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   February 15, 2020  
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[00:10:00] <jaggz> he could just use blender to produce a raw avi from the strip
[00:10:11] <jaggz> i'd use ffmpeg though :)
[00:10:31] <Aritodo> oh yeah, hadnt thought of that
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[00:11:02] <Aritodo> darn, would have been a good idea, oh well
[00:11:06] <jaggz> well, he's the one that came up with the idea of making them into a raw movie format.. which was smart.
[00:11:30] <jaggz> <...> ..."I can still convert my image-sequence in some raw movie container."
[00:11:46] <Aritodo> oh, guess i missed it
[00:11:48] <jaggz> :)
[00:11:57] <Aritodo> was a lot of text, and im trying to work at the same time
[00:12:08] <jaggz> it's okay you needed to market your plugins.. they're useful :D
[00:12:17] <jaggz> keep up the good work :)
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[00:16:13] <Aritodo> heh, wasnt my intention to market it, just to make it easier for him to solve his problem
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[00:49:35] <jaggz> i know buddy
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[02:06:45] <ze> suppose you're using something like an inverse square function for volumetric density but you want to smoothly clamp the edges, or else it'll always have a non non-zero value showing the bounding object
[02:07:24] <ze> you don't want it to affect anything within the main radius but then you want it to quickly but smoothly fade off from there to a max radius that's guaranteed to reach 0
[02:08:08] <ze> the colorramp totally distorts the falloff function, no matter what you do it seems, as does pretty much anything in rgb space afaict
[02:08:57] <ze> this 'smooth minimum' kinda seems to do it best so far, but it's finicky to tune it to the right range and i'm not sure what it's really doing or if it's really getting what i want
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[02:10:41] <ze> if i adjust the inverse power function, it clearly starts leaking, whereas the ideal falloff for this case would be like *1.0 at min_radius and 0.0 at max_radius and do that to any input function
[02:10:55] <ze> hmm
[02:11:46] <Aritodo> hmm, multiply the density value with a gradient texture?
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[02:30:36] <ze> maybe, seems like i tried that before and it might've messed with the falloff too, but not sure
[02:31:08] <ze> i've moved onto different experiments now :p, but i'll give it try later, thanks
[02:31:51] <ze> i'm noticing if i apply transformations to things with physics or fields, the position of the physical/field effect gets reset to the world origin, is that supposed to happen?
[02:32:49] <ze> or similarly if i translate it in edit mode instead... the physic/field indicator (and effect to the sim) doesn't move with the geometry
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[02:35:07] <Aritodo> outdated cache again?
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[02:37:13] <ze> i can delete the rigid body bake before i do it and it'll act this way, if i rebake then it just shows how the ball is hitting the collision outline of the plane a meter above the actual plane
[02:37:49] <ze> is there another cache i need to clear
[02:37:59] <Aritodo> huh. sorry, no ideas, i have very little experience with rigid bodies
[02:38:01] <ze> i'm noticing bounce and weight don't seem to be updating even though i rebake that too
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[02:38:50] <ze> trying a bunch of different bounce factors and nothing's bouncing, then i change the mass and suddenly it's bouncing, then i try more bounce factors again and it doesn't change, then i try different weights and it doesn't change...
[02:38:53] <ze> heh
[02:40:10] <Aritodo> hrm, sounds like it could be some depsgraph issues, or it could be an alpha version thing too
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[02:42:39] <ze> seems to help it update if i just change them both at once before i rebake
[02:42:42] <ze> heh
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[02:42:59] <ze> ok here's an easy one, is there any stop button for animation?
