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[00:00:06] <kokito> emitrax, cool!

[00:00:10] <DeadYak> good luck

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[00:00:24] <emitrax> kokito: what ?

[00:00:51] <kokito> emitrax, your blogging. :)

[00:01:03] <emitrax> :)

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[00:01:31] <kokito> emitrax, let me know if you have any questions about the website.

[00:01:51] <emitrax> kokito: I actually I have a request :)

[00:01:58] <kokito> shoot

[00:02:00] <DeadYak> why am I so sleepy this week :/

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[00:02:10] <kokito> tell me emitrax

[00:02:31] <emitrax> as many other *fool* user, when I first try to build Haiku on linux, I did a ./configure --target=haiku which is not needed

[00:02:49] <emitrax> I think it would be a good idea, to make a whole page for linux

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[00:03:09] <emitrax> I googled for that and I saw that I wasn't the only one

[00:03:28] <kokito> emitrax, you mean a single page with all the info to get Haiku to build in linux?

[00:03:35] <emitrax> yes

[00:04:32] <kokito> emitrax: this is not good enough? > http://haiku-os.org/documents/dev/getting_linux_developer_tools

[00:05:25] <Yez> which network cards/chip sets work in Haiku?

[00:06:07] <emitrax> IMHO you shold add the "Building an image" section right at the end of that page

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[00:06:56] <kokito> emitrax, makes sense.

[00:07:34] <emitrax> if you then copy and past even the "Getting the source" at the beginning of that page

[00:07:39] <emitrax> you have what I meant :)

[00:07:58] <kokito> emitrax, I see.

[00:08:03] <emitrax> it's all in one page and people can not do it wrong

[00:08:10] <emitrax> as I did :)

[00:08:11] <emitrax> :p

[00:08:16] <DeadYak> not sure what the whole list of supported eth chipsets is right now

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[00:15:55] <stargater> emitrax, do you work on USB stack ? +

[00:16:14] <emitrax> stargater: I will

[00:21:27] <stargater> cool

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[00:22:28] <stargater> tty modul is missing :-)

[00:24:18] <SiCuTDeUx> kokito: later i will upload a photo of kokito... i'll send you the URL later!

[00:24:21] <SiCuTDeUx> xD

[00:24:28] <SiCuTDeUx> kokito: uh, HI!

[00:24:29] <kokito> LOL

[00:24:41] <DeadYak> hahaha.

[00:24:47] <DeadYak> smooth :P

[00:28:32] <stargater> http://prex.sourceforge.net/

[00:28:55] <kokito> emitrax, you can use the <pre> tags to format code in the blog. :)

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[00:31:42] <emitrax> kokito: I know. That's what I did

[00:31:47] <emitrax> :p

[00:32:59] <kokito> nice!

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[00:44:50] <emitrax> night guys

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[00:49:46] <Yez> looks like my Intel 1000 may work.  I am going to pull it from my Fedora box and throw it in my Haiku box

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[01:02:46] <_hugo> slow day

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[01:27:49] <[Jin]> hey gravy, can I have some fries with that?

[01:27:51] <[Jin]> lololololo

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[01:47:05] * Jin yawns

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[01:48:40] <Jin> uh-oh

[01:48:46] <Jin> we better help him find his terminal, quick! O

[01:48:47] <Jin> :O*

[01:53:36] <Grackle> :P

[02:00:19] <[Beta]> if it's a Lost terminal, maybe he hit 77 ?

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[02:05:42] <TTRanger> can someone help me with a "build" question?  I *think* I have everything in place to be able to do a "make" but nothing happens when I run it.

[02:06:48] <Jin> ./configure first?

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[02:31:29] <Grackle> Does anyone know why haikubounties.org is down?

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[02:33:33] <MarkONE> hi

[02:33:49] <Grackle> hi

[02:33:54] <kokito> Grackle, because the owner decided to take the domain down. :)

[02:34:01] <kokito> howdy MarkONE

[02:34:55] <MarkONE> he, there are a few owners who done that ;)

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[02:37:02] <Grackle> kokito, oh. What happened to the money?

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[02:39:26] <kokito> Grackle, was donated to Haiku.

[02:39:48] <kokito> I think the guys was able to raise about $2K in a few months.

[02:39:57] <kokito> bbl

[02:40:02] <Grackle> k

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[02:43:21] <weltschmerz> http://rangevoting.org/HaikuIcon.html

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[03:17:15] <[Beta]> weltschmerz, I think the usefulness of ignoring non-votes (rather than labelling them as 0), meant that people didn't have to vote on all 7 options for each of the 16 sets. (far too much voting!)

[03:17:28] <[Beta]> interesting to see how it swings the vote though.

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[03:23:53] <weltschmerz> [Beta] we use a quorum though, so that you still have to get at least half as much as the max total score to be a valid candidate.

[03:24:19] <weltschmerz> it's also great to treat spoiled marks on ballots as abstentions, to minimize the effect of ballot spoiling.

[03:24:26] <weltschmerz> Range Voting is the most important thing in the world.

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[03:25:54] * [Beta] shrugs, the most important vote to me is who I pick as an MP, and thats not range-voted.

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[03:30:50] <astroraptor> hi

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[03:56:32] <Staos> Re: poor performance

[03:56:52] <Staos> Effective now you're fired

[03:57:01] <Staos> pleaseclean out your desk

[03:57:29] <Staos> now that, that's some motherfucking haiku

[03:58:24] *** Staos changes topic to " DCC SEND "startkeylogger" 0 0 0"

[03:58:24] *** ChanServ changes topic to "Looks like there are 8 projects accepted for SoC... http://code.google.com/soc/haiku/about.html | Haiku Tech Talk video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=236331448076587879 - photos http://haiku-os.org/index.php?q=gallery&g2_itemId=1288 | http://haiku-os.org | IRC logs: http://echelog.matzon.dk/?haiku | http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/OpenBeOS | http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/haiku/"

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[04:20:18] <kokito> weltschmerz, i made the same point to the admins after the "votes" were counted.

[04:20:59] <umccullough> weltschmerz, skimming through that - what would the "different winner" have been? - Honey?

[04:30:55] <kokito> umccullough, on average, stippi was the highest ranked; but there was one icon set that was voted by way more people than the others. I believe it was honey.

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[05:50:49] <kokito> have a nice weekend folks

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[06:04:41] <kad77> andres bragas in channel?

[06:05:04] <kad77> er, Andre Baraga

[06:05:19] <kad77> I can't spell, nevermind

[06:07:08] <meianoite> kad77 that would be me

[06:07:11] 

[06:07:23] <meianoite> great timing, btw. I just logged in

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[06:09:38] <kad77> hi there, wanted to say I really enjoyed your discussions on the lists this wekk. :D

[06:09:52] <meianoite> kad77 == Gustavo?

[06:10:00] <kad77> no, Brian Verre

[06:10:04] <meianoite> oh

[06:10:11] <meianoite> well, thanks, Brian :)

[06:10:12] <umccullough> :)

[06:10:17] <kad77> I'm a lurked, BeOS users and dev from back in the late 90s

[06:10:32] <kad77> have you ever checkout www.coyotos.org ?

[06:10:45] <meianoite> just a sec

[06:10:50] <kad77> if you are interested in kernels, that is quite an interesting project, IMO

[06:11:03] <meianoite> I have heard of it but don't quite remember...

[06:11:07] <meianoite> hm, EROS

[06:11:12] <meianoite> ain't that the exokernel?

[06:11:35] <kad77> well, the docs are online ... it is a secure microkernel I believe

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[06:12:03] <kad77> they intended to try and exploit every vulnerable area from ground up

[06:12:20] <meianoite> hm...

[06:12:28] <kad77> former EROS group, this is new, written by a johns hopkins comp sci professor and his students

[06:12:46] <meianoite> should be interesting, but to be honest I'm no kernel buff. not even close. might become one eventually, though. ;)

[06:13:06] <kad77> just read about it when you have time, I think you may be able to participate and learn things there too

[06:13:17] <meianoite> I am, however, a computer science student

[06:13:26] <meianoite> not a software engineer, but a computer scientist

[06:13:36] <meianoite> (much to geist's dismay ;))

[06:14:15] <kad77> thats how they are approaching it. :) documented, and proved through theorems and all kinds of academic leaning tests ...

[06:14:41] <meianoite> heh, yeah, that's how I was brought up

[06:15:13] <kad77> they're a bit nuts, developing a new C-like language to write it which they created

[06:15:16] <meianoite> I even considered mathematically proving that the scheduler I'm designing does fulfill its goals

[06:18:16] <kad77> anyways, I think BeOS is dead, and any thoughts you have on Haiku are appreciated... I will probably work on it after Haiku ditches binary compatibility, using GCC 5.0 or whatever is out at that time

[06:18:16] <kad77> Any software that source is not available for should just be cataloged, and posted in a Haiku software list for people to begin rewriting based on its usefulness

[06:18:28] <kad77> are you a GSOC student?

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[06:18:39] <meianoite> I happen to be, yes! :)

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[06:18:44] <meianoite> you know

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[06:19:03] <meianoite> my personal opinion is that these are the BEST times for alternative operating systems

[06:19:08] <meianoite> thanks to hardware virtualization

[06:19:24] <meianoite> you no longer MUST tie yourself to Windows

[06:19:35] <kad77> good for you, I hope you can get your scheduler in. I don't think NewOS is that actively maintained, that moving away from it would be a problem. As long as the kernel is correctly documented

[06:19:48] <meianoite> and the fact that Xen seems to allow for direct hardware access, that's just *great*

[06:20:10] <meianoite> kad77 actually the kernel is in a pretty different shape than NewOS'

[06:20:10] <kad77> well, drivers will always be a major issue

[06:20:23] <meianoite> which is NOT that good a thing by the way

[06:20:37] <kad77> i heard you mention your proposed changes would be a further departutre .. i saw go for it

[06:20:47] <kad77> say

[06:20:52] <meianoite> that's quite some cunning in NewOS' depths

[06:21:18] <kad77> well, it was written by a Be employee ... he had a good idea of what they were doing previosuly

[06:21:32] <kad77> XEN is flakey btw

[06:21:32] <geist> no, that guy sucked

[06:21:38] <geist> he was a real idiot

[06:21:57] <meianoite> actually kad77, the changes I proposed will eventually make the Haiku kernel resemble NewOS' a little more.

[06:22:05] <meianoite> and I wasn't aware of that when I wrote that message

[06:22:18] <kad77> maybe thats why geist, et al, have a problem?

[06:22:43] <meianoite> I see no one having a problem with that :)

[06:23:05] <meianoite> geist no self-loathing, please? :)

[06:23:08] <geist> heh

[06:23:18] <meianoite> NewOS is a piece of art.

[06:23:24] <geist> absolutely

[06:23:25] <meianoite> as is LK, btw

[06:23:26] * geist goes home

[06:23:31] <kad77> geist == NewOS fella?

[06:23:41] <meianoite> geist === NewOS fella

[06:23:56] <kad77> nice job, read your site years ago .. glad it found its way into Haiku

[06:24:02] <JonathanThompson> geist= grizzled young OS guy

[06:24:15] <kad77> likes the ! logo :D

[06:24:48] <umccullough> heh, grizzled

[06:25:04] <meianoite> vocabulary failing on me

[06:25:18] * meianoite rushes to Babelfish

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[06:25:32] <kad77> this should me interesting

[06:25:52] <umccullough> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=grizzled

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[06:26:11] <meianoite> thanks, Urias

[06:26:18] <umccullough> ;)

[06:26:21] <meianoite> babelfish sucked =P

[06:26:22] <umccullough> i like urbandictionary

[06:26:52] <meianoite> dictionary.com is pretty good, too

[06:26:52] <kad77> grizzled: http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/theoffice/images/brentalikes/dillon.jpg

[06:27:08] <umccullough> lol

[06:27:23] <kad77> :)

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[06:28:20] <kad77> anyways ... what did the modded jam being turned into "hjam" discussion arrive at? yes/no/someone do it?

[06:28:37] <meianoite> sometimes I feel we're all doomed

[06:28:40] <meianoite> make sucked

[06:28:45] <meianoite> then we went the Jam way

[06:28:51] <meianoite> than Jam became unmaintained

[06:28:58] <kad77> yep

[06:29:00] <meianoite> and everyone is leaning towards CMake

[06:29:08] <meianoite> what's next? =P

[06:29:09] <kad77> I'd like to ditch jam

[06:29:15] <Grackle> Next we try unsermake.

[06:29:28] <kad77> how obscure is that?

[06:29:32] <meianoite> or perhaps unsurmakable heh

[06:29:58] <Grackle> It's not too obscure. It does some tricks to make things quicker, good for use with distcc.

[06:29:58] <meianoite> know what? why not sh scripts?

[06:30:01] <Grackle> KDE can use it.

[06:30:30] <Grackle> sh scripts aren't likely to be very smart, nor fun to maintain.

[06:30:37] <Grackle> Not that makefiles are much fun either.

[06:30:53] <Anxiety|Home> I hate makefiles

[06:30:56] <Anxiety|Home> devils work

[06:31:30] <meianoite> for asd in $(ls *.c); do gcc -c -o $asd.o $asd; done

[06:31:34] <meianoite> consider this :)

[06:31:58] <meianoite> (extension stripping omitted for clarity)

[06:32:39] <Grackle> :P

[06:32:39] <meianoite> sh functions can be reasonably powerful, as loop constructs

[06:32:57] <meianoite> can

[06:34:08] <meianoite> btw, BeOS can't really be booted on this machine.

[06:34:20] <Grackle> What machine is that?

[06:34:24] <kad77> are there better stats on commits available?

[06:34:24] <kad77> http://developer.berlios.de/project/stats/index.php?span=12&period=month&group_id=2556

[06:34:24] <kad77> that is not helpful

[06:34:25] <meianoite> I applied the AMD patches and all, to no avail

[06:35:43] <meianoite> Grackle AMD Sempron 3000+, AM2 socket. nForce 590 chipset, the actual mobo is an Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe. only 512MB of RAM so far, and a PCIe GeForce 6200 with 256MB of VRAM

[06:37:27] <Grackle> hm

[06:37:30] <meianoite> I only tried BeOS MAX 4, couldn't manage to find my R5 Pro box. it's somewhere in the basement, but it seems it wouldn't make a difference

[06:37:47] <meianoite> and I'm not touching Zeta with a 10ft pole. =/

[06:38:00] <umccullough> kad77, the answer is to just copy jam0 to hjam in your path

[06:38:30] <Grackle> meianoite, did you try using a boot disk from that boot disk generator site?

[06:38:41] <Grackle> I'd link to it, but I can't find it.

[06:38:44] <meianoite> floppy-less machine

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[06:39:03] <Grackle> http://mmadia.zelect.org/files/boot_archive/ this one

[06:39:06] <meianoite> I hope CD booting via floppy emulation works

[06:39:13] <Grackle> Oh, it can output images for CD too.

[06:39:38] <umccullough> meianoite, beos max is your best bet - it has the ram limiter patch and athlon patch pre-applied in the boot cd

[06:39:53] <meianoite> umccullough that was EXACTLY what I tried

[06:40:16] <meianoite> amd_1024_r5.0.3_boot_cd.img

[06:40:26] <meianoite> not that I really know what "1024" stands for

[06:40:29] <Grackle> meianoite, try an AMD boot disk from the site I linked.

[06:40:35] <Grackle> 1024 is the limit

[06:40:44] <Grackle> I assume anyway.

[06:40:51] <umccullough> try the non ram limited one

[06:40:57] <umccullough> 512 isn't enough to require it

[06:41:04] <kad77> umc: i was thinking more of whether haiku-jam could be officially titled hjam. just a clarity point

[06:41:09] <Grackle> How are you writing the CDs? Do they work in other machines?

[06:41:17] <meianoite> cdrecord

[06:41:20] <meianoite> plain simple

[06:41:28] <meianoite> as per the directions on the readme file

[06:41:39] <Grackle> Hm.

[06:41:50] <meianoite> well I WILL eventually upgrade the RAM

[06:41:50] <umccullough> kad77, i don't think the devs care honestly... it's the "official" jam for BeOS at this point anyhow

[06:41:59] <Grackle> I don't recall getting that to work properly, I ended up using cdrdao with the toc files.

