March 20, 2019 
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March 20, 2019 [00:00:07] <wedr_> It would behoove me to post a link to the Visual Studio developers community link for a UI feature suggestion, and ask everyone to help upvote this for priorization., But it probably goes against the spirit of this channel[00:00:20] <mijowh> yeah because who cares about random crashes if it looks pretty[00:01:18] <wedr_> But I know nothing about the importance of the crashes.[00:01:26] <wedr_> They probably "should" take precedence[00:01:56] <mijowh> they should delegate dif categories to different devs[00:01:59] <wedr_> But oh god.... Visual Studio has so many things they could've improve upon, and I wished UI + UX is key aspect of them[00:02:22] <mijowh> have one guy fix the segfault on file export, while another guy prettifies the ui[00:02:40] <wedr_> There is this one feature I requested. It's on the prioritization queue right now. When you see this GIF, you will know it's fucking annoying to watch it.[00:03:17] <wedr_> Dragging and Dropping in the Watch view pane will cause it to duplicate itself. The fix is to re-order the Watched variables up/down[00:03:29] <wedr_> Do you feel annoyed at this?[00:03:39] <mijowh> yes[00:03:47] <wedr_> And right now, it has 3 votes[00:03:59] <wedr_> compared to 81 votes for random crashes that happen so obscurely.[00:04:04] <mijowh> Segfault is more annoying though[00:04:07] <wedr_> True[00:04:21] <wedr_> I'm so tempted to link you to the suggestion. :([00:04:53] <mijowh> i dont use VS so itd be unfair for me to vote on anything[00:05:09] <mijowh> but i totally see where youre coming from there[00:05:21] <wedr_> yeah. Thank you![00:07:29] <Twipply> In Atom if you click "Open Folder" it opens a dialogue called "Open File"[00:07:39] <mijowh> i use atom too[00:07:41] <Twipply> And, you know, won't let you open folders[00:07:43] <wedr_> See that? It's called UX problems[00:07:44] <Twipply> so I have to drag them in[00:07:58] <wedr_> Developers prioritize crashes/bugfixes over UX[00:08:07] <mijowh> and that isnt the case in my atom[00:08:07] <wedr_> It's just saddddd, but I get it[00:08:10] <mijowh> just tried it[00:08:15] <mijowh> what version?[00:08:16] <Twipply> v1.35.0[00:08:25] <mijowh> 1.26.1[00:08:30] <wedr_> :O[00:08:32] <mijowh> for me it works[00:08:36] *** [rg] <[rg]!~ricardo@67-204-254-48.eastlink.ca> has left #gamedev[00:08:40] <wedr_> Twipply: Report it as a bug asap[00:08:45] <mijowh> must be new[00:08:46] <Twipply> Sure, it worked for me too[00:08:47] <Twipply> then I updated[00:09:01] * mijowh is going to wait for the next update[00:10:04] <mijowh> i love atom tho. fav editor[00:10:49] <mijowh> although my c++ autocomplete is utterly useless[00:10:56] <mijowh> but w/e[00:11:00] <Prestige> how about vscode?[00:11:06] <mijowh> never used it[00:11:13] <Twipply> https://github.com/atom/atom/issues/18971[00:11:30] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[00:12:21] <mijowh> 1.35.1 apparantely fixed it[00:12:33] <mijowh> there ya go[00:14:01] *** defk0n <defk0n!8adb8d11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.219.141.17> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[00:14:31] <Twipply> If this ECS thing makes me ragequit hard enough it wouldn't matter anyway[00:14:36] <Twipply> I'll never be opening another project again[00:14:52] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has joined #gamedev[00:15:02] <mijowh> no need to ragequit, your stuff works, doesnt it?[00:15:12] <Twipply> The new one doesn't as of yet[00:15:19] <Twipply> It's not all about just working either[00:15:21] <Twipply> I'd like it to work nicely[00:15:39] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[00:18:37] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:1a:c171:3ee7:9c4a:6828:3ea8> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[00:19:26] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has joined #gamedev[00:20:33] *** Overnumerousness <Overnumerousness!~Overnumer@184-96-175-65.hlrn.qwest.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:29:49] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has joined #gamedev[00:29:52] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-188-102-111-243.188.102.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[00:36:52] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[00:37:44] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-094-222-028-157.094.222.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[00:37:49] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[00:41:40] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[00:42:04] <toxictype> guys guys[00:42:05] <toxictype> https://psychictype.itch.io/sotc[00:49:21] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has quit IRC (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1)[00:52:33] *** Orion] <Orion]!~H0i@unaffiliated/orion/x-3970838> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[00:52:36] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has joined #gamedev[00:56:28] <mijowh> assignment due in four hours[00:56:30] <mijowh> i just started[00:57:43] <mijowh> its one of those assignments that are easily bullshittable though lol[01:05:19] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[01:13:40] <o][o> Twipply: hey[01:13:53] <o][o> I will take a look at your stuff soon[01:13:59] <Twipply> Oh no[01:14:03] <o][o> it is me :)[01:14:07] <Twipply> What stuff did I even link you?[01:14:08] * o][o has many nicks[01:14:12] <Twipply> Oh, right[01:14:15] <Twipply> the pm from earlier?[01:14:18] <o][o> yup[01:14:28] <o][o> blabla/cream :)[01:14:36] <Twipply> Quite[01:14:48] <o][o> nice read.me :P[01:14:50] <Twipply> Get your aids goggles on first[01:14:55] <Twipply> it'll be bad[01:15:03] <o][o> this is supposed to be a library, right?[01:15:06] <o][o> are there test code?[01:15:12] <o][o> *is[01:15:23] <Twipply> engine thingy[01:15:30] <Twipply> Like an actual engine[01:15:47] <Twipply> Dunno if I wrote any tests or not tbh fam[01:15:53] <o][o> 1) use constexpr more[01:15:55] <Twipply> Sadly I last touched it months ago[01:15:58] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[01:16:02] <Twipply> The tutorial I'm following is coming out weekly and it's slow as hell[01:16:13] <Twipply> It's been months 'cus the guy hasn't said anything of value in months[01:16:22] <o][o> avoid passing string by value, unless you have to[01:16:36] <Twipply> If I did that then it was only by mistake[01:16:49] * notchris returns[01:16:52] <notchris> :D[01:17:45] <Twipply> The issue I have is just not knowing how I should design things[01:18:02] <Twipply> Presumably an engine should have an API for stuff, I dunno what should go in it[01:19:03] *** rewind <rewind!~rewind@2a01:e35:87d1:600:dd61:386c:e94d:b9e4> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:19:10] <Twipply> And the guy in the videos goes on about scenes and layers[01:19:10] <mijowh> aaand assignment done, half an hour of BS[01:19:11] <mijowh> woo[01:19:17] <Twipply> I don't really know what the hell those are though[01:19:46] <mijowh> those can be pretty vague terms, it depends on the guys environment. what libs is he using and such like that[01:21:08] <Twipply> I did write an example 'game' along side but it's not in the repo[01:22:16] <Twipply> So yeah, basically I have no idea what I'm doing[01:22:41] <Twipply> much like with this ECS[01:24:50] <o][o> I personally don't like ecs :D[01:25:11] <Twipply> I try not to fanboy things either way[01:25:15] <Twipply> I'm just using it to learn something new[01:25:20] <Twipply> be a better programmer, etc[01:25:49] <Twipply> Right now my template skills are failing me[01:26:01] <mijowh> templates are great[01:26:14] <Twipply> In that case you can fix my issue[01:26:17] <LunarJetman> Twipply: you are making an engine?[01:26:23] <Twipply> Aren't we all[01:26:27] <mijowh> lol[01:26:28] <Twipply> I thought I'd give it a shot, yes[01:26:30] <LunarJetman> well I am[01:26:47] <Twipply> ecs.getEntities<Position, Velocity>()[01:26:49] <Twipply> I need to write this[01:27:07] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[01:27:09] *** code_zombie <code_zombie!~code_zomb@2605:a601:aa1:da00:4cb3:2d2d:1eec:ade5> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[01:27:36] <LunarJetman> no you don't[01:27:39] <o][o> Twipply: you are manually parsing a config file. I did that before too[01:27:40] <Twipply> Totes do[01:27:54] <LunarJetman> Twipply: that is wrong[01:28:02] <Twipply> You got a better idea?[01:28:10] <LunarJetman> yes[01:28:16] <Twipply> So hit me with it[01:28:39] <LunarJetman> position and velocity should be seperated like that[01:28:45] <LunarJetman> shouldn't even[01:29:10] <Twipply> I imagine at some point I'm going to need a system that works on multiple components[01:29:16] <Twipply> the question is going to remain[01:29:30] <Twipply> Unless you think it can & should actually be done with one component per system?[01:29:37] <Twipply> That doesn't seem too right to me[01:29:39] <LunarJetman> no[01:29:39] <Twipply> but I'm no expert[01:29:57] <LunarJetman> I am talking about position and velocity specifically[01:30:12] <Twipply> I'm aware[01:30:21] <Twipply> I'm doing it for this 'cus it's easy to see something moving on the screen[01:30:25] <LunarJetman> my "rigid_body" component: https://github.com/i42output/neoGFX/blob/master/include/neogfx/game/rigid_body.hpp[01:30:28] <Twipply> Maybe later I'd actually merge the two, who knows[01:30:42] <Twipply> Doesn't change the fact that I need a way for systems to work on multiple component types[01:31:42] <o][o> Twipply: Layer should have a virtual destructor[01:31:50] <Twipply> See, you have all this stuff in here, and that's great and all[01:31:56] <Twipply> but what happens when I have a point particle[01:32:00] <Twipply> like, perhaps a bullet[01:32:12] <Twipply> angle, spin, centreOfMass[01:32:17] <Twipply> those are all worthless now[01:32:31] <Twipply> What if I have an entity that's immobile?[01:32:32] <Twipply> Can't be moved[01:32:43] <Twipply> am I gonna add in a bool to this for that too?[01:33:09] <Twipply> o][o noted[01:33:50] <LunarJetman> Twipply: then I would refactor it breaking rigid_body up into sub-components[01:33:53] <o][o> your thing is good, Twipply[01:34:08] <LunarJetman> my engine is far from finished[01:34:09] <o][o> you just need to polish your C++ skills a little bit. just dumb details[01:34:12] <Twipply> So you do just want systems to work on a single component?[01:34:18] <o][o> and read GoF Design Patterns[01:34:22] <o][o> this will inspire you[01:34:33] <Twipply> I haven't really used C++ that much, I'm more of a C person[01:34:37] <o][o> I see[01:34:38] <Twipply> or I was before shifting to C++ not that long ago[01:34:56] <Twipply> It ain't good though, shh[01:35:06] <Twipply> I just don't know how to design this thing[01:35:07] <LunarJetman> look at this instead: https://github.com/i42output/neoGFX/blob/master/include/neogfx/game/material.hpp[01:35:34] <LunarJetman> here material component consists of sub-components which can also be accessed indepently[01:35:55] *** perplexity <perplexity!~perplexed@unaffiliated/perplexity> has joined #gamedev[01:36:02] <Twipply> I'll take a look, thanks[01:36:12] <Twipply> I haven't heard of std::optional before[01:37:37] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[01:37:45] *** rewind <rewind!~rewind@2a01:e35:87d1:600:873:b068:7e7f:1cdb> has joined #gamedev[01:38:09] <LunarJetman> but you are right: I also need a way of iterating over multiple components simulataneously[01:39:44] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has joined #gamedev[01:42:25] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[01:51:30] <mijowh> math is hard[01:51:41] <mijowh> and my midterm is on tuesday[01:51:52] <mijowh> :/[01:51:56] <mijowh> nervous for it[01:52:06] <Twipply> Oh noes[01:52:08] <Twipply> What kinda maths?[01:52:37] <mijowh> college algebra. the stuff im not really getting yet is the complex number system[01:53:02] <mijowh> probably pretty basic stuff to alot of the other devs around here[01:53:07] <mijowh> but w/e i find it difficult[01:53:28] <Twipply> Complex number systems?[01:53:34] <Twipply> Got a little example of something you don't get?[01:54:49] <mijowh> i dont have a specific example atm, just finished my comp sci homework and about to start on math, and dreading it before even starting[01:55:02] <mijowh> but just this stuff generally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_number[01:56:06] <mijowh> when i come across one that hits me, ill share :P[01:56:26] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has quit IRC (Quit: LunarJetman)[01:58:01] <mijowh> i can pretty much BS my way through my comp sci courses cause its half just review[01:58:09] <mijowh> but maths i have to really work at[01:59:39] <Twipply> Hmkay[01:59:52] <Twipply> This template thing is beating me up[02:00:10] <Twipply> I thought I could be smart and do a recursive thing[02:00:14] <Twipply> turns out that I'm not smart[02:00:47] <mijowh> i dont really like to use recursion if avoidable. can end up piling alot on your stack[02:01:05] <Twipply> Dunno how else to do it[02:01:17] <Twipply> Not like I can just iterate over the typename thingies[02:01:22] <Twipply> (Is it?)[02:01:39] <mijowh> what do you have written?[02:07:58] <notchris> lol[02:08:01] <notchris> particle emitters[02:08:04] <notchris> just...[02:08:08] <notchris> ugh[02:37:46] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-094-222-028-157.094.222.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: refs)[02:38:22] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[02:42:58] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[02:43:46] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[03:02:39] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[03:26:21] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[03:27:39] *** rtypo <rtypo!~alex@unaffiliated/rtypo> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[03:37:55] <sebbu> mijowh, remember geometry ?[03:38:34] <sebbu> you can see the 2D space (x,y) as a complex space x+iy, whereas the 1D space (a line/axis) would be the real space[03:39:08] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[03:40:57] <sebbu> and the complex space has several advantages over the real, such as completeness and bijection for lots of operations[03:42:24] <sebbu> (be it exponentiation, logarithm, square root, trigonometric function, etc...)[03:42:40] *** [rg] <[rg]!~ricardo@67-204-254-48.eastlink.ca> has joined #gamedev[03:42:53] <sebbu> and you finally understand expression like e^(i*pi)+1=0[03:42:55] <sebbu> ;=)[03:44:06] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[04:00:10] <wedr_> I'm starting to learn how to create a perspective projection matrix in OpenGL.[04:00:29] <wedr_> This is going to take a week + full-time job for me to get through and finish[04:00:55] <wedr_> wish me luck. see you all tomorrow[04:01:01] *** wedr_ <wedr_!484a82af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.74.130.175> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[04:09:11] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[04:30:48] <notchris> i tried to make a battle-y type song[04:30:50] <notchris> https://notchris.net/audio/game/1.mp3[04:30:51] <notchris> lol[04:39:54] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[04:44:34] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[04:45:11] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[05:13:34] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has quit IRC (Quit: 0x80)[05:25:32] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[05:27:03] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)[05:27:25] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: 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Bye bye! o/)[07:07:26] *** Sadale <Sadale!~Sadale@unaffiliated/sadale> has joined #gamedev[07:18:33] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Quit: the cheetahmen ran off... and now ... the cheetahmen)[07:18:46] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[07:22:31] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p2003004CEA05B200C103DF6116309AD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[07:22:57] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[07:24:04] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p5B010479.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[07:24:32] *** notchris__ <notchris__!~notchris@73.114.19.11> has joined #gamedev[07:24:49] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:3c95:4e2c:2009:2567> has quit IRC (Quit: The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing)[07:26:28] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[07:26:28] *** notchris__ is now known as notchris[07:30:37] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[07:30:52] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@73.114.19.11> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[07:53:40] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!jprajzne@nat/redhat/x-nibreyucgcbdnoer> has joined #gamedev[08:10:06] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has joined #gamedev[08:11:04] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA065500C103DF6116309AD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[08:11:47] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p2003004CEA05B200C103DF6116309AD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[08:14:07] *** knf <knf!~Hermestri@1.39.165.139> has joined #gamedev[08:15:32] <knf> Does including blinn phong into rendering engine slow it down? By what factor? I can enable disable and test but is there any famous answer?[08:15:35] *** knf <knf!~Hermestri@1.39.165.139> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[08:15:36] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p2003004CEA066B00C103DF6116309AD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[08:15:45] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA065500C103DF6116309AD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[08:20:47] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[08:22:33] *** hahuang6| <hahuang6|!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #gamedev[08:23:43] *** knf <knf!~Hermestri@1.39.165.139> has joined #gamedev[08:24:02] *** knf <knf!~Hermestri@1.39.165.139> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[08:24:18] *** hahuang6- <hahuang6-!~hahuang65@2600:1700:38c0:6c50:84dc:bd77:23:c0f> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[08:25:26] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:4466:7600:3ab1:d4d4:9081:13c3> has joined #gamedev[08:27:44] <brainzap> Good morning humans, I hope you had a good boot up time this morning[08:29:01] <gogoprog> plop[08:39:32] *** freefork_afk <freefork_afk!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[08:39:45] *** freefork_afk <freefork_afk!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has joined #gamedev[09:04:46] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df024-144.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #gamedev[09:07:13] <DnzAtWrk> yallo[09:08:42] *** bnyio <bnyio!~bnyio@alcatraz.open-xchange.com> has joined #gamedev[09:11:36] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.198.194.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has joined #gamedev[09:36:39] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has joined #gamedev[09:42:24] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.126.109.232> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:53:45] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[09:59:09] <wPSvils> heyo everyone[10:01:58] <DarkUranium> o/[10:08:36] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[10:53:11] <R2robot> http://howtomarketagame.com/[11:02:50] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[11:05:39] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[11:21:40] *** Dave13h <Dave13h!~Dave@gibson.int13h.com> has joined #gamedev[11:34:03] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df024-144.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[11:35:03] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[11:57:22] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df024-144.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #gamedev[12:36:58] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@077213097222.dynamic.telenor.dk> has joined #gamedev[12:37:57] *** rtypo <rtypo!~alex@unaffiliated/rtypo> has joined #gamedev[12:45:02] *** aindilis <aindilis!~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[12:47:14] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[12:47:14] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[12:57:19] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[13:09:08] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[13:16:44] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has joined #gamedev[13:20:40] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has joined #gamedev[13:40:05] <wedr> To everyone using Unity, please update Visual Studio. https://unity3d.com/security#CVE-2019-9197[13:47:56] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:48:32] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[13:53:07] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[13:53:53] *** rindolf <rindolf!~shlomif@77.126.109.232> has joined #gamedev[13:54:02] <rindolf> hi all[13:55:24] <wedr> I guess the Unity patch update is rather old news (20 days)[13:55:32] <wedr> ignore[13:57:13] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[13:57:18] <brainzap> I love how you can stalk coworkers with slack[13:57:39] <Prestige> hello[13:57:44] <pulse> ahoy[13:58:20] <brainzap> hai[13:59:47] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has quit IRC (Quit: ^|SnIpeR|^)[13:59:56] <brainzap> pulse how is work?[14:00:19] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has joined #gamedev[14:00:27] <DaScoot> slack is a great system to help me avoid talking to people ever[14:00:30] <pulse> brainzap, idk[14:00:33] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[14:00:47] *** wedr <wedr!32ffae32@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.255.174.50> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[14:00:49] <pulse> trying to figure out stuff[14:00:59] <Prestige> do you prefer slack over irc?