April 7, 2007 
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April 7, 2007 [00:01:19] *** jpd has quit IRC[00:01:34] *** guma has quit IRC[00:01:44] *** guma has joined #haiku[00:03:29] *** guma has quit IRC[00:03:44] *** guma has joined #haiku[00:08:33] *** _guma_ has joined #haiku[00:15:31] *** guma has quit IRC[00:15:59] <Ingenu> night[00:16:18] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[00:17:16] *** _guma_ has quit IRC[00:18:32] *** XXXGauronXXX has quit IRC[00:21:09] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[00:22:56] *** Mike2K has joined #haiku[00:23:03] *** Mike2K has quit IRC[00:23:22] *** Mike2K has joined #haiku[00:23:27] *** Mike2K has quit IRC[00:35:08] *** kr1stof_ has quit IRC[00:39:19] *** Mazon is now known as mazon[00:40:35] <CIA-17> korli * r20603 /haiku/trunk/ (9 files in 2 dirs):[00:40:35] <CIA-17> change the way FileGameSound works : avoid using a port[00:40:35] <CIA-17> code style, some clean up[00:41:43] *** PascalR has quit IRC[00:51:29] *** Euver has quit IRC[00:55:10] *** TLF has quit IRC[00:58:09] *** ul1984 has quit IRC[01:00:58] *** guildencrantz has quit IRC[01:18:05] <TTRanger> For anybody who might still be up/around, see http://www.tunetrackersystems.com for announcement.[01:21:05] <xcasex> ooo drama >:/[01:28:31] *** sarcas has quit IRC[01:30:40] *** pikapika has quit IRC[01:34:21] <aldeck> hope it doesn't hurt tt sales too much :-/ on the other hand we all know that haiku will work like a charm someday and make this kind troubles a thing of the past :)[01:34:38] <aldeck> *of troubles[01:35:20] <aldeck> so tt still has a bright future :)[01:35:31] <xcasex> well TT is a solid product.[01:37:02] <aldeck> yep, a success story in the beos land! is still going well?[01:37:18] <aldeck> *is it[01:37:23] <xcasex> afaik[01:42:47] * aldeck is building haiku on a linux vm on windows, controlling it with ssh and samba, feeling good :)[01:47:34] *** BGA has quit IRC[01:53:59] *** MikeW has quit IRC[02:06:33] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC[02:16:09] <silverpower> The fallout from the whole Zeta drama's making things a bit worse for them, but it's awesome to see that *somebody* was willing to stick with our platform...[02:16:43] <silverpower> ...this is what I get for ignoring timestamps.[02:16:51] <silverpower> geist, you awake?[02:18:58] *** umccullough_work has joined #haiku[02:21:44] *** _TomB has joined #haiku[02:22:08] <xcasex> silverpower, well. i did tell people that it was a scheme in 2003, but i was called a liar :([02:22:46] *** petterhj- has joined #haiku[02:22:48] *** petterhj- has quit IRC[02:23:38] <silverpower> mm. I was a bit shocked, but not surprised about the mess.[02:24:59] *** petterhj- has joined #haiku[02:26:58] *** petterhj has quit IRC[02:27:04] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[02:30:04] <umccullough_work> silverpower, did you catch geist's results of investigation last night?[02:30:30] <silverpower> not quite sure - I think the consensus was that it was unnecessary on my platform?[02:30:39] *** emitrax_ has joined #haiku[02:30:47] <silverpower> the evil linkhack, I mean.[02:30:52] <shackan> hi emitrax_[02:30:53] *** guma has joined #haiku[02:31:35] <umccullough_work> unnecessary yes, but not easy to remove...ultimately it's a linker bug[02:32:00] <umccullough_work> [08:49:40] <geist> well, found the bug, but it's not real obvious why it got that way[02:32:08] <umccullough_work> [08:49:54] <geist> some internal data strcture in LD is half initialized, and it derefs a null pointer[02:32:17] <emitrax_> hi shackan[02:32:18] <umccullough_work> can read rest of it here: http://echelog.matzon.dk/logs/browse/haiku/1175819411[02:32:33] <emitrax_> any news about the soc ?[02:33:10] <geist> i decided it was basically unnecessary[02:33:26] <geist> so you can continue by editing the kernel/Jamfile and removing the dependency on linkhack[02:40:39] <silverpower> edited - restarting build.[02:40:44] <umccullough_work> so it's easy to remove without affecting?[02:40:51] <umccullough_work> binary compatibility that is[02:41:01] * umccullough_work recalls geist waffling[02:42:32] <silverpower> It mentions 'don't know how to make linkhack.so', so I hope that means I was successful.[02:43:39] <umccullough_work> hmm... must be another jamfile referencing it[02:43:47] <umccullough_work> maybe it's in the HaikuImage script[02:45:03] *** petterhj- has quit IRC[02:46:19] *** emitrax__ has quit IRC[02:47:04] <silverpower> Kernel's building now.[02:47:36] <silverpower> does 'skipped X for lack of kernel.so' mean anything bad?[02:52:06] <silverpower> I'm also seeing quite a few things being built that are outright useless on the platform.[02:52:36] <silverpower> But that's to be expected, I guess.[02:57:20] *** kokito has quit IRC[02:58:05] *** mmadia has joined #haiku[02:58:05] *** slaad has joined #haiku[02:58:31] <umccullough_work> silverpower, skipped for lack of means the image will fail[02:58:42] *** kokito has joined #haiku[02:58:53] <umccullough_work> running with -q would prevent it from continuing at that point[02:59:08] <silverpower> I *am* running -q.[02:59:27] <silverpower> I edited out any reference to linkhack in the kernel/Jamfile.[02:59:34] <umccullough_work> interesting[02:59:54] <umccullough_work> i guess "dont know how to make" doesn't stop a jam[03:00:01] <umccullough_work> figured it would :P[03:00:28] <silverpower> I thought that it would attempt to return to the relevant areas after kernel.so was built, but... *wait*...[03:01:06] <silverpower> kernel.so is built by the Jamfile I edited, correct?[03:01:18] <umccullough_work> i dunno[03:01:36] <umccullough_work> i'm not at home to check either :P[03:02:30] <silverpower> ...no *wonder*. I missed the final reference to linkhack.so in the section where kernel.so is defined.[03:02:58] <silverpower> Let's try that again.[03:03:14] <umccullough_work> ah yes, i see it :)[03:03:31] * umccullough_work went to check the svn repo browser[03:04:20] <silverpower> Got a *second* 'don't know how to make linkhack.so'.[03:05:26] <umccullough_work> but you shouldn't get skipped kernel.so[03:05:55] <umccullough_work> you would need to remove the whole:[03:05:55] <umccullough_work> KernelLd linkhack.so :[03:05:55] <umccullough_work> <$(SOURCE_GRIST)>linkhack.o[03:05:56] <umccullough_work> :[03:05:56] <umccullough_work> :[03:05:57] <umccullough_work> -shared -Bdynamic[03:05:59] <umccullough_work> ;[03:06:04] <umccullough_work> in order to avoid the "don't know how to make" i think...[03:06:11] <umccullough_work> or wait...[03:06:42] <silverpower> I commented out that section.[03:07:59] <silverpower> aaaugh. I missed a *fourth* linkhack reference. See, this is why I should've used search.[03:08:01] <umccullough_work> stupid repo browser is SLOW[03:08:09] <umccullough_work> you should just grep ;)[03:08:52] <silverpower> Okay, starting built, *again*.[03:09:01] <silverpower> *build[03:09:40] *** petterhj has quit IRC[03:10:25] *** steffen_f__ has joined #haiku[03:10:28] *** steffen_f__ is now known as steffen_f[03:10:29] <umccullough_work> jeez, is linkhack.c just an empty file?[03:11:45] <silverpower> the relevant "don't know how to make linkhack.c/so" is gone now.[03:11:50] <umccullough_work> cool[03:11:56] <umccullough_work> so, now onto the next failure ;)[03:12:32] <silverpower> :)[03:13:26] <silverpower> Now it's actually bothering to link all that stuff.[03:13:31] <umccullough_work> darn[03:13:40] <umccullough_work> ;)[03:13:55] <silverpower> haha.[03:14:15] <silverpower> So what's missing for PPC support that we're aware of?[03:14:52] <silverpower> adb_hid is the most obvious one, as it's a requirement for OldWorld and pre-Alubook-era laptops.[03:15:34] <silverpower> Do we have a rage128 driver? I somehow doubt it.[03:17:48] <silverpower> (the other three NewWorld cases being covered - we have radeon, nvidia and IIRC mach64.)[03:20:37] <umccullough_work> bye bye[03:20:49] <silverpower> see ya.[03:22:25] <umccullough_work> sorry i was short - gotta head out :)[03:22:32] <umccullough_work> i'll prolly be back on tonight[03:22:49] <kokito> silverpower, http://www.bebits.com/app/4458[03:23:20] <umccullough_work> SOURCE NOT AVAILABLE ;)[03:23:25] <kokito> ouch![03:23:26] <umccullough_work> can be tested though[03:23:37] *** umccullough_work has quit IRC[03:24:10] <silverpower> um, it's for Intel, kokito, so it's totally, utterly useless in this case.[03:24:17] *** gotaku has quit IRC[03:24:39] <silverpower> Not, I think, that we can even anywhere *near* the desktop last I checked.[03:26:32] *** steffen_f_ has quit IRC[03:27:31] <CIA-17> bonefish * r20604 /haiku/trunk/ (125 files in 125 dirs):[03:27:31] <CIA-17> Removed the obsolete second argument ("relpath") of the Addon rule and[03:27:31] <CIA-17> shuffled "isExecutable" to the end. The new order favors the common use[03:27:31] <CIA-17> cases. Adjusted all Addon invocations and while at it also removed[03:27:31] <CIA-17> separate LinkAgainst invocations.[03:27:43] <kokito> silverpower, PPC?[03:27:59] <silverpower> Yep.[03:28:06] <silverpower> That's the entire point of the exercise.[03:28:54] <kokito> sorry, was obviously not fully aware of what you were trying to do silverpower :)[03:29:04] <silverpower> ah, s'okay.[03:29:41] *** M_199 has joined #haiku[03:31:52] *** M199 has quit IRC[03:39:39] *** slaad has quit IRC[03:42:50] <CIA-17> bonefish * r20605 /haiku/trunk/ (16 files in 16 dirs):[03:42:50] <CIA-17> Added an "isExecutable" parameter to the Translator rule. All[03:42:50] <CIA-17> translators pass "true" (was used before), but I suppose most of them[03:42:50] <CIA-17> don't really need it.