January 2, 2019 
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | >
January 2, 2019 [00:00:08] <o][o> but porn games usually suck (except by Yab Yum and Porntris)[00:00:18] <jprajzne> no porn anymore, my brain has been rewired too many times :)[00:00:28] <o][o> pr0n is never enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!![00:00:48] <jprajzne> cats > porn (on the internets) :))[00:01:19] <o][o> and in my home =^.^=[00:01:33] <o][o> cats > kids[00:01:33] <jprajzne> see? :)[00:07:00] <Donitzo> cats + porn > kids[00:09:56] <R2robot> #rabbitHole[00:12:00] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.125.57.214> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[00:12:59] <o][o> yeah! there is always one pervert in the crowd :([00:13:25] <o][o> but yeah! if you happen to have the Porntris game, please gimme a copy![00:13:37] <Donitzo> haven't seen it in a very long time[00:15:31] <mobile_c> can partical systems be used for physics interactions, such as for example water turning into gas[00:15:47] <mobile_c> if the water is a partical system itself[00:16:19] <Donitzo> bit of an n-body issue[00:16:25] <Donitzo> particles can simulate either[00:16:56] <R2robot> o][o: you made that game with teh girls shooting dildo rockets out of their butts, right? lol[00:17:35] <mobile_c> as i have two partical systems meant to simulate heat and ice, and i want... them to react to eachother[00:17:47] <Donitzo> well they would have to be in the same system[00:18:02] <mobile_c> in UE4[00:18:38] <Donitzo> aww, you don't want actual water molecules to change state by changing density and velocity?[00:18:39] <Donitzo> fo[00:19:00] <mobile_c> lmao[00:19:03] <o][o> R2robot: I wrote the rendering functions :D[00:19:12] <R2robot> lol[00:19:14] <o][o> but I didn't draw the amazing art[00:19:24] <mobile_c> that would probs lagg the pc a ton with all those water and gass molecules[00:19:24] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[00:19:54] <Donitzo> I think they're the same[00:20:04] <mobile_c> gas*[00:20:10] <Donitzo> water vapour vs ice vs water[00:20:30] <Donitzo> H2O[00:20:35] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has joined #gamedev[00:20:38] <mobile_c> eh[00:21:33] *** b3nszy <b3nszy!~b3nszy@207-244-182-155-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net> has joined #gamedev[00:21:38] <b3nszy> hello[00:22:04] <b3nszy> anyone here make simulations[00:22:08] <b3nszy> or virtual worlds[00:22:15] <Donitzo> well, it is #gamedev[00:22:16] <Donitzo> so yes[00:23:00] <b3nszy> ok well I have a lot of questions[00:23:01] <mobile_c> i cant seem to find anything about it on youtube[00:23:02] <b3nszy> and ideas[00:23:13] <b3nszy> if anyone would like to help me out[00:23:27] <b3nszy> I've been primarily interested in AI research for the past 3 years[00:23:51] <b3nszy> but for several reasons find virtual worlds/virtual environments to be a promising area[00:24:10] <b3nszy> It's kind of linked to embodied intelligence/situated cognition if anyone is familiar[00:24:43] <R2robot> do you have a specific question?[00:24:43] <b3nszy> but what Id like to do is build complex interconnected virtual worlds. Maybe have it procedurally generated idk[00:24:55] <b3nszy> derived from simple rules similar to cellular automaton[00:25:07] <b3nszy> and have this lead to complex emergent worlds[00:25:12] <Donitzo> tried it, but it's kinda difficult to figure out some simple basic units to work with :P[00:25:13] <b3nszy> what would I need to build such a thing[00:25:15] <Donitzo> this is the best I got[00:25:24] <Donitzo> http://minicells-prototype.herokuapp.com[00:25:47] <b3nszy> What is this Donitzo[00:26:21] <Donitzo> the most basic 2d world+physics I could think of[00:26:46] <Donitzo> with creatures made from axis aligned blocks created with their own neural networks[00:26:57] <Donitzo> based on chromosomes from a genetic algorithm trying to optimize a goal[00:27:00] <b3nszy> See this is interesting[00:27:11] <b3nszy> but my theory is that the world has to be complex in itself[00:27:13] <Donitzo> but it's not good enough[00:27:21] <b3nszy> Yeah you focused on the agent[00:27:26] <Donitzo> there must be an even simpler basic "unit" to work with[00:27:38] <Donitzo> something which has infinite capacity for evolution and growth[00:27:48] <b3nszy> yeah open-ended evolution[00:28:03] <b3nszy> but my idea is to focus on first building a proper virtual world[00:28:07] <b3nszy> to house these agents[00:28:07] <Donitzo> but then again, humans took like what, billions of years of evolution in a universe sized simulation?[00:28:32] <b3nszy> a compelx emergent world founded thats highly interconnected capable of self-orginization and causality[00:28:44] <b3nszy> do you have any clue how I could build such a thing[00:29:08] <o][o> there is no pain, you are receeding[00:29:40] <Donitzo> it's so bloody difficult to make an emergent world in which things happen in a reasonable timeframe[00:29:57] <o][o> seriously you hoped to get free consultation in IRC channels about a system like this?[00:30:04] <Donitzo> I'll postulate this[00:30:09] <Donitzo> and really consider this[00:30:33] <b3nszy> I was more looking for relevant resources on things like this[00:30:38] <o][o> what are they giving to these kids to eat today?[00:30:42] <Donitzo> if you implemented a 2D engine which was nothing but particles effected by gravity[00:30:45] <Donitzo> could it evolve intelligence?[00:30:48] <b3nszy> maybe there's a field within cs I don't know about that deals with modeling and desining simulations of complex systems[00:30:53] <b3nszy> I can't find anything on google though[00:31:07] <o][o> I am really disappointed with is becoming of all these millenials[00:31:33] <b3nszy> what are you talking about o][o[00:31:41] <b3nszy> I wasn't looking for free consultation lol[00:31:51] <b3nszy> Donitzo: I don't now[00:31:53] <b3nszy> know*[00:31:57] <Donitzo> hmm[00:32:02] <o][o> you are asking us how to build a giant fucking emergent world with evolving AI[00:32:03] <Donitzo> well, that's about as basic as I can think of[00:32:13] <b3nszy> I'm not asking you to build anything[00:32:21] <o][o> [18:28] <b3nszy> do you have any clue how I could build such a thing[00:32:23] <Donitzo> yes o][o, but you don't need to create the entire world, just the spark[00:32:23] <b3nszy> im asking if you know any fields within cs related to such a thing[00:32:27] <o][o> oh yeah, you asked for a CLUE[00:32:33] <b3nszy> Donitzo: exactly[00:32:36] * o][o calls Velma[00:32:42] <b3nszy> a seeded world[00:32:52] <b3nszy> that's what I meant being procedurally generated from simple rules[00:33:01] *** NiniGeo2 <NiniGeo2!~NiniGeo2@c-73-178-72-18.hsd1.nj.comcast.net> has joined #gamedev[00:33:06] <b3nszy> similar to the certain rules with wolframs CA that lead to complexity[00:34:01] <b3nszy> building the world by hand would be pointless[00:34:10] <b3nszy> just as I think building an AI from hand is pointless[00:34:29] <b3nszy> these things require a very general architecture( a seed) that can grow into something without control[00:35:25] <Donitzo> yes, building an "expert system" is an awful way to make an AI[00:35:49] <b3nszy> yeah but so are most of the current approaches imo[00:36:15] <b3nszy> just how in a civilization emergence of collective intelligence comes from the fact that at the most basic level, agents, have freedom[00:36:28] <Donitzo> and goals of course[00:36:38] <b3nszy> so if you're desining top down AI systems there's no freedom of the basic agents that make up the agent[00:36:46] <b3nszy> idk if you're familiar with minsky's society of mind[00:36:49] <b3nszy> but sort of similar to that[00:36:49] <o][o> lol[00:36:51] <LunarJetman> b3nszy: go get a fucking job at Hello Games[00:36:55] <o][o> :D[00:37:12] <b3nszy> what is that[00:37:13] <o][o> LunarJetman: I gonna play a Speccy game in your homage now[00:37:18] <LunarJetman> you are asking "how do I make No Man's Sky"[00:37:26] <LunarJetman> the answer is get a fucking job at Hello Games[00:37:31] <b3nszy> Don't know what no mans sky is[00:37:53] <Donitzo> beh, ignore it[00:37:56] <b3nszy> Im trying to learn how I can ptentially build an open-ended virtual world governed by some universal darwinism[00:38:05] <LunarJetman> b3nszy: No Man's Sky[00:38:05] <Donitzo> he's trying to create life, not a fancy 3D game[00:38:07] <b3nszy> that can eventually be complex enough to house agents[00:39:15] <Donitzo> again, may take billions of years for the universe to get to that point[00:39:18] <Donitzo> which is the crux of the issue[00:39:28] <b3nszy> good thing its simulated on a computer[00:39:31] <Donitzo> you need some type of handholding[00:39:39] <LunarJetman> b3nszy: " Players are free to perform within the entirety of a procedurally generated deterministic open world universe, which includes over 18 quintillion planets. Through the game's procedural generation system, planets have their own ecosystems with unique forms of flora and fauna, and various sentient alien species may engage the player in combat or trade within planetary systems."[00:39:41] <Donitzo> a computer would be even slower than the real universe[00:39:54] <Donitzo> ie, I guess you may have better luck with a petri-dish of minerals[00:40:01] <Donitzo> to get really basic[00:40:27] <b3nszy> I have a theory that an agent is only complex as it's environment[00:40:34] <b3nszy> given that the universe is extremely complex in nature[00:40:40] <b3nszy> it makes sense humans would be equally complex[00:40:48] <b3nszy> I'm not trying to make AGI[00:40:59] <b3nszy> im trying to just make a complex virtual world[00:41:11] <b3nszy> capable of handling simple embodied agents[00:41:20] <b3nszy> but first I want to start with making the world[00:41:31] <NiniGeo2> Why do you want to make the complex virtual world capable of handling simple embodied agents?[00:41:45] <o][o> because... (bug)[00:42:02] <b3nszy> because I think it would be useful to understand things such as creativity, cognition, intelligence, etc[00:42:45] <b3nszy> and eventually I think AGI will come out of a similar pursuit[00:42:56] <b3nszy> I'm a believer in enactivism theory in cognition[00:42:58] <LunarJetman> what is AGI?[00:43:05] <b3nszy> artificial general intelligence[00:43:18] <b3nszy> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enactivism[00:43:22] <LunarJetman> sounds like an abbreviation you just made up[00:43:36] <LunarJetman> it certainly has dubious cromulency[00:43:44] <b3nszy> No it's a thing[00:43:47] <R2robot> lol[00:43:49] <b3nszy> there's a journal called AGI[00:43:53] <LunarJetman> prove it is a think[00:43:53] <Donitzo> artificial general intelligence is just a name for the type of AI you see in movies[00:44:02] <LunarJetman> thing*[00:44:19] <b3nszy> http://agi-conf.org/[00:44:20] <b3nszy> https://content.sciendo.com/view/journals/jagi/jagi-overview.xml[00:44:41] <LunarJetman> the correct response is to paste wiki URL thusly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligence[00:45:20] <LunarJetman> wiki is indicative of cromulency as it is peer reviewed[00:45:50] <b3nszy> no clue what cromulency means[00:46:45] <b3nszy> so do you get what I mean Donitzo? It might be unknown atm but im looking for a starting point to build such a world. Im not worried about the actual agents I'd just like to figure out a way to build the world.[00:46:52] <LunarJetman> b3nszy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_the_Iconoclast#Embiggen_and_cromulent[00:47:02] <Donitzo> Yes I understand what you mean. As I said I've been trying to solve it myself[00:47:11] <b3nszy> and I though game design might be a suitable way of entry[00:47:11] <Donitzo> keep coming down to arbitrary evolution simulations[00:47:14] <Donitzo> booring[00:47:49] <b3nszy> how do you approach it? Donitzo[00:48:23] <Donitzo> well, start with a world which is extremely efficient to simulate[00:48:27] <Donitzo> like the 2D world I made[00:48:29] <Donitzo> really simple physics[00:48:32] <Donitzo> quick to simulate[00:48:52] <b3nszy> ok[00:48:56] <o][o> what language? :D[00:49:00] <Donitzo> you can also do something like flow[00:49:02] <o][o> I hope it is C++[00:49:02] <Donitzo> javascript[00:49:05] <o][o> js? lol[00:49:06] <LunarJetman> we are probably already living in a simulation.[00:49:12] <o][o> you will never accomplish it with js[00:49:13] <o][o> give up[00:49:17] <Donitzo> we are not talking orders of magnitude o][o[00:49:18] <Donitzo> it doesn't matter[00:49:22] <o][o> still lol[00:53:01] <b3nszy> anyway is game design a good place to go to do the things im talking about Donitzo[00:53:10] <Donitzo> yes[00:53:11] <b3nszy> or is AI research a better path[00:53:24] <Donitzo> formal machine learning is more math than anything[00:53:29] <Donitzo> what you need is ideas :P[00:53:37] <b3nszy> when I say AI research I don't mean ML lol[00:53:51] <b3nszy> although most of AI research is made up of that[00:54:01] <b3nszy> cognitive architectures is somethign im very interested in[00:54:05] <b3nszy> as well as embodied cognition[00:54:17] <NiniGeo2> Have you tried working on your own cognitive architecture b3nszy?[00:54:25] <Donitzo> "hypothesis about the fixed structures that provide a mind"[00:54:30] <Donitzo> how, have you read how the human brain works?[00:54:30] <b3nszy> I help out with one called NARS[00:54:33] <Donitzo> god*[00:54:41] <Donitzo> it's pretty mental[00:54:58] <Donitzo> which is why I'm so worried about trying to evolve similiar structures[00:55:05] <Donitzo> it took a very very long time for the brain to evolve to the way it is[00:55:09] <b3nszy> NiniGeo2: It's just a bunch of models of cognition linked together[00:55:20] <b3nszy> but there's one model that's called bounded seed AGI[00:55:23] <b3nszy> that's very interesting[00:55:40] <LunarJetman> my ECS now supports patches: https://i.imgur.com/grg2qoh.png (the patches are the different textures which make up the mesh which is the playing card).[00:55:51] <b3nszy> That's true Donitzo[00:56:03] <b3nszy> but with computers we can accelerate evolution[00:56:10] <Donitzo> I'm not sure about that[00:56:10] <b3nszy> also who said it had to be biological[00:56:15] <Donitzo> computers are not faster than real life[00:56:18] <Donitzo> at an atomic scale[00:56:24] <b3nszy> we can apply the basic prinicples of evolution to none biologically inspired AGI[00:56:25] <b3nszy> AI[00:57:01] <b3nszy> whats needed to build something like second-life[00:57:09] <Donitzo> a lot of teenagers[00:58:05] <b3nszy> is the actual simulation difficult to make?[00:58:08] <Donitzo> maybe you should focus on some kind of pressure for making life evolve[00:58:16] <Donitzo> well[00:58:16] <b3nszy> well death[00:58:22] <LunarJetman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2grpRFT-ok[00:58:23] <Donitzo> death is a response to life[00:58:34] <NiniGeo2> Second-Life was made with a team of people over many years, plus then a lot of iteration with players over many more years.[00:58:43] <b3nszy> yeah but the actual world[00:58:54] <b3nszy> is there anything special about the world[00:58:55] <Donitzo> hmm[00:59:02] <b3nszy> virtual world*[00:59:07] <NiniGeo2> The world in SecondLife is special in that it's mostly constructed by players.[00:59:32] <Donitzo> maybe fill the world with some type of energy units... which... "want" to coalesce and move[00:59:45] <Donitzo> eh[01:00:36] <b3nszy> but the world without players[01:00:43] <b3nszy> is not complex or emergent in anyway[01:00:46] <b3nszy> correct?[01:01:02] <b3nszy> it seems very difficult to simulate[01:01:06] <Donitzo> I think worlds are intrinsically emergent[01:01:08] <b3nszy> but the world would require causality[01:01:21] <b3nszy> if I take all players out of slife[01:01:26] <b3nszy> will the world change in anyway[01:01:36] <Donitzo> depends on if you like time[01:01:46] <b3nszy> what do you mean[01:02:14] <Donitzo> can't have causality without time[01:02:24] <Donitzo> well, something time-like at least[01:02:38] <NiniGeo2> I think that there are simulation elements in SecondLife's world itself, but if you include the user-generated content, then the world is also made up of all sorts of user-scripted objects, each ticking away on their own little scripts that do something different.[01:03:18] <Donitzo> kinda like space engineers in that way[01:03:19] <NiniGeo2> Even games like Minecraft, which have world-simulation elements, only actually run their simulations when players are around (in order to conserve computational and memory resources). But even if you ran the whole world all the time, it would eventaully reach a stable state.[01:04:07] <b3nszy> that's very interesting[01:04:37] <NiniGeo2> I think that it's quite possible to construct a system that simulates a virtual world that has interesting emergent properties, but I'm not convinced that that is the most time-efficient way to produce a game that players find fun.[01:04:40] <b3nszy> side note[01:04:45] <b3nszy> but will wrights new game looks very cool[01:04:46] <Donitzo> minecraft[01:04:47] <b3nszy> proxi[01:04:53] <Donitzo> perfect example of emergent properties[01:05:09] <b3nszy> my goal is a game for players to find fun though NiniGeo2[01:05:09] <Donitzo> though with quite a lot of different basic building blocks[01:05:10] <LunarJetman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKNoU2P0dQc[01:05:11] <Donitzo> hehe, blocks[01:05:41] <b3nszy> anyway for virtual world building is there an introductory book or course? NiniGeo2[01:05:53] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnpAAX9CkIc[01:05:55] <Donitzo> here, watch this video[01:06:33] <NiniGeo2> Hmmm... I am not sure. I would guess that most of the books on worldbuilding that I am aware of have more to do with writing fiction than with constructing simulations.