March 23, 2019 
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March 23, 2019 [00:04:26] *** rindolf <rindolf!~shlomif@77.126.109.232> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[00:25:29] *** _DB <_DB!68375605@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.55.86.5> has joined #gamedev[00:28:07] *** LastTalon <LastTalon!~LastTalon@cpe-24-208-55-58.new.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[00:28:21] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[00:51:46] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has joined #gamedev[00:56:55] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:2184:1fb6:34a1:2b17> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:04:17] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[01:26:48] *** freefork_afk is now known as freestyledork[01:44:48] *** aeth <aeth!~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[01:46:54] *** aeth <aeth!~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn> has joined #gamedev[01:48:11] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[01:48:25] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Quit: the cheetahmen ran off... and now ... the cheetahmen)[01:54:30] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[02:01:25] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-178-012-113-051.178.012.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[02:17:42] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:20:09] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[02:25:03] <notchris> Sup[02:25:49] <mijowh> nm[02:26:13] <notchris> nice[02:26:30] <notchris> Im trying to figure out the best place to start to learn C# / unity[02:26:43] <mijowh> proably the 'getting started' page[02:26:45] <mijowh> :P[02:37:18] <baudejogos> ew[02:45:10] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[02:53:55] *** _DB <_DB!68375605@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.55.86.5> has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)[02:54:19] *** _DB <_DB!68375605@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.55.86.5> has joined #gamedev[02:55:07] <Twipply> If one of my engine headers includes something from another library, the user is going to need to get that library also[02:55:25] <Twipply> I could put something between my engine and said library though[02:55:27] <Twipply> Is there a term for that?[02:55:42] <mijowh> is it a shared lib or static[02:56:01] <Twipply> just some source files[02:56:06] <Twipply> headers only[02:58:01] <mijowh> you could, if its statically linked (a libfoo.a vs a libfoo.so) then you could include the lib in your engine only in your source files, then when you link your binary blob together for the engine, it will pull in any symbols the linker needs from that lib. however when a user say includes your engine.hpp file, it wont actually include the headers for said internal lib into the user code[02:58:22] <mijowh> if its shared, you can do the same thing pretty much, however your users WILL have to pass appropriate linker flags (-lcrypto, etc)[02:59:16] <mijowh> this gets into how your linking your binaries together and such. are you external libs shared or static, is YOUR engine shared or static?[02:59:35] <mijowh> this will all effect how the users need to interact[02:59:52] <mijowh> feel free to pm me if you have any questions about it[03:00:19] <mijowh> if its header-only lib (like glm) that your using, id include the glm headers in my engine's source files[03:00:20] <Twipply> Mostly just curious if such a thing has a specific name[03:00:32] <mijowh> the glm headers wont be visible to the user, but your engine code will work fine[03:00:47] <mijowh> thats kinda like statically linking in that sense[03:00:51] <mijowh> in a way[03:02:44] <mijowh> getting used to the compilation/linking process in c/c++ can be a little unintuitive at first[03:03:54] <mijowh> like, personally i choose to link my engine together statically. the binary is fairly small.[03:04:13] *** Orion] <Orion]!~H0i@unaffiliated/orion/x-3970838> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[03:04:20] <mijowh> shared libs are useful for larger code bases, where you dont want to include 800Mb of Qt in your final .exe[03:04:39] <mijowh> however those libs need to be present on the users pc for them to link dynamically[03:04:49] <Twipply> It's a shared object[03:05:15] <mijowh> your engine is, or the lib youre trying to use in your engine?[03:05:21] <Twipply> My engine is[03:05:28] <Twipply> The library is just some header files[03:05:32] <mijowh> alright, and the lib your using is a header-only[03:06:00] <mijowh> now, do the users actually need access to said library functions? or is that all wrapped up by your engine?