April 16, 2007 
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April 16, 2007 [00:03:38] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[00:03:41] <NeonLicht> dr_evil: what do you mean by a web intrface? do you mean a web IRC client?[00:04:03] *** MYOB has joined #haiku[00:04:47] <mmu_man> dr_evil hmm no, I use Miranda in windows sometimes though, works with IRC as well[00:05:15] <mmu_man> VNC could be an option as well =)[00:05:19] <mmu_man> (java client)[00:06:05] <dr_evil> NeonLicht yes, something that is useable through a http proxy, that doesn't allow connect[00:06:30] <mmu_man> pretty much disqualifies all java clients[00:06:43] <dr_evil> yes[00:06:48] <mmu_man> asked freshmeat.net ?[00:06:52] <NeonLicht> all of them suck, I'd say[00:07:27] <dr_evil> mmu_man perhaps I should install cgi:irc on a server[00:07:38] <dr_evil> (don't have server right now)[00:11:33] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20714 /haiku/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): introduced datalink's send_datagram to perform route and source address selection and dispatch the datagram to appropriate domain/protocol.[00:12:06] <MYOB> unable to ssh through a http tunnel in to somewhere nad use irssi?[00:12:47] <dr_evil> MYOB I don't want to install any software[00:12:53] <cizra> HTTP tunnel? What's that?[00:12:58] *** jevin_ has quit IRC[00:14:37] <MYOB> cizra you can run ssh through http ports, encapsulated as if it was http traffic[00:15:14] *** the_webers_inc has joined #haiku[00:16:02] <cizra> Interesting...[00:16:13] <MYOB> http://sebsauvage.net/punching/[00:16:32] <cizra> What's the difference between this and simply running sshd on port 80?[00:17:12] <meianoite> cizra proxies can enforce that only HTTP-looking traffic may pass.[00:17:43] <cizra> Ahh, encapsulation...[00:17:47] <cizra> Sneaky.[00:18:01] <meianoite> nothing beats "ping tunnel" skeaky.[00:18:06] <meianoite> THAT's sneaky[00:18:07] <meianoite> ;)[00:18:16] <cizra> nah[00:18:19] <cizra> pings can be blocked too.[00:18:24] <meianoite> I know[00:18:27] <cizra> Besides, they're more suspicious than HTTP.[00:18:28] <MYOB> meianoite DNS tunnel![00:18:29] <meianoite> but the sheer sneakyness...[00:18:35] <mmu_man> DNS-tunnels are nice too[00:18:48] <mmu_man> hmm I recall of a mail-tunnel also[00:18:51] <mmu_man> smtp :)[00:18:54] <meianoite> HOLY.[00:19:04] *** the_webers_inc has quit IRC[00:19:05] <MYOB> tried to set one of them up in BT - until I found out how to open :6667....[00:19:11] <meianoite> didn't I just eat that prio inversion I was experiencing for dinner? :D[00:19:26] <meianoite> now THAT's more like it[00:19:57] <meianoite> now let's just mute the printfs and see if there's any speed impact...[00:20:44] <meianoite> oops, profiling traces should be muted as well[00:22:38] <mmu_man> n8[00:22:42] *** MikeW has joined #haiku[00:22:53] <meianoite> ay... quite heavy speed impact indeed.[00:22:54] *** emitrax__ has quit IRC[00:23:35] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[00:25:18] <CIA-17> marcusoverhagen * r20715 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/ (14 files in 3 dirs): Added Jamfiles, changed some includes. The driver now builds for Haiku.[00:27:40] *** jevin has joined #haiku[00:28:34] *** jevin has quit IRC[00:29:07] *** jevin has joined #haiku[00:31:53] <meianoite> heh[00:32:01] <meianoite> GCC sucks.[00:32:21] <MYOB> were you the one that suggested replacing it on the ML? :P[00:32:43] <meianoite> not me[00:32:58] <meianoite> even though LLVM 0wnZ[00:33:16] <MYOB> umccullough you there?[00:33:17] <meianoite> but GCC does suck[00:33:21] <umccullough> MYOB, yeah[00:33:24] <umccullough> just got back ;)[00:33:33] <meianoite> turning a 2 line function into a define gained me 1000% speed[00:33:37] <MYOB> can I set your IDSL line on fire by linking to the Haiku-hosted webserver?[00:33:44] <meianoite> a function GCC SHOULD have inlined =P[00:33:47] <umccullough> just restarted RobinHood on my Haiku webserver too[00:33:53] <umccullough> please don't :P[00:33:59] <umccullough> Haiku crashes awefully easy ;)[00:34:21] <MYOB> "Haiku Hosts First Webserver*"[00:34:26] <umccullough> lol[00:34:27] <MYOB> *but we're not letting you see it[00:34:30] <umccullough> it was JonathanThompson's idea, btw[00:34:41] <umccullough> i just executed on it ;)[00:34:57] <meianoite> now that's OSNews worthy[00:34:59] <umccullough> go ahead... i'll just restart the damn thing every 15 mins! :D[00:35:14] <_hugo> umccullough: have you tested beshare?[00:35:25] <umccullough> _hugo, no, is it good?[00:35:30] <meianoite> Ars Technica worthy, rather. OSNews turned into a flaming pile of yak excrement[00:35:32] <umccullough> let me check, it should be on the partition[00:35:34] * meianoite nods DeadYak[00:35:49] <_hugo> umccullough: was just wondering. beshare should work properly now[00:37:18] <petterhj> BeShare runs - to some extent :)[00:37:29] <_hugo> petterhj: what fails?[00:38:29] <umccullough> it runs, but gets disconnected[00:38:34] <petterhj> IIRC it disconnected/reconnected randomly. but it was mostly GUI bugs (resizeing)[00:38:48] <umccullough> of course, i'm trying to run it with Vision and RobinHood at the same time :P[00:38:53] <petterhj> It fetched the servers, and I connected, but it disconnected pretty fast[00:38:56] <_hugo> umccullough: should be no problem[00:39:04] <_hugo> wondering about random disconnects, haven't experienced that[00:39:04] <umccullough> petterhj, i see the same thing here[00:39:11] <_hugo> you just connect and after a while it disconnects?[00:39:24] <_hugo> petterhj: is this with a recent revision?[00:40:05] <petterhj> 2.28(?) if I'm not mistaken[00:40:14] <_hugo> petterhj: i mean haiku revision[00:40:31] <umccullough> i see the same thing with 20682[00:40:35] <petterhj> oh. sorry. I don't remember. I download new versions all the time.[00:40:37] <MYOB> umccullough right, wait for the box to explode now ;)[00:41:01] <umccullough> MYOB, unfortunately i'll be gone for a bit - so warn everyone that it'll crash and be reset later[00:41:27] <petterhj> MYOB: maybe we should post it at Digg/Slashdot or something :p[00:41:49] <MYOB> pure evil, petterhj ;)[00:42:06] <umccullough> i know you hate me :)[00:42:27] <petterhj> ;)[00:42:28] <umccullough> i can kill the port on my firewall if i have to...so no big deal[00:42:44] <MYOB> I can't see petterhj hating anyone, I dunno why, he seems too nice :P[00:42:45] <umccullough> of course, saturating my 144kbit upstream will suck :P[00:43:10] <petterhj> Thats because I am.[00:43:12] <petterhj> :D[00:44:45] <CIA-17> marcusoverhagen * r20716 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/HaikuImage: integrate DVB-T driver into haiku-image[00:45:09] <umccullough> heh, definitely getting some traffic ;)[00:45:40] <MYOB> petterhj whats the "interrail." subdomain on your server for? have you done interrail?[00:45:43] <petterhj> I'm currently hammering it. Put up some images/links[00:46:21] <petterhj> MYOB; yea, last summer. I had my interrail blog there.[00:46:28] <MYOB> ah[00:46:36] <MYOB> I just used and abused the tickets to go somewhere specific cheaper ;)[00:46:41] <umccullough> MYOB, you can post the link to my flickr page with the screenshots too if you want ;)[00:46:53] <MYOB> umccullough I saw none of the httpd, etc[00:47:57] <dr_evil> n8[00:48:09] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[00:48:21] <umccullough> the first two in my photostream[00:48:28] <umccullough> http://www.flickr.com/photos/umccullough/459533929/[00:48:57] <MYOB> ...are python and vmware[00:49:06] <umccullough> what? did i not make them public?[00:49:08] <umccullough> let me check[00:49:37] <umccullough> seriously, you don't see this one?[00:49:37] <umccullough> http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=459533929&size=o[00:50:28] <MYOB> no[00:50:35] <MYOB> petterhj you go anywhere interesting?[00:50:46] <Ingenu> I see the pic[00:50:51] <Ingenu> is there anything special to see ?[00:51:02] <umccullough> Ingenu, Robin Hood running on Haiku right?[00:51:24] <Ingenu> yes[00:51:28] <Ingenu> both your urls work[00:51:39] <umccullough> ok... maybe MYOB's cache is messed up?[00:51:42] <Ingenu> r20682[00:51:58] <MYOB> doubt it.... I can see them from the direct links just not from the photosctream[00:52:10] <umccullough> strange[00:52:19] <petterhj> MYOB: we travelled down west-europe, and back up east-europe.. Have to say the latter where much more fun[00:52:30] <Ingenu> going to bed, midnight past and I work today[00:52:32] <Ingenu> night[00:52:49] *** MikeW has quit IRC[00:52:51] <MYOB> petterhj well, I found eastern europe a mix of fun and dangerous...[00:52:54] <MYOB> and generally cheap[00:52:56] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[00:53:03] <petterhj> MYOB: exactly[00:53:22] <petterhj> we had a pretty low budget, and in the west we were poor, and in the east we could afford having a great time..[00:53:37] <MYOB> still need to do Iberia and Scandinavia some time, I've seen most of Europe, albeit fleetingly at this stage...[00:54:10] <petterhj> Norway has some great sights :)[00:54:12] <MYOB> I just need to get around to taking the time off :/[00:54:14] <CHodapp> sigh... my travels are restricted to about a 300-mile radius in the US[00:54:29] <MYOB> I could justify it to myself if there was good clubbing and/or skating....[00:55:09] <petterhj> you skate? like roller blades?[00:55:13] <umccullough> 1[00:55:15] <umccullough> doh[00:55:41] <CHodapp> I GOT UMCCULLOUGH'S CREDIT CARD NUMBER[00:55:43] * CHodapp runs away[00:55:46] <petterhj> skate and/or clubbing. strange mix - if I did not understand[00:55:51] <MYOB> petterhj board[00:55:58] <petterhj> ah, sure[00:56:00] <petterhj> hehe..[00:56:10] <MYOB> roller blades are like so 1995 ;)[00:56:19] <petterhj> heha, true.[00:56:32] <CHodapp> I only had one rollerblade when I was a kid.[00:56:37] <CHodapp> never was too good on it[00:56:54] <MYOB> anyway, if theres actually decent skateparks or a tolerance of (ab)using civic facilities for skating, I might be interested in going for a visit[00:57:04] <MYOB> ditto if there was decent clubbing, preferably trance...[00:57:15] <[Beta]> umccullough, maybe you got flagged as naughty on Flickr ?[00:57:27] *** oco has quit IRC[00:57:30] <petterhj> MYOB: so you're not the type doing hikes in the mountains then? hehe[00:57:33] <[Beta]> I didnt see the images in stream either.[00:57:39] <MYOB> petterhj no thats [Beta][00:57:44] *** jevin has quit IRC[00:57:51] <[Beta]> heh, more like foothills :)[00:58:09] <MYOB> I do cycle but theres no way I'm bringing my mountain bike from far northwestern to far northeastern europe ;0[00:58:24] <petterhj> trance. Maybe you should attend the Roskilde Festival this summer (Denmark). DJ Tiesto - if thats your music (I don't know much about trance anymore)[00:58:52] <MYOB> going to see Tiesto in Dublin in June[00:59:02] <MYOB> yay theres direct flights to Oslo from Dublin now[00:59:05] <MYOB> on Braathens[01:00:17] <petterhj> An hour flight or something?[01:00:34] <petterhj> At least I can't remember the flight taking long when I went to London[01:00:38] <MYOB> ironic that our biggest airline flies to oslo but not to ireland...[01:01:45] <MYOB> I find it worrying that SAS have an Irish website[01:01:52] <MYOB> there can't be that much demand?[01:02:28] <petterhj> sounds odd yes[01:02:51] <MYOB> www.flysas.ie[01:03:20] <MYOB> petterhj 2hr5 direct[01:03:49] <MYOB> or >4hrs with a change in Copenhagen[01:04:30] <petterhj> Well, Copenhagen is fun.[01:04:33] <petterhj> Riots and all.[01:04:40] <MYOB> heh[01:04:59] <MYOB> whats 'internal' air travel in scandinavia like?[01:06:02] <MYOB> or train travel for that matter[01:06:16] <petterhj> not reeeeally necessary[01:06:33] <umccullough> ugh, i'm rebooting this thing :P[01:06:40] <petterhj> depends where you want to go. If you want to go far north, plane is needed.[01:06:47] *** Mazon is now known as mazon[01:06:58] <MYOB> well I'll do trains as a preference in most cases[01:07:08] <MYOB> they just have to be decent enough and not exceptionally expensive[01:07:18] <MYOB> but hey, I've used the UK train network! I'm used to exceptionally expensive...[01:07:59] <petterhj> I paid nearly the same for train tickets from Copenhagen to Oslo than my 3 week interrail pass[01:08:09] <MYOB> norway is in schengen, right?[01:08:28] <petterhj> yea[01:08:43] <MYOB> right, no visa shite there[01:08:56] <MYOB> we're not in schengen but every passport holder has an infinite schengen visa[01:09:35] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[01:10:27] <MYOB> UK and Ireland have a too-free border arrangement for either of us to join schengen so that deal was done instead[01:10:34] <petterhj> travelling in europe is mostly ok, except they have a passport fetish in eastern europe[01:11:08] *** MikeW has joined #haiku[01:11:23] <MYOB> as I well know :S[01:11:34] <MYOB> they're not meant to but they've not implemented Schenge there properly yet[01:11:46] <MYOB> that and I was last there in 2004 ;)[01:12:22] <petterhj> and theres probably some leftovers from the communist-era :p[01:13:39] <MYOB> that too[01:13:55] <MYOB> anyway, if I decide to do my "winter trip somewhere random" to Norway I'll let you know...[01:14:05] <MYOB> I may need to sleep on your couch :P[01:14:11] <MikeW> did someone say trip to norway?[01:14:28] <MikeW> petterhj: weren't you in NY?[01:14:55] <MYOB> actually I'm not sure if I can do one, work leave wise, as I'm going to Noo Yoik in october...#[01:14:56] <petterhj> MikeW; nah, never been over the pond[01:15:16] <MikeW> hrm, then I wonder who was the beos guy who was in NY and looked like a homeless man[01:15:25] <petterhj> hehe[01:15:40] <MYOB> petterhj I think you need to be morbidly insulted :P[01:16:11] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[01:16:24] <petterhj> I believe I have a pretty fair amount of self-irony[01:16:39] <petterhj> :p[01:16:49] *** jevin has joined #haiku[01:17:09] <MYOB> actually, where in Norway are you?[01:17:32] <MYOB> I'm presuming not everywhere is max. 5 hours from Oslo like Ireland is[01:18:45] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20717 /haiku/trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs): introduced Checksum::PseudoHeader helper.[01:19:01] <petterhj> MYOB: currently I'm a couple of hours outside of Oslo (eastern norway), but this summer I'm moving to Oslo to study at the university[01:19:45] <MYOB> ahh, MikeW distance from civilisation ;)[01:20:11] <petterhj> MYOB: not really. norway is a pretty long country. If you drive to the northern part, you could just as well went the other way and end up in italy or something[01:20:58] <petterhj> most of us live in the south though ;)[01:21:28] *** mmadia has quit IRC[01:22:21] <MYOB> yeah, here you can drive to virtually anywhere important in 5 hours from dublin and we nearly all still live on one side of the country...[01:23:01] <MYOB> to the point that the digital radio and TV here are on two each of the 110 transmitters (TV) / 50-something (radio) and cover over half the population![01:24:21] <petterhj> hehe. that could never happen in norway with all its deep valleys and high mountains. thats why we invented the GSM technology (or something, which the swedes or something stole)[01:24:44] <MYOB> yeah, theres a reason that other half need another 108 transmitters[01:24:44] <petterhj> (not that GSM has anything to do with TV/Radio transmission)[01:24:49] <petterhj> hehe[01:25:05] <MYOB> Counties Dublin, Kildare and Meath have ONE TV transmitter and 45% of the population[01:25:11] <MYOB> County Kerry has >20 and about 4%[01:26:00] <petterhj> Is Ireland flat? Whats your highest peek?[01:26:16] <petterhj> not like denmark i hope? (~300m)[01:26:23] <MYOB> 1341m[01:26:26] <MYOB> in Kerry...[01:27:29] <MYOB> erm,. 1039m. How the hell did I have 1341 in memory...[01:27:35] <petterhj> hehe[01:27:44] <MYOB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrauntoohill[01:28:19] <petterhj> let's exchange mountains[01:28:20] <petterhj> http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galdh%C3%B8piggen[01:29:06] <MYOB> I can't read nnyorsk :P[01:29:26] *** Grackle_ has joined #haiku[01:29:45] <MYOB> *clicks on Englsh interwiki*[01:29:53][01:29:56] <MYOB> or was that Bokmal?[01:30:20] <MYOB> ahhh[01:30:30] <MYOB> we just go for the "pure confusion" angle with our second language[01:30:33] <MYOB> because its totally different ;)[01:31:43] <MYOB> ni bheigh aon daoine as tire eile abailte ag, erm, deanigh? cad a bhi me ag scriobh (christ that was hard)[01:32:39] <petterhj> that was bokmal yes. ours are practically the same. bokmal is influenced by the danish, nynorsk is mostly made up from dialects[01:32:48] *** MikeW has quit IRC[01:33:03] <petterhj> you learn it in school?[01:33:19] *** santagada has joined #haiku[01:33:24] *** Grackle_ has quit IRC[01:33:44] <MYOB> yes[01:33:51] <MYOB> badly, usually[01:34:15] <MYOB> less than half of population claim they can speak it[01:34:23] <petterhj> same applies to new-norwegian[01:34:30] <petterhj> no one cares[01:34:31] <petterhj> heh[01:34:33] <MYOB> 21.6% claiim every day, but I'd guess the majority of them are lying[01:34:48] <petterhj> it's probably a dying language i guess?[01:34:51] <MYOB> you're far, far more likely to hear someone speaking Polish than Irish[01:34:52] <MYOB> yes[01:35:22] <MYOB> the Irish language TV network has to rely on US imports - which they often don't subtitle - and sports for ratings[01:35:28] *** Grackle_ has joined #haiku[01:35:42] <MYOB> and the national Irish language radio station does requests shows where they'll play requests that come in in English[01:35:45] <Grackle> grr[01:36:41] <MYOB> the actual, real fluency rate is believed to be ~8%...[01:37:55] <petterhj> our government TV stations has rules when it comes to showing new-norwegian shows, or subtiteling in new-norwegian[01:38:47] <petterhj> but i guess most young people won't speak dialect anymore.[01:39:43] *** Grackle has quit IRC[01:40:07] <MYOB> I thought the scandinavian languages were more under threat from English on TV?[01:40:36] <MYOB> in the days when Viasat was hackable (hello mats| :P ), or Canal Digital Nordic, I used to watch a lot of English language shows....[01:41:24] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[01:42:08] <petterhj> the commercial channels mostly air english shows/films[01:42:26] <MYOB> on a full cable package here theres more Polish language shows in prime time than Irish[01:42:38] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[01:42:49] <MYOB> often all the Irish networks will be in English, as will the UK ones, but a full cable package here has TVP3 and TV Polonia ;)[01:43:00] <petterhj> hehe, why is that?[01:43:39] <MYOB> well, 10% of the population are post-2004 immigrants and most of them are Polish[01:43:50] <MYOB> oh, and I forgot the new is in Polish on City Channel too...