March 24, 2019 
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March 24, 2019 [00:00:16] <o][o> "unresolved references"[00:02:29] <LunarJetman> nothing wrong with that[00:06:50] <LunarJetman> this version much better: https://github.com/i42output/neolib/commit/d134dab13d8cd7c6e0de01eeb3bff41fee25d2dd https://github.com/i42output/neos/commit/946ca587b279b74eabf22953b1d5b8620fc28d87[00:22:55] <LunarJetman> why was Pavlov's hair so soft? Because he conditioned it.[00:49:07] <o][o> https://youtu.be/wJdNrCeUdhc?t=26[01:13:26] <LastTalon> o][o, whats a book?[01:13:58] <LastTalon> Is that like to kill a mocking bird? :P[01:15:27] <LastTalon> Or maybe the great gatsby.[01:15:34] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:bd9c:a0b:4f1a:587> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:16:00] <LastTalon> I feel like this should be easy for anyone who ever had an english class in school. :P[01:20:16] *** grim001 <grim001!~grim001@ip70-189-228-129.lv.lv.cox.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[01:27:52] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:1a:c171:3ee7:9c4a:6828:3ea8> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[01:31:53] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[02:16:26] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[02:20:45] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[02:36:06] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[02:37:23] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Quit: the cheetahmen ran off... and now ... the cheetahmen)[03:08:16] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[03:44:31] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:8d54:d7f1:df0b:bac2> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[03:56:05] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[04:11:46] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[04:13:54] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[04:23:33] *** diwr <diwr!~diwr@unaffiliated/diwr> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[04:24:16] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-178-012-046-133.178.012.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: refs)[04:27:13] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[04:30:06] <mijowh> http://strangehorizons.com/non-fiction/articles/installing-linux-on-a-dead-badger-users-notes/[04:32:52] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[04:37:32] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[04:39:23] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has quit IRC (Quit: freestyledork)[04:47:47] *** nek0 <nek0!~nek0@2a01:4f8:222:2b41::66> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[04:48:47] *** _DB <_DB!68375605@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.55.86.5> has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)[04:56:09] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[05:12:15] *** nek0 <nek0!~nek0@static.88-198-20-152.clients.your-server.de> has joined #gamedev[05:20:04] *** perplexity <perplexity!~perplexed@unaffiliated/perplexity> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[05:28:42] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[05:34:10] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[05:46:18] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has quit IRC (Quit: 0x80)[06:06:10] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has joined #gamedev[06:30:09] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[06:35:28] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[06:45:40] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)[07:11:21] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[07:24:11] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[07:31:38] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[07:37:09] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[07:58:49] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[08:14:56] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:2d76:f826:12e3:5ed0> has joined #gamedev[08:33:05] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[08:38:34] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[08:45:20] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[08:52:42] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[09:18:17] *** firippu <firippu!~firippu@unaffiliated/firippu> has joined #gamedev[09:34:35] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[09:36:45] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has joined #gamedev[09:37:40] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:38:35] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host)[09:38:43] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[09:44:12] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[09:46:36] *** rindolf <rindolf!