[03:43:05] *** steffen_f has quit IRC[03:45:58] *** eNGIMa has joined #haiku[03:47:58] *** emitrax_ has quit IRC[03:52:08] <CHodapp> hmmmmm...[04:02:04] *** aldeck has quit IRC[04:06:03] *** absabs has joined #haiku[04:30:24] *** Issac-S has joined #haiku[04:31:10] *** issac_ has joined #haiku[04:31:22] *** issac_ has quit IRC[04:40:44] *** LeandroLuiz[OFF] has quit IRC[04:44:25] *** gravy has joined #Haiku[04:44:25] *** gravy_ has quit IRC[04:44:30] <geist> yawn[04:44:31] <geist> sup folks[04:46:40] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[04:47:14] <kokito> howdy geist[04:55:56] *** shackan has quit IRC[04:58:39] *** mmadia has quit IRC[05:00:13] *** shackan has joined #haiku[05:10:41] <silverpower> Build's going just fine so far.[05:17:40] <geist> oh good[05:17:55] <geist> as far asi can tell the linkhack stuff is unnecessary for gcc 4.x[05:18:08] <geist> will have to debug it[05:32:03] *** Issac-S has quit IRC[05:41:17] <silverpower> Is there a mechanism that could be used to disable linkhack for ppc or even the general gcc4 case?[05:42:02] <silverpower> It'd be nice to be able to svn update without hosing my fixed kernel/Jamfile.[05:47:14] <geist> silverpower: i'm gonna work on that, but I want a real solution[05:47:23] <geist> and anyway, svn updaing shouldn't hose your jamfile[05:47:37] <geist> that's the point of source control, you can have changes and use it to merge the changes with others[05:47:56] <geist> i always have a bunch of start scripts and whatnot with modifications, doesn't make any difference[05:48:48] <silverpower> Oh, I guess I thought it'd act like Gentoo's emerge --sync in that that destroys any modifications to the tree.[05:49:17] <silverpower> Even though I probably should know better. :)[05:52:38] <silverpower> how can I tell just how far I'm into the build?[05:54:09] <silverpower> right now, it's doing printer drivers, I think (C++ generated/objects/haiku/ppc/release/add-ons/print/drivers/shared/libprint/PrintProcess.o).[05:54:19] <silverpower> So I'm a tad curious about an ETA.[05:59:06] <geist> depends on how fast the machine is[05:59:12] <geist> generally takes around 10 minutes or so on mine[05:59:18] <geist> 1.8P4[05:59:23] <silverpower> G3/500 here.[05:59:28] <silverpower> I know, I know.[05:59:34] <geist> oh, dunno then. probably 30 minutes or so[06:00:43] <silverpower> It's been going for a bit less than 3 hours at this point...[06:01:13] <silverpower> 5700th target according to jam.[06:01:30] * DeadYak tries to figure out how to build ON[06:09:37] <geist> oh wow[06:09:40] <geist> that's crazy[06:09:55] <geist> seriously takes like 10 minutes on linux running on parallels on my MBP[06:10:29] <DeadYak> geist: is that one C2D or Core?[06:10:59] <geist> C2D[06:11:05] <DeadYak> ah[06:11:07] <geist> single threaded though, since it's in parallels[06:11:08] <DeadYak> vs a g3 500, no wonder[06:11:17] <geist> yeah, but damn[06:11:19] <DeadYak> parallels only uses one core?[06:11:22] <geist> yeah[06:11:33] <DeadYak> yeah but I mean, consider that the G3 had a crappy FSB too :)[06:11:53] <DeadYak> not exactly ideal for compiling :)[06:13:41] <silverpower> yeah, 100FSB laptop SDR with 332 timings...[06:22:10] *** rcjsuen has quit IRC[06:23:13] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[06:23:13] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[06:25:14] *** eNGIMa has quit IRC[06:28:14] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[06:28:28] *** mmu_man has joined #haiku[06:28:28] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mmu_man[06:32:05] *** absabs has quit IRC[06:32:46] *** absabs has joined #haiku[06:35:49] *** stargater_ has joined #haiku[06:44:22] *** stargater has quit IRC[06:45:42] *** Sloar has joined #haiku[06:51:26] <geist> just did a clean build on my P4 1.8. 22 minutes[06:51:33] <geist> of course thats 2.95.3, x86[06:51:36] <geist> so not a totally fair comparison[06:53:10] <silverpower> It's generating the image, but I'm not sure what it's doing atm.[06:55:06] <silverpower> there seem to be some errors and the process has more or less stalled from what I can tell.[06:55:36] <silverpower> remove_cached_device_blocks(3, 1)[06:55:36] <silverpower> *** remove_cached_dev: block 2062 has lock = 1, flags 0x0! ce @ 0x1006f768[06:55:36] <silverpower> *** remove_cached_dev: block 2063 has lock = 1, flags 0x0! ce @ 0x1006fc38[06:55:36] <silverpower> *** remove_cached_dev: block 2127 has lock = 1, flags 0x0! ce @ 0x10078b90[06:55:36] <silverpower> *** remove_cached_dev: block 2128 has lock = 1, flags 0x0! ce @ 0x10079060[06:56:05] <silverpower> *** remove_cached_dev: block 2192 has lock = 1, flags 0x0! ce @ 0x100821b8[06:56:06] <silverpower> *** remove_cached_dev: block 2193 has lock = 1, flags 0x0! ce @ 0x10082688[06:56:06] <silverpower> *** remove_cached_dev: block 2257 has lock = 1, flags 0x0! ce @ 0x1008b5e0[06:56:06] <silverpower> *** remove_cached_dev: block 2258 has lock = 1, flags 0x0! ce @ 0x1008bab0[06:56:06] <silverpower> *** remove_cached_dev: block 65536 has lock = 1, flags 0x0! ce @ 0x10066340[06:56:19] <silverpower> *** remove_cached_dev: block 65537 has lock = 1, flags 0x0! ce @ 0x10066810[06:56:20] <silverpower> ** release_block asked to find 3 but it's not here[06:56:58] *** GreyGhost-Ubuntu has joined #haiku[07:01:02] <silverpower> does bfs_shell normally take up a lot of CPU and run for (relatively) quite a while?[07:05:49] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> haiku has wget ? cool :)[07:06:01] *** mmu_man has quit IRC[07:06:19] <kokito> GreyGhost-Ubuntu, and it works :)[07:07:14] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> cool.. :)[07:08:06] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> kokito ,is anything that is standard C / C++ supposed to compile and work under Haiku or will it require massive amounts of modification ..[07:08:35] * kokito is afraid that GreyGhost-Ubuntu is asking the wrong guy :)[07:08:52] <kokito> sorry GreyGhost-Ubuntu: I don't have a clue; I am not a developer.[07:08:59] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> hehe ok :) i'll try myself .. or bug someone else later ;)[07:09:25] <aldeck> should work depending on what you call standard[07:09:29] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> kokito ,np .. i'm not a dev either ..i can hardly code.. thats why that was the first question i asked.. whether it would be easy or hell ;)[07:09:32] <geist> silverpower: no, I'm pretty sure that's the endian problems with the bfs shell[07:10:11] <silverpower> geist, yeah, just tried it again and it exhibited the same exact behavior.[07:10:16] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> aldeck , more like something that is pretty crossplatform works on linux / windows.. and has dependencies already ported to BeOS ?[07:11:15] <geist> ugh, I have problems building it on x86-64 linux[07:11:35] <geist> seems that the build process for bfs_shell uses the cross compiler's headers[07:11:39] <geist> which doesn't seem right at all[07:11:45] <silverpower> I've got gdb built now, though, so perhaps if you'll ping me tomorrow maybe I can get you something useful. Right now I'm simply too tired.[07:12:14] <silverpower> ...unless you've already started to puzzle it out. :)[07:12:26] <geist> probably wont[07:12:33] <geist> I have no real interest in digging through that[07:12:47] <geist> since you can always cross build ppc builds from x86 boxes[07:13:45] <silverpower> ick. oh, well, I can probably set up a Linux VM on the Wintendo for the job, it won't take as long.[07:13:49] *** silverpower is now known as silver|zzz[07:15:01] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> silver|zzz ,nigt[07:17:11] <aldeck> silver|zzz: you should cross build, it's your only viable option :)[07:19:49] *** aldeck has quit IRC[07:24:06] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> viewcvs is a lot faster than websvn ..[07:24:08] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[07:25:13] <Begasus> g'morning peeps[07:27:45] <geist> god, i can't figure out how to change anything with jam[07:29:34] *** GreyGhost-Ubuntu has left #haiku[07:34:55] *** PascalR has joined #haiku[07:43:12] <kokito> morning Begasus[07:43:31] <Begasus> hi kokito[07:43:52] <kokito> long time no talk Begasus :)[07:44:04] <Begasus> indeed kokito[07:44:27] <Begasus> the head hasn't been up to much talk lately :s[07:44:38] <kokito> the head?[07:45:51] <Begasus> mind* :)[07:46:06] <kokito> your?[07:46:56] <Begasus> yes .. with all the recent stuff that is going on ...[07:47:25] <kokito> yeah, a bit overwhelming...[07:47:26] <Begasus> it's enough to get one down[07:48:07] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[07:48:19] <geist> oh I give up. this just isn't gonna happen[07:56:36] <kokito> take it easy geist :)[07:58:30] <geist> the build is totally broken for x86-64 hosts[07:58:42] <geist> far too much stuff assumes knowledge about the host[07:58:47] <geist> in a pretty fundamental way[08:08:50] *** PascalR has quit IRC[08:18:11] *** ekdahl has joined #haiku[08:38:23] *** MrWGW- has joined #haiku[08:56:59] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[08:59:43] *** MrWGW- has left #haiku[09:00:39] <JonathanThompson> Hi guys[09:01:18] * JonathanThompson lobs a Zeta CD at Teknomancer in greeting[09:01:29] <Teknomancer> hey JonathanThompson :)[09:01:45] <Teknomancer> the 1.5 CD print looks really stylish[09:01:52] <Teknomancer> too bad they didn't give me a copy :([09:01:59] <Teknomancer> tho its installed in my laptop[09:02:00] <JonathanThompson> Nothing like having a personal trainer to put you through your paces to make you quite tired by midnight local-time :P[09:02:25] <JonathanThompson> I think it's just become a collectgor's item, Teknomancer:PPP[09:02:49] <Teknomancer> yeah but still looks really cool :) Me and Catalin were watching it quite a while :))[09:03:01] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson btw u're on orkut :P[09:03:03] <Teknomancer> i added u[09:03:16] <JonathanThompson> Yes, though I've not thought about Orkut much.