March 14, 2019 
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March 14, 2019 [00:01:12] *** freestyledork_ <freestyledork_!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has joined #gamedev[00:01:31] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[00:01:36] *** freestyledork_ is now known as freestyledork[00:05:05] *** knf <knf!~Hermestri@106.51.240.91> has joined #gamedev[00:08:22] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[00:13:30] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has joined #gamedev[00:34:42] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[00:35:04] <notchris> o/[00:35:09] <notchris> sup pulse[00:37:58] *** knf <knf!~Hermestri@106.51.240.91> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[00:39:00] *** adamsky <adamsky!~quassel@178235186241.unknown.vectranet.pl> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:45:01] <pulse> notchris, yo[00:52:21] *** vroom <vroom!~vroom@unaffiliated/vroom> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:52:47] *** vroom <vroom!~vroom@unaffiliated/vroom> has joined #gamedev[00:53:31] *** BlueProtoman <BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@ool-4577fdaf.dyn.optonline.net> has joined #gamedev[00:54:14] <BlueProtoman> How can one detect whether or not a user has tampered with their save data?[00:55:12] <pulse> save a hash[00:55:34] <pulse> run save binary data through a hash function, save that hash somewhere in the file[00:55:51] <pulse> as you extract, fetch the hash and the binary data, run it through a hash function again, check if it produces the same hash[00:56:02] <BlueProtoman> pulse: Ah. That simple, huh? Thank you.[00:56:08] <pulse> you'd have to go through a lot of trouble to go around that[00:56:16] <pulse> BlueProtoman, pretty much[00:56:40] <pulse> i mean easiest is probably to hack the executable at that point[00:57:00] <pulse> or find the hash function and reproduce the process[00:57:03] <pulse> it's a pain in the ass for sure[01:00:05] <LastTalon> That wouldn't really stop someone from just hashing their save as well.[01:01:28] <NiniGeo2> They'd need to reverse-engineer the game binary in order to determine the hash algorithm and the IV though.[01:01:45] <LastTalon> Well then you're just relying on obscurity though.[01:02:03] <LastTalon> I believe this question was asked another way some months ago actually.[01:02:27] <LastTalon> Basically when you want to get down to it there is no perfect security if you're running something on someone else's machine.[01:02:38] <LastTalon> Same applies here.[01:02:50] <LastTalon> You can make things difficult for someone, but you can't stop them.[01:02:59] <NiniGeo2> Yeah, I'd agree with that.[01:03:45] <LastTalon> The best option imo is to find a way to verify that the save state is a valid one for your game.[01:03:55] <LastTalon> Assuming that's what you're worried about.[01:05:03] <LastTalon> Likewise, saving a hash also doesn't solve the problem of copying a save, if that's what you were worried about. Like... if I had a save where I was doing really well I could just copy the data hash intact and send it to whoever I like (or use it myself later on as a starting point).[01:05:32] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has joined #gamedev[01:05:44] <pulse> it's still a huge pain in the ass[01:05:54] <LastTalon> Copying a file? Lol[01:05:59] <LastTalon> Copying a file isn't hard.[01:06:16] <pulse> why would that be a problem anyway[01:06:21] <NiniGeo2> I think it all depends upon why you want to detect whether or not a user has tampered with their save data.[01:06:27] <pulse> the problem you're trying to solve is having savegames tampered with[01:06:51] <LastTalon> Right, like NiniGeo2 said.[01:07:00] <LastTalon> It depends why you want to know if they're tampered with.[01:07:04] <LastTalon> What counts as tampering.[01:07:13] <pulse> editing anything in the savefile :p[01:07:23] <pulse> you want to ensure the savedata is intact[01:07:52] <LastTalon> Well that might be your goal, but that's not necessarily what everyone means when they say that.[01:08:14] <LastTalon> If all you wanted to do is verify that the save is intact then you don't even need to hash it.[01:08:23] <pulse> i mean the original question asked specifically for tampered save data[01:08:24] <LastTalon> Hashing it is fine, but you don't need to do all that.[01:08:53] <pulse> what's the alternative[01:09:00] <LastTalon> Right... like we both just said though, what it means to tamper with save data means different things to different people.[01:09:38] <pulse> idk i find it pretty unambiguous lol[01:09:43] <pulse> game -> savedata -> game[01:09:53] <LastTalon> Okay then.[01:09:55] <pulse> you want to ensure it's the same data your game outputted at some previous point[01:09:58] <LastTalon> Well then none of this is directed at you[01:10:15] <LastTalon> Lol[01:11:25] <pulse> it's still quite easy to hack if you know what you're doing i guess[01:11:35] <pulse> but most common users won't give a damn[01:11:56] <LastTalon> Doesn't matter. If the game is popular enough and you're trying to prevent people from loading saves that way someone will make a tool for it.[01:12:03] <pulse> yeah[01:12:13] <pulse> it's just a matter of how painful you want to make it[01:12:18] <pulse> you can complicate it further[01:12:30] <pulse> encrypt the data, do some weird magic numbers bithacks, etc[01:12:38] <pulse> but it's futile[01:13:06] <LastTalon> If all you cared about was your game generating the save data the best option would probably be to sign it.[01:13:31] <pulse> you can make it REALLY painful to hack if you record the entire data from the playthrough :D[01:13:41] <pulse> hack that lol[01:13:46] <LastTalon> Someone without the key couldn't just sign a forged save.[01:13:47] <pulse> downside is probably 1TB of savedata[01:14:11] <LastTalon> But it would be susceptible to reverse engineering still.[01:14:34] <pulse> LastTalon, you'd have to encrypt it yeah[01:14:47] <NiniGeo2> If your savedata is pretty small, you could save it serverside (of course then this has the added problem that now your game requires an Internet connection to play).[01:15:16] <pulse> NiniGeo2, you could just inject your local save data by hacking around the server[01:15:19] <LastTalon> NiniGeo2, and that would still leave the problem of verifying the save data came form the game. :P[01:15:28] <LastTalon> Unless it were generated on server.[01:15:53] <LastTalon> Always online content. :D[01:16:47] <LastTalon> Except you're not even doing it to verify a game purchase. Lol[01:17:55] <LastTalon> Personally I don't see the point in all the fuss.[01:18:12] <LastTalon> If someone wants to edit their saves that's up to them.[01:18:14] <pulse> here's a fun obscure system: binary file is just a huge number, right[01:18:18] <pulse> so do some weird math with that number[01:18:22] <pulse> and save that[01:18:31] <pulse> would that be hard to crack :D[01:18:47] <NiniGeo2> That sounds a lot like encrypting the save-file, pulse :)[01:18:51] <pulse> :D[01:18:56] <LastTalon> NiniGeo2, :P[01:19:16] <pulse> game => binary * 2 => savefile => binary / 2 => game[01:19:16] * notchris returns[01:19:19] <notchris> sorry phone call :X[01:19:23] <pulse> replace *2 and /2 with some appropriate crazy equation[01:19:30] <LastTalon> notchris, what type?[01:19:49] <notchris> Reviewed a site design for a client[01:19:53] <notchris> normal stuff[01:20:05] <NiniGeo2> The old Activision game, Netstorm, encrypted their game data by XOR'ing a string against it :)[01:20:06] <LastTalon> I meant the return.[01:20:16] <LastTalon> Don't mind me, just making programming dad jokes.[01:20:20] <aeth> If the save isn't just (potentially compressed) text people probably won't mess with it unless your game is extremely popular[01:20:31] <notchris> LastTalon: it was in a foreach so i couldnt break :X[01:21:22] <LastTalon> NiniGeo2, the most secure encryption[01:21:49] <aeth> At some point it just becomes easier to run your game in a debugger and modify values there than to modify a save[01:22:20] <NiniGeo2> Yep[01:22:29] <LastTalon> That just sounds like security through obscurity with extra steps. :P[01:22:42] <NiniGeo2> Everything clientside sort of is though :P[01:22:53] <LastTalon> Yeah,[01:22:54] <NiniGeo2> It's all about adding enough steps to deter all but the most dedicated attackers :][01:22:59] <pulse> make 150 steps into obscurity[01:23:04] <pulse> each one more madness inducing[01:23:04] <LastTalon> Its on their machine, its their data.[01:23:08] <LastTalon> What are you gonna do about it?[01:23:09] <pulse> drive the crackr crazy[01:23:21] <notchris> make the pass ‘i love nickelback'[01:23:25] <notchris> no one wants to write that[01:23:38] <LastTalon> Look at this photograph[01:23:43] <notchris> lmao[01:23:47] <notchris> NO[01:23:58] <aeth> Alternatively, make it trivial to modify saves and just detect that with hashes in the cloud and invalidate them for leaderboards or whatever but otherwise permit it.[01:24:28] <aeth> People who want to just have fun might be OK with no leaderboards/achievements so you reduce the pool of people willing to hack the game/save[01:24:59] <pulse> aha, i figured it out[01:25:00] <LastTalon> Like I said, if they want to do that, that's up to them. I have no problem with it.[01:25:03] <pulse> a foolproof method[01:25:10] <pulse> have the save code on the SERVER[01:25:11] <pulse> :D[01:25:17] <pulse> do obscure magic => spit out file[01:25:30] <pulse> can't reverse engineer if you're in the dark without a light[01:25:41] <pulse> also have load code on the server[01:25:43] <o][o> huhuhu[01:26:09] <LastTalon> I mean you could reverse engineer it by looking at what the client sends the server when it tries to save.[01:27:05] <pulse> damn[01:27:17] <aeth> Steam has cloud saves. Are they secure?[01:27:18] <pulse> i mean it's still shooting at the dark[01:27:26] <pulse> even with actual game data[01:27:42] <pulse> how can you figure out the correct order to produce some binary output[01:27:54] <pulse> unless you could compare against known data, hmm[01:28:01] <pulse> still very hard[01:28:05] <pulse> almost impossible even[01:28:07] <LastTalon> Well you can just try a few times.[01:28:14] <NiniGeo2> I'm like 95% certain that with Steam Cloud you can still use the copy-paste method. Steam Cloud is just taking whatever's in your "Saves" folder and uploading it to the cloud verbatim, and then redownloading it later.[01:28:14] <LastTalon> You give it one game state and check the save.[01:28:20] <LastTalon> You change a little bit in your game and check the save.[01:28:31] <pulse> yeah but the operations could be such that it produces completely arbitrary looking bits[01:28:33] <pulse> so how can you tell[01:28:39] <LastTalon> Although generating them on the server opens the opportunity for secure encryption.[01:28:44] <pulse> each small change will produce unrecognizable output[01:28:53] <LastTalon> So if you really cared that would be a secure way.