S WORKING[00:31:01] <mmu_man> got toolbar working in XEmacs :)[00:31:29] <kokito> screenie mmu_man[00:31:40] <mmu_man> well same as last one[00:31:55] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_zeta_pretty_toolbar_speedbar_scrollbar.png[00:33:18] <kokito> what's the excitement about then mmu_man ? :P[00:33:43] <mmu_man> well they do work when you click them now :)[00:34:38] *** pikapika has quit IRC[00:34:58] <Vernaldo> woohoo![00:35:32] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: (actually, woohoo for you) this isn't working yet[00:36:11] *** rhu has joined #haiku[00:38:03] <mmu_man> looper must be locked before proceeding[00:38:05] <mmu_man> hmm :)[00:38:58] <kokito> ah! ok mmu_man. LOL[00:40:45] <mmu_man> that should fix it...[00:42:42] <mmu_man> kokito did you know I fixed Unicode input in XEmacs ?[00:42:47] <mmu_man> it now accepts accented chars :)[00:42:56] <Vernaldo> at least now I'm getting an error message inside the proggie... qemu: could not load PC bios '/sw/share/qemu/bios.bin'[00:42:59] <mmu_man> should also accept IM though it doesn't integrate it yet[00:43:11] <Vernaldo> http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=haikuerrorru1.png[00:43:24] <mmu_man> probably bad paths[00:43:27] <kokito> mmu_man, I think I recall mentioned that in the past. would it work with double-byte chars too?[00:43:31] <Vernaldo> discard the message "qemu: could not load.."[00:44:10] <mmu_man> hmm still crashing[00:44:39] <mmu_man> kokito XEmacs has its own internal encoding, but it can understand most of UTF-8[00:44:40] <Vernaldo> should there be a separate boot image? as in the zeta livecd?[00:44:50] <mmu_man> no the image is bootable[00:45:05] <mmu_man> ah nice one there[00:45:06] <mmu_man> assert(Attempted non-local exit from within redisplay without being properly wrapped) failed line 1481 of /Data/xemacs/xemacs-21.5/src/eval.c[00:45:15] * Vernaldo scratches head[00:45:59] <Vernaldo> I give up for now. bbl[00:46:43] <Vernaldo> btw: console error: 2007-04-26 16:38:43.219 qemu-control[12509] error: qemu: could not open hard disk image '/Users/user/Documents/QEMU/Haikki.qvm/Harddisk_1.raw '[00:47:29] <Vernaldo> i'm gonna checksum the image.[00:47:30] <Vernaldo> bbl[00:51:04] <Vernaldo> I'm gonna check md5, then test on qemu on linux, then download other nightly. c ya.[00:51:47] <kokito> mmu_man, is is double-byte enabled? if you had a Haiku binary, I could try it here. :)[00:51:49] <kokito> bbl[00:52:02] <mmu_man> what do you mean ?[00:52:06] <mmu_man> it won't work in Haiku[00:52:17] <mmu_man> until I can dump it from Haiku[00:52:24] <mmu_man> it's build process is ... scary[00:53:45] <Vernaldo> file checksums ok[00:53:53] <Vernaldo> :-\[00:55:10] *** wildur_ has quit IRC[01:01:13] *** guildencrantz has quit IRC[01:03:05] <mmu_man> ah, think I found why it doesn't work on toolbar change[01:03:14] <mmu_man> need to set target for items again[01:11:25] *** umccullough_work has joined #haiku[01:12:02] <mmu_man> yes, did it[01:17:49] *** sarcas has quit IRC[01:21:18] *** brycegroff has joined #haiku[01:22:28] <brycegroff> Aloha, I was just buiding the source on redhat and I noticed that message.cpp was using isupper, but not include ctype.h. This for me was causing libbe to not build[01:22:57] <mmu_man> it shouldn't matter[01:23:13] <mmu_man> you must use a cross compiler and build with our headers[01:23:45] <brycegroff> I am using the cross compiler, and adding the line seemed to work[01:24:00] <mmu_man> gcc4 ?[01:24:05] <brycegroff> 2.9[01:25:09] <brycegroff> its very possible I am missing something but I got the image to build by adding ctype.h[01:25:54] <mmu_man> [revol@Zeta /Data/haiku/trunk]# grep ctype src/kits/app/Message.cpp[01:25:54] <mmu_man> #include <ctype.h>[01:26:00] <mmu_man> it's in already[01:26:04] <brycegroff> huh[01:26:16] <brycegroff> let me take a look at mine[01:26:16] <mmu_man> sure you have latest svn ?[01:26:23] <brycegroff> just checked out[01:27:36] <mmu_man> hmmm BMenu::AddList() with an empty list returns false...[01:28:12] <brycegroff> The only deffinition of ctype in my message.cpp was the one I added[01:28:14] <brycegroff> very strange[01:28:21] <brycegroff> oh[01:28:22] <brycegroff> well[01:29:37] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[01:30:36] <mmu_man> odd indeed :)[01:31:52] *** the_webers_inc has joined #haiku[01:32:13] <brycegroff> how does the build script choose what Message.cpp to use? or I guess a better question is what Message.cpp does the build use[01:32:28] <umccullough_work> it's failing on libbe_build right?[01:32:32] <brycegroff> yeah[01:32:37] <umccullough_work> i think the source is maintained separate for that isn't it?[01:32:49] <mmu_man> oh you mean in an other file ?[01:32:56] <brycegroff> ? I am really new to haiku and its build system[01:33:02] <umccullough_work> i think it's somewhere in tests or something[01:33:10] <mmu_man> yes it's a stripped down version of the BeAPI for linux[01:33:16] <mmu_man> to allow building the build tools :)[01:33:22] <brycegroff> well arnt the Message.cpp somewhere in kits/app or something[01:33:22] <umccullough_work> it's required for some of the tools that build the binaries/image[01:33:34] <brycegroff> and there are multiple versions of the Message[01:33:47] <umccullough_work> brycegroff, there's a 'custom' version of libbe and libroot used only for build purposes...[01:33:51] <brycegroff> OOOOHHHHHH[01:34:11] <umccullough_work> they're created as libbe_build.so and libroot_build.so[01:34:25] <umccullough_work> and they use the host compiler and headers[01:34:41] <brycegroff> ok[01:34:56] <umccullough_work> looks like they're in src/build[01:35:27] <brycegroff> yup[01:35:38] <brycegroff> and that Message.cpp doesnt include ctype.h[01:35:49] *** nohope has left #haiku[01:35:58] <brycegroff> I dont know if this is a problem[01:36:06] <brycegroff> but it was for me (:[01:36:15] <umccullough_work> it seems to work on other linux'es[01:36:23] <umccullough_work> ubuntu for example[01:36:42] <brycegroff> huh[01:37:02] <brycegroff> is it because the compiler add's the std deff's for you?[01:37:20] <umccullough_work> this is approximately where my knowledge of the issue ends :D[01:37:28] <brycegroff> ha[01:37:29] <umccullough_work> sorry :P[01:37:42] <brycegroff> well good work on getting haiku on osnews 50000 times[01:37:45] <umccullough_work> Ingo might be able to help on the mailing list[01:37:55] <umccullough_work> brycegroff, lol... thanks ;)[01:38:02] <brycegroff> yeah I was gonna post there after I talked to you guys first[01:38:05] <umccullough_work> i only got the webserver thing on there[01:38:21] <brycegroff> yeah[01:38:26] <umccullough_work> but even that was unintentional[01:38:38] <umccullough_work> yep, definitely hit the mailing list next[01:38:39] <brycegroff> there digging for things to talk about[01:39:29] <brycegroff> because I dont think that adding it will affect things[01:40:00] <umccullough_work> maybe not...i actually seem to recall some similar issue when i was attempting to build on cygwin, but it was relatively easy to overcome[01:40:23] <umccullough_work> like it was something tweakable in the BeOSCompability.h[01:40:37] <umccullough_work> of course, i spelled that wrong[01:41:06] <brycegroff> ha[01:41:37] <umccullough_work> BeOSBuildCompatibility.h that is[01:41:47] <brycegroff> I would belive you either way[01:41:53] <brycegroff> (:[01:42:54] <umccullough_work> no, actually - looking at Message.cpp - i DO recall hacking that[01:43:07] <brycegroff> ok so mabye we should get ctype.h in there[01:43:18] <brycegroff> how is the cygwin build doing?[01:43:23] <umccullough_work> i gave up[01:43:29] <brycegroff> yeah[01:43:44] <umccullough_work> compiled ok - but apps like rc and setattr just failed with no console output[01:43:49] <umccullough_work> i never dug any deeper[01:44:04] <brycegroff> its a pretty big project to port a build system[01:44:40] <umccullough_work> after hacking all the various compiler/linker flags to work on cygwin, i figured either 1) i screwed something up, or 2) PE wasn't gonna work and it was doomed to only function with ELF[01:45:24] <brycegroff> huh[01:45:30] <umccullough_work> i might check again using the latest cygwin packages - i got the impression there are a lot of outstanding gcc/binutils bugs in cygwin still[01:45:51] <umccullough_work> but in the grand scheme of things, as soon as Haiku self-hosts it won't really matter[01:46:10] <brycegroff> yup, getting closer and closer[01:49:59] <ddew|bofh> define close :)[01:50:23] <ddew|bofh> 6-months close or decade close? :P[01:51:01] *** Anxiety has quit IRC[01:52:32] <brycegroff> asking the wrong person[01:52:46] <brycegroff> just closer[01:53:28] <ddew|bofh> hehe[01:53:28] *** pyCube has quit IRC[01:53:53] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[01:55:23] <mmu_man> aw, M-x gnus-group-list-active takes quite some time :)[01:58:59] *** Master199 has quit IRC[02:04:00] <joejaxx> mmu_man: is makebootable called by install-haiku?[02:04:06] <mmu_man> it should be[02:04:26] <joejaxx> mmu_man: basically i am using this for the grub args[02:04:30] <joejaxx> mmu_man: http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#Chain_002dloading[02:04:39] <joejaxx> those three args[02:08:09] *** TTRanger has quit IRC[02:09:36] *** Betabel has joined #haiku[02:12:29] <umccullough_work> joejaxx, does it not find the boot block?[02:12:46] <umccullough_work> ugh, i gotta leave... ttyl[02:12:50] *** umccullough_work has quit IRC[02:14:34] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC[02:32:56] *** brycegroff has quit IRC[02:35:29] *** Dane_ has joined #haiku[02:35:51] <Dane_> narf[02:36:24] *** Jin has quit IRC[02:36:37] <Vernaldo> rape me[02:36:38] <DaaT> hi Dane_ :)[02:36:55] * Vernaldo listens to Rape Me[02:38:27] <Dane_> Hi DaaT[02:38:44] <Dane_> The caliber of the people in here seems to be declining lately[02:38:52] <DaaT> i'll be updating ICO in a few mns, you _don't_ want to miss this one[02:38:57] <Dane_> cool[02:42:01] <Vernaldo> Dane_: oh look at you mr. fancy pantsy[02:44:15] <DaaT> ok Dane_, check ICO[02:44:37] <Vernaldo> lol[02:45:29] <Dane_> DaaT, heh, I know...that's just too silly, isn't it? Read that earlier today. Good grief. Some peoples' kids! :-)[02:45:30] <Vernaldo> talking of news of the weird[02:45:54] <DaaT> :D[02:46:03] <DaaT> that's just awesome[02:46:09] <Vernaldo> great line: 2000 people were fooled by this terrorists.[02:46:12] <Vernaldo> huaha[02:46:15] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[02:46:54] <Vernaldo> do you have a wallpaper worthy picture?[02:47:14] <DaaT> about this story? no[02:47:15] <Vernaldo> if not a poodle sheep, than one of yours then[02:47:29] <DaaT> kokito: read ico :P[02:47:34] <DaaT> those are private[02:47:35] <DaaT> :)[02:47:44] <Vernaldo> yeah i heard[02:47:53] <Vernaldo> soft p[02:48:01] <Betabel> Vernaldo, el oracúlo[02:48:14] <Vernaldo> abilala[02:48:27] <Betabel> xD[02:48:50] <Vernaldo> whoopsie[02:49:03] <Vernaldo> bblgtgomg[02:49:10] *** Vernaldo has quit IRC[02:49:38] *** Betabel has quit IRC[02:50:19] <Dane_> DaaT, So what is it with you and sheep, anyway?[02:50:30] <DaaT> wha? *sheepish look*[02:50:32] <DaaT> :)[02:51:22] <DaaT> they're... cute and cuddly[02:52:26] <Dane_> Maybe you should do a web site about Ewoks then... :-P[02:53:43] <DaaT> lol[02:53:51] <DaaT> i don't even have a site about sheep![02:53:52] <DaaT> :)[03:04:29] * DeadYak pets DaaT[03:04:37] * DaaT pets DeadYak :)[03:04:38] <DaaT> thx[03:04:45] <DeadYak> IsComputerOn: Where men are men, and sheep are scared.[03:05:26] <DaaT> :D[03:05:29] <DaaT> exactly[03:05:47] <Dane_> Boy the Linux gang are a tough bunch.[03:06:21] <Dane_> You get into one of those IRC channels and sneeze the wrong way, and they jump all over you like dogs.[03:06:49] <DeadYak> what'd you do now?[03:06:49] <DaaT> lol[03:06:51] <Dane_> (or rabid sheep)[03:06:57] <DaaT> nothing new then[03:07:19] <Dane_> DeadYak, I tried to msg a guy who was helping me with something. He chastised me publically for trying to talk to him privately. Yeesh[03:07:52] <DeadYak> joy[03:08:05] * Dane_ gets the feeling it's kind of a cold, cruel world when you get into Linux[03:08:30] <Dane_> The BeOS gang has always felt a little more homey and comfortable.[03:08:49] <Dane_> With a few exceptions.[03:08:58] <pyCube> Dane_: there are jerks and there are not jerks.. pretty sure it has nothing to do with what their choice of OS is[03:09:01] <DeadYak> Luposian! :P[03:09:09] <DeadYak> sorry, had to XD[03:09:23] <Dane_> pyCube, My sense about Linux people so far is that they're kind of like New Yorkers. :-)[03:09:59] <Dane_> There are nice new Yorkers and not nice New Yorkers, but in general, they're more edgy and short with people.[03:10:05] <pyCube> Dane_: i think its more about linux irc happens to be full of obnoxious 14-18 yr old boys[03:10:46] <pyCube> but whatever it is, its a silly way to judge an os.. hehe[03:11:24] <Dane_> Not judging the OS, just the culture.[03:11:25] <pyCube> i mean, Stalin beathed air.. you know how them air breathers are...[03:11:26] <Dane_> DaaT, We've had a few exceptions over the years in BeOS too. Remember Esperanza (or something like that) ?[03:11:30] <pyCube> hehe[03:11:31] <DeadYak> he's not juding the OS, he's judging the community[03:11:35] <Dane_> right[03:11:38] <DeadYak> judging*[03:11:46] <DaaT> nope Dane_, don't recall that nick[03:11:54] <Dane_> He went by a dozen different ones[03:11:58] <Dane_> He was the absolute worst.[03:11:59] <DeadYak> and frankly I do have to agree that there's a lot more standoffish "You're either with us or against us" types in the Linux crowd than in most others[03:12:12] <pyCube> again, i think it has little to do with linux[03:12:13] <DaaT> it's the RTFM attitude[03:12:17] <Dane_> yep[03:12:33] <pyCube> yeah[03:12:42] <DeadYak> pyCube: considering I've run into people like this in person that were in their 30s and 40s, I don't think age has anything to do with it either[03:12:43] <pyCube> ... jerks[03:13:21] <Dane_> You have to choose your words *very* carefully in a linux chatroom. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells.[03:13:23] <pyCube> DeadYak: i know.. hehe.. but the attitude your talking about is very much about immaturity[03:13:33] <pyCube> youre[03:13:54] <DeadYak> pyCube: right, but I'm just pointing out that I seem to encounter it exceptionally often in the Linux community[03:13:58] <Dane_> It's an arrogance too pyCube . "We are the computer gods...crawl to us or die." :-)[03:14:50] <Dane_> In BeOS, if I was confused or struggling, people never made me feel bad about it...they just tried to help. Big difference.[03:14:55] <pyCube> Dane_: 17yr old kid: "I TOTALLY know what life is about.. you cant tell me that I dont know, because i know!! and when i am 30, i'll think the EXACT same way!"[03:15:00] <pyCube> kinda like that.. hehe[03:15:14] <Dane_> hehe[03:15:42] <Dane_> But I do say that BeOS community has been generally more welcoming, less arrogant.[03:16:59] <pyCube> smaller groups do tend to feel more homey and personal than large crowds[03:17:06] <Dane_> The most BeOS-ish of the Linux culture, the Ubuntus, seem to handle things more kindly and patiently.[03:17:18] <Dane_> They know they are dealing with more newcomers.[03:17:53] <Dane_> A small group can also be very cliqueish though, right pyCube ? I never encountered that with BeOS though[03:18:05] <pyCube> you never left[03:18:14] <Dane_> I arrived :-)[03:18:15] <pyCube> beos was immensely cliquish[03:18:24] <Dane_> when?[03:18:28] <pyCube> always[03:18:50] <pyCube> try mentioning linux in a positive way in a beos chat[03:18:51] <pyCube> hehe[03:18:53] <Dane_> Guess we have had difference experiences. I haven't encountered that.[03:18:57] <pyCube> especially say, a few years ago[03:19:14] <Dane_> pyCube, Oh, yes that way, sure.[03:19:33] <Dane_> I meant in excluding people or being mean to them[03:19:34] <DaaT> WHO SAID SOMETHING GOOD ABOUT LINUX? WHO?[03:19:37] <DaaT> *gets the trout*[03:19:40] <DeadYak> pyCube: back when I got into BeOS, most of the people were very much "use whatever you want"[03:19:48] <DeadYak> the only place I ever ran into that attitude was BeShare to be honest[03:19:52] <DeadYak> which is one of the reasons I hardly hung out there[03:20:03] <pyCube> DeadYak: yeah.. pre r5, i agree.. much different[03:20:16] <DeadYak> pyCube: I started with r5 actually[03:20:17] <Dane_> BeShare started out really nice, but then the really zealously anti-ZETA sentiment got out of control and I had to leave.[03:20:20] <DeadYak> previous revs where always incompatible[03:20:31] <DaaT> yes, Dane_'s correct[03:20:32] <DeadYak> were*[03:20:45] <DaaT> (also started with R5)[03:21:00] <DaaT> beshare was amazing, when at Ben's server[03:21:07] <DaaT> then it quickly went downhill[03:21:13] <Dane_> I still remember one time when Neil Morris asked me, "have you seen what's been going on in here lately?" I hadn't...but in short order, I was pretty shocked at how divisive things had gotten.[03:21:23] <Dane_> Just nasty[03:21:27] <DaaT> true[03:21:28] <DeadYak> Neil Morris...name doesn't ring a bell[03:21:44] <Dane_> Oh Neil was a great guy, from England. He and I were buds in there.[03:21:48] <DeadYak> ah[03:21:49] <Dane_> He did the news on BeOSRADIO[03:21:54] <DeadYak> ahhh.[03:22:05] <Dane_> for a couple years he was on the news[03:22:13] <DaaT> yep, remember him[03:22:26] <Dane_> That split in BeShare drove him away too[03:22:57] <Dane_> pyCube, You did a script or two for me I think, right?