~shlomif@77.126.109.232> has joined #gamedev[10:40:38] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[10:40:39] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[10:55:39] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@178.197.224.74> has joined #gamedev[10:57:18] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[11:11:54] *** Rangar <Rangar!~Rangar@124.197.27.173> has joined #gamedev[11:17:11] <Donitzo> good moaning[11:24:59] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@178.197.224.74> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[11:35:58] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[11:39:35] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:1a:c171:3ee7:9c4a:6828:3ea8> has joined #gamedev[11:39:54] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[11:43:47] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[11:45:03] *** Orion] <Orion]!~H0i@unaffiliated/orion/x-3970838> has joined #gamedev[11:46:14] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[11:53:14] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[11:57:18] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[11:57:25] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[12:25:03] <brainzap> Donitzo: whats up[12:40:34] <Donitzo> not much, publishing some 3d models[12:40:46] <Donitzo> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3449520[12:49:37] <brainzap> I was at a fablab yesterday where they had 2 persua and a 2 laser cutters[12:49:54] <Donitzo> prusa[12:49:58] <Donitzo> nice printers[12:50:20] <Donitzo> prusa i3 mk3 is pretty much top of the line for cheap budget printers as I've said[12:56:08] <brainzap> but it is too expensive, just use cardoard to make things lol[13:06:57] <Donitzo> https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/reprap-snappy-is-the-most-3d-printable-3d-printer-yet-57957/[13:07:11] <Donitzo> though I don't expect you'd get very good tolerances[13:07:22] <Donitzo> again, you get a 3d printer with a full metal frame for $200[13:07:24] <Donitzo> so why bother[13:08:31] <brainzap> Donitzo: how is game dev going[13:08:43] <Donitzo> 1180 byte[13:08:52] <Donitzo> need to lose a few[13:09:49] <brainzap> hmm[13:10:01] <Donitzo> I think I need to manually go through the closure compiled code and rename variables[13:10:10] <Donitzo> to make them compress better with js crush[13:10:21] <Donitzo> js crush basically just looks for repeated code patterns[13:10:40] <brainzap> is it open source[13:10:54] <Donitzo> probably[13:11:07] <Donitzo> they usually force you to make code open source for these compos[13:12:28] *** englosh <englosh!1f12ff23@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.18.255.35> has joined #gamedev[13:13:46] <englosh> so I heard that the FPS are bad for measuring the perfomance. Is that true? Why do we still use FPS then?[13:15:09] <brainzap> Donitzo: your code[13:15:54] <Donitzo> one sec[13:16:21] <Donitzo> I'll just codepen it[13:17:53] <Donitzo> https://codepen.io/Donitz/pen/RdvJgX[13:18:45] <Donitzo> I'd be impressed if you'd find a way to reduce the code with the same functionality[13:18:59] <Donitzo> except... sometimes reducing code means worse compressed code :P[13:19:19] <Donitzo> have to consider that sometimes inline code compresses better than a function[13:19:32] <Donitzo> 2 characters vs 1 function and 2 function calls[13:22:05] <brainzap> can you reference the canvas by class?[13:22:25] <Donitzo> you can ignore anything before the closure compiler comment[13:22:28] <Donitzo> those are in the js1k shim[13:48:36] <Donitzo> wait a second[13:48:55] <Donitzo> I could probably make a prototype function which uses regex to get object properties[13:49:10] <Donitzo> that's just mental enough to work[13:50:25] <Donitzo> a('globalC*') = 'source-over' instead of a.globalCompositiongMode[13:50:36] <Donitzo> .*[13:55:17] <brainzap> just enumerate all functions and hope the user has the same chrome version[13:57:23] <Donitzo> yeah, I'm a bit paranoid about doing that[13:57:51] <Donitzo> there is a risk that some obscure property has a similiar name in some browser[13:58:56] <Donitzo> b.globalCompositeOperation=[13:59:15] <Donitzo> 27 * 2 byte, compressed 27 + 1 byte[13:59:45] <Donitzo> + 2 byte[14:00:25] <Donitzo> I'm not going to sacrifice the dynamic lighting![14:02:30] <brainzap> why do you make 3 canvas?[14:04:44] <Donitzo> 1 for depth, 1 for color, 1 for temp output[14:04:56] <brainzap> can they not be combined in one[14:05:00] *** unlimiter <unlimiter!~unlimiter@105.157.218.40> has joined #gamedev[14:05:14] <Donitzo> no, since I need a canvas to render the rotated image on[14:05:18] <Donitzo> while still keeping the original[14:05:37] <Donitzo> though, I could instead use the real canvas as the final output[14:05:41] <Donitzo> if I limit the size of it[14:05:50] <Donitzo> which you are allowed to do in the shim[14:18:14] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-094-222-202-016.094.222.