[01:28:56] <pulse> even without encryption[01:29:23] <pulse> just do 5 bit ops one after another and it's almost impossible to guess the order[01:29:27] <LastTalon> "the operations could be such that it produces completely arbitrary looking bits" : Encryption[01:29:28] <pulse> and you'd have to know how the data is serialized[01:29:49] <pulse> LastTalon, yeah but my point is you don't even need some hardcore encryption[01:30:08] <LastTalon> Whatever floats your boat.[01:30:25] <notchris> What if u just disable saving[01:30:29] <notchris> :O[01:30:38] <LastTalon> Either way they need a secret they can't get because its on your server and no longer on their machine.[01:30:51] <LastTalon> notchris, then people riot.[01:30:57] <notchris> :)[01:31:14] <LastTalon> Some games that have "hardcore" modes have tried the "not letting them save" thing.[01:31:28] <pulse> i want to make a hardcore rpg with permadeath[01:31:33] <pulse> i wonder how many negative comments i'd get[01:31:38] <pulse> even if everything else was perfect[01:31:42] <pulse> :>[01:32:08] <NiniGeo2> I find the trend of games adding a cost to saving to be interesting (ref: Amnesia TDD Hardmode and Kingdom Come: Deliverance).[01:32:18] <pulse> resident eveil[01:32:23] <NiniGeo2> Yeah sure.[01:32:28] <pulse> running out of ribbons is a real threat[01:32:53] <aeth> Permadeath is overdone and not cutting edge. You need permapermadeath. Write a is_dead bit on player death and then forbid them from playing ever again[01:33:05] <aeth> YOLO.[01:33:05] <pulse> permadeath would require the game to be extremely fair though[01:33:16] <pulse> like over the top[01:33:31] <LastTalon> When you die in the game you die for real[01:33:35] <pulse> because if players got killed because of ugly game mechanics they'd be all rage[01:33:47] <LastTalon> Cuz that's not a trope or anything. :P[01:33:50] <pulse> which is probably the hardest part of making permadeath a system[01:34:11] <aeth> You could just copy RL and have an incredibly unfair system[01:34:35] <aeth> With permadeath, too[01:34:41] <LastTalon> First try[01:34:54] <pulse> permadeath also runs the risk of making for a short game[01:35:03] <LastTalon> Low replayability :P[01:35:06] <pulse> imagine having 16 hours of gameplay in and you die[01:35:08] <pulse> it's gonna suck[01:35:17] <aeth> A risk? It's always short and normally procgen.[01:35:23] <LastTalon> Isn't the idea of permadeath to increase replayability? :P[01:35:28] <aeth> 3 hours or so for a run[01:35:35] <pulse> yeah but you don't want the player to experience the same 3 hours over and over :p[01:35:55] <notchris> if you die youre reincarnated as a mount[01:36:04] <NiniGeo2> lol[01:36:15] <aeth> You could instead of procgen just have tons of open content in every direction available from the start and not level-gated[01:36:30] <pulse> yes but if it's a progress based game with some kind of leveling[01:36:38] <pulse> then you're still going to be going through the same grind over and over[01:36:47] <pulse> unless you introduce some kind of mechanics where it's easier to survive later on[01:36:48] <pulse> or something[01:36:48] <LastTalon> If[01:37:06] <LastTalon> You can't just mash game mechanics together and hope it makes an engaging game. :P[01:37:09] <aeth> It is probably better to have it exploration-as-progression if you don't want proc gen[01:37:16] <pulse> LastTalon, you kinda can, lol[01:37:38] <LastTalon> I suppose I ruined it by saying "hope" in there.[01:37:40] <LastTalon> You can always hope.[01:37:46] <aeth> no[01:38:18] <aeth> hope is how you get people whose only gamedev role is ideas[01:38:55] <pulse> i once played a tetris clone where the blocks were naked women in various poses[01:38:57] <pulse> i rest my case[01:39:20] <LastTalon> That's an aesthetic, not a mechanic.[01:39:33] <pulse> i remain unconvinced[01:39:35] <pulse> :D[01:40:00] <LastTalon> The hats are my favorite mechanic.[01:46:16] <pulse> notchris, https://clyp.it/lo42ixbm[01:46:26] <pulse> idk how to continue[01:46:32] <pulse> :S[01:46:43] <notchris> OOO[01:46:45] <notchris> Can i add to it[01:46:55] <pulse> sure[01:47:53] <notchris> whats the bpm[01:48:03] <pulse> hmm how did i extract the mp3 link earlier[01:48:08] <pulse> notchris, 124[01:48:10] <notchris> ty[01:48:12] <notchris> i have it[01:48:16] <pulse> ah k[01:48:50] <pulse> i predict black metal[01:50:41] <pulse> somewhat better version https://clyp.it/dazn0rdi[01:50:57] <pulse> accentuation was a bit weird[01:51:01] <pulse> kinda subtle change[01:51:17] *** defk0n <defk0n!8adb8d11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.219.141.17> has joined #gamedev[01:51:44] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@5ec16e1a.skybroadband.com> has quit IRC (Quit: LunarJetman)[01:51:47] <defk0n> does anyone know if there is a way to get the pixels on screen from a 3d object.[01:51:58] <pulse> yeah[01:52:14] <pulse> it's what graphics is all about lol[01:52:56] <defk0n> no i mean like, tell me how many pixels gets occupied by a 3d object. normally everything gets rendered in a giant framebuffer. i want to know exactly what object accounts for what pixels[01:53:15] <pulse> hmm[01:53:48] <pulse> depends on a lot of thigns[01:53:59] <pulse> what type of objects[01:54:14] <pulse> if you have no interface to the objects then you're talking computer vision i guess[01:54:50] <defk0n> lets say i have a interface, to know exactly where the object is[01:55:30] <defk0n> iguess you need to do world2screen for every vertex[01:55:37] <defk0n> but i wonder if there isa better way.[01:56:09] <defk0n> i mean the data is already there, it has to project the object to draw it.[01:56:17] <defk0n> but i think its lost which object gets drawn[01:56:52] <pulse> exactly where on the screen or exactly where in the 3d space[01:57:07] <pulse> do these objects have some kind of characteristic?[01:57:27] <pulse> like, can they overlap, are they polygon shaped, do they have specific colors, etc[01:58:08] <defk0n> they are just polygonal mesh. anywhere in the 3d space.[01:59:09] <pulse> i mean, if you have the coordinates of your view[01:59:13] <pulse> you can potentially do the translations yourself[01:59:20] <pulse> figure out culling and all that[01:59:47] <pulse> and you have all the coordinates to figure out the polygons on the view[02:00:01] <pulse> how expensive and complicated that is really depends though[02:00:35] <defk0n> hmmm[02:05:43] <pulse> you have to be kinda accurate though :p[02:06:03] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:e08b:76e1:45:c1e6:1bae:629f> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[02:07:02] *** Donitzo <Donitzo!~Donitzo@85-156-203-108.elisa-laajakaista.fi> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:07:52] <defk0n> im wondering though, what happens if you have like a multithreaded renderer, instead of 1 cpu rendering all the objects. have multiple threads rasterize a object based on a certain scale then just paste all the objects together[02:08:18] <pulse> isn't the result the same though[02:09:06] <defk0n> yes, whats the rendering technique called that renders small squares[02:09:20] <defk0n> of the screen instead of big squares.[02:09:30] <pulse> rasterization? :D[02:09:47] <defk0n> no i mean, every square has a certain amount of pixels like 16x16[02:10:24] * pulse shrugs[02:11:43] <myke> this is a weird chat[02:12:27] <myke> gpus already work like that[02:12:56] *** aindilis <aindilis!~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:13:41] <NiniGeo2> It might be more efficient to have a GPU render out a 8, 16, or even 32-bit object ID in a very simple shader for each of your objects, and then have the CPU download the resulting buffer to determine which objects are occupying which pixels.[02:14:01] <NiniGeo2> The biggest fight you'd have to win there is that GPUs and CPUs like to work asynchronously from one another, so typically when people do this it's one frame late.[02:14:04] *** aindilis <aindilis!~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net> has joined #gamedev[02:14:53] <NiniGeo2> But it should be very efficient (modern GPU's likely wouldn't even sneeze at using such a simple shader, and you'd have expensive things like multisampling, alpha blending, lighting, etc. turned off for this pass anyway).[02:15:38] <NiniGeo2> Some games do stuff like this for runtime occlusion culling.[02:17:20] <pulse> how do you do something like a border around a renderd 3d object[02:17:23] <pulse> like a 2d border[02:17:34] <pulse> that's the situation i imagine defk0n has but i don't really know[02:18:19] <defk0n> yes something like border, i mean the applications are there, i just think its usefull to know where what exactly gets rendered either occlusion testing or something else.[02:18:25] <defk0n> billboarding for example[02:19:03] <pulse> i'm sure that's a solved problem :p[02:19:05] <pulse> since many games use that[02:19:11] <pulse> haven't really thought about it[02:19:52] <defk0n> like for instance, lets say you have a object at 1km distance, the distance between thats object vertices might be smaller then the pixels on the screen. so you could just billboard everything[02:20:49] <defk0n> 3d graphics is highly spatial temporal correlated. i dont get why we render everything from scratch every frame[02:21:03] <myke> you don't have to but it's a lot easier[02:21:11] <myke> if you don't you have to keep track of what you need to change[02:22:20] <NiniGeo2> When you say a "border around an object" do you mean like drawing a box around it? If that's the case, then what I've seen most people do is they take the AABB or the bounding sphere for the object, use the CPU to project that into screen-space (be careful here as bounding spheres turn into bounding ellipses via perspective projection) and get a 2D bounding box with which to draw around the[02:22:20] <NiniGeo2> object.[02:22:54] <myke> that seems like the sane way to do it[02:23:01] <NiniGeo2> If you mean like a n-pixel outline or inline around the object, then I think you'll need to use the GPU to do that efficiently for high-poly objects. In that case, there's a lot of existing stencil buffer outline techniques out there to look at.[02:23:55] <pulse> i meant outline yea[02:24:26] <notchris> pulse: https://notchris.net/audio/pulse/test1.mp3[02:24:53] <pulse> notchris, oh :D[02:25:04] <pulse> lol[02:25:08] <pulse> turned it into 90s disco[02:25:11] <pulse> not bad[02:25:18] <defk0n> but i do wonder, does a gpu already do that. for instance when the vertices of a object line might be smaller then the pixels. when rasterizing does it keep redrawing the same pixel?[02:25:43] <notchris> haha xD[02:25:47] <pulse> notchris, haha awesome[02:26:26] <defk0n> Tiled rendering is the word, it slipped my mind .