[03:07:16] <mijowh> like, if it were glm, do your users need to use the glm library themselves, say to use glm::vec3 or something, or do you have Engine::Vector3 that wraps said behaviour in your own code. hypothetically ofcourse, glm is a good example of header lib[03:07:34] <Twipply> Haven't done anything as of yet[03:07:48] <Twipply> It's just an ECS thing[03:07:59] <mijowh> alrighty, so what i would do, ideally is to only #include the header library in your engines .cpp files[03:07:59] <Twipply> I typed include ecs and then threw an ECS variable into the engine class[03:08:11] <mijowh> the headerlib WONT be available to users[03:08:24] <mijowh> however your engine code can make use of it just fine[03:08:36] <Twipply> Don't see how I can avoid putting it in a header[03:09:56] <mijowh> maybe this will help, this snippet is from my networking system, a source file (.cpp) https://pastebin.com/3W8R0nEp[03:10:03] <mijowh> you can see i include the openssl headers[03:10:14] <mijowh> now, the users have no idea that openssl is being used specifically[03:10:27] <mijowh> because i didnt include them in MY headers, i included them in my SOURCE files[03:10:39] <Twipply> Yet the ECS is within the engine class[03:10:46] <Twipply> the engine class needs to be exposed to the user[03:10:50] <Twipply> It's in a header file, thus so is the ECS[03:11:13] <mijowh> so the header library your using supplies your ECS behaviour?[03:11:23] <Twipply> Sure does[03:11:48] <mijowh> your users will ~probably~ need to use it directly then, especially if it uses templates heavily and such, include the headers into your set of headers.[03:12:30] <mijowh> unless you wrap all the functionality yourself, but that might just be a pointless redundancy[03:12:49] <Twipply> That's what the original question is about[03:13:01] <Twipply> I thought it might just be a wrapper, but googling such proves difficult[03:13:02] <mijowh> sorry, maybe i misunderstood[03:13:25] <Twipply> The idea was I could include the library in a source file and just write functions to pass things through[03:13:32] <mijowh> you could.[03:13:39] <Twipply> int engine_thing() {return library_thing();}[03:13:39] <mijowh> thats what i lean towards myself[03:13:40] <Twipply> etc[03:13:45] <mijowh> mhm[03:13:58] <Twipply> then my engine's headers would just expose int engine_thing();[03:14:13] <Twipply> I just wondered if such a technique had a name[03:14:15] <mijowh> yeah thats how youd do it[03:14:33] <mijowh> uhm, wrapping? i dont think theres a special term for it, not that im familiar with[03:14:52] <mijowh> but what you described is totally valid 100%[03:14:59] <Twipply> I thought wrapper, google spewed a bunch of bs about extern C blah blah[03:15:06] <Twipply> So I was just making sure[03:15:10] <Twipply> before trying to google further[03:15:19] <mijowh> ah, yeah that can get funky.[03:15:29] <mijowh> in this case, you probably dont need to declare anything extern or some such[03:15:46] <Twipply> I took a blood oath to never use extern[03:16:12] <mijowh> i use it in one place[03:16:23] <mijowh> has to do with emscripten though, its pretty specific[03:17:50] <mijowh> really, what you said about (10:13:39 PM) Twipply: int engine_thing() {return library_thing();}[03:17:51] <mijowh> (10:13:40 PM) Twipply: etc[03:17:51] <mijowh> (10:13:45 PM) mijowh: mhm[03:17:51] <mijowh> (10:13:58 PM) Twipply: then my engine's headers would just expose int engine_thing();[03:17:56] <mijowh> is pretty straightforward[03:18:10] <mijowh> shouldnt be any quirks there tbh, just a bit of tedium while wrapping all the functions you need[03:18:17] <mijowh> but thats what id do, personally[03:18:40] <Twipply> That is essentially what I was wondering about concerning the engine's API fyi[03:18:49] <Twipply> If I could do similar for the things I want to expose[03:18:53] <Twipply> and then just give that header file[03:19:16] <mijowh> yes, you can do that, imo, i think you should do that[03:20:14] <mijowh> hope that helped, lol vOv[03:21:12] <Twipply> The function stuff seems easy, I'm a bit lost as for the types though[03:21:48] <Twipply> like the ECS class[03:25:02] <mijowh> you can wrap objects very similarly to wrapping a function. say in header struct EngineECS { void* internalECS; /*other declarations*/}; in source: #include <fooecslibrary> internalECS = (void*)libraryECSclassthingy; //something along those lines maybe[03:25:05] <mijowh> does that make sense?