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[00:57:16] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/28/dr_who_beats_torrents/
[01:08:22] <The_8472> in HD?
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[01:22:50] <K`Tetch_> whats funny, TheSHAD0W, I'll be at a sci fi con this weekend, last year they simucast it at the convention as well, this year, doesn't look like it
[01:23:00] <K`Tetch_> despite having McCoy and Barrowman there
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[03:13:19] <screwwdriver> hey room
[03:13:24] <DeHackEd> hey user
[03:13:48] <screwwdriver> can someone explain to me why my torrent, without any external influence, went from going at about 600 kb/s to 200 as depicted here over 1 hour http://i.imgur.com/1BFKX.png
[03:15:03] <DeHackEd> could be any number of things, from ISP throttling to internet congestion to the fact that most of those users are on cable/DSL internet connections and have shitty upload speeds.
[03:16:14] <screwwdriver> ADSL would be the ones with shitty upload speeds- no?
[03:16:39] <screwwdriver> my isp is not throttoling, altho, i have entered 'peak' time
[03:16:46] <screwwdriver> so that is an interesting thought
[03:17:07] <DeHackEd> moreso usually, but the architecture of cable internet is interesting...
[03:17:29] <screwwdriver> how does it work
[03:17:47] <DeHackEd> downstream and upstream run on different frequencies, and require different pieces of hardware to operate
[03:18:10] <screwwdriver> :P
[03:18:28] <screwwdriver> btw, i suppose cranking up my upload speed wont do much on this torrent?
[03:18:38] <screwwdriver> in the way of my down speed
[03:18:46] <DeHackEd> some manufacturers have distinct "downstream" and "upstream" modules for the ISP router. given limited physical capacity and being cheap, plus the fact that internet usage is highly asymmetrical to begin with... intentionally building it to have limited upstream capacity might be economically sound
[03:19:18] <DeHackEd> upload should probably be set to around 80% of your real maximum. any more and downstream suffers
[03:20:17] <DeHackEd> of course it varies. if you have a 50 megabit download and 1 megabit upload limit... you're already riding the maximum
[03:20:50] <screwwdriver> i can get 90 kb/s as my 'real max', but i tested it in utorrents tester it and the best i was getting was about 50 kb/s
[03:21:33] <DeHackEd> so on a big popular torrent, you're getting nowhere near either limit
[03:22:02] <screwwdriver> nah internet is slow as sh!t in australia -> the fastest that i have ever seen a download consistently go at was 1.7 megabytes per second
[03:22:28] <DeHackEd> god bless akamai
[03:22:29] <screwwdriver> so on conversion thats 13 Mbps
[03:23:57] <screwwdriver> is that ur isp?
[03:24:08] <DeHackEd> no. they're a content delivery network
[03:24:20] <screwwdriver> so like bit torrent?
[03:24:35] <DeHackEd> australia may have poor connectivity to the outside world, but that's no excuse for stuff that originates from aussieland to be slow to aussie users.
[03:25:15] <DeHackEd> they have storage all over the world and when you try to get a file from one of their customers (and a lot of big sites are customers) they direct you to the nearest local copy
[03:25:21] <K`Tetch_> you may also have lost a fast peer
[03:25:40] <screwwdriver> how do i *stay* connected to a fast peer
[03:26:06] <DeHackEd> you can't. if they want to leave, you can't stop them
[03:26:15] <screwwdriver> thats true :P
[03:26:58] <screwwdriver> well when i log onto aussie pages typically theyre fast. actually most things are fast enough on this computer im using, including youtube
[03:27:25] <screwwdriver> no complaints in the way of going onto individual pages theyre usually instant
[03:27:32] <screwwdriver> im on chrome btw
[03:28:06] <screwwdriver> but ive tested our internets max speed at about 13.6 megabits/second
[03:28:44] <screwwdriver> & about 90 Kbps up.
[03:29:14] <screwwdriver> err.. 720 megabits/second
[03:29:28] <screwwdriver> yeh :D
[03:30:10] <DeHackEd> that's about par for a cheap hard drive's max throughput
[03:32:11] <screwwdriver> THATS also interesting cause ive been beginning to suspect this computers architecture & hard drive is fairly cheap crap since my folks got it in 2007 from hong kong although ive done some stuff to it to make it faster
[03:32:42] <DeHackEd> I mean 720 megabits per secons is a lot. that's like 80 megabytes a second
[03:32:56] <screwwdriver> its 90 megabytes per second *uploading*
[03:33:20] <screwwdriver> usb transfer rates are usually around 20/30 megabytes per second
[03:33:30] <DeHackEd> that's normal for USB
[03:33:39] <DeHackEd> didn't know you had gigabit internet over there
[03:35:29] <screwwdriver> in australia?
[03:35:35] <screwwdriver> i dont think we do.