[02:26:27] <defk0n> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiled_rendering[02:26:42] <NiniGeo2> defk0n there's rules for rasterization that exist to ensure that in the right circumstances, pixels only get rendered the right number of times: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/direct3d11/d3d10-graphics-programming-guide-rasterizer-stage-rules[02:28:00] <NiniGeo2> Basically the rules exist so that if you have two triangles in a quad that share vertices along one edge, the pixels along that edge get shaded exactly once. If this were not the case, then you'd have issues with alpha blending where shared edges would appear with the wrong translucency and whatnot, and it'd also jack up the overdraw and cost performance.[02:30:22] *** unreal <unreal!~unreal@unaffiliated/unreal> has joined #gamedev[02:30:42] <defk0n> what happens if you have a triangle inside a "pixel" does it get rendered only once? or for every vertex redrawing the pixel[02:32:12] <NiniGeo2> So according to those rasterization rules, if the pixel's centerpoint lies inside the small sub-pixel-area triangle, then that pixel will be shaded once as per the enclosing triangle (not once per triangle vertex).[02:32:58] <NiniGeo2> This holds true no matter how large or small the triangle is.[02:33:20] <NiniGeo2> Some stuff changes in the case of multisampled rendering, but it's still largely the same case.[02:35:38] <NiniGeo2> Since you're mentioning vertices, maybe you're interested in how point rendering works? The rules say that that's the same as if two axis-aligned triangles are rendered in a Z-pattern with a size of 1x1 square pixel centered around the point's location.[02:36:04] <NiniGeo2> (This is for normal points, not point sprites).[02:38:26] <defk0n> you just broke my brain[02:38:30] <NiniGeo2> Hehe[02:38:31] <NiniGeo2> Sorry[02:38:40] <NiniGeo2> Do you have any questions? I'd be glad to help answer them if I can :][02:41:34] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-188-103-185-246.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: refs)[02:45:26] <defk0n> i guess i found something similar[02:45:32] <defk0n> looking[02:45:33] <defk0n> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToAKdrcb_dU[02:48:33] <NiniGeo2> I kinda feel like in that particular scenario that I'm not sure if you actually need to do light-culling in that case as I'd expect that to be mostly fillrate-bound, unless they're trying to draw each light individually or something?[03:12:31] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[03:29:02] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)[03:30:30] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[03:37:19] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[03:40:17] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[03:40:53] *** BlueProtoman <BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@ool-4577fdaf.dyn.optonline.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[03:45:53] <pulse> https://clyp.it/4fb4ibs3[03:45:58] <pulse> notchris ^[03:46:34] <notchris> OOO thats a nice lead :D[03:46:40] <pulse> :x[03:46:57] <pulse> i'm not sure about the transition at 0:30[03:48:09] <pulse> ah, i need bells[03:48:13] <pulse> bells everywhere[03:48:23] <pulse> how can i have a magical game without bells, what am i thinking[03:48:47] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[03:53:09] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[04:06:18] <pulse> improved version https://clyp.it/msm2a5cs[04:09:57] *** code_zombie <code_zombie!~code_zomb@2605:a601:aa1:da00:54ea:441:b9d:50e1> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[04:22:30] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-75-187-139-141.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[04:23:10] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[04:27:59] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Quit: the cheetahmen ran off... and now ... the cheetahmen)[04:44:43] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[04:44:49] *** freefork_afk is now known as freestyledork[04:57:08] *** fidasx <fidasx!~fidasx@ppp-94-66-221-144.home.otenet.gr> has joined #gamedev[05:02:33] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has joined #gamedev[05:30:07] <R2robot> that's really good[05:35:25] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[05:48:20] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)[06:00:35] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:2096:b786:d03b:5cb1> has joined #gamedev[06:06:00] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[06:29:53] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has quit IRC (Quit: 0x80)[06:30:02] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[06:56:36] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #gamedev[06:56:42] *** mijowh <mijowh!~mike@24.102.203.175.res-cmts.t132.ptd.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[07:08:48] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[07:10:33] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:b5f7:fe57:412f:cdac> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[07:10:40] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has joined #gamedev[07:12:23] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)[07:17:37] *** Donitzo <Donitzo!~Donitzo@85-156-203-108.elisa-laajakaista.fi> has joined #gamedev[07:25:44] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:2096:b786:d03b:5cb1> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[07:28:00] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[07:28:32] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[07:40:27] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[07:45:36] *** fidasx <fidasx!~fidasx@ppp-94-66-221-144.home.otenet.gr> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[07:49:36] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.200.90.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has joined #gamedev[07:51:44] *** firippu <firippu!~firippu@unaffiliated/firippu> has joined #gamedev[07:55:42] <firippu> anybody know how in monogame on .net core 2.2 to prevent windows from scaling my game's window when the display scaling is 150%?[07:57:28] <firippu> game worked great on Monogame for the full framework, launchiong via debugger ended up with usable project. I was using DirectX then, then. Now I've converted to .net core and OpenGL and my game's window is larger than the screen can accomodate[08:10:44] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df0a2-207.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #gamedev[08:11:16] <DnzAtWrk> oi[08:12:21] <NiniGeo2> firippu: I think that there's a way for your program to tell Windows how to apply "high DPI" scaling.[08:17:16] <firippu> found this but what is described doesn't seem to do anything for me http://community.monogame.net/t/solved-display-resolution-on-windows-10/9273/5 maybe because I'm using .net core[08:17:46] <NiniGeo2> Hmmmm, I'm not sure. I've never used .Net Core.[08:18:03] <DnzAtWrk> monogame... monogame... Was that the XNA clone?[08:19:02] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p2003004CEA06CB0018E85623282C84BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[08:19:37] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p5B010A55.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[08:21:18] <firippu> yea[08:22:04] <DnzAtWrk> XNA was quite nice, with its spritebatch[08:22:27] <DnzAtWrk> low-level and C#, but not a pain in the ass like opengl[08:22:44] <DnzAtWrk> and c++[08:22:46] <DnzAtWrk> SDL[08:23:29] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p2003004CEA06CB0018E85623282C84BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[08:23:59] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA06DC0018E85623282C84BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[08:24:48] <DarkUranium> I personally think SpriteBatch made little to no sense.[08:25:10] <DarkUranium> Too low-level to easily use in a game or whatnot, too high-level to be of any use outside of its intended uses.[08:25:18] <DnzAtWrk> wasn't that low level[08:25:26] <DarkUranium> Okay, it can be relatively easily used, but not if you wanted to do it effectively.[08:27:04] <firippu> i'm using SadConsole which is essentially a really nice tile engine designed around but not limited to codepage 437 raster fonts[08:27:11] <firippu> here's how it draws http://sadconsole.com/articles/how-sadconsole-draws-to-the-screen.html[08:27:50] <DnzAtWrk> Still don't like var[08:27:56] <DnzAtWrk> so, GraphicsDevice.Viewport[08:28:01] <DnzAtWrk> is that like a rectangle?[08:28:04] <DnzAtWrk> who knows, it uses var[08:28:20] <DnzAtWrk> forced to use some kind of inspector tool to figure it out[08:29:56] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:4466:7600:3ab1:d4d4:9081:13c3> has joined #gamedev[08:30:55] <firippu> thats a microsoft.xna.framework.graphics.viewport in this case provided by monogame[08:31:28] <firippu> i think its a struct[08:32:08] <firippu> that's just internals though, i actually haven't needed to see or worry about that draw code since i started using Sadconsole[08:32:22] <DarkUranium> firippu, BTW, if you do it right, 20k sprite-draws are pretty cheap.[08:32:53] <firippu> just.. ugh... damn, opengl, .net core.. both second class citizens on the windows desktop to full framework and directX which i was using before ant it worked fine[08:33:34] <firippu> I don't want to make anything new in .net framework though[08:33:43] <firippu> that ship has sailed[08:33:44] <firippu> heh[08:34:16] <DarkUranium> But more to the point, you can avoid 200k draws even on "dirty" (as they say) targets.[08:35:02] <gogoprog> plop[08:46:06] <DnzAtWrk> any fun ideas how to use machine learning to expand 1k of code into something glorious?[08:47:19] <DnzAtWrk> something evolving and becoming more complex, but there are infinite possibilities[08:49:02] <DnzAtWrk> first thought, evolving plantlife[08:49:19] <DnzAtWrk> maybe made up from connected rectangles[08:51:17] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p5B0103EF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[08:51:47] <DnzAtWrk> how would you encode recursive growth into a chromosome[08:52:04] *** mijowh <mijowh!~mike@24.102.213.241.res-cmts.t132.ptd.net> has joined #gamedev[08:53:27] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p2003004CEA06DC0018E85623282C84BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[08:56:16] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p5B01020F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[08:58:52] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p5B0103EF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[09:14:33] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[09:33:09] *** wPSvils <wPSvils!~PDevelope@193.238.213.7> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[09:35:43] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p5B01020F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[09:35:50] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p2003004CEA07EB000C2FE7F36417AA30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[09:38:40] *** wPSvils <wPSvils!