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[14:19:50] <Donitzo> 1125 after doing that[14:19:59] <Donitzo> 100 more[14:20:13] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined #gamedev[14:21:13] <brainzap> can you reuse the canvas?[14:21:39] <Donitzo> yes but it wouldn't reduce the code[14:22:05] <brainzap> you could make your color calculation dumber?[14:22:39] <Donitzo> I tried but it's really hard[14:22:46] <Donitzo> var baseColor = seq(3, () => 50 + rand(150));[14:22:49] <Donitzo> var colors = seq(5, () => '#' + baseColor.map(color => (color - 50 + rand(112)).toString(16)).join(''));[14:22:59] <Donitzo> this is the thing the people on #javascript whined to me about[14:23:12] <Donitzo> because it was soooo complicated and difficult to read that they couldn't grasp their head around it[14:24:57] <brainzap> nobody can read your shit[14:25:21] <Donitzo> that's too high, 260[14:32:47] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has joined #gamedev[14:34:20] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[14:37:26] <brainzap> would this work var colors = seq(5, () => `rgb(${baseColor.map(color => color - 50 + rand(112))})`);[14:41:15] <Donitzo> yes, but it added 30 bytes[14:41:34] <Donitzo> the code was less similiar to other code[14:41:51] <Donitzo> hmm[14:41:55] <Donitzo> odd[14:42:04] <Donitzo> there isn't even a 30 char diff[14:43:02] <Donitzo> I'm just looking through the closure compiled code to find sections to optimize at this point[14:45:49] <brainzap> just use random colors without base lol[14:46:19] <brainzap> hsl would not help either? to just rotate the hue a bit[14:47:13] <Donitzo> the base color really adds to the identity of the ship[14:47:25] <Donitzo> less of a clown ship more of a kind of alien species ship[14:47:41] <Donitzo> maybe that could work[14:48:47] *** wPSvils <wPSvils!~PDevelope@193.238.213.7> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[14:53:08] <Donitzo> I have no idea why you aren't allowed to use integer colors for javascript fillStyle[14:53:34] <Donitzo> it just seems like that would be the natural input[15:17:44] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[15:24:46] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[15:27:33] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[15:46:35] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[15:54:10] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:6847:9c61:9bd6:b959> has joined #gamedev[16:05:08] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[16:13:52] *** wPSvils <wPSvils!~PDevelope@193.238.213.7> has joined #gamedev[16:14:14] <Donitzo> 1070. I can almost tasty victory[16:14:19] <Donitzo> taste*[16:18:55] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[16:44:51] <o][o> what you are achieving?[16:48:33] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has joined #gamedev[16:48:41] *** englosh <englosh!1f12ff23@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.18.255.35> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[16:48:52] <warweasle> I've lost my motivation for the day. I think I'll work on other tasks today.[16:48:56] <warweasle> Not animating.[17:24:47] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has quit IRC (Quit: spank me)[17:42:29] <brainzap2> dont give up mr war[17:49:48] *** realtime <realtime!realtime@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/realtime> has joined #gamedev[17:53:48] *** unlimiter <unlimiter!~unlimiter@105.157.218.40> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)[18:05:13] <o][o> 2 late[18:05:25] <o][o> he went for his daily BDSM session[18:06:43] *** [rg] <[rg]!~ricardo@67-204-254-48.eastlink.ca> has joined #gamedev[18:07:20] <[rg]> hello[18:08:47] <rindolf> [rg]: hey[18:09:13] <Prestige> hello every1[18:09:16] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has joined #gamedev[18:09:39] <rindolf> Prestige: hi, sup?[18:10:10] * o][o finishing his housework in order to get back to gamedev[18:10:17] <Donitzo> oh what the hell[18:10:26] <Donitzo> now the js1k shim is broken too[18:10:34] * o][o will implement the remaining widgets and go straight to model the enemies and their nasty attacks[18:10:35] <Prestige> just chilling wbu rindolf ?[18:10:41] <o][o> enemies are the hardest part of any game[18:10:49] <[rg]> i am just messing around with drawing objects in java, how can I determine whats a good size for things such as a game board? right now working in a 1000x768 window[18:11:10] <o][o> [rg]: that looks good[18:11:36] <o][o> make it scalable[18:11:48] <o][o> my implementation of a backgammon was pretty fun[18:11:55] <rindolf> Prestige: firefox caching snafu[18:11:57] <[rg]> yeah not sure how to scale yet so keeping a fixed window[18:12:01] <o][o> everything was drawn with vectors[18:12:03] <[rg]> that isnt my board size yet[18:12:06] <rindolf> Prestige: fixed now[18:12:17] <o][o> [rg]: how so? just multiply everything by a scale factor[18:12:39] <[rg]> ohh[18:12:41] <[rg]> right[18:13:30] <rindolf> Prestige: i also solved https://projecteuler.net/problem=451[18:14:48] <Prestige> I wish there was an easy way to break browser caches for updates[18:15:11] <rindolf> Prestige: what?