[00:00:36] *** Korli has joined #haiku
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[00:02:43] <Korli> evening
[00:02:56] <_hugo> hi korli
[00:03:25] <Korli> _hugo how are you ? :)
[00:03:50] <_hugo> good :-) and you?
[00:07:24] <Korli> fine, back home now :)
[00:07:39] <Korli> are you connected on Haiku ?
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[00:08:11] <_hugo> Korli: not at the moment. working on some code right now
[00:08:20] <mmu_man> hmm the usb controllers are listed though
[00:08:23] <mmu_man> odd
[00:08:25] <mmu_man> oh well, need to sleep anyway
[00:08:54] <Korli> _hugo nice :)
[00:09:01] <Korli> mmu_man talking about ?
[00:09:20] <mmu_man> usb stack not showing any sign of life
[00:09:34] <Korli> on Haiku ?
[00:09:39] <mmu_man> yes
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[00:09:50] <siarzhuk> ohci controller?
[00:10:08] <mmu_man> don't remember
[00:10:13] <Korli> mmu_man even in the serial log ?
[00:10:14] <mmu_man> think so
[00:10:26] <mmu_man> syslog but it wasn't enabled
[00:10:35] <mmu_man> last I got was it saying "nothing found"
[00:10:46] <mmu_man>  KERN: usb_ehci: no devices found
[00:10:46] <mmu_man>  KERN: usb_uhci: no devices found
[00:10:47] <mmu_man>  KERN: USB Stack: no bus managers available
[00:11:40] <mmu_man> I have both an ehci and 2 ohci IIRC
[00:11:59] <mmu_man>  $ listdev |grep USB
[00:12:00] <mmu_man>  PCI bus, device #6: Serial Bus Controller (USB) [c|3|10]
[00:12:00] <mmu_man>  PCI bus, device #7: Serial Bus Controller (USB) [c|3|10]
[00:12:01] <mmu_man>  PCI bus, device #8: Serial Bus Controller (USB) [c|3|20]
[00:13:01] <mmu_man> anyway, n8
[00:13:08] <Korli> night
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[00:16:44] <Korli> _hugo where do you live ?
[00:16:50] <_hugo> Korli: Portugal
[00:17:23] <Korli> good, I didn't know anyone there yet :)
[00:17:38] <_hugo> eheh
[00:17:43] <Korli> which city ?
[00:17:46] <_hugo> nice place to be (sometimes). Sunny
[00:17:58] <_hugo> Korli: i'm near Oporto, in a city called Aveiro
[00:20:26] <meianoite> well, I'm off for tonight
[00:20:33] <meianoite> bye:)
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[00:20:48] <Korli> _hugo Oporto = Porto ?
[00:20:54] <_hugo> Korli: yep
[00:21:13] <Korli> _hugo learning everyday :)
[00:21:24] <_hugo> Oporto is actually what the british call it, we call it Porto
[00:21:43] <_hugo> as in "Vinho do Porto", Porto's wine
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[00:24:12] <Korli> _hugo ok
[00:24:47] <_hugo> eheh, anyway, back to coding :-)
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[00:32:40] <cizra> Hmm.
[00:32:53] <cizra> Running 'locate' won't work, because /var/locatedb is missing.
[00:33:11] <cizra> Running 'updatedb' doesn't work, because "Operation not allowed".
[00:34:10] <Korli> cizra beta testing ? :)
[00:34:14] <cizra> /bin/updatedb is a sh script
[00:34:15] <cizra> yeah
[00:34:29] <cizra> And although it has shebang in the beginning, something's not reckognizing it.
[00:34:48] <cizra> Then, when running sh /bin/updatedb manually,
[00:35:01] <cizra> /bin/updatedb: line 105: frcode: command not found
[00:35:12] <cizra> (at least Haiku has vi)
[00:35:26] <cizra> ooh, it's even Vim
[00:35:37] <Grackle> Yeah. :)
[00:36:02] <cizra> Anyway, here's 2 bugs.
[00:36:07] <cizra> first, shebang doesn't work
[00:36:21] <cizra> second, $frcode is something strange and won't run.
[00:36:56] <cizra> hmm.
[00:36:56] <cizra> no
[00:37:04] <CIA-17> stippi * r20684 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/filetypes/ (FileTypes.icons.rdef FileTypes.rdef IconView.cpp):
[00:37:04] <CIA-17> * added vector icons for application and supported types
[00:37:04] <CIA-17> * added "icon heap" icon
[00:37:04] <CIA-17> * implemented loading vector icon for "icon heap"
[00:37:13] <cizra> /bin/updatedb doesn't have execute perm set.
[00:37:18] <cizra> That's the real problem.
[00:37:25] <Korli> cizra could be
[00:37:48] <cizra> Also "ls -l" shows links, not additional information like in Linux.
[00:38:05] <CIA-17> stippi * r20685 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/backgrounds/Backgrounds.rdef: * created vector icon
[00:38:08] <cizra> (despite what ls --help says)
[00:38:15] <cizra> hmm, no
[00:38:30] <cizra> ls -l shows the traditional stuff in the current dir
[00:38:37] <cizra> but ls -l /bin shows a bunch of crap.
[00:38:42] <cizra> Something involving links.
[00:38:43] <cizra> Try it.
[00:40:12] <Korli> cizra you can report bugs on http://dev.haiku-os.org/  . Just make sure they don't exist already, and mention the svn revision for accuracy
[00:40:43] <cizra> How to find out the revision?
[00:41:06] <cizra> haiku-os.org is IPv4-only )
[00:41:08] <cizra> )=
[00:41:39] <Korli> cizra in the About window
[00:41:48] <cizra> Ah, thanks.
[00:42:13] <cizra> There's no 'file' command. Is that intended?
[00:42:26] <Korli> what's "file" ?
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[00:42:53] <cizra> It tells you the type of the file. For example:
[00:42:57] <Grackle> ls -l works properly for me
[00:43:05] <cizra> $ file lojban_peg_parser.jar
[00:43:06] <cizra> lojban_peg_parser.jar: Zip archive data, at least v2.0 to extract
[00:43:10] <cizra> Grackle: Try ls -l /bin
[00:43:24] <gr00ber> hahaha
[00:44:16] <gr00ber> "CIA-17 stippi * r20685 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/backgrounds/Backgrounds.rdef: * created vector icon"
[00:44:19] <Korli> cizra there is no bin command to display the type, you can use the Tracker for this
[00:44:20] <gr00ber> And a fair share of the Google session video is about vectored icons. What's this obsession with icons?
[00:44:22] <Grackle> It appears to be a link to /boot/bin, so ls -l /boot/bin, and I get a list of l executables and a few links.
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[00:45:06] <Korli> Grackle /boot/beos/bin :)
[00:45:07] <Grackle> gr00ber, they are scalable and small and pretty. That's all.
[00:45:14] <gr00ber> exactly
[00:45:46] <Grackle> Er, right Korli, I wasn't looking at my haiku screen when I typed that.
[00:46:25] <cizra> Oh, OK, now I see my mistake. ls is working as it's supposed to work.
[00:46:26] <Grackle> Well I wouldn't call it an obsesssion, and documenting the fact that you changed something isn't 'obsessing' over it either
[00:47:32] <petterhj-> BeOS has always been famous for it's icons, which also is a goal for Haiku ;)
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[00:47:56] <gr00ber> yes, but that's just lame
[00:48:09] <Grackle> :P
[00:48:11] <gr00ber> haiku should become famous for beeing stable and fast
[00:48:31] <Grackle> Stability and speed doesn't require crappy icons.
[00:48:39] <petterhj-> it will, but important things first ;)
[00:48:42] <gr00ber> no, but it does require focus on the right things :)
[00:49:16] <Grackle> Well maybe you should complain to the people making icons and tell them to get to work on some code.
[00:49:22] <gr00ber> will do
[00:49:29] <Grackle> Who cares if they can write code, they shouldn't be wasting time on icons.
[00:49:40] <gr00ber> baram
[00:49:52] <gr00ber> and to be honest, XP's non-vectorized icons look better, so... yeah, i'll go tell'em a few word of truth
[00:50:19] <petterhj-> I hope you're ironic now.
[00:50:20] <Grackle> I think many people here would disagree with you on that,
[00:50:31] <Grackle> Hm, indeed.
[00:50:59] <gr00ber> nah, just annoyed that my smp box hangs with haiku, so i'm kinda in the "get the friggin' kernel stable" mood
[00:51:13] <Grackle> ah
[00:51:16] <gr00ber> no amount of icon beauty helps
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[00:51:39] <_hugo> gr00ber: fix it then
[00:51:49] <gr00ber> yeah, right
[00:52:32] <_hugo> you see, you people complain a lot. i believe you forget people work on haiku for fun, on their free time.
[00:52:39] <_hugo> so instead of complaining, you could help
[00:52:45] <gr00ber> i am
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[00:53:20] <petterhj-> you sounds like Loupsian. Complaining is not helping.
[00:53:27] <nucklehead> it's not
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[00:54:00] <pickleprick> so true
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[00:54:21] <Korli> _hugo you must be having a lot of fun, given the work you do on Haiku :)
[00:54:28] <Grackle> hehe
[00:54:51] <Grackle> What do people think about adding some sort of manpage-like function to haiku?
[00:55:13] <_hugo> Korli: well, its rewarding to fix stuff and in general its fun to solve problems / write code. thats at least my feeling
[00:55:42] <umccullough> Grackle, first the documentation must exist ;)
[00:55:56] <Grackle> umccullough, it does for a lot of the stuff.
[00:56:10] <Korli> Grackle you mean like "man ls" ?
[00:56:17] <Grackle> yes
[00:56:22] <Korli> _hugo agreed
[00:56:37] <Korli> Grackle ls --help ?
[00:56:59] <Grackle> Yeah, the --help switch works for a lot of stuff, but that's nowhere near as helpful as a manpage would be.
[00:57:14] <umccullough> there was some discussion on the mailing list years ago about an HTML-driven man page style tool
[00:57:26] <Grackle> Some programs don't even explain their options with --help, they just list them.
[00:57:37] <Grackle> I don't see why it needs to be HTML-driven.
[00:57:40] <umccullough> Grackle, those are probably the ones without documentation
[00:58:30] <Grackle> Not necessarily. cd doesn't give any very helpful help output
[00:58:46] <Grackle> Not that it's a very complex command.
[00:59:00] <umccullough> Grackle, my (unobvious) point was - that something like "man" was brought up on the mailing list and it turned into a full blown discussion about what could be done differently for Haiku
[00:59:17] <Grackle> Oh, right, that's fine.
[00:59:24] <umccullough> that's how it goes generally :/
[00:59:27] <Grackle> hehe
[01:00:38] <Grackle> yeah, I think it could benefit from a manpage-like utility. Perhaps something that could print out documentation in the terminal the way man does in linux, and a gui system in 'Help.'
[01:01:01] * Grackle isn't sure where 'Help' would go or be
[01:01:07] <[Beta]> if its going to print out in the terminal, it could always be, man :p
[01:01:09] <cizra> OK, what's the right component to assign the bug to?
[01:01:17] <cizra> (about updatedb not working/frcode not present)
[01:01:49] <[Beta]> replacing troff with html as a backend seems reasonable.
[01:01:58] <Grackle> I guess so, Beta. Perhaps with prettier formatting for the GUI front end.
[01:02:01] <Korli> cizra Applications/Command line tools ?
[01:02:09] <Grackle> Heh, you beat me to it.
[01:02:17] <cizra> Aha, thanks.
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[01:03:01] <Korli> Grackle documentation could be a third party opportunity :)
[01:03:07] <soapdog> Hello Folks!
[01:03:14] <Grackle> Third party meaning me?
[01:03:15] <[Beta]> hi soapdog
[01:03:35] <Korli> Grackle dunno
[01:03:41] <Korli> hi soapdog
[01:03:48] <[Beta]> Korli, you mean stuff contributors could work on ?
[01:04:09] <cizra> Hooray, done. http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1156
[01:04:20] <cizra> Should I keep digging?
[01:04:35] <Grackle> Well, it seems like as good a place to start as any. I'm just beginning to learn C, but I've been doing a lot with computers and other programming languages, so I should be able to get somewhere with it.
[01:04:35] <[Beta]> please do
[01:04:52] <[Beta]> the more bugs found, the more bugs possibly fixed.
[01:05:11] <cizra> Grackle: Consider that system programming's a difficult thing.
[01:05:34] <Grackle> cizra, we're talking about making a documentation system.
[01:05:41] <cizra> Ahh.
[01:06:07] <umccullough> Grackle, man is in the haiku repo
[01:06:12] <umccullough> part of coreutils
[01:06:18] <Korli> [Beta] we don't provide man pages atm, so if someone could provide a package
[01:06:23] <soapdog> what kind of documentation system are you thinking of?
[01:07:06] <Grackle> soapdog, a man-like system for the command line, with a full fledged GUI application to go with it.
[01:07:11] <[Beta]> k
[01:07:18] <Grackle> umccullough, oh really, how do I get it on my haiku build?
[01:07:25] <umccullough> add it as a target in the image :)
[01:07:27] <Korli> cizra are you able to build a Haiku image ?
[01:07:34] <Grackle> okay
[01:07:37] <umccullough> Grackle, take a look at UserBuildConfig.sample
[01:07:38] <CIA-17> stippi * r20686 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/midiplayer/MidiPlayer.rdef: * icon contained some left over unused paths
[01:07:41] <cizra> w00t
[01:07:44] <cizra> Network works
[01:07:51] <cizra> Korli: What do you mean?
[01:07:58] <Korli> build from sources
[01:08:01] <cizra> With the help of a computer and a compiler, probably.
[01:08:11] <cizra> Compile it by hand and write an ELF or something, no.
[01:08:23] <cizra> Why do you ask?
[01:08:35] * cizra got a bug in netcat
[01:08:49] <soapdog> I think haiku needs some kind of rich documetation system, man would not be consistent with the overall user experience, like doing everything from GUI but using terminal for simple help.
[01:08:50] <Korli> cizra because you could try to add "frcode" to the Haiku image, as it seems missing
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[01:09:44] <cizra> Korli: OK, I'll read the docs and try to get it.
[01:10:03] <soapdog> ... even if the gui thing is able to display manpages.
[01:10:18] * soapdog needs more coffee...
[01:10:29] <cizra> Members.. Having an account in the Trac doesn't count as being a member, right?
[01:10:48] <[Beta]> cizra, what do you mean by members?
[01:10:56] <cizra> SVN access
[01:10:59] <umccullough> ha, rman is in the haiku repo also
[01:11:08] <[Beta]> cizra, heh, no :)
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[01:11:20] <Grackle> soapdog, well maybe they should be two seperate systems. I dunno.
[01:11:21] <[Beta]> # TODO: Must be done in HaikuImage.
[01:11:21] <[Beta]> #MakeLocate frcode : [ FDirName $(HAIKU_ETC_DIR) libexec locate ] ;
[01:11:23] <[Beta]> heh
[01:11:37] <cizra> OK, I'll try regular access first.
[01:12:04] <umccullough> cizra, everyone has anonymouse SVN access...
[01:12:10] <umccullough> anonymous even
[01:12:13] <soapdog> Grackle: I think one could do a simple manpages GUI wrapper using Yab...
[01:12:19] <cizra> umccullough: Yeah, I know.
[01:12:42] <cizra> Anyway, I found a nice shiny bug in something, probably netcat.
[01:12:47] <[Beta]> I'd disagree with anyone using Yab for system utils
[01:13:05] <soapdog> [Beta]: and you're right, but it's good for prototyping stuff.
[01:13:07] <[Beta]> two systems would seem ott for documentation.
[01:13:15] <umccullough> yeah, that seems like an unnecessary dependency, and Yab is not likely to be bundled with core Haiku
[01:13:16] <cizra> So, fire up netcat -l -p someport on your Linux box
[01:13:17] <CIA-17> stippi * r20687 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/media/media.rdef: * created vector icon
[01:13:27] <cizra> and inside Haiku, netcat yourIP someport
[01:13:31] <cizra> type something and press enter.
[01:13:50] <cizra> The cursor should go to the next line, it doesn't — it stays on the same, just jumps to the beginning.
[01:14:09] <cizra> Seems like it's getting CR, but no LF.
[01:14:10] <Grackle> soapdog, is a Yab application elegant enough to include in the system?
[01:14:18] <Korli> cizra Terminal bug ?
[01:14:24] <cizra> Might be.