[02:43:11] <Aritodo> esc
[02:43:13] <Aritodo> or space
[02:43:38] <ze> i want it to not just quit playing like pause, but also return to the end frame, and not restart if the key doubles
[02:43:39] <ze> hmm
[02:43:50] <ze> ok esc is good
[02:43:54] <ze> thanks
[02:44:06] <Aritodo> esc goes back to the start frame, space pauses on the current frame
[02:44:12] <ze> though it's another thing i'll accidentally cancel renders with ;p
[02:44:26] <ze> i think i just need to rebind the cancel render button, it happens so much
[02:44:43] <ze> cause esc does too much else already
[02:45:04] <ze> think you're just cancelling a entry edit and woops there goes the render
[02:45:06] <ze> heeh
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[02:46:16] <Aritodo> well, dont do editing while its rendering :p
[02:46:30] <Aritodo> or start up a second copy of blender
[02:47:01] <Aritodo> im always afraid of messing up my render, never touch anything while its rendering
[02:47:53] <ze> hehe
[02:48:00] * ze just adds the ctrl modifier to the binding :P
[02:48:34] <stiv> be vewwwy vewwy quiet! we're wendering
[02:48:57] <ze> man the keymap prefs are still pretty wonky... i had all these sections tediously expanded one by one and then they collapsed themselves when i clicked to enable the modifier on one of them :P
[02:49:13] <ze> in a search, which seems to be the wonkier part
[02:49:21] <ze> it also displays their titles truncated with a mile of space available
[02:49:24] <ze> :P
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[02:53:26] <ze> hmm adding the modifier didn't stop it from cancelling with esc anyway :/
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[02:55:36] <ze> i think i figured out how i made the fluid sim start crashing
[02:56:04] <ze> i forgot i enabled the plane as a fluid effector so the water would collide with it, but i still had it intersecting the flow geometry also
[02:56:30] <ze> i just disabled it so it'd quit crashing and i can worry about seeing how well it collides later
[02:56:33] <ze> hehe
[02:56:56] <Aritodo> maybe give it some thickness? that could be the issue with the crashes
[02:57:14] <Aritodo> if it doesnt have any actual volume it might be throwing things off
[02:57:57] <ze> i thought i had it set in a way it indicated was appropriate for a plane anyway, but i'll double check
[02:58:25] <Aritodo> i dunno, just a thought
[02:59:27] <ze> blender is my favorite toy/game, it's just parameter space loaded with weird corner cases :P
[02:59:31] <ze> just a*
[03:03:53] <ze> yeah the interaction between sims is very finicky
[03:04:33] <ze> now it looks like the fluid and object are interacting properly as far as the fluid is concerned, the ghost of the object seems to slow down as it enters the fluid, just the rigid body calculation is disagreeing and throwing the sphere into orbit :P
[03:04:56] <ze> except it's agreeing enough to be affected by the field and affect the fluid like it's supposed to
[03:04:59] <ze> so bizarre
[03:05:01] <ze> :P
[03:09:26] <ze> the viewport vs render settings thing seems weird... some of the render settings apply to the rendered view and some of the viewport settings do and you can't seem to do much where you want something like, wireframe in everything but rendered view and textured in the rendered view
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[03:09:53] <ze> makes the rendered view kinda useless if it's not showing things you need to see through while working with everywhere else
[03:09:57] <notchris> How can i resize an object down, without scaling it proportionally?
[03:10:00] <notchris> sorry, im a noob
[03:10:10] <notchris> i just want to decrease the height ,but keep position
[03:10:20] <notchris> like, decreasing the height of a wall
[03:10:48] <ze> after you hit s to scale, you can hit x y or z to constrain it to that axis or X Y or Z (i.e shift+ x y or z) to constrain it on the other 2
[03:11:05] <ze> so hit s z and you can adjust just the height
[03:11:16] <ze> or s Z and you can fix the height but adjust the x and y width together
[03:11:27] <notchris> hmmm
[03:11:28] <jaggz> and if it's screwing the position of the bottom up, you might want to place the cursor down there
[03:11:30] <ze> make sense?
[03:11:52] <jaggz> then use . to set the position of transforms to "3d cursor"
[03:12:00] <jaggz> or you can put your object origin there
[03:12:11] <ze> you can also press the x/y/z/X/Y/Z a 2nd time and it'll switch from the global coordinates to the object's local coordinates
[03:12:28] <notchris> so
[03:12:30] <jaggz> by putting the cursor there and, in object mode, using Object menu -> Origin -> set to 3d cursor
[03:12:31] <notchris> i have this setup
[03:12:35] <notchris> https://i.imgur.com/2pQdR6a.png
[03:12:40] <notchris> in the front view
[03:12:46] <notchris> i just want to decrease the box height
[03:12:53] <notchris> so im on the scale tool
[03:12:56] <notchris> and i hold y?
