January 3, 2019 
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January 3, 2019 [00:01:50] <Atari2600> it is not the best beer. lol[00:03:09] *** kitsunenokenja <kitsunenokenja!~kitsunech@68.91.220.96> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[00:03:10] <R2robot> I never refer to 'best' in regard to anything I like.[00:03:14] <R2robot> I just say I like it[00:03:54] * Atari2600 sings Tina Turner to R2robot[00:03:58] <aeth> My game is going to be the best game of all time, objectively, though.[00:04:14] * R2robot is better than all the rest[00:04:16] <R2robot> lol[00:04:41] <pulse> i'll make a bad game on purpose[00:04:46] <pulse> so AVGN can review it and make fun of it[00:04:49] <R2robot> I mean, if Tina Turner says i'm the best, it MUST be true![00:04:50] <pulse> i'll get famous like that cheetaman guy[00:05:04] <Atari2600> action 52 again[00:06:05] <aeth> pulse: Nice try, but there are already many, many bad-on-purpose games. One, Goat Simulator, was even tolerable enough to be successful.[00:06:29] <aeth> (Every other Foo Simulator after that that tried to copy it was not successful)[00:06:49] <pulse> simulators are so 2010[00:09:05] <aeth> tell that to Euro Truck Simulator 2[00:09:20] <aeth> It will probably have more 2019 players than anyone in here's game will[00:13:02] <Atari2600> yeah! you want to make a terrible game? make a simulator[00:13:03] <Atari2600> they all fail[00:13:21] <Atari2600> simulation and sports. both doomed game categories[00:13:46] <aeth> actually, the doom game category is FPS iirc[00:14:28] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[00:15:02] <Atari2600> :>[00:16:32] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-24-166-114-198.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[00:17:02] <LunarJetman> pirate memory game (ages 4 to 8) is a good game category[00:18:21] <aeth> Super Hexagon is a good game category and there is only one game in that category[00:20:24] <Atari2600> aeth, how is that?[00:20:49] <Atari2600> https://www.superhexagon.com/ ? this?[00:21:29] <Atari2600> meh[00:21:36] <aeth> You can even play the original. https://terrycavanaghgames.com/hexagon/[00:22:43] <aeth> Super Hexagon is literally 6 minutes of content.[00:22:49] <R2robot> oh god, superhexagon is amazing.. I have it on steam[00:22:56] <R2robot> and I'm amazingly bad at it[00:23:04] <aeth> I never beat it, I got to the last level, though[00:24:12] <R2robot> lachhh would play it on twitch at the end of his dev streams. he was really good[00:33:57] *** fidasx <fidasx!~fidasx@ppp-94-66-221-18.home.otenet.gr> has joined #gamedev[00:36:00] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[00:38:48] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:44:41] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[00:46:35] *** fidasx <fidasx!~fidasx@ppp-94-66-221-18.home.otenet.gr> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:50:07] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[00:52:28] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has joined #gamedev[01:04:48] *** kitsunenokenja <kitsunenokenja!~kitsunech@68.91.220.96> has joined #gamedev[01:08:01] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[01:26:55] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[01:39:46] *** pulse_ <pulse_!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[01:41:30] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[01:46:07] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[01:52:05] <pulse_> is tomato soup underrated or overrated[01:56:56] <Donitzo> tomato soup is pretty crap[01:57:19] <Donitzo> tomatoes are something you add to salads or pizza or hot sauce or fancy alcoholic beverages[01:57:21] <Donitzo> not soup[02:06:15] <pulse_> i kinda like it[02:06:32] <pulse_> it tastes like mellow torture[02:06:36] <pulse_> i like that[02:31:54] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@net-93-67-12-40.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[02:31:58] <LunarJetman> gazpacho soup?[02:32:58] *** kitsunenokenja <kitsunenokenja!~kitsunech@68.91.220.96> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[02:34:14] *** baudejogos <baudejogos!~sjw@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #gamedev[02:39:59] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has joined #gamedev[02:40:45] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[02:41:31] <LunarJetman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65EfTFUFDwI[02:42:17] <baudejogos> some gamedev pls[02:42:27] <R2robot> tomato soup is a side dish[02:43:02] <baudejogos> slurp[02:50:03] *** unixfreak <unixfreak!~null@unaffiliated/unixfreak> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[02:50:33] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:145b:455b:99c2:a541> has joined #gamedev[02:52:25] *** unixfreak <unixfreak!~null@unaffiliated/unixfreak> has joined #gamedev[03:06:52] <LastTalon> Depends what kind of tomato soup.[03:08:19] <LunarJetman> the type that comes out of a can[03:13:19] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[03:14:27] *** dx_ob_ <dx_ob_!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[03:15:26] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[03:22:14] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[03:25:18] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[03:31:20] *** pulse_ <pulse_!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Quit: pulse_)[03:31:54] *** dx_ob_ <dx_ob_!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[03:32:19] *** kitsunenokenja <kitsunenokenja!~kitsunech@68.91.220.96> has joined #gamedev[03:33:01] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[03:36:31] *** shake <shake!~shake@5.28.69.107> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[03:37:46] *** TzilTzal <TzilTzal!~Yaron@101.127.74.219> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[03:50:55] <baudejogos> peaches come in a can[03:51:18] *** terminx <terminx!~terminx@209.58.139.15> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[03:51:45] *** mobile_c_ <mobile_c_!~mgood@cpe-172-192-39-91.qld.foxtel.net.au> has joined #gamedev[03:52:24] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[03:55:21] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mgood@2405:7f00:8805:8400:e55c:a90d:1cf2:979> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[03:59:53] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[04:01:07] *** terminx <terminx!~terminx@209.58.139.15> has joined #gamedev[04:03:15] *** NiniGeo2 <NiniGeo2!~NiniGeo2@c-73-178-72-18.hsd1.nj.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[04:07:50] *** terminx <terminx!~terminx@209.58.139.15> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[04:17:02] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[04:27:49] *** RoadKillGrill 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ZZZzzz…)[05:32:46] *** andrewray <andrewray!~andrewray@c-24-5-87-118.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> has left #gamedev[05:38:55] *** xrash <xrash!~xrash@177.102.209.30> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[05:39:42] <nek0> hey folks. do you have any pointers for generating 3D terrain which includes caves and overhangs?[05:45:24] <NiniGeo2> What I've seen people do in the past is start out with a heightmap from something like WorldMachine, and then they'd export that into a custom editor and add tunnels and overhangs and whatnot there.[05:46:26] <nek0> I would like to make it procedural, so no interaction from me to generate the terrain.[06:08:42] *** kitsunenokenja <kitsunenokenja!~kitsunech@68.91.220.96> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[06:17:41] <immibis> perhaps voxels? kinda like minecraft, but smooth it out so it's not as blocky[06:18:02] <immibis> (also they can be bigger than minecraft's voxels)[06:19:30] *** cheakoirccloud 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joined #gamedev[10:30:13] <dadabidet> any idea how to use btCollisionWorld::ContactResultCallback ?[10:30:21] <dadabidet> there is no proper info on the official doc[10:31:03] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has joined #gamedev[10:31:45] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[10:44:50] <LunarJetman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc6qFpbAgwM[11:01:51] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@net-93-67-12-40.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined #gamedev[11:04:05] *** Donitzo <Donitzo!~Donitzo@85-156-203-108.elisa-laajakaista.fi> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[11:16:27] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[11:24:29] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[11:24:40] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@net-93-67-12-40.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[11:26:30] <jprajzne> https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/red-dead-redemption-2-rape[11:31:52] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[11:36:58] <jprajzne> it really says a lot about gender bias and what it means to be human, in contrast[12:00:18] <dadabidet> shut up you're offending my cat[12:00:54] <jprajzne> dadabidet: are you happy in cat slavery? :))[12:02:41] <dadabidet> they keep me warm[12:03:09] <dadabidet> I can say whatever I want to them, they won't blog about it[12:03:31] <jprajzne> wait few years for peta to give them blogging rights :)[12:03:54] <dadabidet> I rather expect them to legalize cat steak[12:06:04] <jprajzne> then all animals will be equal :)[12:06:37] <LunarJetman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNTv2Au5Bv8[12:08:58] <dadabidet> how do I use addSingleResult in ContactResultCallback ?