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   January 8, 2019  
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[00:43:05] <Aleric> Man, this is the most impressive thing I've seen in a long time.... A Conway's Life pattern (HUGE) that counts in hexadecimal....
[00:43:40] <Aleric> https://gyazo.com/35ce4c85630aaf6eef7dc2fb3cf7fdc1
[00:44:03] <Aleric> Every 10,000 generations or so it counts one up :)
[00:44:49] <Aleric> Zoomed in: https://gyazo.com/991ac917bb99fa9fe7fb23d3a91f2311
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[00:45:28] <Aleric> Zoomed in further: https://gyazo.com/5a0582b6f2692535d5b49002332aac3e
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[00:46:10] <Aleric> Zoomed in even further: https://gyazo.com/66311c854afa9e520b23ed819f375cbb
[00:47:42] <Aleric> I got the program that runs this from here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/golly/
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[00:58:15] <kalven> nice
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[01:20:43] <AmR|EiSa> Any one work with Qt5 & android ? + ArchLinux ?
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[04:12:37] <JC_Yang> anyone has experiences using boost asio in multicast app? The receiver I write based on it does not receive any msgs and google tells me that I'm not alone, and it seems to be a long standing bug. any suggestions?
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[04:21:29] <JC_Yang> hmmm... this dump question should be abandoned... I've confirmed that I was f**k by the firewall...
[04:22:46] <Stanley00> sure, first rule to debug network: Make sure the packets come to your NIC :3
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[04:34:58] <JC_Yang> wireshark told me they'd arrived already...
[04:36:08] <zap0> Y U N contact the author?
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[05:53:38] <hungrywolf> https://wandbox.org/permlink/e45PC3d2n0HUbHLl I cannot understand why there is auto_lclose infront of lua_State line 17 in above paste Why are there two identifiers right next to each other, what is this called in c++?
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[05:57:27] <Stanley00> hungrywolf: just maybe some #define to empty, did you check document for lua?
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[05:58:53] <hungrywolf> Stanley00: I am not clear on what you mean, can you be more explicit
[05:59:13] <hungrywolf> do you mean LuaJit docs?
[06:00:07] <Stanley00> hungrywolf: I mean check what is auto_lclose defined, it maybe in some lua headers you included
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[06:00:30] <hungrywolf> okay
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[07:54:14] <mistry> hi, is there any threadpool implementation that accepts functions that return void? basically I am trying to run threadpool on large number of objects and dont want to allocate seperate memory for results collected in std::futures.
[07:56:51] <mistry> also i tried https://github.com/vit-vit/ctpl but its taking more time (x5) than single threaded. i guess not efficient for large number of tasks
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[08:05:08] <Stanley00> first, make sure you compile with optimaztion turn on, second, you can try avoid copy data, and third, calculate the speedup you can get, maybe your problem just doesn't fit with parallel programming then
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[08:41:31] <cbreak> mistry: do you even need futures?
[08:41:45] <cbreak> if you don't care when a function has finished executing, you might not.
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[08:44:07] <mistry> cbreak: no i dont need futures. can i invoke async threads without futures?
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[08:45:50] <cbreak> depends on how you build your thread pool. you can have a thread that waits on some std::deque<std::function<void()>>
[08:45:54] <cbreak> or multiple
[08:46:14] <cbreak> C++ itself doesn't really have a standardized thread pool
[08:46:27] <cbreak> std::async might be a thread pool, depending on implementation, but it might also not
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[09:50:51] <cbreak> (Ha, those recent attacks on etherium are funny... someone finally bothered to do it :)
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[10:08:51] <quarterback> cbreak, is xor encryption broken easily? How many hours do you think it would take to decode a 500 word cipher text with xor encryption and a 64 char ascii key.
[10:09:17] <TheSchaf> lol
[10:09:50] <TheSchaf> define decode
[10:09:50] <quarterback> I think the decoding process is easier if only a few commonly used english words are searched.
[10:10:18] <TheSchaf> there is attacks using the frequency of letters
[10:10:42] <TheSchaf> its pretty fast to get readable text, there are plenty of tools available that can do this
[10:10:57] <quarterback> A original message with 500 english words is encrypted with a 64 char xor encryption. To decode is to get the original message and the correct key.
[10:10:58] <TheSchaf> also you didnt define how many chars the text has so it is hard to say
[10:11:13] <TheSchaf> words means nothing unless you are taking about words in the sense of ints
[10:11:20] <quarterback> TheSchaf, The text can contain 100 to 1000 words in english.
[10:11:32] <TinoDidriksen> Trivial to break, then.
[10:11:35] <TheSchaf> i dont care about the words, i care about the length in characters
[10:11:58] <TheSchaf> the more often the key is repeatedly used the easier it gets
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[10:12:18] <quarterback> The key can be something as "0xFE&34le*;"
[10:12:33] <TinoDidriksen> A word is ~7 letters, so 800-8000 characters with spaces/punctuation. Easily analyzed.
[10:12:34] <TheSchaf> ?
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[10:13:06] <TheSchaf> yeah, if its 800-8000 characters with 64 char key size and english words it can prob. be broken in seconds
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[10:13:22] <TinoDidriksen> Doesn't matter if the key is fully random. It's repeated so often it's easy to analyze away.
[10:13:51] <TheSchaf> yeah i mean the text with english words
[10:13:54] <TheSchaf> not the key
[10:13:58] <sonOfRa> "xor encryption" is, unless the key is *truly random* (not generated from /dev/{u}random), and *exactly as long as the plaintext*, insecure. Completely and utterly.