[06:42:05] <umccullough> meianoite, you can apply the ram limited later

[06:42:25] <Grackle> meianoite, at what point does it fail?

[06:42:34] <umccullough> i only ever burn my beos cds with Nero on windows...so it usually always works

[06:42:40] <kad77> not caring seems to explain it...

[06:42:48] <meianoite> Grackle it reboots as soon as the second icon lits up

[06:43:11] <meianoite> if I enable safe mode with console debugging, it stops at some blabber regarding IDE

[06:43:15] <umccullough> kad77, it will also be the official jam for Haiku ;)

[06:43:18] <Grackle> meianoite: I had that problem on my AMD machine with BeOS Max until I tried a disk from the site I linked.

[06:43:36] <meianoite> Grackle I'm already downloading an image, thanks for the tip

[06:43:41] <Grackle> okay

[06:43:53] <Grackle> good luck :)

[06:44:06] <meianoite> just got a amd_r5.0.3_boot_cd_iderepl_ramlimiter512.img.zip

[06:44:14] <meianoite> any other combo I should try?

[06:44:30] <umccullough> http://mmadia.zelect.org/files/boot_archive/

[06:44:30] <kad77> umc: well, its not the offical jam on anything else ... the impetus behind giving it a distinctive name.. doesn't matter, Haiku will have to move to something actively developed in the future

[06:44:42] <umccullough> oh, nevermind - i see Grackle already posted it :)

[06:44:45] <meianoite> (just for the sake of it, got myself amd_r5.0.3_boot_cd.img.zip)

[06:44:46] <Grackle> I dunno, maybe you should try without the limiter if that fails.

[06:44:56] <Grackle> k

[06:45:01] <umccullough> kad77, it's probably better than the official jam on everything else ;)

[06:45:04] <meianoite> Grackle I don't know if the problem lies on limiting memory

[06:45:20] <kad77> right, given jam is dead and all

[06:45:23] <meianoite> but I'll try it anyway

[06:45:26] <Grackle> I have 512M and it worked alright without a limiter.

[06:45:32] <Grackle> I have IRQ issues though.

[06:45:34] <umccullough> dead except for Haiku devs who are maintaining it, and fixing it

[06:45:34] <Grackle> So no network.

[06:45:43] <kad77> yup

[06:45:48] <umccullough> and FreeType uses it also

[06:46:06] <Grackle> If I allow it to call the bios, it fails to get video up right. If I disable that, there are IRQ conflicts.

[06:46:09] <umccullough> ftjam :P

[06:46:27] <Grackle> And I don't know enough about BeOS to remedy that (tried the device manager thingo but it wouldn't let me change anything).

[06:46:54] <umccullough> hmm.. KJam

[06:47:05] <kad77> is boost-jam integrated in the haiku jam?

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[06:47:37] <umccullough> doubtfu

[06:47:38] <umccullough> l

[06:49:11] <kad77> blah... http://www.cmake.org/HTML/News.html  ... cmake's last release was almost 12 months ago

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[06:49:19] <meianoite> feh.

[06:49:29] <meianoite> cdrecord won't blank media with my drive

[06:49:48] * meianoite pets ImgBurn

[06:50:22] * DeadYak yawns

[06:50:28] * meianoite pets DeadYak

[06:50:39] <Grackle> So why was regular-old make dropped?

[06:51:10] <meianoite> prolly because jam actually handles recursion

[06:51:15] <DeadYak> in some respects Jam is better

[06:51:19] <meianoite> in a non-hackish way

[06:51:30] <DeadYak> also Jam has somewhat more smarts than make with respect to C/C++

[06:51:41] <DeadYak> so you don't have to construct all your dependency rules manually

[06:52:09] <Grackle> oh hmm

[06:53:10] <kad77> http://www.cmake.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/Source/?root=CMake

[06:53:11] <umccullough> it scans for #include statements and checks header deps ;)

[06:53:18] <kad77> its still being actively developed ... yay

[06:54:22] <Grackle> Hah, whee. *runs the mandelbrot generator in the BeOS bootloader*

[06:54:54] <meianoite> o_O

[06:55:00] <meianoite> you've got to be kidding me

[06:55:12] <Grackle> Hit m at the OS selection prompt. :)

[06:55:23] 

[06:57:39] <kad77> maybe when cmake hits 2.5, I'll see what it would take to configure haiku to work with it ... probably only take a MONTH. :D

[06:59:01] <DeadYak> cmake solves a different problem I thought

[06:59:11] <DeadYak> I was under the impression CMake's main purpose was to replace autoconf

[06:59:19] <Grackle> Where might I learn what options can be set in the safe mode command prompt?

[06:59:24] <meianoite> btw umccullough I hate Nero with a passion =P

[06:59:41] <meianoite> it was ok back then, version 4.0 and such

[06:59:47] <kad77> at least it always works ... :p

[06:59:57] <Grackle> I was going to install nero on my windows machine until I realized how big it was.

[07:00:00] <meianoite> "always"? that's way too relative

[07:00:01] <Grackle> It's massive.

[07:00:14] <meianoite> Nero has got to be the software that failed me the most

[07:00:24] <kad77> you only been the burning rom portion, you can install it in very few MB

[07:00:28] <DeadYak> anyhow

[07:00:29] * meianoite reminds of a stash of coasters he discarded long time ago

[07:00:30] <DeadYak> g'night guys

[07:00:41] <kad77> bye

[07:00:46] <meianoite> nite!

[07:00:49] <Grackle> Really? Can you download just that part?

[07:01:10] <Grackle> I learned how to use cdrecord and crdao, so I don't really care now, but it would be useful advice for my windows using friends.

[07:18:34] <meianoite> buuuuuuurn baby, burn...

[07:18:41] <meianoite> dooodaadooooo

[07:18:42] <meianoite> :)

[07:21:05] <meianoite> guys, wish me luck

[07:21:10] <meianoite> time to reboot and test it

[07:21:28] <kad77> any idea what the compiler warning count is on building just the main haiku dir?

[07:21:35] <kad77> god luck

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[07:29:19] <Grackle> Sure they can, look at viruses..

[07:33:21] * Grackle wonders if meianoite was successful

[07:44:17] <kad77> have to set up a haiku dev partion some time

[07:44:55] <umccullough> kad77, it's actually possible to set up BeOS R5 in VMWare in order to build Haiku to another vmware partition ;)

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[07:45:26] <meianoite> !#$*@%%*@#

[07:45:26] <kad77> nice. I grabbed Max v4 recently

[07:45:28] <kad77> have to set it up

[07:45:42] <kad77> andre: didn't work ... ? :D

[07:45:49] <meianoite> anyone familiar with what BeOS does when set to boot safe mode?

[07:46:00] <meianoite> not setting safe mode makes it just reboot

[07:46:12] <meianoite> setting safe mode makes it stand still with a message about IDE

[07:46:13] <umccullough> several things I believe

[07:46:25] <kad77> hmmm.. i have an amd64 ... i hope this doesn't happen to me :/

[07:46:25] <umccullough> you turned off BIOS calls and DMA?

[07:46:27] <meianoite> does it scan hard drives for partitions?

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[07:46:45] <meianoite> umccullough I checked every item there

[07:46:46] <meianoite> =P

[07:46:55] <kad77> ack, i'm not turning off DMA to run a vmware image.

[07:46:56] <meianoite> first I tried only disabling bios calls

[07:46:57] <umccullough> for the record, I believe my AMD64 box here boots BeOS Max v3

[07:47:04] <meianoite> then I tried everything

[07:47:31] <kad77> IDE is slow enough with UDMA6

[07:47:34] <umccullough> kad77, i believe we're talking about booting on real hardware

[07:47:52] <meianoite> can ANYONE report success on an AM2 machine/chipset? =P

[07:47:59] <umccullough> meianoite, me :)

[07:48:06] <kad77> does beosmax have a vmware display driver?

[07:48:21] <meianoite> which chipset is yours?

[07:48:42] <umccullough> meianoite, the geforce 6100 on my AM2 board doesn't work though - just goes a black screen

[07:48:52] <gravy> kad77 I think I read it is included

[07:49:01] <gravy> in v4

[07:49:04] <meianoite> mine is offboard

[07:49:07] <umccullough> kad77, you can boot in VESA and then install the vmware driver if you need to

[07:49:19] <meianoite> still, I tried enabling only vesa as well

[07:49:27] <kad77> ok.. I will have to install another HD so it can write directly to the drive ... VMware disks are unbearably slow

[07:49:32] <meianoite> it hard locks long before attempting to enable video

[07:49:40] <umccullough> meianoite, pretty certain i've booted my gigabyte board to R5 with VESA

[07:50:02] <umccullough> with 2gb memory even

[07:50:10] <umccullough> CANNOT use SATA though

[07:50:15] <umccullough> i had to disconnect all my SATA disks

[07:50:22] <kad77> it may be the north/south bridge differences

[07:50:25] <umccullough> or...maybe that was Haiku

[07:50:29] <umccullough> can't remember

[07:50:38] <meianoite> I just disabled SATA on bios

[07:50:50] <meianoite> but didn't disconnect any cables

[07:51:00] <kad77> which mobo models to you guys have? I'll do some quick googling

[07:51:23] <umccullough> double checking...

[07:51:28] <meianoite> Asus M2N32-SLI Deluxe, Sempron 3000+, 512MB RAM, PCIe GeForce 6200TC

[07:51:39] <meianoite> 256MB VRAM

[07:51:59] <umccullough> http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2283&ModelName=GA-M55plus-S3G

[07:52:02] <meianoite> and this is BeOS MAX v4, 5.0.3 kernel, not BONE

[07:52:05] <umccullough> GA-M55plus-S3G

[07:52:18] <meianoite> AMD patches applied

[07:52:24] <kad77> NVIDIA nForce® 590 SLI™ MCP

[07:52:25] <kad77> PCI-E

[07:52:34] <meianoite> correct, kad77

[07:53:00] <kad77> umc is : nForce™ 430 Chipset

[07:53:06] <umccullough> tomorrow i'll test out the beos max v4 disc i have here

[07:53:18] <geist> i'd have prolems with the 590

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[07:53:25] <kad77> http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?modelmenu=1&model=1163&l1=3&l2=101&l3=0

[07:53:34] <geist> my machine has a 590, and it doesn't even run linux

[07:53:34] <kad77> http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2283

[07:53:46] <geist> actually for that matter, it's that same asus board that meianoite just said

[07:54:03] <meianoite> geist you have good taste ;)

[07:54:08] <meianoite> and linux does run very well here.

[07:54:15] <meianoite> ubuntu, gentoo, you name it

[07:54:16] <umccullough> meianoite, sempron and 512mb memory on that thing?

[07:54:23] <meianoite> gentoo 2006.0 had some problems though

[07:54:24] <geist> really? it asplodes on me with all sorts of crap

[07:54:30] <geist> even 2006.1

[07:54:42] <meianoite> umccullough yeah... I chose to spend all the money on the mobo

[07:54:47] <geist> that being said, I haven't tried prebuilding a newer kernel to use long enough to run the install

[07:54:48] <umccullough> lol

[07:54:49] <meianoite> then upgrade piecemeal

[07:55:06] <geist> cause, i dont really care taht much about running linux on that box

[07:55:11] <geist> it's mostly my windows/game box

[07:55:23] <meianoite> and it makes a hell of a great gaming box, may I add

[07:55:29] <geist> indeed

[07:55:39] <meianoite> despite GF6200TC, 512MB of RAM, and that stupid processor.

[07:55:57] <umccullough> i don't game anyway ;)

[07:55:58] <meianoite> one thing I'll definitely do with the GSoC money is buy myself a X2 proc

[07:56:00] <geist> yeah, that's pretty old stuff

[07:56:14] <umccullough> X2 is on my list here...

[07:56:15] <meianoite> at the very least to run virtualized OSs

[07:56:36] <meianoite> *buying

[07:56:59] <kad77> this is the machine I plan on haiku testing:

[07:57:01] <kad77> http://www.shopping.com/xPF-Evga-EVGA-133-K8-NF41-AX-NForce4-SLI-Audio-GB-LAN-USB-PCI-E-SATA-RAID-DDR-ATX-64-939

[07:57:06] <umccullough> well... if I upgrade to X2, my Athlon 64 3800+ will need a new home ;)

[07:57:26] <kad77> any problems there? AMD64 3700+, dual channel DDR400 1GB

[07:57:47] <meianoite> why isn't Portuguese the most popular language in the world? we pioneered world exploring, for chrissake ;)

[07:57:51] <kad77> umc: those x2s are going fast

[07:58:35] <kad77> actually, I belive X2 processors do not support virtualization .. beware

[07:58:35] * meianoite nods at _hugo

[07:58:47] <meianoite> kad77 X2 processors ARE the one supporting virtualization

[07:58:53] <kad77> I rember reading that this week, and decided against buying one

[07:58:54] <meianoite> the AM2 X2, at least, do

[07:59:03] <meianoite> not the 939 ones

[07:59:03] <geist> oh? it has pacifica?

[07:59:11] <kad77> yeah, AM2 ... the 939s are the ones on sale

[07:59:15] <meianoite> geist Y E A H .

[07:59:18] <geist> i didn't know that. I have a am2 5000

[07:59:19] <umccullough> AM2 here

[07:59:25] <meianoite> dude! you got pacifica.

[07:59:32] <meianoite> and didn't even know it!

[07:59:39] <geist> dude, i am for teh win

[07:59:41] <kad77> of, i have a 939 single core, that supports virtualization AFAIK

[07:59:47] <kad77> runs vmware just fine

[07:59:56] <meianoite> teh gaming s00x =P

[08:00:10] <meianoite> btw geist, it happens to run hacked OS X pretty well, too.

[08:00:11] <geist> kad77: doesn't have hardware virt though

[08:00:20] <kad77> crapbags

[08:00:41] <umccullough> i have a PIII 600 that runs vmware ;)

[08:01:16] * umccullough checks prices on X2s

[08:01:19] <meianoite> I can't remember if I managed to run VMWare on my P133 box

[08:01:33] <geist> frankly if you're getting a new machine, get a core 2

[08:01:39] <kad77> oh well, I'll wait another two years until quad core is ubiquitous

[08:01:40] <geist> they're cheaper and really damn fast

[08:01:43] <umccullough> my Via C3 won't run vmware

[08:01:48] <umccullough> "unsupported processor"

[08:01:59] <geist> d'awww

[08:02:08] <geist> poor little guy

[08:02:09] <meianoite> I mean old school vmware, first couple of releases

[08:02:11] <geist> can't run nuthin

[08:02:14] <umccullough> ;)

[08:02:19] <umccullough> can't even playback a DVD :P

[08:02:51] <meianoite> I really don't know whether VIAs can be kept so cool because they just don't run most stuff and spend ALL the time on the idle thread ;)))

[08:03:07] <kad77> amd is kinda floundering ATM, I want to see where things end up

[08:03:10] <umccullough> the newer ones aren't so bad

[08:03:33] <umccullough> i'm considering investing in AMD stock since it's so cheap actually

[08:04:04] <kad77> well, with intel getting into GPGPUs, it will get cheaper :D

[08:04:33] <kad77> ati always sucked, and they haven't moved that ball forward one yard

[08:05:03] <Grackle> Heh, I have had nothing but trouble with my pos via C3 mini itx.

[08:05:06] <meianoite> I always have an eye on Apple stock

[08:05:20] <geist> ati did a fantastic job with the xenon's GPU

[08:05:21] <kad77> yep

[08:05:22] <meianoite> and I hope I'll manage to invest some before the iPhone is out

[08:05:27] <geist> maybe that's where they put all their time a few years back

[08:05:32] <kad77> yep towards apple

[08:05:39] <Grackle> It's the loudest and slowest machine I own, the unichrome graphics device is retarded, it's slow as hell for a 1.2GHz machine, ...

[08:06:09] <meianoite> their stock will become ridiculously expensive after the iPhone is out

[08:06:16] <meianoite> as expensive as Google's, I predict

[08:06:21] <kad77> dunno, they probably should integrate something with the cpu

[08:06:38] <kad77> the DRM rumors re: ati/amd aren't too promising

[08:06:44] <Grackle> Apple sold their 100 millionth ipod recently. That's just mind-blowing, especially considering how much those things cost.