[03:25:42] <mijowh> as the library declarations arent visible in your header or to user, casting to void* lets you kinda keep that arbitrary[03:25:45] <mijowh> thatd be private ofc[03:26:15] <mijowh> there are other techniques too, thats just like the uber-naive straightforward way to do it in five lines[03:26:54] <Twipply> Yeah, to specify when I said I had no idea[03:26:57] <Twipply> I meant without the pointer magic[03:27:13] <mijowh> id have to see the code to be more helpful[03:27:15] <Twipply> Feels a little gross[03:27:17] <mijowh> it does[03:27:23] <mijowh> lol[03:29:13] <mijowh> the reasoning behind that is say your EngineECS class need to wrap LibraryECS class. in header you cant just say class EngineECS { LibraryECS internal; }; because the LibraryECS type isnt declared outside of your source .cpp file[03:29:33] <mijowh> so you cast it to some arbitrary memory and voila[03:29:40] <Twipply> Quite[03:31:27] <immibis> if it's a pointer you can forward-declare the type[03:31:33] <mijowh> now, if its say, one global instance of libraryECS, you could say in source #include <library> LibraryECS internal; and use that globalscope internal in your source file[03:31:33] <immibis> there is no need to use void* for that[03:32:14] <mijowh> that too, but if the library has say, a bunch of nested namespaces, that could get a bit wordy, and possibly pollute the users global namespace with symbols that they dont recognize and never use[03:32:50] <mijowh> but also 100% valid[03:32:58] <mijowh> like i said, theres like, a bunch of ways to go about that[03:36:25] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:502e:61b7:f448:b5e5> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[03:39:48] <mijowh> another option: anonymous namespaces to contain your forward declarations[03:40:02] <mijowh> that would prevent global namespace pollution, and avoid any "pointer magic"[03:50:07] <Twipply> I dunno how forward declaring it would look like[03:51:49] <mijowh> a forward declaration is essentially: { class Foo; void Bar(Foo* foo); class Foo{/**/actual definition of class}; }[03:53:02] <mijowh> you can use the type without defining it[03:54:05] <mijowh> using an anonymous namespace { class Foo; } will limit this declaration to within the file, so that you can use the Foo object in the same header, say to replace that void* with LibraryECS type[03:54:30] <mijowh> but outside of file, the symbol wont be declared: i.e, users dont know theres a type called LibraryECS at all, unless they dig through the header[03:54:36] <mijowh> and then all they see is a forward declaration[03:55:58] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-178-012-113-051.178.012.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: refs)[04:00:33] <Twipply> I think I get the general idea but I don't see how to use this[04:00:48] <sebbu> I remember forward declaration works great to make compilation faster, through the use of precompiled headers[04:05:57] <sebbu> and if you do it well, you can even prevent to have to parse system headers everywhere[04:10:27] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #gamedev[04:12:11] *** baudejogos <baudejogos!~sjw@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[04:27:49] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[04:27:51] *** freestyledork_ <freestyledork_!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has joined #gamedev[04:28:06] *** rewind__ <rewind__!~rewind@2a01:e35:87d1:600:f472:3847:166b:89ab> has joined #gamedev[04:28:12] *** RoadKillGrill_ <RoadKillGrill_!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[04:28:56] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #gamedev[04:32:14] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[04:32:14] *** rewind_ <rewind_!~rewind@2a01:e35:87d1:600:f472:3847:166b:89ab> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[04:32:14] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[04:38:15] *** freestyledork_ is now known as freestyledork[04:40:58] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[04:41:51] *** c4ntelope <c4ntelope!~cantelope@143.sub-174-214-37.myvzw.com> has joined #gamedev[04:44:25] *** cantelope <cantelope!~cantelope@54.sub-174-215-41.myvzw.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[04:50:00] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[05:00:50] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[05:07:35] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[05:32:32] *** RoadKillGrill_ <RoadKillGrill_!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[05:41:46] *** universecoder <universecoder!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has joined #gamedev[06:28:37] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:2d88:e697:324d:f4e9> has joined #gamedev[07:27:34] <LastTalon> So uhh... what do you call the aspect of game design that involves things like game balance, stats, and core mechanics?