[10:13:58] <TheSchaf> https://github.com/hellman/xortool
[10:14:04] <TinoDidriksen> Especially if you know the key is always 64 bytes.
[10:14:20] <lh_ideapad> geordi, << "meow"
[10:14:20] <17SABJLAH> meow
[10:14:20] <TheSchaf> that is a tool that does this for example
[10:14:21] <geordi> meow
[10:14:21] <77FABEKPG> meow
[10:14:24] <lh_ideapad> yay!
[10:14:34] <lh_ideapad> what's going on with geordi ?
[10:14:45] <Svitkona> ??
[10:14:46] <quarterback> TheSchaf, If the text contains 500 words of pure english and the key can be "FE&!23@aNI^;" . You say it can be broken in seconds?
[10:14:51] <Svitkona> geordi, << 1
[10:14:52] <geordi> 1
[10:14:52] <17SABJLAH> 1
[10:14:52] <77FABEKPG> 1
[10:14:52] <TheSchaf> yes
[10:14:55] <Svitkona> ???
[10:14:59] <TinoDidriksen> Why are there multiple geordis again...
[10:15:00] <sonOfRa> quarterback: yes, that is very likely
[10:15:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o TinoDidriksen
[10:15:13] *** 17SABJLAH was kicked by TinoDidriksen (17SABJLAH)
[10:15:18] *** 77FABEKPG was kicked by TinoDidriksen (77FABEKPG)
[10:15:26] *** TinoDidriksen sets mode: -o TinoDidriksen
[10:15:41] <TheSchaf> for example by using this tool: https://github.com/hellman/xortool
[10:16:16] <TinoDidriksen> quarterback, you've asked about this a year ago as well. Yes, XOR with cipher much smaller than plaintext is easily defeated.
[10:16:18] <TheSchaf> test it yourself, do "xortool your_encrypted_stuff -l 64 -c 20" or something
[10:16:34] <quarterback> TheSchaf, The thing is that with these xor tools, its not always possible to decode every xor cipher. Because some texts can have multiple keys.
[10:16:44] <TheSchaf> thats not what you asked
[10:17:23] <sonOfRa> quarterback: if you're interested in the background on this, I'd recommend reading "Understanding Cryptography" by Paar/Pelzl. The first chapter focuses on historic cryptography, and why and how it is easy to break
[10:18:20] <TheSchaf> recently beaten a bootloader that used some basic xor to hide what it actually does
[10:18:29] <quarterback> sonOfRa, For me, it took about 40 seconds with just alphabetic keys to decode a 500 word text. I wanted to try random 64 byte keys but I think it would take more than a few minutes..I'm guessing hours.
[10:18:30] <TheSchaf> was pretty easy :P
[10:18:54] <TheSchaf> the values of the key doesn't influence the duration
[10:19:17] <sonOfRa> Are you *guessing* randomly, or actually performing statistical analysis on the ciphertext?
[10:19:34] <sonOfRa> Because if you're guessing randomly, 64 bytes of key is far outside of the space for practical guessing.
[10:19:56] <quarterback> TheSchaf, Random keys can be calculated easily because almost any english text contains commonly used english words like "The", "you", "could", "would", "stop", "bring". etc
[10:20:19] <TinoDidriksen> ...yes, we just said that.
[10:20:30] <quarterback> sonOfRa, I'm referring to totally random 64 byte keys.
[10:20:49] <TheSchaf> the content of the key does not matter if you do it properly
[10:20:51] <sonOfRa> quarterback: no I mean, when trying to *break* it, are you "guessing" at the keys, or are you analyzing the ciphertext
[10:20:58] <TheSchaf> the content of the encrypted text matters
[10:21:55] <quarterback> sonOfRa, I'm calculating keys which can decode cipher text to give a few english words in it, so that I can guess its the original text.
[10:23:14] <quarterback> sonOfRa, The other way is to search words in every decoded messages in a dictionary and determine if its the original message as the original message would contain more than half english words.
[10:23:18] <TinoDidriksen> So you're reimplementing the linked tool.
[10:23:29] <TheSchaf> except worse bceause the tool works on characters, not words
[10:23:38] <quarterback> TinoDidriksen, The tool is written in python. I'm doing it in C++.
[10:23:53] <TheSchaf> the tool assume for example that ' ' is the most likely character for texts
[10:24:47] <TheSchaf> for binary data, you'd usually use 0
[10:25:06] <markand> hey guys
[10:25:13] <markand> do you do a sed s/-2018/-2019/ in your source file licenses or you only update once you edit an existing file?
[10:25:30] <TheSchaf> existing file edit
[10:25:54] <TinoDidriksen> I replace in all files. Just easier than having to remember each one.
[10:26:16] <TheSchaf> well, i guess i have too many files for that
[10:26:57] <TinoDidriksen> Not that it'll matter. Life + 50 years is unlikely to change any time soon, so whether copyright is from 2010 or 2019, it's the same to me.
[10:27:18] <TheSchaf> mh
[10:27:26] <TheSchaf> but doesn't that depend on $country?
[10:28:10] <TinoDidriksen> Some have longer (life + 70), but life + 50 is the basis defined in the very widely used Berne Convention.
[10:28:13] <sonOfRa> It does, but most licenses just assume operation in the US, except for a few exceptions like EUPL
[10:28:59] <TheSchaf> also what if the copyright applies to a company not a person
[10:29:22] <TheSchaf> then it is not bound to the life of the company, or?
[10:29:22] <TinoDidriksen> It can't.
[10:30:21] <TinoDidriksen> It has to reside with some person at point of authorship. It can then be transferred to a company, but pretty sure the expiration follows the persons involved.