[01:06:51] <b3nszy> no virtual world design[01:06:51] <Donitzo> that's the definiton of worldbuilding I think[01:07:01] <b3nszy> sorry I didn't mean world building[01:07:43] <NiniGeo2> Oh hmmmm, there are many books published on game level design. I think that those would likely contain tidbits of information each that might be useful for your endeavor :)[01:08:01] <b3nszy> hmm I guess there arent any[01:08:12] <NiniGeo2> But beyond those, I am not sure which books are available on virtual world design. I guess a follow-up question might be, "What are you looking to learn from these books?"[01:08:19] <b3nszy> Im thinking of books to go through building just virtual worlds[01:08:27] <b3nszy> 3d, 2d, simulations, etc[01:08:32] <b3nszy> also im interested in god games[01:08:39] <b3nszy> they're similar to what im talking about[01:08:53] <b3nszy> how to build virtual worlds NiniGeo2[01:09:22] <Donitzo> then you have already considered a spherical planet world as in populous[01:09:54] <Donitzo> which isn't a half-bad framework for a world[01:10:42] <NiniGeo2> I'm sorry b3nszy, but I don't know of any books that are specifically about that topic. Maybe some exist, but I just don't know of them yet! :o[01:10:58] <NiniGeo2> It does sound like an interesting area of research though.[01:11:15] <NiniGeo2> Have you tried doing some simple small-scale experiments on your own?[01:11:18] <Donitzo> also, look up "voxels"[01:11:28] <b3nszy> I dont know how to start NiniGeo2[01:11:38] <b3nszy> Im completely new to game stuff[01:11:49] <b3nszy> but its the closest thing to building virtual worlds I can think of[01:11:56] <b3nszy> any idea of a good way to start/ :)[01:12:01] <NiniGeo2> Yes, games often contain virtual worlds, so it makes sense![01:12:02] <Donitzo> you say you want an emergent world[01:12:06] <Donitzo> but what do you consider a world[01:12:16] <Donitzo> just a flat plane?[01:12:23] <Donitzo> emergent weather + terrain?[01:12:30] <Donitzo> emergent structures, but what type[01:12:51] <Donitzo> without intelligence a lump is dirt is a world[01:12:57] <b3nszy> I had this idea[01:12:59] <NiniGeo2> Oh. Well I would start with one of the interactions you want to model. Like say maybe you could start by modelling objects falling under the influence of gravity. And then after that, you could simulate bouncing and friction. And then after that you could try modelling different materials. It's a bottom-up approach, but eventually it might get you where you want to go~[01:13:00] <b3nszy> thought experiment[01:13:05] <b3nszy> to imagine what its like to be a computer agent[01:13:07] <b3nszy> how would you think[01:13:10] <b3nszy> how would you move[01:13:17] <b3nszy> and then design a world that makes sense[01:13:23] <b3nszy> it doesnt have to be physically inspired[01:13:46] <Donitzo> then it may not even have spatial dimensions[01:13:52] <Donitzo> but I assume you want those[01:13:58] <Donitzo> also time[01:14:01] <o][o> good luck debugging your spaghetti callbacks[01:14:11] <Donitzo> different conversation[01:14:30] <NiniGeo2> xD[01:14:57] <NiniGeo2> b3nszy that sounds like more A.I. than worldbuilding to me :][01:15:55] <b3nszy> yes[01:15:57] <b3nszy> my goal is AI[01:16:07] <b3nszy> but I think the world is just as important as the agent[01:16:22] <Donitzo> hmm[01:16:28] <Donitzo> maybe go about it the other way[01:16:40] <Donitzo> create some basic type of life and have the world evolve to serve their needs[01:16:50] <Donitzo> just a thought[01:18:05] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[01:18:11] <b3nszy> its been done though[01:18:20] <b3nszy> nobody has tried to build complex worlds yet[01:18:29] <b3nszy> they always build really simple worlds[01:18:35] <b3nszy> and expect their agents to be intelligent in them[01:19:29] <NiniGeo2> Hehe, I think that complex intelligence is really difficult :P[01:19:38] <NiniGeo2> Have you tried constructing a simple intelligence first to get your feet wet?[01:20:17] <o][o> no!!! I want everything at once!!!!![01:20:50] *** b3nszy <b3nszy!~b3nszy@207-244-182-155-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:21:15] <aeth> So my plan is to create an artificial general intelligence (strong AI) and use it to remotely be every NPC on everyone's game (so, yes, single-player would be online-only but that's because in effect it's 1 player + thousands of "bots" controlled by one AI)[01:21:23] *** b3nszy <b3nszy!~b3nszy@207-244-182-155-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net> has joined #gamedev[01:21:25] <aeth> You'll have to stick to a simple intelligence, though.[01:21:26] <b3nszy> sorry I dc'd[01:21:33] <NiniGeo2> S'okay[01:21:34] <b3nszy> please send what I missed[01:21:38] <b3nszy> ive made simple agents before[01:22:04] <NiniGeo2> Oh cool. What is the big difference that you see between the simple agents you've created in the past versus this proposed new complex agent?[01:22:11] <Donitzo> if you want simple intelligence, start with making an AI based on a behaviourtree[01:22:15] <aeth> define complex, first of all[01:22:18] <Donitzo> then evolve a world to fit their needs[01:22:21] <Donitzo> I think it may work[01:22:22] <aeth> hopefully not too complex[01:22:59] <b3nszy> complex is many individual parts acting within a non-closed system[01:23:18] <b3nszy> interacting*[01:23:49] <Donitzo> AestheticScore -> CheckView -> Too complex? Not complex enough? Too many individals?[01:23:56] <Donitzo> make observers which want a beautiful world[01:23:57] <aeth> make it as simple as possible imo[01:24:01] *** NiniGeo2 is now known as DinnerGeo2[01:24:02] <DinnerGeo2> BRB[01:25:08] <b3nszy> so goal based agents Donitzo?[01:25:17] <b3nszy> Is game design a good domain to explore agents and AI[01:25:22] <Donitzo> yes, treat the agents as... test subjects[01:25:24] *** kitsunenokenja <kitsunenokenja!~kitsunech@68.91.220.96> has joined #gamedev[01:25:25] <b3nszy> The problem with AGI is its a pipe dream[01:25:27] <Donitzo> rather than proper AIs[01:25:29] <b3nszy> so its hard to do actual world[01:25:41] <b3nszy> Im thinking game design would be a good field to go into to make these things a reality[01:26:02] <Donitzo> then test again and again[01:26:05] <aeth> eh[01:26:08] <Donitzo> create billions of worlds[01:26:18] <Donitzo> and keep the ones which can support your agents[01:26:23] <b3nszy> yeah I had this idea[01:26:25] <Donitzo> and the ones your agents thrive in[01:26:28] <b3nszy> HOW though[01:26:28] <aeth> You don't need to make an AGI to have a fun game.[01:26:30] <b3nszy> im not asking how[01:26:37] <b3nszy> but where do I start[01:26:41] <Donitzo> As I said, BehaviourTree is your best bet[01:26:42] <b3nszy> I want to go in that direction[01:26:51] <Donitzo> for the agents[01:26:59] <b3nszy> will wrights games are interesting[01:27:04] <b3nszy> sims, sporg, proxi[01:27:12] <b3nszy> spore[01:27:15] <aeth> Make a game, make it modular, replace the AI module later if you want. Do a placeholder AI, though.[01:27:34] <b3nszy> is there a good book to start with game design[01:27:38] <b3nszy> or course aeth[01:27:50] <aeth> http://gameprogrammingpatterns.com/contents.html[01:27:54] *** LunarJetman2 <LunarJetman2!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has joined #gamedev[01:27:58] <aeth> Well, the programming side of it.[01:28:04] <Donitzo> meh[01:28:26] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[01:28:39] <Donitzo> rules rules[01:28:57] <Donitzo> create basic universal constants. Seed the universe with particles[01:29:04] <Donitzo> allow the universe to cool down and collect itself[01:29:06] <Donitzo> release agents[01:29:14] <Donitzo> score the universe based on how much they thrived[01:29:18] <Donitzo> repeat millions of times[01:29:19] <aeth> Donitzo: 60 seconds a frame would be hard to achieve with those goals.[01:29:25] <b3nszy> that's an awesome idea[01:29:30] <b3nszy> so evolution of possible worlds[01:29:48] <Donitzo> yes. Should be easy if you used a static AI as I said[01:29:51] <Donitzo> and again, trees[01:29:54] <Donitzo> very simple to code[01:30:00] <Donitzo> can support really complex rules[01:30:28] <b3nszy> the rules should be simple imo[01:30:31] <aeth> No game works at the level of atoms, let alone particles.[01:30:43] <b3nszy> I agree[01:30:44] <aeth> Well, you can do some fancier simulation, but it's at a cost and it usually means simpler something else.[01:30:55] <aeth> Games with complicated fluid mechanics are usually simple 2D games, for instance.[01:31:05] <b3nszy> Ive heard of logical generation[01:31:07] <b3nszy> fo conceptual worlds[01:31:12] <b3nszy> like house, car, city, etc[01:31:18] <b3nszy> can these concepts interact somehow/[01:31:44] <Donitzo> particles can be used to create volumes[01:31:47] <aeth> If you wanted to generate a world, and then treat the world like a normal game world in game time, it's possible, but you'd probably still need to simplify. And you'd probably only want to proc gen it once, ahead of time, and ship the result to everyone.[01:31:47] <Donitzo> using a few simple rules[01:32:34] <Donitzo> just of the top of my head[01:32:40] <b3nszy> ok imagin this game[01:32:42] <b3nszy> group of 5 players[01:32:49] <b3nszy> generate a world using a mixture of rules[01:32:55] <b3nszy> go into the world and search for 'creatures'[01:32:59] <b3nszy> or intelligent agents[01:33:04] <b3nszy> and try to find intelligent agents[01:33:07] <b3nszy> has this been done before?[01:33:11] <Donitzo> Particle: Density, position XYZ, velocity XYZ[01:33:28] <Donitzo> have particles push away other particles based on their density[01:33:40] <Donitzo> have particles attract each other aka gravity[01:33:51] <Donitzo> (based on some type of grid-based approximation)[01:34:06] <aeth> You might be able to get away with that in 2D[01:34:08] <Donitzo> that should create a simple world[01:34:14] <Donitzo> no no, I'[01:34:20] <Donitzo> m not talking about "small" particles[01:34:22] <Donitzo> rather. Expand them[01:34:35] <Donitzo> make a particle something like a 0.5 meter sphere[01:34:42] <o][o> fap[01:35:21] <Donitzo> alternatively add a few different types of particles[01:35:41] <b3nszy> but this is just a simulation of physics[01:35:48] <Donitzo> well, you wanted a world[01:35:51] <b3nszy> what would be the use for this[01:35:55] <b3nszy> a world can be anything[01:36:00] <b3nszy> doesn't have to be similar to our world[01:36:58] <aeth> just make a standard fake world with fake video game physics that runs well in real time.[01:37:24] <aeth> if you want to focus on AI (and don't even think you'll get close to AGI, have realistic expectations) then make that your sole focus and keep everything else as simple as possible[01:37:33] <aeth> turn based might be ideal[01:38:03] <aeth> If it's turn based, then AI actually matters. If it's not turn based the AI can cheat by being dumb but thinking/reacting faster than human players.[01:38:23] <pulse> since we're spiritual beings, AGI is clearly impossible :&)[01:38:32] <pulse> wet dream by materialists[01:38:34] <pulse> :D[01:38:45] * pulse fades into the shadows[01:39:07] <LunarJetman2> pulse: no, we are not.[01:39:26] <pulse> oh?[01:39:27] <pulse> :D[01:39:27] <b3nszy> I had a none ai goal[01:39:30] <b3nszy> to build a virtual world[01:39:39] <b3nszy> for online university students[01:39:46] <b3nszy> similar to second-life[01:39:55] <LunarJetman2> there is no such thing as spirit, soul, god.[01:40:06] <aeth> b3nszy: Make a 2D overhead or isometric real time game[01:40:10] <pulse> LunarJetman2, there is no such thing as existence or reality[01:40:11] <pulse> oh wait[01:40:13] <aeth> LunarJetman2: If gods aren't real then how come god games exist[01:40:35] <R2robot> 3d open world action RPG, writing my first engine... first game btw[01:40:37] <b3nszy> is taking will wrights masterclass on game design useful[01:40:38] <b3nszy> ?[01:40:44] <b3nszy> $80[01:40:45] <Donitzo> if gods aren't real we need to create them[01:40:56] <LunarJetman2> gods can only exist if MUH is true.[01:40:56] <pulse> i like thor[01:40:56] <aeth> b3nszy: You probably want to make something like this: https://screeps.com/[01:40:58] <pulse> the proper god[01:41:01] <aeth> b3nszy: Have your players do the AI work[01:41:29] <aeth> pulse: Thor's just an Avenger[01:41:44] <Donitzo> Thor is a woman[01:41:45] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcoa7OMAmRk[01:41:47] <pulse> i like this video so much[01:41:54] <pulse> shuts up all AI enthusiasts immediately[01:42:10] * Donitzo gets triggered when people talk about robots when they mean AI[01:42:16] <aeth> lol, YouTube: disproving academics since 2005[01:42:26] <pulse> aeth, it's an academic talking about it[01:42:52] <pulse> cognitive AI is a wet dream postulated by people with lack of understanding of what's going on[01:42:58] <pulse> AI hasn't progressed much since the 60s[01:43:03] <b3nszy> ok mr know it all[01:43:17] <b3nszy> you clearly have no clue what you're talking about[01:43:18] <LunarJetman2> fuzzy logic[01:43:24] <pulse> b3nszy, clearly :D[01:43:53] <Donitzo> mmm, well. I suppose the mapping of connectomes and invention of a billion subtypes of neural network is progress[01:43:58] <aeth> My favorite YouTube video is the one that proves the Moon landing hoax: if the Moon landing was real, then how come NASA didn't do the much easier Minmus landing first? In fact, they still haven't done one! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ[01:43:58] <Donitzo> networks*[01:44:34] <pulse> Donitzo, except theory has been there all along and all we have now is faster machines[01:44:38] <pulse> :D[01:44:49] <Donitzo> not really[01:44:54] <pulse> well, for the most part[01:44:57] <Donitzo> again, neural networks have progresssed a lot[01:44:58] <pulse> i know there's been some actual development[01:45:41] *** luchus <luchus!~luchus@206.132.109.98> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:45:48] <b3nszy> https://www.masterclass.com/classes/will-wright-teaches-game-design-and-theory[01:45:55] <b3nszy> is this worth the money[01:46:03] *** luchus <luchus!~luchus@206.132.109.98> has joined #gamedev[01:46:15] <pulse> mm nice sim city backdrop[01:46:22] <pulse> i like it[01:46:28] <LunarJetman2> gods can only exist if MUH is true and as we don't know if MUH is true or false agnosticism is advisable.[01:46:41] <pulse> what is MUH[01:46:50] <LunarJetman2> Mathematical Universe Hypothesis[01:47:01] <pulse> eh[01:47:08] <LunarJetman2> Mathematical Universe Hypothesis[01:47:17] <pulse> sounds irrelevant to me[01:47:26] <pulse> math is invented by humans, it's an abstraction[01:47:29] <pulse> space rocks don't care much about rocks[01:47:33] <pulse> err, math*[01:47:34] <LunarJetman2> false[01:47:52] <LunarJetman2> 2+2=4 has always been true even before this universe ever existed[01:47:52] <pulse> there's no math to speak of in the universe, as far as i can tell anyway[01:47:59] <Donitzo> When my god is online I'm going to have it travel back in time and put you in a state of eternal torment[01:48:05] <pulse> LunarJetman2, 2+2=4 is a human abstraction. a useful one, but an abstraction nevertheless[01:48:23] <pulse> Donitzo, is it one of the ancient ones[01:48:30] <Donitzo> not yet[01:48:30] <LunarJetman2> pulse: so aliens don't have maths? you are talking bullshit[01:48:44] <pulse> LunarJetman2, aliens may or may not have math. do bears care about math?[01:48:48] <pulse> do worms?[01:49:22] <LunarJetman2> "Tegmark's MUH is: Our external physical reality is a mathematical structure.[3] That is, the physical universe is not merely described by mathematics, but is mathematics (specifically, a mathematical structure). Mathematical existence equals physical existence, and all structures that exist mathematically exist physically as well. Observers, including humans, are "self-aware substructures (SASs)". In any mathematical structure compl[01:49:23] <LunarJetman2> ex enough to contain such substructures, they "will subjectively perceive themselves as existing in a physically 'real' world".[4]"[01:49:45] <pulse> i understand the argument but i politely disagree with it :p[01:49:51] <pulse> as it's pretty silly[01:49:56] <LunarJetman2> nonsense[01:50:05] <LunarJetman2> you are simply wrong[01:50:07] * pulse quadruple-shrugs[01:50:12] <LunarJetman2> mathematics is not just an abstraction[01:50:34] <o][o> wtf is going on here?[01:50:47] <LunarJetman2> you are confusing a man-mad language that describes mathematics with mathematics[01:50:48] <o][o> mathematics are models[01:50:53] <LunarJetman2> you are confusing a man-made language that describes mathematics with mathematics[01:50:57] <aeth> As someone who has formally (not just armchair) studied both mathematics and philosophy... I can safely say that I would need about 4 more years in both to be able to even form an opinion on MUH. Probably also some mandatory physics in there, too.[01:51:16] <Donitzo> actually, the debate doesn't have a true answer[01:51:22] <Donitzo> it's neither and both[01:51:31] <Donitzo> math is instrinsic and man-made[01:51:35] <pulse> the biggest question in metaphysics is why does the universe exist. answer that, and then i'll take MUH seriously[01:51:36] <aeth> My intuition tells me that math is what we use to describe patterns, though.[01:51:37] <LunarJetman2> if MUH is true then our universe is a mathematical simulation[01:51:52] <pulse> 0 = 1 really doesn't make sense to me[01:51:53] <pulse> :D[01:52:02] <o][o> for someone who is atheist.. you seem to be very guillible[01:52:23] <LunarJetman2> if MUH is true there will be an infinite number of universes and possibly an infinite number of gods as supernaturalism would be an advantageous evolutionary trait[01:52:32] <pulse> LunarJetman2, what came before?