[07:27:42] <LastTalon> I've run into a bit of an organizational roadblock.[07:33:36] <LastTalon> Or is this just another one of those things we don't actually have a term for because our industry is really bad at making useful terms?[07:36:44] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@077213097222.dynamic.telenor.dk> has joined #gamedev[07:48:43] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has quit IRC (Quit: 0x80)[07:59:08] <R2robot> well they're all a part of game design.[07:59:34] <R2robot> each one could be it's own sub-group under the game design umbrella[08:03:35] <LastTalon> Well so could level design.[08:03:50] <LastTalon> I get too frustrated that these things don't have more specific terms.[08:04:48] <LastTalon> It gets in the way of me organizing and planning my work despite the fact that I'll be doing all these jobs myself anyway.[08:04:58] <R2robot> hehe[08:05:44] <R2robot> level design is part of game design, but at the same time, you have to balance a level, give it some core mechanics, etc. :D[08:05:51] <R2robot> circular :D[08:06:03] <R2robot> but I see what you mean, I think[08:06:17] <LastTalon> I mean to say the difference between mechanics specific to a level as opposed to those applicable to the game as a whole independent of level.[08:06:31] <R2robot> another sub group :D[08:07:47] <LastTalon> Better terms. >:([08:10:04] <LastTalon> It appears I'm not the only one who has this gripe of level design vs. other areas of game design.[08:15:18] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:b941:363d:2bc6:e48b> has joined #gamedev[08:16:59] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[08:24:17] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[08:42:13] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[08:43:41] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:1a:c171:3ee7:9c4a:6828:3ea8> has joined #gamedev[08:44:23] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[08:46:37] <LastTalon> There does tend to be this heavy focus on level design as game design.[08:47:20] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[09:13:42] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[09:16:53] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[09:16:53] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[09:20:14] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@077213097222.dynamic.telenor.dk> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[09:22:36] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[09:42:46] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has joined #gamedev[09:52:56] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA03100099A6C5A1A7A73837.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Of course we scientists have our little secrets. For instance, the moon is in Spain. Another: stars aren't real. Also, cells are huge. One cell is roughly the size of a marble.)[10:00:19] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[10:00:23] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:b941:363d:2bc6:e48b> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[10:00:47] *** batman_nair <batman_nair!~batman_na@111.92.74.224> has joined #gamedev[10:01:02] *** batman_nair <batman_nair!~batman_na@111.92.74.224> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[10:18:20] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[10:23:54] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[10:24:29] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[10:45:55] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has joined #gamedev[11:38:52] <Donitzo> ah, finally a good nights sleep[11:39:26] <Donitzo> Work work work![12:22:53] <toxictype> I added Dick Kickem in my gme.[12:33:07] <R2robot> gamedev on weekends? ___Yes ___No[12:47:46] *** aly777 <aly777!~kes777@50-242-177-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #gamedev[13:00:24] <toxictype> I added an ice world also.[13:25:13] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[13:28:28] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@077213097222.dynamic.telenor.dk> has joined #gamedev[13:41:06] *** universecoder <universecoder!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[13:42:28] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[13:48:33] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has joined #gamedev[13:50:23] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[14:10:11] <Donitzo> everyone hates ice worlds[14:10:20] <Donitzo> everyone hates water worlds[14:10:25] <Donitzo> everyone hates waterworld[14:55:30] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@amos.zurich.fablab.ch> has joined #gamedev[14:55:57] <sebbu> no[14:56:06] <sebbu> there's some nice movies with ice or water worlds[14:56:10] *** cantelope <cantelope!