February 1, 2019 
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February 1, 2019 [00:12:05] *** RandomCouch <RandomCouch!~RandomSof@207.219.200.115> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[00:22:29] *** blackpawn <blackpawn!~blackpawn@c-73-73-53-23.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving...)[00:28:34] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@188.30.99.249.threembb.co.uk> has joined #gamedev[00:37:06] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.206.251.217> has joined #gamedev[00:37:10] <_DB> meow[00:37:11] <_DB> https://youtu.be/RLVvrRHnf0w[00:46:33] <LunarJetman> my video poker game: https://i.imgur.com/8AdYdYK.png[00:46:50] <NiniGeo2> Cool :)[00:47:27] <LunarJetman> the playing cards are composed of multiple elements (there isn't one texture per card)[00:48:34] <LunarJetman> you can resize window and aspect ratios are maintained: https://i.imgur.com/teemEJ4.png[00:49:53] *** gibbers <gibbers!2662a2f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.98.162.245> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[01:00:03] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@88.135.146.138> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[01:01:27] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[01:01:58] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.127.7.201> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[01:05:29] *** genr8_ <genr8_!~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:09:36] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has joined #gamedev[01:19:31] *** macza_ <macza_!~macza@162.221.202.202> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:23:27] *** Mia <Mia!~Mia@unaffiliated/mia> has joined #gamedev[01:34:20] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@188.30.99.249.threembb.co.uk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[01:50:56] *** carldd <carldd!~carld@2001:2002:5ae0:3171:dc16:2108:930b:bbd1> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[01:59:21] <WarauSalesman> you need multiple textures to draw these silly cards?[01:59:25] <WarauSalesman> bummer! he is gone :-/[02:00:55] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has quit IRC (Quit: freestyledork)[02:06:21] *** carldd <carldd!~carld@2001:2002:5ae0:3171:dc16:2108:930b:bbd1> has joined #gamedev[02:08:24] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[02:12:34] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[02:13:16] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[02:46:50] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidfox@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)[02:48:20] *** [o <[o!~kamcho@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #gamedev[02:48:37] *** freefork_afk is now known as freestyledork[03:04:21] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[03:48:15] *** code_zombie <code_zombie!~code_zomb@2605:a601:aa1:da00:8953:57a8:4b11:a9f0> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[04:06:26] *** carldd <carldd!~carld@2001:2002:5ae0:3171:dc16:2108:930b:bbd1> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[04:09:42] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[04:13:22] *** Kingsquee <Kingsquee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[04:13:47] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[04:14:55] <cantelope> https://codepen.io/cantelope/full/ZweGmE[04:16:13] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-24-166-114-198.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[04:17:41] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidfox@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[04:21:46] *** carldd <carldd!~carld@2001:2002:5ae0:3171:dc16:2108:930b:bbd1> has joined #gamedev[04:23:49] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[04:25:54] <pulse> cantelope, nice![04:26:09] <cantelope> thx pulse :D[04:33:53] <Tylak> went outside for a bit, now my fingers are frozen. Back inside now and they're burning :O[04:35:23] <cantelope> you need mittens lined with emu feathers[04:35:55] <cantelope> but alas, none exist[04:36:27] <cantelope> thanks for nothing, capitalism and the so-called free market[04:37:39] <myke> what do you do for income, cantelope ?[04:38:06] *** [o <[o!~kamcho@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[04:39:52] <cantelope> myke, i work for LTMH, specifically their subsidiary KiwiIRC. i write plugins and animations and assist users and developers[04:41:39] <myke> cool[04:41:44] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@cpe-98-145-151-187.natnow.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[04:43:09] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[04:46:04] *** diwr <diwr!~bruno@unaffiliated/diwr> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[04:46:42] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Quit: pulse)[05:08:21] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@88.135.146.138> has joined #gamedev[05:19:46] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@cpe-98-145-151-187.natnow.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: zzzzzz)[05:48:52] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-24-166-114-198.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[05:56:24] *** Kingsquee <Kingsquee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Excess Flood)[05:56:52] *** Kingsquee <Kingsquee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[06:01:56] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:b9c1:6a0b:fa75:e577> has joined #gamedev[06:04:14] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@88.135.146.138> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[06:19:05] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[06:22:44] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[06:29:56] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[06:40:51] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[06:48:14] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:fd6a:2fb8:a110:c92b> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[06:51:02] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidfox@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)[06:58:19] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has joined #gamedev[07:02:02] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[07:25:25] *** zeduckmaster <zeduckmaster!~zeduckmas@85.106.1.181> has joined #gamedev[07:37:33] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[07:39:34] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has joined #gamedev[07:42:08] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!jprajzne@nat/redhat/x-accokiofayrjuomz> has joined #gamedev[07:44:12] *** acute_software <acute_software!~Thunderbi@124-169-209-142.dyn.iinet.net.au> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[07:56:18] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has joined #gamedev[08:16:32] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:b9c1:6a0b:fa75:e577> has quit IRC (Quit: The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing)[08:24:00] *** Coldragon <Coldragon!~Coldragon@138.215.7.93.rev.sfr.net> has joined #gamedev[08:35:48] *** rewind__ <rewind__!~rewind@girafe-sage.et.ours-courageux.info> has joined #gamedev[08:39:45] *** rewind_ <rewind_!~rewind@2a01:e35:87d1:600:81cd:5eba:938a:2e66> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[08:41:40] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[08:44:40] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[08:46:27] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[08:46:41] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.147.55.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has joined #gamedev[09:04:07] *** aindilis <aindilis!~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[09:13:48] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[09:14:59] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[09:26:02] *** pavonia <pavonia!~user@unaffiliated/siracusa> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye!)[09:26:36] <_DB> anyone need a coder ? looking for small paid gigs[09:49:24] <wPSvils> _DB: I can use help with my game engine. I only support the second payment option: https://prnt.sc/mf4mis[09:51:39] <DarkUranium> _DB, what's your skillset, and how much do you charge?