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[00:04:17] <sine0> does anyone know about the magic of reflective caustics
[00:04:41] <sine0> I have 2 identical check boxes on mine, and when I deselect the second one, the fireflys are eliminated, but im curious what im losing out on
[00:04:44] <sine0> https://imgur.com/a/R0c3Hj7
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[00:13:38] <zgu> do you have curved transparent surfaces?
[00:14:19] <zgu> also "reflective" and "refractive" are different words
[00:17:51] <sine0> oh wow I didnt see that
[00:18:29] <sine0> curved transparent? hmm only the glass has some subdiv, but it was the same when the glass was square
[00:20:27] <sine0> this is the image https://imgur.com/a/Tf9SwDs
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[00:26:47] <jaggz> what exactly are caustics anyway
[00:30:46] <ze> it's like refocusing of light reflected or refracted by things
[00:31:36] <ze> the curves concentrate it into some areas out of others
[00:32:13] <jaggz> ze, what happens with it on/off?
[00:32:14] <ze> http://youtu.be/0NXNAIqU8KM
[00:33:24] <jaggz> wow that first portrait is cool
[00:33:32] <ze> with it off the caustics won't be visible or contribute to lighting
[00:33:37] <ze> they won't be calculated
[00:34:04] <ze> in the demo with the cup of tea in that video, you'd just see the shadow and no dancing light
[00:34:05] <ze> hehe
[00:35:53] <ze> i feel like the whole technique on creating these things is shown in the middle, but maybe you could look at the paper that's from anyway
[00:36:00] <jaggz> it disables reflections/refractions??
[00:36:06] <ze> no
[00:36:36] <ze> scenery still gets reflected and refracted
[00:36:44] <ze> but light shining on stuff doesn't
[00:38:09] <jaggz> I don't understand why
[00:38:49] <jaggz> the ray trace from the camera still would hit the surface.. angle be evaluated.. etc. back to a light.. no?
[00:39:37] <ze> calculating the lighting bounces to model caustics is a whole other pass afaik
[00:39:41] <jaggz> https://lgg.epfl.ch/caustics.php
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[00:59:22] <davros> would there be any appetite in the blender community to ammend blenders' dotOBJ file import/export to include the nonstandard extention for vertex colors , e.g. choosing the same method as "meshlab" , https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/21303/how-can-i-include-vertex-color-information-in-obj-files .. just make it clear it's really not an OBJ file anymore (use a checkbox to enable writing it, and just accept re
[00:59:22] <davros> ading it when you find the vertices are extended in the manner shown there)
[01:00:54] <jaggz> I'm all for freeing up from the constraints of rigid limiting specs
[01:01:23] <jaggz> i told inkscape they should not stick with plain svg capabilities.. in irc :}
[01:01:48] <jaggz> just leave things as an option for compatibility purposes and be freed
[01:02:04] <davros> i do accept the need to avoid drift and incompatability .. just have to be intelligent about choosing how an extension is made
[01:02:39] <jaggz> that's the main and primary issue -- being very intelligent and with foresight
[01:03:03] <davros> i'm tempted to just extend the python script myself to do it for my own purposes, but it would be nice to contibute support elsewhere
[01:03:07] <jaggz> sometimes you can do something messed up that's inspirational to others who set the actual implementation/standard though
[01:03:27] <davros> OBJ is such a nice format because it's so simple. I think vertex colours are a reasonable enhancement - they're actually simpler than dealing with textures and materials
[01:03:59] <jaggz> if it's something compatible with another popular [enough] software (meshlab) .. more likely to be picked up
[01:04:17] <jaggz> I'd do it in core as an option
[01:04:35] <jaggz> might want to run the plans by devs, since they don't want to maintain someone else's lame work otherwise
[01:04:44] <davros> ok its encouraging to have a posative reply
[01:04:51] <jaggz> some credibility of your stability as a dev could help
[01:05:09] <davros> i realise when it comes to getting something *into blender* it'll take a bit more
[01:05:21] <jaggz> yeah that's why the preliminary discussions could help
[01:05:43] <davros> i'm a former console gamedevelopper i've done engines , toolchains, i've written an inhouse modeller in the past aswell
[01:06:19] <jaggz> I mean, something demonstrating your ability to contribute to future maintenance of any changes you make
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[01:06:35] <jaggz> or additions
[01:06:37] <davros> oh like "this guy is still around and reachable"
[01:06:42] <jaggz> but.. go ahead and start some posts
[01:07:02] <jaggz> a thread
[01:07:05] <jaggz> or whatever.. dunno.. :)
[01:07:18] <jaggz> good luck :)
[01:07:21] <davros> do it and put the modified script on github
[01:08:15] <jaggz> yeah if it's all python you can do it as a separate addon Import OBJ (vertex color support) as a trial
[01:08:35] <jaggz> if you're doing it for yourself, go ahead and get it out there
[01:08:47] <jaggz> maybe.. I'm not telling you what to do with your time :)
[01:09:05] <jaggz> but I have had some experience getting my efforts into core
[01:09:11] <jaggz> on 2 or 3 occasions
[01:09:25] <jaggz> would be more if I were more actively involved in this stuff
[01:09:59] <jaggz> but it's good to get more devs' feedback to guide you
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[01:10:11] <jaggz> insight into their approach and needs and wants
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[01:10:51] <davros> i need to figure out applying textures in blender aswell (from a user POV)
[01:11:02] <jaggz> heh
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[01:11:10] <davros> i'm just messing around making some simple things ("programmer graphics")
[01:11:45] <davros> so far i've had 2.82 locking up alot when opening the appropriate dialogue (not sure if there's somethign up with my system or version)
[01:11:57] <davros> thats probably why i'm reaching for the vertex colours haha
[01:12:14] <jaggz> that sounds like a bug to report
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[01:12:30] <davros> "ok i want just abit more than plain triangles.. a texture? yikes i can't apply it. . ok vertex colour.."