[09:03:23] <JonathanThompson> I guess I'm just not that kind of guy :PPP[09:03:53] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson well i just joined 2 days ago to find my school friends :S[09:03:58] <Teknomancer> been over 9 years since i saw any of them[09:04:08] <Teknomancer> unfortunately they use only orkut , pffft[09:04:18] <JonathanThompson> I must admit, I had very few school friends to worry about, and I lost track of all of them a long time ago.[09:04:24] <JonathanThompson> Or almost all.[09:04:32] <JonathanThompson> Granted, I've also been out of school much longer.[09:05:26] <JonathanThompson> And I've also moved to almost as far away in the US from where I attended school as possible without leaving the continent: I'd have to move to Alaska to get farther away without leaving the continent.[09:05:37] <Teknomancer> ah well many of my school friends are in US now :P[09:05:57] * JonathanThompson wonders how many of them he'll see wandering around where he is[09:06:31] <JonathanThompson> Imagine if I saw Indian geeks and I asked them "Hey, you know someone that goes by the username of Teknomancer???"[09:06:40] <Teknomancer> lol :))[09:07:05] <JonathanThompson> I've got one for my current boss, and at least one more in the local office I'm working in :)[09:07:21] <Teknomancer> yeah Ramesh.[09:08:07] <JonathanThompson> If I'm not mistaken, I'm working with a Russian, a Pole, a couple Indians, a German, and I don't know what else besides myself at that local office alone.[09:08:37] <JonathanThompson> And here I am, I have a hard time understanding people's speech due to audio processing issues in the best of conditions with the same sort of accent I have :P[09:09:11] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson haha[09:09:15] <JonathanThompson> Oh, and the Russian is an artist in the usage of 4-letter words :P[09:09:31] <Teknomancer> well some indians try to talk with an american accent which i personally hate doing...[09:09:46] <JonathanThompson> I don't care what accent is used, as long as I can understand.[09:10:17] <Teknomancer> yeah but indians pretending to talk like americans pisses me off[09:10:19] <JonathanThompson> Sadly, I suspect the same reason I often can't always clearly understand others is the same reason they may not be able to understand what I'm pronouncing.[09:11:03] <JonathanThompson> Well, it seems Ramesh speaks with what I've experience as typical Indian inflections that are more indicative of not being born/raised in the US.[09:11:30] <JonathanThompson> It's not only the words you say, but the notes you use that often carry meaning as to what is meant.[09:11:34] <Teknomancer> ah that's good :P Indian english is a more brutal pronounciation of english than american[09:11:43] *** BNickName has joined #haiku[09:11:49] <Teknomancer> hey b3w_[09:11:52] <Teknomancer> BNickName[09:12:20] * JonathanThompson laughs at the lack of mind-reading that tab completion does, and remembers many times it has bitten him[09:12:38] <JonathanThompson> Be very careful using private messages with autocompletion :PPPP[09:12:43] <Teknomancer> yeah especially with impatient fingers :)[09:12:46] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson LOL yeah[09:12:51] <Teknomancer> that's why i prefer using the Mouse :)[09:12:54] <Teknomancer> right-click Query[09:14:06] <JonathanThompson> The first week at work has been... entertaining in witnessing how much of a mess can be caused attempting to configure multiple boxes, two being linux boxes, two systems (XP and one of the linux boxes) being previously used.[09:15:03] <JonathanThompson> One of my tasks today involved me reboxing the new linux box and sending it back to someone in the IT department to fix, since it refused to deal properly with the network and stand up and be pinged, and refused to let anyone log on :P[09:15:47] <Teknomancer> Ah[09:15:50] <Teknomancer> sec phone[09:15:53] <JonathanThompson> Oh, and typical HP keyboards have no heft to them.[09:15:58] <JonathanThompson> Time is up![09:19:05] <Teknomancer> ugggh, mom bugging me to eat :( pffffffffft.[09:20:07] <JonathanThompson> Tell her there are starving children in the US you're donating your food to, and see what she says :P[09:22:41] *** _konrad has joined #haiku[09:28:33] <JonathanThompson> Greetings, _konrad[09:29:57] <Begasus> howdy JonathanThompson ;)[09:30:00] <Begasus> hi _konrad[09:30:14] * JonathanThompson runs in fright, since there's a Begasus in plain human sight[09:30:28] *** mazon is now known as Mazon[09:30:44] * JonathanThompson trips over his own feet, and lands in a pile <PLOP!> that's not too neat[09:30:45] <Begasus> just the digital copy of me JonathanThompson ;)[09:30:57] <JonathanThompson> Ah, you're Memorex, then :)[09:32:32] <_konrad> JonathanThompson Begasus hello[09:36:42] <JonathanThompson> There's one thing that I found funny on a Yahoo! computer, Teknomancer: it was setup with the Google search bar in IE :P[09:38:23] *** _konrad has quit IRC[09:41:30] <Teknomancer> JonathanThompson LOL[09:42:21] <JonathanThompson> Well, there is a Google office perhaps about 10 miles away from the small Yahoo! office I'm working at.... who knows what to make of it :P[09:43:10] <Teknomancer> paper rockets with company secrets :P[09:43:43] <JonathanThompson> I have sufficient evidence to suggest I need to learn Ruby.[09:44:09] <arachnist> ruby is nice, too bad ruby threads suck[09:44:26] <BNickName> JonathanThompson you can learn ruby in 5 minutes :P[09:44:37] <JonathanThompson> From what I've read thus far, Ruby is a much more readable replacement for Perl for handling strings :)[09:44:58] <JonathanThompson> I'm not worried about learning it, BNickName... it's the libraries that will take an unknown amount of time.[09:45:06] <JonathanThompson> The syntax thus far looks quite simple./[09:45:23] <JonathanThompson> Seems a little bit like Pascal for syntaz.[09:46:00] <BNickName> Most of the time the libraries are as intuitive as the core[09:46:01] *** firefox has joined #Haiku[09:46:19] *** firefox has left #Haiku[09:46:40] <JonathanThompson> I was looking at string today, and concluded that some of the methods that are supported are there purely because they thought they'd be a neat trick :P[09:46:45] *** gotaku has joined #haiku[09:47:39] <BNickName> better to have some excess than not enough, std::string doesn't even have a case insensitive compare[09:47:54] <JonathanThompson> It does have some silly limitations, true.[09:48:23] <JonathanThompson> Though I wonder if part of that is due to the fact that wide characters are hard to decipher how to do a lowercase/uppercase conversion.[09:48:29] <JonathanThompson> And are very language-dependent.[09:49:18] *** Begasus has quit IRC[09:49:24] <BNickName> dunno, you can std::transform(str.begin(), str.end(), tolower).compare(....[09:49:39] <BNickName> so they can as well put that in a icompare[09:50:01] <JonathanThompson> How do you handle capitalization of Kanji? :)[09:50:31] <BNickName> as there are no capitalizations, you don't :P[09:51:01] <JonathanThompson> And yet, from reading the brief history of Ruby, it was written by Japanese...[09:51:02] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[09:51:05] <JonathanThompson> <shrug>[09:51:41] <BNickName> yes, but it doesn't support Japanese or any other unicode language well[09:52:00] <Begasus> 'lo BNickName[09:52:05] <BNickName> Begasus yo[09:52:06] <JonathanThompson> While by comparison, C++ std::string/wstring does.[09:52:18] <JonathanThompson> Or at least better than old C.[09:52:50] <BNickName> when you use utf8, most things work[09:53:16] <JonathanThompson> True, though std::wstring works well for UTF16.[09:55:28] <BNickName> but doesn't provide conversions from and to utf8 though[09:56:03] <JonathanThompson> IIRC UTF8 basically came after STL was created.[09:56:21] <JonathanThompson> Perhaps in a future update, that'll be added as part of the standard.[09:57:20] *** tqh has joined #haiku[09:57:35] <BNickName> one of the things I like a lot in ruby is that it is so easy to import native methods though[09:57:59] <BNickName> you just give the library name and function def[09:58:30] <BNickName> so I always just import unicode conversion routines[10:08:24] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[10:11:03] *** tqh2 has joined #haiku[10:11:38] *** tqh has quit IRC[10:13:51] *** jiuda_D`arkness has joined #haiku[10:14:56] *** BNickName has quit IRC[10:15:23] *** emitrax has joined #haiku[10:17:01] *** tqh2 has quit IRC[10:17:25] *** stargater_ is now known as stargater[10:17:51] <stargater> moin[10:18:12] <gotaku> moring.[10:18:53] <stargater> hi gotaku[10:19:25] <gotaku> So, it turns out Zeta never had a license for the Be source code.[10:19:44] <stargater> it looks so[10:21:10] *** tqh has joined #haiku[10:24:16] <emitrax> good morning[10:26:21] <jiuda_D`arkness> hi emitrax[10:26:54] <emitrax> hi jiuda[10:27:20] <jiuda_D`arkness> you remember me?[10:27:24] <jiuda_D`arkness> :D[10:27:50] <emitrax> itbug ?[10:27:59] <jiuda_D`arkness> yes[10:28:18] <emitrax> then yes ;)[10:28:35] <jiuda_D`arkness> lol[10:30:16] <jiuda_D`arkness> emitrax : you come in PM ?