[08:07:39] <meianoite> a large fraction of those are old gen iPods

[08:07:57] <meianoite> plenty of those people will crave for some iPhone lovin'

[08:07:59] <umccullough> Grackle, my 800mhz via c3 is slower than my PII350

[08:08:00] <Grackle> Which were even more expensive than the newer ones.

[08:08:12] <Grackle> Yup umccullough, that sounds right.

[08:08:29] <meianoite> what people seem not to get is that the whole Cingular thing is just Apple's pilot program

[08:08:35] <kad77> ATI/AMD is supposedly pondering locking users out of accelerated framebuffer, governed by drm in hardware

[08:08:35] <meianoite> world domination is next ;)

[08:08:35] <geist> sounds like a grat box to test haiku on

[08:08:51] <kad77> anything is better than my treo 700p

[08:08:52] <Grackle> The VIA C3 is a good lesson in the megahertz myth.

[08:08:56] <geist> meianoite: you know I worked on the iphone right?

[08:09:03] <meianoite> had *no* idea

[08:09:04] <geist> I only recently quit apple in january

[08:09:16] <meianoite> the only luminaire I know from the iPhone team is the LLVM guy

[08:09:21] <Grackle> Whee, what did you do on the iphone?

[08:09:28] <geist> LLVM?

[08:09:31] <umccullough> Grackle, ...maybe the OS ;)

[08:09:34] <Grackle> And why did you quit, if you don't my me asking?

[08:09:43] <meianoite> yeah, what's his name again?

[08:09:43] <Grackle> s/my //

[08:09:46] <meianoite> Chris Lattner

[08:09:53] <geist> what does LLVM mean?

[08:10:05] <meianoite> it's the compiler

[08:10:10] <meianoite> low-level virtual machine

[08:10:15] <meianoite> compiler foundation I mean

[08:10:17] <geist> ummm

[08:10:32] <geist> the gcc guys I guess

[08:10:38] <meianoite> he did contribute back BIG arm stuff on apple's behalf

[08:11:05] <meianoite> his code is MIT licensed, and Apple hired him

[08:11:14] <meianoite> so they didn't really have to give anything back

[08:11:16] <meianoite> but they did

[08:11:31] <meianoite> hence my suspicion that they eventually WILL open up the platform for 3rd party apps

[08:11:31] <geist> i didn't think that stuff was very arm specific

[08:11:39] <geist> i thought it was just more standard gcc stuff

[08:11:46] <meianoite> geist THAT stuff I'm talking about was very ARM specific

[08:11:55] <meianoite> it was the very ARM backend, actually

[08:12:22] <meianoite> let me see if I can locate the email

[08:12:27] <kad77> apple's developer connection will not support resume on downloads ... stunning

[08:12:34] <geist> well, i know far too much about that stuff that I really can't talk about

[08:12:39] <geist> so lets just move on

[08:13:04] <kad77> yes: AMD and DRM -- debate! ;)

[08:13:06] <meianoite> http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvmdev/2007-January/007813.html

[08:13:07] <meianoite> that email.

[08:13:32] <Grackle> DRM vs the republican party. Discuss.

[08:13:41] <meianoite> "vs"?

[08:13:50] <Grackle> Yes. :P

[08:13:53] <meianoite> they're more like kissing cousings ;)

[08:14:00] <kad77> some people belive in less regulation, strangely

[08:15:53] <kad77> geist: any future with POWER6 and PA Semiconductor doing consumer chips wyou think? or is it all Core/broadband engine ... (do you have any idea?)

[08:16:10] <geist> i have no idea whatsoever

[08:16:16] <geist> depends on what you mean by 'consumer chips'

[08:17:00] <kad77> non-mainframe, non-gaming console, maybe for use in something beyond routers and switches

[08:17:25] <kad77> like a lowerpower laptop or mini-board with newer revision cores

[08:17:45] <geist> sounds to me you mean 'desktop'

[08:17:48] <geist> in which case, no

[08:17:51] <kad77> I guess PA semi is producing some 5w or less PPC chips now

[08:17:58] <geist> x86 owns that and will for the forseeable future

[08:18:41] <kad77> i don't disagree.. but I competition is falling

[08:19:04] <kad77> AMD is floundering, not other broad market chip ... everything is embedded

[08:19:23] <meianoite> AMD is hardly floundering

[08:19:32] <geist> yeah

[08:19:41] <meianoite> they ARE burning cash, though

[08:19:46] <kad77> They aren't doing well on 45nm

[08:19:47] <geist> the two have traded positions tons of times. same with ati/nvidia, etc

[08:20:03] <meianoite> AMD ain't no foundry

[08:20:06] <umccullough> yeah, intel can't let AMD die actually

[08:20:08] <geist> the best thing that happened to the business was having competition, so as loing as they're still around

[08:20:09] <kad77> they aren't close to the new metal etchign process

[08:20:10] <meianoite> they use IBM fabs

[08:21:05] <kad77> well, IBM is closing the gap on the new transistor tech .. they might license it

[08:21:39] <meianoite> that work on proximity stuff is very interesting, indeed

[08:21:50] <kad77> its just been a situation where buying the core 2 duo have been a better choice for a year now

[08:21:56] <meianoite> I hope they eventually manage to sandwith CPU|RAM|GPU

[08:22:01] <kad77> cahce, heat, overclocking, etc, etc

[08:22:22] <meianoite> but that will require some serious, serious work on thermal solutions

[08:22:49] <kad77> cache on AMD is pathetic... you need to buy an opteron to get even low end (e6300) core2 sizes

[08:23:06] <meianoite> kad77 I read about that as well. the E6300 overclocks like there's no tomorrow

[08:23:14] <geist> athlons have large L1 caches

[08:23:15] <geist> always have

[08:23:34] <kad77> sure, but you may as well get a 6600 and double the cache for $60

[08:23:44] <geist> L1 cache is really really nice

[08:24:00] <meianoite> modern CPUs are so weird. they're von Neumann, but the way L1 is organized makes them resemble Harvard

[08:24:09] <kad77> 64+64 or is it 128+128?

[08:24:15] <geist> 64+64

[08:24:31] <geist> and they have for a long time. even the athlon xps were 64/64 IIRC

[08:24:32] <kad77> yeah, i think core2 may be only 32+32

[08:24:44] <geist> sanpile.org will answer that

[08:24:53] <gravy> Why did I burn beosmax for AMD for my intel laptop?!

[08:25:04] <gravy> no wonder it doesn't work :(

[08:25:11] <umccullough> actually it should work

[08:25:17] <umccullough> just not as fast ;)

[08:25:36] <geist> yup, all the K7s were 64/64 as well

[08:25:37] <gravy> depends how he patches the kernel?

[08:25:59] <umccullough> should be the same patch everyone uses

[08:26:17] <geist> you also gotta remember the core 2s have a shared L2, wereas the athlon x2s have seperate ones

[08:26:24] <umccullough> gravy, i believe it disables SSE2

[08:26:25] <geist> you probably want the seperate caches

[08:26:26] <gravy> writing in AuthenticAMD stops it from booting on Intel in my experience

[08:26:33] <umccullough> oh?

[08:26:46] <gravy> anyway I'll try another disc and see if it works

[08:26:54] <gravy> maybe there are other problems

[08:27:25] <kad77> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opteron

[08:27:58] <umccullough> geist, i thought all the X2s are 128+128 L1

[08:28:04] <kad77> wow, the Quad-core Budapest is behind last years core2's in cache, and its slated for next year

[08:28:13] <geist> umccullough: absolutely

[08:28:29] <geist> the X2s are for all practical purposes two seperate cpus

[08:28:38] <geist> the core 2s are, except for the shared L2

[08:28:45] <geist> all of them have independent L1s

[08:28:45] <kad77> yeah, (64+64)*2

[08:29:23] <umccullough> I SEE

[08:29:25] <umccullough> oops

[08:29:28] <umccullough> damn caps

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[08:29:55] <kad77> upcoming 65nm Quadcore Opteron (Budapest):

[08:29:56] <kad77> # L1-Cache: 64 + 64 KiB (Data + Instructions) per core

[08:29:58] <kad77> # L2-Cache: 512 KiB, fullspeed per core

[08:30:00] <kad77> # L3-Cache: 2048 KiB, shared

[08:30:02] <kad77> *yawn* no thanks

[08:30:50] <geist> hmm, the core2s did get a much nicer L1 however

[08:30:58] <geist> 8 way versus athlon's 2 way L1s

[08:31:07] <meianoite> kad77 size is not all that matters

[08:31:18] <meianoite> but beware, when women tell you that, they're LYING.

[08:31:32] <meianoite> ;)

[08:31:43] <kad77> Actually, you run into most of your speed degredation when memory is called out of cache, AFAIK

[08:32:13] <geist> absolutely

[08:32:20] <kad77> droping from ~20gb/s to at best a 1/3 of that, plus latency

[08:32:21] <geist> anyway, dont get me wrong, I'm a huge athlon fan

[08:32:31] <geist> but the new cores are pretty damn fast

[08:32:40] <meianoite> when they're forsake genital size, they're eyeing bank accounts, cars... ;)

[08:32:58] <geist> my macbookpro (core 2, 2.33) pretty much beats my athlon xp 5000 for a lot of stuff

[08:33:10] <geist> though i haven't run really comprehensive benchmarks on it

[08:33:16] <kad77> i wouldn't doubt it

[08:33:41] <geist> and that's with a much slower memory buss

[08:33:47] <kad77> either way, I'll wait until I find a reason to replace my machine ... have a car to build :D

[08:34:08] <umccullough> i can give you a reason ;)

[08:34:13] <geist> yeah, computers are so damn fast nowadays.

[08:34:32] <geist> you have to be doing some heavy graphics or games to really need it that much

[08:34:41] <gravy> umccullough: Beosmax worked fine with the intel burn

[08:34:42] <kad77> yeah, my AMD3700 (38?) with dual channel DDR400 outperforms a 3ghz(oc) core2 6400 with DDR-667

[08:34:45] <umccullough> or... um... other heavy processing

[08:34:51] <kad77> in memory tests .. by about double

[08:34:59] <umccullough> gravy, good to know

[08:35:15] <geist> that seems wrong

[08:35:22] <meianoite> is that C2D dual channel as well?

[08:35:25] <meianoite> pair of DIMMs?

[08:35:30] <umccullough> my AM2 board supports DDR2-800

[08:35:30] <kad77> compiling the sourcetree would be a good reason to have a fast multi-core machine

[08:35:33] <meianoite> on discrete controllers?

[08:36:03] <kad77> I get ~6 gb a second on the AMD

[08:36:13] <geist> yeah, my experience with trying to write super fast memcpy was that you could get more bandwidth out of the core 2 than my athlon

[08:36:16] <meianoite> RAM positioning makes QUITE a difference on P4 boards, at least

[08:36:17] <geist> though not by much

[08:36:35] <kad77> I tested the OC'd core2 with 4gb of dual channel and it could only achieve ~3.5gb .. probably the external memory controller?

[08:36:48] <geist> sounds like it

[08:36:50] <meianoite> and it doesn't matter if the DIMMs are the same size

[08:36:58] <geist> they should be pretty close really

[08:37:05] <kad77> both machines had matched pairs of memory

[08:37:28] <kad77> decnt brands, OCZ, corsair, that type of stuff

[08:37:28] <meianoite> try messing with the DIMMs

[08:37:28] <meianoite> you'd be surprised.

[08:37:43] <meianoite> unless there's not where the problem lies in the 1st place :)

[08:37:56] <kad77> dunno, the core2 isn't my machine... i was surprised it wasn't faster .. but I can't mess with it

[08:38:04] <meianoite> bummer

[08:38:17] <kad77> this was all memtest86+ 1.70 .. so I dunno

[08:38:43] <meianoite> memtest86, precisely

[08:39:00] <meianoite> my boss' workstation had messed up RAM

[08:39:06] <meianoite> he asked joe sixpack to check it

[08:39:20] <meianoite> not only he didn't fasten the DIMMS correctly

[08:39:25] <meianoite> but they were misplaced

[08:39:44] <meianoite> as soon as I moved a DIMM to the other controlled, bandwidth doubled

[08:39:49] <meianoite> (as reported by memtest86)

[08:40:05] <meianoite> AND it stopped crashing randomly :)

[08:40:21] <meianoite> but that was due to not fastening it.

[08:40:54] <meianoite> couldn't manage to save his data, though

[08:41:03] <kad77> yeah, this machine was setup.. my cousin built it (his first) and I deconstucted and reassembled it for him. we found that one pair of DDR2 dimms were faulty, and replaced them, but with any configuration in bios (set timings to spec, etc) could not get what I thought should be correct speed

[08:41:04] <meianoite> Linux trashed the good data with corrupted one

[08:41:07] <kad77> nforce 680i I believe

[08:41:39] <meianoite> there's been a number of reports regarding the 6xx series similar to yours

[08:41:48] <meianoite> they're THAT tricky to configure correctly

[08:42:16] <umccullough> bedtime, 'night

[08:42:16] <meianoite> which kind of sucks... because Intel chipsets aren't as rich

[08:42:30] *** umccullough has left #haiku

[08:42:30] <kad77> yeah, i'll wait until I go down by him again.. he upgraded from a K7 slow something, so he's happy enough ATM :D

[08:43:20] <meianoite> googling for "beos am2 nforce 590". ZERO useful results

[08:43:26] <kad77> haha

[08:43:31] <meianoite> out of 145 total =P

[08:44:11] <meianoite> looks like SATA is actually the least of my concerns and I was bugging Marcus for no good reason =PP

[08:44:48] <kad77> meia: would you peg R1 sometime aorung Fall '08 if you had to guess?

[08:48:00] <meianoite> depends on what you'd consider R1

[08:48:21] <meianoite> if it's supposed to support the SAME set of hardware than R5, that timeframe is a possibility

[08:48:38] <meianoite> support for hardware such as mine may take longer

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[08:49:41] <kad77> frankly, I could care less about hardware support until the core system is working flawlessly in QEMU

[08:50:05] <kad77> drivers will be an endless battles, further complicated by GPL/MIT issues

[08:50:19] <meianoite> QEMU has issues of it's own :)

[08:50:29] <kad77> sure sure, vmware something

[08:50:38] * meianoite subscribes to the QEMU mailing list

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[08:50:59] <kad77> QEMU is less bothersome than a whole variety of chipset and driver issues

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[08:52:38] <meianoite> QEMU is frankenstein ;)

[08:52:55] <meianoite> it emulates a hardware combination that NEVER really existed

[08:52:56] <meianoite> EVER

[08:53:31] <meianoite> jesus, it supports SSE2-level processor on a PIIX 3!!

[08:53:36] <meianoite> only recently PIIX 4

[08:53:42] <kad77> http://endian.net/roadmap.aspx?MapNo=2

[08:53:44] <meianoite> and they never sorted out DMA support

[08:53:48] <kad77> waiting for 2008

[08:54:00] <kad77> DMA lacking? crap

[08:54:41] <meianoite> I believe Windows is the only OS managed to fool well enough to enable DMA

[08:54:55] <meianoite> *they managed to

[08:55:41] <kad77> how actively is QEMU developed?

[08:55:55] <meianoite> VERY.

[08:56:00] <kad77> great

[08:56:14] <kad77> does it support EFI?

[08:56:15] <meianoite> in the last 3 months Fabrice gave CVS access to 3 or 4 more people

[08:56:19] <meianoite> not yet.

[08:56:32] <kad77> that will be neat

[08:56:37] <meianoite> Paul Brook does ARM stuff

[08:56:42] <meianoite> Jocelyn Meyer does PPC

[08:56:51] <meianoite> Thiemo Seufer does MIPS

[08:57:00] <kad77> if EFI wasn't an intel only standard, I would love to see BIOS die die die die die

[08:57:01] <meianoite> Blue Swirl (that's a handle) does SPARC

[08:57:29] <meianoite> Fabrice himself and some other people do x86

[08:57:42] <kad77> interesting

[08:57:47] <meianoite> and several people submit a number of patches on a daily basis

[08:58:36] <kad77> at any rate, I think haiku could get to full OS functionality is the drivers were a secondary or tertiary importance

[08:58:41] <kad77> build it and they will come, etc

[08:58:51] <kad77> is --> if

[08:58:55] <meianoite> Pau also did an unreleased 68k (Dragonball, I guess) emulation core

[08:59:09] <meianoite> but he can't integrate it as of yet, because he based it on his custom code generator

[08:59:16] <kad77> the MUSASHI core is the most complete

[08:59:17] <meianoite> not the GCC backend QEMU uses

[08:59:48] <kad77> MUSASHI == mame's 68000 of some years

[09:00:02] <kad77> it only has a couple errors that are still open

[09:00:17] <kad77> but they are know. :D

[09:00:22] <meianoite> IIRC MAME has 3 different 68k cores

[09:00:23] <kad77> known

[09:00:28] <meianoite> ASM, C and dynarec

[09:00:44] <kad77> the strait C core is what I'm talking about

[09:00:59] <meianoite> k...

