[00:00:03] *** oco has quit IRC
[00:00:06] <DaaT> Begasus: sure, blame it all on me!!!
[00:00:13] <DaaT> judgen: don't worry about it
[00:00:14] <Begasus> np judgen ... you can always post news to me ;)
[00:00:30] <Begasus> like that's the first time DaaT ... :p
[00:00:37] <DaaT> :)
[00:00:46] <judgen> ill post news eventually.
[00:01:01] <judgen> Begasus: any news no im_kit?
[00:01:13] <Begasus> not realy judgen
[00:01:13] <judgen> on*
[00:01:20] <Begasus> dev has been quiet lately
[00:01:53] <judgen> Begasus: i would like im popper to provide me with the image when someone logs in. Migth be hard, But i would love it
[00:01:54] <Begasus> they are in need of dev's ;)
[00:02:09] <Begasus> the buddy icon judgen?
[00:02:13] <judgen> ill llook in to it
[00:02:16] <Begasus> should be possible
[00:02:21] <judgen> but me speciallity is java =P
[00:02:32] <Begasus> that's another field ;)
[00:02:55] <Begasus> but who knows ... maybe we can convert you to c++ ;)
[00:04:34] <judgen> when we get java running on haik, we will soon all use my tax frogram, wetheryou like it or not =P (atleast it better than SPCS Tax)
[00:04:48] <Begasus> rofl ..
[00:04:59] <judgen> sorry for my spelling, i dont code thi bad
[00:05:01] <Begasus> using tax on web here ;)
[00:05:17] <Begasus> online tax service from our goverment ;)
[00:05:25] <judgen> Begasus: Tax was on of main competitors =P
[00:05:33] <Begasus> :))
[00:05:54] <Begasus> not your's alone ;)
[00:05:57] <judgen> we went down, due to overwhelming "cometition" lol
[00:06:03] <judgen> almost like be
[00:06:32] *** Ithamar has joined #haiku
[00:06:32] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Ithamar
[00:06:39] <DaaT> you should have shifted your focus
[00:06:40] * Begasus bits thounge ...
[00:06:41] <DaaT> Ithamar!!!!
[00:06:44] <Begasus> hi Ithamar!!
[00:06:46] <judgen> all employees did ony use BeOS though (my idea) and it saved me a bundle compared to windows
[00:06:51] <Ithamar> hey peeps ;)
[00:06:59] <Begasus> rofl
[00:07:05] * Begasus slaps DaaT
[00:07:08] <judgen> though i admit 25% or you installs of gobe was illegimate
[00:07:08] <DaaT> oh no... another one with "peeps"
[00:07:11] <Begasus> see Ithamar uses it also
[00:07:12] <Begasus> :P
[00:07:13] * DaaT kicks Begasus
[00:07:15] <Ithamar> judgen: where was that?
[00:07:18] <Begasus> w00t
[00:07:22] <[Beta]> Hey Ithamar
[00:07:29] <Ithamar> hey [Beta]
[00:07:34] <judgen> Ithamar: sweden
[00:07:44] <Ithamar> I mean company :P
[00:08:12] <mmu_man> hey Ithamar!
[00:08:17] * Ithamar pets mmu_man
[00:08:19] <mmu_man> plop
[00:08:20] <judgen> Ithamar: its legal to make copies and stuff, but the admin used it illegally i think on some computers. (i cant proove it though)
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[00:08:45] <Ithamar> just wondering what company/group used BeOS exclusively
[00:08:51] <judgen> the company i worked for was called DE Revision
[00:08:53] * Ithamar remembers one.... ;)
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[00:09:02] <Begasus> hehe
[00:09:05] <Begasus> you would yes ;)
[00:09:13] <judgen> Ithamar: we had at most 59 emplyees...
[00:09:20] <Begasus> wow judgen
[00:09:28] <Ithamar> impressive judgen
[00:09:34] <DaaT> very
[00:09:38] <Begasus> so what went wrong?
[00:09:57] <judgen> Ithamar: good for them that BeOS usage is considered an merit in the swedish work-appliance system
[00:10:28] <judgen> Begasus: Tax busted us out. SCPCS is to big to tangle with
[00:10:36] <judgen> though we put up a good fight
[00:10:41] <Ithamar> anyhow, where's Axel? :P
[00:10:46] <kokito> Ithamar!!
[00:10:56] * Ithamar waves to kokito
[00:11:07] <Begasus> tax doesn't bust you with no reason normaly judgen ;)
[00:11:12] <Ithamar> lol
[00:11:15] <Ithamar> true Begasus
[00:11:18] <judgen> Tax is a program
[00:11:25] <dr_evil> Ithamar he was here yesterday
[00:11:26] <judgen> launced by spcs
[00:11:33] <Ithamar> ah ok :$
[00:11:39] <judgen> taxes on the other hand is safe
[00:11:46] <Begasus> ah so the competition busted you out? ;)
[00:11:52] <judgen> Begasus: yeah
[00:11:55] <CIA-18> mmu_man * r20829 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/ (urlwrapper.cpp urlwrapper.h urlwrapper.rdef):
[00:11:55] <CIA-18> Cleaned up protocol configuration. Put compile-time config in a header file, so the rdef doesn't include mimes for urls we won't support.
[00:11:55] <CIA-18> Added http: support with wget in a Terminal.
[00:12:01] <Begasus> that's another story ...
[00:12:06] <Begasus> that s*cks judgen
[00:12:35] <judgen> oooh anoter read, too bad the b ot dowsent provide the lines that is cnahged.
[00:12:53] <judgen> sorry for my spelling once again
[00:12:54] <Ithamar> that would be too much on productive days judgen ;)
[00:13:34] <mmu_man> korli
[00:13:37] <judgen> Begasus: spcs is like microsoft (and they seem to have an illegal alliance)
[00:13:39] <mmu_man> gahh, now he's gone :)
[00:14:01] * DeadYak prods Ithamar
[00:14:06] <dr_evil> Begasus I attached the ps2 bus manager to the bugreport
[00:14:11] * Ithamar pets DeadYak
[00:14:16] <DeadYak> he lives!
[00:14:16] <Begasus> and mostly to hard to prove those arguments judgen ...
[00:14:19] <Begasus> thnx dr_evil
[00:14:29] <judgen> i would love haiku to have an comlete(or almost comlete) jwm so my apps would compile.
[00:14:32] <Begasus> will try in the morning and report
[00:14:41] <CHodapp> jwm?
[00:14:48] <judgen> Begasus: exactly
[00:15:05] <DeadYak> CHodapp: JVM
[00:15:33] <Begasus> just like M$ claimed that there couldn't be another OS on the pc's Windows was installed on judgen ....
[00:15:39] <CHodapp> ew!
[00:15:49] <Begasus> hehe
[00:16:00] <judgen> Begasus: i cant proove anything. But look at the taxes program market in europe. spcs either owns the company that produces it or produces it as a standalone company, People like me are screwed,
[00:16:03] <dr_evil> Begasus can you test this now?
[00:16:15] <Begasus> I'll have to reboot to Haiku ..
[00:16:20] <Begasus> but it's possible yes
[00:16:38] <Begasus> let me boot the pc and then reboot the laptop to Haiku
[00:16:47] <Begasus> after downloading the busmanager ...
[00:16:53] <judgen> Begasus: abandoned zeta?
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[00:17:58] <Begasus> nope judgen
[00:18:01] <Begasus> not at all
[00:18:07] <Ithamar> dr_evil: nice work with JMicron, it will make my SATA interface on this box work :P
[00:18:21] <Begasus> strange how people put you in a corner ;)
[00:18:23] <judgen> Begasus: i love bernd, and i thin he will win this legal batt.e but after 2008 it will be harder since germany became a "puppet patent state".
[00:18:44] <Begasus> I'm not arguing about that here judgen ;)
[00:18:51] <judgen> i read that in value germany is doing 12% of all world exports..... that humongous
[00:18:53] <Ithamar> LoL
[00:19:00] <judgen> china is doing 6%
[00:19:11] <judgen> america less than 4%
[00:19:38] <judgen> thats really bad for me
[00:19:45] <Begasus> just released a new icon theme judgen ;)
[00:19:54] <judgen> Begasus: COOOOOL
[00:19:57] <Ithamar> dr_evil: If you need any help testing/tuning, feel free to bug me about it
[00:19:58] <judgen> url?
[00:20:02] <CHodapp> so... who owns original BeOS again?
[00:20:11] <DeadYak> Access
[00:20:14] <Ithamar> yup
[00:20:15] <_hugo> CHodapp: i do
[00:20:21] <CHodapp> _hugo: omg pics
[00:20:24] * _hugo hugs beos
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[00:20:38] *** Ithamar sets mode: +o Begas_
[00:20:57] <judgen> all you americans, could you please tell your president (or local congressman) that you need subsidies t local raw-materal companies
[00:21:03] <Ithamar> damn, I get so used to doing that to you Begas_ :$
[00:21:05] <Begasus> ;)
[00:21:07] <judgen> would help me alot =)
[00:21:12] <Begasus> lol
[00:21:13] <DaaT> lol Ithamar
[00:21:15] <CHodapp> judgen: he don't care about no submarines and raw-material craps
[00:21:19] <Begasus> so reboot to Haiku
[00:21:23] <Ithamar> old habits die hard ;)
[00:21:24] *** Begasus has quit IRC
[00:21:25] *** Begas_ is now known as Begasus
[00:21:28] <[Beta]> subs dont fix the problems!
[00:21:32] <judgen> CHodapp: its not Be/Palm thats for sure
[00:21:45] <CHodapp> judgen: bush is too busy slaughterin terrists who are taking our FREEDOM(tm)
[00:21:48] *** Begasus sets mode: -o Begasus
[00:21:52] <Begasus> there ;)
[00:22:07] <Begasus> so keeping fingers crossed dr_evil
[00:22:23] <CIA-18> marcusoverhagen * r20830 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/media-add-ons/dvb/ (DVBMediaNode.cpp MediaStreamDecoder.cpp): added some workarounds for haiku, needs to be fixed later...
[00:22:35] <judgen> CHodapp: hehe and youll get anoter "bush" when jeb wins. And ill get even more money because of the internal neglect.
[00:23:02] <judgen> CHodapp: i really like the usa but i like money more
[00:23:07] <Begasus> dr_evil ... works !!!
[00:23:15] <CHodapp> judgen: I like freedom and a lack of corrupt politicians more
[00:23:24] <Begasus> I can use the keyboard again in Haiku :d
[00:23:33] <CHodapp> haiku has keyboard support?!?!?!
[00:23:36] <dr_evil> Begasus thats really good news, does the mouse still work?
[00:23:43] <judgen> CHodapp: didnt you choose thw wrong nation then?
[00:23:48] <Begasus> usb mouse still working
[00:23:58] <Begasus> touchpad also working
[00:24:02] <Begasus> great!!
[00:24:08] <Ithamar> cool
[00:24:13] <judgen> how wonderful if all people in the world could live in switzerland.
[00:24:26] <DeadYak> judgen: I miss living there
[00:24:28] <DaaT> oh no... now Begasus can be a pita in yet another OS
[00:24:31] <DaaT> just great
[00:24:36] <judgen> DeadYak: i love it there
[00:24:41] <Begasus> wacht it DaaT :P
[00:24:44] <DeadYak> I lived in Lausanne for 6 years
[00:24:50] <DaaT> i am watching it!! that's why it's sad
[00:24:51] <Begasus> err r... watch *
[00:24:51] <DaaT> :P
[00:24:58] <Begasus> hehe
[00:25:07] <judgen> DeadYak: but a beer over there is almost as expensive as going on safari in the kalahari
[00:25:14] <Begasus> now I need a workign version of Vision ;)
[00:25:17] <DeadYak> judgen: yeah, no question there
[00:25:25] <DeadYak> Begasus: I thought it already worked in Haiku
[00:25:36] <Yez> Vision does work in Haiku
[00:25:41] <dr_evil> Begasus the ps2 mouse will be slow because of debug output
[00:25:42] <Yez> but it doesn't save settings
[00:25:54] <judgen> does chatzilla work in BeOS/haiku?
[00:25:55] <dr_evil> the non debug version will be smooth
[00:25:55] <DeadYak> no idea what's up with that, all it does is write a flattened BMessage
[00:26:00] <Begasus> the mouse is still usb so that is not a prob here dr_evil
[00:26:13] <DeadYak> Begasus: touch pad though?
[00:26:13] <dr_evil> ok, touchpad then
[00:26:18] <Begasus> works yep
[00:26:29] <judgen> Begasus: any local beer flavours you can recomend this time?
[00:26:30] <Begasus> works fine
[00:26:39] <Begasus> Jupiler judgen ;)
[00:26:43] <Begasus> always :))
[00:26:50] <dr_evil> k, you probably have no serial debug activated
[00:26:54] <judgen> jupiler? is it expensive =P
[00:27:08] <Begasus> no dr_evil .. serial debug is not enabled
[00:27:11] <dr_evil> mouse is unuaseable with serial debug output of ps2 bus manager
[00:27:12] <Begasus> only syslog atm
[00:27:14] <Ithamar> anybody knows if there's any more BeGeistert's planned?
[00:27:18] <Begasus> ah k
[00:27:26] <judgen> Begasus: systembolaget only carries expensive produvts....
[00:27:43] <Begasus> afaik in the spring or so Ithamar ...
[00:27:51] <Begasus> if I read the mailing list correct
[00:27:57] <Begasus> err .. fall
[00:27:59] <judgen> its a monopolie here in sweden, NO ONE excet systembolaget is allowed to sell alcohol
[00:28:00] <DaaT> this is spring time...
[00:28:01] <DaaT> ahhhh
[00:28:06] <Begasus> ;)
[00:28:08] <Begasus> few ;)
[00:28:09] <DaaT> so this spring is skipped
[00:28:10] <DaaT> too bad
[00:28:15] <Begasus> yes really
[00:28:29] <DeadYak> DaaT: I'll never forget your creative time finding the hotel :P
[00:28:31] <Begasus> well according to stippy's mails in the list
[00:28:41] <Begasus> probly also due to the work in the hotel
[00:28:47] <judgen> DaaT: i want more news..... get cfackgin!!!!
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[00:28:51] <Begasus> rofl
[00:28:53] <judgen> cracking
[00:28:56] <DeadYak> get what?
[00:28:57] <DeadYak> oh.
[00:29:09] <judgen> im addicter to new
[00:29:20] <DaaT> DeadYak :PPPPPPPPPPPP
[00:29:33] <DaaT> judgen: i don't make the news
[00:29:47] <judgen> thats why i bother to read osnews.comeven though i feel that everyone the except thom and eugenia is retards
[00:30:01] <Ithamar> lol
[00:30:07] <DeadYak> judgen: hahahahaha
[00:30:23] <Ithamar> just don't read the comments :P
[00:30:24] <DaaT> Begasus: know when the hostel at dusseldorf is ready? was it mentioned?
[00:30:26] <DeadYak> the comments sections have seriously degraded
[00:30:29] <judgen> once again, excuse my spelling
[00:30:45] <Begasus> not mentioned DaaT
[00:30:48] <DaaT> DeadYak: stopped reading the comments a long time ago
[00:30:49] <DaaT> thx Begasus
[00:31:16] <Begasus> np
[00:31:19] <DeadYak> DaaT: they can be interesting for smaller/more obscure topics, if it mentions an even halfway well-known OS, forget it
[00:31:20] <judgen> DeadYak: yrah i know, i have 1.7* in comens. Because some retards didnt like my positive views
[00:31:31] <DaaT> still
[00:31:44] *** Mazon is now known as mazon
[00:31:47] <Begasus> dr_evil do you need the syslog for the ticket?
[00:31:56] <Begasus> last syslog that is ...
[00:32:06] <judgen> DeadYak: if someone posts more than 50 injectiosn i wont even read it..
[00:32:14] <dr_evil> Begasus if it's available, please attach
[00:32:22] <Begasus> k
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[00:35:33] <Yez> well, I can use Net+ in Haiku though it is slow and not too useful.  I still can't get Firefox to run.  tried current version, 1.6 and an older version...
[00:36:58] <Begas_> so ... added syslog to the ticket dr_evil
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[00:37:26] <Ithamar> Hey Begas_, still the same Vision quit message :)
[00:37:37] <Begas_> yep Ithamar ;)
[00:37:47] <Begas_> that's me ... sticking to the old routine :D
[00:37:49] <DaaT> "can't teach new tricks to old....."
[00:37:50] <DaaT> :P
[00:37:56] <Begas_> hehe
[00:38:13] <Begas_> you should know DaaT ... you're getting there <eg>
[00:38:31] <DaaT> i know
[00:38:54] <DaaT> but i'm "getting", you've grown roots already from _being_ there :D
[00:38:55] <DaaT> grandpa
[00:39:12] <Begas_> hey ... that's kokito .. not me :P
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[00:39:37] <dr_evil> Ithamar this hardware bug was nice http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1175#comment:4 (it's the Begasus keyboard bug)
[00:39:43] <DaaT> ups, i thought there was something wrong with that :P
[00:39:44] <DaaT> sorry
[00:40:23] <Begas_> rofl ... the 'Begasus keyboard bug' .... ;)
[00:41:12] <Ithamar> dr_evil: PS2 is evil :)
[00:41:28] <Begas_> geuss that's how he got his name ;)
[00:42:03] *** Begas_ is now known as Begasus
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[00:42:19] <Begasus> hi Atomozero!
[00:42:31] <DaaT> hey Atomozero
[00:42:50] <Atomozero> hi :)
[00:43:33] <Begasus> Atomozero ... --> the guy from the cad app?
[00:43:39] <judgen> Begasus: does chatzilla wrok ni haiku?
[00:43:55] <Begasus> memory is going down at this hour ;)
[00:44:03] <Begasus> haven't checked judgen
[00:44:23] <dr_evil> Begasus yes, keyboard controller works normal again for you
[00:44:24] <dr_evil> 828 	KERN: ps2_write_data 0xff
[00:44:24] <dr_evil> 829 	KERN: ps2_interrupt: ctrl 0x15, data 0xfa (keyb)
[00:44:24] <dr_evil> 830 	KERN: ps2: ps2_dev_command wait for ack res 0x00000000, wait-time 288
[00:44:24] <dr_evil> 831 	KERN: ps2_interrupt: ctrl 0x15, data 0xaa (keyb)
[00:44:24] <Atomozero> i am on haiku testing =)
[00:44:25] <Begasus> to use chatzilla you need to be able to run Mozilla/SeaMonky
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[00:44:36] <judgen> in using wnidwos at the emomwnt
[00:44:44] <Begasus> great dr_evil thnx for the fix!!
[00:44:46] <DaaT> yes Begasus, from atomocad :)
[00:44:46] <dr_evil> the ff goes to the keybaord with the 0xae workaround :)
[00:44:49] <dr_evil> good night
[00:44:57] <Begasus> g'night dr_evil
[00:45:03] <Ithamar> night dr_evil
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[00:45:06] <judgen> atmocad is just AMAZNG
[00:45:26] <CIA-18> mmu_man * r20831 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/ (urlwrapper.cpp urlwrapper.h urlwrapper.rdef):
[00:45:26] <CIA-18> Fix app sig and put it at a single place.
[00:45:26] <CIA-18> Add support for NetPositive bookmarks, so one can for ex place a bookmark on the desktop with an http: dl link for moz with pref app set to urlwrapper. *hint* Korli :)
[00:45:37] <Begasus> haven't seen it in a while though ... ;)
[00:45:52] <Begasus> last time was at BG ... and that was also a while back
[00:46:20] <judgen> check it out, its great
[00:46:33] <Begasus> I did .. at the time ;)
[00:47:20] <judgen> is there any app to change net-configs in zeta that isnt depending no the libzeta.se?
[00:47:34] <judgen> libzeta.os.
[00:47:42] <Begasus> .so
[00:47:45] <judgen> damn my spelling
[00:47:48] <Begasus> ;)
[00:48:00] <mmu_man> judgen vi :)
[00:48:15] <Begasus> you can change the settings in any editor ...
[00:48:21] <judgen> i write faster than i think... not good
[00:48:45] <mmu_man> I write much slower than I think
[00:48:52] <mmu_man> but I type faster than I write :)
[00:48:59] <judgen> mmu_man: nano works fingr, but im thinking of a more GUI one
[00:49:00] <Ithamar> I write _more_ then I think :P
[00:49:09] <mmu_man> StyledEdit ? :)
[00:49:12] <DeadYak> mmu_man: my handwriting is illegible :P
[00:49:16] <DaaT> that's not hard to do Ithamar
[00:49:17] <mmu_man> so is mine
[00:49:19] * DaaT hides
[00:49:22] <judgen> mmu_man: haha best evef
[00:49:24] <judgen> ever
[00:49:25] * Ithamar troutslaps DaaT
[00:49:28] <DeadYak> mmu_man: I vote for 'ed'
[00:49:33] <DaaT> :P
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[00:49:47] <Ithamar> going down memory lane DaaT :P
[00:49:48] <DeadYak> or better yet, what was that editor back in DOS... EDLIN.COM ?
[00:50:01] <DaaT> if my memory wasn't crap, sure
[00:50:02] <Begasus> Pe ...
[00:50:16] <DeadYak> Ithamar: all I can say is 11PM at the pizza restaurant
[00:50:22] <DeadYak> :P
[00:50:36] <DaaT> nah, 4am for putten steak!
[00:50:40] <Begasus> hehe
[00:50:40] <judgen> wonder why befs was only +r in windos and linux
[00:50:43] <Ithamar> yup, that was a great one indeed... and going back to the office afterwards DeadYak
[00:50:54] <Ithamar> DaaT: Oh man, that BeGeistert..... ;)
[00:50:57] <DeadYak> Ithamar: "This controller still doesn't work. Oooh look, the sun's coming up."
[00:50:58] <judgen> +rwx would have helped it
[00:50:59] <DaaT> so much fun
[00:51:01] <mmu_man> judgen too hard to do r/W
[00:51:06] <Begasus> just as ntfs is only r judgen ;)
[00:51:08] <mmu_man> and also to avoid trashing attributes
[00:51:20] <mmu_man> feel free to fix it :)
[00:51:25] <Begasus> lol DeadYak
[00:51:26] <Ithamar> lol @ DeadYak
[00:51:34] <DeadYak> Begasus: you think I'm kidding....
[00:51:47] <Begasus> no no ... hearing the stories about you guys ;)
[00:51:54] <Ithamar> Everytime I see my laptop I see the 30 odd CDs I burned to get the bloody thing booting from the SATA disks....
[00:51:59] <Begasus> I'm not suprised at anything ;)
[00:52:00] <DeadYak> Begasus: ask Ith about the VIA 642x driver if you don't believe me :P
[00:52:20] <DeadYak> Ithamar: only 30?
[00:52:26] <Ithamar> per day :P
[00:52:35] <DeadYak> attaboy :P
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[00:52:59] <Ithamar> man, the good ol' days....
[00:52:59] <judgen> if beos works flawlessly, would it be a fault to assume that haiku would too?