[01:52:33] <aeth> Math as it is practiced is, essentially, just arbitrary axioms and their consequences. Applying math is just observing and trying to fit a mathematical pattern to the observations. Does the underlying pattern actually extist to some extent in the universe? Dunno.[01:52:36] <o][o> lick muh balls[01:52:54] <pulse> even if there's an infinite number of universes, there had to be a start somewhere, right[01:53:04] <Donitzo> hmmm[01:53:07] <pulse> or is it just an infinite something and it's always been there[01:53:09] <LunarJetman2> pulse: that is the beauty of MUH: we don't have to worry about what came before as 2+2=4 has ALWAYS been true[01:53:09] <o][o> gargle muh balls[01:53:12] <pulse> see this doesn't make sense to me[01:53:22] <pulse> LunarJetman2, yeah but who/what made it true?[01:53:28] <pulse> how is it true?[01:53:29] <o][o> your mom[01:53:31] <pulse> and why[01:53:35] <Donitzo> the universe could create itself... but from what exactly[01:53:38] <o][o> because she wanted to eat more[01:53:45] <Donitzo> what type of basic universe engine does it run at[01:53:48] <Donitzo> it's a bit mental tbh[01:53:48] <LunarJetman2> nobody made it true as it has always been true[01:53:48] <pulse> and it may even be relative, how do we know in some other universe 2+2 doesn't = 5[01:53:51] <aeth> LunarJetman2: Nah, the fun thing is if there are some universes where 2+2=4 is somehow not true and we're only in a universe where coherent mathematical patterns exist.[01:53:58] <pulse> LunarJetman2, by what principle?[01:54:01] <pulse> or mechanism[01:54:16] <Donitzo> maybe it makes more sense if you ignore time[01:54:17] <pulse> i know the question is unanswearable, i'm merely trying to get the point across that it boggles my mind to no end[01:54:35] <o][o> how useful are you[01:55:00] <LunarJetman2> o][o: you have asserted that I am gullible: please backup this assertion; how am I gullible exactly?[01:55:05] <aeth> pulse: Well, we can know that certain things are impossible, if they produce a contradiction. Assuming 2 + 2 = 5 but 5 = 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 and 2 = 1 + 1 and all of our usual rules hold we get (1 + 1) + (1 + 1) = 5, then 4 = 5. So 4 = 4 + 1, i.e. 0 = 1[01:55:12] <o][o> LunarJetman2: you seem to believe things[01:55:12] <aeth> And from 0 = 1 you can pretty much derive anything.[01:55:23] <pulse> the question is really about the first mover[01:55:28] <LunarJetman2> I seem to believe things. wow. what a fucktard.[01:55:31] <o][o> you talk like a mormon. or worse... as a scientologist[01:55:46] <pulse> o][o, err, can you plz stop with the personal assaults ........[01:55:57] <o][o> I was answering his question[01:56:00] <LunarJetman2> not once have I stated if I believe MUH is true or false[01:56:21] <LunarJetman2> in fact I said we don't know if it is true or false[01:56:26] <pulse> funny how riled people get when their ideologies are being questioned[01:56:32] <LunarJetman2> so try again[01:56:36] <o][o> [19:47] <LunarJetman2> 2+2=4 has always been true even before this universe ever existed[01:56:50] <aeth> LunarJetman2: I don't see how infinite universes imply gods and the supernatural[01:57:03] <LunarJetman2> aeth: s/infinite/mathematical/[01:57:04] <aeth> o][o: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/platonism-mathematics/[01:57:16] <pulse> aeth, personally i find the fact that anything exists pretty damn supernatural. but that's just my view[01:57:20] <o][o> math religion ftw[01:57:37] <pulse> if you really think about it, it makes no sense[01:57:40] <pulse> things shouldn't exist[01:57:42] <o][o> no wonder why all the mathematicians are dorks :-/[01:57:42] <Donitzo> yeah I don't really see the logical pathway from a mathematical universe to gods either[01:57:45] <pulse> the fact that they do, is super weird[01:57:54] <pulse> is it god? idk, probably not. it's an outdated concept[01:58:03] <pulse> but what the fuck moved it from non-being to being?[01:58:06] <pulse> it's weird.[01:58:15] <Donitzo> the idea of a creator isn't illogical[01:58:19] <Donitzo> but it just makes the rabbit hole deeper[01:58:36] <LunarJetman2> if reality is mathematics then our universe is a simulation; a video game if you will. the supernatural can only exist as part of a simulation so MUH needs to be true for the supernatural (including gods) to exist.[01:58:44] <Donitzo> naw[01:58:49] <LunarJetman2> yep.[01:58:52] <Donitzo> I mean, what would the opposite be?[01:58:52] <pulse> if this reality is a simulation, that postulates some kind of a computer[01:58:54] <pulse> where is this computer[01:58:55] <pulse> :D[01:58:57] <Donitzo> that the universe works on magic?[01:59:00] <pulse> and how many cores does it have[01:59:14] <o][o> Donitzo: yup! Tim Hunter already proved it[01:59:20] <pulse> Donitzo, that's pretty much what i think, but every time i say it i feel more mad and people tell me i'm mad. so i just don't say it anymore[01:59:32] <aeth> Can a vague creator or creators exist? Possible. Can you then make the leap, as often is the case in arguments like this, that this God is the God of the Bible, specifically a Protestant denomination interpretation of the inerrant Bible, etc.? No. (Or replace that god with some other god depending on the apologist.)[01:59:44] <pulse> well, the god of the bible is a horrible, horrible being[01:59:50] <pulse> so i hope to all that's holy that's not the case[01:59:51] <o][o> he got better with time :)[01:59:58] <Donitzo> the problem is that the idea of a creator doesn't actually EXPLAIN anything[02:00:00] <pulse> i'd rather have thor[02:00:02] <pulse> a proper god[02:00:05] <LunarJetman2> pulse: if MUH is true than reality is an infinitely complex mathematical structure which would be SIMILAR to a conventional computer in a purely abstract sense[02:00:09] <o][o> a god of anger became a god of love <3[02:00:28] <pulse> LunarJetman2, which makes no sense to me because i don't see the mechanism that made math what it is[02:00:36] <pulse> which may be because i'm a dumb ape on a space rock[02:00:39] <pulse> but still[02:00:44] <o][o> I miss gamedev discussions[02:00:49] <aeth> pulse: You can worship Thor, I can worship Iron Man[02:00:52] <Donitzo> naw this discussion is fine[02:00:52] <pulse> hey, this is game dev discussion :P[02:00:53] <o][o> irc philosophy sucks[02:00:59] <Donitzo> way more stimulating than what I normally talk about[02:00:59] <LunarJetman2> it isn't much different to reality being a hologram on the event horizon on a black hole[02:01:07] <LunarJetman2> of a*[02:01:08] <o][o> this is worse than a bar talk[02:01:09] <o][o> no booze[02:01:17] <Donitzo> so why not get booze?[02:01:43] <Donitzo> naw, the hologram universe thing is entirely different[02:01:44] <pulse> LunarJetman2, i mean i can accept all sorts of crazy ideas but to this day no one has explained to me what the first mover is or by which mechanism a universe sprung into being[02:01:48] <Donitzo> that just changes the shape of the universe[02:01:52] <Donitzo> but doesn't explain how it came to be[02:01:54] <pulse> and if the universe always existed, well, that's terrifying[02:02:03] <aeth> Lots of things are possible. The real question is if there's any evidence that it's likely. Speculating about things we won't be able to prove or disprove in our lifetimes is not productive imo[02:02:08] <pulse> terrifying in a kind of lovecraftian way[02:02:09] <LunarJetman2> pulse: you appear to be conflating the term "reality" with the term "universe"[02:02:15] <pulse> LunarJetman2, what's the difference?[02:02:28] <LunarJetman2> one reality; many universes[02:02:34] <pulse> uni-verse[02:02:38] <pulse> it's in the word[02:02:45] <LunarJetman2> multiverse is the worf[02:02:48] <LunarJetman2> word[02:02:51] <LunarJetman2> mate[02:02:54] <aeth> Many universes are possible, but can we establish that? Can we determine an experiment that would demonstrate that?[02:02:55] <Donitzo> omniverse, because I like cartoons[02:03:07] <pulse> if the multiverse exists, it has to be embedded in some kind of a uni-multiverse, will you agree to that?[02:03:09] * o][o needs free game art[02:03:14] <Donitzo> opengameart[02:03:17] *** OtakuSen1ai <OtakuSen1ai!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[02:03:19] <o][o> yeah[02:03:21] <LunarJetman2> it is likely a new universe is created at each quantum event[02:03:21] <o][o> it will have to be[02:03:28] <aeth> pulse: Just call it a cinematic universe[02:03:31] <pulse> o][o, GIMP + time + skill = free game art[02:03:36] <Donitzo> + blender[02:03:38] <o][o> not free[02:03:40] *** OtakuSen1ai is now known as dx_ob[02:03:42] <Donitzo> you can make some really nice 2d art with blender[02:03:44] <o][o> time = money[02:03:46] <o][o> skill = money[02:03:54] <o][o> gimp is free, though[02:03:57] <pulse> Donitzo, i gotta learn that. would be awesome[02:03:59] <aeth> not free by opportunity cost, no[02:04:02] <LunarJetman2> pulse: no; reality might be mathematics not a "universe"[02:04:06] <Donitzo> I think I have an image here[02:04:14] <o][o> I do a lot of stuff with gimp[02:04:18] <o][o> but it is WORK[02:04:46] <pulse> i'd rather spend 3 weeks in gimp than use free art[02:05:06] <o][o> heh[02:05:07] <pulse> i hate having my art the same as some other game[02:05:14] <Donitzo> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ftn5avfud5qjlt/sprites_player.png?raw=1[02:05:19] <Donitzo> blender nodes are really quite great[02:05:26] <Donitzo> made that model in like 5 minutes[02:05:28] <aeth> What's worse is when people take entire levels from the Unity Asset Store and think no one will notice. I notice.[02:05:33] <o][o> what is this supposed to mean?[02:05:41] <pulse> Donitzo, looks interedasting[02:05:43] <LunarJetman2> Unity is for script kiddies.[02:05:45] <aeth> Sure, reuse assets, free or paid, but don't make it your levels and don't make it your main characters.[02:05:52] <o][o> Donitzo: I don't get the image[02:05:59] <Donitzo> try again[02:06:11] <o][o> are they frames of a moving ball?[02:06:15] <LunarJetman2> I fixed my mesh patches: https://i.imgur.com/grg2qoh.png \o/[02:06:25] <Donitzo> it was supposed to be a player ship[02:06:29] <Donitzo> shadow and ship[02:06:30] <o][o> o_O[02:06:52] <pulse> LunarJetman2, how's neogfx? any progress[02:07:09] <aeth> LunarJetman2: 20 years ago I would just have assumed that's a game with fake money but now I don't know anymore[02:07:31] <LunarJetman2> it is a game with fake money[02:07:37] <aeth> good[02:07:54] <aeth> can I pay to get better cards, though?[02:07:54] <LunarJetman2> pulse: today I fixed my sub-textures so mesh patches work[02:08:31] * pulse nods, pretending to know what LunarJetman2 is talking about[02:08:59] <Donitzo> like he said. He fixed his fluxcapacitors and now subspace patches work[02:09:04] <pulse> :D[02:09:04] <LunarJetman2> traditionally a 3D mesh has just one texture; my patch system lets you have child textures as "patches": the playing cards for example: I don't have 52 textures; I just wan't the textures needed to make up the playing card[02:09:18] <pulse> hmm[02:09:20] <LunarJetman2> s/wan't/want/[02:09:23] <pulse> sounds cool[02:09:59] <aeth> sounds like a use for array textures[02:10:26] <Donitzo> sounds like a job for spritesheets tbh[02:10:49] <aeth> https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Array_Texture[02:10:58] <LunarJetman2> Donitzo: I use an texture atlas so there is only one real texture[02:10:59] <aeth> You can use 2048 of them, or more, if the hardware supports more[02:11:35] <Donitzo> so... less supported sprite atlases?[02:11:41] <LunarJetman2> I have logical textures and physical textures; playing card elements are logical (sub-) textures[02:15:23] <o][o> var bomb = "💣"; console.log(bomb.length); // 2[02:15:28] <o][o> don't use js. ever[02:16:08] <pulse> i like JS[02:16:24] <o][o> JavaScript’s string type is backed by a sequence of unsigned 16-bit integers, so it can’t hold any codepoint higher than U+FFFF and instead splits them into surrogate pairs.[02:16:30] <pulse> it's a pandora's box filled with rainbows and fluffy demons[02:16:58] <Donitzo> it's also in a sandbox and is less likely to fuck up your computer when running unsafe code[02:17:27] <LunarJetman2> o][o: it's called UTF-16.[02:17:28] <Donitzo> in the browser that is[02:17:39] <o][o> except it is not[02:17:56] <LunarJetman2> yes, it is.[02:18:08] <pulse> extended ASCII is where it's at, tbh[02:18:10] <o][o> console.log(bomb.charCodeAt(0).toString(16)); // d83d console.log(bomb.charCodeAt(1).toString(16)); // dca3[02:18:16] <pulse> sweet 255[02:18:40] <LunarJetman2> UTF-16 is useless; use UTF-8 or UTF-32.[02:18:58] <aeth> use UTF-7[02:19:02] <pulse> ^[02:19:03] <o][o> :D[02:19:18] <Donitzo> you get one free bit[02:19:18] *** DinnerGeo2 is now known as NiniGeo2[02:19:22] <Donitzo> for hookers and blow[02:20:18] <o][o> :D[02:22:52] <pulse> time to binge watch seinfeld, see yall in a week[02:23:34] <o][o> I will do the same with High Score Girl <3[02:23:52] <Donitzo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP2GMyQdw78[02:24:49] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfaO3A-m13Q[02:32:10] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[02:38:27] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-24-166-114-198.neo.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[02:46:26] *** luchus <luchus!~luchus@206.132.109.98> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[02:49:50] <LunarJetman2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6LvzS5SbQ4[02:52:10] *** luchus <luchus!~luchus@206.132.109.98> has joined #gamedev[02:55:57] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[03:00:41] *** cheakoirccloud <cheakoirccloud!uid293319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-omggdmjizlyqesev> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[03:18:16] *** cheakoirccloud <cheakoirccloud!uid293319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oqvjhqnapqjrezxz> has joined #gamedev[03:29:33] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[03:50:03] *** luchus <luchus!~luchus@206.132.109.98> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[03:51:14] *** luchus <luchus!~luchus@181.88.178.10> has joined #gamedev[03:58:27] *** luchus <luchus!~luchus@181.88.178.10> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[04:03:35] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)[04:16:33] *** rtypo <rtypo!~alex@unaffiliated/rtypo> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[04:19:28] *** OtakuSen1ai <OtakuSen1ai!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[04:20:56] *** OtakuSen1ai is now known as Nawab[04:24:26] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:d16:83ec:2b2b:e25f> has joined #gamedev[04:49:59] *** xrash <xrash!~xrash@177.102.209.30> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[04:51:07] *** kitsunenokenja <kitsunenokenja!~kitsunech@68.91.220.96> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[04:57:54] *** Nawab <Nawab!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)[05:06:39] *** OtakuSen1ai <OtakuSen1ai!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[05:16:08] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has quit IRC (Quit: pulse)[05:25:37] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[05:26:09] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[05:26:14] *** OtakuSen1ai is now known as Nawab[05:33:10] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[05:35:09] <LunarJetman2> the next version of my IRC client will be OpenGL and will play like a video game[05:49:39] <[Relic]> idle or button smasher? :)[05:50:45] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:c412:e7fb:46d1:ee> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[05:51:58] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:1c6d:be52:a67b:3d8> has joined #gamedev[05:53:36] *** Nawab <Nawab!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[05:55:14] *** Nawab <Nawab!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[06:03:12] *** LunarJetman2 <LunarJetman2!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has quit IRC (Quit: LunarJetman2)[06:07:32] *** b3nszy <b3nszy!~b3nszy@207-244-182-155-dhcp.mia.fl.atlanticbb.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[06:09:21] *** RoadKillGrill <RoadKillGrill!~RoadKillG@cpe-24-166-114-198.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[06:18:11] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:4d4d:e232:ce11:3bf9> has joined #gamedev[06:25:26] *** Nawab <Nawab!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[06:26:14] *** Nawab <Nawab!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[06:30:41] *** cheakoirccloud <cheakoirccloud!uid293319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oqvjhqnapqjrezxz> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[06:31:20] *** Nawab <Nawab!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[06:34:07] *** veridiam <veridiam!~veridiam@S010674d02b5e3c80.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[06:43:04] *** pdemier <pdemier!~phildemie@cpe-98-26-2-10.nc.res.rr.com> has joined #gamedev[06:52:16] *** andrew <andrew!~quassel@75-109-240-142.stjocmtk01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net> has joined #gamedev[06:58:41] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[07:00:14] *** batman_nair <batman_nair!~batman_na@111.92.74.136> has joined #gamedev[07:04:18] *** batman_nair <batman_nair!~batman_na@111.92.74.136> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[07:10:49] *** pdemier <pdemier!~phildemie@cpe-98-26-2-10.nc.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[07:17:16] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:1c6d:be52:a67b:3d8> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[07:25:01] *** OtakuSen1ai <OtakuSen1ai!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[07:34:40] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has joined #gamedev[07:48:08] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[07:48:21] *** NiniGeo2 <NiniGeo2!