[09:51:46] <DarkUranium> lol wPSvils[09:54:34] <_DB> I charged depending on project but my rates vary from 15-25 usd an hour usually ill try to do a fixed price[09:55:15] <_DB> as far as my skill sets go I use unity and unreal , but I also code in a few languages. me and my team made this game[09:55:34] <_DB> ima fullstack developer I know how to make apps, and websites as well[09:56:46] <_DB> this is my most recent website https://www.flipsetter.com/login[09:57:38] <_DB> it has an api built in for 3rd party login and register, instant messaging made from the ground up and a paint system made in javascript that communicates to unity currently. were prototyping in unity then moving to c# or react native[09:58:00] <_DB> the paint system allows people to draw together on a whiteboard style interface[09:59:52] <_DB> wPSvils XD exposure really haha[10:00:34] <_DB> I have a friend working on a game engine I help him out here and there by offering a second set of eyes[10:00:41] *** sebbu <sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[10:01:11] *** sebbu <sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu> has joined #gamedev[10:05:07] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.127.7.201> has joined #gamedev[10:05:57] <_DB> DarkUranium ^^[10:06:04] <DarkUranium> _DB, yeah, i see it; sorry, multitasking :P[10:06:06] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df042-11.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #gamedev[10:07:50] <_DB> no problem[10:11:25] <DnzAtWrk> are we gonna have a problem?[10:12:13] <jprajzne> it's a problem of you don't have any problem[10:12:25] <rts-sander> you wanna problem!?[10:12:38] <DnzAtWrk> Me and your mother had a problem yesterday[10:13:12] <_DB> hahaha[10:31:56] <DarkUranium> _DB, anyhow, I've been looking for a webdev, actually, though I was hoping to find someone who'd be interested in the project, as opposed to just hiring a random guy[10:34:03] <_DB> DarkUranium well currently I cant take unpaid work working a part time job until I find a steady client. im waiting for more investment cash to kick in to the flipsetter website I made to get back to that as well. what type of project / website is it?[10:34:38] <DarkUranium> _DB, it's for tabletop RPGs. Like D&D. I can tell you more details in privchat.[10:34:47] <_DB> sure sounds good[10:59:12] *** Kingsquee <Kingsquee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Quit: しょうがない)[11:00:29] * mr_lou thought everyone was using Unity these days, when wanting to target web[11:08:39] <DnzAtWrk> hahahahahaha[11:08:48] <DnzAtWrk> well, okay maybe most people are[11:08:57] * DnzAtWrk still uses raw javascript[11:09:08] <DnzAtWrk> I don't like the bloated builds unity makes[11:09:12] <mr_lou> Soon "coding from scratch" will be a lost art.[11:09:34] * mr_lou don't like frameworks in general[11:09:41] <DnzAtWrk> well, there is "from scratch" and "from scratch"[11:09:57] <DnzAtWrk> for example, javascript provides all the quality of life tools you need to easily make something from scratch[11:09:59] <DnzAtWrk> c++ does not[11:12:06] <jprajzne> js has much better start than almost any other prog. lang.[11:12:26] <jprajzne> you're set right from the start[11:12:39] <DnzAtWrk> It's really getting up there with python in the best educational languages[11:12:46] <DnzAtWrk> even better is that it's basically available on every computer ever[11:12:59] <DnzAtWrk> and your phone[11:13:02] <DnzAtWrk> and microwave[11:13:30] * mr_lou feels all those statements apply to Java more than Javascript[11:13:39] <DnzAtWrk> naw[11:13:43] <DnzAtWrk> you actually have to install java[11:13:43] <jprajzne> mr_lou: no[11:13:47] <DnzAtWrk> using oracle's terrible installer[11:14:10] <mr_lou> You have to install a browser too[11:14:12] <jprajzne> open editor, write som js code, save, open in the browser[11:14:14] <jprajzne> boom[11:14:17] <DnzAtWrk> not really in windows[11:14:21] <DnzAtWrk> ie is implied[11:14:27] <mr_lou> Edge doesn't count. It's terrible.[11:14:36] <jprajzne> rendering for free[11:14:37] <DnzAtWrk> and I think the vast majority of linux distros include a web browser[11:14:52] <mr_lou> Installing Java is easy.[11:15:21] <mr_lou> Nothing terrible about the Windows installer at all. And on Linux it's just a single command.[11:15:49] <DnzAtWrk> hah[11:15:56] <DnzAtWrk> guess you don't remember the bloatware they used to include[11:16:00] <jprajzne> if you know the damn package name :))[11:16:30] <jprajzne> seriously, you can't really compare java and javascript[11:16:49] <DnzAtWrk> yes. One is a scripting language the other a programming language[11:17:14] <jprajzne> in terms of ecoystem[11:17:24] <DnzAtWrk> meh, I'll take it or leave it[11:17:27] <DnzAtWrk> I don't like npm[11:17:33] <jprajzne> scripting language is also programming language[11:18:00] <jprajzne> anyway, js has far better start[11:18:12] <jprajzne> and if i want to do webrtc in js, on the web?[11:18:15] <DnzAtWrk> js is much easier to get into[11:18:20] <DnzAtWrk> you can get started in a couple of minutes[11:18:22] <jprajzne> you can't come at me with java :))[11:18:22] <DnzAtWrk> compared to java[11:18:54] <DnzAtWrk> and I can write a game from scratch in js on a single .html document in an hour[11:18:55] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has joined #gamedev[11:18:59] <DnzAtWrk> using webgl[11:19:03] <DnzAtWrk> try that in most other languages :P[11:19:06] <jprajzne> yeah[11:19:46] <DnzAtWrk> plus it's sandboxed[11:19:53] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[11:19:53] <DnzAtWrk> so other people can relatively safely run my program[11:20:10] <DnzAtWrk> (as long as they avoid the file protocol)[11:20:23] <jprajzne> :)[11:21:29] <DnzAtWrk> flash is dead, long live js[11:22:29] <mr_lou> O_o[11:22:39] <mr_lou> Still your statements apply to Java - also sandboxed.[11:22:45] <mr_lou> :->[11:22:58] <jprajzne> mr_lou: stop trolling :))[11:24:39] <mr_lou> I'd like to see a Javascript game run on the PlayStation 4 browser. :-)[11:24:50] <mr_lou> That's not trolling. That's something I'd seriously like to see.[11:24:56] <mr_lou> I bet it's possible.[11:25:22] <mr_lou> I can also use Java to make a game for the PlayStation 4 though.[11:25:29] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[11:26:08] <mr_lou> Or PlayStation 3 for that matter.... or Xbox One.[11:26:13] * mr_lou googles[11:26:19] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[11:26:39] <DnzAtWrk> and I could make a game in SDL[11:26:44] <DnzAtWrk> I don't because I value my time[11:28:26] <mr_lou> How well does a Javascript game run in the console browsers?[11:28:37] <DnzAtWrk> I think canvas works on ps4[11:28:45] <DnzAtWrk> so, I guess most of my games would work[11:28:56] <mr_lou> Well throw me a link! Let's find out?[11:28:59] * mr_lou has a PS3.[11:29:07] <mr_lou> Now I'm curious.[11:29:14] <DnzAtWrk> didn't code in gamepad input but sure[11:29:22] <DnzAtWrk> https://donitz.itch.io/[11:29:53] <DnzAtWrk> oh wait, the first game uses three.js[11:29:56] <DnzAtWrk> so that one should not work[11:30:01] <DnzAtWrk> that's webgl[11:30:10] <DnzAtWrk> I mean, the second one[11:30:49] <mr_lou> But you just said javascript gives you all you need. ;-)[11:30:52] <mr_lou> :-P[11:31:03] * mr_lou gotta go for a while - back later[11:31:16] <DnzAtWrk> well no shit[11:31:20] <DnzAtWrk> I wasn't making a ps4 game[11:31:43] <mr_lou> Maybe WebGL is available on PS4. Do you know for sure that it isn't?[11:32:00] <DnzAtWrk> no[11:32:38] <DnzAtWrk> I could upload a game that will work[11:32:48] <DnzAtWrk> *chin scratch*[11:32:49] <DnzAtWrk> yeah, why not[11:32:57] <jprajzne> https://plus.google.com/+DonOlmstead/posts/Mzy6VEAwHaa[11:33:38] <jprajzne> back in 2013[11:34:16] <wPSvils> I'm a DIY from scratch guy, sadly.[11:34:41] <wPSvils> I enjoy making the low level systems. Since it's all a hobby, I learn a lot and like it, sometimes it translates to my work as well.[11:34:49] <DnzAtWrk> I'm the kind of guy who enjoys exposing the underlying mechanics of a game[11:34:54] <DnzAtWrk> the code should be part of the beauty[11:34:55] <wPSvils> But not good time value in the business sense.[11:36:04] <DnzAtWrk> too bad itch.io obfuscates the build code[11:36:10] <DnzAtWrk> but you can include a zip with the source[11:36:31] <DnzAtWrk> hmmm[11:36:40] <DnzAtWrk> now how would you include the source in the game itself[11:36:55] <DnzAtWrk> entity -> showSource[11:37:32] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df042-11.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[12:01:42] *** bnyio <bnyio!~bnyio@alcatraz.open-xchange.com> has joined #gamedev[12:08:44] <mr_lou> jprajzne, Nice[12:09:12] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-178-012-035-182.178.012.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[12:11:57] <R2robot> weirdos[12:13:37] * mr_lou is proud to be a weirdo[12:15:40] <R2robot> same, but in different ways[12:16:26] * mr_lou wanna see a Javascript game optimized for the console browsers. :-)[12:16:45] <R2robot> GTFO[12:16:48] <R2robot> :P[12:19:47] <mr_lou> R2robot, It's just geeking around. You should try it.[12:20:14] <R2robot> i do[12:20:22] <R2robot> "in different ways"[12:21:34] <mr_lou> That's exactly a good point.[12:21:49] <mr_lou> I often run into people doing the weirdest geeky project, and I go "....why?"[12:22:06] <mr_lou> Everyone can see all the reason and logic in spending their time on their own projects. ;-)[12:22:12] <R2robot> yep :)[12:23:27] <mr_lou> I know someone who made a teletext engine a while back.