December 5, 2008 
< | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | >
December 5, 2008 NOTICE: This channel is no longer actively logged.
[01:05:41] *** oisinAWAY is now known as oisinh[03:06:44] *** oisinh is now known as oisinDORT[07:51:40] *** renatz has joined #eclipse-stp[08:22:15] *** renatz_ has joined #eclipse-stp[08:40:44] *** renatz has quit IRC[09:19:47] *** renatz_ has quit IRC[09:20:27] *** oisinDORT has quit IRC[10:31:30] *** vzurczak has joined #eclipse-stp[10:31:40] <vzurczak> Hi.[10:47:49] *** Flo_JWT has joined #eclipse-stp[10:47:51] *** mistria has joined #eclipse-stp[10:49:04] <Flo_JWT> Hi all, is there a specific time when the STP project will discuss about their build process?[10:49:33] <toulmean> Flo_JWT: well Oisin killed most of the suspense yesterday[10:49:52] <toulmean> if you follow stp-dev, you'll see he posted instructions[10:50:00] <toulmean> I will continue working on it today[10:50:12] <toulmean> and will interact on IRC, yes, but no specific times[10:50:18] <toulmean> that's the ransom of agile[10:50:48] <Flo_JWT> ah, okay, I've seen the wiki site, so we will start with that, too, and will ask any questions via IRC[10:51:08] <toulmean> Flo_JWT: our build process is specific to SVN[10:51:17] <toulmean> won't work for CVS I think[10:51:28] <toulmean> for CVS you should look at releng[10:51:38] <Flo_JWT> oh, okay, thanks for the advice[10:51:41] <toulmean> and look for the documentation Nick Boldt produced[10:52:10] <toulmean> the reason why we almost got thrown out of the last release train is because we had to reinvent the wheel to accomodate with svn[10:52:18] *** the_alien has joined #eclipse-stp[10:52:22] <the_alien> hey there[10:52:26] <Flo_JWT> yeah, I guess I've seen the document already. Mickael, haven't you added them to your bug yesterday, too?[10:52:29] <toulmean> eclipse is so stubborn not moving away from cvs, they made everything depending on it[10:52:32] <Flo_JWT> heya[10:52:36] <toulmean> hey the_alien[10:52:47] <toulmean> you have a question for me I bet ?[10:52:48] <toulmean> :)[10:52:48] <Flo_JWT> yeah, that's a pity. we would prefer SVN, too[10:52:59] <toulmean> Flo_JWT: well just ask for it[10:53:08] <toulmean> I will ask for git support soon[10:53:20] <toulmean> there is a technology SVN repo[10:53:23] <the_alien> no more questions toulmean. they kicked me out of the project[10:53:32] <toulmean> the_alien: what ?[10:53:33] <the_alien> brb[10:53:38] <toulmean> wtf[10:55:02] <toulmean> the_alien: ok, hey I hope you're ok[11:01:21] <vzurczak> Guys, I just tried to commit on the new SCA SVN location, and it does not work. I made new checkouts, tried with a new clean workspace, tried with a new Eclipse and new workspace. It says I don't have the permissions. Do you think I should reopen the bug about the SVN structure change or create a new one?[11:02:20] <toulmean> wait vzurczak, are you a SCA committer ?[11:02:25] <the_alien> worked for over one year on this. it was my baby.[11:02:38] <toulmean> the_alien: I bet that hurt.[11:02:56] <toulmean> so are you laid off ?[11:03:03] <toulmean> or just out of the project ?[11:03:05] <the_alien> now i've got a task for a trainee[11:03:10] <the_alien> just the project[11:03:18] <toulmean> what's your new task ?[11:03:32] <toulmean> if that's not sensible info[11:03:41] <vzurczak> Yes, Iam an SCA committer.[11:03:55] <the_alien> fixing some minor gui bugs in a configuration manager[11:04:46] <toulmean> czurczak: what error do you get when doing a checkout ?[11:04:57] <toulmean> what is the url you use, do you use svn+ssh ?