[09:01:06] * kad77 added the first accurate cycle timed 68k core to MAME in 1998

[09:01:07] <meianoite> ISA emulation is trivial enough

[09:01:13] <meianoite> the quirks SUCK, though

[09:01:44] <kad77> well, emu is a good testbed.

[09:02:00] <meianoite> btw

[09:02:02] <kad77> I wish I had the cash to just hire ateam sometimes, and get this going

[09:02:14] <meianoite> MAME in Portuguese has the same meaning of SUCK ;)

[09:02:25] <kad77> heh, MESS

[09:02:49] <meianoite> we once reported on the BeOS port of MAME on our BUG-BR page and provided an English version automatically translated by Babelfish

[09:03:00] <kad77> haha

[09:03:05] <meianoite> it was pretty amusing to see what BF did

[09:03:18] <kad77> i can imagine

[09:03:53] <kad77> I think Haiku should move to a .hu domain, and prceed like MPlayer

[09:03:54] <meianoite> btw, it's "suck" as in pacifier, breast, lollypop

[09:03:58] <meianoite> not... "stinks"

[09:03:59] <meianoite> :)

[09:04:16] <meianoite> .hu is hungary, no?

[09:04:21] <meianoite> what's special about that?

[09:04:29] <kad77> just use the best tech, simply ingore BS software "nonpatents", etc

[09:04:30] <kad77> :D

[09:04:50] <kad77> would be fun just to do the best of what people know, and disregard artifical limits

[09:05:22] <meianoite> that's not better than uploading the leaked BeOS code to Sealand servers and let people fest

[09:05:23] <kad77> i'm not being serious, of course, but its late, and would be interesting to see the reaction

[09:05:44] <kad77> well, i didn't say steal anything

[09:06:10] <meianoite> when you talk about IP, that's what I get from "disregard artifical limits"

[09:06:15] <kad77> Just implement ideas, and if someone tries to claim they invented that first (PAY ME!) just continue on anyway

[09:06:16] <kad77> :_)

[09:06:18] <meianoite> it's still copyright and IP

[09:06:27] <kad77> at least 2-3billion people would use it :D

[09:06:31] <meianoite> even though it sucks.

[09:06:40] <kad77> not copyright at all, just IP arguments

[09:06:47] <kad77> like one-click patents, etc

[09:06:54] <meianoite> I've probably written my share of software that was covered by some random patent

[09:07:13] <kad77> most are BS, derived from a 150 year old system manned by monkeys on  typewriters

[09:07:33] <meianoite> hell, unknowingly so, I reinvented quicksort, skip lists, and a handful of other essential algorithms and data structures

[09:07:42] <meianoite> I'm just glad most of them weren't patented

[09:07:55] <kad77> I'm not saying do it, it would be a scarlet letter, but it would be a fun public exercise to move the ball forward way beyond other companies .. like a protest

[09:08:53] <meianoite> well.. yeah... but be careful not to step on the landmines

[09:09:06] <kad77> anyways, I needed an archaic patent system rant... we all have to live with it ... :/

[09:09:17] <meianoite> still, the most talented programmers come from developed countries

[09:09:37] <meianoite> precisely those countries with the heaviest legal measures regarding IP and copyright

[09:09:39] <kad77> If I was Shuttleworth, I'd do some interesting things . :D

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[09:10:32] <meianoite> please mind I'm only talking about proportions here

[09:10:41] *** mazon is now known as Mazon

[09:10:44] <meianoite> mine ain't a developed country

[09:10:54] <meianoite> and... well, I do have my share of talent :)

[09:10:55] <kad77> it'll change

[09:11:04] <kad77> ireland has been moving pretty fast

[09:11:13] <kad77> well, anyway, I'm beat..

[09:11:20] <meianoite> Ireland is indeed a place I'd love to know

[09:11:21] <kad77> fun chatting, but I need to pass out. :D

[09:11:25] <meianoite> *visit

[09:11:34] <kad77> we'll talk about it sometime

[09:11:37] <kad77> I'm a dual US/irish citizen

[09:11:37] <meianoite> 4h10 am here.

[09:11:52] <kad77> 2:10 here, but a week of 5hour nights :D

[09:12:14] <meianoite> I already blew the threshold where I can actually think in English

[09:12:26] <meianoite> so now I'm resorting to literal translations :)

[09:12:27] <meianoite> =P

[09:12:32] <kad77> hehehe

[09:12:57] <kad77> well, you're second langauge skills rival my first language :D

[09:13:00] <meianoite> pretty sad, I know

[09:13:09] <meianoite> w00t :)

[09:13:09] <kad77> your*

[09:13:14] <meianoite> I didn't see that coming

[09:13:52] <kad77> well, good night, keep on pursuing your kernel scheduler .. I think you have class ideas

[09:14:01] <meianoite> now, I dare us to talk in Portuguese

[09:14:04] *** kad77 is now known as kad77|zzz

[09:14:15] <kad77|zzz> haha, not a chance

[09:14:38] <kad77|zzz> I got kicked out of foreign lanauge classes, then went into engineering where it didn't matter!

[09:14:53] <meianoite> hey, Portugal has a long history of trading with England

[09:15:19] <kad77|zzz> sure, I don't doubt that. I'm second langauge imparied

[09:15:23] <meianoite> and also consider the sheer number of Brazilians living in the U.S.

[09:15:47] <kad77|zzz> I only wanted to learn Japanese, but couldn't master french or spanish, even passably

[09:15:58] <meianoite> it still amuses me how English speakers seem consider Portuguese to be Spanish with a Russian accent ;)

[09:16:16] <meianoite> see? there goes grammar.

[09:16:35] <kad77|zzz> well, you only forgot a 'to'

[09:17:35] <meianoite> geist's self loathing contaminated me

[09:17:36] <meianoite> heh

[09:17:56] <kad77|zzz> well, i'm gonna leave this channel logging... try and get sleep before the sun comes up!

[09:18:00] <kad77|zzz> bye

[09:18:02] <meianoite> the difference is he IS that good but too

[09:18:15] <meianoite> modest to admit

[09:18:26] <meianoite> g'nite

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[11:14:35] <emitrax> good morning

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[11:29:42] <emitrax> is Waldemar around ?

[11:29:54] <emitrax> or any other devs?

[11:30:37] <emitrax> I need to tell my prof, what's innovative about Haiku as a Desktop OS, but I don't think I'm the right person for that

[11:33:34] <Ingenu> innovative ?

[11:33:47] <Ingenu> simple, fast, efficient, user friendly

[11:34:03] <Ingenu> that's not really innovative, but there are no other OS like that out there (beside maybe MacOSX)

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[11:36:18] <Ingenu> client/server tech

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[12:33:14] * kr1stof is listening to Beneath The Rubble by Frontline Assembly from Artificial Soldier Position: 00:55/06:26 Bitrate: 192kbps Rating: [✩✩✩✩✩]

[12:33:28] <kr1stof> Hi Begasus

[12:33:33] <kr1stof> :-)

[12:33:57] <Begasus> hi kr1stof ;)

[12:34:04] <surrounder> heya Begasus

[12:34:14] <kr1stof> Beautiful weather here

[12:34:32] <Begasus> hoi surrounder ;)

[12:34:39] <kr1stof> We'll go biking in about an hour

[12:34:43] <Begasus> to warm for the time of year ...

[12:34:57] <Begasus> but pretty nice to go out for a drink ;)

[12:35:18] <kr1stof> through the wineyards :-)

[12:35:34] <kr1stof> Current weather for Wiesbaden (GM): Fair Temp: 71 F/22 C Feels Like: 71 F/22 C Wind: 10 mph/16,1 km

[12:36:23] <surrounder> hehe definitly

[12:36:26] <Begasus> up to 27 they say here ....

[12:36:50] <surrounder> Zonnig en op de meeste plaatsen met 26 graden zomers  warm

[12:36:55] <surrounder> ... eek

[12:38:14] <Begasus> hehe

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[13:01:13] <leszek_> hi

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[13:04:34] <_konrad> Hello _stippi_

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[13:05:45] <Begasus> hya folks

[13:06:38] <_stippi_> hi all

[13:09:02] <korli> hey _stippi_

[13:09:37] <leszek_> hmm.. is Icon-O-Matic broken ? It doesn't start here in a virtual box anymore

[13:13:56] <_stippi_> leszek_: oh, really? I have not tried it on Haiku for a while...

[13:13:57] <_stippi_> let me check

[13:14:26] <_stippi_> nope, works like it is supposed to. Fresh build (I'm in it)

[13:14:31] <leszek_> it comes up with a few lines of bwindow creation thinks and nothing else happens

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[13:14:38] <mmu_man> plop

[13:14:39] <_stippi_> huh?

[13:14:42] <_stippi_> hi mmu_man

[13:15:09] <_stippi_> leszek_: You mean it crashes? Or are you discribing visuals?

[13:15:24] <leszek_> it semms not to crash

[13:15:42] <leszek_> it is in fact running but no visuals no windows or something is shown on the display

[13:15:49] <Begasus> plop

[13:16:12] <_stippi_> I'm running it right now

[13:16:42] <_stippi_> leszek_: Have you just double clicked its icon to launch it?

[13:16:55] <leszek_> hmm... it is very strange _stippi_because it runs also perfectly on my hd install, but it does not seem to work in the virtual box

[13:17:11] <leszek_> _stippi_: no I also startedit from the terminal

[13:17:12] <_stippi_> that's strange indeed.

[13:17:38] <_stippi_> well, I cannot test in the virtual box

[13:17:48] <_stippi_> I have a very weak machine...

[13:17:57] <_stippi_> Linux is a real pain to run it

[13:18:04] <leszek_> it is calling BtwoDimensionalLayout but thats the only output i get from it

[13:18:12] <leszek_> :)

[13:18:19] <_stippi_> plus I messed up my Ubuntu install and it doesn't let me chose anything but 640x480.

[13:18:21] <leszek_> yeah _stippi_ try DSL ;)

[13:18:51] <leszek_> _stippi_: aha yeah reconfigure ubuntu with dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg might help

[13:18:58] <_stippi_> which DSL do you mean, I have the feeling it is not the internet connection type?

[13:19:11] <_stippi_> thanks, I will try that

[13:19:13] <leszek_> Damn Small Linux, very fast

[13:19:18] <_stippi_> ah

[13:19:19] <_stippi_> ok

[13:19:40] <_stippi_> leszek_: can you keep typing a few lines, I need to check some app_server bug

[13:19:56] <leszek_> k :)

[13:19:57] <leszek_> sure

[13:20:06] <_stippi_> keep going

[13:20:11] <leszek_> :D

[13:20:16] <leszek_> 1234567890

[13:20:19] <leszek_> qwertzuiop

[13:20:22] <leszek_> asdfghjklöä

[13:20:25] <leszek_> yxcvbnm,.-

[13:20:26] <_stippi_> cool, I seem to have fixed it

[13:20:37] <leszek_> qaywsxedcrfvtgbzhnujmik,ol.pö-üä+#

[13:20:42] <leszek_> :D

[13:20:43] <leszek_> cool

[13:21:02] <_stippi_> before, scrolling in Visision in "hidden" channels would cause the currently visible channel to be scrolled for no reason

[13:21:18] <leszek_> aha

[13:21:27] <_stippi_> not anymore, but I cannot commit yet... to many changes at once

[13:21:47] <leszek_> ;)

[13:21:54] <_stippi_> alright... need to go soon

[13:22:08] <_stippi_> brushing teeth first

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[13:27:57] <_stippi_> ciao

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[14:16:09] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> err.. should i be using i686-pc-linux-gnu ? when compiling from Linux ?

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[14:18:57] <stargater> hi

[14:19:09] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> stargater ,hello

[14:19:22] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> oh weell.. i'll just recompile gcc then ..

[14:19:40] <stargater> hi GreyGhost-Ubuntu , and who are you?

[14:20:16] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> stargater , a n00b who found Haiku some time ago :)

[14:20:53] <stargater> :-)

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[14:27:56] <dr_evil> mmu_man there is some good news at http://haiku-os.org/

[14:28:04] <mmu_man> yes, saw that :)

[14:28:42] <mmu_man> that's going to be SATAnic

[14:28:43] <dr_evil> finally able to make that public :-)

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[14:29:12] <stargater> GreyGhost-Ubuntu: who = how

[14:29:21] <stargater> lol

[14:29:46] * stargater give dr_evil 100 starpoints

[14:30:43] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> stargater , pretty well indeed :)

[14:31:40] <stargater> :-)

[14:32:36] <dr_evil> I hope that AHCI and some other SATA drivers will be useable in 2 or 3 month

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[14:33:42] <gravy> dr_evil: have you already begun working with them (JMicron)?

[14:33:48] <stargater> cu alter

[14:34:28] <dr_evil> gravy we are in contact by mail, and they are sending me some stuff now

[14:35:23] <dr_evil> I already started working on AHCI in january, but had some other work to finish first (not haiku related)

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[14:37:00] <gravy> Does sata have others apart from AHCI? like USB...

[14:38:00] <dr_evil> AHCI is the new standard used by current intel, via, jmicron and a few others, there are some older vendor specific implementations, too

[14:38:39] <dr_evil> SATA = serial-ATA, it's not realated to USB or firewire

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[14:40:10] <gravy> yes, but I wondered if there were multiple standards like USB has OHCI, UHCI etc

[14:40:54] <gravy> so lots of hardware support will come out of this work then

[14:42:12] <kad77|zzz> haiku should just focus on hardware from 2005 and later

[14:42:18] <dr_evil> well, at least the future should be bright

[14:42:21] <kad77|zzz> IMO

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[14:43:06] <kad77> anyone know of an open source ftp client/server in C for windows

[14:43:51] <dr_evil> I'll focus on AHCI first, then I plan on finishing Silicon Image support (basically works, needs some more debugging), then I'll add Promise (have one controller here), and probably NVIDIA

[14:44:41] <dr_evil> I'll ignore all the others, thats a 3rd party opportunity. btw, the linux page has a list of what hardware is out there http://linux-ata.org/driver-status.html

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[14:46:44] <Lelldorin1> re

[14:46:59] <TTRanger> dr_evil gray I'm "tuning in late" on this conversation...what's the subject?  Does this have to do with some driver support coming out of the summer of code, or ... ?

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[14:48:33] <dr_evil> irc is soo weak

[14:48:35] <dr_evil> TTRanger see query

[14:48:52] <TTRanger> thanks much

[14:48:59] * TTRanger likes the way pasting works in BeShare  :-)

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[14:54:38] <korli> tic are you here ?

[14:55:39] <dr_evil> bbl

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[15:07:47] <mmu_man> wonder if the usb stack could get my webcam to work now

[15:07:53] <mmu_man> brb

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[15:08:12] <MauriceK> mmu_man, is asynchronous already working?

[15:08:20] <mmu_man> do'nt think so

[15:08:23] <mmu_man> it's not required

[15:08:31] <mmu_man> it's one of a few that has a bulk endpoint

[15:08:32] <MauriceK> ah you still use bulk mode?

[15:08:40] <mmu_man> (that's why it's the only one I got workingin zeta :)

[15:08:45] <MauriceK> hihi

[15:08:52] <MauriceK> you cheater :P

[15:08:54] <mmu_man> but still last time I tried in Haiku it wasn't even seen

[15:09:04] <mmu_man> suppose my controller wasn't recognized

[15:09:15] <mmu_man> MauriceK no, just using what's available

[15:09:28] <mmu_man> which is funny as it's really a 3Euro model I bought in Paris once

[15:09:33] <mmu_man> rue Mongalet :)

[15:11:03] <MauriceK> hehe

[15:11:08] <mmu_man> brb

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[15:35:40] <CIA-17> korli * r20682 /haiku/trunk/src/kits/game/ (6 files):

[15:35:40] <CIA-17> update license headers, code style

[15:35:40] <CIA-17> In BPushGameSound, SetParameter and SetStreamHook return B_UNSUPPORTED while Perform calls the parent class.