[14:01:13] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has joined #gamedev[14:01:19] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[14:01:20] <brainzap> it allows me to upload nudes[14:01:48] <Prestige> you can do that here, friend[14:01:50] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has joined #gamedev[14:01:54] <Prestige> (but don't lol)[14:02:06] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[14:02:38] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has joined #gamedev[14:02:52] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[14:03:12] <DaScoot> for something like work, you need slack's ability to see stuff from when you're not online[14:03:14] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has joined #gamedev[14:03:38] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[14:04:00] <R2robot> when a russian customer support tech asks for your google id/password so he can resolve your problem quicker... O_o[14:04:12] <DaScoot> if you never knew if someone would see your stuff you'd have to use email or face to face chats for everything anyways[14:04:44] <DaScoot> is the problem still having a secure google account?[14:04:57] <R2robot> lol, no[14:05:33] <R2robot> problem is with appodeal (http://appodeal.com)[14:05:41] *** wedr <wedr!32ffae32@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.255.174.50> has joined #gamedev[14:06:15] <R2robot> which integrates with Admob. and he wanted to id/password to browse admob.. but it uses my google id/password..sooo yeahhhh, noooo[14:08:59] <DaScoot> one of those downsides of everything being 'sign in with google/facebook' I guess[14:09:10] <R2robot> yeah[14:09:21] <R2robot> well in this case, google bought admob a while back[14:12:23] <pulse> i hate todays internet[14:12:34] <R2robot> how was it yesterday?[14:12:54] <pulse> open website ... HEY WANNA SUBSCRIBE? WE USE COOKIES BTW! PLZ NOTIFICATIONS! HERE'S A POPUP WITH A USELESS PRODUCT YOU WILL NEVER NEED[14:13:04] *** cidic <cidic!~cidic@c-73-173-42-76.hsd1.md.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[14:13:14] <pulse> just fuck my shit up[14:13:51] <R2robot> also, *detects mouse movment* WAIT, DON"T GO!!![14:13:57] <pulse> :S[14:15:01] <pulse> i forgot ... THIS WEBSITE COMPLIES WITH EU BULLSHIT LAW #137 ENTER NAO?![14:15:19] <DaScoot> saw a joke site once that show every type of popup you get these days, wish I'd saved the link[14:16:01] <DaScoot> cookies, notifications, location, ToS, email signups, autoplay video, etc etc[14:16:04] <brainzap> you forgot to work[14:16:09] <R2robot> DaScoot: that would be the most annoying website ever! lol[14:16:33] <brainzap> chrome and firefox started to push their onclick activation api and stuff, just like I tweeted years ago that it is needed[14:16:40] <DaScoot> the sad thing is how many sites come close to matching the joke site[14:17:40] <R2robot> and then there is this: https://www.ibm.com/plex/[14:17:47] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined #gamedev[14:18:32] <brainzap> if we link bad websites, let me just link this: medium.com[14:18:53] <pulse> http://endless.horse/[14:18:54] <R2robot> [24 minute read][14:19:21] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has joined #gamedev[14:20:39] *** refsw` <refsw`!~refsw@80.150.130.51> has joined #gamedev[14:21:03] <toxictype> https://i.snag.gy/vwog6a.jpg[14:21:13] <toxictype> I added more chungus.[14:21:39] <brainzap> +[14:22:19] <brainzap> that font render tho[14:23:16] *** refsw <refsw!~refsw@80.150.130.51> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[14:24:10] <R2robot> needs more chungus[14:24:17] <toxictype> Got it chief.[14:25:08] <gogoprog> pulse: where are its feet?![14:25:36] <R2robot> wait.. .horse is an actual tld?[14:26:02] <DaScoot> aw, daily project meeting is canceled, I looked forward to the excuse to waste half an hour[14:26:33] <DnzAtWrk> please tell us more for 30 minutes[14:27:15] <gogoprog> R2robot: I'm checking right now and there are so many new domain names[14:27:33] <pulse> gogoprog, at the bottom[14:28:04] <pulse> :^D[14:30:58] <DaScoot> https://www.questionablecontent.net/urls.html some options for a webcomic[14:32:12] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@67.218.88.131> has joined #gamedev[14:32:15] <gogoprog> R2robot: ihate.game for 500 EUR[14:32:28] <notchris> lol[14:32:38] <R2robot> haha[14:35:26] <toxictype> Where can I sell my game? How do I get it on steam if I don't have 100 dollars?[14:35:50] <gogoprog> If you dont have 100$ you won't sell your game[14:36:05] <gogoprog> for a free platform but with less visibility you have itch.io[14:36:20] <toxictype> I'm already on it.[14:36:30] <toxictype> I got like 100 downloads in about a month.[14:38:21] <DaScoot> gotta self-promote[14:38:22] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[14:38:28] <toxictype> I did that yes.[14:38:35] <DaScoot> even on steam I doubt buyers just roll in[14:38:36] <toxictype> Got banned from places.[14:39:07] <R2robot> http://www.howtomarketagame.com/[14:39:08] <DaScoot> yeah, uh, I'd recommend reading local rules first[14:40:14] <DaScoot> can your game be played online[14:40:16] <R2robot> getting banned from sales platforms is probably the #1 way to NOT sell your game[14:40:28] <DaScoot> in a browser I mean[14:41:06] <toxictype> Fucking no[14:41:11] <toxictype> I write C++.[14:42:12] <Cahaan> visibility on steam these days is a joke though[14:42:35] <R2robot> consider the alternatives though[14:42:38] <R2robot> jokier[14:42:45] <Cahaan> I agree[14:42:53] <toxictype> I don't now ny.[14:43:07] <Cahaan> indeed your chances to sell games on Steam are still higher, because people don't like to quit their favourite platforms in favour of others[14:43:25] <Cahaan> but I expect Steam to have some welcomed competition...[14:43:29] <Cahaan> would be good for the developers[14:43:36] <gogoprog> itch.io is only used by game devs ;)[14:43:37] <toxictype> No one can compete with chungus[14:44:53] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[14:45:40] <R2robot> the thing is, you don't have to quit one platform for another. Release on as many as you can support :D[14:46:40] <Cahaan> yeah[14:46:49] <Cahaan> except if uncle epic doesn't want to :D[14:47:09] <R2robot> :)[14:47:26] <R2robot> because exclusive deals?[14:48:57] <Cahaan> yeah[14:50:08] <notchris> ayyy[14:50:10] <notchris> o/[14:50:11] <R2robot> well, if you have to be exclusive to epic by default, that won't go over well. If they *want* you to be exclusive to their platform, then that usually comes with incentives. Higher profit sharing, heavy promotion, etc.[14:50:11] <notchris> mornin[14:52:45] <Cahaan> yes indeed[14:52:59] <Cahaan> another incentive is the share[14:53:19] <Cahaan> if platform A only takes 10% from your sales and platform B takes 30[14:53:26] <Cahaan> then you want to maximize your sales on platform A[14:53:46] <Cahaan> ideally you want to "move" sales from platform B to platform A[14:54:04] <Cahaan> so not releasing on platform B could be a valid option, if platform A is popular enough[14:54:10] <Cahaan> *could*[14:54:24] <R2robot> yeah.[14:55:04] <R2robot> Steam is so entrenched, there will be a lot of resistance to change I think. So not releasing there would be 'leaving money on the table' i think[14:55:20] <Cahaan> most probably yes[14:55:44] <R2robot> hoping epic builds something really cool though[14:55:47] <DaScoot> Patreon is changing their rate structure again :\[14:55:49] <R2robot> so far, it's very basic[14:56:18] <Cahaan> I'm also willing to see something neat coming from Epic to really compete with Steam[14:56:21] <R2robot> DaScoot: how long can they get away with pissing everybody off? lol[14:56:24] <Cahaan> in the end competition is good for everyone[14:56:28] <R2robot> yeah[14:57:12] <DaScoot> I don't know if there's any sources for it but people keep saying it's Patreon's investors forcing them to do stupid shit to make more profits more profits more profits[14:57:25] <DaScoot> being in the black just isn't good enough[14:57:38] <R2robot> see blizzard for another recent example[14:57:45] <R2robot> activision*[14:58:13] <R2robot> "we just had our most profitable year ever! but it wasn't good enough, so we're laying people off" PROFITS FOR INVESTORS[14:58:59] <DaScoot> the worst part is investors aren't actually, you know...invested[14:59:18] <DaScoot> they can ruin a company's fundamentals and walk away with their winnings just before it all burns down[14:59:23] <DaScoot> and do it again somewhere else[14:59:28] <R2robot> also, that CFO (or whatever he was) had a total compensation package of like 15 million. WAY more than it would have cost to keep those 800 employees probably.[14:59:43] <R2robot> DaScoot: yeah[15:00:03] <DaScoot> uh, no 800, no[15:00:06] <DaScoot> not*[15:01:10] <R2robot> nah, but still. that's a ridiculous amount of money for one person to then turn around and layoff 800 to increase profits[15:02:34] *** lordkryss <lordkryss!uid25759@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmfhirrqhkldxdzf> has joined #gamedev[15:03:21] *** getSomethingGood <getSomethingGood!~getSometh@ip-149-248-183-233.fibre.fibrestream.ca> has joined #gamedev[15:07:56] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has joined #gamedev[15:13:29] *** freefork_afk is now known as freestyledork[15:15:45] <DnzAtWrk> aaa, that's hot[15:22:59] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[15:28:27] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[15:28:56] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@077213097222.dynamic.telenor.dk> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[15:29:02] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[15:34:12] <die-tk> h e l l o[15:34:19] <die-tk> what is the hot topic today?[15:40:38] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df024-144.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[15:42:15] <toxictype> In the last level you can collect around 200 chungus.[15:43:05] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[15:43:51] <brainzap2> The hot topic today is, who wants to make a mobile scifi game with me[15:44:16] *** diwr <diwr!~manjaro-u@unaffiliated/diwr> has joined #gamedev[15:46:44] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[15:49:54] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df024-144.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #gamedev[15:51:22] *** getSomethingGood <getSomethingGood!~getSometh@ip-149-248-183-233.fibre.fibrestream.ca> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[15:51:31] *** getSomethingGood <getSomethingGood!~getSometh@ec2-34-226-207-107.compute-1.amazonaws.com> has joined #gamedev[15:53:45] <wedr> the actual hot topic is the upcoming Nindies at 12PM EST.[15:53:55] <wedr> 30 minutes of nonstop chitchat[15:54:24] <wedr> and many hot takes on Google Stadia failing to capture the large casual audience because of network infrastructure woes.[15:54:31] <wedr> stocks tanking[15:56:54] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[15:59:58] *** getSomethingGood <getSomethingGood!~getSometh@ec2-34-226-207-107.compute-1.amazonaws.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:01:30] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[16:01:44] *** diwr <diwr!~manjaro-u@unaffiliated/diwr> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[16:06:05] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[16:08:08] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host)[16:11:17] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[16:12:08] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[16:15:04] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:819c:9ef1:83a:ff60> has joined #gamedev[16:29:48] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[16:37:48] <toxictype> My character's name is Douche. The shit lord.[16:38:14] <mijowh> good 'noon, folks o/[16:39:44] <mijowh> toxictype: i read above, and you might be interested in compiling your c++ to webassembly using emscripten, youll be able to run your game in the browser. which is preferable to many users and might increase visibility. just a thought.