January 12, 2019 
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January 12, 2019 [00:06:58] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@2a02:1205:505c:2ab0:5175:ab38:5c18:d6ad> has joined #gamedev[00:07:53] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[00:16:37] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[00:20:12] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has joined #gamedev[00:21:22] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[00:28:22] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[00:50:04] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[00:52:19] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has joined #gamedev[00:53:44] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[01:11:12] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:11:12] *** genr8_ <genr8_!~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc> has quit IRC (Quit: My computer is probably rebooting.)[01:11:38] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:cc4c:bab8:f5ec:d624> has quit IRC (Quit: The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing)[01:14:40] *** LunarJetman2 <LunarJetman2!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has joined #gamedev[01:15:52] *** terminx <terminx!~terminx@173-16-252-156.client.mchsi.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[01:16:56] *** NiniGeo2 <NiniGeo2!~NiniGeo2@c-73-178-72-18.hsd1.nj.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[01:18:51] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-094-222-031-234.094.222.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[01:19:02] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.125.57.214> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[01:21:30] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has joined #gamedev[01:22:37] *** terminx <terminx!~terminx@209.58.139.15> has joined #gamedev[01:31:36] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[01:32:47] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@2a02:1205:505c:2ab0:5175:ab38:5c18:d6ad> has quit IRC (Quit: krychu)[01:35:38] *** macza <macza!~macza@d75-157-125-9.bchsia.telus.net> has joined #gamedev[01:36:52] *** macza <macza!~macza@d75-157-125-9.bchsia.telus.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:37:28] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has joined #gamedev[01:44:13] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has joined #gamedev[01:53:23] *** Jakey <Jakey!~Jakey69@unaffiliated/jakey> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[01:53:33] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:39b0:b0fa:e5fc:5ea4> has joined #gamedev[02:17:56] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[02:35:38] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[03:08:17] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[03:08:17] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has joined #gamedev[03:27:08] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has joined #gamedev[03:34:36] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-24-166-114-198.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[03:36:11] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[03:41:02] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidfox@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[03:41:38] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[03:53:36] *** terminx <terminx!~terminx@209.58.139.15> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[04:01:44] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-094-222-031-234.094.222.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: refs)[04:15:45] *** LunarJetman2 <LunarJetman2!