[01:14:32] <Grackle> I know other *BASIC systems like RealBASIC are rather asstastic.
[01:14:37] <[Beta]> what you'd probably do, is write a minimal html parser for man, and it'd reuse the docs you've got for the "gui" help.
[01:15:17] <umccullough> links and FlyingTroll :)
[01:15:34] * [Beta] shudders
[01:15:37] <umccullough> lol
[01:15:41] <soapdog> Grackle: yab is good to create applications, one can easily prototype his app in yab to see if the concept works, then when he is happy with the UI and stuff, he can work in C/C++. I like yab, for small utilities it is very nice.
[01:16:01] <umccullough> http://polyglotman.sourceforge.net/
[01:16:07] <umccullough> that's already in the haiku repo as well
[01:16:10] <Korli> [Beta] code and bigram should be thrown away, only frcode seems to be needed
[01:16:24] <[Beta]> Korli, I really dont know enough about it, sorry :)
[01:16:39] <Korli> Grackle on BeOS we used to have Html man pages
[01:17:04] <Korli> [Beta] that was if you want to provide a patch :)
[01:17:05] <Grackle> Oh, I missed your comment on UserBuildConfig.sample, umccullough. *goes to look at that now*
[01:17:05] <[Beta]> yeah, frcode is just for db compression. Why does it need updatedb anyhow?
[01:17:22] <[Beta]> Korli, ah. No working compile farm atm.
[01:17:24] <Grackle> Hmm Korli, I had no idea.
[01:17:27] * [Beta] pokes umccullough, fancy it?
[01:17:31] <cizra> Anyway, I can't decide where the bug's hidden, in terminal or in netcat.
[01:17:36] <cizra> How to determine it?
[01:17:46] <umccullough> [Beta], fancy... what? a build farm?
[01:17:49] <[Beta]> Grackle, the Be Book (the API docs) came in HTML
[01:18:06] <[Beta]> umccullough, or _anything_ to build on!
[01:18:07] <Korli> cizra try to dump the output to a file, open it with StyledEdit
[01:18:23] <umccullough> [Beta], you need something built?
[01:18:34] <cizra> Also
[01:18:39] <cizra> when I send netcat ^C
[01:18:47] <cizra> it doesn't die, it says " punt!"
[01:19:20] <[Beta]> umccullough, nah, just to see if adding "frcode" into HaikuImage works.
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[01:19:23] <Korli> cizra it doesn't mean anything to me :)
[01:19:30] <umccullough> [Beta], let me update my image :P
[01:19:33] <cizra> yeah, me too. It should die.
[01:19:46] <Korli> umccullough for ticket 1156
[01:20:22] <umccullough> punt! would be an american football term
[01:20:27] <umccullough> i assume ;)
[01:20:31] <cizra> Korli: Hmm, you said to dump the output.
[01:20:34] <cizra> Can't be done actually.
[01:20:42] <cizra> Because it's the local echo that's broken.
[01:20:45] <[Beta]> cizra, _hugo only added netcat in the last week, its a work in progress :)
[01:20:47] <cizra> Stuff comes out the other end just fine.
[01:21:04] <cizra> Well, tell him it's a bit raw.
[01:21:07] <umccullough> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=punt
[01:21:13] <Korli> cizra our tty module isn't exactly out of bugs
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[01:22:02] <[Beta]> its also an old Irish pound.
[01:22:11] <_hugo> i'm here, and the issue cizra is reporting regarding netcat (not that i think it's particularly important right now to have a "bug-free" netcat), is regarding the terminal handling, and not netcat itself
[01:22:18] <umccullough> "
[01:22:18] <umccullough> The official currency of the Republic of Ireland prior to the comming of the Euro.
[01:22:29] <cizra> _hugo: What about that " punt!"?
[01:22:40] <_hugo> cizra: can you read C?
[01:22:44] <cizra> yep
[01:22:51] <cizra> (unless it's too difficult)
[01:22:52] <CIA-17> stippi * r20688 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/tracker/filetype/ (FileType.rdef Jamfile):
[01:22:52] <CIA-17> * added same vector icon as FileTypes preflet, but somehow the
[01:22:52] <CIA-17>  resources are not added for the "Addon" target type? Ingo?
[01:22:55] <umccullough> punt probably refers to "kick"
[01:22:58] <_hugo> cizra: so get the source, and grep for "punt" in the source
[01:23:01] <cizra> OK
[01:23:09] <[Beta]> ^   bail (" punt!");
[01:23:33] <cizra> [Beta]: Where's that?
[01:23:42] <[Beta]> haiku/trunk/src/bin/network/nc/netcat.c
[01:23:52] <cizra> Thanks.
[01:24:19] <_hugo> bail() should leave though. there is an exit() there.
[01:24:54] <umccullough> punt is also generally something you do in American football when it's apparently you're not going to make a touchdown
[01:24:55] <cizra> Aha. Yes, I guess close(netfd) is the reason why I thought it hung.
[01:25:00] <cizra> Or.. What's that sleep(1) for?
[01:25:28] <_hugo> cizra: after it outputs punt, does it continue to function?
[01:25:43] <umccullough> Terminal probably just doesn't return a $
[01:25:53] <_hugo> if not, run "ps" and check the column further to the right, to see what it is waiting for
[01:25:54] <umccullough> i see it do that quite often
[01:27:00] <cizra> _hugo: No, it just hangs for a little while.
[01:27:05] <cizra> It won't send anything anymore.
[01:27:10] <cizra> Anyway, why's that sleep(1) there?
[01:27:52] <_hugo> cizra: that is the original source
[01:28:08] <cizra> Interesting.
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[01:28:38] <Korli> good night
[01:28:43] <_hugo> see you Korli
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[01:28:52] <cizra> I don't know where's that source from, but my netcat dies immediately after getting a sigint.
[01:29:28] <_hugo> cizra: that is the original netcat
[01:29:34] <_hugo> what are you comparing to?
[01:30:26] <cizra>        Netcat was written by a guy we know as the Hobbit <hobbit at avian dot org>.
[01:30:34] <cizra> I didn't find any other information on it.
[01:30:47] <cizra> It's the standard Ubuntu netcat, the one not supporting IPv6.
[01:31:02] <cizra> nc6 (a WAY more nifty netcat) dies immediately too.
[01:31:29] <_hugo> ubuntu's netcat is probably heavily patched
[01:32:52] <cizra> Might be.
[01:33:02] <cizra> Anyway, this delegates the bug to the terminal.
[01:33:37] <SoapDog_GSoC> anyone here ever succeded building haiku under an intel mac os x?
[01:34:10] <_hugo> SoapDog_GSoC: try Linux
[01:34:27] <Grackle> ...
[01:34:46] <Grackle> That wouldn't be successfully building haiku under intel mac OS X, now would it?
[01:34:59] <Grackle> That being said, I don't know of anyone who has.
[01:35:16] <Grackle> But me not knowing something about what goes on around here doesn't mean much.
[01:35:22] <_hugo> as far as i know, the building tools have not been developed for OSX
[01:35:35] <SoapDog_GSoC> _hugo: yes, I know we can do that in Linux, the case is, my main Zeta machine broke and till monday I'll not be able to buy a new motherboard for it, so I have a macbook and wondered if it was possible to build haiku with it.
[01:36:00] <_hugo> so its better to use a system which have been well tested for the development
[01:36:31] <Grackle> I guess you could use a vmware application in Mac OSX.
[01:36:44] <SoapDog_GSoC> I have VMWare fusion and parallels...
[01:36:53] <Grackle> er that's not the word I want
[01:37:02] <SoapDog_GSoC> I even have Linux in a virtual machine.
[01:37:47] <Grackle> Appliance. Vmware appliance, that's the phrase I was trying to think of.
[01:38:00] <SoapDog_GSoC> I just wondered why I could do it in Linux and could not do the same procedure in Mac OS X... I can build almost all kinds of apps from linux in Mac OS X with no problem.
[01:38:04] <Grackle> I guess you could try to use your virtual-linux machine.
[01:38:21] <Grackle> haiku uses a modified version of jam to build things
[01:38:30] <Grackle> Most other programs use make/autotools
[01:38:47] <SoapDog_GSoC> I'll try to build the modified version of jam...
[01:39:04] <SoapDog_GSoC> I could build englightenment 17 here... anything is possible.
[01:39:41] <cizra> Haiku is woefully slow )=
[01:39:46] <SoapDog_GSoC> if my slow network connection ever allows me to finish fetching the files from svn.
[01:40:01] <Grackle> hah
[01:40:17] <_hugo> cizra: haiku is under heavy development
[01:40:24] <cizra> I'm aware
[01:40:25] <Grackle> SoapDog_GSoC, haiku's jam can be found on the bottom of this page: http://haiku-os.org/downloads
[01:40:27] <SoapDog_GSoC> heck, if someone was dictating 1 and 0 on a telephone line to me would be faster.
[01:40:41] <Grackle> er, you know that
[01:40:49] * Grackle connects SoapDog_GSoC with soapdog, dur
[01:41:17] <SoapDog_GSoC> I am soapdog :-)
[01:41:24] <Grackle> I was recognizing the gestalt of your nick and completely ignoring the actual words
[01:41:57] <SoapDog_GSoC> I think you too need coffee! :D
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[01:42:15] <Grackle> Yes, probably.
[01:42:40] <SoapDog_GSoC> I was accepted as a student in the GSoC, will be working with the network preferences application.
[01:43:04] <Grackle> Awesome.
[01:43:21] <cizra> Hmm.. was it _hugo, who'll be writing the network kernel code?
[01:43:28] <cizra> (whatever the termin was for it)
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[01:43:59] <_hugo> cizra: i've been working on the network stack, yes.
[01:44:13] <cizra> Nice. Glad to see you aware of IPv6.
[01:44:19] <cizra> By the way,
[01:44:44] <cizra> I'd recommend nc6 over the standard netcat — it has WAY more features (like supporting IPv6 etc).
[01:45:14] <SoapDog_GSoC> my current problem is getting my PC up... during the last week all hell went loose. HD exploded and so did the videocard, I replaced them both just to discover that the motherboard AGP slot is broken and that thing needs replacement too.
[01:45:45] <Grackle> What happened, did your PSU die?
[01:45:58] <_hugo> cizra: i might look into it in the future, it's not really a priority right now. I added nc to test some TCP bits
[01:46:05] <cizra> myeah
[01:46:10] <cizra> nc is useful.
[01:47:28] <SoapDog_GSoC> Grackle: two problems happened, one was a failed partitioning that bricked the HD. and other was the AGP slot, I saw that the GeForce was not working but the onboard video was and though that the card was dead, and replaced the card... but in fact the AGP slot is broken, not the card...
[01:48:01] <SoapDog_GSoC> _hugo: I've been wondering, would it be good to make the network server scriptable?
[01:48:18] <Grackle> Huh, what an unfortunate coincidence.
[01:48:49] <SoapDog_GSoC> Grackle: monday I'll fix everything. and Haiku will soar on the new machine.
[01:49:03] <_hugo> SoapDog_GSoC: this has been somewhat discussed. you should talk with Waldemar
[01:49:22] <Grackle> SoapDog_GSoC, what are you doing to install haiku on your machine?
[01:49:32] <SoapDog_GSoC> _hugo: I'll thanks!
[01:50:21] <_hugo> no problem
[01:50:23] <SoapDog_GSoC> Grackle: right now I have it under VMWare fusion, but I plan to use Zeta on one partition and leave two other partitions for Haiku, one for "stable" working installation and other for "dangerous" (my code in it) installation.
[01:50:46] <Grackle> Ah, and you'll just dd the raw disk image to the partition?
[01:51:29] <Grackle> I'd like to try that with one of my machines. Can't do it with the laptop though, it uses AHCI SATA.
[01:51:31] <SoapDog_GSoC> Grackle: I planned to use that procedure described at the homepage to build and install to a bfs partition.
[01:51:53] <Grackle> Oh, could you link me?
[01:52:04] <SoapDog_GSoC> I am making a machine just for haiku with stuff that is known to work such as IDE drive, realtek8139 rev C...
[01:52:19] <Grackle> Good plan.
[01:53:23] * cizra starts building buildtools.
[01:53:30] <cizra> sed: file conftest.s1 line 68: unterminated `s' command
[01:53:35] *** mmadia_ is now known as mmadia
[01:53:38] <SoapDog_GSoC> http://haiku-os.org/documents/dev/getting_the_source_code there are instructions there to install it to a mounted partition... be aware that this probably destroys the partition.
[01:53:39] <cizra> test: 1: invalid: unexpected operator
[01:54:19] <Grackle> Yeah, I'm sure it does.
[01:54:48] <_hugo> cizra: are you following the instructions?
[01:55:25] <cizra> Yeah, I tried to.
[01:55:34] <_hugo> cizra: what command did you use?
[01:56:00] <SoapDog_GSoC> folks, I need to give a ride to my girl or I'll be a dead man soon... see you guys later!
[01:56:01] <cizra> ./configure   --build-cross-tools-gcc4 x86 ../buildtools/
[01:56:14] <cizra> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/956
[01:56:18] <cizra> Exactly the same problem
[01:56:27] <cizra> SoapDog_GSoC: Erm..
[01:56:37] <cizra> SoapDog_GSoC: Sure you have to tell us when your girl is going to ride you?
[01:56:50] <cizra> SoapDog_GSoC: Have fun, of course, but..
[01:57:19] <SoapDog_GSoC> cizra: english is not my native language... what I was trying to say is that she lost the last bus home and now I need to fetch her at the bus station and give her a ride home...
[01:57:29] <cizra> Well, yeah.
[01:57:34] <cizra> English is just so ambiguous.
[01:57:42] <SoapDog_GSoC> you should try portuguese.
[01:57:51] <cizra> You should try Lojban.
[01:58:06] <Grackle> :P
[01:58:29] <SoapDog_GSoC> I can curse in many languages but not lojban
[01:58:58] <SoapDog_GSoC> well, see you guys!
[01:59:10] <cizra> checking target system type... config.sub: invalid option --targeti586-pc-haiku
[01:59:11] <Grackle> http://xkcd.com/c191.html
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[01:59:24] <cizra> Grackle: Yeah, I'm one of them.
[01:59:39] <Grackle> hehe
[01:59:51] <Grackle> Looks like there should be an = there
[01:59:59] <cizra> yep.
[02:00:20] <cizra> I'm currently grepping for the right place.
[02:00:27] <cizra> Anyway, take a peek at this.
[02:00:28] <cizra> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/956
[02:00:31] <Grackle> Gah, my DNS is being rather feckless.
[02:00:38] <cizra> Submitted by me a whole time ago.
[02:00:59] <Grackle> I'm having trouble loading that.
[02:01:34] <Grackle> Couldn't load xkcd either, I just copy/pasted from a google search.
[02:01:35] <cizra> $ host xkcd.com
[02:01:36] <cizra> xkcd.com has address 74.52.112.162
[02:01:57] <Grackle> sciesnet.net is a holding ground for davean's sub-domains and a way of allowing universal unique resource resolution, it does not primarily support the HTTP protocol, this message is merely here to help the many of you confused by this. All content is handled by other URLs.
[02:02:01] <Grackle> poo
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[02:04:03] <cizra> So, did you try accessing it via IP?
[02:05:50] *** infamy has left #haiku
[02:06:02] <Grackle> That sciesnet.net message is what I got trying to go to the xkcd.com io
[02:06:03] <Grackle> ip
[02:06:14] <cizra> uhh.
[02:07:10] <Grackle> o.o I don't have host on this system
[02:08:14] <cizra> Grackle: http://imbi.ld.ttu.ee/tudengid/t040673/c191.html
[02:08:19] <cizra> A mirror created especially for you.
[02:09:00] <cizra> Tell me when you've admired it enough, I'll delete it afterwards.
[02:09:59] <Grackle> Oh, you didn't have to go to that trouble.
[02:10:09] <Grackle> Thanks though. My DNS seems to be working now.
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[02:10:21] <Grackle> $ hostx haiku-os.org
[02:10:22] <Grackle> haiku-os.org            A       66.98.214.35
[02:10:23] <Grackle> woo
[02:10:52] <cizra> Your DNS?
[02:10:57] <cizra> Just dump it and get another.
[02:11:09] <Grackle> Not mine.
[02:11:24] <cizra> I mean, you're not bound to your ISP's DNS.
[02:11:37] <Grackle> Nope, I don't use my ISP's DNS.