[12:23:35] <mr_lou> Just because.[12:23:55] <R2robot> weirdo[12:24:08] <mr_lou> And another dude who decided to code a music application in GWBasic - which can only make a single channel square synth tone.....[12:24:43] <mr_lou> My interest lies in having homebrew games running on the game consoles. That's not so weird now afterall, is it?[12:25:40] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[12:25:56] <R2robot> nah, that's been a looong time dream as well[12:25:58] <R2robot> but times have changed[12:26:50] <mr_lou> Yes, for the better. It's perfectly possibl today.[12:27:03] <mr_lou> Apparently it even runs WebGL.[12:28:15] <mr_lou> My only problem with Flash / Javascript games is that they usually reside on websites full of lame ads.[12:28:45] <R2robot> people want to make monies :D[12:28:54] <R2robot> I can't fault them for that[12:30:05] <Cahaan> this is why we can't have nice things[12:32:55] <mr_lou> Not all people. Some just wanna dev homebrew and get nice feedback.[12:34:29] <R2robot> super weirdos[12:48:02] <mr_lou> I'm into proof-of-concept projects.[12:48:15] <mr_lou> If someone says something is impossible, I gotta prove them wrong. ;-)[12:48:44] <R2robot> that's a treadmill to nowhere[12:48:49] <R2robot> until death by exhaustion :P[12:50:30] <mr_lou> Not if it's a hobby you like.[12:51:57] <R2robot> it is when others are dictating it[12:52:05] <R2robot> 'gotta prove 'em wrong'[12:52:37] <jprajzne> you don't have to disprove everyone :)[12:53:01] <R2robot> maybe he's a bit OCD and does have to. :)[12:54:24] <jprajzne> it's individual :)[12:54:54] <R2robot> of course.[12:55:14] <R2robot> but this whole convo still fits in with what we said earlier :D[12:55:38] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[12:57:42] <mr_lou> R2robot, I have a family and job to spend my time on. No way I'm doing any projects if I don't enjoy them. ;-)[12:58:55] <R2robot> :)[13:00:21] <mr_lou> Only projects that I find interesting - but I do find weird shit interesting. ;-)[13:19:46] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined #gamedev[13:20:22] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8a0c:b900:e0ad:472b:b8f7:52e> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[13:23:40] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has joined #gamedev[13:25:31] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:41:29] * mr_lou just got a small Flash app running on PS3 browser, and also a small HTML5 canvas thingy.[13:41:37] <mr_lou> But wow it's slow. Java runs MUCH faster.[13:42:46] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8a0c:b900:e0ad:472b:b8f7:52e> has joined #gamedev[13:49:08] <jprajzne> mr_lou: sweet[13:49:42] <jprajzne> you can blame the porters for the poorer performance :)[13:57:34] <mr_lou> :-)[13:58:01] <mr_lou> Also tried running a WebGL game, but it just told me "Your browser doesn't support WebGL".[13:58:07] <mr_lou> A game made with Unity.[13:58:20] <mr_lou> Maybe PS4 works better.[13:59:08] <jprajzne> do you have it enabled?[14:00:09] <mr_lou> Er... webGL? Is it something I need to enable in the PS3?[14:00:20] <jprajzne> in the browser, maybe[14:00:45] <mr_lou> Will check later. Right now the kids took possesion of it.[14:01:04] <jprajzne> oh no, it's all lost :))[14:01:07] <mr_lou> heh[14:06:23] <mr_lou> Can't find any such setting[14:06:30] <mr_lou> Don't think it's available in PS3.[14:06:57] <mr_lou> And if it was, it would run terribly slow, judging from the simple canvas stuff I ran.[14:07:17] <jprajzne> about:config in firefox, chrome://settings[14:07:24] <jprajzne> but idk what browser is on ps3[14:09:26] <jprajzne> it has probably webkit core[14:10:01] <jprajzne> https://psdevwiki.com/ps3/Web_Browser[14:10:06] <jprajzne> silk/webkit[14:16:01] <mr_lou> It's only suitable for turnbased games, like cards or jewels or other puzzles.[14:16:06] <mr_lou> Too slow for anything else.[14:18:08] <jprajzne> well, given that ps3 is not for browser-based games, it's reasonable :)[14:28:20] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.127.7.201> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:32:49] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@241.red-88-7-89.staticip.rima-tde.net> has joined #gamedev[14:35:10] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.127.7.201> has joined #gamedev[14:36:01] <mr_lou> True[14:46:54] <mr_lou> jprajzne, But sometimes you can be surprised. ;-)[14:48:04] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:255e:207b:b733:c913> has joined #gamedev[14:49:00] <R2robot> it can't be done[14:49:06] <R2robot> :P[14:49:14] <jprajzne> mr_lou: absolutely :)[14:50:26] <mr_lou> R2robot, Of course it can. I just proved that it could. Just not any high framerate stuff. But puzzlegames will work fine as both Flash / ActionScript 3 / Flex and as HTML5 canvas Javascript stuff.[14:50:42] <R2robot> Impossible![14:51:01] <jprajzne> impossibru :))[14:51:12] <R2robot> :)[14:53:50] <mr_lou> 4-5 fps is fine for puzzle games.[14:54:03] <mr_lou> :->[14:54:16] <mr_lou> Especially if you're a bit daft.[14:55:20] <jprajzne> it depends on how much animation is going on there[14:55:43] <jprajzne> thinking can take a long time, but the solution should not[14:55:48] <mr_lou> Of course. Everything *always* depends on something.[14:55:57] <jprajzne> and the fps should not hold you back[14:56:11] <mr_lou> The solution is simple of course: Use Java. ;-)[14:56:33] <mr_lou> Java saves the day![14:56:38] *** shlomif <shlomif!~rindolf@77.127.103.165> has joined #gamedev[14:56:44] <jprajzne> :))[14:58:00] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.127.7.201> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[14:58:33] *** shlomif is now known as rindolf[14:59:57] <jprajzne> mr_lou: maybe try to be more agnostic :)[15:03:27] <mr_lou> Javaaaa! :-D[15:07:40] <jprajzne> i drink coffee, too :)[15:33:20] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.127.103.165> has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.shlomifish.org/ ; Some people grow older and wiser. Not I. I grow older and more foolish.)[15:38:57] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.127.103.165> has joined #gamedev[15:40:41] <Prestige> mr_lou: making a ps3 game?[15:41:54] <DarkUranium> Prestige, blu-ray game, IIRC.[15:47:20] <mr_lou> yea, working on my 2nd blu-ray game.[15:48:14] <mr_lou> designed to run on the PS3 / PS4 / XB1 though.[15:48:23] <mr_lou> Not for standard blu-ray players (yet)[15:55:59] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[15:58:25] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[15:58:44] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[16:04:21] *** zeduckmaster <zeduckmaster!~zeduckmas@85.106.1.181> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[16:18:09] *** bnyio <bnyio!~bnyio@alcatraz.open-xchange.com> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)[16:30:16] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:28fc:7d47:c89e:83ea> has joined #gamedev[16:38:09] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMF3Yi_clJ0[16:38:25] <pulse> d&b[16:43:23] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!jprajzne@nat/redhat/x-accokiofayrjuomz> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[16:49:27] *** pulse is now known as unpulsed[16:52:11] *** freefork_afk is now known as freestyledork[17:02:14] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@rrcs-24-123-119-186.central.biz.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[17:02:21] *** RandomCouch <RandomCouch!~RandomSof@207.219.200.115> has joined #gamedev[17:08:40] <R2robot> the world could use another game like Dragon's Lair and Space Ace. Good type of games for Blu-ray[17:16:44] <unpulsed> the world could use some 640x480[17:19:57] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #gamedev[17:34:23] *** pavonia <pavonia!~user@unaffiliated/siracusa> has joined #gamedev[17:34:39] *** macza <macza!~macza@162.221.202.202> has joined #gamedev[17:40:52] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined #gamedev[17:43:21] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidfox@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[17:48:15] *** lordkryss <lordkryss!uid25759@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ejvscsbsxnhqnpsm> has joined #gamedev[17:51:35] <unpulsed> :/[17:51:47] <unpulsed> my employer gives me code that makes me want to vomit[17:52:02] <rts-sander> pulse that playlist makes me feel like I'm listening to the same song on repeat for 1 hour :D[17:52:08] <unpulsed> rts-sander, lol[17:52:14] <unpulsed> it's good work music tho[17:52:37] <rts-sander> yeah that's why I'm still listening, it's nice to have on in the background :)[17:52:59] <unpulsed> i don't understand how people can write such ugly code and use it in production[17:53:11] <unpulsed> disgusting[17:53:14] <mr_lou> R2robot, Blu-ray is ideal for those interactive movies, like Bandersnatch on Netflix.