[03:12:57] <jaggz> sz
[03:13:30] <ze> if you're using those graphical handles, it's the blue box one i guess
[03:13:48] <notchris> hmm but it still made it scale
[03:13:49] <notchris> https://i.imgur.com/cH8bDWh.png
[03:13:49] <ze> the sz keybindings don't need to be on the scale tool, which i forget even exists
[03:13:53] <jaggz> probably save some of your life by watching a couple youtube tutorials on, say, "blender basic transforms" or something
[03:13:53] <notchris> i want it to stay on the floor
[03:13:56] <jaggz> "basic editing"
[03:14:00] <jaggz> "introduction to"
[03:14:06] <ze> ah yeah
[03:14:33] <jaggz> in this case you can hit shift-C to get your cursor to the world center then . -> 3d cursor
[03:14:35] <ze> if you only want one side to move generally the easy way would be to tab to edit mode, select the top 4 vertices, and then g to move those up
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[03:15:05] <ze> there's lots of ways to do everything :)
[03:15:07] <notchris> hmmm
[03:15:24] <jaggz> (or pick the top face in face-select mode.. then gz)
[03:15:50] <jaggz> but gz for verts too
[03:16:10] <jaggz> mess with all these things to get used to it
[03:16:24] <jaggz> s z
[03:16:25] <notchris> its weird
[03:16:25] <jaggz> g z
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[03:16:30] <notchris> i tried s z
[03:16:33] <jaggz> s shift+z
[03:16:53] <jaggz> look at the . key menu, notchris
[03:17:07] <jaggz> and good luck.. naptime :)
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[03:18:11] <ze> man i really don't understand how the fluid seems to be responding to the rigid body settings working correctly but the rigid body itself isn't showing that way
[03:19:26] <ze> and believe me i'm scrutinizing every cache i can find
[03:19:29] <ze> heh
[03:21:38] <ze> baking 2 sims together is just weird cause they're acting too separate and independently even though they do seem to be mutually affecting each other
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[03:24:41] <ze> i think i'm fooling myself here
[03:24:44] <ze> heh
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[03:34:24] <ze> um
[03:34:56] <ze> ok the rigid body stuff's just freaking out
[03:37:24] <ze> heh had to like clear the rigid body cache and save and restart for it to start behaving at all
[03:37:56] <stiv> sometimes when sims become unstable it helps to reduce the step size so the movement is more accurate
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[03:41:48] <AurorAWOL> In eevee is there a way to make light penetrate glass?
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[06:37:19] <ze> so i gave up on a drag field in the fluid, i think the times it looked like it was working were some glitch fluke or mistaken impression :P
[06:37:41] <ze> managed to get a separate drag field working right though
[06:39:05] <ze> also realized the noise parameter in that only varies the drag force randomly, which isn't very visible or desirable, so i did add a turbulence field too
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[06:40:15] <ze> without trying to make the simulated fluid cause drag directly, and getting parameters right, it's all behaving correctly now so i'm baking the fluid sim at twice the resolution
[06:40:20] <ze> oh it just finished
[06:40:23] <ze> took forever though
[06:40:25] <ze> ::P
[06:40:28] <ze> well not like rendering or some big sim would
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[06:43:28] <ze> ah crap i should've checked it after setting the frames higher... another rigid body cache glitch screwed it up somehow, resetting the ball position at frame 51 even though i rebaked the thing for the 250 frame length
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[06:49:57] <ze> ah crap now the rigid body is suddenly ignoring the forces that were working just before
[06:50:30] <ze> also somehow the plane's collision surface moved from where i had it aligned
[06:50:35] <ze> geez this stuff's borked
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[09:08:40] <TheRookie> topic needs an update :D
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[09:17:58] <Aritodo> oh, well crap, now i need to update all my addons -_-
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[10:24:32] <ze> ah see there 2.82 is out with mantaflow in it, not alpha!
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[10:25:02] <ze> managed to get my ebuild to work to build a 2.82 release branch of the git too, though it's not really behaving much different so far :P
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[10:43:02] <Xard> made a bit more detailed post from my Workbench experiment from last night: https://blenderartists.org/t/eevee-workbench-shading-test/1207227
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[10:43:49] <Xard> and now I discovered that some developers are debatting whether the workbench should be a rendering option at all :(
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[11:20:09] <sahns> Hi! Is there a way to view a clip in the video editor section through the camera? as if a background image had been added to the camera but without having to go through the rigmarole again
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[12:51:43] <OpenTokix> When I render metaflow with foam and bubbles. - I don't see those particles in the render. - I assume I have missed some basic step, but hints welcome!