[10:30:36] <TheSchaf> so what does // Copyright 2018 Foo Corp. do?
[10:30:54] <TheSchaf> mhh
[10:31:09] <TinoDidriksen> In EU, not much more than say what company to contact.
[10:31:42] <TinoDidriksen> I'd like copyright to be reduced to 20 years (not life + 20) with possibility of 20 year extension upon request. But that's unlikely to happen.
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[10:32:16] <TheSchaf> 20 years seems short
[10:32:27] <TheSchaf> also whenever there is a way to extend it, it will be abused anyway
[10:32:35] <quarterback> How long are copyrights valid in your country?
[10:32:45] <TinoDidriksen> Life + 70
[10:33:03] <quarterback> How many years is Life + 70?
[10:33:10] <TinoDidriksen> Your whole life, plus 70.
[10:33:24] <TinoDidriksen> Until 70 years after your death.
[10:33:42] <quarterback> Wow, too long
[10:33:48] <TinoDidriksen> That's normal.
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[10:34:41] <TheSchaf> that makes me wonder
[10:34:45] <TheSchaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konami_Corp._v._Roxor_Games_Inc.
[10:34:49] <TheSchaf> if that patent is now expired or not
[10:34:51] <TinoDidriksen> 20 years is enough, imo. If you're still coasting on something you did 20 years ago, you've lost your edge. Patents last 20 years, and that works.
[10:34:59] <quarterback> Who decides these terms of duration of copyright of software?
[10:35:07] <Svitkona> rich people
[10:35:09] <TheSchaf> essentially konami had a patent on music games where you have to press an input button to the rhythm or something
[10:35:12] <TheSchaf> killing the whole genre
[10:36:13] <TinoDidriksen> quarterback, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
[10:36:41] <TinoDidriksen> Berne is the basis - many countries have stronger laws.
[10:37:05] <Ingersol> mickie mouse still not free?
[10:37:36] <quarterback> TinoDidriksen, India doesn't follow these conventions or it follows them on their own terms. In indian law, there are no copyrights on software.
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[10:38:03] <TinoDidriksen> India ratified Berne.
[10:38:25] <quarterback> They say one thing and do something else.
[10:38:38] <TinoDidriksen> De Jure != De Facto, sure.
[10:38:45] <TheSchaf> don't get him ranting about india again :P
[10:39:20] <quarterback> TheSchaf, There are no copyrights on software in india, same as in Germany.
[10:39:50] <TheSchaf> that is bs
[10:40:11] <TinoDidriksen> Ingersol, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamboat_Willie#Copyright_status currently protected until 2023
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[10:40:42] <TinoDidriksen> Germany also ratified Berne.
[10:40:48] <quarterback> TheSchaf, if that software in inside a computer, then it can be considered copyrighted. Plain software on the web is not applicable for copyright in india.
[10:40:56] <TinoDidriksen> Wrong
[10:41:10] <TheSchaf> so software on the web is not inside a computer?
[10:41:14] * TheSchaf is confused
[10:42:01] <TinoDidriksen> That's just plain wrong. Software is protected by copyright in all major countries, including Germany and India. Don't know where you get the idea that it's not.
[10:42:04] <Ingersol> TinoDidriksen thanks, i bet evil mouse will change rules yet again.
[10:42:15] <quarterback> TheSchaf, Software should be inside a "manufactured" product from a factory to be considered intellectual property according to ancient indian laws.
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[10:42:30] <TinoDidriksen> No, that's patent.
[10:42:37] <TinoDidriksen> You're confusing patent with copyright.
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[10:42:56] <velco> ahaha, wtf, "ancient" software ?
[10:43:01] <TinoDidriksen> Software is not patentable in EU and most of the world, but it is absolutely copyrightable.
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[10:43:27] <quarterback> TheSchaf, Until then any copyrights are not valid in india.
[10:43:32] <TinoDidriksen> Patents
[10:43:34] <velco> the ancient indian laws from 2000 years ago :D
[10:43:45] <TinoDidriksen> Copyright, patents, and trademarks are not the same. Don't confuse them.
[10:43:57] <quarterback> velco, Well, the current laws in india are ancient compared to european laws.
[10:44:08] <velco> I'm sure.
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[10:45:27] <quarterback> We had some australoid law makers whose interpretation of technology was very poor, so they made very antique laws which are barely legal in most contexts.
[10:45:47] <velco> Who was it, Vishnu, who laid the groundwork for intellectual property rights related to software ?
[10:46:14] <escanor> Hello everyone I have two functions
[10:46:14] <velco> or Brahma maybe ? :P
[10:46:15] <escanor> void writeData(const QByteArray &data); QString writeData(QString serialCommand);
[10:46:40] <escanor> When i call the function in main writeData("X");
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[10:46:59] <escanor> I get the error of ambiguos call to function
[10:47:17] <escanor> C2668: 'MainWindow::writeData': ambiguous call to overloaded function
[10:47:33] <quarterback> velco, He is a god believed to have many incarnations. Its all a made up story from northern india.People from india came from africa, middle east and central asia, some parts of europe.
[10:48:19] <velco> I need no convincing that gods are a made up story :D
[10:49:21] <quarterback> velco, Genetic evidence shows that gods didn't create humans in india now or in ancient times.The dna of indians matches some lineages in other parts of the world.
[10:49:59] <escanor> quarterback: Guys don't want to interupt but we indian have vedas as a written scriptures with are century old which
[10:50:41] <escanor> Which give the evidence of the creator which basically called gods
[10:50:45] <quarterback> escanor, They are fictional texts
[10:51:46] <escanor> quarterback: I don't want to hurt anybody's sentiment but we always derieve conclusion into going into depth of the subject
[10:52:26] <quarterback> escanor, Its okay that some people have delusions even when presented with facts.