[01:12:55] <davros> i got it off "snap"
[01:12:59] <jaggz> why vcolors?
[01:13:08] <jaggz> is this all to get around inability to handle textures right?
[01:13:55] <davros> its just another thing thats useful to have. textures are better! but i could do untextured lowpoly art myself, but just have a little more than plain triangles
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[01:14:25] <davros> vcolours are alot better than nothing
[01:14:49] <jaggz> I'm not that familiar with it actually
[01:14:56] <jaggz> I do have them in meshlab
[01:15:02] <jaggz> prior to texturing, projecting, etc.
[01:15:23] <davros> i guess with highpoly art, scans.. they are useful for raw scans aswell
[01:15:34] <jaggz> but aside from vgroup weights in blender, I haven't really used them much..
[01:15:36] <davros> scanning from the world without any UV mapping generaterd
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[01:16:20] <jaggz> and I'm not familiar with the limitations of obj to keep any of that data (possibly none of it in the normal format?)
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[01:16:47] <jaggz> again, if it's something meshlab supports.. it'd be nice for blender to be able to pull it in and export it
[01:17:16] <davros> standard obj is named objects, vertices with 1 layer of 2d texture cordinates, normals, and 'materials' (an optional texture image with some color/reflectivity/specular setting)
[01:17:31] <jaggz> we have plenty (.. uhh.. one that I know) of alternative support in other import/exporters
[01:17:37] <jaggz> like collada support for sl/opensim :)
[01:17:56] <davros> actually what they tend to say is "OBJ doesn't need vcolours because the materials can be coloured", but if you had graduated shading etc.. you'd need to generate a massive "palette" of materials
[01:18:03] <jaggz> you could also get tips from gaia .. she (he?)'s had a lot of experience with working with the collada...
[01:19:01] <davros> i'm aware of collada's existence but never personally used it . GLTF looks encouraging (slightly neater). i've used the IQM exporter aswell, and actually that is pretty awesome
[01:19:07] <jaggz> our materials are applied to faces in blender
[01:19:09] <davros> actually i have another workaround for my situation
[01:19:17] <jaggz> how's that work with vertices in obj?
[01:19:31] <davros> i stalled on using my existing IQM reader because blender's IQM exporter demands an armature (its' for animated models)
[01:19:51] <davros> but i could make a workaround in a modified IQM eexporter.. "if the object has no armature, just make one root bone"
[01:20:08] <davros> yes OBJ has face materials, not vertex materials
[01:20:27] <davros> so again there's no real idea of blending colours across materials, as vcolos allow
[01:20:55] <davros> but again it would be better than nothing to be able to divide a surface up into different coloured regions
[01:21:01] <jaggz> "[X] Add root bone" [Tooltip: "If object is not parented, export a root bone at the object origin"]
[01:21:13] <davros> yeah
[01:21:32] <jaggz> [X, -x, Y, -y, z, -z]
[01:21:43] <davros> IQM is handy because it has some engine friendly preprocess already
[01:21:55] <davros> infact i could tell myself it would be worth adding some bones anyway
[01:22:11] <davros> building static objects that could be deformed a bit
[01:22:24] <jaggz> "[X] Run a default Rigify (lol)"
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[01:22:36] <jaggz> I've gotta go :)
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[01:22:44] <davros> ok thanks for the feedback.
[01:22:49] <jaggz> np!
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[01:38:54] <Verts> OBJ is old, I don't see any reason why people should use it outside of legacy purposes. FBX is superior in most ways, so why bother with OBJ additions?
[01:40:43] <zgu> never underestimate the extent of "legacy purposes"... we still have stuff like MP3 that has no real reason to exist anymore
[01:41:32] <zgu> and my personal favorite NMEA0183
[01:41:49] <Aritodo> ... says the guy who's chatting on irc :p
[01:42:06] <jaggz> are any o fyou in the EU?
[01:42:34] <zgu> the etats unis?