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[12:53:25] <sahns> I think you need to render the foam and bubbles after the initial standard render, they have their own little render buttons in their tabs
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[17:41:46] <purplefrog> Back in 2.7 when i created a cylinder there was a panel on the left where i could adjust its "resolution". In 2.8, I don't see that panel. How can I edit it to make it a pentagon?
[17:42:06] <purplefrog> Holy smokes, just noticed the pop-up.
[17:42:15] <purplefrog> it was a tiny thing in the lower left.
[17:42:17] <sedeki> :)
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[17:45:35] <purplefrog> OK, now i'm looking at the UV map and it was "kind" enough to lay things out so they don't overlap, but I'd really like each panel to fill the UV square so I can have a high-res design. Time to find a UV unwrap mode that does that.
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[18:09:25] <purplefrog> Crud. It's been so long since I used the constraint I can't figure out how to tell an object to rotate with a bone.
[18:10:06] <sedeki> how did you guys learn blender?
[18:10:09] <sedeki> proprely
[18:10:11] <sedeki> properly*
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[18:22:25] <Xard> http://xard.mbnet.fi/blenderartists/b28_xb_eevee_wb_shade.jpg - workbench cavity shading in action... I mean... what the heck
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[19:05:33] <notchris> how do i resize things from top ortho like in this pic
[19:05:34] <notchris> https://i.imgur.com/18g33C4.png
[19:05:45] <notchris> i want to grab a corner and resize
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[20:03:17] <ze> wasn't there some pivot point to set for rotation/scaling?
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[20:04:28] <ze> so this is fun, these 2 fields weren't affecting my ball dropping on a plane rigid body effects, and after repeated clearing the cache and rebaking and restarting blender to force something to clear that wasn't that way etc kinda nonsense, i finally got ONE of the fields effecting it properly
[20:04:43] <ze> eventually i managed to get the other one working by boosting its strength
[20:05:04] <ze> 50 was plenty for the ball being 5kg, but i turned the mass up to 10kg, so makes sense i need to increase the strength
[20:05:16] <ze> but i had to get to like 1000 or 10000 before it worked
[20:06:18] <ze> this being a turbulence field
[20:06:56] <ze> and now that the rigid body's baked for the full duration without seeming to have any glitches or failures, i can redo the long fluid bake
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[20:07:42] <ze> actually i think the 50 strength worked at 10kg before, cause i had everything working and ready to go and only extended everything from baking 50 frames to 250 and it all broke and quit and needed readjustment to start working the way it had been alreaody
[20:07:54] <Xard> really strong wind force is required for lifting up or even slowing falling 10 kg objects
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[20:08:15] <ze> it's just for making it jostle a bit as it lands
[20:08:39] *** CoJaBo_ is now known as CoJaBo
[20:08:45] <ze> it's nothing more than it plops down and then rolls by like 2°
[20:08:49] <ze> :P
[20:09:08] <ze> instead of plopping down and staying exactly in put
[20:09:13] <ze> er exactly in place
[20:10:14] <ze> it's just weird that it worked for the 50 frames and then i change the end frames on everything and rebake it all and it comes out glitched and broken and needing adjustment to work the same way again
[20:10:40] <ze> i'll blame the git build i was using to begin with for now
[20:10:59] <ze> i switched to 2.82 and working in that and maybe it'll behave from now on?
[20:11:24] <Xard> when experimenting and something seems broken try to test the case in isolated environment to see if the initial expection of how things should work was correct or if there was something else going on
[20:11:38] <ze> well there's not a lot going on
[20:12:00] <ze> a sphere, a plane, 2 fields... i took the fluid out of the equation while getting the rigid bodies under control
[20:12:33] <Xard> okay so you made already a isolated environment pretty much then
[20:13:43] <ze> it's really tricky to adjust variables when sometimes they don't seem to update until something forces them too, so it can be things like twiddling one thing back and forth and it doesn't seem to matter but then it does when something else secretly triggers it to take effect
[20:14:10] <ze> like earlier i had to change the mass and bounciness of the ball both at the same time to get either one to update
[20:14:40] <ze> if just changed one and rebaked, nothing would change
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[20:15:32] <ze> so sometimes i might be flipping a parameter back and forth trying to see if it's doing what i want and leaving it in the wrong state when it doesn't change anything, but then it does and i don't know it when i change something else, and then i pull my hair out
[20:15:35] <ze> :P
[20:16:45] <ze> and also get to wondering how i could ever make a scene of nontrivial complexity when everything blows up with 4 simple elements in a basic test
[20:17:54] <ze> eventually it all gets to working, but it's like how much time am i spending fighting the software vs creating anything
[20:18:33] <ze> sorry, just get frustrated
[20:18:39] <ze> it'll be beautiful when it gets there :)
[20:19:16] <Xard> currently the caching system can be quite annoying to work with as something it has serious problems ignoring the updates to values
[20:20:22] <ze> so it's not just me then hehe
[20:20:45] <Xard> though you can see dots in the timeline representing cached frames
[20:21:42] <Xard> I'm working with one model with cloth cape flowing in the wind and tweaking the animation always requires some "shaking" of the playback to get properly in sync
[20:22:28] <Xard> i think most of the time if you have playhead at first frame the changes are registered as expected but if not...