~NiniGeo2@c-73-178-72-18.hsd1.nj.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Nini peeps!)[07:50:22] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has joined #gamedev[07:51:07] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[07:52:34] *** jprajzne1 <jprajzne1!jprajzne@nat/redhat/x-ccfzjlthewdbqgya> has joined #gamedev[08:01:39] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.42.118.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has joined #gamedev[08:15:18] *** notus <notus!uid244649@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ukuntvuewolwyjti> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[08:15:28] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:4d4d:e232:ce11:3bf9> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[08:50:54] *** OtakuSen1ai is now known as dx_ob[08:54:49] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[08:56:17] *** suppahsrv <suppahsrv!~mopmop@host243-207-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has joined #gamedev[09:06:28] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has joined #gamedev[09:14:06] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.125.57.214> has joined #gamedev[09:27:19] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[09:46:41] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has joined #gamedev[09:47:47] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[10:15:24] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined #gamedev[10:28:16] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has joined #gamedev[10:40:44] *** archangelpetro <archangelpetro!~petrov@unaffiliated/archangelpetro> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[10:48:38] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[10:52:49] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@net-93-67-12-40.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined #gamedev[10:56:06] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[10:56:32] *** immibis <immibis!~immibis@125-238-72-168-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[10:56:55] <murii> do I have to license a game sold on Steam or will Steam take care of that?[10:58:09] *** [Brain] <[Brain]!~brain@cpc141592-mfl22-2-0-cust912.13-1.cable.virginm.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[11:04:52] <Cahaan> to do what?[11:07:50] <murii> to be sure I don't lose the right as the owner to it[11:10:27] <Cahaan> why would you?[11:11:04] <Cahaan> you mean, you want to protect your creation right?[11:11:10] <murii> yes[11:11:34] <Cahaan> you basically have nothing to do[11:12:01] <Cahaan> if anything wrong happens you just need to prove that you were the first one[11:12:14] <Cahaan> anything can be used for that, blogs, twitter, your submission to steam...[11:12:31] <murii> cool,cool[11:12:34] <Cahaan> de facto you're protected[11:16:01] <Cahaan> send me your game now please[11:16:16] <Cahaan> I'll make sure everything is in order[11:21:09] *** mrkake <mrkake!~kake@209.6.195.29> has quit IRC (Quit: ouch)[11:23:25] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[11:28:30] *** mrkake <mrkake!~kake@209.6.195.29> has joined #gamedev[11:43:59] *** mobile_c_ <mobile_c_!~mgood@2405:7f00:8805:8400:e55c:a90d:1cf2:979> has joined #gamedev[11:45:20] *** Thurien <Thurien!~quassel@ip5f5ac9e2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has joined #gamedev[11:45:56] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mgood@cpe-172-192-2-161.qld.foxtel.net.au> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[12:01:03] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[12:23:51] *** Thurien <Thurien!~quassel@ip5f5ac9e2.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[12:31:31] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[12:32:58] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has joined #gamedev[12:40:52] *** xrash <xrash!~xrash@177.102.209.30> has joined #gamedev[13:05:49] *** ZeroSystem <ZeroSystem!45f81b6b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.248.27.107> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[13:21:14] *** shake <shake!~shake@5.28.69.107> has joined #gamedev[13:30:50] *** fidasx <fidasx!~fidasx@ppp-94-66-221-18.home.otenet.gr> has joined #gamedev[13:57:06] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[14:02:13] *** sedeki <sedeki!~textual@unaffiliated/sedeki> has joined #gamedev[14:05:57] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[14:09:16] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has joined #gamedev[14:33:15] *** sedeki <sedeki!~textual@unaffiliated/sedeki> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[14:34:58] *** sedeki <sedeki!~textual@unaffiliated/sedeki> has joined #gamedev[14:45:23] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #gamedev[14:46:04] *** sedeki <sedeki!~textual@unaffiliated/sedeki> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[15:13:22] *** notus <notus!uid244649@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tybhhoufownpjhye> has joined #gamedev[15:20:42] *** LunarJetman <LunarJetman!LunarJetma@94.196.247.102.threembb.co.uk> has joined #gamedev[15:26:47] *** ZorKum <ZorKum!580143e9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.1.67.233> has joined #gamedev[15:27:14] *** fidasx <fidasx!~fidasx@ppp-94-66-221-18.home.otenet.gr> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:27:39] <ZorKum> Hi all, i want to start learn game programming, but i dont know what game engine is better to start with game programming (Unity or Unreal Engine )[15:27:54] <ZorKum> i work a little with source engine but only mod things[15:28:11] <ZorKum> i know the basics of C++ but i need to learn the maths for game programming[15:28:18] <ZorKum> someone can help me?[15:28:47] <brainzap> Unity, game maker or Godot give you a good start with great tutorials[15:29:06] <Cahaan> what kind of games do you want to do[15:29:25] <Cahaan> I like Godot a lot. If I had to make an FPS I'd pick Unreal Engine though[15:29:32] <ZorKum> i like third person shooters and first person shooters[15:29:44] <Cahaan> then Unreal Engine would be my personal pick[15:30:09] <ZorKum> Cahaan do you know a good start point to learn maths and apply into games?[15:30:10] <Cahaan> and you an work with C++[15:30:57] <Cahaan> just read a book about vectors applied to 3D video games to start with, and try to play with the engine... a lot of things are done for you[15:31:00] <Cahaan> (like physics etc.)[15:31:35] <Cahaan> tbh you can think about making an entire game with Unreal Engine with just some basic maths[15:33:07] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:36:02] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@net-93-67-12-40.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[15:36:13] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined #gamedev[15:36:24] <ZorKum> Ok thanks :D[15:38:11] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[15:39:52] <mobile_c_> how do i calculate the target speed based on the spawn speed and distance apart i want each spawn to be, for example, i want X to spawn 7 times per second with 5 distance between each X[15:43:48] <mobile_c_> as i do know that velocity is distance over time, however to obtain the time it takes to get from point A to point B i need to know how long it takes to get there thus i need to know its velocity[15:48:17] <brainzap> the speed is (5-1)*7 per s ?[15:50:44] <mobile_c_> that equates to 0 if sps is 1 lol[15:50:52] <mobile_c_> (1-1)*7[15:50:56] <mobile_c_> is 0*7[15:50:58] <mobile_c_> is 0[15:50:59] <mobile_c_> lol[15:51:34] <mobile_c_> if distance is 1 *[15:55:51] *** ZorKum <ZorKum!580143e9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.1.67.233> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[15:56:39] <brainzap> does it have to accelerate first?[15:57:10] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[16:00:07] *** veridiam <veridiam!~veridiam@S010674d02b5e3c80.vs.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[16:02:01] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[16:06:35] *** pulse <pulse!~pulse@unaffiliated/pulse> has joined #gamedev[16:07:52] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has joined #gamedev[16:13:12] *** [Relic] <[Relic]!~Relic]@2602:306:33a3:6d30:89fc:3428:a05b:7466> has joined #gamedev[16:13:42] <Atari2600> see? that is what happen when you skip and despise the basic math classes[16:15:09] <programmerq> one of the very first games I made was before I had done any physics stuff in school. I wanted to have a sort of gravity and ended up making a non-constant acceleration model.[16:15:40] <programmerq> I was pretty young still, and I think the gravity and acceleration stuff came up in school not long after I had done it[16:15:59] <programmerq> I knew it didn't 100% feel quite right, but I liked the motion I had created anyway.[16:16:45] <programmerq> I think it was something like a pong clone and I wanted the ball to move more dynamically.[16:17:18] <brainzap> gamedev is where all the knowledge comes togethere because you are literally building a new reality[16:17:18] <pulse> calculus III or go home[16:17:31] <pulse> multivariable integrals is where it's at[16:17:48] <brainzap> oh pulse happy new year[16:17:59] <pulse> same to you brainzapsky[16:18:08] <pulse> and everyone else[16:18:12] <brainzap> pulse: https://t.co/xmlFtGCj3K[16:18:31] <pulse> :S[16:18:58] <pulse> <- 10th day[16:20:01] <DaScoot> the new year is a scam by Big Calendar to make you buy new calendars all the time[16:20:07] <DaScoot> wake up sheeple[16:20:09] <pulse> who buys calendars[16:20:16] <pulse> i get like 3 for free every year[16:20:40] <pulse> not that i need them[16:21:18] <jprajzne1> jars shouldn't smoke that much :))[16:21:28] <brainzap> only calenders with lewd nudes[16:21:34] <jprajzne1> (no self-cleansing caps)[16:21:46] <brainzap> why would you buy a calendar, they are free at the end of the year lol[16:22:08] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCl3BdlICY[16:22:36] <pulse> back when smoking was healthy[16:22:51] <brainzap> dude dont look at it or your brain goes ham[16:22:57] <brainzap> distract yourself with some gamedev[16:23:08] <pulse> i really don't crave cigarettes[16:23:10] <pulse> i never liked them[16:23:16] <pulse> they taste awful and they give you a mild headache[16:23:19] <pulse> i crave weed, lol[16:23:39] <pulse> not that it's a problem though[16:23:58] <pulse> i was around people smoking for nys eve for hours and i didn't smoke any[16:24:03] <pulse> if i can get through that, i can get through anything[16:25:08] <pulse> i've been watching people talking about getting off meth and the likes for inspiration sake[16:25:10] <pulse> now that's gotta suck[16:25:19] <pulse> even alcohol[16:25:21] <brainzap> yeah I was thinking about using some small dose of weed but then you an just take an aspirin[16:25:22] <pulse> terrible drug[16:25:42] <pulse> weed actually makes your head hurt more usually[16:25:46] <brainzap> also its not like there is a more dangerous legal drug on the market[16:26:04] <pulse> weed is like a mild emotion amplifier, if you feel bad you're gonna feel worse after[16:26:13] <pulse> and if you feel good you're likely gonna feel better[16:26:21] <brainzap> oh that explains all these depressed kids[16:26:29] <pulse> but it also gives you paranoia and a shit load of side effects that i don't care for[16:26:41] <pulse> the only really good thing about weed is it makes you sleep like a baby[16:26:45] <pulse> all the other stuff i don't miss[16:26:58] <pulse> sleep is a bitch tho[16:27:03] <brainzap> the paranoia is annoying, everytime I send a friend a link, she is like: I did not click could be a virus[16:27:38] <Atari2600> well, some links ARE suspicious[16:28:18] <Atari2600> if you start spamming me tiny URLs, for example, I would preview all of them first[16:28:50] <jprajzne1> weed is bad long term, as any other substance that you abuse[16:28:59] <pulse> pretty much[16:29:20] <pulse> i smoked for about 10 years every day[16:29:25] <brainzap> I discovered aspirin[16:29:39] <pulse> 16 years non-every day[16:29:44] <Atari2600> ew[16:29:47] <Atari2600> your lungs must be shit[16:29:53] <Atari2600> I hope you can recover[16:29:59] <pulse> probably better than if i smoked cigs for 16 years[16:30:04] <pulse> i hope anyway[16:30:13] <Atari2600> my cousin was doing like you. he started to cough like crazy. he got scared and stopped smoking at once[16:30:13] <pulse> i don't have any chronic cough or anything like that[16:30:16] <brainzap> how is the sleep REM rebound effect?[16:30:16] <pulse> so that's good i guess[16:30:24] <Atari2600> he was really bad during the first year[16:30:27] <Atari2600> but he recovered :)[16:30:30] <Atari2600> god bless him[16:30:30] <pulse> Atari2600, nice[16:30:36] <Atari2600> (he also used to do some blow)[16:30:46] <pulse> yeah i stayed away from all drugs except psychedelics[16:30:56] <pulse> which i tried a few times[16:31:01] <Atari2600> if you talk about paranoia, I am a little paranoid with drugs and even weed and cigars[16:31:11] <Atari2600> I've lost many friends to these fucky things already[16:31:20] <pulse> i've lost a few friends to heroin :/[16:31:36] <pulse> years ago[16:31:44] <Atari2600> heroin, blow, cigars and even weed. they all took a toll in my social life[16:32:16] <Atari2600> I even lost a family member to the drugs (aids, but the heroin and amphetamine caused it)[16:32:26] <pulse> damn[16:32:33] <jprajzne1> heroin and nicotin are very similar, aren't they?[16:32:35] <pulse> sorry to hear[16:32:37] <Atari2600> I sometimes smoke weed[16:32:41] <pulse> jprajzne1, no, they're really not[16:32:44] <Atari2600> but it has been a looooong while[16:32:48] <pulse> at least as far as the high goes[16:32:49] <Atari2600> and it makes me super dumb[16:32:58] <pulse> i never tried it but i've seen enough people on it to have a clear picture of what it does to you[16:33:05] <Atari2600> so I don't do it and I pity my friends who smoke it every day[16:33:08] <Atari2600> they are dumb :([16:33:21] <pulse> well, i was severely addicted to weed[16:33:29] <pulse> i'm still in high-risk times so[16:33:31] <pulse> i better shut up[16:33:32] <jprajzne1> pulse: i had the impression they're based on the same cycle and have strong addiction effect[16:33:37] <Atari2600> it can be good as a recreational drug. like doing it during a weeding (pun hurr) or a xmas / new years eve[16:33:44] <pulse> jprajzne1, yeah but the risk factor is hugely disproportional[16:33:56] <pulse> people smoke cigarettes for years without any noticable ill effects[16:33:56] <Atari2600> same as alcohol. with moderation it can be harmless[16:34:03] <pulse> alcohol imo is worse than most drugs[16:34:12] <pulse> heroin and opiates are ok in moderation too[16:34:18] <Atari2600> cigarettes are different. you can't do it occasionally. it is too addicting[16:34:19] <pulse> contrary to cultural belief patterns[16:34:24] <Atari2600> codeine <3[16:34:28] <pulse> yeah they are addictive as hell[16:34:35] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[16:34:43] <Atari2600> codeine is delicious, but fucking addicting and it can make you crazy[16:34:55] <brainzap> the down side is life gets a bit boring if you do everything in moderation. Of course you life longer and age slower[16:35:17] <Atari2600> I think my best moment with drugs was after my nose and throat surgery. they fixed my septum and ripped off my tonsils in the same take[16:35:28] <Atari2600> so I was hurting a lot and they had to inject me morphine... :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD[16:35:31] <Atari2600> OUUUUUUUCH YEAH[16:35:36] <jprajzne1> pulse: well, idk how it'd be with pharmaceutical heroine[16:35:52] <Atari2600> I even asked to stay one more day in the hospital bed[16:35:55] <pulse> jprajzne1, it really depends on the person in general. some people live a highly functioning life while being heroin addicts[16:35:55] <Atari2600> just to get more morphine[16:36:00] <pulse> or any other drug really[16:36:05] <pulse> i just dislike most drugs in general[16:36:13] <Atari2600> I am against all of them[16:36:17] <jprajzne1> i think pharma heroin is probably the #1 reason we still have rolling stones :))[16:36:20] <Atari2600> because I know I can get addicted very easily[16:36:23] <pulse> i like psychedelics but they scared the fuck out of me so there's that[16:36:28] <Atari2600> and I lost significant people to them[16:36:31] <Atari2600> fuck fuck fuck[16:36:33] <Atari2600> I want safe drugs[16:36:37] <Atari2600> that is why I play games[16:36:50] <brainzap> are games safe?[16:36:55] <pulse> nah, they're addictive too[16:36:56] <Atari2600> not exactly[16:37:00] <Atari2600> HoMM III[16:37:05] <Atari2600> made me to not sleep for 2 days[16:37:07] <Atari2600> that also kills[16:37:11] <brainzap> wtf dude[16:37:20] <pulse> you have wow addict clinics. nuff said[16:37:34] <pulse> it's in the personality though[16:37:36] <Atari2600> I am under control now 8)[16:37:44] <Atari2600> but I know more people like me[16:37:48] *** noglin <noglin!~julien@net-93-67-12-40.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined #gamedev[16:37:49] <Atari2600> and it is very easy to fall apart[16:37:56] <brainzap> its the parents fault for letting the kids play fortnite[16:38:01] <pulse> if you use anything to escape from reality you're bound to get addicted to it[16:38:01] <Atari2600> yup[16:38:04] <jprajzne1> Atari2600: bad news, games aren't healthy :))[16:38:13] <jprajzne1> any kind of addiction isn't healthy[16:38:18] <Atari2600> well, I make them be more healthy with limits and diversity[16:38:20] <jprajzne1> even love addiction[16:38:34] <Atari2600> I use alarms to go to bed, I switch games very fast and I try to code them[16:38:34] <jprajzne1> check out gabor mate[16:38:48] <Atari2600> coding them is a nice way to have fun and also get tired of them[16:39:09] <Atari2600> plus a wife who is not very fond of games, so she rips me out of the computer :D[16:39:11] <jprajzne1> and check out how many relationships crashed bc of games addiction[16:39:36] <pulse> i think the worst possible drug is xanax[16:39:36] <brainzap> I did reduce my gaming last year too, now I am just waiting for the good stuff to come out[16:39:42] <Atari2600> what is xanax?