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[01:42:50] <Aritodo> personally, i dont see a reason for using something BESIDES mp3, its good quality and good size, and EVERYTHING plays it
[01:43:50] <Aritodo> only time id want to use something else is for transitional formats where i need non-lossy-compression, or if i was making a game and needed stuff as small as possible
[01:43:53] <zgu> but then you fall into the trap of "good enough" never needs to be improved
[01:44:15] <davros> OBJ is a nice simple format
[01:44:34] <zgu> and the larger problem of everything being built with the mindset that it will never need to support more than one format
[01:44:43] <Aritodo> if it is good enough, why would you need to improve?
[01:44:50] <davros> jaggz, i was in the EU until 3 weeks ago :(
[01:45:03] <Aritodo> not true, there are lots of reasons to use different formats
[01:45:33] <davros> there's a good reason for tiered levels of complexity
[01:45:39] <davros> like the reason C lives on despite C++
[01:45:49] <zgu> well just because someone thinks it's good enough for their application doesn't mean there can't be better choices for others
[01:46:22] <Aritodo> of course
[01:46:42] <davros> FBX is awesome, but OBJ gets enough done for certain applications.. its better IMO when you can use the simplest tool that acheives a given goal
[01:46:58] <Aritodo> but thats an argument against your original statement as well, that mp3 or obj has 'no real reason to exist anymore'
[01:47:13] <davros> C++ is too complex to fully replace C
[01:47:22] <davros> FBX is too complex to fully replace OBJ
[01:47:38] <davros> there's a niche for simplicity
[01:49:26] <zgu> yeah mp3 vs anything newer isn't really a simplicity issue
[01:49:52] <davros> thats a legacy issue
[01:50:03] <jaggz> hrmmm
[01:50:07] <davros> "lots of stuff uses it so we need to continue support
[01:50:31] <davros> my argument is more "i just want the simplest way to get a bunch of trianlges in, without adding loads of dependancies"
[01:50:43] <zgu> keeping a simpler older option available isn't bad, but sometimes it makes it easy for people to get lazy and not bother improving it
[01:50:49] <zgu> because it's "good enough"
[01:51:02] <davros> have you heard the saying "perfect is the enemy of good"
[01:51:11] <davros> feature creep is the opposity hazard
[01:51:19] <zgu> right
[01:51:25] <Aritodo> thats my point tho, sometimes it really IS 'good enough'
[01:52:05] <davros> so to me it's great to keep tiered things. I dont pretend OBJ is good enough *for everything*. but its good enough for waht i want to do right now. bringing in more complex dependancies would be an impedement
[01:52:17] <Aritodo> the only thing that mp3 is really missing is the option for more channels, other than that i have no desire to use any other format
[01:52:20] <zgu> yep but you can also paint yourself into a corner by assuming it will always be good enough
[01:53:02] <Aritodo> and even then, thats a pretty rare need at least for music, not much is produced in surround sound formats
[01:53:07] <Verts> I am not saying that OBJ should not be kept in blender. Far from that. Just that additional non-standard feautures such as vertex colours should not be added as suggested. MP3, for example, is great, but you WOULDN'T add additional stuff to the MP3 standard today, as that could hurt years of compatibility
[01:53:35] <Aritodo> hmm
[01:53:44] <Aritodo> BUT, the id3v2 tags were added...
[01:53:47] <Verts> "<davros> would there be any appetite in the blender community to ammend blenders' dotOBJ file import/export to include the nonstandard extention for vertex colors , e.g. choosing the same method as "meshlab" , https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/21303/how-can-i-include-vertex-color-information-in-obj-files .. just make it clear it's really not an OBJ file anymore (use a checkbox to enable writing it, and just accept re"
[01:54:32] <Aritodo> i dont think adding new features to an old format is a bad thing, just dont break the old format in old devices
[01:54:41] <Aritodo> if you do, then you have a different format
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[01:54:48] <zgu> CGNAT is "good enough" for residential ISPs so who needs IPv6
[01:55:29] <Verts> "... just make it clear it's really not an OBJ file anymore" - So it isn't the old format though. It is a new format.
[01:55:41] <davros> well if no one wants it no worries . i can just add a little "obj+" script for myself. i just thought this little enhancement (exchange with meshlab) would be nice
[01:56:01] <Verts> but FBX is "Obj+"
[01:56:03] <davros> any other suggestions for a format which is minimal but supporting triangle meshes with vertex colours
[01:56:14] <davros> FBX is too complex for what i want to do right now
[01:56:39] <davros> i literally just want xyz rgb connected by tris, nothing more
[01:57:07] <davros> it should be possible to read this in without needing some big library that handles a zillion other features
[01:57:30] <davros> FBX is OBJ++++ not OBJ+ :)
[01:58:12] <davros> there's other formats i prefered to FBX.. i have a negative spike in my head associated with it
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[01:58:23] <davros> GLTF looks more appealing to me
[01:58:35] <davros> my favourite format was the old microsoft x-files, and dotXSI
[01:58:35] <Aritodo> is fbx a plaintext format like obj?
[01:58:45] <davros> compared to that, i disliked FBX
[01:58:55] <davros> it has ascii or binary.
[01:59:08] <davros> the ascii shows it contains a zilliion things i dont always need
[01:59:52] <Aritodo> oh, interesting that it has both, i wonder if the binary is just a compressed version or something
[02:00:31] <davros> i'm not sure exactly. its definitely not just "a zipped version of the ascii"
[02:01:00] <Verts> You know you can export only mesh data with FBX?
[02:01:02] <zgu> like how PDF is text-based but optionally lets you wrap most of the file in a compressed binary stream?
[02:01:52] <Aritodo> ugh, i swear pdf is the scourge of the modern world
[02:02:13] <Aritodo> PLEASE stop sending a jpg image wrapped in a friggin pdf. gah.
[02:02:40] <Verts> ^ only thing worse is a Linked JPEG in an MS Word doc
[02:02:46] <davros> Verts, hmm let me see.
[02:03:06] <pwillard> linked ZIP file in Word
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[02:03:11] <zgu> "you asked for a vector file like PDF" "that doesn't count!"
[02:03:30] <Verts> davros: In blender export and only select Mesh. By default, everything is selected to export
[02:04:01] <Aritodo> Verts: lol, ive seen jpg in a doc before, but not a linked one
[02:04:16] <Aritodo> i actually prefer that tho, since i can just open the doc and save out the jpg
[02:04:17] <zgu> hard for people in a blender channel to believe but 99% of the people in a typical office have absolutely no clue how graphics work
[02:04:49] <Aritodo> pdf wrapped ones require some wonky ripper or converter, that sometimes doesnt work, or requires me to do the files one at a time
[02:04:51] <pwillard> Thats so true
[02:05:02] <Aritodo> yeah
[02:05:25] <davros> does the blender FBX export have an ascii option ( isee the ability to just export mesh)
[02:05:27] <Verts> zgu: It rlly is hard though. When you deal with image graphics everyday it can be mindblowing to see people stuggle to do stuff like download a photo from their phone to their computer
[02:06:09] <Aritodo> well, that CAN be hard, if you have a frigin iphone, gah
[02:06:24] <pwillard> I told someone that I've been making my own windows ttf fonts since the 1990's... she said "Thats Legal? Will Microsoft Sue you?" Clueless.
[02:06:30] <zgu> i can't even count the number of gigabytes i've seen wasted on full HD iphone videos of computer screens because people were too lazy to transcribe a few lines of text
[02:06:40] <Aritodo> pwillard: LOL
[02:06:45] <Verts> davros: it looks like it use to - https://www.blender3darchitect.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/fbx_import2_500.gif
[02:07:04] <Verts> davros: can't find this in 2.8+...
[02:07:58] <Verts> Iphones can all go into MTP which is slow as balls, but is easy to use and compatable with most things
[02:08:00] <Aritodo> pwillard: ive never made a font before, why do you make them?
[02:08:04] <davros> same here :( i do prefer having somethign human readable for reference, but i dont even know what the binary is like (maybe its easy to read without needing a whole fbx library?)
[02:08:20] <pwillard> "stop moving my stuff" My thoughts about every new release.
[02:08:55] <pwillard> Aritodo: if you can draw 2d images in CorelDraw, you are 80% of there way there.
[02:09:21] <zgu> 2.8 was actually a major change. why wasn't it called 3.0?
[02:09:49] <zgu> every other project these days is bumping the first digit every few months with even smaller updates
[02:10:09] <pwillard> I still wonder that
[02:10:16] <Aritodo> pwillard: sure, you just need something that can convert vectors from whatever format you use, but my question is what is the purpose of doing this? seems like it would be an awful lot of work for all the characters
[02:10:43] <Aritodo> zgu: or just skipping numbers, thats the latest trend :p
[02:10:45] <pwillard> It is... but I specialize in turning Logo's to TTF
[02:10:55] <Aritodo> you can probably thank winamp for that... first software i remember doing that
[02:11:28] <Aritodo> pwillard: oooh, interesting, what is that used for? just an easier way to drop your logo into a document?
[02:12:11] <zgu> realizing that upgrading postgres 11.5 to 11.6 doesn't need a full dump/restore threw me off at first
[02:12:21] <Verts> This seems interesting for FBX... http://www.mesh-online.net/fbx.html
[02:12:39] <zgu> gcc took like a decade to go from 3 to 4, now it's one major version per year
[02:13:58] <Aritodo> hmm, one major per year isnt bad, gives you a good idea of how old your version is
[02:14:28] <Aritodo> for something like gcc that doesnt really change much from version to version, i can see where that would be a useful numbering scheme
[02:15:44] <Aritodo> its all a matter of what you want your version numbers to convey i suppose. im kindof thinking for my software of just forgetting version numbers entirely and using a date... version 2020.02.22 or something
[02:15:50] <pwillard> Letterheads, decals, Vinyl Cutters
[02:16:57] <zgu> TeX is the one with versions that go 3 3.1 3.14 3.141 3.1415, right?
[02:18:09] <Aritodo> haha
[02:18:27] <Aritodo> sounds great, until you get to dozens of releases
[02:19:23] <zgu> This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019 Gentoo Linux)
[02:19:26] <pwillard> Some of that is just nuts
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[03:11:52] <davros> how hard would it be to retrofit softimage XSI "sticky keys" to blender (if anyone remembers that)
[03:12:25] <davros> behaviour: when holding a hotkey associated with a tool, it behaves as a temporary shift into that tool, reverting to the previous tool on release
[03:13:21] <davros> .. but tapping the key enables the tool permanently (as is usually the case)
[03:14:14] <davros> e.g. so if you want to alternate between two tools, you select the "main one" first (tap it's key), then move your finger to the second tool, and hold it when you need it (less keypresses, at the expense of needing the hand on the keyboard.. which blender pretty much does anyway)#
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[04:38:49] <AurorAWOL> Is there a way to fine zoom using the wheel instead of in steps
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[04:41:27] <AurorAWOL> Cause I did something now it wont let me go into edit mode
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[04:57:27] <ze> AurorAWOL: ctrl middle-drag is a smoother zoom
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[04:58:21] <ze> https://i.imgur.com/I8VorGE.jpg did the ol curve-screw-subdivision wineglass ;)
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[09:03:24] <davros> is the 'snap' install of blender for linux stable? i'm using this version and it seems to crash or lockup on any attempt to manipulate materials
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[09:08:54] <Xard> ze: you could pump the light intensity a bit
[09:09:38] <Xard> or add a "twist": http://xard.mbnet.fi/cycles_glass.jpg
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[09:25:17] <davros> is anyone using "version 2.8.2", i've got this installed from "snap" ; i'm finding it locks up the UI (including my whole desktop) when i try to manipulate materials. besides that I can model, export OBJ/IQM,load/save fine
[09:25:45] <davros> UV editing appears to work, but I can't actually assign a texture anywhere (any attempt to use the material or texture properties results in locking up)
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[09:26:15] <davros> its blender 2.82 , installed from Snap, running on xubuntu 18.04 , gtx970,i7 4790
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[09:50:25] <TheRookie> I am using it on Ubuntu from snap, not having any problems with it yet,
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[09:50:33] <TheRookie> GTX 750 ti
[09:50:41] <TheRookie> which drivers are you using?
[09:50:54] <davros> ok i should mention the drivers
[09:51:06] <TheRookie> I asm using the nvidia ones
[09:51:23] <davros> i had a problem under ubuntu 19.anything which meant i had to go back to version 18.04 of ubuntu
[09:51:55] <davros> definitely the nvidia drivers, version.. ( i will check..)
[09:52:33] <TheRookie> are you using the nouveau drivers, I think I had problems with them
[09:52:46] <davros> thats werid, its showing up as nouveau activated now
[09:52:56] <davros> thats really weird. let me re-activate..
[09:53:07] <TheRookie> I would use the proprietory nvidia ones
[09:53:17] <davros> yes
[09:53:20] <TheRookie> havent had a problem since I switched to them
[09:53:32] <TheRookie> well one problem with OBS
[09:53:34] <davros> i was doing gl stuff aswell
[09:54:07] <TheRookie> if you do any OBS capturing you need to switch vsync off in the driver settings panel. its a small inconvience
[09:54:08] <davros> i had a problem with nvidia drivers for this gtx970 under 19.04,19.10,20.04 - so i went back a version of ubuntu. i found i needed the nvidia drivers for my gl stuff
[09:54:24] <davros> now i've re-activated i might need to reboot. i dont now how they got deactivated
[09:54:26] <TheRookie> otherwise your recording will have tearing in them
[09:54:43] <TheRookie> k good luck
[09:54:56] <TheRookie> I havent had any trouble with 19.10
[09:55:01] <davros> i was definitely using the nvidia drivers when going back .
[09:55:02] <TheRookie> what problems were you uhaving?
[09:55:22] <davros> (uyeah i think its a gtx970 thing, its a card with that funny memory issue. famous 3.5gb / 4gb thing
[09:55:36] <davros> it was slowing down when enabled.. like taking 20% cpu to do nothing
[09:55:55] <davros> but only under 19.04,19.10,20.04. back in 18.04 everything was back to normal
[09:55:55] <TheRookie> thats odd very popular card too
[09:56:02] <davros> i thought so
[09:56:07] <TheRookie> ah yep I remmebr those
[09:56:17] <davros> but i know it has this hardware issue with the last 0.5gb being slow
[09:56:22] <TheRookie> yes
[09:56:33] <TheRookie> that was very annoying
[09:56:52] <davros> 3.5 gb is enough , i dont mind that, but the bugs obviously
[09:57:06] <davros> i mean it was still good value if you think of it as 3.5gb :)
[09:57:06] <TheRookie> I remember reports of fps tanking in some games due to that
[09:57:27] <TheRookie> yep but only if you can get it to ignore the last 0.5GB
[09:57:53] <davros> ok i'll try blender again now, the system panel tells me the driver is active, then try rebooting if that crashes again..
[09:57:59] <TheRookie> good luck
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[10:23:07] <davros> thanks for the help.. it works fine now
[10:24:26] <davros> seems it was just the driver
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[10:33:54] <TheRookie> Excellent, no problem, glad its working.
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[10:56:32] <davros> is it feasible with scripting to respond to dragging files into the blender viewport,
[10:56:51] <davros> e.g. what i'd ideally like to be able to do is drag-drop image files onto the screen and it just applies them using some default material
[10:57:15] <davros> failing that i guess a hotkey to spawn the image browser (and apply the result) would be ok
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[13:08:41] <blenderstarter> Hi, in bevel modifier it is possible to specify the material index, so my question is: is there any option to do the same in boolean modifiers?
[13:09:37] <blenderstarter> For instance, the only way to assign a custom material for the difference boolean is to aply the modifier
[13:10:03] <blenderstarter> But i wanted to keep things non destruictive...
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[13:25:27] <sst66> Boolean needs two objects. One to be cut and the other to be the cutter. Each needs its own material and the object to be cut needs both, shown here: http://pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=d68ed61047c62c26dc590b2f88e1424b
[13:26:12] <sst66> The SphereMaterial doesn't need to be applied to the cube just has to be there
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[13:51:48] <blenderstarter> Thanks very much, it was so obvious
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[17:12:26] <davros> anyone around? Any recomendations for a way to streamline applying textures in blender (i'm guessing it can be done with scripts)
[17:13:20] <davros> think of a world building context rather than character building, e.g. i pretty much want to ignore material details and just get the right image and UV coords (and materials can be figured out later, based on the textures.. channel driven stuff)
[17:14:02] <davros> obviously becaues the blender UI is oriented for fine control ove rendering etc.. you have to delve quite a bit just to get an image onto something
[17:14:59] <davros> my ideal would be to drag an image from a file browser onto the scene, and it applies it to the selection or object under the cursor where you drop it
[17:15:30] <davros> (what would be awesoem is if its scripting could intercept file drop..)
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[17:24:08] <davros> Q2 can blender's "material Preview" view show Vertex Colors * texture image ? (i'm looking through shader options). what i'm after is that the surface diffuse color is assumed to be vertex colours X applied texture
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[17:43:21] <Xard> davros: if you drag and drop image to 3d space it should create an empty image preview object
[17:43:35] <Xard> though sadly it can't be converted to mesh with "convert to"
[17:44:24] <davros> 'empty image preview object' .. a seperate object in the scene that somehow contains the image?
[17:44:38] <davros> like a billboard or reference image?
[17:45:16] <Xard> if you drag and drop image file to shader editor it creates an image data node which can be then quickly assigned to UV with ctrl+t if you use built-in node wrangler addon
[17:45:22] <davros> is there a way to build a palette of materials (eg i could start with a texture directory and perhaps a script could make a material for each), such that you could browse that material selection
[17:45:41] <Xard> there was "import image as plane" but it's not active at least by default
[17:45:59] <davros> i seem to remember using guide images in the past (can't remember what its called)
[17:46:27] <davros> heh where is the 'shader editor' , i see the materials property box that i used to enable a texture already
[17:46:34] <davros> is that the "nodes" thing?
[17:46:46] <Xard> yeah, there's still an addon "Import images as planes" which you can import multiple images and it creates planes with correct aspect ratio and maps the images as textures
[17:46:56] <davros> i see a header-button saying "Use Nodes" which can be toggled
[17:47:15] <Xard> that's just the editor panel, which is kind of shallow version of nodes
[17:47:47] <davros> "import images as planes" , projecting them onto any geometry that you build ? (again thats a workflow i've setup elsewhere .. i wrote a custom inhouse editor that did that :) )
[17:49:13] <Xard> as the name implies it just imports textures as plane mesh objects
[17:50:35] <Xard> as you mentioned "world building" something like this came in mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ikG-u_6r0
[17:51:03] <davros> i'm guessing there's a bunch of addons that could help that
[17:52:44] <davros> yeah thats similar to what we did before
[17:52:56] <davros> starting with a projection then modelling geometry into it
[17:53:04] <Xard> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_c58ryJ-Sw - or the other way around
[17:53:29] <Xard> model the composition and the slap textures on it with help of cube projection
[17:53:34] <davros> ok my "simplest" problem:
[17:53:55] <davros> is there a way (perhaps a hotkey + script) to streamling merely getting a texture onto the selected polygons
[17:55:00] <davros> eg. [1] select some polygons [2] press a custom hotkey [3] the image browser dialogue would appear, you find your texture; [4] a script automatically assigns the UVs using smart project, and assigns the texture to a material.
[17:55:29] <Xard> you don't care about the face aspect comparing to the texture?
[17:55:41] <Xard> aspect ratio*
[17:56:23] <davros> aspect rato: prefer to assume square textures, aspect should be 1.0 in the world space. repeating textures - things like brick walls , tiled pavements etc
[17:57:08] <Xard> well, you can also skip the UV and use cube projection for the material
[17:57:15] <davros> (^infact a texture script that can bundle a few textures based on orientation would be great aswell. "put bricks on the sides, floor tiles on up-facing surfaces, celing tiles on down facing surfaces")
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[17:57:36] <davros> cube projection might be what i'm after. in-engine i've used "tri-planar mapping" for landscapes
[17:57:57] <davros> if cube-projection is the thing that corresponds to the engine technique "tri-planar-mapping"
[17:58:16] <Xard> exactly that
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[17:58:35] <Xard> and there's also support for fading out the seams
[17:58:50] <davros> ok thats nifty.
[18:00:29] <Xard> https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/render/shader_nodes/textures/image.html - under header "Projection"
[18:02:15] <Xard> though you'd probably want to look some introduction about using shader nodes in blender if you weren't familiar with the UI
[18:02:54] <davros> yeah the UI is a bit overwhelming at first glance
[18:03:08] <davros> i understand it has to deal with way more than world building..
[18:03:35] <Xard> well, most of 3d softwares are rather overwhelming unless they are very specified to a singular task only
[18:03:47] <davros> just wondering if its worth persevering with blender for this or trying to find a dedicated world builder
[18:03:56] <davros> like the old quake tools (GtkRadiant etc)
[18:04:16] <davros> or build prefabs in blender and place them in something else
[18:05:09] <Xard> sounds like are exporting them as meshes to a 3d engine?
[18:05:50] <davros> yes
[18:05:52] <davros> exactly.
[18:07:30] <ze> ok, rendered with moar bounces (and more samples while i was at it :p) https://i.imgur.com/xR6sa7S.jpg
[18:07:51] <Xard> if you use blender you can take advantage of the modifiers and addons, of course it depends how detailed you are planning to go if it's worth the non-destructive workflow approach
[18:08:46] <ze> now that the light bounce limits aren't artificially darkening it, i think the foot's too thin :p
[18:08:54] <davros> yeah all that is cool,
[18:08:56] <Xard> also cycles with denoiser can give quite good idea of how somewhat physically accurate lighting would work in the scene
[18:09:15] <Xard> though might not be what you are after here at all
[18:09:52] <Xard> ze: nice, you got the glass material without black spots and overly dark shadow
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[18:10:43] <ze> now that light bouncing isn't darkening it wrongly, i feel like i should put a tiny touch of absorption in since it should actually darken a little with bounces :p
[18:11:33] <Xard> ze: one thing to keep in mind that your glass materials has black spots it means you have too low sample count for transmission but you have to notice that limitting glossy bounces can also produce dark areas inside the glass because it has to reflect something even inside
[18:12:00] <ze> Xard: yes, i watched a presentation on glass rendering last night :)
[18:12:20] <Xard> there was one really good presentation about it
[18:12:30] <Xard> and the glossy thing is really easy to miss
[18:12:40] <ze> http://youtu.be/Sv2wqwsvx-8
[18:12:54] <ze> yeah it explained the glossy thing, i'd have never thought of that
[18:12:55] <ze> hehe
[18:13:00] <Xard> yeah that's the one, thank you!
[18:13:25] <ze> :)
[18:15:40] <davros> i've got a texture on an object via its default material i guess, and some polygons selected. i made another material. How would I assign the new material to the selected polygons?
[18:16:33] <davros> got it ok
[18:16:36] <davros> ("assign")
[18:17:16] <ze> with a 2nd material slot to assign to, yes
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[18:24:51] <scorpion81> davros: hmm, do you refer with "world-building" to something like this ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=741WnWIsf2I ? (just curious)
[18:25:23] <davros> that looks like world building to me
[18:25:43] <davros> nonetheless someone has to make the tiles first
[18:25:58] <davros> even there blender could be streamlined IMO
[18:26:18] <scorpion81> yup, true... i guess that is quite challenging to get the geometry right for tiling
[18:26:50] <davros> the biggest point of reference I have is the old quake tools, and an inhouse thing at my previous company
[18:27:13] <davros> i'm sure blender can do it
[18:27:27] <ze> http://youtu.be/SgEbUgA7jVo
[18:27:34] <davros> it would be nice to customise blender to that extent.. it would involve having a texture browser pane somewhere
[18:27:50] <ze> davros: you can do that easily afaik
[18:28:02] <ze> or i think so anyway
[18:28:08] <ze> generally customizing you can
[18:28:12] <davros> imagine just dragging from a texture-browser pane onto selected polygons
[18:28:42] <davros> (no poly selected - drop a texture onto the entire object at the top point. that sort of thing)
[18:29:13] <davros> i'm not really a "3d artist", i'm just tinkering for myself
[18:29:25] <davros> i'm writing an engine, but i have no art, so i'm trying to build some art.
[18:29:41] <davros> got fed up of heightfields and donuts
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[18:39:58] <_FrnchFrgg_> Hello all. Do you know of a mean to either:
[18:40:20] <_FrnchFrgg_> a) have background images show underneath holdout shaders in the viewport, or
[18:40:52] <_FrnchFrgg_> b) have a value (either by a driver or an input node or whatever) that changes between viewport and render,
[18:41:22] <_FrnchFrgg_> so that I can switch with a mix shader between "transparent" and "holdout" depending on viewport or render ?
[18:42:07] <_FrnchFrgg_> The goal is to have a (maybe low-fi but working) preview in the viewport, but using the high quality when rendering.
[18:42:29] <_FrnchFrgg_> I currently change the value manually before rendering, but that's a pain and I sometimes forget.
[18:42:39] <_FrnchFrgg_> (I am using eevee)
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[20:14:58] <Taoki> Hi. Is it normal that displacement textures don't work at all under Eevee? In the sense that they neither give off bump, neither displace the vertices.
[20:15:24] <Taoki> I noticed they also don't give the bump effect in Cycles any more, only when plugged into the Normal output of the shader. But there it at least displaces.
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[20:50:17] <intracube> Taoki: it works here: https://i.imgur.com/fEYRdkC.jpg
[20:50:43] <intracube> the texture Color output can also be plugged into the Displacement Material Output
[20:50:51] <intracube> and results are similar between Cycles/Eevee
[20:52:43] <intracube> in some situations it might not work; in Cycles, if material->settings->surface->displacement == displacement only
[20:53:43] <intracube> but you don't have an object with enough faces, you won't see any (true) displacement
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[22:14:50] <Uhfgood> hey
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[22:22:07] <TheRookie> lo :)
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[22:51:32] <Taoki> intracube: Aha. I wasn't plugging it into the material normal but the displacement input of the output node.
[22:51:55] <Taoki> I thought that's the one that's needed for real vertice displacement to work.
[22:52:16] <Taoki> Yes... I looked for that setting and noticed it's only available in Cycles.
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[22:57:14] <Taoki> So does the displacement input no longer work? Because it no longer seems to do anything either in cycles or in eevee.
[22:57:20] <sine0> folks... I have been modelling for a while now for some reason my models have just dissapeared.
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[22:58:04] <Taoki> Blender 2.82 BTW.
[22:58:22] <sine0> https://imgur.com/a/AHvx5hX
[23:03:42] <sst66> Press numpad /, sine0 :)
[23:03:55] <Taoki> sine0: Weird. They don't seem to be hidden. Perhaps the wrong layer? 2.79 still had those.
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[23:04:50] <sst66> User Perspective (Local) is the hint, sine0. Numpad / toggles local view
[23:06:42] <sine0> I dont have numbpad
[23:06:53] <sine0> im using the top row and the tick box that enables them
[23:07:02] <sst66> Then find the option in the View menu
[23:07:03] <sine0> if i render with f12 the objects are there
[23:08:01] <sst66> I told you what's wrong, you said you don't have a numpad instead of fixing what I said
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[23:08:28] <sine0> oi hold yoru horses I am looking
[23:09:13] <Taoki> Does displacement mapping actually not work in Eevee?
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[23:09:58] <sine0> sst66: ok that worked, thank you.
[23:10:09] <sst66> :)
[23:10:10] <sine0> what did I actually do then, seeing as I dont have the numbpad
[23:10:18] <sine0> and what is the point of that. to hide everthing ?
[23:10:58] <sst66> I don't know but maybe one of the other keys gets mapped to KB when numpad emulation is enabled
[23:11:51] <sst66> With an object selelcted, local view hides everything else
[23:11:52] <ze> keyboards without a num pad usually still have one as Fn+others
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[23:12:35] <ze> or fn, whatever
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[23:13:12] <intracube> Taoki: in Cycles: https://i.imgur.com/inESbjf.jpg
[23:13:16] <intracube> in Eevee: https://i.imgur.com/guGHpbY.jpg
[23:14:08] <intracube> you should always use the Displacement node to convert the data into the proper format (in previous versions, you could just connect a texture up to the shader output displacement socket)
[23:15:30] <intracube> I'm not sure why it isn't working for you
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[23:19:52] <Taoki> Very strange. I have that exact setup yet it's not working for me,
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[23:20:30] <Taoki> Tried with a higher subsurf to make sure that's not it, same issue.
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[23:22:48] <Taoki> Ah, that is so weird: You can't have a shader normal and displace at the same time. Also the displace map only does bump in eevee, no actual vertice displacement.
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[23:28:07] <Taoki> Yeah don't think Eevee supports shader displacement, need to use the displacement modifier.
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[23:37:10] <intracube> Taoki: ah yes, I discovered that last week.
[23:37:21] <intracube> you need to use a Bump node if you want to merge displacement and normal textures
[23:37:32] <sine0> if I have group items how can I have them behave for an array modifier
[23:37:34] <Taoki> No worries, displacement modifier works great in the meantime.
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[23:43:15] <intracube> Taoki: something like this: https://i.imgur.com/05FpBOc.png
[23:43:44] <Taoki> Yes, I use that sometimes. Was only confused about bump vs displacement not working
[23:43:46] <intracube> (strength and distance values are high by default)
[23:43:50] <intracube> ah ok
[23:44:06] <intracube> yus, it's... obscure
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   February 23, 2020  
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