[12:09:15] <dadabidet> those arguments makes no sense and they're not documented[12:11:50] <dadabidet> should have used ConvexResultCallback[12:12:33] *** bildramer <bildramer!~bildramer@p57AD65E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[12:16:17] *** batman_nair <batman_nair!~batman_na@111.92.74.136> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[12:17:55] *** bildramer1 <bildramer1!~bildramer@p57AD65E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #gamedev[12:18:46] *** batman_nair <batman_nair!~batman_na@111.92.74.136> has joined #gamedev[12:20:07] *** batman_nair <batman_nair!~batman_na@111.92.74.136> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[12:28:12] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has joined #gamedev[12:31:59] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[12:36:47] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[12:52:57] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has joined #gamedev[13:04:08] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[13:27:32] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[13:34:22] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[13:38:47] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[13:39:46] *** aly777 <aly777!~kes777@50-242-177-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #gamedev[13:47:37] <dadabidet> okay Im getting a little impatient[13:55:51] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@net-93-67-12-40.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined #gamedev[14:09:58] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has joined #gamedev[14:12:26] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[14:23:24] *** xrash <xrash!~xrash@177.102.209.30> has joined #gamedev[14:25:47] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[14:31:49] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[14:32:21] <jprajzne> pulse: you may want to git pull https://github.com/g0dd4rd/Unpacked if you have it cloned[14:32:33] <jprajzne> did some updates recently :)[14:35:37] *** OtakuSen1ai <OtakuSen1ai!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[14:36:37] *** OtakuSen1ai is now known as Nawab[14:43:45] *** refs <refs!~refs@dslb-188-103-172-248.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined #gamedev[14:45:27] <pulse> jprajzne, checking[14:51:53] *** Thurien <Thurien!~quassel@ip5f5ac9e2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has joined #gamedev[14:52:40] *** Nawab <Nawab!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)[14:58:21] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined #gamedev[15:11:15] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[15:20:30] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.214.242.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:21:15] <jprajzne> pulse: am probably going to add some notes about hand mechanics[15:21:44] <jprajzne> and go through the modes in not so common fashion[15:23:15] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:26:47] *** Donitzo <Donitzo!~Donitzo@85-156-203-108.elisa-laajakaista.fi> has joined #gamedev[15:31:12] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[15:45:08] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[15:45:15] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Write error: Connection reset by peer)[15:49:36] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has joined #gamedev[15:51:41] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:55:11] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[15:58:25] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[15:59:13] *** Tylak <Tylak!~Tylak@074-135-002-092.res.spectrum.com> has joined #gamedev[16:05:57] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@2a02:1205:505c:2ab0:90d7:5a14:319a:98e9> has quit IRC (Quit: krychu)[16:09:23] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has joined #gamedev[16:11:06] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has joined #gamedev[16:13:27] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has joined #gamedev[16:27:30] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[16:33:32] *** jprajzne <jprajzne!jprajzne@nat/redhat/x-xjquqbncpyrwurrr> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[16:34:31] *** lordkryss <lordkryss!uid25759@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oaizxuxnfriwgjih> has joined #gamedev[16:45:43] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[16:45:57] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has joined #gamedev[16:46:47] *** shake <shake!~shake@5.28.69.107> has joined #gamedev[16:47:45] *** dadabidet <dadabidet!~dadabidet@choupi.libriciel.fr> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[16:48:26] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[16:55:16] <Atari2600> https://getemoji.com/ this site is just another confirmation that unicode sucks[16:59:13] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@net-93-67-12-40.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[17:06:21] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[17:09:03] <aeth> Unicode's not perfect but you're naïve if you think you can avoid using it[17:14:59] <Atari2600> :D I wish I could[17:15:09] <Atari2600> SUCK IT UP, BITCH![17:15:30] <Atari2600> and keep seeing blocks, small letters and question marks everywhere[17:16:06] <Atari2600> and nobody dares to provide a better alternative because it is a giant huge fucking problem to solve :([17:16:38] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@net-93-67-12-40.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined #gamedev[17:16:47] <Atari2600> aeth, https://eev.ee/blog/2015/09/12/dark-corners-of-unicode/ if you want to get depressed[17:18:45] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[17:20:25] <aeth> Atari2600: short of uploading your mind and augmenting it to become a superintelligence and other, similar singularity fantasies, nobody's going to have the time to design and implement something better[17:20:52] <Atari2600> yeah, that is what I said[17:21:01] <aeth> it's like the options of TCP and UDP. Those are your two options, period.[17:21:21] <Atari2600> the solution for the problem sucks. and nobody will try to solve it in a better way[17:21:22] <aeth> Well, for text you have UTF-8 and a 32-bit or 64-bit alternative.[17:22:07] <aeth> Either you waste space and treat it like a normal array/vector/whatever-your-language-calls-it or you use UTF-8 and have to deal with the variable length[17:22:32] <aeth> And no matter your solution it's Unicode[17:23:02] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has joined #gamedev[17:23:17] <aeth> (Personally, I think the best solution is the faster but memory-wasting solution internally and the slower but better-for-space UTF-8 solution when writing/reading files or transmitting text over the network.)[17:25:16] <Atari2600> the encoding is not the problem[17:25:19] <Atari2600> encodings are good[17:25:20] <Atari2600> concise[17:25:21] <Atari2600> precise[17:25:29] <Atari2600> the DESIGN of unicode is the annoying shit[17:25:33] <Atari2600> see the link I pasted[17:25:38] <Atari2600> it is laughable[17:25:40] <Donitzo> đšć[17:25:45] <Atari2600> the flags thing... jesus christ[17:26:24] <Atari2600> you decoded the text into the actual code points, now what? :DDD they become a mess that needs to be INTERPRETED[17:26:28] *** macza <macza!~macza@162.221.202.202> has joined #gamedev[17:26:36] <Donitzo> and then there are characters which can hide other characters[17:26:45] <Donitzo> so you can hide malicious code[17:27:18] <DarkUranium> aeth, 64-bit alternative?[17:27:28] <DarkUranium> and there are more protocols than just TCP and UDP.[17:27:45] <DarkUranium> (SCTP comes to mind)[17:28:00] <Donitzo> wasn't the new protocol google made a mixture of tcp and udp[17:28:06] <aeth> DarkUranium: oh wow there's no utf-64 yet. I'm sorry, I assumed there was because there's even a utf-7[17:28:28] <aeth> I guess it's just utf-32[17:28:35] <Donitzo> "QUIC's main goal is to improve perceived performance of connection-oriented web applications that are currently using TCP.[1][7] It does this by establishing a number of multiplexed connections between two endpoints over User Datagram Protocol (UDP). This works hand-in-hand with HTTP/2's multiplexed connections, allowing multiple streams of data to reach all the endpoints independently. In contrast, HTTP hosted on Transmission[17:28:35] <Donitzo> Control Protocol (TCP) can be blocked if any of the multiplexed data streams has an error. "[17:28:35] <DarkUranium> aeth, I mean, they aren't even close to filling up to 0x10FFFF.[17:28:42] <aeth> DarkUranium: so far[17:29:44] <aeth> DarkUranium: Notice how in your quote it points out that it's really UDP. My point still stands that your only options there are TCP and UDP[17:29:44] <DarkUranium> they said they guarantee to never go over that (a promise which worked *great* for UCS-2!)[17:29:44] <DarkUranium> aeth, it's not UDP.[17:29:44] <aeth> DarkUranium: It's a layer over UDP[17:29:44] <DarkUranium> it works on the same layer as UDP, TCP, and others[17:29:45] <DarkUranium> thus, it is *by definition* not UDP.