[03:23:04] <pyCube> i dunno about all that anti-zeta, divisive stuff[03:23:13] <pyCube> Dane_: sure did[03:23:15] <Dane_> pyCube, oh, it got horrible in there[03:23:21] <pyCube> dont recall details.. but yeah[03:23:39] <Dane_> pyCube, that's what I thought I don't remember now either! :-)[03:23:53] <pyCube> Dane_: i saw a lot of people ranting about zeta this and anti-zeta that.. and i threw in my thoughts[03:24:02] <pyCube> but i always assumed it was "discussion"[03:24:07] <Dane_> It was mean-spirited[03:24:12] <pyCube> i suppose[03:24:16] <pyCube> its just words[03:24:23] <Dane_> It ripped the BeOS community apart is what it did.[03:24:31] <pyCube> i dont think so[03:24:43] <pyCube> i think the lack of beos rippoed it apart[03:24:46] <Dane_> oh, most certainly it damaged it[03:24:59] <pyCube> and peopel just needed more fancy scapegoats[03:25:08] <Dane_> Things were much more collegial before the ZETA wars[03:25:24] <Dane_> but anyway[03:25:29] <Dane_> the past is the past[03:25:39] <Dane_> hopefully we'll have a really nice future with Haiku community![03:25:45] <pyCube> i think the most destructive thing was the HOPE of beos.. and the realization that it, um, didnt live up to all the hope[03:25:55] <pyCube> and people got SUPER emotional about it[03:26:00] <pyCube> and bitchy[03:26:01] <mmadia> don't forget, in the early days, yT had some pretty nasty PR issues.[03:26:32] <DaaT> that's because some ppl saw beos has the holy grail[03:26:38] <mmadia> and that certaintly got under some people's skins.[03:26:47] <pyCube> yeah[03:26:59] <DaaT> almost like a religion[03:27:12] <pyCube> and started blaming everything OTHER than beos[03:27:15] <mmadia> not so much as that, but using people's work without their permission or advertising ppl's work as their own.[03:27:33] <mmadia> i know the latter of that definitely eerked members of bezilla.[03:28:54] <mmadia> granted, overtime yT mended that bridge and others.[03:29:20] <mmadia> but the early dissent towards zeta wasn't completely unfounded.[03:29:23] <Dane_> sorry, was afk... catching up...[03:30:16] <pyCube> personally, i never saw the point of zeta.. seemed like a waste of time..[03:30:17] <Dane_> mmadia, Not entirely unfounded, but not terribly productive[03:30:30] <pyCube> didnt really care if somebody else wanted to use it[03:30:49] <Dane_> pyCube, Not to start this whole thing up again, :-), If it had succeeded, would it still have been a waste of time?[03:31:08] <pyCube> success requires a goal.. i dont get what the goal is[03:31:23] <Dane_> The goal of ZETA?[03:31:28] <pyCube> yeah[03:31:37] <Dane_> To establish a new market for BeOS[03:31:44] <Dane_> Rather than let it die out.[03:31:54] <pyCube> but that would kinda require beos[03:32:06] <Dane_> what was ZETA?[03:32:29] <pyCube> a dead horse in a box.[03:32:34] <Dane_> hehe[03:32:45] <Dane_> Not if it had succeeded, right?[03:33:05] <pyCube> at what?[03:33:16] <DaaT> and it lasted 6 years[03:33:21] <Dane_> ok, there's no logic left... unplugging[03:33:24] <pyCube> hehe[03:33:27] <DaaT> over half the time Be, Inc was around[03:34:36] <gotaku> It's impossible to sell a new commercial operating system if you don't already control the hardware.[03:34:55] <gotaku> Be's mistake was to think you could.[03:35:09] <pyCube> i think yt would have done better to reduce itself to a sw dev house.. make sw that runs in r5.. that would have maybe kept/attracted people[03:35:12] <Dane_> gotaku, What do you mean by saying, "control the hardware?"[03:35:23] <gotaku> Like Apple does.[03:35:27] <Dane_> oic[03:35:28] <DeadYak> pyCube: not really considering R5 was rapidly becoming incapable of running on new hardware[03:35:40] <Dane_> gotaku, Like Amiga did? :-P :-)[03:36:14] <pyCube> DeadYak: so then the other half is investing in haiku.. hehe[03:36:15] <Dane_> C64 Tandy TI994A Adam[03:36:34] <DeadYak> pyCube: when yT started, there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Haiku wouldn't fizzle out[03:36:41] <DeadYak> pyCube: there was the NewOS kernel and that was it[03:36:50] <pyCube> yeah[03:37:15] <gotaku> Amiga's problem was they were bought by Commodore which had a level of incompetence among it's management not seen before or since.[03:37:19] <Dane_> I'll tell you one thing definitively. ZETA has kept TuneTracker Systems alive for years, when nothing else would have.[03:37:34] <pyCube> i guess i just couldnt see how yt could get past all these weird imposed barriers.. beos ip, licensing, etc etc etc[03:37:45] <pyCube> like it was confined form the get-go[03:38:47] *** LiquidQuartz has quit IRC[03:39:07] <Dane_> gotaku, No mistaking *that* :-)[03:39:19] <Dane_> gotaku, Did you have an Amiga?[03:39:58] <gotaku> No, but I like computer history.[03:40:01] <pyCube> Dane_: fwiw, i am pretty sure you could implement tunetracker on a non-beos system without losing any whizbanginess[03:40:20] <Dane_> pyCube, Development costs are a big barrier to that.[03:40:27] <pyCube> you never asked :-p[03:40:39] <Dane_> who never asked what?[03:41:06] <pyCube> heh.. just being silly[03:41:18] <Dane_> Yeah, when the rubber meets the road... :-)[03:41:52] * Dane_ is enjoying the give n take tonite[03:42:04] <pyCube> how are you planning on pushing into teh future.. depending on beos/haiku/zeta?[03:42:17] * pyCube is just curious[03:42:19] <Dane_> I plan on hanging in there for Haiku[03:42:34] <pyCube> no plan b, to coin a phrase?[03:42:48] <Dane_> Nothing really atm[03:43:05] <DaaT> night folks[03:43:11] *** DaaT has quit IRC[03:43:11] <pyCube> see ya DaaT[03:43:12] <Dane_> Night DaaT About time you went to bed[03:43:15] <Dane_> oops, missed[03:44:37] <Dane_> I should check out for the night too...[03:44:44] <Dane_> nice sparring/chatting pyCube :-D[03:44:56] <pyCube> yeah.. its been a while[03:44:57] <pyCube> hehe[03:45:01] <Dane_> Yep, come often[03:45:10] * Dane_ out[03:45:13] <pyCube> i prefer 'debate'[03:45:18] <pyCube> see ya Dane_[03:45:33] *** Dane_ has quit IRC[03:50:14] <pyCube> well, i have hope for haiku... as soon as this focus on some previously done implementation of "beos" thing is done and dev gets back to what, to me, beos was all about.. new crazy stuff[03:50:18] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[03:51:26] <MrSun> pyCube, remember ... multiuser etc before they start doing "crazy stuff" i think :P[03:52:29] <pyCube> i just think that the really good stuff in beos was attitude/approach, not actual code[03:52:51] <pyCube> in general.. heh[03:53:33] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[03:54:51] <MrSun> c++ API is love :)[03:55:02] *** umccullough has joined #haiku[03:57:19] <pyCube> waiting for api access form python here.. heh[03:57:22] <pyCube> from[03:59:31] *** jevin has quit IRC[03:59:41] <umccullough> pyCube, python api access in haiku?[03:59:54] <pyCube> yes[04:00:03] <umccullough> i thought bethon was already confirmed working...[04:01:09] <umccullough> http://haikubeat.free.fr/files/python/python_haiku2.png and http://haikubeat.free.fr/files/python/python_haiku3.png[04:03:10] <pyCube> neato[04:04:18] <pyCube> hehe.. last thing i was working on in bethon was a gui layout module[04:05:29] <umccullough> iirc, the person who got that running had to tweak and rebuild python for R5 due to some missing symbol somewhere[04:06:05][04:06:12] <umccullough> he[04:06:14] <umccullough> h[04:06:20] <umccullough> keep trying ;)[04:06:43] <mmu_man> the vm swap (kernl vs user mappings) is reversed from beos and XEmacs doesn't like that :)[04:06:56] <mmu_man> so I must dump from Haiku at least[04:06:59] <mmu_man> if not build from here[04:07:05] <mmu_man> but it does work in zeta :)[04:07:06] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_zeta_pretty_toolbar_speedbar_scrollbar.png[04:13:36] <Anxiety|Home> how long until the deskbar can 'claim realestate'?[04:13:56] <mmu_man> ?[04:14:50] <Anxiety|Home> heh, nm :)[04:16:40] <DeadYak> my legs hurt[04:18:55] <joejaxx> pkg's are not installable on Haiku yet right?[04:19:22] <gotaku> mmu_man: Just what are you trying to do?[04:19:34] <gotaku> joejaxx: Not yet, but maybe soon.[04:19:59] <DeadYak> joejaxx: one of the SoC projects is to work on a pkg installer[04:20:10] <mmu_man> gotaku just finish my native XEmacs port[04:20:17] <joejaxx> ah ok :)[04:20:55] <gotaku> mmu_man: Will it run in Haiku?[04:21:44] <joejaxx> i am just gathering my apps to stick on the image[04:21:48] <joejaxx> apps/drivers[04:22:00] <mmu_man> gotaku once it's stable enough to be able to dump yes[04:22:22] <mmu_man> you can't run the beos binary due to the way i'ts done[04:22:32] <mmu_man> (ugly ugly)[04:23:02] <gotaku> Did Haiku recently get advertised somewhere? What's with all the new people?[04:23:40] <rcjsuen> gotaku: quite a bit on new on OSN imo[04:23:43] <mmu_man> gotaku at Numerica, at Google...[04:24:00] <gotaku> I'm speaking of this week in particular.[04:24:36] <DeadYak> gotaku: well, the SoC news was relatively recent[04:24:42] <mmu_man> probably osnews[04:24:55] <DeadYak> plus the osnews article about RobinHood running[04:25:02] <DeadYak> I think that was probably the big one[04:25:20] <DeadYak> all the recent zeta articles have put haiku a bit in the spotlight too[04:26:15] <gotaku> RobinHood?[04:26:35] <DeadYak> yeah[04:26:40] <DeadYak> the web server[04:27:10] <gotaku> Oh that... I think it needs a new name ;)[04:27:24] <mmu_man> and fixes[04:27:26] <DeadYak> you realize where its name came from right?[04:27:56] <gotaku> No I don't.[04:28:01] <DeadYak> remember Poorman?[04:28:45] <gotaku> Not really...[04:28:57] <DeadYak> it's the mini web server that came with BeOS[04:29:04] * joejaxx remembers :)[04:29:10] <joejaxx> yeah[04:29:11] <DeadYak> RH was a play off of that name[04:29:28] <DeadYak> since Robin Hood steals from the rich and gives to the poor :P[04:31:03] <Anxiety|Home> Robin Hood steals from the government and gives to the citizens :P[04:31:26] <Anxiety|Home> take that you tax and spend monarchy[04:31:26] <DeadYak> same thing[04:32:22] <DeadYak> anyways, dinner bbl[04:33:49] *** joejaxx`haiku has joined #haiku[04:33:53] <joejaxx`haiku> :)[04:34:02] <joejaxx`haiku> Vision ftw[04:34:10] <joejaxx`haiku> man i miss this irc client so much[04:38:16] *** the_webers_inc has quit IRC[04:45:30] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[05:09:36] <DeadYak> joejaxx`haiku: thanks :)[05:10:31] * JonathanThompson is looking forward to General Tso's chicken and vegetable-fried rice[05:10:49] <umccullough> joejaxx, ah, all good then?[05:10:53] <umccullough> or running in vmware?[05:10:55] <JonathanThompson> I might even find myself eating cats if they ran out :P[05:10:58] * [Katisu] wonders why JonathanThompson is stealing General Tso's chicken.[05:11:12] <umccullough> joejaxx`haiku i mean :P[05:11:14] <joejaxx`haiku> umccullough no this is vmware unfortunately :([05:11:19] * JonathanThompson wonders where [Katisu] got the idea he was stealing thei chicken :)[05:11:19] <umccullough> oh well :/[05:12:06] <[Katisu]> well, if it's yours, then it would be Jonathan Thompson's chicken[05:13:24] <JonathanThompson> ...[05:13:43] <[Katisu]> yeah, bad joke :P[05:13:50] <[Katisu]> I need to go to sleep.[05:15:35] * [Katisu] won't mention all the pennies he should take to the coinstar machine[05:15:43] <joejaxx`haiku> DeadYak you are AnEvilYak?[05:15:48] * JonathanThompson doesn't work there anymore[05:15:58] <JonathanThompson> But, I do have inside contacts :)[05:16:16] * [Katisu] never used coinstar[05:16:28] * JonathanThompson never used one of the machines, either[05:17:05] <[Katisu]> part of why you don't work there anymore[05:17:21] <JonathanThompson> :)[05:17:27] <JonathanThompson> Nah, no connnection.[05:17:39] * JonathanThompson had to add an extra n for effect[05:19:08] * JonathanThompson goes to pick up food ordered...[05:19:23] *** styluseater has quit IRC[05:19:37] *** jevin has joined #haiku[05:19:44] * [Katisu] goes to sleep[05:19:56] <joejaxx`haiku> bbl going to try it again[05:20:52] *** joejaxx`haiku has quit IRC[05:21:01] *** gotaku has quit IRC[05:21:19] *** jevin has quit IRC[05:21:35] *** jevin has joined #haiku[05:29:28] *** mmadia has quit IRC[05:39:06] <DeadYak> joejaxx: yes I am[05:48:16] *** stargater has quit IRC[05:48:16] *** aloph1-work has quit IRC[05:48:39] <joejaxx> DeadYak: ah! :)[05:48:47] <joejaxx> well thanks for it :)[05:51:05] <DeadYak> np[05:53:28] <joejaxx> man i also miss NetPositve[05:53:37] <joejaxx> NetPositive*[05:55:59] <joejaxx> :P[05:56:36] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[06:01:02] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[06:02:30] *** umccullough has quit IRC[06:04:26] *** umccullough has joined #haiku[06:12:33] *** aloph1-work has joined #haiku[06:14:13] * pyCube watches a debate[06:18:24] *** gotaku has joined #haiku[06:18:49] *** Begasus has quit IRC[06:24:20] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[06:29:41] *** absabs has joined #haiku[06:32:02] *** gotaku has quit IRC[06:39:58] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[06:46:01] <pyCube> hmm.. is there a term for a palindrome that is palindromic in a rotational symmetry sorta way?.. like MINI -> INIW[06:46:25] <pyCube> ...assuming iniw was a word.. hehe[06:47:03] <DeadYak> doubtful considering it doesn't exhibit true rotational symmetry either except maybe with a very interesting font :P[06:47:40] <pyCube> heh[06:52:22] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[07:00:02] *** Begasus has quit IRC[07:10:48] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku[07:10:50] <ddew|bofh> o/[07:11:15] * DeadYak pets ddew|bofh[07:11:24] <ddew|bofh> cheers, needed that[07:11:34] <ddew|bofh> been doing battle with haiku[07:11:47] <DeadYak> oh?[07:12:16] <ddew|bofh> well, not really. it's a combination of "because i can" and stupidity[07:12:38] <ddew|bofh> for kicks I installed the gnupro devtools and tried to compile a hello world[07:12:51] <DeadYak> ah :P[07:12:51] <ddew|bofh> wanna guess how it went? :P[07:13:02] <DeadYak> less than effectively? :P[07:13:08] <ddew|bofh> atleast the box didnät panic[07:13:12] <ddew|bofh> *didn't[07:13:29] <ddew|bofh> which is way more than i expected[07:13:53] <ddew|bofh> it puked on the linking bit and sorting that out is way more work than fun[07:14:33] <DeadYak> -lroot didn't fix it?[07:14:41] <DeadYak> that should be all a hello world needs[07:14:47] <DeadYak> unless it's graphical in which case -lbe too[07:15:15] <ddew|bofh> i need to specify that, for a simple "#include <stdio.h>"? :O[07:15:26] <DeadYak> printf and friends are in libroot[07:15:48] <ddew|bofh> same error[07:15:54] <DeadYak> really?[07:15:55] <DeadYak> care to paste?[07:16:02] <ddew|bofh> "crti.o no such file or directory"[07:16:09] <DeadYak> ah.[07:16:10] <DeadYak> interesting[07:17:10] <ddew|bofh> still impressive that i could boot up a freshly-built image, ftp the gnutools there, unzip them and then write an app and try compile it without the system going down[07:17:33] <ddew|bofh> the networking and cpu-load are typical panic-causerers[07:17:41] <ddew|bofh> (yes, that's a word.)[07:18:27] <DeadYak> not entirely sure on that one sorry, that sounds like it's not finding some of the gcc libs it links in for really low level C stuff[07:18:33] <ddew|bofh> likely[07:18:38] <DeadYak> which might be a simple pathing issue[07:18:56] <ddew|bofh> i'm not really interested in compiling apps on haiku atm anyways, just did it because i was bored :P[07:19:12] <ddew|bofh> cross-compilation is working fine here[07:19:32] <DeadYak> ah[07:19:47] *** llama233 has joined #haiku[07:19:52] <DeadYak> anyways[07:19:56] <DeadYak> g'night for me[07:20:01] <ddew|bofh> nn yak[07:20:05] <DeadYak> see ya tomorrow[07:20:14] <ddew|bofh> see ya[07:34:37] *** kr1stof has left #haiku[07:51:44] <_hugo> *yawn*[07:52:56] <ddew|bofh> *prod*[07:52:59] <ddew|bofh> morning laddo[07:53:05] <ddew|bofh> want some coffee? :P[07:54:31] <_hugo> really do[07:56:13] <ddew|bofh> hehe[07:56:19] <ddew|bofh> which timezone are you in?[07:56:20] <ddew|bofh> cet?[07:56:48] *** dtravis7 has joined #haiku[07:57:02] <_hugo> gmt :-)[07:57:07] <_hugo> 7am right now[07:58:02] <ddew|bofh> 8am here, planning on phasing back to normal[07:58:21] *** dtravis7 has left #haiku[07:58:23] <ddew|bofh> been up since like 5pm and it's starting to get annoying :P[07:58:26] <umccullough> 11PM here - thinking of going to bed :P[07:59:00] <ddew|bofh> heh[07:59:18] <ddew|bofh> all great code is written during night, it's a proven fact ;)[07:59:36] <_hugo> yeah, i just wrapped around today. yesterday was up for 24-26h, not even sure[07:59:37] <umccullough> i'm just trying to get haiku source onto my ubuntu box :([07:59:40] <umccullough> takes hours at this rate[07:59:51] <_hugo> umccullough: yeah, better go to sleep than wait :-P[07:59:55] <ddew|bofh> checking out the full tree?[08:00:06] <umccullough> working on buildtools currently[08:00:20] <umccullough> it died earlier and i had to start it again[08:00:39] <ddew|bofh> whoopie[08:01:01] <ddew|bofh> sucks to be you :)[08:01:12] <umccullough> it's fine - i've been finding ways to use up all my CPU in linux ;)[08:01:21] <ddew|bofh> hehe[08:01:34] <ddew|bofh> wish i could get some speed out of this system :([08:01:37] <umccullough> unfortunately I had a project running in windows before i rebooted - and i need to finish it :([08:01:44] <umccullough> ddew|bofh: what spec?[08:01:48] <ddew|bofh> GNU/Linux feels sluggish on this box[08:01:55] <ddew|bofh> c2d e6300 with 2gb ram[08:02:06] <umccullough> whiner ;)[08:02:17] <ddew|bofh> no seriously, it feels slow[08:02:30] <umccullough> want me to find something for it to do quickly for you?[08:02:38] <ddew|bofh> leaning towards blaming jmicron for their crap disk interface[08:02:48] <umccullough> the c2d's are relatively decent for distributed computing ;)[08:02:53] * _hugo hugs his mac mini[08:03:14] <ddew|bofh> i love the cpu, i'm just going crazy with the disk[08:03:38] <ddew|bofh> can't wait for flash disks to become more common[08:04:08] <umccullough> did you see Dell is offerring 32gb SSD drives for their notebooks now?[08:04:25] <ddew|bofh> i hadn't noticed, that's pretty awesome[08:04:39] <ddew|bofh> guessing they cost like 5K for just the disk[08:04:40] <umccullough> yeah, but 32gb disk cost you $550 USD[08:04:47] <umccullough> nah, not that much ;)[08:05:21] <ddew|bofh> the day we see terabyte solid-state disks i'm gonna party naked for a week[08:05:41] <umccullough> heh... by yourself? ;)[08:05:53] <ddew|bofh> of course not, that'd be silly :P[08:06:08] <umccullough> mmm... i'm just starting to get used to gnome...[08:06:19] <ddew|bofh> running feisty?[08:06:19] <umccullough> been a long time since i've seriously tried to use linux[08:06:23] <umccullough> yeah[08:06:37] <ddew|bofh> it's a very decent step up for desktop linux.[08:06:40] <umccullough> was driving me nuts until i looked up all the keyboard shortcuts[08:06:49] <umccullough> now i can actually do something :D[08:06:49] <ddew|bofh> i almost don't miss vista anymore[08:06:57] <umccullough> vista? what's that?[08:07:01] <ddew|bofh> heh[08:07:08] <umccullough> i haven't even TRIED it...[08:07:11] <ddew|bofh> been using it for 2 years[08:07:14] <umccullough> and i work in an all microsoft shop[08:07:21] <umccullough> with certified partner status[08:07:29] <ddew|bofh> heh, impressive[08:07:40] <ddew|bofh> avoiding the use of it i mean[08:07:42] <umccullough> it's such a turnoff for me... i can't even bring myself to pick up a disc[08:07:51] <ddew|bofh> it's actually way, way better than xp[08:08:06] <ddew|bofh> unfortunatly the massive fud-storm surrounding it keeps people off it[08:08:25] <umccullough> eh... the only way i can make XP usable for me is to make it look like w2k[08:08:37] <umccullough> and disable all the performance-robbing crap[08:08:42] <ddew|bofh> then you'd miss out on the compositing features[08:08:51] <umccullough> gladly ;)[08:08:59] <ddew|bofh> the things that speed up the interface and offloads the cpu[08:09:31] <umccullough> if it truly bothers the CPU otherwise, something is wrong...[08:10:02] <ddew|bofh> not really, instead of letting gdi handle the windows it chucks the work off to be done on the gpu[08:10:25] <umccullough> right, but with my P200 and a matrox millenium, even that wasn't a huge task[08:10:39] <ddew|bofh> nowadays it is[08:10:51] <umccullough> and therein lies my issue...[08:11:01] <ddew|bofh> anyways, avoiding the window tearing is worth it for me :)[08:11:17] <ddew|bofh> people like thumbnails :)[08:11:25] <umccullough> ugh[08:11:34] <umccullough> only when i'm looking at photos[08:12:22] <ddew|bofh> i like it[08:12:25] <umccullough> anyhow, stupid discussion i suspect -- i find no usability issues with XP[08:12:42] <ddew|bofh> yeah, it's all a matter of personal preference[08:12:51] <umccullough> yep[08:13:13] <ddew|bofh> on GNU/Linux for the time being anyways, cba to mess around with dual-booting or virtual machines[08:13:54] <umccullough> that's sort of why i'm switching over[08:14:04] <ddew|bofh> buildtools? ;)[08:14:07] <umccullough> this *was* my primary XP workstation...[08:14:22] <umccullough> but i truly don't use it for anything I can't do with linux[08:14:57] <umccullough> only problem is - some of the distributed computing clients I use are windows-only...[08:15:11] <umccullough> some work under WINE, but i'm not sure that'll be worth my trouble[08:15:19] <ddew|bofh> there are some things i can't do on GNU/Linux but luckily i have an emac around to handle media :)[08:16:12] <umccullough> i'm setting up a single core AMD64 3800+ with XP[08:16:31] <ddew|bofh> the hardware quality in apple-machines really impresses me[08:16:35] <umccullough> and there's always the wife's P4 3ghz[08:16:46] <ddew|bofh> even the low-end emac has got built-in DSPs[08:17:10] <ddew|bofh> which makes it better at handling sound than this "powerhouse"[08:21:37] <ddew|bofh> *meh* can't hack this. i need some sleep[08:21:42] <ddew|bofh> see ya later :)[08:22:19] <umccullough> 'night[08:22:22] <umccullough> er, bye[08:38:34] *** mazon is now known as Mazon[08:42:12] *** kokito has quit IRC[08:44:54] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[08:53:42] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[08:53:48] *** cherrypie__ is now known as Karina`[08:55:38] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[09:10:06] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20848 /haiku/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): added new helper ProtocolSocket. Moved some stuff together to achieve better inlining.[09:10:12] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20849 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/udp/udp.cpp: adapted UDP to use ProtocolSocket which it already derived through DatagramSocket.[09:10:30] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20850 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): adapted UDP to use AddressUtilities, for readability.[09:17:35] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[09:20:57] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20851 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): addressed Axel's suggestion regarding SocketAddress' GetPort() name.[09:21:14] <geist> i'd buy that for a dollar[09:21:51] <_hugo> yarr![09:22:13] <umccullough> 'night[09:22:22] <_hugo> bye umccullough[09:22:32] *** umccullough has left #haiku[09:22:54] *** myob has joined #haiku[09:26:27] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[09:37:16] * JonathanThompson notes someone that's been watching too many 70's-80's movies[09:38:40] <geist> nice[09:38:47] <geist> someone that actually caught the reference[09:39:03] <JonathanThompson> I just got back to my seat from an after-dinner siesta[09:39:39] * JonathanThompson notes it only takes an extra license plate length to mess up corrupted deals created by a corrupted license plate.[09:39:50] <JonathanThompson> Er, commercial.[09:40:38] * JonathanThompson considers becoming a C++ catch handler as a hobby[09:44:27] <myob> I have no idea what that licence plate thing means...[09:47:43] * JonathanThompson notes another reference was thrown that another young pup missed for the same reason the first one by geist was missed[09:48:27] <geist> 6000 sux[09:49:07] <JonathanThompson> I want one![09:49:18] <myob> right I'm just confused entirely[09:49:20] * JonathanThompson hopes Murphy is feeling better[09:49:49] <JonathanThompson> I'm thinking the sequels were probably worse...[09:50:16] <JonathanThompson> At least I don't recall seeing them advertised in theatres, maybe for 2, but definitely never saw an ad for 3 in the theatre: I think it went straight to video.[09:51:29] <geist> 8.2 MPG, an American Tradition[09:51:53] <JonathanThompson> Ah, that's one I'm not able to remember where it's from :)[09:52:00] <JonathanThompson> It could be from the same place.[09:52:11] <geist> it's at the bottom of the 6000 SUX commercial[09:52:20] <JonathanThompson> Ah.[09:52:27] <JonathanThompson> Extreme subtlety :P[09:52:45] <JonathanThompson> For the size of an SUX 6000, that'd take some effort to get that bad.[09:52:51] <geist> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:6000SUX.jpg[09:53:04] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps it was armor-plated to go with the rest of the situation.[09:53:39] * JonathanThompson tries to remember if the first movie had the electrocuting car security system or not...[09:53:48] <geist> yeah i think so[09:57:42] *** slaine_ has joined #haiku[09:59:52] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[10:07:41] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20852 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/slab/Slab.cpp: ups, TRACE_SLAB was on.[10:07:49] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20853 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/kernel/util/OpenHashTable.h: added iterator to OpenHashTable.[10:07:56] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20854 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/udp/udp.cpp: made UDP use OpenHashTable for the endpoint table, part of the lookup is now inlined.[10:22:12] *** mmadia has quit IRC[10:22:37] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[10:23:13] <Begasus> plop from Haiku ;)[10:25:19] <Begasus> :P[10:25:28] <_hugo> Begasus: real hw?[10:26:13] <Begasus> Haiku unknown 1 r20847 Apr 27 2007 00:02:16 BePC BeOS[10:26:14] <Begasus> yep[10:26:21] <_hugo> nice[10:26:54] <Begasus> downloaded the bz2 img earlier today ...[10:27:03] <Begasus> need to change keymap ...[10:27:23] <Begasus> this is better ;)[10:28:32] <_hugo> geist: around?[10:31:32] <raph_ael> hello[10:32:40] *** ivachkov has joined #haiku[10:41:18] <Begasus> hmmm ... why can't I open the Desktop on another volume?[10:41:41] <Begasus> like "/volumename/home/Desktop"?[10:41:56] <Begasus> atleast not in Tracker atm[10:46:25] *** Begasus has quit IRC[10:47:33] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[10:49:11] <Begasus> re[10:50:03] *** absabs has quit IRC[10:58:28] <MrSun> http://bash.org/?749986[11:00:10] <JonathanThompson> That's a classic textbook "What were we smoking?: MrSun :)[11:00:53] <MrSun> :P[11:01:05] <JonathanThompson> Equally WTF is why more students didn't call them on that :)[11:06:15] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[11:06:15] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[11:07:08] *** Begasus has quit IRC[11:10:01] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_zeta_pretty_toolbar_speedbar_scrollbar.png \o/[11:12:15] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[11:13:48] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[11:13:52] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[11:14:18] <ivachkov> mmu_man nice :)[11:25:45] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/xemacs-zeta-toolbar-speedbar.zip the xpms I made for it[11:32:13] *** Begasus has quit IRC[11:34:38] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[11:35:28] <mmu_man> hey DaaT[11:35:33] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_zeta_pretty_toolbar_speedbar_scrollbar.png :)[11:35:51] <DaaT> hi[11:35:56] <mmu_man> plop[11:36:35] <DaaT> the same as yesterday? very nice :)[11:36:44] <DaaT> does the toolbar work now? ;)[11:36:47] *** LinuxKeitaro has quit IRC[11:36:54] <mmu_man> yes, the buttons work now[11:36:59] <DaaT> cool[11:37:20] <mmu_man> including after changing them :)[11:37:33] <mmu_man> (forgot to SetTargetForItems each time)[11:38:55] *** Euver has joined #haiku[11:41:16] <DaaT> :)[11:43:15] <[Beta]> DaaT, "terrorist" poodle-makers? LOL :p[11:43:46] <DaaT> *g*[11:43:53] <DaaT> well, aren't they???[11:43:57] <DaaT> :P[11:44:27] <DaaT> oops, typo[11:44:46] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[11:44:55] <DaaT> fixed[11:51:24] *** Begasus is now known as Begasus_bbl[11:56:58] *** phoenix24 has joined #haiku[12:04:16] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[12:04:39] *** devian has joined #haiku[12:06:23] <devian> hai haiku friends[12:07:34] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[12:08:07] <devian> is haiku have any Deassembler??[12:09:33] *** andre has joined #haiku[12:11:01] <mmu_man> objdump :)[12:12:25] <devian> fine .....is it open Source??[12:12:34] <myob> its part of binutils[12:15:07] *** aloph1-work has quit IRC[12:15:30] <devian> ok[12:16:10] <mmu_man> also see google:reveng beos[12:16:41] <devian> oho fine ;)[12:23:00] *** Euver has quit IRC[12:23:03] <mmu_man> now tha'ts what I need :)[12:23:03] <mmu_man> http://www.osnews.com/story.php/17779/Review-22-Viewsonic-Widescreen-LCD-Monitor/[12:23:19] <mmu_man> 2 of those :)[12:25:06] <DaaT> those are nice[12:25:11] <DaaT> or get 2 samsung 24"[12:25:14] <DaaT> even better[12:25:19] <_hugo> yeah, get me two of those[12:25:21] <_hugo> ^_^[12:25:31] <mmu_man> how much ? :)[12:26:03] <mmu_man> $250 for a refurbished item...[12:26:41] <mmu_man> I hope they are better than my refurbished (RMAed) WD400 that was already half defective when I got it back[12:27:28] <DaaT> it has speakers?? ugh..[12:28:20] <DaaT> lol[12:28:21] *** Jixt has quit IRC[12:28:34] <DaaT> eugenia has sheep on top of a monitor[12:28:39] <DaaT> copycat[12:28:46] <mmu_man> :))[12:32:39] *** andre is now known as A-v-S[12:36:54] <DaaT> btw mmu_man, seen the scam news at ico?[12:37:02] <mmu_man> yes nice :))[12:38:00] <DaaT> rene pointed me to that one (had to be)[12:38:02] <DaaT> :)[12:38:40] <mmu_man> wanna download 500MB and try xemacs ? :D[12:39:38] <DaaT> mmmmmmm[12:39:42] <DaaT> let me think abou... no[12:39:43] <DaaT> :P[12:40:18] <mmu_man> tsss[12:41:22] <DaaT> :P[12:41:37] <DaaT> also, i'm going away for the weekend in a few hours, so no time to try it out :D[12:45:45] *** devian has left #haiku[12:46:14] <CIA-18> bonefish * r20855 /haiku/trunk/src/ (2 files in 2 dirs): More correct return value.[12:47:25] <CIA-18> bonefish * r20856 /haiku/trunk/src/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Even more correct return value.[12:55:23] *** phoenix24 has quit IRC[12:57:53] *** Sil2100 has joined #haiku[12:58:02] <Sil2100> Hi everyone[13:16:08] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[13:18:40] *** phoenix24 has joined #haiku[13:29:07] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[13:30:24] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20857 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/udp/udp.cpp: completed UDP's locking.[13:38:04] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:38:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[13:40:12] *** TTRanger has joined #Haiku[13:42:53] *** bga has joined #haiku[13:42:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o bga[13:44:53] *** aloph1-work has joined #haiku[14:10:12] *** Ingenu has left #Haiku[14:11:32] <CIA-18> bonefish * r20858 /haiku/trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs):[14:11:32] <CIA-18> Added a few more functions to the host platform BeOS compatibility layer:[14:11:32] <CIA-18> * thread related functions,[14:11:32] <CIA-18> * semaphore related functions,[14:11:32] <CIA-18> * atomic_*() functions,[14:11:33] <CIA-18> * readv_pos(), writev_pos().[14:14:28] *** gotaku has joined #haiku[14:17:37] <CIA-18> bonefish * r20859 /haiku/trunk/ (70 files in 3 dirs):[14:17:37] <CIA-18> Beginnings of a new, better portable FS shell with Haiku FS interface.[14:17:37] <CIA-18> Doesn't do anything ATM, but already provides the required system[14:17:37] <CIA-18> interface (VFS, caches, POSIX functions).[14:18:58] *** phoenix24 has quit IRC[14:19:17] *** phoenix24 has joined #haiku[14:20:16] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[14:22:25] <gotaku> Wow, big commit.[14:25:55] <CIA-18> bonefish * r20860 /haiku/trunk/src/ (29 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)[14:25:55] <CIA-18> * Prepared the BFS sources to be used with the new FS shell:[14:25:55] <CIA-18> - Moved all inclusions of system headers into a new[14:25:55] <CIA-18> system_dependencies.h header, which conditionally either includes[14:25:55] <CIA-18> these or the FS shell headers.[14:25:55] <CIA-18> - Fixed compiler warnings related to printf-like functions (int32 is[14:25:57] <CIA-18> int, not long on non-BeOS platforms).[14:28:40] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[14:30:35] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[14:33:27] *** StylusEater_Work has joined #haiku[14:33:57] <mmu_man> we should define those PRId32 & friends[14:35:31] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[14:36:50] *** absabs has joined #haiku[14:36:51] *** cherrypie__ has joined #haiku[14:46:40] *** Karina` has quit IRC[14:46:53] *** MikeW has joined #haiku[14:50:44] *** phoenix24 has quit IRC[14:52:52] <_hugo> hm, something is broken[14:56:43] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku[14:56:44] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[14:58:11] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[15:12:59] <myob> MikeW: whats with the new shell?[15:17:26] <_hugo> myob: bfs_shell? to work with 64 bit system[15:17:34] <_hugo> ..systems[15:19:16] <myob> _hugo: not that[15:19:20] <myob> I meant his hostname[15:19:23] <myob> he used to use a different shell[15:19:30] <_hugo> my bad[15:19:41] <myob> in case you didn't realise me and MikeW talking about our lives makes up most of the talk here at lull times :P[15:19:50] <_hugo> right[15:19:54] <DaaT> myob: don't be nosy[15:19:56] <DaaT> :P[15:21:10] <myob> DaaT: I'll be as nosy as I like about the life of someone I've met a huge 4 times! :P[15:21:31] <DaaT> so you don't think you've made that person suffer enough already?[15:21:34] <DaaT> :)[15:21:43] <DaaT> GIVE HIM A BREAK MAN![15:22:13] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[15:23:39] <gotaku> Is there a way to use svn to create a new working copy of the tree?[15:23:59] <_hugo> gotaku: versioned?[15:24:47] <gotaku> The current version.[15:24:48] <gotaku> I want to copy the tree to a different directory so I have an unmodified working copy.[15:25:01] <gotaku> Without having to pull down the whole trunk again.[15:25:02] <[Beta]> gotaku, why?[15:25:24] <_hugo> gotaku: right, but do you want the copy to maintain version info?[15:25:41] <_hugo> you can use 'svn export' to export it to another directory. if you want to copy it, just use 'cp'[15:25:50] <_hugo> the svn info is embedded in the directories themselves[15:26:22] <gotaku> How do I revert any changes that I've made?