~cantelope@54.sub-174-215-41.myvzw.com> has joined #gamedev[14:57:12] *** c4ntelope <c4ntelope!~cantelope@143.sub-174-214-37.myvzw.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[15:00:32] <R2robot> The Thing[15:01:53] <R2robot> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p35JDJLa9ec[15:09:10] <brainzap> Waterworld[15:10:31] *** c4ntelope <c4ntelope!~cantelope@54.sub-174-215-41.myvzw.com> has joined #gamedev[15:12:58] *** cantelope <cantelope!~cantelope@54.sub-174-215-41.myvzw.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[15:17:23] <R2robot> waterworld was 50/50[15:17:44] <R2robot> people seemed to love it or hate it[15:17:54] *** c4ntelope is now known as cantelope[15:20:39] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[15:22:52] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[15:24:42] <o][o> tina turner[15:24:46] <o][o> lolol[15:27:51] <sebbu> R2robot, i know a movie realisator thats the same, ppl either love him or hate him[15:27:53] <sebbu> uwe boll[15:28:06] <sebbu> (the guy that did many videogames adaptation to the cinema)[15:28:07] <o][o> he is only to be hated[15:28:14] <o][o> he only makes shit[15:28:19] <sebbu> see[15:28:24] <sebbu> that just prove my point[15:28:24] <sebbu> :D[15:28:38] <o][o> no reason to love this walking (rolling?) piece of crap[15:28:45] <sebbu> :D[15:29:13] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has joined #gamedev[15:29:24] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[15:29:34] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[16:09:55] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[16:10:41] <R2robot> not a fair sample though. o][o hates everything[16:11:26] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[16:11:35] <pulse> geralt of rivia[16:19:25] *** diwr <diwr!~diwr@unaffiliated/diwr> has joined #gamedev[16:19:49] <toxictype> My game has powder that makes you say "yes".[16:19:55] <toxictype> When you pick it up Dick Kickem says "Yes".[16:20:39] <pulse> isn't this the plot to a monty python sketch[16:20:51] <toxictype> https://i.snag.gy/p3XNeZ.jpg[16:21:26] <pulse> nice[16:21:40] <pulse> are those gold nuggets[16:21:50] <toxictype> Its chungus[16:26:46] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:2d88:e697:324d:f4e9> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:35:46] <R2robot> https://demoman.net/?a=trig-for-games[16:35:51] <R2robot> it's cute[16:40:41] <Donitzo> trigonometry[16:40:49] <Donitzo> one of the few fun topics in highschool math[16:40:58] <Donitzo> or was that long math[16:41:46] <Donitzo> 1500 kb, F[16:41:51] <Donitzo> b*[16:41:54] <Donitzo> B*[16:46:53] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@amos.zurich.fablab.ch> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[16:56:34] <o][o> R2robot: hey! that triggy site is cool!!![16:56:58] <R2robot> who are you and what have you done with the real o][o ?![16:57:08] <o][o> he is banging your mom :D[16:57:28] <R2robot> Dad?[17:10:56] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:bd9c:a0b:4f1a:587> has joined #gamedev[17:12:35] *** cidic <cidic!~cidic@c-73-173-42-76.hsd1.md.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[17:18:16] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-178-012-046-133.178.012.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[17:18:30] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Quit: fufme)[17:32:37] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has joined #gamedev[17:34:06] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined #gamedev[17:39:36] *** aly777 <aly777!~kes777@50-242-177-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[17:45:03] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[18:04:36] *** cidic <cidic!~cidic@c-73-173-42-76.hsd1.md.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: cidic)[18:06:05] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined #gamedev[18:25:55] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[18:32:22] *** Iolo <Iolo!~iolo@dsl-tkubng22-58c023-38.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.1 - http://znc.in)[18:33:35] *** Iolo <Iolo!~iolo@dsl-tkubng22-58c023-38.