[10:52:50] <Ingersol> escanor QByteArray has char* constructor, QString have it too. So compiler dont know which one is better in your situation.
[10:53:14] <escanor> Ingersol: How can i resolve :)
[10:54:36] <escanor> quarterback: Just for example we have Natyashastra
[10:54:37] <escanor> The text consists of 36 chapters with a cumulative total of 6000 poetic verses describing performance arts. The subjects covered by the treatise include dramatic composition, structure of a play and the construction of a stage to host it, genres of acting, body movements, make up and costumes, role and goals of an art director, the musical scales, musical instruments and the integration of music with art performance
[10:54:41] <Ingersol> escanor if you want to use QString versiopn, make call like this Ж writeData(QString("X"))
[10:54:53] <quarterback> escanor, Some people believe their imaginary god lives inside Mount kailash in tibet. Its solid rock from outside covered with snow. This is what a delusion is like.
[10:55:11] <escanor> Ingersol: thanks
[10:55:48] <escanor> quarterback: We know his lord shiva. the ultimate yogi.
[10:56:24] <Ingersol> well, i'd better not understimate our ancestors, they were almost clever as we are and multiple things were invented thousands years ago. however, its malicious offtopic
[10:56:42] <escanor> The modern yoga(exercise) which people do is imparted by him
[10:57:28] <escanor> Yoga is very broad concept but in today's world it is merely accumulated in the form of exercise
[10:57:31] <velco> Ingersol, our ancestors were very poorly educated and knew almost nothing about the world
[10:57:53] <TinoDidriksen> Ok, enough off topic. Copyright is a least software related. Religion is not.
[10:58:05] <velco> Ingersol, whatever that could do was accumulated trial and error, spanning centuries
[10:59:11] <escanor> velco: The real problem is they have been edited so many time by so many people that we find it very hard to believe it
[10:59:54] <escanor> For example in previous time people said man could fly people would laugh but today its reality
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[11:00:36] <quarterback> escanor, People falsified history as it was edited so many times in india. So you see so many fake claims that somebody from india was able to calculate orbits of saturn or jupiter without a telescope. Its not just religion, science is fake too.
[11:00:47] * Ingersol writing programs using "trial and error" paradigm
[11:01:14] <escanor> Similarly vedas describe certain advance topic which are far beyond our imagination and are yet to be proved
[11:01:22] <TinoDidriksen> Enough with random off topic, escanor and quarterback.
[11:01:41] <escanor> TinoDidriksen: Ok sorry
[11:02:21] <escanor> quarterback: If you are interested we can discuss in private. :)
[11:02:28] <Ingersol> :)
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[11:05:38] <TheSchaf> seems to be one of these days were some internal system at work has issues and i cannot complete my work
[11:06:14] <TheSchaf> wonder how many hours of work are lost today :)
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[11:07:02] <TheSchaf> did you guys have situations like this? e.g. no internet
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[11:08:18] <TinoDidriksen> Anyone who's worked with larger organizations have run into such situations.
[11:08:40] <Ingersol> yep. worked in the company where internet was limited to single room.
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[11:15:19] <TheSchaf> meh
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[12:51:02] <cbreak> quarterback: if you have two blocks xored with the same key, just xor them, and you've removed the key
[12:51:19] <cbreak> then you have the xor of two english text fragments
[12:51:46] <cbreak> breaking that should be significantly easier with differential cryptoanalysis
[12:51:52] <cbreak> even with statistics
[12:52:14] <quarterback> cbreak, Thinking about your idea.
[12:54:05] <cbreak> quarterback: not my idea. I heard about it in security class
[12:54:07] <quarterback> cbreak, I was thinking if char based analysis in a decoded message is better than word based.
[12:54:21] <cbreak> it's not
[12:54:29] <cbreak> words have significantly less entropy
[12:54:36] <quarterback> cbreak, Dictionary lookups seem easy and a dictionary attack usually works.
[12:54:51] <cbreak> just pick a word that will likely be in the text
[12:55:07] <cbreak> shift it over the xor of the two text blocks
[12:55:18] <quarterback> cbreak, Yes, a set of 300 to 500 words would be enough I think to judge if a text is in english.
[12:55:20] <cbreak> and if the result is an other valid-ish word, you might have found something
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[12:57:55] <Ingersol> as far as i know, digrams are pretty universal, they dont need word dictionary and exploit native language statistic
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[13:02:23] <cbreak> that makes sense, at least for languages with similar roots
[13:02:40] <quarterback> Ingersol, What do you mean by digrams?
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[13:05:30] <quarterback> Ingersol, That is in language processing.its not necessary in decryption because. There is less than 0.0001% probability that a decoded message has valid words to show a false positive.
[13:05:43] <Ingersol> quarterback i dont know english termin, "part of word than have few letters"
[13:06:22] <quarterback> Ingersol, It means a sequence of two letters or words.
[13:06:32] <Ingersol> quarterback if message havent whitespace words processing will be fucked up
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[13:07:20] <Ingersol> well, its all about frequency analysis and should be done even with word-wide processing as system should check global entropy
[13:08:30] <TheSchaf> i don't know why we are still talking about XOR
[13:08:36] <TheSchaf> for transport encryption, there is much nicer methods
[13:08:38] <quarterback> Ingersol, I was checking total size of valid words found compared to size of decoded message. if its greater than say 0.5 then we found a valid original message.