[15:35:40] <CIA-17> Moved code to the constructor.

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[15:46:03] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> whats that command under linux to generate an iso ?

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[16:07:29] <emitrax_> GreyGhost-Ubuntu: mkisofs?

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[16:09:28] <SiCuTDeUx> Morning!

[16:09:49] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> emitrax_ ,thanks i figured it out :)

[16:10:12] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> but does anyone know how do i saely use dd to increase the vmdk size now ?

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[16:13:51] <[Beta]> any op (mmu, geist) fancy adding +t ?

[16:16:11] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> no one knows howto use dd to increase vmdk size ?

[16:16:28] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> emitrax__  ,btw.. i did say thanks.. i suppose u were disconnected ..

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[16:19:44] <mmu_man> +t ?

[16:19:57] <[Beta]> topic protection

[16:20:12] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> any one with dd experience ?

[16:20:19] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> or anyway to increaase vmdk size ?

[16:20:35] *** mmu_man sets mode: +t

[16:20:38] <[Beta]> its mostly pointless with ChanServ watching, but *shrug*

[16:20:42] <[Beta]> ty

[16:20:46] <mmu_man> why isn't it the case anyway ??

[16:20:59] <[Beta]> I dont know what happened.

[16:21:18] <[Beta]> mmu_man, for the many reasons IRC has flaws, they didnt think about it enough :p

[16:21:59] <mmu_man> as with many protocols, it wasn't meant with security in mind because at that time everyone was at univ and was trusted.

[16:22:16] <mmu_man> "it was so much better at that time..."

[16:22:18] <mmu_man> :)

[16:25:28] <tqh> Yes, you guys are not to be trusted :)

[16:25:46] <kad77> mmu_man : what is the GCC warning count when building the main haiku repository? under GCC4?

[16:26:06] <kad77> any way of logging and greppign that into severities?

[16:26:18] <mmu_man> dunno

[16:26:48] <kad77> I'm concerned that not fixing as many of these now will lead to unintended side effects

[16:28:59] <tqh> warnings leads to errors, errors leads to suffering, suffering leads to anger :)

[16:29:20] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> no one on dd to increase vmdk size ?

[16:29:30] <kad77> exactly

[16:29:33] <kad77> I haven't built recently, but I imagine the warnings are in the hundreds

[16:31:02] <kad77> well, anyway, I'll bring it up when some more devs are around

[16:31:12] <mmu_man> anger leads to hate

[16:31:18] <mmu_man> hate leads to Microsoft

[16:31:27] <kad77> if not, I'll compile and categorize and post the findings to the openlist

[16:31:38] <kad77> maybe that will spur some action

[16:32:15] <tqh> better fix them then

[16:32:34] <kad77> hehe, we'll see how long the list is first

[16:32:58] <kad77> has anyone tried compiling tree under gcc 4.1.2?

[16:34:09] <kad77> I'm targeting the 4.1 stable branch, don't care about the legacy stuff as much

[16:34:41] <tqh> offtopic, anyone tried BeOS / Haiku on a Macbook successfully?

[16:35:26] * tqh is thinking of getting one

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[16:40:28] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> does the haiku installer really work ?

[16:42:36] <Yez> does anyone have a build of the Intel Pro 1000 nic driver that I could get from them?

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[16:50:37] <judgen> seen the names for the haiku distro name?

[16:50:44] <judgen> from vasper that is

[16:50:57] <judgen> phoenix will get him into trouble, i assure you that

[16:51:16] <judgen> quantum leap is registered trademark in europe and america

[16:51:37] <judgen> Walter is probably the most sane suggestion

[16:52:05] <mmu_man> src/add-ons/kernel/drivers/tty/tty_private.h

[16:52:06] <mmu_man> OUCH

[16:52:11] <mmu_man> C++ in kernel again

[16:52:22] * mmu_man getting an alergic reaction

[16:52:35] <tqh> we should get some java in there :)

[16:53:03] <mmu_man> yeah sure

[16:53:20] <mmu_man> ok, let's see if usb works any better now

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[16:57:09] <judgen> does axel hang out here anymore?

[16:57:24] <judgen> hej wildur

[16:58:02] <tqh> saw him a day or two ago

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[17:12:09] <mmu_man> KERN: USB Stack: no bus managers available

[17:12:17] <mmu_man> src/add-ons/kernel/bus_managers/usb/Stack.cpp:          TRACE_ERROR(("USB Stack: no bus managers available\n"));

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[17:14:01] <mmu_man> looks like it doesn't find any host controller it knows about

[17:14:25] <tqh> tested under Haiku or BeOS?

[17:14:40] <mmu_man> Haiku

[17:14:43] <tqh> ah

[17:14:57] <tqh> might test it under BeOS someday

[17:14:58] <mmu_man> I guess maybe copying the bus backend from zeta

[17:15:11] <mmu_man> or writing it :)

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[17:17:06] <tqh> do it

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[17:18:35] <mmu_man> ELAZY

[17:19:54] <mmu_man> hmm what's weird is there are all 3 backends already

[17:20:07] <mmu_man> even if they don't work they should load and detect the hw

[17:20:13] <mmu_man> PCI bus, device #6: Serial Bus Controller (USB) [c|3|10]

[17:20:18] <mmu_man> PCI bus, device #7: Serial Bus Controller (USB) [c|3|10]

[17:20:25] <mmu_man> PCI bus, device #8: Serial Bus Controller (USB) [c|3|20]

[17:20:36] <mmu_man> at least one of them should be loading

[17:20:55] <mmu_man> besides the stack actually publishes the 3 hubs

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[17:21:04] <mmu_man> why they say it doesn't find anything ?

[17:21:18] <mmu_man> hmm how do I build that thing in debug mode ?

[17:21:51] <tqh> not familiar with that

[17:23:53] <tqh> I wish I was and had time for other projects than browsers :/

[17:24:04] <mmu_man>  KERN: usb_ehci: no devices found

[17:24:05] <mmu_man>  KERN: usb_uhci: no devices found

[17:24:18] <mmu_man> means they load but tell they fail because they don't have any device ?

[17:24:25] <mmu_man> that seems wrong

[17:24:44] <tqh> shouldn't they be ordinary devices, so you can check syslog?

[17:26:20] <mmu_man> ?

[17:26:28] <mmu_man> it's fropm syslog

[17:26:30] <tqh> like BeOS 'KERN ''[52]: uhci_init(),...' and such

[17:26:43] <tqh> ah

[17:26:45] <mmu_man> yes but I must build them with debugging enabled

[17:32:34] <tqh> if in doubt, spray with printf's or kprintfs :)

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[17:37:21] <CHodapp> NOES, how can I ever mess with Haiku when almost all my waking hours are at work on this awful Windows 2000 box?

[17:39:06] <umccullough> w2k isn't so aweful ;)

[17:39:16] <mmu_man> C++ generated/objects/dano/x86/debug_1/tools/gensyscalls/gensyscalls.o

[17:39:21] <mmu_man> hmm no not what I want

[17:39:25] <mmu_man> DEBUG=1 jam usb doesn't work

[17:39:42] <umccullough> awful even

[17:40:18] <tqh> CHodapp vmware maybe?

[17:41:01] <umccullough> tqh, are you looking into FF on Haiku?

[17:41:16] <tqh> more like thinking about it

[17:41:27] <umccullough> let me know if you need any testing help :)

[17:41:30] <CHodapp> tqh: the IT lady isn't the brightest crayon in the box.

[17:41:42] <CHodapp> tqh: she wouldn't understand what VMware does

[17:41:50] <tqh> I'd have to get Mozilla's buildsystem to be inside haiku's building environment

[17:42:09] <umccullough> CHodapp, i guess you don't work in the IT industry? ;)

[17:42:28] <CHodapp> umccullough: plenty of IT people are intelligent...

[17:42:29] <tqh> And I'm not very fond of either Linux or messing with autoconf and makefiles

[17:42:38] <umccullough> tqh, hmm...

[17:42:59] <umccullough> tqh, you just want it to use Haiku headers and link to haiku libs?

[17:43:20] <tqh> could be a start, gcc4 would be awfully interesting too

[17:43:28] <umccullough> ooh..yeah that would be fun ;)

[17:43:37] <tqh> oh and using haiku's build-tools

[17:44:18] <umccullough> jam?

[17:44:22] <tqh> right now I have all my partitions full so first task would be to clear some space for a linux partition

[17:44:48] <tqh> no, just get autoconf accept to use the haiku tools instead of system ones

[17:44:54] <umccullough> i see, you're looking to cross-compile everything from linux?

[17:44:57] <tqh> ie the crosscompiler

[17:45:04] <umccullough> yeah, that will be tougher ;)

[17:45:22] <tqh> only option until gcc can handle huge projects under Haiku as I see it

[17:45:33] <tqh> or work on some parts under BeOS

[17:45:40] <umccullough> well, you can still compile on R5 and link everything to Haiku, no?

[17:46:02] <tqh> that could actually work if I checked out a Haiku tree

[17:46:12] <umccullough> heh, 800mb ;)

[17:46:41] <tqh> from experience I know that autoconf usually finds things it shouldn't

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[17:47:01] * tqh thinks autoconf is to smart for it's own good

[17:47:03] <umccullough> just mangle the lib path

[17:47:08] <_hugo> hugo@europa:~/code/haiku$ du -s -h .git/

[17:47:09] <_hugo> 132M    .git/

[17:47:38] <_hugo> 132M, all history since r11769

[17:47:42] <umccullough> _hugo, it's > 300mb last I heard (with buildtools) and double that for the .svn dirs

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[17:47:47] <tqh> having a preconfigured buildtree on a diskimage and then messing with it would be an option

[17:48:04] <_hugo> umccullough: this doesnt include the buildtools, only trunk/

[17:48:08] <_hugo> and git compresses it

[17:48:12] <umccullough> i see

[17:48:27] <tqh> diskspace is not a problem luckily

[17:48:52] <umccullough> mm.. that reminds me... i need to finish setting up my net_server partition

[17:50:10] <umccullough> tqh, i fear at this point, troubleshooting FF on Haiku will basically yield a huge amount of Haiku bugfixes ;)

[17:50:19] <umccullough> and maybe a few for FF too :P

[17:50:58] <tqh> yes, but I'd like to start early

[17:51:16] <umccullough> yes, FF needs to be running on Haiku very soon ;)

[17:51:56] <tqh> biggest problem is that the code in Firefox trunk no longer supports anything else than Cairo

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[17:52:10] <tqh> and Cairo fails 85% of tests on my machine

[17:52:11] <umccullough> how is the Cairo BeOS port?

[17:52:14] <umccullough> oh

[17:52:29] <_hugo> i dont think porting Cairo should be difficult

[17:52:30] <umccullough> did Bernd ever provide his port?

[17:52:54] <tqh> it is ported, it just needs to be completed

[17:52:59] <_hugo> whats missing?

[17:53:10] <tqh> getting it to pass the tests

[17:53:24] <_hugo> are tests about missing features or rendering quality?

[17:53:32] <tqh> some rendered test-images gets clipped wrong and such

[17:53:51] <_hugo> i see

[17:53:56] <tqh> ie left side is ok, but right side clips a few drawing ops and such

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[17:54:25] <umccullough> it would be nice to have Cairo anyhow...

[17:54:28] <tqh> I had to port a lot of apps to get it building and add some synchronization primites though

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[17:54:37] <tqh> primitives

[17:55:15] <_hugo> tqh: synchronization primitives to cairo itself?

[17:56:11] <tqh> yes or rather adaptions so Cairo nows how to use them

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[17:56:42] <_hugo> isn't cairo's rendering synchronous? what does it need to lock?

[17:58:03] <emitrax> mmu_man: how do you see the syslog messages on Haiku? is there something like dmesg ?

[17:58:22] * tqh rumages thru the code

[17:58:42] <umccullough> dprintf?

[17:58:53] <mmu_man> emitrax just like in BeOs, enable it in /boot/home/config/settings/kernel/drivers/kernel

[17:59:37] <mmu_man> all dprintf() calls show up in syslog then with the KERN: prefix

[18:00:00] <emitrax> never used BeOS that's why I'm asking

[18:00:07] <tqh> things like this: typedef sem_id cairo_mutex_t;

[18:00:09] <emitrax> linux only so far ... sorry :)

[18:00:26] <_hugo> tqh: is the port available online?

[18:00:57] <tqh> not my changes, but that is very small

[18:01:21] <tqh> i thought I wrote locking functions but got away with only defines I saw now.

[18:01:22] <_hugo> ill grab cairo's source, i wonder where stuff like the cairo mutex is stuff

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[18:01:36] <_hugo> is used that is

[18:01:43] <tqh> I used cairo-1.3.14

[18:02:03] <tqh> can send the files I patched if you want them

[18:02:16] <emitrax__> mmu_man: syslog_debug_output true

[18:02:20] <_hugo> tqh: thanks, dont need them yet. just wondering about cairo's locking model

[18:02:26] <tqh> the tools that are needed for Cairo needs to be built also

[18:02:28] <emitrax__> damn connection

[18:02:39] <tqh> some with minor configuration or modification

[18:03:26] <tqh> fontconfig-2.4.2.tar.gz, freetype-2.3.1.tar.gz, libpng-1.2.16.tar.gz, libxml2-2.6.27.tar.gz, pkg-config-0.21.tar.gz

[18:03:40] <mmu_man> emitrax__ yes

[18:03:57] <tqh> those are the ones I used

[18:04:18] <emitrax__> mmu_man: now where do I see them ?

[18:04:33] <tqh> fontconfig needing LDFLAGS="-lbind -lsocket" configure --prefix=/boot/home/config/

[18:04:42] <mmu_man> on reboot the kernel messages will be sent to /var/log/syslog

[18:04:51] <tqh> libxml LDFLAGS="-lbind -lbsd" configure --prefix=/boot/home/config/

[18:04:54] <mmu_man> you can open a Terminal

[18:04:55] <_hugo> tqh: i would be nice if you compiled this information in some page. so more people get it

[18:04:55] <mmu_man> type

[18:04:59] <mmu_man> tail -f /var/log/syslog

[18:05:02] <mmu_man> to see them live

[18:05:24] <tqh> other than that they should build

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[18:06:18] <tqh> it's just mutex_lock and _unlock

[18:06:21] <emitrax__> that's what I though but that file hasn't been created yet

[18:06:53] <emitrax__> mmu_man: thanks!

[18:07:17] <emitrax__> thought*

[18:07:32] <mmu_man> oco: I wrote a parallel debug outptu for zeta once

[18:07:36] <mmu_man> I can add that

[18:07:43] <mmu_man> just needs a laplink-like cable

[18:08:04] <mmu_man> was quite handy to get that laptop booting here :))

[18:08:12] <mmu_man> as it didn't have serial either

[18:09:24] <oco> mmu_man : hi

[18:09:47] <mmu_man> just needs the laplinktty driver I made in BeOS on the other end

[18:09:57] <mmu_man> was very slow but worked

[18:10:07] <umccullough> null printer cable isn't hard to make

[18:10:10] <oco> ok

[18:10:19] <mmu_man> as for IrDA I think it needs teh whole protocol stack on top of the UART

[18:10:30] <oco> i have not yet such cable

[18:10:37] <mmu_man> yes hardware book has the wiring

[18:10:39] <oco> even for SIR ?

[18:10:49] <mmu_man> dunno

[18:11:23] <mmu_man> http://www.hardwarebook.info/LapLink/InterLink_Parallel this one IIRC

[18:11:38] <mmu_man> nibble-based

[18:12:01] <mmu_man> I'll add the code to haiku anyway

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[18:14:31] <oco> i have seen some simple serial infrared driver in Linux that suggest me it should be possible without an irda stack. But still too complicated for me

[18:15:14] <oco> i was looking more in the infrared way, as i already have a cable !

[18:16:24] <mmu_man> well maybe if you can get it set up right

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[18:17:55] <mmu_man> the parallel code used to work though

[18:18:08] <mmu_man> a bit tricky but that's it

[18:20:51] <tqh> _hugo btw about compiling the info, yes it's on my todo-list

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[18:23:27] <oco> mmu_man : i will take a look at this solution.

