March 16, 2019 
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March 16, 2019 [00:08:14] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[00:18:33] *** atom32k <atom32k!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[00:22:37] *** perplexity <perplexity!~perplexed@unaffiliated/perplexity> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[00:24:23] *** atom32k <atom32k!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has joined #gamedev[00:31:39] *** rindolf <rindolf!~shlomif@77.126.109.232> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[00:39:26] <notchris> ugh math is hard lol[00:40:06] <pulse> how hard[00:40:18] <notchris> haha probably not that hard but still[00:40:23] <notchris> stuck on this motion problem[00:41:05] <pulse> the motion of the ocean[00:43:22] <notchris> hahaha[00:47:04] *** atom32k <atom32k!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[00:51:15] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)[00:52:28] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #gamedev[00:57:09] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[00:58:45] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #gamedev[00:59:04] <chrisf> notchris: what are you trying to solve?[00:59:39] <notchris> Im trying to understand the logic behind something in a physics engine[00:59:59] <mijowh> behind what?[01:00:37] <notchris> There are static bodies that dont respond to gravity or collision, which is cool but[01:01:02] <notchris> I need to update their position over time, but doing it using the normal update position method doesnt work when its static[01:01:28] <notchris> So I saw an example on the libraries github issues, and I see its done b[01:01:33] <chrisf> notchris: there is often a distinction between kinematic and static[01:01:40] <notchris> By updating both the posiition / velocity and then it works[01:01:52] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[01:02:30] <chrisf> updating both position and velocity is a sound plan[01:03:06] <chrisf> even if the physics engine doesnt evolve the state of these objects, is important to tell it what you're doing[01:04:35] <notchris> hmmm[01:07:59] *** LucaTM <LucaTM!~LucaTM@unaffiliated/lucatm> has joined #gamedev[01:11:14] *** LucaTM <LucaTM!~LucaTM@unaffiliated/lucatm> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[01:11:44] <chrisf> "a wild box appeared"[01:17:56] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[01:21:43] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[01:33:30] *** eddof13 <eddof13!~eddof13@201-156-176-12.reservada.static.axtel.net> has quit IRC (Quit: eddof13)[01:56:21] *** freefork_afk is now known as freestyledork[02:02:39] *** code_zombie <code_zombie!~code_zomb@2605:a601:aa1:da00:9069:bc94:3160:5b5f> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[02:28:09] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has joined #gamedev[02:29:48] <o][o> R2robot: https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/undoing-changes jesus christ[02:30:28] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[02:30:47] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has joined #gamedev[02:30:54] <NiniGeo2> I feel like Intel hates me sometimes xD They don't support an arithmetic SIMD left-shift for some reason, but they do support a right-shift?? http://parma.chant.ru/docs/icc/mergedProjects/intref_cls/common/intref_sse2_int_shift.htm[02:32:38] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:33:12] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[02:41:37] *** c4ntelope is now known as cantelope[02:43:02] <chrisf> NiniGeo2: logical and arithmetic *left* shifts are the same.[02:43:35] <NiniGeo2> They are? Wouldn't a left-shift shift off the sign bit?[02:43:38] <chrisf> NiniGeo2: you always shift in zeros[02:44:07] <NiniGeo2> Yeah sure zeroes come in at the bottom bits, but I'm concerned about the sign bit, which is the topmost bit :o[02:44:39] <chrisf> NiniGeo2: think a bit more about how 2s-complement works.[02:45:05] <chrisf> NiniGeo2: the next bits down are also 1s[02:46:04] <chrisf> if the top bit is a 1[02:46:35] <NiniGeo2> Oooooooh you know what you're right. I had forgotten about the 2's compliment for negative numbers :o[02:48:38] <chrisf> NiniGeo2: SSE absolutely sucks, but not in this way :)[02:48:42] <NiniGeo2> :][02:54:31] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[02:55:06] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[02:56:04] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p5B0102F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[02:56:15] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA171A009C6E6CAC87A0D1F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[02:56:23] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[02:56:53] *** freefork_afk is now known as freestyledork[02:58:41] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[03:24:57] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA171A009C6E6CAC87A0D1F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[03:25:42] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA17C3009C6E6CAC87A0D1F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[03:32:09] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p2003004CEA17ED009C6E6CAC87A0D1F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[03:32:31] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA17C3009C6E6CAC87A0D1F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[03:43:02] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA182C009C6E6CAC87A0D1F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[03:43:06] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p2003004CEA17ED009C6E6CAC87A0D1F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[03:43:55] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[04:02:41] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-178-005-226-169.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: refs)[04:05:06] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA182C009C6E6CAC87A0D1F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[04:06:02] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA18AC0024123CFC76BB405E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[04:06:52] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[04:10:17] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA18AC0024123CFC76BB405E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[04:11:14] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA18C000C5172453708558D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[04:15:47] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA18C000C5172453708558D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[04:16:17] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA18CB00C5172453708558D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[04:20:33] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA18CB00C5172453708558D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[04:21:09] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA18E000C5172453708558D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[04:24:39] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p2003004CEA18F900C5172453708558D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[04:25:27] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA18E000C5172453708558D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[04:30:57] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[04:31:21] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[05:07:11] *** urn <urn!6b4dad06@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.77.173.6> has joined #gamedev[05:07:17] <urn> hi[05:07:36] <urn> im looking at making a basic 2d rpg from scratch[05:08:07] <urn> like, maybe sdl, or similar. Id like to stick with plain C where possible[05:08:24] <urn> maybe python (I know they are very different)[05:08:42] <urn> am I shooting myself in the foot?