[17:29:46] <Atari2600> they just transformed string rendering in an almost NP-complete problem :D[17:30:22] <aeth> Donitzo: Oops cycled one too many times, the second D<tab>: was to you, obviously (and you replied to it)[17:30:36] <Atari2600> at least TCP and UDP (let's say datagrams) are very simple specs compared to what Unicode became[17:30:40] <DarkUranium> aeth, oh.[17:30:40] <aeth> wait, you didn't reply to it, damn[17:30:54] <aeth> this conversation is moving too QUICkly[17:31:03] <DarkUranium> aeth, anyhow, the issue is that literally *NONE* of the massive codebase is ready to handle anything above 0x10FFFF.[17:31:05] <Donitzo> Why are you discussing TCP/UDP and unicode in the same context anyway[17:31:08] <Atari2600> the TCP packets are fast[17:31:09] <Donitzo> apples and oranges[17:31:15] <DarkUranium> Donitzo, for the glory of satan, of course![17:31:25] <Atari2600> Donitzo, he compared Unicode specs with TCP/UDP specs in the sense of "they suck, but we can't avoid them"[17:31:29] <aeth> Donitzo: Because both are on the list of things you should never waste your time trying to replace even if they have imperfections[17:31:34] <Atari2600> DarkUranium, satan, yeah[17:31:35] <Donitzo> What's wrong with TCP/UDP?[17:31:42] <Atari2600> he has his hand on all these shitty things[17:31:46] <DarkUranium> aeth, as for UTF-7, that one exists for legacy reasons. Unlike a hypothetical UTF-64, which would be a *forward* compatibility thing, not *backwards*.[17:31:53] <DarkUranium> Donitzo, plenty wrong with them.[17:32:36] <DarkUranium> Donitzo, they're good for many things, but for many (most?) others, it's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.[17:32:48] <DarkUranium> But when all you have is a square peg and a triangular one ...[17:33:20] <DarkUranium> unrelated: https://i.imgur.com/bqHAzFq.jpg[17:39:43] <Atari2600> I give you:[17:39:43] <Atari2600> The world’s first emoji domain.[17:39:43] <Atari2600> http://đ©.la[17:40:19] <LastTalon> What exactly is the problem with udp?[17:40:24] <LastTalon> You can use udp for whatever you want.[17:40:28] <Atari2600> :[17:40:33] <Atari2600> :D[17:40:36] <Atari2600> :[17:40:45] <LastTalon> The problem with udp is that it makes no special promises.[17:40:55] <LastTalon> So build whatever protocol you want out of it.[17:41:26] <Atari2600> PROBLEM SOLVED[17:42:04] <LastTalon> You can make TCP over UDP if you really want.[17:42:14] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@2a02:1205:505c:2ab0:199c:43ef:814:e0e1> has joined #gamedev[17:42:17] <Atari2600> wow[17:42:22] <Atari2600> much clever[17:42:25] <Atari2600> such layering[17:43:23] <aeth> You can always build $foo on top of $bar. Some problems in general with that approach: (1) slower than building $foo directly and (2) it does still restrict your design[17:43:33] <Atari2600> UDP is for pussies. just make your own datalink with your finite state machine instead[17:43:48] <Atari2600> and $foo will suck badly[17:43:48] <LastTalon> aeth, I'm not sure that argument is applicable with UDP[17:43:49] <aeth> UDP is the lowest level you can rely on, of course, so you do have to build on top of it if TCP doesn't perfectly fit your needs[17:43:54] <LastTalon> They're just datagrams.[17:44:05] <Atari2600> seriously?[17:44:08] <Atari2600> 'just datagrams' ?[17:44:34] <Atari2600> it is just code![17:45:13] <Atari2600> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack <== they are just letters!!! !! ! ![17:45:38] <LastTalon> Atari2600, have you ever contributed anything useful?[17:46:05] <Atari2600> I am trying to be like you[17:46:16] <Atari2600> you don't appreciate my synergy?[17:46:41] <pulse> ICMP is simpler than UDP[17:46:54] <LastTalon> A UDP datagram is literally just port, port, length, checksum, payload. Those are literally the basic things you need to make any trasnport layer protocol.[17:47:33] <LastTalon> If you imagined a different transport layer protocol it would need those things anyway.[17:47:54] <Donitzo> hmm[17:48:22] <Donitzo> I guess you could do without checksum if you're mental[17:48:29] <LastTalon> True.[17:49:10] <pulse> or we can just use smoke signals[17:49:11] <LastTalon> We'll consider that when people come to the gates demanding to remove the checksum. ;P[17:49:26] <Atari2600> as I said, we all should code our own datalinks[17:51:40] <Donitzo> I've considered writing an audio based network protocol[17:51:57] <Donitzo> just to see how hard it would be[17:52:13] <LastTalon> I mean yeah. If you're arguing that UDP is a peg that doesn't fit your hole, then you probably do want to write your own data link.[17:53:22] <aeth> I think the general flaw with UDP (other than that using it is hard) is that it's easy to DDOS with it?[17:53:49] <DarkUranium> Donitzo, not necessarily mental.[17:53:49] <LastTalon> That's not really a flaw as much as it is a side-effect.[17:54:04] <DarkUranium> Donitzo, it might be redundant in software that checks file integrity anyhow[17:54:14] <Donitzo> yes[17:54:17] <DarkUranium> (which is most bulk download software)[17:54:22] <Donitzo> or maybe you like transfering all data as zip :P[17:54:41] <DarkUranium> I'm thinking more in terms of torrents and the like.[17:54:45] <DarkUranium> or rsync[17:55:04] <DarkUranium> or rsyncing some torrent files to download rsync via bittorrent[17:55:05] <Donitzo> I wish filesystems with built in checksums were more common[17:55:10] <Donitzo> I can think of one[17:55:48] <Donitzo> it just seems like an obvious choice if you actually care about data integrity[17:55:52] <DarkUranium> zfs?[17:55:55] <Donitzo> yeah[17:55:57] <LastTalon> Any sufficiently simple datagram with no strings attached can be used to perform a DoS.[17:56:05] <DarkUranium> ZFS is love. ZFS is life.[17:56:14] <Donitzo> wasn't it proprietary?[17:57:24] <DarkUranium> Donitzo, what, ZFS?[17:57:30] <DarkUranium> It was at some point, but that was a long while ago.[17:57:45] <LastTalon> The checksum is also a checksum for the header of the datagram.[17:57:51] <LastTalon> Which wouldn't be checked by the filesystem.[17:57:58] <LastTalon> So there's that...[17:58:15] <DarkUranium> LastTalon, sort of. If it's an invalid size and all that, that's still caught.[17:58:15] <Donitzo> yeah I'm just talking in general now[17:58:44] <LastTalon> That's easy to catch without a checksum any time.[17:58:55] <LastTalon> You just count the bits.[18:00:09] <LastTalon> I mean like... skip the checksum in UDP. If the header isn't exactly 48 bits then its invalid.[18:00:38] <pulse> i for one like NTFS[18:00:43] <pulse> works everywhere / 10[18:00:55] <LastTalon> NT is my favorite.[18:00:57] <LastTalon> :D[18:01:18] <LastTalon> Best OS 2019[18:01:43] <Donitzo> "If the header isn't exactly 48 bits then its invalid"[18:01:46] <Donitzo> Good luck with the bit-flips[18:02:21] <LastTalon> Bit flips don't matter...[18:02:27] <LastTalon> Its still the same number of bits.[18:02:41] <LastTalon> Bit flips are why you should use a checksum.[18:04:47] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:8159:54eb:3d0b:98e> has joined #gamedev[18:05:08] <LastTalon> I didn't think I'd be trying to advocate for using checksums for network traffic today, but here I am.[18:05:35] <Donitzo> Been develiping a bit of rs232 last year[18:05:38] <Donitzo> yeah, checksums are good[18:05:41] <Donitzo> developing*[18:05:50] <pulse> checkmates are even better[18:07:12] <pulse> networking is one of those things that scare the shit out of me[18:07:20] <pulse> sure i can do some stuff on the application layer and call it a day[18:07:30] <pulse> but understanding the full stack is pretty high brow[18:07:40] <Donitzo> yes, and it's also very boring[18:07:42] <Donitzo> so very boring[18:07:49] <LastTalon> Yeah.[18:10:15] <DarkUranium> Donitzo, do you do any high-speed comms, BTW?[18:10:17] <DarkUranium> (not just RS232)[18:10:27] <Donitzo> naw[18:10:38] <DarkUranium> I've been looking at a device which promises 100MHz RS485, but I have my doubts.[18:10:52] <DarkUranium> err, Mbit/s[18:11:01] <Donitzo> wonder what the maximum cable length is[18:11:09] *** aly777 <aly777!~kes777@50-242-177-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[18:11:21] <DarkUranium> You mean for RS485 or in my case?[18:11:35] <Donitzo> RS485[18:12:00] <Donitzo> http://www.chipkin.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/cable_length.GIF[18:12:01] <DarkUranium> At low baud rates, 1220m[18:28:44] <Donitzo> global game jam at the end of the month[18:28:56] <Donitzo> maybe I could convinence my friend to come help make a proper game[18:29:03] <Donitzo> convince*[18:34:04] *** grim001 <grim001!~grim001@ip70-173-209-228.lv.lv.cox.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[18:35:50] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[18:37:36] <Donitzo> so the messenger is a really good example of extremely well made gameplay[18:37:51] <Donitzo> I can't think of another platformer in which the movement was as well polished[18:38:20] <Donitzo> mmm, super mario bros 3 I guess[18:41:42] *** freestyledork <freestyledork!~freestyle@unaffiliated/freestyledork> has joined #gamedev[18:44:30] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@net-93-67-12-40.