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   February 14, 2020  
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[00:00:46] <gripner> can it be im using blender 2.8.1?
[00:06:30] <gripner> or some kind of envirement background/backdrop picture?
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[00:08:21] <ze> yeah if the world is using environment map that's missing, it would probably light everything pink i guess
[00:08:23] <ze> hehe
[00:11:45] <gripner> was a hdr in the shader / World, removed it and pink gone. but still every object is still just white even in material view.......
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[00:12:22] <ze> oh i figured out my volume problem.. it's taking a density value from the sim, which isn't really giving one afaict... unsetting the "density attribute" parameter's fixed it... still odd way to behave to remove the surface and all
[00:12:25] <gripner> and all of them have a texture plugged into base color and Normal in the shader
[00:12:36] <ze> hmm
[00:12:40] <ze> what about rendered view?
[00:14:31] <gripner> same, all just gray
[00:14:54] <gripner> also if i export as collada, all objects exported and materials aswell, but all gray
[00:15:28] <gripner> can it be blender 2.8.1 dont want to read the blend file correct?
[00:15:57] <ze> i dunno
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[01:05:27] <ze> seems weird the mantaflow domain has a real world size setting that just doesn't care what things are already set to to inform that sorta thing... if you make a default, 2 meter cube, into a domain with the default 0.5 real world size setting, does that not act wonky, like maybe seem to run 4x faster than it should or something?
[01:05:47] <ze> i should test i guess and see what happens
[01:05:49] <ze> :p
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[02:28:54] <ze> weird, my rigid body for some reason randomly fails to move the way it normally does
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[02:29:18] <ze> just randomly starts and stops without even changing anything but playback state / frame and stuff like that
[02:29:43] <Aritodo> hmm, cache issue?
[02:29:51] <ze> i mean getting stuck at its start position
[02:29:53] <ze> what cache
[02:30:38] <ze> ah crap there is a cache i never baked or even looked at and is stale
[02:30:40] <ze> :p
[02:30:45] <ze> but i didn't even change anything to affect it
[02:30:49] <Aritodo> if you dont have the physics baked, and you skip frames, it can cause weird issues sometimes, i dont know if this applies to rigid bodies, but i know it does for cloth and particles
[02:30:59] <ze> ok
[02:32:05] <ze> yeah looks like it was being funky
[02:32:09] <ze> thanks
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[02:41:52] <ze> so hmm, if i baked the fluid sim while the output framerate was set to 24fps and then i change that to 30fps have i sped up the sim results and need to rebake it put back to the accurate rate?
[02:41:53] <ze> heh
[02:42:12] <ze> rebake it *to put *it
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[02:42:41] <Aritodo> hmm, you know, im not sure
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[02:44:00] <Aritodo> im mostly a video editor, and if there's one thing you NEVER want to do in the vse, its change the scene framerate after you have an edit going...
[02:44:11] <ze> hehe
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[02:45:31] <ze> well i'll assume the simulation no longer matches the timescale but it won't matter for this, but will make sure to set properly before baking next time hehe
[02:45:40] <Aritodo> i had an absolutely massive edit once, somehow blender decided to change the framerate from 24fps to the friggin stupid 23.98fps...
[02:45:56] <ze> is my brain dropping all the 'to's and 'it's or is my keyboard, geez
[02:46:08] <ze> hah
[02:46:10] <ze> nice
[02:46:11] <Aritodo> all of a sudden, ALL my audio strips were one frame off
[02:46:45] <ze> awesome
[02:46:47] <ze> hehe
[02:47:27] <ze> wow i like how this mantaflow fluid object instantly has subtle natural ripples on its surface that evolve over time even without any particular forces applied
[02:47:38] <ze> looks nice hehe
[02:52:26] <ze> weird how the first frame has a bunch of bubble gunk too though, but it's gone in the 2nd frame... so that's where i started my anim render from :P http://pasteall.org/pic/06497352afd949acf41731f23deb8bf8
[02:52:56] <Aritodo> heh, never know whats going to happen on the first frame of a sim sometimes
[02:58:25] <ze> unrelatedly, something really unsatisfying about my compositing-based portal effect is that light can't bleed across scenes through it... is there any way to do portals in blender where that'll work?
[03:00:56] <Aritodo> hmm
[03:01:18] <ze> it seems like a problem for things traversing the portal too, which i can only figure on doing by moving an object into it in one scene, deleting it there and adding it in the same position to the other scene between frames, and then moving it along in the next scene... but that means it'll have the lighting on it change suddenly between those frames :(
[03:01:48] <Aritodo> what about putting a camera in the portal, rendering the scene from that camera, and dropping that rendered texture/video in as an emitter in the other scene?
[03:02:26] <Aritodo> would need to be re-rendered every time you change the scene... but...
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[03:03:06] <ze> yeah that would be a lot of rendering, and how much can you automate it all?
[03:03:23] <ze> my compositor approach needs 2 renders but it'll do them automatically for each frame
[03:03:25] <ze> heh
[03:05:51] <Aritodo> well, it wouldnt have to be very high samples or high resolution... you might even be able to get away with switching the render to an eevee render
[03:06:10] <ze> how do you setup a camera to render a scene to map on a sphere?
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[03:09:35] <Aritodo> you can set a camera to render an equirectangular image, trying to remember how...
[03:11:16] <Aritodo> hmm, the option has moved...