[02:11:47] <cizra> When I go hardcore-IPv6, I use an IPv6-capable DNS
[02:11:51] <cizra> of a competing ISP.
[02:11:58] <Grackle> hehe
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[02:14:45] <Grackle> I'm not sure what's going on with your buildtools, cizra
[02:14:59] <cizra> I am sure. They're broken, that's what's going on.
[02:16:03] <geist> dizzam
[02:19:17] <cizra> What does "dizzam" mean?
[02:20:18] <umccullough> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dizzam
[02:20:22] <_hugo> its french for pokemon
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[02:23:55] <_hugo> hm, sweet cappuccino
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[02:41:25] <CIA-17> stippi * r20689 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/fontdemo/FontDemo.rdef: * copied vector icon from font preflet
[02:53:26] * cizra is feeding forks to philosophers
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[03:30:44] <umccullough> hmm... is there an openssl 0.9.8 for BeOS compiled somewhere?
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[03:47:57] <JonathanThompson> Is there currently a working port of GDB for BeOS 5.03 available?
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[03:49:27] <umccullough> i wonder if haiku's gdb works in beos...
[03:49:57] <JonathanThompson> That would be interesting.
[03:50:07] <JonathanThompson> I suspect not, though.
[03:50:34] <JonathanThompson> I'd sincerely hope that a Haiku debugger interface doesn't use ports like BeOS has with the debugger nub.
[03:54:47] <umccullough> hmm.. been 2.5 hours building haiku :(
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[03:55:25] <umccullough> just passed 4600th target
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[04:15:59] <JonathanThompson> Amazing that someone on OSNews was dumb enough to suggest that something like PhotoShop would be a good application to do the work on the server side...
[04:16:07] <JonathanThompson> Then again, it IS OSNews...
[04:17:50] <mmadia> ... ?
[04:18:04] <JonathanThompson> Would you like the link to this foolishness, mmadia?
[04:18:12] <mmadia> the Haiku-Based max edition article?
[04:18:25] <JonathanThompson> ?
[04:18:28] <JonathanThompson> No connection.
[04:18:42] <JonathanThompson> http://osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=17698&comment_id=231024
[04:18:55] <mmadia> ah.
[04:19:11] <JonathanThompson> Helf posted something, and this was this idiot's reply.
[04:19:54] <JonathanThompson> And silly me, I typed up an explanation correcting the idiot... a few more minutes of my life that's likely been completely wasted on something that'll achieve no useful purpose ...
[04:19:59] *** stargater has quit IRC
[04:20:06] * mmadia switches browers tabs back to byo.com
[04:20:50] <JonathanThompson> Meanwhile, yesterday completed my second work week at Yahoo.
[04:21:04] <mmadia> schw---eeet
[04:21:07] <Grackle> ewww *imagines trying to draw on a tablet with a couple seconds of lag*
[04:21:12] <mmadia> and congrats
[04:21:17] <JonathanThompson> Thanks, mmadia.
[04:21:54] <JonathanThompson> Coinstar didn't work out due to budgeting issues:  I do have a standing offer to return if a full-time position manages to come into existence with a budget to pay for it.
[04:22:24] <JonathanThompson> There's something ironic about cash-flow issues at a place in the business Coinstar is in :)
[04:23:02] <JonathanThompson> But accountants actually do have a valuable reason to exist and muck up things, because they often help keep things from getting too mucked up when people start doing things under the table.
[04:23:49] <JonathanThompson> Yahoo right now is a 9 month contract, with no guarantees, but it's clearly a try-before-they-buy situation.
[04:41:11] <JonathanThompson> If your parents didn't have children, chances are good you won't be able to have children, either :)
[04:41:45] <mmadia> ....what about being adopted.
[04:43:01] * JonathanThompson wonders how mentally awake mmadia is :)
[04:44:02] <mmadia> not very.  but adopted children do have parents, who may be sterile.
[04:44:19] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20690 /haiku/trunk/ (7 files in 4 dirs): initial steps towards IPv4 Multicast Filter Delta API (RFC 3678)
[04:44:37] <Grackle> yay _hugo
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[04:45:05] * JonathanThompson wonders when will be the first time someone sets up a Haiku box as a webserver :)
[04:58:08] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, poorman is in the repo ;)
[04:58:21] * umccullough considers doing it...
[04:58:29] <JonathanThompson> Just to prove a point? :)
[04:59:00] <umccullough> just to stop you from wondering
[04:59:03] <umccullough> ;)
[04:59:18] <JonathanThompson> How well does Haiku do networking these days?  It's been several months since I downloaded and built it.
[04:59:31] <umccullough> hugo has been polishing things up lately
[04:59:36] <JonathanThompson> umccullough, there are far too many things for me to wonder about for you to ever stop me from wondering :)
[04:59:37] <umccullough> it's definitely been improving
[04:59:38] <mmadia> "Haiku serves up it's first webpage"     ;  )
[04:59:49] <mmadia> submitted by umccullough
[05:00:00] <umccullough> mmadia, how quickly can you beat me to it? ;)
[05:00:13] <JonathanThompson> mmadia has no life, so he should be able to do it quickly :P
[05:00:30] * mmadia checks his own pulse
[05:01:41] <umccullough> http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/haiku/haiku/trunk/src/apps/poorman
[05:01:53] <umccullough> ok, i'll do it
[05:03:06] * JonathanThompson notes mmadia hasn't reported the results of his test :)
[05:03:35] <JonathanThompson> I pronounce, "mmadia is dead to me!  He has no life!"
[05:03:40] <JonathanThompson> :P
[05:03:41] <mmadia> still waiting for test results.   4-6weeks.
[05:04:01] <umccullough> 1 beat every 4-6 weeks? - wow... must be a record
[05:04:35] <JonathanThompson> He'll live to be a million, but he'll have no life between the beats, as they're deadbeats :P
[05:05:04] * JonathanThompson wonders how many deadbeat cardiologists there are
[05:05:12] <Grackle> groan.
[05:05:20] <JonathanThompson> Never see a cardiologist that wears their heart on their sleeve.
[05:05:31] <JonathanThompson> Instead, go to one that's been trained to beat a stopping heart :)
[05:06:35] * _hugo needs a faster disk
[05:07:02] * JonathanThompson slips _hugo a disc
[05:07:13] * JonathanThompson calls a chiropractor for _hugo
[05:07:13] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: send it for real
[05:07:14] <_hugo> eheh
[05:07:40] <JonathanThompson> Can you use U160 SCSI drives? :)
[05:07:41] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20691 /haiku/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): support RFC 3678's Protocol-Independent setsockopt()s for IPv4 multicast.
[05:07:44] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, i'll have to change my NAT to point to my haiku box for port 80 ;)
[05:07:53] <_hugo> this 4200rpm disk isnt too happy about reading hundreds of source files
[05:08:38] <JonathanThompson> I'd have to clean it off, but I pretty much retired my 10K RPM U160 drive (36 GB) last year.
[05:08:49] <JonathanThompson> It was about 7 years old, and its mate was failing.
[05:09:23] <JonathanThompson> And I wanted to have some reasonable chance to run Haiku on this machine...
[05:10:08] * JonathanThompson wonders how forthcoming Adaptec would be with hardware details for implementing Haiku SCSI and FireWire drivers
[05:11:07] <_hugo> small break for a snack, brb
[05:11:26] * JonathanThompson breaks _hugo into larger chunks for efficiency
[05:13:00] <umccullough> _hugo, what disk do you have now?
[05:13:17] <JonathanThompson> A slow one, sounds like a laptop drive.
[05:13:33] <umccullough> yeah, i have  60gb 7200 in my dell lappy
[05:13:57] * JonathanThompson wonders how many Kibbles and Mega bits and bits and bits _hugo is eating on a regular basis
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[05:15:46] <_hugo> back
[05:15:55] <_hugo> umccullough: i have a 4200rpm disk
[05:16:00] <umccullough> size?
[05:16:15] <JonathanThompson> Is it one of those large (for the time) bigfoots?
[05:16:18] <_hugo> 70 or 80G
[05:16:38] <_hugo> its a laptop drive, in my mac mini
[05:16:38] <umccullough> holy shit, i didn't know they made 4200rpm disks that big!
[05:16:43] <umccullough> upgrade that bastard
[05:17:08] <_hugo> :-)
[05:17:12] <_hugo> im broke right now
[05:17:16] <JonathanThompson> I think he's hoping someone else will fund that initiative :)
[05:17:37] <_hugo> ill be able to upgrade it eventually. but i probably wont add a better disk for this machine
[05:17:50] <_hugo> s/for/to/
[05:18:01] <_hugo> fast laptop drives are too expensive
[05:18:17] <JonathanThompson> What are you running Haiku under?  VMWare under Linux on the mini?
[05:18:23] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: yes
[05:18:50] <Grackle> How much RAM do you have? You could always use a ramdisk if you have the memory for it.
[05:18:55] <_hugo> i have 1.25G
[05:19:07] <_hugo> its not enough to use as a ramdisk, or i would be using it :-)
[05:19:15] <JonathanThompson> To be truly silly, you should be running Windows XP under Parellels, that runs VMWare, that runs Linux, which runs VMWare, which runs Haiku :P
[05:19:22] <Grackle> Oh, how big is your haiku image?
[05:19:28] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: dont have enough ram for all of that :-)
[05:19:29] <Grackle> haha JonathanThompson
[05:19:39] <_hugo> Grackle: the problem isnt the size of the haiku image
[05:19:49] <Grackle> Oh?
[05:20:01] <_hugo> its the size of the sources and objects
[05:20:45] * JonathanThompson thinks that'd be a great screenshot to have of Haiku
[05:20:50] <_hugo> ah, it seems the disk is 5400rpm
[05:20:54] <_hugo> my bad. still too slow though
[05:20:56] <Grackle> Oh, the issue is with build speed, I see.
[05:21:13] <umccullough> 5400 is reasonable (as in - more common)
[05:21:16] <Grackle> meh I have a 5400rpm HD
[05:21:55] <JonathanThompson> Or, wait: even better:  Run Parallels under OS X, and under that, run XP, under that run VMWare, under that run Linux, which runs VMWare, that runs XP, that runs VMWare, that finally runs Haiku :P
[05:22:32] <JonathanThompson> <-- Has a truly perverted recursive sense of humor
[05:22:33] <_hugo> Grackle: are you doing haiku builds every 5 mins? :-)
[05:22:43] <_hugo> hugo at europa:~/build/haiku-gcc2 dot 95$ du -s -h .
[05:22:43] <_hugo> 869M    .
[05:22:51] <_hugo> hugo@europa:~/code/haiku$ du -s -h .
[05:22:51] <_hugo> 534M    .
[05:23:01] <_hugo> lots of stuff to read
[05:23:04] * JonathanThompson wonders how much RAM can be stuffed inside that mini
[05:23:13] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: 2G
[05:23:28] <JonathanThompson> That should be enough to do things quickly in, if you had it.
[05:23:40] <_hugo> im planning on upgrade to 2G soon, when i get some money
[05:23:59] <_hugo> on upgrading. eating too many words, should go back to coding :-)
[05:24:14] <JonathanThompson> One of these days I'll be upgrading this old system, which is far more moderate for RAM and CPU speed than your mini :)
[05:24:17] <umccullough> hi Minbari, nice to see you in #haiku :)
[05:24:52] <Minbari> it's been a while
[05:24:53] <Grackle> Hah hugo, no, I can see why you'd find that 5400rpm HD a bit lacking though.
[05:25:00] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: i used a g4 1Ghz with 512M of RAM for casual stuff. im talking about a development machine
[05:25:19] <JonathanThompson> My largest RAM configuration atm for my own machines is 320 megs :)
[05:25:45] <Grackle> o.o
[05:25:46] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: development machines?
[05:25:59] <JonathanThompson> I do development on it for my own stuff, yes.
[05:26:05] <JonathanThompson> I've built Haiku on it as well.
[05:26:06] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: what kind of development?
[05:26:10] <JonathanThompson> IDE :)
[05:26:15] <_hugo> sure, but what languages?
[05:26:19] <JonathanThompson> C++
[05:26:41] <JonathanThompson> The machine I use most is 256 megs, dual p3-450.
[05:27:00] <JonathanThompson> (faster than 5400 RPM hard drive, though)
[05:27:02] <cizra> Oooh. I haven't heard anything as beautiful for a LONG time.
[05:27:05] <cizra> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvnVdMpgQOk
[05:27:05] <_hugo> im sure you arent using it extensively to code, or else you had gotten something better
[05:27:39] <JonathanThompson> It has nothing to do with how much I use it as to why I've not gotten something better: it has been down to pure economics and either unemployment or uncertain employment futures.
[05:28:34] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: whatever reason :-) needing a better machine for whatever end is an economic reason as well. if you didnt get one, its because you didnt need one
[05:28:37] <JonathanThompson> Besides, I figure if I can have whatever I create be decent on this machine, most everyone else will be very happy with it on most anything running BeOS/Haiku, since not everyone has such updated machines.
[05:28:43] <_hugo> im sure you have a car for instance, as you need to drive to your work place
[05:28:50] <JonathanThompson> I do.
[05:29:05] <_hugo> so it all comes down to necessity :-) anyway
[05:29:08] <JonathanThompson> For my regular paycheck, I've used employer's machines.
[05:29:21] <_hugo> makes sense, i have no such availability right now
[05:29:28] <_hugo> <- back to code
[05:29:31] <JonathanThompson> Where I'm at currently, it'd take forever to do a build at work if I had this machine.
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[06:02:10] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20692 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/ipv4/ipv4.cpp: initial IPv4 multicast receive path.
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[07:15:13] <umccullough> _hugo, still awake?
[07:15:16] <_hugo> yep
[07:15:27] <_hugo> can't access SVN, have stuff to commit
[07:15:30] <umccullough> do you know how i would make PoorMan listen on port 80?
[07:15:44] <umccullough> doesn't seem to respond :P
[07:15:55] <_hugo> umccullough: not really, no. but i'll check, one sec
[07:16:09] <_hugo> TCP listening is working btw, i've tested with Vision
[07:16:11] <umccullough> i added to my image and it starts up...
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[07:17:21] <_hugo> hmm
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[07:18:12] <_hugo> saddly this Poorman
[07:18:16] <umccullough_h> everything appears to be working
[07:18:17] <_hugo> is just for shows :-)
[07:18:22] <_hugo> no network there at all
[07:18:24] <_hugo> just GUI
[07:18:25] <umccullough_h> _hugo yes, just for show :P
[07:18:31] <umccullough_h> oh
[07:18:34] <umccullough_h> no network?
[07:18:39] <_hugo> im looking at the source
[07:18:43] <umccullough_h> lame
[07:18:44] <_hugo> and there is no network code
[07:18:48] <umccullough_h> what a bummer!
[07:18:53] <umccullough_h> wonder if apache works...
[07:19:03] <umccullough_h> or even... R5's poorman
[07:19:07] <_hugo> bit harsh to starting the tests on apache right now :-)
[07:19:20] <_hugo> but maybe trying to compile something smaller like lighttpd or something like that
[07:19:26] <_hugo> R5's poorman does not work
[07:19:32] <umccullough_h> bummer
[07:19:34] <_hugo> not because of network, but because some method is missing
[07:19:45] <umccullough_h> missing symbol?
[07:19:47] <_hugo> yep
[07:19:51] <umccullough_h> might be easy to fix
[07:20:02] <umccullough_h> i'll look at it real quick
[07:20:03] <_hugo> i looked at it very quickly and didnt seem something trivial
[07:20:09] <umccullough_h> oh
[07:20:45] <_hugo> umccullough i would expect one of the available "light" httpds available in the net to compile and run in haiku
[07:21:43] <umccullough_h> _start_thread
[07:21:52] <_hugo> yep, there is no _start_thread in the Be API
[07:22:03] <umccullough_h> wtf then? - was it private?
[07:22:11] <_hugo> or maybe old R4 stuff
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[07:23:29] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20693 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/ (datalink_protocols/arp/arp.cpp protocols/ipv4/ipv4.cpp):
[07:23:29] <CIA-17> made IPv4's send path be multicast aware.
[07:23:29] <CIA-17>  - also added IP_MULTICAST_TTL support.
[07:23:38] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20694 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/ (ipv4/ipv4.cpp udp/udp.cpp): made UDP's send_data call into IPv4's, so we can handle of the datagram stuff in one place.
[07:25:19] <umccullough> what about RobinHood?