[05:09:01] <urn> Im trying to recreate, like, ff5 or ff6 for the gameboy advance[05:09:18] <urn> a super nintendo style 'jrpg'[05:23:18] <LastTalon> urn, are you planning on making your own engine or using an existing one?[05:26:44] <urn> probably make my own, Im not sure what engine, might do this kind of game[05:27:26] <urn> does it need an engine? sdl isnt really an 'engine' but covers most of what I need I guess[05:28:17] <LastTalon> Well typically things go one of two ways, you either use an engine, or you end up making a rudimentary engine.[05:28:47] <LastTalon> Most 2D engines I would assume are capable of doing what you need.[05:29:04] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[05:29:53] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[05:30:04] <urn> Id not even know where to start, for an engine to use, that would be suitable. Id expect for a 3d game, it would be more useful, but a 2d rpg?[05:30:18] <LastTalon> Not shooting yourself in the foot, but definitely figure out what tools you're using and learn to use them before you actually get started.[05:30:21] <urn> for desktop, with a gamepad, I think sdl is fine yeah?[05:30:44] <urn> like, think final fantasy for gameboy[05:30:50] <LastTalon> Why would an engine not be useful for a 2D game?[05:31:25] <urn> 2d graphics, grid map, menu combat, turn based, music, sound effect, some animations and effects[05:31:40] <urn> not useless, just overkill and bloat inducing[05:31:51] <urn> what 'engine' would you suggest?[05:32:14] <LastTalon> Hmm... I'm going to have to disagree, but I suspect that's going to be due to what might be your concept of what an engine is.[05:32:21] <urn> Im genuinely asking[05:32:28] <urn> is SDL an engine?[05:32:44] <LastTalon> Hmm, no probably not.[05:32:45] <urn> or are you thinking unity/unreal/gamemaker[05:32:52] <aeth> No, SDL is a portability library over windows, input, and OpenGL (etc) context creation.[05:32:54] <LastTalon> But that is going to depend on what your definition of an engine is.[05:33:12] <urn> aeth, right, I dont think I needmore than that[05:33:18] <aeth> How good of a programmer are you?[05:33:26] <urn> but if Im wrong, point me in the right direction[05:33:49] <urn> LastTalon: could you give yours or offer an example?[05:33:51] <aeth> For "2D RPG" you can go all the way from "the engine does literally everything" to "I am making my own engine" with lots of engines/frameworks that involve more programming like Godot in between.[05:34:09] <LastTalon> urn, well you brought up things like unity, unreal, and gamemaker. Yeah, definitely engines.[05:34:14] <aeth> And since it's in 2D, you can write things the "wrong" way as far as performance goes and use basically any language you want (within reason)[05:34:18] <LastTalon> They provide the tools you need to put your game together.[05:34:34] <urn> in short, all the stuff Ive looked at either a) is just too big! or b) is designed for other types of games, or c) why bother at all?[05:34:39] <LastTalon> But at the end of the day you're going to make that tooling one way or another.[05:34:58] <urn> godot is cool, but I dont have oGL3, so it doesnt run[05:35:08] <LastTalon> If you choose not to call that tooling and engine that's your prerogative.[05:35:35] <aeth> urn: you can use a big engine like Godot (forget the others, Godot is a 2D-first FOSS engine) or a framework (e.g. Love2D with Lua) or just glue together a bunch of libraries yourself.[05:35:53] <aeth> urn: not having OpenGL 3 is... well... that's going to be very problematic if you want to use any engine, framework, or even rendering library[05:36:06] <urn> sdl is ok yeah?[05:36:22] <aeth> SDL's 2D API is essentially legacy at this point.[05:36:33] <urn> like allegro[05:37:03] <aeth> Everything portable is done either targeting multiple graphics APIs (too much work for you, but there might be a low level abstraction library that does this) or OpenGL or Vulkan.[05:37:06] <urn> so, I think 'an engine', is something Ill make myself[05:37:34] <LastTalon> Like I said, the important thing is going to be making sure you have the tooling you're going to need to make your game and that you understand it.[05:37:47] <aeth> You do 2D on 3D graphics APIs because (1) that's how modern hardware works and (2) you can do some really cool effects with shaders even for 2D games[05:37:49] <urn> and really, 'getting it done' is important, I can port it later easy enough, to unity/lumberjack/gamemaker (I own gms:2)[05:37:57] <LastTalon> Otherwise you'll just feature creep that stage forever.[05:38:09] <urn> yeah totally, unless you are coding for an lcd and a sbc[05:38:16] <urn> (single board computer)[05:38:31] <aeth> If by porting you mean rewriting basically everything that has to do with coding/scripting and possibly changing the map format and really only keeping the sprite assets, then, yes, you can port to any engine later on.[05:38:35] <aeth> They tend to be extremely opinionated, though[05:38:48] <urn> tiled is good I think for now, or the other one like it, tile studio I think[05:39:17] <LastTalon> Or finding/writing new tooling to import your existing maps.[05:39:24] <urn> aeth, yeah pretty much that on porting, but once the code is written, sytax aint so bad[05:39:56] <urn> so, have yo utwo played final fantasy 5?[05:40:00] <urn> (or 6)[05:40:08] <LastTalon> I've never been big into jrpgs[05:41:02] <urn> Im going to have a state machine for game mode, and a map mode, a menu mode, a combat mode and maybe something else. Im going to have input catchers to move the cursor or character[05:41:46] <urn> its all turn based, and fairly simple. sdl really makes this a matter of 'building the structure' in a few thousand LoC, and then everything else is scripting[05:41:51] <urn> but![05:42:11] <urn> I dont recall sdl have much in the way of basic 2d animation routines[05:42:19] <LastTalon> I just think you're sort of underestimating the complexity of "building the structure"[05:43:07] <urn> 2d animation, tile engine, input, sound sync, states, database[05:43:33] <aeth> what's your plan for collision detection?[05:43:36] <urn> the 2d animation part, walking, looping, etc, battle actions, etc[05:43:42] <urn> AABB?[05:43:51] <urn> its grid basedm so... modulo?[05:44:26] <urn> its turn based, not much there collision wise, AABB is sufficient and just checking the map data should be fine[05:44:59] <urn> isWalkable(player.position.tilemovingto)[05:45:28] <LastTalon> Even some of those can turn into larger tasks and I think that's a pretty conservative list of what you're going to need.[05:45:55] <urn> if it was a fighting game, like teklken/streetfighter/etc, AABB with hit boxes, or more complex and Id use unity or something[05:46:04] <urn> LastTalon: yeah[05:46:16] <urn> so, can you recommend an engine then?