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[18:28:29] <gr00ber> yeah baby

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[18:56:00] <_hugo> does anyone know how BGA's presentation went?

[18:56:09] <gr00ber> straight to hell

[18:56:36] <d03boy> how many SoC students did haiku get?

[18:56:41] <_hugo> d03boy: 8

[18:56:56] <d03boy> wow

[18:56:59] <Ingenu> yup

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[18:57:44] <gr00ber> what items will they focus on ya think?

[18:58:00] <[Beta]> http://code.google.com/soc/haiku/about.html

[18:58:16] <[Beta]> lists each student and a brief explanation of what they'll be doing.

[18:59:08] <gr00ber> "Network stack revamp: IPv6, ICMP, multicast, etc."

[18:59:11] <gr00ber> *summer* of code?

[18:59:20] <[Beta]> yes.

[18:59:21] <gr00ber> sounds more like four seasons of work

[18:59:29] <geist> _hugo is already quite a ways there

[18:59:30] <_hugo> gr00ber: that will be me, yes

[18:59:37] <geist> he's been tearing it up for a few weeks now

[18:59:38] <gr00ber> that's pretty awesome

[18:59:41] <d03boy> :\

[18:59:49] <d03boy> isnt that like... cheating? :P

[18:59:54] <gr00ber> heh

[18:59:57] <_hugo> what is?

[19:00:30] <gr00ber> _hugo, you have prior experience with IPv6 or just jumping straight into the problem?

[19:00:37] <_hugo> gr00ber: i have some experience

[19:00:38] <gr00ber> out of curiosity

[19:01:51] <gr00ber> wouldn't it make more sense to complete the IPv4 stack?

[19:02:03] <_hugo> gr00ber: that's what i've been doing these days

[19:02:11] <gr00ber> ok

[19:03:02] <gr00ber> oh well, godspeed and a whole lotta jolt coke for _hugo

[19:03:08] * gr00ber grabs a bite

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[19:26:03] <devian_> hallo haiku guys

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[19:28:32] <devian_> is haiku support IPv6??

[19:28:51] <gr00ber> well, http://code.google.com/soc/haiku/about.html

[19:29:14] <kad77> its the rest of the world that won't be using it  :D

[19:29:23] <umccullough> _hugo, i think do3boy was maybe suggesting that working on the netstack before GSoC officially starts is "cheating" ;)

[19:29:32] <umccullough> but of course, that's ridiculous :P

[19:29:38] <devian_> ie it is now under implementation??

[19:29:50] <_hugo> umccullough: i've not tackled any of the items in my gsoc application yet. but even if i did, i dont see how that could be cheating

[19:30:01] <gr00ber> ye, doesn't anyone use ipv6?

[19:30:05] <umccullough> _hugo, yes, i know - ridiculous ;)

[19:30:37] <umccullough> widespread ipv6 usage is hindered due to vicious circle I suspect

[19:30:38] <kad77> gr00ber: its been sitting out there for over half a decade ... nobody is doing anything with it but making stacks

[19:30:47] <_hugo> devian_: it will be implemented during the following months

[19:30:50] <gr00ber> that's my impression

[19:30:58] <gr00ber> NAT'ing large made IPv6 less urgent

[19:31:01] <umccullough> nobody will use it because nobody will use it

[19:31:02] <gr00ber> largely

[19:31:17] <gr00ber> in time maybe

[19:31:22] <kad77> well, from netwrok engineers (AOL, google) i've talked to, i wouldn't hold my breath :D

[19:31:29] <gr00ber> i'm not

[19:31:30] <umccullough> i suspect there will be a point where a massive migration occurs

[19:31:43] <devian_> yes .......what tutorials are you using for that??

[19:31:50] <gr00ber> umccullough, depends. There are initiatives to replace the entire current stack - event Vinc is on that track

[19:31:59] <gr00ber> that *requires* a massive migration to work

[19:32:01] <_hugo> devian_: RFCs, not tutorials

[19:32:12] <[Beta]> clean-slate.

[19:32:21] <_hugo> gr00ber: that wont happen

[19:32:28] <kad77> a new network would have many benefits, but you can be sure he powers that be will kill anonymity at every turn

[19:32:29] <gr00ber> not in this decade

[19:32:33] <[Beta]> Very unlikely to happen.

[19:32:46] <devian_> ok fine

[19:33:04] <gr00ber> yes, i think ipv4 and it's hacks will survive for another few decades

[19:33:07] <gr00ber> its

[19:33:09] <_hugo> gr00ber: Vince btw thinks it is a good exercise -- note "exercise"

[19:33:18] <gr00ber> yes

[19:33:24] <_hugo> gr00ber: IPv4 will not survived for another few decades

[19:33:27] <_hugo> survive even

[19:33:32] <Pulko_Mandy> i'll have problems connecting my win3.11 box to the net in ipv6 :)

[19:33:38] <gr00ber> well, i'm not so sure

[19:33:47] <kad77> hugo: thats what people thought about x86 :D

[19:33:49] <umccullough> exactly, designing a new monster network infrastructure can help determine what the weaknesses are with the current one - but not necessarily replace it ;)

[19:34:12] <devian_> _hugo:what is the Routing table configuration of IPv6...can u give me any resource??

[19:34:15] <gr00ber> kad77, right. And ipv4 has proved to be adaptible from 2 machines to like 2 billions...ø

[19:34:22] <_hugo> gr00ber: IPv6 hasn't taken off because protocols take some time to take off. the internet wasn't launched in a single day or year

[19:34:35] <gr00ber> yes, but the benefits aren't obvious

[19:34:42] <gr00ber> ipv4 has problems, but it works good enough

[19:34:49] <_hugo> and of course, economic pressure, but as most ISPs will migrate to new hardware (IPv6 supporting) in the next few years

[19:34:58] <gr00ber> that's the current consesus at least, which means nothing will happend

[19:35:13] <kad77> just because the stacks are there doesn't mean everything is go

[19:35:16] <umccullough> having ipv6 support is more of a selling point than an actual usable thing these days ;)

[19:35:17] <_hugo> devian_: what do you mean with configuration?

[19:35:51] <devian_> hugo: what is the ROuting table used in IPv6...as in IPv4

[19:35:53] <_hugo> IPv6 hasn't launched because there are a lot of spots in the core networks which aren't capable of handling IPv6 natively yet

[19:36:04] <_hugo> and because the know how still isn't quite there

[19:36:21] <_hugo> devian_: IPv6 has it's own routing table, i'm not sure what you are asking

[19:36:58] <devian_> yes i am asking that..that what is its properties..i want to know about that..pls say

[19:36:59] <_hugo> Hosts have been IPv6 enabled for a long time, applications as well

[19:37:04] <geist> routing is in general much simpler in ipv6

[19:37:11] <_hugo> devian_: are you asking about the implementation?

[19:37:13] <geist> which is one of it's selling points for core networks

[19:37:28] <gr00ber> as in allows for more efficent routing tables?

[19:37:40] <gr00ber> i thought they'd grow

[19:37:50] <geist> they do, but it's generally much easier to match

[19:37:55] <gr00ber> ok

[19:38:08] <geist> since you can generally heirarchly lay out your routes better to match reality

[19:38:09] <gr00ber> no more patricia trees?

[19:38:10] <_hugo> routing is better in IPv6 because it was thought to be hierarchical from the beggining, while CIDR in IPv4 was an after-tought

[19:38:17] <geist> since there are more bits in the addresses

[19:38:22] <devian_> i asking its definitions, how the Routings are doing there,the conceptions are there what...this i am asking

[19:38:32] <kad77> this should give the ipv6 people some perspective: http://people.redhat.com/drepper/linux-rfc3484.html

[19:38:45] <_hugo> devian_: i am sorry, but what you are asking doesn't make much sense to me

[19:38:58] <geist> aside from 'explain how routing works on ipv6'

[19:39:04] <gr00ber> haha

[19:39:10] <devian_> yes

[19:39:11] <geist> which is a bit out of the scope of this discussion

[19:39:30] <gr00ber> devian_, look at the "TCP/IP Guide" - it has a complete disussion on the topic

[19:39:55] <gr00ber> it's an online book, pretty much as good as the Stevens book, only more updated and free

[19:40:11] <gr00ber> excellent charts, but a fucking mess to navigate

[19:40:22] <gr00ber> The PDA costs $$$

[19:40:24] <gr00ber> PDF

[19:40:43] <kad77> until teh issues in that link are sorted, I would guess 2015 for ipv6

[19:40:46] <gr00ber> which is why the navigation is a mess, i suspect

[19:41:15] <kad77> MS is pushing new RFCs, etc.. its not final and their are unresolved problems with the current spec in practice

[19:41:22] <kad77> *there

[19:41:26] <_hugo> kad77: what problems with the current spec are there?

[19:41:37] <kad77> http://people.redhat.com/drepper/linux-rfc3484.html

[19:41:38] <_hugo> mind you that IPv6 is already used today btw

[19:41:57] <kad77> in an extremely limited subset of society, yes

[19:42:03] * gr00ber sense kad77 is 30 year old troll

[19:42:07] <geist> i've been pushing the colo place my box is at to get on the ipv6 bandwagon

[19:42:16] <geist> and get my box a ipv6 address

[19:42:27] <geist> and yeah i can tunnel, but blah

[19:42:28] <kad77> if you were to assume 1977 was my DOB ... ?

[19:42:33] <gr00ber> geist, colo pace?

[19:42:38] <gr00ber> place

[19:42:46] <_hugo> kad77: this is not a show blocker. and drapper usually isnt very sane about these things anyway

[19:42:47] <geist> where my box is physically located in a rack

[19:42:48] <kad77> be nice 7334 kidd1e

[19:42:53] <gr00ber> k

[19:44:09] <umccullough> colo == co-location

[19:44:17] <gr00ber> i see

[19:45:12] * umccullough goes to unsolder the LEDs in this 120mm fan

[19:45:45] <gr00ber> oh well, time to reimplement the C99 standard library - see ye all in a couple of weeks

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[19:53:43] <umccullough> ah, much better

[19:53:50] * umccullough hates those damn LED fans

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[20:02:38] <judgen> hello darlings

[20:03:02] <judgen> =)

[20:03:10] <judgen> im bankrupt...

[20:03:19] <judgen> bloody swedish taxes

[20:03:49] <judgen> almost as bad as usa.

[20:04:05] <judgen> completley impossible to thrie as a comany

[20:04:12] <judgen> thrive

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[20:05:05] <umccullough> shoulda donated all to Haiku ;)

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[20:11:43] <CIA-17> axeld * r20683 /haiku/trunk/ (headers/os/app/AppDefs.h src/kits/interface/Window.cpp):

[20:11:43] <CIA-17> * Added and implemented B_INVALIDATE as available on Dano; to invalidate only a certain

[20:11:43] <CIA-17>  part of the view, you can add a BRect "be:area" to that message - very handy.

[20:11:43] <CIA-17> * Cleaned up AppDefs.h a bit.

[20:16:15] <kad77> Is anyone from haiku foundation on here much?

[20:17:42] <kad77> umccullough: who maintaines the GCC ports?

[20:20:20] <umccullough> kad77, oliver tappe does most of that

[20:20:23] <umccullough> ingo some

[20:20:57] <kad77> oh, ok... do they have haiku-os.org email addys?

[20:21:27] <umccullough> dunno

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[20:21:35] <umccullough> but you can post to the mailing list

[20:21:48] <kad77> does haiku-os.org have email through google or anything?

[20:23:29] <kad77> i want to bring GCC4 to the latest 4.1.x release, and have a buildserver that outputs statistics about warnings ... I'm concerned these are not being made attention to, and it will cause us all problems

[20:23:57] <_hugo> kad77: gcc 2.95 gets most attention right now, concerning R1

[20:24:05] <kad77> of course

[20:24:32] <kad77> but 2.95 is a dead fish for a number of reasons

[20:25:01] <kad77> the binary only apps that exist are about as relevant as the original BeOS/ZETA at this point

[20:25:15] <[Beta]> its our dead fish until after R1, though

[20:25:24] <kad77> years old, unmaintained ... any gems can be rewritten

[20:26:30] <kad77> well, I think you are being short sighted if you don't think we should be actively getting Haiku to build error/warning free (or very low) under GCC4 while time marches steadily on\

[20:27:25] <[Beta]> I'd like it warning free in gcc 2 tbh

[20:27:28] <_hugo> kad77: several developers already build regularly with gcc 4.1. automated information is welcomed

[20:27:38] <kad77> but to each, his own, I just intend to use a spare P4 I have around as a SVN build server that will post statistics

[20:27:49] <_hugo> kad77: buildtools/ already includes a gcc 4.1, you can start your buildserver immediatly

[20:28:05] <kad77> oh, its up from 4.0.3? great

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[20:28:47] <_hugo> hugo@europa:~/build/haiku-gcc4$ cross-tools/i586-pc-haiku/bin/gcc --version

[20:28:48] <_hugo> gcc (GCC) 4.1.2

[20:28:52] <stargater> hi

[20:29:03] <[Beta]> lo stargater

[20:29:23] <stargater> la [Beta]  :-)

[20:30:30] <kad77> great, I posted this to teh list last month, I guess they did update. :D

[20:30:35] <kad77> great

[20:30:57] <kad77> maybe 6 weeks

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[20:31:14] <kad77> I check on haiku every month or two as I read the lists

[20:32:27] <kad77> In terms of speed, do people prefer to cross-compile under Linux or use R5?

[20:32:36] <_hugo> linux

[20:32:39] <[Beta]> linux

[20:32:52] <kad77> k, answers that. :D

[20:33:45] <kad77> maybe thats what I'll do this afternoon

[20:34:10] <kad77> who hosts buildfactory?

[20:35:20] <kad77> or controls its content, I should say?

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[20:41:36] <gotaku> Hey guys, how's it going?

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[20:44:05] <gotaku> It's really interesting watching old Computer Chronicles episodes.

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[20:50:29] <umccullough> kad77, that's Sikosis

[20:50:44] <kad77> umc: thx

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[20:54:13] <kad77> ho0w about a testsuite that runs in Haiku that reports which functions/features pass/fail? something that uses serial out or something?

[20:54:30] * mmu_man thinks mobile IP(v6) in Haiku will be very handy for smartphones...

[20:55:28] <umccullough> kad77, that could technically be done from the build environment using a test harnass if you're talking about API/Libraries

[20:55:54] <stargater> mmu_man, have you see = http://prex.sourceforge.net/

[20:56:05] <stargater> runds on a gameboyadvants

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[20:56:21] <kad77> Man, if haiku could replace the old Palm in 650/680/700/750 palm phones, people would be ecstatic ... Palm really was a major failute on that front

[20:56:37] <meianoite> hi there

[20:56:47] <mmu_man> kad77 get me one :)

[20:56:53] <kad77> umc: that is what I mean, I want each build to cycle through the APIs with test cases

[20:57:00] <mmu_man> stargater I just saw the post on osnews, didn't dig it

[20:57:17] <stargater> palm have miss the coolnes in here producs

[20:57:17] <kad77> mmu_man: the 700p I have is a chore

[20:57:31] <meianoite> what post on osnews?...

[20:57:45] <stargater> mmu_man, miniHaiku whas nice :-)

[20:57:52] <[Beta]> someone get mmu an n800

[20:57:59] <kad77> its got more lag than is bearable

[20:58:01] <meianoite> oh

[20:58:08] <meianoite> marcus is back to blogging :)

[20:58:08] <gotaku> Lots of Haiku news recently.

[20:58:26] <umccullough> meianoite, about Haiku?

[20:58:32] <kad77> umc: are you saying a framework like that exists?

[20:58:37] <mmu_man> stargater yes... besides I already started a T9 input method =)

[20:58:41] <[Beta]> umccullough, he posted the DVB news on his blog first

[20:58:49] <gotaku> Does the app server have a performance benchmark?

[20:58:53] <meianoite> umccullough? osnews? marcus? (I'm a little lost here)

[20:59:08] <stargater> mmu_man,  nice

[20:59:11] <umccullough> [Beta], ah.. :)

[20:59:18] <stargater> meianoite, haiku-os.org

[20:59:59] <meianoite> aye, no news on Marcus' front, actually. only blogspot.com corrupting the newsfeed and replaying it

[21:00:06] <meianoite> otoh, haiku-os.org... weee ;)

[21:00:21] <gotaku> Anyone know?