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[18:51:22] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has joined #gamedev[18:56:14] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:41b:f849:150:35bf> has joined #gamedev[18:59:46] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has quit IRC (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1)[19:03:06] <DarkUranium> Donitzo, which jam is it?[19:03:16] <DarkUranium> oh, *the* global game jam[19:05:29] <Donitzo> yes[19:05:38] <Donitzo> they have a local locale to work in[19:05:43] <Donitzo> fun to meet people[19:11:59] <LastTalon> Game jams always seem so stressful when I think about it.[19:12:49] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[19:13:52] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:14:34] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[19:14:39] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[19:15:58] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has joined #gamedev[19:17:03] <Donitzo> I love the stress[19:17:14] <Donitzo> and being awake for 70+ hours[19:17:25] <Donitzo> makes me feel alive[19:24:51] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[19:26:27] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:145b:455b:99c2:a541> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:26:41] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwPUIPXofnc[19:26:47] <pulse> \m/[19:38:06] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[19:39:54] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[19:47:06] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@2a02:1205:505c:2ab0:199c:43ef:814:e0e1> has quit IRC (Quit: krychu)[19:48:57] *** catphish <catphish!~catphish@unaffiliated/catphish> has joined #gamedev[19:49:38] *** shake <shake!~shake@5.28.69.107> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[19:57:26] *** R2robot <R2robot!~R2robot@unaffiliated/r2ro> has joined #gamedev[20:02:00] *** krychu <krychu!~krychu@2a02:1205:505c:2ab0:199c:43ef:814:e0e1> has joined #gamedev[20:04:34] <Donitzo> https://threejs.org/examples/#webgl_buffergeometry_instancing_billboards[20:04:35] <Donitzo> nice[20:23:49] <DarkUranium> Donitzo, nice (w.r.t. locale), wish there was something like this here[20:28:43] <escherial> hey, do any of you use haxe, and if so do you have a library recommendation for developing a 2d platformer? i've been messing with heaps, but the documentation's a bit scant, and i'm still unsure how easy it'll be to integrate an arcade-style physics engine[20:33:52] <Donitzo> arcade-style is just homebrew I bet[20:41:05] <R2robot> Today we gamedev[20:44:02] <pulse> tonight we dine in javascript[20:44:06] *** bildramer1 is now known as bildramer[20:44:21] <R2robot> :([20:50:48] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has joined #gamedev[20:50:49] <escherial> Donitzo: was that directed at me? not sure what you mean by "just homebrew"[20:51:37] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[20:52:57] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[20:53:49] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[20:54:12] *** Nawab <Nawab!~Neel@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[20:54:42] <escherial> by "arcade-style", i mean something like the physics engines in older games that don't realistically model the player's movement. e.g., the player has instantaneous velocity, no elasticity when colliding or lack of friction with the floor, the ability to move one-way through platforms, etc.[20:55:18] *** shake <shake!~shake@5.28.69.107> has joined #gamedev[20:55:20] <escherial> i suppose most engines achieve that by just allowing some entities to have their movement entirely controlled by the programmer[20:55:28] <Donitzo> it isn't just older games[20:55:35] <Donitzo> I think most platformers have unrealistic movement[20:55:41] <Donitzo> realistic movement in platformers feels wrong[20:55:45] <escherial> sure, agreed[20:56:24] *** OtakuSen1ai <OtakuSen1ai!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[20:56:27] <Donitzo> try another world[20:56:34] <Donitzo> I think that game has fairly realistic movement[20:56:48] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjMf_bEfqIc[20:57:47] <escherial> another world's cool; i remember playing that like 15 years ago on a mac[20:58:16] <Donitzo> and in the same vein, prince of persia and flashback[20:58:20] <escherial> i think you misunderstand my question, though -- i'm just asking about physics engines for haxe that'd support arcade-style physics for certain bodies[20:58:28] <escherial> both classics, yeah[20:58:32] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[20:58:42] <Donitzo> that's just it. I can't think of a "generic" arcade-style physics engine[21:00:22] <escherial> fair enough, thanks. i'd settle for any physics engine for haxe, then, as long as i can override the dynamics for some entities[21:00:27] *** krychu_ <krychu_!~krychu@213.242.84.161> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:00:38] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=724nHNsGzO8[21:00:43] <Donitzo> except for maybe intrusion then[21:00:54] <escherial> the most popular one, nape, no longer seems to have a valid website -- napephys.com got bought by some law firm[21:05:11] *** OtakuSen1ai <OtakuSen1ai!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)[21:06:38] *** shake <shake!~shake@5.28.69.107> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[21:07:07] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[21:09:13] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[21:16:06] <Atari2600> another world <3 prince of persia <3 flashback <3[21:16:12] <Atari2600> :)))))))))))))))))))))))[21:16:24] <Atari2600> and then prince of persia 2 <3[21:16:29] <Donitzo> prince of persia's jump through mirror scene blew my little kid brain[21:16:30] <Atari2600> bugged, but fun and beautiful[21:16:33] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has joined #gamedev[21:16:59] <Atari2600> prince of persia cheated with rotoscopy techniques[21:17:25] <Atari2600> the true evolution of karateka[21:17:38] <Donitzo> a modern game which used the same style is Iji[21:17:43] <Donitzo> pretty damn cool game[21:17:48] <Donitzo> last boss spoiler: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67eLpLhxEPg[21:18:17] <Atari2600> I don't like the graphics[21:18:25] <Atari2600> perhaps the video is bad[21:18:39] <Donitzo> it's an old free indie game so the graphics aren't that impressive[21:18:41] <Atari2600> but the graphics are just not fitting . it seems the art is lazy[21:18:42] <Donitzo> but the game has content for days[21:18:45] <Atari2600> and not consistent[21:18:54] <Atari2600> yeah! I will try the game regardless. the boss fight looks cool[21:19:09] <Donitzo> also supports a full pacifist route[21:19:14] <Atari2600> heh[21:19:19] <Atari2600> you can give flowers to the bosses?[21:19:29] <Atari2600> "here! please don't hit me"[21:19:30] <Donitzo> various things happen to the bosses[21:19:40] <Donitzo> I think someone jumps in and kills the boss for you at some point[21:19:53] <Donitzo> and then the entire story changes[21:20:19] <Atari2600> you know a game that is incredible amazing with story changes and such? and the game is so good that they just decided to package an emulator and resell it, instead of properly remaking it?[21:20:24] <Atari2600> D&D Shadow of Mystara[21:20:52] <Atari2600> I just didn't believe when I say both D&D Tower of Doom and Shadow of Mystara in the arcades[21:20:56] <Donitzo> ah yes, the game that looks like golden axe[21:20:56] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has joined #gamedev[21:20:58] <Atari2600> I've spent a lot of coins[21:21:22] <catphish> i'm trying to design an api for 2d sprite / tile-based graphics, looking for inspiration for how such an API should work[21:21:29] <Atari2600> they support four players, they have a lot of spells and skills and items, lots of enemies, bosses, alternate paths, "pacifist routes", etc.[21:21:40] <Atari2600> catphish, sprite.draw();[21:21:53] <Donitzo> Let me copy paste[21:22:11] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has joined #gamedev[21:22:14] <Donitzo> drawSprite(sprite, x, y, scaleX = 1, scaleY = 1, rotation = null, centerPivot = true) {[21:22:24] <Donitzo> that should cover most things[21:22:35] <Atari2600> catphish, you should have a basic image/bitmap type. then you can either package it in a class with a Point or you can just do what Donitzo said[21:22:41] <Atari2600> externalize the state, instead[21:22:42] <catphish> Donitzo: just saw your video, that's the kind of graphics i suppose i'm interested in[21:23:02] <Donitzo> same as in another world, vector graphics[21:23:06] <Atari2600> although I would not use the rotation and centerPivot parameters. they look dull and unnecessary[21:23:09] <Donitzo> though in the game the levels are tilemaps[21:23:21] <Donitzo> centerPivot is really handy[21:23:23] <Atari2600> the scale arguments I also like to precompute[21:23:26] <Donitzo> imagine if you want to draw a bullet vs a box[21:23:33] <Donitzo> a bullet is drawn at xy[21:23:36] <catphish> Donitzo: are you suggesting calling that for every sprite in every frame? my main worry is the background, which will consist of quite a lot of tiles[21:23:38] <Donitzo> a box from its upper left corner[21:23:44] <catphish> so that's a lot of draw calls every frame[21:23:49] <Atari2600> Donitzo, this info I also pack inside my GraphicObject class[21:24:00] <Atari2600> I avoid excessive repeated computations[21:24:20] <Donitzo> mm, well that does it make harder to make things very dynamic[21:24:26] <Donitzo> as in, just drawing stuff for the hell of it in a loop[21:24:27] <Atari2600> if you always gonna draw a bullet from its center, then just precompute the offset in the Bullet class[21:25:14] <Atari2600> my animations also can be treated generically as they were images[21:25:27] <Atari2600> so the render does not care about the animations. they happen separately[21:25:33] <catphish> so assuming the background consists of 2 layers of 32x19 tiles, that 1216 sprite draws every frame :([21:25:42] <Atari2600> I got animated tiles for free[21:25:44] <Donitzo> It's a bit of a taste thing[21:25:51] <catphish> which seems excessive[21:25:53] <Atari2600> I got fancy enemies and bullets[21:25:59] <Donitzo> I like the freedom of being completely devoid of any type of pre-made objects like that[21:26:00] <Atari2600> they can smile, bullets can glow, etc.