[05:46:22] <LastTalon> I'm not trying to discourage you. I'm just saying not to take the tasks lightly.[05:46:43] <LastTalon> If it were easy so many people wouldn't have so much trouble and take so much time doing it.[05:46:57] <urn> Im not so much, I just dont think an engine exists, thats suitable[05:47:08] <LastTalon> Engines exist that are suitable.[05:47:10] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has joined #gamedev[05:47:15] <urn> such as?[05:47:23] <LastTalon> Such as ones you yourself have mentioned.[05:47:30] <LastTalon> Unity, unreal, gamemaker[05:47:36] <LastTalon> Those would all be suitable.[05:47:39] <urn> none of those are suitable[05:47:59] <urn> unity is a mess for 2d, much less grid based games and will take several GB just to install[05:48:01] <urn> n[05:48:02] <LastTalon> I must be missing something then.[05:48:16] <aeth> LastTalon: absolutely not, I'd recommend Godot instead but urn's computer is incapable of running it apparently[05:48:24] <urn> gamemaker wont even run on my lsaptop anymore, yoyogames has bloated it to appease their corporate masters[05:48:45] <urn> Im looking at the 2.x branch of godot actually[05:48:58] <urn> I get Ogl 2.just shy of godot 3[05:49:13] <urn> also, monogame and c# maybe[05:49:23] <aeth> LastTalon: Unity's 2D support is weak, Unreal's is worse, and GameMaker is probably more suitable for non-programmers[05:49:43] <LastTalon> But they would do the job.[05:49:52] <urn> I have GMS:2, and... its a mess, unless it 'clicks' with your workflow[05:49:57] <LastTalon> I think I just have a different take on what was meant by suitable.[05:50:02] <aeth> urn: OpenGL 3 is more than 10 years old at this point, do you have very old hardware or very bad drivers?[05:50:03] <LastTalon> I mean they'd be good enough.[05:50:08] <urn> not capable, suitable[05:50:25] <urn> good enough, but too big, too complex and geared for much different projects[05:50:48] <LastTalon> I'm not sure those qualifiers apply exactly, but w/e.[05:51:03] <urn> you _can_ make unity do a 2d rpg, but its faster to just do it from scratch and you dont end up with a 256 MB file for a 7MB game[05:51:16] <LastTalon> Most "big" engines are made to be flexible to an extent.[05:51:21] <urn> right[05:51:29] <LastTalon> That doesn't mean they aren't fit for purpose.[05:51:35] <urn> and thats where Im not digging them for this project[05:51:45] <LastTalon> But it does mean they aren't going to make your game work out of the box.[05:51:59] <LastTalon> Regardless of the game.[05:52:01] <urn> their fexibility has a price, and Im not want to pay it right now[05:52:12] <LastTalon> So I don't think that's necessarily a good attitude to have about tools.[05:52:42] <LastTalon> Making a custom engine or even choosing an engine more tailored to your specific use at the moment also has a cost.[05:52:44] <urn> for a larger project, for something that needed a little more than I can manage on my own, Id use probably unreal or try lumberjack, or just use gamemaker[05:52:57] <aeth> LastTalon: It's a 2D RPG, there are dozens/hundreds of game frameworks and game engines that can do that, I can understand not wanting to use one of the more heavyweight 3D-first engines for that.[05:53:05] <urn> maybe unity, but they really turned me off not too long ago[05:53:29] <LastTalon> Well most modern 2D games use 3D anyway.[05:53:32] <aeth> On the other hand, a custom engine, of course, is going to be a lot more work than anticipated.[05:53:39] <urn> aeth so could you recommend a 2d engine/framework thats better suited[05:54:14] <LastTalon> What I'm trying to say though, is learning a more heavyweight engine like unity could be done faster than creating your own custom lightweight 2D engine.[05:54:24] <urn> LastTalon: yeah under the hood, sure, Im fine with that, its when you are basically running a 2d game on sa texture space in a 3d world, you add complexity thats not needed[05:54:45] <urn> LastTalon: Ive used unity in the past. I own GameMaker.[05:54:53] <aeth> Basically *all* 2D is aimed at at least one of these very popular genres to make: (1) platformers (2) shoot 'em ups (3) SNES-style RPGs (4) roguelikes[05:54:56] <aeth> Your options are basically endless[05:54:56] <LastTalon> So the cost would be even less then, wouldn't it?[05:55:10] <urn> no, not for this[05:55:48] <urn> its counter-intuitive, but getting back to basics and keeping it simple...[05:56:13] <LastTalon> But you're also starting from basics and building all your own tooling for it.[05:56:22] <urn> analogy. I dont need my air compressor and framing nailer, or all of my power tools, to hang a picture or whittle[05:56:47] <LastTalon> Its not a good analogy because you already have a hammer, nails, and a wall.[05:57:00] <LastTalon> You're talking about having to forge the hammer and nails yourself, too.[05:57:01] <urn> overkill.[05:57:31] <urn> well, no, thats what SDL or allegro is for[05:57:38] <urn> so I dont have to write to vram[05:57:45] <urn> in asm[05:57:55] <LastTalon> It takes care of some of the things, but other tools you'll still need to make yourself.[05:58:18] <LastTalon> Which is what I've been advocating for the whole time. Sit down, make a list of what you need, and figure out what you'll need to make yourself or find tools to do.[05:58:42] <aeth> urn: Building your own game engine will probably add at least 3 years to your project, just be aware of that.[05:58:43] <urn> I did.[05:58:45] <LastTalon> You're going to want animations, so figure out how you're going to get animations into your game.[05:59:01] <urn> well, it took me under a week to do it in the past[05:59:11] <LastTalon> What tools are you going to use to make animations and what tools are you going to use to assemble them and script them in your game?[05:59:30] <urn> basically you have a strip, and a cell size, and you bump the offset between that rangeof the loop, say 0-3 for walking up[05:59:51] <urn> this in either sdl or allegro, its been a few years'[06:00:46] <aeth> I hang around a lot of game engine devs online and am one myself. Expect to take years before you can even get to the game.[06:00:53] <aeth> If that's what you want, go for it.[06:00:54] <LastTalon> The question is basically the top question that gets asked which doesn't have a good answer. Because the answer is going to be experience and knowledge of your tools.[06:01:03] <urn> and you update your sprite on the section of the strip, each state, walkin up, down, left, right, jump, fall, attack, etc, gets a start and end range on the strip. you can use a grid if you watm but the sip is easier[06:01:30] <urn> aeth, I wrote a zelda demo in a matter of weeks for class[06:01:46] <LastTalon> I can't make you understand that I'm only giving my advice for what you're going to need to know to make that call.[06:01:56] <LastTalon> aeth here is in the same boat.[06:02:06] <urn> Ive written a handful of basic game 'demos' in a few days, in everything from gamemaker, to unity to flash[06:02:38] <aeth> urn: (1) That was probably your primary focus during those weeks and (2) it's easy to do something intensively for weeks it's hard to do it intensively for years so your interest kind of fades in and out in bursts and (3) there are a ton of edge cases that class assignments don't cover but that a commercial project needs to address.