~PDevelope@193.238.213.7> has joined #gamedev[09:40:19] <brainzap> good morning operator[09:41:58] <gogoprog> hello operator[09:43:05] *** wPSvils <wPSvils!~PDevelope@193.238.213.7> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[09:43:58] *** wPSvils <wPSvils!~PDevelope@193.238.213.7> has joined #gamedev[09:51:33] <DnzAtWrk> how do you implement boomerang physics in 2d[09:51:52] <DnzAtWrk> so the projectile always returns to the thrower[09:52:35] <brainzap> bro I thought you can do maths[09:52:35] <DnzAtWrk> accelerating towards the thrower makes it easy for it to miss[09:52:58] <gogoprog> yeah just do maths[09:53:17] <gogoprog> just do a Jump on the X-axis[09:53:23] <gogoprog> and play with some sinus en the Y-axis[09:53:27] <gogoprog> if it is a 2d game[09:53:34] <DnzAtWrk> top-down[09:54:03] <gogoprog> do the same but plus a rotation ;)[09:54:27] <DnzAtWrk> except the player can move around[09:54:35] <DnzAtWrk> which makes it not really work[09:54:52] <DnzAtWrk> it would move with the player[09:55:14] <gogoprog> do you want it to always reach the player? it is a magic boomerang then[09:55:19] <DnzAtWrk> yes[09:55:28] <brainzap> when the boomerang moves into direction of player, modify boomerang direction to hit player[09:55:46] <brainzap> and then cheat with a big hitbox on the player[09:56:11] <DnzAtWrk> what if the player runs to the side before it returns[09:56:21] <brainzap> he needs to buy a new one[09:56:41] <gogoprog> lol[09:56:53] <brainzap> what if the boomerang is smart and does pathing to the player on the way back[09:57:38] <brainzap> or the boomerang could go over the unpassable sprites, like walls. - or it could be a teleporting boomerang[09:57:43] <DnzAtWrk> no walls[09:57:47] <DnzAtWrk> or anything like that[09:59:26] <gogoprog> then what could be the problem?[09:59:34] *** wPSvils <wPSvils!~PDevelope@193.238.213.7> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[10:00:16] *** wPSvils <wPSvils!~PDevelope@193.238.213.7> has joined #gamedev[10:01:26] <DnzAtWrk> maybe I should have it both accelerate towards the player, and rotate the velocity vector towards it when heading towards the player[10:02:23] <DnzAtWrk> alternatively, have it accelerate towards the original cast position until it reaches the furthtest distance, and then start moving towards the player[10:03:00] <gogoprog> might be smoother to directly reach the player[10:03:42] <DnzAtWrk> I want it to somewhat curve towards the player from the furthest cast distance[10:03:44] <DnzAtWrk> curve but always hit[10:08:13] <DnzAtWrk> rotate the velocity vector with an angle determined by the distance from the player[10:08:24] <DnzAtWrk> the closer it gets the faster it turns[10:10:21] <brainzap> did not zelda perfect this[10:10:26] <brainzap> just steal[10:13:24] <gogoprog> or this one : https://sfabian.itch.io/mr-monkey[10:13:30] <gogoprog> it does what you describe[10:14:32] <DnzAtWrk> looks like it reduces the distance between the banana and the monkey[10:15:10] <DnzAtWrk> meh, it works I guess[10:29:42] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[10:45:31] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #gamedev[10:57:12] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[10:59:09] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[11:01:40] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[11:03:54] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[11:05:40] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has joined #gamedev[11:08:20] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:18:57] *** togo <togo!~togo@2a01:5c0:e08b:76e1:45:c1e6:1bae:629f> has joined #gamedev[11:35:13] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[11:39:29] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[11:39:43] <brainzap> comrads, GODOT has been released, our time has come[11:41:13] *** bobby <bobby!~Bob@76.202.115.164> has joined #gamedev[12:10:20] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[12:29:04] <togo> Nasim Haramain points to the insight - our fractal folds back over one single proton aka black hole - all other perceived physical and spiritual compound fold out of the dimensionality of the standing lightwave hologram that surounds this entity - unreachable center of total silence![12:32:15] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df0a2-207.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[12:40:16] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[12:40:46] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[12:42:01] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[12:45:04] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[12:48:13] *** aly777 <aly777!~kes777@50-242-177-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #gamedev[12:55:39] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df0a2-207.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #gamedev[12:58:05] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[13:03:09] <wPSvils> ye, checking out the new Godot as well[13:03:11] <wPSvils> at least, will[13:06:00] <DnzAtWrk> drinking the kool aid[13:10:03] <brainzap> more like lukewarm piss[13:10:05] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has joined #gamedev[13:13:03] <wPSvils> last time I didn't stick around Godot for long.[13:13:22] <wPSvils> when it comes to their built-in lighting engine, it's extremely slow, and not sure how to extend it at the lower levels.[13:13:32] <wPSvils> then again, lighting isn't super necessary to do stuff[13:13:39] <wPSvils> (for game prototypes)[13:13:40] <DnzAtWrk> just do it yourself[13:13:52] <DnzAtWrk> does it at least use deferred rendering?[13:14:53] <wPSvils> no idea[13:15:02] <wPSvils> in this case this was the 2d lighting system, haven't used it for 3d at all.[13:15:02] <brainzap> lets join force wPSvils[13:15:20] <wPSvils> join forces on what? game projects or godot exploration?[13:15:23] <DnzAtWrk> well, lighting obviously scales terribly with forward rendering[13:15:28] <DnzAtWrk> dependong in the number of lights[13:15:36] <DnzAtWrk> depending dong*[13:15:46] <brainzap> join force against the pressure to ship a game[13:15:55] <wPSvils> yes, that's a good cause. I'm in.[13:16:37] <wPSvils> DnzAtWrk: not sure how to classify the rendering types in 2d, what counts as deferred or not. or rather, the obvious solutions in 2d are usually deferred.[13:16:38] <brainzap> I have two things to build, but lets hear your story first[13:16:50] <wPSvils> top down shooter with rogue-like elements.[13:17:02] <mijowh> good morning o/[13:17:03] <wPSvils> at first just zombies for simple AI, eventually tactical NPCs hopefully[13:17:18] <DnzAtWrk> meh, 2d lighting is usually just faked 3d lighting[13:17:25] <DnzAtWrk> well, real 3d lighting in 2d[13:17:44] <wPSvils> mmm ... not sure about that[13:18:25] <DnzAtWrk> fuck, now I want to make dithered lighting with 2d pixelated graphics[13:18:30] <DnzAtWrk> keep focused[13:18:53] <wPSvils> brainzap: what are you working on?[13:19:10] <mijowh> his sixth beer for the morning[13:19:21] <brainzap> atm on my company and my next job[13:19:35] <brainzap> but with Godot its time for something new[13:28:05] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:84f5:404f:c8d8:8c5a> has joined #gamedev[13:32:20] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #gamedev[13:33:46] <wPSvils> noish[13:34:49] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[13:40:14] *** toothlessg <toothlessg!~toothless@rrcs-24-103-153-67.nys.biz.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[13:49:17] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[13:51:42] <pulse> stop. gamedev time[13:51:42] <brainzap2> hey pulse, time to rewrite in GODOT[13:51:43] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[13:51:56] <pulse> o hell no[13:52:23] <pulse> only the purest of C++ can satisfy me[13:53:52] <DnzAtWrk> only pointers 5 levels deep satisfies your sick mind?[13:54:29] <brainzap2> The >8=3 operator in this obscure paper on ouroboromorphic sapphotriplets could save me 10 lines of code[13:56:40] <wPSvils> brainzap2: was just reading that article[13:57:00] <wPSvils> I prefer C++ too[13:57:26] <brainzap2> bias[13:57:44] <pulse> i don't prefer C++[13:57:47] <pulse> C++ prefers me[13:57:47] <wPSvils> what bias?[13:57:54] <DnzAtWrk> wrong-bias[13:58:15] <wPSvils> ah, ye. people have a weird bias against C++, but usually they don't know what they're talking about, true.[13:59:09] <DnzAtWrk> same thing with fortran really[14:00:27] <pulse> best language is the one i use[14:00:32] <pulse> second best is the one i used earlier[14:01:00] <brainzap2> enough with the jokes[14:01:10] <DnzAtWrk> best language will stay C# until another language replicates everything about it[14:01:14] <brainzap2> what are we building pulse?[14:01:24] <pulse> a wall[14:01:36] <pulse> big wall, many bricks[14:02:17] <pulse> brainzap2, working on fixing this https://clyp.it/msm2a5cs[14:02:27] <pulse> it's a candidate for the theme music for my gaem[14:02:31] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined #gamedev[14:02:35] <pulse> many sweats were sweated in the making of[14:02:51] <pulse> needs a bit rearrangement and possibly mastering[14:03:49] <DnzAtWrk> there are some really high pitched noises[14:03:59] <pulse> in the intro?[14:04:04] <DnzAtWrk> yes[14:04:09] <pulse> true[14:04:30] <pulse> it's not done yet, i'll probably change a lot of it[14:05:23] <DnzAtWrk> imo the tone that builds up goes one octave too high[14:05:26] <DnzAtWrk> or whatever[14:05:58] <DnzAtWrk> maybe it's just my absolutely terrible sense of anything music[14:06:27] <pulse> i disagree that it's pitch that's bothersome[14:06:32] <pulse> it's the vagueness of the whistle-like sample[14:06:43] <pulse> the pitch is quite low actually[14:06:47] <pulse> the sound is a bit annoying though[14:06:54] <pulse> i'll probably replace it[14:07:17] <pulse> at the end of the day i just want something that sounds like music[14:07:22] <DnzAtWrk> what kind of game[14:07:27] <pulse> i don't want to spend a ton of time with this or i'll spiral into oblivion[14:07:32] <pulse> DnzAtWrk, 2d platformer[14:07:41] <pulse> somewhat inspired by hocus pocus[14:07:41] <DnzAtWrk> what I imagine listening to this tune is a large underground cavern of some kind[14:07:45] <DnzAtWrk> maybe with crystals on the walls[14:07:45] <pulse> good[14:07:46] <pulse> :D[14:07:49] <pulse> even better[14:08:12] <DnzAtWrk> the echo kinda sells it[14:08:13] <pulse> it's funny how powerful music is in games[14:08:31] <pulse> just when i put this music in the menu, bam suddenly it feels like a game[14:08:38] <pulse> whereas before it felt like some kind of slideshow[14:08:53] <DnzAtWrk> would be cool if you could fade in between the trumpety section and the first section[14:08:55] <DnzAtWrk> based on location[14:09:04] <pulse> ah[14:09:08] <pulse> like monkey island 2 thing?