[20:23:05] <ze> hehe
[20:23:15] <ze> yeah i notice things get weird with that
[20:23:42] <Xard> and the worst thing is that if you are in the middle of an animation and press bake the result can be a weird quantum state system where it's kind of updated but then again not quite ;<
[20:24:00] <ze> like jumping to another frame or just going back one, while paused, and it's like the moving body disappears from where it should be
[20:24:32] <ze> hehe
[20:24:49] <ze> good to know that frame position is a factor to fiddle with there, thanks
[20:24:58] <Xard> no problem
[20:25:36] <Xard> but then again, I think simulations are more or less finicky and / or slow in most software
[20:26:03] <ze> yeah
[20:26:21] <ze> simulation is a hard and complex problem even in fairly simple cases a lot of the time
[20:26:39] <ze> though basic rigid body mechanics seem to be pretty mature and stable in realtime in lots of things?
[20:26:49] <ze> maybe not as much as i think
[20:26:53] <Xard> bit like modelling the LAN-borghini I cursed polymodelling tools a lot (i'm not experienced in car modelling) but now later I watched one tutorial for car modelling using Alias + 3DS max
[20:27:09] <Xard> which is like 10 000 $ worth of software
[20:27:12] <ze> hehe
[20:27:13] <Xard> and it was way worse
[20:27:35] <Xard> maybe my approach wasn't that bad after all
[20:27:57] <ze> when you get it for free and it misbehaves you go on the internet and tell everyone what crap it is... when you pay $10k for it and it misbehaves, you think "damn i suck at this, oh well" :P
[20:28:14] <Xard> indeed
[20:28:52] <Xard> and next time people go "but but but NUBRS!!!" I can be like "I've seen enough of that and it doesn't work here"
[20:29:37] <ze> nurbs huh?
[20:29:51] <Xard> Alias is industrial nurbs modeller
[20:30:01] <ze> ah
[20:31:43] <Xard> the thing here is that Nurbs don't really convert to usable polygon topology without mostly manual remeshing
[20:31:54] <Xard> or retopology
[20:33:01] <ze> heh
[20:33:03] <Xard> and you'll end up fighting topology in the end either way
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[20:33:22] <Xard> and if you have to do modifications... well, that's when things get extra crispy
[20:33:28] <ze> hehe
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[20:34:15] <ze> yeah i think i'll stick just to raytracing my mathematical primitives, and use mesh stuff for mesh uses ;p
[20:35:31] <Xard> http://xard.mbnet.fi/jlan_tshirts/2020/LAN-Borgini.png - so much things still to fix -_-
[20:37:14] <ze> nice
[20:37:18] <Xard> thank you!
[20:37:34] <Xard> I have some new respect for the mad skilled car modellers in blender artists
[20:37:41] <ze> hehe yeah
[20:38:01] <ze> it's funny what you learn when trying stuff yourself
[20:38:07] <Xard> yeah
[20:38:29] <ze> now that i've rendered a sim with fancy materials, i realize why so many on r/simulated use fast metal ones ;p
[20:39:31] <Xard> funny how the spicing up the art in your case is the secondary or tertiary thing while the main thing is getting the simulation working but still people will look for the "art spice" first
[20:39:37] <ze> render times really climb with subsurface scattering and refraction and all that
[20:39:50] <Xard> indeed
[20:40:05] <Xard> AMD 64 core threadripper ftw!