[16:39:47] <Atari2600> (the real name)[16:39:51] <pulse> youtube xanax withdrawals... if you have the stomach for it[16:39:56] <pulse> and that shit's legal and prescribed every day[16:40:00] <pulse> horrible fuck shit[16:40:10] <pulse> Atari2600, benzodiazepine[16:40:12] <Atari2600> Benzodiazepine[16:40:14] <Atari2600> yeah[16:40:18] <Atari2600> that killed my uncle :([16:40:18] <pulse> the worst possible drug to take[16:40:25] <pulse> the withdrawals last for a year[16:40:31] <pulse> the longest of any drug as far as i know[16:40:48] <pulse> the 2nd worst i'd say is straight up alcohol[16:40:58] <pulse> one of the only two drugs where withdrawals can kill you[16:40:58] <Atari2600> and lotsa friends I know (more like acquaintances) use it regularly[16:41:08] <pulse> there's a few others but most drugs won't kill you on withdrawal[16:41:18] <pulse> benzos and alcohol will though[16:41:29] <Atari2600> the (doctor) mom of a very close friend got ill because of that crap too. and she died young[16:41:47] <pulse> :([16:41:51] <Atari2600> I hosted him in my house for a couple years until he recovered and finished his college degree. he is also a doctor now[16:42:11] <brainzap> 3 place is BR games[16:42:20] <Atari2600> it was very eerie. I only knew her by the phone calls he usually did from my home while she was already sick[16:42:55] <Atari2600> hue BR?[16:43:15] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjrTOjxjxk[16:43:22] <Atari2600> my current drugs are coffee and alcohol[16:43:29] <pulse> i quit coffee too[16:43:29] <Atari2600> I love wine and beer[16:43:40] <pulse> too many mood swings[16:43:42] <pulse> for my taste[16:43:43] <brainzap> alcohol is poison even in moderation[16:43:45] <Atari2600> I got back to coffee because of my new workplace. best imported coffee ever[16:43:59] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)[16:44:00] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined #gamedev[16:44:01] <Atari2600> coffee makes me anxious[16:44:11] <pulse> it has a bad crash[16:44:15] <pulse> and the high isn't all that great either[16:44:17] <jprajzne1> Atari2600, brainzap, pulse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpHiFqXCYKc[16:44:19] <Atari2600> sometimes it gets me through annoying tasks very easy[16:44:21] <pulse> just gives me anxiety for the most part[16:44:30] <pulse> Atari2600, yeah it can be useful[16:44:31] <Atari2600> sometimes I keep suffering of NADD[16:44:34] <brainzap> just switch to decaff coffee[16:44:38] <pulse> i actually feel black tea now since i quit coffee[16:44:39] <Atari2600> decaf is crap[16:44:46] <Atari2600> black tea is full of caffeine too[16:44:58] <pulse> not as much as coffee i'm sure[16:45:02] <brainzap> I now drink home made chai latte[16:45:06] <pulse> when i used to drink coffee i couldn't even get a mild buzz from black tea[16:45:12] <pulse> even if i drank like 3 cups one after another[16:45:17] <pulse> whereas from coffee i would feel it immediately[16:45:25] <pulse> but now i actually feel a slight buzz from black tea[16:45:32] <pulse> guess my tolerance is way down[16:45:48] <pulse> could be the weed interfering too though[16:45:49] <pulse> idk[16:45:51] <pulse> hard to tell[16:46:05] <brainzap> if you are on a health trip, try removing sugar from the next 6 months[16:46:07] <pulse> coffee and a joint was my ritual before work almost every time[16:46:14] <pulse> brainzap, yeah i'm planning to[16:46:17] <pulse> i've already cut it down like 80%[16:46:24] <jprajzne1> removing sugar is not a good idea :)[16:46:24] <Atari2600> what does "removing sugar" mean?[16:46:29] <Atari2600> everyone has a different opinion about it[16:46:33] <jprajzne1> just cut it down, but do not remove[16:46:35] <pulse> my dentist told me how sugar is the worst thing ever, since then i kinda look down on it[16:46:39] <Atari2600> cut it down is also vague[16:46:54] <brainzap> no soda, no orange juice, no snacks, veggis are ok, when you are shopping dont buy snacks or chocolate[16:47:01] <Atari2600> can I eat oranges?[16:47:07] <pulse> Atari2600, natural sugars are ok in my book[16:47:11] <jprajzne1> Atari2600: better than complete withdrawal[16:47:17] <Atari2600> orange juice is natural too[16:47:18] <pulse> i'll never give up fruit[16:47:23] <pulse> Atari2600, not processed[16:47:26] <Atari2600> at least the one I drink[16:47:34] <brainzap> yeah veggis and greens are ok. orange juice is weird and not really healthy[16:47:38] <pulse> try squeezing your own orange juice and then try the run of the mill orange juice from supermarket[16:47:40] <pulse> it's like night and day[16:48:08] <Atari2600> the breakfast here has lots of natural juices: grapefruit, orange, watermelon...[16:48:15] <jprajzne1> it's bc they add glucose to the juice[16:48:19] <Atari2600> I usually go with grapefruit or orange[16:48:20] <pulse> some sugar is ok, the problem is our culture is completely whizzed up on sugar[16:48:30] <pulse> i actually find chocolate way too sugary now[16:48:32] <jprajzne1> sugar and alcohol :)[16:48:36] <pulse> like unbearable sugary level[16:48:38] <jprajzne1> and weed, increasingly[16:48:49] <Atari2600> I am eating 70% cocoa chocolate[16:50:30] <brainzap> In my kitchen I laid out lots of greens and did not buy sugar food. So I dont have any choice, even when my brain cries: "Sugar Sugar Sugar", I can only eat a banana[16:51:19] *** rottz <rottz!~rottz@177.181.18.204> has joined #gamedev[16:51:22] <jprajzne1> brainzap: great, it's really about what you buy[16:51:29] <jprajzne1> then it's easier at home :)[16:51:37] *** rottz <rottz!~rottz@177.181.18.204> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[16:52:32] <brainzap> hmm could make a game, that when you achieve something a cookie robot allows you to eat a cookie. Like a dogfeeder[16:52:55] <brainzap> nintendo fit connected to a safe that dispatches single cookies?[16:53:10] <jprajzne1> i. p. pavlov would love that game :))[16:53:23] <brainzap> ready player one had something like this in the book[16:53:39] <jprajzne1> brainzap: true, great novel :)[16:53:54] <jprajzne1> make sure it also measures sugar level :)[16:55:19] <brainzap> some people are even addicted to virtual rewards[16:56:50] <jprajzne1> our brain is stupid, it's just few hormones/neurochemicals and we can get addicted to whatever :))[16:56:59] <Atari2600> cookie clicker :D[16:58:15] <jprajzne1> it's why twitch mechanics work so well in games :)[16:58:30] <brainzap> what twitch mechanics?[16:58:31] <jprajzne1> or the 'reward buttons' on social networks[16:58:47] <jprajzne1> or hugs/touches in real life[16:58:49] <jprajzne1> etc.[17:06:37] *** stefkos <stefkos!~Pawel@79.184.42.118.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[17:08:24] <DaScoot> quick, someone invent something that gives you a hug when you beat a level[17:09:02] <jprajzne1> DaScoot: like haptic suit?[17:09:32] <jprajzne1> it'd just contract a bit and warmed up[17:09:46] <jprajzne1> chest, over the shoulders and on the back[17:09:59] <brainzap> nothing replaces a human hug[17:10:03] <jprajzne1> 3-5 seconds, should do the trick? :)[17:10:11] <jprajzne1> brainzap: prove it :))[17:10:18] <jprajzne1> brain is stupid[17:10:44] <brainzap> you have to beat the leval first[17:10:51] <jprajzne1> shure[17:11:03] <Atari2600> my ass levals[17:11:13] <jprajzne1> leval my ass[17:14:17] *** jprajzne1 <jprajzne1!jprajzne@nat/redhat/x-ccfzjlthewdbqgya> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[17:26:42] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has joined #gamedev[17:37:32] *** sedeki <sedeki!~textual@unaffiliated/sedeki> has joined #gamedev[17:37:38] *** quipa <quipa!~Maxim@a79-168-78-23.cpe.netcabo.pt> has joined #gamedev[17:40:06] *** Oddity <Oddity!~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:43:08] *** notus <notus!uid244649@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tybhhoufownpjhye> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[17:45:43] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6L78lXPHro[17:46:28] <pulse> jazz > sonic[17:46:40] <Atari2600> this game is fancy, but I also did not like it much[17:46:45] <Atari2600> sonic sucks balls[17:46:56] <Atari2600> I never understood why sonic got so famous[17:46:57] <Atari2600> it is unplayable[17:47:04] <Atari2600> mario >>>>>>>>>> sonic[17:47:06] <pulse> same here[17:47:14] <pulse> i liked jazz tho[17:47:23] <Atari2600> people really love music and graphics. these are the strongest points of sonic[17:47:39] <pulse> something something green bugs bunny with pistol[17:47:45] <Atari2600> jazz I played a couple times. good graphics, sound and it was playable[17:47:48] <Atari2600> but I got bored[17:47:49] <Atari2600> lol[17:48:10] <Atari2600> I don't remember the reasons. if it were too easy or if I had better games to play at that moment[17:48:26] <Atari2600> it was hard to compete with alone in the dark and dark seed and dark sun :D[17:49:11] <Atari2600> ahhh the golden age of pc games[17:49:39] <Atari2600> I will never see again adventures like Indiana Jones in the Last Crusade and Gabriel Knight I[17:49:45] <Atari2600> these were the best adventures I've played ever[17:50:23] *** Oddity <Oddity!~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity> has joined #gamedev[17:51:01] <pulse> monkey island 1 for me[17:51:30] <pulse> good luck in the modern day of go go lifestyle to ever see a masterpiece like that again[17:51:39] <pulse> everything has to be dumbed down after all[17:51:54] <Atari2600> I gave a lot of love to monkey island 1 and 2 for sure[17:52:01] <pulse> 2 was good too yeah[17:52:08] <pulse> i love the music in 2[17:52:10] <Atari2600> 3 and 4... NAH[17:52:17] <pulse> and the dynamic transitions[17:52:23] <pulse> yeah, i didn't like the secret of monkey island[17:52:28] <Atari2600> 1 was fun, but too easy. 2 was incredibly hard[17:52:30] <pulse> the moment it came out i was like, ok they ruined it, lol[17:52:37] <pulse> i don't think i finished 2, lol[17:52:40] *** sedeki <sedeki!~textual@unaffiliated/sedeki> has left #gamedev ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")[17:52:45] <pulse> the dig was intereting too[17:52:46] <Atari2600> I finished 2, but it was fucking hard[17:52:49] <pulse> a bit dull maybe[17:52:49] <Atari2600> the dig was also hardcore[17:52:53] <pulse> but very inspiring[17:52:56] <Atari2600> I didn't finish it[17:53:00] <pulse> i didn't either[17:53:03] <Atari2600> I should play it again[17:53:10] <Atari2600> the dig and full throttle[17:53:14] <pulse> it works nice on the phone :p[17:53:28] <pulse> touch screen kinda lends itself to oldschool adventures[17:53:34] <pulse> i still have to play through indiana jones[17:53:35] <Atari2600> hmmm I am kinda biased against playing in the phone. the screen is too small[17:53:39] <pulse> yeah[17:53:45] <pulse> tablet may be more appropriate actually[17:53:59] <Atari2600> games like Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney are cool to play in the phone, though[17:54:14] <pulse> don't know that one[17:54:25] <Atari2600> you should definitely try it[17:54:29] <pulse> looks like anime[17:54:30] <Atari2600> it is a visual novel series[17:54:32] <pulse> i have a thing against anime[17:54:34] <Atari2600> but it is really good[17:54:35] <Atari2600> honest[17:54:39] <pulse> hmm[17:54:40] <Atari2600> they did an amazing job with this series[17:54:58] <pulse> since it's capcom[17:55:01] <pulse> i believe you[17:55:04] <Atari2600> I played a lot of visual novels in MSX and in the 90s in PC. I was really sick of them[17:55:12] <Atari2600> but this one brought the style back[17:55:21] <Atari2600> the history is fun and well elaborated[17:55:23] <Atari2600> OBJECTION!!![17:56:01] <Atari2600> the game play is not original (older games already used the courtroom lawyer evidence things), but it is challenging[17:56:23] <Atari2600> play the nintendo ds version[17:56:29] *** cheakoirccloud <cheakoirccloud!uid293319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tdelqmichwlzabez> has joined #gamedev[17:56:35] <Atari2600> not the game boy advance (unless your japanese is good)[17:57:35] *** OtakuSen1ai <OtakuSen1ai!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[17:57:38] <Atari2600> Gyakuten Saiban = original game in the GBA --> https://baudejogos.net/jogo.php?id=11957[17:58:08] *** OtakuSen1ai is now known as dx_ob[17:58:09] <Atari2600> Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney = Nintendo DS remake, which was pretty good and decently translated to english --> https://baudejogos.net/jogo.php?id=11955[17:58:30] <Atari2600> they've ported this version to the iPhone. that was how I got in touch with this game[17:58:45] <Atari2600> then I snagged a Nintendo DS and bought all three games of the series :)[17:59:01] <pulse> my japanese is about as good as my klingon[17:59:17] <Atari2600> and yeah! Capcom is pretty reliable. I don't recall getting disappointed by them. ever[17:59:26] <Atari2600> I think I like all their games[17:59:51] <pulse> speaking about capcom[17:59:56] <Atari2600> I was a big fan of Konami too, because of MSX, but they had some flops even at that time and their newest games aren't that good anymore[17:59:57] <pulse> re2 remake is coming out jan 25[18:00:02] <Atari2600> re2?[18:00:07] <pulse> resident evil 2[18:00:24] <pulse> one of the best survival horror games ever produced on this planet[18:00:24] <Atari2600> ahhhhh[18:00:28] <Atari2600> yeah! I like it too[18:00:33] <pulse> re1 remake was off the charts[18:00:35] <Atari2600> (but Alone in the Dark is still better)[18:00:36] <pulse> i have great expectations for re2[18:00:38] <pulse> nah[18:00:39] <pulse> :D[18:00:42] <pulse> it paved the way, sure[18:00:43] <Atari2600> at that time? it was[18:01:01] <Atari2600> capcom threw more money, so the re series got better (re4 and re5 are damn good)[18:01:02] <pulse> i actually gotta play through alone in the dark once[18:01:08] <pulse> nah[18:01:14] <pulse> i stopped giving a crap about re after 3[18:01:19] <pulse> 1 & 2 are masterpieces[18:01:19] <Atari2600> re3 is meh[18:01:21] <pulse> 3 is cookie cutter[18:01:24] <pulse> the rest i don't care for[18:01:31] <brainzap> but sir its good game[18:01:34] <Atari2600> I like 1 and 2, but I still prefer alone in the dark. dunno why[18:01:58] <Atari2600> re1 and re2 were better produced than alone in the dark for sure[18:02:16] <Atari2600> but for some weird reason, alone in dark scared the shit out of me and their puzzles were harder[18:02:29] <pulse> re1 gave me nightmares for months as a kid[18:02:29] <Atari2600> re1 and re2 were just easy to play. kill zombies, explore, get items, run, win[18:02:49] <Atari2600> I never have heard of HP Lovecraft before[18:02:55] <Atari2600> then I played Alone in the Dark[18:02:56] <Atari2600> ARGH[18:02:59] <pulse> hmm[18:03:13] <Atari2600> then I watched Dagon :D[18:03:39] <pulse> i remember the intro to alone in the dark still[18:03:51] <Atari2600> hey! let's walk in the house[18:03:54] <Atari2600> everything is fine[18:03:57] <pulse> maybe i should play through it[18:03:59] <Atari2600> the sun is bright![18:04:00] <Atari2600> la la la[18:04:32] <pulse> don't read lovecraft at night, all i'm gonna say[18:04:33] <pulse> :S[18:04:33] <Atari2600> (but we need a body, mwhahahaha!)[18:04:49] <Atari2600> cosmic horrors will always be scary[18:05:06] <Atari2600> they don't fit the usual models of horror stories[18:05:12] <Atari2600> and they seem unstoppable[18:05:13] <pulse> that's what makes them so terrifying[18:05:17] <Atari2600> ewewew[18:05:31] <Atari2600> too bad Shadow of the Comet sucked balls[18:05:37] <Atari2600> the other hp lovecraft game I reckon[18:06:34] <pulse> i wonder what it'd take to make a game like alone in the dark[18:06:47] <pulse> graphically it seems kinda simple[18:07:20] <Atari2600> it requires awesome game design and good writing[18:07:26] <pulse> yeah[18:07:30] <Atari2600> the engine is simple nowadays[18:07:45] <Atari2600> I have a pessimistic view about today's gamedev[18:07:55] <Atari2600> I no longer see good writers and designers around[18:07:59] <Atari2600> and that gets worse with indie games[18:08:06] <pulse> they've been acquired by activision[18:08:13] <pulse> and are now in the process of producing loot box #124871[18:08:27] <Atari2600> nowadays... it is all about GRAPHICS and MULTIPLAYER and DLCs...[18:08:37] <pulse> i think it's because of the internet[18:08:40] <Atari2600> click the button to win[18:08:45] <Atari2600> buy this item to win MOAR[18:08:48] <pulse> no one's willing to just go and take a year off from everything[18:08:52] <pulse> and just produce something great[18:08:55] <Atari2600> :-/[18:08:58] <pulse> it's always about what will the ratings be[18:09:01] <pulse> what will the players feel like[18:09:04] <pulse> how it will sell[18:09:07] <pulse> no one gives a crap about games anymore[18:09:12] <Atari2600> ign and gamespot should disappear[18:09:16] <pulse> we should completely ignore players[18:09:18] *** webby__ <webby__!~webby__@ec2-13-211-20-205.ap-southeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com> has quit IRC (Quit: %Gone!