[11:05:06] *** mdutoo has joined #eclipse-stp[11:05:20] <the_alien> pretty sad, i loved working with the bpmn modeler[11:05:21] <toulmean> if nothing works you should send an email to webmaster, with your IP[11:05:23] <vzurczak> I just tried to modify existing files as a starting point. And it says "svn: Commit failed (details follow):[11:05:23] <vzurczak> svn: Commit failed (details follow):[11:05:23] <vzurczak> svn: Can't create directory '/svnroot/stp/org.eclipse.stp.sca-tools/db/transactions/2830-1.txn': Permission denied[11:05:23] <vzurczak> "[11:05:54] <vzurczak> Yes, svn+ssh. And I got no problem during the checkouts.[11:06:06] <toulmean> the_alien: it was fun having you around. Sorry for your loss[11:06:28] <toulmean> vzurczak: sdrapeau, do you have the same issue ?[11:06:46] <sdrapeau> No. I just tried and it works for me.[11:06:57] <vzurczak> OK. I'll send an email to the webmaster.[11:07:04] <sdrapeau> Yep[11:07:26] <toulmean> too bad, they live on a different timezone, you'll be stuck until 2pm French time[11:08:08] <the_alien> writing two exams the next 2 weeks. maybe i can help on the modeler in my sparetime afterwards. thought this think could be my great chance...[11:08:21] <vzurczak> It's OK, I can wait til this time. :)[11:08:37] <toulmean> the_alien: ok, can you tell what happened ? Will they still use the BPMN modeler ? Should I expect another student to come up with questions ?[11:08:50] <toulmean> and yes send your resume, can't hurt[11:09:01] <toulmean> we have a company in germany now :)[11:09:14] <the_alien> hmmmm[11:09:45] <toulmean> the_alien: we acquired a german company named Process Square. Awesome times, awesome people to work with[11:10:05] <the_alien> will ask for a reference from my manager later today[11:10:19] <the_alien> where is this company?[11:10:24] <toulmean> but, hrmm, people on this channel would like to hear me complain about the build system, sorry for the noise guys[11:11:24] <toulmean> Process Square ? Munchen[11:12:54] <the_alien> far away :/ too bad[11:13:09] <toulmean> the_alien: lol ![11:13:22] <toulmean> how about you come to work with us in San Francisco![11:13:41] <toulmean> ah really those youngsters... ain't flexible at all[11:22:53] <the_alien> i'm unflexible cause of my studies... i can't travel a few hundret kms 1-4 times a week[11:23:09] <the_alien> >1000 km both ways[11:23:23] <the_alien> i would love to work in SF or munich[11:23:44] <toulmean> the_alien: how long are you going to be studying ?[11:23:56] <the_alien> about a year from now[11:24:19] <toulmean> ok. Send your resume, we can maybe make you work part time remotely or something[11:24:56] <toulmean> of course no formal promises, but you look like a smart guy with love for code, so I'm interested[11:25:06] <toulmean> and I also am not the guy who takes decisions :)[11:29:55] <the_alien> formal resume per email to you?[11:30:47] <toulmean> yep[11:58:01] *** oisinh has joined #eclipse-stp[13:25:51] *** steph__ has joined #eclipse-stp[13:44:30] *** sdrapeau has quit IRC[13:51:02] <toulmean> oisinh: hello, I have questions[13:51:26] <toulmean> the tgz you attached to the bug, I unzipped it, it contains a folder build/buckminster[13:51:39] <toulmean> this folder contains files that used to be in build[13:52:04] <toulmean> is it correct to remove all current files in build, and put the files that were in build/buckminster in build/[13:52:16] <toulmean> or should I keep the structure build/buckminster[13:56:11] <Flo_JWT> Hi there, Mickael and me are currently working on the "old" PDE/Releng. We already managed to build a feature from command line. The next step would now be to have the .map and .fetch-files.[13:56:22] <Flo_JWT> Are these files written manually or are there tools available for that?