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   January 6, 2019
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[00:01:50] <ville> LunarJetman: as a continuation i thought it would be fair to provide you with some source of
[00:02:13] <ville> if you're going to reject odin's numbers as irrelevant then thank you for participating
[00:03:59] <LunarJetman> time for soup.
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[00:12:05] <kalven> where's the luajit killer/
[00:12:37] <LunarJetman> on the backlog
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[00:15:30] <kalven> kek
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[08:41:11] <quarterback> When compiling a program, I get a Expression: vector out of range error in Visualstudio...\....\include\vector at line 1733. How to fix this?
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[08:45:34] <kalven> sounds more like a runtime error
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[08:47:05] <quarterback> I didn't get the same error in G++ in MINGW
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[08:47:24] <quarterback> Its a runtime error. There are no errors during compilation, in VS.
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[08:51:45] <kalven> run your program in the debugger and find out what's wrong
[08:54:35] <rajrajraj> I don't understand why c++ jobs are so less in india
[08:55:16] <rajrajraj> People see me as c++ and they start whispering that there is a guy from c++ for the interview
[08:55:54] <rajrajraj> I am like what the heck. Is it a crime to be from c++ background.
[08:56:29] <quarterback> kalven, Fixed it, there was a possible index out of range in a vector situation.
[08:56:57] <Svitkona> have you considered starting a blog
[08:57:07] <rajrajraj> No
[08:57:46] <Svitkona> i guess why bother when this channel is basically your personal blog
[08:58:24] <rajrajraj> Blog is slow. And this channel is not my personal blog
[08:58:34] <rajrajraj> I just share experiences here
[08:59:08] <quarterback> rajrajraj, Put some moolah into the channel. Write code and post it here rather than rambling about your thoughts.
[08:59:57] <rajrajraj> What's moolah
[09:00:21] <quarterback> rajrajraj, Currency
[09:00:48] <rajrajraj> Ok
[09:00:52] <quarterback> I think most people are interested in discussing code, algorithms or errors.
[09:01:07] <rajrajraj> Not interviews?
[09:03:43] <quarterback> kalven, It seems visual studio has stringent checks than G++ for detecting runtime errors.
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[09:17:33] <quarterback> rajrajraj, Its because indian women can't program in C++ and women are higher in the food chain there.
[09:17:40] <kalven> quarterback: I'd recommend also trying with address sanitizer for g++
[09:18:10] <quarterback> kalven, Thanks.
[09:19:38] <nblade42> The MSVC C++ debug runtime includes checks for things like out of range, improper use of iterators, and so on. If you compile in release mode, the errors will 'go away', of course your code will still be wrong if you are actually going out of bounds.
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[09:21:56] <quarterback> nblade42, Its good to have those runtime checks.
[09:22:03] <nblade42> quarterback: You might be able to get some similar checks (but not all) in libstdc++ by defining _GLIBCXX_DEBUG while compiling your code. See https://stackoverflow.com/questions/8181887/bound-checking-of-stdarray-in-debug-version-of-gcc
[09:22:31] <nblade42> libstdc++ is the library used when you compile C++ code with g++
[09:22:57] <quarterback> nblade42, Previously I used to compile in debug mode and later switch to release mode when the program is nearly complete. I will try that too, thanks.
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[09:43:02] <quarterback> rajrajraj, People in india are generally dishonest, they make up stories and tell lies everyday and spread rumors.
[09:43:27] <quarterback> rajrajraj, Don't worry about what they gossip about you or others.
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[11:03:36] <amosbird> Hello, when adding a customized ctor to a struct Foo : std::vector<NonCopyData>, I got the copy ctor is implicitly deleted because the default definition would be ill-formed
[11:03:39] <amosbird> why is that happening
[11:04:04] <amosbird> without explicit ctor it works fine
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[11:05:38] <amosbird> wow, it's in fact also related to the customized dtor.
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[11:05:53] <amosbird> is it somehow related with POD and non-POD? how can I fix that
[11:08:52] <amosbird> hmm, have to provide a default move ctor :)
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[11:21:57] <cbreak> amosbird: non copyable data is not copyable
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[12:23:40] <chaosfisch> What's a good way to see the used memory of datastructures in C++? I've tried valgrind's massif but the result is rather disappointing.
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[12:26:06] <veverak> that is one thing that I am missing in C++
[12:26:07] <chaosfisch> My main problem currently is that I have a bidirectional graph (using boost graph) with ~30k vertices and ~8kk edges and it uses already >5G of memory.