[14:09:13] <DnzAtWrk> yeah[14:09:18] <pulse> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMUSE[14:09:21] <DnzAtWrk> like in a shop it would be the trumpets[14:09:21] <pulse> this was so brilliant[14:09:32] <pulse> yeah i was watching an interview the other day with one of these guys[14:09:37] <pulse> or reading even[14:09:53] <DnzAtWrk> I remember that, so well done[14:09:54] <pulse> and i remember reading that they had like a few programmers working around the clock to make that happen[14:09:55] <pulse> for months[14:10:19] <pulse> not that trivial it turns out[14:10:32] <pulse> effect was brilliant though[14:10:46] <DnzAtWrk> I absolutely adore it when games use a variation of the level music for a boss section with added intensity[14:11:03] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@67.218.88.131> has joined #gamedev[14:11:19] <DnzAtWrk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYX5xix5P5M&index=7&list=PLfIlC0sT8dexv0HnKFuV-WMWmfXBZ5mh3[14:11:21] <DnzAtWrk> example[14:11:34] <pulse> cool article on it https://www.gametripper.co.uk/games/music/woodtick-monkey-island-2/[14:11:53] <pulse> yeah that's all next level stuff[14:11:54] <pulse> maybe some day :p[14:12:02] <notchris> good morning[14:12:07] <pulse> right now i'm happy with a 1-minute loop as long as it doesn't sound crap[14:12:10] <pulse> notchris, ahoy-hoy[14:12:12] <notchris> did a bunch of research last night[14:12:13] <gogoprog> nice ad[14:12:32] <notchris> was trying to find a modern engine that supports JS like syntax[14:12:46] <notchris> I think the only thing I found..and still not sure about is...CRYengine?[14:12:54] <notchris> sup pulse :)[14:12:56] <DarkUranium> I highly doubt that one uses JS.[14:13:02] <DarkUranium> Many have JS-inspired scripting langs.[14:13:11] <gogoprog> go for haxe ;)[14:13:11] <DarkUranium> If you want *the* JavaScript, that'll be tougher.[14:13:17] <pulse> notchris, what kind of engine for what kind of game for what kind of platform[14:13:29] <DnzAtWrk> just have each entity run its own javascript engine[14:13:36] <notchris> haha[14:13:51] <notchris> well i saw someone use a bundler to run threejs with like electron etc[14:13:53] <pulse> thinking out of the box[14:13:56] <notchris> but its still using Chromium[14:14:09] <DarkUranium> notchris, 2D or 3D?[14:14:12] <notchris> 3D[14:14:21] <DarkUranium> I don't think you'll find anything then, to be honest.[14:14:28] <DarkUranium> Your best bet is to find a C++ engine and bind JS to it.[14:14:35] <DarkUranium> Or maybe something that uses Lua and port the bindings to JS.[14:14:49] <notchris> Hmmm[14:15:09] <DarkUranium> I actually have a similar requirement, though I won't use JS.[14:15:18] <notchris> Really?[14:15:23] <notchris> What are you using[14:15:29] <DarkUranium> Dunno yet, probably Squirrel.[14:15:36] <DarkUranium> It needs to run on the web too, though (at least in my case)[14:15:38] <DarkUranium> But not exclusively.[14:15:50] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, do *you* maybe know if Haxe has a way to ensure there's no direct access to JS API stuff?[14:16:07] <DarkUranium> I have a need that Haxe would probably do well for, but I want it to be sandboxed.[14:16:08] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has joined #gamedev[14:16:35] <gogoprog> DarkUranium: no the language is hackable by definition so any guard would be easily overridden[14:16:40] <notchris> Whats Haxe doing?[14:16:51] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, even if I control the compiler?[14:17:03] <DarkUranium> notchris, it's a language designed to compile *to* other languages.[14:17:08] <gogoprog> a static-typing language that transpiles to other languages (C++, js ,etc)[14:17:18] <notchris> Ahh[14:17:32] <gogoprog> DarkUranium: in that case you will probably have more control, but I never saw that use case[14:17:51] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, I basically want to use Haxe as a (albeit AoT-compiled) scripting lang.[14:17:58] <DarkUranium> Sandboxing being imperative here.[14:18:08] <gogoprog> I understand[14:18:56] <gogoprog> I dont know the answer but that interests me[14:19:57] <notchris> Whats the downside of access to hs api stuff?[14:20:02] <notchris> js*[14:20:12] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, I would also need a haxe compiler on the web, just for development. The idea is to use the web one while developing (I don't care if they hack that one), then offline for deployment.[14:20:13] <gogoprog> well sometimes you want to sandbox[14:20:16] <gogoprog> to avoid crazy hacks[14:20:46] <DarkUranium> notchris, for example, if I have user plugins writing stuff in (effectively, with API access) raw JS, I can't prevent them from doing AJAX requests[14:20:54] <notchris> true[14:20:57] <DarkUranium> Or even injecting custom HTML (which can then do requests)[14:21:00] <DarkUranium> Which opens potentials for abuse.[14:21:45] <gogoprog> DarkUranium: what do you mean, a haxe compiler on the web?[14:21:54] <pulse> HTML is an alcoholic, abuse is inevitable[14:22:06] <pulse> </badjoke>[14:22:10] <pulse> i'll let myself out[14:22:40] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, I need *something* that I can use for user plugins.[14:22:56] <gogoprog> DarkUranium: in your case what I would do[14:23:06] <DarkUranium> iframe+webworkers are a good start, but I also *need* to abstract away browser differences[14:23:13] <DarkUranium> Prevent a browser update from ruining half the plugins[14:23:20] <gogoprog> is to support JavaScript thru Duktape, so you can sandbox it, and then provide haxe externs so your users can write in Haxe[14:23:26] <DarkUranium> Duktape is much too slow.[14:23:35] <DarkUranium> I've identified 3 options, basically. 3.5.[14:24:15] <DarkUranium> 1) Use Javascript, but with a custom parser that then transpiles it ... to Javascript. From a technical PoV, this is a JITting meta-circular evaluator.[14:24:33] <DarkUranium> 2a) Use some language that compiles ahead-of-time to webassembly and/or asm.js, and expose just the necessary API.[14:24:35] <notchris> DarkUranium: what about nwjs[14:24:43] <notchris> http://docs.nwjs.io/en/latest/For%20Users/Advanced/Protect%20JavaScript%20Source%20Code/[14:24:53] <DarkUranium> 2b) Same as 2a, but source of transpilation is bytecode. E.g. Lua bytecode, Squirrel bytecode, or such.[14:25:23] <DarkUranium> 3) Same as 2b, but use an interpreter directly. I.e. compile Squirrel to the web via emscripten, use that directly.[14:26:12] <DarkUranium> notchris, that's not the same, the page you've linked.[14:26:20] <DarkUranium> (plus the site *advertises* having full browser support)[14:26:33] <DarkUranium> notchris, the page you've linked is about *obfuscation*[14:26:47] <DarkUranium> What I'm looking at is not "protect JS code", but "protect *FROM* JS code"[14:27:02] <DarkUranium> (accidentally or intentionally abusive code)[14:27:30] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, note that if I use Duktape, there's no need for Haxe anyhow.[14:27:39] <DarkUranium> (or Lua or Squirrel or DarkUraniumScript)[14:27:53] <gogoprog> DarkUranium: yes but you can add Haxe on top of you solution, so your users have static typing[14:28:13] <DarkUranium> True. But then, I have option #4 :)[14:28:20] <notchris> i wonder if you could set Content-Security-Policy: default-src 'self';[14:28:29] <DarkUranium> (I've been working on my own statically-typed scripting lang, which is a perfect fit)[14:28:32] <notchris> to prevent any code from being added from a non cors-allowed source[14:28:39] <DarkUranium> (buuut that means a self-dependency, so less time for this proj)[14:28:51] <DarkUranium> notchris, doesn't help; there's still plenty of abuse they can do.[14:28:56] <notchris> like[14:29:04] <notchris> if you control the code before its added[14:29:09] <DarkUranium> Well, it's a live thing, so a script could do a for(...) delete();[14:29:10] <notchris> you could replace anything potentially harmful[14:29:16] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.200.90.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))[14:29:22] <notchris> and strip out anything malicious[14:29:29] <DarkUranium> If I controlled the code, I wouldn't need any of this.[14:29:38] <gogoprog> DarkUranium: so about your solution 1), have you checked https://github.com/google/caja[14:30:03] *** RazielZ <RazielZ!~Raziel@unaffiliated/raziel> has joined #gamedev[14:30:08] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, I strongly distrust Google's code, but yeah, same idea.[14:30:35] <DarkUranium> I could technically combine Haxe+Caja or such.[14:30:43] <DarkUranium> (Haxe->JS->Caja+JS)[14:30:59] <gogoprog> yes[14:32:32] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, there are some modifications I'd like to do, though. E.g. I'd like to run these things in webworkers.[14:32:46] <DarkUranium> Buuuut I'd still like to simulate a blocking API in places. That's perfectly doable ... just not in JS.[14:35:25] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, another reason why I kind of liked the idea of avoiding JS entirely was for my non-web builds, though[14:35:37] <DarkUranium> Android, and eventually desktop. I don't want to do Electron (or equivalent)[14:35:43] <gogoprog> I get that[14:35:52] <gogoprog> I have a engine project[14:36:04] <gogoprog> in which we compile to JS for HTML5 builds[14:36:07] <DarkUranium> Duktape might be fast enough there (due to the lower overhead of everything else)[14:36:10] <gogoprog> (from haxe)[14:36:19] <gogoprog> and to JS for duktape for native dev builds[14:36:25] <gogoprog> and to C++ for native retail builds[14:36:37] <DarkUranium> Interesting.[14:36:41] <gogoprog> in our case duktape is fast enough[14:36:44] <gogoprog> only gameplay code[14:36:49] <DarkUranium> Ah, not whole engine.[14:37:24] <gogoprog> yes the engine is in c++, and only the user part (gameplay/ui) is exposed to Haxe[14:37:54] <gogoprog> of course it uses emscripten to run in web browsers[14:38:10] <DarkUranium> In your case though, you don't have to not trust the JS.[14:38:14] <DarkUranium> Does make it easier.[14:39:29] <gogoprog> yes that's the main difference with your project[14:41:08] <brainzap2> what the hell are you building DarkUranium[14:41:46] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has joined #gamedev[14:41:51] <DarkUranium> brainzap2, a house http://bonkersworld.net/img/2011.11.15_building_software.png[14:42:00] <warweasle> I did gamedev last night.[14:42:02] <DarkUranium> brainzap2, tl;dr: it's a webapp with user plugins.[14:42:10] <DarkUranium> but also not a webapp, but android programs[14:42:13] <DarkUranium> with same plugins[14:42:17] <DarkUranium> no, not same idea; *same plugins*[14:43:09] <brainzap2> bro, what does the user do[14:43:17] <brainzap2> "it displays clickable ads"[14:43:43] <DarkUranium> lol[14:44:02] <DarkUranium> brainzap2, map editing, procedural generation, that sort of stuff.[14:44:09] <DarkUranium> Well, those are the plugins; the user plays a game.