[03:11:40] <Aritodo> i know you set the camera to panoramic, but you should be able to set something to equirectangular after that
[03:12:02] <Aritodo> oh, only works in cycles
[03:12:09] <ze> https://i.imgur.com/gvS8e3e.gifv i don't think it's obnoxious enough yet :P but demo of my holdout/multi-scene/multi-view layer/compositor based spherical portals
[03:12:41] <Aritodo> yeah, set the camera type to panoramic, then panorama type to one of the options, equirectangular is probably the best
[03:12:51] <ze> ok
[03:13:03] <Aritodo> wow, that is pretty obnoxious, lol
[03:13:17] <ze> i'll play with that after this 14 render :P
[03:13:49] <Aritodo> its a pretty neat trick, you can use it to make your own hdri's
[03:13:58] <ze> nice, thanks
[03:14:34] <ze> https://i.imgur.com/ZtcM80q.jpg the lower screen shows my compositor setup to render and composite both directions at once :P
[03:14:59] <ze> though the compositor nodes are pointless in that setup
[03:15:01] <ze> heh
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[03:15:18] <ze> er the "Composite" nodes
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[03:17:19] <ze> how many years have people been asking to be able to set a camera as a texture, and why can't you? :(
[03:17:21] <ze> heh
[03:17:44] * Aritodo shrugs
[03:18:05] <Aritodo> ah, there it is, i knew i had it somewhere, i made an hdri once - http://www.snuq.com/temp/snu-warehouse.exr
[03:18:13] <Aritodo> 101mb :p
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[03:18:41] <ze> hehe
[03:19:20] <ze> i haven't even used hdri's in anything yet
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[04:11:23] <ze> anyone ever fix old movies?
[04:13:03] <ze> i watched the forbidden planet a few years back, and it's pretty great and even the oldschool effects surprisingly well MOSTLY but for some rotoscoped blaster fire that moves terribly and all it'd need is someone to erase it and paste it back in with better movement and it'd be fine and the movie would perfect :P
[04:13:22] <ze> oldschool effects STAND UP surprisingly well
[04:13:27] <ze> i swear i typed that part
[04:14:23] <ze> the city of lost children has one bit of 90s CG that's awful by todays standards (though surprisingly good for mid-90s imo), and it's tiny, and i think it could easily be replaced these days with something that'd look seamless to the rest of the film
[04:16:49] <ze> the first pirates of the caribbean still stands up as a good film imo but its cg is already horribly dated and could get replaced :P
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[04:49:54] <AurorAWOL> Silly question here but the backup files are always saved in the same directory as the .blend file right? For example if I save it in C:\users\blends the .blend1 file will appear there as well?
[04:52:07] <Verts> ze: The thing about replacing old effects is that most movies will not gain a substansial amound of re-veiwing to warent updating the effects. Movies that ARE popular enough to warrent revising FX run the risk of getting George Lukeas'd; changed more than they needed to be
[04:52:35] <Verts> AurorAWOL: Ya, I belive that is how backups allways work.
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[04:58:38] <AurorAWOL> Thanks Verts. I figured as much.
[04:59:50] <ze> Verts: tbh i think fans of such movies doing the minimal essential improvements is the favorable approach, and it's just too bad it's legally encumbered to evolve culture that way in the free and open :(
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[05:12:17] <AurorAWOL> I've been working on an animated book and am having some trouble getting the meshes to stick to the other meshes. If I just join the emblems on the spine it messes everything up. http://pasteall.org/blend/index.php?id=52901 ideas?
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[05:35:48] <ze> i'm rendering at 720x405 and imgur upscales the anim to 960x540... while also compressing it to trash :( haha
[05:36:35] <ze> 19:57:41 <AurorAWOL> Thanks Verts. I figured as much.
[05:36:42] <ze> Verts: tbh i think fans of such movies doing the minimal essential improvements is the favorable approach, and it's just too bad it's legally encumbered to evolve culture that way in the free and open :(
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[05:50:51] <Pie-jacker875> if I want to use experimental features with ffmpeg video out how do I set the -strict -2 flag?
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[05:55:23] <Pie-jacker875> I was going to just have blender export to pngs and play with ffmpeg later but found out I don't have enough disk space
[05:56:06] <circuitbone> ze: Do you have an account at imgur?
[05:56:08] <circuitbone> https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/2wvorv/til_imgur_compresses_your_images_more_if_you/
[05:56:46] <circuitbone> they compress randoms so the story goes.
[05:58:02] <ze> circuitbone: yes, though it's showing me logged in sometimes and sometimes not, so hmm
[05:58:17] <circuitbone> Maybe another test.
[05:58:40] <ze> ah it is listed in the images in my account, so
[05:59:43] <ze> lemme try again though
[06:00:57] <ze> heh it's uploading it in a very different way, approaching it from a different page :P
[06:01:11] <circuitbone> ok
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[06:05:17] <ze> anyone know of a preferable gif-like-video host?
[06:05:44] <ze> hmm this upload seems stuck
[06:06:32] <Pie-jacker875> host your own http server and scp your gifs/webms to the directory /s
[06:07:13] <Pie-jacker875> don't actually, unless you hate free time
[06:07:28] <ze> heh
[06:07:42] <ze> 248K 5kkN1jl.mp4
[06:07:44] <ze> 304K 5X1QdxR.mp4
[06:07:57] <ze> circuitbone: it did come out slightly bigger the 2nd time, but still upscaled and badly compressed anyway
[06:07:59] <ze> heh
[06:08:54] <circuitbone> Worth a shot mate.
[06:08:58] <ze> yeah thanks
[06:09:02] <circuitbone> np
[06:09:37] <ze> Pie-jacker875: like http://free-zero.yi.org/moon9-2019-11-17.html ? :P
[06:10:42] <ze> it's a pain and some people don't like the weird url and such
[06:11:12] <ze> and then you gotta support compatibility issues yourself
[06:11:14] <ze> heh
[06:11:22] <circuitbone> https://imgrpost.com/ up to 128 megs uncompressed
[06:11:37] <circuitbone> close enough to imgur
[06:11:55] <ze> nice
[06:12:14] <circuitbone> https://www.reddit.com/r/imguralternatives/comments/8k1zy1/is_there_any_uncompressed_image_hosting_service/
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[06:14:43] <ze> hmm well i don't need it to not be compressed, i would hope to upload in lossless so it can do a good job of encoding to multiple platform compatible codecs
[06:15:06] <ze> just that it actually do a good job and not a mis-scaled and overzealous one
[06:15:08] <ze> hehe
[06:15:23] <circuitbone> You are not alone it seems, eg: that article
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[06:22:22] <ze> Including results for animation ghost. Search only for animation "host"?
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[06:24:59] <ze> https://gifyu.com looks like a counterpart to imgrpost hehe
[06:25:13] <ze> though oddly a smaller limit
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[06:27:54] <circuitbone> have fun ;)
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[06:31:18] <ze> oh i misread webp as webm
[06:31:56] <ze> neither url takes an mp4 or webm
[06:31:58] <ze> hehe
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[06:47:14] <AurorAWOL> How would I get the mesh's to "stick" to the spine? http://pasteall.org/pic/b2286037a879378a5e580c59c3739e53 http://pasteall.org/pic/06bab868ddf4fb31b46366dbec39b2b8. I've tried looking stuff up but come up with mixed answers and I am having to relearn blender after being absent for 4 years
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[06:48:47] <ze> i was gonna say the 2nd pic doesn't load, but then i found the stray period
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[06:53:01] <AurorAWOL> I know ittts probaablyy an objject resttraint
[06:53:17] <AurorAWOL> wow. low batteries
[06:54:21] <ze> ok i see what you're going for
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[06:55:31] <ze> how does joining mess it up?
[06:56:04] <AurorAWOL> It does something to the animation. http://pasteall.org/blend/index.php?id=52901 is the blend file
[06:56:56] <ze> i guess i can open a 2nd blender instance while one is busy rendering :P
[06:57:31] <AurorAWOL> I actually made this about 4 years ago and just picked it back up to add the emblems and textures and animation
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[06:59:00] <AurorAWOL> If you have multiple machines I suggest crowd render add on :) I was doing renders that would take 30 min. I added 4 of my other machines to the crowd and got those same renders in 3-4 minutes
[06:59:21] <ze> nice
[07:00:59] <AurorAWOL> Yeah. I even wrote a script for them to only turn on to render then go back to sleep when done. I don't think I need 5 computers running at once unless my furnace goes out haha
[07:01:18] <ze> hehehe sweet
[07:01:35] <ze> i could probably use that on any machines i might be able to recruit
[07:02:30] <ze> the ones i could borrow tend to be asleep, and it'd be best to borrow them overnight and have them clean up after themselves by the morning
[07:04:21] <AurorAWOL> I actually lucked out and had a friend that worked at a transfer station where people would toss their old computers. So for about 3 months I was getting about 20-30 computers a week. It's amazing what rich people throw away.
[07:04:35] <ze> hah yeah
[07:05:30] <AurorAWOL> I have a 800 sq ft garage and almost half of it was filled up with computers at one point lol.
[07:05:35] <ze> i heard someone here's workplace was dumping a large number of computers with the HDs removed for destructive erasing :p
[07:05:52] <ze> i haven't seen them come home yet though
[07:06:08] <ze> hehe
[07:06:17] <AurorAWOL> heh
[07:06:32] <ze> or *any of them rather
[07:07:41] <AurorAWOL> So on that book it would have something to do with constraints right?
[07:08:06] <ze> constraints might be a way to go about it, not sure how to do that sorta thing tbh
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[07:08:53] <ze> ah right i knew i was forgetting something :p
[07:09:19] <AurorAWOL> hah
[07:11:32] <ze> hmm blender #2 is kinda slow while blender #1 is grinding away at frames
[07:11:34] <ze> :p
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[07:22:19] <AurorAWOL> Wish I could help lol. The 4 other computers I have don't have great GPU's but between the 4 of them I have 204 cores and 408 threads lol
[07:22:30] <ze> haha
[07:23:08] <ze> hmm looks like the blender with your file loaded crashed for disabling one of the collections
[07:23:09] <ze> :P
[07:23:41] <AurorAWOL> Probably. It was originally made on 2.76b i think
[07:24:00] <ze> heh
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[07:24:04] <AurorAWOL> Still not sure if I like the collections vs layers yet
[07:24:44] <ze> i can't even imagine using the old layer system tbh
[07:25:01] <ze> it seems so limited and clunky and opaque
[07:26:08] <ze> it's like which these too many and yet too few tiny squares did i put what on and why
[07:26:36] <ze> which of*
[07:27:47] <ze> so i think i got a less scary domain and that lots of things play webm https://ze.isageek.net/ff_preview.webm
[07:28:39] <AurorAWOL> Is that what you just rendered?
[07:28:48] <ze> thats 69/250 frames of it
[07:28:50] <ze> hehe
[07:29:18] <AurorAWOL> I like it. Almost reminded me of the RHSB from youtube lol
[07:29:36] <ze> it gets more interesting as the waves develop and get a little chaotic
[07:30:03] <ze> hehe
[07:30:06] <ze> ah yeah huh
[07:30:17] <ze> nice idea
[07:30:39] <ze> i'll have to ponder that
[07:30:41] <ze> hehe
[07:31:08] <AurorAWOL> Alll you need is the https://www.blendswap.com/blend/14664
[07:31:14] <ze> i wonder if you could maybe put a wind forcefield constrained to the ball
[07:31:31] <ze> heheh
[07:32:18] <ze> wow that reminds me that i've been thinking of playing with how close i could approximate glassblowing but i hadn't even thought about rendering glowing hot glass mmm :P
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[07:32:36] <ze> should be easy and fun
[07:32:38] <ze> heh
[07:33:01] <AurorAWOL> :D
[07:33:07] <ze> not like the simulation part which'll probably be hard and frustrating :P
[07:33:27] <AurorAWOL> I'm mad at blendswap tbh. The denied my upload.
[07:33:32] <ze> oh?
[07:33:57] <AurorAWOL> Yeah... I rendered the default cube. But I made it blue haha
[07:34:07] <ze> heh :P
[07:34:35] <AurorAWOL> I was just curious if the would accept it cause of their now "high standards"
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[09:33:16] <ze> so i did a design i sometimes like and put it on a quick mockup :P https://i.imgrpost.com/imgr/2020/02/14/2020-02-14-002851.png
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[09:42:09] <Beznell> Im getting 5-10 seconds added onto rendering times compared to October last year
[09:42:20] <Beznell> Cant figure out why its like that
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[09:46:13] <Tehrasha> you mean with 2.82 ?
[09:50:43] <Beznell> Im on 2.81 currently but I guess I should try Dev builds
[09:52:32] <Tehrasha> i thought maybe you had recently updated and were seeing the slowdown...
[09:52:47] <Tehrasha> but you are runnign the same version you had in October...
[09:56:41] <Beznell> I was running a diff version in October
[09:56:55] <Beznell> And now im on 2.81a
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[11:06:47] <hio> the 2.80 beta gui was better than this, they had shortcuts on every button. What happend, now I have no idea how to switch to edit mode
[11:07:03] <hio> where can I download the first beta for 2.80?
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[11:13:19] <charolastra> tabulator doesn't work anymore?
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[11:13:36] <hio> yes it does but there is no tooltip to tell me that
[11:13:45] <hio> also why doesnt it show the scripting info for the buttons
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[11:14:04] <hio> there was a version that showed me the bpy python stuff in the tooltip, that is gone. This is important for me
[11:14:37] <charolastra> maby you need a dev build for that now
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[11:25:58] <Tehrasha> isnt the bpy.python header an option that you turn on now?
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[11:27:03] <Tehrasha> Edit-->Preferences-->Interface-->Display--> [ ] Python Tooltips
[11:30:09] <hio> thanks
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[11:36:54] <highadder> Blender ok let learn this - how bout it?
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[12:04:42] <AurorAWOL> Happy V-day http://pasteall.org/pic/d001a03831c65a38d0c9ffe1cb1008dd
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[18:56:10] <ze> there it finished https://ze.isageek.net/sloshy.webm
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[19:00:33] <Aritodo> water looks cool, tho the lack of any bounce or rolling of the ball after it lands is a bit jarring
[19:01:25] <Xard> for some I get an impression that the water area is really tiny
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[19:03:52] <ze> Aritodo: how springy should an iron ball be? i guess some tiny bounce would be appropriate hmm
[19:04:12] <ze> i'm a little surprised it doesn't roll any, it's a rigid body icosphere, must be oriented to land on a facet?
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[19:05:07] <ze> Xard: it's 2 meters across, looks plausible for the scale to me
[19:05:39] <ze> though a higher res simulation might do better, that was the default
[19:05:51] <Xard> something about the resolution/viscosity of the water gives the impression
[19:06:13] <Aritodo> i think even if its a solid iron ball, there would be some sort of movement and small bounce when it lands
[19:06:22] <ze> Aritodo: yeah
[19:06:34] <Xard> and the water should damp the movement
[19:07:01] <Aritodo> sure, but the fall in the water is so short that you cant really tell
[19:07:27] <Aritodo> if it is heavy enough, the water would not have enough time to really slow it down a noticable amount
[19:07:28] <Xard> if the object was light weight the movement of the water should shake it around a bit
[19:07:47] <ze> i can see it not rolling, i've seen balls dropped straight onto flat surfaces and if it's a straight drop and they're both smooth enough the ball has nothing to make it roll any particular way... but yeah, that it happens under ideal circumstances doesn't argue it should be simulated that way ;p
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[19:08:04] <ze> good tips, i'll use them in the future, thanks :)
[19:08:23] <ze> yes, the water affecting rigid bodies is something i'm wondering about
[19:08:26] <Aritodo> indeed, you dont want 'perfect' circumstances in a sim, it looks too fake :)
[19:08:38] <ze> they've traditionally said it can't, is that still true in mantaflow?
[19:08:50] <Xard> it's the little imperfections here and there
[19:09:24] <ze> if it's still the case i guess one would have to fake it?
[19:10:00] <ze> i was thinking if i wanted to simulate the water slowing the ball down, i'd make an invisible soft body maybe? but that sorta trickery'll never cover every case or get all the details right :/
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[19:10:45] <Xard> or heavy constant wind under the water simulating the lift?
[19:11:40] <ze> ah that's a good idea, maybe forcefields in general would be the best fakery to approach it with
[19:11:48] <Aritodo> yeah, i was thinking force fields in the water too
[19:11:52] <Xard> forcefields are quite versatile
[19:12:08] <Aritodo> you could also use a turbulence forcefield to get the ball to roll a bit
[19:12:14] <Xard> indeed
[19:12:18] <ze> cool idea
[19:13:10] <Aritodo> i dont know if those forcefields will affect the water by default tho, you may need to disable that so your water doesnt end up spouting upwards
[19:13:21] <ze> right
[19:13:47] <ze> can you only do that with field weights or is there something more granular?
[19:13:48] <Xard> this might "sound" weird but sounds are quite important part as well if you want to create credible output
[19:13:54] <Xard> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMo7pkkaZ9o
[19:13:55] <ze> Xard: oh, totally
[19:14:13] <Xard> even more than the actual simulation it seems
[19:15:51] <ze> i love these two minute papers
[19:16:12] <Xard> the examples are some much more impressive with sound on than sound off
[19:16:22] <Xard> it's quite scary
[19:17:25] <ze> mmm that's so good, where do i get this
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[19:23:06] <ze> oh i could probably point the water to use one collection of forces i do want to affect it, and point other things at a different collection for stuff i don't want to affect the water, huh
[19:23:41] <Aritodo> wow, impressive stuff
[19:24:17] <Aritodo> ive done some audio work for sims before, it can be quite a long process to line up the sound effects with the sim
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[19:27:48] <ze> wasn't there some way to trigger things on collision, or was that a game engine thing or something
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[19:28:41] <Aritodo> hmm, i dont know
[19:29:30] <ze> otherwise i was thinking maybe dynamic paint could be hacked to record a sequence of impacts
[19:29:33] <ze> hehe
[19:29:37] <ze> and processed to do something with that
[19:29:39] <ze> :P
[19:29:45] <Aritodo> would be a nice feature, even if i could set it to just trigger a one frame burst of noise to aid in manually syncing more appropriate sounds
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[19:30:07] <Aritodo> or output markers on hits or something
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[19:34:56] <ze> yeah
[19:37:38] <Xard> while this might not be a new feature I noticed I can layer workbench in single layer pass as cavity shading over eevee rendering... sweet!
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[19:40:34] <ze> hmm there's actually a 'drag' field but it's behaving very strangely
[19:40:36] <ze> heh
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[19:45:29] <ze> its behavior seems to change to different things at random as i adjust stuff that should just make small differences
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[19:49:04] <ze> like i set a maximum distance for the falloff, and i move it along z so that it shows a top aligned with the water level, and then it works fine except that it seems to start slowing the ball down higher than it should, so i move it down a little to compensate, and suddenly it starts bouncing the ball completely away or just dragging it to a stop instantly, despite having the same settings otherwise
[19:49:32] <Xard> it's the pain when the simulations work like that
[19:49:57] <Xard> that when you kind of have control over the result but then again it's that things just happen differently in random manner and that's it
[19:50:59] <Aritodo> hmm, never used the drag one, sounds nice but very odd
[19:52:22] <ze> i probably just don't understand it correctly somehow
[19:52:24] <ze> heh
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[19:56:06] <ze> i think as i increase the bounciness of the sphere, it actually bounces off of the drag force when it reaches it ....
[19:56:19] <ze> i guess that might make sense but still it's weird :P
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[20:06:06] <Aritodo> huh. yeah, weird
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[20:12:32] <ze> i mean, thinking of a balloon hitting a wall of denser air or something, or a water surface... yeah it would bounce, so i guess it's correct
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[20:17:57] <Aritodo> hmm, yeah, when the density of the surface is above the kinetic energy and mass of the object, that does make sense
[20:18:27] <Aritodo> that would have to be some DENSE liquid to bounce a metal ball tho :)
[20:18:38] <ze> hehe
[20:19:09] <Yaniel> I'd mainly expect it to sway back and forth a little
[20:19:14] <Yaniel> it's not like it's embedded in the floor
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[20:20:33] <ze> hmm yeah maybe, though being in the center the forces might be pretty well balanced, but that's again an ideal that's bad for simulation :P
[20:21:01] <Yaniel> yeah it'd have to be absolutely perfectly in the center
[20:23:32] <Aritodo> and the surface it hit would have to be absolutely perfectly flat, heh
[20:23:42] <ze> :p
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[20:24:04] <Aritodo> which doesnt fit the visuals of the surface either, being that it looks like some sort of granite tiles
[20:24:33] <ze> ah good point, those tiles aren't (visually) flat
[20:24:40] <ze> the physics doesn't know that cause it's just bumpmapping
[20:24:42] <ze> hehe
[20:24:55] <Aritodo> i think if it was landing on a perfect glass or mirror surface, it would be more believable that it wouldnt move
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[20:25:12] <Yaniel> also it looks like it falls way too fast once it's under water
[20:25:19] <Yaniel> almost like it outright accelerates once it hits the surface
[20:25:24] <Yaniel> while it should do the opposite
[20:25:31] <Aritodo> Yaniel: yeah, he's working on that with a drag forcefield
[20:25:41] <ze> if i could just get this drag to work i think it'd take care of most of the desired effects, just a little noise parameter in there and stuff to make it turbulent
[20:25:47] <Yaniel> because 1) huge drag 2) losing weight due to displacing water
[20:26:12] <Yaniel> *buoyancy
[20:26:27] <ze> can't fluids just interact with rigid bodies :(
[20:28:28] <Aritodo> that would be a very complex sim since it would essentially be a recursive interaction
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[20:28:44] <Aritodo> ie - water affects the movement of rigid body, rigid body's movement affects the water
[20:28:54] <ze> yeah, but rigid bodies do it to each other
[20:29:01] <Aritodo> true
[20:29:22] <Aritodo> but the rigid body sim is all one code base, the fluid sim is an entirely different section
[20:29:26] <ze> in the case of a fluid, if you look at the fluid particles, that's probably the number of rigid bodies it'd be equivalent to simulating...
[20:29:58] <Aritodo> not saying its impossible, just saying it would be a complex problem to solve
[20:30:03] <ze> yeah
[20:30:41] <Yaniel> water especially has a bunch of other relevant forces acting between particles that generic rigid bodies don't have
[20:30:51] <ze> true
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[20:33:10] <Aritodo> hmm, i think it could be accomplished if there were a specific fluid sim object type, 'moveable object' or something, and the fluid sim would effectively generate forcefield-style forces on that object
[20:33:25] <Aritodo> that should in theory work along with the other sims
[20:34:08] <ze> so kinda like setting an object as a fluid effector, but you also set it as an effectee?
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[20:34:58] <Aritodo> fluid effector?
[20:35:42] <ze> yeah, you enable fluid on an object, and the type dropdown (for mantaflow) has none, domain, flow, and effector
[20:36:05] <Aritodo> i dont have mantaflow, is it a custom build or something?
[20:36:06] <ze> this ball is set as an effector so that the liquid responds to it... but it's just the one-directional action
[20:36:43] <ze> i'm using a git build of the main branch, i think it's in the latest alpha build, maybe in the beta version, not sure
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[20:37:11] <Aritodo> oh, i stick to the current releases
[20:37:24] <ze> it's replacing the old fluid system in the next version or 2
[20:37:30] <Aritodo> too dangerous in a production environment to use alpha releases often :)
[20:37:30] <ze> afaik
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[20:44:41] <ze> man there's so much there to fiddle and poke at and figure out
[20:44:56] <Aritodo> blender in a nutshell
[20:45:03] <ze> i wonder if mantaflow can do things i just haven't seen anything about yet
[20:45:06] <ze> hehe
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[20:53:14] <ze> whoa
[20:54:20] <ze> i just noticed one of the fields is smoke flow "create a force based on smoke simulation air flow"
[20:55:46] <ze> since mantaflow does the only smoke sim in the mantaflow versions, it's gotta be part of it right?
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[21:01:56] <ze> "It is very common for the affected objects to build up enough kinetic energy to bounce themselves out of camera (and into orbit, although the physics engine is not yet capable of simulating a planet’s gravity well, so scratch that)."
[21:02:19] <ze> unrelated to any of that but funny :P
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[21:03:40] <Aritodo> haha
[21:04:22] <Aritodo> i know exactly what they mean tho, seen plenty of times in physics sims where an object will shudder for a minute, then POW!
[21:04:30] <ze> yep
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[21:04:48] <ze> my ball was flying off the boundary of the drag to that extent sometimes
[21:05:08] <Aritodo> obligitory skyrim giant launch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxpuR2v_png
[21:05:13] <ze> haha
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[21:05:58] <ze> hehe
[21:07:23] <ze> ah you can add force fields directly to objects, including the fluid, and it has some different options that way too hmm
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[21:08:12] <Aritodo> oh really? does it actually change the forcefield domain along with the fluid sim?
[21:08:50] <Aritodo> now that i think about it, i remember seeing a demo of an object floating in a fluid sim, maybe try looking up a tutorial on that?
[21:09:05] <Aritodo> not sure if it was a faked thing, or if it was an actual sim tho
[21:09:22] <AurorAWOL> I have been messing around with blender on and off for a long time... Strangely enough I actually never looked up the meaning. Here for years I thought CGI was "Computer graphics interface" I just looked up the meaning. My life is a lie ;)
[21:09:50] <ze> it looks like it is doing so, the ball looks like it drops inimpeded until it reaches the fluid and then it slows and stops (rather more extremely than it should, regardless of the force settings, but it was doing that on its own anyway :P)
[21:10:11] <ze> AurorAWOL: oh, computer generated imagery, right?
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[21:10:18] <AurorAWOL> Yeah haha
[21:10:43] <ze> didn't you ever think it was weird when people talked about the cgi in movies and stuff? :p
[21:11:04] <ze> or did you just think, gosh those were cool UIs
[21:11:06] <ze> :P
[21:11:15] <AurorAWOL> Right!
[21:12:16] <ze> heheh
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[21:13:43] <AurorAWOL> Happy V-Day http://pasteall.org/pic/9f15f7258ec0748fad17727560f893d4
[21:14:20] <Yaniel> wait why is that inner heart pixelated
[21:14:45] <Yaniel> is this an eevee render?
[21:15:12] <AurorAWOL> Yers
[21:15:14] <AurorAWOL> Yes
[21:15:18] <scorpion811> lol CGI is also some data exchange standard between webserver and 3rd party software, Common Gateway Interface.... man, am I old lol :P
[21:15:18] <ze> oh the aliasing
[21:15:31] <ze> scorpion811: ah yes, good ol cgi-bin
[21:15:39] <ze> you don't see that much anymore
[21:15:41] <ze> hehe
[21:15:45] <ze> still there though :P
[21:15:55] <scorpion811> yup, majority is on PHP those days
[21:17:24] <Yaniel> mod_fastcgi
[21:18:23] <AurorAWOL> I ended up using eevee cause it was late and I was being lazy to set up lighting so I just threw an HRDI and called it good lol
[21:18:58] <scorpion811> lol theoretically you *could* put blender in a cgi-bin and let a webserver interact with it... kinda :D but enough of web talk in blender channel now lol
[21:29:14] <ze> RuntimeError: GridCg::iterate: The CG solver diverged, residual norm > 1e30, stopping.
[21:29:59] <ze> wow getting a lot of this during fluid baking with this setup, and then it crashes instantly upon trying if i even just increase the drag factors
[21:30:33] <ze> oh half-way through this bake it's switched to
[21:30:35] <ze> RuntimeError: too many temp grids used -- are they released properly ?
[21:30:49] <Aritodo> it is alpha after all
[21:30:53] <ze> yeah
[21:32:36] <ze> ah and then it did crash anyway :/
[21:33:48] <ze> man this fluid drag field seems kinda promising if it would work
[21:41:02] <ze> weird, i got to work twice where once it had too much drag or not enough weight and the ball stopped just below the surface... and another time where i increased the weight and it dropped straight through almost unimpeded...
[21:41:10] <ze> but now it just crashes every time the bake either starts or finishes :(
[21:41:12] <Xard> http://xard.mbnet.fi/b28_eevee_wb_shading_test.jpg - eevee + workbench shading test
[21:41:41] <ze> looks neat
[21:41:55] <Xard> the workbench cavity is just so nice spice for NPR
[21:42:08] <ze> ah yeah
[21:42:21] <ze> i was playing with workbench last night and thought the cavity checkbox could be cool for things
[21:43:31] <ze> need to use workbench to render this design for it to look right :) https://i.imgur.com/i8hKfNH.png
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[21:43:43] <Xard> nice!
[21:44:03] <ze> thanks hehe
[21:44:30] <Xard> it could use some refining but the concept is good
[21:44:49] <ze> the mockup is terrible, but as far as the design itself goes, what would you refine?
[21:45:28] <Xard> shading, outlines and font placing and size probably
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[21:47:04] <Xard> when 2.8 launched I couldn't get over how nice the workbench looked and played it: http://xard.mbnet.fi/b28_rt_workbench.jpg
[21:48:03] <ze> nice
[21:48:22] <Xard> thanks!
[21:48:39] <ze> that does look good, is that just workbench somehow or eevee too?
[21:48:54] <Xard> just workbench
[21:48:59] <Xard> and some compositor nodes
[21:48:59] <ze> all the design variants i came up with so far: https://i.imgur.com/oxxj80b.png https://i.imgur.com/VbKZVEs.png https://i.imgur.com/uyKnbvV.png https://i.imgur.com/mzt9OL5.png
[21:49:24] <ze> out of those i liked the one i mocked up the best, but i obviously didn't vary many parameters :p
[21:49:24] <Xard> because the 2.80 didn't support mixing render engines at first
[21:49:33] <ze> ah
[21:49:35] <ze> very cool
[21:49:54] <Xard> of course via saving output to images but I don't quite like that kind of workflow
[21:50:24] <Xard> I like the second of those best
[21:50:43] <ze> which is the one in the mockup too right?
[21:50:58] <Xard> i think anything else than blender default font would make it look better but then again isn't it there for a purpose?
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[21:51:39] <ze> i almost changed the font first thing, but then i decided to wait, and then once i got this far i thought there was something fitting about leaving things as default as possible :p
[21:52:36] <ze> but i feel like the text is too big for that size of image, probably want it to be pocket-sized for this relative text scale... or to shrink the text for a full size image
[21:52:38] <Aritodo> i like the idea of using the bfont actually, its another layer of inside joke
[21:52:45] <Aritodo> i just dont like the positioning of the text
[21:52:52] <Xard> Aritodo: exactly
[21:52:58] <Xard> about the idea*
[21:53:02] <Xard> could the font be smaller?
[21:53:22] <ze> one thing i didn't try is just stacking the text in a column on the side, which while basic might still look nice
[21:53:40] <ze> or just putting it across the top and/or bottom
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[21:53:54] <Aritodo> i would do something like, put the 'first' on the top, and the rest under it
[21:54:08] <ze> yeah, i think i'll try that
[21:54:49] <Aritodo> the colors are horrible, but i blame blender for giving us those defaults, haha
[21:54:54] <ze> :P
[21:55:18] <Xard> there's not much room so you need to be quite creative with the design
[21:56:23] <ze> things i like about the design i favored: it makes your eyes zigzag across it, and it looks like a turtle or something ;p
[21:56:48] <Aritodo> what about adding the grid to it as well?
[21:56:59] <ze> hmm nice idea
[21:57:12] <ze> it would have to like fade around the edges or have a border though right?
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[21:57:20] <Xard> i kind of like that the text anchors are tiedo to cube verticies
[21:57:42] <Aritodo> sure, a bit of a fade out on it
[21:57:50] <Xard> grid floor <3
[21:58:13] <Aritodo> ill have to play around with the idea if i have some time too, id love to have a shirt with that on it
[21:58:48] <ze> cool
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[21:59:36] <ze> crap, blender's just not gonna stop crashing now on the same thing that worked like twice
[22:00:03] <ze> oh well, time to put it aside for a while
[22:00:14] <ze> thanks for the help and good ideas
[22:00:50] <ze> Xard: ah yeah, i like the cube vertices thing too :)
[22:01:11] <Aritodo> ze: post whatever you come up with on the shirt idea, looking forward to some iterations :)
[22:01:25] <ze> Aritodo: cool, will do :)
[22:01:46] <Xard> add 3d cursor?
[22:01:53] <Xard> and pivot point?
[22:02:14] <ze> heheh
[22:02:19] <Aritodo> hmm, i was thinking about stuff like that, and the lamp, but at the same time we dont want to make it too busy
[22:02:32] <ze> yeah, also the fewer colors the better for shirt printing usually
[22:02:58] <ze> depending on the print tech anyway
[22:03:01] <Aritodo> keeping it clean is good, its just a little TOO clean atm, heh
[22:03:21] <Xard> you can get away with stylized output quite nicely
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[22:03:43] <Xard> i mean this worked out on shirt just fine: http://xard.mbnet.fi/jlan_tshirts/2020/final.jpg
[22:04:20] <ze> i wouldn't wanna try to silkscreen that though ;p
[22:04:28] <Xard> of course the quality degraded but really not that much
[22:06:00] <Aritodo> awesome, no idea whats up with the... rj45 plug?
[22:06:04] <Aritodo> on the hood
[22:06:12] <Xard> it's LAN-borghini :D
[22:06:17] <Xard> get it?
[22:06:19] <Aritodo> ooooooooh
[22:06:23] <Aritodo> *groan*
[22:06:28] <Xard> it's a lan party shirt
[22:07:53] <Xard> though i think i've done too many works with rj45 coords: http://xard.mbnet.fi/b28_ethie3_1.jpg
[22:08:25] <Xard> so it's kind of thing I do
[22:08:54] <Aritodo> heh, cute
[22:08:59] <Xard> http://xard.mbnet.fi/b28_ethie3_2.jpg
[22:09:21] <Xard> those are eevee realtime, no composite nodes
[22:12:41] <jaggz> Aritodo!!!!
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[22:14:04] <Aritodo> jaggz???? :p
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[22:14:59] <jaggz> :L
[22:19:30] <ze> oh, nice... i kinda thought it was a space invaders graphic or something :P
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[23:19:03] <Na_Klar> I have a complex edit in the video sequencer. All edits are made from one movie source. I absolutely need to change the movie source to a image-sequence source while keeping the edits. Please tell me there is a way, so I don't have to reproduce the whole edit with the image-sequence source.
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[23:23:08] <jaggz> Na_Klar, you deal with python?
[23:23:19] <Na_Klar> jaggz: some bit
[23:23:22] <jaggz> i suspect that might be your only hope but I'm not sure
[23:23:31] <Na_Klar> how tho?
[23:24:38] <Aritodo> Na_Klar: the only way i know of to do this is to change the source of each strip in the sequencer
[23:25:06] <Aritodo> this could be automated with python with a basic iteration
[23:25:16] <Aritodo> i dont think there's another way to do it
[23:25:31] <Na_Klar> Artodo: that's not the problem. I would change the source in each strip. But I can't change from movie to image-sequence source.
[23:25:49] <Na_Klar> *Aritodo
[23:25:51] <Aritodo> sure you can
[23:26:01] <Aritodo> i just tried it out, works fine
[23:26:17] <Aritodo> actaully, i only tired it with a single image, not an image sequence
[23:26:23] <Na_Klar> how? the Edit Strip Window won't let me change the type and if I change the path it expects the movie's data name.
[23:27:00] <Aritodo> hmm, yeah, doesnt seem to accept an image sequence
[23:27:15] <Na_Klar> yeah ... :/
[23:27:42] <Na_Klar> blender seems to expect a single file for the movie type
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[23:28:23] <Aritodo> well... i guess you could still do it with a python iteration, it would just be rather more complex as you would have to copy over all the changed variables
[23:28:40] <jaggz> C.scene.sequence_editor.active_strip.type
[23:29:17] <jaggz> can't just change the type then the source?
[23:29:20] <Aritodo> jaggz: you cant set that variable
[23:29:29] <Na_Klar> Yes, that could be a way. I'm afraid it won't be able to adapt the edit data to the image-sequence without further hacking tho.
[23:29:33] <jaggz> oh it's readonly
[23:29:35] <jaggz> yeah
[23:29:36] <Na_Klar> oh ..
[23:29:44] <Na_Klar> then that won't do it ofc
[23:29:44] <jaggz> hm
[23:29:53] <Aritodo> i dont know of a way to convert image strips between types, unfortunately
[23:29:57] <jaggz> then you google for blender bpy change strip type
[23:30:13] <jaggz> throw vse in that search too :)
[23:30:15] <Aritodo> vse strips between types rather
[23:30:43] <jaggz> it's quite likely other data is allocated for the purpose.. and changing types isn't so trivial
[23:31:10] <Aritodo> well, if i ever implemented an edl importer, you could just export it, edit the edl text, then import it back... but my edl script only does export right now, heh
[23:31:10] <Na_Klar> that's a pity. I hoped there would be a common way. ... as a workaround I can still convert my image-sequence in some raw movie container. this should then allow me to change the source (without changing the type)
[23:32:27] <Aritodo> Na_Klar: for future reference, if you think you might be needing to change the video input/type after editing in a file, you can use a sequencer type scene strip and edit that
[23:32:35] <Na_Klar> that edl edit would be quite helpful tbqh
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[23:33:10] <Aritodo> http://www.snuq.com/3d/screencasts/vse%20scene%20strips.mkv <-- doesnt help you this time, but it could in the future...
[23:33:23] <Na_Klar> Aritodo: that sounds interesting. I will look into that. Scene script ..
[23:35:12] <Na_Klar> Aritodo: ah, that's quite clever. maybe a pain in the bum for many input files, but on the other hand worth the efford if you have to change something there.
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[23:36:04] <Aritodo> sure, it could be automated with a python script too
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[23:36:33] <Na_Klar> thank you all. quick clearance.
[23:36:46] <Aritodo> i think ill write a one-off script to convert the selected strips into those, i already have one that will convert strips into compositor scene strips
[23:37:30] <Aritodo> Na_Klar: i cant say if i will have time to work on it tonight, but if i do, ill put it here - http://www.snuq.com/scripts/scriptshortcut/buttons/vse/
[23:37:46] <Aritodo> or, you can modify the create composite from scene strip script if you know a bit of python
[23:38:08] <Na_Klar> oh, great. I'll bookmark the link and have a look from time to time. if it is there, it is most likely not too late for me ;)
[23:39:03] <Aritodo> those scripts are meant to be run with my script shortcut addon, but they should run from a text area in blender too
[23:39:05] <Na_Klar> (have to convert 1.5tbyte image-sequnce material. will take a while)
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[23:39:14] <Na_Klar> I see
[23:39:45] <Aritodo> https://github.com/snuq/Script-Shortcut if you are interested, it just lets you run short python code snippets as a button easily
[23:40:21] <Na_Klar> thanks a lot. scripts like this can be insanely helpful.
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[23:42:27] <Aritodo> oh yeah, i guess i should have just pointed you at that git repo rather than the link on my page, those button scripts are a bit outdated
[23:42:43] <Aritodo> but the ones on the git repo should be up to date
[23:43:40] <Aritodo> go ahead and forget the link on snuq.com, lol
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[23:50:51] <Na_Klar> ok ^^ thx
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   February 14, 2020  
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