%)[18:09:19] <pulse> because fuck players[18:09:20] <Atari2600> like thanos and his gauntlet[18:09:23] <pulse> if they don't like a game, fine[18:09:27] <pulse> go play cod #137[18:09:34] <Atari2600> or fifa[18:09:39] <Atari2600> :D[18:09:48] <pulse> i don't get sports games[18:09:57] <pulse> they're always the same[18:09:59] <Atari2600> I always hated them, unless they were trolling[18:10:05] <Atari2600> like actua soccer or wacky wheels[18:10:06] <pulse> idk, i guess you have to be a sports fan to get them[18:10:16] <pulse> i like that old basketball game for dos[18:10:20] <pulse> that was about it[18:10:30] <Atari2600> you play one, you played them all\[18:11:14] <pulse> fuck yeah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzWq8LiD0Tk[18:11:14] <pulse> this one[18:11:21] <pulse> that's the only sports game i like[18:11:26] <pulse> apart from racing games[18:11:36] <pulse> that menu brings back memories[18:11:37] <pulse> lol[18:12:00] <pulse> i think you could play multiplayer on a single keyboard[18:12:03] <pulse> pretty sure yeah[18:12:39] <pulse> i didn't even like ski jump[18:12:41] *** webby__ <webby__!~webby__@ec2-13-211-20-205.ap-southeast-2.compute.amazonaws.com> has joined #gamedev[18:12:42] <pulse> that's how un-sporty i am[18:12:49] <pulse> and everyone loved that game[18:12:54] <pulse> i never got what the hell the appeal was of it[18:13:10] <pulse> controls were clunky and excitement levels were non existent[18:13:17] <pulse> but for some reason people got ultra hyped about it[18:13:20] * pulse shrugs[18:14:14] <pulse> what happened to games is pretty much what happened to music ... it became a business[18:14:22] <pulse> so now most music just flat out sucks[18:14:28] <pulse> no soul in it whatsoever[18:14:29] <pulse> no realness[18:14:35] <pulse> just the same old every day[18:14:41] <pulse> problem is 99% of people are content with that[18:14:47] * pulse shrugs[18:14:49] <pulse> maybe i should move to mars[18:26:17] <aeth> DaScoot: You can actually buy a calendar that works for multiple years, I saw one once that was made for Back to the Future in the 80s. Basically, each month is actually a page with a calendar for every possible arrangement of that month, and it labels which years that that given month is valid for.[18:26:34] <aeth> It wouldn't be useful for holidays that rely on another calendar, though.[18:27:57] *** Tiyanki <Tiyanki!~Nick@static-213-100-165-116.cust.tele2.lv> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[18:27:59] <aeth> naively, there's only 7 except for February (some might be impossible to reach, though, so idk exact details)[18:28:25] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:19d5:cdff:879e:8211> has joined #gamedev[18:28:49] *** Tiyanki <Tiyanki!~Nick@static-213-100-165-116.cust.tele2.lv> has joined #gamedev[18:29:10] <aeth> Although the calendar might have just been a whole-year calendar instead of month-by-month, it has been a while since I ran into it.[18:31:58] <aeth> I think there are only 14 possible years: each of 7 start dates with and without February 29th. Then you just label each calendar by which years it's valid for. And, again, besides holidays that rely on another calendar you can just recycle previous calendars that are in a matching year.[18:32:12] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[18:35:24] <aeth> pulse: Calc III won't really help you too much in gamedev. What you want is numerical methods, but the vast majority of Calc I-III are symbolic solutions that will only help you if you're implementing a CAS. You very briefly touch on Euler's method in one of those classes iirc, but RK4 is better.[18:39:04] * R2robot opens Terminal and types 'cal 2019' There's the calendar! :D[18:39:30] <aeth> R2robot: No.[18:39:37] <R2robot> yep[18:39:50] <aeth> `cal -m 2019` is the calendar.[18:40:22] <aeth> "weekend at the end of the week" vs. "weekend at either end of the week" is basically the calendar tabs vs. spaces[18:40:39] <R2robot> cal -m 2019[18:40:41] <R2robot> cal: 2019 is neither a month number (1..12) nor a namey[18:40:49] <R2robot> :P[18:41:06] <aeth> R2robot: I'm guessing you use a BSD cal?[18:41:16] <R2robot> yes[18:41:25] <aeth> R2robot: try cal --monday 2019[18:41:35] <R2robot> no[18:41:51] *** macza <macza!~macza@67.231.29.194> has joined #gamedev[18:43:59] <aeth> Wow, looks like BSDs are objectively inferior to GNUs here. https://www.unix.com/man-page/freebsd/1/cal/[18:44:35] <R2robot> why does google play insist on putting my full name in the subject lines for every email?[18:45:14] <aeth> R2robot: If you use Google, what happens when it tries to make you check "I am not a robot"?[18:45:33] <R2robot> existential crisis[18:45:36] <R2robot> ever.damn.time[18:45:41] <R2robot> every*[18:46:11] <aeth> R2robot: I believe you mean Time.damn.every()[18:46:31] <R2robot> eww, no[18:48:07] <R2robot> but no, really.. it looks so spammy to include my name in the subject line.[18:53:30] <mobile_c_> why does this work if i set the Global Time Dilation to 0.001 https://imgur.com/a/cCi6vcH[18:56:08] *** Serpent7776 <Serpent7776!~Serpent77@90-156-31-193.internetia.net.pl> has joined #gamedev[18:56:56] <warweasle> I need to get faster at modeling things.[18:58:02] <R2robot> don't think, just click and drag[18:59:44] <Atari2600> pulse, sorry. I had to poo and get lunch afterwards with the buddies here. I also enjoyed lakers vs celtics a lot[19:01:23] <mobile_c_> why does this happen?[19:01:24] <mobile_c_> spawning 100 objects per second, if the gameplay speed is 0.001 it spawns them all but if the gameplay speed is 1 it spawns signifigantly less[19:04:36] <Atari2600> ?[19:04:52] <R2robot> did you not like the repsonse ##programming gave you? :P[19:05:06] <Atari2600> mobile_c_ usually comes here asking nonsensical questions[19:05:56] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has joined #gamedev[19:09:00] <mobile_c_> https://imgur.com/a/eOE47qe this is my event graph[19:09:24] <Atari2600> yay! an unreadable event graph \o/[19:09:36] <mobile_c_> lol[19:10:07] <Atari2600> give up all this nonsense and play this instead --> https://emulatoronline.com/gb-games/marios-picross/[19:12:12] *** xen74 <xen74!~xen74@2001:44b8:2e3:9b00:d16:83ec:2b2b:e25f> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:14:14] <mobile_c_> https://imgur.com/a/Iv1BnOa is that better[19:14:54] <Atari2600> you just went full retard[19:14:58] <Atari2600> never go full retard[19:16:08] <mobile_c_> https://imgur.com/lJnLR3F what about this[19:17:19] <Atari2600> it still sucks, but at least I can read the text with a magnifying glass[19:19:38] *** o][o <o][o!~sjw@pool-98-113-87-89.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:20:06] <Donitzo> naming animations[19:20:20] <Donitzo> Walk/Stand/Shoot vs Walking/Standing/Shooting[19:21:12] <Atari2600> does not matter[19:21:14] *** TzilTzal <TzilTzal!~Yaron@101.127.74.219> has joined #gamedev[19:21:19] <Donitzo> it always matters[19:21:24] <Atari2600> just be consistent :>[19:21:29] <LastTalon> Stupid avast deleted fish.[19:21:32] <LastTalon> D:<[19:22:24] <Donitzo> I only trust F-secure[19:22:31] <Donitzo> since they have to follow finnish law[19:24:15] <Atari2600> avast? what is that? :D[19:24:35] <LastTalon> Its what I use on windows to prevent stupid things from running. :D[19:24:47] <Atari2600> I don't recall the last time I used avast[19:24:50] <Atari2600> honestly[19:25:01] <LastTalon> Its antivirus software.[19:25:09] <Atari2600> slowware[19:25:16] <Atari2600> crapware[19:25:39] <Atari2600> but I am the single user of my machine, so it seems I can afford of not using crapvast :)[19:26:14] <Atari2600> my wife uses avast in her notebook. she loves to click dumb things[19:27:45] <LastTalon> I've been thinking about getting rid of it...[19:27:55] <LastTalon> All it ever ends up doing is stopping things I actually intend to use.[19:27:57] <LastTalon> Like fish...[19:28:06] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[19:28:31] <LastTalon> Cuz avast doesn't understand what a shell is.[19:30:18] *** dx_ob <dx_ob!~OtakuSenp@unaffiliated/neel> has joined #gamedev[19:30:32] <LastTalon> I don't know what avast did to fish and it can't reinstall.[19:34:28] <Atari2600> now that is a real question... what is fish?[19:34:35] <LastTalon> Its a shell[19:35:03] <Atari2600> like powershell?[19:35:13] <LastTalon> Sure.[19:35:15] <Atari2600> my preferred shell is that one which comes with msys[19:35:31] <Atari2600> there is also a shell for git for windows[19:35:40] <Atari2600> also based on msys, I think[19:35:40] <LastTalon> There's also fish.[19:35:44] <Atari2600> I like gnu[19:37:37] <LastTalon> The problem is entirely with avast.[19:37:44] <LastTalon> Fish exists, but nothing can access it.[19:39:37] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[19:42:31] *** mobile_c <mobile_c!~mgood@2405:7f00:8805:8400:e55c:a90d:1cf2:979> has joined #gamedev[19:44:55] *** mobile_c_ <mobile_c_!~mgood@2405:7f00:8805:8400:e55c:a90d:1cf2:979> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:50:03] <LastTalon> IT REMOVED BASH[19:50:42] <Atari2600> bash virus!!![19:54:00] * Atari2600 missed mcafee[19:54:14] <Atari2600> it was good, before he became a maniac[19:58:30] *** Codrrr <Codrrr!~DinoJS@41.111.15.215> has joined #gamedev[20:00:30] <LastTalon> I fixed it.[20:00:41] <LastTalon> Reinstalled everything in cygwin just to be safe.[20:00:45] <Atari2600> ew[20:01:19] <LastTalon> Can't really do anything else if avast is going to delete things without saying anything.[20:01:38] <Atari2600> stop using it :D[20:02:02] <LastTalon> Considering it.[20:04:29] *** quipa <quipa!~Maxim@a79-168-78-23.cpe.netcabo.pt> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:05:30] *** quipa <quipa!~Maxim@a79-168-78-23.cpe.netcabo.pt> has joined #gamedev[20:05:54] *** maxvi <maxvi!~maxvi@78.26.151.216> has joined #gamedev[20:06:33] *** cheakoirccloud <cheakoirccloud!uid293319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tdelqmichwlzabez> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[20:07:43] *** notus <notus!uid244649@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xaluehaioqtsxkdj> has joined #gamedev[20:08:16] *** maxvi <maxvi!~maxvi@78.26.151.216> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[20:10:24] *** quipa <quipa!~Maxim@a79-168-78-23.cpe.netcabo.pt> has quit IRC (Excess Flood)[20:11:59] *** quipa <quipa!~Maxim@a79-168-78-23.cpe.netcabo.pt> has joined #gamedev[20:12:14] <R2robot> Atari2600: are you working on a game at the moment? or just the engine?[20:12:55] *** quipa <quipa!~Maxim@a79-168-78-23.cpe.netcabo.pt> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[20:13:25] <Atari2600> I am improving the engine and working on a game to test it[20:13:52] <Atari2600> the engine is 99% done. the hardest part is to split what should be in the engine and what should be in the game[20:13:59] <Atari2600> and I also want to reuse some parts of the game[20:14:45] <Atari2600> plus there is an exercise with LUA bindings, in order to be able to configure / script the game in an easier way[20:15:14] <R2robot> O_o[20:15:48] <R2robot> what's the game?[20:15:49] <LastTalon> It really bothers me when people use all caps for Lua.[20:15:52] <LastTalon> >.>[20:16:00] <Atari2600> I send the video some days ago[20:16:02] <Atari2600> *sent[20:16:06] <R2robot> LastTalon: who does that?[20:16:19] <LastTalon> R2robot, Atari2600 apparently.[20:16:23] <Atari2600> it is a Berzerk/Frenzy/The Binding of Isaac clone[20:16:35] <R2robot> i mean, *I* do that for some constants :D[20:16:52] <R2robot> oh, lol[20:16:58] <Atari2600> it is fucking simple and powerful[20:17:13] <LastTalon> I love Lua. Why the all caps though? Lol[20:17:14] <Atari2600> and CLion has a good plugin for it :D[20:17:27] <LastTalon> Hang on, let me use PYTHON[20:17:37] <Atari2600> LUA is superior[20:17:43] <Atari2600> it is small, it is fast[20:17:54] <LastTalon> He's missing the whole point. Lol[20:18:00] <R2robot> I'm using CoronaSDK and Defold, both use Lua for their scripting language. It's kinda neat most times.[20:18:07] *** RazielZ <RazielZ!~Raziel@unaffiliated/raziel> has joined #gamedev[20:18:08] <R2robot> yeah. lol[20:18:36] <R2robot> and he's brazillion[20:18:40] <R2robot> i think[20:18:41] <Atari2600> hue brbrbrbr[20:18:44] <R2robot> brazillian[20:18:46] <LastTalon> Soon I hope to learn RUST and SCALA[20:18:47] <Atari2600> we created LUA[20:18:51] <Atari2600> we can use ALL CAPS[20:19:01] <Atari2600> e temos piroca grande!!![20:19:05] <R2robot> BUt it's an actual portugoose word[20:19:16] <Atari2600> yeah. lua == moon[20:19:22] <R2robot> MOON[20:19:22] <LastTalon> So why all caps it?[20:19:29] <LastTalon> MOONSCRIPT[20:20:14] *** warweasle <warweasle!user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe26:d1db> has quit IRC (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1)[20:21:09] <R2robot> https://www.lua.org/images/luaa.gif[20:21:14] <R2robot> /thread[20:21:45] <LastTalon> They specifically state that it should not be typed in all caps actually.[20:21:52] <Atari2600> where?[20:21:56] <LastTalon> I think its in their faq or something.[20:22:12] <Atari2600> lol, you don't know[20:22:15] <R2robot> well their official logo has Lua[20:22:17] <Atari2600> so specific[20:22:54] <R2robot> Also, the portugoose language is an abomination and should not even exist[20:22:58] <LastTalon> Its commonly known that Lua prefers to be capitalized as "Lua" anyway. For what purpose would you put it in all caps?[20:23:27] <Atari2600> R2robot, interesting. can you tell me why you don't like Portuguese? :D[20:23:43] <LastTalon> Atari2600, he already told you. Its cuz its an abomination. :D[20:24:05] *** Codrrr <Codrrr!~DinoJS@41.111.15.215> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[20:24:10] <LastTalon> Atari2600, on this page https://www.lua.org/about.html[20:24:47] *** Codrrr <Codrrr!~DinoJS@41.111.15.215> has joined #gamedev[20:24:51] <R2robot> Atari2600: because it's like a few dudes went camping away from their spanish tribe and never came back and forgot how to speak and spell in spanish.. and when they were re-united with proper spanish speaking people they were like, ummm, wtf are you even saying?[20:24:56] <R2robot> it's like Ghetto spanish[20:25:16] *** Codrrr <Codrrr!~DinoJS@41.111.15.215> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:25:25] <LastTalon> R2robot, I mean...[20:25:25] <R2robot> Lua = Luna. BITCH JUST USE THE DAMN N[20:25:46] <LastTalon> Spanish is just like a few dudes went camping away from their latin tribe...[20:25:47] *** webJunior <webJunior!~DinoJS@41.111.15.215> has joined #gamedev[20:26:01] <R2robot> yup, but latin is dead[20:26:09] <LastTalon> So that's okay then?[20:26:12] <R2robot> yes[20:26:16] <LastTalon> Gotcha.[20:26:22] <R2robot> unless they want to complain in IRC about it. lol[20:26:31] <LastTalon> So english is like a few french and german dudes went camping away from their respective tribes...[20:26:32] <R2robot> can't.. 'cos dead[20:26:55] <R2robot> LastTalon: yes, all languages are decendent from others...[20:27:12] <R2robot> the point being, Portugoose is sooo close to Spinach that it's unnecessary. lol[20:28:05] <R2robot> Don't get me started on Tagalog either. lol[20:29:16] <Atari2600> R2robot, lol, you must be talking about Portugal's portuguese :)[20:29:27] <R2robot> mostly[20:29:28] <Atari2600> Brazilian Portuguese is beautiful[20:29:34] <LastTalon> Lies[20:29:35] <Atari2600> we got it right, with open singing tones[20:29:38] <R2robot> nah, it's a further abomination[20:29:42] <R2robot> lol[20:29:43] <Atari2600> we borrowed stuff from Italian[20:30:01] <Atari2600> we speak loudly and with songs :)[20:30:09] <LastTalon> No.[20:30:10] <Atari2600> we don't mess up with vowels[20:30:19] <Atari2600> what we write is what we read[20:30:30] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:30:34] <R2robot> 'we speak loudly' = obnoxious in any language[20:30:39] <LastTalon> ^[20:30:42] <Atari2600> the discrepancies between our alphabet and IPA are very few, unlike english[20:30:53] <LastTalon> That... doesn't matter.[20:31:11] <Atari2600> R2robot, brazilian portuguese allow us to be more poetic, we can express ourselves more and our books are more lovely[20:31:14] *** webJunior <webJunior!~DinoJS@41.111.15.215> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[20:31:18] <LastTalon> IPA is a set of symbols with the intention of assigning each distinct sound its own symbol.[20:31:26] <Atari2600> our theater plays are super fun[20:31:37] <R2robot> Atari2600: yes, I see your poetic-ness daily in your angry IRC rants. lol[20:31:46] <Atari2600> we can tell a lot of amazing jokes and fun puns[20:31:53] <R2robot> subjective[20:31:57] <LastTalon> So can any language.[20:32:04] <LastTalon> That's a part of language.[20:32:06] <Atari2600> most dumb americans don't get us[20:32:16] <Atari2600> murica usually knows only their little world :D[20:32:19] *** iLoVue <iLoVue!~DinoJS@41.111.15.215> has joined #gamedev[20:32:21] <R2robot> But can you present presents while not present?[20:32:30] <Atari2600> see? that sucks[20:32:33] <LastTalon> Because most americans don't speak the language...[20:32:43] <Atari2600> buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo[20:32:48] <R2robot> lol[20:32:50] <Atari2600> ^ retarded sentence[20:32:59] <LastTalon> Atari2600, you just don't understand it.[20:33:01] <LastTalon> :D[20:33:03] <R2robot> ^[20:33:06] <Atari2600> I do. but it is just fucktard[20:33:17] <R2robot> same for portugoose[20:33:31] <Atari2600> at least you finally incorporated saudad in your vocabulary :)[20:33:59] <LastTalon> ?[20:34:01] <R2robot> saudade[20:34:04] <Atari2600> ^[20:34:16] <Atari2600> english is ugly and old. you were just lucky that you've got a head start and the world embraced it[20:34:23] <LastTalon> Are you upset because some languages don't have certain words?[20:34:28] <LunarJetman> the next version of my IRC client will be OpenGL[20:34:38] <Atari2600> with 3D scripts?