[14:44:16] <brainzap2> actually caja looks like ad technology[14:44:23] <DarkUranium> Sure, but same idea.[14:44:28] <DarkUranium> Or rather, same security issues.[14:45:00] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, at least we can both agree that it's ... unique :P[14:45:03] <DarkUranium> technical challenge-wise[14:45:21] <gogoprog> hehe yes[14:45:37] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, all the 4 options outline above are good, I think. Though 2b can be done *after* 3 in a transparent fashion.[14:45:43] <gogoprog> I have to get the kids, brb[14:45:45] <DarkUranium> So main 3 are really 1, 2a, and 3.[14:45:49] <DarkUranium> sure[14:49:53] <brainzap2> https://shiro.ch/6l1uhcs69lw01.jpg[14:50:57] <warweasle> brainzap2: Dude, so yes.[14:51:06] <brainzap2> DarkUranium: actually you didnt answer what the game is[14:51:36] <DarkUranium> brainzap2, it's a virtual tabletop, for role-playing games.[14:51:38] <DarkUranium> Sort of like roll20.[14:51:39] <warweasle> Well, it's hard to define what constitutes a game. What makes it different from a toy or an activity...[14:52:04] <brainzap2> oh nice[14:52:25] <DarkUranium> brainzap2, that makes it more like one of those collaborative drawing programs where you can drag in clip art and such (from a technical standpoint)[14:52:28] <DarkUranium> ... but with plugins.[14:52:44] <DarkUranium> I want the DM to be able to e.g. generate a dungeon, or edit terrain, stuff like that.[14:52:56] <DarkUranium> Think of it as a project-specific app store, heh.[14:53:51] <DarkUranium> Since I want an Android version, that means no web stuff. This is gonna be graphics-heavy, so I'd like to avoid browser-based solution for Android & desktop (WebGL loses a 45-50% of perf immediately)[14:53:52] <brainzap2> can you require somewhat latest chrome version of the users?[14:53:56] <DarkUranium> Since user plugins are user code, I need sandboxing.[14:54:01] <DarkUranium> Sure, why?[14:54:13] <brainzap2> because it has so many features[14:54:18] <DarkUranium> I intend to support Chrome & Firefox. Maybe Safari (because they've little choice)[14:54:23] <DarkUranium> idgaf about IE/Edge.[14:54:47] <brainzap2> you dont need sandboxing if it is already a safe space. AKA if a party of friends plays, and apps are from a library[14:54:52] <DarkUranium> And just desktop versions of them (at least for now)[14:55:10] <DarkUranium> The library is a community thing (I'll "seed" it with a few official plugins, ofc)[14:55:21] <brainzap2> just saying, mabye the MVP does not need sandboxing[14:55:22] <DarkUranium> So generally speaking, untrusted.[14:55:26] <DarkUranium> MVP, no.[14:55:44] <DarkUranium> But it is something I'd prefer to start considering early, because I'd like to use the same thing even for official plugins[14:55:50] <DarkUranium> (as sort of a sanity check for the API)[14:55:59] <brainzap2> so can I make a monster that spins and when someone with strength lower than 20 approaches he gets kicked back 2 tiles?[14:56:42] <DarkUranium> Not quite what I had in mind (it'll be more freeform in terms of actual gameplay), though in principle you could.[14:56:52] <DarkUranium> I mostly had DM tools in mind,.[14:57:23] <DarkUranium> I have a prototype online.[14:57:28] <DarkUranium> It's very simple, though, not really usable.[14:57:39] <DarkUranium> (for starters, it doesn't have the concept of "sessions", so there's no separation between campaigns)[14:57:41] <brainzap2> you know how they say: don't make the war, be the one guy that brings the weapons[14:57:46] <DarkUranium> lol[14:58:06] <DarkUranium> brainzap2, the main thing I want to accomplish is to make the DMs' lives easier.[14:58:22] <DarkUranium> In TRPGs, you get the DMs, you get the players, anyhow :P[14:59:56] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@67.218.88.131> has left #gamedev[15:00:03] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@67.218.88.131> has joined #gamedev[15:03:22] <DnzAtWrk> if any game could use DMs it's skyrim + multiplayer[15:03:27] <DnzAtWrk> that I'd pay for[15:04:39] <DnzAtWrk> vampire the masquerade had some type of DM mode I guess[15:05:08] <DarkUranium> Arma 3 has it; it's quite fun.[15:05:11] <DarkUranium> (that game calls it "Zeus")[15:05:37] <DnzAtWrk> LoL. And so our witless heroes encountered a band of roaming russians[15:05:50] <DnzAtWrk> "Cyka! The leader said" and opened fire[15:07:28] <DnzAtWrk> Neverwinter nights 1 had about the best custom campaigns as you could hope for[15:07:47] <DnzAtWrk> and even semi-MMORPG servers[15:08:00] <brainzap2> dont you guys have fantasy??[15:08:36] <DnzAtWrk> over here we have a condom brand named fantasy[15:08:56] <warweasle> DnzAtWrk: Which version of Vampire had a DM mode? It's not bloodlines.[15:09:02] <DnzAtWrk> no, the first game[15:09:13] <DnzAtWrk> literally called vampire the masquerade[15:10:41] <brainzap2> I want this but for scifi battles[15:11:08] <brainzap2> so the battle is like a staged big quizz, you have to move the battle cruiser etc. like the big test in enders game[15:11:33] <DnzAtWrk> Bet you enjoyed homeworld[15:12:33] <DarkUranium> brainzap2, what's "this"?[15:14:29] <warweasle> I'll make my own vampire game. With blackjack. And Hookers.[15:14:45] <DnzAtWrk> vampire hookers is such a cliche[15:15:20] <warweasle> That's why I have the blackjack.[15:15:54] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has joined #gamedev[15:17:26] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[15:17:45] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[15:21:46] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[15:23:38] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[15:29:08] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[15:29:30] <brainzap2> I hate boardgames[15:29:55] <DarkUranium> brainzap2, oh, you mean an online thingie for scifi battles?[15:30:08] <DarkUranium> If it can be freeform (where the players enforce the rules), sure, it's usable for that :)[15:30:17] <brainzap2> yes exactly! an online scifi battle thingy[15:32:26] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[15:34:48] <DarkUranium> brainzap2, I've been wanting to make some sort of an online scifi MMO, but very ... primitive.[15:34:53] <DarkUranium> Well, less MMO, more MUD.[15:42:39] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@67.218.88.131> has quit IRC (Quit: notchris)[15:49:41] <R2robot> i love that there are still MUDs[15:49:49] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has joined #gamedev[15:55:35] <DarkUranium> R2robot, I have a visual prototype somewhere (not on this PC), it's basically adarkroom-like game.[15:55:40] <DarkUranium> No graphics, just buttons & text.[15:56:03] <R2robot> cool[15:56:13] <DarkUranium> But space exploration. I have a shit-ton of data about nearby starts for it (I wanted real star names & locations because I figured it'd be cool)[15:56:35] <DarkUranium> Problem is, I can't figure out what the actual gameplay would be. I have a ton of ideas (e.g. trading, non-visual combat), but no concrete ones.[15:57:17] <R2robot> I used to run door games on my BBS. Trade Wars was a big one[15:57:23] <R2robot> sci-fi space trading game[15:59:49] <R2robot> http://www.tradewars.com/default.html wow[15:59:54] <R2robot> still around lol[16:00:16] <brainzap2> the thing with grind games is the nerds with time always win[16:02:18] <R2robot> WoW for example. You can't really login and 'play' for 30 minutes a day.. can't even get to where you need to be in 30 minutes. lol[16:03:02] <DarkUranium> R2robot,that's kind of the problem, I want to avoid the grind.[16:03:22] <DarkUranium> (some of it, i.e. progression, sure)[16:03:27] <DarkUranium> BTW, ESO is much better in this aspect.[16:03:46] <DarkUranium> It's still a MMO and all that, but there's no constantly-increasing item levels where you have to be constantly playing to keep up with the meta.[16:04:08] <DarkUranium> If you have the best item in the game, a patch might change that, but it'll forever remain *great*[16:04:20] <DarkUranium> (just maybe not absolute-best-in-the-meta)[16:04:32] <DarkUranium> (because balancing, not because of intentional deprecation, unlike WoW)[16:04:45] <DarkUranium> Indeed, it might again become best at some point.[16:05:04] <DarkUranium> R2robot, it's tricky doing multiplayer with no grind, though.[16:05:13] <DarkUranium> Maybe if you could only meet players, no PvP? (just PvE)[16:05:13] <pulse> https://github.com/Maccimo/BrainfuckDecompiler[16:07:55] <WarauSalesman> brainzap2, why you hate boardgames? sob sob sob :([16:08:23] <WarauSalesman> I have a lot of fun playing 7 Wonders with my friends[16:08:56] <Cahaan> 7 wonders? ewww[16:08:57] <WarauSalesman> Terra Mystica is another amazing gem[16:09:06] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[16:09:07] <Cahaan> :p[16:09:14] <Cahaan> I love boardgames but I prefer immersive ones[16:09:23] <Cahaan> or 4x games[16:09:28] <WarauSalesman> Cahaan, if you do not like 7 Wonders, then you like to fuck sheep[16:09:32] <WarauSalesman> :D[16:09:46] <Cahaan> I assume my sexuality[16:09:48] <WarauSalesman> what is 4x games?[16:10:05] <Cahaan> if you don't know what 4x games are then you like to fuck dead lambs[16:10:13] <WarauSalesman> I hope they are clean[16:10:19] <Cahaan> lol[16:10:29] <WarauSalesman> let's google for 4x games[16:10:29] <Cahaan> well a 4x game is a CIV like basically[16:10:34] <Cahaan> with those elements:[16:10:42] <WarauSalesman> 4X is a genre of strategy-based video and board games in which players control an empire and "explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate"[16:10:45] <Cahaan> exploration, expansion, exploitation and extermination[16:10:51] <WarauSalesman> ARGH master of orion[16:11:09] <Cahaan> another video game example would be heroes of the might & magic[16:11:15] <WarauSalesman> but ok, I was talking about physical board games[16:11:34] <Cahaan> there are awesome 4x physical board games[16:11:42] <Cahaan> my favourite one is Heroes of Land, Air & Sea[16:11:48] <Cahaan> Twilight Imperium is a popular one[16:12:01] <Cahaan> Space Empires 4x is also considered as a good one[16:12:09] <Cahaan> currently there is one that looks promising on kickstarter[16:12:32] <Cahaan> "Hyperspace"[16:12:41] <Cahaan> you also have Runewars from ffg[16:12:46] <Cahaan> which is a 4x game[16:14:18] *** codewaffle <codewaffle!~codewaffl@otto.codewaffle.com> has quit IRC (Quit: bye)[16:15:28] <brainzap2> WarauSalesman: because I have no friends to play with[16:15:37] *** D3ADL0CK <D3ADL0CK!~D3ADL0CK@162.243.62.166> has joined #gamedev[16:16:47] <sebbu> brainzap2, that's what games IA are for[16:20:05] <WarauSalesman> electronic boardgames suck[16:20:11] <WarauSalesman> very few ones are actually good[16:20:29] <WarauSalesman> and I agree. 4x fits better in a computer[16:20:39] <WarauSalesman> physical 4x games take an awful lot of time to set up[16:21:17] *** codewaffle <codewaffle!~codewaffl@otto.codewaffle.com> has joined #gamedev[16:24:33] <R2robot> https://roll20.net/ is for those of us without IRL friends[16:24:59] <DarkUranium> Cahaan, three games I'd really like to play are War of the Ring, Gloomhaven, and Twilight Imperium.[16:25:03] <DarkUranium> R2robot, that's what I've been working on :)[16:25:05] <DarkUranium> Something better than that.[16:25:12] <R2robot> :D[16:25:31] <DarkUranium> It's why I'm looking for a dev. Probably webdev.[16:25:55] <DarkUranium> Part-time. (no joke!)[16:26:16] <R2robot> where's that Turkish kid from yesterday? :D[16:26:39] <DarkUranium> bomb?[16:26:55] <R2robot> nah, some new kid that came in asking about gamedev/webdev[16:27:11] <DarkUranium> Well, if he's any good, that might be nice.[16:27:42] <WarauSalesman> DarkUranium, my "final college project" (*) was a boardgames server (*) = dunno how to say "trabalho de conclusao de curso"[16:27:58] <DarkUranium> I dunno how to say that either, so we'll call it a draw.[16:27:59] <WarauSalesman> I implement 8 board/card games there[16:28:03] <DarkUranium> Nice.[16:28:24] <WarauSalesman> I deliberately made it that way to prove I could implement any turn based game in my architecture[16:28:25] <DarkUranium> Here, it's a bit more generic. The system itself only enforces a very few rules.[16:28:33] <DarkUranium> (mostly having to do with item ownership & DM authority)[16:28:53] <WarauSalesman> the games were: Dominoes, General (brazilian Yahtzee version), Ataxx, Memory, Poker, Truco, Chess and Backgammon[16:28:53] <DarkUranium> You need to make a game that works with Captain Sonar :D[16:29:25] <WarauSalesman> server side = just add another "game class" client side = just download another DLL into the client directory[16:29:36] <DarkUranium> Ah.[16:29:39] <DarkUranium> This is slightly different.[16:29:50] <WarauSalesman> that was done in 2000[16:29:54] <DarkUranium> No game classes, because the nature of TRPGs is that it's very unstructured.[16:30:03] <DarkUranium> FWIW: I mentioned Captain Sonar because it's a real-time game.[16:30:13] <DarkUranium> It's a real-time 4v4 PvP game.[16:30:27] <DarkUranium> But it's also a tabletop game.[16:32:05] <brainzap2> can it be made into a game???[16:33:25] <Cahaan> DarkUranium, I bought GloomHaven but after reading 50% of the rules I sold it back[16:33:36] <Cahaan> I have Twilight Imperium but never had the chance to play it yet[16:33:38] <DarkUranium> =\[16:33:40] <DarkUranium> brainzap2, it *is* a game.[16:33:41] <Cahaan> it's too long[16:33:55] <Cahaan> War of the Ring seems to be awesome[16:34:00] <brainzap2> I ordered this baby https://the7thcontinent.seriouspoulp.com/en/the_game/presentation[16:34:29] <Cahaan> for a good RPG fix, I prefer Folklore: The affliction[16:34:34] <DarkUranium> Merchants and Marauders was also fun.[16:34:37] <Cahaan> it's litterally a roleplaying game without a DM[16:34:39] <DarkUranium> haha[16:34:42] <DarkUranium> not quite[16:34:44] <DarkUranium> more like a wargame, really.[16:35:00] <DarkUranium> If you want a RPG without a DM, there's Betrayal and Eldritch Horror. Both are more of RPGs than WotR[16:35:04] <DarkUranium> (but not RPGs[16:35:05] <DarkUranium> )[16:35:06] <Cahaan> I'm talking about Folklore[16:35:14] <DarkUranium> oh.[16:35:37] <Cahaan> Tainted Grail will probably be awesome too[16:35:41] <DarkUranium> Cahaan, wouldn't Gloomhaven be more that?[16:35:46] <Cahaan> long adventure with several paths to chose from[16:35:53] <Cahaan> nope GloomHaven is a puzzle game[16:36:05] <Cahaan> disguised into an RPG[16:36:15] <Cahaan> the dungeons and quests are not very interesting imho[16:36:19] <Cahaan> and the narrative is very linear[16:36:23] <Cahaan> and not that engaging[16:36:31] <Cahaan> but, the combat mechanics are interesting though[16:36:56] <Cahaan> GloomHaven might be a good "RPG fix" if you're more into eurogames[16:37:00] <Cahaan> (I'm not)[16:37:16] <Cahaan> but yeah that game has definitely nice things[16:37:21] <Cahaan> and good ideas[16:37:32] <Cahaan> I'm just not a fan of the implementation[16:37:35] <Cahaan> it's also very fiddly[16:38:17] <Cahaan> I have Betrayal and I also have Eldritch[16:38:25] <Cahaan> nice games, Betrayal is original and interesting[16:38:40] <Cahaan> I like the fact that you don't know the story and each game is played very differently[16:39:04] <Cahaan> Eldritch horror is really nice, but skill checks are a bit frustrating at times[16:39:24] <Cahaan> (very random)[16:44:22] <WarauSalesman> Betrayal also takes forever[16:44:27] <WarauSalesman> but it is not bad[16:44:54] <WarauSalesman> I played it a couple times. the only thing I didn't like is that the traitor is only a sole player[16:45:09] <WarauSalesman> at least BSG could have two cylons[16:46:46] <Cahaan> I have BSG as well[16:46:54] <Cahaan> (yeah I have tons of boardgames)[16:47:04] <Cahaan> only played it once, didn't really like it for some reason[16:47:16] <WarauSalesman> BSG is as good as the playgroup[16:47:22] <WarauSalesman> and it is a fan based game[16:47:26] <Cahaan> the non-treacherous aspect was not fascinating[16:47:34] <Cahaan> and i don't like the TV series[16:47:39] <Cahaan> so it probably doesn't help[16:48:09] <Cahaan> games as good as the group is not true[16:48:09] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:4466:7600:3ab1:d4d4:9081:13c3> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:48:21] <Cahaan> we usually enjoy games with traitors[16:48:42] <Cahaan> BSG just didn't feel as fun as others[16:49:10] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:4466:7600:3ab1:d4d4:9081:13c3> has joined #gamedev[16:50:06] <Cahaan> Dungeon Run from PlaidHat games has an awesome traitor mechanism[16:50:14] <Cahaan> underrated game[16:50:20] *** Overnumerousness <Overnumerousness!~Overnumer@184-96-175-65.hlrn.qwest.net> has joined #gamedev[16:52:56] <Cahaan> Dead of Winter is also pretty good (secret objectives)[16:53:23] <Cahaan> the mix between common objectives (survival against zombies) + secret individual objectives is an interesting mix[16:59:09] *** grouse <grouse!~grouse@83-233-9-2.cust.bredband2.com> has joined #gamedev[17:00:20] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[17:03:55] <DarkUranium> WarauSalesman, in my experience, Betrayal is a fairly quick game.[17:04:01] <DarkUranium> I've seen faster, but it's still fairly quick.[17:04:30] <DarkUranium> R2robot, if you remember what the Turkish guy's name was, lemme know. Might as well look into it.,[17:04:55] <DarkUranium> Unless his questions were of a more basic nature. I do need someone who actually knows what he's doing :P[17:05:55] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:f8c0:542d:f990:6740> has joined #gamedev[17:14:01] *** aly777 <aly777!~kes777@50-242-177-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[17:14:39] <R2robot> oh yeah, he seemed like a total newb. :D DarkUranium[17:15:19] <DarkUranium> Pass. :P[17:15:28] <DarkUranium> Nothing wrong with that, but not exactly what I'm looking for right now.[17:15:56] <R2robot> :)[17:22:12] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[17:23:07] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[17:24:01] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:85a5:ae6b:996a:decb> has joined #gamedev[17:25:11] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df0a2-207.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[17:28:11] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@67.218.88.131> has joined #gamedev[17:28:17] <notchris> o/.[17:28:23] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[17:28:44] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[17:34:21] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has joined #gamedev[17:35:08] <DarkUranium> hi notchris[17:35:34] <notchris> sup DarkUranium[17:35:40] <notchris> finally got my coffee[17:36:09] <DarkUranium> nm[17:36:45] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:37:27] <notchris> ehhh same[17:37:28] <notchris> at work :X[17:38:46] *** BlueProtoman <BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@ool-4577fdaf.dyn.optonline.net> has joined #gamedev[17:43:19] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host)[17:44:20] <pulse> do most people have 16:9 monitors on desktop?[17:45:07] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)[17:45:22] <pulse> lol. 1366x768 has an aspect ratio 683:384[17:45:23] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[17:46:19] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #gamedev[17:48:11] *** bildramer1 is now known as bildramer[17:50:05] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has joined #gamedev[17:56:24] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmvhCbG2d90[18:03:50] <notchris> i need to[18:03:56] <notchris> make the header of our museum page more fun[18:04:36] <pulse> run it through http://www.wonder-tonic.com/geocitiesizer/[18:05:18] <notchris> omg[18:05:20] <notchris> :P[18:09:00] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[18:10:16] *** code_zombie <code_zombie!~code_zomb@2605:a601:aa1:da00:384b:8079:60b:2056> has joined #gamedev[18:18:02] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@178.197.235.13> has joined #gamedev[18:18:13] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[18:18:19] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[18:22:48] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[18:23:26] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[18:27:56] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@178.197.235.13> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[18:28:55] *** wPSvils <wPSvils!~PDevelope@193.238.213.7> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[18:32:38] *** grouse <grouse!~grouse@83-233-9-2.cust.bredband2.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[18:38:30] *** LastTalon <LastTalon!~LastTalon@cpe-24-208-55-58.new.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Wild LastTalon fled!)[18:39:41] *** LastTalon <LastTalon!~LastTalon@cpe-24-208-55-58.new.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[18:41:00] <notchris> rip[18:41:10] <notchris> pulse: trying to do something cool with butterflies maybe[18:41:12] <notchris> or a spaceship[18:43:59] <warweasle> Am I spaceship dreaming I'm a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming I was a spaceship![18:44:25] <notchris> Both[18:44:38] <pulse> the moon is made of cheese[18:45:19] <mijowh> omg geocitiesizer >.< i feel like im in the 90s[18:45:25] <mijowh> thats funny[18:45:57] <pulse> :}[18:46:07] <mijowh> takes ya back[18:46:14] <mijowh> a simpler time[18:55:04] <mijowh> https://streamable.com/1tcjb[19:04:28] <notchris> lol[19:04:30] * WarauSalesman can't stop eating general tso's chicken[19:04:33] <WarauSalesman> it is TOO GOOD[19:05:23] <warweasle> General Tso is going to be angry.[19:05:54] <warweasle> "Wooos been eating my chicken! That's my chicken, damnit!"