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #gamedev[18:35:50] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has joined #gamedev[18:37:36] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has joined #gamedev[18:40:41] <mijowh> R2robot: neat trig site[18:40:48] <mijowh> also, good 'noon folks[18:41:37] <Donitzo> god[18:41:42] <Donitzo> #javascript never ceases to dissapoint :P[18:41:43] <mijowh> i never took a trig class before, think i get the idea of it tho[18:42:28] <mijowh> i use trig a bit in my code even though i never really 'learned' it in a school[18:42:59] <mijowh> like for calculating the positions of an icosahedrons vertices[18:52:02] * mijowh starts lurking in #javascript to see what Donitzo is talking about[18:52:33] <Donitzo> oh I'm just tired of people being unable to decude even the slightest meaning outside of their comfort zone[18:52:42] <Donitzo> deduce*[18:53:10] <Donitzo> "this code isn't in 100% in alignment with my coding style therefore I am unable to understand. I am a machine beep boop"[18:53:23] <mijowh> lol[18:56:31] <mijowh> i dont really use javascript if i can avoid it[18:57:25] <Donitzo> javascript is pretty fun[18:57:31] <Donitzo> it's like a toy language[18:58:13] <Donitzo> that's right python you aren't the favorite anymore[18:58:35] *** crocal <crocal!~alex@stc92-5-78-204-104-33.fbx.proxad.net> has joined #gamedev[19:00:09] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[19:00:48] <mijowh> ik javascript is much more capable then alot of people give it credit for[19:04:13] <mijowh> like i compile my native code to javascript using emscripten, so while i dont write the js myself, it runs real well. clearly capable[19:04:37] <mijowh> although that might be some sort of browser optimizations specifically for asm.js and such[19:05:12] * mijowh is not a webdev[19:06:50] <brainzap> I AMN WEBDEV[19:06:59] <brainzap> show me the moonies[19:08:41] <mijowh> mm moonies[19:09:04] <mijowh> my brain went to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_pie[19:10:14] *** crocal <crocal!~alex@stc92-5-78-204-104-33.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)[19:14:07] <Donitzo> looks dry and gross[19:14:39] <Donitzo> https://www.amazon.com/Nestle-Lion-White-Chocolate-England/dp/B005ANZUFC[19:14:41] <Donitzo> I crave this[19:15:08] <mijowh> a 6 pack for $16?[19:15:09] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has joined #gamedev[19:15:18] <mijowh> moonpies are like 50cents. pfft[19:15:19] <Donitzo> I got 4 for 2 euro[19:15:53] <mijowh> and theyre kinda like chocolate-covered smores[19:16:54] <Donitzo> you know white chocolate is superior[19:17:06] <mijowh> did this just get racial?[19:17:20] <Donitzo> it's white and chocolate so it cancels out[19:17:24] <mijowh> lol[19:23:12] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-134-150.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #gamedev[19:38:21] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[19:39:20] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has joined #gamedev[19:43:34] *** freestyledork_ <freestyledork_!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has joined #gamedev[19:46:39] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[19:46:43] *** freestyledork_ is now known as freestyledork[19:57:48] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:58:25] *** kriskropd <kriskropd!~kriskropd@unaffiliated/kriskropd> has joined #gamedev[20:01:44] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[20:05:52] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[20:20:50] <brainzap> Good evening, today we d a license check in this channel, everyone please take out your game engine 2 license. Invalid copies will be fined up to 200 dorrars[20:26:58] <Prestige> Lol[20:27:03] <Prestige> What's up brainzap[20:28:48] <brainzap> just chilling and wasting my Prestige time[20:29:25] <Prestige> Me too I'm on vacation, might go write some code[20:34:06] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[20:42:11] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has joined #gamedev[21:22:38] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[21:41:25] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-134-150.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:42:46] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-134-150.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #gamedev[21:48:05] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[22:05:27] <Donitzo> hmm[22:05:41] <Donitzo> pretty print closure compiler doesn't crush as efficiently as non-pretty print[22:05:50] <Donitzo> interesting[22:06:00] <Donitzo> not very good pre-processing there[22:07:55] <o][o> you don't have a crush?[22:09:08] <LunarJetman> most of the code I am writing involves plenty of recursion: I love writing recursive functions.[22:09:17] <LunarJetman> writing at the moment*[22:09:26] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:11:57] <Donitzo> careful with that stack overflow though[22:12:06] <Donitzo> which is why I tend to avoid recursion[22:12:10] <Donitzo> I can't be bothered to look up the stack size[22:12:22] <LunarJetman> you say that as I if I am a n00b who doesn't know what they are doing.