[20:40:08] <ze> mmm
[20:40:38] <ze> i got a 3700x this year, 8 cores... it seems to be faster than my rx580 for cycles :P
[20:41:07] <Xard> I have only a 2700x ._.
[20:41:09] <ze> 64+ cores would be so tasty
[20:42:03] <ze> well i got gifted a gaming step-grandpa's older board+gpu+ram and only needed to pay for a cpu, so i got what seemed to be the best i could put in it without excessive cost
[20:42:08] <Xard> but combining that with 2070 GTX using cuda makes things rather fast
[20:42:34] <ze> you know every time i tested gpu+cpu both enabled with opencl it just took a few seconds longer in total than cpu only :(
[20:42:53] <Xard> though when I bought the 2700x i jumped from Intel quadcore land it was very competetively priced
[20:43:47] <Xard> my reference scene with the intel setup is: http://xard.mbnet.fi/blenderartists/ba_atomic_balancing.jpg
[20:43:53] <ze> i had a phenom 9850 quad before this, and that system was getting finicky after power issues
[20:43:55] <Xard> that took around 32 minutes or so
[20:44:13] <Xard> and now it takes with cuda around 3:48 :D
[20:44:17] <ze> nice
[20:45:06] <Xard> thanks again!
[20:45:36] <ze> i should probably revisit my opencl tests, amdpro's opencl might not be as good as rocm which i didn't get working.. and new blender versions, maybe it was a bug that i didn't get any speedup with the combo
[20:46:21] <Xard> I pondered going with 5700 XT but at the last second chickened out ;<
[20:46:40] <Xard> and really competetively priced 2070 GTX didn't help ^^;
[20:46:47] <ze> hehe
[20:47:03] <Xard> but i'd like to run on full open source stack
[20:47:03] <swordsmanz> Xard: is it for blendr ?
[20:47:47] <swordsmanz> if so just get a vega
[20:48:47] <Xard> we'll see how AMD gpus get into the raytracing side of things
[20:49:21] <Xard> though with something like 64 cpu threadripper there's not much need to bother the GPU for rendering
[20:50:03] <swordsmanz> for blender a vega is already basically the best thing you can get for raytraceing thats not like a 1080ti or a 2080
[20:50:05] <ze> didn't they just announce a 128 core
[20:50:30] <ze> or was that something just speculated in the 64 core annoucement
[20:50:43] <Xard> so far the performance even without optix 2070 GTX has been really good
[20:51:02] <Xard> it's 64 cores and 128 threads
[20:51:20] <ze> https://i.imgur.com/sArlDgE.png before i render the animation, i feel like the background isn't up to par with everything else... but not sure what i'd want to do that wouldn't push render times too much higher :p
[20:51:35] <Xard> nice
[20:51:52] <swordsmanz> also with 64 cores its arguable wether you wantt o invest that hevely on a gpu unless your going to ge a 2 or 4 stack of them
[20:51:54] <Xard> yeah... NEVER EVER underestimate the power of rimlight!
[20:52:08] <Xard> ze: you could certainly use some rim lighting
[20:52:22] <ze> rim lighting?
[20:52:25] <Xard> by the way those splashes look awesome!
[20:52:32] <ze> yeah mantaflow is great :)
[20:52:41] <ze> happiest fluid sim experience i've had yet
[20:54:10] <ze> and i've barely scratched the surface
[20:54:17] <swordsmanz> ze agter you crateed you main lighting for your scenne.. the camera faceing lighing that is.. you want to add a low intensity light the the back and side of every part of the scene (vacklighting and rim lighting) it makes everything sharper and adds contrast to the scene
[20:54:49] <Xard> yeah, adding lights to behind and sides helps bringing up the sweet sweet geometry of the splash
[20:56:08] <ze> https://ze.isageek.net/sloshy.webm (or try https://ze.isageek.net/sloshy.mp4 if webm doesn't play for you) previous, lower-res and more basic sim
[20:56:11] <Xard> balance of shadows and light define the shape
[20:56:15] <swordsmanz> bascally itys becouse light reflecs at a tangent .. like irl and in a rendering engine .. so .. if you justtt light from primary directions or use global ilumination .. the edges of things dont get lit at all and look dull (becouse they are in reality getting zero light )
[20:56:19] <ze> i was actually pretty happy with how the lighting shows the fluid geometry here
[20:57:27] <Xard> personally I think it could use some additional lightsources and contrast but that's just me
[20:57:32] <ze> but i'm always open to enhancement, i'll check out what you're talking about
[20:57:50] * swordsmanz cant wait to release his tutorial for the day
[20:58:10] <Xard> I'm trying to look for a decent tutorial which could explain it way better I can in short time :D
[20:58:48] <ze> i'm always reluctant to resort to unrealistic light tricks, like this is lit by sun and sky, why would someone put other lights on there? BUT they would if it achieved their intentions, and also reflectors are a thing for outdoor situations...