[17:53:28] <unpulsed> i need to rewrite a whole bunch of code now or i'll literally go insane[17:53:35] <rts-sander> sometimes you write ugly code just because the existing code is already like that[17:53:50] <mr_lou> unpulsed, Going insane is overrated.[17:53:57] <mr_lou> Turns out it's a common thing.[17:54:53] <unpulsed> rts-sander, i have two choices right now. a) deal with incredibly messy code that doesn't respect any common sense, gordian knots everywhere, variable names don't correspond to what they're actually used for (a function called animateTable is used for buttons etc.)[17:54:56] <unpulsed> or b) rewrite the shit out of it[17:55:02] <unpulsed> fuck everything i'm going with b[17:55:29] <rts-sander> yeah at some point it's just easier to rewrite the whole thing[17:55:41] <unpulsed> and yeah you have a function called animateTable that animated buttons, and then you have another thing called table[17:55:46] <unpulsed> confusing much[17:55:49] <unpulsed> holy shit[17:56:05] <rts-sander> probably copy pasta[17:56:09] <unpulsed> yeah[17:56:29] <unpulsed> unfortunately i have to deal with 1000 loc of this crap[17:56:34] <unpulsed> no way i'm going through that[17:56:53] <unpulsed> actually takes me less time to rewrite everything from scratch in a sane way[17:57:21] <rts-sander> yeah you're lucky that's an option, in huge entangled codebases this isn't viable[17:57:32] <rts-sander> at least that what you find out after you're 4 hours in[17:57:35] <unpulsed> yeah i'd probably just quit if that were the case[17:57:42] <unpulsed> i can't even imagine the hells some programmers must be in[18:00:43] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:f06c:e94d:8743:d129> has joined #gamedev[18:06:31] *** Iolo <Iolo!~iolo@dsl-tkubng22-58c023-38.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.6.6+deb1ubuntu0.1 - http://znc.in)[18:07:46] *** Iolo <Iolo!~iolo@dsl-tkubng22-58c023-38.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #gamedev[18:16:21] <unpulsed> took me exactly 20 minutes to rewrite most of that crap[18:16:39] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[18:16:46] <unpulsed> if i'd gone with a) i'd probably need 3 hours and a diagram from hell[18:16:49] <unpulsed> ...[18:21:39] <unpulsed> 200 lines of sane code vs 1000 lines of unreadable nonsense[18:21:41] <unpulsed> jesus christ[18:25:43] <[Relic]> breaking news! boss axe murdered for handing out crappy code to competent coders to fix[18:26:25] <unpulsed> :P[18:26:55] <unpulsed> my boss is protected by about 4000 miles of sea between us[18:27:27] <unpulsed> it's not usually a problem because i get projects that i build from ground up[18:27:35] <unpulsed> but every now and then i get some crappy project to fix or update[18:27:40] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@88.135.146.138> has joined #gamedev[18:27:44] <unpulsed> and it's nearly always riddled with disgusting, vile code[18:27:57] <unpulsed> i can't even understand how this kind of code reaches production[18:28:16] <unpulsed> my guess is no one ever looks at the code, if it works they're happy enough[18:28:22] <[Relic]> no quality control and specific job deadlines[18:28:30] <unpulsed> yea[18:29:12] <unpulsed> most of the code looks like someone's been copy pasting things around until it worked[18:29:59] <unpulsed> the other month i got a project where the core functionality relied on about 100 magic constants[18:30:07] <unpulsed> worst project i ever had to fix[18:30:09] <unpulsed> for fucks sake[18:30:24] <unpulsed> i don't enjoy trying out variables until stuff works[18:30:38] <unpulsed> and you mess with one numbers and 4 other features break, lol[18:30:40] <unpulsed> like, wtf[18:30:47] <unpulsed> i don't even[18:31:54] <[Relic]> a lot of early c++ was copy paste :)[18:32:06] <rts-sander> sounds like the code I wrote when I was 14[18:32:12] <[Relic]> it works, don't touch it again[18:32:23] *** rts-sander <rts-sander!~rts-sande@185.60.252.150> has quit IRC (Quit: it's weekend I'm freeee)[18:32:42] <[Relic]> wonder how much he costs if it isn't a weekend :)[18:40:44] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has joined #gamedev[18:48:44] *** notus <notus!uid244649@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xjdnrajnjkyfyxko> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[19:12:30] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has joined #gamedev[19:19:18] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@rrcs-24-123-119-186.central.biz.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: zzzzzz)[19:24:02] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@241.red-88-7-89.staticip.rima-tde.net> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[19:24:12] *** domenkk <domenkk!uid25676@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ujcimzdovtrfzyha> has joined #gamedev[19:26:12] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@rrcs-24-123-119-190.central.biz.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[19:38:24] *** perplexity <perplexity!~perplexed@unaffiliated/perplexity> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:38:59] *** perplexity <perplexity!~perplexed@unaffiliated/perplexity> has joined #gamedev[19:50:26] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@rrcs-24-123-119-190.central.biz.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[19:53:05] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@rrcs-24-123-119-190.central.biz.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[19:53:12] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@188.30.99.249.threembb.co.uk> has joined #gamedev[19:56:17] <unpulsed> LunarJetman is here, hide your Qt projects![19:56:20] <unpulsed> :)[19:56:25] *** perplexity <perplexity!~perplexed@unaffiliated/perplexity> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:56:54] *** perplexity <perplexity!~perplexed@unaffiliated/perplexity> has joined #gamedev[19:57:56] <LunarJetman> yes[19:58:29] <rocky1138> Can we get a new topic?[19:58:34] <rocky1138> "Question for 2018..."[20:00:42] <unpulsed> question for 2019: there is no question, get back to work[20:00:45] <unpulsed> my suggestion[20:01:11] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[20:01:29] <brainzap> like if you listen to this in 2019[20:03:26] <unpulsed> i'm listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVOHTGYoM6E[20:03:52] <unpulsed> i need my weekly dose of horror ambient[20:05:56] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[20:07:24] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[20:07:34] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #gamedev[20:08:41] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:255e:207b:b733:c913> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[20:10:13] <brainzap> you mean fuel for your friday night depression?[20:11:03] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[20:11:58] <unpulsed> yes[20:13:29] <Donitzo> that's whisky[20:17:30] <Donitzo> god what am I listening to[20:17:31] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJwWekm_NIk[20:17:49] <Donitzo> I forgot how screechy sound blaster was[20:18:56] <brainzap> I ate too much chocolate I can feel my blood stream slowing down[20:24:29] <unpulsed> Donitzo ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJu8u3QOmk[20:25:40] <unpulsed> ~~smooth~~[20:28:05] <RandomCouch> unpulsed, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYIYYUSrwQs[20:29:50] <unpulsed> *leaps in slow motion*[20:30:17] <RandomCouch> hehe[20:30:28] <RandomCouch> definitely my fav horror ambient game soundtrack[20:30:33] <RandomCouch> although it's not much of a horror game[20:30:39] <RandomCouch> but the soundtrack does give off that feeling[20:31:27] <RandomCouch> Also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OPc7MRm4Y8[20:32:12] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlnMLX4uzw[20:32:27] <Donitzo> ah, that takes me back[20:34:13] <unpulsed> i have too much coffee in me to listen to that, Donitzo[20:34:16] *** grim001 <grim001!~grim001@ip70-173-209-228.lv.lv.cox.net> has joined #gamedev[20:34:26] <unpulsed> is nice tho[20:34:33] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVqS6ffvDhs[20:34:34] <Donitzo> try this then[20:35:14] <unpulsed> nice, very nice[20:35:36] <Donitzo> it's even freaker with midwives skulking around screaming about how they want to tear your spine out[20:35:40] <Donitzo> freakier*[20:36:13] <RandomCouch> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhTu_tU__Yg[20:36:13] <unpulsed> hmm[20:36:17] <RandomCouch> last one I swear[20:36:33] <unpulsed> IM :][20:36:46] <RandomCouch> I saw them live like 4 times[20:37:27] <unpulsed> nice[20:37:48] <unpulsed> i learned about them through this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtMJzyOiQkw[20:37:53] <unpulsed> like 15 years ago lol[20:38:01] <unpulsed> still impressively impressive track[20:38:09] <unpulsed> it's a remix i know but it's better than the original imo[20:38:47] <RandomCouch> nice[20:38:55] <RandomCouch> the first IM track I listened to was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJDpXPVFRUo[20:38:58] <RandomCouch> Converting Vegetarians[20:39:08] <unpulsed> hhe[20:39:09] <RandomCouch> It was on a whole other level of everythign else I listened to before[20:39:23] <RandomCouch> plus at that time in my life, I was really into psychedelics[20:39:28] <RandomCouch> so needless to say I got really hooked on IM[20:39:57] <unpulsed> i can understand that[20:41:23] <unpulsed> i was into psychedelics for a few years[20:41:26] <unpulsed> then i tried salvia[20:41:28] <unpulsed> :/[20:42:14] <unpulsed> "scared me straight" isn't really a strong enough wording of my sentiment since[20:42:46] <Donitzo> infinitely scrolling random physically enabled terrain -> check[20:42:47] <Donitzo> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hsdjodo4tkk0jfc/terrain.png?raw=1[20:43:04] <unpulsed> top down?[20:43:12] <unpulsed> oh side scrolling[20:43:42] <Donitzo> I thought it would be a good idea to try to make slopes go higher the faster your vehicle goes[20:43:47] <Donitzo> to slow you down and add a bit of fun[20:46:58] *** grim001 <grim001!~grim001@ip70-173-209-228.lv.lv.cox.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[20:48:36] *** freestyledork is now known as freefork_afk[20:49:19] *** code_zombie <code_zombie!~code_zomb@2605:a601:aa1:da00:e108:69d:f38d:9b70> has joined #gamedev[20:49:41] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.127.103.165> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[20:52:29] <brainzap> anno in 2019, you build weed farms and 2 room apartments to house software developers[20:55:17] <unpulsed> there should be a clothing brand named softwear[20:57:01] <cantelope> ![20:57:26] <cantelope> https://wearsoftwear.com/[20:57:30] <cantelope> been done[20:58:12] <unpulsed> that generic site tho[21:01:08] <LunarJetman> that site is awful; wouldn't be surprised if it was a scam[21:01:41] <unpulsed> not really awful, just super generic[21:02:04] <LunarJetman> some of the links don't work and there are spelling mistakes and the male models for the t shirts are egregious[21:03:10] <unpulsed> well. fuck if i care. gotta walk them dogs in the snow nao[21:03:49] * unpulsed disappears into the fog[21:12:33] *** Groogy <Groogy!~Groogy@90-227-38-205-no61.tbcn.telia.com> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)[21:14:58] <Twipply> I made the mistake of trying to follow a guide on youtube about creating a game engine[21:15:10] <Twipply> Now I'm sat waiting a week every time for a new episode to tell me what to do[21:16:27] <brainzap> just make the game[21:16:38] <Twipply> Dunno how[21:24:26] <aeth> Twipply: This is all you need to get started. http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/contents.html[21:24:41] <aeth> Not sufficiently exhaustive of a resource to tell you everything, but it tells you almost every major part[21:24:46] <aeth> So you can google the rest[21:26:12] <aeth> You also need to know that for graphics you should use OpenGL for Vulkan (most portable options) and for portable windows/input something like SDL2 (there are probably 6 or so viable competitors, but SDL2 is the largest in the category)[21:26:26] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.127.103.165> has joined #gamedev[21:26:26] <aeth> s/OpenGL for Vulkan/OpenGL or Vulkan/[21:26:32] <Twipply> I'm using OpenGL[21:26:34] <aeth> If it's your first engine, I'd recommend OpenGL[21:27:28] <aeth> The main advantage of Vulkan (other than performance) is that you could use newer rendering techniques on macOS because you could port it with MoltenVK. macOS has an ancient version of OpenGL, which is now even deprecated. Personally, I don't plan on supporting macOS because of this (I want my modern GL).[21:28:01] <Twipply> Regular OpenGL is fine for now I feel[21:28:20] <aeth> As long as by regular you mean 3.3[21:28:28] <Twipply> More like OpenGL 4[21:28:33] <aeth> pre-3.x things are so different the skills won't really translate as much as you think[21:28:40] <Twipply> I don't think I've used anything 4 exclusive though[21:28:43] <Twipply> but who knows[21:29:30] *** freefork_afk is now known as freestyledork[21:29:41] <Twipply> I think my issues are mostly related to not knowing what to write[21:29:51] <aeth> http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/contents.html[21:29:51] <Twipply> Actually writing the code is the easy part[21:30:07] <aeth> The patterns are pretty simple. Then you fill it with a simple scripting system and move onto the hard part: content[21:31:36] <aeth> ("scripting system" could be anything from Lua to the same language you're using to implement the rest to configuration files to anything else)[21:31:58] <Twipply> I've used lua stuff from C before, so I'd likely use that[21:32:01] <Twipply> if and when I get that far[21:32:45] <aeth> The important part is that certain times (model these as ticks, 10 ms is a good time for a tick imo) and locations (and, if turn based, turns) are associated with events. I mean, AoE II's visual editor has the basics there even if it's painfully slow to use by modern standards. Triggers on Conditions then Effects.[21:33:34] <Twipply> More fundamental issues right now than scripting[21:33:46] *** domenkk <domenkk!uid25676@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ujcimzdovtrfzyha> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[21:33:51] <Twipply> Just the usual architecture stuff[21:34:02] <aeth> You should be thinking about what is the minimum you need to do to get to the scripting and assets (models+textures or sprites) part, though[21:34:15] <aeth> You can, once you have something functional, fill in gaps later, like fancy shaders.[21:34:21] <Twipply> I have models rendering on screen already[21:34:24] *** perplexity <perplexity!~perplexed@unaffiliated/perplexity> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:34:25] <Twipply> Although I didn't do textures[21:34:43] <aeth> Oh, oops, there's a third component that's pretty key. Controls.[21:34:52] *** perplexity <perplexity!~perplexed@unaffiliated/perplexity> has joined #gamedev[21:34:52] <Twipply> I just have trouble knowing how I should organise things between the core engine and what the engine user sees[21:35:00] <aeth> Have controls, assets, and scripting and you have a very basic, probably textless, "game"[21:36:06] <aeth> Twipply: When there's only one engine user it doesn't matter, you can freely move things back and forth as the game develops. The question of the interface is for when you get the second game.[21:38:28] <Twipply> I realise I can change things up as I go along[21:38:34] <Twipply> but I'd still rather do it the 'right' way to start with[21:38:39] <aeth> Imo, you shouldn't be thinking in terms of game and game engine, you should be thinking in terms of building a game "from scratch" with a bunch of code that you will eventually reuse into an engine or framework when future games come.[21:39:09] <aeth> So write it modular enough that you can shuffle things around without currently knowing where to draw the line.[21:40:56] <aeth> And the thing about a game engine is that you *will* do things the wrong way no matter how much you prepare and how hard you try. Write it modularly enough that you'll be able to replace the older, incorrect parts. It's just too large to write it correctly in one pass.[21:41:40] <unpulsed> write five game engines one after another[21:41:48] <unpulsed> chances are the fifth will be somewhat consistent :3[21:41:59] <LunarJetman> aeth: that is true for anything non-trivial not just game engines.[21:42:00] <Twipply> Can't write 5 if you can't write 1 first[21:42:13] <unpulsed> Twipply, it's the old catch-22[21:42:15] <aeth> unpulsed: If you write it correctly, you'll never have to write a new game engine, even though by the end you might have rewritten each component five times.[21:42:20] <unpulsed> Twipply, like compilers compiling themselves[21:42:22] <unpulsed> just do it[21:42:34] <unpulsed> aeth, eh, a game engine isn't necessarily generalized[21:42:38] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[21:42:54] <unpulsed> you can call something a game engine when it only allows you to write a very specific 2D platformer type[21:42:57] <aeth> The thing is, if it was something other than a game engine, which is massive even for a very simple and specialized engine, you might want to just rewrite it when you learn more. But you can't do that for an engine because there's too much there.[21:43:33] <aeth> unpulsed: A useful game engine is, at a minimum, usable for multiple games in the same genre with similar art styles and control schemes, though.[21:43:44] <LunarJetman> by game engine I assume you mean a generic game engine like Unity or UE[21:43:55] <unpulsed> aeth, but that's a rather limiting definition[21:44:03] <Twipply> I'm going for something like that sure LunarJetman[21:44:11] <LunarJetman> me too Twipply[21:44:18] <aeth> LunarJetman: You can't build Unity. You could build Unreal Engine, if by Unreal Engine you mean first write an FPS engine for a game called Unreal, then make it a more general purpose engine over decades. :-p[21:44:21] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has quit IRC (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1)[21:44:35] <LunarJetman> I am making something like Unity[21:44:39] <LunarJetman> and UE[21:44:42] <LunarJetman> in C++[21:44:52] <aeth> Unity is what you get when you start with massive investment money up front for a general purpose engine project. Unreal is more of a bootstrapping approach (even if Unreal did get massive upfront investment, idk, but what I'm saying is that you could get to where UE is by bootstrapping)[21:44:53] <Twipply> I could write the code to do the thing I wanna do, I just don't much want to finally have the appropriate episode of the video tutorial thing come out[21:44:58] <Twipply> and then be like oh so I wrote total garbage did I[21:45:03] <Twipply> and then just rewrite it in the 'correct' way[21:45:06] <unpulsed> what's the distinction between a game toolkit and a game engine? :P[21:45:10] <unpulsed> pro tip: it's arbitrary[21:45:22] <LunarJetman> I disagree that you cannot make something like Unity without lots of people/investment[21:45:24] <aeth> unpulsed: Well, framework vs engine.[21:45:29] <unpulsed> aeth, yep[21:45:50] <aeth> unpulsed: I'd have to say that most of what we're talking about as far as 'engines' go are on the line between engines and frameworks because we're probably not going to offer things like elaborate integrated editors.[21:46:04] <LunarJetman> I am actually making an app/game creation framework so I am taking on Qt, Unity and UE.[21:46:08] <Twipply> I really enjoy reading arguments about definitions[21:46:14] <Twipply> It's almost as much fun as language wars[21:46:17] <aeth> LunarJetman: Start by making a game with the engine.[21:46:19] <unpulsed> it's kinda arbitrary. a game engine can mean anything[21:46:23] <LunarJetman> aeth: no.[21:46:24] <aeth> Write the engine for one game, eventually generalize it.[21:46:26] <Twipply> haha C++ is bloated shit hahaha you should use this thing I love with 3 users ever haha[21:46:32] <Twipply> wow but what really IS an engine[21:46:41] <Twipply> guys I did 3 weeks of philosophy lectures once I know everything[21:46:44] <LunarJetman> LOL. why are you telling me what to do? I know what I am doing[21:47:00] <Twipply> Quick someone mention ECS so we can bitch about that too[21:47:10] <unpulsed> LunarJetman, logically speaking, if you don't write your engine for a game then someone will come along and demand feature X[21:47:24] <LunarJetman> I added ECS last year when my project changed scope[21:47:27] <unpulsed> and you'll be stuck in dev hell for the foreseable future[21:47:49] <unpulsed> although i guess that invariably happens[21:47:52] <unpulsed> can't please every1[21:48:05] <unpulsed> best thing to do is make it extensible[21:48:16] <unpulsed> so you can pile your own modules on top and do whatever[21:48:26] <unpulsed> just provide a basic framework if you're going that approach[21:48:40] <unpulsed> usually what i consider to be a game engine is kinda specialized for a certain kind of game[21:48:51] <LunarJetman> although I have actually made a sample game with my engine even though the engine is unfinished[21:48:55] <LunarJetman> my video poker game: https://i.imgur.com/8AdYdYK.png the playing cards are composed of multiple elements (there isn't one texture per card); you can resize window and aspect ratios are maintained: https://i.imgur.com/teemEJ4.png[21:49:09] <LunarJetman> ECS is used to render the playing cards[21:49:36] <aeth> LunarJetman: It's harder to make an engine if you're not making some ambitious games with it. Unity is pretty much the only engine gruop that doesn't also make games afaik. Even Godot's developers make games, just independently of the Godot organization.[21:49:59] <aeth> You essentially have to dogfood your library.[21:50:22] <LunarJetman> I may or may not make some games; I am focused on making the engine; I might make a few more sample games[21:50:45] <unpulsed> kinda like developing a DBS without testing it with an actual DB[21:51:02] <LunarJetman> you don't test with a live DB[21:51:05] <LunarJetman> you test with a test DB[21:51:05] <unpulsed> you can't guarantee the featureset is useful in the real world without testing it[21:51:15] <unpulsed> well, in that same way you could do a test game[21:51:26] <LunarJetman> that is what my video poker game is[21:51:28] <LunarJetman> a test/sample[21:51:35] <LunarJetman> but it is fully functioning[21:51:47] <unpulsed> yeah that's fine, i'm not arguing against it[21:51:51] <LunarJetman> and will be enhanced as I implement engine features[21:52:05] <LunarJetman> I will soon have glow effects sorted so that will be added to the buttons that light up[21:53:56] <LunarJetman> and glow effects has required me to implement render to texture; the features cascade one onto the other: the end product being Unity+[21:54:30] <unpulsed> the point is to have a "real" game tied to the engine[21:54:47] <unpulsed> that's the easiest way to find all the features you may not have thought about while stuck in engine dev metaland[21:55:02] <LunarJetman> that would have to wait until 1.0 has been released; I cannot spend the time on making a large scale game at same time as making the engine[21:55:15] <unpulsed> fair enough[21:55:16] <LunarJetman> but as I said I will be making sample games[21:56:43] <LunarJetman> the video poker game made me think about how to render playing cards easily without just having 52 different textures so I enhanced my ECS meshes with a "patch" concept[21:59:33] <LunarJetman> the video poker game also made me invent maintaining aspect ratio as a layout attribute in the widget library[22:01:00] <WarauSalesman> :D[22:01:04] <WarauSalesman> super video poker[22:01:59] <LunarJetman> but it was fun coding the game logic for determining if the hand as a poker hand[22:02:08] <LunarJetman> was a*[22:03:19] <LunarJetman> https://github.com/i42output/neoGFX/blob/master/examples/games/video_poker/include/video_poker/poker.hpp[22:08:56] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[22:10:50] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.127.103.165> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:13:11] <unpulsed> things i like about LunarJetman's code: he uses tabs[22:13:17] <WarauSalesman> <3 tabs forever[22:13:23] <WarauSalesman> tabs for indentation, spaces for inline comments[22:13:25] <unpulsed> things i don't like about LunarJetman's code: skipping {} for one-line indents[22:13:31] <WarauSalesman> that too[22:13:34] <unpulsed> see lines 154-155[22:13:51] <WarauSalesman> ewww[22:13:53] <WarauSalesman> why?[22:14:05] <unpulsed> idk why github doesn't do 4-space tab width[22:14:12] <unpulsed> so annoying for alignments[22:14:25] <WarauSalesman> also the number of static casts there is making me uncomfortable[22:17:11] <unpulsed> WarauSalesman, i hate when i have to be nice to people that use spaces[22:17:12] <unpulsed> :D[22:17:22] <Prestige> unpulsed: webpages all do 8 space widths for tab characters by default[22:17:38] <unpulsed> Prestige, code isn't a webpage :S[22:18:10] <Prestige> Aren't you talking about the code being displayed on github?[22:18:18] <unpulsed> yes[22:18:25] <unpulsed> obviously they don't just use <pre> and call it a day[22:18:29] <unpulsed> they could easily switch to 4-wide tabs[22:18:34] <unpulsed> which btw should be the default in any sane timeline[22:18:39] <unpulsed> which clearly we're not in[22:18:51] <unpulsed> who thought 8-wide would make a good default, and why[22:18:56] <Prestige> That's what I'm talking about, text on a web page. Default usage is 8 space width for tab characters[22:19:20] <unpulsed> Prestige, but github generates code view with line numbers, syntax highlighting, and other bells and whistles[22:19:24] <WarauSalesman> unpulsed, do you use tabs for inline comments as well? :-/[22:19:25] <unpulsed> they don't just use <pre> lol[22:19:33] <unpulsed> WarauSalesman, no[22:19:35] <WarauSalesman> phew[22:19:39] <WarauSalesman> so we do the same thing <3[22:21:18] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.127.103.165> has joined #gamedev[22:21:28] <unpulsed> hai rindolf[22:22:16] <rindolf> unpulsed: mew[22:22:32] <rindolf> unpulsed: sup?[22:23:44] <unpulsed> rindolf, trying to finish some work stuff while aimlessly arguing on #gamedev about how tabs > spaces[22:23:46] <unpulsed> rindolf, you?[22:24:21] <rindolf> unpulsed: working on a screen rec[22:24:38] <unpulsed> implementation ?