[06:03:48] <urn> over the last 20 years, Id say, for all the advances game 'engines' and 'frameworks' Ive used, for this particular project, I can either write more hakf finished bloatware in unity, or I can learn say, godot, or gmemaker, again, or I can build a generic, simple 'engine' and just make the game[06:04:22] <aeth> Also, Gamemaker/Unity do most of the work for you, and Flash is fairly high level (especially compared to plain C) afaik.[06:04:28] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[06:04:49] <urn> jet3d, reality factory, genesis3d, gamemaker 4.3, 5.1, 6.2, studio, 1 and 2, unity, flash, a dozen others Ive forgotten[06:05:24] <urn> oh, a 3d 'engine' in xna[06:05:31] <urn> space invaders[06:05:32] <aeth> That's good that you can make small games using engines and frameowrks. You're talking about making your own engine, which requires handling rendering, input, the game loop, etc. yourself.[06:05:38] <urn> with procedural content[06:05:42] <aeth> There are probably 20 systems of at least 2,000 lines each.[06:05:53] <aeth> oh, it's C so double the line count ;-)[06:06:07] <aeth> and yes, for simple 2D[06:06:17] <urn> Ive gotten as far, in sdl and c++, as I have in any 'engine' that makes it easier[06:06:37] <urn> so, these tools, these engines, yeah they help[06:06:50] <urn> but its not so hard, to just get there yourself[06:07:00] <urn> right?[06:07:51] <urn> now, for something more complex than a simple 2d game, mario. zelda. final fantasy. pong.[06:08:02] <urn> yeah, you kinda start to 'need' an engine[06:08:10] <aeth> Your first 3 months will be learning how graphics APIs work, involving lots of matrices and linear algebra. Even for 2D. Well, 2D simplifies it a bit, you can just use ortho. No input except ESC to quit during this period. Then you'll spend several months on keyboard input.[06:08:29] <urn> lol[06:08:31] <urn> no[06:08:44] <urn> I have a degree in game programming. you are wrong.[06:08:58] <aeth> Does game programming cover game engine programming?[06:09:10] <urn> sdl or allegro, makes this part about a week[06:09:37] <urn> I said, Ive used xna to make 3d space invaders, with nothing nbut code[06:10:03] <urn> procedural content, animation, collision, effects[06:10:25] <urn> Ive got my 3d math primer for game engines on the table[06:10:26] <LastTalon> Forgive my rudeness here, but if you don't want to hear our advice on the matter why are you asking?[06:10:48] <aeth> Well, okay, cut it from 3 months to 1 month each.[06:11:00] <urn> Im taking linear algebra in grad school, its vaguely applicable but far beyond whats needed here[06:11:07] <aeth> This is C+SDL we're talking about, especially if you're using real SDL graphics instead of its essentially deprecated 2D API[06:11:15] <urn> no for 3d, it got used more[06:11:37] <urn> but in 2d, not so much linear algebra[06:11:45] <aeth> eh[06:11:50] <aeth> depends on your architecture[06:11:52] <urn> 'a little'[06:12:05] <aeth> I still use matrices for my 2D.[06:12:33] <aeth> You can, of course, do things the "wrong" way in 2D, though.[06:12:38] <LastTalon> Like if you really think it'll take a week why not just do it?[06:12:50] <LastTalon> That's not a huge sunk cost.[06:13:04] <urn> well, at this point, I was hoping someone might say 'hey, have you tried such and such library, its only 12MB and has plenty of animation routines, some color effects and does tile maps really well'[06:13:30] <urn> but, no, unity, unreal, etc are just too big[06:13:40] <LastTalon> Well we've sort of been trying to tell you that.[06:13:44] <urn> plus, Im mostly thinking Ill stick with C for this[06:13:57] <aeth> Most people in gamedev circles online use the major engines. Game engine dev is essentially a separate area.[06:14:36] <LastTalon> The things you're looking for comprise an engine. If using an engine is out for you then I guess you'll have to make it yourself.[06:15:09] <LastTalon> But you also seem to think that's going to be an easier task, so you really aren't interested in hearing any advice.[06:15:25] <NiniGeo2> Ooooooh I enjoy game engine dev a lot :][06:15:28] <NiniGeo2> It's super fun for me personally.[06:16:07] <aeth> agreed[06:16:18] <aeth> But don't come into it expecting to finish on time and make a game with it on time imo[06:16:26] <aeth> Your experience might be different, of course.[06:16:37] <LastTalon> I like it, but its one of those things I would need to set aside a good chunk of time for.[06:16:40] <NiniGeo2> Yeah I would agree that making an engine takes a *very* long time.[06:16:44] <aeth> You might just spend a month getting "e" to render.[06:17:01] <urn> sfml, orx, honestly allegro is fine[06:17:25] <urn> ok, next week is midterms[06:17:38] <urn> Ive got a paper due, and a linear algebra exam[06:17:51] <urn> the week after, Ive got spring break[06:18:02] <NiniGeo2> Woooooo Spring Break![06:18:34] <urn> Im certain: I can get a character on screen, moving around with a joypad, and going to another screen and returning in that amount of time[06:18:44] <urn> 1 week.[06:19:01] <urn> using C/C++ and sdl/allegro/sfml/etc[06:19:11] <urn> no unity, no unreal, no gamemaker[06:19:15] <aeth> so you're one of those people who says "C" and means "C++"[06:19:19] <urn> just libs and an IDE[06:19:20] <urn> no[06:19:51] <urn> I mean ANSI C, or I might borrow from c++ instead of implementing my own OOP stack in C itself[06:20:06] <urn> ill probably avoid C++, but wantedto leave room for it[06:20:24] <NiniGeo2> Oh yeah I mean that's certainly doable. I've done that (small game, one week) a few times (once in college on the gameboy color, once when I limited myself to one week for a friend's birthday present).[06:20:25] <aeth> You don't need an OOP stack if you do an ECS. If you're doing C you want an ECS. It's very C-oriented. Many ECS examples I've seen are in C or in C++-that-basically-is-just-C[06:20:47] <urn> ECS?[06:20:52] <aeth> I mean, you can do OOPish in C, too, but the ECS alternative is *so* C oriented.[06:20:55] <NiniGeo2> Entity-Component System[06:21:00] <urn> neat[06:21:23] <aeth> urn: http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/component.html[06:21:24] <urn> and probably closer to what I need on what it sounds like than actual OOP[06:21:31] <urn> yup[06:22:01] <aeth> (that page isn't really an ECS, but it builds towards the motivation of why you might want one)[06:22:15] <aeth> The pattern is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity_component_system[06:22:23] <urn> as for actual paradigms/patterns, Im certain Ill kludge and just make it compile[06:22:41] <aeth> https://www.gamedev.net/articles/programming/general-and-gameplay-programming/implementing-component-entity-systems-r3382[06:23:14] <NiniGeo2> You get to learn what works and what doesn't work by doing it over and over again. Iteration is a great way to learn.[06:23:38] <aeth> To put it differently, yes you'll do $foo in a few months, but then you'll rewrite it 4 times.[06:24:01] <NiniGeo2> Probably, but I think that each time you rewrite it you'll learn some new lessons :)[06:25:27] <urn> ive years of that[06:25:34] <urn> Ill put it this way[06:25:43] <urn> Ive not used 'C' in about 8 years[06:26:04] <urn> I sat down with Quincy 2005 offlineon an xp laptop a few weeks back[06:26:25] <aeth> I did game modding and user-made-content before I did game engine dev. Progress is much slower on the engine side of things because it's the lower level. I'm not joking when I said you might spend a month on rendering "e". Or maybe you'll just use bitmaps and get that done in a day.