[20:59:18] <swordsmanz> Xard: actually is it ok if i take that one for nest week some time ? i dont think anyone has really gone deep into the light theory specifically with reguards to blwender .. and reflection anedgles and stuff and it would be a good one for like an indepth editorial lol
[20:59:24] <Xard> ze: well... you know that studio light setup is a thing in real world as well
[20:59:33] <Xard> when taking product shots etc. :)
[20:59:37] <ze> yeah
[21:00:32] <Xard> swordsmanz: yeah, I ran into the reflections and placement of lights in my LAN-borghini project a lot
[21:00:50] <Xard> cars are relentless and unforgiving when it comes to all of those
[21:01:01] <ze> oo you know, i actually did consider this could be prettied up by pushing it more towards twilight, and then outside lights would be getting turned on, maybe i can incorporate that into these lighting tricks :p
[21:01:23] <Xard> ze you can start by rotating the HDR background
[21:01:34] <swordsmanz> its reflectivity ... anything highly reflective multipies the problem becouse there is no serfice defusion
[21:01:35] <ze> i don't generally use those
[21:01:38] <Xard> that and pushing its contrast can make a lot
[21:02:02] <Xard> or if you use procedural background tweak it
[21:02:25] <ze> right now this is nothing but a sun lamp and a sky-colored world
[21:02:48] <Xard> https://hdrihaven.com/ :D
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[21:03:08] <Xard> you could try using some low resolution HDRI... it should take just couple of minutes to test
[21:03:15] <Xard> that will spice up things A LOT
[21:03:32] <ze> maybe
[21:04:07] <ze> i've never been sold on the idea that hdri's are any better than light/world setups
[21:04:12] <swordsmanz> omg that would be another good tutorial <_< stitching together levles veriations of prior renders to make custom hdr lighitng maps ...
[21:05:09] <ze> mostly they just seem like a shortcut to me
[21:05:22] <ze> maybe a performance optimization, if they are?
[21:05:45] <swordsmanz> https://youtu.be/5cnJk3284Hk you guys get to be the first to check out how to use metaballs to create procedural rocks... if you want
[21:05:56] <ze> cool
[21:06:05] <Xard> ze: personally I have dismissed techniques but I'll give most them a try first
[21:06:24] <ze> Xard: good point
[21:06:39] <Xard> for example sculpting and texture painting aren't my thing
[21:07:03] <Xard> not even if you throw a 1000$ wacom tablet in front of me
[21:07:16] <Xard> it just haven't clicked with me
[21:07:18] <ze> yeah, i personally don't tend to like anything that involves manual fiddling
[21:07:28] <ze> i don't want to comb my hair sims either
[21:07:30] <ze> :P
[21:07:46] <Xard> other is that I'm really reluctant of UV unwrapping
[21:07:53] <ze> same
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[21:08:24] <Xard> http://xard.mbnet.fi/recycled_hero.jpg - just used procedural materials even back over 10 years ago
[21:08:25] <ze> actually i need to mess with a scene using hair now that supposedly collision has been fixed, or so something seemed to indicate
[21:08:40] <ze> hehe cool
[21:08:45] <Xard> thanks ^^
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[21:09:55] <ze> suzanninator says: recycle or be recycled
[21:10:00] <Xard> some fiddling is required with the HDRI's as well like orientation and peak brightness clamping
[21:10:41] <ze> while i'm thinking of it
[21:10:49] * ze sets the filmic contrast a bit higher :p
[21:11:07] <Xard> also you can do following: raise exposure and lower gamma
[21:11:13] <Xard> that's a neat trick
[21:11:49] <Xard> it gives more finer control and looks in most cases better with medium contrast than changing the contrast otherwise
[21:12:08] <ze> hehe yeah i've found that nice in a few cases, but i go back and forth sometimes
[21:12:14] <ze> it all really depends on how the lighting ends up
[21:12:24] <Xard> that's perfectly normal
[21:12:49] <Xard> determining the final result can be really tedious and long process of comparing 10 different takes
[21:12:58] <ze> hehe yeah
[21:12:58] <Xard> and saving intermediate results is a must!
