January 27, 2019 
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January 27, 2019 [00:09:23] <pulse> or you could just not dev on a laptop[00:09:28] <pulse> sounds painful[00:10:00] <pulse> 3 monitors, mech keyboard, a beefy huge tower with good components, a nice precise mouse ought to do it[00:10:37] <pulse> a cat in your lap is a nice bonus of course[00:11:12] <aeth> pulse: careful, it's apparently toxic to point out that you get better hardware for much cheaper that way[00:11:35] <pulse> the only reason to dev on a laptop i can see is that maybe you move around a lot[00:11:42] <lurchman> pulse: Desktop is totally the way to go. A nice laptop can be good for travel or those with limited space though[00:11:47] <pulse> yeah[00:12:18] <aeth> pulse: Only reason I can think of to dev on a laptop is if you're working in one of those coworking spaces (or just a coffee shop or something) in which case the added productivity of the location (if you really can't get work done at home) outweighs the worse dev hardware[00:12:30] <pulse> problem with beefy laptops in general is they tend to throttle pretty fast[00:12:34] <LunarJetman2> I don't always code at home at my desktop so I need a fucking laptop to dev on, fucktards.[00:12:43] <pulse> so the perf on paper really doesn't match the actual perf, usually[00:13:04] <pulse> aeth, yeah, if space is an issue or you move about a lot, then i can see that as the option[00:13:10] <lurchman> pulse: i've actually had a pretty good experience with high-powered laptops. Seen them run Vive Pro for extended periods of time, high cpu+gpu utilization, no problem[00:13:17] <pulse> LunarJetman2, why are you getting so angry[00:13:18] <pulse> lol[00:13:24] <pulse> does this hurt your feelings or something[00:13:25] <pulse> wtf...[00:13:27] <aeth> LunarJetman2: The advantage of high end desktop + battery-optimized laptop is that the latter gives you a good minimum req baseline, though[00:13:42] <pulse> lurchman, which brand if you don't mind me asking[00:14:33] <LunarJetman2> aeth: I have other laptops for compatibility/performance testing; I don't dev on them[00:14:33] <aeth> lurchman: For VR on a laptop I'd probably try to go for an external GPU. Better cooling and probably better price, and you don't need as beefy of a GPU for outside of VR.[00:14:49] <lurchman> "Eluktronics", don't remember the exact model number, but GTX 1070, i7 7700[00:15:07] <lurchman> Have had clients that need portability and it's ended up running pretty flawlessly[00:15:10] <pulse> first time ever hearing of that brand *shrug*[00:15:16] <lurchman> Yeah it's not a super common one[00:15:21] <pulse> i was thinking of getting myself either some high end lenovo or asus[00:15:24] <pulse> only two brands i trust[00:15:26] <pulse> with laptops[00:15:39] <lurchman> Also had a decent experience with the high-end ASUS ones but super heavy and bulky. More portable than a desktop but kills my shoulder at the airport[00:15:48] <pulse> hah[00:16:16] <lurchman> I mean it's impressive what they fit a 1080 into, but I would never use one for traveling by choice[00:16:22] <LunarJetman2> in case you haven't noticed nVIDIA don't do sub-par mobile versions of their cards anymore: the card in my laptop is a 1060 GTX[00:16:32] <pulse> LunarJetman2, my 1060 outperforms it[00:16:33] <pulse> :D[00:16:37] <lurchman> Yes and I'm thankful for that[00:16:41] <pulse> on the desktop[00:16:46] <pulse> airflow ftw[00:16:56] <LunarJetman2> plenty of airflow on my laptop[00:16:59] <pulse> yeah, right[00:17:04] <LunarJetman2> yea, right[00:17:09] <LunarJetman2> stop being toxic fucktard[00:17:09] <pulse> that's what i said, yeah right[00:17:15] <pulse> LunarJetman2, ...[00:17:20] <pulse> LunarJetman2, do you have some emotional problems or something?[00:17:25] <pulse> LunarJetman2, maybe it's time to see a psychologist ...[00:17:42] <pulse> like, how can you take this subject so personally[00:17:43] <R2robot> he's also a member of the Trio of Toxicity in this channel[00:17:46] <lurchman> Maybe in super specialized applications but a 1080 has twice the shader cores, are flow won't fix that in most cases[00:17:50] <lurchman> air flow*[00:18:03] <pulse> your laptop GPU can't breathe the same way a desktop can[00:18:09] <pulse> it's just not physically possible[00:18:11] <pulse> it's still a good card[00:18:16] <pulse> but a desktop one outperforms it by quite a bit[00:18:34] <lurchman> 1060 is a good card but I doubt it[00:18:35] <R2robot> i used to have to point a fan at my laptop so I could play WoW[00:18:45] <pulse> heck even a full card in a mini ITX case outperforms it[00:18:46] <lurchman> I've run tests and laptop 1080 will beat a desktop 1070 no problem, as it should[00:18:53] <lurchman> maybe you had a really bad gaming laptop?[00:19:03] <pulse> lurchman, compare to 1080 on the desktop :D[00:19:15] <pulse> 1070 is quite a bit weaker than a 1080[00:19:34] <lurchman> Yeah - so is a 1060, a 1060 isn't going to beat a 1080 just by better airflow ;)[00:19:48] <lurchman> Which unless i'm misunderstanding is what you were saying?[00:19:50] <pulse> no but 1060 on a desktop will outperform a 1060 in a laptop any day[00:19:57] <pulse> lurchman, not at all[00:20:01] <lurchman> oh I completely misunderstood[00:20:07] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:8812:383:e86c:64ca> has quit IRC (Quit: The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing)[00:20:18] <lurchman> yeah - you have way more room to overclock on a desktop, and just let things work easier in general[00:20:21] <pulse> don't get me wrong i think it's amazing that you can have a 1080 in a laptop[00:20:22] <lurchman> no argument there[00:20:32] <pulse> but it's definitely not the same experience[00:20:33] <aeth> External GPU is the solution. At least once it's common enough it should be cheaper and faster than a built-in GPU since it can be larger and cooled better.[00:20:47] <pulse> aeth, meh, i'd rather have an internal one, unless i actually really needed that extra perf[00:20:48] <lurchman> I misread what you wrote, thought you were saying a 1060 in desktop would beat a 1080 laptop![00:20:59] <pulse> external cards are a pain in the arse[00:21:06] <aeth> Of course, if your game makes use of the CPU heavily, a high end desktop CPU will run circles around a power-consumption-optimized laptop so EGPU only solves the common types of games.[00:21:30] <pulse> yeah[00:21:35] <lurchman> EGPU must have such a narrow use-case. Less portable than a laptop, more expensive than a desktop. I'm sure for some people it makes sense htough[00:21:36] <aeth> pulse: Well if it's e.g. for VR it could make sense because VR is going to have to have a bit of a setup anyway.[00:21:41] <pulse> all high end laptops simply throttle[00:21:50] <pulse> which is why i said perf on the paper won't match the actual perf[00:22:20] <LunarJetman2> my laptop has heatsinks and fans; what else do need for cooling GPU? eh? eh?[00:22:22] <lurchman> Heat pipes and big fans these days though. The throttling isn't half as bad as it used to be[00:22:27] <pulse> LunarJetman2, physical space[00:22:31] <pulse> lol.[00:22:41] <pulse> ever opened a laptop?[00:22:46] <pulse> it's crammed as hell in there[00:22:53] <aeth> eh, I'm guessing you're paying at least $3000 for a $1500 desktop experience, though.[00:23:18] <LunarJetman2> https://www.razer.com/gb-en/gaming-laptops/razer-blade[00:23:18] <aeth> High margins on that kind of laptop quality, bundled screen, etc.[00:24:07] <pulse> the thing that bothers me about laptops in general is they're hard to fix[00:24:23] <LunarJetman2> my first gaming laptop, an alienware, was referred to as a "desktop replacement" laptop and I can assure that airflow was not a problem[00:24:29] <pulse> i can take the throttling but upgradability is a real issue with me[00:24:42] <aeth> Upgrading bothers me. You'll probably want to upgrade your GPU about twice as often as your CPU/mobo/RAM and you basically never need to upgrade your desktop keyboard/mouse[00:25:17] <pulse> i also dislike the keys on a laptop[00:25:19] <aeth> (Plus, your monitor lifecycle is very independent from your desktop computer's lifecycle, but a laptop requires a monitor.)