[15:26:29] <_hugo> svn revert filename[15:26:38] <_hugo> svn revert -R to revert every change[15:26:46] <gotaku> Thanks.[15:26:50] <_hugo> no problem[15:27:53] <DaaT> ok guys, see you next week[15:28:03] *** DaaT has quit IRC[15:29:32] *** Minbari_work has joined #haiku[15:35:01] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[15:37:05] *** llama233 has quit IRC[15:38:09] *** Minbari_work has quit IRC[15:38:34] *** Jixt has quit IRC[15:51:17] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[15:51:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[15:55:33] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[15:55:40] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[15:55:56] <MikeW> myob: I always use this shell when I'm at college[15:57:51] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[15:57:51] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[15:58:14] <myob> what happened to Floof then?[15:58:25] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[15:58:39] <mmu_man> (Sky News) Wi-fi could be dangerous...[15:58:45] <mmu_man> lol just like we didn't know :)[15:59:10] <gotaku> Most people probably have no idea.[15:59:35] <raph_ael> with mobile phones antenna, cars, etc etc, life's safe nowhere :)[16:01:13] <gotaku> I wonder how many people are still using WEP.[16:01:15] *** guildencrantz has joined #haiku[16:01:24] <ddew|bofh> o/[16:01:32] <ddew|bofh> morning ladies[16:01:50] <raph_ael> i do gotaku[16:02:14] <myob> mmu_man: you watch Sky News?[16:02:19] <mmu_man> sometimes[16:02:33] <mmu_man> one of few english channels I get on FreeboxTV[16:02:42] <mmu_man> and one of the very few that do work today[16:03:11] <mmu_man> it's mostly to practice hearing :)[16:05:41] <mmu_man> oh, right, it's blair's last days at 10 Downing St. :))[16:06:00] <mmu_man> maybe we should send them Sarkozy and keep Royal =)[16:06:06] <ddew|bofh> election coming upp soon?[16:06:23] <DeadYak> mmu_man: it is? didn't know that[16:06:26] <MikeW> myob: floof went bye bye over a year ago[16:06:32] *** LiquidQuartz has joined #haiku[16:07:05] <mmu_man> ddew|bofh IIRC he promised to give up in favor of another one[16:07:13] <[Beta]> uh huh[16:07:16] <ddew|bofh> i did not know that :)[16:07:59] <mmu_man> oh well, enough issues with french ones :))[16:08:02] <ddew|bofh> i guess i should start keeping up with foreign politicts, more than the absolute necessities[16:08:29] <_hugo> man, royal is hot[16:08:37] <_hugo> for 50 something[16:08:59] <mmu_man> it's not really the criteria one should use for this place :))[16:09:22] <ddew|bofh> hehe[16:09:28] <_hugo> sarkozy seems an evil midget. i think its as a good metric as any other[16:09:39] <_hugo> its highly irrelevant anyway[16:10:26] <ddew|bofh> i'm too cynical to engage myself in politics[16:10:29] *** Sloar has joined #haiku[16:12:51] *** MikeW has quit IRC[16:14:07] <myob> _hugo: and you aren't in France ;)[16:14:38] <_hugo> im not, but its the same here[16:14:42] <_hugo> we also have an evil midget[16:14:45] <_hugo> not in power though[16:15:07] <ddew|bofh> isn't evilness a genetical trait in midgets? :P[16:15:24] <_hugo> ddew|bofh: poor midgets[16:15:34] <ddew|bofh> hehe[16:16:36] *** Sloar has quit IRC[16:16:54] *** Sloar has joined #haiku[16:21:28] <gotaku> Areas are cool...[16:21:57] <_hugo> gotaku: create_area()?[16:22:06] <gotaku> Yeah.[16:23:01] *** Mazon is now known as mazon[16:31:21] <CIA-18> bonefish * r20861 /haiku/trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Fixed boot loader BFS build which I broke with my recent changes.[16:42:19] *** Jixt has quit IRC[16:47:45] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20862 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/kernel/util/OpenHashTable.h: fixed OpenHashTable::Iterator, it wasn't working for a single item.[16:48:01] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20863 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/TCPEndpoint.cpp: call ProtocolSocket::Open() for accept()ed sockets. This fixes a regression introduced earlier today.[16:49:14] <myob> _hugo: doesn;t portugal have a history of evil powermongers?[16:49:33] <_hugo> myob: we conquered the world![16:49:34] * mmu_man hands teh "I broke the build" cap to bonefish[16:49:45] <mmu_man> oh, he fixed it :)[16:53:39] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku[16:56:23] *** guildencrantz has quit IRC[16:57:44] <Sloar> has anyone used 3deyes?[16:57:57] *** guildencrantz has joined #haiku[16:58:01] <_hugo> my eyes are 3d[16:58:11] <Sloar> its on bebits[16:58:12] <_hugo> what do you need to know?[16:58:40] <Sloar> i need to know if it will work on beos pro 5.03 and if it will work on haiku[16:58:49] <_hugo> ah, can't help you there[16:59:06] <Sloar> http://www.bebits.com/app/4390[16:59:19] <Sloar> says for zeta, dano, phos[17:02:11] <DeadYak> that will not work in R5, it uses the new decorator engine in 5.1's app server[17:02:29] <DeadYak> R5 has no way to override the built-in decors[17:02:38] <Sloar> ok , do you think it will work in future haiku then?[17:02:58] <DeadYak> doubt it, 5.1 was never published or anything so it's not really considered an official API[17:03:41] <Sloar> ok , did you look at the screenshot, its awesome[17:03:53] <_hugo> you know whats awesome? ice cream[17:03:55] <_hugo> yeah[17:03:58] <_hugo> ice cream[17:04:02] <Sloar> where?[17:04:04] <DeadYak> meh, I'm not the world's biggest fan of OSX's look[17:04:07] <DeadYak> and yes, ice cream rules[17:04:44] <Sloar> where is ice cream?[17:05:26] <_hugo> Sloar: outside.[17:05:39] <_hugo> it's a surprise[17:05:46] <Sloar> funny[17:06:14] <_hugo> you know what's funny?[17:06:18] <_hugo> a monkey[17:06:36] <Sloar> just trying to get a good beos setup on my system[17:06:41] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20864 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/kernel/util/ (MultiHashTable.h OpenHashTable.h): introduced MultiHashTable, similiar to multimap, but with hash table semantics.[17:06:45] <_hugo> yeah, i understand[17:07:02] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20865 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (EndpointManager.cpp EndpointManager.h TCPEndpoint.h): replaced TCP's Endpoint Manager manual handling of endpoint lists with MultiHashTable.[17:08:14] <Sloar> i used to use betheme but bone broke it[17:08:49] * DeadYak hates theming[17:08:58] * petterhj too[17:09:04] <Sloar> can i ask why?[17:09:07] *** MrRagga has joined #haiku[17:09:13] <DeadYak> because I find it silly and pointless to try and make it look like something it's not[17:09:14] <petterhj> it's usually ugly[17:09:35] <DeadYak> a) ugly, b) doesn't usually actually behave like the thing you're trying to make it look like, c) waste of resources[17:09:35] <myob> _hugo: conquering only counts if you don't use it[17:09:49] <_hugo> myob: dont use what? :-P[17:09:57] <myob> DeadYak: sounds like a description of DaaT's average woman![17:10:03] <myob> _hugo: s/use/lose[17:10:16] <_hugo> myob: ah :-) we had our time[17:10:43] *** AndyBe has joined #haiku[17:10:46] <myob> we've only ever lost one colony[17:10:54] <myob> (we've only ever HAD one colony...)[17:10:55] <_hugo> who's we? US?[17:11:11] <myob> Ireland[17:11:15] <_hugo> ah[17:11:18] <_hugo> eheh[17:11:29] <_hugo> we had celtic people, before the romans :-P[17:12:03] <DeadYak> myob: hahahahaha[17:12:24] <_hugo> DeadYak: what colony did _you_ have? eheh[17:12:27] <myob> DeadYak: they're ugly, expensive, and he dresses them like sheep[17:12:32] <myob> _hugo: Montserrat[17:12:39] <_hugo> ah[17:12:48] <_hugo> my bad, DeadYak was refering to something else[17:12:53] <DeadYak> myob: he dresses them like sheep, or he dresses the sheep like women?[17:13:07] <myob> DeadYak: we're not sure really..[17:13:17] <Sloar> i'll try it on phos , thanks for the help[17:13:39] <myob> Sloar: IIRC BeTheme only works on very specific app_server versions[17:13:48] <myob> it will not work on a dano-fuck like PhOS[17:13:51] *** wildur has quit IRC[17:14:00] <myob> ...which looks ugly enough as it is...[17:14:06] <Sloar> it wont work on phos?[17:14:21] <AndyBe> mmu_man: little question NetServer doesn't see the vlan driver - with both addons is that realy normal?[17:14:23] <DeadYak> BeTheme will only work on plain R5, it works by hacking the app_server[17:14:37] <myob> very little works on PhOS[17:14:38] <Sloar> i meant the macosx theme[17:15:10] <_hugo> Sloar: everytime you use phos a kitty dies[17:15:21] <Sloar> i dont get it?[17:15:28] <_hugo> indeed[17:15:57] <ddew|bofh> heh[17:16:08] <ddew|bofh> ph0s isn't all that evil, atleast not b5 :P[17:16:17] <myob> a lot of people here dislike the idea of PhOS in many ways[17:16:39] <myob> it was a deranged loon hacking away at Dano and acting as if it was an actual legit OS[17:16:40] <Sloar> i am not big on polititcs from an os that is long not supported[17:16:45] <myob> oh wait, that happened again :P[17:17:17] <Sloar> if access or whoever doesnt want to support it then i wont lose sleep using it[17:17:52] <ddew|bofh> phos feels "unfinished" to me, lot of things feel out of place[17:18:00] <myob> its more a case of looncraz not supporting it[17:18:05] <myob> its horrifically broken#[17:18:10] <myob> far more so than Dano[17:18:13] <myob> and due to him[17:18:17] <ddew|bofh> sticking with r5+bone here :P[17:18:32] <mmu_man> AndyBe dunno[17:18:38] <myob> I'd stick to R5 n_s if my HW would take it[17:18:45] <Sloar> i use beos pro 5.03 + bone now[17:18:57] <Sloar> just want to do a little more[17:19:12] <ddew|bofh> bone is a necessary evil for me, the net performance with n_s is evil[17:19:18] <myob> PhOS doesn't do "a little more"[17:19:19] <DeadYak> (and the crashing)[17:19:23] <myob> it does far, far less[17:19:24] <Sloar> i own two beos authentic cd's[17:19:29] <mmu_man> bbl[17:19:30] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[17:19:42] <DeadYak> phos is pretty much a waste of time[17:19:43] <ddew|bofh> ph0s is like a gold-plated turd[17:19:48] <Sloar> not like i am looking for a free way out[17:19:54] <ddew|bofh> looks ok but it's really just a pile of crap[17:19:56] <gotaku> What are teams? The bebook doesn't really talk about them.[17:20:03] <myob> so do I, as well as two Zeta apparently-authentic-but-maybe-they-ain't.... but legality is not the reason people here are slagging it off[17:20:08] <Sloar> i paid for the beos i have on ppc and the one i have for intel[17:20:09] <myob> its just absolutely crap!"[17:21:44] <DeadYak> gotaku: teams = BeOS's term for processes[17:21:53] <_hugo> gotaku: check the kernel kit[17:22:27] <Sloar> will beos max v4 support themes?[17:23:45] <ddew|bofh> speaking of max, has anything been agreed upon regarding haiku "distros"?[17:23:56] <gotaku> _hugo: The kernel kit page in the bebook? There is only a small paragraph on teams.[17:24:08] <_hugo> gotaku: you said it doesnt talk about them[17:24:18] <ddew|bofh> i'm assuming haiku r1 will be like r5 but what's the stance on 3rd party stuff?[17:24:30] <ddew|bofh> *will be released like[17:24:35] <gotaku> _hugo: I said doesn't really talk about them.[17:24:44] <_hugo> gotaku: ``A team is a group of threads that make up a single program or application.''[17:25:06] <_hugo> gotaku: first paragraph, http://www.beunited.org/bebook/The%20Kernel%20Kit/ThreadConcepts.html[17:25:43] <_hugo> ddew|bofh: personally i hope Haiku will have its own base distribution[17:26:03] <Sloar> will haiku have an x11 server?[17:26:13] <gotaku> There will only be one Haiku... no distributions.[17:26:22] <ddew|bofh> _hugo: that's i meant about "released like r5" :)[17:26:23] <_hugo> Sloar: possibly[17:26:30] <_hugo> ddew|bofh: thats the good stuff[17:26:35] <Sloar> that would be great[17:26:35] <ddew|bofh> x11 *hiss*[17:26:38] <NeonLicht> if it doesn't come with it somebody will write one for sure, Sloar[17:26:56] <ddew|bofh> r5 ftw, any "extra" stuff you add yourself[17:26:57] <gotaku> If you want to create a "distribution" it would no longer be Haiku.[17:27:18] <Sloar> does rdesktop work on haiku?[17:27:23] <gotaku> That's my understanding of the policy anyway.[17:27:29] <DeadYak> yes, rdesktop works[17:27:33] <ddew|bofh> so it have to be the plain haiku release in order to have the name haiku?[17:27:34] <DeadYak> mmu_man ported it ages ago[17:27:43] <Sloar> excellent[17:27:48] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: either that or approved to use the name by the haiku foundation[17:27:55] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: cool[17:28:17] <Sloar> between x11 and rdesktop i could administer most of my network[17:28:29] <ddew|bofh> fragmentation should be avoided at all cost[17:28:35] <Sloar> all i would need is a novell netware client[17:28:44] <ddew|bofh> diluting the brand and what-not[17:29:02] *** A-v-S is now known as AndrevS[17:40:32] <myob> why is themeing support such a decisive issue?[17:41:15] <Sloar> i spend alot of time administering servers and sometimes a simple theme change makes it more bearable[17:41:38] <myob> why? you're not meant to see the window theme[17:41:43] <myob> its meant to be unobtrusvie[17:41:58] <Sloar> also look at all other platforms, something as simple as themeing can add users[17:42:23] <myob> not really[17:42:34] <Sloar> its not necessarily what any single developer wants but wwhat users would want that will make haiku successful[17:42:49] <myob> MacOS is unthemeable[17:42:49] <Sloar> other wise its just a hobby os[17:42:56] <myob> less so than BeOS even[17:42:57] <Sloar> shapeshifter[17:43:10] <Sloar> look at how popular shapeshifter is[17:43:11] <myob> MacOS X[17:43:12] <myob> reliably[17:43:16] <myob> is unthemable[17:43:25] <myob> Shapeshifter et al make the OS unstable as fuck and break all the time[17:43:28] <myob> ala BeTheme[17:43:36] <Sloar> thats why i use fink and x11[17:43:47] <Sloar> with fink i added enlightenment[17:44:00] <myob> so you use X11 UNIX then?[17:44:09] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[17:44:12] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[17:44:13] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[17:44:18] <Sloar> on mac osx yes[17:44:59] <Sloar> i would give up my macs in a second for a modern beos[17:45:16] <DeadYak> why? you want it to be something it isn't[17:45:18] <StylusEater_Work> Sloar: blasphemy...[17:45:20] <myob> so why use a totally different underpinning if you7're going to use what you can run on a freebie OS on commodity hardware[17:45:23] <StylusEater_Work> :-)[17:45:24] <myob> BeOS + X11 != BeOS[17:46:00] <Sloar> if i could run beos on my dual g4 i would ditch osx[17:46:03] <myob> MacOS X + X11 != MacOS X also[17:46:04] <myob> why?[17:46:15] <myob> if all you're going to do is theme it to look the same and use the same apps?[17:46:17] <Sloar> osx is insanely slow compared to beos[17:46:22] *** ivachkov has quit IRC[17:46:39] <_hugo> you know what else is slow? a turle.[17:46:40] <Sloar> classic using on of my two g4 cpus is faster than osx[17:46:43] <_hugo> turtle even[17:46:47] <Sloar> one[17:46:52] <myob> BeOS would be slow on the same hardware[17:46:57] <myob> as the hardware is very poor...[17:47:23] <Sloar> i wouldnt call a dual g4 1.6ghz digital audio poor hardware[17:47:49] <DeadYak> its FSB is pathetic[17:47:59] <DeadYak> which is a good chunk of where your slowness comes from[17:48:08] <myob> its extremely poor hardware[17:48:11] <myob> 133Mhz[17:48:14] <myob> FSB[17:48:15] <ddew|bofh> odd, my 1ghz feels snappy on tiger :)[17:48:24] <ddew|bofh> 1ghz emac[17:48:34] <myob> its equivalent in speed to a PC that cost 1/4 of the price[17:48:37] <ddew|bofh> although i only use it for media and recording[17:48:50] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[17:48:59] <Sloar> my mac handles call of duty 2 just fine[17:49:04] <_hugo> get to work people! you chat too much[17:49:07] <_hugo> silly pants[17:49:19] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20866 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (4 files): fixed a long standing binding issue with spawned sockets and TCP. also fixed bind() address checking rules.[17:49:34] <_hugo> i'll my ice cream now, yummy[17:49:41] <_hugo> i'll have ..[17:49:56] <Sloar> maybe i should get some icecream[17:50:03] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[17:50:03] <Sloar> brain food[17:50:06] <myob> so would an older x86 machine[17:50:09] <myob> that was way cheaper[17:50:14] <Sloar> nope[17:50:37] <myob> erm. yes.[17:50:42] <myob> it would[17:50:50] <myob> theres a reason Apple went to Intel, remember[17:51:07] <myob> PowerPC was a dead end, processors were slower, they couldn't exceed 167Mhz FSB on 32 bit systems, etc, etc[17:51:17] <myob> they're absolutely ABYSMAL[17:52:46] <Sloar> if powerpc uses reduced instruction set command aka risc then why would it need the same bus speed as a cisc?[17:53:11] <Sloar> less data would travel over the bus then a pc with same bus speed[17:53:17] <myob> absolutely wrong[17:53:43] <myob> the CPU instructions would use, erm, virtually nothing of the bus capacity[17:54:06] <myob> and anyway a Pentium 4 or newer era system isn't CISC anyway, its just pretending[17:54:19] <DeadYak> Sloar: the FSB has very little to do with the size of programs, it has to do with general data transfers[17:54:24] <Sloar> then why does an amd which is a risc /cisc hybrid keep up with a faster intel?[17:54:29] <DeadYak> um[17:54:33] <myob> they don't[17:54:38] <DeadYak> Intel's been a "cisc/risc" hybrid since the Pentium Pro[17:54:41] <myob> they haven't for some time[17:54:46] <myob> and Intels are EXACTLY THE SAME[17:54:52] <DeadYak> cisc vs risc has nothing to do whatsoever with performance nowadays[17:54:54] * JamesB192 thinks the extra registers would decrease bus demand, while more RISC intruction would increase it.