[00:53:20] <Begasus> the picture from Ithamar strawling arround the tree at BG was one of the better ... ;)
[00:53:27] <mmu_man>  $ touch /boot/home/Desktop/Download\ Mozilla\ Firefox                           $ addattr -t mime "BEOS:PREF_APP" "application/x-vnd.haiku.urlwrapper" /boot/home/Desktop/Download\ Mozilla\ Firefox
[00:53:28] <mmu_man>  $ addattr -t mime "BEOS:TYPE" "application/x-vnd.Be-bookmark" /boot/home/Desktop/Download\ Mozilla\ Firefox
[00:53:29] <mmu_man>  $ addattr "META:url" "http://bebits.com/bob/20795/firefox-2.0.0.3.en-US.beosBONE-i586.zip" /boot/home/Desktop/Download\ Mozilla\ Firefox
[00:53:31] <Begasus> and one of the few time he was awake :P
[00:53:32] <Ithamar> hehe, USB2 development time
[00:53:37] <judgen> my amiga is still in working condition
[00:53:37] <Ithamar> (the pic @ BG)
[00:53:42] <Begasus> ;)
[00:54:03] <_hugo> mmu_man: not much point doing that if it doesnt work
[00:54:05] <judgen> 233mhz 128ram and 40gb disk
[00:54:17] <mmu_man> _hugo well wget works
[00:54:20] <mmu_man> it will download it :)
[00:54:22] <Ithamar> looks neat again mmu_man, you always seem to have interesting ideas for those type of tools
[00:54:27] <_hugo> mmu_man: yeah, its just that firefox wont
[00:54:30] <mmu_man> now I don't know if it works or not yet, it's your job :p
[00:54:34] <Begasus> via-rhine does not work great atm here ;)
[00:54:45] <Ithamar> Begasus: Are you using the driver from bebits?
[00:54:56] <Begasus> that freezes the system here Ithamar
[00:54:59] <mmu_man> Ithamar well that one was korli's I just made it :
[00:55:00] <_hugo> mmu_man: to be honest i've only tried firefox once, and it wasnt running due to some missing lib. i have to check it again
[00:55:02] <Begasus> so the org one from zeta
[00:55:17] <mmu_man> _hugo I recall having an old one start around october
[00:55:32] <judgen> _hugo: i have read what you have done in cvs. my only comment is : keep it up, cere counting on you =)
[00:55:35] <Ithamar> ah ok Begasus..... hmmm somebody should _Really_ sort that driver out
[00:55:36] <mmu_man> locked up before I could type in a url though
[00:55:44] <_hugo> mmu_man: i can't find any links to old ones
[00:55:55] <Begasus> yes ... then I could launch some torrents here Ithamar :P
[00:55:56] <_hugo> judgen: thanks, its been fun
[00:56:17] <mmu_man> http://www.bebits.com/search?search=firefox
[00:56:18] <Ithamar> Begasus: Get me a week of development time and I'll sort it out :)
[00:56:20] <mmu_man> http://www.bebits.com/search?search=mozilla
[00:56:24] <judgen> _hugo: isnt it nice to start from a blank slate?
[00:56:33] <Begasus> I'll hold you to it Ithamar!!
[00:56:36] <Begasus> :)
[00:56:44] <_hugo> judgen: blank slate?
[00:56:45] * mmu_man waits for DeadYak to implement generic url support in Vision
[00:56:51] <DeadYak> EBUSY
[00:56:58] <mmu_man> sh:alert%20plop
[00:57:03] <Begasus> hehe
[00:57:06] <_hugo> mmu_man: yeah, i searched in bebits, but the ones i checked were 2.x
[00:57:07] <DaaT> sure you are DeadYak, that's why you send me urls to funny news
[00:57:09] * DeadYak watches the miracle of open source contribution fail yet again
[00:57:10] <DaaT> *whistles*
[00:57:16] <mmu_man> query:foo
[00:57:26] <judgen> _hugo: it was one of Be´s marketing words =P
[00:57:35] <_hugo> judgen: ah :-)
[00:57:45] <judgen> _hugo: sorry for confuing you
[00:57:53] <mmu_man> _hugo never saw those promotion videos at Be ?
[00:57:55] <_hugo> no problem
[00:58:04] <mmu_man> must have that somewhere
[00:58:11] <_hugo> mmu_man: not sure i know which ones you are refering to
[00:58:16] <_hugo> i saw a bunch of vids back in the day
[00:58:16] * DeadYak throws monitors
[00:58:24] <Begasus> you should use BeShare more often for that stuff ;)
[00:58:37] <Begasus> DeadYak ... from the balkony? ;)
[00:58:46] <Ithamar> lol
[00:58:47] * DaaT throws DeadYak's monitor
[00:58:49] <DeadYak> from the top floor of the building yeah
[00:58:51] <Begasus> rofl
[00:58:52] <_hugo> i used beshare a lot, but that was 2001 or so
[00:59:06] <Begasus> most of us did ;-à
[00:59:12] <Begasus> )*
[00:59:13] <judgen>  blank sale as often as he couldif you look around the www youll see maybe 15 demos of BeOS by our pre-frearless leader JLG sayying
[00:59:13] <mmu_man> beshare:beos_demo*mpg I think
[00:59:33] <judgen> i spell terribly tonight
[00:59:38] <DeadYak> JLG was cool
[00:59:42] <DeadYak> judgen: too much to drink?
[00:59:43] <mmu_man> beshare:firefox should get you some old ones :)
[00:59:47] <judgen> JLG was the king
[00:59:57] <mmu_man> DeadYak fix that url stuff ! :P
[01:00:01] <Ithamar> pre-IPO I agree judgen
[01:00:03] <Begasus> never been crowned ;)
[01:00:09] <DeadYak> mmu_man: you fix it :P
[01:00:10] <judgen> JLG predicted the laptops and was first in the world to create one
[01:00:28] <geist> boy that sure sounds like BS
[01:00:31] <Begasus> well he also did some bad moves in the end ;)
[01:00:48] <DaaT> bad moves? JLG? BLASPHEMY!!
[01:00:48] <judgen> DeadYak: probably the beer. Maybe the gin speaking
[01:00:55] <Begasus> :P
[01:01:06] <Begasus> beer and gin judgen?!
[01:01:16] <DeadYak> interesting combination...
[01:01:25] <judgen> Begasus: yeah =)
[01:01:37] <mmu_man> Ithamar btw, I finally have the video from Numerica
[01:01:57] <mmu_man> http://public.adan.asso.fr/public/NUMERICA07_conference_Haiku_operating_system_divx.avi
[01:02:00] <judgen> thoufh he created the first protable for mac. it still counts as an laptop
[01:02:03] <DaaT> only 800mb!
[01:02:07] <Begasus> hehe
[01:02:10] <mmu_man> 796 :P
[01:02:26] <DaaT> :)
[01:02:37] <mmu_man> judgen I think the STacy beats him :)
[01:02:50] <judgen> damngstreamer
[01:03:03] <Ithamar> mmu_man: downloading....
[01:03:07] <mmu_man> http://oldcomputers.net/stacy.html
[01:03:10] <judgen> me too
[01:03:15] * DeadYak slaps the 30mbit fiber link
[01:03:26] <Ithamar> hehe
[01:03:28] <judgen> your own fault for posting a link on this channel =P
[01:03:39] <Begasus> 30mbit?.... :s
[01:03:44] * DaaT joins in DeadYak's slapping
[01:03:45] * DeadYak points at Ithamar
[01:03:49] * Ithamar pets his 30mbit link
[01:03:50] * Begasus thinks he nees to move ...
[01:03:51] <DaaT> 30 down/up... ggrrrr
[01:03:57] <Ithamar> yups :)
[01:03:59] <Begasus> hehe
[01:04:13] <Begasus> needs*
[01:04:22] <Begasus> judgen .. it's catching :P
[01:04:23] <DaaT> Begasus: also hitting the beer and gin? :P
[01:04:25] <judgen> mmu_man: HOLY CRAP where did you fin that one?
[01:04:25] <DeadYak> time to head home, later guys
[01:04:29] <Begasus> :P
[01:04:42] <Begasus> cu DeadYak
[01:04:47] <Ithamar> l8r DeadYak
[01:04:54] <DaaT> c ya DeadYak
[01:05:11] <mmu_man> judgen I've read old ST Magazines where they showed it
[01:05:14] <Begasus> no gin here DaaT :P
[01:05:25] <judgen> mmu_man: no matter its still only 1987
[01:05:34] <DaaT> ah, just beer
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[01:05:38] <judgen> mmu_man: JLG did it in 1983
[01:05:49] <Begasus> I did it .... *
[01:05:50] <mmu_man> hmm well
[01:05:53] <judgen> Begasus: just beer?
[01:06:02] <Begasus> that's a long time ago judgen .... :P
[01:06:27] <judgen> i also have a 5L moonsine at 80% in my bag that i dont dare to open
[01:06:38] <Begasus> jikes
[01:06:46] <judgen> hehe
[01:06:51] * Begasus stays of the stronger booze ...
[01:06:58] <ajupiter> i Finally got Hiaku built! .. but it just reboots every time i try to run it..
[01:07:03] <Begasus> just a beer now and then is more then enough ;)
[01:07:11] <Begasus> nice going ajupiter ;)
[01:07:18] <judgen> im norrbothnian, we drink booze like water =P
[01:08:03] <DaaT> and it shows too
[01:08:14] * Begasus restrains ....
[01:08:17] <judgen> is it true that frenc people drink every day, and is not considered alcoholis?
[01:08:27] <mmu_man> some do
[01:08:28] <DaaT> depends on the amount
[01:08:31] * mmu_man doesn't drink
[01:08:43] <mmu_man> well like 2 glasses a year
[01:08:45] * Begasus isn't french
[01:08:49] <DaaT> a glass or two of wine with a meal isn't considered alcoholism
[01:08:55] <DaaT> same here
[01:09:00] <Ithamar> ajupiter: Running on real hardware or emulator?
[01:09:03] <Begasus> a botle of two is ;)
[01:09:04] * DaaT doesn't really like alcohol
[01:09:14] * DaaT slaps Begasus for stating the obvious
[01:09:15] <mmu_man> yes... which is highly disputed by docs here, but the alcohol lobby is very powerful
[01:09:18] <ajupiter> Ithamar: real hardware
[01:09:21] <judgen> in sweden. its different. If you drink ONE beer you have to drink till you are drunk
[01:09:23] <Begasus> thnx DaaT ;)
[01:09:31] <Begasus> you realy like me today :))
[01:09:31] <DaaT> my pleasure :)
[01:09:34] <Begasus> hehe
[01:09:37] <DaaT> always
[01:09:38] <DaaT> :)
[01:09:41] <Ithamar> ajupiter: You might want to try a build in QEMU first, just to make sure the build isn't broken in general
[01:10:05] <Ithamar> but assuming that isn't the case, do you have a null-modem cable laying around?
[01:10:09] <Begasus> ajupiter how did you install native?
[01:10:14] <ajupiter> Ithamar: okay, i'll go try that..
[01:11:04] <ajupiter> Begasus: first i did the "jam install-haiku", reboot problem, then "dd"d the image onto the partition, same problem.. :P
[01:11:21] <judgen> Im down and out. im getting up in the morning
[01:11:33] <Begasus> let's hope so judgen
[01:11:36] <judgen> sorry guys
[01:11:38] <Begasus> cu and g'night ;)
[01:11:51] <judgen> nite nite Begasus  =)
[01:11:56] <Ithamar> ok good night
[01:11:56] <DaaT> night
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[01:12:33] <Ithamar> ajupiter: Sounds like the bootloader has issues, did you see the haiku logo before it rebooted?
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[01:13:54] <ajupiter> Ithamar: nope, pretty much immediately rebooted
[01:14:01] <Begasus> g'morning umccullough_work
[01:14:11] <umccullough_work> good afternoon Begasus ;)
[01:14:14] <ajupiter> i'm getting ready to test it in VMWare now
[01:14:18] <Begasus> ah ;)
[01:14:23] <Ithamar> ok, what kind of cpu is in the machine ajupiter?
[01:14:43] <ajupiter> AMD K6
[01:14:46] <Ithamar> video looks nice mmu_man
[01:14:58] <mmu_man> still lots of hmmm :)
[01:15:05] <Begasus> ;)
[01:15:19] <mmu_man> actually I remember spending half the time thinking at pronounciation
[01:15:23] <Begasus> they needed to hand him two mikes ;)
[01:15:24] <Ithamar> ah might be an issue there... don't know how many ppl already tested on AMD K6 yet ajupiter. If it turns out to be that, just file a bug report at the site
[01:15:50] <mmu_man> I should try on my linux server someday
[01:15:55] <mmu_man> K6-2
[01:16:13] <ajupiter> okay, thanks :)
[01:16:14] <Ithamar> that would be an interesting experiment
[01:16:37] <mmu_man> I'll have to swap disks anyway
[01:16:38] <Ithamar> I wish I had time to actually play with these kind of issues
[01:16:41] <mmu_man> 1G is too small :)
[01:16:44] <Ithamar> lol
[01:16:55] <Ithamar> big enough for BeOS :P
[01:17:04] <mmu_man> not for debian :)
[01:17:17] <Begasus> CPU String: mobile AMD Athlon(tm) XP-M 2500+
[01:17:18] <Begasus> ;)
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[01:17:34] <bydi> hahaha i pwnd her
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[01:18:26] <judgen> i got another hour
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[01:18:56] <Ithamar> anyhow, I'm off guys, getting a little rest before going to work.... :(
[01:19:07] <Begasus> so Ithamar ...
[01:19:10] <judgen> she "went to bed" wanting me to tag along,,,
[01:19:18] <Begasus> I'll be looking out for the driver by the end of next week
[01:19:21] <Begasus> LOL
[01:19:32] <Ithamar> If you pay for my holiday leave :)
[01:19:46] <judgen> ill rather do something less "productive" if you know what i mean
[01:19:47] <Begasus> with the money I have atm you want get far :p ;)
[01:19:58] <Ithamar> lol
[01:20:06] <Begasus> anyway .. nice seeing you again Ithamar!!
[01:20:14] <DaaT> night Ithamar *pet*
[01:20:17] <Begasus> slaap ze ;)
[01:20:21] <Ithamar> okies guys, have fun playing with Haiku, and.... I'll be back! (sometime :P)
[01:20:22] <judgen> Ithamar: lovely to se ya
[01:20:59] * Ithamar is going to contact BG team about next BG sometime soon.....
[01:21:02] <judgen> is 16ghx really enaough for BeOS?
[01:21:04] <Begasus> tot een volgende keer Ithamar!!
[01:21:28] <Ithamar> tot de volgende keer Begasus! keep up the good work!
[01:21:37] <Begasus> we doen ons best ;)
[01:21:39] <judgen> haha it will probaböy run on osnews
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[01:22:14] <Begasus> every small step is one step forward ...
[01:22:49] <judgen> i can watch highcoded xvid with BeOS on a 200mhz so i guess my rvwiew wont come out that bad...
[01:24:21] <judgen> btw how many of you have done to the darkside
[01:24:30] <judgen> xbox
[01:24:37] <Begasus> not me ...
[01:24:44] <judgen> me neither
[01:24:47] <Begasus> DaaT did Wii ... :P
[01:24:59] <judgen> wii is just excellent
[01:25:21] <Begasus> don't know ... not much of a gamer myself ...
[01:25:40] <judgen> ps3 and xbox360 offers nothing new, just vetter resolutuin
[01:26:13] <judgen> once again i beg parton for my spelling
[01:26:57] <judgen> wii is the fist console i contemplate to buy since sega megadrive
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[01:27:29] <judgen> i have 168games for it
[01:28:13] <judgen> anyone upp for coding a srg chaos for BeOS=
[01:28:16] <judgen> ?
[01:28:29] <judgen> ill do the graphics
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[01:30:34] <judgen> another app i would like to clone is winrisk(think its opensource now) ww6 did an tremendous work. But it wont compile or start anymore
[01:31:20] <judgen> that game is the second best game ever playerd on beos natiivivly
[01:31:43] <judgen> hard to beat CTP
[01:31:54] <Begasus> what libs does it use judgen?
[01:32:15] <judgen> Begasus: gimme a sec
[01:32:48] <judgen> Begasus: ever tried it?
[01:33:05] <judgen> beg i could post it on my webpage
[01:33:09] <Begasus> nope ...
[01:33:21] <judgen> its free so dont worry
[01:33:24] <Begasus> but as we are in the process of porting games ;)
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[01:33:52] <umccullough_work> judgen, you have a PS3?
[01:34:17] <judgen> umccullough_work: no
[01:34:27] <umccullough_work> ok..just checking :)
[01:34:29] <judgen> umccullough_work: wii is the king
[01:34:40] <Yez> i like my Wii
[01:35:10] <judgen> it might sound silly but ive lost 4kg since ive gotten the wii
[01:35:15] <umccullough_work> i just posted a PS3 article to http://teamhaiku.com/
[01:35:31] <umccullough_work> that's why i was asking
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[01:36:27] <judgen> umccullough_work: i can get one, lol
[01:36:48] <judgen> in sweden a new ps3 costs 400eur though
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[01:37:49] <judgen> i wouldnt buy an xbox at 290 eur so why in hell would  i buy an ps3 ar 400 eur?
[01:37:54] <umccullough_work> umccullough_work, heh, not worth it still ;)
[01:37:58] <umccullough_work> er judgen that is
[01:38:07] <Begasus> :p
[01:38:12] <umccullough_work> not sure what happened there :P
[01:38:13] <Begasus> k .. going down
[01:38:16] <Begasus> g'night peeps
[01:38:19] <umccullough_work> 'night
[01:38:48] <judgen> gnitr
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[01:39:15] <judgen> ive stil got 21 minutes to go
[01:39:26] <judgen> before i have to have sex with that hag
[01:39:41] <Yez> ?
[01:39:43] <umccullough_work> jeez
[01:40:06] <umccullough_work> TMI bud
[01:40:07] <judgen> btw what happens to whomen that turns 30
[01:40:39] <judgen> do they all sell their soul to the devil?
[01:40:56] <Yez> umccullough_work, I play volleyball with some people that supposedly have a couple of extra PS3s laying around their house.  I will see if I can smooze one out of them.
[01:41:15] <umccullough_work> Yez, did you read the post i made?
[01:41:18] <umccullough_work> :)
[01:41:19] <judgen> i know its pathetic, but my whife forced me =P
[01:41:38] <umccullough_work> Yez, not knowing exactly how it works, i believe there's a way to set the team #
[01:41:54] <umccullough_work> at least F@H's FAQ indicates such
[01:42:19] <judgen> BIG questionm, does haiku have support for 48bit lba?
[01:42:21] <Yez> yep, read it
[01:42:46] <umccullough_work> Yez, warn your friends - it apparently eats 200w of power when running F@H
[01:42:47] <Yez> again, first I need to smooze a PS3, then I can try it
[01:43:04] <umccullough_work> ah, you mean smooze it into your own hands? ;)
[01:43:06] <Yez> ouch
[01:43:13] <Yez> of course!!!
[01:43:14] <umccullough_work> heh
[01:43:32] <umccullough_work> you'd be better off having them run it on their electricity bill ;)
[01:44:00] <Yez> hehe
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[04:31:19] <evdubs> hey all
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[05:23:51] <meianoite> DeadYak
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[05:31:44] <JonathanThompson> meianoite
[05:32:00] <meianoite> yo?
[05:32:10] <JonathanThompson> Hi!
[05:32:13] <meianoite> (btw JonathanThompson, check your osnews profile sometime)
[05:32:21] <JonathanThompson> Did you spend any time to read the TRIPS stuff?
[05:32:28] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps, meianoite :)
[05:32:36] * JonathanThompson suspects he has a new friend listed
[05:32:43] <meianoite> you betcha :)
[05:32:50] <meianoite> TRIPS? as in... that new proc architecture?
[05:32:56] <JonathanThompson> Yup.
[05:33:09] <meianoite> well, same new. same old.
[05:33:10] <JonathanThompson> Last night/this morning I read the PDF.
[05:33:23] <JonathanThompson> Actually, it's quite different.
[05:33:40] <meianoite> I'm still waiting for that reconfiguring processor arch I read about ~4 years ago
[05:33:45] <_hugo> berlios is down again..?
[05:34:24] <_hugo> sigh
[05:34:29] <JonathanThompson> I don't know the clock speed (if they have it published anywhere) but TRIPS runs now on prototype silicon.
[05:34:55] <JonathanThompson> And they already have a Fortran and a C compiler for it, plus profiling tools.
[05:35:28] <meianoite> btw, where in the name of Deity did thom got the idea that Cell's SPE isn't 100% PPC compatible?!
[05:35:34] <pyCube> dude!! fortran!
[05:35:52] <meianoite> AFAIK the SPE is functionally identical to the PPC 970
[05:36:07] <meianoite> except that it executes in-order
[05:36:43] <meianoite> and *who cares* about Fortran and C ;)
[05:37:00] <meianoite> I'd love to read how's the ISA like
[05:37:08] <JonathanThompson> From standard C you can then compile all other compilers, that's who :)
[05:37:31] <meianoite> nah, wussies.
[05:37:36] <evdubs> real programmers program compilers in ASM
[05:37:50] <meianoite> I really miss some logical, thought-out ISA on modern archs
[05:37:55] <meianoite> like MIPS's
[05:37:59] <meianoite> Alpha's
[05:38:02] <meianoite> even HP-PA's
[05:38:24] <JonathanThompson> TRIPS has distinct logic to it, which allows it to be a loop-unrolling monster.
[05:38:39] <meianoite> the new SSE4 mnemonics are so absurdly cryptic =P
[05:39:01] <meianoite> someone should bash Intel ISA engineers with a good dictionary
[05:39:08] <meianoite> opened in the few last pages of the M entry =P
[05:39:16] <meianoite> *last few
[05:39:48] * JonathanThompson is awaiting the Open Source Dictionary to be publiished by the Free Word Association
[05:39:55] <meianoite> you know what kind of instruction would rule?
[05:40:02] <DeadYak> what's the distiction between how TRIPS is set up and how VLIW works?
[05:40:12] <meianoite> LOOP from, to, times
[05:40:21] <meianoite> where from and to are code pointers
[05:40:29] <DeadYak> meianoite: did you mean the PPU btw?
[05:40:30] <meianoite> then the CPU itself would unroll the loops
[05:40:36] <DeadYak> the SPEs are the vector units
[05:40:46] <meianoite> DeadYak yes, sorry, duh me.
[05:40:49] <DeadYak> um
[05:40:54] <JonathanThompson> You don't need to explcitily setup several instructions or partial instructions in TRIPS, and the instructions, while prioritized by what the CPU looks at first, always execute overall in the order predicates are fulfilled.
[05:40:57] <DeadYak> the PPU isn't even vaguely 970, it's closer to a 604 in arch
[05:41:06] <DeadYak> albeit at a much higher clock than a 604
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[05:41:32] <JonathanThompson> Only instructions that have their predicates satisfied get executed.
[05:41:37] <joejaxx> anyone here doing a linux/haiku dual boot?
[05:41:38] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20832 /haiku/trunk/ (13 files in 3 dirs): added initial slab code to the kernel. It is still unused, and there is still no VM interaction.