[18:17:14] <Prestige> when I work on web games, if I make an update I have to manually clear my browser cache for it to take effect[18:17:22] <Prestige> I wish there was an easier way to do that[18:17:33] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[18:17:34] <Prestige> but I think the file names need to be changed for it to be automatic[18:19:27] <rindolf> Prestige: ah[18:19:33] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)[18:19:47] <rindolf> Prestige: yes[18:21:06] *** Donitzo <Donitzo!~Donitzo@85-156-203-108.elisa-laajakaista.fi> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[18:23:28] *** Donitzo <Donitzo!~Donitzo@85-156-203-108.elisa-laajakaista.fi> has joined #gamedev[18:26:17] <R2robot> SHIFT + refresh doesn't work?[18:27:30] <R2robot> https://lifehacker.com/shift-refresh-is-like-the-restart-button-for-web-sites-5574852[18:27:55] <Prestige> Well my main issue is regarding other people visiting the website[18:28:08] <R2robot> ahh[18:28:18] <R2robot> then they need to shift + refresh :D[18:28:32] <R2robot> isn't there a 'no-cache' directive you can put in the header though?[18:28:41] <Prestige> I might just generate a random name for the webpack js file and inject it into index.html[18:28:51] <Prestige> hm im not sure, need to look into it more[18:30:08] <R2robot> https://no-cache.net/[18:30:28] <R2robot> weird that it has it's own domain or nah? lol[18:31:03] *** Groogy <Groogy!~Groogy@90-227-38-205-no61.tbcn.telia.com> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)[18:33:13] <Prestige> a bit haha[18:39:55] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[18:41:34] <notchris> hello frenz[18:43:00] <sebbu> use different filename, or include version in arguments[18:43:05] <sebbu> myfile.js?ver=1.3[18:43:06] <sebbu> etc...[18:43:19] <sebbu> even if the file is static[18:44:03] <sebbu> (if you're a good coder, you have backward compatibility, so it doesn't matter if newer requests gives a newer version)[18:44:23] <sebbu> and your index will ask myfile.js?ver=1.4 when you update it[18:44:34] <sebbu> so the previous cache won't be used[19:26:32] <LastTalon> R2robot, generally you want it to be cached.[19:26:49] <LastTalon> It would kind of suck to have to retrieve it every time when there isn't an update.[19:27:07] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has joined #gamedev[19:27:28] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[19:27:56] *** [rg] <[rg]!~ricardo@67-204-254-48.eastlink.ca> has left #gamedev[19:28:15] <LastTalon> If you know when your updates happen you can control this in the headers.[19:28:29] <LastTalon> So like... if updates happen every tuesday you can make them expire on tuesdays.[19:42:41] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined #gamedev[19:45:19] <sebbu> or you can change the url when there's an update, so that cache doesn't matter[19:45:20] <sebbu> :D[19:47:15] <brainzap2> when you decompile an android app, and inside you find the code merged together with the example of the framework[19:54:45] <LastTalon> You can't always guarantee someone is going to go to a different url either.[19:56:54] <LastTalon> Typically you should let the cache do its job, but try to help it do its job better rather than subverting it.[19:57:15] <LastTalon> You shouldn't be fighting the cache, its on your side.[20:06:31] <R2robot> LastTalon: for testing purposes, I wouldn't not want it cached though[20:06:41] <R2robot> wait[20:06:43] <R2robot> I would not* lol[20:06:50] <LastTalon> If you're testing you should be able to reset your own cache.[20:06:52] <LastTalon> :P[20:07:12] <R2robot> he said it was for the other people though[20:07:27] <LastTalon> Other people?[20:08:13] <LastTalon> Like over the internet?[20:08:18] <LastTalon> Well then you probably want caching.[20:08:22] <R2robot> 12:27 <Prestige> Well my main issue is regarding other people visiting the website[20:09:25] <R2robot> caching for production, but not for frequent updates that you want them to test[20:09:47] <LastTalon> HTTP isn't designed to be used that way.[20:10:07] <R2robot> lol[20:10:10] <LastTalon> If you need to do rapid updates over the internet you probably want to find a protocol that can deliver it that way. Lol[20:10:45] <R2robot> well there is literally a no-cache directive, soooo..[20:11:00] <LastTalon> Which can be completely ignored.[20:11:38] <R2robot> welp.. talk to him. I don't do web apps :)[20:11:43] <LastTalon> :P[20:11:51] <LastTalon> I mean you can always use stuff like that, yes.[20:12:08] * LastTalon runs and hides[20:12:18] <LastTalon> I forgot you aren't allowed to tell people they're using technology wrong.