[13:08:56] <TheSchaf> for obfuscation, it is trivial to beat
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[13:10:33] <quarterback> Ingersol, Almost all decoded messages with various keys always had whitespace characters.
[13:11:16] <TheSchaf> like i said hours ago, the usual assumption is that whitespace is the most frequent character when you have text and 0 is the most frequent value when you have data
[13:11:34] <TheSchaf> then you guess the key length and xor over all blocks of input that you have
[13:11:44] <quarterback> TheSchaf, That seems like a assumption which may not work all the time.
[13:12:15] <quarterback> brb
[13:12:24] <TheSchaf> just read the source of the tool that i linked ages ago
[13:12:41] <TheSchaf> it has the common way of deciphering XOR'ed stuff, even with bruteforcing capabilities
[13:13:00] <velco> substitution ciphers in general are easy to crack
[13:13:46] <TheSchaf> most "XORs" that I encounter these days have some other component, like the index of the value or some logic with other close bytes
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[13:15:01] <TheSchaf> real world example: mem[(0x2000 << 4) + di] = (byte)((~(mem[(0x2000 << 4) + di] + 7)) ^ (cx & 0xFF));
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[13:15:18] <TheSchaf> where di is going from 0 to len and cx from len to 0
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[13:18:57] <quarterback> TheSchaf, Doing any bit shifting and adding is going to make decryption harder and cpu intensive.
[13:19:11] <quarterback> TheSchaf, It seems like TEA algorithm
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[13:27:19] <seni> I'm trying to use a templated class which is only meant for float/double types with uint8_t. When compiling I'm getting an "undefined reference to Class<unsigned char>::method" error. I don't get why, is it possible to set restrictions on the allowed types that a template may be instantiated with?
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[13:31:18] <Svitkona> are you defining it outside the header file?
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[13:34:23] <seni> Svitkona: I'm instantiating the templated class outside of the header file yes.
[13:34:47] <Svitkona> but is the class defined in the header file?
[13:35:17] <seni> yes, with a cc
[13:35:28] <Svitkona> well
[13:35:31] <Svitkona> what you're asking for is possible
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[13:35:41] <Svitkona> as for why what you have isn't working, it's hard to say much without seeing code
[13:35:46] <Svitkona> { Foo<int> f; } template<typename T> struct Foo { static_assert(std::is_same_v<T, float> || std::is_same_v<T, double>, "Boo"); };
[13:35:46] <geordi> error: static assertion failed: Boo
[13:35:56] <Svitkona> { Foo<float> f1; Foo<double> f2; } template<typename T> struct Foo { static_assert(std::is_same_v<T, float> || std::is_same_v<T, double>, "Boo"); };
[13:35:57] <geordi> <no output>
[13:36:08] <Svitkona> like this
[13:36:43] <Aleric> seni: did you put the definition of the method also in the header? Everything of a template should be defined in a header. There is no .cc file for it.
[13:36:47] <seni> no I am not asking how one could set the restrictions. I'm saying I want to use a different type, but it's not working, and I'm wondering why
[13:37:19] <seni> let me share the code
[13:38:45] <seni> this is the class in question: https://github.com/kaldi-asr/kaldi/blob/master/src/cudamatrix/cu-matrix.h#L738
[13:39:22] <seni> this is a function that can't be found when I initialize like `CuMatrix<uint8_t> mat(#num1, #num2);` https://github.com/kaldi-asr/kaldi/blob/master/src/cudamatrix/cu-matrix.cc#L48
[13:40:00] <Svitkona> it's not defined in the header
[13:40:28] <seni> oh I think I got it. I need to instantiate the templates in the cc file
[13:41:08] <seni> makes sense now ;)
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[13:46:09] <seni> but I still don't get it, in the cc file a lot of the methods are instantiated with float and double. but not all of them. for example not `Resize` (first method in the file). why would one not need to instantiate all of them?
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[13:49:49] <Aleric> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/495021/why-can-templates-only-be-implemented-in-the-header-file
[13:50:35] <Aleric> https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/48575/%2FArticles%2F48575%2FHow-to-define-a-template-class-in-a-h-file-and-imp
[13:50:40] <Aleric> ^^ seni
[13:50:43] <seni> thank you
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[13:53:24] <ville> seni: they are definetly doing something non-obvious there
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[13:53:56] <seni> I've anyway realized I'm using the wrong class :D
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[15:15:53] <amosbird> https://la.wentropy.com/Ua_3
[15:16:05] <amosbird> hmm, how does this work? static int test(...); \
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[15:19:56] <Aleric> To test if some class has a certain member.
[15:20:37] <Svitkona> it's a variadic function
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[15:25:31] <amosbird> how is that 0 casting to decltype(&C::Member)?
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[15:28:09] <Svitkona> that doesn't seem to be what it's doing
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[16:00:50] <urdh> amosbird: 0 is a null pointer constant
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[16:01:27] <amosbird> oh
[16:01:29] <amosbird> thanks
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[16:07:41] <rokups> would anyone be so kind and take a look and maybe see why second call is not constexpr while first one is? https://ideone.com/tZfDAU
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[16:08:47] <urdh> rokups: ‘*(s + (((sizetype)(idx * 3ul)) + 2u))’ is not a constant expression
[16:09:07] <dzejrou> because a constexpr function is only guaranteed to be evaluated at compile time if you assign its result to a constexpr variable
[16:09:10] <rokups> i can read errors :) my guess is that when `find_pattern2()` is evaluated - s parameter is no longer constexpr because that function is not constexpr, but im not sure
[16:09:42] <rokups> is my assumption correct?