[07:25:27] <_hugo> umccullough didnt try it
[07:25:48] <umccullough> http://bebits.com/app/2463
[07:25:59] <umccullough> i'll grab it real quick
[07:26:34] <_hugo> let me know if it works
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[07:28:52] <umccullough> bah, i gotta install it on R5 cuz it's .pkg
[07:29:09] <_hugo> ah
[07:29:20] * JonathanThompson notes umccullough wanting to satisfy my earlier wonder :)
[07:30:30] <umccullough> yes...gotta satisfy JonathanThompson
[07:30:43] <umccullough> even if you're insatiable ;)
[07:30:47] * JonathanThompson wants Haiku R1.0 final NOW :)
[07:31:04] <umccullough> plus, it's good exercise of the netstack ;)
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[07:31:26] <JonathanThompson> Hey, Haiku needs torture testing ASAP :)
[07:31:34] <umccullough> my DHCP server is... crapped out...
[07:31:36] <_hugo> im pretty confident it will work, if the server isnt too weirdo. but even if it doesnt work, hopefully it is easily fixable
[07:32:08] <JonathanThompson> If it doesn't work, the question becomes: is it a flaw in the networking code, or a flaw in Robinhood?
[07:32:41] <_hugo> probably the former, since RobinHood worked in R4
[07:32:44] <umccullough> i'm certain it will be a flaw in Haiku somewhere ;)
[07:32:45] <_hugo> ugh, R5
[07:32:52] <JonathanThompson> "Want to see the forest of code in the webserver?  Sure would!"
[07:33:22] * JonathanThompson waits for reactions...
[07:34:28] * JonathanThompson considers not enough people know the names of enough things in the story to catch the reference before they take exception or terminate() unexpectedly my line of bad puns
[07:34:29] * umccullough would groan, but is too late
[07:34:30] <cizra> Dammit, my philosophers starve.
[07:35:01] <cizra> How do you debug Java applets, anyway?
[07:35:09] <JonathanThompson> Poor philosohers :)
[07:35:12] <cizra> Yeah
[07:35:15] <_hugo> cizra: with sillyness
[07:35:22] <cizra> I feel really bad, but I can't help.
[07:35:50] <JonathanThompson> Clearly don't debug them on BeOS :)
[07:36:09] <cizra> Nah, BeOS doesn't run on my hardware.
[07:36:37] <_hugo> BeOS is too good for your hardware
[07:36:38] <cizra> snobish
[07:36:45] <JonathanThompson> Indeed, snobbish.
[07:37:02] <JonathanThompson> An OS that won't run on hardware has zero value.
[07:37:49] <_hugo> is BeOS were to run on newer hardware it would break the time-continuum, the fast it is
[07:38:01] <_hugo> s/is B/if B/
[07:38:22] * JonathanThompson wonders if _hugo has had something put into his food or drink :)
[07:38:29] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: always
[07:40:22] <santagada> would it be too hard to use something like cherokee web server?
[07:40:35] * JonathanThompson throws _hugo a cat with a piece of buttered bread tied onto its back to see whether the cat lands on its feet or it lands buttered-bread side down, or creates a singularity as a result as the cat/bread combo spin in place, defying gravity trying to decipher which way to land
[07:40:48] <JonathanThompson> Depends on the name :)
[07:40:53] * _hugo puts JonathanThompson's cat into a box
[07:41:00] <JonathanThompson> Is there currently a Cherokee webserver?
[07:41:22] * JonathanThompson imagines _hugo's actions compounding things further with adding poison gas and quantum thought experiments
[07:41:52] <_hugo> i was only going to ask whether the cat was inside the box
[07:41:55] * JonathanThompson wonders if said cat is alive/dead/both and how it resolves landing
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[07:42:10] <JonathanThompson> Depends on how you observe it :)
[07:42:18] <cizra> Cherokee web server? Apache web server? Maybe Inca web server as the next thing?
[07:42:32] <JonathanThompson> Or Aztec :P
[07:42:48] <santagada> cizra: cherokee don't have many dependencies
[07:42:50] <JonathanThompson> (It sacrifices web pages to the /dev/null gods)
[07:42:51] <_hugo> hm, different continents
[07:43:00] <santagada> any if I remember correctly
[07:43:00] <pyCube> Mixtecs and Olamecs and Toltecs, oh my!
[07:43:29] <pyCube> twisted makes a GREAT web, ftp, etc etc server.. and its only dep is python :-p
[07:43:40] <_hugo> python is silly
[07:43:57] <pyCube> _hugo is dumb
[07:44:06] <pyCube> heh
[07:44:22] <santagada> twisted is a c module... so it may need a little bit more than just python
[07:44:25] <umccullough> _hugo, it works
[07:44:30] <_hugo> umccullough: oh joy :-)
[07:44:34] <umccullough> but funny thing is - it served the page as text :P
[07:44:48] <umccullough> hang on, i'll open a port
[07:44:49] <_hugo> umccullough: thats Content-Type weirdness
[07:44:50] * JonathanThompson considers perhaps umccullough has made a configuration error :)
[07:45:02] <umccullough> JonathanThompson, what do I need to change?
[07:45:15] <JonathanThompson> I have no clue, but it sounds like something's configured wrong :)
[07:45:19] <_hugo> umccullough: did you write the html page yourself? is the mime type text/html?
[07:46:04] <santagada> if you are porting all of the indian tribes I would like to see smackahoe on haiku
[07:46:07] <santagada> http://www.bwild.com/smtrmet.html
[07:46:24] <umccullough> http://binarychicken.com:575/
[07:46:41] <umccullough> i did write it with stylededit
[07:46:57] <umccullough> let me try to change it
[07:47:01] <_hugo> umccullough: set the mimetype to text/html, it probably is text/plain now
[07:47:17] <cizra> text/plain
[07:47:20] <cizra> So yeah
[07:48:02] * JonathanThompson goes back to Fantasy Island memories, and proclaims loudly, while pointing to Robinhood, "Text/plain!  Text/plain!"
[07:48:35] <umccullough> heh, lots of activity on the console output all of a sudden
[07:48:51] <umccullough> there we go
[07:48:54] <umccullough> mimetype change
[07:48:55] <umccullough> d
[07:49:29] <santagada> is works
[07:49:32] <santagada> :)
[07:49:38] <umccullough> neat :)
[07:49:45] <umccullough> let me grab a screenie before it crashes :D
[07:49:55] <JonathanThompson> Was it supposed to look that plain?
[07:50:17] <_hugo> umccullough: thanks for testing
[07:50:18] <JonathanThompson> Well, I do see HTML tags.
[07:51:05] <santagada> JonathanThompson: what browser are you using?
[07:51:16] <santagada> I checked both with firefox and safari here
[07:51:17] <JonathanThompson> Hey umccullough, that's a more modest machine than this one: I have 900 Mhz total of CPU :)
[07:51:19] <umccullough> there, i added extra space before "Machine"
[07:51:22] <santagada> no html tags
[07:51:24] <JonathanThompson> SeaMonkey.
[07:51:28] <JonathanThompson> (I had to view the source)
[07:51:43] <santagada> :)
[07:51:51] <santagada> i didn't get the joke
[07:51:55] * JonathanThompson does his best Star Wars impersonation, "Use the Source, LOOK!"
[07:52:09] <cizra> Your CPU is turning off 900 000 000 times per second, mine is turning off about twice as much.
[07:52:18] <cizra> Therefore yours is better than mine @ 1600 MHz.
[07:52:40] <JonathanThompson> (dual p3-450, cizra)
[07:52:56] <cizra> ah
[07:53:02] <cizra> Well, it adds up to the same.
[07:53:09] <JonathanThompson> Larger drive than umccullough has, too.
[07:53:16] <cizra> By the way,
[07:53:20] <JonathanThompson> Which one?
[07:53:21] <santagada> can I install haiku on a p200 with 64mb of ram?
[07:53:22] <cizra> Is it actually worth to have 2 CPUs?
[07:53:35] * pyCube looks
[07:53:41] <JonathanThompson> It actually makes things more responsive, even if not overall faster all the time, cizra.
[07:53:42] <santagada> I have one here... and it is a pretty big paper weight now
[07:54:21] <JonathanThompson> I'd think you should be able to install it, but the last time I used it, it ran out of RAM very quickly with my 256 megs due to some details that may have been fixed by now.
[07:54:39] <santagada> bummer
[07:54:40] <JonathanThompson> Rather, I couldn't execute too many things because things weren't released back to the system properly.
[07:54:43] <santagada> so vmware for now
[07:54:46] <JonathanThompson> You could try.
[07:54:59] <santagada> I just have to find how to install apps on it on the vmware image
[07:55:51] <santagada> better yet, being able to have 2 images, one with the system (wich I can download new versions all the time) and another with apps, so they are always there
[07:56:01] <umccullough> i'll leave that page running for a while
[07:56:06] <umccullough> we'll see how long before it dies
[07:56:17] <santagada> like firefox for beos and python!
[07:56:18] <_hugo> umccullough: did you take a screeny?
[07:56:24] * JonathanThompson wonders if he can push umccullough's webserver into crashing Haiku by refreshing regularly :)
[07:56:30] <umccullough> _hugo, yeah
[07:56:40] <umccullough> both of Haiku and my XP machine browsing it
[07:56:40] <santagada> ddos on umccullough
[07:56:43] <umccullough> heh
[07:56:49] <umccullough> it's only 144kbps, so goodluck ;)
[07:57:04] <umccullough> worst case, you clobber my internet connection
[07:57:24] <JonathanThompson> Be my luck that it got cached in the ISP I'm using so it's not getting fresh copies from you constantly :)
[07:57:29] <umccullough> in fact...hang on
[07:57:48] <santagada> mine is
[07:57:55] <JonathanThompson> Since I note the content isn't changing.
[07:57:56] <santagada> but I think it crashed already
[07:58:46] <santagada> yeah no response anymore
[07:59:24] * JonathanThompson wonders if binary chickens are prone to bipolar disorder
[08:00:20] <JonathanThompson> Either I trashed umccullough's internet bandwidth on binarychicken, or the system has died now.
[08:00:27] <JonathanThompson> Ah, just got slow :)
[08:01:11] <umccullough> yeah
[08:01:19] <umccullough> i added the PNG screenie to the html ;)
[08:01:22] <umccullough> doggin' here too
[08:01:27] <JonathanThompson> I'm contributing to testing using up your bandwidth :P
[08:01:45] <umccullough> some of you might be lucky enough to get part of the PNG
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[08:02:03] <JonathanThompson> Others of us may simply get killed in the process? :)
[08:03:25] <umccullough> i get about 3/4 of it before it stops sending
[08:03:25] <umccullough> 1
[08:03:25] <umccullough> doh
[08:03:25] <umccullough> no, i better pull that back out
[08:03:33] <JonathanThompson> :P
[08:03:39] * JonathanThompson wonders how big it is.
[08:04:09] <umccullough> 200kb
[08:04:20] <JonathanThompson> At 14.4Kbits...
[08:04:27] <umccullough> 144kbps
[08:04:32] <umccullough> 14kb/sec
[08:04:37] <JonathanThompson> Oh.
[08:04:54] <JonathanThompson> That's what happens when you run at 2048*1536 resolution on a 19" monitor :)
[08:05:03] <umccullough> oh, KDL :)
[08:05:08] <JonathanThompson> :)
[08:05:13] <_hugo> cool. what trace?
[08:05:38] <JonathanThompson> So glad I could help crash your system, umccullough :)
[08:05:38] <umccullough> page fault in socket_connected
[08:05:52] <_hugo> umccullough: can you take a screenshot please?
[08:05:57] <umccullough> list_remove_item
[08:05:59] <umccullough> i can't
[08:06:07] <umccullough> list_remove_link
[08:06:13] <_hugo> not even from XP?
[08:06:14] <JonathanThompson> Must be something not locked down everywhere.
[08:06:23] <umccullough> it's on real hardware
[08:06:25] <_hugo> oh :-)
[08:06:34] <umccullough> i can...um, write it all down :(
[08:06:46] <_hugo> type in "sc", what is before the list_remove call?
[08:07:10] <umccullough> actually, i bet if I hook up a serial cable, i can dump the SC again
[08:07:21] <umccullough> it
[08:07:26] <umccullough> it's in stack
[08:07:26] * JonathanThompson expects a big improvement in network stack stability in response to this torture test and sc :)
[08:07:41] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: you shouldnt
[08:07:50] <umccullough> socket_connected_FP10net_socket + 0x0069
[08:07:51] <JonathanThompson> (I can be hopeful :) )
[08:07:58] <_hugo> big improvements come from several different tests
[08:08:05] <_hugo> umccullough: thank you
[08:08:11] <JonathanThompson> Usually true.
[08:08:36] <umccullough> that's double __ before FP10, but i suspect that doesn't matter
[08:08:41] <JonathanThompson> But this is probably a simple enough one to replicate that fixing this should be relatively simple to find why it did it.
[08:09:10] <_hugo> umccullough: yep, doesnt matter much right now. thats due C++ name mangling
[08:09:19] <JonathanThompson> And hopefully fixing the problem why this test crashed doesn't cause an undesired side-effect elsewhere.
[08:10:21] <umccullough> ah, got a the sc by hooking up the serial cable :D
[08:10:37] <_hugo> all paths that access that particular list are protected so it is broken elsewhere
[08:10:56] <JonathanThompson> Doesn't sound easy to fix, then :(
[08:11:07] <umccullough> 80720d64 (+  84) 800765b4   <kernel>:list_remove_link + 0x0008
[08:11:07] <umccullough> 80720db8 (+  32) 80076690   <kernel>:list_remove_item + 0x0018
[08:11:07] <umccullough> 80720dd8 (+  48) 802176a5   </boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/network/stack>:socket_connected__FP10net_socket + 0x0069
[08:11:07] <umccullough> 80720e08 (+  80) 80231f9b   </boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp>:Receive__11TCPEndpointR18tcp_segment_headerP10net_buffer + 0x036b
[08:11:08] <umccullough> 80720e58 (+ 144) 80230247   </boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp>:tcp_receive_data__FP10net_buffer + 0x036b
[08:11:10] <umccullough> 80720ee8 (+  96) 8022a70d   </boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/ipv4>:ipv4_receive_data__FP10net_buffer + 0x0215
[08:11:13] <umccullough> 80720f48 (+  48) 80213879   </boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/network/stack>:domain_receive_adapter__FPvP10net_buffer + 0x0025
[08:11:16] <umccullough> 80720f78 (+  96) 80211b3f   </boot/beos/system/add-ons/kernel/network/stack>:device_reader_thread__FPv + 0x015f
[08:11:18] <umccullough> 80720fd8 (+  32) 80034813   <kernel>:_create_kernel_thread_kentry + 0x001b
[08:11:20] <umccullough> 80720ff8 (+2140008456) 800347a8   <kernel>:thread_kthread_exit + 0x0000
[08:11:54] <_hugo> it was during the setup of a new connection, but this isnt enough for me to fix the issue
[08:12:18] <_hugo> as soon as im done with the multicast code ill try to do some stress tests
[08:13:15] <umccullough> time for bed
[08:13:31] * JonathanThompson gets out the staplegun and staples umccullough into bed
[08:26:02] <umccullough> I'll put it back up before I got to sleep: http://binarychicken.com:575/
[08:26:04] <umccullough> :)
[08:28:56] <umccullough> needs a hit counter
[08:28:57] <umccullough> :P
[08:29:01] <umccullough> maybe tomorrow i'll add one
[08:30:06] <umccullough> hope nobody minds if I post the Haiku screenie - might be a few of your IPs listed there
[08:30:13] <umccullough> i can blur 'em out tomorrow i suppose
[08:31:14] *** pyCube has quit IRC
[08:31:27] <cizra> OK with me
[08:32:18] <umccullough> http://www.flickr.com/photos/umccullough/
[08:32:55] <cizra> Does this Datsun run Haiku?
[08:33:42] <umccullough> maybe someday ;)
[08:33:46] <cizra> (Is Haiku lean enough to run on that Datsun's ABS controller?)
[08:33:51] <umccullough> ABS?
[08:33:54] <umccullough> heh
[08:34:03] <umccullough> that baby is circa 1969
[08:34:25] <umccullough> http://www.flickr.com/photos/umccullough/tags/haikuos
[08:34:33] <umccullough> there, maybe that's more appropriate ;)
[08:34:56] <umccullough> oh, no haikuos tag on the firefox shot?
[08:35:45] <umccullough> there
[08:36:35] <cizra> Via C3 Ezra? First time hearing about one of these in the wild.