[20:12:56] <Donitzo> and done[20:13:06] <R2robot> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzT9AZbupgI[20:13:08] <Donitzo> your mom uses technology wrong[20:13:19] <sebbu> https://xkcd.com/1172/[20:13:22] <LastTalon> But I mean basically http assumes the files are relatively stable for a little while at least.[20:13:47] <LastTalon> If they're known not to be stable, usually some protocol is used ontop of it through POST in some way.[20:15:29] <R2robot> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzT9AZbupgI[20:15:38] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[20:16:27] <LastTalon> R2robot, no it isn't.[20:16:40] <R2robot> *ding* your 5 minutes are up[20:16:48] <R2robot> unless you want to pay for the full half hour[20:16:50] <LastTalon> That wasn't nearly 5 minutes.[20:19:20] <LastTalon> R2robot, you can't always end the sketches with scotland yard.[20:19:40] <R2robot> yes you can[20:19:44] <LastTalon> No you can't.[20:19:53] <R2robot> :P[20:20:00] <LastTalon> Lol[20:20:13] <LastTalon> Man, monty python is great.[20:20:20] <LastTalon> Python got their naming on the head.[20:21:17] <Prestige> LastTalon: what is the right way to make sure the end user is viewing the newest content? I liked the idea of having the version appended to the webpack.js file[20:21:34] <LastTalon> There is no "right way" with http.[20:21:57] <LastTalon> Rather you can't be 100% sure that they're viewing the newest content.[20:22:25] <LastTalon> There are circumstances beyond your control where servers may continue to serve stale content to end users without you knowing.[20:23:52] <LastTalon> Like say a node goes down and 1000 people can no longer contact your server directly, but there is a proxy they can reach that has a stale version of the content. Then that proxy will most likely serve it to them anyway.[20:24:07] <Prestige> I mean, I put up the new files to be seen, but their browsers have the files cached so they never see it, until they manually clear their cache[20:24:17] <Prestige> that's the only thing I'm trying to solve[20:24:30] <LastTalon> Well then set the expiration of the content very low.[20:24:41] <LastTalon> The thing is that http isn't mean to deal with arbitrarily stale content.[20:25:15] <Prestige> I mean this is a browser issue not an http issue[20:25:20] <LastTalon> Or like was pointed out, you can attempt to tell caches to always validate using no-cache or the like.[20:25:28] <LastTalon> But it often gets ignored.[20:26:03] <LastTalon> HTTP simply isn't a protocol meant to handle files updating in such an arbitrary way.[20:27:44] <Prestige> what is not arbitrary?[20:27:56] <Prestige> It's an update delivered by the provider of the content[20:28:27] <LastTalon> Which is arbitrary as far as HTTP is concerned.[20:28:37] <LastTalon> It has no way of knowing when you plan to push new content.[20:29:02] <Prestige> im just curious what would not be arbitrary to http, like do they expect certain updates?[20:29:22] <LastTalon> Basically HTTP is mostly concerned with predefined types of transactions.[20:29:39] <LastTalon> If its a POST request then it knows it needs to refer back to the original server.[20:30:00] <LastTalon> But GET requests are assumed to be idempotent.[20:30:18] <LastTalon> And so they get cached.[20:31:16] <LastTalon> So basically the vast majority of the web is assumed that it will be the same from one request to the next by and large.[20:31:53] <LastTalon> So if there are 1000 requests going through one node to request the same file from your server then it doesn't need to actually ask your server 1000 times, it just needs to ask once.[20:32:30] <LastTalon> Whereas a POST request might be different each time you ask, so it would have to ask 1000 times.[20:33:59] <sebbu> remember argument (after the ?) are counted for whereas an url is unique or not for GET requests[20:35:16] <LastTalon> Correct. They're different requests.[20:35:46] <LastTalon> post.php?id=1 is different from post.php?id=2[20:36:10] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[20:36:59] <LastTalon> And you can always make your request with different arguments.[20:37:40] <LastTalon> So if your version is an argument they can request it with something like ?v=2 or ?v=3, but if they just hit refresh then they're going to get the same version (and it will be cached)[20:38:08] <LastTalon> In fact, if all you care about is getting the update you don't even need to program anything special on the server end, you can simply append a useless argument.[20:38:24] <LastTalon> Literally just ?1 ?2 ?3 ?4 etc.[20:38:32] <LastTalon> It doesn't need to correspond to the version or anything.[20:38:53] *** realtime <realtime!realtime@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/realtime> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[20:39:22] <LastTalon> But that wouldn't guarantee the most recent version still.