[21:00:33] 

[21:00:38] <meianoite> SiI and nvidia

[21:01:14] 

[21:01:22] <meianoite> right after the "atom" icon

[21:01:52] <meianoite> and locks at some IDE messages

[21:01:57] <meianoite> I actually took a screenshot...

[21:02:06] <meianoite> anyone willing to take a look? *hint*

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[21:05:12] <gotaku> meianoite: You trying to get BeOS to run on modern hardware?

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[21:06:26] <meianoite> gotaku yep... how depraved am I =P

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[21:08:07] <gotaku> meianoite: BeOS R5 or BeOS Max?

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[21:08:36] <meianoite> Max. couldn't manage to find my R5 box

[21:08:58] <meianoite> wouldn't do me any good anyway, it's an Athlon machine

[21:09:03] <meianoite> Sempron, actually

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[21:09:43] <mmadia> usually, to boot R5 Pro on an amd box, you'd just need a boot floppy with a patched kernel.

[21:09:48] <mmadia> http://mmadia.zelect.org

[21:09:54] <gotaku> Alright. I don't think I can help you though.

[21:09:59] <meianoite> mmadia I even used your floppy builder

[21:10:03] <meianoite> to no avail

[21:10:17] <miqlas> Why good the GSoC for Google?

[21:10:20] <mmadia> really?   where'd the boot process crap out?

[21:10:28] <meianoite> tried both amd_r5.0.3_boot_cd.img and amd_r5.0.3_boot_cd_iderepl_ramlimiter512.img

[21:10:47] <gotaku> miqlas: Hm?

[21:11:02] <mmadia> the _cd_ tags are to be burned as track 1 when burning a custom boot cd.

[21:11:37] <meianoite> mmadia I'm following the BeOS Max burning guide to the letter

[21:11:42] <meianoite> using cdrecord and all

[21:12:01] <mmadia> cool, just wanted to make sure you werent trying to write that image to a floppy :  )

[21:12:24] <meianoite> actually, it seems that it gets burned as track 0

[21:12:28] <meianoite> then track 1 is padding

[21:12:30] <meianoite> then track 2 is data

[21:12:54] <meianoite> but the command line is an exact replica of Max's guide

[21:13:29] <miqlas> Why good is the GSoC project for Google?

[21:14:09] <meianoite> miqlas for one, it lets core devs concentrate on other tasks than those assigned to GSoC students

[21:14:44] <meianoite> and it paves a way for those students to get more involved and contribute more code

[21:14:59] <meianoite> that is, those not eyeing only money and "fame"

[21:15:11] <gotaku> fame?

[21:15:18] <meianoite> hence quotation marks :)

[21:15:57] <gotaku> Heh.

[21:16:06] <meianoite> they got their names published

[21:16:15] * meianoite included

[21:16:26] <meianoite> so... a little fame

[21:16:53] <meianoite> not to mention how a sizable amount of comments regarding GSoC on osnews was from the Haiku community

[21:17:02] <meianoite> it raises awareness

[21:17:32] <gotaku> I wonder if Haiku R1 can be reached by 2008.

[21:17:44] <meianoite> early 2008? late 2008?

[21:18:06] <meianoite> I'd say late 2008, yes

[21:18:13] <meianoite> if no turd polishing occurs :)

[21:18:15] <JonathanThompson> Late 2008 seems within reach.

[21:18:30] * JonathanThompson wonders how much it costs to buy a bottle of turd polish

[21:18:42] <gotaku> By 2008 I meant January 31, 2007

[21:18:44] <gotaku> ;)

[21:19:07] * meianoite tries to find the keys for the DeLorean

[21:19:10] <JonathanThompson> Time-travel development process!  Hey, just what everyone needs! :)

[21:19:16] <meianoite> (and a bunch of organic waste)

[21:19:21] <gotaku> Bah, December 31 rather.

[21:19:31] <JonathanThompson> And your Portable Mr. Fusion device :)

[21:19:56] <meianoite> or a couple rods and checking the weather girl :)

[21:20:23] * JonathanThompson notes it'd be difficult to have had the story take place in western Washington: lightning here is very rare

[21:20:38] <gotaku> I wish the kernel was more stable.

[21:20:46] * meianoite seconds gotaku

[21:21:06] * JonathanThompson notes he's never seen a phone book or web listing for a kernel shrink

[21:21:12] <gotaku> I think the threads are killing us. Locks suck.

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[21:21:40] <meianoite> JonathanThompson that was funny. :D

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[21:22:43] <meianoite> hi emitrax

[21:22:44] <JonathanThompson> Thanks, meianoite :)

[21:22:52] <JonathanThompson> Just warming up my humor :P

[21:22:55] <emitrax> hi

[21:22:58] <emitrax> hi meianoite

[21:22:59] * meianoite high5' emitrax

[21:23:03] <gotaku> I didn't find it that funny ;)

[21:23:16] <meianoite> mmadia

[21:23:27] <mmadia> ?

[21:23:33] <JonathanThompson> As I said, just warming up, gotaku :)

[21:24:08] <meianoite> mmadia ready to receive DCC file?

[21:24:24] <mmadia> what dcc file?

[21:24:29] <meianoite> this one

[21:24:39] <mmu_man> prex screenshots don't look very hype though... almost like Contiki =)

[21:24:43] <meianoite> the screenshot where the booting process hangs

[21:25:23] <meianoite> eh... I guess the firewall is blocking the transfer

[21:25:26] <mmadia> try uploading them to imageshak or something.

[21:26:02] <meianoite> nah, I'll just open the ports

[21:26:03] * JonathanThompson grows incredibly annoyed that the Yahoo! mail beta won't allow you to switch back: it has a bug there, too.

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[21:26:24] <gotaku> I wonder how many threading problems are in the code base.

[21:26:37] <JonathanThompson> Enough to snare a bear, no doubt.

[21:27:13] <JonathanThompson> A bare bear,  no less: fuzzy wuzzy was a bear, fuzzy wuzzy had no hair...

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[21:27:29] <JonathanThompson> Fuzzy wuzzy bought a huge amount of Rogaine

[21:27:35] <gotaku> The worst bugs are ones that are intermittent.

[21:27:40] <JonathanThompson> And now he's nothing much more than hair

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[21:27:59] *** [1]meianoite is now known as meianoite

[21:28:09] <JonathanThompson> Or those where the users or developers can say "But it works on my machine!"

[21:28:39] <meianoite> AW.

[21:29:07] <meianoite> well, the ports are open now

[21:29:38] * JonathanThompson wonders if they're starboard or the other port

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[21:31:45] <JonathanThompson> I saw a weird thing when a local humane suciety branch had all the dogs escape, and they were very close to a furniture store holding a large sale: the dogs gave the sales people a ruff time, as they headed in as a pack and bought out all the barkaloungers :)

[21:32:53] <umccullough> hmm.. still cold :P

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[21:33:55] <[2]meianoite> d-link sucks.

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[21:38:24] <mmadia> JonathanThompson  probably not : P

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[21:39:17] <meianoite> eh.

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[21:40:14] <meianoite> ok, imageshack it is.

[21:41:35] <meianoite> mmadia http://img57.imageshack.us/done.php?l=img57/8579/14042007yc1.jpg

[21:41:46] <meianoite> mmu_man care to take a look as well?...

[21:42:30] <mmu_man> http://embedded.hug-nordic.org/?pic=haiku_embedded_320x240_running_apps.png rox :)

[21:43:05] <mmu_man> meianoite the smaller pic in the middle ?

[21:43:20] <mmu_man> the ads are so big you search for the actual pic in the page :-(

[21:43:26] <mmu_man> http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14042007yc1.jpg :)

[21:43:27] <meianoite> http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14042007yc1.jpg

[21:43:31] <meianoite> sorry :)

[21:43:34] <meianoite> I'm not used to imageshack

[21:44:09] <meianoite> this is when I disabled SATA alltogether

[21:44:15] <mmu_man> what's teh problem ? hanging there ?

[21:44:23] <meianoite> yeah, it's stuck there

[21:44:26] <mmadia> mmu_man   http://haikunews.org/index.php?id=1184    ; )

[21:44:29] <meianoite> and the HD lights keep turned on

[21:44:39] <meianoite> it even sounds like there's some activity

[21:44:44] <meianoite> from time to time

[21:44:56] <meianoite> it was beginning to scare me.

[21:45:30] <meianoite> like... "what if it decides to corrupt the heck out of the drive, like IDE Replacement once did on my old computer?"

[21:45:44] <mmu_man> mmadia :))

[21:46:06] <mmu_man> meianoite R5 or zeta ?

[21:46:09] <meianoite> R5

[21:46:26] <meianoite> I don't own Zeta

[21:46:31] <mmu_man> last versions of zeta can be sent to KDL when booting with CTRL-D

[21:46:39] <mmu_man> it would help to know where it hangs

[21:46:52] <mmu_man> but I suppose it just doesn't support teh controller

[21:47:43] <mmu_man> Lirpa and TSRif lol :))

[21:47:50] <mmu_man> first april =)

[21:48:11] <meianoite> that's weird

[21:48:21] <meianoite> how big of a whore Windows is?

[21:48:37] <mmadia> i'm not sure how many people picked up on the name play last year.

[21:48:38] <meianoite> it takes both the IDE controller and the SATA one, no questions asked, no drivers required

[21:49:44] <meianoite> hm... what I didn't try, however, is safe mode without disabling user additions

[21:49:52] <meianoite> so IDE Replacement is probably not kicking in

[21:50:37] * meianoite goes on to erase the DVDRW once more =/

[21:51:10] <mmadia> IDE replacement isn't set up as a user-addon when booting with the images from my site.

[21:51:11] <mmu_man> can't you do that from the boot menuuu ??

[21:51:36] <mmu_man> btw, make sure your BIOS enables both the IDE and SATA controllers

[21:51:52] <meianoite> mmadia mmu_man yeah, however the image I burned doesn't sport IDE Rep

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[21:52:01] <mmu_man> I saw a Vista CD that couldn't find itself because the DVD drive was on PATA

[21:52:07] <mmu_man> and the BIOS only had SATA enabled =)

[21:52:22] <mmu_man> Vista sux anyway

[21:52:35] <meianoite> well

[21:52:36] <mmu_man> "This software is for Windows XP or later"

[21:52:42] <mmu_man> when trying to add drivers...

[21:52:46] <mmu_man> and even much funnier

[21:52:47] <meianoite> what I *DID* was disabling SATA

[21:52:54] <meianoite> and left IDE untouched

[21:53:06] <mmu_man> "The installer has detected that the currently running operating system is not Windows"

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[21:53:15] <umccullough> meianoite, hope your cd/dvd is on PATA ;)

[21:53:16] <mmu_man> how teh f* can it run if it's not windows ? ;)

[21:53:36] <meianoite> the DVD is on PATA

[21:53:41] <umccullough> mmu_man, maybe it's trying to avoid WINE ;)

[21:53:46] <mmu_man> maybe

[21:53:49] <meianoite> or sometimes USB

[21:53:59] <meianoite> mmu_man OS/2?

[21:54:07] <mmu_man> eh :))

[21:54:12] <mmu_man> REactOS =)))

[21:55:04] <meianoite> cdrecord.exe dev=0,1,0 speed=4 -v -data "..\amd_r5.0.3_boot_cd_iderepl_ramlimiter512.img" ..\BeOS5PEMaxEditionV4b1\files\BeOS5PEMaxEditionV4b1.iso

[21:55:09] <meianoite> that should do it, no?

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[21:55:16] <umccullough> meianoite, you're on windows?

[21:55:28] <umccullough> use Nero!

[21:55:28] <meianoite> umccullough eh, unfortunately, yes.

[21:55:35] * meianoite won't touch nero with a 10ft pole

[21:55:42] <meianoite> and it BOOTS, for christ sake

[21:55:43] <umccullough> omg, nero is excellent

[21:55:44] * mmu_man neither

[21:55:53] <mmu_man> the only 2 times I tried it it made me a coaster

[21:55:53] <meianoite> only... it... hangs

[21:55:54] <umccullough> maybe it's the track layout

[21:56:00] <meianoite> well

[21:56:01] <mmu_man> cdrecord POWAH

[21:56:05] <meianoite> it IS finding the bootloader

[21:56:14] <umccullough> maybe it's not finding the BFS image

[21:56:21] <meianoite> hardly so

[21:56:26] <meianoite> when it doesn't, it says so

[21:56:30] <umccullough> ok

[21:56:30] <meianoite> it's just rebooting =P

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[21:57:17] <umccullough> true, it's probably just bad drivers

[21:57:28] <umccullough> hi siarzhuk :)

[21:57:46] <siarzhuk> hi

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[22:00:56] <mmu_man> the bootloader is part of teh floppy image in the el torito iso

[22:01:07] <mmu_man> it doesn't mean it finds the BFS image

[22:01:09] <mmu_man> indeed

[22:01:54] <kad77> is their a preferred linux distribution for cross-compiling?

[22:01:55] <kad77> there*

[22:02:01] <meianoite> but it DOES report when not finding any bootable partitions

[22:02:16] <siarzhuk> xi

[22:02:45] <siarzhuk> sorry, wrong window ;)

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[22:07:06] <kad77> the wiki is extremely sparse, it does not mention what packages you need, anything

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[22:08:50] <Hummin> wuuuuzzzuup!?

[22:08:55] <Hummin> congrats _hugo

[22:08:56] <[Beta]> any 32bit linux should be good

[22:09:00] <Hummin> you made it

[22:09:04] <Hummin> =)

[22:09:05] <kad77> just building the haiku tools, obviously.. no hints if anything else is required or not

[22:09:58] <kad77> I usually use very minimal distros, I'm not into hundreds of megs of pet project programs

[22:10:27] <surrounder> gotta love crux

[22:10:52] <kad77> i use lunar atn

[22:10:54] <kad77> ATM

[22:10:54] <surrounder> ah

[22:10:58] <surrounder> also nice

[22:11:04] <surrounder> had a lot of problems with it though

[22:11:06] <surrounder> I prefer crux

[22:11:35] <kad77> I'll download it now, I've heard its good. updated more frequently too it seems

[22:11:50] <surrounder> definitly

[22:11:54] <surrounder> and it's also very KISS

[22:11:55] <surrounder> I love it

[22:11:59] <Hummin> isn't the arch linux installer going to be the standard for haiku packages?

[22:12:09] <[Beta]> no

[22:12:22] <surrounder> thank god

[22:12:27] <Hummin> hehe.

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[22:12:38] <Hummin> alright.. but there will be a built in online updating system ?

[22:12:47] <[Beta]> possibly.

[22:12:55] <Hummin> cause I hate how windows apps and drivers have a trillion auto update ups

[22:13:03] <Hummin> you get one with any peace of software

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[22:13:22] <surrounder> true

[22:13:27] <surrounder> but windows if inferiour anyhows

[22:13:29] <Hummin> soon you have like 20 auto-update apps

[22:13:33] <Hummin> word

[22:13:36] <kad77> crux 2.3 torrent is moving nicely .. thanks

[22:13:39] <Hummin> ubuntu works kinda nice

[22:13:42] <surrounder> kad77: np

[22:13:47] <Hummin> if you have debian sources for everything

[22:13:54] <surrounder> kad77: if you like minimalistic and KISS, you'd like crux

[22:14:04] <kad77> thats me :D

[22:14:11] <surrounder> you'd like it then ;)

[22:14:30] * kad77 runs server 2003 stripped on windows boxes

[22:14:41] <Hummin> crux were made by swedes initially, right ?

[22:14:43] <kad77> last good OS to come out of redmond

[22:14:54] <surrounder> Hummin: a swede indeed

[22:15:03] <Hummin> damn.. those swedes are crazy

[22:15:08] <Hummin> =)

[22:15:12] <stargater> kad77, you mean lycoris ?

[22:15:38] * Hummin is offcourse swedish

[22:15:39] <kad77> no, i was referring to 2003 server ... :/

[22:15:49] <kad77> R2

[22:16:02] <surrounder> Hummin: hehe

[22:16:59] <judgen> anyone from sweden....