[08:36:40] <cizra> Is it fanless or what/
[08:36:46] <umccullough> it has a fan actually...
[08:36:50] <umccullough> but it's a serious POS
[08:36:58] <cizra> POS?
[08:37:09] <umccullough> piece of shit
[08:37:31] <cizra> Why?
[08:37:44] <umccullough> 800mhz and slower than my PII 350
[08:37:53] <umccullough> can't even do DVD playback
[08:38:16] <umccullough> doesn't help that it's on an ECS MoBo with SiS chipset
[08:38:24] <umccullough> that board/chipset is absolute crap
[08:38:45] <umccullough> and it's not even fully i686 compliant
[08:38:54] <umccullough> so, most modern linux distros hang on boot
[08:39:09] <umccullough> Haiku is i586, so it works :P
[08:40:38] <cizra> myeah
[08:41:47] <umccullough> crap, i guess that 1600x1200 screenshot got downsized by flickr :(
[08:41:51] <umccullough> oh well
[08:42:19] <umccullough> at least it's legible (barely)
[08:42:43] <umccullough> ok, need sleep now
[08:43:40] <cizra> Bye
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[09:31:21] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20695 /haiku/trunk/ (8 files in 6 dirs): glued the multicast filter handling to the receive path: we are now capable of receiving multicast frames in datagram sockets.
[09:32:33] * JonathanThompson is slightly amused apartment complex's garage door car sensor seems to have died, making it impossible for people to drive out without activating the garage door from outside the building
[09:33:28] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku
[09:33:48] * JonathanThompson launches a bouncy jungle cat onto Ingenu in welcome
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[09:38:16] * JonathanThompson dumps bits onto eNGIMa in welcome
[09:38:28] <eNGIMa> heh heh, thanks
[09:38:38] <JonathanThompson> How many bits do you want today? :)
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[09:39:35] <eNGIMa> hmm, i'm going to go with some power of two, i wont be _too_ greedy, perhaps 8?
[09:39:52] * JonathanThompson hands eNGIMa $1 US
[09:40:05] * eNGIMa looks puzzled
[09:40:10] <JonathanThompson> :)
[09:40:25] * JonathanThompson advises eNGIMa to look up "Shave and a haircut" short song for a reference
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[09:45:18] <eNGIMa> heh heh, it appears i was greedy to the tune of 6 bits ...
[09:45:28] <JonathanThompson> :)
[09:45:42] *** mazon is now known as Mazon
[09:46:40] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20696 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/ipv4/ipv4.cpp: fixed the reception of multicast frames by RAW sockets.
[09:46:41] <_hugo> ok, too tired now. think its time to rest
[09:47:00] <mmu_man> rest ?
[09:47:09] * JonathanThompson hands eNGIMa an explanation created by someone else where "two bits" came from here: http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_05/stott070705.html
[09:47:10] <_hugo> eheh, yes
[09:47:11] <mmu_man> hmm I don't think that's part of SoC's terms =)
[09:47:23] <_hugo> SoC hasn't started yet :-P
[09:47:28] <mmu_man> didn't Axel explain you how it works ? ;)
[09:47:45] <_hugo> i should be knowing the project now, joining the mailing lists..
[09:47:45] <_hugo> eheh
[09:47:47] <JonathanThompson> The longer you go without sleep and do code when tired, chances are you'll spend more time than you gained in the process of fixing it :)
[09:48:11] <mmu_man> yeah indeed, joking
[09:48:38] <mmu_man> + it's already hard enough to cope with 1 axel ;)
[09:49:06] <mmu_man> ok, now why don't I get any usb working...
[09:49:06] <JonathanThompson> Well, unless you ride a unicycle, it requires two axels for a motercycle or a car :)
[09:49:09] <JonathanThompson> (Minimum)
[09:49:20] <mmu_man> ah
[09:49:35] <_hugo> well, Axel is in another level. Straight years committing a lot, its crazy
[09:49:38] * JonathanThompson wonders what sort of car axel and _hugo would make :)
[09:49:39] <mmu_man> well, not to contradict, one was way enough to get Haiku rolling =)
[09:49:41] <_hugo> anyway, ill get my rest :-)
[09:50:08] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps "Mannheim Steamroller" :P
[09:50:14] * eNGIMa ponders 'Haiku is a unicycle'
[09:50:17] <mmu_man> which timezone are you in anyway ?
[09:50:38] <mmu_man> west coast ?
[09:50:42] <JonathanThompson> I am.
[09:50:44] <_hugo> mmu_man: me?
[09:50:47] <mmu_man> yes
[09:50:47] <JonathanThompson> West coast US.
[09:50:49] <_hugo> mmu_man: GMT
[09:51:05] <_hugo> 8h50am right now
[09:51:05] <JonathanThompson> Wait, UK?
[09:51:18] <mmu_man> aw, indeed, white nights are nice sometimes, but it's dangerous =)
[09:51:18] <mmu_man> off to bed, quick !
[09:51:22] <_hugo> eheh, will do
[09:51:25] <mmu_man> 9:50 here
[09:51:36] * JonathanThompson gets out cruise missile nail gun to nail _hugo into bed
[09:52:04] <_hugo> :-) see you guys later
[09:52:07] <JonathanThompson> :)
[09:52:09] <JonathanThompson> Seeya
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[10:24:53] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20697 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/ipv4/multicast.cpp: gcc 4 template instantiation fixes
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[10:33:26] <Begasus> g'morning peeps
[10:34:21] <Ingenu> morning
[10:36:29] <kokito> hello Begasus
[10:38:44] <kokito> hello and goodbye. going to sleep ;)
[10:39:18] <Begasus> night kokito;)
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[10:42:36] <Ingenu> curse be F1 = help
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[10:54:19] <miqlas> hello
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[11:13:47] <miqlas> Hello Petterhj!
[11:15:50] <petterhj> hello
[11:16:52] <miqlas> Woh going?
[11:18:07] <petterhj> Its going well. You?
[11:20:17] <miqlas> Now I'm dont smoking 16 days ago.. I'm happy. Sorry for my english.
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[11:23:31] <kr1stof> Giving up smoking is probably very hard
[11:23:54] <miqlas> not too hard. it is easy for me... yet.
[11:23:59] <kr1stof> That'swhy I've never started
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[11:24:53] <miqlas> I'm smoking 7 years long.
[11:25:43] <miqlas> deep breath :)
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[11:27:27] <miqlas> hello
[11:30:06] <emitrax> good morning
[11:34:40] <mmu_man> plop
[11:34:46] <Ingenu> anyone here running MacOSX ?
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[11:39:23] <NeonLicht> the more I see MacOSX, the more I like *BSD and Debian/GNU Linux :-)
[11:41:00] <mmu_man> ok, won't get usb workign today
[11:41:01] <mmu_man> gtg anyway
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[12:42:52] <Sil2100> Hi everyone
[12:43:01] <CIA-17> stippi * r20698 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/appearance/Appearance.rdef:
[12:43:01] <CIA-17> * created icon
[12:43:01] <CIA-17> * added some previously missing information to rdef
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[12:50:34] <CIA-17> korli * r20699 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/HaikuImage: added frcode, <bin>updatedb instead of updatedb
[12:51:34] <CIA-17> korli * r20700 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/findutils/locate/Jamfile: clean up
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[13:29:08] <Ingenu> anyone here tried SkyOS 5 ?
[13:29:19] <Ingenu> (within the past 3 months)
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[13:40:01] <CIA-17> stippi * r20701 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/sounds/Sounds.rdef:
[13:40:01] <CIA-17> * created vector icon
[13:40:01] <CIA-17> * updated copyright
[13:40:30] <NeonLicht> I've tried to boot the build 5550 beta 10 on qemu w/o success, Ingenu
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[13:45:23] <devian__> hallo all
[13:46:13] <devian__> hai hugo
[13:46:21] <devian__> _hugo
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[14:22:40] <CIA-17> stippi * r20702 /haiku/trunk/src/preferences/menu/Menu.rdef: * created vector icon
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[14:38:33] <pikapika> hello
[14:39:45] <cizra> hi
[14:43:26] <pikapika> :)
[14:51:51] <umccullough> heh, Haiku webserver still running :D
[14:52:14] <umccullough> http://binarychicken.com:575/
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[14:53:49] <umccullough> looks like someone checked it 3 hours ago even
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[15:06:39] <leszek_> hi
[15:06:47] <umccullough> 'morning
[15:07:11] <leszek_> I just finished my work on my first videotutorial for Haiku ;)
[15:07:25] <leszek_> It's about Icon-O-Matic
[15:07:38] <umccullough> nice - i played with that and didn't really have much clue what to do ;)
[15:07:44] <leszek_> :D
[15:07:58] <leszek_> here is the link: http://leszekllelectronics.blogspot.com
[15:08:22] <leszek_> it is a googlevideo so you can also download it via videodownaloder or directly under beos/Haiku/linux
[15:09:11] <cizra> http://http//video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-2008513940874112547
[15:09:12] <umccullough> is it big?
[15:09:15] <cizra> The link is rather strange.
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[15:10:18] <leszek_> upps:D
[15:10:26] <leszek_> cizra: i will change that :D
[15:10:36] <Minbari> you run rieselator to moniter the client(s)
[15:10:46] <leszek_> umccullough: no it is about 20 MB big
[15:10:47] <umccullough> Minbari, wrong chat window
[15:10:59] <Minbari> that figures
[15:11:02] <umccullough> heh
[15:11:16] <umccullough> leszek_, i'll d/l in a while
[15:11:25] <leszek_> k.D
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[15:18:19] <umccullough> cizra, are you the 82.53.x.x IP?
[15:18:52] <umccullough> nope, nevermind
[15:19:23] <umccullough> heh, i've been getting hits referred from echelog.matzon.dk
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[15:19:52] <cizra>           inet aadress:82.131.8.71  bcast:82.131.11.255  mask:255.255.252.0
[15:22:26] <umccullough> leszek_, how do you download google videos separately?
[15:23:19] <leszek_> with the firefox addon videodownloader or fast video downloader
[15:23:27] <leszek_> or just click download ;)
[15:23:28] <petterhj-> umccullough: theres a javascript line that you can paste in the address bar when viewing the google video page..
[15:23:48] <petterhj-> umccullough: paste this: javascript:if(document.getElementById('macdownloadlink')!=null){window.location.href=document.getElementById('macdownloadlink')}else{alert('Go to Google Video to download videos as AVI.')};
[15:23:51] <leszek_> umccullough: on which os are you right now?
[15:23:56] <petterhj-> or bookmark it and press it when viewing the video
[15:24:34] <leszek_> on ylinux and all the beos's you can simply click on download and the download will start
[15:24:39] <umccullough> i got the alert instead :(
[15:24:52] <umccullough> windows
[15:25:01] <leszek_> hmm on windows it won't work so easy
[15:25:05] <leszek_> :D
[15:25:08] <umccullough> figures
[15:25:16] <umccullough> it's FF though
[15:25:35] <leszek_> the fast video downloader has to work with ff
[15:25:59] <umccullough> extension? - i'll grab it
[15:26:26] <leszek_> yeah :D
[15:27:12] <umccullough> oh, i see it's on mozilla's most popular extension list ;)
[15:27:43] <umccullough> VideoDownloader that is
[15:28:06] <leszek_> yeah but the fast video downloader is better :D
[15:29:35] <umccullough> hm, VideoDownloader just gives me a 6.4mb FLV
[15:29:48] <umccullough> is that what I should expect?
[15:29:58] <leszek_> yeah flv is a little bit bad video compression
[15:30:13] <umccullough> ok, so that's what google video compresses to?
[15:30:20] <leszek_> yeah
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[16:00:01] <CIA-17> korli * r20703 /haiku/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
[16:00:01] <CIA-17> fixed some warnings
[16:00:01] <CIA-17> code style of MMediaFilesManager.*
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[16:17:05] <CIA-17> korli * r20704 /haiku/trunk/src/servers/input/ (4 files): code style
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[16:40:41] <_hugo> oh hello, hello
[16:44:34] <umccullough> hi _hugo
[16:44:38] <_hugo> hi
[16:44:41] <umccullough> my webserver is still running :)
[16:44:50] <_hugo> nice to hear :-)
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[16:45:11] <umccullough> looks like it's been up for > 8 hours now
[16:45:18] <_hugo> :-)
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[16:45:32] <umccullough> i get a few hits now and then with echelog as the referrer
[16:45:50] <_hugo> eheh
[16:45:58] <umccullough> probably googlebots
[16:46:08] <NeonLicht> nothing to do w/ Haiku, bat have a look at this: http://halbot.haluze.sk/?id=3236
[16:46:12] <CIA-17> korli * r20705 /haiku/trunk/build/jam/HaikuImage: added mail_daemon
[16:46:39] <umccullough> yeah, those are illegal to own as pets where i live :P
[16:47:19] <NeonLicht> where do you live?
[16:48:34] <cizra> umccullough: Want some stress testing?
[16:48:51] <umccullough> cizra, sure :)
[16:49:00] <umccullough> NeonLicht, i live in California, USA
[16:49:10] <cizra> Gimme the URL
[16:49:13] <umccullough> the next state over allows hedgehogs as pets
[16:49:23] <umccullough> http://binarychicken.com:575/
[16:50:07] <NeonLicht> I think they are legal to have as pets in Europe (I live in Spain)
[16:50:18] <cizra> while ((1));do wget http://binarychicken.com:575/ -O /dev/null;done
[16:50:31] <umccullough> lol, i see the wget's
[16:50:49] <cizra> Length: 398 [text/html]
[16:50:51] <petterhj-> umccullough: you're running a http server on haiku?
[16:50:54] <cizra> 17:50:46 (974.73 B/s) - Connection closed at byte 209. Retrying.
[16:50:58] <umccullough> petterhj-, yep :D
[16:51:08] <umccullough> screenshot link is on that page
[16:51:09] <petterhj-> what server? PoorMan? ;p
[16:51:14] <umccullough> RobinHood
[16:51:17] <umccullough> directly off of Bebits ;)
[16:51:37] <umccullough> cizra, let me know when it crashes
[16:51:46] <petterhj-> umccullough: nice :)
[16:52:32] <umccullough> petterhj-, i had to install it in my R5 net_server first because it's .pkg :(
[16:52:39] <umccullough> then copied to my haiku partition
[16:53:03] <cizra> Don't you see the problem?
[16:53:04] <petterhj-> anyone tried using SoftwareValet to install pkg? I know it runs at least.
[16:53:17] <cizra> It doesn't give the full advertised page.
[16:53:24] <umccullough> cizra, is it dead?
[16:53:32] <umccullough> looks alive
[16:53:44] <cizra> It server them in two chunks.
[16:53:51] <umccullough> really?
[16:54:10] <cizra> Can't ya see?
[16:54:22] <cizra> It closes the connection on byte 209
[16:54:25] <umccullough> when i run it here, i get the whole thing
[16:54:42] <cizra> Now it just hangs.
[16:54:43] <umccullough> mm... now it's hung
[16:55:01] <umccullough> let me restart the service
[16:55:04] <petterhj-> couldn't handle the load :p
[16:55:06] <umccullough> (not Haiku)
[16:55:08] <cizra> Anyway, here's the stress testing (=
[16:55:25] <umccullough> actually, i'll leave it alone, maybe it'll free up in a sec
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[16:57:47] <umccullough> yeah, i'll restart the service
[16:58:01] <umccullough> that fixed it
[16:58:07] <cizra> The same problem
[16:58:11] <umccullough> funny, no crash
[16:58:14] <cizra> connection closed on byte 209
[16:58:17] <umccullough> on my side, it says 398bytes sent
[16:58:21] <mmadia> umccullough poorman?
[16:58:30] <umccullough> oh wait
[16:58:32] <[Katisu]> limited number of connections?
[16:58:35] <umccullough> it says 189 bytes sent
[16:58:40] <umccullough> mmadia, RobinHood
[16:59:10] <mmadia> hot damn : )
[16:59:42] <umccullough> the header is messed up
[17:00:07] <umccullough> says Range: bytes=209-
[17:00:10] <umccullough> wtf ?
[17:00:43] <cizra> http://pastie.caboo.se/53998
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[17:02:15] <umccullough> cizra, maybe RobinHood does that intentionally, i dunno
[17:02:32] <_hugo> umccullough: that Range: bytes=... is correct
[17:02:38] <umccullough> ok
[17:02:39] <_hugo> if wget is connecting to obtain that range
[17:02:58] <umccullough> yeah, looks like it's grabbing the remainder
[17:03:01] <cizra> mv: target `.//home/elmo/haiku/buildtools/binutils/bfd/doc/' is not a directory: No such file or directory
[17:03:05] <cizra> hmm..