[20:43:54] *** LunarJetman2 <LunarJetman2!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has joined #gamedev[20:46:12] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[20:49:16] <brainzap2> uff I cant concentrate if pulse is running around naked, someone shoot him[20:50:02] * Prestige shoots pulse in the left foot[20:50:42] <pulse> stop shooting at me[20:50:46] <pulse> i bring news from afar[20:51:22] <Prestige> NEWS what is it pulse[20:51:54] <pulse> i forgot[20:52:43] <Prestige> ok well at least put some pants on, you're distracting brainzap2[20:52:53] <pulse> roger that[20:53:05] <pulse> i will put on a pikachu costume instea[20:53:06] <pulse> d[20:59:38] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[21:00:38] <sebbu> but you can invite some girls to run around naked, it will motivate some of us[21:01:48] <Prestige> but can they write code?[21:02:25] *** terminx <terminx!~terminx@173-16-252-156.client.mchsi.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[21:02:59] *** terminx <terminx!~terminx@173-16-252-156.client.mchsi.com> has joined #gamedev[21:03:12] <mijowh> priorities ^[21:03:51] <sebbu> ^^"[21:07:38] <sebbu> they can sit around (on my lap?) naked and write code if they want[21:07:46] <sebbu> <-- not difficult[21:08:21] <Prestige> as they sit naked on our laps berating us for writing spaghetti code[21:08:28] <Prestige> night ruined[21:08:35] <sebbu> doesn't matter, you're my tester[21:08:43] <sebbu> :D[21:08:47] <Prestige> ok but i won't sit on your lap[21:08:48] <sebbu> debug that ![21:09:04] <Prestige> what are u working on btw sebbu ?[21:09:12] <sebbu> getting motivation[21:09:21] <Prestige> LOL that's funny me too[21:09:49] <Prestige> Thinking of working on some open source projects[21:10:29] <sebbu> thinking of continueing some stalled project[21:11:10] <brainzap2> haha, good jokes m8[21:11:26] <sebbu> stalled *personnal* project[21:12:31] <Prestige> wbu brainzap2[21:14:33] <brainzap2> oh shit time to sleep, so I am fit tomorrow on my job[21:16:51] <sebbu> sleep ? that works too[21:17:00] <sebbu> i usually prefer coffee though[21:22:59] <LastTalon> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wUOUmeulNs[21:24:48] <mijowh> wtf[21:25:00] <LastTalon> Apparently atlassian removed their original upload of that. Lol[21:25:28] <mijowh> the looks on their faces, so serious[21:25:43] <LastTalon> This is a professional development technique, mijowh.[21:28:19] <sebbu> "professional"[21:28:20] <sebbu> PR[21:28:43] <sebbu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg[21:29:39] <LastTalon> I'll see your experts and up you a "What is a Photocopier?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbqAMEwtOE[21:30:17] <sebbu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z_s4fCbivE this is what i want when i ask for an intern[21:31:21] <Prestige> oh my god sebbu that first link you posted[21:31:25] <Prestige> is so damn true lmao[21:31:41] <sebbu> :D[21:32:41] <LastTalon> I still would like to know what a photocopier is.[21:34:55] <sebbu> well, first it isn't gas-powered[21:34:55] <sebbu> :D[21:38:12] <LastTalon> Sometimes you can't make this stuff up.[21:38:39] <mijowh> "what if we draw them with blue ink?"[21:38:48] <LastTalon> mijowh, no....[21:39:56] <mupf> sebbu that expert sketch.[21:40:02] <mupf> It's so good, it hurts[21:40:05] <mupf> Badly.[21:40:14] <LastTalon> Its too accurate.[21:40:27] <mupf> Yes. Exactly.[21:40:29] <Prestige> seriously[21:40:45] <mupf> It's project management vs engineering. Basically.[21:41:17] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[21:41:42] <sebbu> but they still didn't gave me the intern i wanted[21:41:42] <sebbu> :([21:41:57] <mijowh> lol, its great[21:42:02] <LastTalon> "This is a triangle..."[21:43:04] <Prestige> my work had me create a full website within sharepoint[21:43:16] <Prestige> with only permissions to upload files and I had to do it in notepad[21:43:27] * Prestige has ptsd[21:43:59] <sebbu> I remember the shared hoster services when we didn't had ftp access[21:44:30] <sebbu> had to either use frontpage extensions (webdav) or connect to the web gui and upload the file in the <input type=file fields[21:44:36] * sebbu has ptsd too[21:45:08] <mupf> A few days ago I had to read out a CPUs internal temperature sensor according to the given software specifications. In 0.1°C. So I looked up the technical specifications first. They where like : the internal sensor is only to determine change, not the exact temperature. I also had to use the ADC and some values based on the approx room temperature + some weird calculations. I called project management and[21:45:10] <mupf> asked: I can give you that, are you sure on the specs? Well... yes, I had to implement it in 0.1°C.[21:45:27] <mupf> In the end I took the approx value in °C and multiplied it by 10[21:45:55] *** Oddity <Oddity!