[06:26:55] <urn> I wrote a fibonacci sequence generator. it took about 20-30 minutes of listeningto the compiler/errors until it compiled, then output the sequence as I desired[06:26:55] <aeth> It's very unpredictable, and entirely based on your decisions.[06:27:23] <aeth> A game engine is more on par with a web browser, an advanced text editor, a CAD, a word processor, etc.[06:27:31] <aeth> Maybe add a database to that list.[06:27:39] <urn> Im going to use sdl or allegro or sfml or such, so no, rendering e will take under an hour[06:28:18] <aeth> Under an hour? You should be in management with estimates like that. :-p[06:28:24] <urn> if I wanted to, if I was doing a slot machine on an SBC, then making the asm routines to render e, would take that long[06:28:43] <urn> 7-day rouguelike?[06:29:08] <urn> are you literally using ASM to render to vram?[06:29:16] <aeth> You write a roguelike in 7-days by writing a roguelike in a year and reusing most of your old code as libraries.[06:29:33] <urn> I believe you.[06:29:55] <NiniGeo2> Hehe, that's how they used to do it :P[06:29:59] <urn> I will call on my extensive library of books, my education, and my existing code[06:30:12] <aeth> Programmers like making roguelikes because it's all the fun programmer stuff (like advanced systems) and none (or at least not much) of the stuff programmers are bad at (like art and animations and sound)[06:30:30] <urn> no, for me, its really maintaining enough art assets, interest and focus.[06:30:48] <aeth> A roguelike is actually a fairly smart choice for a programmer because it plays to their strengths (programming advanced systems) and avoids their weaknesses (probably art)[06:30:59] <urn> what Im looking forward to: a low level file parser in ANSI C.[06:31:05] <NiniGeo2> :3[06:31:12] * NiniGeo2 gives urn a "fun times" sticker[06:31:21] <urn> building the DB, OOP (or ECS) system.[06:31:59] <urn> creating the 'class' structure for the game entities, characters, items, monsters, spells[06:32:15] <urn> implementing a control system[06:32:26] <urn> implementing the menu and dialogue systems[06:32:26] <aeth> urn: you should read up on ECSes for about a week and maybe write a toy one during that period... If you're going a C-oriented, low-level approach it might be the approach you want instead of OOP[06:32:47] <aeth> I wouldn't want to commit to classes before researching ECSes[06:32:59] <urn> Im thinking the same, plus, new paradigm out of OOP Agent-Based systems[06:33:17] * urn airquotes classes[06:34:03] <aeth> urn: I would recommend not doing time estimates, though.[06:34:21] <aeth> You'll probably get better game engine dev support without optimistic timelines, even if you can follow through on the timelines[06:34:33] <aeth> Since most people have been at it for years.[06:34:57] <urn> https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Learning_C_With_Game_Concepts/Designing_A_Roleplaying_Game[06:35:08] <urn> nah Im totally hyping myself up[06:35:25] <urn> neat stuff there, same site has a full OOP in C book[06:37:23] <urn> Ill borrow from ECS, but I dont think I like every part of it[06:37:41] <aeth> That's fine, that's why things get written from scratch anyway.[06:42:17] *** echelog-2 <echelog-2!~echelog-2@108.61.103.42> has joined #gamedev[06:44:41] <urn> looking around, sfml, orx, defold, flatredball, allegro, sdl and monogame all look like things to explore[06:44:55] <urn> I need to trim that for size, I think defold might be overkill[06:45:20] <urn> some very nice things in the market this cycle[06:45:43] <urn> still, if godot ran on this rig, Id probably just use it[06:46:02] <urn> anyway thx for chatting, if nothing else., Im inspired to get at it[06:46:13] <urn> Ill pick a toolset this week, and get going[06:46:43] <urn> https://nevercenter.com/pixelmash/[06:46:58] <urn> handy perhaps for artworks[06:47:03] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:c90e:d617:7f8c:e53d> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[06:47:30] <urn> thx again all. perhaps i just needed a little frixtion, to get that spark[06:48:49] <NiniGeo2> :][06:48:51] <NiniGeo2> Good luck urn! :D[06:49:01] *** urn <urn!6b4dad06@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.77.173.6> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[06:57:07] <R2robot> people should stick around longer[06:57:12] <R2robot> and he should be using raylib[06:57:15] <R2robot> https://www.raylib.com/[07:05:24] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p5B010479.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[07:05:35] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[07:06:36] <aeth> You kind of have to know IRC to know that the best responses are 3 hours later[07:07:07] <R2robot> 3-24h[07:07:17] <aeth> it does seem to meet his requirements, though[07:07:27] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p2003004CEA18F900C5172453708558D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[07:07:40] <aeth> (plain C, ancient OpenGL, small)[07:07:42] <R2robot> maybe he'll be back[07:14:42] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has joined #gamedev[07:40:02] *** Wayfarer <Wayfarer!6b4dad06@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.77.173.6> has joined #gamedev[07:40:06] <Wayfarer> Im urn[07:40:14] <Wayfarer> https://hastebin.com/nuruliwili.coffeescript[07:40:25] <NiniGeo2> Wayfarer = Urn?[07:40:36] <Wayfarer> I made notes, again, looking through these, I see some cool stuff to try later[07:40:37] <Wayfarer> yes[07:40:58] <Wayfarer> I am Urn, Storyteller, Vagabond, Creature[07:41:26] <Wayfarer> still, right now, its basically SDL or Allegro[07:42:04] <R2robot> Wayfarer: https://www.raylib.com/[07:42:11] <Wayfarer> thats: CR34TUR3[07:42:33] <R2robot> a new challenger appears![07:43:55] <Wayfarer> raylib is good for graphics, but for the same reason Im avoiding sfml, no input support, gamepads. also, ray doesnt have audio does it?[07:44:14] <R2robot> it does[07:44:44] <Wayfarer> i didnt see that, I thought it 'just did graphics really well'[07:45:08] <Wayfarer> i see audio, but no input stuff?[07:45:45] <Wayfarer> oh its in core[07:45:47] <Wayfarer> https://www.raylib.com/cheatsheet/cheatsheet.html[07:45:47] <R2robot> look in examples[07:45:49] <R2robot> core[07:45:51] <R2robot> yeah[07:45:52] <Wayfarer> very clean api here[07:46:21] <R2robot> https://www.raylib.com/examples/web/core/loader.html?name=core_input_gamepad[07:46:54] <Wayfarer> super nice. xtra-green[07:49:56] <Wayfarer> only sometimes recognizes my controller, but this is a browser demo, and when it did, couldnt get my analog sticks (logitech dual action pro, but its old)[07:50:03] <Wayfarer> still... awesome![07:51:16] <Wayfarer> ouch! 100 MB[07:51:24] <R2robot> ?[07:51:27] <R2robot> 2nd person that has said that[07:51:36] <R2robot> the compiled lib is like 4 mb for me[07:51:38] <Wayfarer> far step from 8 or 14 MB, or sdl's .. 487kb[07:51:45] <R2robot> 4mb for me[07:51:59] <Wayfarer> Im downloading the thing that said download here[07:53:09] <R2robot> that's teh windows installer. lol[07:54:04] <Wayfarer> im on windows[07:54:04] <R2robot> 99.9% of that is the installer itself[07:54:11] <Wayfarer> win 10 and xp[07:54:15] <Wayfarer> well, got it now[07:54:22] <Wayfarer> my phone is internet[07:54:35] <Wayfarer> so thats... 1% of the month[07:54:39] <Wayfarer> no worries[07:56:06] <Wayfarer> bonus for pure C[07:56:09] <Wayfarer> :)[07:58:19] <Wayfarer> also, dat API... i think as3 was that clean and easy to navigate[08:00:45] <Wayfarer> compare to http://wiki.libsdl.org/CategoryAPI[08:00:53] <Wayfarer> allegro is even uglier[08:01:20] <Wayfarer> wow, thx, there is a lot of stuff in raylib i think is keen[08:01:54] *** domenkk <domenkk!uid25676@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ruwiqxazjjznmrea> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[08:03:15] <Wayfarer> mm. 418mb for mingW and notepad++[08:04:19] <Wayfarer> so, also 90+ mb of 'content', examples and demos, documentation[08:04:28] <Wayfarer> so that explains the installer size[08:07:12] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has quit IRC (Quit: 0x80)[08:15:39] <R2robot> yeah, i'm on a mac and installed it via brew. the whole lib directory, the static and dynamic libraries combined are 1.7mb[08:16:02] <R2robot> so the rest of that is installer fluff[08:17:32] <Wayfarer> havent used a mac in... 15 years?[08:17:55] <R2robot> same for me, but for windows :)[08:18:07] <Wayfarer> it was mingw, and demo files, the examples[08:18:09] <R2robot> only used it when i'm forced to (work)[08:18:24] <Wayfarer> win10 is ok, 7 was alright[08:18:32] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[08:18:36] <brainzap> hello is this the godot developer meetup[08:18:49] <Wayfarer> im jumping back to linux for some things shortly[08:18:51] <R2robot> i've never been a windows user.. except in 1995. lol[08:18:58] <R2robot> then went back to linux[08:19:25] <Wayfarer> anyway, its installed now[08:19:32] <R2robot> cool[08:19:51] <R2robot> GLHF[08:20:07] <Wayfarer> as is sdl and allegro. Im looking forward to monogame and defold down the line, though I miss realmcrafter[08:20:15] <Wayfarer> night all[08:20:33] <Wayfarer> and R2robot do you go by Sitri from time to time?>[08:20:52] <R2robot> irc name? no, never[08:20:56] <R2robot> this and r2ro[08:21:06] <Wayfarer> d&d name[08:21:09] <R2robot> nope[08:21:17] <Wayfarer> friend of mine goes by 'R'[08:21:31] <Wayfarer> ciao[08:21:34] <R2robot> o/[08:23:09] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[08:26:17] *** Wayfarer <Wayfarer!6b4dad06@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.77.173.6> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[09:09:56] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined #gamedev[09:10:19] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:864:d38a:84f3:4542> has joined #gamedev[09:21:41] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@077213097222.dynamic.telenor.dk> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:29:15] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[09:48:51] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:e08b:76e1:45:c1e6:1bae:629f> has joined #gamedev[10:04:07] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)[10:44:28] <Donitzo> some ideas seem clever in dreams, but no so much in real life[10:44:45] <Donitzo> like wearing a mobile clothes rack so you can just swap out your costume as a disguise[10:44:46] <Donitzo> hmm[11:04:59] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has joined #gamedev[11:27:46] <brainzap> hmm Donitzo please wear pants[11:30:07] <Cahaan> god I hate windows updates[11:30:18] <Cahaan> and those fucking forced reboots[11:30:58] <Donitzo> it's not so much forced, it's more like "surprise! We restarted your computer while you slept. Have a fun time finding all the tabs you had open you BITCH"[11:31:13] <brainzap> just dont make updates lol[11:32:39] <Cahaan> I just hate hearing my computer starting while I sleep (it's a laptop and I always put it in hibernate mode)[11:32:47] <Cahaan> it's just wrong[11:33:15] <Cahaan> and I checked the options there is just NOTHING to disable automatic reboots after an update[11:33:30] <Cahaan> and I don't even know if I can disable automatic updates at all (windows 10 home)[11:33:48] <Donitzo> you can[11:33:54] <Donitzo> just go to settings for updates[11:33:59] <Donitzo> choose to download but install manually[11:34:16] <brainzap> then you set it to update at night, and during the night you get a BOOM WHITE ROOM[11:34:23] <brainzap> when the display restarts[11:34:59] <Donitzo> oh god damnit[11:35:00] <Cahaan> I don't see anything in the settings seriously[11:35:06] <Donitzo> where is the classic windows update window[11:35:20] <Donitzo> for fucks sake microsfot these fancy shit shit shit windows are not an improvement[11:35:26] <Donitzo> microsoft*[11:35:48] <Cahaan> I think they just removed the possibility to disable updates as a whole[11:35:55] <Cahaan> because I remember I had that with windows 7[11:36:55] <Donitzo> oh whatever I can't be arsed to care anymore[11:37:35] <Cahaan> you know, I hate MS[11:37:48] <Cahaan> and still I can't use anything else than windows because all my programs are running on windows[11:40:06] <Donitzo> windows is comfortable[11:40:37] <Donitzo> it's more or less stable and won't throw a fit and not start because you accidentally updated the wrong package[11:40:39] <Donitzo> most of the time[11:41:24] <Donitzo> I mean it's not rare that I completely reinstall a linux vm just because everything broke[11:42:00] <brainzap> https://shiro.ch/gamedeeev.webp[11:42:39] <Cahaan> windows is ok as an usable os[11:42:55] <Cahaan> it's just the update policies that piss me off[11:43:11] <Donitzo> and the microsoft spying isn't good either[11:43:26] <Donitzo> but, at least they're a big company[11:43:33] <Donitzo> not some random hacker[11:46:03] <Cahaan> when the laptop is in "hibernate" mode it just boots when the fuck it wants to update itself, and if I shut it down instead, of course it will decide to run the frigging updates before shutting down[11:46:19] <Cahaan> and takes like more than one minute to STFU[11:46:34] <Cahaan> anyway[11:46:36] <Cahaan> first world problems[11:47:28] *** ragecryx <ragecryx!~ragecryx@2a02:2149:842a:e300:203c:e80f:deca:5fd> has joined #gamedev[12:02:33] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[12:02:37] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[12:03:03] <jprajzne> https://twitter.com/romero/status/1106606630458789889 sweet... :)[12:06:59] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[12:07:25] *** jprajzne 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<brainzap!~brainzap@213.55.211.33> has joined #gamedev[13:12:53] <brainzap> heeeeey[13:13:16] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@213.55.211.33> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:13:25] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[13:21:08] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined #gamedev[13:26:15] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[13:30:24] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[13:30:52] *** HZun <HZun!~HZun@0x3ec721e2.osd.customer.dk.telia.net> has joined #gamedev[13:33:51] *** ragecryx <ragecryx!~ragecryx@2a02:2149:842a:e300:203c:e80f:deca:5fd> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[13:43:55] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:f4f0:9ea1:e60d:95d7> has joined #gamedev[13:45:45] *** ragecryx <ragecryx!