[19:07:46] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, hmm[19:08:04] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, could you help me with something? I'd like to evaluate Haxe for this project (again)[19:28:01] <Cahaan> that was fun warweasle[19:49:18] *** BlueProtoman <BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@ool-4577fdaf.dyn.optonline.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[19:51:03] *** hahuang65_ <hahuang65_!~hahuang65@46.244.28.23> has joined #gamedev[19:51:34] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has joined #gamedev[19:52:49] *** eddof13 <eddof13!~eddof13@201-156-176-12.reservada.static.axtel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[19:54:38] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[19:58:34] *** thomas_2_ <thomas_2_!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[20:14:58] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[20:16:55] *** thomas_2_ <thomas_2_!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[20:18:44] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[20:20:18] *** hahuang65 <hahuang65!~hahuang65@104-50-0-198.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #gamedev[20:20:27] <Donitzo> I'll say[20:20:32] <Donitzo> my immitation AI isn't doing too bad[20:20:40] <Donitzo> it's able to beat me[20:22:35] <DarkUranium> nice[20:22:48] <WarauSalesman> is that an accomplishment? :D[20:23:14] *** hahuang65_ <hahuang65_!~hahuang65@46.244.28.23> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[20:23:41] <Donitzo> hurr hurr[20:23:56] <Donitzo> the AI uses nothing but your own moves against you based on the state of the game[20:24:44] <WarauSalesman> :D[20:25:03] <Donitzo> it's a bit wierd sometimes when it acts like you'd act[20:25:27] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:25:30] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #gamedev[20:26:30] <Donitzo> anyway, so now I need to make the code like 5 times smaller[20:26:37] <Donitzo> to fit in 1kb[20:29:01] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[20:30:53] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has joined #gamedev[20:38:40] *** Kelz0rz <Kelz0rz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has joined #gamedev[20:39:17] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:40:03] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[20:42:30] <notchris> I havent used AI before[20:42:36] <notchris> I was wondering about it a bit for a project[20:42:39] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:84f5:404f:c8d8:8c5a> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[20:43:29] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[20:46:05] *** Kelz0rz is now known as Kelzorz[20:48:22] *** wPSvils <wPSvils!~PDevelope@193.238.213.7> has joined #gamedev[20:56:56] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:4466:7600:3ab1:d4d4:9081:13c3> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[20:57:20] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:4466:7600:3ab1:d4d4:9081:13c3> has joined #gamedev[21:00:47] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[21:01:21] <Donitzo> how can I download the shim in js1k[21:02:58] <Donitzo> oh I see[21:03:03] <Donitzo> I literally just download the shim page[21:03:22] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has quit IRC (Quit: later dudes)[21:05:26] *** toothlessg <toothlessg!~toothless@rrcs-24-103-153-67.nys.biz.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:21:30] *** rindolf <rindolf!~shlomif@77.126.109.232> has joined #gamedev[21:21:34] <rindolf> hi all, there is a gratis GRID 2 game offer over at https://www.humblebundle.com/[21:24:56] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)[21:25:05] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined #gamedev[21:50:11] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)[21:53:16] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.206.251.217> has joined #gamedev[21:55:03] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@67.218.88.131> has left #gamedev[21:56:01] *** Iolo <Iolo!~iolo@dsl-tkubng22-58c023-38.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.1 - http://znc.in)[21:57:45] *** Iolo <Iolo!~iolo@dsl-tkubng22-58c023-38.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #gamedev[21:59:29] *** thomas_25 <thomas_25!~thomas_25@unaffiliated/thomas-25/x-0068438> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[22:03:27] <gogoprog> DarkUranium: yes?[22:03:51] <DarkUranium> gogoprog, sorry, I don't really have *specific* questions, but was just wondering if you could help me out while I evaluated it (not today though)[22:04:49] <gogoprog> sure, I'm always hanging out here during European day time[22:06:01] <DarkUranium> Nice.[22:06:47] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-178-005-226-169.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[22:11:03] *** unreal <unreal!~unreal@unaffiliated/unreal> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[22:11:56] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:12:58] *** unreal <unreal!~unreal@unaffiliated/unreal> has joined #gamedev[22:13:25] <mijowh> yay for deadlock conditions \o/[22:13:36] <mijowh> sarcasm complete[22:15:38] *** S_Gautam <S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mddergnmgfawhyrx> has joined #gamedev[22:15:58] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[22:19:37] <WarauSalesman> tell me about it[22:19:54] <WarauSalesman> I am designing a home made solution for transactional queries[22:20:50] <defk0n> what do you guys think about procedural generation[22:20:56] <WarauSalesman> I think it is amazing[22:20:59] <defk0n> you got these big studios who can just crank out assets.[22:21:04] <defk0n> like its nothing[22:21:08] <defk0n> i know right[22:21:12] <defk0n> its pretty fkng cool[22:21:17] <defk0n> the future is procedural[22:21:18] <WarauSalesman> fuck the big studios. procedural is old. even atari 2600 had games using it[22:21:39] <WarauSalesman> a very awesome example is River Raid[22:21:45] <WarauSalesman> designed by an awesome woman[22:21:45] <mijowh> im writing a system for network comms between a client and server. the client has a deadlock condition if the user requests to disconnect manually from server (autodisconnect on say socket close works fine)[22:21:54] <defk0n> iwanna learn houdini but it costs so fucking much[22:21:55] <WarauSalesman> you can play it for hours and you always get different LEVALS[22:22:07] <mijowh> hopefully this isnt indicative of deeper issues in my engine and its a simple thing[22:22:22] <WarauSalesman> defk0n, just make the procedures yourself[22:22:33] <defk0n> in what 3d editor[22:22:44] <WarauSalesman> procedural things should be natural for decent coders[22:22:48] <defk0n> procedural is like a mix between 3d modelling and programming[22:22:49] <WarauSalesman> but they are a dying breed[22:22:57] <WarauSalesman> coders are being replaced by tool users, instead :([22:23:18] <defk0n> yeah like 1 architect and 10 tool users.[22:23:39] <WarauSalesman> and none of them knows enough of CS theory to build a decent thing :-/[22:23:58] <mijowh> make your own tools[22:24:07] <defk0n> thats the thing, you have all these node editors in unreal/houdini its basically a poor mans scripting[22:24:13] <defk0n> dragging nodes and shit[22:24:14] <defk0n> fuck that[22:24:19] <mijowh> i hate visual scripting[22:24:37] <mijowh> had to do it a bit in school in gamemaker[22:24:49] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[22:24:54] <mijowh> its so unintuitive[22:25:05] <mijowh> code is much clearer[22:25:10] <WarauSalesman> I can't agree more[22:25:10] <defk0n> yeah[22:25:15] <WarauSalesman> "dragging based programming"[22:25:36] <defk0n> it doesnt even make sense if its complicated only the author knows wtf[22:25:40] <defk0n> its supposed to do[22:26:06] <defk0n> convert 2d nodes into code and back to 2d nodes is like too much[22:26:12] <defk0n> mental effort[22:26:20] <mijowh> ah fixed my deadlock :D[22:26:50] <mijowh> it was a simple thing, i just forgot to unlock before a return during error condition (ENOTCONN)[22:26:56] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:26:56] <mijowh> phew[22:27:54] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[22:28:52] <mijowh> threading can be a pain sometimes[22:29:10] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:30:02] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[22:31:28] <defk0n> but you dont want to create everything procedurally[22:31:35] <defk0n> you want to start with some base template[22:31:38] <defk0n> i guess[22:31:43] <myke> prerendering also works[22:32:34] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[22:33:14] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[22:33:55] <defk0n> realtime procedural generation is hard to get right[22:34:39] <defk0n> if every vertex needs to get generated[22:43:00] <WarauSalesman> pff[22:51:53] <NiniGeo2> Take a look at those 64k and 4k demos that the demoscene holds competitions with. Those are really impressive displays of what could be done with realtime procedural generation.[22:52:46] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[23:00:34] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:f8c0:542d:f990:6740> has quit IRC (Quit: The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing)[23:00:44] *** unreal <unreal!~unreal@unaffiliated/unreal> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[23:01:48] *** eddof13 <eddof13!~eddof13@201-156-176-12.reservada.static.axtel.net> has joined #gamedev[23:03:52] *** Kelzorz <Kelzorz!~Kelzorz@162.104.220.155> has joined #gamedev[23:04:13] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined #gamedev[23:06:28] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has joined #gamedev[23:07:52] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[23:27:44] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[23:27:57] <mandeep> t[23:31:19] <WarauSalesman> the castle[23:31:28] <Prestige> hello[23:31:38] <WarauSalesman> it is me you are looking for?[23:33:40] <Prestige> Are you a protocol or R1 series astromech droid?[23:36:41] * WarauSalesman is a love bot[23:36:58] <Prestige> Oh, I guess you're not the droids we are looking for[23:37:01] <Prestige> move along[23:37:44] <WarauSalesman> :~([23:37:51] * WarauSalesman loves you anyway[23:38:13] <Prestige> :][23:39:00] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:85a5:ae6b:996a:decb> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[23:39:04] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:4466:7600:3ab1:d4d4:9081:13c3> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)[23:46:21] *** notchris <notchris!~notchris@c-73-16-120-84.hsd1.ct.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[23:46:55] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidpizz@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[23:48:47] * notchris is back[23:52:26] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has joined #gamedev[23:57:37] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:c9eb:3168:bb4b:ebb6> has joined #gamedev