[10:31:12] <emitrax> yep[10:37:07] *** lorglas has joined #haiku[10:37:44] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[10:39:50] <stargater> ho ho haiku discutate in a syllable forum :-( http://www.syllable.org/discussion.php?id=987[10:39:55] <stargater> read the commints[10:40:52] <jiuda_D`arkness> lol[10:50:39] <Teknomancer> syllable looks pretty sleek more like skyos[10:52:51] <stargater> Teknomancer, syllable habe a nice ide = sIDE , its look a littel bit as BeIDE[10:53:00] <Teknomancer> stargater any screenshots of it?[10:53:14] <stargater> no[10:54:23] <stargater> i have look in the sIDE code, but im not sure to make it für haiku native[10:54:26] <Teknomancer> http://www.liqwyd.com/screenshots/LayoutEditor_sIDE.png[10:54:43] <Teknomancer> stargater for haiku a haiku native one would be best, porting ide's is not a good idea[10:55:47] <arachnist> Teknomancer: these icons look a little redhatish ;)[10:55:59] <stargater> Teknomancer, true but syllable is c++ and looks like a BeAPI[10:55:59] <Teknomancer> arachnist iirc they are those free icons[10:56:20] <stargater> arachnist, the new syllable used Tango-Icons[10:56:26] <Teknomancer> yeah Tango[10:56:40] <stargater> and thats is the best what syllable can do[10:56:43] *** lorglas has quit IRC[10:57:00] <stargater> Tango is a good icons project[10:57:42] <arachnist> well, imo tango icons are ugly[10:57:43] <Teknomancer> ours looks better ;)[10:58:31] <arachnist> i like these |> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/show.php?content=52362[10:58:32] <Teknomancer> and more like good 'ol beos[10:59:10] <stargater> ohah no arachnist[10:59:28] <stargater> the best icons is stipi relead beos icons :-)[10:59:54] <Teknomancer> yeah[11:00:09] <Teknomancer> bbiab[11:00:15] <stargater> i think some opensource icons or gnome icons whas insperatet from beos icons[11:01:24] *** Kernel86 has joined #Haiku[11:08:12] *** tqh has quit IRC[11:08:38] *** kr1stof has left #haiku[11:11:36] *** PulkoMandy has joined #haiku[11:14:50] *** Begasus has quit IRC[11:15:12] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[11:23:22] *** kokito has quit IRC[11:29:26] *** tqh has joined #haiku[11:33:25] *** cizra has joined #haiku[11:33:32] <cizra> Hello[11:33:46] <cizra> IIRC Haiku's network didn't support IPv6, right?[11:34:03] *** gotaku has quit IRC[11:35:22] <tqh> no it doesn't[11:37:23] <cizra> It's just not implemented yet, right? The future plans include supporting it, right?[11:39:21] <tqh> I think it is, but I'm just a bystander[11:39:27] <cizra> Oh, I found it in GSoC as a big task.[11:42:00] *** cizra has left #haiku[11:42:31] *** TheDave has joined #haiku[11:42:34] <TheDave> o/[11:44:13] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[11:48:11] *** jiuda_D`arkness has quit IRC[11:49:36] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[11:50:54] *** tqh has quit IRC[11:51:53] *** mats has quit IRC[11:53:03] *** Sil2100 has joined #haiku[11:53:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[11:54:19] *** chestur has joined #haiku[11:55:36] *** chestur is now known as nocc[11:56:32] *** nocc has left #haiku[11:57:38] *** genkie has joined #haiku[11:58:08] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[11:59:23] *** GreyGhost-Ubuntu has joined #haiku[12:01:19] *** tqh has joined #haiku[12:05:32] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> yay !!! finished checkout :)[12:07:28] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[12:07:47] *** tombhad-AC has joined #haiku[12:11:26] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> any one around who can help me with compilation?[12:13:35] <dr_evil> wgats the problem?[12:13:39] *** TTRanger has quit IRC[12:14:00] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> trying to compile the jam in buildtools .. and get an error.. one sec..[12:15:35] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> http://rafb.net/p/QD4cKf14.html dr_evil ,that[12:16:12] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> i simply used make in a clean checkout.. Ubuntu 6.10[12:17:02] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> dr_evil , do i need something called "yacc" ?[12:17:17] <dr_evil> yes, bison/yacc[12:17:49] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> and should i just apt-get them or are there special Haiku versions of those ?[12:18:41] *** TTRanger has joined #Haiku[12:19:04] <dr_evil> just get them[12:19:15] <TTRanger> mornin' dr_evil[12:19:41] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> dr_evil , ok thanks :)[12:19:47] <dr_evil> read the readme GreyGhost-Ubuntu http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/haiku/haiku/trunk/ReadMe.cross-compile?rev=20360&view=markup[12:20:26] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> dr_evil ,ok thanks : .. i was following the tutorails on the main site.. which doesnt mention any of them ;)[12:20:36] <dr_evil> I think you also need texinfo package to compile gcc[12:21:13] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> ok thanks[12:21:20] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC[12:21:38] *** tombhad-AC has quit IRC[12:21:55] *** tombhadAC has joined #haiku[12:22:37] *** stargater has quit IRC[12:26:57] *** dos4gw has joined #haiku[12:30:15] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> dr_evil , i shouldn't be using gcc 4 yet right?[12:32:08] *** NeutronWrangler has joined #haiku[12:33:53] <dos4gw> you can use it, if you don't want to run any r5 applications[12:34:46] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> oh k ..[12:35:13] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> dos4gw ,but i believe that if i later change ./configure .. i can still use gcc 4 ?[12:36:16] <dos4gw> yes you can switch[12:36:37] *** dos4gw is now known as ghost[12:36:42] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[12:36:45] *** ghost is now known as dr_evil[12:36:47] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[12:36:48] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> ghost ,thanks :)[12:36:50] *** petterhj- has joined #haiku[12:36:51] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> O_o[12:37:01] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> i didnt know u were dr_evil[12:37:04] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> dr_evil ,thanks :)[12:37:25] <dr_evil> ok, connection problem here[12:41:04] *** NeutronWrangler has quit IRC[12:44:14] *** steffen_f has joined #haiku[12:46:22] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> one more error :( /bin/sh: autoheader: not found[12:46:31] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> what is autoheader suposed to be?[12:47:57] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> ahh.. autoconf :([12:48:59] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> i expected the Ubuntu guys to put it in their build essential package :( .. my bad ..[12:50:47] <TheDave> has anything been done to get digital output from the intel extreme driver?[12:50:58] <TheDave> read: laptop displays :)[12:52:57] *** Begasus has quit IRC[12:53:54] *** petterhj has quit IRC[12:55:11] <dr_evil> TheDave does a bug report exist for that issue?[12:55:48] <TheDave> tbh i have no idea, but i presume there is[12:56:49] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[12:57:50] <TheDave> huh, interesting. there isn't[12:58:48] <TheDave> time to file a bug then :)[13:07:06] *** Euver has joined #haiku[13:07:53] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[13:09:56] *** tqh has quit IRC[13:11:27] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[13:16:24] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[13:16:45] *** petterhj- has quit IRC[13:19:09] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> what does -q do in jam -q haiku-image ?[13:19:16] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> just cunrious ;)[13:19:26] <dr_evil> quit at first error[13:19:55] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> oh k :)[13:20:04] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> hmm .. nope single P4 here :([13:20:29] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> thanks for all the help .. now compiling haiku :)[13:24:14] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> just one more stupid question .. what did the compiler do when it shows ...patience... ?[13:24:29] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> just outa curiosity again ;)[13:24:58] <dr_evil> i think thats when jam is reading the whole tree to analyze dependencies[13:25:20] *** doppeljot has joined #haiku[13:25:26] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> ahh .. ok .. thanks again :)[13:26:23] <Fanskapet> DaaT: http://users.sidvicious.se/fanskapet/images/macbook/DSC00128.JPG[13:26:26] <Fanskapet> :)[13:27:17] *** TTRanger has quit IRC[13:27:22] *** doppeljot has left #haiku[13:27:27] <DaaT> Fanskapet, cool[13:27:41] *** TTRanger has joined #Haiku[13:29:35] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> bbl .. tea time ..[13:30:02] <Fanskapet> DaaT: indeed loves it :P[13:30:09] <Fanskapet> osx is very comfy[13:30:31] <DaaT> :)[13:30:32] <Fanskapet> nice with a bit of BeOS feeling regarding installation of applications etc :P[13:30:36] <Fanskapet> just drag 'n drop one file :P[13:30:46] *** Lelldorin1 has left #haiku[13:30:49] <Fanskapet> the way it should be :P[13:31:35] <DaaT> definitely[13:33:11] <DaaT> Fanskapet, what have you been playing on the Wii?[13:33:25] <Fanskapet> hehe mostly ssx :P[13:33:31] <Fanskapet> tried it yet?