[20:34:45] <LunarJetman> yeah[20:34:47] <Atari2600> <3[20:34:53] <LastTalon> I'll tell you a secret. All languages lack words.[20:35:04] <Atari2600> yeah! and most languages suck too[20:35:08] <Atari2600> but brazilian portuguese rules :D[20:35:10] <R2robot> I like Japanese.. they just keep borrowing words[20:35:29] <Atari2600> I like that scene from Lost in Translation[20:35:31] <LastTalon> Tell me. Whats the portuguese word for the feeling of elation you get when stepping onto the surface of the moon for the first time?[20:35:38] <Atari2600> the guy keeps shouting a lot of words[20:35:43] <Atari2600> five minutes saying words[20:35:59] <Atari2600> the translator says to Bill Murray: "just move your hand to the left"[20:36:06] <Atari2600> lovely scene[20:36:25] <R2robot> lol[20:36:29] <R2robot> i don't remember that scene[20:36:39] <Atari2600> he is doing the whiskey advertising[20:36:57] <Atari2600> he is in the set. the lady who is organizing it talks to the manager[20:37:02] <Atari2600> and the manager keeps shouting at her[20:37:07] <Atari2600> a fuck ton of words[20:37:45] <Atari2600> then the lady comes back to Bill Murray and just says a short sentence (like she were translating all the billion japanese words into a simple english sentence)[20:37:55] <LastTalon> Its really interesting how people think the language they are most familiar with conveys the most poetry and meaning because they have the most comprehension in it.[20:38:04] <R2robot> the only scene I can even remember is scarlett johanson in panties[20:38:05] <R2robot> i think[20:38:08] <Atari2600> shakespeare sucks :D[20:38:26] <Atari2600> yeah! the movie starts with her ass stuck on the camera[20:39:24] <LastTalon> You think shakespeare sucks? Let me tell you about raisins.[20:39:37] <Atari2600> yum[20:39:44] <Atari2600> oatmeal with raisins[20:39:47] <Atari2600> rice with raisins[20:39:58] <Atari2600> granola with raisins[20:40:39] <LastTalon> "Give you a reason on compulsion? If reasons were as plentiful as blackberries, I would give no man a reason upon compulsion."[20:40:58] <LastTalon> Raisins[20:41:12] <R2robot> teehee[20:41:20] <LastTalon> R2robot, gets it.[20:41:39] <R2robot> brb, have to poop.. err regenerate[20:42:09] <Atari2600> tudo um bando de chupa rola :D[20:42:37] <LastTalon> I don't speak the language. :D[20:43:08] <LastTalon> I speak spanish though, so I can guess.[20:43:31] <LastTalon> See, its cuz you don't understand raisins.[20:43:32] <Atari2600> usted quieres la plata o lo plomo?[20:44:15] <LastTalon> lo? D:<[20:44:20] <Atari2600> (sic)[20:44:37] <Atari2600> that was a badly spanish sentence from Narcos netflix series[20:44:53] <LastTalon> Yes. A badly sentence indeed.[20:45:10] <Atari2600> it was a nice pun, but badly executed :([20:45:41] <Atari2600> the actor was amazing, but it seems he knew shit about spanish and the production also didn't know better[20:45:50] <Atari2600> he was doing Pablo Escobar[20:46:23] <Atari2600> my mom is a spanish teacher, so I know a little bit of spanish too[20:52:08] <LastTalon> The shakespeare pun is an excellent pun.[20:58:54] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[20:59:27] <Atari2600> so... never use sleep inside a game loop?[20:59:41] <Atari2600> query current time and busy wait, instead?[21:00:09] <LastTalon> If you already have a game loop you should let the game loop do the looping.[21:00:19] <Atari2600> the game loop is handcrafted[21:00:21] <Atari2600> :D[21:00:34] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[21:00:36] <LastTalon> Well it should already be handling the rate at which its meant to be looping.[21:00:43] <LastTalon> So no, never sleep inside it.[21:00:51] <LastTalon> Just wait until the proper time.[21:00:56] <Atari2600> because sleeping times aren't reliable?[21:01:08] <LastTalon> Because sleeping will desync the game loop[21:01:21] <Atari2600> no green loops? no yielding? all CPU consumption?[21:01:24] <LastTalon> The next iteration won't occur at the correct time.[21:01:27] <Atari2600> om nom nom nom[21:01:53] <LastTalon> The engine (or whatever controls the rate of the loop) should be responsible for making sure its not wasting resources in the meantime.[21:02:16] <Atari2600> by doing what? SETI computation instead? :D[21:02:28] <LastTalon> Who cares?[21:03:11] <LastTalon> Tbh usually its by scheduling other tasks it knows can be done inbetween without screwing up the framerate or physics.[21:04:10] <Atari2600> I gonna spend the rest of the CPU by generating procedural game data[21:04:12] <Atari2600> infinite worlds[21:04:15] <Atari2600> world levals[21:04:19] <LastTalon> Its why engines usually get all pissy if you start to do stuff out of its designated thread.[21:04:29] <Atari2600> the engine is MINE[21:04:39] <Atari2600> it will get pissy only if I told it to do so[21:04:41] <Atari2600> OBEY[21:04:53] <LastTalon> Well you should sort that out then.[21:05:59] <Atari2600> busy wait levals[21:06:17] <Atari2600> if that does not fix my jittering, then nothing will[21:08:02] <LunarJetman> the engine is yours?[21:08:38] <Atari2600> yup :)~[21:08:46] <LunarJetman> what does that mean>[21:08:48] <LunarJetman> ?[21:09:41] <Atari2600> it means that I can actually code, instead of just being a user[21:10:02] <LunarJetman> so you deny being a script kiddie?[21:10:42] <Atari2600> that is a dumb question. even the script kiddies would deny it :D[21:11:08] <LunarJetman> what language is your engine written in?[21:11:32] <Atari2600> C++ , of course[21:11:34] <R2robot> lol[21:11:41] <LunarJetman> OpenGL?[21:11:49] <R2robot> THE most obvious question of 2019 already! :P[21:11:54] <R2robot> or answer[21:12:34] <Atari2600> windows GDI and XLIB - open GL can also be used in both envs[21:12:51] <LunarJetman> GDI? ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww[21:12:53] <Atari2600> but 3D sucks[21:12:55] <R2robot> WutFace[21:12:56] *** unixfreak <unixfreak!~null@unaffiliated/unixfreak> has joined #gamedev[21:13:10] <Atari2600> gdi is working very fine for my silly 2D games[21:13:17] <LunarJetman> ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww[21:13:19] <Atari2600> it is just bitmap blasting anyway[21:13:25] <LunarJetman> ew[21:13:26] <R2robot> windows only[21:13:31] <Atari2600> ew why? :D[21:13:38] <Atari2600> R2robot, xlib can also bitmap blast[21:13:43] <LastTalon> Atari2600, are you afraid of not being able to sleep?[21:13:50] <Atari2600> I got the same performance in both systems[21:13:52] <R2robot> WHAT YEAR IS THIS?![21:14:09] <LunarJetman> my engine is currently OpenGL but I will support Vulkan too[21:14:19] <Atari2600> ok, now tell me about your ews[21:14:32] <Atari2600> unless you suffer from some condition. then I will just let this pass[21:14:46] <LunarJetman> also, OpenGL is fine for 2D as well as 3D[21:15:01] <Atari2600> ok, it was a condition[21:15:05] <Atari2600> I hope you get better soon[21:15:08] <R2robot> i use macOS[21:15:18] <R2robot> GDI is out. Xlib.. is a hard maybe[21:15:27] <R2robot> I WANT TO PLAY YOUR GAME[21:15:38] <Atari2600> YOU WILL :D[21:15:48] <R2robot> I HAVE ZERO FAITH IN YOU[21:15:54] <LunarJetman> yeah creating an engine that uses GDI is something you would do in like, 1999[21:15:58] <Atari2600> i am doing enemies and LEVALS[21:16:17] <R2robot> Windows95-98[21:16:33] <Atari2600> LunarJetman, you're useless :D[21:17:30] <LunarJetman> my engine is serious, GDI engine is unserious.[21:17:45] <Atari2600> you aren't serious[21:18:32] <Atari2600> fuck! I want to code my game now[21:18:34] <Atari2600> :~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[21:18:38] <Atari2600> workplace levals :-/[21:18:50] <LunarJetman> ew[21:19:11] <Atari2600> gonna grab some free imported coffee to forget my miserable time here[21:19:20] <Atari2600> java levals[21:19:30] <R2robot> lol[21:22:44] *** Dwarden <Dwarden!Dwarden@static-84-42-238-19.net.upcbroadband.cz> has joined #gamedev[21:24:15] <chrisf> bitmap blasting levals[21:24:49] <chrisf> LunarJetman: by then we had ddraw[21:24:51] <LastTalon> Atari2600, if you're seriously concerned about the busy waiting I wouldn't be.[21:25:04] <pulse> who needs fast redraw when you can make a turn based game[21:25:14] <pulse> turn based levals[21:25:20] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has joined #gamedev[21:29:27] <R2robot> when is it my turn?[21:32:43] <brainzap> bend over[21:35:43] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[21:36:12] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has joined #gamedev[21:40:12] <R2robot> :([21:42:10] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[21:49:00] <Atari2600> chrisf, he is unable to properly criticize anything[21:49:22] <Atari2600> brainzap, lol[21:49:34] <Atari2600> I did not see that COMING[21:51:28] *** Tobbi <Tobbi!~Tobbi@supertux/tobbi> has joined #gamedev[21:53:12] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has joined #gamedev[21:53:38] <LunarJetman> chrisf: yeah GDI is crazy at least use DirectX[21:55:20] <Atari2600> "I don't like it, therefore it sucks"[21:55:36] <LunarJetman> Atari2600: One word: shaders.[21:55:53] <Atari2600> hurr[21:55:57] <LunarJetman> yes, not leveraging shaders does suck[21:56:34] <LunarJetman> GPUs are a thing mate[21:56:45] * chrisf wonders what proportion of this channel is old enough to have programmed pre-shader hardware[21:56:53] <Atari2600> me, ofc[21:56:53] <myke> me[21:57:00] <myke> i'm 48 lol[21:57:04] <LunarJetman> me[21:57:06] <Atari2600> bitmap blasting does not need these dumbfuck shaders[21:57:07] <LunarJetman> i'm 47[21:57:08] <R2robot> me[21:57:24] <Atari2600> yay! lots of old people. you can solve my atari quiz then[21:57:31] <R2robot> no[21:57:34] <Atari2600> https://baudejogos.net/quiz.php?nome=Atari!%20Ataaaahri[21:58:38] <LunarJetman> only a child uses the term "bitmap blasting" .. the correct term is "blitting"[21:58:44] * Atari2600 blasts LunarJetman[21:59:04] <R2robot> LunarJetman: is the guy doing the neofx lib thingy?[21:59:08] <Atari2600> chrisf, my first computer was a brazilian clone of ZX-81[21:59:19] <LunarJetman> R2robot: I am here[21:59:20] <Atari2600> R2robot, yup! the gui engine with 30 classes inherited[21:59:25] <R2robot> ok[21:59:39] <R2robot> all these name changes, but the personalities 'shine' though[21:59:40] <R2robot> lol[21:59:55] <Atari2600> irc avatar levals[22:00:00] *** moongazer <moongazer!~moongazer@unaffiliated/moongazer> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[22:00:22] <Atari2600> I would use and even contribute to his engine if he knew proper OOP[22:00:33] <R2robot> oh dear[22:00:46] <LunarJetman> Atari2600: I know more about OOP than you mate[22:00:54] <Atari2600> yeah! there is an incredible amount of work there. lots of things implemented[22:01:01] <Atari2600> too bad it is unusable, except by him[22:01:06] * R2robot puts both of these kids in a timeout chair[22:01:06] <myke> heard blitting, never heard bitmap blasting[22:01:08] *** mr_lou <mr_lou!~misthalos@085083077157.dynamic.telenor.dk> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:01:16] <Atari2600> I like blasting :D[22:01:24] <chrisf> oop is poop, mate.[22:01:27] <Atari2600> it is more soundy[22:01:30] <Atari2600> chrisf, yup[22:01:43] <Atari2600> I will steal your sentence <3[22:01:47] <LunarJetman> and the game part of my lib isn't object-oriented: it is data-oriented[22:01:48] *** brainzap <brainzap!~brainzap@217.22.129.78> has quit IRC (Quit: My tummy says it's time to sleep Mr. Bubbles.)[22:02:01] <pulse> oop: the most useful paradigm everyone hates for some reason[22:02:02] <pulse> :p[22:02:07] <LunarJetman> my lib has a pure ECS[22:02:07] <Atari2600> still need to inherit from a shit ton of classes to reach the data part :-/[22:02:18] <LunarJetman> Atari2600: no.[22:02:18] <myke> oop is fine[22:02:23] <pulse> myke++[22:02:25] <myke> if you're not a dogmatic idiot[22:02:27] <Atari2600> :D[22:02:29] <chrisf> or: at some granularities, oop is sane. at others, you need to not piss away the machine[22:02:36] <myke> composition over inheritance, etc[22:02:44] <Atari2600> oop is fine if you know how to use inheritance, which means almost never[22:02:53] <pulse> there's two types of paradigms, those everyone hates and those no one uses because they're academic circlejerk devices[22:03:06] <Atari2600> pulse, you love to trivialize everything[22:03:09] <Atari2600> <3 <3 <3[22:03:09] <pulse> of course[22:03:12] <myke> exactly tari[22:03:13] <pulse> that's what i do[22:03:19] <LunarJetman> if you don't know SOLID you shouldn't be doing OOP[22:03:33] <Atari2600> solid poop[22:03:36] <Atari2600> \o/[22:03:44] <pulse> i've learned that progammers give the worst advice[22:03:56] <pulse> i'd rather listen to astrologers[22:03:58] <Atari2600> especially coming from wannabe programmers[22:04:11] <pulse> they're less biased[22:04:13] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[22:04:33] *** PSvils <PSvils!~PDevelope@91.105.108.4> has joined #gamedev[22:05:19] <LunarJetman> I wrote an article on modern OOP: https://isocpp.org/blog/2018/08/data-oriented-design-and-avoiding-the-cpp-object-oriented-programming-zimme[22:05:45] <Atari2600> it is crap[22:05:51] <R2robot> lol[22:06:06] <Atari2600> yeah! he already spammed this in other channels[22:06:22] <R2robot> 2 fine examples of why C++ programmers are the worst people on earth. :P[22:06:34] <Atari2600> s/worst/most picky/[22:06:48] <R2robot> worst[22:07:07] <R2robot> incapable of agreeing to disagree on personal choices. lol[22:07:09] <LunarJetman> why is Atari2600 such a waste of space?[22:07:21] <Atari2600> nope! Atari 2600 was great[22:07:36] <Atari2600> ataaari! ataaari! it's for the childreeeen yeahhhh![22:08:15] <R2robot> someone broke into my house and stole my atari 2600 :([22:08:19] <pulse> if people would stop changing nicks things would be less confusing[22:08:28] <pulse> i'm just sayin'[22:08:48] <LunarJetman> why is the person currently using the nick "Atari2600" such a waste of space?[22:08:50] <R2robot> pulse: not really.. their personality flaws shine through no matter the name. It's easy to guess exactly who they are within minutes.[22:08:55] <pulse> :D[22:09:24] <R2robot> lipstick on a pig[22:09:34] <R2robot> bum wearing a tuxedo[22:09:37] <R2robot> and all that[22:09:47] <pulse> i've added 2 more SSDs to my old PC[22:09:51] <pulse> i hope it doesn't explode when i turn it on[22:09:58] <R2robot> film it![22:10:02] <R2robot> just in case[22:10:03] <pulse> i wanna play alone in the dark on my 4:3 oldschool monitor[22:10:10] <pulse> let's see if this works[22:10:18] <pulse> the cable work is a mess[22:10:20] <pulse> :~[22:10:54] <Atari2600> R2robot is right. nicks are overrated[22:11:46] <LunarJetman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2grpRFT-ok&fbclid=IwAR1DkKvPTWzxxPF3-L7P0kftr94fXNlWs6EXiOBmyjBuE1q8uvFbTKesooM[22:11:57] <R2robot> if IRC chat history could be used during job interviews, these 2 would be un-hireable lol[22:12:34] <Atari2600> so judgmental[22:12:48] <R2robot> hah[22:13:13] * Atari2600 hands over a pedestal to R2robot[22:13:24] <pulse> LunarJetman, non-live version is better :p[22:13:28] <pulse> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPbZABYQJV8[22:13:37] <aeth> anyone see the rotating cube on the Atari 2600?[22:13:49] <pulse> i only know about the rotating cube on jaguar[22:13:57] <Atari2600> aeth, Atari's Rubik's Cube? :D[22:14:01] <R2robot> Atari2600: we all have quirks.. you two have fatal flaws[22:14:15] <Atari2600> aren't we being harsh?[22:14:30] <R2robot> are you being ironic?[22:14:40] <R2robot> have you read your chat history? lol[22:14:52] <Atari2600> have you been being a prick lately? :D[22:14:59] <R2robot> lately?[22:15:01] <aeth> Atari2600: No, I'm talking about Atari demos[22:15:15] <Atari2600> aeth, ahh there are plenty of new homebrew stuff[22:15:16] <Atari2600> hmmmmmmm[22:15:40] <Atari2600> I usually skip these things. but sometimes there are some interesting ones[22:16:59] <LastTalon> Oh. Are people ranting about oop again? Let me get my popcorn![22:16:59] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has joined #gamedev[22:17:13] <Atari2600> https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49237455_1212518915581368_3786250976957038592_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=522d7e9cc022dd1e05a437eadd8025d2&oe=5C90777C[22:17:14] <Atari2600> baby levals[22:17:29] <aeth> I'd share some links to Atari demos but iirc one had nudity and as an American it's my duty to make sure people don't get accidentally exposed to nudity.[22:17:44] <Atari2600> is it a demo of Custer's Revenge?[22:18:06] <aeth> Nudity on the Atari has gotten more realistic over the years, too[22:18:11] <Atari2600> aw[22:18:24] <Atari2600> I really enjoyed the old blocky pr0n atari games[22:18:33] <LastTalon> I love watching people spout their dogma. :D[22:18:37] <Atari2600> X Man[22:18:39] <Atari2600> Bachelor Party[22:18:55] <Atari2600> Beat'em and Eat'em[22:19:25] *** iLoVue <iLoVue!~DinoJS@41.111.15.215> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[22:20:03] <aeth> LastTalon: Dogma about OOP or dogma about nudity on Atari systems?[22:20:10] <LastTalon> OOP[22:20:32] <LastTalon> I left for a few minutes and it looks like the fun conversation came and went.[22:20:34] <LastTalon> Darn.[22:20:52] * Atari2600 farts and spreads it in LastTalon's face[22:21:07] <aeth> LastTalon: My view on OOP is that like all approaches it makes some things easier and some things harder, but it is probably overused at the moment.[22:21:07] <LastTalon> Gross[22:21:33] <Atari2600> aeth, inheritance is overused and misunderstood by most coders. I don't know why that happens[22:21:35] <LastTalon> I don't think its overused. Because its useful. There are those that everyone hates and those that nobody uses.