[05:41:39] <meianoite> yeah, but the *interface* is almost a clone of the 970
[05:41:50] <DeadYak> define interface
[05:41:51] <meianoite> as in the exposed ISA
[05:42:31] <DeadYak> exposed ISA doesn't mean  much, the exposed ISA of a P4 is near identical to a PPro's but they're not even vaguely similar chips
[05:42:32] <meianoite> (unless those IBM articles happen to be misleading)
[05:43:21] <meianoite> well, I'd personally not dare to ignore the SSE instructions
[05:43:36] <DeadYak> I would considering the majority of code can't make use of them
[05:44:06] <JonathanThompson> Furthermore, with TRIPS, only one thing is done in each instruction natural word, and as many of those as possible t osatisfy predicates on are executed at once, if the resources exist.
[05:44:08] <meianoite> consider again the use of scalar SSE
[05:44:30] <JonathanThompson> DeadYak, follow the link for the PDF and read it: it's very interesting.
[05:44:43] <meianoite> JonathanThompson btw, you didn't lose me ;)
[05:44:50] <meianoite> I'll eventually read the PDF
[05:44:55] <JonathanThompson> Ok. meianoite :)
[05:44:55] <meianoite> sometime
[05:44:57] <meianoite> maybe
[05:45:00] <meianoite> ;)
[05:45:03] <joejaxx> umccullough: are you around? :)
[05:45:09] <umccullough> joejaxx, just sat down :D
[05:45:18] * JonathanThompson wasn't attempting to lose meianoite
[05:45:33] <umccullough> joejaxx, bbib
[05:47:12] <joejaxx> ok
[05:47:15] <joejaxx> :)
[05:58:07] <geist> PPU > *
[05:58:14] <geist> SPU > PPU
[05:58:21] <geist> HOW CAN THIS BE?
[05:59:20] * meianoite believes geist's pants become soaking wet every time he runs a calculation on the SPU
[05:59:41] <geist> definitely better than doing it on the PPU
[05:59:46] <geist> cause that thing kind of sucks
[06:00:09] <meianoite> that's a compiler issue, no?
[06:00:18] <meianoite> isn't IBM XL smart enough?
[06:00:33] <geist> dunno, I've only ever used gcc
[06:00:39] <meianoite> bleh
[06:00:45] <geist> also the PPU on the cell is dual threaded
[06:00:46] <meianoite> GCC can't hold a candle =P
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[06:01:03] <geist> but this brings up a point, I need to see if i can find some real hard docs on the internals of the ppu
[06:01:08] <meianoite> btw geist, since you're here
[06:01:11] <geist> number of integer units, timing, etc
[06:01:40] <meianoite> is there *any* reason for a Xeon to perform 4x slower than a Duron 1200?
[06:01:53] <meianoite> and yes, I did change -march=athlon to -march=pentium4 =/
[06:01:54] <geist> that's a pretty weighted question
[06:02:02] <geist> which xeon is it anyway?
[06:02:04] <geist> the P4 one?
[06:02:07] <geist> prescott?
[06:02:21] <meianoite> I don't know for sure
[06:02:30] <meianoite> it's a 2.8GHz one, HT
[06:02:52] <geist> probably an earlier P4 based one
[06:02:53] <meianoite> dual-socket, dual-physical, quad-logical
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[06:02:57] <geist> and what code are you running on it?
[06:02:58] <meianoite> probably.
[06:03:13] <meianoite> the userland scheduler testbed =/
[06:03:20] <meianoite> but it's not slower only on my code
[06:03:23] <geist> *shrug* dunno
[06:03:32] <meianoite> but *EVERY* alternative algo in the testbed
[06:04:01] <meianoite> actually, if you compile Daniel's pristine sources and add gettimeofday calls where they sould be, it becomes that slow
[06:04:09] <meianoite> maybe it's the damn kernel =P
[06:04:14] <meianoite> but I can't touch it, unfortunately
[06:04:48] <meianoite> those xeons happen to be the number crunchers of the lab
[06:04:51] <geist> umm, i dont know what all that means
[06:04:58] <geist> bout the gettimeofday, etc
[06:05:09] <geist> sounds like you aren't testing on the same box. is this using the same OS?
[06:05:17] <meianoite> seems that gettimeofday is the most called function
[06:05:26] <_hugo> meianoite: it would help to look at the code, replying to 'why would this cpu be slow than this one' is a very hypothetical question
[06:05:34] <geist> yeah, pretty much
[06:05:44] <geist> and i dont know the setup of the two boxes
[06:06:01] <_hugo> s/slow/slower/ :-)
[06:06:06] <meianoite> code: http://haiku-os.org/files/tvm_scheduler.zip
[06:06:39] <_hugo> meianoite: any particular part you feel is slower? i.e. have you timed it?
[06:06:54] <meianoite> just a sec, _hugo
[06:06:59] <_hugo> k
[06:07:33] <geist> what is the setup of the two machines?
[06:07:40] <geist> are they both running linux or something?
[06:07:51] <meianoite> one runs linux 2.4.31
[06:07:58] <meianoite> the other, 2.6.8
[06:08:14] <meianoite> the 2.6.8 is Suse 9.2, latest patch available for that
[06:08:28] <geist> what was that about gettimeofday?
[06:08:45] <meianoite> _hugo that code is actually BeOS code. you'll have to change the call to real_time_clock() to an equivalent gettimeofday one
[06:09:30] <meianoite> (on tvm_scheduler.c)
[06:10:42] <meianoite> and wrap
[06:10:43] <meianoite> unschedule(cur);
[06:10:44] <meianoite> 	next = get_next_thread();
[06:10:44] <meianoite> 	if (next == NULL)
[06:10:44] <meianoite> 		panic("no running threads!!!");
[06:10:44] <meianoite> 	switch_to_thread(next);
[06:10:55] <meianoite> with a couple gettimeofday calls
[06:11:01] <_hugo> how long are the opcode streams?
[06:11:06] <meianoite> to time the context switch time, naturally
[06:11:28] <meianoite> well, I have no idea.
[06:11:40] <geist> how does that test code work? does it actually swap to another thread?
[06:12:04] <_hugo> it emulates context switching within a single thread it seems
[06:12:05] <geist> does it use setjmp/longjmp or something in user space?
[06:12:09] <_hugo> and just runs a stream of opcodes
[06:12:20] <meianoite> geist, mind that this is still only Daniel's code. my code doesn't have ANY effect on that
[06:12:34] <_hugo> meianoite: ok, but we are trying to understand what it does
[06:12:46] <geist> hmm, not sure how that'd be helpful for timing
[06:12:54] <geist> since it'd be dominated by non scheduler code
[06:13:05] <meianoite> _hugo if you mean TVM threads opcodes, all the (32) threads run exactly this: static op prog1[] = {600, opLoop, '1', opEmit, opEndLoop, opHalt};
[06:13:23] <meianoite> geist I only time that very snippet I pasted
[06:13:32] <meianoite> so that's precisely the scheduler code
[06:13:44] <geist> then how can you get any reasonable timing with that short of a piece of code?
[06:13:55] <geist> like, it should be so fast that it doesn't even show up as a tick
[06:14:25] <meianoite> I accumulate it :)
[06:14:31] <meianoite> and report the final cumulative time
[06:14:53] <geist> still, that's not a good testing methodology
[06:15:05] <geist> a single run of that may be so fast it literally shows up as zero time
[06:15:22] <geist> the P4 may appear slower simply because gettimeofday() may be *more* accurate
[06:16:01] <geist> doubly so becaus eyou have different versions of linux. gettimeofday is likely to be implemented differently
[06:17:02] <meianoite> well, I don't run it a single time. there are roughly 76800 context switches total
[06:17:11] <geist> again, you're missing my point
[06:17:27] <geist> any one of the runsis likely to be so fast that gettimeofday fo a single one is 0
[06:17:38] <geist> you then accumulate 76800 sampels of zero time
[06:17:49] <meianoite> I don't mean it "feels" slow to run, I mean the reported cumulative context switch time is 4x bigger on the Xeon
[06:18:08] <meianoite> NOT simply that the run time is 4x slower
[06:18:13] <meianoite> (even though it IS)
[06:18:15] <_hugo> meianoite: remove the intermediate gettimeofdat() and just have one in the start and another in the end
[06:18:25] <geist> he still doesn't get it
[06:18:51] <_hugo> meianoite: you may actually be timing the gettimeofday() and the 2.4 one be less accurate, thus you accumulate error
[06:18:52] <meianoite> _hugo it IS like that
[06:19:02] <_hugo> so it is not cumulative
[06:19:06] <meianoite> aw, just a sec
[06:19:11] <meianoite> I'll have to paste my local code here
[06:19:28] <_hugo> meianoite: you dont need to. if you are calling gettimeofday() multiple times, dont
[06:20:08] <_hugo> if you are only calling gettimeofday() twice for the whole run (76800 context switches), then its a different story
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[06:22:02] <meianoite> here's the actual code
[06:22:05] <meianoite> gettimeofday(&(tv[0]), NULL);
[06:22:06] <meianoite> unschedule(cur);
[06:22:06] <meianoite> next = get_next_thread();
[06:22:06] <meianoite> if (next == NULL)
[06:22:06] <meianoite>         panic("no running threads!!!");
[06:22:06] <meianoite> switch_to_thread(next);
[06:22:08] <meianoite> gettimeofday(&(tv[1]), NULL);
[06:22:09] <meianoite> cumultive += (tv[1].tv_sec - tv[0].tv_sec)*1000000 + (tv[1].tv_usec - tv[0].tv_usec);
[06:22:42] <_hugo> meianoite: remove the timing code altogether and run "time ./yourprogram" in both machines
[06:22:43] <meianoite> if this happens to be wrong, well, then I'm lost here.
[06:22:46] <_hugo> what are the results?
[06:23:16] <meianoite> just a sec, I'll have to log in on the xeon
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[06:25:37] <geist> that sure looks cumulative to me
[06:25:40] <meianoite> xeon:
[06:25:43] <_hugo> geist: yeah
[06:25:48] <meianoite> real    0m1.386s
[06:25:49] <meianoite> user    0m0.089s
[06:25:49] <meianoite> sys     0m0.652s
[06:25:56] <meianoite> athlon-xp:
[06:26:04] <meianoite> real    0m0.183s
[06:26:04] <meianoite> user    0m0.030s
[06:26:04] <meianoite> sys     0m0.040s
[06:26:05] <geist> these numbers are meaningless
[06:26:14] <meianoite> Hugo asked for them =/
[06:26:19] <_hugo> i did
[06:26:26] <_hugo> meianoite: are these without calling gettimeofday()?
[06:26:29] <geist> note the fact that user time isn't that much different
[06:26:33] <_hugo> geist: yep
[06:26:36] <meianoite> oops. forgot about that, _hugo
[06:26:45] <meianoite> not that much different?
[06:26:52] <meianoite> ah, ok
[06:26:53] <geist> also, which cpus are running which kernel?
[06:26:54] <meianoite> user time.
[06:26:55] <_hugo> you are spending a lot of time in the kernel
[06:27:03] <geist> my guess is the xeon is 2.4
[06:27:28] <meianoite> xeon: Linux afrodite 2.6.8-24.10-smp #1 SMP Wed Dec 22 11:54:27 UTC 2004 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
[06:27:39] <_hugo> same HZ?
[06:27:44] <meianoite> athlon: Linux zeus 2.4.31 #1 Fri Jul 29 18:56:45 BRT 2005 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
[06:27:58] <geist> that's a little surprising, but whatever
[06:28:10] <geist> but anyway, point is the kernel overhead is noise
[06:28:17] <_hugo> i would like to see the numbers without gettimeofday() being called
[06:28:20] <geist> but anyway you still miss our point meianoite
[06:28:28] <meianoite> well... enlighten me =P
[06:28:32] <meianoite> because I'm definitely lost =P
[06:28:36] <geist> if you call gettimeofday() on *every* iteration the numbers are probably meaningless
[06:28:48] <geist> think if it this way
[06:28:51] <geist> time = now();
[06:28:53] <geist> nop;
[06:29:02] <geist> cumulative += now() - time;
[06:29:08] <geist> do that a million times. what do you expect?
[06:30:06] <meianoite> very small number.
[06:30:16] <joejaxx> has bill hayden been around lately?
[06:30:22] <geist> what about
[06:30:25] <geist> time = now();
[06:30:32] <geist> loop (1000000) nop;
[06:30:38] <geist> total = now() - time;
[06:30:43] <geist> what do you expect there?
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[06:31:55] <meianoite> extremely large number due to the fact it runs on user land and the code will be definitely preempted in the mean time. but let's suppose it's not preempted. and let's suppose the caches are hot.
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[06:32:21] <meianoite> I expect a better resolution when you divide the cumulative time by the argument of the loop.
[06:32:38] * geist boggles
[06:32:49] <geist> you're thinking far too hard about this, and not noticing the very obvious stuff
[06:32:55] <meianoite> and... a significantly larger number
[06:33:01] <geist> say time() returns 1ms accuracy
[06:33:31] <geist> it stays the same value until a 1ms tick goes by, and then it jumps by 1ms
[06:33:47] <geist> how would you expect the first example to work?
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[06:34:53] <geist> hint: it doesn't
[06:35:08] <meianoite> I see your point
[06:35:15] <geist> point is, gettimeofday() is returning values with some accuracy (probably not even the same between those two machines)
[06:35:45] <geist> thus you have to arrange for subsequent calls between them for the purposes of recording deltas to be some large multiple of that accuracy
[06:35:53] <geist> so that it's lost
[06:36:19] <geist> and anyway, all that preemption noise and hot caches and whatnot will effect the first test just as much as the latter
[06:36:46] <geist> running these kinds of test on a multithreaded system are always a bit inaccurate, that's life
[06:36:50] <geist> but it's probably accurate enough
[06:37:13] <meianoite> well
[06:37:22] <meianoite> I can arrange to run the code as root, RT priority
[06:37:28] <meianoite> but anyway
[06:37:37] <geist> i seriously seriously doubt it'll make any difference whatsoever
[06:37:52] <meianoite> what if I actually want to time precisely how long it takes to run the context switch code?
[06:38:25] <geist> do you actually really mean 'context switch' or 'find the next thread to run'?
[06:38:35] <geist> the 'context switch' is meaningless here
[06:39:15] <meianoite> since in the sense of this code "context switch" means unschedule current thread and find next...
[06:39:31] <geist> it's not really that timeable
[06:39:42] <geist> how complex is the data structure?
[06:39:56] <geist> are we talking about a bitmap + some linked lists? why bother timing that?
[06:40:23] <geist> generally speaking the idea is to run the same algorithm a zillion times, time the whole thing, and divide by a zillion
[06:40:37] <_hugo> to minimize the error
[06:40:44] <geist> for good measure, you can time a null loop and subract that time off it
[06:40:49] <_hugo> the thing each individual measurement has an error
[06:40:56] <_hugo> if you add up, you are adding up the error
[06:41:03] <_hugo> *the thing is
[06:41:18] <geist> trouble with your 'select the next thread to run' thing is te algorithm is destructive
[06:41:20] <_hugo> so you only actually measure once for a lot of runs, the error is neglegible
[06:41:30] <geist> you can't just keep running it, subsequent runs will be broken
[06:41:54] <geist> and anyway, it being hot in the cache will guarantee that the test really is about how fast it runs with a totally hot cache
[06:42:00] <meianoite> one is a 32-entry array of pointers to threads, ordered by priority. the other one is my code; 40-entry (that will become 120-entry) thread of circular linked lists with thread*'rs as elements
[06:42:03] <geist> which probably isn't meaningful in the real world either
[06:42:16] <geist> yeah, that alrogithm is wayy too small to time
[06:42:24] <geist> since we should be talking a hundred cycles or so
[06:42:38] <_hugo> the best you can do is use rdtsc or similiar to count the number of instructions the processor executed
[06:42:45] <geist> you could acutally use rdtsc to get the cycle count if you want, but it's pointless
[06:42:54] <geist> not sure how you get that on linux, or if it allows you do
[06:44:14] <meianoite> well, how am I supposed to compare my code to some other code, then? and *not* count thread execution time? or I'll just have to count it and then factor it out?
[06:44:28] <geist> you could i guess modify the algorithm to do everything except for actually popping the thread from the queue, so that it's idempotent
[06:44:28] <geist> and then you can run the whole thing in a loop a million times
[06:44:28] <geist> it wouldn't be precisely the same algorithm, but it'd be close
[06:44:46] <geist> you can do what most folks do and just eyeball it
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[06:45:04] <geist> and frankly if it's not obvious which algorithm runs faster, it's probably not important :)
[06:45:35] <geist> doubly so for these levels of microoptimizations for modern x86s. there are so many other factors at play it's hard to measure individual algorithms
[06:45:43] <meianoite> well, as you said before, if I time *everything*, the thread execution time will dominate the switching time by a wide margin
[06:46:00] <geist> scheduing of the compiler, the code aorund it, hotness of the cache, what's going on te other cpu, other virtual threads, etc
[06:46:14] <geist> you can only real time large scale stuff with any real meaningful value
[06:46:37] <meianoite> but hey, you gave me a good idea. 2 minutes, please
[06:46:38] <geist> one of the reasons i'm less interested in this kind of stuff on x86s, and I still geek out over ASM level optimizations on little ARMS
[06:46:48] * Anxiety|Home tells the cpu to run the schdthrs op code
[06:47:34] <geist> meianoite: i think if you're going to time a scheduler you want to time higher level stuff: number of reschedules, number of thread migrations to/from other cpus, etc
[06:47:51] <geist> and run various workloads through it. IO bound threads, cpu bound threads, random threads, etc
[06:48:39] <meianoite> geist, I know so. but consider this is only testbed code that can at most run busy loops.
[06:48:51] <meianoite> by the time I integrate it to the kernel proper, I can do proper testing :)
[06:50:01] <geist> whatever. i sure looks to me like you're still just focusing on the microoptimizations
[06:50:16] <geist> but i have to hope you have other stuff you're doing that you're just not talking about here
[06:50:56] <geist> and that's all i have to say about it
[06:55:39] <geist> _hugo: hows the slab thingy lookin?
[06:56:18] <_hugo> doing good, im making net_buffer use it
[06:56:23] <_hugo> before i start integrating deeper
[06:56:39] <geist> you have it pull it's bits from an area?
[06:56:56] <_hugo> yep, in the kernel i use AreaBackend, which uses create_area()
[06:57:04] <geist> so what happens when it runs out of pages?
[06:57:17] <_hugo> the slab or the kernel?
[06:57:18] <_hugo> :-)
[06:57:21] <geist> the slab
[06:57:34] <geist> that's the trick
[06:57:44] * JonathanThompson notes meianoite is still learning things the hard way, and also notes it wasn't as complex to microoptimize back when he first started, because things were so much more readily determined
[06:57:53] <_hugo> geist: i still havent added the logic to apply pressure
[06:57:58] <_hugo> so the other slabs release stuff
[06:58:05] <_hugo> if thats what you are asking
[06:58:12] <geist> ah, eventually it'll have to dynamically expand
[06:58:19] <_hugo> it does right now
[06:58:21] <geist> that's the biggest problem with the current one
[06:58:24] <geist> so it creates more areas?
[06:58:28] <_hugo> but if create_area() fails it just stops giving objets
[06:58:29] <_hugo> yep
[06:58:42] <geist> i guess there's a chunksize for that?
[06:58:51] <_hugo> yep, which is static right now, but will be dynamic
[06:59:02] <_hugo> ill calculate it based on contention
[06:59:16] <geist> what flags does it set on the area? are they demand paged or wired in?
[06:59:40] <_hugo> NO_LOCK
[06:59:59] <_hugo> the slab has a DONT_SLEEP flag which a no-op right now, but eventually has to make sense :-)
[07:00:12] <_hugo> i.e. allocate a object and dont sleep if there is no more areas
[07:00:39] <geist> k, fair enough
[07:00:56] <umccullough> joejaxx, did you want something earlier?
[07:00:56] <geist> the only real gotcha that needs to be handled is if you allocate something and are given a pointer
[07:01:08] <geist> that memory the pointer immediately points to has to be already mapped into memory
[07:01:16] <geist> (and of course cann't be paged out)
[07:01:53] <geist> the entire area can be demand paged, but the slab allocator needs to at the very minimum touch each page of memory it's about to hand someone requesting an object so they're brought in by the VM
[07:01:58] <umccullough> mmm.. now my POS ECS board with single core 3800+ needs ram
[07:02:03] <joejaxx> umccullough: yes
[07:02:06] <joejaxx> umccullough: may i pm?
[07:02:10] <umccullough> sure
[07:02:23] <_hugo> geist: you mean generally or in case of DONT_SLEEP?
[07:03:04] <geist> generally
[07:03:17] <geist> if it's to become the main kernel allocator that is
[07:03:31] <geist> the classic example is the VM needs to allocate a vm_area structure
[07:03:46] <geist> it grabs one from the slab, then grabs some critical VM lock, and then starts filling it out
[07:03:57] <geist> it cannot tolerate a page fault at that point to bring the page into memory
[07:04:03] <_hugo> ah, but i would expect the VM to use wired memory, wouldnt it be better?
[07:04:06] <geist> so it has to have already been paged in
[07:04:17] <geist> of course, I also expect the slab to be handing everyone in kernel space wired memory
[07:04:26] <geist> but there's wired and wired with demand paged
[07:04:38] <_hugo> right, i mean locked memory, for the VM structures
[07:04:42] <geist> ie, wired permanently, mapped when the area was created
[07:04:49] <geist> and wired only after the first time you touch it
[07:04:50] <meianoite> btw...
[07:05:01] <meianoite> I just stripped the calls to gettimeofday, anywhere
[07:05:06] <meianoite> timed both
[07:05:09] <geist> the latter would be okay as long as the slab makes sure it touches it before it hands memory to the allocator
[07:05:21] <meianoite> timed the OTHER code, not mine
[07:05:29] <geist> haiku uses a different nomenclature than newos did
[07:05:39] <geist> so my descriptions are a bit different
[07:05:40] <meianoite> and the Xeon is still slower. (using time(1))
[07:06:03] <geist> meianoite: that's pretty obvious, did you see the huge sys time before?
[07:06:16] <geist> that linux box appears to be pretty screwy for some reason
[07:06:26] <_hugo> it could have a lot of load
[07:06:32] <meianoite> zero load.
[07:06:40] <geist> not optimized, bad libc, more stuff going on in the kernel, it is SMP, which generally makes for a slower kernel
[07:06:45] <meianoite> xeon: real    0m0.279s
[07:06:47] <meianoite> user    0m0.271s
[07:06:47] <meianoite> sys     0m0.009s
[07:06:56] <meianoite> athlon:
[07:06:57] <meianoite> real    0m0.184s
[07:06:57] <meianoite> user    0m0.190s
[07:06:57] <meianoite> sys     0m0.000s
[07:07:08] <meianoite> and as you see, I'm back to user dominating the total time.
[07:07:13] <geist> good
[07:07:17] <_hugo> geist: as i start pushing the slab bits further in i'll get back to you
[07:07:22] <geist> _hugo: good
[07:07:44] <_hugo> right now i think its a better strategy to use it explicitly in some parts of the kernel, to test it as well.
[07:07:48] <geist> _hugo: also, start thinking about a bootstrapping strategy
[07:07:54] <_hugo> yeah, i've thought about that
[07:08:16] <geist> maybe bootstrapped stuff just gets tucked away into a special slab on the side that doesn't interact
[07:08:41] <_hugo> we could init the first slab from static data just to bootstrap the VM enough so it can start handing out pages
[07:08:50] <geist> or, which is probably more likely, we'll just create an 'area' for the slab to run out of
[07:09:04] <geist> and then create the 'area' after the fact, much like how the current heap works
[07:09:13] <_hugo> right
[07:09:15] <geist> actually that'll be no biggie
[07:16:48] <geist> http://www.marriedtothesea.com/042607/nature-fight.gif
[07:16:52] <geist> NATURE FIGHT
[07:17:11] <_hugo> too many deceases outside :-P
[07:19:48] <pyCube> damn...that was a good egg
[07:22:31] <geist> you likey teh egg?
[07:35:44] <meianoite> hmmm... :)
[07:35:47] <meianoite> hey,  geist
[07:35:50] <meianoite> turns out you're right
[07:35:59] <_hugo> uh-oh
[07:36:17] <meianoite> gettimeofday(), loop 1000000 code(); gettimeofday()
[07:36:25] <meianoite> yielded reeeealy interesting results.
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[07:38:38] <meianoite> "no-op": 115969 (baseline: 1)
[07:38:39] <meianoite> worst case O(n): 10404072 (84x baseline)
[07:38:39] <meianoite> my code: 900279 (7x baseline)
[07:39:17] <meianoite> which is nice :)
[07:52:57] <umccullough> you can run a DDR2 machine with only one DIMM right?
[07:53:00] <umccullough> just slower?
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[07:57:16] <gotaku> Wow, I'm actually getting things to compile in safemode
[08:02:00] <gotaku> I'm now trying to run makefile.all to build all the beos devtool sample code ;)
[08:02:31] <umccullough> i assume you're using R5 headers
[08:03:11] <gotaku> I'm using what ever came in the Beos devtools pack.
[08:04:12] <umccullough> yeah
[08:04:23] <umccullough> including the beos compiler?
[08:04:31] <gotaku> Yes.
[08:04:38] <umccullough> you need to replace it with the one from bebits
[08:04:47] <umccullough> the one that came with the devtools is ancient and buggy
[08:05:06] <gotaku> I'm just using that on for now.
[08:05:13] <gotaku> I'll replace it later.
[08:05:22] <umccullough> http://bebits.com/app/4011
[08:05:25] <gotaku> Hasn't crashed yet...
[08:05:27] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20833 /haiku/trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): assorted slab fixes.
[08:05:32] <umccullough> heh, whatever suits you :)
[08:05:39] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20834 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/stack/ (net_buffer.cpp stack.cpp stack_private.h): net_buffer is the first user of the new slab allocator, let's see how it goes.
[08:05:57] <gotaku> safemode seems pretty stable actually.
[08:07:42] <gotaku> In normal mode, when I tried to compile HelloWorld the machine would always reboot.
[08:08:23] <umccullough> sounds neat...
[08:08:44] <umccullough> last time i encountered a spontaneous reboot was trying to launch firefox about 6 months ago
[08:08:49] <gotaku> Just how much sample code is there...
[08:08:59] <umccullough> recently though, it's been solid
[08:09:07] <gotaku> Yay, it completed without crashing ;)
[08:09:11] <umccullough> but using the old beos R5 compiler seems... pointless
[08:10:16] <gotaku> Why? Do you think the updated one wouldn't work?
[08:10:43] <umccullough> the old r5 compiler isn't even capable of building haiku...
[08:10:50] <umccullough> which is why oliver updated it
[08:11:03] <umccullough> the 2.95.3 compiler on bebits *IS* the one that haiku is built with...
[08:11:30] <meianoite> well, GCC is retarded.
[08:11:54] <meianoite> I *so* hope GCC4 is better at transforming code than 3.xx
[08:12:11] * meianoite must find some time to install GCC4 on his test machine
[08:12:14] <umccullough> for haiku, 3.x doesn't even enter the picture :P
[08:12:27] <meianoite> well umccullough, it actually does :)
[08:12:30] <_hugo> 3.x is le silly
[08:12:35] <meianoite> but kiss binary compatibility bye-bye
[08:12:48] <umccullough> meianoite, why bother? haiku's repo has gcc 4.x already!
[08:12:51] <meianoite> which is not that big a loss, actually.
[08:13:08] <pyCube> binary compat is retarded
[08:13:20] <meianoite> *thankfully*, the kernel bits can be built with 4.x
[08:13:29] <umccullough> the entire image can be...
[08:13:31] <meianoite> only C++ userland is bound to 2.9x
[08:13:36] <umccullough> last i heard...
[08:13:49] <meianoite> now you know what I mean, right :)
[08:14:14] <pyCube> i would argue that it would require less effort to rewrite any sw that you might want to run form old beos days than it is to fumble about with attaining binary compat
[08:14:19] <meianoite> we can build everything that's either C or private C++ with 4.x
[08:14:23] <umccullough> well yeah, but... nobody is going to smear a 4.x-built kernel with a 2.95.3 build userland
[08:14:26] <meianoite> only the exported C++ must be 2.9x
[08:14:45] <gotaku> Ok, I'll upgrade to the new compiler...
[08:14:46] <meianoite> I can't see why not, umccullough
[08:14:57] <umccullough> ugh...
[08:15:10] <umccullough> reminds me of something i ran into a couple months ago actually
[08:15:23] <umccullough> some code that ran faster in 2.95.3 than 4.x
[08:15:38] <meianoite> heh :D
[08:15:38] <umccullough> but within the same project was code that ran faster on 4.x than 2.95.3
[08:15:58] <geist> that's possible
[08:16:02] <umccullough> and the developers noted it in the readme - stating that depending on what you wanted to use it for, you should switch between them ;)
[08:16:11] <gotaku> All the sample programs seem to work... cool.
[08:16:14] <geist> in general I've found 4.x to be somewhat superior for the general optimizations
[08:16:23] <geist> specific optimizations are more hit or miss
[08:16:26] <geist> doubly so if you're non x86
[08:19:13] <geist> i've seen arm codegen move forward and backward between versions of gcc, though in general it gets better overall
[08:20:03] <gotaku> Unless I'm in safemode I can't even seem to run make clean without rebooting.
[08:21:06] <umccullough> sounds like you have a bad driver or something
[08:21:21] <umccullough> video perhaps?
[08:21:32] <umccullough> ATI driver had some issues like that not all that long ago
[08:21:53] <gotaku> At least it's doing it consistently.
[08:22:03] <umccullough> for you anyway
[08:22:34] <gotaku> I mean it's always doing it at the same spot.
[08:22:44] <umccullough> can you make it happen with just the files on the default haiku image?
[08:22:50] <umccullough> or do you have to install devtools?
[08:23:04] <meianoite> gotaku you still didn't snap out of trying to compile stuff under haiku? look, FYI, warm reboots aren't as bad as cold ones, but they STILL reset the HD controller and whatnot, and this translates to MECHANICAL WEAR
[08:23:22] <meianoite> so I suggest you to get over it and stop doing stuff you KNOW is broken =P
[08:23:32] <gotaku> ...
[08:23:35] <JonathanThompson> ....
[08:23:37] <gotaku> I'm using VMware.
[08:23:43] <JonathanThompson> lol
[08:23:46] <umccullough> ooh, even better!
[08:23:47] <meianoite> damn you :)
[08:23:49] <JonathanThompson> A virtual warm reboot :P
[08:24:00] <umccullough> gotaku, are you using the vlance driver or ipro1000?
[08:24:24] <umccullough> vlance is a crap driver... that's why i ask
[08:24:35] <geist> wait, gotaku is trying to build stuff on haiku?
[08:24:51] <umccullough> heh
[08:24:54] <umccullough> just noticed?
[08:25:21] <gotaku> geist: Building stuff seems to work fine in safemode.
[08:25:30] <geist> how many builds?
[08:25:36] <JonathanThompson> How many files?
[08:25:41] <geist> yteah that
[08:25:42] <gotaku> All the BeOS DevTool sample code.
[08:25:48] <geist> no shit
[08:25:50] <geist> wow
[08:26:01] * meianoite believes geist is so flabbergasted he just about to drown in vodca or something
[08:26:08] <JonathanThompson> And it gets through that before exploding?
[08:26:14] <umccullough> hmm... me suspects geist hasn't been paying attention for a month or two
[08:26:15] <gotaku> Yup.
[08:26:20] <geist> i was just generally under the impression that the kernel is too unstable
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[08:26:40] * JonathanThompson wonders how much RAM (virtual or otherwise) gotaku has
[08:26:43] <geist> well, I've tried it myself, though not in the last few weeks
[08:26:51] <gotaku> 256
[08:27:25] <umccullough> last time i tried, it was building haiku jam - which failed miserably
[08:27:33] <gotaku> umccullough: How do I check which driver I'm using?
[08:27:35] <umccullough> i suspect it still does
[08:27:40] <umccullough> ls /dev/net
[08:28:03] <gotaku> ipro1000
[08:28:07] <umccullough> okydoke
[08:28:14] <meianoite> there goes your theory :)
[08:28:19] <umccullough> :)
[08:28:25] <geist> doh, my linux box asplode again
[08:28:42] <geist> though tt i had that figreured out
[08:28:50] * JonathanThompson imagines linuxbits all over geist in a gory display of digital disaster
[08:29:05] <geist>  boy this is annoying
[08:29:06] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[08:29:11] <geist> now it blows up every few days
[08:29:11] <meianoite> oops, not only the box, it seems
[08:29:18] <umccullough> aight, let me try building haiku jam again
[08:29:19] <geist> too slow to debug it easily
[08:29:26] <umccullough> i have all the devtools already loaded on my haiku partition
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[08:30:30] <umccullough> gcc crashes ...
[08:30:32] <umccullough> but no reboot
[08:31:47] <umccullough> ah, and then when i kill the gcc team i get a page fault
[08:32:21] <geist> PAGE FALT HURT U BAD
[08:32:39] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20835 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/kernel/slab/ (Base.h HashStrategy.h MergedStrategy.h Slab.h Strategy.h): gcc 4 compilation fixes.
[08:32:40] <geist> i assume you mean 'an unhandled kernel fault'?
[08:33:06] <geist> well, not gonna hack tonight myself. the linux box took a dirt nap. no booty
[08:33:16] <gotaku> I still don't understand how you would even go about trying to debug those.
[08:33:28] <geist> it's extremely rough
[08:33:29] <_hugo> gotaku: with fairy magic
[08:33:40] <geist> which is why i haven't been able to easily track the problems
[08:33:53] <_hugo> im toothless from all the times i had to call in the fairies
[08:34:02] <geist> generally the system is in some impossible state and you have dig through the clues to follow it back to the source
[08:34:15] <geist> there are probably only 2 or 3 of us that know the kernel enough to do it
[08:34:24] <_hugo> use the source luke! ugh, force
[08:34:27] <geist> to me it's almost always some new code that i dont understand
[08:34:28] <umccullough> ok, i'll try the sample code
[08:35:19] <gotaku> Isn't there a better way?
[08:35:49] <geist> to what?
[08:36:32] <gotaku> It seems way too slow to debug.
[08:36:43] <_hugo> gotaku: what's slow?
[08:37:02] <geist> debugging the core kernel? yea. it's 100k lines of dense asynchronous nightmare
[08:38:28] <geist> it's one of the reasons i got more into embedded stuff after writing newos. big kernels are too complicated
[08:38:47] <gotaku> What about that usermode kernel that axel was talking about?
[08:38:50] <geist> they're fun to work with, but unless you do it every day you forget all the details
[08:39:07] <geist> shrug. sounds like more complexity
[08:39:25] <geist> i think haiku needs to simply focus on stabilizing what it has. too many folks are adding too many features
[08:39:38] <geist> need to get more kernel people on board and do a serious cleanup of the new code added
[08:39:41] * _hugo hides
[08:39:51] <geist> i've seen far too many // XXX this wont really work but it'll do for now
[08:39:58] <geist> in some of the new code. resize_area() is a great example
[08:40:09] <geist> that is a total race condition time bomb waiting to happen
[08:40:12] <gotaku> geist: Do you think Haiku development when a little too fast?
[08:40:22] <gotaku> went
[08:40:28] <geist> i think there haven't been enough qualified kernel people on board
[08:40:31] <umccullough> probably more like - too few resources spread too thin
[08:41:06] <geist> and yeah in some cases in the interest of getting stuff working, some incomplete solutions were put into place that have to be refactored
[08:41:31] <geist> i'm a very conservative coder when it comes to kernel stuff, haiku kernel development has moved far too fast for my tastes recently
[08:41:45] <umccullough> i'm not a fan of "results-oriented" style development
[08:42:11] <pyCube> speaking of /me hides....i think they should have picked kernel that doesnt require that haiku needs to atttract kernel devs
[08:42:22] <umccullough> but unfortunately results are what "sells"
[08:42:25] <_hugo> uh-oh, the flames
[08:42:28] <geist> doesn't matter, they would have needed it eventually
[08:42:59] <geist> and of course that really gets into the whole 'whats the point' questions
[08:43:03] <_hugo> geist: stuff move forward as people see the requirement. not easy to build an high quality piece of software
[08:43:25] <geist> ie, if you built haiku on top of linux, then it's not really a beos clone. is that enough? what if you built it on X, would that be enough? what about win32?
[08:43:45] <_hugo> people used what they wanted, i think those questions are irrelevant
[08:43:50] <geist> right
[08:44:13] <geist> the point seemed to have been to clone beos from the ground up. in that case newos is the best choice
[08:44:24] <_hugo> i think newos was a good choice
[08:44:35] <geist> of coruse you have to actually write an operating system to do that, which at least at the time I thought was pretty silly
[08:45:04] <_hugo> concerning kernel development, good (and motivated) programmers are hard to come
[08:45:13] <geist> right, they're all employed
[08:45:18] <umccullough> lol
[08:45:19] <pyCube> i just dont think it was at the kernel level that beos was "WHOA!!"
[08:45:27] <_hugo> people want to push forward, so sometimes temporary, ugly, weak, solutions are added
[08:45:40] <geist> pyCube: absolutely. in a lot of respects the beos kernel was pretty lame
[08:46:08] <geist> but it did what it did well enough to get beos as far as it went
[08:46:09] <pyCube> so take a not lame kernel, maintained outside haiku.. concentrate on user landy joys of "beos clone"
[08:46:21] <geist> of course beos didn't really succeed, so one can argue if it did enough
[08:46:35] <_hugo> pyCube: the people who actually write haiku and started openbeos took a different path, i dont see the point of such suggestions :-) if you want to code, go ahead
[08:46:47] <pyCube> and dont get bogged down in kernel nonsense until the day comes when you absolutely musst make your own, if that day comes
[08:47:01] <pyCube> its not suggestions at all
[08:47:12] <geist> pyCube: yeah, but you would have had to deal with it pretty closely eventually
[08:47:14] <pyCube> its just thinking outl loud.. opinionating
[08:47:18] <umccullough> pyCube, that's a strategy that doesnt' meet the original goals of Haiku i think...
[08:47:23] <geist> for binary compatibility you would have to write your own user space loader, etc
[08:47:34] <geist> and for that you need a pretty tight knowledge of the kernel you're running on
[08:47:37] <gotaku> What part of the kernel needs the most work?
[08:47:38] <pyCube> thats the other thing.. f**k binary compat
[08:47:45] <pyCube> how completely "un-beos"
[08:47:48] <pyCube> hehe
[08:47:53] <pyCube> thinking backwards?!
[08:47:56] <geist> absolutely, but that's absolutely a requirement of the project
[08:48:01] <pyCube> i know
[08:48:09] <pyCube> again.. just talking
[08:48:17] <umccullough> it's a backwards goal to start from ;)
[08:48:19] <geist> i didn't know the other day that there's a reqruiement for *kernel* binary compatibility
[08:48:26] <umccullough> heh
[08:48:33] * umccullough remembers geist's checkin
[08:48:38] <geist> that severly restricts some things i had planned that would have involved inlining some apis that previously were exported
[08:48:49] <geist> in fact i may have already broken that
[08:48:56] <_hugo> i would have inlined a bunch of stuff a long time ago :-)
[08:49:55] <geist> thankfully the beos user-> kernel space api was more or less completely hidden so it doesn't rear it's ugly head there
[08:50:00] <geist> aside from the fs: segment stuff
[08:52:36] <geist> all this aside, I just dont have the time to work on it as miuch as before
[08:52:46] <geist> and so it goes.
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[09:18:09] <umccullough> 'night
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[09:31:41] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20836 /haiku/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): added locking to slab's Cache<>. Now we react to system's low memory conditions freeing up empty slabs.
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[09:33:14] <Begasus> g'morning peeps
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[10:12:53] <Ingenu> ...
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[10:22:21] <mmu_man> plop
[10:27:34] <joejaxx> anyone here dual booting haiku with linux?
[10:27:57] <mmu_man> I have both on that box yes
[10:28:01] <joejaxx> it seems i cannot get the right grub args to make it boot
[10:28:48] <joejaxx> what does your grub entry for Haiku look like?
[10:29:34] <joejaxx> i followed one example someone gave on the site with the rootnoverify/makeactive/chainloader args
[10:30:28] <mmu_man> I use bootman :)
[10:30:33] <joejaxx> :(
[10:30:37] <mmu_man> installed lilo on the linux partition itself
[10:31:00] <mmu_man> for grub it should just chain the loader just like for a dos partition
[10:31:27] <mmu_man> of course the partition should have been made bootable first
[10:31:32] <mmu_man> with makebootable
[10:31:40] <mmu_man> jam install-haiku should do it
[10:32:57] <joejaxx> hmm
[10:33:07] <joejaxx> i wonder why it is not working then
[10:33:23] <joejaxx> third try brb
[10:34:44] <mmu_man> make sure you count from 0, not 1 the partitions in grub :)
[10:35:30] <raph_ael> hello
[10:38:00] <joejaxx> mmu_man: yeah i did
[10:38:21] <joejaxx> i installed haiku to sda5
[10:38:30] <joejaxx> grr
[10:38:39] <joejaxx> i wonder why this is not working
[10:39:18] <mmu_man> sata ?
[10:39:27] <mmu_man> hmm
[10:39:31] <joejaxx> no
[10:39:33] <joejaxx> ide
[10:39:38] <mmu_man> I'm not sure teh SCSI drivers were ported
[10:39:45] <mmu_man> sda is not ide is it ?
[10:39:52] <joejaxx> it  just comes up as sda on ubuntu
[10:39:58] <joejaxx> ubuntu feisty that is
[10:40:04] <mmu_man> pff ugly linux devfs
[10:40:11] <joejaxx> :P
[10:40:15] <mmu_man> they came up with a hierarchical version
[10:40:18] <mmu_man> then udev
[10:40:23] <mmu_man> yet they still use those ugly names
[10:40:34] <mmu_man> sd is for SCSI devices
[10:40:39] <joejaxx> yeah
[10:41:42] <mmu_man> what does it do ?
[10:42:01] <mmu_man> "What does it do ?
[10:42:12] <mmu_man> How well does it do it ?" (Sean Kennedy)
[10:46:41] <mmu_man> (talking about buying expensive stuff vs stuff that just works)
[11:02:48] * _hugo meeps
[11:02:55] <_hugo> damn, its early
[11:09:31] <mmu_man> it is
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[11:49:42] <CIA-18> mmu_man * r20837 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/HaikuImage: Get urlwrapper in :)
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[11:54:14] <mmu_man> anyone knows why StatCacheServer supports application/octet-stream ???
[11:56:33] <mmu_man> guess not
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[12:25:12] <mmu_man> hmm I get a nice reboot here
[12:25:46] <_hugo> kdl?
[12:27:55] <mmu_man> no
[12:27:58] <mmu_man> plain reboot
[12:28:06] <mmu_man> trying to open a bookmark file with urlwrapper
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[12:40:56] <nielx> does anybody know if Bruno Antunes ever gets here on IRC?
[12:41:42] <myob> never even heard of him...
[12:43:05] <nielx> well, he might have a nice cryptic nickname :-)
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[12:43:53] <[Beta]> like him ^ ?
[12:46:34] <mmu_man> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1183
[12:47:19] <_hugo> mmu_man: if you start it manually does it work?
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[12:48:07] <mmu_man> didn't try open "application/..." .../Download..
[12:48:10] <mmu_man> will do
[12:48:15] <mmu_man> I suspect it will happen as well
[12:48:38] <mmu_man> but running open http://... seems to be less crasshy, it needs several runs before reboot
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[12:57:03] <nutela> Hi guys does anybody have a logitech wireless keyboard & mouse combo?
[12:58:01] <nutela> noone? :-(
[12:59:40] <myob> why? do they not work?
[12:59:47] <myob> I need to get a new keyboard after work tonight...
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[13:07:45] <mmu_man> so, no problem to put the numerica file on google video :)
[13:09:50] <[Beta]> AH, GOODIE
[13:09:53] <[Beta]> oops
[13:13:37] <CIA-18> nielx * r20838 /haiku/trunk/docs/user/apidoc.dox:
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[13:25:08] <myob> [Beta]: CAPSlockPROBlem?
[13:25:31] <[Beta]> been typing in card IDs all morning, was bound to happen :)
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[13:27:05] <myob> card IDs?
[13:28:02] <[Beta]> things off graphics cards, like board/chipset #s
[13:28:13] <nutela> myob mx 3200, with plain r5 and usb no
[13:28:16] <[Beta]> googlevideo: 4% uploaded!
[13:29:05] <myob> [Beta]: oh.... fun...?
[13:29:09] <nutela> are you working on a driver then [Beta]?
[13:29:12] *** myob is now known as myob|lunch
[13:29:31] <[Beta]> myob, its for an idea of mine... so it has to be fun!
[13:29:35] <[Beta]> nutela, nah
[13:31:17] <nutela> oh too bad [Beta] :-)
[13:31:31] <nutela> there are always drivers needed :-)
[13:31:47] <[Beta]> true that.
[13:32:18] <[Beta]> some of these are enough old to have fallen off the internets, so I doubt writing a driver would be easy :)
[13:32:40] <nutela> I have this new wireless keyb and mouse and I see on bebits that one should put it in the usb->ps/2 but keyb and mouse combined?
[13:33:12] <nutela> testing testing always testing sigh
[13:33:50] <nutela> should I buy this Echo Mia, how well will it be supported etc etc oh well...
[13:34:07] <[Beta]> those are a problem. this wireless set has one ps2 (keyboard before boot), one usb (for them both)
[13:34:36] <nutela> huh what do you mean [Beta]?
[13:34:55] <nutela> there is one usb receiver
[13:35:25] <[Beta]> i've a logitech wireless (cant use with beos though, my boxes usb is .. crap), and it has two leads.
[13:35:32] <nutela> with a connect button, I could put this receiver into usb/ps2 adapter
[13:35:47] <[Beta]> a usb->ps2 convertor doesnt work on the usb lead
[13:35:50] <nutela> mine is just a usb key
[13:36:12] <nutela> [Beta] : have you tried the new usb drivers from Haiku?
[13:36:14] <[Beta]> ah, those are the newer ones
[13:36:31] <nutela> mlotz just posted a howto on this blog
[13:36:48] <[Beta]> nutela, not yet :)
[13:37:35] <nutela> I'm wondering wether they will solve the problem, and also wondering wether all these drivers like the Emouse stuff from Slaad is/will be used in Haiku and if it's necessairy
[13:38:19] <nutela> Does BeOS run on intel macs?