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[04:17:25] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[04:22:25] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[04:32:17] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has joined #gamedev[04:39:21] *** sysfault <sysfault!uid341729@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pvkatxvulzcjducl> has joined #gamedev[04:40:13] <sysfault> What book would you guys recommend for game design? Beginner[04:42:44] <solidfox> whats the best gamedev chair[04:43:02] <solidfox> sysfault: i asked the same thing and was told to just do tutorials incessantly[04:43:07] <solidfox> i mean told incessantly[04:43:38] <sysfault> Think I’ll end up grabbing game engine architecture[04:43:48] <sysfault> Another the art of game design[04:44:00] <aeth> sysfault: http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/contents.html[04:44:08] <solidfox> sysfault: btw, if you mesh ever appears inverted in the game engine, like inside out, you need to check your normals in your 3d model[04:44:12] <sysfault> Amazon’s bestsellers and the feedback is awesome[04:44:22] <solidfox> sysfault: its called inverted normals[04:44:26] <solidfox> aeth: thanks[04:45:02] <aeth> That helps you get the idea with how to structure your code[04:45:15] <aeth> (Your engine/framework might handle a lot of that but at least you'll learn how it works)[04:45:16] <solidfox> woah i had this bookmarked from long ago LOL[04:45:55] <solidfox> im gonna get a job at walmart i think[04:46:05] <solidfox> that way i dont run out of money learning gamedev[04:46:32] <sysfault> I want to learn such to particularly program some interesting things and learn how to systematically model code while I learn python[04:47:01] <sysfault> I think game development will be neat[04:47:33] <solidfox> that barely made sense, but good luck[04:52:56] <sysfault> Game programming usually incorporates mathematics, logic, etc so in essence it’ll be teaching me a lot of programming design concepts[04:53:42] <sysfault> I’ll be learning python henceforth and I think focusing on the Lang and game programming will give me a solid foundation[04:54:55] <aeth> sysfault: You could try learning Godot. They have a Python-like scripting language, and they opened up support to third party languages so they might have actual Python support by now.[04:55:50] <sysfault> I’ll take a look[04:56:25] <solidfox> sysfault: is english your first or second language[04:56:40] <sysfault> Ninth[04:56:53] <solidfox> sugoi ne[04:57:08] <sysfault> I’m multilingual[04:57:13] <sysfault> Kidding[04:57:15] <solidfox> sysfault: simpler word choice is better in english[04:57:25] <solidfox> wait what now im confused[04:57:37] <sysfault> But this isn’t grammar class it it?[04:57:44] <sysfault> Didn’t think so[04:58:02] <solidfox> no im giving a value judgement, its my opinion. not grammar[04:58:35] <sysfault> Your opinion indeed. Fortunately, I didn’t ask for it[04:58:44] <solidfox> haha fair enough[04:59:25] <solidfox> yes, well im particularly going to be doing such on the internet of the commerce for items that i so desire. be back later.[05:00:03] <solidfox> be back at a time later than now.[05:00:08] <solidfox> (ie the present)[05:00:30] <sysfault> Later[05:00:43] <sysfault> And yea godot supports python 3.0[05:01:03] <sysfault> Python 3 rather[05:01:09] <sysfault> In godot 3.0[05:01:14] <aeth> I'd hope PyPy Python 3 rather than proper Python 3[05:01:20] <aeth> performance matters more than features in gamedev[05:02:22] <aeth> (I mean when choosing between multiple implementations of the same language)[05:02:35] <dostoyevsky> sysfault: I haven't read a good programming book in like a decade or so..[05:03:13] <dostoyevsky> sysfault: and for something like e.g. unity3d a book would be outdated a month after publishing[05:03:56] <sysfault> But pypy is slower than cpython right?[05:04:04] <solidfox> yes i've decided to just dive head first into gamedev rather than reading. i mean. its not like i expect to join a AAA game team[05:04:27] <sysfault> Wow really? Are things changing that rapidly?[05:04:40] <solidfox> what i really need to get better at is art. i suck at that lol[05:04:45] <sysfault> The essentials is mmm[05:04:55] <sysfault> The essentials I’d need to learn rather[05:04:56] <solidfox> im a programming god, so not much to read about[05:05:02] <sysfault> Lol[05:05:03] <solidfox> just need to learn the tools in that area[05:05:22] <sysfault> Well programming is artistic[05:05:35] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[05:05:38] <dostoyevsky> sysfault: I have one book blender actually... But I usually use video tutorials for everything[05:05:42] <solidfox> not the way i see it.[05:05:56] <sysfault> You must write some ugly code[05:06:01] <solidfox> i get that there is good and bad code, but i dont see that as art. that is more black and white[05:06:04] <sysfault> Link me to your GitHub[05:06:32] <solidfox> that is right and wrong, not art[05:06:48] <sysfault> If it was black and white there would be much better looking code out there[05:06:51] <solidfox> sysfault: https://github.com/ericshawlinux[05:06:53] <sysfault> Modular reusable code[05:07:13] <solidfox> sysfault: rustlang game is easy to pick on. check it out[05:07:30] <solidfox> im gonna delete it once i finish my c++ tetris clone[05:07:51] *** terminx <terminx!~terminx@209.58.139.15> has joined #gamedev[05:07:53] <sysfault> Heh a ruster[05:08:04] <sysfault> I was looking at rust earlier today[05:08:04] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:44f0:6600:71a2:8b47:f039:570d> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[05:08:36] *** Twipply <Twipply!~Twipply@unaffiliated/twipply> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[05:08:38] <sysfault> Is that your chainsaw nowadays?[05:08:48] <solidfox> what are you asking?[05:09:12] *** gogoprog <gogoprog!~gogoprog@2a02:a03f:44f0:6600:71a2:8b47:f039:570d> has joined #gamedev[05:09:22] <sysfault> Meaning is that your de facto language nowadays[05:09:33] <solidfox> no rust isnt my language of choice[05:09:37] <sysfault> The language you use daily[05:09:41] <sysfault> Ohh ok[05:09:55] <solidfox> "is that your chainsaw nowadays" lol[05:10:02] <dostoyevsky> sysfault: have you been living under a rock for the last decade?[05:10:41] <sysfault> I’ve been using drugs[05:10:48] <solidfox> sysfault: i see programming as more scientific. funnily enough when i try to draw im tempted to just start measuring things and tracing.. things that a scientist would do.[05:11:00] <solidfox> compositing[05:11:30] <sysfault> Truly though. I’ve been dancing on top of rocks oblivious to everything else. I’m in recovery trying to find my way again.[05:11:34] <dostoyevsky> solidfox: isn't gamedevelopment a bit difficult in rust? Not many graphics libraries, no?[05:11:34] <sysfault> No more Oxycodone![05:11:48] <solidfox> dostoyevsky: there was sdl2, but no opengl[05:12:07] <sysfault> solidfox: yea that doesn’t sound too good[05:12:07] <solidfox> dostoyevsky: my c++ tetris clone is going to be sdl2 as well[05:12:27] <dostoyevsky> solidfox: sdl2 -- is that like a canvas in HTML5?[05:13:00] <sysfault> Huh[05:13:28] <solidfox> dostoyevsky: its like 2D rendering i think. could be 3D if you do your own matrix maths, but it also does sound i think[05:13:49] <solidfox> dostoyevsky: i'm not sure if its comparable to the <canvas>[05:14:12] <solidfox> i mean they both do graphics. so in that way, sure.[05:14:18] <solidfox> beyond that, not sure[05:16:09] <solidfox> dostoyevsky: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_DirectMedia_Layer[05:16:15] <sysfault> Sdl is a library for low level access to peripherals and devices.. keyboard mouse joystick audio graphics[05:17:15] <solidfox> idk if its low level, but otherwise, well said.[05:17:32] <sysfault> Bitcoin core is pretty wild[05:18:07] <solidfox> i think 2 of the 3 changes i made to bitcoin core were wiped out[05:18:27] <dostoyevsky> solidfox: so SDL is a bit like directx?[05:18:39] <solidfox> dostoyevsky: i think directx is probably more advanced.[05:19:51] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has joined #gamedev[05:20:26] <sysfault> solidfox: well I guess that depends on your idea of low level. Isn’t that right English teacher? Most libraries do not have access to a systems hardware directly, there are usually more abstractions so I would call it pretty low level[05:23:02] <sysfault> solidfox: was there an existing api you had to use to manage bitcoin transactions? Or was the interface and mechanisms created from scratch?[05:23:04] <solidfox> sysfault: i didn't mean to upset you.[05:23:24] <sysfault> solidfox: nah I’m joking with you man[05:23:29] <sysfault> It’s all love.[05:23:35] <sysfault> Just picking at ya now[05:23:47] <solidfox> ok[05:23:54] <solidfox> sysfault: bitcoin is a big mess.[05:24:11] <solidfox> sysfault: its also highly inefficient[05:24:26] <aeth> Most games and game engines ultimately use SDL or some equivalent rather than support 5+ APIs[05:24:26] <sysfault> Heh I kind of figured such.[05:24:31] <aeth> SDL is mostly used to handle windows/input[05:24:40] <solidfox> sysfault: its inefficient by design.[05:24:41] <aeth> SDL does far more, but there are more minimalist equivalents[05:24:59] <sysfault> What is the original bitcoin algorithm written in?[05:25:13] <aeth> If you only want to use Python just use Godot though[05:25:16] <solidfox> sysfault: why don't you ask #bitcoin[05:25:38] <aeth> Pygame is an opensource framework that's ancient, Godot is a new open source game engine so it's way better for you[05:25:38] <solidfox> sysfault: i only keep that repo so links to my commits in pull requests dont dissappear[05:25:44] <sysfault> Aah[05:25:53] <solidfox> but idk if its really worth it[05:26:18] <solidfox> having to talk about it and whatnot.. might be too much cost just to preserve some links in githubs broken pull-request system[05:26:36] <sysfault> aeth: sure thing. I’ve already bookmarked some documentation for the morning[05:26:58] <aeth> and I'm probably not exaggerating by saying your options are pygame and godot in Python[05:27:03] <aeth> Lua seems to be more popular for gamedev[05:27:14] <sysfault> Fresh start. I’ll still look at some other things and at some point write some game apps in another language I suppose[05:27:21] <sysfault> Such as C or D[05:27:45] <dostoyevsky> Is Trine 2 a popular game?[05:27:45] <sysfault> Yea I seen ppl talking about LUA in conjunction with C for game dev[05:31:15] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mobile_c@2405:7f00:8a02:df00:b5a4:754b:dc79:75f> has joined #gamedev[05:31:54] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has joined #gamedev[05:32:02] *** mobile_c_ <mobile_c_!~mobile_c@cpe-172-192-56-45.qld.foxtel.net.au> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[05:32:36] *** perplexity <perplexity!~perplexed@unaffiliated/perplexity> has joined #gamedev[05:32:55] <aeth> Lua has two advantages over Python: It's sandboxable and it's very small (and thus very embeddable)[05:34:26] <dostoyevsky> A Python installation is easily 100M... so you are going to embed your game in python :)[05:35:42] <aeth> doesn't matter if your game is 5GB + which is normal even for smallish games[05:35:50] <aeth> even 2D is 1 GB + now[05:35:58] <aeth> only plae it matters is mobile[05:37:33] <dostoyevsky> aeth: for mobile one could simply downscale all the textures, no?[05:38:01] <dostoyevsky> aeth: Most of the GBs is for graphics, no?[05:38:08] <aeth> dostoyevsky: I'm saying mobile is the only place where embedded whatever is going to be larger than assets, potentially[05:40:47] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[05:48:10] <aeth> big 2D indie games *used* to be in the hundreds of MB but they seem to have bloated since then[05:52:48] <solidfox> sysfault: take care[05:52:56] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidfox@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)[06:00:50] *** babuloseo <babuloseo!~babuloseo@unaffiliated/babuloseo> has joined #gamedev[06:01:01] *** S_Gautam <S_Gautam!uid286066@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dxdaenwbifwurbyd> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[06:07:10] <myke> isn't that because resolutions keep getting higher?[06:11:39] <cantelope> codegolf.tk has a new design https://codegolf.tk/a/359[06:18:07] *** regreg <regreg!~regreg@85.121.54.224> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[06:18:37] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[06:22:47] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[06:23:39] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@085083077157.dynamic.telenor.dk> has joined #gamedev[06:30:36] <cantelope> the old format lives here https://legacy.codegolf.tk/[06:35:16] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)[06:35:23] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:401a:3b5a:d87a:d1bc> has joined #gamedev[06:49:02] *** macza <macza!~macza@d75-157-125-9.bchsia.telus.net> has joined #gamedev[06:49:48] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-24-166-114-198.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC 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#gamedev[10:34:07] *** xrash <xrash!~xrash@191.8.113.169> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[11:14:09] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has joined #gamedev[11:18:44] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[11:21:35] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[11:21:50] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has joined #gamedev[11:24:53] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@2a02:1205:505c:2ab0:5175:ab38:5c18:d6ad> has joined #gamedev[11:27:41] <Donitzo> zero ranger was a real hidden gem[11:27:58] <Donitzo> and it's finnish too[11:28:21] <brainzap> go go power rangers[11:28:51] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3O5Zj6hayE[11:29:01] <Donitzo> the author no doubt took a lot of inspiration from cho ren shga[11:29:04] <Donitzo> sha*[11:29:08] <Donitzo> another brilliant shmup[11:30:30] 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ZZZzzz…)[14:52:27] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has joined #gamedev[15:08:59] *** solidfox <solidfox!~solidfox@unaffiliated/snake/x-2550465> has joined #gamedev[15:14:18] *** pavonia <pavonia!~user@unaffiliated/siracusa> has joined #gamedev[15:15:09] *** regreg <regreg!~regreg@85.121.54.224> has joined #gamedev[15:16:28] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined #gamedev[15:17:32] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[15:23:13] *** notus <notus!uid244649@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-luygpopehwuwiycg> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[15:43:53] *** notus <notus!uid244649@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-einlslhuowuatkdv> has joined #gamedev[15:48:49] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has joined #gamedev[15:52:13] *** baudejogos <baudejogos!~sjw@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #gamedev[15:53:07] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:53:28] <brainzap> ["hip","hip"] array[15:56:26] <baudejogos> lol[16:10:18] *** LunarJetman2 <LunarJetman2!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has joined #gamedev[16:10:40] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[16:14:41] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[16:15:06] *** xrash <xrash!~xrash@191.8.113.169> has joined #gamedev[16:20:17] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has joined #gamedev[16:20:40] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has joined #gamedev[16:22:33] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-094-222-031-234.094.222.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[16:25:37] *** jlebrech <jlebrech!~jlebrech@89.165.136.2> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[16:42:53] *** david2_ <david2_!~davidbach@212-186-25-215.cable.dynamic.surfer.at> has joined #gamedev[16:43:15] *** iLoVue <iLoVue!~DinoJS@41.107.45.109> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[16:47:18] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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I'll hang out with you tonight, since the Unity channel is too slow for my current sugar levels :| *buzzes around*[19:58:50] <pulse> fine, but only this one time[20:01:55] <pulse> we never discuss games though[20:01:58] <pulse> only dragons[20:02:17] <solidfox> SaraDR: right "sugar"[20:02:55] <SaraDR> pulse, good artists are like dragons. They are imagainary, but if you do catch one, make sure to lock it up in your basement, so it doesn't escape?[20:03:26] <pulse> sounds about right to me[20:04:47] <solidfox> SaraDR: what do you mean good artists are imaginary[20:05:30] <pulse> they exist in aether[20:06:34] <pulse> did da vinci ever make a game[20:07:52] <SaraDR> If you look at it quantative, the greatest artists out there, never finished a computer game.[20:08:08] <SaraDR> (finished as in, made)[20:09:30] <SaraDR> But considering I made all my art for my games with ms paint, Iunno if that counts in the other direction either lol[20:09:44] * pulse scratches head[20:09:57] <SaraDR> MsPaint is too powerful :)[20:11:32] <pulse> 3powerful7me[20:16:15] *** cnidario <cnidario!~dont@47.60.213.179> has joined #gamedev[20:17:03] <pulse> time for my 4 hour nap[20:34:13] <LastTalon> Speaking of which, what are some good programs for pixel art? I've been looking at aseprite.[20:48:56] *** regreg <regreg!~regreg@85.121.54.224> has joined #gamedev[20:54:14] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has joined #gamedev[21:03:16] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[21:05:36] <notus> thats a good program[21:05:52] <notus> photoshop is fine as well, i think youll find most tutorials using PS or aseprite[21:09:19] <solidfox> gimp takes ages to start up, but it ain't bad[21:09:45] <solidfox> hmm[21:09:58] <solidfox> maybe there aren't very many pixel art tools in gimp though[21:10:00] <solidfox> not sure[21:10:12] <solidfox> (besides the pencil)[21:19:23] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined #gamedev[21:21:33] <o][o> gimp is crude[21:25:41] *** rewind <rewind!~rewind@2a01:e35:87d1:600:385d:ae2a:1eef:1ca> has joined #gamedev[21:42:03] <rindolf> solidfox: hi, sup?[21:44:42] <o][o> MTG Arena is fun, but it takes ages to build a decent deck there[21:48:04] <solidfox> rindolf: not much, just adding sdl2 functionality to my tetris clone and having to write an entity compoent pattern for that[21:48:14] <o][o> o_O[21:48:14] <solidfox> rindolf: how are you?[21:48:35] <o][o> I never realized how hard was to make a tetris clone[21:49:03] <solidfox> o][o: it was basically done in curses, except the part where you type your name to save your score[21:49:09] <rindolf> solidfox: i released https://github.com/thewml/website-meta-language 2.12.1[21:49:15] <solidfox> rindolf: ah nice[21:49:43] <rindolf> solidfox: i think only about 5 ppl still care about it/[21:49:54] <o][o> I would just use a grid and pieces over it[21:51:22] <solidfox> o][o: i was thinking of just making a menu class and keeping all my existing code, but i wonder if someone looks at it, maybe they will think i should have used a games pattern[21:52:33] <o][o> lol, seriously. tetris is really simple. no need for all this bullshit[21:52:35] <solidfox> the menus are much more complicated with sdl2 because of texture and and surface objects that will be allocated and need to be freed[21:52:48] <o][o> make pieces, a grid and the pieces move inside it[21:52:56] <solidfox> o][o: yeah that part is all done[21:53:04] <o][o> so the game is done[21:53:15] <solidfox> but what about sdl2 and the issue with the menus i mentioned[21:53:38] <aeth> Allocating and freeing is not an issue for 99% of modern games, at least ones indies can make.[21:53:47] <aeth> If possible, allocate it all up front, free it all at the end.[21:53:58] <aeth> People already have 8-16 GB RAM just so they can run their much fancier games.[21:54:08] <solidfox> yes hence the entity component pattern to encapsulate these resources[21:54:35] <solidfox> but yeah im starting it and it seems complex[21:54:37] <aeth> And even if it's too much for RAM, you just need to redefine what "front" and "end" is, e.g. level boundaries[21:54:38] <solidfox> maybe even circular[21:55:13] <solidfox> (my OOP design is somewhat lacking, so i also need to imagine how the classes should work, and try different things out)[21:55:24] *** iLoVue <iLoVue!~DinoJS@41.111.121.244> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:55:55] <solidfox> ah yes, menus and labels in game will both be allocating things[21:56:22] <solidfox> and if your score changes, then perhaps i'd need to free the last score and make a new surface and texture[21:56:38] <aeth> what[21:57:17] <solidfox> SDL_Surface* surfaceMessage = TTF_RenderText_Solid(Sans, "put your text here", White);[21:57:26] <solidfox> this is allocated memory[21:57:32] <solidfox> i dont think you can just change the text[21:57:42] <o][o> SDL sucks. ECS sucks more[21:57:52] <o][o> you will be bike shedding forever[21:57:53] <aeth> Well, first of all, SDL's 2D is kind of legacy. It's far more efficient just to use SDL for OpenGL, even for 2D.[21:58:00] <solidfox> wtf this guy put the asterisk on the left instead of the right[21:58:02] <aeth> But why not just do 0-9 as different textures?[21:58:15] <aeth> It's a retro game, no need for perfect kerning on the score[21:58:15] <LunarJetman> SDL is good enough and ECS is orthogonal to SDL[21:58:26] <solidfox> aeth: ah[21:58:39] <solidfox> yes do each digit and each letter and draw them individually[21:58:49] <aeth> Well, fixed text could be its own texture[21:58:54] <solidfox> still need an over-engineered complicated pattern for that[21:58:59] <LunarJetman> also, I only use SDL for creating windows, input and audio; I do graphics myself (OpenGL)[21:59:02] <aeth> Each letter means you have to handle kerning, which you might want to do.[21:59:24] <aeth> Unless you're using a monospace font, you have to handle kerning.[21:59:24] <solidfox> opengl doesnt do input handling?[21:59:41] <aeth> solidfox: OpenGL is a graphics API. For windows, input, and audio, you use OS APIs[21:59:47] <solidfox> ah i see[21:59:49] <aeth> There are like 4-5 OS APIs you'd have to handle without SDL[22:00:03] <aeth> For that reason, the best alternative to SDL is another portability library like SDL[22:00:07] <solidfox> are TTF fonts windows only[22:00:22] <aeth> Perhaps some very large engines write things natively, but no one else does. And this isn't even guaranteed on all platforms. Iirc, Source uses SDL for Linux.[22:00:59] <aeth> solidfox: If you're concerned about fonts, you have to ship your own. Windows, macOS, and Linux all have different sets of fonts built in.[22:01:14] <solidfox> sigh[22:01:18] <aeth> noto is a good choice. https://github.com/googlei18n/noto-fonts/[22:01:30] <aeth> DejaVu is another good family choice[22:01:36] <aeth> You want a really large font family under a FOSS license.[22:01:44] <solidfox> ok[22:01:54] <solidfox> yes[22:02:15] <aeth> see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DejaVu_fonts and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noto_fonts[22:02:23] <aeth> Those are probably the main options if you want to support many languages.[22:02:47] <solidfox> i wonder if i will ever finish this tetris clone[22:02:50] <aeth> If you're willing to use different fonts for different languages, you have more options: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Free_and_open-source_typography[22:02:52] <solidfox> i cant even make any money on it![22:03:20] <LunarJetman> solidfox: just use FreeType[22:03:27] <aeth> solidfox: You're not going to make any money in your first project anyway unless you take a very long time and continually rewrite it and effectively do 10 "first projects" in that first project[22:03:59] <solidfox> aeth: right so maybe i should just finish it under curses and call it done[22:04:08] <solidfox> all curses needs is the score entry[22:04:13] <solidfox> which should be pretty easy[22:04:38] <solidfox> LunarJetman: FreeType? is that a font or library?[22:04:43] <aeth> Oh this is a good font family if you're not as concerned about internationalization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts[22:04:54] <LunarJetman> solidfox: it is a library for rendering fonts[22:05:03] <solidfox> LunarJetman: ok yeah that'd be nice[22:05:06] <aeth> I love Liberation Mono[22:06:10] <aeth> I think I've been on DejaVu Mono for a while now, though[22:06:17] <LunarJetman> my font selection dialog: https://neogfx.org/temp/fontdialog.png[22:07:09] <solidfox> lots to think about now[22:07:14] <solidfox> hmm[22:07:56] <aeth> Just keep in mind that in general you can use Android or Linux fonts anywhere, but Windows/Apple fonts are probably proprietary. If you want to know where to look for portable-everywhere fonts, that is.[22:08:03] <LunarJetman> I can render text with my ECS now[22:08:42] <aeth> Oh, and unlike a traditional GUI you essentially never want localized to platform fonts because you want exact control over pixels, not native look and feel.[22:09:45] <solidfox> the entity component system is actually pretty simple if i only do it for my menus i think. its not like my system will contain any code for like physics or anything[22:10:11] <aeth> What resource are you using for writing ECS for GUI code?[22:10:19] <aeth> That seems not very talked about.[22:10:20] <solidfox> ECS?[22:10:23] <solidfox> oh yeah[22:10:34] <solidfox> uh[22:10:36] <solidfox> what[22:11:09] <LunarJetman> my ECS uses my cookie jar container.[22:11:23] <solidfox> i dont have a gui[22:11:41] <aeth> solidfox: Do you have any references you're refering to for ECS menus or are you just working from the basic ECS concept?[22:11:46] <aeth> solidfox: Also, menus are GUI :-p[22:12:13] <aeth> If you're working with text, buttons, menus, etc., you're doing a very, very simple GUI[22:12:15] <solidfox> aeth: currently, its using a simple vector of strings for a menu. and there are two menus[22:12:19] <LunarJetman> I wrote my ECS from scratch without any help[22:14:02] <solidfox> im just going based off what wikipedia says "each entity has an id, and a list of components as classes" "the system takes each entity with a matching component for its aspect of the system, and performs the routine for it"[22:14:38] <solidfox> i was paraphrasing[22:14:58] <solidfox> and i was gonna put the entity list within each of my states[22:15:29] <solidfox> i have a start screen, difficulty screen, game screen, pause screen, and game over screen. but only the first two would need the menus..[22:15:57] <solidfox> yeah maybe i should skip the ECS its gonna make it look like spaghetti (half of my game uses the ECS and half of it doesnt)[22:17:10] <solidfox> decisions decisions[22:17:23] <solidfox> maybe my next project would use an ECS[22:17:27] <solidfox> and SDL[22:17:50] <aeth> solidfox: I like this description of an ECS because it has some code (in C, but the principle is general): https://www.gamedev.net/articles/programming/general-and-gameplay-programming/implementing-component-entity-systems-r3382[22:18:01] <aeth> iirc. I had to dig through my bookmarks so that might not be the right one.[22:18:08] <aeth> That site got redesigned so I can't rely on my visual memory there.[22:19:42] <LunarJetman> solidfox: I wouldn't use ECS for a GUI[22:20:54] <solidfox> LunarJetman: ah ok[22:20:58] <solidfox> aeth: nice[22:25:34] <LastTalon> I watched a talk a bit back about ECS in Rust[22:25:47] <LastTalon> I wonder if I can find it.[22:26:07] <LunarJetman> my colour selection dialog: https://i.imgur.com/JBqqhJi.png[22:26:18] <LastTalon> Yeah, here it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKLntZcp27M[22:27:14] <solidfox> LunarJetman: nice, do you prefer the square picker with multi hues? or the hue wheel with tint, shade, value triangle[22:27:41] <LunarJetman> I prefer the square picker but I might add a wheel too[22:32:12] <LunarJetman> my gradient selection dialog: https://i.imgur.com/BKVg9KO.png[22:35:30] <solidfox> LunarJetman: i like b and e here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSL_and_HSV#/media/File:Hsl-hsv-colorpickers.svg[22:35:34] <solidfox> IMO[22:36:14] <LunarJetman> yeah me too[22:39:06] *** cheakoirccloud <cheakoirccloud!uid293319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hewgwnyqpcbismqb> has joined #gamedev[22:46:01] *** cnidario <cnidario!~dont@47.60.213.179> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[22:47:46] <LastTalon> Make a color picker shaped like a chromaticity diagram.[22:50:27] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@2a02:1205:505c:2ab0:71ee:ce21:724d:7a0d> has quit IRC (Quit: krychu)[22:52:21] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@2a02:1205:505c:2ab0:71ee:ce21:724d:7a0d> has joined #gamedev[22:59:04] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has joined #gamedev[23:03:43] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:89b5:7571:be7f:7527> has joined #gamedev[23:10:42] *** rewind_ <rewind_!~rewind@2a01:e35:87d1:600:385d:ae2a:1eef:1ca> has joined #gamedev[23:14:04] *** rewind <rewind!~rewind@2a01:e35:87d1:600:385d:ae2a:1eef:1ca> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[23:15:02] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[23:19:33] *** Buoy172 <Buoy172!~Buoy172@95.86.6.187> has joined #gamedev[23:25:11] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[23:31:26] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[23:33:35] *** Buoy172 <Buoy172!~Buoy172@95.86.6.187> has quit IRC ()[23:37:37] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[23:50:54] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)