[13:33:34] <DaaT> nope, haven't[13:33:41] <Fanskapet> okok[13:33:46] <DaaT> bought Smooth Moves but only played it 10 mns still[13:33:55] <Fanskapet> have had some thoughts of modding the wii but i want homebrew support :/[13:34:07] <Fanskapet> would be great to begin porting stuff to it[13:34:08] <DaaT> ahh[13:34:26] <Fanskapet> DOSBox would suit the wii perfectly :)[13:34:39] <DaaT> and scummvm[13:34:40] <Fanskapet> imagine a mouse driver supporting the wii-mote :)[13:34:46] <Fanskapet> ahh yeah scummvm too[13:36:08] *** Mazon is now known as mazon[13:36:40] <Fanskapet> dosbox is in my mind though :)[13:37:15] <DaaT> :)[13:37:46] <Fanskapet> but simon the sorcerer with the wii mote would be nice too :)[13:37:51] <DaaT> :)[13:39:04] *** mazon is now known as Mazon[13:39:36] <Fanskapet> hmm looks to be a big mess of the yT /licence issue :D[13:39:52] *** petterhj has joined #haiku[13:42:23] <Fanskapet> pretty stupied done by yT if it turns out they didn't have any licens[13:42:30] <DaaT> yes[13:42:49] *** rcjsuen has joined #haiku[13:42:53] <Fanskapet> ahh Adium IM is the great :P[13:43:04] <Fanskapet> gotta save these sound effects for my linux laptop aswell :P[13:43:11] <Fanskapet> sounds like a dying duck or something :P[13:43:18] <DaaT> :)[13:43:26] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[13:45:46] <Fanskapet> hmm anyone know if haiku works in paralell?[13:47:02] <gravy> seems to[13:47:03] <gravy> http://haiku-os.org/documents/dev/how_to_get_haiku_to_work_in_parallels[13:47:25] <GreyGhost-Ubuntu> Fanskapet ,i've read a tutorial bout it somewhere..[13:47:44] <gravy> but I have never done it :)[13:51:15] <Fanskapet> ahh nice[13:56:34] *** tqh has joined #haiku[13:57:04] <tqh> Hmm, I couldn't get auich working from build factory, but when I built it myself it's working fine[13:57:16] <tqh> with a Be IDE proj[14:00:47] *** petterhj- has joined #haiku[14:03:04] *** sarcas_ has joined #haiku[14:03:23] *** sarcas has joined #haiku[14:03:43] *** genkie has quit IRC[14:06:55] *** petterhj- has quit IRC[14:07:03] *** petterhj- has joined #haiku[14:08:17] *** Euver has quit IRC[14:08:35] *** Kernel86 has joined #Haiku[14:10:17] *** stargater has joined #haiku[14:13:07] <stargater> re[14:14:42] *** petterhj has quit IRC[14:28:22] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[14:34:56] *** sarcas has quit IRC[14:40:55] *** GreyGhost-Ubuntu has left #haiku[14:44:57] *** tqh has quit IRC[14:46:58] *** Karina` has quit IRC[14:50:44] *** ul1984 has joined #haiku[14:59:18] *** gotaku has joined #haiku[15:00:44] *** TheDave has quit IRC[15:01:29] *** _TomB has quit IRC[15:07:21] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[15:11:24] *** genkie has joined #haiku[15:14:56] *** Kernel86 has joined #Haiku[15:22:16] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[15:22:25] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[15:33:20] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[15:33:48] *** Kernel86 has joined #Haiku[15:34:02] *** Pulko_Mandy has joined #haiku[15:40:01] <stargater> cu[15:40:04] *** stargater has quit IRC[15:40:48] *** gotaku has quit IRC[15:41:52] *** PulkoMandy has quit IRC[15:51:01] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[15:56:21] *** tqh has joined #haiku[15:56:45] *** paulojbe has joined #haiku[16:00:47] *** paulojbe has left #haiku[16:01:20] *** tqh has quit IRC[16:10:36] *** tqh has joined #haiku[16:10:49] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[16:12:00] <_hugo> plop[16:12:16] <aldeck> plip[16:12:49] *** b3w_ is now known as b3w[16:13:11] <aldeck> i got python bindings runnig nice now (on my working copy though)[16:13:43] <_hugo> nice to hear :-)[16:14:17] <aldeck> i just sent patches to review on trac[16:14:30] <_hugo> what is the ticket?[16:14:37] <aldeck> 2sec[16:15:34] <aldeck> http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1140 and http://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/1143[16:16:00] *** burnhamd has joined #haiku[16:16:25] <burnhamd> is it possible to discuss phos in this room?[16:16:40] <_hugo> burnhamd: this channel is about haiku[16:17:03] *** emitrax_ has joined #haiku[16:17:14] <burnhamd> ok i shall keep on topic[16:17:17] <JonathanThompson> It doubles as a room for the discussion of cat-stretching techniques in a pinch :)[16:17:49] <tqh> oh, what is the current status on that :)[16:18:16] <JonathanThompson> Purrvana: stretch the cat out just right, get a nice satisfied "Meow" and a purring, sleepy cat :P[16:18:25] <_hugo> aldeck: the BStatusBar one is strange[16:18:37] <aldeck> _hugo: yepa[16:19:01] <_hugo> ah, no it isnt. they changed the signature[16:19:08] <_hugo> but yeah, extern "C" is missing[16:19:20] <tqh> ah[16:19:37] <aldeck> _hugo: underscore magic, a bit lost there :)[16:20:00] <burnhamd> haiku has its own bootloader right?[16:20:04] <_hugo> well, since it isnt currently defined with extern "C", the C+ compiler is mangling the name to consider the arguments[16:20:18] <_hugo> but in fact it is defined like that to prevent that[16:20:31] <_hugo> axel should fix it soon[16:20:36] <_hugo> burnhamd: yes[16:20:39] <aldeck> _hugo: ok[16:21:04] *** BGA has joined #haiku[16:21:04] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o BGA[16:21:30] <burnhamd> can this bootloader run other things besides haiku such as PE of beos 4?[16:22:06] <aldeck> burnhamd: no afaik[16:22:27] <BGA> Which bootloader?[16:22:47] <aldeck> BGA: haiku's[16:23:18] *** fyysik has joined #haiku[16:23:54] <BGA> aldeck: Yes, it can boot anything as long as what it is boot provides its own stage2 bootloader.[16:24:09] <BGA> it is booting[16:24:34] <aldeck> BGA: hmm, ok[16:24:58] <BGA> Although right now we still do not have a bootman-like application to configure the bootloader.[16:25:31] <burnhamd> ah ok[16:25:42] <burnhamd> anyone seen looncraz lately?[16:26:11] *** BGA has quit IRC[16:30:37] <aldeck> anyone knows what is missing/when will the wiki be back online? it's been months[16:32:37] *** emitrax has quit IRC[16:34:47] *** AtomicFlamingHai has joined #Haiku[16:35:08] <AtomicFlamingHai> Weird power disruption[16:35:21] <AtomicFlamingHai> <--JonathanThompson[16:37:47] *** JonathanThompson has quit IRC[16:37:48] *** AtomicFlamingHai is now known as JonathanThompson[16:38:28] *** oco has quit IRC[16:38:49] *** DaaT has quit IRC[16:38:59] *** ekdahl has left #haiku[16:40:10] *** Teknomancer has joined #haiku[16:48:51] *** burnhamd has quit IRC[16:53:36] <fyysik> seen DaaT[16:54:00] <fyysik> "he's contacting his/her lawyer" - too politically correct, heh[16:54:17] *** shackan has quit IRC[16:54:54] *** burnhamd has joined #haiku[16:56:44] *** petterhj- is now known as petterhj[16:59:50] *** burnhamd has left #haiku[17:03:05] *** kokito has joined #haiku[17:08:56] *** fyysik has quit IRC[17:16:03] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[17:18:41] *** fyysik has joined #haiku[17:25:20] *** Gog123 has joined #haiku[17:25:21] <Gog123> hi[17:25:30] *** TLF has joined #haiku[17:28:00] *** kr1stof has joined #haiku[17:31:24] *** GreyGhost has joined #haiku[17:32:28] *** Ingenu has joined #Haiku[17:32:38] * kr1stof is listening to Inside Out by God Module from Viscera Position: 00:22/04:30 Bitrate: 128kbps Rating: [✩✩✩✩✩][17:33:02] *** genkie has quit IRC[17:35:45] *** sarcas has joined #haiku[17:39:27] *** dr_evil has quit IRC[17:39:32] *** dr_evil has joined #haiku[17:41:26] *** fyysik has quit IRC[17:44:06] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dr_evil[17:46:50] *** tqh has quit IRC[17:51:13] *** Gog123 has quit IRC[17:52:40] *** kokito has quit IRC[17:56:06] *** tqh has joined #haiku[17:57:41] *** hapo has joined #haiku[17:57:54] <hapo> it's been a while since I last time thought about haiku...[17:58:10] <hapo> does haiku currently have a networking stack?[17:58:15] <_hugo> yes[17:58:41] <hapo> are there networking apps that work?[17:58:46] <MrSunshine> and hugo is coding on it! .. all praise hugo! :)[17:58:47] <hapo> it realtek 8139 supported?[17:58:56] <hapo> *is[17:58:58] <_hugo> there are, and yes realtek 8139 is supported[17:59:03] <MrSunshine> 8139 is one of the cards that works best in beos atleast :)[17:59:04] <_hugo> MrSunshine: not only me, a whole bunch of people[17:59:11] <hapo> wow[17:59:22] <MrSunshine> _hugo, yeye but i see your name the most on the commits? :P[17:59:35] <hapo> if there is a working ssh client and a working web browser, I might try haiku out today ;)[17:59:36] <_hugo> MrSunshine: only recently[17:59:55] <_hugo> hapo: people have reported firefox to work. there is no ssh port yet[18:00:24] <hapo> thanks for the information.[18:00:27] <_hugo> no problem[18:00:28] <hapo> what about graphics adapters?[18:00:41] <hapo> might my geforce 4 MX be supported?[18:00:54] <dr_evil> the haiku rtl8139 is a little unstable[18:01:22] <hapo> well, it's enough that it works... I wouldn't use haiku as my main OS anyway[18:01:24] <hapo> :)[18:01:29] <hapo> just trying it.[18:03:25] <MrSunshine> _hugo, firefox works in haiku now? :)[18:03:43] <_hugo> MrSunshine: i've heard people stating that they have tested it. i have not personally[18:03:50] <MrSunshine> cool :)[18:03:52] <hapo> it's a pity opera for beos hasn't been developed for years[18:04:01] <MrSunshine> opera ...[18:04:09] <MrSunshine> used it like once in my life and didnt like it[18:04:22] <hapo> I'm one of opera's translators :)[18:04:27] <MrSunshine> haha :)[18:04:45] <hapo> but firefox is okay for me and I appreciate it much.[18:05:59] *** TLF has quit IRC[18:06:12] *** TLF has joined #haiku[18:08:25] <hapo> but well, without SSH haiku is quite much useless for me currently[18:08:32] <hapo> SSH client, that is[18:09:01] *** silver|zzz is now known as silverpower[18:11:05] *** fyysik has joined #haiku[18:11:09] <sarcas> hapo, your GeForce 4 should be supported well, Rudolf had done a huge amount of works with graphics drivers before he stopped working on the project, and the majority of nVidia and ATi cards work well (afaik)[18:11:24] <hapo> nice[18:11:34] <hapo> but the ssh client would be nice anyway :)[18:11:41] <sarcas> Hehe[18:12:07] <GreyGhost> whois Rudolf ?