[22:21:37] <pulse> programming paradigm is about as useful to the user/player of your game as 3 year old bubble gum is useful to a hobbit[22:21:42] <Atari2600> I blame Java[22:21:45] <pulse> stop obsessing about it[22:21:59] <Atari2600> Java screwed the minds of almost every coder[22:22:17] <LastTalon> I think people are generally bad at programming and get upset because of it. :P[22:22:24] <LunarJetman> pulse: I have the non-live version on my iTunes.[22:22:34] <aeth> pulse: As I've said here before, code quality has never mattered more for video games in the era where games are rereleased and/or updated for years.[22:22:36] <pulse> LunarJetman, i don't use iTunes :D[22:22:42] <pulse> i'd rather make my own music tbh[22:22:49] <Atari2600> what is iTunes? :D[22:22:58] <LastTalon> Lots of people get weird ideas about object oriented programming (or any paradigm) in their heads and it can really screw up their opinions about it.[22:23:05] <pulse> aeth, code quality matters to the coder[22:23:06] <Atari2600> argh! it is the crappy thing I have to use to back up my wife's phone :-/[22:23:07] <pulse> not to the user[22:23:12] <pulse> at least superficially[22:23:16] <pulse> of course it matters in the long run[22:23:24] <LunarJetman> pulse: I have the non-live version on CD[22:23:30] <Atari2600> good for you[22:23:36] <pulse> i find myself using youtube for 99% of music i listen to[22:23:49] <LunarJetman> I tend to buy CDs and rip them into iTunes[22:23:52] <pulse> it's crappy quality sure but it's convenient[22:24:06] <LastTalon> Like.... with oop for instance a lot of people get this idea in their heads that every program is supposed to look like example programs you see in school that are supposed to be teaching inheritance and polymorphism.[22:24:28] *** DaScoot <DaScoot!~Scooter@static-24-153-33-9.cpe.metrocast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)[22:25:02] <aeth> lol, OOP in school[22:25:13] <LastTalon> And then they run with it and point out how there are all kinds of problems with OOP if you make your programs like that. Which is a surprise to nobody. Which is exactly the demographic that makes their programs where dog inherits from animal.[22:25:21] <LastTalon> :D[22:25:32] <aeth> Pretty much all OOP introductions are awful[22:25:41] <LunarJetman> inheritance is but one OOP tool in the OOP toolbox and OOP is but one tool in the toolbox[22:25:47] <Atari2600> pretty much all CS teachers are awful[22:26:14] <LastTalon> They aren't awful. People are just stupid and think "The textbook does this, therefore that must be the way to write code always. Its clearly not just trying to get me to understand wtf polymorphism is."[22:26:40] <aeth> Vector (or array or whatever your lang calls it) inheriting from Sequence? Good. Cat inheriting from Mammal? What??? Why should there even be a Mammal class? Are you simulating lactation?[22:26:43] <Atari2600> yeah! they are! most of them never coded actual software in their miserable lives[22:26:54] <LastTalon> Like this might sound stupid to some people, but I've talked to people who have been programming for decades who think this way.[22:26:57] <Atari2600> aeth, it depends on the design[22:27:01] <Atari2600> I can do herds[22:27:08] <pulse> never underestimate simulated lactation[22:27:12] <Atari2600> I might want to treat animals generically[22:27:14] <Atari2600> who knows?[22:27:40] <Atari2600> if you use the real world to praise or criticize OOP, you will miserably fail[22:28:00] <LastTalon> People who construct entire arguments against OOP based on this premise as if it was some magical OOP edict that makes people make stupid classes and inheritance trees.[22:28:14] <LunarJetman> I made the following related meme: https://i.imgur.com/m60cBrl.png[22:28:17] <Atari2600> this kind of thinking is what you aeth and most CS teachers miss[22:28:59] <Atari2600> we should give up our biases and focus more on the reasons, the rationale of things[22:29:21] <LastTalon> You can treat animals generically using composition.[22:29:23] <Atari2600> will it make sense to have an Animal class in your application?[22:29:24] <LastTalon> And it works better.[22:29:30] <Atari2600> LastTalon, no. for gods sake[22:29:36] <Atari2600> it works better in YOUR software[22:29:44] <Atari2600> because you designed it to be in that way[22:29:47] <Atari2600> fuck fuck fuck fuck[22:29:49] <LastTalon> This is an animal that flies. This is an animal that eats meat. This is an animal that has four legs.[22:30:48] <aeth> If the only thing Animal has in common is that you want to dispatch based on something being an animal... maybe have a class, maybe don't.[22:30:59] <Atari2600> I also personally advocate a strong separation of model and behavior, but some solutions can work better with more coupling. it depends on how far you want to go and how much you want to separate the responsibilities[22:31:17] <Atari2600> aeth, yeah! we can even use a BUNCH OF FUNCTION POINTERS instead of inheritance[22:31:19] <LunarJetman> Atari2600: word salad.[22:31:21] <Atari2600> no one cares[22:31:37] * Atari2600 will have to side with pulse, unfortunately[22:31:45] <aeth> You could just have an animal? function that returns true or false and that *might* be good enough.[22:32:00] <Atari2600> might :) according to your parameters and expectations[22:32:19] <aeth> (My pseudocode is better than yours because I can use ?s in names)[22:33:06] <aeth> Anyway, it's all about API design which is more of an art than a science[22:35:14] <LastTalon> I mean yeah, thats it.[22:35:32] <LastTalon> Usually when people rail on OOP they're upset at certain designs, not at OOP.[22:36:13] <LastTalon> Kinda how you can have 5000 global variables in procedural programming and its also a bad design.[22:37:06] <LastTalon> Turns out if you're not experienced with programming in a certain paradigm you're going to make bad designs more often.[22:38:12] *** kitsunenokenja <kitsunenokenja!~kitsunech@68.91.220.96> has joined #gamedev[22:39:01] *** alystar <alystar!~alystar@2601:148:4200:36c7:5c2a:2068:877a:cf24> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[22:40:44] <LunarJetman> inheritance tree for my push_button widget: https://neogfx.io/doxygen/html/classneogfx_1_1push__button.html[22:40:56] <jprajzne> art than a science, interesting[22:41:13] <LastTalon> Why not both?[22:41:39] <jprajzne> right? :)[22:42:06] <jprajzne> the api exposes some functionality, aka state?[22:42:26] *** Beliar <Beliar!~Beliar@2a02:8108:9640:6c42:19d5:cdff:879e:8211> has quit IRC (Quit: The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing)[22:42:55] <jprajzne> state can be explained with science[22:43:41] <jprajzne> the naming is probably harder, but one can go with some almanach of names for certain kind of functions[22:44:05] <Atari2600> it is laughable needing to inherit from more than ten classes to have a fucking button[22:44:20] <Atari2600> so Java... so enterprisey[22:44:38] <LunarJetman> Atari2600: that just highlights your ignorance.[22:44:47] <Atari2600> the inheritance diagram can't even fit in the screen[22:44:51] <jprajzne> java is single inheritance :)[22:44:57] <Atari2600> jprajzne, interfaces[22:45:12] <LunarJetman> jprajzne: as is my push_button widget[22:45:14] <Atari2600> jprajzne, LunarJetman has also interfaces: "i_fuckyou"[22:45:34] <jprajzne> Atari2600: right, but not class inheritance[22:45:55] <Atari2600> a button that inherits from more than 15 classes :D :D :D :D[22:45:59] <jprajzne> it's different contractual obligation[22:46:06] <LunarJetman> interfaces not classes[22:46:11] <Atari2600> perhaps the count can even reach 20! I quickly closed the window in disgust[22:47:14] <jprajzne> am not defending th LunarJetman design, just saying there's a difference :)[22:47:32] <jprajzne> it's actually inheritance vs compsition, even though the composition part involved interface inheritance[22:47:38] <Atari2600> I don't see any reason to defend his design[22:47:46] <Atari2600> it is the ubbermost example of inheritance abuse[22:47:49] <LunarJetman> there is a big difference between inheriting interfaces and inheriting ordinary classes but Atari2600 doesn't get that[22:48:03] <Atari2600> the cognitive load is huge[22:48:08] <Atari2600> the usefulness is null[22:48:38] <LastTalon> Yay![22:48:40] <Atari2600> imagine you trying to explain this monster in a job interview[22:48:52] <LastTalon> We're back to programming dogma.[22:49:11] <Atari2600> LastTalon, if you think that inheriting from 99 classes is a matter of dogma, then you have serious issues[22:49:20] <LastTalon> Lol[22:49:24] <LunarJetman> Atari2600 erroneously thinks I am using multiple inheritance: I am not; I am using single inheritance[22:49:37] <jprajzne> well , the cognitive overload is valid argument[22:49:51] <LastTalon> If you think thats what I was referring to you have serious issues.[22:50:01] <Atari2600> super cargo cult kludgy over engineered shit[22:50:22] <Atari2600> but if it works for you, keep doing the good work, LunarJetman :D[22:50:23] <jprajzne> just hand me a spoon to pick that eye :))[22:50:43] <Atari2600> keep being the misunderstood genius :D[22:50:59] <LunarJetman> Atari2600: assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.[22:51:13] <Atari2600> oh no! my assertions will be dismissed??? :([22:51:30] * Atari2600 will rip his ballsack fur now!!![22:51:48] <Atari2600> NHAC![22:51:50] <Atari2600> NHAM![22:51:54] <jprajzne> idk who's the greater masochist now :))[22:52:11] <jprajzne> anyway, keep calm and code :)[22:52:20] <Atari2600> code, code, code[22:52:27] * Atari2600 is suffering from C++ withdrawal[22:52:46] * Atari2600 has three intellij windows opened here. java java java ;([22:53:19] <jprajzne> just get back to basic :))[22:53:25] <Atari2600> now try to solve my atari quiz, bitches :D[22:53:41] <Atari2600> lemme see how savvy are you regarding old fun games \o/[22:54:03] <jprajzne> 6 minutes to bassguitar practice here :)[22:54:08] <Atari2600> this is also a very amazing one --> https://baudejogos.net/quiz.php?nome=Insert%20Coin[22:54:25] <Atari2600> you hear the sound of inserting a coin, you need to guess the title of the arcade game[22:54:45] <LunarJetman> I think Atari2600 was going to make a tk at some point but I guess he gave up as he is a loser.[22:55:22] <Atari2600> LunarJetman, regardless the names you love to call, the tk is already there[22:56:13] <LunarJetman> oh you mean the GDI piece of shit?[22:56:26] <Atari2600> with no inheritance abuse at all[22:56:41] <Atari2600> you see the code, you understand how it works. instantly[22:56:58] <Atari2600> the hello world example is just 5 lines[22:56:59] <Atari2600> and so on[22:57:17] <jprajzne> "your design is so orthogonal it make my neck hurt" :))[22:57:29] <Atari2600> :DDD[22:57:35] <LunarJetman> my hello world is just three lines: https://neogfx.org/images/helloworld.png[22:57:44] <LunarJetman> so fuck you[22:57:53] <Atari2600> oh you fixed it[22:58:00] <Atari2600> last time it was more than three pages[22:58:06] <LunarJetman> no, it wasn't[22:58:21] <Atari2600> yup! then I asked the same question and your answer was fuck you again[22:58:22] <Atari2600> lololol[22:58:30] <Atari2600> glad I was able to put some sense in your mind :)[22:58:39] <pulse> quality of this channel is degrading[22:58:45] <Atari2600> degrading levals[22:58:46] <pulse> plz go to ##people-fighting[22:58:53] <pulse> and let us discuss dragons in peace[22:59:02] <jprajzne> it's the 2019, what did you expect pulse :))[22:59:04] <Atari2600> have you played Dragon Dice?[23:11:18] *** veridiam <veridiam!~veridiam@S010674d02b5e3c80.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #gamedev[23:19:35] *** veridiam <veridiam!~veridiam@S010674d02b5e3c80.vs.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal)[23:24:06] <Atari2600> blargh! I am going to open ANOTHER intellij window[23:28:44] <LunarJetman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIS2yj6ezW8[23:29:33] <Atari2600> Video unavailable[23:29:33] <Atari2600> The uploader has not made this video available in your country.[23:30:11] <LunarJetman> stop whining[23:30:27] <Atari2600> stop being a full retard[23:30:32] <Atari2600> never go full retard[23:31:04] <LunarJetman> yeah only full retards make a GDI toolkit in 2019[23:31:23] <Atari2600> your personal issues with GDI are really curious :)[23:31:58] * coffee is currently making a game with a gdi backend[23:32:13] <LunarJetman> the issue here is your complete ignorance of GPUs and shaders.[23:32:22] <Atari2600> O_O[23:32:32] <Atari2600> so offensive[23:32:41] <Atari2600> what makes you nervous?[23:32:57] <Atari2600> why does GDI itch your nerves?[23:33:11] <LunarJetman> the issue here is your complete ignorance of GPUs and shaders.[23:33:25] <Atari2600> why do you think I don't know GPU?[23:34:29] <Atari2600> no response.. that was just a delusion then :)[23:34:38] <coffee> quake 2, software backend, was really a smart thing[23:34:42] <Atari2600> quake 2[23:34:52] <Atari2600> I played Quake 1 a lot, actually[23:34:56] <Atari2600> but 2 was good too[23:34:59] <LunarJetman> coffee: it's 2019.[23:35:01] <Atari2600> rocket jump!!![23:35:06] <coffee> :) yea awesome[23:35:20] <coffee> Why is GDI still relevant in 2019...[23:35:21] <Atari2600> good games are timeless[23:35:48] <Atari2600> coffee, for bitmap blasting it does not matter much :)[23:35:56] <coffee> Right :)[23:35:56] <R2robot> Same 2.. every single time[23:36:02] *** escherial <escherial!~escherial@unaffiliated/escherial> has joined #gamedev[23:36:02] <R2robot> Take that shit to ##programming[23:36:03] <LunarJetman> only full retards use the term "bitmap blasting"[23:36:25] <coffee> It's annoyin[23:36:30] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[23:36:42] <R2robot> wait, coffee is an actual person? OMG[23:36:47] <Atari2600> my bitmaps are a blast <3[23:37:03] <R2robot> I see the coffee name getting highlighted all the time. Never seen 'em type anything :D[23:37:10] <aeth> We all need coffee[23:37:13] <Atari2600> ^[23:37:21] <Atari2600> my current addiction[23:37:24] <[Relic]> coffee can type?[23:37:27] <R2robot> I've had 2 sips of coffee in my entire life[23:37:30] <Atari2600> coffee and The Binding of Isaac[23:37:39] * R2robot is not a fan of the coffee[23:37:57] <Atari2600> you should drink the right kind of coffee[23:38:00] <aeth> #steamdb has a Tea[23:38:10] <R2robot> Atari2600: hahaha, no such thing[23:38:21] <Atari2600> lots of different flavors, textures, effects...[23:38:26] <aeth> oh hey [Relic] is here[23:38:31] <Atari2600> there is even a COLOR WHEEL for coffee grains[23:38:35] * Atari2600 took some classes[23:38:39] <aeth> [Relic]: How is your spaceship game going? I think I need to ask you every 5 years or so[23:38:50] <R2robot> People used to say the same thing to me about beer. "you need to try THIS one" ugh, no.. THey're all shit[23:38:59] <coffee> what kind of game are you making Atari2600 ?[23:39:10] <Atari2600> a berzerk / frenzy clone[23:39:11] <aeth> R2robot: People don't drink beer for the flavor and if they say they do they're lying.[23:39:30] <R2robot> beer drinkers are all liars then[23:39:52] <coffee> ok, nice.[23:40:17] <R2robot> technically it's the hops in beer that is nasty[23:40:44] <R2robot> that overpowering bitterness makes them all taste the same to me[23:41:01] <R2robot> no matter if it's wheat, barely, rye whatever beer[23:41:48] * Atari2600 drinks beer because their flavor[23:41:56] <Atari2600> but I only drink fancy beers now[23:42:03] <R2robot> no such thing[23:42:38] <R2robot> there actually is one beer I like.. because it doesn't have hops. :D[23:42:45] <Atari2600> which beer is that?[23:42:50] <aeth> Fancy beers are like fancy hamburgers, I mean I guess they exist, but wanting one is the most American thing ever.[23:43:02] <LunarJetman> beers I drink: http://www.salopianbrewery.co.uk/[23:44:06] <Atari2600> aeth, I started drinking fancy beers in brazil[23:44:14] <Atari2600> I have lotsa friends who homebrew :)[23:44:36] <aeth> America exports its culture (although technically it probably got its original beer culture from Germany many, many years ago)[23:44:57] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[23:45:00] <aeth> I get the impression that the most Brazilian thing to want is a fancy coffee[23:45:29] <Atari2600> yes and no[23:45:32] <Atari2600> we have amazing coffee[23:45:35] <Atari2600> but we don't drink it[23:45:40] <Atari2600> fucked up country[23:45:45] <aeth> <insert the two arms meme thing here with one saying "Brazilians" and the other saying "Italians" and the middle saying "quality coffee">[23:45:52] <R2robot> The one I like is a fruit beer. :D[23:46:12] <Atari2600> that happens in other countries like Colombia, Indonesia, Guatemala, etc.[23:46:22] <Atari2600> they export the good grains and they serve the leftovers to the people[23:47:02] <LunarJetman> In an isolated system entropy can only increase.[23:47:34] <Atari2600> !quotes[23:47:50] <Atari2600> hmm this bot is lagging :-/[23:48:30] <R2robot> https://i.imgur.com/JW8iEdx.jpg[23:48:43] <Atari2600> ah I like lambic too[23:48:48] <Atari2600> but it is not beer[23:48:56] <Atari2600> I drink it anyway :D[23:49:09] *** atomekk <atomekk!~atomekk@unaffiliated/atomekk> has joined #gamedev[23:49:09] <R2robot> it is beer[23:49:31] <LunarJetman> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsidcB-24JU[23:49:32] <R2robot> even says so on the label lol[23:49:42] <Atari2600> it is 'beer' :D[23:52:38] <R2robot> yeah, they've won several 'beer' awards :P[23:54:19] *** knops <knops!~yannick@ip-62-143-84-11.hsi01.unitymediagroup.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[23:57:33] *** rindolf <rindolf!~rindolf@77.125.57.214> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[23:59:31] <aeth> So what you're saying is that the best beer isn't beer and even beer people admit it