[16:39:59] <toxictype> I'd rather kill myself.[16:40:03] <mijowh> k[16:40:15] <toxictype> Than make a browser game.[16:40:27] <toxictype> Fuck browser games how do you even sell that shit?[16:40:40] <notchris> i make browser ghames[16:40:40] <notchris> :/[16:40:48] <toxictype> Do you make money?[16:41:57] <notchris> No[16:42:02] <notchris> I dont think thats a thing with web games[16:42:03] <toxictype> My point.[16:42:20] <mijowh> browser games can be profitable[16:42:29] <toxictype> Press F to buy gun.[16:42:33] <toxictype> Press G to buy progress.[16:42:40] <toxictype> And you have to buy each level separately.[16:42:54] *** bnyio <bnyio!~bnyio@alcatraz.open-xchange.com> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)[16:42:58] <mijowh> maybe in one marketing scheme[16:43:21] <notchris> Well you cant make something in browser[16:43:28] <notchris> Thats comprable to a console or pc game[16:43:33] <toxictype> Exactly.[16:43:44] <notchris> Unless you can evade the browser restrictions[16:43:45] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:4466:7600:3ab1:d4d4:9081:13c3> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:43:46] <mijowh> yeah but its a top down 2d adventure game[16:43:48] <mijowh> thats fine[16:43:58] <notchris> You also cant protect your source[16:44:16] <notchris> Even if you bundle[16:44:28] <notchris> You also cant garuntee consistency cross-browsder[16:44:40] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:4466:7600:3ab1:d4d4:9081:13c3> has joined #gamedev[16:44:47] <mijowh> compile it to webassembly, you dont release your source. can people reverse engineer it? well, yeah. but that same guy could also reverse engineer your .exe because hes clearly pro[16:45:17] <toxictype> I don't think I can do that with my game.[16:45:22] <toxictype> Without rewriting it.[16:45:24] <mijowh> you can[16:47:14] <notchris> ok but[16:47:20] <notchris> you will need embedded v8[16:47:25] <notchris> for js[16:47:28] <mijowh> what for[16:47:40] <notchris> well you could completely compile but[16:47:44] <notchris> a question i had was[16:47:51] <notchris> will you have better performance with embedded v8[16:47:54] <notchris> vs playing in browser[16:47:57] <notchris> thoughts?[16:48:20] <mijowh> your app doesnt need to 'execute' js, you compile TO asm.js using emscripten toolchain[16:48:53] <mijowh> have another compile toolchain in your makefile for your .exe download if people be performance nuts on your 2d game[16:48:53] <toxictype> Does it compile C++ with SDL?[16:49:02] <mijowh> yes, the sdl libs have been ported[16:49:08] <mijowh> (i dont use them)[16:49:14] <mijowh> but i see them in source all over the place[16:49:44] <toxictype> What about pugixml[16:49:51] <mijowh> idk what that is[16:49:56] <toxictype> An xml library.[16:50:06] <toxictype> Will that compile?[16:50:51] <mijowh> youll probably need to compile it yourself using emscripten (to produce a .bc file, which is kinda like a libfoo.a file archive) and link that in t your app (so basic c/c++ compilation stuffs)[16:50:58] <mijowh> unless its header lib, then doesnt matter[16:51:44] <mijowh> for ex i have to compile openddl and lua in my case using emscripten toolchain[16:51:55] <mijowh> worked fine, no issues[16:52:09] <mijowh> jsut an extra makefile rule[16:54:16] <mijowh> there are a few quirks, like while(true) { mainLoop(); } becomes emscripten_set_main_loop(0,mainLoop); but its manageable, and running c++ in the browser is pretty neat imo[16:54:51] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has joined #gamedev[16:55:04] <warweasle> Hi[16:55:09] <mijowh> also, it seems to be pretty consistent between firefox and chromium[16:55:30] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@077213097222.dynamic.telenor.dk> has joined #gamedev[16:55:33] <mijowh> i dont use other browsers vOv[16:55:43] <mijowh> hi warweasle[17:05:44] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@67.218.88.131> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[17:06:39] *** diwr <diwr!~manjaro-u@unaffiliated/diwr> has joined #gamedev[17:16:22] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:8977:ff4:2682:3620> has joined #gamedev[17:16:55] *** RandomCouch <RandomCouch!~RandomSof@207.219.200.115> has joined #gamedev[17:18:52] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has joined #gamedev[17:22:42] <die-tk> in game purchasing is definitely not exclusive for browser games[17:23:11] <die-tk> mobile games are full of it, PS4 games also have a lot of it, etc.[17:23:48] *** die-tk is now known as Deliverance[17:24:01] *** Deliverance is now known as _Deliverance_[17:25:33] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[17:25:33] <_Deliverance_> WEEEE![17:25:35] <_Deliverance_> WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE![17:26:52] *** Dwarden <Dwarden!Dwarden@static-84-42-238-19.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[17:27:10] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:f956:9d11:2d11:55e9> has joined #gamedev[17:27:52] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[17:30:04] <Cahaan> so difficult to find good mobile games[17:30:24] <Cahaan> in the ocean of IAP soul-crushing shit[17:30:42] <Cahaan> usually when the game is "free", it's not a good sign[17:30:55] <Cahaan> with some exceptions of course[17:31:23] <wedr> Cadence of Hyrule feat. Legend of Zelda[17:31:26] <wedr> nice indie game[17:31:39] <wedr> Coming this Spring on the Nintendo Switch[17:32:03] <Cahaan> cool[17:32:20] <wedr> Nintendo is now collaborating with other indie teams with their IPs[17:32:35] <wedr> More to come on the way[17:32:59] <Cahaan> I mostly play games on my ipad pro these days[17:33:04] <warweasle> mijowh: Wow. WOrk wanted me to work.[17:33:36] <Cahaan> some good games like: Baldur's Gate EE, XCOM, Grid, FTL, ...[17:34:04] <Cahaan> Spiderweb Games are there too (Jeff Vogel)[17:34:41] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:f956:9d11:2d11:55e9> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:36:02] *** Orion] <Orion]!~H0i@unaffiliated/orion/x-3970838> has joined #gamedev[17:36:56] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:d40f:232b:fabc:c0f8> has joined #gamedev[17:40:16] <R2robot> Have any of you setup a developer page on the google play store?[17:40:40] <toxictype> nO. ShoUld I?[17:40:54] <R2robot> 100%[17:41:14] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[17:43:58] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:d40f:232b:fabc:c0f8> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:44:37] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:e110:f47c:702e:f51> has joined #gamedev[17:46:24] <wedr> So Microsoft is partnering with StudioMDHR to investigate bringing Xbox Live features beyond Xbox and PC to Nintendo Switch. https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/03/20/gdc-evolving-idxbox-program-for-developers/[17:46:31] <wedr> hmmmmm[17:49:24] <DarkUranium> It's a crazy world we live in.[17:51:52] *** Bob- <Bob-!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:30a8:692d:2a87:7645> has joined #gamedev[17:52:19] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:e110:f47c:702e:f51> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[17:57:13] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164> has joined #gamedev[17:57:18] *** Bob- <Bob-!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:30a8:692d:2a87:7645> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[18:02:38] *** gamester <gamester!~gamester@89-160-183-39.du.xdsl.is> has joined #gamedev[18:03:25] *** gamester <gamester!~gamester@89-160-183-39.du.xdsl.is> has left #gamedev[18:25:13] <_Deliverance_> hey, I have some questions about nomenclature used in software development :}[18:25:40] <R2robot> shoot[18:25:54] <_Deliverance_> for example, we call FEATURE CREEP when our classes or libraries get unintentionally too big and complex due to changes and new added features over time[18:26:37] <_Deliverance_> now we have something else creeping here, but it is when we make a design/implementation decision that ends up leaking to the user in the form of a misfeature or some idiosyncrasy is exposed in the user interface[18:26:42] <_Deliverance_> how can I call these things?[18:27:12] <_Deliverance_> I can sketch an actual (redacted) example if you want to know more[18:27:15] <R2robot> what is a misfeature?[18:27:31] <_Deliverance_> so we have a database and a big stack for data processing[18:27:42] <R2robot> just call it a turd sandwich[18:27:53] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[18:28:00] <_Deliverance_> this data processing requires a specific field to be there in the flow or else the workflow fails at some point[18:28:17] <_Deliverance_> this is a field that comes from the user (example: a SQL statement)[18:28:36] <_Deliverance_> our decision was to fail fast the workflow if that field is not present[18:28:50] <_Deliverance_> the toll the user takes is to always specify such field in their SQLs[18:28:58] <R2robot> #AppDev[18:29:05] <notchris> o/[18:29:06] <notchris> back[18:29:09] <R2robot> o/[18:29:17] <_Deliverance_> so we leaked an internal issue to the user. basically[18:29:20] <_Deliverance_> dunno how to call it[18:29:28] <notchris> a bug[18:29:34] <R2robot> ^[18:29:42] <_Deliverance_> it is not a bug. it is a limitation[18:29:51] <R2robot> is this game related?[18:29:51] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined #gamedev[18:29:52] <_Deliverance_> we reduced the support of something[18:29:58] <_Deliverance_> it can be. i can't tell :D[18:30:03] <R2robot> nah[18:30:27] <R2robot> not a whole lot of user input fields in gaming..[18:30:31] <R2robot> except login. :P[18:30:36] <wedr> password[18:30:38] <_Deliverance_> you don't know who is the user[18:30:56] <R2robot> this is #gamedev[18:30:57] <wedr> of course you don't. :/[18:31:23] <R2robot> perhaps the fine folks of ##programming can settle that issue. :D[18:31:39] <wedr> what issue?[18:31:47] <wedr> (I'm those ##programming folks)[18:31:55] <R2robot> non gamedev issue[18:32:06] <R2robot> so don't answer it here. lol[18:32:07] <wedr> very well.[18:32:32] <notchris> i can help[18:32:53] <wedr> we all do, but we gotta play by the rules[18:33:11] <R2robot> Google Stadia. People are like.. mehhh[18:33:40] <wedr> It's already happening. The CEO even said he's not a gamer.[18:33:48] <wedr> That phrase alone tanked Google some shares[18:33:52] <R2robot> lol[18:34:05] <R2robot> i.just.dont.get.it[18:34:30] <R2robot> and like the other similar offerings kinda tanked, right?[18:34:55] * wedr wants to see these offerings tank even harder[18:35:15] <R2robot> so will google launch it with a beta, tinker with it a few years and then sunset it like everything else that isn't gmail?[18:36:24] <wedr> Well, until the next CEO comes along, and the new CEO kills it off.[18:37:59] *** veridiam <veridiam!veridiamma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-frgppvvmzusmwutf> has joined #gamedev[18:37:59] <veridiam> hey at least all the games will have a linux port now[18:38:21] <R2robot> yeaaaahh, noooooo[18:38:26] <R2robot> #NotLikeTHisssss[18:41:28] *** thomas_2_ <thomas_2_!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[18:45:09] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:98bc:d85c:87a3:38cb> has joined #gamedev[18:49:26] *** thomas_2_ <thomas_2_!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[18:50:19] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has joined #gamedev[18:51:07] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[18:57:49] <solidfox> just got 4d toys on steam[18:58:40] <warweasle> what's that?[18:59:24] <wedr> a game where you play around your brain[18:59:37] <wedr> see objects appear and reappear with a 5 matrix[18:59:41] <wedr> 5D*[19:00:06] <wedr> or something. There's this math where you manipulate the modelview matrices[19:00:13] <rindolf> solidfox: hi, sup?[19:00:13] <wedr> on a higher dimension[19:00:49] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df024-144.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:09:07] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[19:10:50] *** aindilis <aindilis!~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net> has joined #gamedev[19:13:34] *** rtypo <rtypo!~alex@unaffiliated/rtypo> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)[19:14:02] *** rtypo <rtypo!~alex@unaffiliated/rtypo> has joined #gamedev[19:15:53] <warweasle> So how has the android steam link app?[19:17:27] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[19:17:33] <DarkUranium> I intend to try it Soon(TM)[19:17:33] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[19:18:00] <warweasle> I just found out about it.[19:18:11] <warweasle> I can't wait to play hitman on my phone.[19:18:30] <warweasle> Pushing people off of ledges is fun.[19:19:11] <DarkUranium> lol[19:19:18] <DarkUranium> I intend to try it w/ our TV[19:19:33] <DarkUranium> assuming Android Steam Link supports controllers.[19:19:39] <wedr> You should try it with your phone[19:21:38] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[19:24:08] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[19:24:52] <brainzap> I am here to give you, motivation[19:25:19] <brainzap> warweasle: GET DOWN AND FINISH YOUR FUCKING BASEBALL HIT ANIMATION[19:25:39] <toxictype> So if I have a "spawn" object that spawns 20 enemies how do I give each of them a unique that is consistent? So far I give them the id of -rand() but that does not work. It should work because before spawning I seed rand() with the ID of the spawn.[19:25:57] <LunarJetman> toxictype: use cookies.[19:26:15] <warweasle> brainzap: I got a lot done last night ... and early this morning.[19:26:30] <brainzap> GOOD JOB[19:26:52] <warweasle> I even fixed a bug where blending animations made my character tip over. I have another 15 or so more to do, but most of them are much shorter than a walk cycle.[19:28:33] *** Cahaan <Cahaan!~Cahaan@ns326233.ip-37-187-158.eu> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:29:22] <toxictype> LunarJetman what[19:29:41] <warweasle> I have another issue with my feet being stuck to the floor, but I think that's because I exported my IK foot bones.[19:29:59] <LunarJetman> toxictype: you've never header of chocolate chip cookies?[19:30:00] <warweasle> IK post processing overwrites the animation.[19:30:17] <LunarJetman> heard*[19:31:35] <toxictype> Not funny.[19:31:42] *** Brend_ <Brend_!sid34888@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wzrzhtmlwsztiewg> has joined #gamedev[19:31:54] *** javagoogles <javagoogles!sid18547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tnmecvrxdscwcxct> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[19:32:16] *** Brend <Brend!sid34888@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-knriulksxrfgfzbt> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[19:32:18] *** Brend_ is now known as Brend[19:32:22] <solidfox> rindolf, i was playing 4d toys on steam.[19:32:37] <brainzap> rindolf: still alive??[19:32:38] <solidfox> it asked for admin privelages to install some script. but i said no and it worked anyways[19:32:38] <LunarJetman> toxictype: I need to establish if you know what a cookie is. have you heard of chocolate chip cookies?[19:32:38] <solidfox> weird[19:32:52] <rindolf> brainzap: i think so[19:33:06] <toxictype> What the fuck are you talking about[19:33:25] <rindolf> solidfox: ah[19:33:28] *** javagoogles <javagoogles!sid18547@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nwpedxajljgycdot> has joined #gamedev[19:33:40] <solidfox> (then again if it were something malicious it is already exe on your system. but admin priveleges? thats superfluous)[19:33:43] <LunarJetman> do you want fucking help or not?[19:34:22] <solidfox> LunarJetman, i dont like those soft chocolate chip cookies you buy at walmart[19:34:25] <solidfox> they taste funny[19:34:35] <solidfox> i like the original kind[19:34:37] <solidfox> or homemade[19:35:00] <solidfox> original kind do make me tired though. probabaly working the fuck outta my liver[19:35:04] <LunarJetman> very good solidfox but I am trying to establish if toxictype knows what a cookie is.[19:35:21] <solidfox> ah ok[19:36:23] *** cidic <cidic!~cidic@c-73-173-42-76.hsd1.md.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: cidic)[19:37:37] <LunarJetman> toxictype obviously doesn't want his problem solved.[19:38:20] <brainzap> I want cookies[19:38:32] <solidfox> toxictype, LunarJetman has helped me out a few times before[19:38:36] <solidfox> toxictype, just have faith[19:38:45] <rindolf> brainzap: sup?[19:38:57] <solidfox> brainzap, i want cookies too[19:39:00] <brainzap> rindolf: lots of work and stuff, you got a job?[19:39:37] <rindolf> brainzap: no, not yet[19:41:50] <toxictype> I don't like trick questions.[19:41:56] <LunarJetman> it isn't a trick question[19:42:05] <LunarJetman> do you know what a chocolate chip cookie is or not?[19:42:12] <toxictype> No. Why?[19:42:33] <LunarJetman> your lack of such knowledge is a serious impediment to progress on this issue.[19:43:06] <LunarJetman> you need to live life more to discover what a chocolate chip cookie is; come back when you have done that.[19:43:25] <toxictype> I hope that you're talking about food instead of being punny.[19:43:40] <toxictype> I fucking hate programmer humor.[19:43:44] <LunarJetman> yes I am talking about food what the fuck did you think I was talking about?[19:43:48] <_Deliverance_> :D[19:43:49] <_Deliverance_> owned[19:43:53] <toxictype> Math faggot.[19:44:01] <_Deliverance_> wow! name calling[19:44:05] <brainzap> guys, calm the fuck down. We are here for making games[19:44:06] <toxictype> He started it.[19:44:09] <LunarJetman> so I will ask again; do you know what a chocolate chip cookie is?[19:44:14] <toxictype> I already told you.[19:44:16] <_Deliverance_> what did he call you, toxictype ?[19:44:26] <_Deliverance_> seriously, no need for dumb name calling[19:44:34] <LunarJetman> and I told you we cannot proceed if you don't know what it is.[19:45:00] <solidfox> i don't know how you can do much of anything if you don't know what a chocolate chip cookies is[19:45:21] <_Deliverance_> even under the heaviest trolling, name calling is still a demonstration of weakness and defeat :([19:45:25] <solidfox> toxictype, where are you from?[19:45:41] <LunarJetman> I have the answer to all his problems and he refuses to comply.[19:46:12] <solidfox> LunarJetman, some countries dont eat cookies[19:46:21] <solidfox> like in communist china, they only eat rice all day long[19:46:28] <LunarJetman> solidfox, that is disturbing.[19:46:39] <solidfox> jk about china[19:46:47] <_Deliverance_> toxictype, answering your ID question before --> I just use a sequential ID. would it fit your design?[19:46:49] <solidfox> but yeah serious that somecountries dont[19:47:07] <toxictype> I do that by seeding rand()[19:47:11] *** Prestige <Prestige!~Prestige@pool-71-121-203-35.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Disconnected by services)[19:47:14] <LunarJetman> _Deliverance_: just using a sequential ID has issues.[19:47:18] *** diwr <diwr!~manjaro-u@unaffiliated/diwr> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[19:47:27] <_Deliverance_> toxictype, just replace it with a sequential ID[19:47:34] <_Deliverance_> LunarJetman, tell us why or shut up[19:47:36] <toxictype> It's the same thing.[19:47:49] <_Deliverance_> toxictype, ofc not. you won't have any collisions with a sequential ID[19:47:53] <LunarJetman> _Deliverance_: I cannot answer until the issue of chocolate chip cookie knowledge is resolved.[19:47:59] <_Deliverance_> fuck off[19:47:59] <toxictype> I don't have that many objects.[19:48:12] <toxictype> Told you he started it.[19:48:45] <_Deliverance_> toxictype, I don't understand[19:48:46] <LunarJetman> toxictype: why don't you know what a chocolate chip cookie is?[19:48:52] <_Deliverance_> the number of objects is irrelevant[19:48:59] <_Deliverance_> rand() will cause clashes[19:49:04] <_Deliverance_> regardless[19:49:12] <LunarJetman> rand() shouldn't be used for anything whatsoever.[19:49:13] <_Deliverance_> toxictype, make it simple. use a sequential ID[19:49:15] <toxictype> It's less likely if there's a small number of objects.[19:49:27] <toxictype> I write less code this way.[19:49:36] <_Deliverance_> less code that is wrong will still be wrong[19:49:39] <LunarJetman> "less likely" = bug waiting to happen; you are doing it wrong (TM)[19:50:31] <_Deliverance_> toxictype, sometimes it is not clear whether you have actual questions or if you just want to troll / keep discussions going ad eternum[19:50:37] <toxictype> I don't care, I'm focused on something else right now.[19:50:50] <_Deliverance_> people will stop caring about you either[19:50:53] <toxictype> Namely why my enemies respawn.[19:50:54] <LunarJetman> my unique entity ID solution I use in my ECS; it's great.[19:51:06] <_Deliverance_> you need to stop this childish attitude[19:51:37] <toxictype> If my enemies respawn now they will respawn with sequential IDs your point is moot.[19:51:54] <_Deliverance_> LunarJetman has already occupied the post of channel mascot here[19:51:58] <_Deliverance_> we don't need another one[19:52:13] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:98bc:d85c:87a3:38cb> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:52:32] <toxictype> What did I just say?[19:52:46] <LunarJetman> toxictype: it is quite valid for rand() to return the value 42 for ten consecutive calls[19:53:05] <LunarJetman> or 77 for two consecutive calls[19:53:11] <toxictype> Done.[19:53:15] <toxictype> Now it's less likely.[19:53:18] <LunarJetman> that doesn't help[19:53:25] <LunarJetman> and it isn't less likely mathematically[19:53:32] <toxictype> Is too.[19:53:36] <LunarJetman> no, it isn't[19:53:36] *** _Deliverance_ is now known as Cuiiiiiii[19:53:38] <toxictype> What like -40 and -2?[19:53:40] <LunarJetman> you do not know what you are doing[19:54:16] <LunarJetman> and if rand() returns zero three consecutive times?[19:54:32] <toxictype> Right.[19:54:39] <LunarJetman> it isn't less likely; you don't understand the maths[19:54:54] <toxictype> It's twice as random.[19:55:08] <LunarJetman> a) it isn't random and b) it ins't twice as random[19:55:42] <LunarJetman> and c) rand() is the WORST PRNG imaginable[19:56:11] <Cuiiiiiii> twice as random :D[19:56:22] <toxictype> I'm fully aware.[19:56:37] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out)[19:56:43] <LunarJetman> all toxictype has to do is discover what chocolate chip cookie is and I will solve his problem.[19:57:15] <toxictype> Somehow I feel like it would have taken you less time to explain what it is rather on trolling.[19:57:24] <LunarJetman> I am not trolling.[19:57:40] <LunarJetman> we need to understand you can understand related abstractions[19:57:42] <toxictype> I don't think generating is the issue.[19:57:54] <toxictype> Unless that's not that.[19:59:29] <LunarJetman> what we are talking about is all about ID value generation: my solution can provide the same unique value more than once[19:59:57] <Cuiiiiiii> this channel is really becoming a second instance of ##programming :( to the point to see users arguing that sequential IDs are bad in favor of rand() and other dumb unexplained things[20:00:12] <Cuiiiiiii> Twipply, please don't pay attention to this conversation :D[20:00:45] *** cidic <cidic!~cidic@c-73-173-42-76.hsd1.md.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[20:01:03] <Twipply> o_O[20:01:09] <toxictype> My enemies respawn even though they have the same generated kill IDs between loads.[20:01:42] <toxictype> I figured it out.[20:01:44] <LunarJetman> tonight I shall be enjoying mince and onions[20:01:45] <toxictype> Respawn was set to true.[20:01:52] *** qrestlove <qrestlove!~qrestlove@2601:446:c201:f560:4166:2e20:21a6:3912> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[20:02:25] <LunarJetman> your rand() solution isn't even wrong.[20:03:09] <warweasle> At least I rewrote some of my gamedev processes.[20:03:38] <toxictype> That's what I was trying to say[20:04:09] <solidfox> just use static[20:04:10] <toxictype> Never mind they still respawn.[20:04:14] <solidfox> static next_id = 1;[20:04:19] <solidfox> int id = next_id++;[20:05:32] <LunarJetman> solidfox: that is but half the story depending on how you use the IDs.[20:06:58] <solidfox> toxictype, i wouldnt call it trolling. LunarJetman is rather eccentric[20:07:26] <solidfox> toxictype, he once sent me a video of a person saying ravioli 3 times for no reason.[20:07:56] <wedr> Ah, that ravioli video? A poster once got reddit gold for it.[20:08:00] <LunarJetman> I have multiple videos of a person saying ravioli 3 times for no reason[20:08:27] <wedr> ignore me[20:08:38] <LunarJetman> four videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7jyS93YRVSSjrJjmiw1xjA[20:08:59] <solidfox> toxictype, in other words he's dead serious.[20:09:56] <LunarJetman> you won't make progress with me if you don't play the game.[20:10:29] <warweasle> LunarJetman: You just lost The Game![20:10:43] <warweasle> LOL, I'm so RaNdOm![20:11:18] <solidfox> warweasle, lol[20:11:26] <solidfox> i love the game. shit just lost[20:11:41] *** cidic <cidic!~cidic@c-73-173-42-76.hsd1.md.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: cidic)[20:16:54] <Cuiiiiiii> solidfox, if you really think that both LunarJetman and toxictype are dead serious, then we definitely became a 2nd instance of ##programming[20:16:59] <Cuiiiiiii> RIP[20:17:00] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:1a:c171:3ee7:9c4a:6828:3ea8> has joined #gamedev[20:17:03] <Cuiiiiiii> +__+[20:17:55] <solidfox> Cuiiiiiii, maybe i do[20:17:57] <solidfox> maybe i dont[20:18:18] <Cuiiiiiii> hehehehe[20:18:43] <LunarJetman> I am being dead serious. I can only provide toxictype with a solution to his problem if he discovers what chocolate chip cookies are.[20:19:18] <solidfox> go to store, buy some chips ahoy original chocolate chip cookies[20:19:20] <solidfox> they're cheap[20:19:25] <Cuiiiiiii> such obsession for chocolate. you must have diabetes :([20:19:26] <solidfox> dont eat too many or you'll fall asleep[20:19:56] <Cuiiiiiii> LunarJetman, can you bake chocolate cookies at least?[20:20:01] <Cuiiiiiii> I can. mine are amazing[20:22:00] <LunarJetman> no[20:23:14] <Cuiiiiiii> so you are at least one step behind me to understand chocolate cookies ;-)[20:25:07] <brainzap> can I get the recipe[20:25:36] <Cuiiiiiii> sure[20:25:54] <Cuiiiiiii> PM is ok?[20:26:13] <Cuiiiiiii> Chocolate Chip Mint Cookies[20:26:14] <Cuiiiiiii> :)[20:26:43] <Cuiiiiiii> these are my favorite[20:26:54] <toxictype> Fuck this shit my enemies still respawn.[20:26:57] <toxictype> I fixed everything.[20:27:02] <brainzap> metric system?[20:27:14] <Cuiiiiiii> no :([20:27:18] <Cuiiiiiii> cups and teaspoons[20:27:38] <brainzap> pff NA cooking[20:28:14] <Cuiiiiiii> NA?[20:28:28] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has quit IRC (Quit: later)[20:30:10] <Twipply> North America[20:30:41] <Cuiiiiiii> yeah! it is where I currently live[20:30:46] <Cuiiiiiii> need to adapt to the environment[20:31:03] <Cuiiiiiii> although I am still missing some acronym definitions... :-/[20:35:31] <solidfox> toxictype, just make sure you win against LunarJetman. never concede[20:35:51] <solidfox> its more important to win at irc than to fix your game.[20:36:02] *** moldybits <moldybits!~mb@unaffiliated/moldybits> has joined #gamedev[20:36:25] <toxictype> I can't figure out why they respawn[20:36:53] <mijowh> interesting bug. call it a feature and walk away[20:36:57] <toxictype> They get the sme ID each tmie it loads. that ID is put in a list when killed, list contains that ID, however no comparison gets triggered[20:37:37] <toxictype> I think he was talking about Discord.[20:39:02] <Cuiiiiiii> yeah! make it a feature, like "enhanced difficulty level"[20:39:11] <Cuiiiiiii> it won't be the first time[20:39:18] <toxictype> What if you lod the game in the middle of a spawn?[20:39:25] <Cuiiiiiii> that's how combos started in fighting games, you know[20:39:28] <Cuiiiiiii> bugs turned into features[20:42:05] <mijowh> did not know that[20:42:15] <mijowh> neat[20:43:15] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[20:49:44] <toxictype> LunarJetman were you talking about Discord?[20:49:57] <toxictype> Also I fixed it by not using rand(). I swear it should have worked.[20:50:09] <toxictype> Instead I used a counter that goes negative.[20:51:39] <pulse> i am angry, angry at elves[20:51:40] *** Cahaan <Cahaan!~Cahaan@ns326233.ip-37-187-158.eu> has joined #gamedev[20:51:44] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[20:54:36] <mijowh> use magma[20:54:39] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[20:55:53] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[20:56:46] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[20:57:14] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined #gamedev[20:59:18] <LunarJetman> toxictype: no I was talking about cookies.[20:59:29] <toxictype> ok retard[20:59:58] <LunarJetman> ratard? you are the one who doesn't know what a cookie is.[21:00:07] <Cuiiiiiii> lol[21:00:17] <toxictype> You said ratard.[21:00:21] <mijowh> mm cookies[21:00:30] <Cuiiiiiii> so sequential negative IDs worked :D[21:00:46] <mijowh> why not[21:00:58] <Cuiiiiiii> he did negative IDs only to not agree with my initial suggestions :D[21:01:02] <Cuiiiiiii> he needs to be DIFFERENT[21:01:24] <toxictype> Negtive IDs because I already have IDs given by the map.[21:01:48] <Cuiiiiiii> and you needed different IDs to indicate respawning[21:01:51] <LunarJetman> the problem with a solution which just consists of a sequential ID is that the ID can get quite large over time which can be problematic it you use it as an index, for example.[21:01:56] <toxictype> Uh no[21:02:02] <Cuiiiiiii> LunarJetman, that was retarded[21:02:05] <toxictype> The whole point of IDs was to prevent respawning.[21:02:44] <LunarJetman> in my solutions the IDs do not get large and can always be used as a unique index[21:02:52] <LunarJetman> solution*[21:02:54] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[21:02:57] <Cuiiiiiii> wut[21:03:07] <toxictype> I bet it's a float.[21:03:16] <LunarJetman> Cuiiiiiii: I cannot elaborate until toxictype discovers what a cookie is.[21:03:19] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[21:03:24] <Cuiiiiiii> you wouldn't elaborate anyway[21:03:26] <toxictype> I'm going to not google iton purpsoe.[21:03:34] <toxictype> Actually I did google it you know what it returned?[21:03:37] <LunarJetman> yes I would elaborate[21:03:42] <toxictype> Noting to do with what were talking about.[21:03:43] <Cuiiiiiii> you never elaborate on anything[21:03:49] <toxictype> He does not know the way.[21:03:53] <LunarJetman> I elaborate if the game is played[21:03:57] <mijowh> you actually should toxictype, but only for your sake. cookies are delicious treats. tots worth the google time[21:04:03] <mijowh> mm[21:04:03] <toxictype> My point is I'm not going to play your game.[21:04:14] <LunarJetman> then you will not get my solution to your problem[21:04:14] <Cuiiiiiii> play mine and i play yours <3[21:04:19] <toxictype> I already solved it.[21:04:26] <LunarJetman> no, you didn't[21:04:29] <Cuiiiiiii> fap fap fap[21:04:31] <toxictype> Says you.[21:04:34] <LunarJetman> your use of rand() is erroneous[21:04:39] <LunarJetman> you are doing it wrong (TM)[21:04:39] <toxictype> I discarded rand()[21:04:43] <toxictype> Didn't you read what I said?[21:05:18] <LunarJetman> what I read was that you don't know what a cookie is which is a sorry state of affairs.[21:05:28] <toxictype> Nobody cares.[21:05:45] <mijowh> a baker might[21:06:36] <toxictype> This isn't #blender[21:06:56] <LunarJetman> understanding my solution actually requires knowledge of cookies.[21:07:12] <toxictype> I bet it's a hack.[21:07:19] <LunarJetman> nope.[21:07:33] <toxictype> Then I don't care.[21:07:41] <LunarJetman> the IDs are referred to as cookies.[21:07:41] <toxictype> I made my game of hacks only.[21:07:47] <toxictype> Well no shit.[21:07:53] <toxictype> Do they come with a tag?[21:08:03] <LunarJetman> nope[21:08:23] <mijowh> if your solution to a programming problem requires an analogy to a pastry to make sense, doesnt bode well for your solution[21:08:23] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[21:08:44] <LunarJetman> mijowh: I cannot elaborate until toxictype discovers what cookies are.[21:09:00] <mijowh> "ive solved the travelling salesman problem: do you know what snickerdoodles are?"[21:09:04] <toxictype> Nobody google it.[21:09:47] <LunarJetman> suffice to say I will be having mince and onions tonight not cookies.[21:10:28] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[21:11:10] <toxictype> Stay healthy.[21:11:27] <mijowh> im probably going to do pork chops[21:11:36] <LunarJetman> you are missing out not knowing what cookies are toxictype.[21:11:45] <toxictype> I prefer weed.[21:12:01] <mijowh> you actually are, but probably not because of his 'solution'. cookies are just amazing treats[21:12:49] <mijowh> cookies and weed go hand in hand[21:12:55] <mijowh> just sayin[21:13:10] <LunarJetman> also lack of cookie culture is means not knowing where on nom nom comes from.[21:13:20] <LunarJetman> om[21:13:30] <mijowh> heh, cookie monster[21:13:44] <toxictype> This is so pure.[21:13:55] <mijowh> pure?[21:14:07] <LunarJetman> but cookie monster is not directly related to my solution unlike cookies themselves.[21:14:48] <LunarJetman> although I could renamed a class interface name to "nom".[21:15:21] *** hahuang65_ <hahuang65_!~hahuang65@46.244.28.23> has joined #gamedev[21:15:29] <mijowh> it sounds like youve massively overcomplicating generating sets of unique, reusable ids[21:16:02] <LunarJetman> mijowh: no; my requirement is an ID that can also be used as an index to a vector for speed[21:16:36] <Cuiiiiiii> I have some pork jelly to eat here[21:16:41] <Cuiiiiiii> dunno if I gonna do it[21:16:46] <mijowh> pork ~jelly~?[21:16:48] <Cuiiiiiii> yeah[21:16:50] <mijowh> jelly?[21:17:05] <mijowh> sounds european[21:17:11] <Cuiiiiiii> it is chinese[21:17:22] <Cuiiiiiii> a chinese coworker handed me over some home made pork jelly[21:17:23] <mijowh> its probably delicious then[21:17:38] <Cuiiiiiii> it tastes ok. but it is a little gross[21:17:43] <toxictype> Have you jailbreaked your linux yet?[21:17:44] <mijowh> but made out of something weird. probably not pork[21:17:45] <Cuiiiiiii> still debating whether I should eat it or not[21:17:50] <Cuiiiiiii> pork skin[21:17:51] <mijowh> but nobody cares, it tastes good[21:17:51] <LunarJetman> an ID which just increments means it cannot be used as an index to a vector as vector would always have to grow; so my solution provides reusable IDs among other features.[21:18:09] <Cuiiiiiii> LunarJetman, nobody cares about your delusions with your dumb vectors :)[21:18:35] <Cuiiiiiii> everyone uses sequential IDs. except you because you have arbitrary illusory restrictions :)[21:18:48] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[21:18:54] <LunarJetman> my solution also uses sequential IDs execpt that can be reused[21:18:55] <mijowh> sequential ids are fine, or generate from rand - it reall doesnt matter[21:18:57] *** thomas_2_ <thomas_2_!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[21:18:59] <mijowh> what matters is that theyre unique[21:19:05] <Cuiiiiiii> mijowh, rand() will collide[21:19:07] <mijowh> sequential is prob faster tjo[21:19:10] <LunarJetman> mijowh: no.[21:19:12] *** aeth <aeth!~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[21:19:12] <Cuiiiiiii> sequential is dumb and simple[21:19:37] <LunarJetman> we have already been over why rand() is a bad idea[21:19:40] <LunarJetman> scroll up[21:19:41] <Cuiiiiiii> you can use the infallible method designed by toxictype : rand() + rand() or rand() - rand() :D[21:19:42] <mijowh> it can gen duplicate values yeah, but you can check for that case and try again. it is a bad idea[21:19:42] *** Prestige <Prestige!~Prestige@pool-71-121-203-35.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net> has joined #gamedev[21:19:49] <mijowh> but he metioned he was doing that[21:19:57] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-178-012-113-051.178.012.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[21:20:08] <mijowh> and honestly, to the user of the function ~it should not matter HOW or WHERE the number comes from[21:20:12] <mijowh> ONLY that its unique[21:20:32] <LunarJetman> if you want a genuinely unique ID then use a UUID[21:20:38] <Cuiiiiiii> :D[21:20:54] <Cuiiiiiii> you really need to get laid[21:21:05] *** aeth <aeth!~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn> has joined #gamedev[21:21:21] <LunarJetman> but using a UUID you need as 128-bit PRNG (preferably cryptographically secure)[21:22:37] <LunarJetman> and you need a way of generating the 128-bit seed[21:23:23] <LunarJetman> so unique IDs isn't as simple as "a number that increments"; depends what you are using them for[21:23:30] <mijowh> personally, i use sequential generation[21:23:38] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #gamedev[21:23:48] <pulse> are you people solving problems or what is going on[21:24:00] <mijowh> i was just tring to get the point that number source is irrelevant to the point of the function - generate unique number given a set of other numbers[21:24:23] <pulse> i am the best RNG[21:24:27] <LunarJetman> if the number source is bad then it is relevent that it is bad[21:25:08] <mijowh> thats a concern for the scope of the person writing said function, not the user of function, to whom its just a black box[21:25:14] *** code_zombie <code_zombie!~code_zomb@2605:a601:aa1:da00:b918:c6a0:8532:5a63> has joined #gamedev[21:25:20] <mijowh> generates random number thats unique among set[21:25:23] <mijowh> user doesnt care how[21:25:28] <mijowh> but the implementer obviously does[21:25:41] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)[21:26:30] <mijowh> sp/generates number thats unique among set[21:26:42] *** hahuang65_ <hahuang65_!~hahuang65@46.244.28.23> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[21:26:53] *** thomas_2_ <thomas_2_!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[21:27:10] <LunarJetman> I use both reusable sequential ID and UUIDs in my ECS.[21:27:28] <pulse> i use OOOOOOOOP[21:27:41] <LunarJetman> I use both OOP and ECS[21:28:10] <mijowh> i use a reusable sequential 64-bit unsigned int as id in my ECS[21:28:20] *** qrestlove <qrestlove!~qrestlove@2601:446:c201:f560:dde3:63b1:f903:6239> has joined #gamedev[21:28:34] <LunarJetman> mijowh: naive.[21:28:53] <mijowh> k[21:29:11] <mijowh> you just said you use a reusable sequential id as well, so[21:29:28] <pulse> why do you need an id for an entity[21:29:38] <mijowh> an entity is just an id[21:29:47] <mijowh> thats all an entity is[21:29:57] <pulse> weird[21:30:32] <LunarJetman> it isn't weird it is how pure ECS works[21:30:39] <LunarJetman> pure ECS is only ECS that matters[21:30:41] <mijowh> thats the common definition in most writings on ECS[21:30:47] <mijowh> https://www.gamedev.net/articles/programming/general-and-gameplay-programming/understanding-component-entity-systems-r3013[21:30:50] <mijowh> one example[21:31:31] <pulse> that's totally not how i would implement it[21:31:49] <pulse> my entities would be objects[21:31:51] <pulse> because i'm that cool[21:32:34] <LunarJetman> because you are clueless and you have low FPS.[21:33:27] <LunarJetman> OOP = lots of CPU cache misses[21:33:45] <pulse> lol[21:34:15] <pulse> that's the weirdest argument against OOP ever[21:34:25] <LunarJetman> ECS = DOD = far fewer CPU cache misses = FASTER[21:34:37] <pulse> real life benchmark or it didn't happen[21:34:40] <mijowh> thats oversimplifying the concept a bit[21:34:56] <chrisf> back under your bridge pulse[21:35:02] <pulse> :][21:35:02] <mijowh> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data-oriented_design[21:35:45] <LunarJetman> pure ECS uses data-oriented design[21:35:50] *** Oddity <Oddity!~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity> has quit IRC ()[21:36:28] <LunarJetman> object-oriented design is relegated to level of n00b[21:36:55] <mijowh> both DOD and ECS are often vague buzzwords in usage. but there is more to it[21:37:01] <mijowh> all design paradigms have their place[21:37:36] <chrisf> is often a matter of granularity[21:37:38] <pulse> yeah, my 2D pixel art platformer running at 640x480 on a 3.6GHz processor will totally benefit from using pure ECS[21:37:40] <LunarJetman> mijowh: I believe I said but five minutes ago that I also still use OOP[21:38:03] <mijowh> okay[21:38:51] <LunarJetman> but using OOP things for which you should be using pure ECS for in the domain of gamedev is n00b.[21:39:17] <mijowh> were saying similar things ultimately[21:39:23] <LunarJetman> class particle { /* I am fucking clueless */ ... };[21:39:23] <mijowh> i think[21:39:50] <Donitzo> glee![21:39:59] <Donitzo> the first part of shipgen looks good[21:40:01] <LunarJetman> class particle : public entity { /* I am fucking clueless */ ... };[21:40:17] <Donitzo> particles aren't entities unless you're making something really strange[21:40:25] <mijowh> they would be components[21:40:31] <Donitzo> particles would be data[21:40:38] <mijowh> or rather, youd probably have a component for particle system[21:40:52] <mijowh> and yes particles would be just data[21:40:54] <LunarJetman> Donitzo: isn't the comment obvious that it is abad idea?[21:40:56] <pulse> LunarJetman, OOP code looks nicer and is way more unambiguous[21:40:59] <mijowh> or rather, particle emitter*[21:40:59] <Donitzo> reason obviously being that entities/game objects are heavy[21:41:01] <Donitzo> huge overhead[21:41:04] <Donitzo> particles are small, you want tons[21:42:25] <Donitzo> your comment doesn't make sense though[21:42:31] <Donitzo> particles aren't in any way linked to ECS[21:42:40] <LunarJetman> pulse: OOP code still has its advantages but that doesn't mean you use it for everything.[21:42:56] <pulse> obviously[21:43:03] <Donitzo> using OOP you could just as well have a particle system[21:44:26] <LunarJetman> Donitzo: bullshit; particles can be entities if your ECS is performant enough[21:44:36] <Donitzo> of course they can[21:45:15] <LunarJetman> a physics system can act on particles just like any other entity type[21:45:17] <LunarJetman> for example[21:45:52] <Donitzo> yes, but generally when you talk particles you talk the visual effect[21:46:41] <LunarJetman> you might want to treat them differently because of how shaders are used but you could design an ECS that works well with shaders in that aspect[21:47:23] <Donitzo> I've used particle entities at some point[21:47:37] <Donitzo> don't remember why anymore[21:48:05] <Donitzo> probably because they were tracking something[21:48:10] <R2robot> the weird and very specific questions asked to get your game a rating: https://snag.gy/J94u6r.jpg[21:48:44] <LunarJetman> well one example is to use particles as sample points in a graph and you want to be able to click on particle for more information about the sample[21:49:01] <mijowh> R2robot: hit yes for all of them, fbi shows up[21:49:03] <Donitzo> of course just about anything you can do with entities can also be done with a particle system[21:49:08] <Donitzo> it's just less self-contained[21:49:19] <Donitzo> more[21:49:20] <R2robot> mijowh: haha, probably.[21:49:38] <LunarJetman> I simply disagree with your blanket assertion that "particles aren't entities"[21:50:04] <Donitzo> well, particles by the very definiton are kinda... atomic and small I believe[21:50:25] <LunarJetman> entities can be "atomic and small"[21:50:47] <Donitzo> then you should name them particles[21:51:02] <Donitzo> *shrug*[21:51:05] <LunarJetman> but entities can also be "non-atomic and large"[21:51:05] <pulse> so in pure ECS, how do you track of entity's position[21:51:07] <pulse> or whatever other property[21:51:10] <pulse> i don't get it[21:51:18] <Donitzo> what tracks the position?[21:51:29] <mijowh> the position data is stored in a component[21:51:34] <Donitzo> oh[21:51:36] <pulse> that's so bizarre[21:51:39] <Donitzo> sqlite database[21:51:39] <Donitzo> done[21:51:40] <mijowh> thats associated with the entity (entity is just id)[21:51:45] <LunarJetman> and the entity ID can be used to index the component[21:51:52] <pulse> so to move entity from x=0 to x=100 you have to remove/add component 100 times???[21:51:56] <LunarJetman> no[21:51:57] <Donitzo> noo[21:52:00] <pulse> oh[21:52:01] <pulse> ok[21:52:08] <mijowh> then you have a system that operates on sets of components, i.e, processing position data and applies gravity, updating the component which is jsut a block of data[21:52:25] <mijowh> entity = number for id[21:52:29] <mijowh> component = block of data[21:52:30] <Donitzo> that would be a physics system[21:52:33] <mijowh> system = processes data[21:52:49] <mijowh> entities and components are associated with each other[21:53:08] <Donitzo> entities should basically just be an id and...[21:53:11] <mijowh> so say, you could have a position component, a collider component, a sprite component associated with a single entity (id)[21:53:11] <Donitzo> umm[21:53:15] <pulse> ok say i want to animate my entity which is a 2d sprite[21:53:24] <pulse> what happens there[21:53:25] <mijowh> so that represents an object you can see that moves around[21:53:40] <pulse> i'm pressing right on the keyboard and i know i have to cycle through animations 1 through 4 for the walk cycle[21:53:44] <Donitzo> technically, each component you make should have its own system for logic[21:53:46] <pulse> that's system-side?[21:54:07] <Donitzo> so you make a physics system component, and a physics system system[21:54:11] <Donitzo> which handles all the[21:54:12] <LunarJetman> pulse: I wrote this short article on the subject: https://isocpp.org/blog/2018/08/data-oriented-design-and-avoiding-the-cpp-object-oriented-programming-zimme[21:54:14] <mijowh> theres be some sort of sprite-animator system, or maybe lump that into an overall "sprite system"[21:54:38] <pulse> LunarJetman, k will read[21:54:38] <mijowh> Donitzo: yeah, but sometimes systems can deal with different components. like for physics, a rigidbody component combines with a boxcollider[21:54:45] <Cuiiiiiii> too bad they are publishing every sort of shit now in the isocpp site :([21:54:46] <Donitzo> yeah[21:54:55] *** fperson <fperson!~fperson@178.72.185.116> has joined #gamedev[21:55:02] <LunarJetman> Cuiiiiiii: u jelly bro?[21:55:06] <Donitzo> but should every system have an associated component? or can systems exist without one[21:55:20] *** fperson <fperson!~fperson@178.72.185.116> has left #gamedev[21:55:22] <mijowh> in my implementation systems can easily exist without any associated components[21:55:41] <Donitzo> seems less pure[21:55:45] <Donitzo> eh[21:55:45] <pulse> i don't like pure ECS[21:55:47] <mijowh> probably yeah[21:55:49] <pulse> i like my frankenstein ecs[21:55:52] <mijowh> ^[21:56:21] <pulse> in JS i just clump a bunch of objects together[21:56:24] <pulse> and call that ECS, vaguely[21:56:28] <pulse> in C++ i've never implemented it[21:56:30] <pulse> should be fun tho[21:57:26] <mijowh> every implementation ive seen differs, soemtimes in fundamental ways[21:57:57] <Donitzo> ever considered making an ECS which allows reversal of time?[21:58:04] <mijowh> thatd be neat[21:58:06] <Donitzo> seems like it should be easy with ECS[21:58:20] <LunarJetman> it is[21:58:33] <mijowh> yeah, storing the state of program is a matter of just storing your components which are already just blocks of data[21:58:53] <mijowh> if you record events, you could just replay them or play in reverse. thatd be neat[21:58:53] <Donitzo> with an efficient storage model you should be able to quickly store... maybe even compress the states[21:58:56] <mijowh> i havent done that though[21:59:26] <mijowh> yeah i use a bitpacking scheme myself for storage[21:59:34] <Donitzo> like, imagine the state of the entire game being stored in a single hashmap[21:59:38] <Donitzo> of varying type[21:59:51] <Donitzo> eh, idunno[22:01:37] <Cuiiiiiii> gah[22:01:56] <Cuiiiiiii> imagine this being debugged. jesus christ[22:02:42] <Donitzo> like this piece of ****[22:02:44] <Donitzo> WHAT is wrong[22:02:46] <pulse> imagine actually developing a game instead of focusing of implementation trivialities exactly 0 of your players care about[22:03:04] <pulse> <:)[22:03:10] <mijowh> users care about none of the implementation details[22:03:14] <chrisf> you have zero players if it doesnt fit in the machine[22:03:18] <mijowh> but they still need to be thought about[22:04:04] <pulse> some of the most fun games in history have codebases that would give most sane people nightmares and PTSD[22:04:09] <pulse> iiiii'm just sayin'[22:04:30] <Donitzo> I kinda agree, which is why I just try to do OOP these days, until I you know, start some kind of massive project[22:04:49] <mijowh> ill make a game someday >.>[22:05:04] <mijowh> stop rushing me[22:05:25] <pulse> i worked on an enterprise codebase once[22:05:29] <pulse> you would think those people would have sane codebases[22:05:30] <pulse> ha[22:05:40] <pulse> ugliest crap i ever witnessed[22:06:03] <mijowh> design by committee that hires consultants who halfass one feature and leave[22:06:13] <mijowh> yeah thatd make for a beautiful code[22:06:24] <pulse> did you ever had to debug a 30k loc function[22:06:30] <mijowh> no[22:06:30] <pulse> well i had[22:06:33] <pulse> >_<[22:06:37] <mijowh> my entire program is only about 22k lines[22:06:55] <chrisf> pulse: yes.[22:07:03] <pulse> you know my pains then[22:07:26] <mijowh> the dev was getting paid per-line :P[22:07:37] <pulse> no it was one of those[22:07:47] <pulse> "let's add features for 10 years without caring abotu code structure"[22:07:47] <pulse> things[22:08:25] <pulse> it basically parsed every conceivable thing from a business XML[22:08:28] <pulse> horror[22:08:30] <pulse> i hate XML since then[22:08:40] <Donitzo> screw xml[22:08:42] <Donitzo> go json[22:08:44] <mijowh> i never really used xml[22:08:51] <mijowh> or json for that matter[22:08:56] <Donitzo> json is fine[22:08:58] <mijowh> i like ddl[22:09:01] <pulse> json is much more sane[22:09:10] <pulse> but it's still abused[22:09:14] <pulse> so until you've parsed a 500MB json[22:09:19] <pulse> you don't know[22:09:20] <Donitzo> I have[22:09:21] <pulse> :S[22:09:24] <pulse> :S :S[22:09:25] <mijowh> i use openddl because i wrote a parser for opengex format for asset import[22:09:39] <mijowh> but use a binary format after conversion and for actual storage of assets[22:09:55] <Donitzo> (json with gzipped+base64 encoded data)[22:09:58] <Donitzo> *cough* *cough*[22:10:15] <pulse> i always advocate binary + translation layer for humans[22:10:20] <pulse> but no one seems to care[22:10:29] <chrisf> in enterprise land it's usually not the xml itself that's the killer, it's things like WS-*[22:10:42] <mijowh> yeah i can convert to/from openddl/opengex for assets only, which is human readable[22:10:51] <Donitzo> god damn xml namespaces[22:10:54] <mijowh> but in all other places i just use binary formats[22:10:59] <mijowh> except config file[22:11:17] <Donitzo> I avoid non-self-explanatory data[22:11:18] <mijowh> which is basically treated like a .ini[22:11:35] <Donitzo> if I need binary storage I tend to use .hdf or something[22:11:45] <Donitzo> .h5*[22:12:18] <pulse> the only thing worse than a 500MB json is a 500MB csv[22:12:32] <pulse> i'd rather have 500mb xml at that point[22:12:35] <pulse> :D[22:12:44] <pulse> stupid data, getting in the way of pure algorithms[22:12:46] <pulse> bad, that's a bad data[22:13:02] <Donitzo> you really should prefer the .csv[22:13:07] <Donitzo> .csv parsers are MUCH lighter[22:13:23] <pulse> idk i have bad experience with csv[22:13:26] <Donitzo> and you can usually read them in chunks[22:13:35] <Donitzo> or line by line[22:13:37] <Donitzo> try that with xml[22:13:59] <pulse> yeah xml parsing is a horror show[22:24:54] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:32:24] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:8977:ff4:2682:3620> has quit IRC (Quit: The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing)[22:37:36] *** RandomCouch <RandomCouch!~RandomSof@207.219.200.115> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:38:26] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.198.194.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))[22:52:05] <Twipply> mijowh you're officially my go-to guy from now on btw[22:52:12] <Twipply> All my stupid questions go straight to you[22:52:13] <Twipply> hope you're prepared[22:52:42] <Twipply> So in my ECS I have bullets and I have asteroids[22:52:48] <Twipply> I want to do bullet <---> asteroid collision[22:52:53] <Twipply> so that the bullets can blow up the asteroids[22:53:03] <Twipply> The maths is fine, I'm just wondering about the setup[22:53:08] <Twipply> concerning components and such[22:54:00] <Twipply> Just throw a component on the bullets, another on the asteroids, and check collisions between the two?[22:59:15] <Cuiiiiiii> hehehehehehe[22:59:21] <Cuiiiiiii> collision among different types[22:59:24] <Cuiiiiiii> I love this problem[22:59:29] <mijowh> i would set it up like { entity bullet : hascomponents<rigidbody, spherecollider, transform(position and orientation), renderer(for tracers or something cool)>; entity asteroid : hascomponents<rigidbody, meshcollider, transform, renderer>; } according to what components i have and how my ecs is framed. (hascomponents is just pseudo-talk to show relationship, i have no such actual syntax) OR i might give a weapon itself a component that[22:59:29] <mijowh> has data storage for a pool of bullets, which might have some specific handling as bullets are plentiful, and fast. might be a bit much to do entity and set of components for each[22:59:47] <Cuiiiiiii> Twipply, Scott Meyers addresses this problem very well in his More Effective C++ book[22:59:57] <Cuiiiiiii> he describes how to implement multiple dispatching in practice[23:02:11] *** toxictype <toxictype!~Akira@balticom-189-98.balticom.lv> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[23:02:20] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:1a:c171:3ee7:9c4a:6828:3ea8> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[23:04:41] <Twipply> Is that book duder using an ECS by chance?[23:06:56] <Cuiiiiiii> no. he covers best practices with C++[23:07:00] <Cuiiiiiii> you should read all of his books[23:07:06] <Cuiiiiiii> quick reading, excellent content[23:08:02] *** moldybits <moldybits!~mb@unaffiliated/moldybits> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)[23:09:25] <Twipply> I never learned how to read[23:09:27] <Twipply> my parents were abusive[23:09:33] <Twipply> I use IRC through text-to-speech[23:16:49] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has joined #gamedev[23:16:50] <mijowh> one goal for bullets since there may be many, but for a single weapon the bullets are basically identical, is batching of draw calls by using instanced drawing and such. each weapon can draw all its own bullets in space in one draw call fairly simply[23:17:26] <Twipply> Using SDL[23:17:31] <Twipply> Unless it has instance rendering and I don't know about it[23:18:00] <Twipply> Also if I wanted to use OpenGL stuff on top of SDL I'd have just used SDL straight up[23:18:05] <mijowh> using opengl? or some sdl api methods[23:18:06] <Twipply> uhhh[23:18:09] <Twipply> OpenGL* straight up[23:18:18] <mijowh> i see[23:18:29] <mijowh> well then its really up to you, thats just what id do[23:18:36] <LunarJetman> Twipply; ignore Cuiiiiiii on this matter; he is ECS n00b.[23:18:59] <Twipply> Yes, instance rendering stuff would be good, I agree[23:19:03] <Twipply> thanks for the tip bbe[23:30:14] <Cuiiiiiii> LunarJetman, stop pinging me. I will never bang your dirty ass[23:33:28] <pulse> don't forget to bring a towel[23:34:13] <Cuiiiiiii> and huge amounts of money[23:35:10] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has joined #gamedev[23:35:21] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[23:39:55] <LunarJetman> Cuiiiiiii: the only person who knows less about ECS than you is Scott Meyers you fucking fanboy[23:42:13] <pulse> fight, fight, fight[23:42:20] <pulse> round 1[23:42:26] <pulse> *vaguely chinese music plays*[23:43:05] <LunarJetman> I have wired my joystick to do combos with a single press so I win[23:44:06] <Cuiiiiiii> oh ho ho ho you don't like Scott Meyers?[23:44:17] <Cuiiiiiii> he wrote some of the best C++ books[23:44:49] <mijowh> i dont know him[23:44:57] <mijowh> but i may add his books to my toread list[23:45:28] <Cuiiiiiii> Effective C++, More Effective C++, Effective STL and Effective Modern C++[23:45:38] <pulse> i like "Learn C++ in 28 days"[23:45:41] <pulse> by generic author #8[23:47:17] <pulse> Call of Cthulhu is a good introductory book to C++ too[23:48:28] <R2robot> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1RTgznup5c[23:50:45] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[23:57:26] <LunarJetman> yes he is indeed a one trick pony his one trick being writing C++ books[23:58:12] <DarkUranium> pulse, lol[23:59:39] <Twipply> Baby's First ECS is the only book I need