[18:12:20] <hapo> or at least a telnet client[18:12:29] <hapo> I could telnet to my linux box and use ssh through it[18:12:40] <dr_evil> http://revolf.free.fr/beos/shots/shot_haiku_nfs_002_working.png thats nice[18:13:49] *** doc2 has joined #haiku[18:14:22] <GreyGhost> Rudolf has left the project?[18:14:30] <sarcas> Rudolf C (can't remember his last name - sorry) was a developer that spent a lot of time on the graphics drivers for Haiku.[18:14:42] <sarcas> Last year he decided to switch direction and stop coding[18:14:57] <sarcas> Have a look at this OSNews article: http://www.osnews.com/story.php/14800/Rudolf-Announces-Focus-Shift-Seamonkey-Running-on-Haiku[18:15:05] <sarcas> We owe him a lot of thanks[18:16:30] <GreyGhost> sarcas ,ahh ok ..[18:16:58] <doc2> can someone say me if haiku is installeble on a USB key?[18:17:09] <hapo> is therere a telnet client available?[18:17:15] <petterhj> doc2: not as of now..[18:18:41] <doc2> ok thx, I will try with vmware[18:18:42] *** TTRanger has quit IRC[18:19:09] *** umccullough has joined #haiku[18:19:12] <GreyGhost> sarcas ,seems to have been a pretty great guy :)[18:20:25] *** doc2 has quit IRC[18:20:59] <tqh> He probably still is :)[18:21:36] <sarcas> Good point that man ;->[18:22:06] <GreyGhost> yeah :)[18:22:34] <GreyGhost> he seems to have totally disappeared off the internet? or is google showing me only his BeOS stuff ?[18:22:51] <sarcas> hapo: I don't know if there's a telnet client available. I managed to thrash my BeOS Max partition recently and so haven't really played around with any of the recent builds[18:23:41] <sarcas> *thrash = trash[18:23:46] <umccullough> Rudolf: http://be-hold.blogspot.com/[18:24:05] <umccullough> and: http://web.inter.nl.net/users/be-hold/index.html[18:25:53] <GreyGhost> umccullough ,last posts 2006 and 2004[18:26:12] <umccullough> right[18:26:26] <GreyGhost> thats why i say he disappeared;)[18:26:34] <umccullough> he pops up here and there[18:27:30] <umccullough> http://bebits.com/talkback/3636#20773[18:27:35] <umccullough> oct, 2006[18:28:23] <Teknomancer> k going to play[18:28:24] *** Teknomancer has quit IRC[18:28:55] <GreyGhost> ahh ..ok[18:29:25] <umccullough> he did a commit to the repo in Nov, 2006[18:29:28] *** hUMUNGUs has joined #haiku[18:29:33] <umccullough> but it was just a comment change[18:30:35] <GreyGhost> yeah .. he will hopefully come back .. later on ..when he has put everything in life right and has more time :D[18:32:23] <GreyGhost> night all[18:32:31] <umccullough> speaking of which, i gotta go now - ttyl[18:32:35] <umccullough> 'night gravy[18:32:40] <umccullough> oops, GreyGhost[18:32:43] <GreyGhost> umccullough ,cya[18:32:48] <GreyGhost> ;)[18:32:50] *** GreyGhost has left #haiku[18:32:56] <umccullough> stupid nick-completion ;)[18:36:14] *** hUMUNGUs has quit IRC[18:45:19] *** shackan has joined #haiku[18:50:31] *** absabs has left #haiku[18:54:59] *** fyysik has quit IRC[18:58:21] *** oco has joined #haiku[19:02:33] *** umccullough has left #haiku[19:16:31] *** mats has joined #haiku[19:17:19] *** Euver has joined #haiku[19:27:01] *** Kernel86 has quit IRC[19:33:55] *** vision has joined #haiku[19:34:58] *** vision is now known as nik0[19:54:41] *** wildur has joined #Haiku[19:56:41] *** tqh has quit IRC[20:05:45] *** aldeck has quit IRC[20:11:55] *** arikato has quit IRC[20:16:36] *** Euver has quit IRC[20:23:13] *** DaaT has joined #haiku[20:24:31] *** JamesB192 has joined #haiku[20:25:36] *** _Lucretia_ has quit IRC[20:33:24] *** petterhj has quit IRC[20:35:55] *** Begasus has quit IRC[20:36:45] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[20:43:54] *** shackan has quit IRC[20:47:57] *** aldeck has joined #haiku[20:50:20] *** emitrax__ has joined #haiku[21:01:25] <CIA-17> bonefish * r20606 /haiku/trunk/src/build/libroot/ (7 files):[21:01:25] <CIA-17> libroot_build.so:[21:01:25] <CIA-17> * Reorganized sources a bit:[21:01:25] <CIA-17> - The descriptor support is in a separate file now.[21:01:25] <CIA-17> - Disentangled the attribute support from the other stuff.[21:01:26] <CIA-17> * Removed broken xattr use for attribute support.[21:01:58] *** arikato has joined #haiku[21:06:34] *** emitrax_ has quit IRC[21:09:35] *** sarcas has quit IRC[21:15:47] *** nielx has joined #haiku[21:15:57] <nielx> hola[21:16:15] *** sarcas has joined #haiku[21:16:23] <Begasus> hoi nielx[21:17:04] <nielx> hee hallo[21:18:26] <Begasus> hoe loopt het daar? ;)[21:20:36] <nielx> nou, ik ben net teruggekeerd vanuit het schone bilbao voor een gezellig pasen met de familie in NL[21:21:00] <nielx> en dat liep allemaal voorspoedig[21:21:03] <nielx> dus ik ben tevreden[21:26:23] <Begasus> ow netjes ... je woont zelf in bilbao?[21:28:27] <nielx> tijdelijk[21:28:30] <nielx> voor de sudie[21:28:31] <nielx> studie[21:28:34] <nielx> even vijf maanden weg van Nederland[21:28:45] *** stargater has joined #haiku[21:28:46] <nielx> maar ja, je gaat ze toch missen he[21:29:11] <Begasus> yep .... je blijft toch terugkomen naar je roots ;)[21:29:24] <Begasus> hoe loopt het met de studies daar?[21:31:41] <stargater> re[21:32:26] <nielx> ja goed, ik weet me nog aardig door het spaans heen te bluffen[21:33:14] *** kr1stof_ has joined #haiku[21:33:48] <Begasus> hehe[21:34:05] <Begasus> dat zal ook wel de nodige aanpassingen met zich meebrengen ;)[21:34:43] *** b3w_ has joined #haiku[21:35:38] <nielx> ach, het maakt mij niet zoveel uit, het is er best gezellig :-) en het helpt m[21:35:43] <nielx> 'n prioriteiten op orde stellen[21:35:46] <geist> eep oop ick aak[21:36:08] <nielx> geist: just use babelfish :-)[21:36:14] <geist> your language is funny[21:36:50] <nielx> wait 'till you hear it[21:36:57] <DaaT> and you guys wonder why american's aren't loved around the world[21:36:58] <DaaT> :P[21:37:09] <geist> are you one of the dutch speakers that speaks the really harsh version or the light version?[21:37:48] <nielx> Depends on what you consider harsh, but I speak 'normal' Dutch and Rotterdams[21:38:02] <nielx> both would be harsh :-)[21:38:22] <geist> someone told me that depending on where you come from in the country, there is the really harsh sounding one (clearing throat, etc) and a more smooth one[21:38:45] <Begasus> in 'Limburg' we use the smooth one ;)[21:39:41] <geist> you and your velar fricatives[21:40:34] <nielx> well, aparantly it's not so much the velar fricatives, but rather the complex constonant clusters that drive foreigners crazy[21:41:05] <geist> I find it a poignant source of amusement or even satire[21:41:37] *** kr1stof has quit IRC[21:42:31] <stargater> hi Begasus[21:42:40] <stargater> who are you[21:42:41] <Begasus> hi stargater[21:42:57] <Begasus> who?[21:43:22] *** Lelldorin1 has joined #haiku[21:43:45] <nielx> yes, good question[21:44:16] <Begasus> I thought I didn't need to introduce myself anymore after 7 years ...[21:44:28] <Sil2100> A very deep question indeed[21:45:17] <Begasus> google know's the answer ;)[21:46:03] <geist> voorraaddoos[21:46:07] <geist> CRAZEE[21:46:12] <Begasus> lol[21:46:21] <Begasus> bruudruuster ;)[21:46:34] *** b3w has quit IRC[21:46:36] <Begasus> dialect for broodrooster :)[21:46:53] <geist> i should move to netherlands[21:47:08] <geist> every dutch person I've ever met was totally cool[21:47:17] <geist> though I'd probably get my ass kicked for being a foreigner[21:47:57] <Begasus> there's plenty of them geist ...[21:48:25] <geist> the local US propaganda says that europe hates everyone[21:48:39] <Begasus> if I start to walk around in Antwerp or Brussels I feel like I'm in another part of the world ... ;)[21:48:43] <geist> they're preparing the population for a european invasion[21:49:11] <dr_evil> are you living in bushistan geist?[21:49:14] <Begasus> that's something new ... we hating every one ... :s[21:49:25] <geist> ALL HAIL GWB![21:49:46] <dr_evil> jawohl fuehrer[21:49:51] <Begasus> more like Zaire or one of those :p[21:49:51] <geist> heh[21:49:52] <dr_evil> Achtung![21:50:15] <geist> nah, I'm sure if they could San Francisco would seceed from the union[21:50:30] <geist> hell we even have an austrian running our state[21:50:44] <Begasus> yep :p[21:51:19] <dr_evil> mr. die hard, yeah![21:51:34] <dr_evil> Terminate everything[21:51:58] <DaaT> die hard was bruce willis[21:52:03] <geist> meh, this old mac mini is slower than I expected[21:52:06] <geist> 1.4Ghz G4[21:52:13] <geist> but man it's taking forever to compile the linux kernel[21:52:52] <dr_evil> DaaT yes, you are correct[21:53:03] <geist> silverpower was building haikuppc on a G3 yesterday. was taking hours[21:54:02] <silverpower> It got to around three hours before bursting into flames when bfs_shell started doing silly endian-filthy things.[21:55:10] <silverpower> which was a tad frustrating.[21:55:12] <silverpower> Just a tad.[21:57:04] <silverpower> geist, do yourself a *huge* favor and replace the HD. It's a really slow 4200rpm unit stock, and that's what drags down the compiles.[21:58:51] <dr_evil> reminds me, i wanted to RMA that rapotor hdd, and it's weekend again[21:59:12] <silverpower> Ouch.[21:59:35] <geist> yeah, my pegasos box feels somewhat faster than this[21:59:40] <geist> and it's a slower cpu (1Ghz)[21:59:54] <dr_evil> today, the harddisk is working :)[22:00:19] <silverpower> geist, there you go, then. Get a better drive - a nice 7200rpm Seagate or whatever you prefer.[22:02:01] <dr_evil> silverpower did you fix the endian issues?[22:02:20] <geist> dr_evil: looking at the way the local tools are built, it might be a pretty big problem[22:02:45] <geist> one of the things I noticed that was quite bad was the build_lib* stuff was built using the cross-compilers headers, not the native ones[22:03:00] <silverpower> dr_evil, I would if I knew C++ well enough.[22:03:12] <geist> so frankly I'm suprised they build at all when building for another arch[22:03:28] <dr_evil> geist i see.[22:03:29] <silverpower> I wouldn't know where to begin, frankly.[22:03:43] <geist> it'd be easy to pick up an invalid endian thing with that[22:03:48] <dr_evil> I just learned that my email provider is bouncing mails with "maildir over quota", despite 10% beeing shown as free in webmail :([22:03:53] <geist> but yeah, there's probably a bad endian thing in there[22:04:19] <dr_evil> (10% = 5MB)[22:04:27] *** Lelldorin1 has quit IRC[22:05:05] <dr_evil> to bad that there is no longer a high end desktop ppc system beeing sold[22:05:43] <silverpower> dr_evil, define 'high end'.[22:05:47] <silverpower> :)[22:06:23] <silverpower> (Though I'd love to see Mercury come out with a desktop-oriented single/dual Cell board.[22:06:32] <dr_evil> silverpower well, something compareable to dual core E6600, and still beeing actively supported[22:06:49] <geist> yeah, even the cells will get the shit kicked out of em by a modern x86 for desktop stuff[22:07:01] <geist> they're totally designed for massive vector stuff[22:07:08] <nielx> dr_evil: too bad, I guess I'll have to spam someone else then[22:07:15] <dr_evil> Power Mac is Intel Xeon-based thease days[22:07:17] *** Begasus has quit IRC[22:07:20] <geist> they're quite slow. my G5 blows the cell in the PS3 out of the water[22:07:33] <silverpower> dr_evil, no, that's the Mac Pro.[22:07:40] *** Begasus has joined #haiku[22:07:44] <silverpower> PM's all carry PowerPC.[22:08:12] <silverpower> (was there a m68k Power Mac? I forget.)[22:08:27] <dr_evil> silverpower I stand corrected. Power Mac has vanished from apple homepage[22:08:52] <silverpower> hehe. Yeah, the PM equivalent is now the Mac Pro.[22:09:24] <silverpower> As for something comparable to a E6600, that would be the dual-core 970 - on the new IBM process.[22:10:50] <silverpower> Which they haven't attempted yet, I'd bet.[22:11:25] <dr_evil> yes it's vanished from desktop market. but you will still find them in servers or embedded[22:11:33] <geist> the new core2s are quite a bit faster than the G5s[22:11:36] <dr_evil> talking about PPC[22:11:38] <geist> at least 2 or 3 x[22:11:59] <JonathanThompson> Greetings, peeps and poops.[22:12:10] <geist> the core 2s are totaly surprising how fast they are[22:12:20] * JonathanThompson wonders if anyone will associate themselves as a "poop"[22:12:24] <nielx> JonathanThompson: who qualifies as a poop?[22:12:25] <geist> my general impression from my own benchmarks was that a G5 was rougly as fast as an athlon of the same speed[22:12:39] <JonathanThompson> Anyone that's feeling crappy ::P[22:12:50] <silverpower> Shame, that, a SOI 65nm 970MP would be a fun chip to have.[22:13:15] <Begasus> howdy JonathanThompson ;)[22:13:28] <JonathanThompson> Greetings, brother from another mother :P[22:13:35] <geist> that being said, I betcha altivec vs core2 sse would be relatively close[22:13:36] * JonathanThompson is feeling silly today[22:13:47] <geist> on the other hand intel did a pretty good job speeding up sse on the core2s as well[22:13:53] <geist> doubled the width of the unit, etc[22:14:53] <JamesB192> What would be really neat woulb be for Intel, AMD, via and Transmeta to drop x86 and move to PPCs or something not x86.[22:16:07] <silverpower> That could work, particularly if they had compatibility microcode available to run x86/amd64 code in a sandbox.[22:16:31] <_hugo> why move to something else if x86 is working for them?[22:16:37] <geist> yeah[22:16:50] <silverpower> Because x86 needs to die once and for all?[22:17:05] <_hugo> silverpower: why does x86 need to die?[22:17:10] <silverpower> It's what, nearly 30 years old now?[22:17:12] <geist> seems to be paying their bills[22:17:25] <geist> it's a reality vs fantasty discussion[22:17:26] <_hugo> does unix need to die silverpower?[22:17:35] <geist> andn impedance mismatch[22:17:39] <silverpower> touche.[22:17:55] <silverpower> If Unix didn't evolve, I'd say no.[22:18:12] <_hugo> do you think x86 didnt evolve? :-) just look at Core[22:18:22] <silverpower> But x86 looks like hacks piled upon hacks ad infinitum.[22:18:36] <JamesB192> x86_64 is a step in the right direction, but you need to realize that they will be loathe to change platforms is it breaks backwards compatability. (look at the 186)[22:18:39] <JonathanThompson> So does unix :P[22:19:03] <_hugo> silverpower: everytime there is a need to maintain compatability, you get hacks. thats how it works[22:19:05] <silverpower> JonathanThompson, yes, but the problems with Unix can be resolved.[22:19:10] <_hugo> silverpower: they cannot[22:19:35] <silverpower> oh, what, you're one of those anti-Unix weirdoes?[22:19:40] <silverpower> :P[22:19:40] <_hugo> i am not. :-)[22:19:51] <JonathanThompson> There's at least as much code that still exists that depends on all the quirks and flaws of unix and variants as there is code that's x86-specific.[22:20:21] <_hugo> its not even the quirks, its the design decisions[22:20:39] <_hugo> you have no way to ask a program developer for unix for memory for instance[22:20:46] <_hugo> s/developer/developed/[22:21:09] <dr_evil> malloc()[22:21:16] <_hugo> no, thats the program asking for memory to the OS[22:21:17] <_hugo> :-)[22:21:36] <dr_evil> I can't follow you[22:21:36] <silverpower> free()?[22:21:39] <_hugo> imagine you have a program that does this loads and loafs of caching[22:22:00] <_hugo> and then the OS for some reason needs some memory (memory pressure)[22:22:07] <_hugo> it has no way to ask the program to release memory[22:22:12] <_hugo> unless killing it of course[22:22:15] <_hugo> (which is what Linux does)[22:22:37] <dr_evil> swapping out, mmap, MapViewOfFile does exist[22:22:39] <geist> yeah, there's no communication back from the kernel[22:22:53] <geist> i've seen that solved a few ways but it's always some new mechanism that has to be invented[22:23:09] <_hugo> dr_evil: imagine you have no more swap space, this is really memory pressure[22:23:23] <_hugo> anyway, its just an example[22:23:42] <dr_evil> yes it understand now[22:24:28] * JonathanThompson wonders if _hugo is very educated in the ways of old Windows internals[22:24:31] <silverpower> mm. okay, so criticism of x86 fails on the 'it's ancient and baroque and there's better stuff anyway' point.[22:24:40] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: not really[22:24:49] <_hugo> windows is older than me[22:24:50] <silverpower> according you you, anyway.[22:24:55] <silverpower> *to you[22:25:10] <JonathanThompson> I don't know for certain if Win32 does it, but Win16 sent a message to applications when things got tught, asking them to compact memory.[22:25:37] <_hugo> silverpower: its just that killing stuff just for killing them doesnt make much sense :-) thats why i asked "why kill x86"[22:25:55] <JonathanThompson> The 68K architecture had some definitely nice things about it, but Motorola didn't advance things as fast as Intel, and they fell behind.[22:26:08] *** pikapika has joined #haiku[22:26:12] <silverpower> That's because 88k was stillborn.[22:26:23] <silverpower> and PPC took forever to take off.[22:26:31] <_hugo> JonathanThompson: well, the Win16 problem space was a bit different[22:26:35] <JonathanThompson> Sadly, that's history, and they're not likely to try to revive it.[22:26:42] *** tqh has joined #haiku[22:26:48] <JonathanThompson> Not all that much different, _hugo.[22:26:58] <pikapika> hello[22:27:12] <silverpower> m68k is still around, but you don't see it in server/desktop spaces anymore.[22:27:13] <JonathanThompson> Greetings, pikapika.[22:27:21] <pikapika> :)[22:27:38] <JonathanThompson> True, silverpower: it still works well for microcontrollers that are higher-end than PIC processors.[22:28:05] <JonathanThompson> Though unless they've done a power/die reduction, it may be more cost-effective with low-end PPC chips.[22:28:51] <JonathanThompson> I had plans of trying to design and build my own 68K-based computer when I was a teenager :)[22:28:58] <silverpower> and while I'd love to assemble a fantasy 'X68060-SMP' machine someday (too bad I suck at electrical design too), that doesn't mean it's going to come back. :([22:29:06] <JonathanThompson> I liked the architecture, and wanted something better than what I had available.[22:29:57] <JonathanThompson> Other than not having enough knowledge at that age to carry it off, I had an even bigger problem: no financial means to do it :P[22:30:31] *** jpd has joined #haiku[22:30:57] <silverpower> hah, that's what's stopped me from simply ordering a bunch of FPGAs, a couple 68060s from Hitachi and miscellaneous parts. Lack of skills and money.[22:31:11] <silverpower> It'd still be a fun project if I can ever spare the money and time.[22:31:22] * JonathanThompson wonders if it's worth his bother to email Kian Duffy or Technix to spell "Houston" correctly for the error message on HN[22:31:31] * nielx has his ears buzzing from all teh geektalk[22:31:37] *** gr00ber has joined #haiku[22:31:47] <nielx> JonathanThompson: You should phone them, this is serious![22:31:48] <silverpower> poor dear.[22:31:54] * JonathanThompson is glad nielx is getting a buzz from talk and not from alcohol[22:32:23] <JonathanThompson> Since I saw the maintenance guy today having to hose down the sidewalk from someone that apparently had a bit too much to drink...[22:32:45] <JonathanThompson> Good thing he was able to get to it before things fermented even more and hardened on the sidewalk.[22:32:56] <nielx> well, it's a holy saturday, so I'd say: bring in the booze[22:33:25] <JonathanThompson> For an honest alcoholic, anytime you're able to tip the bottle is a good one, has been my observation.[22:33:56] *** BNickName has joined #haiku[22:35:02] *** BNickName has quit IRC[22:35:35] <silverpower> I wonder, though, whether I should just give in and start learning the relevant skills.[22:35:55] <JonathanThompson> You may even find you're good at it, and can make a decent living at it.[22:36:23] <JonathanThompson> Then again, you may find you're far better off learning something else to make a living, because it doesn't come naturally to you, and/or you hate the work.[22:37:19] *** tstrokes has joined #haiku[22:37:24] <_hugo> not every skill implies "make a living"[22:37:29] <JonathanThompson> True.[22:37:46] <JonathanThompson> But certain ones are so involved in what it takes to get there, you are then qualified to do that.[22:37:47] *** jpaul has joined #haiku[22:37:54] <_hugo> not everything is about making a living anyway, or else people wouldn't be doing Haiku[22:37:59] * DaaT 's sheep skills don't imply making a living, unfortunately[22:38:03] <DaaT> oi _hugo, tudo bem?[22:38:04] <silverpower> Too true.[22:38:07] <_hugo> DaaT: vai-se andando :-)[22:38:08] <JonathanThompson> Doesn't mean you WANT to, though, but you may not recoup the investment of time/money/energy otherwise.[22:38:18][22:38:36] <gr00ber> x86_32, 256 mb memory, no programs started, haiku crashes after 4-5 hours of idling. does haiku output anything interesting in logs?[22:38:37] <_hugo> DaaT: eheh, muita coisa diferente, e ultimamente umas coisas mais pequenas na net stack do haiku[22:38:43] <JonathanThompson> The farther along in my career I go, the farther I'm getting away from my formal training :P[22:39:10] <DaaT> reparei[22:39:11] <JonathanThompson> (that's not even counting the 10.5 months I spent delivering pizza)[22:39:22] <[Beta]> gr00ber, yes. serial output is the best (only) way to capture it.[22:39:49] <gr00ber> yikes, this machine doesn't even have a serial port (modern laptop...)[22:39:51] <[Beta]> if it goes to KDL, you can use some debugger commands too.[22:40:00] <gr00ber> maybe i can setup usb to act as a serial bus[22:40:08] <[Beta]> you're running it natively, not in an emu ?[22:40:19] <gr00ber> real machine, yeah[22:40:32] <_hugo> DaaT: pequenas coisas ainda, espero que mais coisas no futuro proximo[22:40:37] <gr00ber> the VMWare img keeps hanging on me[22:40:59] <_hugo> gr00ber: does it hang or goes to the kernel debugger?[22:41:18] <gr00ber> _hugo, i left the machine alone for a few hours and it had rebooted[22:41:26] <gr00ber> _hugo, oh, in VMWare... it hangs[22:41:27] <_hugo> maybe it overheated?[22:41:31] <gr00ber> _hugo, no :)[22:41:33] <_hugo> no i meant the real one[22:41:56] <tqh> Is opening a bug the best way to submit patches? :)[22:41:57] <gr00ber> ok, it has no problems with heat when I run linux/windoze :)[22:42:08] <_hugo> tqh: it helps to keep track of issues[22:42:14] <silverpower> Wow, two MC68060s aren't exactly cheap.[22:42:23] <silverpower> Freescale wants quite a bit for them.[22:42:26] <[Beta]> gr00ber, what was it doing when idling, nothing, or running something? (how idle ;))[22:42:31] <_hugo> gr00ber: well, possibly haiku isnt keeping it as cool as it should. im not sure though[22:42:50] *** LeandroLuiz has joined #haiku[22:42:51] <_hugo> if its a laptop it has a bigger chance of overheating[22:42:52] <gr00ber> [Beta], i had booted the OS, then left it idling[22:43:14] <gr00ber> _hugo, hm, in that case running haiku seems like a dangerous game[22:43:35] *** jpd has quit IRC[22:43:35] <gr00ber> that said, I have run haiku for a few hours before[22:43:43] <_hugo> gr00ber: leaving software that is under heavy development in a machine unattended? yeah :-) can be[22:43:49] <dr_evil> haiku does not cause overheating, it's using the hlt instruction[22:43:55] <gr00ber> without noticing any fan[22:44:10] <gr00ber> dr_evil, yeah, but there could be bugs waking it up all the time[22:44:15] <gr00ber> like irq flooding[22:44:31] <gr00ber> recursion in exception handlers or whatever[22:44:34] <silverpower> dr_evil, doesn't mean it's handling thermal management properly.[22:44:52] <_hugo> gr00ber: anyway, its a problem difficult to debug[22:44:55] <silverpower> (One of the problems I'd have to crack to trust Haiku to run on my i8600...)[22:44:56] <gr00ber> so ppl have noticed heat problems? or is this just a long shot?[22:45:12] <_hugo> gr00ber: its just a possibility :-)[22:45:23] <gr00ber> ok[22:45:55] <silverpower> gr00ber, if you're going to leave it unattended, use VMWare in an OS with proper thermal management.[22:46:10] <gr00ber> well, it hangs in my VMWare instance :)[22:46:18] <_hugo> gr00ber: immediatly?[22:46:22] <gr00ber> so i figured I'd try the real thing[22:46:32] <geist> even if it's not using power managmenet, no machine should blow up if you peg the cpu 100%[22:46:39] <gr00ber> _hugo, no, after a while[22:46:44] <gr00ber> geist, exactly[22:46:46] <silverpower> geist, hahahaha... no.[22:46:47] <gr00ber> sounds unlikely[22:46:57] <geist> gr00ber: is the box smp?[22:47:05] <gr00ber> yes[22:47:12] <geist> i seem to remember the hlt is disabled for smp boxen[22:47:21] <silverpower> My Pentium-M has nearly killed itself several times without thermal management.[22:47:32] <geist> there was a bug in early ppros i ebelive, and i put it in newos because i was testing on ppros when i first got started[22:47:48] <geist> probably worth getting rid of[22:47:49] <silverpower> How's the ACPI implementation in Haiku so far?[22:48:13] <gr00ber> the only time I've been able to reboot a peecee due to heat was when I switched fans and forgot applying "heating jelly"[22:48:24] <silverpower> (I fully expect to be laughed at and asked 'what ACPI implementation'?)[22:48:27] <gr00ber> it was supposed to reboot thankfully :)[22:48:34] *** MrSunshine has quit IRC[22:48:37] <geist> same, I put a heat sink on a cpu backwards one time[22:48:43] <gr00ber> ha[22:48:44] <geist> where it was only partially touching the core[22:48:50] <geist> the machine would blow up after a few hours[22:49:17] <geist> the athlon xp slots are reversable, but the core is offset quite a bit[22:49:24] *** MrSunshine has joined #haiku[22:50:02] *** arikato has quit IRC[22:50:41] <silverpower> geist, as far as I'm aware, not all BIOSes take over thermal management properly when near the temp threshold.[22:50:44] *** arikato has joined #haiku[22:50:53] <geist> right[22:50:56] <geist> i could imagine that[22:51:26] <Pulko_Mandy> don't use a PCChips motherboard and evertything will be fine :)[22:51:41] <geist> or FIC[22:51:43] <silverpower> My Inspiron 8600 doesn't - the relevant ACPI table has thresholds that're too high.[22:52:46] <silverpower> and some OSes initialize ACPI on their own, but don't actually bother to manage it, so the fans never spin up properly. I got into the habit of forcing the fans to high as soon as possible in the boot sequence.[22:53:18] <silverpower> Of course, I can't actually *do* that in BeOS/Haiku as far as I'm aware. Yet.[22:53:49] <geist> there is acpi support in haiku[22:53:52] <geist> not sure what it does[22:54:48] <gr00ber> ACPI parsing seems like a mountain of quirks[22:54:48] <silverpower> oi. that could be bad. Not all BIOSes are programmed properly, after all.[22:54:54] <gr00ber> the open standard left... things open[22:54:57] *** JamesB192 has quit IRC[22:55:35] <silverpower> gr00ber, it doesn't help that they use the MS rules compiler most of the time, which is a real piece of trash that violates the spec in a whole bunch of nasty ways.[22:55:48] <gr00ber> right[22:56:21] <gr00ber> i remember Torvalds asking the Intel ACPI guys to go shoot themselves before reproducing[22:56:44] <gr00ber> guess we're stuck with it though[22:57:36] <tqh> hmm, I'd actually take the acpi-code before the linux-code[22:58:05] <gr00ber> what acpi code?[22:58:16] <tqh> the one that intel has supplied[22:58:23] <tqh> and Haiku uses[22:58:26] <silverpower> All the drama my Inspiron's ACPI implementation has caused me really made me want to sell it to some sucker for really cheap and buy another, newer Powerbook.[22:59:33] <silverpower> At least that platform does sane things with unmanaged PM - fans on high 100% of the time until the OS takes over.[22:59:36] <tqh> btw, but another bug up on the auich driver and provided a nice patch to go with it[23:05:52] *** tstrokes has left #haiku[23:07:08] *** kokito has joined #haiku[23:10:33] <Begasus> morning kokito[23:11:03] <kokito> good afternoon Begasus :)[23:11:12] <Begasus> ah ;)[23:12:57] <dr_evil> I tried watching "13t floor", but that movie somehow sucks[23:13:05] <dr_evil> 13th[23:14:08] <gr00ber> i sure does[23:14:11] <gr00ber> it[23:15:20] <gr00ber> myself watched Pirates of the Silicon Valley again last night[23:15:30] <gr00ber> for a B-movie, it's kinda fun[23:15:43] <gr00ber> an not totally historically inaccurate either[23:21:33] <geist> 23![23:21:35] <geist> OBEY[23:21:55] <gr00ber> lame movie[23:22:12] <gr00ber> lame kick[23:22:17] <geist> heh[23:22:37] <geist> the 13th floor reminded me of max headroom (the series)[23:22:43] <geist> which then reminded me of network 23[23:22:48] <geist> which then got me reading up on it again[23:22:57] <geist> and then that reminded me of the 23 anaconism[23:23:34] <silverpower> How would I go about hooking gdb into the image-building stage?[23:26:41] *** gotaku has joined #haiku[23:27:28] <silverpower> never mind, I remembered attach <pid>.[23:28:46] *** jpaul has quit IRC[23:30:05] *** Ingenu has quit IRC[23:37:02] *** Sil2100 has quit IRC[23:38:29] *** tqh has quit IRC[23:41:40] *** Kernel86 has joined #Haiku[23:49:10] *** Pulko__Mandy has joined #haiku[23:49:51] *** TLF has quit IRC[23:52:38] *** Euver has joined #haiku[23:55:59] *** Pulko_Mandy has quit IRC