[21:26:15] <Atari2600> catphish, optimize the drawing then[21:26:16] <Donitzo> same way as I like not having a scene graph[21:26:23] <Donitzo> because it gives me the freedom of just drawing all kinds of crazy stuff[21:26:29] <Atari2600> if you are having performance problems, make a smart renderer[21:26:35] <Atari2600> hint: it is usually unnecessary[21:28:11] <catphish> maybe i'll just go with the drawSprite(sprite, x, y) approach then, that's what i currently have[21:28:38] <catphish> hopefully a game engine won't have too much trouble using that to render a full background[21:28:45] <Donitzo> no no no[21:28:51] <Donitzo> don't do that if you have a tilemap[21:29:01] <catphish> well that's what i wondered about[21:29:13] <Donitzo> ok, you CAN, but only if you can pre-render the tilemap[21:29:25] <Donitzo> and only render changes[21:29:31] <Donitzo> but then you need a rendertarget of some type[21:30:13] <catphish> so with a tilemap, would the game just call something like drawTilemap(tileMap, x, y)[21:30:23] <catphish> and pass an array of tiles, and an offset?[21:30:25] <Donitzo> make a tilemap class[21:30:33] <Donitzo> in which you just loop over the tiles in draw[21:30:48] <Donitzo> what language are you using?[21:31:09] <catphish> so, in the case of a classic scrolling 2d game, does the tilemap comain a whole level, or just what's on screen?[21:31:30] <Donitzo> do have have a scrolling camera?[21:31:51] <Donitzo> and how many tiles do you expect to render at once[21:32:02] <Donitzo> you can easily use frustum culling on a tilemap[21:32:11] <catphish> i have no thing so high level, i'm working in C, software rendering[21:32:17] <Donitzo> and if you need less than 100 or so tiles you can render them fine in real time[21:32:35] <Donitzo> otherwise you probably need either a vertex buffer, or some type of pre-rendering[21:32:52] <LunarJetman> Donitzo picks out the magic number "100" from thin air[21:32:56] <catphish> so, i'm rendering 480x270, consisting of 16x16 tiles[21:33:03] <Donitzo> no, just experience[21:33:19] <Donitzo> drawing 100 things like this should be fine[21:33:21] <LunarJetman> you can't just say "100"; too many factors[21:33:26] <Donitzo> drawing something like 1000-10000 is not as fine[21:33:28] <catphish> a "level" is likely to consist of a map of tiles much larger that what will fit on the screen[21:33:32] <Donitzo> plenty of overhead[21:34:09] <catphish> so 480x270 with 16x16 tiles is 608 tiles[21:34:17] <Donitzo> anyway, vertex buffer is the way to go for the tilemap IF you don't need them animated[21:34:37] <catphish> but the real qurstion is what the game is likely to want to pass to the graphics backend[21:34:53] <Donitzo> google spritebatch xna[21:35:39] <catphish> what i was really unsure about is whether a game would draw individual tiles, or pass an array of them, and if the latter, would it pass a whole level, or just what's on screen at the time[21:35:44] <LunarJetman> "1000-10000" more magic numbers[21:35:50] <LunarJetman> you are just guessing[21:35:51] <Donitzo> shh[21:36:00] <Donitzo> do you need special tiles?[21:36:09] <Donitzo> or will tiles just be static images[21:36:13] <Donitzo> with some kind of collision map[21:36:27] <catphish> i haven't considiered collisions yet, just graphics rendering[21:36:43] <catphish> but just static images, 16x16[21:37:06] <Donitzo> hmm[21:37:29] <Donitzo> it's a good idea to chunk the tilemap[21:37:39] <Donitzo> say you make chunks of 32x32 tiles each[21:37:45] <LunarJetman> yeah, just "chunk" that shit :D[21:37:46] <Donitzo> and each chunk has its own vertex/index buffer[21:38:07] <Donitzo> then you can just draw the chunks on the camera[21:38:12] <Donitzo> and there's only a few of them[21:38:16] <Donitzo> fairly efficient[21:39:13] <catphish> hmm, so the game just passes 4 large chunks of the map at once[21:39:19] <Donitzo> or if you really want to draw individual tiles, just keep a 2d array of your tiles[21:39:32] <Donitzo> and just loop from leftX to rightY, topY to bottomY[21:39:58] <Donitzo> based on the camera[21:40:27] <Donitzo> rightX[21:42:21] <catphish> thanks for the input :) i suppose of the game has a 2d array of tiles that represent the game level, the most efficient thing if for the game to pass the whole array to the graphics engine, with an x,y offset, and the engine can cull as appropriate and draw what's on the screen, then the game doesn't need to worry which tiles are in view, it just needs to update the x,y[21:43:20] <Donitzo> no need for culling, the 2d array would represent x and y[21:43:30] <Donitzo> well, I guess that is culling[21:43:47] <Donitzo> I mean, you only ever need to loop over the tiles within your camera frustum. No need to even check the other tiles[21:43:52] <catphish> the 2d array of tiles will contain lots that aren't currently on the screen[21:44:08] <catphish> right, yes, just loop over those that will be in view from the full array[21:44:14] <Donitzo> leftX = floor(cameraX / tileSize)[21:44:42] <Donitzo> rightX = floor((cameraX + cameraSizeX) / tileSize) + 1[21:45:00] <catphish> yep, i think that's the way to go, then the game only has to pass "renderBackground(tileArray, x, y)"[21:45:07] <Donitzo> also[21:45:08] <catphish> where tileArray never changes[21:45:19] <Donitzo> try to avoid creating and modifying the size of arrays are runtime[21:45:27] <Donitzo> or you'll likely generate a lot of garbage[21:45:35] <Donitzo> oh wait[21:45:37] <catphish> yeah, the array never has to change this way[21:45:37] <Donitzo> you said C++[21:45:43] <catphish> i said C[21:45:48] <Donitzo> yeah nevermind[21:45:48] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[21:46:09] <catphish> i will be dealing with memory manually for now[21:47:07] <catphish> foreground i'm not so worried about, the same can render those (characters, baddies, etc) individually[21:47:21] <Donitzo> if you render tiles seperately as now[21:47:28] <Donitzo> try to take advantage of it[21:47:43] <Donitzo> make tiles animated[21:47:49] <Donitzo> and stuff like that[21:48:32] <Donitzo> fudge, got distracted again[21:48:50] <Donitzo> I was trying to make a point of interest object[21:50:26] <catphish> well a game engine can definitely do animations by cycling through several different sprites[21:50:50] <catphish> in fact, it could even cycle through several background tile arrays to achieve the same thing[21:50:51] <Donitzo> not just animations, make effects. Allow sprites to quake, rotate[21:51:00] <Donitzo> you have tile[21:51:08] <Donitzo> add tile.quake and fun stuff like that[21:51:08] <catphish> that's rather a lot more complicated[21:51:38] <Donitzo> and since you do have an array of tiles, you have your collision map[21:51:47] <Donitzo> you add tile.blocked[21:51:55] <Donitzo> or tile.getBlocked[21:51:58] <Donitzo> is more proper[21:52:34] <Donitzo> actually in C I'm not so sure[21:53:43] <catphish> it's ok, it's just structs, they're near enough the same as objects[21:54:26] <catphish> C has structs, they're basically objects with no functions[21:55:45] <Donitzo> yepp[21:55:54] <Donitzo> that should work nicely[21:56:08] <Donitzo> import from tiled?