[13:38:51] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20839 /haiku/trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): more slab fixes, also introduced a new strategy optimized for medium sized buffers (64 >= x < 512) with lengths other than power of 2 (has an overhead of 2 words per buffer).
[13:38:55] <[Beta]> I couldn't say
[13:39:40] <nutela> yay new haiku update cool
[13:39:53] <nutela> svn and the internet it's getting better and better
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[13:42:17] <nutela> a new Haiku distro with all the bebits stuff should be made expilcitly stating unstable testing version, no need to patch, hassle with millions various drivers on R5
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[13:55:59] <nutela> gtg
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[14:04:02] <stargater> hi all
[14:21:51] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20840 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/slab/Slab.cpp: slab: be smarter when picking the underlying strategy for the slab C API (based on requested object size).
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[15:07:59] <myob|lunch> Dane_: OS-search still ongoing?
[15:08:27] <Dane_> myob|lunch Wish I could hear something back from Jasper.
[15:08:48] <Dane_> Wrote to him a week ago, twice...still no reply.
[15:09:59] <myob|lunch> Jasper
[15:10:36] <myob|lunch> who the hell is Jasper?
[15:10:47] <Dane_> http://www.beosmax.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
[15:10:55] <myob|lunch> ah, Vasper...
[15:10:58] <Dane_> oops
[15:10:59] <Dane_> hehe
[15:11:01] <Dane_> yes vasper
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[15:25:27] <Dane_> Yeah, I'm not sure what's up with Vasillis.  I also signed up for the BeOS Max forum, and he never approved my registration.  I've never had a bad word with him...not sure why this is happening??
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[15:25:50] <Dane_> Maybe he just doesn't like TuneTracker?
[15:26:04] <DaaT> can you blame him?
[15:26:05] <DaaT> :P
[15:26:11] <Dane_> geez
[15:26:12] <Dane_> hehe
[15:26:22] * Dane_ thanks DaaT for the warm words of suppor
[15:26:26] <Dane_> support
[15:26:27] <DaaT> one sec
[15:26:32] <DaaT> awwww.. my pleasure, you know that
[15:26:35] <Dane_> hehe
[15:27:01] <DaaT> to which adress have you been writing to?
[15:28:25] * DaaT pokes Dane_
[15:28:28] <Dane_> sec
[15:28:33] <DaaT> ok
[15:28:36] <DaaT> pvt
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[15:33:43] <Dane_> DaaT Did you get my pvt msgs?
[15:33:48] <DaaT> nein
[15:33:51] <Dane_> bah
[15:33:58] <DaaT> registered? logged in?
[15:34:05] <Dane_> vaspe at beosmax dot org  (missing an r, but that's what it was on the web site)
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[15:39:21] <DaaT> Dane_: got it?
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[16:35:23] <Jixt> hi
[16:36:43] <mmu_man> plop
[16:38:15] <[Beta]> "Less than 4 remaining" <- you know, I think it means hours! (gvideo upload is at 47% done)
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[16:41:14] <mmu_man> :)
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[16:41:54] * [Beta] pokes CIA-test
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[16:42:00] <{V}> oops
[16:42:11] <[Beta]> thought it was a dodgy bot then :P
[16:42:33] <{V}> I was testing the highlighting of my IRC client
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[16:44:54] <Primary> Please excuse my ignorance
[16:45:00] <Primary> but how does one change their nickname?
[16:46:12] <DeadYak>  /nick
[16:46:26] *** Primary is now known as esperantolo
[16:46:31] <esperantolo> Thank you Dead Yak
[16:46:33] <{V}> well done
[16:46:36] <esperantolo> DeadYak: *
[16:46:37] <DeadYak> np
[16:46:47] <esperantolo> Jesus this channel is huge!
[16:47:00] <esperantolo> I've not seen this many people since the early 00's on BeShare
[16:47:12] <DeadYak> it's grown recently
[16:47:25] <esperantolo> aye, good to hear :D
[16:47:39] <esperantolo> How long have you been involved DeadYak ?
[16:47:44] <esperantolo> in BeOS and such like
[16:48:03] <DeadYak> 2000ish?
[16:48:32] <DeadYak> pretty much whenever R5 came out
[16:48:37] <esperantolo> oh ok cool
[16:49:16] <esperantolo> xcasex:  what the fuck!
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[16:49:19] <ddew|bofh> o/
[16:49:32] <esperantolo> xcasex:  i thought you left the community you noob
[16:50:58] <esperantolo> Does anyone know if Soulbender is still around?
[16:51:19] <DeadYak> where have I seen that name.....
[16:51:28] <DeadYak> either OSNews or Arstechnica forums, one of the two..
[16:51:56] <esperantolo> hmm true
[16:52:11] <ddew|bofh> are there any good test "apps" around for doing some heavy testing on the os?
[16:52:23] <DeadYak> gcc? :P
[16:52:24] <myob|lunch> esperantolo: hes on BeShare a lot
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[16:52:28] <ddew|bofh> like spawning a ton of windows or spawning tons of ui components
[16:52:33] *** myob|lunch is now known as MYOB
[16:52:34] <DeadYak> oh
[16:52:38] <DeadYak> not sure there
[16:52:43] <MYOB> generally wanking himself silly over OpenBSD
[16:52:46] <DeadYak> be trivial to write an app that does that though
[16:52:51] <ddew|bofh> indeed
[16:52:54] <esperantolo> hahaha
[16:53:13] <esperantolo> cheers MYOB , long time no see
[16:53:14] <ddew|bofh> so if there are none around i figured i'd cook something up, seems useless to reinvent the wheel though :)
[16:53:31] <esperantolo> Last time I remember
[16:53:41] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: I can't think of one offhand, it's the kind of thing that's generally been avoided due to BeOS's traditional limitations on that stuff :P
[16:53:49] * _hugo tickles everyone
[16:53:50] <esperantolo> me and you had a fight about the linguistic similarity between Eireann and Iran :D
[16:53:51] <MYOB> beshare has more anti-BeOS trolls than BeOS users
[16:54:13] <esperantolo> Oh Soulbender's spent too long in Asia
[16:54:16] <DeadYak> MYOB: seriously?
[16:54:17] <esperantolo> He's gone tropo
[16:54:22] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: that's why i want something like it, to see just how far one can push beos and haiku before it barfs :)
[16:54:38] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: you won't get more than 192 simultaneous windows out of BeOS 5
[16:54:53] <ddew|bofh> *meh* :P
[16:55:00] <esperantolo> ddew|bofh: , crack out the prototype open gl stuff :D
[16:55:02] <DeadYak> at that point you'll crash the app_server
[16:55:15] <DeadYak> not sure what the limit on BViews is offhand though
[16:55:18] <esperantolo> that is enough to blow the shit out of beos
[16:55:23] <esperantolo> well it used to be anyway
[16:56:21] <ddew|bofh> ah well, i can atleast take comfort in that BeOS R5 on a p2-400 with 192MB ram feels faster than GNU/Linux on a Core 2 Duo e6300 with 2GB ram :)
[16:56:39] * _hugo feels faster
[16:57:04] * DeadYak installs _hugo's caffeine accelerator
[16:57:07] <ddew|bofh> Xorg drives me crazy
[16:57:23] <_hugo> DeadYak: just had a nice one
[16:57:36] <DeadYak> _hugo: I need one, I skipped breakfast
[16:57:42] <_hugo> uh-oh
[16:59:10] <esperantolo> hey do any of you cats know TEcknomancer
[16:59:26] <DeadYak> he's on here once in a while
[16:59:29] <_hugo> i know a necromancer
[16:59:40] * _hugo casts shadowbolt
[16:59:43] * DeadYak runs from _hugo's skeleton army
[17:00:10] <MrSun> what .. is .. a .. "slab" ?
[17:00:16] <DeadYak> MrSun: ask Sun
[17:00:22] <_hugo> MrSun: it is a thing!
[17:00:32] <_hugo> from the future
[17:00:35] <esperantolo> Ramshankar
[17:00:46] <DeadYak> esperantolo: yeah, he's in here once in a while like I said
[17:00:57] <esperantolo> oh ok cool just making sure it's teh same dude :D
[17:01:10] <DeadYak> it is
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[17:02:29] <mmu_man> it's a slap
[17:02:32] <mmu_man> but with a typo :)
[17:02:46] <_hugo> its a monkey in a turkey costume
[17:03:03] <_hugo> poor monkey
[17:03:19] *** slaine_ has quit IRC
[17:03:29] * DeadYak steals the monkey
[17:03:36] <_hugo> nooooo---
[17:03:41] <SiCuTDeUx> lol
[17:03:45] * _hugo smacks the monkey
[17:03:55] * DeadYak backs away and gets an umbrella
[17:04:04] * _hugo does the monkey
[17:04:10] <_hugo> .. dance
[17:04:24] <mmu_man> OH MY
[17:04:29] * SiCuTDeUx is sitting watching the _hugo and DeadYak show!...
[17:04:32] <mmu_man> YOU ARE... STEEEVE BALMER ???
[17:04:39] <DeadYak> hahaha
[17:04:43] * DeadYak throws a chair at mmu_man
[17:04:45] * SiCuTDeUx make's some popcorn...
[17:04:46] * [Beta] ducks
[17:04:52] <ddew|bofh> megad
[17:04:54] <_hugo> mmu_man: i have hair in my face and scalp!
[17:06:00] * ddew|bofh hugs bone
[17:06:18] <ddew|bofh> finally have a machine that works with it :D
[17:06:37] <_hugo> bone always worked for me
[17:06:46] <_hugo> what issues were there?
[17:07:01] <ddew|bofh> my nic wasn't supported
[17:07:11] <_hugo> oh, sad
[17:07:22] <ddew|bofh> but now it does, and what a difference
[17:07:46] <ddew|bofh> like a 300% increase in transfer speeds over my lan
[17:07:54] <esperantolo> Dane_: Long time no see brother :D
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[17:11:00] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: not surprising :P
[17:12:40] <ddew|bofh> DeadYak: but still, a nice surprise...to _me_ :P
[17:12:53] <DeadYak> hehe
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[17:18:05] <MYOB> _hugo: smacking monkeys means.... something VERY specific here :o
[17:18:48] <ddew|bofh> although the technique can vary ;)
[17:18:55] <_hugo> MYOB: oh really :>
[17:20:16] <DeadYak> MYOB: I thought that was 'spanking'
[17:20:34] <_hugo> i guess i got it wrong then :-P
[17:20:58] * _hugo puts some music on and goes back to le code
[17:21:16] <DeadYak> _hugo: I still say you should call it Slab-o-Matic :P
[17:21:26] <_hugo> slab-o-rama!
[17:21:31] <DeadYak> or that
[17:21:49] <_hugo> DeadYak: i actually used that in some mailing list
[17:21:58] <_hugo> i think it was the kernel one
[17:22:02] <DeadYak> oh
[17:23:32] <ddew|bofh> pardon my ignorance, but wth is a slab?
[17:23:38] <ddew|bofh> well, in this context anyways
[17:23:47] <_hugo> in this context it is a banana
[17:23:55] <ddew|bofh> *rimshot*
[17:24:04] <ddew|bofh> seriously though
[17:24:17] <_hugo> in an allocator context it is a block of data, buffer
[17:24:24] <ddew|bofh> ah
[17:24:29] <ddew|bofh> part of the vm?
[17:24:34] <_hugo> i could be lying though
[17:24:37] <_hugo> can't trust me
[17:24:49] <ddew|bofh> i'll remember that ;)
[17:25:04] <_hugo> ddew|bofh: magic 8 ball says 'all points to yes'
[17:25:15] <ddew|bofh> i'll think of it as sort of a buffer
[17:25:18] <ddew|bofh> thanks
[17:25:46] <_hugo> basically it is a buffer which is divided in a bunch of smaller buffers for specific allocation
[17:25:57] <_hugo> i.e. the buffer is divided into objects and those are used instead
[17:26:12] <_hugo> allocation is simple because you keep around a list of available objects
[17:26:25] <_hugo> which is merged in the slab itself
[17:26:48] <ddew|bofh> useful
[17:26:52] <MYOB> DeadYak: can be either surely?
[17:27:09] <DeadYak> MYOB: I dunno, when used in *ahem* that way I've only ever heard spank
[17:27:17] <_hugo> ddew|bofh: it minimizes internal fragmentation and allows other stuff as well
[17:27:50] <ddew|bofh> that was my initial thought when you mentioned objects and allocation :)
[17:28:11] <_hugo> there you go
[17:28:18] <ddew|bofh> thanks
[17:28:22] <_hugo> no problem
[17:28:29] <ddew|bofh> os coding is like voodoo :P
[17:28:56] <ddew|bofh> to the uninitiated that is
[17:29:09] <_hugo> ddew|bofh: if by voodoo you mean fun, yes, i agree
[17:29:33] <MYOB> DeadYak:  we'll wait to see if the expert knows
[17:29:39] <MYOB> DaaT around? :P
[17:29:46] <ddew|bofh> hehe, i mean that "any sufficiently advanced technology is undistinguishable from magic"
[17:30:07] <_hugo> ddew|bofh: i like pretty pictures
[17:30:17] <Ingenu> I miss the BeOS speed
[17:30:29] <Ingenu> and stability (due to having most drivers tested internaly)
[17:30:48] <_hugo> haiku is stable
[17:30:51] * _hugo dies
[17:31:04] <ddew|bofh> stable as long as you don't do anything with it :P
[17:31:14] <_hugo> lies!
[17:31:20] <_hugo> i can even download stuff, and stuff
[17:31:24] <ddew|bofh> had an uptime of over 6 hours when i forgot to turn off my box yesterday
[17:32:47] <ddew|bofh> wish i could get that font rendering smoothness on beos
[17:33:04] <_hugo> isnt it smooth already?
[17:33:21] <_hugo> ah, beos, not haiku
[17:33:58] <MYOB> its the smoothest around... for 1998 era renderers ;)
[17:34:07] <ddew|bofh> but i'd rather have working than purty, so for now i'm sticking with beos :)
[17:34:41] <ddew|bofh> it's amazing to me that a 10 year old os feels like a step up from most other oses i use
[17:35:39] <ddew|bofh> i guess i'm a perfect candidate for alt oses since i don't game or anything
[17:36:31] <Ingenu> finished Haiku, IDE app, Office app, Internet apps
[17:36:42] <Ingenu> that would be a good start
[17:37:06] <_hugo> office app?
[17:37:07] <mmu_man> right
[17:37:14] <mmu_man> let's do the 2nd one
[17:37:19] * mmu_man goes back to XEmacs
[17:37:20] <ddew|bofh> i'd settle for the base os, an ide and some basic multimedia capabilities
[17:37:42] <Ingenu> ah yes forgot multimedia apps
[17:37:52] <Ingenu> VLC is fine for videos, just need a Winamp like (free)
[17:38:45] <ddew|bofh> i'd like to have similar media functionalities in the shell like zeta had/had
[17:39:14] * DeadYak pets Soundplay
[17:39:41] <ddew|bofh> i'm sticking with itunes for the time being ;)
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[17:41:23] <CIA-18> hugosantos * r20841 /haiku/trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): removed some of the slab's initial heavy debugging. we now merge the links into the slab itself resulting in zero overhead per buffer with MergedLink strategy.
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[17:44:54] <_hugo> what's up with cheney?
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[17:48:50] <MYOB> _hugo: he didn't shoot someone again did he? :P
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[17:55:24] <ddew|bofh> ahh, the frustration
[17:55:45] <ddew|bofh> it's easier to find drivers for this soundchip for os2 than it is to find them for beos
[17:56:35] <DeadYak> what sound chip is that?
[17:56:40] <ddew|bofh> ess1869
[17:56:51] <ddew|bofh> the download links on bebits don't work
[17:56:55] <DeadYak> oh.
[17:57:00] <DeadYak> was going to say there used to be one...
[17:58:29] <DeadYak> ddew|bofh: try http://www.bebits.com/bob/19096/maestrodriver.pkg.zip
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[18:00:27] <ddew|bofh> no dice, thanks anyways
[18:00:35] <DeadYak> doesn't download?
[18:00:38] <DeadYak> or doesn't work?
[18:00:42] <ddew|bofh> doesn't work
[18:00:46] <DeadYak> oh :/
[18:01:18] <ddew|bofh> sound isn't that important really on this box. just figured it'd be nice to have :)
[18:02:22] <Ingenu> oh yeah XFi & GF8 drivers ^^
[18:02:34] <Ingenu> xubuntu 7.04 still doesn't work on my comp
[18:03:04] <ddew|bofh> ubuntu atleast boots up now on mine :)
[18:03:21] <ddew|bofh> still some issues with xorg but i don't use it as a desktop anyways
[18:03:24] <Ingenu> I shall try ubuntu, but I like lite desktops
[18:04:35] <ddew|bofh> i've stopped recommending systems to people, they can just use wtf they want :)
[18:05:48] <MYOB> the Maestro isn't a 1869, its a 1988 IIRC
[18:06:19] <MYOB> theres seperate 1869 drivers somwhere
[18:06:33] <ddew|bofh> should be anyways, the dl links wouldnt work
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[18:11:12] <MYOB> reading Something Awful in work = colleagues staring at you...
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[18:16:29] <AndyBe> mmu_man: hello
[18:16:48] <mmu_man> plop
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[18:16:59] <AndyBe> can not get my machine running with BeOS
[18:17:49] <Ingenu> neither
[18:17:54] <Ingenu> couldn't with my previous either
[18:17:59] <Ingenu> gave up on BeOS
[18:18:07] <Ingenu> Haiku is our only hope
[18:18:45] <AndyBe> I tested the 756/512 MB Hack and I got always the same Problem. - I can not see something in the Hardwaremanager and Terminal does't start. No putty? (I know what Putty is).
[18:19:31] <AndyBe> And can only mount BeOS Devices no, Linux where the source is lying.
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[18:22:03] <AndyBe> Is there an chance to change the build sitze of the Image there isn't enough space to put something in it.
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[18:23:12] <AndyBe> ups size of the image .......imageSize. I changed it by hand but then Haiku does'nt boot into it.
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[18:24:12] <mmu_man> http://www.twain.org/ hmm I think I saw that people icon before
[18:24:22] <mmu_man> SUE!
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[18:25:40] <Anxiety> lol
[18:25:43] <DeadYak> Be's People icon has to be the single most plagiarized icon in existence
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[18:27:27] <atla> hi
[18:27:52] <atla> anyone has a tip how to send svn submits to mailing list?
[18:28:45] <mmu_man> the server can have scripts run on commits
[18:28:58] <mmu_man> DeadYak likely
[18:30:10] <atla> ah
[18:30:25] <atla> thx francois
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[18:46:09] <ddew|bofh> ahh, "Addicted to chaos" is the greatest ballad in the history of time :P
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[18:53:14] <mmu_man>  /boot/apps/Video/vlc-0.8.6/vlc mms://live.france24.com/france24_en.wsx
[18:53:18] <mmu_man> aw it works :)
[18:54:45] <mmu_man> idn't try in haiku though :)
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[18:56:41] <Lelldorin1> hello all
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[19:18:25] <gotaku> Hello
[19:23:22] <kokito> hi gotaku
[19:24:19] <gotaku> How's it going?
[19:24:43] <kokito> ok. I am one year older today :P
[19:26:32] <Lelldorin1> happy birthday kokito
[19:26:45] <kokito> thanx Lelldorin1 :)
[19:27:25] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[19:30:19] <Ingenu> happy birthday
[19:31:05] <kokito> thank you Ingenu :)
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[19:43:21] <stargater> hi
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[20:30:54] <gotaku> Where is the system call handler located in the source tree?
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[20:31:27] <geist> which part?
[20:31:36] <geist> I'm in the process of rewriting it, so it's pretty fresh on muy mind
[20:32:05] * mmu_man merging back an unintentionally forked XEmacs tree
[20:32:13] <mmu_man> should get toolbar support again :)
[20:34:02] <_hugo> kill tha emacs
[20:34:19] <mmu_man> XEmacs powah
[20:35:01] * _hugo throws :q! at silly xeh macs
[20:35:02] <gotaku> geist: What do you mean 'which part'?
[20:37:41] <stargater> re
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[20:39:04] <Dane_> procton
[20:41:01] <stargater> anyone a idear for run ipw2100 in haiku, the driver is compile and in haiku on real hardware. but when i boot cames the holly KDL, i have listen i need a "Firmware" file/info/? .
[20:43:50] <CIA-18> marcusoverhagen * r20842 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/ps2/ps2_common.c: comment changed
[20:45:28] <DeadYak> geist: just curious, what're you doing to it?
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[21:00:19] <geist> gotaku: the user half or the kernel half? the low level kernel bits or the upper layer?
[21:00:44] <geist> DeadYak: gonna write the actual dispatch of the syscalls in kernel land in asm, in the low level dispatcher
[21:01:00] <geist> so that at worst there is a single function (the low level syscall handler) before the actual real one
[21:01:06] *** atla has left #haiku
[21:01:11] <geist> as opposed to bouncing through 2 or 3 routines like it currently does
[21:01:26] <geist> then second thing I'm gonna do is use syscall/sysenter on the cpus that support it
[21:01:32] <gotaku> Why is syscall_dispatcher.h generated?
[21:01:48] <geist> i already have the commpage stuff to support that, it can dynamically select that at runtime now easily
[21:02:19] <geist> gotaku: why not? it's nice, you can just add another entry in a header and it'll generate the kernel and user half of the call automatically. kudos to whomever wrote that
[21:02:40] <geist> in newos i had that all hard coded, and I had to edit 3 or 4 files every time i added one
[21:03:38] *** Begasus_bbl is now known as Begasus
[21:03:39] <_Lucretia_> geist: do you use the trampoline method that other OSes use?
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[21:07:10] <DeadYak> geist: ah.
[21:07:16] <DeadYak> geist: aiming to speed up the syscall handler then?
[21:07:49] <dr_evil> DeadYak no, he want's to make it slower
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[21:08:04] <mmu_man> :)
[21:08:10] <Vernaldo> hello
[21:08:16] <geist> absolutely
[21:08:44] <gotaku> system calls work better the slower they are... I thought everyone knew that.
[21:08:47] <Vernaldo> I've been looking on goggle, and can't find out how to open a haiku .image file from Q (Qemu in OSX)
[21:08:52] <geist> _Lucretia_: what do you precisely mean by trampoline method? you mean the blob of user code the kernel places in a shared area?
[21:08:55] <geist> if so, then yes
[21:09:02] <Vernaldo> Does anybody know any website that points me to this?
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[21:09:24] <mmu_man> Vernaldo on relatively sane OSes one can just run "qemu /path/to/image"
[21:09:59] <_Lucretia_> geist: tbh, not too sure ;D
[21:10:18] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: I've tried dragging the image file to the Q screen, it won't let me. I tried starting a new Guest PC, editing an existing Guest PC, replacing my Guest PC file,
[21:10:46] <_Lucretia_> geist: I think the idea is to syscall, then the depending on the kernel, jump to the *right* version for that cpu, whether that's the sysenter stuff, interrupt call, etc.
[21:12:06] <Vernaldo> Q is a GUI qemu for OSX, this says. I cannot find the equivalent terminal qemu. It looks like Q doesn't install a qemu
[21:12:48] <Vernaldo> files have a .qvm extension
[21:13:20] <Vernaldo> I try "qemu+haiku+.image" in goggle
[21:13:44] <mmu_man> tried renaming the .image to .qvm ?