[00:25:35] <aeth> s/a monitor/its own monitor/[00:25:36] <pulse> i believe only one laptop so far has a true mech keyboard, right[00:25:42] <pulse> acer predator[00:25:43] <pulse> :D[00:25:56] <pulse> probably weighs 100kg too[00:26:17] <aeth> But... laptops are great. Even if you're at your desktop, they give you an extra screen and an extra computer. Doing something that takes 100% (or more) of your CPU and almost all of your RAM? You can still use a hungry web browser, just on your laptop[00:26:31] <aeth> Even if I was laptop-only I'd probably want two laptops in some cases.[00:26:53] <aeth> (I mean, the other option would be to make web browsers not so resource hungry but... that's the situation we're in today.)[00:27:23] <pulse> there's some lightweight options out there[00:27:34] <pulse> if you just need to browse docs or whatever you can use one of those[00:27:40] <aeth> But the compatible ones are really just webkit under the hood and webkit is the real offender[00:27:49] <aeth> Without my laptop I'd basically have to use my phone for docs[00:27:57] <pulse> a tablet comes in handy too[00:28:10] <pulse> how come a tablet's battery lasts way longer than a laptops[00:28:12] <pulse> what's the logic there[00:28:23] <aeth> pulse: ARM vs. x86-64[00:28:26] <pulse> ah, right[00:28:27] <aeth> pulse: But it's not that much longer[00:28:36] <pulse> in my experience it's at least twice as long :s[00:28:37] <aeth> You can get laptops with like 13+ hour battery life[00:28:49] <pulse> yeah. still quite low tho[00:29:02] <aeth> You can get tablets with < 13+ hour battery life :-p[00:29:08] <pulse> equally true[00:29:19] <pulse> my samsung lasts for like 2 days with a lot of use[00:29:24] <pulse> not too bad[00:29:29] <aeth> So really it's like [ [ ] ] where the left [] is laptop and the right [] is tablet[00:29:36] <aeth> And the main offender is x86-64 and the OS[00:29:45] <pulse> yeah, that's reasonable[00:31:06] *** rtypo <rtypo!~alex@unaffiliated/rtypo> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)[00:31:13] <o][o> why laptops are great?[00:31:18] <o][o> they kill people[00:31:24] <o][o> worst ergonomy ever :([00:31:33] <pulse> you can carry them around[00:31:36] <o][o> yeah[00:31:39] <o][o> then you die[00:31:41] <pulse> lol[00:31:49] <pulse> really i find the desktop way, way more comfortable[00:31:52] <o][o> ofc[00:31:57] <o][o> they are ergonomic[00:32:03] <pulse> i'd almost rather carry the desktop around[00:32:03] <o][o> get a good chair, set your table right[00:32:04] <o][o> done[00:32:08] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.124.99.198> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[00:32:16] <o][o> bigger screens, decent keyboards..[00:32:26] <pulse> yeah i'm super spoiled by mech keyboards[00:32:27] <o][o> laptop keyboards = SHIT[00:32:53] <LunarJetman2> fucking gaming laptops are fucking great[00:33:00] <pulse> LunarJetman2, ok, we get it[00:33:03] <pulse> you love your laptop[00:33:04] <pulse> it's ok[00:33:08] <pulse> we like laptops too[00:33:10] <pulse> we're having a conversation[00:33:16] <pulse> you know, weighting ups and downs of things[00:33:20] <pulse> weighing*[00:33:27] <aeth> Eh, it's a sliding scale of portability of phone tablet laptop desktop. I don't currently have a tablet (I have one but it's too old to run things these days, unfortunately, thanks to software bloat), but each device has its use[00:33:51] <pulse> then again, a tablet + one of those tenkeyless mech keyboards may be a way[00:33:53] <aeth> Portable and samll means convenient, fixed and large means good price for the power[00:34:07] <pulse> probably more comfy than most laptops[00:34:26] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[00:34:28] <LunarJetman2> I do my main dev on my desktop PC; I did an unboxing video of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UPran-0Qlk[00:34:39] <aeth> The problem with tablets is that the software is awful. Most things are mobile-optimized, and the mobile ecosystem is almost entirely quantity-over-quality crap anyway.[00:35:03] <pulse> windows tablets are great[00:35:04] <pulse> :D[00:35:05] *** cnidario <cnidario!~dont@cli-5b7ec6e9.ast.adamo.es> has joined #gamedev[00:35:09] <pulse> </unpopular opinions>[00:35:15] <aeth> I'd probably like a tablet with a real Linux distro on it way more than an Android tablet for everything except games, which are undiscoverable now on mobile now that the crap rises to the top[00:35:27] <pulse> you can do that[00:35:45] <pulse> pretty sure it's not that hard[00:36:14] <aeth> Well I know that Linux distros *try* to support mobile given that GNOME has been absolute trash for a decade now for keyboard+mouse because of its large, simple, touch-focused UI[00:36:21] <aeth> s/mobile/tablets/[00:36:43] <pulse> gnome makes me want to slap its UX designers[00:36:43] <myke> good luck lol[00:37:04] <pulse> "here's a list of 10000 aps in a grid. good luck!"[00:37:10] <pulse> :S[00:37:20] <myke> laptop cpus are still faster[00:37:31] <myke> go ahead and build a java project on a laptop vs a tablet and let me know how that works out for you[00:38:00] <LunarJetman2> Java is for idiots.[00:38:07] <myke> shots fired![00:38:14] <pulse> LunarJetman2, wow you sure seem to be sparkling with personal insults today :p[00:38:17] <pulse> are you drunk or something?[00:38:19] <myke> idiots who like deliverables lol[00:38:24] <lurchman> LOL LunarJetman2 you are the most "opinionated" person I've encountered on IRC today[00:38:34] <aeth> myke: as I said, it's an issue of size/portability/battery which means the solution is really to have multiple devices imo[00:38:39] <myke> agreed[00:38:50] <myke> tho i never really seem to have a need for a tablet[00:38:54] <pulse> you can still probably dev on a tablet, just not with java, lol[00:38:55] <myke> but i have 2 laptops[00:39:05] <pulse> like, writing python scripts or even C++ stuff may work out for some scenarios[00:39:13] <pulse> i like the idea of just carrying a screen and a keyboard, heh[00:39:15] <aeth> A reasonable 5"ish phone, a 7"ish to 10"ish tablet, a 12"ish laptop, and a gigantic monster of a desktop can and should be used in combination.[00:39:26] <pulse> even writing JS may not be that bad tbh[00:39:38] <LunarJetman2> python was designed by clueless person; significant whitespace is egregious[00:39:43] <pulse> LunarJetman2, python is great[00:39:46] <pulse> you're the clueless one[00:39:48] <immibis> LunarJetman2 was designed by a clueless person[00:39:48] <LunarJetman2> no[00:39:50] <pulse> yes[00:39:51] <myke> i have a phone, a macbook air, a large pc laptop with 17" screen, and a desktop[00:39:56] <myke> i never use my tablets[00:40:00] <pulse> you're full of personal opinions, none of which matter[00:40:06] <pulse> python is used all day, every day[00:40:06] <aeth> LunarJetman2: Significant whitespace is amazing, it's just that Python chooses the wrong whitespace. "x + y * z" is great. Forbid "x+y*z"[00:40:08] <pulse> it's popular as fuck[00:40:18] <pulse> and it's great for prototyping[00:40:28] <lurchman> Seriously. Gotta me pragmatic. Just about everything has its uses and nothing is black and white[00:40:30] <LunarJetman2> just because it is popular doesn't mean it is good: most people are idiots[00:40:31] <pulse> it's also comparable to pseudocode somewhat[00:40:37] <pulse> LunarJetman2, does that include you?[00:40:42] <myke> ^^[00:40:50] <myke> LunarJetman2: link your game[00:40:55] <lurchman> I've used everything from real-time code generation to JavaScript in the same product[00:41:02] <LunarJetman2> myke: I am not making a game[00:41:05] <lurchman> No point in writing off a language[00:41:08] <myke> lol![00:41:15] <LunarJetman2> myke: I am making a game engine[00:41:18] <myke> ok well i use java and i've made 2 games in it[00:41:20] <pulse> myke, i tend to use my tablet for listening to podcasts, lol[00:41:25] <aeth> pulse: Python's only comparable to pseudocode if you don't do any functional programming. Its designer was very anti-FP and fought against a lot of very reasonable things. Plus, Python has trash lambda syntax that's only usable for one-liners.[00:41:28] <pulse> it really shines with that :p[00:41:32] <myke> LunarJetman2: people who make engines instead of games are idiots.[00:41:37] <pulse> aeth, yeah, it's not great with FP[00:41:49] <LunarJetman2> myke: that is the most retarded thing I have read today[00:41:58] <pulse> but it is pretty good for translating imperative thought into code more or less instantly[00:41:59] <immibis> LunarJetman2: that is the most retarded thing I have read today[00:42:01] <aeth> pulse: I think at this point, C++ might be better at FP than Python, and if that's not true yet, it will be within the next 10 years.