[13:57:07] <toulmean> Flo_JWT: I believe manually[13:57:24] <Flo_JWT> okay, thanks[13:57:25] <toulmean> there is some doc about it, and you have to create them for Babel too[13:57:42] <toulmean> they are a pain to get right the first time, but that doesn't change much afterwards[13:57:46] <Flo_JWT> yes, I know. I already created a map-file, but are not sure right now whether it works :-)[13:57:54] <Flo_JWT> puuh, that's good to hear[13:58:31] <toulmean> you should create a map file for each branch of your development btw. No I don't know how to specify that in CVS, but there must be doc for it[13:59:57] <Flo_JWT> for each branch? But if I'm only interested in building the head?[14:00:17] <Flo_JWT> the only thing I found right now is http://www.eclipse.org/articles/Article-PDE-Automation/automation.html[14:00:39] <toulmean> Flo_JWT: well then you can have just one for the head for now[14:01:32] <Flo_JWT> ah, okay, thanks (by the way it was a pity that you could not come to ESE, then we could have had the possibility to get to know each other in person)[14:01:40] <toulmean> oisinh: ping pong[14:02:01] <toulmean> Flo_JWT: yep[14:02:07] <toulmean> well I made a source code page[14:02:23] <toulmean> from the outside btw I have to say there wasn't enough coverage of the event[14:02:28] <toulmean> oh well[14:02:41] <toulmean> I might go to EclipseCon if my talk is accepted[14:03:02] <Flo_JWT> yeah, maybe. EclipseCon: maybe we might see each other there then (similar condition ;-)[14:05:20] *** sdrapeau has joined #eclipse-stp[14:05:37] <mistria> hi all[14:06:36] <mistria> about build files... Do yoy know whether "customTarget,xml" build file can be generated or if it has to be written by hand[14:06:38] <mistria> ?[14:10:59] <Flo_JWT> Mickael, I just found a sample implementation from the ide4edu project[14:11:02] <Flo_JWT> it can be found here[14:11:03] <Flo_JWT> http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.eclipse.soc/ide4edu/org.eclipse.soc.ide4edu.releng/?root=Technology_Project[14:11:23] <Flo_JWT> it seems to have already customTargets.xml and the other files there, so we might start here[14:14:03] <toulmean> git people, I know you hide in the depths of this channel[14:16:09] <toulmean> git support is just one vote away 257706[14:17:55] <Flo_JWT> I saw the bug message, but what is a git? If you like then I can vote for the bug, but before I would be interested what it means[14:18:40] <toulmean> Flo_JWT: ah, you should get some doc about it first[14:19:08] <toulmean> here is a blog post I had made some time ago[14:19:09] <toulmean> http://www.lunar-ocean.com/how-git-can-help-eclipse/[14:19:21] <toulmean> in the comments there is a video screencast of Linus talking about it[14:19:23] <toulmean> takes an hour[14:19:28] <toulmean> makes your head spin[14:19:41] <toulmean> also the link to Assaf post is very insightful[14:23:59] *** steph__ has quit IRC[14:25:25] <oisinh> toulmean: sorry I was at lunch.[14:25:54] <oisinh> toulmean: if you keep the structure then you won't have to edit the files[14:26:22] <oisinh> toulmean: I suggest that you keep it and then you can have build/cruisecontrol build/whatever so the build is a hold-all[14:26:50] <toulmean> oisinh: ok![14:27:10] <Flo_JWT> toulmean: sounds interesting. Would have been benificial in the last months, where we developed on a branch and now we committed everything manually back to head[14:30:40] <toulmean> Flo_JWT: yes, how did that feel ? painful, eh ?[14:34:37] <Flo_JWT> toulmean: yes, really. But it was on the other side good to improve the code when it was moved to head again[14:35:24] <toulmean> oisinh: shall we comment to tell we go for Galileo ? ~251715 ? should we do that SCA and BPMN ?