[22:12:33] <Donitzo> no not really[22:13:43] <Prestige> isn't recursion typically slower than an iterative solution?[22:13:48] <Prestige> by like, a lot[22:13:54] <LunarJetman> avoiding recursion because of potential stack overflow is foolish just as avoiding allocating memory because you have finite memory is foolish[22:14:20] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:8d54:d7f1:df0b:bac2> has joined #gamedev[22:14:23] <o][o> wut[22:14:30] <Donitzo> answer is yes and no[22:14:33] <Donitzo> recursion is slower[22:14:36] <Donitzo> and stack overflows happen[22:14:48] <LunarJetman> if a stack overflow happens then you have a bug.[22:14:51] <o][o> :D[22:14:57] <Donitzo> or just a very very very large binary tree[22:15:08] <o][o> :)[22:15:16] <LunarJetman> if the recursion is based on user input then you should limit how deep it can get and throw an exception.[22:15:30] <Donitzo> even slower yet[22:15:35] <Donitzo> adding additional checks[22:16:02] <LunarJetman> just because A is slower than B it doesn't mean you shouldn't use A; stop making fucktarded arguments[22:16:30] <o][o> :DDDDDD[22:16:38] <Donitzo> I'm just having fun on your explosive overreaction[22:16:41] <LunarJetman> is A being slower than B effects the critical path then sure consider not using it but you are making blanket statements that are simply wrong[22:16:47] <LunarJetman> s/is/if/[22:16:52] <o][o> his obtuseness is amazing too[22:17:51] <LunarJetman> performance is but one thing to consider. also, profile. also be aware that only 5% of your code is executing 95% of the time[22:18:13] <LunarJetman> also, get a fucking clue so that you know what you are fucking doing.[22:18:32] <o][o> statistics provided by a highly credible source[22:19:07] <o][o> there is one thing that I can know for sure[22:19:09] <LunarJetman> o][o: so you deny the existence of critical paths? idiot.[22:19:14] <o][o> LunarJetman still did not get laid[22:19:38] <LunarJetman> I can get laid anytime I want mate.[22:19:49] <mijowh> https://www.xkcd.com/244/[22:19:50] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2WzkgkufyE[22:21:37] <Donitzo> 1200 B[22:21:38] <Donitzo> so close[22:22:35] <Donitzo> too bad javascript canvas 2d doesn't allow you to rotate using matrices[22:23:14] <Donitzo> oh wait, apparently you can[22:23:32] <o][o> ofc you can[22:23:35] <Donitzo> ctx.setTransform(angle_cosine, angle_sine, -angle_sine, angle_cosine, x, y);[22:23:45] <Donitzo> hey, blame the documentation[22:23:56] <Donitzo> https://www.w3schools.com/tags/canvas_settransform.asp[22:24:33] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[22:30:11] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[22:33:34] <dav1d> Donitzo: can't call w3schools "documentation"[22:33:53] <Donitzo> yeah yeah I know the whole thing about how evil it is because seo or whatever[22:34:22] <dav1d> it's just incomplete and looks worse than mdn[22:35:21] <Donitzo> mdn doesn't bring up rotation either though[22:35:52] <dav1d> I mean, you see the transformation matrix that gets applied[22:36:05] <Donitzo> 3x3 transformation matrix. I'm not used to those[22:36:12] <dav1d> well it's 2d space[22:36:55] <dav1d> same shit as 3d, just one less everywhere :p[22:38:39] <Donitzo> oh right[22:38:51] <Donitzo> the reason I thought it wasn't possible earlier is because they don't allow you to set the entire thing[22:39:04] <Donitzo> only the first 2 rows[22:40:02] <Donitzo> so it felt like some kind of simplified interface meant for only the specified parameters[22:40:08] <Donitzo> *shrug* whatever[22:51:16] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[22:52:49] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[23:16:38] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[23:24:30] <LunarJetman> the discussion we had earlier has caused me to create the following output: https://github.com/i42output/neolib/commit/1e302dc7c2fd4c1502fd98118759422f557317ed[23:24:56] <LunarJetman> and https://github.com/i42output/neos/commit/91b771815f315651cd5426d7a1f3ba5a95f172bb[23:30:22] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[23:33:18] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UeCkgB1Cu8[23:36:00] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[23:37:48] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@2a02:587:540b:b800:2983:9ae7:cf50:24db> has joined #gamedev[23:52:13] <Prestige> wtf pulse lol[23:52:17] <Prestige> cant even scroll[23:54:53] <pulse> :}[23:56:07] <LunarJetman> that output of mine was bloody rubbish brain fart; better version coming up: