January 21, 2019 
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January 21, 2019 [00:12:38] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[00:21:18] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[00:23:26] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidfox@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)[00:25:02] *** babuloseo <babuloseo!~babuloseo@unaffiliated/babuloseo> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:25:32] *** cheakoirccloud <cheakoirccloud!uid293319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ztpzgchljlsjipkk> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[00:27:37] <pulse> look at my tank, my tank is amazing[00:33:39] <R2robot> my tank will take you around the universe and all the other places too[00:36:03] *** pavonia <pavonia!~user@unaffiliated/siracusa> has joined #gamedev[01:00:04] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[01:01:44] *** babuloseo <babuloseo!~babuloseo@unaffiliated/babuloseo> has joined #gamedev[01:03:10] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidfox@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[01:15:42] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8811:9800:918c:1f03:c3ab:bb4a> has joined #gamedev[01:22:08] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:22:51] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #gamedev[01:28:38] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-24-166-114-198.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[01:30:51] <LastTalon> Badgers badgers badgers badgers[01:32:03] <solidfox> good song[01:32:03] <RoadKillGrill> snake![01:32:16] <solidfox> mushroom mushroom[01:33:00] <LastTalon> There he is; the electro gypsy[01:33:23] <LastTalon> In his caravan, its the future man[01:35:18] * LastTalon travels back to the days of yore[01:36:00] * o][o playing mtga[01:36:13] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nCqRmx3Dnw[01:36:42] <LastTalon> I've got a big bag of crabs here[01:40:02] <LastTalon> Everyone love magical trevor[01:54:05] <LastTalon> pulse, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia8ls-yiejQ[01:55:47] <pulse> i see your fresh crab prince and i raise you a thomas bel air https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VALJZBKFEFQ[01:56:15] <LastTalon> Thomas for best train 2019[02:01:39] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[02:06:27] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[02:17:33] *** Jakey <Jakey!~Jakey69@unaffiliated/jakey> has joined #gamedev[02:17:34] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[02:25:35] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Quit: i like big sprites and i cannot lie, these other games cant deny)[02:26:18] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[03:41:03] *** lurchman <lurchman!~lurchman@cpe-74-70-68-50.nycap.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[04:05:55] *** cheakoirccloud <cheakoirccloud!uid293319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aunkoiqtgrajukme> has joined #gamedev[04:06:09] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[04:22:24] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[04:37:49] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-178-005-239-025.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: refs)[04:43:48] *** mandeep <mandeep!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[04:45:29] *** bkeys <bkeys!~Thunderbi@c-76-17-206-162.hsd1.mn.comcast.net> has left #gamedev[04:56:14] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[04:57:14] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[05:11:15] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[05:12:37] *** sebbu <sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[05:18:44] *** sebbu <sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu> has joined #gamedev[05:21:36] <o][o> ui hui hui[05:27:25] *** batman_nair <batman_nair!~batman_na@111.92.79.208> has joined #gamedev[05:30:33] *** markweston <markweston!~markwesto@193.219.171.1> has left #gamedev ("sic - 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ZZZzzz…)[10:11:38] *** NiniGeo2 <NiniGeo2!~DragonGeo@47.157.89.138> has quit IRC (Quit: Nini peeps~)[10:15:58] *** NiniGeo2 <NiniGeo2!~DragonGeo@47.157.89.138> has joined #gamedev[10:16:44] <brainzap> halle luyah[10:17:24] <R2robot> amen[10:22:18] <DnzAtWrk> amen ra[10:23:44] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[10:24:23] <R2robot> Ramen[10:32:36] <brainzap> I have time for a new project[10:37:41] *** Mazon <Mazon!~Mazon@37.205.127.168> has joined #gamedev[10:37:59] <rts-sander> what do you think about heaps.io vs godot engine?[10:38:34] <rts-sander> godot seems more popular but heaps.io seems to have actual good selling games made with it, if only 2 (Northgard / dead cells)[10:45:21] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8a15:5300:6a25:6b12:99b9:b9dc> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[10:49:23] <brainzap> godot is also an editor which allows for fast level creation[10:49:25] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8a15:5300:2b88:5dc2:a4fe:7fb8> has joined #gamedev[10:49:30] <R2robot> never heard of heaps.io until just now[10:49:47] <R2robot> uses Haxe language[10:49:54] <R2robot> so there is that[10:50:54] <brainzap> HashLink is a virtual machine for the Haxe programming language. By targeting HashLink you are also able to generate Native C code for your project.[10:51:01] <brainzap> a native virtual machine[10:51:27] <R2robot> "class Base2D extends hxd.App {" I'm out[10:52:29] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df081-139.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[10:54:05] <brainzap> what if Haxe enables you to programm faster[10:54:17] <R2robot> ALso, TIL you can make tea from pine needles. AND it has 5x the vitamin C as freshly squeezed orange juice[10:55:32] <brainzap> so 0.0000001[10:58:15] <R2robot> your math is sliiiiiiightly off[11:02:02] <rts-sander> yes haxe is my favorite pet language, fun to use but very niche[11:08:30] <R2robot> all if you're already using it then heaps.io seems like a good option to try[11:08:36] <R2robot> all? wtf[11:09:07] <rts-sander> Armory is also based on Haxe / kha[11:09:44] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df081-139.dhcp.inet.fi> has joined #gamedev[11:09:48] <R2robot> the blender engine?[11:10:19] <R2robot> I don't know, that just seems like a bad idea[11:10:33] <rts-sander> haven't picked an engine yet, could also use haxe to generate code for whatever target and used interop / externs[11:18:24] <DnzAtWrk> as someone said before[11:18:32] <DnzAtWrk> blender engine is for presentations of blender scenes[11:18:46] <DnzAtWrk> fun to play around with though[11:19:22] <DnzAtWrk> maybe it'll be a good tool for prototyping physics based games *shrug*[11:24:58] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.124.99.198> has joined #gamedev[11:25:41] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[11:26:43] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[11:26:44] <rts-sander> idk about the specifics but it's cool that Haxe is still alive and kicking in gamedev :D[11:36:46] *** carldd <carldd!~carld@2001:2002:5ae0:3171:dc16:2108:930b:bbd1> has joined #gamedev[12:00:03] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[12:11:12] <Cahaan> I like godot a lot[12:11:52] <Cahaan> very elegant game engine, lots of features[12:12:09] <Cahaan> nice editor, not bloated[12:23:36] <mr_lou> I can understand why one would choose based on his favorite language.[12:27:17] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[12:28:42] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[12:43:27] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[12:50:57] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[13:11:50] <pulse> o~[13:11:53] <pulse> o~[13:12:01] <pulse> )) o~ ?[13:12:08] <pulse> )X~[13:12:16] <pulse> .[13:27:40] *** Kingsqueee <Kingsqueee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Quit: しょうがない)[13:33:50] <DarkUranium> mr_lou, can, or can't?[13:34:41] <rts-sander> it says can, so we assume there was no typo :D[13:36:06] <rts-sander> I can believe this![13:38:23] <pulse> ~musics~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAXUaaSEp7w[13:38:46] <mr_lou> DarkUranium, Can[13:39:40] <DarkUranium> ah; yeah[13:39:45] <DarkUranium> godot does seem nice, but I've yet to try it[13:40:43] <mr_lou> Topic is too old now. :->[13:42:07] <rts-sander> it caters to devs stuck in 2018[13:42:07] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:68c9:ea86:d047:ee4b> has joined #gamedev[13:43:26] <carldd> Can goddot compile to Web(GL)?[13:44:59] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:45:14] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@65-90-143-94.dyn.cable.fcom.ch> has joined #gamedev[13:51:56] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[13:53:23] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:55:18] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@65-90-143-94.dyn.cable.fcom.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[13:55:46] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[13:56:21] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[13:57:03] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[14:01:36] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[14:04:58] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[14:10:43] *** DnzAtWrk <DnzAtWrk!~DnzAtWrk@mobile-access-6df081-139.dhcp.inet.fi> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[14:14:06] <R2robot> i didn't like that godot used it's own language[14:16:59] <brainzap2> it is necessary, because all others suck[14:19:09] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has joined #gamedev[14:19:30] <brainzap2> it is DaScoot[14:20:07] <DarkUranium> carldd, pretty sure it does support HTML5, yes; but not 100%[14:20:11] <DarkUranium> (which would mean it ca use WebGL)[14:20:11] <jlebrech> been playing around with pygame, but heard pyglet is similar and newer[14:20:20] <DarkUranium> oink.[14:20:37] <DaScoot> it is me[14:21:35] <brainzap2> tell us from your adventure[14:23:33] <Cahaan> yes it does (godot)[14:24:46] *** Gavzooka <Gavzooka!~Gavzooka@host86-140-115-99.range86-140.btcentralplus.com> has joined #gamedev[14:26:00] *** macaronus <macaronus!macaronus@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/macaronus> has joined #gamedev[14:37:09] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8a15:5300:2b88:5dc2:a4fe:7fb8> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[14:38:25] *** Gavzooka <Gavzooka!~Gavzooka@host86-140-115-99.range86-140.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[14:44:01] <brainzap2> Donitzo: you know godot?[14:44:35] <rts-sander> I like that godot is completely open source[14:45:37] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:46:12] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[14:46:21] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:56:31] *** pavonia <pavonia!~user@unaffiliated/siracusa> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye!)[14:56:36] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidfox@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[15:33:26] *** batman_nair <batman_nair!~batman_na@111.92.79.208> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[15:37:05] <R2robot> open source it nice, but it depends on how many contributors there are.[15:37:14] <R2robot> godot happens to have a lot though[15:37:50] <R2robot> i used to 'watch' the repo on github and my notifications were constantly flooded with updates lol[15:45:50] <brainzap2> you can switch notification to only notify when new release[15:48:34] <pulse> name's switch, nintendo switch[15:48:37] *** dos11 <dos11!~dos1@neo900/coreteam/dos> has joined #gamedev[15:48:42] *** dos1 <dos1!~dos1@neo900/coreteam/dos> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[15:49:24] *** macaronus <macaronus!macaronus@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/macaronus> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:51:00] *** dos11 is now known as dos1[16:01:14] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[16:02:53] *** bnyio <bnyio!~bnyio@alcatraz.open-xchange.com> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)[16:05:57] *** macaronus <macaronus!macaronus@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/macaronus> has joined #gamedev[16:20:39] <R2robot> I like to 'watch' repos though. I had godot installed via brew, so I got auto release updates/notifs that way[16:20:47] <R2robot> I like to see the activity[16:22:46] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:22:54] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[16:27:46] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[16:29:21] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[16:31:30] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[16:34:36] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:34:36] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:34:45] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[16:35:00] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[16:47:57] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[16:49:06] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:49:20] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[16:49:56] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:50:01] *** lurchman <lurchman!~lurchman@cpe-74-70-68-50.nycap.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[16:51:21] *** babuloseo <babuloseo!~babuloseo@unaffiliated/babuloseo> has joined #gamedev[16:54:15] <brainzap2> people seem to fall for slot games, presented as chess games[16:55:59] *** freefork_afk is now known as freestyledork_[16:56:04] *** freestyledork_ is now known as freestyledork[16:56:14] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has joined #gamedev[16:59:34] *** brainzap2 <brainzap2!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[16:59:44] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has joined #gamedev[17:03:17] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@77.208.14.46.static.wline.lns.sme.cust.swisscom.ch> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[17:03:41] <rts-sander> like what?[17:04:43] <R2robot> On a scale of 1 to Post Malone, how high are you?[17:05:53] <rts-sander> I feel into the breach is kind of a chess game, sort of[17:07:38] <rts-sander> when I see it I wonder how it took them 4 years though, guess the creative process can be difficult at times[17:08:29] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[17:10:25] <R2robot> yeah, I hate when people that port games shit on the code they're porting. They didn't go through the creative process to arrive at the end result. It's not a linear road.[17:11:17] *** universecoder <universecoder!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has joined #gamedev[17:11:17] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has joined #gamedev[17:25:21] <o][o> I don't get it :D[17:25:33] <o][o> is the porting bad? is the code bad?[17:25:54] <o][o> where is the shit, exactly?[17:26:10] <o][o> they claim the original code is bad?[17:26:16] <R2robot> yes[17:26:18] <rts-sander> probably in the quality of the original code[17:26:19] <o][o> loool[17:26:23] <rts-sander> they didn't bother to clean it up[17:26:33] <o][o> I see. that will happen in the porting too[17:26:36] <R2robot> of course not.. because deadlines and whatnot[17:26:44] <o][o> it is shit that is gonna be REBOUNDED[17:27:01] <R2robot> there are creative and business pressures that get reflected in a tangled code base[17:27:04] * o][o shits on his own code[17:27:07] <R2robot> same[17:27:12] <o][o> it is the only way[17:27:29] <o][o> that slows me down a bit, but I can learn and be better later[17:27:30] <rts-sander> yeah if you keep the code clean all the time you cannot move fast[17:27:31] <R2robot> it's jsut dumb for a porter to try to make himself sound like a god of coding when he's not going through the same process.[17:28:05] <o][o> pulse disagrees with me[17:28:20] <R2robot> most people do :P[17:28:20] <rts-sander> yeah you know the constraints / scope already so it's easier to make[17:28:23] <o][o> :D[17:28:42] <o][o> R2robot: so I was not aware there were some people PROUD of porting games[17:28:47] <o][o> it is the cheapest thing ever :D[17:30:00] <rts-sander> maybe they resent the success the original game had and thought "I'm way better at this stuff" while porting[17:31:11] <rts-sander> I mean porting video games is like having a dream of being a rockstar but ending up being the hair stylist for a rockstar[17:32:04] <R2robot> o][o: it's not that they're proud of porting.. typical dev ego think they can code better than everyone else..[17:32:24] <R2robot> rts-sander: haha, true[17:32:31] <o][o> :D[17:32:43] <o][o> most portings are terrible[17:34:10] <R2robot> i'm sure there are a lot of dirty hacks to get them to work :)[17:40:45] <solidfox> yes this is why we need universal basic income so we can code better and make more art[17:41:18] <solidfox> if there is a real deadline for any reason, just hire more programmers who are making basic income so they can be volunteers[17:41:47] <R2robot> bringing in more programmers don't necessarily make things go faster[17:42:55] <R2robot> some places have grants that you can apply for though[17:43:01] <R2robot> make a pitch :)[17:45:54] <LastTalon> solidfox, that would be great.[17:46:40] <LastTalon> The closest thing I have to a grant here is for economic development. But the kind of economic development they're interested in is the kind that produces tangible assets. D:[17:47:14] <LastTalon> So sadly nothing for games.[17:47:35] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[17:48:25] <R2robot> check for 'art'[17:48:26] <R2robot> games = art[17:48:37] <LastTalon> I don't remember seeing anything for art.[17:48:42] <R2robot> bummer[17:48:44] <LastTalon> At least when I had checked.[17:48:48] <LastTalon> I suppose I can always check again.[17:49:04] *** cheakoirccloud <cheakoirccloud!uid293319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ykwvqatquxltdevd> has joined #gamedev[17:49:36] <LastTalon> We have a new governor stuff has probably changed.[17:49:54] <R2robot> where do you live?[17:50:03] <LastTalon> Wisconsin[17:50:07] <R2robot> ahh[17:50:22] <LastTalon> They're more interested in the industrial production kind of economic development.[17:50:25] <LastTalon> Sadly[17:50:28] <R2robot> booo[17:50:34] <solidfox> LastTalon: what does deltas mean[17:50:41] <solidfox> LastTalon: apply transform to deltas[17:50:50] <R2robot> the guy from grey alien games has/had a grant to dev games.. but he's in the UK[17:51:00] <LastTalon> solidfox, sounds like a graphics thing. Context?[17:51:21] <LastTalon> Deltas are usually representing a change.[17:51:34] <solidfox> LastTalon: yes i am editing a mesh, i scaled it, and rotated it. then i do "apply all transforms to deltas"[17:51:38] <LastTalon> My guess without context would be that there's a matrix keeping track of changes and you're applying transforms to them.[17:52:21] <solidfox> so it changes the position of each vertex so that they're in the same position, but the whole meshes rotation position and scale are 0[17:52:35] <solidfox> err scale would be 1[17:52:56] <LastTalon> Yeah.[17:53:02] <LastTalon> It looks like its what I guessed.[17:53:12] <solidfox> so deltas are the matrices?[17:53:22] <LastTalon> In blender delta transforms are additional transformations applies after the base transform.[17:53:49] <LastTalon> So you have your normal transformations done and then you can have more applied after those.[17:53:57] <LastTalon> Its apparently useful in animation.[17:54:03] <solidfox> i think of it like a commit[17:54:10] <LastTalon> Sort of.[17:54:10] <solidfox> is a delta like your history[17:54:17] <LastTalon> Not really.[17:54:19] <solidfox> ok[17:54:29] <R2robot> delta = change since last update, no?[17:54:31] <LastTalon> Basically you can remove a delta separately from others though.[17:54:53] <solidfox> hm i didnt see that part, it must be in another location in blender[17:54:58] <LastTalon> So like... if you have the base transform rotate and move something onto the ground[17:55:12] <LastTalon> Then you can use a delta for more specific animations once its on the ground.[17:55:57] <LastTalon> When you don't care about that specific animation you can get rid of that delta but you still have your character on the ground for a different animation while they're on the ground.[17:56:14] <LastTalon> Idk. I'm not an animator.[17:56:26] <solidfox> delta is the symbol for change in physics[17:56:37] <LastTalon> And from my perspective the deltas are just additional transforms that could all be combined into one transform.[17:56:49] <solidfox> LastTalon: i dont see a list of deltas anywhere though[17:57:58] <LastTalon> Idk.[17:58:51] <LastTalon> Says they're in Properties Editor -> Object -> Delta Transforms[17:59:25] <solidfox> Delta Transform singular[17:59:27] <solidfox> im looking at it[17:59:33] <solidfox> theres my scale from earlier[17:59:38] <LastTalon> This says it should be plural.[17:59:49] <LastTalon> Idk. I don't really do a lot of 3D art.[18:00:39] <LastTalon> But yeah, its just an additional transform besides the normal transform.[18:02:22] <solidfox> ok[18:02:25] <solidfox> that makes sense[18:02:37] <solidfox> i watched a video[18:02:42] <solidfox> and like if youre doing an animation[18:02:46] <LastTalon> This thing does say that its supposed to allow multiple deltas. Maybe its outdated docs?[18:03:12] <solidfox> you set your key frames already but your model at every frame is floating, where it should be on the ground[18:03:22] <solidfox> so you can go to delta transform to change them all[18:03:26] <LastTalon> Oh, see that probably makes more sense.[18:03:32] <LastTalon> I was describing it the other way around.[18:03:44] * LastTalon is not an animator[18:04:03] <solidfox> :v[18:04:10] <o][o> keyframes[18:04:11] <o][o> ftw[18:04:23] <solidfox> yes i remember when i first used a keyframe[18:04:31] <solidfox> apple shake on my hackintosh dell mini 10v[18:04:39] <solidfox> i was doing compositing[18:04:43] <LastTalon> Tweens![18:04:45] * o][o does ascii animation: _@_ _\_ _!_[18:05:04] <solidfox> i thought i wanted to be a vfx artist. then my friends and i all did a video together and it was hard af lol[18:05:12] <o][o> yeah[18:05:14] <o][o> it takes forever[18:05:19] <o][o> lotsa boring details to fix[18:05:34] <solidfox> now that im smarter it might be slightly easier but yeah, it would still take a long time[18:05:39] <solidfox> and be tedious[18:05:58] <LastTalon> You gotta enjoy the process.[18:06:11] <solidfox> yeah[18:06:14] <LastTalon> That's the same with everything.[18:06:22] <LastTalon> There are parts that take a long time and are tedious[18:06:32] <LastTalon> If you don't enjoy the process that isn't going to be for you.[18:06:44] <LastTalon> That's literally the reason I don't do 3D art[18:06:48] <LastTalon> Lol[18:07:11] <solidfox> i always get pretty frustrated when drawing[18:07:18] <LastTalon> Same with drawing.[18:07:25] <LastTalon> Just fiddly bits I do not get along with.[18:07:31] <solidfox> i wish i could choose to like the process, maybe someday i will[18:07:34] <LastTalon> But fiddly bits in programming? Sign me up[18:07:57] <solidfox> yeah seriously i have such a high frustration tolerance in programming[18:08:06] <sysRPL> here you go -> http://app.programmingfonts.org/#input[18:08:09] <solidfox> i rewrote parts of my tetris-clone2 project several times[18:08:30] <LastTalon> DejaVu Sans Mono FTW[18:08:31] <solidfox> took a little break after big changes but still.[18:10:00] <solidfox> what i thought apply to deltas was doing, was resetting my transform to normal, and actually recomputing the position of each point instead of having their position computed with the transform and original positions[18:10:27] <solidfox> but its actually going into a secondary transform property[18:10:27] <sysRPL> has anyone here written their own audio mixer feeding bytes as sound samples? has anyone here ported mp3, mod, and ogg formats to a mixer?[18:10:47] <sysRPL> if i was to continue with my game engine, i need to do those things[18:12:24] <sysRPL> the problem with my current mixer callback function is that it assumes upon callback that samples should either start at the callback time or continue[18:12:47] <sysRPL> when in reality they should start at any arbibrary time[18:13:27] <solidfox> if i click apply > scale it does what i was thinking apply all to deltas did.[18:13:30] <solidfox> but it only does scale[18:13:33] <sysRPL> and i am tired of fixing the audio mixer callback[18:13:36] <solidfox> there are separate buttons for each[18:23:04] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:68c9:ea86:d047:ee4b> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[18:31:13] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[18:47:53] *** babuloseo <babuloseo!~babuloseo@unaffiliated/babuloseo> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[18:49:59] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has joined #gamedev[18:52:29] *** programmerq <programmerq!~jeff@unaffiliated/programmerq> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[18:54:30] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:b5ef:191f:3116:4ed6> has joined #gamedev[19:01:57] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined #gamedev[19:04:55] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[19:15:42] *** babuloseo <babuloseo!~babuloseo@unaffiliated/babuloseo> has joined #gamedev[19:18:03] *** code_zombie <code_zombie!~code_zomb@2605:a601:aa1:da00:15a2:137e:7122:29c2> has joined #gamedev[19:18:13] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[19:18:32] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.124.99.198> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:19:30] *** programmerq <programmerq!~jeff@unaffiliated/programmerq> has joined #gamedev[19:26:51] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[19:36:18] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@92.40.86.137.threembb.co.uk> has joined #gamedev[19:39:16] *** rewind <rewind!~rewind@2a01:e35:87d1:600:c095:9c8e:ff01:f888> has joined #gamedev[19:40:58] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined #gamedev[19:41:30] *** rewind__ <rewind__!~rewind@2a01:e35:87d1:600:e15e:9fdd:655a:4cd5> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[20:13:23] *** sysRPL <sysRPL!~sysRPL@142.197.224.178> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[20:20:36] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[20:25:28] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[20:36:06] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:6df3:e084:356:45fa> has joined #gamedev[20:40:28] *** universecoder <universecoder!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[20:40:28] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[20:48:14] <o][o> level1:addPlayerCollideTileEvent(tFogo,function (player,level,tile,tilePos)[20:48:15] <o][o> player:die()[20:48:15] <o][o> end)[20:48:17] <o][o> \o/[20:49:51] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[20:56:14] *** terminx <terminx!~terminx@173-16-252-156.client.mchsi.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[20:56:46] *** terminx <terminx!~terminx@173-16-252-156.client.mchsi.com> has joined #gamedev[20:58:10] <o][o> DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE[21:07:11] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.192.186.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))[21:23:03] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[21:24:27] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@085083077157.dynamic.telenor.dk> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:24:44] *** babuloseo <babuloseo!~babuloseo@unaffiliated/babuloseo> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:28:46] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[21:29:58] <LunarJetman> if that is real code then that language is horrid.[21:30:12] <DarkUranium> LunarJetman, Lua.[21:30:17] <DarkUranium> And yes, it is horrid.[21:30:34] <LunarJetman> that is annoying as I will be implementing Lua later this year.[21:30:54] <DarkUranium> There are other options. Like Squirrel.[21:31:04] <LunarJetman> nah it has to be Lua[21:31:15] <DarkUranium> How come? What will you be implementing it *in*?[21:31:47] <LunarJetman> I won't be implementing it in anything however my language agnostic compiler and VM will be written in C++[21:32:20] <DarkUranium> I'm a bit lost, what does this has to do with implementing Lua?[21:32:22] <DarkUranium> LuaJIT?[21:32:39] <LunarJetman> Lua will be the first scripting language that my framework supports[21:32:49] <DarkUranium> Okay, then it doesn't have to be Lua.[21:32:51] <DarkUranium> Do Squirrel.[21:32:57] <DarkUranium> or Duktape, if perf isn't too critical.[21:32:58] <LunarJetman> gamedev peeps like Lua[21:33:03] <DarkUranium> They like Squirrel too.[21:33:24] <LunarJetman> well as my compiler and VM will be language agnostic I could do both[21:33:26] <DarkUranium> CSGO, War Thunder, L4D2, Portal 2, ...[21:39:41] *** cheakoirccloud <cheakoirccloud!uid293319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ykwvqatquxltdevd> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[21:41:03] *** Nokurn <Nokurn!~Nokurn@71-95-52-160.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - https://znc.in)[21:43:11] *** Nokurn <Nokurn!~Nokurn@71-95-52-160.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com> has joined #gamedev[21:43:48] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[21:45:39] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has joined #gamedev[21:49:28] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[21:56:43] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[22:02:43] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[22:03:16] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-178-005-230-000.178.005.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[22:04:24] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.124.99.198> has joined #gamedev[22:05:56] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SskKMbX6qmk[22:06:54] <R2robot> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FRD4uq1mVw[22:09:50] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined #gamedev[22:10:03] <R2robot> ignore the butthurt retaliation at the end :D[22:10:24] <LastTalon> Lua is bae[22:10:42] <R2robot> unless you want to do pattern matching[22:10:44] <R2robot> then no[22:10:51] <LastTalon> Eehh...[22:11:04] <LastTalon> I mean its default pattern matching is unusual.[22:11:07] <LastTalon> I'll give you that.[22:11:10] <R2robot> otherwise I like it[22:11:43] <LastTalon> Its like a lot of things with Lua though.[22:12:02] <LastTalon> It doesn't have "better" things so it can stay lightweight.[22:12:05] <R2robot> i'm currently using it with Corona[22:12:20] <LastTalon> I should write some regex pattern matching in Lua[22:12:25] <LastTalon> But its probably already done. :D[22:13:37] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[22:13:57] <R2robot> i think I saw one somewhere[22:13:59] <LastTalon> Honestly doing things in Lua is a lot of the time similar to doing things in C (he said surprising no one)[22:14:12] <R2robot> hehe[22:14:46] <R2robot> I used to do a lot of stuff in perl so I kinda hate pattern matching in anything else now[22:16:34] <LastTalon> Lua/C doesn't have very good pattern matching, but you can make it in Lua/C. How? Well you'll probably want a way to iterate through the string you're working on and build a string one character at a time efficiently. You won't be able to use any actual strings for technical reasons.[22:24:15] <LastTalon> Although all I can ever think about with pattern matching is haskell's pattern matching.[22:24:18] <LastTalon> Which is glorious.[22:25:09] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)[22:31:18] *** genr8_ <genr8_!~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc> has joined #gamedev[22:45:49] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.124.99.198> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:46:13] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:47:11] <o][o> DarkUranium: why is it bad?[22:48:26] <o][o> I'm doing amazing with Lua[22:48:45] <pulse> nothing's bad[22:48:48] <pulse> try making a game in fortran[22:48:49] <pulse> then talk about bad[22:49:04] <o][o> hehe, fortran was the worst for me[22:49:10] <o][o> even cobol I could withstand[22:49:39] <o][o> pulse: also I can dig the vibe of "nothing is bad, use what suits you, etc."[22:49:51] <o][o> I was just curious about what these twats saw in my code[22:49:58] <o][o> I think it was just trolling[22:51:11] <o][o> the way the Lua first class functions naturally bind into my C++ functions is really making me love all of this[22:51:11] <R2robot> yeah, i've never really heard people complain about lua syntax[22:51:20] <R2robot> main complaint is arrays start with 1 instead of 0[22:51:47] <o][o> yeah, I mostly use iterators and tables, so that does not affect me much[22:52:14] <o][o> I don't know why they came up with that design decision. pascal did the same. perhaps... nostalgia :D[22:53:04] <DarkUranium> Sure as hell beats the Basic in Excel.[22:53:06] <o][o> my guess is they wanted to be explicit with their indices to have more human readable code[22:53:09] <DarkUranium> Arrays start with 0 ...[22:53:14] <DarkUranium> ... but strings start with 1.[22:53:15] <o][o> since all is tables anyways[22:53:18] <DarkUranium> hoo-fucking-ray.[22:55:42] <R2robot> \(´▽`)/[23:03:57] <DarkUranium> Question. Do you guys think there's any point of trying to do STRIPS (or GOAP) in 2019?[23:04:13] <DarkUranium> Or should one go straight for HTN? Or even not do that, and just do behavior trees?[23:05:08] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[23:05:15] <R2robot> my answer is always the same. Do watcha want :)[23:07:23] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru3gH27Fn6E[23:07:49] <R2robot> good song[23:08:25] <o][o> DarkUranium: Delphi lists and collections start with 0, but their strings start in 1 ;)))))))[23:09:03] <DarkUranium> o][o, same as that Basic.[23:13:55] <LunarJetman> your Lua code looked horrid.[23:14:05] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.124.99.198> has joined #gamedev[23:15:37] *** brimonk <brimonk!~brian@unaffiliated/brimonk> has joined #gamedev[23:16:00] <brimonk> Is the question for 2018 gamedevs still relevant?[23:16:33] <pulse> time is frozen here so yes[23:16:57] <DarkUranium> R2robot, it is a serious question though, because I'd like to know what to pursue.[23:17:10] *** Donitzo <Donitzo!~Donitzo@85-156-203-108.elisa-laajakaista.fi> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[23:17:46] <R2robot> my answer was serious as well[23:18:42] <R2robot> the question is like those that ask 'whats the best language'[23:18:58] *** Donitzo <Donitzo!~Donitzo@85-156-203-108.elisa-laajakaista.fi> has joined #gamedev[23:19:00] <R2robot> you're going to get 100 very opinionated answers[23:19:41] <LunarJetman> the best language is C++.[23:19:41] <R2robot> as if there is even a 'best'[23:20:40] <LunarJetman> there isn't a best language but if there was it would be C++ :)[23:21:13] <pulse> 100 people 100 best langs[23:21:29] <pulse> i've seen people argue for 3 hours how C is the best lang[23:21:35] * pulse triple-shrugs[23:21:53] <R2robot> opinion be like that[23:22:05] <R2robot> people don't think it be like that but it do[23:23:04] * R2robot still likes C[23:23:46] <DarkUranium> R2robot, reminds me of the saying about Eve Online[23:24:07] <DarkUranium> "If you get 6 Eve Online players into a room and ask them a question, you will get 7 answers and probably start a war."[23:24:19] <R2robot> lol[23:28:26] <LunarJetman> C++ made C pointless.[23:29:01] <DarkUranium> LunarJetman, one word: BeOS.[23:29:03] <pulse> that's like saying cars made bicycles pointless[23:29:06] <pulse> or something[23:29:16] <pulse> only a sith deals in absolutes :p[23:29:30] <R2robot> BeOS could have been great[23:29:44] <R2robot> but was actually kinda pointless on standard intel boxes[23:30:03] <LunarJetman> DarkUranium: don't get it[23:30:44] <LunarJetman> just because your hero Linus likes C and hates C++ it doesn't make him right[23:31:37] <R2robot> BeOS made more sense and was actually exciting when it was announced with the BeBox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeBox[23:36:26] <DarkUranium> R2robot, and using C++ as the kernel API was a major mistake.[23:36:37] <DarkUranium> Sure, make headers using C++ wrappers, knock yourself out.[23:36:42] <DarkUranium> But don't use it at the API (or rather, ABI) level.[23:37:01] <DarkUranium> Haiku is still stuck with GCC 2.9.x[23:37:42] <R2robot> RIP Be[23:38:30] <pulse> if i had one complaint about C++ is that it's grown into a mess[23:38:40] <pulse> should have kept it simple[23:39:58] <DarkUranium> pulse, design by committee + not knowing when to say "no" to a feature ...[23:40:17] <pulse> "someone's bound to find THIS useful" :D[23:41:41] <R2robot> :D[23:46:15] <LunarJetman> once C++ gets an ABI your point will be moot.[23:46:50] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:b5ef:191f:3116:4ed6> has quit IRC (Quit: The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing)[23:47:35] <pulse> the one thing C has going over C++ is simplicity[23:47:42] <pulse> i like C a lot but i haven't used it in years[23:47:50] <LunarJetman> the ony thing C++ has going over C is complexity.[23:47:56] <LunarJetman> the one thing C++ has going over C is complexity.[23:47:57] <pulse> C++ is obviously more streamlined for modern dev[23:48:12] <pulse> LunarJetman, your appeal is mostly emotional and not objective so i can't take it seriously[23:48:19] <pulse> i love C++ as much as the next guy[23:48:23] <pulse> but objectively it's a mess[23:48:31] <pulse> C is downright primitive by comparison[23:48:34] <LunarJetman> then you obviously don't understand the benefits of complexity done right[23:48:41] <pulse> again appeal to emotion[23:48:42] <pulse> lol[23:48:44] * pulse gives up[23:48:45] <LunarJetman> not at all[23:48:46] <R2robot> lol[23:48:47] <brimonk> I'm sorry, what?[23:48:48] <LunarJetman> this is a fact[23:49:01] <brimonk> Complexity for the sake of complexity?[23:49:05] <LunarJetman> no[23:49:08] <brimonk> Is that what I heard?[23:49:11] <brimonk> Sounds like it.[23:49:18] <R2robot> it's amazing how the toxic twins go so hard to defend C++[23:49:58] <pulse> LunarJetman, https://quuxplusone.github.io/blog/2019/01/20/std-less-nightmare/[23:49:59] <LunarJetman> C++ pulls complexity from the C++ program you write into the language itself and libraries; the simplest programming language of all is asm but try writing anything non trivial in it[23:50:04] <pulse> complexity breeds problems like this[23:50:18] <pulse> it's impossible for a human being to understand everything about C++[23:50:19] <LunarJetman> I disagree[23:50:32] <LunarJetman> complexity is a good thing if it is done right[23:50:32] <R2robot> pulse: he's been trying to pick a fight for the last 15 minutes[23:50:42] <pulse> hah[23:51:08] <o][o> he just said my Lua code was horrid, like it were a dogma. no explanations at all :([23:51:27] <o][o> dunno why he does that[23:51:29] <R2robot> yeah, he's toxic af[23:51:29] <aeth> What you wind up with is a strange situation. C is basically set in stone from the early 1990s with very few additions since then and that makes it unnecessarily hard to use, and it seems archaic. C++ is... well... it's basically technical debt. It has gone through like 3-4 different styles over the years and every single one is still in the language. And yet, you have to choose between the two for very-high-performance applications.[23:52:08] <aeth> So C's timeless, in a bad way, and C++ is basically a bunch of geological layers of proglang design in one language.[23:52:29] <aeth> Except to see two completely new ways of using C++ in the next 20 years, while not removing the current and old ways.[23:52:58] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@c-98-252-1-155.hsd1.de.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[23:53:14] *** LunarJetman is now known as toxic_af[23:53:34] <aeth> C++ probably isn't bad if you control the entirety of your program, but one of the reasons to use C++ is the massive amount of libraries, most of which are legacy C++ by now.[23:53:34] <pulse> :D[23:53:56] <o][o> C isn't timeless. did you forget C11?[23:54:02] <pulse> the way i use C++ is i pick the smallest workable subset and work from there[23:54:10] <pulse> if i need some other feature i very carefully examine if i actually need it[23:54:14] <pulse> and only then add it to the pile[23:54:19] <aeth> o][o: The additions to C are extremely minimal compared to most languages in the same time span, except, of course, languages that didn't really get any additions at all.[23:54:22] <pulse> i avoid 99% of high level mess that way[23:54:44] <aeth> o][o: I mean, wow, that's a very tiny list compared to what you see in most proglangs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C11_(C_standard_revision)#Changes_from_C99[23:54:45] <pulse> whereas with C you can use pretty much all of the language and have a workable set[23:54:51] <toxic_af> trans women aren't women.[23:55:25] <R2robot> attention whores be desperate for attention[23:56:09] <aeth> pulse: The problems with C++ even when you subset are (1) the build system, (2) each of the 3 major OSes has its own preferred compiler (GCC, LLVM, MSVC) so you deal with cross-OS *and* cross-implementation issues, and (3) most of your libraries are going to be in a style you don't use.[23:56:34] <pulse> yeah, all of those are true[23:56:47] <pulse> frankly it's a miracle we get anything done[23:58:27] *** Kingsqueee <Kingsqueee!~kingsquee@S01069050ca3c92d3.va.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[23:59:15] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined #gamedev[23:59:33] <brimonk> I don't think C is timeless, there are two bad things about C - standard lib is lacking some nicer features (IMO) and operator precidence.[23:59:49] <brimonk> But, you can program your own better stdlib