[01:43:59] <petterhj> hehe, i see[01:45:51] <petterhj> we have a lot of polish work immigrations these days as well. they are damn cheap comparing to norwegian workers, and they are exploited for that unfortunately[01:46:05] <MYOB> they've legally regulated the TV/radio stations here so that any station that has a terrestrial broadcast has to have some Irish but its like sticking an elastoplast on the titanic[01:46:16] *** pikapika has quit IRC[01:46:37] <petterhj> hehe[01:47:18] <MYOB> can make sunday mornings at 4am interesting, though[01:47:28] <MYOB> as most of the DAB band is all in Irish ;)[01:50:40] <MYOB> which as all the Irish speakers live down the country, is no use as theres no DAB there![01:51:52] <petterhj> hehe.. we're probably moving to DAB in norway as well, which they get a lot of criticism for[01:53:14] <MYOB> its not going to replace FM here[01:53:31] <MYOB> FM is going to be replaced with DRM+ on the same band[01:53:57] <MYOB> DAB can't do local radio well - as the UK has found out, DRM+ is just like digital FM...[01:56:21] *** Grackle has quit IRC[01:56:36] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[01:56:42] <petterhj> i see. i usually don't care as long as I still can listen to and watch NRK radion/tv (our BBC)[01:57:19] <MYOB> heh[01:57:26] <MYOB> all I care about TV wise is the actual BBC ;)[01:57:55] <MYOB> RTE - sure, its nice to have it in 16:9 and digitally, but, meh for the content][01:59:06] <petterhj> well, NRK love BBC, and airs all their shows.[02:00:27] <MYOB> heh[02:00:47] <MYOB> I can get the BBC on analogue aerial here, but digital satellite is so much better ;)[02:01:23] <petterhj> sure. I only have aerial where I currently lives, which means that I have four channels![02:01:36] <petterhj> two of them are great (NRK 1 and NRK 2), the other two suck[02:01:39] <MYOB> only 4 here too, analogue or digital[02:02:00] <MYOB> unless like me you get the british ones too - another 4, or 5[02:02:08] <petterhj> one of them air only british social porn - like right now: "Too you to be a father"[02:02:18] <petterhj> young*[02:02:25] <MYOB> the fifth is so low power, usually if you get it you can get the british digital service (about 35 channels)[02:02:30] <MYOB> never heard of that![02:02:57] <petterhj> just crappy "documentaries"[02:03:17] <MYOB> you only had 1 TV station until 1988?[02:03:24] <petterhj> "The worlds biggest boobs" / "The fattest man in the UK"[02:03:35] <petterhj> 1992[02:03:36] <petterhj> :)[02:03:39] <MYOB> sounds like ITV![02:03:57] <MYOB> Wikipedia said TVNorge started in 88[02:04:16] *** Grackle has quit IRC[02:04:17] <MYOB> or was that only on cable?[02:04:30] <petterhj> yep[02:04:33] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[02:05:20] <petterhj> it was in 1990 that the government ended the monopoly of NRK, and founded a channel financed by commercials[02:05:21] <MYOB> we had only one Irish channel till 78, and only got 4 by 98 but the idea of having one channel in the 90s... jaysus[02:05:57] <MYOB> we allowed a commercial channel in 1988. unfortunately it went bankrupt before it got on air :D[02:06:16] <petterhj> now we have 3/4 aerial channels (depending on where you live), two commercial, and two governmental[02:06:21] <petterhj> heheh[02:06:34] <MYOB> eventually got another in 1998[02:07:04] <MYOB> theres two state owned english channels, one state owned irish channel and one commercial irish channel. but >70% of people get either the british channels off-air, or have cable or satellte[02:07:51] <MYOB> boggers (country people) get accused of living in "four channel land" - no brtish channels, no cable, and they;re usually too poor/suspicious to pay for satellte, and too stupid to know you get >200 channels free...[02:09:07] <petterhj> those who have satellite here are mostly country people. in the cities people have cable. I have neither.[02:09:28] <petterhj> you are a satellite pirate, right? ;o[02:10:05] <MYOB> yes, but theres still >200 truely free[02:10:19] <petterhj> how?[02:10:49] <MYOB> UK satellite is mostly free[02:10:53] <MYOB> due to BBC/ItV[02:11:26] <petterhj> oh, not here.. we're going to go digital soon, so we'll get some more channels then..[02:11:47] <petterhj> and theres allways crappy services like http://www.euchannels.net[02:11:56] <petterhj> P2P pirate TV :p[02:12:09] <MYOB> http://homepage.eircom.net/~beos/1metre.jpg is my satellite setup the day I put it in. I've replaced the LNB and cabling with better quality ones and tidyed it all up since[02:12:32] <MYOB> the smaller dish is also mine...[02:12:56] <petterhj> so, if you buy the dish, you get channels for free, legally?[02:13:00] <MYOB> yes[02:13:34] <MYOB> BBC1, 2, 3, 4, ITV 1, 2, 3, 4, BBC News, two BBC kids channels, FIlm4 (channel 4's film channel), then about 20 other decent and 170 other crap channels[02:13:47] <petterhj> hehe, sure..[02:14:03] *** the_webers_inc has joined #haiku[02:16:38] <MYOB> the small dish can get them[02:16:44] <MYOB> the big dish is for getting feeds, foreign channels, etc[02:16:51] <MYOB> I have a 'special box' for that sort of stuff ;)[02:17:37] <petterhj> hehe;)[02:17:42] <petterhj> but time for bed. back to delivering mail tomorrow morning[02:17:45] <petterhj> ugh[02:17:58] <MYOB> delivering mail?[02:18:01] <MYOB> petter the postman?[02:18:16] <petterhj> thats right :)[02:18:16] *** Minbari has joined #haiku[02:18:39] <MYOB> hrm, and dr_evil -looks- like my postman, could be a trend here...[02:18:53] <petterhj> Took a year off working before studying..[02:18:54] <petterhj> hehe[02:18:55] <petterhj> :p[02:19:19] <MYOB> I decided to do that and now I can't be arsed going to college ;)[02:19:32] <MYOB> working as a support engineer for a medical software firm[02:21:01] <umccullough> _hugo, i'm getting a lot of "SendTo: No route to host." now[02:21:05] <umccullough> and the routes are there :P[02:21:08] <petterhj> thats the danger about taking a year off working. you get accustomed to recieve a pretty good paycheck. thats nothing like studying[02:21:29] <umccullough> during ping that is[02:21:33] <MYOB> I managed to scare someone on beshare when saying what I earned[02:21:41] <MYOB> had to remind him that Ireland = Expensive (Extremely)[02:21:45] <JonathanThompson> There's a real chance that long-term it'll zap your earnings ability, though.[02:22:06] <MYOB> JonathanThompson surveys here show its by max 2,000 euros a year and thats after 20 years[02:22:14] <petterhj> MYOB: you don't have to tell me. Norway is probably one of the most expensive countries in the world[02:22:26] <MYOB> at my stage its 0 differential and I'm still ahead of the game by not being in college ;)[02:22:31] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps Ireland is a weird place in that sort of thing, then.[02:23:15] <cizra> Why does Haiku use its own, non-standard Jam?[02:23:16] * JonathanThompson wonders how many didn't participate in the survey, or BSed their results out of shame :P[02:23:17] <MYOB> anyway. I also have work in the morning[02:23:22] <petterhj> night all[02:23:26] *** Grackle has quit IRC[02:23:27] <JonathanThompson> Bye MYOB.[02:23:28] <_hugo> umccullough: in?[02:23:30] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[02:23:32] *** petterhj has quit IRC[02:23:33] <MYOB> its a hour or two earlier here than petterhj though ;)[02:23:37] <MYOB> JonathanThompson not many I'd expect[02:24:06] <_hugo> umccullough: in RobinHood?[02:24:08] <MYOB> right, gone[02:24:25] *** MYOB has quit IRC[02:24:54] <JonathanThompson> I guess I'm skeptical as to how good of a representative that survey was.[02:25:19] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps what wasn't stated is what the overall average wage was for that 20 years, too.[02:26:38] *** MrWGW has joined #haiku[02:26:41] <JonathanThompson> In the US, there used to be plenty of jobs you could earn decent money without even high school education, but they weren't/aren't jobs that are a good work environment, and they rely on a lot of brute strength, etc. and most jobs like that are going elsewhere than the US.[02:27:08] <MrWGW> which is probably a good trend Jonathan[02:27:15] <MrWGW> most brute force labor should ultimately be mechanized IMO[02:27:21] <MrWGW> humans are best used as knowledge workers[02:27:26] <JonathanThompson> I'd agree.[02:27:56] <JonathanThompson> And that's why I wonder about what MYOB was saying about there only being 2000 euro difference/year between those with college education and those without in Ireland.[02:28:01] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20718 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (6 files): made TCP handle multiple domains.[02:28:25] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps most of those without and with a college education were too busy working to bother answering the survey :P[02:28:57] <MrWGW> well IMO college education is overrated[02:29:04] <MrWGW> what's needed is a neutral system of qualification tests[02:29:08] <MrWGW> administered by a government agency[02:29:17] <MrWGW> and these tests would be taken regardless of whether or not you went to college[02:29:27] <MrWGW> and the goal would be that they would serve as the ultimate proof of ones capabilities[02:29:28] <JonathanThompson> There are many cases where it really is a Good Thing but other cases where it doesn't seem very useful.[02:29:44] <_hugo> MrWGW: college is not about certification but about education[02:29:45] <MrWGW> there would be different qualifications for different things, and you could take them more than once, and at different stages in your life[02:29:58] <MrWGW> yes but most people view college degrees as certification[02:30:21] <MrWGW> when in reality they're not, and a number of college graduates are near flunkies who managed to get C grades through massive posterior kissing, plagiarism, and cheating[02:30:22] <JonathanThompson> A former supervisor of me expressed that getting through college showed that you've learned how to learn, and that's really the biggest and most important result to aim for.[02:30:23] <_hugo> and makes sense. in principle if you have more education, you would be better qualified[02:30:31] <_hugo> doesnt apply to all cases, but makes sense in the general case.[02:30:49] <_hugo> MrWGW: everyone cheats in life[02:30:57] <MrWGW> enh[02:31:02] <JonathanThompson> And yes, you only get out of college what you put into it: the school itself may mean nothing either way.[02:31:10] <_hugo> the fact that people go though college cheat, is no different than regular people cheating in anything else[02:31:19] <_hugo> *that some people[02:31:21] <JonathanThompson> That's a generalized statement that's not 100% true, _hugo :)[02:31:51] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: what is?[02:31:58] <JonathanThompson> That everyone cheats in life?[02:32:01] <JonathanThompson> ![02:32:07] <_hugo> what i mean is[02:32:15] <_hugo> the same way some people cheat in college[02:32:22] <_hugo> others cheat outside college as well[02:32:41] <JonathanThompson> Ah, yes, there's no limit as to whom and where cheating will be done by.[02:32:44] <_hugo> stating that people cheat during college and thus its implicit certification doesn't apply is no justification[02:33:05] <_hugo> (im' highly critical of the education system btw)[02:33:26] <JonathanThompson> I've known many people with great educational backgrounds that were completely incompetent in their field of study.[02:33:41] <_hugo> however, i would say that if i were to compare a person with higher education to another one with the same age, the one with higher education would probably be more qualified[02:33:57] <JonathanThompson> I've also known people without a highly rated college background or no college background to be the most competent in a field, too.[02:33:59] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: again, you can find incompetent people everywhere[02:34:04] <_hugo> with or without a college degree[02:34:25] <meianoite> true.[02:34:33] *** Master199 has quit IRC[02:34:44] <_hugo> having a college degree doesn't make everyone better, it is just that in the _average_ cast, a person with higher education is more well prepared[02:34:56] <_hugo> average case even[02:35:12] <JonathanThompson> What a lot of people screw up on in life is thinking "I got a degree in n now I'll be qualified!" and never update their education on their own. Those are the type of people you don't ever want to hire.[02:35:36] <Minbari> or work for![02:35:41] <JonathanThompson> That too, Minbari :)[02:36:27] <JonathanThompson> A good college education is sort of a way to provide you with the proven skills to stick to something long-term, figure out how to progress, and to know how to find out what you don't know, and then apply yourself to learn what's wanted/needed for a particular goal.[02:36:39] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: depends on the area[02:36:55] <meianoite> people generally suck. degrees are just heuristics to weed out the ones who suck most[02:36:58] <_hugo> but in engineering/science that applies[02:37:01] <JonathanThompson> There are some where it is vital they go, such as medicine, and several types of engineering.[02:38:19] <JonathanThompson> There are a lot of software developers that have no computer science education at all, and some are great, others probably (hopefully!) got weeded out in the dot com bust.[02:38:44] <JonathanThompson> At least those that didn't achieve a similar level of education on their own, informally.[02:38:50] <JonathanThompson> And competency.[02:39:39] <_hugo> i don't know a single software developer with no computer science education. maybe formal education :-)[02:40:10] <_hugo> anyway, it seems umccullough is dead[02:40:25] * JonathanThompson attempts to resurrect umccullough[02:40:52] <cizra> Try mouth-to-mouth breathing or what it's called.[02:40:58] <cizra> Cardiopulmonary resuscitation[02:40:58] <JonathanThompson> CPR[02:41:10] <cizra> Your breath is bad enough to wake a week old corpse up.[02:41:16] <JonathanThompson> :P[02:41:33] * JonathanThompson hates to think how cizra would "know" that anyone has that bad of breath[02:41:50] <JonathanThompson> I have no clue where you live :)[02:42:00] <meianoite> _hugo I guess you never met clipper developers[02:42:03] <meianoite> heck, even VB ones[02:42:08] <cizra> Well.. if wind blows from your side, I usually close the window.[02:42:14] <umccullough> _hugo, not dead... :)[02:42:19] <_hugo> meianoite: i have[02:42:22] <cizra> OK, don't take it as an offense or anything, JonathanThompson. I'm just foolin' around.[02:42:32] * JonathanThompson wonders if cizra is practicing on #Haiku to become an insult comic :)[02:42:33] <_hugo> umccullough: you meant robinhood stopped working?[02:42:46] <umccullough> _hugo, actually, i was unable to ping from my Haiku box after bootup[02:42:57] <umccullough> seems like every other boot i just get a "no route to host"[02:43:00] <cizra> JonathanThompson: Hey, that's an idea![02:43:05] <umccullough> even though the interface and routes look right[02:43:18] <JonathanThompson> Practice that for the next software field bust, cizra :)[02:43:21] <_hugo> umccullough: hm[02:43:42] <_hugo> umccullough: a single no route to host or every call to ping returns that?[02:43:50] <umccullough> every call to ping[02:44:06] <_hugo> umccullough: never happened before?[02:44:07] <umccullough> as in, it repeats until i stop it[02:44:24] <umccullough> _hugo, possibly, but just started happening a lot this afternoon[02:44:28] <_hugo> umccullough: what revision is this btw[02:44:35] <umccullough> 20682[02:44:59] <umccullough> _hugo, could be more DHCP issues i guess - since i was using a fixed IP this morning, and then i got my DHCP running again[02:45:20] <_hugo> umccullough: if the routes look ok, it's strange[02:45:26] <umccullough> yeah[02:45:32] <umccullough> right now it's fine...[02:45:33] <_hugo> umccullough: are you pinging a host in your local network?[02:45:46] <umccullough> failed just pinging my gateway![02:45:54] <_hugo> umccullough: type 'arp' please[02:45:55] <umccullough> so, same subnet failed[02:46:06] <JonathanThompson> If you don't practice something in your spare time besides software stuff, meianoite, perhaps one day you may suddenly find it a horrible economy in your area, and discover the only people that want to hire you (because you've been earning too much until you got laid off, and present a flight risk) is pizza restaurants that want delivery drivers.[02:46:08] <_hugo> umccullough: and check the entry concerning your gateway[02:46:13] <_hugo> umccullough: does it have a 'reject'?[02:46:14] <JonathanThompson> Wait, I mean cizra :P[02:46:35] <umccullough> not at the moment[02:46:38] <umccullough> right now it's working[02:46:41] <meianoite> JonathanThompson fortunately I happen to be a great cook as well[02:46:46] <meianoite> ;)[02:46:47] <umccullough> i gotta go though - i'll be back laters[02:46:55] <_hugo> umccullough: you mentioned that pinging your gateway failed[02:46:56] <JonathanThompson> Do you like doing it as well as coding?[02:47:00] <_hugo> umccullough: ok then[02:47:01] <meianoite> so I may even cook the pizza[02:47:27] <JonathanThompson> A typical pizza place won't require much actual skill for doing that, and that pays less than a driver, because it has much less risk :)[02:47:42] <meianoite> there's plenty of stuff I like. and, really, the U.S. is so completely different from Brazil[02:47:53] <JonathanThompson> That isn't too surprising for me.[02:48:02] <meianoite> we're nowhere, *nowhere* near reaching capacity saturation regarding software development[02:48:15] *** Grackle has quit IRC[02:48:17] <meianoite> so for the time being I believe I'm safe[02:48:23] <_hugo> nor is the US[02:48:31] <JonathanThompson> But in the US, going for a job significantly lower wages than something you've done for many years in the past typically has employers wary of hiring you, because they're afraid you won't stay.[02:48:37] <_hugo> its just that people want to earn more money than some companies are offering[02:48:40] *** fernandotcl has joined #haiku[02:48:55] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[02:49:06] <meianoite> I guess I should change strategies then[02:49:13] <meianoite> begin cheap[02:49:18] <meianoite> stay relatively cheap[02:49:18] <JonathanThompson> In the dot com bust period, the software field in the US was a bit of a bust for those with certain types of background, and it was extremely tight.[02:49:23] <meianoite> and retire expensive ;)[02:50:08] <JonathanThompson> Firms that developed software (for many types) were laying off large numbers of people, and going out of business.[02:50:15] <meianoite> the TCL here is low enough I could actually live a year off of GSoC's pay[02:50:32] <meianoite> not that it would be the pinnacle of comfort, but it would be decent.[02:50:34] <JonathanThompson> It may have also been much worse in certain regions, and I know where I was living it was really bad, and still probably isn't very good.[02:51:03] <_hugo> meianoite: do you pay for your house?[02:51:06] <JonathanThompson> I don't know what the GSoC pays for that period, but you couldn't do that here, I strongly suspect, meianoitei.[02:51:13] *** Grackle has quit IRC[02:51:18] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: no, you couldnt. its 4.5k USD[02:51:20] <meianoite> JonathanThompson that much I know[02:51:31] <JonathanThompson> Ah, not even 3 months rent for my current place :)[02:52:04] <_hugo> i couldn't live off 4.5k for a year also[02:52:08] <meianoite> renting a perfectly decent place here costs around US$150/mo[02:52:23] <JonathanThompson> You *MIGHT* get a room for that.[02:52:38] <JonathanThompson> A single bedroom with nothing else, and kitchen privileges.[02:52:47] <JonathanThompson> And I doubt it'd be in my current area.[02:53:14] <_hugo> isnt a single-bedroom apartment in the bay area around 1k/1.5k a month?[02:53:17] <_hugo> something like that[02:53:20] <JonathanThompson> And then there's food expenses, etc.[02:53:36] <meianoite> the joys of underdevelopment[02:53:37] <JonathanThompson> I live in the Seattle area, but that wouldn't surprise me, _hugo.[02:53:46] <meianoite> my last resort could be moving to China :)[02:53:51] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: yeah i know, just wondering if you aware of the costs in the bay area[02:54:04] <_hugo> if you were[02:54:12] <JonathanThompson> I had looked for a short time at a possible job in San Luis Obispo in December.[02:54:16] <JonathanThompson> It was more expensive than here.[02:54:27] <_hugo> less rain, more pay :-P[02:54:32] <JonathanThompson> I also had a phone interview in October with Symantec.[02:55:30] <JonathanThompson> With being on an edge of LA, I sincerely doubt I'd want to live there, regardless of the job, and I'm not sure I'd want to be working on Symantec's stuff anyway.[02:57:09] *** kokito has joined #haiku[02:57:35] * JonathanThompson welcomes kokito with a wet blanket from the tears of loneliness someone has felt for no apparent reason :)[02:57:49] <JonathanThompson> <--me being completely rnd() again[02:58:06] <kokito> where is everyone JonathanThompson? :P[02:58:20] <JonathanThompson> They stopped chatting right before you got online :)[02:58:24] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[02:58:44] * JonathanThompson notes kokito may be best nicknamed "The Harbinger of Silence"[02:59:37] <JonathanThompson> kokito, do you think the Zeta demise will help Haiku, hurt it, or be neutral?[03:00:33] *** Grackle has quit IRC[03:01:00] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[03:01:27] <kokito> I put a positive spin to everything, so I will say that it could encourage people to put their focus on Haiku which, obviously, is good for Haiku.[03:01:39] <JonathanThompson> :)[03:01:55] <JonathanThompson> That's a spinmeister's approach :)[03:02:43] <JonathanThompson> I could see that in a way, it'll help align everything to compatibility with Haiku/BeOS 5.03 and restart from there.[03:03:00] <JonathanThompson> Since I suspect there won't be any compatibility with Zeta-specific things put into Haiku.[03:04:02] <kokito> JonathanThompson, it is very debatable. A few years ago I used to think that ZETA could be a good intermediate step until Haiku was finished. my opinion changed a while later, and I saw Zeta more as divisive for the platform (as in, introducing incompatibilities)[03:04:09] <JonathanThompson> As long as Haiku has defects fixed in it that 5.03 had that caused people to code specific to Zeta, anyway, that'll help a lot.[03:05:35] * MrWGW wishes that Access would just donate the BeOS source code to Haiku and be done with it[03:06:12] * JonathanThompson wonders if MrWGW has ever seen BeOS source code and if he'd run in fright if he saw what was REALLY under the hood[03:06:49] <MrWGW> have you seen BeOS source code?[03:06:58] <JonathanThompson> ...[03:07:02] <kokito> MrWGW, it is very unlikely, to say the least. better forget about it, and focus on the Haiku code base.[03:07:52] <JonathanThompson> I know that if you run out of BViews you get dumped into the debugger with a message acknowledging "Run out of token space, I will crash now" (something to that effect) to know that there are gaping holes in error checking.[03:08:26] <MrWGW> I suspect that Haiku, when complete, will be better than BeOS anyway[03:08:29] <JonathanThompson> I also know from looking at the C++ GUI API for BeOS that the API and the way it is abstracted is quite cyclic, unfortunately.[03:08:43] <JonathanThompson> (the header files)[03:08:52] <MrWGW> I see myself using Haiku as my primary desktop when its done, and in the mean time using primarily Linux, with a bit of BSD, a token Mac, and some legacy Windows installs[03:09:07] <JonathanThompson> If in doubt, look at the friend class declarations in the header files and think about what that means.[03:11:06] <JonathanThompson> 6 classes are friend classes of BApplication directly as found in Application.h[03:11:40] <geist> that's because they are friendly[03:11:46] <JonathanThompson> :)[03:18:58] * JonathanThompson wonders if Haiku will still use all uppercase BMessage ID's that start with B instead of H to avoid risking old application compatibility issues[03:19:15] <geist> B_DONT_DO_THAT[03:19:54] *** Grackle has quit IRC[03:21:43] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[03:23:49] <fernandotcl> there's no reason to switch to H_ really[03:25:22] <fernandotcl> B_ is the kind of legacy that doesn't get on the way nor decreases performance in any way... so if isn't broken ,don't try to fix it[03:32:58] *** Minbari has quit IRC[03:33:27] *** Grackle has quit IRC[03:33:33] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[03:36:20] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[03:42:49] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC[03:53:12] *** phoswm has joined #haiku[03:53:39] <umccullough> _hugo, still there?[03:53:41] <_hugo> i am[03:54:00] <umccullough> sorry for the confusion earlier - what I meant was that every other boot i had problems pinging[03:54:24] <umccullough> right now it's working, but next time i boot, it might be broke again - i will 'arp' when it happens again and let you know what i see[03:54:29] <_hugo> when you do please check the arp table as well by running "arp" and check if any entry has "reject"[03:54:34] <_hugo> thanks[03:54:39] <umccullough> sounds good :)[03:56:37] *** MrWGW has left #haiku[04:01:34] <cizra> Why does Haiku use its own Jam?[04:02:31] *** jevin has quit IRC[04:02:46] *** jevin has joined #haiku[04:07:22] <geist> the default one has bugs apparently[04:07:34] *** santagada has quit IRC[04:07:37] <geist> and perforce apparently dropped support of it I think[04:08:05] <geist> got the ol p3 set up again for haiku testing[04:08:10] <cizra> There's the freetype version too..[04:08:21] <cizra> Haiku still freezes for me )=[04:08:27] <cizra> Shows the nice intro screen with the leaves[04:08:32] <cizra> then thinks for some time[04:08:40] <cizra> and then gets into an infinite loop or something.[04:08:41] <geist> i have problems with my core2, but I think it's ide related[04:08:43] *** migueld has joined #haiku[04:08:46] <geist> since it's generating tons of ide errors[04:08:56] <geist> cizra: need a serial trace of that to see what happened[04:09:15] <migueld> so when is half life 2 coming to haiku?[04:09:38] <_hugo> cizra: if you compile it with gcc 2.95 you can run it with qemu, if you really want to use gcc 4, vmware player runs it fine as well[04:09:49] <cizra> Erm.[04:09:53] <cizra> OK, I'll try then[04:09:59] <cizra> (because I only have qemu)[04:10:07] <cizra> It leaves the question[04:10:18] <cizra> why does only GCC 2 version work with qemu?[04:10:35] *** migueld has quit IRC[04:10:39] <_hugo> cizra: probably because somewhere gcc 4 is generating broken code[04:10:44] <geist> right[04:10:49] <_hugo> this is known to happen[04:10:55] <geist> or an optimization that no longer applies to 4[04:11:22] <cizra> ./configure --build-cross-tools ../buildtools/[04:11:24] <cizra> configure: error: werror: invalid feature name[04:11:25] * meianoite catches himself reimplementing linked lists[04:11:27] <meianoite> I hate myself.[04:12:15] <geist> hrm, getting ide timeouts on my p3 as well[04:12:40] *** absabs has joined #haiku[04:13:06] <geist> oh there we go. it recovered[04:14:55] <geist> man net_server is so lame[04:15:02] <geist> 5MB/sec to ftp this disk image to the beos box[04:15:11] <_hugo> geist: r5?[04:15:27] <geist> yeah, beosmax[04:15:46] <geist> and no, i dont want to apply the bone patches. i have problems with that[04:15:50] <_hugo> :-)[04:16:09] <geist> though i guess not on this box. it's from the beos era. dual p3 500[04:16:20] <_hugo> geist: how was it working at Be?[04:16:35] <geist> oh man, it was great[04:16:44] <_hugo> that great? :-)[04:17:53] <geist> well, it was great for me at the time. I was just an intern, just coming out of college[04:17:57] <geist> was a great learning experience[04:18:28] <_hugo> really sounds good[04:18:52] *** Grackle has quit IRC[04:18:54] <geist> hmm, what do i have to do to run telnetd?[04:18:59] <geist> if i just run it on the terminal it asplodes[04:19:01] <cizra> nc is easier[04:19:14] <_hugo> geist: telnetd in haiku isnt cooperating[04:19:51] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[04:20:11] <cizra> Will Haiku have sshd?[04:20:16] <_hugo> cizra: eventually[04:20:44] <geist> oh wow, lots more stuff on it now[04:20:48] <geist> vi, etc[04:23:46] <geist> hmm, gettin the wedged Terminal problem[04:23:56] <geist> would be nice to get telnetd working so I can get into the system from another vector[04:24:03] <geist> _hugo: do you know what in general the telnetd problem is?[04:24:16] <geist> i got[04:24:17] <geist> m_page_fault: vm_soft_fault returned error 'Permission denied' on fault at 0x83e58955, ip 0x83e58955, write 0, user 1, thread 0xc4[04:24:21] <geist> vm_page_fault: sending team "/bin/telnetd" 0xc4 SIGSEGV, ip 0x83e58955 ("???" +0x83e58955)[04:24:22] <_hugo> geist: the services support in net_server has an issue[04:24:25] <geist> debug_server: Thread 196 entered the debugger: Segment violation[04:24:26] <_hugo> oh[04:24:27] <geist> stack trace, current PC 0x83e58955 : (0x7ffe6e6c) 0x205300 main + 0x578 (0x7ffe6f6c) 0x202b53 _start + 0x4f (0x7ffe6fac) 0x1007ae (runtime_loader_seg0ro + 0x7ae)[04:24:30] <geist> debug_server: Killing team 196 (/bin/telnetd)[04:24:35] <_hugo> did you try to run it directly?[04:24:40] <geist> yes[04:24:45] <_hugo> it only works as a service[04:24:49] <geist> whyso?[04:24:50] <_hugo> it shouldnt crash anyway[04:24:57] <geist> define 'service'?[04:24:59] <_hugo> because it is silly and uses tcp wrappers[04:25:04] <_hugo> net_server service[04:25:13] <geist> like a loaded module?[04:25:20] <geist> i thought we didn't have a net_server anyway[04:25:33] <_hugo> not quite, net_server listens to the port and gives control to telnetd on new connections[04:25:37] <umccullough> of course we have net_server :D[04:25:38] <_hugo> but it isnt working for some reason yet[04:25:46] *** Grackle has quit IRC[04:25:48] <geist> eh? what? I thought the net stack was kernel mode[04:25:53] <_hugo> it is[04:26:01] <_hugo> net_server does management[04:26:14] <_hugo> IP, TCP, UDP etc is in kernel[04:26:20] <geist> ah. I had hacked socketd in newos for that[04:26:33] <geist> super ghetto, basically an inetd for a single socket[04:26:41] <umccullough> yay![04:26:44] <_hugo> :-)[04:26:48] <_hugo> still strange your telnetd crash though[04:27:05] <geist> it acts like it tried to reference crap > 0x8*[04:27:20] <geist> maybe it has a hard coded address swizzle logic that assumes it's mapped up there[04:27:41] <_hugo> when i tried it only replied with an error, ill check locally[04:27:59] <geist> yeah, gonna look into why Terminal hangs like this[04:28:09] <geist> though it may be an entirely high level problem wiht app_server[04:28:25] <_hugo> telnetd: getpeername: Invalid argument[04:28:30] <_hugo> doesn't crash the kernel here[04:28:37] <geist> oh no, it didn't crash the kernel either[04:28:41] <_hugo> ahh[04:28:46] <geist> that was just what it dumped on the kernel debug[04:29:02] <_hugo> when i saw vm_page_faults i thought it had crashed the kernel[04:29:42] <_hugo> yes, getting the same output[04:30:10] <geist> ah, I see. the terminal deadlocked with itself[04:30:22] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[04:30:24] <_hugo> that doesn't sound good[04:30:52] <geist> 2 of the three terminal sems are holdin a sem caleld 'Terminal Settings'[04:31:06] <geist> one of them is holding it and inside it's queue, so it's deadlocked with itself[04:31:18] <_hugo> ugh. :-)[04:34:31] <geist> ah, that crash is on a call to _exit()[04:34:44] <geist> right after it calls getpeername (and fails)[04:34:56] <geist> i wonder if _exit is implemented properly...[04:35:07] <_hugo> it is, it wasnt crashing before.[04:35:21] <_hugo> ill try to bisect it later[04:36:51] * _hugo loves git-bisect[04:41:10] *** phoswm has quit IRC[04:43:09] <geist> hmm, inside the _exit routine it does call a function pointer that is supposed to have been set up by then[04:43:12] <geist> checking that[04:44:43] <geist> yup, that's it[04:44:56] <geist> _IO_cleanup is for whatever reason set to that 0x8xxxx address[04:45:28] <_hugo> hm, maybe it is trashed somewhere. dont remember any commits in that area[04:45:34] *** stargater_ has joined #haiku[04:46:21] <cizra> OK[04:46:26] <geist> oh man, figuring out when it's supposed to be set up is gonna be fun[04:46:29] <cizra> Haiku does the SAME with GCC 2.9 and 4[04:46:35] <cizra> that is, freezes qemu.[04:46:38] <geist> there appear to be like 3 places that set that variable[04:46:53] <geist> cizra: 'freeze' isn't helpful. we have to get a serial trace of the kernel to see wha tit was doing[04:48:36] <cizra> How do I get it?[04:48:42] <cizra> And should I go back to GCC 4?[04:49:16] <_hugo> cizra: man qemu. check -serial[04:49:37] <geist> and no, dont go back to gcc 4[04:49:45] <_hugo> cizra: -serial file:serial.txt[04:49:48] <geist> gcc 4 isn't the preferred development environment for haiku[04:51:00] <cizra> bfs: bfs_open_dir:1448: Invalid Argument[04:51:07] <_hugo> cizra: thats ok[04:51:11] *** knoedel has joined #haiku[04:51:21] <_hugo> cizra: just put the serial.txt in somewhere we can get it[04:52:42] <cizra> http://pastebin.ca/442236[04:53:57] <_hugo> it seems it hands during vesa init[04:54:11] <_hugo> vesa: vesa_init() completed was expected next[04:54:21] <geist> ugh[04:55:14] <geist> oh yay, there's a real ftp client now in haiku[04:55:23] <geist> so I can easily fetch new copies of binaries to test with[04:56:05] <_hugo> vesa could be getting screwed in a create_area() or a get_memory_map()[04:56:21] <_hugo> the get_memory_map() shouldnt bork i guess, just a single page[04:57:22] <_hugo> well, get_boot_info could be borked as well[04:57:29] <_hugo> get_boot_item actually[04:57:53] <_hugo> ill add debugging in a bit, need to finish something first[04:59:46] *** knoedel has quit IRC[05:00:59] *** stargater has quit IRC[05:02:05] <geist> oh hah, I see the problem[05:02:14] <geist> in one part of libroot, someone declares __IO_cleanup as a pointer[05:02:23] <geist> in another place, it was instanced as a function[05:02:26] <_hugo> ah[05:02:31] <geist> guess what the first 4 bytes of the IO_cleanup function is?[05:02:38] <_hugo> 0x8000*[05:02:39] <geist> 0x83e58955[05:02:43] <_hugo> :-)[05:03:41] <geist> it looks like fallout from the way we've apparently glued glibc and some BSD libc libs together[05:05:47] *** jevin has quit IRC[05:05:52] *** the_webers_inc has quit IRC[05:06:24] *** the_webers_inc has joined #haiku[05:07:01] *** jevin has joined #haiku[05:16:49] *** fernandotcl has quit IRC[05:17:44] <meianoite> when I grow up I'd like to be just like you two[05:17:50] * meianoite admires geist and _hugo[05:17:57] <geist> found the _exit problem[05:18:07] <geist> bascially there is two sets of stdio code in the tree, only one is being build[05:18:18] <geist> in one of them, _IO_cleanup is a function pointer, in the other it's a function[05:18:29] <geist> in the _exit implementation, axel chose the wrong one :)[05:18:36] <_hugo> ups :-)[05:18:50] <geist> and since it's not declared in a header anywhere, he had to just stuff a local definition of it above the call[05:20:09] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20719 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (TCPEndpoint.cpp TCPEndpoint.h tcp.cpp tcp.h): support RFC 1323's TCP Timestamps (we are still not updating our estimator though).[05:20:42] <CIA-17> geist * r20720 /haiku/trunk/src/system/libroot/posix/unistd/_exit.c:[05:20:42] <CIA-17> fix a bug in _exit() that called the _IO_cleanup routine as if it was[05:20:42] <CIA-17> a function pointer, which it isn't.[05:20:42] <CIA-17> The mistake was probably made because there appears to be multiple stdio implementations[05:20:42] <CIA-17> in the tree (BSD and glibc) so it's easy to look at the wrong code. Perhaps[05:20:43] <CIA-17> we should clean that up.[05:22:17] <_hugo> re-linking everything, eheh[05:22:24] <geist> yeah, sorry bout that[05:22:30] <_hugo> no problem :-)[05:22:31] <geist> good ol libroot tends to do that[05:22:49] <geist> anyhoo, i should probably finish up the new memcpy and new syscall implementations i was working o a while back[05:23:42] <_hugo> ill try to check what is wrong with vesa and qemu[05:25:03] <_hugo> geist: btw, just to confirm that telnetd now exits correctly. nice catch[05:26:10] <TheDave> there's a funky error in my build-log, "cc1: error: unknown flag "-quote"(free translation from swedish)"[05:26:19] <TheDave> *-iquote[05:26:35] <TheDave> somewhere around bfs_shell[05:26:51] <_hugo> TheDave: what compiler version are you using?[05:26:56] <TheDave> 2.95[05:27:12] <TheDave> cross compilation on linux[05:27:14] <_hugo> TheDave: i would say something in your build is borked. try to re-run ./configure[05:27:24] <_hugo> with the appropriate flags[05:27:30] <TheDave> will do :)[05:28:03] *** vision has joined #haiku[05:28:06] <vision> nifty[05:28:10] <TheDave> jam is scary, totally new territory for me[05:28:12] *** vision is now known as geist2[05:28:24] <geist2> this like, actually works[05:28:29] <_hugo> geist2: :-)[05:28:36] <TheDave> yays[05:28:50] <TheDave> hmm, how close to selfhosting is haiku now?[05:29:07] <_hugo> there are still some issues to resolve before we can compile big stuff under haiku[05:29:09] <TheDave> is it even worth trying?[05:29:14] <geist2> once we can get the kernel stable enough to actually run gcc again and again it should be doable[05:29:19] <TheDave> ahh[05:29:25] <geist2> but as of right now it blows up after a bit[05:29:30] <geist2> something i want to look into[05:29:31] *** geist2 has quit IRC[05:29:42] <_hugo> cizra: around?[05:29:47] <cizra> yea[05:29:58] <_hugo> cizra: try running qemu with -net none[05:30:07] <_hugo> it seems it is etherpci all over again[05:30:20] <geist> doesn't help that gcc and make use fork() a lot, which is a totally complicated pain in the ass routine[05:30:43] *** the_webers_inc has quit IRC[05:31:16] <TheDave> just curious really, can't run r5 on this machine and cross-compilation is a pain in the rear[05:33:35] <cizra> _hugo: works[05:33:37] <TheDave> build still fails[05:34:39] <_hugo> cizra: good to know. ill try to check what is wrong with etherpci[05:34:53] <_hugo> TheDave: something is wrong in your tree, i would advice refetching[05:35:06] <geist> yeah, cross compliation works fine here[05:35:16] <geist> quite fast. I can do a clean build in about 15 minutes on this linux box[05:35:41] <TheDave> _hugo: done that three times already[05:36:00] <_hugo> TheDave: strange. what ./configure options are you using?[05:36:12] <geist> and what is the setup of the host machine?[05:36:18] *** jevin has quit IRC[05:36:19] <TheDave> ./configure --build-cross-tools ../buildtools[05:36:42] <geist> I assume it's x86-32?[05:36:47] <TheDave> yup[05:36:54] <geist> what gcc version does it have?[05:37:01] <geist> what is the distro?[05:37:02] <TheDave> linux 2.6, gcc4 and gcc-3.4[05:37:08] <TheDave> feisty fawn[05:37:09] <geist> which gcc 4?[05:37:22] <TheDave> 4.1.2[05:37:27] <_hugo> TheDave: i have the same[05:37:30] <_hugo> and it works[05:37:52] <geist> hmm, damn no idea[05:38:00] <_hugo> so maybe your buildtools dir is screwed? did you try to refetch that as well?[05:38:04] <geist> the usual mistake is to use another version of jam[05:38:15] <TheDave> when i did the refetching i got both trees[05:38:19] <geist> but it generally doesn't manifest that way[05:38:39] <_hugo> the standard jam would probably complain about the number of targets[05:38:40] <TheDave> i installed jam according to the instructions on the site[05:38:45] <geist> what does jam -v say?[05:38:54] <TheDave> Jam 2.5-haiku-20060813. OS=LINUX. Copyright 1993-2002 Christopher Seiwald.[05:39:03] <geist> yup, that's the right one[05:39:16] <TheDave> should be, it's the only version I've installed :)[05:40:05] <geist> i dont have precisely the same setup (gentoo), so I can't really compare[05:40:08] <TheDave> nothing else out of the ordinary, pretty much just installed the tools needed to build haiku's toolchain[05:40:20] <geist> but I've set it up on multiple gentoo boxen, and they've all worked (except x86-64 and ppc boxes)[05:40:23] <_hugo> i have the same setup and haven't had problems. i dont update the buildtools for some time now though[05:41:19] <TheDave> guess i'm just unlucky :)[05:41:33] <_hugo> TheDave: i would expect a better explanation than that :-)[05:42:03] <TheDave> yeah, know the feeling[05:42:11] <TheDave> been at it for the last few days[05:43:14] <TheDave> starting to drive me nuts[05:43:24] <geist> can you paste the build log somewhere?[05:44:01] <TheDave> sure, hang on[05:46:46] <TheDave> hmm, pastebin's borked[05:46:59] <TheDave> any other site i can use?[05:47:25] <cizra> pastie.caboo.se[05:47:26] <cizra> rafb.net/paste[05:47:45] <cizra> I have Feisty[05:47:46] <TheDave> thanks[05:48:34] <TheDave> http://pastie.caboo.se/54089[05:48:49] <TheDave> here's the output from jam[05:49:26] <_hugo> TheDave: cant you run it with LANG=C please?[05:49:33] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[05:49:36] <TheDave> sure[05:50:12] <_hugo> i cant really read swedish :-)[05:50:18] <_hugo> im not sure gcc uses LANG or LANGUAGE though[05:50:33] <TheDave> it's LANG, just forgot about it the last time :)[05:51:00] <TheDave> http://pastie.caboo.se/54090[05:51:29] <_hugo> TheDave: is your default gcc version 3.4?[05:51:36] <TheDave> nope[05:52:20] <_hugo> why is it using gcc-3.4?[05:52:22] <TheDave> unfortunatly i'm stuck with using gcc4 by default, but when i built the toolchain it looked like gcc-3.4 was found and used[05:52:56] <_hugo> TheDave: can you paste the contents of your build/BuildConfig please?[05:53:09] <geist> ah, that sounds suspicious[05:53:11] <_hugo> that should be inside generated/ btw[05:53:23] <geist> my guess is the linux bits are assuming gcc 4[05:54:14] <TheDave> http://pastie.caboo.se/54091[05:54:21] <geist> and lo and behold, -iquote was added in gcc 3.5 (which i guess means gcc 4.0)[05:54:36] <TheDave> whoop-die-effing-doo[05:55:03] <_hugo> hm[05:55:24] <_hugo> TheDave: what is the output of gcc --version?[05:55:41] <TheDave> still 4.1.2[05:56:08] <TheDave> but i removed gcc-3.4 so i'm gonna try rebuilding the toolchain[05:56:23] <_hugo> gcc-3.4 should be referenced somewhere though[05:56:25] <geist> dont rebuild the toolchain yet[05:56:32] <TheDave> sure[05:56:40] <geist> now that you removed 3.4, does it still try to use it?[05:56:54] <TheDave> yuop[05:57:07] <geist> and now i guess it blows up since ther eis no gcc-3.4?[05:57:12] <TheDave> indeed[05:57:25] <geist> if you go into generated/[05:57:35] <geist> and grep -r gcc-3.4 . do you get anything?[05:58:50] <TheDave> it shows up three times as not found in binutils' config.log[05:59:15] <geist> weird.[05:59:22] <_hugo> indeed[05:59:27] <geist> well, I guess try blowing away generated/ and rebuild the toolchain[05:59:36] <geist> if it's not physically present on your box, it shouldn't pick it up[05:59:41] <TheDave> will do[05:59:52] <geist> it's obviously seriously confused. I found the rule to use -iquote, and it specifically tests for the gcc version[06:00:02] <geist> it obviously thinks it's using 4.1.2[06:00:10] <TheDave> moments like these I really appreciate having a speedy box[06:00:22] <geist> yeah[06:00:43] <TheDave> still bombs after nuking generated[06:01:09] <geist> wha? it failed building the toolchain?[06:01:13] <TheDave> yup[06:01:16] <geist> paste it[06:01:40] <TheDave> gonna try from a new shell[06:01:45] <geist> good idea[06:02:14] <TheDave> now it builds[06:02:36] <TheDave> must've exported some CC variable somewhere[06:02:51] <_hugo> ETHER_DEBUG(FUNCTION, data->debug, kDevName ": open %s dev=%x\n", name, data);[06:02:59] <_hugo> this line, as many others in the driver[06:03:02] <_hugo> etherpci[06:03:15] <_hugo> this specific one is borking etherpci in qemu[06:03:19] <_hugo> which makes no sense[06:03:44] <geist> unless name is null[06:03:48] <geist> or data is null[06:03:58] <_hugo> even if those were null, which they are not[06:04:01] <geist> or whatever it does to data->debug[06:04:02] <_hugo> they would be printed as (nil)[06:04:14] *** jevin has joined #haiku[06:04:17] <_hugo> even if those were bad they would make it crash, not hang[06:04:30] <_hugo> other similiar lines further ahead work nicely[06:04:32] <geist> perhaps, though there may be some weird interaction that early[06:05:21] <geist> a totally bogus name string may hose it[06:05:41] <_hugo> the name is good, and is required in this function for it to complete (which it does, if i comment that line out)[06:07:25] <geist> on an unrelated note: http://community.livejournal.com/warhistory/844960.html[06:07:30] <geist> Kursk submarine pics[06:08:09] <_hugo> did they recover it?[06:08:16] <geist> yeah[06:08:17] <_hugo> well, seems so[06:08:43] <TheDave> recently i'm guessing?[06:11:00] <geist> a few years ago[06:11:38] <TheDave> it's been that long? feels like it happened last summer or something[06:13:17] <geist> 2001 was when it was raised[06:13:54] <geist> i think these pictures were from a later salvage[06:13:57] <geist> maybe recently[06:16:22] <TheDave> wikipedia says that the last recovery was in june 2002.[06:16:30] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[06:16:32] <TheDave> time flies when you're growing older :)[06:24:11] <TheDave> *sob* still freezes at bootup[06:24:40] <geist> but it fully builds?[06:25:09] <TheDave> yup, looks like the errant CC variable was the cause of the mess[06:25:14] <TheDave> thanks for all the help btw[06:27:48] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20721 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/network/etherpci/etherpci.c: made ETHER_DEBUG use dprintf() as the previous logic was screwing badly and making the boot sequence hang in some setups (specifically qemu, may have fixed issues with Parallels as well).[06:27:58] <_hugo> cizra: please try the latest revision without -net none[06:28:33] <cizra> KO[06:28:34] <cizra> OK[06:28:47] <cizra> Should I also rebuild buildtools?[06:28:51] <_hugo> no[06:29:12] <cizra> OK, let's try it.[06:30:44] <umccullough> _hugo, yes, it says "reject" on my gateway when i run arp[06:31:26] <_hugo> umccullough: try updating to a newer revision please, >= 20712[06:31:35] <umccullough> _hugo, ok :)[06:31:42] <cizra> _hugo: the same[06:31:43] <cizra> no luck[06:31:56] <cizra> ooh, no[06:32:06] <cizra> ...skipped <HaikuImage>haiku.image-copy-files-dummy-beos/system/add-ons/Screen Savers for lack of Haiku...[06:32:09] <cizra> ...failed updating 1 target(s)...[06:32:24] <cizra> ...skipped haiku.image for lack of <HaikuImage>haiku.image-copy-files...[06:32:25] <_hugo> cizra: run jam again[06:33:00] <cizra> the same[06:33:16] <_hugo> which the same? qemu or build failure?[06:33:24] <cizra> build, I guess.[06:33:52] <TheDave> is it the same freeze I have, where it just hangs at the blue screen with a frozen cursor?[06:34:07] <_hugo> cizra: run jam clean and then rebuild[06:34:12] <cizra> No, it doesn't show a blue screen, TheDave[06:34:21] <cizra> doing[06:34:26] <TheDave> ah, i see[06:34:29] <_hugo> TheDave: in what setup do you get that hang? in a VM?[06:34:34] <TheDave> qemu[06:34:47] <_hugo> which qemu version?[06:34:55] <TheDave> 0.9.0[06:34:59] <umccullough> kqemu?[06:35:02] <TheDave> nope[06:35:15] <_hugo> TheDave: are you waiting? it takes a bit to load[06:35:27] <TheDave> the cpu meter flatlines[06:35:34] <TheDave> as in no activity[06:35:43] <geist> oh man jam is a piece of shit[06:35:44] <TheDave> and i have waited, just to be sure :)[06:35:52] <geist> i have found no way to filter out strings in jam variables[06:35:56] <_hugo> TheDave: just tried the latest revision built with 2.95 here, and it works[06:35:59] <geist> you can add to variables, but you can't actually remove[06:36:14] <umccullough> geist, seriously? you must be missing something, no?[06:36:19] <geist> looking in the docs[06:36:20] <geist> can't find it[06:36:23] <umccullough> i haven't looked into jam of course :P[06:36:41] <_hugo> geist: what are you trying to remove? maybe reset it to a new value?[06:36:50] <TheDave> qemu's asleep and eating up my memory :P[06:37:23] <geist> i was trying to do something i did in newos[06:37:37] <geist> which is have the libc string jam file start off by trying to build all the .c files[06:37:48] <geist> and then have a rule (per arch) that overrides it for .S files[06:37:49] <_hugo> TheDave: im using qemu 0.8.2 though[06:38:03] <_hugo> geist: ah[06:38:18] <geist> wiht make it's trivial. $(filter ...)[06:38:26] <TheDave> heh, my system must be cursed[06:38:44] <cizra> Maybe there's a poltergeist or something?[06:38:59] <TheDave> that would explain a lot methinks[06:39:03] <umccullough> TheDave, what host OS?[06:39:10] <umccullough> not that it should matter[06:39:11] <TheDave> lunix[06:39:27] <umccullough> just curious :)[06:39:34] <TheDave> or loonix, or linux or whatever the flavour of the day is :P[06:39:53] <_hugo> hugo at europa:~/build/haiku-gcc2 dot 95$ dpkg -S `which qemu`[06:39:53] <_hugo> qemu: /usr/bin/qemu[06:40:03] <_hugo> TheDave: try the packaged qemu[06:40:10] <TheDave> same there[06:40:21] <TheDave> that's why i built it from source. figured it might help[06:40:32] <_hugo> now i find it strange[06:40:40] <geist> well, I'll have to do it another way[06:40:54] <_hugo> TheDave: what command options are you using?[06:41:17] <TheDave> qemu -m 512 haiku.image[06:41:24] <_hugo> TheDave: try without the -m[06:41:28] <TheDave> tried it with -net none as well but no change[06:41:35] <TheDave> same thing without -m[06:42:33] <_hugo> if i run haiku.image with qemu here, i get to a terminal after around 5-6 secs of blue screen[06:43:01] <TheDave> terminal as in safe mode or terminal as in the app?[06:43:06] <_hugo> considering how qemu works, i find it very strange if you dont get the same[06:43:09] <umccullough> old docs from the wiki say:[06:43:10] <umccullough> $ qemu -hda /path/to/haiku.image -m 512[06:43:12] <_hugo> terminal as in the app[06:43:29] <_hugo> im using $ qemu -hda haiku.image[06:43:36] <_hugo> just tried with -m 512 and it works as well[06:43:44] <umccullough> without defaults to 128mb[06:43:49] <umccullough> which is actually enough[06:43:57] <umccullough> also: $ qemu -hda /path/to/haiku.image -serial stdio[06:43:58] <_hugo> yes. i always run with 128mb only[06:44:00] <_hugo> in vmware as well[06:44:11] <TheDave> it loads to the blue screen and then the cpu-usage just drops to idle[06:44:29] <umccullough> TheDave, maybe run with the serial output and see where it stops[06:45:26] <TheDave> register_domain(4, link) with net and vesa.accelerant without[06:46:40] <_hugo> ps2_hid kicks in here after those[06:49:17] <umccullough> TheDave, does f12 work at that point?[06:49:59] <umccullough> i.e. it should dump you into KDL[06:50:06] <TheDave> yup[06:50:13] *** ChrisHJW has joined #haiku[06:50:27] <umccullough> well, that's good at least[06:50:31] <umccullough> so, the VM isn't hung[06:50:37] <TheDave> yeah[06:51:16] <cizra> Compiling.. compiling.. compiling...[06:51:19] <umccullough> at that point, i wouldn't know what to try though... maybe dr_evil or axeld would be able to help[06:52:03] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[06:52:08] <TheDave> maybe[06:52:41] <TheDave> heh, system debuggers are so far outside my comfort-zone it's not even funny :)[06:53:29] <umccullough> TheDave, the only useful thing I get from them is a stack trace ;)[06:53:44] <umccullough> too low level for poor me :([06:54:24] <TheDave> atleast you're a kernel coder. the only thing i'm good for when it comes to system development is testing :)[06:54:36] <umccullough> so far my Haiku webserver has had what... 5.7% uptime?[06:54:45] <umccullough> i'm no kernel coder[06:54:51] <umccullough> i'm not even a haiku coder ;)[06:54:51] <TheDave> or system coder[06:54:58] <_hugo> TheDave: ill try to help more tomorrow, too tired now[06:55:01] <_hugo> im off to rest[06:55:04] <umccullough> i write C# for a living![06:55:08] <TheDave> you know what a stack trace is, that's more than i do :)[06:55:12] <umccullough> later _hugo[06:55:17] <TheDave> _hugo: thanks for the help[06:55:18] <umccullough> heh[06:55:19] <_hugo> see you guys tomorrow[06:55:21] <TheDave> managed code ftw[06:55:46] <umccullough> managed code is too easy though...[06:56:31] <umccullough> I need to get my hands dirty more often[06:56:42] <TheDave> it gets the job done[06:56:49] <umccullough> reminds me, i need to brush up on Haiku codestyle[06:56:50] <TheDave> personally i'm more of a hardware hacker[06:57:00] <umccullough> EE?[06:57:58] <TheDave> i guess you can call it that[06:58:07] <umccullough> as in circuits and stuffs?[06:58:12] <TheDave> i call it "maniac with a soldering iron"[06:58:19] <umccullough> fair enough :)[06:58:24] <cizra> Yeah, those glass bulbs with funny stuff inside and 5 legs beneath?[06:58:30] <TheDave> hehe[06:59:22] <umccullough> i etched a few of my own boards years ago...[06:59:43] <TheDave> that's a fun hobby, what was the occasion?[06:59:46] <umccullough> still have a couple gallons of muriatic acid in the garage ;)[06:59:52] <geist> ARGH I HATE JAM[06:59:59] <umccullough> um... satellite TV gadgets ;)[07:00:10] <umccullough> as in, the kind you can't buy[07:00:13] <umccullough> legally[07:00:27] <TheDave> as in not-pay-per-view?[07:00:41] <umccullough> i actually have a few smart card reader/writers lying around that i've built[07:00:52] <umccullough> some stream loggers[07:00:54] <umccullough> etc.[07:00:57] <TheDave> fun[07:01:10] <umccullough> don't mess with it any more though :P[07:01:11] <TheDave> isn't that scene pretty dead nowadays?[07:01:16] <umccullough> i shouldn't talk about it in this channel anyhow[07:01:32] <JonathanThompson> What did JAM do to you tonight, geist?[07:01:41] <umccullough> yeah, they really cracked down on it 2001-2002ish[07:01:48] * JonathanThompson suspects he was sandwiched between error conditions[07:02:17] <umccullough> funny, "TheDave" reminds me of those days ;)[07:02:43] * JonathanThompson wonders if " TheDave " is of any relation to "Super Dave"[07:02:43] <TheDave> hehe, it's a nick I stole from Top Gear[07:03:06] <TheDave> closer relation to "The Stig" i suspect[07:03:32] <umccullough> "# Direct TV, nicknamed "Dave" by illegal Satellite hackers"[07:03:45] <cizra> _hugo: works[07:03:48] <cizra> ^^[07:03:51] <TheDave> umccullough: ah[07:04:06] <geist> damnit, the fucking jam rules dont let you specify subdirs in them[07:04:21] <geist> so i have to invent some really overblown shit to build one goddamn file[07:05:16] <TheDave> speaking of Jam, is "jam -a" the equivalent of "make clean" ?[07:05:29] <meianoite> and there was I, wondering whether I'd better moderate my use of strong language[07:05:32] <umccullough> i think -a stands for 'all'[07:05:34] * JonathanThompson detects geist is turning green and is doing his best imitation of David Banner right before transforming[07:05:49] <geist> pretty much[07:05:51] <umccullough> jam clean is the equiv. of make clean[07:06:11] <Teknomancer> hi JonathanThompson[07:06:22] <TheDave> umccullough: figures :)[07:06:23] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, the webserver is down for maintenance ;)[07:06:27] * JonathanThompson attacks Teknomancer with a warped welcome[07:06:38] * TheDave is way too used to grepping Makefiles[07:07:04] <geist> grrr, now if i remove a file from the build list (memcpy.c in this case)[07:07:08] <geist> it bitches at me that it can't find a rule for it[07:07:13] <geist> no shit, I DONT WANT YOU TO BUILD IT[07:09:32] * umccullough hands geist some valium[07:10:08] <TheDave> sounds like someone needs a beer[07:10:09] <TheDave> :)[07:10:20] * cizra teases geist with make, pulling it out of his mouth right before he clamps his jaws shut.[07:10:26] * umccullough goes to get himself a beer[07:10:35] <umccullough> oh... you didn't mean me did you...[07:11:07] *** mazon is now known as Mazon[07:11:28] <TheDave> you can have one too, it's on me :P[07:11:59] * umccullough sips another heineken[07:12:46] <geist> well, I'll have to go with the backup solution and always build all of the files[07:12:47] * kokito now understands why umccullough's server is down[07:13:11] <geist> and than have a dumb header file trickery that decides to conditionally #ifdef the code on and off[07:13:12] <umccullough> kokito, heh[07:13:29] <umccullough> the server is down cuz.... hugo told me to update it ;)[07:13:34] <umccullough> he broke it :D[07:15:04] <kokito> :P[07:16:31] <umccullough> actually, he fixed something --- but... well, i have to blame someone[07:18:17] <TheDave> hey, that's what devs are for :)[07:18:32] * umccullough prays that osnews doesn't post a link to his Haiku webserver[07:18:49] * kokito has already submitted the link...[07:18:51] <umccullough> i hope OSNews doesn't even pick up that newsbite actually, it's really not all that noteworthy[07:18:54] <umccullough> DOH![07:19:05] * umccullough adds kokito to his list[07:19:13] <TheDave> that's sort of like getting the crabs[07:19:13] * kokito is juts kidding[07:19:15] <cizra> Somebody please tell _hugo when he wakes up that it works for me now.[07:19:28] <umccullough> cizra, full rebuild did it?[07:19:35] <TheDave> everyone gets it but it's not something you'd advertise :)[07:20:18] <cizra> umccullough: Well, yeah. SVN update and then the rebuild[07:20:19] <umccullough> um... not everyone gets it ;)[07:20:41] <TheDave> that's what those who have it say :P[07:20:51] <umccullough> cizra, coolies - hopefully you shouldn't have to jam clean very often - usually it only rebuilds what has changed without problems[07:21:07] <stargater_> http://leszekllelectronics.blogspot.com/2007/04/erstes-englisches-tutorial.html[07:21:20] *** stargater_ is now known as stargater[07:21:42] <kokito> stargater, this is the interesting link > http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-2008513940874112547[07:22:29] <umccullough> yeah, leszek posted that link earlier[07:22:32] <umccullough> this morning[07:22:58] * JonathanThompson wonders if the OSNews people will find "OSNews" and associated stuff from the online log and post it unexpectedly :)[07:23:54] <TheDave> does anyone take that blog seriously anymore?[07:24:06] <umccullough> osnews?[07:24:09] <TheDave> yah[07:24:24] <umccullough> i read it... i like to recommend and comment on Haiku articles mostly[07:24:25] <JonathanThompson> It's "Junk Food for the Mind"[07:24:48] <TheDave> it used to be really nice but now it's a dreary rant about linux and how evil proprietary software is[07:25:09] <umccullough> I like to think i bring the intellegence level almost back up to a positive number when i post[07:25:10] <meianoite> it's a cool place to chill. whenever you feel like bashing M$ or complaining how every other news is about Ubuntu[07:25:31] <umccullough> TheDave, really, it's not all that linuxy i don't think[07:25:47] <TheDave> meianoite: you mean digg or slashdot? ;)[07:25:48] <meianoite> the pissing contests are always great, though[07:25:57] <meianoite> TheDave I actually mean OSNews proper[07:26:32] <TheDave> guess i'm just tired of mindless fanatism[07:26:35] <meianoite> I have this morbid curiosity that prompts me to watch how every distro user loves to brag about it[07:26:41] <meianoite> and trash the other distro[07:26:51] <meianoite> and they all unite to trash either Mac OS X or Windows[07:26:58] <umccullough> TheDave, yes... the fanaticism even affects haiku-related comments :([07:27:03] <meianoite> then the occasional guy jumps in and attempts to defend either[07:27:11] <meianoite> normally the Mac guys tend to succeed[07:27:14] <TheDave> i run OS X, Vista and GNU/Linux[07:27:29] <stargater> hi kokito thx :-)[07:27:36] <meianoite> the Windows guys get so cornered they just pack their stuff and flee[07:27:37] <kokito> hey stargater[07:27:43] <TheDave> i like them all very much but for different reasons, i'm just tired of people whining about them[07:28:09] <stargater> and now i understand icon o matic :-)[07:28:32] <TheDave> it's an os for chrissake, use what you like and be done with it. it's not like you have to validate your choice by bashing everyone else :)[07:28:51] <stargater> kokito, have you see my ne haiku screenshots ?[07:29:16] <stargater> kokito, -> http://tm.kaldience.com/data/php/dir.php?dir=/dir/members/stargater/bilder/haiku_shots/HAIKU_rev20710[07:29:54] <meianoite> guys, do any of you know any trick to make GDB print data using big endian byte order?[07:30:37] <TheDave> wow, the icons look really great[07:31:22] <umccullough> heh, Jorge is still listed as a team lead? - i thought i saw a commit where he was moved to contributors[07:31:29] <kokito> this one looks nice! http://tm.kaldience.com/dir/members/stargater/bilder/haiku_shots/HAIKU_rev20710/screen2.png[07:31:59] <kokito> must be an old build umccullough[07:32:12] <umccullough> 20710 is like today[07:32:36] <umccullough> kernel date is 4/15 ;)[07:32:46] *** kr1stof has left #haiku[07:32:49] <umccullough> bbiab[07:32:50] <kokito> well, I have not changed my mind, so don't know what happened :)[07:35:18] <stargater> :-)[07:35:41] <stargater> stippi is a good artist and app developer[07:39:08] <stargater> kokito, after GSOC came the GOSC 8 stdents in haiku about ? GOSC 2007 \n special THX to Google \n stduent name 1 : GSOC_work descripten \n ...(1-8)[07:39:37] <stargater> stduent = student[07:43:56] <kokito> stargater, must be late and my brain must be tired, but I am not sure I understand what you mean... :)[07:46:53] *** mats| has quit IRC[07:47:06] <TheDave> time to hit the sack, my brain stops functioning in daylight :)[07:47:11] <TheDave> nighty night y'all[07:50:26] * meianoite requests the help of ANYONE, ANYONE AT ALL, with GDB experience. please? :)[07:50:43] <geist> okay, think i finally got this arch-specific memcpy stuff to build[07:51:01] <geist> there were about 5 places in our build system where we poke directly into libc directory to just build parts of it[07:51:05] <geist> which is terribly nasty[07:52:08] <kokito> good night guys[07:52:27] <meianoite> 'nite, kokito[07:56:00] *** meianoite has quit IRC[07:58:04] *** Mazon is now known as mazon[08:08:34] *** kokito has quit IRC[08:14:14] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[08:14:15] <miqlas> re[08:17:07] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[08:17:16] <CIA-17> geist * r20722 /haiku/trunk/src/system/ (13 files in 9 dirs):[08:17:16] <CIA-17> Turn the assembly optimized memcpy (simple rep movsd) back on for x86. Had to[08:17:16] <CIA-17> hack around the make system a bit, and the result is pretty nasty, specifically[08:17:16] <CIA-17> due to the amount of places in the system where various targets poke their[08:17:16] <CIA-17> fingers into the libroot directory.[08:17:17] <CIA-17> The solution is less than optimal, but should work for now.[08:20:57] *** silverpower has quit IRC[08:23:04] *** ChrisHJW has quit IRC[08:25:13] *** silverpower has joined #haiku[08:27:20] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[08:44:06] *** mazon is now known as Mazon[08:48:37] <CIA-17> geist * r20723 /haiku/trunk/src/system/kernel/ (arch/x86/arch_cpu.c arch/x86/arch_x86.S vm/vm.cpp): asm optimized user_memcpy(), which should help somewhat, since the old version was a byte-by-byte copy.[08:52:39] *** wildur has quit IRC[08:57:58] *** [Katisu] has quit IRC[09:07:55] *** slaine_ has joined #haiku[09:12:45] *** [Katisu] has joined #haiku[09:31:22] *** JBurton has joined #haiku[09:31:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o JBurton[09:31:26] <JBurton> hi all[09:32:22] <stargater> hi JBurton[09:32:54] <stargater> bbl[09:33:16] * JonathanThompson isn't certain if he just had an encounter on a Seattle street at 12:15 a.m. with a homeless woman wanting to keep warm, a woman that was horny as all get out but was looking for a new man to date, or a hooker being paranoid about cops, or a woman wanting to rob him[09:33:53] *** myob has joined #haiku[09:34:28] <JonathanThompson> Maybe that'll encourage me to not drive in Seattle after midnight, but then again, maybe not![09:35:16] <JBurton> hi stargater[09:35:18] <JBurton> hi JonathanThompson[09:35:19] <myob> ooh, JT got carjacked?[09:35:20] <myob> :P[09:35:28] <JonathanThompson> No, but it had me wondering :)[09:36:38] <JonathanThompson> I don't know if she wanted to rob me of my car, my money, nt car and money, or my virginity, or all of the above....[09:36:56] <JonathanThompson> Or if she just wanted a warm place for a bit.[09:38:17] <JonathanThompson> If I were to be carjacked, it'd likely be because they wanted a reliable car that blended in with too many others on the street, or wanted to grab the car to commit a crime for the same reason.[09:38:22] <myob> not many women prowl the streets loking for 30+ virgins...[09:38:31] <JonathanThompson> While it may retain resale value fairly well, it is a very mundane car.[09:38:50] <geist> hrm, got some funny deadlock int he VM[09:38:53] <JonathanThompson> I doubt she could determine that by looking at me at 12:15 a.m. :P[09:39:11] <geist> sure looks to me like someone acquired a sem with a write count and released it with a read count[09:39:22] <geist> or someone extraneously acquired it with read, etc[09:39:25] <JonathanThompson> For all I know, she was an undercover cop looking to catch guys looking for hookers.[09:39:38] <geist> sounds like it's time to write a better debugging rw_lock[09:40:44] <JonathanThompson> I was a bit surprised when I rolled down my window to understand what she was trying to mouth, when she asked, "Are you dating?" and then asked, "Would you like to?" and then asked "Can I sit with you?" or something like that.[09:41:09] <JonathanThompson> And of course, there was almost no one out and about in the neighborhood at that time.[09:41:29] <myob> yes, that sounds like the vice squad to me...[09:42:13] <JonathanThompson> So, it may be.[09:42:30] <JonathanThompson> Call me paranoid, but I wasn't interested in learning further details what her real motivations were.[09:43:15] <JonathanThompson> It could have been relatively innocent, and she could be homeless, just looking for a warm place to pass time.[09:43:27] <JonathanThompson> It's cold enough outside that most people wouldn't want to sleep outside.[09:44:39] <JonathanThompson> And for all I know, she had a weapon on her.[09:44:49] <myob> generally an old, plastic car isn't much better[09:44:52] *** stargater has quit IRC[09:45:07] <JonathanThompson> Well, my car is a grey 2001 Saturn SL2: part tupperware :)[09:45:39] <JonathanThompson> It's mundane enough that it's a good thing I've memorized my license plate number so I can more readily tell which car is mine from a distance :P[09:47:20] <myob> hrm, I thought you had a 93?[09:47:42] <JonathanThompson> I traded it in last May.[09:48:11] <JonathanThompson> It was getting to a risky point of oil usage and using (blowing past rings) a quart of oil in 160 miles.[09:48:35] <JonathanThompson> It had around 207,000 miles on it at the time.[09:48:48] <JonathanThompson> And I didn't maintain it nearly as well as I should have, I assure you :)[09:49:06] <myob> well, its plastic, surely you just thrown it away when doen :P[09:49:18] <JonathanThompson> It's not entirely plastic.[09:49:34] <JonathanThompson> It's actually one of the few cars with a frame, instead of a unibody.[09:50:13] <JonathanThompson> Probably if it had been a unibody car, that accident I had in late 2003 would have finished it off for all practical intents because of repair costs to straighten it.[09:50:15] <myob> the saturn looks like an Opel Vectra to me...[09:50:27] <JonathanThompson> It may be that, or very close to that.[09:50:58] <JonathanThompson> The 93 was an SC2, this is an SL2, the sedan.[09:51:01] <myob> "They were based on the Opel Vectra B"[09:51:03] <JonathanThompson> SC2=coupe.[09:51:06] <myob> that'd be it...[09:51:25] <myob> the Vectra is made of steel, we don't do placcy cars here :P[09:51:40] <JonathanThompson> Not all the body panels are made of the composite.[09:51:54] <JonathanThompson> The hood, trunk and roof are made of steel.[09:52:30] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[09:52:47] <Jixt> hi[09:52:50] <JonathanThompson> One funny thing about the composite doors is you can go up to the doors, and give it a good hard punch, and you'll just bounce off :P[09:52:53] <JonathanThompson> Hi Jixt.[09:53:08] <myob> yeah, well, the doors here are generally steel too... or aluminium...[09:53:20] <JonathanThompson> It won't leave any damage, unless you hit it hard enough to crack it, which will likely cause you as much damage in the process.[09:54:11] <JonathanThompson> And they work very well for areas in the US that salt and sand the roads, which tends to eat cars.[09:54:31] <JonathanThompson> AKA "Road Rot"[09:54:43] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[09:54:50] <myob> we salt/grit the roads here too, you just put up with it and get a enw car every ~5 years if you live in the countryside[09:55:23] <JonathanThompson> Some people in the US replace their cars that often or more, but I'm not sure they're the average.[09:55:39] <JonathanThompson> Usually they're the ones that replace their cars because they simply want something new.[09:56:11] <myob> oldest car in the carpark in work is a 1992, but its a BMW sportscar, after that its 2002[09:56:23] <JonathanThompson> Of course, replacing cars that often isn't good financial sense for almost all cars, and if you're replacing them that often otherwise, chances are you're buying crappy cars.[09:56:57] <silverpower> I never did understand the appeal of trading your car in that often.[09:57:01] <JonathanThompson> I'm not interested in buying a car I'd expect I'd need to replace in 5 years from new.[09:57:41] <geist> yeah, i'm gonna drive mine into the ground[09:57:46] *** stargater has joined #haiku[09:57:47] <stargater> re[09:57:55] <JonathanThompson> That's what I came close to doing with that 93 coupe :)[09:58:08] <JonathanThompson> My first car I drove until the engine seized.[09:58:22] <JonathanThompson> That was out of financial necessity and not having cash.[09:58:40] <JonathanThompson> I did have another car at the same time, as I knew it was going to die soon.[09:58:48] <myob> I drove my first car to destruction, that only took 9 months though[09:59:10] <JonathanThompson> I had the car that died on me much longer than that, and it was in crap shape when I bought it used.[09:59:15] <myob> as it was already 17 years old[09:59:22] <myob> (I got it free)[09:59:36] <JonathanThompson> I bought my first one when it was 14 model years old.[09:59:51] <JonathanThompson> And the previous owners abused it horribly.[10:00:04] <JonathanThompson> And on top of that, they didn't repair it correctly.[10:00:30] <JonathanThompson> I can think of at least one thing they did where they had "extra parts": afterwards.[10:00:49] <silverpower> That's what my family does - I prefer to maintain it even beyond the point where the engine needs rebuilding/replacing until it gets wrecked, but then I stick to models I'm willing to dump money into.[10:01:41] <JonathanThompson> I figure there's no point in buying a car you can't expect to get an economically feasible 10 years out of.[10:01:54] <JonathanThompson> And that's without babying it.[10:02:04] <JonathanThompson> (I most certainly DO NOT baby my cars)[10:02:41] <silverpower> What do you do, pound on the accelerator mercilessly?[10:02:47] <JonathanThompson> Just ask some of my previous passengers that have kissed the passenger's front window going fast around highway exit/entrance ramps :P[10:02:54] <JonathanThompson> No.[10:03:06] <JonathanThompson> But I don't drive riding the brakes, either.[10:03:13] <JonathanThompson> I don't slow down if I don't have a good reason to.[10:03:24] <silverpower> heh.[10:03:50] <JonathanThompson> And I'm not afraid to corner at the limits of the car's suspension/tires in the conditions :)[10:04:10] <silverpower> hehe, but do you drive cars that are suitable for such things?[10:04:16] <silverpower> (I miss my Z. :( )[10:04:23] <JonathanThompson> I don't floor it all the time, but it isn't rare for me to do so, at least in certain situations, like passing.[10:04:42] <JonathanThompson> My 93 coupe handled better than this 2001 sedan, that's for sure.[10:04:52] <silverpower> Saturn sedan?[10:04:59] <JonathanThompson> Saturn SL2.[10:05:07] <silverpower> I've always had bad luck with GMs.[10:05:32] <silverpower> I can't believe my parents bought three of the damn things.[10:05:42] <JonathanThompson> For the 93, I didn't replace the clutch until 193,666 miles - and then that wasn't because the clutch died first :)[10:05:50] <JonathanThompson> First clutch.[10:06:29] <JonathanThompson> A 55 cent cotter pin in the transaxle differential died first, and caused a hole the size of two balled fists in the bottom of the transmission oil pan.[10:06:52] <silverpower> All of them died around the 15-year mark - steering rack failure, transmission and ignition problems, and electrical anomalies, respectively.[10:06:57] <JonathanThompson> I had called only a few hours earlier to schedule having the clutch replaced preemptively on a day off, since I was delivering pizza.[10:07:21] <silverpower> then the tranny grenaded? Ouch.[10:07:23] <JonathanThompson> The clutch was still fine, really...[10:07:45] <JonathanThompson> The tranny did that before it was supposed to go in, so it did it at the best time possible, in that situation.[10:08:13] <JonathanThompson> A stupid 55 cent cotter pin died and caused it to be a very expensive repair/maintenance issuce.[10:08:31] <JonathanThompson> But most people don't have cars that long, let alone first clutches.[10:08:43] <JonathanThompson> And yes, I didn't drive it gently :)[10:09:48] * JonathanThompson isn't sure how many times he got his first car off the ground[10:10:08] <silverpower> I'm genuinely shocked your tranny didn't grenade before then. Both Bonnevilles lost their transmissions before the 100K-mile mark. I don't recall what happened to the 6000's transmission.[10:10:33] <JonathanThompson> The Saturn manual transmission they put in those was pretty solidly built and designed.[10:10:45] <JonathanThompson> I did eat 2 slave cylinders while I had the car.[10:11:01] <silverpower> The '87 was on its third when we gave up on it, and the '92 was on the second when the electricals malfunctioned for the last time.[10:11:06] *** flyinghippo has quit IRC[10:11:07] <JonathanThompson> I also didn't abuse the transmission/clutch.[10:11:36] <silverpower> (they also had suffered two and one engine rebuilds respectively.)[10:11:37] <JonathanThompson> Otherwise, how else could I have gone that far on a first clutch, and that's basically the car I mastered a manual transmission on?[10:12:05] <JonathanThompson> I did master the art of jam-shifting in that car.[10:12:36] <JonathanThompson> As long as a car is already moving, if you do it correctly, you don't need a clutch.[10:12:45] <JBurton> indeed[10:13:03] <JBurton> just put the lever in the neutral position[10:13:10] <JBurton> push on the accelerator a couple of times[10:13:11] <JBurton> and switch[10:13:18] <silverpower> Well, the idea behind Saturn was to bring Japanese-style industrial design to GM. So perhaps I should be less shocked.[10:13:25] <JonathanThompson> Depends on whether you're up or downshifting, of course :)[10:13:46] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[10:13:46] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[10:13:58] <JBurton> yeah[10:14:00] <JBurton> hi mmu_man[10:14:26] <mmu_man> plop[10:15:08] <JonathanThompson> plop[10:15:11] <JonathanThompson> fizz[10:15:12] <JonathanThompson> fizz[10:15:21] <JonathanThompson> (someone complete this!)[10:16:31] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[10:16:59] <myob> JT "Drink glass of disprin" ?[10:17:12] <JonathanThompson> Alka Seltzer ad.[10:17:20] <JonathanThompson> At least that's what it is from in the US.[10:17:32] <JonathanThompson> They might use a different name elsewhere.[10:17:34] <myob> well, they don't advertise here, that I'm aware of[10:17:41] <myob> they do exist though[10:18:13] <JonathanThompson> Of course, I have too many years of commercials and such crap in my head I'd love to be able to get rid of, as I can't think of a practical use for most of it.[10:18:37] <JonathanThompson> After all, there are only so many game shows to use it on.[10:18:45] <myob> alka seltzer is German anwayy, so its not like its US-only ;)[10:19:13] * JonathanThompson shrugs[10:20:41] <silverpower> What do you guys tend to prefer for your Linux cross-compile environment, if applicable to you? (I seriously doubt R5 can build cross tools for PowerPC...)[10:21:37] <Ingenu> PowerPC dead[10:21:55] <Ingenu> x86_64 is the future[10:24:07] <silverpower> I could care less about x86_64, though.[10:24:46] <silverpower> Besides, I don't have anything x86_64, but I do have PowerPC kit.[10:25:00] <mmu_man> ARM is teh future.[10:25:29] <mmu_man> But intel got scared and so bought it and made sure it would never compete its own chip by limitting the clock speed[10:25:57] <Ingenu> doesn't really matter what's being sold now is either x86 or x86_64[10:26:05] <Ingenu> so that's what Haiku need to support IMO[10:26:47] <myob> mmu_man: Intel have sold most of the xscale stuff + the ARM core designs are still owned and developed by ARM Holdings[10:26:50] <myob> which is a PLC[10:27:17] <mmu_man> still, it was enough to kill it at that time it was dangereous :)[10:28:33] <mmu_man> ... blackfin ? ;)[10:31:30] *** stargater has quit IRC[10:31:56] <mmu_man> I'd be tempted to think more 32 bit ports would help clean things up for the 64 bit stuff[10:33:08] <raph_ael> hello[10:33:43] *** fritte has quit IRC[10:36:41] *** eNGIMa has joined #haiku[10:36:59] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[10:43:57] <myob> mmu_man: just get me insane enough to try MIPS64 again ;)[11:02:10] <mmu_man> go for it =)[11:07:56] <Jixt> hi Begasus![11:08:38] <Begasus> hi Jixt![11:08:41] <Begasus> ;)[11:08:55] <Jixt> A day off today?[11:09:56] <Begasus> not feeling to well today ...[11:10:06] <Begasus> hot weather is deff not good for me :s[11:11:27] *** fritte has joined #haiku[11:15:07] <Jixt> ic[11:15:46] <Jixt> And now you sit outside with the laptop programming for Haiku ;-)[11:16:05] <Begasus> nope ... sitting inside :p[11:23:07] *** Begasus has quit IRC[11:23:36] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[11:28:36] <CIA-17> nielx * r20724 /haiku/trunk/docs/user/ (21 files in 4 dirs):[11:28:36] <CIA-17> Large documentation update:[11:33:35] <Jixt> Begasus, It is now possible to run PhotoGrabber on BeOs R5 with the Haiku USB stack ;)[11:34:20] <mmu_man> but it's still not working here :)[11:34:36] <mmu_man> how do I build it all in debug mode[11:34:51] <mmu_man> tried adding DEBUG on ... in UserBuildConfig[11:34:59] <mmu_man> but ti doesn't seem to like the * wildcard[11:35:55] <Begasus> great work Jixt :d[11:39:39] <mmu_man> DEBUG on <src!add-ons!kernel!bus_managers!usb!>Stack.o = 1 ;[11:39:45] <mmu_man> tried[11:39:48] <mmu_man> DEBUG on <src!add-ons!kernel!bus_managers!usb!>* = 1 ;[11:39:51] <mmu_man> idn't seem to work[11:42:09] <Jixt> I've the same problem mmu_man[11:42:24] <Jixt> I can't get any DEBUG information from the USB stack[11:42:41] <mmu_man> maybe it doesn't account for that DEBUG var from jam[11:42:47] <mmu_man> probably a different debug code[11:42:53] <mmu_man> anyway bbl[11:43:35] <Jixt> anyway, I was able to see the pictures from my camera via PTP and I could download them[11:43:50] <Jixt> Deleting was also no problem[11:44:05] <Jixt> But it is still not 100% usable[11:44:06] <JBurton> mmu_man you can enable debugging for a particular folder[11:44:09] <JBurton> I think[11:44:21] <JBurton> without the *[11:44:43] <mmu_man> just the grist alone ?[11:44:46] <mmu_man> ok let's try that[11:44:47] <JBurton> hmm I think[11:44:47] <JBurton> so[11:44:52] <JBurton> I have managed to do that[11:45:01] <JBurton> but I don't have the build environment here[11:45:03] <JBurton> so I can't remember[11:45:13] <JBurton> or the grist alone[11:45:25] <JBurton> or the grist, with the last folder outside the grist[11:45:35] <mmu_man> will see[11:45:38] <mmu_man> shower[11:45:42] <Jixt> grist?[11:45:50] <mmu_man> the <...> part[11:46:08] <Jixt> ow, ok[11:46:14] <Jixt> thx for the info[11:46:55] <JBurton> mmu_man got a water-proof laptop ?[11:50:36] <Jixt> anyway, the usb_raw driver seems to hang once in a while[11:50:53] <Jixt> waiting for a semaphore to be released[11:52:06] *** nielx has joined #haiku[11:52:17] <nielx> hola[11:53:37] <JBurton> hey nielx[11:55:41] <Begasus> hi peeps[11:56:20] <Jixt> hi nielx[11:56:38] <Jixt> como estas?[11:57:25] <Jixt> Y como estas con el haiku usb? :p[11:58:30] <nielx> no sé :-) mi ordenador con el code de ohci está en holanda[12:00:04] <Jixt> Dondé estas ahora?[12:00:23] <nielx> Ahora estoy en el universidad en Leioa, cerca de Bilbao[12:02:07] <Jixt> Tu estas allí para aprender espanol?[12:03:30] <nielx> si, pero sobre todo para fugarme holanda[12:03:39] <nielx> to find out what my priorities are :-)[12:04:25] <Jixt> nice ;-). I've also done that some months ago[12:06:08] <Jixt> He aprendido español in Valencia. He estado en España hace quatro meses.[12:07:58] <Jixt> Just to escape from work, life in Belgium, find a way in life ;-). Many 'crazy' programmers do that I think[12:15:21] <mmu_man> re[12:15:59] <JBurton> mmu_man this looks useful... http://code.google.com/p/elf-abisum/[12:17:01] <mmu_man> maybe[12:17:34] *** gotaku has joined #haiku[12:19:48] *** Bega_ has joined #haiku[12:20:46] <nielx> Jixt well, I think it works, but it now is becoming a burden. I'm halfway through, still have 2,5 months to go and I think I'm getting bored :-)[12:22:15] *** Begasus has quit IRC[12:22:51] <Jixt> nielx, I hope you find what you are looking for ;-).[12:23:07] <nielx> I have :-) A house in Rotterdam[12:23:44] <Jixt> East,west, home best ;-) :-p[12:24:04] <nielx> well, allthis time I have been dislocated in Amsterdam[12:25:25] <Jixt> ic[12:25:31] <Jixt> now, I'll have to go[12:25:33] <Jixt> meeting[12:25:42] <Jixt> cu next time and have fun![12:25:54] <Jixt> cu peeps[12:26:06] <Bega_> cu Jixt[12:26:41] <myob> nielx: long time no see[12:27:32] <nielx> indeed, how are things?[12:28:00] *** Jixt is now known as Jixt_meeting[12:29:41] *** JBurton has quit IRC[12:32:13] *** MikeW has joined #haiku[12:40:37] *** weltschmerz has quit IRC[12:46:38] *** MikeW has quit IRC[12:54:07] *** gotaku has quit IRC[12:54:23] *** Jixt_meeting has quit IRC[12:54:56] <myob> nielx: good good... IRCing from work and flicking back and forth between this + real stuff...[13:01:20] *** Bega_ is now known as Begasus_bbl[13:07:48] <CHodapp> I wish my computer at work could get the internets...[13:07:57] *** nielx has quit IRC[13:10:36] *** MrSun has quit IRC[13:12:13] <myob> CHodapp: internet access at work is a basic human right in my eyes ;)[13:15:06] *** Eji has joined #haiku[13:32:29] <miqlas> Ah, i finished my desktop style : http://miqlas.extra.hu/asztal.jpg :) I'm happy.[13:34:39] <mmu_man> ugh[13:34:44] <mmu_man> that's... green :)[13:34:57] <miqlas> yes. very green.[13:35:13] * mmu_man pets Citrus Zeta theme[13:39:56] *** Eji has quit IRC[13:43:35] *** {V} has joined #haiku[13:48:05] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[13:49:02] *** slaad has joined #haiku[13:54:25] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_haiku_mediaplayer_info.png Citrus :)[13:55:54] *** ablyss has joined #haiku[13:56:31] <slaad> Citrus?[13:56:59] <myob> think its a 1.2.1. or 1.5ism?[13:57:00] <mmu_man> a theme I made[13:57:08] <slaad> Ah.[13:58:03] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[14:01:46] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[14:02:42] *** dexterk has joined #haiku[14:03:26] <myob> I hate MS Acess :/[14:03:49] *** gravy_ has left #haiku[14:05:12] <Ingenu> access ;p[14:05:33] *** dexterk_ has joined #haiku[14:07:13] *** gravy_ has joined #Haiku[14:12:55] *** miqlas has quit IRC[14:24:43] *** dexterk has quit IRC[14:25:33] *** jevin has quit IRC[14:27:25] <dexterk_> Hi everyone,how to develop a driver for haiku? need to install it in a real PC?[14:29:05] <Ingenu> most likely[14:29:22] <Ingenu> how would you access the hardware w/o installing it on a real PC ?[14:29:50] <myob> most certainly[14:30:03] <dexterk_> :)[14:30:32] <myob> it becomes... problematic if its something like a disk controller, but other than that, it needs to be in a real PC, and you really need a second PC for serial debug output[14:30:54] <dexterk_> yes,thx[14:30:54] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[14:31:04] <gravy_> however depending on the type of driver R5 might suffice, which can be easier to install[14:31:20] <myob> well, yes[14:31:29] <myob> significantly so[14:32:11] <myob> the majority of drivers in the haiku tree originated on R5[14:32:13] <myob> what hardware is it[14:35:00] *** Eji has joined #haiku[14:37:19] *** axeld has joined #Haiku[14:37:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o axeld[14:39:12] <mmu_man> plop![14:39:38] *** StylusEater_Work has joined #haiku[14:41:33] *** TTRanger has joined #Haiku[14:42:35] <mmu_man> plop TTRanger[14:42:35] *** TTRanger has quit IRC[14:42:38] <mmu_man> eh[14:43:38] <CIA-17> jackburton * r20725 /haiku/trunk/src/tests/kits/opengl/direct_mode/GLDirectMode.cpp:[14:43:38] <CIA-17> Calling LockGL() before BGLView::AttachedToWindow() isn't allowed, it[14:43:38] <CIA-17> seems, as it leads to a crash. The GLDirectMode test app now works.[14:43:57] <mmu_man> good to know[14:47:58] *** TTRanger has joined #Haiku[14:55:08] <[Beta]> tidy[14:56:56] <Yez> where do I go to get the src for Firefox so I can build it for Haiku and use it?[14:57:27] *** SprMa has joined #haiku[14:57:34] <Yez> or, is there a build of Firefox for Haiku that I could grab somewhere?[14:57:50] *** TTRanger has quit IRC[14:58:13] * SprMa greets *[14:58:16] *** TTRanger has joined #Haiku[14:58:25] <[Beta]> Yez, search on bebits.com[14:58:55] <SprMa> could someone give me a hand with the network configuration in build 20724 (latest)?[14:59:41] <Yez> sure SprMa, just got it working here[14:59:58] <SprMa> lucky you.[15:00:24] <SprMa> NetworkStatus shows my two NIC (SiS900 onboard, RTL8139 PCI )[15:00:36] <Yez> ok[15:00:52] <Yez> actually, I did all my stuff from the terminal[15:01:07] <Yez> can you do ifconfig in the terminal and let me know what cards it finds?[15:01:34] <SprMa> sure (hang on, since it's a bit to type - Haiku's running on a different machine...)[15:01:41] <Yez> [Beta][15:02:19] <Yez> [Beta] I don't see any links to the src or to a build of Firefox for Haiku on BeBits...[15:02:29] <SprMa> there are:[15:02:29] <SprMa> loop (of course)[15:02:56] <SprMa> everyone has got an IP adress (no clue where from - except loop ;-) )[15:03:05] <Yez> SprMa right[15:03:20] <SprMa> all IP adresses are within my local net 192.168.0.*[15:03:21] <Yez> the trick is to change the IP so it works on your network[15:03:44] <Yez> so, for me I had loop and /dev/net/ipro1000/0 ...[15:03:51] <[Beta]> Yez, try http://bebits.com/bob/20796/firefox-2.0.0.3.en-US.beosR5-i586.zip[15:04:14] <[Beta]> havent heard if that one works though[15:04:20] <SprMa> what bothers me is the entry: "Media Type: unknown" under /dev.../rtl8139/0[15:04:40] <Yez> I tried to configure it with "ifocnfig ipro1000 192.168.1.128 up" but it would tell me, device not available[15:05:32] <Yez> so for the fun of it I tried "ifconfig /dev/net/ipro1000/0 192.168.1.128 up" and it worked[15:06:06] <Yez> you know, I might have had 255.255.255.0 just before that "up" so it had a netmask[15:06:14] <SprMa> yup. I set the IP adess to 192.168.0.30 (was: 192.168.0.233 - wouldn't be a problem, but .30 looks nicer)[15:06:23] <Yez> hehe[15:06:31] <SprMa> netmask is fine here: 255.255.255.0[15:07:17] <SprMa> I even got an entry for the gateway with "route add /de.../rtl8139/0 default gw 192.168.0.1[15:07:26] <Yez> so, now you are where I am at. You need some network apps to use the network connectivity[15:07:45] <SprMa> there is ping and traceroute (my friends of ol)[15:07:58] <Yez> ooh, I never checked my gateway. I just pinged my router and it pinged fine.[15:08:00] <SprMa> ping 192.168.0.1 works just fine[15:08:32] <SprMa> but "ping haiku-os.org" gets an "error: unknown host"[15:08:45][15:09:07] <Yez> um, from ifconfig, I am not sure[15:09:32] <_hugo> edit /etc/resolv.conf[15:09:42] <_hugo> and add "nameserver IP"[15:10:05] <Yez> cool, thanks _hugo[15:10:35] <_hugo> no problem[15:10:50] <SprMa> there's no resolv.conf in /etc (symlink to /boot/beos/etc)[15:10:57] <_hugo> SprMa: create one[15:11:05] <SprMa> D'oh[15:14:02] <SprMa> you should see my ping on the haiku-os.org webserver log :-)[15:16:07] <SprMa> Oh well.[15:16:07] <SprMa> Vision (the BeBits version) won't start.[15:16:07] <SprMa> "Could not open "Vision" with application "Vision" (Not an executable)."[15:16:14] <SprMa> Hooray :-([15:16:20] <_hugo> Vision should work[15:16:25] <_hugo> what revision are you trying?[15:16:54] <dexterk_> does Haiku have DriveSetup ?[15:17:00] <SprMa> Haiku: 20724[15:17:00] <SprMa> Vision: 0.9.7-SF-010705[15:17:19] <SprMa> Nope[15:17:22] <_hugo> SprMa: did you build it yourself?[15:18:15] <SprMa> No. Just d/l from http://haikuhost.com/housestrain/get.php?file=r20724_raw.tar.bz2[15:18:55] <_hugo> SprMa: there was a commit recently that might have broken binary compatability, we are looking into it. feel free to recheck in the following days[15:19:03] <_hugo> both Vision, NetPositive, etc all run[15:19:20] <SprMa> The last build I tried (from May, 9th) Vision started but could not connect.[15:19:31] <[Beta]> SprMa, check if Vision is marked as executable...[15:19:31] <SprMa> Ah. Ok.[15:20:10] <SprMa> It is. For Owner, Group and World[15:21:31] *** jevin has joined #haiku[15:25:02] <SprMa> I think I found the old image.[15:25:02] <SprMa> Time for copyattr -d -r[15:29:33] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[15:30:06] <Eji> hugo, just to let you know I just made an FTP transfert of Firefox-2-0-0-3 from another PC to Haiku rev 20721, transfert went fine but exiting the ftp cli client brought me to kdl.[15:30:34] *** GreyGhost has joined #haiku[15:31:09] <_hugo> Eji: real hardware or?[15:37:49] *** Minbari_work has joined #haiku[15:41:11] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[15:45:34] *** dexterk_ has left #haiku[15:49:23] <Eji> Hugo: VMware[15:51:02] <Eji> Sorry for the lag in time, I'm at work...[15:53:57] *** GreyGhost has quit IRC[15:54:45] *** guildencrantz has joined #haiku[16:00:49] *** bga has joined #haiku[16:00:49] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o bga[16:03:48] <Eji> Hugo, still here ?[16:04:13] <Eji> If Firefox 2 0 0 3 from bebits working under Haiku ?[16:04:20] <Eji> If -> Is...[16:05:10] *** Mazon is now known as mazon[16:05:24] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[16:05:44] <SprMa> @_hugo: hrgn. With the image from May 13th (was a friday...) the NIC won't work.[16:06:10] <SprMa> I think I'll enjoy the sunshine for a while...[16:06:13] *** absabs has quit IRC[16:06:18] <SprMa> thanks *[16:06:21] *** Leo63 has joined #haiku[16:06:21] *** SprMa has quit IRC[16:07:13] *** slaad has quit IRC[16:09:01] *** Leo63 is now known as leo42[16:09:04] *** Minbari_work is now known as Minbari_Sleep[16:09:06] *** leo42 is now known as leo43[16:09:29] *** leo43 is now known as leo44[16:09:34] *** leo44 is now known as leo455[16:10:50] *** jevin has quit IRC[16:12:44] * Eji slaps arikato around a bit with a large trout[16:14:20] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[16:14:30] *** Eji has quit IRC[16:15:17] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC[16:18:42] *** eNGIMa has quit IRC[16:18:54] *** TTRanger has quit IRC[16:25:47] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[16:29:11] <dr_evil> hi axeld, you avialable[16:29:14] <dr_evil> ?[16:30:46] *** TTRanger has joined #Haiku[16:34:02] *** petterhj has quit IRC[16:41:05] *** NeonLicht has quit IRC[16:41:28] *** NeonLicht has joined #haiku[16:41:45] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[16:42:32] *** Atte has joined #haiku[16:44:24] <dr_evil> Amazon.de hasn't shipped Linksys WPC54G-D2 wlan card since friday, but announces it as beeing on stock. they did ship wlan router, from the same order, on saturday.[16:47:12] *** Atte has left #haiku[16:48:28] * DeadYak meeps[16:50:06] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[16:52:44] * _hugo pets DeadYak[16:53:09] <cizra> _hugo: Did I tell you[16:53:11] <cizra> that it worked?[16:53:25] <_hugo> cizra: good to hear[16:53:46] <cizra> Yeah, just like women want to hear that they're loved every 5 minutes.[16:58:32] <DeadYak> _hugo![16:58:44] <_hugo> hey DeadYak, what's up[17:01:05] <DeadYak> work :([17:01:06] <DeadYak> you?[17:02:02] <_hugo> well, should be working as well, but having fun instead[17:02:03] <_hugo> eheh[17:07:47] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[17:08:18] *** devian__ has joined #Haiku[17:08:29] <devian__> hallo guys[17:09:48] <devian__> in the IP addressing is the IP header components like Versions,Traffic class etc are entering in a Continuas way??[17:10:39] <devian__> ie is the Position of the Header length(as IPv4)'s position fixed there ??that from 3rd bit to 7thbit it will present??[17:11:49] <devian__> pls help me out[17:14:35] <_hugo> devian__: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc0791.txt[17:17:31] <devian__> thanks _Hugo :)[17:18:30] <_hugo> no problem[17:22:53] *** Begasus_bbl is now known as Begasus[17:27:26] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20726 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/datalink_protocols/arp/arp.cpp: fixed arp's ClearQueue when an entry is rejected.[17:29:19] *** santagada has joined #haiku[17:29:50] *** ekdahl has joined #haiku[17:41:19] *** kokito has joined #haiku[17:43:34] *** TTRanger has quit IRC[17:45:56] *** Grackle_ has joined #haiku[17:45:57] *** Grackle has quit IRC[17:47:08] *** devian__ has quit IRC[17:56:37] *** arikato has quit IRC[17:57:00] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[17:57:52] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku[17:58:32] *** leo455 has quit IRC[17:58:50] *** arikato has joined #haiku[17:59:34] <myob> exit[17:59:35] <myob> exit[17:59:38] <myob> erm[17:59:41] <myob> missing a / :P[17:59:42] *** myob has quit IRC[18:07:29] <dr_evil> pinging axeld[18:07:59] <axeld> Hi dr_evil![18:08:47] <dr_evil> hi[18:09:10] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[18:09:11] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[18:09:18] <dr_evil> hi mmu_man, too![18:09:42] <mmu_man> re[18:09:45] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[18:09:54] <mmu_man> anyone knows what I can do with mkisofs to get a desktop.ini working (bg picture, but either autorun) in windows on a cd ?[18:10:11] <mmu_man> seems teh root folder must be attrib +s but I only have chmod :)[18:10:29] <mmu_man> don't know if mkisofs maps them or has an option for it[18:11:10] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[18:11:28] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[18:13:13] *** mats has joined #haiku[18:18:21] <guildencrantz> morning all: is there a bourne shell way to get the mtime of a file? I'm looking for something along the lines of perl's (stat($filename))[9] .[18:19:44] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[18:23:20] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[18:25:20] *** mazon is now known as Mazon[18:26:03] <guildencrantz> I'm an idiot. stat -f '%f' $filename[18:26:12] <guildencrantz> s/%f/%m/[18:29:22] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[18:30:41] *** MauriceK has quit IRC[18:32:40] *** santagada has quit IRC[18:41:17] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[18:49:20] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[18:50:30] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[18:53:55] *** korli has joined #haiku[18:53:55] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o korli[18:56:03] <dr_evil> hi korli[18:56:21] <korli> hi dr_evil[19:00:32] <dr_evil> I integrated DVB-T driver yesterday, but the add-on and TV app need some more work[19:03:31] <korli> dr_evil: nice move[19:03:40] *** _konrad has joined #haiku[19:04:13] <_konrad> hello[19:04:16] <_konrad> procton around[19:04:18] <_konrad> ?[19:04:18] *** MauriceK has joined #haiku[19:06:13] <korli> dr_evil: I've got a question about beep() : I thought it could send a message to the media_addon_server to play the sound[19:09:05] *** _konrad has quit IRC[19:11:35] <dr_evil> yes, that should be possible. what's the question?[19:13:19] <hUMUNGUs> Is it just my pc or is sliding tabs really slow ?[19:15:36] <korli> dr_evil: can I use a BFileGameSound to play the sound in the media_addon_server ?[19:17:15] *** leszek_ has joined #haiku[19:17:21] <leszek_> hi[19:19:01] <dr_evil> korli I think that any media services should be useable in the add-on server, so just try it[19:19:27] <kokito> hey leszek_, nice mini tutorial video :)[19:19:36] <leszek_> thx ;)[19:21:21] <kokito> howdy dr_evil & korli & axeld[19:22:08] <geist> grumble grumble[19:22:27] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[19:22:46] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[19:25:32] <StylusEater_Work> geist: be happy... :-)[19:25:33] <StylusEater_Work> hehe[19:25:35] <korli> hey kokito[19:25:46] <korli> dr_evil: ok I'll try[19:29:04] *** weltschmerz has joined #haiku[19:29:21] *** slaine_ has quit IRC[19:30:00] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[19:30:21] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[19:33:41] *** miqlas has joined #haiku[19:37:22] *** TheDave has quit IRC[19:37:36] *** TheDave_ has joined #haiku[19:38:19] <_hugo> geist: do you receive the commits list?[19:39:15] *** Grackle has joined #haiku[19:40:01] <_hugo> hm, nevermind, i remember you replying 0:-)[19:40:06] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[19:43:44] <geist> I'm not sure what they're saying[19:44:01] <geist> are these people running haiku binaries on r5 or something? I have to test for *that*?[19:44:52] <_hugo> geist: other way around[19:44:56] <_hugo> r5 binaries in haiku[19:45:27] <geist> ah, so that guy just said the opposite of what he meant[19:45:54] *** leszek_ has quit IRC[19:45:55] <geist> hmm I guess I can see why that'd be a problem. I didn't set the function attribute on memcpy, so when the haiku apps link against libroot they dont care[19:46:12] <geist> but the external apps that are specifically wanting a function type memcpy symbol are having problems[19:46:28] <geist> alas I can't get into my box at home, so it'll have to wait[19:46:43] <_hugo> ok, just want to check whether you were aware of the issue :-)[19:46:57] <_hugo> wanted even[19:47:12] <geist> absolutely[19:47:42] <geist> though since I'm a half day off from most of the folks that run it, you dont get a good test until a day later[19:48:04] <_hugo> :-)[19:48:23] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[19:49:59] <korli> geist: btw src/system/libroot/posix/arch/x86 might be better than src/system/libroot/posix/string/arch/x86, no ?[19:50:16] <geist> no[19:50:45] <geist> but anyway, I really hate that change, and the way jam works[19:51:27] *** Euver has joined #haiku[19:53:42] <geist> the whole way libroot is built and linked worked far better in newos, but this version was super hacked up[19:54:33] *** Jixt has quit IRC[19:55:14] <geist> it should probably do what i did with newos and build multiple versions of libroot up front. one for user space, one for kernel space. .so and .a verions[19:55:25] <geist> and then the various binariesin the system can just link against em[19:55:47] <geist> righ tnow it builds a user space libroot and then the 3 other places where folks need stuff from it they just directly pull the source files out of the middle of libroot and compile again[19:56:05] <geist> which is terribly fragile, and gets in the way of putting logic in the libroot jamfiles to conditionally build stuff[19:56:23] <geist> i ended up just having to stuff all the asm bits into arch_string.S and just hard build it every time[19:56:28] <geist> even if it's empty (on ppc)[19:56:33] <geist> which is terribly sub optimal[19:57:10] <korli> dunno why you even added an empty ppc version[19:57:19] <geist> because it wont build otherwise[19:57:34] <geist> it needs *something* to build there because i can't figure out a good way to conditionally build it[19:58:11] <geist> or i'd have to duplicate the logic of deciding to build pieces of it only for x86 or ppc or whatnot in every jamfile that directly pokes it's fingers into libroot[19:58:18] <geist> there are 4 of them[19:58:32] <geist> so i just settled on always building it, even if it's empty[20:01:40] *** brecht has joined #haiku[20:02:49] <brecht> hello[20:02:51] <dr_evil> ok, but as long as you don't include any header, it won't be rebuild in the future. but yes, it's still a little ugly[20:04:11] <geist> if jam didn't absolutely drive me nuts I'd dig in and fix all of that. I'm kind of a build system purist myself[20:04:16] <korli> geist: I think you're used to make :)[20:04:30] <geist> even newos build system kind of drives me nuts, I have since figured out a bunch of better solutions to the problems in it[20:04:42] <geist> sure, but even then last night i found that the jam string processing features totally suck[20:04:52] <geist> there's no way, for example, to filter out a string from another one[20:04:58] <geist> that's the most basic thing there[20:05:11] <geist> also, when building a rule it *has* to all live in one directory, apparently[20:05:12] <korli> geist: there is (FFilter)[20:05:19] <geist> yeah? what's that?[20:05:38] <geist> what i wanted to it in libroot jam was basically say[20:05:49] <geist> source files = memcpy.c memset.c etc[20:05:50] <geist> and then[20:06:08] <geist> if x86 { source files -= memcpy.c; archsourcefiles = arch/x86/memcpy.S; }[20:06:38] <geist> but it's all moot because of the other places in the build system that directly try to build memcpy.c directly[20:06:39] <_hugo> geist: just wondering, why not add memcpy.c in a else{} instead?[20:06:58] <geist> i did, but then i hit the fact that other places int he build system have all of that hard coded as well[20:07:04] <_hugo> ah ok[20:07:05] <geist> so i'd have to duplicate that logic in 4 different places[20:07:37] <geist> i went through about 4 different designs and eventually settled on always building everything[20:07:39] <korli> geist: yeah bad to build several times the same thing[20:07:49] <geist> there's always a memcpy.c that gets built, there's always a arch_string.S that gets built[20:08:00] <geist> it's up to the arch to decide whether or not to emit a memcpy symbol[20:08:11] <geist> which sucks, but I'm tired of dealing with jam[20:08:59] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[20:11:38] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[20:11:49] <brecht> is networking in haiku BONE or R5 compatible?[20:12:00] <DeadYak> BONE-like[20:12:29] <brecht> but not compatible?[20:12:37] *** wahjava has joined #haiku[20:13:19] <DeadYak> brecht: it's compatible from a source standpoint, it'll wind up implementing more than BONE does in the long run though[20:15:40] <wahjava> hi channel[20:15:47] <wahjava> I'm new to Haiku[20:16:01] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[20:16:08] <wahjava> I've just compiled and built a vmware image of Haiku from SVN[20:16:11] <brecht> ok[20:16:24] <brecht> bbl[20:16:35] <brecht> for more stupid questions ;)[20:16:41] * brecht is idle: BRB[20:17:07] <wahjava> and now when I boot it, in vmware console, a cursor "hand" appears on blue background, it seems VM is hung, anyway to seem some kind of console[20:17:18] <wahjava> some debug console[20:17:36] <wahjava> the disk image available from site works fine[20:19:28] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[20:19:28] *** Begasus has quit IRC[20:20:45] *** wahjava has quit IRC[20:21:17] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[20:22:10] *** emitrax_ has joined #haiku[20:22:16] *** Hoern has joined #Haiku[20:26:32] *** jevin has joined #haiku[20:31:35] *** SiCuTDeU1 has joined #haiku[20:31:36] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[20:33:16] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20727 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (BufferQueue.h TCPEndpoint.cpp TCPEndpoint.h tcp.cpp tcp.h):[20:33:16] <CIA-17> assorted TCP fixes.[20:33:16] <CIA-17> - fixed the locking for spawned connections and accept()s.[20:33:16] <CIA-17> - return EMSGSIZE if the user is trying to write more data than the send buffer can hold.[20:33:16] <CIA-17> - fixed a crash when receiving a RST while the connection is being closed.[20:33:20] <CIA-17> - don't wake up readers when the connection gets established.[20:33:23] <CIA-17> - endpoint managers lock must be recursive to properly work with spawn'ed sockets.[20:36:09][20:36:17] <_hugo> :>[20:36:31] <DaaT> tuga power :D[20:36:44] <_hugo> eheh[20:39:21] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[20:39:27] *** emitrax has quit IRC[20:40:42] *** SiCuTDeU1 is now known as SiCuTDeUx[20:40:51] *** brecht has quit IRC[20:46:44] *** gotaku has joined #haiku[20:47:08] <gotaku> Look at all the people. ;)[20:50:46] *** Minbari_Sleep is now known as Minbari_work[20:58:25] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[21:02:10] *** TheDave_ has quit IRC[21:02:54] *** gotaku has left #haiku[21:03:07] *** rgb has joined #haiku[21:07:48] *** stargater has joined #haiku[21:08:20] <stargater> hi[21:10:50] *** ChrisHJW has joined #haiku[21:11:43] <miqlas> re[21:13:46] *** tqh has joined #haiku[21:15:51] <CIA-17> korli * r20728 /haiku/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs):[21:15:51] <CIA-17> added default sound events[21:15:51] <CIA-17> implemented system_beep() by sending an event to the media addon server[21:16:02] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku[21:16:52] *** jevin has quit IRC[21:17:10] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[21:19:15] *** siarzhuk has joined #haiku[21:20:18] *** Sil2100 has joined #haiku[21:20:32] <Sil2100> Hi[21:23:06] <Begasus> g'night peeps[21:23:32] *** Begasus has quit IRC[21:25:18] *** miqlas has quit IRC[21:26:06] *** petterhj- has joined #haiku[21:27:14] *** petterhj has quit IRC[21:32:59] *** weltschmerz has quit IRC[21:34:09] *** rgb has quit IRC[21:43:41] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[21:52:01] *** Master199 has joined #haiku[21:56:25] *** tqh has quit IRC[21:57:26] *** BuildFactory has quit IRC[21:57:47] *** _Lucretia_ has joined #haiku[22:01:32] *** BuildFactory has joined #haiku[22:02:06] *** jevin has joined #haiku[22:02:55] *** arikato has quit IRC[22:03:03] *** jevin has quit IRC[22:03:40] *** pikapika has joined #haiku[22:03:54] *** arikato has joined #haiku[22:05:29] *** BuildFactory has quit IRC[22:05:36] *** kb7sqi has quit IRC[22:05:39] *** BuildFactory has joined #haiku[22:05:44] <pikapika> hello[22:06:03] <NeonLicht> hello, pikapika[22:06:09] <pikapika> hi NeonLicht :)[22:11:32] *** ChrisHJW has quit IRC[22:11:50] *** Euver has quit IRC[22:12:47] *** gotaku has joined #haiku[22:12:53] *** bga has quit IRC[22:14:27] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[22:14:53] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[22:15:13] *** gravy has quit IRC[22:17:01] <dr_evil> n8[22:17:03] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[22:17:44] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[22:18:28] *** procton has quit IRC[22:20:52] *** _DaaT_ has joined #haiku[22:21:18] *** Minbari_work has quit IRC[22:22:50] *** remon has joined #haiku[22:27:21] *** meianoite has joined #haiku[22:27:32] <meianoite> hey axeld![22:27:41] <meianoite> any chances you're actually here?[22:28:56] *** meianoite|jwirc has joined #haiku[22:29:28] <meianoite|jwirc> hmmm[22:29:36] <meianoite|jwirc> nice applet.[22:29:51] <NeonLicht> which one?[22:30:08] <meianoite> jwirc[22:30:15] <meianoite> *looks* good[22:30:35] <meianoite> a little distracting, though[22:30:57] <NeonLicht> any screenshot?[22:31:11] <meianoite> http://www.jwirc.com/ss.html[22:31:16] <NeonLicht> tx :)[22:31:48] <meianoite> I can't seem to find a way to disable the skin, though[22:32:04] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[22:32:46] *** meianoite|jwirc2 has joined #haiku[22:32:53] <meianoite|jwirc2> doh[22:32:56] *** meianoite|jwirc has quit IRC[22:33:58] * DeadYak meeps[22:34:42] * meianoite coyotes DeadYak[22:35:05] * meianoite can't seem to find the Acme box he had handy just a couple secs ago[22:35:08] <remon> good evening, anyone in here with the name Marco Radossevich ?[22:36:08] *** meianoite|jwirc2 has quit IRC[22:36:53] *** siarzhuk has quit IRC[22:38:55] <DeadYak> don't think so[22:39:38] *** DaaT has quit IRC[22:39:39] *** _DaaT_ is now known as DaaT[22:41:28] *** oco has joined #haiku[22:42:03] <remon> Hmm, I'm a little puzzled. He (I suppose he's a he) pointed me to Haiku, to see if the application if I'm working on could be ported to it....[22:42:19] <remon> but I wonder if anyone is interested in applications in haiku ?[22:43:56] <[Beta]> which application is it ?[22:44:28] <remon> http://traverso-daw.org/[22:52:24] <meianoite> cool app.[22:53:13] <remon> meianoite: thanks :)[22:53:21] <meianoite> your baby?[22:53:31] <remon> the next version (obviously) is way more kewl then the current stable ..[22:53:33] <remon> yes[22:53:45] <meianoite> does it support direct editing of the spectral view?[22:53:53] <meianoite> so one could do something like...[22:53:55] <meianoite> this?[22:54:12] <remon> not sure what you mean, sorry[22:54:16] <meianoite> (hold on)[22:55:11] <meianoite> http://www.ninwiki.com/My_Violent_Heart[22:55:12] <meianoite> here[22:55:17] <meianoite> take a look at the images on the right[22:55:34] <meianoite> if you ever messed with Audition you'll see what I mean[22:55:59] *** Jixt has quit IRC[22:56:12] <meianoite> direct spectral editin is a *great* tool to remove some forms of noise from a song[22:56:34] <meianoite> like pops, crackling, coughs and so on[22:56:37] <remon> heh, never did that, and nope, doesn't have this feature atm[22:56:46] <meianoite> and... you can also get creative :)[22:56:47] <kokito> remon, something like http://www.yellowbites.com/coldcut.html ?[22:57:16] <remon> kokito: you mean if traverso is something similar ?[22:57:58] <kokito> remon, just pointing out to one of the several audio BeOS editors :)[22:58:15] <remon> ah[22:58:38] <meianoite> remon if you don't mind the suggestion, implementing this is *killer*. I know *no* free editors that can handle this operation, and if you're looking for audiences and killer features... ;)[22:58:38] *** Master199 has quit IRC[22:58:59] <remon> meianoite: heh, thanks for the suggestion :)[22:59:32] <meianoite> spectral view is almost a necessity, anyway[23:00:15] <meianoite> editing is just the big christmas gift one always longed for :)[23:00:48] <remon> there is a fft window, but someone indeed mentioned spectrum tool too.[23:01:17] <meianoite> it's not that hard[23:01:26] <meianoite> it's like having a top view of the FFT, color-coded[23:01:35] <meianoite> and it scrolls to the left[23:01:48] <remon> but currently, the focus is more into editing, multitrack recording, and making a solid framework to expend upon[23:01:51] <meianoite> I mean, of course you know that[23:02:06] <remon> :)[23:02:51] <remon> anyway, if haiku doesn't support Qt, then there's no luck to get traverso running on it...[23:03:06] <meianoite> eh... it doesn't.[23:03:18] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[23:03:19] <meianoite> but the API is pretty decent[23:03:27] <meianoite> you should give it a try anyway[23:03:30] <remon> unless someone want to recode the Qt specific part...[23:03:58] <remon> traverso relies heavily on Qt , porting to another toolkit would be a lot of work[23:04:01] <meianoite> and the karma bonus you'll get for porting this to BeOS is just priceless ;)[23:04:08] *** thom_ has joined #haiku[23:04:09] <remon> :D[23:04:30] <thom_> hi all[23:04:33] <kokito> thom_![23:04:38] <meianoite> seen my report, eh, thom_? :)[23:04:41] <thom_> yup :)[23:04:57] <meianoite> how cheerleader-ish you become? hehe[23:05:07] <thom_> becuase of the stuff going on in viriginia i figured a nice feel-good item was in place on osnews, you see[23:05:11] <[Beta]> uh oh, it's Thom[23:05:14] <[Beta]> hey.[23:05:17] <thom_> hi[23:05:25] *** [1]umccullough has joined #haiku[23:05:27] <meianoite> virginia?[23:05:27] <thom_> is umccullough here?[23:05:30] <meianoite> wow[23:05:33] <thom_> ok that answred my question[23:05:34] <meianoite> talk about timing[23:05:38] <[Beta]> good timing[23:05:53] <thom_> meianoite: virginia tech*[23:06:02] <[Beta]> umccullough, I guess you've got to sit at your server for the next few hours :p[23:06:11] <thom_> heh[23:06:16] <meianoite> thom_ I have no idea what's going on there[23:06:22] <thom_> meianoite: you dont?[23:06:34] <meianoite> colour me clueless =P[23:06:38] <[Beta]> meianoite, some students got killed[23:06:45] <meianoite> o_O[23:06:45] <thom_> anyway, a screenshot was posted somewhere of that haiku server running?[23:06:46] <meianoite> no shit[23:06:49] <thom_> some=31[23:06:59] <DaaT> meianoite, one dude killed 30[23:06:59] <meianoite> jesus[23:07:04] <meianoite> wtf =P[23:07:07] <DaaT> he's dead too, either suicide or killed[23:07:24] <DaaT> hi btw :P[23:07:39] <[Beta]> lo[23:08:41] *** thom_ is now known as Thom_Holwerda[23:08:45] <meianoite> virginia tech is supposed to be top notch regarding the kind of people who attend there[23:08:57] <meianoite> wtf is going on with the U.S.?[23:09:03] <DaaT> they had another shooting back in august on the first day of the year[23:09:10] <DaaT> and several bomb threats this past weeks[23:09:23] *** BuildFactory has quit IRC[23:09:31] <DaaT> it's the US... guns are easier to get then... well, anything almost[23:10:10] <meianoite> including boredom and unchanneled rage[23:10:11] <Thom_Holwerda> its kind of inevitable... doesnt make it any less sad for the people who died[23:10:20] <DaaT> *nod*[23:10:24] <Thom_Holwerda> but anyway, i didnt mean to start a political debate :)[23:10:31] <Thom_Holwerda> i just wanted that damn screenshot :P[23:10:36] <DaaT> but of course, it's GTA's (and other videogames') fault!!![23:10:45] <DaaT> Thom_Holwerda, let me see where I have it :P[23:10:57] <[Beta]> quick, someone take RobinHood and a stock Haiku desktop...[23:11:21] <DaaT> :D[23:11:22] <meianoite> if you roll back the #h's logs from about 20 hours ago you'll eventually stumble upon the imageshack url :)[23:11:52] <petterhj-> http://www.flickr.com/photos/umccullough/[23:12:16] <DaaT> darn[23:12:38] <Thom_Holwerda> gracias petterhj-[23:12:50] *** oco has quit IRC[23:13:02] <petterhj-> I won the linkrace! yey[23:13:07] <_hugo> guys, dont go posting "haiku serving webpages" in osnews, please.[23:13:20] * DaaT pets petterhj-[23:13:35] * DaaT posts Haiku Serving Webpages!" and links to Slashdot[23:13:37] <DaaT> *g*[23:13:47] <geist> _hugo: it serves webpages! slashdot it![23:13:53] <_hugo> geist: sigh[23:13:56] <meianoite> _hugo no need to be modest here[23:14:01] *** sarcas has joined #haiku[23:14:03] <meianoite> you just rocked[23:14:11] <_hugo> meianoite: its not an issue of modesty, its passing the wrong picture[23:14:20] <Thom_Holwerda> dont worry, _hugo[23:14:25] <Thom_Holwerda> ill word it carefully[23:14:26] <_hugo> people will think haiku "runs", download it and then complain it cant run in their hardware/crashes/whatever[23:14:28] <DaaT> what wrong picture? haiku IS a server OS :P[23:14:38] <DaaT> "haiku dethrowns unix!"[23:14:39] <meianoite> *progress* is never about passing the wrong picture[23:14:51] <[Beta]> "Haiku joins the server virtualisation wars"[23:14:55] <meianoite> hey DaaT, we have a history of performing better than Linux in this regard *g*[23:15:02] <meianoite> remember David and his Apache2 port? hehe[23:15:06] <DaaT> "vmware server ported to haiku!"[23:15:11] <Thom_Holwerda> "Haiku Achieves World[23:15:11] <DaaT> meianoite :)[23:15:14] <geist> Linux ported to haiku![23:15:23] <DaaT> "brain and pink use Haiku!"[23:15:30] <DaaT> errr... pinky[23:15:31] <Thom_Holwerda> "Haiku Achieves World Dominance, Serves One PAge"[23:15:37] <geist> pinky and the brain?[23:15:37] <meianoite> Haiku drives the Space Shuttle[23:15:40] <Thom_Holwerda> for 5 seconds[23:15:41] <DaaT> *nod* geist[23:15:46] <meianoite> Haiku powers next generation of X rockets[23:15:51] <DaaT> haiku first OS to Mars[23:16:02] <geist> Haiku ate my balls[23:16:05] <Thom_Holwerda> "Apple To Switch to Haiku"[23:16:21] <DaaT> "I switched and now I'm a happy person again"[23:16:29] <Grackle_> I've made some code changes and would like to submit a ticket/patch on trac, but I don't know how to make the patch. Can anyone help me?[23:16:30] <geist> Haiku cures cancer![23:16:32] <meianoite> btw [1]umccullough I can see you liked Hydra ;)[23:16:40] <petterhj-> Windows sues Haiku Inc. for patent violation[23:16:45] <DaaT> geist, of course it does, old news[23:16:46] *** korli has quit IRC[23:16:57] <geist> Haiku kills korli![23:16:57] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[23:17:06] <meianoite> well, BeOS R5 got me *3* chicks.[23:17:07] <DaaT> haiku under investigation for murder[23:17:10] <_hugo> Grackle_: did you change a source tree you downloaded with svn?[23:17:13] <DaaT> meianoite, did you BBQ them?[23:17:17] <meianoite> so it indeed works as cupid ;)[23:17:20] <axeld> Grackle_: "svn diff" should do the trick from the directory with the changes[23:17:36] <meianoite> DaaT I'm not too fond of cannibalism ;)[23:17:47] <DaaT> :)[23:17:54] <Grackle_> Cool, thanks guys.[23:17:55] <DaaT> silly boy, you don't know what's good[23:18:12] <geist> axeld: now that I caught you, do you know much about the stability of resize_area?[23:18:15] <meianoite> but people in the know do say they taste like chicken indeed heh[23:18:22] <DaaT> they do[23:18:25] <geist> I noticed it's basically bogus as far as locking the address space before screwing with it[23:18:26] <DaaT> I mean.. I guess they do[23:18:29] * DaaT whistles[23:18:35] <geist> I'm getting a fun deadlock in the VM I've seen a few times, gonna try to debug it[23:18:38] <axeld> geist: very little, actually[23:18:38] <meianoite> DaaT you're scaring the hell out of me[23:18:43] <Thom_Holwerda> is umccullough a developer of haiku?[23:18:47] <DaaT> me? scaring? nahhhh[23:18:49] <DaaT> just sharing[23:18:54] <meianoite> o_O[23:19:01] <Thom_Holwerda> im wondering if i need to wrte "haiku dev umccullough" or "haiku user umccullough"[23:19:02] <[Beta]> Thom_Holwerda, just a happy contributor + user[23:19:07] <DaaT> now where did I put the toothpicks[23:19:08] <geist> I was thinking of writing a good debug version of rw_lock (which at the moment is a thin shim over a sem)[23:19:15] <[Beta]> probably user.[23:19:17] <axeld> geist: nice - that function probably was never tested too hard beyond what the heap usually needs[23:19:21] <Thom_Holwerda> ok[23:19:22] <geist> and replace all the sems used as rw locks in the vm with that and debug it[23:19:32] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[23:19:50] <geist> the end result of my little deadlock is a rw sem with a negative count and everyone is holding it[23:19:51] <axeld> geist: that definitely sounds like a good idea[23:19:54] <kokito> does haiku have mmap?[23:19:57] <Thom_Holwerda> ok im using "enthusiast"[23:20:01] <geist> which could happen if someone acquired with write and released with read, etc[23:20:05] <axeld> Hi kokito[23:20:08] <DaaT> Thom_Holwerda, write: "vague person umccullough"[23:20:18] <kokito> hey axeld :)[23:20:25] <axeld> kokito: currently, it only has the functionality, but it doesn't actually export that call[23:20:30] <meianoite> "elusive dude ummccullough"[23:20:31] *** jevin has joined #haiku[23:20:38] <DaaT> or that[23:20:49] <DaaT> "axe murderer umccullough"[23:21:07] <meianoite> meet ummccullogh: the man, the legend[23:21:19] <[Beta]> "cute and cuddly fanboy umccullough"[23:21:28] <DaaT> the drifter, the hitchhiker with a chainsaw[23:21:29] <axeld> DaaT: I actually met umccullough in California, and he is a very nice axe murderer :-)[23:21:44] <DaaT> axeld, i only said axe murderer, nothing about him not being nice[23:21:44] <Thom_Holwerda> axeld: haha[23:22:02] <kokito> Thom_Holwerda, I would characterize umccullough as a "very active community member"[23:22:04] <DaaT> "hello m'am, i'm going to murder you... with an axe. Sorry for the inconvenience"[23:22:13] <DaaT> kokito, a stalker then?[23:22:24] <DaaT> a groupie?[23:22:28] <Thom_Holwerda> kokito: yeah, so, like, "enthusiast" kinda covers it ;)[23:22:46] <geist> where again do you live umccullough?[23:22:46] *** umccullough has quit IRC[23:22:49] *** [1]umccullough is now known as umccullough[23:23:07] <geist> if you're in the city during the day, we should grab lunch sometime[23:23:38] *** wildur has quit IRC[23:24:10] <axeld> geist: IIRC he lives more or less close to Sacramento[23:24:35] <DeadYak> axeld: is he like the axe murder in Kids in the Hall?[23:26:00] <axeld> DeadYak: I actually don't know that axe murderer :-)[23:26:20] <DaaT> kids in the hall... wow that was a long time[23:26:30] <DaaT> OMG!! umccullough=screech?!?!?!?[23:28:46] <Thom_Holwerda> http://www4.osnews.com/story/17710/Screenshots_of_Haiku_Serving_Webpage[23:29:03] <DeadYak> Thom: oh wow, didn't know you came here[23:29:12] <DeadYak> DaaT: you know which skit I'm talking about?[23:29:20] <Thom_Holwerda> DeadYak: neither did i until, like, 10 minutes ago[23:29:22] <DaaT> "haiku: you got served"[23:29:32] <DeadYak> Thom: I meant in general :)[23:29:34] <DaaT> not really DeadYak, just some vague memories[23:29:37] <Thom_Holwerda> heh[23:29:52] <DaaT> Thom_Holwerda,, funny :P[23:29:52] <DeadYak> DaaT: "And remember, chop chop!"[23:29:58] <DaaT> nope DeadYak, sorry[23:30:34] *** Jixt has quit IRC[23:30:40] <DeadYak> DaaT: :/[23:30:56] * _hugo sighs regarding the news article[23:30:58] <DaaT> about jack thompson and the virgina tech shootings: "He was on Fox around 3:15 Eastern (I think. Time may be off), almost in tears talking about how HL2, GTA, and the others prepared the guy for violence - notwithstanding his name hasn't even been released yet."[23:30:59] *** Jixt has joined #haiku[23:31:00] <DaaT> sheeesh[23:31:08] * DaaT pets _hugo[23:31:19] <DaaT> in a manly, axe murderer kinda way[23:31:24] <Thom_Holwerda> who is jack thompson-- oh wait[23:31:29] <Thom_Holwerda> thats that anti-game guy[23:31:29] <_hugo> who said it isnt capable of serving for a long time? besides, even if it isnt, it isnt "yet".[23:31:35] <[Beta]> Did the guy have a gravity gun, then?[23:31:37] <DeadYak> yeah, him[23:31:55] <Thom_Holwerda> im not really into the whole gaming thing[23:31:58] <DeadYak> [Beta]: LOL[23:32:01] <guildencrantz> Isn't Jack Thompson under review by the Bar?[23:32:02] <Thom_Holwerda> if it doesnt have mario in it, i dont care[23:32:05] <DeadYak> yeah he is[23:32:09] <DeadYak> Super Paper Mario is awesome[23:32:23] <DaaT> haven't played it[23:32:28] <DeadYak> you'll love it[23:32:29] <[Beta]> Mercury is a great puzzle game[23:32:46] * meianoite played God of War for the first time this Saturday[23:32:53] <meianoite> now I'm longing for urias' axes =P[23:33:00] <DeadYak> haha[23:33:17] <meianoite> and the eventual crossbow[23:33:18] *** Hoern has quit IRC[23:33:20] <DaaT> awesome game[23:33:21] <meianoite> and CHAINS![23:33:28] <Thom_Holwerda> _hugo: im sorry, but osnews reports on operating systems, and this is simply right up our alley[23:33:31] <DaaT> but the Wii rocks, sorry :P[23:33:36] <DeadYak> groupies lol[23:33:36] <Thom_Holwerda> ive worded it very carefully[23:33:45] * meianoite is considering getting a PS3[23:33:48] <guildencrantz> I love my wii.[23:33:50] <DaaT> meianoite ugh...[23:33:53] * DaaT pets his wii[23:33:57] * DaaT also pets his nintendo wii[23:33:58] <_hugo> Thom_Holwerda: im sorry, but i think it is rushed information. people are free to write about whatever they want of course.[23:34:01] * DeadYak too[23:34:06] <axeld> meianoite: after GSoC I hope :-)[23:34:11] <meianoite> it happens to be a cheap PPC computer with a HELL of SIMD units ;)[23:34:14] <DaaT> guildencrantz :)[23:34:17] <meianoite> axeld USING the money hehe[23:34:28] <guildencrantz> DaaT: Howdy. Miss your meds this afternoon?[23:34:31] <meianoite> then I hope I'll manage to port Haiku to it eventually[23:34:53] *** brecht_ has joined #haiku[23:35:04] <meianoite> it should beat the crappy Pegasus boards anyway[23:35:10] <DaaT> guildencrantz, meds? what meds?[23:35:11] <meianoite> (firmware-wise at least)[23:35:14] <DaaT> :)[23:35:18] <Thom_Holwerda> meianoite: i will personally fly or drive over to wherever you live if you manage to make a ppc wport and give you a bunch of flower and a kiss[23:35:22] <Thom_Holwerda> (on the cheeck, obviously)[23:35:31] <DaaT> Thom_Holwerda, so you want him NOT to make the port?[23:35:39] <[Beta]> so Thom, why the tea-cup & saucer for the osnews avatar?[23:35:45] <Thom_Holwerda> DaaT: heh didnt see that one coming[23:35:45] <geist> hey, I already ported it[23:35:46] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:35:50] <DaaT> ;)[23:35:50] <geist> these jokers just broke it :)[23:35:55] <meianoite> I'd much prefer if you wire me the money for the PS3 ;)[23:35:56] <Thom_Holwerda> [Beta]: its a cup of espress[23:35:57] <Thom_Holwerda> o[23:36:04] *** SiCuTDeUx has quit IRC[23:36:05] <meianoite> much rather prefer, I mean[23:36:11] <meianoite> ow[23:36:12] <Thom_Holwerda> my favourite kind of coffee[23:36:16] <meianoite> 2nd language, nevermind[23:36:35] <brecht_> evenin[23:36:35] <Thom_Holwerda> im, i think, the only student in my country with his own espresso machine[23:36:38] <Thom_Holwerda> ;)[23:37:15] *** oco has joined #haiku[23:37:16] <meianoite> btw Thom_Holwerda I hope you mean it in the strict PS3 sense, because as geist mentioned a PPC port does exist[23:37:21] <meianoite> only a little unmaintained[23:37:28] <brecht_> I decided to run BeOS until Haiku matures...[23:37:35] <Thom_Holwerda> well, let me specifiy it a nbit[23:37:42] <brecht_> I have some problems with R5 networking, it appears[23:37:45] <Thom_Holwerda> if i can run haiku r1 on my imac g3[23:37:49] <axeld> meianoite: it's not just unmaintained, it's incomplete, too[23:37:51] <Thom_Holwerda> i will be very happy[23:37:52] *** SiCuTDeUx has joined #haiku[23:38:01] <meianoite> axeld I was being kind ;)[23:38:01] <brecht_> is it possible there are some DHCP problems with R5?[23:38:10] <DaaT> ok, the guy commited suicide[23:38:11] <brecht_> leases are not being renewed, I think[23:38:24] <axeld> brecht_: that's very well possible[23:38:30] <meianoite> brecht_ in case you're running BONE... I used to have a script to handle DHCP[23:38:31] <geist> yeah, I'm being silly. there is still a ton of work to do on the ppc bits[23:38:39] <DeadYak> brecht_: R5's networking implemention tends to suck[23:38:40] <brecht_> should I switch to BONE?[23:38:47] <geist> and even with newos it wasn't even close to really working right[23:38:53] <geist> it just got the kernel up and running, nothing else[23:38:59] <meianoite> bone used not to grok my ISPs idea of DHCP =P`[23:39:07] <meianoite> nevermind net_server[23:39:20] <axeld> It at least boots into the kernel debugger (no boot device found) on my iBook - that's at least a start :-)[23:39:30] <meianoite> but the script spoonfed the address to BONE, then it worked OK ;)[23:39:47] <axeld> brecht_: do you have to use DHCP?[23:39:53] <brecht_> axeld: yes[23:40:00] <brecht_> I'm on a uni WAN[23:40:11] <Thom_Holwerda> axeld: are there any "official" plans for ppc g3/4/5 support?[23:40:21] <brecht_> and I can't login if the address wasn't acquired by DHCP[23:40:23] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[23:40:24] <Thom_Holwerda> or si that more of a "we'll see" kind of thing?[23:40:36] <axeld> Thom_Holwerda: I'm not sure about official, but at least I want to see my PPC hardware supported one day[23:40:43] <brecht_> I don't seem to have DHCP problems on the small network at home though[23:40:50] <Thom_Holwerda> axeld: ok, thats good news in any case[23:40:54] <brecht_> but I can't remember if that's plain R5 or BONE[23:41:07] <meianoite> Thom_Holwerda I believe it's somewhat tied to how well other opensourced OSs handle these machines. if OpenBSD can grok them, I believe we'll eventually get there[23:41:08] <Thom_Holwerda> my imac g3 currently runs os9 and while i love os9, it's slow as hell[23:41:15] <PulkoMandy> +++[23:41:17] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[23:41:27] <DeadYak> I'd like to see Haiku running on one of my BeBoxes some day :)[23:41:39] <Thom_Holwerda> DeadYak: you have, like, more than 1?[23:41:44] <DaaT> i'd like to see Haiku running[23:41:44] <DeadYak> I have 2.[23:41:45] <meianoite> Thom_Holwerda I have a RevD iMac G3, 333MHz. runs OS9 "like butter"[23:41:46] * DaaT hides[23:41:49] <meianoite> (R) Steve Jobs[23:41:51] * DaaT also kicks DeadYak for that[23:41:54] <DeadYak> both 66MHz variants but...[23:42:02] <Thom_Holwerda> since i got my Mac Cube[23:42:18] <Thom_Holwerda> the bebox is th eonly computer n my "to kill for" list[23:42:26] <Thom_Holwerda> left on my lst*[23:42:31] <DeadYak> Thom_Holwerda: one of 'em used to belong to Chris Herborth, I bought it off him[23:42:53] <Thom_Holwerda> i dont even think there is a bebox in The Netherlands[23:43:02] <meianoite> and it also manages to run Tiger in a reasonably decent fasion. 384MB of RAM, though. never managed to find an extra 256MB low-density PC100/133 SO-DIMM[23:43:07] <DeadYak> yeah, seemed like it the one year I brought one to BG[23:43:16] *** Sil2100 has quit IRC[23:43:17] <Thom_Holwerda> BG?[23:43:22] <brecht_> what's the legal status of the BeOS Max version?[23:43:22] <DeadYak> BeGeistert[23:43:25] <Thom_Holwerda> ok[23:43:36] <DeadYak> brought one of my BeBoxes with me back in April 2003 or whenever it was[23:43:39] <brecht_> is it allowed to repackage the Be PE?[23:43:44] <DaaT> i miss begeistert in dusseldorf[23:43:49] <meianoite> so Thom_Holwerda I can't see how your G3 would crawl to OS 9 =/[23:43:53] <DeadYak> DaaT: you miss sharing the bed you mean :P[23:44:03] <DaaT> that too[23:44:06] <meianoite> touche[23:44:06] <DaaT> and the room with Bernd[23:44:07] <DaaT> :D[23:44:07] <Thom_Holwerda> meianoite: i dont know either, i just think our perception is different[23:44:11] <DaaT> wild BG!!![23:44:18] <Grackle_> ls[23:44:20] <Grackle_> ..[23:44:25] <DeadYak> DaaT: nothing beats Konrad in Bernd's car[23:44:35] <DaaT> :D[23:44:46] *** Grackle_ is now known as Grackle[23:44:50] <meianoite> OS9 is incredibly zippy when you turn off VM. but that does require a certain amount of RAM to spare...[23:45:30] <DaaT> ahhhh.. putten steak at 4am[23:45:41] <meianoite> DaaT isso vai te fazer mal, menino[23:45:45] <DaaT> when is BG going back to dusseldorf, anyone know? 2008?[23:45:49][23:46:10] <meianoite> carnivorismos pre-matutinos ;)[23:46:16] <DaaT> ahhh :D[23:46:24] <meianoite> pesadelos, no minimo[23:46:27] <Thom_Holwerda> meianoite: turn off vm? how mouch ram is needed than?[23:46:28] <Thom_Holwerda> then*[23:46:32] <Thom_Holwerda> mine has, like, i dont know[23:46:35] <Thom_Holwerda> let me find it[23:46:35] <kokito> carnivorismos pre-matutinos??? :P[23:46:44] <DaaT> lol kokito[23:46:56] <meianoite> I guess 128MB is ok, it's not like you'd be running Firefox 2.0 there =P[23:46:57] <Thom_Holwerda> meianoite: 96mb of ram[23:46:59] <kokito> not lol. LOL![23:47:31] <DaaT> :)[23:48:04] <DaaT> \o/[23:48:06] <DaaT> |o|[23:48:09] <DaaT> \o/[23:48:22] * DaaT exercises[23:48:42] <Thom_Holwerda> DaaT: do you *need* to share that with us? ;)[23:48:59] *** Jixt has quit IRC[23:49:03] <meianoite> kokito daat decidio tener barbacoa en el medio de la madrugada... loco :D[23:49:04] <DaaT> sharing is nice[23:49:05] <DaaT> :P[23:49:09] <brecht_> what's a good IDE for BeOS?[23:49:09][23:49:14] * DeadYak has flashbacks to the "DaaT's The News" site idea back in the day[23:49:16] <DaaT> que loco que nada :)[23:49:43] <meianoite> LOL LOL LOL[23:49:43] <DaaT> DeadYak :D[23:49:44] <petterhj-> brecht_: BeIDE :)[23:49:44] <kokito> ah, meianoite. yo estaba pensando en otro tipo de "carne" cosa[23:49:55] * DeadYak pets Eddie + terminal[23:49:59] <DaaT> kokito, pervert :P[23:50:03] <meianoite> o_O[23:50:08] <meianoite> ay, canibalismos.[23:50:35] <kokito> silverpower, y encima compartiendo la habitacion con Bernd... hmmm...[23:50:45] <meianoite> parrillada de chicas ;D[23:50:55] <DaaT> kokito, ciumes? :P[23:51:08] <brecht_> petterhj-: ok, just wanna make sure I'm not missing out on any others :)[23:51:10] <DaaT> kokito, y compartiendo una cama con DeadYak :D[23:51:15] <silverpower> hmm?[23:51:30] <DeadYak> DaaT: you loved every minute of it, admit it[23:51:35] <DaaT> of course I did[23:51:55] <DaaT> and the 2 horses in the field next to the hotel..[23:51:56] <DaaT> ah the horses...[23:51:57] <DaaT> :D[23:52:04] <kokito> sorry, silverpower, I meant to write "si" and the auto-completion kicked in :)[23:52:16] <kokito> DaaT, oh oh...[23:52:16] <DaaT> and walking almost 10K to the hotel, dragging the luggage[23:52:22] <meianoite> kokito tomara que DaaT no hay passado ningun sudor nocturno devido a su proximidad to Bern ;)[23:52:23] <DeadYak> DaaT: hush :P[23:52:27] <DaaT> after 2 train rides plus 3 bus rides[23:52:36] <DeadYak> you took the scenic route *g*[23:52:42] *** kr1stof has left #haiku[23:52:48] <DaaT> well, I did meet that blonde girl ;[23:52:49] <DaaT> ;)[23:52:55] <meianoite> *a Bernd[23:52:55] <DeadYak> :P[23:53:11] <DaaT> gorgeous[23:53:22] <DaaT> no bed sharing with her though, unfortunately[23:53:45] *** jevin has quit IRC[23:54:06] <meianoite> DaaT stop trying to dispute how many chicks you had because of BeOS[23:54:12] <meianoite> I'm still on the lead here[23:54:13] <meianoite> :D[23:54:28] <DaaT> because of beos? none[23:54:29] <DeadYak> are they the kind with feathers?[23:54:43] <DaaT> :D[23:55:06] <meianoite> not *because* in a causal sense per se, but there was some loose relation...[23:55:15] <DeadYak> loose hm?[23:55:38] <meianoite> DeadYak the kind with long legs and great looks in general[23:55:47] <DeadYak> meianoite: ahh, the goats[23:55:51] * DeadYak hides[23:56:00] <meianoite> or flamingoes[23:56:01] <meianoite> ;)[23:56:12] <DaaT> lol[23:56:27] <DaaT> SHEEP![23:56:34] <Thom_Holwerda> meianoite: chicks through BeOS? that'd be the day[23:56:36] <meianoite> but I can see how yaks find goats great looking[23:56:58] <meianoite> (or can I? ugh)[23:57:09] <brecht_> generally even talking about computers scares women[23:57:11] <DeadYak> hmm hmm....[23:57:46] <meianoite> brecht_ ever watched Serial Experiments Lain?[23:57:57] <meianoite> that one was an anime fan[23:58:02] <brecht_> never heard of it[23:58:13] <brecht_> I'm not into anime[23:58:20] <meianoite> if you have the chance, watch it some time. then just join the dots :)[23:58:21] <DaaT> BeOS Matrix gang: http://galeria.iscomputeron.com/main.php?g2_itemId=213[23:58:24] <brecht_> that's probably why :)[23:58:56] <petterhj-> whos the not-so-matrix?[23:59:05] <brecht_> are LibPak installers always so slow to show anything?[23:59:06] <meianoite> but here's a hint: the "to Be continued" sentence was capitalized and coloured in a *very* distinctive way[23:59:13] <DaaT> petterhj-, with the bike?[23:59:21] <petterhj-> yea[23:59:27] <DaaT> charlie clark[23:59:56] <petterhj-> ah.. where was that? Dusseldorf?