[17:03:28] <_hugo> umccullough: i will do some stress tests locally today, hopefully i'll find further issues to fix
[17:04:50] <umccullough> unfortunately I can't play much today - have some stuff to do outside :)
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[17:39:03] <emitrax_> to update my Haiku system do I have to rm -rf all the system and copy the new image everytime ?
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[17:53:36] <emitrax_> there we go again, mac address is all set to zero
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[18:18:33] <umccullough> emitrax_, how are you copying the image?
[18:20:31] <emitrax__> copyattr -v -r -d /foo/* /haiku.image
[18:20:44] <emitrax__> Haiku*
[18:20:45] <umccullough> emitrax_, from linux?
[18:20:51] <emitrax__> no no
[18:20:56] <emitrax__> from BeOS MAX
[18:20:57] <umccullough> just do a jam install-haiku then
[18:21:13] <umccullough> install-haiku will automatically copy the image to a a partition mounted as /Haiku
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[18:21:35] <umccullough> it will not destroy other contents on that partition either
[18:21:56] <umccullough> so all your settings and stuff remain each time
[18:22:04] <emitrax__> I meant that I copy the image from BeOS MAX, but I build it from linux
[18:22:11] <emitrax__> since I always work on my laptop
[18:22:11] <umccullough> oh
[18:22:18] <umccullough> jeez, sounds painful
[18:22:54] <emitrax__> anyway, I just wanted to know if the old system has to be all erased
[18:23:01] <umccullough> i doubt it
[18:23:12] <umccullough> the install-haiku target just overwrites, doesn't delete
[18:23:13] <emitrax__> besides, what I want to update only the usb stack for example?
[18:23:19] <emitrax__> oh ok
[18:24:18] <umccullough> i should verify that but i'm pretty sure
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[18:49:52] <leszek_> re
[18:53:57] <umccullough> emitrax__,
[18:54:06] <umccullough> emitrax__, install-haiku uses: $copyattr -d
[18:54:22] <umccullough> i'm not sure what $copyattr is yet, still looking
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[19:06:37] <umccullough> emitrax_, yeah, looks like it uses Haiku's copyattr -d
[19:06:47] <umccullough> i dunno if haiku's copyattr differs from R5's
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[19:29:58] <umccullough> hmm.. looks like Haiku is crashing
[19:30:06] <_hugo> in?
[19:30:11] <_hugo> or with
[19:30:14] <umccullough> dunno, all of a sudden it's hanging
[19:30:16] <umccullough> RobinHood
[19:30:21] <umccullough> been running for nearly 12 hours
[19:30:37] <_hugo> how was the memory usage?
[19:31:38] <umccullough> less than half used
[19:31:43] <_hugo> strange then
[19:32:08] <umccullough> yeah, it's hung hard
[19:32:17] <umccullough> f12 worked
[19:32:34] <MrSun> "TWA 2341, for noise abatement turn right 45 Degrees."
[19:32:41] <MrSun> "Centre, we are at 35,000 feet. How much noise can we make up here?"
[19:32:49] <MrSun> "Sir, have you ever heard the noise a 747 makes when it hits a 727?"
[19:34:04] <GreyGhost> lol
[19:34:24] <MrSun> :)
[19:35:11] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20706 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/kernel/network/protocols/tcp/ (TCPEndpoint.cpp TCPEndpoint.h):
[19:35:11] <CIA-17> fixed an issue where TCP would RST a connection when a peer trying to connect us re-sent their SYN.
[19:35:11] <CIA-17>  - In fact our SYN/ACK reply is being lost due to ARP resolving as we are waiting in the device's receive path, thus we never get replies before timing out. This requires queueing during ARP resolving.
[19:39:52] <cizra> Why does Haiku prefer Jam?
[19:40:14] <_hugo> cizra: because its better than make and in 2001 there wasnt really anything better
[19:41:02] <umccullough> 2
[19:41:05] <umccullough> doh
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[19:41:44] <meianoite> yo
[19:42:00] <_hugo> queing during arp resolving will be a pain, ugh.
[19:42:05] <_hugo> queueing even
[19:42:41] <cizra> _hugo: Hmm. You seem to be determined to do things right the first time.
[19:42:52] <cizra> Think about the future, people! What will happen when the OS is ready?
[19:42:57] <cizra> You'll all be out of bread.
[19:43:02] <cizra> Look how Micro$oft has managed.
[19:43:10] <cizra> Windows is a gift that keeps on giving.
[19:43:19] <cizra> It has fed them to this day and the end is nowhere near —
[19:43:25] <MrSun> windows is a gift?
[19:43:26] <MrSun> haha
[19:43:30] <MrSun> wtf are you on ?
[19:43:32] <_hugo> cizra: stop this nonsense chatter
[19:44:04] <_hugo> things need to be right sometime, whether it is from the start or not depends on the circumstances
[19:44:24] <petterhj-> _hugo: how is the NetworkStatus app supposed to work? Just that an IP is set and that the interface is ready, or if you are connected to a network or not? I've noticed that when i turn off networking (vmware), or kill net_server (for an example), it's still green! :)
[19:44:30] <umccullough> ok, started it back up, adjusted the timestamp on the page :)
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[19:45:01] <_hugo> petterhj-: there are still no events so it doesnt react. also, disconnecting ethernet in vmware does not remove link so it cant really do anything in that regard
[19:45:20] <_hugo> petterhj-: net_server isnt a requirement to have connectivity either btw
[19:45:33] <_hugo> petterhj-: try "ifconfig -d interfaceName"
[19:45:42] <petterhj-> oh, kinda thought that was mandatory :p
[19:45:57] <_hugo> nope, it does the management, but the network stack doesnt require it to run
[19:46:36] <_hugo> petterhj-: and an interface being "ready" means it was able to obtain an IP address via auto-configuration from the network
[19:46:37] <petterhj-> ok, i see. but will the status app report if you're online, or just connected to a network in the future?
[19:46:45] <cizra> _hugo: Still, you have to agree that making crap OSes is quite a lucrative business.
[19:46:47] <_hugo> petterhj-: what does "online" mean?
[19:47:00] <petterhj-> well, on the internet
[19:47:11] <_hugo> cizra: crap or not has nothing to do with it, it is an economic factor
[19:47:22] <_hugo> petterhj-: how do you define if you are on the internet?
[19:47:36] <_hugo> petterhj-: just trying to understand what you want, to see if we can support it
[19:47:38] <GreyGhost> ipconfig ? ;)
[19:47:58] <_hugo> having a configured IP address has nothing to do with "being on the internet", you could be on a private network
[19:48:37] <MrSun> the stack shouldnt have to bother with stuff like that right? :)
[19:49:00] <_hugo> the stack does not care about that, it doesn't even configure anything, net_server does that
[19:49:01] <GreyGhost> _hugo ,yeah .. but it gives you a clue that u have a good chacne to be on the net.. especiilay cos i dont hav a network at my place :P
[19:49:11] <umccullough> it could pint haiku-os.org :D
[19:49:14] <umccullough> ping even
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[19:49:28] <_hugo> GreyGhost: thus currently when an interface is auto-configured we report it as "Ready"
[19:49:33] <cizra> _hugo: Must agree.
[19:49:38] <cizra> _hugo: I mean, I must agree with you.
[19:49:47] <GreyGhost> _hugo ,ok :)
[19:50:41] <_hugo> NetworkStatus will in the future inform to which "network" you are connected, when this information is available (for instance, for wireless interfaces). But we are not there yet
[19:51:17] <petterhj-> _hugo: if I for instance would plug out my network cable, and have a static IP set, will it still report as ready (since the IP is still set)?
[19:51:36] <_hugo> petterhj-: the idea is that if you plug out your cable it should switch to "No Link"
[19:51:59] <_hugo> (it already does this btw, its just that there is no such notification in vmware)
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[19:53:28] <_hugo> and when you plug it back in, it should re-check your DHCP lease. but this isn't in yet
[19:53:33] <petterhj-> do you need to change every single network driver in order to be able to report such status?
[19:53:46] <DaaT> oi _hugo, tudo bem?
[19:53:49] <_hugo> petterhj-: yes, but shouldn't be hard, we have already changed a couple
[19:53:56] <_hugo> DaaT: vai-se andando :-) algum trabalho
[19:53:59] <DaaT> :)
[19:54:38] <petterhj-> _hugo; yea, I think thats the cause of the "strange" behaviour. When running it on real hardware, I probably use an older version of the broadcom driver..
[19:54:46] <_hugo> petterhj-: ipro1000 for instance already notifies the stack when the link status changes, unfortunely disconnecting it in vmware does not seem to do that
[19:55:34] <DaaT> bbiab
[19:55:56] <_hugo> petterhj-: eventually all haiku drivers will support it. at least for the hardware that is capable of reporting it
[19:55:57] <petterhj-> _hugo; yea, thats what I noticed. Just was wondering why it didn't.
[19:56:09] <petterhj-> sure
[19:56:34] <_hugo> petterhj-: its on my todo list to investigate it further, but i assume vmware is actually plugging the device out of the pci bus or just stopping to send/receive frames
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[19:58:48] <Grackle> I noticed that some menus open and stay open with a single click, while others require the user to hold down the mouse button. We should probably try to be consistant with that behavior.
[19:59:20] <Grackle> I'm not sure what it would take to change that though.
[20:03:32] * cizra fires up self-built Haiku in qemu
[20:04:08] <NeonLicht> cizra: and?... and?... and?.... and? c'mon... say something! XDD
[20:04:21] <cizra> It's still booting.
[20:04:28] <cizra> Showing a nice black screen
[20:04:31] <cizra> I love black.
[20:04:37] <NeonLicht> so do I :)
[20:05:09] <NeonLicht> xsetrrot -solid black   on all my .xsession files, actually XDDD
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[20:05:35] <cizra> I guess it goes into an infinite loop somewhere.
[20:05:39] <cizra> NeonLicht: What does XDDD mean?
[20:05:51] <_hugo> cizra: haiku boots in qemu just fine here
[20:06:23] <NeonLicht> s/xsetrrot/xsetroot
[20:06:50] <NeonLicht> cizra: hahaha, it means that on all my Unix boxes my screen background is set to black
[20:07:35] <cizra> _hugo: Yeah, the image got from the website works as well, but my custom-built one goes into an infinite loop/recursion OSLT.
[20:08:05] <_hugo> cizra: what revision and compiler?
[20:08:23] <cizra> Erm.. Version?
[20:08:36] <cizra> I think I'll have to figure out the buildtools version then
[20:09:26] <cizra> *sigh* How to figure out?
[20:09:39] <cizra> The GCC on the box is
[20:09:44] <_hugo> cizra: did you use the gcc 2.95 or gcc 4.1 variant?
[20:09:45] <cizra> gcc (GCC) 4.1.2 (Ubuntu 4.1.2-0ubuntu4)
[20:09:47] <cizra> 4.1
[20:09:59] <_hugo> what SVN revision are you building?
[20:10:08] <geist> your box is 32bit?
[20:10:20] <cizra> yes
[20:10:28] <cizra> 20688
[20:10:45] <_hugo> cizra: try gcc 2.95
[20:11:01] <_hugo> there might be an issue with building with gcc 4 at the moment
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[20:13:28] <cizra> Nah, GCC 4 is the future.
[20:13:32] <cizra> Besides, I'm not in a hurry.
[20:15:18] <_hugo> vmware player is working with a gcc4 build
[20:17:34] <kad77> cool
[20:18:35] <kad77> cixra: I agree. The more people focusing on getting haiku to build without errors under GCC4 the better
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[20:18:46] <kad77> The new build machine I'm setting up will only be doing that, and hopefully I can submit patches over the summer
[20:19:02] <_hugo> haiku builds without errors in gcc 4
[20:19:20] <cizra> kad77: Are you aware that you can type "ci" and then just press tab, it'll autocomplete names and you'll avoid some typos and save time?
[20:19:23] <pikapika> hello
[20:19:38] <kad77> hmmm, checking the haiku-buildserver, plenty of warning about missing files and such are spooing out
[20:19:55] <cizra> src/bin/network/tcpdump/print-nfs.c:1542: warning: format '%u' expects type 'unsigned int', but argument 2 has type 'long unsigned int'
[20:20:02] <cizra> Lots of warnings like these
[20:20:03] <_hugo> kad77: you should try it yourself before stating it has errors
[20:20:21] <_hugo> cizra: that is harmless in 32 bits
[20:20:22] <kad77> cizra: in chatzilla? no i'm not aware of that
[20:20:36] <_hugo> in x86 that is.
[20:20:44] <cizra> kad77: Erm. Chatzilla. OK, I'll shut up then.
[20:21:25] <kad77> yes, its convenient. I stopped using IRC heavily in 1997
[20:22:54] <kad77> _hugo: http://factory.haiku-os.org/jam-stderr.log
[20:23:07] <kad77> Am I grossly misinterpreting that?
[20:23:34] <_hugo> kad77: clearly there is an issue with the build setup their as i can build it without problems here
[20:23:35] <geist> stuff be busted
[20:23:40] <_hugo> s/their/there/
[20:24:18] <kad77> hmm, given that is the public face of haiku builds for many people, the maintainer should deal with it
[20:25:15] <_hugo> kad77: as far as i am aware, that service is just a convenience, there are no official images considering the current development status
[20:25:50] <kad77> well, from a public relations standpoint, its not doing the project any favors. :D
[20:26:31] * kad77 is trying to be constructive, actually.
[20:27:26] <_hugo> kad77: send an email to the people in charge of the build factory then, pointing to the problem
[20:27:53] <kad77> ok, I'll look for teh address. many devs hang out here, so I thought I'd toss it out.
[20:33:05] <kad77> OK, done. thanks for the pointer
[20:33:22] <_hugo> thank you
[20:34:26] <kad77> My build machine was held up, as W23k server cannot deal with nforce SATA drivers.. :/   no new drive for that machine
[20:36:09] <kad77> I'm tryign to understand haiku driver situation, are we maintaining a GPL section for rewritten linux drivers?
[20:36:26] <kad77> BSD section, etc?
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[20:40:59] <TheDave> o/
[20:41:38] <TheDave> i'm having huge problems building a working haiku-image on linux
[20:42:16] <TheDave> i build the cross-tools just fine, as well as the haiku-image but qemu just hangs at the initial blue screen with a cursor
[20:42:17] <CIA-17> marcusoverhagen * r20707 /haiku/trunk/src/add-ons/media/media-add-ons/dvb/ (21 files): Media add-on for DVB.
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[20:42:50] <TheDave> i've downloaded an image from a build factory and that one works fine
[20:43:02] <cizra> TheDave: Almost exactly the same problem as me.
[20:43:07] <cizra> Do you use GCC 4?
[20:43:41] <CIA-17> marcusoverhagen * r20708 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/tv/: directory for TV app
[20:43:42] <TheDave> nope, i built the standard 2.95 toolchain
[20:44:21] <cizra> hmm.
[20:44:25] <TheDave> i've even checked out a fresh copy of both trees from svn
[20:44:37] <TheDave> no dice
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[20:45:17] <TheDave> it's really frustrating because there are no build errors (that i can see anyways) and everything seems to compile fine
[20:45:40] <TheDave> it just hangs at a blue screen with a frozen mouse cursor
[20:45:57] <dr_evil> kad77 we avoid GPL drivers and add-ons (everything that links into kernel or libraries), however, we have a SubIncludeGPL rule that allows building GPL modules, when you configured with --include-gpl-addons. That way, the normal build of haiku doesn't include any GPL addon, but the user can decide if the wants one
[20:46:23] <dr_evil> note hat we use a large number of GPL'ed applications, like bintools, etc. that are always included
[20:47:11] <dr_evil> there is a small number of GPL'ed drivers included in haiku source, but they aren't normally included into the final image
[20:48:52] <dr_evil> TheDave, cizra please use the bug tracker at http://dev.haiku-os.org if you have trouble
[20:49:11] <TheDave> cheers
[20:49:41] <cizra> What's the licence of Haiku then? BSD-like?
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[20:50:27] <TheDave> mit iirc
[20:51:16] <kad77> dr_evil: thank you for clarifying that. It sounds like the base is trying to be MIT clean, while easily allowing the end user or distro to add in additional GPL licensed components. Correct?
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[20:52:33] <cizra> dr_evil: The problem, I don't have anything useful to write there. It just hangs. I don't know how to figure out where or why it hangs.
[20:53:03] <dr_evil> well yes, thats it. haiku as a whole has to be considered as GPL'ed when such a driver is included. but the source stays licensed as MIT
[20:56:31] <cizra> Ohh, the cronjob is beeping again. Good night!
[20:58:07] <CIA-17> marcusoverhagen * r20709 /haiku/trunk/src/apps/tv/ (15 files):
[20:58:07] <CIA-17> The DVB TV application, can probably be used as a generic TV
[20:58:07] <CIA-17> application, or even merged with MediaPlayer and CDPlayer later.
[20:59:28] <kad77> It's been years, and I didn't follow the walter project years ago. Why didn't Haiku adopt an MIT-like license that ensured the code would be controlled (ie, Trademark, distribution/forking) by the Haiku Foundation?
[21:00:34] <CIA-17> marcusoverhagen * r20710 /haiku/trunk/data/settings/media/dvb/ (23 files in 5 dirs): channel settings for DVB
[21:03:39] <dr_evil> kad77 well, we had to start somewhere, and we decided to use MIT license to allow code reuse, etc.
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[21:05:30] <Stargater> hi all
[21:07:13] <dr_evil> hi _hugo
[21:10:17] <meianoite> kad77 you mean GPL, right?
[21:11:35] <meianoite> I see it more as a "art vs IP" thing.
[21:12:18] <meianoite> Andy Warhol aside, that doesn't make much sense to produce "consumable" art
[21:12:38] <meianoite> one that must be fiercely defended against copyright infringement and such
[21:12:49] <meianoite> s/that/it
[21:13:35] <meianoite> it's the mindset. if one considers his code a gift to the humanity... let it be :)
[21:14:18] <meianoite> and it's not like forking MIT code is a bad idea
[21:14:34] <meianoite> see the whole X.org episode
[21:14:47] <geist>  fork that
[21:15:02] <geist> those forking lamers
[21:15:45] <meianoite> geist fork yourself
[21:15:51] <meianoite> (we could really need 2 of you :D :D)
[21:15:57] <geist> fork off
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[21:16:15] <kad77> well, I am a believer in pragmatism, so I see some problems for MIT/Haiku in the future
[21:16:28] <tqh> evening
[21:16:29] <meianoite> what kind of problems?
[21:16:31] <kad77> we'll see I suppose
[21:16:41] <meianoite> hi, tqh
[21:17:02] <kad77> compiz/beryl type crap, or distro hell like linux (soooooo counterproductive)
[21:17:21] <meianoite> compiz/beryl is GPL, for chrissake
[21:17:26] <meianoite> as Linux distros
[21:17:37] <meianoite> it's not like GPL prevents ANY of these from happening
[21:17:46] <kad77> and that somehow averts the same problems?
[21:17:53] <kad77> with MIT?
[21:18:04] <meianoite> that's not the point.
[21:18:23] <kad77> My original point was that a Haiku Foundation license in the spirit of MIT would have been nice.
[21:18:27] <meianoite> still, look at how long XFree went unforked
[21:18:38] <meianoite> and how Apache never was (to the extent of my knowledge)
[21:19:01] <meianoite> kad77 I'm a little lost here. the licence *IS* MIT
[21:19:07] <MrSun> xorg in the modulised maner is very very nice :)
[21:19:15] <kad77> yes, it is MIT
[21:19:16] <MrSun> so you dont have to compile for like 3 hours each time a small update comes :)
[21:19:18] <meianoite> not old BSD, not 3-clause BSD, but MIT
[21:19:42] <meianoite> so how come you're complaining it's not MIT? o_O
[21:19:49] <kad77> I never was
[21:19:57] <meianoite> eh?
[21:20:55] <kad77> Read the logs, I said, the Haiku Foundation should have written a license in the spirit of MIT, but with some restrictions to address forking/bad distros
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[21:21:47] <kad77> ie, enforcing distribution through a steering committee
[21:22:20] <meianoite> that's a bit preposterous, no?
[21:22:44] <meianoite> "you may look at the code, but that's it; whatever you wanna do, you must get our approval"
[21:22:50] <kad77> depends on your point of view, I suppose
[21:23:07] <kad77> if thats how you would interpret it
[21:23:17] <kad77> I wouldn't
[21:23:19] <meianoite> that's how slashdot would interpret it
[21:23:26] <kad77> fuck slashnerds
[21:23:40] <meianoite> hence 9/10 of the blogosphere/diggsphere
[21:23:52] <kad77> its turning into digg everyday
[21:24:03] <meianoite> so you see my point.
[21:24:08] <meianoite> bad PR would ensue
[21:24:42] <kad77> well, I really don't care what some undereducated troll with no business experience posts on slashdot/digg
[21:24:47] <meianoite> no matter how many voices try to clarify the situation, they'd still not overcome the roaring crouds ={
[21:25:00] <meianoite> *crowds
[21:25:01] <kad77> feh
[21:25:15] <meianoite> that's life.
[21:25:40] <kad77> GCC works because it has a steering committee ... its code generation is still mediocre, but the project works
[21:25:49] <meianoite> it works better to keep the community integrated and focused, and so the devs
[21:25:58] <meianoite> kad77 you must have never heard of EGCS...
[21:26:00] <kad77> life is what you make it. I don't bow at the alter of RMS
[21:26:13] *** MrRagga has quit IRC
[21:26:26] * DeadYak moos
[21:26:32] * meianoite pets DeadYak
[21:26:37] * DeadYak purrs
[21:26:43] <meianoite> easy, boy, easy. :)
[21:26:51] <DeadYak> hehe
[21:26:52] <DeadYak> how's it going?
[21:26:58] <meianoite> what a cutey yak
[21:27:04] <meianoite> ;)
[21:27:05] <dr_evil> kad77 GCC is GPL licensed. this really is not a matter of licensing haiku as GPL, MIT or some homebrown MIT-like license
[21:27:13] <kad77> have you ever smelled a yak? :D I have
[21:27:20] <DeadYak> haha
[21:27:30] * DeadYak has flashbacks to Ren and Stimpy's Canadian Mounted Yaks song
[21:27:33] <meianoite> I tend to like human girls better
[21:27:42] <DeadYak> join the club
[21:28:01] <meianoite> no personal offence towards yaks, though
[21:28:08] <kad77> dr_evil: i'm just conversating. I know this often brings out some strng feeligns in people, but its all for the good of the effort
[21:28:42] <meianoite> except that this very subject is discussed every odd week =/
[21:28:54] <kad77> oh well, maybe something is amiss
[21:29:14] <meianoite> it's been 6 years of odd weeks.
[21:29:32] <meianoite> so... there's been at least 156 such weeks so far :)
[21:30:03] <kad77> licensing is all imposed legalism, has nothing to do with creativity or the advancement of knowledge
[21:30:07] * dr_evil hats IRC. it's so distracting. I should spend my time on making the code work, not talking abou it
[21:30:12] <kad77> I'm pondering pitfals, and how to avoid them
[21:30:20] *** kr1stof_ has joined #haiku
[21:30:39] <meianoite> well
[21:30:44] <_hugo> we should have a #haiku-dev
[21:30:47] <meianoite> balance the pitfalls between "gifts" and "favours"
[21:31:27] <_hugo> and this would remain #haiku "users"
[21:31:39] <meianoite> and that's my last sentence about this subject. period. sorry if I pissed anyone ;)
[21:31:49] <kad77> Of course, I can take the whole haiku tree, rename and relicense it, and develop it with a group of paid engineers to my liking if their was money to be made. :D
[21:32:06] <kad77> I'll leave it alone, sorry its so tiring. Who cares
[21:32:27] * kad77 and haiku is hardly big enough to warrant haiku-dev/haiku !!
[21:33:52] *** jevin has joined #haiku
[21:35:07] <_hugo> kad77: its not an issue of number of people but more of relevance of context. some people here are interesting in development related issues, others are interested in more general chatter, which is fine. like dr_evil mentioned, this can be distracting and we are better of coding
[21:36:09] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku
[21:36:09] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[21:37:14] <kad77> suggest topic "Don't discuss Haiku Foundation/Licensing please. We're all set, thanks."
[21:37:50] <mmu_man> plop
[21:37:52] <DeadYak> you'd be amazed how few people read the topic
[21:37:58] * DeadYak plops mmu_man
[21:38:03] <_hugo> kad77: i think people should be free to discuss whatever they want :-)
[21:38:04] <dr_evil> hi mmu_man
[21:38:15] <_hugo> kad77: this is a channel about #haiku anyway
[21:38:16] <kad77> hugo: ok, then. ;)
[21:38:31] <_hugo> thus why i mentioned a -dev variant, with a more specific context
[21:38:39] * DaaT pets mmadia
[21:38:40] <dr_evil> I just finished checking in all DVB related source, and did some cleanup during that. Now it won't compile at all ;)
[21:38:41] <DeadYak> _hugo: it's a channel about a channel? *g*
[21:38:42] <DaaT> oops...
[21:38:45] * DaaT pets mmu_man
[21:38:46] <DaaT> :P
[21:38:50] <meianoite> FAAAAALA DAAT!! :D
[21:38:53] <meianoite> quanto tempo!
[21:38:58] <_hugo> DeadYak: my bad :-)
[21:39:07] <DeadYak> _hugo: sorry for being an ass, I had to :)
[21:39:11] <DaaT> oi
[21:39:17] 
[21:39:19] <mmu_man> dr_evil aw, shame :)
[21:39:20] * _hugo pets DeadYak
[21:39:28] <meianoite> tudo, DaaT
[21:39:47] <meianoite> now I'm back to speaking English ;)
[21:39:50] <DaaT> :)
[21:40:23] <Stargater> oh stippi make some new icons :-)
[21:41:25] <mmu_man> now, with mcast on its way I can hope to be able to get rtsp working in vlc, or our media player
[21:41:29] <meianoite> DaaT seen it? after so many years, I finally came out of the closet... and began developing for Haiku ;D
[21:41:34] <mmu_man> wondering which is the best way to implement it
[21:41:46] <mmu_man> access plugins vs proto media nodes
[21:41:49] <mmu_man> or something else
[21:41:52] <dr_evil> fucking linux samba again going belly up :((((
[21:41:52] *** Minbari has joined #haiku
[21:41:57] <DaaT> good for you meianoite :)
[21:42:10] <meianoite> good for us all, I hope ;)
[21:42:25] <mmu_man> dr_evil NFS ? ;)
[21:43:07] <dr_evil> mmu_man I'm using ubuntu with samba to share some drives with windows, but it regulaly breaks down
[21:43:30] <tqh> Is the Haiku wiki online, or should I use the BeBits one for howto build Cairo?
[21:43:59] <mmu_man> usually don't have probs with samba
[21:44:19] <mmu_man> else than the fact that it's TCP based and TCP in windows sux, so through a VPN through the net it's painfully slow
[21:44:20] *** kr1stof has quit IRC
[21:44:33] <mmu_man> with 100ms ping I use max 5% of the available bandwidth
[21:44:52] * tqh uses the BeBits wiki
[21:44:54] <DeadYak> ouch.
[21:45:08] <mmu_man> funny for something called Common *Internet* File System =)
[21:45:50] <meianoite> mmu_man ever heard of buzzwords? :D
[21:45:52] <dr_evil> yeah, pretty dumb implementation if it can't deal with latencies
[21:45:59] <tqh> webdav seems to be quite poor in interop as well
[21:46:15] <mmu_man> well it's the windows TCP window that's stupidly small
[21:46:28] <meianoite> that's tunable
[21:46:28] <mmu_man> so it just sends 3 packets, waits for 3 acks before sending more
[21:46:41] <mmu_man> yes I tried to tweak teh registry, never worked
[21:46:52] * meianoite shrugs
[21:47:06] <mmu_man> I only managed to double speed with bigger tcp buffers on the linux side
[21:47:07] <meianoite> ever tried those myriad TCP tweakers for Windows?
[21:47:13] <dr_evil> _hugo will do better I hope :)
[21:47:18] <meianoite> instead of doing it manually?
[21:47:19] <mmu_man> yes I did try
[21:47:41] <mmu_man> I also tried those webdav clients that supposedly mount a net drive, with a samba-to-dav gateway
[21:47:45] <mmu_man> but it never worked
[21:47:46] <meianoite> ok, I'm short of ideas now. and no, I won't suggest you "try Vista", "try W2k3"
[21:47:53] <_hugo> TCP is funky. maybe windows has a broken slow start
[21:47:54] <meianoite> ;)
[21:48:34] <Grackle> Gah. *fails to boot BeOS Max on his mini ITX*
[21:48:45] <dr_evil> btw, samba drives shared by windows 2k are stable as hell, never ever experienced any problem with them
[21:48:47] <Grackle> Zeta boots, but I'm trying to avoid zeta.
[21:49:26] <DeadYak> dr_evil: you mean back when Windows used the BSD stack? :P
[21:49:45] <mmadia> tqh  there's always   http://bezilla.org/modules/wiwimod/
[21:50:03] <DeadYak> iirc it was with XP that they switched to an in-house stack, 2K was using I believe FBSD 4.3's
[21:50:58] <tqh> mmadia Cairo is not really just for Bezilla though
[21:51:17] <mmu_man> anyone has figures of net security holes from 2k vs XP ? ;)
[21:51:18] <Stargater> make new screenshots from haiku
[21:51:25] <Stargater> ........ca in 15 min
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[21:55:36] <Jixt> hi
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[22:00:18] <MYOB> is there a binary of the now required Jam online or do i need to co/build it myself
[22:00:40] <meianoite> geist are you around? care to discuss some numbers?
[22:00:49] <meianoite> MYOB I believe there is one @haiku's site
[22:01:07] <meianoite> geist *NOT* circular queues numbers :D
[22:01:08] <MYOB> meianoite I thought I had that ver, however the source was recently changed to allow longer arguments
[22:01:42] <meianoite> btw, hello, MYOB. long time no see, ever since BeShare times @Minox's
[22:02:07] <MYOB> meianoite I'm here and there (beshare) fairly frequently
[22:02:43] <meianoite> my computer won't boot BeOS =P and emulating it is not my cup of tea
[22:02:47] <meianoite> nor is Javashare
[22:02:53] <meianoite> (if that still exists)
[22:02:59] <MYOB> neither will mine... one of them boots Zeta though...
[22:03:17] <mmu_man> hey dr_evil, didn't we have a TV app already ?
[22:03:26] <mmu_man> like, bga was the official maintainer even :)
[22:03:33] <dr_evil> no
[22:03:36] <mmu_man> was for analog but didn't it work ok enough ?
[22:03:43] <MYOB> no, StampTV never made it in...
[22:04:36] <dr_evil> nope, to many strange assumptions about bt787 in stamptv
[22:05:41] <meianoite> bt878, rather?
[22:05:53] <MYOB> I need to get that DVB-T card you have, dr_evil, finally gone digital here...
[22:07:03] <MYOB> too few PCI slots for it and a sat card though
[22:07:53] <meianoite> dr_evil if you don't mind me asking, I got a bt878 card. it seems to repeat previous frames every so often, no matter if I'm using the vendor's drivers, btwincap's, DScaler's, or V4L2 when booting Linux
[22:08:02] <meianoite> that's likely a hardware fault then, no?
[22:08:25] <meianoite> I used to have another one which fried during a lightning storm =P
[22:08:35] *** Stargater has joined #haiku
[22:08:37] <Stargater> re
[22:09:32] *** the_webers_inc_ has joined #haiku
[22:10:20] <Stargater> http://tm.kaldience.com/data/php/dir.php?dir=/dir/members/stargater/bilder/haiku_shots/HAIKU_rev20710
[22:11:23] <meianoite> the boot volume leaf is the *cutest* *overlay* *ever*
[22:13:03] <mmu_man> another color would have made it... hmm ... illegal in some countries =)
[22:13:12] <MYOB> jam is using -pipe or whatever that option is by default now isn't it?
[22:13:29] * dr_evil is watching Weeds, season 1 eposide 1
[22:13:30] <MYOB> cause its absolutely obliterating my performance now
[22:14:00] <meianoite> mmu_man noticed that too. chose to keep my mouth shut before people would jump to conclusions regarding my recreational habits
[22:14:16] <MYOB> I like the SCART->RCA convertor for Cortext ;)
[22:14:55] * mmu_man doesn't smoke at all
[22:14:59] <Stargater> reboot
[22:15:02] *** Stargater has quit IRC
[22:15:10] * meianoite neither, I'm more of a coke guy
[22:15:13] <mmu_man> yes nice one for cortex
[22:15:18] <meianoite> (tm) the Coca-Cola Company
[22:15:27] <[Beta]> The nose + glasses is sheer comedy
[22:15:41] <MYOB> for which one?