~ragecryx@2a02:2149:842a:e300:203c:e80f:deca:5fd> has joined #gamedev[13:45:53] *** ragecryx <ragecryx!~ragecryx@2a02:2149:842a:e300:203c:e80f:deca:5fd> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:47:56] <brainzap> https://twitter.com/gaohmee/status/903510060197744640[13:51:27] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@2600:1700:31f0:8180:f4f0:9ea1:e60d:95d7> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[13:54:28] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164> has joined #gamedev[13:58:45] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[14:06:20] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@077213097222.dynamic.telenor.dk> has joined #gamedev[14:10:05] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[14:13:26] *** toxictype <toxictype!~Akira@balticom-189-98.balticom.lv> has joined #gamedev[14:13:27] <toxictype> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M72YNLDzYc[14:13:31] <toxictype> Is this epin?[14:18:38] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[14:20:24] <pulse> extremely nice, good and legendary[14:31:13] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has joined #gamedev[14:32:16] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Quit: jprajzne)[14:32:24] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[14:32:53] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has joined #gamedev[14:33:07] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[14:36:48] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[14:37:10] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[14:38:52] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[14:40:39] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[14:41:14] *** perplexity 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has joined #gamedev[15:51:18] <toxictype> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M72YNLDzYc[15:51:22] <toxictype> Is this epin?[16:13:59] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[16:20:57] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:7143:ac6b:ffdc:ab55> has joined #gamedev[16:32:31] *** Half-Shot <Half-Shot!half-shoth@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-mddlpkfkesgakcqz> has quit IRC (Write error: Connection reset by peer)[16:32:42] *** turt2live <turt2live!travist2li@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-nmvdgubxtnaheqgn> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:35:33] *** rev_strangehope <rev_strangehope!~revstrang@ec2-13-115-230-7.ap-northeast-1.compute.amazonaws.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[16:36:28] *** Iolo <Iolo!~iolo@dsl-tkubng22-58c023-38.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[16:37:31] *** rev_strangehope <rev_strangehope!~revstrang@ec2-13-115-230-7.ap-northeast-1.compute.amazonaws.com> has joined #gamedev[16:38:25] *** Iolo <Iolo!~iolo@dsl-tkubng22-58c023-38.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #gamedev[16:38:42] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has joined #gamedev[16:47:41] *** Half-Shot <Half-Shot!half-shoth@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-xalpqppukweyrizm> has joined #gamedev[16:52:54] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has joined #gamedev[16:54:26] <brainzap> hey guys how is your weekend going?[16:57:27] <solidfox> fuck[16:57:35] <solidfox> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BebGA5x3RvQ tetris story mode already made[16:57:48] <solidfox> i've spent so much time on this[16:57:49] <solidfox> for nothing![16:58:09] <R2robot> so?[16:58:11] <R2robot> keep going[16:58:55] <R2robot> you think that stopped every company from copying ipods and iphones?[16:59:07] <solidfox> ok ok you're right[16:59:25] <solidfox> think I need and ECS though[17:01:18] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-178-005-226-169.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[17:02:33] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[17:05:55] <LunarJetman> the tetris company will sue you[17:06:48] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[17:07:00] *** freefork_afk is now known as freestyledork[17:07:15] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[17:13:16] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[17:14:08] *** aeth <aeth!~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[17:14:35] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has joined #gamedev[17:16:08] *** aeth <aeth!~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn> has joined #gamedev[17:17:01] <brainzap> come here solidfox, huggy time[17:17:15] *** xrash <xrash!~xrash@179.113.56.13> has joined #gamedev[17:17:17] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Quit: jprajzne)[17:20:34] *** aly777 <aly777!~kes777@50-242-177-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[17:22:21] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[17:23:36] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[17:25:35] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has joined #gamedev[17:27:07] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[17:29:50] *** turt2live <turt2live!travist2li@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-hgsucofpkuyjvrrd> has joined #gamedev[17:37:34] <solidfox> thanks brainzap[17:43:44] <brainzap> always there for you bro[17:46:05] *** xrash <xrash!~xrash@179.113.56.13> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:49:27] <o][o> R2robot: I think I found what I needed[17:49:46] <o][o> git revert HEAD; then git checkout the files I want to preserve[17:50:02] <R2robot> good luck :P[17:50:20] <o][o> git checkout has very different semantics with individual files and commit hashes[17:50:29] <o][o> that's what was confusing me[17:50:30] <o][o> fuck that shit[17:50:42] <o][o> https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/undoing-changes very nice page[17:51:29] <R2robot> nice[17:51:51] <brainzap> you can go back 1 commit, safe. with the following command: git reset --soft HEAD^[17:52:14] <brainzap> the commit is then moved from branch back to staging.[17:52:43] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:e08b:76e1:45:c1e6:1bae:629f> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[17:52:50] <o][o> git reset is not great for public repos[17:53:05] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #gamedev[17:53:14] <o][o> in branches, it is fine[17:59:52] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has joined #gamedev[18:00:24] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[18:11:57] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[18:34:34] *** code_zombie <code_zombie!~code_zomb@2605:a601:aa1:da00:a0d7:b7c9:398:b0f9> has joined #gamedev[18:37:16] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Quit: jprajzne)[18:50:10] *** HZun <HZun!~HZun@0x3ec721e2.osd.customer.dk.telia.net> has joined #gamedev[18:55:53] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:e083:1d11:90c2:f140:a541:3daf> has joined #gamedev[19:01:39] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[19:09:49] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[19:35:32] *** freefork_afk is now known as freestyledork[19:35:39] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[19:40:35] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:42:35] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[19:46:20] *** bkeys <bkeys!