[14:35:24] <KOS-MOS> Bug 251715 - https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=251715 - Simultaneous Release / Prereq / Galileo - All / All - NEW / normal / - Assignee: simultaneousrelease-inbox at eclipse dot org - Confirm Intent[14:36:26] <oisinh> go for it toulmean :)[14:36:38] <toulmean> oisinh: go for it as in[14:36:44] <toulmean> 1. BPMN ?[14:36:49] <toulmean> 2. all STP ?[14:36:59] <toulmean> 3. both, plus SCA[14:37:01] <oisinh> stp, stp.bpmn-modeler, stp-sca-tools[14:37:07] <toulmean> allright 3![14:37:12] <oisinh> yay![14:43:15] <toulmean> ~251715#c10[14:45:53] <oisinh> looks like kos-mos didn't like that :)[14:46:08] <sdrapeau> "And become a rock band, but this is for another bug"[14:46:09] <sdrapeau> :)[14:46:47] <toulmean> sdrapeau: yeah, this sounded way too serious. Well your coworker comment was fun too[14:47:05] <sdrapeau> yep ;)[14:47:25] <oisinh> I think a lot of the time the eclipse foundation can be 'a bit too serious'.[14:47:27] <oisinh> :)[14:48:25] <the_alien> rofl, thats a nice bugzilla comment... even though i dont know the context ;)[14:49:22] <toulmean> indeed. I had to refrain to attach your Facebook profile picture Oisin, as Bono might have taken offense of the competition of yet another Irish singer[14:49:46] <oisinh> toulmean: that's ok, he's shorter than me anyway.[14:49:57] <oisinh> toulmean: and I know where he lives :)[14:50:22] <toulmean> :)[14:51:29] <the_alien> :)[15:15:43] <toulmean> oisinh: in the current setup the build folder must be placed at the root of the repo[15:15:58] <toulmean> so how can I do a build for trunk, a build for a branch, etc ?[15:17:50] <toulmean> ok, I am hacking the rmap file[15:20:44] <oisinh> toulmean: if you are putting in the build directory as a peer of org.eclipse.stp.bpmn then there will be some path changes you will need to put in[15:21:07] <toulmean> I'm trying to be smart and externalize the path change[15:21:21] <toulmean> like you do with {0} and {1}[15:22:28] <oisinh> the way I've designed it to build tags branches is you do ant -Dproject.tag=branches/MYBRANCH[15:22:37] <oisinh> or ant -Dproject.tag=tags/3.4.1[15:22:47] <oisinh> it just defaults to ant -Dproject.tag=trunk[15:23:11] <oisinh> so you just pass a parameter to the ant invocation to do that and it will fill out the path names in the rmap magically.[15:23:26] <toulmean> I see.[15:23:52] <oisinh> give me an example task you want to do and I will do a quick wiki note on it![15:24:06] <toulmean> I guess I will need to specify the dependencies versions depending of the branch as well[15:24:16] <toulmean> for example 1.0.x depends on 3.4.x[15:24:22] <toulmean> gmf 2, etc[15:24:34] <oisinh> then you will also need to set the platform path appropriately - like[15:25:32] <oisinh> ant -Dpde.target.platform.path=/shared/stp/platforms/3.4.1/eclipse -Dproject.tag=branches/MyBranch[15:25:49] <toulmean> ok, that's great[15:25:55] <toulmean> I will do a bash script[15:25:59] <oisinh> then you can make a scripts[15:26:03] <oisinh> ah you got there before me :)[15:27:01] <toulmean> thanks![15:27:15] <oisinh> let me know how you get on[15:37:35] *** Flo_JWT has left #eclipse-stp[15:59:30] *** renatz has joined #eclipse-stp[16:14:33] <the_alien> toulmean: do you need a reference from my employer?[16:15:05] <toulmean> the_alien: whatever you can throw[16:15:21] <toulmean> the_alien: if you are currently employed, and don't intend to depart...