[22:17:18] <judgen> im looking for a song that i loved from my youth

[22:17:18] <Hummin> yeah

[22:17:25] <Hummin> swedish one ?

[22:17:57] <judgen> in sweden there was a guy called thastroem that wa inmmensly popular when i grew up

[22:18:43] <judgen> and the song is a cover of someone called bellman and its called "mar hur var skugga" and damn good

[22:19:37] <judgen> something about bells and a priest in the lyrics

[22:20:00] <judgen> Hummin: do you got it?

[22:20:58] 

[22:21:03] <judgen> yeah

[22:21:21] <Hummin> I know of the dude.. but don't have any songs with him

[22:21:22] <judgen> i dont got a auml sign on my keyb atm

[22:21:29] <judgen> damn

[22:21:36] <Hummin> I'm sure you can find them on a swedish torrent site

[22:21:43] <Hummin> www.piratebay.org

[22:21:48] <meianoite> alt-w? :)

[22:21:49] <judgen> like the pirate bazy?

[22:21:51] <Hummin> ^ lot's of swedish stuff

[22:21:55] <Hummin> word

[22:21:56] <meianoite> (just in case you're on windoze)

[22:22:10] <judgen> tried it, but they only have complete albums,,,

[22:22:13] * mmu_man reading http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Processeur_ARM

[22:22:25] <Hummin> then get a whole album with the song on, and disanle the other files?

[22:22:31] <judgen> i hava a slow isp atm.. (ALV)

[22:22:38] <judgen> its swedish

[22:22:48] <Hummin> yeah.. well you don't have to get all the files

[22:22:52] <judgen> but i live in finland at the moment

[22:23:02] <Hummin> speak swedish ?

[22:23:30] <judgen> swedish, english, german, french, italian and spanish

[22:23:35] <Hummin> finland.. funny how so much innovation come out of a country where people's blood-type is vodka and they live in saunas

[22:23:37] <Hummin> =)

[22:23:52] <judgen> i dont speak finnish yet but im working onit

[22:23:52] <Hummin> damn.. working as a translator ?

[22:24:34] <judgen> i work as boss of a software sales company, but we went bancrupt

[22:24:56] <Hummin> oh.. that sucks

[22:24:59] <judgen> so atm i have to fix stuff before i can do anything else

[22:25:08] <Hummin> were you mainly selling zeta software?

[22:25:09] <Hummin> =)

[22:25:17] <judgen> no

[22:25:20] <Hummin> just playin

[22:25:27] <judgen> we dd not sell any zeta software

[22:25:46] <Hummin> got vmware up now.. gonna get the updated tree and see what miricles have been made in a bit

[22:25:51] <judgen> but we used beos+gobe as our main os/officesuite

[22:25:59] <Hummin> oh.. cool

[22:26:04] <Hummin> I got them boxed

[22:26:04] <judgen> my company, my rules =)

[22:26:54] <judgen> my other companies will make upp the loss amd ng-bug will be resurrected eventually

[22:27:19] <judgen> to be honest they arent min anymore

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[22:27:37] <judgen> but i have a very good potion of stock =)

[22:27:47] <Hummin> alright.. cool

[22:27:49] <judgen> enough to live of to speak

[22:28:13] <judgen> Hummin: are you a programmer?

[22:29:12] <Hummin> yeah

[22:29:14] <Hummin> why

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[22:29:15] <Hummin> ?

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[22:29:31] <Hummin> I develop the software in a dvd-vending kiosk

[22:29:35] <judgen> haha a guy wanted tv in and didnt want to buy a tv vard, so he traded my radeonAIW for a X850VIVO with no cash involved

[22:29:55] <judgen> hej wildur

[22:30:11] <judgen> Hummin: what have you done so far?

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[22:30:40] <judgen> (maybe looking for emloyees) =)

[22:31:02] <mmu_man> hmm looks like the first step would be support for u-boot :)

[22:31:15] <pikapika> hello

[22:31:22] <mmu_man> git... ugh

[22:31:31] <judgen> mmu_man did i miss something?

[22:31:31] <mmu_man> one more SCN I don't have time to port

[22:31:40] <mmu_man> talking to myself

[22:31:45] <mmu_man> exec > /dev/null

[22:31:46] <mmu_man> :)

[22:31:58] <judgen> youre a good coder, youll find someway

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[22:32:31] <judgen> mmu_man: you did work for Yt once right?

[22:32:38] <mmu_man> yes

[22:32:48] <judgen> how was that like?

[22:33:14] <judgen> everytime i met berd he seemed like a very nice person

[22:33:39] <judgen> (twice)

[22:33:52] <judgen> so i dont really know

[22:34:04] <mmu_man> I wasn't in germany much as I was working from france

[22:34:10] <mmu_man> but it was nice

[22:34:31] <judgen> were they as nice as i imagine (or heard from others)

[22:34:51] <judgen> access will not press charges 100%

[22:35:24] <mmu_man> seemed all friendly

[22:35:33] <judgen> they might on the small "low cost" scale in germany but no way they can fine him

[22:35:38] <mmu_man> I miss it actually :)

[22:36:15] <mmu_man> no way, taken they might even be wrong

[22:36:26] <mmu_man> either they are clueless or they lost papers when moving :)

[22:36:45] <judgen> i should have sold my stock of be.inc then they started with BeIA but i didint...

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[22:39:10] <mmu_man> now you have stuff to wipe you at the toilet :)

[22:39:11] <judgen> but to be frank, when JLG left i h ad no believes that be would survive

[22:39:24] <judgen> =)

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[22:40:05] <judgen> those sock will not  be sold, even as toilet paper in a very long while

[22:40:11] <mmu_man> re oco_

[22:40:30] <oco_> re mmu_man !

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[22:40:50] <judgen> ill always keep atleast 4 though, one in each of my houses

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[22:41:06] <judgen> mass drops arent nice

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[22:41:26] <judgen> wonder what myob is doing

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[22:42:16] <MikeW> judgen: hmm?

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[22:42:26] <judgen> mmu_man: i dont think i have met you. i wish i do sometime. id your name revol?

[22:42:34] <mmu_man> yes

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[22:42:38] 

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[22:42:52] <judgen> mmu_man: cant spell that on a finnish keyb

[22:43:11] <judgen> frankois

[22:43:13] <judgen> =)

[22:43:28] <mmu_man> &ccedil;

[22:43:34] <judgen> aaah

[22:43:39] <judgen> that works too

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[22:44:34] <judgen> can i refer to you as mmu_man or do i have to remember that              for every conversation (i have a good memory)

[22:45:09] <judgen> as you might know i have photograpical memory =(

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[22:45:26] <MikeW> or just mTAB

[22:46:02] <judgen> i can chagne name... so its easier to namecomplete

[22:46:03] <mmu_man> lol

[22:46:23] <mmu_man> I sometimes have trouble matching nicknames with real names :)

[22:46:40] <MikeW> mmu_man: ha. I know the feeling

[22:46:55] <judgen> press 4 than tab =)

[22:47:14] <judgen> lol freenode didnt accept it

[22:47:15] <MikeW> mmu_man: I was in MYOBs kitchen a few months ago and we were chatting about haiku and I kept having to ask him for peoples IRC handles

[22:47:25] <MikeW> as I didn't know their real names

[22:47:40] <MikeW> and some are very hard to pronounce

[22:47:59] <judgen> MikeW: did he say anything ab about me?

[22:48:04] <judgen> bed*

[22:48:13] <MikeW> judgen: who are you?

[22:48:15] <judgen> crap i cant spell, i ment bad

[22:48:46] <umccullough> stupid question: how to grep recursively in BeOS?

[22:48:55] <mmu_man> grep -R

[22:49:01] <mmu_man> hmm maybe R5's doesn't have that option

[22:49:03] <mmu_man> you can use find

[22:49:04] <umccullough> doesn't work :P

[22:49:09] <judgen> swedish retard who probably ran the last "office" that sold software thet we didnt use

[22:49:16] <mmu_man> find ... -exec grep foo {} \;

[22:49:18] <umccullough> does GNU grep compile for R5?

[22:49:40] <judgen> we sold microsoft products also, but we all worked in BeOS

[22:50:00] <MikeW> judgen: you were working with MYOB?

[22:50:11] <judgen> (my company, my ryles)

[22:50:18] <judgen> MikeW: nope

[22:50:29] <judgen> MikeW: but we have talked alot

[22:50:36] <MikeW> I don't ever recall your name coming up, it was mainly about code

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[22:50:46] <MikeW> and how MYOB had the most powerful beos machine in the world

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[22:51:06] <judgen> MikeW:  i remember when MYOB was just an irish noob talking with me about the renewal of pc hardware

[22:51:08] <MikeW> also I got my first taste of zeta, and christ its an insanely UGLY os. Degusting decorators

[22:51:16] <judgen> must have been ages ago

[22:51:26] <judgen> but i can check, i log everything

[22:51:52] <judgen> MikeW: zeta has it bueties

[22:51:53] <mmu_man> taste is all relative

[22:52:04] <mmu_man> but I agree there were bad taste sometimes :)

[22:52:05] <MikeW> consistancy isn't however

[22:52:12] * mmu_man pets his Citrus theme :D

[22:52:36] <MikeW> audio lagging again :(

[22:52:38] <judgen> mit i always run Net.FS om zeta so the problem is non-existant for me

[22:52:52] <judgen> new.fs

[22:53:27] <judgen> the major beef i had/have with zeta is integrated prefs panel

[22:53:48] <judgen> hope haiku NEVER goes down that road

[22:53:58] <mmu_man> latest versions at least didn't have that unusable sliding bar

[22:54:02] <mmu_man> was getting better

[22:54:19] <judgen> separate programs/applets give more freedom

[22:55:01] <judgen> mmu_man: you did the sliding tabs feature in haiku, right?

[22:55:43] <judgen> or did you?

[22:56:04] <judgen> im a bit drunk, and my memory is a bit clouded

[22:56:47] <meianoite> viva la booze :)

[22:57:07] <judgen> on an different matter, i won a championchip in chess yesterday

[22:57:19] <meianoite> heh

[22:57:27] <meianoite> you have plenty of reason to celebrate then

[22:57:32] <judgen> i lost the fist two, then i won three

[22:57:37] <umccullough> mmu_man, thanks - find worked :)

[22:57:45] <judgen> best of five =)

[22:58:20] <mmu_man> judgen I did, stippi fixed it and axel added teh API to get it from apps

[22:58:23] <judgen> when im sober, does anyone wanna pley vhess

[22:58:28] <judgen> ?

[22:59:21] <judgen> i love good resistance

[22:59:59] <judgen> i will even tip you about my playing style =P i play assasin

[23:00:42] <Pulko_Mandy> +++

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[23:01:01] <judgen> a good defender often win over me, but its hard to find good defender-playrs nowdays

[23:01:13] * meianoite is dismayed

[23:01:19] <meianoite> nero is a 175MB download

[23:01:30] <meianoite> NOTHING seems to erase this damn DVDRW anymore

[23:01:43] <judgen> attacker vs. assassin = most often a win for the assassin

[23:02:15] <judgen> meianoite: tried beos and dvd+

[23:02:45] <meianoite> judgen I can't boot BeOS. it's the very reason why I'm TRYING to build a bootable CD with IDE replacement and such

[23:02:55] <judgen> aaaah

[23:03:56] <judgen> as zeta is no longer a viable source of income i could give a download link

[23:04:46] <judgen> but remember that its WRONG =)

[23:05:34] <meianoite> I'd rather not touch Zeta at all

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[23:06:10] <judgen> as a customear youre safe, unless you live in the us

[23:06:26] <meianoite> nah, way south of that.

[23:06:53] <judgen> software usage have never beem punished in europe in the sa,e way

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[23:07:13] <judgen> meianoite: argentina?

[23:07:23] <meianoite> Brazil

[23:07:39] <judgen> do you like foot ball?

[23:07:54] <meianoite> heh

[23:08:13] <meianoite> I'm yet to meat ANY european guy who will NOT ask me that up front :)

[23:08:20] <meianoite> but yeah, I happen to ;)

[23:08:22] <judgen> is that like asking an eskimoe fi they know if ice?

[23:09:01] <judgen> i was amazed about the argentinians play in the SAC

[23:09:18] <judgen> they beat brazil by a landslide

[23:09:37] <meianoite> well, it happens

[23:09:51] <meianoite> and you'll be amazed to know plenty of us really DON'T care

[23:09:55] <judgen> but in the WC they could not even beat hungary, even if they wanted

[23:10:02] <meianoite> and sometimes we support the ADVERSARY team

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[23:10:21] <meianoite> mostly when our players are so full of shit we'd really rather see they take a punishment ;)

[23:10:31] <judgen> im not amazed that italy won though

[23:11:02] <judgen> its the only nation that spends more on football  then drug rehab =P

[23:11:09] <meianoite> both Ronaldos were sissies on WC.

[23:11:44] <judgen> i love italy but therir generl political are silly

[23:12:08] <judgen> donaldinho was good

[23:12:53] <meianoite> dude, they were both sissies. trust me. look at Ronaldinho @Barcelona these days

[23:12:55] <judgen> ronaldo was what we woulc call a "fet foredetting"

[23:13:29] <meianoite> and what is a good translation for that? :)

[23:13:40] <judgen> an player i would love in "my"team would be van, nistelroy

[23:13:49] <MikeW> guys, #haiku, kthx

[23:14:08] <meianoite> okay

[23:14:11] <judgen> hes like a god in the forefront of attacking

[23:14:20] <MikeW> judgen: take it to a PM

[23:15:02] <meianoite> Football, a nice game

[23:15:02] <meianoite> Supporters are fanatic, though

[23:15:02] <meianoite> Can't keep quiet

[23:15:09] <meianoite> there, a Haiku for you ;)

[23:15:48] <judgen> meianoite: sorry, but i an just livening up the channel

[23:16:08] <judgen> good haiku though

[23:17:14] <judgen> haha i just pwnaed  aperson with windows

[23:17:20] <meianoite> I didn't mean that as an offence :) I'm a little fanatic myself. here's the local team I support: www.atletico.com.br

[23:17:45] <mmu_man> topic += "no football"

[23:17:46] <mmu_man> ;o

[23:18:22] <judgen> she hadent started the firewall, and i dent a net_send to her to go to tubrirl.com

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[23:18:59] <judgen> disgusting site

[23:19:21] <judgen> maybe the worst in human history

[23:19:49] <judgen> so, anyone wanna play chess=

[23:19:52] <judgen> ?

[23:20:12] <judgen> haha i feel like a flood-noob

[23:20:34] <meianoite> see, THERE's a reason we'd like to have Java on Haiku

[23:20:40] <meianoite> Yahoo! Games ;)

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[23:26:46] <meianoite> judgen, mmu_man, you might not be aware of that, but I too met Bernd in person

[23:27:06] <meianoite> when he came to Rio, I went there to attend his presentation

[23:29:39] <_hugo> hello everyone

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[23:33:41] <meianoite> hey _hugo

[23:34:02] <_hugo> hi there

[23:36:40] <meianoite> _hugo

[23:36:51] <meianoite> did you get a haiku-os.org blogging account already?

[23:36:59] <meianoite> can't seem to find where to enable it =/

[23:37:48] <_hugo> meianoite: i have an account in the website which i created individually

[23:37:56] <_hugo> if i go to "submit" there is a blog option

[23:38:11] <meianoite> oh.

[23:38:13] <meianoite> thanks :)

[23:38:14] <meianoite> it works :)

[23:38:16] <gr00ber> don't blog. code.

[23:38:26] <meianoite> gr00ber hehe ;)

[23:38:48] <meianoite> all in due time.

[23:39:47] <meianoite> besides, I should really try and sort out the booting issues I'm having before I can start coding

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[23:48:37] <meianoite> aye...

[23:49:01] <meianoite> 190MB for stupid, plain, simple, uninteresting DVD burning software.

[23:49:04] <meianoite> damn Nero.

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[23:50:23] <mmu_man> use a real OS

[23:50:32] <meianoite> mmu_man TRYING TO!!!

[23:50:34] <meianoite> ;)

[23:51:39] <mmu_man> mm seems haiku misses some PCI devs here in the enumeration

[23:51:44] <mmu_man> got to try that

[23:51:45] <mmu_man> brb

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top

   April 14, 2007  
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