[16:10:04] <urdh> the real answer of course is that your first call isn't constexpr either
[16:10:22] <rokups> it does evaluate at compile time though
[16:10:25] <urdh> (but it's not evaluated at compile-time, so the compiler doesn't have to complain)
[16:10:51] <rokups> oh
[16:11:38] <rokups> is it even possible to access some character in character array and have it constexpr?
[16:14:06] <urdh> sure: https://godbolt.org/z/zwJr_W
[16:14:20] <urdh> (but you have a const char*, not an array of char)
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[16:15:09] <rokups> ill try to make it char array all the way
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[16:19:10] <rokups> it still insists that passed pattern is not constexpr. now i have no theory. https://godbolt.org/z/476SfV
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[16:25:33] <Svitkona> it's s that's not constexpr
[16:25:38] <urdh> well, the function isn't constexpr (and cannot be), so the argument cannot possibly be passed at compile-time
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[16:26:26] <rokups> so now my initial theory is correct. i guess its not possible to get this convenience of avoiding extra function call here eh?
[16:26:41] <urdh> completely depends on what your function looks like
[16:26:55] <urdh> obviously if you're printing stuff inside find_pattern, then no
[16:27:17] <urdh> but if find_pattern can be constexpr too I don't see why it shouldn't work
[16:27:28] <rokups> find_pattern() can not be constexpr
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[16:28:04] <urdh> then no
[16:28:25] <urdh> (unless you pass the pattern as a template parameter, which isn't trivial when it's a string)
[16:28:26] <rokups> oh well. thanks
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[16:37:06] <markand> is it guaranteed that unsigned long long == uint64_t ? or uintmax_t ?
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[16:38:50] <urdh> no
[16:39:06] <dzejrou> what would be the point of the typedef if either was true?
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[16:41:26] <velco> points can be many, including abstracting the concrete underlying type
[16:42:48] <velco> it's not guaranteed, because implementation may define extended integer types
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[16:57:59] <urdh> or rather, because "unsigned long long" is _at least_ 64 bits
[16:58:18] <urdh> (in the case of uint64_t)
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[17:02:59] <velco> yeah, and uint64_t may not exist too
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[17:15:44] <samik> Is it possible to parse an empty string from CSV string/file inputstream by setting a locale which recognizes , as whitespace character?
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[17:16:51] <TinoDidriksen> std::getline() can be set to recognize any character as delimiter and will happily read empty strings, but CSV is a bit more complex than that since that , may be inside a quoted value.
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[17:17:52] <samik> I used std::quoted for that, but it also has some quirks apperently Like for "field1,,field3" stream >> field1 >> field2 >> field3
[17:18:11] <samik> oops
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[17:45:25] <samik> So this is a test case https://wandbox.org/permlink/tbBO4MygPj0FYmm0
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[17:45:45] <samik> The first one is working, but the second one doesn't
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[17:46:33] <amosbird> is it possible to define a class's ctor as weak symbol and dlopen the implementation at runtime?
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[17:54:00] <quarterback> What is the fastest way to compare alphabetical ordering of strings? Are std::strings and const char* similar in comparison times? An example is str1 < str2 or str1>str2 or str1==str2
[17:54:01] <samik> Also in general, why does extracting "test\"space space\"" yields (test"space) as the first token?
[17:54:24] <samik> Should it give the whole string?
[17:54:36] <samik> Shouldn't*
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[17:55:57] <samik> I mean extracting with std::quoted()*
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[17:56:30] <kalven> quarterback: yes, they will be similar in times. == might be faster for std::string if it has an early exit for strings of differing lengths
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[17:57:26] <quarterback> kalven, is < or > comparison similar in std::string and const char* strings?
[17:57:53] <kalven> quarterback: yes
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[17:59:21] <samik> I probably need to write a custom stream with extraction operator for properly parsing CSV right?
[17:59:22] <quarterback> kalven, Why is that most string comparisons in existing c++ code use const char* type strings rather than std::string?
[18:00:04] <TinoDidriksen> They don't.
[18:00:15] <kalven> quarterback: that's not my experience. the code I work with uses std::string or string_view, char* is rare.
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[18:00:59] <TinoDidriksen> string_view is great. I've converted codebases from char* to string_view, and it's just so much better.
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[18:01:11] <blackpawn> what's the TLDR on string_view?
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[18:01:32] <quarterback> I have to look into string_view.
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[18:01:43] <blackpawn> yeah i haven't used it yet
[18:01:46] <kalven> blackpawn: it's basically just a const char* and a length.
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[18:02:02] <blackpawn> i see. so it doesn't own the storage
[18:02:05] <kalven> with constructors from std::string and const char*
[18:02:47] <blackpawn> so i guess you'd have all your APIs accept string_view instead of const char* and std::string
[18:02:56] <blackpawn> and internally store std::string
[18:03:14] <blackpawn> is that right?
[18:03:43] <kalven> wellllllllllll it depends
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[18:05:05] <blackpawn> don't toy with me kalven
[18:05:06] <blackpawn> XD
[18:05:11] <kalven> if you have a function that wants to stash away that std::string for later use, it might be better to have it take the std::string directly since that opens the possibility of moving
[18:05:45] <blackpawn> yes thats true
[18:06:06] <Aleric> /me promotes blackpawn to a queen.
[18:06:14] <blackpawn> lol
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[18:06:25] <Aleric> :)
[18:06:31] <blackpawn> thanks i can glide along diagonals now
[18:06:56] <Aleric> heh - yeah... chess club for me in 1 hour.