[21:56:26] <catphish> i'm writing everything from scratch (mostly for fun)[21:56:47] <Donitzo> I mean, the tiled editor[21:56:53] <Donitzo> it's a free tile editor[21:57:08] <catphish> oh, yeah, i want to use that[21:57:23] <catphish> i haven't quite got to that stage yet, but i hope i can use it[21:57:30] <Donitzo> The format is fairly simple to parse[21:57:44] <catphish> ideal[21:57:45] <Donitzo> so you can make a constructor which takes your tiled map and creates your tile arrays[21:57:47] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[21:57:51] <Donitzo> I mean, a factory[21:58:25] <Donitzo> alternatively you can make an ingame editor[21:58:45] <catphish> that's pretty unlikely to happen, but tiled looks ideal[21:58:59] <catphish> i'll write something to process its tilemaps[22:00:21] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@085083077157.dynamic.telenor.dk> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:00:26] <catphish> anyway, this is making sense now, game can have a level tilemap that doesn't change, it can pass the whole map to the graphics engine with an xy offset[22:00:29] <catphish> keeps things simple[22:01:59] <catphish> i'm trying to make a whole 16 bit style games console from scratch (using modern hardware), and ultimately a demo game for it, so doing a few things at once, graphics is largely working, but i was unsure of what API to present to games[22:02:23] <Donitzo> ah yes[22:02:41] <catphish> last few days have been spent trying to get USB working so i can use USB controllers[22:02:44] <Donitzo> tilemap + n sprites[22:03:17] <catphish> yeah, that sounds ideal, probably 2 layered tilemaps for a little parallax effect[22:03:34] <Donitzo> I suppose the 16 bit consoles did have that[22:03:44] <Donitzo> NES and C64 had only one[22:07:06] <myke> so glad our gpus are awesome now[22:07:17] <catphish> this is what it does currently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt0u0dBuJKk i don't have any nice sprites to render, but the basic functionality is there[22:07:35] <Atari2600> ew[22:07:49] <catphish> 2 layers of tiles plus an individual sprite[22:07:49] <Atari2600> at least you have transparency :)[22:08:16] <Atari2600> steal some things from the sprite database or from the open game art sites[22:08:29] <catphish> i do, only 1 bit transparancy, but that's roughly what classic consoles had[22:08:36] <Atari2600> yeah! I do that too[22:08:39] <Atari2600> alpha blending sucks[22:09:32] <catphish> rendering a sprite in software with no transparancy is very very fact, 1 bit transparency is MUCH slower because you have to do a condition on every pixel, but full alpha blending is crazy to do in software[22:09:45] <catphish> and really unnecessary for my goal[22:10:43] <Atari2600> GDI does it nicely for me :D[22:10:51] <myke> not sure why you'd do any of it in software[22:10:55] <Atari2600> in xlib I had to use pixel mask[22:11:04] * myke throws up a little bit in his mouth.[22:11:13] <Donitzo> on NES I just made the background color of the tiles the same as the background[22:11:13] <Donitzo> hue[22:11:21] <Atari2600> :)[22:11:32] <myke> sticking to gpus in the modern world, sorry[22:11:33] <Atari2600> NES and its "background bosses"[22:11:40] <myke> and free twizzling![22:11:48] <Atari2600> myke, uploading textures is boring :D[22:11:54] <Donitzo> https://www.dropbox.com/s/r9ov6jb85dj9vf0/Cavescapade.nes?raw=1[22:12:01] <Donitzo> if you have an emulator handy[22:12:02] <myke> there's shaders too you know[22:12:10] <myke> can do a lot programatically[22:12:15] <Atari2600> still need to package texture data. BoOoOoring[22:12:21] <myke> not much[22:12:44] <Atari2600> but yeah, I will definitely move my renderz to OpenGL when I start worrying about rendering performance[22:12:53] <myke> i'm doing a 2d top-down tank game. almost at the point where i'm considering a system to draw them all in shaders, vector style, by having a phase that compiles shaders out of primitives code[22:13:12] <Atari2600> a 2d top down tank game does not need shaders at all[22:13:12] <myke> because then i can have awesome glow and other fx[22:13:20] <myke> lol i'm already using shaders[22:13:27] <myke> how am i gonna get that awesome glow otherwise?[22:13:29] <Atari2600> :)[22:13:36] <Atari2600> I do glow with software. it is easy too[22:13:44] <myke> i want my game to look like games in the 80s should have looked if we had the tech[22:13:49] <myke> think championship pacman dx[22:13:57] <Atari2600> I like my games to look like the 80s themselves[22:13:58] <myke> i do too but my software is shader code[22:13:58] <catphish> myke: the reason for doing it in software isn't great, i just wanted to do all the software from scratch, and i can't easily write a driver for hardware rendering[22:14:09] <Atari2600> catphish, keep doing by software[22:14:12] <Atari2600> it is easier to work and to debug[22:14:22] <myke> i want the future 80s[22:14:35] <catphish> the rendering engine is pretty simple pixels are just copied into place :)[22:14:50] <Atari2600> we should not endure the cognitive burden of moving to shaders, opengl contexts and the usual shit that comes with these things[22:14:51] *** mobile_c_ <mobile_c_!~mgood@2405:7f00:8805:8400:f4b4:339:1a3b:8a9e> has joined #gamedev[22:15:08] <catphish> i can comfortably do a couple of thousand 16x16 tiles in software[22:15:17] <Atari2600> yeah! bitmap blasting, as I love to say[22:15:26] <myke> i'm talking about this aesthetic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY7OCIvbrm8[22:15:32] <Atari2600> blast these bitmaps in the canvas[22:15:33] <myke> can't do that with actual 80s hardware[22:15:35] <Atari2600> BLASSHTHTHG[22:16:01] <catphish> yeah that's kinda high tech compared to what i'm doing[22:16:02] <Atari2600> myke, you don't need shaders to make these ghosts to change their pallete[22:16:07] <catphish> i'm only running at 480x270 :)[22:16:10] <Atari2600> pff it is silly[22:16:22] <catphish> to roughly approximate olde hardware :)[22:16:38] <Atari2600> I would rather use shaders for these ghosts if I had some GHOST HELL happening[22:16:55] <catphish> i'm using a sega genesis style conteroller (though i haven't got usb working yet)[22:16:58] <Atari2600> the math to rotate color pallete is dumb[22:17:11] <Atari2600> catphish, direct input?[22:17:34] <myke> shader code isn't that hard[22:17:34] <catphish> i was torn between direct input and usb, but usb seems more practical in 2018[22:17:37] <myke> why wouldn't you want to learn it?[22:17:39] <Atari2600> what is the linux equivalent for direct input? I never did anything outside the keyboard :D[22:17:50] <catphish> china doesn't really make non-usb gamepads[22:17:56] <Atari2600> myke, you are used to them and you are comfortable with them, so go ahead[22:18:02] <myke> here's one of the first shaders i ever did: https://www.shadertoy.com/view/4dGSDh[22:18:06] <myke> clean and simple[22:18:10] <Atari2600> I was working with CG since 2003. I know how annoying it can be[22:18:44] <Atari2600> I remember in 2005 when I was working for Hewlett Packard. I had two versions of my renders: software and hardware[22:18:52] <Atari2600> because it was impossible to debug the shaders[22:19:09] <pulse> i like this aesthetic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-woVCWk0ghQ&t=99s[22:19:15] <pulse> :][22:19:21] <pulse> ultra comfy[22:19:33] <Atari2600> can't tell much about the math model of my project because NDA, but it was complex enough to make me to get scared of all this opengl shit[22:19:47] * Donitzo hates that aesthetic[22:19:54] <Atari2600> opengl is powerful and very useful, but it is also terribly flaky[22:20:06] <Atari2600> it can't be instrumented[22:20:11] <pulse> it's 2038, use vulkan[22:20:17] <Atari2600> <3 joe & mac[22:20:23] <Atari2600> oh no[22:20:27] <Atari2600> it is its clone[22:20:28] <Atari2600> :([22:20:34] <catphish> this is my toy: https://i.imgur.com/WwmiQFq.jpg[22:20:35] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr0RSz-HPIw[22:20:39] <Atari2600> I hate that game, pulse[22:20:45] <catphish> all i have to do is write a million software[22:20:52] <pulse> Atari2600, i have way too much nostalgia for it to hate it[22:21:00] <Atari2600> yeah! I like to see it[22:21:02] <Atari2600> but not to play it[22:21:10] <pulse> it gets hard fast[22:21:10] <catphish> the aim is a 16 bit style cartridge driven console with hdmi[22:21:18] <Atari2600> during that time, they spawned a shit ton of platform clones[22:21:24] <Atari2600> I blame the bad Amiga devs[22:21:35] <Donitzo> eh[22:21:43] <pulse> i was always of the opinion that DOS platformers > NES platformers[22:21:47] <pulse> even SNES[22:21:48] <Atari2600> heh[22:21:53] <Atari2600> there are some good ones for DOS indeed[22:21:57] <Atari2600> but a lot of bad portings too[22:22:03] <Atari2600> and shitty PC-XT games, like Hard Hat Mac[22:22:10] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmpsMRXpi5A[22:22:27] <pulse> catphish, nice, but where does the cart go[22:22:33] <Atari2600> pulse, unfortunately, there are lots of bad portings from Apple II (80s) and from Amiga (90s) in DOS[22:22:48] <pulse> <-- MS-DOS superfan[22:22:56] <Donitzo> oh no[22:22:58] <Atari2600> pulse, you must be a 90s MS-DOS fan[22:23:00] <Donitzo> *pop*[22:23:03] <pulse> Atari2600, indeed[22:23:04] <Atari2600> LucasArts[22:23:15] <Atari2600> Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. best adventure ever[22:23:20] <pulse> i always laughed at consoles for not having mouse/keyboard[22:23:21] <pulse> :D[22:23:22] <Atari2600> and lots of (finally good) RPGs[22:23:25] <catphish> pulse: the board has a SD card slot, i will ultimately wire that to a cart slot, carts will carry an SD card :)[22:23:27] <pulse> they have some good games tho[22:23:31] <Atari2600> pulse, have you played HIDDEN AGENDA?