[21:13:19] <ze> unless i'm rendering an animation, i keep autosave renders checked ;p
[21:13:21] <Xard> because then you have the point of reference... or point of shame often my case ;<
[21:13:48] <Xard> "this is how good your rendering looked 5 hours ago, haven't you ruined it enough yet?"
[21:13:55] <ze> haha yeah
[21:14:05] <Xard> part of my workflow
[21:14:42] <ze> i do that a lot with materials in blender, and mixes in a daw :p
[21:14:52] <Xard> and sometimes it's not bad idea to test on multiple monitors even on crappier ones
[21:15:22] <Xard> music and graphics have some interesting overlapping concepts :)
[21:15:35] <ze> yeah
[21:15:46] <ze> i'd love to chat more about it, but i gotta go get ready and it always takes me twice as long as i think :P
[21:15:54] <Xard> sorry
[21:16:07] <ze> nice chatting, more later :)
[21:19:59] <Xard> swordsmanz: interesting concept
[21:20:55] <swordsmanz> Xard: i was worth putitng out there right ?
[21:23:32] <Xard> no complaints with the technical side of things: recording is smooth and you speak very clearly and get to the point
[21:25:58] <Xard> i haven't seen that often people showing / preshowing their blender tutorials here now to think of it
[21:26:13] <Xard> and the end result is impressive
[21:27:15] <Xard> nice work!
[21:27:39] <swordsmanz> i dont reall ythink you can get better rocks for 5 mins a hammer with a sculpt brush and a superfas chuck on of a pbr // a least not rocks tha can be any shape and are not based on a prefav displacement map
[21:28:19] <Xard> that's way faster for larger areas as you can fill the "big picture" with the metaballs really quickly
[21:28:32] <Xard> or boundaries of the formation and the let the modifiers do it's magic
[21:31:18] * swordsmanz acually really hopes that the ediorial submission goes thu on tthat one
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[23:04:06] <ze> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLHk82-Df9M how do i do any of this in blender :p
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[23:10:59] <Yaniel> usually you'd just use the grass particle system
[23:11:03] <Yaniel> uh
[23:11:05] <Yaniel> hair particle system
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[23:12:10] <sst66> And a few gazillion particles
[23:12:30] <ze> usually i would, but when i don't want the geometry, and the top/bottom quadtree or one of the nicer parallax occlusion methods would give satisfactory results for the use...
[23:12:47] <swordsmanz> omg ... i jus submited an aricle o blendenation and metaballs autocorrected to meatballs ....
[23:12:51] <Xard> looks like parallax mapping
[23:13:16] <ze> all i've found for parallax occlusion mapping in blender is complicated node setups implementing it, and the ones that do the better job are non-free afaict
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[23:13:54] <ze> and even those i don't think approach the results of some of these iterations beyond it
[23:14:02] <Xard> most of the node based will be quite messy as they require iterations
[23:14:10] <swordsmanz> ze: there iws a new blender feture comeing out now that is going to change stuff like that
[23:14:10] <ze> like the one with hills and the ball!
[23:14:34] <ze> swordsmanz: oh?
[23:14:49] <swordsmanz> node presets
[23:14:55] <Xard> I've done one parallax node setup myself: http://xard.mbnet.fi/blenderartists/px_decal_test.jpg - http://xard.mbnet.fi/blenderartists/px_decal_test_viewport.jpg
[23:16:21] <ze> so the left one has geometry and the right one is the parallax instead?
[23:16:30] <Xard> no geometry
[23:16:40] <ze> oh both the parallax?
[23:16:43] <Xard> just decal textures
[23:16:44] <Xard> yep
[23:16:50] <ze> i see
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[23:17:08] <ze> ah i was just seeing the wireframe and got confused
[23:17:22] <ze> now it's clear
[23:17:26] <ze> nice
[23:17:26] <Xard> or the viewport shows what is geometry and what is not
[23:17:45] <Xard> I did mirror testing there to see if the effects gets broken
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[23:19:37] <ze> ok time to go, bbl
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   February 15, 2020  
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