[18:07:03] <kalven> also if you have a function that, for whatever reason, needs to get a 0-terminated string (for example, you're interfacing with some c function), then string_view could also be a pessimization
[18:07:12] <kalven> but other than that it's neat
[18:07:32] <Aleric> Moral, don't use C functions.
[18:07:35] <blackpawn> oh so string_view doesn't guarantee null termination?
[18:07:44] <blackpawn> C functions are my jam
[18:07:55] <Aleric> A string_view is just a pointer into a buffer and a length.
[18:07:59] <kalven> blackpawn: right
[18:08:09] <blackpawn> ah brutal
[18:08:14] <TinoDidriksen> string_view is great for handing out parts of a larger buffer without making separate allocations.
[18:08:27] <blackpawn> ah could be handy in parsing then.
[18:08:50] <blackpawn> hmm may have a use for it today i'll give it a spin :)
[18:09:43] * Aleric is going to make StreamBuf::xsgetn_a thread-safe.
[18:12:42] <samik> Hmm, is telling the stream to tream comma as whitespace semantically correct? In that case there should be a way to tell the stream that when the extraction destination is std::string instead of skipping consecutive whitespace parse as empty string.
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[18:13:30] <samik> treat*
[18:13:35] <kalven> std streams, making people miserable for 2 decades
[18:14:14] <samik> It sure looked easy when I started with this.
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[18:15:58] <samik> Well this doesn't compile std::getline(ss, std::quoted(s), ',')
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[18:16:39] <samik> ss being the stream and s the string
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[18:18:58] <samik> So what do you suggest? A custom stream?
[18:22:51] <kalven> samik: did you say quoted was stopping on the first space? that's not what I see: https://ideone.com/cU0zpg
[18:24:23] <blackpawn> so is there a strtok equivalent that uses string_view to be non destructive to original buffer?
[18:24:54] <samik> kalven: https://ideone.com/j5D0HH
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[18:25:53] <kalven> samik: but that input string is 'test"space space"'
[18:26:22] <kalven> it isn't quoted to begin with
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[18:27:03] <samik> Wait a second. Do I need to have the whole string quoted?
[18:27:32] <samik> I thought it'd tread only the quoted part as a group
[18:27:38] <samik> treat*
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[18:29:03] <samik> kalven: Or in order to be treated as quoted there should be whitespace before quote?
[18:29:51] <samik> Okay, what's a quoted string?
[18:30:00] <samik> according to this function?
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[18:31:34] <kalven> if you're pasing csv, isn't a column value going to be either fully quoted or not? like, "foo bar",baz and not foo "bar",baz?
[18:32:09] <samik> Well some values can have commas in them or newline even
[18:32:22] <samik> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4180 point 6
[18:32:58] <samik> But seriously, what's a quoted string for this function?
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[18:34:46] <samik> kalven: That question was in general
[18:35:26] <samik> " Also in general, why does extracting "test\"space space\"" yields (test"space) as the first token?"
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[18:35:53] <kalven> samik: I meant that your input string doesn't have a blackslash
[18:35:58] <kalven> whereas mine does
[18:36:57] <samik> but it has backslash before and after (space space), so i thought it would be picked up as a group
[18:37:58] <kalven> but it doesn't, that \" in the string literal just becomes " in the string. so your input is 'test"space space", it's not 'test\"space space\"'
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[18:38:44] <samik> Okay, but then this is working, https://ideone.com/j5D0HH
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[18:39:00] <samik> Just a space before \"space...
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[18:39:49] <kalven> right
[18:39:56] <samik> Well?
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[18:43:20] <kalven> well what?
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[18:44:59] <samik> kalven: I mean why is the (space space) part is treated as group when I put a space before it?
[18:45:33] <samik> That string too doesn't have escaped quotes inside the string?
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[18:46:29] <kalven> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/io/manip/quoted - the first >> would fall under 4.a there, since the first char isn't the delim
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[18:54:02] <samik> kalven: hm, so this function can't extract a quoted string if it has some appendages before it
[18:55:02] <kalven> is that something you have to deal with?
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[18:55:35] <Aleric> Hmm - I want write n bytes: std::streamsize const n
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[18:55:55] <Aleric> I have room in my buffer for: std::streamsize const available = egptr(type) - gptr(type);
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[18:56:12] <samik> at some places I have f1,<space>"f2,f2",f3 but that's incorrect CSV anyway
[18:56:26] <samik> that space shouldn't be there
[18:56:49] <Aleric> I have already copied 'copied' bytes, so what I really want to write is the remaining n - copied bytes.
[18:57:01] <Aleric> What I really write is: std::streamsize len = std::min(available, n - copied);
[18:57:27] <Aleric> Then I do: copied += len; at which point 'len' goes out of scope.
[18:57:49] <Aleric> Now, can I test if we reached the end of the buffer? :)
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[18:58:25] <Aleric> That means, can I test if available was equal to len.
[18:59:11] <samik> But that ,, problem is still there
[18:59:19] <Aleric> Obviously available was equal to len when available <= n - copied, as len is the minimum of those two.
[18:59:56] <Aleric> But after that I incremented copied with len... so I can't just compare available with n - copied anymore, and I don't have len either.
[19:00:22] <kalven> samik: you're probably better off just implementing a tiny parser, read char by char.
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[19:01:44] <samik> Yes, but I like row >> f1 >> f2 >> f3; syntax where f1 = int, f2 = string, f3 = double
[19:02:28] <kalven> sure, but streams kinda suck for anything that isn't the most trivial
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[19:03:26] <Aleric> Now assuming that available == len, I can get back the old value of 'copied' with 'copied - available'... In which case I could test 'available <= n - (copied - available)' .. but that is the same as 'copied <= n' which is clearly always true :/
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[19:14:19] <Aleric> Hmm - my new, thread-safe, function is four times as short as the old one :p. https://gyazo.com/a37162ceb03424b0aa7d03975a2a93ef
[19:14:30] <Aleric> But still not very easy to understand :/
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[19:16:25] <Aleric> Oh, I see a bug...