[16:16:00] <toulmean> you choose. I'm not offering you a job, I'd like to see your resume, and show it to my manager[16:16:08] <the_alien> i know[16:16:12] <toulmean> and try to convince him that we could give you a side job[16:16:19] <toulmean> so don't get yourself in trouble[16:16:28] <toulmean> ok, no employer recommendation[16:16:34] <the_alien> just wanted to know if you insist on a reference[16:16:34] <toulmean> we will ask one if necessary[16:16:41] <the_alien> ok[16:16:42] <the_alien> fine[16:16:43] <toulmean> no we care about how you code[16:17:12] <the_alien> best in the evening with lots of coffee ;)[16:17:36] <toulmean> my manager takes three to four cups a day, extra strong[16:17:41] <toulmean> + energy drinks[16:17:47] <toulmean> when he has hangovers[16:17:54] <toulmean> so sometimes he types super fast :D[16:18:13] <the_alien> three to four is my breakfast ;)[17:00:04] *** vzurczak has quit IRC[17:08:26] *** renatz has quit IRC[17:10:22] *** the_alien has quit IRC[17:56:07] *** oisinh has quit IRC[18:07:05] *** sdrapeau has quit IRC[18:38:15] *** mistria has quit IRC[19:41:45] *** renatz has joined #eclipse-stp[20:08:33] *** renatz has quit IRC[20:27:17] *** renatz has joined #eclipse-stp[20:31:52] *** renatz has quit IRC[20:55:27] *** the_alien has joined #eclipse-stp[20:55:43] <the_alien> someone still here?[20:55:52] <toulmean> yes[20:56:07] <toulmean> there is me, Marc Dutoo, the JWT co-lead[20:56:19] <toulmean> echelog, the bot that archive this log on the web[20:56:25] <the_alien> you'll never stop working, eh?[20:56:29] <toulmean> and our trusty KOS-MOS![20:56:54] <toulmean> well wife was supposed to cook, but still not smelling food[20:57:13] <toulmean> so remaining sit to avoid passing out of exhaustion[20:58:02] <the_alien> :9[20:58:03] <the_alien> :)[20:58:53] <the_alien> something in the air i can work on, on a boring friday evening?[20:59:26] <toulmean> you are bored ?[20:59:42] <toulmean> we have several things yes[20:59:58] <the_alien> yeah, somewhat bored[21:00:16] <toulmean> ~248275[21:00:16] <KOS-MOS> Bug 248275 - https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248275 - BPMN / diagram / unspecified - PC / Mac OS X - NEW / enhancement / - Assignee: hmalphettes at intalio dot com - [Help wanted]Create video of BPMN diagram edition[21:00:59] <toulmean> ~248275[21:01:00] <KOS-MOS> Bug 248275 - https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=248275 - BPMN / diagram / unspecified - PC / Mac OS X - NEW / enhancement / - Assignee: hmalphettes at intalio dot com - [Help wanted]Create video of BPMN diagram edition[21:01:13] <toulmean> this one is a bit sarcastic sorry...[21:01:30] <toulmean> ~221518[21:01:31] <KOS-MOS> Bug 221518 - https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=221518 - BPMN / diagram / unspecified - PC / Linux - NEW / enhancement / - Assignee: antoine at lunar-ocean dot com - Create the page 2 diagram for the due diligence process[21:01:58] <the_alien> i made a short video on creating a bpmn diagram ;)[21:02:27] <toulmean> post it to youtube![21:02:43] <toulmean> post it to vimeo, and ask the people of live.eclipse.org to add it to their site[21:02:48] <toulmean> and blog about it.[21:02:52] <toulmean> and send me a link[21:03:20] <the_alien> was with my (ex)project, so not the pure bpmn-modeler[21:03:35] <toulmean> arf[21:03:44] <toulmean> so why did they kick you out ?[21:04:00] <toulmean> blind guess: you were talking too much about it with me ?[21:04:13] <toulmean> second guess: you had a personal problem with the manager ?[21:04:26] <the_alien> teamleader and me seem to have different .... yeah, second guess[21:04:43] <toulmean> did they contact Intalio btw ?[21:04:48] <toulmean> oh well not my business[21:05:36] <the_alien> we seem to have different view on software developing[21:06:17] <toulmean> ok...[21:06:20] <the_alien> even though she ... hmmm how should i say... i was the hacking slave and shouldn't have my own oppinion on open source, architecture and software design[21:06:52] <the_alien> exaggerated[21:06:54] <toulmean> did they find a new slave to chain to your keyboard ?