[22:24:49] <rindolf> unpulsed: no a screencast[22:25:05] <rindolf> unpulsed: no, a screencast[22:25:11] <rindolf> a recording[22:25:12] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has joined #gamedev[22:25:26] <unpulsed> rindolf, ah[22:25:29] *** ^|SnIpeR|^ <^|SnIpeR|^!~BIeh@cpe-120-146-186-20.static.qld.bigpond.net.au> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[22:25:30] <unpulsed> rindolf, cool[22:29:31] *** Kingsqueee <Kingsqueee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[22:32:53] *** notus <notus!uid244649@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ubncyfkbonzakqfh> has joined #gamedev[22:33:53] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[22:34:09] *** blackpawn <blackpawn!blackpawn@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/blackpawn> has joined #gamedev[22:36:57] *** AlienCat <AlienCat!~Katt@unaffiliated/aliencat> has joined #gamedev[22:43:33] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.147.55.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:48:23] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[22:52:17] <LunarJetman> the problem with tabs is a) they can be any width and b) they tabulate[22:55:01] <solidfox> quantum field theory is like entity-component-system but for physics[22:55:31] <solidfox> i mean for the universe[22:55:56] <unpulsed> lol wut[22:55:56] <unpulsed> :p[22:56:26] <solidfox> unpulsed: are you taling to me?[22:56:31] <unpulsed> aye[22:56:46] <unpulsed> not that i know a lot about QFT[22:56:48] <solidfox> unpulsed: do you know what either quantum field theory or entity component system is?[22:56:53] <unpulsed> yes[22:56:57] <solidfox> which ones[22:57:08] <unpulsed> both :D[22:57:18] <solidfox> "lol wut" isnt a good question, i have to ask so many questions to find out whats confusing you[22:57:20] <unpulsed> however ECS is a trivial concept[22:57:27] <unpulsed> comparing to QFT[22:57:31] <immibis> is ECS well defined?[22:57:40] <LunarJetman> pure ECS is[22:57:41] <unpulsed> for some values of well[22:58:13] <LunarJetman> the ECS in my lib is pure[22:58:15] <unpulsed> solidfox, from what i understand QFT is a generalization of several fields of physics[22:58:30] <unpulsed> LunarJetman, ha. i only work with impure ECS[22:59:35] <LunarJetman> in pure ECS entities are just numeric IDs and the architecture of the ECS follows data oriented design principles[22:59:43] <solidfox> unpulsed: so im thinking like, each point in space is an entity, each field is a component, and the way they transform are the system,[23:00:11] <unpulsed> solidfox, do you actually have a background in physics?[23:00:18] <solidfox> unpulsed: no[23:00:21] <unpulsed> ok :p[23:00:44] <unpulsed> there's no points in space tho[23:00:58] * unpulsed raises left eyebrow 5cm above right eyebrow[23:01:17] <LunarJetman> space doesn't actually exist.[23:01:25] <unpulsed> space is stretchable. "point in space" doesn't refer to anything meaningful[23:01:28] <unpulsed> from what i can tell[23:01:40] <unpulsed> LunarJetman, meh :P[23:01:40] <aeth> tabs, lol. At least Prestige made my point so I didn't have to. Most of the readers of your code will read it in the browser and the defaults in the browser are all trash for tabs[23:01:42] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@88.135.146.138> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[23:01:49] <LunarJetman> unpulsed, MUH not meh :D[23:01:52] <unpulsed> :p[23:02:26] *** AlienCat <AlienCat!~Katt@unaffiliated/aliencat> has left #gamedev ("Arghh too many channels in my list!")[23:02:54] <unpulsed> physics was weird in Newton's times[23:03:00] <unpulsed> modern physics is pretty much a drug trip[23:03:12] * unpulsed moustache-shrugs[23:03:50] <aeth> Modern physics is what happens when you know enough that the simple stuff is too simple, but don't have enough of a budget or technology to do the experiments that could actually tie up the loose ends, and won't for decades/centuries.[23:04:05] <unpulsed> that's assuming loose ends can be tied[23:04:19] <aeth> Which might be impossible, as is the case with what happened in mathematics.[23:04:20] <LunarJetman> MUH ties up all loose ends[23:04:26] <unpulsed> LunarJetman, lol[23:04:36] <unpulsed> so does string theory[23:04:43] <unpulsed> so does quantum loop gravity[23:04:52] <unpulsed> none of which are definite or proven[23:05:00] <unpulsed> and the more you go into either, the more mad you become[23:05:07] <LunarJetman> it isn't possible to prove a scientific theory.[23:05:12] <unpulsed> ah! :P[23:05:17] * unpulsed 's work is done[23:05:34] <LunarJetman> only mathematical theories can be proven therefor MUH.[23:05:46] <aeth> unpulsed: Now that we have the halting problem, Gödel's incompleteness, knowledge of things like uncomputable numbers, etc., there should definitely be a lot less optimism that the loose ends in physics can be solved.[23:06:29] <aeth> Our tools of computers and mathematics have fundamental limitations and that's all we can use to understand the natural world.[23:07:23] <aeth> That being said, it's a bit of a small miracle that computers and mathematics can get as far as they can in understanding the world.[23:07:43] <aeth> There's no reason that the universe should be comprehensible at all, and yet it mostly is.[23:09:11] <solidfox> aeth: but the quantum eraser doesnt make any sense[23:09:12] <LunarJetman> I don't believe string theory is a theory.[23:09:39] <LunarJetman> I think it is a hypothesis.[23:09:50] <aeth> That's correct.[23:09:52] <LunarJetman> just like MUH is[23:10:45] <unpulsed> solidfox, nothing in QM makes any sense[23:10:46] <unpulsed> lol[23:11:01] <solidfox> i think that tiny capsules with convenient items like a car, bike, house, food, or clothes is possible[23:11:21] <aeth> unpulsed: Don't try to make sense of QM, just do the calculations. We probably will not be able to solve the fundamental issues in our lifetimes.[23:11:25] <aeth> imo[23:12:27] <solidfox> just take the spectral map of a shirt for example, and then create a tiny screen with slits in the positions of the spectal black regions[23:13:25] <solidfox> send stuff thru the screen when a button is pushed, spill a big smoke screen so the result isnt measured by any observer tools, and then it will follow the shirt wave pattern to create a shirt[23:13:56] <immibis> like a hologram but with particles of whatever instead of light[23:14:04] <solidfox> immibis: yeah[23:14:10] <immibis> fun fact: cutting a hologram in half doesn't make it only display half the picture. instead it halves the resolution.[23:14:19] <solidfox> immibis: virtual particles can be created on the fly however[23:14:23] <LunarJetman> the smoke screen doesn't help[23:14:33] <solidfox> and when you push the button again the virtual particles are destoryed[23:14:38] <unpulsed> immibis, yeah, that's a pretty weird property of holograms[23:14:41] <unpulsed> they're infinitely divisible[23:14:47] <LunarJetman> the wave equation doesn't collapse until it is observed[23:15:15] <LunarJetman> also, I have no idea what I am talking about.[23:15:41] *** veridiam <veridiam!~veridiam@S010674d02b5e3c80.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[23:15:45] <solidfox> LunarJetman: yes when you try to measure which slit your materials go thru, the photons used to measure interfere with the result[23:15:56] <solidfox> but the weird part is when the quantum eraser is used.[23:16:08] <solidfox> that happens if you measure after the result was supposed to have been made.[23:16:09] <LunarJetman> I suspect you have no idea what you are talking about either.[23:16:14] <unpulsed> LunarJetman, "measured" is a better word[23:16:20] <solidfox> well i watched like 25 hours of science videos[23:16:21] <unpulsed> observed gets wishy washy quick[23:16:23] <solidfox> so yeah i have no idea[23:16:29] <unpulsed> solidfox, LOL[23:16:34] <unpulsed> that education[23:16:52] <LunarJetman> 25 hours of youtube videos? random youtube videos are of variable credibility[23:17:06] <solidfox> pbs spacetime mostly[23:17:16] <unpulsed> watch feynman lectures[23:17:25] <unpulsed> they're good[23:17:54] <solidfox> i think im done[23:18:03] <solidfox> im gonna watch cat videos from now on[23:18:07] <unpulsed> most physics deals with the question of shortest path :D[23:18:14] <LunarJetman> the many worlds interpretation holds the most water IMO[23:18:16] <unpulsed> it's really mathematical pathfinding[23:18:44] <unpulsed> LunarJetman, i like the copenhagen[23:19:10] <solidfox> unpulsed: you believe that there is no reality outside of observation?[23:19:10] <LunarJetman> every quantum event is a branch in a tree creating a new universe; only when you observe the event(s) do you fall into that universe[23:19:36] <unpulsed> solidfox, something like that[23:19:44] <unpulsed> things are in superposition until meaasured[23:20:08] <solidfox> strange[23:20:46] <LunarJetman> yeah you don't exist unless I am observing you[23:21:16] <solidfox> LunarJetman: no its about measurement[23:21:36] <LunarJetman> I disagree.[23:21:41] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@rrcs-24-123-119-190.central.biz.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[23:21:49] <unpulsed> LunarJetman, s/observing/measuring/[23:22:00] <LunarJetman> I still disagree.[23:22:09] <unpulsed> well, that's your problem[23:22:09] <unpulsed> :D[23:22:16] <solidfox> LunarJetman: read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)[23:22:18] <solidfox> LunarJetman: it doesn't get weird until the quantum eraser[23:22:29] <LunarJetman> I continue to disagree and it is your problem if you can't handle that fact.[23:22:35] <solidfox> LunarJetman: the fact that the result changes because you measure it actually makes sense[23:22:46] <unpulsed> LunarJetman, i don't even agree with myself half of the time[23:22:54] <LunarJetman> it is observation not measurement[23:22:57] <solidfox> whats weird is when you measure after the result was supposed to have been made, and it changes the result.[23:23:08] <LunarJetman> measurement being a subset of observation[23:23:28] <solidfox> LunarJetman: in physics an observer is just something that makes a measurement, it has nothing to do with conciousness[23:24:00] <LunarJetman> that is an assertion that you cannot back up with evidence so I can dismiss it[23:24:54] <solidfox> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_(quantum_physics)[23:25:06] * unpulsed notes that ##physics would tell us all we should stop talking[23:25:58] <solidfox> unpulsed: yeah i tried to avoid going there to ramble.[23:26:03] <unpulsed> :D[23:26:17] <LunarJetman> it is the difference between the physical nature of observation (the system is effected by the introduction of photons) and wave function collapse[23:26:37] <solidfox> eggsactly.[23:26:46] <solidfox> wait what[23:26:52] <solidfox> i thought they were the same[23:27:21] <solidfox> the double slit experiment showed wave function collapse, because of the effect of observation via measuring device.[23:27:42] <solidfox> then again that doesnt explain the quantum eraser[23:27:47] <solidfox> so yeah i guess its a little different[23:28:12] <unpulsed> Qm is mostly about probability[23:28:31] <unpulsed> copenhagen interpretation says that outcome of measurement will tend towards something[23:28:40] <unpulsed> so if you look at a cow it's 99.99999999% that you will se a cow[23:28:48] <unpulsed> but ever few infinities you may see an apache helicopter[23:28:53] <unpulsed> weird but that's how it goes[23:29:09] <solidfox> is that different than hallucination[23:29:14] <unpulsed> and for schrodinger's cat the probability is straight 50-50[23:29:19] <unpulsed> solidfox, somewhat[23:29:34] *** RandomCouch <RandomCouch!~RandomSof@207.219.200.115> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[23:30:14] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@rrcs-24-123-119-186.central.biz.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[23:30:58] *** grim001 <grim001!~grim001@ip70-173-209-228.lv.lv.cox.net> has joined #gamedev[23:31:05] <solidfox> unpulsed: if you were to observe which photons go into which eye would the image on your retina change[23:31:38] <unpulsed> single photon goes into both :D[23:31:44] <unpulsed> solidfox, i really don't know[23:31:55] <solidfox> they go into both until you observe it..[23:32:00] <solidfox> then they go into one or the other[23:32:08] <solidfox> and the wave function collapses[23:32:13] <unpulsed> not necessarily[23:32:15] <solidfox> turning from a cow into... the truth?[23:32:19] *** Atojesi <Atojesi!2eb6bfdb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.46.182.191.219> has joined #gamedev[23:32:27] <unpulsed> single-photon double slit experiments have proven that a single photon can go into two places easily[23:32:30] * solidfox googles where can i buy a cow[23:32:33] <unpulsed> and even interfere with itself[23:32:37] <unpulsed> talk about weird[23:32:48] <solidfox> unpulsed: yes i saw that on youtube[23:33:22] <solidfox> what if this is just a bug, or optimization in our universe[23:33:27] <solidfox> our simulated universe[23:33:57] <solidfox> (although i remember an article saying the universe can't be simulated because it requires too much computational complexity)[23:35:15] <unpulsed> eh :p[23:35:28] <unpulsed> i've seen a formal argument for simulation hypothesis and it was somewhat good[23:35:42] <unpulsed> there's this dude what's-his-name that does a good job at formalizing the argument[23:35:47] <unpulsed> however i still say it's hogwash[23:35:53] <solidfox> yeah i like the real world[23:36:12] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[23:36:17] <unpulsed> it anything is a bug it's deja-vu[23:36:18] <unpulsed> :p[23:36:19] <LunarJetman> if you are referring to MUH the bloke's name is Max Tegmark[23:36:30] <LunarJetman> otherwise you are referring to Elon Musk who is an idiot[23:36:52] <unpulsed> nick bostrom[23:37:17] <unpulsed> compelling formalization of the ancestral simulation hypothesis[23:37:18] <solidfox> if hes an idiot why is he making rockets, electric cars, solar roof tiles, and solar batteries[23:37:20] <unpulsed> but again i don't believe it[23:37:33] <unpulsed> i'd say elon musk is a highly intelligent dumbass[23:37:33] <unpulsed> xD[23:37:40] <solidfox> unpulsed: fair enough[23:37:44] <unpulsed> i'd like him more if he were more humble[23:37:55] <unpulsed> great inventors and scientists always were[23:37:58] <unpulsed> with some very rare exceptions[23:38:00] *** BlueProtoman <BlueProtoman!~BlueProto@cpe-69-203-129-1.nyc.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[23:38:26] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has joined #gamedev[23:43:53] <unpulsed> musk has some redeeming qualities[23:44:01] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[23:44:04] <unpulsed> i hate how he's spreading panic over superintelligent AI though[23:44:09] <unpulsed> it'll never happen, lol[23:44:19] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[23:44:26] <unpulsed> we've barely scratched the surface of AI[23:45:32] <solidfox> yeah[23:45:56] <solidfox> we dont have AI we have machine learning, which is like turning a bunch of knobs basically[23:46:12] <solidfox> unpulsed: didju hear about the MIT robot that was made to create its own self model?[23:46:20] <unpulsed> just look at AI in games and you'll get the full picture of just how primitive our AI is[23:46:27] <unpulsed> actors getting stuck on corners or rocks[23:46:28] <unpulsed> gg AI[23:46:34] <unpulsed> solidfox, nope[23:47:42] <unpulsed> also, the best way to disprove general AI is as follows: we don't know wtf intelligence is[23:48:09] <unpulsed> without formalizing it we're in a dark maze with no light, trying to get somewhere[23:48:23] <solidfox> https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-01/cuso-asc012819.php[23:48:30] <unpulsed> although alpha zero is impressive[23:48:52] <unpulsed> solidfox, i'll check it out bit later[23:48:55] <unpulsed> bookmarked[23:50:27] <solidfox> Lipson, who is also a member of the Data Science Institute, notes that self-imaging is key to enabling robots to move away from the confinements of so-called "narrow-AI" towards more general abilities. "This is perhaps what a newborn child does in its crib, as it learns what it is," he says. "We conjecture that this advantage may have also been the evolutionary origin of self-awareness in humans. While our[23:50:29] <solidfox> robot's ability to imagine itself is still crude compared to humans, we believe that this ability is on the path to machine self-awareness."[23:51:05] <unpulsed> wishful thinking[23:51:37] <unpulsed> self-reference just creates an unstable system[23:51:46] <unpulsed> repeat it long enough and you'll get nothing but chaos as output[23:53:19] *** babuloseo <babuloseo!~babuloseo@unaffiliated/babuloseo> has joined #gamedev[23:54:28] <unpulsed> my highly unorthodox opinion is that intelligence isn't formalizable and it exists outside of reality we're able to perceive[23:54:35] <unpulsed> thus, general AI isn't possible[23:54:48] <unpulsed> however we can probably get close to it and make something that behaves like a human[23:54:56] <unpulsed> but it'll never actually be aware of itself in the same way we are[23:55:20] * unpulsed escapes before some reductionist comes by and starts beating him with a plank[23:58:08] <Cahaan> a lot of philosophers tend to share your opinion[23:58:26] <unpulsed> idealists :D[23:59:09] *** Mia <Mia!~Mia@unaffiliated/mia> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[23:59:11] <unpulsed> i've thought about this problem for the longest while and i can't find a way out of it[23:59:19] <cantelope> https://codegolf.tk/a/368[23:59:20] <unpulsed> my conclusion is that reductionism leads to absurd conclusions[23:59:45] <unpulsed> cantelope, the borg!