~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity> has quit IRC ()[21:46:02] <mupf> Experts.[21:46:08] <mupf> Love them.[21:46:13] <Prestige> lol[21:46:24] <mijowh> this is fantastic[21:46:48] <LastTalon> After all. You're an expert.[21:47:10] <mupf> Well, I asked my team leader first.[21:47:17] <sebbu> well, i had to maintain (fix a bug) in a VB6 application[21:47:22] <sebbu> that was in 2015[21:47:35] <mupf> His first reaction: just multiply it[21:47:39] <mijowh> "of course i can, i can do anything. Im an expert"[21:47:49] <LastTalon> You can do absolutely anything.[21:49:11] <Prestige> he should've just drawn them in 7 dimensions[21:49:17] <mupf> Yep. In the end. Everyone can be an adventure. Even with an arrow in the knee.[21:49:27] <sebbu> vb6 was released in 98 was stopped being supported in 2008[21:49:33] <mupf> Oh wow.[21:49:34] <LastTalon> Prestige, exactly.[21:49:37] <LastTalon> You wouldn't be able to see them.[21:49:42] <LastTalon> But they'd be perpendicular.[21:49:58] <LastTalon> And he could even tell them he drew them with that green and transparent ink.[21:51:16] <Prestige> all these people thinking inside the box[21:51:20] <Prestige> tisk tisk[21:52:08] <sebbu> that still doesn't beat using access 2.0 (released in 94, end of life in 2000) in 2007[21:52:25] <sebbu> wait, it does beat it[21:52:25] <Prestige> how bout in 2019?[21:52:43] <sebbu> nah, now they started replacing that access 2.0 app with a web version[21:52:57] <sebbu> as for the vb6 application... it's in C#.NET now[21:53:48] <sebbu> in 2019... hum... i still have a debian4 server[21:54:30] <sebbu> for budget reasons[21:54:41] <sebbu> (it's planned for replace, but the costs has increased)[21:55:22] <mijowh> HAHAHA "what do you call that machine!?" "uh, xerox"[21:55:53] <LastTalon> mijowh, I see you finally watched it. :P[21:56:16] <sebbu> mijowh, we had SUN machines[21:56:26] <mijowh> that was fantastic. is that actually from a court record?[21:57:05] <LastTalon> Yeah.[21:57:15] <LastTalon> Its an actual deposition from the court records.[21:58:33] <mijowh> i love this planet[21:59:34] <Prestige> wait which vid link was this[21:59:58] <mijowh> (04:29:39 PM) LastTalon: I'll see your experts and up you a "What is a Photocopier?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbqAMEwtOE[22:02:27] *** unlimiter <unlimiter!~unlimiter@105.157.218.40> has joined #gamedev[22:02:36] <sebbu> mijowh, that's why i have absolute confidence in humanity('s stupidity) :D[22:03:15] <Prestige> this sounds like he's straight up trolling lmao[22:03:46] <LastTalon> This is what happens when a lawyer over-coaches a witness.[22:03:58] <sebbu> this is lawyer trolling[22:03:59] <mijowh> his lawyer is proud[22:04:04] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[22:04:10] <LastTalon> Its actually bad for him.[22:04:11] <sebbu> the diable's advocate[22:04:20] <LastTalon> His witness is building an untrustworthy character.[22:04:23] <mijowh> is it? idfk lol[22:04:34] <LastTalon> Because he won't answer a very simple and straightforward question.[22:04:37] <sebbu> the devil's advocate*[22:05:19] <LastTalon> (Basically it makes it sound like he might be lying)[22:05:40] <Prestige> yeah lol this ishilarious[22:07:59] <sebbu> is lying by ommission lying ?[22:08:36] <sebbu> (ie, should you say everything, from the time you were born until now, including everything you did alone, everything you thought, etc... ?)[22:09:19] <Prestige> in court or in general?[22:10:19] <LastTalon> If you're asking about a deposition (or a trial) no, you only have to answer the question asked, nothing more.[22:10:33] <Prestige> ^[22:12:29] <LastTalon> Basically (from the perspective of the lawyers) the one lawyer is asking a question about the witnesses opinion, but the other lawyer doesn't think it should be asked.[22:13:02] <sebbu> well, they forbid to photocopy, but what if i only scan and read it on computer[22:13:10] <LastTalon> In a trial this isn't allowed because this witness isn't an expert, so his opinion is irrelevant, but its a deposition and any questions that could lead to further discovery are allowed.[22:13:11] <sebbu> it's not a photocopy because it's not printed again[22:13:12] <sebbu> :D[22:13:46] <LastTalon> Normally in a trial only expert opinions are relevant.[22:13:53] <sebbu> then i make a pdf/epub and distribute it[22:14:01] <sebbu> still not printed[22:14:02] <sebbu> :D[22:14:06] <mijowh> that poor expert[22:14:09] <LastTalon> "Would you say this is a photocopier?"[22:14:10] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[22:14:11] <mijowh> "well, thatd make a triangle"[22:14:35] <LastTalon> But the point of a deposition is not to prove a case, but discovery.[22:14:45] <LastTalon> Asking a non-expert opinion can lead to further discovery.[22:14:46] <Prestige> why is this such good programming music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlsKhAZqQf0&list=PLFoTyBUJqCMIkz42koogp9F3Vji-xTRuc&index=1[22:14:48] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:39ed:c833:1fd6:ada4> has joined #gamedev[22:15:08] <LastTalon> (There are a lot fewer objections you can make during a deposition)[22:15:19] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-134-150.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[22:15:31] <LastTalon> And no, I have no idea why I study so much law.[22:15:36] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-134-150.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #gamedev[22:15:36] <LastTalon> :P[22:16:09] <R2robot> Prestige: WAY too upbeat for me[22:16:18] <R2robot> for programming anyway[22:18:49] <mijowh> my programming background noise is usually either whatever is on the radio, whatever is on the news, or the simpsons[22:19:29] <LastTalon> Futurama is pretty great.[22:19:38] <mijowh> i mean, who wants to take the time to put together a playlist or actually put thought into the noise source[22:19:44] <mijowh> thats time taken from writing[22:19:51] <LastTalon> I like noisli as well.[22:19:54] <mijowh> not like you really pay attention to it[22:20:53] <Prestige> Yeah it's pretty upbeat[22:21:06] <Prestige> good 80s-esq music[22:26:03] <R2robot> I like something with narration[22:26:15] <R2robot> prefferably something i've already watched[22:26:29] <R2robot> like Planet Earth or something[22:27:51] <mijowh> yes R2, random docus are also a common choice for me[22:27:54] <mijowh> blue planet[22:28:00] <mijowh> planet earth[22:28:01] <mijowh> horizon[22:28:07] <R2robot> mhmm[22:28:09] <Prestige> I wrote a ton of code watching dexter[22:28:20] <Prestige> although I stopped actually paying attention so idek what happened in that show[22:28:25] <mijowh> hehe[22:28:30] <mijowh> thats why i do shows ive already seen[22:28:51] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:39ed:c833:1fd6:ada4> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:28:59] <Prestige> "you are the sun" is so good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFW_2Vo1kIM&index=7&list=PLFoTyBUJqCMIkz42koogp9F3Vji-xTRuc[22:29:05] <mijowh> its mainly for background nosie and for those moments when you look up from your editor and take a breath "oh look, thats interesting"[22:30:01] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:9d4e:d092:30f:40e> has joined #gamedev[22:34:23] <R2robot> yeah. the even tone of the talking is soothing. and I can tune in/out without worrying that I'm missing anything because I've already seen it.[22:34:47] *** unlimiter <unlimiter!~unlimiter@105.157.218.40> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)[22:34:49] <R2robot> and with the narration, I can picture what is happening without looking since I've already seen it :D[22:40:38] <LastTalon> Planet earth, blue planet, life.[22:40:44] <LastTalon> I've been quite liking Round Planet as well.[22:40:50] <mijowh> one strange rock[22:40:54] <LastTalon> Anyone else like Round Planet?[22:40:54] <mijowh> orbit[22:40:56] <mijowh> cosmos[22:41:08] <mijowh> not sure ive seen that one[22:41:16] <LastTalon> Its the one narrated by Matt Lucas[22:41:21] <mijowh> is that the flat earth one?[22:41:25] <LastTalon> No.[22:41:27] <mijowh> i made it through like 3 mins and gave up[22:41:28] <LastTalon> Its a comedy one.[22:41:29] <mijowh> lol[22:41:58] <LastTalon> It uses a bunch of the footage from planet earth and the others[22:42:15] <LastTalon> But Matt Lucas Narrates it in a beautiful way.[22:42:43] <LastTalon> Its really good.[22:42:48] <mijowh> looks neat yeah[22:42:54] <mijowh> & its on netflix :P[22:42:57] <LastTalon> Yes.[22:43:13] <LastTalon> Netflix satisfies my documentary fix.[22:43:39] <mijowh> that and topdocumentaryfilms[22:43:40] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:9d4e:d092:30f:40e> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:44:05] <mijowh> oh, yall seen that new prime channel, CuriousityStream?[22:44:17] <mijowh> good stuffs there too[22:44:51] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164> has joined #gamedev[22:49:10] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has joined #gamedev[23:21:54] *** sebbu <sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu> has quit IRC (Quit: Quitte)[23:27:34] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:dc1b:4217:eab2:e59e> has joined #gamedev[23:31:01] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[23:42:04] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[23:46:52] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:1a:c171:3ee7:9c4a:6828:3ea8> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[23:49:36] *** sebbu <sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu> has joined #gamedev[23:52:48] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:2d76:f826:12e3:5ed0> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset 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