[21:14:29] <Vernaldo> no
[21:14:33] <Vernaldo> brb
[21:14:43] <Vernaldo> (could it be that simple?) brb
[21:15:06] <geist> _Lucretia_: yup, that's what I'm gonna do
[21:15:19] <geist> now i just need to write the kernel half of the syscall mechanism, which is quite a bit of asm
[21:15:40] <Vernaldo> renaming haiku.image to haiku.qvm did not work
[21:15:41] <mmu_man> my small experience with OSX is it always tries to make simple what is already simpler than the result...
[21:15:46] <_Lucretia_> geist: nice, don't relish that, unless it's m68k
[21:15:56] <Vernaldo> *sigh*
[21:16:13] <Vernaldo> someone else must have tried haiku on osx before, right?
[21:16:23] <mmu_man> maybe that .qvm is a plain text file with the path of the image...
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[21:17:49] <mmu_man> http://kju-app.org/proj/wiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestions?format=txt seems not
[21:18:08] <mmu_man> try using the .image as a .raw
[21:18:26] <mmu_man> or .img maybe
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[21:18:42] <Vernaldo> It supposedly allows me to download many OS images from a special website. But the images are mostly linux distros, BSDs, or ReactOS. And secondly, well, the website seems to be down (oszoo.org)
[21:19:16] <mmu_man> :p
[21:19:33] <[Beta]> well that's nice. Client says video uploaded, site says: nothing. :/
[21:20:06] <gotaku> What site?
[21:20:18] <[Beta]> video.googly.com
[21:20:54] <[Beta]> unrelated, does Stephen B from beosnews.com come in here?
[21:21:02] <gotaku> Uploaded Google videos have to be approved before they appear I think.
[21:21:08] <Vernaldo> brbr, I try keep renaming
[21:21:37] <[Beta]> gotaku, site has a note, "We conduct a limited pre-screening of videos for compliance with our policies."
[21:21:52] <[Beta]> I presume the size alerts them to a film-type video :)
[21:22:21] <[Beta]> would have thought "Needs Action (0)" tab would at least have it on.
[21:22:43] <mmu_man> hmm the Zeta gui changes don't look too well in my BMenuBar based toolbar...
[21:22:46] <mmu_man> oh well
[21:24:22] <gotaku> Vernaldo: Isn't there a vmplayer for Mac?
[21:24:22] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: ok, it looks like the .qvm files are actually directories, which have one .qcow and one .plist file inside
[21:24:23] <Vernaldo> brb
[21:24:30] <Vernaldo> umm
[21:24:33] <Vernaldo> hmm
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[21:24:58] <Vernaldo> thank you {sheepishly}
[21:25:11] <mmu_man> pff, as I said, the art of making simple things complicated
[21:25:12] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_beos_toolbar_scrollbar.001.png :)
[21:25:13] <_Lucretia_> after seeing the google vid and the info on the dependency issue...a question came to mind
[21:26:07] <gotaku> dependency issue?
[21:26:22] <_Lucretia_> say you have an application that wants to load a particular image type using the media kit (or whatever kit it uses), as there's no dependency, I take it the operation will fail and the image won't load. How does the user know how to fix this?
[21:26:27] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: I like the titlebar
[21:26:48] <_Lucretia_> gotaku: it was mentioned that everything goes through the kits, therefore no need to depend on different gfx libs
[21:26:51] <_Lucretia_> etc.,
[21:27:05] <Vernaldo> bbl
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[21:30:13] <mmu_man> Vernaldo tssk
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[21:31:27] <nutela> mmu_man : Zeta's GUI never looked good
[21:31:44] <mmu_man> nutela well it's just not finished, henced not consistent
[21:31:46] <mmu_man> in R5 it looks like
[21:31:47] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_beos_native_toolbars.png
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[21:32:00] <mmu_man> in Haiku it will look quite alike
[21:32:20] <dr_evil> nice work, but uhh, it's emacs ;/
[21:32:33] * [Beta] agrees, heh.
[21:32:50] <mmu_man> hmm actually I haev a better one to show :)
[21:32:54] <mmu_man> with the replacement pics I made
[21:32:56] <nutela> I love those simple X11 icons, they are so clear
[21:33:01] <mmu_man> with rendersvg+image magick (convert)
[21:33:37] * nutela if only BeOS R5 had > 256 colors for the buttons gradient in the tabs...
[21:34:58] <nutela> it's not easy to look artistic but also serious
[21:35:07] <nutela> R5 just nails it IMHO
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[21:37:06] <mmu_man> I managed to get transparency working correctly
[21:37:11] <mmu_man> so the toolbar looks much nicer
[21:37:21] <dr_evil> brb
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[21:38:51] <pikapika> hello
[21:39:31] <SiCuTDeUx> pikapika: hola
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[21:40:11] <stargater> wb Dr_Evil
[21:41:00] <pikapika> hi SiCuTDeUx
[21:41:15] <SiCuTDeUx> pikapika: speak spanish?
[21:41:29] <gotaku> Over 80 people in here now.
[21:41:33] <mmu_man> it actually looks quite pretty :)))
[21:41:54] <pikapika> SiCuTDeUx: not at all
[21:42:15] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_zeta_pretty_toolbar_speedbar_scrollbar.png
[21:42:19] <SiCuTDeUx> oh, pikapika is an spanish nick
[21:42:53] <pikapika> SiCuTDeUx: depends on the interpretation
[21:43:38] <SiCuTDeUx> pikapika is a sustance that iches...XD sometimes is used as a joke powder...
[21:43:43] <SiCuTDeUx> :D
[21:43:57] <pikapika> oh :)
[21:44:06] <mmu_man> (but the buttons don't work yet)
[21:44:08] <pikapika> well i first thought of pikachu
[21:49:34] <Dane_> mmu_man I've been playing with Feisty Fawn a little...very nice.  ZETA seems like it has a better font engine though.  Things are so crisp and easy to read under ZETA, isn't it?
[21:49:43] <Dane_>  mmu_man I can see a feature in Ubuntu that would be great under Haiku someday.  If you click on the little icon in the upper left corner of any window, you can select "move to workspace" and move the window over really easily.  Nice touch.
[21:50:17] * DeadYak pets FontFusion
[21:50:24] <mmu_man> well, not as fast as holding the title tab and hitting ALT-Fn
[21:50:28] <mmu_man> but you have to know it
[21:50:33] <Dane_> Right, agreed
[21:50:34] <nutela> wow mmu_man looks really nice, what's the green at the upper sides?
[21:50:46] <Dr_Evil> _hugo can you disable the cache debug output in the svn version and only use it locally please?
[21:50:58] <mmu_man> nutela the topmost view color, I use it to pick up misplacement of stuff
[21:51:10] <mmu_man> like the toolbar is 1pix off
[21:51:18] <CIA-18> jackburton * r20843 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/terminal/ (5 files): Removed unused methods and variables, small style cleanups
[21:51:46] <nutela> yes
[21:52:19] <nutela> could be whatever you say mmu_man :-)
[21:52:54] <mmu_man>  XEView::XEView(Lisp_Object xeframe, BRect frame, const char *name)
[21:52:55] <mmu_man>  	:BView(frame, name, B_FOLLOW_ALL_SIDES, B_WILL_DRAW|B_FRAME_EVENTS)
[21:52:56] <mmu_man>  {
[21:52:56] <mmu_man>  	fIsClosing = false;
[21:52:57] <mmu_man>  	fUpdateRegion.MakeEmpty();
[21:52:58] <mmu_man>  	fXEFrame = xeframe;
[21:52:58] <mmu_man>  	pending_resize_events = 0;
[21:52:59] <mmu_man>  	pending_mouse_move_events = 0;
[21:53:00] <nutela> Ohmforce could make some of their plugins available for Haiku
[21:53:01] <mmu_man>  	SetViewColor(0,255,0);
[21:53:04] <mmu_man>         ^^
[21:53:15] <nutela> green yes ;-)
[21:53:31] <Dr_Evil> _hugo I'm referring to the periodic
[21:53:36] <Dr_Evil>  Cache[0x909fb800, data node cache] returning 0x807a87fc to 0x803a8fc0, 1 used (0 empty slabs).
[21:53:37] <Dr_Evil>  Cache[0x90a06e00, net buffer cache] allocate 0x8035bf5c from 0x8035bfe0, 10 remaining.
[21:54:16] <nutela> Maybe someone who speaks french could pursade them ;-)
[21:54:23] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: you don't like the Zeta's GUI?
[21:54:47] <mmu_man> I tend to prefer straight lines and simple stuff
[21:54:54] <mmu_man> like R5 or Win9x
[21:54:57] <[Beta]> I hate gradients
[21:55:01] <nutela> still the new zeta icons for xemacs are 'harder to read' then the black and white stuff
[21:55:08] <nutela> or grayscale it is...
[21:55:27] <nutela> it looks like a popsicle
[21:55:28] <mmu_man> but like in 1.5 it has gradients on the toolbars also, and it's more consistent
[21:55:38] <nutela> yes that is better
[21:55:49] <nutela> if it would crash less..
[21:55:50] * Dane_ thnks that among BeOS users, he is the only one who likes gradients that give things a raised appearance.
[21:55:51] <Vernaldo> nutela: the words might be harder to read, but the icons can be very recognizable
[21:55:56] <nutela> and be more like beos
[21:56:17] <nutela> Vernaldo : I mean that the icons are very recognizable
[21:56:39] <Vernaldo> nutela: looking like a popsicle is something you can say about the whole BeOS/Haiku. That's the way it's been for long
[21:56:47] <Dr_Evil> _hugo ping time for the gateway is 80 ms with this output over serial debug
[21:56:51] <[Beta]> Dane_, I believe it decreases readability in tabs.
[21:57:04] <nutela> sweet but empty stomach Vernaldo?
[21:57:11] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku
[21:58:09] <Dane_> Never noticed a problem with it, but heck, it's a personal preference thing.  :-)
[21:58:10] <nutela> I'm going to try to get my wireless keyb and mouse working in R5, is there a IRC client in plain R5?
[21:58:18] <mmu_man> Vision
[21:58:22] <mmu_man> on bebits
[21:58:25] <nutela> thanks
[21:58:26] <nutela> oh
[21:58:40] <Vernaldo> nutela: as you might remember, even though the *mechanics* of BeOS GUI was lauded, the aesthetic side was often criticized.
[21:58:47] <nutela> well see you later, have to reboot
[21:59:07] *** nutela has quit IRC
[21:59:12] * JonathanThompson lobs an insanity plea at Dane_
[21:59:25] <Dane_> JonathanThompson What's up?  :-)
[21:59:41] <JonathanThompson> Are you the Dane_ I'm working with right now, or another Dane_?
[21:59:53] <Dane_> Last time I checked, I'm the same one  :-D
[21:59:56] <mmu_man> Vernaldo the tool text is drawn on the bitmap, the font is probably not the best I could find
[21:59:57] <DeadYak> *** Dane_ is i=DaneScot at 63 dot 135.141.107 (DaneScott)
[22:00:01] <DeadYak> I'd assume the same one :P
[22:00:09] <JonathanThompson> Had to check :P
[22:00:11] <Dane_> np
[22:00:29] <JonathanThompson> Remember that I'm in the Pacific Time Zone:  I forget which TZ you're in.
[22:00:30] <Dane_> JonathanThompson How's it going?
[22:00:31] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: it figures. Otherwise, I think it's going a nice job
[22:00:32] <JonathanThompson> I'm at lunch right now.
[22:00:44] <Dane_> JonathanThompson I'm Central time, two hours later
[22:00:47] <JonathanThompson> I believe I have what I need to get things done correctly.
[22:00:53] <Dane_> Good!@
[22:00:56] <DeadYak> Dane_: oh? I thought you were east coast
[22:01:03] <JonathanThompson> Well, I won't be home from work before about 6:30 p.m. PST.
[22:01:04] <Dane_> Midwest
[22:01:10] <Dane_> Call if you need me
[22:01:19] <JonathanThompson> And I also need to pick up a switch, since it seems my router died.
[22:01:20] <JonathanThompson> Ok.
[22:01:25] <DeadYak> Dane_: mind me asking what state? :)
[22:01:29] <JonathanThompson> I have unlimited long distance, so it's not an issue :P
[22:01:32] <Dane_> DeadYak Confusion
[22:01:37] * JonathanThompson suggests the state of confusion
[22:01:39] <JonathanThompson> ACK!
[22:01:42] <Dane_> beat you
[22:01:42] <JonathanThompson> He beat me to it!
[22:01:47] <DeadYak> Dane_: I meant geographical :P
[22:01:58] <Dane_> Bela Ruse
[22:02:01] * JonathanThompson suggests Confusion and Indiana are the same
[22:02:07] <Dane_> sorry, can't help it.  out of control
[22:02:10] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: personally, I believe that the isometric rule for icons in BeOS should be excepted with toolbars. Toolbar buttons should be straight on perspective. But, I guess that's a bigger subject to discuss
[22:02:13] <Dane_> DeadYak Wisconsin
[22:02:16] * JonathanThompson puts Dane_ in control of insanity
[22:02:17] <DeadYak> Dane_: oh :)
[22:02:24] <JonathanThompson> He's a CheeseHead!
[22:02:27] <Dane_> What do you mean, "oh?!"  :-D
[22:02:48] <DeadYak> Dane_: for some reason I had it in my head that you were in the Carolinas
[22:02:49] <DeadYak> I dunno
[22:02:55] <JonathanThompson> That explaims a lot :P
[22:03:00] <Dane_> yeesh
[22:03:02] <JonathanThompson> (that's what)
[22:03:25] <Begasus> g'night peeps
[22:03:35] <Dane_> DeadYak No, but I do like South Carolina...great beaches at Hilton Head Island
[22:03:39] <JonathanThompson> Last night I saw an interesting program was going to be shown on the Cats channel.
[22:03:51] <JonathanThompson> However, I was too broke to watch it:  It was Pay Purr View!
[22:03:57] <Dane_> waagh
[22:03:58] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: the green border around the toolbar, why does that happen?
[22:04:09] <mmu_man> because it's misplaced
[22:04:18] <mmu_man> it's just here to catch that
[22:04:25] *** Begasus has quit IRC
[22:04:33] <mmu_man> dev hack
[22:04:33] <JonathanThompson> I also knew a nervous historian that everyone agreed was past tense, especially when he repeated himself :)
[22:04:45] *** Dane__ has joined #Haiku
[22:04:51] <DaaT> Dane_: got my pvt today?
[22:04:52] <JonathanThompson> I also knew a nervous historian that everyone agreed was past tense, especially when he repeated himself :)
[22:05:03] <Dane_> DaaT Yes, thanks!
[22:05:06] <DaaT> worked?
[22:05:12] <Dane_> No response yet
[22:05:19] <DaaT> ah
[22:05:20] <DaaT> but no bounce?
[22:05:29] <Dane_> No bounce, no, but neither did my original msg
[22:05:31] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: the scroll bars are native. Did you need to tweak for that, or does it work as it comes?
[22:05:42] <DaaT> ah well, let's hope it works this time :)
[22:05:48] <Dane_> Yes, amen to that
[22:05:55] <mmu_man> I just made it so
[22:06:04] <mmu_man> but they don't react yet
[22:06:10] <mmu_man> the move if you scroll but you can't move them yet
[22:06:11] <Vernaldo> oh
[22:06:23] <DeadYak> Dane_: my parents actually live in SC
[22:06:27] <DeadYak> Dane_: Greenville to be exact
[22:06:31] <Dane_> Pretty area
[22:06:34] <gotaku> Can I update just the files that have changed in an image? It takes too long to build one if you are just playing with UserBuildConfig.
[22:07:06] <DeadYak> Dane_: yeah it is
[22:07:11] <Dane_> DaaT Hit me with a priv message please
[22:07:22] <DaaT> kinky
[22:07:34] <Dane_> Need to gest something, weirdo
[22:07:38] <Dane_> test
[22:08:02] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: will the menu bar make a comeback? :-D
[22:08:25] <Dane_> DaaT I can see your priv msg but you can't see mine.  Can't understand what might have happened.
[22:08:38] <DaaT> Dane_: have you logged in? with nickserv
[22:08:49] <DeadYak> that's because you're not identified/registered
[22:08:51] <Dane_> DaaTYes, but maybe it's not valid anymore?
[22:08:56] <DeadYak> it's not
[22:09:05] <DaaT> what DeadYak said
[22:09:06] <DaaT> :)
[22:09:09] <Dane_> what's the syntax tog et things back in shape?
[22:09:15] <Dane_> to get
[22:09:18] <DeadYak> what nick are you registered under?
[22:09:23] <Dane_> TuneTracker
[22:09:26] <DeadYak> TTRanger?
[22:09:27] <DeadYak> oh.
[22:09:41] <DeadYak>  /nick TuneTracker and then /ns identify yourpassword then
[22:09:41] <Dane_> My login says "/msg nickserv identify TuneTracker"
[22:09:52] <stargater> Dane_,  you mast register your nick and when you go in irc.freenode.org then mast /msg nickserv identify <your passwd>
[22:09:54] <DaaT> that's why
[22:10:02] <DaaT> it doesn't know you're tunetracker :)
[22:10:27] <Dane_> test
[22:10:33] <DeadYak> you're still here :P
[22:10:37] <mmu_man> Vernaldo I didn't write the code yet
[22:10:42] * JonathanThompson is not here: this is a bot
[22:11:07] <Dane_> How do do the register part?
[22:11:11] <JonathanThompson> It's amazing what you can do readily if you have the source code to a chat program :P
[22:11:24] <DeadYak> you're already registered
[22:11:33] <Dane_> It's amazing how STUPID IRC syntax is.  Geez.
[22:11:36] <gotaku> How do I start Terminal with a script to run when it opens?
[22:11:42] <Dane_> What a mess it is.
[22:11:43] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: I like it better than XEmacs on Xubuntu
[22:11:49] <DeadYak> you're registered under TTRanger
[22:11:58] <Dane_> DeadYak Can I change that?
[22:11:59] <mmu_man> :)
[22:12:02] <MYOB> Dane_ its been around longer than, erm, Mr X has anyway :P
[22:12:18] <mmu_man> Vernaldo actually I liked XEmacs in NT better than under X11 gui wise
[22:12:22] <JonathanThompson> Mr. X is a young pup barking up the wrong tree :)
[22:12:23] <Dane_> MYOB I know, I just don't like cryptic syntax stuff.  Can never remember all that.
[22:12:26] <DeadYak> Dane_: /nick TTRanger ; /ns identify password
[22:12:47] <Dane_> What if I want to change it from TTRanger to Dane_  ?
[22:12:54] <MYOB> you need to register Dane_
[22:13:03] <Dane_> Right, I'm asking how to do that
[22:13:18] *** stargater is now known as TTRanger
[22:13:22] <Vernaldo> it's been a long time since I used XEmacs on NT. But again, so far I like better than on Gnome or KDE.
[22:13:22] <Dane_> hehe
[22:13:34] <Ingenu> go to freenode website
[22:13:39] <TTRanger> oh oh who is my nick
[22:13:42] <Ingenu> or ask NickServ
[22:13:47] *** Ingenu is now known as stargater
[22:13:48] <Vernaldo> mmu_man: does XEmacs require a lot of workarounds to make it work under Haiku?
[22:13:51] <stargater> mouahaha !
[22:13:52] <Vernaldo> I mean Zeta
[22:14:09] *** stargater is now known as Ingenu
[22:14:14] <Dane_> stargater evil man  :-)
[22:14:15] <TTRanger> hehe
[22:14:17] <mmu_man> Vernaldo not that much
[22:14:22] <JonathanThompson> Very evil :P
[22:14:25] <Vernaldo> bbl
[22:14:28] *** TTRanger is now known as stargater2
[22:14:31] *** stargater2 is now known as stargater
[22:14:38] <Dane_> Ingenu How do I "ask NickServ?"
[22:14:38] <JonathanThompson> lol
[22:14:39] <mmu_man> for some stuff it needs npipefs (my rewritten pipefs that fixed a bug)
[22:14:46] <MYOB>  /msg NickServ Help
[22:14:49] <mmu_man> needs some libs but that should be it
[22:14:49] <MYOB> single enough...
[22:15:01] <stargater> Dane_,  make /nick <your nickname>
[22:15:09] <mmu_man>  /ns info nickname
[22:15:44] *** Dane_ is now known as _Dane
[22:16:09] <_Dane> what a convoluted mess
[22:16:12] <_Dane> bleh
[22:16:24] *** Advant has joined #haiku
[22:16:33] <_Dane> Let's have all kinds of silly "magic spells" in order to do simple things
[22:16:40] <_Dane> Sorry, this always frustrates me
[22:16:43] <Advant> Anyone know where I can get documents on OpenBFS?
[22:17:16] <DeadYak> what kind of documents?
[22:17:40] *** pikapika1 has joined #haiku
[22:18:12] <Advant> DeadYak:  I want to write a tool that can read files from a openbfs parition on a vmware hard disk
[22:18:20] <MYOB> _Dane got a better suggestion of how you can have it all work
[22:18:25] <MYOB> without using a web interface
[22:18:30] *** pikapika has quit IRC
[22:18:37] <_Dane> MYOB yessir?
[22:18:38] *** pikapika1 is now known as pikapika
[22:18:53] <MYOB> cause a number of the IRC Services projects would love to know
[22:19:11] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku
[22:19:14] *** robotintestines has quit IRC
[22:19:51] <_Dane> MYOB Going way back to the 80s, there have been text-based GUIs.  The same sort of thing could be devised for IRC.
[22:19:58] <kokito> TTRange = Dane?
[22:20:03] <_Dane> kokito Yes, hi!
[22:20:06] <MYOB> has to be compatible with IRC clients back to 1989 specs
[22:20:18] <DeadYak> that sounds like something client-side rather than server-side
[22:20:35] <_Dane> Terminals can handle text menuing
[22:20:38] <DeadYak> and that's made difficult by the fact that different irc networks have their own sets of services with different commands
[22:20:41] <kokito> ah! that (sort of) makes sense. Hi _Dane!
[22:21:06] <DeadYak> it's not a matter of terminals
[22:21:09] <Advant> DeadYak:  so any idea on docs for openbgs?
[22:21:10] <Advant> bfs
[22:21:15] <DeadYak> it's a matter of the protocol having no way whatsoever to tell the client to do things like that
[22:21:21] <MYOB> IRC is a protocol not a terminal
[22:21:27] <MYOB> despite what it may seem
[22:21:41] <MYOB> unlike a mail server you can't IRC with just a telnet client
[22:21:51] <DeadYak> MYOB: want to bet? :P
[22:21:53] <Advant> yes you can
[22:22:06] <MYOB> DeadYak without knowing how to format everything...
[22:22:06] <_Dane> I reserve the right to *hate* all the syntax stuff.  IRC has gone nowhere in all this time.  Maybe it's time for IRC to evolve a little.
[22:22:07] <DeadYak> IRC's proto is plain text, you can telnet IRC just fine
[22:22:21] <DeadYak> _Dane: but that'd break compat with all the IRC clients.
[22:22:22] <Advant> just make sure you pong the ping
[22:22:27] <_Dane> DeadYak Yep
[22:22:33] <MYOB> I defy you to connect, identify and actually chat for more than 5 minutes without going insane
[22:22:37] <DeadYak> MYOB: sure but you can't telnet to a mail server without knowing how to format things either.
[22:22:45] <MYOB> I have however -had- to read my mail off the server by telnet before
[22:23:05] <[Beta]> someone wrote a spec for an XMPP (Jabber) based chat system, to replace IRC :P
[22:23:12] <CIA-18> jackburton * r20844 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/opengl/GLView.cpp:
[22:23:12] <CIA-18> Implemented locking for BGLView direct mode. Tested with GLTeapot and
[22:23:12] <CIA-18> GLDirectTest. Seems to work fine
[22:23:14] <[Beta]> now it just needs clients written.
[22:23:17] <kokito> Advant, this may help: http://www.nobius.org/~dbg/practical-file-system-design.pdf
[22:23:20] <_Dane> An amazing number of people under Linux seem to do their IRC from the Terminal.
[22:23:31] <_Dane> Not that that's the ideal either
[22:23:35] <MYOB> _Dane using an IRC client
[22:23:39] <[Beta]> _Dane, using ugly progs like irssi & bitchx :)
[22:23:40] <surrounder> I think it is Dane__
[22:23:49] <kokito> Advant, was written by Dominic Giampolo, the author of the original BFS
[22:23:52] *** TelnetYak has joined #haiku
[22:23:56] <surrounder> gotta love screen+irssi+bitlbee
[22:23:59] <MYOB> I'm usually on here during the daytime (UTC) in irssi on a Linux shell
[22:24:00] <TelnetYak> MYOB - as you were saying :P
[22:24:01] <_Dane> surrounder If you like remembering all the necessary magic spells, yes  :-)
[22:24:06] <surrounder> hehe
[22:24:07] <surrounder> np with that
[22:24:12] <MYOB> TelnetYak you're just WEIRD though :P
[22:24:19] *** TelnetYak has quit IRC
[22:24:24] <DeadYak> so? :P
[22:24:29] <Advant> kokito:  thanks
[22:24:36] <[Beta]> didnt get my ctcp version done in time..
[22:24:46] <_Dane> bbiab
[22:24:47] *** _Dane has quit IRC
[22:24:47] *** Dane__ has quit IRC
[22:24:49] <DeadYak> [Beta]: considering that was telnet you wouldn't have gotten a response :P
[22:24:57] <gotaku> If I start a program using UserBootscript how can it crash during one boot and not another?
[22:25:03] <MYOB> yeah, it doesn't implement CTCP
[22:25:06] *** Dane_ has joined #Haiku
[22:25:07] <[Beta]> yeah, yeah :p
[22:25:14] <MYOB> gotaku not all crashes are replicable
[22:25:21] <DeadYak> I don't know how to do a \1 in telnet
[22:25:35] <DeadYak> MYOB: CTCP's just a privmsg with \1 on the beginning and end of the message, nothing special about it
[22:25:43] *** Dane_ has quit IRC
[22:25:47] <gotaku> MYOB: Yes but I'm running with the same image and starting the program at the same time.
[22:25:53] <MYOB> OK, DeadYak doens't implement CTCP :P
[22:25:56] *** TTRanger has joined #Haiku
[22:25:59] <DeadYak> wb
[22:26:03] <MYOB> I forgot you wrote this fecking IRC client, hence you'd know the stuff....
[22:26:09] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC
[22:26:14] <TTRanger> narf
[22:26:18] <DeadYak> one would hope I'd know it or writing it would've been creative :P
[22:26:50] <gotaku> Actually it my case both runs crash but they crash at different times.
[22:26:52] <MYOB> DeadYak ah, "creative", thats how I'll describe my code in work!
[22:26:57] <ddew|bofh> TTRanger: *poit*
[22:26:58] <ddew|bofh> :P
[22:27:03] <TTRanger> splonk
[22:27:07] <DeadYak> MYOB: why not? :)
[22:27:08] <ddew|bofh> egad
[22:27:10] <MYOB> as opposed to "shite"
[22:27:29] <DeadYak> MYOB: be happy you don't have to decipher my coworker's code that likes to nest ? :s
[22:27:52] <Dr_Evil> ...updating 5999 target(s)... (slow notebook)
[22:27:55] <DeadYak> ouch
[22:28:06] <MYOB> DeadYak I have to work out code thats been translated from Pascal to VBA via VB3 and VB6....
[22:28:26] <DeadYak> owie.
[22:28:31] <MYOB> ...by a monk we keep sealed in a wine cask....
[22:28:38] <DeadYak> can I be sealed in a wine cask?
[22:28:42] <[Beta]> ouch. thats much worse than you made out the other evening.
[22:29:01] <DaaT> you wish DeadYak
[22:29:12] <DeadYak> DaaT: obviously or I wouldn't have asked :P
[22:29:19] <DaaT> :)
[22:29:21] <MYOB> apparently the guy who wrote the Pascal died in 1997
[22:29:42] <DeadYak> the guy who came up with fortran died recently too I believe
[22:29:55] <TTRanger> Also the guy who did the song, "The Monster Mash" just died
[22:29:57] <MYOB> I meant our coder not the language dev ;)
[22:30:00] <DeadYak> oh.
[22:30:05] <DeadYak> never mind :)
[22:30:25] <MYOB> there'd have been no "the" if I meant the language dev
[22:30:26] <Dr_Evil> TTRanger I used to like that song
[22:30:54] <ddew|bofh> meh, is there some setting somewhere in the makefile where i can change the size of the generated haiku.image?
[22:30:59] <ddew|bofh> or rather, where? :)
[22:32:57] *** rgb has quit IRC
[22:33:12] <TTRanger> Wow, this guy was aptly named, "Spectre"  http://www.entertainmentwise.com/artists/00016706_spector.jpg
[22:33:28] <TTRanger> That's Phil Spectre the music promoter in court for murder
[22:33:31] <[Beta]> makefile?? you mean Jam :P but yeah, there's a setting in trunk/build/jam/HaikuImage
[22:33:40] <ddew|bofh> cheers
[22:33:46] <[Beta]> change HAIKU_IMAGE_SIZE ?= 100 ; # 100 MB obviously
[22:33:47] <DaaT> TTRanger: he has a new hairdo now
[22:33:49] <DaaT> :)
[22:33:55] <MYOB> Phil Spector
[22:34:02] <MYOB> not Spectre
[22:34:03] <[Beta]> I did what?!?
[22:34:04] <[Beta]> heh
[22:34:15] <TTRanger> MYOB Spectre fits him better  :-)
[22:34:16] <MYOB> [Beta] you're name isn't Phil....
[22:34:29] <[Beta]> MYOB, sometimes I forget quotes ;)
[22:34:36] *** Euver has quit IRC
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[22:35:18] <MYOB> Spector once held The Ramones hostage and atempted to shoot Leonard Cohen and John Lennon
[22:35:20] *** SiCuTDeUx_ has joined #haiku
[22:36:32] *** mmadia has joined #haiku
[22:36:55] <ddew|bofh> wow, a proper nutjob in other words :)
[22:37:38] <MYOB> and a very good music producer
[22:38:26] <ddew|bofh> it's a thin line between genius and lunacy
[22:38:33] <MYOB> pity he nearly killed some very good musicians...
[22:38:42] <mmu_man> hmm I hope Haiku does send the _UPDATE_ message correctly
[22:38:47] <DaaT> he could have gone for the bad ones
[22:38:52] <mmu_man> didn't remember I had to trap it in DispatchMessage
[22:38:53] <DaaT> spice girls for one
[22:39:01] <DaaT> britney spears
[22:39:37] <CIA-18> marcusoverhagen * r20845 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/media/debug.h: changed header guard
[22:40:29] <CIA-18> marcusoverhagen * r20846 /haiku/trunk/headers/private/media/MediaDebug.h: new debug header for media kit
[22:40:35] * TTRanger wanders off for awhile
[22:40:37] <MYOB> DaaT hey, Bitchney was OK.... to look at....
[22:40:44] <DaaT> ugh
[22:40:58] <[Beta]> she's a roller coaster to look at...
[22:41:08] <MYOB> hence "was"
[22:41:16] <MYOB> currently she's an ugly trailermom
[22:41:23] <[Beta]> she's OK this week :P
[22:41:30] <DaaT> she was ok because of all the make-up, etc etc
[22:41:42] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC
[22:42:09] *** Advant has left #haiku
[22:42:24] *** nutela has joined #haiku
[22:42:54] <nutela> all right here I am typing from my wireless keyboard by help of the Haiku usb drivers woohoo!
[22:43:04] <MYOB> I'd say she's a slutty whore
[22:43:12] <MYOB> DaaT's kinda girl ;)
[22:43:18] <nutela> there are some problems but it basically works
[22:43:30] * DaaT shows those 2 lines to his gf
[22:43:35] <DaaT> don't think she'll like that
[22:44:10] <nutela> strangely the mouse doesn't work....
[22:44:18] <MYOB> she tolerates the slutty whore sheep!
[22:44:28] *** oco has quit IRC
[22:44:46] <DaaT> sheep are different
[22:44:54] <ddew|bofh> heh, ok vlc in qemu wasn't exactly a huge hit :P
[22:44:58] * DaaT slaps MYOB
[22:45:04] <ddew|bofh> but ftp worked just fine :)
[22:45:05] <MYOB> yeah, they don't go baaaaing to the papers
[22:45:17] <DaaT> yep
[22:47:14] <MYOB> ...of course, some day we'll find out DaaT wasn't joking about the sheep
[22:47:40] * DaaT doesn't comment
[22:48:01] *** nutela has quit IRC
[22:48:20] <MYOB> we can then sell his story to the tabloids
[22:48:46] *** nutela has joined #haiku
[22:48:47] <DaaT> i'll take 60%
[22:48:47] <MYOB> "Daniel, a recluse in his late 20s used so-called 'alternative' operating systems in his perverted lifestyle" :P
[22:49:06] <nutela> crash :-)
[22:49:08] <DaaT> "BeOS is to blame!!" says jack thompson
[22:49:26] <nutela> don't jerk out the usb receiver from the wireless keyb haha
[22:49:52] <gotaku> I may have asked this before but is there any reason that unzip requires the app server?
[22:50:10] <MYOB> because it uses BeOS attributes and is hence a BApplication, IIRC
[22:50:24] *** JBurton has joined #haiku
[22:50:33] <DaaT> ciao JBurton
[22:50:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton
[22:50:40] <JBurton> hi all
[22:50:42] <JBurton> hey DaaT
[22:51:17] <nutela> Hi Mr. Burton
[22:51:20] <nutela> ;-)
[22:51:36] <gotaku> MYOB: Why would it need BeOS attributes?
[22:51:46] <gotaku> unrar doesn't need the app server.
[22:51:47] <MYOB> gotaku so it can preserve them...
[22:51:58] <MYOB> RAR doesn't preserve file system attributes
[22:52:02] <MYOB> zip/unzip do
[22:52:19] <nutela> doesn't anyone want to share my joy that the Haiku USB drivers are partially working (as I'm typing this)?
[22:52:34] <DeadYak> gotaku: what do you mean, needs the app_server?
[22:52:39] <DeadYak> you mean libbe?
[22:52:42] <MYOB> DeadYak won't run without it
[22:52:50] <gotaku> DeadYak: It won't run in safemode.
[22:52:56] <DeadYak> oh.
[22:53:09] <DeadYak> that doesn't surprise me, libbe probably doesn't get init'd
[22:53:19] <DeadYak> if they're using BNode to do attribute stuff that won't really work
[22:53:32] <nutela> cool but unusable that mouse is, ah too bad, maybe later
[22:54:31] <gotaku> MYOB: I'm not sure what you mean by "preserve file system attributes".
[22:54:31] <Vernaldo> I have returned. VMWare Player for OSX does not exist.
[22:54:40] <DeadYak> gotaku: BeOS supports attribute streams on files
[22:54:46] *** StylusEater_Work has quit IRC
[22:54:46] <DeadYak> icons, file types, etc. are all attributes
[22:54:47] <nutela> JonathanThompson
[22:54:50] <MYOB> gotaku BFS has extended attributes
[22:54:53] <DeadYak> zip knows how to preserve those
[22:54:54] <DeadYak> rar does not
[22:55:01] <DeadYak> though zip can only preserve 64KB of them
[22:55:10] <MYOB> if you tar, rar, etc a file from a BFS partition, they're fucked
[22:55:11] <DeadYak> so it might not always work for large StyledEdit docs
[22:55:23] <MYOB> Zip has an experimental, somewhat working preservation feature
[22:55:30] <gotaku> Oh I see.
[22:55:41] <MYOB> this is why all BeOS apps are in zip files whereas Linux uses tgz/tbz
[22:55:45] <DeadYak> MYOB: it's not really experimental, it's used for OS/2 as well :)
[22:56:04] <MYOB> DeadYak I meant the fact that it was an experimental patch that somehow got in to mainline ;)
[22:56:10] <DeadYak> oh
[22:56:11] <MYOB> i've had it fuck up once
[22:56:15] <nutela> HOw can you deal with that when you want to make a backup to dvd / cd? Use BFS as the FS only real option then?
[22:56:15] <MYOB> in,, erm, 7 years
[22:56:29] <MYOB> ye3s
[22:56:29] * DaaT listens to Bjork - Earth Intruders
[22:56:30] <MYOB> yes*
[22:56:31] *** bga has quit IRC
[22:56:38] <DeadYak> or write a BeOS native archiver that's attribute smart
[22:56:54] <DeadYak> but that'd be more effort :)
[22:56:55] <MYOB> BeOS is brain-dead as goes optical media being R/W
[22:57:05] <MYOB> it assumes its Read-only
[22:57:10] <MYOB> so I cna't write to my DVDRAMs :/
[22:57:14] <nutela> no driver for that?
[22:57:27] <MYOB> its the IDE driver I would suspect
[22:57:37] <gotaku> You mean there isn't a native beos archiver already?
[22:57:40] <MYOB> MacOS 8 knows they're writable...
[22:57:44] <nutela> and I happen to have an LG burner who writes nothing better then dvdram
[22:57:57] <MYOB> gotaku no. Is there a native Linux one? No....
[22:58:00] <MYOB> doesn't -have- to be one
[22:58:04] <MYOB> well, there is PKG
[22:58:36] <MYOB> which places file attributes in another accompanying file then gzips the lot
[22:58:40] <gotaku> What was the point in even asking that question?
[22:58:54] <MYOB> its rhetorical
[22:59:01] <MYOB> you were asking it as if there -had- to be one
[22:59:04] <nutela> cool
[22:59:09] <MYOB> when there isn't nor does there have to be
[22:59:40] <gotaku> There doesn't have to be GUI's either, what's your point?
[22:59:44] * nutela has set Vision font to 30 to tetst wireless typing distance
[22:59:56] <MYOB> because you asked the question as if there had to be one!
[23:00:01] <MYOB> re-read what you typed
[23:00:23] <nutela> MYOB stop bitching
[23:00:41] <nutela> crusader
[23:00:51] <gotaku> MYOB: Is it not surpising that BeOS doesn't come with it's own archiver that handles file attributes?
[23:00:57] <[Beta]> swords or pistols?
[23:01:00] <MYOB> no, because it comes with Zip
[23:01:05] * DeadYak pets Crusader: No Remorse
[23:01:08] <DeadYak> that game ruled
[23:01:08] <MYOB> which can handle them, to a point
[23:01:09] <nutela> sords ;-)
[23:01:12] <nutela> +w
[23:01:17] <MYOB> pistols, dawn, 30 yards
[23:01:18] <[Beta]> MYOB, Linux is more than a kernel, so you'd want to ask, does Ubuntu have an archiver... ;)
[23:01:43] * nutela smiles
[23:01:45] *** Master199 has joined #haiku
[23:02:09] <gotaku> Depends what you mean by an archiver. Would debs count?
[23:02:11] *** Ithamar has joined #haiku
[23:02:11] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Ithamar
[23:02:12] <nutela> I'll get my glock MYOB
[23:02:16] <[Beta]> gotaku, no :P
[23:02:24] <MYOB> gotaku if you see them as counting., then PKG counts
[23:02:34] <MYOB> Ithamar fix my damn IDE drivers already! :P :P
[23:02:37] * DeadYak pets Ithamar
[23:02:56] <MYOB> (yes I know its not going to happen :()
[23:03:15] <Vernaldo> BeOS died young.
[23:03:16] <Ithamar> MYOB: What IDE drivers?
[23:03:19] <DaaT> Ithamar!!
[23:03:22] <DaaT> two nights in a row.. wow
[23:03:23] <DaaT> are you sick? :P
[23:03:26] * Ithamar pets DaaT & DeadYak
[23:03:27] * DaaT pets Ithamar
[23:03:31] <Ithamar> lol @ DaaT
[23:03:34] <MYOB> Ithamar you did the Zeta one right?
[23:03:39] <Vernaldo> Does anyone remember BeOS running on Pippin?
[23:03:50] <Ithamar> yup most of the mods in ZETA IDE/ATA stack
[23:03:54] <Vernaldo> mighty morphin pippin
[23:03:59] <Ithamar> (based on Thomas' work)
[23:04:11] <MYOB> since 1.2 some or all IDE controllers have fucked optical, erm, stuff
[23:04:12] <DaaT> (that explains a lot :P)
[23:04:16] <MYOB> best way to put it is stream corruption
[23:04:25] <MYOB> can't reliable rip CDs, or reliably watch/rip DVDs
[23:04:48] <MYOB> audio comes out garbled, or the DVD data stream goes fucked and VLC cna't crack it let alone decode it
[23:05:01] <Ithamar> weird.... now I wasn't involved until the end of the 1.2 release.....
[23:05:02] <MYOB> Pippin? It didn't run on the Apple/Bandai Pippin if thats what you menat...
[23:05:16] <MYOB> Ithamar well I only noticed it on 1.2.1 tbh
[23:05:23] <MYOB> but TTRanger says it happened earlier
[23:05:32] <Vernaldo> MYOB: it did
[23:05:35] <gotaku> Does MediaPlayer support xvid?
[23:05:40] * mmu_man getting lost again in XEmacs internals
[23:05:44] <MYOB> and i used 1.2 on Intel controllers now I've got Via
[23:05:47] <MYOB> Vernaldo erm. It didn't
[23:05:52] <mmu_man> w00t I didn't even remember writing this code
[23:05:54] <Vernaldo> MYOB: it did
[23:05:56] <MYOB> it barely ran on any Apple gear
[23:06:02] <Ithamar> VIA SATA MYOB?
[23:06:16] <Ingenu> gotaku, better use VLC
[23:06:20] <MYOB> Ithamar SATA HDD and IDE DVD-RAM
[23:06:42] <nutela> mmu_man try emacs psychiater ;-)
[23:06:45] <MYOB> Vernaldo no, believe me, it didn't. It didn't run on any of that era of Apple hardware, as it actually couldn't
[23:06:56] <gotaku> Why don't we just use VLC by default?
[23:07:12] <Vernaldo> MYOB: it did run. It was an ultra secret project.
[23:07:13] <Ithamar> on Haiku?
[23:07:19] <MYOB> gotaku its way less reliable than MediaPlayer, and its far less capable of handling problems
[23:07:20] <Ithamar> gotaku?
[23:07:38] <gotaku> Me.
[23:07:40] <MYOB> Vernaldo no, it wasn't. Its completely impossible for it to have due to the Pippins architechture
[23:07:49] <MYOB> also, if it was "ultra secret" how would we remember it?
[23:07:53] <Ithamar> yeah, I meant to ask you if you meant on Haiku :P
[23:08:02] <MYOB> problems for VLC = high CPU or HDD load
[23:08:03] * nutela .oO wtf is Pippins?
[23:08:11] <Ithamar> my typing is pretty lousy, did too much of that @ work
[23:08:12] <MYOB> nutela Apple's game console
[23:08:18] <nutela> oh
[23:08:19] <DaaT> from LoTR
[23:08:23] <DeadYak> hah
[23:08:24] <nutela> hah
[23:08:26] <MYOB> it came out before Be ran on MacPPCs
[23:08:27] <nutela> a
[23:08:29] <Vernaldo> MYOB: well, because I read it on an ultra secret forum on the interweb
[23:08:34] <DeadYak> was Pippin Hobbit-powered? :P
[23:08:36] <gotaku> Does the normal BeOS download from the vlc site work in Haiku?
[23:08:42] <MYOB> it went off the market before Be ran on MacPPCs
[23:08:47] <MYOB> DeadYak 603e
[23:08:48] <Master199> DeadYak yes ;-)
[23:08:52] <DeadYak> MYOB: oh.
[23:08:54] <MYOB> Vernaldo meaning its pure bullsht
[23:08:57] <nutela> Does Haiku run on the new intel Macs?
[23:09:07] <DeadYak> probably
[23:09:30] <Master199> any ideas how to mount a 250gb BFS partition with R5 -__-?
[23:09:31] <nutela> R5?
[23:09:31] *** ddew|bofh has quit IRC
[23:09:35] <mmu_man> nutela yeah M-x doctor :))
[23:09:45] <nutela> haha
[23:09:48] <MYOB> the first Mac capable developer PREVIEW of BeOS came out after the Pippin stopped production
[23:09:49] <DaaT> Master199: 5x50GB? :P
[23:09:51] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku
[23:10:08] <MYOB> Master199 hope to fuck its on SCSI ;)
[23:10:13] <MYOB> impossible on IDE
[23:10:14] <Ithamar> Nutela, can't be done with the std IDE drivers, and Thomas never put his new IDE replacement driver on bebits
[23:10:18] <nutela> I don't like emacs mmu_man too many shortcuts I'd like it that it would just work
[23:10:29] <Master199> well ... i love it !
[23:10:32] <MYOB> Ithamar anyway, something tells me this problem ain't gonna be fixed.... might go to using a USB DVD drive
[23:11:06] <Ithamar> not on ZETA I'm afraid
[23:11:07] <Vernaldo> Master199: in my experience, beos r5 won't go beyond 120GB.
[23:11:14] <JBurton> bye all
[23:11:16] <Ithamar> Vernaldo: correct
[23:11:21] *** JBurton has quit IRC
[23:11:22] <Ithamar> bye JBurton :)
[23:11:27] <DeadYak> was that a bug in BFS or in the IDE drivers?
[23:11:35] <nutela> Ithamar will it ever get to Haiku or is the zeta stuff now f-ed because of NDA>
[23:11:36] <nutela> ?
[23:11:40] <MYOB> Vernaldo the Pippins entrie storage+RAM isn't enough to have loaded any version of BeOS, btw
[23:11:46] <Vernaldo> DeadYak: it was a bug in intel architecture of the time. no OS could go beyond that
[23:12:02] <MYOB> Vernaldo no, it was a limitation in LBA
[23:12:13] <DeadYak> Vernaldo: um, no, it was an IDE-specific limitation LBA48
[23:12:14] <Ithamar> Problem with the ATA/IDE arch
[23:12:15] <MYOB> Macintosh systems have it too
[23:12:20] <DeadYak> before LBA48 I mean
[23:12:21] <Master199> wasnt BFS the one wich can up to hundred-millions-billions TB or something like that ? *g*
[23:12:31] <MYOB> Master199 it will - not on IDE on R5 ;)
[23:12:34] <nutela> haha
[23:12:43] <DeadYak> *theoretically* BFS can handle a 16 exabyte filesystem
[23:12:44] <Ithamar> nutela: In principle those drivers could be moved to Haiku....
[23:12:48] <Vernaldo> MYOB: Dominic Giampaollo did it
[23:12:56] <nutela> crap that way I'm never going to get BeOS on a modern machine
[23:12:57] <MYOB> Vernaldo no, he didn't
[23:13:00] <MYOB> stop making stuff up
[23:13:02] <nutela> running
[23:13:03] <Ithamar> nutela: most of the drivers didn't use any specific Be, Inc code
[23:13:14] <nutela> Really Ithamar?
[23:13:21] <nutela> no NDA problems?
[23:13:26] <MYOB> BeOS didn't run on the Apple Pippin, face it
[23:13:27] <nutela> that would be great
[23:13:34] <Ithamar> nope, no problem
[23:13:35] <Vernaldo> MYOB: yes he did
[23:13:36] * nutela Teehee!
[23:13:44] <Vernaldo> nutela: buy Zeta
[23:13:48] * nutela has played too many Zeldas
[23:13:56] <DaaT> Ithamar: are you sure? no nda? *looks for lefty*
[23:13:56] <MYOB> Vernaldo its impossible to buy Zeta now
[23:13:59] <DaaT> *g*
[23:14:05] <Vernaldo> MYOB: no way!
[23:14:14] <MYOB> considering its not on sale anymore
[23:14:15] <nutela> Vernaldo BUY zeta?
[23:14:20] <nutela> are you nuts?
[23:14:27] <MYOB> due to its distributors pulling it for legal reasons
[23:14:37] <nutela> I donwloaded it with bittorrent, never liked it
[23:14:40] <nutela> sorry
[23:14:42] <gotaku> Turns out they never had the rights.
[23:14:56] <DaaT> they didn't?
[23:15:05] <Vernaldo> MYOB: but but I've been saving for 2.5 years! I will get the remaining money I'm missing in May 3!
[23:15:06] <MYOB> Allegedly (tm)
[23:15:17] <nutela> I mean it was great to use my usb wacom and refraction WHICH I BOUGHT
[23:15:29] <Ithamar> hey I haven't seen prove they didn't have license, just as little as that they had....
[23:15:30] <nutela> but it has a bug (refraction)
[23:15:37] <MYOB> go out and gt drunk on it instead
[23:15:40] <Ithamar> (publicly, that is)
[23:15:40] <Vernaldo> Ithamar: amen
[23:16:01] <Vernaldo> MYOB: what about the games and stuff?
[23:16:24] <nutela> i'll test the wacom haha
[23:16:26] <MYOB> no idea if you can still get them
[23:16:31] <MYOB> you need 1.2.1 or 1.5 to run them
[23:16:32] <nutela> hang on if it crashes
[23:16:38] <[Beta]> they're platformless :o
[23:17:07] <MYOB> juet like a Bandai Pippin port of BeOS would have been :P :P
[23:17:32] <nutela> yeah!
[23:17:35] <nutela> it works!
[23:17:56] <nutela> my wacom graphire4 works in R5 with the haiku drivers w00t!
[23:17:57] <Vernaldo> what works?
[23:18:03] <Ithamar> it could be an idea to ask them to make them R5 compatible
[23:18:09] <Ithamar> (the games)
[23:18:24] <DaaT> cool nutela
[23:18:25] <MYOB> something tells me they just want out, in total
[23:18:35] <nutela> Thanks DaaT
[23:18:38] * [Beta] agrees
[23:18:41] <DaaT> :)
[23:18:41] * nutela is happy
[23:18:57] <[Beta]> more development costs for 3(?) gamers.
[23:19:08] <nutela> I just wished Frans hadn't sold Refraction to Magnussoft
[23:19:37] <nutela> lol
[23:19:53] <nutela> so anyone got a intel mac?
[23:19:59] <DaaT> not I
[23:20:08] <MYOB> when I go to NY I wll
[23:20:12] <Ithamar> wonder how many of us would be interested in buying those games....
[23:20:13] <nutela> I didn't ask who didn't duh :-)
[23:20:14] <MYOB> not giving Apple price + 40% for .ie
[23:20:35] <nutela> ? ie.?
[23:20:50] <nutela> buy one for me MYOB ;-)
[23:21:00] * Vernaldo raises hand
[23:21:05] <nutela> got any Czech channels yet MYOB hehe
[23:21:07] *** shackan has quit IRC
[23:21:09] <MYOB> .ie = Ireland
[23:21:13] <MYOB> nutela had them for ages
[23:21:18] <MYOB> CT1/CT2/CT24/Ocko
[23:21:26] <nutela> Nova?
[23:21:30] <nutela> Prima?
[23:21:33] <Vernaldo> nutela: intel mac here
[23:21:42] <nutela> Vernaldo does Haiku run on it?
[23:21:59] <Vernaldo> nutela: boots fine into windows and ubuntu
[23:22:06] <nutela> right....
[23:22:24] <Vernaldo> nutela: since three hours ago I've been trying to get it to run under Q (Qemu for OSX)
[23:22:25] <nutela> tried it?
[23:22:36] <nutela> yeah I saw that
[23:22:43] <MYOB> no Nova or Prima
[23:22:44] <petterhj> when talking about macs and stuff.. does anyone know if some BeOS version would work on a Macintosh LC 475?
[23:22:49] <MYOB> that requires a UPC card
[23:22:50] <nutela> isn't there really a vmware for OSX?
[23:22:51] <MYOB> petterhj nop
[23:22:51] <Vernaldo> there's no vmware player
[23:22:55] <MYOB> thats a 680x0
[23:23:24] *** bherg has joined #haiku
[23:23:25] <Vernaldo> nutela: it's got really cool hardware (not counting hard drive,CPU, and RAM)
[23:23:26] <petterhj> oh.. it does run MacOS 8 right? (not by standard)
[23:23:29] <nutela> hmm can't you download the server? or isn't that one free like on windows and linux Vernaldo?
[23:23:30] <Ingenu> night
[23:23:32] <MYOB> http://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_lc/stats/mac_lc_475.html
[23:23:32] <bherg> hi there
[23:23:41] <MYOB> 8.1 68k
[23:23:47] *** Ingenu has quit IRC
[23:23:55] <MYOB> which has minimal apps more than 7.5
[23:24:16] <Vernaldo> Is Ingenu=Eugenia?
[23:24:36] <gotaku> I wonder what these new "Amigas" will be like.
[23:24:47] * nutela remembers that the newest wacom driver is for zeta only :-(
[23:25:02] <MYOB> Vernaldo no#
[23:25:13] <nutela> haha
[23:25:17] <MYOB> one is male and french the other is female and greek...
[23:25:34] *** Dr_Evil has quit IRC
[23:25:43] <bherg> anyone with trident cyberblade xp running ok?
[23:25:46] <Vernaldo> ...or that's what they have us thinking...
[23:25:56] <MYOB> no, thats what they are
[23:25:58] <nutela> MYOB can you say having sex the greek way in the UK or is it only in Holland?
[23:26:12] <MYOB> nutela to refer to buggery (to use the legal term), yes
[23:26:26] <Vernaldo> foreigners always blame their bad traits and behavior to the fact that they're foreign
[23:26:31] <nutela> erm what buggery MYOB?
[23:26:36] <Vernaldo> Eugenia, Bernd, the french...
[23:26:37] <MYOB> nutela anal...
[23:26:44] <nutela> argh
[23:26:50] <MYOB> Vernaldo wheres not-foreign for you then
[23:26:52] <nutela> bleh
[23:27:23] <nutela> you can f a woman from behing and it doesn't have to be anal you know, I thought that was being greek
[23:27:34] <MYOB> nutela no, greek refers to anal...
[23:27:48] <nutela> oh sorry
[23:27:54] * Ithamar pets MYOB the porn expert :P
[23:27:55] <MYOB> well here anyway ;)
[23:28:01] <DeadYak> hahahaha
[23:28:01] <Vernaldo> MYOB: that's not the point. The point is that people say dumb things or rude things, and they blame it on beink [____]ish
[23:28:04] * nutela gets red behind his ears
[23:28:09] <DeadYak> haha
[23:28:22] <DaaT> poor nutela
[23:28:23] <DaaT> :)
[23:28:25] <MYOB> so says the dutchman ffs Ithamar :P
[23:28:33] <nutela> that's what you get by having 4 sat dishes MYOB hehe
[23:28:34] <nutela> ;-P
[23:28:35] <Ithamar> yup, even one that works in Amsterdam ;)
[23:28:43] <DaaT> Vernaldo: MYOB's question is relevant
[23:28:45] <Ithamar> the centre of Amsterdam, no less :P
[23:29:01] <DeadYak> so we have MYOB the porn expert and Ithamar the joint expert? XD
[23:29:03] * DeadYak runs away
[23:29:08] * DaaT misses amsterdam
[23:29:13] <DaaT> and almere
[23:29:14] <DaaT> :)
[23:29:14] <Vernaldo> DaaT: no
[23:29:22] <Ithamar> you're welcome here anytime DaaT :)
[23:29:23] <MYOB> his IP address doesn't come back from ANY of the regional NCCS
[23:29:29] <MYOB> clearly he's in antartica!
[23:29:30] <DaaT> Ithamar: thinking about it ;)
[23:29:51] <DeadYak> MYOB: whose?
[23:29:54] <nutela> I remember when I was a kid that sex over the phone was being erm launched and I called it (naturally) and they said we'll do it like the greek way
[23:29:58] <MYOB> DeadYak Vernaldo's
[23:30:06] <DeadYak> oh.
[23:30:17] <nutela> yeah those were days...
[23:30:27] <DaaT> lol nutela
[23:30:48] <Vernaldo> nutela: so did you?
[23:30:49] <nutela> never understood how someone could have sex by listening to a voice
[23:30:52] <MYOB> apparently its assigned to "MULTIVISION"
[23:31:01] <Vernaldo> nutela: to this day, eh?
[23:31:04] <nutela> I'm not sure
[23:31:06] <mmu_man> Ithamar: http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_xemacs_zeta_pretty_toolbar_speedbar_scrollbar.png
[23:31:11] * nutela hmmmmm
[23:31:16] <DaaT> nutela: you'd be surprised how sexy and exciting the voice of a person can be
[23:31:19] <DaaT> now imagine a sheep!
[23:31:21] <DaaT> :P
[23:31:42] <Ithamar> LOL
[23:31:45] <nutela> What is it with you and sheep DaaT?
[23:31:46] <DeadYak> <DaaT> *unf* <Sheep> BAAAAH! <Daat> *unf* <Sheep> BAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!  - and so on
[23:31:53] <Ithamar> mmu_man: neat :P
[23:32:08] <Ithamar> yes DaaT, please explain :)
[23:32:08] <DaaT> DeadYak: STOP LISTENING TO MY CALLS!!
[23:32:16] <ddew|bofh> a very, very disturbing image
[23:32:18] <MYOB> oh well, he's in the ARIN region
[23:32:22] * DeadYak whistles
[23:32:23] <MYOB> he still hasn't said where he's from though
[23:32:34] <DaaT> nutela: it's a special thing
[23:32:34] <DaaT> :P
[23:33:02] <MYOB> I just hope DaaT hasn't just dropped the B off Bovine....
[23:33:08] <nutela> I always liked the grayish of the non focused tabs of zeta than the focused ones
[23:33:27] <DeadYak> MYOB: pardon?
[23:33:40] <MYOB> DeadYak to what?
[23:33:42] <DaaT> MYOB: uh?
[23:33:45] <DaaT> didn't get that one
[23:33:50] <mmu_man> hey what about changing the Tracker icon from a dog to a sheep for DaaT :))
[23:33:50] <DeadYak> MYOB: drop the B off Bovine = ?
[23:33:58] <MYOB> was saying at least its sheep not cows
[23:33:59] <DeadYak> Tracker -> Shagger
[23:34:05] <mmu_man> Ithamar trying to get buttons to act now :)
[23:34:06] <MYOB> sheep are "ovines", cows are "bovines"
[23:34:11] <nutela> LOL mmu_man
[23:34:18] <DeadYak> MYOB: never heard ovine before
[23:34:24] <DaaT> mmu_man: awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, so nice of you :P
[23:34:25] <MYOB> damn native-speakers-of-other-languages and advanced English wordplay
[23:34:32] <MYOB> *goes to sulk watching BBC 4* :P
[23:34:40] <DeadYak> MYOB: I've seriously never heard ovine in my life :)
[23:34:51] <MYOB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovine
[23:34:58] <DeadYak> Then again I guess with the whole mad cow thing you're more likely to hear 'bovine' than any other
[23:35:01] <MYOB> I notice the page it redirects to is "Domestic sheep"
[23:35:11] <MYOB> Domestic??? Other than in DaaT's gaff
[23:35:12] <DeadYak> the only terms along those lines I know offhand are Bovine and Ursine
[23:35:41] <Ithamar> any Haiku kernel coders awake?
[23:35:43] <DeadYak> domestic?!
[23:35:47] <DaaT> DeadYak: ovine is used here, i just wasn't making the connection
[23:35:50] <DeadYak> Ithamar: Dr_Evil was around earlier
[23:35:58] <DeadYak> Ithamar: as was geist
[23:36:01] * Ithamar prods geist
[23:36:08] <Ithamar> damn, I'm always too late here :(
[23:36:13] <DeadYak> Hugo went to sleep after being awake for like 24h :P
[23:36:23] <DeadYak> Ithamar: just be here 24/7 like the rest of us :P
[23:36:31] *** petterhj has quit IRC
[23:36:35] <MYOB> and yes I do appreciate the irony of using Irishisms alongside latin-derived English
[23:36:37] <Ithamar> DeadYak: If you're willing to pay my bills :P
[23:36:39] * mmu_man is insode XEmacs code, so not really awake
[23:36:41] <DaaT> Ithamar: slow due to old age?
[23:36:42] <mmu_man> inside
[23:36:45] <MYOB> yeah DeadYak, how DO you stay here all the time
[23:36:51] <MYOB> I've never not been able to get your attention...
[23:36:52] <DaaT> MYOB: he has no life
[23:37:46] <Ithamar> just wondering about that Device Manager stuff in Haiku (used for IDE/ATA/SCSI drivers)
[23:37:57] <Ithamar> was thinking of using that for the HDA driver too....
[23:38:11] <Ithamar> have Codec drivers below the main HDA driver
[23:38:14] <MYOB> I rarely surface between 0200 and 0800 UTC anymore...
[23:38:29] <Ithamar> (and possibly modem drivers)
[23:38:39] * DaaT pets Ithamar
[23:38:50] <gotaku> Does Haiku have a device manager application that will show all your hardware?
[23:39:21] <MYOB> quick! lock him in BGAs basement!
[23:39:21] <Ithamar> lol
[23:39:21] <MYOB> its the only way to guarantee productivity!
[23:39:22] <Ithamar> gotaku: I don't think it is implemented yet, but listdev works I think
[23:39:23] <MYOB> _hugo is down there too isn't he?
[23:39:39] *** nutela has quit IRC
[23:39:44] <MYOB> he can speak the same native language as BGA too which is a boost for begging for food ;)
[23:39:50] *** sarcas has joined #haiku
[23:39:52] *** petterhj has joined #haiku
[23:39:53] <Ithamar> Donno, I prefered the yT basement, it actually contained the cooler for the cola :P
[23:39:58] <DeadYak> hahahahahhaa
[23:40:01] <DeadYak> I knew you'd say that
[23:40:05] *** nutela has joined #haiku
[23:40:22] <MYOB> Ithamar want to come work for us? Its not a basement, its a windowless room :P
[23:40:26] <DaaT> Ithamar: whichever basement, it _had_ to have frank in there
[23:40:32] <DaaT> mmmmmmmmmm... burritos... *drool*
[23:40:59] <nutela> crash again :-( that usb stack is quite unstable
[23:41:14] *** MauriceK has quit IRC
[23:41:18] <MYOB> when all the blinds in all the offices are closed the coding floor in our HQ literally feels like its closing in on you
[23:41:20] <Ithamar> MYOB: Would I be developing BeOS/Haiku drivers? ;)
[23:41:42] <MYOB> Ithamar no, you'd be patching VBA code or writing C# :P
[23:41:43] <Ithamar> lol @ DaaT
[23:41:48] <Vernaldo> nutela: there is no vmware server for osx
[23:41:49] <Ithamar> MYOB: Sorry, I'll pass
[23:41:55] <DaaT> ;)
[23:42:02] <MYOB> Ithamar did you see my reference to our code quality?
[23:42:03] <Ithamar> even Linux Kernel Hacking is a better option then :P
[23:42:13] <nutela> no vmware product for osx at all Vernaldo?
[23:42:22] <Vernaldo> no
[23:42:27] <Ithamar> MYOB: "patching" you mean? ;)
[23:42:34] <nutela> that's weirtd
[23:42:38] <Vernaldo> so I gotta make qemu work if I want to see haiku on intel mac
[23:42:41] <MYOB> one particularly, nay, core component of our main product was written in some visual Pascal in 1987
[23:42:48] <MYOB> Ithamar its all patches
[23:42:54] <nutela> Can you run OS X in Vmware?
[23:42:57] <MYOB> the guy who wrote it died
[23:43:04] <MYOB> so it was 'translated' to VB3
[23:43:06] <MYOB> then VB6
[23:43:08] <MYOB> and now .NET
[23:43:13] <MYOB> as a result NOBODY knows how it works
[23:43:20] <Ithamar> lol
[23:43:25] <nutela> grin
[23:43:37] <Vernaldo> nutela: wait there's a beta http://www.vmware.com/whatsnew/macsignupform.html
[23:43:49] *** bherg has quit IRC
[23:43:54] <nutela> isn't there sw which can make a diagram of code?
[23:44:00] <MYOB> and all his co-workers are in a different firm too, as we bought the product ;)
[23:44:11] <nutela> see Vernaldo
[23:44:18] <MYOB> well any of them still there 20 years later
[23:44:21] <MYOB> doubt there are many
[23:44:56] <Ithamar> heh, Vernaldo, a spagetti diagram is not going to help understand the sw :P
[23:45:16] <MYOB> Ithamar nutela said that
[23:45:25] <nutela> you know how to eat spagetthi Ithamar?
[23:45:35] <MYOB> correction its not been rewritten to .NET its been rewritten to VBA
[23:45:46] <nutela> visual boy advanced
[23:45:51] <nutela> hehe
[23:45:54] <Ithamar> oops, sorry Vernaldo
[23:45:55] <MYOB> someones trying to clone it sans bugs in C#.net
[23:46:07] <nutela> anyone bought a Wii?
[23:46:18] <nutela> btw
[23:46:19] <gotaku> I haven't.
[23:46:26] <gotaku> I don't really want one.
[23:46:32] <DaaT> <--- with wii
[23:46:33] <Ithamar> oh no, don't start nutela..... /me puts his fingers in DaaT ears.... :P
[23:46:39] <DaaT> too late Ithamar :D
[23:46:41] <Ithamar> darn too late
[23:46:44] <DaaT> as usual
[23:46:45] <DaaT> lol
[23:46:52] * Ithamar troutslaps DaaT
[23:46:53] *** petterhj has quit IRC
[23:46:59] * DaaT enjoys it and asks for more
[23:47:04] <Vernaldo> Ithamar: what do you bring me into the spaghetti conversation for
[23:47:29] <nutela> your name sounds italian lol Vernaldo
[23:47:30] <Ithamar> was just a mis-read action from my side, my sincere appologies
[23:47:33] <Ithamar> heh
[23:47:57] <nutela> I was thinking to hack to the wii to a mediacenter
[23:48:18] <gotaku> Why?
[23:48:18] <DaaT> nutela: www.redkawa.com
[23:48:23] <DaaT> but it's in alpha state
[23:48:30] <nutela> well it has such a nice pointer ;-)
[23:48:39] <MYOB> DaaT plays with his Wii a lot...
[23:48:44] <DaaT> a fully working media center would be awesome
[23:48:49] <DaaT> yes MYOB, yes I do
[23:48:50] <DaaT> :)
[23:48:54] * DaaT pets his Wii
[23:49:49] <gotaku> Why don't the home and end buttons work in the Terminal?
[23:49:52] <nutela> Hey I meant the console not that other thing
[23:49:55] <Vernaldo> nutela: the wiimote sucks for precise movements
[23:50:15] <Vernaldo> nutela: believe me, I fell for that too. I got myself a Gyration mouse (has gyroscope to be used in air)
[23:50:18] <nutela> gotaku you have to set them up
[23:50:42] <gotaku> set... up?
[23:50:45] <nutela> also pointing?
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[23:51:10] <nutela> yeah does anyone know how? there's a script on bebits.com im sure
[23:51:22] <AndyBe> Hello Ithamar.
[23:51:42] <nutela> I forgot but you can look it up on google for any terminal
[23:52:05] <nutela> key bindings terminal home end should get it
[23:52:50] <nutela> I have a gamecube and I find the analog sticks to be crude for FPS
[23:53:04] <nutela> I have destroyed 3 because of that
[23:53:37] <nutela> I couldn't help getting angry when I got killed to many zillion times in metroid prime
[23:53:38] <DaaT> i still have to finish call of duty 3 for the wii
[23:53:40] <DaaT> and zelda of course
[23:53:53] <Ithamar> AndyBe: hey!
[23:53:59] <Yez> Yeah, I need to finish Zelda as well
[23:54:12] <MYOB> i've got PS ONE games I've not opened yet
[23:54:16] <MYOB> as well as a stack of PS2 ones
[23:54:27] <MYOB> so I think it'll be a while before I go 7th gen
[23:54:29] <nutela> I am at the end boss for Metroid prime but I played the Meta Ridley for like 30-40 times and I had to look at youtube to know how to defeat the bastard
[23:54:54] <geist> yeah i remember that guy being a real asshole
[23:55:06] <nutela> my hands were shaking
[23:55:10] <geist> is that the one where it's a clone of yourself?
[23:55:11] <nutela> who?
[23:55:12] <Ithamar> hey, geist is alive :P
[23:55:32] <AndyBe> Ithamar: is your family alive....
[23:55:34] <DaaT> it lives!
[23:55:49] <Ithamar> AndyBe: yups, alive and kicking ;)
[23:55:50] <nutela> Meta Ridley is the bird-dinosaur like creature, it should be a space pirate
[23:55:59] <Ithamar> so how are you AndyBe?
[23:56:20] <geist> poor ridley
[23:56:23] * mmadia 's content with a modded xbox +  old school emu's
[23:56:46] <nutela> or something haha the metriod universe is a bit of a joke name-wise
[23:57:00] <nutela> I hated that part, it was soo darn hard!
[23:57:23] <AndyBe> Ithamar: many changes, at time in school to be a MSCA in the future. Don't like that at all.
[23:57:30] <nutela> He had like and endless life, and then I found out that the european versions are harder!
[23:57:59] <DeadYak> geist: Ridley rules
[23:58:25] <AndyBe> Ithamar:  but everything as is good.
[23:58:26] <nutela> that game is beatiful art-wise
[23:58:28] <DeadYak> geist: the clone of yourself was in Prime 2 wasn't it?
[23:58:33] <nutela> yes
[23:58:46] <AndyBe> Haiku makes big moves.
[23:59:15] <nutela> I'm looking forward playing fps games with the wii, I really wonder if it's that better then sticks

   April 26, 2007  
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