[22:15:45] <[Beta]> Appearance
[22:15:46] <mmu_man> appearance
[22:15:57] <meianoite> Groucho rules
[22:16:05] <MYOB> missed that
[22:16:12] <MYOB> VLC clearly has a shit file cache
[22:16:24] <MYOB> mediaplayer = no jumps playing an mp3 while building haiku
[22:16:31] <mmu_man> it has one ? :)
[22:16:33] <MYOB> VLC = jumps around like an ADHD kid on speed
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[22:17:50] <DeadYak> dr_evil: what boards use JMicron SATA chips?
[22:17:55] <stargater> re
[22:19:17] <dr_evil> DeadYak AHCI is new standard for intel, via, jmicron, lots of others
[22:19:43] *** mmu_man has quit IRC
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[22:19:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man
[22:19:49] <DeadYak> dr_evil: one driver for all chipsets is possible then?
[22:20:21] <meianoite> dr_evil could you scroll up a bit? I asked you a question there, but it seems that you were busy watching TV :)
[22:20:22] <mmu_man> have you still not understood how the IT world works ?
[22:20:26] <mmu_man> ;)
[22:20:29] <dr_evil> only for new ones
[22:20:32] <DeadYak> well, yeah
[22:20:39] <dr_evil> meianoite uhh, lets see
[22:21:13] <cizra> Does Ruby run on Haiku?
[22:21:15] <DeadYak> dr_evil: thanks for working on it :)
[22:22:22] <dr_evil> meianoite bt878 yes, and I have no idea about that frame thing
[22:22:43] <meianoite> probably HW fault. damn =P
[22:22:49] *** kokito has joined #haiku
[22:23:02] <meianoite> hey kokito
[22:23:12] <kokito> howdy meianoite ;)
[22:23:13] <MYOB> I've never had a non-faulty bt8x8, in one way or another....
[22:23:40] * meianoite pets CCD-XP 32
[22:24:38] *** oco has joined #haiku
[22:25:40] <kokito> this channel is becoming quite popular lately...
[22:25:55] <mmu_man> indeed
[22:26:05] <kokito> don't think I've ever seen 81 people before
[22:26:09] <DeadYak> kokito: well, it's been getting quite some public attention lately
[22:26:16] <DaaT> kokito!
[22:26:21] <Sil2100> And it's so lively here too
[22:26:26] <kokito> howdy mmu_man & DeadYak & DaaT
[22:26:30] <Sil2100> Hi kokito
[22:26:31] <kokito> Sil2100,
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[22:28:09] <mmu_man> hi kokito
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[22:29:06] <kokito> ciao emitrax_
[22:29:48] <emitrax__> ciao koko
[22:30:06] <kokito> koko??
[22:30:10] <emitrax__> :)
[22:30:39] <Sil2100> Koko wa doko?
[22:30:56] <kokito> this is koko > http://www.koko.org
[22:31:12] <kokito> Sil2100, koko wa koko desu :P
[22:31:26] <Sil2100> Ah, sou desu
[22:31:29] <Sil2100> ...;p
[22:31:40] <kokito> oh! bikkuri!
[22:32:44] <tqh> First draft: http://wiki.bebits.com/page/BuildingCairo
[22:33:15] * mmadia 's already download the bits
[22:34:12] <kokito> soccer game. bbl.
[22:34:13] <stargater> apperance icons is cool = http://tm.kaldience.com/dir/members/stargater/bilder/haiku_shots/HAIKU_rev20710/screen3.png
[22:34:29] * DaaT slaps kokito
[22:34:54] <stargater> hi DaaT , kokito
[22:35:01] * tqh troutslaps DaaT
[22:35:03] <DaaT> hi
[22:35:08] * DaaT smacks tqh
[22:35:15] * tqh ducks
[22:35:15] *** kokito has quit IRC
[22:35:28] * JonathanThompson smacks DaaT with a pre-dazed sheep
[22:35:29] <DaaT> slow
[22:35:31] <DaaT> :P
[22:35:38] <tqh> hehe
[22:35:38] * TheDave throws a fit
[22:35:41] * DaaT sheeps JonathanThompson with a over-used sheep
[22:35:50] * JonathanThompson catches the fit and lobs it at DaaT
[22:35:53] <Sil2100> Most of the new icons are very innovative in my opinion, I was especially impressed with the MediaPlayer one sometime ago
[22:35:56] <TheDave> i can't get this *bleep*-ing project to compile properly
[22:36:15] <TheDave> i feel like a complete moron :P
[22:36:20] * DaaT ducks and covers (if it's good for the A-bomb it's good for a fit)
[22:36:21] * TheDave shakes fist at Jam
[22:36:23] * JonathanThompson notes DaaT has devolved to the speech patterns of a Smurf :)
[22:36:31] <TheDave> hehe
[22:36:40] <DaaT> hail Smurf!
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[22:37:13] * JonathanThompson imagines a street gang member threatening, "I'm gonna smurf you up!"
[22:37:31] <DaaT> don't forget the "biatch" at the end
[22:37:45] <TheDave> is anyone else seeing "skipped bfs_shell for lack of..." or are my eyes playing tricks on me?
[22:38:16] * JonathanThompson imagines he's been paying too much attention to DaaT, with sheepish wool pulled over his eyes as a result
[22:39:16] * JonathanThompson hands DaaT a large bowl of sheep-dip
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[22:40:16] <CIA-17> korli * r20711 /haiku/trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): implemented add_system_beep_event()
[22:40:54] <{V}> JonathanThompson, still as odd as ever, I see.
[22:41:20] <JonathanThompson> Why would I ever be even, when I can point out that I'm lopsided? :)
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[22:42:01] <TheDave> megad, the punnage is
[22:42:06] <TheDave> INSANE
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[22:42:41] * DaaT thanks JonathanThompson
[22:42:41] <{V}> hahahaha
[22:42:42] <JonathanThompson> Get used to it, TheDave :)
[22:42:42] <JonathanThompson> <--dubbed "
[22:42:42] <JonathanThompson> Pun Yoda" on another web forum
[22:42:59] <TheDave> hehe
[22:43:29] <JonathanThompson> That was due to me responding to something else, and putting 36-38 (hard to count) puns/entendres in a single sentence :)
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[22:44:02] <TheDave> that's mighty impressive, a well-deserved title I'd say
[22:44:03] <JonathanThompson> A long sentence, granted, but something on average every ~=6.6 words :)
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[22:44:52] <JonathanThompson> At a fairly recent employer (got laid off from them September last year) every time I visted HQ on the other side of the continent, almost every conversation I had involved a pun.
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[22:45:15] <JonathanThompson> <--"Dances with Puns"
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[22:45:47] <TheDave> i'm speechless and in awe :)
[22:45:56] <meianoite> JonathanThompson you might not be aware, but in the Brazilian variant of Portuguese language, "pun" means "fart"
[22:45:57] <{V}> ha ha, very punny.
[22:46:16] <meianoite> so I couldn't help but crack in laughter when you said "Dances with Puns"
[22:46:19] <JonathanThompson> <-- for this Pun Yoda, "The Farce is strong in this one!"
[22:46:54] <JonathanThompson> Funny how things (mis)translate  between languages :)
[22:47:17] * Grackle doesn't get why the Haiku HIG is better known as "how not to write software" ...that seems to say that Haiku programs are examples of bad software
[22:47:22] <JonathanThompson> Hey, the final name of the IDE I'm working on has more than 2 meanings in english, and one in German that also works well :)
[22:48:13] <Grackle> What name is that?
[22:48:25] <JonathanThompson> It's in the trademark process right now, last step.
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[22:48:35] <Grackle> hm ok
[22:48:50] <TheDave> hmm, are there any known problems in building the gcc-2.95 toolchain using gcc4?
[22:49:02] *** emitrax__ has joined #haiku
[22:49:23] <TheDave> trying to figure out why my building always farks up on this machine
[22:49:28] <{V}> JonathanThompson, the IDE previously (and currently?) known as project x?
[22:49:34] <JonathanThompson> Yes.
[22:49:49] <JonathanThompson> I've known the internal name I'd use before I announced it anywhere else, of course.
[22:50:18] <JonathanThompson> "Project X" was chosen as a codename for precisely the reason that it is incredibly generic and can't be trademarked.
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[22:54:55] <meianoite> anyone has a better suggestion for saturation other than something like that:
[22:54:56] <meianoite> Sup = ((prio + 5) > REALTIME_PRIO) ? REALTIME_PRIO : prio + 5;
[22:54:56] <meianoite> Inf = ((prio - 5) < IDLE_PRIO) ? IDLE_PRIO : prio - 5;
[22:54:57] <meianoite> ?
[22:55:37] <JonathanThompson> Let hardware solve the issue: create a new processor for each thread, and then don't worry about it :P
[22:55:41] <meianoite> (and notice that's NOT production code, only testing, and REALTIME_PRIO is just the upper bound -- I'm not that retarded to actually DO something like this =P)
[22:56:09] <mmu_man> note IDLE is not part of the user range
[22:56:18] <mmu_man> it's only for the kernel's idle thread
[22:56:33] <meianoite> mmu_man mentally extend my disclaimer to IDLE_PRIO as well
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[22:56:57] <mmu_man> reminds me I need to change my code in renice
[22:57:08] <mmu_man> it shouldn't include the RT range to map unix prios
[22:57:28] <meianoite> still...
[22:57:54] <meianoite> is that really as good as it gets regarding saturation, barring assembly MMX and such?
[23:00:38] <mmu_man> mmx just to cal sched prios ?
[23:00:40] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20712 /haiku/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
[23:00:40] <CIA-17> ARP now queues packets while resolving a destination instead of blocking on send_data(). This fixes several issues:
[23:00:40] <CIA-17>  - TCP now behaves correctly when receiving new connections as its SYN/ACK is queued, or if lost correctly retransmitted when the peer resends a SYN.
[23:00:40] <CIA-17>  - The first ICMP Replies from an external on-link host pinging Haiku are no longer lost.
[23:00:43] <CIA-17>  - Reduced the number of ARP messages Haiku needs to generate until resolving an entry.
[23:00:44] <mmu_man> is that for teh scheduler ?
[23:00:44] <CIA-17> hugosantos * r20713 /haiku/trunk/src/bin/network/arp/arp.cpp: print the new 'active' flag in arp entries
[23:00:49] <meianoite> mmu_man pleeeeeeeease :)
[23:00:54] <meianoite> I'm not using MMX ;)
[23:01:04] <mmu_man> I don't know. besides it's sunday :P
[23:01:07] <meianoite> only trying to find a decent idiom
[23:01:24] <_hugo> meianoite: i think you worry too much about tiny things
[23:01:29] <_hugo> but thats just me
[23:01:34] <meianoite> so do I
[23:01:51] <meianoite> I just don't want to write stupid code.
[23:02:10] <JonathanThompson> Write potentually stupid at first, see where you've been stupid, then rewrite.
[23:02:10] <meianoite> I'm trying to balance readability and efficiency
[23:02:17] <JonathanThompson> It's "software" after all, and readily changed :)
[23:02:23] <meianoite> JonathanThompson the code as it stands is VERY stupod
[23:02:36] <_hugo> meianoite: let the compiler worry about efficiency. you just care about _algorithm_ efficiency, not expressions
[23:02:37] <JonathanThompson> Go first for readability, and ensure that it works, meianoite.
[23:02:42] <meianoite> now I'm trying to write something decent ;)
[23:03:21] <JonathanThompson> _hugo is right: let the compiler do the grunt work for making the code efficient, outside of a good algorithm.  If you make it unreadable but "efficient" you may have created an efficient bug.
[23:03:36] <meianoite> guys, please
[23:03:46] <meianoite> it's just curiosity
[23:03:48] <kad77> given the scheduler is WIP code, why not focus on readability, inline notes, and optimize when the implementation tests out?
[23:04:28] <JonathanThompson> It's always easier to optimize thoughts/code later if you find something that works and is readable now.
[23:04:44] <kad77> exactly
[23:05:01] <meianoite> guys, please, it's JUST CURIOSITY
[23:05:10] <JonathanThompson> Wrong channel :)
[23:05:13] <meianoite> and there are only so many ways to implement saturation
[23:05:18] <kad77> nobody is giving you a hard time, andre
[23:05:22] <siarzhuk> mmu_man I have read your comment about USB Serial driver on bebits. I can put your binaries as alternate version.
[23:05:35] <mmu_man> sure
[23:05:40] <mmu_man> don't you have a tree you can build ?
[23:05:48] <JonathanThompson> This isn't the "We don't care about things" IRC channel :)
[23:06:09] <mmu_man> TARGET_PLATFORM=r5 jam usb-serial-cvs-or-whatever-teh-name-was
[23:06:27] <JonathanThompson> In your usage, saturation refers to mxed out CPU usage, meianoite?
[23:06:34] <kad77> its just suggestions. I may not have done a lot on haiku, but I have written tens of thousands lines of code... clarity to other ppl is important
[23:06:35] <siarzhuk> Frankly speaking I was made some changes about this HX in pl2303... But not sure that those changes were applied to my cvs. I have not touched those code about years ...
[23:06:38] <mmu_man> JonathanThompson it's more the "we don't care" day, aka sunday :)
[23:06:40] <JonathanThompson> mxed=maxed
[23:07:00] <meianoite> JonathanThompson it's just bounds
[23:07:03] <JonathanThompson> mmu_man, I always care about readable/maintainable code :)
[23:07:05] <meianoite> I can't transpass
[23:07:09] <mmu_man> siarzhuk I don't remember seeing HX stuff before adding it
[23:07:18] <siarzhuk> I know.
[23:07:21] <siarzhuk> :-)
[23:07:40] <mmu_man> hmm I have zeta here, I hope building for dano would work, it's for a driver anyway
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[23:07:56] <meianoite> I must index a range inside an array
[23:08:08] <meianoite> but I can't guarantee that  the whole range lies inside the array boundaries
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[23:09:52] <siarzhuk> ok. I'll overview all my changes here and do something.
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[23:10:43] * mmu_man pets diff :)
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[23:11:56] <meianoite> besides, _hugo, this is part of critical codepath. I did run gprof =P
[23:12:14] <mmu_man> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/haiku-usb_serial-cvs.zip bin is here
[23:12:30] <siarzhuk> mmu_man The second question - who is working on ps2 keyb support? I have the problem - looks like touchpad and inbound keyboard on my laptop are not recognized.
[23:12:33] <siarzhuk> ok.
[23:12:41] <mmu_man> should be korli IIRC
[23:12:54] <_hugo> meianoite: too early to tell. all optimizations should follow empirically found bottlenecks
[23:13:07] <meianoite> trust me
[23:13:11] <meianoite> it IS *the* bottleneck
[23:13:52] <_hugo> im not going to argue with you :-) early optimizations are bad
[23:14:18] <meianoite> aye...
[23:14:33] <meianoite> this code is 3 years old.
[23:14:43] <meianoite> how "early" can this be? =P
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[23:18:44] <korli> mmu_man: if you mean ps2 bus manager, it would be dr_evil
[23:18:58] <mmu_man> hot potato... lol
[23:20:23] <siarzhuk> hi korli. the ps2 on "extgernal" ps2 port is ok. only inbound tocuhpad and keyboard look like dead. :-)
[23:20:56] <korli> siarzhuk: sorry I can't help
[23:22:20] <siarzhuk> well. I know the one who can help. His name is Bug Tracker, yes? ;-)
[23:24:01] <korli> or a USB keyboard/mouse :)
[23:24:29] <Pulko_Mandy> +++
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[23:24:32] <mmu_man> tried to enable/disable USB legacy ?
[23:24:35] <siarzhuk> this is another story ... I have ohci controller
[23:24:36] <mmu_man> in the bios
[23:24:48] <mmu_man> sometimes the BIOS is dumb :)
[23:25:44] <korli> have to go, bye
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[23:39:35] * _hugo wonders
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[23:56:32] <dr_evil> does anyone know a useable web interface for freenode.net?
[23:57:10] <dr_evil> cgi:irc or somethinglike that, but all I found are non-working

   April 15, 2007  
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