[12:26:21] <veverak> standartized api to get memory usage of various things :)
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[12:29:49] <chaosfisch> veverak: do you know a way to at least print the used memory of a specific "object" (e.g. an unordered_map)?
[12:31:58] <veverak> nope
[12:32:03] <veverak> you can use 'sizeof' to get memory usage of specific type
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[12:32:19] <veverak> sizeof(map) + sizeof(map::value_type)*map.size();
[12:32:31] <veverak> gives some estimate, but the reallity is worse propably
[12:33:10] <veverak> (or, in reallity the memory footprint is bigger, because unordered_map uses custom 'nodes' to hold the data in I think)
[12:35:28] <Ingersol> chaosfisch what about custom allocator?
[12:36:36] <Ingersol> with logging
[12:36:58] <chaosfisch> Ingersol: I've never used a custom allocator, so don't know much about it. I'd assume it has a callback for everytime allocation happens?
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[12:44:08] <Ingersol> it has things to implement, but overall you can get snapshot log of allocs/deallocs every time you want it
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[12:44:56] <Ingersol> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/438515/how-to-track-memory-allocations-in-c-especially-new-delete
[12:46:29] <Ingersol> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14956176/logging-allocator-for-stdcontainers
[12:46:38] <cbreak> you can make "unit" tests
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[13:00:19] <veverak> Ingersol: cool idea
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[13:02:48] <Boobie> Windows: https://github.com/milostosic/MTuner (Linux port WIP)
[13:02:53] <Boobie> Linux: https://github.com/KDE/heaptrack
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[13:09:30] <Ingersol> Boobie thanks, looks promising
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[13:12:58] <veverak> nice
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[14:21:41] <amosbird> wtf
[14:21:43] <amosbird> https://la.wentropy.com/dxkU
[14:22:06] <amosbird> why is only unsigned int x - 1 overflowed?
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[14:28:07] <quarterback> x can be 0, just add a condition if (x-1) { // write code here }
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[14:31:16] <amosbird> hmm, cannot find any standard backing this
[14:31:21] <amosbird> why is unsigned int special?
[14:34:17] <quarterback> unsigned int can't be negative. This is a error if you use Visual C++ as it would catch potential errors.
[14:34:30] <shake> https://bit.ly/2QoUfdn
[14:34:54] <shake> amosbird: take a look at this. The relevant section I think can be found here: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/implicit_conversion
[14:35:16] <shake> (check the section "Integral promotion")
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[14:35:47] <shake> oh and you should hit the play button on the c++ insights link ;)
[14:36:20] <amosbird> shake: nice
[14:36:26] <amosbird> hmm, but why unsigned long is fine?
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[14:40:18] <shake> I would assume that this is a weird edge case/UB that happens to work.. but I can't really point my finger on it
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[14:45:01] <nblade42> amosbird: Just because it appears to work does not mean it is OK. It probably happens to work on systems where unsigned long is the same size as a pointer.
[14:45:34] <amosbird> nblade42: "It probably happens" how so?
[14:45:44] <amosbird> what's special of having size of a pointer?
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[14:49:30] <amosbird> you mean that the address of pointer overflows happen to make it work?
[14:49:56] <T`aZ> shake: isn't it simply UB to have signed underflow ?
[14:50:07] <nblade42> The operation a[x] is the same as *(a + x). In your example x is (unsigned long)-1, so the expression in parens is probably well defined, same as (a - 1), so probably it happens to be OK (no UB in case sizeof(unsigned long) == sizeof(int*))).
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[14:50:23] <amosbird> yeah
[14:50:25] <amosbird> thanks
[14:50:35] <amosbird> but that's a UB. i see
[14:51:08] <nblade42> Overflowing unsigned integers is not UB. It is fine.
[14:51:18] <T`aZ> but it's signed
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[14:51:59] <amosbird> pointer overflow is UB
[14:52:08] <nblade42> But overflowing pointers is probably technically UB, even though they are almost certainly represented in the machine code as unsigned integers, so it probably 'has' to work. I didn't see it being caught by GCC's ubsan, but that doesn't mean it's OK either.
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[14:52:28] <amosbird> nblade42: exactly, thank you
[14:53:17] <nblade42> UB just means the compiler doesn't need to support it. It could be fine or it could generate invalid code or do strange things. Best to avoid what you demonstrated unless you have a specific need for it.
[14:53:26] <amosbird> cool
[14:53:52] <amosbird> it's a bit funny that UB is both undefined behavior and unspecified behavior
[14:54:09] <nblade42> UB is an abbreviation for 'undefined behavior'
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[14:57:23] <amosbird> No two signed integer types shall have the same rank, even if they have the same representation.
[14:57:27] <amosbird> what's the point of this rule?
[14:58:21] <nblade42> The Standard also talks about 'unspecified behavior' but when someone on the Net says UB she means 'undefined behavior'. Also when the Standard talks about unspecified behavior I don't see them actually using the word 'behavior' most of the time or ever. E.g. "Either A is sequenced before B or B is sequenced before A, but it is unspecified which."
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[15:00:17] <quarterback> amosbird, Relying on compile type conversions is bad practice. You might want to avoid that.
[15:00:52] <quarterback> compile time*
[15:02:06] <quarterback> Its possible c++ allows many automatic conversions but that may lead to ambiguous program paths.
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[15:11:35] <SlashLife> amosbird: Basically it means that even while int and long may be the same size and support the same set of numbers, using the same representation (as is allowed by INT_MAX <= LONG_MAX), they must not be the same type, and for conversions it will always be assumed that int < long.
[15:12:18] <amosbird> what's the motivation behind? for portabliity?
[15:12:27] <SlashLife> amosbird: If this was not guaranteed, int f(int) { return 23; } int f(long) { return 42; } would not be portable, as it might violate the ODR.
[15:13:01] <amosbird> ok
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[15:20:26] <veverak> hmm
[15:20:31] <veverak> how do you profile
[15:20:37] <veverak> O0/O1/O2/O3? all of them?
[15:20:59] <veverak> I fee like I want good perf at Og/O3
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[15:23:41] <cbreak> veverak: profiling at O0 is irrelevant
[15:25:11] <veverak> yeah
[15:25:18] <veverak> Og seems relevant however
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[15:28:11] <cbreak> what matters is what is used in production
[15:29:12] <veverak> yup, but slow Og means slow debugging
[15:29:23] <cbreak> or I guess in development, if you want to increase performance of that... yes...
[15:29:29] <cbreak> but you can debug in release mode too
[15:29:42] <veverak> that is problematic in it's own way...
[15:29:59] <veverak> but, hmm, there is a way to compile different .cpp units with different O levels ?
[15:30:03] <cbreak> with some bugs you don't have a choice :)
[15:30:09] <cbreak> no
[15:30:15] <cbreak> that makes no sense at all
[15:30:27] <cbreak> what point is debug mode if you're not running it in release?
[15:30:33] <symm-> it should be possible to compile each .cpp with its own settings
[15:30:40] <veverak> symm-: I thought so
[15:30:47] <veverak> cbreak: wat?
[15:31:08] <cbreak> having different .cpp for different optimization levels is ... completely weird
[15:31:21] <veverak> not really
[15:31:34] <cbreak> just imagine you debug some debug.cpp file...
[15:31:38] <cbreak> and then you ship releasemode.cpp
[15:31:43] <cbreak> ... what's the use of that?
[15:31:44] <veverak> what
[15:31:51] <veverak> but I did not said that
[15:31:55] <cbreak> I'd always debug with the same files you use for releasing
[15:32:02] <symm-> no, the same file, just compiled with different -O etc
[15:32:02] <veverak> oh, yeah it could be understood in that way
[15:32:06] <veverak> ^^
[15:32:20] <cbreak> that should be OK with sane compilers
[15:32:23] <veverak> exactly, compile the .cpp files which should be OK with O3
[15:32:27] <cbreak> but don't change macros like NDEBUG
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[15:32:33] <veverak> compile the parts you are debugging with Og
[15:32:48] <veverak> and I suppose cmake can help with that
[15:33:28] <cbreak> you might be able to set per-file properties I guess
[15:33:38] <cbreak> I'd just do that in xcode
[15:33:47] <cbreak> since it's easier, and will vanish the next time cmake runs
[15:33:58] <veverak> or compile every .cpp file as separate library and than link them together
[15:34:03] <veverak> ehmm
[15:34:03] <cbreak> :/
[15:34:07] <veverak> (if I feel mad enough)
[15:34:12] <cbreak> hello weird issues
[15:34:32] <veverak> hmm
[15:34:46] <veverak> yeah, propably
[15:35:08] <cbreak> if you use things like static initializers to register libraries, you can have the compiler decide to drop whole libs :)
[15:35:19] <cbreak> because they aren't used
[15:36:26] <quarterback> rajrajraj, Which part of india you are from?
[15:36:53] <veverak> I see
[15:36:55] <veverak> cbreak: yeah
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[15:55:15] <quarterback> Talking about low level, if you use the keywords register int when defining a variable and all registers are used up, would it be defined as int?
[15:59:31] <rajrajraj> quarterback: Gurgaon
[15:59:37] <cbreak> quarterback: no
[15:59:44] <cbreak> register doesn't do anything
[16:00:01] <rajrajraj> 14:13:02 <quarterback> rajrajraj, People in india are generally dishonest, they make up stories and tell lies everyday and spread rumors.
[16:00:05] <cbreak> it's not "when all registers are used up" it's "always"
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[16:01:08] <quarterback> cbreak, The register keywords lets you store variables in cpu registers, is it not?
[16:01:11] <Melite> How do you guys get familiar with an already existing codebase and its structure?
[16:01:25] <rajrajraj> I have been experiencing this for life. I am just helpless if I want to do anything even with right intention
[16:01:28] <Melite> Aside from just manually reading code, any tool recommendations?
[16:02:51] <quarterback> Melite, Is it OOP code or C-style modular code? Looking at individual modules and see how different modules are connected may give you a overview. It also depends on how much you can remember.
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[16:03:21] <cbreak> quarterback: no
[16:04:15] <veverak> maybe somebody here knows
[16:04:28] <veverak> I have codebase (a lots of .h files, some .cpp files)
[16:04:35] <Melite> quarterback, It is OOP. Sure, I can just look at the modules and the code, but was wondering if some visualization tool that shows a birds-eye view of the porject exists. Something like what doxygen might produce
[16:04:43] <quarterback> Melite, Draw a picture or a block diagram of different modules and components.
[16:04:45] <veverak> and I build it into one single library and link that to each unit test (each unit test is separate binary)
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[16:05:59] <veverak> is there a way to only link necessary .cpp files to each test? (i assume that would mean removing the 'library', but that is doable)
[16:06:06] <Ingersol> Melite: - get a meeting with devs and look to fancy slides. - use the cookie and the tea while browsing codebase. - talk with previous dev who sit near you and ask him strange questions. -look right into manager's eyes and dramatically say "it is bullshit. we need to rewrite it from scratch"
[16:06:29] <Melite> Ingersol, XD
[16:06:35] <quarterback> Melite, Some people use UML to visualize before producing C++ code. It seems you are doing this after code production. Best thing may be to see how different components interact. One thing is that OOD could be slightly different than functional programming in how you understand the code and its behavior.
[16:06:51] <veverak> Melite: doxygen can generate various graphs
[16:07:39] <Melite> veverak, Cool, that's what many seem to recommend, might try it!
[16:07:58] <veverak> I saw it's graph of includes of mine
[16:08:00] <veverak> madness
[16:08:02] <veverak> :)
[16:08:02] <Melite> quarterback, Thanks I'll look into UMLs.
[16:08:22] <Melite> veverak, Haha, I'm afraid to put the one I have to test!
[16:08:35] <cbreak> quarterback: you should update your knowledge every few decades or so :)
[16:08:51] <quarterback> Melite, But UML design is done before coding. I dont think it can extract any model from C++ code.
[16:09:01] <veverak> hhmm
[16:09:06] <veverak> include-what-you-use could help
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[16:11:08] <cbreak> quarterback: you think incorrectly
[16:11:11] <cbreak> UML is just a language
[16:11:18] <cbreak> you can use it to create diagrams when ever
[16:11:21] <quarterback> cbreak, I'm pretty recent with regard to C++.
[16:11:25] <cbreak> apparently not :)
[16:11:45] <cbreak> register has been deprecated for ages and was removed in C++14
[16:11:47] <quarterback> Melite, I apologize, I used UML 10 years ago. In this case, cbreak is correct.
[16:13:05] <cbreak> http://eel.is/c++draft/diff.cpp14.dcl.dcl#:register_storage_class
[16:13:07] <shake> Melite: Patricia Aas did a talk about this topic. Maybe it can give you some pointers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrXHf71lYrs
[16:14:02] <quarterback> quote from stackoverflow, "According to Herb Sutter, register is "exactly as meaningful as whitespace" and has no effect on the semantics of a C++ program."
[16:14:16] <Melite> quarterback, No worries!
[16:14:31] <Melite> shake, Cool, thanks for the suggestion!
[16:15:24] <quarterback> shake, Looks like a good talk to see.
[16:20:38] <quarterback> rajrajraj, Some people in other countries have gone made listening to lies of people from india.
[16:20:50] <quarterback> rajrajraj, Some people in other countries have gone mad listening to lies of people from india.
[16:21:53] <quarterback> rajrajraj, Do you really believe that a woman gave birth to 100 sons? Maybe your state is really insane.
[16:23:20] <rajrajraj> quarterback: i don't believe in stories. I believe in concepts behind stories.
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[16:24:03] <rajrajraj> quarterback: My situation is cause of lies. I would know this better than people anywhere
[16:24:33] <rajrajraj> Which is why I come here for facts.
[16:24:34] <quarterback> rajrajraj, Okay
[16:25:46] <rajrajraj> And I am still unsure on how can I sustain being a software engineer with c++ as my preferable language to code
[16:26:52] <rajrajraj> In India. Because anyway other countries stopped accepting Indians and I won't live without my family of 5 members. So I don't need one visa. I need 5
[16:27:16] <rajrajraj> One of them is in ICU at this moment
[16:28:40] <quarterback> rajrajraj, I don't think anybody would believe your stories.
[16:28:54] <rajrajraj> I am fine with it.
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[16:30:00] <rajrajraj> All I wanna know is how I can grow as a c++ software engineer sl
[16:30:08] <veverak> cod
[16:30:10] <veverak> e
[16:30:12] <veverak> and code
[16:30:14] <veverak> and code
[16:30:16] <veverak> and code
[16:30:18] <veverak> and code
[16:32:39] <Ingersol> old but still good advice is to helping open source c++ projects in their needs.
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[16:33:30] <shake> and make use of the knowledge of other people. read, read, read... and watch talks. also lurk on IRC and follow questions and answers. develop problem solving strategies
[16:33:36] <quarterback> Melite, Look for patterns if you can recognize in code.
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[16:37:58] <quarterback> Melite, Drawing a file structure of what includes what could also help.
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[16:54:14] <SlashLife> Melite: Best thing I think would be if you had someone familiar with the codebase to give you small things to modify. That way they could drop you in at the correct point and from there you could search your way outwards to the pieces that connect.
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[17:01:17] <quarterback> Melite, Usually, one single person may not have written a large code base. There are sometimes over 150 people who may have contributed to it. The best thing to do is work on modules or components and talk to persons who wrote them. Over time, you may know the entire code base or an important part of it relevant to you.
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[17:22:19] <Aleric> Is a compiler required to write to an atomic? Hmm... ie, atomic_int x; x = 3; x += 1; ... can that be optimized to x = 4 ?
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[17:29:31] <Aleric> Seems a RMW isn't merged :/ https://godbolt.org/z/a-Z7Ti
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[17:33:40] <Aleric> Hmm, yeah - seems store is pretty much required. Even two store(y, relaxed) after another are both done, not just the last.
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[18:21:31] <Toxtlo> Hi, I am given some larger xsd files (3k lines and more) and want to generate C++ classes from them. I need to get a good toolchain but the generated code (used xsdcxx, under ubuntu right now) dosn't look that nice to me. Anybody got experience with this?
[18:22:18] <cbreak> what's xsd?
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[18:23:14] <Toxtlo> XML schema definition files
[18:23:42] <Toxtlo> working with C++ for a few years now but pretty new to xml and this stuff
[18:24:43] <Aleric> But how are they related to C++ classes then?
[18:25:52] <Toxtlo> roughly said, you can generate c++ classes from xml elements and use them inside your c++ app
[18:25:55] <cbreak> maybe some kind of automated parser?
[18:25:59] <cbreak> weird idea
[18:26:33] <Aleric> Toxtlo: You mean to read the xml data into?
[18:27:05] <Toxtlo> thats what I want to figure out, I am given those files, a lib that uses apache xerces to process it inside the c++ code
[18:27:28] <Toxtlo> and right now I try to figure out if this is even a propper way to do this static code generation
[18:27:34] <Aleric> I wrote a library that allows one to write a class to xml and read it back into a class, but those classes aren't generated from a xsd - they are handcrafted :/
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[18:29:05] <Toxtlo> its like: have an element with some sub elements and the class gets those sub elements as members and it depends on the attributes in the xsd files on what setter/getter and even ctor the class gets
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   January 6, 2019
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