~Thunderbi@c-76-17-206-162.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[19:47:07] <bkeys> Hey guys, does anyone have any clue on the concepts of moving an object forward relative to the rotation of the camera?[19:54:05] <brainzap> the concept of moving is known[19:56:16] <aeth> The concept of moving is generally the domain of physics[19:56:31] <bkeys> I'm trying to make a golf demo where I rotate the camera and knock the ball around[19:56:40] <bkeys> but it wants to move strictly across the z axis when I apply the impulse[19:56:48] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Quit: jprajzne)[19:57:08] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[19:58:07] <brainzap> oh my god my brain just brought up that comic style game[19:58:10] <brainzap> which was sooo goood[19:58:29] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[19:59:44] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has joined #gamedev[20:06:44] <bkeys> Figured it out[20:21:36] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[20:22:46] <R2robot> share with the rest of the class[20:23:14] <notchris> ugh[20:23:18] <notchris> so much driving today[20:24:03] *** bkeys <bkeys!~Thunderbi@c-76-17-206-162.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has left #gamedev[20:25:23] *** LucaTM <LucaTM!~LucaTM@unaffiliated/lucatm> has joined #gamedev[20:27:14] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Quit: jprajzne)[20:27:31] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[20:28:53] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has joined #gamedev[20:31:49] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[20:32:16] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[20:38:55] <Donitzo> a lot of screaming children today[20:46:42] <pulse> hot peppers are the best fruit[20:54:01] <o][o> are they?[20:58:24] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[21:02:55] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:06:08] *** englosh <englosh!1f12f86e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.18.248.110> has joined #gamedev[21:06:44] <englosh> Hello. Is it true that when a game loads, that the FPS limit should be turned off? Because it slows down loading.[21:20:29] *** LucaTM <LucaTM!~LucaTM@unaffiliated/lucatm> has quit IRC (Quit: To infinity and beyond...)[21:22:17] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Quit: jprajzne)[21:22:48] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[21:24:39] <pulse> englosh, wat[21:26:36] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[21:26:48] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[21:27:07] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[21:43:28] *** HZun <HZun!~HZun@0x3ec721e2.osd.customer.dk.telia.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:47:17] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:50:56] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[21:51:50] <notchris> hmm[21:57:36] *** aeth_ <aeth_!~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn> has joined #gamedev[21:59:54] *** aeth <aeth!~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[22:00:05] *** aeth_ is now known as aeth[22:00:10] <NiniGeo2> englosh there are some games that do work while loading only at the beginning/end of frames. Those games might benefit in load-times by uncapping framerate limiters during loading.[22:02:17] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Quit: jprajzne)[22:02:17] <englosh> ahh yes. They don't even go through the loop while loading. That's why there's mostly a static image[22:03:43] <NiniGeo2> I think that most modern games have the ability to load fully asynchronously, so they would actually benefit from having a harsher framerate limiter during loading to avoid GPU contention between loading and rendering.[22:05:20] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[22:07:06] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[22:12:09] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[22:14:35] <englosh> how do most people here store the save data of the game? in plain text? That can be easily modified. I'm thinking about encrypting the save data to a pattern and if the pattern is broken, it means that the player modified the save data. Does something like this already exist?[22:15:06] <o][o> no. you just discovered a super innovation[22:15:38] <o][o> who would think of encrypting data these days?[22:15:49] <notchris> Facebook[22:15:52] <notchris> oh wait err...[22:15:56] <o][o> :D[22:16:07] <englosh> you mean saving to the cloud is better?[22:16:30] <notchris> there are different methods, you could ensure fair play with cloud saving but[22:16:33] <notchris> that can be involved[22:16:33] <NiniGeo2> I think it depends upon the game. There's a lot of games that are short/small/noncompetitive that they don't really care about users editing save-files.[22:16:36] <o][o> yeah! you can make animals with clouds[22:17:16] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Quit: jprajzne)[22:17:51] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[22:24:11] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has left #gamedev[22:24:19] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[22:26:48] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Quit: jprajzne)[22:32:35] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[22:36:48] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[22:37:10] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[22:42:02] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[22:45:15] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #gamedev[22:51:57] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has joined #gamedev[22:55:27] *** aeth <aeth!~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[22:57:27] *** aeth <aeth!~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn> has joined #gamedev[22:59:28] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[23:00:07] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)[23:04:39] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[23:06:42] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[23:17:14] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Quit: jprajzne)[23:17:32] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[23:21:59] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[23:22:21] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!~jprajzne@static-84-42-226-12.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[23:23:29] *** LucaTM <LucaTM!~LucaTM@unaffiliated/lucatm> has joined #gamedev[23:36:49] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:4466:7600:3ab1:d4d4:9081:13c3> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)[23:39:11] *** englosh <englosh!1f12f86e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.18.248.110> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[23:49:55] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[23:58:01] *** timchugh <timchugh!~timothy@23.226.131.244> has joined #gamedev[23:58:15] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[23:59:01] *** timchugh is now known as TimothyMcHugh-So[23:59:06] *** TimothyMcHugh-So is now known as TimothyMcHugh[23:59:26] <TimothyMcHugh> Good evening :)