[21:07:21] <toulmean> no, but being kicked out of a project ain't good. I'd say the manager is a failure[21:08:03] <the_alien> maybe. who am i to judge...[21:08:10] <toulmean> the manager should have managed you. listened and then told you that this was all pretty, but that money was out there, and that was the direction to take and basta.[21:08:33] <the_alien> surely i made mistakes.... but nothing to serious[21:08:53] <toulmean> and tell you too you would be able to open source your code once it is mature and that it is a commodity[21:09:37] <the_alien> oh, i've got no problem with not making the code open source[21:09:46] <toulmean> ah[21:09:49] <toulmean> ah ok[21:10:00] <the_alien> it was more like she avoided helping open source projects[21:10:10] <the_alien> translation for example[21:10:21] <toulmean> I see, ok[21:10:25] <the_alien> had to fight, to get a translation[21:10:30] <toulmean> I understand, different mindset.[21:10:35] <the_alien> it wasn't done yet?[21:10:44] <toulmean> the translation ?[21:10:46] <toulmean> in german ?[21:10:52] <the_alien> yeah[21:11:09] <toulmean> looking[21:11:49] <toulmean> it's translated roughly up to 25%[21:11:57] <toulmean> mostly by you.[21:12:00] <toulmean> thanks! :D[21:12:10] <the_alien> my view on coding is, that i plan those things and afterwards i code[21:12:31] <the_alien> search for good solutions[21:12:44] <the_alien> not writing hot code all the time[21:13:11] <the_alien> no requirements from the product management[21:13:15] <toulmean> ah[21:13:43] <the_alien> *shrug*[21:14:05] <toulmean> yes I see. Trouble trouble.[21:14:15] <toulmean> well send your resume[21:14:31] <the_alien> i will[21:14:53] <the_alien> hoping for nothing, but i'm open minded ;)[21:15:36] <the_alien> *searching for the svn url*[21:16:12] <toulmean> the_alien: for what ?[21:16:30] <toulmean> http://www.eclipse.org/bpmn/source_code.php[21:16:38] <the_alien> found it :)[21:16:45] <the_alien> check out the source code?[21:17:12] <toulmean> take a teamset file and pull everything[21:17:23] <toulmean> if you have a svn client that should work[21:17:29] <toulmean> otherwise svn co svn_url[21:17:53] <the_alien> hm... installed subclipse, but it isn't showing up[21:17:57] <toulmean> KOS-MOS: add bpmn_source Looking for the source of the BPMN modeler ? Here you go! http://www.eclipse.org/bpmn/source_code.php[21:18:06] <toulmean> then svn co.[21:18:48] <toulmean> ~bpmn_source[21:18:48] <KOS-MOS> Looking for the source of the BPMN modeler ? Here you go! http://www.eclipse.org/bpmn/source_code.php[21:18:53] <toulmean> oh yeah![21:19:58] <the_alien> oh nive[21:19:59] <the_alien> nice[21:20:01] <the_alien> mac os x[21:20:06] <the_alien> has build in svn client :)[21:20:34] <toulmean> yes, and ruby[21:26:35] <the_alien> but too bad subclipse is making trouble. its nice to have that small icons for team projects[21:27:02] <toulmean> well.[21:27:21] <the_alien> later... :)[21:27:23] <toulmean> you should just do Team>Share projects and it should workl[21:27:54] <the_alien> normally is should just do Import>Projects from SVN[21:27:58] <the_alien> and it should work[21:27:59] <toulmean> if it doesn't it might be because the plugins are not activated, and that might be p2 related[21:28:01] <toulmean> yes[21:28:16] <toulmean> you can restart eclipse with a -clean[21:35:21] <the_alien> selecting the root node of subclipse DOESN'T install subversion client... nice to know ;)[21:39:10] <the_alien> wtf... disconn?[21:43:03] *** renatz has joined #eclipse-stp[22:20:00] <the_alien> how to open a newsgroup link under macosx? downloaded thunderbird, with windows i just had to click on the link... but mac thunderbird wants to answer to the newsgroup[22:31:38] <the_alien> toulmean, still there?[23:25:08] *** renatz has quit IRC