[17:54:57] <myob> as I said, they're not CISC processors[17:55:05] <myob> JamesB192: that would be closer to the mark[17:55:16] <myob> except the instructions are still negligable in terms of usage[17:55:59] <myob> if you think PPC hardware is the same speed as x86 and AMD are in front can I ask you - how did you get back to 2003?[17:56:03] <Sloar> if you can perform the same task on a ppc using less data then it would need less bandwidth to perform same function[17:56:06] * JamesB192 also thinks the T2 is going to be neat, even if he can't afford one.[17:56:15] <myob> Sloar: RISC sends -more- instructions[17:56:24] <myob> additionally, we're talking miniscule amounts of data[17:56:31] <myob> you don't seem to understand how a computer works[17:56:34] <DeadYak> JamesB192: Ultrasparc T2?[17:56:46] <JamesB192> Yep.[17:56:46] <Sloar> i know where the power button is[17:57:00] <DeadYak> JamesB192: I want to play with one of those when they're out, we had an eval T2000 here for a while[17:57:05] <myob> ...and how to theme a mass-market OS, but beyond that...[17:57:07] <DeadYak> very neat stuff.[17:57:23] <DeadYak> except for the FPU being complete ass :P[17:59:45] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20867 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/EndpointManager.cpp: while iterating through the endpoint table, only do so for the port in context.[18:00:57] <myob> read up on what an FSB does and you'll see why PPC Macs are crippled[18:01:16] <myob> actually, is the AGP transfer rate on a PPC Mac done in too? Think it is[18:01:21] <gotaku> Is there an easier why to get the beos devtools onto the image? Right now I'm copying the .zip leading me to unzip it when haiku boots, but unzipping the devtools often throws me into KDL.[18:01:28] <Sloar> this mac is all i have besides a p3 1ghz[18:01:50] <DeadYak> myob: nah, AGP's more or less upper bounded by PCI[18:01:52] * AndyBe my linux is faster as windows xp and vista roffl......[18:02:12] <myob> Sloar: which is why you've got a seriously twisted view[18:02:28] <Sloar> can haiku run on an amd x2 6000+?[18:02:31] <myob> I however have a... hetrogenous is probably the best word for it, setup[18:02:42] <JamesB192> I think the trick to getting a non-x86 processor to be really competitive is to have at least three companies building variant based on the same external specs.[18:03:09] <DeadYak> right, the big problem is just that the PPC manufacturers couldn't care less about the desktop space[18:03:24] <myob> or indeed 32 bit equipment, DeadYak[18:03:30] <DeadYak> that too[18:03:41] <gotaku> But new PPC based Amigas are coming out ;)[18:03:51] <DeadYak> gotaku: believe it when you see it[18:03:57] <DeadYak> Amiga Inc. have promised that before[18:04:25] <Sloar> eyetech was the only one right?[18:04:32] <gotaku> I really think they should put a Cell BE into them... it would make a good platform.[18:04:33] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[18:04:34] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[18:04:41] <myob> and they're still on many-years-old 32 bit PPC snailcores[18:04:44] <DeadYak> gotaku: not really, Cell is crappy for general purpose code[18:04:45] <myob> anyway, I've got to go...[18:05:01] <Sloar> cell would make for a better co processor[18:05:04] *** myob has quit IRC[18:05:17] <Sloar> for off loading dsp functions[18:05:53] * dr_evil did a non functional change to improve debugging, and now it doesnt work anymore...[18:05:59] <gotaku> It has a general purpose PPC core (although limited)... not great but usable.[18:06:20] <DeadYak> gotaku: a general purpose core that's design-wise a PPC 604 running at a higher clock[18:06:30] <DeadYak> it stalls *HARD* on any code that's branchy[18:06:35] <DeadYak> which = the vast majority of app code[18:06:46] <gotaku> Yeah, I heard that.[18:07:00] <DeadYak> it has no provision for out of order execution whatsoever[18:07:32] <gotaku> What I'm looking forward to is AMD's Torrenza platform.[18:07:45] <DeadYak> assuming AMD survive long enough to put it out :/[18:08:09] <gotaku> I hope so... it would be horrible for the consumer if it was just Intel.[18:10:19] <StylusEater_Work> that would be awful if just intel existed[18:10:46] <StylusEater_Work> but then again, we'd be able to bake a chicken using our computer at some future point so maybe it won't be that bad... :-p[18:11:46] <DeadYak> SylusEater_Work: like how someone managed to fry an egg on the original Pentium 66?[18:12:12] <gotaku> If you want to bake a chicken in the future then buy a GPU.[18:12:13] <StylusEater_Work> no...that was without heat sink...I'm saying with all the cooling[18:12:20] <StylusEater_Work> gotaku: good point... :-)[18:12:23] <DeadYak> oh :P[18:12:53] <gotaku> While the CPU people are concerned about power dissipation the GPU people... aren't.[18:12:54] <StylusEater_Work> the easybake pentium[18:13:27] <StylusEater_Work> I've got "chicken inside"[18:13:28] <gotaku> I mean have you seen the blower style cooling solutions on video cards now days?[18:13:52] <StylusEater_Work> yeah it is a bit upsetting[18:14:10] <StylusEater_Work> but people buy marketing hype...they don't investigate[18:16:21] <Sloar> whats the word on the street about IBM want the power6 to be able to use the same motherboard as a next generation AMD cpu since IBM is helping AMD?[18:16:38] <DeadYak> they are?[18:16:53] <Sloar> yes[18:16:57] <DeadYak> that seems unlikely, power6's chipset and package size are entirely different[18:17:03] <Sloar> let me find the arctivle[18:17:48] <DeadYak> not to mention it uses a completely different bus architecture from AMD's stuff[18:18:14] * StylusEater_Work prefers power b/c it's "sexy"[18:18:55] <Sloar> where do you think the fast bus speed amd uses came from?[18:19:02] <Sloar> IBM helped them[18:19:38] <AndyBe> hello dr_evil.[18:19:42] <StylusEater_Work> IBM has their hands in everything[18:20:07] <StylusEater_Work> they're a primary reason why redhat is still alive[18:20:22] * AndyBe got BeOS R5 fully working with vmplayer...thats soooo nice.[18:20:55] <Sloar> sorry, its power7, heres the article: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/22/ibm_power7_opteron/[18:22:18] <dr_evil> hi AndyBe[18:23:37] <AndyBe> you all making big steps last month as I can see. wonderfull.[18:23:46] *** MauriceK_ has joined #haiku[18:24:53] <AndyBe> dr_evil: should be 2 GByte enough for my virtual machine to compile Haiku... Testdrive?[18:25:13] <dr_evil> I dont know[18:25:15] <AndyBe> with another partiotion to sea how it works, what do you think.[18:25:46] <AndyBe> hm, ok - I test it on with 2.5 that should be enough and a second one with another 500MB.[18:25:56] <dr_evil> 1,4 GB here[18:26:03] *** rcjsuen_ has joined #haiku[18:26:05] <dr_evil> but lots of small files[18:26:06] <AndyBe> ah, ok.[18:26:35] <AndyBe> dr_evil: the images are very small only 5MB left for other files, any idea to incrase that.[18:26:47] *** MrRagga has quit IRC[18:27:18] <dr_evil> yes, there is a build config file[18:27:24] <AndyBe> that should be a problem inthe next month. - I think best step ist 120.[18:27:32] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC[18:27:34] <AndyBe> 120 for default I mean.[18:28:17] <AndyBe> where ist that file, I incrase it by hand an hakui doens't boot ...overwrite imageSize.[18:28:55] <_hugo> AndyBe: check build/jam/UserBuildConfig.sample[18:29:19] <AndyBe> thanks _hugo, ... I looking for such a thing.[18:30:23] <_hugo> np[18:31:32] <mmu_man> anyone knows how I can overwrite the keymap and kernel settings from UserBuildConfig ?[18:32:32] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_zeta_alt_toolbar.png[18:33:36] <_hugo> mmu_man: HAIKU_IMAGE_LATE_USER_SCRIPTS?[18:33:59] <DeadYak> Sloar: AMD's fast bus speed came from the Digital Alpha-derived bus they use, IBM only does manufacturing for them[18:34:13] <Sloar> oh ok[18:34:16] <mmu_man> _hugo yes but I'm too lazy to try and hack a script for it[18:34:25] <DeadYak> HyperTransport is a direct offshoot of the Alpha's EV6 bus[18:34:26] <mmu_man> noone has one already ?[18:34:35] <Sloar> good to know[18:35:03] <_hugo> mmu_man: i use us qwerty everywhere, so no, sorry[18:35:27] <mmu_man> :p[18:35:51] <Sloar> was the 21164 the last alpha cpu?[18:37:59] <mmu_man> guess I should ask bonefish[18:38:09] <DeadYak> 21264 actually[18:38:28] <DeadYak> don't think 21364 ever went into production but I might be wrong[18:38:51] <Sloar> ok thanks[18:39:40] <DeadYak> I'm wrong, 21364 did go into production in 2003[18:39:47] <DeadYak> 364A, 464 and 466 were cancelled[18:40:33] <Sloar> i thought digital was dropped when bought by compaq?[18:40:51] <DeadYak> mostly was, it did run for a little while longer to support existing customers iirc[18:41:09] <DeadYak> once Digital got dropped though, most of the Alpha engineers wound up at AMD[18:41:26] <geist> there was at least a 264[18:41:44] <geist> which now i see is what DeadYak said[18:41:45] *** MauriceK has quit IRC[18:41:53] <Sloar> amd bought cyrix?[18:41:56] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[18:42:05] *** rcjsuen_ is now known as rcjsuen[18:42:05] <DeadYak> geist: too bad, those were neat chips :/[18:42:39] *** slaine_ has quit IRC[18:43:32] <geist> via bought cyrix, iirc[18:44:19] <_hugo> hey geist, in the kernel debugger, how can i retrieve a stack trace for other cpus besides the one where the debugger is running? any idea?[18:44:35] <Sloar> ok i wondered since the one amd cpu is alot like the old cyrix media gx[18:44:52] <_hugo> hm, i mean checking which thead is running[18:44:54] <_hugo> in the other cpu[18:45:21] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[18:45:24] <_hugo> and never mind, just figured it out. my bad[18:46:18] <TTRanger> Is PHP supported under BeOS?[18:47:20] <TTRanger> bga is PHP supported under BeOS? Or Perl?[18:47:48] <DeadYak> perl, yes, PHP don't think so[18:48:07] <petterhj> isn't there a php module for RobinHood?[18:48:24] <[Beta]> I believe so[18:48:49] <geist> _hugo: word[18:49:01] *** mazon is now known as Mazon[18:49:36] <_hugo> geist: im booting haiku in qemu emulating 2 x86s, it boots but doesnt quite behave[18:49:50] <_hugo> it hangs after bootup, but the debugger is still available[18:50:06] <_hugo> the 2nd cpu seems to hang context switching sometimes[18:50:13] *** korli has joined #haiku[18:50:13] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli[18:50:40] <TTRanger> what is the maximum byte size a strng style attribute can contain? Is it 256 B?[18:52:42] *** Jixt has quit IRC[18:52:48] <TTRanger> hugo Do you know?[18:53:03] <TTRanger> DeadYak ?[18:53:32] <_hugo> TTRanger: cant say i do, better way is to try[18:53:51] <TTRanger> it'll stop taking characters when it runs out of space?[18:53:54] <_hugo> geist: btw, with 4 cpus they seem to deadlock sending msgs to each other[18:53:59] <_hugo> TTRanger: try it[18:54:24] <DeadYak> TTRanger: offhand I don't think there's a limit, though there might be one on how much of it Tracker displays[18:56:38] * AndyBe usb works good on vmplayer...[18:56:45] * AndyBe new stack[18:59:35] <_hugo> TTRanger: btw, dont take me wrong, but usually the best way is to try something and see if or how it works[19:01:44] <Sloar> beos work fine on a dual xeon p3 1ghz?[19:02:11] <AndyBe> Sloar: I think so.[19:02:16] <Sloar> ok thanks[19:03:15] <AndyBe> Sloar: If you got problems with dual, ... change BeOS for using only one CPU.[19:03:33] <Sloar> oh[19:03:41] <AndyBe> Sloar: and when you install ...hit space an go in vesa modus, works better.[19:03:47] <Sloar> i was thinking about buying a dual p3[19:04:17] <Sloar> i can wait[19:04:31] <AndyBe> Sloar: Test it. BeOS works nice on my Core Duo, so I think Xeon is a little bit diffrent. Check it out - would be nice if it works.[19:04:39] <CIA-18> marcusoverhagen * r20868 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/ps2/ (5 files): improved debug output[19:04:51] <Sloar> you have beos on a core duo?[19:05:01] <Sloar> how?[19:05:23] <AndyBe> It works, Must pull out memory for it but it works with both cpu's[19:05:35] <AndyBe> I was very impressed.[19:05:54] <Sloar> beos 5 pro or max and what specs?[19:06:00] <korli> TTRanger: bga could tell you about attributes[19:06:15] <korli> if he was here :)[19:07:14] <AndyBe> Sloar: It doesn't matter. I tested it with pro and personal. - no max this days. The new max isn't ready don't test it.[19:07:36] <Sloar> both cores work fine?[19:07:41] <geist> _hugo: interesting. I riun on this dual p3 all the time[19:07:44] <AndyBe> Sloar: yes they do.[19:07:48] <geist> but yeah, the 4 way situation I can see being problematic[19:08:09] <Sloar> wow, impressive[19:08:35] <_hugo> geist: if you have the time, qemu seems nice to test various smp situations[19:08:49] <AndyBe> geist: he only got dual - so no problem I think.[19:08:52] <geist> qemu does smp now eh?[19:08:55] <_hugo> yep[19:09:04] <_hugo> up to 256[19:09:05] <_hugo> cpus[19:09:09] <geist> i generally dont trust any emulated smp configuration[19:09:19] <geist> most of the time they dont truly emulate it at the instruction level[19:09:27] <_hugo> oh[19:09:41] <gotaku> I tried running Haiku with 2 cpus in qemu... slow but it worked.[19:09:57] <gotaku> 4 on the other hand was unusable.[19:09:57] <_hugo> really? how long ago?[19:10:09] <gotaku> Probably 2 weeks ago.[19:10:25] <_hugo> gotaku: a gcc2.95 or gcc 4 build?[19:10:26] <gotaku> Maybe longer.[19:10:40] <geist> _hugo: so your lockups you were seeing on qemu?[19:10:48] <geist> or on a real 4 way box?[19:10:54] <_hugo> geist: qemu[19:11:05] <gotaku> Not sure, I used to run gcc 4 but I changed to 2.95... can't remember what I had at the time, sorry.[19:11:06] <_hugo> don't have access to any 4 way processors[19:11:36] <gotaku> I'll give it a try right now.[19:13:25] *** Thom_Holwerda has joined #haiku[19:13:30] <_hugo> a gcc 4 build doesnt work for me either[19:13:30] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC[19:13:58] <_hugo> gotaku: what version of qemu did you use?[19:15:17] <gotaku> What does invalid jamfile cache mean?[19:16:10] <dr_evil> gotaku I think you can ignore that[19:16:30] <gotaku> Ok. Didn't seem to hurt the build.[19:17:54] *** Euver has joined #haiku[19:18:23] <gotaku> _hugo: So what happens when you try and boot with smp 2?[19:19:27] <_hugo> it doesnt pass the leaf bootscreen[19:19:36] *** AndrevS has quit IRC[19:19:43] <_hugo> hangs when running bootscript[19:19:58] <gotaku> Yes it's stuck there for me too... but I'm going to wait a little longer.[19:20:41] <gotaku> You running the kqemu extensions?[19:20:50] <gotaku> Hey it booted.[19:21:18] <TTRanger> wht the heck was that bleeding puppy eyes thing? :-)[19:21:46] <gotaku> qemu running 2 cpus seems to be much more then twice as slow.[19:22:05] <korli> _hugo: (u)random is quite slow on qemu[19:22:20] <gotaku> I don't have kqemu so it's really slow... :([19:22:48] <_hugo> ah[19:22:52] <_hugo> ill give it another go then[19:23:31] *** TTRanger has quit IRC[19:23:38] <_hugo> korli: how much data is being obtained from urandom, do you have an idea?[19:23:53] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[19:24:50] <gotaku> When I say it booted I mean that it got past the loading screen... still trying to boot.[19:24:51] <korli> _hugo: I don't know for data, but there are multiple loops in urandom init, which are pretty slow on emulated hardware[19:24:51] *** arikato has quit IRC[19:25:17] <gotaku> Deskbar is running... then the whole screen just turned white.[19:25:41] <_hugo> korli: i see[19:25:47] <gotaku> Hm, it's loading gdb.[19:26:18] *** MikeW has joined #haiku[19:27:07] <korli> _hugo: running GLTeapot on qemu smp 2, I got the usual fps[19:27:22] <gotaku> Well something just crashed.[19:27:29] *** arikato has joined #haiku[19:27:45] <korli> the scheduler might be misbehaving, no load on the second CPU[19:27:51] <_hugo> korli: i've left it running for a while, app_server has started but the rest hasn't[19:28:17] <geist> korli: on a real box?[19:28:27] <korli> geist: no qemu[19:28:43] <geist> okay, so lets seperate qemu failures and Real failures[19:28:58] <gotaku> korli, You have a dual core cpu though?[19:29:26] <korli> gotaku: yeah, but no way to run Haiku on it (no ATA drive)[19:29:35] <geist> no doubt there may be a problem with qemu, but i betcha it falls into one of the types of problems you have with emulators[19:29:46] <geist> it probably hasn't emulated the hardware sufficiently enough[19:29:55] <geist> say the inter cpu interrupts aren't actually firing[19:30:03] <geist> you'd probably see more or less what you guys are seeing[19:31:19] <gotaku> I want to fix a kernel bug by the end of the day ;)[19:32:06] <korli> geist: could be very well, I think smp support is something like 1.5 year old[19:33:27] <geist> doesn't mean anything. bochs never emulated smp correctly[19:33:39] <geist> all qemu is probably required to do is emulate enough to boot linux/windows[19:33:47] <geist> most emulators suffer from that problem[19:34:32] <geist> i'll look at it, but i just dont see it being that big of a problem[19:34:33] <korli> geist: I wasn't meaning it was more than beta level support[19:35:17] <gotaku> I'm wondering if I should get a dual core or wait until the quad cores come down in price during the 3rd quarter.[19:35:38] <geist> depends on what you want it for[19:36:17] <gotaku> What does that have to do with anything? 4 is a bigger number then 2 ;)[19:36:34] <AndyBe> the standard in next year. then Intel throw the 8 cores on the market. end of the year.[19:36:48] <AndyBe> Windows Vista. Eat it all....lol[19:37:18] * AndyBe got to go.....[19:37:25] * AndyBe see you all[19:37:36] <Sloar> get a dual quad core intel mac pro gotaku[19:38:10] <AndyBe> Sloar: right - got here beside my I Mac 2 GHZ....nice very nice...see you guys[19:38:18] <gotaku> What that, $5000?[19:38:49] <AndyBe> No iMac. not new but for 1.200 € 2GHZ 2GByte....[19:38:50] <Sloar> dual boot osx and haiku[19:38:57] *** jevin has quit IRC[19:39:00] <Sloar> use parallels or soemthing[19:39:06] <AndyBe> Sloar: no, this time not.[19:39:17] <gotaku> What ever happened to the mac mini? It hasn't been upgraded in ages.[19:39:20] <AndyBe> Sloar: works nice with vmware...not released now.[19:39:27] <pyCube> i have a mac mini at work[19:39:34] * AndyBe by[19:39:36] *** AndyBe has left #haiku[19:39:40] *** stargater has joined #haiku[19:39:57] <pyCube> i have a mac mini for testing my web apps in crappy browsers[19:40:51] <gotaku> Maybe Apple is waiting for Santa Rosa before upgrading the mac mini.[19:42:55] *** absabs has quit IRC[19:44:17] <gotaku> I would like to see the apple cube to come back... after fixing the problems.[19:44:24] <geist> my cube is rock solid[19:44:29] <geist> and pretty fast for it's specs[19:45:00] <Sloar> even with its 100mhz fsb?[19:45:07] <geist> yup[19:45:17] <geist> it feels awfully fast for it's age, i can't really explain it[19:45:32] <geist> of course the first gen G4s were pretty peppy, has 1MB of L2, which is pretty large for it's size[19:46:03] *** Sil2100 has quit IRC[19:47:59] <gotaku> Then again maybe "Apple Inc." isn't to interested in computers anymore.[19:48:15] <geist> i guess, the recent ones are mighty nice[19:50:39] <stargater> hi[19:50:49] <gotaku> I hope unzip doesn't drop into KDL again this time.[19:51:03] <gotaku> Crap![19:51:08] <stargater> cu[19:51:17] *** stargater has quit IRC[19:53:19] *** arikato has quit IRC[19:54:23] <gotaku> Why does the kernel have such a hard time with unzip?[19:55:03] <_hugo> gotaku: what is the stack trace?[19:55:07] <gotaku> There is an unhandled page fault 7/10 times.[19:55:14] <_hugo> ah[19:55:30] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[19:55:42] *** arikato has joined #haiku[19:55:43] *** Jixt has quit IRC[19:55:44] <_hugo> maybe some race in the VM, allocating unavailable pages, or references which go wary, or overcommiting[19:56:05] <_hugo> gotaku: is it 'unzip' you use?[19:56:10] <gotaku> _hugo: Yes.[19:57:57] <geist> can you save these KDLs?[19:58:09] <geist> basically if the KDL is off in the weeds then it's hard to debug[19:58:32] <geist> but if it's a geniune case of the kernel doing a null pointer deref or something, that's much easier to debug[19:58:46] <geist> also, how are you precisely testing?[19:59:00] <geist> so i can reproduce (though i need to repair my linux box first, which is still gonna take a few hours I bet)[19:59:30] <gotaku> testing? I'm not really "testing"... just trying to get this file to unzip.[19:59:36] *** arikato has quit IRC[19:59:37] <geist> yes, but how[19:59:44] *** arikato has joined #haiku[19:59:48] <geist> and what's i9n the file, how big is it, how many files does it contain, etc[19:59:55] <geist> what is your hardware setup. is the box smp?[20:00:02] <geist> how much ram[20:00:12] <gotaku> It's the BeOS devtools.[20:00:37] <gotaku> No smp, 256 MB RAM, running VMWare.[20:00:42] <DeadYak> as in http://www.bebits.com/bob/12722/BeOS5-DevTools.zip ?[20:00:47] <gotaku> Yes.[20:00:52] <geist> okay, great[20:00:59] *** MikeW has quit IRC[20:01:20] <geist> how far does it make it?[20:01:25] <gotaku> Random.[20:01:28] <geist> does it blow up right away or does it do a bunch of files first[20:01:29] <geist> hmm, okay[20:01:45] <geist> basically unzip is hitting the file system like crazy, so it may just be hitting a variant of the luposian bug or something[20:02:02] <DeadYak> I was about to ask if running sync in a loop in another terminal made it behave better[20:02:05] <geist> a save of one of the KDLs would be extremely handy. hav eyou filed a bug yet with a trace?[20:03:02] <gotaku> No not yet, but I think there already is a bug filed but I'm not sure if it's the same problem. Looks like it though.[20:03:29] <geist> always better to file a dupe than not at all[20:03:55] <geist> also, since all KDLs effectively look the same, it's hard to tell if they're dupes[20:05:06] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[20:05:47] *** arikato has quit IRC[20:08:00] *** arikato has joined #haiku[20:08:54] <korli> geist: unzip with less than 256MB RAM is likely to fail[20:09:07] <geist> woot[20:09:15] <_hugo> just KDLed here[20:09:25] <_hugo> memmove() inside bfs[20:09:53] <_hugo> when closing a fd[20:10:18] <geist> oh cool, that should be fixable[20:12:44] <gotaku> Why does it happen randomly?[20:13:44] <geist> because the kernel is extremely complicated[20:16:46] <geist> timing is nondeterministic when dealing with hardware[20:18:56] <gotaku> What about emulated hardware? If I start unzipping using a bootscript shouldn't it go into KDL (or not) on the same file every time?[20:20:34] <geist> nope[20:20:55] <geist> kernel stuff is almost never deterministic[20:21:09] <geist> depends on when the timer comes along and triggers kernel work[20:21:21] *** LiquidQuartz has quit IRC[20:22:01] <gotaku> Why isn't the timer deterministic in emulated hardware?[20:22:30] <geist> because it relies on the host os to trigger it[20:22:42] <geist> and the host is not precisely cycle accurate[20:23:02] <geist> and anyway, even if it was perfectly deterministic, exactly when you started the command would make a difference[20:23:13] <gotaku> :([20:24:06] <geist> also, if they emulated hard disk hardware well, they make it asynchronous[20:24:40] <gotaku> Right...[20:27:17] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[20:31:28] *** oco has joined #haiku[20:34:06] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[20:34:23] <MYOB> Zeta doesn't see my USB keyboard/mouse... any suggestions?[20:34:38] * DeadYak summons Ithamar[20:35:03] <MYOB> they are quite clearly working, or else I wouldn't be able to type...[20:35:23] <DeadYak> ah, I assumed you rebooted with something that worked[20:35:34] <DeadYak> so you're saying they work, they just don't show up in the USB pref?[20:35:49] <MYOB> no, they work -in Windows-[20:36:16] <MYOB> I can't even "log in" to Zeta (fucking multiuser) without going back to PS2[20:37:15] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[20:37:46] <DeadYak> oh.[20:38:13] <DeadYak> got both a UHCI and an EHCI controller in there?[20:39:25] <MYOB> dunno, thought all the ports were EHCI[20:39:43] <DeadYak> not necessarily, on most boards only one set of the ports are[20:40:21] *** rgb has joined #haiku[20:40:26] <DeadYak> I'm assuming you've already tried moving 'em around though[20:40:35] <MYOB> 4 UHCI and 1 EHCI according to Device Manager[20:40:39] <MYOB> I however have 6 ports...[20:40:40] <DeadYak> ah[20:41:03] <DeadYak> probably a pair off the EHCI controller then[20:41:15] <MYOB> and no I didn't try that yet. knowing my luck the working port will be on the front...[20:43:08] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[20:45:10] <MYOB> if I boot on PS2 will Zeta detect a USB insertion?[20:47:54] <DeadYak> it should[20:49:07] <MYOB> right... lemme rip some CDs first...[20:49:19] <MYOB> another thing I have to do in Windows due to Ithamar :P[20:50:21] <MYOB> Windows, where the update app is now detecting my version of Windows as non-English[20:51:01] <MYOB> which is borderline true as its English (Ireland), but still[20:53:56] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[20:55:12] *** aloph1-work has quit IRC[21:07:58] *** kokito has joined #haiku[21:09:05] <kokito> good morning[21:13:27] *** Sil2100 has joined #haiku[21:15:58] * DeadYak pets kokito[21:16:31] <kokito> hey DeadYak[21:16:55] <DeadYak> how's it going?[21:18:47] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[21:19:26] <kokito> not bad DeadYak[21:19:49] <kokito> was having a laugh with my wife about the sheep-for-poodle scam in Japan :P[21:20:42] <numbah> :)[21:21:11] *** MYOB has quit IRC[21:21:23] *** Jixt has quit IRC[21:23:37] <StylusEater_Work> sheep for poodle?[21:24:36] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[21:24:37] <numbah> they sold cheap poodles.. and after some time it revealed that those were actually just tiny sheeps :b[21:24:55] <kokito> numbah, it's a hoax :)[21:25:09] <MYOB> DeadYak Zeta sees the wireless base for the mouse/keyboard as an "unknown device" in the usb commander[21:25:14] <MYOB> so methinks port swapping no worky[21:25:24] <kokito> that's why we were laughing with my wife (who is Japanese, btw)[21:25:43] <numbah> :))[21:26:21] <DeadYak> MYOB: ah :/[21:26:22] <MYOB> however, the fecking keyboard works[21:26:35] <MYOB> mouse dont[21:26:44] <DeadYak> MYOB: unknown device? that's interesting, it's reporting itself as something other than USB HID then[21:27:00] <MYOB> device type 3/1/1[21:27:10] <DeadYak> mm[21:27:15] <DeadYak> would need to look up the type codes again[21:27:39] <DeadYak> 0x3 is USB HID.....[21:27:40] <DeadYak> hrm.[21:28:16] <MYOB> any idea how I can type then?[21:29:08] *** robotintestines has joined #haiku[21:30:32] <DeadYak> nope[21:31:02] <MYOB> buggery[21:31:30] <MYOB> wonder can I still type if I pull the other PS2...[21:31:42] <MYOB> apparently so[21:31:57] <MYOB> well that means I'll just use my old PS2 wireless mouce[21:34:07] <DeadYak> geist: you have some ECE background right?[21:35:53] *** rgb has quit IRC[21:37:12] *** rgb has joined #haiku[21:37:20] *** Sil2100 has quit IRC[21:37:53] *** kr1stof_ has joined #haiku[21:38:22] *** MYOB has quit IRC[21:39:45] <geist> DeadYak: probably, depends on what ECE means[21:39:51] <DeadYak> Electrical/Computer Engineering[21:39:58] <geist> yep. got a degree in CE[21:40:01] <DeadYak> ah[21:40:08] <DeadYak> just curious, what's the benefit of NRZI encoding?[21:40:48] *** JonathanThompson has joined #Haiku[21:40:58] <DeadYak> noticed USB uses it so I looked it up, and I'm just curious as to what prompted the use of a scheme like that[21:41:06] * JonathanThompson lobs a LiveYak at DeadYak[21:41:11] <geist> hmm, good question[21:41:12] * DeadYak pets JT[21:41:25] * JonathanThompson pets geist[21:41:32] * JonathanThompson awaits completion of the petting circle[21:41:38] <geist> i guess it does have the advantage taht it doesn't transition any faster than the data rate[21:41:47] <geist> versus manchester encoding, or something[21:42:10] <JonathanThompson> Or then there's Manson encoding, where everything ends up dead, in a twisted manner :P[21:42:14] <korli> geist: can I write asm() instructions on multiple lines ?[21:42:33] <_hugo> korli: you need __asm__ and terminate lines with "\n\t"[21:42:40] <geist> right[21:42:41] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has quit IRC[21:42:54] <DeadYak> geist: manchester = phase encoding?[21:43:26] <geist> where say 1 is a 0-1 transtion and 0 is a 1-0 transition[21:43:31] <geist> so it's effectively running at twice the rate[21:43:35] <DeadYak> ah[21:43:43] <geist> but it self clocks, since it's guaranteed a transition on every bit[21:43:48] <geist> ethernet uses that[21:43:56] <DeadYak> interesting[21:44:04] <korli> _hugo: have a look at src/add-ons/translators/wonderbrush/support/support.h line 27[21:44:16] <geist> i think hard drives used variants of that too[21:44:29] <_hugo> korli: looking[21:44:43] <_hugo> korli: doesnt compile?[21:44:50] <DeadYak> geist: interesting[21:44:59] <DeadYak> geist: so basically NRZI is somewhat more bandwidth efficient?[21:45:26] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[21:45:27] <geist> well, versus something that's double clocked[21:45:31] <geist> like manchester, etc[21:45:34] <korli> _hugo: no, not compiling[21:45:38] <DeadYak> ah[21:45:41] *** AndyBe has joined #haiku[21:45:44] <geist> otherwise I have no idea why usb (and fddi apparently) use nzri[21:45:48] <MYOB> the keyboard + my old ps2 wireless mouse = working[21:45:49] <geist> nrzi even[21:45:59] <korli> _hugo: I added " at beginning and end of line and it worked[21:46:04] <_hugo> korli: try replacing asm with __asm__ and adding "\n\t" to the end of each string[21:46:10] <DeadYak> geist: gotcha[21:46:13] <_hugo> korli: the thing is gcc feeds that to gas directly[21:46:21] <DeadYak> geist: well, thanks, I wondered :)[21:46:37] <_hugo> korli: so it has to be in different lines and properly spaced[21:46:57] <geist> btw, I was just looking at http://www.interfacebus.com/Definitions.html[21:47:00] <_hugo> korli: also, as far as i know, asm() is for a single instruction, while __asm__ accepts multiple[21:47:01] <geist> has a decent little desription[21:47:19] <DeadYak> geist: thanks :)[21:47:21] <MYOB> appears the "media keys" on the keyboard don't work, just the 101...[21:47:44] <korli> _hugo: I'm wondering how stippi made it work :)[21:47:52] <geist> ah okay, just was reading a thing about usb[21:48:04] <_hugo> korli: oh, right[21:48:05] <geist> "NRZI produces a change in the signal indicating a logic zero, no change indicates a logic one. Bit stuffing is used with NRZI to stop the signal remaining in the steady state condition; if more then 6 ones are transmitted (no change in the signal) a zero is inserted to produce a transition. NRZI, with bit stuffing is self clocking, allowing the receiver to synchronize with the transmitter."[21:49:10] <JonathanThompson> That's the same (I think) encoding method the Apple 2 and Macs used on the floppy controller for encoding data.[21:49:16] <_hugo> korli: btw, cmpl clobbers conditions, so "cc" should be specified as well[21:49:43] <geist> so there ya go. that makes sense. it's self clocking *and* it is reasonably efficient (doesn't have to run at twice the clock speed)[21:50:06] <geist> the downside is the hardware at either end is probably more complex[21:50:40] <korli> _hugo: I think it's not even used[21:50:43] <DeadYak> interesting, I don't see that bit stuffing part in any of the descriptions I've seen[21:50:48] <_hugo> korli: the method?[21:50:52] <geist> yeah, that's the key[21:51:01] <DeadYak> geist: how do you distinguish that forced transition from actual data though?[21:51:24] <geist> both ends can figure it out[21:51:54] <geist> i think you just need to work out the 4 different combinations[21:52:03] <geist> and i think there's a state machine that always works it out[21:52:28] <DeadYak> ah.[21:52:53] <CIA-18> korli * r20869 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/translators/wonderbrush/ (WonderBrushTranslator.cpp WonderBrushView.h): fix typo[21:52:56] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[21:52:59] <DeadYak> geist: thanks :)[21:53:06] <korli> _hugo: yes it's like dead code[21:53:40] <_hugo> oh[21:54:13] <MYOB> libintl is being a total arse to build from VLC contribs for some reason[21:54:16] <geist> yeha, actuall yit just works itself out[21:54:29] <geist> both ends just know that after 6 zeros there has to be a one and can toss out the 1[21:54:40] <DeadYak> geist: ah[21:54:41] <geist> it's even simpler than i was thinking[21:54:57] <DeadYak> geist: so if there's 7 zeros, they know there's some kind of problem?[21:55:02] *** Andrevs has joined #haiku[21:55:10] <geist> right[21:55:14] <DeadYak> interesting[21:55:29] *** robotintestines has quit IRC[21:55:30] *** MikeW has joined #haiku[21:55:33] <geist> or the other way of thinking about is if you have a 'dead' line it'll just stay 'zero' all the time with no transition[21:55:40] <geist> and thus you can't get the clock from it[21:55:47] <DeadYak> understood[21:56:01] <geist> i think at the start of each usb frame there is a series of zeros that the receiver uses to sync with[21:56:17] <geist> which meas it'll get a transition every 7 bit cycles[21:56:29] <geist> and from that you can get the clock for the rest of the frame[21:56:34] *** Euver has quit IRC[21:56:39] <DeadYak> makes sense[21:56:58] <geist> i seem to remember the preamble thing[21:57:19] <geist> lemme find it. I actually have the hard book for USB 2.0[21:57:32] <DeadYak> okey[21:57:32] <geist> it's a pretty big tome[21:57:33] <MYOB> and I thought I was weird having the DVB specbook...[21:57:54] * MikeW growls a little[21:58:07] <DeadYak> MYOB: considering geist's written a USB stack I think it's justifiable that he has that :P[21:58:15] <MikeW> this version of windows detects previous versions of windows by counting the number of partitions on disk0 and checking the drive labels[21:58:20] <MYOB> oh well :p[21:59:14] <MYOB> building probably the last ever classic-BeOS-capable VLC now[21:59:23] <DeadYak> oh? why last?[21:59:40] <MYOB> 0.90 is GCC4-requiring[21:59:54] <MYOB> I may work out how to do the core with GCC4 and write a BeOS GUI to the resultant libVLC....[21:59:54] <DeadYak> ah[22:00:01] <geist> oh okay, the sync pattern is just a series of 1s[22:00:08] <DeadYak> I'm assuming vlc's core is written in C?[22:00:14] <geist> makes sense, with nrzi that'll transition on every bit[22:00:17] <MYOB> aye][22:00:28] <DeadYak> geist: aha[22:00:34] <DeadYak> geist: which in turn gives it good timing information?[22:00:37] <MYOB> BeOS intf was the only C++ till the QT GUI[22:01:02] <geist> well, it's actually more complicated[22:01:11] <geist> it looks like it's actually 11111100[22:01:29] <geist> er 11111110[22:02:05] <DeadYak> gotcha[22:02:31] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku[22:03:40] <geist> actually inverted from that, but yeah[22:04:04] <geist> usb's flavor of nrzi is apparently to toggle the line for 0s, keep it the same for 1s[22:04:12] <geist> which is why it stuffs a 0 every 6 bits[22:04:22] <geist> basically the opposite of what i had said before[22:05:22] <DeadYak> any particular reason it's every 6?[22:05:29] <DeadYak> or is that number more or less arbitrarily chosen?[22:05:41] <geist> looks to be more or less arbitrarily chosen[22:05:45] <DeadYak> ah[22:06:00] <geist> probably a tradeoff of clocking vs efficiency[22:06:18] <geist> it definitely implies that sending data of all 1s is 6/7th as efficient[22:06:39] <DeadYak> sure but how often does that kind of data stream happen?[22:06:49] <geist> well, depends on the payload[22:06:58] <DeadYak> true[22:07:02] <geist> reading from a disk drive with a file all full of 1s, versus 0s[22:07:13] <geist> would be sort of interesting to try that test, see if it reads slower :)[22:07:33] <geist> assuming of course, the bottleneck is actually the usb bus, which i sort of doubt on most setups[22:07:40] <DeadYak> be difficult to isolate that from any other factors though wouldn't it?[22:07:51] <geist> probably[22:08:05] * DeadYak nods[22:08:12] <DeadYak> well, thanks for letting me pick your brain, as always :)[22:08:35] <geist> heh, i didn't know this anyway, I just had the stuff to look up[22:09:05] <DeadYak> yeah but you have more background to make sense of it with than I do :) the time/sync problem hadn't occurred to me at all[22:11:51] <geist> okay, time to fixxxor the linux box[22:12:01] <MYOB> I read that as "fuxxor" :P[22:12:04] <geist> copied all the data to a new drive, now i just need to bless it with grub and we'll be set[22:12:19] <geist> i finally decided that the crappyass IBM drive i was using for root was the problem[22:12:23] <Thom_Holwerda> geist: tell me about it, spent 1.5hrs 2 nights ago trying to get ndiswrapper to work @#$$[22:12:44] <geist> it would apparently spontaneously stop working, which of course means the kernel coudln't dump any logs[22:12:58] <geist> now why the console would't get spewed with disk timeouts i still dont know[22:13:25] <MYOB> Thom_Holwerda supported wireless card ftw :P[22:13:47] <Thom_Holwerda> MYOB: it's on-board :)[22:13:56] <MYOB> so's mine[22:14:01] <MYOB> I just bought a proper laptop :P[22:14:16] <Thom_Holwerda> i dont have the money to *choose* a laptop[22:14:21] <Thom_Holwerda> i got mine as a gift :)[22:14:27] <MYOB> oh well[22:15:03] *** Andrevs has quit IRC[22:15:11] *** Andrevs has joined #haiku[22:22:30] *** pikapika has joined #haiku[22:23:10] <pikapika> hello[22:26:59] *** StylusEater_Work has left #haiku[22:29:33] <MYOB> apparently libvlc is C and fully functional[22:29:40] <MYOB> who wants to help me write a media player? :P[22:30:08] <MYOB> *tries to remember where he put the final version of his mediaplayer clone UI*[22:30:15] <MYOB> early version of it was in SVN onceuponatime[22:33:08] <DeadYak> has stuff changed drastically enough that intf_beos is no longer usable?[22:33:42] <MYOB> DeadYak a: it don't compile no more with GCC2 and b:[22:33:43] <MYOB> neither does the core[22:33:51] <MYOB> however when I battered the core in to working[22:33:58] <MikeW> Oh yummy, Longhorn Server beta3 has installed on my Celeron 450 box in 40 minutes. That's as fast as BeOS Max![22:34:01] <MYOB> intf_beos still didn't compile[22:34:07] <DeadYak> okey[22:34:08] <MYOB> and I do mean BATTERED[22:34:15] <MYOB> had header hell[22:34:24] <MYOB> either couldn't find stuff or multiple defs[22:35:16] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[22:35:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[22:35:26] <MYOB> if anyone is willing to get me a weekends worth of irn bru and chocolate I'll get the core compiling again and then the BeOS intf could be "figured" out[22:35:38] <MYOB> but videolan.org seem unwilling to take gcc2 patches[22:35:39] <CIA-18> jackburton * r20870 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/ (3 files in 2 dirs): made _BInlineInput_::AddClause() more robust in low memory conditions[22:35:48] <MYOB> oh, and the BeOS threading in VLC is disabled[22:36:49] <MYOB> and I can't even remember why[22:37:28] <MYOB> and it now relies heavily on poll() which has an... unreliable BeOS implementation[22:37:51] <MYOB> worked OK for the one release I did using it, I've recently just reverted the one file 0.8.6 needed it for[22:38:02] <DeadYak> I like poll[22:38:30] <DeadYak> though I like kqueue/kevent more[22:38:50] <MYOB> as goes letting someone more experienced do VLC... does anyone want the two hour lesson on getting a build env?[22:39:08] <MYOB> it takes this box about 5 hours to compile the build env at that[22:39:18] <geist> yowsers[22:39:22] <geist> sounds like you need a new box[22:39:29] <MYOB> geist I HAVE a new box![22:39:38] <MYOB> dual 2.8, 2GB RAM, SATA HDD[22:39:50] <geist> why is it so slow?[22:40:06] <MYOB> BeOS's shit file IO, and sheer bloody massivness[22:40:09] <geist> dont tell me you're running beos on that :)[22:40:14] <MYOB> Zeta 1.5.1[22:40:18] <MYOB> it won't run BeOS ;[22:40:19] <geist> ah there you go[22:40:26] <mmu_man> MYOB I feel for you[22:40:42] <MYOB> what did you -think- I was building VLC for BeOS on :P[22:40:43] <geist> oh that's true, zeta != beos due to the SHEER NUMBER OF KERNEL CHANGES ZETA DID[22:40:45] <mmu_man> some ppl at ffmpeg insist on not getting needed stuff in[22:40:50] <geist> and the COMPREHENSIVE USER SPACE REWRITE[22:41:13] <MYOB> geist no need to get arsey[22:41:16] <geist> :)[22:41:21] <MYOB> it won't run R5[22:41:24] <MYOB> or Dano[22:41:30] <geist> I'm poking fun at zeta[22:41:31] * mmu_man hands geist a new working capslock key[22:41:31] <geist> not you[22:41:40] <MYOB> it will run Zeta >=1.2.1[22:42:18] <mmu_man> MYOB I recall fixing one missing error condition in the poll() wrapper I put in ffmpeg[22:42:28] <MYOB> zeta 1.5.1 barely feels like BeOS due to fucking "multiuser"[22:42:33] <MYOB> considering retreating to 1.2.1[22:42:34] <mmu_man> it didn't check for the fd set size or something[22:42:55] <mmu_man> MYOB just set root as autologin after 2s[22:42:55] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[22:43:05] <MYOB> mmu_man I do log in as root[22:43:12] <MYOB> it still fucks up my home directory etc[22:43:26] <mmu_man> it shouldn't, but oh well[22:43:43] <mmu_man> and some stuff that used to work I have to fix again because they used the wrong branch[22:43:47] <geist> we had a multiuser ting working at be for a while[22:43:54] <geist> the kernel basically checks perms[22:43:58] <mmu_man> geist yes, export MULTIUSER=true :)[22:44:05] <geist> the biggest problem was all the servers that weren't able to deal with it[22:44:08] *** petterhj- has joined #haiku[22:44:09] <mmu_man> geist hmm well, not all of them[22:44:10] <geist> mail_server, for one thing[22:44:18] <mmu_man> and doesn't inherit umask and other stuff[22:44:21] <MYOB> call me traditionalist for actually thinking BeOS = singleuser[22:44:32] <mmu_man> MYOB that's quite wrong[22:44:47] <geist> it was a goal for r5, but after a few months of that we gave up[22:44:52] <mmu_man> it's always been MU with a single user as default =)[22:45:05] <MYOB> mmu_man it boots logged in and has no users,. that'll; do ;)[22:45:06] <mmu_man> I can understand why =)[22:45:20] <geist> but i do remember fixing a bunch of fs permission checks[22:45:23] *** petterhj has quit IRC[22:45:24] <mmu_man> it does have a user[22:45:34] <MYOB> I said userS[22:45:36] <mmu_man> if you use getpwent() you'll find one[22:45:45] <mmu_man> the one from $USER[22:46:00] <mmu_man> well 1 is part of N :)[22:46:05] <MYOB> anyway, other stuff is seriously fucking me off with 1.5 anyway[22:46:25] <MYOB> actually I didn't try my onboard NIC driver yet, if it works I'm bringing that back with me...[22:46:41] <MYOB> I need that last PCI for my DVB card[22:47:10] <geist> my little core2 board i bought the other day turns out to have some weirdass nic that linux only got support in 2.6.20[22:47:21] <geist> and the driver was (badly) written by the manufacturer[22:47:22] <MYOB> which is deafer than me but with my current aerial I should still be able to get signal on[22:47:41] <MYOB> I was looking at a 55% signal quality on my Wharfedale, jakced the aerial over and get bitstream errors on Windows![22:47:44] <DeadYak> geist: what chipset is that?[22:48:58] <geist> Attansic is the company[22:48:58] <geist> really looks like My First Ethernet Chipset[22:49:14] <geist> though it's cool the mfg write a driver[22:49:14] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[22:49:27] <DeadYak> never heard of them[22:49:30] <geist> of course they did it before atheros bought em[22:49:38] <geist> so now it'll probably turn into a black hole[22:49:50] <DeadYak> reverse engineering itme![22:49:53] <DeadYak> time*[22:49:57] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku[22:49:59] <ddew|bofh> o/[22:50:18] <gotaku> Hey how will the pkg install handle uninstalling?[22:50:25] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[22:50:48] *** bga has quit IRC[22:50:58] <MYOB> oh my systems shat itself[22:51:21] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[22:51:21] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[22:51:43] <MYOB> time to let it go to the toilet, brb :P[22:51:45] *** MYOB has quit IRC[22:52:01] <mmu_man> no laptop ?[22:52:05] * mmu_man has a laptop for that :)[22:52:15] <mmu_man> with a wire cause no AP yet, but the cable is long enough =)[22:52:38] <DeadYak> haha.[22:52:49] * DeadYak pictures eth cable disappearing under the bathroom door[22:53:50] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[22:54:27] <mmu_man> hehe[22:54:38] <mmu_man> actually I take teh laptop to teh bathroom for the shower[22:54:48] <mmu_man> so at least I get teh sound from teh news tv channel[22:54:54] <mmu_man> with the wire :)[22:54:55] <ddew|bofh> hmm, is ftp known to be broken atm?[22:55:04] <mmu_man> has ti ever worked ?[22:55:13] <ddew|bofh> it's been working fine[22:55:29] <ddew|bofh> now whenever i run it i get a vm_page_fault[22:55:37] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[22:56:16] <mmu_man> re[22:56:21] <mmu_man> anyway[22:56:29] <ddew|bofh> page fault in kernel space[22:56:50] <mmu_man> ddew|bofh slap _hugo :)[22:57:00] <mmu_man> BeOS is multiuser, because it's unix, because it has XEmacs[22:57:01] * ddew|bofh prepares to slap _hugo[22:57:02] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_zeta_pretty_toolbar_speedbar_scrollbar.png[22:57:09] * ddew|bofh slaps _hugo[22:57:19] <mmu_man> ugh, ok, doesn't work as NT also has XEmacs[22:57:45] <ddew|bofh> hmm, network at all doesn't seem to be working[22:58:15] <gotaku> mmu_man: What are those green bits on the sides of the toolbar?[22:58:18] * MYOB tries to remember how many times he's seen that screeny link :P[22:59:44] <mmu_man> gotaku the ViewColor() of teh topmost view[22:59:50] <MikeW> mmu_man: 6.2?[22:59:54] <mmu_man> made it so to catch misplacement of stuff[23:00:02] <gotaku> I see.[23:00:11] <mmu_man> MikeW ?[23:00:14] *** MikeW has quit IRC[23:01:32] <mmu_man> MYOB well, I need to get more users[23:01:35] <mmu_man> of XEmacs[23:01:38] <mmu_man> 1 is not enough :)[23:01:39] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[23:01:52] <mmu_man> wanna dl the 100MB and try ? :D[23:02:26] <MYOB> nae thanks...[23:02:38] <mmu_man> I don't see what you have against emacs really[23:02:41] <mmu_man> it's really nice[23:02:48] <mmu_man> and now quite well integrated[23:03:01] <mmu_man> nice native gui :)[23:03:17] <MYOB> I don't like emacs[23:03:18] <MYOB> or vi[23:03:19] <mmu_man> what more should I do ?[23:03:24] <MYOB> I'm editor war agnostic :P[23:03:27] <mmu_man> get it make coffee ?[23:03:31] <mmu_man> oh well it does it already[23:03:41] <mmu_man> :)[23:03:50] <MYOB> I accept there is a superior text editor, I dunno what it is, and I continue to use Pe :P[23:03:57] <mmu_man> have you even tried it yet ? :)[23:04:13] <MYOB> on Leenucks yes[23:04:27] <DeadYak> ugh, Pe[23:04:30] <mmu_man> the gui on linux is not as nice[23:04:37] <mmu_man> ugh.. pee[23:04:48] <mmu_man> with its qwerty keyboard shottcuts[23:04:52] <mmu_man> ALT-A for quit[23:04:55] <MYOB> DeadYak when you have to use VB all day, Pe is a joy[23:04:56] <mmu_man> ALT-Q for select all :)))[23:05:10] <DeadYak> MYOB: I don't like that editor at all[23:05:29] <MYOB> mmu_man aww, poor frenchyboard :P[23:05:41] <mmu_man> MYOB I even wrote a beide-like.el omde to get teh same colors :)[23:05:44] <DeadYak> MYOB: what, does it hardcode the keycodes or something?[23:05:49] <DeadYak> er[23:05:52] <mmu_man> DeadYak yes it does[23:05:54] <MYOB> I saw a flash control on a UK site today that had US keymapping hardcoded[23:05:55] <DeadYak> that was meant for mmu_man[23:05:56] <DeadYak> ah[23:06:02] <MYOB> so my email became myob87" and so on[23:06:03] <DeadYak> ouch[23:06:26] <mmu_man> fun[23:06:42] <mmu_man> I should try dworak some day[23:06:53] * DeadYak ponders an Eddie 4 Life tattoo[23:08:01] <MYOB> dvorak and emacs go hand in hand in my eyes[23:08:04] *** rgb has quit IRC[23:08:09] <MYOB> stuff I see no benifit if not a serious loss from using[23:08:11] <DeadYak> why's that?[23:08:30] <DeadYak> you realize the default qwerty keyboard layout was actually designed to slow down typists, yes?[23:08:39] <MYOB> yes, and yet we've adapted over time[23:08:44] <DeadYak> adapted how?[23:08:53] <DeadYak> it's still a less efficient layout, time hasn't changed that[23:09:01] <DeadYak> the only difference is there's no longer the mechanical justification for it[23:09:21] <MYOB> I've never found someone who's actually more effecient on Dvorak than they were on qwerty, and the apparent health benefits are, well, bullshit[23:09:31] <MYOB> if you're getting serious carpal on a qwerty, you ain't using it right[23:09:36] <DeadYak> according to who? you?[23:09:45] <DeadYak> if you say so[23:10:55] <MYOB> of the three coders in my family my brother has wrist problems, the other two don't[23:10:57] <mmu_man> I have a better option, but I've yet to build the hardware[23:11:06] <MYOB> that includes me[23:11:17] <mmu_man> but I feel it'd be the perfect input device for lazy ppl[23:11:21] * mmu_man pets Stargate[23:11:23] <MYOB> he however uses a stupid "stylish" silver keyboard thats really scrunched up[23:11:42] <mmu_man> I wonder if I should make a company to create real items from the series :)[23:12:00] * DeadYak pictures mmu_man with stargate tattoos[23:12:10] <mmu_man> ugh[23:12:14] <MYOB> I use a massive massive Dell keyboard from a previous era in work[23:12:30] <DeadYak> mmu_man: what, you don't want to look like that one guy from SG-1? :P[23:12:41] <mmu_man> reminds me I have to put back the IBM keyb here[23:13:22] <mmu_man> DeadYak no I want their tech :p[23:13:34] <gotaku> What I want to know is why don't we have neural interfaces yet? How disappointing :([23:13:46] <mmu_man> gotaku we do[23:13:59] <mmu_man> but you need to undergo heavy surgery to use current devices[23:14:08] <gotaku> No, some disabled people do.[23:14:16] <mmu_man> and lern how to use it for months before you can click the mouse[23:14:24] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[23:14:26] <MYOB> anyone with a LOT of money and NO sense can get them though[23:14:38] <MYOB> surprised that idiot, erm, Watnick hasn';t[23:14:52] <mmu_man> well there are other experiences with MRI stuff[23:14:53] <gotaku> They got a non-invasive one as well but it's harder to use.[23:15:06] <mmu_man> but you have to wear a haevy hat the size of a cray 1[23:15:33] <mmu_man> there are some other projects based on EEG but it's not as precise[23:15:52] <mmu_man> there are even open software and hardware around[23:15:59] <gotaku> I heard an idea of threading the wires to your brain through the capillaries, no surgery needed.[23:16:06] <mmu_man> http://openeeg.sourceforge.net/[23:16:34] <mmu_man> it's not stricty required either[23:16:52] <mmu_man> there are other tests that used an electrode grid stuck to the tongue[23:16:57] <mmu_man> for feedback[23:17:06] <mmu_man> some ppl could "see" with those[23:17:23] <gotaku> Although if we ever get feasible brain interface we could have telepathy for real ;)[23:18:04] <mmu_man> I'd rather train real telepathy, it's likely less interceptable than through an IP network :)[23:18:45] <mmu_man> astral projection... (actually it seems to exist as techniques as part of martial arts... advanced stuff though)[23:19:02] <gotaku> ... mmu_man, you're joking right?[23:19:07] <mmu_man> nope[23:19:37] <gotaku> This new age garbage is just as wrong as old world religions.[23:19:44] <Sloar> not martial arts[23:19:54] <Sloar> maybe a religious monk[23:20:40] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[23:20:42] <mmu_man> I'm not into drug-addiction flowerpower whatever[23:20:46] <mmu_man> only martial arts :p[23:21:01] <Sloar> what martial art?[23:21:09] <mmu_man> kung fu[23:21:10] <gotaku> Martial arts is fine but lose the irrational garbage.[23:21:21] <mmu_man> http://shengzhiqidao.org[23:21:27] <gotaku> Or I will hit you with a Chi blast.[23:21:46] <mmu_man> sotp watching mangas :P[23:21:57] <gotaku> Watching mangas? ;)[23:21:58] *** LinuxKeitaro has joined #haiku[23:21:59] <Sloar> you watch too much tv[23:22:04] <LinuxKeitaro> hello[23:22:07] *** TLF has joined #haiku[23:22:22] <mmu_man> (actually it's overexagerated, but some stuff is not totally unfunded)[23:23:08] <gotaku> It almost certainly is.[23:23:09] <DeadYak> http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=231[23:23:24] <Sloar> someday you should try koshu ryu kenpo[23:24:06] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[23:24:17] <emitrax> hi[23:24:24] <LinuxKeitaro> excellent work in haiku, if there are any devs in here[23:24:39] <gotaku> Kung fu doesn't seem to be a very effective fighting art.[23:24:42] <mmu_man> +EXFUN (Fforce_cursor_redisplay, 1);[23:24:53] <mmu_man> hmm why did I have to put that here[23:25:10] <mmu_man> LinuxKeitaro thx[23:25:11] <Sloar> you guys i found something cool[23:25:15] <Sloar> one sec[23:25:24] <mmu_man> gotaku *seem* to :)[23:25:37] <Sloar> http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37657&forum=4[23:25:56] <gotaku> mmu_man: Yes, all kung fu people to fight in UFC/Pride have been crushed.[23:25:59] <Sloar> according to this thread a copy of beos 5.03 pro was bought by ackcontrols[23:26:11] <Sloar> ackcontrols is amking the new powerpc amigas[23:26:16] <Sloar> making even[23:26:17] <mmu_man> gotaku I don't care about competition[23:26:27] <mmu_man> the only worthy competition is against yourself[23:26:35] <MYOB> Sloar means virtually nothing[23:26:48] <Sloar> interesting that he would be interested in beos is all[23:26:52] <MYOB> are they using old world Mac compatible glue logic?[23:26:56] <gotaku> mmu_man: That's fine then.[23:27:08] <LinuxKeitaro> I heard about the Amigas too[23:27:13] <LinuxKeitaro> sounds like competition for SyllableOS[23:27:21] <LinuxKeitaro> since they forked off a fork of Amiga[23:27:40] <Sloar> seems to me that most people that use amiga also appreciate the beos and vice versa[23:27:45] <MYOB> cause I really doubt they are, meaning BeOS isn't going to run ;)[23:27:54] <MYOB> Sloar a lot of Amiga refugees came this way when it went under[23:27:59] <MYOB> Axel I believe was one of them[23:28:04] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC[23:28:07] <gotaku> I hope they aren't trying to sell only the mainboard for that $500.[23:28:10] <Thom_Holwerda> LinuxKeitaro: syllable/atheos is mor elike beos than like amiga[23:28:22] <mmu_man> as for kung fu, don't mix up real kung fu with chinese wu shu, which sometimes looks more like gymnastic, nice visually but not efficient[23:28:25] <LinuxKeitaro> the past 5 years have been so enlightening for me[23:28:41] <LinuxKeitaro> first, about 4-5 years ago I discovered there was an alt to MS and Mac - Linux[23:28:44] <MYOB> 500 quid mainbozard may sell better than a 1000 euro full PC (c.f. RISCOS)[23:28:51] <gotaku> mmu_man: I know the difference between kung fu and wushu.[23:29:00] <LinuxKeitaro> then recently, Haiku, Syllable, etc - I had no idea there were so many OSes hanging around[23:29:12] <MYOB> LinuxKeitaro have you looked back before 1995 then :P[23:29:23] <LinuxKeitaro> I knew there were a lot of them in the old days[23:29:36] <LinuxKeitaro> but I thought since the hegemony tht it was just MS and Apple[23:29:56] <MYOB> nah, old computer stuff never dies[23:29:59] <LinuxKeitaro> hehe[23:30:10] <LinuxKeitaro> I had no idea ppl would hang onto old computers like Amigas[23:30:19] <LinuxKeitaro> then again, when I was young, I didn't realize how powerful they were[23:30:21] <Sloar> i also use atari ste[23:30:26] <gotaku> http://www.old-computers.com[23:30:30] <gotaku> Lots of history there.[23:30:34] <MYOB> it just gets put on life support[23:30:37] <LinuxKeitaro> it's only recently, when getting into the mod scene that I found out how powerful the Amigas were[23:30:40] <LinuxKeitaro> see, in my family[23:30:43] <ddew|bofh> retro computers can be quite useful[23:30:47] <LinuxKeitaro> we always threw away old computers[23:31:00] <LinuxKeitaro> so the idea of someone out there still using BeOS didn't make sense to me[23:31:00] <MYOB> I've still got my 1994 SGI beside me[23:31:03] <Thom_Holwerda> the biggest use for retro computers is that they teach modern day programmers how to wrie clean code[23:31:05] <Thom_Holwerda> write*[23:31:06] <LinuxKeitaro> wouldn't they upgrade to Windows, etc[23:31:08] <MYOB> throwing away stuff is sacrilidge[23:31:09] <ddew|bofh> i have an old Mac II as a word processor and serial console[23:31:17] <LinuxKeitaro> but now, I have all these old computers I'm collecting[23:31:31] <LinuxKeitaro> thanks to Linux & BSD they have been reborn into servers and renderfarms[23:31:33] <Sloar> i have a heavily modified color classic[23:31:44] <Thom_Holwerda> programmrs have become increasingly sloppy[23:31:57] <gotaku> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcjlhFVTY50[23:32:04] <Thom_Holwerda> i mean, who wants to lessen the mem use of his app by 3 mb when you generally have about 1gb?[23:32:07] <gotaku> Check that movie out... can you feel the 80's ;)[23:32:23] <MYOB> Thom_Holwerda I'd say code was hackier in the old days[23:32:26] <MYOB> had to be[23:32:29] <LinuxKeitaro> Thom - I've actually had professors tell me that there's no point in having good code[23:32:30] <Thom_Holwerda> what they dont understand is that if every programmer shaves 1mb off his apps mem usage, we al benefit[23:32:33] <MYOB> but now its often just wasteful[23:32:34] *** wildur has quit IRC[23:32:35] <LinuxKeitaro> after all you have so much space and mem[23:32:55] <LinuxKeitaro> Here's a post I wrote recently that I think you guys would like - http://server.ericsbinaryworld.com/blog/?p=821[23:33:04] <DeadYak> you realize that there's a good number of cases where you have to choose if you want something small or if you want something fast, and it's pretty much an either/or choice, yes?[23:33:09] <Thom_Holwerda> LinuxKeitaro: there's no need in lessening on food since we in the west have so much of it?[23:33:22] <LinuxKeitaro> Thom - sadly, some people think that way[23:33:27] <DeadYak> i.e. you can set up a hash table to quickly look things up instead of having to walk some form of list, but it's going to probably cost you some extra storage to do it[23:33:27] <Thom_Holwerda> unclean code is unstable code[23:33:30] <ddew|bofh> food!=computer resources[23:33:43] <_hugo> Thom_Holwerda: thats a bit far fetched[23:33:49] <LinuxKeitaro> I mean, it's pretty ironic that we're dying of obesity and they're dying of lack of food[23:33:50] <DeadYak> those analogies don't work[23:34:22] <_hugo> software is complex. writing good software is even more complex[23:34:24] <ddew|bofh> you mean food doesn't drop in price and get healthier and more filling with every 6 months? :O[23:34:36] <LinuxKeitaro> lol[23:34:39] <LinuxKeitaro> wouldn't that be graet?[23:34:40] <mmu_man> well, we all wish us a good "appetite", because we fear we'd not be hungry :)[23:34:52] <DeadYak> Moore's Bananas![23:34:55] <LinuxKeitaro> brb[23:34:56] * LinuxKeitaro is back[23:34:59] * LinuxKeitaro is back[23:35:02] <LinuxKeitaro> weird[23:35:26] <LinuxKeitaro> freenode doesn't seem to allow me to be away.....[23:35:33] <DeadYak> sure it does[23:35:34] <_hugo> you know what's weird? a banana driving an elephant[23:35:42] <MYOB> right, the pub calls[23:36:07][23:36:23] <_hugo> i fear for the sanity of us all :-)[23:36:27] <ddew|bofh> sanity is overrated :P[23:36:45] <MYOB> oh, I've known I'm slightly mad for years[23:36:47] <MYOB> wibble[23:36:50] <mmu_man> going to teh pub might not be the best for sanity[23:37:00] <mmu_man> :)[23:37:01] <Thom_Holwerda> sanity is something nobody has but everybody claims to have[23:37:14] <ddew|bofh> i'm bat-shit loco and proud of it[23:37:31] <MYOB> mmu_man nah, it reduces my ability to act insane :P[23:37:32] <Thom_Holwerda> the human mind isnt capable of running Sanity[23:38:01] <MYOB> no, only R4.5 upwards is :P[23:38:02] <_hugo> uh-oh[23:38:37] <_hugo> coding while lying down in a sofa isn't the most confortable thing[23:38:49] <MYOB> anyway, BEER[23:38:51] <gotaku> I want to work on something... does Haiku need any specific applications right now?[23:38:59] <_hugo> gotaku: yes, good ones[23:39:00] <DeadYak> streaming pr0n server[23:39:03] <DeadYak> jk[23:39:08] <MYOB> a media player that isn't EOLed[23:39:11] *** MYOB has quit IRC[23:39:14] <_hugo> DeadYak has all of the good ideas[23:39:54] <gotaku> What's wrong with the current media player? I haven't really played around with it yet.[23:39:55] <Thom_Holwerda> gotaku: how about an app tha generates hello world apps[23:40:00] <Thom_Holwerda> redundant, but oh well[23:40:02] <_hugo> i remember when i wrote an image thumbnailer just to better organize my porn[23:40:06] <_hugo> those were the days[23:40:09] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: I vote for an app that generates image viewers[23:40:13] <DeadYak> we don't have enough of those[23:40:14] <LinuxKeitaro> hugo - lol[23:40:21] <Thom_Holwerda> _hugo: LOL[23:40:29] <DeadYak> _hugo: tell me you're kidding[23:40:39] <_hugo> why would i be kidding[23:40:41] <_hugo> i sold it too[23:40:46] <_hugo> BeAndSee[23:40:46] <LinuxKeitaro> lol[23:40:47] <DeadYak> Pr0nDex![23:40:50] <_hugo> :>[23:40:55] <gotaku> I don't have any porn... I don't understand the concept of actually "saving" porn to your computer.[23:41:05] <_hugo> gotaku: this wasn't 2007 pal[23:41:17] <DeadYak> "Simple but Productive user interface"[23:41:21] <DeadYak> productive hm? :P[23:41:22] <_hugo> DeadYak: ;>[23:41:23] <DeadYak> I wonder how :P[23:41:31] <petterhj-> BeAndSee will never be the same now..[23:41:34] <gotaku> Yes but I still hear cracks about "porn collections" today.[23:41:41] <mmu_man> I've been trying to RE Gobe's format for some time[23:41:53] <mmu_man> looks quite simple but I'm too lazy to write a parser yet[23:41:59] <DeadYak> gotaku: I knew someone back in college that had a 40GB file full of porn[23:42:02] <Sloar> whats planned for haiku r2?[23:42:06] <mmu_man> would be nice to write a plugin for OOo[23:42:12] <Thom_Holwerda> DeadYak: thats just sick[23:42:13] <petterhj-> gotaku: you'll need *something* to do when your internet is down[23:42:13] <_hugo> Sloar: world conquer[23:42:20] <Sloar> sounds good[23:42:21] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: er 40GB hard disk[23:42:22] *** oco has quit IRC[23:42:25] <gotaku> Anyway, what applications does Haiku need?[23:42:26] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda and yeah[23:42:36] <Thom_Holwerda> 40gb of porn? darn[23:42:37] <Thom_Holwerda> thats like[23:42:38] <Sloar> gobe productive[23:42:50] <Thom_Holwerda> 0.0000000005% of the internet porn indexed[23:42:51] <_hugo> no, no office suits[23:42:54] *** oco has joined #haiku[23:42:54] <Thom_Holwerda> he should work for google[23:42:57] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: I dunno, at 1080p that wouldn't be all that much[23:43:11] <DeadYak> :P[23:43:14] <_hugo> 40gb of video (any content) isn't that much[23:43:14] <Thom_Holwerda> heh[23:43:22] <petterhj-> gotaku: Nirvana/Themis[23:43:31] <gotaku> What's that?[23:43:39] <petterhj-> native browser[23:43:40] <DeadYak> native web browsers[23:43:43] <Sloar> how about something like apple ilife for haiku?[23:43:44] <DeadYak> that never got finished[23:44:05] <Sloar> beos was big on multimedia[23:44:26] <Thom_Holwerda> Sloar: ilife isnt all that it's cracked up to be :)[23:44:44] <Sloar> might be why i have tiger and no ilife[23:44:56] <Thom_Holwerda> i do have them both[23:44:57] <petterhj-> well, iLife is a *collection* of multiple apps..[23:45:04] <Sloar> is firefox still worked on for beos?[23:45:13] <Thom_Holwerda> but only because i KEEP hoping apple finally optimises iphoto for speed[23:45:32] <gotaku> ilife isn't all it's cracked up to be? That's not what the Mac-guy tells me in the commercials![23:45:34] <mmu_man> mkdir /pr0n; sync; mount -t bfs ~/people/BenedictXVI /pr0n[23:45:39] <_hugo> Thom_Holwerda: its not easy to open and display thousands of images, specially big ones[23:45:40] <DeadYak> ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww[23:46:02] * DeadYak slaps mmu_man[23:46:05] <gotaku> Sloar: I think so.[23:46:16] <Thom_Holwerda> _hugo: then why does picasa2 do it about 395709574 times faster than iphoto?[23:46:18] <mmu_man> who said he didn't have anything to hide ? :)[23:46:37] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[23:47:03] <_hugo> Thom_Holwerda: im not sure it is those orders of magnitude faster, but obviously there are several factors on hand[23:47:07] <Sloar> how about apache and tomcat for haiku?[23:47:18] <Thom_Holwerda> _hugo: im overdoing it, yes[23:47:27] <DeadYak> what for? not really aiming to be a server OS[23:47:32] <Thom_Holwerda> but picasa2 is notably faster than iphoto[23:47:36] <Sloar> what are you aiming for?[23:47:41] <_hugo> Sloar: fun[23:47:50] <Sloar> then port call of duty 2[23:47:56] <DeadYak> boring[23:48:04] <_hugo> don't be silly Sloar[23:48:11] <gotaku> What about some games? R1 will come with some games right?[23:48:16] <DeadYak> Minesweeper![23:48:17] <_hugo> no games[23:48:26] <Thom_Holwerda> i wont download r1 if it doesnt have solitaire[23:48:29] <Thom_Holwerda> i dont play it[23:48:40] <Thom_Holwerda> but i just dont feel comfortable in an OS that doesnt have it[23:48:48] <DeadYak> Solitaire or Freecell?[23:48:49] <_hugo> eh?[23:48:56] <Thom_Holwerda> soliaire[23:49:12] <gotaku> No crap games like gnome has.[23:49:52] <Thom_Holwerda> oh btw _hu[23:49:57] <Thom_Holwerda> _hugo: http://cogscanthink.blogsome.com/2007/04/27/in-haiku-ii/[23:50:09] <Thom_Holwerda> couldnt resist, you may hit me in return[23:50:14] *** korli has quit IRC[23:50:21] <_hugo> well, it's true[23:50:22] <Sloar> how about bundling emulators like aranym for atari falcon emulation, e-uae for amiga emulation, sheepshaver for mac os ppc emulation, basilisk for 68k mac emulation and pearpc for osx on haiku, and a wine port?[23:50:30] <gotaku> What about mame?[23:50:35] <Sloar> that too[23:50:38] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[23:50:43] <_hugo> Sloar: no point in bundling stuff 0.1% of the people will use[23:51:00] <gotaku> I think more then 0.1% will use mame ;)[23:51:08] <_hugo> yeah, 0.2%[23:51:20] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: the funny part is that it was actually a pretty popular image viewer back in the day :P[23:51:28] <mmu_man> Sloar I ported PearPC once :)[23:51:32] <Thom_Holwerda> so ive heard :)[23:51:34] <mmu_man> not sure it'd build anymore[23:51:49] <Sloar> where?[23:51:51] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: also, if that's #haiku, II, what was #haiku, I ?[23:51:56] <mmu_man> DeadYak maybe because it was usable with one hand ?[23:52:00] <gotaku> Alright then, does Haiku need any applications that need or should be shipped in R1?[23:52:02][23:52:12] <DeadYak> mmu_man: XD[23:52:16] <_hugo> gotaku: useful stuff that people will use[23:52:20] <_hugo> i.e. a browser[23:52:27] <_hugo> thats something 99% of the people will use[23:52:27] <Thom_Holwerda> DeadYak: http://cogscanthink.blogsome.com/2007/04/23/in-haiku/[23:52:37] <Sloar> good email client[23:52:45] <_hugo> mmu_man: indeed it was[23:52:46] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: I'd almost pay money to see that[23:52:55] <Thom_Holwerda> heh[23:53:12] <mmu_man> I think nplay was mostly one-hand ready[23:53:16] <gotaku> Hm...[23:53:19] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC[23:53:21] *** shackan has joined #haiku[23:53:26] <mmu_man> not really made it so on purpose[23:53:37] <_hugo> i use mplayer, it works with one hand, pretty handy, generally[23:53:38] <mmu_man> the most pr0n I watched with it was Austin Powers :D[23:53:56] <Thom_Holwerda> o..k[23:54:03] <Thom_Holwerda> its like night here[23:54:03] <_hugo> i mean, if a program is usable with one hand, its user friendly[23:54:06] <Thom_Holwerda> so, goodnight[23:54:07] <DeadYak> mmu_man: you go for the chest shag then? :P[23:54:08] <Thom_Holwerda> ttyl[23:54:11] <DeadYak> night THom[23:54:12] <_hugo> by thom[23:54:15] <_hugo> bye even[23:54:19] *** Thom_Holwerda has quit IRC[23:54:34] *** Begasus_bbl has quit IRC[23:54:59] <Sloar> anyone have the book to port unix apps to beos?[23:55:14] <_hugo> Sloar: what book?[23:55:17] <DeadYak> there was a book?[23:55:20] <mmu_man> "Would you try the wilber or teh praying donkey or the chinese shagswing ?"[23:55:23] <Sloar> yes[23:55:24] <DeadYak> and have fun trying that for anything graphical[23:55:28] <Sloar> let me find it[23:55:33] <mmu_man> "do you smoke after sex ?" "I don't know baby, I never looked"[23:55:41] <DeadYak> hahaha[23:55:43] <_hugo> :>[23:55:44] <mmu_man> Sloar not at hand[23:56:05] <Sloar> you have seen it though?[23:56:12] <mmu_man> DeadYak well it's doable: http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_zeta_pretty_toolbar_speedbar_scrollbar.png[23:56:26] <DeadYak> mmu_man: you've been working on that for how many years now? :P[23:56:35] <_hugo> mmu_man: you keep pasting this xemacs torture[23:56:35] <mmu_man> hmm maybe 4[23:56:39] <mmu_man> not full time =)[23:56:49] <_hugo> emacs kills your hands[23:56:55] <_hugo> emacs kills you![23:57:01] *** [Katisu] has joined #haiku[23:57:19] <Sloar> http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=4-9781558605329-2[23:57:23] <Sloar> thats the book[23:57:26] <mmu_man> EscapeMetaAltControlShift roxor[23:57:39] <mmu_man> Sloar never read it really[23:57:52] <Sloar> sell it to me on ebay then[23:58:12] <_hugo> Sloar: you dont need a book to port unix applications to beos[23:58:17] <_hugo> you just need to strip them linuxisms[23:58:20] <_hugo> and compile[23:58:23] <_hugo> *them from[23:58:26] <DeadYak> what version of BeOS was that written against? :P[23:58:27] <Sloar> i need more than a book believe me[23:58:40] <Sloar> release 3[23:58:49] <DeadYak> OUCH[23:58:59] <DeadYak> now I know why mmu never read it[23:59:05] <Sloar> i need all the help i can get[23:59:20] <_hugo> i had a Beta 1 CD, or Beta 2. don't remember anymore[23:59:24] <_hugo> or was it R2[23:59:34] <_hugo> came with the be developer's guide[23:59:38] <DeadYak> PR2?[23:59:40] <DeadYak> or DR8?[23:59:42] <_hugo> yeah, PR2[23:59:59] <Sloar> i have beos bible and advanced topics books