[00:42:19] <lurchman> LunarJetman2: I don't think he actually hates engine devs, more just pointing out how stupid the black/white opinions are[00:42:33] <pulse> ^[00:42:34] <LunarJetman2> myke: I will be making several games once my engine is complete.[00:42:38] <myke> everyone's making an engine and no one will use them[00:42:40] <myke> pointless[00:42:43] <myke> yeah sure lol[00:42:54] <immibis> engines are worth something because people can make games on them[00:43:00] <immibis> if you don't make a game on your engine how do you know people can make games on it[00:43:02] <LunarJetman2> and I have already made a video poker game as a sample app[00:43:16] <immibis> ideally at least 3 games. every library should have at least 3 clients to prove that it's sufficiently general[00:43:32] <lurchman> Other alternative is making an engine that's specifically useful to your game[00:43:39] <immibis> (otherwise you end up with something like Source that's full of half-life-specific assumptions)[00:44:00] <LunarJetman2> I will destroy Unity and UE4 with my engine.[00:44:04] <lurchman> For example, Source did a great job creating several award winning games it was perfectly tailored for, despite aging a bit quicker than other engines[00:44:07] <LunarJetman2> I will destroy Qt first though[00:44:16] <pulse> aeth, at this point, C++ will brew you coffee if you ask it nicely[00:44:19] <myke> fwiw i use libgdx, yes i give up about 2/3rds of the performance relative to C++, but i can publish to native, mobile, or html with one command[00:44:21] <aeth> immibis: Is that bad, though? Source would have probably been the ideal engine for making Half Life 3 if they wanted to make it 5+ years ago and if they have the money to not be general, why not?[00:44:44] <aeth> pulse: lol no the coffee machine API is pretty low level, you can't just ask it nicely.[00:44:47] <immibis> aeth: well it doesn't adjust well to, say, Kerbal Space Program[00:44:52] <pulse> :p[00:45:12] <pulse> LunarJetman2, do you have any idea how silly you sound when you say you'll destroy UE4?[00:45:14] <pulse> let alone Qt...[00:45:25] <aeth> immibis: To be fair, neither did Unity. KSP had to write its own physics iirc. Maybe they moved onto built-in Unity physics in recent releases, but if they did that's because they were successful enough for Unity to cater to their demands.[00:45:28] <LunarJetman2> destroying Qt is simpler than destroying UE4 actually[00:45:29] <pulse> it's such a pompous thing to say[00:45:36] <pulse> LunarJetman2, none of those are simple, and you won't do any of those[00:45:37] <immibis> aeth: a general engine would not contain things like a weapon selection HUD[00:45:42] <LunarJetman2> yes, I will.[00:45:47] <pulse> LunarJetman2, are you a millionaire?[00:45:53] <LunarJetman2> don't have to be.[00:45:57] <LunarJetman2> I am that good.[00:46:00] <pulse> yeah, right[00:46:01] <aeth> immibis: if you're writing a general game that covers FPSes and action third person games, i.e. 95% of AAA games, why not do stuff like that?[00:46:02] <lurchman> Lunarjetman2: the fact that you think Java is idiotic tells me you don't have enough experience to be that good[00:46:03] <solidfox> super elite[00:46:08] <lurchman> Anyone with experience learns some humility[00:46:12] <aeth> s/general game/general game engine/[00:46:17] <immibis> aeth: well then it's a FPS engine[00:46:22] <immibis> (or FPS/TPS engine)[00:46:24] <LunarJetman2> lurchman: experience? I wrote my first program in 1984.[00:46:28] <aeth> You're always going to hit some corner case of support like Factorio where a custom engine makes the most sense.[00:46:30] <solidfox> lurchman: wut even Linus thinks java is idiotic[00:46:40] <pulse> the only way to destroy Qt or UE4 is to be a millionaire, and pour a lot of resources into development of a replacement[00:46:45] <pulse> that's the only way[00:46:46] <pulse> lol[00:46:52] <immibis> aeth: if you're trying to destroy Unity, then a FPS engine will not suffice[00:46:53] <pulse> and even then you wouldn't succeed, most likely[00:46:55] <solidfox> lurchman: you're in the present of a real legendary super hacker.[00:46:59] <LunarJetman2> I am already 80% of the way to destroying Qt so you don't know what you are talking about.[00:47:02] <aeth> solidfox: Linus would hate all of us for (1) using C++ instead of C and (2) working at a high level of abstraction instead of working on kernels[00:47:12] <solidfox> aeth: yeah :P[00:47:16] <lurchman> Apparently lol. I imagine since 1984 you've created at-least one killer program?[00:47:18] <solidfox> aeth: what a jerk![00:47:24] <pulse> LunarJetman2, maybe you should print your own CPU too ;)[00:47:27] <LunarJetman2> lurchman: I invented the smartphone.[00:47:32] <pulse> ...[00:47:38] <pulse> it's like a groundhog day when LunarJetman2 is around[00:47:40] <pulse> ffs[00:47:53] <solidfox> pulse: what do you mean groundhog day?[00:48:05] <pulse> solidfox, he says he invented the smartphone every other day[00:48:10] <solidfox> pulse: ah[00:48:12] <pulse> and he'll destroy qt and UE4[00:48:20] <solidfox> pulse: whats that gotta do with groundhog's day though[00:48:22] <aeth> immibis: Why do you have to destroy Unity if you're making an engine? If Valve wanted to make a Source 3 (significantly more innovative than Source 2, but the name Source 2 is taken) for Half Life 3, Left For Dead 3, Portal 3, Team Fortress 3, etc., they would print money. And they'd have an FPS-centered engine.[00:48:32] <pulse> solidfox, we went through it already :/[00:48:36] <lurchman> LunarJetman2: Is that why most of them run java :([00:48:48] <solidfox> pulse: oh ok[00:49:04] <pulse> the phone he worked on isn't a smarpthone[00:49:04] <LunarJetman2> my Qt killer (80% complete): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXvKOwQ4mvY[00:49:13] <pulse> it's a dumbphone by any definition[00:49:36] <LunarJetman2> it was the first smartphone and I was a member of the team that created it[00:49:38] <aeth> immibis: If anything, making too general of an engine is a way to compromise performance and convenience in the name of felxibility you'll never need.[00:49:42] <aeth> *flexibility[00:49:44] <immibis> aeth: indeed they would. just that LunarJetman wants to destroy unity[00:49:53] <pulse> LunarJetman2, so you shouldn't take full credit for it now should you[00:49:54] <solidfox> LunarJetman2: even a n00b like me can overcome a super elite if he tries desparately hard enough.[00:49:56] <pulse> and no that's not a smartphone[00:50:07] <solidfox> LunarJetman2: i will kill your engine with my own SOLID ENGINE[00:50:09] <pulse> unless i can install linux on it it's a dumbphone[00:50:15] <immibis> aeth: also, the reason source 3 would make money is BECAUSE of HL3, LFD3, P3, TF3, and so on. i.e. because they made games, not because they made engines[00:50:46] <LunarJetman2> Why will I destroy Qt? Because my offering will be better quality and cheaper, simple as that.[00:50:59] <aeth> immibis: And that's the point. Those games are going to be big enough to justify a new, common engine financially... and narrow enough in scope that being a "Unity-killer" would be a bad goal[00:51:19] <immibis> aeth: and my point is they wouldn't make nearly as much money by developing Source 3 and selling it as a platform for people to make games on[00:51:24] * pulse thinks LunarJetman2 is severely delusional, probably on some type of hallucinogen drugs[00:51:45] <aeth> immibis: eh, FPSes and closely related games like (close camera) third person action games are probably 95% of AAA games[00:51:49] <LunarJetman2> pulse: if that is how you want to rationalize the situation then good luck.[00:52:09] <lurchman> I am very confused by that video[00:52:13] <solidfox> an engine that idolizes ravioli, an inferior dish, does not deserve to be used.[00:52:14] <immibis> LunarJetman2: do you realise that every newbie says exactly what you're saying right now[00:52:28] <aeth> In a (close camera, over the shoulder) third person action game, it's basically an FPS, but with a person as your weapon model :-p[00:52:32] <LunarJetman2> the difference is I am that good.[00:52:36] <solidfox> so i will make SOLID ENGINE at least somewhat better than neogfx[00:52:40] <immibis> LunarJetman2: they said they were good too[00:53:12] <lurchman> I'm going to make an engine slightly better than an engine at-least somewhat better than neogfx[00:53:14] <solidfox> immibis: even a n00b can overcome a super elite if he tries desparately hard enough.[00:53:24] <solidfox> immibis: mark my words i will destroy neogfx[00:53:33] <aeth> solidfox: Are you allowed to call it "Solid Engine"? Might be too close to "Solid Snake"[00:53:39] <pulse> i liked this channel more when it was quiet 99% of the time[00:53:42] <aeth> If "Scrolls" is trademarked, "Solid" might be, too[00:53:45] <pulse> seemed more intelligent[00:54:00] <LunarJetman2> solidfox: https://neocake.org/ is a secret neoGFX side project.[00:54:01] <solidfox> pulse: take it easy man, we're just joking around.[00:54:01] *** headrx <headrx!ae8222ef@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.174.130.34.239> has quit IRC (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)[00:54:06] <pulse> :p[00:54:09] * pulse is, too[00:54:10] <lurchman> heh apologies. I joined the channel to ask a tech question and stumbled upon a weird laptop vs desktop debate. COuldn't help myself[00:54:17] <pulse> lurchman, no worries m8[00:55:04] <solidfox> ok im going back to watching crappy shonen animes[00:55:15] <pulse> brr, anime[00:55:38] <pulse> i'll never understand why people are so into it[00:55:49] <aeth> pulse: Well there's another gamedev channel that 95% of the time now is just a bot posting reddit posts[00:55:58] <pulse> aeth, yeah, lol[00:56:04] <pulse> it used to be *the* active one[00:56:10] <pulse> and this one was quiet most of the time[00:56:16] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[00:56:16] <aeth> Well, this used to be the more strictly on topic one[00:56:25] <aeth> Nonsense like laptop debates would have gone in the other channel :-p[00:56:25] <pulse> now all we do is circlejerk[00:56:33] <pulse> and talk about how LunarJetman2 will take over Qt with his mighty lib[00:56:44] <pulse> ...every other day[00:57:00] <LunarJetman2> every other day is an exaggeration[00:57:07] <pulse> like your claims? :P[00:57:19] <pulse> see, i can play that game too[00:57:20] <LunarJetman2> my claims are facts[00:57:23] <pulse> oh ok[00:57:25] <pulse> my claims are facts too[00:57:31] <pulse> in 4 days i will go to mars![00:57:35] <solidfox> some good has come from this channel though[00:57:36] <pulse> with my home-built space ship[00:57:42] <pulse> take that, nasa and spacex![00:57:48] <pulse> i will destroy spacex singlehandedly![00:57:51] <pulse> etc.[00:57:52] <LunarJetman2> elon musk is a fucking idiot[00:57:53] <solidfox> i got my tetris clone to a point where i can say its almost nearly done, but i gotta rewrite it a little[00:58:06] <solidfox> and i got a book recommendation[00:58:12] <solidfox> and encouragement to keep learning[00:58:15] <aeth> I'm surprised NASA only landed on the Mun a few times because it's really easy and cheap and I land on Mun all of the time.[00:58:25] <pulse> all you need is a good slingshot[00:58:27] <aeth> Now, Duna, yeah, that's hard and I can understand why it took so long[00:58:41] <aeth> s/it took/it is taking/[00:59:19] <solidfox> and i learned about ECS, and engines[00:59:36] <LunarJetman2> I recently ported my video poker game to use my ECS.[00:59:45] <pulse> ECS sucks[00:59:53] <LunarJetman2> ^ noobish thing to say[00:59:57] <pulse> OOP with deep inheritance is the way to go![00:59:59] <aeth> burn pulse[01:00:01] <pulse> :D[01:00:14] <aeth> I'll provide the pitchforks, someone else get the torches, fire is hard[01:00:20] <solidfox> pulse: what about object composition instead of inheritance[01:00:25] <pulse> good luck, i'm already on my rocket[01:00:28] <pulse> on the way to mars[01:00:34] <pulse> with my OOP-coded control systems[01:00:43] <lurchman> YAY a limited yet significant portion of my engine is now running on Oculus Go[01:00:43] <pulse> solidfox, NO! inheritance is the knightly way[01:00:45] <lurchman> that was a huge pain[01:00:53] <aeth> pulse: If it's anything like Kerbal Space Program you forgot something important and will crash horribly shortly after you leave time acceleration, if you even brought enough fuel[01:01:04] <solidfox> pulse: i think you just have a knee jerk reaction to ECS and so you cant see the advantages[01:01:15] <pulse> fuel? who needs fuel[01:01:22] <pulse> my rocket runs on the power of imagination[01:01:30] <LunarJetman2> solidfox: I think he was joking although Poe's Law applies.[01:01:43] <solidfox> LunarJetman2: oh i dont get jokes a lot of times.[01:01:48] <pulse> solidfox, we've had this ECS vs OOP debate like 10 trillion times now[01:01:50] <pulse> i can't stand another one[01:01:54] <pulse> i'll scratch my eyes out[01:01:55] <aeth> and ECS always wins[01:01:57] <pulse> if another one starts[01:02:05] <pulse> i'd rather troll you all into submission[01:02:06] <solidfox> ah i see poes law[01:02:09] <pulse> seems preferable[01:02:12] <LunarJetman2> I use OOP as well as ECS[01:02:27] <solidfox> yeah i dont see how the two are opposed[01:02:37] <solidfox> ECS is a design pattern..[01:02:46] <solidfox> not a paradigm[01:02:50] <aeth> The thing about OOP vs ECS is that modern computers are fast enough, and I don't particularly need the ability to run 10,000 spaceships simultaneously, so I'll go with the simpler architecture of OOP[01:03:06] <pulse> who cares[01:03:13] <pulse> give me some pizza and i'll do whatever you want[01:03:18] <immibis> ECS can be a simpler architecture too[01:03:20] <aeth> pulse: anything?[01:03:24] <solidfox> immibis: i agree[01:03:33] <pulse> aeth, out of those options :P[01:03:33] <solidfox> immibis: thats what i like about it. it seems so awesomely simple[01:03:35] <LunarJetman2> To prove I like OOP as well as ECS here is the inheritance tree for neoGFX's push button widget: https://neogfx.io/doxygen/html/classneogfx_1_1push__button.html[01:03:35] <immibis> depends what you count as ECS[01:03:35] *** Jakey <Jakey!~Jakey69@unaffiliated/jakey> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[01:04:00] <immibis> to me one of the main factors is avoiding the: for(Entity e : entities) e.update(); loop[01:04:12] <pulse> LunarJetman2, can your lib do dirty rectangles?[01:04:34] <immibis> and that has advantages beyond performance. for example, when an update involves a complex interaction of certain subsets of entities (such as physics)[01:04:50] <LunarJetman2> pulse: you can invalidate rectangular areas of a window if that is what you mean[01:05:01] <pulse> LunarJetman2, i mean selective redraws for optimization[01:05:02] <immibis> two objects try to move onto the same square. which one succeeds? in ECS, you can make it so neither one succeeds. with the traditional update loop, you can't easily[01:05:07] <pulse> i wouldn't expect it, just curious[01:05:19] <pulse> i think windows uses selective redraw to optimize for power, etc[01:05:23] <lurchman> From what I've read OOP does end up being pretty well-suited to GUIs. It wouldn't be strange to use OOP for your GUI while using ECS for your game entities[01:05:38] <LunarJetman2> lurchman: that is what I am doing[01:05:50] <LunarJetman2> although I might use ECS for my graph/chart widgets[01:06:33] <lurchman> Nice. Not saying you have to use ECS either, not like OOP is incapable of being the full basis for a game engine ;)[01:06:45] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[01:06:52] <aeth> Idk, I've found it best to do things the other way around and ECS my GUI and OOP the rest of my game[01:07:14] <pulse> shallow OOP with composition is a good way[01:07:16] <pulse> fairly optimized[01:07:19] <pulse> (for GUI)[01:07:32] <LunarJetman2> well my video poker game didn't originally use ECS because neoGFX was initially just going to be a C++ GUI library; I changed its scope last year to also be a game engine so I created an ECS a few months ago[01:07:52] *** zhalla <zhalla!~zhalla@unaffiliated/zhalla> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb1+deb9u1 - http://znc.in)[01:08:26] *** Jakey <Jakey!~Jakey69@unaffiliated/jakey> has joined #gamedev[01:10:47] <LunarJetman2> my main ECS interface: https://neogfx.io/doxygen/html/classneogfx_1_1game_1_1i__ecs.html[01:11:15] *** Kingsqueeee <Kingsqueeee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[01:11:56] *** Kingsqueee <Kingsqueee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[01:13:02] <aeth> LunarJetman2: I don't know if I can follow that diagram[01:13:16] <LunarJetman2> which one?[01:13:39] <aeth> LunarJetman2: https://neogfx.io/doxygen/html/classneogfx_1_1game_1_1i__ecs.png[01:13:53] <LunarJetman2> :D[01:13:57] <aeth> So clean and elegant: https://neogfx.io/doxygen/html/classneogfx_1_1push__button.png[01:14:35] <LunarJetman2> aeth: you do realized that I am NOT using multiple inheritance there?[01:15:22] <pulse> the annoying this is that i'd like neogfx to succeed[01:15:30] <pulse> but the author's attitude makes me think it won't[01:16:16] <LunarJetman2> yes I need to go to an attitude readjustment centre run by the thought police[01:16:24] <aeth> no[01:16:25] <pulse> :/[01:16:26] <aeth> just run by pulse[01:16:36] <pulse> you could start by being humbler and just making a good lib[01:16:44] <pulse> and not say over and over again how you'll destroy qt[01:16:53] <pulse> that sounds arrogant and impossible[01:17:06] <LunarJetman2> destroying Qt is a non-functional requirement of my lib[01:17:11] <pulse> eh[01:17:12] <aeth> eh[01:17:16] <pulse> ok, have it your way[01:17:18] <aeth> destroying Qt is doable[01:17:20] <aeth> over 20 years[01:17:20] <pulse> but know that you're putting me off[01:17:29] <pulse> aeth, no, it's not[01:17:32] <LunarJetman2> aeth: but I am 80% there after just three years[01:17:35] <pulse> in 20 years qt will have x100 features[01:17:42] *** Kingsqueeee <Kingsqueeee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out)[01:18:12] *** Kingsqueeee <Kingsqueeee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[01:18:26] <aeth> LunarJetman2: It's not about features it's about adoption[01:18:34] <pulse> it's also about support[01:18:41] <pulse> unless you're willing to hire 1000 people to do that for you[01:18:42] <aeth> Also the last 5% is the hardest[01:18:51] <LunarJetman2> well inertia is a problem yes, my initial target market will be new build.[01:19:25] <pulse> Qt is popular because it's solid, feature complete, and it has financial backing to support it from every angle[01:19:29] <pulse> and to support its customers[01:19:36] <pulse> how the hell you think you're going to deal with that on your own is beyond me[01:19:46] <pulse> or do you think you're superhuman enough to handle 10000 emails per day[01:19:48] <pulse> idk...[01:20:02] <pulse> not to mention a pile of tickets or issues growing exponentially on you[01:20:03] <LunarJetman2> my lib will also be feature complete when it is feature complete so I don't know why you brought that up[01:20:09] <aeth> pulse: The same way I'm going to destroy Unity with my game engine. Very slowly.[01:20:14] <pulse> LunarJetman2, you expect it to be bug free too?[01:20:20] <pulse> aeth, ha[01:20:34] <pulse> since we're all destroying things maybe i'll destroy windows[01:20:36] <LunarJetman2> LOL. Qt is far from bug free; Qt has thousands of bugs currently[01:20:37] <aeth> pulse: $engine won't replace Unity. $engine v7 with decades of experience might[01:20:38] <pulse> i'll make megaDOS[01:20:41] <pulse> the DOS for the new age[01:20:52] <Cahaan> I missed that latop conversation, but yeah I only work on laptops because I can work with them in my fucking bed[01:20:53] <pulse> LunarJetman2, yeah, and they have the infrastructure to deal with that. do you?[01:21:00] <pulse> Cahaan, lol[01:21:02] <LunarJetman2> I don't have thousands of bugs[01:21:07] <pulse> Cahaan, is that comfortable?[01:21:08] <Cahaan> with desktop you need to fucking sit on a fuckin chair[01:21:13] <Cahaan> heck yeah it is :)[01:21:17] <aeth> pulse: To be fair, Windows *is* slowly being replaced on the scale of many decades. Probably the slowest piece of software to slowly be replaced![01:21:28] <pulse> lol[01:21:33] <LunarJetman2> Qt has thousands of bugs because it is low quality; my lib is high quality.[01:21:44] <pulse> LunarJetman2, so you expect how many bugs on release[01:21:56] <LunarJetman2> there will only be minor bugs on release[01:21:59] <aeth> The problem with APIs is that once you're popular you discover all of the flaws and now you're locked into the API you wrote naively.[01:22:08] <aeth> That's why popular APIs are so obviously trash[01:22:11] <aeth> They can't fix it.[01:22:16] <solidfox> pulse: i used OOP for my tetris clone, and im reading design patterns by the gangx4[01:22:28] <solidfox> gang of four*[01:22:38] <pulse> LunarJetman2, well, i wish you good luck with your lib[01:22:44] <LunarJetman2> thanks![01:23:16] <pulse> now i'll go and watch a documentary on WW2[01:23:20] <solidfox> wait theres bugs in qt lol[01:23:24] * pulse evaporates into a fine mist[01:23:31] <solidfox> pulse: cya[01:23:51] <aeth> pulse: oh wow you're watching the documentary on WW2? Yeah, the one documentary that's there is great, too bad there aren't more.[01:23:56] <aeth> :-p[01:24:11] <pulse> i'm watching one about the Gestapo[01:24:12] <pulse> :D[01:24:25] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCA4v1f2Hts[01:24:27] <aeth> wait, you said 'a documentary' so they must have written a sequel to the WW2 documentary.[01:24:57] <pulse> i've been watching allo allo and now i'm curious about the actual gestapo[01:25:28] <pulse> it was somewhat less funny than the allo allo version tho[01:26:28] <LunarJetman2> screenshot I just made: https://i.imgur.com/CfXCpLf.png[01:27:14] <solidfox> LunarJetman2: do you have slidy portions? not sure what the proper name is[01:27:22] <LunarJetman2> eh?[01:27:25] <solidfox> hmm[01:27:32] <solidfox> well in some programs you have multiple areas[01:27:51] *** zhalla <zhalla!~zhalla@unaffiliated/zhalla> has joined #gamedev[01:27:52] <solidfox> and you can slide their boundary adjacently to resize[01:28:08] <LunarJetman2> eh? :)[01:28:08] <solidfox> and some programs have drag and drop, so you can rearrange your areas[01:28:11] <solidfox> hmm[01:28:15] <solidfox> like visual studio[01:28:20] <solidfox> the different panes[01:28:22] <LunarJetman2> yeam mean docks?[01:28:26] <solidfox> yes docks![01:28:33] <LunarJetman2> I will have docking support yes[01:28:37] <LunarJetman2> also MDI support[01:28:47] <solidfox> MDI?[01:29:01] <LunarJetman2> multiple resizable windows within the native OS window[01:29:30] <solidfox> ah ok ive seen that before[01:29:34] <solidfox> deepburner[01:29:40] <LunarJetman2> I actually call them "nested windows"[01:29:42] <solidfox> and the accounting program from my former work..[01:29:49] <solidfox> ok[01:30:14] <LunarJetman2> menus are native OS windows so they can overlap but in fullscreen mode they will have to be nested windows[01:31:12] <solidfox> this is somewhat rare, will you have a wheel widget?[01:31:34] <solidfox> its like the slider widget but with a wheel that kind suggests theres no start or end[01:31:44] <solidfox> or that you value can go beyond the start or the end[01:31:44] <LunarJetman2> I might add one[01:31:59] <solidfox> LunarJetman2: i've only seen it in apple final cut[01:32:28] <solidfox> knobs are also rare but they're just like a slider..[01:32:32] <solidfox> functionally[01:35:25] <solidfox> heres a pic, the wheel is in the top-middle dock http://www.redplanetentertainment.com/dev/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Final_Cut_Pro_7_SS.jpg[01:36:13] <pulse> if his lib is worth anything you'll be able to make custom controls on the fly anyway[01:36:27] <solidfox> pulse: ah fair point[01:36:45] *** cnidario <cnidario!~dont@cli-5b7ec6e9.ast.adamo.es> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:37:09] <solidfox> i mean this is just a drag left-right decrease-increase show-a-wheel-turning kind of thing.[01:43:36] <LunarJetman2> yeah I will add one of those; low priority though: I still haven't implemented tree views.[01:44:17] *** _DB <_DB!6ccefbd9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.206.251.217> has joined #gamedev[01:44:40] <_DB> soooooo helloooo everybody im new here but ive been in other channels for years XD[01:44:49] <_DB> just found out about this one hows it going mates[01:46:27] <solidfox> ah yes good ol tree views[01:51:24] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[01:56:37] <solidfox> man i hate running out of milk[01:56:54] <solidfox> im probably gonna drink a glass before bed. and then get hungry and thirsty while lying down[01:56:59] <solidfox> then all i can do is cry[01:57:10] <solidfox> cause its cold out and i aint making a special trip[01:57:15] <myke> lol![01:58:03] <solidfox> _DB: hi. its ok. almost out of milk tho[01:58:08] <solidfox> _DB: how are you[01:59:40] <myke> haha steam on a mac[01:59:49] <myke> nearly 70% of my games run on here tho[01:59:50] <myke> weird[02:00:47] <solidfox> myke: nicce[02:07:02] *** carldd 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timeout: 245 seconds)[04:42:44] <idiot136> ----------------------------------------[04:42:47] <idiot136> |@@@@@@@^^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~^^@@@@@@@@|[04:42:50] <idiot136> |@@@@@@^ ~^ @ @@ @ @ @ I ~^@@@@@@|[04:42:53] <idiot136> |@@@@@ ~ ~~ ~I @@@@@|[04:42:57] <idiot136> |@@@@' ' _,w@< @@@@|[04:43:00] <idiot136> |@@@@ @@@@@@@@w___,w@@@@@@@@ @ @@@|[04:43:03] <idiot136> |@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ I @@@|[04:43:06] <idiot136> |@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@*@[ i @@@|[04:43:11] <idiot136> |@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@[][ | ]@@@|[04:43:11] <idiot136> |@@@@ ~_,,_ ~@@@@@@@~ ____~ @ @@@|[04:43:14] <idiot136> |@@@@ _~ , , `@@@~ _ _`@ ]L J@@@|[04:43:17] <idiot136> |@@@@ , @@w@ww+ @@@ww``,,@w@ ][ @@@@|[04:43:20] <idiot136> |@@@@, @@@@www@@@ @@@@@@@ww@@@@@[ @@@@|[04:43:23] <idiot136> |@@@@@_|| @@@@@@P' @@P@@@@@@@@@@@[|c@@@@|[04:43:27] <idiot136> |@@@@@@w| '@@P~ P]@@@-~, ~Y@@^'],@@@@@@|[04:43:30] <idiot136> |@@@@@@@[ _ _J@@Tk ]]@@@@@@|[04:43:33] <idiot136> |@@@@@@@@,@ @@, c,,,,,,,y ,w@@[ ,@@@@@@@|[04:43:36] <idiot136> |@@@@@@@@@ i @w ====--_@@@@@ @@@@@@@@|[04:43:41] <idiot136> |@@@@@@@@@@`,P~ _ ~^^^^Y@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@|[04:43:41] <idiot136> |@@@@^^=^@@^ ^' ,ww,w@@@@@ _@@@@@@@@@@|[04:43:44] <idiot136> |@@@_xJ~ ~ , @@@@@@@P~_@@@@@@@@@@@@|[04:43:47] <idiot136> |@@ @, ,@@@,_____ _,J@@@@@@@@@@@@@|[04:43:50] <idiot136> |@@L `' ,@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@|[04:43:53] <idiot136> |@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@|[04:43:57] <idiot136>[04:45:53] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8814:4f00:f5b7:bc52:c530:b319> has joined #gamedev[04:52:19] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8814:4f00:f5b7:bc52:c530:b319> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[04:56:59] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@cpe-172-192-3-194.qld.foxtel.net.au> has joined #gamedev[05:02:47] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@cpe-172-192-3-194.qld.foxtel.net.au> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[05:07:03] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8a03:a100:773d:27e9:f519:dd31> has joined 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<getSomethingGood!~getSometh@ip-149-248-183-233.fibre.fibrestream.ca> has joined #gamedev[05:50:19] <LastTalon> R2robot, saturday[05:51:47] *** getSomethingGood <getSomethingGood!~getSometh@ip-149-248-183-233.fibre.fibrestream.ca> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[05:53:26] *** getSomethingGood <getSomethingGood!~getSometh@ip-149-248-183-233.fibre.fibrestream.ca> has joined #gamedev[05:59:48] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@cpe-172-192-78-216.qld.foxtel.net.au> has joined #gamedev[06:01:48] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:4c6:a726:942c:87fb> has joined #gamedev[06:03:48] <idiot136> k[06:10:48] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@cpe-172-192-78-216.qld.foxtel.net.au> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[06:14:18] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8814:4f00:37d5:5816:a9da:204> has joined #gamedev[06:14:37] *** mobile_c is now known as UNSTABLE_WIFI[06:16:43] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined 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<R2robot> Saturn Day[09:18:28] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined #gamedev[09:24:29] <pavonia> Saturn is losing its rings[09:24:43] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:3496:3d6d:2f62:e49f> has joined #gamedev[09:25:03] *** UNSTABLE_WIFI <UNSTABLE_WIFI!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8a03:a100:773d:27e9:f519:dd31> has joined #gamedev[09:43:19] <R2robot> Why can't it remember where it put them?[10:01:56] *** UNSTABLE_WIFI <UNSTABLE_WIFI!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8a03:a100:773d:27e9:f519:dd31> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[10:03:42] *** infinee_ <infinee_!~infinee@061093245022.static.ctinets.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[10:17:03] *** UNSTABLE_WIFI <UNSTABLE_WIFI!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8814:4f00:37d5:5816:a9da:204> has joined #gamedev[10:24:26] *** UNSTABLE_WIFI <UNSTABLE_WIFI!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8814:4f00:37d5:5816:a9da:204> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[10:41:37] *** UNSTABLE_WIFI 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*** UNSTABLE_WIFI <UNSTABLE_WIFI!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8a03:a100:773d:27e9:f519:dd31> has joined #gamedev[15:00:37] *** LunarJetman2 <LunarJetman2!LunarJetma@188.30.99.249.threembb.co.uk> has joined #gamedev[15:01:05] *** UNSTABLE_WIFI <UNSTABLE_WIFI!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8a03:a100:773d:27e9:f519:dd31> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[15:01:58] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[15:02:57] <R2robot> This channel is closed on Sundays[15:10:54] <mr_lou> Today is Saturday.[15:11:19] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[15:11:28] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[15:12:51] <R2robot> Sorry, we are unable to respond to your incorrect statement due to channel closure. Please come back during normal operating hours.[16:09:52] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[16:10:18] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has joined #gamedev[16:14:43] *** iLoVue <iLoVue!~DinoJS@41.107.20.35> has joined #gamedev[16:17:03] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:4c6:a726:942c:87fb> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:17:06] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[16:17:22] *** iLoVue <iLoVue!~DinoJS@41.107.20.35> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[16:22:08] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[16:36:27] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.124.99.198> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:43:09] <solidfox> hey guys whats up im gonna do some open courseware sort of things on youtube - oh shyt we're closed[16:44:26] <solidfox> (i tried to do these lecture videos before and i usually quit after a few days[16:47:59] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has joined #gamedev[16:57:13] * mr_lou is trying to come up with a clever name for his small space shooter game.[16:57:19] <mr_lou> ...and failing miserably.[16:57:22] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[16:58:03] <solidfox> mr_lou: just do what i do[16:58:22] <solidfox> mr_lou: "Amazing Small Space Shooter Game"[16:58:26] <mr_lou> hehe[16:58:35] <mr_lou> The name "Space Shooter" did come up.[16:58:38] <pulse> that spells ASSSG[16:58:48] <solidfox> nice i love ASSSG[16:59:06] <mr_lou> I'm gonna go with "Amazing Space Shooter" then.[16:59:11] <solidfox> and lol[16:59:27] <mr_lou> Or "Another Space Shooter".[16:59:29] <solidfox> then when you get a high score say, Nice A.S.S.[16:59:38] <mr_lou> (to mock my brother, who made "Another Rocket Game").[17:00:14] <pulse> space balls in space[17:01:40] <mr_lou> As a kid I always referred to "Satellite attack" as "The UFO game". So maybe they should be it.[17:01:48] <mr_lou> *that[17:03:41] <pulse> i like it[17:03:52] <mr_lou> Or maybe "The Blue UFO", because of the main sprite I'm using: https://opengameart.org/content/spaceship-2d[17:03:54] <pulse> but only if you have flying saucers in the game[17:04:02] <mr_lou> (And that also refers to the fact that it's a Blu-ray game ;-))[17:04:03] <pulse> nice[17:06:14] <mr_lou> Or. "B.L.U.F.O"... Big Large Unidentified Flying Object.[17:06:20] <mr_lou> :-P[17:12:04] *** cnidario <cnidario!~dont@cli-5b7ec6e9.ast.adamo.es> has joined #gamedev[17:28:02] <LunarJetman2> stop causing panic.[17:30:10] <pulse> what, you don't believe intelligent aliens from Zeta Reticuli are hovering around Earth in UFOs, making crop circles ever so often?![17:30:20] <pulse> my aunt would like to have a word with you![18:03:33] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[18:06:48] *** babuloseo <babuloseo!~babuloseo@unaffiliated/babuloseo> has joined #gamedev[18:17:56] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[18:22:08] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[18:26:57] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:70c0:af9e:8143:6247> has joined #gamedev[18:32:27] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[18:33:54] <pulse> brainzap is here, hide your sprites[18:40:49] *** Groogy <Groogy!~Groogy@90-227-38-205-no61.tbcn.telia.com> has joined #gamedev[18:44:08] *** cnidario <cnidario!~dont@cli-5b7ec6e9.ast.adamo.es> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[18:54:13] <solidfox> lol i still cant do inductive proofs[18:54:18] <solidfox> im never gonna be a super elite[18:54:47] <solidfox> cant even prove that the sum formula is n(n+1)/2 which only requires algebra[18:55:54] <myke> why can't you do them?[18:56:19] <solidfox> well i tried every type of factoring i even cheated a little and looked up all the kinds of factoring[18:56:23] <solidfox> aka factorising[18:56:39] <solidfox> yup i made it to k = k + 2 so somthing isnt right[18:57:20] <solidfox> but ya know im still gonna finish my design patterns book[18:57:26] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@cpe-98-145-151-187.natnow.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[18:57:31] <solidfox> i might not be able to do CS research but i can write good software perhaps[18:59:27] *** Zamolxe <Zamolxe!gallifromh@unaffiliated/zamolxe> has quit IRC ()[19:03:44] <o][o> inductive proofs are the simplest ones. what is wrong?[19:03:55] <o][o> n! = n * (n-1)![19:04:12] <o][o> 0! = 1[19:05:40] <solidfox> well ok i proved my base case, 1. and so i assume p(k) and try to show p(k+1) = p(k) right?[19:06:17] *** Kingsqueee <Kingsqueee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[19:06:29] <solidfox> so i wrote k(k+1)/2 = (k+1)(k+1+1)/2[19:06:46] <solidfox> and i took off the /2 on each side (multiplied by two on each side)[19:07:09] <solidfox> then i reduced the right side and refactored[19:07:24] <o][o> http://comet.lehman.cuny.edu/sormani/teaching/induction.html[19:07:28] <solidfox> bro[19:07:35] <solidfox> what is that page gonna tell me different?[19:07:46] <solidfox> if its the answer then its pointless[19:07:53] <solidfox> cause ive seen the answer years ago to the same problem[19:08:00] <o][o> :D I don't know what is going on inside your brain[19:08:05] <o][o> there is no way for me to know[19:08:09] <o][o> so drop the attitude[19:08:16] <solidfox> ok ill read that[19:08:29] <solidfox> yeah it has the answer[19:08:34] <o][o> if you already know that. then okay :) we can try other stuff[19:08:46] <solidfox> the answer isnt the point its the process[19:08:55] <solidfox> i cant do the final part[19:09:04] <o][o> proof by induction is simple. I think you are struggling with practicing it[19:09:06] <solidfox> where you show p(k) implies p(k+1)[19:09:16] <o][o> I like to work with actual use cases[19:09:18] <o][o> for example[19:09:23] <o][o> here is a game[19:09:28] <o][o> there are N jars in a ball[19:09:37] <o][o> me against you[19:09:45] <o][o> each player can only take one or two balls[19:09:55] <o][o> the last one who can't pick a ball loses[19:10:22] <o][o> I can prove by induction who is gonna win[19:10:28] <o][o> at any time[19:10:56] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has joined #gamedev[19:10:57] <solidfox> so they have to wait until the other player takes a turn right[19:11:18] <o][o> during each player turn, they need to pick one or two balls[19:11:54] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[19:12:03] <solidfox> so if N is 1 the first player wins[19:12:11] <o][o> if N is 2, likewise[19:12:16] <o][o> these are the base cases[19:12:23] <solidfox> two base cases?[19:12:29] <o][o> yeah![19:12:33] <solidfox> the summation formula seems like a simpler example then[19:12:38] <o][o> nah[19:12:50] <o][o> two base cases and the induction[19:13:03] <o][o> can be one base case: if N <= 2 = player wins[19:13:39] <LunarJetman2> tic tac toe always ends in a draw unless a script kiddie is playing[19:13:46] <o][o> noted[19:14:06] <LunarJetman2> or o][o is playing[19:14:20] <solidfox> so like your solution to my problem is to give me an easier problem?[19:14:35] <solidfox> easier than the standard summation formula (which is already in maths terms)[19:14:43] <solidfox> (so summation might be easier)[19:14:56] <o][o> perhaps. I was just trying to be more pragmatic[19:15:07] <LunarJetman2> stop causing panic.[19:15:11] <o][o> sometimes I fail to use my CS theory knowledge if I don't have real problems to solve[19:15:13] <solidfox> like cause there is a physical game instead of numbers[19:15:45] <o][o> I never believed that foo/bar dumb examples[19:15:48] <o][o> they tell me nothing[19:16:20] <solidfox> in other words you cant tell me where my error is in the summation example[19:16:24] *** gareppa <gareppa!~gareppa@unaffiliated/gareppa> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:16:25] <solidfox> so you had to change the problem?[19:16:25] <o][o> no :)[19:16:29] <solidfox> ok[19:16:35] <solidfox> well can we proceed with that one[19:16:51] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:16:55] <solidfox> i already wrote half of it[19:17:09] * o][o hands it over to LunarJetman2[19:17:13] <o][o> he seems to be more interested[19:17:22] <solidfox> he didnt say anything to me[19:17:43] <LunarJetman2> this isn't #math[19:17:44] *** fidasx <fidasx!~fidasx@ppp-94-66-221-145.home.otenet.gr> has joined #gamedev[19:18:02] <solidfox> LunarJetman2: isnt CS basically just maths[19:18:12] <o][o> :)[19:18:13] <pulse> wrong, this is #math[19:18:14] <LunarJetman2> obviously not[19:18:14] <solidfox> in other words #gamedev is math[19:18:27] <solidfox> sigh[19:18:29] <solidfox> well i give up[19:18:31] <solidfox> induction sucks[19:18:34] <solidfox> i hate everything[19:18:38] <o][o> :([19:18:39] <pulse> solidfox, induction is easy[19:18:42] <o][o> get more real problems[19:18:47] <pulse> prove for n=1, prove for n=n+1[19:18:48] <pulse> done[19:18:56] <o][o> It is essentially used to prove that a property P(n) holds for every natural number n, i.e. for n = 0, 1, 2, 3, and so on[19:19:05] <solidfox> pulse: yeah everyone says that, and then they say we need to change the problem to an easier one for them[19:19:21] <solidfox> pulse: instead of letting me finish my steps[19:19:27] <solidfox> pulse: and telling me where i made an error[19:19:31] <pulse> letting you finish your steps, ha[19:19:39] <pulse> this is the internet after all[19:19:41] <LunarJetman2> stop causing panic.[19:19:59] <o][o> stop repeating yourself like a fucktard[19:20:11] <pulse> stop stopping stoppers[19:20:40] <LunarJetman2> o][o used the word "fucktard"; how cute.[19:20:57] <solidfox> ok so k(k+1) = (k+1)(k+1+1) right[19:20:58] <brainzap> we are all gonna die[19:21:08] <pulse> jesus christ[19:21:20] <LunarJetman2> never existed[19:21:22] <brainzap> lets free pulse first from his body[19:21:27] <solidfox> pulse: wut[19:21:46] <pulse> what if we instead body pulse first from his free[19:22:00] <pulse> LunarJetman2, simulation hypothesis is dumm[19:22:00] <solidfox> i started with k(k+1)/2 this is sumation formula. set it equal to = (k+1)(k+1+1)/2[19:22:19] <LunarJetman2> pulse: what has that got to do with price of fish?[19:22:24] <pulse> LunarJetman2, 17 thousand[19:22:28] <solidfox> i say that /2 is annoying to write repeatedly so i remove it on both sides[19:22:30] <solidfox> is that right?[19:22:49] <LunarJetman2> jesus christ never existed, fact.[19:22:52] <pulse> solidfox, wat[19:23:07] <solidfox> pulse: multiply by two on both sides to remove /2[19:23:24] <pulse> oh. k(k+1)/2 = (k+1)(k+1+1)/2[19:23:26] <pulse> ok[19:23:31] <solidfox> yes[19:23:39] <pulse> umm[19:23:47] <solidfox> i got to k=k+2 going this route[19:23:53] <solidfox> that aint right[19:23:55] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[19:24:21] <solidfox> shouldnt both sides become equivalent somehow[19:24:52] <pulse> yeah that sounds wrong[19:25:06] <solidfox> well ok after that, like i said i removed the /2[19:25:17] <brainzap> sometimes I wonder if you could make a game that teaches you math, without you finding out that you learn math. Like some very addicting antichamber/the witness game style[19:25:37] <solidfox> k(k+1) = (k+1)(k+2)[19:26:21] <solidfox> take away the (k+1) on both sides[19:26:28] <solidfox> k=k+2[19:26:49] <pulse> i got k + 1 = 0[19:27:14] <pulse> k = -1[19:27:18] <pulse> ha, i'm right[19:27:20] <pulse> https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=k(k%2B1)+%3D+(k%2B1)(k%2B1%2B1)[19:27:29] <solidfox> wut[19:27:39] <solidfox> how does that prove anything[19:27:40] <pulse> it's easy, just juggle the equation around[19:27:46] <solidfox> yes juggling[19:27:48] <pulse> it doesn't, i just wanted to see wtf you're doing[19:27:53] <LunarJetman2> k=k+2 doesn't work if k = -1[19:28:02] <pulse> ah[19:28:26] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has joined #gamedev[19:30:02] <pulse> k = k + 2 doesn't make sense anyway[19:30:08] <pulse> your math is wrong solidfox[19:30:27] <solidfox> maybe im not supposed to set them equal to each other then[19:30:30] <LunarJetman2> this isn't #math tho[19:30:35] <pulse> LunarJetman2, who the f cares[19:30:41] <solidfox> p(k) = p(k+1) now that i think about it, thats not true[19:31:08] <pulse> solidfox, just find some step by step examples for induction and go through them[19:31:12] <solidfox> the sum of integer (1) is 1 and the some of integer (1,2) is 3 and 1 != 3[19:31:21] <solidfox> pulse: whats the point of that[19:31:27] <pulse> solidfox, learning[19:31:32] <solidfox> pulse: i wont learn anything by just looking at the answer yet again[19:31:41] <LunarJetman2> learning of causing panic?[19:31:45] <pulse> solidfox, no but if you put effort into it you will[19:31:54] <solidfox> this is a waste of time[19:31:59] <pulse> ok...[19:32:02] <LunarJetman2> \o/[19:32:22] <pulse> solidfox, so one one hand you want to be given the solution to your problem, and on another, you don't want to go through other solutions to the same technique ? :P[19:32:31] <pulse> that's how you learn m8[19:32:54] <LunarJetman2> pulse is being serious cuz he called u m8.[19:32:56] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[19:33:02] <pulse> :D[19:33:20] *** bobbydrake_ <bobbydrake_!~ricardo_@63.135.30.178> has joined #gamedev[19:33:31] <solidfox> pulse: i dont want the answer i wanted to be told where my error was[19:33:42] <solidfox> it was at p(k) = p(k+1)[19:33:47] <solidfox> the very first step was wrong[19:34:39] <solidfox> maybe i should show that p(k) + k+1 = p(k+1)[19:35:00] <pulse> isn't the point of induction to show that if p(k) holds then p(k+1) holds too[19:35:27] <solidfox> the sum of integer (1) is 1 and the some of integer (1,2) is 3 and 1 != 3[19:35:50] <solidfox> pulse: p(k) implies p(k+1) not is equal[19:36:02] <solidfox> implication is sometimes written as an arrow =>[19:36:06] <pulse> right[19:36:08] <solidfox> n00b[19:36:17] <pulse> :([19:36:27] <pulse> it's been a while since i had to do these[19:36:28] <pulse> lol[19:36:35] <solidfox> ah i see[19:36:42] <solidfox> i hope they dont ask me this at the interview[19:36:48] <solidfox> cause even if i get this, im gonna forget it[19:37:35] <bobbydrake_> ppm files only take on integers values?[19:40:37] *** bobbydrake_ <bobbydrake_!~ricardo_@63.135.30.178> has left #gamedev ("Leaving")[19:47:05] <solidfox> ok im gonna draw all the branches of each equation[19:47:13] <solidfox> on separate sides[19:47:17] <solidfox> and see if i see a match[19:47:29] <pulse> solidfox, btw you can annoy ##math with this if you want to[19:47:40] <pulse> they will give you reasonable responses :P[19:47:59] <solidfox> idk[19:48:05] <solidfox> i went there before[19:48:11] <solidfox> i dont have a strong memory of it[19:48:15] <solidfox> i feel like nobody answered me[19:48:35] <pulse> they don't necessarily like stupid questions but they usually are pretty nice[19:48:44] <pulse> not that this is a stupid question[19:49:01] <solidfox> i think they gave me the answer[19:49:05] <solidfox> and then i gave up[20:00:39] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[20:04:27] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[20:05:42] <solidfox> i got it[20:05:46] <solidfox> i finally did an induction[20:06:02] <solidfox> i even discovered my error by myself[20:06:22] <solidfox> while causing panic.[20:06:58] <pulse> nice[20:07:21] <pulse> i think i caused too much panic, i'm experiencing a nosebleed[20:08:37] <solidfox> treating each side as their own and finding all arrangements i could find of both of them helped[20:08:57] <solidfox> when the professor does it, it looks like he just falls into the solution by accident because he's copying from his ntoes[20:09:00] <solidfox> notos[20:10:08] <solidfox> im gonna try another then.[20:18:24] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[20:19:32] <solidfox> pulse: what does it mean to cause panic[20:20:16] <solidfox> pulse: does it mean "you should calm down instead of causing a panic"[20:20:38] <solidfox> i thought i was pretty ｃａｌｍ[20:22:17] *** veridiam <veridiam!~veridiam@S010674d02b5e3c80.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[20:22:43] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[20:43:03] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@cpe-98-145-151-187.natnow.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: zzzzzz)[20:44:35] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@cpe-98-145-151-187.natnow.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[20:49:47] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@cpe-98-145-151-187.natnow.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Quit: zzzzzz)[20:53:11] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@cpe-98-145-151-187.natnow.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[20:53:15] *** joshbright <joshbright!~joshbrigh@cpe-98-145-151-187.natnow.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[20:55:36] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has joined #gamedev[21:13:24] <solidfox> aw man[21:13:29] <solidfox> i am stuck again[21:14:44] <solidfox> i am proving sum of each square from 1 to n is n(n+1)(2n+1)/6[21:15:53] <solidfox> one side has (2n cubed + 9n squared + n + 6) / 6 and the other side has a (2n cubed + 9n squared + 13n + 6)/6[21:18:17] <solidfox> (2n^^^ + 9n^^ + n + 6) / 6 and the other side has a (2n^^^ + 9n^^ + 13n + 6)/6[21:18:46] <solidfox> (2n^3 + 9n^2 + n + 6) / 6 and (2n^3 + 9n^2 + 13n + 6)/6[21:19:50] <solidfox> doh[21:20:15] <solidfox> i turned (k+1)^2 into k^2 + 1 on the first step[21:23:03] <solidfox> that was it[21:23:07] <solidfox> solved another induction[21:23:11] <solidfox> kant believe it[21:27:23] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[21:28:54] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[21:37:49] <_DB> sup[21:38:06] <solidfox> _DB: not much you[21:44:33] <_DB> meh just online getting ready to code[21:44:46] <solidfox> ｎｉｃｅ[21:45:20] <_DB> yeaa[21:53:04] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[22:01:18] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[22:11:39] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[22:12:27] *** veridiam <veridiam!~veridiam@S010674d02b5e3c80.vs.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Quit: veridiam)[22:12:41] *** veridiam <veridiam!~veridiam@S010674d02b5e3c80.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[22:17:22] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Quit: pulse)[22:17:35] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:70c0:af9e:8143:6247> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:18:51] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[22:47:36] *** genr8_ <genr8_!~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc> has joined #gamedev[22:50:26] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[23:01:08] *** veridiam <veridiam!~veridiam@S010674d02b5e3c80.vs.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[23:20:12] <solidfox> 3 proofs[23:20:24] <solidfox> man ive really reached a new milestone in my abilities[23:20:37] <solidfox> its like i broke past my limits and became something greater than a n00b[23:20:48] <solidfox> like a super n00b[23:21:17] <solidfox> also i went to the store in between the last two proofs if you are wondering why it took so long[23:22:23] <o][o> yeah! we are all taking your benchmarks[23:22:52] <solidfox> o][o: no i meant because of the timestamp since my 2nd one[23:23:05] <o][o> :)))))))))))[23:23:27] <solidfox> o][o: you could not bring me this far sir, you were an arrogant teacher[23:24:04] * o][o is not a teacher at all[23:24:13] <solidfox> same[23:24:13] * o][o refused all job offers that could lead to teaching[23:24:19] <solidfox> ah[23:24:28] <o][o> fucking students. never could bear with them :)[23:24:47] <solidfox> i could see that[23:24:55] <o][o> teaching jobs are underpaid[23:25:06] <solidfox> heh yeah[23:26:46] <solidfox> o][o: i can do equality proofs, next lecture is on inequality proofs[23:27:13] <solidfox> ill do that 2morrow i guess[23:38:09] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[23:49:07] *** Buoy172 <Buoy172!~Buoy172@95.86.6.187> has joined #gamedev[23:57:26] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev