April 17, 2007 
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April 17, 2007 [00:00:01] <DaaT> *nod*[00:00:05] <DaaT> monday morning after BG[00:00:14] <DaaT> behind me is phipps[00:00:33] <petterhj-> I should come down some time.[00:00:39] <DaaT> you should[00:00:48] <DaaT> dusseldorf is beautiful[00:00:55] <DaaT> and BG is great fun of course[00:00:56] <DeadYak> :)[00:01:03] <petterhj-> I've been there (passing through) .p[00:01:05] <petterhj-> hehe[00:01:13] <DaaT> :)[00:02:15] <petterhj-> *the* BeOS convention. ;)[00:02:38] * meianoite predicts a *flurry* of random people joining the channel very shortly... one of urias' shots clearly show #haiku@freenode[00:02:49] <meianoite> and while that was no secret at all...[00:02:52] <DaaT> uh oh[00:03:11] * DaaT uses meianoite as a human(?) shield[00:03:16] <meianoite> the public awareness will definitely rise. q u i c k .[00:03:17] *** pikapika has quit IRC[00:04:08] <meianoite> DaaT I can beat the crap out of BGA but you shouldn't count me as being that tough ;)[00:04:34] <meianoite> I'm not built to handle /.'ng or OSNews-ing =P[00:04:54] <DaaT> bga's a wuss[00:04:55] <DaaT> :D[00:05:10] *** MauriceK has quit IRC[00:05:25] <meianoite> ;D[00:06:58] *** _stippi_ has joined #haiku[00:09:24] <meianoite> lots of luminaries here tonight :)[00:10:51] *** DaaT has left #haiku[00:11:13] <DeadYak> DaaT felt out of place :P[00:11:17] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[00:13:18] <DaaT> night[00:13:22] *** DaaT has quit IRC[00:13:44] <meianoite> seems people are becoming fond of Hydra![00:14:05] <kokito> _stippi_!![00:14:08] * meianoite pets HydraIRC[00:14:11] <_stippi_> hi kokito[00:15:18] <SiCuTDeUx> _stippi_, sound like a cartoon name![00:15:34] <_stippi_> really?[00:15:47] <_stippi_> In German, it means someone small[00:16:09] *** brecht_ has quit IRC[00:17:29] <[Beta]> you used to be SuperSmall? lol[00:17:59] <_stippi_> no, I'm not particularily small, long story how I got that nic[00:18:22] <[Beta]> ok.[00:19:16] <_stippi_> I meant to change my IRC nick back to just "stippi" but it seems someone is using it already. Maybe it is me, but I don't remember the pass.[00:22:32] <meianoite> stippi, happened to me as well, call someone from /stats p and (s)he will reset your password[00:22:45] <meianoite> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#helpfromstaff[00:23:51] *** ekdahl has left #haiku[00:24:26] <Thom_Holwerda> i gtg, ttyl guys[00:24:40] <meianoite> considering how "/msg nickserv info stippi" shows "vision" as your ident name... I guess that was you indeed _stippi_[00:24:56] *** emitrax_ has quit IRC[00:25:40] *** Thom_Holwerda has quit IRC[00:28:39] * meianoite slaps his head as he realized how stupid a bug he produced.[00:30:39] *** remon has left #haiku[00:31:29] *** petterhj- has quit IRC[00:34:21] *** Hummin has joined #haiku[00:34:26] <Hummin> SSUP GURUS!?[00:34:59] *** sarcas has quit IRC[00:35:40] <meianoite> wow, that's much better, before I almost rigged the results to look like crap =P[00:36:56] <SiCuTDeUx> meianoite, bug?[00:37:01] <SiCuTDeUx> meianoite, where?[00:37:57] *** tigerdog has joined #haiku[00:38:41] <kokito> tigerdog!![00:38:45] <DeadYak> tigerdog![00:38:46] * DeadYak pets[00:39:24] <meianoite> SiCuTDeUx my scheduler code[00:39:29] *** Minbari has joined #haiku[00:39:33] <meianoite> there's still something fishy here[00:39:51] <meianoite> like... impossible conditions happening[00:40:07] <meianoite> 12 + 5 is NOT 39, for chrissake =P[00:40:53] <tigerdog> hello DeadYak! hello everyone.[00:41:16] <meianoite> hi, tigerdog[00:41:31] <_stippi_> meianoite: oh, thanks for the info[00:41:57] <guildencrantz> 12 + 12 + 5 = 39...[00:42:25] <guildencrantz> okay, my brain isn't working.[00:42:30] <guildencrantz> I'm going back to sleep.[00:42:36] <kokito> ehem... guildencrantz, looks like you missed a 10 there :)[00:43:07] <meianoite> I guess I'm trashing the context here[00:43:13] <guildencrantz> Hey, 15 minutes left in the work day. You can't expect me to actually achieve anything productive.[00:43:17] <meianoite> either that or GCC is trying to be WAY too smart.[00:44:02] <meianoite> there's stuff going on here that just *can't* happen[00:44:12] <meianoite> under *no* circumnstances =P[00:44:34] <meianoite> ah... except... that... hmmm...[00:45:06] <meianoite> yeah, I did trash the context.[00:48:19] <SiCuTDeUx> meianoite, may be if you stop talking on irc... !! xD[00:49:15] <meianoite> touche =P[00:50:44] <meianoite> hm... looking better, but fishy still[00:51:09] <tigerdog> anyone happen to have a copy of Fontconfig 2.4.2 handy? built on a unix machine?[00:51:32] <tigerdog> need to look at a couple of generated files that are being corrupted when building under Zeta.[00:52:31] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[00:55:32] *** huwnet has joined #haiku[00:55:50] <tigerdog> anyone? maybe somebody running linux here?[00:56:06] <geist> bueller? bueller?[00:56:12] <tigerdog> :)[00:58:08] *** meianoite has quit IRC[01:00:07] *** guildencrantz has quit IRC[01:05:16] *** MikeW has joined #haiku[01:05:21] *** bobwhoops has joined #haiku[01:06:48] *** whoopsbob has quit IRC[01:10:20] *** gotaku has quit IRC[01:10:46] *** ddew|bofh has joined #haiku[01:10:49] <ddew|bofh> o/[01:11:11] <ddew|bofh> finally gotten hold of a box to run haiku on :D[01:11:20] <ddew|bofh> ...and BeOS naturally ;)[01:11:59] *** tigerdog has quit IRC[01:12:24] <ddew|bofh> hmm, this is weird. i can't mount the generated haiku-image with imagemounter[01:12:49] <ddew|bofh> well i can mount it but i can't transfer any files from it to my real partition[01:12:59] <ddew|bofh> that should work, shouldn't it?[01:15:36] <axeld> ddew|bofh: yes, unless you mount it read-only :-)[01:15:45] <NeonLicht> which box os ot, ddew|bofh?[01:15:51] <ddew|bofh> even when i read files from it? :O[01:15:59] <axeld> ddew|bofh: but because of problems with the BeOS cache you might need to reboot first[01:16:28] <ddew|bofh> NeonLicht: an old p3-500 with 192mb ram :)[01:16:42] <ddew|bofh> axeld: please explain[01:16:54] <ddew|bofh> i have to reboot between downloading the file and mounting it?[01:16:57] <NeonLicht> that's a powerful box, ddew|bofh![01:17:13] <NeonLicht> have you managed to install Haiku on it?[01:17:19] <ddew|bofh> NeonLicht: hehe, i'm loving it. fully supported by BeOS[01:17:26] <ddew|bofh> i just got it up and running[01:17:32] <ddew|bofh> trying to install haiku as we speak[01:17:41] <NeonLicht> oh, Oc[01:17:48] <NeonLicht> s/Oc/Ic[01:17:54] <axeld> ddew|bofh: not when you download it, actually, but syncing it between might help, too[01:18:18] <ddew|bofh> so download the file, reboot and then mount it?[01:18:25] <ddew|bofh> that sounds cumbersome :)[01:18:46] <axeld> ddew|bofh: I thought you'd build that file on Haiku[01:18:57] <ddew|bofh> i build it on linux[01:19:07] <ddew|bofh> ftp it over to my beos box and i try to mount it[01:19:18] <axeld> ddew|bofh: in any case, you might want to reboot between having it mount on BeOS and using it afterwards there (ie. in Qemu)[01:19:27] *** oco has quit IRC[01:19:43] <ddew|bofh> the objective is to mount it and then copy the files off to a real partition[01:19:57] <ddew|bofh> which i then reboot to, that's the idea of it anyway[01:19:59] <ddew|bofh> :)[01:20:47] *** huwnet has quit IRC[01:22:36] <ddew|bofh> maybe symlinks are messing with the mount?[01:24:22] *** _stippi_ has quit IRC[01:25:01] <ddew|bofh> nevermind, looks like my build-box messed it up[01:30:32] *** Ronaldst has joined #haiku[01:30:35] *** Besouro_Verde has joined #haiku[01:30:43] *** Besouro_Verde has left #haiku[01:30:51] *** Besouro_Verde has joined #haiku[01:30:58] <Besouro_Verde> existe algum canal brasileiro do haiku?[01:33:52] *** Ronaldst has quit IRC[01:37:36] <ddew|bofh> wow, haiku worked really well here[01:38:33] <ddew|bofh> way speedy and fun, even got the pleasure of shutting it off properly after messing around with it :)[01:39:48] *** Mazon is now known as mazon[01:42:10] <axeld> Besouro_Verde: no idea[01:43:05] <ddew|bofh> hat's off to all contributors. i'd run it in qemu before but the feeling of running it on bare metal is amazing :)[01:44:54] <Grackle> I can't wait to run it on some real hardware.[01:45:17] <axeld> ddew|bofh: it's not quite there yet, but it's okay already :-)[01:46:01] <ddew|bofh> someone mentioned that it's already surpassed R4 ;)[01:46:17] <ddew|bofh> nevertheless, it's buggy but it looks amazing and is quite speedy[01:48:03] <ddew|bofh> if the rapid development keeps up i wouldn't be surprised to see an R1 release within 12 months[01:48:17] <ddew|bofh> been waiting 6 years for that moment :)[01:48:51] *** the_webers_inc has joined #haiku[01:50:14] *** Besouro_Verde has left #haiku[01:57:09] <CHodapp> wonder if I have any suitable hardware around[01:57:17] <CHodapp> there's the Pentium II that doesn't boot...[01:57:24] <CHodapp> the Pentium laptop with 24 MB RAM...[01:57:41] <CHodapp> oh, and a Celeron that I wish would just die so I could quit supporting it[01:59:04] <ddew|bofh> hehe, i have a ton of hardware that i just can't bear to throw out[01:59:48] <ddew|bofh> most of it works though, just don't have any use for it[02:19:19] *** aldeck has quit IRC[02:34:29] *** Sloar has joined #haiku[02:38:02] *** weltschmerz has joined #haiku[02:41:38] *** forQed has joined #haiku[02:45:12] *** pyCube has joined #haiku[02:46:00] <pyCube> schism[02:47:02] <pyCube> seriously.. how the hell do you, um, be alive, and not know who the vice pres of the usa is...especially if youre an american?[02:47:09] *** Jin has joined #Haiku[02:47:54] *** Hummin has quit IRC[02:50:12] *** kad77_ has joined #haiku[02:50:13] *** kad77 has quit IRC[02:50:14] *** kad77_ is now known as kad77[03:02:49] *** gravy_ has quit IRC[03:07:46] *** Minbari has quit IRC[03:08:11] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20729 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (TCPEndpoint.cpp TCPEndpoint.h): support TCP Window Scale on sent segments.[03:20:02] *** the_webers_inc has quit IRC[03:20:11] *** forQed has quit IRC[03:21:58] *** gravy has joined #Haiku[03:24:32] *** the_webers_inc has joined #haiku[03:25:20] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20730 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (TCPEndpoint.cpp TCPEndpoint.h): update Window Scaling variables when a simultaneous open is ACKed.[03:25:30] *** jevin has joined #haiku[03:25:54] *** axeld has quit IRC[03:26:08] *** umccullough_work has joined #haiku[03:29:11] <umccullough_work> holy crap...thom didn't osnews that did he?[03:29:17] <umccullough_work> i sure hope not :([03:29:26] <umccullough_work> BAH! damn[03:31:04] <ddew|bofh> i didn't see any links to it, just 2 screenshots :)[03:31:05] <umccullough_work> well, at least he didn't post the link[03:31:20] <umccullough_work> if someone looks closely, they'll see the link in the IRC screenshot ;)[03:31:32] <ddew|bofh> i think it's a newsworthy feat :)[03:31:35] <umccullough_work> but it's down right now anyway[03:31:43] <umccullough_work> i never got it back up and running last night :P[03:31:48] <ddew|bofh> hehe[03:32:05] <ddew|bofh> i didn't get haiku to play nice with my r5 supported nic :([03:32:45] <ddew|bofh> other than that it runs just fine on an old p3[03:32:53] <ddew|bofh> <---- TheDave btw[03:33:10] <ddew|bofh> that nick was owned by someone else, so i went with my old freenode ident[03:34:26] <ddew|bofh> beos runs beautyfully on that machine, 500mhz with 192mb ram :)[03:34:36] <umccullough_work> yeah, that's a decent box for R5 ;)[03:34:42] <umccullough_work> what NIC?[03:34:59] <umccullough_work> you can theoretically grab the driver from R5 and use it in Haiku[03:35:10] <umccullough_work> several have reported success doing that[03:38:22] <kad77> does R5 support adaptec SCSI RAID controllers, ie 3200S?[03:39:03] <silverpower> hehe, '...the Haiku groupies^W axe murderers^W^W users and developers...'[03:39:59] <ddew|bofh> umccullough_work: i guess i could try that, gonna set up a nice dev enviroment on R5 first[03:40:20] <umccullough_work> lol, i guess there was a bit of discussion about me today ;)[03:40:41] <ddew|bofh> oh, because of the robin hood thing?[03:40:53] <umccullough_work> yeah, people asking where i live, whether i'm a haiku dev, etc.[03:40:59] <umccullough_work> kinda funny to read it[03:41:00] <kad77> pls explain?[03:41:33] <kad77> http://www4.osnews.com/story/17710/Screenshots_of_Haiku_Serving_Webpage[03:41:44] <umccullough_work> http://echelog.matzon.dk/logs/browse/haiku/1176686773[03:41:45] <kad77> that? haven't read it yet[03:42:13] <umccullough_work> it was funny too cuz my home machine obviously lost its connection and reconnected - thus making it seem like i was there at first ;)[03:42:34] <umccullough_work> geist, i do live in Sacramento, i don't come into SF much :([03:42:52] <umccullough_work> well, correction: I live in Grass Valley which is 1 hour north-east of Sacramento[03:44:17] <kad77> ok, opinion, I was thinking of setting up an automated linux cross compiler for haiku (to test for waring count, severity, other info)[03:45:10] <kad77> I have a adaptec SCSI RAID with 3 18GB 10k disks I can use ... if I was building on on AMD3400, how much would the build speed increase over say UDMA5 IDE?[03:45:38] <kad77> it would be some old 40GB 5400/7200 disk (don't know which of hand)[03:46:07] <umccullough_work> i wouldn't know :/[03:46:31] <kad77> say, whats your clean compile time for trunk less buildtools?[03:47:04] <umccullough_work> on my PIII 600?[03:47:07] <umccullough_work> in R5?[03:47:12] <umccullough_work> > 2 hours[03:47:13] <kad77> um[03:47:19] <kad77> hmm[03:47:38] <umccullough_work> on a core 2 duo in linux, dr_evil claims ~6 minutes[03:47:52] <kad77> ok, I'll make the P4 1.6 & IDE 40GB setup instead[03:47:56] <umccullough_work> geist might have a more reasonable number that matches what you're working with[03:48:04] <kad77> no sense wasting good hardware[03:48:20] <kad77> I have hardware coming out my ears. :D[03:48:30] * kad77 loves work surplus[03:48:42] <ddew|bofh> i get about 5 minutes on my core 2 duo with 2gb ram so those figures sound reasonable[03:49:53] <kad77> I think a P4 1.6 should clock in at about an hour with a regular PATA drive then. thats good enough[03:50:22] <kad77> I'm planning on building current SVN every 24 hours and hosting a page with the number of GCC warnings emitted, etc[03:51:08] <ddew|bofh> every 24 hours? sort of like any of the other build factories?[03:51:47] <kad77> what would the impediments to building with linux ICC?[03:51:54] <kad77> *be[03:52:01] <umccullough_work> kad77, you should join Team Haiku[03:52:29] <ddew|bofh> building haiku on linux is pretty straight-foward. the docs on haiku-os.org are spot on[03:52:36] <kad77> ddew: yes, like the other build factories, only I'm going to be focusing on Trac and what warning are not being cleaned up. I'm not hosting images[03:53:03] <ddew|bofh> ah, thanks for clarifying :)[03:53:06] <kad77> umc: I will officially when I have more time. my life is kinda full ATM[03:53:17] <umccullough_work> kad77, understandable ;)[03:53:54] <umccullough_work> i hate to think of "spare hardware" just lying around dormant and unused :D[03:54:02] <kad77> me too[03:54:17] <kad77> I shudder to think of the GFLOPs in my basement[03:54:20] <umccullough_work> but then again, my electricity bill is a bit higher since I joined Team Haiku[03:54:25] <kad77> wasting away\[03:54:54] * ddew|bofh ponders messing around with the PPC-port[03:55:37] <kad77> I wish I had a dual 970 board ... maybe PA semi will revive the PowerPC line by making a POwerPC like version of the POWER6[03:56:18] <ddew|bofh> i have a couple of imacs gathering dust, could be fun to mess around with haiku on them[03:57:02] <kad77> yeah.. I recycled my old PowerComputing clone[03:57:22] <kad77> still have the SCSI drive with the first few releases of BeOS on it though. .. :D[03:57:29] <ddew|bofh> hehe, cool[03:58:00] <kad77> And a gay collared shirt from Be, Inc. "BeOS Master" heh[03:58:26] <kad77> they sent all kinds of goofy stuff .... free metrowerks was cool though[03:59:07] <ddew|bofh> that was before my time, was a lowly user back then ;)[03:59:07] <kad77> anyways, what would be the holdup building Haiku with Intel ICC for linux?[03:59:26] <ddew|bofh> trying to avoid the GNU pollution?[03:59:57] <kad77> trying to get code that is better, actually[04:00:06] <umccullough_work> kad77, you probably wouldn't get binary compatibility for one...but i'm sure that's not what you're concerned about ;)[04:00:09] <kad77> and it should show other dormant coding errors[04:00:32] *** meianoite has joined #haiku[04:00:35] <kad77> I know axel was trying to get covenant to review us... that would be awesome[04:00:45] <umccullough_work> coverity?[04:00:56] <kad77> yeh, thats what i meant[04:01:20] <kad77> they could write it off their taxes :D :D[04:03:52] *** the_webers_inc has quit IRC[04:05:30] <ddew|bofh> are there any beshare servers still up and running?[04:05:55] * meianoite wonders the same[04:05:58] <kad77> dunno[04:06:01] <meianoite> what's Minox's server again?...[04:06:32] <kad77> has anyone actually archived all the BeOS application source code available online to a local repository?[04:07:05] <kad77> I think these sites are dropping offline by the year[04:08:20] <ddew|bofh> that's sad, it's a great place for finding old beos videos and stuff[04:08:23] *** MikeW has quit IRC[04:08:28] <umccullough_work> tycom is running[04:08:41] <ddew|bofh> can't connect to it from here[04:08:51] <umccullough_work> from what?[04:08:57] <umccullough_work> BeShare in R5?[04:09:01] <ddew|bofh> yeah[04:09:05] <umccullough_work> 2.28?[04:09:10] <ddew|bofh> yup[04:09:16] <kad77> so I take it the BeOS application codebase is just disappearing?[04:09:19] <umccullough_work> my Haiku box connected to it yesterday but then it disconnected[04:09:32] <kad77> we are just left with binaries? :/[04:09:43] <umccullough_work> kad77, whatever's on bebits - sometimes there's source, sometimes not[04:10:07] <umccullough_work> osdrawer.net intends to start hosting source[04:10:22] <kad77> is bebits actively maintained, or will it just disappear soon as well?[04:10:33] <ddew|bofh> i'd set up an ftp in a heartbeat for beos stuff but i cba to hunt down apps :)[04:10:39] * meianoite wonders wether it would be better to use a static var or a global one...[04:10:43] <umccullough_work> well... you'd have to define "active" - seems like nobody moderates it any more[04:10:48] * meianoite will go static and see what happens.[04:11:27] <kad77> hmm, when I get by new business cable line I think I'm just going to pull a local copy of the whole site.[04:11:46] <ddew|bofh> of bebits?[04:11:56] <kad77> sure, I've got a TB or two[04:12:12] <ddew|bofh> that'll take some time :)[04:12:13] * meianoite envies kad77[04:12:26] <meianoite> that's some HD juice indeed :)[04:12:37] <kad77> An idle connection is wasted monthly payments[04:12:49] <umccullough_work> kad77, the problem is - bebits doesn't host the files[04:12:54] <kad77> I[04:13:05] <umccullough_work> and the links are stupid javascript redirect deals I think[04:13:10] <ddew|bofh> kad77: agreed, i try to keep my connection maxed out at all times[04:13:12] <umccullough_work> at least, a lot of them are[04:13:19] <kad77> I'll just speed limit it to 200kb/s so I don't get line downlimited[04:13:37] * ddew|bofh hugs his fiber-connection[04:13:38] <kad77> scripting[04:13:54] * kad77 envies ddew|bofh[04:14:14] <ddew|bofh> living in .se rocks[04:14:23] <umccullough_work> a guy i work with can get 50mbit for ~$140/mo[04:14:30] <kad77> living in .wi doesn;t[04:14:33] <umccullough_work> wish I lived somewhere I could get that ;)[04:14:47] <ddew|bofh> <-- 100/10mbit for ~50$[04:14:54] <kad77> umc: still struggling with ISDN?[04:15:15] <umccullough_work> IDSL, yes :([04:15:37] <kad77> I have point-to-point 2.4ghz bullcrap ATM[04:15:43] <umccullough_work> <-- 144/144kbit for ~$120/mo[04:15:57] <kad77> aaaaiiiiiieeeeeeeee[04:16:07] <umccullough_work> yeah...[04:16:19] <ddew|bofh> isn't those kinds of speeds punishment for shoplifting in some countries?[04:16:55] <umccullough_work> at that price - probably[04:16:56] <kad77> I'll be happy to get 6-8Mbit soon[04:17:04] <kad77> probably $100/mo[04:17:13] <umccullough_work> i'd be happy to get 384kbit[04:17:42] <umccullough_work> JonathanThompson, http://osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=17710&comment_id=231474[04:17:58] <ddew|bofh> there are down-sides to a fast connection though, i've gotten jaded by mass consumption of tv and movies[04:18:18] <kad77> at work, T1 is $400 for 1.5MBit async[04:18:29] <umccullough_work> kad77, i'm seriously considering a T1[04:18:36] <umccullough_work> it would actually be more cost effective[04:18:53] <kad77> it would be better speed for $, but you'd need a neighbor or two[04:18:55] <umccullough_work> and i might be able to split the cost with some neighbors ;)[04:19:01] <umccullough_work> exactly[04:19:10] <kad77> right[04:19:25] <kad77> anyways, $400 is rape, because of the Milwaukee area... may be cheaper by you[04:19:44] <umccullough_work> doubtful - that prices sounds about right[04:19:57] <kad77> one T1 PTP between two sites is $600 :P[04:20:24] *** the_webers_inc has joined #haiku[04:21:32] *** kb7sqi has joined #haiku[04:22:03] <kad77> i'm feeling so lazy right now :D[04:23:08] * CHodapp drops $20 on the floor, 5 feet from kad77[04:23:33] * kad77 realizes CHodapp is probably a few hundred miles away[04:23:42] * kad77 but picks up e-dollars anyway[04:23:54] <CHodapp> see, you're not THAT lazy.[04:24:06] <kad77> yeah, maybe not[04:24:48] <kad77> I'm trying to organize about 8 years worth of data ... and I'm sick of it though[04:25:04] <CHodapp> yeah, I've got about that much on my hard disk[04:25:17] <kad77> I need a 200gb tape drive to I can just archive the stuff and forget about it[04:25:18] <CHodapp> along with various archives that have copies of disks my brother made in the 80's[04:25:44] <kad77> yeah, its a mes[04:26:08] <CHodapp> I was writing some software to do deep archiving where it would enter as far as it could into any archive or disk image and get all the summary info it could, so you could say "how many duplicate files are on this CD" or "where else can I get these files" or "how deep is this buried"[04:26:18] <kad77> I was thinking of making a personal mediawiki to organize it, with ftp links all over it (to the local drive)[04:26:31] <ddew|bofh> hmm, the idea of setting up a beos-/haikuonly ftp has really stuck on me[04:26:48] <meianoite> JonathanThompson, are you there by any chance?[04:27:17] <ddew|bofh> reckon it's a worth-while task?[04:27:22] <umccullough_work> meianoite, i just checked a few mins ago - no response :([04:27:43] <kad77> ddew: i think a rock solid network stack would be worthwhile[04:28:05] <meianoite> I so miss JonathanThompson when I'm here, he's always loads of fun[04:28:18] <meianoite> keeps the mood way up[04:28:28] <ddew|bofh> kad77: well i suck at coding on bare metal and i want to contribute some way[04:28:29] <meianoite> which is good, considering how fucked up I feel today[04:28:46] <kad77> I disagree with this IPv6 SoC thing... thats icing on a non-existent cake[04:29:15] <umccullough_work> kad77, it's a means to an end[04:29:19] * kad77 realizes he is not helping meianoite's mood :D[04:29:34] <meianoite> indeed you're not ;) I suddenly feel so poor and stuff[04:29:43] <meianoite> =P[04:29:48] <ddew|bofh> besides, SoC is free employed coders. it's all good :)[04:30:18] *** ablyss has quit IRC[04:30:21] <kad77> umc: i suppose <grudgingly>[04:30:26] <meianoite> ddew|bofh it goes beyond that: for every successfully completed project, $500 bucks go to Haiku Inc.[04:30:44] <ddew|bofh> even better, free coders and money :)[04:30:58] <meianoite> if we complete all of our projects, it's going to be $4000 total![04:31:07] <_hugo> kad77: what do you disagree with regarding IPv6?[04:31:15] <kad77> meianoite: why do you feel poor? your rich in brains. thats worth more than a bunch of material crap that breaks down and gets tossed[04:31:18] <ddew|bofh> 4K would be awesome[04:31:55] <meianoite> heh, I was just kidding. but it would be cool to afford $400 worth of internet bandwidth[04:32:35] <kad77> hugo: well, networking has been a blackeye for quite some time. If implementing some pie in the sky standard helps it along, I guess thats ok. We could do DECnet too, I suppose[04:32:55] <ddew|bofh> ipv6 is the future, unlike decnet[04:33:02] <meianoite> anyway, I got a 4 megabit conn here, and it's costing me around $30, and 4 megabit is more than I ever dreamed of having back in the 14.4 modem days, so... I'm trying not to be spoiled[04:33:47] <_hugo> kad77: i believe you are being short sighted. im not even going to talk about IPv6, but about the side effects (i.e. stability, testing) that someone trying to add whatever feature brings to the network stack[04:33:56] <kad77> meianoite: My bandwisth is $36. :D work is a different matter[04:34:33] <_hugo> kad77: and of course if the people in charge of picking the SoC projects thought it was worthwhile, it was for a reason[04:34:33] <kad77> hugo: yes, side effects, I agree that is a benefit.[04:34:51] <_hugo> so i would suggest you to refrain from such comments unless you can properly justify them :-)[04:35:17] <kad77> yeah, Google bought hundreds of millions of dollars of IPv6 addresses ... the most of anyone on the planet[04:35:24] <kad77> no surprise they picked it[04:35:40] <_hugo> kad77: who picked it were the admins of Haiku, not google.[04:36:15] <umccullough_work> if Google intends to move forward with IPv6 as seriously as they move with their other projects - then IPv6 could become very useful very soon ;)[04:36:18] <kad77> and?[04:36:29] * meianoite feels like the king of "parse errors before $token" today[04:36:54] <_hugo> kad77: and i would expect you to respect the decisions of the project admins and developers[04:37:36] <kad77> hugo: you have been very confrontation with me every time I've spoken with you... I'm a little tired of it.[04:37:38] <umccullough_work> but seriously, complaining about what is more important to work on for an OSS project is mostly just trolling unless you're one of the project leaders[04:38:04] <kad77> discussing != complaining[04:38:07] <_hugo> kad77: it seems you take harsh words against points related to this project too easily[04:38:50] <kad77> hugo, you haven't addressed my points, you have made personal insinuations[04:38:58] <kad77> "and i would expect you to respect the decisions of the project admins and developers"[04:39:18] <kad77> I was a psychology and engineering major[04:40:00] <_hugo> it was you that categorized the IPv6 project as "icing on a non-existent cake", which to me seems to disregard the opinion of the people which actually are behind the project and doing the work[04:40:08] <umccullough_work> kad77, it's really just a matter of courtesy I think - you generally don't walk up to people and simply tell them that you don't agree with what they're doing and you think they should do something else instead[04:41:17] <kad77> hugo: that isn't disregarding opinions I haven't seen stated. Its pragmatism. Sorry you didn't like the analogy[04:41:48] <_hugo> kad77: the moment the project was chosen, it is an expressed opinion.[04:42:02] <_hugo> anyway, no point pursuing this discussion. :-)[04:42:36] <kad77> I'm just learning where feedback is acceptable. Apparently, their is an established ruling class, and the comments of the non-blessed are, well, frowned upon[04:42:45] <kad77> yeah, guess not[04:42:58] <ddew|bofh> martyrdom doesn't become you ;)[04:43:18] <_hugo> if there is an established ruling class, mind you im not part of it. like umccullough, its a matter of courtesy, which you lacked.[04:43:21] <meianoite> kad77: http://code.google.com/soc/haiku/appinfo.html?csaid=28B6ADD406564942, http://haiku-os.org/community/gsoc2007/ideas#network[04:43:26] <_hugo> *like umccullough mentioned[04:43:29] <meianoite> you see, IPv4 was NEVER there for the GSoC[04:43:41] <meianoite> and _hugo jumped in and accepted it as well[04:43:52] <meianoite> just bow down before him ;)[04:44:13] <meianoite> as I do, AAMOF.[04:44:21] <_hugo> it could be any other project besides this one. its just a matter of respecting people IMO[04:44:23] * meianoite cheerleads _hugo[04:44:32] <kad77> yep. the internet has too many e-penis issues. :D[04:44:50] <umccullough_work> i'm not even sure what that means...[04:45:06] <kad77> Its a long standing IRC thing[04:45:11] <umccullough_work> but i'm also not sure I want you to explain it ;)[04:45:24] <ddew|bofh> i'm just happy haiku got accepted to SoC at all, why is of less importance afaic[04:45:43] <kad77> yeah, that was pretty cool[04:46:01] <meianoite> the longest-standing *netiquette* thing is that you're not supposed to jump in and lambash at other people's work, especially when such work is both high quality and very desirable[04:46:22] <meianoite> despite your own criteria of priority/importance[04:46:55] <meianoite> and I meant lambast, not lambash, which is not even a word[04:46:56] <ddew|bofh> haiku imo is a way more "worthy" applicant to SoC than for example LG3D was[04:47:21] <kad77> listen, crtizing extending the network stack to IPv^ when the rest of it needs work is not a violation of netiquette[04:47:30] <kad77> no way, sorry[04:47:47] <meianoite> depends on your posture[04:48:01] <meianoite> how words are laid[04:48:11] <kad77> I won't be "shamed" into not expressing opinions by hugo or anyone, especially when I made them honestly and openly[04:48:20] <kad77> nobody is trashing anyone[04:48:38] <meianoite> how careful you are to state you're intrigued about how decisions were made, instead of jumping in and saying they were wrong[04:49:01] <kad77> I've discussed them earlier[04:49:34] <meianoite> it could well be because someone is working on IPv4 behind the doors, perhaps even sponsored by some big company[04:49:42] <meianoite> who'd rather remain anonymous[04:49:45] <meianoite> who knows[04:49:55] <kad77> being PC is not a strong point, not a desired one for me. I can speak management-mush when consulting for businesses[04:49:56] <meianoite> just be thankful for what we got so far[04:50:26] <meianoite> there's a WORLD of difference between PC and politeness[04:50:52] <meianoite> galaxies, even.[04:50:58] <umccullough_work> I think more importantly is that after the first time, it does become needless chatter and distraction that isn't going to actually make a difference ;)[04:51:11] <kad77> alright, sorry if I was rude. *apologizes*[04:51:19] * meianoite claps[04:51:26] <meianoite> now, here, let's everyone have a BIG hug ;)[04:51:27] <ddew|bofh> heh[04:51:38] <meianoite> group hug!!!!!!!![04:51:45] * meianoite []s[04:51:46] * umccullough_work backs away from meianoite[04:51:51] * kad77 leaves to take a shower.[04:51:58] <meianoite> o_O[04:52:00] *** kad77 is now known as kad77|bbl[04:52:09] <meianoite> anyone even watched that "Free Hugs" video?[04:52:15] <meianoite> you should know better by now, people ;)[04:52:18] <umccullough_work> sounds dreadful[04:52:56] <meianoite> umccullough actually it's pretty shocking to learn how people behave these days. they ran away from the "free hugger" like he's got the plague or something[04:53:11] <meianoite> otoh, Virgina Tech. so it's not really a surprise =P[04:53:25] <ddew|bofh> *rimshot*[04:54:29] <kad77|bbl> I left because the banter in this channel was giving me a headache. Your hug was fine, I was a dead head. bye now[05:02:56] *** stargater has quit IRC[05:17:45] *** phrizek has joined #haiku[05:18:02] *** umccullough_work has quit IRC[05:18:04] *** umccullough_ has joined #haiku[05:18:10] *** umccullough_ is now known as umccullough_work[05:28:19] *** ul1984_ has quit IRC[05:28:33] *** knoedel has joined #haiku[05:31:22] <Jin> umccullough: way to get on OSNews' front page :P[05:31:34] <umccullough_work> Jin, ;)[05:32:10] <Jin> I saw that during my comtech class and was like "HEH"[05:32:11] <geist> good job umccullough_work[05:33:33] <Jin> I need to find a way to get on IRC at school...[05:33:37] <Jin> proxies anyone?[05:34:07] <umccullough_work> not the first time i've been osnews'd - except last time it was indirect (a link to my flickr page)[05:36:50] <_hugo> geist: what was the issue with libroot again? is that the memcpy in the arch .S isn't visible?[05:37:20] <geist> bout to fix it[05:37:26] <_hugo> oh, great :-)[05:37:29] <geist> need to set a 'function' attribute on the symbol[05:37:40] <meianoite> 0xbaadf00d[05:37:51] <geist> i've never seen that make any difference, but apparently the runtime loader checks symbol types when it patches up the binary[05:37:53] <meianoite> loads of fun at uninitialized pointers here[05:38:11] <geist> but my linux box at home just crapped out[05:38:17] <umccullough_work> yay![05:38:20] <geist> fscking the drives right now, it'll be back up in a jiff[05:38:29] <geist> it's been doing this off an on the last few weeks[05:38:36] <geist> time to start taking it apart and seeing what's wrong[05:38:39] <umccullough_work> is that the Via box?[05:38:55] <geist> no, it's a P4 I've had being my linux box for 3 or 4 years now[05:38:58] <geist> it's generally been rock solid[05:39:10] <umccullough_work> maybe some dust buildup ;)[05:39:19] <geist> yeah, that's why I'm putting off looking at it[05:39:27] <geist> it's deep within a pile of hardware in the closet[05:39:34] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20731 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (TCPEndpoint.cpp TCPEndpoint.h): reorganized some of the TCP logic so we have common init paths for receive and send.[05:39:41] <umccullough_work> geist, remember i used to complain about that PII350 that wouldn't boot until it warmed up?[05:39:42] <geist> it's the thing everything is piled on top of[05:39:58] <Jin> so it's a paperweight linux box :P[05:40:14] <umccullough_work> turned out that blowing off the board, memory, and processor with compressed air fixed that problem...[05:41:18] <geist> i ran a pretty good stress test on it the other day[05:41:27] <geist> it always ends up in some strange state where some binaries work, some dont[05:41:34] <umccullough_work> yuck[05:41:44] <geist> in this case I was able to ssh into it, but most of the binaries wouldn't run (/bin/df not found, etc)[05:41:59] <geist> couldn't even shut down, couldn't run /sbin/shutdown[05:42:12] <geist> but the file system appears to be completely okay[05:42:16] <geist> never finds any errors[05:42:17] <_hugo> hmm :-)[05:42:22] <_hugo> memory then?[05:42:26] <geist> so it's like the kernel has crapped itself out[05:42:34] <geist> I ran memtest on it the other day for like 24 hours. no problem[05:42:46] <_hugo> eheh, poltergeist[05:42:53] <umccullough_work> lol[05:43:04] <geist> there's a new kernel out there, maybe I should build that. could just be a bad kernel[05:43:07] <umccullough_work> oh shit, i gotta go[05:43:08] <umccullough_work> bye[05:43:10] *** umccullough_work has quit IRC[05:43:10] <geist> think it's 2.6.19-r5 right now[05:43:33] <_hugo> geist: its still strange if the kernel was working good and all of a sudden starts crapping out :-)[05:43:36] <Jin> geist: gentoo?[05:43:40] <geist> yes[05:43:43] <Jin> I'm running a 2.6.19-rt kernel atm[05:43:46] <Jin> rock solid[05:43:59] <Jin> r5*[05:44:05] <geist> _hugo: yeah, but I may have rebuilt it recently. lemme see[05:44:17] <geist> Linux version 2.6.19-gentoo-r5 (root@four) (gcc version 4.1.1 (Gentoo 4.1.1-r3)) #1 Mon Feb 26 20:36:41 PST 2007[05:44:28] <geist> well, that was quite a whiel ago, and I've only seen problems in the last week or so[05:44:37] *** ul1984 has joined #haiku[05:44:43] <geist> so that's probably not the culprit. and I've never had a bad kernel build[05:44:48] <_hugo> :-)[05:44:49] <geist> it's generally pretty catastrophic[05:44:52] <_hugo> yeah[05:45:10] *** ul1984 has quit IRC[05:45:47] <_hugo> i find it strange it isnt trashing the filesystem too, if the inodes/node cache are borked in mem so it cant get a path/load/whatever a bin, it would eventually flush those broken bits back to disk[05:46:17] <geist> right[05:46:28] <geist> so i dunno, but hardware is always suspect first[05:46:33] <geist> so I need to take the box out and clean it[05:46:49] <_hugo> i hate handling hardware :-)[05:47:08] <geist> if it keeps acting up I'll stick this core2 board in[05:47:11] <geist> it's much much faster anyway[05:47:15] <_hugo> core2, woohoo[05:47:21] <geist> i have more working boards than boxes by about 2:1[05:47:24] <_hugo> intel cores are great[05:47:39] <geist> yeah, I grabbed this core 2 board a month ago or so to test haiku on it[05:47:53] <geist> but I've kind of given up for a while. it blows up really badly[05:47:58] <_hugo> eheh[05:48:01] <geist> and i think it may be IDE problems, it generates all sorts of crap[05:48:19] <geist> which i have zero interest in debugging. i'd rather debug simpler problems on the ol P3[05:48:30] <_hugo> makes sense[05:48:47] <_hugo> geist: did you read the SATA announcement?[05:48:51] <_hugo> haiku related that is[05:49:00] <geist> yup[05:49:11] <_hugo> eventually we should have decent sata support :-)[05:50:13] <geist> oh hey, I just got a nice net stack crash[05:50:27] <_hugo> while?[05:50:42] <_hugo> and which revision :-0[05:50:43] <geist> just fired up netpositive, started to load a page[05:50:44] <_hugo> ups, :-)[05:50:52] <geist> PANIC: recursive_lock 0x90a1fc1c unlocked by non-holder thread![05:50:58] <_hugo> ah, thats been fixed[05:50:59] <geist> 80265e08 (+ 48) 800280b1 <kernel>:recursive_lock_unlock + 0x0029[05:50:59] <geist> 80265e38 (+ 160) 8022f5a4 </boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp>:tcp_receive_data__FP10net_buffer + 0x045c[05:51:03] <geist> 80265ed8 (+ 112) 80228251 </boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/ipv4>:ipv4_receive_data__FP10net_buffer + 0x02e5[05:51:07] <geist> 80265f48 (+ 48) 8020fa1d </boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/network/stack>:domain_receive_adapter__FPvP10net_buffer + 0x0025[05:51:09] <_hugo> i was actually going to talk to you about that[05:51:10] <geist> 80265f78 (+ 96) 8020db3a </boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/network/stack>:device_reader_thread__FPv + 0x0166[05:51:13] <geist> 80265fd8 (+ 32) 800348cf <kernel>:_create_kernel_thread_kentry + 0x001b[05:51:14] <geist> yeah, it's probably source as of 18 hours ago or so[05:51:21] <_hugo> i fixed that during the afternoon[05:51:27] <geist> syncing[05:51:56] <_hugo> geist: i was wondering if recursive_lock_unlock should be less panic()able if the lock is gone[05:52:14] <geist> if it's gone? as in it's been destroyed?[05:52:16] <_hugo> yep[05:52:23] <geist> uhh, that's absolutely invalid[05:52:30] <geist> like, the data has been freed at that point[05:52:35] *** ChrisHJW has joined #haiku[05:52:35] <_hugo> yeah, i know[05:52:45] <geist> so the answer is no :)[05:53:04] <_hugo> yes, it actually makes sense to be strict here, nevermind[05:53:04] <geist> you're calling a method on a destroyed object, essentially[05:53:10] <_hugo> i was thinking about the benaphore, which isnt as strict[05:53:21] <_hugo> but we should probably have a debug version of benaphore[05:53:24] <geist> though it probably should to[05:53:25] <_hugo> which is as strict as that[05:53:38] <geist> same reasons. it's an object, if it's been destroyed it's totally invalid[05:53:51] <geist> but i didn't write that benaphore impl, so I didn't make it as strict as i generally do[05:53:59] <_hugo> right, nevermind, my reasoning was another :-) i was thinking from the benaphore side[05:54:19] <geist> I'm just about to poke into that stuff anyway. gonna make the rw_lock much more debug friendly[05:54:30] <geist> need to track down a complicated crash in the vm[05:54:41] <_hugo> the "page still has mappings" issue?[05:54:49] <geist> no, this is actually a deadlock[05:54:52] <_hugo> oh[05:55:04] <geist> the process ends up stuck in the kernel forever. can't kill it[05:55:15] <geist> and it appears to be around a rw_lock in the VM[05:55:30] <geist> it's almost as if someone acquired with write and released with read, or something[05:55:32] <_hugo> is it reproducible?[05:55:39] <geist> sort of[05:55:48] <geist> like, messing around a lot causes it, sometimes[05:55:54] <_hugo> i see[05:55:59] <geist> yesterday I got it by stracing the Chart demo[05:56:08] <geist> and then stopping chart[05:56:19] <geist> both processes ended up getting wedged[05:56:24] <_hugo> ugh[05:57:03] <geist> so i'm gonna add a bunch of tracing stuff to the rw_locks (threads that are holding for read, write, and make sure it releases with the same value, and then maybe a short little log[05:57:20] <geist> probably will do the same to recursive lock and mutex, though those are much simpler[05:58:10] <geist> i'd like to get more and more code moving away from using semaphores directly[05:58:18] <geist> and try to use mutexes, benaphores, rw_locks, etc[05:58:39] <_hugo> i mostly only use semaphores as wait queues[05:58:45] <geist> so that later on it might be easier to make those first class citizens in the kernel, and more efficient kernel implementations (semaphores are pretty heavy)[05:59:03] <geist> benaphores attempt to avoid that[05:59:05] <_hugo> and benaphores/recursive locks/etc in the rest of the cases[05:59:22] <_hugo> right, but i really want a wait queue :-)[05:59:35] <geist> that'd be easy, but it'd be a little harder to fit into the beos model[05:59:53] <geist> in other kernels I've written since then (for work and hobby stuff) I've followed that model[06:00:08] <geist> in the recent little embedded kernel I hacked on, the wait_queue is the lowest level primitive[06:00:12] <geist> and other stuff is built around it[06:00:19] <_hugo> makes sense to me[06:00:27] <geist> yeah, and you can create one directly if you want[06:00:35] <_hugo> i would use that :-)[06:00:37] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC[06:01:12] <_hugo> my semaphores are created with count 0, and i mostly use RELEASE_IF_WAITING, RELEASE_ALL, etc[06:01:13] <geist> i can hack an implementation in haiku for you if you want. just tell me the semantics you want[06:02:05] <geist> ugh, yeah I hate those 'extentions'[06:02:30] <_hugo> what i require is a wait primitive that is interruptible (B_CAN_INTERRUPT) and may have an absolute or relative timeout[06:02:32] <geist> they extend an already overused primitive, and I think it's not really even safe. I think there are edge cases, but I haven't fully thought them through[06:02:47] <_hugo> and then signal primitives, one and all[06:02:57] <_hugo> signal/wake[06:03:35] <geist> right. what about a 'pulse'[06:03:40] <geist> ie, wake all, but go back to a signalled state[06:04:23] <_hugo> hm, dont have an use case that would fit that i believe[06:04:42] <geist> i've found that to be useful as well[06:04:55] <geist> basicaly lets you collect up a bunch of threads and release them all at once and go back to collecting them[06:05:23] <_hugo> yeah, kind of rendezvous?[06:06:01] <_hugo> i dont have a particular need for it. the use cases im thinking about are network related and we just need to wait and signal, thats about it[06:06:06] <geist> yah[06:06:11] <geist> it's a pain to implement with semaphores[06:06:19] <geist> can be done, inefficiently[06:06:22] <_hugo> yeah, i would expect so[06:07:03] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[06:07:23] <geist> yeah, like I thought the RELEASE_ALL semantics are broken[06:07:38] <geist> i distinctly remember asking someone at Be whe I worked there why they hadn't implemented that feature[06:07:42] <geist> and it was because it's broken[06:08:31] <_hugo> oh[06:09:09] <geist> it looks like this implementation *only* works if everyone acquires with a count of one[06:09:22] <geist> otherwise it sort of partially releases the semaphore, enough to get the count to zero[06:09:46] *** the_webers_inc has quit IRC[06:09:55] <geist> and anyway, it basically makes the assumption that the thread acquiring is going to release with precisely the same amount as it acquired with[06:10:00] <_hugo> im using it only in one place[06:10:03] <geist> actually, it's all sorts of weird[06:10:23] <_hugo> but its changeable[06:11:04] <geist> it would completely destroy a rw_lock if you used it[06:11:39] <_hugo> nah, where im using it im still using the same create_sem(0, ...) and acquire(1)[06:11:56] <geist> though i guess it's basically for one case, and in that case it accomplishes something you can otherwise do[06:11:59] *** ChrisHJW has quit IRC[06:12:00] <geist> can't[06:12:28] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[06:13:43] <geist> well, just hit the 'page still has mappings' bug[06:13:44] <geist> PANIC: remove page 0x91968670 from cache 0x90a901c0: page still has mappings![06:13:51] <_hugo> :-)[06:13:57] <geist> do you get that one pretty often?[06:14:00] <_hugo> yep[06:14:20] <geist> has it always been there?[06:14:33] <geist> or did it start showing up recently?[06:14:47] <_hugo> i started noting pretty soon after i got write access[06:14:54] <_hugo> so ~2 weeks ago[06:15:09] <_hugo> i think Ingo commited some VM/file cache stuff[06:15:15] <_hugo> or Axel[06:15:18] <_hugo> don't remember[06:15:30] <geist> yeah, though it may have just been him adding the panic[06:15:43] <_hugo> but could have be there before and i hadn't noticed[06:15:49] <_hugo> s/be/been/[06:19:45] <CIA-17> geist * r20732 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/posix/string/arch/x86/arch_string.S:[06:19:45] <CIA-17> set the function attribute on the asm memcpy.[06:19:45] <CIA-17> This should fix the loader problem some folks were seeing on beos binaries.[06:20:18] <_hugo> yay :-)[06:21:27] <Yez> anyone know someplace I can find a Haiku build of Vision and Firefox?[06:22:17] <geist> hmm, someone built them?[06:22:22] <geist> I've just been using the ones off of beosmax[06:22:23] <mmadia> nope.[06:22:34] <mmadia> well, definitely not ff.[06:22:35] <_hugo> Yez: get vision from bebits, it works[06:22:43] <Yez> ok[06:22:52] <Yez> FF?[06:23:05] * geist lets him figure that out out[06:23:06] <mmadia> fire fox.[06:23:07] <_hugo> firefox is currently not working as far as i know[06:23:17] <mmadia> sorry geist : )[06:23:24] <_hugo> plonk :-)[06:23:25] <geist> i had it working the other day, until hugo went in and messed up the net stack[06:23:33] <Yez> ah[06:24:14] <_hugo> oy :-D[06:24:16] <_hugo> geist: really?[06:24:32] * JonathanThompson detects some debugging going on, hopefully more than the bugging part of software development :)[06:25:01] <_hugo> i think geist is just messing with my naive mind[06:25:27] <JonathanThompson> _hugo, everyone needs a hobby away from their hobby and profession :P[06:25:41] <_hugo> :-)[06:25:54] <_hugo> my hobby is walking in my house and looking at the sun[06:25:57] <_hugo> directly[06:25:58] <JonathanThompson> And after all, a mind that's intact is a terrible opportunity to waste :PPP[06:26:14] <_hugo> i also collect dust[06:26:34] <JonathanThompson> Sitting too still fotr too long? :)[06:26:40] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: indeed[06:26:59] * JonathanThompson suggests _hugo get up and walk around before his underwear rots into his crevices[06:27:06] <_hugo> oh my :-)[06:27:14] <_hugo> i usually get up before that point[06:27:22] * JonathanThompson wonders how many times he hasn't[06:27:32] <_hugo> none so far, but we never know[06:27:35] * JonathanThompson goes back to 24[06:27:54] <geist> hmm, yoiu know, I wonder why the mga driver doesn't pick up my millenium II[06:28:27] <geist> or if it did, it really sucks :)[06:30:00] * _hugo uses vesa, zippy[06:32:26] <geist> hmm, actually it may be using the mga driver[06:32:28] <geist> it's kind of hard to tell[06:33:09] * JonathanThompson just barely upgraded his box from a Millenium 1 last year :)[06:33:36] <JonathanThompson> Hey geist, did you guys track down the deadlock in the VM I saw mentioned earlier?[06:33:46] <geist> no, which deadlock is this?[06:34:02] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps I was skimming too quickly.[06:34:12] <geist> you saw mentioned. oh yeah[06:34:15] <geist> trying to repro it[06:34:30] <JonathanThompson> That should prove nearly impossible :([06:35:29] <geist> yeah but I'm sure I'll find someone else in the process[06:35:45] <JonathanThompson> Do you think it might be easier to draw a locking diagram to analyze how things work?[06:35:59] <geist> maybe[06:36:26] * JonathanThompson goes back to 24[06:36:31] <JonathanThompson> (temporariliy)[06:39:14] *** mmadia has quit IRC[06:41:43] <geist> well, it turns out it does use the mga driver, it's just not *that* much faster than just using vesa[06:41:49] <geist> it's slightly accellerated[06:42:06] <_hugo> ah[06:54:27] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[06:58:47] *** kb7sqi has quit IRC[06:59:09] *** kad77|bbl is now known as kad77[07:00:48] *** kb7sqi has joined #haiku[07:06:48] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[07:11:26] <Teknomancer> hi kr1stof[07:12:04] *** stargater has joined #haiku[07:12:27] <kad77> hey geist, I was asking earlier in channel ... would you forsee any big hurdles building haiku with Intel's ICC 9 compiler? I'm thinking of trying to tweeze out any hidden bugs/warnings/etc ...[07:13:41] <stargater> moin[07:16:34] <kr1stof> hi :-D[07:19:55] <meianoite> you know kad77, I was considering just that earlier today[07:20:02] <meianoite> putting Haiku thru other compiler suites[07:20:15] <kad77> I think it would be informative[07:20:43] <meianoite> not to mention the quality of code output by ICC9[07:22:44] *** kad77_ has joined #haiku[07:22:54] *** kad77 has quit IRC[07:22:57] *** kad77_ is now known as kad77[07:28:29] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[07:29:45] *** Yez has quit IRC[07:39:20] *** Thom_Holwerda has joined #haiku[07:39:36] <CIA-17> bonefish * r20733 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/registrar/ (AppInfoList.cpp AppInfoList.h ShutdownProcess.cpp):[07:39:36] <CIA-17> Fixed incorrect use of the sort() function. It expects a "less than"[07:39:36] <CIA-17> compare function with bool return value, not a -1/0/1 returning[07:39:36] <CIA-17> compare function. Fixes bug #1158 (registrar crash on shutdown).[07:48:19] *** thewolf has joined #haiku[07:51:03] *** mats has quit IRC[07:52:21] <meianoite> 'nite, folks[07:52:50] <Thom_Holwerda> night[07:52:57] <Thom_Holwerda> its just morning here ;)[07:53:12] <meianoite> the joys of timezones :)[07:53:27] *** meianoite has quit IRC[07:53:30] <umccullough> hi Thom_Holwerda, sorry i wasn't around earlier ;)[07:53:42] <Thom_Holwerda> umccullough: no problem[07:54:09] <umccullough> I thank you for not posting a direct link to my (still down) server ;)[07:54:19] <Thom_Holwerda> heh that would've been funny :P[07:54:20] <umccullough> i might have it back up in a bit[07:54:29] <umccullough> i'm on 144kbps line :([07:54:30] <Thom_Holwerda> ok, cool[07:54:35] <Thom_Holwerda> heh[07:55:13] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20734 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (TCPEndpoint.cpp TCPEndpoint.h): implemented TCP's slow start and congestion avoidance.[07:55:30] <_hugo> aye, 7am already[07:55:31] <thewolf> How can I express my awe without sounding corny? :/[07:56:26] <umccullough> well, i guess that's one way ;)[07:56:31] <thewolf> :P[07:56:34] <JonathanThompson> It's Thom_Holwerda, in the bitstream![07:57:00] <Thom_Holwerda> hi ;)[07:57:03] <umccullough> _hugo, do you know the status of Haiku's BONE compatibility?[07:57:08] <thewolf> Just curious, how much longer than 12 minutes did the system run?[07:57:20] <umccullough> thewolf, it ran for hours actually[07:57:26] <JonathanThompson> Depends on whether it had traffic or not :)[07:57:28] <_hugo> umccullough: not really, what are you looking at?[07:57:43] <umccullough> _hugo, just wondering if all the BONE APIs are implemented or not...[07:58:05] <_hugo> we are only worrying about API compatibility for drivers[07:58:07] <umccullough> i seem to recall having problems with BONE versions of some software previously, wasn't sure if that was fixed yet[07:58:10] <_hugo> the rest is new[07:58:18] <umccullough> mm...[07:58:27] <_hugo> and of course standard API (BSD sockets, etc)[07:58:56] <umccullough> ok[07:59:07] <_hugo> umccullough: i would expect BONE software to use normal stuff vs. workarounds in plain net_server versions[07:59:29] <umccullough> i know the APIs are there (no missing symbols) - but they didn't seem to completely work before[07:59:52] <_hugo> umccullough: if you have any pointers at what methods in particular maybe i can help[07:59:54] <umccullough> libbind and libsocket I believe[08:00:02] <umccullough> _hugo, i'll look into it more[08:00:14] <_hugo> i think those are links to libnetwork now, would need to check[08:00:27] <umccullough> yeah, i think you're right[08:00:52] <_hugo> and our resolver and bsd socket api are good enough i believe. should implement everything a bone app requires[08:00:53] <umccullough> with special logic to detect on load[08:00:58] <_hugo> yep[08:01:20] <umccullough> ok, well maybe I can dig up some apps to try[08:01:36] <_hugo> umccullough: always better to work with concrete examples :-)[08:01:56] <umccullough> yes, preferrably something small ;)[08:02:13] <_hugo> umccullough: i also looked into lighttpd and it should be trivial to port, i just didn't want to include it in the tree at this point[08:02:23] <umccullough> understandable[08:02:35] <umccullough> reminds me...[08:02:46] <umccullough> oh... nevermind[08:03:00] <_hugo> hm, seems the current revision is broken. /me looks deeper[08:03:35] <umccullough> RobinHood is OSS I belive, btw - and the rhdaemon is separate[08:04:05] <_hugo> umccullough: thats nice to hear actually. considering there is a "frontend" poorman in the tree[08:04:28] <umccullough> good point ;)[08:04:41] <umccullough> RobinHood uses apache-like configuration files[08:04:59] <umccullough> well, maybe not... i'll have to look again[08:05:03] <_hugo> :-)[08:05:27] <umccullough> so, did geist bust the build?[08:06:12] <_hugo> well, the build is ok, its that it is no longer fully booting in either vmware or qemu[08:06:25] <_hugo> hangs before launching tracker it seems[08:06:51] <umccullough> ingo's registrar change?[08:07:00] <_hugo> possibly, but it seems harmless[08:07:34] <umccullough> i'm building 20733 now[08:07:56] <_hugo> it seems the boot is hanged while waiting for input_server[08:08:42] <umccullough> that sounds like the problem that was reported the other night[08:08:47] <_hugo> yeo[08:08:49] <_hugo> *yep[08:09:11] <thewolf> hmmr, is it possible to download the "Happy Easter Edition" vmware image without using the torrent? No seeders...[08:09:45] <umccullough> huh?[08:09:59] <umccullough> what is the "happy easter edition"?[08:10:00] <_hugo> thewolf: any particular reason to do so? you are better off with a newer revision anyway[08:10:19] * umccullough must have missed some news[08:10:29] <thewolf> well, ok, I'll download a nightly[08:10:43] <umccullough> Haiku improves daily ;)[08:10:48] <_hugo> umccullough: i think it was a release of a vmware image in the vmware site or something like that[08:10:52] <_hugo> i remember seeing it mentioned[08:10:53] <umccullough> well, except for geist's change last night[08:11:04] <umccullough> oh, soomething sikosis did then i guess[08:11:07] <Thom_Holwerda> happy easter edition...?[08:11:35] <thewolf> It's here: http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/627[08:11:56] <kokito> it's a build made by Sikosis; not sure what it includes.[08:12:26] <umccullough> yeah, says Sikosis was the submitter[08:12:38] <umccullough> probably nothing more than a basic image ;)[08:12:51] <kokito> http://blog.sikosis.com/?p=23[08:13:28] <kokito> <quote>This was created from Build 20610 and has been tested as working. Networking is still very basic, so don’t expect too much just yet.</quote?[08:14:08] <umccullough> heh, almost everything that has happened since 20610 was networking updates ;)[08:14:16] <_hugo> geist: around?[08:14:52] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[08:15:53] <Thom_Holwerda> umccullough: i guess people really want to install the latest haiku[08:15:58] <Thom_Holwerda> and then go online on irc and brag about it[08:16:04] <umccullough> lol[08:16:51] <umccullough> Thom_Holwerda, hugo chatted with me while he was using BeShare a couple weeks ago[08:16:58] <umccullough> in Haiku[08:17:01] <Thom_Holwerda> nice[08:17:09] <umccullough> i haven't had much luck with it yet myself...[08:17:26] <_hugo> umccullough: which is strange :-) everytime i try it here it works[08:17:39] <umccullough> _hugo, i'll try it again with this build...[08:17:48] <_hugo> umccullough: if it doesnt work please send me a network capture[08:17:55] <umccullough> I think it's this funky rtl8139 driver that's giving me fits honestly[08:18:04] <_hugo> ah, possibly[08:18:05] <umccullough> since i'm running on real hardware[08:18:18] <Thom_Holwerda> umccullough: real men dont virtualise :)[08:18:20] <miqlas> Hello![08:18:23] <umccullough> heh[08:18:28] <umccullough> hi miqlas :D[08:18:43] *** Master199 has joined #haiku[08:19:08] * _hugo boots haiku hundreds of times a day, would be painful on real hardware[08:19:19] <umccullough> i should grab the 3com driver from R5 and use it... i've got TONS of 3com cards[08:19:20] <Thom_Holwerda> _hugo: im j/k ;)[08:19:59] <_hugo> umccullough: should work, besides giving link notification, eheh[08:20:07] <_hugo> s/notification/notifications/[08:20:08] <umccullough> better yet, i should port a 3com driver ;)[08:20:13] *** miqlas has quit IRC[08:20:14] <_hugo> that would be neat[08:20:16] <umccullough> i keep threatening to do that, but for some reason i don't[08:20:33] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[08:20:36] <umccullough> the if_xl from freebsd might be a good candidate[08:20:43] <_hugo> speaking of drivers, who was the person the other day which had problems with networking in parallels?[08:20:52] <_hugo> i might have fixed his/hers issue with the ne2k driver[08:20:59] <umccullough> don't remember... but I saw your etherpci commit[08:21:14] <umccullough> i can check back in the logs[08:21:27] <_hugo> don't think you need to bother right now[08:21:42] <_hugo> i'll just try to have someone test it in parallels[08:21:56] * _hugo pokes geist[08:22:19] <_hugo> unrelated :>[08:22:32] <umccullough> brlcad, jeremy_c[08:22:36] <umccullough> maybe nother[08:22:51] <_hugo> ah, thanks. haven't seen them around though[08:23:53] <umccullough> it was jeremy_c[08:24:21] <geist> _hugo: yes?[08:24:45] <_hugo> geist: for some reason, VMs don't like your memcpy[08:25:00] <umccullough> ha! he broke'd it![08:25:03] <_hugo> geist: since your last change i can no longer fully boot[08:25:25] <geist> the last last change?[08:25:29] <_hugo> yep[08:25:39] <geist> that doesn't make any sense whatsoever[08:25:43] <_hugo> :-)[08:25:59] <_hugo> but thats whats happening, i re-checked[08:26:04] <geist> do a clean build[08:26:18] <geist> how does it fail?[08:26:24] * umccullough is waiting for the "works on my machine"[08:26:39] <_hugo> geist: during the boot, we 'waitfor' the input_server to publish the input devices[08:26:40] <geist> well seriously, the last change *cannot* have broken it[08:26:49] <_hugo> it no longer does so so we hang in that waitfor forever[08:27:14] <_hugo> geist: i can go back and forward with that change for it to stop working/work[08:27:25] <geist> wow[08:27:29] <geist> that's pretty screwed up[08:27:30] <_hugo> im doing a clean build now[08:27:58] <_hugo> that would be work/stop working btw, relative to back/forward[08:28:11] <miqlas> re[08:29:26] <umccullough> Thom_Holwerda, http://binarychicken.com:575/[08:29:40] <umccullough> my DHCP died agian[08:29:44] <Thom_Holwerda> umccullough: cool :)[08:29:51] <geist> yay, refreshtastic![08:29:56] <umccullough> _hugo, seems like my DHCP has been dying a lot lately since i've been mssing with Haiku[08:30:06] <_hugo> umccullough: dhcp in haiku or?[08:30:20] <umccullough> dhcp server on my IDSL router![08:30:23] <umccullough> it's just ... kaput![08:30:25] <_hugo> oh[08:30:30] <_hugo> sounds faulty then[08:30:30] <geist> there, put wget in a loop[08:30:30] <_hugo> eheh[08:30:30] <umccullough> gotta reboot the router to fix it[08:30:42] <umccullough> geist, cizra did that to me the other day :P[08:30:45] <_hugo> umccullough: our dhcp requests are pretty sane[08:31:20] <_hugo> of course they can be very well breaking your dhcp server, but i believe they shouldn't[08:31:23] <geist> umccullough: how does that extra 20Mhz feel?[08:31:36] <geist> does that really push it over the edge?[08:31:37] <umccullough> geist, warmer ;)[08:31:58] <umccullough> i had it OC'd to 670, but it was... freezing a lot ;)[08:32:37] <stargater> umccullough, is haikus robin hut user :-)[08:32:38] <umccullough> oh shit, i gotta fix the rev number[08:32:48] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[08:33:02] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[08:33:04] <geist> the wget loop is still going[08:33:17] <_hugo> a friend of mines uses a core2 ~2.2ghz OC'ed to 3ghz normally. without extra cooling[08:33:19] <stargater> moin Begasus and Jixt[08:33:20] <umccullough> wtf?[08:33:20] <Teknomancer> hi Jixt, Begasus[08:33:25] <umccullough> StyledEdit crashed[08:33:30] <_hugo> im not sure it will survive for long but he says it works well[08:33:31] <Thom_Holwerda> Hi Begasus[08:33:32] <geist> ruh roh[08:33:35] <geist> it's gonna go down![08:33:37] <Begasus> g'morning peeps[08:33:41] <Begasus> hey Thom_Holwerda![08:33:47] <Begasus> long time no see ;)[08:33:53] <_hugo> umccullough: it's the VM! i'm sure[08:33:54] * _hugo ducks[08:33:57] <Thom_Holwerda> i was just about to type that :)[08:33:58] <umccullough> geist, some error in malloc[08:34:10] <geist> woot[08:34:15] <Begasus> how have you been doing?[08:34:22] <Thom_Holwerda> fine, fine, thank you[08:34:23] <Thom_Holwerda> you?[08:34:29] <stargater> i have no errors , with the new vm stuffs[08:34:33] <Begasus> could have been better ;)[08:34:43] <Begasus> health is still a bit of a prob attm[08:34:46] <geist> awww, finally stopped[08:34:52] <umccullough> i just got a page...[08:34:53] <Thom_Holwerda> Begasus: that sucks[08:35:00] <umccullough> still working here![08:35:00] <_hugo> umccullough: kdl?[08:35:06] <_hugo> ah[08:35:07] <umccullough> no, it's good[08:35:12] <geist> ah there we go.[08:35:17] <geist> yeah that socket muyst have locked[08:35:18] <Begasus> yeah ... nothing to be done there Thom_Holwerda ... we'll get through it well enough ;)[08:35:23] <geist> stopping and starting fixed it[08:35:26] <Thom_Holwerda> ok[08:35:46] <umccullough> geist, how quickly is it looping?[08:35:50] <geist> not very fast[08:35:53] <geist> maybe once a second[08:35:54] <umccullough> i don't have the RHConsole running so I can't see[08:36:04] <umccullough> brb[08:36:04] <geist> and it always has some problem with partial content[08:36:14] <umccullough> yeah, cizra was complaining about that too[08:36:16] <geist> and then it connects a second time and fetches the second half[08:36:17] <_hugo> i think thats RobinHood's problem[08:36:18] <umccullough> it ends up getting the second half[08:36:23] <umccullough> probably[08:36:25] <_hugo> i don't get that partial data issue with other apps[08:37:18] <geist> would be interesting with something bigger[08:37:21] <geist> a picture or something[08:37:27] <geist> does it always get cut off at the very end of the transfer[08:37:53] <_hugo> our TCP doesn't like thin pipes very well yet. although with slow start/congestion avoidance that i've commited a bit ago it should be better[08:38:04] <_hugo> s/very well/very much/[08:38:12] <umccullough> geist, i had the 200kb screenshot there yesterday[08:38:19] <umccullough> only loaded about half of it and hung[08:38:21] <geist> think it could be something about the way poorman shuts down the sockets?[08:38:23] <umccullough> then kdl'd[08:38:33] <geist> ie, maybe it does something odd[08:38:35] <umccullough> it's not poorman[08:38:43] <geist> or RH then[08:39:03] <_hugo> well, it cant really bork TCP[08:39:12] <geist> unless it does something that tgriggers a bug[08:39:12] <umccullough> let me add the screenshot to the html again and we'll watch it burn[08:39:16] <_hugo> yes[08:39:21] <geist> like it sends the FIN before the last chunk of data[08:39:34] <_hugo> geist: it should never send a FIN before consuming the whole buffer[08:39:45] <_hugo> should as in, thats how it is implemented[08:39:59] <_hugo> geist: rebuilding fixed my image btw[08:40:28] <umccullough> seems like it's holding up pretty well this time[08:40:37] <_hugo> umccullough: latest revision?[08:40:38] <geist> _hugo: yeah figured that might[08:40:42] <umccullough> 733[08:40:44] <geist> i think the build system doesn't fully relink everything[08:40:45] <umccullough> 20733[08:40:56] <geist> hmm, the tcpdump trace from here looks a little funny[08:41:01] <_hugo> umccullough: ah, 734 is better[08:41:14] <umccullough> _hugo, i need to reboot anyway since I can't launch StyledEdit for some reason[08:41:19] <umccullough> can you try that from your side?[08:41:39] <_hugo> geist: how funny?[08:41:42] <kokito> umccullough, what was the url?[08:41:53] <umccullough> http://binarychicken.com:575[08:41:56] <geist> http://tkgeisel.com/stuff/RHtrace.txt[08:42:08] <geist> so it complains that it only gets 289 bytes[08:42:14] *** slaine_ has joined #haiku[08:42:35] *** slaine_ has quit IRC[08:42:41] <geist> 249 actually[08:43:10] <_hugo> geist: the fin-setup is funny indeed, P and F together[08:43:15] <geist> yeah, with data[08:43:28] <geist> linux is obviously not accepting that last piece of 188 bytes[08:43:40] *** slaine_ has joined #haiku[08:43:45] <geist> and the final ack, *after* the last FIN[08:43:52] <geist> which is probably what causes linux to generate the RST[08:44:08] <_hugo> sending data with the FIN is not incorrect, the problem is the first FIN, which doesn't seem right[08:44:25] <_hugo> what causes the RST is probably the second FIN[08:44:37] <geist> exactly[08:44:46] <_hugo> the ACK after is ok if its acking linux's FIN[08:44:49] <_hugo> ill look into it[08:44:54] <geist> oh that's true[08:45:09] <geist> it's been a few years since i was this deep into the TCP state machine[08:45:26] <_hugo> eheh, minutes here, so :-P[08:45:34] <_hugo> im in advantage[08:45:43] <geist> i forgot the shutdown sequence exactly[08:45:57] <geist> i thought it was just two FINs, then it's wait[08:46:11] <geist> didn't know you were supposed to ack the fin[08:46:22] <_hugo> FIN, ACK/FIN, ACK[08:46:36] <_hugo> yeah, as the FIN is an implicit byte in the stream[08:46:46] <geist> yeah that's right. SYN and FIN use a byte[08:46:48] <_hugo> and it is so we can check for clean exit[08:47:25] <geist> okay, so it's that extraneous FIN with data after the first one that's bad[08:47:42] *** Jixt has quit IRC[08:47:57] <geist> an interesting question would be if it's legal to send another fin (if you thought they didn't ack yours and you timed out) with *more* data than the first one[08:48:05] <_hugo> i would say that probably it should not have flagged FIN in the first place, since it possibly still have data in the queue[08:48:20] <geist> right, seems like you want to dump the queue and only at the end FIN it[08:48:25] * geist looks at his stack[08:48:26] <_hugo> the FIN is the last byte in the stream, so there is no more data after the FIN[08:48:42] <geist> right, but if they dont ack it you're free to retransmit[08:48:44] <_hugo> as in if you are sending a FIN you should not accept more data in the queue[08:48:48] <_hugo> right[08:48:59] <geist> in which case it's technically possible you retransmit with more data in the queue[08:49:06] <geist> but I guess that'd be dumb and broken[08:49:23] <_hugo> a send() fails at that point[08:49:46] <umccullough> geist, still hammering on it?[08:49:48] * kokito is on beshare from Haiku[08:49:53] <geist> umccullough: no[08:49:54] <umccullough> i'm gonna reboot[08:50:14] <_hugo> kokito: ah, i knew that it worked :-P[08:50:17] <stargater> kokito, wow, looks the network in haiku is running :-)[08:50:47] <kokito> _hugo, and queries are working this time. :)[08:50:58] <geist> hmm, looks like my tcp stack may have the same proble[08:51:07] <_hugo> kokito: great[08:51:08] <geist> it seems to immediately send a packet with FIN on it[08:51:21] <geist> that or I'm misreading it[08:51:26] <stargater> kokito, screenshots please :-)[08:51:48] * umccullough expects another OSnews posting with BeShare screenies ;)[08:51:55] <umccullough> j/k[08:52:01] <_hugo> geist: there is an old condition here that should flag out FIN, but it seems in this case isnt working[08:52:50] <umccullough> beshare is definitely beos newsworthy though - since it's been such a pinnacle of the BeOS community for years[08:52:57] <Thom_Holwerda> huh what screenshots of beshare running on haiku?[08:52:58] <Thom_Holwerda> ;)[08:54:37] <umccullough> _hugo, i'm grabbing 20734[08:54:54] <geist> wow, this stack is written completely differently than what i expected[08:55:08] <_hugo> geist: ours?[08:55:11] <geist> yeah[08:55:18] <_hugo> eheh, what is different?[08:55:26] <geist> well, it being in C++ for one thing[08:55:29] *** pyCube has quit IRC[08:55:31] <_hugo> umccullough: nice :-) testing my last commit would be helpful[08:55:39] <_hugo> geist: very much C++ yes[08:56:18] <_hugo> well, only in the inside, the published APIs are all C[08:56:34] <stargater> bbl[08:56:45] <geist> hmm, the state machine doesn't exactly match[08:57:08] <geist> well, wait, I guess it does. the names are just different[08:57:33] <_hugo> geist: yes, unfortunely they didnt keep FIN1/FIN2 etc, i had to search too when first working on it[08:57:56] <geist> anyway, I see the code that tries to mask FIN until the end of the queue[08:58:05] <geist> not sure why it isn't working[08:58:26] <geist> though that being said if the last segment actually was present in the queue at the time it sent the FIN it should have just sent a larger packet[08:58:35] <_hugo> yeah, one of the problems is that we should set FIN inside the loop, not masking it out outside[08:58:39] <geist> which makes me suspect the last 100 bytes or so got in *after* the FIN[08:59:24] <_hugo> geist: im pretty sure they didnt[08:59:41] <_hugo> geist: SendData() returns EPIPE on FINISH_SENT which is sent im Shutdown()[08:59:45] <_hugo> s/im/in/[08:59:48] <_hugo> which is called by Close()[08:59:56] <geist> what about a race?[09:00:24] <_hugo> its all locked[09:00:24] <_hugo> properly synchronized[09:00:29] <_hugo> im guessing the fin masking condition just isnt too clever[09:00:42] *** phrizek has quit IRC[09:01:36] * umccullough goes to bounce the IDSL router[09:01:45] <geist> funny thing is it put the PUSH flag on[09:01:49] *** thewolf has quit IRC[09:01:52] <geist> which looks like is set if that packet completes the queue[09:02:24] <_hugo> P shouldnt be set on F though, as F implies P[09:02:50] <geist> probably, but the logic I'm looking at in the code doesn't care about FIN[09:02:53] *** miller[] has joined #haiku[09:02:58] <geist> it just sets P if it compeltes the queue[09:03:07] <_hugo> yep[09:03:09] <geist> which is the same set of circumstances that you'd expect for FIN[09:03:13] <_hugo> im changing that to clear P if setting F[09:03:28] <geist> so it sure looks to me that the queue was actually only that big at that exact time[09:03:58] *** umccullough has quit IRC[09:04:10] *** umccullough has joined #haiku[09:04:17] <geist> also, the timestamp on the FP packet is the same as linux's last FIN[09:04:24] <geist> so it looks lik eit was in response to *that*[09:04:54] *** mazon is now known as Mazon[09:05:02] <_hugo> possibly was[09:05:23] <geist> well, actually yeah it was. it was acking linux's FIN, and it somehow decided to piggyback another FIN and more data[09:06:08] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[09:07:20] * _hugo curses about his harddrive[09:07:40] <umccullough> _hugo, actually, i think Haiku just isn't getting anything from DHCP any more![09:08:01] <umccullough> worked on 20682 i'm pretty certain[09:08:04] <_hugo> umccullough: those bits arent touched for some revisions now[09:08:13] <umccullough> funny...[09:08:30] <umccullough> it got a funky default address[09:08:38] <_hugo> 192.168.0.X?[09:08:42] <umccullough> yeah[09:08:49] <umccullough> my lan is 192.168.254.x[09:08:54] <_hugo> failed to obtain one from DHCP then[09:08:57] <_hugo> check if its dead[09:08:59] <_hugo> eheh[09:09:06] <umccullough> let me renew from this box...[09:09:11] *** realrbman has joined #haiku[09:09:24] <umccullough> yep, it's alive...[09:09:26] <umccullough> odd[09:09:33] <umccullough> i'll have to try from vmware[09:10:26] <_hugo> my FIN change seems good, ill do a bit more of testing and commit[09:11:14] <umccullough> i gotta go to bed soon :([09:11:20] <geist> hmm, look at the bottom of _Receive()[09:11:21] <kokito> stargater > http://www.myhaiku.org/haiku/2007-04-16_beshare at haiku-20734 dot jpg[09:11:30] <geist> TCPEndpoint::_Receive[09:11:34] <umccullough> _hugo, did you speed up TCP?[09:11:46] <umccullough> the server seems a lot more responsive[09:11:49] <geist> not sure I like that little 'RFC 793 states that we must send an ACK to FIN' bit[09:11:53] <_hugo> umccullough: a bit yes[09:12:06] <umccullough> geist, run that wget loop again...[09:12:23] <Thom_Holwerda> kokito: how sturdy is your server? :)[09:12:37] <kokito> oh oh...[09:12:44] <Thom_Holwerda> ;)[09:12:45] <umccullough> actually, probably doesn't matter since the latency is high[09:12:50] <_hugo> geist: thats for it to Send immediatly instead of delay[09:12:53] <umccullough> kokito, quick, imageshack![09:12:54] <kokito> it's a shared host account Thom_Holwerda[09:13:01] <Thom_Holwerda> kokito: ok, ill refrain then[09:13:09] <Thom_Holwerda> or, i could upload it to osn's server[09:13:12] <geist> _hugo: yeah, but that's all within a block after it gets a FIN[09:13:24] <kokito> Thom_Holwerda, feel free to put the screenshot somewhere else.[09:13:33] <geist> if the caller of _Receive follows the advice, it'll send another FIN afterwards[09:13:35] <_hugo> geist: all those cases are correct[09:13:44] <Thom_Holwerda> kokito: great, one momet--[09:14:08] <_hugo> geist: the thing is, it will receive the FIN, try to send whatever it has queued, and if its in a state which implies FIN, set it[09:14:27] <_hugo> but we need to check for an extra condition which is if there is data in the queue[09:14:37] <geist> _hugo: what if you're in FIN_SENT?[09:14:50] <geist> you've already sent yours, they're sending their FIN back to you (with your FIN's ACK)[09:14:51] <_hugo> geist: you go to CLOSING[09:15:05] <geist> well, TIME_WAIT[09:15:44] <_hugo> geist: i see what you mean, you are saying that if we have sent FIN, receive ACK/FIN, instead of sending ACK we send ACK/FIN again[09:15:46] <umccullough> _hugo, refreshing the page in FF here on my LAN now takes a fraction of a second!...that's a huge improvement[09:15:56] <geist> exactly, which is precisely what happened in that trace[09:16:14] <geist> it looks like we assume a simultaneous close or something[09:16:23] <_hugo> geist: im trying to fix another problem, which is sending FIN (i.e. in FINISH_SENT) when there is still data to be sent[09:16:41] <_hugo> probably CLOSING shouldn't set FIN[09:16:46] <_hugo> umccullough: good to hear[09:16:52] <kokito> bbl[09:17:33] <geist> in my stack I specifically checked for FIN,ACK, and FIN|ACK in that situation[09:17:35] <geist> and treated them differently[09:17:44] <geist> just a FIN -> simultaneous close[09:17:54] <geist> just an ACK -> FIN_WAIT_2 (half open socket I guess)[09:18:06] <geist> FIN_ACK -> send an ack and go to TIME_WAIT[09:18:31] <geist> but i followed the standard state machine pretty closely, which details this[09:18:38] <Thom_Holwerda> kokito: http://www4.osnews.com/story/17710/Screenshots_of_Haiku_Serving_Webpage[09:19:12] <kokito> cool Thom_Holwerda :)[09:19:25] <_hugo> geist: when we receive ACK/FIN, ACK is handled first, which moves our FINISH_SENT to FINISH_ACKed, the handling FIN moves it to TIME_WAIT[09:19:26] <_hugo> it is correct[09:19:39] <Thom_Holwerda> as good an escuse as any to finally install an ftp client on this Cube :)[09:19:44] <geist> ah, that may be the case[09:20:37] <_hugo> geist: if we only get FIN, in FINISH_SENT it goes to CLOSING (simultaneous close)[09:20:48] <_hugo> which still triggers a FIN, and this might be wrong[09:21:10] <geist> though the _Receive() call still returns an action of IMMEDIATE_ACKNOWLEDGE[09:21:15] <geist> even if it moves to TIME_WAIT[09:21:26] <geist> is that correct? I dont know what the caller does with that return code[09:21:47] <_hugo> the caller just triggers the send routine[09:21:54] <_hugo> but that is incorrect yes, it should return DROP[09:23:33] <umccullough> ok, well i'm gonna go to bed - i expect someone to kill my webserver by morning ;)[09:24:09] <geist> same, gotta go to sleep[09:24:13] <_hugo> have fun guys[09:24:28] <geist> forgot how much fun network stuff was. _hugo gets all the fun :)[09:24:29] <umccullough> you too _hugo :)[09:24:36] * _hugo giggles[09:24:46] <umccullough> that's almost disturbing ;)[09:24:49] <_hugo> eheh[09:25:43] <_hugo> geist: btw, maybe FIN/PSH is not wrong after all, google.com returns it. but probably redundant.[09:25:59] <kokito> time to get some sleep. good night folks.[09:26:03] <_hugo> see you kokito[09:26:23] <Thom_Holwerda> sleep well kokito[09:26:57] *** kokito has quit IRC[09:27:24] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[09:28:20] *** avkig has quit IRC[09:32:40] *** Sloar has quit IRC[09:36:42] *** avkig has joined #haiku[09:37:34] *** myob has joined #haiku[09:48:09] <stargater> oh osnews update :-)[10:02:53] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20735 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/TCPEndpoint.cpp: TCP: only set FIN after the send queue has been exausted and we are in a state that requires it.[10:03:40] *** NeonLicht has quit IRC[10:05:11] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[10:05:45] *** miqlas has quit IRC[10:17:28] *** weltschmerz has quit IRC[10:19:58] *** miller[] has left #haiku[10:21:25] <raph_ael> hello[10:26:56] <Thom_Holwerda> hello[10:31:32] *** ul1984 has joined #haiku[10:36:40] *** Begasus has quit IRC[10:37:04] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[10:38:55] <myob> did anyone take note of the links mmu_man put up for his haiku-building-capable zeta devkit?[10:39:13] <myob> I'm getting header problems with my i-thought-was-working setup[11:00:31] <Thom_Holwerda> this is an interesting question:[11:00:32] <Thom_Holwerda> http://www4.osnews.com/permalink?231517[11:00:47] <Thom_Holwerda> Since Netserver kind of sucks, Be created BONE. Will this new netstack be something like BONE (Unix-like) with a netserver compatible API?[11:00:47] <Thom_Holwerda> Or is Haiku R1 only BONE compatible?[11:00:52] <Thom_Holwerda> does anybody know?[11:01:21] *** llama233 has joined #haiku[11:05:08] *** GreyGhost has joined #haiku[11:05:20] *** NeonLicht has joined #haiku[11:06:19] <stargater> hmm i think have haiku have net_server and bone compatible api and littel bit BSD funktions , but i not 100% sure , ask axelD in the MailingList[11:07:49] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[11:08:06] <stargater> hi Jixt[11:08:15] <Jixt> hi stargater[11:08:28] <stargater> Jixt, do you work on usb stack in haiku ?[11:09:26] <stargater> oh its late, i mast go to work .... cu[11:09:32] *** stargater has quit IRC[11:14:16] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[11:18:01] <Jixt> hi Teknomancer[11:18:08] <Teknomancer> hi Jixt[11:18:26] *** GreyGhost has quit IRC[11:18:35] *** slaad has joined #haiku[11:20:26] <Jixt> Already found some work Teknomancer ?[11:20:51] <Teknomancer> Jixt not yet but on it...[11:23:11] *** Begasus is now known as Begasus_bbl[11:24:06] <Jixt> So, now you use your free time to develop on Haiku :p[11:30:06] <Teknomancer> haha yeah first i need to download it and install it[11:30:09] <Teknomancer> need partitions for that[11:33:32] *** Pulko_Mandy has joined #haiku[11:40:47] <Jixt> vmware is also very handy[11:41:07] <myob> Thom_Holwerda: BONE was net_sever compatible - in theory[11:41:14] <myob> Haiku is effectively the same[11:41:17] *** cmlenz has joined #haiku[11:41:28] <Thom_Holwerda> myob: ok, thanks[11:42:22] <myob> might be more compatible to both net_server and the BSD norms, though[11:42:28] <myob> as well as complete - multicast, etc[11:45:26] *** dtravis7 has joined #haiku[11:45:46] *** dtravis7 has left #haiku[11:46:20] <myob> BONE was very incomplete at release[11:46:25] <myob> well, leak[11:49:29] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[11:50:05] *** Pulko__Mandy has joined #haiku[11:52:39] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[11:52:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton[11:53:48] <JBurton> hi all[11:53:57] <Teknomancer> hey JBurton[11:56:31] <JBurton> yo Teknomancer[11:57:23] <Teknomancer> ugh people on the haiku orkut community join thinking its the 2 lines poems thingy and start posting them .. pfffft[11:57:35] <JBurton> eheh[11:59:13] <Thom_Holwerda> Teknomancer: bwahaha[12:00:09] <Teknomancer> BGA's the owner :D[12:01:48] <myob> tell them not-nicely that its not then start poking them[12:05:34] *** Pulko_Mandy has quit IRC[12:05:35] *** JBurton has quit IRC[12:05:44] *** gotaku has joined #haiku[12:05:56] <CIA-17> jackburton * r20736 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/ServerPicture.cpp: Call RemoveToken() in the destructor[12:06:40] *** whoopsbob has joined #haiku[12:08:11] *** bobwhoops has quit IRC[12:11:59] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[12:12:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton[12:16:14] *** slaad has quit IRC[12:18:13] <llama233> Anyone know what happened to the gnash port?[12:18:25] <llama233> I haven't heard anything since last year...[12:29:27] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[12:30:26] <[Beta]> mmlr didnt release the port, it was still unfinished.[12:30:33] <myob> mmlr was doing it, and he's stil around, so I doubt its just died[12:32:04] <llama233> yeah, I remember it was sort-of working but no sound[12:32:24] <llama233> I miss youtube when I'm in beos![12:32:39] <llama233> yes, I do know how sad that sounds ;-)[12:33:08] <[Beta]> Gnash still doesn't fully do YouTube just yet :p[12:36:10] <gotaku> I always thought gnash was an... interesting name.[12:37:05] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[12:37:37] <myob> swfdec does![12:37:40] <myob> llama233: keepvid + VLC[12:37:49] <myob> youtube done, erm, badly. But working.[12:38:27] *** Sloar has joined #haiku[12:42:37] <Thom_Holwerda> wow keepvid is nice[12:42:42] <Thom_Holwerda> didnt know that existed[12:42:50] <Thom_Holwerda> makes just a little too much sense not to have around[12:43:53] <gotaku> Does the build system currently have support for making a boot cd?[12:45:09] <llama233> cheers myob! That *might* just keep me going :-)[12:46:33] <[Beta]> gotaku, no[12:46:53] <gotaku> Would that be a good thing I could work on? ;)[12:47:49] <[Beta]> Any contributions are welcome, but i'd think they want to keep the bootable CDs off the radar atm :)[12:48:49] <gotaku> Why?[12:49:40] <[Beta]> So people dont preview Haiku, and find it just doesnt work for them and never come back[12:50:25] <[Beta]> You could make a bug ticket, and attach a patch; then its up to them to merge it if they want.[12:50:52] <gotaku> I just think it would be useful for developers who use Linux.[12:51:19] <myob> Thom_Holwerda: its just one of a few hundred sites that does that I think, but I've found it the best[12:51:50] <gotaku> Just because the build system would support boot cds doesn't mean the Haiku project has to release them.[13:00:07] *** jixt_ has joined #haiku[13:09:17] <myob> but it'd mean many people would release them[13:09:25] <myob> its quite easy to make a boot CD[13:11:12] *** gotaku has quit IRC[13:12:02] *** axeld has joined #Haiku[13:12:02] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o axeld[13:22:24] *** Manette has joined #haiku[13:26:46] *** jixt_ has quit IRC[13:27:07] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[13:27:07] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[13:27:55] *** Sil2100 has joined #haiku[13:28:05] <Sil2100> Hi[13:30:58] *** myob is now known as myob|lunch[13:34:40] *** Manette has quit IRC[13:44:56] *** Eji has joined #haiku[13:49:02] <kad77> morning[13:49:13] <Eji> hi you, hi all :-)[13:49:48] <kad77> do we have a page on haiku-os regarding chipsets that are supported?[13:51:19] *** llama233 has quit IRC[13:56:55] <Ingenu> no[13:57:42] <Eji> don't think so, at alpha stage there is no point... better to run it in VMware or Qemu no ?[13:59:12] <kad77> oh, I do. I think the point is to have a public list. It tends to make people aware of what needs to be done, rather than them asking all the time[14:00:42] <kad77> I only run in QEMU/vmware ... but a listing of chipsets from 2005 and later would be helpful, we could list in manufacturer is freindly (aka JMicron) or whther there is a GPL driver avail[14:01:03] <kad77> *if manufacturer[14:01:10] <Ingenu> open source[14:01:11] <Ingenu> :p[14:01:12] *** arikato has quit IRC[14:02:04] <kad77> indenu.. could you be more specific?[14:02:04] *** JBurton has quit IRC[14:14:28] <Ingenu> GPL != Open Source[14:22:53] *** arikato has joined #haiku[14:24:52] *** Yez has joined #Haiku[14:27:10] *** myob|lunch is now known as MYOB[14:28:45] *** Eji has quit IRC[14:36:04] <kad77> ingenu: yes, I agree. we need a catalog of what 'works' though, and at lest have a guideline of what needs replacing eventually[14:39:14] *** bga has joined #haiku[14:39:14] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o bga[14:53:53] <Thom_Holwerda> gotta love taking gambles[14:54:25] <Thom_Holwerda> needed usb audo soundcard for my apple cube (these things dont come with internal audio card or ports :s)[14:54:39] <Thom_Holwerda> so i just bought one no-brand os for 15E[14:54:45] <Thom_Holwerda> and it works on the mac :D[14:54:50] <Thom_Holwerda> pos*[14:55:18] <Thom_Holwerda> bbl[14:55:24] *** Thom_Holwerda has quit IRC[15:05:45] *** wkornewald has joined #haiku[15:08:39] *** wkornewald has quit IRC[15:13:04] *** jevin has quit IRC[15:18:37] *** Thom_Holwerda has joined #haiku[15:21:44] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[15:27:12] *** Sloar has quit IRC[15:38:50] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[15:38:56] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton[15:41:41] <MYOB> Thom_Holwerda: the Cube has no soundcar?[15:49:04] <Thom_Holwerda> MYOB: no[15:49:08] <Thom_Holwerda> it didnt[15:49:35] <Thom_Holwerda> it came with an external USB soundcard to which those sphere speaker were connected-- but connected in the apple way[15:49:40] <Thom_Holwerda> meaning, without using plugs[15:49:45] <Thom_Holwerda> they are connected directly[15:49:59] <Thom_Holwerda> the sphere speaker i have started to crackle and static[15:50:04] <Thom_Holwerda> so i needed a solution[15:50:45] <Thom_Holwerda> with the use of that el-cheapo usb card i can now connect my creative i-trigue set[15:50:59] <Thom_Holwerda> a releief compared to those really crappy harman kardon sphere speaker[15:51:00] <Thom_Holwerda> s[15:52:43] *** cizra has quit IRC[15:52:48] *** cizra has joined #haiku[15:54:43] *** guildencrantz has joined #haiku[15:55:13] <DeadYak> interesting, I never knew it had no built-in audio chipset[15:58:55] <MYOB> usb soundcards are EVIL[15:59:11] <MYOB> had to use one on my Fushitsu laptop until it burnt out and they wouldn't repalce it[15:59:14] <MYOB> (the LAPTOP) that is[15:59:38] <DeadYak> well, at least they're easily replacable :)[15:59:55] <DeadYak> I've had the connector on a built-in motherboard chipset go bad before, that's imo more evil :)[16:02:15] <Thom_Holwerda> its especially evil if you take the cube's newprice into consideration[16:02:18] <Thom_Holwerda> 1799E[16:05:48] *** jevin has joined #haiku[16:08:12] <DeadYak> ouch[16:08:19] <DeadYak> back in a bit, heading to work[16:11:23] *** absabs has joined #haiku[16:21:49] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[16:22:38] <[Katisu]> about time[16:22:57] <[Katisu]> http://content.techrepublic.com.com/2346-10877_11-61794-4.html[16:24:15] <[Katisu]> get more people addicted to the internet.[16:25:39] <MYOB> my laptop connector is "damaged" on my new toshiba but it still works, and tosh won't replace it because of that :/[16:25:50] <Ingenu> previoulsy the problem was to access the information, now that's solved, the new problem now is reliability of the said informations...[16:28:09] <[Katisu]> Ingenu, that's a problem that has been around for a long time, and will probably be around for a longer time[16:29:56] <CIA-17> axeld * r20737 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/interface/Window.cpp:[16:29:56] <CIA-17> Small fix for _StealMouseMessage(): only if "feed focus" is "false", the message[16:29:56] <CIA-17> can't be used.[16:35:01] <StylusEater_Work> thom_holwerda: does anyone still sell used cubes?[16:35:18] <MYOB> StylusEater_Work: ebay...[16:35:23] <umccullough> hmm... had to restart rhdaemon[16:35:42] <umccullough> i need a hitcounter on that page ;)[16:35:58] <StylusEater_Work> MYOB: gar[16:35:59] *** slaine_ has quit IRC[16:36:55] <MYOB> StylusEater_Work: possibly otherworldcomputing or similar[16:36:59] <MYOB> its too old to be in shops[16:37:02] <umccullough> anyone recommend a good 3rd party hit counter that doesn't suck?[16:37:49] * StylusEater_Work doesn't ebay... :-/[16:38:26] <StylusEater_Work> thx MYOB...will check otherworld[16:39:04] *** Begasus_bbl is now known as Begasus[16:39:40] <Begasus> umccullough ... webalizer?[16:39:51] <Begasus> http://www.mrunix.net/webalizer/[16:40:01] <umccullough> thx Begasus[16:40:04] *** kb7sqi has quit IRC[16:40:08] <Begasus> http://www.bebug.be/_stats/[16:40:11] <umccullough> wait...download?[16:40:17] <Begasus> that's what we use at BeBUG[16:40:21] <SiCuTDeUx> the umccullough[16:40:27] <umccullough> i need something that is entirely off-site 3rd party[16:40:30] <CIA-17> axeld * r20738 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/app/WindowLayer.cpp: We should not pass the mouse down event to the window in case it has B_AVOID_FOCUS set; found by Stefano as described in bug #670 comment 5.[16:40:31] <Begasus> poke Jixt about the details ;)[16:40:31] <umccullough> like onestat[16:40:54] <SiCuTDeUx> umccullough, hi![16:41:01] <umccullough> hi SiCuTDeUx :)[16:41:04] *** Jixt has quit IRC[16:41:09] <Begasus> using bravenet myself[16:41:16] *** tigerdog has joined #haiku[16:41:22] <Begasus> hi tigerdog ;)[16:41:26] <umccullough> is statcounter good?[16:41:28] <tigerdog> hello Begasus[16:41:33] <umccullough> http://www.statcounter.com/[16:43:41] * DeadYak meeps[16:44:18] <Thom_Holwerda> StylusEater_Work: i dont know, i got mine from a friend[16:46:01] <StylusEater_Work> Thom_Holwerda: I read that in your blog... :-)[16:46:02] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[16:46:13] <Thom_Holwerda> heh ok[16:46:34] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[16:48:33] * StylusEater_Work promises he isn't a stalker...your post just rekindled fond memories of "the old cube"[16:51:09] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[16:52:12] *** Grackle has quit IRC[16:53:04] <umccullough> there we go... 3rd party stat counter :)[16:54:18] <kad77> umc: curious, which did you find?[16:54:43] <umccullough> which? - i used statcounter.com[16:54:53] <kad77> oh, it was good enough. k. :D[16:54:58] <umccullough> you can see it in action here: http://binarychicken.com:575/[16:55:08] <umccullough> i decided not to use a graphic counter[16:55:21] <umccullough> but it wouldn't matter since the image would be served from their site, not mine ;)[16:55:50] <kad77> it doesn't seem to work. :/[16:56:20] <umccullough> no? works here...[16:56:23] <kad77> I click the "(Added Stats Counter) " link and get a connection error[16:56:34] <umccullough> oh, that's not my site ;)[16:56:47] <umccullough> try it again, it's slow[16:56:52] <kad77> k[16:57:04] <umccullough> that's just a link to statcounter's site[16:57:23] <kad77> I wonder how acurate it can record stats if its timing out constantly :D[16:57:36] <umccullough> heh[16:57:43] <StylusEater_Work> umccullough: I get a rejected error[16:57:49] * kad77 tried 5 times[16:57:50] <umccullough> well, [Katisu] is sitting there refreshing my page to bump the hitcount up ;)[16:58:03] <StylusEater_Work> unauthorized port[16:58:12] <umccullough> StylusEater_Work, that's your firewall[16:58:13] *** JBurton has left #haiku[16:58:21] <umccullough> and there's no way i'm moving it to port 80 ;)[16:58:34] <StylusEater_Work> umccullough: could be...corporate intranet[16:58:39] <umccullough> StylusEater_Work, it is[16:58:41] <umccullough> very common[16:58:53] <umccullough> ok, i gotta go to work... bye![16:58:57] <kad77> l8r[16:58:58] *** StylusEater_Work has left #haiku[16:59:02] *** StylusEater_Work has joined #haiku[17:07:06] *** Jin__ has joined #Haiku[17:17:46] *** Sloar has joined #haiku[17:20:34] *** novaburst has joined #haiku[17:21:47] *** jevin has quit IRC[17:28:29] *** Jin has quit IRC[17:29:57] <StylusEater_Work> did ./ get slashdotted?[17:30:13] <StylusEater_Work> I mean /. whoops[17:30:35] <MYOB> no, its up[17:31:13] <MYOB> hrm, its subdomains aren't though[17:31:23] <MYOB> can access the frontpage[17:31:35] <StylusEater_Work> hrm[17:31:54] <ddew|bofh> o/[17:31:55] <Thom_Holwerda> not that i understand why you would want to read /. anyway, but thats a whole different matter ;)[17:32:28] <ddew|bofh> i've reached nirvana, that little p2 i found is a godsend[17:32:37] <MYOB> Thom_Holwerda: because you don't cover everything on osnews ;)_[17:32:59] <Thom_Holwerda> MYOB: im not very fond of /.'s content[17:33:14] <Thom_Holwerda> way too much focus on legal stuff and "your rights online" and that sort of nonsense[17:33:17] <Thom_Holwerda> but thats just me[17:33:17] <ddew|bofh> quad-booting BeOS R5, Exp/Dano, Zeta and Haiku :D[17:33:18] <StylusEater_Work> Thom_Holwerda: I agree your site is actually much butter...as far as "fresh" content[17:33:39] <StylusEater_Work> but /. seems to have more "monkeys" discussing things which makes for interesting reading[17:33:40] <MYOB> Thom_Holwerda: which is stuff I'm interested in[17:34:01] <Thom_Holwerda> StylusEater_Work: osnews is not my site :) i'm just the editor[17:34:03] <StylusEater_Work> I actually read theregister, then osnews then /.[17:34:07] <Thom_Holwerda> MYOB: perfectly fine :)[17:34:10] <Thom_Holwerda> to each his own[17:34:16] <StylusEater_Work> things usually filter from the register over...[17:34:21] <StylusEater_Work> must be a timezone thing[17:34:31] <Thom_Holwerda> el reg is nice[17:34:38] <Thom_Holwerda> like the humour at el reg and the inq[17:34:50] <ddew|bofh> osnews got fun newsitems, but the commenters are just rabid :)[17:34:57] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: yup[17:35:01] <ddew|bofh> as they are on digg, /. and so on[17:35:04] <Thom_Holwerda> not all that much we can do[17:35:14] <ddew|bofh> hey, it's a free world[17:35:29] <Thom_Holwerda> the whole mod system and reg. req. to comment made a huge difference, though[17:35:37] <Thom_Holwerda> but yeah, it's still crappy sometimes[17:35:42] <Thom_Holwerda> esp. in popular threads[17:35:55] <StylusEater_Work> Thom_Holwerda: and since we're on the topic of sites...[17:35:59] <StylusEater_Work> the new design...hrm[17:36:20] <Thom_Holwerda> StylusEater_Work: the good thing about v4 is[17:36:31] <Thom_Holwerda> its *completely* themeable with CSS alone[17:36:36] <DeadYak> my one problem with OSNews lately is it seems like too much of the slashdot crowd has moved in[17:36:39] <ddew|bofh> the only thing that "bothers" me really is the torrent of linux-news and less of alternative oses. but it's understandable as linux is the biggest one of them[17:36:47] <ddew|bofh> great haiku/beos coverage lately[17:36:56] <Thom_Holwerda> we got some completely different and new themes in the pipeline for v4[17:37:22] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: a few weeks ago i refocused on alt. content[17:37:24] <Thom_Holwerda> the problem is[17:37:36] <Thom_Holwerda> the OS world isnt as interesting anymore as it was 8-10 yrs ago[17:38:07] <StylusEater_Work> Thom_Holwerda: I understand[17:38:14] <ddew|bofh> Thom_Holwerda: i noticed the refocus and i agree on that the alt os "scene" has died off a bit in the last few years[17:38:38] <StylusEater_Work> time for a rename?[17:38:39] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: oh and i HATE the "what is this good for" posts[17:38:57] <Thom_Holwerda> straight way to get a full ban[17:39:05] <StylusEater_Work> it's interesting how /. has an intel focus center but not amd...totally off topic[17:39:07] <ddew|bofh> good call[17:39:27] <Thom_Holwerda> StylusEater_Work: no, a rename would make no sense[17:39:32] <Thom_Holwerda> we did change our tagline[17:39:38] <StylusEater_Work> Thom: gotchya[17:39:41] <Thom_Holwerda> kind of jokingly[17:39:45] <Thom_Holwerda> it was[17:39:52] <Thom_Holwerda> "exploring the future of computing"[17:39:58] <ddew|bofh> some items on the osnews front-page seem a bit odd though, like "How to intergrate ROX Desktop Into Ubuntu", that's not really newsworthy imo ;)[17:40:05] <Thom_Holwerda> on v4, it is: "NOT JUST operating system news"[17:40:15] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: yes it is, because ROX is REALLY cool[17:40:22] <Thom_Holwerda> alt. doesnt only mean alt. os[17:40:30] <Thom_Holwerda> it also meand alt. desktop env.[17:40:34] <Thom_Holwerda> means*[17:40:54] <MYOB> seems to be back up now..[17:41:02] <ddew|bofh> well it's not massive news, people have been doing that for ages[17:41:04] <Thom_Holwerda> im a bit tired of the kde and gnome news[17:41:08] <StylusEater_Work> MYOB: gotchya[17:41:15] <ddew|bofh> but again, just my opinion. it's not my site :)[17:41:24] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: input is always welcoem[17:41:29] <StylusEater_Work> no one is really innovating anymore...it's just seems to be window dressing in the CS world anymore[17:41:45] <Thom_Holwerda> StylusEater_Work: innovation wise[17:41:51] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku[17:41:53] <Thom_Holwerda> gnome and kde are pretty much dead in the water[17:41:56] <StylusEater_Work> Thom: not referring to your site[17:42:00] <ddew|bofh> i'm sticking with the underdogs, haiku and skyos :P[17:42:06] <StylusEater_Work> Thom: yes...kde4 will be nice[17:42:09] <Thom_Holwerda> kde4 might be slightly innovative here and there[17:42:12] <Thom_Holwerda> but nothing groundbreaking[17:42:13] <StylusEater_Work> but...there is nothing really "new"[17:42:18] <StylusEater_Work> exactly[17:42:31] <DeadYak> KDE4 is interesting on the back end[17:42:38] <DeadYak> on the front end side no one does anything interesting nowadays[17:42:39] <Thom_Holwerda> dot get me wrong, kde and gnome are REALLY good DEs[17:42:40] <StylusEater_Work> saigo is excited about it though...which is understandable since he's one of the leads[17:42:50] <Thom_Holwerda> on par, if not betterm than commercial counterparts[17:42:53] <ddew|bofh> i can live without groundbreaking if i can get stuff that actually works[17:42:56] <Thom_Holwerda> but i just dont see them doing anything excisting[17:43:00] <Thom_Holwerda> exciting*[17:43:05] <StylusEater_Work> yeah...but when do I get my nintendo virtual glove working as a tactile mouse for my OS?[17:43:18] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: i got osx for that[17:43:35] <tigerdog> pardon this interruption: I need help from a c++ guru in diagnosing a "friend class" problem with BeOS Firefos.[17:43:40] <tigerdog> can anyone help an old dog?[17:43:41] <ddew|bofh> it's a nice os, but still not quite what i want[17:43:47] <ddew|bofh> it's like 80% there[17:44:00] <ddew|bofh> and apple's attitude isn't exactly helping either[17:44:03] <tigerdog> s/Firefos/Firefox :)[17:44:04] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: i prefer beos too, but i just cannot use it as my day-to-day system anymore[17:44:12] <Thom_Holwerda> those days are long gone[17:44:17] <ddew|bofh> god no, that's unpossible :)[17:44:17] <Thom_Holwerda> yes, apple is one crap company[17:44:45] <ddew|bofh> crap company with great people working there[17:44:53] <Thom_Holwerda> some great mins indeed[17:44:57] <Thom_Holwerda> minds*[17:44:58] <ddew|bofh> the stuff that's come out of apple is genius[17:45:02] <Thom_Holwerda> just a tad bit too arrogant[17:45:03] <DeadYak> tigerdog: shoot[17:45:07] <StylusEater_Work> how is apple a crap company?[17:45:10] * ddew|bofh hugzors his eMac :)[17:45:21] <Thom_Holwerda> StylusEater_Work: try being a journalist[17:45:41] <StylusEater_Work> I concede that...but...I have my opnions about secrets[17:45:46] <tigerdog> DeadYak: error messages are:[17:45:49] <Thom_Holwerda> i have a review "contract" with them[17:45:52] <Thom_Holwerda> they let me use stuff[17:45:53] <tigerdog> DeadYak:[17:45:54] <tigerdog> xpcprivate.h:2263: `class nsAutoRefCnt nsXPCWrappedJS::mRefCnt' is protected[17:45:54] <tigerdog> xpcwrappedjs.cpp:83: within this context[17:46:00] <ddew|bofh> try being a person. their namecalling is getting really bothersome[17:46:05] <[Beta]> Apple would love to print their own newspaper..[17:46:19] <Thom_Holwerda> at one point, i wrote a positive review of the macbook pro but with some seriously negative connotations[17:46:22] <Thom_Holwerda> that pissed them off[17:46:24] <Thom_Holwerda> badly[17:46:32] <tigerdog> DeadYak: in the past, tqh has solved such issues by making a "friend class" entry.[17:46:43] <DeadYak> tigerdog: ah[17:46:46] <ddew|bofh> Thom_Holwerda: that's a crap company, that can't handle criticism[17:46:49] <tigerdog> DeadYak: but I'm not sure what class needs to befriend what other.[17:46:59] <Thom_Holwerda> normally, when you are negative about some company's products, they are actually very friendly and thankful[17:47:03] <DeadYak> tigerdog: which class is xpcwrappedjs.cpp:83 in?[17:47:05] <Thom_Holwerda> it helps them improve[17:47:10] <ddew|bofh> especially when it's coming from an apple fanboi ;)[17:47:45] <tigerdog> DeadYak: um...[17:48:08] <Thom_Holwerda> wow microsoft released a wmp plugin for firefox[17:48:29] <StylusEater_Work> huh?[17:48:33] <StylusEater_Work> silverlight Thom?[17:48:37] <Thom_Holwerda> no[17:48:40] <ddew|bofh> looks like ms is learning to play nice with other platforms[17:48:43] <Thom_Holwerda> windows media player plugin[17:48:47] <StylusEater_Work> no way[17:48:50] <[Beta]> Thom: for Windows ?[17:48:53] <Thom_Holwerda> yup[17:48:58] <[Beta]> how useful.[17:49:02] <Thom_Holwerda> let me read up, its in our submission queue[17:49:05] <StylusEater_Work> ok[17:49:39] <Thom_Holwerda> http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2007/04/16/windows-media-player-on-firefox.aspx[17:49:41] <StylusEater_Work> defeats the whole purpose behind OSS though[17:49:42] <Thom_Holwerda> there you go[17:50:08] <Thom_Holwerda> gotta try that on my vista laptop tonight[17:50:24] <[Beta]> Thom: been linked to http://www.freenationfoundation.org/?page_id=24 yet?[17:50:52] <StylusEater_Work> em...it works with firefox...not on linux though[17:50:53] <Thom_Holwerda> [Beta]: not by us, falls way out of our scope[17:52:15] <ddew|bofh> wish there was some relatively unbiased technews place around. closest thing i can think of arstechnica :([17:52:28] <Thom_Holwerda> ok, gotta put all my stuff back into my brand new shiney kitchen :D[17:52:29] <Thom_Holwerda> ttyl[17:53:24] <ddew|bofh> hf[18:00:16] *** Begasus is now known as Begasus_bbl[18:02:21] <ddew|bofh> me god, that was probably the most rude and uneducated comment to a thread i have ever seen :O[18:02:41] <ddew|bofh> "I wonder if they have the competence to make a secure netstack though..."[18:02:59] <ddew|bofh> wth, is he on crack?[18:04:32] <MYOB> and if they don't, is he offering to fix it?[18:05:25] <ddew|bofh> i don't doubt for a second that the networking kit in haiku will be successful[18:05:58] <ddew|bofh> it's written today, for todays and tomorrows technologies like ipv6 and so on[18:06:08] <ddew|bofh> that's a Good Thing(tm)[18:06:57] <ddew|bofh> it's going to be interesting to see the userspace compatability layer for netserver and bone though :)[18:07:17] <MYOB> multicast is what I care about[18:07:30] <ddew|bofh> multicast?[18:07:42] * ddew|bofh is completely oblivious to networking jargon[18:07:44] <MYOB> final thing crippling VLC (or whatever replaces it now that it won't GCC2)'s networking[18:07:53] <MYOB> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ip multicast I think[18:08:02] <MYOB> ip_multicast[18:08:05] <ddew|bofh> ah, like streaming media?[18:08:10] <MYOB> you get the picture of the url ;)[18:08:11] <MYOB> no[18:08:22] <MYOB> streaming media can be unicast or multicast[18:08:37] * ddew|bofh fires up wikipedia :P[18:08:38] <MYOB> unicast works - try streaming video off Ministryofsound.com to VLC on BeOS and it works, for instance[18:09:07] <geist> multicast is generally not something most folks clamor about[18:09:11] <ddew|bofh> so unicast==1 server, multicast==many servers?[18:09:24] <MYOB> geist: until RTSP doens't work fully ;)[18:09:31] <MYOB> ddew|bofh: not really...[18:09:57] <ddew|bofh> found the page on wikipedia now, i will educate myself :P[18:10:34] *** tigerdog has quit IRC[18:10:34] <CIA-17> laplace * r20739 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/showimage/ShowImageSettings.cpp: Applied patch from Jonas Sundstro"m to fix bug #1121.[18:10:44] <ddew|bofh> haven't paid much attention to it as i hardly ever watch online streams[18:11:55] <ddew|bofh> sweet, glad i read up on it. it's streaming in the way i ping brodcast to find out the ip's of my boxen :)[18:12:21] <MYOB> its not exclusively related to media streams (well, its almost exclusively used for...)[18:12:49] <geist> the apple bonjour stuff uses it[18:13:53] <MYOB> that might be why my attempt to port avahi failed :P[18:13:59] *** Pulko_Mandy has joined #haiku[18:14:00] <ddew|bofh> i recently switched my firewall over to pfsense and that adds the hostnames of the computers in the dhcp-pool to the dns[18:14:15] <geist> yeah, m0n0wall does that too[18:14:19] <ddew|bofh> haven't looked very hard into any other solutions since then :)[18:14:21] *** Pulko__Mandy has quit IRC[18:14:52] *** jevin has joined #haiku[18:15:14] <MYOB> isn't that part of recent versions of BIND and hence anything compatible?[18:15:19] <MYOB> automatic DNS updates[18:16:13] *** kokito has joined #haiku[18:16:36] <kokito> good morning folks[18:16:48] *** jevin has quit IRC[18:16:48] <ddew|bofh> moin[18:19:18] <ddew|bofh> hm, a mac mini would be a fairly great little desktop machine. wouldn't it?[18:19:23] <ddew|bofh> any experiences with it[18:19:26] <ddew|bofh> ?[18:19:37][18:19:47] <ddew|bofh> not many computers do ;)[18:19:59] <absabs> morning kokito[18:20:01] <MYOB> yeah, but the classics are always the best[18:20:18] <MYOB> (says the man using IRC 1989 style...)[18:20:32] <ddew|bofh> thinking of how hard it would be to up the ram and disk in it[18:20:55] <MYOB> hardest to open the case[18:20:56] <ddew|bofh> if it's anything like how insane the emac was to upgrade there's no way in hell i'm getting one[18:21:00] <kokito> hello absabs[18:21:22] *** MauriceK_ has joined #haiku[18:21:53] <ddew|bofh> thinking of getting one and chucking the dell in the closet as a file server[18:22:13] <ddew|bofh> i really like the mini's formafctor[18:22:19] <ddew|bofh> *form-factor[18:22:34] <MYOB> big x86 in cupbosrd = heat hell[18:22:43] <geist> which mini is it? ppc or x86?[18:22:58] <ddew|bofh> ii'd be getting a new one, so x86[18:23:01] <MYOB> mate of mine couldn't sleep at night when he had an old Dimension running as a (weak as bejaysus) CS:S server in his wardrobe[18:23:04] <MYOB> IN WINTER[18:23:12] <geist> as a file server they're so-so, you can only put so big a disk in it, since it's a laptop disk[18:23:15] <ddew|bofh> it's a core2duo, so it's fairly cool[18:23:17] <geist> though you can plug in firewire drives[18:23:20] <absabs> kokito:hehe[18:23:22] <ddew|bofh> cooler than my p2 firewall :)[18:23:37] <geist> but as a little linux box for general stuff they're fine[18:23:48] <geist> even theppc ones are good for that[18:23:56] <ddew|bofh> geist: the mini would be for a desktop machine, i'd have my current desktop as a file-server build-box[18:24:10] <MYOB> think its time to run here[18:24:13] <geist> ah, well it's pretty good for that too[18:24:22] <geist> though the drive speed isn't so fast. you gonna run OSX on it?[18:24:25] *** absabs has quit IRC[18:24:34] <geist> if so, you absolutely need to get at least a GB of ram in it[18:24:47] *** MYOB has quit IRC[18:24:58] <ddew|bofh> yeah, the difference when you up the ram is really noticable[18:25:12] <ddew|bofh> do they have one or two ramslots?[18:25:21] <geist> hmm, good question[18:25:33] <ddew|bofh> it's a tiny machine, so i'd expect 1[18:25:37] <geist> poke around the internet. I think the ppcs were a single slot but I'm thinking the x86s have 2[18:25:47] <ddew|bofh> hmm, cool[18:26:09] <geist> i actually have one of both, but I didn't upgrade the ram in the second one[18:26:11] *** procton has joined #haiku[18:26:16] <ddew|bofh> os x is even pickier than vista with the ram[18:26:50] <ddew|bofh> took 2GB to get tiger working properly on my old g5[18:28:05] *** jixt_ has joined #haiku[18:28:32] <geist> for kicks I recently stuffed linux on my ppc mini and got it running windowmaker[18:28:42] <geist> seems to do it pretty well, though firefox is slightly chunky[18:28:59] <ddew|bofh> fun :)[18:29:14] <ddew|bofh> i have an old g3 imac running slackware with wmaker[18:29:31] <ddew|bofh> wmaker seems like the wm of choice for lower end hardware[18:29:39] <geist> speaking of, I should figure out what I'm gonna do with mine[18:29:48] <geist> it's so cute, but I can't see myself using it ever[18:30:06] <ddew|bofh> thinking of selling it?[18:30:20] <geist> i guess, it's almost not worth anything[18:30:31] <ddew|bofh> i might be interested[18:30:39] <geist> where are you located?[18:30:41] <ddew|bofh> could be a fun little box to play around with :)[18:30:44] <ddew|bofh> .se[18:30:51] <geist> probably not worth the trouble[18:30:56] <geist> shipping it would cost a fortune[18:31:04] <ddew|bofh> ah, you're in the us?[18:31:07] <geist> yep[18:31:23] *** petterhj- has joined #haiku[18:31:33] <ddew|bofh> i guess i assumed you where european, seems like all the haiku-gurus are :)[18:31:45] <geist> yep. AMERICAN POWA[18:31:56] <geist> you gotta remember where it came from mofos[18:32:10] <ddew|bofh> haha[18:32:22] <DeadYak> rofl[18:32:36] <ddew|bofh> americans are europeans that got kicked out of europe for being too lame :P[18:32:51] <StylusEater_Work> ddew|bofh: that or the reverse is true[18:32:52] <geist> beats the aussies[18:32:53] <StylusEater_Work> :-)[18:32:57] *** petterhj has quit IRC[18:33:02] <ddew|bofh> haha[18:33:04] <geist> getting kicked out for being criminals[18:33:18] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[18:33:23] <geist> we were kicked out for being a bunch of religious nuts[18:33:26] <ddew|bofh> the whole of oz was a prison colony at some time, wasn't it?[18:33:43] <StylusEater_Work> part...[18:33:48] <StylusEater_Work> afaik[18:33:58] <ddew|bofh> pretty much the europe's "naughty corner" :P[18:35:20] <geist> or at least england's[18:35:20] <Thom_Holwerda> i didnt know id ever say this[18:35:21] <Thom_Holwerda> but[18:35:26] <Thom_Holwerda> my new kitchen is too big :([18:35:38] <Thom_Holwerda> lots of empty spaces :D[18:35:53] <ddew|bofh> empty space? i've heard of that[18:35:56] <geist> stop taking the garbage out and it'll fix itself in a few weeks[18:36:04] <Thom_Holwerda> heh[18:36:07] <ddew|bofh> it's where you can stack old gear, isn't it? ;)[18:36:46] <StylusEater_Work> that or leftover food... ;-)[18:37:21] <ddew|bofh> come to think of it, i should prolly sort out the mess in here. haven't seen the floor in years :P[18:38:07] <Sil2100> Floor? What's that?[18:38:15] <ddew|bofh> ixactly[18:38:25] <ddew|bofh> i think it's hardwood[18:38:31] <Sil2100> oh[18:38:35] <Thom_Holwerda> heh im obsessively clean and tidy[18:38:55] <Thom_Holwerda> my directory structure makes little kids cry[18:38:58] <Thom_Holwerda> ive seen it happen[18:39:00] *** MauriceK has quit IRC[18:39:05] <Thom_Holwerda> so structurised is it[18:39:10] <ddew|bofh> i should prolly get hold of an so again, that tends to keep me more organized[18:39:20] <Thom_Holwerda> so?[18:39:22] <ddew|bofh> anal retentive, eh? :)[18:39:27] <ddew|bofh> Significant Other[18:39:30] <Thom_Holwerda> ah ok[18:39:51] <Thom_Holwerda> when i have an 'so', my house is usually a bigger mess than when im alone[18:40:14] <ddew|bofh> house, aren't you like sub-20?[18:40:15] <StylusEater_Work> yeah...but what do you qualify as a "mess?"[18:40:23] <Thom_Holwerda> now, its all relative seeing as three grains of sand underneath the couch constitute as a "mess"[18:40:25] <Thom_Holwerda> im 22[18:40:35] <StylusEater_Work> ddew|bofh: so...I owned my first at 21[18:40:45] <ddew|bofh> shite, i'm 24 and still live in a run-down 1 room apartment :)[18:40:54] <Thom_Holwerda> its not actually mine, i rent an appartmant[18:41:07] <StylusEater_Work> or was it...23...crap I forget[18:41:14] <ddew|bofh> but then again, i'm retired. so the funding would be a problem[18:41:31] <StylusEater_Work> retired at 24?[18:41:40] <ddew|bofh> retired at 19 actually[18:41:48] <ddew|bofh> due to my disability[18:42:07] <ddew|bofh> someone decided it was a good idea to try and kill me, left me with some massive braindamage[18:42:26] <geist> ...[18:42:26] <geist> damn[18:42:36] <ddew|bofh> meh, that's life :)[18:42:40] <Thom_Holwerda> thats gotta like suck[18:42:41] <StylusEater_Work> dayyum[18:42:42] <ddew|bofh> no point in dwelling on it[18:42:55] <StylusEater_Work> sorry to hear[18:43:05] <StylusEater_Work> but you can still interact with folks...that's something no?[18:43:22] <Thom_Holwerda> for all we know he's kinda like hawking[18:43:23] <ddew|bofh> actually i'm pretty mobile. ;)[18:43:30] <StylusEater_Work> good[18:43:38] <geist> but of course that's the est part about the internet and irc and whatnot[18:43:42] <ddew|bofh> if you saw me on the street you'd not notice anything[18:43:46] <StylusEater_Work> in a weird way it'd be neat to be talking to someone that was using "hawking technology"[18:44:12] <ddew|bofh> it's sad to see the decline of hawking's health[18:44:18] <Thom_Holwerda> it wont be neat, you'll feel extremely uncomfortabe[18:44:30] <ddew|bofh> his one of the 20th century's greatest mind and he's now withering away[18:44:31] <Thom_Holwerda> human beings get all worked up when talking in such a way[18:44:34] <geist> oh he's getting worse?[18:44:45] <geist> of course he's already wayy on borrowed time at this point[18:44:56] <ddew|bofh> his health has been deteriorating since the 70s afaik[18:45:04] <geist> oh of course.[18:45:15] <geist> but the point is he should have died a long long time ago, and he's been basically doing fine[18:45:23] <geist> but that doesn't mean it wont just start progressing one day[18:45:35] <ddew|bofh> depends on your definition of fine ;)[18:45:44] <geist> of course[18:46:07] <ddew|bofh> takes him hours and a full-time assistant to just say one sentence nowadays[18:50:58] <ddew|bofh> hypothetically speaking, if i compiled a powerpc version of haiku and dd the resulting imagefile to a partition could it boot?[18:51:14] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[18:51:34] <ddew|bofh> or would a proper bootloader be needed?[18:51:53] <ddew|bofh> or even a BIOS? *shudder*[18:52:30] <CIA-17> axeld * r20740 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/mail/Prefs.cpp:[18:52:30] <CIA-17> * Applied patch by kaliber to fix bug #935; the result of FindItem() was not checked.[18:52:30] <CIA-17> * Minor cleanup.[18:54:18] *** NeonLicht has quit IRC[18:54:25] *** korli has joined #haiku[18:54:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli[18:56:22] *** NeonLicht has joined #haiku[18:56:31] *** Grackle has quit IRC[18:58:48] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[18:59:03] *** ekdahl has joined #haiku[18:59:37] <geist> ddew|bofh: no[18:59:51] <ddew|bofh> damn, that'd be way cool :)[18:59:59] <geist> yup[19:00:10] <geist> i think axel was only really porting it to the pegasos at the moment[19:00:28] <geist> which is a nice intermediate platform. it's ppc, has openfirmware, but aside from that is mostly identical to a reglar PC[19:00:31] <ddew|bofh> i have a couple of old imacs lying around that i can't bear to throw out[19:01:03] <ddew|bofh> too slow and underpowered to run osx and os9 is just horrid[19:01:26] <ddew|bofh> great works of engineering[19:01:54] *** Euver has joined #haiku[19:01:59] *** MauriceK_ is now known as MauriceK[19:03:32] *** tigerdog has joined #haiku[19:03:34] *** GreyGhost has joined #haiku[19:04:13] <geist> i suppose. my old G5 imac (500mhz) seems to run osx just fine[19:04:23] <geist> you can only do about one or two things at a time, but it's perfectly fine[19:04:32] <geist> the biggest downside is the crappy screen[19:04:35] <geist> anyway, gotta go[19:06:47] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[19:07:53] *** jixt_ has quit IRC[19:09:40] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[19:09:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[19:10:16] *** Sil2100 has quit IRC[19:11:35] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[19:13:33] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[19:15:21] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[19:17:12] *** MikeW has joined #haiku[19:20:33] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[19:24:19] *** pikapika has joined #haiku[19:24:59] <pikapika> hello[19:26:40] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[19:29:23] *** Yez has quit IRC[19:29:34] *** Master199 has quit IRC[19:35:13] *** NeonLicht has quit IRC[19:35:28] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[19:35:33] <Jixt> hi[19:35:42] <Thom_Holwerda> hi[19:35:45] *** NeonLicht has joined #haiku[19:40:52] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[19:41:57] *** NeonLicht has quit IRC[19:44:31] <Grackle> Ah, BeOS (BeOS Max, anyway) won't boot from a CD unless the cdrom is a slave device.[19:44:42] *** NeonLicht has joined #haiku[19:44:52] <Grackle> I don't know if that's common knowledge, but I didn't know that, and it's awfully important.[19:45:11] <procton> ouch...[19:45:44] <MikeW> oh thom is gracing the channel now :)[19:46:47] <Grackle> Hm, I didn't get past the boot screen... Loaded the cdrom though. *enables all safe mode options and tries again*[19:47:11] <Grackle> No joy. :([19:48:53] <Grackle> KERNEL: vm_init_swap: serious problem #0[19:48:54] <Grackle> :X[19:49:02] <Grackle> Sounds serious.[19:49:20] <Grackle> Stops at sysinit2: 23[19:49:23] <dr_evil> i think you even have a problem[19:49:29] <dr_evil> ahh, famous 23[19:49:30] <mmu_man> it's not[19:49:49] <mmu_man> it just tries to swap but can't because you can't write to a CD[19:50:33] <Grackle> Oh, well I wonder what it's failing on then.[19:50:52] <Grackle> dr_evil, famous 23?[19:51:22] <Thom_Holwerda> MikeW: you're kinda scaring me[19:51:25] <Thom_Holwerda> ;)[19:51:28] <dr_evil> illuminati[19:52:16] <Grackle> Using the IDE replacement drivers, I got past that and reached sysinit2: 31. Problem in app_server: segment violation[19:52:53] *** NeonLicht has quit IRC[19:53:29] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[19:53:32] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku[19:53:35] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[19:54:02] *** cmlenz has quit IRC[19:57:15] *** kad77 has quit IRC[19:58:37] <MikeW> Thom_Holwerda: So I guess you want to be first with the BeOS softawre/Haiku exclusives instead of the competition then?[19:59:21] <Thom_Holwerda> no, i got here yesterday because of a news submission which pointed me to here to get a certain screenshot[19:59:32] <Thom_Holwerda> and im still here, basically[19:59:36] <StylusEater_Work> haha[19:59:49] <Thom_Holwerda> iow[19:59:50] <ddew|bofh> there are suckier places to hang out in ;)[19:59:57] <StylusEater_Work> true[20:00:19] <StylusEater_Work> but I wouldn't say this chan sucks...so "suckier" ??? hrm[20:00:25] <Thom_Holwerda> if you want to set me up and make a picute of me hanging out at #treetalkers[20:00:38] <Thom_Holwerda> just tell me there's a screenshot of amigaos4 running on a dell[20:00:39] <ddew|bofh> StylusEater_Work: you get the general idea :)[20:00:45] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[20:01:01] <StylusEater_Work> ddew|bofh: I know...just giving you a tough time... ;-)[20:01:17] <ddew|bofh> can anyone think of any reasons for me NOT to install bone?[20:01:24] <ddew|bofh> hehe[20:01:25] *** MrRagga has joined #haiku[20:02:04] <ddew|bofh> i hate being stuck at a lowly 10mbits :/[20:02:17] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[20:02:21] <miqlas> Hello![20:02:35] <ddew|bofh> lo[20:02:40] <miqlas> Cool new icons! Thanks, Stippi![20:03:20] <ddew|bofh> yeah, they look great[20:03:40] <ddew|bofh> too bad r5 doesn't support svg or the sexy fontrendering in haiku :([20:04:05] <miqlas> But the Haiku support :)[20:04:20] <miqlas> I'm happy.[20:04:45] <ddew|bofh> yeah, i'm happy for that too. just wish my r5 desktop would look as good[20:04:47] <ddew|bofh> :)[20:04:58] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[20:04:58] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[20:05:13] *** Begasus_bbl is now known as Begasus[20:05:26] <Begasus> ddew|bofh you can use png icons in R5 ;)[20:05:31] <Begasus> re[20:06:03] <ddew|bofh> but i want svg :P[20:06:08] <ddew|bofh> and sexy fonts[20:06:11] <miqlas> svg tracker[20:06:12] *** ekdahl has quit IRC[20:06:17] <miqlas> fat tracker[20:06:20] <Jixt> jip svg tracker[20:06:23] <miqlas> newfs tracker[20:06:26] <ddew|bofh> i thought that was a zeta thing[20:06:37] <Jixt> nope[20:06:46] <ddew|bofh> time to fire up netpositive and look around bebits then :)[20:06:53] <miqlas> :)[20:06:54] <Thom_Holwerda> well i got like ten million legal copies of zeta so if yo want one ;)[20:07:00] <miqlas> news treacker[20:07:01] <ddew|bofh> assumed that the tracker in beosmax was the latest and greatest[20:07:04] <Thom_Holwerda> of course, legal is a relative term here[20:07:21] <miqlas> newfs...sorry[20:07:30] <ddew|bofh> Thom_Holwerda: i'd be happy to pick up copies of 1.2.1 and 1.5 :)[20:07:39] <CIA-17> korli * r20741 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/media_addon/ (MediaFilePlayer.cpp MediaFilePlayer.h): updated license header[20:07:42] <ddew|bofh> zeta==dead==abandonware[20:07:43] *** korli has quit IRC[20:07:46] <Grackle> Legal, relative to the legality of zeta itself?[20:07:53] <Thom_Holwerda> yup[20:07:56] <Thom_Holwerda> for now, its in limbo[20:08:02] <Grackle> Aye.[20:08:07] *** meianoite has joined #haiku[20:08:08] <Thom_Holwerda> still awaiting bernds response[20:08:16] <Jixt> please stick on Haiku related things :p[20:08:19] <meianoite> hey, guys[20:08:22] <Thom_Holwerda> he's on IM atm, so i might ask if i want[20:08:28] <Begasus> yep[20:08:34] <ddew|bofh> it looks like access has taken a "not-for-profit" stance on it, with the nod to beosmax and all[20:08:39] <Grackle> I may have to use Zeta if I can't get R5 to boot. *needs a BeOS development machine*[20:08:39] <miqlas> Thom_Holwerda: i also be happy to pick up the 1.5[20:08:43] *** GreyGhost has quit IRC[20:08:45] <meianoite> bga o/[20:09:14] <Thom_Holwerda> i only have one legal copy of 1.5[20:09:25] <Thom_Holwerda> so all i have to spare are 1.0/1.20/1.21[20:09:30] <Thom_Holwerda> oh and some pre-releases[20:09:56] <Thom_Holwerda> not that you'd want those[20:10:08] <ddew|bofh> i'm collecting beos gear :)[20:10:10] <Thom_Holwerda> oh wait[20:10:19] <Begasus> Grackle you can dev on Max[20:10:20] <miqlas> I'm also collector.[20:10:25] <Begasus> or DevEdition[20:10:31] <Thom_Holwerda> i threw out like three huge bags full of operating systems a few weeks ago[20:10:39] <Thom_Holwerda> i might have thrown out any double copies :([20:10:44] <miqlas> when you have anything, i need that.[20:10:52] <Grackle> Begasus, I can't get max to boot (stops on sysinit2: 23).[20:11:01] <Grackle> Begasus, where can I get DevEdition?[20:11:04] <Begasus> the latest or the previout?[20:11:16] <Begasus> go through beosfrance.com Grackle[20:11:25] <Begasus> previous*[20:11:51] <Grackle> Um, I'm using the version of BeOS Max that's listed on the wiki. I don't think it's the preview[20:11:53] <Begasus> older then the latest beta from MaxEd 4[20:12:03] <Begasus> ah k[20:12:15] <Begasus> heard about probs related to the CD's ...[20:12:22] <Begasus> haven't try'd in a while[20:13:05] <Begasus> TrackerNewFS should give you some SVG support on R5 too[20:13:06] <Grackle> Wee. *downloads deved*[20:13:26] <ddew|bofh> *is browsing* :)[20:13:29] <Begasus> you can use the 'loadicon' bin to set the SVG icon to the file's etc ....[20:13:59] * meianoite pokes JonathanThompson with a red hot rod, then he puts on a trout-repelling suit, *and* a furball-resistant topcoat[20:15:06] <Grackle> Ouch, what happened? I was getting just under 300kB/s off of beosfrance.com, but now it's down to 30kB/s :([20:15:36] <Begasus> don't know ... I've got the CD burned somewhere ... no need to get it again here ;)[20:16:06] <Grackle> I wonder if I can find a mirror.[20:17:46] *** cmlenz has joined #haiku[20:20:12] <Begasus> there is an older german (with the first DevEdition) around .. but that's at version 1.1 IIRC[20:20:17] <Begasus> beosonline.de[20:21:02] <Grackle> 404'd[20:21:21] <Begasus> well told you it was old ;)[20:21:39] <Grackle> hehe[20:21:43] <DeadYak> Developer Edition had a broken compiler iirc[20:21:46] <DeadYak> ironically[20:21:59] <Grackle> I think it might be my connection, not theirs. The power was out earlier, my ISP may very well be having some troubles.[20:22:08] <Grackle> :/ DeadYak, can that be fixed easily?[20:22:32] <Begasus> by installing the DevTools ;)[20:22:44] <Begasus> gcc 3.4 at BeBits ....[20:23:13] <Begasus> but that's not always the good one to use ... (I've been told)[20:24:41] <DeadYak> 3.4 won't work if you plan on building apps on R5[20:25:01] <DeadYak> won't be able to link to the system libs[20:25:12] <Begasus> yep ... that was what I've been told[20:25:28] <Begasus> the how and when I didn't know ;)[20:25:33] * meianoite pets DeadYak... while wearing gloves.[20:25:34] <meianoite> :)[20:25:39] <DeadYak> any version > 2.x will have that problem unless you're building all of Haiku with the same compiler[20:25:51] <Begasus> so best to stick to 2.95 to build system related stuff DeadYak?[20:26:25] <DeadYak> yeah, Oliver Tappe's rev works well iirc[20:26:45] <Begasus> ;)[20:26:48] <DeadYak> though to my awareness you can also build Haiku using gcc4, you just can't mix gcc versions between the OS and apps[20:26:54] <DeadYak> and seeing as R5 was built with 2.x ..[20:27:46] <Begasus> compiler compatibility isseus then ...[20:31:48] *** _Lucretia has joined #haiku[20:33:01] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[20:35:22] <DeadYak> Begasus: basically yeah, GCC 3 broke C++ ABI compat at various points, as does GCC4[20:35:25] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[20:36:17] <Begasus> so any app that would run on a gcc4 Haiku build should be compiled in gcc4 also?[20:36:35] <DeadYak> any app that uses the C++ APIs yes.[20:36:40] <DeadYak> if it's written in C it doesn't matter[20:36:46] <DeadYak> so POSIX apps generally don't care[20:37:00] <Begasus> ah k .. thnx for the crealification ;)[20:37:16] <DeadYak> np[20:37:46] <Begasus> hya hUMUNGUs ;)[20:39:06] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[20:39:44] <hUMUNGUs> hey Begasus[20:41:01] *** oco has joined #haiku[20:41:52] <Grackle> Hmm, I can't access my router. *figures that is a Bad Thing*[20:43:20] *** stargater has joined #haiku[20:43:21] *** Grackle has quit IRC[20:43:36] <stargater> hi[20:43:39] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[20:44:27] <stargater> kokito, thx for the sreenshot[20:46:35] <cizra> Hey[20:46:38] <cizra> e17 segfaulted![20:47:37] <DeadYak> you're surprised?[20:47:38] <Thom_Holwerda> screenshot?[20:47:52] <Grackle> Much faster after I reset my router. Hm.[20:48:02] * Begasus pins down Thom_Holwerda ... keep it up ;)[20:48:03] <cizra> DeadYak: yeah[20:48:06] <cizra> What should I trace?[20:48:15] <DeadYak> I dunno[20:48:20] <Begasus> or down ;)[20:48:23] <cizra> That is, what is enlightenment_fm?[20:48:32] <stargater> Thom_Holwerda, beshare haiku , you now :-)[20:48:40] <DeadYak> file manager I think[20:48:47] <Thom_Holwerda> ah yesterday's new :P[20:48:48] <Begasus> cizra for enlightment you best check the #elive channel[20:48:56] <Begasus> they use e17[20:49:21] <stargater> Thom_Holwerda, in german whas it 12h back = in the morning :-)[20:49:28] <cizra> Begasus: Whoops[20:49:30] <cizra> Wrong channel.[20:49:38] <Thom_Holwerda> stargater: i am from The Netherlands[20:49:41] <Begasus> np ;) though so[20:49:42] <Thom_Holwerda> so the same applies[20:49:50] <stargater> ah ok[20:50:00] <stargater> Begasus, i uses e17 too[20:51:42] <Begasus> going with joomla myself .. but I don't think he was refering to those[20:52:09] *** NeonLicht has joined #haiku[20:53:11] <stargater> hiha Begasus[20:55:34] <Grackle> Oh, I just had a think.[20:55:48] <Begasus> be carefull with those Grackle ....[20:55:50] * Grackle tries booting using a HD with BeOS max already on it[20:55:56] <Grackle> Yes, they're dangerous.[20:56:03] *** Sloar has quit IRC[20:56:12] <Begasus> k switching to the pc ....[20:56:13] *** Begasus has quit IRC[20:56:26] <Grackle> Oh, damn, it's Zeta, not Max.[20:56:38] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[20:57:24] <Begasus> re[20:57:40] *** NeonLicht has quit IRC[20:58:04] *** ekdahl has joined #haiku[21:00:02] <stargater> Thom_Holwerda, have see this ? http://urnenfeld.blogspot.com/[21:00:11] <stargater> wb Begasus[21:02:22] <Thom_Holwerda> stargater: wth?[21:02:59] <Thom_Holwerda> missed tat one[21:03:24] <stargater> read the blog :-)[21:05:41] *** oco has quit IRC[21:06:12] <mmu_man> I'd rather have OOo but eh[21:07:53] <Thom_Holwerda> OOo on beos? yuck.[21:08:06] <Jixt> is there someone who can help me in building a debug version of the usb stack?[21:08:07] *** Euver has quit IRC[21:08:11] <Thom_Holwerda> Correction: OOo on any os? yuck.[21:08:26] <mmu_man> Yeah /me too wants a debug usb stack[21:08:33] <petterhj-> what is that? start of an OOo port? or a new "suite" just called the same?[21:08:46] <mmu_man> Thom_Holwerda well I know it's ugly, huge and slow, but it does the job[21:08:47] <Thom_Holwerda> "Haik Gets OOo"[21:08:48] <Thom_Holwerda> ;)[21:08:53] <Grackle> :P[21:09:00] <Jixt> emitrax maybe?[21:09:02] <mmu_man> petterhj- no it's a different thing[21:09:10] <Thom_Holwerda> mmu_man: wait till you try either office:mac 2003 or, better yet, office 2007[21:09:15] *** NeonLicht has joined #haiku[21:09:17] <Thom_Holwerda> you'll forget all about the competition[21:09:19] <Thom_Holwerda> ms or not[21:09:29] * mmu_man sticks to OOo in win[21:09:31] <ddew|bofh> o2k7 kicks booty[21:09:42] <petterhj-> mmu_man: so it's a native writer application started from the ground up?[21:09:43] <ddew|bofh> the ui is pure brilliance[21:09:48] <Thom_Holwerda> ddew|bofh: yup[21:10:06] <Thom_Holwerda> proof that not everyone at MS is stupid[21:10:11] <Jixt> ddew|bofh for the mortal ones not...[21:10:16] <mmu_man> the Office team at Microsoft has always been more busy creating new GUI controls and menus to not look like the current windows than working on real features[21:10:24] <DeadYak> I do like 2k7[21:10:27] <meianoite> except that it murders the POLA =P[21:10:34] <ddew|bofh> looks like ms has turned a new leaf recently[21:10:39] <DeadYak> OOo on the other hand is arguably the worst office suite I've ever had the misfortune to work with frankly[21:10:40] <meianoite> as controls jeep jumping around depending on the context[21:10:47] <ddew|bofh> ozzie is good for them :)[21:10:48] <Thom_Holwerda> i wouldnt be surprpised to see microsof tputting the o2k7 team at work for the next windows[21:11:25] <ddew|bofh> one can hope[21:12:26] *** TTRanger has joined #Haiku[21:14:56] <emitrax> Jixt: hi[21:15:08] <Jixt> emitrax hi[21:17:40] <Jixt> if I'm correct, you will become one of the usb guys?[21:17:47] <stargater> Thom_Holwerda, a beos native Office = its called OOffice[21:18:04] <Thom_Holwerda> stargater: got as far as that by now ;)[21:18:43] <Begasus> run emitrax run!!! ;)[21:19:08] <emitrax> :)[21:19:45] * Jixt slaps Begasus[21:20:02] <emitrax> Jixt: yes[21:20:03] <Begasus> more! :D[21:20:20] <Jixt> old guys....[21:20:35] <emitrax> I'm going to make my thesis and the gsoc on the usb stack[21:20:57] <Jixt> when can you begin on it then?[21:21:08] <siarzhuk> oh God! Yet Another Tesises! :-D[21:21:54] <emitrax> Jixt: I've already started studying both the code and the specs[21:22:19] <Jixt> ow, nice ;)[21:22:42] <emitrax> Jixt: haiku-os.org/blog/emitrax[21:23:52] <Jixt> ok thx emitrax, will read it now[21:24:00] <mmu_man> how come everyone is overclocked here and I'm so tired ? :)[21:24:23] <meianoite> liquid cooling ;D[21:24:55] <emitrax> big fan[21:25:18] <ddew|bofh> passive cooling here ;)[21:25:35] <Thom_Holwerda> my machine is actually passivily coold[21:25:39] <Thom_Holwerda> no fans anywhere[21:25:59] <meianoite> so is my P133. big deal.[21:26:00] <meianoite> hehe ;)[21:26:07] <meianoite> stop bragging about your cube, Thom[21:26:09] <Thom_Holwerda> im using my cube atm :)[21:26:11] <Thom_Holwerda> :P[21:26:21] <Grackle> hah[21:26:32] <ddew|bofh> i'm sticking with the emac[21:26:38] <ddew|bofh> it's a very nice machine[21:28:45] *** _Lucretia is now known as _Lucretia_[21:31:18] *** kr1stof_ has joined #haiku[21:33:45] *** miqlas has quit IRC[21:33:55] <Jixt> emitrax: see private messages ;)[21:34:36] <stargater> oh , a new love in #haiku[21:34:52] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[21:36:17] <Jixt> :p[21:37:55] *** MrRagga has quit IRC[21:40:40] *** oco has joined #haiku[21:41:54] <mmu_man> plop[21:42:56] <oco> plop[21:45:52] *** rgb has joined #haiku[21:47:02] <SiCuTDeUx> umccullough, you have a blog?[21:47:11] *** TTRanger has quit IRC[21:47:32] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[21:52:03] <emitrax> Jixt: I dont[21:52:26] <Jixt> emitrax, ic[21:52:43] <emitrax> ?[21:52:48] <Jixt> i'm not able to send private messages :s[21:52:56] <Jixt> can you send one to me?[21:53:12] <Begasus> nick probly not registrated ?[21:53:29] <Jixt> ic, that could be it[21:53:33] <Jixt> where to do that?[21:53:36] <emitrax> done[21:53:51] <Begasus> /msg nickser register etc ...[21:54:05] <Begasus> /msg nickserv register help[21:54:12] <Begasus> that should give you some clues ;)[21:54:25] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[21:54:35] <dr_evil> puhhhh[21:55:01] <[Beta]> lo[21:56:02] <Jixt> ok emitrax, let me first register my nickname[21:56:23] *** rgb has quit IRC[21:58:56] *** nepcoder has joined #haiku[22:01:42] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[22:10:04] *** tgzuiop has joined #haiku[22:11:27] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[22:11:29] *** tgzuiop is now known as dr_evil[22:11:32] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[22:12:01] <ddew|bofh> hmm, are there any logs or similar i can give to someone to help out with the qemu-issue?[22:13:54] <geist> Thom_Holwerda: you got a cube? I got one too, it's nice[22:14:12] <Thom_Holwerda> i love it[22:14:15] <Thom_Holwerda> its my main machine[22:14:24] <Thom_Holwerda> what type do you have?[22:14:26] <Thom_Holwerda> 450 or 500?[22:15:10] <geist> it's a 450[22:15:38] <Thom_Holwerda> ah mine too[22:15:52] <Thom_Holwerda> its amaxing how fast it runs tiger, isnt it?[22:15:55] <geist> guess it was an older revision, i've never had any of the overheating problems[22:16:00] <geist> yeah, it seems faster than it should[22:16:06] <Thom_Holwerda> i do have 768mb of ram[22:16:13] <geist> the early G4s had a lot of cache[22:16:18] <Thom_Holwerda> and the upgraded geforce2mx card, so i got quartz extreme[22:16:19] <Thom_Holwerda> yeah'[22:16:44] *** ekdahl has left #haiku[22:16:49] <geist> i think mine may have an upgraded card in it too. I got it from someone at work[22:17:32] <Thom_Holwerda> ok[22:17:41] <MrSunshine> it sucks that pcs dont have the bebox geek port :)[22:20:43] <dr_evil> burhaha, after I enabled all tweaking options, wlan speed dropped from 2,5 MB/sec to 1,8 MB/Sec[22:23:56] <dr_evil> after reset, back at high speed[22:24:11] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[22:27:20] *** StylusEater_Work has left #haiku[22:38:03] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC[22:38:47] * _hugo pokes[22:39:56] *** novaburst has quit IRC[22:40:28] <Begasus> night peeps[22:42:07] *** Begasus has quit IRC[22:44:43] <dr_evil> I get huge lots of spam, with subjects like this, example: " It looks different in Win2K compared to XP, mostly due to member names changing."[22:44:59] *** nepcoder has quit IRC[22:45:23] <dr_evil> or "Any of the fields in the triple can be empty which means anything matches."[22:46:06] <dr_evil> "Having called Sam, she immediately went to the airport. Returns the next lower integer that is less than or equal to the number passed as a parameter."[22:47:24] <Grackle> Can't get that deved disc to boot on anything ether. :([22:47:39] <Grackle> hahaha dr_evil, that last one is great[22:52:09] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[22:52:17] *** dr_evil has left #haiku[22:52:25] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[22:52:25] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[22:55:09] *** DaaT has quit IRC[23:04:21] *** |DaaT| has joined #haiku[23:05:32] *** |DaaT| is now known as DaaT[23:08:18] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:09:09] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC[23:15:27] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[23:15:27] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[23:15:36] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[23:15:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[23:15:50] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[23:17:02] *** bga has quit IRC[23:19:01] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[23:28:45] *** cmlenz has left #haiku[23:28:59] *** Jixt has quit IRC[23:29:16] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[23:42:34] *** Euver has joined #haiku[23:45:39] <Pulko_Mandy> +++[23:45:42] *** Pulko_Mandy has quit IRC[23:47:54] *** MauriceK has quit IRC[23:50:05] *** axeld has quit IRC[23:55:35] *** kb7sqi has joined #haiku[23:59:30] *** emitrax has quit IRC