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[19:46:28] <rajrajraj> is this weird ? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/S24RBaVA/
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[20:06:12] <kalven> rajrajraj: why?
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[20:18:18] <manuelschneid3r> is it possible to define a class<T> without allocating the object?
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[20:25:36] <cbreak> manuelschneid3r: sure... typedef it
[20:26:33] <manuelschneid3r> I guess I should look up what typedef is actually doing. I though its something like an alias so far. Ty cbreak
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[20:29:09] <cbreak> manuelschneid3r: it is
[20:29:17] <cbreak> it defines a new type alias
[20:29:22] <cbreak> since you don't want an object
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[20:33:41] <gelignite> hi, i'm looking for best practice to hold and trigger 1..n camera(s) at the very same time. naive approach i came up with is to have "std::vector<Camera> cameras;" and iterate cameras, i.e. "for( auto cam : cameras ){ cam.takePicture(); }". but this would trigger the cameras sequentially. I want to capture a moving object, hence need the cameras to take the pictures at the same time.
[20:34:58] <cbreak> gelignite: use an external trigger source
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[20:43:20] <gelignite> might be a language (translation) issue but i do not fully understand you. a hardware trigger? so, whatever triggers my software (in the end) should trigger the cameras directly instead?
[20:45:34] <m_ben> gelignite: how many cameras do you want to trigger? 10-20? you probably won't even notice the delay. it's not like the for-loop takes ms
[20:46:00] <gelignite> up to 20, yes
[20:49:01] <kalven> how long does cam.takePicture() take?
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[20:54:26] <gelignite> expect it to run for too long (worst case) to do it sequentially. i'm currently planning the approach and i want to do it correctly the first time. there is no software yet, hence i cannot answer that question.
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[21:00:15] <Ameisen> What hardware are you running this on?
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[21:08:37] <gelignite> also TBD at this point. for testing/evaluation purposes (proof of concept) we use a standard computer, e.g. KINO-DH310-R10, and a single gige camera.
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[21:15:45] <gelignite> it's basically similar to this but for a different use-case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH85EkdIM2w
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[21:33:06] <cbreak> gelignite: yes, hardware trigger
[21:33:17] <cbreak> we use that at work
[21:33:22] <cbreak> many different kinds
[21:33:35] <cbreak> if you want synchronize cameras, there's nothing better
[21:35:21] <cbreak> I've made good experiences with allied vision cameras
[21:35:36] <cbreak> but some projects used canon DSLRs too
[21:37:41] <cbreak> the idea with hardware trigger is that you set up the cameras for it
[21:37:54] <cbreak> install callbacks or what ever your API requires
[21:38:01] <cbreak> and then you start triggering by some means
[21:38:17] <cbreak> you can use software triggering in a similar fashion with Allied Vision cameras
[21:38:25] <cbreak> you set up callbacks, start capturing and so on
[21:38:36] <cbreak> but images are only actually captured when you trigger it via software
[21:38:37] <gelignite> we tried a nikon d5300 but it was way too slow. the target was out of sight already when the picture was taken. like 1 second delay. :-/ now we have a gige and that is pretty accurate (with vendor's software at least)
[21:38:48] <cbreak> this is not as precise as hardware triggering, since ethernet is unreliable
[21:42:12] <cbreak> gelignite: https://www.disneyresearch.com/medusa/
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[21:52:18] <gelignite> ok, great. thank you cbreak. so I'll have to get in touch with the hardware guys to talk about that.
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[21:55:04] <cbreak> gelignite: depends
[21:55:17] <cbreak> if you don't need super precision of syncronous triggering, then software will do fine
[21:55:27] <cbreak> in the projects I was involved in, it was usually enough
[21:55:38] <cbreak> for some it wasn't
[21:55:47] <cbreak> the project I linked to used hardware triggering always though
[21:56:14] <cbreak> this is mainly for when you want to have images from exactly the same time
[21:57:55] <cbreak> gelignite: depending on your requirements, you should make sure your camera has a global shutter too
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[21:58:44] <gelignite> we faced issues with rolling shutter already
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[22:01:28] <gelignite> so, yes, global shutter is essential
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[22:04:08] <cbreak> do you know what kind of camera hardware you want?
[22:04:44] <cbreak> I've worked with a quite a few of them, but most only for a few weeks :)
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[22:07:11] <gelignite> may i pm you, cbreak?
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[22:07:34] <cbreak> sure, I guess
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[22:39:24] <Ameisen> regular pc hardware interrupts are going to have more varying latency than just a for loop by an order of magnitude.
[22:39:50] <Ameisen> But you should be using either direct hardware inbetween (like a hardware trigger) or something much lower level to handle controlling all of the cameras on a single signal.
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[22:42:05] <cbreak> I've seen three modes in machine vision cameras: self-triggering (for fixed frame rate acquisition), external triggering (via hardware or software) or free range mode (acquire images as fast as possible)
[22:42:21] <cbreak> if you don't have syncronity requirements, self triggering works fine, i.e. to get movies
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[22:42:52] <cbreak> if you want to make images at certain specific times but don't care about jitter much, then software triggering works fine. That's what I've used most of the time
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[23:18:17] <gelignite> thanks everyone. I'll check out the hardware trigger approach then. good night.
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   January 8, 2019  
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