[22:23:34] <pulse> catphish, ah, nice[22:23:38] <Atari2600> that game made me rethink the world :D[22:23:47] <pulse> Atari2600, nope[22:23:54] <Atari2600> you should[22:23:59] <pulse> only game that made me rethink the world was fallout[22:24:01] <pulse> pretty sure[22:24:03] <pulse> of it[22:24:06] <Donitzo> Jones![22:24:10] <pulse> Donitzo, oh yeah[22:24:12] <Donitzo> Made me rethink what fun games are[22:24:24] <pulse> jones in the fast lane is superb[22:24:37] <pulse> and ugh[22:24:38] <pulse> :D[22:24:49] <pulse> this yo! joe looks nice[22:24:51] <pulse> never played it[22:25:42] <Donitzo> What I really missed out on was the metroidvania style puzzle games on the MSX[22:25:49] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)[22:26:07] <Donitzo> castle something or the other[22:26:41] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ1b0vSS5lk[22:26:45] <catphish> anyway, my dream is a way off, gotta finish several APIs before i can even think of making a game[22:26:46] <Donitzo> looks freaking great[22:27:01] <Atari2600> pulse, JitFT !! ! ! ! ![22:27:13] <Atari2600> me and my friends played it like shit[22:27:17] <Atari2600> that one and.... COUNTDOWN[22:27:19] <Atari2600> <3[22:27:37] <Atari2600> I think Countdown is the only game from Access that I really like[22:27:49] <Atari2600> catphish, don't worry much about the APIs[22:27:52] <Atari2600> start with a small game[22:27:59] <Atari2600> the APIs will show up[22:28:09] <Atari2600> I refactored "my apis" three times already[22:28:35] <pulse> i've been toying with the idea of making a virtual console for years[22:28:39] <pulse> a cart is simply a binary file[22:28:56] <pulse> pretty much a rom[22:29:07] <Atari2600> I am trying to achieve that, but with LUA scripts[22:29:13] <pulse> but completely unique, and within some well defined boundaries[22:29:17] <Atari2600> :)[22:29:19] <Donitzo> a cart is not always only that[22:29:20] <catphish> Atari2600: i guess that's true to an extent, my graphics api works as far as renderSprite(sprite,x,y), so i'm getting basic control input working next[22:29:26] <Donitzo> some carts add extra functionality to the console[22:29:26] <catphish> but always thinking about how best to do things[22:29:28] <Atari2600> the name of my project is "wiki games"[22:29:29] <Donitzo> like graphical effects[22:29:33] <pulse> Donitzo, well, you could even simulate a battery in a file[22:29:33] <pulse> lol[22:29:38] <pulse> or save slots[22:29:43] <catphish> classic carts are pretty low level[22:29:44] <pulse> granted that would change the rom[22:29:45] <pulse> but still[22:30:18] <Donitzo> make punch card carts[22:30:30] <catphish> i'm taking a slightly different approach, most of the "hardware" is emulated in software, so the cart can contain differnet software to add "virtual" hardware[22:30:53] <catphish> graphics rendering is software, FM audio is software[22:31:08] <catphish> and all the software will be on a cart, so that stuff can be improved later as needed[22:31:22] <Donitzo> software audio sounds extremely inefficient[22:31:31] <Donitzo> you agree Jeroen Tel? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfYsDQqzhk8[22:31:33] <Donitzo> he agrees[22:31:44] <catphish> audio's pretty simple though[22:31:50] <catphish> compared to graphics rendering[22:32:04] <Atari2600> yeah! just play mp3[22:32:28] <pulse> Donitzo, nice musix[22:32:48] <Donitzo> the SID chip has pretty wonderful vibrato effects[22:32:48] <catphish> classic consoles have 2 different kinda of audio, both of which are easy enough in software[22:33:34] <catphish> i'll either so several channels of square, sine, triangle, and sawtooth, or several channels of configurable FM, or both[22:34:32] <pulse> didn't some consoles do that thing where you could switch on the fly[22:34:42] <pulse> what is that called i forgot[22:35:10] <catphish> yeah, 4 channels of selectable waveform[22:35:12] <pulse> where you could modulate a single channel multiple times in a single song[22:35:22] <catphish> the specific waveform on each can be changed at any time[22:35:40] <pulse> that's pretty rad[22:36:03] <catphish> i've been looking at the sega genesis, which is rather more advanced, rather than fixed waveforms, each channel is an FM synth[22:36:42] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQqma_AlVaE[22:37:09] <pulse> my fav from genesis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtHUxCExsRY[22:37:21] <pulse> incredible[22:37:53] <Donitzo> lol at stereo[22:37:57] <Donitzo> didn't realise it had control over that[22:39:09] <Donitzo> is my stomach serious... are you serious stomach[22:39:38] <Donitzo> for hell's sake I don't want to spend my entire vacation being sick[22:40:06] <Atari2600> pulse, too bad the game SUCKS[22:40:15] <pulse> i never played it[22:40:19] <pulse> i discovered the ost by accident[22:40:22] <pulse> it's really good[22:40:46] <Donitzo> did anyone play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcL_kM9twZk ?[22:40:49] <Donitzo> Game was ahead if its time[22:41:13] <pulse> nope but it looks interetsing[22:41:28] <pulse> movement looks really fluid[22:41:41] <Donitzo> also had a whole slew of special bonus levels[22:41:43] <Donitzo> and transformations[22:41:49] <Atari2600> Donitzo, why do you like Vectorman?[22:41:53] * pulse bookmarks for ideas[22:41:55] <Donitzo> because it's a good game[22:41:58] <Atari2600> it was just another platformer rip-off[22:42:21] <pulse> let me drop a nostalgia bomb on yall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5X69vREAg[22:42:26] <pulse> :^)[22:42:32] <Atari2600> if you want an above average game with a character that mutates into different forms, then try Kid Chameleon, at least[22:42:49] <Donitzo> > not wonderboy 2[22:43:01] <Atari2600> Red Alert was not bad at all[22:43:12] <pulse> two of my fav games of all times... c&c and c&c:ra[22:43:16] <pulse> the sequels don't even come close[22:43:29] <Atari2600> tiberian sun... PFFFFFFFF[22:43:29] <Donitzo> hey, tiberian sun was great[22:43:32] <Atari2600> no[22:43:32] <Donitzo> and firestorm[22:43:33] <pulse> it was[22:43:37] <Atari2600> burn it with fire[22:43:38] <pulse> ra2 was great too[22:43:39] <Atari2600> HOLY FIRE[22:43:43] <pulse> but the originals... in another galaxy[22:43:49] <Atari2600> C&C and RA.[22:43:53] <Atari2600> these are the good ones[22:43:54] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9PgSggWfeo[22:43:59] <pulse> Atari2600, tib sun had the greatest OST ever[22:44:02] <pulse> i listen to it religoiusly to this day[22:44:07] <Atari2600> too bad it was buggy and unbalanced[22:44:09] <Atari2600> and ugly too[22:44:16] <Atari2600> it seems it was rushed[22:44:21] <pulse> yeah i never liked the gameplay as much as the first ones[22:44:32] <pulse> i was a bit older too when it came out so maybe that had a lot to do with it[22:44:40] <Donitzo> tiberian sun wasn't focused on multiplayer afaik[22:44:43] <Atari2600> I never played firestorm[22:44:43] <Donitzo> which is why I loved it[22:44:51] <Donitzo> the singleplayer campaign was great and silly[22:44:53] <pulse> i played the original c&c so many times i still remember every corner of every level[22:45:06] <Atari2600> C&C was fun and with excellent multiplayer[22:45:14] <Atari2600> games took forever to finish, though[22:45:21] <Atari2600> it was easy to stand ground[22:45:56] <Atari2600> RTS games that favor defense will provide a terrible multiplayer experience[22:46:11] <Donitzo> modern RTSs focus way too much on being hyper-balanced meh[22:46:16] <Atari2600> yeah[22:46:18] <Atari2600> that is cool[22:46:23] <Donitzo> I didn't play gray goo though but I heard it was good[22:46:26] <Donitzo> and the soundtrack was great[22:46:27] <Atari2600> the art of achieving balance with different races/teams[22:46:50] <Atari2600> starcraft and rise of nations were the best balanced rts games so far[22:46:55] <pulse> Donitzo, true[22:47:02] <pulse> non-balance made it fun[22:47:06] <Atari2600> I like age of empires II, but it was not quite balanced. just fun[22:47:10] <pulse> that's why i never liked warcraft 2's gameplay[22:47:14] <pulse> way too similar sides[22:47:18] <Donitzo> you mean, age of building walls and towers?[22:47:20] <Atari2600> warcraft 2 is also not balanced[22:47:26] <pulse> the units are 99% the same[22:47:37] <Atari2600> orcs are better for early game, humans are better for mid game, orcs are better for end game[22:47:39] <Atari2600> not at all[22:47:46] <Atari2600> you don't know how to play warcraft II[22:47:46] <Donitzo> naw, warcraft 2 did have plenty of special units[22:47:48] <Atari2600> lololol[22:47:53] <Donitzo> exploding goblins[22:47:55] <Atari2600> orcs > humans[22:47:57] <Donitzo> warlocks with silly powers[22:48:01] <Donitzo> I think they were warlocks[22:48:12] <Donitzo> and ships[22:48:14] <Atari2600> but a good human player can defeat the orcs if they stand the early game and rushes in the mid game[22:48:14] <pulse> they had variety for boss units yeah[22:48:15] <pulse> :p[22:48:28] <Atari2600> bigger maps or slower players... ORCS WIN[22:48:28] <pulse> don't get me wrong, i love the crap out of war2[22:48:39] <pulse> but i never fell in love with the gameplay the same way i did with c&c[22:48:44] <Atari2600> pulse, let's play. I want to beat the crap out of you :D[22:48:55] <pulse> c&c was so unbalanced it was fun[22:48:57] <Atari2600> you gonna hate seeing my orc units smashing your poor village[22:49:01] <Donitzo> dogs![22:49:07] <pulse> Atari2600, you sure? :P i practiced openra A LOT[22:49:08] <pulse> :D[22:49:08] <Atari2600> I'm ready![22:49:11] <Atari2600> I'm not ready![22:49:18] <pulse> i know how to play strategies now[22:49:19] <pulse> hehe[22:49:25] <Atari2600> what is openra?[22:49:36] <pulse> opensource clone of red alert, c&c and dune[22:49:40] <pulse> and i think they're adding tibsun too[22:49:40] <Atari2600> ahhh[22:49:43] <Atari2600> interesting[22:49:46] <pulse> free multiplayer[22:49:48] <Donitzo> is it browser based?[22:49:48] <pulse> yeah it's pretty good[22:49:49] <Donitzo> and why not[22:49:50] <pulse> no[22:49:50] <Atari2600> they have a very different gameplay than war2, though[22:49:58] <pulse> it's super cross platform though[22:50:04] <Atari2600> how is the multiplayer / match making?[22:50:05] <pulse> i stopped playing because all the changes pissed me off[22:50:11] <pulse> idk, i haven't played for awhile[22:50:15] <Donitzo> I'd love to have a browser based red alert in which you can play against other players[22:50:18] <Atari2600> is there a server or should we should ip addresses via chat channels?[22:50:18] <pulse> i loved the game but they kept changing it[22:50:19] <Donitzo> come on, everyone would love that[22:50:26] <Atari2600> *should we shout*[22:50:30] <pulse> so i said fuck it, if you can't leave the game in a semi fixed state i'm not playing it[22:50:34] <pulse> i'm not learning new meta every week[22:50:37] <Atari2600> hehehehehe[22:50:40] <pulse> just so the balance could be 0.00000001% better[22:50:44] <pulse> i hate that[22:50:49] <Atari2600> that's why I was never into dota2[22:50:52] <Atari2600> too much meta[22:50:59] <Atari2600> too many changes in the meta as well[22:51:15] <Atari2600> and most of the players were total dorks[22:51:22] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC_UX2-gVS8[22:51:23] <Donitzo> new meta[22:52:09] <pulse> even more proof that c&c had tremendous soul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEfvfP4aMF0[22:52:26] <pulse> when you make an installer like that, you know you're making a masterpiece[22:52:42] <pulse> they kept that tradition up for the next few games too[22:52:44] <pulse> i really liked it[22:53:42] <pulse> RA was even better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri-VlJVxc-g[22:53:54] <pulse> that final quote was the best[22:54:14] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[22:54:30] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnd0qg4I_MM[22:54:33] <Donitzo> top notch acting[22:54:54] <Atari2600> lol[22:55:17] <pulse> hehe[22:56:18] <catphish> RA2 was awesome[22:56:33] <Donitzo> yes, that was before it went to shit[22:56:38] <Donitzo> with C&C 3[22:56:47] <Donitzo> or was it Red Alert 3[22:56:51] <Donitzo> the 3d one[22:56:54] <catphish> i never played any after RA2[22:57:20] <Donitzo> imo it became crap because it became too focused on multiplayer[22:57:58] <catphish> TA was the king of multiplayer[22:58:29] *** deiive <deiive!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:d412:5414:67f3:2594> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[22:58:34] <catphish> RA was much better for single player, so i can see why that would be a problem[22:59:00] <Atari2600> TA?[22:59:03] <Atari2600> what is TA?[22:59:10] <catphish> total annihilation[22:59:15] <Atari2600> bah! I never was into it[22:59:28] <catphish> i loved it for multiplayer[22:59:43] <Atari2600> I preferred starcraft, Aoe2 and rise of nations[22:59:48] <catphish> so much rage quit :)[22:59:50] <Atari2600> I had some love for age of mythology too[23:00:07] <Donitzo> the windows 95/2000 era was FULL of cool strategy games on PC[23:00:14] <Atari2600> it was fun, but not everyone liked it or even knew how to play it. same for Rise of Nations[23:00:29] <Atari2600> agreed[23:00:39] <Atari2600> Windows 2000 = the best windows <3[23:00:47] <coffee> I like you Atari2600 :)[23:00:50] <catphish> oh yeah, AoE seemed really popular, weirdly, i never played it[23:00:51] <Atari2600> <3[23:01:03] * Atari2600 likes coffee too[23:01:08] * Atari2600 is addicted to coffee actually[23:01:29] <coffee> I know[23:01:29] <Atari2600> this morning I drank coffee from Nicaragua[23:01:38] <Atari2600> this afternoon it was from Ethiopia[23:02:51] <pulse> starcraft was fun, but i never really fell in love with it[23:02:55] <pulse> it's kinda meh actually[23:03:00] <Donitzo> wololo[23:03:03] <pulse> units are very non-distinct[23:03:10] <pulse> and i didn't care for the story one bit[23:03:16] <Atari2600> wololo <3[23:03:20] <pulse> the multiplayer was fun, but it lost charm soon for me[23:03:21] <pulse> idk[23:03:21] <Donitzo> https://imgur.com/gallery/WllZb[23:03:29] <Atari2600> pulse, stop breaking my heart :([23:03:34] <Atari2600> the campaigns were awesome[23:03:35] <pulse> :D[23:03:38] <Atari2600> the multiplayer was fast paced[23:03:46] <pulse> maybe if i'd play it as a kid it would be different[23:03:47] <Atari2600> units very different, but with awesome mechanics[23:03:51] <Atari2600> splurt splurt splurt splurt splurt splurt[23:03:57] <pulse> yeah it has good balance and the meta is top notch[23:04:01] <Atari2600> starcraft: brood wars[23:04:04] <pulse> multiplayer is really good[23:04:08] <Atari2600> blizzard rules[23:04:14] <pulse> what i didn't like about it is how mushy and fuzzy the graphics are[23:04:14] <coffee> my favorite game of all time is ultim aonline[23:04:21] <Atari2600> I *almost* worked there[23:04:34] <Atari2600> if I were single and did not care much for money, I would be there right now[23:04:39] <Atari2600> working in their lovely games[23:04:41] <pulse> blizzard today is not the blizzard of then[23:04:48] <pulse> it's activision now[23:04:50] <Atari2600> it is still fun. I go there sometimes[23:04:59] <pulse> they sold their souls[23:05:05] <pulse> for money[23:05:07] <Atari2600> hmm not like EA[23:05:11] <pulse> "gameplay first" my ass[23:05:14] <Atari2600> they have a good workplace environment[23:05:41] <pulse> diablo mobile should give you a good idea of just how disconnected they are from their audience today[23:05:44] <pulse> they used to be the top dog[23:05:59] <Donitzo> diablo mobile sounds like a game made on a board meeting[23:06:01] <pulse> now they're just another soulless company[23:06:07] <Donitzo> rather than dreamt up by a gamedev[23:06:11] <pulse> Donitzo, the sad thing is it will still sell[23:06:14] <pulse> and make them millions[23:06:19] <Atari2600> overwatch is still amazing[23:06:31] <pulse> idk, i never played overwatch[23:06:34] <Donitzo> yes, overwatch is a great genre on porn[23:06:34] <Atari2600> battle.net is a nice gaming environment[23:06:37] <Atari2600> lol[23:06:38] <Donitzo> I heard it inspired an FPS[23:06:39] <pulse> i tend to stay away from hyped games[23:06:44] <pulse> it may be good[23:06:47] <Atari2600> I hate FPS[23:06:51] <Atari2600> and I can play Overwatch[23:06:52] <Atari2600> :D[23:06:53] <pulse> all i know is overwatch has the most game-inspired porn out there[23:06:58] <Atari2600> and Duke Nukem 3D and Doom[23:07:00] <Atari2600> that is it[23:07:14] <pulse> for me the #1 fps will always be quake1[23:07:19] <Atari2600> pulse, later today you should paste some interesting links to us[23:07:41] <Atari2600> even Phoenix Wright has game inspired porn[23:08:22] <Donitzo> I don't think I've ever seen quake porn[23:08:33] <Donitzo> unless you count quake 4[23:08:48] <Atari2600> and quake mods :)[23:09:00] <Atari2600> with giant dicks :([23:09:16] <Donitzo> and mods like this: NSFW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxyPzqEuBDE[23:09:28] <Atari2600> gonna click on it later[23:09:33] <pulse> i've seen resident evil porn[23:09:36] <pulse> :/[23:09:44] <pulse> i don't even know what these people are consuming[23:09:47] <pulse> i'm guessing meth[23:10:03] <pulse> Donitzo, lolwut[23:12:13] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has joined #gamedev[23:13:55] <Donitzo> oh god[23:14:00] <Donitzo> the spraycan[23:14:04] <Donitzo> I'm choking[23:14:39] <pulse> takes guts to fap to this[23:17:30] <Atari2600> meh, you are making me curious[23:17:34] <Atari2600> but i can't click now[23:18:47] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[23:20:47] <Donitzo> Hmm, to or not to drink and code[23:20:59] <Donitzo> I'm always worried the next morning that I messed something up[23:21:30] * pulse shakes the 8-ball[23:21:38] <pulse> Outlook: not so good[23:22:29] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined #gamedev[23:31:21] *** NiniGeo2 <NiniGeo2!~NiniGeo2@c-73-178-72-18.hsd1.nj.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[23:33:57] *** code_zombie <code_zombie!~code_zomb@2605:a601:aa1:da00:fcc3:803:ab1f:49c5> has joined #gamedev[23:37:46] <Donitzo> what do you name the class which manages the events in the scene[23:37:51] <Donitzo> the script or director so to say[23:38:43] <Atari2600> EventManager :D[23:39:01] <Donitzo> Considered it, but it sounds a bit misleading[23:39:06] <Donitzo> event manager sounds like a manager for events[23:39:14] <Donitzo> rather than something which directs the scene[23:39:30] <Donitzo> it's more complex than simple events[23:39:39] <Donitzo> there will have to be some conditionals and stuff like that[23:40:22] <Donitzo> create point of interest, wait for player to look at it, create some new entities[23:40:34] <Atari2600> manager for events ---> the class which manages the events in the scene[23:40:44] <Atari2600> just pasting your own words[23:41:41] <Donitzo> Director I guess works[23:41:45] <Donitzo> like in left4dead[23:42:31] <Atari2600> :)[23:42:47] <Atari2600> have you read about the Mediator Design Pattern?[23:42:52] <Atari2600> you might be doing something like that[23:43:58] <Donitzo> sounds very formal[23:44:14] <Donitzo> I'm doing something pretty quick and dirty for this[23:44:33] <Donitzo> ie, horror game[23:51:08] <Atari2600> Mediator decouples the publisher from the subscribers[23:52:54] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[23:55:20] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:8159:54eb:3d0b:98e> has quit IRC (Quit: The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing)[23:56:48] <pulse> i just put an event queue in my scene and work with that[23:56:58] <pulse> no need to abstract the queue further[23:56:59] <pulse> i think