[03:35:51] <DeHackEd> then I'm confused and should stop talking about it
[03:35:57] <screwwdriver> btw i was nearly going to get this file: http://i.imgur.com/J4dsR.png - do you think that wouldve been pointless
[03:36:40] <DeHackEd> I have no idea what the heck that is...
[03:37:26] <screwwdriver> m2ts, i figured it was uncompressed video
[03:38:51] <screwwdriver> i changed my mind tho when i found out the subs wouldnt be hard in there.
[03:40:45] <screwwdriver> its alright. i suppose i can always get it later.
[03:40:59] <screwwdriver> if theres anything thats anal in australia its our quota limits
[03:41:24] <screwwdriver> on top of our anal quota limits -> are uploads, are in fact, included as part of our 'download quota'
[03:41:56] <screwwdriver> thats what makes me anal about my torrent upload throttle
[03:42:43] <screwwdriver> so in this particular download - ive uploaded over a gigabyte so far. thats a gigabyte i wont get back for downloading
[03:44:31] <DeHackEd> Some days I imagine the internet would be a little bit better of people could share their wifi in some useful way... like if the guy next door was downloading the same torrent, you could connect and get some channeling going
[03:45:19] <DeHackEd> (course I don't even know my next door neighbours so it's not a good argument)
[03:48:19] <screwwdriver> well i used to leech my next door neighbours internet :P (before they put a key on it)
[03:48:46] <DeHackEd> don't do that at my house
[03:49:33] <screwwdriver> then, a few years ago, i took my mothers mini-laptop really late at night and walked up the street and 'scanned' for other keyless internet, i couple a few but only a couple had a robust connection, and i managed to get a couple of movies using that method.
[03:49:45] <screwwdriver> that was a fun experiment
[03:50:06] <screwwdriver> you could've even called me the data bandit
[03:56:29] <screwwdriver> um what the hell happened here: http://i.imgur.com/mcpyX.png
[04:00:59] <DWKnight> probably an availability drop
[04:01:13] <DWKnight> unless your net/router died
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[04:18:24] <screwwdrivver> im back
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[07:22:15] <dysfunction> Hiya folks. Had a quick question. Is there any way to modify a torrent file so only selected files come up when it fetches them?
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[11:56:50] <WormDr1nk> hi
[11:57:00] <WormDr1nk> anybody know of a tool that extracts torrents from other files
[11:57:24] <WormDr1nk> say like blizzard setup - it has torrent embedded - want to extract it and downoad with my own client
[12:01:29] <WormDr1nk> where can I find specification for bittorent files
[12:02:40] <WormDr1nk> !listr
[12:02:41] <WormDr1nk> !list
[12:03:44] <DeHackEd> doing things that you're told not to... why?
[12:06:04] <WormDr1nk> cos - attention and what not
[12:06:18] <DeHackEd> contrary to popular belief there is such thing as bad attention
[12:06:23] <WormDr1nk> ok I see torrent files are defined in http://www.bittorrent.org/beps/bep_0003.html
[12:06:30] <WormDr1nk> but where in spec for bencode
[12:07:03] <DeHackEd> it's in there
[12:11:45] <WormDr1nk> ah
[12:11:46] <WormDr1nk> I see
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[14:24:05] <tomreyn> hi, i'm trying to understand magnet links. specifically i'm trying to find out how and whether i can verify that a magnet link found on some website points to the same file i already have a copy of, without having to download from this magnet link.
[14:25:37] <K`Tetch_> why not just look at hte hash/
[14:25:40] <tomreyn> More specifically there is a copy of the FOSS game MegaGlest available on some bittorrent direcotries such as http://kat.ph/megaglest-installer-3-6-0-3-i386-win32-exe-t6606822.html - now I'd like to make sure this is not a trojaned copy but the one we originally released as a http download.
[14:26:33] <tomreyn> The hash there is 3200F351BD35DD9CC2751FCCBCDFA9B17D48567D - which looks like a sha1 hash, but i don't know what it was created on.
[14:26:54] <tomreyn> The magnet link on top of the page says: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3200F351BD35DD9CC2751FCCBCDFA9B17D48567D&dn=megaglest+installer+3+6+0+3+i386+win32+exe&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.istole.it%3A80%2Fannounce
[14:27:07] <K`Tetch_> if it's the exact same torrent, the hashes will match
[14:27:21] <tomreyn> i don't have a torrent file, i only have the .exe file
[14:27:36] <tomreyn> and hashes don't match if i do an shasum on the .exe
[14:28:04] <tomreyn> but i actually downloaded the file and ran GNU diff on both the downloaded file and th eoriginal copy and they are the same files
[14:28:06] <K`Tetch_> it won't, the torrent sha1 is based off the pieces created in the torrent iirc
[14:29:00] <tomreyn> so there's no way to calculate this hash from just the .exe file i have?
[14:29:40] <K`Tetch_> if the file is the same, then how can it be trojaned?
[14:30:05] <tomreyn> not in this case
[14:30:26] <K`Tetch_> so... then I think we've established what you wanted to know
[14:30:39] <tomreyn> no, not really, i'm afraid.
[14:30:43] <K`Tetch_> but theres no way i can think of, offhand, to check without downloading
[14:31:24] <tomreyn> my goal is to have a generic way which allows me to verify whether or not a file a magnet link points to is an exact copy of a file i already have available, without having to download the file from bittorrent
[14:31:38] <tomreyn> ok, thanks for your help
[14:31:51] <K`Tetch_> you can change the sha1 quite easily
[14:31:58] <K`Tetch_> change the piece size, add a file, etc
[14:32:27] <tomreyn> what's a "piece size"?
[14:32:48] <K`Tetch_> got a torrent client open with a torrent loaded in it?
[14:33:08] <tomreyn> now i do, it's "transmission"
[14:33:21] <K`Tetch_> hmm don't know my way around that so much
[14:33:28] <K`Tetch_> ok, lets see
[14:33:45] <K`Tetch_> take your game, and break it down into, say, 1mb pieces
[14:33:58] <K`Tetch_> each of these pieces are hten checksummed
[14:34:25] <K`Tetch_> when bittorrent recieves a full piece (made of 16kb chunks) it checks that piece against it's checksum
[14:34:36] <K`Tetch_> if it passes, it's saved, if not, it's rejected
[14:34:48] <tomreyn> oh you mean an archive with multiple volumes.
[14:34:49] <K`Tetch_> the pieces can be transfered non-sequentially
[14:34:55] <K`Tetch_> a bit like that, yes
[14:35:13] <tomreyn> but the pieces concept is actually part of the bittorrent protocol?
[14:35:19] <K`Tetch_> I think the inspiration was the multi-part rars and SFV files used on scene FTP's
[14:35:25] <K`Tetch_> it's the core of it
[14:35:37] <tomreyn> i see
[14:35:57] <K`Tetch_> you can download any piece, in any order
[14:36:14] <tomreyn> i think i've stumbled across this mechanism before
[14:36:15] <K`Tetch_> you can download the chunks in that piece from any number of peers
[14:37:09] <tomreyn> my client tells me the .exe file discussed earlier has 763 pieces  @ 256. KiB
[14:37:29] <K`Tetch_> right, so whoever made the torrent has it set to make 256kb pieces
[14:37:35] <K`Tetch_> still of 16kb chunks
[14:37:42] <tomreyn> ok
[14:38:03] <tomreyn> does this make sense for larger downloads?
[14:38:10] <tomreyn> so there is less protocol overhead?
[14:38:13] <K`Tetch_> if they had made it with 1mb pieces, there would be about 4x LESS pieces, but each would obviously be bigger
[14:38:32] <K`Tetch_> and the hash in the torrent file is per-piece
[14:38:38] <K`Tetch_> so for bigger torrents, you use bigger pieces
[14:38:55] <tomreyn> due to protocol overhead?
[14:39:04] <K`Tetch_> more pieces = bigger torrent file
[14:39:24] <tomreyn> okay, but you don't have a torrent file with magnet links, right?
[14:39:48] <tomreyn> you do have to transfer the meta data first, though, so i guess that's where the data gets transferred still
[14:40:21] <K`Tetch_> one of my first experimentations with clients was around 2004. I made two torrents of the same 6.4Gb of data. one used 128kb pieces, and the other used 16mb pieces. The 16mb piece .torrent came to 11kb. the 128kb piece .torrent came to 500+kb
[14:40:24] <tomreyn> "data" -> piece information and checksums
[14:40:48] <K`Tetch_> with a magnet, it just searches for peers through DHT and then pulls the torrent file from other peers
[14:43:51] <K`Tetch_> hope this has helped, I've been simplifying a bit, but there's plenty of technical specs available if you want more info
[14:43:57] <K`Tetch_> I'm just half-awake still
[14:59:59] <tomreyn> thanks K`Tetch_ , this was pretty helpful :)
[15:00:03] <tomreyn> have a nice day
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[15:52:44] <TheSHAD0W> tomreyn: Download the torrent, saving over a copy of the existing file.  If it quickly turns into a seed, it's identical.  If after downloading the metadata, it starts downloading at less than 100%, it isn't.  You can then shut it down.
[15:53:37] <TheSHAD0W> tl;dr: You don't have to dl the whole thing and then compare.
[15:54:49] <tomreyn> thanks, i think i got it. now i'd need to automate, thous, though, which is probably not fun.
[15:54:54] <tomreyn> *though
[15:58:04] <tomreyn> i guess the right apporach is for us to seed torrents ourselves and ask people not to use any others. it's just that it would have been nice if we could just have compared the checksums of torrents other people provide to our files to tell whether or not a torrent was 'authentic'.
[16:01:09] <TheSHAD0W> Given the actual torrent metadata, that can be done.  No one has written a tool AFAIK that just downloads metadata and creates torrent files unfortunately.
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   August 29, 2012  
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